1 2011-02-06 00:00:01 <newsham> "closing price" and "today" ? :)
  2 2011-02-06 00:00:02 <Kiba> no
  3 2011-02-06 00:00:35 <newsham> do you mean midnight gmt?
  4 2011-02-06 00:00:48 <molecular> hehe
  5 2011-02-06 00:01:01 <Kiba> yeah
  6 2011-02-06 00:01:08 <Kiba> I just like the higher price
  7 2011-02-06 00:01:15 <newsham> i wonder if we'll break $1 before the superbowl's done
  8 2011-02-06 00:01:16 <Kiba> it means that my saving is 650 dollars worth of bitcoin
  9 2011-02-06 00:01:16 <molecular> I'd like a volume-weighted daily average
 10 2011-02-06 00:01:16 <newsham> some video of babbage machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0anIyVGeWOI
 11 2011-02-06 00:01:59 <molecular> every day would be nice ;)
 12 2011-02-06 00:04:18 <Kiba> is this the most rapid rise in price or what?
 13 2011-02-06 00:04:27 <newsham> you should be able to get that with bitcoincharts
 14 2011-02-06 00:04:43 <newsham> anyway, i get 0.854390271812 for last 24hrs
 15 2011-02-06 00:04:55 <newsham> but last 24hrs was not very volatile :)
 16 2011-02-06 00:05:14 <newsham> wait, i didnt update my db for recent quotes yet..heh oops
 17 2011-02-06 00:05:24 <newsham> 0.864390400556
 18 2011-02-06 00:06:51 <Kiba> I been inspired to gobble as much knowledge and as much bitcoin as I can
 19 2011-02-06 00:07:09 <newsham> bitcoincharts should have some option to show you some volume weighted averages over time (prob exponentially decaying over time)
 20 2011-02-06 00:07:10 <Kiba> in 4 years worth of free time
 21 2011-02-06 00:07:42 <Kiba> so we're a 4.8 million dollars economy
 22 2011-02-06 00:08:07 <newsham> bitcoin is?
 23 2011-02-06 00:08:12 <Kiba> yeah
 24 2011-02-06 00:08:32 <newsham> uhh.. not quite.
 25 2011-02-06 00:08:55 <Kiba> that what bitcoinwatch.com says
 26 2011-02-06 00:09:29 <newsham> you're misinterpretting.  it says how many bitcoins were ever generated and what the current market price is.
 27 2011-02-06 00:09:52 <newsham> but if you wer to sell more than 13k btc on mtgox you'd blow through the published order book
 28 2011-02-06 00:09:53 <Kiba> or 4815867 USD
 29 2011-02-06 00:09:55 <Kiba> not at all
 30 2011-02-06 00:10:52 <newsham> if you had 20k btc and wanted to sell it all in the next few days, you'd get much less than 85c/btc
 31 2011-02-06 00:11:20 <newsham> (though if all the orders in the published mtgox book cleared, you could at least get 75c for 13k of them)
 32 2011-02-06 00:11:26 <Kiba> so? It's just the market price
 33 2011-02-06 00:11:44 <Kiba> err
 34 2011-02-06 00:11:45 <Kiba> cap
 35 2011-02-06 00:12:14 <newsham> kiba: right, so how can you say that is the value of all of those bitcoins?
 36 2011-02-06 00:12:18 <Kiba> yeah, if you sell lot of bitcoin, you blow right through the published order books
 37 2011-02-06 00:12:26 <Kiba> newsham: why? it's fun.
 38 2011-02-06 00:12:44 <newsham> you cant exchange all those bitcoins for $4.8M, nor can you buy $4.8M worth of goods with them
 39 2011-02-06 00:12:52 <Kiba> ...
 40 2011-02-06 00:12:55 <Kiba> nitpicky
 41 2011-02-06 00:13:05 <Kiba> that what bitcoinwatch says
 42 2011-02-06 00:13:38 <Kiba> well, we're an extremely small economy anyway
 43 2011-02-06 00:15:00 <Kiba> luke-jr: figure out something yet?
 44 2011-02-06 00:15:40 <Kiba> luke-jr: if you can't decide, I'll just put a link in my signature to the Tonal article on the bitcoin wiki and end it at that
 45 2011-02-06 00:20:06 <afed> win 10
 46 2011-02-06 00:26:38 <andrew12> mtgox: what's the timezone that http://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php is using?
