1 2010-12-08 00:10:28 <Lysacor> maybe I might get my cloak for donating to PDPC eventually... oh well it is a good cause :P
  2 2010-12-08 00:10:29 <Kiba> sighs what?
  3 2010-12-08 00:11:19 <Lysacor> asked in #freenode earlier this weekend and they say that it takes a few days before anything like that is applied to your account
  4 2010-12-08 00:16:44 <xelister> Diablo-D3: this is the null NPE im getting. any  idea how to fix it
  5 2010-12-08 00:26:12 <jgarzik> does freenode accept BTC donations yet?  :)
  6 2010-12-08 00:27:48 <doublec> we should rename bitcoin to tipcoin
  7 2010-12-08 00:28:03 <doublec> to reflect the majority usage of it
  8 2010-12-08 00:31:45 <chaord> doublec: ha! that's actually not a half bad idea
  9 2010-12-08 00:31:57 <chaord> it would resonate much better with mainstream consumers that way too
 10 2010-12-08 00:32:27 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you didnt pastebin it like I asked
 11 2010-12-08 00:47:06 <xelister> Diablo-D3: pastebin what?  I just did, above
 12 2010-12-08 00:47:34 <Diablo-D3> where?
 13 2010-12-08 00:48:04 <xelister> well above, and now see PM
 14 2010-12-08 00:52:46 <Xunie> doublec, do this: bitcoin is the idea, whitepaper and protocol, tipcoin is the implementation and network. :P
 15 2010-12-08 01:30:08 <jc_toronto> i have a question about bitcoin
 16 2010-12-08 01:30:47 <jc_toronto> as there are more and more bitcoins
 17 2010-12-08 01:31:00 <jc_toronto> it becomes harder to create new bitcoins
 18 2010-12-08 01:32:16 <jc_toronto> the bitcoins at the beginning didn't take that much to create, but they are worth more than the ones that were just created
 19 2010-12-08 01:32:25 <jc_toronto> sore worth the same
 20 2010-12-08 01:41:30 <Kiba> a Japanese tweeting person appears
 21 2010-12-08 01:41:35 <Kiba> !
 22 2010-12-08 01:42:06 <Kiba> the message was: Wikileaks, Freenet, BitCoinL??Fh???}WOj???]F`jB??`QK
 23 2010-12-08 01:42:27 <Kiba> What a life will be fun to be aligned. It only me?
 24 2010-12-08 01:42:37 <AAA_awright> Not the first person with that idea
 25 2010-12-08 01:44:19 <Kiba> http://www.mhatta.org/
 26 2010-12-08 01:44:34 <Kiba> possible candiate for Satoshi?
 27 2010-12-08 01:47:26 <jgarzik> Kiba: no cryptography mentioned, and I think he would have used GNU autotools, if Satoshi were that person
 28 2010-12-08 01:50:12 <AAA_awright> Why do you say that?
 29 2010-12-08 01:51:06 <Kiba> Satoshi licensed his project under MIT, no?
 30 2010-12-08 01:51:33 <AAA_awright> Let's ask about making it public domain
 31 2010-12-08 01:52:01 <AAA_awright> I'm that against software licenses now, it's an arcane practice that restricts freedom no matter what terms it has in it
 32 2010-12-08 01:52:30 <Kiba> anarchists are only plurity
 33 2010-12-08 01:52:40 <Kiba> though libertarian camp are the supermajority
 34 2010-12-08 01:53:03 <AAA_awright> Also, can someone with even half a brain reply to http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2035.0 I'm walking in the dark here
 35 2010-12-08 01:53:19 <AAA_awright> I thought that would be a popular thread
 36 2010-12-08 01:54:23 <Kiba> mysteriouslly
 37 2010-12-08 01:54:26 <Kiba> suffering the....
 38 2010-12-08 01:58:36 <ArtForz> probably because no one has a clue how that magic hash function is supposed to work
 39 2010-12-08 02:02:17 <Kiba> Rothbard's History is 50% off
 40 2010-12-08 02:02:22 <Kiba> rather than at
 41 2010-12-08 02:02:26 <Kiba> 50% off
 42 2010-12-08 02:15:54 <AAA_awright> Kiba: "Bump" heh
 43 2010-12-08 02:15:56 <AAA_awright> :)
 44 2010-12-08 02:15:58 <MT`AwAy> Kiba: forget japanese people, Satoshi is /not/ japanese
 45 2010-12-08 02:16:31 <MT`AwAy> AAA_awright: the only real license is WTFPL, public domain only has meaning in north america
 46 2010-12-08 02:16:34 <AAA_awright> Kiba: If you think it's a promising idea you might want to say something to that effect, but you don't know anything about cryptography to say
 47 2010-12-08 02:17:02 <AAA_awright> MT`AwAy: Citation needed... I don't know any court that just says "you can't use the software at all because it's public domain" not a single case.
 48 2010-12-08 02:17:11 <AAA_awright> Name one.
 49 2010-12-08 02:17:16 <Kiba> AAA_awright: yes, I don't know anything
 50 2010-12-08 02:17:33 <Kiba> I am your Joe Smosh average programmer
 51 2010-12-08 02:18:03 <AAA_awright> Right, say /that/ now I think other people will think I paid you off to say that or something (with 50BTC, let's say)
 52 2010-12-08 02:19:40 <MT`AwAy> AAA_awright: simple, because no non-american court would ever know what "public domain" is
 53 2010-12-08 02:20:16 <AAA_awright> MT`AwAy: It's defined with American definitions, that's what language is for
 54 2010-12-08 02:20:45 <AAA_awright> If I say "I want a doughnut" I don't have to describe the production process just because I'm ordering it from China
 55 2010-12-08 02:21:02 <AAA_awright> Judges aren't stupid
 56 2010-12-08 02:21:14 <AAA_awright> Lawyers might be, but that's why they aren't judges (that's my theory)
 57 2010-12-08 02:21:55 <AAA_awright> MT`AwAy: Also, without an injured party, it's unlikely a lawsuit could even be filed
 58 2010-12-08 02:22:56 <Zarutian> AAA_awright: "public domain" is "almenningur" in Icelandic. An very old concept not originating from America. (I think it was defined by a german published iirc)
 59 2010-12-08 02:23:23 <Zarutian> s/published/publisher/
 60 2010-12-08 02:24:19 <Diablo-D3> Zarutian: yes, but modern american law often predates even the british shit we stole from them
 61 2010-12-08 02:24:55 <Diablo-D3> a lot of it does come from germany
 62 2010-12-08 02:25:08 <Kiba> If the American didn't recongnize copyright law, America would be over run with British literature
 63 2010-12-08 02:25:11 <AAA_awright> Zarutian: Copyright law didn't even exist prior to what was it, the 1600s? Public domain is simply the state of your work not being copy-limited by the state.
 64 2010-12-08 02:25:19 <AAA_awright> As it was before copyright law.
 65 2010-12-08 02:25:34 <Kiba> AAA_awright: copyright laws exist before that as simple monopoly privillage
 66 2010-12-08 02:25:35 <AAA_awright> I don't see how Iceland plays in
 67 2010-12-08 02:25:50 <Kiba> in the 1600, they just make better "justification" for it
 68 2010-12-08 02:25:59 <AAA_awright> Kiba: This is true
 69 2010-12-08 02:26:11 <Kiba> which is plainly bullshit.
 70 2010-12-08 02:26:38 <AAA_awright> But that's besides the point anyways, "public domain" has an actual meaning. You can't define a word in another country to mean something it doesn't.
 71 2010-12-08 02:26:59 <Zarutian> AAA_awright: copyright is the right to publish a spefic work, that right print publishers of old bought from writers of the texts
 72 2010-12-08 02:27:57 <AAA_awright> Zarutian: Right
 73 2010-12-08 02:28:52 <andrew12> so wait, when solving a block, aren't you basically bruteforcing the hash algorithm in order to get the target hash?
 74 2010-12-08 02:28:57 <Zarutian> AAA_awright: so, iirc, it is slightly younger than the printing press
 75 2010-12-08 02:30:07 <Zarutian> and the Icelandic connection? I am an Icelander and just wanted to put in a word or two ;)
 76 2010-12-08 02:30:55 <AAA_awright> andrew12: A number lower that is lower the required difficulty, yeah
 77 2010-12-08 02:31:41 <andrew12> wait, it has to he lower than the target hash? that makes a bit more sense in terms of 'difficulty'
 78 2010-12-08 02:32:36 <tcatm> andrew12: Yes the check is hash <= target
 79 2010-12-08 02:32:49 <andrew12> has the hash ever been the target?
 80 2010-12-08 02:34:20 <tcatm> I don't have a searchable block database handy. You could ask theymos when he's around.
 81 2010-12-08 02:34:56 <tcatm> My guess would be that was never the case as it's highly unlikely.
 82 2010-12-08 02:35:07 <andrew12> yeah
 83 2010-12-08 02:35:21 <andrew12> what does bitcoin use for the hashes? sha1?
 84 2010-12-08 02:35:28 <tcatm> SHA256
 85 2010-12-08 02:35:29 <AAA_awright> sha256 iirc
 86 2010-12-08 02:35:41 <tcatm> Actually a nested SHA256
 87 2010-12-08 02:35:44 <jrabbit> http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/right-wing-declares-war-poor-kate-obeirne-c/#
 88 2010-12-08 02:35:57 <andrew12> so then it's like a 1/2^256 chance that you'll get the hash == the target
 89 2010-12-08 02:36:02 <andrew12> but it's possible
 90 2010-12-08 02:36:42 <tcatm> Of course, but 1/2^256 is a very small chance.
 91 2010-12-08 02:36:52 <andrew12> :D
 92 2010-12-08 02:38:57 <Kiba> MT`AwAy: did you as a person to translate page into Japanese?
 93 2010-12-08 02:42:05 <anarchyx> good deed for the month: inform your friends and family about jury nullification, and tell them to spread the word
 94 2010-12-08 02:42:19 <Ry4an> jury nullification++
 95 2010-12-08 02:43:48 <doublec> what is jury nullification?
 96 2010-12-08 02:44:02 <Kiba> let nullify the law!
 97 2010-12-08 02:46:05 <anarchyx> basically it allows any juror to rule not guilty, because he does not agree with the law, or because he really thinks hes innocent, or whatever reason (even false) - and on top of that hang the jury if the rest dont agree - so basically 1 jury member can rule someone not-guilty and let him off the hook
 98 2010-12-08 02:46:31 <anarchyx> even if all the others think hes guilty
 99 2010-12-08 02:47:16 <anarchyx> so if you are part of the jury and think the government shouldnt tax people, and you need to judge on some tax evador, you can let him free
100 2010-12-08 02:47:44 <anarchyx> its pretty powerful and highly controversial - if a defendant tries to mention it he will be punished severely
101 2010-12-08 02:47:44 <Kiba> the presecutor will surely be selecting pro-tax people
102 2010-12-08 02:48:02 <anarchyx> Kiba: both sides can decide on jurors right
103 2010-12-08 02:48:17 <anarchyx> you only need 1 anti-tax guy whos aware of nullification and you will have won
104 2010-12-08 02:48:49 <anarchyx> (but you cant ask if they know about nullification, cause they fucked up the system and supreme court wont rule on it yet)
105 2010-12-08 02:49:12 <Kiba> now, that will throw an an axe into the system
106 2010-12-08 02:49:12 <tcatm> how does that work?
