1 2010-12-07 00:01:10 <xelister> Diablo-D3: ok I will run test
2 2010-12-07 00:01:29 <xelister> can anyone with a 5970 please join the testnet?
3 2010-12-07 00:01:45 <xelister> so I can compare my speed with others
4 2010-12-07 00:07:43 <DDevine> Greetings.
5 2010-12-07 00:07:53 <DDevine> Who do I email to get something added to the FAQ?
6 2010-12-07 00:09:39 <Kiba> wee!
7 2010-12-07 00:09:48 <DDevine> I can write both the question and answer.
8 2010-12-07 00:09:58 <Kiba> we don't know what your question is
9 2010-12-07 00:10:00 <Kiba> and your answer is
10 2010-12-07 00:10:07 <Kiba> post on the forum
11 2010-12-07 00:10:13 <Kiba> and somebody will surely notice it
12 2010-12-07 00:10:45 <DDevine> But I am lazy and not even part of the community. I guess I'll just quickly join the mailing list.
13 2010-12-07 00:11:14 <bencoder> there's a mailing list?
14 2010-12-07 00:11:43 <DDevine> ah crap you guys don't have a mailing list?
15 2010-12-07 00:11:53 <DDevine> Unusual.
16 2010-12-07 00:11:54 <Kiba> Nope.
17 2010-12-07 00:12:13 <Kiba> maybe we could implement a way anonymous people can post, like a bitcoin transaction?
18 2010-12-07 00:12:55 <bencoder> DDevine: the forum is the FAQ :P
19 2010-12-07 00:13:50 <Zarutian> Kiba: so a node that is reachable via an mixminion anonymouse remailer (often called type III anon remailer)?
20 2010-12-07 00:14:41 <Kiba> don't know
21 2010-12-07 00:14:45 <[Noodles]> the one to email would be sirius-m, i think
22 2010-12-07 00:15:10 <Kiba> we need to organize a more comperhensive FAQ, methink
23 2010-12-07 00:18:22 <Zarutian> Kiba: but posting the transaction anonymously wouldnt help if someone examining the block chain could connect the two btc-addrs' together
24 2010-12-07 00:20:22 <DDevine> [Noodles]: Do you have an email address I can send to?
25 2010-12-07 00:21:39 <Zarutian> ACTION is, as always, accepting tips at 1MYWGLJfR7W1tMez8ZVkgo8MR8o9sWJpSi
26 2010-12-07 00:24:49 <Kiba> bencoder: It would be nice to have a database of how much money I am making each day. Also a serect URL in case I need to download my own file?
27 2010-12-07 00:25:50 <Kiba> DDevine: well, there's more to that, as I said on twitter
28 2010-12-07 00:26:02 <Kiba> basically, bitcoin generation incentivize miners to process transactions
29 2010-12-07 00:26:19 <Kiba> that's more improtant than coining money
30 2010-12-07 00:26:27 <bencoder> Kiba: I have a record of all transactions, i just haven't made a view/interface for them yet
31 2010-12-07 00:27:03 <CyanDynamo> "I'm considering the possibility of an alt-currency not backed by a physical commodity. Each unit would be a share of a pool of donated restitution claims. We'd need a standard data format for claims, first and foremost. Ideas on that?"
32 2010-12-07 00:27:07 <CyanDynamo> lol
33 2010-12-07 00:27:39 <bencoder> hehe
34 2010-12-07 00:27:41 <Kiba> well folks
35 2010-12-07 00:27:43 <jgarzik> A test version of cpuminer, with crypto++ 32-bit assembly implementation, has been pushed out to git, and a test installer for Windows uploaded at http://yyz.us/bitcoin/cpuminer-installer-0.2.2test.zip
36 2010-12-07 00:27:44 <Kiba> WE JUST BROKE RECORD
37 2010-12-07 00:28:06 <Kiba> 101 Most Online Today
38 2010-12-07 00:28:11 <Kiba> we finally broke July record
39 2010-12-07 00:28:15 <bencoder> wow
40 2010-12-07 00:28:22 <OneFixt> 111?
41 2010-12-07 00:30:28 <DDevine> Kiba: I don't use Twitter... Identi.ca just forwards stuff to my twitter account that I never log into :)
42 2010-12-07 00:32:49 <DDevine> Gah teh twitter infrace is horrid!
43 2010-12-07 00:32:57 <DDevine> and I can't type properly today
44 2010-12-07 00:33:45 <Kiba> I think we got a wave of traffic somewhere
45 2010-12-07 00:34:19 <Kiba> Twitter is hyperactive
46 2010-12-07 00:34:42 <Diablo-D3> I dont use twitter
47 2010-12-07 00:34:47 <Diablo-D3> I dont even have a twitter account
48 2010-12-07 00:35:00 <Diablo-D3> I dont want to be confused with someone who cares what color the vomit your cat just hoarked up is
49 2010-12-07 00:35:30 <DDevine> Twitter is freakin convoluted. Identi.ca/Statusnet is waaaaaay better.
50 2010-12-07 00:35:34 <DDevine> Its what Twitter should be.
51 2010-12-07 00:35:34 <Diablo-D3> I also dont care what color Aston Kutcher's dick is (its orange, btw)
52 2010-12-07 00:35:53 <DDevine> Though yes, twitter is an orange dick.
53 2010-12-07 00:36:44 <Kiba> YOU ARE AN ORGANCEE DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOCK
54 2010-12-07 00:36:58 <Kiba> blah blah balh
55 2010-12-07 00:37:17 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: I don't read about color of the vomit
56 2010-12-07 00:37:31 <AAA_awright> No one is nerdy enough to respond to http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2035.0 COME ON
57 2010-12-07 00:39:39 <bencoder> it is too late to try and understand right now
58 2010-12-07 00:40:00 <bencoder> late at night, for me, i mean
59 2010-12-07 00:42:45 <AAA_awright> I'm trying to find an algroithm that works... Some way that hashes the private keys but not the balance, yet keeps them cryptographically linked so you can't tamper with them without detecting it... hm
60 2010-12-07 00:45:33 <doublec> lolcat, bitcoind builds but doesn't link due to missing some libboost libraries. I'm looking at what's involved in building those.
61 2010-12-07 00:46:03 <jgarzik> doublec: usable boost should be available in most distros
62 2010-12-07 00:46:17 <doublec> jgarzik, this is for maemo
63 2010-12-07 00:46:22 <doublec> on the N900
64 2010-12-07 00:46:32 <doublec> it has some boost libraries but not libboost_filesystem
65 2010-12-07 00:46:36 <lolcat> doublec: :S
66 2010-12-07 00:46:46 <doublec> it also has an ancient libdb
67 2010-12-07 00:47:20 <doublec> why do libraries ship with HTML build docs these days. It's a pain to read from a terminal.
68 2010-12-07 00:48:38 <tcatm> I need a short name for services like mtgox, mybitcoin or bitcoind from the view of an application that uses them to receive/send bitcoins. Any ideas?
69 2010-12-07 00:49:08 <doublec> bank
70 2010-12-07 00:49:17 <doublec> vault
71 2010-12-07 00:49:34 <doublec> broker
72 2010-12-07 00:49:51 <tcatm> vault sounds good. thanks!
73 2010-12-07 00:51:10 <Zarutian> ACTION rattles his tip jar 1MYWGLJfR7W1tMez8ZVkgo8MR8o9sWJpSi
74 2010-12-07 00:52:18 <tcatm> So now I have Wallet that a presented to the user and have a balance and maybe a list of transactions. They can connect to a vault to send/receive bitcoins. Does that sound right?
75 2010-12-07 00:53:40 <bencoder> you have to do something to make people /want/ to tip you Zarutian... other than annoy them asking for tips
76 2010-12-07 00:55:20 <doublec> tcatm, that sounds great
77 2010-12-07 00:57:12 <Zarutian> bencoder: something like http://pastebin.ca/2012512 ?
78 2010-12-07 00:58:49 <bencoder> doesn't seem to be loading...
79 2010-12-07 00:58:57 <bencoder> Waiting for pastebin.ca
80 2010-12-07 00:59:35 <Zarutian> wait, it just loaded a few secs ago!?
81 2010-12-07 01:00:16 <lolcat> bencoder: It is some uri scheme for bitcoin
82 2010-12-07 01:00:21 <bencoder> i guess the awesomeness of whatever you put on there was too much :P
83 2010-12-07 01:00:30 <bencoder> I see
84 2010-12-07 01:02:44 <doublec> The most popular use of bitcoins is probably speculating and donating
85 2010-12-07 01:03:41 <lolcat> I wish I could use bitcoins to buy stuff
86 2010-12-07 01:04:12 <lolcat> Then i would stop having to pay paypal fees every damn time
87 2010-12-07 01:04:25 <doublec> what fun it will be sitting with your dealer for 15 minutes waiting for the transaction to confirm
88 2010-12-07 01:04:58 <nelisky> doublec: not if they both use tcatm's own vautt/bank
89 2010-12-07 01:05:04 <nelisky> (or mtgox) :)
90 2010-12-07 01:05:05 <doublec> nelisky, good point
91 2010-12-07 01:05:08 <Zarutian> doublec: an excelent time to play one 9x9 game of go
92 2010-12-07 01:05:17 <bencoder> :D
93 2010-12-07 01:05:34 <lolcat> doublec: I use paypal now, it takes about 15 minutes that to, login typing in numbers and calculating price and such
94 2010-12-07 01:05:36 <doublec> we should build a networked go game into the bitcoin protocol
95 2010-12-07 01:05:41 <nelisky> we have way too many solutions... gotta find new problems now :)
96 2010-12-07 01:06:08 <lolcat> I have a problem
97 2010-12-07 01:06:17 <lolcat> My bitcoins was 20% more worth yesterday! :P
98 2010-12-07 01:07:05 <nelisky> and that is a problem why? sell it to me at a 10% discount and that way you won't loose another 20% by tomorrow
99 2010-12-07 01:07:35 <lolcat> Id rather keep it untill 2015 and sell it at 5USD a coin
100 2010-12-07 01:07:37 <bencoder> haha
101 2010-12-07 01:08:06 <bencoder> same, regret selling 1000btc for about $45 a few months ago
102 2010-12-07 01:08:29 <lolcat> bencoder: I'd have given you 50 today! :P
103 2010-12-07 01:08:35 <bencoder> haha
104 2010-12-07 01:09:27 <Zarutian> this is like a reverse hollandish auction or that compition of tractors where the last one wins (but they must move)
105 2010-12-07 01:10:30 <gribble> Error: "btc,calc" is not a valid command.
106 2010-12-07 01:10:30 <OneFixt> ;;btc,calc
107 2010-12-07 01:10:36 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
108 2010-12-07 01:10:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96093 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 674 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11776.72722885
109 2010-12-07 01:14:33 <lolcat> Won't bitcoin die after a few year though?
110 2010-12-07 01:14:54 <Kiba> die after a few year?
111 2010-12-07 01:14:56 <lolcat> Yes
112 2010-12-07 01:15:01 <Kiba> how?
113 2010-12-07 01:15:11 <lolcat> because each time a wallet disseapears there is less bitcoins
114 2010-12-07 01:15:15 <Kiba> no
115 2010-12-07 01:15:26 <Kiba> even if we have 1 BTC
116 2010-12-07 01:15:27 <lolcat> After a certain amount of time, it will be none in circulation
117 2010-12-07 01:15:34 <Kiba> there's plenty of room in the decimal space
118 2010-12-07 01:15:37 <Kiba> lolcat: no
119 2010-12-07 01:15:43 <Kiba> just use 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001
120 2010-12-07 01:15:52 <lolcat> It is inifinite?