 47 2011-02-06 00:27:19 <andrew12> or anyone else here that might know?
 48 2011-02-06 00:34:39 <tcatm> andrew12: UTC
 49 2011-02-06 00:34:48 <andrew12> then why doesn't flot work
 50 2011-02-06 00:34:49 <andrew12> lol
 51 2011-02-06 00:35:06 <tcatm> multiply by 1000?
 52 2011-02-06 00:35:11 <andrew12> i did
 53 2011-02-06 00:35:19 <tcatm> strange
 54 2011-02-06 00:35:49 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/1532712 -- the actual code
 55 2011-02-06 00:36:02 <andrew12> actually i can upload it to heroku now
 56 2011-02-06 00:36:59 <andrew12> should probably do  github too so you can see the actual cod
 57 2011-02-06 00:37:00 <andrew12> e
 58 2011-02-06 00:37:10 <andrew12> http://mtgox.heroku.com/
 59 2011-02-06 00:37:21 <andrew12> inb4 error
 60 2011-02-06 00:37:25 <andrew12> heh
 61 2011-02-06 00:37:43 <andrew12> inafter
 62 2011-02-06 00:38:22 <andrew12> oh
 63 2011-02-06 00:38:47 <andrew12> heroku uses ree, which is based off of 1.8, which doesnt have json built in
 64 2011-02-06 00:40:26 <andrew12> now it works
 65 2011-02-06 00:43:20 <andrew12> oh
 66 2011-02-06 00:43:31 <andrew12> it works, the time is just utc. no wonder i'm so confused
 67 2011-02-06 00:43:33 <andrew12> haha
 68 2011-02-06 01:03:37 <appamatto> I can't believe btc is near parity with the dollar now
 69 2011-02-06 01:03:43 <appamatto> !bc,stats
 70 2011-02-06 01:03:50 <appamatto> oops, I forgot the command
 71 2011-02-06 01:04:41 <andrew12> ;;bc,stats
 72 2011-02-06 01:04:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 106442 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 405 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 7 hours, 48 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25281.52763961
 73 2011-02-06 01:04:48 <andrew12> all commands start with ;;
 74 2011-02-06 01:04:54 <andrew12> though !bc,stats should work too... hm
 75 2011-02-06 01:28:23 <andrew12> hm
 76 2011-02-06 01:28:29 <andrew12> ipv6 is still really confusing to me
 77 2011-02-06 01:28:46 <echelon> what're you trying to do
 78 2011-02-06 01:29:25 <andrew12> well i have a /64 right? i should be able to use 2001:470:8:ad9:dead:beef:8bad:f00d
 79 2011-02-06 01:29:44 <andrew12> right? lol
 80 2011-02-06 01:30:22 <echelon> ya
 81 2011-02-06 01:30:46 <echelon> you're using he.net?
 82 2011-02-06 01:30:59 <andrew12> yeah
 83 2011-02-06 01:31:26 <andrew12> irssi -h <address> will make it bind to that address right?
 84 2011-02-06 01:31:35 <andrew12> or does it have to be a hostname?
 85 2011-02-06 01:32:34 <echelon> just do.. /set hostname
 86 2011-02-06 01:32:51 <echelon> where are you adding the ip?
 87 2011-02-06 01:33:32 <andrew12> i'm not adding it anywhere. am i supposed to tell he that i want to use that ip or something?
 88 2011-02-06 01:33:39 <andrew12> also
 89 2011-02-06 01:33:41 <echelon> you have to add it to an interface
 90 2011-02-06 01:33:42 <andrew12> 21:33:00 -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server ipv6.chat.freenode.net port 6667 [Cannot assign requested address: 2001:470:8:ad9:dead:beef:8bad:f00d]
 91 2011-02-06 01:33:53 <echelon> because it's not find the ip
 92 2011-02-06 01:34:07 <echelon> what interface are you using for your lan?
 93 2011-02-06 01:34:10 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/1532806
 94 2011-02-06 01:34:11 <echelon> wlan0/eth0?
