1 2010-11-30 00:12:27 <kermit> "banks need people a lot more than people need banks" -- http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2010/11/the_irish_banking_crisis_a_par.html
  2 2010-11-30 01:34:17 <xelister> Diablo-D3: wazup o/
  3 2010-11-30 01:34:45 <xelister> Diablo-D3: Im thinking of adding openpgp (or other signatures) based download(over http) + verify auto updater, would you recommend something?
  4 2010-11-30 01:51:36 <ne0futur> xelister: in any case having pgp is useful for currency exchanges
  5 2010-11-30 01:51:39 <andrew12> haha
  6 2010-11-30 01:51:41 <andrew12> 1iDonOTwAntYouRBITcoInsSAvEthem
  7 2010-11-30 01:51:53 <Diablo-D3> xelister: meh.
  8 2010-11-30 01:56:08 <MT`AwAy> pgp is just a pain to embed into software
  9 2010-11-30 02:03:04 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
 10 2010-11-30 02:03:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94631 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 120 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 17 hours, 13 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7969.74167797
 11 2010-11-30 02:04:21 <Kiba> chinese susasage awesome
 12 2010-11-30 02:41:01 <nanotube> jgarzik: so... how's the block download with your changes? got that working yet? :)
 13 2010-11-30 02:50:56 <Kiba> ArtForz must be feeling the pain today
 14 2010-11-30 02:51:41 <xelister> Kiba: because of drop?
 15 2010-11-30 02:51:56 <Kiba> hai
 16 2010-11-30 02:51:57 <xelister> btw what is current lowest $/BTC in electricity price alone?
 17 2010-11-30 02:52:30 <xelister> because this should be unbreakable lowest price (x1.5 because of hardware and people who can actually run a pro miner)
 18 2010-11-30 02:55:06 <xelister> daily say 3 blocks = 150 BTC on 5970
 19 2010-11-30 02:55:09 <nanotube> xelister: people for whom electricity is free, $0/btc.
 20 2010-11-30 02:55:33 <nanotube> xelister: e.g, artforz, for whom in the winter, he'd be heating his place anyway, so he might as well get some cpu work out of it.
 21 2010-11-30 02:55:34 <nanotube> :)
 22 2010-11-30 02:55:51 <nanotube> also people who run this on work/school computers, or people for whom utilities are included in rent
 23 2010-11-30 02:56:08 <xelister> damn communists
 24 2010-11-30 02:56:11 <nanotube> haha
 25 2010-11-30 02:56:11 <xelister> ;)
 26 2010-11-30 02:56:47 <nanotube> also, even assuming non-zero price for electricity, the price/btc will change depending on difficulty
 27 2010-11-30 02:56:47 <xelister> isnt electrical heating noticibly more expensive then global heating
 28 2010-11-30 02:56:57 <xelister> also, you either run it at school, or you have heating at home
 29 2010-11-30 02:56:59 <xelister> rarery both
 30 2010-11-30 02:57:09 <jgarzik> nanotube: the local block import is blazing fast with the patch I posted
 31 2010-11-30 02:57:15 <xelister> even then, you don't just find 10 5970's in your garrage
 32 2010-11-30 02:57:20 <jgarzik> nanotube: I'm blatantly assuming the block download is faster too
 33 2010-11-30 02:57:27 <nanotube> xelister: /me goes to look in the garage.
 34 2010-11-30 02:57:42 <nanotube> jgarzik: cool ;) that'd be great, to drop the startup cost to a newcomer.
 35 2010-11-30 02:58:02 <xelister> for me with stock bitcoin it takes around 15 minutes to catchup on fresh install
 36 2010-11-30 02:58:22 <jgarzik> another key piece is P2P peer competition:  bitcoin seems to pick one peer for the initial block download, which has all the obvious problems (might be slow; might not have all the blocks; ...) and it takes forever to pick a new peer
 37 2010-11-30 02:58:53 <jgarzik> my first test was blazingly fast... up to block 82000, where the download stopped cold for over an hour.
 38 2010-11-30 02:58:56 <xelister> hmm for me it takes 5-8 connections in around 15 minutes too
 39 2010-11-30 02:59:06 <xelister> but any speedups are really nice anyway :)
 40 2010-11-30 02:59:15 <nanotube> jgarzik: mmm well, i hope satoshi takes a serious look at that. :)
 41 2010-11-30 02:59:32 <nanotube> xelister: for me it took about an hour to get all blocks, back when we were at 60-some k blocks
 42 2010-11-30 03:00:05 <xelister> yeah I ment today
 43 2010-11-30 03:00:32 <nanotube> haha
 44 2010-11-30 03:02:21 <tylergillies> is it just me or is bitcoin forums lagsauce right now?
 45 2010-11-30 03:02:51 <Diablo-D3> blah
 46 2010-11-30 03:02:57 <nanotube> tylergillies: just you
 47 2010-11-30 03:02:58 <Diablo-D3> I just played supcom2 for 9 hours
 48 2010-11-30 03:03:58 <xelister> Diablo-D3: congratulations
 49 2010-11-30 03:05:09 <xelister> I this time I made both your miner and bitcoind crossbuildable to win
 50 2010-11-30 03:05:30 <xelister> mine.bat for win is same, just ; instead : in lib path
 51 2010-11-30 03:06:13 <Diablo-D3> and  instead of /
 52 2010-11-30 03:08:29 <tylergillies> you just rm -fr /
 53 2010-11-30 03:08:33 <tylergillies> and away you go
 54 2010-11-30 03:23:16 <Kiba> now, finally
 55 2010-11-30 03:23:22 <Kiba> I can hack some code
 56 2010-11-30 03:50:08 <forrestv> is setting up a kind of bank possible? make it easier for users to use bitcoins by providing some infrastructure?
 57 2010-11-30 03:53:21 <doublec> That's essentially what mybitcoin.com is, isn't it?
 58 2010-11-30 03:53:40 <doublec> mtgox also provides similar functionality
 59 2010-11-30 03:57:33 <jgarzik> yep
 60 2010-11-30 04:07:07 <Kiba> The last day of November is on us!
 61 2010-11-30 04:07:31 <Kiba> a milestone month
 62 2010-11-30 04:07:46 <doublec> it's almost over for some of us
 63 2010-11-30 04:08:08 <Kiba> in just 4 hours, 115 posts had already been posted
 64 2010-11-30 04:38:45 <xelister> is it foxnews subscribers, or are in fact most online active people from USA a what appears to be a mass off racist nationalist rednecks
 65 2010-11-30 04:38:54 <xelister> *of
 66 2010-11-30 04:39:29 <Kiba> xelister: yeah, but you'll be taking a moment to adjust
 67 2010-11-30 04:39:32 <MT`AwAy> [it] is so sophisticated that soldiers are proficient users literally within minutes <-- shouldn't it be the other way around?
 68 2010-11-30 04:39:50 <Kiba> *pop* up, and shoot the guy adjusting
 69 2010-11-30 04:40:01 <xelister> MT`AwAy: yeah I dont understand that phrase either
 70 2010-11-30 04:40:13 <xelister> "our boys" will kill.. "the bad guys"
 71 2010-11-30 04:40:48 <MT`AwAy> It also has a range of roughly 2,300 feet <- 0.7km
 72 2010-11-30 04:40:50 <xelister> probably that's not far away from average discussion in SS barracks
 73 2010-11-30 04:41:07 <xelister> really all comments are like that
 74 2010-11-30 04:41:19 <Kiba> training snipers is a very difficult job
 75 2010-11-30 04:41:31 <Kiba> imagine training all your infantry men!
 76 2010-11-30 04:41:31 <xelister> are 90% Americans forgetting they are the bad invadors in this war, or is foxnews massivly censuring the comments O_o
 77 2010-11-30 04:41:55 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: now you don't need training, your sniper is ready within minutes, just add some hot water and cover
 78 2010-11-30 04:42:26 <xelister> what this riffle needs, is a clippy assistant tutorial
 79 2010-11-30 04:42:57 <Kiba> xelister: hmm, I have a feeling that this weapon won't do much than my trusty M-16 or AK-47, especially in a heated firefight
 80 2010-11-30 04:43:05 <xelister> who to you want to kill today  (*) the bad guys  ( ) the terrorists  ( ) the dragons
 81 2010-11-30 04:43:38 <Kiba> but we never know right?
 82 2010-11-30 04:43:53 <xelister> well to me it sounds like the "good guys" will be shelling out tons of $ on expensive toys, that will break in real world conditions for milion reasons
 83 2010-11-30 04:44:00 <MT`AwAy> "That's how intuitively easy it is, even though it's high-tech," Lehner said. "All a soldier needs to know how to do is laze the target. It decimates anything within its lethal radius." <- can't wait to see that used in US universities
 84 2010-11-30 04:44:25 <xelister> and then the partisants will come in sandals and shoot everyone with AK-47, repairable with rocks and toothpaste/waster if needed
 85 2010-11-30 04:44:31 <Kiba> LOL
 86 2010-11-30 04:44:44 <Kiba> AK-47 is basically the open source rifle of the world
 87 2010-11-30 04:44:53 <Kiba> used by EVIL and GOOD...mostly EVIL
 88 2010-11-30 04:45:01 <xelister> now define evil
 89 2010-11-30 04:45:06 <Kiba> xelister: war-mongers
 90 2010-11-30 04:45:20 <Kiba> faggots that massacre whole villages...
 91 2010-11-30 04:45:20 <xelister> but the USA starts most wars, not viceversa
 92 2010-11-30 04:45:27 <xelister> so.. americans?
 93 2010-11-30 04:45:29 <Kiba> xelister: ain't talking about all the wars US start
 94 2010-11-30 04:45:42 <Kiba> just all the conflict that had occured variously around the world
 95 2010-11-30 04:45:47 <Kiba> blood diamond war...
 96 2010-11-30 04:45:49 <Kiba> that sorta thing
 97 2010-11-30 04:45:53 <MT`AwAy> some people still do wars without the help of US
 98 2010-11-30 04:46:11 <Kiba> yes, US isn't to blame for everything
 99 2010-11-30 04:46:30 <xelister> yeah, we see all the time the Good Americans  rescuing children in Affrica from diamond mines slavery, protectin China's desidents and rescuing them from work camps
100 2010-11-30 04:46:32 <xelister> no... wait...
101 2010-11-30 04:46:34 <Kiba> even if they are mean bullies
102 2010-11-30 04:46:38 <xelister> that happened in the Reverse Universe.
103 2010-11-30 04:46:53 <Kiba> xelister: you see mercenaries pushing back thugs in the blood dimaond war
104 2010-11-30 04:46:56 <Kiba> executive decision
105 2010-11-30 04:47:30 <Kiba> thugs that recruit child soldier, rape, plunder, etc
106 2010-11-30 04:47:45 <Kiba> the UN peacekeeper are a bunch of weakling that failed to protect anything
107 2010-11-30 04:49:16 <MT`AwAy> http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/29/wikileaks.must.have.weapons/?hpt=C1 <- soon the XM25 there too?
108 2010-11-30 04:52:03 <xelister> Kiba: guess who raped and killed children, and then their parents and family
109 2010-11-30 04:52:25 <xelister> hint: they still think the God blessed them
110 2010-11-30 04:52:49 <Kiba> if you have allegations, you better have ciation. Otherwise, don't waste my time.
111 2010-11-30 04:52:55 <xelister> hint2: no, not the Islam god, but "our" catholic God, that should be against any killings etc
112 2010-11-30 04:53:07 <Kiba> USA is protestiant...
