1 2010-11-28 00:10:22 <manveru> i've tried the faucet yesterday, and left the generator running all night, but my balance is still 0.000000?
2 2010-11-28 00:12:12 <theymos> It takes most people months to generate any coins. The faucet might have detected something suspicious about you, or you might not have all ~94000 blocks (you need all of them to receive transactions).
3 2010-11-28 00:12:30 <theymos> What address did you use?
4 2010-11-28 00:12:55 <manveru> 1LKjqYrnRSzMwaPJWTRSDpk2577UszbwBb
5 2010-11-28 00:13:34 <theymos> You just don't have all blocks. The coins have already been sent to you: http://blockexplorer.com/a/92siAqXv1S
6 2010-11-28 00:14:05 <manveru> and months... i'm doing this on my notebook, can't really have my CPU eating away my battery during the day
7 2010-11-28 00:14:18 <manveru> thanks
8 2010-11-28 00:14:35 <theymos> It's not usually profitable electricity-wise if you're not using a GPU.
9 2010-11-28 00:15:14 <manveru> also, when i woke up, there were thousands of entries in the debug.log that look like: trying connection lastseen=-135.6hrs lasttry=-358582.4hrs
10 2010-11-28 00:15:30 <theymos> How many connections do you have?
11 2010-11-28 00:15:49 <manveru> 2 right now
12 2010-11-28 00:15:53 <MT`AwAy> manveru: tell us the stuff written on the low part of your window (connections+blocks)
13 2010-11-28 00:15:55 <manveru> it had around 80 yesterday
14 2010-11-28 00:16:15 <manveru> MT`AwAy: i only run bitcoind
15 2010-11-28 00:16:38 <theymos> How many blocks do you have?
16 2010-11-28 00:16:48 <manveru> blockcount and blocknumber are 29124
17 2010-11-28 00:17:01 <theymos> How fast is that increasing?
18 2010-11-28 00:17:51 <manveru> around 1 every 4 seconds
19 2010-11-28 00:17:56 <jgarzik> ouch
20 2010-11-28 00:18:04 <MT`AwAy> manveru: try restarting it, then, it /might/ help you to get blocks from a faster peer
21 2010-11-28 00:18:04 <theymos> Are you on Windows?
22 2010-11-28 00:18:13 <manveru> linux
23 2010-11-28 00:18:53 <theymos> Try running Bitcoin with the -addnode=99.27.237.13 switch. That connects directly to me.
24 2010-11-28 00:21:09 <jgarzik> manveru: 32-bit or 64-bit linux?
25 2010-11-28 00:21:35 <manveru> 64
26 2010-11-28 00:21:53 <theymos> Those "trying connection" messages with huge numbers means that you've failed to connect to the IRC bootstrap channel, and you're now trying the built-in seednodes. Most of the seednodes are down, so it takes a long time to find a good one. I wouldn't think it should take more than a few hours, though.
27 2010-11-28 00:22:27 <manveru> now 'blkindex.dat flush' takes a few minutes :|
28 2010-11-28 00:22:29 <MT`AwAy> talking about nodes, 174.120.185.74 should be a nice ip too to connect to (one of my servers)
29 2010-11-28 00:22:48 <manveru> oh well
30 2010-11-28 00:25:22 <jgarzik> manveru: if you give me a few minutes to upload, you may download ~94000 blocks directly from me as a compressed tarball
31 2010-11-28 00:28:39 <xelister> Diablo-D3: any idea how to make your miner work nice in backgrund?
32 2010-11-28 00:28:56 <manveru> still hangs on flush
33 2010-11-28 00:30:17 <jgarzik> manveru: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/blocks-linux-64bit.tar.bz2 if you wish to jump straight to block ~94,200
34 2010-11-28 00:30:33 <jgarzik> manveru: shut down bitcoin, replace your blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat with those files, then restart.
35 2010-11-28 00:30:44 <jgarzik> manveru: ~ 68 MB, bzip2-compressed
36 2010-11-28 00:31:01 <theymos> manveru: Are you on some network file system?
37 2010-11-28 00:31:31 <manveru> no, just a normal harddisk
38 2010-11-28 00:31:59 <manveru> it's only 5200 rpm though
39 2010-11-28 00:32:06 <jgarzik> plenty fast enough
40 2010-11-28 00:32:49 <manveru> anyway, i don't think i can use bitcoin anyway, if it takes months to generate a coin
41 2010-11-28 00:33:23 <jgarzik> manveru: you can use it, you just probably won't get free money
42 2010-11-28 00:34:08 <jgarzik> manveru: the normal way for most to get bitcoins is to obtain them from an exchanger
43 2010-11-28 00:34:09 <manveru> well, my money is in here in japan, so i can't just convert any either
44 2010-11-28 00:34:55 <jgarzik> manveru: money from Japan spends just like any other :)
45 2010-11-28 00:35:22 <jgarzik> manveru: looking for yen-to-bitcoin exchanger, I guess?
46 2010-11-28 00:35:52 <manveru> yeah
47 2010-11-28 00:36:33 <theymos> Isn't MT`AwAy in Japan?
48 2010-11-28 00:36:56 <manveru> ok, i've inserted the .dat files, let's see how that goes
49 2010-11-28 00:39:18 <MT`AwAy> theymos: I'm in Japan, but I also got servers in USA/Europe
50 2010-11-28 00:39:43 <MT`AwAy> I do JPY=>Bitcoin exchanges btw
51 2010-11-28 00:40:13 <MT`AwAy> kiba: you forgot your uppercase this morning
52 2010-11-28 00:40:31 <kiba> upper case?
53 2010-11-28 00:40:46 <manveru> oi kiba
54 2010-11-28 00:40:58 <jgarzik> manveru: keep an eye on debug.log for activity. normal startup, once all blocks are downloaded, includes a significant pause during the "loading block index" step.
55 2010-11-28 00:41:25 <MT`AwAy> kiba: usually your are Kiba and not kiba, this makes your color different on my irc client :p
56 2010-11-28 00:41:48 <MT`AwAy> manveru: anyway if you want bitcoins just tell me
57 2010-11-28 00:42:02 <manveru> :)
58 2010-11-28 00:42:28 <manveru> MT`AwAy: i've been trying to find ways to get around paypal for my employer
59 2010-11-28 00:42:56 <Kiba> bitcoin have no presence in the Asian market
60 2010-11-28 00:43:06 <MT`AwAy> I'm selling services with my japanese company in bitcoins, and to sell them I've joined btcex
61 2010-11-28 00:43:29 <manveru> right now they pay me by credit-card to paypal, and i forward that to my bank account... but the fees are crazy
62 2010-11-28 00:43:43 <MT`AwAy> manveru: 3.9%+0.25
63 2010-11-28 00:43:48 <MT`AwAy> I know, I have the same problem :D
64 2010-11-28 00:44:16 <manveru> that plus USD<=>JPY rate
65 2010-11-28 00:44:18 <MT`AwAy> moneybookers only takes 2.9%+0.29 in worst case, but getting to be a merchant requires you to translate company documents first
66 2010-11-28 00:44:27 <MT`AwAy> manveru: 2.5% conversion fee, thank you paypal
67 2010-11-28 00:45:34 <manveru> i've tried a normal account on moneybookers to try it, but it seems like they didn't take american express
68 2010-11-28 00:46:11 <manveru> god knows why, they list it everywhere as available, but wasn't an option when we tried it
69 2010-11-28 00:46:37 <MT`AwAy> no
70 2010-11-28 00:46:45 <MT`AwAy> they list nothing as available if you're not merchant
71 2010-11-28 00:46:56 <manveru> hm
72 2010-11-28 00:47:11 <MT`AwAy> becoming merchant is free
73 2010-11-28 00:47:19 <MT`AwAy> but getting notarized translations is not
74 2010-11-28 00:47:31 <manveru> but you need a company to do that
75 2010-11-28 00:47:33 <MT`AwAy> (and since I'm only me in my company, and I'm not originally Japanese, I have no idea how to get that)
76 2010-11-28 00:49:06 <manveru> well, i'm under contract for an US company, but me and my family live in japan...
77 2010-11-28 00:50:36 <MT`AwAy> oh
78 2010-11-28 00:50:55 <MT`AwAy> if they are in US, bitcoins shouldn't be a problem for them (or you are trying to sell stuff yourself in bitcoins?)
79 2010-11-28 00:51:55 <manveru> yeah, that's what i hope
80 2010-11-28 00:52:45 <manveru> but i still need a way to buy my food... :)
81 2010-11-28 00:53:45 <Kiba> manveru: so you're Japanese?
82 2010-11-28 00:55:38 <manveru> i'm austrian
83 2010-11-28 00:55:47 <Kiba> as an actual Austrian?
84 2010-11-28 00:55:56 <manveru> yes
85 2010-11-28 00:56:01 <Kiba> oh cool
86 2010-11-28 00:56:08 <manveru> and you're the guy who wrote the tamagochi-thing in ruby, no?
87 2010-11-28 00:56:14 <Kiba> wha?
88 2010-11-28 00:56:18 <Kiba> yeah, it was a failure.
89 2010-11-28 00:56:23 <Kiba> ;)
90 2010-11-28 00:56:26 <manveru> hehe
91 2010-11-28 00:56:56 <manveru> you're chinese?
92 2010-11-28 00:57:01 <Kiba> No
93 2010-11-28 00:57:08 <Kiba> I am Vietnamese
94 2010-11-28 00:57:17 <manveru> oh, sorry
95 2010-11-28 00:57:45 <Kiba> An Asian woman the other day thought I was Korean
96 2010-11-28 00:58:11 <Kiba> an Asian classmate alway get my ethnicity wrong :)
97 2010-11-28 00:58:53 <manveru> well, it's hard for me to classify in person, but over the internet it's a whole lot harder :)
98 2010-11-28 01:00:01 <manveru> so what're you up to these days?
99 2010-11-28 01:00:15 <Kiba> working on bitcoin related stuff
100 2010-11-28 01:00:23 <Kiba> trying to get my web app running
101 2010-11-28 01:00:33 <Kiba> making money by drawing
102 2010-11-28 01:00:47 <MT`AwAy> [10:52:47] <manveru> but i still need a way to buy my food... :) <- for now I can sell you bitcoins :p
103 2010-11-28 01:00:48 <Kiba> I think I earned .25 bitcents
104 2010-11-28 01:01:41 <manveru> jgarzik: connectioncount is up to 7 now
105 2010-11-28 01:02:13 <MT`AwAy> manveru: did you open the bitcoin incoming port?
106 2010-11-28 01:02:25 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#How_do_I_open_port_8333
107 2010-11-28 01:02:32 <manveru> oh
108 2010-11-28 01:02:43 <MT`AwAy> yeah
109 2010-11-28 01:02:50 <MT`AwAy> might help a bit too
110 2010-11-28 01:04:04 <manveru> Kiba: found your stuff on twitter, but you don't have previews or anything?
111 2010-11-28 01:05:25 <MT`AwAy> I was thinking the same thing
112 2010-11-28 01:05:26 <MT`AwAy> :p
113 2010-11-28 01:06:13 <manveru> not that i'd have 0.02 btc anyway :)
114 2010-11-28 01:06:46 <MT`AwAy> manveru: what was your bitcoin address?