 95 2011-02-06 01:34:16 <andrew12> its a vps
 96 2011-02-06 01:34:24 <andrew12> but it calls it eth0
 97 2011-02-06 01:34:25 <andrew12> lol
 98 2011-02-06 01:34:45 <andrew12> i can probably give you the entire thing `ip addr` gives me
 99 2011-02-06 01:34:46 <echelon> ifconfig eth0 add 2001:470:8:ad9:dead:beef:8bad:f00d
100 2011-02-06 01:34:54 <echelon> just do that
101 2011-02-06 01:34:57 <echelon> and it should work
102 2011-02-06 01:35:20 <andrew12> don't have ifconfig? o_o
103 2011-02-06 01:35:46 <andrew12> its debian
104 2011-02-06 01:35:48 <andrew12> ...
105 2011-02-06 01:35:53 <andrew12> wb
106 2011-02-06 01:35:56 <echelon> thanks
107 2011-02-06 01:36:03 <andrew12> apparently debian doesnt have ifconfig or something
108 2011-02-06 01:36:11 <andrew12> at least squeeze doesnt
109 2011-02-06 01:36:15 <echelon> ^_-
110 2011-02-06 01:36:25 <echelon> how can it not have net-tools
111 2011-02-06 01:36:31 <echelon> apt-get ?
112 2011-02-06 01:36:32 <andrew12> is that the name of the apckage? lol
113 2011-02-06 01:36:46 <andrew12> net-tools is already at the newest version
114 2011-02-06 01:36:52 <andrew12> it has the ip command
115 2011-02-06 01:36:56 <echelon> oh.. you have to do it as root
116 2011-02-06 01:37:26 <andrew12> http://cl.ly/4Q9F
117 2011-02-06 01:37:28 <andrew12> i already am :P
118 2011-02-06 01:38:11 <andrew12> OH
119 2011-02-06 01:38:12 <andrew12> wow
120 2011-02-06 01:38:14 <andrew12> i'm stupid
121 2011-02-06 01:38:28 <echelon> ?
122 2011-02-06 01:39:06 <andrew12\to/> NULL
123 2011-02-06 01:39:09 <echelon> :D
124 2011-02-06 01:39:17 <echelon> you have access to rdns?
125 2011-02-06 01:39:23 <andrew12> yeah
126 2011-02-06 01:39:28 <echelon> cool
127 2011-02-06 01:39:34 <andrew12> http://dns.he.net
128 2011-02-06 01:39:36 <andrew12> :p
129 2011-02-06 01:39:42 <echelon> :)
130 2011-02-06 01:39:46 <echelon> have a domain?
131 2011-02-06 01:39:52 <andrew12> yep
132 2011-02-06 01:39:54 <andrew12> andrew12.net
133 2011-02-06 01:39:57 <echelon> :)
134 2011-02-06 01:40:02 <andrew12> vps.andrew12.net already points to that box's ipv4 address
135 2011-02-06 01:40:15 <echelon> nice
136 2011-02-06 01:40:15 <Kiba> hmm
137 2011-02-06 01:40:37 <Kiba> anybody want to advertise in the new and upcoming The Bitcoin Weekly?
138 2011-02-06 01:40:47 <echelon> i have nothing to advertise :(
139 2011-02-06 01:40:58 <echelon> you have content for it?
140 2011-02-06 01:41:11 <Kiba> I will be
141 2011-02-06 01:41:22 <Kiba> Sunday
142 2011-02-06 01:41:24 <Kiba> is my writing time
143 2011-02-06 01:41:38 <echelon> :)
144 2011-02-06 02:02:57 <prax> what are your rates?
145 2011-02-06 02:03:09 <prax> maybe in future
146 2011-02-06 02:03:22 <Kiba> 1 BTC every 100 words
147 2011-02-06 02:03:37 <Kiba> for classified
148 2011-02-06 02:03:44 <Kiba> otherwise, 25 BTC an ads page
149 2011-02-06 02:03:58 <prax> k, not ready yet
150 2011-02-06 02:23:53 <luke-jr> slush: much, I got 0 today
151 2011-02-06 02:24:26 <luke-jr> Kiba: I'm working on a page for you to link. What's the rush?
152 2011-02-06 02:42:12 <Kiba> luke-jr: so I can make bitcoin by the end of 30 days
153 2011-02-06 02:42:27 <luke-jr> ?
154 2011-02-06 02:43:02 <Kiba> the more days I have to spend waiting for you, the less I can fill the calendar with paying advertisers
155 2011-02-06 02:43:11 <Kiba> you're limiting the number of potential advertisers in a year!
156 2011-02-06 02:57:22 <echelon> MT`AwAy, around?
