1 2010-11-01 00:00:57 <dgores> whats the block height on the debug chain?
  2 2010-11-01 00:03:19 <glassresistor> aceat64: hey i popped on earlier then disappeared you around?
  3 2010-11-01 00:04:03 <glassresistor> aceat64: i was wondering if the getwork patch was in your patchwork / will the patch typically work
  4 2010-11-01 00:04:21 <glassresistor> im gonna pop out again but ill leave this term open
  5 2010-11-01 00:04:38 <glassresistor> so i'll you back around for a reponse
  6 2010-11-01 00:23:16 <brocktice> Can anyone tell me under what circumstances the 'output value' of a transaction would be less than its 'input value', thereby generating a transaction fee?
  7 2010-11-01 00:25:55 <recon> brocktice: insofar as I understand it transaction fees only really apply when you've got a huge amount of bitcoins in a single transaction
  8 2010-11-01 00:26:01 <recon> at least right now
  9 2010-11-01 00:26:08 <brocktice> hm
 10 2010-11-01 00:26:12 <recon> and it's really low, like a fraction of a percent
 11 2010-11-01 00:26:30 <brocktice> Right, I just clearly don't yet understand how that situation could arise
 12 2010-11-01 00:26:37 <brocktice> but I think maybe I'm getting to the part where it's explained.
 13 2010-11-01 00:26:52 <brocktice> Fewer white russians while handing out halloween candy probably would have helped.
 14 2010-11-01 00:31:24 <brocktice> wow I'd skimmed that paper before, but it's much shorter on implementation details than I had thought.
 15 2010-11-01 00:31:48 <Diablo-D3> heh
 16 2010-11-01 00:31:52 <Diablo-D3> the paper isnt even entirely correct
 17 2010-11-01 00:32:18 <Diablo-D3> the client does things that are more optimal than what the paper described
 18 2010-11-01 00:32:38 <brocktice> and he wrote the client, right? I think I recall seeing his name in the source somewhere.
 19 2010-11-01 00:32:51 <Diablo-D3> like, target is basically ran as sha256[G] < target[6]
 20 2010-11-01 00:32:55 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: yeah
 21 2010-11-01 00:33:04 <brocktice> Reminds me of things that happen in my field.
 22 2010-11-01 00:33:15 <brocktice> People publish papers from which there is no way to reconstruct their experiment.
 23 2010-11-01 00:33:24 <brocktice> You have to get their simulator code and exact paramters.
 24 2010-11-01 00:33:32 <Diablo-D3> thats not really an issue
 25 2010-11-01 00:33:43 <brocktice> They often publish those, but without tweaks that make it work right, not because they're malicious, but because it's a low priority.
 26 2010-11-01 00:33:44 <Diablo-D3> most people writing papers write utterly shit code
 27 2010-11-01 00:33:48 <brocktice> That too.
 28 2010-11-01 00:34:18 <Diablo-D3> its also largely the problem with people who plan code before writing it
 29 2010-11-01 00:34:48 <Diablo-D3> when I write code, I write code until it looks like what its supposed to, and then I stop.
 30 2010-11-01 00:34:51 <brocktice> How's your java miner going btw?
 31 2010-11-01 00:34:54 <Diablo-D3> I dont plan it out before hand
 32 2010-11-01 00:35:01 <Diablo-D3> well, my miner, technically, is finished
 33 2010-11-01 00:35:08 <Diablo-D3> it does everything its supposed to
 34 2010-11-01 00:35:15 <brocktice> aside from your gpu-killing problem? Or is that fixed?
 35 2010-11-01 00:35:27 <Diablo-D3> cant fix that, its in either the hardware or the driver
 36 2010-11-01 00:35:37 <Diablo-D3> the workaround is use a worksize of 128 instead of 256
 37 2010-11-01 00:35:42 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt outright kill it btw
 38 2010-11-01 00:35:49 <Diablo-D3> it just really fucks it over
 39 2010-11-01 00:35:50 <brocktice> I remember, it runs fine on the CPU
 40 2010-11-01 00:36:16 <Diablo-D3> it just takes inordinately long times to return, up to the point the driver thinks the hardware is dead
 41 2010-11-01 00:36:21 <brocktice> I don't think you were around when it was discussed, a #bitcoin-mining was started up
 42 2010-11-01 00:36:21 <Diablo-D3> and then it just falls apart
 43 2010-11-01 00:36:29 <Diablo-D3> another one?
 44 2010-11-01 00:36:35 <brocktice> oh, there was one before?
 45 2010-11-01 00:36:36 <Diablo-D3> why not just use -otc?
 46 2010-11-01 00:36:40 <XxMalouinxX> :p
 47 2010-11-01 00:36:48 <brocktice> -otc is for lining up otc-transactions?
 48 2010-11-01 00:36:58 <Diablo-D3> yes, but a fair bit of mining discussion goes on in there
 49 2010-11-01 00:37:03 <brocktice> oh, did not know that.
 50 2010-11-01 00:38:09 <brocktice> Do you guys have any ideas for making it easier for people to get bitcoins, legally or at least not illegally?
 51 2010-11-01 00:38:13 <brocktice> We were discussing this earlier.
 52 2010-11-01 00:38:24 <brocktice> Haven't heard anything very promising yet.
