1 2010-10-14 00:35:43 <necrodearia> This just in: bitbot coming soon to an Bitcoin IRC channel near you
  2 2010-10-14 00:39:54 <Xunie> And now for something completely different.
  3 2010-10-14 00:40:07 <Diablo-D3> dongs. dongs everywhere.
  4 2010-10-14 00:53:01 <necrodearia> yay for bitbot!
  5 2010-10-14 01:25:14 <doublec> ;estimate
  6 2010-10-14 01:25:15 <bitbot> doublec: LastDiff(1d 21:50:09 ago)  ExpBlocks(275)  ActualBlocks(319)  TrgNewDiffDate(2010/10/26 05:35:05 GMT)  EstNewDiffDate(2010/10/24 07:15:20 GMT)  EstNewDiff(1598.51318433)
  7 2010-10-14 01:25:40 <bitbot> doublec: Thank you kindly for your interest in donating. My Bitcoin Address is 1C8nEDn3H1PRw6vF3HSKyPjYwfxSJ8L5Yi
  8 2010-10-14 01:25:40 <doublec> ;bitbotdonate
  9 2010-10-14 01:27:35 <noagendamarket> wb bitbot
 10 2010-10-14 01:27:44 <doublec> yes, you were missed
 11 2010-10-14 01:31:30 <bitbot> Kiba: Mt. Gox: Last(0.095) High(0.105) Low(0.092) BestSellPrice(0.095) BestBuyPrice(0.1025) Volume(59729)
 12 2010-10-14 01:31:30 <Kiba> ;mtgox
 13 2010-10-14 01:31:38 <Kiba> wowzer
 14 2010-10-14 01:31:41 <Kiba> volume pretty high
 15 2010-10-14 01:31:50 <Kiba> for a market where you can't deposit dollars
 16 2010-10-14 01:32:29 <doublec> now that you can't withdraw there's nothing to do but speculate
 17 2010-10-14 01:33:00 <doublec> (withdraw USD anyway. I assume you can withdraw BC)
 18 2010-10-14 03:42:11 <nathan7> doublec: speculation time!
 19 2010-10-14 03:42:24 <nathan7> Let's start recession v2
 20 2010-10-14 06:35:00 <lfm> oh dear
 21 2010-10-14 07:41:00 <UukGoblin> any news from mt gox? :-]
 22 2010-10-14 07:42:02 <UukGoblin> I wonder why bcm doesn't get any trades, now when it's really the only option...
 23 2010-10-14 07:52:20 <doublec> bcm is closed for registrations
 24 2010-10-14 07:52:21 <doublec> iirc
 25 2010-10-14 07:52:39 <doublec> "No New Registration Until Further Notice" on the main page
 26 2010-10-14 07:52:47 <ArtForz> yup
 27 2010-10-14 07:53:26 <ArtForz> also a lot less speculation due to payment provider fees
 28 2010-10-14 07:53:41 <doublec> true
 29 2010-10-14 07:58:27 <UukGoblin> but plenty of people should already be registered
 30 2010-10-14 10:40:12 <LobsterMan> http://127.0.0.1:8888/freenet:USK@39kGka34PiqN2C-nDN9P4W6t7knd9~2SitUWjZkVk38,1iCFccyals0NrloZYyCvGeCgOYoUkFNR2ridyHkVSx0,AQACAAE/flickrboobs/140
 31 2010-10-14 10:40:13 <LobsterMan> oops
 32 2010-10-14 10:40:23 <LobsterMan> lol
 33 2010-10-14 10:41:19 <doublec> I've wondered if there was much of an intersection between freenet and bitcoin users
 34 2010-10-14 10:41:38 <LobsterMan> i've been a long time freenet user
 35 2010-10-14 10:41:45 <LobsterMan> well...almost 2 years
 36 2010-10-14 10:41:49 <LobsterMan> so not too long i guess
 37 2010-10-14 10:41:55 <ArtForz> about the same here
 38 2010-10-14 10:41:55 <doublec> I was an on and off user for a while
 39 2010-10-14 10:41:59 <UukGoblin> anything interesting there?
 40 2010-10-14 10:42:01 <LobsterMan> freenet is how i originally found bitcoin
 41 2010-10-14 10:42:07 <doublec> I've kept a node running for the last few months lately though
 42 2010-10-14 10:42:15 <LobsterMan> some interesting discussions
 43 2010-10-14 10:42:20 <LobsterMan> i like frost a lot
 44 2010-10-14 10:42:22 <doublec> LobsterMan, that's where I heard about it too
 45 2010-10-14 10:42:27 <doublec> except on FMS
 46 2010-10-14 10:42:46 <UukGoblin> frost is like a forum, right?
 47 2010-10-14 10:42:48 <LobsterMan> im banned from #freenet lol
 48 2010-10-14 10:42:52 <LobsterMan> yeah
 49 2010-10-14 10:42:54 <UukGoblin> lol why?
 50 2010-10-14 10:43:12 <LobsterMan> i used to upload tv shows and the head dev doesnt think that's legal so he banned me
 51 2010-10-14 10:43:13 <LobsterMan> :\n19045
 52 2010-10-14 10:43:28 <LobsterMan> :/
 53 2010-10-14 10:43:57 <UukGoblin> huh
 54 2010-10-14 10:44:02 <LobsterMan> lol nevermind
 55 2010-10-14 10:44:09 <UukGoblin> shouldn't have talked about it there ;-]
 56 2010-10-14 10:44:31 <UukGoblin> (I guess)
 57 2010-10-14 10:44:47 <LobsterMan> yeah i tried to obfuscate the keys i was uploading a bit when asking questions but i wasn't careful enough
 58 2010-10-14 10:45:00 <LobsterMan> someone used the key explorer and was like "hay this guy is uploading tb showze"
 59 2010-10-14 10:45:09 <LobsterMan> tv*
 60 2010-10-14 10:45:24 <LobsterMan> and toad_, the lead dev, was like "no" and banned me
 61 2010-10-14 10:45:26 <LobsterMan> lol
 62 2010-10-14 10:45:38 <ArtForz> stupid
 63 2010-10-14 10:46:29 <ArtForz> why ban someone from irc for possibly uploading warez to freenet?
 64 2010-10-14 10:47:27 <ArtForz> imo makes no sense
 65 2010-10-14 10:48:00 <LobsterMan> yeah lol
 66 2010-10-14 10:48:06 <doublec> toad made a comment in one of the freenet boards that because he works in public he can't be associated with illegal use of freenet
 67 2010-10-14 10:48:45 <doublec> so is public about downvoting people's  WoT on FMS, etc if they do that
 68 2010-10-14 10:49:14 <ArtForz> thats still fucking stupid
 69 2010-10-14 10:49:17 <doublec> at a guess it's probably because he receives donations from companies to work on it and they wouldn't want to be associated with illegal use
 70 2010-10-14 10:49:39 <doublec> of course one of the stated use cases for freenet is illegal usage in other countries
 71 2010-10-14 10:50:11 <doublec> so there's a bit of irony there
 72 2010-10-14 10:50:36 <LobsterMan> a lot of people use freenet for stuff that is illegal in large parts of the world
 73 2010-10-14 10:50:41 <ArtForz> yep
 74 2010-10-14 10:51:35 <Diablo-D3> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs137.snc4/37207_10150095660838098_669228097_7463796_8141402_n.jpg
 75 2010-10-14 10:51:50 <LobsterMan> lol...........
 76 2010-10-14 10:52:08 <LobsterMan> those angus snack wraps are just like a hamburger in a wrap instead of a bun
 77 2010-10-14 10:52:18 <Diablo-D3> [08:49:39] <doublec> of course one of the stated use cases for freenet is illegal usage in other countries
 78 2010-10-14 10:52:21 <Diablo-D3> well no
 79 2010-10-14 10:52:32 <Diablo-D3> its freedom usage in anti-freedom countries
 80 2010-10-14 10:52:48 <Netsniper> fredom falls victim to semantics
 81 2010-10-14 10:53:02 <LobsterMan> lol
 82 2010-10-14 10:53:06 <UukGoblin> regarding uploading tv shows, I lack a good application that could categorise and index them
 83 2010-10-14 10:53:13 <Diablo-D3> free speech is one of those global human rights thingies those UN guys keep writing strongly worded letters about
 84 2010-10-14 10:53:16 <LobsterMan> i think people in china and japan have gotten into trouble just for running a node
 85 2010-10-14 10:53:23 <doublec> I'm referring to "Freenet has been downloaded over 2 million times since the project started, and used for the distribution of censored information all over the world including countries such as China and the Middle East."
 86 2010-10-14 10:53:25 <Diablo-D3> in china? yes
 87 2010-10-14 10:53:25 <doublec> from the freenet page
 88 2010-10-14 10:53:29 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, china doesn't care ;-]
 89 2010-10-14 10:53:48 <LobsterMan> china does
 90 2010-10-14 10:53:54 <ArtForz> isn't freenet also in a legal gray area in france?
 91 2010-10-14 10:53:55 <LobsterMan> they dont want people to think that they do
 92 2010-10-14 10:53:56 <doublec> I'm assuming the distribution of censored iformation is illegal in those countries. hence my comment.
