1 2011-01-01 00:03:49 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: no maximum
  2 2011-01-01 00:03:58 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: keeps increasing, until solution is found
  3 2011-01-01 00:04:08 <devon_hillard> any mean?
  4 2011-01-01 00:04:19 <Diablo-D3> so maybe the y2k bug will happen this year
  5 2011-01-01 00:04:27 <jgarzik> devon_hillard: finding a solution is random
  6 2011-01-01 00:05:37 <Kiba> hmm
  7 2011-01-01 00:05:41 <Kiba> I have 8 shares so far
  8 2011-01-01 00:06:14 <Kiba> the hash rate of netbook ain't worth anything
  9 2011-01-01 00:06:20 <Kiba> ain't worth even a single core
 10 2011-01-01 00:17:45 <fabianhjr> So, whats up?
 11 2011-01-01 00:18:27 <Kiba> the market is repairing itself after the paypal eposide
 12 2011-01-01 00:19:43 <fabianhjr> Which episode? Another fraud attack?
 13 2011-01-01 00:22:49 <fabianhjr> There is the CoinPal thing. Kiba could you elaborate please, I have no clue. xD
 14 2011-01-01 00:26:29 <EvanR> yeah, what?
 15 2011-01-01 00:27:55 <fabianhjr> "the market is repairing itself after the paypal eposide" ~Kiba I guess all damage has been repaired since I didn't even felt it. xD
 16 2011-01-01 00:28:12 <fabianhjr> BoBeR: how are you?
 17 2011-01-01 00:28:48 <devon_hillard> what happened?
 18 2011-01-01 00:29:19 <Kiba> fabianhjr: it's long after the event but repair is still ongoing
 19 2011-01-01 00:29:54 <fabianhjr> Kiba: you mean when MtGox accepted PayPal and got chargeback rapped?
 20 2011-01-01 00:30:09 <Kiba> yay
 21 2011-01-01 00:30:28 <devon_hillard> what does "repair" mean, kiba?
 22 2011-01-01 00:30:46 <Kiba> recovery
 23 2011-01-01 00:31:11 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: getting all those kids and taking all their assests/liquid and give those to MtGox so he returns the PP payment option.
 24 2011-01-01 00:31:34 <Kiba> not going to happen
 25 2011-01-01 00:31:43 <Kiba> his paypal account need to be returned
 26 2011-01-01 00:31:53 <fabianhjr> ? Why? Got frozen?
 27 2011-01-01 00:32:07 <Kiba> for like 150 days
 28 2011-01-01 00:32:27 <fabianhjr> We must return the PP since the majority of people use it. We need a bridge for them to switch over to Bitcoin.
 29 2011-01-01 00:32:33 <fabianhjr> Kiba: WTF????
 30 2011-01-01 00:32:37 <devon_hillard> fabianhjr: is there a blog or forum post about this?
 31 2011-01-01 00:32:42 <fabianhjr> Why so? Any explanation on PP side?
 32 2011-01-01 00:32:48 <devon_hillard> I thought bitcoin transactions can't be overturned
 33 2011-01-01 00:32:51 <Kiba> PP don't do explanation
 34 2011-01-01 00:32:54 <Cusipzzz> PP is terrible. we need a non-chargebackable bridge
 35 2011-01-01 00:33:09 <Kiba> devon_hillard: bitcoin transactions can't be overturned is correct
 36 2011-01-01 00:33:10 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: he got charbacks from PayPal. MtGox operates/is an exchange.
 37 2011-01-01 00:33:30 <devon_hillard> I know mtgox
 38 2011-01-01 00:33:39 <EvanR> paypal sucks
 39 2011-01-01 00:33:58 <EvanR> totally consistent with the fact that most people use it
 40 2011-01-01 00:34:03 <EvanR> as is typical
 41 2011-01-01 00:34:05 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: so you could pay him with PayPal get MtGox USD Credits and bid/ask for Bitcoins.
 42 2011-01-01 00:34:29 <Cusipzzz> you can wire transfer to mtgox
 43 2011-01-01 00:34:30 <EvanR> who accepts paypal?
 44 2011-01-01 00:34:48 <EvanR> besides coinpal
 45 2011-01-01 00:34:58 <Kiba> lot of people in #bitcoin-otc
 46 2011-01-01 00:34:59 <devon_hillard> wire transfers are expensive unless you're doing large sums ($1K multiples)
 47 2011-01-01 00:35:08 <fabianhjr> EvanR: I believe he got an agent who accepts PP for MtGox credits. However, it is complicated and a long procedure.
 48 2011-01-01 00:35:14 <devon_hillard> there is always moneygram, wester union
 49 2011-01-01 00:35:22 <Kiba> fabianhjr: agent?
 50 2011-01-01 00:35:25 <EvanR> fabianhjr: well its not advertised on the site directly
 51 2011-01-01 00:35:36 <Kiba> I thought that process happens through #bitcoin-otc
 52 2011-01-01 00:35:37 <EvanR> moneygram and western union is even worse
 53 2011-01-01 00:36:06 <devon_hillard> but they don't do chargebacks
 54 2011-01-01 00:36:14 <EvanR> they are helluva expensive
 55 2011-01-01 00:36:16 <EvanR> and difficult
 56 2011-01-01 00:36:18 <Cusipzzz> moenygram is only 10$
 57 2011-01-01 00:36:25 <devon_hillard> not really expensive
 58 2011-01-01 00:36:33 <ArtForz> hey
 59 2011-01-01 00:36:38 <EvanR> i guess i didnt get my money through moneygram that one time then
 60 2011-01-01 00:36:39 <ArtForz> LR is cheaper
 61 2011-01-01 00:36:40 <fabianhjr> Kiba: http://bitcoinmorpheus.tumblr.com/post/2301381008/how-to-buy-bitcoin-and-mt-gox-usd-with-cash-in-the
 62 2011-01-01 00:36:47 <EvanR> whatever it was was bullshit
 63 2011-01-01 00:36:49 <devon_hillard> compared to money orders, they are good, especially MG
 64 2011-01-01 00:36:55 <fabianhjr> NVM<. xD
 65 2011-01-01 00:37:56 <Kiba> official agent?
 66 2011-01-01 00:38:14 <devon_hillard> does paypal have a specific policy against virtual goods?
 67 2011-01-01 00:38:24 <fabianhjr> devon_hillard: not really.
 68 2011-01-01 00:38:26 <EvanR> paypal has a policy of pissing sellers off
 69 2011-01-01 00:38:41 <fabianhjr> ^
 70 2011-01-01 00:38:42 <EvanR> since they have no choice but to accept paypal
 71 2011-01-01 00:38:49 <Cusipzzz> and buyers, and anyone who runs into their arbitrary and capricious 'verification review'
 72 2011-01-01 00:38:53 <devon_hillard> the only time I sent someone some money through paypal, I was delayed 2 weeks and blocked
 73 2011-01-01 00:39:05 <Kiba> fraud detection
 74 2011-01-01 00:39:19 <Kiba> their detection mechanism is overkill
 75 2011-01-01 00:39:38 <fabianhjr> All the time I had sent people Bitcoins. Wait, it just works!^tm
 76 2011-01-01 00:40:02 <EvanR> yes but we are more careful right, so we dont get scammed as easily
 77 2011-01-01 00:40:13 <EvanR> so its like internet money advanced mode
 78 2011-01-01 00:40:27 <EvanR> use at your own risk
 79 2011-01-01 00:40:48 <devon_hillard> Is it worth for people like mtgox to get a CC merchant account?
 80 2011-01-01 00:41:26 <EvanR> visa and mastercard will rip you off
 81 2011-01-01 00:41:53 <ArtForz> the fees are pretty bad, and you still have the problem of chargebacks
 82 2011-01-01 00:41:58 <devon_hillard> some companies provide payment systems with APIs
 83 2011-01-01 00:42:55 <devon_hillard> hm... amazon credit
 84 2011-01-01 00:50:45 <cervanto> hny
 85 2011-01-01 00:52:35 <cervanto> merry bitsmas
 86 2011-01-01 00:53:33 <devon_hillard> SHA256(happy_new_year)
 87 2011-01-01 01:13:47 <fabianhjr_> Kiba: got my last message?
 88 2011-01-01 01:14:04 <Kiba> last what?
 89 2011-01-01 01:15:26 <fabianhjr> Kiba: I am filling a pledge for an open source alternative to Kickstarter using Bitcoins.
 90 2011-01-01 01:15:55 <Kiba> where?
 91 2011-01-01 01:16:52 <fabianhjr> Kiba: Project Development forum :P DuH!
 92 2011-01-01 01:17:19 <Kiba> which one?
 93 2011-01-01 01:17:42 <fabianhjr> Ours xD bitcoin.org #Project Developemnt. I am still creating the thread.
 94 2011-01-01 01:17:55 <devon_hillard> can you set up a bank account to refuse chargebacks from paypal?
 95 2011-01-01 01:18:36 <devon_hillard> some banks offer one-time-use credit cards
 96 2011-01-01 01:26:16 <lfm> grocery stores and wal-marts are known to sell one-time visa and master card too
 97 2011-01-01 01:26:54 <Cusipzzz> can they be chafrged back ?
 98 2011-01-01 01:27:33 <lfm> not sure, if so I imagine thats be hard
 99 2011-01-01 01:27:49 <Cusipzzz> ya, but as long as it's possible, not very safe.
100 2011-01-01 01:28:49 <Cusipzzz> would love to see grocery stores carry 'Verified $ cards' - no chargebacks, no limits like some other prepaid cards (cannot be used some foreign merchants/gambling sites, etc)
101 2011-01-01 01:29:02 <Cusipzzz> but would prob be shut down for funding terrorism
102 2011-01-01 01:30:14 <fabianhjr> lol, lets hope then than the govs and big corps don't notice Bitcoin until it is too late.
103 2011-01-01 01:31:34 <Cusipzzz> they will notice sadly. give it time.
104 2011-01-01 01:35:55 <EvanR> anyone here could be a cia spy
105 2011-01-01 01:36:59 <fabianhjr> Cusipzzz: if BTC gets to a point were it is mainstream they will have a hard time shutting it down.
106 2011-01-01 01:37:39 <fabianhjr> EvanR: I don't care. What can t6hey do about it? As long as 2 nodes exists they didn't shut it down. They have a low influence down here in Mexico and I am sure it will survive.
107 2011-01-01 01:38:18 <EvanR> lol 2 nodes
108 2011-01-01 01:39:07 <Cusipzzz> much to do to really secure it. Ports/IPs could be shut down/DOS'd
109 2011-01-01 01:39:17 <EvanR> assuming they arent in US, they could run 20 and make the 2 irrelevant
110 2011-01-01 01:39:37 <Cusipzzz> need to create a new crypo secure way of finding peers.