115 2010-11-28 01:07:08 <manveru> 1LKjqYrnRSzMwaPJWTRSDpk2577UszbwBb
116 2010-11-28 01:07:09 <MT`AwAy> (oh, you don't have the blocks yet, so it won't matter)
117 2010-11-28 01:07:39 <manveru> jgarzik: sent me the blocks, but it didn't change my balance
118 2010-11-28 01:08:06 <MT`AwAy> manveru: in your getinfo you're at block 94236 ?
119 2010-11-28 01:08:39 <manveru> yeah
120 2010-11-28 01:08:47 <MT`AwAy> mh
121 2010-11-28 01:09:02 <manveru> haven't done the port thing yet
122 2010-11-28 01:09:17 <MT`AwAy> trx:3f7b838444943b797101a2663579d572301506ddd555525ed013b425ba574630
123 2010-11-28 01:10:29 <theymos> You won't notice transactions to yourself when you use someone else's block databases. Running Bitcoin with -checkblocks might cause a recheck, but I'm not sure.
124 2010-11-28 01:11:15 <theymos> You might also use these databases, which are older: http://knightmb.dyndns.org/files/bitcoin/blocks/
125 2010-11-28 01:11:42 <MT`AwAy> theymos: with my bitcoin client, you do (block database is in a separate file than the "this block has been analyzed" info)
126 2010-11-28 01:12:13 <MT`AwAy> manveru: I sent you an extra 0.05 btc anyway, which should be in a few blocks
127 2010-11-28 01:13:15 <MT`AwAy> mh
128 2010-11-28 01:13:21 <MT`AwAy> looks like I generated 50 btc again
129 2010-11-28 01:13:42 <theymos> MT`AwAy: I think manveru replaced blkindex.dat, too. (Would it even work to replace only blk*.dat files?)
130 2010-11-28 01:15:25 <MT`AwAy> theymos: I don't know for the current bitcoin client, and I don't have the time/will to read the whole main.cpp file
131 2010-11-28 01:16:17 <MT`AwAy> I'm coding my own bitcoin client, and when I'm not sure about something I grep my way around in the original bitcoin client
132 2010-11-28 01:20:15 <manveru> MT`AwAy: thanks
133 2010-11-28 01:20:28 <MT`AwAy> :p
134 2010-11-28 01:20:44 <manveru> just trying to dig out my router credentials... :)
135 2010-11-28 01:21:54 <MT`AwAy> manveru: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9JPvbn4JEw <- if you want some music to go with that (ok, it's crap, I recorded that with my iphone, didn't plan to record anything that day anyway)
136 2010-11-28 01:22:47 <jgarzik> knightmb sure did disappear from the scene
137 2010-11-28 01:25:29 <manveru> lol
138 2010-11-28 01:26:32 <manveru> found it :D
139 2010-11-28 01:27:53 <Kiba> I like...the smeeeeeeeeel of bitcoins
140 2010-11-28 01:35:29 <manveru> MT`AwAy: not that bad for a phone
141 2010-11-28 01:36:00 <MT`AwAy> manveru: iphone 4, it has HD camera, but the microphone had a hard time recording the singer's voice correctly
142 2010-11-28 01:36:11 <MT`AwAy> (oh, and I was holding the phone the whole time)
143 2010-11-28 01:40:49 <Kiba> landline phones are disappearing
144 2010-11-28 01:41:11 <Kiba> and phones is beginning to denoate much more than just a phone......
145 2010-11-28 01:41:18 <MT`AwAy> instead we have IP phones
146 2010-11-28 01:41:22 <MT`AwAy> :p
147 2010-11-28 01:41:52 <MT`AwAy> I'd be selling voip services in bitcoins if bitcoins wasn't so volatile
148 2010-11-28 01:42:21 <manveru> seems like this router doesn't even require a reboot
149 2010-11-28 01:43:16 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: you can just set a floating rate...
150 2010-11-28 01:44:20 <MT`AwAy> right now I update the rate automatically from mtgox's ticker, but it's not good anyway since there's a delay between "I receive funds" and "I sell bitcoins"
151 2010-11-28 01:44:33 <MT`AwAy> anyway there's too many fees
152 2010-11-28 01:44:50 <jgarzik> the best things in life are fee
153 2010-11-28 01:44:53 <jgarzik> or was that free?
154 2010-11-28 01:45:20 <MT`AwAy> converting bitcoins to JPY costs almost 10%
155 2010-11-28 01:46:43 <Kiba> ouch
156 2010-11-28 01:46:49 <Kiba> how does the conversion process work
157 2010-11-28 01:46:58 <Kiba> going from bitcoins to liberty dollars and then to yen?
158 2010-11-28 01:47:04 <MT`AwAy> through paypal
159 2010-11-28 01:47:15 <MT`AwAy> there's nobody converting LRUSD to JPY directly
160 2010-11-28 01:47:32 <MT`AwAy> paypal takes 3.9%+0.25fix to receive USD, then 2.5% fee to convert to JPY
161 2010-11-28 01:47:41 <MT`AwAy> mtgox to LRUSD takes 1% too
162 2010-11-28 01:47:55 <MT`AwAy> and not all guys take LRUSD to paypal at 1:1 rate
163 2010-11-28 01:47:56 <manveru> uh oh
164 2010-11-28 01:48:20 <Kiba> maybe you could open up a market by finding cheaper way to convert yen into bitcoins
165 2010-11-28 01:48:26 <MT`AwAy> that's why I joined btcex.com to sell bitcoins directly in jpy
166 2010-11-28 01:50:01 <MT`AwAy> (well, try to)
167 2010-11-28 02:00:18 <mtgox> MT`AwAy: how are you doing that on btcex ?
168 2010-11-28 02:03:25 <sneak> hi guys
169 2010-11-28 02:03:29 <sneak> mtgox: can i withdraw now
170 2010-11-28 02:03:36 <sneak> is everything all better
171 2010-11-28 02:20:28 <nameless> |Oh hey, I lost my hat
172 2010-11-28 02:55:11 <canadaduane> Hey all. New bitcoin user here... it seems like there are a lot of hoops to jump through to buy bitcoins with USD. (So far, my adventures lead me to believe the best path is USD->PayPal->ExchangeZone->LibertyReserve->MtGox->BitCoin).
173 2010-11-28 02:55:19 <canadaduane> Is there a better way?
174 2010-11-28 02:55:40 <sgornick> bitcoingateway.com accepts Visa / MC.. starting back up Monday am.
175 2010-11-28 02:56:06 <canadaduane> Ah, much better. I'll wait until Monday then. Thanks :)
176 2010-11-28 02:56:21 <MT`AwAy> canadaduane: you could also do something and have people pay bitcoins for it :p
177 2010-11-28 02:56:44 <canadaduane> BTW, this is the coolest currency innovation I've seen in a while... I'm excited to follow it for a while and see where we all take it
178 2010-11-28 02:56:54 <Kiba> hello
179 2010-11-28 02:57:00 <Kiba> I am your resident bitcoin artist
180 2010-11-28 02:57:05 <MT`AwAy> yep
181 2010-11-28 02:57:09 <canadaduane> MT`AwAy: Heh, indeed. When I have something to sell, I will do so ;)
182 2010-11-28 02:57:13 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: when will you provide previews of the stuff you sell?
183 2010-11-28 02:57:22 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: when hippich implement it
184 2010-11-28 02:57:45 <MT`AwAy> I don't want to spend bitcoins on something I don't even know the style nor anything
185 2010-11-28 02:58:53 <Kiba> hmm, Hippich must be making quite a bit of money or something
186 2010-11-28 02:58:54 <Kiba> or not
187 2010-11-28 03:02:26 <acous> what kind of artist Kiba ? plus are you hackerkiba on twitter? :)
188 2010-11-28 03:02:55 <Kiba> I am hackerkiba
189 2010-11-28 03:03:02 <Kiba> acous: I drew in the anime style
190 2010-11-28 03:03:24 <acous> ah cool
191 2010-11-28 03:03:48 <acous> you msged me there (@cows)
192 2010-11-28 03:07:58 <Kiba> I am learning my trade...
193 2010-11-28 03:08:17 <sgornick> canadaduane: There's also http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1625.0
194 2010-11-28 03:10:46 <MT`AwAy> I got LRUSD from my bitcoins a while ago, but I think I'll convert back to bitcoins, it's almost impossible to have JPY from LRUSD
195 2010-11-28 03:11:14 <canadaduane> sgornick: thx
196 2010-11-28 03:17:59 <canadaduane> Oh, one other thing... I'm curious about how often a new coin is "generated". I've been "generating" on my macbook pro (2.5 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo) for about 2 days now but I haven't seen my "Balance" increase. Is this to be expected?
197 2010-11-28 03:19:36 <chronomex> when you finish a block before anyone else, you'll win the 50 coins for that block
198 2010-11-28 03:20:13 <MT`AwAy> canadaduane: new coins are generated every ~10 minutes
199 2010-11-28 03:20:26 <MT`AwAy> however there's a lot of people doing it, and they have really strong hardware
200 2010-11-28 03:20:50 <MT`AwAy> so your chances of generating a new coin are low (the longer you do it, the more you may generate coins)
201 2010-11-28 03:21:12 <MT`AwAy> it's just like a lottery you play a few million times per second
202 2010-11-28 03:21:19 <MT`AwAy> while some people play it a few billion times per second
203 2010-11-28 03:21:21 <canadaduane> aww, I see
204 2010-11-28 03:21:25 <canadaduane> lol
205 2010-11-28 03:21:32 <chronomex> damn hoarders.
206 2010-11-28 03:21:41 <MT`AwAy> about*
207 2010-11-28 03:21:59 <MT`AwAy> anyway "gpu mining" is the way to go if you want to make a business based on bitcoins generation
208 2010-11-28 03:22:13 <MT`AwAy> buy gpus, spend lots in electricity bill and cover your fees with bitcoins
209 2010-11-28 03:22:19 <MT`AwAy> only... it'll come to be not interesting
210 2010-11-28 03:22:36 <canadaduane> Why do you say that?
211 2010-11-28 03:22:54 <MT`AwAy> more and more people are busy mining, causing difficulty to increase
212 2010-11-28 03:23:04 <canadaduane> Ah, I see. Arms race.
213 2010-11-28 03:23:08 <MT`AwAy> also, at some points you'll get 25 btc per block and no longer 50, so even less profits
214 2010-11-28 03:23:15 <canadaduane> Right
215 2010-11-28 03:23:21 <canadaduane> I heard about the thresholds
216 2010-11-28 03:23:28 <MT`AwAy> right now mining with cpu power is considered not interesting (you spend more in electricity than you can get in btc)
217 2010-11-28 03:23:51 <canadaduane> Oh, I see. Interesting = wortwhile
218 2010-11-28 03:23:57 <MT`AwAy> yep
219 2010-11-28 03:24:09 <MT`AwAy> I still do it on my servers since I don't pay electricity there :D
220 2010-11-28 03:24:17 <MT`AwAy> (and got lots of cpu power I don't use)
221 2010-11-28 03:24:51 <MT`AwAy> so far I generated an average of one block per week
222 2010-11-28 03:25:01 <MT`AwAy> (only 3 weeks, so it's not reliable calculation yet)
223 2010-11-28 03:26:04 <chronomex> yeah. I'm currently working on a way of conning people into giving me bitcoins.
224 2010-11-28 03:26:08 <chronomex> er
225 2010-11-28 03:26:09 <chronomex> selling services.
