1 2010-12-17 00:01:19 <tcatm> Mkay, we'll see :)
  2 2010-12-17 00:01:46 <theymos> It only looks at blocks since last retarget, so after the retarget it only looks at a small amount of data.
  3 2010-12-17 00:06:29 <slush_cz1> hey, how can I list outgoing transactions from RPC??
  4 2010-12-17 00:07:42 <slush_cz1> ..using RPC... ?
  5 2010-12-17 00:08:39 <kiba> when the bitcoin site goes down
  6 2010-12-17 00:08:47 <kiba> everyone think of a distributed solution
  7 2010-12-17 00:09:20 <noagendamarket> osiris serverless portal?
  8 2010-12-17 00:09:29 <kiba> resilency is in our gene!
  9 2010-12-17 00:09:35 <kiba> osiris is not open source?
 10 2010-12-17 00:09:45 <noagendamarket> I tried it but couldnt get past the language barrier
 11 2010-12-17 00:09:59 <noagendamarket> I thought it was open source
 12 2010-12-17 00:10:01 <kiba> English. The Langa Franca of the world
 13 2010-12-17 00:11:09 <thrashaholic> lingua
 14 2010-12-17 00:11:21 <noagendamarket> lol
 15 2010-12-17 00:11:44 <kiba> wee!
 16 2010-12-17 00:11:49 <kiba> my bitcoin are all the sudden worth more!
 17 2010-12-17 00:14:58 <xelister> around how many attempts there are per success block?  and is this constant?
 18 2010-12-17 00:18:35 <theymos> 5 new Real-Time Stats pages: http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgtxsize http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgblocksize http://blockexplorer.com/q/interval http://blockexplorer.com/q/eta http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgtxnumber . Everything in this set takes an optional additional parameter specifying how may blocks to look back. Example: http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgtxnumber/100000 . ETA is especially interesting: it makes an estimate for seconds until the ne
 19 2010-12-17 00:18:36 <theymos> xt retarget based on block interval for the last x blocks, rather than guessing based on the difficulty estimate.
 20 2010-12-17 00:18:49 <da2ce7> it is random.  It is like picking a red ball from a really really big bag where every 1/100Trillion balls is Red.
 21 2010-12-17 00:19:20 <da2ce7> and there are an almost umlimted number of balls.
 22 2010-12-17 00:19:28 <da2ce7> it will take many atempts.
 23 2010-12-17 00:20:49 <RG> xchat|!pool
 24 2010-12-17 00:20:50 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 39mins 17secs ago): 35 clients, 56857 khash/s, next block est. 1wk 3days 17hrs 5mins 16secs
 25 2010-12-17 00:24:33 <yebyen> so you're tellin me that boardwalk is still out there
 26 2010-12-17 00:26:43 <yebyen> kiba: looks like you scared him away
 27 2010-12-17 00:26:56 <kiba> meh, even if he tried, he woudlnt' succeed
 28 2010-12-17 00:26:57 <yebyen> anyway .25 is not so great
 29 2010-12-17 00:27:31 <Tester> should have Tiny Miner working soon
 30 2010-12-17 00:27:46 <kiba> .25 is not so great?
 31 2010-12-17 00:27:47 <yebyen> i don't have that many cpu cycles to donate
 32 2010-12-17 00:27:50 <Tester> will be very simple and use file system for input output
 33 2010-12-17 00:28:03 <yebyen> i'm going to get one of these athlon x2 II 64
 34 2010-12-17 00:28:11 <yebyen> newegg deals
 35 2010-12-17 00:28:24 <yebyen> d-i-y $240 unit
 36 2010-12-17 00:28:31 <Tester> looks like the docs on JSON RPC and the wiki are not quite the same
 37 2010-12-17 00:29:05 <theymos> JSON-RPC changes a lot. If you see inconsistencies, update the wiki page.
 38 2010-12-17 00:29:28 <Tester> yeah but the algo that does the target work has to be the same - right ?