113 2010-11-30 04:53:12 <Kiba> protestant*
114 2010-11-30 04:53:22 <Kiba> but that doesn't matter much, does it?
115 2010-11-30 04:53:37 <xelister> "The Mahmudiyah killings and gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops occurred on March 12, 2006, in a house to the southwest of Yusufiyah, a village to the west of the town of Al-Mahmudiyah, which is south of Baghdad, Iraq. Five United States Army soldiers of the 502nd Infantry Regiment were charged with the crimes"
116 2010-11-30 04:53:38 <Kiba> ethnic cleansing is still ethnic cleansing
117 2010-11-30 04:53:40 <xelister> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings
118 2010-11-30 04:54:46 <Kiba> some of the soldiers got sentenced to serious times
119 2010-11-30 04:54:52 <Kiba> it's an example of justice being doled out.
120 2010-11-30 04:55:04 <Kiba> On August 3, 2007, Private first class Spielman, 23, was sentenced by a court martial to 110 years in prison, with the possibility of parole after 10 years. He was convicted of rape, conspiracy to commit rape, housebreaking with intent to rape and four counts of felony murder
121 2010-11-30 04:55:14 <Kiba> 110 years, yeah as if he can live that long.
122 2010-11-30 04:55:24 <Kiba> he will rot in jail for the rest of his life
123 2010-11-30 04:55:34 <xelister> yeah, well, whetever god :) all  this protenstantism-catholic-etc could as well be same god in different names basically. Anyway, the "good God". How can people that start wars and are most militarized / war-loving nation in civilized world, claim *this* God blessed them?? I don't recall Jesus/etc shooting Rome soliders and his cators, didn't he like, took all the hits and so on ;)
124 2010-11-30 04:56:08 <Kiba> xelister: dude, these dudes are actually guilty of serious crimes
125 2010-11-30 04:56:25 <xelister> Kiba: other US solider, that raped a small girl in Japan, got 6 years. I bet you have see it to belive it (url) too?
126 2010-11-30 04:56:33 <xelister> 6 years
127 2010-11-30 04:56:49 <xelister> in USA he would get like 6,000 years (with current moral panic mode) for /lookin/ at a minor girl
128 2010-11-30 04:57:04 <MT`AwAy> xelister: which one?
129 2010-11-30 04:57:17 <MT`AwAy> there are many occurences of US army ppl raping little girls here
130 2010-11-30 04:57:49 <MT`AwAy> most are covered by the US army and/or japanese governement, and only make it to small local newspapers
131 2010-11-30 04:58:08 <xelister> for example "Last week, a 38-year-old Marine, Tyrone Hadnott, was arrested on suspicion of raping a 14-year-old girl on Okinawa, an incident that has rekindled memories of the 1995 rape of a 12-year-old girl on the island."
132 2010-11-30 04:58:10 <Kiba> xelister: you percevie somethign negative and blown it out of protion.
133 2010-11-30 04:58:26 <xelister> Kiba: well yea, he just raped her. Big deal
134 2010-11-30 04:58:27 <Kiba> proportion...
135 2010-11-30 04:58:54 <Kiba> WE MUST BE EVIL BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY COVER THE FUCKING CRIMES
136 2010-11-30 04:59:16 <xelister> on the other hand a couple in love gets charges with possible jail time for seeing eachother naked. and being charged as "sexual predators".
137 2010-11-30 04:59:24 <Kiba> there were massacre in Vietnam. You didn't think the media didn't know that?
138 2010-11-30 04:59:31 <xelister> obviously 1 is out of proportion and 2 is not.  or?
139 2010-11-30 04:59:50 <Kiba> xelister: and people actually cry out in the United States that THIS IS INSANE.
140 2010-11-30 05:00:02 <xelister> and yet this is still happening isn't it
141 2010-11-30 05:00:06 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: USA has lots of fun people
142 2010-11-30 05:00:08 <xelister> but wait it gets better
143 2010-11-30 05:00:22 <xelister> 1) it is fine in USA to molest and grope children
144 2010-11-30 05:00:31 <xelister> 2) it is horrible crime in USA to look and 17 year olds naked
145 2010-11-30 05:00:42 <xelister> 3) it is not so very bad to rape someone by USA citizen
146 2010-11-30 05:00:50 <xelister> Kiba: 3 we already know, now guess what is 1 and 2
147 2010-11-30 05:01:00 <Kiba> sensational coverage
148 2010-11-30 05:01:05 <xelister> and tell me how 1+2+3 != totall shizofrenia and get 25 BTC ;)
149 2010-11-30 05:01:40 <xelister> you got 2 minutes, since 1 is trivial
150 2010-11-30 05:01:57 <Kiba> you know about it, because the media in the states know about it.
151 2010-11-30 05:02:40 <Kiba> purtiantial parents. we're still working on that.
152 2010-11-30 05:02:45 <xelister> Kiba: last 60 seconds to guess when/where/how it is o.k. in USA to watch naked children and grope them... win 25 BTC
153 2010-11-30 05:03:03 <Kiba> where would it be? Huh?
154 2010-11-30 05:03:09 <xelister> 50
155 2010-11-30 05:03:35 <xelister> actually  there are at least 2 responses, but the 2nd one is being fixed (and this is actually good)
156 2010-11-30 05:03:56 <Kiba> sentenced to 90 years in prison....
157 2010-11-30 05:04:02 <Kiba> sentenced to 110 years in prison.
158 2010-11-30 05:04:22 <xelister> no, where it is ok to touch children and not get to any prison nor get any trouble ;)
159 2010-11-30 05:04:23 <Kiba> for the rape and killing of a girl and her family
160 2010-11-30 05:04:29 <xelister> time's up. MT`AwAy do you know?
161 2010-11-30 05:04:44 <Kiba> why don't you just tell us?
162 2010-11-30 05:04:52 <Kiba> you feel smug about telling Americans how evil they are?
163 2010-11-30 05:05:31 <xelister> no, I feel amazed how schizophrenically self-contradicting US laws and typical general behaviour can get
164 2010-11-30 05:06:43 <xelister> Kiba: http://www.anonymoushints.com/2010/11/18/tsa-molests-children/
165 2010-11-30 05:06:56 <Kiba> xelister: and you know this because Americans know it.
166 2010-11-30 05:07:24 <Kiba> well, at least those who flys
167 2010-11-30 05:07:26 <xelister> you mean the airport "security" stuff? or the war crimes stuff
168 2010-11-30 05:07:48 <Kiba> those who fly would care..but the majority of Americans...don't fly.
169 2010-11-30 05:07:59 <Kiba> well, I care, but I am an anarchist
170 2010-11-30 05:08:24 <Kiba> they'll learn.
171 2010-11-30 05:08:41 <Kiba> soon enough as "security" farce expand
172 2010-11-30 05:09:07 <Kiba> then, someday, a plane will blow up anyway.
173 2010-11-30 05:09:34 <Kiba> because the security aren't....actually real.
174 2010-11-30 05:09:43 <xelister> I bet 75% American population is too weak to stand up to own gov., and will become effectivly slave-class in many ways (although less obvious then in acient Egypt or Rome)
175 2010-11-30 05:10:12 <Kiba> what about the European?
176 2010-11-30 05:10:22 <xelister> it doesn't look good here as well
177 2010-11-30 05:10:39 <xelister> but so far the gov's are less paranoid and there is less crazy stuff like that
178 2010-11-30 05:10:42 <Kiba> well, 46 of US states are running a deficit
179 2010-11-30 05:10:45 <MT`AwAy> is there anywhere where things looks good? none as far as I know
180 2010-11-30 05:10:45 <xelister> it seems to spread from USA to EU soemhow
181 2010-11-30 05:10:47 <Kiba> the feds are running a deficit
182 2010-11-30 05:11:01 <Kiba> the whole slavery thing might as well be a m00t point.
183 2010-11-30 05:11:10 <Kiba> we're going to be worrying about hyperinflation
184 2010-11-30 05:11:33 <xelister> MT`AwAy: perhaps in arabic countries... lol what an irony. You get tons of chicks, everyone listens to you, drugs are legal etc
185 2010-11-30 05:11:46 <xelister> but seriously though, there are other totally crazy laws
186 2010-11-30 05:12:03 <Kiba> democracies tend to create laws
187 2010-11-30 05:12:06 <Kiba> that are crazy
188 2010-11-30 05:12:10 <xelister> yeah its sad, even in democracy people can't end up with socieity and laws that do not totally suck donkey's cock
189 2010-11-30 05:12:24 <xelister> at least so far people seem to failed at it
190 2010-11-30 05:12:29 <Kiba> in a democracy, everyone want to vote for themsleves money
191 2010-11-30 05:12:33 <Kiba> no fiscal discipline.
192 2010-11-30 05:12:52 <Kiba> let take the minority!!!1111
193 2010-11-30 05:13:10 <Kiba> sometime, it's the others way around..but government is essentially organized plunder
194 2010-11-30 05:15:42 <xelister> Kiba: btw, the security farce already is ludicrous
195 2010-11-30 05:16:48 <Kiba> xelister: well it didn't spread to the mall yet
196 2010-11-30 05:17:15 <Kiba> it's only the airports
197 2010-11-30 05:17:19 <Kiba> but malls are soft targets too
198 2010-11-30 05:17:26 <Kiba> you could probably bring a bomb in and explode it
199 2010-11-30 05:17:35 <Kiba> in a crowd of people
200 2010-11-30 05:18:00 <MT`AwAy> I think people should be checked at train stations too, especially at rush hours
201 2010-11-30 05:18:01 <Kiba> maybe, who knows?
202 2010-11-30 05:18:42 <Kiba> dogs that sniff for bombs instead of cocaine..
203 2010-11-30 05:18:55 <Kiba> maybe, actually cheaper than all the fancyscanner
204 2010-11-30 05:19:48 <xelister> heh lol... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/ian02302/TSAHitler.jpg
205 2010-11-30 05:20:03 <xelister> yeah it's primitve but funny imo
206 2010-11-30 05:20:08 <Kiba> man
207 2010-11-30 05:20:15 <Kiba> xelister got me into a waste of time
208 2010-11-30 05:20:30 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: if you don't want to waste time, don't be on irc :D
209 2010-11-30 05:20:32 <Kiba> have I learn anything substantial. Nothing much.
210 2010-11-30 05:20:45 <xelister> who knows, perhaps thinking about how your country is going to shit is actually less waste of time then watching 623th lolcat ;)
211 2010-11-30 05:22:01 <xelister> btw, I found the other articles I was looking for
212 2010-11-30 05:22:20 <xelister> 12-year-old schoolgirl was raped and left for dead by three U.S. serviceman on the southern island of Okinawa, reluctant home to the bulk of U.S. military facilities in Japan. That 1995 crime shook the half-century alliance, sparking huge anti-US rallies and cries of "never again." The pleas were ignored: Last year a 14-year-old was sexually assaulted by a U.S. Marine, one of several similar attacks on Japanese and Filipino women.
213 2010-11-30 05:22:57 <Kiba> seesh, what with the military men sexual assualt?
214 2010-11-30 05:24:06 <Kiba> as evil as people are, I won't get anything productive done
215 2010-11-30 05:24:21 <xelister> http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090303zg.html
216 2010-11-30 06:18:46 <joe_1> bitcoin price is plummeting - time to sell?
217 2010-11-30 06:29:53 <xelister> any idea what causes this drop?
