1 2010-12-10 00:00:37 <kiba> domain squatters can sit on their marginally profitable domains
  2 2010-12-10 00:00:44 <kiba> all they want
  3 2010-12-10 00:01:38 <appamatto> may the best system win :p
  4 2010-12-10 00:01:45 <kiba> theymos: there should be no trial system
  5 2010-12-10 00:01:50 <theymos> I agree.
  6 2010-12-10 00:02:04 <kiba> if you register it, you don't profit from it, you pay for it, period.
  7 2010-12-10 00:02:18 <kiba> that will solve most of the worthless squatering and make them take real risk.
  8 2010-12-10 00:03:04 <ArtForz> yep, trial = BS
  9 2010-12-10 00:03:06 <gribble> Error: "blocks" is not a valid command.
 10 2010-12-10 00:03:06 <Zarutian> ;;blocks
 11 2010-12-10 00:03:12 <gribble> 96781
 12 2010-12-10 00:03:12 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
 13 2010-12-10 00:03:15 <theymos> Domains are much like land: each section is unique, and can only be owned by one person. Transfers can only happen willingly, or through abandonment. And first come = first served.
 14 2010-12-10 00:05:39 <kiba> simple, uber-predictable ++
 15 2010-12-10 00:10:33 <Zarutian> hmm, perhaps you can tell me, what do you think inversed killfile might be? (Reffering to Idoru by William Gibson)
 16 2010-12-10 00:15:24 <KwukDuck> anyone have a clue why a fast new graphics card would give relative low hashing rate on poclbm?
 17 2010-12-10 00:17:04 <Diablo-D3> is it nvidia?
 18 2010-12-10 00:17:10 <KwukDuck> yes
 19 2010-12-10 00:17:29 <KwukDuck> it gives 77.000khash on poclbm and 80.000 on your diablo miner
 20 2010-12-10 00:17:52 <Diablo-D3> thats why
 21 2010-12-10 00:17:57 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is extremely slow
 22 2010-12-10 00:18:04 <Diablo-D3> wait
 23 2010-12-10 00:18:05 <Diablo-D3> rewind
 24 2010-12-10 00:18:10 <Diablo-D3> my miner works on nvidia now?
 25 2010-12-10 00:18:18 <KwukDuck> it[ a gtx 470
 26 2010-12-10 00:18:26 <Diablo-D3> what version of the nvidia drivers? I must know
 27 2010-12-10 00:18:27 <KwukDuck> works fine here... just slow
 28 2010-12-10 00:18:53 <KwukDuck> 263.06
 29 2010-12-10 00:19:00 <KwukDuck> dev driver
 30 2010-12-10 00:19:04 <Diablo-D3> hrrrrm
 31 2010-12-10 00:21:38 <[Noodles]> i'd say, that's ok for a gtx470, doesnt seem slow to me
 32 2010-12-10 00:21:57 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: but yes, nvidia hardware has very very very poor opencl performance
 33 2010-12-10 00:22:16 <ArtForz> theoretical peak according to my spreadsheet is 82Mh/s
 34 2010-12-10 00:22:16 <KwukDuck> ok i just tought it was realy slow since my friend has a comparable HD card that pulls over 300.000
 35 2010-12-10 00:22:34 <[Noodles]> gtx260 here running at 36.000 stock-core/45.000overclocked, 470 should double that
 36 2010-12-10 00:22:35 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: a 5870 does around 300
 37 2010-12-10 00:22:44 <KwukDuck> thats his card
 38 2010-12-10 00:22:57 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: 5870 is currently the fastest single gpu card for mining
 39 2010-12-10 00:23:01 <ArtForz> ati HD5870 should be ~ 310Mh/s peak
 40 2010-12-10 00:23:05 <[Noodles]> its an ATI card, that's why
 41 2010-12-10 00:23:18 <[Noodles]> nvidia sucks for bitcoin-mining
 42 2010-12-10 00:23:20 <KwukDuck> ok tnx :) didn't know it would difffer that much :)
 43 2010-12-10 00:24:34 <KwukDuck> would the cuda clientt go faster?
 44 2010-12-10 00:24:37 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: nvidia seems to be unable to hire chip designers who know anything
 45 2010-12-10 00:24:39 <Diablo-D3> nope
 46 2010-12-10 00:24:40 <Diablo-D3> it wouldnt
 47 2010-12-10 00:24:48 <[Noodles]> no, cuda is about the same
 48 2010-12-10 00:24:51 <Diablo-D3> on nvidia drivers, opencl and cuda are compiled by the same compiler
 49 2010-12-10 00:24:59 <Diablo-D3> in the end, you usually get pretty much the same shader
 50 2010-12-10 00:25:16 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: the theoretical maximum for your card is 82, I get 80
 51 2010-12-10 00:25:23 <Diablo-D3> you're not going to see the last 2 closed.
 52 2010-12-10 00:25:47 <KwukDuck> so i have another 8800GT nvidia, would a comparable ATI card give much more too?
 53 2010-12-10 00:26:15 <spacemagic> can you limit upload speed in bitcoin.conf?
 54 2010-12-10 00:27:10 <ArtForz> 8800GT = about 25Mh/s
 55 2010-12-10 00:27:32 <midnightmagic> KwukDuck: radeon crushes geforce, esp. the old 8800gt. I have a 9600GT here and it only does 14Mhashes/sec. I have a Radeon HD 5870 (measly $300 or less, now) and it does over 300M.
 56 2010-12-10 00:27:42 <ArtForz> HD4770 = about 72Mh/s
 57 2010-12-10 00:27:50 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: well, you could buy a 5770 or a 5850 and get a shitload of performance
 58 2010-12-10 00:27:51 <ArtForz> HD5750 about 110Mh/s
 59 2010-12-10 00:27:56 <theymos> spacemagic: No. It shouldn't use very much if you have port 8333 non-forwarded.
 60 2010-12-10 00:28:00 <ArtForz> HD5770 about 150Mh/s
 61 2010-12-10 00:28:08 <KwukDuck> interresting
 62 2010-12-10 00:28:13 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: or grab a 6870; 5850 mining speeds but 5870 3D speed
 63 2010-12-10 00:28:22 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: and its about as cheap as a 5850
 64 2010-12-10 00:28:26 <ArtForz> yep, 6870 = about 230Mh/s
 65 2010-12-10 00:28:49 <spacemagic> @theymos Ok, because my roommates were saying the internet slowed down while I was using it
 66 2010-12-10 00:28:54 <spacemagic> I'll have to check that
 67 2010-12-10 00:29:19 <KwukDuck> what would 4850 do?
 68 2010-12-10 00:29:34 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: 75, I own one
 69 2010-12-10 00:29:47 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: 4xxx are pretty shit at opencl
 70 2010-12-10 00:29:49 <midnightmagic> (actually I have four radeon hd 5870 in the same machine, and unfortunately due to heat issues I can't get a full 300M out of every card.. only the one on the very bottom.)
 71 2010-12-10 00:29:53 <KwukDuck> thats my friends old card i can probably get it for free xD
 72 2010-12-10 00:30:23 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: the best cards for performance per dollar/watt are 5850, 5970, 5870, 5770, 6850, 6870 in that order
 73 2010-12-10 00:30:31 <midnightmagic> I'd just like to thank ArtForz publically for pointing out that PCI-e risers do exist and can work. I think that might be my only solution (flexible pci-e extension ribbon)
 74 2010-12-10 00:30:35 <Diablo-D3> KwukDuck: nvidia and radeon 4xxx dont even rate on the list
 75 2010-12-10 00:31:09 <midnightmagic> probably better than the 8800gt :-)
 76 2010-12-10 00:31:12 <KwukDuck> i can get almost same khash on a free card then an expensive one, i'll bring that one back :)
 77 2010-12-10 00:35:57 <spacemagic> maybe my router is crap if the network is bogging with one version of instance running
 78 2010-12-10 00:36:16 <theymos> Are you still downloading blocks? How many connections do you have?
