1 2011-01-19 00:17:45 <andrew12> I think I might try running a miner on an Amazon EC2 cloud.. just to see how good it is
  2 2011-01-19 00:18:10 <ArtForz> *yawn*
  3 2011-01-19 00:18:26 <andrew12> lol
  4 2011-01-19 00:18:40 <ArtForz> you're only about the 374th person to come up with that great idea
  5 2011-01-19 00:19:10 <Diablo-D3> yes
  6 2011-01-19 00:19:14 <Diablo-D3> it was always a bad idea
  7 2011-01-19 00:19:21 <ArtForz> try it, it's only more expensive than buying btc by a factor of 20 or so
  8 2011-01-19 00:19:22 <Diablo-D3> ec2 is the most expensive VPS on the internet
  9 2011-01-19 00:19:25 <Diablo-D3> its also the most shitty
 10 2011-01-19 00:19:51 <Diablo-D3> the cheapest per cpu hour is rapidxen and rackspace cloud
 11 2011-01-19 00:19:59 <Diablo-D3> and thats still more expensive than the value of the btc
 12 2011-01-19 00:20:13 <ArtForz> by quite a margin
 13 2011-01-19 00:20:31 <andrew12> hehe
 14 2011-01-19 00:20:44 <andrew12> I'd only run it for a few hours
 15 2011-01-19 00:21:10 <Diablo-D3> btw 20? 20 on rapidxen
 16 2011-01-19 00:21:13 <Diablo-D3> more like 50 on ec2
 17 2011-01-19 00:21:21 <Diablo-D3> and dont bother with the ec2 cuda boxes either
 18 2011-01-19 00:21:36 <ArtForz> well, that was back when difficulty was like 5000
 19 2011-01-19 00:21:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I meant now
 20 2011-01-19 00:21:56 <Diablo-D3> back then it was profitable on RX and not on EC2
 21 2011-01-19 00:22:05 <ArtForz> actually it wasn't on RX either
 22 2011-01-19 00:22:13 <gigitrix> ec2 has a free tier now
 23 2011-01-19 00:22:32 <gigitrix> 750 hours of a 'micro' instance
 24 2011-01-19 00:22:33 <ArtForz> RX became unprofitable beyond difficulty 2k or so
 25 2011-01-19 00:23:10 <ArtForz> thats about what? half a TI-84?
 26 2011-01-19 00:23:12 <Cusipzzz> i tried the ec2 free, it's terrible
 27 2011-01-19 00:23:18 <gigitrix> sure you've to be careful cause you give em credit card info, but it's going to be hard to overshoot the free quotas if all you are doing is using cpu and drabs of network
 28 2011-01-19 00:23:38 <gigitrix> yeah but you can set it up and run it for a year for free
 29 2011-01-19 00:23:41 <Diablo-D3> gigitrix: its not free
 30 2011-01-19 00:23:45 <Diablo-D3> its free for one year for new customers
 31 2011-01-19 00:23:53 <gigitrix> that's what I mean
 32 2011-01-19 00:23:54 <gigitrix> t*
 33 2011-01-19 00:24:00 <Diablo-D3> it takes about 2 years to generate a block.
 34 2011-01-19 00:24:00 <gigitrix> for a year for free
 35 2011-01-19 00:24:05 <gigitrix> pool
 36 2011-01-19 00:24:06 <Cusipzzz> yes, free for new customers. I played with it for an hour and gave up
 37 2011-01-19 00:24:22 <Diablo-D3> they are intentionally cpu limited
 38 2011-01-19 00:24:29 <LobsterMan> new nvidia drivers were released today
 39 2011-01-19 00:24:36 <gigitrix> yeah, but they burst every now and again
 40 2011-01-19 00:24:51 <ArtForz> yeah, then you got micro instance all over the place
 41 2011-01-19 00:24:56 <gigitrix> neway, i'm saying "free money", i'm not saying how much
 42 2011-01-19 00:25:00 <gigitrix> :P
 43 2011-01-19 00:25:35 <ArtForz> new nvidia drivers, now with even more stuff broken
 44 2011-01-19 00:25:36 <gigitrix> might not be worth the effort for most people but i'll be doing it for the sole purpose of messing with ec2, which is something i've wanted to do for a long time
 45 2011-01-19 00:25:42 <gigitrix> gives me a project...
 46 2011-01-19 00:26:17 <ArtForz> just search the dev forum, people have done it half a dozen times
 47 2011-01-19 00:27:03 <ArtForz> btw, have you read the rumored power usage of GTX560
 48 2011-01-19 00:27:09 <ArtForz> 200 nvidia Watts
 49 2011-01-19 00:27:30 <ArtForz> so... about 230W peak
 50 2011-01-19 00:28:43 <ArtForz> for something meant to compete with HD68xx, thats kinda... errr... uhhh...
 51 2011-01-19 00:29:58 <ArtForz> "hey, it's totally great, about as fast as a chip half the size that uses about half the power"
 52 2011-01-19 00:30:50 <Diablo-D3> heh
 53 2011-01-19 00:30:51 <Diablo-D3> well
 54 2011-01-19 00:30:55 <Diablo-D3> now we have ati watts too
 55 2011-01-19 00:30:58 <ArtForz> official realase date is jan 25th
 56 2011-01-19 00:31:07 <Diablo-D3> or rather "our power throttling shit actually works" watts
 57 2011-01-19 00:31:11 <ArtForz> yep
 58 2011-01-19 00:31:30 <Diablo-D3> which can lead to hilarity
 59 2011-01-19 00:31:35 <ArtForz> instead of "our power throttling works, kinda, if your program happens to be named furmark.exe"
 60 2011-01-19 00:31:36 <Diablo-D3> since they can overshoot about 25%
 61 2011-01-19 00:32:10 <ArtForz> well, iirc AMD officially says so
 62 2011-01-19 00:32:22 <ArtForz> 6970 is 210W TDP, 250W peak
 63 2011-01-19 00:32:27 <Diablo-D3> yeah, at least they admit it
 64 2011-01-19 00:32:35 <ArtForz> and it actually makes sense
 65 2011-01-19 00:32:41 <ArtForz> TDP, Thermal Design Power
 66 2011-01-19 00:33:34 <ArtForz> for thermal design you're interested in max sustained thermal output
 67 2011-01-19 00:33:44 <LobsterMan> nice with these new nvidia drivers, im getting a slightly higher base hash rate
 68 2011-01-19 00:34:04 <ArtForz> sub-second peaks don't really figure into it
 69 2011-01-19 00:34:38 <LobsterMan> like 1-2mhash more per card XD
 70 2011-01-19 00:34:52 <ArtForz> for PSU sizing, you look at peak consumption
 71 2011-01-19 00:36:20 <ArtForz> and look AMD says 250W... which nobody so far managed to reach without adjusting power throttling
 72 2011-01-19 00:36:26 <ArtForz> looks more like it peaks ~230W at default power settings
 73 2011-01-19 00:36:27 <ArtForz> guess they left themselves some headroom for chip to chip variation
 74 2011-01-19 00:36:38 <ArtForz> nvidia doesn't even bother to give numbers like that
 75 2011-01-19 00:37:08 <ArtForz> yeah, its.. like... about 200W or so, give or take 50%
 76 2011-01-19 00:42:02 <theymos> I find these changes to the "block chain" article on the wiki to be totally inferior to the original version. Do you guys agree? https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Block_chain&action=historysubmit&diff=2368&oldid=550
 77 2011-01-19 00:42:16 <noagendamarket> hey theymos
 78 2011-01-19 00:42:22 <theymos> Hi.
 79 2011-01-19 00:42:53 <Kiba`> school had shorten my time to work on projects
 80 2011-01-19 00:43:01 <Kiba`> and I don't have any more jobs pipelined
 81 2011-01-19 00:43:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: I dunno, all of its bullshit anyhow
 82 2011-01-19 00:43:34 <Kiba`> the price crash in bitcoin was also a bumber
 83 2011-01-19 00:43:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: like, I dont want a quad core
 84 2011-01-19 00:43:52 <Diablo-D3> I want a single core thats 4x faster
 85 2011-01-19 00:44:09 <ArtForz> I want a pony
 86 2011-01-19 00:44:29 <Cusipzzz> i hate anyone who had a pony...
 87 2011-01-19 00:44:30 <Diablo-D3> well you'd think they'd be able to figure it out
 88 2011-01-19 00:44:44 <ArtForz> they... can't
 89 2011-01-19 00:45:01 <noagendamarket> Kiba its a good opportunity to buy
 90 2011-01-19 00:46:00 <Diablo-D3> they "cant" in the sense they wont
 91 2011-01-19 00:46:01 <ArtForz> anything decently complex on current process tech simply can't go faster than ~5GHz, unless you have a bazillion pilepilne stages
 92 2011-01-19 00:46:01 <Diablo-D3> it'd probably require designing the core physically 4x bigger
 93 2011-01-19 00:46:02 <ArtForz> and then you get a P4 on a modern process... yay!
 94 2011-01-19 00:46:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well even then
 95 2011-01-19 00:46:07 <Diablo-D3> I said _wider_
 96 2011-01-19 00:46:09 <ArtForz> errr... yes
 97 2011-01-19 00:46:21 <ArtForz> making it wider means longer critical paths
 98 2011-01-19 00:46:22 <Diablo-D3> its superscalar, add another ALU or some shit
 99 2011-01-19 00:46:26 <ArtForz> which means more capactiance
100 2011-01-19 00:46:32 <ArtForz> which means lower clock rate
101 2011-01-19 00:46:34 <Diablo-D3> then fine
102 2011-01-19 00:46:36 <Diablo-D3> make it simpler
103 2011-01-19 00:46:40 <Diablo-D3> and then jack the rate up
104 2011-01-19 00:47:12 <gigitrix> need RISC processors, x86/x64 is bloated like crazy...