218 2010-11-30 06:32:04 <joe_1> arbitration on mining
219 2010-11-30 06:35:31 <ne0futur> or time to buy
220 2010-11-30 06:38:51 <xelister> arbitration on mining? what you mean by that
221 2010-11-30 08:09:20 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
222 2010-11-30 08:09:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94680 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 71 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 9 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7999.17633605
223 2010-11-30 08:38:17 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
224 2010-11-30 08:38:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94682 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 69 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 52 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7993.95044195
225 2010-11-30 09:03:51 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
226 2010-11-30 09:03:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94687 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 64 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 9 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7999.37001890
227 2010-11-30 09:30:05 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
228 2010-11-30 09:30:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94692 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 59 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 25 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8010.38064632
229 2010-11-30 10:17:51 <altamic> does anybody know if one can build bitcoin with a boost version > 1.42 ?
230 2010-11-30 11:00:19 <manveru> altamic: 1.45 works
231 2010-11-30 11:45:11 <xelister> what you think are chances btx going backto 0.30 or more in next 1 month?
232 2010-11-30 11:51:34 <andrew12> huh?
233 2010-11-30 11:54:53 <xelister> andrew12: http://mtgox.com/  0.22 is the exchange rate. Do you think it will go up over 0.30 again soon?
234 2010-11-30 11:55:14 <andrew12> i dunno
235 2010-11-30 11:55:26 <andrew12> it really depends on the market :P
236 2010-11-30 11:57:22 <xelister> well, that is what I ment
237 2010-11-30 11:57:38 <xelister> :) does anyone know what happens to the value of BTC and so on
238 2010-11-30 11:58:04 <xelister> I can estimate speed of generation, kW/BTC and so on, but not sure about the actuall resulting USD/BTC economical value
239 2010-11-30 11:59:08 <MT`AwAy> xelister: the actual value depends on trust
240 2010-11-30 11:59:19 <MT`AwAy> if people trust into btc and keep/buy them, the price will increase
241 2010-11-30 11:59:31 <MT`AwAy> if people do not trust btc and sell it as soon as they can, price will fall
242 2010-11-30 11:59:36 <xelister> perhaps we should tell American's BTC's are god-blessed
243 2010-11-30 11:59:50 <xelister> s/'//
244 2010-11-30 12:00:00 <MT`AwAy> ask the pope to bless some btc and sell 'em
245 2010-11-30 12:00:17 <xelister> that actually makes sense
246 2010-11-30 12:00:34 <MT`AwAy> yes, blessing something that has no existence shouldn't be a problem
247 2010-11-30 12:01:47 <xelister> "BTC. Paying my altar server boys was never so easy! Best thing SS!" -- Pope Benedict XVI
248 2010-11-30 12:01:53 <MT`AwAy> anyway the only thing stronger than trust is faith
249 2010-11-30 12:02:02 <xelister> yeah and that too
250 2010-11-30 12:02:10 <xelister> >_>
251 2010-11-30 12:04:13 <MT`AwAy> faith is also stronger than truth
252 2010-11-30 12:27:59 <edcba> we don't have enough btc exchanges
253 2010-11-30 12:28:22 <edcba> it's hard to trust mtgox
254 2010-11-30 12:28:48 <lfm> I havnt had any trouble with mtgox
255 2010-11-30 12:29:05 <nelisky> edcba: why don't you trust mtgox?
256 2010-11-30 12:29:38 <nelisky> I've had a chance to chat through email with the owner a number of times, and he always walked the extra mile to help me
257 2010-11-30 12:30:10 <edcba> i just want to say that trusting only one entity is dangerous
258 2010-11-30 12:31:00 <lfm> so you either dont have any specific complaints or you just dont want to say what they are
259 2010-11-30 12:31:33 <nelisky> well, you are free to create another entity if you feel that's lacking
260 2010-11-30 12:31:34 <edcba> no i think mtgox does his best
261 2010-11-30 12:32:06 <nelisky> I'll help you out in any way I can, but there *are* other entities, mtgox just appears to have the best workflow
262 2010-11-30 12:32:11 <nelisky> thus all the volume
263 2010-11-30 12:32:19 <edcba> running some exchange is quite dangerous :)
264 2010-11-30 12:32:24 <MT`AwAy> :p
265 2010-11-30 12:32:41 <lfm> it shouldnt be dangerous if you do it right
266 2010-11-30 12:32:43 <MT`AwAy> I'm thinking of selling all the bitcoins I get from selling domains & vps in bitcoins
267 2010-11-30 12:32:51 <edcba> lfm: depends on your country
268 2010-11-30 12:33:59 <xelister> dengerous?
269 2010-11-30 12:34:09 <lfm> which country are you thinking of?
270 2010-11-30 12:34:24 <xelister> did USA started "war on virtual values" now? already done with war/iraq/etc?
271 2010-11-30 12:34:36 <edcba> some eu country
272 2010-11-30 12:35:13 <MT`AwAy> xelister: in most countries, stuff related to money is reglemented
273 2010-11-30 12:35:39 <edcba> egold had some problem with US already afaik
274 2010-11-30 12:35:41 <MT`AwAy> I can imagine mining BTC being assimilated to printing money by uncooperative countries
275 2010-11-30 12:36:02 <edcba> and if US hears that bitcoin is like egold and P2P together :)
276 2010-11-30 12:36:12 <edcba> that won't rejoice them
277 2010-11-30 12:36:29 <MT`AwAy> you'll have RIAA trying to stop bitcoins without even understanding it's not file sharing
278 2010-11-30 12:36:48 <edcba> a money that prevents devaluation by authorities
279 2010-11-30 12:37:04 <edcba> i doubt that US gov would like that
280 2010-11-30 12:37:17 <MT`AwAy> a money nobody can control, I doubt anyone currently in control would like that
281 2010-11-30 12:37:40 <lfm> so how is it different from say real gold
282 2010-11-30 12:37:43 <edcba> nobody is still better than some enemy
283 2010-11-30 12:37:51 <edcba> lfm: real gold doesn't matter
284 2010-11-30 12:37:58 <edcba> you don't pay oil with gold
285 2010-11-30 12:38:03 <lfm> real gold doesnt inflate
286 2010-11-30 12:38:11 <lfm> you can use it like currencie
287 2010-11-30 12:38:29 <xelister> BITCOIN oh noes
288 2010-11-30 12:38:32 <edcba> you'll never pay something on internet with real gold
289 2010-11-30 12:38:33 <xelister> its used by terrorists
290 2010-11-30 12:38:36 <lfm> you could buy oil with gold if you wanted
291 2010-11-30 12:38:38 <xelister> and pedophiles
292 2010-11-30 12:38:50 <xelister> and other people that are against TSA patdowns of children ... DAMN COMMUNISTS
293 2010-11-30 12:38:58 <MT`AwAy> [22:38:13] <lfm> you can use it like currencie <- they did that before, but then they saw real gold wasn't easy to control
294 2010-11-30 12:39:14 <lfm> I bet lots of people would accept gold on internet. just try it on ebay or something
295 2010-11-30 12:39:39 <MT`AwAy> trade of gold is reglemented in many countries
296 2010-11-30 12:39:48 <MT`AwAy> and selling gold without declaring it is then illegal there
297 2010-11-30 12:39:52 <edcba> i doubt ebay let me pay with gold
298 2010-11-30 12:40:00 <lfm> there are those gold jewelry places will give you dollars for gold
299 2010-11-30 12:40:12 <xelister> btw, can nodes see that transactions are doing to the same receiver X if X is using new bitcoin address for each transaction?
300 2010-11-30 12:40:18 <MT`AwAy> lfm: they usually require an ID and will declare sales/buys
301 2010-11-30 12:40:22 <xelister> assuming the IP was hidden in example by tor
302 2010-11-30 12:40:29 <lfm> ecba not up to ebay, its up to the people selling on ebay
303 2010-11-30 12:40:35 <MT`AwAy> xelister: shouldn't
304 2010-11-30 12:40:50 <xelister> how well tor hides now?
305 2010-11-30 12:41:00 <edcba> how ebay will earn its fee ?
