1 2010-10-30 00:00:07 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: it's not like you have better prediction ability
  2 2010-10-30 00:00:14 <Kiba> in hindsight you can alway make more, not lose, etc
  3 2010-10-30 00:00:20 <a_meteorite> genjix: lawl
  4 2010-10-30 00:00:23 <Diablo-D3> no I meant overhead reduction
  5 2010-10-30 00:00:28 <Diablo-D3> I was thinking of waiting to 500 again
  6 2010-10-30 00:01:55 <OneFixt> Lend them to me to sell =)
  7 2010-10-30 00:02:07 <Diablo-D3> heh no
  8 2010-10-30 00:02:21 <genjix> how many people in bitcoin are working on poker sites now?
  9 2010-10-30 00:02:38 <Diablo-D3> LOL
 10 2010-10-30 00:11:51 <OneFixt> <-- borrowing BitCoins at 1% per Month (1/30 % per day)
 11 2010-10-30 00:20:49 <Kiba> OneFixt: what ya doing with your bitcoins?
 12 2010-10-30 00:21:03 <OneFixt> Trading
 13 2010-10-30 00:21:14 <OneFixt> Same as you =)
 14 2010-10-30 00:21:17 <Kiba> I once try to start a loaning company back in High school offering microloans
 15 2010-10-30 00:21:43 <OneFixt> Did it work out?
 16 2010-10-30 00:21:52 <Kiba> naw
 17 2010-10-30 00:21:57 <Kiba> I didn't have social graph to do it
 18 2010-10-30 00:22:12 <XxMalouinxX> haha
 19 2010-10-30 00:22:15 <XxMalouinxX> :p
 20 2010-10-30 00:22:16 <Kiba> but I did got a guy who paid me some interests for borrowing money
 21 2010-10-30 00:22:34 <OneFixt> I'm sure you got good experience out of it.
 22 2010-10-30 00:22:48 <Kiba> zero experience
 23 2010-10-30 00:22:55 <Kiba> should have not gave up
 24 2010-10-30 00:23:16 <Kiba> I actually say that I wouldn't beat them up or anything, and that everything was based on trust and reputation
 25 2010-10-30 00:23:32 <Kiba> trying to create a proto-agorist economy I guess
 26 2010-10-30 00:24:18 <OneFixt> Maybe we'll get it to work here.
 27 2010-10-30 00:34:44 <Kiba> people are refusing to sell their bitcoins!
 28 2010-10-30 00:34:58 <Kiba> moar people want bitcoin than there are people who don't want bitcoins
 29 2010-10-30 00:35:29 <theymos> Kiba: Well, Diablo-D3 just sold me his. I think that people just don't like the markets.
 30 2010-10-30 00:36:28 <Kiba> theymos: gloomy customers?
 31 2010-10-30 00:37:17 <Diablo-D3> I like selling to people I know
 32 2010-10-30 00:37:29 <XxMalouinxX> ;)
 33 2010-10-30 00:37:42 <Diablo-D3> also, I liked selling to people who are core bitcoin people
 34 2010-10-30 00:37:49 <genjix> ill sell my bitcoins
 35 2010-10-30 00:37:51 <Kiba> like who?
 36 2010-10-30 00:37:59 <genjix> i have 14 btc for $10
 37 2010-10-30 00:38:11 <genjix> good deal imo
 38 2010-10-30 00:38:29 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: people smart enough to be in the other channel =P
 39 2010-10-30 00:38:42 <genjix> or you can play me at poker to try to win them off me
 40 2010-10-30 00:43:22 <XxMalouinxX> Diablo-D3: approx. 80$ left to obtain ?
 41 2010-10-30 00:43:35 <Diablo-D3> lets find out
 42 2010-10-30 00:43:45 <Diablo-D3> [10:10:38] <Diablo-D3> 116.19 for my fund
 43 2010-10-30 00:43:50 <Diablo-D3> so
 44 2010-10-30 00:43:59 <Diablo-D3> $64?
 45 2010-10-30 00:44:06 <Diablo-D3> and thats just to get into the playing field
 46 2010-10-30 00:44:07 <XxMalouinxX> didn't you jut sell some ?
 47 2010-10-30 00:44:24 <Diablo-D3> [10:09:11] <Diablo-D3> I currently have 82.44 in my new video card fund
 48 2010-10-30 00:44:26 <Diablo-D3> that was before sale
 49 2010-10-30 00:44:35 <XxMalouinxX> ahhh, ok
 50 2010-10-30 00:44:48 <Diablo-D3> so $64
 51 2010-10-30 00:44:55 <Diablo-D3> and thats just to get the cheapest card thats worthy as replacement
 52 2010-10-30 00:45:04 <XxMalouinxX> lol
 53 2010-10-30 00:45:14 <Diablo-D3> Im eyeing the 69xx series
 54 2010-10-30 00:45:21 <XxMalouinxX> antilles ;)
 55 2010-10-30 00:45:27 <Diablo-D3> maybe not dual chip
 56 2010-10-30 00:45:38 <theymos> I hope you manage to recoup your investment. You'll have to compete with all of the other people buying cards.
 57 2010-10-30 00:45:46 <XxMalouinxX> I hope it to be a dual
 58 2010-10-30 00:45:49 <Diablo-D3> theymos: well, theres nothing to recoup
 59 2010-10-30 00:45:55 <Diablo-D3> Im buying forwards
 60 2010-10-30 00:46:04 <Diablo-D3> as in, I sell coins now, and buy card
 61 2010-10-30 00:46:08 <Diablo-D3> instead of buy card, and then sell coins
 62 2010-10-30 00:46:28 <theymos> You'll be making an investment in USD, though.
 63 2010-10-30 00:46:38 <Diablo-D3> theymos: an investment implies it has to pay off
 64 2010-10-30 00:46:46 <Diablo-D3> theymos: its already paid for when I buy it, my way
 65 2010-10-30 00:46:46 <XxMalouinxX> ;)
 66 2010-10-30 00:47:03 <Diablo-D3> like, art bought shit on credit, and is now paying them off
 67 2010-10-30 00:47:11 <Diablo-D3> Im selling coins FIRST, and THEN buying card
 68 2010-10-30 00:47:31 <Diablo-D3> XxMalouinxX: btw, antilles is dual chip, but the leaked model number is 6990
 69 2010-10-30 00:47:40 <XxMalouinxX> i see
 70 2010-10-30 00:47:44 <Diablo-D3> the replacement for the 5870 stands a chance of not being dual chip
 71 2010-10-30 00:47:46 <ArtForz> actually I'm already pretty much even
 72 2010-10-30 00:47:49 <Kiba> competition amongst silly miners
 73 2010-10-30 00:47:59 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: well, art has the biggest dick of all, so meh
 74 2010-10-30 00:48:14 <XxMalouinxX> *node*
 75 2010-10-30 00:49:02 <Diablo-D3> XxMalouinxX: if the 69xx end up being too pricey, I'll probably grab a 6850 or 70
 76 2010-10-30 00:49:13 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, I sold another 250, wee
 77 2010-10-30 00:49:13 <XxMalouinxX> that still good
 78 2010-10-30 00:49:17 <Kiba> decrease the cost of electricity by recycling computer heat
 79 2010-10-30 00:49:30 <Kiba> with a sterling engine
 80 2010-10-30 00:49:36 <Diablo-D3> XxMalouinxX: the 6850 should be about 2x my 4850
 81 2010-10-30 00:49:42 <Diablo-D3> XxMalouinxX: while using the same watts
 82 2010-10-30 00:49:53 <Kiba> build a water can heater from your soda habits to heat up water to power a sterling engine to decrease the cost of electricity
 83 2010-10-30 00:50:07 <ArtForz> easily
 84 2010-10-30 00:50:12 <XxMalouinxX> Diablo-D3: anyway it will be a good upgrade, without any cost from your pocket
 85 2010-10-30 00:50:18 <Diablo-D3> exactly
 86 2010-10-30 00:50:30 <ArtForz> 6850 should clock in at ~170Mh/s
 87 2010-10-30 00:50:36 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, give or take
 88 2010-10-30 00:50:42 <Diablo-D3> the flat gflops is around 1.5x
 89 2010-10-30 00:50:53 <Kiba> how many cards does ArtForz have?
 90 2010-10-30 00:51:00 <Diablo-D3> but 4xxx has shit opencl performance
 91 2010-10-30 00:51:07 <Diablo-D3> so Im thinking 2-2.5x performance
 92 2010-10-30 00:51:14 <ArtForz> 5xxx has bitalign = native rotate
 93 2010-10-30 00:51:19 <ArtForz> same for 6xxx
 94 2010-10-30 00:51:24 <Diablo-D3> yeah
 95 2010-10-30 00:51:33 <Diablo-D3> either way, I get much more performance
 96 2010-10-30 00:51:39 <XxMalouinxX> Yep
 97 2010-10-30 00:52:06 <ArtForz> about 50% faster that 4xxx at same FLOPS
 98 2010-10-30 00:52:17 <ArtForz> right now 4 5970s and 5 5770s active
 99 2010-10-30 00:52:25 <XxMalouinxX> PSu received ?
100 2010-10-30 00:52:30 <ArtForz> nope
101 2010-10-30 00:52:51 <XxMalouinxX> how come then ?
102 2010-10-30 00:53:03 <ArtForz> well, because I had a spare 850W around
103 2010-10-30 00:53:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, lets count those 5 5770s as a single 5970
104 2010-10-30 00:53:10 <Diablo-D3> so you have 5 5970s.
105 2010-10-30 00:53:15 <Diablo-D3> thats a lot of fucking power
106 2010-10-30 00:53:27 <XxMalouinxX> :P
107 2010-10-30 00:53:44 <ArtForz> and I got 7 more 5970s coming in
108 2010-10-30 00:53:48 <Diablo-D3> 5770 == 1/3rd 5870, 5970 == 2x 5870
109 2010-10-30 00:53:59 <ArtForz> and a 6870 for good measure
110 2010-10-30 00:54:00 <Diablo-D3> so, lets just fudge it and say thats a 5970
111 2010-10-30 00:54:06 <theymos> I actually generated a block recently. I haven't generated one for more than a month. (I'm generating on two old CPUs - 2.5 khash/s total.)
