1 2010-12-06 00:06:13 <alex5771_> cool
  2 2010-12-06 00:08:26 <alex5771_> is it me or are Russians somewhat overly represented in this whole BTC business?
  3 2010-12-06 00:23:59 <OneFixt> ooh, ??% of 1337 H 42
  4 2010-12-06 00:44:31 <alex5771_> i am reading about some scripting in Bitcoin system what is it?
  5 2010-12-06 00:46:35 <Kiba> famous free software advocate accept bitcoin!
  6 2010-12-06 00:46:39 <Kiba> alex5771_: extensions
  7 2010-12-06 00:48:41 <tcatm> alex5771_: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=195.msg1611#msg1611
  8 2010-12-06 00:50:15 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
  9 2010-12-06 00:50:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 95854 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 913 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 10 hours, 55 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11496.35898369
 10 2010-12-06 00:51:03 <brocktice> .awat
 11 2010-12-06 00:51:07 <brocktice> sorry
 12 2010-12-06 00:51:11 <brocktice> poor alignment FTL
 13 2010-12-06 00:51:19 <brocktice> WTF, difficulty?
 14 2010-12-06 00:51:25 <brocktice> I thought it was leveling off there, silly me.
 15 2010-12-06 00:52:08 <OneFixt> better take advantage of those falling prices before the diff change hits =)
 16 2010-12-06 00:52:18 <brocktice> OneFixt: I doubt the diff has much influence
 17 2010-12-06 00:52:37 <brocktice> Plot price against diff the last month
 18 2010-12-06 00:52:50 <brocktice> or two
 19 2010-12-06 00:52:59 <OneFixt> diff raises the minimum cost, but price will often go above what it should temporarily
 20 2010-12-06 00:53:19 <brocktice> Price is way, way above the cost of mining right now
 21 2010-12-06 00:53:24 <tcatm> Anyone here knows how to develop android applications?
 22 2010-12-06 00:53:28 <OneFixt> yes that's true
 23 2010-12-06 00:53:30 <brocktice> tcatm: barely
 24 2010-12-06 00:53:35 <brocktice> tcatm: I have a few on the market
 25 2010-12-06 00:53:49 <tcatm> Do you know how bindService() is supposed to work?
 26 2010-12-06 00:53:53 <brocktice> ugh no
 27 2010-12-06 00:53:56 <brocktice> I never messed with services
 28 2010-12-06 00:54:00 <brocktice> didn't have time to get into them
 29 2010-12-06 00:54:04 <brocktice> I really need to though
 30 2010-12-06 00:54:07 <brocktice> sorry :(
 31 2010-12-06 00:54:42 <tcatm> I spent a whole day trying to get it working and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.
 32 2010-12-06 00:55:15 <brocktice> try stackoverflow?
 33 2010-12-06 00:55:57 <tcatm> found similiar problems there, the solutions didn't work either.
 34 2010-12-06 00:57:07 <tcatm> Would you use something different for Class that will talk to bitcoind via json-rpc?
 35 2010-12-06 00:58:44 <brocktice> tcatm: Sorry, don't know. Like I said, I only know it barely.
 36 2010-12-06 00:58:52 <brocktice> Enough to write a simple GUI
 37 2010-12-06 00:59:11 <brocktice> I wasn't sure what level you were asking at
 38 2010-12-06 00:59:51 <tcatm> mkay
 39 2010-12-06 01:12:34 <anarchyx> im drunk like a mofo
 40 2010-12-06 01:12:54 <anarchyx> good party tonight lol
 41 2010-12-06 01:13:09 <anarchyx> i went to this gay bar and all the girls were interested
 42 2010-12-06 01:13:24 <anarchyx> real girls
 43 2010-12-06 01:13:26 <anarchyx> for the record :)
 44 2010-12-06 01:13:37 <anarchyx> ok i gotta stop typing or i will regret it in the morning
 45 2010-12-06 01:14:28 <lolcat> anarchyx: How do you know they were real?
 46 2010-12-06 01:17:14 <brocktice> anarchyx: lol
 47 2010-12-06 02:03:47 <Demoted_> whats a quick and easy way to get bitcoins?
 48 2010-12-06 02:03:52 <Demoted_> a survey site or something?
 49 2010-12-06 02:04:02 <lolcat> Demoted_: female?
 50 2010-12-06 02:04:23 <Demoted_> lol no
 51 2010-12-06 02:04:32 <lolcat> Then I guess you could buy some?
 52 2010-12-06 02:04:39 <Demoted_> argh
 53 2010-12-06 02:05:09 <lolcat> But there is a survey site somewhere
 54 2010-12-06 02:05:18 <lolcat> Demoted_: What do you need bitcoins for?
 55 2010-12-06 02:05:26 <nelisky> Demoted_: yeah, us males are limited to buying (quick and easy), mining (not quick nor easy) or working for them (not quick, might be easy)
 56 2010-12-06 02:05:45 <nelisky> Demoted_: also scamming others, it seems, guess that's not quick though
 57 2010-12-06 02:06:02 <nelisky> Demoted_: and can be included in the work
 58 2010-12-06 02:06:19 <lolcat> How do they scam others?
 59 2010-12-06 02:06:34 <lolcat> What should I be aware of?
 60 2010-12-06 02:06:53 <Demoted_> oh i mistyped
 61 2010-12-06 02:06:56 <Demoted_> i'm actually a chick
 62 2010-12-06 02:06:58 <nelisky> lolcat: don't know, but I do have this quick way of getting 1000 bitcoins, I'll send you the instructions for just 10
 63 2010-12-06 02:07:03 <nelisky> think of all the profit
 64 2010-12-06 02:07:33 <lolcat> Demoted_: Adress?
 65 2010-12-06 02:07:41 <lolcat> nelisky*
 66 2010-12-06 02:08:05 <nelisky> lolcat: now I'll never get this smile off my face
 67 2010-12-06 02:08:07 <nelisky> :)
 68 2010-12-06 02:08:31 <lolcat> Demoted_: I can tell you how to get bitcoins, just send me 10 ;)
 69 2010-12-06 02:08:35 <[Noodles]> lol
 70 2010-12-06 02:09:10 <nelisky> lolcat: though asking for Demoted_ address after he/she/it admitted to be a chick kind of made sense
 71 2010-12-06 02:09:15 <Demoted_> hell i just want enough too... hey!
 72 2010-12-06 02:09:18 <Demoted_> i have lindens
 73 2010-12-06 02:09:27 <Demoted_> i want enough to use the casino
 74 2010-12-06 02:09:40 <nelisky> Demoted_: great! you can buy more lindens when you get bitcoins!
 75 2010-12-06 02:09:44 <Demoted_> people get rich off casinos, right?
 76 2010-12-06 02:09:48 <lolcat> Demoted_: Lindens are usless :P I tried using them earlier, apparently I can't do anything with them.
 77 2010-12-06 02:09:54 <Demoted_> i want to buy bitcoins for lindens
 78 2010-12-06 02:10:09 <lolcat> Demoted_: I would get rich if I made a casino
 79 2010-12-06 02:10:12 <[Noodles]> how much do you need?
 80 2010-12-06 02:10:28 <lolcat> Enough for a sex-change maybe...
 81 2010-12-06 02:10:56 <[Noodles]> is that bitcoin-sexchange.com?
 82 2010-12-06 02:11:02 <[Noodles]> or is it org?
 83 2010-12-06 02:11:06 <Demoted_> like 20 or something
 84 2010-12-06 02:11:21 <lolcat> I should so totaly start a bitcoin sex change clinic. Who here wouldn't use it?
 85 2010-12-06 02:11:50 <AAA_awright> Why is this appearing on my chat monitor?
 86 2010-12-06 02:12:02 <grondilu> Hi, how does the code deal with 32 bit machines for the int64 type.  I see on the source that it's defined as long long.  How can that be sufficient ?
 87 2010-12-06 02:13:27 <grondilu> I ask that because I'm considering a continuous version at http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2012.0  and it seems to me that 69 * COIN is too a large number for int64
 88 2010-12-06 02:13:45 <lolcat> Demoted_: When you get bitcoins you should check out http://fxnet.co.cc/?ref=233
 89 2010-12-06 02:13:52 <ArtForz> long long is 64 bits on any sane system
 90 2010-12-06 02:14:03 <doublec> ,,pool server updated to the latest code using the 'contributed' hash method. And there's a cuda remote miner.
 91 2010-12-06 02:14:04 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
 92 2010-12-06 02:14:32 <nelisky> Demoted_: in all seriousness, go to #bitcoin-otc as that's where all the trading happens
 93 2010-12-06 02:15:01 <lolcat> gribble: Can you give me a 64bit binary for that?
 94 2010-12-06 02:15:24 <grondilu> ArtForz: ah ok
 95 2010-12-06 02:22:18 <xelister> diablo's miner still sucks even on catalyst 10.10 :[
 96 2010-12-06 02:50:30 <nelisky> people, over at otc I'm doing the following proposal: I buy amazon.co.uk or amazon.de gift card for bitcoins... I'm only offering this for some 10 minutes, as otherwise I'll just order using credit card, so forgive my OT posting
 97 2010-12-06 02:50:50 <nelisky> rate below bitcoingateway: 0.235
 98 2010-12-06 02:50:57 <nelisky> amount negotiable
 99 2010-12-06 02:53:02 <nanotube> noagendamarket: hey, i recall you were wanting to do some btc-amazon trades?
100 2010-12-06 02:53:25 <noagendamarket> hey whats up[?
101 2010-12-06 02:53:36 <nanotube> join -otc :)
102 2010-12-06 02:54:00 <nelisky> I went through this with noagendamarket already :)
103 2010-12-06 02:54:55 <noagendamarket> hey nelisky
104 2010-12-06 02:55:17 <nanotube> ah
105 2010-12-06 02:55:20 <nanotube> ok never mind then
106 2010-12-06 02:55:22 <nanotube> sorry. :)
107 2010-12-06 03:00:58 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 1700000
108 2010-12-06 03:00:59 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 hours, 40 minutes, and 9 seconds
109 2010-12-06 03:04:10 <nanotube> doublec: nice, is that your pool hashrate?
110 2010-12-06 03:04:24 <[Noodles]> not yet ^.^
111 2010-12-06 03:04:51 <doublec> yeah, not yet
112 2010-12-06 03:05:06 <[Noodles]> pool is at 30M right now, half of it is coming from my cuda-client :oP
113 2010-12-06 03:05:10 <xelister> anyone have 5970 and linux, best ubuntu?
114 2010-12-06 03:05:11 <doublec> one cuda remote client is getting 17,000 khash/s. So I wanted to see what 100 would do.
115 2010-12-06 03:05:22 <nanotube> doublec: ah nice. :)
116 2010-12-06 03:05:45 <foggymyst> doublec: whats the pool rate?
117 2010-12-06 03:06:00 <doublec> foggymyst, the pool has just restarted on the new server. 16 clients, 30,000 khash.
118 2010-12-06 03:06:07 <doublec> previously it was 100 clients at about 90,000
119 2010-12-06 03:06:16 <foggymyst> ah, ok
120 2010-12-06 03:06:20 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
121 2010-12-06 03:06:20 <nanotube> mm, let's see that ,,pool url
122 2010-12-06 03:06:24 <foggymyst> I had to turn off my two servers that were in the pool
123 2010-12-06 03:06:35 <doublec> no worries, thanks for contributing!