226 2010-11-28 03:26:14 <chronomex> >.>
227 2010-11-28 03:26:15 <chronomex> <.<
228 2010-11-28 03:26:32 <canadaduane> So why do people generate blocks right now, if it's not worthwhile? Shouldn't we wait until their valuation increases?
229 2010-11-28 03:27:05 <chronomex> canadaduane: valuation decreases with time, not increases
230 2010-11-28 03:27:06 <Kiba> canadaduane: generating right now..help increase the security right now...
231 2010-11-28 03:27:49 <canadaduane> chronomex: not according to historical USD/bitcoin charts
232 2010-11-28 03:28:53 <chronomex> er, not what I meant. value of creating a block, in BTC, decreases with time.
233 2010-11-28 03:29:56 <MT`AwAy> canadaduane: generating from GPU is worthwhile
234 2010-11-28 03:30:05 <canadaduane> interesting
235 2010-11-28 03:30:16 <MT`AwAy> since only some people do it
236 2010-11-28 03:30:26 <MT`AwAy> (and a few do it seriously, with many gpu at the same time)
237 2010-11-28 03:31:17 <canadaduane> How should I read the "Difficulty" value on http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/? It is currently at 6866.9
238 2010-11-28 03:44:43 <MT`AwAy> canadaduane: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=difficulty
239 2010-11-28 03:45:07 <canadaduane> Ah, a wiki. Thanks.
240 2010-11-28 03:45:31 <MT`AwAy> you can use the current difficulty level with the calculator
241 2010-11-28 03:46:57 <canadaduane> Oh gosh. avg 250 days
242 2010-11-28 03:48:07 <MT`AwAy> canadaduane: that's what I mean by "not worthwhile"
243 2010-11-28 03:51:04 <acous> if china puts their top supercomputer on the task of generating blocks... can they take all the rest of the bitcoins?
244 2010-11-28 03:51:20 <MT`AwAy> acous: they'll take up to 2016 blocks
245 2010-11-28 03:51:25 <MT`AwAy> then difficulty will be adapted to the new speed
246 2010-11-28 03:51:47 <acous> ah, hmm
247 2010-11-28 03:52:29 <MT`AwAy> if their supercomputer is 1000 times faster than all the gpu miners that there will be on bitcoin at that time, they'll still have most of the bitcoins
248 2010-11-28 03:52:36 <MT`AwAy> however it'd be a big waste of resources
249 2010-11-28 03:53:23 <MT`AwAy> someone with really a lot of cpu power could also generate 2016 blocks quickly, then leave the network as is, generating the next 2016 blocks will be more than challenging
250 2010-11-28 04:22:45 <skx> is there a text-only/console/gui-less client?
251 2010-11-28 04:22:55 <theymos> Yes. bitcoind
252 2010-11-28 04:26:12 <skx> thanks
253 2010-11-28 04:29:36 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, unless you have immediate need to translate the usd into jpy, you could just save the 10% and keep it in goxusd/btc
254 2010-11-28 04:29:53 <nanotube> or even lrusd, if you don't trust mtgox with your balance. :)
255 2010-11-28 04:32:47 <MT`AwAy> well, for now I'm just keeping that in btc on my servers
256 2010-11-28 04:33:38 <MT`AwAy> I tried to convert a small amount, but now I'm stuck with LRUSD
257 2010-11-28 04:33:53 <nanotube> well, you can deposit the lrusd back into mtgox ):
258 2010-11-28 04:33:56 <nanotube> :) that is
259 2010-11-28 04:35:01 <nanotube> but anyway, if your goal is to 'lock in' your profit from selling your services into a more widely-accepted currency, usd is probably fine. usd/jpy is certainly less volatile than btc/usd, based on the past few months.
260 2010-11-28 04:36:13 <nanotube> if you accumulate enough goxusd, you could then get mtgox to wire you the funds... even as little as $1000, would be cheaper than paying 10%.
261 2010-11-28 04:37:04 <MT`AwAy> mh
262 2010-11-28 04:37:14 <MT`AwAy> lately, usd/btc is less volatile than jpy/usd
263 2010-11-28 04:37:29 <nanotube> haha well, i guess it all depends on the time window you're looking at. :)
264 2010-11-28 04:37:35 <MT`AwAy> :p
265 2010-11-28 04:37:51 <MT`AwAy> anyway for now there's not many sales
266 2010-11-28 04:37:55 <MT`AwAy> in btc
267 2010-11-28 04:37:58 <MT`AwAy> so it's still fine
268 2010-11-28 04:38:30 <MT`AwAy> except that on the accounting side, btc are assimilated to losses
269 2010-11-28 04:38:51 <MT`AwAy> unless I can convert to local currency by the next exercice
270 2010-11-28 04:38:57 <MT`AwAy> (april 1st)
271 2010-11-28 04:39:24 <MT`AwAy> anyway we'll see by then
272 2010-11-28 04:46:46 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so your accounting deals with non-jpy currency as a loss eh? you could at least count the stuff at 'current market value'
273 2010-11-28 04:50:09 <skx> I'm running bitcoin, with gui, precompiled binary, generating coins, how can I see progress?
274 2010-11-28 04:50:19 <skx> balance will be increasing?
275 2010-11-28 04:50:33 <theymos> There is no progress. There is a very small chance per second of getting 50 BTC.
276 2010-11-28 04:52:00 <skx> ok, I don't understand the process then, back to documentation
277 2010-11-28 04:52:31 <theymos> Check out http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=target
278 2010-11-28 04:52:41 <Kiba> skx: bitcoin generation...is...mostly pointless
279 2010-11-28 04:53:01 <skx> shouldn't it be resource-intensive?
280 2010-11-28 04:53:36 <manveru> i just wish the resoucres would be used for something useful...
281 2010-11-28 04:53:47 <Kiba> manveru: it is doing something useful
282 2010-11-28 04:53:59 <theymos> It's not profitable electricity-wise to generate with a CPU (unless your electricity is free). It's only profitable if you're using a GPU.
283 2010-11-28 04:54:00 <Kiba> it help secure the network
284 2010-11-28 04:54:10 <skx> ok, there it is, it was just warming up
285 2010-11-28 04:54:22 <manveru> Kiba: secure the network?
286 2010-11-28 04:54:52 <Kiba> prevent double spending and stuff
287 2010-11-28 04:55:15 <manveru> what exactly is it calculating?
288 2010-11-28 04:55:44 <Kiba> skx: you're better off buying bitcoins...or earning bitcoins
289 2010-11-28 04:56:07 <Kiba> but then you need to download all the blocks first
290 2010-11-28 04:56:12 <skx> I'm just playing with it, I don't have any need or use for bitcoins
291 2010-11-28 04:57:09 <Kiba> nothign to play with if you have no bitcoins
292 2010-11-28 04:57:46 <Kiba> https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
293 2010-11-28 04:58:29 <skx> by playing I meant trying to run it on a headless freebsd machine
294 2010-11-28 04:58:55 <theymos> manveru: You're trying to find numbers that, when added to your block, hash to a value below the current target number. The hashing is useful in that it is required for the network to function -- it's not just for creating bitcoins.
295 2010-11-28 04:59:13 <manveru> well, they told me that it takes a couple of months to generate a bitcoin
296 2010-11-28 04:59:29 <theymos> On average you will generate at that rate. The network generates one per 10 minutes.
297 2010-11-28 04:59:47 <skx> months to get one, really?
298 2010-11-28 04:59:54 <theymos> To get 50, rather.
299 2010-11-28 05:00:18 <theymos> They come in bundles of 50.
300 2010-11-28 05:00:24 <skx> do you need to do anything special to use GPU?
301 2010-11-28 05:00:45 <manveru> i guess you need a GPU
302 2010-11-28 05:01:36 <manveru> theymos: thing is, that basically gives me 0 incentive to run the generator myself
303 2010-11-28 05:01:44 <skx> OK, I googled something interesting
304 2010-11-28 05:02:22 <Kiba> hmm..distributed mining
305 2010-11-28 05:02:51 <theymos> manveru: Then don't. The point is to make the network's CPU power as efficient as possible. You would make it less efficient, so you are disincentivized.
306 2010-11-28 05:04:28 <manveru> ok, i guess
307 2010-11-28 05:05:39 <theymos> In the future only dedicated corporations with their own power plants and custom hardware will generate profitably. Like gold mining companies.
308 2010-11-28 05:07:19 <manveru> heh
309 2010-11-28 05:07:31 <manveru> i guess i should get back to generating whuffies then
310 2010-11-28 05:09:03 <Kiba> have you decided anything regarding selling and buying in the bitcoin econom yet, manveru ?
311 2010-11-28 05:09:58 <manveru> Kiba: well, i have a whopping 0.05 to spend now, so i guess i could buy two of your pictures :)
312 2010-11-28 05:10:26 <manveru> but hard to choose which without preview
313 2010-11-28 05:10:38 <Kiba> yes, indeed. And you might not like it
314 2010-11-28 05:11:02 <manveru> i just don't know anything else in the price range
315 2010-11-28 05:11:20 <Kiba> manveru: well, mine are a series of revision for the same sketch
316 2010-11-28 05:11:25 <manveru> and it's not like there's a bitcoin bank where i can get interest
317 2010-11-28 05:11:35 <Kiba> so if you llike the more complete, than you could buy the newest one
318 2010-11-28 05:12:30 <Kiba> you will be contributing only 0.0025 in USD
319 2010-11-28 05:13:00 <Kiba> well a bit more than that..so if you buy two pictures, you contributed only around 0.01 cents
320 2010-11-28 05:13:32 <manveru> heh
321 2010-11-28 05:13:46 <Kiba> I am using the exchange value of .25
322 2010-11-28 05:13:55 <Kiba> so .28 will contribute a little bit higher
323 2010-11-28 05:14:54 <theymos> You could gamble with it.
324 2010-11-28 05:16:22 <MT`AwAy> [14:46:47] <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so your accounting deals with non-jpy currency as a loss eh? you could at least count the stuff at 'current market value' <- accounting deals with non-currency as loss when it has no known value
325 2010-11-28 05:17:16 <manveru> :)
326 2010-11-28 05:17:27 <manveru> MT`AwAy: btw, you're in tokyo?
327 2010-11-28 05:17:33 <MT`AwAy> manveru: yep, Suginami
328 2010-11-28 05:17:36 <MT`AwAy> and you?
329 2010-11-28 05:17:49 <manveru> jiyuugaoka, near naka meguro
330 2010-11-28 05:18:04 <MT`AwAy> oh, I often "pass" there since I often go to Yokohama ;)
331 2010-11-28 05:18:25 <manveru> right, toyoku line
332 2010-11-28 05:18:25 <MT`AwAy> and I have a friend living there
333 2010-11-28 05:18:32 <MT`AwAy> :p
334 2010-11-28 05:18:59 <MT`AwAy> I have to be at Yokohama today near 18:00, so I'll pass there again soon :D
335 2010-11-28 05:20:06 <manveru> hmh, i should get my son to toys'r'us soon... don't get to yokohama more than once a month or so
336 2010-11-28 05:20:35 <MT`AwAy> well, my girlfriend lives there, that gives me a good reason :p
337 2010-11-28 05:20:46 <manveru> since i mostly work at coffeeshops, i don't travel a lot usually
338 2010-11-28 05:21:11 <MT`AwAy> :p
339 2010-11-28 05:21:20 <MT`AwAy> I mostly work behind my computer, even worse for travel :D
340 2010-11-28 05:21:34 <manveru> :)
341 2010-11-28 05:21:43 <MT`AwAy> mh, I'm minus on mtgox :(
342 2010-11-28 05:21:56 <manveru> very hard with my 2-year old tornado :)
343 2010-11-28 05:21:59 <jgarzik> what is the default bitcoin data directory, on Windows?