111 2011-01-01 01:43:03 <ArtForz> you can't really protect against malicious peers without a WoT style setup aka darknet
112 2011-01-01 01:44:44 <jgarzik> MadHatter's virtual service is oh-so-close
113 2011-01-01 01:44:47 <Cusipzzz> can be made harder than just vanilla IP/Ports
114 2011-01-01 01:45:15 <jgarzik> how hard can it be to do your own cards, I wonder?  Be nice to make a slice of that per-charge fee.
115 2011-01-01 01:45:47 <Cusipzzz> in the immortal words of Ice Cube - pimpin' aint easy.
116 2011-01-01 01:48:05 <Cusipzzz> maybe it was Ice-T...
117 2011-01-01 01:48:28 <EvanR> you can make your own cards, no visa
118 2011-01-01 01:48:39 <EvanR> you just have to choice a card network
119 2011-01-01 01:48:52 <EvanR> english
120 2011-01-01 01:48:58 <EvanR> you have to join a card network
121 2011-01-01 01:53:06 <Kiba`> nightie night
122 2011-01-01 01:53:19 <EvanR> this gift card was made by BAM card services
123 2011-01-01 01:53:23 <EvanR> LLC
124 2011-01-01 01:53:33 <EvanR> look them up
125 2011-01-01 01:54:39 <fabianhjr> Kiba`: good night
126 2011-01-01 01:54:59 <Cusipzzz> BAM BAM
127 2011-01-01 01:55:17 <EvanR> wholy owned subsidiary of books a million
128 2011-01-01 01:55:24 <Cusipzzz> ah
129 2011-01-01 01:55:38 <Cusipzzz> thought it was Emeril's compnay
130 2011-01-01 01:55:41 <EvanR> lol
131 2011-01-01 01:56:17 <EvanR> must be nice to have a company sell you stuff at cost because you own it
132 2011-01-01 02:00:47 <fabianhjr> If anyone is interested in a crowdfunding service(Open source) then have a look at: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2558.0
133 2011-01-01 02:00:49 <bitbot> Bitcoin Crowdfunding(Open Source) - Pledge 5 BTC
134 2011-01-01 02:01:14 <fabianhjr> An example of crowdfunding is KickStarter.com
135 2011-01-01 02:13:07 <fabianhjr> So, anybody interested?
136 2011-01-01 02:18:40 <fabianhjr> Why is the channel suddenly so quiet? >_>
137 2011-01-01 02:20:39 <Cusipzzz> sleeping..
138 2011-01-01 02:39:35 <AAA_awright> Partying in #freenode-newyears
139 2011-01-01 02:49:21 <mizerydearia> Using the output from listtransactions method, how can I use the txid as input to determine which bitcoin address was sent to or received with?
140 2011-01-01 02:49:40 <mizerydearia> Or, more smiply, with txid as input, can I return associated bitcoin address?
141 2011-01-01 02:52:43 <mizerydearia> gettransaction method only outputs amount, fee, confirmations, duplicated txid and timestamp
142 2011-01-01 02:54:09 <mizerydearia> listreceivedbyaddress method outputs address, account, label, amount, confirmations
143 2011-01-01 02:55:03 <mizerydearia> Therefore it doesn't seem that I can identify that information and use it to provide a web-based ui producing the same information made available in the Bitcoin gui.
144 2011-01-01 02:55:16 <mizerydearia> e.g. Description column.
145 2011-01-01 02:56:13 <Cusipzzz> you are trying to find address by transaction ID ?
146 2011-01-01 02:57:57 <mizerydearia> e.g. if the transaction was credit (bitcoins sent to me) then I would like to resolve the bitcoin address that the bitcoins were send to by referencing the txid.  otherwise if the transaction was debit (bitcoins I sent to another) then I would like to resolve the bitcoin address that I sent to by referencing the txid.
147 2011-01-01 03:00:12 <Cusipzzz> blockexplorer ?
148 2011-01-01 03:10:53 <mizerydearia> hmm, I see that block explorer does indicate which bitcoin address the transaction was sent to.  That is the information I am looking to find out how to resolve.
149 2011-01-01 03:15:33 <Cusipzzz> not sure how to do it straight from bitcoind
150 2011-01-01 03:16:25 <mizerydearia> I think a patch to make it a method available to provide that information would be useful.
151 2011-01-01 03:16:57 <mizerydearia> However, perhaps such a patch already exists?
152 2011-01-01 03:17:10 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=list_of_patches
153 2011-01-01 03:21:36 <Cusipzzz> not sure i see the value of it.. why would you have tx number, but not the recvd address??
154 2011-01-01 03:31:39 <mizerydearia> Cusipzzz, Well, execing listtransactions("*", -1) returns all transactions from wallet file.  However the data returned does not indicate address.
155 2011-01-01 03:32:14 <mizerydearia> listtransactions method outputs the txid.
156 2011-01-01 03:53:31 <luke-jr_> has anyone complained that bitcoin is terribly broken lately?
157 2011-01-01 03:54:46 <luke-jr_> I can't manage to get this mess to compile at all -.-
158 2011-01-01 03:57:19 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, What distro?
159 2011-01-01 03:57:43 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: Gentoo
160 2011-01-01 03:57:53 <luke-jr_> amd64 stable
161 2011-01-01 03:57:53 <mizerydearia> ooh, nice
162 2011-01-01 03:58:00 <mizerydearia> I have a gentoo ebuild I prepared
163 2011-01-01 03:58:12 <luke-jr_> should I hide? >_<
164 2011-01-01 03:58:51 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, See https://github.com/mizerydearia/bitcoin_gentoo_ebuild and try bitcoin-git
165 2011-01-01 03:59:07 <mizerydearia> Related discussion @ http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=930.0
166 2011-01-01 03:59:09 <bitbot> Gentoo Linux Ebuild
167 2011-01-01 04:00:22 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: if bitcoin switched to git at some point, someone should link it on the website
168 2011-01-01 04:00:32 <luke-jr_> I only came up with a Subversion repo on SourceForge
169 2011-01-01 04:00:39 <mizerydearia> It didn't, but I am using gavin's repo from http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
170 2011-01-01 04:00:50 <mizerydearia> It's a staging repository
171 2011-01-01 04:00:54 <luke-jr_> &
172 2011-01-01 04:00:58 <mizerydearia> for patches, etc that will soon become live.
173 2011-01-01 04:01:01 <mizerydearia> in official release
174 2011-01-01 04:01:14 <luke-jr_> so my branch off Subversion should be fine?
175 2011-01-01 04:01:50 <luke-jr_> x11-libs/wxGTK:2.9
176 2011-01-01 04:01:56 <luke-jr_> that dep isn't stable
177 2011-01-01 04:01:56 <mizerydearia> well, the net-p2p/bitcoin (which uses subversion) I haven't updated in a while and doesn't work as far as I have tested.
178 2011-01-01 04:02:42 <mizerydearia> Particularly I wanted to apply some patches that haven't been updated with subversion release, but have been included in gavin's git repository.
179 2011-01-01 04:02:43 <luke-jr_> (I also generally refuse to use anything GTK, but was going to ignore that just for testing)
180 2011-01-01 04:02:57 <mizerydearia> I wasn't able to repatch for svn and instead switched using gavin's repo.
181 2011-01-01 04:03:10 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, You can use flags to prevent the gui from compiling and only build the daemon
182 2011-01-01 04:03:15 <mizerydearia> useflags
183 2011-01-01 04:03:28 <luke-jr_> is the daemon usable?
184 2011-01-01 04:03:38 <mizerydearia> yep
185 2011-01-01 04:03:45 <luke-jr_> like for a human
186 2011-01-01 04:03:51 <mizerydearia> By default, the daemon only is compiled
187 2011-01-01 04:03:54 <mizerydearia> Yep, like for a human
188 2011-01-01 04:04:13 <mizerydearia> See http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
189 2011-01-01 04:05:23 <mizerydearia> Additionally I just released and am still working on a web based user interface control panel type of project: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2546.msg34565#msg34565
190 2011-01-01 04:05:25 <bitbot> Bitcoin Control Panel : mizerydearia: Bitcoin Control Panel  I would like to prepare this initial code offering for wide adoption.  I am uncertain if it is a best implementation, but it is functional and minimal in design.  For the moment, a PHP-based server-side backend is made available, however, I would additionally like to expand this particular project to account fo...
191 2011-01-01 04:11:07 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, If you are interested in mining, check out http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1458.0
192 2011-01-01 04:11:09 <bitbot> Pooled/Remote Mining - Open Source - Updated 2010-12-24
193 2011-01-01 04:11:34 <mizerydearia> Wait
194 2011-01-01 04:11:36 <mizerydearia> wrong thread
195 2011-01-01 04:12:32 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1976.0
196 2011-01-01 04:12:34 <bitbot> Cooperative mining (>4000Mhash/s, join us!)
197 2011-01-01 04:31:43 <luke-jr_> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.4.4/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lcrypto++
198 2011-01-01 04:35:25 <mizerydearia> hmm
199 2011-01-01 04:38:42 <mizerydearia> well in that case, http://pastebin.com/zBk3gaa5
200 2011-01-01 04:38:57 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, the makefile provided with official svn release is not compatible (by default) with gentoo systems.
201 2011-01-01 04:39:07 <luke-jr_> I stole your makefile.gentoo
202 2011-01-01 04:39:11 <mizerydearia> hmm
203 2011-01-01 04:39:37 <mizerydearia> Although
204 2011-01-01 04:39:54 <mizerydearia> If you comment the lines for patches in the net-p2p/bitcoin ebuild, then it should compile just fine
205 2011-01-01 04:40:56 <mizerydearia> bitcoin-9999.ebuild, that is
206 2011-01-01 04:44:08 <fabianhjr> If anybody is interested I am pledging for a crowdfunding FOSS bitcoin website. http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2558.0
207 2011-01-01 04:44:09 <bitbot> Bitcoin Crowdfunding(Open Source) - Pledge 7 BTC
208 2011-01-01 04:44:37 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: so where is libcrypt++ supposed to come from?
209 2011-01-01 04:45:09 <mizerydearia> dev-libs/crypto++ I believe
210 2011-01-01 04:45:26 <luke-jr_> sigh
211 2011-01-01 04:45:41 <luke-jr_> why can't it be a simple CLI app without any unusual deps? -.-
212 2011-01-01 04:45:46 <mizerydearia> I am not sure if you compile from source, but using the ebuild should work.
213 2011-01-01 04:45:54 <luke-jr_> standard autoconf or cmake and stuff
214 2011-01-01 04:46:01 <mizerydearia> hmm, is crypto++ unusual dependency?
215 2011-01-01 04:46:11 <luke-jr_> yes
216 2011-01-01 04:46:22 <luke-jr_> nothing else I've ever used requires it
217 2011-01-01 04:46:49 <mizerydearia> mm, I am not sure.  When I set out to prepare the ebuild I did so only because nobody else has taken initiative and I was the first gentoo user.  However, I am not experienced in preparing ebuilds or compiling.