 93 2010-10-14 10:53:58 <LobsterMan> but they very much do
 94 2010-10-14 10:53:59 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: freenet has copies of cnn coverage of the nobel prize committee announcing who won it
 95 2010-10-14 10:54:11 <Diablo-D3> ergo, china is ultrapissed
 96 2010-10-14 10:54:24 <UukGoblin> china doesn't care about UN guys' letters
 97 2010-10-14 10:54:31 <Diablo-D3> of course they dont
 98 2010-10-14 10:54:46 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt mean we cant export democracy (tm) to their country
 99 2010-10-14 10:55:01 <Diablo-D3> the freedom is on back-order, the bombs are not.
100 2010-10-14 10:55:20 <Netsniper> trotskyism
101 2010-10-14 10:58:12 <UukGoblin> how could they frame someone for running a node?
102 2010-10-14 10:58:24 <UukGoblin> are they simply disallowing all encrypted traffic?
103 2010-10-14 10:58:28 <ArtForz> yep
104 2010-10-14 10:58:45 <UukGoblin> REALLY?
105 2010-10-14 10:58:47 <LobsterMan> china is?
106 2010-10-14 10:58:56 <LobsterMan> i didn't know that :O
107 2010-10-14 10:58:57 <UukGoblin> fuck, that's bad.
108 2010-10-14 10:59:13 <UukGoblin> so what, is ssh illegal?
109 2010-10-14 10:59:18 <bonsaikitten> no
110 2010-10-14 10:59:19 <MacRohard> meh. it's impossible to disallow encrypted traffic
111 2010-10-14 10:59:22 <Diablo-D3> by itself it isnt
112 2010-10-14 10:59:28 <bonsaikitten> but you may get a visit from nice people that wish to discuss with you
113 2010-10-14 10:59:33 <Diablo-D3> but if its used to "commit" a crime
114 2010-10-14 10:59:36 <Diablo-D3> its extra time
115 2010-10-14 10:59:37 <MacRohard> just means you need to hide it inside whatever traffic is allowed
116 2010-10-14 11:00:00 <MacRohard> Diablo-D3, isn't there something like that in the US too?
117 2010-10-14 11:00:06 <Diablo-D3> so if they want to frame you for speaking out against the government, they'll just use encrypted traffic as evidence
118 2010-10-14 11:00:08 <Diablo-D3> MacRohard: nope
119 2010-10-14 11:00:15 <MacRohard> hmm i'm not sure abotu that
120 2010-10-14 11:00:31 <LobsterMan> MacRohard what do you mean?
121 2010-10-14 11:00:35 <Diablo-D3> they cannot compel you to violate your constitutional rights
122 2010-10-14 11:00:46 <Diablo-D3> nor can they hold it against you that you recognize that you have rights
123 2010-10-14 11:00:46 <MacRohard> it sounds like how if you do fraud over the wire then it's wire fraud
124 2010-10-14 11:01:02 <Diablo-D3> MacRohard: yes, but in the US, they have to PROVE what was in the encrypted connection
125 2010-10-14 11:01:03 <MacRohard> i'm sure they can somehow
126 2010-10-14 11:01:08 <Diablo-D3> but they dont really have to
127 2010-10-14 11:01:11 <Diablo-D3> you connect to a bank
128 2010-10-14 11:01:16 <Diablo-D3> they just ask the bank
129 2010-10-14 11:01:52 <Diablo-D3> and generally, in the modern economy, all fraud of that kind is wire fraud automatically
130 2010-10-14 11:02:06 <MacRohard> right
131 2010-10-14 11:02:10 <UukGoblin> there was a case in uk or something (The Ripper?) where a guy was framed for not giving his password to an encrypted disk
132 2010-10-14 11:02:19 <Diablo-D3> anything involving wire transfers, credit cards, paypals, even sliding a card through an atm machine or POS
133 2010-10-14 11:02:22 <Diablo-D3> its automatic wire fraud
134 2010-10-14 11:02:25 <LobsterMan> if you want to strictly interpret us law, rickrolling someone is a form of wire fraud
135 2010-10-14 11:02:47 <MacRohard> in the uk if you refuse to turn over your encryption key it's an automatic 2 year jail term
136 2010-10-14 11:03:00 <ArtForz> up to 2 years
137 2010-10-14 11:03:04 <Diablo-D3> you have to be using cash (->conspiracy to make counterfeit money), or checks/money orders/etc(->fraud, but I forget the name of it) to get out of wire fraud
138 2010-10-14 11:03:07 <MacRohard> ArtForz, ok
139 2010-10-14 11:03:14 <Diablo-D3> MacRohard: yes, because you have no rights in the UK
140 2010-10-14 11:03:19 <ArtForz> unless you *prove* you don't actually have the key
141 2010-10-14 11:03:45 <Diablo-D3> in the US, we have rights
142 2010-10-14 11:03:48 <MacRohard> Diablo-D3, rights don't really exist..
143 2010-10-14 11:03:55 <Diablo-D3> we cannot be compelled to incriminate ourselves
144 2010-10-14 11:04:16 <MacRohard> yea but there's so many ways to nail you they will find one anyway
145 2010-10-14 11:04:44 <Diablo-D3> well, they cant "nail" you
146 2010-10-14 11:04:48 <Diablo-D3> unless your lawyer is a disphit
147 2010-10-14 11:04:51 <ArtForz> afair in the US it's still possible to get jailed for not providing a password
148 2010-10-14 11:04:56 <MacRohard> all the 'rights' may do is influence the way they frame the nailing
149 2010-10-14 11:04:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: nope.
150 2010-10-14 11:04:59 <ArtForz> yes
151 2010-10-14 11:05:08 <Diablo-D3> you're thinking of a completely unrelated case
152 2010-10-14 11:05:11 <ArtForz> nope
153 2010-10-14 11:05:30 <Diablo-D3> the one about the sysadmin who wouldnt hand over the password to everything only to the mayor
154 2010-10-14 11:05:35 <Diablo-D3> not his immediate boss
155 2010-10-14 11:05:38 <ArtForz> no, not that one
156 2010-10-14 11:05:49 <Diablo-D3> then somebody had a bad lawyer, and the judge should be disbarred
157 2010-10-14 11:05:56 <Diablo-D3> you CANNOT be compelled to incriminate yourself, period
158 2010-10-14 11:06:01 <Diablo-D3> period
159 2010-10-14 11:06:02 <ArtForz> easy
160 2010-10-14 11:06:13 <ArtForz> password != encrypted data
161 2010-10-14 11:06:26 <Diablo-D3> no more than I have to give the combination to a lock to a safe
162 2010-10-14 11:06:27 <MacRohard> if they can't find anythin they'll suddenly discover that you're a paedophile or maybe you'll just end up blowing your brains out with three shots from the back
163 2010-10-14 11:06:40 <ArtForz> I can't find the case right now
164 2010-10-14 11:06:41 <Diablo-D3> no more than I gave to give up a key to a lock to a locl box
165 2010-10-14 11:06:58 <Diablo-D3> they can TRY to do it
166 2010-10-14 11:07:11 <UukGoblin> can always use steganography
167 2010-10-14 11:07:17 <Diablo-D3> and then I'll ruin their tiny little insignificant lives by just merely whispering to the media
168 2010-10-14 11:07:29 <UukGoblin> and /give/ them /a/ password
169 2010-10-14 11:07:37 <UukGoblin> and they'll have no way of proving it's /the/ password
170 2010-10-14 11:07:58 <ArtForz> uukgoblin: or just use nested truecrypt containers ;)
171 2010-10-14 11:08:32 <ArtForz> plausible deniability is fun
172 2010-10-14 11:08:48 <Diablo-D3> I think Linux installs should automatically encrypt things
173 2010-10-14 11:08:52 <Diablo-D3> just to bone law enforcement
174 2010-10-14 11:09:02 <ArtForz> damn, where was that stupid case
175 2010-10-14 11:09:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, whatever it is, if the guy isnt appealing it, he should be shot
176 2010-10-14 11:09:25 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, nah, it is a computational overhead. User should always have choice.
177 2010-10-14 11:09:33 <Diablo-D3> if someone is violating HIS constitutional rights, they're violating MINE too
178 2010-10-14 11:10:08 <UukGoblin> constitutional rights are a laugh
179 2010-10-14 11:10:18 <UukGoblin> they're given and taken away in the same constitution
180 2010-10-14 11:10:24 <Diablo-D3> this country either follows the constitution, or its pure anarchy in the streets
181 2010-10-14 11:10:40 <jrabbit> lol.
182 2010-10-14 11:10:41 <ArtForz> diablo: yes, imo that judges decision is ot backed by law
183 2010-10-14 11:11:02 <Netsniper> face it, in pretty much any country the average citizen commits 3-4 jailable offences every day
184 2010-10-14 11:11:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: its not a real law if its in violation of the constitution
185 2010-10-14 11:11:05 <Netsniper> fact of life
186 2010-10-14 11:11:18 <Diablo-D3> Netsniper: yes, because those 3-4 laws may not actually be valid in the first place
187 2010-10-14 11:11:47 <Diablo-D3> the american people need to stand up and enforce the law, instead of let these known terrorists run the show
188 2010-10-14 11:12:18 <Netsniper> i'm not sure about other countries, but I consider the US constitution invalid
189 2010-10-14 11:12:37 <Diablo-D3> Netsniper: its the closest thing to perfect
190 2010-10-14 11:12:58 <UukGoblin> Netsniper, example? (of the jailable offences comitted?)