105 2011-01-19 00:47:17 <ArtForz> bullshit
106 2011-01-19 00:47:24 <ArtForz> x86 is a damn efficient encoding
107 2011-01-19 00:47:33 <gigitrix> but for that the world needs to change
108 2011-01-19 00:47:36 <ArtForz> RISC uses more memory bandwidth and icache size for the same work
109 2011-01-19 00:47:42 <ArtForz> not really
110 2011-01-19 00:47:48 <Diablo-D3> gigitrix: you havent seen AMD's x86 decoder
111 2011-01-19 00:47:51 <Diablo-D3> its extremely efficient
112 2011-01-19 00:48:05 <ArtForz> *points at his 10 year old SGI running debian*
113 2011-01-19 00:48:06 <Diablo-D3> it only wastes about 25% of the core's die space (which is about half the total die space)
114 2011-01-19 00:48:20 <ArtForz> actually it's a LOT less nowadays
115 2011-01-19 00:48:25 <Diablo-D3> and it has no computational overhead on x86-64
116 2011-01-19 00:48:30 <ArtForz> caches now take up about 2/3 of the die
117 2011-01-19 00:48:30 <gigitrix> "Reduced instruction set computing, or RISC (pronounced /??rjsk/), is a CPU design  strategy based on the insight that simplified (as opposed to complex)  instructions can provide higher performance if this simplicity enables  much faster execution of each instruction." - I don't doubt that people have made it efficient, the fact remains that it contains some unneccessary instructions
118 2011-01-19 00:48:33 <Diablo-D3> (ia32 incurs shit ran in microcde)
119 2011-01-19 00:48:37 <gigitrix> which add complexity
120 2011-01-19 00:48:39 <Diablo-D3> gigitrix: wrong
121 2011-01-19 00:48:43 <ArtForz> not really
122 2011-01-19 00:48:45 <Diablo-D3> that does NOT explain why ARM is efficient
123 2011-01-19 00:48:50 <ArtForz> the complex crap gets split into uOps
124 2011-01-19 00:48:56 <gigitrix> i said RISC, not ARM
125 2011-01-19 00:49:08 <ArtForz> RISC is pretty much dead
126 2011-01-19 00:49:16 <Diablo-D3> ARM is the poster child of RISC designs
127 2011-01-19 00:49:19 <ArtForz> there is a reason why ARM added thumb mode
128 2011-01-19 00:49:39 <Diablo-D3> ARM is so fucking efficient because it has a very simple lock step pipeline that all instructions complete in one cycle
129 2011-01-19 00:49:54 <gigitrix> intel has a ton of money, but if over the years a different path had developed where they invested in RISC tech, we'd be far better off for power consumption/performance and cost/performance
130 2011-01-19 00:50:01 <ArtForz> nope
131 2011-01-19 00:50:03 <Diablo-D3> (this technically isnt true with some of the new op sets, but the designs are far more complex and you're paying for that)
132 2011-01-19 00:50:09 <Diablo-D3> gigitrix: wrong
133 2011-01-19 00:50:27 <Diablo-D3> Intel has repeatedly bombed their own RISC designs which they've spent hundreds of millions of dollars on
134 2011-01-19 00:50:27 <gigitrix> of course x86 is the one everything uses, the r&d all went there
135 2011-01-19 00:50:36 <Diablo-D3> they had two different, and both good, RISC designs
136 2011-01-19 00:50:36 <gigitrix> all of it
137 2011-01-19 00:50:38 <Diablo-D3> they killed them both
138 2011-01-19 00:50:42 <ArtForz> RISC *wastes* memory bandwith and Icache space compared to variable-length instruction encoding
139 2011-01-19 00:50:49 <gigitrix> i'm talking years and billions diable
140 2011-01-19 00:50:50 <Diablo-D3> and they also had an ARM license which they sold to Marvell (and now Marvell is fucking rich)
141 2011-01-19 00:51:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and no, RISC doesnt outright waste memory bandwidth
142 2011-01-19 00:51:10 <ArtForz> yes, it does
143 2011-01-19 00:51:13 <Diablo-D3> not directly.
144 2011-01-19 00:51:25 <Diablo-D3> you'd need to have tightly packed code that cannot be represented by simple ops
145 2011-01-19 00:51:44 <ArtForz> let's see... x86 mov [reg1], reg2 = 3 bytes, RISC ... 12 bytes
146 2011-01-19 00:51:57 <ArtForz> hey look, only 4 times bigger
147 2011-01-19 00:52:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: thats apples and oranges
148 2011-01-19 00:52:07 <ArtForz> can't see how that would waste space or bandwidth
149 2011-01-19 00:52:09 <Diablo-D3> not all RISC platforms have fixed length ops
150 2011-01-19 00:52:21 <ArtForz> errr... yes, they do
151 2011-01-19 00:52:33 <ArtForz> that is part of the classic definition of a RISC CPU
152 2011-01-19 00:52:34 <Diablo-D3> ARM without thumb does, yes
153 2011-01-19 00:52:34 <Kiba`> anybody wants me to do an avatar for 50 BTC?
154 2011-01-19 00:52:49 <ArtForz> which is why all the RISC fans chastise ARM for thumb mode
155 2011-01-19 00:53:18 <ArtForz> "OMG, they add different sized encodings, heresy!"
156 2011-01-19 00:54:02 <Diablo-D3> thumb is useful for high speed computation on local data sets
157 2011-01-19 00:54:14 <gigitrix> like i say, i was on about a ~theoretical~ machine based around the RISC philosophy on an alternate timeline, rather than the processors we have now with circuitry that is powered by never accessed due to compiler design
158 2011-01-19 00:54:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: what they really should have bitched about is the new instruction sets that have ops that take more than one cycle
159 2011-01-19 00:54:37 <Diablo-D3> ARM centric design can't handle that efficiently
160 2011-01-19 00:54:48 <ArtForz> have you tried timing any of the "crazy" x86 instructions?
161 2011-01-19 00:54:55 <ArtForz> they're slow as molasses
162 2011-01-19 00:55:08 <Diablo-D3> x86 has instructions that take more than one cycle
163 2011-01-19 00:55:16 <ArtForz> I wouldnt be surprised if they're actually emulated in software in a few generations
164 2011-01-19 00:55:20 <ArtForz> yep
165 2011-01-19 00:55:31 <Diablo-D3> theres a slow of instructions neither intel nor amd implement natively
166 2011-01-19 00:55:35 <Diablo-D3> they're microcode
167 2011-01-19 00:55:36 <ArtForz> pretty much anything that accesses memory
168 2011-01-19 00:55:57 <ArtForz> all simple arithmetic is usually single-cycle on x86 nowadays
169 2011-01-19 00:56:08 <ArtForz> something with a load/store, 2 cycles
170 2011-01-19 00:56:21 <ArtForz> something with a load *and* a store? 3 cycles
171 2011-01-19 00:56:30 <Diablo-D3> well the real problem is
172 2011-01-19 00:56:34 <Diablo-D3> RISC is too verbose
173 2011-01-19 00:56:52 <Diablo-D3> (ironic, huh?)
174 2011-01-19 00:56:58 <Diablo-D3> modern ARM has too many instructions
175 2011-01-19 00:57:24 <Diablo-D3> look at K10 internally
176 2011-01-19 00:57:32 <Diablo-D3> the microp language has an op for every single hardware feature
177 2011-01-19 00:57:34 <Diablo-D3> no more, no less
178 2011-01-19 00:57:37 <ArtForz> yep
179 2011-01-19 00:57:42 <ArtForz> well... you only need one instruction to be turing complete :P
180 2011-01-19 00:57:52 <Diablo-D3> yes, but you need about 3 not to fuck yourself
181 2011-01-19 00:58:24 <ArtForz> HCF
182 2011-01-19 00:58:39 <Diablo-D3> the point Im making though
183 2011-01-19 00:58:57 <Diablo-D3> RISC and CISC are both turning into Java
184 2011-01-19 00:59:07 <Diablo-D3> x86 has turned into some sort of bizzaro minimalistic bytecode
185 2011-01-19 00:59:12 <ArtForz> yep
186 2011-01-19 00:59:14 <Diablo-D3> no cpu natively executes it
187 2011-01-19 00:59:32 <ArtForz> iirc last native x86 was 486
188 2011-01-19 00:59:41 <Diablo-D3> no, pentium
189 2011-01-19 00:59:53 <Diablo-D3> pentium did mad instruction reordering to keep the second alu fed
190 2011-01-19 01:00:05 <ArtForz> weir, I couldV'e sworn original pentium already used microcode for some of the bizarro opcodes
191 2011-01-19 01:00:09 <Diablo-D3> and even 286s had microps for difficult instructions that should have never existed
192 2011-01-19 01:00:39 <Cusipzzz> my 8086 had a TURBO setting... 4.77Mhz baby.
193 2011-01-19 01:00:40 <ArtForz> nm
194 2011-01-19 01:00:52 <Diablo-D3> Cusipzzz: that was the native speed.
195 2011-01-19 01:00:53 <ArtForz> pentium was first CPU with *updateable* microcode
196 2011-01-19 01:00:59 <gigitrix> diablo I agree: you need to store and get variables, perform arithmatic, jump about a bit and do comparisons
197 2011-01-19 01:01:00 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah
198 2011-01-19 01:01:07 <Cusipzzz> Diablo-D3: orly? hmm.
