1 2010-11-21 00:01:44 <xelister> theymos: you use miner?
2 2010-11-21 00:01:51 <xelister> anyone using miner, can all please write
3 2010-11-21 00:02:11 <theymos> I'm mining with the stock Bitcoin CPU miner.
4 2010-11-21 00:02:27 <nanotube> theymos: what's your hps ? :)
5 2010-11-21 00:02:39 <theymos> nanotube: About 2200 on two computers.
6 2010-11-21 00:02:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2200 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 22 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 52 minutes, and 36 seconds
7 2010-11-21 00:02:48 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 2200
8 2010-11-21 00:02:55 <nanotube> mmm :)
9 2010-11-21 00:03:33 <xelister> system/version/latest update+restart (i.e. using newest kernel for distro?), bitcoind svn revision, any modifications to miner? AMD SDK version. Catalyst version --> what options --> Mhash, desktop lag/other problems
10 2010-11-21 00:04:26 <nanotube> xelister: well, i know that ArtForz and Keefe both use custom miners... besides that... there must be a bunch of people using m0m's, since network power has been increasing steadily since he's released it. :)
11 2010-11-21 00:04:48 <xelister> linux/ubuntu/2010.11.21 , 183+getwork, m0m, sdk 2.2 --> RADEON 5770; any options like -f30 -f200 --> 160Mhash as expected, desktop is nice BUT it hangs each few minutes, quicker if GPU is under load(movies etc)(
12 2010-11-21 00:05:19 <xelister> linux/ubuntu/2010.11.10(!!!) [... all same options ...] ---> 160 Mhash, and NOT hanging. Best config
13 2010-11-21 00:06:12 <xelister> linux/ubuntu/2010.11.21 , 183+getwork, Diablo's, edited .cl to unblock amd_bit_align as Diablo told. sdk 2.2 --> RADEON 5770; --> 160Mhash as expected, desktop is SLOW AS SHIT even -f 200, and cpu use is 200%
14 2010-11-21 00:06:48 <xelister> linux/ubuntu/2010.11.21 [disablos, same ] sdk 2.1 !!! --> RADEON 5770; --> 100Mhash :((( and desktop is responsive, almost 0% cpu use
15 2010-11-21 00:07:09 <xelister> so.. since the update m0m's miner started hanging; And diablo miner is either slow or kills desktop
16 2010-11-21 00:07:16 <xelister> anyone else can write?
17 2010-11-21 00:08:38 <nanotube> xelister: maybe post a forum thread with this info, too
18 2010-11-21 00:09:21 <tcatm> i have a custom miner, but it needs a special bitcoind
19 2010-11-21 00:31:49 <Kiba> so we briefly reached .29
20 2010-11-21 00:33:07 <tcatm> not really
21 2010-11-21 00:33:58 <tcatm> 0.285 .. 0.29 were the only trades with significant volume (~13k)
22 2010-11-21 00:35:42 <jgarzik> boy, this TX spam flood is highly irregular. sometime it maxes out ~219 TX/block, sometimes it's only 14/block. and the spammer takes breaks every now and then.
23 2010-11-21 00:37:00 <Kiba> is he losing money, yet?
24 2010-11-21 00:37:50 <joose> thankyou bitcoin devs!!!!!!
25 2010-11-21 00:37:58 <joose> LONG LIVE BITCOIN!
26 2010-11-21 00:38:08 <Kiba> another market anarchist?
27 2010-11-21 00:38:20 <joose> i dont know, but i fucking LOVE bitcoin
28 2010-11-21 00:38:26 <joose> it solves so many important problems
29 2010-11-21 00:39:04 <joose> its the best thing since sliced bread, but i dont even buy sliced bread
30 2010-11-21 00:39:11 <joose> cause i make my own bread
31 2010-11-21 00:39:17 <joose> i cant wait til i can work for bitcoins
32 2010-11-21 00:39:37 <Kiba> you can work for bitcoins
33 2010-11-21 00:40:32 <tcatm> anyone have a well-connected bitcoin node on a public IP?
34 2010-11-21 00:41:04 <theymos> tcatm: I do.
35 2010-11-21 00:41:13 <theymos> theymos: theymos.ath.cx
36 2010-11-21 00:41:43 <theymos> Also see http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
37 2010-11-21 00:42:23 <tcatm> ah that's cool
38 2010-11-21 00:43:09 <joose> I hope my landlord takes bitcoins :P
39 2010-11-21 00:43:38 <joose> i think the exchange rate may go wild in the near future and eventually become nice and stable, thoughts?
40 2010-11-21 00:43:52 <Kiba> there's no such thing as stability.
41 2010-11-21 00:44:05 <Kiba> there is only...change.
42 2010-11-21 00:44:07 <jgarzik> the exchange rate will continue to be volatile long into the future, whether bitcoin is wildly successful or remains a niche currency
43 2010-11-21 00:44:33 <theymos> I don't think it will become stable in relation to fiat currencies because fiat currencies are not stable.
44 2010-11-21 00:45:06 <Kiba> The Chinese already felt that they are the master
45 2010-11-21 00:45:27 <Kiba> but the geeks of the world will have the last laugh
46 2010-11-21 00:45:33 <Kiba> after all, we'll inherit the earth
47 2010-11-21 00:46:26 <xelister> tcatm: carfe to post it? what language?
48 2010-11-21 00:47:12 <tcatm> plain c
49 2010-11-21 00:47:20 <uberjar> ftw
50 2010-11-21 00:47:21 <xelister> Kiba: perhaps its good if chinese are strong
51 2010-11-21 00:47:34 <xelister> at least it will teach something the United States of Arrogancce
52 2010-11-21 00:47:42 <xelister> *arrogance
53 2010-11-21 00:47:47 <Kiba> Arrogance?
54 2010-11-21 00:47:52 <xelister> yes
55 2010-11-21 00:48:04 <Kiba> the government's arrogance, perhaps
56 2010-11-21 00:48:19 <xelister> sorry, you voted it. Now and always. And people are the same
57 2010-11-21 00:48:26 <xelister> note, how people give addresses on internet
58 2010-11-21 00:48:29 <lfm> government of the people by the people etc etc
59 2010-11-21 00:48:45 <xelister> usually American will write like 32/512 whatever st., Dallas
60 2010-11-21 00:48:46 <joose> i didnt vote
61 2010-11-21 00:49:00 <xelister> perhaps Dallas, Colorado or whereve it lies
62 2010-11-21 00:49:33 <joose> jgarzik: very true. I feel we have margin trading to thank for that
63 2010-11-21 00:49:37 <xelister> no douchbags not everyone lives in USA damn it, the address is .... Iowa, United States of America
64 2010-11-21 00:49:50 <xelister> here people write like ... Warsaw, Poland
65 2010-11-21 00:50:01 <jgarzik> theymos: googling for bitcoin addresses pops up google cache of BBE pages. I was curious... do you output a Last-Modified HTTP header?
66 2010-11-21 00:50:28 <theymos> jgarzik: No.
67 2010-11-21 00:50:32 <xelister> but that is just small detail that I found interesting to mention :) The examples of really we-rule-the-world-and-there-be-dragons everyone knows so no reason to repeat it here
68 2010-11-21 00:51:03 <jgarzik> theymos: that's surprising. If it matters to you, that will save you some bot bandwidth.
69 2010-11-21 00:51:05 <Kiba> whatever the case, I don't vote.
70 2010-11-21 00:51:08 <Kiba> and I don't intend to vote.
71 2010-11-21 00:51:13 <Kiba> democracy are for fools.
72 2010-11-21 00:51:24 <Kiba> a way for the majority to plunder the rest.
73 2010-11-21 00:51:26 <uberjar> when you vote you're giving your consent to be ruled under this particular system
74 2010-11-21 00:51:29 <lfm> kiba people get the goverment they want
75 2010-11-21 00:51:41 <xelister> no matter voting or not voting, this is how usa gov. operates, and this is how MOST people behave more or less unfortante
76 2010-11-21 00:51:44 <jgarzik> people get the government that momentum wants
77 2010-11-21 00:51:45 <jgarzik> :)
78 2010-11-21 00:51:47 <xelister> of course not eveyrone is the same
79 2010-11-21 00:52:06 <jgarzik> how else to explain election of a n00b
80 2010-11-21 00:52:08 <joose> democracy sucks because it is so easy to condition and control people in a way that will make them vote themselves into getting raped
81 2010-11-21 00:52:31 <Kiba> no, they votes to rape others
82 2010-11-21 00:52:35 <Kiba> particularly the eldery.
83 2010-11-21 00:52:42 <lfm> joose just the alternatives are worse
84 2010-11-21 00:52:47 <Kiba> damn, medicaid, and medicare.
85 2010-11-21 00:53:02 <Kiba> err
86 2010-11-21 00:53:03 <joose> yeah, a bunch of brain dead old people watching TV, barely alive. thats your voters
87 2010-11-21 00:53:20 <joose> lfm: would any of us know?
88 2010-11-21 00:53:20 <Kiba> they want their social security
89 2010-11-21 00:53:28 <Kiba> at the expense of their children.
90 2010-11-21 00:53:36 <Kiba> and their children's children
91 2010-11-21 00:53:43 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/bbe/tx/2d82b522277d9d70a33e81400fae9b17e4fb4d5a23157b76eee6799d2f19f488 looks like somebody is trying to "steal" from the Bitcoin Faucet
92 2010-11-21 00:53:54 <lfm> whereas the non-voters are all bright young beautiful people huh
93 2010-11-21 00:54:02 <jgarzik> tx consolidates a bunch of faucet receipts, it looks like
94 2010-11-21 00:54:11 <xelister> but averaged American thinks highly of himself
95 2010-11-21 00:54:18 <xelister> would you say any of you support raping children?
96 2010-11-21 00:54:37 <xelister> of course not, you would murder such a rapist on spot
97 2010-11-21 00:54:39 <joose> i bet someone in here would
98 2010-11-21 00:54:42 <jgarzik> and their children's children's children. and their children's children's children's children. Curse you, People's Front of Judea.
99 2010-11-21 00:54:43 <uberjar> so you're asking if there are any catholics present ?
100 2010-11-21 00:54:53 <xelister> then why is your army raping children and the killing them and their families
101 2010-11-21 00:54:55 <jgarzik> and the Popular Front. Splitters!
102 2010-11-21 00:54:58 <xelister> and your taxes pay for it
103 2010-11-21 00:55:11 <uberjar> not to mention your religious leaders
104 2010-11-21 00:55:13 <nameless> |<so far off topic>
105 2010-11-21 00:55:14 <joose> xelister: the same reason we dont have healthcare
106 2010-11-21 00:55:17 <theymos> jgarzik: All of the page data is fetched on-the-fly, currently without caching. I don't think Last-Modified data would be valuable in this case.
107 2010-11-21 00:55:19 <nameless> |Any one here play mirian
108 2010-11-21 00:55:22 <xelister> and why then said rapists comes home, to get funny "sentence" of 4 or 6 years in prison for RAPING AND KILLING CHILDREN AND ENTIRE FAIMILY? how?
109 2010-11-21 00:55:29 <nameless> |*miriani
110 2010-11-21 00:55:43 <Kiba> taxes?
111 2010-11-21 00:55:47 <Kiba> it's theft, pure and simple.
112 2010-11-21 00:56:12 <xelister> you THINK you are against child abuse, corruption, murder, against racism and so on - but IN FACT, when childrens are killed and raped in iraq you couldn't care less
113 2010-11-21 00:56:45 <Kiba> xelister: if you tone down your balant blanket blame of Americans
114 2010-11-21 00:56:49 <jgarzik> theymos: it reduces the bot query frequency, if the bot gets back 301-not-modified (which Apache will generate, based on conditional http headers sent by the bot).
115 2010-11-21 00:56:50 <Kiba> and also, please provide citations.
116 2010-11-21 00:56:53 <xelister> well this is probably case for most other nations too, just USA is most proud of itself and most smug ;) This is, imho, why almost everyone in EU thinks USA == arrogand savages
117 2010-11-21 00:57:09 <Kiba> I don't know what other people thinks.