 79 2010-12-10 00:36:35 <spacemagic> 8 connections @ 2500khash
 80 2010-12-10 00:37:04 <spacemagic> not downloading blocks
 81 2010-12-10 00:37:11 <spacemagic> i've had it for a couple days
 82 2010-12-10 00:38:12 <ArtForz> btw, my last shipment of risers was 2" longer than the prev ones
 83 2010-12-10 00:38:20 <ArtForz> and one of them won't do 2.0 speeds
 84 2010-12-10 00:38:43 <theymos> That shouldn't use very much bandwidth at all. You might try running with -connect=ip to connect to a single reliable peer ( http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes ).
 85 2010-12-10 00:39:04 <ArtForz> old risers were 145mm, new ones are 190mm
 86 2010-12-10 00:40:31 <ArtForz> old = ~4" cable + 40mm PCB, new = ~6" cable + 40mm PCB
 87 2010-12-10 00:40:44 <ArtForz> I fucking ordered 4" ones
 88 2010-12-10 00:41:08 <midnightmagic> whoah, good info..
 89 2010-12-10 00:43:13 <theymos> midnightmagic: If you want to connect to more than one node for reliability (might be a good idea), you can run with '-maxconnections=2 -addnode=ip -addnode-ip -noirc'
 90 2010-12-10 00:43:54 <spacemagic> what is the purpose of confirming transactions?
 91 2010-12-10 00:44:03 <theymos> That was directed at spacemagic. You have unusually similar nicks...
 92 2010-12-10 00:44:14 <spacemagic> lol
 93 2010-12-10 00:45:00 <spacemagic> thanks, that's with the bitcoind precursor correct?
 94 2010-12-10 00:45:18 <theymos> spacemagic: A transaction with more confirmations is less likely to be reversed. 6 confirmations is almost impossible.
 95 2010-12-10 00:45:31 <theymos> spacemagic: bitcoind or bitcoin
 96 2010-12-10 00:46:05 <midnightmagic> ok
 97 2010-12-10 00:48:15 <spacemagic> I have 700 confirmations
 98 2010-12-10 00:48:22 <spacemagic> seems pointlessly large
 99 2010-12-10 00:48:29 <theymos> It grows forever.
100 2010-12-10 00:48:44 <spacemagic> alright
101 2010-12-10 00:51:29 <Diablo-D3> http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2010/12/batmen-by-the-pool.jpg
102 2010-12-10 00:51:30 <Diablo-D3> I lold
103 2010-12-10 00:56:13 <spacemagic> Ha! relaxing leather suits
104 2010-12-10 01:01:05 <kiba> elimination by mericeleess argumentation
105 2010-12-10 01:04:06 <Diablo-D3> "difficulty" : 12252.03471156,
106 2010-12-10 01:04:07 <Diablo-D3> ffff
107 2010-12-10 01:04:18 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc
108 2010-12-10 01:04:18 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
109 2010-12-10 01:04:20 <Diablo-D3> er
110 2010-12-10 01:04:23 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 75000
111 2010-12-10 01:04:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 53 minutes, and 47 seconds
112 2010-12-10 01:04:28 <Diablo-D3> god fucking damnit.
113 2010-12-10 01:09:37 <spacemagic> ouch...
114 2010-12-10 01:17:59 <spacemagic> noodles!
115 2010-12-10 01:18:09 <[Noodles]> hm?
116 2010-12-10 01:18:32 <spacemagic> Just a jovial entrance exclamation
117 2010-12-10 01:22:42 <spacemagic> what khash are you at?
118 2010-12-10 01:23:50 <[Noodles]> combined ~400M
119 2010-12-10 01:23:59 <ArtForz> "not enough"
120 2010-12-10 01:24:22 <[Noodles]> HD5850/HD5570 (+GTX260)
121 2010-12-10 01:24:57 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
122 2010-12-10 01:25:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96789 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1994 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11886.43492892
123 2010-12-10 01:26:00 <[Noodles]> if difficulty keeps rising by 50% AND price stays at 0.2, the ATI combo can run loss-less untill around Feb/Mar2011
124 2010-12-10 01:26:14 <ArtForz> yup
125 2010-12-10 01:26:38 <ArtForz> though I suspect we'll see levelling off quite a bit before that
126 2010-12-10 01:27:24 <[Noodles]> i was thinking about investing in another card or two, but i wont
127 2010-12-10 01:27:32 <[Noodles]> energy is too expensive around here
128 2010-12-10 01:27:54 <ArtForz> yeah, I'll stop buying new cards after adding this batch of 12 5970s
129 2010-12-10 01:28:00 <[Noodles]> lol
130 2010-12-10 01:28:21 <ArtForz> not to mention 5970s are back up to 410EUR incl. tax
131 2010-12-10 01:29:00 <ArtForz> got the last 12 for 380 incl. tax (so 320EUR w/o tax)
132 2010-12-10 01:29:30 <[Noodles]> i'll just put my money directly into bitcoins instead, as soon as mtgox excepts EUR-banks
133 2010-12-10 01:30:07 <[Noodles]> accepts of course
134 2010-12-10 01:30:16 <[Noodles]> should take a nap
135 2010-12-10 02:09:11 <spacemagic> wouldn't it make more sense to have bitcoin constantly distributing coins for the amount you contribute?
136 2010-12-10 02:09:32 <spacemagic> instead of on the offchance that your specific computer gets the block
137 2010-12-10 02:09:39 <theymos> You can join a pool if you want that.
138 2010-12-10 02:10:02 <spacemagic> i know, but as a currency it seems to leave a lot to chance
139 2010-12-10 02:10:05 <ArtForz> overall, imo... no
140 2010-12-10 02:10:25 <spacemagic> although.. maybe you are right.
141 2010-12-10 02:10:36 <ArtForz> the node that found a block contributed to the block chain
142 2010-12-10 02:11:34 <spacemagic> well, since I'm only contributing 2700khash i suppose I'm better off finding a pool
143 2010-12-10 02:11:40 <ArtForz> yep
144 2010-12-10 02:13:05 <spacemagic> the first pool I tried didn't include all the cmake files, so... anyone know of others?
145 2010-12-10 02:13:11 <spacemagic> that work
146 2010-12-10 02:29:33 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
147 2010-12-10 02:29:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96794 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1989 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes, and 29 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11644.63334155
148 2010-12-10 02:32:59 <spacemagic> anyone know what boost package had regex, filesystem, date_time etc?
149 2010-12-10 02:34:01 <doublec> boost-all-dev
150 2010-12-10 02:35:23 <doublec> spacemagic, which pool didn't include all the files?
151 2010-12-10 02:36:00 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 100000
152 2010-12-10 02:36:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 6 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes, and 20 seconds
153 2010-12-10 02:36:58 <spacemagic> i'm assuming the cmake files aren't pointing to the right place
154 2010-12-10 02:37:06 <spacemagic> because I have boost-all-dev
155 2010-12-10 02:37:27 <spacemagic> i'm on bluishcoder.co.nz
156 2010-12-10 02:39:25 <doublec> linux?
157 2010-12-10 02:39:42 <spacemagic> yes
158 2010-12-10 02:50:20 <spacemagic> ;;bc,calc 3000
159 2010-12-10 02:50:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 29 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 24 minutes, and 56 seconds
160 2010-12-10 02:50:25 <spacemagic> ha
161 2010-12-10 02:51:24 <ArtForz> thats... 0.246 btc/day
162 2010-12-10 02:51:54 <midnightmagic> 1/25 of a cent or so?