157 2011-02-06 04:16:55 <newsham> how much does the bitcoin weekly cost?
158 2011-02-06 04:21:17 <Kiba> newsham: it's free to read
159 2011-02-06 04:22:05 <Kiba> my worry is about finding advertisers/sponsors and having enough content
160 2011-02-06 04:23:32 <afed> does bitcoin weekly have pictures of naked girls on page 3?
161 2011-02-06 04:24:01 <Kiba> no
162 2011-02-06 04:24:27 <afed> sorry but it is not going to be bought by me
163 2011-02-06 04:24:42 <Kiba> it's free to download and read...
164 2011-02-06 04:24:50 <afed> o
165 2011-02-06 04:30:37 <noagendamarket> why dont you just have a group blog ?
166 2011-02-06 04:31:43 <Kiba> because the magazine is for serious shit(TM)
167 2011-02-06 04:31:55 <Kiba> I have thought of opening a blog to report on the daily news
168 2011-02-06 04:32:10 <Kiba> to complement the magazine
169 2011-02-06 04:32:17 <Kiba> like what wired does
170 2011-02-06 04:32:59 <Kiba> noagendamarket: ye got more work for me?
171 2011-02-06 04:40:03 <midnightmagic_> afed: hahaha
172 2011-02-06 04:40:35 <midnightmagic_> an accurate bitcoin analysis plus nude model would probably be extremely popular.
173 2011-02-06 04:41:02 <midnightmagic_> nobody sees you reading it, which means the stigma of reading it is eliminated.
174 2011-02-06 04:41:07 <luke-jr> &
175 2011-02-06 04:41:26 <luke-jr> the stigma exists for a reason
176 2011-02-06 04:41:49 <midnightmagic_> plus the early adopters of bitcoin are rabidly interested in the development of the currency, so accurate analysis would be the primary draw,
177 2011-02-06 04:41:52 <Kiba> luke-jr: you don't like nude women?
178 2011-02-06 04:42:08 <luke-jr> Kiba: only my wife, ofc
179 2011-02-06 04:42:41 <midnightmagic_> the stigma is a pointless construction of oppression and sexual imperialism
180 2011-02-06 04:42:51 <Kiba> rofl
181 2011-02-06 04:42:59 <noagendamarket> a nerd woman of the week
182 2011-02-06 04:43:02 <noagendamarket> lol
183 2011-02-06 04:43:25 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: no, it's because such a thing is gravely immoral and sexual abuse.
184 2011-02-06 04:43:45 <Kiba> sexual abuse? LOL
185 2011-02-06 04:43:48 <midnightmagic_> an attractive woman, tastefully done, with artistic merit, has been the cornerstone of high art for centuries.
186 2011-02-06 04:44:07 <noagendamarket> even better if she is doing something geeky
187 2011-02-06 04:44:31 <noagendamarket> like playing xbox in the nude
188 2011-02-06 04:44:37 <midnightmagic_> i'd buy that.
189 2011-02-06 04:44:38 <luke-jr> &
190 2011-02-06 04:44:39 <noagendamarket> :)
191 2011-02-06 04:44:46 <Kiba> like hacking into male's brain and demanding sexual favors from male partner?
192 2011-02-06 04:44:46 <luke-jr> cmon, it's pro-xbox
193 2011-02-06 04:44:50 <luke-jr> you can't honestly support that
194 2011-02-06 04:44:57 <noagendamarket> lol
195 2011-02-06 04:45:03 <midnightmagic_> hrm.. good point..
196 2011-02-06 04:45:04 <noagendamarket> I have aps3
197 2011-02-06 04:45:08 <noagendamarket> :)-
198 2011-02-06 04:45:15 <afed> luke-jr we need to stop using that character
199 2011-02-06 04:45:36 <luke-jr> afed: I haven't seen you use it.
200 2011-02-06 04:45:47 <noagendamarket> a description of where to insert a usb dongle
201 2011-02-06 04:45:48 <afed> for good reason
202 2011-02-06 04:45:49 <Kiba> noagendamarket: yo...do ya have jobs?
203 2011-02-06 04:45:51 <noagendamarket> :)
204 2011-02-06 04:46:05 <luke-jr> &
205 2011-02-06 04:46:36 <luke-jr> anyhow
206 2011-02-06 04:46:39 <luke-jr> BitCoin is doomed
207 2011-02-06 04:46:41 <luke-jr> know why?