306 2010-11-30 12:41:01 <MT`AwAy> xelister: even without hiding the ip, bitcoins makes it difficult to know that the peer transmitting you a transaction is actually the author
307 2010-11-30 12:41:15 <MT`AwAy> ie. using tor or not makes no difference
308 2010-11-30 12:41:32 <lfm> MT`AwAy, thats irrelevant, it is like money. if you try to spend more than 10,000 $ cash there are many places will demand ID too
309 2010-11-30 12:41:33 <edcba> tor makes it more certain
310 2010-11-30 12:41:51 <MT`AwAy> lfm: I don't know about US, but in France and Japan they fill declarations with the ID details
311 2010-11-30 12:42:11 <lfm> MT`AwAy, so? it is still money
312 2010-11-30 12:43:17 <MT`AwAy> lfm: with gold you get the part "what you own has a real value" but not the part "you're free to use your money without having someone spying on you"
313 2010-11-30 12:43:35 <MT`AwAy> while bitcoin allows both (well, the first part remains to be seen I guess)
314 2010-11-30 12:43:57 <lfm> you are never "free to use your money without spying". Even cash has serial numbers they can track
315 2010-11-30 12:44:08 <MT`AwAy> that's why I didn't mention cash
316 2010-11-30 12:44:10 <MT`AwAy> but bitcoin
317 2010-11-30 12:44:27 <lfm> ok so then bitcoin isnt money
318 2010-11-30 12:44:40 <MT`AwAy> (cash has some degree of liberty, however it has only a value because your country backs it)
319 2010-11-30 12:45:32 <lfm> any money only has value cuz someone "backs" it. bitcoin is a bit odd cuz the "backing" is distibuted instead of centralized is all
320 2010-11-30 12:46:02 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin is only backed by individuals willing to buy some
321 2010-11-30 12:46:26 <MT`AwAy> anyway a lot of people (governements?) would have really good reasons to try to kill bitcoins, and if I were them I'd do it before the network gets too big and too stable
322 2010-11-30 12:47:00 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
323 2010-11-30 12:47:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94722 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 29 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 hours, 7 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8037.91993711
324 2010-11-30 12:47:32 <lfm> ya well the US gov tried to ban its people from trading in gold for a while too but gave up. I dont think they will care about bitcoin except to try to track down drug dealers and terrorist who use it
325 2010-11-30 12:48:01 <MT`AwAy> lfm: don't forget tax evasion
326 2010-11-30 12:48:16 <lfm> ya maybe that too
327 2010-11-30 12:48:39 <lfm> tracking down abusers is different from banning the whole system tho
328 2010-11-30 12:48:51 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin makes tracking virtually impossible
329 2010-11-30 12:49:05 <lfm> well thats debatable
330 2010-11-30 12:49:29 <MT`AwAy> that could be compared to tracking whoever is behind wikileaks instead of tracking whoever leaked stuff
331 2010-11-30 12:49:53 <lfm> I think its more comparable to tracking serial numbers on cash
332 2010-11-30 12:50:42 <MT`AwAy> tracking serial numbers on cash is useful only when large amounts of cash are moved around, small amounts can be spent at merchants and can change hands a lot of times before reaching a bank
333 2010-11-30 12:52:00 <lfm> sounds similar to bitcoin. you may have trouble tracking many individual transaction but if someone tries to use it a lot they will probably be much easier to track
334 2010-11-30 12:53:19 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin transactions are made hard to track by the fact each individual has many addresses, and can still be made harder to track
335 2010-11-30 12:53:46 <lfm> MT`AwAy, cash has LOTS of diffent serial numbers so its similar
336 2010-11-30 12:54:25 <MT`AwAy> lfm: the difference is the fact a serial number will not change on cash, you can do bitcoin laundering easily
337 2010-11-30 12:54:48 <MT`AwAy> for example send bitcoins on mtgox or any site providing similar facility, then withdraw it (it will almost always be withdrawn from a different address)
338 2010-11-30 12:54:59 <lfm> MT`AwAy, I dont think btc laundering is easy
339 2010-11-30 12:55:09 <MT`AwAy> unless you ask mtgox (and supposing such records are kept) you cannot link the original transaction with the new one
340 2010-11-30 12:55:37 <MT`AwAy> lfm: btc laundering is made easy by all those sites that allows putting & withdrawing bitcoins
341 2010-11-30 12:55:48 <altamic> I am trying to compile bt 3.17 on a snow leopard. I get this mess: http://pastie.org/1335285
342 2010-11-30 12:55:53 <lfm> mtgox has records of people how use it. I suspect mtgox might be suseptible to supeonas of records
343 2010-11-30 12:56:07 <MT`AwAy> lfm: there's not only mtgox
344 2010-11-30 12:56:26 <MT`AwAy> since there is no fee, you can use as many services as you want
345 2010-11-30 12:56:45 <MT`AwAy> anyway the first difficulty is to know that the funds were received by mtgox
346 2010-11-30 12:57:09 <lfm> yup, of course theres alots. the thing is if you ever want to actuallspend the value you have in BTC you are vunerable to getting tracked down
347 2010-11-30 12:57:12 <MT`AwAy> and unless you subpena every such service, you cannot be 100% sure funds didn't get to one of those
348 2010-11-30 12:57:34 <MT`AwAy> [22:57:10] <lfm> yup, of course theres alots. the thing is if you ever want to actuallspend the value you have in BTC you are vunerable to getting tracked down <- I wouldn't believe so
349 2010-11-30 12:58:47 <MT`AwAy> you receive amount X, you distribute it in X1 X2 X3 ... X99, charge at various providers, withdraw smaller amounts on random addresses (all through api), then you convert the various different amount to whatever you want, bits per bits
350 2010-11-30 12:59:10 <MT`AwAy> repeat the provider use part as many times as needed
351 2010-11-30 13:00:06 <lfm> you can tell what BTC addresses got the funds. if any are  known address at all you can start tracking. its hard to control where it will go after you give it to someone who may or may not be as carefull as you and then they can point back to you
352 2010-11-30 13:00:43 <MT`AwAy> lfm: mtgox will generate a new address each time you want to add bitcoins
353 2010-11-30 13:01:01 <MT`AwAy> and funds will stay there until someone else withdraw funds and mtgox's bitcoin client decide to take funds from there
354 2010-11-30 13:01:32 <MT`AwAy> also you can make tracking harder by including many transactions to yourself with many different bitcoin addresses
355 2010-11-30 13:01:52 <MT`AwAy> anyway, bitcoin laundering is easy, mainly because it's the main focus of bitcoin
356 2010-11-30 13:02:01 <lfm> ya, and you dont know who mtgox migh send those coint too. if they are trackable they can point back to mtgox and mtgox can track the coins back to where they got em
357 2010-11-30 13:02:33 <MT`AwAy> lfm: you won't know it got to mtgox until you subponea mtgox, however you have no proof it got to mtgox
358 2010-11-30 13:03:01 <MT`AwAy> can you subponea every single entity accepting bitcoins and allowing bitcoin withdrawals without any indication on which one(s) was used?
359 2010-11-30 13:03:05 <lfm> MT`AwAy, huh? the BTC chain is public
360 2010-11-30 13:03:19 <MT`AwAy> yes, but you don't know that address X is owned by mtgox, for example
361 2010-11-30 13:03:22 <lfm> you only need one link, not all of them
362 2010-11-30 13:03:37 <MT`AwAy> you want to add funds to mtgox, mtgox gives you an unique address only for this purpose
363 2010-11-30 13:03:50 <lfm> if mtgox pays someone from that address then it was his
364 2010-11-30 13:03:51 <MT`AwAy> later, mtgox may use this very address to pay someone totally unrelated
365 2010-11-30 13:04:18 <MT`AwAy> chances of getting back the exact same funds from mtgox are really low
366 2010-11-30 13:04:28 <lfm> MT`AwAy, and he has record of where that transaction came from
367 2010-11-30 13:04:43 <MT`AwAy> lfm: the chain doesn't show that address X was owned by mtgox
368 2010-11-30 13:05:00 <MT`AwAy> it only show that funds went in there, then were sent to someone else
369 2010-11-30 13:05:05 <lfm> not till you find someone who got coins from that chain
370 2010-11-30 13:05:06 <MT`AwAy> then this someone else will have used the funds somewhere else
371 2010-11-30 13:05:13 <MT`AwAy> it may take a while
372 2010-11-30 13:05:24 <lfm> so you admit it is possible
373 2010-11-30 13:05:38 <MT`AwAy> and once you have found the final recepient (which is very unlikely)
374 2010-11-30 13:05:43 <MT`AwAy> you have to rewind the whole chain
375 2010-11-30 13:05:50 <MT`AwAy> because the payment was forked on many occasions
376 2010-11-30 13:06:18 <lfm> yup, it may not be easy or cheap. you need good excuses for speopnas and stuff
377 2010-11-30 13:06:27 <MT`AwAy> and by that time, mtgox or whoever got the coins might have throwed away the logs
378 2010-11-30 13:06:31 <MT`AwAy> because it's been 10 or 20 years
379 2010-11-30 13:06:48 <lfm> feh, days or months. not that long
380 2010-11-30 13:07:11 <MT`AwAy> depends on your organisation
381 2010-11-30 13:07:39 <lfm> we were talking about tax evaders for instance. so its a gov with lots of resources
382 2010-11-30 13:07:43 <MT`AwAy> with cash, at some point cash is returned to a bank, so you know who returned them, which means whoever wants to track bitcoins will need a place where people will definitly put their bitcoins
383 2010-11-30 13:08:27 <lfm> lots of addresses are public, you just have to get one of them in the chain to start tracing back or forward
384 2010-11-30 13:08:34 <MT`AwAy> :D
385 2010-11-30 13:08:36 <MT`AwAy> not that easy
386 2010-11-30 13:08:49 <MT`AwAy> receiver who makes their address public usually not know who are sending them money
387 2010-11-30 13:09:05 <lfm> not easy to control once the btc are out of your hands either
388 2010-11-30 13:09:06 <MT`AwAy> you can only track by private addresses generated uniquely for a transaction or an account
389 2010-11-30 13:09:52 <MT`AwAy> let's say I give 5% of the funds I'm laundering to the EFF, you know the address is owned by EFF, but even if you ask them, they won't know who sent them the coins
390 2010-11-30 13:10:42 <lfm> if you give away all your btc then ya, you will be hard to track but you dont get any profit that way so you dont gain.
391 2010-11-30 13:11:02 <MT`AwAy> only way is to operate a bitcoin business, for example. You receive tracked funds, you ask whoever paid you where he got those funds, he tells "from mtgox" and then you subponea mtgox to see who gave mtgox those funds
392 2010-11-30 13:11:26 <lfm> if you buy something or try to convert to other curency you become trackab;le again
393 2010-11-30 13:12:15 <MT`AwAy> then you see it came from privacyshark, in kenya, then you subponea privacyshark by using international agreements to ask who used those coins...
394 2010-11-30 13:12:41 <MT`AwAy> lfm: except nobody will know it's really "you" or not without tracking every previous transaction
395 2010-11-30 13:12:45 <OneFixt> ;;bc,estimate
396 2010-11-30 13:12:46 <gribble> 8050.69666830
397 2010-11-30 13:13:03 <MT`AwAy> so you'll know you're being tracked before they know they are tracking you
398 2010-11-30 13:13:08 <lfm> liek serial numbers on cash, if you throw all the money out the window of your car on the freeway you might not be trackable. if you spend it at a store or try to bank it you can be tracked
399 2010-11-30 13:13:51 <lfm> you wont know if they supeona mtgox records
400 2010-11-30 13:14:02 <MT`AwAy> lfm: if you spend it at a store you won't be tracked, especially if the bills are then given to another customer as change (that's why gangsters usually request small cuts)
401 2010-11-30 13:14:12 <MT`AwAy> lfm: they'll have to subpeona you too
402 2010-11-30 13:14:23 <MT`AwAy> they'll have to subpeona every single piece of the chain
403 2010-11-30 13:14:36 <MT`AwAy> until they reach their initial transaction
404 2010-11-30 13:14:57 <lfm> the store deposits theiur moeny in a bank, the bank reports the store. the store maybe have video cammeras showing who was there that day
405 2010-11-30 13:15:02 <MT`AwAy> also since many such providers are in many different countries, it will take time
406 2010-11-30 13:15:22 <MT`AwAy> lfm: that's assuming the store kept the bill and didn't use it to give change to another customer
407 2010-11-30 13:15:29 <MT`AwAy> who then used it in another store in another state
408 2010-11-30 13:15:35 <MT`AwAy> which then gave it to its bank
409 2010-11-30 13:16:25 <lfm> crossing borders can help blurr thew trail. it cant provide perfect hiding tho either. countries do cooperate on crimes and tracking criminals, even tax evaders sometimes
410 2010-11-30 13:17:00 <MT`AwAy> lfm: crossing borders will slow down the time required to track a given transaction
411 2010-11-30 13:17:37 <lfm> MT`AwAy, you cant control what the store does with it tho. it might pass it on or it might bank it. its not up to you
412 2010-11-30 13:17:57 <MT`AwAy> lfm: that's why you use bitcoins, where you can move stuff easily again and again
413 2010-11-30 13:18:05 <MT`AwAy> and use in stores anonymously
414 2010-11-30 13:18:26 <bencoder> Has anyone built a betting exchange yet? I guess the hard part is settlement
415 2010-11-30 13:18:29 <MT`AwAy> (ie, create a random mtgox account via tor or whatever proxy you like, put funds, then withdraw somewhere else, repeat for 1 month or so)
416 2010-11-30 13:18:35 <lfm> yes crossing borders  wil probably slow them down. thats like admitting it is possible again
417 2010-11-30 13:18:58 <MT`AwAy> lfm: crossing borders with bitcoins is easy, and only takes 6 confirmations
418 2010-11-30 13:19:26 <MT`AwAy> anyway the fact is here: bitcoins facilitates money laundering & tax evasion
419 2010-11-30 13:19:29 <lfm> MT`AwAy, ya, you can make the chain as long as you like. it doesnt take long to follow such chain thou
420 2010-11-30 13:19:49 <MT`AwAy> lfm: per experience it can take up to 2 years for a given country to take action
421 2010-11-30 13:19:50 <lfm> so does cash
422 2010-11-30 13:20:22 <MT`AwAy> (my experience was with online child pornography, the requesting country was USA, and receiving country was France)
423 2010-11-30 13:21:41 <lfm> ya ok, it can take a long time in some cases,
424 2010-11-30 13:22:00 <MT`AwAy> child pornography isn't exactly the kind of case you put on for later
425 2010-11-30 13:23:28 <lfm> from what Iv heard they are burried in child porn cases tho, that may be part of the reason. also tracking internet users is still pretty new for many p[olice groups, they are still new at it and learning how
426 2010-11-30 13:24:00 <MT`AwAy> there's child pornography, and there are sites providing openly child pornography
427 2010-11-30 13:25:59 <MT`AwAy> (and tracking the guy was easy, but it took so long the guy wasn't there anymore)
428 2010-11-30 13:26:15 <lfm> and I can see that tracking tax evaders might not be hi priority for many police either
429 2010-11-30 13:26:24 <MT`AwAy> anyway, if tracking child pornography is new to polices worldwide, what about tracking bitcoins
430 2010-11-30 13:27:28 <bonsaikitten> hmm, police in germany is actively not acting so they can claim they need more better powers
431 2010-11-30 13:27:29 <lfm> Im just saying I dont think you can rely on BTC not tracking you if you really need to stay out of jail or somehing
432 2010-11-30 13:27:46 <bonsaikitten> that's why some random people managed to do more in one afternoon than all of the police in a year
433 2010-11-30 13:28:22 <lfm> bonsaikitten, ya, I can see that happening too
434 2010-11-30 13:29:20 <lfm> they want millions to set up task forces and hire people too
435 2010-11-30 13:29:46 <MT`AwAy> well, here it took almost 2 years for me to receive a police convocation because I was hosting a website containing child pornography. I provided them with logs & informations about the payment method used by whoever created the site, took them 3 more years to match the credit card to a bank account
436 2010-11-30 13:31:08 <lfm> I don't think I would trust tham to be that slow every time and every case. If they really want you I think they can move pretty quick
437 2010-11-30 13:31:39 <MT`AwAy> lfm: international matters can be rather slow, especially when countries such as china, kenya, etc.. are involved
438 2010-11-30 13:32:05 <lfm> like I said about the cild porn example, they are overloaded with cases.