112 2010-10-30 00:54:16 <Diablo-D3> theymos: mhash
113 2010-10-30 00:54:18 <XxMalouinxX> lucky :p
114 2010-10-30 00:54:35 <theymos> Diablo-D3: yes, mhash.
115 2010-10-30 00:54:43 <ArtForz> 1 OCed 5770 = ~189Mh
116 2010-10-30 00:54:52 <ArtForz> 1 OCed 5970 = ~640Mh
117 2010-10-30 00:55:08 <ArtForz> err
118 2010-10-30 00:55:09 <ArtForz> 680
119 2010-10-30 00:55:25 <XxMalouinxX> Oced at 910 I guess ?
120 2010-10-30 00:55:30 <ArtForz> jup
121 2010-10-30 00:55:49 <ArtForz> so 1 5970 = 3.6 5770s
122 2010-10-30 00:56:55 <ArtForz> add the 6870 hopefully OCing to ~250Mh/s and the rest of the cards combined are about 1.75 5970s
123 2010-10-30 00:58:23 <ArtForz> that should bring my total to over 9000
124 2010-10-30 00:59:11 <a_meteorite> OVER 9000?!?!
125 2010-10-30 00:59:26 <ArtForz> it's over 9000!!!
126 2010-10-30 00:59:29 <noagendamarket> lol
127 2010-10-30 00:59:54 <OneFixt> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11650593
128 2010-10-30 01:03:09 <noagendamarket> Kiba the sterling engine would be outrageous :)
129 2010-10-30 01:03:32 <Kiba> outrageous?
130 2010-10-30 01:03:52 <Diablo-D3> geg
131 2010-10-30 01:03:53 <Diablo-D3> 'heh
132 2010-10-30 01:03:55 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit
133 2010-10-30 01:03:55 <Kiba> I was planning to make a soda can water heater but I never got around to it?
134 2010-10-30 01:03:56 <Diablo-D3> heh.
135 2010-10-30 01:04:26 <Kiba> someday..I'll transform my room into a steampunk lab
136 2010-10-30 01:04:44 <Kiba> and there's a good chance of doing that if I actually make money in large quanityt
137 2010-10-30 01:04:55 <XxMalouinxX> Diablo-D3: so mate, in how many days will you get your last ~60$ ?
138 2010-10-30 01:05:23 <XxMalouinxX> Kiba: were you the one who ordered 1 radeon 5970 ?
139 2010-10-30 01:05:33 <Diablo-D3> XxMalouinxX: maybe another 30
140 2010-10-30 01:05:51 <XxMalouinxX> ok
141 2010-10-30 01:05:53 <Kiba> No.
142 2010-10-30 01:06:13 <Kiba> hmm
143 2010-10-30 01:06:30 <Kiba> GPU cards are now valuable commodity on the BTC market
144 2010-10-30 01:06:43 <Kiba> beowulf GPU clusters
145 2010-10-30 01:10:21 <XxMalouinxX> Except Art, who do you think got big gpu farm ?
146 2010-10-30 01:10:39 <Kiba> I don't know who
147 2010-10-30 01:11:48 <noagendamarket> outrageous=awesome
148 2010-10-30 01:13:19 <theymos> I believe only ArtForz has more than 10% of the network. Otherwise, less people would be generating at all, and I still see people talking about generating.
149 2010-10-30 01:14:18 <XxMalouinxX> he's gonna 2.5x his actual generation soon.
150 2010-10-30 01:14:38 <ArtForz> huh?
151 2010-10-30 01:15:09 <XxMalouinxX> my math arent' correct ?
152 2010-10-30 01:15:11 <ArtForz> since when is 4.3 -> 9.2  2.5x?
153 2010-10-30 01:15:20 <theymos> ArtForz: Do you think your addition will take you over 50% of the network's CPU?
154 2010-10-30 01:15:25 <XxMalouinxX> duh, was sticked with your 3.6
155 2010-10-30 01:16:08 <ArtForz> the 3.6 is due to missing PSU
156 2010-10-30 01:16:15 <XxMalouinxX> yea
157 2010-10-30 01:16:21 <ArtForz> erm, still quite a way from that
158 2010-10-30 01:16:49 <ArtForz> if total hashrate stays the same, about 33%
159 2010-10-30 01:17:08 <ArtForz> with at least 4 other 5970s coming online, ~25%
160 2010-10-30 01:17:27 <theymos> So you're just fighting to maintain your previous position, really.
161 2010-10-30 01:17:34 <ArtForz> pretty much
162 2010-10-30 01:18:21 <ArtForz> I didnt add a single card in 2 weeks
163 2010-10-30 01:19:16 <genjix> OneFixt: jesus, that's terrible
164 2010-10-30 01:19:27 <genjix> the government is so fascist
165 2010-10-30 01:19:32 <genjix> should leave that poor dude alone
166 2010-10-30 01:21:00 <noagendamarket> genjix hes not a hero ffs
167 2010-10-30 01:21:12 <genjix> hes not doing anything wrong
168 2010-10-30 01:21:46 <noagendamarket> targetting grieving people is a moral act?
169 2010-10-30 01:22:03 <noagendamarket> hope you never lose someone
170 2010-10-30 01:22:22 <noagendamarket> Im not agreeing with what the government did
171 2010-10-30 01:22:30 <noagendamarket> just that hes a wanker
172 2010-10-30 01:22:37 <noagendamarket> lol
173 2010-10-30 01:23:00 <noagendamarket> i think they should place him in a room with those peoples families
174 2010-10-30 01:23:05 <noagendamarket> :)
175 2010-10-30 01:23:22 <noagendamarket> free market justice ftw
176 2010-10-30 01:24:24 <genjix> erm no
177 2010-10-30 01:24:38 <genjix> free speech ftw
178 2010-10-30 01:24:50 <genjix> gtfo the internet if you cant take the flak
179 2010-10-30 01:25:15 <noagendamarket> no if youre an asshat you should face the consequences
180 2010-10-30 01:25:42 <theymos> Free speech shouldn't trump property rights (though it probably didn't here).
181 2010-10-30 01:26:33 <appamatto> "free" anything usually means it trumps property rights
182 2010-10-30 01:26:36 <genjix> i think i am the odd thumb in this community
183 2010-10-30 01:26:44 <appamatto> like freedom of education
184 2010-10-30 01:26:45 <genjix> im the anarcho-socialist
185 2010-10-30 01:27:01 <genjix> i noticed everyone is anarcho-capitalists :p
186 2010-10-30 01:27:15 <ArtForz> rude comments on the internet, the horror!
187 2010-10-30 01:27:27 <appamatto> Agorists seem to be friendly to the libertarian left
188 2010-10-30 01:27:28 <genjix> so i might say property rights... fuck them
189 2010-10-30 01:27:47 <genjix> but w/e politics is boring
190 2010-10-30 01:28:01 <appamatto> yeah
191 2010-10-30 01:30:07 <brucewagner> hello there   :-)
192 2010-10-30 01:30:14 <Kiba> agorism action is more fun than politics
193 2010-10-30 01:30:37 <noagendamarket> hello bruce
194 2010-10-30 01:30:45 <theymos> I wonder how long the Bitcoin community can last before it is diluted by "average joes". Then I'll have to move to some other fringe thing, I suppose.
195 2010-10-30 01:31:23 <Kiba> theymos: I guess bitcoin is a proto-agorist economy
196 2010-10-30 01:31:33 <Kiba> the real agorist economy will emerge after that
197 2010-10-30 01:31:40 <noagendamarket> crypto-agorist...
198 2010-10-30 01:31:53 <Kiba> maybe with bitcoins but with real crypto-action instead of being sorta crypto-anarchist
199 2010-10-30 01:31:58 <Kiba> but not really
200 2010-10-30 01:32:04 <Kiba> we aren't exactly hiding our identity
201 2010-10-30 01:32:50 <noagendamarket> the test will come when or if they prosecute a user
202 2010-10-30 01:33:01 <noagendamarket> for doing nothing wrong
203 2010-10-30 01:33:49 <Kiba> the thing is, it's going to be hard to convince the masses to follow a fringe point of view
204 2010-10-30 01:33:56 <Kiba> and it's hard to do a revolution right
205 2010-10-30 01:33:57 <noagendamarket> violent revolution is pretty much out of the question
206 2010-10-30 01:34:27 <genjix> theymos: why? it'd only be a good thing :)
207 2010-10-30 01:34:37 <genjix> try #esperanto if you want something
208 2010-10-30 01:34:42 <genjix> fringe
209 2010-10-30 01:34:46 <brucewagner> if they want to stop something, they can ALWAYS find some obscure law and misuse it. Look what happened to eGold guy.
210 2010-10-30 01:35:10 <Kiba> bitcoin is decentralized. That it's strength
211 2010-10-30 01:35:22 <noagendamarket> bruce egold was centralized
212 2010-10-30 01:35:35 <Kiba> they may be able to prosecute more prominent members of the community though
213 2010-10-30 01:36:10 <noagendamarket> for what?
214 2010-10-30 01:36:15 <theymos> I hope "Satoshi" actually is a pseudonym -- he'll be the first target.
215 2010-10-30 01:36:18 <Kiba> noagendamarket: to make an example of
216 2010-10-30 01:36:44 <appamatto> Well, bittorrent never really got smashed
217 2010-10-30 01:36:45 <Kiba> Satoshi is a popular figure in the future though
218 2010-10-30 01:36:56 <genjix> brucewagner: they can never stop it
219 2010-10-30 01:36:58 <appamatto> So as long as people are using bitcoin for legitimate purposes, it seems okay
220 2010-10-30 01:37:01 <noagendamarket> the pirate bay still operates
221 2010-10-30 01:37:02 <genjix> look what happened to PGP
222 2010-10-30 01:37:07 <Kiba> appamatto: they tried to stop pirate bay and.....
223 2010-10-30 01:37:11 <Kiba> other trackers
224 2010-10-30 01:37:12 <appamatto> What happened to PGP?
225 2010-10-30 01:37:12 <theymos> genjix: I can't imagine that a Bitcoin used by the majority would be a Bitcoin I would be enthusiastic about.
226 2010-10-30 01:37:14 <Kiba> didn't really work
227 2010-10-30 01:37:30 <genjix> theymos: why is that?