 53 2010-11-01 00:38:33 <Diablo-D3> well, the easiest way is for people to buy them
 54 2010-11-01 00:38:36 <XxMalouinxX> you mean for anyone ?
 55 2010-11-01 00:38:39 <brocktice> Yeah, but with what?
 56 2010-11-01 00:38:45 <Diablo-D3> well, I take pp.
 57 2010-11-01 00:38:47 <brocktice> XxMalouinxX: yeah in terms of making it easy for new people to get in.
 58 2010-11-01 00:39:01 <brocktice> Say I am read Slashdot or whatever, and I hear about Bitcoins.
 59 2010-11-01 00:39:05 <brocktice> Then I find something I want to buy.
 60 2010-11-01 00:39:19 <brocktice> Now there is a long morass of confusing options between me and buying that thing with bitcoins right?
 61 2010-11-01 00:39:22 <brocktice> Which is bad for demand.
 62 2010-11-01 00:39:22 <XxMalouinxX> Buying is definitely the easiest... But bitcoin should have a place where it's easy to buy them
 63 2010-11-01 00:39:29 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: I agree, shit sucks
 64 2010-11-01 00:39:34 <XxMalouinxX> L$, Pecunix etc.. isn't easy to have
 65 2010-11-01 00:39:48 <brocktice> I'm just happy I can still use PayPal on bcm
 66 2010-11-01 00:39:57 <Kiba> opportunity for people to find easier way of exchanging money
 67 2010-11-01 00:40:05 <brocktice> Right, so I'm trying to find an easier way.
 68 2010-11-01 00:40:30 <XxMalouinxX> Another option would be to remunerate them
 69 2010-11-01 00:40:34 <Diablo-D3> brocktice: what we really need is a unified gateway for this
 70 2010-11-01 00:40:39 <brocktice> The problem is if I make money at it, charge a fee or whatever, that brings me into a legal danger zone.
 71 2010-11-01 00:40:48 <XxMalouinxX> I work on a project on the same style as "Compelte the survey to earn X $ " but for bitcoin
 72 2010-11-01 00:40:50 <Diablo-D3> not really
 73 2010-11-01 00:40:52 <Diablo-D3> theres no legal issues
 74 2010-11-01 00:40:53 <XxMalouinxX> complete*
 75 2010-11-01 00:40:56 <brocktice> Oh no?
 76 2010-11-01 00:41:05 <Diablo-D3> you just have to pay taxes.
 77 2010-11-01 00:41:47 <brocktice> I need to research this more then, I thought it required a license.
 78 2010-11-01 00:41:53 <brocktice> I'll happily pay taxes on it if that's the only issue.
 79 2010-11-01 00:41:56 <Diablo-D3> a license to do what?
 80 2010-11-01 00:42:07 <brocktice> exchange US dollars for other currencies.
 81 2010-11-01 00:42:12 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin isnt a currency.
 82 2010-11-01 00:42:18 <brocktice> oh like hell
 83 2010-11-01 00:42:31 <Diablo-D3> no country accepts it, I cant go to a bank and exchange it.
 84 2010-11-01 00:42:39 <Diablo-D3> its no more a currency than ithica hours or anything else
 85 2010-11-01 00:42:41 <brocktice> Here's the title of the paper: "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System"
 86 2010-11-01 00:42:47 <Diablo-D3> yes, so what?
 87 2010-11-01 00:42:54 <Diablo-D3> I could spawn a new bitcoin network that does shit in USD>
 88 2010-11-01 00:42:56 <brocktice> it was recently suggested on the forums that it not be called that to avoid issues.
 89 2010-11-01 00:43:17 <Diablo-D3> _this_ bitcoin network just happens to use a fictional currency called btc.
 90 2010-11-01 00:44:28 <brocktice> Oh, anti-money laundering laws, that's it
 91 2010-11-01 00:45:18 <brocktice> you guys know any lawyers that take bitcoins?
 92 2010-11-01 00:45:44 <brocktice> http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/amlsourcetool.htm
 93 2010-11-01 00:46:47 <recon> this might help: http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs28/28675/index.htm
 94 2010-11-01 00:47:45 <brocktice> oh cool
 95 2010-11-01 00:47:46 <brocktice> reading
 96 2010-11-01 00:50:26 <brocktice> "Many digital currency programs in the United States believe that they are not subject to any existing federal or state regulatory structure. This issue is currently being litigated in federal court."
 97 2010-11-01 00:51:31 <brocktice> bitcoin sounds like these people's worst nightmare
 98 2010-11-01 00:51:47 <brocktice> nice find recon
 99 2010-11-01 00:52:03 <recon> my google fu knows no bounds *
100 2010-11-01 00:52:07 <recon> (*) not a guarantee
101 2010-11-01 00:53:21 <brocktice> "Federal officials have acknowledged the need to close the regulatory loophole that exists in relation to digital currencies." Good luck with that, guys.
102 2010-11-01 00:53:46 <recon> honestly, though, the government isn't going to go after you for having $100 in BTC, especially if you're legit
103 2010-11-01 00:53:56 <brocktice> No, here's what I'm worried about.
104 2010-11-01 00:54:10 <brocktice> I have a business. I would like to use that business to make it easy for people to buy bitcoins.