218 2011-01-01 04:47:32 <mizerydearia> You're welcome to expand upon the ebuild and make it better if you're interested.
219 2011-01-01 04:47:40 <mizerydearia> e.g. remove the dependency
220 2011-01-01 04:47:44 <luke-jr_> &
221 2011-01-01 04:47:54 <luke-jr_> it's required by the code.
222 2011-01-01 04:48:12 <luke-jr_> it won't compile without it
223 2011-01-01 04:51:14 <mizerydearia> tcatm, Are you familiar with why bitcoin makes use of or requires libcrypt++?  Or ArtForz?
224 2011-01-01 04:52:09 <mizerydearia> In all of ebuilds in portage, only net-irc/kvirc  and net-p2p/amule use that library.
225 2011-01-01 04:52:25 <mizerydearia> http://pastebin.com/B0yXVvTd
226 2011-01-01 04:52:32 <ArtForz> weird
227 2011-01-01 04:52:48 <ArtForz> I dont think we depend on external libcrypto++
228 2011-01-01 04:52:52 <mizerydearia> Oh?
229 2011-01-01 04:52:56 <luke-jr_> &&&..
230 2011-01-01 04:53:02 <mizerydearia> Well then..
231 2011-01-01 04:53:14 <luke-jr_> internal libs are far far worse
232 2011-01-01 04:53:16 <mizerydearia> Perhaps it is specific to my ebuild and it requires a fix
233 2011-01-01 04:53:19 <luke-jr_> that's just terrible programming practices
234 2011-01-01 04:53:52 <mizerydearia> Well, that may be related to Satoshi-style of programming
235 2011-01-01 04:53:53 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: maybe next year :
236 2011-01-01 04:54:00 <mizerydearia> heh, I can't wait another 6 minutes
237 2011-01-01 04:54:07 <mizerydearia> I want it NAO!
238 2011-01-01 04:54:15 <mizerydearia> oh, you're from the future?
239 2011-01-01 04:54:25 <luke-jr_> &
240 2011-01-01 04:55:14 <luke-jr_> what I mean is, maybe a year from now, bitcoin will be sanely usable, and I can accept your bitcoin
241 2011-01-01 04:55:23 <mizerydearia> sanely?
242 2011-01-01 04:55:26 <luke-jr_> but for now, it's too broken for me
243 2011-01-01 04:55:39 <mizerydearia> I believe it is sanely usable at this moment
244 2011-01-01 04:55:40 <ArtForz> I'd say yes
245 2011-01-01 04:55:48 <mizerydearia> ah, it is broken?
246 2011-01-01 04:55:54 <luke-jr_> yeah, standard ./configure&&make or cmake or something else similar
247 2011-01-01 04:55:59 <mizerydearia> mm, I see
248 2011-01-01 04:56:01 <luke-jr_> without a bunch of weird deps
249 2011-01-01 04:56:02 <luke-jr_> etc
250 2011-01-01 04:56:05 <mizerydearia> That makes sense
251 2011-01-01 04:56:15 <mizerydearia> In terms of compiling, so sanely compilable
252 2011-01-01 04:56:24 <mizerydearia> But once it's compiled correctly, the client itself is sanely usable
253 2011-01-01 04:56:27 <ArtForz> we only use the partial libcryptopp we carry around a for sha256, stock links that statically
254 2011-01-01 04:56:33 <luke-jr_> well, I can tell you off the bat that there is *no way* Gentoo will accept your ebuild ;)
255 2011-01-01 04:56:37 <luke-jr_> they like simple only
256 2011-01-01 04:56:41 <mizerydearia> Of course
257 2011-01-01 04:56:45 <mizerydearia> I haven't submitted it as of yet
258 2011-01-01 04:56:49 <mizerydearia> Besides
259 2011-01-01 04:57:01 <mizerydearia> My ebuild focuses on pulling from repo instead of versioned releases
260 2011-01-01 04:57:18 <mizerydearia> Otherwise BioMike / myckel has contributed some versioned ebuild releases
261 2011-01-01 04:57:29 <ArtForz> iirc we dont use system libcrypto for anything
262 2011-01-01 04:57:41 <luke-jr_> maybe in a year there will be a nice Qt port
263 2011-01-01 04:57:59 <mizerydearia> Perhaps you could help to make that happen?
264 2011-01-01 04:58:04 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: no time 9
265 2011-01-01 04:58:15 <luke-jr_> and I still see this as monetary exchange of wasted CPU cycles :P
266 2011-01-01 04:59:46 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=203.msg2021#msg2021
267 2011-01-01 04:59:49 <bitbot> Wasted Computations and Grid Computing : Bitcoiner: It does seem kind of wasteful that bitcoin relies on the consumption of resources in order to achieve its properties as a store of value. Once all bitcoins have been generated, will it continue to consume a great deal of resources?  I think that this could be one technical source of a downfall would it ever to become hi...
268 2011-01-01 05:00:36 <luke-jr_> consumption is one thing. waste is another.
269 2011-01-01 05:02:05 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, What would you suggest as an alternative that wouldn't be considered a waste?
270 2011-01-01 05:02:28 <luke-jr_> computing something useful? shrug
271 2011-01-01 05:02:30 <fabianhjr> Happy new year from mexico City. 2011 here already. :D
272 2011-01-01 05:02:37 <mizerydearia> Well, in terms of creating a currency
273 2011-01-01 05:02:39 <luke-jr_> I don't really understand the whole process
274 2011-01-01 05:02:43 <ArtForz> wasted?
275 2011-01-01 05:02:56 <lfm> money is usefull
276 2011-01-01 05:03:17 <luke-jr_> from what I read, it sounds like the sole purpose of the computation is to be slow
277 2011-01-01 05:03:39 <lfm> the whole purpose is to be useful
278 2011-01-01 05:06:48 <lfm> its not slow, it is very fast. 1000s of computations every second
279 2011-01-01 05:08:29 <mizerydearia> There were a few points in which computation performance has been improved originally with the introduction of the -4way switch and then additionally with idea of gpu mining.
280 2011-01-01 05:08:38 <lfm> the only way to find the good ones is to check a lot of bad ones. you have to be fast
281 2011-01-01 05:10:19 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=running_bitcoin
282 2011-01-01 05:10:35 <mizerydearia> oh, I see the -4way switch isn't listed there
283 2011-01-01 05:10:39 <lfm> are you still there luke_jr?
284 2011-01-01 05:10:42 <luke-jr_> yes
285 2011-01-01 05:11:09 <mizerydearia> and also it appears the -4way switch has been deprecated?
286 2011-01-01 05:11:30 <lfm> mizery ya 4way is mostly automatic now
287 2011-01-01 05:11:42 <mizerydearia> gah, I missed a lot of activity while I was gone periodically
288 2011-01-01 05:12:36 <ArtForz> yup, tunnel is down
289 2011-01-01 05:12:47 <luke-jr_> put it this way
290 2011-01-01 05:13:02 <luke-jr_> bitcoins have no value, except what other people attribute to them
291 2011-01-01 05:13:06 <mizerydearia> Yep
292 2011-01-01 05:13:11 <mizerydearia> Same with all other currencies
293 2011-01-01 05:13:13 <luke-jr_> no
294 2011-01-01 05:13:18 <luke-jr_> gold is *actually* useful
295 2011-01-01 05:13:20 <luke-jr_> food too
296 2011-01-01 05:13:29 <fabianhjr> Those are no currencies xD
297 2011-01-01 05:13:31 <lfm> money of all type has no value except what other people attibute to it
298 2011-01-01 05:13:39 <luke-jr_> fabianhjr: sure they are. definitely gold.
299 2011-01-01 05:14:08 <fabianhjr> Sure whatever. I will just eat this apple and not think of eating 1 Dollar.
300 2011-01-01 05:14:13 <lfm> gold has a small industrial value. besides that it is just what people will pay for it
301 2011-01-01 05:14:23 <ArtForz> errr... gold doesnt really have any major use besides being shiny and pretty inert
302 2011-01-01 05:14:24 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2046.20
303 2011-01-01 05:14:26 <bitbot> Should money have intrisic value ?
304 2011-01-01 05:14:26 <lfm> gold and diamonds
305 2011-01-01 05:14:47 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=583.0
306 2011-01-01 05:14:49 <bitbot> Bitcoin does NOT violate Mises' Regression Theorem
307 2011-01-01 05:14:50 <fabianhjr> ArtForz: it's property is demanded for high performance uses such as racing and spacecrafts.
308 2011-01-01 05:14:53 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: conducts electricity and doesn't rust?
309 2011-01-01 05:15:12 <lfm> it would be wastefull to use something valuable for just money
310 2011-01-01 05:15:20 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=382.0
311 2011-01-01 05:15:21 <bitbot> The economics of Bitcoin: How does it work?
312 2011-01-01 05:15:29 <ArtForz> yeah, but you dont need a whole lot of it for that
313 2011-01-01 05:15:43 <bitbot> Quit making me spam the chan please, kthxbai
314 2011-01-01 05:16:38 <lfm> whats a kthxbai?
315 2011-01-01 05:17:03 <mizerydearia> Variation of 'kthxbye' - the internet bastardization of "OK, thank you, goodbye".
316 2011-01-01 05:17:06 <fabianhjr> Good Night
317 2011-01-01 05:18:10 <lfm> should be hyphenized
318 2011-01-01 05:18:49 <luke-jr_> a valueless currency depends on acceptance to gain a value&
319 2011-01-01 05:18:57 <mizerydearia> 31,000 google image results for kthxbye, 48,000 image results for kthxbai
320 2011-01-01 05:18:59 <lfm> ya so
321 2011-01-01 05:19:26 <luke-jr_> so if nobody accepts it, it will never have value
322 2011-01-01 05:19:33 <lfm> ya so
323 2011-01-01 05:19:36 <luke-jr_> and if it doesn't have value, nobody has any reason to accept it
324 2011-01-01 05:19:42 <luke-jr_> chicken & egg
325 2011-01-01 05:19:45 <ArtForz> yeah, lucky somebody accepts it
326 2011-01-01 05:19:53 <lfm> but if someone accepts it it will have value
327 2011-01-01 05:19:53 <mizerydearia> I accept it
328 2011-01-01 05:20:02 <lfm> me too
329 2011-01-01 05:20:09 <mizerydearia> and lately I haven't been so acceptant of usd
330 2011-01-01 05:20:10 <luke-jr_> where can I pay taxes in bitcoins?
331 2011-01-01 05:20:12 <lfm> so it works
332 2011-01-01 05:20:26 <lfm> bitcoiniana
333 2011-01-01 05:20:30 <ArtForz> where can I pay my taxes in gold?