121 2010-12-07 01:15:58 <lolcat> I thougth it was 8 or something?
122 2010-12-07 01:16:11 <Kiba> economic calculation is not dependent on the number of bitcoins
123 2010-12-07 01:16:14 <Kiba> but divisbility
124 2010-12-07 01:16:27 <Kiba> and people won't be stupid enough to lose their bitcoin
125 2010-12-07 01:16:31 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: no
126 2010-12-07 01:16:32 <Diablo-D3> its 8
127 2010-12-07 01:16:34 <Kiba> they will keep it safe through lot of backup
128 2010-12-07 01:16:39 <Diablo-D3> but 8 is a fucking shitload
129 2010-12-07 01:16:43 <Diablo-D3> nominally its really 4
130 2010-12-07 01:16:53 <Diablo-D3> since you'd want to keep 2 decimal places plus 2 below it
131 2010-12-07 01:17:15 <Diablo-D3> either that, or yen the problem and just go straight to the 8 and drop decimal places altogether
132 2010-12-07 01:17:19 <Kiba> we need a backup script!
133 2010-12-07 01:17:21 <lolcat> Can anyone send me 0,00000001 bitcoin? 1NxGQCuq4GvQ1Ho8QhF8LkWxp7hwBQoym9
134 2010-12-07 01:17:49 <doublec> we need a #bitcoin-beg
135 2010-12-07 01:18:02 <Kiba> and my computer need to generate some heat!
136 2010-12-07 01:18:07 <Kiba> I wish I have 10 GPUs now!
137 2010-12-07 01:18:13 <Kiba> cause it's cold
138 2010-12-07 01:18:15 <Kiba> BBRRRR
139 2010-12-07 01:18:19 <lolcat> Kiba: People are stupid. Everyone know you should backup, but few does it
140 2010-12-07 01:18:38 <Diablo-D3> I have a 2tb external hd sitting on my desk just for the task
141 2010-12-07 01:18:38 <lolcat> But is there any software now that supports eigth decimals?
142 2010-12-07 01:18:41 <Kiba> than make it stupidly easy to backup
143 2010-12-07 01:18:48 <bencoder> fortunately 1 backup lasts for 100 new addresses :)
144 2010-12-07 01:18:50 <Kiba> super stupidly easy
145 2010-12-07 01:19:00 <ne0futur> lolcat: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
146 2010-12-07 01:19:09 <tcatm> Thanks to however donated a few coins :)
147 2010-12-07 01:19:15 <tcatm> who*
148 2010-12-07 01:19:38 <lolcat> ne0futur: I just wanted to see if I could get a balance of 0,00000001
149 2010-12-07 01:19:55 <lolcat> I have somethink like ~200 bitcoins
150 2010-12-07 01:20:07 <bencoder> my backups just go between different vps's scp the file to a vps in another country
151 2010-12-07 01:21:21 <bencoder> sleep now
152 2010-12-07 01:21:46 <doublec> tcatm, that was me. I would have done more but I sold all my coins recently.
153 2010-12-07 01:22:08 <Kiba> when I am a good artist
154 2010-12-07 01:22:08 <lolcat> doublec: Sold them at the top?
155 2010-12-07 01:22:09 <doublec> tcatm, I'm keen on seeing an android client.
156 2010-12-07 01:22:18 <Kiba> I am going start novel
157 2010-12-07 01:22:20 <doublec> lolcat, I got 0.23 which is fine since I got most of them at 0.08.
158 2010-12-07 01:22:22 <Kiba> start a graphic novel!
159 2010-12-07 01:22:24 <Kiba> MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
160 2010-12-07 01:22:31 <doublec> I needed xmas money :)
161 2010-12-07 01:22:41 <Kiba> kiba will be known for many thing!
162 2010-12-07 01:25:48 <Zarutian> hmm... authorship works commissioned under anon assurance contract would be something no? example: "when the balance of <btc-addr> has gone above x amount then release the file"
163 2010-12-07 01:26:47 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
164 2010-12-07 01:26:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96096 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 671 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 4 hours, 41 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11779.31116194
165 2010-12-07 01:43:18 <doublec> lolcat, bitcoind compiled and ran fine in the maemo sdk x86 test environment. I'll try an actual ARM build now.
166 2010-12-07 01:44:24 <lolcat> doublec: Awesome
167 2010-12-07 01:44:54 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Any idea how bitcoins could be applied in a normal shop? Lets say a grocery store
168 2010-12-07 01:45:16 <Diablo-D3> at that point we'd just roll our own system to do that
169 2010-12-07 01:45:29 <lolcat> but how?
170 2010-12-07 01:45:38 <lolcat> My wallet is on my computer
171 2010-12-07 01:46:19 <Diablo-D3> probably an intelligent device that communicates with your bank and you plug it into the shop's POS
172 2010-12-07 01:46:29 <lolcat> Transfer it to my phone, then use a barcode/bluetooth/wifi/infrared in the shop to get the amount bitcoin adress
173 2010-12-07 01:46:35 <Zarutian> plug or IrDa
174 2010-12-07 01:46:50 <Diablo-D3> plug does not literally mean plug
175 2010-12-07 01:46:52 <lolcat> bitcoin on my phone would be optimal
176 2010-12-07 01:47:03 <Diablo-D3> it could be a display that displays a qr code
177 2010-12-07 01:47:10 <lolcat> I could store my friends adresses, and then transfer to them
178 2010-12-07 01:47:19 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: not on the phone
179 2010-12-07 01:47:25 <Diablo-D3> it'd be something ran by the bank
180 2010-12-07 01:47:39 <lolcat> I thougth the point of bitcoins was to get rid of banks?
181 2010-12-07 01:47:40 <Zarutian> Diablo-D3: hence we theymos put together that uri scheme for bitcoins ;-)
182 2010-12-07 01:47:47 <Diablo-D3> and no, you wouldn't depend on the device connecting to the internet
183 2010-12-07 01:47:51 <Diablo-D3> you'd depend on the POS to do it
184 2010-12-07 01:48:01 <Diablo-D3> so you'd flash, say, a device or a cellphone infront of the POS
185 2010-12-07 01:48:06 <Diablo-D3> and the transaction would be done
186 2010-12-07 01:48:21 <lolcat> Id feel safer with my phone
187 2010-12-07 01:48:30 <lolcat> I could probably have a code to unlock the wallet
188 2010-12-07 01:48:32 <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt
189 2010-12-07 01:48:34 <Diablo-D3> I dont trust phones
190 2010-12-07 01:48:40 <lolcat> Get a adress to send the money to
191 2010-12-07 01:48:49 <Zarutian> similar to writing a cheque. (Only you do it with your smartphone/device instead of by hand)
192 2010-12-07 01:49:10 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: but thats cumbersome and not useful
193 2010-12-07 01:49:18 <Diablo-D3> joe blow or aunt tilly could never figure it out
194 2010-12-07 01:49:51 <lolcat> I know
195 2010-12-07 01:50:01 <lolcat> but flashing a device, how is that safe?
196 2010-12-07 01:50:07 <grondilu> Do you know Jean-Claude Trichet ? Or Christine Lagarde ? What do you think of their english ?
197 2010-12-07 01:50:11 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: define "safe"
198 2010-12-07 01:50:27 <Diablo-D3> its no different than sliding a credit card into a POS
199 2010-12-07 01:50:32 <lolcat> Like my beloved visa magnet strip :)
200 2010-12-07 01:50:50 <lolcat> (I hate those fucking chips)
201 2010-12-07 01:50:52 <Diablo-D3> instead, you'd use private band communications that is only valid for the transaction
202 2010-12-07 01:51:15 <lolcat> Id have to validate the amount on the device?
203 2010-12-07 01:51:34 <Diablo-D3> optimally, yes
204 2010-12-07 01:51:39 <lolcat> Because with a normal creditcard, you validate the amount with a signature or a pin.
205 2010-12-07 01:51:41 <Zarutian> lolcat: or enter it
206 2010-12-07 01:51:48 <lolcat> Zarutian: cumbersome
207 2010-12-07 01:51:52 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: no, you dont validate the _amount_
208 2010-12-07 01:51:59 <Diablo-D3> you dont validate anything with a signature
209 2010-12-07 01:52:00 <ne0futur> grondilu: great one more french here ;)
210 2010-12-07 01:52:08 <Zarutian> then squirt the btc tx at the POS
211 2010-12-07 01:52:10 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I do, I verify I am me, and I validate the amount.
212 2010-12-07 01:52:14 <Diablo-D3> the existence of the card validates the transaction
213 2010-12-07 01:52:26 <Diablo-D3> pin validates the transaction, but not the amount
214 2010-12-07 01:52:32 <lolcat> The amount is on the paper I sign
215 2010-12-07 01:52:41 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I see the amoun on the display
216 2010-12-07 01:52:42 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt mean YOU signed it
217 2010-12-07 01:52:48 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt validate anything
218 2010-12-07 01:52:56 <Diablo-D3> credit card signatures are worthless
219 2010-12-07 01:53:07 <lolcat> I know
220 2010-12-07 01:53:19 <lolcat> But if my creditcard gets raped, VISA pays me back
221 2010-12-07 01:53:33 <lolcat> If my mastercard get stolen, mastercard pays me back
222 2010-12-07 01:53:37 <Zarutian> lolcat: but the merchants dont stay paid
223 2010-12-07 01:53:47 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: in theory, yes.
224 2010-12-07 01:53:58 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: but thats also useless here, and it only papers over the issue
225 2010-12-07 01:54:00 <lolcat> If I type the numbers into a shady website and dont get what I ordered, I get my money back.
226 2010-12-07 01:54:06 <Diablo-D3> it punishes merchants, not people commiting fraud
227 2010-12-07 01:54:22 <lolcat> But fraud prevention is an issue
228 2010-12-07 01:54:23 <Diablo-D3> most fraud is done by identity theft, not shady websites.
229 2010-12-07 01:54:26 <lolcat> With any currency
230 2010-12-07 01:54:28 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: yes, ergo
231 2010-12-07 01:54:29 <Diablo-D3> you have a device
232 2010-12-07 01:54:34 <Diablo-D3> that would handle this
233 2010-12-07 01:55:18 <Kiba> frauds make paypal suck
234 2010-12-07 01:55:33 <Diablo-D3> you can produce a psudeo random security code
235 2010-12-07 01:55:33 <Kiba> plus, people say "Oh, I can just get VISA to reverse the transaction"
236 2010-12-07 01:55:36 <Kiba> it make people...
237 2010-12-07 01:55:42 <Kiba> uncautious
238 2010-12-07 01:55:47 <lolcat> I am thinking like my N900. A pin to unlock the device, it communicated with the till at the shop. I get to see the price, and the device gets the adress. Then I look at the amount, if I concur, I press Accept and the transaction is made.
239 2010-12-07 01:55:53 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: no.
240 2010-12-07 01:56:05 <Diablo-D3> thats entirely too complex
241 2010-12-07 01:56:20 <lolcat> Where is the complexity?
