1 2010-12-01 00:00:16 <grondilu> And Peter Schiff ?  Has anyone tried to contact him and suggested him to accept bitcoin donations ?
  2 2010-12-01 00:00:24 <AAA_awright> ?
  3 2010-12-01 00:00:24 <jgarzik> brocktice: it would be nice if EPIC took donations via bitcoin
  4 2010-12-01 00:00:28 <jgarzik> er
  5 2010-12-01 00:00:33 <jgarzik> brucewagner: it would be nice if EPIC took donations via bitcoin
  6 2010-12-01 00:01:21 <AAA_awright> Progressives: BitCoins -> Evil
  7 2010-12-01 00:01:48 <AAA_awright> Certainly Obama, Bernanke, possibly RMS
  8 2010-12-01 00:02:18 <grondilu> Yeah I'm afraid RMS is a bit too left-minded to like bitcoin.
  9 2010-12-01 00:02:29 <AAA_awright> Whatever it is I think we will be suprised
 10 2010-12-01 00:03:00 <AAA_awright> Is it just me or is the FSF and the EFF not on the best of terms?
 11 2010-12-01 00:03:05 <JudStephenson> grondilu: +100 for saying Schiff
 12 2010-12-01 00:03:27 <JudStephenson> Do you follow the Austrian school by chance?
 13 2010-12-01 00:03:37 <grondilu> But I woudn't be very surprised if Steve Jobs starts his own block chain in the future.
 14 2010-12-01 00:04:20 <grondilu> JudStephenson: I followed Peter Schiff, Max Keiser, Marc Faber, Jim Rogers and so on during the crisis.
 15 2010-12-01 00:04:21 <bencoder> only authorised blocks are allowed in the block chain, vetted by apple employees
 16 2010-12-01 00:04:29 <AAA_awright> That's somewhat of a concern I have too...
 17 2010-12-01 00:04:37 <AAA_awright> Or any big bank, who knows, the NSA
 18 2010-12-01 00:04:54 <grondilu> AAA_awright: it would not necessarly be a bad thing.
 19 2010-12-01 00:05:00 <brucewagner> Has anyone seen this?  "Ron Paul may Oversee The Fed"  http://goo.gl/ZDOxT
 20 2010-12-01 00:05:01 <AAA_awright> I mean who better to subvert BitCoin than the Fed and the NSA working together... that would be creept
 21 2010-12-01 00:05:11 <grondilu> competing cryptocurrencies is fine.
 22 2010-12-01 00:05:17 <anarchyx> feds worst nightmare
 23 2010-12-01 00:05:26 <anarchyx> i wish it happens
 24 2010-12-01 00:05:28 <anarchyx> :)
 25 2010-12-01 00:05:59 <JudStephenson> I think the fed would die if it had to show its books
 26 2010-12-01 00:06:13 <AAA_awright> Who is up for some discussion on advanced theory?
 27 2010-12-01 00:06:29 <anarchyx> advanced theory of ?
 28 2010-12-01 00:06:31 <JudStephenson> advanced theory of?
 29 2010-12-01 00:06:44 <grondilu> Sometimes it seems to me that Ron Paul is the real POTUS
 30 2010-12-01 00:06:52 <JudStephenson> ah, good one anarchyx
 31 2010-12-01 00:07:08 <anarchyx> nice lol
 32 2010-12-01 00:07:36 <AAA_awright> What if you didn't need a block chain?
 33 2010-12-01 00:07:53 <AAA_awright> It's designed not to fork, but if it does it's pretty serious
 34 2010-12-01 00:08:36 <AAA_awright> No crypto CSE people here?
 35 2010-12-01 00:09:38 <brucewagner> We come from so many diverse backgrounds, and areas of expertise...  That's one of the things I love most about the Bitcoin community.  And, it is a real Community.
 36 2010-12-01 00:09:44 <davex__> AAA_awright, what are you talking about
 37 2010-12-01 00:10:03 <AAA_awright> The design of the network
 38 2010-12-01 00:10:21 <grondilu> brucewagner: I doubt so.  My guess is most of us are typical no-life nerds.
 39 2010-12-01 00:10:45 <brucewagner> Ha ha! Speak for yourself!  :)
 40 2010-12-01 00:10:48 <AAA_awright> Alright, here's a theory I've been working on.
 41 2010-12-01 00:10:54 <brucewagner> I have a life....
 42 2010-12-01 00:10:55 <brucewagner> sometimes
 43 2010-12-01 00:11:05 <AAA_awright> Someone let me know if this gets cut off. Define a hashing function GETTHEBLOCK( inputs ) which takes the entire list of private keys and how much they hold, and produces a very large number based on it, in such a way a private key with a balance of zero passed to the input does not affect the output, and additionally such that an examination of the hash can reveal how many total units of currency it embodies. All numbers (bit arrays)
 44 2010-12-01 00:11:12 <grondilu> I said "most of us"
 45 2010-12-01 00:12:16 <brucewagner> I understood that completely.
 46 2010-12-01 00:12:18 <AAA_awright> Right?
 47 2010-12-01 00:12:32 <AAA_awright> Produce a second public/private key pair "A". Create an acyclic directed graph with a single node of value B0, this represents A's first "transaction" formally giving that private key a balance of zero.
 48 2010-12-01 00:12:54 <AAA_awright> So we don't make the block network a linear directed graph, instead we make each person's transactions an acyclic directed graph that is (usually) linear.
 49 2010-12-01 00:13:06 <brucewagner> Everything.....up to the first instance of the word, "hashing"
 50 2010-12-01 00:13:24 <genjix> brucewagner: diverse backgrounds?
 51 2010-12-01 00:13:32 <AAA_awright> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashing_function
 52 2010-12-01 00:13:38 <AAA_awright> brucewagner: Like SHA256!
 53 2010-12-01 00:13:43 <genjix> you mean a bunch of paranoid libertarian/anarchist hackers?
 54 2010-12-01 00:13:49 <grondilu> AAA_awright: can you tell us what's your goal first ?
 55 2010-12-01 00:13:51 <davex__> don't know what problem you're solving
 56 2010-12-01 00:13:52 <genjix> how is that diverse :p
 57 2010-12-01 00:14:31 <AAA_awright> The goal, is to entirely remove the transaction history and consolidate it into a hash
 58 2010-12-01 00:15:00 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: that sounds wonderful.... it really does.  but I don't understand it.    How will eliminating the transaction history improve usage?
 59 2010-12-01 00:15:13 <tcatm> The transaction history could already be discarded.
 60 2010-12-01 00:15:23 <anarchyx> brucewagner: i love your inputs in the forums etc, really good to have you
 61 2010-12-01 00:15:26 <AAA_awright> You don't have to download all the blocks that came before you to know if your transaction worked
 62 2010-12-01 00:15:32 <AAA_awright> or something
 63 2010-12-01 00:15:36 <brucewagner> anarchyx: thanks!  :)
 64 2010-12-01 00:15:41 <anarchyx> ;)
 65 2010-12-01 00:15:56 <AAA_awright> Now here is the magic. GETTHEBLOCK is defined in such a way that ORIGIN can encrypt then sign then encrypt (again -- so that without A's private key a third party cannot prove from the fully decrypted message who sent it) a message for and readable by A, that allows A to modify the block to what GETTHEBLOCK would produce if ORIGIN had x less currency and A had x more currency (maybe they have to negotiate the actual change that happens
 66 2010-12-01 00:15:57 <davex__> AAA_awright, that problem's addressed in the bitcoin white paper
 67 2010-12-01 00:16:00 <genjix> any other squatters here?
 68 2010-12-01 00:16:09 <grondilu> AAA_awright: downloading all the blocks doesn't take that much time.
 69 2010-12-01 00:16:26 <AAA_awright> It takes me several hours to download a few thousand blocks
 70 2010-12-01 00:16:46 <AAA_awright> Plus, you can see all the transactions
 71 2010-12-01 00:16:54 <grondilu> you had a poor connection.  And several hours is fine for a one-time task.
 72 2010-12-01 00:17:40 <tcatm> AAA_awright: Can you draft your idea on a paper/PDF?
 73 2010-12-01 00:17:42 <brucewagner> Is seeing all the transactions a bad thing?  Is that bad for anonymity?
 74 2010-12-01 00:17:55 <AAA_awright> tcatm: Well the thing is GETTHEBLOCK might be impossible
 75 2010-12-01 00:17:56 <AAA_awright> I think it is
 76 2010-12-01 00:18:01 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: have you written a post about this in the development forum?
 77 2010-12-01 00:18:08 <AAA_awright> Not quite yet
 78 2010-12-01 00:18:13 <doublec> brucewagner, it's good for tracking down scammers and investigating problems
 79 2010-12-01 00:18:19 <doublec> brucewagner, but bad for anonymity
 80 2010-12-01 00:18:26 <tcatm> Would still be nice to have it written down so the idea doesn't get lost.
 81 2010-12-01 00:18:46 <bencoder> not really any other way to maintain trust brucewagner. either everyone sees all transactions and we can know how someone ended up with a particular coin or piece of coin, or people can cheat
 82 2010-12-01 00:18:51 <AAA_awright> That's most of a file I have saved right now
 83 2010-12-01 00:19:00 <AAA_awright> Meh I'll post to the forum
 84 2010-12-01 00:19:04 <grondilu> AAA_awright: have you red the white paper ?
 85 2010-12-01 00:19:05 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: I'd definately encourage you to write it down and post it in the forum (once it's back up)
 86 2010-12-01 00:19:16 <AAA_awright> brucewagner: A little yeah
 87 2010-12-01 00:19:17 <theymos> It's impossible to say "this transaction is not double-spending" unless you have every other unspent transaction.
 88 2010-12-01 00:19:22 <AAA_awright> grondilu: A little yeah
 89 2010-12-01 00:19:37 <grondilu> AAA_awright: then I think you should read it more.
 90 2010-12-01 00:20:01 <brucewagner> Your idea could lead to other, even better, ideas...  when others put their heads together.
 91 2010-12-01 00:20:22 <grondilu> but I agree with brucewagner :  you should post your ideas on the forum
 92 2010-12-01 00:20:28 <brucewagner> Then, if it gets that far, you can begin working on a test network.  :)
 93 2010-12-01 00:21:20 <brucewagner> Ohhh.... the collaboration of the human collective consciousness....  is capable of ANYTHING
 94 2010-12-01 00:21:31 <AAA_awright> theymos: If transactions are broadcast to the network right away that won't happen, also, every transaction embodies all the transactions before it, so transactions could propigate that way even without a network
 95 2010-12-01 00:21:56 <bencoder> hmm, how do i use fms? do I have to leave it on for a while until it's picked up the bitcoin board?
 96 2010-12-01 00:22:38 <AAA_awright> You would have to give money to two seperate people who aren't connected to each other, in such a way that transaction wouldn't be able to clear if they had to merge
 97 2010-12-01 00:22:49 <AAA_awright> That's the worst-case
 98 2010-12-01 00:24:21 <AAA_awright> Also, has anyone taken a look at my end-to-end encrypted IP proposal?
 99 2010-12-01 00:24:35 <AAA_awright> I'm completely suprised no one has done anything like that
100 2010-12-01 00:24:38 <theymos> bencoder: Yes. Also add some trust in some identities.
101 2010-12-01 00:26:37 <brocktice> wow, so, site is down
102 2010-12-01 00:26:46 <brocktice> I guess I'm probably a little behind on that
103 2010-12-01 00:27:48 <brocktice> reddit effect?
104 2010-12-01 00:28:28 <brucewagner> (i'm back)
105 2010-12-01 00:30:06 <Kiba> can't be, brucewagner
106 2010-12-01 00:30:13 <Kiba> err
107 2010-12-01 00:30:15 <Kiba> brocktice:
108 2010-12-01 00:30:18 <Kiba> auto-complete
109 2010-12-01 00:30:45 <brocktice> Kiba: can't be what? From Reddit?
