1 2010-12-11 00:00:04 <ArtForz> right now the 5-deep adder chain for A limits my max clock pretty severely
  2 2010-12-11 00:02:11 <brocktice> xelister: thanks! got it
  3 2010-12-11 00:02:16 <brocktice> xelister: didn't realize it was you
  4 2010-12-11 00:02:32 <brocktice> Thanks for paying, but didn't you say 50?
  5 2010-12-11 00:03:08 <ArtForz> no, 50 erm 30
  6 2010-12-11 00:03:15 <brocktice> oh
  7 2010-12-11 00:03:29 <brocktice> ah yes I see the correction
  8 2010-12-11 00:03:31 <brocktice> ok,
  9 2010-12-11 00:03:33 <brocktice> well, thanks :)
 10 2010-12-11 00:07:49 <midnightmagic> oh hey.. lookit that, looks like testnet co-exists with the main bitcoin conf dirs..
 11 2010-12-11 00:08:36 <ArtForz> testnet uses main bitcoin.conf, puts data by default in datadir/testnet/
 12 2010-12-11 00:16:14 <tcatm> Damn floats :)
 13 2010-12-11 00:23:44 <xelister> brocktice: :)
 14 2010-12-11 00:24:33 <midnightmagic> holy smokes, look at that.. once a minute per thread..
 15 2010-12-11 00:28:53 <tcatm> necrodearia: ping?
 16 2010-12-11 00:31:27 <tcatm> market data as json: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/markets.json
 17 2010-12-11 00:34:01 <Kiba> so today is ada lovelace's birthday
 18 2010-12-11 00:37:31 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
 19 2010-12-11 00:37:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 96931 | Current Difficulty: 12252.03471156 | Next Difficulty At Block: 98783 | Next Difficulty In: 1852 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 37 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12373.74389941
 20 2010-12-11 00:39:38 <necrodearia> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/213230/could_the_wikileaks_scandal_lead_to_new_virtual_currency.html
 21 2010-12-11 00:40:07 <ArtForz> oi
 22 2010-12-11 00:42:18 <necrodearia> tcatm, ping
 23 2010-12-11 00:42:54 <tcatm> necrodearia: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/markets.json
 24 2010-12-11 00:43:17 <necrodearia> tcatm, nice, and thanks!
 25 2010-12-11 00:43:42 <tcatm> If you use it on a website please add a link to bitcoincharts.
 26 2010-12-11 00:45:40 <necrodearia> tcatm, Another idea I had that I thought would be interesting was to overlay the market prices : date chart/graph with block count or total network khash/sec
 27 2010-12-11 00:48:03 <tcatm> necrodearia: Yep. Many people are asking for such charts. I'm still not sure if it would show any meaningful information and could easily be misinterpreted.
 28 2010-12-11 00:51:00 <andrew12_> Now that I'm using a client less likely to die
 29 2010-12-11 00:51:12 <necrodearia> Well, one thing I was considering was the value of bitcoin and the amount of processing power in the network.
 30 2010-12-11 00:51:40 <necrodearia> I believe they aren't related and have no effect on one another, but it may be interesting to see them in comparison
 31 2010-12-11 00:52:04 <ArtForz> they sure are related, but probably in a non-useful way
 32 2010-12-11 00:52:12 <andrew12_> Lalalalalalalalala
 33 2010-12-11 00:52:34 <tcatm> necrodearia: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2011.0 some graphs I made to see if there's any significant information
 34 2010-12-11 00:52:55 <necrodearia> mm, interesting
 35 2010-12-11 00:53:56 <ArtForz> I'd expect difficulty to more-or-less follow value of bitcoins
 36 2010-12-11 00:54:31 <Granttt> isn't difficulty == rl cost of mining (in relation to gold price)
 37 2010-12-11 00:54:44 <andrew12_> It'd be interesting to set up some sort of distributed network for doing distributed computing (i.e. running an enormous task like rendering a high quality image of a minecraft world :p)
 38 2010-12-11 00:54:46 <ArtForz> right now we're still in a massive increase in difficulty due to GPU mining drastically increasing hash/W
 39 2010-12-11 00:54:50 <tcatm> Both price and difficulty probably follow an underlying factor. Maybe it's the size of userbase?
 40 2010-12-11 00:55:03 <ArtForz> that too
 41 2010-12-11 00:55:49 <andrew12_> Does anyone in here have my bitcoin address? I'm not at home right now but I wanted to try something
 42 2010-12-11 00:56:18 <andrew12_> (Home being where my client is w/ that address)
 43 2010-12-11 00:57:16 <tcatm> Granttt: Nope. There are enough bitcoins in the markets.
 44 2010-12-11 00:57:25 <Granttt> the one difficulty that is off the charts is the impossibility for some people to transfer $$ >> mtgox
 45 2010-12-11 00:57:46 <tcatm> $$ >> mtgox works just fine
 46 2010-12-11 00:58:17 <andrew12_> So... are blocks always going to be generated? Like, is there ever going to be a block limit?
 47 2010-12-11 00:58:30 <tcatm> andrew12_: There's no limit.
 48 2010-12-11 00:59:06 <tcatm> A constant generation of blocks is important for bitcoin to work reliable.
 49 2010-12-11 00:59:08 <Grantttt> tcatm: any suggestions, i have ~2500eur @ virwox/moneybookers or 800,000 L$ (in second life), i want that 2500usd >> mtgox
 50 2010-12-11 00:59:41 <andrew12_> So in like 10 years (if bitcoin lasts that long) there'll be like 20k blocks? Heh
 51 2010-12-11 01:00:43 <tcatm> moneybookers and L$ are even more exotic than LR :)
 52 2010-12-11 01:01:08 <Grantttt> moneybookers is crap, but L$ has no chargebacks which is pretty cool
 53 2010-12-11 01:01:25 <andrew12_> Nobody has my bitcoin address?
 54 2010-12-11 01:01:27 <xelister> andrew12_: yeah sure I have it
 55 2010-12-11 01:01:34 <xelister> andrew12_: let me just generet.. uh.. find it
 56 2010-12-11 01:01:40 <andrew12_> xelister: lol
 57 2010-12-11 01:02:37 <andrew12_> I tried looking through the logs but I kinda got lazy and stuff
 58 2010-12-11 01:02:55 <andrew12_> If they were text logs instead of html i could write a quick script
 59 2010-12-11 01:03:37 <tcatm> Grantttt: Can't you sell them for USD and then convert to LRUSD?
 60 2010-12-11 01:04:09 <andrew12_> How is LRUSD different from USD?
 61 2010-12-11 01:06:57 <Grantttt> yea, its the LR middleman i find "annoying"
 62 2010-12-11 01:09:52 <Keefe> Grantttt: i might be interested in trading MTG$ for your L$. pm me
 63 2010-12-11 01:14:15 <andrew12_> Hello again
 64 2010-12-11 01:14:51 <andrew12_> xelister: find it yet?
 65 2010-12-11 01:16:41 <xelister> andrew12_: no... I dont have it..
 66 2010-12-11 01:16:46 <andrew12_> Aww.
 67 2010-12-11 01:17:09 <andrew12_> Actually I think I might have it
 68 2010-12-11 01:17:55 <andrew12_> Indeed I do!
 69 2010-12-11 01:18:01 <andrew12_> Thank you for your patronage.
 70 2010-12-11 01:21:54 <Zarutian> http://seekingalpha.com/article/213546-conspiracy-theory-11-red-money <- anyone heard of this?
 71 2010-12-11 01:23:53 <Kiba> of course not!
 72 2010-12-11 01:28:37 <Grantttt> that the government has less accurate estimate over its money than we ? yes
 73 2010-12-11 01:30:40 <Kiba> we know exactly how many bitcoins are actually circulated
 74 2010-12-11 01:30:45 <Kiba> how many there will EVER be
 75 2010-12-11 01:30:49 <Kiba> ain't that awesome?
 76 2010-12-11 01:31:11 <Kiba> we know more shit more accurately than the government central planners
 77 2010-12-11 01:33:44 <doublec> You know how many have been generated - you don't know how may are 'lost' due to deleted wallets, etc
 78 2010-12-11 01:34:14 <doublec> ;;bc,calc 205000
 79 2010-12-11 01:34:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 205000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 2 days, 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds
 80 2010-12-11 01:35:19 <Keefe> lost btc is effectively like someone holding btc and offering to sell only for an infinitely high price
 81 2010-12-11 01:37:08 <Grantttt> lost btc is not a bad thing at all, since the issuer doesn't have to pay interest on all outstanding money :)
 82 2010-12-11 01:43:16 <Zarutian> ;bc,calc 9000000000000
 83 2010-12-11 01:43:31 <Diablo-D3> huh
 84 2010-12-11 01:43:36 <Diablo-D3> the sha3 finalists are out
 85 2010-12-11 01:43:41 <Diablo-D3> http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/12/11/0028226/SHA-3-Finalist-Candidates-Known?from=rss
 86 2010-12-11 01:43:59 <ArtForz> meh, thats not OVER 9000 Ghps
 87 2010-12-11 01:44:17 <ArtForz> meme fail
 88 2010-12-11 01:45:32 <Diablo-D3> yes, you need 9001.
 89 2010-12-11 01:46:39 <Kiba> wee
 90 2010-12-11 01:46:44 <Kiba> is my art career fuzzing out?
 91 2010-12-11 01:57:27 <tcatm> Shazam (app to identify music) is creepy. I had it listening to an outro that was only three chords and it detected the song.
 92 2010-12-11 01:58:24 <ArtForz> confirmation bias is biased
 93 2010-12-11 01:59:07 <necrodearia> "is there a way to even test which hardware is best for generating bitcoins?" - Chris Angelini -- Any responses to this appreciated and I will write a followup email to him.
 94 2010-12-11 01:59:24 <Kiba> see how many hashrate itp roduce?
 95 2010-12-11 01:59:55 <ArtForz> a way to test? yes. run a generator, see how fast it goes.
 96 2010-12-11 02:00:58 <ArtForz> if you have a bunch of similar hardware, you can extrapolate from known data points
 97 2010-12-11 02:01:52 <ArtForz> as it stands, nothing beats ATI 5xxx on hashes/W
 98 2010-12-11 02:02:16 <necrodearia> ArtForz, In your experiences, what would you consider the approximate minimum and maximum ranges possible for generating bitcoins using official client?
 99 2010-12-11 02:02:27 <ArtForz> on CPU?
100 2010-12-11 02:02:27 <necrodearia> Maybe 20khash - 1.5mhash?
101 2010-12-11 02:02:36 <necrodearia> yep, and perhaps also separately for gpu
102 2010-12-11 02:02:55 <ArtForz> iirc 6-core phenomIIs can get up to 16Mh/s using 4way
103 2010-12-11 02:03:01 <necrodearia> ooh
104 2010-12-11 02:03:31 <ArtForz> lowest possible hashrate... LOW
105 2010-12-11 02:04:23 <ArtForz> afair theres a "post your CPU and hashrate" thread on forums
106 2010-12-11 02:04:35 <tcatm> 300khash/s might be a reasonable lower end
107 2010-12-11 02:04:53 <ArtForz> within a CPU arch hashrate should scale nicely with clock
108 2010-12-11 02:05:17 <ArtForz> and usually also with #cores
109 2010-12-11 02:05:45 <ArtForz> so a 3GHz 4-core AthlonII should be about 33% faster than a 3GHz 3-core AthlonII
110 2010-12-11 02:06:10 <Diablo-D3> 33%? no
111 2010-12-11 02:06:14 <Diablo-D3> wait
112 2010-12-11 02:06:16 <Diablo-D3> yes
113 2010-12-11 02:06:17 <ArtForz> yes
114 2010-12-11 02:06:18 <Diablo-D3> no
115 2010-12-11 02:06:21 <Diablo-D3> fucking math!