105 2010-11-01 00:54:29 <brocktice> I start selling/exchanging bitcoins, maybe setting up a small fee or whatever to cover my time.
106 2010-11-01 00:54:54 <brocktice> The Feds find out I'm moving a lot of cash to bitcoins and back and make my life hell, possibly even with legal backing.
107 2010-11-01 00:54:55 <recon> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=227.0
108 2010-11-01 00:54:58 <brocktice> I would like to avoid this scenario.
109 2010-11-01 00:55:05 <recon> there's the actual law
110 2010-11-01 00:55:13 <recon> better formated at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001960----000-.html
111 2010-11-01 00:57:19 <recon> also http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/materials/en/prevention_guide.html
112 2010-11-01 00:58:40 <brocktice> Hm
113 2010-11-01 00:59:01 <brocktice> so if someone or a group of people set up a service that did not get any fee, it might be OK.
114 2010-11-01 00:59:25 <brocktice> not a bad idea, there's still an incentive if you want bitcoins to succeed for whatever reason.
115 2010-11-01 01:00:22 <brocktice> to take credit cards requires a merchant account
116 2010-11-01 01:00:42 <recon> you don't meet "Conducts more than $1,000 in money services business activity with the same person (in one type of activity) on the same day" presumably, or "Provides money transfer services in any amount"
117 2010-11-01 01:00:47 <recon> only "currency dealing or exchange"
118 2010-11-01 01:00:54 <recon> DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER
119 2010-11-01 01:00:57 <brocktice> sure
120 2010-11-01 01:01:04 <brocktice> although my sister is almost one, I should probably talk with her
121 2010-11-01 01:01:08 <brocktice> she could at least get me startd
122 2010-11-01 01:03:06 <brocktice> Actually, someone should talk with the EFF.
123 2010-11-01 01:03:13 <brocktice> I've been supporting them for a while, maybe I'll drop them a line.
124 2010-11-01 01:03:22 <brocktice> Presumably this is the kind of thing they retain lawyers for.
125 2010-11-01 01:04:45 <Diablo-D3> the eff is aware of bitcoin
126 2010-11-01 01:05:02 <brocktice> Sure, but they might be willing to offer some free legal advice on the issue.
127 2010-11-01 01:05:09 <brocktice> I don't know that they've been asked yet.
128 2010-11-01 01:05:21 <genjix> Diablo-D3: what do they say about it?
129 2010-11-01 01:05:25 <genjix> :)
130 2010-11-01 01:06:04 <Diablo-D3> dunno
131 2010-11-01 01:06:27 <brocktice> Diablo-D3: testing?
132 2010-11-01 01:07:03 <Diablo-D3> yes
133 2010-11-01 01:07:14 <Diablo-D3> "balance" : 0.00000000,
134 2010-11-01 01:07:18 <Diablo-D3> "difficulty" : 1.00000000,
135 2010-11-01 01:07:30 <brocktice> I guess the easiest way to get bitcoins really is to sell something else.
136 2010-11-01 01:07:54 <brocktice> so we need people willing to take bitcoins for more than useless crap
137 2010-11-01 01:08:08 <brocktice> I'm trying to sell a perfectly good server but nobody seems to want it
138 2010-11-01 01:08:13 <Diablo-D3> so no walmart then?
139 2010-11-01 01:08:14 <brocktice> probably the expensive shipping doesn't help
140 2010-11-01 01:08:15 <Diablo-D3> dohohohohoho
141 2010-11-01 01:08:21 <brocktice> ?
142 2010-11-01 01:08:37 <Diablo-D3> [10:07:54] <brocktice> so we need people willing to take bitcoins for more than useless crap
143 2010-11-01 01:08:44 <brocktice> It's not useless crap
144 2010-11-01 01:08:49 <brocktice> it just doesn't fit my needs any longer
145 2010-11-01 01:09:12 <brocktice> I'm also taking bitcoins for a product that I regularly sell new for USD.
146 2010-11-01 01:09:16 <brocktice> but, no takers yet.
147 2010-11-01 01:09:21 <brocktice> and with a discount!
148 2010-11-01 01:09:34 <Diablo-D3> currently java is using around 25%, X is using around 50%
149 2010-11-01 01:09:38 <brocktice> :(
150 2010-11-01 01:09:52 <Diablo-D3> so Im beating m0
151 2010-11-01 01:12:14 <brocktice> going to try using biddingpond and bitlist first before ebay for a while, see how that goes
152 2010-11-01 01:12:49 <brocktice> that ebay book seller taking bitcoins is a good start
153 2010-11-01 01:15:26 <Diablo-D3> something is utterly fucked here.
154 2010-11-01 01:15:40 <brocktice> it's Java that's at fault, you know
155 2010-11-01 01:15:55 <Diablo-D3> how so?
156 2010-11-01 01:16:30 <Diablo-D3> you do realize, this is as opposed to m0 50% py 50% x
157 2010-11-01 01:16:48 <brocktice> I'm just giving you a hard time.
158 2010-11-01 01:19:31 <ArtForz> http://pastebin.com/6qDPiWCi
159 2010-11-01 01:20:32 <brocktice> art, that's your custom miner though, right?