107 2010-12-08 02:49:21 <Kiba> just say "not guilty"
108 2010-12-08 02:49:24 <anarchyx> thats why you hvave people handing out pamphlets to jurors sometimes
109 2010-12-08 02:49:26 <anarchyx> yep and stick to it
110 2010-12-08 02:49:29 <anarchyx> its that simple
111 2010-12-08 02:49:56 <anarchyx> other jurors can try to convince you otherwise but you just dont cave
112 2010-12-08 02:50:08 <anarchyx> =hung jury=end of trail
113 2010-12-08 02:50:37 <doublec> so juries need to be unaminous?
114 2010-12-08 02:51:00 <anarchyx> http://fija.org/
115 2010-12-08 02:51:08 <anarchyx> yeah
116 2010-12-08 02:51:09 <doublec> can't they just retrial with a different jury?
117 2010-12-08 02:51:17 <Kiba> double jeapordy
118 2010-12-08 02:51:23 <anarchyx> yes
119 2010-12-08 02:51:27 <anarchyx> wont work
120 2010-12-08 02:51:33 <anarchyx> kiba said it
121 2010-12-08 02:51:33 <Ry4an> It's a mistrial and they can retry.
122 2010-12-08 02:51:41 <doublec> in NZ they retrial
123 2010-12-08 02:51:43 <Ry4an> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hung_jury#United_States
124 2010-12-08 02:51:47 <Ry4an> in the US they do too
125 2010-12-08 02:52:05 <doublec> one high profile case they retrialed 4 times till they got a jury to convict someone
126 2010-12-08 02:52:16 <doublec> so much for 'reasonable doubt'
127 2010-12-08 02:52:18 <Ry4an> "A hung jury does not imply either the defendant's guilt or innocence. The government may retry any defendant on any count on which the jury could not agree."
128 2010-12-08 02:53:14 <lolcat> Are we discussing bitcoin and tax evasion?
129 2010-12-08 02:53:45 <doublec> no, we're discussing jury nullification
130 2010-12-08 02:54:03 <doublec> lolcat, did you see my note about running bitcoind on the N900?
131 2010-12-08 02:54:12 <doublec> lolcat, (I think it was you asking about it?)
132 2010-12-08 02:54:20 <andrew12> we're discussing replacing USD with BTC
133 2010-12-08 02:54:44 <lolcat> doublec: No, I did not see it. And yes it was me asking about it. I had some computer trouble earlier so I must have missed it.
134 2010-12-08 02:55:01 <doublec> lolcat, http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/bitcoind.gz
135 2010-12-08 02:55:05 <lolcat> andrew12: Then the chinese yuan would be tied up to bitcoins
136 2010-12-08 02:55:09 <doublec> download that on the N900, gunzip it and you can run it
137 2010-12-08 02:55:23 <lolcat> I have gunzip on it?
138 2010-12-08 02:55:32 <Kiba> we need a bitcoin exchange market in Korea, Tawian, and all the other rich Asian countries
139 2010-12-08 02:55:42 <doublec> lolcat, yes
140 2010-12-08 02:55:58 <doublec> it'll take a while to download the block chain - a chew a bit of battery doing it
141 2010-12-08 02:56:08 <doublec> but once that's done it doesn't use much battery power to just run
142 2010-12-08 02:56:11 <lolcat> doublec: Do you know what the adress to the bluetooth folder is?
143 2010-12-08 02:56:29 <lolcat> Is the block chain big?
144 2010-12-08 02:56:42 <lolcat> I only have 500MB download a month on it
145 2010-12-08 02:56:54 <doublec> best to do the block chain over wifi
146 2010-12-08 02:57:10 <doublec> I left it overnight
147 2010-12-08 02:57:26 <andrew12> each block is usually less...god dammmit why does my screensaver keep starting randomly
148 2010-12-08 02:57:32 <andrew12> each block is usually less than 1KB
149 2010-12-08 02:57:46 <lolcat> 96MB-ish?
150 2010-12-08 02:57:52 <andrew12> or less
151 2010-12-08 02:58:08 <doublec> lolcat, running bitcoind on the phone probably isn't that useful since there's not much you can use with it, and there's no gui so you have to type bitcoind commands in the terminal
152 2010-12-08 02:58:11 <doublec> but it's a start
153 2010-12-08 02:58:26 <andrew12> oh, and N900 == ?
154 2010-12-08 02:58:43 <doublec> Nokia N900 - linux based mobile phone
155 2010-12-08 02:58:44 <andrew12> I meant to ask that but my PC was being slow :<
156 2010-12-08 02:58:54 <andrew12> doublec: android? or just linux?
157 2010-12-08 02:59:02 <doublec> just linux - runs maemo
158 2010-12-08 02:59:15 <andrew12> i'd like to see a real bitcoin app for android
159 2010-12-08 02:59:32 <doublec> tcatm is working on one
160 2010-12-08 02:59:37 <andrew12> yay!
161 2010-12-08 02:59:46 <tcatm> well, not a real one. More a frontend.
162 2010-12-08 03:00:02 <anarchyx> hung jury/mistrial might lead to aquittal - the prosecutor will not always do another trial - and if we have lets say 10% of population against taxes, and aware of their jury rights, noone will ever get convicted
163 2010-12-08 03:00:03 <andrew12> tcatm: have you managed to get bitcoind running on it?
164 2010-12-08 03:00:19 <tcatm> No, I don't even have a android phone.
165 2010-12-08 03:00:31 <andrew12> hmm
166 2010-12-08 03:00:37 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/androidclient1.png
167 2010-12-08 03:00:54 <andrew12> do you know how one would get bitcoind running on android?
168 2010-12-08 03:01:07 <doublec> tcatm, nice!
169 2010-12-08 03:01:31 <doublec> andrew12, one would need to use the android NDK and go through much pain
170 2010-12-08 03:01:40 <andrew12> damn :p
171 2010-12-08 03:01:48 <doublec> it'd probably be easier using the latest android version, gingerbread
172 2010-12-08 03:01:53 <andrew12> wat
173 2010-12-08 03:01:53 <tcatm> Real bitcoind on android would require a major rewrite.
174 2010-12-08 03:01:57 <doublec> since they have a more up to date C++ library
175 2010-12-08 03:02:15 <lolcat> Me feels royaly stupid
176 2010-12-08 03:02:29 <andrew12> whoa never heard of gingerbread before
177 2010-12-08 03:02:35 <andrew12> sounds interesting
178 2010-12-08 03:02:53 <lolcat> doublec: I can get it to run :S I get premission denied with ./bitcoind
179 2010-12-08 03:03:02 <doublec> lolcat, chmod +x ./bitcoind
180 2010-12-08 03:03:05 <doublec> to make it executable
181 2010-12-08 03:04:02 <lolcat> Still permission denied
182 2010-12-08 03:04:40 <doublec> where did you download it to?
183 2010-12-08 03:04:48 <doublec> move it to your home directory
184 2010-12-08 03:04:51 <lolcat> MyDocs
185 2010-12-08 03:05:04 <doublec> MyDocs is probably set to not allow executable's
186 2010-12-08 03:06:33 <lolcat> Ahh
187 2010-12-08 03:07:02 <andrew12> MyDocs?
188 2010-12-08 03:07:20 <doublec> it's a folder holding your documents
189 2010-12-08 03:07:38 <andrew12> you mean My Documents?
190 2010-12-08 03:07:40 <andrew12> lol
191 2010-12-08 03:07:50 <doublec> No, it's MyDocs on the N900
192 2010-12-08 03:07:57 <andrew12> oh
193 2010-12-08 03:07:58 <andrew12> lol
194 2010-12-08 03:08:20 <doublec> Try typing long words like Documents on a cellphone and you'll appreciate the shorter names ;)
195 2010-12-08 03:08:31 <andrew12> I wish there was a simple cross compiler for android
196 2010-12-08 03:08:37 <lolcat> There it started!
197 2010-12-08 03:08:43 <andrew12> or arm i guess
198 2010-12-08 03:08:44 <doublec> great!
199 2010-12-08 03:09:05 <andrew12> I could probably get cmake to compile for arm
200 2010-12-08 03:09:26 <tcatm> Android doesn't work well with "normal" applications.
201 2010-12-08 03:09:51 <andrew12> yeah... cyanogen added htop and irssi and neither work properly :D
202 2010-12-08 03:10:07 <andrew12> they might work properly over adb shell but idk
203 2010-12-08 03:10:14 <lolcat> Oh well, it is late. I will set it up tomorrow. See ya
204 2010-12-08 03:10:22 <lolcat> doublec: Thanks for compiling
205 2010-12-08 03:10:29 <doublec> np
206 2010-12-08 03:11:24 <andrew12> the ndk has cross compilers in it
207 2010-12-08 03:12:02 <andrew12> I've never tried to figure out which one I want but it's got then :P
208 2010-12-08 03:12:43 <andrew12> s/then/them/
209 2010-12-08 03:12:55 <doublec> you can write simple libc based apps and run them using adb shell
210 2010-12-08 03:13:08 <doublec> but the android libc is quite limited
211 2010-12-08 03:13:15 <doublec> which makes porting difficult
212 2010-12-08 03:13:20 <andrew12> libc?
213 2010-12-08 03:13:31 <andrew12> I was thinking of just compiling the whole thing :p
214 2010-12-08 03:13:40 <andrew12> that's probably what you meant...
215 2010-12-08 03:14:41 <doublec> bitcoind requires a number of dependancies which don't have a show of working on android
216 2010-12-08 03:18:04 <andrew12> this is true
217 2010-12-08 03:20:43 <andrew12> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.msg27651#msg27651
218 2010-12-08 03:20:49 <andrew12> I've gotta try that
219 2010-12-08 03:27:37 <Ry4an> so with the block count ever growing does that mean the time to start generating coins will always go up too?
220 2010-12-08 03:28:03 <Lysacor> yep
221 2010-12-08 03:28:12 <Lysacor> recalculated every 2 weeks isn't it?
222 2010-12-08 03:28:29 <Lysacor> difficulty I mean?
223 2010-12-08 03:28:33 <doublec> the time to generate is based on the amount of computing power generating
224 2010-12-08 03:28:34 <Ry4an> Lysacor: that's the difficulty, but I'm talking about initial start-up/download time unless I'm missing something
225 2010-12-08 03:28:43 <Lysacor> aaah
226 2010-12-08 03:28:44 <doublec> so it will take longer to generate as more people generate
227 2010-12-08 03:29:00 <Ry4an> yeah, that I get. but I'm talking time-to-first-hash going up too.