118 2010-11-21 00:57:10 <jgarzik> theymos: so it changes the google cache refresh frequency, even if you do no caching at all on your side
119 2010-11-21 00:57:19 <xelister> Kiba: google it (g2g)
120 2010-11-21 00:57:30 <Kiba> but xelister you make assertion, you provide the evidence.
121 2010-11-21 00:57:31 <uberjar> xelister, everything the US learned about raping and killing it learned from Great Britian
122 2010-11-21 00:57:37 <theymos> jgarzik: Does Apache do that automatically? Maybe I am doing it.
123 2010-11-21 00:57:40 <lfm> ah so bitcoins is being use to launder terrosit funding! now it will be jumpped on!
124 2010-11-21 00:57:48 <uberjar> the British empire has way more blood on it's hands
125 2010-11-21 00:57:58 <xelister> Kiba: ok I back for a moment being, ok
126 2010-11-21 00:58:17 <jgarzik> theymos: bot passed If-Modified-Since header, which will return only headers if-and-only-if your CGI script returns a Last-Modified header for comparison. With no basis for comparison, Apache cannot perform that optimization.
127 2010-11-21 00:58:40 <xelister> CNN: A former U.S. soldier could face the death penalty after being convicted of raping a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and killing her and her family.
128 2010-11-21 00:58:43 <jgarzik> ...returns a Last-Modified header, and the LM header is older than If-Modified-Since input.
129 2010-11-21 00:58:57 <xelister> oh wait, death penalty. That is against my point :) Let me google the other example.
130 2010-11-21 00:59:11 <lfm> hehe
131 2010-11-21 00:59:31 <uberjar> bitcoin related noob question: Is the bitcoin network supposed to be resistant to a "hacker attack" ? Couldn't any old script kiddy with a modest botnet of a few hundred thousand nodes easily create his own client and take over the network ?
132 2010-11-21 00:59:49 <jgarzik> uberjar: only if the botnet has good graphics cards
133 2010-11-21 00:59:52 <Kiba> uberjar: he have to fight against GPU farms
134 2010-11-21 00:59:52 <lfm> uberjar, why would they?
135 2010-11-21 01:00:06 <Kiba> plus, he would compromise the integrity of bitcoins
136 2010-11-21 01:00:10 <uberjar> lfm, look at the attack the RIAA made against torrent sites
137 2010-11-21 01:00:12 <Kiba> AND make bitcoins worthless
138 2010-11-21 01:00:34 <uberjar> I see.. so it's not about number of nodes it's about GPU power
139 2010-11-21 01:00:45 <Kiba> it's about hashing rate
140 2010-11-21 01:00:56 <jgarzik> uberjar: total CPU power (and currently, GPU's have more power than most CPUs)
141 2010-11-21 01:00:56 <uberjar> so a nice beowulf cluster made out of PS3s could do the trick
142 2010-11-21 01:01:09 <jgarzik> probably not
143 2010-11-21 01:01:09 <lfm> uberjar, the riaa is trying to stop millions of dollars lost to pricay. what would motivate a botnet such as you propose? There isn't that much money in bitcoin
144 2010-11-21 01:01:12 <Kiba> assuming, he got enough of PS3s
145 2010-11-21 01:01:19 <jgarzik> PS3 graphics engine is nowhere near ATI
146 2010-11-21 01:01:35 <jgarzik> that's like getting a bunch of 486's
147 2010-11-21 01:01:44 <joose> no it couldnt, beowulf is old, antiquated bullshit
148 2010-11-21 01:01:49 <uberjar> lfm, I'm just saying.. if bitcoin ever does "take off" and get a fair amount of money in it.. it would be an easy target
149 2010-11-21 01:02:02 <jgarzik> uberjar: not really
150 2010-11-21 01:02:05 <joose> the PS3 has a nice processor
151 2010-11-21 01:02:08 <Kiba> bigger GPU farms, bigger difficulty
152 2010-11-21 01:02:17 <joose> and we dont use beowulf man, we use MPI and openMP
153 2010-11-21 01:02:19 <lfm> uberjar, if bitcoin ever does take off it would be a lot harder then to subvert
154 2010-11-21 01:02:20 <uberjar> amazon just rolled out it's GPU instances
155 2010-11-21 01:02:27 <Kiba> double spending = compromsing securities
156 2010-11-21 01:02:28 <jgarzik> uberjar: amazon uses NV... slow
157 2010-11-21 01:02:32 <Kiba> amazon cost money.
158 2010-11-21 01:02:33 <joose> there are a finite number of bitcoins, as a mathematical fact
159 2010-11-21 01:02:49 <Kiba> compromising securities = no money for script kiddie.
160 2010-11-21 01:02:53 <joose> it will limit itself
161 2010-11-21 01:02:58 <uberjar> so you're saying by the time bitcoin has a lot of money in it.. it would not be cost effective to use cloud computing to take over
162 2010-11-21 01:02:59 <joose> the mineing
163 2010-11-21 01:03:08 <uberjar> interesting
164 2010-11-21 01:03:09 <joose> absolutely
165 2010-11-21 01:03:13 <Kiba> cloud computing take money.
166 2010-11-21 01:03:18 <joose> yeah that too
167 2010-11-21 01:03:24 <lfm> uberjar, thats the plan, we will see we hope
168 2010-11-21 01:03:30 <Kiba> and you don't gain anything by destroying bitcoins, uberjar
169 2010-11-21 01:03:38 <jgarzik> uberjar: not only not cost effective... probably quite difficult, given the likely CPU power that will be in bitcoin in 12 months time
170 2010-11-21 01:03:38 <Kiba> only the government would gain anything.
171 2010-11-21 01:03:42 <jgarzik> or 24 months, ...
172 2010-11-21 01:03:43 <joose> i wana try top set up a mine, now, im not sure how easy it is to find them these days. I do have access to very very serious GPU power, teslas, a few
173 2010-11-21 01:03:59 <jgarzik> joose: you want ATI. NV is crap.
174 2010-11-21 01:04:07 <xelister> ok gound it
175 2010-11-21 01:04:08 <joose> i didnt buy them man
176 2010-11-21 01:04:15 <xelister> USA Marine accused of raping a 14-year-old Japanese girl was convicted to.... 4 years in prison
177 2010-11-21 01:04:18 <joose> i use NV by habbit from the early days when it always worked way better with *nix
178 2010-11-21 01:04:20 <uberjar> ok thanks those were good explainations. I'll read further
179 2010-11-21 01:04:23 <xelister> ^--- http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?1564663-Staff-Sgt.-Tyrone-L.-Hadnott-Lesser-charge-in-rape-case-gets-Marine-4-years
180 2010-11-21 01:04:27 <xelister> ^--- Kiba
181 2010-11-21 01:04:41 <lfm> xelister, that was BY JAPANESE court!
182 2010-11-21 01:04:43 <jgarzik> xelister: are these examples statistically relevant in any way? No. :)
183 2010-11-21 01:04:49 <Kiba> JAPANESE court?
184 2010-11-21 01:04:57 <joose> that marine will have his punishment. the rest of his life will be shit, for sure. not that it already isnt when your a marine, but a known child raping marine....
185 2010-11-21 01:05:04 <xelister> lfm: yeah, they always give 4 years to prison. I BET THE COURT WAS NOT LIKE, INFLUENCED BY USA, OR ANYTHING
186 2010-11-21 01:05:11 <joose> 1/3 of military women get raped
187 2010-11-21 01:05:11 <xelister> for rape of underaged
188 2010-11-21 01:05:20 <xelister> joose: what?
189 2010-11-21 01:05:25 <lfm> xelister, so who isnt influenced by someone
190 2010-11-21 01:05:30 <Kiba> xelister: dude, a man got the death plenty for killing an entire family
191 2010-11-21 01:05:42 <joose> 33% of women in the military have been raped in the military
192 2010-11-21 01:05:43 <Kiba> but this guy got convicted and spend 4 years in jail?
193 2010-11-21 01:05:45 <Kiba> DISPARENCY
194 2010-11-21 01:05:52 <xelister> USA solider negr^H afroamerican, had forced a civilian Japanes girl - raped her. And got 4 years
195 2010-11-21 01:05:53 <jgarzik> xelister: US military kills people and breaks things, and citizens pay tax money for this. Rape almost never occurs, so it is fallacious to assume people pay tax money for rape.
196 2010-11-21 01:05:56 <Kiba> joose: evidence?
197 2010-11-21 01:06:07 <xelister> if it would be my decission, that solider would be killed
198 2010-11-21 01:06:23 <xelister> and so would it be if usa president/gov would have balls or any sense of morality
199 2010-11-21 01:06:33 <xelister> and for this, the voters are responsible
200 2010-11-21 01:06:35 <Kiba> raping is traumatic, but you still have a life.
201 2010-11-21 01:06:47 <lfm> killing is not moral, not even death penalty is moral
202 2010-11-21 01:06:47 <uberjar> the US army is not raping as a policy like Japan did
203 2010-11-21 01:07:01 <uberjar> the Japanese systematically raped eveyr woman in Nan Ching
204 2010-11-21 01:07:02 <joose> http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/us/military.sexabuse_1_sexual-assault-sexual-abuse-military-service?_s=PM:US
205 2010-11-21 01:07:03 <uberjar> or however you spell it
206 2010-11-21 01:07:07 <xelister> Kiba: how much would you then reocommand for raping 14 year old girl
207 2010-11-21 01:07:23 <lfm> xelister, doesnt matter what age they are
208 2010-11-21 01:07:24 <Kiba> xelister: I don't know. A very expensive fine. And some years in prison. Like 10 years.
209 2010-11-21 01:07:26 <joose> the hurt, that is put upon a person by child rape, it lasts for GENERATIONS man
210 2010-11-21 01:07:35 <joose> my ex girl, her mom was raped by her dad
211 2010-11-21 01:07:36 <xelister> Americans are OH NOOOOE PEDOPHILES EVERYWHERE KILL THEM... but when their own "solider" actually RAPES someone (rapes as in forces, not as in - find 17 yo girl that loves him) - then 4 year sentence
212 2010-11-21 01:07:44 <jgarzik> tap tap tap
213 2010-11-21 01:07:48 <xelister> WHY was that solider not also convicted by usa court to 25 years or life
214 2010-11-21 01:07:50 <joose> and i have been dealing with the effects of this still, a generation and social connection later
215 2010-11-21 01:07:53 <jgarzik> xelister: soldier
216 2010-11-21 01:08:01 <lfm> xelister, I guess there are no pedophiles in your country
217 2010-11-21 01:08:05 <Kiba> Look, you're spectulating.
218 2010-11-21 01:08:17 <Kiba> you say the Japanese court is influenced, but you have no evidence
219 2010-11-21 01:08:26 <Kiba> how many years does a typical Japanese person get for raping?
220 2010-11-21 01:08:41 <xelister> lfm: people averywhere, always, liked sex with around girls that are sexually matured, and that happens around 14-16 depending on individual afair
221 2010-11-21 01:08:43 <joose> i wouldnt be surprised if its less than here
222 2010-11-21 01:08:44 <jgarzik> 40 minutes since last block. at higher difficulties, I wonder if the time between blocks varies more?
223 2010-11-21 01:08:58 <joose> how many hash per sec you got going jgarzik?
224 2010-11-21 01:09:04 <uberjar> Kiba, the japanese army systematically raped > 50k people within 6 days
225 2010-11-21 01:09:17 <joose> and hardware? GPU? where can you get the GPU miner code?
226 2010-11-21 01:09:18 <xelister> lfm: and some people learned to controll it, while other people totally do not controll any urges and even become actuall rapist (as in have forced sex, not as in have 16 years and find same-aged girl)
227 2010-11-21 01:09:19 <uberjar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
228 2010-11-21 01:09:21 <Kiba> uberjar: well, I don't mean that.. The American rpaist.