160 2010-11-01 01:20:35 <ArtForz> yep
161 2010-11-01 01:20:39 <ArtForz> 2 5970s and 2 5770s
162 2010-11-01 01:21:50 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: god I hate math
163 2010-11-01 01:21:59 <brocktice> What prompted you to write it? Was it before or after m0 made his public?
164 2010-11-01 01:22:13 <ArtForz> quite a bit before
165 2010-11-01 01:22:18 <brocktice> ah
166 2010-11-01 01:22:40 <genjix> where can I see a list of $-BTC market rates?
167 2010-11-01 01:22:46 <genjix> is bitcoinwatch accurate?
168 2010-11-01 01:22:49 <brocktice> genjix: best I know is bitcoinwatch
169 2010-11-01 01:22:55 <brocktice> I'm not sure of the algorithm though
170 2010-11-01 01:32:08 <dgores> where in the source code is the coins per block calculated?
171 2010-11-01 01:33:09 <ArtForz> main.cpp GetBlockValue
172 2010-11-01 01:35:06 <dgores> thanks : )
173 2010-11-01 01:37:41 <Diablo-D3> something is obviously broke in my miner
174 2010-11-01 01:50:05 <dgores> is there a single UTF8 character that you guys use to mean bitcoin currency?
175 2010-11-01 01:50:34 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure if there is a middle finger symbol in unicode yet
176 2010-11-01 01:50:53 <Kiba> nutty French college students protesting the rise of retirement age to 62
177 2010-11-01 01:51:06 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: and french unions.
178 2010-11-01 01:57:56 <jrabbit> Kiba: its not 62
179 2010-11-01 01:58:12 <jrabbit> thats the start of the pension
180 2010-11-01 01:58:19 <jrabbit> they don't get it until 65 right now
181 2010-11-01 01:58:24 <jrabbit> they want to raise it to 67
182 2010-11-01 01:58:31 <jrabbit> (the full pension)
183 2010-11-01 01:58:38 <jrabbit> iirc
184 2010-11-01 02:00:52 <genjix> anyone want to play on betcoin
185 2010-11-01 02:00:59 <genjix> its rake free apparently right now
186 2010-11-01 02:01:54 <Kiba> jrabbit: oh, my bad.
187 2010-11-01 02:02:30 <recon> genjix: what are the stakes like, small/micro?
188 2010-11-01 02:02:39 <genjix> yeah everything
189 2010-11-01 02:02:39 <recon> i usually only play uNL10
190 2010-11-01 02:02:52 <genjix> well I only have 14 btc
191 2010-11-01 02:03:13 <recon> uNL10 is .05/10 small/big blind
192 2010-11-01 02:03:20 <recon> really small, you could play with 1 btc
193 2010-11-01 02:03:38 <recon> anyway, i'd love to play but I have a bitcoin deal in the making with Keefe and he's left, so I've got nothing to play with
194 2010-11-01 02:04:51 <Kiba> may be a doomed hope though
195 2010-11-01 02:05:06 <genjix> did you get scammed by Keefe??
196 2010-11-01 02:05:43 <recon> nah, he just went away before I got the scratch in a suitable form together
197 2010-11-01 02:05:50 <recon> he'll be on tomorrow and we'll do it then
198 2010-11-01 02:10:45 <dwdollar> Kiba:  You might be in luck then...  If I can get it to work.
199 2010-11-01 02:12:30 <dwdollar> I'd like to also
200 2010-11-01 02:22:06 <genjix> wow
201 2010-11-01 02:22:22 <genjix> theres just been a suicide bomb blast in istanbul injuring 32 people
202 2010-11-01 02:22:32 <genjix> right where I was living a few months ago
203 2010-11-01 02:22:44 <genjix> wow, incredible
204 2010-11-01 02:23:35 <genjix> literally 10m away
205 2010-11-01 02:23:54 <Kiba> dwdollar: what you're working on?
206 2010-11-01 02:28:00 <dwdollar> Kiba:  I want to have borrowing for margin and short selling.
207 2010-11-01 02:28:26 <Kiba> well, I am already borrowing money from nanotube
208 2010-11-01 02:31:44 <Kiba> seriously, I need to incentivize my robot building project
209 2010-11-01 02:31:58 <dwdollar> Short selling is kind of complicated underneath, because you have to first borrow it from someone else in order to sell it.
210 2010-11-01 02:32:43 <dwdollar> For it to be legitimate anyway.
211 2010-11-01 02:34:04 <genjix> jrabbit: http://home.savageraptor.operaunite.com/med
212 2010-11-01 02:34:07 <genjix> oops
213 2010-11-01 02:34:11 <jrabbit> wat
214 2010-11-01 02:34:13 <genjix> jrabbit: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/10/31/2125201/KDE-Developers-Discuss-Merging-Libraries-With-Qt
215 2010-11-01 02:34:19 <genjix> incredible :)
216 2010-11-01 02:34:31 <jrabbit> OH DEAR GOD
217 2010-11-01 02:34:38 <jrabbit> qt could TAKE LONGER TO COMPILE
218 2010-11-01 02:34:45 <jrabbit> THE APOCOLYPSE IS UPON US
219 2010-11-01 02:35:00 <Diablo-D3> oh fuck
220 2010-11-01 02:35:06 <Diablo-D3> it may take YEARS to compile qt now!