228 2010-12-08 03:29:03 <Lysacor> Ry4an: you are right, depends on how long you have been off
229 2010-12-08 03:29:04 <doublec> yes, initial time to download the block chain will get longer
230 2010-12-08 03:29:17 <Lysacor> yep, that is right Ry4an
231 2010-12-08 03:29:20 <Ry4an> I started bitcoind 7 hours ago and it's still downloading blocks.
232 2010-12-08 03:29:53 <Ry4an> and is that also part of the intentional cost of generating coins, or just a result of how long it takes to get blocks
233 2010-12-08 03:30:11 <Lysacor> Ry4an: I have found if the block download seizes a bit and you aren't at current count, I close my client, wait a second, and reopen
234 2010-12-08 03:30:56 <doublec> Ry4an, time for the initial block download depends greatly on the speed of the node providing the blocks to you
235 2010-12-08 03:30:56 <Lysacor> Ry4an: that is the result of having a large block chain, and a distributed network. Sometimes distribution of the historical block chain can be slow.
236 2010-12-08 03:31:03 <Ry4an> it's not siezed.  It's been a steady march forward on a good net connection.  I'm at 91979.. 91999.. 92009,
237 2010-12-08 03:31:19 <Lysacor> definitely right then :P
238 2010-12-08 03:31:22 <Ry4an> Doublec: ahh, so I must've initially connected to a dud sender
239 2010-12-08 03:31:32 <doublec> there's been some discussion about providing some of the block chain as part of the client download
240 2010-12-08 03:31:36 <Ry4an> and with 96355 out there I can see I"m getting close.
241 2010-12-08 03:31:46 <Lysacor> Soon!
242 2010-12-08 03:32:16 <AAA_awright> I'm looking for a hashing function that produces an output with a constant number of bits of each value (say, "take this input and produce a binary number with 100 1's and 100 0's)
243 2010-12-08 03:32:52 <AAA_awright> Can that be done in constant time wrt the digit count?
244 2010-12-08 03:33:02 <Ry4an> AAA_awright: given 199 bits of that hash I can guess the last. ;)
245 2010-12-08 03:33:08 <andrew12> andrew12[]: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.msg27651#msg27651 1NkqZE4DA8h6Xbtz9GtJcfE1FcA8Z5yRJN
246 2010-12-08 03:33:22 <AAA_awright> Ry4an: Which is acceptable
247 2010-12-08 03:34:55 <Ry4an> AAA_awright: degenerate case: concat(HASH(M), INVERSE(HASH(M))
248 2010-12-08 03:36:13 <AAA_awright> Ry4an: What's that do
249 2010-12-08 03:38:33 <Ry4an> AAA_awright: It's just pointing out tha tif you want a 200 bit bash that has 100 zeros and 100 1s you, use a 100-bit hash and then append the inverse of that initial hash.   It meets the requirements, but if anything shows they're odd requirements.
250 2010-12-08 03:39:10 <AAA_awright> Ry4an: With arbritary digit counts... maybe a single 1 and 3042 0's
251 2010-12-08 03:39:23 <andrew12[]> that's a bit better
252 2010-12-08 03:39:38 <andrew12[]> moved my router so it was higher in the air and less tangled, and closer to my room
253 2010-12-08 03:40:54 <AAA_awright> But actually that might work anyways
254 2010-12-08 03:41:04 <AAA_awright> I need such a hash for something else too
255 2010-12-08 03:44:55 <nanotube> Ry4an: fwiw, i recently started a bitcoin node on my vps, and it took less than an hour to download the 95k+ blocks... so it all depends on your net connection, and your luck in what nodes you get.
256 2010-12-08 03:45:20 <nanotube> Ry4an: further, it's possible to download a file containing most of the block chain to get you started - as long as you trust the source. (e.g., you could get it from a friend)
257 2010-12-08 03:45:27 <AAA_awright> Even an hour is prohibititive
258 2010-12-08 03:46:01 <AAA_awright> The client does verify the transactions right?
259 2010-12-08 03:47:02 <Ry4an> yeah, I must've had a dud node.  I'll just let it finish out, but perhaps it could sample other connections and download in parallel or switchoff.  No big deal.  I'm up to 19 connections, so once this finishes out I should be good to go.
260 2010-12-08 03:53:58 <andrew12> hm
261 2010-12-08 03:54:00 <AAA_awright> Kiba: Know that HTTP status, what is it, 302 Payment Required?
262 2010-12-08 03:54:25 <AAA_awright> Think Bitcoin could implement an HTTP spec that finally uses that?
263 2010-12-08 03:55:14 <andrew12> "finally"
264 2010-12-08 03:55:26 <DemeGeek> I found a spelling mistake in the "Getting Started" documentation.
265 2010-12-08 03:55:37 <DemeGeek> "white" instead of "which"
266 2010-12-08 03:55:45 <andrew12> DemeGeek: it's a wiki. fix it. :p
267 2010-12-08 03:55:58 <DemeGeek> It is?
268 2010-12-08 03:56:07 <andrew12> I believe so
269 2010-12-08 03:56:14 <DemeGeek> I feel dumber now
270 2010-12-08 03:56:33 <DemeGeek> "This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong. "
271 2010-12-08 03:56:37 <andrew12> aww
272 2010-12-08 03:56:58 <DemeGeek> So close!
273 2010-12-08 03:58:23 <DemeGeek> What is to stop somebody from just accumlating all the BTC?
274 2010-12-08 03:58:28 <andrew12> I fixed it
275 2010-12-08 03:58:41 <AAA_awright> HTTP/1.1 302 Payment Required
276 2010-12-08 03:58:44 <andrew12> DemeGeek: what?
277 2010-12-08 03:58:59 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: no one uses that.
278 2010-12-08 03:59:07 <andrew12> AAA_awright: is 302 an actual HTTP code?
279 2010-12-08 03:59:22 <AAA_awright> Wait no, that's for redirection
280 2010-12-08 03:59:25 <andrew12> (payment required)
281 2010-12-08 03:59:30 <Diablo-D3> payment required is
282 2010-12-08 03:59:33 <Diablo-D3> its not 302
283 2010-12-08 03:59:34 <AAA_awright> It's 402
284 2010-12-08 03:59:36 <Diablo-D3> 302 is redirection
285 2010-12-08 03:59:45 <Diablo-D3> payment required has never been implemented
286 2010-12-08 03:59:49 <Diablo-D3> its basically an impossibility
287 2010-12-08 03:59:51 <AAA_awright> 4xx is a client error
288 2010-12-08 03:59:52 <andrew12> heh
289 2010-12-08 03:59:53 <DemeGeek> One of the main parts of BitCoin is to stop a bank (or the like) from store the wealth for it's own.
290 2010-12-08 04:00:03 <Diablo-D3> http is not designed for persistent state applications
291 2010-12-08 04:00:09 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: I don't see how impossibility follows from never been implemented
292 2010-12-08 04:00:18 <AAA_awright> There hasn't been any standard payment system
293 2010-12-08 04:00:20 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: its meant for pay per view systems
294 2010-12-08 04:00:26 <Diablo-D3> something that makes no sense on the internet
295 2010-12-08 04:00:31 <AAA_awright> Right, which is Bitcoin
296 2010-12-08 04:00:38 <Diablo-D3> you want to pay every time you view a page?
297 2010-12-08 04:00:43 <Diablo-D3> what is this, the telephone industry?
298 2010-12-08 04:00:51 <AAA_awright> The Internet isn't free
299 2010-12-08 04:00:58 <andrew12> DemeGeek: oh. it's not possible for someone to get all of the BTC because they don't ever really handle the money. I mean, it is possible, if everyone sent all their money to the same person
300 2010-12-08 04:01:02 <AAA_awright> In the economic or financial sense
301 2010-12-08 04:01:11 <Diablo-D3> Ive connected to web servers in orbit of Earth
302 2010-12-08 04:01:18 <Diablo-D3> I'd hate to see the roaming charges on that
303 2010-12-08 04:01:32 <AAA_awright> That's billed by your ISP reguardless of website, Diablo-D3
304 2010-12-08 04:01:48 <andrew12> AAA_awright: did you know that you're wrong
305 2010-12-08 04:01:51 <AAA_awright> I'm talking for using the resources of a particular server
306 2010-12-08 04:01:57 <andrew12> the internet is a network of networks
307 2010-12-08 04:01:57 <Diablo-D3> andrew12: he does and just doesnt give a fuck
308 2010-12-08 04:02:04 <Diablo-D3> the internet is a series of tubes!
309 2010-12-08 04:02:10 <andrew12> lol
310 2010-12-08 04:02:21 <AAA_awright> What are you even talking about?
311 2010-12-08 04:02:22 <Diablo-D3> actually, that senator was close
312 2010-12-08 04:02:25 <Diablo-D3> its a series of boobs.
313 2010-12-08 04:02:34 <nelisky> gavinandresen: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2135.msg28023#msg28023
314 2010-12-08 04:02:35 <andrew12> the internet is the block chain
315 2010-12-08 04:02:45 <Diablo-D3> some big, some small, some perky
316 2010-12-08 04:02:50 <Diablo-D3> mmmm perky tits
317 2010-12-08 04:03:23 <AAA_awright> Diablo-D3: It would certainly be better than having massive pages for donations and ads
318 2010-12-08 04:03:49 <AAA_awright> Just because no one uses it doesn't mean no one wants it... anyone who wants it simply hasn't produced the product that needs it
319 2010-12-08 04:03:54 <Diablo-D3> now, of course, gigantic tits, those are great too
320 2010-12-08 04:03:58 <AAA_awright> What are you even arguing anyways?
321 2010-12-08 04:04:06 <Diablo-D3> you just bury your face in them and happily suffocate
322 2010-12-08 04:04:54 <andrew12> suffocate happily ever after
323 2010-12-08 04:05:29 <andrew12> or suffocate ever after?
324 2010-12-08 04:05:37 <andrew12> happily ever suffocate
325 2010-12-08 04:09:22 <AAA_awright> ...
326 2010-12-08 04:11:15 <Lysacor> ok, so the auto-erotic asphyxiation discussion is underway in dev chat :P
327 2010-12-08 04:12:09 <andrew12> :D
328 2010-12-08 04:19:50 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: technically not auto-*
329 2010-12-08 04:19:58 <Diablo-D3> those boobs do belong to someone
330 2010-12-08 04:20:53 <Lysacor> lol true
331 2010-12-08 04:23:29 <Kiba> bitcoin...is the most rawest form of capitalism
332 2010-12-08 04:23:58 <echelon> :)
333 2010-12-08 04:24:51 <Lysacor> no regs, no problems... right? :P
334 2010-12-08 04:25:22 <Lysacor> just don't screw other people, and hope they follow the same unwritten rule
335 2010-12-08 04:28:13 <Kiba> Lysacor: yes.