124 2010-12-06 03:07:27 <nanotube> doublec: yay git repo! :)
125 2010-12-06 03:08:11 <doublec> hehe
126 2010-12-06 03:08:26 <ArtForz> 100 clients. slower than a single 5750...
127 2010-12-06 03:08:50 <doublec> well we've been targeting slow clients as the customers for the pool
128 2010-12-06 03:08:58 <doublec> so each client was less than 1,000 khash usually
129 2010-12-06 03:09:18 <ArtForz> obivously, with 100 averageing 90M it's 900k avg
130 2010-12-06 03:09:43 <ArtForz> a Phenom X6 is like what? 16Mh/s ?
131 2010-12-06 03:10:13 <xelister> doublec: everyone in the pool should buy BTC and donate so you can buy few 5970 and be x50 faster
132 2010-12-06 03:10:22 <doublec> I wish
133 2010-12-06 03:10:24 <[Noodles]> should be, my X3 gets 7200 using 4way
134 2010-12-06 03:10:43 <ArtForz> not to mention use about 20x less power
135 2010-12-06 03:11:03 <nanotube> ArtForz: hey, when power is free, why not.
136 2010-12-06 03:11:19 <xelister> then it is more profitable
137 2010-12-06 03:11:30 <xelister> to open up a accumulator-rechargers service
138 2010-12-06 03:11:34 <[Noodles]> xelister: people wont pay, they want "free coins" *giggles
139 2010-12-06 03:11:37 <xelister> and use the profits to buy BTC
140 2010-12-06 03:12:02 <xelister> free power -> refill people acumulators -> get money -> get free BTC o/ -> ??? -> awesome sex win
141 2010-12-06 03:13:24 <xelister> on real Catalyst 10.10 drivers, on SDK 2.1 and 2.2, with diablo miner, still GPU#2 produces buches of invalid hashes
142 2010-12-06 03:13:38 <ArtForz> thats really weird
143 2010-12-06 03:14:10 <xelister> same was on the default ubuntu's (ubuntu maverick) drivers (catalyst 10.10-BETA)
144 2010-12-06 03:14:16 <ArtForz> best guess diablos miner is doing something ATIs opencl runtime and/or driver doesn't like
145 2010-12-06 03:14:24 <ArtForz> does m0s miner work?
146 2010-12-06 03:14:28 <xelister> not sure
147 2010-12-06 03:14:37 <xelister> last time I checked it appearted to given even more sucking results
148 2010-12-06 03:18:01 <xelister> also it slowed down to 450M from 530M after switching from catalyst 10.10-BETA-ubuntu-maverick  to amd's catalyst 10.10
149 2010-12-06 03:18:24 <ArtForz> yea, same for 10.9 -> 10.10
150 2010-12-06 03:19:05 <xelister> ArtForz: the slowdown?
151 2010-12-06 03:19:24 <ArtForz> yep
152 2010-12-06 03:19:30 <xelister> jesus
153 2010-12-06 03:19:44 <xelister> wo what drivers are you using then
154 2010-12-06 03:20:08 <ArtForz> got back to pretty much == 10.9 perf after tweaking my kernel a bit
155 2010-12-06 03:20:13 <ArtForz> 10.9 on the quad 5970s
156 2010-12-06 03:20:32 <ArtForz> 10.10 on the 5970+6870
157 2010-12-06 03:20:53 <ArtForz> 10.9 on my 2*5970+2*5770
158 2010-12-06 03:35:14 <xelister> diablo's miner is fucking wiredo n 5970
159 2010-12-06 03:35:38 <xelister> only gpu#2 generates invalid solutions,  bot never the less, both GPUs with same rate generate correct blocks.
160 2010-12-06 03:39:24 <xelister> and "Attempt found" seem to be on GPU#1 around  100 times less!!! then on GPU#2
161 2010-12-06 03:39:44 <xelister> ^-- diablo, 10.10-amd-catalyst, sdk 2.1 and 2.2
162 2010-12-06 03:41:34 <OneFixt> ArtForz: I'm wondering if you could help me understand something about block generation
163 2010-12-06 03:42:21 <OneFixt> the extranonce field - which bitcoin docs say is stored in the block's transaction list and changes the merkle root - how can i go find what the extranonce was for a particular block?
164 2010-12-06 03:50:22 <OneFixt> we need a message in #bitcoin letting people know to go to this channel
165 2010-12-06 03:51:11 <Joshoph> hi all, i've been running bitcoin for months without a single BTC generated, whats up?
166 2010-12-06 03:51:33 <Joshoph> am i that unlucky?
167 2010-12-06 03:52:18 <[Noodles]> or your miner is just to slow to keep up
168 2010-12-06 03:52:35 <[Noodles]> do you use CPU, or GPU for mining?
169 2010-12-06 03:53:04 <Joshoph> Dual-Core 2.5Ghz CPU
170 2010-12-06 03:53:32 <Joshoph> my rate is ~1000 khash/s with almost 100k blocks so far
171 2010-12-06 03:53:42 <Joshoph> yet no coin
172 2010-12-06 03:53:46 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,calc 1000
173 2010-12-06 03:53:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 39 minutes, and 44 seconds
174 2010-12-06 03:53:55 <[Noodles]> ^.~
175 2010-12-06 03:54:26 <Joshoph> understood, i tried the calcs but they were giving wildly different time spans
176 2010-12-06 03:54:36 <Joshoph> thus why im asking here
177 2010-12-06 03:54:47 <[Noodles]> just buy bitcoins, or if you really want to generate some, a decent GPU
178 2010-12-06 03:54:55 <lolcat> Could I use rainbow tables to generate bitcoins?
179 2010-12-06 03:55:21 <[Noodles]> wildly different it is, because the difficulty changes (raises actually) every 2016blocks
180 2010-12-06 03:55:31 <fedorared> Of what, SHA? Way too big.
181 2010-12-06 03:55:38 <Joshoph> investing my fiat paper currency in bitcoins isnt on my agenda anytime soon, ill just wait a year =)
182 2010-12-06 03:55:47 <[Noodles]> hehe
183 2010-12-06 03:55:56 <[Noodles]> or join the mining-pool
184 2010-12-06 03:56:08 <[Noodles]> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
185 2010-12-06 03:56:14 <Lysacor> yes, we just generated our first block yesterday, after only a few days of being online
186 2010-12-06 03:56:15 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: no.
187 2010-12-06 03:56:19 <Joshoph> ill check it out, thanks
188 2010-12-06 03:56:26 <Diablo-D3> Joshoph: why not gpu mine?
189 2010-12-06 03:56:26 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Why not?
190 2010-12-06 03:56:28 <Kiba> rainbow table?
191 2010-12-06 03:56:31 <Lysacor> doublec really did well with puddinpop's server implementation
192 2010-12-06 03:56:38 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: probably he doesn't have a gpu? :)
193 2010-12-06 03:56:39 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: because a) you cant rainbow table sha, b) you need the actual valid header
194 2010-12-06 03:57:04 <Diablo-D3> [11:53:33] <Joshoph> my rate is ~1000 khash/s with almost 100k blocks so far
195 2010-12-06 03:57:09 <Diablo-D3> Joshoph: you're reading the wrong thing
196 2010-12-06 03:57:12 <Diablo-D3> Joshoph: you have 0 blocks.
197 2010-12-06 03:57:21 <Diablo-D3> Joshoph: the entire network has almost 100k blocks.
198 2010-12-06 03:58:12 <Diablo-D3> Joshoph: and your generation rate seems low, my c2d e8500 @ 3.16ghz does 2900 khash, you should be at least above 2000
199 2010-12-06 04:01:44 <Lysacor> Joshoph: Do you have the bitcoin client set to use only one processor?
200 2010-12-06 04:02:53 <lolcat> If I connect with a bitcoin farmer to my computer, would I see the generation in my client?
201 2010-12-06 04:03:17 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: a miner? no
202 2010-12-06 04:04:58 <lolcat> Yeah, miner
203 2010-12-06 04:05:07 <lolcat> How will I know when the miner has mined?
204 2010-12-06 04:05:21 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: you wont see generation statistics, ie, the khash meter
205 2010-12-06 04:05:27 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: you WILL see new coins
206 2010-12-06 04:05:44 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: but both my and m0's also says when you mine new coins
207 2010-12-06 04:06:28 <lolcat> I am curious if my VPS provider would hate me for mining bitcoins...
208 2010-12-06 04:06:34 <Diablo-D3> yes
209 2010-12-06 04:06:48 <Diablo-D3> most VPS providers will close accounts that use a lot of cpu time
210 2010-12-06 04:06:57 <Lysacor> The extra processor utilization wouldn't bring out the welcome mat if that is what you mean :P
211 2010-12-06 04:06:58 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: also, its a waste of time
212 2010-12-06 04:07:03 <lolcat> How do i see what cpu it has?
213 2010-12-06 04:07:10 <Diablo-D3> its a VPS
214 2010-12-06 04:07:12 <nanotube> lolcat: maybe if you throttle it to 10% of available cpu... :)
215 2010-12-06 04:07:14 <Diablo-D3> its not your cpu to begin with
216 2010-12-06 04:07:14 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Waste of time?
217 2010-12-06 04:07:29 <Diablo-D3> you're sharing it with a few hundred other customers
218 2010-12-06 04:07:30 <lolcat> I am paying for a certain amount of IO
219 2010-12-06 04:07:40 <lolcat> Could you make a javascript miner?
220 2010-12-06 04:07:51 <Diablo-D3> yes, if you want it about 50x slower
221 2010-12-06 04:08:10 <lolcat> But javascripts are easy to send about
222 2010-12-06 04:08:12 <Diablo-D3> but how does that help anything
223 2010-12-06 04:08:20 <Diablo-D3> that'd just run on client browsers
224 2010-12-06 04:08:36 <lolcat> Yes
225 2010-12-06 04:08:50 <lolcat> I make myself a website, get a couple of thousands hits a day
226 2010-12-06 04:08:58 <Diablo-D3> s/thousand/dozen/
227 2010-12-06 04:09:00 <lolcat> Each visitor helps generating hashes for me
228 2010-12-06 04:09:06 <Diablo-D3> bots dont execute javascript.
229 2010-12-06 04:09:27 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: you do realize you're talking about less than 1 mhash, right?
230 2010-12-06 04:09:42 <nanotube> sneak it into google haha
231 2010-12-06 04:10:11 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: google could just run bitcoin
232 2010-12-06 04:10:11 <lolcat> So the only thing I can do to mine is to get an ati HD5850 botnet? :P
233 2010-12-06 04:10:19 <Diablo-D3> botnet? wtf?
234 2010-12-06 04:10:24 <Diablo-D3> you mean farm
235 2010-12-06 04:10:32 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: and no, if you're doing that, you want 5970s
236 2010-12-06 04:10:47 <Diablo-D3> because every pci-e x16 slot is valuable
237 2010-12-06 04:10:48 <lolcat> I thougth you said it was called mining...
238 2010-12-06 04:11:01 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: The mobo Im getting has 4!
239 2010-12-06 04:11:12 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: heh well, i guess if you can sneak it into google's site code without them noticing... you would do better to just sneak it into their servers and have the servers mine heh
240 2010-12-06 04:11:18 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: its a miner, but you run them in a farm
241 2010-12-06 04:11:21 <nanotube> it was all tonge in cheek, anyway. :)
242 2010-12-06 04:12:04 <lolcat> I should get coding on this bitcoin idea of mine...