110 2010-12-01 00:30:52 <brocktice> who hosts bitcoin.org? Satoshi?
111 2010-12-01 00:30:53 <AAA_awright> What's a reddit?
112 2010-12-01 00:30:59 <xelister> https://www.bitcoinexchange.com/  dead?
113 2010-12-01 00:31:02 <AAA_awright> You mean the Slashdot effect?
114 2010-12-01 00:31:12 <brocktice> AAA_awright: did it get posted on slashdot again?
115 2010-12-01 00:31:19 <AAA_awright> Not specifically?
116 2010-12-01 00:31:31 <RHorning> I've done a tracert and ping connection to bitcoin.org.... it seems to be a solid connection.  Either this is a crashed server or a DOS attack.
117 2010-12-01 00:31:55 <brucewagner> Was there a new article on reddit?  Or was that just a guess?
118 2010-12-01 00:32:04 <bencoder> Sirius_ hosts bitcoin.org and bitcoinexchange I believe
119 2010-12-01 00:32:05 <grondilu> a DoS attack ?  Seriously ?
120 2010-12-01 00:32:13 <theymos> Sirius-m hosts both bitcoin.org and Bitcoin Exchange. Something's wrong with the network at his server location: its TCP is behaving oddly.
121 2010-12-01 00:32:14 <dust__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ee05t/bitcoin_is_a_open_source_peertopeer_network_based/
122 2010-12-01 00:32:19 <Kiba> I recokn a crashed server
123 2010-12-01 00:32:42 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: see http://reddit.com  ( a news ranking site )
124 2010-12-01 00:32:55 <AAA_awright> People still read that thing?
125 2010-12-01 00:33:01 <bencoder> when it first happened i could get to /smf but it just moaned it couldn't connect to the database
126 2010-12-01 00:33:14 <bencoder> so i don't think it's the web server
127 2010-12-01 00:33:59 <brocktice> Who runs it? Satoshi?
128 2010-12-01 00:34:08 <brocktice> It wouldn't be the first attack on the bitcoin network
129 2010-12-01 00:34:15 <brocktice> first there was the tx spamming
130 2010-12-01 00:34:25 <brocktice> I wonder if there's a bitcoin tiger team?
131 2010-12-01 00:34:30 <brocktice> I saw some mention of this on the forums.
132 2010-12-01 00:34:53 <Kiba> tiger team?
133 2010-12-01 00:35:11 <brocktice> http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=tiger+team
134 2010-12-01 00:35:20 <Kiba> how active is sirus?
135 2010-12-01 00:35:36 <AAA_awright> Oh that's the other great thing about my idea... You can reduce an infinite number of transactions down to a single message
136 2010-12-01 00:35:54 <AAA_awright> And it should still be mathematically hard
137 2010-12-01 00:35:54 <bencoder> theymos can i add your public key?
138 2010-12-01 00:36:17 <theymos> bencoder: Add it to what?
139 2010-12-01 00:36:34 <bencoder> fms
140 2010-12-01 00:36:50 <bencoder> i mean, can you give it to me so i can add it... one of your identities
141 2010-12-01 00:37:03 <MacRohard> weird. traceroute to bitcoin.org works fine
142 2010-12-01 00:37:10 <bencoder> yep
143 2010-12-01 00:37:14 <theymos> Oh. I haven't been on FMS for a while. Solve some CAPTCHAs to get some identities added to your list.
144 2010-12-01 00:37:20 <MacRohard> maybe it's getting DOSed and some kind of DOS countermeasure came into play
145 2010-12-01 00:37:24 <bencoder> not really weird if ping works
146 2010-12-01 00:37:41 <theymos> brocktice: Then give them trust so you download more identities, boards, messages, etc.
147 2010-12-01 00:37:57 <bencoder> theymos: yeah i've given them 100, perhaps naively :P
148 2010-12-01 00:37:58 <brucewagner> AAA_awright: The fact that an infinite number of transactions could be reduced to one message, could become very beneficial once there are 287,000,000 transactions being processed per minute globally.  No?
149 2010-12-01 00:38:12 <AAA_awright> Right
150 2010-12-01 00:38:31 <AAA_awright> hmm, s/infinite/indefinate/
151 2010-12-01 00:38:38 <tcatm> Old transactions can already be removed from the chain.
152 2010-12-01 00:38:39 <AAA_awright> *indefinite
153 2010-12-01 00:38:47 <bencoder> god i hope we get to a point where this will start to be real concerns
154 2010-12-01 00:39:05 <AAA_awright> Scale is hard
155 2010-12-01 00:39:05 <MacRohard> i think someone must be attacking the port 80 - either that or just the flood of reddit traffic is flooding the port 80
156 2010-12-01 00:39:09 <theymos> bencoder: That works fine. If you trust a spammer, the other identities' trust rating cancels it out usually. There aren't any spammers on FMS, anyway.
157 2010-12-01 00:39:20 <bencoder> ok
158 2010-12-01 00:39:25 <brocktice> theymos: wha?
159 2010-12-01 00:39:52 <doublec> bencoder, it'll take about 12-24 hours for the trust to progogate and your identity to be usable
160 2010-12-01 00:40:04 <brucewagner> They are mentioning that the bitcoin.org site is down.... on the comments on that reddit item.
161 2010-12-01 00:40:06 <bencoder> okay, thanks doublec :)
162 2010-12-01 00:40:39 <bencoder> will check tomorrow night i guess
163 2010-12-01 00:40:54 <bencoder> running freenet via a vps is far superior
164 2010-12-01 00:41:06 <doublec> At some point you'll see 'Announced' set to 'Yes' in 'Local Identities' against the identity you used to fill out the captcha
165 2010-12-01 00:42:11 <theymos> Anyone want to add my node as a Freenet peer? I'm online like 24/7.
166 2010-12-01 00:42:47 <bencoder> sure :)
167 2010-12-01 00:43:11 <MacRohard> maybe create some usenet newsgroups for bitcoin
168 2010-12-01 00:43:25 <doublec> theymos, I will if you send me your node reference signed with your pgp key
169 2010-12-01 00:43:29 <brocktice> brucewagner: I wish you wouldn't push so hard that bitcoin transactions will always be free
170 2010-12-01 00:43:30 <MacRohard> i dunno if anyone would use it though :/
171 2010-12-01 00:43:34 <brocktice> brucewagner: that is not true
172 2010-12-01 00:43:47 <brocktice> brucewagner: though I doubt it will ever get western-union bad in terms of fees.
173 2010-12-01 00:43:48 <theymos> bencoder: I PMed you.
174 2010-12-01 00:43:52 <theymos> doublec: OK.
175 2010-12-01 00:45:12 <brucewagner> brocktice: Did you see the (*) footnote?  I worded it carefully and had the Forum verify it for total accuracy....
176 2010-12-01 00:45:14 <genjix> having the bitcoin site down is not at all good for propaganda
177 2010-12-01 00:46:08 <brucewagner> brocktice: HERE IT IS:  * Users have the OPTION of paying a very tiny fee (like $0.01 for example) to receive "priority processing" of their transaction.  In the future, this should result in faster processing of their transaction.  (In fact, the system is designed so that transactions that pay $0.02 fee will have even higher priority than  transactions that pay a $0.01 optional fee.)  However, at this point, with the curren
178 2010-12-01 00:46:46 <brocktice> brucewagner: please see my msg to you
179 2010-12-01 00:46:56 <brocktice> There is no asterisk on the front page of your site
180 2010-12-01 00:47:06 <brocktice> Where you say 'it's as free as email'
181 2010-12-01 00:47:14 <brucewagner> On the front page of the site, the word "free" is a link.
182 2010-12-01 00:47:35 <brucewagner> Should it be an * too?
183 2010-12-01 00:47:39 <brocktice> Yes, ah I see you have the asterisk on the next page
184 2010-12-01 00:47:55 <brocktice> I guess if people are going to read into it more that would be okay.
185 2010-12-01 00:48:02 <brocktice> I just... it seems a little misleading.
186 2010-12-01 00:48:11 <brocktice> As does the bit about the rapid increase in price
187 2010-12-01 00:48:14 <brocktice> that may or may not hold.
188 2010-12-01 00:48:18 <theymos> doublec: I PMed you my reference.
189 2010-12-01 00:48:32 <doublec> theymos, thanks, will send you mine shortly
190 2010-12-01 00:49:30 <brocktice> Also, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think ANY data about transactions are encrypted.
191 2010-12-01 00:49:41 <theymos> They're not.
192 2010-12-01 00:49:49 <brucewagner> brocktice:  I realize that the * is buried a little... but I think it's appropriate.  Actually, I think that calling the "optional priority processing fee"... a "transaction fee".... is misleading.
193 2010-12-01 00:49:49 <theymos> Bitcoin does no encryption whatsoever.
194 2010-12-01 00:49:52 <brocktice> They're cryptographically signed and verified by strong hashes.
195 2010-12-01 00:49:52 <genjix> ah i get the transaction thing now then
196 2010-12-01 00:50:08 <genjix> yeah plz change that
197 2010-12-01 00:50:15 <genjix> i never understood before now
198 2010-12-01 00:50:22 <brocktice> but as the bitcoin block explorer shows, you can pretty easily track transactions to a person
199 2010-12-01 00:50:35 <brocktice> unless a better anonymization service is started, and that is being discussed on the forums.
200 2010-12-01 00:50:37 <genjix> "bitcoin transactions are free but i can pay for them- what for?"
201 2010-12-01 00:50:39 <brucewagner> bricktice: Yes, the part about the rapid increase might be overstated.  I may correct that.  Although, the trend-line still appears to be a healthy up, up, up...
202 2010-12-01 00:50:43 <brocktice> when they're up...
203 2010-12-01 00:50:52 <davex__> brocktice, how would you track to a person?
204 2010-12-01 00:50:55 <brocktice> brucewagner: please see mtgox.com/blog
205 2010-12-01 00:51:26 <brocktice> davex__: easiest way would be to monitor a large number of nodes and try to correlate with some purchasing or exchanging activity.
206 2010-12-01 00:52:10 <brocktice> anyway I'll be back in a little bit, have ashort meting
207 2010-12-01 00:52:13 <brocktice> a short meting
208 2010-12-01 00:52:41 <brucewagner> bricktice: I mean the overall trendline...
209 2010-12-01 01:38:25 <nanotube> brucewagner: what did i do? but see ,,(botsnack) :)
210 2010-12-01 01:38:27 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
211 2010-12-01 01:38:39 <genjix> how do I find the bitcoin FMS forums
212 2010-12-01 01:38:51 <genjix> I only see fms/freenet/public/test
213 2010-12-01 01:39:12 <brucewagner> nanotube: what do you mean?
214 2010-12-01 01:39:23 <theymos> genjix: Go to"manage boards", IIRC.
215 2010-12-01 01:39:43 <nanotube> <brucewagner> nanotube: give me your bitcoin address for donations
216 2010-12-01 01:39:45 <genjix> aha thanks
217 2010-12-01 01:39:49 <nanotube> brucewagner: --^ that was in response to that :)
218 2010-12-01 01:40:21 <brucewagner> nanotube: you said you were a poor student.... so give me your bitcoin address for donations....  :)
219 2010-12-01 01:40:55 <doublec> genjix, got to 'manage boards'. Over time more boards will be listed there as messages go through the system.
220 2010-12-01 01:41:02 <nanotube> brucewagner: well, i am... but i must have done something for you to think i deserve some donations. :)
221 2010-12-01 01:41:04 <doublec> genjix, so it might take 24-48 hours for 'bitcoin' to appear
222 2010-12-01 01:41:04 <genjix> I went to 'control boards' and added bitcoin
223 2010-12-01 01:41:11 <genjix> but i cant find manage boards
224 2010-12-01 01:41:15 <nanotube> and seeing as how gribble is my bot, when you donate to gribble, you donate to me. :) hence the botsnack bit. :)
225 2010-12-01 01:41:17 <genjix> oh wow 24 hours is looong
226 2010-12-01 01:42:06 <doublec> genjix, it's "Board Maintenance"
227 2010-12-01 01:42:31 <theymos> You can just "add board" bitcoin, though it will be empty until you get a message.