336 2010-12-08 04:28:32 <Kiba> and you can't get society to raise hell to get back at that guy too
337 2010-12-08 04:28:36 <Kiba> so you gottach be responsible
338 2010-12-08 04:29:03 <Lysacor> Kiba: Karma, pure and simple
339 2010-12-08 04:32:16 <Kiba> the more complicated shit is how you deal with murderers..hmm
340 2010-12-08 04:32:39 <Kiba> at least on the internet, you don't have to
341 2010-12-08 04:38:10 <echelon> anyone interested in an assassination market?
342 2010-12-08 04:40:02 <Ry4an> Echelon: one imagine's it's inevitable, and at least the mechanics have all been worked out.
343 2010-12-08 04:41:54 <echelon> just need enough money in the bitcoin economy
344 2010-12-08 04:42:53 <echelon> right now most of the wealth is owned by ArtForz
345 2010-12-08 04:43:49 <nanotube> echelon: ArtForz doesn't own 'most of the wealth'. there are 4.8 million bitcoins in total, art has <50k coins, iirc.
346 2010-12-08 04:45:16 <echelon> oh, i thought it was more
347 2010-12-08 04:45:20 <echelon> but that still doesn't change the fact that ArtForz has the capacity to have someone assassinated
348 2010-12-08 04:46:54 <donpdonp> roflcopter
349 2010-12-08 04:47:14 <nanotube> echelon: doubtful. you'd have to find someone who is willing to take bitcoins in exchange. :)
350 2010-12-08 04:47:27 <nanotube> it's probably easier to do a cash swap.
351 2010-12-08 04:48:07 <echelon> i guess :/
352 2010-12-08 04:48:43 <Lysacor> well, identify a mark, prepare a bounty, figure a way to insert a message into the block chain, wait for responses in subsequent blocks... profit!
353 2010-12-08 04:49:39 <gribble> Error: "bc;calc" is not a valid command.
354 2010-12-08 04:49:39 <Lysacor> ;;bc;calc
355 2010-12-08 04:49:51 <Lysacor> lol I don't know how to use that program :P
356 2010-12-08 04:49:59 <nanotube> what do you wanna do, Lysacor ?
357 2010-12-08 04:50:20 <gribble> Here's a bitcoin wiki page about gribble: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=gribble
358 2010-12-08 04:50:20 <nanotube> there's a guide to ,,gribble on the wiki
359 2010-12-08 04:50:56 <Lysacor> cooless, thanks
360 2010-12-08 04:51:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 37000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes, and 38 seconds
361 2010-12-08 04:51:35 <Lysacor> ;;bc,calc 37000
362 2010-12-08 04:52:22 <Lysacor> I need to get an ATi card eventually, but I don't wanna lose gpu generation in the pool...
363 2010-12-08 04:52:38 <Lysacor> probably will just rebuild and make this system a dedicated bitcoin hasher
364 2010-12-08 04:52:57 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2477,"low":0.1701,"vol":24889,"buy":0.22,"sell":0.2399,"last":0.22}}
365 2010-12-08 04:52:57 <Lysacor> ;;bc,mtgox
366 2010-12-08 04:53:14 <Ry4an> so what sort of hashespersec do folks see w/ a good GPU?
367 2010-12-08 04:53:53 <Lysacor> AMD cards can get 150M-500M depending on the miner you use
368 2010-12-08 04:53:59 <nanotube> Ry4an: an ati 5970 gets about 630mhps, overclocked.
369 2010-12-08 04:54:00 <Lysacor> Mhash*
370 2010-12-08 04:54:22 <nanotube> a 5770, about 150
371 2010-12-08 04:54:23 <donpdonp> how many bytes long is one block?
372 2010-12-08 04:54:29 <Lysacor> 500 dollars... but the returns would be awesome
373 2010-12-08 04:54:36 <nanotube> donpdonp: depends on how many transactions there are in the block...
374 2010-12-08 04:54:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 630000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 15 hours, 17 minutes, and 52 seconds
375 2010-12-08 04:54:51 <Lysacor> ;;bc,calc 630000
376 2010-12-08 04:54:59 <donpdonp> nanotube: ah ok
377 2010-12-08 04:55:35 <Lysacor> hmmm the generation rate on that would pay for itself in a week or two of hashing potentially not counting eletrical costs
378 2010-12-08 04:55:43 <Lysacor> well... at current difficulty
379 2010-12-08 04:56:33 <nanotube> Lysacor: so... assuming difficulty stays (which it won't)... you need 500 usd, which at .25 usd per coin, you need 2000 coins, which means 40 blocks.
380 2010-12-08 04:57:09 <gribble> 25
381 2010-12-08 04:57:09 <nanotube> Lysacor: at 15 hours a block, it takes ,,(math calc 15/24*40) days
382 2010-12-08 04:57:20 <nanotube> so... quite a bit more than a week or two. :)
383 2010-12-08 04:57:27 <nanotube> almost 4 weeks
384 2010-12-08 04:57:33 <Lysacor> ok a month, or more :P
385 2010-12-08 04:57:57 <nanotube> yea, with the next difficulty of ,,bc,estimate coming in a couple of days... more. :)
386 2010-12-08 04:57:58 <gribble> 12008.57188392
387 2010-12-08 04:58:07 <nanotube> wooo, >12k now
388 2010-12-08 04:58:15 <donpdonp> I can picture an ATI VP of Sales going "wow numbers are way up this quarter. people love gaming on our cards." heh
389 2010-12-08 04:58:26 <Lysacor> good god... there goes the big ones :P
390 2010-12-08 04:58:27 <Diablo-D3> lol
391 2010-12-08 04:58:32 <Diablo-D3> ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!1
392 2010-12-08 04:59:01 <DemeGeek> I only have 96368 blocks :(
393 2010-12-08 04:59:02 <nanotube> donpdonp: haha yea... i don't know what the usual sales volume on the ATI 5970 usually is... but probably about 50-100 extra have been bought just for bitcoin...
394 2010-12-08 04:59:03 <donpdonp> ;;bc,stat
395 2010-12-08 04:59:03 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
396 2010-12-08 04:59:16 <nanotube> donpdonp: append s
397 2010-12-08 04:59:20 <donpdonp> ;;bc,stats
398 2010-12-08 04:59:20 <nanotube> ;;bc,blocks
399 2010-12-08 04:59:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96369 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 398 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 20 hours, 36 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12012.26638474
400 2010-12-08 04:59:23 <gribble> 96369
401 2010-12-08 04:59:31 <donpdonp> nanotube: thx i never remember that
402 2010-12-08 04:59:43 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,estimate 75000
403 2010-12-08 04:59:44 <gribble> 12012.26638474
404 2010-12-08 04:59:46 <nanotube> DemeGeek: looks like you have all of them (minus 1, which should be arriving any second now)
405 2010-12-08 04:59:47 <Diablo-D3> er
406 2010-12-08 04:59:48 <donpdonp> 12,000! booohooo!
407 2010-12-08 04:59:52 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 7500
408 2010-12-08 04:59:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7500 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 7 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 1 minute, and 17 seconds
409 2010-12-08 04:59:55 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 75000
410 2010-12-08 04:59:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 5 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes, and 7 seconds
411 2010-12-08 04:59:59 <DemeGeek> Checked again and have it,
412 2010-12-08 04:59:59 <Diablo-D3> so bleh
413 2010-12-08 05:00:01 <Lysacor> imagine having 4 of those in a chassis, hashing away... wow...
414 2010-12-08 05:00:11 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: or having 20.
415 2010-12-08 05:00:13 <Diablo-D3> like Art does
416 2010-12-08 05:00:15 <gribble> Here's a bitcoin wiki page about gribble: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=gribble
417 2010-12-08 05:00:15 <nanotube> donpdonp: have you seen the wiki page about ,,gribble ? that has all the commands...
418 2010-12-08 05:00:35 <DemeGeek> ,,Diablo-D3
419 2010-12-08 05:00:35 <gribble> Error: "Diablo-D3" is not a valid command.
420 2010-12-08 05:00:53 <Lysacor> 20??? good god how did Art pull that off... wow he must have some cash to spare or something
421 2010-12-08 05:01:00 <donpdonp> ;;bc,nexttarget
422 2010-12-08 05:01:01 <gribble> 96767
423 2010-12-08 05:01:12 <Lysacor> or the BTC market has been especially kind to him
424 2010-12-08 05:01:21 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: his cards paid for themselves
425 2010-12-08 05:01:43 <Lysacor> easily
426 2010-12-08 05:02:03 <DemeGeek> I am confused about how the bits and blocks work into an online currency
427 2010-12-08 05:04:02 <Lysacor> wow... now I wish I got into this early on :P
428 2010-12-08 05:04:17 <DemeGeek> Me too Lysacor
429 2010-12-08 05:04:20 <donpdonp> DemeGeek: there is a lot of relevant info in http://www.bitcoin.org/sites/default/files/bitcoin.pdf
430 2010-12-08 05:05:43 <Ry4an> DemeGeek: as I understand it the short answer is "the crypto provides an involatile, aritificial scarcity, and anytime you have something fungible, non-counterfitable, and scarce you have a currency"
431 2010-12-08 05:06:50 <DemeGeek> But Bills can be conterfited.
432 2010-12-08 05:07:09 <Ry4an> right, so they're not a very good currency. :)
433 2010-12-08 05:08:10 <joe_1> i see the price has rebounded back into the 20s today
434 2010-12-08 05:09:09 <DemeGeek> Isn't Crypto hackable as well?
435 2010-12-08 05:09:14 <Lysacor> pretty volatile, peaked at .24, definitely a trend developing, we will see where it goes
436 2010-12-08 05:10:36 <Lysacor> even if it is hackable, the rest of the network keeps a distributed database of the comings and goings on the network
437 2010-12-08 05:11:01 <Lysacor> so one compromised node in theory cannot easily affect the others if I read it right
438 2010-12-08 05:11:37 <Lysacor> it might compromise one account, but all accounts on the network would be a much more difficult task
439 2010-12-08 05:12:39 <Lysacor> the only weakness is if the local PC's are compromised, and an application were written to interact with the bitcoin server/GUI and force a transfer of all BTC assets to another account, centralizing it to one account eventually
440 2010-12-08 05:13:33 <Lysacor> something like that I forsee could still endanger the network, but it would not bring it down unless it was done to every active node all at once, or distrubted through the block chain (wild imagination here)
441 2010-12-08 05:13:51 <Lysacor> or done gradually in a way no one easily noticed
442 2010-12-08 05:14:24 <DemeGeek> Lysacor, since crypto is involved why not after stealing BTC just keep sending it around fake accounts?
443 2010-12-08 05:15:23 <Lysacor> The potential intruder could also be a victim of his/her own intrusion
444 2010-12-08 05:15:55 <DemeGeek> How?