242 2010-12-07 01:56:24 <Diablo-D3> typing too much
243 2010-12-07 01:56:28 <Diablo-D3> and pins are useless
244 2010-12-07 01:56:32 <Zarutian> lolcat: it is better to give a shady website just the btx tx (or if you cant wait for that to be implemented something like ukash, paysafe or webmoney.eu nums and codes)
245 2010-12-07 01:56:38 <lolcat> A 4 digit pin isnt a lot of typing
246 2010-12-07 01:56:46 <Diablo-D3> lol 4 digits
247 2010-12-07 01:56:47 <Diablo-D3> useless
248 2010-12-07 01:56:49 <Diablo-D3> how is that secure
249 2010-12-07 01:56:50 <doublec> using the latest near field communication devices you can just wave your phone at the shop's sale device
250 2010-12-07 01:56:55 <lolcat> s
251 2010-12-07 01:57:02 <Diablo-D3> doublec: this is what Im getting at
252 2010-12-07 01:57:10 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Three tries, then you need a 16 number or even 32 number code
253 2010-12-07 01:57:14 <doublec> for older phones the camera can read a barcode
254 2010-12-07 01:57:20 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: aunt tilly cant handle that
255 2010-12-07 01:57:30 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, lolcat does not understand security
256 2010-12-07 01:57:32 <Diablo-D3> so I give up
257 2010-12-07 01:57:42 <grondilu> ne0futur: I mean : don't you think they sound silly ?
258 2010-12-07 01:57:52 <lolcat> If I just vaive my amount at the till, then it is not anywhere near safe.
259 2010-12-07 01:57:59 <lolcat> my device*
260 2010-12-07 01:58:10 <Zarutian> lolcat: continued: that way you only loose the amount you gave the shady website but not the whole card.
261 2010-12-07 01:58:11 <doublec> You wave it at the till and click "Yes"
262 2010-12-07 01:58:31 <Diablo-D3> but a psudeo random security key based on time and transaction amount, a trusted third party chosen by the user, and using qr codes for shop id and transaction id in both directions could very well work
263 2010-12-07 01:58:52 <lolcat> doublec: That is exactly what I said, except I want a pin on my device
264 2010-12-07 01:59:14 <lolcat> Zarutian: Doesn't mather. From my point of view, it is irrelevant. I get my money back
265 2010-12-07 01:59:30 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: except a pin does not work
266 2010-12-07 01:59:33 <ne0futur> grondilu: most of the french gov _is_ silly :p they dont even need to _look_ silly
267 2010-12-07 01:59:43 <Kiba> who's silly?
268 2010-12-07 01:59:49 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: Why is it used by ALL of the biggest companies now then?
269 2010-12-07 01:59:54 <ne0futur> ( I m french too but left sarko f-Rance )
270 2010-12-07 01:59:59 <Kiba> why those French faggots still celebrate the faggot French revolution/
271 2010-12-07 02:00:00 <Zarutian> lolcat: it does matter. Have you ever had to cancel a card due to breach at a merchant? it isnt a pretty sight
272 2010-12-07 02:00:19 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: because people believe its secure
273 2010-12-07 02:00:20 <Diablo-D3> its not
274 2010-12-07 02:00:21 <lolcat> Zarutian: I haven't. But I am sure my bank will be compliant
275 2010-12-07 02:00:50 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I know. But at least a pin would prevent my friends from picking up my wallet-device and b
276 2010-12-07 02:00:55 <lolcat> uy beer for it
277 2010-12-07 02:00:59 <grondilu> Kiba: we celebrate it because our government wants us to do so. We're nothing but stupid sheeps.
278 2010-12-07 02:01:14 <Zarutian> lolcat: yes but its lot and lot of hassle for transactions lower than 10 bucks or so
279 2010-12-07 02:01:39 <doublec> friends don't let friends use their phone
280 2010-12-07 02:01:41 <lolcat> Zarutian: If I pay 10 bucks, I have to press my 4 digit pin, and then a "Ready" button.
281 2010-12-07 02:01:48 <doublec> when their phone is actually their wallet
282 2010-12-07 02:01:56 <doublec> "Sure Bob, you can borrow my credit card"
283 2010-12-07 02:02:19 <lolcat> I always end up forgetting the stupid pin though
284 2010-12-07 02:02:27 <doublec> pick an easier number
285 2010-12-07 02:02:29 <doublec> 1234
286 2010-12-07 02:02:41 <lolcat> If its not my credicard that would be impossible
287 2010-12-07 02:02:41 <Zarutian> gosh it is the same as on my luggage!
288 2010-12-07 02:03:30 <ArtForz> remind me to change the combination on my luggage
289 2010-12-07 02:04:11 <lolcat> doublec: Can we agree that the bitcoin wallet device should have the possibility to use a pin?
290 2010-12-07 02:04:24 <Diablo-D3> [10:00:51] <lolcat> Diablo-D3: I know. But at least a pin would prevent my friends from picking up my wallet-device and b
291 2010-12-07 02:04:27 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt
292 2010-12-07 02:04:35 <lolcat> How doesn't it?
293 2010-12-07 02:04:40 <Diablo-D3> why would it?
294 2010-12-07 02:04:53 <lolcat> My friends don't know my pin
295 2010-12-07 02:04:58 <Kiba> use a passphrase than a 4 digit pin, lolcat
296 2010-12-07 02:05:09 <Diablo-D3> why do you keep wanting numbers?
297 2010-12-07 02:05:11 <Diablo-D3> thats stupid
298 2010-12-07 02:05:22 <Kiba> a combination of words, numbers, and symbols
299 2010-12-07 02:05:22 <waves281> I was just looking something up on a wikipedia page and their donation page popped up. No bitcoin address. So I emailed them to ask for it :)
300 2010-12-07 02:05:29 <lolcat> Because numbers are easier to type on a small device
301 2010-12-07 02:05:46 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: how so?
302 2010-12-07 02:05:54 <Diablo-D3> many devices dont even have keys anymore
303 2010-12-07 02:05:56 <Kiba> lolcat: if they your device, they will just find a way to bruteforce it
304 2010-12-07 02:06:02 <Kiba> got your device
305 2010-12-07 02:06:04 <lolcat> Ahh
306 2010-12-07 02:06:18 <Diablo-D3> lolcat: a lot of devices have front facing cameras, for example
307 2010-12-07 02:06:26 <lolcat> That is the reason visa verifies the pin towards a server
308 2010-12-07 02:06:34 <ArtForz> yep, pin securing locally stored data = useless
309 2010-12-07 02:06:40 <lolcat> Agreed
310 2010-12-07 02:06:54 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, Im tired of discussing it
311 2010-12-07 02:06:56 <lolcat> You could always have little money in your wallet
312 2010-12-07 02:06:57 <Kiba> just treat it as cash
313 2010-12-07 02:06:59 <Diablo-D3> Im not teaching security 101 tonight
314 2010-12-07 02:07:19 <Kiba> I don't have a 4 number password
315 2010-12-07 02:07:23 <Zarutian> Kiba: x tries and it locks out further attempts until a longer key is entered (Similar with SIM cards and their PIN/PUK mechanism)
316 2010-12-07 02:07:24 <Kiba> that's laughable weak
317 2010-12-07 02:07:43 <lolcat> Kiba: Not if you have only three tries
318 2010-12-07 02:07:56 <Diablo-D3> my user account password on my own workstation is like 24 letters
319 2010-12-07 02:07:59 <Diablo-D3> and I type this in daily
320 2010-12-07 02:08:04 <Diablo-D3> 4 numbers is uselessly weak
321 2010-12-07 02:08:09 <Kiba> somebody is bound to type 1 2 3 4
322 2010-12-07 02:08:15 <Kiba> they will try the most common combination
323 2010-12-07 02:08:34 <lolcat> But I wouldn't bother to type a 24 letter passphrase to buy a hotdog
324 2010-12-07 02:08:45 <Kiba> lolcat: then treat it like cash
325 2010-12-07 02:08:46 <Diablo-D3> no, but why do numbers?
326 2010-12-07 02:08:49 <Diablo-D3> it could be images
327 2010-12-07 02:08:52 <Kiba> if you have a 200 dollar phone, you would keep it secure
328 2010-12-07 02:08:54 <Diablo-D3> "which image listed is your key image"
329 2010-12-07 02:09:08 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: phones are stolen all the time
330 2010-12-07 02:09:11 <lolcat> Kiba: My phone is more like $800
331 2010-12-07 02:09:33 <Diablo-D3> or it could be a series of colored blocks you have to order correctly
332 2010-12-07 02:09:41 <lolcat> And it is insured, so I don't give it much thougt
333 2010-12-07 02:09:53 <nelisky> lolcat: c'mon -> ;;google calc 800 / .20
334 2010-12-07 02:10:12 <lolcat> nelisky: My phone doesnt have bitcoins in it
335 2010-12-07 02:10:17 <nelisky> that didn't have the impact I expected :O
336 2010-12-07 02:10:21 <lolcat> But the phone itself is worth that
337 2010-12-07 02:10:35 <Kiba> bitcoins are just cash, and should be treated as such
338 2010-12-07 02:10:45 <nelisky> yes, express values in bitcoins, and be proud of it!
339 2010-12-07 02:10:50 <Kiba> unless you want a centralized bank
340 2010-12-07 02:10:53 <lolcat> Diablo-D3: That would be a good solution, yes.
341 2010-12-07 02:10:57 <nelisky> then burn your bra
342 2010-12-07 02:11:27 <Kiba> I don't have a good feeling on what bitcoins could buy me
343 2010-12-07 02:11:46 <Kiba> I can guesstimate with dollars
344 2010-12-07 02:12:04 <doublec> ;;google calc 1000 / .20
345 2010-12-07 02:12:05 <gribble> 1,000 / .20 = 5,000
346 2010-12-07 02:12:13 <doublec> 5,000 bitcoins for a smartphone
347 2010-12-07 02:12:17 <Kiba> Russian rubes enjoying a rally
348 2010-12-07 02:12:36 <Kiba> well btc/rubes
349 2010-12-07 02:16:49 <Kiba> apperantly, I now have 27 followers
350 2010-12-07 02:16:57 <Diablo-D3> on what?
351 2010-12-07 02:17:38 <Kiba> twitter
352 2010-12-07 02:17:48 <Kiba> and I didn't say what my cat eat, what I eat, or whatever boring crap
353 2010-12-07 02:22:17 <lolcat> Kiba: You should write a: "How to get popular" -ebook
354 2010-12-07 02:23:36 <Kiba> lolcat: 1. take initiative.
355 2010-12-07 02:23:42 <nelisky> I once created a test twitter account, ya know, to understand all the fuss
356 2010-12-07 02:23:45 <Kiba> 2. have balls
357 2010-12-07 02:23:52 <nelisky> I wrote one single tweet: "test"
358 2010-12-07 02:24:02 <nelisky> I have more followers than you, Kiba
359 2010-12-07 02:24:03 <nelisky> :p
360 2010-12-07 02:24:10 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: 27 on twitter? 28 of them are bots.
361 2010-12-07 02:24:20 <Diablo-D3> and no, thats not a typo
362 2010-12-07 02:24:38 <Kiba> 3. There's no...#3.
363 2010-12-07 02:24:44 <ArtForz> 3. ??? 4. Profit!
364 2010-12-07 02:25:08 <Kiba> I don't even contribute most of the bounty
365 2010-12-07 02:25:14 <Kiba> I just start the thread
366 2010-12-07 02:25:20 <Kiba> and then pledge some.
367 2010-12-07 02:29:33 <Zarutian> Kiba: hmm? which thread?
368 2010-12-07 02:30:00 <Kiba> Zarutian: you don't read the forum?