 39 2010-12-17 00:29:44 <Tester> how would proof of work match for all ?
 40 2010-12-17 00:30:03 <yebyen> kiba: my last order went in at .2592
 41 2010-12-17 00:30:11 <yebyen> kiba: .25 didn't trip my sensor
 42 2010-12-17 00:30:16 <Tester> this is just the miner part
 43 2010-12-17 00:30:30 <Tester> zillions of hashes
 44 2010-12-17 00:31:06 <Tester> and people seem to be testing 4 different sha256 code bases
 45 2010-12-17 00:31:23 <yebyen> alright .25 is higher than i've been trading all month
 46 2010-12-17 00:31:29 <Tester> one has to assume they all produce the same result
 47 2010-12-17 00:31:53 <theymos> Tester: Bitcoin uses double-SHA-256. Does the wiki say something different?
 48 2010-12-17 00:32:23 <Tester> the wiki gives a very general overview of the block hash
 49 2010-12-17 00:32:43 <Tester> the JSON RPC gives the input and output
 50 2010-12-17 00:32:51 <Tester> neither really nail it down
 51 2010-12-17 00:33:08 <Tester> in the code only 8 bits are tested for zeroes
 52 2010-12-17 00:33:44 <Tester> and yes the code shows a double-sha-256
 53 2010-12-17 00:33:49 <theymos> The wiki is designed for easy reading. Most pages shouldn't contain enough detail for implementing stuff.
 54 2010-12-17 00:34:23 <Tester> that;'s fine but it may be good to show people exactly so everyone matches up
 55 2010-12-17 00:35:04 <Tester> but that stuff about the Merkel Root ? does not really show in the code
 56 2010-12-17 00:35:13 <Tester> something called midstate is there
 57 2010-12-17 00:35:55 <Tester> and the time of day is not there as I see it
 58 2010-12-17 00:36:10 <Tester> nonce is all that really gets cranked
 59 2010-12-17 00:36:34 <spm_Draget> The 'hashing to get bitcoins' is there to slowly fill the network with money, right?
 60 2010-12-17 00:36:55 <Tester> doing the Proof of Work is part of the Throttle yes
 61 2010-12-17 00:37:03 <Tester> and the Block Chain building
 62 2010-12-17 00:37:23 <theymos> Tester: Miners don't deal with time. Bitcoin handles time, and the miner requests a new work every few seconds.
 63 2010-12-17 00:37:34 <tcatm> added network info to bitcoincharts.com
 64 2010-12-17 00:38:14 <[Noodles]> nice, thanks ^.^
 65 2010-12-17 00:38:17 <Tester> Hmmm earlier someone said every minute new data was started
 66 2010-12-17 00:38:28 <Tester> but the data is small 128 bytes
 67 2010-12-17 00:38:47 <Tester> so not all transactions in it
 68 2010-12-17 00:40:22 <Tester> but a miner could work and work with a partial correct algo and be beaten by others with different algo
 69 2010-12-17 00:41:26 <theymos> Transactions are in the block "body". Miners only hash the header.
 70 2010-12-17 00:42:14 <Tester> miners hash various pieces with different names not sure if one would really call that the header
 71 2010-12-17 00:42:33 <Tester> never fear it will be documented precisely
 72 2010-12-17 00:42:45 <Tester> that is really important for a fair system
 73 2010-12-17 00:42:50 <theymos> Those fields are referred to as a header in the Bitcoin source.
 74 2010-12-17 00:43:13 <Tester> midstate ? hash1 ?
 75 2010-12-17 00:43:29 <theymos> Those are not hashed. Only "data" -- the block header -- is hashed.
 76 2010-12-17 00:43:55 <theymos> Those fields do have a purpose, of course. I'm not sure what that purpose is. Some optimization.