229 2010-11-21 01:09:26 <lfm> jgarzik, shouldnt
230 2010-11-21 01:09:26 <xelister> joose: forum. there are 2 miners
231 2010-11-21 01:09:46 <joose> ahh, the code public?
232 2010-11-21 01:09:54 <xelister> uberjar: where/when
233 2010-11-21 01:10:23 <xelister> uberjar: so they are stupid nation as well. Btw, my nations is probably also stupid in this way, dunno fortunatelly latelly there where no such incidents that I know of
234 2010-11-21 01:10:29 <uberjar> xelister, Nanking china December 13, 1937
235 2010-11-21 01:10:39 <Kiba> you're calling an entire people....stupid.
236 2010-11-21 01:10:41 <xelister> joose: yes
237 2010-11-21 01:10:50 <uberjar> I'm just saying as far as modern warfare goes the US military hardly does any raping
238 2010-11-21 01:10:52 <lfm> xelister, your nation is better at covering them up. doesnt make you better
239 2010-11-21 01:11:12 <xelister> Kiba: no, this do not apply to each person, but to nation and government and peraitlly culture/tradition as a whole.
240 2010-11-21 01:11:50 <xelister> lfm: if that is the fact then you are right. But Im not arguing that we are better. But we had far less military involvment. And certainly we are not fucking smug as Americans.
241 2010-11-21 01:11:56 <joose> ahh FUCK, thats right, its all for windows right? the miners
242 2010-11-21 01:12:07 <jgarzik> joose: plenty of Linux GPU miners
243 2010-11-21 01:12:07 <xelister> joose: no. they run perfect on linux
244 2010-11-21 01:12:18 <xelister> well "perfect" is a strong word, but they run after some configuration
245 2010-11-21 01:12:20 <jgarzik> the wiki needs a GPU mining page
246 2010-11-21 01:12:25 <jgarzik> for times like this
247 2010-11-21 01:12:28 <xelister> yea
248 2010-11-21 01:12:40 <xelister> with examples of setup, exact config, and the results + workarounds
249 2010-11-21 01:12:41 <Kiba> xelister: doesn't make sense.
250 2010-11-21 01:12:44 <lfm> xelister, so all smug people must die? interesting point of view. I don't think I will support it.
251 2010-11-21 01:13:06 <xelister> lfm: did I said someone should die? Other then rapists, that should (well, ok, or 25 to lifetime)
252 2010-11-21 01:13:27 <Kiba> incarnation is a cost to society.
253 2010-11-21 01:13:33 <Kiba> an expensive fine is better.
254 2010-11-21 01:13:50 <Kiba> but that could have hidden cost too..
255 2010-11-21 01:14:10 <lfm> kiba so rich people can afford to be criminals?
256 2010-11-21 01:14:12 <uberjar> it wouldn't be so expensive if the prisons were not packed full of non-violent drug offenders
257 2010-11-21 01:14:41 <Kiba> lfm: prisons have hidden cost too. Make people more violent.
258 2010-11-21 01:14:41 <uberjar> the prison industrial complex is big business though
259 2010-11-21 01:14:50 <xelister> my point was that, there is always war on something. That grows out of proportion and becomes ridiculous. Like war on "pedophiles" now means "two 17 years olds in love, are SEXUAL PREDATORS if they send each other OWN naked pictures". What the fuck. And on antoher hand, when someone ACTUALLY /RAPES/ a girl, he doesnt have too much trouble, 4 years in prison, meh, and zero (no trial) in USA. How this makes sense
260 2010-11-21 01:14:58 <uberjar> without the prison industry america would have no economy left at all :D
261 2010-11-21 01:15:26 <Kiba> xelister: how many years ago was that?
262 2010-11-21 01:15:28 <xelister> not to mention now "war on air terrorists" means "lets strip search everyone including 3 yeard old girls" - also this a bit conflicts with previous war on pedo ;)
263 2010-11-21 01:15:37 <lfm> xelister, well why have a trial if they plead guilty?
264 2010-11-21 01:16:13 <xelister> Kiba: it was in 2008 yaer
265 2010-11-21 01:16:16 <xelister> *year
266 2010-11-21 01:16:28 <xelister> Kiba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_in_Japan -> find "Hadnott"
267 2010-11-21 01:17:57 <xelister> lfm: in the end he got 4 years. For ACTUALL FORCING GIRL TO SEX / rape. While, you can get MUCH HIGHER sentences, for like: smoking a bit of weed in own home; touching boobie of 17 year old girl (even if you are yourslef in that age and she is your girlfriend and wanted to do it). And so on.
268 2010-11-21 01:18:09 <jgarzik> this is weird:
269 2010-11-21 01:18:09 <Kiba> xelister: fuck, this is so little information
270 2010-11-21 01:18:11 <jgarzik> http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/bbe/tx/4b3f52c3843cc7b01c24ec6dd2e04735a1069f360017bb4d68cd4b7a6b842e73
271 2010-11-21 01:18:19 <jgarzik> two inputs, 1 BTC each. two outputs, 1 BTC each.
272 2010-11-21 01:18:26 <jgarzik> seems like a non-standard transaction?
273 2010-11-21 01:18:42 <uberjar> American girls don't have to deal with squid monsters comming out of the sea and raping 5 or 6 girls at a time like they do in japan.
274 2010-11-21 01:18:53 <xelister> Kiba: yeah this sucks that wiki doesnt say more. If you are for /reall/ interested in fate of children (not just shouting "omg war on *") then why dont you google more (and please /msg me if anything - I may be afk)
275 2010-11-21 01:19:13 <xelister> uberjar: uh, what? ;)
276 2010-11-21 01:19:15 <jgarzik> 50% of that is a TX to self
277 2010-11-21 01:19:16 <Kiba> xelister: I don't have time to investigate one of the many injustice.
278 2010-11-21 01:19:21 <jgarzik> new kind of TX spam?
279 2010-11-21 01:19:26 <jgarzik> at least it's low volume.
280 2010-11-21 01:19:29 <Kiba> this is. One example.
281 2010-11-21 01:19:53 <Kiba> and no description of how proceeding goes and what the heck they found out
282 2010-11-21 01:20:06 <xelister> Kiba: yes, americans never have time to do that, what they do have time for, is shouting next whichhunt on soemthing, while continuing to think they are the most just, free, democratic and intelligent nation in the world. That was my point :)
283 2010-11-21 01:20:27 <Kiba> xelister: and you come to this conclusion, how?
284 2010-11-21 01:20:35 <xelister> of course I here refere to most of population, while some people can be in fact totally different
285 2010-11-21 01:20:41 <Kiba> by hearing my fellow idiotic Americans who are noationalist
286 2010-11-21 01:20:42 <uberjar> xelister, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentacle_erotica
287 2010-11-21 01:20:48 <tcatm> UukGoblin: are you around?
288 2010-11-21 01:20:57 <Kiba> msot of the population? How?
289 2010-11-21 01:21:05 <xelister> uberjar: sorry to bring the news to you, this hentai movies are not actually portraiting real-life events ;)
290 2010-11-21 01:21:36 <xelister> while that guy did actually hurt a girl - and look, noone gives two shits, even hard to google details on that
291 2010-11-21 01:21:44 <uberjar> it predates anime by at least a hundred years
292 2010-11-21 01:21:56 <uberjar> there are scrolls from japan that date back to 1814 that show giant squid having their way with women
293 2010-11-21 01:22:10 <Kiba> xelister: shit? People have jobs.
294 2010-11-21 01:22:20 <Kiba> their own problems to worry about.
295 2010-11-21 01:22:37 <xelister> well I have like 3 jobs and yet I took time to google it as requested
296 2010-11-21 01:22:48 <xelister> one of which is fixing either m0ms or diablo's miner =)
297 2010-11-21 01:22:54 <xelister> (or my box)
298 2010-11-21 01:23:09 <Kiba> xelister: sure. You have 3 jobs. You are interested in this topic. You are aware of it. How many millions are aware of tiny incidents amongst the news?
299 2010-11-21 01:23:37 <uberjar> you mean like tiger woods cheating on his wife ?
300 2010-11-21 01:23:41 <uberjar> I'd say most of the poplulation
301 2010-11-21 01:23:50 <Kiba> uberjar: well, I don't care.
302 2010-11-21 01:24:03 <theymos> jgarzik: Bitcoin does those useless change transactions pretty frequently. I don't know why.
303 2010-11-21 01:24:05 <xelister> Kiba: yeah - averaged American seems to not realize how much hurt his nation is doing -> which is the reason of beliving his nation is best and blessed by god, and nothing needs to be changed in the way it influences other people in and outside of usa
304 2010-11-21 01:24:17 <Kiba> xelister: and how you determine that exactly?
305 2010-11-21 01:24:22 <Kiba> did you survey random Americans?
306 2010-11-21 01:25:05 <Kiba> so you hate all Americans, despite saying that you don't hate some Americans.
307 2010-11-21 01:25:13 <xelister> well, america is alway starting war on OMG something
308 2010-11-21 01:25:15 <uberjar> there are a handful of liberal cities in the US where people are aware of US atrocities (new york, san francisco, portland, etc)
309 2010-11-21 01:25:18 <xelister> where something changes each 5-10 years
310 2010-11-21 01:25:23 <Kiba> and you say majority, but you don't give me how you come to this conclusion
311 2010-11-21 01:25:27 <xelister> as if there would be no more real and more pressing ACTUALL problems
312 2010-11-21 01:25:47 <theymos> jgarzik: If you look at Bitcoin Faucet transactions, you will see that maybe 1 in 10 transactions have a 0.05 input, a 7 input or whatever, and then sends 0.05 and change. Could be an intentional anonymity feature.
313 2010-11-21 01:26:18 <xelister> Kiba: it seems americans support gov in this. unless it directly affects them like in TSA scans case
314 2010-11-21 01:26:26 <Kiba> Like I say, HOW?
315 2010-11-21 01:26:36 <uberjar> by paying taxes
316 2010-11-21 01:26:39 <Kiba> what is the basis of your conclusion? What survey? statistics?
317 2010-11-21 01:26:39 <xelister> this is my general opinion from many sources from news to talks
318 2010-11-21 01:26:41 <xelister> you think Im wrong
319 2010-11-21 01:26:43 <xelister> also, waht uberjar said
320 2010-11-21 01:26:49 <uberjar> if you pay your federal income tax you're supporting the military industrial complex
321 2010-11-21 01:26:53 <Kiba> xelister: Don't assume you know what others think.
322 2010-11-21 01:26:58 <xelister> Kiba: you say I am wrong to think that most Americans do support things like
323 2010-11-21 01:27:00 <jgarzik> and the alternative to paying taxes is....?
324 2010-11-21 01:27:08 <Kiba> NO, I didn't say you're wrong.
325 2010-11-21 01:27:17 <Kiba> I am asking you how you come to this conclusion, specifically?
326 2010-11-21 01:27:30 <uberjar> the alternative to paying taxes is the creation of black markets
327 2010-11-21 01:27:35 <xelister> invading country to Destroy WoMDs ^H no wait, to remove the tyran.. ^H^H^H to bring the democracy... oh, btw that country has most oil (and afghan have tons of gold)
328 2010-11-21 01:27:44 <Kiba> uberjar: or JAIL. Face it, we're all pussies.
329 2010-11-21 01:27:53 <uberjar> hahhaa
330 2010-11-21 01:27:59 <xelister> allowing a rapist military guy to get laughtable 4 years in prison, instead of executing him before military court
331 2010-11-21 01:28:08 <Kiba> xelister: one EXAMPLE.
332 2010-11-21 01:28:19 <Kiba> how many people support the Iraq wars?
333 2010-11-21 01:28:31 <Kiba> 90%? 55% 25%?
334 2010-11-21 01:28:31 <xelister> apprently many, dont see any /effective/ protests
335 2010-11-21 01:28:34 <Kiba> I want, number.
336 2010-11-21 01:28:41 <xelister> > 50%
337 2010-11-21 01:28:47 <Kiba> xelister: then cite it.