369 2010-12-07 02:30:13 <Kiba> let see, I started the advertising campaign on projectwonderful
370 2010-12-07 02:30:19 <Kiba> lead a bit effort to raise money for....
371 2010-12-07 02:30:38 <Diablo-D3> heh
372 2010-12-07 02:30:40 <Kiba> DomainChain AKA BitDNS since .p2p are a bunch of faggots
373 2010-12-07 02:30:59 <Kiba> there's even a fucking power struggle
374 2010-12-07 02:31:19 <Kiba> I started pledge on android
375 2010-12-07 02:31:21 <Kiba> I started...
376 2010-12-07 02:31:23 <Kiba> a lot of shit.
377 2010-12-07 02:33:19 <Zarutian> Kiba: not that frequently, no
378 2010-12-07 02:33:47 <Kiba> Zarutian: pretty frequently compared to others
379 2010-12-07 02:34:28 <Zarutian> Kiba: any coding projects that arent too demanding?
380 2010-12-07 02:34:30 <Kiba> But in the end, I just start the march and the people do it.
381 2010-12-07 02:34:36 <doublec> lolcat, it builds on arm but segfaults on the emulator
382 2010-12-07 02:34:40 <doublec> I'll try it on the actual device
383 2010-12-07 02:34:40 <Kiba> Zarutian: they're not demanding on my brain
384 2010-12-07 02:34:53 <Kiba> I am just lazy to do them.
385 2010-12-07 02:35:34 <Zarutian> Kiba: suits me, if I can earn btc relatively easily that way
386 2010-12-07 02:35:58 <Kiba> Zarutian: nobody brothers to do them anyway
387 2010-12-07 02:36:23 <Kiba> actually, I don't have time to do 100 projects
388 2010-12-07 02:36:26 <Zarutian> brothers? autoincorrect?
389 2010-12-07 02:36:37 <Kiba> so I am going to do a few...
390 2010-12-07 02:37:00 <Kiba> bothers
391 2010-12-07 02:40:29 <MT`AwAy> mh
392 2010-12-07 02:40:46 <Zarutian> well I am off to bed, cya folks
393 2010-12-07 02:43:16 <Kiba> so arronsw tweeted bitcoin
394 2010-12-07 02:43:21 <Kiba> it's reaching famous personalities!
395 2010-12-07 02:48:13 <Orbixx> I am throroughly confused.
396 2010-12-07 02:48:28 <Orbixx> Is there a more detailed explanation of Bitcoin and how it related to real-world currency?
397 2010-12-07 02:49:02 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: the only relation to real world currency is the value other people are willing to give to bitcoins
398 2010-12-07 02:49:15 <Orbixx> I see, so it's what people make it.
399 2010-12-07 02:49:21 <Diablo-D3> welcome to currency.
400 2010-12-07 02:49:27 <Orbixx> :)
401 2010-12-07 02:49:55 <Kiba> It's a real world currency
402 2010-12-07 02:49:57 <Kiba> bitcoin ain't fake
403 2010-12-07 02:49:59 <Kiba> it's real
404 2010-12-07 02:49:59 <Orbixx> What's it commonly used for?
405 2010-12-07 02:50:07 <Kiba> Orbixx: same thing that any currency is used for.
406 2010-12-07 02:50:37 <Orbixx> Well yes, I understand you all want to portray it as independently as possible, which I'm sure it has the potential to be, but please level with me realistically.
407 2010-12-07 02:50:47 <Orbixx> At the present moment in time, how is it commonly used?
408 2010-12-07 02:51:14 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: for example you can use it on sites listed on http://www.bitcoin.org/trade
409 2010-12-07 02:51:29 <Orbixx> How are transactions authenticated?
410 2010-12-07 02:51:56 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: usually when you want to receive a transaction, you give this someone an unique bitcoin address
411 2010-12-07 02:52:13 <MT`AwAy> so when bitcoins arrives there, you know it's from this individual/for this service
412 2010-12-07 02:52:41 <Orbixx> I'm also seeing signs of some form of distributed computing.
413 2010-12-07 02:52:44 <MT`AwAy> also, bitcoin payments can't be cancelled, so as soon as you have your bitcoins and enough confirmations to make sure it's not a fake payment (double payment/etc), you can deliver
414 2010-12-07 02:53:40 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: to generate "blocks" (read the wiki for more infos on what a block is) people need to generate a sha256 hash following a specific rule, which is made less or more hard depending on the total amount of cpu power on the network
415 2010-12-07 02:54:05 <MT`AwAy> when someone generates a block, they get bitcoins to "thank" them
416 2010-12-07 02:54:29 <MT`AwAy> thanks to blocks, your transactions are getting "confirmed"
417 2010-12-07 02:54:50 <Kiba> wee!
418 2010-12-07 02:54:51 <Orbixx> So blocks are essentially cryptographically signed banking information?
419 2010-12-07 02:54:55 <Kiba> now mybitcoin have nice graphics!
420 2010-12-07 02:55:59 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: to know what can be found in blocks, you can look at http://blockexplorer.com/
421 2010-12-07 02:56:36 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: basically each and every bitcoin node knows about each and every transaction. What makes those transactions anonymous is the fact you can't know who is owning a given bitcoin address
422 2010-12-07 02:57:01 <Orbixx> What causes the generation of a block to take approximately 10 minutes on a CPU?
423 2010-12-07 02:57:13 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it's automatically tweaked based on past results
424 2010-12-07 02:57:13 <Orbixx> Ridiculously high-grade cryptography?
425 2010-12-07 02:57:17 <MT`AwAy> every 2 weeks
426 2010-12-07 02:57:51 <MT`AwAy> there is a number known as "difficulty" that is re-computed between all the bitcoin nodes based on how fast were the last 2 weeks worth of blocks generated
427 2010-12-07 02:58:00 <MT`AwAy> +were
428 2010-12-07 02:58:16 <Orbixx> What is the purpose of this?
429 2010-12-07 02:59:00 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: make sure blocks are not generated too fast
430 2010-12-07 02:59:20 <Orbixx> (I appreciate you answering all these questions, by the way)
431 2010-12-07 02:59:27 <Orbixx> What is bad about blocks being generated too fast?
432 2010-12-07 02:59:35 <lolcat> Orbixx: Inflation
433 2010-12-07 02:59:46 <Orbixx> But I thought
434 2010-12-07 02:59:47 <Orbixx> right
435 2010-12-07 02:59:50 <MT`AwAy> in fact the operation done by bitcoin clients ils more close to a bruteforce attack, because we know it takes on average X seconds to generate a hash following a given rule with a given supply of cpu power, we can tweak the difficulty accordingly
436 2010-12-07 02:59:53 <Orbixx> you get rewarded for generating blocks
437 2010-12-07 02:59:55 <Orbixx> d'uh
438 2010-12-07 03:00:32 <Orbixx> So consuming CPU time to enhance the cryptographical strength of the transactions is merely a side-effect of currency control?
439 2010-12-07 03:00:45 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it's a planned side effect
440 2010-12-07 03:00:48 <Orbixx> Yes.
441 2010-12-07 03:00:55 <Orbixx> Now things are starting to make sense./
442 2010-12-07 03:01:05 <Orbixx> I'm...
443 2010-12-07 03:01:12 <Orbixx> Intrigued.
444 2010-12-07 03:01:23 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: the idea was to find a way to distribute bitcoins across the nodes at first without having someone cheating by running 1000 nodes on the same computer
445 2010-12-07 03:02:13 <MT`AwAy> problem is people went GPU, and some people invested in supercomputer-grade hardware to generate bitcoins (good thing is, they invested a lot of money because of that, which means it may be only fair they get bitcoins in return, at least for a while)
446 2010-12-07 03:03:01 <Orbixx> So do those with faster computational power available acquire coins quicker? Wait, no, because they're round-robin'd, but to round-robin them means that blocks could still be created quickly if not forced to spend additional CPU time computing them.
447 2010-12-07 03:03:07 <Orbixx> I love answering my own questions.
448 2010-12-07 03:03:19 <MT`AwAy> and no it's not round robin
449 2010-12-07 03:03:27 <Orbixx> Well, I was using RR as an example.
450 2010-12-07 03:03:33 <Orbixx> Let's just say balanced.
451 2010-12-07 03:03:34 <MT`AwAy> people with ability to generate more hashes/seconds will get more bitcoins
452 2010-12-07 03:03:38 <Orbixx> Balanced is correct?
453 2010-12-07 03:03:48 <Orbixx> I see...
454 2010-12-07 03:03:50 <MT`AwAy> the more cpu you have, the more bitcoins you get
455 2010-12-07 03:04:02 <[Noodles]> will 'likely' get more coins, it's still a lottery
456 2010-12-07 03:04:16 <MT`AwAy> because if it was just equally shared between nodes, anyone could run lots of bitcoin instances on a single computer
457 2010-12-07 03:04:21 <Orbixx> I suppose computational power to bitcoins has an affect on real-world currency spendature.
458 2010-12-07 03:04:30 <Orbixx> Heh.
459 2010-12-07 03:04:33 <Orbixx> I have a lot to digest.
460 2010-12-07 03:04:35 <MT`AwAy> still, even with a really low cpu, you have chances to generate bitcoins.... one day
461 2010-12-07 03:04:40 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,estimate 1000
462 2010-12-07 03:04:41 <gribble> 11774.79002286
463 2010-12-07 03:04:47 <MT`AwAy> mh, not the right command
464 2010-12-07 03:05:07 <lolcat> ;;bc,cacl 1000
465 2010-12-07 03:05:07 <Orbixx> Does the Linux version support GPUs?
466 2010-12-07 03:05:08 <gribble> Error: "bc,cacl" is not a valid command.
467 2010-12-07 03:05:13 <lolcat> ;;bc,calc 1000
468 2010-12-07 03:05:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 39 minutes, and 44 seconds
469 2010-12-07 03:05:27 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: the official client has a "getwork" api function that let you use external miners contributed by the community
470 2010-12-07 03:05:34 <MT`AwAy> those "miners" are mainly aimed at gpu
471 2010-12-07 03:05:35 <MT`AwAy> see topic
472 2010-12-07 03:05:44 <Orbixx> Thanks.
473 2010-12-07 03:06:07 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: so if your cpu makes 1000 hash/sec, it'll likely take one year and five weeks to be sure to generate a block (you may also generate one right away, it's fully random)
474 2010-12-07 03:06:36 <MT`AwAy> for info my core2 duo (920) generates on average 4000~5000 khash/sec
475 2010-12-07 03:06:44 <MT`AwAy> (I meant 1000 khash/Sec)
476 2010-12-07 03:07:30 <lolcat> I thougth for a moment your core2 duo was insanly fast
477 2010-12-07 03:07:38 <MT`AwAy> :D
478 2010-12-07 03:07:46 <MT`AwAy> I wish it was
479 2010-12-07 03:08:02 <MT`AwAy> it's fast, it's just that people who run dozen of gpu like art /are/ insanely fast
480 2010-12-07 03:09:14 <Orbixx> I'm failing to find GPU clients :<
481 2010-12-07 03:09:24 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: even in the topic?
482 2010-12-07 03:09:33 <Orbixx> Forums really aren't suited to tracking software development.
483 2010-12-07 03:09:43 <MT`AwAy> yep
484 2010-12-07 03:10:03 <Diablo-D3> wtf
485 2010-12-07 03:10:16 <Diablo-D3> my c2d e8500 @ 3.16ghz only does 3 mhash
486 2010-12-07 03:10:36 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: my core2 duo pwnz you!