243 2010-12-06 04:12:28 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: its a bad idea.
244 2010-12-06 04:13:13 <lolcat> A bitcoin slot machine is a bad idea?
245 2010-12-06 04:13:14 <lolcat> How so?
246 2010-12-06 04:13:44 <Diablo-D3> thats an even worse idea
247 2010-12-06 04:16:32 <lolcat> Why?
248 2010-12-06 04:17:12 <Diablo-D3> because who would actually pay to play?
249 2010-12-06 04:17:32 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: probably the same guys who go into a casino and play actual slot machines.
250 2010-12-06 04:17:42 <nanotube> it's a bad idea... but people do it anyway.
251 2010-12-06 04:17:45 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: yes, but you get actual real money out of those
252 2010-12-06 04:17:58 <nanotube> and you pay actual real money to play them
253 2010-12-06 04:18:06 <nanotube> here, you pay bitcoins, you get bitcoins.
254 2010-12-06 04:18:08 <nanotube> same idea
255 2010-12-06 04:18:22 <Diablo-D3> but bitcoins are kind of worthless
256 2010-12-06 04:18:34 <nanotube> what you put in is what you get (just a little less of it, in expectation)
257 2010-12-06 04:18:36 <Lysacor> Diablo-D3: I am one of those suckers... it is the thrill of the play that is intriguing, regardless of the logic behind it
258 2010-12-06 04:19:04 <lolcat> Lysacor: So if I make one, I'd have at least one gambler?
259 2010-12-06 04:19:25 <Lysacor> lolcat: well I am not sure if I would be doing it all of the time, but sure I would take a whirl
260 2010-12-06 04:19:25 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: how does the idea of bitcoins being 'worthless' at all relevant to the idea of playing slots. you could play them for seashells, buttons, or matches, or dollars.
261 2010-12-06 04:19:44 <Lysacor> Bitcoins are the value you instill in them, as with any currency
262 2010-12-06 04:20:21 <Lysacor> Gold, dollars, oil... it is all based on the value an individual, and society as a whole places on it as a method of barter/trade in lieu of actual goods changing hands
263 2010-12-06 04:20:55 <Lysacor> The bitcoin setup, as I understand it is intended to become valued, hence the reason why we all put CPU/GPU cycles into it
264 2010-12-06 04:21:48 <Lysacor> Or time spent developing the applications to support it (thank you all for that effort by the way)
265 2010-12-06 04:23:31 <Kiba> Diablo-D3 is trying to make money by doing what ArtForz did
266 2010-12-06 04:23:43 <Joshoph> i understand the comparison of bitcoins to fiat paper currency, but can it really be compared to or valued like commodities like oil or gold?
267 2010-12-06 04:24:04 <Kiba> bitcoins have no "intristic value", no utility other than being money
268 2010-12-06 04:24:30 <Joshoph> exactly, whereas commodities are meant to do or make something
269 2010-12-06 04:25:00 <lolcat> But I can sell my bitcoins for USD, EUR or even NOK
270 2010-12-06 04:25:10 <lolcat> And then buy gold, oil, or fish sticks
271 2010-12-06 04:25:26 <Kiba> japanese yen.
272 2010-12-06 04:26:47 <Joshoph> this is true, however the you could make a strong argument that those currencies have no intrinsic value either, and that the acceptance of said currencies for actual commodities is because a delusion held by a majority of the population
273 2010-12-06 04:27:13 <Joshoph> of a*
274 2010-12-06 04:27:17 <Kiba> fiat currencies are backed by guns
275 2010-12-06 04:27:41 <Lysacor> Kiba: Bingo, and to a lesser extent monopolistic business practice
276 2010-12-06 04:27:47 <Joshoph> guns dont kill people, people kill people
277 2010-12-06 04:28:10 <Lysacor> guns don't kill people, bullets do
278 2010-12-06 04:28:30 <Joshoph> intelligent nanobullets?
279 2010-12-06 04:28:36 <Joshoph> maybe!
280 2010-12-06 04:28:46 <Kiba> but the problem with gold is that it is hard to transport over the intertube
281 2010-12-06 04:29:30 <lolcat> I think, if we had 30k users using bitcoins, we would do fine
282 2010-12-06 04:29:43 <lolcat> If I there were some from every nation
283 2010-12-06 04:29:47 <Lysacor> yep, and getting gold in bulk past customs without getting the evil eye ouch...
284 2010-12-06 04:29:58 <lolcat> So we weren't too tied up to the dollar.
285 2010-12-06 04:30:42 <nanotube> Joshoph: money is nothing more than a convenient means of exchange. it derives value from the expectation of being accepted by others in exchange for useful stuff.
286 2010-12-06 04:31:43 <Lysacor> Well at least the concept of the bitcoin does not provide for an infinite supply of money. Unless it is redesigned... then we start what the US has been doign for years...
287 2010-12-06 04:31:46 <Lysacor> doing*
288 2010-12-06 04:32:04 <Joshoph> that said, that expectation rapidly diminishes when bankers wantonly print trillions of dollars without backing, which is why i like the idea of bitcoins distributing the scarcity out of the hands of the few
289 2010-12-06 04:32:07 <nanotube> sure, historically, currencies have derived value from their usefulness as a commodity. but not all the time. see seashells (useless), giant round stones (also useless), etc. the main characteristics are scarcity, divisibility, ease of transactions
290 2010-12-06 04:34:08 <Kiba> we might find a new system somehow that let a cryptocurrency have intrinstic value
291 2010-12-06 04:36:10 <Joshoph> something like SETI, attaching value to the computations.. tho im sure that question has been mulled over ad nauseam around here
292 2010-12-06 04:36:38 <Kiba> find problems that is hard to do but easy to verify
293 2010-12-06 04:41:27 <Joshoph> i presume the exchange rate for BTC's will go up the more popularity it gains.  i just wonder how one rationalizes switching from one essentially valueless currency to another - even understanding the mass delusion argument(i.e. expectation)
294 2010-12-06 04:42:03 <Kiba> therei s no such thing as mas delusion
295 2010-12-06 04:42:11 <Kiba> everything is valued subjectively, after all
296 2010-12-06 04:45:44 <Joshoph> that sounds like solipsism, which isn't a very useful philosophy imo
297 2010-12-06 04:46:26 <Joshoph> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
298 2010-12-06 04:46:30 <Kiba> no it's not.
299 2010-12-06 04:46:39 <Kiba> values and pricing are a human thing.
300 2010-12-06 04:46:50 <Kiba> monkeys have no concept of trading..they can't abstract it
301 2010-12-06 04:47:08 <jrabbit> huh
302 2010-12-06 04:47:10 <jrabbit> yes they
303 2010-12-06 04:47:12 <jrabbit> *can
304 2010-12-06 04:47:26 <jrabbit> they're been observed prostiuting
305 2010-12-06 04:47:31 <Joshoph> yea i was just thinking we dont give monkeys enough credit
306 2010-12-06 04:48:00 <Kiba> as far as I know, they don't get the idea of trading.
307 2010-12-06 04:48:13 <Lysacor> You mean variable value trading?
308 2010-12-06 04:48:20 <Kiba> Joshoph: well, it's really intersubjectivism
309 2010-12-06 04:48:40 <Kiba> but subjectivism is really just really how you see the world
310 2010-12-06 04:49:00 <Kiba> a coconut have no price except humans say so. It's just
311 2010-12-06 04:49:04 <Kiba> ...a coconut
312 2010-12-06 04:49:36 <Kiba> then when a human trade coconut for something else, it now have a trading ratio.
313 2010-12-06 04:51:46 <Kiba> The Nathenderal, as far as I know didn't know a thing called the division of labor
314 2010-12-06 04:53:27 <nanotube> Joshoph4492: well, one switches from one valueless currency to another because the other has guarantees that some entity won't just willy nilly print a whole bunch more of it.
315 2010-12-06 04:54:10 <nanotube> Joshoph4492: i.e., why do people like gold as a store of value? because a government can't just go to the printing presses to make more gold.
316 2010-12-06 04:54:11 <Joshoph4492> okay, this is true - but say for example that said humans trade the coconut for something that has no utility such as seashells or rocks like nanotube mentioned.  does that mean that a rock is now as valuable as a coconut.  no, but it may be perceived as such, therefore peoples perceptions of value can be manipulated and therein creating delusion
317 2010-12-06 04:54:45 <nanotube> Joshoph4492: 'delusion' may be too harsh. expectations for the future, more like.
318 2010-12-06 04:55:01 <Kiba> sometime the utility is deocractive
319 2010-12-06 04:55:04 <nanotube> people trade coconut for seashells because they expect to be able to use the seashells to trade for other useful stuff, in the future.
320 2010-12-06 04:55:06 <Kiba> seashells are deocractive
321 2010-12-06 04:55:13 <Kiba> perhap rock symbolize something
322 2010-12-06 04:55:29 <nanotube> irrelevant. it's all about expectations.
323 2010-12-06 04:55:52 <Kiba> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value
324 2010-12-06 04:56:33 <nanotube> when expectations are realized... everything is fine and dandy. when they are not, people start talking about delusions. but that's the thing about expectations about the future - it is a given that some will not be realized.
325 2010-12-06 05:01:17 <Kiba> delusion are nonsense; human subjectivism are what allow us to create an economy
326 2010-12-06 05:02:33 <Joshoph4492> presuming your right, and bitcoins distributed model is "safe" (which i have seen no evidence to say otherwise) - if it were to gain enough popularity, what's to stop the same establishment that caused the fiat currency crisis from dedicating a few of the militaries super computers to owning the BTC economy as well?
327 2010-12-06 05:02:55 <Joshoph4492> military's*
328 2010-12-06 05:04:00 <redMBA> they don't even need super computers, they can just buy it all
329 2010-12-06 05:04:03 <gribble> Learn about bitcoin and anonymity here: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=weaknesses
330 2010-12-06 05:04:03 <nanotube> Joshoph4492: well, you can see the ,,weaknesses wiki. it's possible, i suppose - but we can hope that by that time the network's cpu power will be high enough that one or two supercomputers won't be able to take over and doublespend
331 2010-12-06 05:05:48 <gribble> Read about the potential weaknesses of bitcoin here: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=weaknesses
332 2010-12-06 05:05:48 <nanotube> ;;whatis weaknesses
333 2010-12-06 05:05:51 <nanotube> that's better. :)
334 2010-12-06 05:06:10 <Joshoph4492> i saw that a few months ago in the technical docs, this project has stellar docs
335 2010-12-06 05:06:43 <nanotube> yep... thanks to some good effort from community members. :)
336 2010-12-06 05:08:38 <Joshoph4492> the only problem i have with the gov't just buying bitcoins is that by the time they'd actually care about bitcoins, fiat currencies would probably already be totally crashed and worthless
337 2010-12-06 05:13:04 <nanotube> jgarzik: some parts are quite good. :) documentation on the actual protocol is lacking, but hey, we'll take what we can get. :)
338 2010-12-06 05:14:45 <jgarzik> the real documentation is impenetrable C++ code, where code like "filein >> *this;" hides the entirety of reading and deserializing a bitcoin block
339 2010-12-06 05:14:57 <genjix> anyone know where I can get a free vps just to run bitcoind?