228 2010-10-30 01:37:35 <Kiba> theymos: the thing is, you build up relationship with fellow crypto-anarchists
229 2010-10-30 01:37:41 <Kiba> in the early stage
230 2010-10-30 01:37:53 <Kiba> and some of them will still be the nexus of the bitcoin economy
231 2010-10-30 01:37:55 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_investigation
232 2010-10-30 01:38:08 <genjix> Zimmermann challenged these regulations in a curious way. He published the entire source code of PGP in a hardback book,[12] via MIT Press, which was distributed and sold widely. Anybody wishing to build their own copy of PGP could buy the $60 book, cut off the covers, separate the pages, and scan them using an OCR program, creating a set of source code text files. One could then build the application using the freely available GNU Compiler Collect
233 2010-10-30 01:39:04 <Kiba> anybody can download a copy of a bitcoin client and examine its source code
234 2010-10-30 01:39:11 <Kiba> bitcoin is entirely an open project from the very beginning
235 2010-10-30 01:39:43 <genjix> point is they tried to ban PGP and failed
236 2010-10-30 01:39:46 <Kiba> what we need to do is to build allies with hackers...
237 2010-10-30 01:40:05 <genjix> you're on a hacker network
238 2010-10-30 01:40:12 <Kiba> FSF, EFF, CCC, and all the hacker charities
239 2010-10-30 01:40:15 <genjix> what do you mean 'build allies with hackers...' :p
240 2010-10-30 01:40:17 <genjix> ah ok
241 2010-10-30 01:40:27 <genjix> cool
242 2010-10-30 01:40:41 <Kiba> actually I should be donating my funds to the CCC...and then email them
243 2010-10-30 01:41:06 <Kiba> we still need to investigate why the EFF still have not post bitcoin address on their help page yet
244 2010-10-30 01:42:08 <Kiba> the majority of hackers aren't anarchistic in the slightest at all..I guess...
245 2010-10-30 01:42:37 <Kiba> actually, if you can get Peter Thiel to back the bitcoin mission, that'll be ideal too
246 2010-10-30 01:43:00 <genjix> i thought a large majority of hackers were anarchist squatters :p
247 2010-10-30 01:43:41 <Kiba> most of them love capitalism very much
248 2010-10-30 01:43:51 <Kiba> they have libertarian vibes
249 2010-10-30 01:44:24 <appamatto> I don't really like the word hacker
250 2010-10-30 01:44:39 <Kiba> Hacker is now pretty mainstream
251 2010-10-30 01:44:40 <appamatto> All the hacking books at borders are about breaking into systems
252 2010-10-30 01:44:45 <Kiba> even mythbusters read Hacker News
253 2010-10-30 01:44:56 <appamatto> but I think most people in this community use hacker to mean a computer programmer
254 2010-10-30 01:47:39 <Kiba> more than that though
255 2010-10-30 01:48:44 <genjix> yeah i do
256 2010-10-30 01:49:27 <Kiba> I should email ESR sometime
257 2010-10-30 01:53:40 <genjix> how about no
258 2010-10-30 01:53:43 <genjix> the guy is a prick
259 2010-10-30 01:56:42 <Kiba> genjix: why?
260 2010-10-30 01:57:08 <Kiba> he's an ancap like us
261 2010-10-30 01:57:27 <Kiba> rms is just a socialist moderate
262 2010-10-30 02:02:55 <genjix> hes rascist
263 2010-10-30 02:03:03 <genjix> ancap like you, not me :p
264 2010-10-30 02:03:27 <theymos> Who is ESR?
265 2010-10-30 02:04:04 <appamatto> Raymond?
266 2010-10-30 02:04:11 <noagendamarket> Peter Thiel might just create his own blockchain and call it paycoin lol
267 2010-10-30 02:04:21 <appamatto> of nethack and Cathedral and Bazaar fame?
268 2010-10-30 02:05:37 <Kiba> he also coded for wesnoth
269 2010-10-30 02:10:50 <Diablo-D3> hmm
270 2010-10-30 02:10:55 <Diablo-D3> my program simply isnt fast enough
271 2010-10-30 02:11:24 <Kiba> time to sleep when tired
272 2010-10-30 02:37:04 <Diablo-D3> [12:04:21] <appamatto> of nethack and Cathedral and Bazaar fame?
273 2010-10-30 02:37:10 <Diablo-D3> fetchmail too
274 2010-10-30 02:37:16 <Diablo-D3> and his famous hate of esound
275 2010-10-30 02:47:00 <genjix> his hate of brown people
276 2010-10-30 02:56:57 <Diablo-D3> hahaha oh wow
277 2010-10-30 02:57:09 <Diablo-D3> since my miner is all in one file
278 2010-10-30 02:57:21 <Diablo-D3> and all the classes are inner classes of the main class
279 2010-10-30 02:57:30 <Diablo-D3> there is only one public in the ENTIRE program
280 2010-10-30 02:57:47 <Diablo-D3> and thats public static void main.
281 2010-10-30 03:17:56 <altamic> hello folks any body awake here?
282 2010-10-30 03:19:15 <theymos> Hi.
283 2010-10-30 03:19:18 <altamic> over the long run it is correct to say that
284 2010-10-30 03:19:22 <altamic> Bitcoin is a system aimed in providing monetary integrity by the constant money stock
285 2010-10-30 03:19:34 <altamic> hi theymos
286 2010-10-30 03:19:49 <altamic> able to allocate scarcity-units relative to all other holders
287 2010-10-30 03:20:13 <altamic> and  it lacks of necessity of a central administration system
288 2010-10-30 03:21:29 <altamic> and since money is a representation mean for scarcity
289 2010-10-30 03:21:58 <altamic> a bitcon have the needed properties
290 2010-10-30 03:22:13 <altamic> to be effectively used as a mean of payment
291 2010-10-30 03:22:14 <altamic> ?
292 2010-10-30 03:22:25 <theymos> Yes.
293 2010-10-30 03:23:23 <altamic> moreover
294 2010-10-30 03:24:02 <altamic> by the fact that it lacks a central administration system
295 2010-10-30 03:24:16 <altamic> the nice side effect
296 2010-10-30 03:24:31 <altamic> it can be debased
297 2010-10-30 03:24:38 <altamic> arbitrarily
298 2010-10-30 03:25:00 <altamic> *it cannot*
299 2010-10-30 03:25:07 <altamic> sorry
300 2010-10-30 03:25:18 <altamic> is that right?
301 2010-10-30 03:27:11 <theymos> It is true for people using the current software. If you use a client with different rules, different rules will be applied.
302 2010-10-30 03:28:02 <altamic> could you  explain which kind of rules are present, please?
303 2010-10-30 03:28:21 <altamic> I am reading the code
304 2010-10-30 03:28:28 <altamic> *still*
305 2010-10-30 03:28:46 <altamic> it seems fairly complex
306 2010-10-30 03:29:35 <altamic> but the paper helped me in understanding the basic tenet
307 2010-10-30 03:30:42 <theymos> Only a certain number of bitcoins can be created per block, and this is halved every 210,000 blocks. This leads to a situation where, no matter the precision (currently 8 decimals, but maybe more later), there will never quite be 21 million bitcoins. Hopefully this will never happen, but a version of Bitcoin could be released that breaks the rules but still acknowledges all previous transactions. Old clients would ignore this version, but it cou
308 2010-10-30 03:31:11 <Diablo-D3> an inner class in a class.... which itself is an inner class inside a class.....  which is inside another class....  which is inside the main class.
309 2010-10-30 03:31:21 <theymos> And there are various rules about transaction/block processing and stuff. There's some info on the wiki.
310 2010-10-30 03:31:22 <Diablo-D3> science, what doesn't it do
311 2010-10-30 03:36:25 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: It doesn't make optimal ethics decisions.
312 2010-10-30 03:41:03 <altamic> ok thanks theymos
313 2010-10-30 03:41:34 <altamic> I am in the phase of acquiring the some knowledge
314 2010-10-30 03:42:11 <altamic> by the way I deem to be useful to fix some concepts into a sort of glossary
315 2010-10-30 03:42:33 <altamic> I hope to help in this
316 2010-10-30 03:42:39 <altamic> since I am a newcomer
317 2010-10-30 03:42:44 <altamic> at this moment
318 2010-10-30 03:42:55 <theymos> Like this? http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=bitcoin_vocabulary
319 2010-10-30 03:43:19 <altamic> yes
320 2010-10-30 03:43:42 <altamic> thank you
321 2010-10-30 03:44:02 <altamic> in my mind
322 2010-10-30 03:45:23 <altamic> I would like to be able to separate the technical details of the implementation that lead to good properties of the system
323 2010-10-30 03:45:26 <altamic> and list them
324 2010-10-30 03:45:53 <altamic> but maybe I just shut up and read
325 2010-10-30 03:46:04 <altamic> *should*
326 2010-10-30 03:46:12 <theymos> The wiki is open, so you can create a page like that if you want. You just need to register.
327 2010-10-30 03:46:18 <altamic> great
328 2010-10-30 03:46:25 <altamic> I am going to do that
329 2010-10-30 03:49:59 <altamic> sorry for my english
330 2010-10-30 03:53:14 <theymos> If you like, you can translate some pages on the wiki into your language. This has been done for a few languages; for example: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=ru:getting_started
331 2010-10-30 04:10:52 <Diablo-D3> fuck I broke something again
332 2010-10-30 04:11:05 <Diablo-D3> its reading 95 mhash
333 2010-10-30 04:20:48 <Diablo-D3> oh thank god
334 2010-10-30 04:20:49 <Diablo-D3> I did break it
335 2010-10-30 04:21:19 <altamic> translated the first paragraph go getting started into italian
336 2010-10-30 04:21:29 <altamic> s/go/of/
337 2010-10-30 04:21:44 <Diablo-D3> well, lets see here
338 2010-10-30 04:22:13 <altamic> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=it:getting_started
339 2010-10-30 04:22:17 <Diablo-D3> m0's host: X is around 50%, python is around 50%
340 2010-10-30 04:23:01 <altamic> ah python my second favorite language after ruby
341 2010-10-30 04:23:54 <Diablo-D3> actually, its closer to 40% each
342 2010-10-30 04:24:11 <Diablo-D3> and Im getting around 62 mhash
343 2010-10-30 04:25:35 <jrabbit> mega hashes?