445 2010-12-08 05:16:04 <Lysacor> spread a disease, and you could eventually get it yourself
446 2010-12-08 05:16:16 <Lysacor> Someone figures it out on their own
447 2010-12-08 05:16:23 <Lysacor> and performs the same attach
448 2010-12-08 05:16:25 <Lysacor> attack
449 2010-12-08 05:16:52 <Lysacor> regardless of the crypto involved, a compromised client is a compromised client
450 2010-12-08 05:17:35 <Lysacor> but, the compromise could be limited to the domain of operating systems it works on
451 2010-12-08 05:18:17 <Lysacor> considering though that the majority of PC's hashing today are using one of four different processing platforms (Intel, AMD, AMD Radeon, Nvidia GeForce)
452 2010-12-08 05:18:38 <Lysacor> Intel and AMD use a common instruction set in the x86 architecture
453 2010-12-08 05:19:18 <Lysacor> AMD Radeon, and Nvidia GeForce use a different instruction sets, but a common language in OpenCL
454 2010-12-08 05:19:21 <Diablo-D3> instruction set isnt really a meaningful comparison
455 2010-12-08 05:20:03 <DemeGeek> bc,calc 1470
456 2010-12-08 05:20:22 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: and, arguably, opencl is an instruction set as well
457 2010-12-08 05:20:23 <DemeGeek> ;;bc,calc
458 2010-12-08 05:20:24 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
459 2010-12-08 05:20:36 <DemeGeek> ;;bc,calc 1470
460 2010-12-08 05:20:37 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1470 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 39 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 13 minutes, and 58 seconds
461 2010-12-08 05:20:48 <Lysacor> Diablo-D3: that may be, however compromising the way a particular instruction set works is possible, though extremely unlikely
462 2010-12-08 05:20:57 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: C has been often called "portable assembly", and OpenCL's language is a minimal version of C
463 2010-12-08 05:22:45 <Lysacor> Diable-D3: I don't disagree with you at all, and my expertise in this area is limited, but would you agree with my assertions as I stated earlier, or is it just my own fantastical delusions?
464 2010-12-08 05:23:29 <Lysacor> wow I am mistyping a lot... I may need to go to bed soon :P
465 2010-12-08 05:24:33 <DemeGeek> You can generate BTC correct?
466 2010-12-08 05:24:50 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: also
467 2010-12-08 05:24:56 <Diablo-D3> I WROTE A MINER
468 2010-12-08 05:24:58 <Diablo-D3> WHAHAHAAAAAAAA
469 2010-12-08 05:25:10 <DemeGeek> Did they reply yet?
470 2010-12-08 05:25:19 <Lysacor> LOL yep :P
471 2010-12-08 05:25:37 <Lysacor> DemeGeek: who?
472 2010-12-08 05:25:47 <DemeGeek> The miner.
473 2010-12-08 05:25:55 <DemeGeek> They have harsh jobs
474 2010-12-08 05:26:09 <DemeGeek> Hope you were nice to them in the letter
475 2010-12-08 05:26:38 <Lysacor> yeah... it was a wall of text, fair enough
476 2010-12-08 05:27:10 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/user/Sp0ntanius#p/u/1/j51CIOcdFY0
477 2010-12-08 05:27:11 <Diablo-D3> fffffff
478 2010-12-08 05:28:47 <DemeGeek> Does it current'y cost $0.25 USD for 1 BTC?
479 2010-12-08 05:29:03 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/user/Sp0ntanius#p/u/0/DcZ7OSE6z7s
480 2010-12-08 05:29:05 <Diablo-D3> triple ffff
481 2010-12-08 05:29:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2477,"low":0.1701,"vol":24889,"buy":0.22,"sell":0.225,"last":0.22}}
482 2010-12-08 05:29:14 <Lysacor> ;;bc,mtgox
483 2010-12-08 05:29:44 <Lysacor> the market I generally use, mtgox, shows the last trade being around there
484 2010-12-08 05:30:05 <DemeGeek> How do you buy? Can you use paypal?
485 2010-12-08 05:30:15 <Lysacor> the charts I looked at show that the price at this stage could rise or fall, but I would say rise is more likely
486 2010-12-08 05:30:42 <Lysacor> you can wire, or use third-parties to get LibertyReserve dollars
487 2010-12-08 05:30:59 <Lysacor> I am not sure about the PP part though you could ask mtgox I am sure
488 2010-12-08 05:31:02 <Lysacor> www.mtgox.com
489 2010-12-08 05:32:10 <Lysacor> Diablo: That first video was a mind-bender, schweet
490 2010-12-08 05:32:21 <jgarzik> DemeGeek: you can negotiate PayPal on #bitcoin-otc (OTC == over the counter).  you can buy with credit card at https://www.bitcoingateway.com/
491 2010-12-08 05:33:04 <jgarzik> DemeGeek: easiest is mtgox.com as Lysacor noted, but obtaining Liberty Reserve USD is difficult.
492 2010-12-08 05:33:43 <jgarzik> DemeGeek: other places like nanaimogold take Western Union or money order
493 2010-12-08 05:34:45 <DemeGeek> Do you know of any place that takes Canadian?
494 2010-12-08 05:34:52 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWilSqYv8bI
495 2010-12-08 05:34:59 <Diablo-D3> you know whats wrong with this song?
496 2010-12-08 05:35:03 <Diablo-D3> vocals ruin it.
497 2010-12-08 05:35:36 <Lysacor> hmm lemme see
498 2010-12-08 05:36:16 <jgarzik> DemeGeek: Canadian post or cash deposit: http://www.nanaimo-gold.com/buy.php
499 2010-12-08 05:38:36 <davux> how would you, in python, wait for new transactions and react when there's one?
500 2010-12-08 05:39:32 <jgarzik> davux: with gavinandresen's monitor patches, you receive an HTTP request.  in mainline bitcoin, nothing to do but poll repeatedly, and notice new output.
501 2010-12-08 05:40:10 <davux> jgarzik: do you have any more information about that?
502 2010-12-08 05:41:00 <jgarzik> davux: which "that"?  :)
503 2010-12-08 05:43:14 <davux> about that feature
504 2010-12-08 05:43:53 <jgarzik> davux: which feature, (a) gavinandresen's monitor or (b) polling?  I listed two.
505 2010-12-08 05:44:42 <davux> jgarzik: the monitor patches, sorry
506 2010-12-08 05:44:51 <davux> i'm a bit tired
507 2010-12-08 05:46:53 <jgarzik> davux: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/monitorreceived
508 2010-12-08 05:47:08 <jgarzik> davux: and a bit outdated forum post http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1319.0
509 2010-12-08 05:47:35 <davux> thanks
510 2010-12-08 05:47:40 <jgarzik> davux: that change will cause bitcoin to send an HTTP POST request to a specified HTTP server, with details on the transaction
511 2010-12-08 05:48:47 <Lysacor> Could someone remind me again if the ATi 5870 is a stable card for mining, and worth buying? or just stick with 5770 for value?
512 2010-12-08 05:49:23 <Diablo-D3> why wouldnt it be stable?
513 2010-12-08 05:49:37 <genjix> what's wrong with this command?
514 2010-12-08 05:49:55 <genjix> gpg --decrypt encryptedfile --output unencryptedfile.png
515 2010-12-08 05:50:05 <genjix> usage: gpg [options] --decrypt [filename]
516 2010-12-08 05:50:23 <jgarzik> Lysacor: it's stable, yes
517 2010-12-08 05:50:28 <Lysacor> not sure, each card has it's quirks from what some have said, I just don't want to spend money on a card that isn't going to perform decently (even though anything compared to what I have now would be an improvement...)
518 2010-12-08 05:51:58 <grifferz> genjix: the --output unencryptedfile.png needs to appear before the --decrypt encryptedfile
519 2010-12-08 05:52:04 <jgarzik> Lysacor: if you're spending money get a 59xx :)
520 2010-12-08 05:52:05 <genjix> aha thanks
521 2010-12-08 05:52:08 <genjix> :)
522 2010-12-08 05:52:55 <Lysacor> yeah... I will probably have to buckle down for one of those...
523 2010-12-08 05:54:05 <davux> jgarzik: thanks for the info  i don't think it's that usable in bitcoIM's context, but it'll probably be useful to know about that patche someday
524 2010-12-08 05:54:18 <davux> patch*
525 2010-12-08 05:55:57 <jgarzik> davux: then I guess you're polling with listreceivedbyaddress
526 2010-12-08 06:00:18 <davux> yes it looks like the best approach
527 2010-12-08 06:03:12 <DemeGeek> Is Radeon any good for mining?
528 2010-12-08 06:05:21 <Lysacor> definitely it is
529 2010-12-08 06:05:31 <Lysacor> much faster than Nvidia cards
530 2010-12-08 06:05:55 <DemeGeek> I have an ATI and Radeon which should I use?
531 2010-12-08 06:06:14 <Lysacor> ATI makes the Radeon series
532 2010-12-08 06:06:19 <Lysacor> what model of Radeon card
533 2010-12-08 06:06:27 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
534 2010-12-08 06:06:28 <DemeGeek> 9550
535 2010-12-08 06:06:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96380 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 387 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 19 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12024.64271015
536 2010-12-08 06:07:02 <Lysacor> I don't know what that card puts out to be honest
537 2010-12-08 06:07:14 <Lysacor> if it is capable of mining, I am also unfamiliar
538 2010-12-08 06:07:24 <DemeGeek> 256 md DDR and 128-bit
539 2010-12-08 06:07:33 <Lysacor> anyone else have insight into that?
540 2010-12-08 06:08:27 <DemeGeek> guess I could try it and see if it blows up.
541 2010-12-08 06:09:45 <Lysacor> well it depends on if it supports ATi Stream SDK, or OpenCL
542 2010-12-08 06:10:03 <Lysacor> I just know ATI miners get huge numbers compared to Nvidia ones
543 2010-12-08 06:10:17 <Lysacor> CUDA versus Stream, you can read about it on the bitcoin forums
544 2010-12-08 06:14:32 <DemeGeek> I also have a MSI
545 2010-12-08 06:15:19 <Lysacor> MSI video card?
546 2010-12-08 06:15:31 <DemeGeek> yeah
547 2010-12-08 06:16:23 <Lysacor> what card is it?
548 2010-12-08 06:16:29 <Lysacor> what is the model?
549 2010-12-08 06:18:08 <DemeGeek> MS-8952
550 2010-12-08 06:18:37 <Lysacor> That won't mine sadly :(
551 2010-12-08 06:18:54 <Lysacor> if it did I would be surprised
552 2010-12-08 06:19:12 <DemeGeek> I was guessing it would be a little old
553 2010-12-08 06:19:52 <Lysacor> really the video cards that can mine are going to be PCI Express video cards, the ATI HD5xxx series is what most miners I have heard are running, except for the Nvidia holdouts like myself :)
554 2010-12-08 06:20:05 <Lysacor> then again I just started too
555 2010-12-08 06:20:09 <DemeGeek> All mine are AGP
556 2010-12-08 06:20:12 <Lysacor> so, I have little room to say much
557 2010-12-08 06:20:34 <Lysacor> yep, you might have a hard time mining on those
558 2010-12-08 06:20:45 <Lysacor> the other thing you could do is join a pooled mining effort
559 2010-12-08 06:20:54 <Lysacor> much easier to setup (windows or linux, doesn't matter)
560 2010-12-08 06:21:14 <DemeGeek> how does that work?