116 2010-12-11 02:06:25 <Diablo-D3> yeah, its four thirds
117 2010-12-11 02:06:26 <ArtForz> X4 = 133% of X3, X3 = 75% of X4
118 2010-12-11 02:06:31 <Diablo-D3> so its 33% faster
119 2010-12-11 02:06:38 <ArtForz> yep
120 2010-12-11 02:07:50 <ArtForz> real-world datapoints for ATI 5xxx using diablos miner: HD5770 153Mh/s, HD5970 530Mh/s
121 2010-12-11 02:08:16 <ArtForz> my private miner is about 2% faster
122 2010-12-11 02:08:56 <Diablo-D3> whats yours do that mine doesnt?
123 2010-12-11 02:09:12 <ArtForz> I loop over nonce in kernel
124 2010-12-11 02:09:25 <xelister> I have angel-miner (fork of diablos) at 533MH/s actually. even when using a bit of desktop
125 2010-12-11 02:09:31 <ArtForz> doing 1024 nonces/workitem
126 2010-12-11 02:09:45 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hrm, I cant replicate that on 4xxx
127 2010-12-11 02:10:00 <ArtForz> so?
128 2010-12-11 02:10:07 <Diablo-D3> so I cant test if its working :<
129 2010-12-11 02:10:23 <ArtForz> on 5xxx loop wastes a lot less cycles than 4xxx
130 2010-12-11 02:10:47 <xelister> btw, Diablo-D3 in your's, each nonce has first rounds calculated in CPU, and the rest in CL?
131 2010-12-11 02:11:00 <Diablo-D3> first three and last three
132 2010-12-11 02:11:09 <xelister> hm, why not do that also in gpu?
133 2010-12-11 02:11:15 <ArtForz> first three are precalced, last 3 are useless
134 2010-12-11 02:11:15 <Diablo-D3> xelister: uh?
135 2010-12-11 02:11:22 <Diablo-D3> yeah what art said
136 2010-12-11 02:11:27 <xelister> precalced?
137 2010-12-11 02:11:33 <xelister> they are same for each nonce?
138 2010-12-11 02:11:38 <Diablo-D3> yes
139 2010-12-11 02:11:39 <ArtForz> you do the first 3 rounds once per getwork
140 2010-12-11 02:11:51 <ArtForz> = once every 5 seconds
141 2010-12-11 02:11:51 <xelister> ok.. and why not loop over nonces in gpu?
142 2010-12-11 02:12:15 <ArtForz> because it's slower on 4xxx, and diablo develops on a 4850 :P
143 2010-12-11 02:12:16 <Diablo-D3> art does
144 2010-12-11 02:12:29 <Diablo-D3> the only reason I havent added it is because I cant test it
145 2010-12-11 02:12:31 <xelister> wonder why it's slower
146 2010-12-11 02:12:33 <ArtForz> if you want him to optimize for 5xxx, donate him a 5770 or something
147 2010-12-11 02:12:40 <xelister> yeah right here, I get 10
148 2010-12-11 02:12:49 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you have a 5770 you dont want anymore, right?
149 2010-12-11 02:13:03 <ArtForz> already sold to my gaming buddies
150 2010-12-11 02:13:24 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I have a 5970 I dont want anymore lol
151 2010-12-11 02:13:39 <xelister> ArtForz: what is market price for used 5770, 5970 ?
152 2010-12-11 02:14:09 <ArtForz> I got 90EUR for my 512MB 5770
153 2010-12-11 02:14:30 <ArtForz> 5970s are... weird
154 2010-12-11 02:14:38 <xelister> weird?
155 2010-12-11 02:14:49 <Diablo-D3> I mean, why do I bother developing this thing
156 2010-12-11 02:14:51 <ArtForz> new they dropped to 380EUR incl. tax, back up to 420
157 2010-12-11 02:14:53 <Diablo-D3> everyone just uses m0's
158 2010-12-11 02:15:44 <xelister> Diablo-D3: my card would cost ~20 EUR to ship to usa
159 2010-12-11 02:15:59 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I use yours
160 2010-12-11 02:16:12 <xelister> after ungaying it from the lack of logs and tabs ;)
161 2010-12-11 02:18:32 <ArtForz> spaces vs. tabs? vi vs. emacs!
162 2010-12-11 02:19:30 <doublec> PCWorld has an article about bitcoin. Word's getting out.
163 2010-12-11 02:19:43 <Kiba> yyyeah we know
164 2010-12-11 02:19:54 <ArtForz> yep, yay!
165 2010-12-11 02:19:54 <donpdonp> doublec: urlL
166 2010-12-11 02:20:01 <donpdonp> i mean url? :)
167 2010-12-11 02:20:03 <Kiba> some good news for ArtForz
168 2010-12-11 02:20:08 <Kiba> assuming that price will rise
169 2010-12-11 02:20:13 <doublec> donpdonp, http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/213230/could_the_wikileaks_scandal_lead_to_new_virtual_currency.html
170 2010-12-11 02:20:18 <donpdonp> doublec: thx!
171 2010-12-11 02:20:25 <ArtForz> good news for anyone holding a decent chunk of btc ;)
172 2010-12-11 02:21:18 <Kiba> bad news for those who want to buy bitcoin
173 2010-12-11 02:21:37 <ArtForz> depends
174 2010-12-11 02:21:49 <tcatm> Why? You now know that you shouldn't wait much longer.
175 2010-12-11 02:21:56 <ArtForz> exactly
176 2010-12-11 02:22:09 <ArtForz> if you think this causes a major increase in demand now should be a good time to buy
177 2010-12-11 02:23:20 <necrodearia> ;;bc,calc 10000
178 2010-12-11 02:23:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 8 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 28 seconds
179 2010-12-11 02:24:04 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yeah, but whats the point?
180 2010-12-11 02:24:11 <Diablo-D3> I got it as going as fast as I can on my hardware
181 2010-12-11 02:24:24 <Diablo-D3> I cant afford a new video card
182 2010-12-11 02:24:37 <ArtForz> someone should create a bc calc assuming difficulty increases x1.4 every 10 days
183 2010-12-11 02:24:43 <ArtForz> then buy a used one
184 2010-12-11 02:24:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont.
185 2010-12-11 02:24:54 <Diablo-D3> too many cards on ebay are just broken
186 2010-12-11 02:25:04 <ArtForz> thanks to 68xx there should be plenty of used 57xx and 58xx floating around currently
187 2010-12-11 02:25:13 <Diablo-D3> they've been oc'ed until they were damaged
188 2010-12-11 02:25:17 <Diablo-D3> or they're just ready to die
189 2010-12-11 02:25:24 <donpdonp> ArtForz: good idea. it should query amazon for the going price of a 5970 and give a nice little profit estimate
190 2010-12-11 02:25:40 <donpdonp> (or loss :)
191 2010-12-11 02:25:44 <Diablo-D3> amazon? wtf?
192 2010-12-11 02:25:49 <Diablo-D3> newegg you fucking retard
193 2010-12-11 02:26:04 <ArtForz> well, the 4870 I got off ebay was pretty much broken, still good enough for mining
194 2010-12-11 02:26:07 <donpdonp> Diablo-D3: whatever. amazon was an example
195 2010-12-11 02:26:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I cant repair shit like you can
196 2010-12-11 02:26:29 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: that, and I buy new shit about every 5 years
197 2010-12-11 02:26:33 <Diablo-D3> it has to last that long
198 2010-12-11 02:27:07 <ArtForz> the GPU on my main "work" box is a 7600GS ...
199 2010-12-11 02:27:57 <ArtForz> it replaced a FX5600
200 2010-12-11 02:28:21 <Diablo-D3> you're lucky to have more than one box
201 2010-12-11 02:28:26 <ArtForz> yes, my main work box is still a AGP board
202 2010-12-11 02:28:37 <ArtForz> S939
203 2010-12-11 02:28:54 <ArtForz> 4G of ECC ram
204 2010-12-11 02:29:13 <tcatm> 4:3 CRT?
205 2010-12-11 02:29:17 <ArtForz> 2
206 2010-12-11 02:29:28 <ArtForz> 2 * 22" sony trinitron
207 2010-12-11 02:29:46 <Diablo-D3> heh, my 17" trin finally died
208 2010-12-11 02:29:58 <ArtForz> usually running 1600x1200 @ 100Hz
209 2010-12-11 02:30:10 <Diablo-D3> I replaced it with the monitor Im going to have for the next decade
210 2010-12-11 02:30:13 <ArtForz> they can also do 2048x1536 @ 75Hz
211 2010-12-11 02:30:30 <ArtForz> = dual 1920x1200 would be a *downgrade*
212 2010-12-11 02:30:54 <doublec> pool users have high expectations
213 2010-12-11 02:30:58 <tcatm> Almost any TFT is a downgrade.
214 2010-12-11 02:31:01 <doublec> "Why haven't we generated any blocks!!!"
215 2010-12-11 02:31:18 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: I agree
216 2010-12-11 02:31:21 <Diablo-D3> thats why I have an IPS
217 2010-12-11 02:31:25 <ArtForz> oh, CPU is a A64 X2 6000+
218 2010-12-11 02:31:28 <Diablo-D3> I needed to get something that would reduce eyestrain
219 2010-12-11 02:31:31 <ArtForz> PVA > IPS
220 2010-12-11 02:31:39 <Diablo-D3> ips > pva/mva
221 2010-12-11 02:31:56 <Diablo-D3> pva/mva still has the fucking hue shift problem, and insanely high refresh times
222 2010-12-11 02:32:05 <doublec> the channel should have a btc donation jar for everytime Diablo-D3 says shit, fuck, and retard. We'd be rich.
223 2010-12-11 02:32:05 <tcatm> Phones have 260 dpi screens. Why can't I have that in my TFT @ 24"?
224 2010-12-11 02:32:15 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: you can
225 2010-12-11 02:32:17 <doublec> :-)
226 2010-12-11 02:32:20 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: you can buy 1200p 17" screens
227 2010-12-11 02:32:30 <donpdonp> have the historical difficulty levels been recorded somewhere?
228 2010-12-11 02:32:32 <tcatm> URL?
229 2010-12-11 02:32:40 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: they're for laptops
230 2010-12-11 02:32:52 <Diablo-D3> they also have like 300dpi e-ink shit
231 2010-12-11 02:32:58 <Diablo-D3> which is probably what you'd really want
232 2010-12-11 02:32:59 <ArtForz> afair acer pulled that stunt
233 2010-12-11 02:33:33 <ArtForz> put a 17" laptop TFT in a desktop enclosure
234 2010-12-11 02:33:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: why would you ever say PVA is better?
235 2010-12-11 02:33:36 <tcatm> IBM had their T220/221. 204 dpi. That would make a nice screen.
236 2010-12-11 02:33:40 <Diablo-D3> you cant game on a PVA
237 2010-12-11 02:33:45 <Diablo-D3> or even watch movies on quite a few
238 2010-12-11 02:33:48 <Diablo-D3> especially that Dell shit
239 2010-12-11 02:33:53 <ArtForz> err.. what?
240 2010-12-11 02:34:21 <Diablo-D3> IPS is the only way you're not going to get gamma (tft does this) or hue (pva/mva does this) shift on off angle
241 2010-12-11 02:34:29 <Diablo-D3> IPS will just go darker
242 2010-12-11 02:34:33 <ArtForz> wtf is tft?