 77 2010-12-17 00:44:19 <Tester> JSON RPC supplies data midstate hash1 target
 78 2010-12-17 00:44:51 <Tester> miner then cranks away with nonce dropped into some weird offset
 79 2010-12-17 00:45:15 <Tester> miner then only looks for 8 bits of zeroes
 80 2010-12-17 00:46:15 <Tester> so it is almost like 256 coin flips watching for 8 adjacent heads
 81 2010-12-17 00:47:29 <Tester> and the nonce is dancing its way around the data somewhat tied to the ByteOrder of the machine
 82 2010-12-17 00:48:00 <Tester> and nonce is incremented each hash
 83 2010-12-17 00:48:32 <theymos> It'd probably be appropriate to just ask for new work whenever nonce overflows.
 84 2010-12-17 00:49:09 <Tester> the wiki implies that is a feature the nonce walks over other fields and the code seems to show that
 85 2010-12-17 00:49:12 <tcatm> Yep, or update nTime.
 86 2010-12-17 00:49:32 <Tester> but that is very compiler dependent
 87 2010-12-17 00:50:25 <Tester> pointing nonce in the middle of data as a *uint or something could mean a lot of things
 88 2010-12-17 00:51:05 <Tester> but apparently this is likely x86 code
 89 2010-12-17 00:51:32 <Tester> and at the end of the day the block is sent for proof
 90 2010-12-17 00:51:37 <tcatm> You could always access it through the struct.
 91 2010-12-17 00:51:54 <Tester> yes as long as structs align as you think
 92 2010-12-17 00:52:12 <Tester> using char arrays has a lot of control as they do
 93 2010-12-17 00:53:06 <Tester> and as long as everyone is cranking for the same goal it works
 94 2010-12-17 00:54:15 <Tester> and those 8 key bits that need to roll 0s are key
 95 2010-12-17 00:55:20 <tcatm> They're actually a hack to avoid costly checking of the whole hash.
 96 2010-12-17 00:55:35 <Tester> sure
 97 2010-12-17 00:55:47 <Tester> but one may be able to work backwards
 98 2010-12-17 00:56:03 <tcatm> Are you trying to reverse the hash?
 99 2010-12-17 00:56:07 <Tester> run the hash in reverse
100 2010-12-17 00:56:24 <tcatm> I did that. Upto four rounds. Not worth it :)
101 2010-12-17 00:56:47 <Tester> no not trying to run it in reverse just make sure everyone is doing the same proof of work
102 2010-12-17 00:56:58 <tcatm> ?
103 2010-12-17 00:57:39 <Tester> well the wiki says one thing and the JSON RPC implies other processing and the code is the real reveal
104 2010-12-17 00:58:43 <Tester> if someone says take these 10 coins and flip them and the code only flips 2 coins that matters
105 2010-12-17 00:59:06 <tcatm> Which wiki page are you referring to?
106 2010-12-17 00:59:10 <Tester> why waste time on the other 8 coins
107 2010-12-17 00:59:34 <Tester> wiki for bitcoin on block hashing
108 2010-12-17 00:59:58 <yebyen> right now i have to flip some systemd coins
109 2010-12-17 01:00:06 <yebyen> cave resolve -x systemd is not happenin
110 2010-12-17 01:00:13 <yebyen> does anyone know paludis
111 2010-12-17 01:01:31 <Tester> also there is a risk someone puts code out that rarely wins coins
112 2010-12-17 01:01:46 <Tester> maybe the code is a little more strict
113 2010-12-17 01:02:13 <tcatm> We already had at least one bug in the miner that caused it to produce less winning hashes than it should.
114 2010-12-17 01:02:23 <Tester> and someone says "I never win any coins" - well surprise you are running the code that rarely wins
115 2010-12-17 01:04:33 <Tester> bug in the miner is OK if there is only ONE miner
116 2010-12-17 01:04:42 <Tester> one miner code base
117 2010-12-17 01:05:35 <tcatm> It only affected some CPUs under certain conditions.