191 2010-10-14 11:13:07 <RazielZ> Piracy! omnomnom
192 2010-10-14 11:13:08 <Netsniper> there's no such thing as a contract binding in perpetuity to non-signers
193 2010-10-14 11:13:27 <Diablo-D3> then the US ended the moment the last founding father died.
194 2010-10-14 11:13:31 <UukGoblin> RazielZ, average citizens don't pirate stuff I imagine.. they're too scared of viruses
195 2010-10-14 11:13:50 <Diablo-D3> which means it is fully within my rights to burn down the whole country, according to you
196 2010-10-14 11:13:51 <RazielZ> Oh right, I forgot that the average citizen is an idiot for a moment there, sorry, carry on
197 2010-10-14 11:14:00 <ArtForz> afair it was smth like judge declares password!=data, state attorney gives immunity for any crime the password itself would incriminate the accused for, accused still keeps his mouth shut, judge jails him for contempt of court
198 2010-10-14 11:14:15 <Netsniper> i have granted no such authorization
199 2010-10-14 11:14:35 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: that sounds rather bullshit, because due to the whole immunity, he simply DOESNT have to give the password up, period.
200 2010-10-14 11:14:42 <Diablo-D3> because they cannot use anything in it
201 2010-10-14 11:14:54 <Diablo-D3> it sounds like a judge was going on a power trip
202 2010-10-14 11:14:57 <Diablo-D3> and he should be disbarred for it
203 2010-10-14 11:15:02 <ArtForz> yeah, imo it's bullshit
204 2010-10-14 11:15:05 <Diablo-D3> he doesnt represent the law in any meaningful way
205 2010-10-14 11:15:17 <Diablo-D3> and it also means it has nothing to do with passwords or encryption
206 2010-10-14 11:15:22 <Diablo-D3> the judge was just power tripping
207 2010-10-14 11:16:03 <UukGoblin> btw, after "Do you swear to tell the truth, only truth, yadda yadda", can you say "no"?
208 2010-10-14 11:16:16 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: yes
209 2010-10-14 11:16:22 <Diablo-D3> which means you cannot testify
210 2010-10-14 11:16:49 <UukGoblin> cool.
211 2010-10-14 11:16:51 <Diablo-D3> saying yes does not prohibit you from lying, however
212 2010-10-14 11:17:07 <UukGoblin> even cooler
213 2010-10-14 11:17:16 <ArtForz> and for the UK law, how the fuck can someone *prove* he *doesn't* know a password?
214 2010-10-14 11:17:24 <Netsniper> but then they do a Martha Stewart on you and get you for perjury
215 2010-10-14 11:17:28 <ArtForz> it's completely batshit insane
216 2010-10-14 11:17:45 <UukGoblin> impossible, imho
217 2010-10-14 11:17:50 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: there is hardware that stores passwords in the hardware in such a way that removing the drives forever loses the password
218 2010-10-14 11:17:56 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: enterprise controllers sometimes offer this
219 2010-10-14 11:18:09 <Diablo-D3> so no one can, say, take the drives and then try to crack them
220 2010-10-14 11:18:16 <ArtForz> yep
221 2010-10-14 11:18:23 <Diablo-D3> laptops also ofter similar stuff
222 2010-10-14 11:19:08 <Diablo-D3> so its quite entirely possible to own a device that encrypts that you dont know the password to
223 2010-10-14 11:19:18 <Netsniper> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html
224 2010-10-14 11:19:28 <UukGoblin> well yeah
225 2010-10-14 11:19:31 <UukGoblin> it's a trade-off
226 2010-10-14 11:19:44 <UukGoblin> if you're happy to lose your data
227 2010-10-14 11:19:50 <UukGoblin> it's easier to prove
228 2010-10-14 11:20:04 <Diablo-D3> well, its the entire point
229 2010-10-14 11:20:13 <ArtForz> well, imo there's even simpler plausible excuses
230 2010-10-14 11:20:20 <Diablo-D3> stuff like this also makes it easy to comply with federal law
231 2010-10-14 11:20:28 <Diablo-D3> they cant, say, go fuck with a stock broker
232 2010-10-14 11:20:35 <Diablo-D3> since they're required to be paranoid++
233 2010-10-14 11:20:55 <UukGoblin> I don't like losing my data
234 2010-10-14 11:21:02 <Diablo-D3> "GIVE PASSWORD" "Can't, you told me not to." "GIVE PASSWORD" "Sorry, I don't want to go to jail or get sued."
235 2010-10-14 11:21:20 <ArtForz> "password was written down on a post-it on the monitor, no clue where it went"
236 2010-10-14 11:22:18 <UukGoblin> "my system had 3 years uptime before you seized it, totally forgotten what I came up with when I initially set it up... something with apples, I think... try @pp13"
237 2010-10-14 11:22:26 <ArtForz> yep
238 2010-10-14 11:23:03 <ArtForz> I actually managed to forget the password for /home on one of my boxes once
239 2010-10-14 11:23:09 <UukGoblin> :->
240 2010-10-14 11:24:21 <LobsterMan> i've forgotten my login password before
241 2010-10-14 11:24:29 <LobsterMan> always makes me feel dum
242 2010-10-14 11:28:41 <ArtForz> wow, the default WPA password on samsung 3200 wlan routers is completely insecure
243 2010-10-14 11:28:51 <RazielZ> is it 123456?
244 2010-10-14 11:28:59 <Diablo-D3> hey, thats the combination to my luggage!
245 2010-10-14 11:29:03 <RazielZ> <.<
246 2010-10-14 11:29:10 <ArtForz> default WPA password = last 4 octets of MAC addr in uppercase hex
247 2010-10-14 11:29:30 <RazielZ> sucks
248 2010-10-14 11:29:33 <RazielZ> use your name instead
249 2010-10-14 11:29:55 <LobsterMan> best bet is don't use wireless :3
250 2010-10-14 11:30:01 <LobsterMan> at least not at your home
251 2010-10-14 11:30:28 <RazielZ> yeah having wires that make doors unable to e closed and that make people trip and rbeak their necks is so much better
252 2010-10-14 11:30:41 <LobsterMan> lol
253 2010-10-14 11:31:05 <bd_> ArtForz: please tell me that it's the WAN-side MAC address at least
254 2010-10-14 11:31:56 <UukGoblin> wifi is fine, as long as it's secure
255 2010-10-14 11:32:12 <UukGoblin> problem is, you can't have it both secure and free at the same time
256 2010-10-14 11:32:30 <UukGoblin> as in, with 1 AP, you can't have both a WPA and unencrypted network, which sucks imho
257 2010-10-14 11:33:00 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: actually you can depending on the hardware
258 2010-10-14 11:34:06 <bitbot> New news from bitcoinsvn: gavinandresen committed revision 167 to the Bitcoin SVN repository, changing 1 files
259 2010-10-14 11:34:44 <UukGoblin> oh, gavin got svn access, cool
260 2010-10-14 11:35:05 <UukGoblin> bitbot, let us know when mt gox gets a payment provider
261 2010-10-14 11:37:52 <LobsterMan> <_<
262 2010-10-14 11:40:04 <ArtForz> well, the problem is a vast majority of people never change the default WPA password
263 2010-10-14 11:40:44 <ArtForz> uukgoblin: my "AP" can do that
264 2010-10-14 11:41:40 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, cool, how?
265 2010-10-14 11:41:44 <UukGoblin> what AP is that?
266 2010-10-14 11:41:51 <ArtForz> it's a embedded x86 box running BSD
267 2010-10-14 11:42:26 <ArtForz> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d0.htm
268 2010-10-14 11:42:37 <UukGoblin> IPsec should be more stable and secure that all the WPA inventions
269 2010-10-14 11:43:19 <UukGoblin> sweet
270 2010-10-14 11:44:00 <ArtForz> that one is truly for embedded boxes
271 2010-10-14 11:44:34 <ArtForz> they also have stuff like this: http://www.pcengines.ch/alix1d.htm
272 2010-10-14 11:45:54 <ArtForz> that one is pretty nice if a epia board is still overkill for whatever you want to do ;)
273 2010-10-14 11:46:31 <UukGoblin> they don't have any heatsinks over the main CPU?
274 2010-10-14 11:46:36 <ArtForz> nope
275 2010-10-14 11:46:53 <UukGoblin> ... how...
276 2010-10-14 11:46:59 <ArtForz> it's a 433 MHz Geode LX
277 2010-10-14 11:47:06 <Teppy> Any news on the markets' problems?
278 2010-10-14 11:47:25 <ArtForz> CPU is <1W afair
279 2010-10-14 11:47:43 <UukGoblin> that's... efficient... how many khash does it do? ;-]
280 2010-10-14 11:48:36 <ArtForz> whole board is ~5W with 2 active ethernet interfaces and a miniPCI wlan card
281 2010-10-14 11:49:34 <UukGoblin> kinda like my mobile
282 2010-10-14 11:49:44 <UukGoblin> (except for ethernet)
283 2010-10-14 11:56:37 <nathan7> la la la
284 2010-10-14 12:07:36 <Diablo-D3> so
285 2010-10-14 12:07:45 <Diablo-D3> hows the thing with mtgox going?