344 2010-11-28 05:22:14 <jgarzik> aka the Windows equivalent of ~/.bitcoin
345 2010-11-28 05:22:16 <manveru> C:Documents and SettingsusernameApplication DataBitcoin
346 2010-11-28 05:22:21 <manveru> says the FAQ
347 2010-11-28 05:22:30 <jgarzik> tnx
348 2010-11-28 05:22:40 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: i'm pretty sure that's not the way multinational corporations do it. :)
349 2010-11-28 05:22:42 <manveru> for XP, that is
350 2010-11-28 05:22:54 <jgarzik> manveru: no problems with the block data you received, still, I hope?
351 2010-11-28 05:23:01 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: they pay taxes in local currencies
352 2010-11-28 05:23:02 <manveru> jgarzik: no, working fine
353 2010-11-28 05:23:06 <jgarzik> tnx
354 2010-11-28 05:23:17 <MT`AwAy> here I pay taxes in JPY, and declaring the amount of BTC hold by the company seems rather difficult
355 2010-11-28 05:23:47 <MT`AwAy> so I can exclude BTC from accounting, count it at losses, and then when I convert BTC back to something declarable, count it as sale and pay taxes at this point
356 2010-11-28 05:24:23 <MT`AwAy> wtf mtgox? "To reduce fraud we hold a certain of portion of PayPal payments in reserve for 30 days. You are currently only able to withdraw 203 BTC"
357 2010-11-28 05:24:34 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: aaah, well, for tax purposes, sure. :) but for your own internal accounting. :)
358 2010-11-28 05:24:51 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: I'm working as a company here
359 2010-11-28 05:24:53 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: mmm...did you deposit with paypal?
360 2010-11-28 05:24:58 <MT`AwAy> selling web hosting vps etc
361 2010-11-28 05:25:01 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: no, never
362 2010-11-28 05:25:14 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: then email mtgox and ask.
363 2010-11-28 05:25:20 <MT`AwAy> however my mtgox account is negative in USD
364 2010-11-28 05:25:35 <nanotube> heh indeed, better email, then
365 2010-11-28 05:25:40 <MT`AwAy> :p
366 2010-11-28 05:25:47 <skx> is there a man or sth for bicoind? or just this help listing commands?
367 2010-11-28 05:25:56 <MT`AwAy> skx: look at wiki
368 2010-11-28 05:26:04 <theymos> Unofficial: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=man_page
369 2010-11-28 05:26:28 <skx> I found that http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=headless_client
370 2010-11-28 05:26:45 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, good for you, then. if you can count bitcoins as a loss. :)
371 2010-11-28 05:27:19 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: well, it's "-0.002 USD"
372 2010-11-28 05:27:23 <MT`AwAy> not much :p
373 2010-11-28 05:28:00 <Kiba> ya know
374 2010-11-28 05:28:12 <Kiba> I just realize that probably only a thousand people really know what bitcoins is
375 2010-11-28 05:28:23 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: for now
376 2010-11-28 05:28:35 <Kiba> our economy is so minicule
377 2010-11-28 05:28:39 <MT`AwAy> anyway I don't know even a thousand of people really really /know/ what bitcoins is
378 2010-11-28 05:28:43 <Kiba> only worth about 1.3 million dollars
379 2010-11-28 05:28:58 <MT`AwAy> s/don't know/don't think/
380 2010-11-28 05:29:35 <nanotube> but the number is growing... which is good. :)
381 2010-11-28 05:29:41 <Kiba> wee! Somebody download
382 2010-11-28 05:29:51 <Kiba> 6 confirmations ago..lol
383 2010-11-28 05:29:55 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: could be some rounding errors... mtgox is kind of bad about that stuff... (the rounding errors, that is.)
384 2010-11-28 05:30:12 <Kiba> A steady stream of microtransaction coming to my address
385 2010-11-28 05:31:48 <manveru> Kiba: ubitious keeps some of that?
386 2010-11-28 05:32:02 <MT`AwAy> Standard btc=>jpy conversion: BTC LRUSD (0.65% mtgox) (1% for LR) (whatever for whoever converts to paypal USD) Paypal (3.9%+0.25 USD) JPY (2.5% USD=>JPY for paypal) => bank
387 2010-11-28 05:32:41 <Kiba> manveru: commision fee
388 2010-11-28 05:32:44 <Kiba> I get half
389 2010-11-28 05:32:48 <Kiba> ubitious get the rest
390 2010-11-28 05:32:48 <MT`AwAy> manveru: they get 50%
391 2010-11-28 05:33:00 <manveru> oh, wow
392 2010-11-28 05:33:34 <Kiba> I have to pay 0.02 anytime I want commision fee for an upload
393 2010-11-28 05:33:41 <Kiba> but that's easily recouped with 2 downloads
394 2010-11-28 05:34:31 <MT`AwAy> lol
395 2010-11-28 05:34:36 <MT`AwAy> they're making a lot of btc :D
396 2010-11-28 05:34:52 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: not really
397 2010-11-28 05:34:54 <MT`AwAy> well, maybe not that much since there seems to be not many files
398 2010-11-28 05:34:58 <Kiba> it takes 100 downloads to make 1 BTC
399 2010-11-28 05:37:00 <MT`AwAy> mh
400 2010-11-28 05:37:12 <MT`AwAy> even if you don't ask for commission, downloads are payinhg
401 2010-11-28 05:37:13 <MT`AwAy> paying*
402 2010-11-28 05:38:17 <skx> can I safely run bitcoind as a regular user in a multiuser setting?
403 2010-11-28 05:38:33 <theymos> If you set a good password.
404 2010-11-28 05:38:45 <MT`AwAy> skx: as safe as any software that exchanges data with lots of unknown peers
405 2010-11-28 05:38:58 <skx> no, no, I was asking about local users
406 2010-11-28 05:39:21 <MT`AwAy> oh, well, make sure ~/.bitcoin is 0700 (it is by default I think)
407 2010-11-28 05:39:26 <skx> k, thanks
408 2010-11-28 05:39:38 <MT`AwAy> the most important file is wallet.dat
409 2010-11-28 05:39:48 <MT`AwAy> someone stealing it has all your bitcoins and you can't do anything about it
410 2010-11-28 05:39:50 <theymos> Other users will be able to contact the RPC interface on localhost, so you need to set a good RPC password.
411 2010-11-28 05:39:58 <MT`AwAy> the second most important will be bitcoin.cfg which contains your RPC password
412 2010-11-28 05:53:02 <skx> bitcoind should be called mintd
413 2010-11-28 05:58:50 <nanotube> skx: haha, with the difficulty going up... it should more likely be called 'heatd' :)
414 2010-11-28 05:59:03 <chronomex> ha, heatd
415 2010-11-28 05:59:06 <chronomex> wouldn't that be gentoo?
416 2010-11-28 05:59:32 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: you could shave some of that off by selling btc directly for ppusd (on say, #bitcoin-otc :) ). ppusd 'personal' tx take no fees, other than a .5% for international tx.
417 2010-11-28 05:59:37 <nanotube> chronomex: haha
418 2010-11-28 05:59:52 <skx> well, I'm sitting 2kkm from my bitcoind, nanotube, so... not my problem ;)
419 2010-11-28 06:00:45 <nanotube> skx: are you paying for power at all?
420 2010-11-28 06:00:57 <skx> flat rate
421 2010-11-28 06:01:12 <chronomex> my bitcoind is running on someone else's power too. but then it's in their house so I guess it's electric heat.
422 2010-11-28 06:02:38 <nanotube> skx: heh in that case, have fun with the mining. :) what's your hash rate?
423 2010-11-28 06:03:08 <nanotube> electric heat by way of cpu... best kind of heat. :)
424 2010-11-28 06:03:12 <skx> nanotube, how do I check that? "hashespersec" : 3013149?
425 2010-11-28 06:03:14 <MT`AwAy> I'm sitting more than 10000km from my bitcoind processes
426 2010-11-28 06:03:25 <skx> MT`AwAy, OK, you win this round
427 2010-11-28 06:03:28 <MT`AwAy> :D
428 2010-11-28 06:03:35 <nanotube> skx: yep, that's it. 3000 khash/s
429 2010-11-28 06:03:38 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 3000
430 2010-11-28 06:03:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 16 weeks, 1 day, 18 hours, 50 minutes, and 35 seconds
431 2010-11-28 06:03:53 <nanotube> skx: so... a few months :)
432 2010-11-28 06:03:58 <skx> ugh
433 2010-11-28 06:04:13 <skx> still, I can spare two cores on this server
434 2010-11-28 06:04:21 <nanotube> yea... it's the last 35 seconds that's really killer. :D
435 2010-11-28 06:04:28 <skx> bitcoind is actually pretty light, no I/O, little to no memory
436 2010-11-28 06:04:35 <skx> nanotube, haha
437 2010-11-28 06:05:43 <MT`AwAy> I'm combining about 30Mhash/sec with all the idle power of various servers
438 2010-11-28 06:06:20 <chronomex> about how many hashes/sec is the net in total running at?
439 2010-11-28 06:06:22 <nanotube> oh, not bad at all. :) about 10% of a ati 5770 :D
440 2010-11-28 06:06:32 <nanotube> chronomex: iirc, about 50-60 ghps
441 2010-11-28 06:06:47 <chronomex> dang
442 2010-11-28 06:09:01 <MT`AwAy> at some point it'll go down
443 2010-11-28 06:09:19 <MT`AwAy> maybe
444 2010-11-28 06:09:20 <chronomex> why's that, decline of interest?
445 2010-11-28 06:09:38 <MT`AwAy> chronomex: yep, when one block will only be worth 25btc it'll help
446 2010-11-28 06:09:38 <skx> if it catches on, there will be only increase of interest
447 2010-11-28 06:09:45 <chronomex> ahyeah
448 2010-11-28 06:11:15 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, already probably 90% of generation comes from gpus... which are even at current prices doing quite not bad as far as USD/watt return.
449 2010-11-28 06:11:54 <nanotube> and also, probably prices will go up before/in anticipation of the block reward dropping... so no guarantees that mining capacity will drop.
450 2010-11-28 06:12:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 1 week, 4 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds
451 2010-11-28 06:12:03 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 30000
452 2010-11-28 06:12:23 <nanotube> mm, not bad, all things considered. :)
453 2010-11-28 06:13:43 <MT`AwAy> :D
454 2010-11-28 06:13:52 <MT`AwAy> that's me
455 2010-11-28 06:14:32 <MT`AwAy> I'm at 26123292 hps in "slow mode" on servers (+5000k at home)
456 2010-11-28 06:15:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5802 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 8 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 1 minute, and 5 seconds
457 2010-11-28 06:15:14 <skx> ;;bc,calc 5802
458 2010-11-28 06:16:46 <theymos> Does the RETARGET debug.log message (~line 937 in main.cpp) have an incorrect full hash for "After:"? It seems to me that it should be calculated as CBigNum().SetCompact(bnNew.GetCompact())...
459 2010-11-28 06:17:33 <MT`AwAy> generating a block is like rolling a 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 faced dice and hoping it'll roll to a value higher than 3926018509229572344313816286588613965571477415700629866143917555
460 2010-11-28 06:18:07 <skx> not lower than?