243 2010-12-11 02:35:01 <Diablo-D3> thin film transistor
244 2010-12-11 02:35:02 <ArtForz> all panels are TFT
245 2010-12-11 02:35:16 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: when someone says tft, they mean tn
246 2010-12-11 02:35:19 <ArtForz> TN, PVA, MVA, IPS, all TFT
247 2010-12-11 02:35:30 <Diablo-D3> instead of referring to a specific type
248 2010-12-11 02:35:47 <ArtForz> non-TFT = passive LCD, usually found in 16+ year old laptops
249 2010-12-11 02:35:58 <Diablo-D3> see above
250 2010-12-11 02:36:02 <ArtForz> oh, TN
251 2010-12-11 02:36:06 <ArtForz> TN is just junk
252 2010-12-11 02:36:06 <Diablo-D3> at some point tft became the name for specifically tn
253 2010-12-11 02:36:16 <Diablo-D3> tn is most tfts
254 2010-12-11 02:36:19 <ArtForz> with TN *everything* shifts with viewing angle
255 2010-12-11 02:36:19 <Diablo-D3> like, the vast majority
256 2010-12-11 02:36:26 <Diablo-D3> tn has really bad gamma shifts
257 2010-12-11 02:36:35 <ArtForz> also has hue shifts
258 2010-12-11 02:36:36 <Diablo-D3> Ive seen really shitty tn panels that gamma shift so bad the colors invert
259 2010-12-11 02:36:43 <Diablo-D3> as in, negative gamma
260 2010-12-11 02:36:49 <ArtForz> yea
261 2010-12-11 02:36:59 <Diablo-D3> mva/pva just hue shift
262 2010-12-11 02:37:08 <Diablo-D3> ips only darkens, but keeps gamma and hue correct
263 2010-12-11 02:37:13 <tcatm> Most TNs are also only 5 or 6 bits per color.
264 2010-12-11 02:37:22 <ArtForz> good PVAs dont hue shift
265 2010-12-11 02:37:22 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: no
266 2010-12-11 02:37:33 <ArtForz> yes
267 2010-12-11 02:37:36 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: they dont really have that issue anymore
268 2010-12-11 02:37:39 <ArtForz> most cheap TNs are 6 bit native
269 2010-12-11 02:37:46 <Diablo-D3> unless its a REALLY shit TN
270 2010-12-11 02:38:13 <ArtForz> cheap PVAs *do* have hue shift
271 2010-12-11 02:38:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: every PVA I've seen is unacceptable in some way
272 2010-12-11 02:38:25 <ArtForz> and cheap IPSes have BAD brightness shift
273 2010-12-11 02:38:28 <Diablo-D3> some dont have bad hue shift
274 2010-12-11 02:38:40 <Diablo-D3> but they dont react well to overdrive
275 2010-12-11 02:39:13 <ArtForz> yea, pva also has some ghosting
276 2010-12-11 02:39:36 <Diablo-D3> the real problem is a lot have a full change of about 24ms
277 2010-12-11 02:39:54 <ArtForz> ouch
278 2010-12-11 02:40:01 <Diablo-D3> but quote a grey to grey time of below 12
279 2010-12-11 02:40:04 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
280 2010-12-11 02:40:13 <ArtForz> recent high-end PVAs are about half that b-w-b
281 2010-12-11 02:40:20 <ArtForz> and ~5ms g-g
282 2010-12-11 02:40:32 <Diablo-D3> depends on the electronics paired with them
283 2010-12-11 02:40:44 <Diablo-D3> like, this is why I bought my NEC
284 2010-12-11 02:40:57 <ArtForz> NEC = great
285 2010-12-11 02:40:58 <Diablo-D3> zero added latency in the processing hardware
286 2010-12-11 02:41:09 <Diablo-D3> and the IPS panel has a full change of I think 12
287 2010-12-11 02:41:14 <Diablo-D3> its either 16 or 12
288 2010-12-11 02:41:33 <Diablo-D3> it has zero ghosting, and its like gaming on a fully analog CRT
289 2010-12-11 02:41:55 <Diablo-D3> its also expensive.
290 2010-12-11 02:42:16 <Diablo-D3> but it'll also last awhile
291 2010-12-11 02:42:35 <ArtForz> yeah, I'm buying a new screen like once every 10 years
292 2010-12-11 02:42:49 <Diablo-D3> I didnt want an LCD at all though
293 2010-12-11 02:42:55 <Diablo-D3> but I needed something that caused no eye strain
294 2010-12-11 02:42:59 <Diablo-D3> since Im infront of it a lot
295 2010-12-11 02:43:08 <Diablo-D3> I dont want to be blind when Im 40
296 2010-12-11 02:43:19 <ArtForz> well, my trinitrons are still good, I just dont like re-fixing the G2 bug every 3 months or so
297 2010-12-11 02:43:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I hate being poor
298 2010-12-11 02:43:24 <Diablo-D3> you know why?
299 2010-12-11 02:43:36 <Diablo-D3> being rich means you can buy cheap shit and replace it every year
300 2010-12-11 02:43:46 <Diablo-D3> that must be nice
301 2010-12-11 02:43:49 <tcatm> That makes you poor very fast.
302 2010-12-11 02:43:54 <Diablo-D3> a new 65" tv every year, a new car every year
303 2010-12-11 02:44:01 <ArtForz> staying rich means buying stuff 2x the price and replacing it every decade+
304 2010-12-11 02:44:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: then why am I not rich?
305 2010-12-11 02:44:15 <Diablo-D3> I barely have anything at all
306 2010-12-11 02:44:20 <Diablo-D3> I simply cant afford equipment failure
307 2010-12-11 02:44:43 <Diablo-D3> I have a $200 series mode surge protector and a $500 double converting UPS
308 2010-12-11 02:44:45 <Diablo-D3> you know why?
309 2010-12-11 02:44:54 <Diablo-D3> because its an insurance policy.
310 2010-12-11 02:45:02 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: you don't make much moeny?
311 2010-12-11 02:45:08 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: very little.
312 2010-12-11 02:45:14 <Kiba> why?
313 2010-12-11 02:45:18 <ArtForz> no clue, I make decent money and spend... not much
314 2010-12-11 02:46:04 <Kiba> there are guys with twice my experience in life..hmm
315 2010-12-11 02:47:09 <ArtForz> only thing I like blowing money on is computers and car stereos
316 2010-12-11 02:47:40 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: I dont particularly get along with people
317 2010-12-11 02:47:52 <Diablo-D3> working with other people is pretty much torture
318 2010-12-11 02:48:31 <Kiba> ArtForz: so you can blow your ears out?
319 2010-12-11 02:48:33 <Kiba> hmm
320 2010-12-11 02:48:35 <ArtForz> oh, I like working with people, I just hate working with incompetent people, which means... I dont like working with people either
321 2010-12-11 02:48:46 <ArtForz> Kiba: pretty much
322 2010-12-11 02:49:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: incompetent people are worse
323 2010-12-11 02:49:16 <Diablo-D3> but like, why the hell do people ... talk
324 2010-12-11 02:49:17 <Diablo-D3> at all
325 2010-12-11 02:49:26 <Diablo-D3> Im busy working, leave me the fuck alone
326 2010-12-11 02:49:49 <Diablo-D3> I spent an hour trying to load an entire problem into my head
327 2010-12-11 02:49:51 <Diablo-D3> and then BAM
328 2010-12-11 02:49:54 <Diablo-D3> someone opens their mouth
329 2010-12-11 02:49:59 <Diablo-D3> there it all goes down the drain
330 2010-12-11 02:50:18 <tcatm> You should implement push/pop :)
331 2010-12-11 02:51:06 <ArtForz> my car is a '86 vanagon diesel, 2*18" subs, custom door panels w/ 6" kickers and 4"/1" compo, 2*1kW RMS for subs, digital EQ + delay correction, 2nd alternator + 2 deep cycle batteries, ...
332 2010-12-11 02:51:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dont own a car.
333 2010-12-11 02:51:38 <ArtForz> = stereo is worth well > 3x as much as the car
334 2010-12-11 02:51:40 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: most people cant work that way
335 2010-12-11 02:52:06 <Kiba> who?
336 2010-12-11 02:52:19 <ArtForz> top speed 65mph, downhill ;)
337 2010-12-11 02:52:39 <tcatm> I never understood why people put so those stereos in their cars :)
338 2010-12-11 02:53:16 <ArtForz> err... because I like my music loud
339 2010-12-11 02:53:38 <Diablo-D3> I dont understand why anyone would want to listen to music while driving
340 2010-12-11 02:53:41 <Diablo-D3> its a distraction
341 2010-12-11 02:53:53 <ArtForz> so what?
342 2010-12-11 02:54:45 <ArtForz> while driving I listen to music, smoke, drink coffee, eat a big mac and fiddle with my GPS
343 2010-12-11 02:54:53 <ArtForz> number of accidents in 20 years: 0
344 2010-12-11 02:54:57 <Diablo-D3> and this is why I dont own a car
345 2010-12-11 02:55:06 <Diablo-D3> its a legal liability anyhow
346 2010-12-11 02:55:23 <Diablo-D3> someone runs into you, and YOUR insurance goes up
347 2010-12-11 02:55:33 <ArtForz> not around here
348 2010-12-11 02:55:42 <Diablo-D3> and the government is implicit in the crime of letting rich people have another way to steal your money
349 2010-12-11 02:56:06 <ArtForz> honestly, in rural .de you NEED a car
350 2010-12-11 02:56:28 <Diablo-D3> I live in rural maine.
351 2010-12-11 02:56:30 <Diablo-D3> its worse.
352 2010-12-11 02:56:55 <ArtForz> public transport is decent in/around cities, but 20 miles out from the next 50k+ pop city you're SOL
353 2010-12-11 02:57:54 <Diablo-D3> we have no public transport here
354 2010-12-11 02:58:15 <Diablo-D3> I live in a down with less than 50k people, where "in" is probably 20 miles away
355 2010-12-11 02:58:36 <ArtForz> we have a bus, twice a day. bus stop is a 1h walk
356 2010-12-11 03:00:12 <ArtForz> we used to have a train station, but that got closed >10 years ago after rail got "privatized"
357 2010-12-11 03:00:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah, more fucking rich people stealing money
358 2010-12-11 03:02:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: hey
359 2010-12-11 03:02:21 <Diablo-D3> Im looking at my miner
360 2010-12-11 03:02:23 <Diablo-D3> its reaading 75.3
361 2010-12-11 03:02:25 <ArtForz> if you take a state monopoly and turn it into a private monopoly *it's still a fucking monopoly fuckwads*
362 2010-12-11 03:02:27 <Diablo-D3> wtf.