199 2011-01-19 01:01:18 <gigitrix> the rest is the high level languages job :)
200 2011-01-19 01:01:22 <ArtForz> they should've named it the "SLOW" button
201 2011-01-19 01:01:24 <Diablo-D3> Cusipzzz: 8086 had a few variants, it was like 6, 4, and something else
202 2011-01-19 01:01:47 <Cusipzzz> Diablo-D3: dating myself, but memory is kinda foggy on it :)
203 2011-01-19 01:01:58 <Diablo-D3> my first box was a 8086
204 2011-01-19 01:02:30 <ArtForz> my first box was a ... hmm... can't really remember it... some kind of kit computer
205 2011-01-19 01:02:56 <Cusipzzz> i had a Franklin clone...an early hackintosh, if you will..
206 2011-01-19 01:03:34 <Cusipzzz> and then a 8086, only did 40 columns, had to use expansion card to get 80 columns
207 2011-01-19 01:03:57 <Diablo-D3> anyhow
208 2011-01-19 01:04:23 <Diablo-D3> I think the problem
209 2011-01-19 01:04:31 <ArtForz> *glances at his C64*
210 2011-01-19 01:04:33 <Diablo-D3> AMDs dont allow native k10 RISC usage
211 2011-01-19 01:04:46 <Diablo-D3> runtime compiled languages could really use that
212 2011-01-19 01:05:54 <Diablo-D3> and probably having a thumb mode wouldnt be so bad
213 2011-01-19 01:07:20 <Kiba`> man, I am hungry
214 2011-01-19 01:13:50 <andrew12> foo baz bar
215 2011-01-19 01:15:58 <tcatm> next attempt at building bitcoind for android
216 2011-01-19 01:17:02 <noagendamarket> Is anyone going to setup another server for a pooled mining project?
217 2011-01-19 01:17:15 <tcatm> Do we need one?
218 2011-01-19 01:18:10 <sgornick> tcatm: what if slush's ISP loses power?
219 2011-01-19 01:18:35 <tcatm> He could switch servers again
220 2011-01-19 01:18:46 <sgornick> he has redundant?
221 2011-01-19 01:18:48 <Diablo-D3> erm
222 2011-01-19 01:18:54 <Diablo-D3> you do realize he has that on a VPS right?
223 2011-01-19 01:20:42 <Kiba`> anybody want my mtgox dollars?
224 2011-01-19 01:20:44 <sgornick> Diablo-D3: Thx, no I was curious his configuration -- being that one connection represents 14 Ghash/s or thereabouts.
225 2011-01-19 01:21:09 <Diablo-D3> so?
226 2011-01-19 01:21:27 <Kiba`> time to sell my mtgox dollars!
227 2011-01-19 01:22:13 <Kiba`> I buy 10 BTC for 3.3 mtgox dollars!
228 2011-01-19 01:22:16 <Kiba`> err
229 2011-01-19 01:22:20 <Kiba`> 2.8 mtgox dollars
230 2011-01-19 01:23:05 <Kiba`> maybe not...
231 2011-01-19 01:23:44 <Kiba`> 2.28 mtgox dollars for 6.9 BTC
232 2011-01-19 01:24:08 <noagendamarket> How many mt gox dollars do you have?
233 2011-01-19 01:24:19 <Kiba`> noagendamarket: 2.28
234 2011-01-19 01:24:32 <sgornick> Diablo-D3: Single point of failure for all that capacity.  maybe it  gets up to 30% of hashing strength some day, ..., maybe that is 30% that could then be used against the network not to support the network.
235 2011-01-19 01:24:50 <Diablo-D3> sgornick: erm
236 2011-01-19 01:25:04 <Diablo-D3> that just means we all startup bitcoin and mine for ourselves for awhile
237 2011-01-19 01:25:48 <Kiba`> there's only one server because of the size of bitcoin population
238 2011-01-19 01:25:59 <Kiba`> bitcoiner population
239 2011-01-19 01:26:01 <Kiba`> which is not very big
240 2011-01-19 01:26:33 <Kiba`> 2092 members is a not a very big number
241 2011-01-19 01:26:51 <noagendamarket> Thats just the visible members :)
242 2011-01-19 01:27:26 <sgornick> well, hopefully there is a way to quickly spin up somewhere else should that become necessary.
243 2011-01-19 01:28:16 <Diablo-D3> sgornick: ....
244 2011-01-19 01:28:18 <noagendamarket> What sort of vps do you need for a pms ?
245 2011-01-19 01:28:26 <Diablo-D3> noagendamarket: one with a pad
246 2011-01-19 01:28:35 <noagendamarket> a chocolate one ?
247 2011-01-19 01:28:36 <noagendamarket> lol
248 2011-01-19 01:28:48 <Diablo-D3> and its bpm
249 2011-01-19 01:28:52 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin pooled mining
250 2011-01-19 01:30:47 <noagendamarket> blood pressure monitor?
251 2011-01-19 01:31:56 <ArtForz> beats per minute?
252 2011-01-19 01:32:21 <noagendamarket> ha
253 2011-01-19 01:32:54 <noagendamarket> what sort of load does a bpm put on a vps?
254 2011-01-19 01:34:08 <tcatm> IIRC 0.015/(Ghash/s)
255 2011-01-19 01:45:52 <noagendamarket> I wonder if hosting a server covers the cost of the vps...
256 2011-01-19 01:46:15 <noagendamarket> what sort of block rate does slush's server get?
257 2011-01-19 01:50:16 <mndrix> how does one find a server's balance with 0 confirmations? I tried "getbalance * 0" and "getbalance '' 0", but no luck
258 2011-01-19 01:52:17 <Cusipzzz> wait for 1 confirm =)
259 2011-01-19 01:52:55 <mndrix> i was afraid of that :-)
260 2011-01-19 01:53:18 <mndrix> i hit a race condition when transferring coins from one account to another, minconf=0 would solve it
261 2011-01-19 01:59:28 <CyanDynamo> have you guys seen this? http://vodo.net/pioneerone
262 2011-01-19 02:01:26 <noagendamarket> yes its propaganda
263 2011-01-19 02:01:55 <CyanDynamo> lol
264 2011-01-19 02:02:00 <CyanDynamo> oh rly?
265 2011-01-19 02:02:27 <Kiba`> we need truth
266 2011-01-19 02:02:37 <Kiba`> not information suited to our world views
267 2011-01-19 02:03:09 <Kiba`> but
268 2011-01-19 02:03:15 <Kiba`> people are not rigorious in their approach
269 2011-01-19 02:03:19 <noagendamarket> making heroes out of the DHS isnt my cup of tea
270 2011-01-19 02:03:22 <Kiba`> that probably can be said for anarchists as well
271 2011-01-19 02:03:30 <noagendamarket> that is all
272 2011-01-19 02:03:45 <presence> I have a "history" question
273 2011-01-19 02:03:52 <noagendamarket> its  apersonalm viewpoint
274 2011-01-19 02:04:08 <Kiba`> presence: does it pertain to your history class?
275 2011-01-19 02:04:15 <presence> I recently had a bitcoin payment that shows that "2 nodes" have unconfirmed
276 2011-01-19 02:04:26 <presence> first time I have seen anything other than confirmed
277 2011-01-19 02:04:37 <Kiba`> 2 nodes confirmed?
278 2011-01-19 02:04:42 <Kiba`> unconfirmed?
279 2011-01-19 02:04:46 <presence> 2/uncomfirmed
280 2011-01-19 02:04:50 <Kiba`> oh
281 2011-01-19 02:04:51 <presence> 2/unconfirmed
282 2011-01-19 02:05:01 <Kiba`> it's a payment that is yet unconfirmed?
283 2011-01-19 02:05:17 <presence> I have never seen a payment go unconfirmed before
284 2011-01-19 02:05:21 <presence> now I know how the system works
285 2011-01-19 02:05:37 <presence> what this appears to be is payment was attempted to be confirmed and 2 nodes rejected it
286 2011-01-19 02:05:55 <presence> Im concerned it might be a "double spend" even though it might not be unintentional
287 2011-01-19 02:05:56 <theymos> It hasn't been unconfirmed/rejected. Bitcoin just shows "unconfirmed" next to all transactions with fewer than 6 confirmations.
288 2011-01-19 02:06:14 <theymos> When something is really rejected, it just stays at 0 confirmations forever.
289 2011-01-19 02:06:19 <presence> ah, so over time I should get more confirmed
290 2011-01-19 02:06:37 <andrew12> yes
291 2011-01-19 02:06:39 <presence> so the 2 isnt a rejection, its 2 confirmed, but not enough confirmations to make it ensure that history is good
292 2011-01-19 02:06:40 <dooglus> presence: about once every 10 minutes you get an extra confirmation, as another block is generated
293 2011-01-19 02:06:58 <[Noodles]> and 2 is not a number of nodes, but blocks in chain after your transaction
294 2011-01-19 02:07:23 <presence> ok, so thats 2 nodes that signed my transaction (or the transaction to me)
295 2011-01-19 02:07:31 <presence> thats what I meant
296 2011-01-19 02:07:39 <presence> if it was considered invalid they would not sign
297 2011-01-19 02:07:42 <[Noodles]> no, it's 2 blocks including your transaction
298 2011-01-19 02:07:52 <[Noodles]> has nothing todo with number of nodes
299 2011-01-19 02:08:17 <presence> I understand.  Im reasonably new.
300 2011-01-19 02:08:29 <presence> Im still working with the syntax and naming.