163 2010-12-10 02:51:58 <ArtForz> at current market prices about $0.05
164 2010-12-10 02:53:01 <midnightmagic> everybody I know is starting to plough in with their normal system CPU doing the mining.. i guess my machine has unrealistically raised their expectations somewhat..
165 2010-12-10 02:53:27 <midnightmagic> i don't think they quite understand the raw computing horsepower of the high-ish end radeon cards.
166 2010-12-10 02:53:50 <ArtForz> one 5970 = about 100 midrange CPUs
167 2010-12-10 02:54:09 <midnightmagic> the whole "hey at theoretical peak, my machine is 1/2 of #500 of the top500 supercomputers in the world list right now" doesn't really sink in, apparently.
168 2010-12-10 02:55:37 <midnightmagic> yeah, 2 base-10 orders of magnitude man..
169 2010-12-10 02:56:09 <ArtForz> for raw peak FP I'd make top100 ;)
170 2010-12-10 02:56:20 <midnightmagic> they always seem so bummed when i tell them, "it would take a couple hundred of those laptops to do the same thing.."
171 2010-12-10 02:56:27 <midnightmagic> you should apply!
172 2010-12-10 02:56:41 <ArtForz> honest linpack sucks for GPUs
173 2010-12-10 02:56:59 <ArtForz> way too much communication needed
174 2010-12-10 02:57:24 <midnightmagic> does amd do proper dma for radeon yet in the sdk?
175 2010-12-10 02:57:30 <ArtForz> nope
176 2010-12-10 02:57:34 <ArtForz> opencl still can't do DMA
177 2010-12-10 02:57:35 <midnightmagic> bah
178 2010-12-10 02:57:45 <ArtForz> CAL can, but who wants to write their kernel in IL?
179 2010-12-10 02:58:42 <midnightmagic> ah! it can? i was led to believe it was a driver limitation for GP computational cores..
180 2010-12-10 02:59:03 <ArtForz> nope
181 2010-12-10 02:59:55 <ArtForz> maybe SDK2.3 will fix that, but I'm not too optimistic
182 2010-12-10 03:00:10 <midnightmagic> i'd love to learn a lower-level, thanks for pointing me at cal/il
183 2010-12-10 03:00:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 30000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 weeks, 6 days, 7 hours, 14 minutes, and 29 seconds
184 2010-12-10 03:00:29 <Lysacor> ;;bc,calc 30000
185 2010-12-10 03:00:49 <ArtForz> you can get ATIs openCL runtime to dump kernel IL/shader ASM by setting a env var
186 2010-12-10 03:01:41 <yebyen> Hum
187 2010-12-10 03:02:31 <midnightmagic> oh hey, difficulty went up. :-)
188 2010-12-10 03:02:40 <yebyen> I guess i will still play the lotto
189 2010-12-10 03:02:48 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,calc 700000
190 2010-12-10 03:02:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 20 hours, 52 minutes, and 54 seconds
191 2010-12-10 03:03:32 <midnightmagic> i guess that's not too bad. wish i could engage the 3rd card without it going into thermal shutdown. stupid gigabyte motherboards anyway cramming them in so close. did they even test it?!
192 2010-12-10 03:03:43 <yebyen> So, datacenter owners can still get a free lunch
193 2010-12-10 03:06:07 <spacemagic> when i try to run bitcoinr executable it says cmd not found
194 2010-12-10 03:07:15 <doublec> ./cmake-bitcoinr/bitcoinr
195 2010-12-10 03:08:49 <ne0futur> or put the binary in the path
196 2010-12-10 03:09:30 <spacemagic> mmk. in usr/bin works too?
197 2010-12-10 03:10:06 <OneFixt> ;;bc,stats
198 2010-12-10 03:10:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96797 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1986 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 35 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 10797.36875051
199 2010-12-10 03:17:57 <spacemagic> if i start another instance of bitcoinr and put it on another one of my addresses, will it use my other cpu core?
200 2010-12-10 03:18:10 <kiba> yeah, I think so
201 2010-12-10 03:18:17 <kiba> I have two running instances
202 2010-12-10 03:18:46 <spacemagic> ok, perfect
203 2010-12-10 03:20:11 <doublec> Use the same address
204 2010-12-10 03:20:27 <kiba> hmm
205 2010-12-10 03:20:30 <doublec> there's no need to use seperate addresses per client
206 2010-12-10 03:21:02 <doublec> the server will sum the hash contributions of both clients and print out the portion of coins you'll get for the combined total
207 2010-12-10 03:21:08 <doublec> based on the address
208 2010-12-10 03:22:53 <jgarzik> doublec: how does the remote miner protocol differ from standard JSON-RPC getwork?  I would like to make cpuminer compatible.
209 2010-12-10 03:23:07 <doublec> jgarzik, I don't know
210 2010-12-10 03:26:45 <spacemagic> i have it running with 2 separate addresses atm, i'll do same address next time I pull them up fresh
211 2010-12-10 03:27:01 <spacemagic> i'm just happy i have it running now
212 2010-12-10 03:29:07 <maximi89> how can i obtain a bitcoin?
213 2010-12-10 03:29:28 <doublec> ,,freebitcoins
214 2010-12-10 03:29:29 <gribble> Error: "freebitcoins" is not a valid command.
215 2010-12-10 03:29:35 <doublec> I always get that wrong
216 2010-12-10 03:29:35 <jgarzik> maximi89: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
217 2010-12-10 03:29:54 <spacemagic> lol
218 2010-12-10 03:31:08 <maximi89> jgarzik: but i mean this use a P2P network, how we can convert a dollar to Bitcoins? and what are that "markets"? http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
219 2010-12-10 03:31:42 <jgarzik> maximi89: click on the links on that page, to go to the markets
220 2010-12-10 03:32:13 <jgarzik> maximi89: those markets are where you exchange bitcoins for another currency (or vice versa)
221 2010-12-10 03:32:15 <maximi89> jgarzik: but i need to be registered to get Bitcoins?
222 2010-12-10 03:32:50 <spacemagic> easy way to print your addresses to cmdline instead of opening gui?
223 2010-12-10 03:32:56 <jgarzik> maximi89: yes.  registration is free at mtgox and most other sites.  or you can join #bitcoin-otc, look at the order book and try to negotiate a OTC transaction.
224 2010-12-10 03:35:15 <maximi89> so, the markets are like a bank?
225 2010-12-10 03:35:38 <AAA_awright> Markets are like a market
226 2010-12-10 03:35:43 <AAA_awright> You trade things
227 2010-12-10 03:35:51 <AAA_awright> Dollars for bitcoins or yen or whatever
228 2010-12-10 03:37:47 <maximi89> and then i can convert the bitcoins in USD and viceversa right? using paypal to send or get the cash?
229 2010-12-10 03:41:34 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
230 2010-12-10 03:41:34 <nanotube> ;;learn freebitcoins as Get some free bitcoins to play with at https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
231 2010-12-10 03:42:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
232 2010-12-10 03:42:00 <nanotube> ;;alias freebitcoins faucet
233 2010-12-10 03:42:33 <nanotube> doublec: jgarzik: --^ there, factoid exists now. :)
234 2010-12-10 03:42:46 <doublec> nanotube, thanks :)
235 2010-12-10 03:46:34 <spacemagic> if I'm not contributing at the time the pool finds a block, do i miss out completely?
236 2010-12-10 03:47:25 <doublec> you get a share based on the hashes you've contributed
237 2010-12-10 03:48:00 <doublec> So it remembers what you contributed when you disconnected
238 2010-12-10 03:48:00 <spacemagic> ok, so that is why I should use the same Address
239 2010-12-10 03:48:04 <doublec> yes
240 2010-12-10 03:48:57 <spacemagic> doublec, priceless. for everything else there's mastercard.. oh wait...