334 2011-01-01 05:20:30 <lucky> there's no such thing as intrinsic value
335 2011-01-01 05:20:37 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: anywhere
336 2011-01-01 05:20:42 <mizerydearia> bitcoinania?
337 2011-01-01 05:21:00 <lucky> and 1/2 the gold mined in the world today goes into electronics.
338 2011-01-01 05:21:03 <ArtForz> meep, wrong
339 2011-01-01 05:21:06 <mizerydearia> ah, liek louisiana
340 2011-01-01 05:21:26 <luke-jr_> ArtForz: I've never had the IRS turn me down with gold
341 2011-01-01 05:22:03 <blacknode> hi
342 2011-01-01 05:22:06 <ArtForz> 50% of mined gold goes into ... jewelery
343 2011-01-01 05:22:09 <lfm> hi
344 2011-01-01 05:22:20 <ArtForz> most of the rest goes to investment
345 2011-01-01 05:22:33 <blacknode> i am new kwon bitcoin currency
346 2011-01-01 05:22:37 <ArtForz> industrial use was <5% last time I checked
347 2011-01-01 05:22:43 <blacknode> and for me is exellent!
348 2011-01-01 05:22:46 <lfm> half the jewelery goes into investment
349 2011-01-01 05:22:46 <mizerydearia> http://sawaal.ibibo.com/personal-finance-and-tax/what-percentage-gold-used-jewellery-industry-investment-461738.html
350 2011-01-01 05:22:51 <blacknode> and for my nation
351 2011-01-01 05:22:52 <luke-jr_> ok, so more practical question:
352 2011-01-01 05:23:00 <luke-jr_> if I accept bitcoin, how can I pay my expenses with it
353 2011-01-01 05:23:08 <luke-jr_> or convert it to currency that I can pay expenses with?
354 2011-01-01 05:23:12 <lucky> mizerydearia, mm ok.
355 2011-01-01 05:23:21 <lucky> I seem to be ignoring the jewellery part :p
356 2011-01-01 05:23:28 <blacknode> how to run bitcoin client in 64 bits windows xp64 and run with my video card nvidia gts 240?
357 2011-01-01 05:23:29 <lfm> luke-jr exchange it for $ at mtgox.com
358 2011-01-01 05:23:31 <luke-jr_> pretty sure in the end, I'm stuck with nothing more than a bunch of numbers
359 2011-01-01 05:23:47 <lucky> luke-jr_, by selling bitcoin for currency, just like trading any other currency, or by selling it for other products like any other currency.
360 2011-01-01 05:23:55 <lfm> $ are just numbers too
361 2011-01-01 05:24:04 <blacknode> how to run bitcoin client in 64 bits windows xp64 and run with my video card nvidia gts 240?
362 2011-01-01 05:24:05 <lucky> of course somewhat more widely accepted numbers.
363 2011-01-01 05:24:24 <luke-jr_> lfm: except I can pay bills in $
364 2011-01-01 05:24:40 <lfm> us $ are more accepted than cdn $ too doesnt mean cdn $ arnt real
365 2011-01-01 05:24:40 <mizerydearia> for now, yes, and gradually as time goes on more are accepting bitcoins
366 2011-01-01 05:24:53 <mizerydearia> luke-jr_, usd wasn't accepted as it was first introduced.  acceptance was gradual
367 2011-01-01 05:25:01 <luke-jr_> mizerydearia: yes it was
368 2011-01-01 05:25:10 <luke-jr_> there was a handy thing called a law
369 2011-01-01 05:25:14 <luke-jr_> that said everyone had to accept it
370 2011-01-01 05:25:32 <lfm> theres laws about btc too, sez they are illegal
371 2011-01-01 05:25:50 <ArtForz> says who?
372 2011-01-01 05:25:50 <lfm> that makes em more valuable to some people
373 2011-01-01 05:25:57 <blacknode> any can help me please! :$
374 2011-01-01 05:26:04 <blacknode> how to run bitcoin client in 64 bits windows xp64 and run with my video card nvidia gts 240?
375 2011-01-01 05:26:05 <lucky> It's arguable, but I suspect it's probably illegal in most countries, in the end, as well.
376 2011-01-01 05:26:15 <lucky> blacknode, the forum has info, look into "gpu mining"
377 2011-01-01 05:26:32 <blacknode> thanks lucky
378 2011-01-01 05:26:35 <lfm> and cdn $ arnt legal in us
379 2011-01-01 05:26:42 <lucky> yes, they are.
380 2011-01-01 05:26:57 <luke-jr_> so what happens if I buy bitcoins on credit card, then dispute the charge? :p
381 2011-01-01 05:26:58 <lucky> they're not legal tender, but they're not illegal in themselves in any way.
382 2011-01-01 05:27:13 <lucky> luke-jr_, the same sort of fraud offence that occurs with fraudulently reversing any charge.
383 2011-01-01 05:27:42 <luke-jr_> lucky: not quite, if BTC are considered illegal
384 2011-01-01 05:27:54 <mizerydearia> As of right now there is no legality precedence
385 2011-01-01 05:28:02 <luke-jr_> not even Liberty Dollar?
386 2011-01-01 05:28:04 <lucky> there's zero precedent other than some small-time currencies
387 2011-01-01 05:28:10 <lucky> I suspect the currency issue is not the main thing
388 2011-01-01 05:28:19 <lfm> if btc are illegal for your country then you go to jail for trying to buy em, even if you deny it later
389 2011-01-01 05:28:33 <lucky> the ability to easily launder money will be what sinks it long before BTC grows big enough to worry central governments about losing control of currency issueance.
390 2011-01-01 05:28:50 <mizerydearia> that is a theory for now lucky
391 2011-01-01 05:28:58 <lucky> yes, it's just my opinion.
392 2011-01-01 05:29:12 <ArtForz> it's up to the exchangers to follow KYC laws
393 2011-01-01 05:29:18 <mizerydearia> know your customer
394 2011-01-01 05:29:30 <luke-jr_> anyhow, let me know when there's a sane client to use
395 2011-01-01 05:29:35 <luke-jr_> I need to be getting to bed
396 2011-01-01 05:30:23 <lfm> ok bye
397 2011-01-01 05:30:53 <lucky> I only deal in absurdly small sums (> 10 EUR/CHF/CAD/USD per transaction) precisely to avoid any trouble
398 2011-01-01 05:30:55 <mizerydearia> In the meantime, has anyone noticed the bitcoin control panel development I designed?
399 2011-01-01 05:31:03 <lucky> also it'd be stupid to snail mail $50,000 in an envelope.
400 2011-01-01 05:31:45 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2546
401 2011-01-01 05:31:47 <bitbot> Bitcoin Control Panel
402 2011-01-01 05:32:01 <mizerydearia> For some reason I think it will be very useful, but I may be biased and it may be useless.
403 2011-01-01 05:32:46 <lucky> purty, Linux-specific looking just from skimming the readme.
404 2011-01-01 05:32:59 <mizerydearia> php-specific
405 2011-01-01 05:33:11 <mizerydearia> the one linux-specific exec command isn't necessary
406 2011-01-01 05:33:16 <lucky> $cpus = shell_exec("grep processor /proc/cpuinfo|wc -l");
407 2011-01-01 05:33:18 <mizerydearia> yeah
408 2011-01-01 05:33:27 <lucky> will break on BSD, etc.
409 2011-01-01 05:33:36 <mizerydearia> mm
410 2011-01-01 05:33:41 <mizerydearia> I can fix that.
411 2011-01-01 05:33:57 <mizerydearia> I didn't prepare the initial release to account for other platforms, but it will be fixed/improved.
412 2011-01-01 05:34:15 <mizerydearia> That is the only linux-specific line
413 2011-01-01 05:34:19 <lucky> (I can't test it otherwise :P)
414 2011-01-01 05:34:29 <mizerydearia> You can comment the line ^_^
415 2011-01-01 05:34:33 <lucky> >:(
416 2011-01-01 05:34:36 <mizerydearia> aww
417 2011-01-01 05:34:39 <lucky> hehe
418 2011-01-01 05:34:44 <mizerydearia> shall I comment it for you and push update to repository?
419 2011-01-01 05:34:55 <lfm> shell_exec()?
420 2011-01-01 05:34:57 <mizerydearia> yep
421 2011-01-01 05:35:51 <mizerydearia> I wanted to extra the value for number of processors running in the system so that it can be made available for the setgenerate method
422 2011-01-01 05:36:05 <mizerydearia> for [genproclimit] optional parameter
423 2011-01-01 05:36:36 <mizerydearia> For the moment the code produces a restrictive selectbox from -1 to [genproclimit]
424 2011-01-01 05:36:47 <mizerydearia> However I can instead change the code to provide a textbox for user input
425 2011-01-01 05:36:53 <mizerydearia> and then remove the shell_exec
426 2011-01-01 05:37:31 <mizerydearia> That may be better and alleviate the need to offer support for other o/s environments.
427 2011-01-01 05:38:10 <lfm> xx=$(grep processor /proc/cpuinfo|wc -l)
428 2011-01-01 05:38:16 <lfm> echo $xx
429 2011-01-01 05:38:51 <mizerydearia> ah, nice
430 2011-01-01 05:39:15 <mizerydearia> Although, php doesn't have a grep function
431 2011-01-01 05:39:27 <mizerydearia> I can read from the file, however.
432 2011-01-01 05:39:28 <mizerydearia> Good idea.
433 2011-01-01 05:39:38 <mizerydearia> an obvious one that I overlooked.
434 2011-01-01 05:51:30 <mizerydearia> lfm, thanks for suggestion
435 2011-01-01 05:54:25 <mizerydearia> Actually, I included the "transactions" page also.  It's incomplete, but I'd like to prepare it to resemble the gui transactions view.  However, I am not certain how to obtain the bitcoin address associated with a particular transaction.
436 2011-01-01 05:54:45 <mizerydearia> Does anyone know if it is possible?
437 2011-01-01 05:54:53 <davout> hi
438 2011-01-01 05:55:03 <mizerydearia> hi
439 2011-01-01 05:55:16 <bitbot> hi
440 2011-01-01 05:56:41 <davout> are you making that bitcoin client web interface?
441 2011-01-01 05:57:04 <mizerydearia> Yep,.
442 2011-01-01 05:57:29 <davout> so, your pb is to get receiving addresses if i understand
443 2011-01-01 05:57:50 <davout> isn't this in the listtransactions output ?
444 2011-01-01 05:58:16 <mizerydearia> Yeah, using listtransactions I can get confirmations, time, amount, fee and txid, but no address
445 2011-01-01 05:58:25 <mizerydearia> I imagine I will have to trigger another call providing txid as input
446 2011-01-01 05:58:46 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=api
447 2011-01-01 05:59:03 <mizerydearia> listtransactions doesn't output address
448 2011-01-01 05:59:47 <mizerydearia> I noticed that http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MCwBbhNGp5hRm5rC1Aims2YFRe2SXPYKt does show that information
449 2011-01-01 05:59:53 <mizerydearia> but I am not entirely sure how that data is obtained.