228 2010-12-01 01:42:56 <genjix> cool i see it, but no posts... will have to wait :)
229 2010-12-01 01:42:57 <genjix> thanks
230 2010-12-01 01:43:17 <genjix> aha I see.
231 2010-12-01 01:43:28 <genjix> so FMS only gets new posts... i cant see old posts
232 2010-12-01 01:43:30 <theymos> There's a setting that controls how far back in time you poll for messages, and I believe also how often you poll for messages. Changing those might help.
233 2010-12-01 01:43:48 <genjix> ok
234 2010-12-01 01:46:01 <genjix> > fuck?? you ,, fuking anarchist son of a bitch.. .I.
235 2010-12-01 01:46:05 <genjix> message i got :p
236 2010-12-01 01:46:12 <nanotube> btw, any reason bitcoin.org is not hosted on sf.net webhost? sf.net has pretty good uptime, and they can handle craploads of traffic.
237 2010-12-01 01:46:30 <jgarzik> "FMS evokes some nostalgia because its pretty-much Usenet over Freenet"
238 2010-12-01 01:46:52 <theymos> Can you host a SMF and DokuWiki on SourceForge? Also, bitcoin.org is a Bitcoin seednode.
239 2010-12-01 01:47:05 <jgarzik> DDoS'ing
240 2010-12-01 01:47:06 <nanotube> theymos: yes, and yes.
241 2010-12-01 01:47:36 <nanotube> theymos: you can't host a bitcoin seednode on sf :) but that's no reason not to host the website stuff
242 2010-12-01 01:48:08 <Foggymyst> While the bitcoin site is down, where can I download the client in the meantime?
243 2010-12-01 01:48:14 <jgarzik> seednode isn't terribly important
244 2010-12-01 01:48:36 <jgarzik> Foggymyst: if you can compile yourself, you can download source code from SourceForget
245 2010-12-01 01:48:36 <theymos> Foggymyst: The files have always been hosted at http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/
246 2010-12-01 01:48:46 <theymos> Binaries are on SF, too.
247 2010-12-01 01:49:02 <Foggymyst> Ok sounds, good.
248 2010-12-01 01:49:17 <jgarzik> ah, cool
249 2010-12-01 01:49:37 <nanotube> jgarzik: even if it was... there shouldn't be a problem hosting the seednode on whatever server it is now, while letting bitcoin.org point to the sf.net webhost.
250 2010-12-01 01:49:48 <theymos> Only like 10% of seednodes are actually online, so it is a shame to remove one...
251 2010-12-01 01:50:22 <nanotube> theymos: what are the important characteristics of being a seednode? i could run one on my vps, if there's a lack of seednodes.
252 2010-12-01 01:50:37 <doublec> same here
253 2010-12-01 01:51:05 <genjix> maybe here too if one of you three wishes to set it up
254 2010-12-01 01:51:25 <genjix> but ill have to see in a weeks time.
255 2010-12-01 01:51:41 <nanotube> genjix: well, setting it up shouldn't be any more complex than downloading the linux binary, and running bitcoind...
256 2010-12-01 01:51:57 <nanotube> (and adding it to crontab to autostart)
257 2010-12-01 01:52:09 <theymos> Static IP is important, since it's hardcoded. Also uptime. And you might have to endure a DoS attack, I suppose.
258 2010-12-01 01:52:10 <genjix> ah so its just a generating bitcoin process?
259 2010-12-01 01:52:16 <theymos> Yes.
260 2010-12-01 01:52:29 <nanotube> theymos: seednode doesn't have to generate blocks, though right?
261 2010-12-01 01:52:38 <nanotube> theymos: just to sit there and route traffic?
262 2010-12-01 01:52:38 <theymos> No.
263 2010-12-01 01:52:43 <theymos> Right.
264 2010-12-01 01:52:44 <jgarzik> serve addresses
265 2010-12-01 01:52:50 <doublec> how does one volunteer to be a seednode?
266 2010-12-01 01:53:02 <nanotube> theymos: in that case, i'll set it up...
267 2010-12-01 01:53:18 <nanotube> yea good question - how does one get 'on the list of seednodes' ?
268 2010-12-01 01:53:36 <doublec> And who are the original seednodes :)
269 2010-12-01 01:53:39 <theymos> Satoshi just picked them from the network at random. Maybe you could ask him. He wasn't really interested when I posted the topic about most seednodes being offline, though...
270 2010-12-01 01:54:09 <nanotube> theymos: well we could keep an updated list of seednodes on the wiki
271 2010-12-01 01:54:11 <theymos> Current seednodes: http://pastebin.com/E5KECmtj
272 2010-12-01 01:55:27 <theymos> The list hasn't been changed in months.
273 2010-12-01 01:56:41 <nanotube> mm well, even if the node doesn't get on the 'official list of seednodes', having more good nodes should be good for the network anyway, right?
274 2010-12-01 01:57:10 <nanotube> since existing seednodes will suggest other ips to a newly-connected client?
275 2010-12-01 01:57:27 <theymos> Yes. High-uptime nodes are good.
276 2010-12-01 01:57:57 <theymos> List it at the wiki's fallback_nodes page, too (when it comes back online).
277 2010-12-01 01:58:15 <nanotube> theymos: should we have a backup wiki? i could set one up too
278 2010-12-01 01:58:21 <nanotube> and backup forums? :)
279 2010-12-01 01:58:35 <nanotube> has bitcoin.org been down before?
280 2010-12-01 01:58:45 <theymos> Not that I remember.
281 2010-12-01 01:59:14 <theymos> Backup stuff is probably unnecessary. Satoshi and sirius-m will always set something up in short order.
282 2010-12-01 02:01:31 <brucewagner> Has anyone emailed Satoshi about the server being down?
283 2010-12-01 02:01:35 <Denizzz__> hi! What happened with bitcoin.org ?
284 2010-12-01 02:01:37 <theymos> I did.
285 2010-12-01 02:02:05 <brucewagner> ok. cool. he's probably on a hot date right now sipping on some saki and sushi somewhere...  :)
286 2010-12-01 02:06:49 <Denizzz__> It is utf-8 chat?
287 2010-12-01 02:07:33 <Denizzz__> ?????? ?????? ??????
288 2010-12-01 02:07:34 <Denizzz__> ?
289 2010-12-01 02:11:50 <Kiba> been down waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long
290 2010-12-01 02:11:52 <Kiba> ;_;
291 2010-12-01 02:11:58 <nanotube> Denizzz__: o/ :) yea utf8 works for me.
292 2010-12-01 02:12:10 <nanotube> Denizzz__: it's client-dependent, though. irc just routes whatever bytes you send through.
293 2010-12-01 02:14:53 <denizzz> B5AB
294 2010-12-01 02:16:04 <Lachesis> hey
295 2010-12-01 02:16:08 <denizzz> brucewagner: can you fix word " >AA8N" to " CAA:89" on http://www.bitcoinme.com/index.html ?
296 2010-12-01 02:16:08 <Lachesis> is bitcoin.org down?
297 2010-12-01 02:16:18 <denizzz> Lachesis: yes
298 2010-12-01 02:16:43 <denizzz> There was no need to try to make friendship with the wikileaks
299 2010-12-01 02:17:41 <Lachesis> so... why?
300 2010-12-01 02:18:33 <denizzz> Lachesis: FBI closed site on suspicion of collaboration with wikileaks
301 2010-12-01 02:18:51 <denizzz> All developers are arrested
302 2010-12-01 02:19:37 <Lachesis> umm?
303 2010-12-01 02:19:41 <denizzz> just a joke
304 2010-12-01 02:19:47 <Lachesis> i see
305 2010-12-01 02:19:53 <Lachesis> any idea why it's actually down?
306 2010-12-01 02:20:17 <nanotube> probably some technical problem... or too much traffic, Lachesis
307 2010-12-01 02:20:19 <denizzz> Sometimes computers are broken
308 2010-12-01 02:20:41 <Lachesis> lol ok
309 2010-12-01 02:20:42 <denizzz> ping are works
310 2010-12-01 02:21:33 <nanotube> yea ping is up, but maybe the webserver is toast... for now, we can only guess. :)
311 2010-12-01 02:21:57 <denizzz> What is Satoshi time zone?
312 2010-12-01 02:22:14 <denizzz> I guess he sleep by now
313 2010-12-01 02:25:17 <theymos> He sends email from UTC+1. His email to me has always been 8AM-12PM central US time.
314 2010-12-01 02:26:17 <bitplane> Hi, I just learned about bitcoin today, is the website usually down?
315 2010-12-01 02:26:30 <doublec> no normally, no
316 2010-12-01 02:26:31 <theymos> Nope. Usually up.
317 2010-12-01 02:26:38 <doublec> this is the longest outage I can remember
318 2010-12-01 02:27:01 <bitplane> mind if I ask some dumb questions here, or should I take it to #bitcoin ?
319 2010-12-01 02:27:10 <nanotube> bitplane: here's the place :)
320 2010-12-01 02:27:15 <doublec> you can download source and clients here btw: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/
321 2010-12-01 02:27:15 <theymos> Ask away. There's nothing at #bitcoin.
322 2010-12-01 02:27:16 <bitplane> cool thanks :)
323 2010-12-01 02:28:13 <bitplane> First dumb question.. what happens if someone sends me a coin and I'm not connected to the network?
324 2010-12-01 02:28:26 <theymos> You'll get it when you connect.
325 2010-12-01 02:28:56 <bitplane> and my wallet file is what says it's me, not the receiving addresses?
326 2010-12-01 02:29:25 <theymos> Your wallet file contains the private keys that allow you to spend any bitcoins that you recieve.
327 2010-12-01 02:29:43 <bitplane> Does my wallet contain actual bitcoins, or is it immutable?
328 2010-12-01 02:29:55 <nanotube> your wallet file contains your private keys, addresses are hashes of your public key counterparts. the keys are what give you ownership of any bitcoins sent to addresses.
329 2010-12-01 02:30:07 <theymos> Just the private keys. Coins don't actually exist in any way -- they're just a series of transactions.
330 2010-12-01 02:30:20 <theymos> Bitcoin has a sort of distributed database. You can see the transactions at http://blockexplorer.com/
331 2010-12-01 02:30:43 <nanotube> bitplane: but in short, you need to keep your wallet both safe, and well backed-up.
332 2010-12-01 02:31:18 <bitplane> can I use the same wallet in multiple places, like running bitcoin --server on my VPS with the same wallet file?
333 2010-12-01 02:31:34 <genjix> so the UK wants to bring in a law giving computer-generated pornographic images of apparent children the same status as child pornography, on the grounds that society should permit no indulgence of paedophilic desires.
334 2010-12-01 02:31:45 <genjix> Because of second life avatars looking like children
335 2010-12-01 02:31:55 <theymos> bitplane: No.
336 2010-12-01 02:31:57 <bitplane> genjix, that's already law here :(
337 2010-12-01 02:32:01 <genjix> child like avatar in second life = child porn? wtf
338 2010-12-01 02:32:04 <nanotube> bitplane: not recommended. otherwise you could accidentally attempt to send the same coins twice... which would be problematic (for you, not the network)
339 2010-12-01 02:32:25 <bill__> there was a story about australia wanting to ban pornography which featured "young-looking" performers for the same reason
340 2010-12-01 02:32:36 <bitplane> genjix, iirc the law is about the "likeness" of a child, cartoon CP is banned
341 2010-12-01 02:33:03 <nanotube> genjix: heh, talk about bs...
342 2010-12-01 02:33:50 <denizzz> <theymos> He sends email from UTC+1. His email to me has always been 8AM-12PM central US time.