286 2010-10-14 12:16:00 <UukGoblin> everyone's asking that :-]
287 2010-10-14 12:16:07 <Diablo-D3> lol
288 2010-10-14 12:16:15 <UukGoblin> did he get his money off paypal at all?
289 2010-10-14 12:16:24 <UukGoblin> or is everyone's balance b0rk3d?
290 2010-10-14 12:16:42 <Diablo-D3> they cant hold it forever
291 2010-10-14 12:17:08 <UukGoblin> oh, I think they can ;-]
292 2010-10-14 12:17:14 <Diablo-D3> well no
293 2010-10-14 12:17:15 <Diablo-D3> they cant
294 2010-10-14 12:17:25 <Diablo-D3> they have to either release it to him, or release it to the guy who sent it
295 2010-10-14 12:18:01 <UukGoblin> someone here said their T&Cs stated they can take all you money, if they feel like it
296 2010-10-14 12:18:07 <UukGoblin> your*
297 2010-10-14 12:18:24 <nanotube> just read the forum thread
298 2010-10-14 12:18:33 <nanotube> mtgox said that most of the money is in his bank account, rather than paypal balance
299 2010-10-14 12:18:41 <UukGoblin> cool
300 2010-10-14 12:18:47 <nanotube> so the main problem is not 'getting the money back' because there's relatively little stuck in paypal itself
301 2010-10-14 12:18:54 <nanotube> but rather finding an alternative USD payment processor
302 2010-10-14 12:18:54 <UukGoblin> good
303 2010-10-14 12:19:06 <nanotube> latest news from mtg on that thread, paste coming up:
304 2010-10-14 12:19:10 <UukGoblin> there's Liberty Reserve and Moneybookers and stuff?
305 2010-10-14 12:19:12 <nanotube> Sorry this is taking longer than I thought. All these payment processors have issues. It is actually very hard to find a good one. (All the more reason bitcoin needs to get widely adopted).
306 2010-10-14 12:19:20 <nanotube> mtgox said that --^ :
307 2010-10-14 12:19:21 <nanotube> )
308 2010-10-14 12:19:45 <nanotube> UukGoblin: yes, for the future. but for the moment - people put in 'real usd' they need to be able to get real usd out to their bank accounts
309 2010-10-14 12:19:57 <nanotube> mtg can't come back and say ok, you can get your usd out, but only as libertyreserve
310 2010-10-14 12:20:02 <UukGoblin> is LR or MB not real?
311 2010-10-14 12:20:09 <nanotube> no, not real. :)
312 2010-10-14 12:20:14 <UukGoblin> oh.
313 2010-10-14 12:20:21 <nanotube> in order to get LRUSD out to your bank account, you have to 'exchange it' for normal usd
314 2010-10-14 12:20:37 <nanotube> most exchangers use bank wires for that
315 2010-10-14 12:20:46 <nanotube> which have associated with them a 20-50 dollar wire fee
316 2010-10-14 12:20:51 <UukGoblin> oh.
317 2010-10-14 12:20:59 <UukGoblin> quite a lot
318 2010-10-14 12:21:00 <nanotube> so getting smaller amounts out is a non-starter
319 2010-10-14 12:21:01 <nanotube> yes
320 2010-10-14 12:21:27 <nanotube> there's exchangezone where you can trade LR for paypal, and there you could get away with a 2-5% fee... better, but still clearly LR is not equivalent to 'normal USD'
321 2010-10-14 12:21:42 <UukGoblin> mhm
322 2010-10-14 12:22:00 <UukGoblin> so what's the point of LR in the first place?
323 2010-10-14 12:22:03 <nanotube> all that's about LR - i haven't used MB at all, so don't know if the picture looks any different
324 2010-10-14 12:22:04 <UukGoblin> anonymization of payments?
325 2010-10-14 12:22:19 <nanotube> well, the points of LR are several
326 2010-10-14 12:22:24 <nanotube> one, is as you say - payment anonymization
327 2010-10-14 12:22:35 <nanotube> two - it's a non-reversible method of payment, so no chargebacks
328 2010-10-14 12:22:53 <nanotube> three - the transfer fees are only (only! :) ) 1% up to $3
329 2010-10-14 12:22:53 <UukGoblin> right
330 2010-10-14 12:23:05 <nanotube> so much cheaper than paypal and credit cards and other things
331 2010-10-14 12:23:42 <UukGoblin> bitcoin really is cool in that regard
332 2010-10-14 12:23:53 <nanotube> of course, bitcoin has all these advantages as well... :) but due to the limited breadth of bitcoin acceptance, at the end of the day, it is rather a requirement to be able to convert to a more 'usual' currency
333 2010-10-14 12:23:56 <nanotube> yes :)
334 2010-10-14 13:25:52 <nanotube> whoa, some crazy trades coming from mtgox....
335 2010-10-14 13:26:45 <MacRohard> i notice pp seems to have dried up on BCM
336 2010-10-14 13:27:01 <MacRohard> noone wants to use it anymore?
337 2010-10-14 13:28:02 <MacRohard> heh. 0.03
338 2010-10-14 13:29:53 <yebyen> is something wonky in mtgox today?
339 2010-10-14 13:29:59 <yebyen> first it bought instead of selling
340 2010-10-14 13:30:03 <yebyen> and now it tells me -3 balance
341 2010-10-14 13:32:02 <Sirius_> yebyen: and $0.9000 highest bid o_O
342 2010-10-14 13:35:06 <MacRohard> haha damn
343 2010-10-14 13:35:12 <MacRohard> i'd be rich!
344 2010-10-14 13:35:18 <UukGoblin> yebyen, refresh
345 2010-10-14 13:35:27 <UukGoblin> ohai Sirius_ :-]
346 2010-10-14 13:35:39 <UukGoblin> is the exchange doing well?
347 2010-10-14 13:35:42 <Sirius_> hi
348 2010-10-14 13:35:44 <UukGoblin> well done for not choosing paypal ;-)
349 2010-10-14 13:36:28 <Sirius_> well yeah, there's been more trading lately
350 2010-10-14 13:37:03 <yebyen> yeah it's not fixed itself
351 2010-10-14 13:37:21 <yebyen> i'll send a screen later if i don't see it fix itself
352 2010-10-14 13:37:24 <yebyen> at work
353 2010-10-14 13:37:28 <UukGoblin> the only thing I don't like in exchange is the time it takes to process the payments :-/
354 2010-10-14 13:38:10 <Sirius_> yeah, bank transfers take a few days and need to be confirmed
355 2010-10-14 13:38:12 <Sirius_> manually
356 2010-10-14 13:38:27 <Sirius_> a bank api would be cool
357 2010-10-14 13:38:39 <MacRohard> they exist
358 2010-10-14 13:38:53 <MacRohard> maybe just get a SWIFT connection
359 2010-10-14 13:39:52 <Sirius_> I think my bank had some ancient api with high fees, but I'll re-check that...
360 2010-10-14 13:40:20 <MacRohard> i don't really know but i think swift would work with most accounts
361 2010-10-14 13:41:45 <Sirius_> you mean, getting an own bic number? :)
362 2010-10-14 13:43:34 <MacRohard> no you'd just use your banks i guess
363 2010-10-14 13:49:40 <Sirius_> cool, they have a new bank api
364 2010-10-14 13:50:00 <Sirius_> https://www.op.fi/media/liitteet?cid=151240134&srcpl=4 example message starting from page 12
365 2010-10-14 13:50:50 <MacRohard> cool
366 2010-10-14 13:53:33 <Xunie> Does anyone here speak either French, German, Italian, Russian, Spanish and Swedish? Or any combination of said languages?
367 2010-10-14 13:53:50 <Xunie> I need someone to translate this: If you have version 0.3.9 or lower, you need to upgrade for an important security update!
368 2010-10-14 13:54:02 <sandos> I speak swedish
369 2010-10-14 13:54:08 <Xunie> And I don't want to look stupid and use a translator that will translate it that way.
370 2010-10-14 13:54:45 <sandos> That would translate to "Om du har version 0.3.9 eller l??gre, s?? m??ste du uppgradera p?? grund av en viktigt s??kerhetsuppdatering"
371 2010-10-14 13:54:52 <sandos> oops
372 2010-10-14 13:54:58 <sandos> That would translate to "Om du har version 0.3.9 eller l??gre, s?? m??ste du uppgradera p?? grund av en viktig s??kerhetsuppdatering"
373 2010-10-14 13:56:11 <Xunie> sandos, thanks.
374 2010-10-14 13:56:15 <sandos> youre welcome
375 2010-10-14 13:57:20 <Xunie> sandos, I can put an exclamation mark on that, right?
376 2010-10-14 13:57:29 <sandos> yes =)
377 2010-10-14 14:00:11 <MacRohard> Si vous avez la version 0.3.9 ou inf??rieur vous devez mise ?? niveau pour une correction de s??curit?? importante!
378 2010-10-14 14:00:28 <Xunie> Thanks MacRohard.