487 2010-12-07 03:10:51 <MT`AwAy> XD
488 2010-12-07 03:10:53 <Diablo-D3> I doubt it
489 2010-12-07 03:11:01 <lolcat> MT`AwAy: 3 mhas > 1000 khash
490 2010-12-07 03:11:15 <MT`AwAy> lolcat: my cpu is 4000~5000 khash/sec
491 2010-12-07 03:11:26 <Diablo-D3> are you sure its a duo and not a quad?
492 2010-12-07 03:11:31 <MT`AwAy> it's a duo
493 2010-12-07 03:11:39 <Diablo-D3> that sounds wrong then
494 2010-12-07 03:11:40 <MT`AwAy> aaaaaaaa
495 2010-12-07 03:11:41 <MT`AwAy> no
496 2010-12-07 03:11:42 <MT`AwAy> sorry
497 2010-12-07 03:11:45 <MT`AwAy> it's a i7
498 2010-12-07 03:11:57 <Diablo-D3> then thats a little more likely
499 2010-12-07 03:12:08 <Orbixx> Is there a place that provides a general estimate as to the worth of 1 bit-coin to widely-accepted currency?
500 2010-12-07 03:12:11 <Diablo-D3> its a quad then
501 2010-12-07 03:12:20 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: http://bitcoinwatch.com/
502 2010-12-07 03:12:23 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: that in itself is not a good question
503 2010-12-07 03:12:29 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: but see MT`AwAy's url
504 2010-12-07 03:12:44 <Diablo-D3> a lot of people are doing business in bitcoin at below market prices
505 2010-12-07 03:12:48 <Diablo-D3> just because they like bitcoin
506 2010-12-07 03:13:27 <Orbixx> By generating blocks, am I a 'node'?
507 2010-12-07 03:13:36 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: just by running a bitcoin client, you are a "node"
508 2010-12-07 03:13:37 <Diablo-D3> by existing, you are a node
509 2010-12-07 03:13:42 <Orbixx> I see.
510 2010-12-07 03:14:03 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: my radeon 4850 does 75 mhash, so *cough*
511 2010-12-07 03:14:17 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: it was a joke with your 3mhash/sec
512 2010-12-07 03:14:36 <Orbixx> How do I track how fast I'm hashing with the GUI?
513 2010-12-07 03:14:41 <MT`AwAy> ah
514 2010-12-07 03:14:44 <MT`AwAy> ok, I'm tired
515 2010-12-07 03:14:46 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: its on the bottom
516 2010-12-07 03:14:59 <Orbixx> All I see is 'Generating'.
517 2010-12-07 03:15:11 <Orbixx> And an ever-increasing block amount.
518 2010-12-07 03:15:16 <Diablo-D3> ahh thats why
519 2010-12-07 03:15:22 <Diablo-D3> you cant generate while you're still downloading blocks
520 2010-12-07 03:15:26 <Orbixx> Ah I see.
521 2010-12-07 03:15:32 <Diablo-D3> its waiting for you to finish downloading before it starts
522 2010-12-07 03:15:44 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: btw
523 2010-12-07 03:15:47 <Orbixx> Presumably the amount of blocks is the same for everybody?
524 2010-12-07 03:15:51 <Diablo-D3> using a cpu to do this is an absolute waste
525 2010-12-07 03:15:52 <Diablo-D3> yes
526 2010-12-07 03:15:52 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: it is
527 2010-12-07 03:16:02 <Diablo-D3> "blocks" : 96110,
528 2010-12-07 03:16:12 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: if you're looking for gpu miner, ask Diablo-D3
529 2010-12-07 03:16:23 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: HI DIABLO
530 2010-12-07 03:16:30 <Orbixx> Want to be friends? ;p
531 2010-12-07 03:16:33 <Diablo-D3> lol
532 2010-12-07 03:16:39 <Diablo-D3> you have two choices, mine or m0's
533 2010-12-07 03:16:52 <Diablo-D3> mine is faster, but doesn't work on nvidia (due to driver bugs)
534 2010-12-07 03:16:58 <Orbixx> I'm going to hazard a guess that it costs Bitcoins to purchase a GPU miner?
535 2010-12-07 03:17:04 <Diablo-D3> no
536 2010-12-07 03:17:04 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: no it doesn't
537 2010-12-07 03:17:07 <Orbixx> Oh, okay.
538 2010-12-07 03:17:10 <MT`AwAy> miners are opensource :)
539 2010-12-07 03:17:12 <Diablo-D3> mines open source, so is m0's
540 2010-12-07 03:17:16 <Orbixx> Yeah.
541 2010-12-07 03:17:22 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.msg27048#msg27048
542 2010-12-07 03:17:27 <Diablo-D3> official diablominer thread
543 2010-12-07 03:17:30 <Orbixx> Sporting an 8800GTX here.
544 2010-12-07 03:17:39 <Diablo-D3> er
545 2010-12-07 03:17:39 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: so m0's miner it will be
546 2010-12-07 03:17:44 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.0;all
547 2010-12-07 03:17:48 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: yeah, use m0's
548 2010-12-07 03:17:57 <Orbixx> ooo
549 2010-12-07 03:17:59 <Orbixx> git!
550 2010-12-07 03:18:01 <Orbixx> <3
551 2010-12-07 03:18:03 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: thats also minorly a waste
552 2010-12-07 03:18:09 <Diablo-D3> gefoces are really slow at mining
553 2010-12-07 03:18:14 <Diablo-D3> because nvidia isnt good at anything
554 2010-12-07 03:18:18 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: define "slow" :D
555 2010-12-07 03:18:23 <Diablo-D3> well
556 2010-12-07 03:18:27 <Diablo-D3> its much faster than cpu
557 2010-12-07 03:18:32 <Diablo-D3> its just much slower than a radeon 5xxx
558 2010-12-07 03:18:32 <MT`AwAy> ok
559 2010-12-07 03:18:56 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: nvidia loves to screw users in new and inventive ways
560 2010-12-07 03:19:11 <ArtForz> my spreadsheet says 26Mh/s
561 2010-12-07 03:19:19 <Diablo-D3> wow thats slow
562 2010-12-07 03:19:23 <Diablo-D3> thats even worse than my 4850
563 2010-12-07 03:19:28 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1334.0 I guess
564 2010-12-07 03:19:39 <Diablo-D3> yeah thats the m0 thread
565 2010-12-07 03:19:40 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: I am not easily convinced without facts, but given you've coded something that interfaces with a GPU and I haven't, I'll not try to mock you since it's my belief nVidia is superior.
566 2010-12-07 03:19:57 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: nvidia is probably going to go bankrupt in the next 2-3 years
567 2010-12-07 03:20:19 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: their products perform slower for their intended tasks (gaming) per dollar, and they perform slower per watt
568 2010-12-07 03:20:26 <Diablo-D3> adn the fastest card in existence isnt an nvidia card.
569 2010-12-07 03:20:44 <Orbixx> According to who/what?
570 2010-12-07 03:20:50 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: according to benchs
571 2010-12-07 03:20:54 <MT`AwAy> benchs don't lie
572 2010-12-07 03:20:59 <Diablo-D3> according to any reasonable benchmark that isnt engineered to make nvidia look good
573 2010-12-07 03:21:04 <Orbixx> Interesting.
574 2010-12-07 03:21:11 <Diablo-D3> and yes, they do exist
575 2010-12-07 03:21:13 <Orbixx> Since when was this?
576 2010-12-07 03:21:21 <Diablo-D3> oh, for about the past 2 years
577 2010-12-07 03:21:30 <Orbixx> I was under the impression nvidia were rocking the market around the point of the 8800 series.
578 2010-12-07 03:21:42 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: thats the last time they rocked anything
579 2010-12-07 03:21:46 <Orbixx> Ah.
580 2010-12-07 03:21:53 <Orbixx> I haven't really looked at things since then.
581 2010-12-07 03:21:57 <Diablo-D3> they have not innovated a new design since 8xxx
582 2010-12-07 03:22:01 <ArtForz> nvidia sucks for shader-bound GPGPU ever since 4xxx came out
583 2010-12-07 03:22:14 <Diablo-D3> 8xxx the whole way through the new gtx 5xx are all the same chip
584 2010-12-07 03:22:20 <Diablo-D3> they just keep die shrinking it and adding pipes
585 2010-12-07 03:22:25 <Diablo-D3> they dont actually IMPROVE it
586 2010-12-07 03:22:36 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: yeah, which no longer applies
587 2010-12-07 03:22:41 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: Just optimised?
588 2010-12-07 03:22:45 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: barely.
589 2010-12-07 03:23:01 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Fedora seem to have done away with the fglrx driver, must be a good sign.
590 2010-12-07 03:23:08 <Diablo-D3> no, fedora didnt
591 2010-12-07 03:23:20 <Diablo-D3> fedora just defaults to the gallium driver in... the next edition of fedora that isnt out yet iirc
592 2010-12-07 03:23:27 <Diablo-D3> catalyst can still be installed
593 2010-12-07 03:23:27 <nanotube> hey, can anyone test if they can connect to the bitcoin node at bitcoin-otc.com?
594 2010-12-07 03:23:39 <doublec> ;bc,calc 120000
595 2010-12-07 03:23:42 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 120000
596 2010-12-07 03:23:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes, and 49 seconds
597 2010-12-07 03:24:04 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: now, the interesting part here is, AMD is spending millions to improve open source linux drivers
598 2010-12-07 03:24:12 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: they plan on eventually killing off catalyst
599 2010-12-07 03:24:13 <Orbixx> Oh *really*?
600 2010-12-07 03:24:25 <Orbixx> That *is* interesting.
601 2010-12-07 03:24:28 <Diablo-D3> well, on linux anyways
602 2010-12-07 03:24:51 <Diablo-D3> those programming reference manuals they released cost lawyer time
603 2010-12-07 03:24:52 <Orbixx> The more games that come to Linux, the better imo.
604 2010-12-07 03:24:54 <Diablo-D3> which is very expensive
605 2010-12-07 03:25:03 <Diablo-D3> and they're also spending money on gallium
606 2010-12-07 03:25:15 <Diablo-D3> nvidia has basically rejected the new gallium framework
607 2010-12-07 03:25:26 <Diablo-D3> which is going to be hilarious when a future X server version doesnt work with their driver
608 2010-12-07 03:25:53 <Diablo-D3> <nvidia> we wont support gallium or wayland EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR
609 2010-12-07 03:25:58 <Diablo-D3> <everyone else> goodbye.
610 2010-12-07 03:26:49 <Diablo-D3> and catalyst works great
611 2010-12-07 03:27:02 <Diablo-D3> I played supreme commander 2 from start to finish the other day
612 2010-12-07 03:27:06 <Diablo-D3> worked great in wine
613 2010-12-07 03:27:37 <MT`AwAy> the only game I sometimes play is klondike, with real cards
614 2010-12-07 03:27:41 <Diablo-D3> anyhow
615 2010-12-07 03:27:42 <Kiba> Director Of Sunlight Lab converses with Arronsw
616 2010-12-07 03:27:43 <Orbixx> Nice ^^
617 2010-12-07 03:27:47 <Kiba> two famous dudes!
618 2010-12-07 03:27:47 <Orbixx> I simply cannot wait for Steam to adopt Linux.
619 2010-12-07 03:27:49 <Orbixx> It will mark the changeover of game platform support.