344 2010-10-30 04:25:39 <jrabbit> :(
345 2010-10-30 04:26:04 <Diablo-D3> my host: X is around 15%, java is around 60%, and Im getting around 55mhash
346 2010-10-30 04:26:15 <Diablo-D3> so clearly Im not raping it hard enough
347 2010-10-30 04:26:44 <Diablo-D3> actually, java is closer to 50
348 2010-10-30 04:29:32 <Diablo-D3> so
349 2010-10-30 04:29:42 <Diablo-D3> my host uses the same cpu time in the client
350 2010-10-30 04:29:49 <Diablo-D3> but far less in X
351 2010-10-30 05:28:44 <Diablo-D3> hmm
352 2010-10-30 05:28:47 <Diablo-D3> with much tweaking
353 2010-10-30 05:28:54 <Diablo-D3> Im now around 40/40 (like m0's)
354 2010-10-30 05:29:02 <Diablo-D3> but I get 63 mhash instead of his 62
355 2010-10-30 05:29:04 <Diablo-D3> so uh
356 2010-10-30 05:29:06 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit.
357 2010-10-30 05:34:51 <Keefe> mine uses ~4% cpu
358 2010-10-30 05:35:11 <Diablo-D3> you're not using stream sdk 2.2 right?
359 2010-10-30 05:35:11 <Keefe> including X
360 2010-10-30 05:35:15 <Keefe> 2.1
361 2010-10-30 05:35:18 <Diablo-D3> yeah thats why
362 2010-10-30 05:35:35 <Keefe> 11950 btc gen'd so far :)
363 2010-10-30 05:35:42 <Diablo-D3> so the only thing Ive been able to do is squeeze another mhash out of it
364 2010-10-30 05:37:51 <Keefe> that's pretty good, to improve on m0's code, even if only 1.5%
365 2010-10-30 05:38:03 <Diablo-D3> I didnt improve on his though
366 2010-10-30 05:38:08 <Diablo-D3> Im using his kernel basically unmodified
367 2010-10-30 05:38:22 <Keefe> improved the host code?
368 2010-10-30 05:38:29 <Diablo-D3> rewrote the host code from the ground up
369 2010-10-30 05:38:37 <joe_1> host code
370 2010-10-30 05:38:50 <lfm> the python stuff
371 2010-10-30 05:39:00 <Diablo-D3> except mines in java
372 2010-10-30 05:39:21 <joe_1> a bitcoin client written in java?
373 2010-10-30 05:39:28 <Diablo-D3> not client, just miner
374 2010-10-30 05:39:50 <joe_1> and it outperforms the same code written in other languages?
375 2010-10-30 05:40:23 <lfm> it outperforms the python atm
376 2010-10-30 05:40:24 <Diablo-D3> by 1.6%
377 2010-10-30 05:40:25 <Keefe> so there's gpu miners written with python (m0), java (diablo), c (art), and c# (me)
378 2010-10-30 05:40:29 <Diablo-D3> lfm: no, outperforms
379 2010-10-30 05:41:13 <Diablo-D3> lfm: we both use about 40% X, 40% host, but I get 63 mhash, his is ... hrm
380 2010-10-30 05:41:15 <Diablo-D3> lemme go measure
381 2010-10-30 05:41:15 <lfm> Keefe, the actual miner is written in opencl Id say, same as the python one
382 2010-10-30 05:41:21 <joe_1> i would focus more on writing things you can deploy on university and public computers
383 2010-10-30 05:41:26 <Keefe> semantics
384 2010-10-30 05:41:35 <Diablo-D3> his about 62
385 2010-10-30 05:41:48 <Diablo-D3> and its easier to make his drop into the 50s
386 2010-10-30 05:41:57 <Keefe> i'm referring to the "host code", the part that interfaces between the opencl kernel and the bitcoin node
387 2010-10-30 05:42:09 <Diablo-D3> mine is rather shit proof
388 2010-10-30 05:43:19 <Diablo-D3> I think mine would perform better on a better opencl impl though
389 2010-10-30 05:44:51 <lfm> you using ati 10.10?
390 2010-10-30 05:45:01 <Diablo-D3> no, 10.9
391 2010-10-30 05:47:34 <lfm> so for "a better opnecl impl" this is some hypothetical future impl as oposed to some current real impl?
392 2010-10-30 05:47:42 <Diablo-D3> yeah
393 2010-10-30 05:48:27 <Diablo-D3> this would fly on hardware that can run multiple kernels concurrently
394 2010-10-30 05:49:04 <Keefe> what would be the point of that?
395 2010-10-30 05:49:25 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: unsynchronized states across CUs
396 2010-10-30 05:49:47 <Diablo-D3> where, say, the CUs arent on the same chip
397 2010-10-30 05:50:08 <Keefe> just run another thread for an additional chop
398 2010-10-30 05:50:29 <Diablo-D3> with mine, you wouldnt need to.
399 2010-10-30 05:50:30 <Keefe> or another process, or just another command queue
400 2010-10-30 05:50:56 <Diablo-D3> although, mine handles multiple pieces of hardware fine too
401 2010-10-30 05:51:56 <Diablo-D3> last time I tried, it went fucking slow
402 2010-10-30 05:52:19 <Keefe> i wouldn't bother running opencl on a cpu when there's already good native x86 code
403 2010-10-30 05:52:30 <Diablo-D3> neither would I
404 2010-10-30 05:52:50 <Diablo-D3> by itself it does around 2.1 mhash, where bitcoin's native does 2.9
405 2010-10-30 05:54:21 <Diablo-D3> yeah its still performing like shit
406 2010-10-30 05:55:44 <Diablo-D3> it shouldnt have taken me like 5 days to write 381 lines of code
407 2010-10-30 05:56:19 <Keefe> why didn't you just stick with m0's code?
408 2010-10-30 05:56:25 <Diablo-D3> I dont like python.
409 2010-10-30 06:00:10 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: I also, now, know my code inside and out
410 2010-10-30 06:01:02 <Keefe> there is currently a 10% arbitrage opportunity between BCM and MTG using LR
411 2010-10-30 06:01:24 <Diablo-D3> oh, and btw
412 2010-10-30 06:01:30 <Diablo-D3> re: better opencl impls
413 2010-10-30 06:01:37 <Keefe> for anyone willing to wait until mtgox has more LR available for withdrawal
414 2010-10-30 06:01:52 <Diablo-D3> I suspect IBM's opencl impl for cell spus may run my code insanely well
415 2010-10-30 06:02:33 <Keefe> it's not exactly "your code" in that context
416 2010-10-30 06:02:49 <Diablo-D3> as in, my host would run m0's kernel faster
417 2010-10-30 06:02:49 <Keefe> it's m0's kernel
418 2010-10-30 06:03:34 <Diablo-D3> and I have some ideas for his kernel I need to try out
419 2010-10-30 06:03:51 <Keefe> ah, as long as you can use the same java code on ibm cell
420 2010-10-30 06:04:57 <Diablo-D3> theres something rather retarded going on in ati's compiler
421 2010-10-30 06:04:59 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure what it is
422 2010-10-30 06:06:38 <Keefe> their compiler is probably lousy at optimising. but what are you noticing?
423 2010-10-30 06:06:54 <Diablo-D3> its not meeting art's estimate of 75 mhash >_>
424 2010-10-30 06:07:08 <Keefe> how does the cell compare with ati's 5xxx series, in terms of gflops/watt?
425 2010-10-30 06:07:13 <Keefe> and /$ ?
426 2010-10-30 06:07:26 <Diablo-D3> dunno
427 2010-10-30 06:07:34 <Diablo-D3> theres no way to really measure that
428 2010-10-30 06:07:47 <Diablo-D3> unless you buy standalone cells SPUs, but IBM dont make those
429 2010-10-30 06:08:07 <lfm> if you're bitcoin mining gflops are really misleading
430 2010-10-30 06:08:08 <Diablo-D3> there is someone who does, but outside dev kits, you cant really get them on a pci-e card
431 2010-10-30 06:08:08 <Keefe> not that flops is the best way to predict bitcoin miner performance
432 2010-10-30 06:08:31 <Keefe> ya, what lfm said
433 2010-10-30 06:08:42 <Diablo-D3> its not really worth persuing
434 2010-10-30 06:09:12 <lfm> ya since sony disabled linux on the ps3 no one cares about cell any more
435 2010-10-30 06:09:22 <Diablo-D3> at least, not until IBM makes some giant POWER cluster that combines a POWER7 and over 9000 cell spus
436 2010-10-30 06:09:32 <Diablo-D3> lfm: no one cares about the ps3
437 2010-10-30 06:09:44 <Diablo-D3> if you're working with Cells, you go buy real ones
438 2010-10-30 06:09:59 <lfm> no ones gonna let me play with real ones
439 2010-10-30 06:10:20 <Diablo-D3> ps3 cell = an in order execution, nearly cacheless, 3ghz G3, single core + 7 SPUs
440 2010-10-30 06:10:59 <Diablo-D3> real cell = normal G5 complete with altivec, dual core, lots of cache, 8 SPUs.... and you buy them dual socket, so 2* all that.
441 2010-10-30 06:11:03 <Diablo-D3> well, at least dual socket
442 2010-10-30 06:11:25 <Diablo-D3> and they run linux
443 2010-10-30 06:11:49 <lfm> price performance the ps3 was not bad
444 2010-10-30 06:11:56 <Diablo-D3> they're very ungodly expensive
445 2010-10-30 06:12:01 <Diablo-D3> but if you're doing cell work, they fly
446 2010-10-30 06:12:37 <nathan7> o:
447 2010-10-30 06:13:07 <Diablo-D3> I suspect, however, you're still better off buying 5970s.
448 2010-10-30 06:13:32 <lfm> well ya, the ps3 is getting old now by comparison
449 2010-10-30 06:13:50 <Diablo-D3> if you didnt understand what I said, the ps3 is not a good example of cell technology.
450 2010-10-30 06:14:23 <lfm> Diablo-D3, its just a cheap consumer level example of cell tech. its not really that bad
451 2010-10-30 06:14:37 <Diablo-D3> thats like saying powerpc is a cheap consumer level example of POWER.
452 2010-10-30 06:14:59 <Diablo-D3> yet some of the largest superclusters in the world are POWER, not x86.
453 2010-10-30 06:15:15 <lfm> sonys not gonna sell $5000 game platformas, what are you asking for?
454 2010-10-30 06:15:35 <Diablo-D3> Im not going to be mining on ps3s, so I dont care what sony does.