439 2010-11-30 13:32:32 <MT`AwAy> also the chain is easy to break, what once mtgox says "we got the money from this guy", and "this guy" does not exists?
440 2010-11-30 13:33:17 <lfm> well ya all mtgox may have is an email address but its just another link in a chain
441 2010-11-30 13:33:24 <MT`AwAy> ip is a tor exit node, email was created only for the purpose of registering on mtgox
442 2010-11-30 13:33:49 <MT`AwAy> unless you can ask whoever deposited this money on mtgox where he got it from, you won't know
443 2010-11-30 13:34:18 <MT`AwAy> and unless you know who did it, you cannot ask the next guy/company where he got it from
444 2010-11-30 13:34:39 <lfm> Just saying its not foolproof. there are a lot of ways to track btc too
445 2010-11-30 13:35:22 <MT`AwAy> btc by itself is not too hard to track, what makes it hard to track are services allowing to put btc in and which then withdraws from different addresses
446 2010-11-30 13:35:53 <MT`AwAy> anyone understanding that can provide bitcoins laundering services
447 2010-11-30 13:35:58 <lfm> depends if they keep records or not really
448 2010-11-30 13:36:03 <MT`AwAy> and it can be made 100% automatically
449 2010-11-30 13:36:17 <MT`AwAy> even if mtgox keeps records, it won't help
450 2010-11-30 13:36:36 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
451 2010-11-30 13:36:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94730 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 21 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 59 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8046.45837197
452 2010-11-30 13:37:39 <lfm> difficulty growth  has slowed. I thot it would be up to 10k by this one
453 2010-11-30 13:43:50 <MT`AwAy> only solution would be preemptive subpeona on every single bitcoin trader (which are the bitcoin equivalent of banks)
454 2010-11-30 14:10:59 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
455 2010-11-30 14:11:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94733 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 18 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8045.90063694
456 2010-11-30 14:33:53 <davex__> big selloff today, looks like.
457 2010-11-30 14:41:17 <altamic> any c++ coder here?
458 2010-11-30 14:42:24 <davex__> why?
459 2010-11-30 14:42:59 <altamic> I am not able to solve a problem possibly related to wxString casts
460 2010-11-30 14:43:04 <altamic> GetTextFromUserDialogBase
461 2010-11-30 14:43:10 <altamic> http://pastie.org/1335285
462 2010-11-30 14:43:30 <altamic> the problem prevents a build on osx
463 2010-11-30 14:44:06 <altamic> I don't know if I need to add another constructor
464 2010-11-30 14:45:31 <altamic> seems that the code need std::string foo="asd"; wxString bar(foo);  to work
465 2010-11-30 14:45:39 <altamic> needs
466 2010-11-30 14:45:53 <altamic> how to proceed?
467 2010-11-30 14:49:00 <altamic> possibly I should modify the constructor
468 2010-11-30 14:49:15 <altamic> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/blob/master/ui.h#L291
469 2010-11-30 14:49:26 <altamic> not sure how BTW
470 2010-11-30 14:56:28 <xelister> altamic: yeah wxString usage in bitcoind is strange
471 2010-11-30 14:56:39 <altamic> wxString wxStrCaption(strCaption.c_str(), wxConvUTF8);
472 2010-11-30 14:56:49 <xelister> altamic: ask #wxwidgets
473 2010-11-30 14:57:59 <altamic> I am already there
474 2010-11-30 14:58:29 <xelister> lol what
475 2010-11-30 14:58:39 <xelister> polish anti-tank weapon named "FAGOT"
476 2010-11-30 14:58:48 <xelister> good job comming up with that name... wtf
477 2010-11-30 15:00:46 <davex__> i would either change the base class to take std::strings in its constructor, or change the derived class to take wxString
478 2010-11-30 15:00:53 <davex__> don't know why he was inconsistent
479 2010-11-30 15:01:59 <altamic> please capitalize He :)
480 2010-11-30 15:04:04 <altamic> my aim is simply to pass the compiler
481 2010-11-30 15:06:07 <davex__> or you could dynamic_cast them to wxString in that constructor on line 291
482 2010-11-30 15:06:11 <davex__> i think
483 2010-11-30 15:07:16 <xelister> that sounds bad
484 2010-11-30 15:07:18 <xelister> dynamic cast
485 2010-11-30 15:07:29 <xelister> wxwidets has howto on various conversions from/to wxString
486 2010-11-30 15:07:33 <xelister> goole it
487 2010-11-30 15:08:36 <davex__> yeah they probably aren't really wxStrings getting passed in.
488 2010-11-30 15:08:56 <altamic> davex_ can you provide the code for dyn cast
489 2010-11-30 15:08:59 <altamic> ?
490 2010-11-30 15:09:20 <davex__> i'd say nm that, prob. won't work
491 2010-11-30 15:11:09 <altamic> so linus is always right
492 2010-11-30 15:27:09 <xelister> Block 1 found on Cypress at 9:42:05 AM
493 2010-11-30 15:27:11 <xelister> Block 2 found on Cypress at 12:59:22 PM
494 2010-11-30 15:27:12 <xelister> Block 3 found on Cypress at 2:53:04 PM
495 2010-11-30 15:27:14 <xelister> Block 4 found on Cypress at 4:31:23 PM
496 2010-11-30 15:27:15 <xelister> Diablo-D3: you go girl o/
497 2010-11-30 15:27:17 <altamic> nice
498 2010-11-30 15:27:29 <altamic> great xelister
499 2010-11-30 15:28:19 <altamic> haha
500 2010-11-30 15:28:59 <altamic> I've changed the ctor now I get http://pastie.org/1335659
501 2010-11-30 15:29:31 <xelister> Diablo-D3: btw -w 64  resolved the laggy desktop (linux, sdk2.1, driver between 10.9 and 10.10 ubuntu 64bit) not it works awesomly even with -f 300 and around (getting a bit sub-optimal speed, but meh)
502 2010-11-30 15:29:41 <xelister> *now it works
503 2010-11-30 15:31:36 <brocktice> OVER 8000
504 2010-11-30 15:31:40 <brocktice> ;;bc,stats
505 2010-11-30 15:31:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94751 | Current Difficulty: 6866.89864897 | Next Difficulty At Block: 94751 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8078.19525792
506 2010-11-30 15:41:27 <xelister> it's almost OVER 9000 :o
507 2010-11-30 15:41:48 <xelister> ArtForz: can you go on a vacation and/or join foldin@home ;)
508 2010-11-30 15:42:13 <xelister> in 0 blocks?
509 2010-11-30 15:42:24 <nanotube> bc,diff
510 2010-11-30 15:42:24 <xelister> oh crap, we already have 8000
511 2010-11-30 15:42:26 <gribble> 8078.19525793
512 2010-11-30 15:42:26 <nanotube> ;;bc,diff
513 2010-11-30 15:42:31 <nanotube> yea, we're already there
514 2010-11-30 15:44:45 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
515 2010-11-30 15:44:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94754 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 2013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 11 hours, 52 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32312.90258509
516 2010-11-30 15:45:01 <nanotube> haha that's quite an estimate there. :)
517 2010-11-30 15:45:20 <nanotube> gotta wait a hundred blocks or so for it to stabilize
518 2010-11-30 15:47:06 <MT`AwAy> xD
519 2010-11-30 15:47:20 <MT`AwAy> if it's really going over 32k we might see some people stopping their gpu
520 2010-11-30 15:50:16 <altamic> I am getting some help from DavidGH from #wxWidgets channel but I am short of btc to handle him
521 2010-11-30 15:50:42 <MT`AwAy> ?
522 2010-11-30 16:13:09 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
523 2010-11-30 16:13:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94755 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 2012 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 9338.95588302
524 2010-11-30 16:13:27 <xelister> thats more like it
525 2010-11-30 16:15:29 <brocktice> OVER 9000
526 2010-11-30 16:18:51 <xelister> Radeon??? Oil heaters. Now with free electrical blanket.
527 2010-11-30 16:19:27 <xelister> Lost money on Mtgox? Homeless? No problem! Exchange 5970 for 2 burning cans. 50% of for your homies on next deal
528 2010-11-30 16:20:28 <MT`AwAy> anyone tried to compute around which difficulty it'll become more expensive to produce bitcoins based on average price of kW in USA ?
529 2010-11-30 16:20:49 <xelister> well I started
530 2010-11-30 16:21:12 <xelister> 5770 -> 15 coins in month
531 2010-11-30 16:21:27 <xelister> no, wait
532 2010-11-30 16:21:28 <brocktice> MT`AwAy: It's already around even for nvidia cards
533 2010-11-30 16:21:33 <brocktice> ati cards have a ways to go yet
534 2010-11-30 16:21:40 <brocktice> depends on price of btcs too
535 2010-11-30 16:21:50 <MT`AwAy> :D
536 2010-11-30 16:21:57 <xelister> 5970 -> 40 coins/mo, at cost of 350Wh *24*30
537 2010-11-30 16:21:59 <MT`AwAy> let's take 0.4 so we'll be somewhat future proof
538 2010-11-30 16:22:26 <xelister> 40 coins - 250 KWh
539 2010-11-30 16:22:31 <MT`AwAy> (no idea what the future will be like)
540 2010-11-30 16:22:51 <xelister> *blocks
541 2010-11-30 16:22:54 <xelister> 40 blocks = 100 USD electricity
542 2010-11-30 16:23:03 <brocktice> at what price?