620 2010-12-07 03:28:01 <Diablo-D3> Steam isnt going to adopt Linux
621 2010-12-07 03:28:14 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: I actually know the guy that ported steam and source to linux
622 2010-12-07 03:28:21 <Diablo-D3> valve paid him a fair bit to do it
623 2010-12-07 03:28:24 <Kiba> on bitcoin!
624 2010-12-07 03:28:43 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: Oh?
625 2010-12-07 03:29:07 <Diablo-D3> the new UI rendering code is partly based on the new windows-less code he wrote, except they threw a new UI on top of it
626 2010-12-07 03:29:14 <Diablo-D3> and all the OSX code is essentially his
627 2010-12-07 03:29:40 <Orbixx> But what makes you so sure it won't be coming to Linux?
628 2010-12-07 03:29:48 <Diablo-D3> they already said it isnt
629 2010-12-07 03:30:01 <Orbixx> Diablo-D3: Companies change their minds just like people do.
630 2010-12-07 03:30:02 <Diablo-D3> its probably because microsoft is fucking them over on their gold dev status
631 2010-12-07 03:30:13 <Orbixx> (also what is the syntax for the bitcoin.conf?)
632 2010-12-07 03:30:20 <Diablo-D3> microsoft can just stop valve from ever releasing another xbox game again, or updating current ones
633 2010-12-07 03:30:30 <Diablo-D3> and valve also has special status that their windows bugs are actually fixed quickly
634 2010-12-07 03:30:32 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: bitcoin.conf: var=value
635 2010-12-07 03:30:41 <Diablo-D3> so, microsoft is probably threatening them with that
636 2010-12-07 03:30:45 <Diablo-D3> so fuck microsoft
637 2010-12-07 03:30:48 <Orbixx> Indeed.
638 2010-12-07 03:30:56 <Diablo-D3> that said, source is a dx9 engine
639 2010-12-07 03:31:08 <Diablo-D3> even the wonderful portal 2
640 2010-12-07 03:31:14 <Diablo-D3> nothing new in the rendering pipeline here
641 2010-12-07 03:31:21 <Diablo-D3> should work perfect in wine
642 2010-12-07 03:31:25 <Orbixx> I'm sure I've seen DX10 support in recent source builds.
643 2010-12-07 03:31:31 <MT`AwAy> Diablo-D3: it does
644 2010-12-07 03:31:41 <Diablo-D3> MT`AwAy: I said 2, not 1
645 2010-12-07 03:31:43 <Diablo-D3> I know 1 does
646 2010-12-07 03:32:09 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: well, they do have dx98 supprt (dx9 + dx10 shaders)
647 2010-12-07 03:32:28 <Diablo-D3> but who knows
648 2010-12-07 03:32:38 <Diablo-D3> if portal 2 doesnt work in wine, Im going to bitch loudly
649 2010-12-07 03:32:50 <Orbixx> Hmm.
650 2010-12-07 03:32:53 <Diablo-D3> that said, I think Im going to go to bed
651 2010-12-07 03:32:55 <Orbixx> What OpenCL library should I be looking for to get this GUI client working?
652 2010-12-07 03:32:57 <Diablo-D3> Ive been up far too long
653 2010-12-07 03:33:11 <Diablo-D3> Orbixx: the miners arent gui clients... or clients of any kind
654 2010-12-07 03:33:14 <Orbixx> er
655 2010-12-07 03:33:19 <Orbixx> Sorry, on autopilot.
656 2010-12-07 03:33:25 <Diablo-D3> they connect to a running bitcoind or bitcoin --server
657 2010-12-07 03:33:27 <Orbixx> I meant miner.
658 2010-12-07 03:33:34 <lispy> I'm trying to understand why I should use bitcoin. I found this on the wiki: http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#Why_should_I_use_Bitcoin That gave me some triva but no explanations about "why". For example, none of those help me understand why bitcoins are good or how they would improve the quality of my life.
659 2010-12-07 03:33:35 <Diablo-D3> nvidia drivers already come with the right shit
660 2010-12-07 03:34:12 <Diablo-D3> so if you're on debian or ubuntu, its just the matter of installing the right packages built from the drivers
661 2010-12-07 03:34:47 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, need sleep
662 2010-12-07 03:34:48 <Diablo-D3> night all
663 2010-12-07 03:36:06 <Kiba> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2793#comments
664 2010-12-07 03:36:14 <Kiba> scroll all the way down
665 2010-12-07 03:36:17 <Kiba> there's a warning about RMS
666 2010-12-07 03:36:21 <nanotube> lispy: heh well, whether they would or not improve the quality of your life, is an open question... :)
667 2010-12-07 03:37:46 <MT`AwAy> "Both actually burned everything that had been on the bed, and threw out the mattress." :D
668 2010-12-07 03:38:03 <[Noodles]> lispy: it's freedom that improves the quality of your life. your account cant get suddenly frozen by someone, or transfers permitted, or charged back for no reason. noone tells you what you can and can not do with your 'cash', it's up to you
669 2010-12-07 03:39:07 <Kiba> [Noodles]: you also have to be responsible for yourself
670 2010-12-07 03:39:19 <Kiba> that mean not getting suckered into scams
671 2010-12-07 03:39:43 <[Noodles]> sure, just like with non-virtual cash
672 2010-12-07 03:39:54 <[Noodles]> if you give it someone, it's gone
673 2010-12-07 03:40:01 <[Noodles]> +to
674 2010-12-07 03:40:10 <nanotube> it's gone to where? :P
675 2010-12-07 03:40:13 <nanotube> haha
676 2010-12-07 03:40:22 <[Noodles]> you'll never know ^.^
677 2010-12-07 03:40:38 <MT`AwAy> want an example of something stupid?
678 2010-12-07 03:41:04 <nanotube> mmm... i've seen plenty of those before... :)
679 2010-12-07 03:41:13 <MT`AwAy> a regular customer renewed his services with me through paypal, everything fine. 2 weeks later paypal freezes the transaction, I provide information (returning customer, invoice, etc). 2 months later, paypal says "we refunded the customer"
680 2010-12-07 03:41:13 <[Noodles]> lol
681 2010-12-07 03:41:40 <nanotube> haha that's paypal all right
682 2010-12-07 03:41:45 <Kiba> somehow there's a large scale paypal scam
683 2010-12-07 03:41:54 <Kiba> otherwise, paypal wouldn't be this agressive in their algorithm
684 2010-12-07 03:41:56 <Lysacor> PP is a big scam... plain and simple
685 2010-12-07 03:42:03 <Kiba> and evil
686 2010-12-07 03:42:05 <MT`AwAy> same customer, paying each month through paypal for over one year, and suddently, pop
687 2010-12-07 03:42:16 <Kiba> Peter Thiel help created it
688 2010-12-07 03:42:18 <Kiba> but he left
689 2010-12-07 03:42:38 <Kiba> Killing Paypal.
690 2010-12-07 03:42:49 <Kiba> is like trying to Kill TicketMaster
691 2010-12-07 03:42:50 <nanotube> so... anyone want to try to connect to the bitcoin-otc.com node?
692 2010-12-07 03:42:53 <nanotube> and tell me if it works?
693 2010-12-07 03:42:56 <Kiba> both widely depised corporations
694 2010-12-07 03:42:59 <MT`AwAy> anyway I hope moneybookers will approve my merchant account soon
695 2010-12-07 03:43:35 <Lysacor> nanotube: bitcoin-otc.com node?
696 2010-12-07 03:43:35 <MT`AwAy> (main point is "less fees", second main point is "easy for customer to pay with credit card")
697 2010-12-07 03:43:46 <nanotube> Lysacor: i am running a bitcoind on the server.
698 2010-12-07 03:43:59 <Kiba> what the node for?
699 2010-12-07 03:43:59 <Lysacor> aaah
700 2010-12-07 03:44:02 <nanotube> Lysacor: want to make sure that people can connect to it.
701 2010-12-07 03:44:21 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: just look at your connection count, it should be a good indicator
702 2010-12-07 03:44:28 <nanotube> Kiba: just to support the network. http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes
703 2010-12-07 03:44:50 <MT`AwAy> mh
704 2010-12-07 03:44:53 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: yea, i already know it works and is accepting incoming connections :) just want that extra bit of confirmation, before i add it to that wiki page
705 2010-12-07 03:45:11 <MT`AwAy> maybe I should add some there
706 2010-12-07 03:45:16 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: can't hurt. :)
707 2010-12-07 03:46:01 <MT`AwAy> gah
708 2010-12-07 03:46:03 <MT`AwAy> need to reg
709 2010-12-07 03:46:04 <Lysacor> ah a Tor node, gotcha, sorry :P a bit dense... my wife is dying to get the WoW expansion tonight and I have heard nothing but that since I got home
710 2010-12-07 03:46:15 <Orbixx> Surely the amount of blocks is ever-increasing?
711 2010-12-07 03:46:19 <nanotube> Lysacor: no, it's not a torified node. just a regular bitcoin node on a vps.
712 2010-12-07 03:46:24 <Lysacor> aaah ok
713 2010-12-07 03:46:24 <nanotube> Orbixx: yes it is
714 2010-12-07 03:46:33 <nanotube> goes up by 1 about once every 10 minutes.
715 2010-12-07 03:46:35 <Orbixx> What happens when it reaches a point where it's a significant inconvenience to start afresh?
716 2010-12-07 03:46:45 <nanotube> Orbixx: we haven't reached that point yet. :)
717 2010-12-07 03:46:45 <[Noodles]> nanotube: works just fine for me
718 2010-12-07 03:46:47 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: you'll be inconveniented
719 2010-12-07 03:47:11 <Orbixx> nanotube: I assume design will be changed to accommodate?
720 2010-12-07 03:47:12 <nanotube> Orbixx: but... there is some talk about trimming the blockchain by forgetting spent transactions... also to separate 'super nodes' from 'leaf nodes'
721 2010-12-07 03:47:22 <nanotube> [Noodles]: thanks :)
722 2010-12-07 03:47:33 <Orbixx> mhmm
723 2010-12-07 03:47:40 <[Noodles]> welcome anytime ^.^
724 2010-12-07 03:47:48 <Orbixx> So presumably transaction data is stored on nodes.
725 2010-12-07 03:47:56 <Orbixx> What happens when a node goes offline no to return?
726 2010-12-07 03:48:07 <Orbixx> Is data distributed like a parity, or is it lost?
727 2010-12-07 03:48:11 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: you're editing the nodes page eh ? :)
728 2010-12-07 03:48:32 <nanotube> transactions that have already made it into the block chain are in the block chain
729 2010-12-07 03:48:35 <nanotube> Orbixx: --^
730 2010-12-07 03:48:39 <Orbixx> Where is the block chain stored?
731 2010-12-07 03:48:40 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: just finished
732 2010-12-07 03:48:51 <nanotube> Orbixx: ones that haven't yet are stored in nodes' caches.
733 2010-12-07 03:48:53 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: on all nodes
734 2010-12-07 03:49:04 <MT`AwAy> the block chain is the thing you were downloading
735 2010-12-07 03:49:05 <Orbixx> Ah, I see.
736 2010-12-07 03:49:34 <MT`AwAy> a node receive transactions from other nodes, and when it generates successfully a hash, it includes all the received transaction in the block and transmits it
737 2010-12-07 03:50:19 <MT`AwAy> (in fact the transactions are inserted in the block before the hash is generated, the hash is kinda like a seal on the block, changing anything in the block would change its hash)
738 2010-12-07 03:50:41 <Kiba> wee!