455 2010-10-30 06:16:09 <lfm> well not since they tossed linux in the trash anyway
456 2010-10-30 06:56:40 <Diablo-D3> fuck! I broke shit again!
457 2010-10-30 06:56:53 <Diablo-D3> it now says Im doing more than art
458 2010-10-30 06:58:11 <Diablo-D3> 660170 khash/sec^C
459 2010-10-30 06:58:14 <Diablo-D3> I dont think so tim
460 2010-10-30 07:00:18 <nathan7> :o
461 2010-10-30 07:05:27 <Diablo-D3> um
462 2010-10-30 07:05:33 <Diablo-D3> I think I crashed my video card
463 2010-10-30 07:05:38 <nathan7> o:
464 2010-10-30 07:05:43 <nathan7> Congrats =p
465 2010-10-30 07:06:03 <nathan7> I once crashed a pen
466 2010-10-30 07:06:38 <Diablo-D3> well fuck I took the whole machine down
467 2010-10-30 07:10:30 <Diablo-D3> so I guess that was impressive
468 2010-10-30 07:10:35 <Diablo-D3> I blew up a >30 day uptime
469 2010-10-30 07:11:43 <Diablo-D3> oh, and debian doesnt have 10.10 yet
470 2010-10-30 07:14:39 <Diablo-D3> lets try this again
471 2010-10-30 07:17:24 <Diablo-D3> holy shit I have magic fuck you code!
472 2010-10-30 07:42:34 <nathan7> :o
473 2010-10-30 07:42:52 <nathan7> How'd you mean, 10.10?
474 2010-10-30 07:59:35 <lfm> ati released ver 10.10 of thier driver, its not on debian or ubuntu packages yet tho
475 2010-10-30 08:21:39 <BreadMonster> What is BitCoin?
476 2010-10-30 08:35:07 <Diablo-D3> well this is interesting
477 2010-10-30 08:35:26 <appamatto> Bitcoin is a peer to peer cryptocurrency
478 2010-10-30 08:35:31 <Diablo-D3> appamatto: he left
479 2010-10-30 08:38:21 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, my java host is now using somewhere between 15 and 50% cpu
480 2010-10-30 08:38:26 <Diablo-D3> and X is using between 5 and 10%
481 2010-10-30 08:39:09 <Diablo-D3> and the same with m0's python client
482 2010-10-30 08:39:13 <Diablo-D3> so what the fuck.
483 2010-10-30 08:39:38 <Diablo-D3> and his is getting around 63, mine is getting around 65
484 2010-10-30 08:46:14 <Diablo-D3> Im going to go eat something
485 2010-10-30 08:47:35 <Diablo-D3> when I come back Ill try the fuck you code again
486 2010-10-30 09:21:37 <Diablo-D3> back
487 2010-10-30 09:22:43 <Diablo-D3> sweet
488 2010-10-30 09:22:46 <Diablo-D3> it didnt blow my machine up this time
489 2010-10-30 10:14:57 <Diablo-D3> well
490 2010-10-30 10:15:03 <Diablo-D3> I cant get this going any faster
491 2010-10-30 10:26:06 <Kiba> working on your GPU farm?
492 2010-10-30 10:26:18 <Diablo-D3> a single 4850 is not a farm
493 2010-10-30 10:26:27 <Diablo-D3> its more like a backyard garden
494 2010-10-30 10:27:08 <appamatto> Diablo-D3, the current opengl/cuda versions aren't enough?
495 2010-10-30 10:27:13 <Diablo-D3> okay, on difficulty 1, how fast does it take to do 50 blocks at 225 mhash/sec?
496 2010-10-30 13:31:12 <brocktice> Are any of you using the mybitcoin merchant tools?
497 2010-10-30 13:41:27 <Diablo-D3> and there it goes
498 2010-10-30 13:41:32 <Diablo-D3> radeon locked up
499 2010-10-30 13:44:02 <Diablo-D3> going to be
500 2010-10-30 13:45:10 <Kiba> brocktice: kinda
501 2010-10-30 13:45:17 <Kiba> but I ain't usign their PHP crapzilla
502 2010-10-30 13:46:57 <brocktice> Ah
503 2010-10-30 13:47:03 <brocktice> I need to include a shipping address
504 2010-10-30 13:47:06 <brocktice> but I can't figure out how
505 2010-10-30 13:47:12 <brocktice> I emailed them, but I thought I'd check here.
506 2010-10-30 13:47:44 <Kiba> I wasn't aware that you need to give them your shipping address
507 2010-10-30 13:54:02 <brocktice> I am shipping a physical product
508 2010-10-30 13:54:06 <brocktice> So I need to collect that.
509 2010-10-30 13:54:14 <Kiba> oh
510 2010-10-30 13:54:17 <Kiba> what will you be shipping?
511 2010-10-30 13:54:21 <brocktice> my night libhts
512 2010-10-30 13:54:23 <brocktice> *lights
513 2010-10-30 13:54:27 <brocktice> http://bluecanarynightlight.com
514 2010-10-30 13:54:30 <Kiba> ah
515 2010-10-30 13:56:32 <Kiba> good luck with yours
516 2010-10-30 13:57:35 <brocktice> Thanks
517 2010-10-30 13:57:55 <brocktice> Only had one oder so far but he prodded me to use the shopping cart
518 2010-10-30 14:01:58 <brocktice> Anybody water cooling for mining?
519 2010-10-30 14:02:07 <brocktice> Seems like a logical next step
520 2010-10-30 14:04:13 <Kiba> stirling engine to recycle the heat!
521 2010-10-30 14:04:27 <brocktice> :)
522 2010-10-30 14:04:30 <Kiba> and reduce the cost of electricity!
523 2010-10-30 14:15:48 <nathan7> o:
524 2010-10-30 14:16:46 <nathan7> That looks like the kind of thing I should make when I finish my CNC
525 2010-10-30 14:17:07 <nathan7> but it isn't even in prototyping yet
526 2010-10-30 14:17:38 <brocktice> what thing?
527 2010-10-30 14:17:46 <brocktice> A stirling engine?
528 2010-10-30 14:18:25 <nathan7> No, fancy night lights or something
529 2010-10-30 14:18:28 <brocktice> Oh
530 2010-10-30 14:18:34 <brocktice> Yeah I started with a rapid prototyping service
531 2010-10-30 14:18:40 <brocktice> then made a mold from that
532 2010-10-30 14:18:47 <brocktice> But then it was taking too much time
533 2010-10-30 14:18:53 <brocktice> So now they are injection molded in China
534 2010-10-30 14:18:54 <nathan7> Mhm, with a 3D printer I can make my own prototypes
535 2010-10-30 14:19:05 <brocktice> yeah I was thinking about buying/building a RepRap or makerbot
536 2010-10-30 14:19:24 <nathan7> I am working on a new 3D printer :D
537 2010-10-30 14:19:33 <nathan7> I'm trying to stay under ???100
538 2010-10-30 14:19:40 <brocktice> good luck!
539 2010-10-30 14:19:43 <nathan7> And that's all the money I have for it too
540 2010-10-30 14:19:53 <brocktice> Everything I could find was in the US$700-1000 range.
541 2010-10-30 14:19:57 <nathan7> Yeah.
542 2010-10-30 14:20:19 <nathan7> I might sell them if I can get funding to invest in making a few
543 2010-10-30 14:20:30 <brocktice> You'd have to do a lot of finishing work for something like that night light
544 2010-10-30 14:20:35 <nathan7> Mhm
545 2010-10-30 14:20:40 <brocktice> needs a lot of polishing
546 2010-10-30 14:20:46 <nathan7> Could also print a mold
547 2010-10-30 14:22:06 <genjix> make a projector
548 2010-10-30 14:22:09 <genjix> a lot cheaper
549 2010-10-30 14:22:12 <genjix> sorry
550 2010-10-30 14:22:19 <genjix> i meant touch screen tabletop
551 2010-10-30 14:22:27 <nathan7> ?!
552 2010-10-30 14:22:35 <nathan7> How is that related to 3D printers?
553 2010-10-30 14:22:48 <genjix> it isn't :) But it's a cheaper/cooler thing to make
554 2010-10-30 14:22:56 <nathan7> 3D printers are cooler
555 2010-10-30 14:23:02 <genjix> no way
556 2010-10-30 14:23:03 <nathan7> they make things
557 2010-10-30 14:23:16 <genjix> we live in the digital era dyude
558 2010-10-30 14:23:37 <nathan7> So?
559 2010-10-30 14:24:21 <genjix> nevermind, not completely serious :) do whatever you like :)
560 2010-10-30 14:30:32 <brocktice> Interesting, so, if one wants to pay off a mining machine with two 5970s, and price electricity at about US$0.10/kW-hour, the minimum bitcoin price should be about US$0.10.
561 2010-10-30 14:30:41 <brocktice> That is, pay it off within one month.
562 2010-10-30 14:30:51 <brocktice> If it's amortized over a year it'd be less.
563 2010-10-30 14:35:21 <nathan7> genjix: I assume you only eat digital food on a digital plate with digital cutlery?
564 2010-10-30 14:35:51 <genjix> and i have a digital girlfriend
565 2010-10-30 14:36:21 <nathan7> digital and imaginary are two different concepts.
566 2010-10-30 14:37:59 <genjix> excuse me i now have to go cook some of that digital food now
567 2010-10-30 14:38:24 <genjix> cook some delicious electron cake
568 2010-10-30 14:41:12 <brocktice> mmmm cake
569 2010-10-30 14:53:03 <nathan7> Cake!
570 2010-10-30 14:53:08 <nathan7> but the cake is a lie
571 2010-10-30 14:53:13 <nathan7> (obligatory cliche)
572 2010-10-30 14:53:30 <brocktice> Bitcoins are really like virtual cake.
573 2010-10-30 14:53:44 <brocktice> (obligatory forum reference)
574 2010-10-30 14:55:26 <nathan7> =p
575 2010-10-30 17:31:41 <brocktice> kiba: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9051/msi_employs_stirling_engine_theory/index.html
576 2010-10-30 17:33:54 <kiba> hmm
577 2010-10-30 17:34:01 <kiba> I seem to have generated a block by luck
578 2010-10-30 17:34:55 <edcba> usually that's how they are generated
579 2010-10-30 17:37:10 <kiba> ;math calc 50 * 0.19
580 2010-10-30 17:37:23 <kiba> bitbot is not alive...again
581 2010-10-30 17:37:26 <kiba> how annoying!