340 2010-12-06 05:15:22 <[Noodles]> i take some
341 2010-12-06 05:16:42 <genjix> does sourceforge provide one for free software projects?
342 2010-12-06 05:17:01 <jrabbit> no
343 2010-12-06 05:17:19 <jrabbit> genjix: you can get one on amazon
344 2010-12-06 05:17:26 <genjix> for free?
345 2010-12-06 05:17:36 <jrabbit> yeah
346 2010-12-06 05:17:47 <genjix> cool thanks
347 2010-12-06 05:17:55 <Joshoph4492> yes, join the cloud - assimilate, resistance is futile
348 2010-12-06 05:20:30 <genjix> thats just extremely cheap
349 2010-12-06 05:21:07 <genjix> i dont have money in the bank nor have a visa card but im getting a vps in 2-3 weeks
350 2010-12-06 05:21:40 <genjix> i just need something free temporary... its free software project so dont SF, gnu or github or anyone give free VPS's?
351 2010-12-06 05:21:43 <jrabbit> genjix: they have a free aws level
352 2010-12-06 05:21:53 <genjix> oh
353 2010-12-06 05:21:55 <jrabbit> ...
354 2010-12-06 05:23:02 <genjix> thanks, will check this out :)
355 2010-12-06 05:29:30 <nanotube> genjix: sourceforge does give free hosting to foss projects
356 2010-12-06 05:29:43 <nanotube> genjix: but you can't run long-running processes on the server (such as bitcoind)
357 2010-12-06 05:29:45 <genjix> i know, but how about vps?
358 2010-12-06 05:29:51 <genjix> ah ok
359 2010-12-06 05:30:00 <genjix> i remember the ssh but wasnt sure about that
360 2010-12-06 05:30:10 <nanotube> yea, shell lifetime is limited to 4 hours.
361 2010-12-06 05:31:19 <gribble> Here's a bitcoin wiki page about gribble: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=gribble
362 2010-12-06 05:31:19 <nanotube> btw, new wiki page about ,,gribble. fyi.
363 2010-12-06 05:31:40 <genjix> nice
364 2010-12-06 05:32:22 <genjix> amazon AWS/EC2 is a free VPS. However it requires a credit card and I do not trust any company saying they're free but need my card
365 2010-12-06 05:32:41 <genjix> i've been burned like that before from "trusted" companies
366 2010-12-06 05:33:22 <genjix> and i don't have a visa anymore anyway :p
367 2010-12-06 05:33:36 <Diablo-D3> genjix: its to stop scammers
368 2010-12-06 05:33:39 <a_meteorite> Amazon dumped Wikileaks. Good enough reason to stay away there.
369 2010-12-06 05:33:51 <Diablo-D3> genjix: also, ONLY the free version is free
370 2010-12-06 05:33:54 <Diablo-D3> and thats only for a year
371 2010-12-06 05:34:25 <genjix> maybe. but im putting myself at risk then t another scammer (them)
372 2010-12-06 05:34:57 <genjix> a_meteorite: right. but im writing a free project and need vps. who am i punishing by not having a vps?
373 2010-12-06 05:35:13 <nanotube> genjix: what's your project?
374 2010-12-06 05:35:14 <genjix> if i bought a vps, i would not select amazon.
375 2010-12-06 05:35:26 <nanotube> (if it's not a secret?)
376 2010-12-06 05:35:28 <a_meteorite> what do you need a VPS for? I'm sure lots of people here (myself included) could probably help with hosting
377 2010-12-06 05:35:33 <genjix> not a secret
378 2010-12-06 05:35:56 <genjix> nanotube: https://github.com/genjix/kartludox
379 2010-12-06 05:36:34 <genjix> screenshots: https://github.com/genjix/kartludox/wiki/screenshot_maximised.png
380 2010-12-06 05:36:39 <genjix> https://github.com/genjix/kartludox/wiki/screenshot_minimal.png
381 2010-12-06 05:36:48 <nanotube> ah, a bitcoin poker site... cool
382 2010-12-06 05:37:06 <a_meteorite> heh
383 2010-12-06 05:37:07 <genjix> yep but im releasing the code for free so anyone can setup a site
384 2010-12-06 05:37:21 <a_meteorite> does the hoster make money? :)
385 2010-12-06 05:37:26 <genjix> no
386 2010-12-06 05:37:27 <Kiba> what' you're releasing?
387 2010-12-06 05:37:31 <a_meteorite> darnit
388 2010-12-06 05:37:54 <genjix> here's the reason why: http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/926209/The_Rake_:(.html
389 2010-12-06 05:38:15 <a_meteorite> Well I'd be willing to host if non-intensive on our VPS except I'm unsure as to the legality
390 2010-12-06 05:38:15 <genjix> rake is a huge turnoff/scam currently
391 2010-12-06 05:38:48 <a_meteorite> gambling site on a server in the US...
392 2010-12-06 05:38:50 <MT`AwAy> [15:32:23] <genjix> amazon AWS/EC2 is a free VPS. However it requires a credit card and I do not trust any company saying they're free but need my card <- it's free as long as you don't keep your vps too long
393 2010-12-06 05:38:52 <genjix> a_meteorite: thanks :) i only want it for a couple of weeks to mess about with bitcoind and test a few things out.
394 2010-12-06 05:39:06 <MT`AwAy> (and don't use it)
395 2010-12-06 05:41:06 <nanotube> genjix: if you run linux yourself, why not just set something up on your local box?
396 2010-12-06 05:41:52 <genjix> nanotube: actually that's not a bad idea... I just remembered that I have an old computer I can leave running.
397 2010-12-06 05:41:54 <a_meteorite> new jersey has online gambling legislation which is where our VPS is physically located
398 2010-12-06 05:41:58 <a_meteorite> so probably a no-go
399 2010-12-06 05:42:08 <genjix> ok np a_meteorite
400 2010-12-06 05:42:24 <genjix> a_meteorite: thats why i want to make a poker site for bitcoin... to fuck the law.
401 2010-12-06 05:42:32 <a_meteorite> yeah
402 2010-12-06 05:42:34 <genjix> a_meteorite: if i give away the server for free then its unstopabble
403 2010-12-06 05:42:38 <a_meteorite> I'm not sure if the currency matters
404 2010-12-06 05:42:42 <a_meteorite> hehe
405 2010-12-06 05:42:43 <MT`AwAy> in most countries, online gambling is a no-go
406 2010-12-06 05:42:44 <genjix> anyone can setup their own poker server easily
407 2010-12-06 05:42:56 <genjix> = win
408 2010-12-06 05:43:19 <a_meteorite> make a tor service
409 2010-12-06 05:43:23 <a_meteorite> unstoppable
410 2010-12-06 05:43:23 <genjix> its like a massive fuck you to government
411 2010-12-06 05:43:35 <a_meteorite> and get hosted at prq.se
412 2010-12-06 05:43:40 <a_meteorite> you can become RICH!
413 2010-12-06 05:43:49 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: bitcoins are hard to trace to real life identities... so as long as people access through tor, e.g., they can't be traced.
414 2010-12-06 05:43:52 <a_meteorite> ehe
415 2010-12-06 05:44:47 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: yep, if the game client can include a tor client it'll be fine
416 2010-12-06 05:45:28 <MT`AwAy> (I think it shouldn't be too hard btw)
417 2010-12-06 05:46:23 <genjix> why does the game client need tor?
418 2010-12-06 05:46:34 <genjix> you just deposit to the site
419 2010-12-06 05:46:42 <genjix> play and then cash out :)
420 2010-12-06 05:47:21 <MT`AwAy> genjix: to play, you need to connect to the game server, which would then need to be hosted in a country where online gambling is legal
421 2010-12-06 05:47:37 <MT`AwAy> if instead the game client includes a tor client, the server can be hosted behind an onion address and be anywhere
422 2010-12-06 05:48:18 <genjix> in countries where poker is illegal
423 2010-12-06 05:48:27 <genjix> they dont go after the players
424 2010-12-06 05:48:32 <genjix> they try to shutdown the sites
425 2010-12-06 05:48:35 <MT`AwAy> genjix: online poker is illegal in most european countries, in US, in Japan, etc
426 2010-12-06 05:48:44 <genjix> but if theres too many sites and anyone can make one
427 2010-12-06 05:48:48 <MT`AwAy> genjix: isn't the fact you provide the server aimed at servers ?
428 2010-12-06 05:48:55 <a_meteorite> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_poker#Legality
429 2010-12-06 05:48:59 <genjix> it becomes impossible/unfeasible to shut them all down.
430 2010-12-06 05:49:04 <MT`AwAy> just make a system where anyone can create a /tor/ server
431 2010-12-06 05:49:18 <a_meteorite> yeah, tor ONLY
432 2010-12-06 05:49:28 <a_meteorite> if you stick to a tor only address you're untraceable
433 2010-12-06 05:49:33 <genjix> MT`AwAy: its a client where you can connect to any server (like IRC works)
434 2010-12-06 05:49:35 <MT`AwAy> genjix: make it easy for users to connect through tor, and people will open servers anywhere without any worry
435 2010-12-06 05:49:50 <genjix> and to setup a server is very easy
436 2010-12-06 05:50:01 <MT`AwAy> genjix: make it easy to use tor, and automatic for clients
437 2010-12-06 05:50:13 <MT`AwAy> clients will not setup tor themselves since they know they will not be targetted, server will be
438 2010-12-06 05:50:32 <a_meteorite> being low bandwidth doesn't matter for tor
439 2010-12-06 05:50:37 <a_meteorite> (just the 1 second latency, but meh)
440 2010-12-06 05:50:47 <xelister> Diablo-D3: it's all fuitile
441 2010-12-06 05:51:04 <MT`AwAy> genjix: anyway if you make a client that natively uses tor, people will be willing to host zillion of poker servers
442 2010-12-06 05:51:14 <xelister> Diablo-D3: on real 10.10 driver, both sdk21 and 22, it allears to be a slow..
443 2010-12-06 05:51:19 <a_meteorite> I love this idea
444 2010-12-06 05:51:21 <genjix> are you not willing to host one now?
445 2010-12-06 05:51:37 <genjix> i doubt the government will throw you in the slammer for hosting a poker site with 10 players
446 2010-12-06 05:51:45 <MT`AwAy> genjix: I'm in Japan, and also have servers in US and Europe
447 2010-12-06 05:51:49 <xelister> Diablo-D3: interesting thing thiough: -debug shows x100 times more Attempt at GPU#2, also much more block found are gpu#2
448 2010-12-06 05:51:54 <Kiba> wee!
449 2010-12-06 05:52:01 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/21
450 2010-12-06 05:52:02 <Kiba> we got preview
451 2010-12-06 05:52:05 <genjix> worst is they get an order to take down your server which can take weeks
452 2010-12-06 05:52:06 <a_meteorite> I wouldn't be surprised if they did... or at least shutdown and seize my server
453 2010-12-06 05:52:15 <MT`AwAy> genjix: instead of having to bet if the gov. will be willing or not, it's even better to know it can't
454 2010-12-06 05:52:18 <joe_1> anything that can be done on the internet is legal by the 1st amendment.