338 2010-11-21 01:28:55 <xelister> > 50% voters, if the democracy actually works as it should. By definition
339 2010-11-21 01:29:04 <jgarzik> xelister: Back on topic for #bitcoin-dev... http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7754515/
340 2010-11-21 01:29:06 <Kiba> support the Iraq war, SPECIFICALLY
341 2010-11-21 01:29:14 <xelister> if you voted for a guy that does otherwise then you said, then you voted wrongly though
342 2010-11-21 01:29:21 <Kiba> xelister: 2003.
343 2010-11-21 01:29:28 <Kiba> 4 years of office.
344 2010-11-21 01:29:34 <Kiba> but 9/11 occurs on 2001.
345 2010-11-21 01:29:39 <xelister> Kiba: Im in ##politics , join me :)
346 2010-11-21 01:29:54 <Kiba> so you're saying we should vote Bushie out.
347 2010-11-21 01:30:05 <tcatm> theymos: to how many clients is your bitcoind connected?
348 2010-11-21 01:30:27 <theymos> tcatm: 33
349 2010-11-21 01:31:02 <xelister> Kiba: to end this offtopic for now (sorry, I dont want to cause too much flame here) - I think americans could at least stop looking so 'proud' about it. Ask some people in other countries do they think that americans think they are best
350 2010-11-21 01:31:09 <tcatm> can you send me a list of those ips?
351 2010-11-21 01:31:15 <Kiba> how 'proud' are teh Americans?
352 2010-11-21 01:31:21 <Kiba> percents
353 2010-11-21 01:31:22 <Kiba> surveys
354 2010-11-21 01:31:23 <LobsterMan> so bitcoin.exe just crashed on me.....lol
355 2010-11-21 01:31:34 <xelister> LobsterMan: woot... which revision?
356 2010-11-21 01:31:36 <LobsterMan> Faulting application name: bitcoin.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x4ce24d1a
357 2010-11-21 01:31:37 <Kiba> that what I want, not fussy saying.
358 2010-11-21 01:31:37 <LobsterMan> Faulting module name: bitcoin.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x4ce24d1a
359 2010-11-21 01:31:44 <LobsterMan> -.3.15
360 2010-11-21 01:31:53 <LobsterMan> svn r182or 812 it hink
361 2010-11-21 01:31:56 <uberjar> xelister, the British are just as proud to be occupying all the countries which they are occupying. French, Spanish, etc all proud
362 2010-11-21 01:32:01 <LobsterMan> svn r182 or 812 i think
363 2010-11-21 01:32:25 <theymos> tcatm: Why?
364 2010-11-21 01:32:35 <xelister> uberjar: I think they are less. Although they do suck as well ;) Kiba: I will continue in ##politics if you would like to join me. brb ~1h.
365 2010-11-21 01:32:53 <tcatm> theymos: i'm trying to track down the source of those spam TXs
366 2010-11-21 01:32:57 <Kiba> I am not taking a side, xelister
367 2010-11-21 01:33:01 <LobsterMan> changing to 186
368 2010-11-21 01:33:11 <xelister> LobsterMan: getwork does not work with 186 afaik
369 2010-11-21 01:33:25 <Kiba> I just wanted you to be less sloppy in explaining your dislike of Americans.
370 2010-11-21 01:33:30 <LobsterMan> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0 according ot this it does
371 2010-11-21 01:33:33 <xelister> LobsterMan: which miner you use? for me, m0m's hang since recently, and Diablo's either eats all cpu, or is 40% slower them m0m :((
372 2010-11-21 01:33:51 <LobsterMan> still using m0's
373 2010-11-21 01:34:02 <LobsterMan> m0's has worked for me mostly
374 2010-11-21 01:34:30 <xelister> Kiba: this is a general compiled felling from news, tv shows, talking to people, watching websites, reading about wars, and so on. Perahps I will have time to google some statistics for you too, as I googled that incidents. I will be afk now if anything then pleave me /msg :) Goodnight
375 2010-11-21 01:34:55 <xelister> LobsterMan: for me too, untill I upgraded ubuntu :[[[
376 2010-11-21 01:35:11 <LobsterMan> lol
377 2010-11-21 01:35:26 <xelister> if someone sees Diablo can you tell him Im looking for him to debug his slow as ***** miner ;)
378 2010-11-21 01:35:39 <xelister> 114m instead 160m
379 2010-11-21 01:36:05 <xelister> 114m instead 160m on SDK 2.1. On SDK 2.2 I get full 160m, but desktop is as slow as m0m's with -f 5
380 2010-11-21 01:38:23 <xelister> wait
381 2010-11-21 01:38:26 <xelister> ok...
382 2010-11-21 01:41:53 <xelister> Diablo's on SDK 2.2 with -f 200 have latencies a bit worse then m0m's and uses 200% cpu (m0m's used 100%). On lower -f it makes desktop unusable. AND On SDK 2.1, it always eats almost 0 cpu, even on -f 2, BUT it geneates just 113 M instead 160 M.
383 2010-11-21 01:43:13 <xelister> LobsterMan: how easy was the pyopencl installation under windows? Overall, did you had to build anything?
384 2010-11-21 01:45:56 <theymos> tcatm: I don't see how a list of IPs would help. You can already get a list of all online nodes by looking in your addr.dat file.
385 2010-11-21 01:46:25 <tcatm> ah just asking the nodes for more addrs works
386 2010-11-21 01:46:33 <tcatm> i just run into "too many open files" :)
387 2010-11-21 01:49:10 <jgarzik> tcatm: due to bitcoin? do you set any ulimit's?
388 2010-11-21 01:49:31 <jgarzik> tcatm: does netstat listen a bunch of bitcoin-related sockets?
389 2010-11-21 01:49:36 <jgarzik> s/listen/list/
390 2010-11-21 01:50:18 <xelister> tcatm: ulimit -n or -a and read
391 2010-11-21 01:50:26 <tcatm> i hacked a client to connect to as many nodes as possible and print a every transactions it receives with a timestamp
392 2010-11-21 01:50:34 <xelister> you uber node you
393 2010-11-21 01:50:42 <tcatm> i can then see which node sent which transactions first
394 2010-11-21 01:50:53 <xelister> same style of attack exist in freenet btw. well probably in all opennet like p2p
395 2010-11-21 01:51:20 <xelister> sad thing is even FN had not yet protect from fully from attack as tcatm described
396 2010-11-21 01:51:28 <jgarzik> tcatm: you're probably only seeing 10-20% of the network
397 2010-11-21 01:52:29 <jgarzik> still, you can indeed deduce popular relays
398 2010-11-21 01:53:43 <xelister> perhaps spammer is using tor
399 2010-11-21 01:54:05 <xelister> well anyway, just the client should be protected. If some kid can do it, then what can bigger company/corp do.
400 2010-11-21 01:57:33 <xelister> I suspect even developers may sometime do such attack, as a healthy training
401 2010-11-21 01:59:50 <theymos> The spammer is on this channel, so he's probably using Tor now...
402 2010-11-21 02:03:31 <tcatm> i should use threads :/
403 2010-11-21 02:04:00 <tcatm> 160 connections, 100% cpu usage
404 2010-11-21 02:04:08 <jgarzik> another block with 800+ TX's
405 2010-11-21 02:04:13 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,estimate
406 2010-11-21 02:04:14 <gribble> 6562.70475419
407 2010-11-21 02:06:16 <jgarzik> theymos: <shrug> it was only a matter of time until somebody ran "while (true) { send $foo message to network }"
408 2010-11-21 02:06:39 <jgarzik> so I tend to think these basic things (like Tor) are obvious
409 2010-11-21 02:07:15 <jgarzik> 5.08 blocks/hour, over past 24h
410 2010-11-21 02:09:42 <tcatm> there's one IP where 5x as many transactions are from than from others
411 2010-11-21 02:09:58 <theymos> Which one?
412 2010-11-21 02:10:22 <tcatm> 69.164.218.197
413 2010-11-21 02:10:33 <theymos> I am connected to him.
414 2010-11-21 02:13:04 <theymos> jgarzik: Yes.
415 2010-11-21 02:19:20 <xelister> what was my quit message?
416 2010-11-21 02:19:35 <xelister> my radeon crashe'd
417 2010-11-21 02:19:50 <theymos> Read error: Connection reset by peer
418 2010-11-21 02:21:08 <jgarzik> tcatm: in your 'Asks' column, it should sort in ascending, not descending, order
419 2010-11-21 02:21:24 <jgarzik> tcatm: so the highest bid, and lowest ask, are both shown in same screen location
420 2010-11-21 02:22:03 <jgarzik> theymos: do you have a BBE also watching testnet?
421 2010-11-21 02:22:23 <theymos> jgarzik: http://theymos.ath.cx:64150/testnet/bbe/
422 2010-11-21 02:24:28 <tcatm> jgarzik: fixed that. thanks. i had the ask list ontop the bids first and forgot to change it
423 2010-11-21 02:24:56 <jgarzik> tcatm: your stuff looks really nice. well done.
424 2010-11-21 02:25:42 <jgarzik> ah hah: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/TEST/
425 2010-11-21 02:26:21 <brocktice> Is it the spam that's dropping block production so much?
426 2010-11-21 02:26:27 <brocktice> Because people haven't updated getwork?
427 2010-11-21 02:26:29 <brocktice> still?
428 2010-11-21 02:27:00 <xelister> brocktice: you mean?
429 2010-11-21 02:27:06 <xelister> brocktice: version 183 should work fine?
430 2010-11-21 02:27:10 <xelister> Diablo-D3: oh, hai
431 2010-11-21 02:27:19 <jgarzik> brocktice: I don't think the spam is messing with block production much
432 2010-11-21 02:27:36 <brocktice> Well, older versions of getwork are vulnerable
433 2010-11-21 02:27:38 <xelister> Diablo-D3: frankly, your miner appears to suck at my config
434 2010-11-21 02:27:40 <jgarzik> comparatively, this "attack" is quite light, and the network is handling it well, IMO
435 2010-11-21 02:27:41 <brocktice> they rebuild the tx list every time
436 2010-11-21 02:29:16 <xelister> Diablo-D3: on sdk 2.2 it is as good as m0m but uses over 200% cpu! and on sdk 2.1 it uses alost 0 cpu but is 115 instead 160 Mhash
437 2010-11-21 02:30:09 <brocktice> xelister: 5xxx card?
438 2010-11-21 02:30:26 <xelister> brocktice: yea, 5770. I did edited the 3 lines in diablo's .cl
439 2010-11-21 02:30:36 <brocktice> hm
440 2010-11-21 02:30:45 <xelister> brocktice: btw how you check catalyst driver version
441 2010-11-21 02:30:48 <brocktice> I got slightly lower performance with his miner than m0's
442 2010-11-21 02:30:56 <brocktice> xelister: apt-cache show fglrx
443 2010-11-21 02:31:01 <brocktice> should give you an 8.something version
444 2010-11-21 02:31:13 <brocktice> that is not equal to catalyst version
445 2010-11-21 02:31:15 <brocktice> but you can infer it
446 2010-11-21 02:31:21 <xelister> 2:8.780-0ubuntu2
447 2010-11-21 02:31:31 <xelister> yeah, but how to check that not in package manager
448 2010-11-21 02:31:33 <brocktice> huh
449 2010-11-21 02:31:43 <brocktice> 8.780 is probably 10.9 or something?
450 2010-11-21 02:31:54 <brocktice> 10.10 is 8.783
451 2010-11-21 02:32:25 <brocktice> 8.753 is 10.7
452 2010-11-21 02:32:37 <brocktice> those are the two I know (10.10 and 10.7)
453 2010-11-21 02:33:06 <brocktice> xelister: but my performance difference was not that large
454 2010-11-21 02:33:13 <brocktice> xelister: weren't you writing your own too?
455 2010-11-21 02:33:34 <xelister> brocktice: I was going to use one as a base
456 2010-11-21 02:33:39 <xelister> diablo's have issues
457 2010-11-21 02:33:56 <xelister> m0m was hanging for me. but perhaps m0m is easier to install after all? on windows
458 2010-11-21 02:34:01 <brocktice> I have a daemon version of m0's that I'm still developing.