241 2010-12-10 03:54:25 <nanotube> doublec: so the pool's back up i take it? :)
242 2010-12-10 03:54:40 <doublec> nanotube, yep
243 2010-12-10 03:54:42 <doublec> server died over night
244 2010-12-10 03:54:55 <nanotube> ah
245 2010-12-10 03:55:40 <spacemagic> server 173.255.205.10?
246 2010-12-10 03:56:45 <maximi89> nice my first half bitcoin
247 2010-12-10 03:57:30 <maximi89> when it receive a bitcoin it use lot of CPU
248 2010-12-10 03:57:33 <maximi89> 140%
249 2010-12-10 03:57:53 <nanotube> doublec: btw, if you come across any other frequently requested info that deserves a gribble factoids, please let me know. :)
250 2010-12-10 03:57:54 <spacemagic> .005 btc!
251 2010-12-10 03:58:13 <maximi89> right 0.05
252 2010-12-10 03:58:56 <doublec> nanotube, will do
253 2010-12-10 04:23:56 <DemeGeek> How many people here would frown upon a BTC bank?
254 2010-12-10 04:24:24 <kiba> no one
255 2010-12-10 04:24:35 <kiba> MtGox and mybitcoin are what we called banks
256 2010-12-10 04:24:52 <DemeGeek> I thought those were currency exchanges
257 2010-12-10 04:24:55 <DemeGeek> my bad
258 2010-12-10 04:25:07 <kiba> mtgox double as a bank in addition to currency exchange
259 2010-12-10 04:25:18 <doublec> mybitcoin is not a currency exchange
260 2010-12-10 04:26:51 <nanotube> DemeGeek: if your bank pays interest... you'd get an inflow of customers. :)
261 2010-12-10 04:27:43 <kiba> fractional reserve banking
262 2010-12-10 04:27:48 <DemeGeek> nanotube: I was thinking of a Interest Paying one when I thought of it, does mybitcoin not pay interest?
263 2010-12-10 04:27:51 <kiba> no it does
264 2010-12-10 04:27:58 <kiba> not
265 2010-12-10 04:28:01 <kiba> if it does, it means mybitcoin is probably a fractional bank
266 2010-12-10 04:29:17 <kiba> unless mybitcoin earn interests other way
267 2010-12-10 04:29:20 <kiba> like ads
268 2010-12-10 04:29:39 <DemeGeek> That also was what I was thinking.
269 2010-12-10 04:30:01 <nanotube> DemeGeek: no, none of the current services pay interest. in order to pay interest, you must be making money from somewhere. either loaning funds out, or fees, or something else.
270 2010-12-10 04:30:13 <MT`AwAy> fractional banks are something people using bitcoins want to avoid
271 2010-12-10 04:30:26 <kiba> right.
272 2010-12-10 04:30:32 <kiba> there will probably be a few of them anyway
273 2010-12-10 04:31:09 <MT`AwAy> all the bitcoins deposited on my wallet system are 100% backed by real bitcoins :D
274 2010-12-10 04:31:18 <nanotube> free market. :) assuming a fractional bank had a good reputation and solid disclosure policy... i would consider choosing it over a non-interest-paying bank.
275 2010-12-10 04:31:42 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: haha right. :)
276 2010-12-10 04:32:15 <MT`AwAy> althrough I'm thinking of something similar, a non fractional bank with interest
277 2010-12-10 04:32:22 <MT`AwAy> (interest would come from something else)
278 2010-12-10 04:33:18 <MT`AwAy> btw I'm looking for someone to do web design for me, I can pay in bitcoins :D
279 2010-12-10 04:33:41 <DemeGeek> How complex of a design?
280 2010-12-10 04:34:38 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so where would interest come from (if it's not a secret) ? )
281 2010-12-10 04:34:56 <DemeGeek> Is there any ad companies that pay in BTC?
282 2010-12-10 04:35:19 <nanotube> maybe, check bitcoin.org/trade
283 2010-12-10 04:35:51 <DemeGeek> bitads
284 2010-12-10 04:36:04 <DemeGeek> thanks for the link nano
285 2010-12-10 04:37:33 <MT`AwAy> [14:33:43] <DemeGeek> How complex of a design? <- I would prefer someone who can do JS and nice sleek designs :p
286 2010-12-10 04:37:34 <nanotube> DemeGeek: np :) though bitads seems to be down atm...
287 2010-12-10 04:37:47 <DemeGeek> I know, refreshing periodicly
288 2010-12-10 04:37:50 <MT`AwAy> [14:34:40] <nanotube> MT`AwAy: so where would interest come from (if it's not a secret) ? ) <- for now I prefer to keep it a secret, since it's so obvious and easy
289 2010-12-10 04:38:11 <nanotube> heh ic
290 2010-12-10 04:38:13 <MT`AwAy> DemeGeek: if you do ads for my web hosting service as an affiliate I can pay you in bitcoins
291 2010-12-10 04:38:30 <theymos> Percentage interest only works if you're actually using investor money for something.
292 2010-12-10 04:38:43 <kiba> BioMike is working up an advertising clearinghouse
293 2010-12-10 04:39:57 <DemeGeek> MT`AwAy: What you said probably makes sense but I didn't underdstand, sorry.
294 2010-12-10 04:43:42 <kiba> I am suprisied there's no bank trying to do fractional reserve
295 2010-12-10 04:44:19 <MT`AwAy> kiba: the market is too small for that
296 2010-12-10 04:44:20 <theymos> There were some HYIP scams.
297 2010-12-10 04:44:39 <kiba> and the only one left standing are full reserve banks
298 2010-12-10 04:44:50 <kiba> bitcoin bubble collapse
299 2010-12-10 04:44:58 <MT`AwAy> :p
300 2010-12-10 04:45:30 <kiba> why do fractional reserve banking happens anyway?
301 2010-12-10 04:45:38 <kiba> what make them so persistant?
302 2010-12-10 04:47:22 <kiba> wee
303 2010-12-10 04:47:24 <kiba> I want to know
304 2010-12-10 04:47:57 <spacemagic> is it possible that the $ it costs to power your cpu is actually more expensive than the BTC you get out of the cpu power?
305 2010-12-10 04:48:14 <kiba> yes
306 2010-12-10 04:48:21 <OneFixt> kiba: profit for the bankers, of course
307 2010-12-10 04:48:32 <spacemagic> so, what's the point?
308 2010-12-10 04:48:33 <theymos> spacemagic: It's likely if your electricity is not cheap/free.
309 2010-12-10 04:48:42 <spacemagic> electricity is not free
310 2010-12-10 04:48:42 <theymos> GPU miners mine profitably.
311 2010-12-10 04:48:43 <OneFixt> well, technically profit for the governments which give those banks charters
312 2010-12-10 04:49:06 <theymos> spacemagic: It is for some people. ArtForz gets free electricity in the winter where he lives.
313 2010-12-10 04:49:54 <spacemagic> well, if you're making your electricity with solar power or wind etc.. then yes it is free
314 2010-12-10 04:51:45 <spacemagic> Just trying to figure out the viability of the BTC as a currency
315 2010-12-10 04:52:42 <theymos> Generation is always profitable for someone. If no one is making a profit, then no one will generate and the difficulty will go down.
316 2010-12-10 04:53:29 <MT`AwAy> [14:45:40] <kiba> what make them so persistant? <- banks thinks the money you give them is theirs, and use it to make more money (or lose money)
317 2010-12-10 04:54:44 <spacemagic> meh, well, we will see won't we
318 2010-12-10 04:55:19 <MT`AwAy> kiba: all "normal" banks are like that
319 2010-12-10 04:55:39 <kiba> well bitcoin
320 2010-12-10 04:55:47 <nanotube> if you want a full-reserve bank, it's actually pretty easy. just stick your money in a safe-deposit box.