461 2010-11-28 06:18:32 <MT`AwAy> mh, yes, lower than, sorry
462 2010-11-28 06:18:33 <MT`AwAy> I'm tired
463 2010-11-28 06:18:34 <MT`AwAy> :D
464 2010-11-28 06:19:08 <theymos> Except that you're using the number from debug.log, and I think that's off by a significant amount (because of the issue I just mentioned).
465 2010-11-28 06:19:19 <MT`AwAy> I use the number from http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
466 2010-11-28 06:19:37 <theymos> That scrapes debug.log
467 2010-11-28 06:19:40 <MT`AwAy> :p
468 2010-11-28 06:23:36 <MT`AwAy> theymos: you could have a test blockexplorer running on testnet?
469 2010-11-28 06:23:55 <theymos> I do: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/
470 2010-11-28 06:24:41 <MT`AwAy> block generation is slow :p
471 2010-11-28 06:24:53 <MT`AwAy> mh, no /testnet/q/ ?
472 2010-11-28 06:25:01 <nanotube> theymos: based on the difficulty calculation, that number seems to be correct
473 2010-11-28 06:25:17 <nanotube> (2^224-1)/6866
474 2010-11-28 06:25:48 <nanotube> (plus or minus some rounding error, and 2^224-1 not being exactly right)
475 2010-11-28 06:26:14 <theymos> nanotube: It's between http://blockexplorer.com/qe/ds and http://blockexplorer.com/q/decimaltarget . Not a big difference, but a difference nonetheless.
476 2010-11-28 06:27:26 <nanotube> theymos: well, you said 'off by significant amount'... when you said significant, i assumed it's a difference of at least 1% ... :P
477 2010-11-28 06:27:51 <nanotube> of course in absolute terms, a gazillion quadrillion is significant. :)
478 2010-11-28 06:27:57 <nanotube> but relatively speaking...
479 2010-11-28 06:28:39 <theymos> Only the leading six decimal digits are preserved. That is significant for a lot of calculations.
480 2010-11-28 06:57:17 <Diablo-D3> hrm
481 2010-11-28 06:57:23 <Diablo-D3> it seems my change is stableish
482 2010-11-28 07:22:27 <skx> does this #bitcoin 591 mean that there are only 600 nodes (plus those few that may not be able to connect to irc) online now?
483 2010-11-28 07:23:01 <chronomex> skx: where are you seeing this?
484 2010-11-28 07:23:15 <skx> on lfnet
485 2010-11-28 07:23:17 <theymos> skx: Yes.
486 2010-11-28 07:24:53 <skx> that doesn't seem like many
487 2010-11-28 07:25:39 <theymos> It's lower on the weekend. It's also an odd time (for the US).
488 2010-11-28 07:25:48 <Diablo-D3> its 3:30am, and its also the weekend, and its also after thanksgiving
489 2010-11-28 07:26:07 <skx> ok
490 2010-11-28 07:26:10 <chronomex> it's not 3:30, I'm in the usa and it's 12:30.
491 2010-11-28 07:26:15 <AAA_awright> My client is *still* connecting to IRC?
492 2010-11-28 07:26:22 <Diablo-D3> its 3:30 est
493 2010-11-28 07:26:35 <AAA_awright> Oh please, the US spans something like 7 time zones
494 2010-11-28 07:26:39 <Diablo-D3> skx: also, most clients arent connecting to irc
495 2010-11-28 07:26:42 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: 4.
496 2010-11-28 07:26:53 <AAA_awright> And FYI It's 1:26
497 2010-11-28 07:26:58 <Diablo-D3> hawaii and alaska not included
498 2010-11-28 07:27:14 <skx> it's 9am, you're all in the wrong timezone
499 2010-11-28 07:27:19 <Diablo-D3> (alaska spans like 4 time zones >_>)
500 2010-11-28 07:27:26 <AAA_awright> Yeah
501 2010-11-28 07:27:31 <AAA_awright> EH?
502 2010-11-28 07:27:49 <skx> Diablo-D3, really? why? isn't it advantageous and should work through nats and other weird setups
503 2010-11-28 07:27:52 <skx> ?
504 2010-11-28 07:28:08 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: Just two it looks like
505 2010-11-28 07:28:20 <Diablo-D3> skx: why connect to IRC when you already have a large pool of clients to connect to
506 2010-11-28 07:28:31 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: I was making fun of Palin-land.
507 2010-11-28 07:28:53 <AAA_awright> It's massive, that much is true
508 2010-11-28 07:28:59 <skx> Diablo-D3, so... does bitcoin software stops connecting to irc after collecting enough peers?
509 2010-11-28 07:29:02 <skx> stop*
510 2010-11-28 07:29:13 <Diablo-D3> skx: think so
511 2010-11-28 07:29:32 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: except in texas, they make alaskas bigger.
512 2010-11-28 07:30:36 <theymos> Diablo-D3: It doesn't. You need to be connected to IRC so that you can receive incoming connections.
513 2010-11-28 07:31:16 <Diablo-D3> theymos: ahh, strange.
514 2010-11-28 07:31:23 <Diablo-D3> seems to be a security hazard =P
515 2010-11-28 07:32:24 <skx> being connected to irc? or accepting connections?
516 2010-11-28 07:32:42 <Diablo-D3> being on irc
517 2010-11-28 07:32:51 <skx> why? we're on irc right now
518 2010-11-28 07:32:59 <Diablo-D3> ZOMG IM BEING HAXED
519 2010-11-28 07:33:41 <skx> please don't hung up, while we hack your computer
520 2010-11-28 07:33:46 <skx> hang?*
521 2010-11-28 07:33:51 <Diablo-D3> fail
522 2010-11-28 07:35:12 <osmosis> any help with why poclbm asks for rpc auth over and over again?
523 2010-11-28 07:37:46 <osmosis> plllzzzz
524 2010-11-28 07:38:19 <LobsterMan> patience.....
525 2010-11-28 07:38:27 <LobsterMan> you could also ask in the actual miner thread :P
526 2010-11-28 07:38:33 <LobsterMan> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0
527 2010-11-28 07:39:14 <osmosis> LobsterMan, im seeing other people in the forums and irc logs with the same issue. no fix yet though.
528 2010-11-28 07:39:25 <LobsterMan> hmm
529 2010-11-28 07:39:29 <LobsterMan> what os/card are you using?
530 2010-11-28 07:41:47 <osmosis> LobsterMan, Ubuntu/ ATI
531 2010-11-28 07:42:31 <LobsterMan> yeah...not really sure, sorry :(
532 2010-11-28 07:42:37 <osmosis> LobsterMan, i have practically everything installed and working. its just that rcp connection failing now from poclbm to bitcoind
533 2010-11-28 07:42:43 <LobsterMan> i run nvidia cards on windows and i've had no problems
534 2010-11-28 07:42:52 <osmosis> LobsterMan, do you know how I can listen in on port 8332 with nc or tcpdump?
535 2010-11-28 07:43:18 <LobsterMan> i don't really have much experience with *nix, maybe someone else can help you
536 2010-11-28 07:46:46 <osmosis> LobsterMan, ahh! i figured it out
537 2010-11-28 07:46:58 <LobsterMan> :]
538 2010-11-28 07:47:01 <LobsterMan> what was the problem?
539 2010-11-28 07:47:04 <osmosis> LobsterMan, syntax was wrong in the bitcoin.conf
540 2010-11-28 07:47:10 <LobsterMan> lol
541 2010-11-28 07:47:12 <LobsterMan> facepalm-worthy
542 2010-11-28 07:47:17 <osmosis> LobsterMan, i tried connecting from the browser, and the user/pass wouldnt connect there either
543 2010-11-28 07:47:30 <osmosis> LobsterMan, yah...the blog with the instructions used the wrong syntax
544 2010-11-28 07:47:43 <LobsterMan> LOL.....
545 2010-11-28 07:47:49 <LobsterMan> you should probably inform the blog author
546 2010-11-28 07:48:00 <LobsterMan> what's the url, just out of curiousity?
547 2010-11-28 07:48:14 <osmosis> im only getting 11,000 khash/s though. is that what im suppose to get?
548 2010-11-28 07:48:24 <LobsterMan> depends on your card...
549 2010-11-28 07:48:49 <osmosis> LobsterMan, http://marko-simovic.com/prof/
550 2010-11-28 07:49:41 <Diablo-D3> [03:35:13] <osmosis> any help with why poclbm asks for rpc auth over and over again?
551 2010-11-28 07:49:51 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: because you never put it on the command line?
552 2010-11-28 07:49:51 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, i figured it out, thx
553 2010-11-28 07:49:54 <Diablo-D3> -u and -p
554 2010-11-28 07:50:13 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, it was actually bad rpcuser syntax in the bitcoin.conf file
555 2010-11-28 07:50:18 <Diablo-D3> ahh
556 2010-11-28 07:50:18 <osmosis> too simple
557 2010-11-28 07:50:32 <osmosis> im using a Radeon HD 4670 and getting 11000 khash/s
558 2010-11-28 07:51:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 4 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes, and 31 seconds
559 2010-11-28 07:51:08 <LobsterMan> rpcuser=youruser
560 2010-11-28 07:51:08 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 11000
561 2010-11-28 07:51:12 <nanotube> hmm
562 2010-11-28 07:51:17 <LobsterMan> i made a comment on the guy's blog post
563 2010-11-28 07:51:27 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: 11? that could be on par
564 2010-11-28 07:51:34 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: my 4850 does 75.
565 2010-11-28 07:51:41 <Diablo-D3> well, 77
566 2010-11-28 07:51:49 <Diablo-D3> well, closer to 78
567 2010-11-28 07:52:00 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, are there some other tweaks then i should look into?
568 2010-11-28 07:52:10 <Diablo-D3> yeah, use my miner
569 2010-11-28 07:52:33 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, not poclbm.py ?
570 2010-11-28 07:52:47 <LobsterMan> haha
571 2010-11-28 07:52:51 <Diablo-D3> not poclbm
572 2010-11-28 07:53:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 103000 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 3 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes, and 20 seconds
573 2010-11-28 07:53:03 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 103000
574 2010-11-28 07:53:06 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: also, if mine gets 78, yours should get around 37
575 2010-11-28 07:53:25 <Diablo-D3> though I suspect yours migh tbe even shittier
576 2010-11-28 07:54:05 <LobsterMan> bitcoin uses port 8333 right?
577 2010-11-28 07:54:07 <LobsterMan> tcp?
578 2010-11-28 07:54:15 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, so how do I get your miner?
579 2010-11-28 07:54:22 <LobsterMan> i think i'll write a post on my blog for how to setup bitcoin on windows :]
580 2010-11-28 07:54:29 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: see the forum thread.
581 2010-11-28 07:54:32 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: yes afiak
582 2010-11-28 07:54:37 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, does it work in ubuntu?
583 2010-11-28 07:54:44 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: in theory.
584 2010-11-28 07:57:51 <osmosis> someone on the forum says they get 295,000 khash/s on a ATI 5870
585 2010-11-28 07:58:05 <Diablo-D3> sounds about right
586 2010-11-28 07:58:32 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, the forum thread is 15 pages long. where is your post?
587 2010-11-28 07:58:42 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: no, I have my own thread.
588 2010-11-28 07:59:59 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,estimate
589 2010-11-28 08:00:00 <gribble> 7662.81130275
590 2010-11-28 08:00:14 <LobsterMan> will gribble give an estimated date of change of diff?