582 2010-10-30 17:37:58 <edcba> you can use calc.exe :)
583 2010-10-30 17:38:07 <edcba> or your head
584 2010-10-30 17:38:36 <gribble> 9.5
585 2010-10-30 17:38:36 <theymos> ;;math calc 50 * 0.19
586 2010-10-30 17:39:59 <sneak> hi guys
587 2010-10-30 17:40:11 <sneak> what's the deal with a 5970 showing up as two adapters?
588 2010-10-30 17:40:21 <sneak> it only shows gpu load on one.
589 2010-10-30 17:40:34 <sneak> i tried running a second poclbm on the second one, but it didn't go very fast at all.
590 2010-10-30 17:44:06 <kiba> sneak: trying to make money off bitcoin mining?
591 2010-10-30 17:50:42 <sneak> just a little
592 2010-10-30 17:50:46 <sneak> it's more that i think opencl is neat
593 2010-10-30 17:50:58 <sneak> if it can pay for the video card+electricity in a month or two of running i'm happy
594 2010-10-30 17:51:18 <kiba> hmm
595 2010-10-30 17:51:30 <kiba> ccc's account is already worth 93.91 bucks
596 2010-10-30 17:51:34 <nathan7> o:
597 2010-10-30 17:51:48 <sneak> kiba: are you a member?
598 2010-10-30 17:51:58 <kiba> no, I am an escrow
599 2010-10-30 17:52:05 <sneak> oh
600 2010-10-30 17:52:08 <kiba> just like I was an escrow for the EFF
601 2010-10-30 17:53:57 <kiba> would it be possible for an American to be part of the CCC?
602 2010-10-30 17:54:09 <sneak> dunno
603 2010-10-30 17:54:14 <sneak> i'm american, i could try
604 2010-10-30 17:54:26 <sneak> i think it's more "berlin resident" than anything
605 2010-10-30 17:55:55 <edcba> why ccc has an account ?
606 2010-10-30 17:55:55 <kiba> well, we'll see how it goes
607 2010-10-30 17:56:20 <kiba> edcba: it's a mybitcoin account for the ccc
608 2010-10-30 17:56:25 <T_X-> kiba: by the way, it's great that you are managing those and the according group on fivegrinder. I appreciate it very much!
609 2010-10-30 17:56:44 <kiba> T_X-: gottach ask mtgox on how to spend it though
610 2010-10-30 17:57:04 <kiba> and I don't think the group on the fivegrinder benefit from such a democractic mode of management
611 2010-10-30 17:58:37 <kiba> but ya know, mtgox thinks it's fine
612 2010-10-30 17:58:44 <sneak> kiba: you run mybitcoin?
613 2010-10-30 17:58:51 <kiba> sneak: where you get that idea?
614 2010-10-30 17:58:56 <sneak> .:21:56:21:. <kiba> edcba: it's a mybitcoin account for the ccc
615 2010-10-30 17:59:04 <kiba> Um. No.
616 2010-10-30 17:59:07 <kiba> I am just an escrow
617 2010-10-30 17:59:09 <sneak> .:21:51:30:. <kiba> ccc's account is already worth 93.91 bucks
618 2010-10-30 17:59:41 <kiba> mybitcoin has very useful features
619 2010-10-30 18:01:31 <sneak> oh, i realize that
620 2010-10-30 18:01:40 <sneak> i am making a bitcoin facebook application that has similar functionality.
621 2010-10-30 18:01:53 <sneak> i don't think that most bitcoin users will ever run their own client
622 2010-10-30 18:02:03 <kiba> true.
623 2010-10-30 18:03:13 <edcba> of course if you 'sell' bitcoin to facebook users
624 2010-10-30 18:03:40 <sneak> edcba: for a later version, i will try to tie into the facebook credit/in-app purchase system
625 2010-10-30 18:03:47 <edcba> now what is important is will cpu power comes from users or corps/groups
626 2010-10-30 18:03:59 <sneak> for now, i am just going to leverage the social graph to enable people to see who they know who has bitcoins for sale
627 2010-10-30 18:04:07 <sneak> buying bitcoins will for now have to be like buying drugs
628 2010-10-30 18:04:11 <sneak> you know a guy who knows a guy who can hook you up
629 2010-10-30 18:04:16 <sneak> as nobody wants to deal with chargeback risk
630 2010-10-30 18:04:21 <sneak> and normal people aren't gonna open LR accounts
631 2010-10-30 18:04:41 <edcba> what is required to open a LR account ?
632 2010-10-30 18:04:50 <sneak> not much
633 2010-10-30 18:04:57 <sneak> but it's a hassle, and it's an extra step
634 2010-10-30 18:05:02 <sneak> and then you still have to fund it
635 2010-10-30 18:05:06 <sneak> which is a second step
636 2010-10-30 18:05:42 <edcba> the funding thing is why cpu power may origin from basic users mainly :)
637 2010-10-30 18:06:27 <sneak> forget cpu power
638 2010-10-30 18:06:29 <sneak> forget generation
639 2010-10-30 18:06:36 <sneak> there will never be more than 500 people minting bitcoins ever
640 2010-10-30 18:06:42 <edcba> haha
641 2010-10-30 18:06:48 <sneak> ideally there will be 50,000 people using bitcoins by the end of the year.
642 2010-10-30 18:07:03 <kiba> so optimistic aqren't you?
643 2010-10-30 18:07:10 <edcba> 50k is a bit much
644 2010-10-30 18:07:19 <edcba> even ideally
645 2010-10-30 18:07:26 <sneak> edcba: did you ever give any thought to what happens to casual miners, even those with 5x high-end GPUs, when ONE crazy guy with a 50k node botnet decides to spike their cpus to 10% and do 300kh/sec on each one?
646 2010-10-30 18:07:27 <kiba> well, if you do that, I win 500 dollars in a bet
647 2010-10-30 18:07:46 <sneak> game over
648 2010-10-30 18:08:27 <kiba> and that will vindicate me...forever
649 2010-10-30 18:08:40 <kiba> I made a prediction
650 2010-10-30 18:08:43 <kiba> and win a bet
651 2010-10-30 18:10:01 <edcba> sneak: i really hope that one guy will wait for enough ppl generating to make his botnet stealthy...
652 2010-10-30 18:10:16 <kiba> the thing is
653 2010-10-30 18:10:18 <sneak> why wait?
654 2010-10-30 18:10:25 <kiba> it assume that somebody would want to make a botnet that actually do that
655 2010-10-30 18:10:28 <edcba> else i think he will just kill bitcoin in enfancy
656 2010-10-30 18:10:32 <sneak> kiba: the botnets already exist.
657 2010-10-30 18:10:38 <kiba> he can make far more money doing scams
658 2010-10-30 18:10:39 <sneak> edcba: that wouldn't kill anything
659 2010-10-30 18:10:44 <sneak> bitcoins already exist.
660 2010-10-30 18:10:46 <sneak> kiba: he can do both
661 2010-10-30 18:10:50 <kiba> bitcoins cannot be killed by mining
662 2010-10-30 18:10:51 <sneak> it's not like he's paying for the power
663 2010-10-30 18:11:02 <kiba> only by compromsing the integrity of bitcoins
664 2010-10-30 18:11:11 <edcba> if nobody can't get any bitcoin it may kill it
665 2010-10-30 18:11:28 <kiba> sneak: I am willing to bet that scamming people make far more money for him than generating bitcoins ever will
666 2010-10-30 18:11:34 <sneak> he can do both
667 2010-10-30 18:11:35 <sneak> obv
668 2010-10-30 18:11:43 <sneak> bitcoin generation is free for him.
669 2010-10-30 18:11:53 <edcba> kiba: scamming is harder than mining
670 2010-10-30 18:11:55 <kiba> for a much bigger drop in profit? No.
671 2010-10-30 18:12:04 <sneak> you don't need cpu for scamming
672 2010-10-30 18:12:09 <kiba> edcba: bitcoin is an arbritary number
673 2010-10-30 18:12:11 <edcba> mining is virtually 0 risk also
674 2010-10-30 18:12:42 <kiba> compared to what? spamming? Very few people has been actually caught
675 2010-10-30 18:13:19 <edcba> spam != scam :)
676 2010-10-30 18:13:49 <edcba> now is spamming more rewarding than minting...
677 2010-10-30 18:14:19 <kiba> if he want to make money, he have to sell his on the market
678 2010-10-30 18:14:33 <kiba> to convert into liberty reserve than dollars...
679 2010-10-30 18:14:42 <edcba> or wait for bitcoins to be common exchange
680 2010-10-30 18:14:46 <kiba> and he have to wait for a long time
681 2010-10-30 18:15:36 <sneak> selling bc for lr is no big deal
682 2010-10-30 18:15:39 <sneak> or for gold
683 2010-10-30 18:15:42 <sneak> i have done both
684 2010-10-30 18:16:11 <kiba> supply and demand...
685 2010-10-30 18:16:25 <sneak> supply of bitcoins is constant
686 2010-10-30 18:16:36 <sneak> 300 coins an hour.
687 2010-10-30 18:16:47 <sneak> for now, anyway.
688 2010-10-30 18:17:02 <sneak> it's not like there will be more blocks if a botnetter starts solving them all near-instantly
689 2010-10-30 18:17:09 <sneak> difficulty will spike within a few hours
690 2010-10-30 18:17:16 <sneak> as he solves batches of 1440 blocks in rapid succession
691 2010-10-30 18:17:55 <sneak> he'll still solve all of them, but they will only happen every 10 mins, by design :)
692 2010-10-30 18:18:25 <kiba> anyway, I don't care anyway
693 2010-10-30 18:18:30 <kiba> mining is not that big of a deal
694 2010-10-30 18:19:03 <edcba> but as for now it's the easiest to way to acquire bitcoins i think
695 2010-10-30 18:19:17 <edcba> s/to //
696 2010-10-30 18:19:29 <kiba> buying is the easiest way
697 2010-10-30 18:20:02 <edcba> if you are in hurry :)
698 2010-10-30 18:20:02 <sneak> kiba is right
699 2010-10-30 18:20:22 <sneak> edcba: hurry or no, whether you buy them for electricity or buy them from someone else who used electricity
700 2010-10-30 18:20:25 <sneak> ti's the same
701 2010-10-30 18:20:50 <edcba> still easier to just doubleclick some install program than entering your cc # on web :)
702 2010-10-30 18:22:37 <edcba> i shouldn't tell that but we need bitcoin pooling in some easy to install client
703 2010-10-30 18:22:57 <edcba> bitcoin mining pooling
704 2010-10-30 18:24:02 <kiba> you don't buy electricity
705 2010-10-30 18:24:04 <kiba> you buy bitcoins
706 2010-10-30 18:24:38 <edcba> it's easier to exchange bitcoins from electricity than from money
707 2010-10-30 18:24:48 <kiba> edcba: really?