543 2010-11-30 16:23:07 <MT`AwAy> 2000 coins
544 2010-11-30 16:23:19 <xelister> 2000 coins = 100 USD
545 2010-11-30 16:23:30 <xelister> minimal reasonable rate is 0.05 BTC therefore currently
546 2010-11-30 16:24:02 <xelister> take into account you need tons of expensive hardware, time and admin/programming skills too
547 2010-11-30 16:24:09 <xelister> and profit margin
548 2010-11-30 16:24:30 <MT`AwAy> programming skills can be offsetted by forum/"help me I'm noob but I just bought 4000$ of hardware" skills
549 2010-11-30 16:24:45 <xelister> MT`AwAy: to limited extend - then you use more of time
550 2010-11-30 16:24:51 <xelister> 750-1000 USD for card, time, upgrade to PSU/mainboard etc
551 2010-11-30 16:25:01 <MT`AwAy> :)
552 2010-11-30 16:25:14 <xelister> 4000 coins = 900 USD (for 2 months, later diff will be too big)
553 2010-11-30 16:25:28 <xelister> which gives 0.22
554 2010-11-30 16:25:54 <xelister> actually.. over 2 mo diff will already rise.. so like 3000 coins..
555 2010-11-30 16:25:56 <xelister> 0.30
556 2010-11-30 16:26:36 <xelister> imho 1 BTC = 0.30 USD  based on mining costs. Perhaps 0.25 USD since some people can have access to free (already have it) hardware or parts of it and/or to 'free' electrical power..
557 2010-11-30 16:26:39 <MT`AwAy> "diff will rise" is an assumption based on the fact more people should in theory join the race  for bitcoins
558 2010-11-30 16:26:57 <xelister> makes sense? gives 0.25 - 0.30 USD price range, as seen on market btw
559 2010-11-30 16:27:08 <MT`AwAy> :)
560 2010-11-30 16:27:11 <xelister> MT`AwAy: here I assumed a moderate/small rise
561 2010-11-30 16:27:21 <MT`AwAy> good thing, means maybe bitcoins will get more expensive with time
562 2010-11-30 16:27:29 <xelister> on the other hand the hardware can be sold again, so you pay just the difference in price, so like 50% of hw price
563 2010-11-30 16:27:45 <xelister> then again selling hw takes more time/skill/fucking around
564 2010-11-30 16:27:46 <brocktice> If you amortize the hardware over a year the price can be much lower
565 2010-11-30 16:28:00 <brocktice> normal biz practice would probably be more like 3 years unless you take a section 179 in the US or whatever it's claled
566 2010-11-30 16:28:04 <brocktice> *called
567 2010-11-30 16:28:28 <MT`AwAy> well, you can't really make plans on bitcoins for more than a few months for now
568 2010-11-30 16:28:35 <xelister> yea
569 2010-11-30 16:28:55 <MT`AwAy> unless you like gambling
570 2010-11-30 16:44:37 <xelister> #wikileaks - lets ask them no accept btc :)
571 2010-11-30 16:45:37 <MT`AwAy> xelister: be my guest
572 2010-11-30 16:45:40 <MT`AwAy> I'll be watching from here
573 2010-11-30 16:46:17 <altamic> xelister: I don't think it would be wise, now
574 2010-11-30 16:47:11 <nanotube> <altamic> I am getting some help from DavidGH from #wxWidgets channel but I am short of btc to handle him
575 2010-11-30 16:47:16 <nanotube> altamic: --^ what do you mean?
576 2010-11-30 16:48:31 <xelister> altamic: wtf why not
577 2010-11-30 16:48:55 <altamic> simply that I would like to offer some btc to him since I am grateful for his help
578 2010-11-30 16:49:05 <altamic> but unfortunately my wallet is quite empty
579 2010-11-30 16:49:39 <altamic> the problem is that skillful C++ coders are hard to find
580 2010-11-30 16:49:47 <altamic> they're all @ google :)
581 2010-11-30 16:49:47 <xelister> altamic: http://mtgox.com/
582 2010-11-30 17:10:32 <nanotube> altamic: i can sell you some btc on #bitcoin-otc if you like
583 2010-11-30 17:12:03 <altamic> thank you nanotube
584 2010-11-30 17:13:48 <brocktice> and many of the more sophisticated uses of C++ are well over my head
585 2010-11-30 17:13:54 <brocktice> altamic: what are you working on?
586 2010-11-30 17:14:24 <altamic> I am trying to make the osx build happen
587 2010-11-30 17:14:50 <altamic> 0.3.17
588 2010-11-30 17:15:10 <brocktice> you need c++ programming skills for that?
589 2010-11-30 17:15:28 <altamic> there is some code to change
590 2010-11-30 17:15:31 <brocktice> ah
591 2010-11-30 17:15:33 <altamic> to satisfy wx
592 2010-11-30 17:17:05 <Kiba> brocktice: did ya vote in the BMAA on my proposal?
593 2010-11-30 17:17:14 <brocktice> Kiba: let me look, I think I did
594 2010-11-30 17:17:33 <Kiba> hmm, we need to raise money for hosting too...
595 2010-11-30 17:17:59 <brocktice> oh
596 2010-11-30 17:18:02 <brocktice> well, I can host for free
597 2010-11-30 17:18:23 <brocktice> whatI guess I don't understand it
598 2010-11-30 17:19:39 <Kiba> you don't understand?
599 2010-11-30 17:19:50 <Kiba> well, I want to automate the tracking of members for discount
600 2010-11-30 17:19:51 <Diablo-D3> you know whats funny?
601 2010-11-30 17:19:52 <brocktice> What's the bounty for?
602 2010-11-30 17:20:07 <Kiba> brocktice: to pay a programmer to code up a site
603 2010-11-30 17:20:29 <Diablo-D3> if you sample a 2D image, you get samples that have, effectively, two useful points
604 2010-11-30 17:20:32 <brocktice> Kiba: I am not going to vote for it
605 2010-11-30 17:20:34 <Kiba> I am  busy with other projects after all.. who will do it?
606 2010-11-30 17:20:40 <brocktice> Kiba: I think it's a low priority
607 2010-11-30 17:20:40 <Kiba> brocktice: why?
608 2010-11-30 17:20:46 <Diablo-D3> if you sample a 3D surface, you get a triangle.
609 2010-11-30 17:20:46 <Kiba> low priority?
610 2010-11-30 17:21:03 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, what proposal? :o (url?)
611 2010-11-30 17:22:46 <MT`AwAy> nevermind, found it
612 2010-11-30 17:26:11 <xelister> altamic: #wxwidets didnt help?
613 2010-11-30 17:26:26 <altamic> the problem is me
614 2010-11-30 17:26:49 <xelister> instant  meme
615 2010-11-30 17:32:04 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, I'm joining your group :p
616 2010-11-30 17:32:09 <davex__> altamic, did you try
617 2010-11-30 17:32:11 <davex__> const string& strValue2="") : CGetTextFromUserDialogBase(parent, wxID_ANY, wxString(strCaption.c_str()))
618 2010-11-30 17:32:26 <Kiba> we only provide one benefit...
619 2010-11-30 17:32:32 <Kiba> discounts from business members..
620 2010-11-30 17:33:00 <Kiba> but it's a group in early...stage of development so..
621 2010-11-30 17:34:19 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, I have a business
622 2010-11-30 17:34:23 <MT`AwAy> I can provide discounts
623 2010-11-30 17:35:13 <MT`AwAy> that counts? :p
624 2010-11-30 17:35:38 <altamic> davex_ : http://pastie.org/1336000
625 2010-11-30 17:36:46 <Kiba> in bitcoin?
626 2010-11-30 17:36:55 <MT`AwAy> Kiba, yup
627 2010-11-30 17:36:56 <davex__> altamic, different problem now?
628 2010-11-30 17:39:29 <davex__> altamic, http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/12443
629 2010-11-30 17:40:28 <xelister> lol wha??
630 2010-11-30 17:40:49 <xelister> apparently I told my gf to use bitcoin mining
631 2010-11-30 17:40:56 <xelister> while I was asleep..
632 2010-11-30 17:41:16 <brocktice> bwhahahaha
633 2010-11-30 17:41:37 <MT`AwAy> xelister, you bitcoin too much
634 2010-11-30 17:41:42 <xelister> yea
635 2010-11-30 17:42:00 <xelister> <_<
636 2010-11-30 17:42:24 <nanotube> xelister: nice :)
637 2010-11-30 17:46:55 <theymos> What does Bitcoin taste like?
638 2010-11-30 17:47:18 <brocktice> theymos: solder
639 2010-11-30 17:48:06 <Kiba> it...taste like...BACON
640 2010-11-30 17:48:12 <dwdollar1> like an electric shock on the tongue
641 2010-11-30 17:48:16 <Kiba> I knew it!
642 2010-11-30 17:48:24 <Kiba> bacon is the money of the future!
643 2010-11-30 17:48:32 <nanotube> tastes like... freedom? :)
644 2010-11-30 17:48:46 <Kiba> and freedom taste like bacon
645 2010-11-30 17:49:12 <Kiba> so I got an association that I found that contributed 90 BTC a month to the treasury
646 2010-11-30 17:49:14 <Kiba> MUHAHAHAH
647 2010-11-30 18:02:23 <gavinandresen> svn rev 193 committed: JSON methods: listtransactions, gettransaction, move, sendfrom and getbalance <account>
648 2010-11-30 18:03:12 <nanotube> gavinandresen: oooh... so now we can send from a specific address?
649 2010-11-30 18:03:35 <gavinandresen> From a specific account.  Coins are still selected as before from the wallet.
650 2010-11-30 18:03:53 <nanotube> gavinandresen: but... if an account only has one address? then you send from that specific address? :)
651 2010-11-30 18:04:10 <Kiba> why does Satoshi use SVN?
652 2010-11-30 18:04:12 <gavinandresen> There is no "sending from an address" in bitcoin-- sends go TO an address....
653 2010-11-30 18:05:13 <gavinandresen> (you take a bunch of coins that were sent to your wallet, all of which may have different addresses, bundle them up, then send the bundle TO address...)
654 2010-11-30 18:05:43 <theymos> It would be possible to choose which addresses to send from among those that hold coins.
655 2010-11-30 18:05:44 <nanotube> gavinandresen: are you sure? i mean, if i have 100 coins in address1, it should be possible to send from that specific address (if not with current software, at least in theory)
656 2010-11-30 18:06:36 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: why does listtransactions build a huge list... and then erase it back down to size?
657 2010-11-30 18:06:56 <gavinandresen> If you received 100 coins worth of transactions on address1, and they're still sitting in your wallet unspent, then yeah, theoretically a client could let you use those specific transactions as the input to the send
658 2010-11-30 18:07:23 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: because wallet transactions aren't sorted by time in memory
659 2010-11-30 18:07:45 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: and because computers are really fast these days, and "premature optimization is the root of all evil" (or something like that)
660 2010-11-30 18:08:16 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: You might notice there is no "list all transactions for all accounts" functionality in this version of listtransactions
661 2010-11-30 18:21:22 <jgarzik> hmmm
662 2010-11-30 18:23:18 <Kiba> 5 months will have passed...
663 2010-11-30 18:23:20 <Kiba> very short time
664 2010-11-30 18:23:34 <altamic> davex__: thank you
665 2010-11-30 18:38:17 <davex__> altamic, was it gcc version incompatibility?
666 2010-11-30 18:38:32 <altamic> no idea
667 2010-11-30 18:38:40 <altamic> still not finished the build
668 2010-11-30 18:38:50 <altamic> anyway the compiler is llvm
669 2010-11-30 18:51:36 <nanotube> hm, looks like blocks are coming in slow.