208 2011-02-06 04:46:45 <noagendamarket> http://witticisms.witcoin.com/p/38/What-would-you-do-for-5-dollars-worth-of-bitcoins   lol
209 2011-02-06 04:46:59 <luke-jr> another digital commodity is going to out-compete BitCoin
210 2011-02-06 04:47:10 <Kiba> like facebook credits?
211 2011-02-06 04:47:34 <noagendamarket> facebook takes a 30% cut its not even in the game.
212 2011-02-06 04:47:41 <luke-jr> Kiba: not that
213 2011-02-06 04:47:44 <Kiba> but it's facebook!
214 2011-02-06 04:47:47 <luke-jr> IPv4 addresses
215 2011-02-06 04:47:59 <noagendamarket> haha
216 2011-02-06 04:48:25 <Kiba> ipv4 addresses doesn't seem to be much of an exchangable currency
217 2011-02-06 04:48:27 <midnightmagic_> ipv6 is already here. just look at art's hostmask.
218 2011-02-06 04:48:32 <luke-jr> I control 21 static IPv4s
219 2011-02-06 04:48:42 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: doesn't make IPv4 any less valuable
220 2011-02-06 04:48:56 <luke-jr> I just raised my prices from $2/IPv4 to $3/IPv4
221 2011-02-06 04:49:00 <Kiba> sound like ipv4 addresses are a better way to s tore your wealth than bitcoin does
222 2011-02-06 04:49:11 <luke-jr> in a year, it'll probably go auction-to-the-highest-bidder
223 2011-02-06 04:49:33 <midnightmagic_> no. allocation has been tightly controlled for a reason, and that reason isn't going anywhere.
224 2011-02-06 04:49:55 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: tightly controlled?
225 2011-02-06 04:50:01 <luke-jr> what has been?
226 2011-02-06 04:50:14 <luke-jr> until recently, to get more IPv4 all I had to do is ask
227 2011-02-06 04:50:27 <luke-jr> this last time, I needed a reason
228 2011-02-06 04:51:05 <midnightmagic_> the only places who don't ask for reasons are places that aren't following the rules.
229 2011-02-06 04:51:26 <luke-jr> when was the last time anyone at the bottom followed the rules? :P
230 2011-02-06 04:51:47 <midnightmagic_> i was network admin for a long time, and the swip reports we had to fill out were ALWAYS necessary. that was in 2000.
231 2011-02-06 04:51:53 <luke-jr> even with IPv6, Comcast is already breaking the rules
232 2011-02-06 04:52:01 <midnightmagic_> oh?
233 2011-02-06 04:52:05 <midnightmagic_> what are they doing?
234 2011-02-06 04:52:10 <luke-jr> giving customers /64s
235 2011-02-06 04:52:45 <luke-jr> rules say end users should get /48s
236 2011-02-06 04:52:59 <midnightmagic_> awesome.
237 2011-02-06 04:53:24 <midnightmagic_> that's total bullshit, and therefore by "awesome" I of course am being eminently sarcastic.
238 2011-02-06 04:54:06 <luke-jr> of course, my own ISP has no plans to support IPv6 anytime soon
239 2011-02-06 04:56:45 <midnightmagic_> of course. that's a very common idiocy. i think ipv6 has been in committee too long with too much cruft tacked on. it should have been simpler, and then it would've been adopted far more rapidly
240 2011-02-06 04:59:27 <luke-jr> midnightmagic_: if you want "should have", we *really* should have just stuck with IPX and never moved to IPv4
241 2011-02-06 04:59:28 <luke-jr> :p
242 2011-02-06 05:01:50 <presence> when the plan is to give /128s for ptp links, who gives a shit about the rest of the allocations
243 2011-02-06 05:37:03 <andrew12> heh
244 2011-02-06 05:37:25 <andrew12> with a /64 you have enough ip addresses for each of your connections to have at least a million ips
245 2011-02-06 05:42:16 <midnightmagic_> ipx. funny. :)
246 2011-02-06 05:43:52 <andrew12> yeah i'm gonna go to bed
247 2011-02-06 05:43:54 <andrew12> nini guys
248 2011-02-06 06:15:04 <afed> 0.05 bitcoins * 2^64 ip addresses
249 2011-02-06 06:15:07 <afed> is a lot of bitcoins
250 2011-02-06 06:18:04 <echelon> -__-
251 2011-02-06 06:18:57 <echelon> i'll notify the faucet maintainer to reduce payments to .00001
252 2011-02-06 06:19:13 <afed> 0.00001 bitcoins * 2^64 ip addresses
253 2011-02-06 06:19:16 <afed> is a lot of bitcoins
254 2011-02-06 06:19:48 <afed> 1.8*10^14 or so
255 2011-02-06 06:20:15 <echelon> .65536
256 2011-02-06 09:05:50 <slush> cosurgi: ru here?