118 2010-12-17 01:05:40 <Tester> one could also have a log and when a winning block goes up they could compare back and see if their miner hit any and missed it
119 2010-12-17 01:06:00 <Tester> this is like pro BINGO players
120 2010-12-17 01:06:19 <Tester> they want to audit all the numbers called
121 2010-12-17 01:06:55 <Tester> partly to see if they are sleeping
122 2010-12-17 01:07:54 <kiba> so, we're going to have the first bitcoin site sale soon
123 2010-12-17 01:08:08 <Tester> site sale ?
124 2010-12-17 01:08:27 <tcatm> pastecoin? :)
125 2010-12-17 01:08:50 <slush_cz1> :-D
126 2010-12-17 01:08:54 <Tester> there is a very nice article with some really cool links to people using it for trade
127 2010-12-17 01:12:57 <Tester> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2010/10/10/a-short-introduction-to-bitcoin.html
128 2010-12-17 01:17:55 <RG> xchat|!pool
129 2010-12-17 01:17:55 <RichardG> Pooled miner (173.255.205.10:8335) status (last updated 1hr 36mins 22secs ago): 38 clients, 68650 khash/s, next block est. 1wk 1day 20hrs 55mins 27secs
130 2010-12-17 01:18:19 <RG> xchat|!pool
131 2010-12-17 01:18:20 <RichardG> Could not obtain pooled miner status - log empty? Last log line: Connected to 173.255.205.10:8335
132 2010-12-17 02:03:09 <doublec> ,,pool
133 2010-12-17 02:03:09 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
134 2010-12-17 02:20:39 <appamatto> Howdy
135 2010-12-17 02:20:49 <appamatto> Bitcoin is listen on the router console for i2p now
136 2010-12-17 02:20:49 <doublec> howdy appamatto
137 2010-12-17 02:21:04 <appamatto> Saying that it accepts bitcoin donations
138 2010-12-17 02:21:14 <doublec> yep
139 2010-12-17 02:21:15 <appamatto> hey doublec
140 2010-12-17 02:21:59 <yebyen> i wonder if my non-profit is going to give me shit for soliciting bitcoin donations on their website
141 2010-12-17 02:22:09 <yebyen> non-profit web presence provider
142 2010-12-17 02:22:11 <appamatto> Anything happen in #pokerface?
143 2010-12-17 02:22:18 <yebyen> http://martyfunkhouser.csh.rit.edu/~yebyen/
144 2010-12-17 02:22:42 <noagendamarket> yebyen why would they?
145 2010-12-17 02:23:32 <yebyen> well i can think of reasons why they wouldn't
146 2010-12-17 02:23:47 <yebyen> but primarily because it should be funneled through someone at RIT
147 2010-12-17 02:24:00 <doublec> appamatto, I missed the #pokerface stuff, I don't know how it went
148 2010-12-17 02:24:06 <yebyen> it's not a real currency, they'll say, so we don't care
149 2010-12-17 02:24:18 <yebyen> but if it was USD/paypal, it would land me in a heap of trouble
150 2010-12-17 02:24:27 <noagendamarket> I suppose
151 2010-12-17 02:24:39 <noagendamarket> just say its virtual tokens lol
152 2010-12-17 02:24:42 <yebyen> i got in big trouble almost for hosting a political website
153 2010-12-17 02:24:54 <noagendamarket> Thats what I said to my accountant anyway
154 2010-12-17 02:24:58 <noagendamarket> :)
155 2010-12-17 02:25:06 <yebyen> noagendamarket: they will respect the virtual tokens, it's how they run their network drink machine around RIT's pepsi contract
156 2010-12-17 02:25:15 <yebyen> you buy drink credits
157 2010-12-17 02:25:20 <yebyen> then you flash your ibutton and a soda comes out
158 2010-12-17 02:25:24 <yebyen> or you telnet in, or whatever
159 2010-12-17 02:25:48 <noagendamarket> you could hack in  and accept bitcoins :)
160 2010-12-17 02:25:52 <yebyen> you just give cash to a drink admin, once he's got it, he registers your credits
161 2010-12-17 02:25:56 <bencoder> kiba: 10 hours late, but i'm here now
162 2010-12-17 02:26:18 <yebyen> there is a touchscreen and everything
163 2010-12-17 02:26:22 <yebyen> it's cool as hell
164 2010-12-17 02:26:47 <noagendamarket> does it order a refill when its empty?