363 2010-12-11 03:02:50 <Diablo-D3> at, at least when its a government monopoly I can bitch and be heard
364 2010-12-11 03:02:59 <Diablo-D3> voting with your dollar doesnt work
365 2010-12-11 03:03:09 <Diablo-D3> they just pay off the government to steal your money
366 2010-12-11 03:03:12 <Diablo-D3> like the banks did
367 2010-12-11 03:03:48 <ArtForz> pretty much
368 2010-12-11 03:04:00 <Diablo-D3> I hate rich people so goddamned much
369 2010-12-11 03:04:13 <Diablo-D3> OH BOO HOO, WE HAVE TO PAY TAXES, SOMEONE SAVE US
370 2010-12-11 03:04:19 <Diablo-D3> well fuck you in the fucking ass you fucking fags
371 2010-12-11 03:04:21 <Kiba> democracy
372 2010-12-11 03:04:28 <ArtForz> I have nothing against rich people, I hate parasites
373 2010-12-11 03:04:28 <Diablo-D3> go sip your $20 coffees and shut the fuck up
374 2010-12-11 03:04:29 <Kiba> is organized polunder
375 2010-12-11 03:04:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: rich people ARE parasites
376 2010-12-11 03:04:39 <Diablo-D3> very few ever deserved their money
377 2010-12-11 03:04:41 <Diablo-D3> _very_ few
378 2010-12-11 03:04:41 <kermit> this is off topic, please see ##economics or ##politics
379 2010-12-11 03:04:50 <Diablo-D3> kermit: fuck ##economics
380 2010-12-11 03:04:53 <necrodearia> I introduced bitcoin to donationcoder.com via their irc channel on efnet, and they are encouraging me to write a post on their forum.  However, I am too lazy and more importantly I don't want to write a sloppy intro post about bitcoin, one that I'll regret, I am embarrassed by or even one that is considered poor representation of the bitcoin community/project.  Is anyone up for taking up such responsibility and writing a post on th
381 2010-12-11 03:05:17 <Kiba> necrodearia: pay me some bitcoin
382 2010-12-11 03:05:24 <necrodearia> >_<
383 2010-12-11 03:05:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: like, you know what happens if anyone ends up curing cancer?
384 2010-12-11 03:05:52 <Diablo-D3> the scientist who did it will end up dead in a gutter somewhere after his wife left him and took his house and kids
385 2010-12-11 03:05:57 <ArtForz> some big pharma co. buys the patent and sits on it for the next 30 years?
386 2010-12-11 03:06:01 <Diablo-D3> but his boss will get a million dollar bonus
387 2010-12-11 03:06:12 <Diablo-D3> and people will still die of cancer because poor people cant afford the cure
388 2010-12-11 03:06:29 <Kiba> let patent this life-saving medicine, BIATCH
389 2010-12-11 03:06:49 <[Noodles]> that's why we're minin, not folding
390 2010-12-11 03:06:59 <Diablo-D3> good work mining did
391 2010-12-11 03:07:11 <Diablo-D3> I generated about $75 worth of coins
392 2010-12-11 03:07:13 <Diablo-D3> and that was it
393 2010-12-11 03:07:13 <Kiba> Diablo-D3 hates all rich people
394 2010-12-11 03:07:18 <Kiba> and Diablo-D3 is poor
395 2010-12-11 03:07:32 <Kiba> maybe he see most people as being useless
396 2010-12-11 03:07:41 <Diablo-D3> most people ARE useless, Kiba
397 2010-12-11 03:07:46 <ArtForz> most people are useless
398 2010-12-11 03:07:51 <necrodearia> donationcoder offers to pay me in cody coins if I post.  Again, I offer someone to post on my behalf ^_^
399 2010-12-11 03:07:57 <Diablo-D3> how many people just sit back and bitch they're unemployed?
400 2010-12-11 03:08:00 <Kiba> but who will work the resturant!!!1111
401 2010-12-11 03:08:01 <Diablo-D3> why dont do they do anything about it?
402 2010-12-11 03:08:09 <Kiba> I do something about it, abiet poorly
403 2010-12-11 03:08:54 <necrodearia> I wish I were useless, but I still have potential to write a first post about bitcoin on dc forum.  Someone wanna make me useless and post for me?
404 2010-12-11 03:08:58 <Kiba> DO SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING
405 2010-12-11 03:09:02 <Diablo-D3> you know what
406 2010-12-11 03:09:02 <necrodearia> I'm trying
407 2010-12-11 03:09:04 <Diablo-D3> I hate mining
408 2010-12-11 03:09:08 <Diablo-D3> it now says 75.4
409 2010-12-11 03:09:10 <Kiba> necrodearia: pay me bitcoin
410 2010-12-11 03:09:15 <necrodearia> How about cody coin?
411 2010-12-11 03:09:31 <Kiba> at some point, I want bitcoins
412 2010-12-11 03:09:37 <ArtForz> hey, at least you dont get fibrosis from mining bitcoins :P
413 2010-12-11 03:09:58 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no, but watch the IRS come in and steal my computer for evidence
414 2010-12-11 03:10:03 <Diablo-D3> or the FBI
415 2010-12-11 03:10:11 <Diablo-D3> because some rich person was butthurt over it
416 2010-12-11 03:10:18 <necrodearia> It would be even more drastic if ArtForz hardwares were confiscated
417 2010-12-11 03:10:23 <Kiba> Peter Thiel will save us!
418 2010-12-11 03:10:43 <Diablo-D3> meh, fuck art's hardware
419 2010-12-11 03:10:46 <Diablo-D3> he can afford to replace it
420 2010-12-11 03:10:50 <necrodearia> ^_^
421 2010-12-11 03:10:53 <ArtForz> confiscated for what? I'm running this above-board
422 2010-12-11 03:11:13 <Kiba> hmm
423 2010-12-11 03:11:20 <Kiba> what can they possibly punish ArtForz for?
424 2010-12-11 03:11:29 <doublec> Jealousy?
425 2010-12-11 03:11:29 <necrodearia> ArtForz, reasons aren't necessary for confiscating.   Reasons can be created.
426 2010-12-11 03:11:35 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: they dont need a reason
427 2010-12-11 03:11:39 <Diablo-D3> not even a legal one
428 2010-12-11 03:11:54 <Diablo-D3> in the US, its now guilty even if proven innocent
429 2010-12-11 03:11:55 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: that why I spent some time ya know convincing CCC and EFF
430 2010-12-11 03:11:59 <Kiba> because these things might happen
431 2010-12-11 03:12:25 <Kiba> too bad CCC don't listen to letters written in English
432 2010-12-11 03:12:25 <necrodearia> Consider Julian Assange as a notable example.  He's not even in the US
433 2010-12-11 03:12:46 <Diablo-D3> unless the EFF wants to lead an armed revolution to put the Constitution back up on the wall
434 2010-12-11 03:12:50 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck can they do
435 2010-12-11 03:13:00 <Diablo-D3> when you're rich, you can buy judges
436 2010-12-11 03:13:06 <Diablo-D3> or even congressmen
437 2010-12-11 03:13:27 <ArtForz> hey, we have the best politicians money can buy!
438 2010-12-11 03:13:30 <necrodearia> And since pcworld wrote article referencing wikileaks and bitcoin...
439 2010-12-11 03:13:46 <necrodearia> it's only a matter of time before bitcoin becomes another evil portrayed in current media
440 2010-12-11 03:13:57 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I might as well delete my miner off github
441 2010-12-11 03:14:01 <ArtForz> so what
442 2010-12-11 03:14:01 <Diablo-D3> and quit coming here
443 2010-12-11 03:14:08 <ArtForz> freenet is also evil according to mass media
444 2010-12-11 03:14:11 <Diablo-D3> fuck the world
445 2010-12-11 03:15:04 <Kiba> ArtForz: you mean the old world called TV?
446 2010-12-11 03:15:27 <ArtForz> the old world I call media conglomerates
447 2010-12-11 03:15:40 <necrodearia> So, even though you may be considered a large target in regards to your establishments, you may want to consider protecting yourself in some fashion.
448 2010-12-11 03:15:52 <necrodearia> just in case
449 2010-12-11 03:16:42 <necrodearia> for example establish a bitcoin node separate from your primary miners
450 2010-12-11 03:16:44 <Diablo-D3> whats the point of trying to make the world better when you're just called a terrorist for doing it
451 2010-12-11 03:16:46 <tcatm> The only reason "they" would hunt miners is if they wanted to do something stupid to stop bitcoin.
452 2010-12-11 03:17:03 <necrodearia> and preserve majority of your assets securely
453 2010-12-11 03:17:10 <ArtForz> well, when I shut down my generator in spring and mining on utility power is still profitable I fully expect a visit from a "fire inspector" and a bunch of cops with drug dogs
454 2010-12-11 03:17:22 <necrodearia> ^_^
455 2010-12-11 03:17:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I would sue
456 2010-12-11 03:17:43 <Diablo-D3> also, I think I'd tell the cops to go home
457 2010-12-11 03:17:46 <ArtForz> well, law here says you have to let a fire inspector in
458 2010-12-11 03:17:49 <Diablo-D3> the apartment I live in doesnt allow dogs
459 2010-12-11 03:17:54 <Diablo-D3> even if they're visitors
460 2010-12-11 03:18:08 <ArtForz> of course with 14 day written prior notice
461 2010-12-11 03:18:15 <Diablo-D3> also, get a fucking warrant
462 2010-12-11 03:18:31 <necrodearia> ArtForz, A suggestion.  You should take pictures or video of your entire setup and as it continues to grow take more pictures, video, to share with the world (as you permit)
463 2010-12-11 03:18:37 <Kiba> make sure you're out of the house when the police come to raid
464 2010-12-11 03:18:49 <Kiba> don't want to be shot on accident
465 2010-12-11 03:19:01 <Diablo-D3> he'll just be arrested for avoiding arrest
466 2010-12-11 03:19:02 <Kiba> they will be WTFing themsleves
467 2010-12-11 03:19:19 <Diablo-D3> and then shot
468 2010-12-11 03:19:24 <ArtForz> our cops are slightly less trigger happy
469 2010-12-11 03:19:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: not when they're paid to shoot in sight
470 2010-12-11 03:19:53 <ArtForz> not really afraid of that
471 2010-12-11 03:20:32 <ArtForz> but it's really somewhat fucked up
472 2010-12-11 03:21:26 <ArtForz> basically when they suspect someone of growing pot said fire inspector + cops show up unnanounced, telling you a fire inspector has the right to check your buildings for fire safety
473 2010-12-11 03:21:50 <ArtForz> conveniently leaving out the "WITH 2 WEEKS WRITTEN PRIOR NOTICE" part of the law
474 2010-12-11 03:21:50 <Diablo-D3> yes, and I'd tell him to return with a warrant
475 2010-12-11 03:22:17 <ArtForz> and the cops can go fuck themselves without a warrant
476 2010-12-11 03:23:12 <tcatm> Btw, is there any trigger for such a suspections?
477 2010-12-11 03:23:14 <tcatm> -s
478 2010-12-11 03:23:22 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: yes, hes using power.
479 2010-12-11 03:23:25 <ArtForz> sudden continued high power use
480 2010-12-11 03:23:32 <Diablo-D3> which automatically means you're DOIN DRUGS MAN
481 2010-12-11 03:23:35 <Diablo-D3> YOU'RE HIGH MAN
482 2010-12-11 03:23:53 <ArtForz> yeah, because everyone uses grow lamps *headdesk*
483 2010-12-11 03:24:05 <tcatm> What's considered high power? :)
484 2010-12-11 03:24:17 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: more than everyone else on the block uses
485 2010-12-11 03:24:27 <ArtForz> "whatever the utility companys sofware flags"
486 2010-12-11 03:24:33 <Diablo-D3> yeah basically
487 2010-12-11 03:24:39 <Diablo-D3> and you cant trust the power company
488 2010-12-11 03:24:43 <Diablo-D3> more rich fags
489 2010-12-11 03:24:54 <Diablo-D3> DUEFA HURF LETS BURN COAL AND DESTROY THE WORLD FOR PROFIT
490 2010-12-11 03:25:13 <ArtForz> but yeah, afair it's something like continous >2-3x of an "average household of that size"
491 2010-12-11 03:25:15 <Diablo-D3> when did it become illegal to defend yourself against people trying to kill you?