459 2010-11-21 02:34:03 <brocktice> https://github.com/brocktice/poclbm
460 2010-11-21 02:34:08 <brocktice> but it's geared to linux
461 2010-11-21 02:34:10 <xelister> LobsterMan: how you installed m0ms, needed to build anythingg?
462 2010-11-21 02:34:21 <brocktice> reminds me I need to push
463 2010-11-21 02:35:54 <brocktice> pushed
464 2010-11-21 02:36:28 <brocktice> jgarzik: if spam isn't messing with block production, what is?
465 2010-11-21 02:36:48 <brocktice> bitcoin watch is showing 5.17/hour for the last 24 hours
466 2010-11-21 02:37:04 <brocktice> unless it's attrition from the diff increase
467 2010-11-21 02:37:07 <xelister> I wonder which miner to base on. ideas? brocktice?
468 2010-11-21 02:37:31 <brocktice> xelister: I recommend m0m's/mine, if you're comfortable with python
469 2010-11-21 02:37:43 <brocktice> it's kind of the bare minimum
470 2010-11-21 02:37:50 <xelister> Im more comfortable wiht java I thought... but python is fine
471 2010-11-21 02:37:53 <xelister> code is triviall as shit
472 2010-11-21 02:37:57 <xelister> except the opencl part
473 2010-11-21 02:38:14 <brocktice> Diablo's doesn't change the opencl part anyway.
474 2010-11-21 02:38:18 <xelister> well m0m's was hanging for me. I wonder if it does it now as well
475 2010-11-21 02:38:33 <OneFixt> ;;bc,estimate
476 2010-11-21 02:38:34 <gribble> 6609.04572850
477 2010-11-21 02:38:48 <brocktice> OneFixt: bravo on the price slide call, btw
478 2010-11-21 02:38:51 <xelister> is the spam aimed at lowering diff?
479 2010-11-21 02:38:52 <brocktice> nice work
480 2010-11-21 02:38:57 <brocktice> xelister: I think it may be
481 2010-11-21 02:39:04 <OneFixt> brocktice: Thanks =)
482 2010-11-21 02:39:10 <xelister> but main miners are not affected, are they?
483 2010-11-21 02:39:15 <brocktice> that or punishing gpu miners that haven't updated their getwork
484 2010-11-21 02:39:22 <brocktice> main meaning cpu? no
485 2010-11-21 02:39:29 <xelister> so what is 183 status of affection by this? its latest rev that works with getwork patch in the current form by m0m
486 2010-11-21 02:39:49 <brocktice> xelister: the latest getwork patch fixes it
487 2010-11-21 02:39:51 <OneFixt> brocktice: I'm currently betting on price going up, even though it's not yet obvious.
488 2010-11-21 02:39:54 <brocktice> I have no slowdowns.
489 2010-11-21 02:40:04 <brocktice> OneFixt: I think with diff up supply is going to finally be reduced, so I agree.
490 2010-11-21 02:40:08 <xelister> brocktice: which getwork patch? used on which bitcoind revision?
491 2010-11-21 02:40:15 <brocktice> xelister: latest of m0's
492 2010-11-21 02:40:18 <brocktice> let me check revision
493 2010-11-21 02:40:19 <OneFixt> brocktice: My thoughts exactly.
494 2010-11-21 02:40:44 <brocktice> that's strange, "svnversion ." reports "exported"
495 2010-11-21 02:40:47 <brocktice> never seen that before
496 2010-11-21 02:41:02 <brocktice> oh, duh
497 2010-11-21 02:41:05 <xelister> you did svn export and cd into that?
498 2010-11-21 02:41:06 <brocktice> that's a git repository
499 2010-11-21 02:41:09 <xelister> lol
500 2010-11-21 02:41:22 <brocktice> I have 181
501 2010-11-21 02:41:27 <xelister> 181 is old
502 2010-11-21 02:41:34 <xelister> 183 works still with getwork
503 2010-11-21 02:42:00 <brocktice> getwork was updated with the necessary workaround first to match 181
504 2010-11-21 02:42:02 <xelister> how do I see if my node is affected? I generate coins like x2 slower? and any more obvious instantly hints?
505 2010-11-21 02:42:06 <brocktice> and it's working fine for me
506 2010-11-21 02:42:10 <brocktice> xelister: bitcoind getwork
507 2010-11-21 02:42:16 <brocktice> should be mostly instantaneous
508 2010-11-21 02:42:25 <brocktice> if tx flooding is going on and you're affected, it can take several seconds
509 2010-11-21 02:42:37 <brocktice> you'll see your GPU use percentages dropping periodically, whenever getwork is called
510 2010-11-21 02:47:53 <xelister> yeah diablo's miner is slower and takes more cpu
511 2010-11-21 02:49:37 <brocktice> xelister: Apparently it's faster with 2.2
512 2010-11-21 02:57:01 <tcatm> should i quantize the order book to 2 or 3 decimal places?
513 2010-11-21 02:57:04 <xelister> this. sucks. donkey. cocks.
514 2010-11-21 02:57:45 <xelister> apparently running any opengl application when EITHER of miners is running, results in X/fglrx hanging
515 2010-11-21 02:57:55 <xelister> with high 'success' rate
516 2010-11-21 02:58:14 <xelister> if you run serveral windows of ice amoeba -nosound -windowed -800x600 then do you see same problems? apt-get install amoeba
517 2010-11-21 02:58:32 <xelister> try also stopping the amoeba by pressing ctrl-Z in its console. this 'worked' 2 out of 10 tries
518 2010-11-21 02:58:42 <brocktice> hm, I can try it tomorrow
519 2010-11-21 02:58:45 <brocktice> I'm not by the miner right now
520 2010-11-21 02:58:49 <xelister> takes 20 min
521 2010-11-21 02:58:51 <xelister> ah ok
522 2010-11-21 02:59:08 <xelister> this all stuff is unstable as shit :<
523 2010-11-21 02:59:10 <brocktice> also I'm about 5 min from bedtime :)
524 2010-11-21 02:59:18 <xelister> ArtForz: what linux distro you run again?
525 2010-11-21 02:59:20 <brocktice> xelister: you're not running it as a dedicated miner huh?
526 2010-11-21 02:59:23 <brocktice> I think debian
527 2010-11-21 02:59:27 <xelister> I think also
528 2010-11-21 02:59:31 <xelister> no, its also desktop
529 2010-11-21 02:59:43 <brocktice> I'm going to be switching to 5770s in my workstation here on Tuesday
530 2010-11-21 02:59:49 <brocktice> for eyefinity
531 2010-11-21 02:59:55 <xelister> well anyhow this means radeons are not good on linux is apps can hang X server
532 2010-11-21 03:00:08 <brocktice> I'll probably start trying to mine on that when not in use, so I may hit these issues then.
533 2010-11-21 03:00:25 <xelister> brocktice: what cards you have?
534 2010-11-21 03:00:27 <brocktice> xelister: right now two 5970s in the miner, water cooled
535 2010-11-21 03:00:34 <xelister> WHAT CARD YOU HAVE? / SHOW ME YOUR CARDS <--- a totally new meaning, thanks to bitcoin :D
536 2010-11-21 03:00:37 <brocktice> I also have an air-cooled 5770 I just dropped in but it was overheating and stressing the PSU
537 2010-11-21 03:00:49 <brocktice> it's going in the workstation when the other 5770 gets here
538 2010-11-21 03:00:54 <brocktice> I apparently needed an eyefinity 5 card
539 2010-11-21 03:01:02 <brocktice> regular 5770 can't drive four displays, only 3
540 2010-11-21 03:01:05 <brocktice> despite having 4 ports
541 2010-11-21 03:01:19 <brocktice> because the hdmi port is actually wired to one of the DVIs
542 2010-11-21 03:01:22 <brocktice> or something
543 2010-11-21 03:02:31 <xelister> what it is about paytxfee? should I set it on my node?
544 2010-11-21 03:02:36 <brocktice> before water cooling and without 5770: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brocktice/5143440063/
545 2010-11-21 03:02:48 <brocktice> xelister: I don't think so, I think that's for sending
546 2010-11-21 03:02:59 <brocktice> for mining I don't believe it makes any difference
547 2010-11-21 03:03:09 <brocktice> once I clean up the water cooling setup I'll post a pic of that
548 2010-11-21 03:03:21 <brocktice> it's fugly right now
549 2010-11-21 03:03:22 <xelister> cool
550 2010-11-21 03:03:42 <xelister> 1000 W ;] how much it costs?
551 2010-11-21 03:03:46 <brocktice> $200
552 2010-11-21 03:03:59 <brocktice> to go to 1.3kW it's around 260-300
553 2010-11-21 03:04:04 <brocktice> should have got that though to start with
554 2010-11-21 03:04:07 <brocktice> better expandability
555 2010-11-21 03:04:44 <xelister> 1000 W
556 2010-11-21 03:04:47 <xelister> thats more the water boiler
557 2010-11-21 03:04:57 <xelister> :)
558 2010-11-21 03:05:06 <brocktice> brb
559 2010-11-21 03:11:34 <Diablo-D3> [10:48:05] * xelister beats up Diablo-D3 with a wooden club for false advertising ;)
560 2010-11-21 03:11:35 <Diablo-D3> [10:49:37] <brocktice> xelister: Apparently it's faster with 2.2
561 2010-11-21 03:11:42 <Diablo-D3> no, its faster with 2.1
562 2010-11-21 03:16:45 <xelister> Diablo-D3: no, it is slower
563 2010-11-21 03:16:53 <xelister> on this box
564 2010-11-21 03:17:14 <xelister> 2.2 170% cpu by java + 30% cpu by xorg, around optimal speed 160,
565 2010-11-21 03:17:25 <xelister> 2.1 ~10% cpu by java + ~10% cpu by xorg, but speed is 115
566 2010-11-21 03:18:07 <xelister> btw, m0m's on 2.1sdk has both low-cpu, and full speed. I wonder if it stoped hanging itself
567 2010-11-21 03:18:56 <xelister> Diablo-D3: would you like to debug this in next days? best around 12:00 - 3:00 in +02:00 time zone
568 2010-11-21 03:19:47 <xelister> this box == ubuntu 10.10 64 bit with current fglrx, quad core cpu
569 2010-11-21 03:24:51 <brocktice> ok, I'm back but now I'm going
570 2010-11-21 03:24:56 <brocktice> be back tomorrow
571 2010-11-21 03:25:26 <xelister> Diablo-D3: if you add any debug code, tell me how to get it and I wil try it
572 2010-11-21 03:44:22 <jgarzik> theymos: BBE is refusing connections
573 2010-11-21 03:49:00 <jgarzik> brocktice: how loud are the 5970's, when running full steam?
574 2010-11-21 03:54:29 <theymos> jgarzik: I know. I'm recompiling Apache. It'll be back online in a little while.
575 2010-11-21 03:55:56 <theymos> Thanks for telling me, though.
576 2010-11-21 03:57:14 <Diablo-D3> xelister: theres nothing to really debug here
577 2010-11-21 03:57:19 <Diablo-D3> theres no reason why it should be slower.
578 2010-11-21 03:57:25 <Diablo-D3> I suspect m0 just doesn't account correctly
579 2010-11-21 04:02:45 <theymos> BBE is back.
580 2010-11-21 04:03:40 <OneFixt> I have a question about the hashing in bitcoin.
581 2010-11-21 04:03:48 <Diablo-D3> [11:17:14] <xelister> 2.2 170% cpu by java + 30% cpu by xorg, around optimal speed 160,
582 2010-11-21 04:03:51 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
583 2010-11-21 04:04:07 <OneFixt> If I have a system with a throughput of 1000Mbps, what does that get me in terms of bitcoins hashes per second?