165 2010-12-17 02:27:13 <yebyen> that's the admin's job
166 2010-12-17 02:27:17 <yebyen> keep a watch on the tally
167 2010-12-17 02:27:19 <grondilu> How can I check the validity of a bitcoin address ?
168 2010-12-17 02:27:24 <yebyen> and refill the machine when the jolt is running low
169 2010-12-17 02:28:30 <grondilu> (without python or bitcoind)
170 2010-12-17 02:28:32 <noagendamarket> bitcoin block explorer grondilu?
171 2010-12-17 02:28:44 <grondilu> hum
172 2010-12-17 02:28:46 <yebyen> does anyone know exherbo distro?
173 2010-12-17 02:29:36 <grondilu> The block explorer will validate a bitcoin address even if it is not in the block chain ?
174 2010-12-17 02:30:11 <kiba> bencoder: it does provide 0/confirmation functionality, right?
175 2010-12-17 02:30:39 <kiba> bencoder: so what you have planned next for your download site?
176 2010-12-17 02:32:45 <bencoder> kiba: since you're my only client who has an interest at the moment, what do you recommend I change/implement?
177 2010-12-17 02:33:07 <kiba> the...
178 2010-12-17 02:33:12 <kiba> commision fee?
179 2010-12-17 02:33:43 <bencoder> is that all that matters?
180 2010-12-17 02:33:59 <kiba> I would like automatic forwarding of my balance
181 2010-12-17 02:34:03 <kiba> like
182 2010-12-17 02:34:06 <kiba> every week or so
183 2010-12-17 02:34:13 <bencoder> ok
184 2010-12-17 02:34:40 <bencoder> i'll see if i have time to work on it this weekend
185 2010-12-17 02:34:54 <doublec> bencoder, what is your download site?
186 2010-12-17 02:35:23 <bencoder> www.bitcoinservice.co.uk not the best domain i know ><
187 2010-12-17 02:37:53 <kiba> bencoder: there's an opportunity to beat pastecoin
188 2010-12-17 02:38:33 <noagendamarket> yes there is
189 2010-12-17 02:38:37 <kiba> if you work with enoxice to ramp up your API and coordinate a way so that enoxicde implement his ransom model idea..that might be an excellent oportunity
190 2010-12-17 02:38:54 <kiba> btcTune
191 2010-12-17 02:40:24 <noagendamarket> Id be wary of using anything related to "itunes"
192 2010-12-17 02:40:47 <noagendamarket> apple are lawyer friendly to the max
193 2010-12-17 02:43:24 <kiba> bitcoin is an entrepeneural community
194 2010-12-17 02:44:10 <noagendamarket> yes I know....
195 2010-12-17 02:44:41 <noagendamarket> Just saying apple has 40 billion dollars lol
196 2010-12-17 02:44:51 <xelister> iTunes are for fags
197 2010-12-17 02:44:56 <noagendamarket> yes it is
198 2010-12-17 02:45:09 <xelister> who else likes to be fucked in the ass by totally anally stronger 'partner'
199 2010-12-17 02:45:14 <noagendamarket> It gives me the shits
200 2010-12-17 02:46:34 <noagendamarket> xelister your question makes no sense
201 2010-12-17 02:46:44 <noagendamarket> lol
202 2010-12-17 02:47:39 <Dr_Pangloss> ;;bc,calc 158500
203 2010-12-17 02:47:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 158500 Khps, given current difficulty of 12252.03471156 , is 3 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds
204 2010-12-17 02:52:12 <xelister> anyone wants 1 BTC to draw sketch of  1) cock  2) donkey  ?  Need it as part of presentation about installing ati drivers to start miner
205 2010-12-17 02:52:48 <xelister> >_>
206 2010-12-17 02:55:25 <noagendamarket> are you going to put the cock in your ass?