379 2010-10-14 14:02:28 <Xunie> Oh, Chinese (Traditional/Simplified Han) speakers I need too!
380 2010-10-14 14:11:27 <LobsterMan> if i'm running an old machine that's only doing 750khash/sec or so, is it possible that it might never actually generate a block?
381 2010-10-14 14:14:32 <Xunie> Well, I'm peaking at 7500 khash/sec.
382 2010-10-14 14:14:43 <Xunie> Say I leave my machine running for 10 years.
383 2010-10-14 14:15:11 <Xunie> And say I generate on average 2 blocks per week.
384 2010-10-14 14:16:17 <ArtForz> actually the whole network might never generate another block (for limited values of never)
385 2010-10-14 14:16:19 <Xunie> I would generate 1040 blocks in those ten years.
386 2010-10-14 14:16:39 <Xunie> You would generate 104 blocks, because you run at 10% of the speed I run at.
387 2010-10-14 14:16:44 <ArtForz> it's just really really unlikely to happen
388 2010-10-14 14:18:48 <Xunie> LobsterMan, for every hash your PC generates, it has a certain chance of generating a block.
389 2010-10-14 14:19:15 <Xunie> Now that chance is very small, and since it's very small, it takes alot of hashes.
390 2010-10-14 14:19:34 <LobsterMan> so it *should* eventually make one?
391 2010-10-14 14:20:02 <ArtForz> well, let's see... at 750khash/s and current difficulty 50% chance is ~63.3 days, so the likelyhood of that machine finding no block in 10 years is about 0.5 ** (365.25 * 10 / 63.3)
392 2010-10-14 14:23:20 <ArtForz> which should be somewhere around 1 in 234 quadrillion
393 2010-10-14 14:24:46 <ArtForz> of course thats assuming difficulty doesn't keep increasing
394 2010-10-14 14:24:46 <nathan7> O.o
395 2010-10-14 14:27:13 <ArtForz> btw, chance of whole network not finding another block for 24h is about 1 in 10M
396 2010-10-14 14:32:06 <UukGoblin> huh btc go for $0.1 on mt gox :-]
397 2010-10-14 14:49:46 <nanotube> hmm several trades at 0.9 at mtg.... wonder what the hell is up with that
398 2010-10-14 14:50:24 <UukGoblin> what do you mean?
399 2010-10-14 14:50:52 <UukGoblin> it is actually weird, with a fixed amount of USD and increasing amount of BTC the price should go down
400 2010-10-14 14:51:01 <UukGoblin> but what do I know about economy...
401 2010-10-14 14:51:49 <UukGoblin> ooh 0.9
402 2010-10-14 14:52:12 <UukGoblin> true
403 2010-10-14 14:52:19 <UukGoblin> it was just some minuscule amounts though
404 2010-10-14 14:52:35 <sandos> someone trying to artificially up the price?
405 2010-10-14 14:53:24 <sandos> I know my bank will not even allow me to put orders in for amounts that deviate too much from a stocks current price. Or something like that. Or rather, they said it pended review due to concerns about it.
406 2010-10-14 14:54:03 <UukGoblin> well glad we're not banks ;-]
407 2010-10-14 14:55:43 <sandos> :)
408 2010-10-14 14:58:36 <UukGoblin> on the other hand, the bloody bastards could hurry up generating blocks.
409 2010-10-14 15:03:10 <UukGoblin> ;blocks
410 2010-10-14 15:03:15 <bitbot> UukGoblin: CurrentBlockCount( 85,103 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 1,378.0286071800 ) NextDifficultyAt( 86,688 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 1,585 blocks )
411 2010-10-14 15:03:42 <UukGoblin> ;estimate
412 2010-10-14 15:03:44 <bitbot> UukGoblin: LastDiff(2d 11:28:37 ago)  ExpBlocks(356)  ActualBlocks(431)  TrgNewDiffDate(2010/10/26 05:35:05 GMT)  EstNewDiffDate(2010/10/23 19:47:16 GMT)  EstNewDiff(1668.34362274)
413 2010-10-14 15:04:01 <MartinW> Hey, bitbot's back. :-D
414 2010-10-14 15:04:02 <MartinW> ;mtgox
415 2010-10-14 15:04:03 <bitbot> MartinW: Mt. Gox: Last(0.1) High(0.9) Low(0.065) BestSellPrice(0.1) BestBuyPrice(0.103) Volume(39734)
416 2010-10-14 15:04:04 <UukGoblin> yay
417 2010-10-14 15:06:51 <jgarzik> sandos: really?  Schwab will permit all sorts of crazy prices for stocks
418 2010-10-14 15:07:11 <jgarzik> I can put in an order limit for $0.01 per share on something super-expensive like BRK.A
419 2010-10-14 15:07:24 <UukGoblin> hmm
420 2010-10-14 15:07:30 <UukGoblin> my node shows 85104 blocks for a while now
421 2010-10-14 15:07:33 <UukGoblin> ;blocks
422 2010-10-14 15:07:35 <bitbot> UukGoblin: CurrentBlockCount( 85,103 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 1,378.0286071800 ) NextDifficultyAt( 86,688 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 1,585 blocks )
423 2010-10-14 15:07:57 <UukGoblin> should I upgrade from 0.3.10?
424 2010-10-14 15:08:15 <jgarzik> UukGoblin: ? 85103 is latest.
425 2010-10-14 15:08:29 <UukGoblin> my node shows 85104
426 2010-10-14 15:08:39 <UukGoblin> it's a 310 node
427 2010-10-14 15:08:51 <UukGoblin> and it's been showing that for a few minutes already
428 2010-10-14 15:09:11 <jgarzik> UukGoblin: they adjusted the block count to show height in later versions, IIRC.  I wouldn't worry about it, you have what the rest of the network has.
429 2010-10-14 15:09:27 <jgarzik> UukGoblin: it's a good idea to upgrade to 0.3.13 for transaction integrity, though.  no more viral tx's.
430 2010-10-14 15:09:47 <jgarzik> otherwise it's just a display issue
431 2010-10-14 15:09:47 <UukGoblin> 'height'?
432 2010-10-14 15:10:54 <jgarzik> UukGoblin: height == length of block chain.  "block count" is simply the height of the current longest block chain known to the client.  it used to show number of blocks in the chain, but was changed to show the block number (== count-1) of the highest block.
433 2010-10-14 15:11:18 <UukGoblin> oh, I see
434 2010-10-14 15:11:41 <UukGoblin> was it just to annoy me?
435 2010-10-14 15:12:17 <lfm> yup, just you
436 2010-10-14 15:14:46 <lfm> ;nr
437 2010-10-14 15:14:47 <bitbot> lfm: CurrentBlockCount( 85,104 blocks ) CurrentDifficulty( 1,378.0286071800 ) NextDifficultyAt( 86,688 blocks ) NextDifficultyIn( 1,584 blocks )
438 2010-10-14 15:15:08 <jgarzik> it appears gavin has some level of SVN commit status
439 2010-10-14 15:15:11 <jgarzik> which is a good thing
440 2010-10-14 15:15:35 <jgarzik> for an open source project, bitcoin development sure is a closed, walled garden
441 2010-10-14 15:15:35 <sandos> did difficulty recently "rally" ? I remember it was at 300 or so. Whats the normal ratio between difficulties?
442 2010-10-14 15:15:44 <lfm> has he applied any patches yet?
443 2010-10-14 15:16:46 <UukGoblin> he did make the last commit
444 2010-10-14 15:17:00 <UukGoblin> sandos, 300 was a while ago
445 2010-10-14 15:17:05 <UukGoblin> quite a big a while
446 2010-10-14 15:17:09 <lfm> it was 352.161 from 2010-08-05 19:46:35 till  2010-08-15 11:11:11
447 2010-10-14 15:17:10 <sandos> hmm ok
448 2010-10-14 15:17:14 <sandos> I guess I misremember =)
449 2010-10-14 15:17:17 <jgarzik> lfm: HTTPS for JSON-RPC
450 2010-10-14 15:17:30 <lfm> cool
451 2010-10-14 15:17:34 <yebyen> damn
452 2010-10-14 15:17:47 <yebyen> ok
453 2010-10-14 15:17:52 <yebyen> i guess i'm buying bitcoins for 0.9 now
454 2010-10-14 15:18:04 <yebyen> i don't remember filling out the form that way
455 2010-10-14 15:18:12 <UukGoblin> :-]
456 2010-10-14 15:19:03 <yebyen> booogus :(
457 2010-10-14 15:19:08 <jgarzik> yebyen: LRUSD is around 0.08, if you can find a decent exchanger like exchangezone.com
458 2010-10-14 15:19:25 <yebyen> i apparently touched the wrong button at mtgox.com
459 2010-10-14 15:19:27 <yebyen> lol
460 2010-10-14 15:19:31 <yebyen> i have -3USD balance now
461 2010-10-14 15:19:38 <UukGoblin> yebyen, I can sell you some for 0.4, does that sound like a good deal?
462 2010-10-14 15:19:38 <yebyen> or -0
463 2010-10-14 15:19:44 <yebyen> maybe that means -0.004
464 2010-10-14 15:19:57 <yebyen> UukGoblin: maybe tomorrow, my paypal won't clear today
465 2010-10-14 15:19:59 <yebyen> unless it just did
466 2010-10-14 15:20:01 <yebyen> let me find out
467 2010-10-14 15:20:23 <jgarzik> yebyen: mtgox balance display at the top is buggy.  the most accurate balance is on the 'Trade' screen, listed in the forms where you buy or sell BTC.