708 2010-10-30 18:24:50 <edcba> ok you don't have same amount...
709 2010-10-30 18:25:07 <edcba> but that's a better way to introduce bitcoins
710 2010-10-30 18:25:23 <kiba> waiting 6 weeks is the worse way to get introduced to bitcoins
711 2010-10-30 18:25:33 <edcba> that's why i talked about pooling
712 2010-10-30 18:25:47 <edcba> get 0.0001 btc every hour or dunno how much
713 2010-10-30 18:26:15 <kiba> there's a better way, figure out how to assign easy freelance tasks that people can do for small amount of bitcoins
714 2010-10-30 18:26:23 <kiba> forget credit cards and bitcoin mining
715 2010-10-30 18:26:26 <edcba> i know how to do that
716 2010-10-30 18:26:33 <edcba> i don't know how make ppl pay :)
717 2010-10-30 18:26:43 <kiba> make people pay what?
718 2010-10-30 18:26:58 <edcba> if ppl could pay me running some client during one hour they'll do
719 2010-10-30 18:27:13 <edcba> kiba: advice on IRC :)
720 2010-10-30 18:27:17 <kiba> edcba: I don't know. Find information aobut X, write article Y, etc
721 2010-10-30 18:27:40 <edcba> no i just need them to acquire bitcoins smoothly
722 2010-10-30 18:27:57 <kiba> they might get it from video games
723 2010-10-30 18:27:59 <kiba> as gift
724 2010-10-30 18:28:00 <kiba> etc
725 2010-10-30 18:28:28 <edcba> not well known enough i think
726 2010-10-30 18:28:53 <edcba> if IRC ppl don't know about bitcoins i don't see gamers knowing it
727 2010-10-30 18:28:54 <kiba> well, the only way that bitcoin will take off is goods and services
728 2010-10-30 18:29:01 <edcba> of course
729 2010-10-30 18:29:11 <kiba> so you make video games and goods and services
730 2010-10-30 18:29:30 <kiba> if there's nothing to spend it on, why care at all?
731 2010-10-30 18:29:53 <edcba> i'm trying to promote bitcoins amongst programmers
732 2010-10-30 18:31:29 <edcba> but with no real way to acquire bitcoins besides buying them it can't be easy
733 2010-10-30 18:31:47 <edcba> and i don't want to give all my bitcoins lol
734 2010-10-30 18:34:22 <OneFixt> bitcoinfaucet!
735 2010-10-30 18:34:48 <kiba> most programemrs don't care unless they're crypto-anarchists
736 2010-10-30 18:35:06 <OneFixt> I think most programmers don't care about political labels.
737 2010-10-30 18:35:50 <kiba> umm...no.
738 2010-10-30 18:35:55 <kiba> they're just pragramatic individuals
739 2010-10-30 18:36:00 <kiba> at least lot of them
740 2010-10-30 18:36:14 <kiba> but they have automatic bias against strange stuff
741 2010-10-30 18:36:42 <kiba> just like an average man would do
742 2010-10-30 18:36:49 <kiba> "Are you nut?"
743 2010-10-30 18:36:57 <edcba> young programmers don't have much biases
744 2010-10-30 18:37:10 <kiba> sure they do
745 2010-10-30 18:37:25 <edcba> anyway there are always way to sell bitcoins to them
746 2010-10-30 18:37:42 <edcba> either it's "open source" either "make bucks quickly"
747 2010-10-30 18:38:55 <edcba> and there are also users that would happily run everything you give them as long as you make their msn running
748 2010-10-30 18:40:03 <kiba> I don't think they would use it
749 2010-10-30 18:40:19 <kiba> and the UI is too geeky for them too
750 2010-10-30 18:40:31 <edcba> they wouldn't use it if not enough programmers develop services for it
751 2010-10-30 18:40:56 <edcba> you need to acquire market shares progressively
752 2010-10-30 18:41:07 <edcba> less and less hardcore users
753 2010-10-30 18:41:13 <edcba> lesesr
754 2010-10-30 18:41:16 <edcba> lesser
755 2010-10-30 18:42:14 <edcba> anyway that's how i plan to do it if i'm motivated enough to write my own client :)
756 2010-10-30 18:47:36 <OneFixt> <-- borrowing BitCoins at 1% per Month (1/30 % per day)
757 2010-10-30 19:03:45 <lfm> kiba, I dont think you'd do that here, its freezing
758 2010-10-30 19:04:51 <altamic> hello folks
759 2010-10-30 19:04:56 <lfm> hi
760 2010-10-30 19:04:59 <kiba> lfm: No, I actually do it regularly
761 2010-10-30 19:05:11 <kiba> I think I am on day 9 in my daily barefoot running
762 2010-10-30 19:08:14 <lfm> youd come home with a couple ice cubes on the end of your legs
763 2010-10-30 19:08:54 <kiba> lfm: I think I'll wear a some kind of rubber shoe made specifically to allow me to do natural barefoot running
764 2010-10-30 19:09:01 <kiba> right now, I don't have money
765 2010-10-30 19:09:20 <kiba> in my opinion, it's much better to run barefoot
766 2010-10-30 19:09:25 <lfm> clue : it snowed two days ago
767 2010-10-30 19:09:39 <kiba> not my home
768 2010-10-30 19:10:15 <lfm> just saying its not practical for everyone
769 2010-10-30 19:10:36 <kiba> lfm: oh, I'll run with the proper shoe protection
770 2010-10-30 19:10:49 <kiba> there are different kind of running shoes made for that
771 2010-10-30 19:11:48 <lfm> kinda seems to me the barefoot thing is just another fad
772 2010-10-30 19:12:07 <kiba> lfm: fad? no, there's much evidence to support barefoot running
773 2010-10-30 19:12:22 <lfm> yup fad evidence
774 2010-10-30 19:12:37 <kiba> it's not that bad ;P
775 2010-10-30 19:13:11 <lfm> like evidence for atkins diets or whatever
776 2010-10-30 19:13:15 <kiba> on the contary, fertilizer stuff thrown out by homeowners is much more painful than the hard concrete
777 2010-10-30 19:13:37 <kiba> lfm: if you don't want to look at what people says, that's fine
778 2010-10-30 19:13:40 <kiba> but I am liking it
779 2010-10-30 19:13:41 <kiba> not hating it
780 2010-10-30 19:17:05 <lfm> I have listened to some of it and it just sounds like FAD to me, very flimsy, ignoring the value of shoes
781 2010-10-30 19:17:16 <kiba> even then, I'll just wear sandals
782 2010-10-30 19:17:17 <OneFixt> If done right, I have found barefoot running/walking to be very good.
783 2010-10-30 19:17:29 <kiba> lfm: I am not saying that shoes are valueless
784 2010-10-30 19:17:33 <kiba> they protect your feet
785 2010-10-30 19:17:43 <kiba> but the tradeoff is that I just watch the sidewalks
786 2010-10-30 19:18:03 <OneFixt> I use these: http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/
787 2010-10-30 19:18:16 <kiba> yes, if neccesary you wear one of those funky looking shoes
788 2010-10-30 19:18:20 <kiba> but I can't afford such shoes
789 2010-10-30 19:18:24 <kiba> yet
790 2010-10-30 19:20:18 <lfm> just wait, they'll get cheaper when the fad dies down, like crocks
791 2010-10-30 19:20:47 <OneFixt> There might be a fad aspect to it, but I am speaking purely from personal experience.
792 2010-10-30 19:21:03 <OneFixt> Having grown up actually walking barefoot much of the time, it is simply good for you.
793 2010-10-30 19:21:12 <kiba> my subjective experience suggests barefoot is pretty good
794 2010-10-30 19:22:23 <kiba> lfm: try running barefoot for a week
795 2010-10-30 19:22:27 <kiba> and see if you like it or not
796 2010-10-30 19:31:36 <kiba> well, I done some reading on the subject matter.
797 2010-10-30 19:31:44 <kiba> I supposed for some people, it will work, for some it will not.
798 2010-10-30 19:31:48 <kiba> As for me, it work well enough for me
799 2010-10-30 19:31:54 <MacRohard> until you step on something or stub your toe heh
800 2010-10-30 19:35:11 <kiba> MacRohard: yes, that's a real risk without a vibramfivefinger or other running shoe
801 2010-10-30 19:39:03 <kiba> and I also got hurt
802 2010-10-30 19:39:12 <kiba> because an idiot thrown out broken beer bottle
803 2010-10-30 19:39:29 <kiba> and some idiot also decided to throw fertilizer on his lawn AND the sidewalks and I was hurting like hell
804 2010-10-30 20:31:59 <kiba> ;mtgox
805 2010-10-30 20:32:09 <kiba> price rose to .19 for a brief period
806 2010-10-30 20:35:13 <MacRohard> it'll prolly be 1:1 before long at this rate
807 2010-10-30 20:35:27 <MacRohard> i dunno tho' 'cause there doesn't seem to have been any large increase in the userbase
808 2010-10-30 20:36:09 <kiba> I think volume is getting less and less because dollars just doesn't buy as much bitcoins
809 2010-10-30 20:36:38 <MacRohard> i also wonder how many people there are with a few hundred dollars worth of bitcoins sitting in a wallet that haven't even looked at bitcoin for a few months.