561 2010-12-08 06:21:17 <Lysacor> It allows you to combine the power of your processors, with those of the other pool members to create a faster pool
562 2010-12-08 06:21:36 <Lysacor> you share in the 50 Bitcoin reward if the pool solves the block first
563 2010-12-08 06:22:09 <Lysacor> read: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/bitcoin-pool/
564 2010-12-08 06:22:23 <Lysacor> or here http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2027.0
565 2010-12-08 06:22:50 <Lysacor> you just need to have an address for the pooling client to send to the server, so you can share in the bitcoins
566 2010-12-08 06:23:12 <Lysacor> you get a number of bitcoins based on the amount you contribute to the pool
567 2010-12-08 06:23:27 <Lysacor> it might not be that 50 full bitcoin amount, but it is something
568 2010-12-08 06:23:34 <genjix> ;;bc,blocks
569 2010-12-08 06:23:34 <gribble> 96382
570 2010-12-08 06:23:40 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
571 2010-12-08 06:23:41 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.2477,"low":0.1701,"vol":24920,"buy":0.225,"sell":0.2399,"last":0.2399}}
572 2010-12-08 06:23:55 <genjix> FUCK
573 2010-12-08 06:24:09 <Lysacor> yeah, it is rising
574 2010-12-08 06:24:17 <DemeGeek> JUst joined tghe pool with this pc
575 2010-12-08 06:24:17 <genjix> i was waiting for bitcoin price to drop a little before buying :((((((((((
576 2010-12-08 06:24:17 <Lysacor> not a bad thing, unless you are looking to buy :P
577 2010-12-08 06:24:28 <genjix> goddmit
578 2010-12-08 06:24:32 <DemeGeek> but it seems to be a windows thing.
579 2010-12-08 06:24:34 <Lysacor> nice! did you feed it your bitcoin address?
580 2010-12-08 06:24:40 <DemeGeek> yes
581 2010-12-08 06:24:50 <Lysacor> it has a windows and linux client
582 2010-12-08 06:24:54 <DemeGeek> I know how to do that much
583 2010-12-08 06:25:03 <Lysacor> the linux client you can compile
584 2010-12-08 06:25:14 <Lysacor> lol I didn't mean to patronize ya
585 2010-12-08 06:25:35 <Lysacor> if you have more than one core on your processor, you can run more than one miner on your computer
586 2010-12-08 06:25:40 <Lysacor> more than one pooling client
587 2010-12-08 06:25:45 <genjix> FreeMoney: you selling PS for BTC?
588 2010-12-08 06:26:26 <Lysacor> and make sure to use the same address for all of the pooling clients you control
589 2010-12-08 06:26:30 <genjix> i will do 0.2 for $500
590 2010-12-08 06:26:32 <DemeGeek> why?
591 2010-12-08 06:26:52 <Lysacor> because it is cumulative, it determines what you contribute based on the address it is sending the Bitcoins to
592 2010-12-08 06:27:32 <DemeGeek> Does Graphics Card still count for this type?
593 2010-12-08 06:27:33 <Lysacor> you can keep them all separate and give them different addresses if you want
594 2010-12-08 06:27:43 <Lysacor> but it makes it harder to calculate what you are going to get
595 2010-12-08 06:27:57 <Lysacor> Nvidia graphics cards can be used, but it is only half as fast
596 2010-12-08 06:28:07 <DemeGeek> 0.00556898 BTC so far for me
597 2010-12-08 06:28:17 <Lysacor> the total pool right now is processing as much as an average ATI card does by itself
598 2010-12-08 06:28:24 <Lysacor> it will rise
599 2010-12-08 06:28:28 <Lysacor> people connect and disconnect
600 2010-12-08 06:28:34 <Lysacor> their contributions vary
601 2010-12-08 06:28:45 <DemeGeek> I am gonna connect another of my pcs
602 2010-12-08 06:28:59 <Lysacor> connect them all if you want
603 2010-12-08 06:29:02 <Lysacor> the more the better
604 2010-12-08 06:29:26 <DemeGeek> Do you know if the client is portable? I could run it at school too then.
605 2010-12-08 06:29:28 <Lysacor> time to go to bed, go ahead and read more about it, defintiely a cool topic
606 2010-12-08 06:29:29 <Lysacor> cya later!
607 2010-12-08 06:29:39 <DemeGeek> cya!
608 2010-12-08 06:29:40 <Lysacor> yes
609 2010-12-08 06:29:41 <Lysacor> but
610 2010-12-08 06:29:44 <Lysacor> be careful
611 2010-12-08 06:29:59 <Lysacor> you are using other people's resources, and it uses 100 percent of the CPU
612 2010-12-08 06:30:02 <Lysacor> it WILL be noticed
613 2010-12-08 06:30:21 <Lysacor> I really wouldn't recommend putting it on computers where you don't have permission
614 2010-12-08 06:32:15 <genjix> im buying 3k BTC in PokerStars USD if anyone is interested.
615 2010-12-08 06:37:58 <genjix> joe_1, nanotube ... anyone else?
616 2010-12-08 06:39:20 <joe_1> i dont have an account with them
617 2010-12-08 06:40:21 <genjix> bah :p
618 2010-12-08 06:43:04 <joe_1> are you looking to get it into cashcow casino and play some roulette?
619 2010-12-08 06:44:26 <genjix> nah, just have more btc online
620 2010-12-08 06:44:51 <genjix> unless you want to play betco.in ... I have an hour to spare :p
621 2010-12-08 06:46:31 <joe_1> ok
622 2010-12-08 06:46:33 <joe_1> wat stakes
623 2010-12-08 06:47:37 <genjix> let me deposit first
624 2010-12-08 06:49:11 <joe_1> how much are you putting in
625 2010-12-08 06:49:16 <genjix> 90 btc
626 2010-12-08 06:52:21 <joe_1> how many confirmations does it need
627 2010-12-08 06:53:05 <genjix> i dont know
628 2010-12-08 06:53:18 <joe_1> 1 cause it just went in with 1
629 2010-12-08 06:53:22 <genjix> damn i have 20 btc in some account but i dont know the name
630 2010-12-08 06:53:34 <genjix> how can I get a list of my accounts?
631 2010-12-08 06:54:09 <joe_1> at betco.in?
632 2010-12-08 06:54:47 <genjix> nope with bitcoind
633 2010-12-08 06:54:50 <genjix> im using svn
634 2010-12-08 06:55:16 <genjix> and the new bitcoin has accounts. however there's no way to get a list of accounts that you have (yet)
635 2010-12-08 06:55:41 <genjix> and I've sent 20 btc to one of these accounts but forgotten the name. So my those 20 btc are locked up :p
636 2010-12-08 06:55:47 <joe_1> really? that sucks. may want to revert back to an old version that will give you access to all your money?
637 2010-12-08 06:56:14 <genjix> nope cos its a new feature.
638 2010-12-08 06:56:27 <genjix> lets just play .10-.25 then
639 2010-12-08 06:56:31 <genjix> 25 btc stacks
640 2010-12-08 06:57:24 <joe_1> ok i'm in cerrt
641 2010-12-08 07:00:03 <genjix> anyone else want to join us poker on betco.in
642 2010-12-08 07:02:41 <genjix> lol wtf joe
643 2010-12-08 07:16:52 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
644 2010-12-08 07:16:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96393 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 374 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 17 hours, 48 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12045.11274146
645 2010-12-08 07:21:58 <DemeGeek> Mining is making money right?
646 2010-12-08 07:28:00 <scibotic> Hi guys.
647 2010-12-08 07:33:13 <scibotic> So does Vekja still have a monopoly on anonymous hosting?
648 2010-12-08 08:00:15 <FreeMoney> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1905.0
649 2010-12-08 08:00:24 <FreeMoney> at least one other guy
650 2010-12-08 08:04:22 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 96000
651 2010-12-08 08:04:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 96000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes, and 32 seconds
652 2010-12-08 08:05:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4300 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 13 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes, and 0 seconds
653 2010-12-08 08:05:03 <roberthl> ;;bc,calc 4300
654 2010-12-08 08:05:48 <doublec> That next difficulty increase is going to extend the times somewhat
655 2010-12-08 08:13:50 <genjix> gg joe_1
656 2010-12-08 08:14:50 <genjix> ;;bc,blocks
657 2010-12-08 08:14:51 <gribble> 96402
658 2010-12-08 08:14:56 <genjix> ;;bc,help
659 2010-12-08 08:14:56 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, and Alias bc,totalbc
660 2010-12-08 08:15:05 <genjix> ;;bc,estimate
661 2010-12-08 08:15:06 <gribble> 12047.74821173
662 2010-12-08 08:15:15 <genjix> ;;bc,totalbc
663 2010-12-08 08:15:15 <gribble> 4820150.00000000
664 2010-12-08 08:18:24 <genjix> how can I get a list of all accounts associated with a wallet?
665 2010-12-08 08:19:37 <finnomenon> the entire transfer history will always exist and keep on groing, right?
666 2010-12-08 08:21:01 <joe_1> u2 genjix
667 2010-12-08 08:28:37 <doublec> genjix, can you not just send coins without an account?
668 2010-12-08 08:28:44 <genjix> no
669 2010-12-08 08:28:50 <doublec> genjix, or are coins in accounts 'special' and never used for sends?
670 2010-12-08 08:29:01 <genjix> in the new svn you can't do that
671 2010-12-08 08:29:06 <doublec> ugh
672 2010-12-08 08:29:15 <genjix> an account is like a separate bitcoin install
673 2010-12-08 08:29:36 <genjix> but when you do bitcoind getbalance then it shows all of your money from all accounts together
674 2010-12-08 08:30:03 <doublec> put some debug in getbalance that prints out the account name as it computes the balance?
675 2010-12-08 08:30:06 <genjix> but there's no way to find a list of all your accounts or to send money from each account
676 2010-12-08 08:30:13 <genjix> aha good idea
677 2010-12-08 08:42:04 <genjix> gavinandresen: im trying to make a patch to add json getlistaddresses... but it seems like the only way to get it is to loop through the list of addresses or transactions and check for unique accounts.
678 2010-12-08 08:43:39 <doublec> looks like it
679 2010-12-08 08:43:50 <genjix> ok thanks
680 2010-12-08 08:43:53 <doublec> that's probably why it hasn't been implemented yet :)
681 2010-12-08 08:49:32 <edcba> of course that's the only way :)
682 2010-12-08 08:50:08 <genjix> kk well ill hopefully have this patch done then
683 2010-12-08 09:06:31 <uberjar> I wish wikileaks would start accepting bitcoin donations
684 2010-12-08 09:06:39 <uberjar> since all their other donation schemes seem to have failed
685 2010-12-08 09:06:40 <uberjar> heh
686 2010-12-08 09:07:20 <genjix> not wise
687 2010-12-08 09:07:30 <genjix> the satoshi spoke
688 2010-12-08 09:09:45 <genjix> how can I submit bitcoin patches?