468 2010-10-14 15:20:40 <yebyen> jgarzik: yeah, but account history tells a pretty grim story for me today
469 2010-10-14 15:20:41 <yebyen> lol
470 2010-10-14 15:20:43 <lfm> UukGoblin, I suspect I could undercut that bid
471 2010-10-14 15:21:37 <UukGoblin> lfm, I was just joking ;-]
472 2010-10-14 15:21:55 <UukGoblin> although, of course, if someone wants it, I'm happy to hold up to it ;-]
473 2010-10-14 15:21:59 <yebyen> mtgox is not supposed to let you do that
474 2010-10-14 15:22:04 <yebyen> bastards :)
475 2010-10-14 15:22:23 <lfm> so you wern't joking, shoulda tried a :-) on it!
476 2010-10-14 15:22:39 <yebyen> no man i just watched $40 go away
477 2010-10-14 15:22:45 <UukGoblin> what?
478 2010-10-14 15:22:49 <yebyen> because the market price has been moving, and I don't know how to operate this machine
479 2010-10-14 15:22:53 <yebyen> lol
480 2010-10-14 15:22:55 <yebyen> i set bids and asks
481 2010-10-14 15:22:59 <yebyen> and then i bid today with the higher price
482 2010-10-14 15:23:08 <UukGoblin> oh
483 2010-10-14 15:23:10 <yebyen> and apparently 10 bitcoins at 0.9 is enough to take away $40
484 2010-10-14 15:23:25 <UukGoblin> mail the guy
485 2010-10-14 15:23:34 <yebyen> the mtgox guy?
486 2010-10-14 15:23:35 <UukGoblin> there were certainly cheaper asks
487 2010-10-14 15:23:39 <UukGoblin> yeah
488 2010-10-14 15:23:40 <yebyen> yeah
489 2010-10-14 15:23:45 <yebyen> is that necro?
490 2010-10-14 15:23:49 <UukGoblin> no
491 2010-10-14 15:23:51 <UukGoblin> info@mtgox.com
492 2010-10-14 15:23:53 <yebyen> k
493 2010-10-14 15:24:47 <yebyen> if someone wants to fess up and sell me some bitcoins at under market price
494 2010-10-14 15:24:53 <yebyen> i'll paypal you tomorrow for it
495 2010-10-14 15:25:07 <yebyen> someone must have bought those coins, right?
496 2010-10-14 15:25:34 <yebyen> nah, just bitcoin me the coin
497 2010-10-14 15:25:48 <yebyen> i just lost $40 at mcdonalds :D
498 2010-10-14 15:25:59 <yebyen> and tell me your price
499 2010-10-14 15:26:11 <yebyen> i remember 0.060-0.069 prices
500 2010-10-14 15:26:15 <lfm> yebyen, yup your trade has sure messed up the graph! :-)
501 2010-10-14 15:26:23 <yebyen> can't get those prices anymore
502 2010-10-14 15:26:41 <lfm> last week
503 2010-10-14 15:26:50 <yebyen> lol
504 2010-10-14 15:27:15 <yebyen> anyway i've cleared all of my trade orders
505 2010-10-14 15:27:16 <UukGoblin> yebyen, these trades were definitely screwed up
506 2010-10-14 15:27:18 <yebyen> needless to say
507 2010-10-14 15:27:34 <magnus> yebyen, in what country does mcd charge $40 for a meal?!
508 2010-10-14 15:27:36 <yebyen> yeah i must have a magic line in
509 2010-10-14 15:27:46 <yebyen> magnus: People's Republic of Bitcoin!
510 2010-10-14 15:28:05 <UukGoblin> yebyen, http://pastie.org/1221305 <- that's what happened
511 2010-10-14 15:28:13 <Teppy> If anyone does want to sell some coins, I bet I can find some ATITD players willing to buy, and I'll vouch for them. (IOW, if and ATITD player rips you off, I'll replace the BTC.)
512 2010-10-14 15:28:29 <UukGoblin> ATITD?
513 2010-10-14 15:28:45 <lfm> one of these days someone is gonna find a bug in mgox to their advantage and run off with the profit and maybe wipe out the whole site.
514 2010-10-14 15:28:45 <Teppy> A Tale in the Desert, the game I run.
515 2010-10-14 15:29:09 <UukGoblin> I should try it out some time
516 2010-10-14 15:29:21 <Teppy> You should try out Dragon's Tale also :P
517 2010-10-14 15:29:22 <UukGoblin> Teppy, what rate are they willing to buy at?
518 2010-10-14 15:29:30 <yebyen> UukGoblin: do you see there where I sold 42 at .101?
519 2010-10-14 15:29:36 <yebyen> UukGoblin: i did make some money
520 2010-10-14 15:29:38 <Teppy> No idea, I assume market price is fine.
521 2010-10-14 15:29:38 <UukGoblin> I'm happy to sell at above $0.1, very happy
522 2010-10-14 15:29:58 <nanotube> Teppy: why not just have them buy on bitcoinmarket.com?
523 2010-10-14 15:30:10 <yebyen> i should have cleared my orders first
524 2010-10-14 15:30:21 <Teppy> Nanotube: No new registrations.
525 2010-10-14 15:30:31 <yebyen> i wonder how we got two tiers of trades
526 2010-10-14 15:30:33 <yebyen> like that
527 2010-10-14 15:30:40 <lfm> Teppy, they paying with game currency or real life currency?
528 2010-10-14 15:30:47 <Teppy> PayPal
529 2010-10-14 15:30:47 <yebyen> people are trading in different orders of magnitude
530 2010-10-14 15:30:57 <UukGoblin> Teppy, thing is, there is no market price really
531 2010-10-14 15:31:05 <UukGoblin> the only really working exchange is bitcoinexchange
532 2010-10-14 15:31:13 <UukGoblin> but that's well lagged
533 2010-10-14 15:31:29 <UukGoblin> and only takes EU bank transfers in euros
534 2010-10-14 15:31:44 <nanotube> Teppy: i just tried clicking 'register' and it showed me a form, without any trouble.. maybe reg reopened on bcm?
535 2010-10-14 15:31:45 <lfm> ya 0.09 to 0.10 is market price, make your own offer
536 2010-10-14 15:31:48 <jgarzik> BCM works just fine
537 2010-10-14 15:32:00 <UukGoblin> I can sell 1k at $0.10
538 2010-10-14 15:32:19 <Teppy> Ok, let me see if anyone wants some.
539 2010-10-14 15:32:42 <yebyen> 162229 <+gribble> MTG|     TRADE|                     38.956 @ $0.9
540 2010-10-14 15:32:45 <yebyen> yeah that is my trade
541 2010-10-14 15:32:54 <yebyen> i have it on the top of my account history
542 2010-10-14 15:32:56 <UukGoblin> yebyen, again, mail the mtgox guy
543 2010-10-14 15:33:08 <UukGoblin> this did happen before
544 2010-10-14 15:33:16 <nanotube> mmm yea yebyen according to mtg trading rules, that shouldn't have happened. it should pick out the lowest asks/highest bids
545 2010-10-14 15:33:27 <yebyen> well, you guys saw it happen too
546 2010-10-14 15:33:35 <yebyen> if he stops by maybe i'll bring it up to him
547 2010-10-14 15:33:37 <nanotube> yes we saw
548 2010-10-14 15:33:39 <yebyen> lol
549 2010-10-14 15:33:42 <nanotube> we're saying that's a bug
550 2010-10-14 15:33:45 <yebyen> yeah
551 2010-10-14 15:33:46 <nanotube> and you should tell mtg about it
552 2010-10-14 15:33:54 <yebyen> you don't think he reads these graphs?
553 2010-10-14 15:33:55 <yebyen> :)
554 2010-10-14 15:34:00 <yebyen> that will register
555 2010-10-14 15:34:04 <UukGoblin> mail him
556 2010-10-14 15:34:07 <yebyen> ok
557 2010-10-14 15:34:08 <yebyen> ok
558 2010-10-14 15:34:13 <UukGoblin> otherwise he might not know who was involved
559 2010-10-14 15:34:17 <nanotube> well, yea... but doesn't hurt to mail him and be like 'zomg'
560 2010-10-14 15:34:49 <UukGoblin> Teppy, tell me more about the game... how does it use bitcoins?
561 2010-10-14 15:35:25 <Teppy> It's a casino MMORPG - a 3D world where everything that you can see you can gamble on. But, not games like blackjack or craps or poker...
562 2010-10-14 15:35:51 <nathan7> :o
563 2010-10-14 15:36:12 <Teppy> So, you come across a table with a lever - pull the lever for 1 BTC and fireworks shells launch across the town square - if 3+ match, then you win.
564 2010-10-14 15:36:52 <Teppy> Or you find a coconut tree: You shake it (1 BTC) or shake it hard (2 BTC), etc., and between 2 and 20 coconuts fall. If it's an odd number, you double your bet.