343 2010-12-01 02:33:54 <bitplane> http://gallery.bitplane.net/d/681-1/cartoon+porn.png
344 2010-12-01 02:34:01 <denizzz> Satoshi in Europe ?
345 2010-12-01 02:34:19 <theymos> Unknown.
346 2010-12-01 02:34:45 <theymos> It could be that his email provider, gmx, just sends from that.
347 2010-12-01 02:34:54 <doublec> bitplane, I run multiple bitcoin instances on VPS's. I use different wallets and just transfer coins between them when I need too.
348 2010-12-01 02:35:00 <genjix> bitplane: lmao
349 2010-12-01 02:35:14 <bitplane> cool doublec.. is there a way to have it auto-send when generated?
350 2010-12-01 02:35:36 <bitplane> if not, I guess I should request that!
351 2010-12-01 02:35:49 <doublec> no, but there are shell scripts in the forums that do that
352 2010-12-01 02:36:20 <bitplane> last question: how long do I need to leave it running for, on average, and how many fractions of coin does it make at a time?
353 2010-12-01 02:36:31 <doublec> generating on a vps might be frowned upon by the vps operators
354 2010-12-01 02:36:37 <denizzz> bitplane: ooo, forgot about it
355 2010-12-01 02:36:59 <doublec> bitplane, 50 coins when you generate a block. and the time it takes depends on the power of your machine
356 2010-12-01 02:37:13 <theymos> You make 50BTC at a time. The chance of winning 50 BTC depends on your processing speed. You can calculate it (substitute your khash/s):
357 2010-12-01 02:37:23 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 2000
358 2010-12-01 02:37:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 28 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes, and 52 seconds
359 2010-12-01 02:37:24 <jgarzik> bitcoin is great on a VPS, if you use an off-board CPU or GPU miner :)
360 2010-12-01 02:37:33 <doublec> ooh, new difficulty level
361 2010-12-01 02:37:57 <denizzz> Complexity can decrease or increase it only?
362 2010-12-01 02:38:04 <theymos> Both.
363 2010-12-01 02:38:07 <bitplane> wow, and this gets exponentially harder as the coins become more scarce?
364 2010-12-01 02:38:08 <denizzz> ok
365 2010-12-01 02:38:31 <theymos> bitplane: No. A block is created every 10 minutes. The reward per block hashes every 4 years.
366 2010-12-01 02:38:39 <theymos> halves*
367 2010-12-01 02:38:44 <denizzz> bitplane: on bitcoin wiki was chart about it, but site is down now..
368 2010-12-01 02:39:08 <jgarzik> bitplane: the algorithm difficulty is adjusted based on how much the network exceeds 6 blocks / hour
369 2010-12-01 02:39:09 <theymos> http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9992/coins.png
370 2010-12-01 02:39:13 <doublec> bitplane, another option is participating in a 'pooled' miner. Where one instance of bitcoin distributes the generation task amongst a pool of machines and the 50 coins generated is split between the contributers.
371 2010-12-01 02:39:23 <nanotube> theymos: well, there goes my idea of running a node - glibc is too old.
372 2010-12-01 02:39:24 <bitplane> cool
373 2010-12-01 02:39:55 <bitplane> x axis is days, y is blocks?
374 2010-12-01 02:40:35 <theymos> Y axis is total coins in circulation. X is "days from now", where 0 was actually a few months ago. A better chart is on the wiki (down now).
375 2010-12-01 02:41:10 <denizzz> When the site will work will need to ask whether they do backups.
376 2010-12-01 02:41:59 <bitplane> thanks
377 2010-12-01 02:42:11 <canadaduane> I recall that bitcoingateway was going to be re-opened yesterday.  Any news?
378 2010-12-01 02:42:14 <bitplane> one more question: is the free bitcoin site broken?
379 2010-12-01 02:42:15 <theymos> nanotube: Can't you compile it?
380 2010-12-01 02:42:48 <theymos> bitplane: It shouldn't be. https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/ You won't see any transactions until you have all of the blocks, though.
381 2010-12-01 02:43:07 <bitplane> how big are the blocks and how many are there?
382 2010-12-01 02:43:13 <gribble> 94821
383 2010-12-01 02:43:13 <theymos> ;;bc,blocks
384 2010-12-01 02:43:33 <theymos> It shouldn't take more than an hour or two. The number you have is displayed in the Bitcoin UI (lower right).
385 2010-12-01 02:43:53 <bitplane> ah, I see. 67k at the moment
386 2010-12-01 02:43:55 <denizzz> In English the sinewave chart is a "chart" or "graph" or "diagram"?
387 2010-12-01 02:43:59 <nanotube> theymos: guess i'll try that next :)
388 2010-12-01 02:44:18 <JudStephenson> ;;bc,blocks
389 2010-12-01 02:44:19 <gribble> 94821
390 2010-12-01 02:44:25 <bitplane> the line is the graph, the entire thing is the chart which is a subset of diagram
391 2010-12-01 02:44:37 <denizzz> thanks
392 2010-12-01 02:44:48 <bitplane> as in subclass, charts are diagrams which display data
393 2010-12-01 02:45:57 <JudStephenson> anyone know what bc commands gribble supports?
394 2010-12-01 02:46:03 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
395 2010-12-01 02:46:03 <nanotube> ;;apropos bc
396 2010-12-01 02:46:11 <nanotube> JudStephenson: nobody knows better than gribble himself :)
397 2010-12-01 02:46:18 <JudStephenson> haha
398 2010-12-01 02:46:25 <denizzz> why is gribble?
399 2010-12-01 02:46:36 <nanotube> why not?
400 2010-12-01 02:46:37 <nanotube> :)
401 2010-12-01 02:46:55 <doublec> ;;bc,mtgox
402 2010-12-01 02:46:56 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.225,"low":0.2065,"vol":8289,"buy":0.21,"sell":0.2189,"last":0.21}}
403 2010-12-01 02:47:06 <brucewagner> ANOTHER WIN:  I got Linux Mint to accept Bitcoin donations.  ( see http://bitcoinaddress.com )
404 2010-12-01 02:47:19 <nanotube> brucewagner: nice! :)
405 2010-12-01 02:47:50 <nanotube> brucewagner: btw, still no donation? ;_; ;)
406 2010-12-01 02:47:58 <nanotube> denizzz: what did you actually want to ask?
407 2010-12-01 02:48:17 <nanotube> theymos: bah, i need to install boost and libdbd too. heh. onwards...
408 2010-12-01 02:48:18 <doublec> brucewagner, where do they mention bitcoin?
409 2010-12-01 02:48:29 <genjix> http://www.linuxmint.com/donors.php
410 2010-12-01 02:48:30 <theymos> nanotube: I just compiled them into a prefix.
411 2010-12-01 02:48:33 <genjix> its not on their site?
412 2010-12-01 02:48:48 <doublec> brucewagner, http://tinyvid.tv also accepts bitcoin donations. See http://tinyvid.tv/feedback
413 2010-12-01 02:48:54 <denizzz> You're talking about gribble. Who is gribble or what is gribble?
414 2010-12-01 02:48:56 <nanotube> theymos: well, i can apt-get install the dev packages...
415 2010-12-01 02:49:05 <nanotube> ;;version
416 2010-12-01 02:49:06 <gribble> The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1+gribble (2010-10-10T17:52:04-0400).  The newest version available in the gribble git repository is 0.83.4.1+gribble (2010-10-10T17:52:04-0400).
417 2010-12-01 02:49:10 <nanotube> denizzz: gribble is an irc bot
418 2010-12-01 02:49:14 <denizzz> aaa, ok )
419 2010-12-01 02:49:26 <nanotube> :)
420 2010-12-01 02:51:16 <denizzz> nmap of bitcoin.org:
421 2010-12-01 02:51:18 <denizzz> 80/tcp    open     http
422 2010-12-01 02:51:45 <theymos> Try watching a connection with Wireshark. Their TCP behaves strangely.
423 2010-12-01 02:52:12 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
424 2010-12-01 02:52:21 <LobsterMan> err
425 2010-12-01 02:52:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 94822 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 1945 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 29 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 8588.89309733
426 2010-12-01 02:52:24 <theymos> It seems that connections from the outside are sometimes being dropped or delayed a lot.
427 2010-12-01 02:52:43 <denizzz> theymos: yes it is possible to connect to them but it do not reply to query
428 2010-12-01 02:53:18 <denizzz> http query I mean
429 2010-12-01 02:54:27 <genjix> http://localhost:8888/freenet:USK@QX-TZMWd80U8Qv9NHSwOiYAvuu1F6wmMntd2TVBNvzE,3h4k03gALxBp3DV2BMTGw9PQSeaKmIlLGgCHpoOFSCM,AQACAAE/test_art/1/
430 2010-12-01 02:54:33 <genjix> these are sooo cool :)
431 2010-12-01 02:55:10 <denizzz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_management_information_protocol - cmip-man
432 2010-12-01 02:55:32 <denizzz> Never seen before.
433 2010-12-01 02:59:20 <MT`AwAy> [12:52:26] <theymos> It seems that connections from the outside are sometimes being dropped or delayed a lot. <- could be the result of a (D)DoS
434 2010-12-01 03:00:08 <theymos> I don't think so. TCP packets come in fine. It just seems confused -- maybe the httpd has crashed.
435 2010-12-01 03:00:30 <brucewagner> nanotube: I never got your BTC address
436 2010-12-01 03:00:55 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
437 2010-12-01 03:00:55 <nanotube> ;;botsnack
438 2010-12-01 03:00:58 <nanotube> brucewagner: --^ that's mine
439 2010-12-01 03:01:20 <brucewagner> doublec: Email him and tell him to put their new address on their Donate page. (He emailed it to me. It is on http://bitcoinaddress.com if you need it. )
440 2010-12-01 03:02:30 <doublec> brucewagner, ok, thanks
441 2010-12-01 03:06:31 <brucewagner> nanotube: I added you to http://bitcoinaddress.com just now  ;)
442 2010-12-01 03:07:30 <nanotube> heh cool :)
443 2010-12-01 03:09:25 <jgarzik> brucewagner: is bitcoinwatch.com on there somewhere?  </plug>
444 2010-12-01 03:13:08 <brucewagner> ANOTHER WIN:  I got Epic Change to accept Bitcoin donations.  ( see http://bitcoinaddress.com )
445 2010-12-01 03:13:51 <doublec> how do we know the addresses associated with the organisation in that list are actually that organisation?
446 2010-12-01 03:14:23 <MT`AwAy> doublec: only possible if the organisation lists the address on their site
447 2010-12-01 03:14:27 <doublec> unless they mention it on their site, which they don't
448 2010-12-01 03:14:30 <doublec> right
449 2010-12-01 03:15:01 <doublec> Not saying that list organiser is corrupt, but what if they person that the list organiser was liasing with to get them to accept bitcoins just posts their personal bitcoin address
450 2010-12-01 03:15:22 <brucewagner> jgarzik: BitcoinWatch.com is on the Main site... on http://bitcoinme.com under "What is a Bitcoin Worth?"
451 2010-12-01 03:15:30 <jgarzik> groovy
452 2010-12-01 03:16:32 <brucewagner> jgarzik: I put it there since it is informational... (it's not really a merchant)   Wait. It accepts donations!?
453 2010-12-01 03:16:56 <jgarzik> brucewagner: donations accepted, yes
454 2010-12-01 03:17:11 <MT`AwAy> btw I'd like to confirm, bitcoin.org still down?
455 2010-12-01 03:17:31 <nanotube> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
456 2010-12-01 03:17:37 <gribble> It's not just you!
457 2010-12-01 03:17:43 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yep, still down :)
458 2010-12-01 03:17:46 <MT`AwAy> ok
459 2010-12-01 03:18:00 <brucewagner> jgarkiz: is bitcoinwatch.com a business or a non-profit ?
460 2010-12-01 03:18:02 <MT`AwAy> I'll put a forum for those who wants on a different domain, then~
461 2010-12-01 03:18:35 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, .org will probably be up "soon"...