739 2010-12-07 03:50:45 <Kiba> I like it when people download my art
740 2010-12-07 03:51:39 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: added mine too. :)
741 2010-12-07 03:54:21 <MT`AwAy> I only added 4 nodes, one node per isp :)
742 2010-12-07 03:54:44 <MT`AwAy> (and here in Japan we're already December 7th)
743 2010-12-07 03:55:56 <MT`AwAy> I could make a bitcoin dns that returns the closest nodes based on country info :p
744 2010-12-07 03:56:04 <Kiba> using the path tool!
745 2010-12-07 04:00:07 <Kiba> arronsw thinks d00m!
746 2010-12-07 04:00:16 <Kiba> @sbma44 @hackerkiba The best part will be the catastrophic economic collapse when someone finds a security vulnerability
747 2010-12-07 04:00:29 <MT`AwAy> :D
748 2010-12-07 04:00:53 <MT`AwAy> which is possible to rollback, unless it had been silently abused for weeks
749 2010-12-07 04:01:02 <MT`AwAy> ("ok, let's restart the world at block X")
750 2010-12-07 04:01:59 <Kiba> meh
751 2010-12-07 04:02:10 <Kiba> I somehow though Arronsw Swartz is a researcher
752 2010-12-07 04:02:13 <Kiba> s/thouh/thought
753 2010-12-07 04:02:17 <Kiba> he's just a regular programmer
754 2010-12-07 04:02:29 <MT`AwAy> Aaron, not Arron
755 2010-12-07 04:02:53 <Kiba> and his name is easy to get wrong too
756 2010-12-07 04:03:38 <Kiba> WE do need a security audit though
757 2010-12-07 04:04:09 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: find an auditor who accepts bitcoins? :D
758 2010-12-07 04:04:16 <doublec> we need a libbitcoin and a security audit on that
759 2010-12-07 04:04:31 <doublec> so that we have something that can be safely and easily embedded in other programs
760 2010-12-07 04:04:36 <MT`AwAy> doublec: we need a security audit on bitcoin client as it's the most widely used one
761 2010-12-07 04:05:08 <MT`AwAy> a lib would require a new security audit when embedded in anything else to make it "secure"
762 2010-12-07 04:05:16 <doublec> anyone got any coverity contacts?
763 2010-12-07 04:05:17 <MT`AwAy> (and an audit has some limitations too, anyway)
764 2010-12-07 04:06:04 <MT`AwAy> anyway all the auditors I know would not accept auditing bitcoin in its current state
765 2010-12-07 04:06:12 <xelister_> any news from Diablo-D3 miner
766 2010-12-07 04:06:13 <xelister_> ?
767 2010-12-07 04:06:36 <MT`AwAy> ask him?
768 2010-12-07 04:07:03 <Lysacor> this bitcoind server is neat to work with, not as pretty as the gui in windows... but I have always been partial to CLI myself :P
769 2010-12-07 04:07:44 <Lysacor> sorry, easily impressed here :P
770 2010-12-07 04:11:04 <nanotube> Lysacor: hehe yea, bitcoind is nice.
771 2010-12-07 04:12:02 <Lysacor> same underlying hashing system as the gui right?>
772 2010-12-07 04:12:31 <nanotube> Lysacor: yes, it's the same except for the interface
773 2010-12-07 04:14:49 <Kiba> hmm
774 2010-12-07 04:15:00 <Kiba> I wonder what politicans are going to think of this
775 2010-12-07 04:15:15 <Kiba> they probably ignore it
776 2010-12-07 04:15:17 <Kiba> then laugh
777 2010-12-07 04:15:19 <Kiba> then they fight
778 2010-12-07 04:15:22 <Kiba> then we WIN!
779 2010-12-07 04:27:29 <doublec> hmm, bitcoind crashes in ParseHex on the N900
780 2010-12-07 04:31:59 <doublec> ah
781 2010-12-07 04:32:00 <doublec> found it
782 2010-12-07 04:32:22 <doublec> char's are unsigned and the code is doing: if (c == -1) where c is char
783 2010-12-07 04:35:44 <MT`AwAy> doublec: N900 ?
784 2010-12-07 04:35:57 <Orbixx> Does anybody have experience compiling pyopencl?
785 2010-12-07 04:36:14 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Nokia N900, a Debian-based smartphone.
786 2010-12-07 04:36:29 <doublec> MT`AwAy, a phone running linux
787 2010-12-07 04:36:40 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: I don't think bitcoin is portable
788 2010-12-07 04:36:40 <nanotube> next: toasters.
789 2010-12-07 04:36:41 <nanotube> :)
790 2010-12-07 04:36:50 <doublec> lolcat, bitcoind running and downloading the block chain on the N900
791 2010-12-07 04:37:00 <MT`AwAy> :o
792 2010-12-07 04:37:05 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: doublec has apparently ported it. :)
793 2010-12-07 04:37:16 <Lysacor> lol well, you turn off generation, and miracles happen :P
794 2010-12-07 04:37:30 <Lysacor> or are you generating on it too?
795 2010-12-07 04:37:46 <doublec> heh, I'll try it when the blockchain is downloaded and see what khash I get
796 2010-12-07 04:37:55 <Orbixx> Having trouble getting m0's miner to work :<
797 2010-12-07 04:37:56 <doublec> really need a neon version of the sha calculation though
798 2010-12-07 04:38:15 <Lysacor> I bet 10 BTC it doesn't exceed 500 :P
799 2010-12-07 04:38:19 <doublec> I'll post a quick note in the forums
800 2010-12-07 04:38:28 <Lysacor> would be nice to be wrong! :P
801 2010-12-07 04:38:38 <Lysacor> 500khash :P
802 2010-12-07 04:38:42 <nanotube> Lysacor: haha, my atom n270 1.6ghz gets less than 500
803 2010-12-07 04:38:53 <nanotube> so unless they stuck a monster cpu into that phone... i bet the same.
804 2010-12-07 04:38:55 <[Noodles]> yeah, mine does 420 max
805 2010-12-07 04:39:08 <Orbixx> ;;bc,calc 2000
806 2010-12-07 04:39:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 28 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes, and 52 seconds
807 2010-12-07 04:39:10 <Lysacor> well at least you are generating :P there is no shame in that
808 2010-12-07 04:39:24 <nanotube> Orbixx: look into the mining ,,pool as well
809 2010-12-07 04:39:25 <gribble> No fancy GPU, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
810 2010-12-07 04:39:36 <Orbixx> nanotube: Hmm?
811 2010-12-07 04:40:00 <nanotube> Orbixx: if you're generating at 2000 khps, your best bet on actually generating some bitcoins is the pool.
812 2010-12-07 04:40:02 <Lysacor> yep, doublec has one running, that is the site
813 2010-12-07 04:40:05 <[Noodles]> join the pool, it's all nice and wet, ya know
814 2010-12-07 04:40:15 <Orbixx> nanotube: I see.
815 2010-12-07 04:40:16 <nanotube> jump in, the water's fine!
816 2010-12-07 04:40:19 <nanotube> heh
817 2010-12-07 04:40:25 <Lysacor> we are at 120khash collectively right now
818 2010-12-07 04:40:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes, and 49 seconds
819 2010-12-07 04:40:33 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 120000
820 2010-12-07 04:40:33 <[Noodles]> Mhash
821 2010-12-07 04:40:34 <Lysacor> (now that I added my GPU back in) :P
822 2010-12-07 04:40:42 <nanotube> nice
823 2010-12-07 04:40:47 <Lysacor> sorry M, right
824 2010-12-07 04:41:58 <Lysacor> once the cuda code gets all straight, man... the potential of that pool is enormous... until the next difficulty calculation :P
825 2010-12-07 04:42:51 <Lysacor> and the 4way
826 2010-12-07 04:43:22 <Orbixx> Gah.
827 2010-12-07 04:43:45 <Orbixx> Can't find the req libraries.
828 2010-12-07 04:43:46 <Lysacor> oh doublec, I meant to ask, how is the CPU usage on the server on the new code, still looking like hash verification bottlenecks?
829 2010-12-07 04:43:57 <Orbixx> And this is before I even attempt GPU calculations.
830 2010-12-07 04:44:09 <doublec> Lysacor, looks better - there's less clients though
831 2010-12-07 04:44:11 <Lysacor> the search is worth it, keep going!
832 2010-12-07 04:44:30 <Orbixx> I get the feeling all this would be far easier on Windows.
833 2010-12-07 04:44:55 <Lysacor> true, give it time, the wayward children will return :) and I think that one guy burning in 24 cores would definitely have been a nice continued addition
834 2010-12-07 04:45:12 <nanotube> Orbixx: what are you trying to do, exactly?
835 2010-12-07 04:45:29 <[Noodles]> Lysacor: whats your GPU adding? mine does 15-19M (maybe depending on how bad the SL-viewer lags, which runs besides it)
836 2010-12-07 04:45:31 <Orbixx> nanotube: Primarily start mining with my GPU.
837 2010-12-07 04:45:32 <nanotube> Orbixx: also, note that many gpu miners, if not post, run on linux... so not sure if win will be any easier.
838 2010-12-07 04:45:43 <nanotube> s/post/most/
839 2010-12-07 04:45:50 <Lysacor> Noodles: 16-17M here
840 2010-12-07 04:46:15 <[Noodles]> what card?
841 2010-12-07 04:46:22 <Lysacor> Noodles: GTX 250
842 2010-12-07 04:46:40 <[Noodles]> mine's a gtx260
843 2010-12-07 04:47:12 <[Noodles]> giving me 40M on m0's :/
844 2010-12-07 04:47:22 <Lysacor> not too far off :) brb gotta go buy the WoW expansion for my wife... it is almost midnight here... yeah 36M on m0m's here
845 2010-12-07 04:47:27 <Lysacor> actually 32M
846 2010-12-07 04:47:43 <[Noodles]> well, mine is oc'd a little ^.^
847 2010-12-07 04:48:01 <Lysacor-afk> tried that on mine... crashed a bit... could get it to 38 though stable
848 2010-12-07 04:48:06 <Orbixx> Trying to get m0m's working here.
849 2010-12-07 04:48:13 <[Noodles]> from 575 to 680
850 2010-12-07 04:48:19 <Orbixx> pyopencl is proving difficult to compile on Fedora
851 2010-12-07 04:48:21 <doublec> post about the N900 version with binary: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2125.0
852 2010-12-07 04:49:18 <doublec> should I worry that I now have random strangers connecting to my phone
853 2010-12-07 04:49:40 <doublec> since it's a node in the bitcoin network
854 2010-12-07 04:49:40 <[Noodles]> tweaking m0's i get up to 47M, desktop-usage isnt fun then though
855 2010-12-07 04:49:46 <nanotube> doublec: haha maybe... if security vulns are discovered in bitcoind...
856 2010-12-07 04:49:55 <doublec> hehe
857 2010-12-07 04:50:13 <doublec> I might use the -connect switch and connect to my server node
858 2010-12-07 04:50:13 <[Noodles]> and it's way to expensive anyways compared to my ati cards
859 2010-12-07 04:50:24 <MT`AwAy> and -noirc
860 2010-12-07 04:51:02 <doublec> right
861 2010-12-07 04:51:26 <doublec> it's going to take a while to get this block chain down...
862 2010-12-07 04:51:27 <Orbixx> Hmm.