670 2010-11-30 18:51:38 <nanotube> ,,bc,stats
671 2010-11-30 18:51:40 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
672 2010-11-30 18:51:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94767 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 2000 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7009.92144464
673 2010-11-30 19:01:41 <Kiba> triva: What is the most requested wedding song in all of Japan?
674 2010-11-30 19:08:27 <Lyspooner> Take Me Out to the Ballgame
675 2010-11-30 19:08:32 <andrew12> no
676 2010-11-30 19:08:56 <kabo69> Hi!
677 2010-11-30 19:09:02 <andrew12> hi
678 2010-11-30 19:09:02 <kabo69> just downloaded bitcoind
679 2010-11-30 19:09:10 <kabo69> can't get it to start :/
680 2010-11-30 19:09:19 <kabo69> "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbException'"
681 2010-11-30 19:09:29 <kabo69> "what():  Db::put: Operation not permitted"
682 2010-11-30 19:09:44 <andrew12> kabo69: have you tried rebooting?
683 2010-11-30 19:09:53 <kabo69> using linux
684 2010-11-30 19:10:21 <kabo69> haven't tried rebooting, using a server and don't really want to reboot it... :)
685 2010-11-30 19:11:02 <Kiba> Most requested wedding song in Japan: Will You Marry Me?
686 2010-11-30 19:11:04 <kabo69> tried google but this doesn't seem to happen a lot
687 2010-11-30 19:11:13 <andrew12> usually "Operation not permitted" has something to do with the disk
688 2010-11-30 19:11:26 <kabo69> do I need to run as root?
689 2010-11-30 19:11:29 <andrew12> no
690 2010-11-30 19:11:43 <kabo69> hmm... ok
691 2010-11-30 19:11:45 <andrew12> are you able to access ~/.bitcoin/ ?
692 2010-11-30 19:12:05 <kabo69> yes
693 2010-11-30 19:12:10 <andrew12> then i dunno
694 2010-11-30 19:13:03 <kabo69> I moved a wallet from my old install on another machine to this machine
695 2010-11-30 19:13:07 <kabo69> could that be it?
696 2010-11-30 19:13:32 <nanotube> mm, could be... if the other machine had used a different version of bdb maybe...
697 2010-11-30 19:13:49 <kabo69> year, probably, that was version 0.2.0
698 2010-11-30 19:14:14 <nanotube> ah, pretty old.... but first, what is the ownership/permissions of your wallet.dat? and... did you move anything else, or /just/ the wallet.dat?
699 2010-11-30 19:14:35 <kabo69> owned by me, 600
700 2010-11-30 19:14:38 <kabo69> just wallet.dat
701 2010-11-30 19:15:20 <nanotube> kabo69: mm well, in that case... my suggestion would be to create a new wallet on your server... then send all the funds from your old wallet, using your old client, to an address in the new wallet.
702 2010-11-30 19:15:27 <nanotube> kabo69: unless someone else has any better suggestions...
703 2010-11-30 19:15:47 <kabo69> yeah, starting usin a new wallet worked :)
704 2010-11-30 19:15:58 <nanotube> did you have any bitcoins in the old wallet?
705 2010-11-30 19:16:05 <kabo69> like 100 BTC or so
706 2010-11-30 19:16:20 <nanotube> ah not bad. well transfer them to an address in the new wallet.
707 2010-11-30 19:16:52 <kabo69> ok, thanks for the advise, I'll try to figure it out :)
708 2010-11-30 19:16:57 <theymos> Are you using the correct version of Berkeley DB?
709 2010-11-30 19:18:06 <nanotube> theymos: if he's using precompiled binary, that shouldn't be an issue, no?
710 2010-11-30 19:18:33 <nanotube> or is bdb dynamically linked?
711 2010-11-30 19:18:43 <theymos> I think it's dynamically linked on Linux. Not sure, though.
712 2010-11-30 19:23:52 <ArtForz> not in current versions
713 2010-11-30 19:24:13 <ArtForz> dunno about really old ones
714 2010-11-30 19:24:18 <kabo69> sorry, I can't figure this out
715 2010-11-30 19:24:26 <kabo69> getgenerate returns false
716 2010-11-30 19:24:43 <kabo69> so I'm trying setgenerate generate 1
717 2010-11-30 19:24:51 <kabo69> I only want to use one prco
718 2010-11-30 19:25:00 <theymos> setgenerate true 1
719 2010-11-30 19:25:06 <kabo69> but I'm getting error: type mismatch
720 2010-11-30 19:25:09 <kabo69> oh, ok
721 2010-11-30 19:25:31 <kabo69> the docs are a little unclear... http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
722 2010-11-30 19:26:15 <kabo69> also, accounts and adresses...
723 2010-11-30 19:26:33 <kabo69> one account has many addresses?
724 2010-11-30 19:26:38 <kabo69> or the other way around?
725 2010-11-30 19:26:56 <ArtForz> yep
726 2010-11-30 19:27:01 <theymos> One account has many addresses. Or one account can have only one address, as a sort of label.
727 2010-11-30 19:27:30 <kabo69> ok, so I have an account the second I start bitcoin
728 2010-11-30 19:27:32 <kabo69> i guess
729 2010-11-30 19:27:41 <ArtForz> I think each address can be associated with one account = many addresses with the same account
730 2010-11-30 19:28:03 <kabo69> ok
731 2010-11-30 19:28:23 <ArtForz> the account stuff is somewhat of a renaming of the old label features
732 2010-11-30 19:29:49 <ArtForz> at least it was last time I checked
733 2010-11-30 19:30:32 <kabo69> ok, so if I want to receive BTCs they should get sent to my address
734 2010-11-30 19:30:40 <ArtForz> yep
735 2010-11-30 19:30:52 <kabo69> is my wallet the same thing as my account?
736 2010-11-30 19:31:14 <ArtForz> errr... no
737 2010-11-30 19:31:26 <kabo69> is this explained somewhere in the docs, it's all very mushed up right now...
738 2010-11-30 19:31:41 <ArtForz> well, right now the account stuff is still pretty new
739 2010-11-30 19:32:03 <kabo69> I know there are wallets, accounts and addresses, but I can't wrap my head around how the fit together
740 2010-11-30 19:32:38 <ArtForz> simple one-to-many I think
741 2010-11-30 19:32:43 <ArtForz> 1+ accounts per wallet, 1+ addresses per account
742 2010-11-30 19:32:52 <kabo69> ok
743 2010-11-30 19:32:59 <kabo69> can I list the accounts in my wallet?
744 2010-11-30 19:33:57 <ArtForz> not sure
745 2010-11-30 19:34:11 <kabo69> how do I make a new account in my wallet?
746 2010-11-30 19:34:58 <theymos> Create a new address, and specify an account: getnewaddress accountName
747 2010-11-30 19:35:11 <ArtForz> either setaccount on one of your existing addresses or getaccountaddress I think
748 2010-11-30 19:35:14 <kabo69> oh, ok, that sounds simple :)
749 2010-11-30 19:35:25 <ArtForz> I am not 100% certain as I havent really used accounts yet
750 2010-11-30 19:38:01 <andrew12> there
751 2010-11-30 19:38:04 <andrew12> there's one wallet
752 2010-11-30 19:38:18 <andrew12> well, one for each account
753 2010-11-30 19:38:27 <andrew12> each account can have many addressess
754 2010-11-30 19:39:34 <kabo69> one wallet per account, ok
755 2010-11-30 19:39:53 <kabo69> so I've just created an account, but I still only have one wallet.dat
756 2010-11-30 19:40:01 <andrew12> indeed
757 2010-11-30 19:40:11 <kabo69> but if I create another account I'll have another wallet.dat?
758 2010-11-30 19:40:14 <ArtForz> nope
759 2010-11-30 19:40:19 <andrew12> you don't make another account
760 2010-11-30 19:40:21 <theymos> No; there's one wallet per Bitcoin installation. Many accounts in a wallet.
761 2010-11-30 19:40:25 <andrew12> you get another address
762 2010-11-30 19:40:28 <kabo69> ok
763 2010-11-30 19:40:30 <ArtForz> you only have one wallet, many accounts per wallet, many addrs per account
764 2010-11-30 19:40:31 <andrew12> okay so i was wrong
765 2010-11-30 19:40:32 <andrew12> lol
766 2010-11-30 19:40:46 <kabo69> ok
767 2010-11-30 19:42:57 <kabo69> I remember something about having to download blockchains or something like that before being able to start generating coins
768 2010-11-30 19:43:17 <kabo69> can I see where bitcoin is in that process?
769 2010-11-30 19:43:38 <kabo69> blocks is at 91388 right now
770 2010-11-30 19:44:07 <ArtForz> ;;bc,stats
771 2010-11-30 19:44:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94771 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1996 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 2 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6868.24934794
772 2010-11-30 19:44:57 <kabo69> ok, so it should be done with downloading blocks soon
773 2010-11-30 19:48:29 <kabo69> how long does it take for a transaction to reach the recipient?
774 2010-11-30 19:48:52 <ArtForz> usually it shows up pretty much instantly as 0/unconfirmed
775 2010-11-30 19:49:14 <kabo69> yeah, that's what I have in my sending bitcoin
776 2010-11-30 19:49:29 <kabo69> when does it show up in my receiving bitcoin?
777 2010-11-30 19:50:04 <ArtForz> if the tx makes it into the next block, the next block
778 2010-11-30 19:51:19 <kabo69> If I double click the transaction I see 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 1 node
779 2010-11-30 19:51:45 <kabo69> but how long until it's confirmed?
780 2010-11-30 19:51:46 <ArtForz> 1 node? that doesnt sound like much
781 2010-11-30 19:51:55 <kabo69> a few minutes, a couple of days?
782 2010-11-30 19:52:00 <ArtForz> usually when the next block is found (assuming it made it to the general entwork)
783 2010-11-30 19:52:39 <ArtForz> if it doesnt, the sending node waits 1 block + 5-30 minutes before rebroadcasting it
784 2010-11-30 19:53:26 <kabo69> ok, I'll just keep it running over night
785 2010-11-30 19:54:16 <ArtForz> once the tx shows up as 1/unconfirmed on the sender (= it made it into the blockchain) the receiver should see it
786 2010-11-30 19:55:18 <kabo69> ok, thanks for your help
787 2010-11-30 19:55:33 <kabo69> goodnight :)
788 2010-11-30 20:02:10 <Kiba> hmm
789 2010-11-30 20:02:15 <Kiba> no running today...
790 2010-11-30 20:02:17 <Kiba> heavy rain
791 2010-11-30 20:02:25 <Kiba> and my right leg is a bit injured
792 2010-11-30 20:04:49 <skx> ;;bc,calc 3008
793 2010-11-30 20:04:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3008 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 19 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, and 36 seconds
794 2010-11-30 20:05:10 <skx> to what do we owe this jump in difficulty?
795 2010-11-30 20:06:19 <tcatm> Mostly more GPU miners...
796 2010-11-30 20:10:01 <skx> damn them! ;)
797 2010-11-30 20:10:02 <skx> thanks
798 2010-11-30 20:22:09 <Lyspooner> is there a way to call sourceforge data from inside this channel?
799 2010-11-30 20:22:46 <Lyspooner> ...looking to see how many bitcoin clients have been downloaded
800 2010-11-30 20:23:02 <bill__> how does one generate coins from multiple clients simultaneously? does it require simply setting the bitcoin addresses to be the same?