455 2010-12-06 05:52:27 <a_meteorite> joe_1: lol
456 2010-12-06 05:52:29 <MT`AwAy> [15:52:06] <genjix> worst is they get an order to take down your server which can take weeks <- took 12 hours last time
457 2010-12-06 05:52:36 <MT`AwAy> (in France)
458 2010-12-06 05:52:39 <a_meteorite> joe_1: so child porn is legal now?
459 2010-12-06 05:52:49 <joe_1> it always has been. it's producing it that's illegal.
460 2010-12-06 05:52:56 <a_meteorite> possession is too
461 2010-12-06 05:52:57 <genjix> umm
462 2010-12-06 05:53:09 <genjix> child porn sends you to prison
463 2010-12-06 05:53:13 <xelister> Diablo-D3: you should get someone else with 5970 to compare on ubuntu... but the problems whre NOT fault of ubunut's 10.9 beta drivers
464 2010-12-06 05:53:16 <a_meteorite> if you have a site that hosts child porn = prison
465 2010-12-06 05:53:23 <a_meteorite> even if you never produced
466 2010-12-06 05:53:27 <Diablo-D3> xelister: huh, gpu #2 is magic
467 2010-12-06 05:53:35 <genjix> joe_1: also pgp is illegal to export in the usa :p
468 2010-12-06 05:53:38 <a_meteorite> lots of things are illegal online... like fraud
469 2010-12-06 05:53:39 <joe_1> yes- there's the distinction between what's legal and what is de-facto illegal.
470 2010-12-06 05:53:42 <xelister> btw, interestingly, if you actually kill children (like, in iraq) you have much ligther sentence
471 2010-12-06 05:53:48 <a_meteorite> do enough credit card scams and the feds will be knocking on your door
472 2010-12-06 05:54:18 <a_meteorite> xelister: i'm not surprised
473 2010-12-06 05:54:26 <genjix> < a_meteorite> if you have a site that hosts child porn = prison
474 2010-12-06 05:54:29 <genjix> 4chan
475 2010-12-06 05:54:33 <xelister> Diablo-D3: are you 100% positive (latest git, today) that you are correctly doing everything??
476 2010-12-06 05:54:55 <MT`AwAy> genjix: it's not "if you have a site that hosts child porn" but "if you knowlignly put child porn on your site"
477 2010-12-06 05:54:58 <andrew12> git pull woo
478 2010-12-06 05:55:03 <a_meteorite> genjix: hosting is transient and completely user-provided. they also have moderators.
479 2010-12-06 05:55:08 <joe_1> clearly there are many legal things that are treated as illegal because the courts have not ruled that the laws against them are unconstitutional.
480 2010-12-06 05:55:10 <MT`AwAy> ie, it's not the site owner's fault, but the uploader's fault
481 2010-12-06 05:55:29 <a_meteorite> I mean, what, threads on /b/ are gone in hours at the longest. CP is gone sooner. that's why they can stay up.
482 2010-12-06 05:55:34 <andrew12> why are we talking about child porn?
483 2010-12-06 05:55:42 <genjix> cos it's sexy
484 2010-12-06 05:55:46 <MT`AwAy> (I'm selling web hosting and also got my share of child porn, as long as I take it down when notified by authorities I'm fine)
485 2010-12-06 05:55:50 <a_meteorite> cuz joe_1 said anything online is protected by the 1st amendment
486 2010-12-06 05:56:06 <a_meteorite> so child porn is the easiest way to counter that
487 2010-12-06 05:56:08 <andrew12> which is?
488 2010-12-06 05:56:13 <MT`AwAy> if you want child porn, go on wikipedia
489 2010-12-06 05:56:18 <genjix> a_meteorite: i think joe_1 makes an interesting point though
490 2010-12-06 05:56:21 <a_meteorite> Virgin Killer album, heh
491 2010-12-06 05:56:25 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes
492 2010-12-06 05:56:26 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: for example
493 2010-12-06 05:56:28 <Diablo-D3> xelister: I cannot reproduce it
494 2010-12-06 05:56:34 <andrew12> remind me what the first amendment is
495 2010-12-06 05:56:36 <xelister> you know where you find large amounts of child porn?
496 2010-12-06 05:56:46 <xelister> 1) usa officialls - like TSA scanners
497 2010-12-06 05:56:50 <MT`AwAy> xelister: on your HDD?
498 2010-12-06 05:56:58 <MT`AwAy> :D
499 2010-12-06 05:57:12 <genjix> because the USA declares encryption as a munition that is illegal to export, the founder of PGP challenged that:
500 2010-12-06 05:57:17 <xelister> 2) catcholic chirches   a) on the wall paintings from middle ages  b) in the priest office thing
501 2010-12-06 05:57:31 <a_meteorite> xelister: not surprised
502 2010-12-06 05:57:34 <genjix> Zimmermann challenged these regulations in a curious way. He published the entire source code of PGP in a hardback book,[12] via MIT Press, which was distributed and sold widely. Anybody wishing to build their own copy of PGP could buy the $60 book, cut off the covers, separate the pages, and scan them using an OCR program, creating a set of source code text files. One could then build the application using the freely available GNU Compiler Collect
503 2010-12-06 05:57:44 <xelister> just my 2 cents on usa heaving double moral standards as always
504 2010-12-06 05:57:49 <MT`AwAy> genjix: anyway just make your poker thing use tor natively and easily for everyone and you'll have a LOT of users
505 2010-12-06 05:58:10 <a_meteorite> if tor was completetely transparent everyone would do it
506 2010-12-06 05:58:21 <genjix> MT`AwAy: i don't think it will have any affect on users and will make my life hell.
507 2010-12-06 05:58:22 <a_meteorite> make users host the servers too
508 2010-12-06 05:58:26 <xelister> a_meteorite: would do what? tor is transparent
509 2010-12-06 05:58:33 <a_meteorite> if you can make sure the integrity of the game is intact
510 2010-12-06 05:58:39 <xelister> tor is also far from being fully secure (btw)
511 2010-12-06 05:58:47 <a_meteorite> I dunno how you'll do that, but if users automatically hosted servers... wow that'd be explosive
512 2010-12-06 05:58:52 <andrew12> it's secure enough
513 2010-12-06 05:58:56 <xelister> andrew12: no
514 2010-12-06 05:59:10 <genjix> a_meteorite: p2p poker is another long term project in the works. but it's got several problems and is not as easy as you think.
515 2010-12-06 05:59:10 <xelister> andrew12: MIT students cracked it for fun (exposed real ip of many tor users)
516 2010-12-06 05:59:17 <a_meteorite> well if someone hosted enough tor relays they could compromise it
517 2010-12-06 05:59:19 <MT`AwAy> genjix: if I receive and is able to confirm any of my customers is running a poker service, I'll have to shut it down, and it's the same for hosting companies in most countries.
518 2010-12-06 05:59:23 <andrew12> heh
519 2010-12-06 05:59:25 <genjix> for instance you need some form of semi-trusted escrows.
520 2010-12-06 05:59:33 <andrew12> have them crack bitcoin :D
521 2010-12-06 05:59:35 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: for online poker, I don't think anyone would bother that far
522 2010-12-06 05:59:44 <a_meteorite> yeah
523 2010-12-06 05:59:48 <xelister> what the fuck @ mtgox exchange rate
524 2010-12-06 05:59:56 <a_meteorite> the network would only already be compromised because of all the illegal bits
525 2010-12-06 06:00:00 <a_meteorite> not cuz of gambling
526 2010-12-06 06:00:02 <genjix> MT`AwAy: buy a host then in another country... or use a home computer. :)
527 2010-12-06 06:00:20 <MT`AwAy> genjix: home computer has the same problem (except you can claim you were hacked and became part of a botnet)
528 2010-12-06 06:00:26 <genjix> a_meteorite: bots?
529 2010-12-06 06:00:29 <Lysacor> yeah, mtgox is a bit bearish at the moment
530 2010-12-06 06:00:36 <andrew12> they're cheap!?
531 2010-12-06 06:00:39 <MT`AwAy> and buying a host in another country is still risky in most cases
532 2010-12-06 06:01:49 <Diablo-D3> xelister: so wtf is wrong with your system
533 2010-12-06 06:02:00 <a_meteorite> genjix: bots?
534 2010-12-06 06:02:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway
535 2010-12-06 06:02:08 <MT`AwAy> something else I wonder
536 2010-12-06 06:02:17 <genjix> a_meteorite: "because of all the illegal bits"
537 2010-12-06 06:02:18 <chaord> I think i've brought this up before, but has anyone else noticed that the forum doesn't seem to send emails properly (i never get any emails when people reply to posts and such)
538 2010-12-06 06:02:24 <a_meteorite> bits. not bots :)
539 2010-12-06 06:02:28 <genjix> ok
540 2010-12-06 06:02:38 <MT`AwAy> in most countries it is illegal to do gambling with "real money" while it's perfectly legal with "play money", what would then be the status of bitcoins? :D
541 2010-12-06 06:02:41 <a_meteorite> lots of illegal stuff on some tor hidden services
542 2010-12-06 06:02:55 <a_meteorite> MT`AwAy: well BTC can be exchanged?
543 2010-12-06 06:03:01 <a_meteorite> can the same be said for that play money?
544 2010-12-06 06:03:22 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: in Japan, when gambling you win prizes that you can then exchange for money, as long as the business doing the exchange is "unrelated" it's fine
545 2010-12-06 06:03:30 <genjix> MT`AwAy: actually in the USA you can play on PokerStars (except in washington). However the banks aren't allowed to allow deposits. So it's very difficult to put money online.
546 2010-12-06 06:03:36 <a_meteorite> hmmm
547 2010-12-06 06:03:44 <genjix> oh yeah those ball things
548 2010-12-06 06:03:48 <MT`AwAy> genjix: yup
549 2010-12-06 06:03:50 <genjix> what are they called?
550 2010-12-06 06:03:50 <MT`AwAy> and slots too
551 2010-12-06 06:03:54 <MT`AwAy> genjix: pachinko
552 2010-12-06 06:04:10 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko
553 2010-12-06 06:04:13 <MT`AwAy> I play sometimes when I'm bored and got too much money :p
554 2010-12-06 06:04:22 <MT`AwAy> (didn't happen much lately, I must admint)
555 2010-12-06 06:04:24 <genjix> another example of the stupidity of ineffective laws
556 2010-12-06 06:04:25 <MT`AwAy> admit*
557 2010-12-06 06:05:06 <andrew12> Distraction! Put some bitcoins in the pick6! http://taabl.datlatec.com/
558 2010-12-06 06:05:08 <andrew12> pl0x
559 2010-12-06 06:05:18 <MT`AwAy> I'll have to ask a local lawyer to clarify on the status of bitcoins in Japan, if it works I know a few criminal organizations that would then suddently invest a lot to start online bitcoin gambling
560 2010-12-06 06:05:35 <a_meteorite> lol
561 2010-12-06 06:06:04 <andrew12> or send me 3 BTC so I can make it 500 exactly
562 2010-12-06 06:06:18 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: addr?