207 2010-12-17 02:55:29 <lolcat> xelister: You want an image of a cock?
208 2010-12-17 02:55:31 <noagendamarket> *hides
209 2010-12-17 03:07:10 <OneFixt> cock = rooster, donkey = ass?
210 2010-12-17 03:07:43 <noagendamarket> haha yeah
211 2010-12-17 03:07:54 <OneFixt> You could get 4 different pictures with that request!
212 2010-12-17 03:08:42 <Sapians> two of them NSFW :P
213 2010-12-17 03:09:05 <OneFixt> 3 actually =)
214 2010-12-17 03:09:11 <OneFixt> Only one has a rooster and a donkey.
215 2010-12-17 03:28:54 <Sapians> so is there a "definitive" list of sites that use BTC?
216 2010-12-17 03:30:56 <nanotube> tcatm: no... but i suppose it would be trivial to implement, based on a calculation from current estimated difficulty?
217 2010-12-17 03:31:07 <nanotube> Sapians: bitcoin.org/trade
218 2010-12-17 03:31:41 <noagendamarket> I just added one more site  http://lmptfy.com
219 2010-12-17 03:33:54 <nanotube> noagendamarket: heh guess that goes under 'donation accepting' section :)
220 2010-12-17 03:34:14 <nameless> |bahaha
221 2010-12-17 03:34:18 <noagendamarket> nanotube yeah lol
222 2010-12-17 03:34:22 <nameless> |there's already a porn site that accepts bitcoins!
223 2010-12-17 03:34:30 <nanotube> more than one, even, nameless| :)
224 2010-12-17 03:34:31 <noagendamarket> yes there are two of them
225 2010-12-17 03:34:36 <noagendamarket> or 3
226 2010-12-17 03:34:37 <nameless> |noagendamarket: I see that!
227 2010-12-17 03:34:57 <noagendamarket> madhatter hides his porn under his hat?
228 2010-12-17 03:35:01 <noagendamarket> lol
229 2010-12-17 03:37:01 <EvanR> i think thats great
230 2010-12-17 03:37:22 <EvanR> porn must be a staple fixture of any anarchy
231 2010-12-17 03:37:53 <grondilu> "staple fixture" ?
232 2010-12-17 03:38:10 <EvanR> im using staple as an adjective
233 2010-12-17 03:38:19 <EvanR> polymorphic parts of speech
234 2010-12-17 03:46:39 <appamatto> How's it going EvanR?
235 2010-12-17 03:47:42 <EvanR> i just bought 20 coins for 5USD and 47 cents via mastercard at bitcoingateway
236 2010-12-17 03:48:06 <Cusipzzz> EvanR cannot wait to hit the roulette table!
237 2010-12-17 03:48:23 <appamatto> EvanR .4 a coin?
238 2010-12-17 03:48:39 <EvanR> 5.47USD
239 2010-12-17 03:48:40 <doublec> he decided against my offer of 15 coins for $6
240 2010-12-17 03:48:49 <appamatto> oh
241 2010-12-17 03:48:51 <nanotube> Cusipzzz: any connection with CUSIP ?
242 2010-12-17 03:48:57 <nanotube> (just out of curiosity)
243 2010-12-17 03:49:05 <Cusipzzz> yes, a connection..
244 2010-12-17 03:49:14 <doublec> fees rack up the price per coin for small transactions a lot
245 2010-12-17 03:49:18 <nanotube> hehe, what kind of connection?
246 2010-12-17 03:49:27 <EvanR> yes
247 2010-12-17 03:49:33 <Cusipzzz> i work in the industry, you?
248 2010-12-17 03:49:49 <nanotube> i'm a student in the industry. :)
249 2010-12-17 03:50:29 <Cusipzzz> good luck..sadly the golden age is over...but who knows, still may be some 'coins' when you get here!
250 2010-12-17 03:50:45 <EvanR> golden age?