221 2010-11-01 02:35:23 <Diablo-D3> it already takes months!
222 2010-11-01 02:35:41 <genjix> heh
223 2010-11-01 02:38:15 <genjix> i welcome this
224 2010-11-01 02:38:25 <genjix> i just spent a day porting a KDE widget to qt
225 2010-11-01 02:40:39 <jrabbit> I wodner if clang can compile qt
226 2010-11-01 02:40:41 <jrabbit> XD
227 2010-11-01 02:40:51 <jrabbit> screw kernels
228 2010-11-01 02:40:54 <jrabbit> can it do qt
229 2010-11-01 02:40:55 <jrabbit> :P
230 2010-11-01 02:41:13 <jrabbit> I got a tip on pyside
231 2010-11-01 02:41:20 <jrabbit> but I've been too lazy to test it
232 2010-11-01 02:41:27 <jrabbit> maybe I shoudl jsut do one build then go to bed...
233 2010-11-01 03:23:10 <OneFixt> Is anyone currently lending coins?
234 2010-11-01 03:24:08 <nanotube> i am
235 2010-11-01 03:24:12 <nanotube> but you already know that...:)
236 2010-11-01 03:24:15 <OneFixt> =)
237 2010-11-01 03:24:29 <OneFixt> I'd be happy to borrow more from you if you are so inclined!
238 2010-11-01 03:24:39 <nanotube> and given that i already lent you some, and i want to diversify my borrower base... you should look for other lenders. :)
239 2010-11-01 03:24:40 <nanotube> hehe
240 2010-11-01 03:24:53 <OneFixt> Diversification is overrated =D
241 2010-11-01 03:25:09 <OneFixt> (That's what they did with the subprime thingamadoodle)
242 2010-11-01 03:25:27 <OneFixt> 1000 * crap still equals crap
243 2010-11-01 03:26:17 <OneFixt> But that's what I'm doing, looking for other lenders: Please PM me if you are lending at 1% per 30 days.
244 2010-11-01 03:27:04 <nanotube> heh well that's a whole other kettle of fish. ;) in this case i'm diversifying among multiple people's reputations. so that one flake-out doesn't leave me penniless. or... bitcoinless, as the case may be. :)
245 2010-11-01 03:27:36 <nanotube> flake-out, unfortunate incidents with kitchen utensils, etc.
246 2010-11-01 03:27:40 <OneFixt> I don't blame you sir, I know myself to be a good investment, but you have no way of knowing that ^_^
247 2010-11-01 03:28:38 <nanotube> hehe indeed. but even a trustworthy person such as yourself is not immune to a collision with a much heavier object, such as a train...
248 2010-11-01 03:29:33 <OneFixt> Yes, I should perhaps create an auto-send script.
249 2010-11-01 03:30:07 <nanotube> or at least leave instructions in your will, or something. :) heh
250 2010-11-01 03:30:15 <nanotube> (hope it doesn't come to that)
251 2010-11-01 03:30:21 <OneFixt> yes, this is horrible, lol
252 2010-11-01 03:30:32 <nanotube> yea, totally.
253 2010-11-01 03:30:42 <OneFixt> But you're completely right from a risk perspective.
254 2010-11-01 03:31:28 <nanotube> gotta think about the unfortunate possibilities...
255 2010-11-01 03:31:54 <nanotube> if you make an autosend script... have it send me your entire balance. cuz if it comes to that... you're not going to be needing your bitcoins, right? hehe j/k
256 2010-11-01 03:32:20 <OneFixt> At that point my payoff matrix is pretty much 0/0
257 2010-11-01 03:32:22 <OneFixt> lol
258 2010-11-01 03:34:29 <OneFixt> Alrighty, going to sleep. Cya nanotube.
259 2010-11-01 03:34:42 <OneFixt> Anyone lending bitcoins, please send me a PM.
260 2010-11-01 03:45:47 <dgores> Is there some number of nodes that need to be in a bitcoin chain before the nodes will be able to generate coins? (I think I might have seen that code somewhere, and I'm surprised that my node on #bitcoinTEST hasn't generated a coin yet.
261 2010-11-01 03:46:24 <dgores> by "in a bitcoin chain" I mean currently running on the chain
262 2010-11-01 03:50:17 <dgores> MS VS 2010's console is slow.  I moved my console into the application (now appending text to a textbox in the app) and my application goes from Genesis block to generating blocks about 10x faster (guessing)
263 2010-11-01 03:50:36 <nanotube> OneFixt: ttyl, good night. :)
264 2010-11-01 04:03:59 <Diablo-D3> ooh found a bug in my code
265 2010-11-01 04:36:06 <joe_1> onefixt how much are you borrowing at 20% (792% APR) for 1 month?
266 2010-11-01 04:42:09 <nanotube> joe_1: 1% per 30 days. not 1% per day
267 2010-11-01 04:42:52 <joe_1> oh i cant open anything up at that rate
268 2010-11-01 04:43:01 <nanotube> that comes out to 12% apr and 12.68 apy
269 2010-11-01 04:43:21 <nanotube> a credit card account, maybe? hehe.