584 2010-11-21 04:05:23 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: hrm, good question
585 2010-11-21 04:05:29 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: because mbps makes no sense in this context
586 2010-11-21 04:05:38 <OneFixt> well it's megabits of hashed data
587 2010-11-21 04:05:44 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: if the system has a high new hash setup cost, then there is a problem
588 2010-11-21 04:06:02 <Diablo-D3> and not only that, the number will not reflect more optimized usage when available
589 2010-11-21 04:06:32 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: that said, divide by 256
590 2010-11-21 04:06:54 <Diablo-D3> er wait
591 2010-11-21 04:07:10 <Diablo-D3> that'd be for megabyte per second
592 2010-11-21 04:07:20 <OneFixt> I guess the question would be this: What's the size of the "blah" that gets hashed into one sha256 hash?
593 2010-11-21 04:07:28 <Diablo-D3> divide by 2048
594 2010-11-21 04:07:45 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: each step of input is 128 bytes
595 2010-11-21 04:07:51 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: even if the whole input is less than 128
596 2010-11-21 04:08:05 <Diablo-D3> and Im fudging that slightly... its less than 128
597 2010-11-21 04:08:52 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: the entire bitcoin header takes two passes for example
598 2010-11-21 04:08:55 <jgarzik> block header is 80 bytes, I'm pretty sure
599 2010-11-21 04:09:13 <Diablo-D3> wait, maybe I have my math wrong
600 2010-11-21 04:09:13 <jgarzik> OneFixt: and don't forget it's sha256(sha256(data))
601 2010-11-21 04:09:16 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: yes
602 2010-11-21 04:09:17 <Diablo-D3> ergo
603 2010-11-21 04:09:20 <Diablo-D3> 256 bytes
604 2010-11-21 04:10:22 <Diablo-D3> whoops
605 2010-11-21 04:10:27 <Diablo-D3> its 64 bytes input per pass
606 2010-11-21 04:10:54 <OneFixt> So if I have a magic elf which hashes at 1000Mbps, how many useful bitcoin hashes per sec would I get out of it?
607 2010-11-21 04:10:55 <Diablo-D3> so the sha256(sha256()) requires 128 butes input
608 2010-11-21 04:11:02 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: divide by 8, divide by 128
609 2010-11-21 04:11:15 <Diablo-D3> so about 1 mhash/sec
610 2010-11-21 04:11:35 <Diablo-D3> thats assuming zero cost engine reset, and no available optimizations
611 2010-11-21 04:11:51 <OneFixt> hmm, pretty slow
612 2010-11-21 04:23:22 <OneFixt> what's the fastest hashing that anyone's done so far with an fpga?
613 2010-11-21 04:24:29 <jrabbit> too fast
614 2010-11-21 04:25:32 <jgarzik> sha256 isn't very parallel, is it?
615 2010-11-21 04:25:46 <OneFixt> I seem to remember that it is actually.
616 2010-11-21 04:25:59 <jgarzik> seems like you'd have more luck putting a ton of sha256 cores on an fpga, than making sha256 massively parallel
617 2010-11-21 04:26:35 <jgarzik> each round is dependent upon the previous round, is it not?
618 2010-11-21 04:27:10 <AAA_awright> For bitcoin? No
619 2010-11-21 04:27:54 <jgarzik> AAA_awright: internal SHA rounds, not talking about a full sha256 iteration
620 2010-11-21 04:28:52 <OneFixt> how many rounds do you need for one bitcoin hash?
621 2010-11-21 04:29:17 <AAA_awright> The point is does it matter? You can parallelize multiple hashes at the same time
622 2010-11-21 04:30:04 <jgarzik> sha1 is pointedly more internally parallel (vectorize-able) than sha256
623 2010-11-21 04:30:26 <jgarzik> AAA_awright: thank you for repeating what I said :)
624 2010-11-21 04:31:21 <OneFixt> one bitcoin hash is... 122 rounds of sha256?
625 2010-11-21 04:31:26 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: sha256 is parallel in the mining sense
626 2010-11-21 04:31:36 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: btw, its not about rounds
627 2010-11-21 04:31:52 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: theres other shit you have to do to prepare the process
628 2010-11-21 04:32:06 <OneFixt> yeah, but you can optimize it separately
629 2010-11-21 04:32:25 <Diablo-D3> partially
630 2010-11-21 04:32:28 <Diablo-D3> look at the opencl
631 2010-11-21 04:32:35 <Diablo-D3> you cant optimize between the two hashes
632 2010-11-21 04:32:42 <Diablo-D3> you can only optimize the setup of the first one
633 2010-11-21 04:33:04 <Diablo-D3> and btw, each sha256 is 64 rounds
634 2010-11-21 04:33:25 <Diablo-D3> we can optimize away the first three if we can upload the internal state to the engine
635 2010-11-21 04:33:41 <Diablo-D3> and we can optimize away the last three if the engine allows us to
636 2010-11-21 04:33:59 <Diablo-D3> we can optimize the setup for the first hash (again, if the engine lets us), but we can't for the second
637 2010-11-21 04:34:21 <Diablo-D3> we also can't use a lot of typical optimizations due to it being sha256(sha256())
638 2010-11-21 04:34:59 <Diablo-D3> and there may not be a viable way of doing it anyhow
639 2010-11-21 04:35:08 <Diablo-D3> I mean, lets say we ran a 128 round sha256 instead
640 2010-11-21 04:35:20 <Diablo-D3> we'd have to rewind more than 64 rounds to do it
641 2010-11-21 04:35:35 <Diablo-D3> we wouldn't actually save anything over how we write miners for gpus
642 2010-11-21 04:35:57 <Diablo-D3> we're not guessing sha256 output, we're filtering for very specific output
643 2010-11-21 04:36:08 <Diablo-D3> so we get some optimizations that we wouldnt get, and we lose out on others
644 2010-11-21 04:36:47 <OneFixt> thanks
645 2010-11-21 04:36:55 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: btw
646 2010-11-21 04:36:59 <Diablo-D3> 1mhash is really fucking slow
647 2010-11-21 04:37:17 <Diablo-D3> due to he fact its solving the wrong problem
648 2010-11-21 04:37:35 <Diablo-D3> fpga are for developers to design new asics and alus
649 2010-11-21 04:37:49 <Diablo-D3> they're not meant to run software on to actually run the software
650 2010-11-21 04:38:06 <Diablo-D3> what you'd want is a fpga to help you design a sha256 engine that does exactly what we want
651 2010-11-21 04:38:25 <Diablo-D3> and then have some chinese fab fab like a million of these
652 2010-11-21 04:38:39 <OneFixt> hmm
653 2010-11-21 04:39:02 <Diablo-D3> it'd cost like a million dollars, and require a room of equipment to run all these new asics but
654 2010-11-21 04:39:15 <Diablo-D3> you'd make all other mining efforts dissapear
655 2010-11-21 04:39:24 <Diablo-D3> up to the point you'd drive the difficulty to infinity
656 2010-11-21 04:39:49 <Diablo-D3> and bitcoin would have to back the difficulty off because you ran out of space to guess new hashes
657 2010-11-21 04:42:23 <Diablo-D3> if the difficulty is "it must start with 257 zero bits" you may have a problem
658 2010-11-21 04:43:12 <OneFixt> hehe
659 2010-11-21 04:45:06 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: you still need to hire a computer engineer though
660 2010-11-21 04:45:17 <Diablo-D3> which is variably expensive
661 2010-11-21 04:45:27 <Diablo-D3> and they're somewhat rare
662 2010-11-21 04:45:41 <Diablo-D3> theres not many people who have, say, phds in both CS and EE
663 2010-11-21 04:47:01 <Diablo-D3> but here comes the REAL problem
664 2010-11-21 04:47:11 <nanotube> isn't that what part of the million is for? :)
665 2010-11-21 04:47:13 <AAA_awright> Ooh you are talking about vectors?
666 2010-11-21 04:47:13 <Diablo-D3> modern CPU design isn't what people think it is
667 2010-11-21 04:47:30 <Diablo-D3> its about designing extremely fast ALUs that speak a very very very limited language
668 2010-11-21 04:47:34 <AAA_awright> ...well still, you can do multiple hashes in a vector calculation
669 2010-11-21 04:47:43 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: no we're not talking about that
670 2010-11-21 04:47:52 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: we're talking dedicated chip design specifically for bitcoin
671 2010-11-21 04:48:01 <Diablo-D3> not even just sha256 in general, but specifically for bitcoin
672 2010-11-21 04:48:27 <AAA_awright> Have you identified the differences?
673 2010-11-21 04:48:28 <Diablo-D3> so, back to what I was saying: CPUs have rather large ALUs that do stuff in an extremely fast but precise manner
674 2010-11-21 04:48:44 <Diablo-D3> GPGPUs, the way they are designed modernly, is even more closer to this
675 2010-11-21 04:48:52 <AAA_awright> If it helps any I think Git has been tackling this problem too
676 2010-11-21 04:48:54 <Diablo-D3> they do exactly one thing, and they do it well
677 2010-11-21 04:49:02 <Diablo-D3> and guess what they do well?
678 2010-11-21 04:49:38 <Diablo-D3> a series of simple instructions that are (nearly) branchless and operate on different inputs in massively parallel designs
679 2010-11-21 04:50:03 <Diablo-D3> they do it extremely well, they are mass produced to the point they are very cheap, and they are designed by hundred man teams smarter than anyone we could hire
680 2010-11-21 04:50:37 <Diablo-D3> gpgpus are almost designed for tasks like bitcoin in mind
681 2010-11-21 04:50:46 <Diablo-D3> geforces not so much just because they have shitty integer performance
682 2010-11-21 04:50:59 <Diablo-D3> but radeons, they're almost beautiful in design
683 2010-11-21 04:51:20 <Diablo-D3> do you know why radeons the way they are now came into being?
684 2010-11-21 04:51:26 <Diablo-D3> someone finally defined "the problem"
685 2010-11-21 04:51:35 <Diablo-D3> what are gpus _actually_ doing
686 2010-11-21 04:51:45 <Diablo-D3> "well, they're doing math!"
687 2010-11-21 04:51:48 <Diablo-D3> thats what the first did
688 2010-11-21 04:51:56 <Diablo-D3> they wern't gpus at all, but dedicated math coprocessors of some sort
689 2010-11-21 04:52:15 <Diablo-D3> they were designed to do the kind of math 3D graphics needed very quickly
690 2010-11-21 04:52:28 <Diablo-D3> but a large part of the pipeline wasn't handled by them
691 2010-11-21 04:52:43 <Diablo-D3> sure, many were paired with dedicated blitting hardware to deal with pixel pushing quickly
692 2010-11-21 04:52:50 <Diablo-D3> but it still wasn't a whole design
693 2010-11-21 04:53:08 <Diablo-D3> so they developed texture caches, dedicated hardware that could deal with 2D memory layouts efficiently
694 2010-11-21 04:53:28 <Diablo-D3> but you STILL didn't have the whole solution
695 2010-11-21 04:53:41 <Diablo-D3> all it could do is render a limited form of textures a specific way
696 2010-11-21 04:53:48 <Diablo-D3> and do the math to setup the triangles
697 2010-11-21 04:53:53 <Diablo-D3> and shove the output into a framebuffer
698 2010-11-21 04:53:58 <Diablo-D3> this is what we had before programmable shaders
699 2010-11-21 04:54:13 <Diablo-D3> they were fast, they were massively parallel, but no one defined the actual problem
700 2010-11-21 04:54:23 <Diablo-D3> and then DING! they did
701 2010-11-21 04:54:44 <nanotube> hehe, a brief history of gpus, eh? :)
702 2010-11-21 04:54:58 <Diablo-D3> "they're doing tiny little programs in a massively SIMD way, where instead of the I being a single instruction, it was a series of them"
703 2010-11-21 04:55:30 <Diablo-D3> so they stopped hard coding circuits for specific applications, and built ALUs that ran through multiple instructions
704 2010-11-21 04:55:31 <OneFixt> ArtForz: How much are you getting your pci extenders for?
705 2010-11-21 04:55:46 <Diablo-D3> they stopped doing that on CPUs years ago
706 2010-11-21 04:55:55 <Diablo-D3> what do you think the microcode and programmable x86 decoder does?