591 2010-11-28 08:00:34 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: yes, ut I forget the command
592 2010-11-28 08:00:43 <theymos> ;;bc,stats
593 2010-11-28 08:00:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94278 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 474 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 22 hours, 47 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7662.81130275
594 2010-11-28 08:00:56 <LobsterMan> ty ^_^
595 2010-11-28 08:01:21 <skx> ;;bc,calc 2977
596 2010-11-28 08:01:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2977 Khps, given current difficulty of 6866.89864897 , is 16 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes, and 28 seconds
597 2010-11-28 08:04:13 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, okay, im pulling down the git. yah, poclbm performance is horriable. my cpu usually gets 4000, and with poclbm i get 400.
598 2010-11-28 08:04:39 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: you could have used the binary zip
599 2010-11-28 08:04:53 <Diablo-D3> oh, an opencl performance on the cpu sucks
600 2010-11-28 08:05:00 <Diablo-D3> thats not really an indication of anything
601 2010-11-28 08:05:45 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, not on linux
602 2010-11-28 08:06:00 <Diablo-D3> it is if you're using ati sdk 2.2
603 2010-11-28 08:06:51 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, there is a binary zip for ati sdk 2.2 ?
604 2010-11-28 08:07:00 <AAA_awright> I don't know if it's because it's late at night but I just had a BRILLIANT MATHEMATICAL BREAKTHROUGH
605 2010-11-28 08:07:05 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, ....for linux
606 2010-11-28 08:07:07 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: erm, off ati's website?
607 2010-11-28 08:07:13 <Diablo-D3> you want 2.1, not 2.2
608 2010-11-28 08:07:28 <Diablo-D3> 2.2 has issues.
609 2010-11-28 08:07:34 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, yah...i even found some .deb packages. I got that installed already.
610 2010-11-28 08:07:51 <AAA_awright> We have the blocks to make sure that everyone stays on the same page and such, right? In theory the blocks can diverge... Instead of making the block graph diverge, why not allow each individual's transaction record to diverge?
611 2010-11-28 08:07:53 <Diablo-D3> I dont use the debs, I use the stuff off ati's site
612 2010-11-28 08:08:03 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, thats why it is afterall working with poclbm.py
613 2010-11-28 08:09:12 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, this might be a real basic java thing, http://dpaste.com/280773/
614 2010-11-28 08:09:34 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: you got from git, you have to build it first
615 2010-11-28 08:09:43 <Diablo-D3> run mvn package
616 2010-11-28 08:10:49 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, install maven2 ?
617 2010-11-28 08:10:55 <Diablo-D3> yes
618 2010-11-28 08:11:23 <AAA_awright> How many CSE gurus are in here?
619 2010-11-28 08:13:39 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: execute that with --help
620 2010-11-28 08:13:46 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: and btw, -s may or may not crash.
621 2010-11-28 08:16:19 <Diablo-D3> -s infact may not even work right
622 2010-11-28 08:16:23 <Diablo-D3> which is depressing
623 2010-11-28 08:16:45 <osmosis> mvn is downing stuff
624 2010-11-28 08:17:00 <Diablo-D3> yes, this is why most people use the binary zip =P
625 2010-11-28 08:17:10 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, where?
626 2010-11-28 08:17:27 <Diablo-D3> its in the op post of that thread next to the github link
627 2010-11-28 08:20:06 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Exception: No OpenCL platforms found.
628 2010-11-28 08:20:46 <Diablo-D3> did you forget to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
629 2010-11-28 08:21:15 <osmosis> does it have to be 32 bit, or does 64 work?
630 2010-11-28 08:21:23 <Diablo-D3> 64 works fine
631 2010-11-28 08:27:32 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, $LD_LIBRARY_PATH looks okay, still getting same error
632 2010-11-28 08:27:59 <Diablo-D3> how did you get poclbm running?
633 2010-11-28 08:28:06 <Diablo-D3> because you have to do the same stuff
634 2010-11-28 08:28:21 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, yah...poclbm stopped working for some reason too
635 2010-11-28 08:28:51 <Diablo-D3> "No OpenCL platforms found." usually means you didnt setup stuff right
636 2010-11-28 08:28:59 <osmosis> was working
637 2010-11-28 08:29:21 <Diablo-D3> for me, I have to: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/ati-stream/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
638 2010-11-28 08:29:31 <Diablo-D3> and then make sure I untarred the registration files
639 2010-11-28 08:29:46 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, i crashed a instance of poclbm, and the libraries stopped responding. maybe I need to kill something or reboot
640 2010-11-28 08:30:12 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: btw, you do have files named ati* in /etc/OpenCL/vendors right?
641 2010-11-28 08:30:34 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, i have no /etc/OpenCL/ folder
642 2010-11-28 08:30:48 <Diablo-D3> then how did you get this working at all?
643 2010-11-28 08:30:53 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, brb, gonna reboot
644 2010-11-28 08:31:00 <Diablo-D3> reboot probably wont fix it.
645 2010-11-28 08:36:26 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, yah, didnt fix it. im not sure
646 2010-11-28 08:37:46 <Diablo-D3> http://developer.amd.com/gpu/atistreamsdk/pages/default.aspx
647 2010-11-28 08:37:57 <Diablo-D3> see that icd-registration.tgz?
648 2010-11-28 08:38:08 <Diablo-D3> thats supposed to be tar zxvf in / as root
649 2010-11-28 08:38:58 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 and 2.2 require that to function right
650 2010-11-28 08:42:18 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, yah, that worked. so wierd that it was working before without it.
651 2010-11-28 08:43:13 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, okay, here we go: http://dpaste.com/280775/
652 2010-11-28 08:44:39 <Diablo-D3> are you using satoshi's getwork impl or m0's?
653 2010-11-28 08:45:18 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, satoshi
654 2010-11-28 08:45:27 <Diablo-D3> mine isnt compatible with satoshi's yet
655 2010-11-28 08:45:35 <LobsterMan> launching bitcoin with -server just basically says that there are going to be miners external to bitcoin.exe running, and to listen in for them and allow outside interaction
656 2010-11-28 08:45:37 <LobsterMan> ?
657 2010-11-28 08:45:53 <LobsterMan> and to allow rpc calls?
658 2010-11-28 08:45:55 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: -server is the same as doing bitcoind, but you still get the ui
659 2010-11-28 08:46:09 <LobsterMan> ok
660 2010-11-28 08:46:20 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, well crap...i already deleted the m0 binary i had compiled
661 2010-11-28 08:46:40 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: its on my todo list, but I have other stuff I need to fix in this thing first
662 2010-11-28 08:46:53 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, i just deleted it 5 min ago
663 2010-11-28 08:47:29 <osmosis> guess i need svn -r 186 bitcoin then
664 2010-11-28 08:48:10 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, ive been following this, http://marko-simovic.com/prof/2010/11/07/bitcoin-gpu-processing-server-configuration/
665 2010-11-28 08:48:29 <Diablo-D3> ugh
666 2010-11-28 08:48:34 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: do not follow those directions
667 2010-11-28 08:48:37 <Diablo-D3> they will fuck your shit up
668 2010-11-28 08:48:40 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, best i could find
669 2010-11-28 08:48:54 <Diablo-D3> _never ever ever_ use the driver installers from ati or nvidia on linux
670 2010-11-28 08:49:08 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, oh yah...i skipped that part. ubuntu lucids drivers are fine
671 2010-11-28 08:49:15 <Diablo-D3> ahh
672 2010-11-28 08:49:31 <Diablo-D3> wow all those directions are shit
673 2010-11-28 08:49:35 <Diablo-D3> step 5 no no no no no
674 2010-11-28 08:49:49 <Diablo-D3> step 6 is useless, ubuntu already builds pyopencl
675 2010-11-28 08:49:59 <Diablo-D3> step 7 is okay
676 2010-11-28 08:50:41 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, maybe if bitcoin had a wiki there would have been some decent instructions for setting this up. the forum certainly wasnt helpful
677 2010-11-28 08:50:42 <Diablo-D3> step 2 fails to install libdb4.7-dev and libdb4.7++-dev
678 2010-11-28 08:50:54 <LobsterMan> bitcoind.exe is just a gui-less client that runs in the background right?
679 2010-11-28 08:50:57 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: mining isnt meant for end users
680 2010-11-28 08:51:05 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: yes, no ui, does -server -daemon automatically
681 2010-11-28 08:51:39 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, somehow i do have libdb installed
682 2010-11-28 08:52:15 <Diablo-D3> osmosis: but the right one?
683 2010-11-28 08:52:17 <osmosis> Diablo-D3, i think i read the bitcoin unix.readme
684 2010-11-28 08:52:28 <Diablo-D3> if its not exactly 4.7, you can screw stuff up and not realize it
685 2010-11-28 08:52:39 <osmosis> yah, i got 4.7
686 2010-11-28 08:55:12 <LobsterMan> does anyone have the url to the current block count?
687 2010-11-28 08:56:35 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,blocks
688 2010-11-28 08:56:35 <gribble> 94282
689 2010-11-28 08:56:37 <LobsterMan> isn't there a url though?
690 2010-11-28 08:56:54 <Diablo-D3> dunno
691 2010-11-28 08:56:58 <Diablo-D3> so
692 2010-11-28 08:57:06 <Diablo-D3> -s is fucked.
693 2010-11-28 08:57:27 <LobsterMan> http://blockexplorer.com/q/getblockcount
694 2010-11-28 08:57:30 <LobsterMan> hah
695 2010-11-28 08:57:41 <LobsterMan> and the block chain is basically a list of all the transactions and whatnot?
696 2010-11-28 08:58:28 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: basically
697 2010-11-28 08:58:56 <theymos> Yes. It provides reliable and tamper-resistant ordering information for transactions in order to prevent double-spending.
698 2010-11-28 09:00:36 <osmosis_> Diablo-D3, -s froze everything
699 2010-11-28 09:00:48 <Diablo-D3> osmosis_: yeah, dont use it.
700 2010-11-28 09:00:54 <Diablo-D3> I think Im going to remove it.
701 2010-11-28 09:01:12 <osmosis_> Diablo-D3, so 11500 khash/sec, thats it?
702 2010-11-28 09:01:30 <Diablo-D3> 128 is the default local work size on yours?
703 2010-11-28 09:01:46 <osmosis_> Diablo-D3, yes. i tried -w 64 -v 2 and it went slower
704 2010-11-28 09:01:52 <Diablo-D3> try it without -v 2
705 2010-11-28 09:02:37 <osmosis_> 11900
706 2010-11-28 09:02:56 <Diablo-D3> osmosis_: -w 32 maaaaay be more optimal, but your hardware is weird
707 2010-11-28 09:03:09 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure why ati produced hardware that -w max is 128
708 2010-11-28 09:03:15 <Diablo-D3> my 4850 is 256
709 2010-11-28 09:03:22 <Diablo-D3> works fastest on 64
710 2010-11-28 09:03:42 <osmosis_> Diablo-D3, why does it say Added ATI RV730 ...thats not my card. HD 4860
711 2010-11-28 09:04:01 <Diablo-D3> I thought you said it was a 4670?
712 2010-11-28 09:04:08 <osmosis_> err..yah, probably
713 2010-11-28 09:04:26 <Diablo-D3> 4670 is a rv730 xt
714 2010-11-28 09:04:31 <Diablo-D3> so the name it returns is correct
715 2010-11-28 09:04:35 <osmosis_> Radeon HD 4670
716 2010-11-28 09:05:01 <osmosis_> so my hardware is weird then?