492 2010-12-11 03:25:47 <ArtForz> dude, gun laws in .de are just fucking insane
493 2010-12-11 03:26:07 <ArtForz> you need a fucking license for a BB
494 2010-12-11 03:26:30 <Diablo-D3> thats not what I mean
495 2010-12-11 03:26:39 <Diablo-D3> I should be able to kill anyone that owns a coal mine
496 2010-12-11 03:27:20 <ArtForz> another variant of tragedy of the commons
497 2010-12-11 03:27:25 <Diablo-D3> but OH NOES, TERRORISTSTSTSTSTST
498 2010-12-11 03:27:59 <Diablo-D3> and my government sure as hell isnt fixing the problem
499 2010-12-11 03:28:51 <spacemagic> might be making it worse
500 2010-12-11 03:29:07 <ArtForz> btw, I expect plenty of "bitcoin used by commie pedo terrorist pirates" propaganda if bitcoin takes off
501 2010-12-11 03:29:14 <Diablo-D3> how many fucking times have the republicans bombed efforts to do green power
502 2010-12-11 03:29:26 <Lysacor> It doesn't meet their business interests
503 2010-12-11 03:29:30 <Diablo-D3> of course it doesnt
504 2010-12-11 03:29:34 <Lysacor> yep
505 2010-12-11 03:29:42 <Diablo-D3> fucking saudi royal family
506 2010-12-11 03:29:43 <spacemagic> replace the word republicans with "big oil companies" and i'll agree
507 2010-12-11 03:29:53 <Diablo-D3> if I was president, I'd execute every one of them
508 2010-12-11 03:29:57 <Diablo-D3> myself personally if I had to
509 2010-12-11 03:30:01 <Lysacor> pretty interchangable
510 2010-12-11 03:30:11 <Diablo-D3> I dont support terrorism
511 2010-12-11 03:30:17 <Diablo-D3> and Im sure as hell not soft on crime
512 2010-12-11 03:30:26 <spacemagic> lol @ commie pedo terroris pirates
513 2010-12-11 03:30:28 <Lysacor> Sadly, given the right condition, they would do the same to anyone that doesn't agree with them.
514 2010-12-11 03:30:36 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: they have
515 2010-12-11 03:30:50 <ArtForz> did I forget one?
516 2010-12-11 03:31:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: socalists
517 2010-12-11 03:31:03 <Diablo-D3> and nazis
518 2010-12-11 03:31:13 <Diablo-D3> so basically, Obama should be running bitcoin by now
519 2010-12-11 03:31:40 <ArtForz> I fucking hate green tree-huggers
520 2010-12-11 03:31:47 <Diablo-D3> so do I
521 2010-12-11 03:31:48 <Diablo-D3> but look up
522 2010-12-11 03:31:52 <Diablo-D3> look whats in the sky
523 2010-12-11 03:31:58 <Diablo-D3> the most efficient form of fusion power ever
524 2010-12-11 03:32:01 <ArtForz> yep
525 2010-12-11 03:32:12 <Diablo-D3> all we need is to setup solar and wind to use it
526 2010-12-11 03:32:23 <ArtForz> yeah
527 2010-12-11 03:32:24 <Diablo-D3> efficient solar could power the needs of our entire civilzation FOREVER
528 2010-12-11 03:33:09 <ArtForz> yep
529 2010-12-11 03:33:18 <ArtForz> I'm more thinking of the "everyone should live in a cave and eat tofu" nuts
530 2010-12-11 03:33:26 <Diablo-D3> but
531 2010-12-11 03:33:30 <Diablo-D3> OH LETS BURN COAL
532 2010-12-11 03:33:31 <Lysacor> True, but our civilization has not reached anywhere near a forseeable apex of power requirements either. The sun can only generate a finite amount of power per square meter
533 2010-12-11 03:33:32 <Diablo-D3> AND OIL
534 2010-12-11 03:33:35 <Diablo-D3> AND SLANDER TESLA
535 2010-12-11 03:33:40 <ArtForz> thats just fucking stupid
536 2010-12-11 03:33:41 <Diablo-D3> tesla motors makes my dick hard
537 2010-12-11 03:33:56 <ArtForz> I'd rather have nukes than coal/gas/oil
538 2010-12-11 03:34:07 <Diablo-D3> oh, and nukes?
539 2010-12-11 03:34:09 <Diablo-D3> guess what!
540 2010-12-11 03:34:11 <Lysacor> I don't condone dirty power generation, but we don't know where things are going, and nuclear is a very viable option
541 2010-12-11 03:34:15 <Diablo-D3> we have efficient safe nuclear reacotrs!
542 2010-12-11 03:34:22 <Diablo-D3> BUT GODDAMNED IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM
543 2010-12-11 03:34:25 <ArtForz> yep
544 2010-12-11 03:34:30 <Diablo-D3> "OH NOES, MY TESTICLES MIGHT DO SOMETHING!"
545 2010-12-11 03:34:39 <Diablo-D3> we could deploy pebble reactors everywhere
546 2010-12-11 03:34:39 <Lysacor> And there are also designs by individuals to use thorium for fuel, instead of uranium
547 2010-12-11 03:34:49 <Diablo-D3> and it'd work great
548 2010-12-11 03:34:51 <Diablo-D3> you cant blow them up
549 2010-12-11 03:34:58 <Diablo-D3> you cant even really use them as dirty bombs
550 2010-12-11 03:35:07 <Diablo-D3> and they can be transported on 18 wheelers in cases of emergancy
551 2010-12-11 03:35:13 <Diablo-D3> even computer failure would do absolutely nothing
552 2010-12-11 03:35:15 <Lysacor> Yep
553 2010-12-11 03:35:23 <Diablo-D3> the maximum temp they can reach _is their normal operating temp_
554 2010-12-11 03:35:32 <Diablo-D3> anything less and you're not generating power
555 2010-12-11 03:35:38 <Diablo-D3> BUT NO
556 2010-12-11 03:35:41 <Diablo-D3> WE CANT HAVE THAT CAN WE
557 2010-12-11 03:35:48 <Diablo-D3> WE MIGHT LOSE VOTES FROM THE FUCKING TOFU FAGS
558 2010-12-11 03:35:49 <ArtForz> isn't it "the more you cool them the higher the reaction rate" ?
559 2010-12-11 03:35:53 <Diablo-D3> AN IMPORTANT VOTING BLOCK IN CALIFORNIA
560 2010-12-11 03:36:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no... you generate using the waste heat
561 2010-12-11 03:36:19 <ArtForz> = stop coolant flow, the reactor just sits there at 800???C or so
562 2010-12-11 03:36:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
563 2010-12-11 03:36:34 <Diablo-D3> but in normal reactors, you have fuel rods
564 2010-12-11 03:36:47 <Diablo-D3> you retract them when it gets too hot
565 2010-12-11 03:36:51 <ArtForz> yep
566 2010-12-11 03:36:54 <Diablo-D3> if they dont retract, the place goes up
567 2010-12-11 03:37:07 <Diablo-D3> normal operating temp is much lower than meltdown temps
568 2010-12-11 03:37:20 <ArtForz> I think I have a good grasp of how conventional reactors work
569 2010-12-11 03:37:20 <Diablo-D3> pebble reactors reach maximum temp and... thats it
570 2010-12-11 03:37:23 <ArtForz> yep
571 2010-12-11 03:37:26 <Diablo-D3> maximum temp IS operating temp
572 2010-12-11 03:37:30 <Diablo-D3> they CANT melt down
573 2010-12-11 03:37:33 <Diablo-D3> no fuel rods, no moving parts
574 2010-12-11 03:37:34 <ArtForz> yep
575 2010-12-11 03:37:40 <Diablo-D3> just a tank that heats up
576 2010-12-11 03:37:49 <Diablo-D3> turn off coolant, turn off the computer
577 2010-12-11 03:37:51 <Diablo-D3> and nothing happens
578 2010-12-11 03:37:56 <ArtForz> yep
579 2010-12-11 03:37:57 <Diablo-D3> you're just wasting money letting it sit
580 2010-12-11 03:38:02 <Diablo-D3> its 100% fucking safe
581 2010-12-11 03:38:07 <Diablo-D3> we're not mass producing them
582 2010-12-11 03:38:18 <Diablo-D3> we could have power so fucking cheap you couldnt meter it
583 2010-12-11 03:38:26 <Lysacor> yep, they can't profit from it
584 2010-12-11 03:38:30 <Diablo-D3> we would be the number one power in the world for another 50 years
585 2010-12-11 03:38:32 <Lysacor> it is all a profit motive
586 2010-12-11 03:38:39 <ArtForz> and honestly nuclear waste looks positively benign compared to coal/oil/gas plants nicely distributing crap all over the planet
587 2010-12-11 03:38:52 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: I think putting us back to a state of control ike we had at the end of ww2 is worth it
588 2010-12-11 03:39:02 <Diablo-D3> I dont trust my government... I trust foreign governments even less
589 2010-12-11 03:39:18 <Diablo-D3> the last thing I want is china et al. rising to power
590 2010-12-11 03:39:40 <ArtForz> well, as it currently looks, china WILL rise to power
591 2010-12-11 03:39:45 <Diablo-D3> yes
592 2010-12-11 03:39:54 <Diablo-D3> because the rich people have our hands tied behind our backs
593 2010-12-11 03:39:59 <Lysacor> Diablo: As long as that control does not give rise to a new McCarthyist witch hunt. Fine. Anything to keep the military-industrial complex at bay.
594 2010-12-11 03:40:00 <Diablo-D3> instead of letting us fight the invaders
595 2010-12-11 03:40:19 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: the socio-military-industrial complex is a failure
596 2010-12-11 03:40:31 <Diablo-D3> it let a competitor appear in the world that wasnt part of the scam
597 2010-12-11 03:40:32 <Lysacor> Diablo: Agreed
598 2010-12-11 03:40:35 <Diablo-D3> russia played "the game" with us
599 2010-12-11 03:40:38 <Diablo-D3> china doesnt.
600 2010-12-11 03:40:51 <xelister> what atre you guys bambing about
601 2010-12-11 03:40:55 <ArtForz> nothing
602 2010-12-11 03:41:06 <ArtForz> oh, this isn't #bitcoin-offtopic?
603 2010-12-11 03:41:08 <ArtForz> ;)
604 2010-12-11 03:41:16 <Diablo-D3> destroying the saudis
605 2010-12-11 03:41:34 <tcatm> Background noise to keep the community together ;)
606 2010-12-11 03:41:38 <xelister> [05:04] <Diablo-D3> OH BOO HOO, WE HAVE TO PAY TAXES, SOMEONE SAVE US
607 2010-12-11 03:41:39 <xelister> [05:04] <Diablo-D3> well fuck you in the fucking ass you fucking fags
608 2010-12-11 03:41:41 <Diablo-D3> and running everything off electricity so cheap that it would cause a boost to the economy that would only be compared to the industrial revolution itself
609 2010-12-11 03:41:42 <Lysacor> Technically it is the one of the larger bitcoin processors... and a developer... talking... and I am just chiming in :P
610 2010-12-11 03:41:42 <xelister> hehe another classic diablo
611 2010-12-11 03:41:49 <Diablo-D3> we'd own the world
612 2010-12-11 03:41:50 <Diablo-D3> again
613 2010-12-11 03:41:54 <Kiba> hmm
614 2010-12-11 03:42:14 <Diablo-D3> we'd be the saudis of electrical power
615 2010-12-11 03:42:23 <Kiba> I have sucky nose
616 2010-12-11 03:42:26 <Diablo-D3> and it would destroy an entire industry
617 2010-12-11 03:42:32 <Kiba> of what?
618 2010-12-11 03:42:33 <Diablo-D3> one that has only caused problems
619 2010-12-11 03:42:39 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: the oil industry
620 2010-12-11 03:42:43 <Kiba> oh.