321 2010-12-10 04:56:14 <MT`AwAy> or under your mat
322 2010-12-10 04:56:18 <kiba> or stick it in your local wallet
323 2010-12-10 04:56:45 <nanotube> well, presumably if you use a bank at all, in a full-reserve framework, it is because you want to safeguard your money. because a bank is harder to rob than your mattress.
324 2010-12-10 05:03:02 <DemeGeek> I have 1 cent america in BTC!
325 2010-12-10 05:05:36 <kiba> hmm, no download after I posted my new revision of Haruka Nakamoto
326 2010-12-10 05:05:49 <kiba> don't feel like my fanbase is growing
327 2010-12-10 05:14:47 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: um
328 2010-12-10 05:14:53 <Diablo-D3> you cant stick cash in a safe depoist box
329 2010-12-10 05:15:06 <Diablo-D3> the government can and will confiscate it if they find out its there
330 2010-12-10 05:16:42 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: i doubt that.
331 2010-12-10 05:17:11 <nanotube> [citation needed] :)
332 2010-12-10 05:17:38 <MT`AwAy> anyway stacking cash is useless, it's just paper
333 2010-12-10 05:20:57 <nanotube> MT`AwAy: well, that's a separate issue. :) you could easily convert it into gold bars or something... insure them... stick in safe deposit box.
334 2010-12-10 05:21:16 <nanotube> or... just bury in the yard. :)
335 2010-12-10 05:21:30 <theymos> Can you insure things in safe deposit boxes? I know that FDIC doesn't cover them.
336 2010-12-10 05:22:39 <nanotube> fdic doesn't. but you can take out insurance on any property you own, separately.
337 2010-12-10 05:23:14 <theymos> I think I'm going to buy some silver next. It seems undervalued, and the supply is continually decreasing due to industrial use.
338 2010-12-10 05:23:16 <nanotube> that said... if you have insurance... you have no reason to hide it in the bank. if it gets stolen, hey, you have insurance. :)
339 2010-12-10 05:23:58 <MT`AwAy> nanotube: getting the insurance to pay can prove long and difficult
340 2010-12-10 05:25:01 <nanotube> yes, but better than not having insurance.
341 2010-12-10 05:25:27 <nanotube> theymos: mm well... what makes you think it is undervalued?
342 2010-12-10 05:28:15 <theymos> Its value has not been increasing at a rate like gold, even though the supply is being diminished in a way that gold is not.
343 2010-12-10 05:31:45 <kiba> once you add DNS registration, the market could really take off
344 2010-12-10 05:32:21 <theymos> I doubt it. Who's going to replace their DNS nameservers (or even run extra software) to use alternative DNS?
345 2010-12-10 05:37:17 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: actually, they have done it
346 2010-12-10 05:37:29 <Diablo-D3> theymos: no, you cant insure things in safe deposit boxes
347 2010-12-10 05:38:07 <theymos> Yeah; I suspected there was some law against it. There's a law against everything I would want to do...
348 2010-12-10 05:43:27 <ne0futur> for those able to read spanish : http://www.clarin.com/mundo/estados_unidos/hackers-escalan-Internet-defender-WikiLeaks_0_387561286.html
349 2010-12-10 05:49:00 <maximi89> the unique way to get free BTC it's generating it right?
350 2010-12-10 05:49:33 <MT`AwAy> [15:31:47] <kiba> once you add DNS registration, the market could really take off <- nobody cares about bitdns
351 2010-12-10 05:49:34 <maximi89> and generate a BTC how many time requires?
352 2010-12-10 05:49:47 <kiba> MT`AwAy: wtf?
353 2010-12-10 05:49:56 <MT`AwAy> :D
354 2010-12-10 05:51:23 <theymos> maximi89: Right. It's not free, though. It takes quite a bit of electricity and possibly hardware costs. Generating 50 BTC takes several weeks, at least -- often many months.
355 2010-12-10 05:52:42 <maximi89> theymos: what's the difference between bitcoin and the bitcoind?
356 2010-12-10 05:53:10 <theymos> bitcoind is the command-line version, without a GUI.
357 2010-12-10 05:55:23 <maximi89> nice :D
358 2010-12-10 05:55:25 <maximi89> thanks
359 2010-12-10 06:12:16 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 160000
360 2010-12-10 06:12:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 19 hours, 21 minutes, and 28 seconds
361 2010-12-10 06:17:58 <LobsterMan> maximi89
362 2010-12-10 06:18:02 <maximi89> LobsterMan:
363 2010-12-10 06:18:06 <LobsterMan> are you on windows or linux?
364 2010-12-10 06:18:10 <maximi89> Linux
365 2010-12-10 06:18:14 <maximi89> and you?
366 2010-12-10 06:18:18 <LobsterMan> windows
367 2010-12-10 06:18:27 <LobsterMan> was just going to suggest this if you are on windows
368 2010-12-10 06:18:34 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/random/how-to-get-started-using-your-gpu-to-mine-for-bitcoins-on-windows
369 2010-12-10 06:18:35 <LobsterMan> ;]
370 2010-12-10 06:18:43 <maximi89> nice
371 2010-12-10 06:20:18 <maximi89> in my case i can't do, because i'm using opensource drivers, so i don't have support for OpenCL/Cuda yet
372 2010-12-10 06:20:31 <LobsterMan> <_<
373 2010-12-10 06:21:23 <maximi89> the GPU lang
374 2010-12-10 06:21:24 <maximi89> ahaha
375 2010-12-10 06:23:00 <maximi89> going to suspend, hope bitcoin support this...
376 2010-12-10 06:26:01 <maximi89> ;;bc,calc 50
377 2010-12-10 06:26:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 33 years, 19 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes, and 7 seconds
378 2010-12-10 06:26:32 <necrodearia> nice!
379 2010-12-10 06:26:57 <maximi89> :O
380 2010-12-10 06:27:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1300 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 1 year, 14 weeks, 5 days, 12 hours, 2 minutes, and 9 seconds
381 2010-12-10 06:27:16 <maximi89> ;;bc,calc 1300
382 2010-12-10 06:30:08 <necrodearia> kiba, If it is not working then how can you work it out?
383 2010-12-10 06:30:44 <kiba> necrodearia: because I figure out and fixed it
384 2010-12-10 06:48:32 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
385 2010-12-10 06:48:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96821 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1962 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 11766.82189911
386 2010-12-10 06:48:51 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 104000
387 2010-12-10 06:48:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 104000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 5 days, 20 hours, 33 minutes, and 1 second
388 2010-12-10 06:48:57 <MT`AwAy> next difficulty estimate is lower than current difficulty :o
389 2010-12-10 06:49:01 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 40000
390 2010-12-10 06:49:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, 25 minutes, and 52 seconds
391 2010-12-10 06:49:10 <MT`AwAy> heh, more than two weeks now :p
392 2010-12-10 06:49:58 <LobsterMan> the estimate isn't really accurate at all for at least 36h or so
393 2010-12-10 06:50:52 <MT`AwAy> yeah
394 2010-12-10 06:54:33 <LobsterMan> hmm....i wonder if you could write a miner in vb
395 2010-12-10 06:54:34 <LobsterMan> :D
396 2010-12-10 06:56:00 <MT`AwAy> you wouldn't mine much
397 2010-12-10 07:26:21 <LobsterMan> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1218.snc4/157081_477702708725_774418725_5533206_2364735_n.jpg
398 2010-12-10 08:55:09 <MT`AwAy> mh
399 2010-12-10 09:00:02 <LobsterMan> http://www.newslobster.com/random/give-me-my-pizza-now
400 2010-12-10 09:16:05 <MT`AwAy> whose bitcoin client do not empty bitcoin addresses when sending payments? oO
401 2010-12-10 09:16:28 <MT`AwAy> and puts two "from" with the same addr?