462 2010-12-01 03:18:56 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: someone was talking of a decentralized community for a decentralized network :p
463 2010-12-01 03:19:10 <MT`AwAy> anyway we'll see
464 2010-12-01 03:21:14 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well yea... but ideally what we would have is a forum that auto-syncs between multiple servers.
465 2010-12-01 03:21:26 <nanotube> so if .org is down, people can come over to $otherserver and pick up right where they left off.
466 2010-12-01 03:21:27 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: if you have one, I'll take it
467 2010-12-01 03:21:47 <nanotube> then when it's back up, .org should pull data from $otherserver as well,
468 2010-12-01 03:22:02 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: hehe well, i don't. the idea requires .org forum to also sync
469 2010-12-01 03:22:25 <nanotube> if sync is one-way... then it would suck for people when .org comes back up, and it doesn't have any of the stuff they posted on otherserver.
470 2010-12-01 03:22:51 <MT`AwAy> yep
471 2010-12-01 03:23:11 <MT`AwAy> anyway I just got an empty web hosting at http://bitcoin.in/
472 2010-12-01 03:23:20 <brucewagner> Is there such an auto-mirroring software for SMF ?
473 2010-12-01 03:23:43 <jgarzik> brucewagner: bitcoinwatch is a business, I suppose
474 2010-12-01 03:23:58 <brucewagner> ok  :)
475 2010-12-01 03:24:49 <brucewagner> jgarzik:  Did I miss any info.  I just added it to http://bitcoinaddress.com ...and it's already on the main page of http://bitcoinme.com
476 2010-12-01 03:25:34 <jgarzik> brucewagner: very groovy
477 2010-12-01 03:26:24 <brucewagner> I can donate a server and/or domain name as a mirror of the SMF forum, .org site, etc...  if it would help.
478 2010-12-01 03:27:02 <brucewagner> But is there software that would auto-sync it all easily.... auto-magically...?
479 2010-12-01 03:27:22 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: rsync
480 2010-12-01 03:27:34 <MT`AwAy> for info I also got servers/domains :p
481 2010-12-01 03:27:41 <brucewagner> I suppose that would work fine, right?
482 2010-12-01 03:27:51 <brucewagner> Given the proper permissions?
483 2010-12-01 03:28:16 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: in theory, however mirroring the forum would mean - for example - that you'll know all the emails of all the members of the forum
484 2010-12-01 03:28:19 <nanotube> brucewagner: MT`AwAy: yea, but we'd have to work with whoever's managing the .org site now in order to get that working...
485 2010-12-01 03:28:49 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: in any case if we want it to sync (ie forum sync or anything), we will need help from whoever's managing the .org
486 2010-12-01 03:28:58 <brucewagner> yeah.  I have no interest in knowing anyone's details.
487 2010-12-01 03:29:19 <MT`AwAy> I tried to find something for SMF, but no success yet
488 2010-12-01 03:29:28 <brucewagner> Perhaps I could even give them access to it - without having access to it myself...
489 2010-12-01 03:29:31 <bitplane> how do i force bitcoind to connect?
490 2010-12-01 03:29:34 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: you could also easily alter the local software and steal people's passwords
491 2010-12-01 03:30:01 <Foggymyst> What are the network requirements of the bitcoin client?
492 2010-12-01 03:30:10 <MT`AwAy> ie. requires a lot of trust to allow people to manage a community, not a simple question of mirroring
493 2010-12-01 03:30:18 <denizzz> http://fitnessexpertusa.com/ cool address
494 2010-12-01 03:30:34 <denizzz> (from btc list)
495 2010-12-01 03:30:57 <theymos> Syncing isn't a huge security risk if proper password hashes are being used.
496 2010-12-01 03:31:07 <brucewagner> MT`AwAy:  Yes.  I hear you.   Well, it's up to the community.  Let me know if I can help.   bruce@brucewagner.com    ( I gotta run out the door to dinner! :)
497 2010-12-01 03:31:12 <jgarzik> Foggymyst: not much.  lots of small packets.
498 2010-12-01 03:31:16 <MT`AwAy> :)
499 2010-12-01 03:31:30 <MT`AwAy> brucewagner: I'm helping too (in fact got the domain/forum set up, currently obtaining a SSL certificate)
500 2010-12-01 03:31:39 <Foggymyst> Well, what firewall rules should I make if the server is locked down?"
501 2010-12-01 03:31:48 <jgarzik> Foggymyst: it's fine behind a NAT
502 2010-12-01 03:32:01 <MT`AwAy> opening port 8333 can be a good idea
503 2010-12-01 03:32:10 <Foggymyst> Outbound 8333?
504 2010-12-01 03:32:13 <Foggymyst> Or inbound?
505 2010-12-01 03:32:18 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: both
506 2010-12-01 03:32:39 <denizzz> Foggymyst: 8 outgoing connections on 8333 port you can get in any way
507 2010-12-01 03:32:53 <Foggymyst> Great.
508 2010-12-01 03:32:56 <denizzz> but incoming 8333 port would be good to open
509 2010-12-01 03:33:44 <Kiba> is the site back up yet?
510 2010-12-01 03:34:35 <nanotube> Kiba: just check with isitdown
511 2010-12-01 03:34:40 <nanotube> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
512 2010-12-01 03:34:45 <gribble> It's not just you!
513 2010-12-01 03:35:08 <Kiba> I wanna make an epic battle graphic novel
514 2010-12-01 03:35:25 <denizzz> Has anyone been in the "diaspora"? Conveniently there? Can make a group of bitcoin users for the case of server down?
515 2010-12-01 03:35:38 <nanotube> denizzz: i'm in diaspora
516 2010-12-01 03:35:44 <nanotube> but it's currently closed for new registrations
517 2010-12-01 03:35:58 <nanotube> denizzz: are you in? wanna connect?
518 2010-12-01 03:36:22 <denizzz> nanotube: I am already obtain invite from you, I am from btcex.com :)
519 2010-12-01 03:36:36 <nanotube> denizzz: aaaah ;) cool.
520 2010-12-01 03:36:41 <nanotube> wanna connect?
521 2010-12-01 03:36:55 <nanotube> or it still has not let you in?
522 2010-12-01 03:37:25 <bitplane> i get "bitcoin is not connected", 0 connections. can i force it to connect somehow?
523 2010-12-01 03:37:35 <Foggymyst> So why bitcoin.org down anyways?
524 2010-12-01 03:37:48 <denizzz> I think if they stall for time with the opening of registration then I am can put my diaspora server and connect to their network.
525 2010-12-01 03:38:12 <jgarzik> bitplane: it should be connecting to an IRC server, to obtain addresses of the P2P network
526 2010-12-01 03:38:13 <denizzz> Teasing is not good.
527 2010-12-01 03:38:13 <nanotube> denizzz: yea i was thinking of that, running a bitcoin diaspora pod.
528 2010-12-01 03:38:19 <Kiba> in the 22nd century, humanity and its mechanical/biomechanical offsprings had started work on a massive construction project to build dyson sphere to house and shelter the conciousness of the entire civilization
529 2010-12-01 03:38:49 <bitplane> this irc network?
530 2010-12-01 03:38:53 <Kiba> BUT, on the outset of the solar system, an invasion force had been prepared by an alien intelligent bent on....WAR
531 2010-12-01 03:38:59 <eureka^> wot
532 2010-12-01 03:39:00 <eureka^> oh
533 2010-12-01 03:39:04 <eureka^> damn highlights
534 2010-12-01 03:39:06 <denizzz> nanotube: yes, "pod". This is the same what google wave called federation server, yes?
535 2010-12-01 03:39:25 <denizzz> bitplane: FreeNode
536 2010-12-01 03:39:43 <denizzz> oops
537 2010-12-01 03:40:01 <denizzz> I think you question about THIS network:)
538 2010-12-01 03:40:26 <bitplane> so those long string names in #bitcoin, if i /whois them I can get a connection IP to put in the conf file?
539 2010-12-01 03:40:57 <denizzz> Kiba: Heinlein ?
540 2010-12-01 03:41:04 <theymos> bitplane: Bitcoin connects to #bitcoin on irc.lfnet.org. You can use the -addnode switch to connect directly to a node. -addnode=99.27.237.13 , for example, will connect to me.
541 2010-12-01 03:41:33 <nanotube> denizzz: i think so. diaspora calls them pods :)
542 2010-12-01 03:41:39 <bitplane> cool thanks I'll do that
543 2010-12-01 03:41:44 <denizzz> bitplane: IMHO, you can kickstart bitcoin client without IRC
544 2010-12-01 03:42:07 <denizzz> Need say to client IP addres of any another client
545 2010-12-01 03:42:09 <theymos> Really old versions of Bitcoin used to connect to this network, but they were getting k-lined by some nutcase and we moved to irc.lfnet.org, which is owned by a Bitcoin user.
546 2010-12-01 03:42:28 <Kiba> denizzz: know of any science fiction that called a for a dyson sphere so that an entire civilization can take immortality to the next level.....BUT first they must overcome an enemy bent on wars just for the heck of it?
547 2010-12-01 03:43:00 <bitplane> done, it's connected via theymos. thanks :)
548 2010-12-01 03:43:16 <bitplane> what's the incoming port ID so I can open it on my router?
549 2010-12-01 03:43:24 <theymos> 8333
550 2010-12-01 03:43:57 <denizzz> Kiba: What do you mean?
551 2010-12-01 03:43:59 <bitplane> thanks
552 2010-12-01 03:44:07 <Kiba> denizzz: a plot
553 2010-12-01 03:44:09 <Kiba> like that
554 2010-12-01 03:44:26 <Kiba> dyson sphere's purpose is to store and shelter an entire civilization's conciousness
555 2010-12-01 03:44:41 <jgarzik> immortality is taken to the next level by a fancy vacuum cleaner?
556 2010-12-01 03:45:04 <bitplane> dyson clouds are more likely IMHO
557 2010-12-01 03:45:13 <MT`AwAy> ok, got a ssl certificate
558 2010-12-01 03:45:31 <denizzz> Kiba: you have to use simple english to tell me what you mean. I can understand the language but I do not know the cultural context, so I do not understand what you mean.
559 2010-12-01 03:45:54 <Kiba> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dyson_sphere
560 2010-12-01 03:47:05 <bitplane> what do "blocks" represent? are they transactions?
561 2010-12-01 03:48:09 <Foggymyst> What is currently most needed in the BitCoin ecosphere / community / technology stack?
562 2010-12-01 03:48:15 <theymos> Blocks, and some other data. Check out http://blockexplorer.com
563 2010-12-01 03:48:26 <theymos> Transactions, and some other data, I mean.
564 2010-12-01 03:49:09 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, more money launderers
565 2010-12-01 03:49:15 <bitplane> so that's the entire history for the network? won't that become rather excessive in a few years?
566 2010-12-01 03:49:19 <bitplane> or if it becomes popular
567 2010-12-01 03:49:32 <theymos> bitplane: Only generators need to download it, and spent transactions can be forgotten.
568 2010-12-01 03:49:53 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, are you being serious?
569 2010-12-01 03:50:15 <theymos> It's expected that there will be only a few hundred generators in the future, and they will be really powerful.
570 2010-12-01 03:50:20 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, absolutely
571 2010-12-01 03:50:23 <Kiba> theymos: so why we are not forgetting transaction now?
572 2010-12-01 03:50:41 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, so what do you mean by launderers?
573 2010-12-01 03:50:47 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, but probably better to call them moeny exchangers or something more pc
574 2010-12-01 03:50:53 <theymos> Then I couldn't provide a complete Block Explorer... (Probably for possible debugging.)
575 2010-12-01 03:50:58 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, that was what I was going to say.
576 2010-12-01 03:51:05 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
577 2010-12-01 03:51:11 <gribble> It's not just you!
578 2010-12-01 03:51:21 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, so if I was going to exchange bitcoins for cash I would need an initial amount.