251 2010-12-17 03:51:06 <Cusipzzz> golden age of investment banking
252 2010-12-17 03:51:21 <nanotube> heh
253 2010-12-17 03:51:30 <appamatto> What is "the industry"?
254 2010-12-17 03:51:47 <Cusipzzz> investment banking/brokerage/prop trading
255 2010-12-17 03:52:00 <da2ce7> the golden age of the porn industry :P
256 2010-12-17 03:52:41 <gribble> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUSIP | The acronym CUSIP historically refers to the Committee on Uniform Security Identification Procedures, which was founded in 1964, during the paper crunch in ...
257 2010-12-17 03:52:41 <nanotube> appamatto: basically the finance industry. see ,,(sl cusip)
258 2010-12-17 03:53:17 <appamatto> Oh I see
259 2010-12-17 03:54:16 <Cusipzzz> basically it is like a UPC code for traded securities
260 2010-12-17 03:54:22 <Cusipzzz> unique identifier.
261 2010-12-17 03:54:38 <EvanR> is it a good idea for a shop to accept bitcoins in addition to credit cards
262 2010-12-17 03:54:48 <EvanR> i mean, will it save money
263 2010-12-17 03:54:59 <nanotube> EvanR: we all think so. :) lower fees than credit cards.
264 2010-12-17 03:55:03 <nanotube> at the very least
265 2010-12-17 03:55:15 <EvanR> zero fees if you dont exchange, right?
266 2010-12-17 03:55:15 <nanotube> also, lack of chargeback capacity (which the merchant usually has to eat)
267 2010-12-17 03:55:34 <Cusipzzz> so rather than saying, 'i want to trade the IBM jun 2018 7.25% bond with call feature...you say, ; i want CUSIP 514TY2819, and everyone on wall street knows exactly what bond you are talking about..or equity, or option
268 2010-12-17 03:55:46 <nanotube> EvanR: well, selling btc is usually an easier proposition than buying. since you don't have to convince your counterparty to take on any risk
269 2010-12-17 03:55:56 <nanotube> since again, btc is non-chargebackable
270 2010-12-17 03:57:05 <EvanR> i dont understand
271 2010-12-17 03:57:18 <EvanR> dont you have to take risk on the buyer
272 2010-12-17 03:57:23 <EvanR> when exchanging
273 2010-12-17 03:58:04 <nanotube> EvanR: well, you as the seller take the risk... but if you deal with known people in the community, there's little risk.
274 2010-12-17 03:58:20 <grondilu> 10 blocks to go before the end of the eBay share auction.  http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2287.40
275 2010-12-17 03:59:26 <EvanR> nanotube: ok, so in todays world you could start accept bitcoins, and collect them until you get to like 1000, then exchange?
276 2010-12-17 03:59:32 <EvanR> however long that takes
277 2010-12-17 04:00:15 <nanotube> yes
278 2010-12-17 04:00:23 <EvanR> or is it unlikely someones going to want to buy that many
279 2010-12-17 04:00:57 <EvanR> at least a three step process to get paid ;)
280 2010-12-17 04:01:38 <nanotube> EvanR: you can withdraw from mtgox via ach, if you have a large enough amount.
281 2010-12-17 04:01:54 <EvanR> ah good
282 2010-12-17 04:01:54 <nanotube> EvanR: so it's actually much easier to go btc -> mtgox -> usd, than the other way
283 2010-12-17 04:03:16 <EvanR> does it make sense for there to be two or more USD bitcoin markets like mtgox?
284 2010-12-17 04:03:30 <nanotube> yes... the more markets the merrier.
285 2010-12-17 04:03:31 <EvanR> i guess they could different in transfer and reporting services
286 2010-12-17 04:03:36 <EvanR> differ
287 2010-12-17 04:03:49 <EvanR> but the prices will generally be equal
288 2010-12-17 04:04:24 <nanotube> well, they should be within tx costs of arbitrage.
289 2010-12-17 04:04:58 <EvanR> how much does a trade cost on mtgox
290 2010-12-17 04:05:19 <kiba> 8 more posts until 30,000 posts on the forum!