563 2010-12-06 06:06:34 <andrew12> 1CC8XaLz9AEGiVZ67Zri5JVcVe4EWZK3Ay
564 2010-12-06 06:06:35 <andrew12> orly
565 2010-12-06 06:06:37 <genjix> who cares if it's illegal/legal
566 2010-12-06 06:06:45 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: 068866efe3e7f86d25af9537301fa0982b96f756cebcbd35d7c62f7e6e387337
567 2010-12-06 06:06:49 <andrew12> zomg thanks
568 2010-12-06 06:07:08 <andrew12> now to wait for confirmed
569 2010-12-06 06:07:17 <MT`AwAy> genjix: I do, as a company/hosting provider/individual/etc
570 2010-12-06 06:07:22 <genjix> wow 500 btc :p
571 2010-12-06 06:07:30 <a_meteorite> I have 0 btc
572 2010-12-06 06:07:36 <andrew12> I have 3 btc
573 2010-12-06 06:07:39 <a_meteorite> mostly cuz I gave up on generating any
574 2010-12-06 06:07:39 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: you could easily get 0.05 btc
575 2010-12-06 06:07:52 <andrew12> well I have [3 btc]
576 2010-12-06 06:08:00 <MT`AwAy> I gave up on generating btc too :D
577 2010-12-06 06:08:02 <andrew12> since it's unconfirmed
578 2010-12-06 06:08:04 <MT`AwAy> too much hassle
579 2010-12-06 06:08:16 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: 3.00000000 BTC to be exact
580 2010-12-06 06:08:26 <andrew12> yay significant figures
581 2010-12-06 06:08:35 <genjix> how is 3.0000000 more exact than 3?
582 2010-12-06 06:08:40 <genjix> :p they're the same
583 2010-12-06 06:08:44 <andrew12> genjix: significant figures
584 2010-12-06 06:09:04 <genjix> still the same number, no?
585 2010-12-06 06:09:11 <andrew12> not exactly
586 2010-12-06 06:09:16 <genjix> i.e 0.9837843 is more exact than 0.983
587 2010-12-06 06:09:17 <MT`AwAy> genjix: in reality, bitcoin sends transaction as "300000000" on 64bit integer
588 2010-12-06 06:09:38 <andrew12> huh
589 2010-12-06 06:09:40 <genjix> ok but 3 btc is exact
590 2010-12-06 06:09:44 <andrew12> interesting
591 2010-12-06 06:09:48 <genjix> you cant get more accurate than that
592 2010-12-06 06:09:49 <andrew12> genjix: yes. :p
593 2010-12-06 06:09:54 <andrew12> genjix: you can
594 2010-12-06 06:09:56 <andrew12> 3.00000000
595 2010-12-06 06:09:57 <MT`AwAy> to avoid float rounding issues, bitcoin works only in integer
596 2010-12-06 06:10:18 <MT`AwAy> genjix: 3 btc could be 3.00000001 btc, unless specified you don't know
597 2010-12-06 06:10:22 <andrew12> bitcoin could use doubles
598 2010-12-06 06:10:29 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: same issue
599 2010-12-06 06:10:35 <andrew12> I don't understand
600 2010-12-06 06:10:38 <genjix> well then 3 btc in that case isnt exact
601 2010-12-06 06:10:53 <genjix> 3 or 3.00000 are jus representations of the same thing :)
602 2010-12-06 06:11:07 <MT`AwAy> genjix: fuck it, I just wanted it to look cool, that's all (and you need to add exactly 0 zeroes)
603 2010-12-06 06:11:08 <MT`AwAy> 8*
604 2010-12-06 06:11:14 <genjix> if I wrote pi
605 2010-12-06 06:11:15 <andrew12> lol
606 2010-12-06 06:11:22 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: confirmed?
607 2010-12-06 06:11:27 <andrew12> 3.14159265358979
608 2010-12-06 06:11:28 <andrew12> finally
609 2010-12-06 06:11:28 <genjix> is that less acurate than the entire digits of pi forever?
610 2010-12-06 06:11:46 <andrew12> sentt to taabl
611 2010-12-06 06:12:12 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/068866efe3e7f86d25af9537301fa0982b96f756cebcbd35d7c62f7e6e387337
612 2010-12-06 06:12:19 <andrew12> now it'll add the next 3 automagically
613 2010-12-06 06:12:37 <andrew12> lol
614 2010-12-06 06:12:47 <MT`AwAy> andrew12: if you ever want to send 3 btc back, you can send to the "from address" listed in the transaction
615 2010-12-06 06:13:18 <andrew12> yeah
616 2010-12-06 06:14:02 <genjix> ;;totalbc
617 2010-12-06 06:14:02 <gribble> Error: "totalbc" is not a valid command.
618 2010-12-06 06:14:09 <genjix> bc,totalbc
619 2010-12-06 06:14:14 <andrew12> ;;bc,total
620 2010-12-06 06:14:14 <gribble> Error: "bc,total" is not a valid command.
621 2010-12-06 06:14:19 <andrew12> ;;bc,totalbc
622 2010-12-06 06:14:20 <gribble> 4795300.00000000
623 2010-12-06 06:14:26 <genjix> thanks
624 2010-12-06 06:14:27 <andrew12> ding ding ding ding ding
625 2010-12-06 06:14:43 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
626 2010-12-06 06:14:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.225,"low":0.185,"vol":5604,"buy":0.185,"sell":0.2249,"last":0.185}}
627 2010-12-06 06:14:46 <jgarzik> We are now under US$1,000,000 economy again.
628 2010-12-06 06:15:06 <andrew12> good or bad?
629 2010-12-06 06:15:06 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
630 2010-12-06 06:15:13 <genjix> neither
631 2010-12-06 06:15:21 <andrew12> lol
632 2010-12-06 06:15:38 <Lysacor> Seems like a single transaction caused a bit of a drop, someone apparently wanted to unload their BTC for LRUSD
633 2010-12-06 06:15:53 <Lysacor> didn't care if they took a loss, unless they had plenty of BTC to begin with
634 2010-12-06 06:16:29 <Diablo-D3> man
635 2010-12-06 06:16:29 <genjix> satoshi
636 2010-12-06 06:16:31 <Diablo-D3> wheres brocktice
637 2010-12-06 06:17:19 <joe_1> a selloff by satoshi is actually a good thing
638 2010-12-06 06:17:26 <Lysacor> yep, puts more into the system
639 2010-12-06 06:17:40 <joe_1> that, and it legitimizes the wealth base of bitcoin
640 2010-12-06 06:17:42 <Lysacor> and actually makes an awesome time to buy BTC too
641 2010-12-06 06:18:24 <genjix> erm but the price of bitcoins hasnt changed
642 2010-12-06 06:18:30 <genjix> only the selling price
643 2010-12-06 06:18:46 <genjix> which is annoying.
644 2010-12-06 06:18:51 <Lysacor> lemme check out the market charts... bet the technical indicators will start swinging
645 2010-12-06 06:18:52 <Lysacor> give it time
646 2010-12-06 06:18:59 <a_meteorite> is there any OS X CUDA client?
647 2010-12-06 06:19:29 <joe_1> well i was pointing out earlier that the velocity formula would have bitcoin at 0.028 per coin, so the current price means the market is predicting a 7 fold increase in the bitcoin economy
648 2010-12-06 06:20:06 <genjix> joe_1: what is the velocity formula and how does it work?
649 2010-12-06 06:20:14 <MT`AwAy> rm wallet.dat
650 2010-12-06 06:20:18 <Lysacor> it'd be nice to see, early adopters would get a nice niche start
651 2010-12-06 06:20:22 <genjix> naturally googling only gives physics questions
652 2010-12-06 06:21:32 <joe_1> the velocity formula of money states that velocity is gdp / money supply
653 2010-12-06 06:21:49 <andrew12> gobs and gobs of liquid gold
654 2010-12-06 06:21:51 <genjix> cool
655 2010-12-06 06:21:56 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
656 2010-12-06 06:22:51 <MT`AwAy> gdp of who ? :D
657 2010-12-06 06:23:11 <a_meteorite> is there any OS X CUDA client?
658 2010-12-06 06:23:12 <Lysacor> man if I only had LRUSD available...
659 2010-12-06 06:23:16 <joe_1> for us, it's the "Bitcoins sent last 24h" figure from bitcoinwatch.com, multiplied by 365
660 2010-12-06 06:23:24 <andrew12> http://taabl.datlatec.com/details?pick=6.89426
661 2010-12-06 06:23:33 <andrew12> the pot will be 500 in 6 block
662 2010-12-06 06:23:34 <andrew12> the pot will be 500 in 6 blocks
663 2010-12-06 06:23:45 <andrew12> goodnight
664 2010-12-06 06:23:56 <genjix> joe_1: ok thats just bad math
665 2010-12-06 06:24:14 <genjix> 1 day is a crappy sample size considering the deviation involved
666 2010-12-06 06:24:45 <genjix> its completely unreliable
667 2010-12-06 06:24:46 <genjix> http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/variance_simulator/
668 2010-12-06 06:24:49 <genjix> click submit
669 2010-12-06 06:25:38 <joe_1> wikileaks takes bitcoins now?
670 2010-12-06 06:25:42 <jgarzik> no
671 2010-12-06 06:25:45 <jgarzik> thank goodness
672 2010-12-06 06:25:51 <a_meteorite> who cares if its related to wikileaks...?
673 2010-12-06 06:26:03 <genjix> check out the thread
674 2010-12-06 06:26:08 <jrabbit> lol.
675 2010-12-06 06:26:11 <joe_1> the Government will shut us down if they accept bitcoins
676 2010-12-06 06:26:17 <jrabbit> joe_1: haha
677 2010-12-06 06:26:18 <a_meteorite> lol
678 2010-12-06 06:26:19 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1735.0
679 2010-12-06 06:26:19 <MT`AwAy> joe_1: how?
680 2010-12-06 06:26:26 <a_meteorite> I'd like to see them try
681 2010-12-06 06:26:29 <joe_1> they'll blow away the freenode channel,
682 2010-12-06 06:26:33 <joe_1> they'll blow away bitcoin.org,
683 2010-12-06 06:26:39 <jrabbit> a_meteorite: atm its centralzied on an irc server
684 2010-12-06 06:26:42 <jrabbit> joe_1: uh
685 2010-12-06 06:26:44 <a_meteorite> wikileaks.org is still around
686 2010-12-06 06:26:54 <jrabbit> thats not how the us operates
687 2010-12-06 06:28:06 <joe_1> i hope you're right
688 2010-12-06 06:29:23 <MT`AwAy> joe_1: more than anything, by attacking bitcoins they'll provide a bigger effect than /.
689 2010-12-06 06:30:01 <OneFixt> they will most certainly destroy bitcoins
690 2010-12-06 06:30:12 <OneFixt> we're not invincible, please don't get carried away
691 2010-12-06 06:30:35 <OneFixt> all they have to do is say it's somehow against the law, and that will scare away new legitimate users
692 2010-12-06 06:30:50 <OneFixt> leaving the network too weak to resist any organized attack
693 2010-12-06 06:30:56 <genjix> It doesnt matter they claim its too slow to move big amounts of money and might use it when its more official and not just a test project.
694 2010-12-06 06:30:59 <genjix> Sorry for trying to do something.
695 2010-12-06 06:31:00 <genjix> ------
696 2010-12-06 06:31:02 <genjix> I asked them when there was no public outcry yet. Then kiba and the rest posted how its a bad idea since then i have not talked to them. once i read satoshi's post, I checked irc and talked about the status of it being implemented and they claim its not good enought to actually profit them.