621 2010-12-11 03:42:52 <Diablo-D3> it would collapse a 150 year reign of terror
622 2010-12-11 03:43:00 <Diablo-D3> a shadow empire that exists to destroy the world
623 2010-12-11 03:43:01 <xelister> necrodearia: offer actuall?
624 2010-12-11 03:43:44 <Kiba> even I think Diablo-D3 a bit nut
625 2010-12-11 03:44:15 <xelister> <ArtForz> freenet is also evil according to mass media
626 2010-12-11 03:44:22 <xelister> yeah, some idiots think its for childporn
627 2010-12-11 03:44:23 <xelister> sorry jgarzik
628 2010-12-11 03:44:33 <ArtForz> dont forget terrorists
629 2010-12-11 03:44:34 <xelister> well anything can be used for anything
630 2010-12-11 03:44:36 <ArtForz> and pirates
631 2010-12-11 03:44:43 <ArtForz> they somehow missed the commies
632 2010-12-11 03:44:56 <xelister> people have problem with fn used for cp,  but not with like, knifes used for murder.. taxes used to sponosr mudering people in wars, and so on
633 2010-12-11 03:45:28 <Kiba> xelister: it's called compartmenization
634 2010-12-11 03:45:37 <Diablo-D3> Kiba: Im not nuts, Im just tired of this shit
635 2010-12-11 03:45:57 <xelister> in todayw word normal people are nuts
636 2010-12-11 03:46:07 <ArtForz> "the current situation sucks, let's rant on the internet" ;)
637 2010-12-11 03:46:10 <Diablo-D3> anyone who supports the freedoms of the people are nuts
638 2010-12-11 03:46:14 <Kiba> xelister: how do you know that you're not nut?
639 2010-12-11 03:46:15 <xelister> americans raping/killing people in iraq --> no moral outcry.
640 2010-12-11 03:46:17 <Lysacor> the better question is, what is normal?
641 2010-12-11 03:46:21 <Diablo-D3> our founding fathers were the terrorists of their days
642 2010-12-11 03:46:38 <xelister> someone wanks to a CARTOON DRAWING of a minor -> OH NOES sound the alarm! wweeee weeee weeee weeeee help help
643 2010-12-11 03:46:44 <Diablo-D3> because they stood up for what they thought was right
644 2010-12-11 03:46:47 <Lysacor> That would be your Christian hypocrisy, but it exists in all religions, and lack of religion
645 2010-12-11 03:46:48 <Diablo-D3> and were even willing to die for it
646 2010-12-11 03:46:58 <Lysacor> anyone who is not like you, is less than you
647 2010-12-11 03:47:00 <xelister> yeah christians are fucking hipocrits, usually
648 2010-12-11 03:47:06 <ArtForz> xelister: more crazy in .de, written word is enough
649 2010-12-11 03:47:08 <Diablo-D3> christians are anti-God.
650 2010-12-11 03:47:17 <xelister> although, if someone would trully follow guidelines for christiantiy, he would be moral imho (e.g. jesus)
651 2010-12-11 03:47:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well shit, hope no one has a copy of Lolita then
652 2010-12-11 03:47:34 <Diablo-D3> xelister: Jesus was a terrorist
653 2010-12-11 03:47:38 <xelister> huh?
654 2010-12-11 03:47:40 <Diablo-D3> he fought the Man, and the man executed him for it
655 2010-12-11 03:47:44 <xelister> he did only good deads
656 2010-12-11 03:47:50 <xelister> ah ok you're being ironic
657 2010-12-11 03:47:51 <Diablo-D3> he told the truth, xelister
658 2010-12-11 03:47:57 <Diablo-D3> and they killed him for it
659 2010-12-11 03:48:02 <xelister> indeed, nowdays USA would declar jesus
660 2010-12-11 03:48:05 <xelister> a terroist
661 2010-12-11 03:48:08 <xelister> and pedophile lol
662 2010-12-11 03:48:11 <Diablo-D3> they declared him that back then
663 2010-12-11 03:48:28 <Diablo-D3> the central church of the jewish religion saw him as a threat to their power
664 2010-12-11 03:48:29 <xelister> oh noe why is Jesus talking to children? omg omg!
665 2010-12-11 03:48:31 <Diablo-D3> and they killed him for it
666 2010-12-11 03:48:32 <jrabbit> Yeah what have the romans ever done for us
667 2010-12-11 03:48:42 <Diablo-D3> yeah, thats the worst thing
668 2010-12-11 03:48:45 <Diablo-D3> they had the romans do it for them
669 2010-12-11 03:48:55 <jrabbit> ...
670 2010-12-11 03:48:58 <xelister> perhaps someone should do such campaign lol
671 2010-12-11 03:49:00 <jrabbit> you bloody moron
672 2010-12-11 03:49:04 <Diablo-D3> at least if you're going to kill someone, do it with your own hands
673 2010-12-11 03:49:18 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: the jews handed him over to the romans
674 2010-12-11 03:49:21 <Lysacor> If a Christian followed the Bible verbatim. Women would be subjugated, the word of an imaginary deity is pushed by an ever corrupt ecclesiarchy. All leading to subjugation of the masses. Religion is not designed to enlighten... it is designed to capture the thoughts of an individual and sway them to another's whim.
675 2010-12-11 03:49:21 <xelister> like, showing how nowdays Jesus would be seen as terrorist/pedo, arrested by Romans for ``rape'', and then charged for conspiracy
676 2010-12-11 03:49:23 <Diablo-D3> it was romans hands that executed him
677 2010-12-11 03:49:27 <Diablo-D3> but the _jews_ did it
678 2010-12-11 03:49:33 <jrabbit> its a motherfucking monty python quote
679 2010-12-11 03:49:39 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: feh
680 2010-12-11 03:49:44 <jrabbit> who let you on the internet
681 2010-12-11 03:49:45 <Diablo-D3> fuck monty python
682 2010-12-11 03:50:06 <xelister> <_<
683 2010-12-11 03:50:24 <Lysacor> :P
684 2010-12-11 03:50:32 <ArtForz> ^.^
685 2010-12-11 03:50:32 <Diablo-D3> Lysacor: if christians followed the bible verbatim, they'd realize the bible is written in such a way that you must reject what you feel is wrong
686 2010-12-11 03:51:23 <Diablo-D3> If you accept what is in the bible as the literal truth, then you failed
687 2010-12-11 03:51:27 <Diablo-D3> you didnt read it at all
688 2010-12-11 03:52:00 <Lysacor> Diablo: Pretty much, but if you don't accept the bible as the literal truth, you failed anyways in modern Christianity's eyes
689 2010-12-11 03:52:10 <Diablo-D3> modern Christians do not believe in God
690 2010-12-11 03:52:18 <ArtForz> define Christianity?
691 2010-12-11 03:52:20 <Diablo-D3> they worship Walmart and McDonalds and other modern idols
692 2010-12-11 03:52:30 <noagendamarket> jesus was a troll
693 2010-12-11 03:52:31 <Diablo-D3> they worship the almighty dollar
694 2010-12-11 03:52:52 <jrabbit> noagendamarket: which one was that?
695 2010-12-11 03:52:55 <Diablo-D3> to emulate Jesus is to fight The Man.
696 2010-12-11 03:53:07 <jrabbit> Zoraster?
697 2010-12-11 03:53:09 <Diablo-D3> thats what it is to follow the path that God has set infront of you.
698 2010-12-11 03:53:17 <Diablo-D3> You right the wrongs.
699 2010-12-11 03:53:18 <Lysacor> That is a good question, "Christian" is more of a weak self-title than it is any level of religious thought.
700 2010-12-11 03:53:31 <noagendamarket> cthulu is awake
701 2010-12-11 03:53:51 <Diablo-D3> Like, anyone who continues to call themselves a Catholic should not be trusted
702 2010-12-11 03:53:58 <Lysacor> Phnglui mglwnafh Cthulhu Rlyeh wgah-nagl ftaghn
703 2010-12-11 03:54:02 <jrabbit> "oh wah the ruling ideolgoy is underrepresented"
704 2010-12-11 03:54:06 <Diablo-D3> I mean, I bitch about rich people... but look at the vatican
705 2010-12-11 03:54:13 <Diablo-D3> do you KNOW how much they have?
706 2010-12-11 03:54:15 <ArtForz> dude, the Catholic church is a fucking joke
707 2010-12-11 03:54:20 <Diablo-D3> they have entire underground libraries of one of a kind books
708 2010-12-11 03:54:28 <Diablo-D3> they dont "hide" them, anyone can go see them
709 2010-12-11 03:54:31 <Diablo-D3> but you have to know they have it first
710 2010-12-11 03:54:40 <Diablo-D3> and they dont make that list public
711 2010-12-11 03:54:46 <jrabbit> huh
712 2010-12-11 03:54:47 <ArtForz> biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet
713 2010-12-11 03:54:59 <jrabbit> who doesn't know that the vatican is the number one repository of latin texts?
714 2010-12-11 03:55:04 <Diablo-D3> you're taken to a secure room and you cannot leave the room until you are done with the book
715 2010-12-11 03:55:10 <Diablo-D3> and someone is in there with you with the book at all time
716 2010-12-11 03:55:20 <Diablo-D3> they also have hundreds of religious artifacts
717 2010-12-11 03:55:25 <Diablo-D3> they just hoard it
718 2010-12-11 03:55:35 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: they think its just some church library
719 2010-12-11 03:55:38 <jrabbit> Lol.
720 2010-12-11 03:55:42 <Diablo-D3> but its a top of the line secure facility
721 2010-12-11 03:55:46 <Lysacor> An increasingly corrupt ecclesiarchy, who make decisions in the abscence of God. The Vatican has a rather backwards way of looking at the world imho.
722 2010-12-11 03:55:52 <jrabbit> This is the dumbest critique of one of the most evil organizations
723 2010-12-11 03:55:58 <jrabbit> you make them seem benign almost
724 2010-12-11 03:55:59 <jrabbit> lol.
725 2010-12-11 03:56:08 <Diablo-D3> the vatican could sink to the bottom of the ocean after an earth quake
726 2010-12-11 03:56:16 <Diablo-D3> and no one in the facility would ever know
727 2010-12-11 03:56:49 <Diablo-D3> they'd just wonder why the air intakes automatically closed, and the front door is sealed
728 2010-12-11 03:57:02 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: that isnt it
729 2010-12-11 03:57:06 <Diablo-D3> what ELSE do they have?
730 2010-12-11 03:57:18 <Diablo-D3> like, we already know they helped kill the jews during ww2
731 2010-12-11 03:57:26 <Diablo-D3> and helped move their gold into the banking system
732 2010-12-11 03:57:32 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: you're failing to see the hegelian couterpart
733 2010-12-11 03:57:39 <jrabbit> its hardly what they do
734 2010-12-11 03:57:44 <jrabbit> its what they don't
735 2010-12-11 03:58:04 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: Im getting to that
736 2010-12-11 03:58:10 <Diablo-D3> they have more money than any government in the world
737 2010-12-11 03:58:12 <Diablo-D3> they say they dont
738 2010-12-11 03:58:20 <Diablo-D3> they try to hide it in aways that arent immediately obvious
739 2010-12-11 03:58:28 <jrabbit> thats absurd.
740 2010-12-11 03:58:30 <ArtForz> they say they dont?
741 2010-12-11 03:58:36 <ArtForz> no, they dont say.