689 2010-12-08 09:09:47 <genjix> doublec: ?
690 2010-12-08 09:09:56 <genjix> a diff
691 2010-12-08 09:10:01 <doublec> genjix, post in the forums with a diff attached
692 2010-12-08 09:10:12 <doublec> if you search the forums you'll see posts with [PATCH] in the title
693 2010-12-08 09:10:13 <genjix> ok to development
694 2010-12-08 09:10:18 <doublec> yes
695 2010-12-08 09:10:24 <genjix> thanks
696 2010-12-08 09:10:33 <genjix> how do i attach to posts?
697 2010-12-08 09:11:37 <doublec> hmmm, might not be able to. You might need to upload it somewhere and link to it.
698 2010-12-08 09:11:47 <doublec> oh wait
699 2010-12-08 09:11:50 <doublec> "Additional Options"
700 2010-12-08 09:11:52 <doublec> click on that
701 2010-12-08 09:12:08 <doublec> There's an 'attach' button when you do that
702 2010-12-08 09:12:29 <genjix> oh ok thanks
703 2010-12-08 09:13:04 <genjix> heh, non-allowed file extension
704 2010-12-08 09:13:37 <doublec> .txt is allowed though
705 2010-12-08 09:13:51 <genjix> ah ok
706 2010-12-08 09:25:16 <genjix> ahh, I just submitted a patch and realised that listreceivedbyaccount does what I wanted
707 2010-12-08 09:25:40 <genjix> no it doesn't actually :p
708 2010-12-08 09:26:21 <genjix> that's actually kind of useless- who wants to see how much they've received?
709 2010-12-08 09:33:15 <doublec> I use it to show total donations on one of my sites
710 2010-12-08 09:33:28 <doublec> even if I withdraw it still shows total actually received
711 2010-12-08 09:33:36 <doublec> (this uses labels - its pre-account)
712 2010-12-08 09:34:15 <genjix> :o
713 2010-12-08 09:34:22 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 135000
714 2010-12-08 09:34:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 135000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes, and 24 seconds
715 2010-12-08 09:34:54 <genjix> are you selling btc for pokerstars?
716 2010-12-08 09:35:04 <[Noodles]> pools running contributed now, isnt it?
717 2010-12-08 09:35:18 <doublec> genjix, normally I could but i've sold most of my btc a few days ago
718 2010-12-08 09:35:23 <doublec> [Noodles], yes
719 2010-12-08 09:35:25 <genjix> shame
720 2010-12-08 09:35:27 <UukGoblin> hmm, I got a corsair AX850 PSU, it doesn't look as good as the Antec CP-1000
721 2010-12-08 09:35:34 <UukGoblin> and was 50% more expensive
722 2010-12-08 09:35:57 <doublec> genjix, have you been following the possible legal changes to poker in about two weeks?
723 2010-12-08 09:36:01 <UukGoblin> I didn't do any proper tests with them though, just the look & feel kinda comparison
724 2010-12-08 09:36:02 <genjix> yes
725 2010-12-08 09:36:04 <doublec> (For US players)
726 2010-12-08 09:36:10 <genjix> this is great news for me
727 2010-12-08 09:36:19 <doublec> are you US based?
728 2010-12-08 09:36:22 <UukGoblin> oh, what's the change? /me curious too
729 2010-12-08 09:36:41 <genjix> remeber I'm writing bitcoin poker?
730 2010-12-08 09:36:44 <doublec> UukGoblin, there's a bill to be introduced to make online poker legal and regulated
731 2010-12-08 09:36:51 <doublec> genjix, oh right, of course
732 2010-12-08 09:36:51 <genjix> 15 month blackout
733 2010-12-08 09:36:53 <doublec> yes
734 2010-12-08 09:37:03 <genjix> so no one can play online for 15 months
735 2010-12-08 09:37:12 <genjix> except through our software :)
736 2010-12-08 09:37:15 <doublec> to give newcomers (ie. casinos) a chance to get in
737 2010-12-08 09:37:18 <genjix> we're getting investors hopefully
738 2010-12-08 09:37:33 <genjix> if anyone wants to test, I run the stable server on #gondwana
739 2010-12-08 09:37:40 <genjix> #pangaea is the development channel
740 2010-12-08 09:37:42 <UukGoblin> doublec, presumably the gov are getting a cut on the rakes?
741 2010-12-08 09:37:48 <genjix> !help for help
742 2010-12-08 09:37:51 <doublec> UukGoblin, I'm not sure how it'll work
743 2010-12-08 09:37:51 <genjix> UukGoblin: yes
744 2010-12-08 09:37:56 <finnomenon> wouldn't a massive influx of poker dollars make the bitcoin pretty expensive?
745 2010-12-08 09:38:13 <UukGoblin> kinda cool though, they finally came to their senses
746 2010-12-08 09:38:15 <genjix> yep but we've setup an exchange with a fixed rate
747 2010-12-08 09:38:19 <doublec> UukGoblin, it's bad for existing professional players as they will have trouble playing for 15 months
748 2010-12-08 09:38:31 <UukGoblin> oh? they're not allowed to /play/?
749 2010-12-08 09:38:36 <genjix> nope
750 2010-12-08 09:38:37 <doublec> correct
751 2010-12-08 09:38:41 <doublec> it becomes explicitly illegal
752 2010-12-08 09:38:43 <genjix> for 15 months
753 2010-12-08 09:38:52 <doublec> for 15 months
754 2010-12-08 09:38:55 <genjix> after that *maybe* they might legalise it.
755 2010-12-08 09:38:58 <UukGoblin> fuck. that's odd
756 2010-12-08 09:39:01 <UukGoblin> oh, right.
757 2010-12-08 09:39:02 <UukGoblin> maybe.
758 2010-12-08 09:39:15 <genjix> worst laws ever :p
759 2010-12-08 09:39:26 <doublec> and it's going to be a 'ride along' bill
760 2010-12-08 09:39:33 <doublec> that is, attached to a must-pass piece of legislation
761 2010-12-08 09:39:36 <genjix> https://github.com/genjix/kartludox/wiki/screenshot_minimal.png
762 2010-12-08 09:39:45 <genjix> our poker client. its free software
763 2010-12-08 09:39:47 <doublec> same way as the UIGEA got introduced
764 2010-12-08 09:39:56 <genjix> so if anyone wants to setup a room, then I'll help them.
765 2010-12-08 09:40:04 <doublec> genjix, very nice
766 2010-12-08 09:40:12 <genjix> thanks
767 2010-12-08 09:40:56 <genjix> best of all it will be rake-free
768 2010-12-08 09:41:05 <doublec> I'm unsure if non-US people will be allowed to play in the regulated US rooms
769 2010-12-08 09:41:13 <genjix> they won't.
770 2010-12-08 09:41:16 <doublec> It might be poker the French and Italian sites
771 2010-12-08 09:41:19 <doublec> which completely sucks
772 2010-12-08 09:41:20 <genjix> it will be like pokerstars.fr
773 2010-12-08 09:41:27 <doublec> yeah
774 2010-12-08 09:41:33 <genjix> i am glad though
775 2010-12-08 09:41:39 <genjix> because pokersites are criminal
776 2010-12-08 09:41:48 <genjix> the rake is insane and everything's so shady
777 2010-12-08 09:41:57 <genjix> if bitcoin poker came a reality then it'll be for the good
778 2010-12-08 09:42:00 <doublec> how will you make money if its rake free?
779 2010-12-08 09:42:14 <genjix> fund through donations
780 2010-12-08 09:42:17 <genjix> and if that doesn't work
781 2010-12-08 09:42:21 <doublec> you want gamblers to donate?
782 2010-12-08 09:42:23 <doublec> good luck
783 2010-12-08 09:42:30 <genjix> then charge the top 10 volume players the operating costs
784 2010-12-08 09:42:35 <doublec> maybe if the donation was tied to a lottery ;)
785 2010-12-08 09:42:38 <genjix> erm, professional players
786 2010-12-08 09:42:58 <doublec> Hah, it'll become a game where people try to be the 11th volume player
787 2010-12-08 09:43:00 <genjix> it's in their interests to maintain a rake free site where they can play against fish
788 2010-12-08 09:43:11 <genjix> also selling services
789 2010-12-08 09:43:25 <genjix> like if you want a custom client or to open your own branded room with branded software
790 2010-12-08 09:43:36 <genjix> i'll make the changes as long as they're GPL
791 2010-12-08 09:43:49 <genjix> but you can also make non-GPL clients too.
792 2010-12-08 09:44:23 <genjix> i want a kind of free poker thing. not so interested in making tons of money myself (although it's a bonus)
793 2010-12-08 09:44:26 <genjix> https://github.com/genjix/kartludox/wiki/Protocol-rfc
794 2010-12-08 09:44:33 <doublec> UukGoblin, http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57/poker-legislation/reid-pushing-plan-legalize-u-s-online-gambling-summary-op-read-if-you-have-questions-930754/
795 2010-12-08 09:44:37 <genjix> that's my RFC for the protocol so far
796 2010-12-08 09:44:38 <doublec> UukGoblin, for more info
797 2010-12-08 09:45:27 <genjix> cliffnotes, http://pokerati.com/2010/12/03/reid-online-gambling-bill-inside-the-draftuigea-strengthened-foreign-sites-wanting-us-license-must-obey/
798 2010-12-08 09:46:13 <genjix> so if anyone here is interested in setting up a bitcoin poker room, then contact me.
799 2010-12-08 09:46:29 <UukGoblin> genjix, it's server-based, right? and you'll kindly host the servers?
800 2010-12-08 09:46:32 <UukGoblin> doublec, thanks
801 2010-12-08 09:46:46 <genjix> no you host, I provide software.
802 2010-12-08 09:47:30 <UukGoblin> and I presume the players have to trust the server?
803 2010-12-08 09:47:38 <genjix> yes
804 2010-12-08 09:47:56 <UukGoblin> hippich (or whatshisname) made his betco.in software available
805 2010-12-08 09:48:08 <UukGoblin> it was a bit buggy though
806 2010-12-08 09:48:13 <genjix> i know
807 2010-12-08 09:48:21 <genjix> it's based off the old poker server software
808 2010-12-08 09:48:24 <genjix> poker-network
809 2010-12-08 09:48:27 <genjix> but it's shit.
810 2010-12-08 09:48:41 <genjix> my protocol is the best.
811 2010-12-08 09:48:54 <UukGoblin> 'course it is
812 2010-12-08 09:49:01 <genjix> it runs over IRC so it's federated. I can show you now if you want.