717 2010-11-28 09:05:12 <Diablo-D3> its slow, thats for sure
718 2010-11-28 09:05:17 <osmosis_> wtf!
719 2010-11-28 09:05:19 <Diablo-D3> on gflops, its less than half the speed of mine
720 2010-11-28 09:05:33 <osmosis_> its in a dell studio xps laptop
721 2010-11-28 09:05:45 <Diablo-D3> wait, you didnt say it was a mobile chip
722 2010-11-28 09:05:58 <osmosis_> didnt know it was different
723 2010-11-28 09:06:03 <Diablo-D3> yes, its different
724 2010-11-28 09:06:28 <Diablo-D3> 4670 mobile is 432 gflops
725 2010-11-28 09:06:33 <osmosis_> well...guess thats the end of the road for me then.
726 2010-11-28 09:06:56 <Diablo-D3> vs... 480. I guess its not that slow at all.
727 2010-11-28 09:06:56 <osmosis_> its been fun. thanks for your help. 2am here.
728 2010-11-28 09:07:05 <Diablo-D3> my 4850 gets 1000, btw
729 2010-11-28 09:07:44 <Diablo-D3> osmosis_: so yeah, I dont expect much out of your laptop
730 2010-11-28 09:07:52 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing you can do
731 2010-11-28 09:08:01 <Diablo-D3> but it seems strange its that low
732 2010-11-28 09:08:04 <Diablo-D3> it should be in the 30s
733 2010-11-28 09:17:24 <LobsterMan> if you start up bitcoin.exe with -server, but have not yet created bitcoin.conf, will you need to restart bitcoin after creating/saving bitcoin.conf in order to use an external miner?
734 2010-11-28 09:21:42 <theymos> Yes.
735 2010-11-28 09:25:02 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: no, you have to stop bitcoin first THEN do it and then start it again
736 2010-11-28 09:25:14 <Diablo-D3> otherwise you cant do ./bitcoin stop
737 2010-11-28 09:25:14 <LobsterMan> yeah that's what i thought
738 2010-11-28 09:25:30 <LobsterMan> i'm writing a tutorial on setting up miners under windows
739 2010-11-28 09:25:35 <LobsterMan> just making sure i order it correctly
740 2010-11-28 09:25:39 <Diablo-D3> heh
741 2010-11-28 09:25:44 <Diablo-D3> welp, there goes split mode
742 2010-11-28 09:25:46 <Diablo-D3> bye bye
743 2010-11-28 09:27:09 <LobsterMan> :P
744 2010-11-28 09:27:27 <Diablo-D3> now I'm back to around 75 mhash
745 2010-11-28 09:27:38 <AAA_awright> I HAVE A POSSIBLE BREAKTHROUGH where should I pastebin
746 2010-11-28 09:27:52 <AAA_awright> This makes me sound like a complete idiot doesn't it
747 2010-11-28 09:27:53 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: then fucking do it
748 2010-11-28 09:28:04 <Diablo-D3> it makes you sound like an annoying cunt, really
749 2010-11-28 09:28:09 <Diablo-D3> although thats sort of the same thing, I guess
750 2010-11-28 09:28:36 <LobsterMan> poclbm == pyopencl bitcoin miner?
751 2010-11-28 09:28:45 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: Actually I didn't finish taking a look at the maths until now that's why I message again, sheesh
752 2010-11-28 09:28:47 <Diablo-D3> python opencl bitcoin miner, yes
753 2010-11-28 09:29:05 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: well, you asked if it made you sound like a complete idiot: I corrected you.
754 2010-11-28 09:31:35 <CIA-87> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r9c64893 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Added frozen executor detection, added 30 second khash meter average, removed split mode - http://bit.ly/em9kuG
755 2010-11-28 09:32:30 <AAA_awright> It's a very voodoo function I describe and probably doesn't exist but who knows, how many crypto people are here? http://pastebin.com/y5c3MixB
756 2010-11-28 09:38:32 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: s/person/address/
757 2010-11-28 09:38:45 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: all you did was basically turn bitcoin into git/hg.
758 2010-11-28 09:39:16 <AAA_awright> Not quite because you are completely ignoring all transactions that don't involve you
759 2010-11-28 09:39:19 <Diablo-D3> so you can now, technically, transaction block merge from different revision parents across forks
760 2010-11-28 09:40:11 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: which is how git/hg works for patch chunks in theory
761 2010-11-28 09:41:16 <AAA_awright> Yeah, I mean, you aren't explicitly storing every single transaction like Git would, each transaction transparently includes every transaction before it.
762 2010-11-28 09:41:47 <Diablo-D3> you're still explicitly storing them
763 2010-11-28 09:41:56 <Diablo-D3> you're just changing block merge dynamics
764 2010-11-28 09:42:33 <Diablo-D3> as in, the parent block of your new transaction is the last block that you had a transaction in
765 2010-11-28 09:42:40 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: there is, however, a slight problem
766 2010-11-28 09:42:58 <AAA_awright> You aren't in the sense that it doesn't matter if a billion or zero transactions happened before yours did, how much you have to store is proportional to how many transactions you have made
767 2010-11-28 09:42:59 <AAA_awright> I think I see it
768 2010-11-28 09:42:59 <Diablo-D3> person is defined as address... but now that we have new address spamming as a security feature, you have a lot of chains that are short
769 2010-11-28 09:43:13 <Diablo-D3> and now these chains are uselessly unlinked
770 2010-11-28 09:43:14 <Diablo-D3> ergo
771 2010-11-28 09:43:23 <Diablo-D3> you've just broken bitcoin
772 2010-11-28 09:44:21 <Diablo-D3> and redefining person as coin (ie, it tracks the coin across transactions, so the coin itself is a chain) doesn't seem to fix it
773 2010-11-28 09:44:35 <Diablo-D3> and it also makes it more complex than what we already have
774 2010-11-28 09:44:49 <Diablo-D3> since the entire point of the chain of work _is_ to care what others are doing
775 2010-11-28 09:45:12 <Diablo-D3> A cant send to B unless [C ... Z] agree that the transaction is valid
776 2010-11-28 09:45:45 <Diablo-D3> and blocks are actually transaction bundles in that if one transaction in the bundle is not valid, its possible the rest in the bundle isnt either
777 2010-11-28 09:46:06 <Diablo-D3> and are chained together using the time frequency domain instead of the transaction dependency domain
778 2010-11-28 09:46:15 <Diablo-D3> which is more efficient
779 2010-11-28 09:47:18 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: so, bam, satoshi is still smarter than you =P
780 2010-11-28 09:47:22 <AAA_awright> This takes advantage of the fact that [C..] doesn't care what A and B did until you make a transaction with them
781 2010-11-28 09:47:33 <Diablo-D3> except [C...Z] DOES care
782 2010-11-28 09:47:41 <Diablo-D3> because at no point can a false transaction enter the chain
783 2010-11-28 09:47:50 <AAA_awright> There is no "chain" here
784 2010-11-28 09:48:11 <Diablo-D3> there is a chain, all you've done is convert it to a half assed transaction dependency chain
785 2010-11-28 09:48:58 <Diablo-D3> either you track the coin itself, or you track transaction dependency across addresses
786 2010-11-28 09:49:02 <AAA_awright> With no need to explicitly keep track of individual transactions
787 2010-11-28 09:49:16 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: which removes security
788 2010-11-28 09:49:35 <AAA_awright> Ah
789 2010-11-28 09:49:58 <Diablo-D3> the only way to track transactions is in the time domain
790 2010-11-28 09:50:08 <Diablo-D3> which is how bitcoin does it
791 2010-11-28 09:50:10 <AAA_awright> What is at stake of being lost?
792 2010-11-28 09:50:18 <Diablo-D3> chain history
793 2010-11-28 09:50:49 <Diablo-D3> I could very easily play a card game using my own clients using parallel trees and then shuffle it into other people's chains
794 2010-11-28 09:51:01 <Diablo-D3> it'd be much harder to mathematically prove I didn't do it
795 2010-11-28 09:51:31 <Diablo-D3> and even if it is found, it may not be found until its already poisoned other users
796 2010-11-28 09:52:17 <Diablo-D3> this way, using the time domain, [A...Z] all agree that, at this point, the known chain is valid and not tampered with
797 2010-11-28 09:52:38 <Diablo-D3> your way, [C...Z] does not check until it already has a sub-history
798 2010-11-28 09:52:44 <Diablo-D3> which may or may not involve the victims
799 2010-11-28 09:53:12 <Diablo-D3> so if [C...Z] reject B (the victim), then A wins by sticking B with counterfit money
800 2010-11-28 09:54:15 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: so any solution, no matter how clever, is broken if it contains either a) makes chain verification harder due to not all data being contained in the chain, b) makes [C...Z] ignore parts of the chain because it doesnt involve them
801 2010-11-28 09:54:30 <Diablo-D3> every member of the entire system has to agree that the entire chain is valid.
802 2010-11-28 09:54:37 <Diablo-D3> otherwise, essentially, its not.
803 2010-11-28 09:55:01 <Diablo-D3> you cant mathematically prove that it has not been tampered with unless you prove the entire thing, not merely just the parts that involve you
804 2010-11-28 09:55:23 <AAA_awright> What would tampering be, over-spending?
805 2010-11-28 09:55:32 <AAA_awright> Double-spending rather
806 2010-11-28 09:55:46 <Diablo-D3> double spending is just a subset of counterfeiting
807 2010-11-28 09:56:11 <Diablo-D3> any method that can create coins for the purposes of fraudulent transactions tampers with the chain
808 2010-11-28 09:59:20 <LobsterMan> how can one determine the maximum worksize supported by their card
809 2010-11-28 10:01:11 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: my and m0's defaults to it
810 2010-11-28 10:01:15 <Diablo-D3> its most likely 256.
811 2010-11-28 10:01:18 <AAA_awright> Has this been proven anywhere? The only way I can come up with is A sends money to B and C from the same block, so that B and C cannot reconsile who has what. Which transaction is the accepted one would likly be determined by who gets the information out first, let's say B is victimized, it will simply find it cannot spend money from that block and will revert to another one that is accepted.
812 2010-11-28 10:01:21 <LobsterMan> how can you determine that number though?
813 2010-11-28 10:01:30 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: by executing the function for it.
814 2010-11-28 10:01:44 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: mine actually outputs it, btw
815 2010-11-28 10:01:54 <Diablo-D3> dont do -w, and it'll happily print it
816 2010-11-28 10:01:54 <LobsterMan> ya i know ;]
817 2010-11-28 10:02:29 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: yes, but that means all you did was add more complex work to bitcoin without actually improving anything
818 2010-11-28 10:03:02 <LobsterMan> does the work size need to be a power of 2?