697 2010-12-06 06:31:06 <jrabbit> paranoid
698 2010-12-06 06:31:07 <jrabbit> lol
699 2010-12-06 06:31:08 <genjix> it's a moot point anyway.
700 2010-12-06 06:31:35 <genjix> wikileaks has said no about bitcoin.
701 2010-12-06 06:32:14 <OneFixt> ah, still, thank you for trying genjix
702 2010-12-06 06:32:22 <OneFixt> it's gotten too hot lately, but otherwise it's a good idea
703 2010-12-06 06:32:38 <OneFixt> and the publicity would have been really grat
704 2010-12-06 06:32:40 <OneFixt> great*
705 2010-12-06 06:32:52 <OneFixt> just tough timing, with it being the biggest target around nowadays
706 2010-12-06 06:35:26 <joe_1> i wonder if wikileaks is going to continue after assange is executed
707 2010-12-06 06:36:29 <a_meteorite> if Assange is assassinated all hell will likely break loose
708 2010-12-06 06:36:51 <MT`AwAy> most likely finally going to see the password of a 1.4GB file too
709 2010-12-06 06:37:07 <a_meteorite> yup
710 2010-12-06 06:37:10 <a_meteorite> untold secrets
711 2010-12-06 06:37:15 <joe_1> well he brought it on himself by deciding to be a public figurehead for the site. the right way to run those types of sites is to create an anonymous pseudo-identity and never show your real face.
712 2010-12-06 06:37:50 <a_meteorite> actually that's smart... if anything happens to him it will be seen as too coincidental
713 2010-12-06 06:38:21 <genjix> joe_1: actually that's false. he did do that
714 2010-12-06 06:38:21 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: except if it involves unrelated charges such as ... rape?
715 2010-12-06 06:38:36 <genjix> but US newspapers were writing made up bullshit about wikileaks founder
716 2010-12-06 06:38:43 <genjix> so he had t come out
717 2010-12-06 06:38:44 <a_meteorite> those already look pretty trumped up as it is... c'mon... Interpol doing a warrant?
718 2010-12-06 06:39:02 <genjix> a_meteorite: actually it's not rape. he fucked a girl with a broken condom
719 2010-12-06 06:39:12 <a_meteorite> *allegedly
720 2010-12-06 06:39:18 <genjix> (it even says so on wikipedia)
721 2010-12-06 06:39:23 <genjix> yep, its just bullshit
722 2010-12-06 06:39:29 <genjix> slander.
723 2010-12-06 06:39:35 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: anyway if he is stopped because of rape, any complaint from wikileaks will be easily shut off by governements
724 2010-12-06 06:39:51 <a_meteorite> also since when does Interpol do international warrants for a single man? for rape? seriously? that's probably the lowest thing Interpol has cared about for a long time
725 2010-12-06 06:39:54 <MT`AwAy> even if there was no rape
726 2010-12-06 06:40:03 <a_meteorite> the day after they announce a new big release
727 2010-12-06 06:40:07 <a_meteorite> it's a conspiracy
728 2010-12-06 06:40:33 <a_meteorite> the government wants Assange's head on the spear of the media
729 2010-12-06 06:40:58 <a_meteorite> governments of the world rather... not particularly any one... US at the forefront though
730 2010-12-06 06:41:14 <MT`AwAy> for now I believe the US governement is pushing for Assange to be found guilty of something unrelated to make him "the bad guy"
731 2010-12-06 06:42:28 <MT`AwAy> once he's "the bad guy" just send superman & batman to give him to the good guys at the CIA
732 2010-12-06 06:43:57 <a_meteorite> it's easy to kill the messenger
733 2010-12-06 06:44:15 <a_meteorite> the media lately has started to become less critical of WL though
734 2010-12-06 06:44:29 <a_meteorite> slightly
735 2010-12-06 06:44:46 <MT`AwAy> they want to kill him in a way that will not make him a martyr, if possible
736 2010-12-06 06:44:54 <joe_1> exactly
737 2010-12-06 06:45:29 <a_meteorite> I think WL can continue to operate even without Assange though
738 2010-12-06 06:45:58 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: and we may even see WL clones appear
739 2010-12-06 06:46:04 <a_meteorite> I'm not an insider of any sort, but Assange doesn't do everything... he's the guy in front receiving all the shitstorm
740 2010-12-06 06:47:03 <a_meteorite> as long as WL (or clones like you say) exist that can get the word out to the media and protect whistleblowers' privacy... there will always be a wikileaks
741 2010-12-06 06:47:16 <a_meteorite> as long as there are dirty secrets
742 2010-12-06 06:47:42 <a_meteorite> governments of the world are not ready for this. they never were. they're content with citizens being in the dark.
743 2010-12-06 06:47:42 <MT`AwAy> well, as long as there are humans, there'll be dirty secrets
744 2010-12-06 06:48:26 <a_meteorite> there will be a HUGE push for ways to pull the plug on these sites and to treat these groups as terrorists to allow for ways to secretly get them
745 2010-12-06 06:48:51 <a_meteorite> the first cyber war anyone?
746 2010-12-06 06:49:19 <ne0futur> will be many terrorists
747 2010-12-06 06:49:27 <ne0futur> theres already more than 200 mirrors
748 2010-12-06 06:49:33 <ne0futur> probably 2000 very soon
749 2010-12-06 06:49:56 <a_meteorite> yup
750 2010-12-06 06:50:10 <MT`AwAy> terrorists are called so until they establish their own governement, then they are called revolutionaries or something of the like
751 2010-12-06 06:50:24 <ne0futur> or heroes
752 2010-12-06 06:50:25 <a_meteorite> one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
753 2010-12-06 06:50:49 <MT`AwAy> just depends from which side you are looking
754 2010-12-06 06:50:55 <joe_1> isn't the Farc a group in south america that the US calls a terrorist organization but it's really better than the established government?
755 2010-12-06 06:50:58 <a_meteorite> yeah
756 2010-12-06 06:51:32 <a_meteorite> wouldn't be surprised... CIA funded lots of dictatorships... groups we now call terrorists, etc...
757 2010-12-06 06:52:07 <a_meteorite> all is fine and well if it supports our government's interests, fuck human rights and democracy, as long as our citizens don't know about it
758 2010-12-06 06:52:34 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: even better if you can make them believe you are helping human rights and democracy
759 2010-12-06 06:53:02 <a_meteorite> heh, yup
760 2010-12-06 06:53:16 <a_meteorite> it's easy to lie about something that's happening half way across the world
761 2010-12-06 06:53:20 <Diablo-D3> isnt it a website that iaggregates news?
762 2010-12-06 06:53:23 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, thats fark
763 2010-12-06 07:03:20 <appamatto> Do you really think Satoshi is just a pseudonym?
764 2010-12-06 07:03:35 <appamatto> or pseudo-identity?
765 2010-12-06 07:14:35 <Diablo-D3> dude
766 2010-12-06 07:14:39 <Diablo-D3> I bet its really jullian
767 2010-12-06 07:14:46 <Diablo-D3> I mean, jullian is a foss coder
768 2010-12-06 07:14:51 <Diablo-D3> so satoshi could be jullian
769 2010-12-06 07:16:56 <a_meteorite> figured I'd actually fire up bitcoin
770 2010-12-06 07:17:11 <a_meteorite> how long does it take before I can actually start hashing? still receiving blocks >_<
771 2010-12-06 07:17:28 <MT`AwAy> appamatto: it's obvious for me who live in Japan that Satoshi is not japanese at all, however I can't tell what he is
772 2010-12-06 07:17:37 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: depend on your connection speed & other peer's speed
773 2010-12-06 07:18:07 <a_meteorite> SetBestChain: new best=0000000087d1d2b44340  height=12496  work=53675025314001
774 2010-12-06 07:18:17 <MT`AwAy> (btw anyone heared that "anonymous" is planning to attack amazon in response to their dropping of wikileaks?)
775 2010-12-06 07:18:59 <a_meteorite> what's their latest site they've been using to plan from again?
776 2010-12-06 07:19:07 <a_meteorite> they had one where they were announcing new targets daily
777 2010-12-06 07:20:05 <a_meteorite> operation payback right?
778 2010-12-06 07:22:10 <a_meteorite> hmmm nope their current target is IFPI
779 2010-12-06 07:25:09 <a_meteorite> I wouldn't be surprised if they turnn their sights to amazon, everydns, and paypal soon enough
780 2010-12-06 07:25:40 <jgarzik> interesting... bitcoin implementation came before bitcoin paper
781 2010-12-06 07:25:54 <MT`AwAy> a_meteorite: I don't think anyone needs to tell anonymous members what to do
782 2010-12-06 07:26:05 <MT`AwAy> anyway, any attempt would result in a reply similar to "not your personal army"
783 2010-12-06 07:26:20 <a_meteorite> MT`AwAy: http://anonops.net/anonops/Main_Page
784 2010-12-06 07:26:36 <a_meteorite> I remember that site is being used for organizing attacks from anonymous...
785 2010-12-06 07:26:55 <a_meteorite> they say who and when to attack and the sites go down. so, yes, there seems to be some organization.
786 2010-12-06 07:27:19 <a_meteorite> from whom I have no idea, but anon is listening to these anons.
787 2010-12-06 07:27:31 <genjix> gavinandresen: hey I'm using SVN. running .17 gives those error messages. but bitcoin functions otherwise.
788 2010-12-06 07:35:21 <genjix> someone's spamming the forums
789 2010-12-06 07:37:39 <xelister> what the fuck @ mtgox exchange rate
790 2010-12-06 07:43:54 <MT`AwAy> xelister: same as 1 hour ago
791 2010-12-06 07:44:09 <MT`AwAy> well, not much different
792 2010-12-06 08:39:03 <genjix> gavinandresen: hey can I remove the api method list on the wiki page?
793 2010-12-06 08:39:08 <genjix> it's very misleading
794 2010-12-06 08:41:09 <MT`AwAy> genjix: why remove it?
795 2010-12-06 08:41:22 <MT`AwAy> if it's misleading, improve it to make it non misleading
796 2010-12-06 08:41:41 <genjix> me and Hogofwar yesterday spent an hour trying to make sense
797 2010-12-06 08:41:53 <genjix> turned out theres an api mismatch between svn and release
798 2010-12-06 08:41:58 <MT`AwAy> it helped me greatly when I wrote smsz.net
799 2010-12-06 08:42:00 <genjix> better to just remove that part.
800 2010-12-06 08:42:09 <genjix> ./bitcoind help
801 2010-12-06 08:42:14 <genjix> that's up-to-date
802 2010-12-06 08:42:33 <MT`AwAy> doesn't give much infos on results, especially when you touch bitcoin the first time and don't have any transactions yet to try
803 2010-12-06 08:42:55 <genjix> ?
804 2010-12-06 08:43:02 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
805 2010-12-06 08:43:09 <genjix> i mean remove that section labelled 'Methods'
806 2010-12-06 08:43:18 <genjix> it's redundant and causes confusion.
807 2010-12-06 08:43:54 <genjix> btw, how can I check whether a bitcoind instance is running or not?
808 2010-12-06 08:43:55 <MT`AwAy> the description also contains infos on the result value, which might be useful in some cases
809 2010-12-06 08:44:05 <MT`AwAy> genjix: I guess if you can't connect to it, it's not running
810 2010-12-06 08:44:15 <genjix> how do you check that?