291 2010-12-17 04:05:21 <kiba> wee!
292 2010-12-17 04:05:45 <ArtForz> 0.65%
293 2010-12-17 04:06:49 <EvanR> in all that trading, the system is 'throwing away' sub cent transactions?
294 2010-12-17 04:07:05 <EvanR> 0.65% is going to cause a lot of sig figs
295 2010-12-17 04:07:26 <ArtForz> why?
296 2010-12-17 04:07:36 <ArtForz> mtgox trades re done internally
297 2010-12-17 04:07:52 <EvanR> oh, so not through bitcoin
298 2010-12-17 04:07:56 <EvanR> right, its usd
299 2010-12-17 04:07:57 <nanotube> i don't think any 'throwing away' of subcents happens... though the site doesn't display all 8.
300 2010-12-17 04:07:59 <ArtForz> and in/out is limited to 0.01
301 2010-12-17 04:08:13 <ArtForz> yep, it displays rounded amounts, but internally keeps more precision
302 2010-12-17 04:08:36 <EvanR> mtgox makes money/
303 2010-12-17 04:08:44 <kiba> yes
304 2010-12-17 04:08:47 <nanotube> presumably.
305 2010-12-17 04:08:53 <ArtForz> I'd hope so
306 2010-12-17 04:08:55 <kiba> a little money probably
307 2010-12-17 04:09:05 <nanotube> EvanR: it takes 0.65% off each side of the tx, so 1.3% times the volume is mtgox's take
308 2010-12-17 04:09:11 <ArtForz> erm... no
309 2010-12-17 04:09:16 <kiba> mtgox have incentive to build ancillary service to increase the amount of volume
310 2010-12-17 04:09:25 <ArtForz> afaict only takes 0.65% once
311 2010-12-17 04:09:40 <nanotube> ArtForz: so it takes 0.325 from each side, then?
312 2010-12-17 04:09:54 <ArtForz> I'm not 100% sure
313 2010-12-17 04:10:02 <nanotube> hm, well let me look at my account histyr.
314 2010-12-17 04:10:04 <nanotube> history
315 2010-12-17 04:10:11 <ArtForz> I think it charges the seller
316 2010-12-17 04:10:24 <nanotube> seller of bitcoins? or of usd?
317 2010-12-17 04:10:37 <midnightmagic> ? i only ever saw a charge when transferring LR out to an exchanger..?
318 2010-12-17 04:10:41 <ArtForz> seller of bitcoins
319 2010-12-17 04:10:57 <midnightmagic> uh..  well what are you using to sell your BTC art?
320 2010-12-17 04:10:58 <nanotube> ArtForz: mm well, let me see. i have both buy and sells in my history.
321 2010-12-17 04:11:55 <nanotube> ArtForz: ok, so in my recent buy of 101 bitcoins, i ended up with 100.34 bitcoins. so that's definitely a full 0.65% off my side as a buyer.
322 2010-12-17 04:12:06 <ArtForz> then it charges both sides
323 2010-12-17 04:12:25 <ArtForz> sold 720 @ 0.2455, got credited 720 @ 0.2439
324 2010-12-17 04:12:27 <nanotube> so... 1.3% off volume is net take
325 2010-12-17 04:12:38 <nanotube> just as i suspected.
326 2010-12-17 04:12:43 <ArtForz> yup
327 2010-12-17 04:12:50 <nanotube> ;;bc,mtgox
328 2010-12-17 04:12:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.255,"low":0.2222,"vol":14291,"buy":0.241,"sell":0.249,"last":0.249}}
329 2010-12-17 04:12:52 <ArtForz> except imo the math is off
330 2010-12-17 04:13:21 <midnightmagic> LOL, I sold for .246 but it sold for 0.2444, which is a 0.63% on my sell.
331 2010-12-17 04:13:30 <midnightmagic> err..  0.65%
332 2010-12-17 04:13:35 <ArtForz> I'd have to check, but I think he's doing / 1.0065 instead of *0.9935