863 2010-12-07 04:51:36 <Orbixx> My balance just changed to 50.00
864 2010-12-07 04:52:40 <Orbixx> JUST KIDDING
865 2010-12-07 04:53:01 <[Noodles]> no worries, just give 'em to me and all be good
866 2010-12-07 04:55:55 <Kiba> Julian Assange I thought was a black haired guy but he was blond
867 2010-12-07 05:07:22 <Orbixx> Kiba: He's gone grey.
868 2010-12-07 05:07:31 <Orbixx> Oh, wait, you said 'was'.
869 2010-12-07 05:07:48 <Orbixx> How would one begin accepting Bitcoins as payment?
870 2010-12-07 05:07:54 <Orbixx> Like, programmatically?
871 2010-12-07 05:08:03 <Kiba> like payment processing?
872 2010-12-07 05:08:11 <Kiba> mtgox have one of those but I did not get it working yet
873 2010-12-07 05:08:21 <Orbixx> Correct.
874 2010-12-07 05:08:59 <doublec> Orbixx, run bitcoind on the server. Use the json-rpc interface to monitor receipt of funds and to send funds.
875 2010-12-07 05:11:00 <nanotube> Orbixx: or you can use one of the merchant apis. mtgox has one, mybitcoin has one
876 2010-12-07 05:12:12 <Orbixx> I happen to run a somewhat popular web host.
877 2010-12-07 05:12:27 <Orbixx> Well, not household name popular, but it's up there in Google.
878 2010-12-07 05:12:57 <Orbixx> Wouldn't mind testing the water with accepting BTC.
879 2010-12-07 05:13:59 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: I implemented bitcoin (I provide domains/web hosting/vps) in less than 2 hours :)
880 2010-12-07 05:14:26 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Interesting, what's your site?
881 2010-12-07 05:14:36 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: https://www.kalyhost.com/?Currency=BTC
882 2010-12-07 05:15:44 <MT`AwAy> basically, for each order to be paid in bitcoins I generate a bitcoin address, and when the funds are received the order is confirmed
883 2010-12-07 05:16:29 <MT`AwAy> (I use a 3 confirmations rule, meaning orders are confirmed within ~30 minutes)
884 2010-12-07 05:18:50 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: your prices are for shared hosting?
885 2010-12-07 05:19:06 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: depends where you are looking
886 2010-12-07 05:19:16 <nanotube> on kalyhost.com. :)
887 2010-12-07 05:19:26 <nanotube> hosting.html
888 2010-12-07 05:19:28 <MT`AwAy> in "VPS" prices are for VPS, in "Hosting" prices are for web hosting
889 2010-12-07 05:19:55 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: ah, there's no 'vps' link in the top menu
890 2010-12-07 05:19:56 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2126.0
891 2010-12-07 05:19:57 <nanotube> so i missed that
892 2010-12-07 05:20:35 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: I know, the guy I hired to manage the site disappeared a few weeks ago, need to find a new contractor, but I'm having troubles finding anyone reliable on internet :p
893 2010-12-07 05:21:02 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: can't be very hard to just add a link to the menu, that points to vps.html
894 2010-12-07 05:21:15 <MT`AwAy> :)
895 2010-12-07 05:21:21 <a_meteorite> Does anyone know about being in the pool with OS X?
896 2010-12-07 05:21:21 <MT`AwAy> there's so many things to fix
897 2010-12-07 05:21:44 <a_meteorite> I'm assuming the linux one will work
898 2010-12-07 05:21:49 <a_meteorite> mostly
899 2010-12-07 05:22:02 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: heh
900 2010-12-07 05:22:10 <nanotube> a_meteorite: no idea... just try it. :)
901 2010-12-07 05:25:49 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Presumably you run bitcoin as a daemon?
902 2010-12-07 05:26:59 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: yes
903 2010-12-07 05:27:03 <xelister_> a_meteorite: better just buy coins at mtgox.com
904 2010-12-07 05:27:06 <MT`AwAy> and I use JSON-RPC :)
905 2010-12-07 05:27:20 <xelister_> btw, wtf 0.18 USD/BTC? wat?
906 2010-12-07 05:29:11 <nanotube> a_meteorite: re what xelister_ says: indeed, if you're doing it for 'pure profit', and pay for electricity, joining the pool doesn't pay.
907 2010-12-07 05:29:21 <doublec> a_meteorite, someone posted a mac os x binary for the remote miner in the forums'
908 2010-12-07 05:29:28 <nanotube> a_meteorite: but if you're doing it 'for fun, and to support the network', it's all good. :)
909 2010-12-07 05:29:39 <nanotube> (or if you get free electricity)
910 2010-12-07 05:30:00 <nanotube> doublec: could you link me to the pool thread on the forum?
911 2010-12-07 05:30:10 <Kiba> nanotube: you're lazy
912 2010-12-07 05:30:16 <nanotube> Kiba: yes i am.
913 2010-12-07 05:30:34 <nanotube> but i figured he might have it handy in the awesome bar. :)
914 2010-12-07 05:30:59 <doublec> nanotube, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.msg27651#msg27651
915 2010-12-07 05:31:23 <Kiba> what does it mean when address not found in the block being solved, doublec
916 2010-12-07 05:31:58 <nanotube> doublec: thanks :)
917 2010-12-07 05:32:06 <doublec> Kiba, it means it hasn't seen any other remote miner using the same address to receive bitcoins as the one you are using
918 2010-12-07 05:32:09 <Lysacor> xelister_: I feel your pain, it is just a matter of time
919 2010-12-07 05:32:33 <nanotube> doublec: does puddinpop monitor the thread? if i post some ideas there he'll see? (or maybe you, are you now a co-dev?)
920 2010-12-07 05:32:38 <xelister_> a_meteorite: you can dick around with this for few months
921 2010-12-07 05:32:52 <xelister_> a_meteorite: or you can just send 10 USD and get your coins in few days
922 2010-12-07 05:33:08 <xelister_> or buy 5770 or similar radeon card and have 50 coins each few weeks
923 2010-12-07 05:33:24 <[Noodles]> nanotube: here's puddinpops thread, for ideas and stuff http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
924 2010-12-07 05:33:40 <Lysacor> Kiba: Also, the more clients you register, the better :D
925 2010-12-07 05:33:45 <doublec> nanotube, yes he monitors the thread
926 2010-12-07 05:33:53 <xelister_> Lysacor: what is causing this drop?
927 2010-12-07 05:33:56 <doublec> I'm not a co-dev
928 2010-12-07 05:34:10 <xelister_> anyone else too has idea? who is causing this drop ~0.30 -> 0.18
929 2010-12-07 05:34:15 <xelister_> *what
930 2010-12-07 05:34:20 <a_meteorite> heh
931 2010-12-07 05:34:22 <[Noodles]> oh, it was that above too, i thought that was the join-the-pool-thread ^.^
932 2010-12-07 05:34:26 <[Noodles]> silly me
933 2010-12-07 05:34:32 <a_meteorite> 5770 isn't that expensive
934 2010-12-07 05:34:41 <Lysacor> Lysacor: I am no market expert, but it is just a rash of sellers, looking to get LRUSD, probably looking to cash out. Just speculation on my part
935 2010-12-07 05:34:42 <a_meteorite> dunno how much 50 btc is worth
936 2010-12-07 05:34:51 <Lysacor> xelister I mean :P
937 2010-12-07 05:34:58 <Orbixx> a_meteorite: ~$2.50
938 2010-12-07 05:35:05 <Orbixx> Slightly less at the moment apparently though.
939 2010-12-07 05:35:18 <doublec> ;;google calc 50 * 0.18
940 2010-12-07 05:35:19 <gribble> 50 * 0.18 = 9
941 2010-12-07 05:35:19 <xelister_> what?
942 2010-12-07 05:35:25 <xelister_> Orbixx: doing math much?
943 2010-12-07 05:35:39 <Orbixx> xelister_: I must've missed a digit somewhere ;p
944 2010-12-07 05:35:48 <xelister_> 50 btc is worth 8..15 USD nowdays (the exchange rate changes rapidly)
945 2010-12-07 05:35:49 <Orbixx> It's 6am here.
946 2010-12-07 05:35:56 <doublec> you were just trying to get a cheap deal on 50 bitcoins ;)
947 2010-12-07 05:36:15 <xelister_> Orbixx: oh right, I will buy up to 5000 BTC from you
948 2010-12-07 05:36:16 <Orbixx> Does anybody have any experience compiling pyopencl? :<
949 2010-12-07 05:36:19 <xelister_> Orbixx: interested? :>
950 2010-12-07 05:36:28 <ArtForz> 5770...
951 2010-12-07 05:36:32 <xelister_> Orbixx: I have experience in getting pyopencl to work
952 2010-12-07 05:36:33 <a_meteorite> hmm, so not much...
953 2010-12-07 05:36:37 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 160000
954 2010-12-07 05:36:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 12 hours, 14 minutes, and 7 seconds
955 2010-12-07 05:36:47 <Orbixx> xelister_: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lOpenCL
956 2010-12-07 05:36:55 <xelister_> Orbixx: my experience is: it sucks donkey cock
957 2010-12-07 05:36:58 <Orbixx> python configure.py --cl-inc-dir=/usr/local/cuda/include --cl-lib-dir=/usr/lib64/nvidia --cl-libname=OpenCL
958 2010-12-07 05:37:08 <Orbixx> ... Ah.
959 2010-12-07 05:37:17 <xelister_> Orbixx: that is why I switched to diablos-d3's miner. But it also suck cocks, just in other ways
960 2010-12-07 05:37:20 <MT`AwAy> Orbixx: install from your distro
961 2010-12-07 05:37:29 <Orbixx> MT`AwAy: Fedora doesn't have the package.
962 2010-12-07 05:37:37 <xelister_> Orbixx: but diablo's seem to work fine everywhere except for 5970 (where it has like half speed it seems)
963 2010-12-07 05:38:01 <ArtForz> I suspect diablos is also broken on other multiGPU setups
964 2010-12-07 05:38:02 <Orbixx> xelister_: Working with an nvidia chipset here.
965 2010-12-07 05:38:03 <xelister_> python opencl is packed for ubuntu and debian btw
966 2010-12-07 05:38:18 <xelister_> ArtForz: Im still not sure though is m0m's working or not on my multi gpu system
967 2010-12-07 05:38:41 <xelister_> ArtForz: wouldn't you have a moment to run ubuntu based system on one of 5970's and see if the speed is as expected or half
968 2010-12-07 05:38:48 <nanotube> [Noodles]: thanks, doublec already hooked me up :)
969 2010-12-07 05:38:51 <ArtForz> err... why not run on -testnet for a few hours and check expected vs. gotten blocks?
970 2010-12-07 05:39:23 <ArtForz> full vs. half should be pretty obvious over 50-100 blocks or so
971 2010-12-07 05:39:26 <xelister_> what is expected generation speed on testnet with 5970 (not o.c. - 530 M)
972 2010-12-07 05:39:59 <ArtForz> sec
973 2010-12-07 05:40:23 <ArtForz> about 44s/block
974 2010-12-07 05:40:39 <xelister_> how to calculate this? or can irc bot do that
975 2010-12-07 05:40:43 <Orbixx> Does mtgox charge for transaction processing?
976 2010-12-07 05:40:52 <ArtForz> testnet diff is currently 5.33
977 2010-12-07 05:41:20 <ArtForz> 5.33 * 2^32 / 530M = 43.2
978 2010-12-07 05:42:13 <Kiba> wee!
979 2010-12-07 05:42:20 <Kiba> some people just don't think bitcoin are useful