270 2010-11-01 04:44:01 <joe_1> no, i cant loan anything at that rate
271 2010-11-01 04:44:30 <joe_1> with the volatility of bitcoin versus the dollar i think there would be demand for a 20% per month loan
272 2010-11-01 04:46:52 <nanotube> joe_1: hehe that's quite a rate. though i guess in the absence of competition, you may have a taker. give it a try. post your offer on -otc.
273 2010-11-01 04:47:16 <joe_1> how do i get to it
274 2010-11-01 04:47:21 <nanotube> join #bitcoin-otc
275 2010-11-01 04:47:31 <nanotube> and get a freenode cloak
276 2010-11-01 05:01:03 <Diablo-D3> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException
277 2010-11-01 05:01:17 <joe_1> you need to new the array
278 2010-11-01 05:01:30 <Diablo-D3> joe_1: its a IntBuffer you douche.
279 2010-11-01 05:01:39 <joe_1> new it
280 2010-11-01 05:01:50 <Diablo-D3> you dont new IntBuffers!
281 2010-11-01 05:01:55 <Diablo-D3> you use the factory method!
282 2010-11-01 05:01:58 <joe_1> new it!
283 2010-11-01 05:02:08 <Diablo-D3> new that, motherfucker
284 2010-11-01 05:02:24 <joe_1> fuck you!!
285 2010-11-01 05:03:14 <nanotube> lol
286 2010-11-01 05:03:58 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: you really do get too gratuitous with your insults, though. funny as it is to watch from the sidelines. :)
287 2010-11-01 05:20:39 <Diablo-D3> btw
288 2010-11-01 05:20:49 <Diablo-D3> I figured out what was royally fucking my box I think
289 2010-11-01 05:21:02 <Diablo-D3> kernel ran with a worksize of 0
290 2010-11-01 05:21:37 <Diablo-D3> which, if the bug in the driver/hardware is what I think it was, it was trying to execute 2**32 + 1 work items.
291 2010-11-01 05:22:46 <Diablo-D3> we're about to find out if Im right
292 2010-11-01 05:23:14 <Diablo-D3> nope I was wrong
293 2010-11-01 05:23:15 <Diablo-D3> bam.
294 2010-11-01 08:27:37 <Tritonio> hello
295 2010-11-01 08:27:46 <Tritonio> long time... :-)
296 2010-11-01 08:28:22 <Tritonio> question: is mt.got still a US$/BTC exchange site?
297 2010-11-01 08:28:33 <Tritonio> or did it switch to liberty reserve?
298 2010-11-01 08:28:50 <Diablo-D3> mtgox still cant do ppusd
299 2010-11-01 08:29:03 <Tritonio> ppusd?
300 2010-11-01 08:29:07 <Diablo-D3> paypal
301 2010-11-01 08:29:22 <Diablo-D3> hes looking at other paypal competitors, though
302 2010-11-01 08:29:29 <Tritonio> so what do you exchange in mtgox now?
303 2010-11-01 08:29:39 <Diablo-D3> just lr and pecunix I think
304 2010-11-01 08:29:48 <Tritonio> yes he enabled liberty reserved though.
305 2010-11-01 08:30:02 <Tritonio> so the dollars on the site are lr dollars?
306 2010-11-01 08:30:10 <Diablo-D3> yes
307 2010-11-01 08:30:16 <Tritonio> and the exchange rate should be considered as such?
308 2010-11-01 08:30:24 <Diablo-D3> well, remember, LR is USD too
309 2010-11-01 08:30:27 <ne0futur> moneybookers is perty good as paypal competitor
310 2010-11-01 08:30:36 <Tritonio> what is lr exactly?
311 2010-11-01 08:30:49 <Diablo-D3> Tritonio: gold backed USD representation
312 2010-11-01 08:31:06 <Tritonio> so 1 LR$ = 1 US$?
313 2010-11-01 08:32:30 <Diablo-D3> Tritonio: I think so
314 2010-11-01 08:32:45 <Diablo-D3> btw, mtgox needs to look at revolution moneyexchange as well
315 2010-11-01 08:32:51 <Tritonio> (to cut a long story: is the exchange rate reliable? or should I use another source for the BTC/$ rate for my converter?)
316 2010-11-01 08:33:54 <FreeMoney> I guess bitcoinmarket PP is a little more accurate
317 2010-11-01 08:35:26 <Diablo-D3> Tritonio: its worth around 13 cents give or take
318 2010-11-01 08:36:35 <Tritonio> FreeMoney: hmmm... so I should change my converter and point it to bitcoinmarket?
319 2010-11-01 08:36:42 <Tritonio> Diablo-D3: where did you find that 13?
320 2010-11-01 08:36:56 <Diablo-D3> Im looking at the OTC market
321 2010-11-01 08:37:14 <Diablo-D3> ooh, the 50 block test is almost done
322 2010-11-01 08:37:20 <FreeMoney> You could have a conversion to PP and also to LR, right?
323 2010-11-01 08:38:01 <FreeMoney> you have two sources for LR conversion though, so maybe average them? I dunno what is best
324 2010-11-01 08:38:11 <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt say average
325 2010-11-01 08:38:15 <Diablo-D3> use the highest
326 2010-11-01 08:38:25 <Diablo-D3> and then sell to the market that gives you the best offer
327 2010-11-01 08:39:37 <Tritonio> Doh.....