301 2011-01-19 02:08:54 <presence> I just read the pdf for the design yesterday for the first time
302 2011-01-19 02:10:53 <Kiba`> bitcoin is still unpopular
303 2011-01-19 02:10:59 <Kiba`> but we welcome you with open arms
304 2011-01-19 02:11:02 <presence> as compared?
305 2011-01-19 02:11:17 <presence> for digital fiat money, I think its a forerunner, is it not?
306 2011-01-19 02:12:18 <Kiba`> fiat?
307 2011-01-19 02:12:23 <Kiba`> it's not by government decree!
308 2011-01-19 02:12:28 <presence> It has no intrinsic value
309 2011-01-19 02:12:47 <mndrix> workaround for my earlier question: `getbalance * 0` = `getbalance` + `listreceivedbyaccount 0` - `listreceivedbyaccount 1`
310 2011-01-19 02:13:03 <Kiba`> Fiat money is money that has value only because of government regulation or law.
311 2011-01-19 02:13:09 <Kiba`> that what wikipedia said
312 2011-01-19 02:13:27 <ArtForz> it's by code decree!
313 2011-01-19 02:13:49 <presence> Ok, I shouldn't have used fiat...but it has no intrinsic value on its own
314 2011-01-19 02:14:03 <ArtForz> imo nothing has intrinsic value
315 2011-01-19 02:14:18 <ArtForz> everything has value because someone else values it
316 2011-01-19 02:14:19 <kiba> ArtForz: you're confusing definition
317 2011-01-19 02:14:30 <presence> well gold can be used for stuff
318 2011-01-19 02:14:33 <kiba> intristiv value, meaning having value outside of money
319 2011-01-19 02:14:38 <Cusipzzz> oil, energy, food, has 'value'
320 2011-01-19 02:14:39 <ArtForz> so can arsenic
321 2011-01-19 02:14:39 <presence> you could make something that physically exists
322 2011-01-19 02:14:41 <Diablo-D3> *instrinic
323 2011-01-19 02:14:50 <presence> and be used as a "stepstool" in the worst case
324 2011-01-19 02:14:53 <Cusipzzz> universal value
325 2011-01-19 02:15:00 <ArtForz> yet we dont make money out of these
326 2011-01-19 02:15:10 <kiba> of course we don't
327 2011-01-19 02:15:12 <Cusipzzz> sure we do, we commoditize and securitize them
328 2011-01-19 02:15:16 <ArtForz> because something being useful doesnt mean it makes a good currency
329 2011-01-19 02:15:16 <kiba> they are not very useful as money
330 2011-01-19 02:15:18 <presence> But we could.
331 2011-01-19 02:15:19 <kiba> for food, we need to consume
332 2011-01-19 02:15:31 <kiba> food is blank! Gone!
333 2011-01-19 02:15:34 <presence> arsenic is used in alot of useful items
334 2011-01-19 02:16:19 <ArtForz> coal is pretty damn useful, yet you wouldnt want to carry half a ton of coal around for your daily shopping
335 2011-01-19 02:16:31 <presence> but it is useful on its own
336 2011-01-19 02:16:51 <presence> so if you wanted to make a currency out of it, you could
337 2011-01-19 02:16:56 <ArtForz> yeah
338 2011-01-19 02:16:59 <presence> it wouldnt be all that convenient
339 2011-01-19 02:17:05 <presence> its like salt in the old days right?
340 2011-01-19 02:17:06 <ArtForz> yep
341 2011-01-19 02:17:12 <ArtForz> yep
342 2011-01-19 02:17:21 <presence> personally, thats a pretty assinine currency, but it existed
343 2011-01-19 02:17:36 <kiba> we're worth it in salts!
344 2011-01-19 02:17:40 <ArtForz> or cou can create certificates exchangeable for a commodity
345 2011-01-19 02:17:40 <CyanDynamo> noagendamarket: no, i didn't like that either. i'm more talking about people supporting films through donations, downloading them through torrents.
346 2011-01-19 02:17:43 <Cusipzzz> tulips
347 2011-01-19 02:17:49 <presence> btc are entirely virtual, they can only be used for the specific purpose they are used for here
348 2011-01-19 02:17:54 <ArtForz> yep
349 2011-01-19 02:18:06 <ArtForz> so is classic fiat money
350 2011-01-19 02:18:12 <noagendamarket> I agree with that part Cyan
351 2011-01-19 02:18:30 <noagendamarket> however I donate to things I think are worthy
352 2011-01-19 02:18:30 <presence> well, in the case here in the US, its "Legal Tender for all debts public and private"
353 2011-01-19 02:18:41 <ArtForz> btw, bitcoin has other uses
354 2011-01-19 02:18:43 <CyanDynamo> there's actually a lot of political stuff on vodo
355 2011-01-19 02:18:50 <noagendamarket> I dont have a problem with other people donating
356 2011-01-19 02:18:50 <presence> without that, and the law behind it, it wouldnt be worth anything
357 2011-01-19 02:19:12 <kiba> do you think bitcoin could kill the dollars?
358 2011-01-19 02:19:30 <ArtForz> nah, but the chinese sure look like they're trying to
359 2011-01-19 02:19:32 <presence> nah, if the dollar dies, it dies due to the loss of backing for "Legal Tender for all debts public and  private"
360 2011-01-19 02:19:33 <ArtForz> it *is* a distributed timestamping system
361 2011-01-19 02:19:47 <ArtForz> *bitcoin is
362 2011-01-19 02:19:50 <kiba> hyperinflation
363 2011-01-19 02:19:51 <presence> art: well, the alg is...but not the bitcoin itself (at this point anyway)
364 2011-01-19 02:20:01 <ArtForz> well, the network is capable of it
365 2011-01-19 02:20:06 <presence> correct
366 2011-01-19 02:20:11 <kiba> if the US don't reform, it's dead
367 2011-01-19 02:20:13 <kiba> as money
368 2011-01-19 02:20:13 <presence> and thats awesome on its own for sure
369 2011-01-19 02:20:26 <kiba> hyperinflation can help bitcoin kill the dollars
370 2011-01-19 02:20:31 <kiba> and other currencies
371 2011-01-19 02:20:40 <ArtForz> yep
372 2011-01-19 02:20:45 <CyanDynamo> i'd like to believe hyperinflation will take down USD, but people have been saying that for a few years now
373 2011-01-19 02:20:52 <presence> Bitcoin will have to be way more accepted than it is today to challenge another currency that isnt already entirely broken
374 2011-01-19 02:20:53 <CyanDynamo> and so far, nothing like that has happened
375 2011-01-19 02:20:57 <presence> but it COULD do it
376 2011-01-19 02:21:09 <ArtForz> I see it more in a role of challenging other digital currencies
377 2011-01-19 02:21:18 <ArtForz> at least for the near future
378 2011-01-19 02:21:20 <kiba> CyanDynamo: it seem that we need to figure out the proper condition for hyperinflation
379 2011-01-19 02:21:32 <ArtForz> = webmoney, lr, c-gold, ...
380 2011-01-19 02:21:57 <kiba> printing money really fast and getting it to the hand of people can trigger hyperinflation really fast
381 2011-01-19 02:22:03 <kiba> now, it's stuck in banks
382 2011-01-19 02:22:38 <CyanDynamo> yeah, so they've effectively stalled hyperinflation, while giving themselves nice bonuses
383 2011-01-19 02:22:38 <kiba> the thing is
384 2011-01-19 02:22:43 <CyanDynamo> what a perfect system for the elite
385 2011-01-19 02:22:49 <kiba> the US economy is enormously productive and it get more each years
386 2011-01-19 02:22:50 <ArtForz> I'm actually kinda worried about the recent chinese rethoric
387 2011-01-19 02:23:11 <kiba> so it's actually hard to trigger hyperinflation
388 2011-01-19 02:23:36 <noagendamarket> The chinese recently fired a missile off the US coast...
389 2011-01-19 02:23:38 <kiba> if you have a trillion dollar economy, even 1% will be huge
390 2011-01-19 02:23:44 <noagendamarket> except it was kept quiet
391 2011-01-19 02:24:05 <kiba> The Chinese now think they're badass
392 2011-01-19 02:24:13 <ArtForz> yep
393 2011-01-19 02:24:27 <CyanDynamo> firing missiles is badass
394 2011-01-19 02:24:44 <noagendamarket> lol
395 2011-01-19 02:24:54 <ArtForz> I'm more worried about their economy than their missiles
396 2011-01-19 02:25:01 <presence> thanks for the help with the confirmations
397 2011-01-19 02:25:08 <kiba> ArtForz: a bad slump in the economy could trigger a war
398 2011-01-19 02:25:08 <noagendamarket> Has anyone seen all the empty cities that china is building?
399 2011-01-19 02:25:11 <presence> I didnt understand what the "status" field detail meant
400 2011-01-19 02:25:13 <kiba> noagendamarket: yes
401 2011-01-19 02:25:20 <ArtForz> yep
402 2011-01-19 02:25:32 <noagendamarket> maybe they are not going as well as it appears
403 2011-01-19 02:25:33 <CyanDynamo> they can build a 5 story hotel in like 2 fucking days
404 2011-01-19 02:26:05 <ArtForz> whatever the fuck they're doing, they're sure as hell doing it bigtime
405 2011-01-19 02:26:10 <kiba> noagendamarket: their sitatuion is a lot more fragile than us
406 2011-01-19 02:26:16 <kiba> than the US
407 2011-01-19 02:26:27 <ArtForz> not really
408 2011-01-19 02:26:28 <kiba> they have massive corruptions relative to the US and Europe
409 2011-01-19 02:26:38 <noagendamarket> they steal most of their tech
410 2011-01-19 02:26:48 <kiba> define "steal"
411 2011-01-19 02:26:49 <ArtForz> they also have a massive manufacturing economy
412 2011-01-19 02:26:59 <ArtForz> you mean "copy what you can, buy the rest"
413 2011-01-19 02:27:06 <noagendamarket> ya that
414 2011-01-19 02:27:07 <kiba> copying is not steal
415 2011-01-19 02:27:14 <CyanDynamo> indeed
416 2011-01-19 02:27:19 <kiba> it's copying, mkay?