450 2011-01-01 06:00:19 <mizerydearia> or http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f7f3ee44209dba5766be5e8697ea13bafdddc77699c71b262d4fda0cc0922ba2#o0
451 2011-01-01 06:00:29 <davout> listreceivedbyaddress
452 2011-01-01 06:00:41 <davout> isn't there a gettransaction call ?
453 2011-01-01 06:00:57 <mizerydearia> There is, however it doesn't show that information either
454 2011-01-01 06:01:02 <davout> there was discussion /w gavin about that
455 2011-01-01 06:01:18 <davout> and the fact a tx can credit multiple addresses at the same time
456 2011-01-01 06:01:47 <mizerydearia> gettransaction only shows amount, fee, confirmations, txid and time
457 2011-01-01 06:02:57 <davout> ok
458 2011-01-01 06:03:00 <davout> here we go
459 2011-01-01 06:03:03 <davout> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2404.0
460 2011-01-01 06:03:05 <bitbot> [PULL REQUEST] add address to listtransactions output
461 2011-01-01 06:03:05 <mizerydearia> Yeah, I have noticed using blockexplorer that some transactions show multiple addresses
462 2011-01-01 06:03:33 <davout> most transactions do given they have to send change back
463 2011-01-01 06:04:16 <mizerydearia> Ah, nice, I'll have to recompile and check it out.
464 2011-01-01 06:04:38 <mizerydearia> I imagine that code is already available in the staging tree at http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin?
465 2011-01-01 06:04:52 <davout> no idea
466 2011-01-01 06:04:57 <davout> not using it
467 2011-01-01 06:05:00 <mizerydearia> I'll find out.
468 2011-01-01 06:05:01 <mizerydearia> I'm using it.
469 2011-01-01 06:05:04 <davout> :)
470 2011-01-01 06:50:53 <mizerydearia> Boo, it appears that that update to listtransactions isn't available in the staging tree.
471 2011-01-01 07:58:59 <davout> why don't you just patch it ?
472 2011-01-01 11:37:01 <mizerydearia> Bitcoin Control Panel transaction page updated to show address/account information now.  It will only work for bitcoin clients using gavin's patch: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2404.0
473 2011-01-01 11:37:02 <bitbot> [PULL REQUEST] add address to listtransactions output
474 2011-01-01 11:37:10 <mizerydearia> thanks daveparrish
475 2011-01-01 11:37:13 <mizerydearia> davout*
476 2011-01-01 13:19:05 <Kiba`> MT`AwAy: you been neglecting my interview!
477 2011-01-01 14:47:35 <xelister> hi kiba happy new year
478 2011-01-01 14:50:35 <kiba> hi
479 2011-01-01 14:50:47 <kiba> let make bitcoin an astounding success this year!
480 2011-01-01 14:54:53 <luke-jr_> kiba: good luck! start with creating a working client :D
481 2011-01-01 14:55:14 <kiba> luke-jr_: huh?
482 2011-01-01 14:56:35 <bonsaikitten> luke-jr_: like one not depending badly on weird wxGTK versions? ;)
483 2011-01-01 14:56:48 <luke-jr_> bonsaikitten: yeah, that'd be one step forward
484 2011-01-01 14:57:12 <xelister> kiba:  lets :)
485 2011-01-01 14:57:28 <luke-jr_> repeat for bdb
486 2011-01-01 14:57:45 <luke-jr_> get a standard SHA1 impl instead of the unusual libcrypto++ dep
487 2011-01-01 14:57:50 <kiba> my job is to build successful bitcoin business and ask question like "what's the progress on your project"
488 2011-01-01 14:58:33 <luke-jr_> probably better if they make a simple library with minimal (and standard) deps, then wrap that in a Qt GUI
489 2011-01-01 14:58:50 <kiba> there are several people making their own bitcoin client
490 2011-01-01 14:58:51 <sipa> what are you trying to make?
491 2011-01-01 14:59:12 <luke-jr_> kiba: links? any of them work?
492 2011-01-01 14:59:24 <kiba> http://www.soulplaying.com
493 2011-01-01 14:59:31 <kiba> it's a bit broken I think
494 2011-01-01 15:04:02 <TD> making a bitcoin reimplementation is hard work :)
495 2011-01-01 15:05:31 <kiba> luke-jr_: oh, I got confused
496 2011-01-01 15:21:51 <sipa> is a generating transaction allowed to have multiple outputs?
497 2011-01-01 15:22:54 <sipa> or even allowed to have multiple inputs?
498 2011-01-01 15:23:15 <lfm> sipa, ya pudinpop uses that ability
499 2011-01-01 15:24:10 <sipa> lfm: that could explain the odd amount of unspent money according to my program :)
500 2011-01-01 15:24:32 <sipa> generated money that is sent to multiple people, and some use it, and some don't
501 2011-01-01 15:24:55 <lfm> sipa ya, look at block Block #99004  for instance
502 2011-01-01 15:25:23 <sipa> i see
503 2011-01-01 15:30:12 <kiba> the first day of 2011
504 2011-01-01 15:30:26 <tcatm> sipa: generation TXs don't have inputs
505 2011-01-01 15:30:27 <lfm> no kiddin!
506 2011-01-01 15:30:53 <lfm> well they have a special one, it cant be multiple afaik
507 2011-01-01 15:31:07 <tcatm> it's a coinbase
508 2011-01-01 15:31:28 <sipa> tcatm: but could they have both a coinbase and inputs?
509 2011-01-01 15:31:35 <tcatm> nope
510 2011-01-01 15:31:40 <lfm> sipa i dont think so
511 2011-01-01 15:31:44 <tcatm> only coinbase
512 2011-01-01 15:33:07 <sipa> ok
513 2011-01-01 15:33:10 <tcatm> also that coinbase doesn't have a "value". The value (e.g. 50 BTC) is implied by blocknumber and fees.
514 2011-01-01 15:33:40 <sipa> yes, i noticed
515 2011-01-01 15:33:49 <lfm> ya, like after a couple more years it will be 25
516 2011-01-01 15:34:04 <sipa> after block 210000
517 2011-01-01 15:34:28 <kiba> MT`AwAy: why are you refusing to answer my interview question in a timely manner
518 2011-01-01 16:11:46 <MT`AwAy> kiba: I'm not refusing, more like forgetting ^^;
519 2011-01-01 16:44:07 <sipa> ThomasV: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/spending.pdf
520 2011-01-01 16:46:25 <ThomasV> sipa: this looks strange
521 2011-01-01 16:46:50 <ThomasV> oh, no, ok
522 2011-01-01 16:46:54 <ThomasV> I got it
523 2011-01-01 16:47:56 <sipa> ThomasV: the 2.5M where the line stays at the bottom, are never spent
524 2011-01-01 16:48:03 <ThomasV> yes
525 2011-01-01 16:48:07 <sipa> s/spent/transferred/
526 2011-01-01 16:49:10 <lfm> so like half of all btc are hoarded and not circulated, actually more than that I expect
527 2011-01-01 16:49:29 <ThomasV> but there's a very small number of coins that were exchanged very often. I guess it might be due to the client choosing how to split things
528 2011-01-01 16:49:45 <sipa> i'm making another graph, where the x-axis m is sorted by generation time
529 2011-01-01 16:50:07 <sipa> so you can see how many times older or newer coints are transferred
530 2011-01-01 16:50:16 <lfm> or just the time between the input and the output
531 2011-01-01 16:51:20 <TD> half of all coins are sat on?
532 2011-01-01 16:51:21 <ThomasV> sipa: so you'll be binning and averaging then
533 2011-01-01 16:51:22 <TD> would not surprise me
534 2011-01-01 16:51:41 <TD> it does lead to the question of how meaningful the increasing dollar value of bitcoins is though
535 2011-01-01 16:51:52 <TD> as that suggests in a liquid market the price of bitcoins should be a lot lower
536 2011-01-01 16:51:56 <lfm> or just scatter graph amount versus age
537 2011-01-01 16:52:10 <sipa> ThomasV: for each transaction i will not only calculate the average amount of earlier transactions the input was in, but also the average block number in which it was generated
538 2011-01-01 16:52:21 <ThomasV> TD: it's all my point about inflation vs deflation
539 2011-01-01 16:53:39 <ThomasV> sipa: it will be interesting to see how that graph changes over time
540 2011-01-01 17:04:44 <ThomasV> TD: perhaps more than half are sat on, because a given user can have several wallets
541 2011-01-01 17:05:09 <TD> i suspect the real reason is lack of things to buy in the economy, and the difficulty of converting bitcoins back into national currencies
542 2011-01-01 17:05:19 <TD> i have a small hoard of coins that i am doing nothing with right now
543 2011-01-01 17:05:24 <TD> as there's nothing i want to do with them
544 2011-01-01 17:05:28 <TD> other than small donations, etc
545 2011-01-01 17:05:57 <ThomasV> I suspect users expect the dollar value of their coins to increase
546 2011-01-01 17:06:02 <TD> that too
547 2011-01-01 17:06:12 <TD> bitcoins are a speculative bubble
548 2011-01-01 17:06:53 <ThomasV> at some point, we should introduce a bitcoin variant with a built-in inflation rate
549 2011-01-01 17:09:19 <newsham> i expect the value of bitcoins to increase with the increase in mining cost
550 2011-01-01 17:09:59 <ThomasV> it's not sufficient
551 2011-01-01 17:10:01 <newsham> there is built-in inflation of 300 bitcoins an hour (if i got that number right)
552 2011-01-01 17:10:28 <ThomasV> newsham: yes but it is programmed to stop at 21M
553 2011-01-01 17:10:39 <newsham> maybe you could start a fiat currency with a centralized bank that buys and sells the currency to maintain a targetted inflation rate?
554 2011-01-01 17:10:58 <ThomasV> lol
555 2011-01-01 17:11:18 <sipa> or you could create a layer around bitcoin
556 2011-01-01 17:11:31 <sipa> which multiplies values by an index
557 2011-01-01 17:11:40 <ThomasV> sipa: yes
558 2011-01-01 17:12:05 <sipa> which could be made to look like a very "normal" currency
559 2011-01-01 17:12:21 <ThomasV> but that would reward people who hold their coins
560 2011-01-01 17:12:26 <newsham> td: you should solicit services with your bitcoin hoard
561 2011-01-01 17:12:34 <newsham> want me to write you a small python program? ;-)
562 2011-01-01 17:12:37 <sipa> ThomasV: yes indeed
563 2011-01-01 17:12:43 <TD> haha
564 2011-01-01 17:12:49 <TD> i can write my own programs, though
565 2011-01-01 17:12:59 <sipa> ThomasV: and you'd actually want that money goes to miners
566 2011-01-01 17:13:14 <newsham> first one's free http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/obf2.py
567 2011-01-01 17:13:35 <newsham> td: you could, but you could also sit back and have someone else do it thanks to your bankroll
568 2011-01-01 17:13:50 <TD> i don't have a hoard that big :)
569 2011-01-01 17:13:56 <TD> though i don't mind growing it
570 2011-01-01 17:13:59 <TD> if there's a service i want
571 2011-01-01 17:14:05 <newsham> second one's free too http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/x/machine/mand4.py
572 2011-01-01 17:15:18 <ThomasV> sipa: I do not know ; miners are perhaps not the best solution, but I have no better one... in the current centralized system, new currency is introduced through credit but it is difficult to imagine how to make this in a decentralized system
573 2011-01-01 17:16:15 <sipa> ThomasV: well, just having an index doesn't change the current system at all
574 2011-01-01 17:16:26 <ThomasV> an index ?