328 2010-11-01 08:40:06 <Tritonio> btw
329 2010-11-01 08:40:11 <Diablo-D3> come on come on....
330 2010-11-01 08:40:19 <Tritonio> mt.gox is still accurate.
331 2010-11-01 08:40:20 <Diablo-D3> 3 left
332 2010-11-01 08:40:29 <Tritonio> it says 0.19$
333 2010-11-01 08:40:43 <Diablo-D3> hmm, seems a bit high
334 2010-11-01 08:40:57 <Tritonio> and the average of sell and bid in market is 0.195 i think
335 2010-11-01 08:41:14 <Tritonio> 0.18 bid. 0.21 ask.
336 2010-11-01 08:41:20 <Diablo-D3> wow, its worth a lot now
337 2010-11-01 08:41:23 <Tritonio> so mt.gox is pretty accurate...
338 2010-11-01 08:41:34 <Tritonio> but i still don't understand how lr works
339 2010-11-01 08:41:39 <Diablo-D3> lr works like this
340 2010-11-01 08:41:41 <Diablo-D3> you give lr moey
341 2010-11-01 08:41:43 <Diablo-D3> *money
342 2010-11-01 08:41:50 <Diablo-D3> they give you lr$, which is gold
343 2010-11-01 08:42:01 <Diablo-D3> then, you send the lr$ to someone, which is assured to exist
344 2010-11-01 08:42:07 <Diablo-D3> and then they do whatever they want with it
345 2010-11-01 08:42:20 <Tritonio> they give you gold worth 1$ or a gold coin that says it's worth 1$
346 2010-11-01 08:42:38 <Tritonio> also is it physical money?
347 2010-11-01 08:42:46 <Tritonio> or is it like pecunix?
348 2010-11-01 08:42:52 <Diablo-D3> its like pecunix
349 2010-11-01 08:43:23 <Diablo-D3> * Diablo-D3 starts timer at 4:51
350 2010-11-01 08:43:38 <FreeMoney> uh yeah,average is dumb. Do highest bid and lowest ask
351 2010-11-01 08:44:05 <Tritonio> so if I sell some bitcoins in mtgox for 1$. And try to withdraw it, what will I get?
352 2010-11-01 08:44:16 <Tritonio> 1$ in lr?
353 2010-11-01 08:44:18 <Diablo-D3> 73 mhash
354 2010-11-01 08:44:20 <Diablo-D3> fuck. yeah.
355 2010-11-01 08:44:21 <Tritonio> at what price?
356 2010-11-01 08:44:32 <Tritonio> Diablo-D3: what are you doing? :-)
357 2010-11-01 08:44:39 <Diablo-D3> I wrote my own miner
358 2010-11-01 08:45:10 <Tritonio> which means?
359 2010-11-01 08:45:15 <Tritonio> i know what a miner is
360 2010-11-01 08:45:22 <Tritonio> but it's different in what way?
361 2010-11-01 08:45:30 <Diablo-D3> hey m0mchil hey m0mchil
362 2010-11-01 08:45:45 <Diablo-D3> oops, I did the math wrong, it does 71
363 2010-11-01 08:45:56 <m0mchil> Diablo-D3: hi
364 2010-11-01 08:45:57 <Diablo-D3> m0mchil: my miner, it does 71, vs your 65 :D
365 2010-11-01 08:46:05 <m0mchil> Diablo-D3: great
366 2010-11-01 08:46:10 <Tritonio> how?
367 2010-11-01 08:46:22 <Diablo-D3> m0mchil: and holy fuck do I hate my radeon
368 2010-11-01 08:46:28 <Tritonio> a ok got it
369 2010-11-01 08:47:24 <Tritonio> ok another question. the exchange rate between us$ and lr changes, right?
370 2010-11-01 08:50:04 <m0mchil> Diablo-D3: did you managed to solve the CPU utilization issue?
371 2010-11-01 08:50:36 <Diablo-D3> m0mchil: you just asked me that
372 2010-11-01 08:52:05 <m0mchil> Diablo-D3: you didn't answered
373 2010-11-01 08:52:11 <Diablo-D3> I did too
374 2010-11-01 08:52:30 <Diablo-D3> your irc client must be broken
375 2010-11-01 08:52:43 <m0mchil> apparently
376 2010-11-01 08:52:53 <Diablo-D3> [05:48:00] <Diablo-D3> partially
377 2010-11-01 08:53:20 <m0mchil> brb
378 2010-11-01 08:55:57 <Diablo-D3> Im now trying to find the most optimal settings
379 2010-11-01 09:42:24 <lfm> Tritonio, you still there? did you have some sorta question about exchange rate?
380 2010-11-01 09:42:32 <Tritonio> still here.
381 2010-11-01 09:42:39 <Tritonio> i made the 6th version... :-)
382 2010-11-01 09:42:46 <Tritonio> still using mt.gox.
383 2010-11-01 09:42:52 <Tritonio> aaah yes i had one more question
384 2010-11-01 09:43:06 <Tritonio> since the lr/$ rate changes (i suppose)
385 2010-11-01 09:43:15 <Tritonio> if I but 1lr with 1$
386 2010-11-01 09:43:26 <Tritonio> and put it in mtgox
387 2010-11-01 09:43:53 <Tritonio> and then the rate changes so that 1rl is equivalent to 2$. what will happen if I withdraw it from mtgox?