811 2010-12-06 08:44:23 <genjix> $bitcoin = new jsonRPCClient('http://root:root@127.0.0.1:8332/');
812 2010-12-06 08:44:33 <genjix> how can I check that was sucessful?
813 2010-12-06 08:44:48 <MT`AwAy> this is not successful or not
814 2010-12-06 08:44:54 <MT`AwAy> building the object does nothing in fact
815 2010-12-06 08:45:03 <MT`AwAy> when you call a method, then, you'll know if it's running or not
816 2010-12-06 08:45:08 <MT`AwAy> you may want to run getinfo, for example
817 2010-12-06 08:45:34 <genjix> does php have exceptions?
818 2010-12-06 08:45:40 <MT`AwAy> it does
819 2010-12-06 08:45:42 <genjix> aha
820 2010-12-06 08:45:53 <MT`AwAy> I don't know if your jsonRPCClient class will throw one
821 2010-12-06 08:45:56 <genjix> thank you
822 2010-12-06 08:46:03 <genjix> yep i guess it does, let me try
823 2010-12-06 08:46:21 <MT`AwAy> try { $res = $bitcoin->getinfo(); } catch(Exception $e) { echo "argh"; }
824 2010-12-06 08:47:24 <genjix> works. thanks MT`AwAy
825 2010-12-06 08:47:35 <MT`AwAy> np
826 2010-12-06 10:13:20 <genjix> MT`AwAy: was it you asking for suggestions for a custom bitcoin client?
827 2010-12-06 10:23:57 <btcex> tcatm: hi! why btcexRUB is displayed with +% but arrow is to down?
828 2010-12-06 10:24:07 <btcex> http://www.bitcoincharts.com/markets/
829 2010-12-06 10:24:11 <btcex> it is ok?
830 2010-12-06 11:04:19 <MT`AwAy> [20:13:21] <genjix> MT`AwAy: was it you asking for suggestions for a custom bitcoin client? <- it's me
831 2010-12-06 11:08:03 <genjix> MT`AwAy: how about for the list showing transactions, make the entries +ve green and -ev red
832 2010-12-06 11:08:36 <MT`AwAy> mh, that's mostly cosmetic, I think it'll be part of the theme engine
833 2010-12-06 11:08:44 <genjix> you using css?
834 2010-12-06 11:08:48 <btcex> genjix: colorblind every hundredth man
835 2010-12-06 11:08:53 <btcex> approximately
836 2010-12-06 11:09:12 <MT`AwAy> genjix: yep, I'll be using Qt styling over css and giving the ability to customize it
837 2010-12-06 11:09:19 <genjix> nice
838 2010-12-06 11:09:33 <MT`AwAy> that's really easy to do
839 2010-12-06 11:09:41 <genjix> yep
840 2010-12-06 11:09:47 <MT`AwAy> I'll just have to give a different class to each line and it should do the trick
841 2010-12-06 11:09:54 <MT`AwAy> and people will be able to share their css ;)
842 2010-12-06 11:10:52 <genjix> is there a way to load css from files in qt? because I load it into an QString and pass it to setStyleSheet
843 2010-12-06 11:11:09 <MT`AwAy> I think it's the only way
844 2010-12-06 11:11:11 <genjix> but I'd prefer loadStylesheetFromFile but couldn't find it.
845 2010-12-06 11:11:13 <genjix> ok
846 2010-12-06 11:11:22 <MT`AwAy> personally I let people in other apps create ".theme" files where they can also put images
847 2010-12-06 11:11:27 <MT`AwAy> then reference those with image://
848 2010-12-06 11:11:31 <MT`AwAy> er
849 2010-12-06 11:11:33 <MT`AwAy> with theme://
850 2010-12-06 11:11:46 <MT`AwAy> if you want to load a theme directly, I think the only option is to use @import()
851 2010-12-06 11:11:54 <MT`AwAy> I think Qt implements it
852 2010-12-06 11:12:05 <genjix> is that cross platform?
853 2010-12-06 11:12:09 <MT`AwAy> it is
854 2010-12-06 11:13:47 <genjix> where can I find more info on that?
855 2010-12-06 11:14:02 <genjix> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb773190(VS.85).aspx
856 2010-12-06 11:14:05 <genjix> is it that?
857 2010-12-06 11:14:16 <MT`AwAy> no
858 2010-12-06 11:14:19 <MT`AwAy> it was home made
859 2010-12-06 11:14:20 <MT`AwAy> :D
860 2010-12-06 11:14:25 <genjix> ah ok :D
861 2010-12-06 11:14:37 <MT`AwAy> (ab)using some Qt features
862 2010-12-06 11:14:53 <genjix> ah i get it now. makes sense
863 2010-12-06 11:15:09 <genjix> myspecialtheme://blaa/image.png
864 2010-12-06 11:16:26 <MT`AwAy> in fact the theme file (an archive of multiple files, gzipped) is loaded, and theme:// urls were handled internally and the files picked from the theme file
865 2010-12-06 11:17:06 <genjix> they do the same in Crystal Space's Virtual File System
866 2010-12-06 11:17:17 <genjix> there's a file called vfs.cfg
867 2010-12-06 11:17:41 <genjix> you can define mountpoints which can point to zip files, directories, servers .etc
868 2010-12-06 11:17:47 <MT`AwAy> :p
869 2010-12-06 11:17:54 <MT`AwAy> except here the archive is in fact a qrc file
870 2010-12-06 11:17:55 <genjix> then reference the file like a unix filesystem
871 2010-12-06 11:18:38 <CIA-84> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rb3394d2 / pom.xml : Fix typo in pom.xml - http://bit.ly/eC72y0
872 2010-12-06 11:23:23 <btcex> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=bitcoin
873 2010-12-06 11:24:05 <MT`AwAy> wtf is that
874 2010-12-06 11:25:06 <tcatm> btcex: fixed the arrow
875 2010-12-06 11:25:07 <btcex> MT`AwAy: First AI in the world
876 2010-12-06 11:25:14 <btcex> tcatm: ok
877 2010-12-06 11:25:40 <MT`AwAy> btcex: I mean a "US bit", some kind of money?
878 2010-12-06 11:25:43 <btcex> MT`AwAy: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=japan
879 2010-12-06 11:26:10 <btcex> MT`AwAy: I don't know, probably wolframalpha don't understand me
880 2010-12-06 11:26:29 <MT`AwAy> you bet, how come would it know about bitcoins
881 2010-12-06 11:33:56 <btcex> I am try to teach him
882 2010-12-06 11:34:09 <MT`AwAy> you can ?
883 2010-12-06 11:34:10 <MT`AwAy> xD
884 2010-12-06 11:34:17 <MT`AwAy> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=now <- it's impressive, it uses my local timezone
885 2010-12-06 11:37:18 <btcex> MT`AwAy: GeoIP + JavaScript
886 2010-12-06 11:37:27 <MT`AwAy> btcex: yep, still nice
887 2010-12-06 11:37:45 <MT`AwAy> (well, I do almost the same, except my database is far from complete)
888 2010-12-06 11:38:40 <btcex> Can I upload my own data to Wolfram|Alpha?
889 2010-12-06 11:38:41 <btcex> You can analyze small amounts of data by submitting it in the input field. The future Professional version will allow larger-scale uploading. You can also submit data to be considered for inclusion in the main Wolfram|Alpha system.
890 2010-12-06 11:39:18 <MT`AwAy> or you can use your local version of mathematica, and analyze data directly
891 2010-12-06 11:40:19 <genjix> http://92.7.201.223/
892 2010-12-06 11:40:22 <genjix> can anyone see that?
893 2010-12-06 11:40:38 <MT`AwAy> "this github pages thing is awesome."
894 2010-12-06 11:40:39 <MT`AwAy> mh?
895 2010-12-06 11:40:56 <MT`AwAy> "WOW. THIS GITHUB PAGES THING IS AWESOME. IT'S LIKE, THE FUCKING......THE FUTURE, OR SOME SHIT. WOW."
896 2010-12-06 11:40:57 <genjix> thanks
897 2010-12-06 11:41:02 <MT`AwAy> I don't know what you smoked
898 2010-12-06 11:41:25 <genjix> damn im not a networking guy but for some reason both my computers have the same external ip
899 2010-12-06 11:41:39 <MT`AwAy> genjix: isn't that called a NAT ?
900 2010-12-06 11:42:05 <genjix> how do i fix it then?
901 2010-12-06 11:42:53 <MT`AwAy> ask more external ips to your ISP ?
902 2010-12-06 11:43:18 <btcex> or move to IPv6 :)
903 2010-12-06 11:43:36 <redMBA> or tunnel to a second IP
904 2010-12-06 11:43:44 <genjix> :o
905 2010-12-06 11:44:13 <genjix> im just going to change the default 'nat'
906 2010-12-06 11:44:46 <MT`AwAy> "nat" is great because there's not many ipv4 remaining, so multiple computers can share the same ip
907 2010-12-06 11:45:55 <Diablo-D3> [07:40:55] <MT`AwAy> "WOW. THIS GITHUB PAGES THING IS AWESOME. IT'S LIKE, THE FUCKING......THE FUTURE, OR SOME SHIT. WOW."
908 2010-12-06 11:45:59 <Diablo-D3> my brain hurts.
909 2010-12-06 11:46:13 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: I was just quoting genjix's url's content
910 2010-12-06 11:47:37 <btcex> MT`AwAy: You have IPv6 address?
911 2010-12-06 11:47:52 <Diablo-D3> btw
912 2010-12-06 11:47:54 <Diablo-D3> technically
913 2010-12-06 11:47:57 <Diablo-D3> we live in the future
914 2010-12-06 11:47:59 <Diablo-D3> already
915 2010-12-06 11:48:03 <genjix> http://92.7.201.223/
916 2010-12-06 11:48:12 <genjix> should say "hello bitcoiners" now
917 2010-12-06 11:48:14 <Diablo-D3> the future either started in 2001 or in 2010
918 2010-12-06 11:48:24 <tcatm> genjix: it does :)
919 2010-12-06 11:48:27 <Diablo-D3> POSSIBLY 2015, but I think thats too late
920 2010-12-06 11:48:31 <genjix> i feel like that all the time :)
921 2010-12-06 11:48:33 <genjix> thanks tcatm
922 2010-12-06 11:49:40 <MT`AwAy> genjix: I do
923 2010-12-06 11:50:04 <genjix> cool
924 2010-12-06 11:50:04 <MT`AwAy> er
925 2010-12-06 11:50:06 <MT`AwAy> btcex: I do
926 2010-12-06 11:51:36 <btcex> MT`AwAy: ping6 btcex.com
927 2010-12-06 11:51:39 <btcex> ?
928 2010-12-06 11:51:46 <btcex> or traceroute6
929 2010-12-06 11:53:40 <MT`AwAy> # ping6 btcex.com
930 2010-12-06 11:53:41 <MT`AwAy> PING btcex.com(btcex.com) 56 data bytes
931 2010-12-06 11:53:57 <MT`AwAy> (pinging from the exact same server provider where btcex.com is)
932 2010-12-06 11:54:34 <btcex> ok, cool :)
933 2010-12-06 12:18:36 <xelister> huhm.
934 2010-12-06 12:18:48 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I run once more your miner, and now it doesnt seem to print the warnings
935 2010-12-06 12:18:54 <xelister> or is it just because I skipped -d flag