402 2010-12-10 09:16:34 <MT`AwAy> this sounds fishy
403 2010-12-10 09:30:28 <pere> hm, the command line client accept 1234asbd as the coin value 1234.  this caused me to send to the wrong address, as I messed up the arguments and ended up with the new address as the value - which was accepted by the client.
404 2010-12-10 09:32:28 <pere> I believe it would be better if the command line client rejected '1234abcd' as a coin value.
405 2010-12-10 09:49:06 <Rhonda> Hey. I am behind a rather restrictive firewall here and would like to run the bitcoind on linux. Which ports to the outside does it need and is it possible to tunnel them? Did someone do that already?
406 2010-12-10 09:50:15 <dsg> Rhonda: You need to connect on port 8333 out. If you want to accept incoming connections you should forward the same port in, but it's not needed.
407 2010-12-10 09:51:53 <Rhonda> In strace I also saw it wants to connect to some IRC server?
408 2010-12-10 09:52:18 <Rhonda> So I only need to port-redirect 8333?
409 2010-12-10 09:54:52 <dsg> Rhonda: IRC is used for bootstrapping, but there's also other methods. You don't strictly need to connect o IRC
410 2010-12-10 09:55:29 <Rhonda> Then I leave this one blocked. :)
411 2010-12-10 09:55:42 <Rhonda> What is the prcpassword used for? client/server communication, only locally?
412 2010-12-10 09:57:51 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: yep, locally, for bitcoind
413 2010-12-10 09:58:10 <MT`AwAy> you can make rpc listen on all ips by adding rpcallowip=*
414 2010-12-10 09:58:42 <Rhonda> the 8333 is tcp, right?
415 2010-12-10 09:58:45 <MT`AwAy> yep
416 2010-12-10 09:59:01 <Rhonda> :~$ telnet 92.55.24.144 8333
417 2010-12-10 09:59:04 <Rhonda> is that expected?
418 2010-12-10 09:59:25 <MT`AwAy> I don't think so
419 2010-12-10 09:59:32 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=fallback_nodes <- if you don't use IRC, you can use the nodes listed there
420 2010-12-10 10:01:50 <Rhonda> oh, it does want to connect to 8333 not to one specific server but more-or-less randomly?
421 2010-12-10 10:02:01 <Rhonda> Hmm, now it gets tricky. How do I ssh tunnel that.  %-)
422 2010-12-10 10:02:38 <MT`AwAy> xD
423 2010-12-10 10:03:10 <MT`AwAy> use ssh -D and configure socks proxy in bitcoin.conf
424 2010-12-10 10:04:10 <Rhonda> Oh, never used the -D switch before. Can you guide me on that? What to put into bitcoin.conf?
425 2010-12-10 10:04:23 <Rhonda> Or can I just "tsocks" wrap bitcoind?
426 2010-12-10 10:05:03 <MT`AwAy> mh
427 2010-12-10 10:05:16 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin has native support for socks proxy, would be a shame to tsocks it
428 2010-12-10 10:05:35 <Rhonda> Right
429 2010-12-10 10:05:37 <MT`AwAy> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=running_bitcoin <- either with -proxy, or in the conf file with proxy=
430 2010-12-10 10:08:57 <Rhonda> $ ./bitcoind -proxy=127.0.0.1:8333
431 2010-12-10 10:09:31 <Rhonda> I started ssh -D 8333
432 2010-12-10 10:09:45 <Rhonda> And according to nestat it's listening on that port.
433 2010-12-10 10:10:53 <dsg> You want to use a different port for the proxy.
434 2010-12-10 10:16:06 <Rhonda> I see that it seems to connect in strace output now but it runs into "Ping timeout" responses
435 2010-12-10 10:18:29 <Rhonda> oh
436 2010-12-10 10:18:37 <Rhonda> getinfo seems to have got it started :)
437 2010-12-10 10:22:28 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 200000
438 2010-12-10 10:22:29 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes, and 10 seconds
439 2010-12-10 10:23:02 <MT`AwAy> gentoo ebuild bumped
440 2010-12-10 10:23:11 <pere> Grantt: is that statistic available from the command line client?
441 2010-12-10 10:23:49 <doublec> what statistic?
442 2010-12-10 10:24:21 <pere> doublec: how long it take to generate a block, on average.
443 2010-12-10 10:25:57 <MT`AwAy> pere: you need to compute it based on the current difficulty (you get that from getinfo for example) and your hash/sec rate
444 2010-12-10 10:26:01 <Rhonda> If I have a bitcoind running on one system and want to run another one on a different system, what things to I need to copy over to make them use the same account?
445 2010-12-10 10:26:09 <Rhonda> Actually, how to I figure out my account ID? :)
446 2010-12-10 10:26:12 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: you can't
447 2010-12-10 10:26:16 <MT`AwAy> there's no account id
448 2010-12-10 10:26:20 <pere> MT`AwAy: right.  hoped there was a command to get it out from the client, as it know both.
449 2010-12-10 10:26:22 <MT`AwAy> and anyway you don't want to use the "same account"
450 2010-12-10 10:26:57 <MT`AwAy> pere: the actual result is really random, and the duration provided by gribble is purely informative
451 2010-12-10 10:27:17 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: So I transfer the coins from one system to the other in the end?
452 2010-12-10 10:27:26 <pere> MT`AwAy: and?  should the client not provide purely informative information?
453 2010-12-10 10:28:04 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: for example
454 2010-12-10 10:28:32 <MT`AwAy> pere: more than informative it's relative, even if it says "one week" you could wait one month and get nothing
455 2010-12-10 10:34:49 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: Then how do I figure out my bitcoin address?
456 2010-12-10 10:35:24 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: with bitcoind, bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true
457 2010-12-10 10:36:55 <Rhonda> That only works when I also can listen on port 8333, right?
458 2010-12-10 10:37:05 <MT`AwAy> rpc uses another port
459 2010-12-10 10:37:06 <MT`AwAy> 8332
460 2010-12-10 10:38:28 <MT`AwAy> vi /etc/services
461 2010-12-10 10:38:57 <MT`AwAy> in theory you're supposed to register your ports if they are going to be widely used, but for bitcoin it's still too small :p
462 2010-12-10 10:39:35 <doublec> !google calc 1/(((2^256)-1)/((2^32)*12252.0347116)*200000*1000/(2^256))/(24*60*60)
463 2010-12-10 10:39:53 <doublec> ;;!google calc 1/(((2^256)-1)/((2^32)*12252.0347116)*200000*1000/(2^256))/(24*60*60)
464 2010-12-10 10:39:53 <gribble> Error: "!google" is not a valid command.
465 2010-12-10 10:39:58 <doublec> ;;google calc 1/(((2^256)-1)/((2^32)*12252.0347116)*200000*1000/(2^256))/(24*60*60)
466 2010-12-10 10:39:58 <gribble> (1 / (((((2^256) - 1) / ((2^32) * 12,252.0347116)) * 200,000 * 1,000) / (2^256))) / (24 * 60 * 60) = 3.04525975
467 2010-12-10 10:40:04 <doublec> success!
468 2010-12-10 10:40:18 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: I hope I'm not too annoying with my questions, just tell me when to stop please. Can get carried away too easily. :)
469 2010-12-10 10:40:28 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: it's fine :)
470 2010-12-10 10:40:40 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: (you can donate bitcoins to help people who help too btw)
471 2010-12-10 10:40:57 <Rhonda> So actually compiling bitcoind, starting it and bitcoind setgenerate true is enough to get started, right?
472 2010-12-10 10:41:10 <Rhonda> & after what amount of time could I expect to see something in getbalance?