707 2010-11-21 04:56:07 <Diablo-D3> it turns it into something more suitable for a proper ALU design
708 2010-11-21 04:56:38 <Diablo-D3> so the GPGPU guys defined the problem as "massively parallel short unbranching programs"
709 2010-11-21 04:56:51 <Diablo-D3> and that show modern GPU ALUs are designed
710 2010-11-21 04:57:18 <Diablo-D3> it shoves things in and out of gigantic register banks, and has all the pipelines in the ALU run the same program, but with different inputs
711 2010-11-21 04:57:42 <Diablo-D3> geforce borks this by only being SIMD on the instruction level, where the computation units continually bang the ALUs
712 2010-11-21 04:58:26 <Diablo-D3> radeons optimize this by allowing ALUs to be "wider" and get entire sections of code
713 2010-11-21 04:58:37 <Diablo-D3> and the ALUs manage the execution of the sub block by themselves
714 2010-11-21 04:58:50 <Diablo-D3> so you dont have to constantly move stuff in and out of ALUs
715 2010-11-21 04:59:02 <Diablo-D3> radeon 5xxx alus do like 128 instructions at a whack
716 2010-11-21 04:59:22 <Diablo-D3> so you only have to push stuff in and out when the ALU is finished
717 2010-11-21 04:59:55 <Diablo-D3> the CU only does work when it has to communicate with the ALU, or it has to communicate with the memory controller
718 2010-11-21 05:00:05 <Diablo-D3> its a very optimized design
719 2010-11-21 05:00:58 <Diablo-D3> on a radeon, the register bank is double sided too
720 2010-11-21 05:01:13 <Diablo-D3> so the ALU can do it from one side, the CU can do it from the other
721 2010-11-21 05:01:42 <Diablo-D3> which also leads to suboptimal cases where you're using too many registers so you can't saturate the ALUs
722 2010-11-21 05:02:31 <Diablo-D3> you want batches of 64 things done at once on radeons; for us, we don't have a real problem
723 2010-11-21 05:02:46 <Diablo-D3> I don't think its possible to make it any faster
724 2010-11-21 05:03:33 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: so yeah
725 2010-11-21 05:03:37 <Diablo-D3> I think this should answer your question
726 2010-11-21 05:03:46 <Diablo-D3> we already have a perfect design
727 2010-11-21 05:04:27 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: Thanks, that answers it =)
728 2010-11-21 05:04:46 <Diablo-D3> cost is a bigger issue than anything else
729 2010-11-21 05:04:55 <Diablo-D3> I can go buy a shitload of radeons for a million dollars
730 2010-11-21 05:05:06 <Diablo-D3> and have the entire thing finished by the time you get your new chips back from china
731 2010-11-21 05:05:22 <OneFixt> I could buy all existing bitcoins for a million dollars ;)
732 2010-11-21 05:06:02 <Diablo-D3> yes, but thats outside of the problem area.
733 2010-11-21 05:08:56 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: also, as a side note
734 2010-11-21 05:09:09 <Diablo-D3> there is more value in having a "generic" processor designed for a specific use area
735 2010-11-21 05:09:22 <OneFixt> i agree
736 2010-11-21 05:09:32 <Diablo-D3> you have more customers which turns into more resources to refine it
737 2010-11-21 05:09:44 <Diablo-D3> what happens when bitcoin mining is done? your million dollar investment is now dead
738 2010-11-21 05:10:14 <Diablo-D3> yet, if we all bought radeons, they still have a purpose
739 2010-11-21 05:10:25 <Diablo-D3> and AMD is still in business selling to other people who have similar problems to ours
740 2010-11-21 05:10:35 <OneFixt> yes, agreed
741 2010-11-21 05:10:48 <OneFixt> unless you want to use that investment forever to sustain the bitcoin transaction system
742 2010-11-21 05:10:54 <Diablo-D3> not really worth it
743 2010-11-21 05:11:01 <OneFixt> no, most likely no
744 2010-11-21 05:11:02 <Diablo-D3> lets say we took every transaction made now
745 2010-11-21 05:11:12 <Diablo-D3> every visa/mc/whatever
746 2010-11-21 05:11:14 <Diablo-D3> every check
747 2010-11-21 05:11:18 <Diablo-D3> every bank transfer
748 2010-11-21 05:11:20 <Diablo-D3> everything
749 2010-11-21 05:11:23 <Diablo-D3> its all electronic now
750 2010-11-21 05:11:23 <OneFixt> I agree that GPUs are the best solution, just wanted to take a look around to be sure
751 2010-11-21 05:11:32 <Diablo-D3> I could run the entire thing on art's shit
752 2010-11-21 05:11:35 <Diablo-D3> the whole fucking world
753 2010-11-21 05:11:38 <Diablo-D3> on art's shit.
754 2010-11-21 05:11:38 <OneFixt> hehe
755 2010-11-21 05:12:02 <Diablo-D3> infact, there would be so many transactions flooding in that we couldnt feed the gpus fast enough
756 2010-11-21 05:12:17 <OneFixt> wouldn't the blocks fill up too fast?
757 2010-11-21 05:12:19 <Diablo-D3> so the actual transaction processing, mathwise, isnt even a real issue
758 2010-11-21 05:12:22 <OneFixt> and there be a backlog?
759 2010-11-21 05:12:26 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: well
760 2010-11-21 05:12:31 <Diablo-D3> we'd have to re-engineer the system
761 2010-11-21 05:12:41 <Diablo-D3> obviously a new block every 10 minutes is unacceptable
762 2010-11-21 05:12:52 <Diablo-D3> it'd probably be changed to a new block every time it gets full
763 2010-11-21 05:13:00 <Diablo-D3> which would be several times a second
764 2010-11-21 05:13:22 <OneFixt> then we'd get into some other conflicts, wouldn't we?
765 2010-11-21 05:13:26 <Diablo-D3> no
766 2010-11-21 05:13:31 <OneFixt> with the latency?
767 2010-11-21 05:13:32 <Diablo-D3> that'd be for the global reference
768 2010-11-21 05:13:42 <Diablo-D3> you and I would no longer make transactions
769 2010-11-21 05:13:51 <Diablo-D3> banks and dedicated transaction processors would
770 2010-11-21 05:14:32 <Diablo-D3> so, say, a few thousand banks in the world hold 99% of the actual wealth
771 2010-11-21 05:14:43 <Diablo-D3> a few hundred transaction processors do 99% of the transactions
772 2010-11-21 05:15:04 <Diablo-D3> everyone could settle their balances once every 10 minutes
773 2010-11-21 05:15:18 <Diablo-D3> and the actual makeup of those transactions wouldnt be in the main btc log
774 2010-11-21 05:15:27 <OneFixt> I guess if the tx processors have good connections to each other this could be done
775 2010-11-21 05:15:36 <Diablo-D3> its how the system almost works now
776 2010-11-21 05:15:40 <Diablo-D3> with real money, I mean
777 2010-11-21 05:15:45 <Diablo-D3> except its not every ten minutes
778 2010-11-21 05:15:50 <Diablo-D3> its, say, once a month
779 2010-11-21 05:15:50 <OneFixt> it's every few days
780 2010-11-21 05:16:02 <Diablo-D3> yeah, or every few days just for the electronic accounting
781 2010-11-21 05:16:06 <OneFixt> yeah
782 2010-11-21 05:16:12 <OneFixt> ok
783 2010-11-21 05:16:15 <OneFixt> long live bitcoin
784 2010-11-21 05:16:23 <Diablo-D3> we just make the system far more efficient
785 2010-11-21 05:16:25 <Diablo-D3> and, also
786 2010-11-21 05:16:32 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt stop btc from being doubly useful
787 2010-11-21 05:16:52 <Diablo-D3> a transaction processor can have a private btc chain with the vendor
788 2010-11-21 05:16:54 <Diablo-D3> or a bank
789 2010-11-21 05:17:01 <Diablo-D3> that holds the ACTUAL transactions
790 2010-11-21 05:17:09 <Diablo-D3> as an account log
791 2010-11-21 05:17:37 <Diablo-D3> the private chain has no value, but cannot be falsified
792 2010-11-21 05:18:02 <OneFixt> as long as we don't eat all the computing power in the world making all these chains
793 2010-11-21 05:18:11 <Diablo-D3> they'd only have to construct a few dozen
794 2010-11-21 05:18:14 <Diablo-D3> and just reuse them
795 2010-11-21 05:18:27 <Diablo-D3> only the bank or the transaction processor would know the names of all the private coins
796 2010-11-21 05:19:22 <Diablo-D3> actually, it wouldnt even need coins
797 2010-11-21 05:19:38 <Diablo-D3> it'd just be a massive proof of work chain
798 2010-11-21 05:19:42 <Diablo-D3> that works the same way
799 2010-11-21 05:30:09 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: actually
800 2010-11-21 05:30:15 <Diablo-D3> you could literally retrofit it
801 2010-11-21 05:30:28 <Diablo-D3> generate coins on the bank/processor side
802 2010-11-21 05:30:31 <Diablo-D3> that represent token values
803 2010-11-21 05:31:00 <Diablo-D3> you start a chain of a few hundred blank transactions
804 2010-11-21 05:31:09 <Diablo-D3> both legally agree thats start of a new chain
805 2010-11-21 05:31:18 <Diablo-D3> then they start doing transactions back and forth
806 2010-11-21 05:31:23 <Diablo-D3> the token values have to match
807 2010-11-21 05:31:48 <Diablo-D3> if they dont, the bank/processor is most likely lying
808 2010-11-21 05:32:04 <Diablo-D3> unless the vendor can somehow process faster than the bank/processor
809 2010-11-21 05:32:36 <OneFixt> I like the idea of one global chain because it's much more secure than any separate chain
810 2010-11-21 05:32:49 <Diablo-D3> for the actual value yes
811 2010-11-21 05:32:56 <Diablo-D3> but chains of work arent limited to just that
812 2010-11-21 05:45:53 <OneFixt> ;btc,estimate
813 2010-11-21 05:45:58 <OneFixt> ;bc,estimate
814 2010-11-21 05:46:33 <OneFixt> ;;bc,estimate
815 2010-11-21 05:46:34 <gribble> 6702.72628591
816 2010-11-21 05:46:40 <OneFixt> ;;bc,calc 1500
817 2010-11-21 05:46:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 32 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 41 minutes, and 10 seconds
818 2010-11-21 05:46:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 5 hours, 27 minutes, and 42 seconds
819 2010-11-21 05:46:45 <OneFixt> ;;bc,calc 1500000
820 2010-11-21 06:04:35 <jrabbit> fuuu
821 2010-11-21 06:05:08 <jrabbit> only at 2 processes: 1154
822 2010-11-21 06:12:23 <xelister> Diablo-D3: m0m's account correctly. it is simple formula. I also added code to as well show avg. since session start, same result
823 2010-11-21 06:16:23 <xelister> Diablo-D3: and since m0m's miner runs with no problems, it must be bug in your code.
824 2010-11-21 06:17:13 <xelister> on same box, with sdk 2.1, both miners have almost 0 cpu use, except yours is slower 110 instead ~145 (not o.c. radeon5770)
825 2010-11-21 06:17:26 <xelister> 2010-11-21 08:17:14: 139.07 Mhash now 144.04 Mhash sess | mined 0 BTC
826 2010-11-21 06:31:37 <Diablo-D3> xelister: okay so
827 2010-11-21 06:31:39 <Diablo-D3> on 2.2
828 2010-11-21 06:31:42 <Diablo-D3> you get the correct rate
829 2010-11-21 06:31:45 <Diablo-D3> but on 2.1 you dont?
830 2010-11-21 06:35:23 <Diablo-D3> and on 2.1 m0's gets the right one?