257 2011-02-06 09:29:21 <cosurgi> slush: yes
258 2011-02-06 09:29:31 <cosurgi> what's up?
259 2011-02-06 09:29:59 <slush> I'm thinking about new algorithm for calculating shares
260 2011-02-06 09:30:06 <cosurgi> ok, which one?
261 2011-02-06 10:25:30 <UukGoblin> gribble suggestion: make the amounts justified to the decimal point, so that it's easy to see them
262 2011-02-06 11:07:49 <joe_1> what db library does bitcoin depend on
263 2011-02-06 11:08:51 <joe_1> -L"/db/build_unix"
264 2011-02-06 11:09:17 <joe_1> -l db_cxx
265 2011-02-06 11:10:45 <joe_1> berkeley db? is that what that is?
266 2011-02-06 11:16:02 <joe_1> ugh.. looks like oracle gayed it.
267 2011-02-06 11:23:49 <da2ce7> oracle gays everything up.
268 2011-02-06 11:25:43 <wumpus> yep, oracle changes everything it touches to shit
269 2011-02-06 11:25:52 <wumpus> it's legendary
270 2011-02-06 11:33:25 <da2ce7> oraclecoin
271 2011-02-06 11:33:26 <da2ce7> lol
272 2011-02-06 11:42:29 <noagendamarket> sounds like some form of toothpaste
273 2011-02-06 11:42:31 <noagendamarket> :)
274 2011-02-06 12:01:08 <echelon> mtgox, would you alert us if someone was just trading high volumes back and forth to corner the market?
275 2011-02-06 12:01:33 <slush> echelon: why?
276 2011-02-06 12:01:44 <echelon> i think it's a concern
277 2011-02-06 12:02:04 <slush> its a market manipulation
278 2011-02-06 12:02:10 <slush> to telling others who is trading
279 2011-02-06 12:02:42 <echelon> what if it was apparent that a manipulation of the market was occurring
280 2011-02-06 12:02:52 <slush> so?
281 2011-02-06 12:03:08 <slush> there is no manipulation. There are only buys and sells
282 2011-02-06 12:03:27 <slush> if you jump into it and somebody make money on you, that's your problem
283 2011-02-06 12:04:20 <echelon> i don't have a problem with people making money
284 2011-02-06 12:05:49 <slush> will you trade differently if you know that the last trade was big investor or if it was just somebody who has bunch of bitcoins and want to play with the market?
285 2011-02-06 12:06:59 <echelon> i'm not interested if it was a big investor, i'm only interested if there are indicators that show that a person is just swapping back and forth
286 2011-02-06 12:07:30 <slush> which indicate you that isn't an investor, but speculator
287 2011-02-06 12:07:51 <slush> but he only filled orders which are on the market
288 2011-02-06 12:08:24 <slush> that's why is important to follow also volume, not only price level
289 2011-02-06 12:08:40 <slush> parity at volume 1 btc means nothing
290 2011-02-06 12:10:03 <echelon> yeah, that wouldn't be as concerning if it was low volume
291 2011-02-06 12:10:20 <echelon> which is possible to check yourself
292 2011-02-06 12:30:27 <da2ce7> who cares if it is a speculator or investor, they are the same thing
293 2011-02-06 12:30:57 <da2ce7> by all means I'm a speculator as I have generated many coins before they were worth lots.
294 2011-02-06 12:46:27 <slush> basically,speculators keep liquidity up.without specilative trades, there will be much wider spread
295 2011-02-06 13:26:58 <andrew12> morning guys
296 2011-02-06 13:32:22 <echelon> hey
297 2011-02-06 13:39:37 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 320
298 2011-02-06 13:39:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 9 years, 19 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 31 minutes, and 35 seconds
299 2011-02-06 13:39:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 320000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 3 days, 10 hours, 4 minutes, and 6 seconds
300 2011-02-06 13:39:41 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 320000
301 2011-02-06 13:40:04 <xelister> recently how fast diff is growing? graph?