579 2010-12-01 03:51:25 <Kiba> BITCH
580 2010-12-01 03:51:32 <Kiba> SIRUS! WHERE THE FRACK YOU ARE?
581 2010-12-01 03:52:04 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 400
582 2010-12-01 03:52:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 years, 39 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes, and 21 seconds
583 2010-12-01 03:52:14 <bitplane> lol wut
584 2010-12-01 03:52:36 <doublec> generating on a vps is not likely to make you much
585 2010-12-01 03:52:45 <bitplane> this is my crappy laptop
586 2010-12-01 03:52:48 <theymos> Generating is only profitable if you use a GPU.
587 2010-12-01 03:53:02 <Kiba> we need pooled mining!
588 2010-12-01 03:53:08 <doublec> we have one!
589 2010-12-01 03:53:10 <Foggymyst> Kiba, seriously.
590 2010-12-01 03:53:15 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, the problem is finding ways people can get USD and other hard currency to somebody who wants to sell bitcoins
591 2010-12-01 03:53:36 <doublec> currently 21 people connected to my pooled server
592 2010-12-01 03:53:45 <Foggymyst> Doublec, how do you pool?
593 2010-12-01 03:53:56 <doublec> Foggymyst, using puddinpop's pooled server and client
594 2010-12-01 03:53:58 <Foggymyst> MacRohard, because all other payment methods can be charged back, correct?
595 2010-12-01 03:54:15 <theymos> Foggymyst: I would like a site that allows you to find an exchanger near you, and also list yourself as an exchanger. Then everyone can exchange with everyone.
596 2010-12-01 03:54:28 <denizzz> carramba
597 2010-12-01 03:54:28 <MacRohard> Foggymyst, that's the main one
598 2010-12-01 03:54:36 <denizzz> nanotube: What do you think about future of the diaspora? Technically, it seems that it can kill facebook?
599 2010-12-01 03:54:55 <Foggymyst> Doublec, since bitcoin.org is down do you know a location to get the pooled server bins?
600 2010-12-01 03:54:56 <Kiba> Zukernberg donated 200,000 dollars, no?
601 2010-12-01 03:55:01 <doublec> Foggymyst, what platform?
602 2010-12-01 03:55:03 <bd_> denizzz: it won't. facebook's advantage isn't infrastructure or features. It's the userbase.
603 2010-12-01 03:55:11 <Foggymyst> Doublec, Win x64
604 2010-12-01 03:55:21 <nanotube> denizzz: too early to tell. definitely won't 'kill', but it may become a good alternative. :)
605 2010-12-01 03:55:55 <doublec> Foggymyst, http://cd.pn/bitcoin-remote-20101127-win32bin.zip
606 2010-12-01 03:55:56 <MT`AwAy> mh
607 2010-12-01 03:56:10 <Foggymyst> Thanks
608 2010-12-01 03:56:11 <doublec> Foggymyst, to connect to my server if you want to test the remote miner client:
609 2010-12-01 03:56:11 <Kiba> facebook got hundred of programmers don't they?
610 2010-12-01 03:56:21 <denizzz> I am don't use any social networks because they do not allow users to set permissions or ACLs :)
611 2010-12-01 03:56:22 <Kiba> you got 3 dudes who are changing the wrold?
612 2010-12-01 03:56:40 <denizzz> And I am want for diaspora solve my problem
613 2010-12-01 03:56:52 <doublec> Foggymyst, remoteminer -server 69.164.214.82 -address bitcoin_address_to_send_coins_to
614 2010-12-01 03:57:11 <nanotube> denizzz: yea, diaspora will attract the privacy-conscious. :) i hope it'll become good.
615 2010-12-01 03:57:45 <denizzz> Kiba: Probably, facebook code is a php spaghetti code
616 2010-12-01 03:57:50 <theymos> doublec: When the pool generates a block, do you send a share to people who mined for a few days and then left forever?
617 2010-12-01 03:58:04 <doublec> theymos, it distributes only to those who participated in generating that block
618 2010-12-01 03:58:42 <[Noodles]> but its CPU only so far, isn't it?
619 2010-12-01 03:58:47 <Kiba> how do they know if you actually crunching?
620 2010-12-01 03:58:48 <doublec> [Noodles], yes
621 2010-12-01 03:59:12 <doublec> [Noodles], I'm looking at doing an OpenCL client (or modifying an existing one)
622 2010-12-01 03:59:35 <doublec> Kiba, the server knows who is connected and what they are contributing
623 2010-12-01 04:00:02 <doublec> there's a discussion thread in the (currently down) forums about the approach
624 2010-12-01 04:00:06 <[Noodles]> iv got both, ATI and Nvidia running, call me if you need a tester ^.^
625 2010-12-01 04:00:09 <bitplane> some theoretical situations: what happens if people lose their wallets, yet millions of transactions are in those accounts?
626 2010-12-01 04:00:14 <doublec> [Noodles], will do!
627 2010-12-01 04:00:22 <[Noodles]> on win x64 though
628 2010-12-01 04:00:28 <nanotube> bitplane: those bitcoins will be gone for good, then.
629 2010-12-01 04:00:34 <doublec> I don't have a gpu so I'll be testing the opencl stuff using intel's x86 opencl sdk
630 2010-12-01 04:00:41 <bitplane> but the generators need to track those forever?
631 2010-12-01 04:01:29 <bitplane> also what happens if I make a worm that generates blocks? who can stop/punish me or find out who I am?
632 2010-12-01 04:01:31 <[Noodles]> generators wont know, if a wallet is lost, or just offline
633 2010-12-01 04:01:51 <MT`AwAy> bitplane: your blocks won't be accepted
634 2010-12-01 04:01:53 <nanotube> bitplane: same as you make a worm that does something else...
635 2010-12-01 04:01:54 <Kiba> I wanna make a Thai tea brewing machine :D
636 2010-12-01 04:02:04 <bitplane> accepted by who?
637 2010-12-01 04:02:14 <bitplane> if they're valid they're valid right?
638 2010-12-01 04:02:19 <Kiba> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
639 2010-12-01 04:02:20 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, if he makes a worm that 'borgs' unsuspecting computers into generating for him... it would make valid blocks
640 2010-12-01 04:02:25 <gribble> It's not just you!
641 2010-12-01 04:02:43 <nanotube> Kiba: strangle bitcoin.org. it's not gribble's fault. :P
642 2010-12-01 04:03:02 <Kiba> I was just shooting the message, nanotube
643 2010-12-01 04:03:03 <dwdollar1> sirius-m is MIA
644 2010-12-01 04:03:12 <nanotube> mmm
645 2010-12-01 04:03:26 <Kiba> when sirius last spoke?
646 2010-12-01 04:03:29 <nanotube> well, we have our irc :)
647 2010-12-01 04:03:35 <dwdollar1> Sirius_: are you are there?
648 2010-12-01 04:03:43 <gribble> Sirius_ was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Sirius_> https://www.op.fi/media/liitteet?cid=151240134&srcpl=4 example message starting from page 12
649 2010-12-01 04:03:43 <nanotube> ;;seen Sirius_
650 2010-12-01 04:03:53 <nanotube> heh
651 2010-12-01 04:03:58 <Kiba> ;;seen Satoshi
652 2010-12-01 04:03:59 <gribble> I have not seen Satoshi.
653 2010-12-01 04:03:59 <nanotube> maybe he's been on with a different nick too
654 2010-12-01 04:04:04 <Kiba> DAMN.
655 2010-12-01 04:04:29 <bitplane> is that the website admin?
656 2010-12-01 04:04:38 <doublec> we should change the topic to say, yes, bitcoin.org is down, thanks for asking
657 2010-12-01 04:04:39 <nanotube> bitplane: presumably :)
658 2010-12-01 04:04:48 <doublec> and while we're at it, update it to say 0.3.17 is released
659 2010-12-01 04:04:56 <nanotube> doublec: haha well, the only person who can do that seems to be away atm
660 2010-12-01 04:05:07 <doublec> nanotube, probably working on getting bitcoin.org up ;)
661 2010-12-01 04:05:12 <bitplane> i recommend using sf for hosting, although slow and a bit crap it's bigger than one person
662 2010-12-01 04:05:28 <nanotube> bitplane: i just suggested the same thing earlier :)
663 2010-12-01 04:05:35 <Kiba> what we should do is setup federated hosting for bitcoin
664 2010-12-01 04:05:40 <nanotube> they have large capacity.
665 2010-12-01 04:05:42 <MT`AwAy> https://bitcoin.in/forum/ <- for those who want I've just setup a board on a ssl domain quickly (if you are interested, tell me what kind of boards you need)
666 2010-12-01 04:06:22 <Kiba> The way of the wusses
667 2010-12-01 04:06:52 <Kiba> while we're at it, let make a bitDNS!
668 2010-12-01 04:06:56 <Kiba> I pledge 5 BTC
669 2010-12-01 04:07:11 <Kiba> total expense nearly a dollar today
670 2010-12-01 04:07:17 <Kiba> err
671 2010-12-01 04:07:23 <Kiba> projectwonderful's expense nearly a dollar today
672 2010-12-01 04:07:28 <Kiba> nope.
673 2010-12-01 04:07:31 <Kiba> just .23
674 2010-12-01 04:07:33 <nanotube> i did some googling, there doesn't seem to be a distributed forum... but we could just go for usenet.
675 2010-12-01 04:07:41 <Kiba> 11 clicks, .18%
676 2010-12-01 04:07:54 <doublec> google groups maybe
677 2010-12-01 04:08:01 <nanotube> is there a bitcoin usenet group?
678 2010-12-01 04:08:07 <Kiba> nanotube: how easy do you think to extract forum username, password, and post?
679 2010-12-01 04:08:22 <nanotube> Kiba: extract from where?
680 2010-12-01 04:08:27 <Kiba> the forum database
681 2010-12-01 04:08:38 <bitplane> password from smf?
682 2010-12-01 04:08:40 <nanotube> if you had access to the database - easy :)
683 2010-12-01 04:08:42 <Kiba> if we're going to move to a distributed forum system
684 2010-12-01 04:08:48 <bitplane> should be salted shouldn't it?
685 2010-12-01 04:09:01 <nanotube> yes, we can move the salted pwds around, though.
686 2010-12-01 04:09:16 <nanotube> we don't need to move the cleartext
687 2010-12-01 04:10:03 <Kiba> distributed forum...and passwords..
688 2010-12-01 04:10:03 <theymos> Xunie: You there?
689 2010-12-01 04:10:53 <Kiba> it would be an interesting project to work on, nanotube
690 2010-12-01 04:11:02 <MT`AwAy> [14:08:09] <Kiba> nanotube: how easy do you think to extract forum username, password, and post? <- problem is sync should work both ways, what do you do if you have same login on both forums, but not same email/pass ?
691 2010-12-01 04:11:22 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yes, sync should work both ways. :)
692 2010-12-01 04:11:48 <Kiba> each server would have its own copy of database?
693 2010-12-01 04:11:55 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: that's the idea
694 2010-12-01 04:12:12 <Kiba> you could have one server manages registration
695 2010-12-01 04:12:40 <Kiba> and if that server goes down, it will switch to another server
696 2010-12-01 04:12:57 <bitplane> simple solution: create a backup job that writes to incremental .sql files, tgz them, encrypt them, then rsync that directory off to several other untrusted servers
697 2010-12-01 04:13:44 <bitplane> if things break, you have multiple backups and a small number of trusted community elders have the keys to unlock the database
698 2010-12-01 04:13:45 <Kiba> which is all well until the server is fried.. It's backed up but we have no where to communicate
699 2010-12-01 04:14:07 <theymos> We seem to be communicating right now...
700 2010-12-01 04:14:16 <Kiba> well...
701 2010-12-01 04:14:19 <Kiba> that's not what I mena
702 2010-12-01 04:14:25 <nanotube> haha
703 2010-12-01 04:14:33 <theymos> If bitcoin.org needs to move permanantly, Satoshi can issue a network alert.