831 2010-11-21 06:36:14 <Diablo-D3> xelister: btw, if you're counting from the start, make sure yours works like mine
832 2010-11-21 06:36:21 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I ignore the first 5 seconds
833 2010-11-21 07:34:41 <LobsterMan> xelister i use windows
834 2010-11-21 07:34:49 <LobsterMan> i have not built anything myself
835 2010-11-21 07:34:55 <LobsterMan> i just download binaries and it works :]
836 2010-11-21 07:54:49 <OneFixt> What are the chances that a card like this won't crap out during mining? http://www.meetgadget.com/gadget/29155/AXLE+5970+2GB/specs
837 2010-11-21 07:55:18 <Diablo-D3> low
838 2010-11-21 07:55:35 <Diablo-D3> isnt axle one of those cheap shit brands?
839 2010-11-21 07:55:41 <OneFixt> most likely
840 2010-11-21 07:56:10 <Diablo-D3> good == asus, gigabyte, his, msi, sapphire
841 2010-11-21 07:56:14 <Diablo-D3> bad == everybody else
842 2010-11-21 07:56:40 <OneFixt> I'm just trying to figure out how bad is bad
843 2010-11-21 07:56:47 <LobsterMan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1pd69r1Il8#t=1m3s
844 2010-11-21 07:57:40 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: bad mix is bad
845 2010-11-21 07:57:44 <LobsterMan> ;]
846 2010-11-21 07:58:45 <OneFixt> actually, there's some nice harmonic mixing going on in that mix
847 2010-11-21 07:58:57 <Diablo-D3> cheapest 5870 that isnt shit is $299.99, $269.99 after rebate
848 2010-11-21 07:59:52 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: I can beat this
849 2010-11-21 08:00:06 <LobsterMan> i like girl talk
850 2010-11-21 08:00:13 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-8xLVTkb_o
851 2010-11-21 08:00:58 <LobsterMan> ever hear of the super mash bros?
852 2010-11-21 08:01:03 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: no
853 2010-11-21 08:01:18 <Diablo-D3> so, @269.99 (after rebate) 5870... vs...
854 2010-11-21 08:01:37 <Diablo-D3> $274.99 6870, no rebate.
855 2010-11-21 08:01:53 <LobsterMan> Diablo-D3:
856 2010-11-21 08:02:16 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: yes but
857 2010-11-21 08:03:03 <Diablo-D3> this mix has entirely too much awesome in it
858 2010-11-21 08:03:30 <LobsterMan> it uses too much of the original track
859 2010-11-21 08:03:32 <LobsterMan> :P
860 2010-11-21 08:03:49 <Diablo-D3> thats the problem
861 2010-11-21 08:04:01 <Diablo-D3> it goes from song to song to song to song
862 2010-11-21 08:04:05 <Diablo-D3> without actually going anywhere
863 2010-11-21 08:05:27 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: see, too many remixers use rap lyrics
864 2010-11-21 08:05:28 <Diablo-D3> its dumb
865 2010-11-21 08:05:46 <Diablo-D3> no one wants to listen to some black guy growling into a mic
866 2010-11-21 08:06:17 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NenF0Wwn_M8
867 2010-11-21 08:06:20 <Diablo-D3> mind blown
868 2010-11-21 08:07:39 <Diablo-D3> fucking van halen
869 2010-11-21 08:07:51 <LobsterMan> it's black lyrics over white melodies
870 2010-11-21 08:07:52 <LobsterMan> ;P
871 2010-11-21 08:08:20 <LobsterMan> i dunno, i think they synergize well
872 2010-11-21 08:09:00 <Diablo-D3> I dont
873 2010-11-21 08:09:09 <Diablo-D3> because it implies any of these morons have musical skill
874 2010-11-21 08:09:10 <Diablo-D3> they dont
875 2010-11-21 08:09:22 <LobsterMan> means you need to consume moar cannabis
876 2010-11-21 08:09:28 <LobsterMan> ;]
877 2010-11-21 08:10:05 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX4TwACeY3Y&feature=related
878 2010-11-21 08:10:17 <Diablo-D3> heeeee I recognize that background track
879 2010-11-21 08:10:28 <LobsterMan> zombie nation something something
880 2010-11-21 08:10:52 <Diablo-D3> kernkraft 400
881 2010-11-21 08:10:55 <LobsterMan> yeah
882 2010-11-21 08:11:08 <Diablo-D3> something that is along the lines of un-techno
883 2010-11-21 08:11:23 <LobsterMan> come on, you tell me you don't like the mesh of kernkraft400 with some kanye sounding retard?
884 2010-11-21 08:11:27 <LobsterMan> i think it mixes very well
885 2010-11-21 08:12:01 <Diablo-D3> yeah but
886 2010-11-21 08:12:03 <Diablo-D3> I cant stand ANY of it
887 2010-11-21 08:12:17 <LobsterMan> and tbh, if you wanna know about bruce willis:
888 2010-11-21 08:13:08 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCBY_UT_Es0
889 2010-11-21 08:14:14 <Diablo-D3> absurd mix is absurd
890 2010-11-21 08:15:31 <LobsterMan> not bad, but it's different from the other stuff
891 2010-11-21 08:15:40 <LobsterMan> this is one artist, and just transitioning between his songs
892 2010-11-21 08:16:02 <Diablo-D3> yeah but its done really fucking good
893 2010-11-21 08:16:16 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125347
894 2010-11-21 08:16:18 <Diablo-D3> holy christ
895 2010-11-21 08:16:21 <Diablo-D3> $249.99
896 2010-11-21 08:17:30 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102883
897 2010-11-21 08:17:30 <LobsterMan> wild card:
898 2010-11-21 08:17:34 <Diablo-D3> $299.99
899 2010-11-21 08:17:38 <Diablo-D3> rrrrrrrrape
900 2010-11-21 08:17:45 <LobsterMan> nice deal....no wonder the first one is sold out
901 2010-11-21 08:17:56 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: btw, check around 4:00
902 2010-11-21 08:18:03 <Diablo-D3> thriller <3
903 2010-11-21 08:18:21 <Diablo-D3> and macually calkin before he turned gay
904 2010-11-21 08:18:34 <LobsterMan> is he gay irl?
905 2010-11-21 08:18:46 <LobsterMan> his brother kieran culkin played a gay dude in scott pilgrim vs the world
906 2010-11-21 08:18:53 <Diablo-D3> who knows
907 2010-11-21 08:18:56 <Diablo-D3> I just cant stand him
908 2010-11-21 08:19:14 <Diablo-D3> watch at 6:00 too
909 2010-11-21 08:19:20 <Diablo-D3> epic transition is epic
910 2010-11-21 08:19:27 <LobsterMan> im watching :P
911 2010-11-21 08:19:32 <LobsterMan> i liked michael j.
912 2010-11-21 08:19:38 <LobsterMan> i don't think he was a kid toucher :\n53193
913 2010-11-21 08:19:43 <LobsterMan> i think he was just disturbed
914 2010-11-21 08:19:47 <Diablo-D3> and there was never really any proof of it
915 2010-11-21 08:19:48 <Diablo-D3> disturbed? yes
916 2010-11-21 08:19:54 <Diablo-D3> he was the eternal child
917 2010-11-21 08:20:40 <LobsterMan> tbh if he wanted to do "bad" things to little boys......he had enough money he could have just moved to thailand or some shit where that kind of stuff flies
918 2010-11-21 08:20:50 <LobsterMan> imho at least
919 2010-11-21 08:20:55 <Diablo-D3> yeah
920 2010-11-21 08:21:00 <LobsterMan> also, don't stop till you get enough
921 2010-11-21 08:21:01 <LobsterMan> ;)
922 2010-11-21 08:23:41 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUvg7Empjfg
923 2010-11-21 08:23:42 <Diablo-D3> yeargh!
924 2010-11-21 08:23:44 <Diablo-D3> not that!
925 2010-11-21 08:23:54 <LobsterMan> you mean
926 2010-11-21 08:23:55 <LobsterMan> fuck yes!
927 2010-11-21 08:24:10 <LobsterMan> he's dead irl though :\n53209
928 2010-11-21 08:25:55 <LobsterMan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franky_Gee
929 2010-11-21 08:26:03 <Diablo-D3> dude
930 2010-11-21 08:26:07 <Diablo-D3> everybody is dead
931 2010-11-21 08:26:11 <LobsterMan> not me
932 2010-11-21 08:26:13 <LobsterMan> or you
933 2010-11-21 08:26:14 <LobsterMan> ;P
934 2010-11-21 08:29:25 <LobsterMan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdeMjdsCcQ
935 2010-11-21 08:31:18 <Diablo-D3> no more!
936 2010-11-21 08:31:26 <LobsterMan> ql?
937 2010-11-21 08:31:56 <Diablo-D3> quakelive
938 2010-11-21 08:32:08 <OneFixt> LobsterMan: you have good taste ;)
939 2010-11-21 08:32:17 <LobsterMan> thanks ;]
940 2010-11-21 08:32:26 <LobsterMan> glad someone appreciates my links
941 2010-11-21 08:33:57 <OneFixt> =) I downloaded the girl talk album
942 2010-11-21 08:34:06 <LobsterMan> i really like his new album
943 2010-11-21 08:36:00 <LobsterMan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdWJ2pfixoM
944 2010-11-21 08:36:12 <LobsterMan> i've always had a sweet spot for german techno
945 2010-11-21 08:39:28 <LobsterMan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Hct-gyIXs
946 2010-11-21 08:40:05 <OneFixt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX344wsHPs0
947 2010-11-21 08:41:24 <OneFixt> nice, nice
948 2010-11-21 08:43:29 <OneFixt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF0I0fHBMKA
949 2010-11-21 08:48:23 <LobsterMan> OneFixt that first one is very nice, and the 2nd one is overdone :P
950 2010-11-21 08:48:37 <LobsterMan> not a bad tune but just done to death hehe
951 2010-11-21 08:48:45 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/random/some-random-trance-music
952 2010-11-21 08:49:10 <nathan7> lobsters.
953 2010-11-21 08:51:26 <LobsterMan> indeeeed
954 2010-11-21 09:03:44 <nathan7> LobsterMan: indeedeedeeeeeeeeed
955 2010-11-21 09:03:46 <nathan7> weed
956 2010-11-21 09:03:49 <LobsterMan> ;]
957 2010-11-21 09:04:50 <nathan7> weed rhymes with indeed
958 2010-11-21 09:06:25 <LobsterMan> rhymes wth speed and bleed too
959 2010-11-21 09:06:26 <LobsterMan> :P
960 2010-11-21 09:17:53 <OneFixt> does overclocking a gpu void the waranty?
961 2010-11-21 09:18:08 <OneFixt> warranty*
962 2010-11-21 09:18:37 <Diablo-D3> yes
963 2010-11-21 09:19:36 <OneFixt> how would the manufacturer be able to tell that it's been overclocked?
964 2010-11-21 09:20:07 <Diablo-D3> they just can.
965 2010-11-21 09:21:02 <LobsterMan> orly?
966 2010-11-21 09:21:17 <OneFixt> hmm, depends on the company, some seem to let you overclock
967 2010-11-21 10:06:39 <wumpus> they could keep a log of settings changes and errors in flash memory, for example harddisks do this...
968 2010-11-21 12:06:04 <nathan7> Yeah.
969 2010-11-21 12:06:36 <nathan7> Or even worse, a PROM
970 2010-11-21 12:14:51 <wumpus> yeah, but they generally use a pretty small memory combined with circular logs, to save on costs. It's meant for diagnostics, not forensics :)
971 2010-11-21 14:21:13 <Diablo-D3> yes so clearly
972 2010-11-21 14:21:22 <Diablo-D3> keep booting the device you cant boot because you BROKE IT
973 2010-11-21 14:30:14 <Diablo-D3> 56552727 khash/sec
974 2010-11-21 14:30:18 <Diablo-D3> need to stop breaking things
975 2010-11-21 15:05:52 <xelister> Diablo-D3: yes
976 2010-11-21 15:07:11 <xelister> sdk2.2: diablo' uses 200% cpu and has full-speed, m0m's 100% cpu and full speed; sdk2.1: bot uses non cpu, but diablos drop to -40% performance! while m0m's has same optimal rate 150-160
977 2010-11-21 15:07:24 <xelister> *both