801 2010-11-30 20:23:16 <bill__> i see nothing in the official/unofficial faqs about it
802 2010-11-30 20:23:43 <nelisky> bill__: you can either use remote mining
803 2010-11-30 20:24:01 <nelisky> or just multiple clients and then transfer coins to a central address
804 2010-11-30 20:24:08 <Lyspooner> tcatm: everyone is quick to blame GPU mining, but the forum has had a record November in terms of posts and replies
805 2010-11-30 20:24:10 <bill__> nelisky: thanks
806 2010-11-30 20:24:42 <nelisky> bill__: remote miner is a new thing, but you can use DiabloD3's or momchild's versions
807 2010-11-30 20:24:47 <nelisky> search the forum
808 2010-11-30 20:24:54 <bill__> i'll take a look, thanks again
809 2010-11-30 20:27:15 <ArtForz> I'd guess a large majority of difficulty increase after the post-/. boom is GPU miners
810 2010-11-30 20:31:01 <tcatm> Lyspooner: True. I think even new users will use GPUs. Higher difficulty is good for bitcoin.
811 2010-11-30 20:31:51 <ArtForz> GPU mining is simply WAY too efficient to pass up, unless you happen to have free power
812 2010-11-30 20:32:23 <Lyspooner> i believe you both, i'm just trying to find data to support the claim
813 2010-11-30 20:33:20 <Lyspooner> is there a way to count/guess the number of miners?
814 2010-11-30 20:33:29 <ArtForz> I dont think so
815 2010-11-30 20:35:10 <tcatm> What's the network's current hashrate?
816 2010-11-30 20:36:07 <ArtForz> end of 6866.9 we were averaging >75Gh/s
817 2010-11-30 20:37:10 <ArtForz> my personal GPU cluster is currently doing 8.6Gh/s
818 2010-11-30 20:38:26 <Lyspooner> bitcoin.org is down
819 2010-11-30 20:38:27 <tcatm> Mine's doing 2 Gh/s. 64.4 Gh/s left for other miners.
820 2010-11-30 20:39:43 <bencoder> bitcoin site down?
821 2010-11-30 20:39:52 <Lyspooner> yep
822 2010-11-30 20:39:59 <ArtForz> yup
823 2010-11-30 20:40:05 <Lyspooner> "SMF was unable to connect to the database"
824 2010-11-30 20:41:04 <bencoder> ok
825 2010-11-30 20:41:14 <ArtForz> 75Gh/s really isn't that much
826 2010-11-30 20:42:06 <tcatm> We could have anything from 100 to 10000 miners on the network.
827 2010-11-30 20:42:12 <ArtForz> its still < 150 5970s
828 2010-11-30 20:43:59 <theymos> Is there an easy formula for determining total network hashing power?
829 2010-11-30 20:44:46 <ArtForz> difficulty * 2**32 / 600 is a pretty good estimate for the avg netwrok hashrate over the last difficulty period ;)
830 2010-11-30 20:44:55 <Lyspooner> tcatm: i want to see sourceforge download data vs time, vs difficulty, vs price
831 2010-11-30 20:45:42 <Lyspooner> so ArtForz, you do 10% of bitcoin volume consistently?
832 2010-11-30 20:45:49 <ArtForz> more or less
833 2010-11-30 20:46:11 <Lyspooner> and it's worth it?
834 2010-11-30 20:46:15 <ArtForz> yup
835 2010-11-30 20:46:34 <Lyspooner> do you have a stopping difficulty in mind?
836 2010-11-30 20:46:47 <ArtForz> not really
837 2010-11-30 20:47:08 <Lyspooner> you're so balls deep in this thing, you might as well support the network?
838 2010-11-30 20:47:13 <ArtForz> nope
839 2010-11-30 20:47:29 <ArtForz> I already have the hardware, and as I have a combined power+heat unit power is pretty much free for me over the winter
840 2010-11-30 20:47:48 <tcatm> Depending on price at about 80k power costs might be higher than profit (for people who have to pay for power).
841 2010-11-30 20:48:44 <ArtForz> I'll probably shut down most of the miners over summer if difficulty/market prices makes it unprofitable to run em on utility power
842 2010-11-30 20:49:00 <ArtForz> but we're still a long way away from that
843 2010-11-30 20:49:19 <Diablo-D3> [04:47:08] <Lyspooner> you're so balls deep in this thing, you might as well support the network?
844 2010-11-30 20:49:25 <Diablo-D3> thats only what he does to your mom
845 2010-11-30 20:49:27 <Diablo-D3> dohohohohoh
846 2010-11-30 20:49:50 <bill__> ouch
847 2010-11-30 20:50:26 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEI1AUFJKw
848 2010-11-30 20:50:29 <Diablo-D3> my brain is melting
849 2010-11-30 20:50:42 <Lyspooner> tcatm: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/stats/timeline?dates=2009-02-01+to+2010-11-30
850 2010-11-30 20:51:46 <Kiba> 4,212 downloads...
851 2010-11-30 20:51:53 <Kiba> July 7, 12
852 2010-11-30 20:52:06 <Kiba> The Slashdot Explosion
853 2010-11-30 20:52:37 <tcatm> Another slashdot next year would be good.
854 2010-11-30 20:52:47 <Kiba> Since July 14, we're pretty much in the hundred of download
855 2010-11-30 20:53:14 <Kiba> we got a little something on November 11
856 2010-11-30 20:53:16 <Kiba> err
857 2010-11-30 20:53:17 <Kiba> 15
858 2010-11-30 20:53:24 <bill__> i actually came across bitcoin today on reddit.com
859 2010-11-30 20:53:48 <bill__> didn't make the frontpage, but it was a page back
860 2010-11-30 20:53:58 <theymos> bill__: Link?
861 2010-11-30 20:54:24 <bill__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ee05t/bitcoin_is_a_open_source_peertopeer_network_based/
862 2010-11-30 20:54:28 <theymos> Thanks.
863 2010-11-30 20:54:39 <Kiba> there had never been a day...that bitcoin didn't get a download
864 2010-11-30 20:54:53 <Kiba> I wonder how satoshi feel about this...growth
865 2010-11-30 20:56:07 <Kiba> slashdot can still boot up a project
866 2010-11-30 20:56:58 <xelister> ArtForz: did you considered cooling with outside air
867 2010-11-30 20:57:29 <tcatm> I'm using outside air for cooling.
868 2010-11-30 20:57:34 <xelister> after discussion with you and Diablo-D3  I thought, how about, small PCV pipe like 5 cm diameter, pumping air from outside (-5 .. -15 C here) right into the PC case
869 2010-11-30 20:57:40 <ArtForz> errr... I am using the GPUs the heat my house
870 2010-11-30 20:57:42 <ArtForz> *to
871 2010-11-30 20:57:43 <tcatm> (Miners placed near to open window)
872 2010-11-30 20:57:47 <Diablo-D3> xelister: directly? fuck no
873 2010-11-30 20:57:53 <theymos> I think Satoshi is surprised at how fast this has taken off.
874 2010-11-30 20:57:57 <ArtForz> using outside air would be counterproductive
875 2010-11-30 20:57:57 <xelister> Diablo-D3: well, I live in this room
876 2010-11-30 20:58:02 <xelister> I am in this room during day
877 2010-11-30 20:58:05 <Diablo-D3> xelister: that isnt it, outside air is moist
878 2010-11-30 20:58:07 <xelister> PC is far from window
879 2010-11-30 20:58:12 <Diablo-D3> it'll fuck shit over
880 2010-11-30 20:58:19 <Diablo-D3> you have to pipe it through a filtration system first
881 2010-11-30 20:58:26 <ArtForz> nah, moisture shouldnt be a problem
882 2010-11-30 20:58:27 <xelister> Diablo-D3: hmm indeed... it would condensate into water wouldnt it
883 2010-11-30 20:58:39 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: up here it would
884 2010-11-30 20:58:41 <ArtForz> you usually dont get condensation at >70???C ...
885 2010-11-30 20:58:53 <Diablo-D3> no, the outside air already IS moist
886 2010-11-30 20:59:08 <Diablo-D3> it'd ruin your shit
887 2010-11-30 20:59:16 <Diablo-D3> especially during the early morning
888 2010-11-30 20:59:20 <Kiba> maybe satoshi sucks at English and got some English spekaing dude to write for him...
889 2010-11-30 20:59:26 <Kiba> so he didn't talk much
890 2010-11-30 20:59:42 <Kiba> outside of development
891 2010-11-30 20:59:58 <Kiba> MEH
892 2010-11-30 21:00:04 <xelister> -10 C (feels like -16.3C) Dew point -12.0 C relative humidity 83%
893 2010-11-30 21:00:59 <tcatm> Considering how much he has written on mailing lists I'm pretty sure he's doesn't have a ghostwriter.
894 2010-11-30 21:01:08 <xelister> haaai satoshi san!  I wanna make hot European love to you, mate change block 0 to my own tree, mate?
895 2010-11-30 21:01:26 <theymos> I wonder how badly exchange rate would be affected if bitcoin.org went down for good.
896 2010-11-30 21:01:46 <tcatm> Who runs bitcoin.org's server?
897 2010-11-30 21:01:51 <theymos> Sirius-m
898 2010-11-30 21:01:56 <ArtForz> I dont get quite get how the hell condensation would occur in a running computer?
899 2010-11-30 21:02:11 <Lyspooner> .04 usd/btc if bitcoin.org goes down
900 2010-11-30 21:02:11 <xelister> ArtForz: pumping outside air into the pc case?
901 2010-11-30 21:02:28 <ArtForz> oh... ok, thats probably a bad idea
902 2010-11-30 21:03:13 <xelister> Lyspooner: it takes 0.20 - 0.30 usd/btc usually to produce
903 2010-11-30 21:03:48 <ArtForz> I was more thinking about a scenario ala "room actively vented to outside"
904 2010-11-30 21:05:17 <Kiba> hmm
905 2010-11-30 21:05:19 <Lyspooner> xelister: if bitcoin.org goes down permanently, then I target .04USD/BTC is the going exchange rate.  initially people wouldn't produce, difficulty would drop until some people produced, and
906 2010-11-30 21:05:22 <Kiba> bitcoin.org forum seem to be down
907 2010-11-30 21:05:50 <Kiba> we should begin decentralizing the bitcoin discussion community?
908 2010-11-30 21:06:04 <ArtForz> as a running box is quite a bit warmer than its surroundings, it should be pretty much the last place where condensation occurs
909 2010-11-30 21:07:22 <xelister> we could have bitcoin-mirror.org
910 2010-11-30 21:07:34 <xelister> or bitcoin page in freenet (probably is there already)
911 2010-11-30 21:07:39 <Kiba> so
912 2010-11-30 21:07:47 <Kiba> I can't load the forum
913 2010-11-30 21:07:51 <Kiba> anybody knows what's going on?
914 2010-11-30 21:08:05 <Lyspooner> wikileaks.org looks similar
915 2010-11-30 21:08:08 <bencoder> been down for a while
916 2010-11-30 21:08:18 <djoot> Reddit DDoS? :)
917 2010-11-30 21:08:19 <bencoder> yeah my first thought is it looks like a ddos
918 2010-11-30 21:08:27 <theymos> Someone just set up a Bitcoin forum on Tor: http://44eeao3qvv2wz3vv.tor2web.com/
919 2010-11-30 21:08:37 <bencoder> but it seems a bit unlikely
920 2010-11-30 21:08:51 <Kiba> Reddit DDOS?
921 2010-11-30 21:09:01 <theymos> Bitcoin.org still responds to pings. My guess is accidental misconfiguration.