473 2010-12-10 10:41:19 <doublec> it depends on your hash rate
474 2010-12-10 10:41:24 <doublec> ie. the power of your machine
475 2010-12-10 10:41:29 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: after a really long while
476 2010-12-10 10:41:34 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: I only can donate if I have something to donate. :P
477 2010-12-10 10:41:43 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 2000
478 2010-12-10 10:41:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 43 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds
479 2010-12-10 10:41:48 <doublec> that long for an average laptop
480 2010-12-10 10:41:56 <pere> Rhonda: https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/ will give you some. :)
481 2010-12-10 10:41:59 <MT`AwAy> ;;bc,calc 10000
482 2010-12-10 10:42:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 28 seconds
483 2010-12-10 10:42:02 <MT`AwAy> for a fast computer
484 2010-12-10 10:42:30 <Rhonda> pere: For that I would need to set up incoming ports, which I definitely don't want to do at this spot.
485 2010-12-10 10:42:43 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: no you don't :p
486 2010-12-10 10:42:49 <pere> Rhonda: worked for me without it.
487 2010-12-10 10:42:54 <Rhonda> Uh?
488 2010-12-10 10:43:00 <Rhonda> Where would it transfer it to?
489 2010-12-10 10:43:08 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: in the blocks you are downloading
490 2010-12-10 10:43:11 <pere> I'm behind NAT, and still it works.
491 2010-12-10 10:43:19 <Rhonda> & which brings me back to my firmer question: How.. oh, download. :)
492 2010-12-10 10:43:21 <doublec> You give it in address you want the coins to go it
493 2010-12-10 10:43:27 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: as long as you're connected to some peers you'll get your transactions
494 2010-12-10 10:43:30 <MT`AwAy> it's the thing with P2P
495 2010-12-10 10:43:32 <Rhonda> "then enter your Bitcoin Receiving address"
496 2010-12-10 10:43:56 <Rhonda> I have no receiving address. Or do they mean email address?
497 2010-12-10 10:44:19 <pere> Rhonda: bitcoind getnewaddress give you an address.
498 2010-12-10 10:44:46 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true
499 2010-12-10 10:44:50 <doublec> you'll need to have caught up with downloading the current block chain before you see it
500 2010-12-10 10:44:56 <doublec> bitcoind getblockcount
501 2010-12-10 10:45:07 <doublec> that'll tell you how much of the chain you've got so far
502 2010-12-10 10:45:10 <Rhonda> pere: That gives me a new address each time. Couldn't I abuse the service through that?
503 2010-12-10 10:45:22 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: your addresses only exist locally
504 2010-12-10 10:45:22 <pere> Rhonda: sure. :)
505 2010-12-10 10:46:01 <pere> Rhonda: you can get one free transaction per IP address, it seems.
506 2010-12-10 10:46:53 <MT`AwAy> pere: freebitcoins also put cookies
507 2010-12-10 10:47:01 <Rhonda> pere: that site is ipv6 enabled. go figure
508 2010-12-10 10:47:10 <pere> MT`AwAy: right.
509 2010-12-10 10:47:18 <MT`AwAy> and there's a rate limit too I think
510 2010-12-10 10:47:23 <pere> Rhonda: I figure most people are trustworthy. :)
511 2010-12-10 10:47:42 <MT`AwAy> pere: maybe not
512 2010-12-10 10:47:45 <Rhonda> pere: Right. That's why we don't receive any spam mails. :)
513 2010-12-10 10:48:14 <Rhonda> pere: I think you confuse trustworthy gullible. :)
514 2010-12-10 10:48:29 <pere> Rhonda: because most people are trustworthy?  I thought it was because there are a few rotten apples. :)
515 2010-12-10 10:49:28 <Rhonda> *sigh*
516 2010-12-10 10:49:43 <Rhonda> once entered the wrong data into the captcha it stumbles into the rate limit exceeded
517 2010-12-10 10:49:57 <Rhonda> so no free cookies for me because I failed to give the address right ahead. %-/
518 2010-12-10 10:50:50 <pere> is https://www.bitcoinmarket.com/ still operational?  No transactions listed on http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/ and not possible to register as a user.
519 2010-12-10 10:50:55 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: gimme your bitcoin addr
520 2010-12-10 10:51:36 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: 1DyP4nYGv6SGVkveUQgoytv8CVoY6BisrW is the one that has at least "Your Address" in account and label part :)
521 2010-12-10 10:52:01 <MT`AwAy> 417d28c2c9b8419db3df28faacdae77c036e271122f917ccb8ea41da78e9176f
522 2010-12-10 10:52:09 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: you just got some bitcoins ;)
523 2010-12-10 10:52:42 <MT`AwAy> wait a few blocks for it to be confirmed
524 2010-12-10 10:52:43 <MT`AwAy> :)
525 2010-12-10 10:53:23 <MT`AwAy> (one block every ~10 minutes)
526 2010-12-10 10:53:27 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/ <- latest blocks
527 2010-12-10 10:53:42 <Rhonda> Can I somehow change the account and label names?
528 2010-12-10 10:53:52 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: yes, you can
529 2010-12-10 10:54:09 <MT`AwAy> (I think)
530 2010-12-10 10:54:16 <Rhonda> ah, through setaccount
531 2010-12-10 10:54:45 <MT`AwAy> :)
532 2010-12-10 10:58:53 <pere> is there a sensible way to use bitcoin as micropayment for reading articles.  in such setting, it is not acceptable to wait 10 minutes to see if the payment was valid.
533 2010-12-10 10:59:17 <MT`AwAy> pere: only if you don't care if transactions are really valid
534 2010-12-10 10:59:24 <MT`AwAy> for reading articles it shouldn't be much of a problem
535 2010-12-10 10:59:29 <MT`AwAy> then you can accept unconfirmed transactions :)
536 2010-12-10 10:59:33 <Rhonda> Hmm, if 10 transactions of a block result in 2.668 kb size, does that scale in the end when the system gets widely accepted?
537 2010-12-10 10:59:45 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: we'll think about it next year
538 2010-12-10 11:00:34 <MT`AwAy> mh
539 2010-12-10 11:00:38 <MT`AwAy> more than 10 minutes since last block
540 2010-12-10 11:00:47 <MT`AwAy> at 12k difficulty things are less smooth, figures
541 2010-12-10 11:02:04 <Rhonda> Can the generation part work completely detached, without network access? For a few days at least?
542 2010-12-10 11:02:14 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: no
543 2010-12-10 11:02:27 <MT`AwAy> generation is a lottery, and fully random
544 2010-12-10 11:02:43 <Rhonda> ah
545 2010-12-10 11:02:59 <MT`AwAy> there's just a tuning value called "difficulty" to avoid things from going too fast
546 2010-12-10 11:03:00 <bd_> Well, you can _run_ it, but you need to have the latest block when generating, so in about ten minutes when the next block comes out, your work becomes useless unless you get the new latest block
547 2010-12-10 11:03:06 <xelister> 12/10/10 04:00 generated 50.00
548 2010-12-10 11:03:07 <xelister> ERROR: BitcoinMiner : generated block is stale
549 2010-12-10 11:03:09 <xelister> in debug log
550 2010-12-10 11:03:24 <xelister> so did my block won or not, what happened here
551 2010-12-10 11:03:51 <MT`AwAy> xelister: someone else got the block at the same time as you maybe?
552 2010-12-10 11:04:08 <MT`AwAy> I don't know this error but that's the kind of thing it could mean
553 2010-12-10 11:04:10 <bd_> or a bug in the miner program
554 2010-12-10 11:04:42 <MT`AwAy> likely too
555 2010-12-10 11:06:04 <xelister> http://pastebin.ca/2015504
556 2010-12-10 11:06:31 <xelister> the generated slution was: nonce=218557847 G=45549 H=0
557 2010-12-10 11:06:33 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: anyway at block 96847 you'll have some coins
558 2010-12-10 11:06:46 <xelister> and hash < target... so all looks ok I guess
559 2010-12-10 11:07:09 <xelister> could it mean networking problem that bitcoind was unable to pass solution to network?