742 2010-12-11 03:58:41 <ArtForz> big difference
743 2010-12-11 03:58:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: they try to claim they only have, maybe, hundreds of millions
744 2010-12-11 03:58:48 <Diablo-D3> maybe billions
745 2010-12-11 03:58:50 <ArtForz> because the latter is technically not lying :P
746 2010-12-11 03:58:53 <jrabbit> that you think they're some kind of conspiracy beyond their inherant existance
747 2010-12-11 03:58:56 <Diablo-D3> its probably in the tens or hundreds of trillions
748 2010-12-11 03:59:03 <jrabbit> must be some condition of belief in nonexistance
749 2010-12-11 03:59:05 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: its not a "conspiracy" in that sense
750 2010-12-11 03:59:20 <Diablo-D3> its the effects of 2000 years of theft.
751 2010-12-11 03:59:26 <theymos> I read some article about how the Vatican was supposedly going to bail out the UK with their immense gold stockpiles for some reason.
752 2010-12-11 03:59:28 <Diablo-D3> an organization that has gone to war
753 2010-12-11 03:59:35 <Diablo-D3> an organization that destroyed the holy lands repeatedly
754 2010-12-11 03:59:37 <jrabbit> property is theft
755 2010-12-11 03:59:40 <Diablo-D3> all in the name of the prophet
756 2010-12-11 03:59:41 <jrabbit> whoopde freakin do
757 2010-12-11 03:59:46 <Diablo-D3> sorry, I mean PROFIT
758 2010-12-11 03:59:53 <ArtForz> lol
759 2010-12-11 04:00:06 <Diablo-D3> its absurd
760 2010-12-11 04:00:07 <jrabbit> good job you jsut realized your god is no match to the totality of capital
761 2010-12-11 04:00:26 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: not at all
762 2010-12-11 04:00:39 <Diablo-D3> God cannot directly interfere with the day to day lives of Man
763 2010-12-11 04:00:59 <noagendamarket> Pedobear is the catholic mascot
764 2010-12-11 04:01:02 <jrabbit> when you figure out the rest of 19th century philosophy let me know
765 2010-12-11 04:01:12 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: its not about philosophy
766 2010-12-11 04:01:15 <Diablo-D3> its about doing the right thing
767 2010-12-11 04:01:23 <Diablo-D3> if I had a few hundred trillion in the bank
768 2010-12-11 04:01:27 <Diablo-D3> I'd _buy_ the cure for cancer
769 2010-12-11 04:01:29 <Diablo-D3> straight out
770 2010-12-11 04:01:48 <ArtForz> and thats why you wont ever have
771 2010-12-11 04:01:54 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: of course
772 2010-12-11 04:01:59 <Diablo-D3> the people who would do the right thing
773 2010-12-11 04:02:01 <Diablo-D3> never can
774 2010-12-11 04:02:24 <Diablo-D3> the world is corrupt by default as far as I can tell
775 2010-12-11 04:02:43 <Diablo-D3> its not about "absolute power corrupts absolutely"
776 2010-12-11 04:02:49 <Diablo-D3> letting yourself be corrupt is a choice.
777 2010-12-11 04:02:58 <ArtForz> it seems to be somewhat of a law
778 2010-12-11 04:03:07 <Kiba> that men are amoral
779 2010-12-11 04:03:17 <Diablo-D3> if you cannot be corrupted, the power wont come to you
780 2010-12-11 04:03:24 <Diablo-D3> thats about the only thing I can figure out
781 2010-12-11 04:03:37 <MT`AwAy> so true
782 2010-12-11 04:03:45 <ArtForz> you dont get rich and powerful by being nice
783 2010-12-11 04:03:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: who said being nice
784 2010-12-11 04:03:58 <Diablo-D3> Im a total fucking asshole
785 2010-12-11 04:04:16 <Diablo-D3> but I dont want to be rich just to be rich like all these other assholes
786 2010-12-11 04:04:32 <Diablo-D3> I want to live in a world that I could be truly happy with
787 2010-12-11 04:04:50 <Kiba> I am OUT
788 2010-12-11 04:05:08 <Diablo-D3> Mere diseases have no place in that world.
789 2010-12-11 04:05:17 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: back to 19th C political phil
790 2010-12-11 04:05:19 <jrabbit> lol
791 2010-12-11 04:05:22 <Diablo-D3> Starvation has no place in that world.
792 2010-12-11 04:05:45 <ArtForz> and a pony
793 2010-12-11 04:05:58 <Diablo-D3> Obama saying "no, we cant afford to go to mars because the banks stole all our money" has no place in that world.
794 2010-12-11 04:06:28 <Diablo-D3> Humanity is driven to seek the truth; the moment we stop is when we all die.
795 2010-12-11 04:06:43 <jrabbit> lol extra terriestial exploration without collectivization
796 2010-12-11 04:06:45 <Diablo-D3> And we're getting to close to that point than I'm comfortable with.
797 2010-12-11 04:06:51 <jrabbit> like that'll ever happen
798 2010-12-11 04:07:23 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: Im not sure why you brought up collectivization
799 2010-12-11 04:07:49 <Diablo-D3> there are no more farmers anymore
800 2010-12-11 04:07:56 <Diablo-D3> just employees of a company
801 2010-12-11 04:08:35 <ArtForz> not around here, but keep going
802 2010-12-11 04:08:51 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, in the US, most natural food consumed is grown by a company
803 2010-12-11 04:08:58 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: because spacefaring is kind of a symptom of higher civilization
804 2010-12-11 04:09:18 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: but forcing people to farm under a soviet system is not higher civilization
805 2010-12-11 04:09:47 <ArtForz> I know, yet we still mostly have independent farmers around here
806 2010-12-11 04:09:48 <Diablo-D3> stalin told his people "farm or be executed"... and the farms were really prison camps
807 2010-12-11 04:09:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: you're lucky
808 2010-12-11 04:10:03 <jrabbit> omg stalin a monster? NO WAI
809 2010-12-11 04:10:07 <jrabbit> please.
810 2010-12-11 04:10:10 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: so why bring it up?
811 2010-12-11 04:10:23 <Diablo-D3> are you saying we need to treat people like cogs in a machine to explore other planets?
812 2010-12-11 04:10:26 <jrabbit> I don't think you know what that word means lol
813 2010-12-11 04:10:35 <ArtForz> that and they organized to fight the food cos
814 2010-12-11 04:10:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wow, and they wernt executed on their own lands for it?
815 2010-12-11 04:10:51 <ArtForz> nope
816 2010-12-11 04:11:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: here, they colluded with the banks to push the farms under
817 2010-12-11 04:11:04 <jrabbit> no the people need to autonomously orginize into one being if they want to not kill themselves
818 2010-12-11 04:11:07 <Diablo-D3> and then bought the land
819 2010-12-11 04:11:21 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: thats not quite what collectiviation means
820 2010-12-11 04:11:27 <Diablo-D3> it has a specific historical meaning
821 2010-12-11 04:11:37 <ArtForz> what happened around here is that farmers started to form free collectives
822 2010-12-11 04:11:41 <appamatto> Hey guys, I have some bitx design that I'd like an opinion about
823 2010-12-11 04:11:43 <jrabbit> why would I use it in the lbieral capitalsit meaning
824 2010-12-11 04:12:04 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: why would you use it anything other than the soviet meaning?
825 2010-12-11 04:12:18 <appamatto> In bitcoin, timestamps are supposed to be related to real time, but the users at large could cooperate to speed or slow bitcoin time with respect to realtime
826 2010-12-11 04:12:19 <Diablo-D3> I mean, you might as well start quoting shit out of Atlas Farted or whatever the name of that book was
827 2010-12-11 04:12:21 <jrabbit> dude it means any collective system
828 2010-12-11 04:12:50 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: its slavery
829 2010-12-11 04:12:55 <appamatto> I think this is actually a feature.  Imagine that blocks were scarce and couldn't support the world level of transactions
830 2010-12-11 04:13:12 <ArtForz> sharing equipment, selling each others products at local farm shops, electing representatives for industry deals
831 2010-12-11 04:13:13 <appamatto> The users at large could then cooperate to speed the pace of block production without altering the protocol
832 2010-12-11 04:13:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wow, Im surprised they wernt harassed by your equiv of the IRS
833 2010-12-11 04:13:46 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: "WELL YOU GOTTA CHARGE EACH OTHER FOR RENTING FEES, EVEN IF YOU DIDNT, AND NONE OF THAT B2B SHIT"
834 2010-12-11 04:13:52 <ArtForz> oh, they were
835 2010-12-11 04:14:00 <ArtForz> they also lost a lot of EU subsidys
836 2010-12-11 04:14:12 <Diablo-D3> surprised the subsidies wernt taken away
837 2010-12-11 04:14:26 <Diablo-D3> if you dont play by the rules that have been enforced by rich people here, you dont get them
838 2010-12-11 04:14:33 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: lol.
839 2010-12-11 04:14:39 <ArtForz> yep, exactly that heppend
840 2010-12-11 04:15:03 <ArtForz> yet they still manage to operate at a small profit
841 2010-12-11 04:15:11 <appamatto> For bitx, my idea is for there to be a system-derived time unit, "blocktime" and the system doesn't decided the relation of blocktime to regular time, but does attempt to create one block per unit blocktime
842 2010-12-11 04:15:25 <jrabbit> Beause oen degenerated workers state under military rule used marxist thought to justify its terror doesn't mean they had any sense in it
843 2010-12-11 04:15:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: thats amazing
844 2010-12-11 04:15:30 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: ^
845 2010-12-11 04:15:37 <jrabbit> you need to edumucate
846 2010-12-11 04:15:39 <ArtForz> yep, it's inspiring
847 2010-12-11 04:15:49 <theymos> appamatto: Bitcoin block time isn't allowed to get too far from real time.
848 2010-12-11 04:15:52 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: you're the one bringing up slavery, not me
849 2010-12-11 04:15:53 <jrabbit> http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/63/227.html
850 2010-12-11 04:15:57 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: I dont support it at all
851 2010-12-11 04:16:03 <ArtForz> especially as they'd work less hours and earn more getting some low-level industry job
852 2010-12-11 04:16:11 <appamatto> theymos, but it could, if all the clients decided to "vote" via artificially setting timestamps, correct?
853 2010-12-11 04:16:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: farming here is fully industrialized
854 2010-12-11 04:16:25 <theymos> appamatto: No. You'd reject the blocks.
855 2010-12-11 04:16:37 <appamatto> theymos, no, because there are small allowances
856 2010-12-11 04:16:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: infact, farming here is a major drive for science funding
857 2010-12-11 04:16:44 <necrodearia> http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=24858.msg226703
858 2010-12-11 04:16:53 <appamatto> theymos, can't you even set the timestamp before the previous one without being rejected?
859 2010-12-11 04:16:53 <ArtForz> we have plenty of industrial farms in the ex-GDR states
860 2010-12-11 04:17:09 <necrodearia> I tried delegating posting about it to others, but nobody would accept.  Kiba almost did, but requested bitcoins to do so.  I couldn't afford it, and therefore, there is my attempt
861 2010-12-11 04:17:12 <Diablo-D3> you have these fuck huge machines roving down the fields
862 2010-12-11 04:17:21 <Diablo-D3> the new "negros" so to speak
863 2010-12-11 04:17:32 <Diablo-D3> we cant have black people do it, so lets have NO people do it
864 2010-12-11 04:17:44 <Diablo-D3> quit the improvement to the bottom line
865 2010-12-11 04:17:45 <ArtForz> = food industry swooped in and bought all the huge GDR farming "collectives" when germany was "re-united"
866 2010-12-11 04:17:52 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: you don't seem to know what "communism" is from a state capitalist police ruled state
867 2010-12-11 04:18:11 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: communism, in it's perfect form, is the fucking smurfs.