819 2010-11-28 10:03:04 <AAA_awright> The improvement is no chain history to keep track o
820 2010-11-28 10:03:05 <AAA_awright> *of
821 2010-11-28 10:03:22 <AAA_awright> *chain/block history
822 2010-11-28 10:03:49 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: yes
823 2010-11-28 10:03:56 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: and on radeon, it has to be 64 or above
824 2010-11-28 10:04:11 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: which isnt an improvement since I cant single handedly prove the entire chain
825 2010-11-28 10:05:04 <LobsterMan> less than 64 has worked for me with my gtx275
826 2010-11-28 10:05:09 <Diablo-D3> oh it works
827 2010-11-28 10:05:11 <Diablo-D3> it just works slower
828 2010-11-28 10:05:12 <LobsterMan> and if i try to use larger than 512 the miner wont launch
829 2010-11-28 10:05:16 <Diablo-D3> and nvidia I think the min is 32
830 2010-11-28 10:05:23 <Diablo-D3> some nvidia cards have a 512 max
831 2010-11-28 10:05:26 <AAA_awright> I'm not seeing why you need to prove the entire chain then, if that example is the worst that can happen
832 2010-11-28 10:05:29 <LobsterMan> i've gotten it to run with as low as 1, but it gets like 2mhash lol
833 2010-11-28 10:05:42 <AAA_awright> And mitigated by simply asking your peers "hey does this look valid"
834 2010-11-28 10:05:42 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: because then you dont know if it has been tampered with or not
835 2010-11-28 10:05:53 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: cant trust your peers.
836 2010-11-28 10:06:13 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: nvidia and amd will happily run with any value below the max
837 2010-11-28 10:06:18 <ArtForz> hrrrm... worksizes <64 might be a decent way to throttle cards
838 2010-11-28 10:06:24 <LobsterMan> hehehe
839 2010-11-28 10:06:28 <LobsterMan> ArtForz is inspired ;D
840 2010-11-28 10:06:36 <AAA_awright> Personal friends, why not? Also, what is tampering? Is that example the worst that can happen?
841 2010-11-28 10:06:41 <Diablo-D3> LobsterMan: you just lose speed for it not being power of 2, and you will lose speed for it not being the minimum efficient size, 64 for amd, 32 for nvidia
842 2010-11-28 10:06:41 <LobsterMan> i have not checked the effect of small worksizes on temperature, only hashrate
843 2010-11-28 10:06:54 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: I think satoshi came up with worse ones
844 2010-11-28 10:06:59 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: go bring it up with him
845 2010-11-28 10:07:05 <AAA_awright> mhm
846 2010-11-28 10:07:21 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: but being able to prove the entire chain is the biggest feature bitcoin has
847 2010-11-28 10:07:29 <Diablo-D3> removing that doesnt help your case.
848 2010-11-28 10:07:50 <AAA_awright> ...prove it for what?
849 2010-11-28 10:08:31 <Diablo-D3> that it is valid.
850 2010-11-28 10:08:36 <Diablo-D3> prove as in the mathematical definition of such
851 2010-11-28 10:09:29 <AAA_awright> Prove that it has no double spending (or what else?)... which is what the hash function does too, by definition, simply by examining it you can tell nothing has been double spent
852 2010-11-28 10:09:51 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: I could falsely create coins too
853 2010-11-28 10:10:05 <Diablo-D3> as long as I have a big enough army saying that my transactions are right
854 2010-11-28 10:10:14 <AAA_awright> Any problems you describe seem to also be in Bitcoin now, if the block chain forks for some reason
855 2010-11-28 10:10:57 <AAA_awright> You couldn't steal any coins from other people nor could you create new ones
856 2010-11-28 10:11:16 <AAA_awright> By definition (which again might be impossible)
857 2010-11-28 10:11:20 <Diablo-D3> who needs to steal when you can just inflate
858 2010-11-28 10:11:29 <Diablo-D3> the government does it, and its worked for them for awhile
859 2010-11-28 10:12:01 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: your solution doesnt stamp out forks
860 2010-11-28 10:12:05 <AAA_awright> No one would accept a transaction where the total sum of currency is different than theirs
861 2010-11-28 10:13:10 <AAA_awright> Which is of course impossible without a central authority
862 2010-11-28 10:13:38 <AAA_awright> Forks wouldn't be bad so long as there isn't an individual who has access to both forks
863 2010-11-28 10:13:42 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: but thats where you go wrong
864 2010-11-28 10:13:55 <Diablo-D3> if it can happen, it will, and people will seek to do it
865 2010-11-28 10:14:09 <Diablo-D3> also, the chain itself IS a central authority of sorts.
866 2010-11-28 10:14:37 <Diablo-D3> you cant do anything unless the chain allows you to.
867 2010-11-28 10:14:38 <AAA_awright> The chain can fork, correct?
868 2010-11-28 10:15:33 <Diablo-D3> on bitcoin? no.
869 2010-11-28 10:15:37 <Diablo-D3> forks are stamped out.
870 2010-11-28 10:15:56 <AAA_awright> When it joins back together, then
871 2010-11-28 10:16:41 <Diablo-D3> actually, its closer to rejected
872 2010-11-28 10:16:54 <Diablo-D3> this is why bitcoin resubmits transactions that didnt make it in
873 2010-11-28 10:19:44 <AAA_awright> The parallel would be that the hash is modified in a predictable way so it would simply be merged in if it didn't decend from any double-spending transactions
874 2010-11-28 10:20:19 <AAA_awright> Are any more of the technical considerations available anywhere?
875 2010-11-28 10:20:32 <Diablo-D3> ask satoshi
876 2010-11-28 10:20:46 <AAA_awright> I figured
877 2010-11-28 10:21:17 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: Thanks
878 2010-11-28 10:39:38 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/random/how-to-get-started-using-your-gpu-to-mine-for-bitcoins-on-windows
879 2010-11-28 10:39:39 <LobsterMan> ;)
880 2010-11-28 10:44:07 <LobsterMan> critique welcome
881 2010-11-28 10:44:08 <LobsterMan> lol
882 2010-11-28 10:44:10 <LobsterMan> if anyone reads all of that
883 2010-11-28 10:44:31 <LobsterMan> i put a link to your miner at the bottom too Diablo-D3 ;P
884 2010-11-28 12:07:17 <Zarutian> http://www.contingencymarket.com/index.php?title=Introduction <- does such a market exists for btc?
885 2010-11-28 12:22:15 <LobsterMan> isn't that how futures work?
886 2010-11-28 12:23:12 <Diablo-D3> oh get this
887 2010-11-28 12:23:18 <Diablo-D3> I FINALLY generated a block with my miner
888 2010-11-28 12:24:44 <noagendamarket> a prediction market?
889 2010-11-28 12:33:46 <altamic> AAA_awright: http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=satoshi+nakamoto&l=cryptography%40metzdowd.com
890 2010-11-28 12:37:57 <sneak> woohoo, i hit the minter jackpot today
891 2010-11-28 12:38:34 <sneak> got like 6 blocks yesterday when i normally get ~1.5
892 2010-11-28 12:39:10 <tcatm> nice
893 2010-11-28 12:39:25 <tcatm> now you'll have days where you won't get any block at all :)
894 2010-11-28 12:39:35 <sneak> gambler's fallacy
895 2010-11-28 12:39:50 <sneak> nothing "comes due" due to previous outcomes
896 2010-11-28 12:39:50 <tcatm> my highest jackpot was 30
897 2010-11-28 12:40:06 <sneak> my chances of solving a block are the same per hash-check now as they were yesterday
898 2010-11-28 13:01:51 <xelister> bc;stats
899 2010-11-28 13:01:55 <xelister> bc;stat
900 2010-11-28 13:01:58 <xelister> ;bc;stat
901 2010-11-28 13:02:03 <xelister> ;bc;stats
902 2010-11-28 13:02:04 <xelister> :<
903 2010-11-28 13:10:17 <Diablo-D3> ;bc,stats
904 2010-11-28 13:10:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: there, you got what you fucking want
905 2010-11-28 13:16:34 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
906 2010-11-28 13:16:34 <LobsterMan> ;;bc.stats
907 2010-11-28 13:16:37 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
908 2010-11-28 13:16:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94306 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94752 | Next Difficulty In: 446 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7656.44858749
909 2010-11-28 13:22:15 <xelister> Diablo-D3: woot, new version I see
910 2010-11-28 13:22:38 <xelister> Diablo-D3: what about more friendly/niced mode of operation?
911 2010-11-28 13:23:08 <Diablo-D3> xelister: -f 1000
912 2010-11-28 13:23:18 <xelister> even with -f 3000 flash sucks
913 2010-11-28 13:23:33 <Diablo-D3> only if you're using a broken compositor
914 2010-11-28 13:23:34 <xelister> I mean, flash always sucks, but playback of flash videos speed suck
915 2010-11-28 13:23:46 <xelister> I dont use 3d desktop etc, normal 2d mode
916 2010-11-28 13:24:04 <Diablo-D3> yes, but are you using a compositor?
917 2010-11-28 13:24:50 <xelister> dunno.. how to check?
918 2010-11-28 13:25:07 <Diablo-D3> what desktop environment?
919 2010-11-28 13:25:44 <xelister> gnome
920 2010-11-28 13:26:39 <Diablo-D3> I think metacity can do compositing now
921 2010-11-28 13:26:42 <Diablo-D3> and its probably broken
922 2010-11-28 13:26:54 <Diablo-D3> xelister: does it go away when you renice -20 metacity
923 2010-11-28 13:31:25 <xelister> Diablo-D3: no
924 2010-11-28 13:31:47 <xelister> the biggest problem is mouse cursor movement actually
925 2010-11-28 13:32:02 <xelister> it can be so slow as shit that it is hard to point with mouse because it lags 1 second behind your movement
926 2010-11-28 13:32:25 <xelister> depends on what is under the mouse
927 2010-11-28 13:32:30 <Diablo-D3> hrrrrm
928 2010-11-28 13:32:33 <Diablo-D3> well, I dont have it here
929 2010-11-28 13:32:44 <xelister> run youtube and move mouse over the comments area
930 2010-11-28 13:33:36 <Diablo-D3> working fine for me.
931 2010-11-28 13:33:44 <Diablo-D3> infact Im watching a youtube video as we speak
932 2010-11-28 13:33:50 <xelister> haha American slaves
933 2010-11-28 13:34:35 <xelister> apparently you dont care too much about stripping and groping by some fellow slaves that are dressed in blue, so why not
934 2010-11-28 13:36:10 <xelister> Diablo-D3: are you printing the 30 second average speed?
935 2010-11-28 13:36:29 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes.
936 2010-11-28 13:37:14 <xelister> are you printing it /instead/ of the global speed?
937 2010-11-28 13:37:19 <xelister> if yes thet it sucks, print both
938 2010-11-28 13:37:39 <xelister> or better: last 1 sec, 30 sec, and session
939 2010-11-28 13:37:51 <Diablo-D3> xelister: global speed is gone.
940 2010-11-28 13:37:54 <Diablo-D3> 30 second is good enough
941 2010-11-28 13:38:00 <Diablo-D3> I hacked around the problem I had with it
942 2010-11-28 13:39:03 <xelister> it sucks cocks that it doestn show global speed
943 2010-11-28 13:39:25 <Diablo-D3> global speed really isnt that useful now that I have 30 second working
944 2010-11-28 14:05:10 <Diablo-D3> weee
945 2010-11-28 14:05:14 <Diablo-D3> supcom2 is now $3.75 on steam
946 2010-11-28 14:11:11 <altamic> manveru here? wow
947 2010-11-28 14:12:28 <xelister> whos manveru
948 2010-11-28 14:12:47 <altamic> a ruby hacker
949 2010-11-28 14:13:15 <altamic> one of the best
950 2010-11-28 14:21:17 <manveru> oO
951 2010-11-28 14:21:34 <manveru> altamic: hi there, how do you know me? :)
952 2010-11-28 14:21:51 <altamic> by your code :) I've also tried your editor :)