575 2011-01-01 17:16:40 <sipa> 19:11:18 < sipa> or you could create a layer around bitcoin
576 2011-01-01 17:16:41 <sipa> 19:11:31 < sipa> which multiplies values by an index
577 2011-01-01 17:16:51 <newsham> is there a reason you want to make a system with built in inflation?
578 2011-01-01 17:17:25 <sipa> the only thing it would change is the psychological problem of salaries that seem to go down
579 2011-01-01 17:17:26 <ThomasV> sipa: exactly. it would change nothing to the fact that there's a strong incentive to hold your coins
580 2011-01-01 17:18:02 <sipa> i don't mind that actually
581 2011-01-01 17:18:41 <ThomasV> I do. if you don't want to reward lazy rich people, the money supply has to be increased, and the increase has to go to those who add value to the economy
582 2011-01-01 17:19:05 <DjeZAeL> (happy new year !)
583 2011-01-01 17:19:09 <newsham> ahh, you want inheritance tax ;-)
584 2011-01-01 17:19:17 <sipa> computer hardware also suffers from that... if i wait a year, i will get much better hardware for the same price (even inflation-corrected)
585 2011-01-01 17:19:21 <sipa> still i buy hardware
586 2011-01-01 17:19:23 <TD> you can encourage investment without using inflation, i suspect
587 2011-01-01 17:19:33 <TD> DjeZAeL: happy new year!
588 2011-01-01 17:19:59 <DjeZAeL> thanks, you too TD :)
589 2011-01-01 17:20:20 <ThomasV> newsham: I'm not one of those anti-tax tea partyer
590 2011-01-01 17:22:14 <newsham> neither am i.  i like socialized roads, fire depts, police stations, education and dare I say health care and retirement insurance
591 2011-01-01 17:22:26 <newsham> i'm a patriot.  i believe in paying taxes.
592 2011-01-01 17:23:41 <ThomasV> sipa: will you put this graph on a webpage ?
593 2011-01-01 17:23:42 <davex__> "paying taxes is patriotic.  " uttered in the bitcoin channel.
594 2011-01-01 17:23:46 <davex__> gresham's law at work?
595 2011-01-01 17:24:07 <newsham> davex: we cant all be anarchists :)
596 2011-01-01 17:24:21 <kiba> why are libertarian so technological forward looking?
597 2011-01-01 17:24:31 <davex__> i think it's a good sign that non-anarchists (ie idiots) are using bitcoin.
598 2011-01-01 17:24:43 <newsham> heh.. thanks.
599 2011-01-01 17:24:50 <newsham> <- idiot
600 2011-01-01 17:24:54 <davex__> yup. ;)
601 2011-01-01 17:25:03 <sipa> ThomasV: i may, but i want to automate things a bit more :)
602 2011-01-01 17:25:30 <TD> DjeZAeL: any new years resolutions?
603 2011-01-01 17:25:36 <TD> "buy more things with bitcoin", etc? :-)
604 2011-01-01 17:25:40 <ThomasV> newsham: interesting, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
605 2011-01-01 17:25:47 <DjeZAeL> TD: not for the moment, it's too early XD
606 2011-01-01 17:27:08 <newsham> gresham goodwin and greenspun
607 2011-01-01 17:27:20 <newsham> all you ned to know on the interweb
608 2011-01-01 17:28:29 <DjeZAeL> TD: for the bitcoins, i have only 0.11BTC
609 2011-01-01 17:29:20 <DjeZAeL> and for the resolutions, I need to be more awaked to think about that ^^
610 2011-01-01 17:30:03 <TD> aww
611 2011-01-01 17:30:07 <TD> visit the faucet :)
612 2011-01-01 17:30:17 <DjeZAeL> already done
613 2011-01-01 17:30:47 <DjeZAeL> it gives only one time ?
614 2011-01-01 17:31:25 <TD> it probably gives you as often as you solve a captcha
615 2011-01-01 17:31:33 <TD> iirc it does not require a username or anything like that
616 2011-01-01 17:31:40 <ThomasV> only once a day
617 2011-01-01 17:31:46 <DjeZAeL> no it doesnt
618 2011-01-01 17:31:47 <newsham> once per day per ip addr or something
619 2011-01-01 17:31:57 <TD> oh
620 2011-01-01 17:32:00 <DjeZAeL> i had bitcoin only one time :(
621 2011-01-01 17:32:13 <lucky> once per ip, period, afaik.
622 2011-01-01 17:32:19 <DjeZAeL> According to my records, I sent 0.05 bitcoins Nov. 10, 2010 to somebody who came here with your IP address.
623 2011-01-01 17:32:49 <newsham> dhcp a new lease? ;-)
624 2011-01-01 17:33:04 <DjeZAeL> pfff not so important ;)
625 2011-01-01 17:33:14 <newsham> source routing?
626 2011-01-01 17:33:38 <DjeZAeL> it's the 1st january today and I decided not to work !
627 2011-01-01 17:33:48 <newsham> its also saturday
628 2011-01-01 17:33:54 <TD> heh
629 2011-01-01 17:33:59 <TD> well there are other ways to get coins
630 2011-01-01 17:34:14 <DjeZAeL> newsham: also
631 2011-01-01 17:34:26 <newsham> td: except you wont buy my python services! ;-)
632 2011-01-01 17:34:29 <DjeZAeL> but the night was "hard" ^^
633 2011-01-01 17:35:37 <DjeZAeL> like could say The Beatles, it has been a hard day's night
634 2011-01-01 17:35:37 <TD> i'll sleep on it newsham ;)
635 2011-01-01 17:36:03 <newsham> td: also haskell, awk, sed, perl, x86, c, c++, sh, whatever.
636 2011-01-01 17:36:17 <newsham> will code for btc <- need a shirt that says that
637 2011-01-01 17:36:59 <TD> if you can develop a reputation for getting patches into the official c++ implementation i'm sure you could get a lot of coins for enhancements
638 2011-01-01 17:37:20 <xelister> davex__:
639 2011-01-01 17:37:22 <newsham> ick boost.
640 2011-01-01 17:37:23 <newsham> ;-)
641 2011-01-01 17:37:30 <xelister> newsham: boost rocks
642 2011-01-01 17:37:43 <xelister> although some people are too stupid to comprehand it
643 2011-01-01 17:37:45 <newsham> if you say so
644 2011-01-01 17:37:47 <newsham> true
645 2011-01-01 17:37:58 <newsham> you should write code that only very intelligent people can work on
646 2011-01-01 17:38:03 <davex__> but it doesn't compile in ndk.
647 2011-01-01 17:38:15 <newsham> davex: for android?
648 2011-01-01 17:38:16 <xelister> newsham: boost makes things much easier
649 2011-01-01 17:38:18 <davex__> ya
650 2011-01-01 17:38:24 <xelister> but you need to learn the tool of course
651 2011-01-01 17:38:25 <TD> i don't think you want to host the official client on android
652 2011-01-01 17:38:27 <newsham> is there interest in an android client?
653 2011-01-01 17:38:30 <TD> yes
654 2011-01-01 17:38:33 <TD> newsham: but i'm already writing one ;)
655 2011-01-01 17:38:43 <xelister> The American People are our employees
656 2011-01-01 17:38:44 <newsham> doing it in pure java?  or with ndk?
657 2011-01-01 17:38:44 <xelister> whose taxes fund the wars that support our schemes
658 2011-01-01 17:38:45 <xelister> their kids become troops we send overseas
659 2011-01-01 17:38:46 <TD> that said. i could imagine paying others for various things that would prove useful
660 2011-01-01 17:38:47 <xelister> in return for mega malls and the American dream
661 2011-01-01 17:38:50 <xelister> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl4NlA97GeQ&feature=related  ;)
662 2011-01-01 17:38:57 <davex__> TD: someone might want to.
663 2011-01-01 17:39:07 <newsham> if you do it in pure java it will run on more platforms (like gtv)
664 2011-01-01 17:39:09 <TD> pure java ..... i looked at running the official code in the NDK but decided it was better to build a fresh implemetation
665 2011-01-01 17:40:10 <newsham> sounds like a neat idea..   though with something like a cellphone i'd definitely want a good wallet backup mechanism.
666 2011-01-01 17:40:26 <newsham> pushing it encrypted to goog docs or something would be neat
667 2011-01-01 17:40:32 <newsham> so you can easily switch phones
668 2011-01-01 17:40:40 <TD> indeed
669 2011-01-01 17:41:04 <TD> fortunately android has a backup mechanism already
670 2011-01-01 17:41:17 <newsham> really?  i'm not familiar with it
671 2011-01-01 17:41:20 <TD> unfortunately it is, like anything else, protected by your google password which is vulnerable to compromise. so there'd need to be an additional wallet password
672 2011-01-01 17:41:24 <TD> it's transparent. apps backup silently, the backups are restored when you reinstall the app [on a new phone or not]
673 2011-01-01 17:41:46 <newsham> interesting..  when was that added?
674 2011-01-01 17:42:24 <newsham> how about a .js implementation for browsers (and chromeos)?
675 2011-01-01 17:43:01 <newsham> hmm that might not work.. dont hink there's enough net api (without a web server helper)
676 2011-01-01 17:43:12 <davex__> js is a good idea, hadn't thought of that.
677 2011-01-01 17:43:57 <newsham> i guess at some point someone will want to write a BTC wallet web app
678 2011-01-01 17:44:04 <TD> http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/backup.html
679 2011-01-01 17:44:12 <newsham> for the kinda people who trust web apps :)
680 2011-01-01 17:44:18 <newsham> (clearly not anarchists)
681 2011-01-01 17:44:23 <TD> was added in froyo
682 2011-01-01 17:44:24 <newsham> danke td
683 2011-01-01 17:44:37 <TD> a js implementation wouldn't be very useful unless you wanted to use ChromeOS
684 2011-01-01 17:44:48 <newsham> no froyo image for my adp1 :(
685 2011-01-01 17:44:51 <TD> part of the point of having an android implementation  is that android is fairly robust against malware
686 2011-01-01 17:44:57 <newsham> td: I'm typing from chromeos now
687 2011-01-01 17:45:03 <TD> newsham: i think cyanogen mod can help you?