704 2010-12-01 04:14:36 <bitplane> hrm in that case yeah, you'd need a failover node
705 2010-12-01 04:15:16 <nanotube> i have just created http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoin-discussion
706 2010-12-01 04:15:22 <nanotube> anyone who cares to, feel free to join :)
707 2010-12-01 04:15:39 <MT`AwAy> for info my web hosting is failover, if a node goes down, the sites hosted there are hosted from another node automatically (using realtime filesystem/sql backups)
708 2010-12-01 04:15:40 <Kiba> so this bitDNS idea...
709 2010-12-01 04:15:43 <Foggymyst> Heh, where is the main forum for discussion going to be?
710 2010-12-01 04:16:33 <Foggymyst> It seems like google or some reliable third party would be the best solution
711 2010-12-01 04:16:40 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: what about https://bitcoin.in/forum/ ?
712 2010-12-01 04:16:55 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 900
713 2010-12-01 04:16:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 900 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 11 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes, and 49 seconds
714 2010-12-01 04:16:57 <Foggymyst> That site is not available for me.
715 2010-12-01 04:17:08 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: i see you joined - nice. :)
716 2010-12-01 04:17:09 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 300
717 2010-12-01 04:17:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 years, 34 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 32 minutes, and 28 seconds
718 2010-12-01 04:17:30 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: and you left... heh
719 2010-12-01 04:17:43 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 5000
720 2010-12-01 04:17:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 11 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 31 minutes, and 56 seconds
721 2010-12-01 04:17:54 <theymos> bitplane: Odds are better than the lottery, at least.
722 2010-12-01 04:17:56 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: ?
723 2010-12-01 04:18:05 <MT`AwAy> I didn't leave
724 2010-12-01 04:18:15 <nanotube> oh it shows one member... maybe bug? let me refresh
725 2010-12-01 04:18:19 <bitplane> let's try 10m!
726 2010-12-01 04:18:23 <bitplane> ;;bc,calc 10000
727 2010-12-01 04:18:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes, and 58 seconds
728 2010-12-01 04:18:24 <MT`AwAy> I see 3
729 2010-12-01 04:18:28 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: oh there you are. and Foggymyst :)
730 2010-12-01 04:18:33 <Foggymyst> How many coins does one block give?
731 2010-12-01 04:18:33 <nanotube> great. we're moving right along. :)
732 2010-12-01 04:18:40 <bitplane> 50 apparently
733 2010-12-01 04:18:40 <theymos> Foggymyst: 50
734 2010-12-01 04:18:41 <nanotube> doublec: feel free to join the googlegroup :)
735 2010-12-01 04:18:44 <nanotube> Foggymyst: currently 50
736 2010-12-01 04:18:45 <Foggymyst> Ah, ok.
737 2010-12-01 04:18:52 <Foggymyst> Thank you.
738 2010-12-01 04:19:03 <theymos> bitplane: ArtForz has 8 Gh/s.
739 2010-12-01 04:19:04 <Foggymyst> nanotube: I just want a place to discuss bitcoin that is simple and reliable.
740 2010-12-01 04:19:23 <bitplane> how fast is the GPU client?
741 2010-12-01 04:19:26 <nanotube> Foggymyst: well, irc is one such place ;) i hope the google group will become good for that as well.
742 2010-12-01 04:19:28 <Foggymyst> theymos: Is that a record?
743 2010-12-01 04:19:31 <nanotube> bitplane: depends on your gpu.
744 2010-12-01 04:19:41 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 75000000
745 2010-12-01 04:19:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 7 minutes and 42 seconds
746 2010-12-01 04:19:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 70000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 8 minutes and 15 seconds
747 2010-12-01 04:19:52 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 70000000
748 2010-12-01 04:19:54 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: for info on bitcoin.in I'm forcing SSL
749 2010-12-01 04:20:00 <theymos> Foggymyst: He has more than anyone, if that's what you mean. He has lots of GPUs.
750 2010-12-01 04:20:16 <Foggymyst> What is a Gh/s?
751 2010-12-01 04:20:18 <denizzz> <Kiba> nanotube: how easy do you think to extract forum username, password, and post?
752 2010-12-01 04:20:22 <nanotube> m, so average hash power of the network was about 60ghps
753 2010-12-01 04:20:29 <nanotube> Foggymyst: giga hash per second
754 2010-12-01 04:20:35 <Kiba> denizzz: what about it?
755 2010-12-01 04:20:39 <denizzz> username and password should be stored in krb5 key server
756 2010-12-01 04:20:48 <Kiba> what da?
757 2010-12-01 04:20:52 <MT`AwAy> lol
758 2010-12-01 04:21:03 <denizzz> and any number of forums, pop3 servers, http cabinets may be connected to them
759 2010-12-01 04:21:17 <theymos> ;;bc,calc 8000000
760 2010-12-01 04:21:18 <Foggymyst> so a gigahash is a billion hash a second?
761 2010-12-01 04:21:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 hour, 12 minutes, and 16 seconds
762 2010-12-01 04:21:19 <bitplane> so... who's using a GPU client, and how fast is it going?
763 2010-12-01 04:21:28 <jgarzik> many.  fast.
764 2010-12-01 04:21:29 <nanotube> Foggymyst: yes
765 2010-12-01 04:21:33 <Foggymyst> Curious.
766 2010-12-01 04:21:34 <MT`AwAy> Foggymyst: 1Gh/s = 1000Mh/s
767 2010-12-01 04:21:36 <denizzz> Or are you talking about?
768 2010-12-01 04:21:46 <nanotube> bitplane: depends on gpu. an ati 5970 can do 600mhps or so.
769 2010-12-01 04:22:02 <bitplane> wow nice
770 2010-12-01 04:22:04 <[Noodles]> my HD5850 does ~300Mhs
771 2010-12-01 04:22:05 <doublec> nanotube, what's the link to the group?
772 2010-12-01 04:22:12 <denizzz> Can someone owns a computer parts warehouse?
773 2010-12-01 04:22:22 <denizzz> with many motherboards and GPUs?
774 2010-12-01 04:22:22 <nanotube> denizzz: http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoin-discussion
775 2010-12-01 04:22:31 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 22000
776 2010-12-01 04:22:32 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 22000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 32 seconds
777 2010-12-01 04:22:46 <denizzz> nanotube: google is evil!
778 2010-12-01 04:22:57 <Kiba> evil? You're evil!
779 2010-12-01 04:23:04 <Foggymyst> nanotube: Where is the GPU binary?
780 2010-12-01 04:23:07 <denizzz> Kiba: why?
781 2010-12-01 04:23:10 <nanotube> denizzz: it has its bad sides... but it sure is fast and has nice uptime. :)
782 2010-12-01 04:23:30 <nanotube> Foggymyst: there are a couple github repositories with a couple miners. there's m0mchil and diablo
783 2010-12-01 04:23:31 <doublec> 22000 khash is what the pooled miner is currently doing
784 2010-12-01 04:23:36 <nanotube> try googling, since forum is down :)
785 2010-12-01 04:23:43 <nanotube> doublec: oh pretty nice :)
786 2010-12-01 04:24:00 <denizzz> nanotube: One day it will break and the whole world will howl!
787 2010-12-01 04:24:16 <MT`AwAy> my miner on 6 servers is doing 35Mh/s
788 2010-12-01 04:24:18 <nanotube> denizzz: well, when it does, others will pick up.
789 2010-12-01 04:24:38 <doublec> it peaked at 60,000 but some people have left
790 2010-12-01 04:24:54 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 60000
791 2010-12-01 04:24:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 60000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 6 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes, and 39 seconds
792 2010-12-01 04:24:58 <nanotube> doublec: you should set up a webpage for your pooled miner. :)
793 2010-12-01 04:25:04 <doublec> nanotube, good idea!
794 2010-12-01 04:25:27 <nanotube> it would have links to the source/binaries, some simple howtos, etc.
795 2010-12-01 04:25:37 <nanotube> that'd get more people in
796 2010-12-01 04:25:46 <doublec> and do a javascript remote client so people visiting the page contribute khashs ;)
797 2010-12-01 04:25:52 <theymos> doublec: Is there a standalone miner so I don't have to replace my trusted Bitcoin with an untrusted version?
798 2010-12-01 04:25:53 <nanotube> doublec: haha
799 2010-12-01 04:25:54 <bitplane> can the gpu and cpu clients run together on the same host?
800 2010-12-01 04:25:54 <doublec> theymos, yes the remote miner is standalone
801 2010-12-01 04:25:55 <MT`AwAy> theymos: 0.3.17 contains getwork
802 2010-12-01 04:25:58 <doublec> it doesn't touch your wallet or existing bitcoin daemon
803 2010-12-01 04:26:03 <Kiba> theymos: have you ever received a reply from Satoshi ever?
804 2010-12-01 04:26:10 <theymos> Kiba: yes.
805 2010-12-01 04:26:18 <Kiba> cool
806 2010-12-01 04:26:38 <Kiba> any reply on the server issue?
807 2010-12-01 04:26:51 <theymos> doublec: Remoteminer.exe uses CPU? I dont' have a suitible GPU.
808 2010-12-01 04:27:25 <doublec> theymos, yes it uses cpu only
809 2010-12-01 04:28:43 <doublec> theymos, remoteminer.exe -address <your bitcoin address> -server 69.164.214.82
810 2010-12-01 04:28:46 <doublec> to connect to the pool
811 2010-12-01 04:29:00 <bitplane> haha, oh wow.. i just had a crazy idea
812 2010-12-01 04:29:09 <MT`AwAy> bitplane: ?
813 2010-12-01 04:29:19 <bitplane> does webgl support shaders?
814 2010-12-01 04:29:26 <doublec> yes it does
815 2010-12-01 04:29:31 <Foggymyst> who is the server?
816 2010-12-01 04:29:41 <bitplane> i wonder if you could have a pixel on websites that generates hashes
817 2010-12-01 04:29:47 <doublec> Foggymyst, the server is running on my vps
818 2010-12-01 04:29:56 <Foggymyst> doublec: VPS?
819 2010-12-01 04:30:06 <doublec> Virtual Private Server
820 2010-12-01 04:30:09 <Foggymyst> Ah, roger.
821 2010-12-01 04:30:50 <doublec> bitplane, there's been some discussion about supporting opencl in the browser
822 2010-12-01 04:30:58 <bitplane> hmm or a flash client that somehow raeps video cards
823 2010-12-01 04:31:31 <Foggymyst> doublec: And where do you get a copy of the remoteserver?
824 2010-12-01 04:31:43 <bitplane> no hw acceleration in flash apart from video though, so may mean cleverly manipulating pixels in some way
825 2010-12-01 04:32:01 <doublec> Foggymyst, the binary is in that archive I linked earlier
826 2010-12-01 04:32:03 <theymos> doublec: Your pool has my amazing 800 kh/s now! A "minimize to tray" option would be nice.
827 2010-12-01 04:32:08 <doublec> Foggymyst, just run bitcoind
828 2010-12-01 04:32:14 <doublec> theymos, thanks :)
829 2010-12-01 04:32:27 <Foggymyst> doublec: Ahhh, thank you for the explantion.
830 2010-12-01 04:32:31 <doublec> 800-1000 seems to be the average contribution
831 2010-12-01 04:32:37 <doublec> Foggymyst, do you want the link to the source?