560 2010-12-10 11:07:22 <MT`AwAy> xelister: could mean someone else got the hash a few seconds before you
561 2010-12-10 11:07:37 <xelister> and how to see in blockexplorer is mine block above used or not
562 2010-12-10 11:07:58 <MT`AwAy> xelister: just look if you got +50 btc or not
563 2010-12-10 11:08:02 <doublec> It might be longer if Rhonda hasn't got the complete block chain yet
564 2010-12-10 11:08:04 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: "too small (must be 6+)" from the blockexplorer :)
565 2010-12-10 11:08:22 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: what?
566 2010-12-10 11:08:52 <doublec> Rhonda, you can see it immediately with: bitcoind getreceivedbyaddress 1DyP4nYGv6SGVkveUQgoytv8CVoY6BisrW 0
567 2010-12-10 11:09:01 <xelister> MT`AwAy: it will take 24 hours
568 2010-12-10 11:09:08 <xelister> 20
569 2010-12-10 11:09:10 <Rhonda> Oh. i searched for 86847 in the blockexplorer form, now I figured what you meant. :)
570 2010-12-10 11:09:39 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: block 86847 hasn't been solved yet
571 2010-12-10 11:09:48 <Rhonda> Yes, found out now. :)
572 2010-12-10 11:10:01 <xelister> nope, I dont have any such (maturing) 59 btc :/
573 2010-12-10 11:10:07 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: btw bitcoind getinfo shows which value for "blocks" for you?
574 2010-12-10 11:10:16 <MT`AwAy> xelister: so someone else was faster than you
575 2010-12-10 11:10:24 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: 90107
576 2010-12-10 11:10:44 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: ok so you don't have the full blockchain yet
577 2010-12-10 11:10:49 <MT`AwAy> so you're not generating either :)
578 2010-12-10 11:10:52 <MT`AwAy> need to wait a bit more :p
579 2010-12-10 11:10:54 <Rhonda> How big is it?
580 2010-12-10 11:11:03 <MT`AwAy> 96846 right now
581 2010-12-10 11:11:05 <MT`AwAy> soon 96847
582 2010-12-10 11:11:16 <MT`AwAy> every 10 minutes or so it does +1
583 2010-12-10 11:11:22 <Rhonda> Oh, feeling silly now for that question.  %-)
584 2010-12-10 11:11:25 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/ <- you have block numbers + timestamp there
585 2010-12-10 11:13:28 <MT`AwAy> ok gpu miners, wtf are you doing? xD
586 2010-12-10 11:13:36 <MT`AwAy> where's the next block? XD
587 2010-12-10 11:13:48 <Rhonda> Oh. I think I figure now: Each new block is a.) the transction of the generation amount to the lucky person, and b.) contains all other transactions that did happen since the last block over the network?
588 2010-12-10 11:14:07 <pere> is it possible to do traffic analysis on bitcoin transactions to see how money flow in the network of bitcoin users?
589 2010-12-10 11:14:16 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: yep
590 2010-12-10 11:14:26 <MT`AwAy> pere: it's already listed on bitcoinwatch.com
591 2010-12-10 11:14:27 <Rhonda> o/
592 2010-12-10 11:14:54 <MT`AwAy> pere: and you don't need to analyze traffic for that, just look at blocks
593 2010-12-10 11:15:57 <pere> MT`AwAy: traffic analysis is to get more information out of it, not to just look at transactions.
594 2010-12-10 11:16:09 <MT`AwAy> pere: you'll get the same infos
595 2010-12-10 11:16:21 <pere> did anyone try to graph and visualize transactions?
596 2010-12-10 11:16:36 <MT`AwAy> pere: what do you want to see? :D
597 2010-12-10 11:16:38 <Rhonda> pere: Do you need more like which is available on http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000002fb82a487effbe89891d53d94e07c475c90cdc76ffdd506825c7e and then tracking back through the "Previous block" links?
598 2010-12-10 11:17:07 <pere> MT`AwAy: for example, how users are clustered together by transactions.
599 2010-12-10 11:17:19 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: when block 96847 is out you'll see your transaction with http://blockexplorer.com/tx/417d28c2c9b8419db3df28faacdae77c036e271122f917ccb8ea41da78e9176f
600 2010-12-10 11:17:27 <MT`AwAy> pere: you don't see "users"
601 2010-12-10 11:17:55 <Rhonda> MT`AwAy: You know the hash already for it? how come?
602 2010-12-10 11:17:57 <MT`AwAy> pere: each user has many bitcoin addresses, and you can't know which addresses are owned by the same user
603 2010-12-10 11:18:01 <pere> MT`AwAy: not directly, perhaps, but I suspect they can be spotted using patters.
604 2010-12-10 11:18:04 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: because I made the transaction
605 2010-12-10 11:18:17 <MT`AwAy> pere: wouldn't be easy
606 2010-12-10 11:18:31 <Rhonda> oh, right
607 2010-12-10 11:18:36 <MT`AwAy> pere: if you want to develop that, go on, bitcoin is still young :)
608 2010-12-10 11:18:49 <pere> which bring me back to my original question on traffic analysis and visualization. :)
609 2010-12-10 11:19:08 <MT`AwAy> pere: you won't have more infos via traffic analysis than from the blocks
610 2010-12-10 11:19:23 <MT`AwAy> transactions are stored as is in the blocks, they are exactly the same as what was received
611 2010-12-10 11:20:08 <doublec> an enormous .dot visualisatin of incoming and outgoings for all addresses would be interesting
612 2010-12-10 11:20:13 <Rhonda> pere: Given that people can do a "getnewaddress" for every single transaction they plan it might be not really possible.
613 2010-12-10 11:20:19 <doublec> to see if there's a few 'big' volume addresses that are the eventual recipients
614 2010-12-10 11:20:25 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: not only they can, but it's recommanded
615 2010-12-10 11:20:26 <doublec> probably  a mtgox or mybitcoin account
616 2010-12-10 11:20:40 <MT`AwAy> doublec: mtgox and mybitcoin have dozens of addresses
617 2010-12-10 11:21:00 <MT`AwAy> the only "spots" you may see is if someone sends a big amount of bitcoins to a single addr
618 2010-12-10 11:21:05 <doublec> MT`AwAy, it would show though if there is an address that gets the results of transfers to those addresses
619 2010-12-10 11:21:13 <MT`AwAy> oh
620 2010-12-10 11:21:16 <MT`AwAy> block solved
621 2010-12-10 11:21:28 <MT`AwAy> now need to wait for blockexplorer to be updated
622 2010-12-10 11:21:38 <MT`AwAy> [21:21:06] <doublec> MT`AwAy, it would show though if there is an address that gets the results of transfers to those addresses <- ?
623 2010-12-10 11:22:02 <MT`AwAy> each transfer to mtgox is done to a different addr
624 2010-12-10 11:22:10 <MT`AwAy> when you want to add funds to mtgox you get an unique addr
625 2010-12-10 11:22:44 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000a9c25f6d614a15b5b150262aacacaa9cca328852090869020836 <- you can see your address
626 2010-12-10 11:23:08 <MT`AwAy> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/417d28c2c9b8419db3df28faacdae77c036e271122f917ccb8ea41da78e9176f <- the transaction
627 2010-12-10 11:24:16 <Rhonda> "no such transaction"
628 2010-12-10 11:24:22 <MT`AwAy> Rhonda: ctrl+shift+R
629 2010-12-10 11:24:30 <MT`AwAy> (you need to force refresh cache)
630 2010-12-10 11:24:46 <Rhonda> right, thought I did before stating so. Strange
631 2010-12-10 11:25:02 <MT`AwAy> you see