688 2011-01-01 17:45:18 <newsham> td: possibly.. i havent been running cyanogen releases but perhaps i should
689 2011-01-01 17:45:19 <TD> newsham: really? that's pretty cool. actually, i work for google and even i don't have a chromeos laptop yet :)
690 2011-01-01 17:45:30 <TD> you are ahead of the curve, i think
691 2011-01-01 17:46:18 <newsham> td: they had an open beta program where people outside google could request a cr48
692 2011-01-01 17:46:31 <TD> yeah, i saw it. the box seemed rather cute.
693 2011-01-01 17:46:34 <newsham> (also I did some review of chromeos with isecpartners)
694 2011-01-01 17:46:48 <TD> how are you finding it? i heard on the grapevine it's still pretty rough
695 2011-01-01 17:47:26 <newsham> i like it.  its a great couch laptop for guests.  i'm almost but not quite sold on the idea that my gramma or mom or some other non tech should get a box like this
696 2011-01-01 17:47:32 <newsham> to avoid malware, to simplify updates, etc.
697 2011-01-01 17:47:43 <newsham> though they would still miss the ability to do things like skype.
698 2011-01-01 17:48:40 <newsham> there's only a few rough edges i've noticed so far.  like its missing a local file browsing mechanism.. but that piece is less important for the chromeos design where you're really not supposed to have local files much
699 2011-01-01 17:48:56 <newsham> what do you do at google?  do you use your 20% time on bitcoin?
700 2011-01-01 17:49:13 <newsham> also please send me some goog cafe food! :)
701 2011-01-01 17:49:14 <TD> no, currently it's just a hobby. i might try and 20%ify it some time this year
702 2011-01-01 17:49:19 <TD> hah :)
703 2011-01-01 17:49:25 <TD> i work on gmail spam filtering
704 2011-01-01 17:49:30 <newsham> *heart* cafe-150
705 2011-01-01 17:49:34 <TD> well actually abuse
706 2011-01-01 17:49:38 <kiba> they still do 20% thing at google?
707 2011-01-01 17:49:41 <TD> sure
708 2011-01-01 17:50:22 <newsham> man, i would not want to work in anti-spam.
709 2011-01-01 17:50:28 <newsham> a friend of mine used to be at cloudmark though.
710 2011-01-01 17:50:41 <TD> heh, why not?
711 2011-01-01 17:50:43 <kiba> obviously
712 2011-01-01 17:50:49 <kiba> if they're still spamming, it mean that spamming works
713 2011-01-01 17:50:56 <TD> nah
714 2011-01-01 17:50:58 <newsham> td: I dont like heuristic problems much.  i much rather solvable problems.
715 2011-01-01 17:51:06 <newsham> though i guess anti-spam, anti-virus, etc.. has job security
716 2011-01-01 17:51:10 <newsham> since you'll never be done
717 2011-01-01 17:51:13 <TD> you'd think so
718 2011-01-01 17:51:16 <TD> not really the case
719 2011-01-01 17:51:32 <kiba> the job security is provided by dumb human beings
720 2011-01-01 17:51:42 <TD> the threats change and move around
721 2011-01-01 17:52:00 <newsham> thats because you get a heuristic solution and they work around it.
722 2011-01-01 17:52:03 <TD> so i guess you can consider it unsolvable in that respect. but if the threats move away from your product or userbase arguably you have "solved" it for the local case
723 2011-01-01 17:52:09 <newsham> if it was a solvable problem, you'd implement solution and ther would be no new threat
724 2011-01-01 17:52:13 <TD> which is usually the one you care about
725 2011-01-01 17:52:28 <newsham> like anti-virus.. i blame church and turing!
726 2011-01-01 17:52:53 <kiba> viruses. I don't have a virus scanner on my computer
727 2011-01-01 17:53:08 <TD> the spam/abuse handling on gmail has become really, really good over time. i think it's close to as solved as it's going to get.
728 2011-01-01 17:53:20 <TD> the big remaining problem is account compromise
729 2011-01-01 17:53:27 <newsham> td: as a gmail user, i agree.. you guys do a great job.
730 2011-01-01 17:53:41 <nathan7> :O
731 2011-01-01 17:53:46 <TD> once we have better security against hijacking i think spammers will basically abandon spamming to/from the big 3 mail providers
732 2011-01-01 17:53:50 <newsham> so wait.. you work at google, you cant be an anarchist!
733 2011-01-01 17:53:56 <TD> i'm not an anarchist :)
734 2011-01-01 17:54:04 <newsham> I KNEW IT!
735 2011-01-01 17:54:40 <newsham> anyway, enough silliness..  thanks for that chat, i need to grab some food..
736 2011-01-01 17:54:44 <TD> enjoy
737 2011-01-01 17:57:39 <kiba> thanks to jgarzik's mining improvement, I am now able to do 700-600ish
738 2011-01-01 18:15:05 <lfm> kiba which algorithm?
739 2011-01-01 18:25:10 <kiba> jgarzik's algorithm!
740 2011-01-01 18:25:35 <lfm> ok link? is it for cpus?
741 2011-01-01 18:25:41 <kiba> cpuminer!
742 2011-01-01 18:25:47 <kiba> jgarzik's thread!
743 2011-01-01 18:26:22 <lfm> cpu, 4way or cpu_asm? algorithm?
744 2011-01-01 18:30:02 <lfm> kiba or you just using defaults thats --algo=cpu then
745 2011-01-01 18:30:26 <kiba> no
746 2011-01-01 18:36:53 <mizerydearia> Would anyone like to help populate questions and answers again?  http://witcoin.com
747 2011-01-01 18:38:43 <edcba> why should i send bitcoins to awnser a question ?
748 2011-01-01 18:38:46 <nathan7> witcoin, we get jokes for bitcoins?
749 2011-01-01 18:38:49 <mizerydearia> I am more prepared to handle refunds now if the site breaks or bugs form now that I have Bitcoin Control Panel available. ^_^
750 2011-01-01 18:39:11 <mizerydearia> edcba, You can have them returned if you desire.
751 2011-01-01 18:39:30 <mizerydearia> The reason their is a price is to give the answer value.
752 2011-01-01 18:39:44 <mizerydearia> The more bitcoins you submit to an answer, the more valuable it will be.
753 2011-01-01 18:39:49 <edcba> lol
754 2011-01-01 18:40:04 <edcba> usually i'm getting paid for my anwsers...
755 2011-01-01 18:40:12 <mizerydearia> Soon I will add ability to fund additional amounts to answers from other users.
756 2011-01-01 18:40:22 <mizerydearia> And then you will be able to get paid for your answers.
757 2011-01-01 18:40:33 <mizerydearia> e.g.  75% of funds sent to the answer will go directly to the answerer.
758 2011-01-01 18:41:10 <mizerydearia> The remaining 25% will go to noagendamarket to cover costs and fund further projects.
759 2011-01-01 18:41:52 <mizerydearia> That is the idea anyway.
760 2011-01-01 18:41:53 <edcba> i find 25% is a lot
761 2011-01-01 18:41:56 <mizerydearia> I'm still working on the site.
762 2011-01-01 18:41:59 <edcba> but i like the idea
763 2011-01-01 18:42:42 <edcba> now 25% may be ok if you don't do advertising or data selling
764 2011-01-01 18:42:49 <mizerydearia> I don't plan on it.
765 2011-01-01 18:42:51 <Cusipzzz> Bitcoin Control Panel ?
766 2011-01-01 18:43:02 <mizerydearia> I'd like to keep the question and asking in an anonymous fashion
767 2011-01-01 18:43:23 <mizerydearia> Cusipzzz, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2546.msg34565#msg34565
768 2011-01-01 18:43:26 <bitbot> Bitcoin Control Panel : mizerydearia: Bitcoin Control Panel  I would like to prepare this initial code offering for wide adoption.  I am uncertain if it is a best implementation, but it is functional and minimal in design.  For the moment, a PHP-based server-side backend is made available, however, I would additionally like to expand this particular project to account fo...
769 2011-01-01 18:43:48 <lfm> can we just put "if you found this answer usefull send a tip to {btaddress}"?
770 2011-01-01 18:44:08 <Cusipzzz> mizerydearia: thanks
771 2011-01-01 18:44:28 <mizerydearia> I suppose you could, however in that case it will miss out on the future features I plan on implementing
772 2011-01-01 18:45:00 <mizerydearia> Particular ranking questions and answers based on their worth, making them appear first.
773 2011-01-01 18:45:26 <lfm> how would you assign worth?
774 2011-01-01 18:45:38 <mizerydearia> By funding the question or answer with bitcoins.
775 2011-01-01 18:45:47 <mizerydearia> In the case of funding a question, all proceeds go to noagendamarket
776 2011-01-01 18:45:58 <mizerydearia> In the case of funding an answer 75% will go to answerer and 25% to noagendamarket
777 2011-01-01 18:46:26 <mizerydearia> As of yet I haven't implemented the funding of answers, however.
778 2011-01-01 18:46:38 <kiba> what about your pizza project?
779 2011-01-01 18:46:43 <kiba> shouldn't you get that done first?
780 2011-01-01 18:46:54 <Cusipzzz> lol
781 2011-01-01 18:46:59 <mizerydearia> I am taking a break from it for now as I am having difficulty proceeding or knowing how to proceed.
782 2011-01-01 18:47:19 <Cusipzzz> mizerydearia: are you going to continue to work on the Control Panel ?
783 2011-01-01 18:49:07 <mizerydearia> Possibly, but I would like to encourage others to possibly contribute to make it better.  I needed a web based interface to manage Bitcoin client and so I designed something useful for myself whilst also providing it available for others to use and expand upon, make better.  I can help contribute bits and pieces here and there, but others' viewpoints on the direction to proceed with it would be helpful.
784 2011-01-01 18:49:35 <edcba> You must wait for 1 confirmation receipt of your submitted Bitcoins before asking a question. Please wait and try again.No error message. This is an error. Please contact site admin. ^_^
785 2011-01-01 18:49:39 <mizerydearia> ^_^
786 2011-01-01 18:49:44 <mizerydearia> uhojh
787 2011-01-01 18:50:56 <mizerydearia> Ah, I forgot the "else "
788 2011-01-01 18:51:04 <Cusipzzz> lol
789 2011-01-01 18:51:20 <edcba> you should just accept the question
790 2011-01-01 18:51:36 <mizerydearia> I would, but the reason I cannot is because...
791 2011-01-01 18:51:53 <edcba> because ?
792 2011-01-01 18:51:55 <mizerydearia> If you want to have the bitcoins returned, if there aren't enough in the bitcoin account, then there will be an error.