832 2010-12-01 04:32:41 <nanotube> bitplane: haha, flash /already/ rapes video cards. nothing new there :D
833 2010-12-01 04:32:49 <Foggymyst> Sure
834 2010-12-01 04:33:09 <doublec> Foggymyst, http://cd.pn/bitcoin-remote-20101127-src.zip
835 2010-12-01 04:33:25 <doublec> Foggymyst, that's the original source from the forum post by puddinpop
836 2010-12-01 04:33:34 <doublec> it needs some tweaks to build
837 2010-12-01 04:34:41 <nanotube> doublec: make a github repo! :)
838 2010-12-01 04:34:54 <doublec> nanotube, when the forum's come up I'll ask puddinpop about it
839 2010-12-01 04:34:54 <Kiba> The Rape of GPU
840 2010-12-01 04:34:56 <bitplane> crazier idea: an iPhone / Android client which you put into a really cool and completely free game
841 2010-12-01 04:35:17 <bitplane> get 1M+ active users and harvest their CPUs
842 2010-12-01 04:35:37 <nanotube> doublec: does puddinpop have a git repo of this himself somewhere?
843 2010-12-01 04:35:43 <doublec> it would probably be better long term to write a pooled miner based on getwork so no changes need to be made to the bitcoin server
844 2010-12-01 04:35:48 <doublec> nanotube, not that I know of
845 2010-12-01 04:35:58 <denizzz> What GPU is most profitable for generation?
846 2010-12-01 04:36:03 <nanotube> doublec: mm ic... well iirc he does show up on irc here once in a while as well.
847 2010-12-01 04:36:10 <Kiba> 5970s?
848 2010-12-01 04:36:14 <denizzz> I'm ready to go to the store right now
849 2010-12-01 04:36:45 <bitplane> I already have 16,000 active Android devices running my software
850 2010-12-01 04:36:47 <nanotube> denizzz: cost per Mhps is possibly 5770. max total mhps is probably 5970. iirc. best to double-check with people who run the gen.
851 2010-12-01 04:36:49 <denizzz> what about CUDA?
852 2010-12-01 04:37:03 <[Noodles]> forget about cuda
853 2010-12-01 04:37:04 <nanotube> denizzz: nvidia's integer performance is much worse than ati.
854 2010-12-01 04:37:26 <denizzz> heh... ati do not like linux x11
855 2010-12-01 04:37:39 <Kiba> someday, ATI will notice a million dollars of sale comes from GPU units..
856 2010-12-01 04:37:41 <Kiba> err
857 2010-12-01 04:37:41 <[Noodles]> if its for mining coins, go for ati
858 2010-12-01 04:37:46 <Kiba> bitcoin mining
859 2010-12-01 04:39:18 <denizzz> $617 2Gb <PCI-E> DDR-5 Sapphire <ATI RADEON HD5970> (RTL) DualDVI+MiniDP+Crossfire
860 2010-12-01 04:39:40 <denizzz> This will never pay for itself I think :)
861 2010-12-01 04:40:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 16 hours, 3 minutes, and 45 seconds
862 2010-12-01 04:40:01 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 600000
863 2010-12-01 04:40:14 <[Noodles]> gtx260 ~45Mhs@100Watt, HD5570 ~64Mhs@50Watt
864 2010-12-01 04:40:15 <CyanDynamo> getting a new gpu just for bitcoin is foolish, i think
865 2010-12-01 04:40:30 <nanotube> denizzz: with a 5970, you get about 600mhps, which gives you a block every 16 hours or so.
866 2010-12-01 04:40:40 <denizzz> 50 BTC = $10, yes?
867 2010-12-01 04:41:03 <nanotube> yes, $11, at current mtgox price. was $14 just yesterday hehe
868 2010-12-01 04:41:17 <Kiba> mtgox should like to functulate a lot
869 2010-12-01 04:41:23 <nanotube> so you need about 61 blocks to make the 610 bucks back.
870 2010-12-01 04:41:31 <gribble> 40.6666666667
871 2010-12-01 04:41:31 <nanotube> ;;math calc 61*16/24
872 2010-12-01 04:41:40 <nanotube> so 40 days to make the $600 back
873 2010-12-01 04:41:47 <nanotube> assuming price, and difficulty, stays the same.
874 2010-12-01 04:42:09 <djoot> and assumption, as we all know, is the brother of all fuckups
875 2010-12-01 04:42:13 <nanotube> 1.3 months - not too bad.
876 2010-12-01 04:42:33 <Kiba> ArtForz obviously want higher price
877 2010-12-01 04:42:33 <nanotube> djoot: haha true. price could go up next week, and it could drop down to 15 days haha
878 2010-12-01 04:42:47 <Kiba> but he's too lazy to spend anything on the bitcoin economy
879 2010-12-01 04:43:14 <nanotube> Kiba: you mean, $20k usd worth of hardware is not enough of a spending on bitcoin economy? ...
880 2010-12-01 04:43:35 <bitplane> how much in electricity bill for running it for 40 days?
881 2010-12-01 04:43:46 <nanotube> bitplane: depends on what your price per kwh is
882 2010-12-01 04:43:54 <Kiba> he's depressing the price
883 2010-12-01 04:44:22 <Foggymyst> Is there a Windows binary for GPU processing?
884 2010-12-01 04:44:27 <Foggymyst> I ask about binaries a lot. ;)
885 2010-12-01 04:44:38 <nanotube> iirc there was posted on the forum... which is down...
886 2010-12-01 04:45:01 <djoot> I had free electricity until a few months back, too bad I had to move...
887 2010-12-01 04:45:07 <nanotube> heh
888 2010-12-01 04:45:15 <jgarzik> go solar :)
889 2010-12-01 04:46:11 <Foggymyst> Man, the forum being down is a pain in the ass. =)
890 2010-12-01 04:46:22 <nanotube> jgarzik: hehe yea. but that still has a cost - if you aren't using it, you'd be pushing it back to the grid and getting $$
891 2010-12-01 04:46:47 <Kiba> if the forum isn't down, I'll have the most posts of any forum members
892 2010-12-01 04:47:02 <jgarzik> $595 for Kyocera 235W, 7.89A, 29.8V
893 2010-12-01 04:47:12 <Kiba> and November forum records  will be even harder to break
894 2010-12-01 04:47:21 <bitplane> ;; math calc 16 *600000*3600
895 2010-12-01 04:47:21 <gribble> 34560000000
896 2010-12-01 04:47:55 <bitplane> ;; math calc 34560000000 / 16000
897 2010-12-01 04:47:55 <gribble> 2160000
898 2010-12-01 04:48:30 <nanotube> bitplane: what are you trying to find?
899 2010-12-01 04:48:31 <[Noodles]> Foggymyst: here's a mirror of m0mchil's OpenCL win-binary http://bitlex.co.cc/files/, source is https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm
900 2010-12-01 04:48:44 <bitplane> I have 16,000 android devices running my code
901 2010-12-01 04:49:02 <[Noodles]> and it's http://bitlex.co.cc/files/poclbm_py2exe_20101126.7z
902 2010-12-01 04:49:08 <nanotube> ah... how much hps do you think an android can do?
903 2010-12-01 04:49:11 <bitplane> mostly my apps run for a couple of mins at a time
904 2010-12-01 04:49:12 <Kiba> bitplane: what your android app do?
905 2010-12-01 04:49:23 <nanotube> (and how much do you think the users will appreciate their battery being drained :) )
906 2010-12-01 04:49:30 <bitplane> main one is a weather app, 11,000 users
907 2010-12-01 04:49:36 <Kiba> dpm
908 2010-12-01 04:49:43 <Kiba> t drain your user's battery
909 2010-12-01 04:49:46 <bitplane> exactly... how many hashes is a reasonable number
910 2010-12-01 04:49:52 <Kiba> if I were me, I would make bitcoin as a micropayment...
911 2010-12-01 04:50:02 <Kiba> system for a game
912 2010-12-01 04:50:28 <bitplane> that's my thinking, I could calculate aggressively on phones which are charging
913 2010-12-01 04:50:37 <nanotube> dunno... what kind of cpu is there in an android? as an out-of-my-behind estimate, you could probably get like 50khps or something on one
914 2010-12-01 04:51:05 <Kiba> PITIFUL
915 2010-12-01 04:51:06 <bitplane> mine has a 1ghz snapdragon
916 2010-12-01 04:51:20 <Kiba> forgetitaboutit
917 2010-12-01 04:51:27 <nanotube> bitplane: well, maybe 150 khps then :)
918 2010-12-01 04:51:39 <nanotube> my 1.6ghz netbook does about 400
919 2010-12-01 04:51:59 <[Noodles]> my 1GHz PIII does 250
920 2010-12-01 04:52:00 <nanotube> but i dunno anything about smartphone cpus...
921 2010-12-01 04:52:09 <bitplane> 10 seconds each for 11,000 users, maybe launched once a day each?
922 2010-12-01 04:52:58 <bitplane> or make a quality free game
923 2010-12-01 04:53:48 <nanotube> bitplane: well... 86400 seconds in a day... and your userbase generates for 110000 seconds a day total
924 2010-12-01 04:54:01 <bitplane> at 10 seconds a day I'd need 8,640 users to get a day's worth
925 2010-12-01 04:54:07 <theymos> You might make "drains CPU power" an alternative to paying for an app.
926 2010-12-01 04:54:44 <bitplane> but say it was a popular game with 100,000 users who expect the battery drain, and it was addictive enough so people played it regularly
927 2010-12-01 04:54:45 <nanotube> so if the average smartphone does (generously speaking) 200 khps... your userbase is equivalent to 110000/86400*200 continuous khps
928 2010-12-01 04:54:53 <gribble> 254.62962963
929 2010-12-01 04:54:53 <nanotube> ;;math calc 110000/86400*200
930 2010-12-01 04:55:12 <nanotube> so your total smartphone userbase will give you the equivalent of 254 khps
931 2010-12-01 04:55:15 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 254
932 2010-12-01 04:55:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 254 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 years, 17 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 33 minutes, and 9 seconds
933 2010-12-01 04:55:23 <nanotube> haha
934 2010-12-01 04:55:30 <Kiba> forgetitaboutit!
935 2010-12-01 04:55:30 <nanotube> so not worth it. so not worth it.
936 2010-12-01 04:55:40 <bitplane> current total users. i only developed apps for 4 weeks a few months back
937 2010-12-01 04:55:46 <Kiba> you could make your users pay for game objects in bitcoin
938 2010-12-01 04:55:48 <bitplane> http://bitplane.net/projects/android/
939 2010-12-01 04:56:19 <nanotube> bitplane: if you could generate continously when phone is charging, maybe you can have 8hr/day generation per unit
940 2010-12-01 04:56:43 <bitplane> hehe that would be evil behaviour, I wouldn't do that
941 2010-12-01 04:56:58 <nanotube> 28800 seconds per day per unit... so that'd be 2880 times more than before.
942 2010-12-01 04:57:08 <gribble> 731520
943 2010-12-01 04:57:08 <nanotube> ;;math calc 2880*254
944 2010-12-01 04:57:21 <denizzz> doublec: generator only works on windows?
945 2010-12-01 04:57:24 <djoot> evil? how so? :)
946 2010-12-01 04:57:24 <nanotube> just a bit more than one ati 5970 :)
947 2010-12-01 04:57:31 <djoot> and define evil :)
948 2010-12-01 04:57:43 <bitplane> evil because you're running background processes and bloating users phones
949 2010-12-01 04:57:56 <djoot> I thought you were responding to Kiba
950 2010-12-01 04:57:59 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 73150
951 2010-12-01 04:58:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 73150 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes, and 7 seconds
952 2010-12-01 04:58:05 <nanotube> djoot: use up other people's power without their consent? generate extra heat, especially while recharging already generates heat, thus reducing lifetime of device?
953 2010-12-01 04:58:07 <bitplane> if it's happening while the game/app is running, users can't complain; they downloaded a closed source app, wtf did they expect?
954 2010-12-01 04:58:14 <Kiba> STILL not worth it
955 2010-12-01 04:58:26 <nanotube> Kiba: you missed a digit
956 2010-12-01 04:58:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 731520 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 13 hours, 10 minutes, and 29 seconds
957 2010-12-01 04:58:33 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 731520
958 2010-12-01 04:58:38 <Kiba> ;;bc,calc 731520
959 2010-12-01 04:58:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 731520 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 13 hours, 10 minutes, and 29 seconds