565 2010-10-14 15:37:29 <UukGoblin> ah, interesting
566 2010-10-14 15:37:32 <Teppy> Or the game I just finished coding: You come across a garden and pick up a shovel (3 BTC), and you dig 8 holes...
567 2010-10-14 15:37:33 <yebyen> does anyone want to figure out how to implement evas into ferite with me?
568 2010-10-14 15:37:59 <UukGoblin> so you have a central server that generates these random events?
569 2010-10-14 15:38:42 <Teppy> It tells you how many coins are hidden in the garden, say, 14. If you get piles in a row, then the 2nd pile's amount is doubled, or 3 piles it's 3x'ed.
570 2010-10-14 15:39:14 <Teppy> So if you have a streak of 1,4,2, then you'd get 1+4x2+2x3 = 15.
571 2010-10-14 15:39:33 <Teppy> It's the same client and server (tech) that runs ATITD.
572 2010-10-14 15:39:45 <Teppy> It's a 3D persistant world.
573 2010-10-14 15:40:04 <UukGoblin> interesting
574 2010-10-14 15:40:08 <Teppy> Want a quick tour?
575 2010-10-14 15:40:14 <UukGoblin> and if I want to just have a look around, do I need to put money?
576 2010-10-14 15:40:25 <UukGoblin> maybe at the weekend, can't now
577 2010-10-14 15:40:31 <Teppy> k
578 2010-10-14 16:06:41 <jackmcbarn> finally generated some bitcoins. whys it say they mature in 116 more blocks?
579 2010-10-14 16:07:48 <ArtForz> generated bitcoins take 120 blocks before they show up in balance and can be spent
580 2010-10-14 16:09:10 <ArtForz> it's to protect against short-ish splits of the block chain causing invalid transactions
581 2010-10-14 16:16:15 <MartinW> Hm...
582 2010-10-14 16:16:20 <MartinW> What can I do with 2.5 bitcoins.
583 2010-10-14 16:16:29 <MartinW> Wait 2 years and then retire on it? ;-)
584 2010-10-14 16:16:42 <sandos> maybe :)
585 2010-10-14 16:17:03 <sandos> Id say its not likely though ;)
586 2010-10-14 16:17:15 <MartinW> Definitely not.
587 2010-10-14 16:17:18 <MartinW> What should I do with them though?
588 2010-10-14 16:17:31 <MartinW> It's not really enough to purchase anything serious.
589 2010-10-14 16:17:33 <nathan7> You can't even bite on them D:
590 2010-10-14 16:17:34 <sandos> give them away, or just keep them?
591 2010-10-14 16:17:43 <nathan7> Turn them into 7.5 bitcoins?
592 2010-10-14 16:17:48 <nathan7> (bitcoin faucet :D)
593 2010-10-14 16:18:08 <MartinW> How do you turn them into more with bitcoin faucet?
594 2010-10-14 16:18:15 <gavinandresen> (ah, the good old days when the faucet gave out 5...)
595 2010-10-14 16:18:31 <MartinW> Oh.
596 2010-10-14 16:18:38 <MartinW> I already got some from the faucet.
597 2010-10-14 16:19:30 <gavinandresen> 2.5 bitcoins is worth between two and three US cents... not much you can do with 2 or 3 pennies these days, either.
598 2010-10-14 16:19:47 <sandos> haha
599 2010-10-14 16:20:02 <MartinW> gavinandresen, isn't that 20 - 30?
600 2010-10-14 16:20:02 <sandos> my ip has been renewe, so I took some from the faucet =)
601 2010-10-14 16:20:15 <gavinandresen> MartinW: right you are!
602 2010-10-14 16:20:20 <MartinW> ;mtgox
603 2010-10-14 16:20:22 <bitbot> MartinW: Mt. Gox: Last(0.1) High(0.9) Low(0.065) BestSellPrice(0.095) BestBuyPrice(0.1) Volume(49558)
604 2010-10-14 16:20:34 <gavinandresen> (ah, the good old days when bitcoins were worth a half a penny a piece...)
605 2010-10-14 16:20:37 <MartinW> That's nearly two SA rands.
606 2010-10-14 16:20:50 <sandos> transactions appear very quickly in the client. I have no idea how that even works, I should print the paper on this thing
607 2010-10-14 16:22:55 <nanotube> MartinW: send them to me hehe
608 2010-10-14 16:23:08 <MartinW> nanotube, what's your addy?
609 2010-10-14 16:23:13 <MartinW> I'll send you 0.01 just for fun.
610 2010-10-14 16:23:26 <gavinandresen> MartinW: I think madhatter had/has a website where you can buy naughty videos for bitcoins.  Don' t know what you can buy with 2.5 of them, though.....
611 2010-10-14 16:23:29 <MartinW> Yes, I know I butchered the word "address", but I have no regrets.
612 2010-10-14 16:23:49 <gribble> Why not send me some bitcoins instead, to this address: 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
613 2010-10-14 16:23:49 <nanotube> MartinW: send it to gribble at ,,(botsnack)
614 2010-10-14 16:24:00 <nanotube> :)
615 2010-10-14 16:24:07 <sandos> naughty videos? Where? ;)
616 2010-10-14 16:24:34 <gavinandresen> www.bitcoinxxx.com
617 2010-10-14 16:24:39 <sandos> haha
618 2010-10-14 16:25:26 <gavinandresen> Ah, yeah, there you go MartinW:  1.5 bitcoins will buy you a "Canadian Beaver" naughty video.
619 2010-10-14 16:25:45 <gavinandresen> Oops, no, never mind, read that wrong
620 2010-10-14 16:25:49 <sandos> loser videos? Some kind of meme I hav missed out on... or something
621 2010-10-14 16:25:55 <gavinandresen> It's 12.75 bitcoins
622 2010-10-14 16:26:08 <gavinandresen> ($1.50 DOLLARS)
623 2010-10-14 16:26:48 <nathan7> :O
624 2010-10-14 16:26:58 <nathan7> holy shit man
625 2010-10-14 16:27:06 <nathan7> I should've waited with exchanging my bitcoins
626 2010-10-14 16:27:13 <sandos> hehe
627 2010-10-14 16:27:48 <sandos> I do wonder if the host really has all the proper licenses for the videos?
628 2010-10-14 16:28:02 <nathan7> Who cares
629 2010-10-14 16:28:29 <sandos> well, paying real money for pirated data is not something I see informed people doing :)
630 2010-10-14 16:29:05 <MartinW> I wonder where exactly your legal obligation to ensure the data isn't pirated ends.
631 2010-10-14 16:29:21 <gavinandresen> sandos: really?  I think most informed people would just find some way to rationalize it...
632 2010-10-14 16:30:02 <sandos> MartinW: is there such a obligation? I don't know, but I know for physical goods there is, atleast here in Sweden
633 2010-10-14 16:31:53 <sandos> well, not for "pirated" but for buying stoled goods
634 2010-10-14 16:32:03 <sandos> not sure about, say, counterfeit clothes
635 2010-10-14 16:50:05 <Zarutian> sandos: well, I have bought "genuine" trademarked clothes and generic/knockoff versions of same. No bloody difference in quality or durability. The trademarked ones cost more for no reason other than it is carring a brand name.
636 2010-10-14 16:51:12 <Zarutian> ("genuine" because it was as much crap as the elcheapo versions)
637 2010-10-14 16:52:55 <nathan7> =p
638 2010-10-14 17:24:18 <Xunie> <MartinW> I wonder where exactly your legal obligation to ensure the data isn't pirated ends. << Usually, there is none.
639 2010-10-14 17:24:43 <Xunie> I would say there is somewhat of a social or moral "code", but who cares.
640 2010-10-14 17:33:22 <lfm> depends on the data
641 2010-10-14 17:43:41 <Teppy> The original meaning of copyright is the right to copy something. IOW, it's not viewing that is the crime, but the duplication of something that you don't have the right to duplicate.
642 2010-10-14 17:44:05 <Teppy> (And yeah, I know it's civil, not criminal, at least originally.)
643 2010-10-14 17:50:18 <ArtForz> around here in .de copyright law is mainly about distribution, not duplication
644 2010-10-14 17:53:06 <bonsaikitten> .de has some funny bits like immutable author's rights
645 2010-10-14 17:53:11 <ArtForz> yep
646 2010-10-14 17:53:13 <bonsaikitten> you cannot deny that you created it
647 2010-10-14 17:54:34 <ArtForz> we also have equiv to first sale doctrine
648 2010-10-14 17:55:53 <Teppy> Looks like bitcoinmarketis back!
649 2010-10-14 17:55:56 <Teppy> *is
650 2010-10-14 17:57:14 <ArtForz> also weird stuff like "breaking copy protection is illegal, unless it's needed to access the content"
651 2010-10-14 17:57:56 <necrodearia> Can anyone tell me if this patch ( http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=984.20 ) is necessary anymore?  I haven
652 2010-10-14 17:57:58 <bitbot> [PATCH REQUEST] Variable ports (205BTC reward)
653 2010-10-14 17:58:03 <ArtForz> aka the "yay-legal-decss-for-us-linux-weirdos" clause ;)
654 2010-10-14 18:01:31 <ArtForz> of course only outlawing distribution of unauthorized copies has a weird/fun/useful side effect, you can legally buy a book, copy it, sell the original and keep the copy
655 2010-10-14 18:28:28 <gavinandresen> necrodearia:  Half of the variable ports patch is necessary, half isn't (-rpcport is in the mainline client, -port is not, yet).