810 2010-10-30 20:36:43 <kiba> I now have something like almost 20 bucks, excluding my loan
811 2010-10-30 20:37:54 <kiba> last price is .195
812 2010-10-30 20:38:03 <kiba> but there is a serious mismatch on the bitcoin market
813 2010-10-30 20:38:26 <MacRohard> yea.. well no new people can sign up
814 2010-10-30 20:38:30 <MacRohard> so no new sources of money
815 2010-10-30 20:38:39 <MacRohard> many people who bought at much lower prices are maybe reluctant to buy now
816 2010-10-30 20:39:22 <kiba> no
817 2010-10-30 20:39:29 <kiba> high demand for bitcoins
818 2010-10-30 20:39:33 <kiba> but not much sellers
819 2010-10-30 20:40:09 <MacRohard> if that's true, they're not publishing their demand on BCM
820 2010-10-30 20:40:18 <kiba> hmm,
821 2010-10-30 20:40:22 <kiba> I misintrepret what you say
822 2010-10-30 20:40:29 <kiba> but even though there were no new users
823 2010-10-30 20:40:42 <kiba> the fact remains that at some point, their price matches
824 2010-10-30 20:40:45 <kiba> now, there are no matches
825 2010-10-30 20:41:07 <kiba> and mtgox have limited libertyreserve
826 2010-10-30 20:41:59 <MacRohard> the only bids on BCM are around $0.14.. there's an ask for 2000 at $0.18.. if there is demand then someone should be buying that up and they aren't
827 2010-10-30 20:43:40 <MacRohard> i mean you could buy that 2000 coins right now and sell it on mtgox for a $30 profit
828 2010-10-30 20:44:05 <MacRohard> i guess BCM is closed right now so you can't tho'
829 2010-10-30 20:44:22 <MacRohard> and yea you'd have a $30 profit in mtgoxUSD which you can't cash out hehe
830 2010-10-30 20:44:31 <kiba> once BCM really open up with a new website, the abritage opportunity will disappear quick
831 2010-10-30 20:44:40 <kiba> I can cash out
832 2010-10-30 20:44:45 <kiba> it's just liberty reserve
833 2010-10-30 20:44:56 <MacRohard> what other options are there?
834 2010-10-30 20:45:03 <kiba> not much
835 2010-10-30 20:45:07 <MacRohard> right
836 2010-10-30 20:45:15 <kiba> we have to wait until mtgox got his paypal back
837 2010-10-30 20:45:20 <MacRohard> that's never going to happen
838 2010-10-30 20:45:43 <kiba> you won't be able to deposit, but you will be able to withdraw
839 2010-10-30 20:45:51 <MacRohard> i dunno about that either
840 2010-10-30 20:45:56 <MacRohard> it's against their T&Cs
841 2010-10-30 20:46:15 <kiba> what is?
842 2010-10-30 20:46:23 <MacRohard> exchange trading
843 2010-10-30 20:47:03 <MacRohard> i mean it's pretty easy to create fake identities on paypal
844 2010-10-30 20:47:06 <MacRohard> so maybe he will do it
845 2010-10-30 20:47:15 <MacRohard> but it might be risky for him
846 2010-10-30 20:47:30 <MacRohard> since they can arbitrarily freeze accounts and keep the money
847 2010-10-30 20:48:24 <MacRohard> it's not really an acceptable solution and it has a real risk premium that probably is actually quite high like 20-40%
848 2010-10-30 20:51:49 <kiba> hmm, I have a quite long exchange history
849 2010-10-30 20:51:52 <kiba> 166 entries
850 2010-10-30 20:52:21 <kiba> I am also short selling should anything go south in the 30 days or so
851 2010-10-30 21:01:21 <AAA_awright> BitCoin needs a micropayment implementation, to pay website owners for content
852 2010-10-30 21:01:39 <AAA_awright> That's where it really excels
853 2010-10-30 21:01:55 <kiba> naw, it need an MMO
854 2010-10-30 21:02:01 <kiba> that where it REALLY excell
855 2010-10-30 21:03:08 <AAA_awright> It would need some way to verify payments instantly or near instantly
856 2010-10-30 21:04:22 <MacRohard> hmm maybe a service where you payed the website operator via paypal
857 2010-10-30 21:04:27 <MacRohard> they might actually like that
858 2010-10-30 21:05:40 <kiba> what the point of paying via pyapal?
859 2010-10-30 21:05:55 <MacRohard> lots of peopel don't really understand or trust bitcoin
860 2010-10-30 21:06:41 <MacRohard> "put this thing on your site and you get paypal" they can understand alot easier tahn "put this thing on your site and you get bitcoins which you can then exchange on various markets except you can't because there's no way to withdraw the money right now"
861 2010-10-30 21:34:28 <FreeMoney> wow 3k+ dificulty
862 2010-10-30 21:50:29 <edcba> AAA_awright: to verify near instantly you'd need more blocks/s generated
863 2010-10-30 21:51:49 <gribble> 3091.73911604
864 2010-10-30 21:51:49 <nanotube> ;;bc,diff
865 2010-10-30 21:51:52 <nanotube> ooh
866 2010-10-30 21:52:32 <edcba> where is the calculator thingy
867 2010-10-30 21:52:43 <nanotube> all the gpu miners are making an impact. :)
868 2010-10-30 21:52:50 <nanotube> hmm google it. :) bitbot is dead.
869 2010-10-30 21:52:58 <gribble> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1009.0 | I ask because I want to create a bitcoin mining rig with just pure GPU power. .... miner in a clean way, including a no nonsense hash per sec calculation. ...
870 2010-10-30 21:52:58 <nanotube> ;;sl bitcoin mining calculator
871 2010-10-30 21:53:06 <nanotube> hmm no hehe
872 2010-10-30 21:53:25 <nanotube> ;;sl bitcoin calculator
873 2010-10-30 21:53:26 <gribble> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php | Bitcoin Generation Calculator. Oct 30 1:49am. How long will it take for you to generate your first block and collect your first 50 Bitcoins? ...
874 2010-10-30 21:53:30 <edcba> 95% .5 year :)
875 2010-10-30 21:53:30 <nanotube> edcba: --^ that
876 2010-10-30 21:55:42 <edcba> we should talk in ???BTC :)
877 2010-10-30 21:57:09 <nanotube> hehe
878 2010-10-30 21:57:31 <nanotube> someone send me 1000 ???BTC
879 2010-10-30 21:57:32 <nanotube> :)
880 2010-10-30 21:57:42 <edcba> haha
881 2010-10-30 21:58:15 <AAA_awright> edcba: That's one way
882 2010-10-30 21:58:22 <dust__> still haven't figured out getting dual 5970 to work with OpenCL
883 2010-10-30 21:58:39 <dust__> anyone else running this other than Artforz?
884 2010-10-30 22:11:32 <AAA_awright> I'm not entirely convinced it's impossible to mathematically verify against double spending
885 2010-10-30 22:12:38 <edcba> AAA_awright: if network is cutted in half i don't see how maths will help
886 2010-10-30 22:12:41 <AAA_awright> And without needing to store the entire history of transactions
887 2010-10-30 22:12:52 <sneak> hi guys
888 2010-10-30 22:13:27 <sneak> dust__: what's the problem?
889 2010-10-30 22:13:45 <AAA_awright> edcba: How does it work under that situation currently?
890 2010-10-30 22:13:48 <nanotube> AAA_awright: well, the history thing can be avoided, if some account balance type thing is kept instead. but as far as 'verifying against double spending'... you can't really, that's what the block chain is for.
891 2010-10-30 22:15:07 <AAA_awright> Not even account balance
892 2010-10-30 22:15:17 <nanotube> as to 'what happens currently if network is cut': http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=weaknesses#segmentation
893 2010-10-30 22:16:08 <AAA_awright> If the network, or at least all of your friends, have signed and verified the the other person's balance, you shouldn't need to keep it, they can keep the balance for you, since you know it's authentic...
894 2010-10-30 22:16:32 <edcba> yes you can optimise a lot of thing adding trust
895 2010-10-30 22:17:18 <AAA_awright> Could there be some way of group-signing every transaction, with "your balance as of <x> is now <y>"
896 2010-10-30 22:17:33 <nanotube> except trust isn't perfect... but the blockchain ... is closer to it. :)
897 2010-10-30 22:18:10 <AAA_awright> where <x> is a hash of previous transactions
898 2010-10-30 22:18:17 <AAA_awright> I'm thinking Git-like
899 2010-10-30 22:18:42 <edcba> anyway there is already some balance sheet suggestion somewhere in the forum
900 2010-10-30 22:19:06 <edcba> but i doubt it would make much difference right now
901 2010-10-30 22:19:27 <edcba> and regrouping bitcoins have privacy issues
902 2010-10-30 22:26:00 <Diablo-D3> so lets see if I can unfuck my radeon
903 2010-10-30 22:34:30 <XxMalouinxX> what's the fuck ?
904 2010-10-30 22:35:17 <Diablo-D3> I invented opencl that causes it to deadlock the entire machine
905 2010-10-30 22:35:32 <Diablo-D3> its epic.
906 2010-10-30 22:36:04 <XxMalouinxX> What !?!
907 2010-10-30 22:36:12 <XxMalouinxX> how did you do that
908 2010-10-30 22:36:25 <Diablo-D3> probably driver boog.
909 2010-10-30 22:37:03 <XxMalouinxX> ok
910 2010-10-30 22:37:29 <Diablo-D3> problem is, it works on the cpu opencl device
911 2010-10-30 22:37:34 <XxMalouinxX> btw I did my new optimised bitcoin case today
912 2010-10-30 22:37:46 <XxMalouinxX> I'm gonna upload some pic
913 2010-10-30 22:39:43 <MacRohard> opencl seems pretty fragile
914 2010-10-30 22:39:47 <MacRohard> and almost no way to debug it
915 2010-10-30 22:40:08 <Diablo-D3> MacRohard: no, I can debug it
916 2010-10-30 22:41:31 <MacRohard> how? :)
917 2010-10-30 22:41:45 <Diablo-D3> run it on the cpu so it doesnt crash my box =P
918 2010-10-30 22:42:21 <MacRohard> heh
919 2010-10-30 22:43:39 <brocktice> So now two people have been saying they've had issues with the 5970
920 2010-10-30 22:43:49 <brocktice> Do you treat each GPU as a separate device for the miner?
921 2010-10-30 22:44:34 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: ask art
922 2010-10-30 22:44:41 <XxMalouinxX> two people ? who ?
923 2010-10-30 22:44:53 <brocktice> sneak:  and dust__
924 2010-10-30 22:45:00 <XxMalouinxX> Oh, what did happen ?
925 2010-10-30 22:45:02 <brocktice> sorry
926 2010-10-30 22:45:11 <brocktice> sneak said he was having lower performance on the second gpu on the card
927 2010-10-30 22:45:18 <brocktice> not sure what dust's issue is, he didn't appear to say