813 2010-12-08 09:49:12 <UukGoblin> oh
814 2010-12-08 09:49:17 <UukGoblin> psyc is cool for stuff like that too
815 2010-12-08 09:49:28 <UukGoblin> does it have an IRC frontend interface as an option? :-O
816 2010-12-08 09:49:38 <genjix> yep join #gondwana
817 2010-12-08 09:53:48 <jaromil> for a running PSYC setup and links to web frontends and other software see http://hinezumi.im
818 2010-12-08 09:54:47 <genjix> hey jaromil
819 2010-12-08 09:55:00 <genjix> jaromil: hinezumi doesn't let me login with my nickname genjix
820 2010-12-08 09:55:28 <genjix> the reason I've made it so verbose in irc is because I want it to be easy to build clients
821 2010-12-08 09:55:39 <doublec> what is psyc?
822 2010-12-08 09:56:47 <genjix> it's like a universal gateway for lots of protocols
823 2010-12-08 09:56:48 <doublec> ooh, interesting
824 2010-12-08 09:56:50 <genjix> a bridge
825 2010-12-08 10:00:32 <doublec> genjix, what language did you use to write the server?
826 2010-12-08 10:00:53 <genjix> https://github.com/genjix/kartludox/tree/master/serv
827 2010-12-08 10:00:58 <UukGoblin> genjix, you will have problems with flooding
828 2010-12-08 10:01:10 <UukGoblin> genjix, if you want to make it easy, make it send JSON ;-)
829 2010-12-08 10:01:14 <UukGoblin> people can read JSON
830 2010-12-08 10:01:17 <finnomenon> easy to build clients = easy to build bots?
831 2010-12-08 10:01:34 <jaromil> doublec: for the theory behind: http://psyc.eu
832 2010-12-08 10:01:57 <jaromil> it's also a "push" approach to news distribution as opposed to the pull approach of RSS
833 2010-12-08 10:02:14 <jaromil> so it has programmable room publication to protocols like JSON
834 2010-12-08 10:02:38 <doublec> jaromil, thanks. are you involved in development?
835 2010-12-08 10:02:41 <jaromil> you can use normal IRC bots on it, but you can also program rooms in a simil-C language
836 2010-12-08 10:02:42 <genjix> UukGoblin: what if the irc server has flood control though?
837 2010-12-08 10:02:56 <UukGoblin> genjix, well, if it does, that's OK
838 2010-12-08 10:03:12 <UukGoblin> not all of them do though, depends which one will get used
839 2010-12-08 10:03:18 <jaromil> doublec: i'm a user, i know developers and admin the hinezumi instance, but i couldn't contribute to its code so far
840 2010-12-08 10:03:33 <jaromil> admin is a big word, i'm not even the only one there
841 2010-12-08 10:03:59 <jaromil> we were trying to get its development into google summer of code, to have some money to continue, but nada
842 2010-12-08 10:04:43 <jaromil> did you register your nickname already and forgot the pass? i've seen you on the server...
843 2010-12-08 10:05:41 <doublec> jaromil, me? Not that I recall.
844 2010-12-08 10:07:07 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 150000
845 2010-12-08 10:07:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 150000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 2 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes, and 3 seconds
846 2010-12-08 10:07:18 <genjix> UukGoblin: although also adding JSON is easy
847 2010-12-08 10:18:36 <genjix> jaromil: [11:12] [Notice] -hinezumi.im- This person is already connected.
848 2010-12-08 10:23:31 <andrew12[]> quit
849 2010-12-08 10:23:32 <andrew12[]> er
850 2010-12-08 10:40:21 <[Noodles]> ;;bc, stats
851 2010-12-08 10:40:22 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
852 2010-12-08 10:40:29 <MT`AwAy> [Noodles]: without the space
853 2010-12-08 10:40:37 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,stats
854 2010-12-08 10:40:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96418 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 349 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 15 hours, 5 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12018.41773002
855 2010-12-08 10:40:49 <[Noodles]> 12k, geez
856 2010-12-08 10:41:59 <[Noodles]> 10.12blocks/hr and still growing
857 2010-12-08 10:42:57 <MT`AwAy> growing difficulty is a good thing, it'd be better if cpu power was more distributed
858 2010-12-08 10:45:25 <[Noodles]> well, it's up to the users, to hook up more power, isnt it? some do, some don't
859 2010-12-08 11:01:55 <jaromil> genjix: yes i see you connected on hinezumi
860 2010-12-08 11:02:03 <jaromil> doublec: no i was meaning gengjix
861 2010-12-08 11:02:06 <jaromil> sry i'm in a meeting...
862 2010-12-08 11:02:46 <genjix> jaromil: except im not connect now
863 2010-12-08 11:03:29 <jaromil> ack
864 2010-12-08 11:11:10 <doublec> ;;bc,stats
865 2010-12-08 11:11:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96418 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 349 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 15 hours, 5 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12018.41773002
866 2010-12-08 11:55:39 <TheAncientGoat> Anyone from the mining pool here?
867 2010-12-08 11:56:00 <[Noodles]> i'm all wet
868 2010-12-08 11:56:09 <TheAncientGoat> :P
869 2010-12-08 11:56:13 <[Noodles]> ^.^
870 2010-12-08 11:57:37 <TheAncientGoat> Running with Cuda?
871 2010-12-08 11:57:50 <[Noodles]> yep
872 2010-12-08 11:58:22 <TheAncientGoat> On windows or linux?
873 2010-12-08 11:58:29 <[Noodles]> win7
874 2010-12-08 11:58:52 <TheAncientGoat> darnit, trying to get the cuda code to compile on linux, but there aren't really any instructions
875 2010-12-08 12:07:27 <TheAncientGoat> Oh wait, I see
876 2010-12-08 12:17:31 <[Noodles]> so, got it to work?
877 2010-12-08 12:18:56 <[Noodles]> it's still in an experimental state anyway, superslow compared to standalone and burns CPU too
878 2010-12-08 12:25:15 <TheAncientGoat> Nope, I have to install new drivers and the entire sdk which is huge
879 2010-12-08 12:31:56 <andrew12> ffffffffffffff
880 2010-12-08 12:58:27 <LobsterMan> www.mastercard.com
881 2010-12-08 12:58:28 <LobsterMan> it's down
882 2010-12-08 12:58:38 <MT`AwAy> :D
883 2010-12-08 12:58:49 <MT`AwAy> mastercard has decided to stop donations to wikileaks
884 2010-12-08 12:58:52 <MT`AwAy> it may be related
885 2010-12-08 12:59:57 <scibotic> Lol
886 2010-12-08 13:01:20 <LobsterMan> likely
887 2010-12-08 13:01:24 <LobsterMan> +1 anonymous
888 2010-12-08 13:02:15 <scibotic> :<
889 2010-12-08 13:03:58 <finnomenon> could the BTC economy handle it if wikileaks decided to accept bitcoins?
890 2010-12-08 13:04:12 <MT`AwAy> finnomenon: they said no
891 2010-12-08 13:04:26 <finnomenon> wikileaks?
892 2010-12-08 13:04:36 <MT`AwAy> yep
893 2010-12-08 13:04:40 <MT`AwAy> too young/unreliable/etc
894 2010-12-08 13:09:46 <finnomenon> MT`AwAy: do you think BTC would have been able to cope with it?
895 2010-12-08 13:09:59 <MT`AwAy> finnomenon: for now there's not enough exchange points
896 2010-12-08 13:10:18 <MT`AwAy> if wikileaks accepts btc, there's a handful of websites to get closed to make btc non-exchangeable
897 2010-12-08 13:10:29 <LobsterMan> irc.anonops.net #operationpayback
898 2010-12-08 13:13:14 <[Noodles]> well, exchanges could be set up through TOR, i2p and such, but even if, the btc-economy is just to small, i'd think wikileaks needs some real money, our biggest bounty so far is about 2500bucks, petty cash for WL
899 2010-12-08 13:14:23 <[Noodles]> eceonomy isnt even 1million-usd, if lots of btc are sold, we've seen it yesterday
900 2010-12-08 13:16:31 <MT`AwAy> [Noodles]: anyway it was a wise answer from wikileaks to say "no"
901 2010-12-08 13:16:36 <MT`AwAy> maybe in a few years it'll be possible
902 2010-12-08 13:18:02 <[Noodles]> hopefully, until then let's just aim a bit lower ^.^
903 2010-12-08 13:32:38 <gavinandresen> Good morning bit-people.
904 2010-12-08 13:41:18 <genjix> hello bit-man
905 2010-12-08 15:03:53 <schmooo> I am mining on my GPUs and CPU at the same time. :D
906 2010-12-08 15:04:08 <schmooo> Getting 95000khash/s :)
907 2010-12-08 15:06:42 <nanotube> ;;bc,calc 95000
908 2010-12-08 15:06:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 95000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 days, 5 hours, 26 minutes, and 56 seconds
909 2010-12-08 15:06:47 <nanotube> not too shabby. :)
910 2010-12-08 15:07:02 <schmooo> yeah pretty happy.
911 2010-12-08 15:07:17 <schmooo> http://upload.mindfuzz.net/files/mining.png
912 2010-12-08 15:07:44 <schmooo> Slower here 'cause it's not overclocked in this screenshot.
913 2010-12-08 15:10:43 <[Noodles]> try jgarzik's cpu-miner with the 4way-algo, might speed up your cpu a bit
914 2010-12-08 15:10:50 <tcatm> http://bitcoincharts.com/media/stuff/gpus.png :)
915 2010-12-08 15:12:46 <[Noodles]> nice ^.^
916 2010-12-08 15:13:08 <schmooo> Nice.
917 2010-12-08 15:13:17 <schmooo> [Noodles]: I will give that a go :D
918 2010-12-08 15:14:27 <tcatm> ;;bc,calc 295000
919 2010-12-08 15:14:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 295000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 day, 8 hours, 40 minutes, and 12 seconds
920 2010-12-08 15:17:00 <nanotube> ;;bc,stats
921 2010-12-08 15:17:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96457 | Current Difficulty: 8078.19525793 | Next Difficulty At Block: 96767 | Next Difficulty In: 310 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 10 hours, 48 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11987.95806491
922 2010-12-08 15:17:18 <nanotube> not too long until next difficulty. :)
923 2010-12-08 15:18:08 <[Noodles]> +50% it seems
924 2010-12-08 15:18:17 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,calc 120000
925 2010-12-08 15:18:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 3 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes, and 49 seconds
926 2010-12-08 15:19:48 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 1 day, 8 hours, 7 minutes, and 31 seconds
927 2010-12-08 15:19:48 <[Noodles]> ;;bc,calc 300000
928 2010-12-08 15:20:49 <Keefe> ;;bc,calc 1940000
929 2010-12-08 15:20:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1940000 Khps, given current difficulty of 8078.19525793 , is 4 hours, 58 minutes, and 4 seconds
930 2010-12-08 15:21:49 <davux> I have an ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LY, what GPU miner should I use on Linux?
931 2010-12-08 15:22:06 <Keefe> sounds old...
932 2010-12-08 15:22:21 <davux> it is :)
933 2010-12-08 15:22:34 <Keefe> probably can't do opencl then
934 2010-12-08 15:23:01 <tcatm> Yup. No OpenCL on that card...