417 2011-01-19 02:27:42 <noagendamarket> whatever you say...
418 2011-01-19 02:27:52 <noagendamarket> Im sure we dont understaqnd half of what goes on
419 2011-01-19 02:27:52 <presence> copying without investing is stealing
420 2011-01-19 02:27:58 <kiba> intellectual property is imaginary property
421 2011-01-19 02:28:02 <presence> but either way
422 2011-01-19 02:28:11 <kiba> noagendamarket: news in China is probably very distorted
423 2011-01-19 02:28:11 <presence> I do appreciate the clarification guys
424 2011-01-19 02:28:27 <ArtForz> probably, so is news everywhere else
425 2011-01-19 02:28:30 <kiba> well, news in the US is distorted for its viewers
426 2011-01-19 02:28:43 <kiba> propogranda for the right, the left, etc
427 2011-01-19 02:28:53 <kiba> Chinese is not very subtle
428 2011-01-19 02:28:59 <ArtForz> yep
429 2011-01-19 02:29:17 <ArtForz> in the west its more the "whatever gets the most eyes for ad $" kind of "bias"
430 2011-01-19 02:29:46 <kiba> everything, something is competing for influence
431 2011-01-19 02:29:52 <CyanDynamo> and propaganda, influence
432 2011-01-19 02:29:55 <kiba> it's just the west that have the more sophisticated version
433 2011-01-19 02:29:59 <presence> bbiab
434 2011-01-19 02:30:09 <CyanDynamo> there's like 5 corporations that own all the news in america
435 2011-01-19 02:30:14 <kiba> (yes, that include libertarianism)
436 2011-01-19 02:30:25 <CyanDynamo> whereas there used to be 50
437 2011-01-19 02:30:42 <ArtForz> random coincidence! move along.
438 2011-01-19 02:30:45 <ArtForz> ;)
439 2011-01-19 02:30:51 <kiba> you mean, TV news
440 2011-01-19 02:31:08 <CyanDynamo> no, print, too
441 2011-01-19 02:31:18 <ArtForz> yep
442 2011-01-19 02:31:19 <kiba> print is dying
443 2011-01-19 02:31:21 <kiba> anyway
444 2011-01-19 02:31:27 <ArtForz> bsd is dying
445 2011-01-19 02:31:39 <ArtForz> ;)
446 2011-01-19 02:31:39 <CyanDynamo> and their internet news outlets
447 2011-01-19 02:31:55 <kiba> New York Times
448 2011-01-19 02:32:04 <CyanDynamo> even if the nyt goes out of print, there will always be newyorktimes.com
449 2011-01-19 02:46:51 <andrew12> people are funny
450 2011-01-19 02:47:12 <andrew12> there's two people i know that i can't get to use bitcoin for two different reasons
451 2011-01-19 02:47:18 <andrew12> 1: "it's too new"
452 2011-01-19 02:47:38 <andrew12> 2: "it's too easily taken over" (they know nenolod..)
453 2011-01-19 02:47:54 <noagendamarket> woukld they refuse to drive a new car?
454 2011-01-19 02:47:59 <kiba> nenolod didn't take over anything, andrew12
455 2011-01-19 02:48:04 <andrew12> i know
456 2011-01-19 02:48:07 <andrew12> that's why it's stupid
457 2011-01-19 02:48:09 <noagendamarket> nenolod is full of shit
458 2011-01-19 02:48:16 <theymos> How is anyone even hearing about nenolod? It was news for about a week.
459 2011-01-19 02:48:29 <kiba> too "new" is a codeword for too young. Reasonable concern
460 2011-01-19 02:48:32 <noagendamarket> I say we should ddos nenolod lol
461 2011-01-19 02:48:34 <andrew12> theymos: they actually know nenolod from systeminplace
462 2011-01-19 02:48:37 <andrew12> noagendamarket: heh
463 2011-01-19 02:48:41 <kiba> too bad they will miss out on the gold rush if bitcoin proves successful
464 2011-01-19 02:48:53 <noagendamarket> take his site down...lol
465 2011-01-19 02:49:00 <ArtForz> I wonder how much more shit nenolod made up
466 2011-01-19 02:49:01 <noagendamarket> muwahahaha
467 2011-01-19 02:51:31 <kiba> skepticalism is great
468 2011-01-19 02:51:33 <ArtForz> let's see... adding (and removing !) like a 1000 nodes without anything showing up in the overall network hashrate, his claimed generation amounts making no sense, and then "accidentally" losing all generated coins
469 2011-01-19 02:51:36 <kiba> but it must be used correctly
470 2011-01-19 02:51:39 <ArtForz> ... yeah, right
471 2011-01-19 02:51:44 <kiba> or it can be a tool that is used against you
472 2011-01-19 02:52:11 <ArtForz> I mean, how much more blatant can you get
473 2011-01-19 02:52:18 <ArtForz> at least make up believeable shit
474 2011-01-19 02:52:23 <kiba> he is friend with Diablo-D3
475 2011-01-19 02:52:28 <ArtForz> so?
476 2011-01-19 02:52:31 <kiba> Diablo-D3: is your friend lying or not?
477 2011-01-19 02:54:17 <ArtForz> he may be a talented hacker, but either he's exaggerating like hell or simply making shit up to sound cool
478 2011-01-19 02:54:59 <kiba> and he didn't even attack the network
479 2011-01-19 02:55:04 <kiba> he just made it more resilent
480 2011-01-19 02:55:33 <kiba> idiots abound
481 2011-01-19 02:55:46 <ArtForz> or claimed to, his "adding of nodes" was exactly when we gained a huge # of new users from /.
482 2011-01-19 02:56:34 <ArtForz> on the day he claims he shut down all his nodes (at once!) network hashrate didn't even budge
483 2011-01-19 03:00:00 <andrew12> how often is http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/2011/01/19 updated?
484 2011-01-19 03:00:01 <kiba> I thought he was for real
485 2011-01-19 03:00:07 <kiba> just totally bullshit
486 2011-01-19 03:00:19 <kiba> real in generating bitcoin
487 2011-01-19 03:00:41 <ArtForz> you'll have to dig through the archives a bit, but his shit simply doesn't add up
488 2011-01-19 03:04:47 <kiba> boring
489 2011-01-19 03:05:09 <ArtForz> actually I find it quite amusing
490 2011-01-19 03:05:49 <ArtForz> no real drama
491 2011-01-19 03:06:06 <kiba> remember Macho?
492 2011-01-19 03:06:15 <ArtForz> mawho?
493 2011-01-19 03:06:36 <kiba> he called spectulators evil and got his ass obstracized forever...
494 2011-01-19 03:06:42 <kiba> basically he bombed his identity
495 2011-01-19 03:06:44 <ArtForz> oh, right
496 2011-01-19 03:06:48 <ArtForz> that was fun
497 2011-01-19 03:07:16 <nevezen> is this all on bitcoin's forums?
498 2011-01-19 03:07:20 <kiba> yes
499 2011-01-19 03:07:26 <ArtForz> yea, I think so
500 2011-01-19 03:07:36 <kiba> 200 posts a day is a lot of content, anyway
501 2011-01-19 03:07:48 <ArtForz> for some reason I like arguing with these people and picking their stories apart
502 2011-01-19 03:07:56 <ArtForz> actually... I reall just like arguing
503 2011-01-19 03:07:59 <ArtForz> *flashes troll badge*
504 2011-01-19 03:08:19 <kiba> all the socialists apperantly left
505 2011-01-19 03:08:21 <ArtForz> what? you think only troll police got nice shiny badges? ;)
506 2011-01-19 03:08:44 <kiba> socialists get driven out by relentless arguments
507 2011-01-19 03:08:47 <kiba> I think we got gene out too
508 2011-01-19 03:09:20 <kiba> socialists get counter-trolled
509 2011-01-19 03:09:23 <andrew12> http://pastebin.com/WtRmEYAD
510 2011-01-19 03:09:28 <andrew12> .-.
511 2011-01-19 03:09:45 <noagendamarket> yeah the socialists dont like the forum for some reason lol
512 2011-01-19 03:09:55 <kiba> they usually have the largest thread
513 2011-01-19 03:10:49 <Diablo-D3> kiba: huh?
514 2011-01-19 03:10:52 <kiba> only socialist I know is...........
515 2011-01-19 03:11:01 <kiba> Diablo-D3: for a while, their is the largest thread
516 2011-01-19 03:11:12 <Diablo-D3> no who was lying?
517 2011-01-19 03:11:22 <andrew12> nenolod
518 2011-01-19 03:11:37 <kiba> now, the largest thread is usually about mining
519 2011-01-19 03:12:14 <ArtForz> well, his claims sounded somewhat plausible, but got kinda discredited by reality
520 2011-01-19 03:12:26 <Diablo-D3> the only thing he ended up doing was exploiting how bitcoin works
521 2011-01-19 03:12:45 <ArtForz> exploiting? how? by adding 1000 imaginary nodes?