868 2010-12-11 04:18:16 <appamatto> theymos, therefore I can fudge the timestamp to be slower or faster, and if enough people do that then the system will actually force others to adopt the same view as well
869 2010-12-11 04:18:26 <appamatto> I think this is actually a feature of bitcoin
870 2010-12-11 04:18:26 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/63/227.html
871 2010-12-11 04:18:30 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: soviet russia never practiced communism, and communism falls apart after about 12 people
872 2010-12-11 04:18:44 <Diablo-D3> jrabbit: instead, what soviet russia was, was slavery
873 2010-12-11 04:18:53 <jrabbit> Lookie here
874 2010-12-11 04:18:59 <Diablo-D3> you were property of the state, and you were replaceable.
875 2010-12-11 04:19:03 <jrabbit> mister didn't click the link and guesses what it says
876 2010-12-11 04:19:09 <Diablo-D3> I dont care what it says.
877 2010-12-11 04:19:11 <jrabbit> only to reaffirm Emma Goldman
878 2010-12-11 04:19:16 <jrabbit> good job moron
879 2010-12-11 04:19:22 <Diablo-D3> well Im glad Emma Goldman agrees with me.
880 2010-12-11 04:19:35 <Diablo-D3> Ive only been saying this for years.
881 2010-12-11 04:19:39 <appamatto> theymos, is that correct?
882 2010-12-11 04:19:51 <Diablo-D3> Yay, one less troll.
883 2010-12-11 04:20:08 <appamatto> I'm pretty sure communism requires force
884 2010-12-11 04:20:12 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dunno though, industrialization of farms should have led to cheaper, safer, more homognous food
885 2010-12-11 04:20:38 <ArtForz> or more profit for less people
886 2010-12-11 04:20:39 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: instead, its more expensive, more dangerous, and even starving foreign nations we GIVE the food to sometimes reject it
887 2010-12-11 04:20:55 <Diablo-D3> then again, I guess they're sick of rice and corn
888 2010-12-11 04:21:39 <appamatto> I think one problem of bitcoin is that it tries to do too many things
889 2010-12-11 04:21:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the problem is
890 2010-12-11 04:21:48 <Diablo-D3> the government doesnt seek to implement more efficient methods
891 2010-12-11 04:22:01 <Diablo-D3> I could replace Congress with a fucking AI.
892 2010-12-11 04:22:03 <appamatto> it has the concept of a timestamp that is supposed to relate to realtime, but there is no real need for it to relate to realtime
893 2010-12-11 04:22:06 <Diablo-D3> infact
894 2010-12-11 04:22:11 <Diablo-D3> I could replace it with a fucking coin
895 2010-12-11 04:22:21 <ArtForz> you could replace congress with a perl script. a short one.
896 2010-12-11 04:22:27 <Diablo-D3> heads, the bill passes and everyone hates it, tails, the bill doesnt pass and everyone hates it
897 2010-12-11 04:22:30 <appamatto> The point of the timestamp system is not to serve as a clock, but rather for it to regulate the production of blocks
898 2010-12-11 04:22:35 <theymos> appamatto: Under no circumstances will you accept a block too far in the future. A ton of people could move blocks back in time.
899 2010-12-11 04:22:38 <Diablo-D3> either way, everyone hates it
900 2010-12-11 04:22:49 <ArtForz> difference between socialism and capitalism? "the party" instead of "the banks" owns everything ;)
901 2010-12-11 04:22:54 <Diablo-D3> the only thing the government must do is make sure we cant kill each other, and maintain society
902 2010-12-11 04:23:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: Ive been saying that for years
903 2010-12-11 04:23:18 <Diablo-D3> except at least in a capitalist society, I can become one of those banks
904 2010-12-11 04:23:20 <appamatto> theymos, I'm not talking about too future or too past, I'm talking about each client decided what time is best for its purposes, and nudging the timestamp forward or backward within the realm of acceptibility
905 2010-12-11 04:23:35 <Diablo-D3> in soviet russia, you had to be left into the special club
906 2010-12-11 04:23:46 <theymos> appamatto: If I receive a block and its timestamp is more than two hours in the future as I see it, I will reject that block.
907 2010-12-11 04:23:47 <Diablo-D3> and they only let their own kind in
908 2010-12-11 04:23:57 <Diablo-D3> anyone else was a dangerous influence to their perfect society and must be killed!
909 2010-12-11 04:24:13 <Diablo-D3> lets kill the jews! and the polish! and the poor people! and the farmers! and the scientists!
910 2010-12-11 04:24:22 <appamatto> theymos, oh ok.  I think that's overkill though
911 2010-12-11 04:24:30 <Diablo-D3> oh look at that! no ones left in russia!
912 2010-12-11 04:24:35 <Diablo-D3> fucking morons
913 2010-12-11 04:24:49 <Diablo-D3> wipe them all out and be done with it
914 2010-12-11 04:25:12 <appamatto> I think that instead of a timestamp notion there should be a rate of production notion that clients are essentially voting on
915 2010-12-11 04:25:27 <ArtForz> which one is it? fucking morons or wiping em out?
916 2010-12-11 04:25:29 <appamatto> That way no adjustments are ever needed to the protocol, and the system is self-regulating
917 2010-12-11 04:26:21 <appamatto> It's one less concept for the system to attempt to deal with, and it seems like a cleaner design
918 2010-12-11 04:26:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wipe out the fucking morons? yus plz
919 2010-12-11 04:27:10 <maximi891> bitcoin should have a password to open it, and encrypt the user hash
920 2010-12-11 04:27:22 <Diablo-D3> maximi891: doesnt matter, I can just spy the memory allocated by bitcoin and grab shit
921 2010-12-11 04:27:36 <ArtForz> pointless
922 2010-12-11 04:27:37 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is not an especially secure or paranoid app
923 2010-12-11 04:27:51 <theymos> It would be useful to have a "savings account" section of the wallet that requires a password to open.
924 2010-12-11 04:28:11 <ArtForz> or install a keylogger and wait for the moro... user to enter the password
925 2010-12-11 04:28:18 <Diablo-D3> luser, ArtForz, luser
926 2010-12-11 04:28:29 <appamatto> keyloggers own all
927 2010-12-11 04:28:35 <Diablo-D3> I mean hell
928 2010-12-11 04:28:37 <appamatto> Unless you're using dasher
929 2010-12-11 04:28:41 <Diablo-D3> the NSA probably knows my password
930 2010-12-11 04:28:42 <ArtForz> if I own the box, I own the box
931 2010-12-11 04:28:44 <Diablo-D3> using the van parked out on the street
932 2010-12-11 04:28:45 <Diablo-D3> HI GUYS!
933 2010-12-11 04:28:46 <appamatto> btw guys, if you haven't seen it you should take a look at dasher, the input method
934 2010-12-11 04:28:46 <ArtForz> ahh, the Flowers By Irene van ;)
935 2010-12-11 04:28:46 <Diablo-D3> I CAN SEE YOU
936 2010-12-11 04:28:49 <Diablo-D3> using magical electromagnetic shit
937 2010-12-11 04:29:03 <Diablo-D3> 8======D
938 2010-12-11 04:29:06 <Diablo-D3> there, I sent them a penis
939 2010-12-11 04:29:10 <Diablo-D3> I hope they're happy
940 2010-12-11 04:29:12 <ArtForz> EM attacks are easy
941 2010-12-11 04:29:25 <joe_1> appamatto: agree timestamp is worthless this was brought up in a thread on bitcoin.org. it is an anonymity weakness that clients give away their system time.
942 2010-12-11 04:29:37 <Diablo-D3> its kind of depressing you dont even have to be in the same room to keylog anymore
943 2010-12-11 04:29:40 <ArtForz> "my system runs ntp"
944 2010-12-11 04:29:48 <ArtForz> yeah, now that gave away a lot of identity
945 2010-12-11 04:30:20 <ArtForz> if your system time is more than 1 second off YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
946 2010-12-11 04:30:28 <Diablo-D3> I mean, it used to require you to install software, or install a passthrough dongle, or put something on the physical controller in the keyboard
947 2010-12-11 04:30:31 <Diablo-D3> but now
948 2010-12-11 04:30:40 <Diablo-D3> just point a DirecTV dish at your target
949 2010-12-11 04:30:41 <Diablo-D3> and bam
950 2010-12-11 04:31:56 <ArtForz> and if your system time is the same as everyone elses to within one second you're revealing ... nothing
951 2010-12-11 04:32:34 <joe_1> it's not needed and most clocks are not within 1 second.
952 2010-12-11 04:32:39 <theymos> appamatto: I don't think it would even be possible to move time in the past by very much. Your timestamp can't be lower than the median for the last 11 blocks. So you can keep the timestamp at some level, but not go below it.
953 2010-12-11 04:33:30 <maximi891> theymos: create your own NTP server? and change the Bios Time?
954 2010-12-11 04:34:02 <ArtForz> yep
955 2010-12-11 04:34:04 <appamatto> theymos, I think that clients could cooperate to change the time because most of them wanted to affect the rate of block production
956 2010-12-11 04:34:26 <appamatto> It's better than changing the protocol
957 2010-12-11 04:34:34 <maximi891> ok, if the blocks have the time, that could be impossible, i guess
958 2010-12-11 04:34:43 <theymos> appamatto: But if you go below some level, everyone will reject it and you can nudge no further.
959 2010-12-11 04:34:45 <ArtForz> it's still splitting the network
960 2010-12-11 04:35:02 <appamatto> theymos, I'm talking about a situation where most users agree that extra production is needed
961 2010-12-11 04:35:02 <joe_1> but, timestamp should not be used to calculate production rate. production rate should be calculated by each node separately based on time of receipt
962 2010-12-11 04:35:22 <appamatto> you could be a stickler and reject the blocks, but you'd be disagreeing with the majority
963 2010-12-11 04:35:23 <ArtForz> joe_1: and how the fuck does that work if clocks are not in sync?
964 2010-12-11 04:35:30 <joe_1> cause it's relative
965 2010-12-11 04:35:48 <ArtForz> so cumpter time is off by random amounts, but magically all those clocks are never slow or fast
966 2010-12-11 04:36:08 <theymos> appamatto: I'm just saying that currently Bitcoin *will* stop attempts like that.
967 2010-12-11 04:36:15 <appamatto> Like, let's say bitcoin really became popular and there were 1,000 clients.  How would we ever change the rate of production to suit the needs of the era?
968 2010-12-11 04:36:20 <appamatto> Right
969 2010-12-11 04:36:24 <joe_1> they are slow and fast, but not significantly so. if there is disagreement then the majority of cpu power will fight it out and the nodes that disagree will give up
970 2010-12-11 04:36:27 <appamatto> theymos, but I don't think that's a good idea
971 2010-12-11 04:36:41 <appamatto> I think bitcoin has several design decisions like this that aren't optimal
972 2010-12-11 04:36:47 <theymos> Bitcoin is supposed to be a distributed timestamp server. Kind of useless if time is unreliable.
973 2010-12-11 04:36:57 <ArtForz> no they wont, at least not in the current system
974 2010-12-11 04:37:09 <appamatto> theymos, bitcoin doesn't require a timestamp server
975 2010-12-11 04:37:17 <appamatto> it's only there to regulate difficultty
976 2010-12-11 04:37:25 <joe_1> so if my node disagrees with a block, my node will never switch over to a longer chain, even when the longer chain grows many, many blocks longer than the one i'm working on?
977 2010-12-11 04:37:33 <ArtForz> yep
978 2010-12-11 04:37:34 <maximi891> the actual maximum it's 21 million right?
979 2010-12-11 04:37:40 <MT`AwAy> you can try altering timestamp, but any alteration you manage to do will be made almost useless as soon as someone else generate one block