793 2011-01-01 18:52:12 <edcba> you just schedule the return
794 2011-01-01 18:52:12 <mizerydearia> and I'd rather not set up a crontask to manage handling returns.
795 2011-01-01 18:52:17 <edcba> lol
796 2011-01-01 18:52:46 <mizerydearia> You're welcome to use the site freely, however, that is not the particular focus or intention of the site.
797 2011-01-01 18:52:53 <edcba> ok then no crontask but code it in website directly :)
798 2011-01-01 18:52:57 <mizerydearia> I'd like to prepare it to be a useful question and asking resource.
799 2011-01-01 18:53:24 <edcba> we really need some uri bitcoin scheme
800 2011-01-01 18:53:38 <edcba> it would be so much easier to use
801 2011-01-01 18:54:42 <newsham> btc://1TmK4hmbyH2AhwTATyoGcMxJH3Db9ohgB
802 2011-01-01 18:54:59 <edcba> no lol no //
803 2011-01-01 18:55:02 <edcba> it's useless :)
804 2011-01-01 18:55:02 <marioxcc> uh?
805 2011-01-01 18:55:08 <newsham> the //.../ is for addr
806 2011-01-01 18:55:25 <marioxcc> what are you talking about guys?
807 2011-01-01 18:55:29 <marioxcc> and happy new year BTW
808 2011-01-01 18:55:34 <edcba> the // implies hierarchy
809 2011-01-01 18:55:38 <edcba> happy new year too
810 2011-01-01 18:56:18 <marioxcc> do you want to intruce yet-another-unofficial-extension to the URI?
811 2011-01-01 18:56:22 <marioxcc> *introduce
812 2011-01-01 18:56:35 <edcba> extension ?
813 2011-01-01 18:56:41 <edcba> just another uri
814 2011-01-01 18:56:45 <edcba> i don't see the problem
815 2011-01-01 18:56:59 <marioxcc> i don't see the benefit
816 2011-01-01 18:57:09 <marioxcc> I would just use the directions per se
817 2011-01-01 18:57:20 <edcba> which directions ?
818 2011-01-01 18:57:29 <marioxcc> bitcoin directions
819 2011-01-01 18:57:47 <marioxcc> i think it's a text encoding for a RIPEMD160
820 2011-01-01 18:57:53 <marioxcc> not sure, thu*
821 2011-01-01 18:58:13 <edcba> satsohi should just implement at least a basic uri scheme
822 2011-01-01 18:58:34 <edcba> ie a crude btc:1TmK4hmbyH2AhwTATyoGcMxJH3Db9ohgB
823 2011-01-01 18:58:34 <marioxcc> why should he?
824 2011-01-01 18:58:51 <edcba> because that would help a lot to implement bitcoin on websites
825 2011-01-01 18:58:52 <marioxcc> the original bitcoin client is free software, you can implement what you want
826 2011-01-01 18:59:04 <edcba> of course but that won't help
827 2011-01-01 18:59:09 <marioxcc> why won't it?
828 2011-01-01 18:59:15 <marioxcc> just implement it yourself and send the patch
829 2011-01-01 18:59:18 <edcba> i could dev my own flash replacement
830 2011-01-01 18:59:22 <newsham> <a href="btc://1TmK4hmbyH2AhwTATyoGcMxJH3Db9ohgB/23.25">pay me now!</a>.
831 2011-01-01 18:59:26 <edcba> that doesn't mean ppl will stop using flash :)
832 2011-01-01 18:59:46 <marioxcc> edcba: no, because flash is proprietary software
833 2011-01-01 18:59:58 <marioxcc> and their developers are likley to reject anything which don't comes from them
834 2011-01-01 19:00:03 <edcba> newsham: you know ppl not necessarily use . as decimal separator btw ? :)
835 2011-01-01 19:00:10 <marioxcc> however, i'm sure satoshi will include any reasonable patch in the mainline
836 2011-01-01 19:00:12 <edcba> and i still don't like using / as separator
837 2011-01-01 19:00:18 <newsham> edcba: a standardized uri would :)
838 2011-01-01 19:00:39 <edcba> yes i think too indeed
839 2011-01-01 19:00:55 <edcba> but i'm not very fond of / separator
840 2011-01-01 19:01:13 <newsham> uri's use //addr/local/descr/here
841 2011-01-01 19:01:15 <marioxcc> so please don't say satoshi should do X and Y, do it yourself and send a patch or make a fork, if it's good enough people will use it
842 2011-01-01 19:01:16 <newsham> *shru*
843 2011-01-01 19:01:22 <edcba> newsham: http uri
844 2011-01-01 19:01:23 <marioxcc> thanks for your understanding :)
845 2011-01-01 19:01:28 <newsham> non-http uris too
846 2011-01-01 19:01:31 <edcba> some
847 2011-01-01 19:02:16 <edcba> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_scheme#Generic_syntax
848 2011-01-01 19:02:35 <edcba> you don't have mailto://newsham@freenode.net/ :)
849 2011-01-01 19:03:24 <newsham> irc://freenode/newsham
850 2011-01-01 19:03:30 <marioxcc> edcba: I would suggest to consult http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986
851 2011-01-01 19:04:17 <edcba> absolute-URI  = scheme ":" hier-part [ "?" query ]
852 2011-01-01 19:04:26 <edcba> that's what says that rfc :)
853 2011-01-01 19:04:58 <newsham> rfc://3986?wtf
854 2011-01-01 19:05:21 <marioxcc> hier-part   = "//" authority path-abempty
855 2011-01-01 19:05:25 <marioxcc> here you have
856 2011-01-01 19:05:28 <sipa> yes
857 2011-01-01 19:05:31 <marioxcc> you have to learn to read rfc's
858 2011-01-01 19:05:33 <marioxcc> :P
859 2011-01-01 19:05:38 <edcba> that implies hierarchical content...
860 2011-01-01 19:05:52 <sipa> but if there is no reasonable hierarchic part, don't use one
861 2011-01-01 19:05:55 <sipa> like magnet links
862 2011-01-01 19:06:18 <marioxcc> it just references more definitions
863 2011-01-01 19:06:35 <marioxcc> path-abempty, path-absolute, path-rootless and path-empty
864 2011-01-01 19:06:41 <marioxcc> lets see
865 2011-01-01 19:06:55 <newsham> its a grammar
866 2011-01-01 19:06:57 <edcba> http://www.w3.org/TR/uri-clarification/
867 2011-01-01 19:07:02 <newsham> grammars do that
868 2011-01-01 19:07:18 <marioxcc> newsham: i know, i mean we should see these too
869 2011-01-01 19:07:27 <newsham> you can.. its in the rfc.
870 2011-01-01 19:07:30 <newsham> its free even.
871 2011-01-01 19:07:32 <newsham> no btc's required
872 2011-01-01 19:08:10 <marioxcc> that's what i'm doing
873 2011-01-01 19:08:37 <Cusipzzz> satoshi should do X and Y imo =)
874 2011-01-01 19:09:33 <edcba> Cusipzzz: yes of course :)
875 2011-01-01 19:10:00 <edcba> but either i have to do my own fork with X and Y or my new whole client if i want enough ppl using that
876 2011-01-01 19:10:22 <edcba> and a fork with X and Y would not gain traction without a really good X
877 2011-01-01 19:10:26 <edcba> or Y
878 2011-01-01 19:10:52 <Cusipzzz> right... but if HE does it...it becomes de facto done
879 2011-01-01 19:10:56 <edcba> indeed
880 2011-01-01 19:11:07 <marioxcc> my point is, because bitcoin is free software you don't depend on their developers to get something done
881 2011-01-01 19:11:18 <marioxcc> if you want X and Y do it yourself or pay someone for do so
882 2011-01-01 19:11:19 <edcba> but satoshi is not really the kind of ppl listening to others suggestions it seems :p
883 2011-01-01 19:11:43 <edcba> it's not a developping issue
884 2011-01-01 19:11:49 <marioxcc> what is it then?
885 2011-01-01 19:11:51 <Cusipzzz> it's an inclusion issue
886 2011-01-01 19:11:57 <edcba> it's political/marketing :)
887 2011-01-01 19:12:03 <marioxcc> duh
888 2011-01-01 19:12:09 <edcba> or community thing
889 2011-01-01 19:12:40 <edcba> if not enough ppl thinks X and Y is good i can throw a lot of money in it, that won't change anything :)
890 2011-01-01 19:13:04 <marioxcc> edcba:
891 2011-01-01 19:13:06 <Cusipzzz> buy satoshi hookers and blow, imo
892 2011-01-01 19:13:07 <marioxcc> oops
893 2011-01-01 19:13:20 <newsham> whats the btc to blow conversion factor?
894 2011-01-01 19:13:33 <Cusipzzz> good question... should add that to mtgox
895 2011-01-01 19:13:39 <edcba> Cusipzzz: haha
896 2011-01-01 19:13:44 <marioxcc> edcba:
897 2011-01-01 19:13:45 <marioxcc> *do the changes you want
898 2011-01-01 19:13:47 <marioxcc> *if it gets accepted, end
899 2011-01-01 19:13:48 <marioxcc> *if it is not accepted, publish it on GNU savannah or another FS hosting site
900 2011-01-01 19:13:51 <marioxcc> 
901 2011-01-01 19:13:54 <marioxcc> so easy...
902 2011-01-01 19:14:21 <Cusipzzz> not so easy
903 2011-01-01 19:14:58 <edcba> not easy since i don't own mac and i don't know how work uri handling in various desktop environments in fact
904 2011-01-01 19:15:09 <marioxcc> that's the problem of free software (and open source too), the users are every time more passive, they expect someone else to do all the development
905 2011-01-01 19:15:20 <marioxcc> and if it don't gets done they will just complain
906 2011-01-01 19:17:35 <devon_hillard> who is running the bitcoin.cz bitcoin pool?
907 2011-01-01 19:18:04 <Cusipzzz> apparently hookers in japan run 150-400 USD, so maybe 800 BTC. blow is 140/gram so maybe 600BTC
908 2011-01-01 19:18:20 <Cusipzzz> google is your friend
909 2011-01-01 19:18:21 <edcba> devon_hillard: email@bitcoinme.com ?
910 2011-01-01 19:18:42 <edcba> Cusipzzz: that's about everything i own in bitcoins !!!
911 2011-01-01 19:18:49 <Cusipzzz> :(
912 2011-01-01 19:18:59 <devon_hillard> yeah, just hit a null pointer exception in Diablo's miner: http://pastebin.com/xSPfKF7U
913 2011-01-01 19:19:10 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3 ^^
914 2011-01-01 19:20:47 <devon_hillard> I hope that's enough information
915 2011-01-01 19:22:21 <edcba> usually line number is enough
916 2011-01-01 19:22:54 <devon_hillard> seven hours of no mining :(
917 2011-01-01 19:23:48 <edcba> where is the diablominer ?