656 2010-10-14 18:33:04 <necrodearia> gavinandresen, mm, thanks
657 2010-10-14 18:33:16 <necrodearia> jgarzik, o/
658 2010-10-14 18:44:49 <necrodearia> gavinandresen, I believe http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1319.20 can use an update since it doesn't seem to compile with svn rev 167
659 2010-10-14 18:44:50 <bitbot> [PATCH] monitoraddress/blocks
660 2010-10-14 18:45:54 <necrodearia> "but you have to have an "svn-remote" setup in your .git/config" <-- I don't have this and have no idea how to set it up.
661 2010-10-14 18:47:28 <gavinandresen> necrodearia: bitcoind or bitcoin doesn't compile?
662 2010-10-14 18:47:54 <necrodearia> gavinandresen, Well, I haven't begun compiling yet.  the patch failed
663 2010-10-14 18:48:16 <necrodearia> gavinandresen, http://pastebin.com/j1L06tU6
664 2010-10-14 18:48:25 <gavinandresen> That's odd...  let me check
665 2010-10-14 18:48:51 <necrodearia> patch for init.cpp file may need to be updated.
666 2010-10-14 18:49:18 <necrodearia> I made sure to use your patch first in my ebuild, so it is not because of a conflict with another patch
667 2010-10-14 18:50:03 <gavinandresen> curl http://gist.github.com/raw/604574/75ef56292e7fc0a1a55d4fada6d46c42d7af13cf/monitorreceived.patch | patch
668 2010-10-14 18:50:07 <gavinandresen> ... works for me
669 2010-10-14 18:50:17 <gavinandresen> (I updated the patch 3 days ago)
670 2010-10-14 18:51:14 <necrodearia> humm
671 2010-10-14 18:51:27 <gavinandresen> (I DID finally get around to writing a little bash script to automating those patches, by the way...)
672 2010-10-14 18:52:28 <necrodearia> gavinandresen, Ah, that works.
673 2010-10-14 18:52:35 <necrodearia> I must have used a different source for the patch
674 2010-10-14 18:52:36 <gavinandresen> Although hang on a sec, looking at the patch it is patching to the TEST network
675 2010-10-14 18:52:48 <necrodearia> http://gist.github.com/604574
676 2010-10-14 18:53:04 <gavinandresen> ... and you don't want that, I don't think.
677 2010-10-14 18:53:40 <gavinandresen> Now I'm thinking my patch automation script must have a bug!
678 2010-10-14 18:56:38 <necrodearia> Ah, you're right.  heh, the patch modifies main.cpp genesis block ^_^
679 2010-10-14 18:57:09 <gavinandresen> Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how those changes snuck in...  and how to back them back out.
680 2010-10-14 19:20:12 <gavinandresen> necrodearia:  Well, I made a mess out of that... but it should be all better now.  Latest gist version should work.
681 2010-10-14 19:20:31 <necrodearia> thanks (not just for me, but for all of bitcoin community. ^_^
682 2010-10-14 19:20:55 <bitbot> yeah, what necro said, uhm, thanks... ._.
683 2010-10-14 19:22:13 <gavinandresen> As soon as I launch my super-secret project (soon, I hope!) I'll switch back to doing a little 'core bitcoin' work, and getting the arbitrary ports and monitor* features into mainline svn is high on my list.
684 2010-10-14 19:22:47 <necrodearia> ^_^
685 2010-10-14 19:26:44 <necrodearia> Does anyone know if jgarzik's getblock patch ( http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=724.msg8053#msg8053 ) is necessary anymore?  It still works with svn rev 167, but it is not compatible with gavin's monitor patch.
686 2010-10-14 19:26:46 <bitbot> [PATCH] implement getblock RPC command : jgarzik: Updated patch to v2, with a simple cast fix for 32-bit machines.  Same URL: http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/patch.bitcoin-getblock
687 2010-10-14 19:27:41 <gavinandresen> I reimplemented getblock in the monitor* patch
688 2010-10-14 19:28:17 <gavinandresen> (so it returned the same JSON data structures as monitorblock )
689 2010-10-14 19:28:39 <necrodearia> Ah, so your patch makes getblock patch deprecated, right?
690 2010-10-14 19:28:43 <gavinandresen> Yup
691 2010-10-14 19:28:49 <necrodearia> Yay! ^_^
692 2010-10-14 19:29:32 <nanotube> gavinandresen: consider also getting the listtransactions patch in :)
693 2010-10-14 19:29:53 <gavinandresen> nanotube: I was just gonna mention listtransactions...
694 2010-10-14 19:29:57 <nanotube> :)
695 2010-10-14 19:30:49 <gavinandresen> One of the things that needs to be done is make listtransactions return JSON info similar to what you get from the monitor* callbacks
696 2010-10-14 19:31:24 <nanotube> doesn't it return json-format info already?
697 2010-10-14 19:31:26 <gavinandresen> At least, I THINK that needs to be done, I need to look hard at it.
698 2010-10-14 19:31:37 <Xunie> Hmm, my bitcoind doesn't seem to die!
699 2010-10-14 19:31:44 <Xunie> 1 D xunie    12695     1  0  80   0 - 39208 exit_m 23:24 pts/1    00:00:01 ./bitcoind
700 2010-10-14 19:31:46 <Xunie> ;_;
701 2010-10-14 19:31:55 <gavinandresen> Yeah, it returns JSON info, but probably named a little differently or in a different format than the other patches.
702 2010-10-14 19:32:00 <Xunie> Tried everything, kill -9 too, any ideas?
703 2010-10-14 19:32:09 <gavinandresen> kill -9 doesn't kill it ?  That's odd.
704 2010-10-14 19:32:20 <Xunie> gavinandresen, had this before, it's weird.
705 2010-10-14 19:32:25 <nanotube> mm ok. talk to jgarzik - he'd be happy to hear that listtransactions is being thought about, and will (probably) be happy work with you on the format bits
706 2010-10-14 19:32:39 <nanotube> gavinandresen: --^
707 2010-10-14 19:32:43 <gavinandresen> nanotube:  Yup, I just don't have the time right now.
708 2010-10-14 19:33:09 <nanotube> heh ic. super-secret stuff is first priority eh :)
709 2010-10-14 19:33:25 <gavinandresen> No, first priority is the wife and kids.....
710 2010-10-14 19:33:54 <gavinandresen> Third or fourth priority is the super-secret stuff.  Then other bitcoin stuff...
711 2010-10-14 19:34:22 <nanotube> haha yea. :) i meant, first priority relative to other bitcoin stuff.
712 2010-10-14 19:34:41 <gavinandresen> ;-)
713 2010-10-14 19:34:41 <thrashaholic_> i do not consent to this logging! :P
714 2010-10-14 19:34:46 <necrodearia> heh
715 2010-10-14 20:47:25 <yebyen> hum
716 2010-10-14 20:52:42 <Xunie> 10040881 << Wow, I'm going fast! :D
717 2010-10-14 20:53:04 <yebyen> hashes/sec?
718 2010-10-14 20:53:25 <thrashaholic_> i wish bitcoin had proxy support so i could generate here at work
719 2010-10-14 20:53:36 <Alystair> brb new mirc
720 2010-10-14 20:53:39 <thrashaholic_> this machine would rock the hash/sec
721 2010-10-14 20:54:22 <yebyen> can't you somehow accomplish that with ssh port forwarding?
722 2010-10-14 20:54:28 <Alystair> ok :p
723 2010-10-14 20:54:34 <yebyen> forward a remote port from a machine who isn't firewalled to get to it
724 2010-10-14 20:54:38 <Alystair> necrodearia: still no reply from the freenode staff ;[
725 2010-10-14 20:54:51 <Alystair> got a way to be in touch with theowner?
726 2010-10-14 20:55:16 <thrashaholic_> yebyen: that is way too much work
727 2010-10-14 20:55:37 <thrashaholic_> everything i have is either natted or firewalled so i can't anyway ;)
728 2010-10-14 20:55:42 <necrodearia> Alystair, Give it 2-5 years maybe
729 2010-10-14 20:56:04 <Alystair> ~_~;
730 2010-10-14 21:00:19 <Xunie> yebyen, yeah, hashes/sec.
731 2010-10-14 22:18:56 <necrodearia> Is anyone familiar with gavinandresen's monitor patch?  I'm having troubles compiling it: http://pastebin.com/WjJA3r2r
732 2010-10-14 22:24:02 <gavinandresen> I'm pretty familiar with it
733 2010-10-14 22:24:12 <gavinandresen> (just saw your pm...)
734 2010-10-14 22:25:55 <necrodearia> ^_^
735 2010-10-14 22:56:47 <jgarzik> necrodearia: can u leave feedback for me on biddingpond?  gotta build that reputation...
736 2010-10-14 23:11:44 <necrodearia> jgarzik, mm, sure ^_^
737 2010-10-14 23:12:42 <necrodearia> Oooh, is biddingpond.com site owner here?
738 2010-10-14 23:12:54 <necrodearia> Meh, I'll post to forum