388 2010-11-01 09:44:00 <Tritonio> will I get 2$?
389 2010-11-01 09:44:25 <lfm> I think MtGox $ are LR$ so you would still have 1$
390 2010-11-01 09:45:04 <lfm> I dont think the LR$ really does change value wrt us$
391 2010-11-01 09:45:57 <Tritonio> doesn't it? but since it's backed by gold it should change alon with the rate of gold.
392 2010-11-01 09:46:17 <lfm> ya thats strange isnt it. I dont know why
393 2010-11-01 09:46:24 <Tritonio> so if you are right, mtgox is not a usd exchange site.
394 2010-11-01 09:47:25 <lfm> well, since I think LR$ are fixed to us$ and mtgox is$ are fixed to LR$ then mtgox is like us$
395 2010-11-01 09:48:48 <Diablo-D3> lfm: well no
396 2010-11-01 09:48:49 <lfm> but ya mtgox doesnt trade  directly in us$ i guess normally
397 2010-11-01 09:48:57 <Diablo-D3> you'd get the min/max for all currencies across all markets
398 2010-11-01 09:49:10 <Diablo-D3> since sometimes you can get a better deal with one vs another
399 2010-11-01 09:49:36 <lfm> well mtgox is intended to be just a simple exchange between BTC and $
400 2010-11-01 09:50:41 <lfm> the fact that the rate at mtgox might differ from other rates doesnt matter to mtgox
401 2010-11-01 09:51:39 <Diablo-D3> no, but if you're looking for the best deal, you'd go after other markets too
402 2010-11-01 09:52:02 <lfm> mybe, the convience factors also come into effect
403 2010-11-01 09:53:25 <lfm> but ya, if you are strictly looking for the best deal you would check all the possible exchange rates
404 2010-11-01 09:53:43 <lfm> and service fees etc
405 2010-11-01 09:57:48 <lfm> one might also try to set a value on the trustworthness of various exchangers I sopze
406 2010-11-01 09:58:54 <Diablo-D3> well
407 2010-11-01 09:58:57 <Diablo-D3> I think my client is now done
408 2010-11-01 10:00:46 <Diablo-D3> er, miner I mean
409 2010-11-01 10:01:53 <Tritonio> hmmm... when i make te next version i might take the average highest bid and the average lowest ask from sites and then take the average of the two.
410 2010-11-01 10:02:08 <Diablo-D3> Tritonio: not average
411 2010-11-01 10:02:14 <Diablo-D3> just display both values
412 2010-11-01 10:03:37 <Tritonio> hmmm.... to many fields... plus conversions from one to another via dollars will be pointless...
413 2010-11-01 10:03:54 <Diablo-D3> yes, but those two values are the most important
414 2010-11-01 10:04:04 <Diablo-D3> best deal if you're selling, best deal if you're buying
415 2010-11-01 10:06:18 <Tritonio> i want to keep it simple... It's supposed to be a simple converter. not a tool for finding the best price. But I agree that it would be nice to have one such program. That gathers all bitcoin data and shows it (graphically too)
416 2010-11-01 10:06:30 <Diablo-D3> yeah
417 2010-11-01 10:13:04 <MacRohard> does anyone have an idea of the aggregate hash/sec rate of the network?
418 2010-11-01 10:13:14 <Diablo-D3> a lot
419 2010-11-01 10:19:13 <bonsaikitten> I wonder how many nuclear power plants that is
420 2010-11-01 10:19:26 <MacRohard> 0
421 2010-11-01 10:20:02 <MacRohard> probably not even a large village disel plant worth
422 2010-11-01 10:20:21 <Diablo-D3> so
423 2010-11-01 10:20:24 <Diablo-D3> has anyone seen art
424 2010-11-01 10:20:55 <MacRohard> he was on 7hrs ago
425 2010-11-01 10:21:25 <Tritonio> ArtForz?
426 2010-11-01 10:21:50 <Diablo-D3> MacRohard: well, remember how he said the theoretical maximum of my radeon 4850 is 75?
427 2010-11-01 10:22:00 <MacRohard> nope
428 2010-11-01 10:22:07 <Diablo-D3> well, he did
429 2010-11-01 10:22:17 <Diablo-D3> I got mine going 71.
430 2010-11-01 10:22:31 <MacRohard> not bad
431 2010-11-01 10:22:46 <Diablo-D3> m0's does about 65.
432 2010-11-01 10:23:08 <Diablo-D3> I cant squeeze any more performance out of it
433 2010-11-01 10:23:10 <Diablo-D3> its impossible
434 2010-11-01 10:45:09 <Tritonio> bye bye
435 2010-11-01 11:43:18 <XxMalouinxX> Diablo-D3: there ?
436 2010-11-01 11:52:34 <yebyen> MacRohard: i tried -connect= also, it did not help
437 2010-11-01 11:52:52 <yebyen> (hours ago)
438 2010-11-01 11:53:12 <yebyen> trying to get two testing clients to connect to each other with no internet
439 2010-11-01 11:53:33 <yebyen> i have IRC, DNS, phony irc.lfnet.org, but they don't find each other
440 2010-11-01 11:53:41 <yebyen> even with -connect