522 2011-01-19 03:12:50 <nevezen> aside from bitcoin, I still have doubts about passing through real currency though..
523 2011-01-19 03:13:14 <andrew12> I wonder if bitcoin's ever been reddited.
524 2011-01-19 03:13:19 <ArtForz> yep
525 2011-01-19 03:13:22 <ArtForz> iirc
526 2011-01-19 03:13:26 <kiba> andrew12: it got reddit several times
527 2011-01-19 03:13:32 <kiba> hacker news several times
528 2011-01-19 03:13:33 <ArtForz> we also got /. frontpage
529 2011-01-19 03:13:36 <Diablo-D3> noagendamarket
530 2011-01-19 03:13:37 <andrew12> how many people came here? :p
531 2011-01-19 03:13:42 <Diablo-D3> orly?
532 2011-01-19 03:13:49 <andrew12> Diablo-D3: how 2 joke
533 2011-01-19 03:13:49 <Diablo-D3> I'd like to see you try
534 2011-01-19 03:13:49 <kiba> andrew12: lot of people
535 2011-01-19 03:13:53 <noagendamarket> Diablo im firin my lazors lol
536 2011-01-19 03:14:09 <Diablo-D3> SIP is usually under some sort of ddos because of /b/tard faggots
537 2011-01-19 03:14:25 <nevezen> imho, bitcoin is somewhat run on an honor system
538 2011-01-19 03:14:26 <kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?action=stats
539 2011-01-19 03:14:27 <Diablo-D3> so unless you're going to go find about 50gbps of bandwidth to dos him with, dont bother
540 2011-01-19 03:15:24 <kiba> in July, we get 370 members
541 2011-01-19 03:15:35 <kiba> but enough so to generate nearly 5000 posts
542 2011-01-19 03:15:46 <kiba> this record was broken later in 4 months
543 2011-01-19 03:15:47 <nevezen> for example, someone sends another person 500 btc in exchange for service. The recipient didn't really agree to it and now the sender is out 500 btc.
544 2011-01-19 03:15:52 <kiba> with 6411
545 2011-01-19 03:16:17 <nevezen> that guy is not going to get a "refund"
546 2011-01-19 03:16:31 <theymos> nevezen: Use an escrow.
547 2011-01-19 03:16:34 <kiba> nevezen: but the opposite is paypal
548 2011-01-19 03:16:39 <kiba> and paypal is EVIL
549 2011-01-19 03:16:55 <nevezen> paypal may be evil but it's an acceptable middleman.
550 2011-01-19 03:17:09 <nevezen> maybe not to some people, I know..
551 2011-01-19 03:17:10 <ArtForz> nope
552 2011-01-19 03:17:15 <noagendamarket> heh
553 2011-01-19 03:17:21 <[Noodles]> how do you get a "refund" using cash? suppose you don't own guns
554 2011-01-19 03:17:22 <andrew12> bitcoin is an acceptable middleman
555 2011-01-19 03:17:47 <noagendamarket> its the credit card companies thats the real issue
556 2011-01-19 03:17:53 <nevezen> right, but the recipient of said bitcoins doesn't agree to it as a viable middleman
557 2011-01-19 03:17:56 <kiba> because bitcoin only cares about getting paid
558 2011-01-19 03:18:13 <kiba> noagendamarket: weak pin number
559 2011-01-19 03:18:22 <ArtForz> actually in my book CC companies are not as big a bunch of wankers as paypal are
560 2011-01-19 03:18:37 <noagendamarket> they wank together
561 2011-01-19 03:18:56 <kiba> anybody want me to do something for them?
562 2011-01-19 03:18:58 <andrew12> ooh, got 0.14 from the pool
563 2011-01-19 03:19:01 <kiba> I can make avatar
564 2011-01-19 03:19:07 <kiba> anime style
565 2011-01-19 03:19:26 <kiba> many of you don't have avatar
566 2011-01-19 03:19:31 <ArtForz> well, at least CC companies you have decent written rules as a merchant, known periods funds are held on disputes, ...
567 2011-01-19 03:19:33 <lfm> noodles true you cant generally force a refund of cash but you are vulnerable to forgery
568 2011-01-19 03:19:54 <ArtForz> with paypal it's "hey, we just froze your account because we feel like it, go fuck yourself."
569 2011-01-19 03:20:04 <noagendamarket> heh
570 2011-01-19 03:20:20 <noagendamarket> but they have pal in their name they cant be evil....
571 2011-01-19 03:20:42 <kiba> paypal benefits from the network effect
572 2011-01-19 03:20:44 <ArtForz> *points at bonzibuddy*
573 2011-01-19 03:20:53 <nevezen> didn't you get it all back, artforz?
574 2011-01-19 03:21:12 <ArtForz> yep, after threating em with a lawsuit
575 2011-01-19 03:21:25 <nevezen> do you still use paypal though? I'm guessing not..
576 2011-01-19 03:21:29 <ArtForz> nope
577 2011-01-19 03:21:44 <ArtForz> I'm banned from paypal forever
578 2011-01-19 03:21:51 <andrew12> o_o
579 2011-01-19 03:22:10 <kiba> rofl
580 2011-01-19 03:22:15 <kiba> jgarzik: do you have work for me?
581 2011-01-19 03:22:47 <jgarzik> kiba: yeah: finish that prediction market :)
582 2011-01-19 03:22:59 <jgarzik> kiba: and I'll get pastecoin back up
583 2011-01-19 03:23:02 <kiba> :(
584 2011-01-19 03:23:39 <kiba> I got school tommorow...
585 2011-01-19 03:24:00 <noagendamarket> jgarzik are you going to run one yoursefl?
586 2011-01-19 03:24:34 <andrew12> nini
587 2011-01-19 03:24:51 <jgarzik> noagendamarket: I would rather have the profit motive create more than one new pool.  It is not unreasonable to kick back a couple percent to the pool owner.
588 2011-01-19 03:25:05 <noagendamarket> agreed
589 2011-01-19 03:25:08 <grondilu> I have 5 connections and yet one of my transactions stays in "0/unconfirmed" status.  How long before the sotware resends it ?
590 2011-01-19 03:25:22 <noagendamarket> communism is fail
591 2011-01-19 03:25:25 <kiba> noagendamarket: do ya know how to code?
592 2011-01-19 03:25:45 <noagendamarket> does it require more than copy and paste?
593 2011-01-19 03:25:49 <kiba> yes
594 2011-01-19 03:25:51 <theymos> grondilu: ~30 minutes.
595 2011-01-19 03:25:56 <noagendamarket> the answer is no.
596 2011-01-19 03:25:57 <jgarzik> I wonder about the value of CPU miners to slush's pool as more GPU miners join
597 2011-01-19 03:26:02 <kiba> because your discount system is fail
598 2011-01-19 03:26:10 <grondilu> theymos: thks, I'll wait
599 2011-01-19 03:26:20 <kiba> (no offense, but it's the brutual truth)
600 2011-01-19 03:26:40 <jgarzik> beyond a certain point, it seems like CPU miners receive charity from GPU miners in the pool.
601 2011-01-19 03:27:02 <noagendamarket> why is that?
602 2011-01-19 03:27:10 <kiba> jgarzik: no, it's compensation for satisfying the GPU miners' time preference
603 2011-01-19 03:27:33 <tcatm> it's not like CPU miners will find less blocks than before...
604 2011-01-19 03:27:36 <kiba> they get compensated with minicule amount anyway
605 2011-01-19 03:27:52 <noagendamarket> have you seen what amazon pays?
606 2011-01-19 03:28:04 <kiba> noagendamarket: no
607 2011-01-19 03:28:12 <kiba> and what does amazon have to do with anything?
608 2011-01-19 03:28:22 <noagendamarket> well you cant make a claim like that without the numbers
609 2011-01-19 03:28:27 <lfm> cpu rewards depend on the bitcoin difficulty, not (directly) on gpus working along side them
610 2011-01-19 03:28:42 <kiba> noagendamarket: if you're talking about discount...contact form is very manual
611 2011-01-19 03:29:15 <kiba> you do get paid for amazon discount thingie, right?
612 2011-01-19 03:29:26 <noagendamarket> have you ever used a rebate program ?
613 2011-01-19 03:29:35 <kiba> no
614 2011-01-19 03:29:50 <noagendamarket> try getting money back from one of those and then come back and tell me if youre successful
615 2011-01-19 03:30:04 <kiba> noagendamarket: I meant automation
616 2011-01-19 03:30:06 <noagendamarket> It is practically impossilble
617 2011-01-19 03:30:27 <noagendamarket> that wont work....I have to confirm it a wekk later
618 2011-01-19 03:30:40 <kiba> one of them is bound to be reliable, noagendamarket
619 2011-01-19 03:30:49 <lfm> noagenda market I have got rebates, just seems to take forever
620 2011-01-19 03:31:19 <noagendamarket> the reason is that you have to match purchases with the purchasers
621 2011-01-19 03:31:58 <kiba> does one of them have an API?
622 2011-01-19 03:32:27 <noagendamarket> Not for their associates they dont
623 2011-01-19 03:32:32 <kiba> if it possible, than it can be done programatically
624 2011-01-19 03:32:59 <noagendamarket> I dont find out till a week after someone has bought something
625 2011-01-19 03:33:06 <kiba> ugh
626 2011-01-19 03:33:07 <kiba> terrible
627 2011-01-19 03:33:12 <tcatm> fscking windows. Can't even handle symlinks right :/
628 2011-01-19 03:33:19 <kiba> this is not 1999!
629 2011-01-19 03:34:52 <noagendamarket> bitcoin is the best rewards program ever lol
630 2011-01-19 03:35:15 <kiba> hmm?
631 2011-01-19 03:37:09 <noagendamarket> you can pay out microrewards without it costing you to run the reward program
632 2011-01-19 03:37:31 <noagendamarket> imagine if I had to pay 3% at paypal every time
633 2011-01-19 03:37:59 <noagendamarket> thats almost the entire profit margin lol
634 2011-01-19 03:38:28 <andrew12> hehe
635 2011-01-19 03:39:17 <noagendamarket> I have an obvious domain name for a mining server
636 2011-01-19 03:39:42 <noagendamarket> I wonder why no one has used it yet lol
637 2011-01-19 03:40:26 <andrew12> "obvious domain" ?
638 2011-01-19 03:41:06 <noagendamarket> yep
639 2011-01-19 03:41:21 <CyanDynamo> bitcoinminer.com
640 2011-01-19 03:41:30 <noagendamarket> no...
641 2011-01-19 03:41:43 <noagendamarket> although thats obvious lol
642 2011-01-19 03:41:46 <andrew12> coalminesrus.com
643 2011-01-19 03:41:51 <andrew12> err..
644 2011-01-19 03:41:51 <noagendamarket> haha
645 2011-01-19 03:42:55 <CyanDynamo> miningserver.com
646 2011-01-19 03:43:12 <andrew12> google.com
647 2011-01-19 03:43:47 <noagendamarket> http://www.bitcoinminer.com/   it already exists anyway...
648 2011-01-19 03:44:11 <noagendamarket> I bet youll hit yourself in the forehead when you think of it lol
649 2011-01-19 03:45:07 <andrew12> noagendaminer?
650 2011-01-19 03:45:15 <noagendamarket> heh
651 2011-01-19 03:45:41 <noagendamarket> I dont mine so why would i want that? lol
652 2011-01-19 03:46:06 <CyanDynamo> miner.com
653 2011-01-19 03:48:58 <andrew12> ;;bc,pool
654 2011-01-19 03:48:59 <gribble> Error: "bc,pool" is not a valid command.
655 2011-01-19 03:49:06 <andrew12> hmm
656 2011-01-19 03:49:11 <andrew12> ;;list alias
657 2011-01-19 03:49:12 <gribble> ?, about, add, bc,bcm, bc,blocks, bc,btcex, bc,calc, bc,calcd, bc,diff, bc,estimate, bc,help, bc,hextarget, bc,labs, bc,lbs, bc,markets, bc,mtgox, bc,nexttarget, bc,poolstats, bc,stats, bc,timetonext, bc,totalbc, bc,wiki, blockmonitor, bot, botsnack, boturl, cheer, configure, ctell, direct, factlist, facts, getprefix, give, giveout, h, help, histsearch, hug, isitdown, lock, ls, mp, (1 more message)
658 2011-01-19 03:49:31 <andrew12> ;;bc,poolstats
659 2011-01-19 03:49:32 <gribble> {"round_probability": 28.41, "hashes_ps": 17812838781, "shares": 6163, "active_workers": 333, "round_duration": "0:24:46", "round_started": "2011-01-19 04:24:45", "getwork_ps": 112}
660 2011-01-19 03:50:20 <andrew12> 333 make a wish? :p
661 2011-01-19 03:56:22 <andrew12> hmm, what does the pool do with tx fees it recieves?
662 2011-01-19 03:56:45 <jgarzik> presumably adds it to the total, before payout
663 2011-01-19 03:56:55 <andrew12> cool
664 2011-01-19 04:03:21 <andrew12> Satoshi Nakamoto's done a good job of remaining anonymous
665 2011-01-19 04:07:32 <soultcer> andrew12: Are you sure that Satoshi Nakamoto is even real?
666 2011-01-19 04:07:41 <andrew12> true
667 2011-01-19 04:08:04 <andrew12> i should probably try going to sleep
668 2011-01-19 04:08:43 <andrew12> nini
669 2011-01-19 04:12:03 <noagendamarket> Satoshi is a mythical creature
670 2011-01-19 04:12:08 <noagendamarket> like the tooth fairy
671 2011-01-19 04:14:06 <lfm> oh? what software project(s) is the tooth fairy working on?
672 2011-01-19 04:14:55 <noagendamarket> children?
673 2011-01-19 04:15:05 <noagendamarket> are they open source tho?
674 2011-01-19 04:15:08 <noagendamarket> hmm
675 2011-01-19 04:17:26 <CyanDynamo> tooth fairy is foss?
676 2011-01-19 04:18:32 <noagendamarket> heh
677 2011-01-19 04:19:51 <noagendamarket> people believe in sky creatures that do magical things so its possible
678 2011-01-19 04:20:52 <noagendamarket> yet mention bitcoin and they go "I cant believe it" lol
679 2011-01-19 04:21:23 <kiba> noagendamarket: it's like cryonic
680 2011-01-19 04:22:16 <noagendamarket> if you smoke chronic that explains it
681 2011-01-19 04:22:33 <kiba> no
682 2011-01-19 04:22:47 <noagendamarket> *was joking
683 2011-01-19 04:22:51 <kiba> bitcoin is like cryonic in the sense that it's a good idea but people have unbeliavable skepticism
684 2011-01-19 04:23:27 <noagendamarket> yet they believe in government....
685 2011-01-19 04:23:33 <noagendamarket> without question
686 2011-01-19 04:24:45 <kiba> why? they have power
687 2011-01-19 04:24:54 <kiba> and they have a huge ass army
688 2011-01-19 04:25:12 <noagendamarket> no theres a difference between belief and fear
689 2011-01-19 04:25:32 <kiba> and schools to indoctrinate children with mytical ideas like democracy can work
690 2011-01-19 04:26:03 <kiba> did ya know, most Americans hate congress?
691 2011-01-19 04:26:13 <kiba> but probably love their congressman?
692 2011-01-19 04:26:18 <kiba> they like the guy they voted into congress
693 2011-01-19 04:27:02 <kiba> but not congress as a whole
694 2011-01-19 04:27:09 <noagendamarket> I dont presume to know what americans believe
695 2011-01-19 04:27:38 <kiba> noagendamarket: it's logics that I based on attending a government class
696 2011-01-19 04:27:50 <kiba> they tell you these stuff
697 2011-01-19 04:27:58 <kiba> most congressman get re-elected
698 2011-01-19 04:28:16 <kiba> but they can't vote out other people's congressmen
699 2011-01-19 04:28:28 <kiba> ya see?
700 2011-01-19 04:28:36 <kiba> also, American's political knowledge are scant and compartmenized. They don't know what they want
701 2011-01-19 04:28:40 <kiba> you see, it's not because America is ruled by corporations...but by an ignorant public
702 2011-01-19 04:29:01 <noagendamarket> well....
703 2011-01-19 04:29:25 <kiba> American voters like pork belly projects for THEIR district
704 2011-01-19 04:29:38 <CyanDynamo> i think it's both
705 2011-01-19 04:29:41 <kiba> but not the other guys
706 2011-01-19 04:29:49 <noagendamarket> yeah they are no different to voters in other parts of the world
707 2011-01-19 04:29:55 <CyanDynamo> you should vote for some random district each year, not yours
708 2011-01-19 04:30:00 <CyanDynamo> see how things go then
709 2011-01-19 04:30:13 <noagendamarket> I dont vote at all
710 2011-01-19 04:30:22 <CyanDynamo> neither do i
711 2011-01-19 04:30:30 <noagendamarket> even though its illegal not to in australia
712 2011-01-19 04:30:32 <CyanDynamo> lol really?
713 2011-01-19 04:30:36 <noagendamarket> yes
714 2011-01-19 04:30:58 <noagendamarket> They fine you for it
715 2011-01-19 04:31:17 <noagendamarket> They make good toilet paper
716 2011-01-19 04:31:30 <noagendamarket> the fines do lol
717 2011-01-19 04:31:42 <kiba> how come your country is like the only western nation to censor stuff?
718 2011-01-19 04:31:50 <kiba> well
719 2011-01-19 04:31:52 <kiba> not
720 2011-01-19 04:31:53 <kiba> but ya know
721 2011-01-19 04:32:05 <kiba> have the worst free speech "right"
722 2011-01-19 04:32:40 <noagendamarket> thats a myth
723 2011-01-19 04:32:42 <noagendamarket> kiba
724 2011-01-19 04:32:54 <kiba> it's not?
725 2011-01-19 04:32:58 <kiba> you got the whole filtering thing
726 2011-01-19 04:33:10 <noagendamarket> no thats a lie
727 2011-01-19 04:33:23 <kiba> ?
728 2011-01-19 04:33:26 <noagendamarket> we stopped them doing it
729 2011-01-19 04:33:45 <noagendamarket> because aussies are not docile lol
730 2011-01-19 04:34:21 <kiba> they got voted out?
731 2011-01-19 04:34:41 <noagendamarket> well the prime minister got sacked
732 2011-01-19 04:34:48 <noagendamarket> by his own party
733 2011-01-19 04:34:53 <noagendamarket> because he was a retard
734 2011-01-19 04:35:07 <noagendamarket> we have a hung parliament at the moment
735 2011-01-19 04:35:16 <noagendamarket> so none of them can do anything
736 2011-01-19 04:35:18 <noagendamarket> :)
737 2011-01-19 04:36:20 <kiba> why was he such a retard?
738 2011-01-19 04:36:39 <noagendamarket> he is a politicain?
739 2011-01-19 04:36:50 <noagendamarket> what other explanation do you need?
740 2011-01-19 04:36:57 <kiba> why?
741 2011-01-19 04:37:02 <kiba> didn't the party like him
742 2011-01-19 04:37:05 <kiba> what did he do?
743 2011-01-19 04:38:18 <noagendamarket> he was voted out by his own party
744 2011-01-19 04:38:31 <kiba> why?
745 2011-01-19 04:39:04 <noagendamarket> because his popularity ratings were worse than anyone elses
746 2011-01-19 04:39:05 <lfm> so the rest of his party was smart? arnt they polititians too?
747 2011-01-19 04:39:25 <kiba> noagendamarket: so why his popularity rating were worse than anyone else?
748 2011-01-19 04:40:44 <noagendamarket> because people stopped believing his pr
749 2011-01-19 04:40:54 <kiba> why did they stop beliving his pr?
750 2011-01-19 04:41:44 <noagendamarket> he introduced lots of programs that failed
751 2011-01-19 04:41:49 <kiba> like what?
752 2011-01-19 04:41:57 <kiba> what are they meant to accomplish?
753 2011-01-19 04:42:16 <noagendamarket> for instance they had a home insulation scheme which went badly
754 2011-01-19 04:42:26 <kiba> went badly?
755 2011-01-19 04:42:30 <noagendamarket> people started rorting it
756 2011-01-19 04:42:43 <lfm> I think i heard about some internet cencorship programs that kinda fell apart
757 2011-01-19 04:42:46 <noagendamarket> they installed insulation that caused house fires
758 2011-01-19 04:42:55 <ArtForz> l??l
759 2011-01-19 04:43:00 <noagendamarket> and people died
760 2011-01-19 04:43:17 <kiba> so what other programs that failed?
761 2011-01-19 04:43:22 <noagendamarket> all of them
762 2011-01-19 04:43:31 <kiba> be more specific
763 2011-01-19 04:43:36 <noagendamarket> they wasted money on school buildings
764 2011-01-19 04:43:43 <kiba> how?
765 2011-01-19 04:43:57 <noagendamarket> well schools that were supposed to be demolished
766 2011-01-19 04:44:10 <noagendamarket> they got brand new awnings on the front
767 2011-01-19 04:44:18 <noagendamarket> but the building was rotten lol
768 2011-01-19 04:44:40 <kiba> rofl
769 2011-01-19 04:44:52 <ArtForz> shrug, thats pretty normal around here
770 2011-01-19 04:44:53 <noagendamarket> there is also the internet censorship plan
771 2011-01-19 04:45:07 <noagendamarket> haha
772 2011-01-19 04:45:17 <noagendamarket> bbl
773 2011-01-19 04:46:33 <ArtForz> seriously, wasting shitloads of money on buildings like that is pretty common
774 2011-01-19 04:47:27 <ArtForz> they reroofed a complete building here, *after* finding out the whole interior was a asbestos debacle
775 2011-01-19 04:47:56 <ArtForz> but when they found that out, the contracts for the reroofing were already written
776 2011-01-19 04:48:12 <ArtForz> yeah, that building got a new roof, then got demolished
777 2011-01-19 04:48:17 <kiba> ROFL
778 2011-01-19 04:48:40 <ArtForz> aka *facepalm*
779 2011-01-19 04:48:53 <nanotube> ArtForz: haha couldn't they just hold the contract work until new building was built, and have the guys put the roof on a new building?
780 2011-01-19 04:49:12 <kiba> nanotube: but then they'll be out of business
781 2011-01-19 04:49:17 <ArtForz> well, but you see, that would require actual thought
782 2011-01-19 04:49:22 <nanotube> kiba: who they?
783 2011-01-19 04:49:26 <kiba> the roofer
784 2011-01-19 04:49:38 <ArtForz> not really, the roofer was just like "wtf?!?"
785 2011-01-19 04:49:40 <kiba> if they depend on the contract to help them stay affloat
786 2011-01-19 04:49:40 <nanotube> no, roofer just goes and does something else, then comes back when job site is ready
787 2011-01-19 04:50:31 <kiba> it's government building anyway
788 2011-01-19 04:50:35 <kiba> still a waste of money
789 2011-01-19 04:50:44 <nanotube> further, i'd think contract law does allow backing out of a contract, possibly with some compensation payment etc... especially if no work was done yet.
790 2011-01-19 04:50:56 <ArtForz> yep, it does
791 2011-01-19 04:51:11 <ArtForz> but for that to happen, someone would actually have to feel responsible
792 2011-01-19 04:51:25 <kiba> whatever
793 2011-01-19 04:51:27 <kiba> it's not my money
794 2011-01-19 04:51:31 <ArtForz> yep
795 2011-01-19 04:51:48 <ArtForz> thats the general problem
796 2011-01-19 04:53:48 <ArtForz> kinda fun: in .de we actually have a org collecting cases of waste of taxpayer money
797 2011-01-19 04:54:28 <ArtForz> releasing a annual list of the craziest cases
798 2011-01-19 04:54:28 <nanotube> ArtForz: right, the "opm principle" (other people's money)
799 2011-01-19 04:55:21 <ArtForz> yep
800 2011-01-19 04:56:12 <kiba> anyway
801 2011-01-19 04:56:13 <kiba> good night
802 2011-01-19 04:56:20 <lfm> bye
803 2011-01-19 07:35:51 <noagendamarket> woot
804 2011-01-19 07:52:23 <niekie> woot?
805 2011-01-19 07:57:49 <nevezen> fluff.
806 2011-01-19 08:15:19 <nathan7> woot.
807 2011-01-19 08:20:55 <niekie> Hi slush :)
808 2011-01-19 08:25:47 <slush> hi
809 2011-01-19 08:35:04 <noobdearia> hey slush, thanks for the bitcoins from your pooled mining server ^_^
810 2011-01-19 08:36:06 <noobdearia> slush: What is the bandwidth like on the pooled mining server?
811 2011-01-19 08:37:40 <sipa> slush: hope you don't mind i switched to 2% now i'm running a 5970... in absolute terms you'll still get more :)
812 2011-01-19 08:38:20 <noagendamarket> does anyone know the bandwidth needs for the pooled server?
813 2011-01-19 08:38:50 <noobdearia> noagendamarket, You're trying to steal my question, eh?  I asked first!
814 2011-01-19 08:38:58 <noagendamarket> hehe
815 2011-01-19 08:39:17 <noagendamarket> well slush isnt the only one who knows is he? lol
816 2011-01-19 08:39:19 <noobdearia> A couple hours ago I asked a question in ##php and a minute later after I got an answer, someone asked the same question.  O_O
817 2011-01-19 08:39:36 <slush> monthly transfers are ~400GB
818 2011-01-19 08:40:02 <slush> sipa: thanks ;)
819 2011-01-19 08:40:04 <noobdearia> Oh?  that's quite a bit.  What causes most of the bandwidth?
820 2011-01-19 08:40:08 <noagendamarket> thats a lot
821 2011-01-19 08:40:28 <sipa> 100 getworks/s is quite a lot :)
822 2011-01-19 08:40:31 <slush> yes, it is. I'm working on push based protocol, which should improve that
823 2011-01-19 08:40:44 <noagendamarket> xmpp ?
824 2011-01-19 08:40:51 <sipa> irc!
825 2011-01-19 08:40:56 <noagendamarket> heh
826 2011-01-19 08:41:00 <noagendamarket> of course
827 2011-01-19 08:41:06 <noagendamarket> *slaps foreheaD
828 2011-01-19 08:41:24 <slush> I considered also xmpp, but it is quite slow
829 2011-01-19 08:41:31 <slush> parsing xml and so...
830 2011-01-19 08:41:38 <slush> Probably something like comet
831 2011-01-19 08:41:50 <slush> I think also about pure TCP streams, not HTTP, which is quite ineffective
832 2011-01-19 08:42:22 <sipa> if bandwidth is a problem, i'd say switch to a binary protocol as well
833 2011-01-19 08:42:26 <slush> yes
834 2011-01-19 08:42:36 <sipa> maybe even compressed
835 2011-01-19 08:42:47 <slush> getwork is ineffective, too many zeros and other unnecessary bytes
836 2011-01-19 08:42:51 <ArtForz> won't help
837 2011-01-19 08:42:54 <niekie> Then there's still the problem of getting miners to work with it :)
838 2011-01-19 08:43:02 <ArtForz> 90% of the block header is hashes
839 2011-01-19 08:43:12 <slush> I think I'll patch m0mchil as reference implementation
840 2011-01-19 08:43:28 <ArtForz> = it aint compress in binary
841 2011-01-19 08:43:38 <slush> and make local proxy for standard getwork
842 2011-01-19 08:43:54 <niekie> slush: ah, that'd work.
843 2011-01-19 08:44:02 <slush> so nieke can install it locally and still use jgarzik's :)
844 2011-01-19 08:44:27 <slush> ArtForz: 90% of data are http headers and zeros
845 2011-01-19 08:46:51 <ArtForz> with current getwork, yes
846 2011-01-19 08:46:55 <sipa> but http headers won't be compressed
847 2011-01-19 08:47:00 <ArtForz> with a proper binary protocol, nope
848 2011-01-19 08:47:14 <sipa> and with a smarter protocol, you'd be able to get rid of the zeroes i think
849 2011-01-19 08:47:17 <niekie> Hm, turns out a worker I thought was dead was actually still running, it just hadn't put in work for a time.
850 2011-01-19 08:47:20 <sipa> s/smarter/more specific/