302 2011-02-06 13:40:52 <xelister> how do you forecast number of generated blocks in next 2 months with X blocks per week?
303 2011-02-06 13:41:21 <xelister> X + X*e^2 + X*e^3 + X*e^4   e=1.2 ?
304 2011-02-06 13:41:35 <xelister> erg, that is for 1 month actualy
305 2011-02-06 13:45:13 <noagendamarket> I wonder what a bitcoin will be worth in 9 years ? lol
306 2011-02-06 13:45:37 <xelister> noagendamarket: 50 years in brison as a pedorsit in USA
307 2011-02-06 13:46:12 <xelister> everyone who is competing with government (e.g. about currency) is a liberal, and all liberals are pedorists.
308 2011-02-06 13:46:15 <Diablo-D3> over 9000 dollars
309 2011-02-06 13:53:00 <echelon> xelister, i think you have your stereotypes  confused or you're trolling
310 2011-02-06 13:53:23 <Diablo-D3> echelon: sigh. what did he say?
311 2011-02-06 13:53:45 <echelon> <noagendamarket> I wonder what a bitcoin will be worth in 9 years ? lol
312 2011-02-06 13:53:53 <echelon> <xelister> everyone who is competing with government (e.g. about currency) is a liberal, and all liberals are pedorists.
313 2011-02-06 13:54:09 <Diablo-D3> pedorist... erm,
314 2011-02-06 13:54:25 <Diablo-D3> a podiatrist?
315 2011-02-06 13:54:40 <Diablo-D3> a pedor_a_st maybe?
316 2011-02-06 13:55:05 <ArtForz> no, a pirdorist
317 2011-02-06 13:55:31 <Diablo-D3> a terrorist!?
318 2011-02-06 13:55:46 <ArtForz> pirate pedo terrorist, duh
319 2011-02-06 13:56:00 <Diablo-D3> ohshit
320 2011-02-06 13:59:51 <noagendamarket> lool   where is pedor st ?
321 2011-02-06 14:02:58 <xelister> ArtForz: is correct
322 2011-02-06 14:03:46 <xelister> echelon: was it not in USA that some guy made own currency coins, and he was arrested and is hold for years without a trial (because gov wants him jailed but cant find any good arguments)?
323 2011-02-06 14:04:10 <echelon> are you sure that was a 'libera'?
324 2011-02-06 14:04:23 <xelister> hm?
325 2011-02-06 14:04:38 <echelon> liberal*
326 2011-02-06 14:05:04 <xelister> I am not sure what you mean with this question
327 2011-02-06 14:05:22 <echelon> you said it's the liberals that are always trying to compete with currency
328 2011-02-06 14:05:53 <xelister> echelon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
329 2011-02-06 14:06:01 <andrew12> rofl
330 2011-02-06 14:06:18 <noagendamarket> lmao
331 2011-02-06 14:07:08 <noagendamarket> but we dont print bitcoins....
332 2011-02-06 14:07:15 <noagendamarket> :)-
333 2011-02-06 14:07:18 <andrew12> we sure as hell can
334 2011-02-06 14:07:37 <andrew12> er
335 2011-02-06 14:07:37 <noagendamarket> im sure we could
336 2011-02-06 14:07:38 <andrew12> nevermind
337 2011-02-06 14:07:51 <andrew12> after i think that through im just like 'oh that won't do...'
338 2011-02-06 14:08:24 <xelister> echelon: I ment that USA gov despite claiming freedom and democracy,  often stops people from using their freedom - in example freedom to trade freely.  Tax (per income) are anyway imho bad (not-liberal).  But something worse is to just jail guy that uses own currency. It seems that is what USA gov is doing. Or is this information incorrect?
339 2011-02-06 14:08:56 <joe_1> i never heard about the guy being jailed for using his own currency
340 2011-02-06 14:09:25 <xelister> I read about this story here. Mind someone remind me details?
341 2011-02-06 14:09:52 <noagendamarket> liberty dollar
342 2011-02-06 14:10:09 <joe_1> oh
343 2011-02-06 14:10:15 <xelister> is the story described on some website?
344 2011-02-06 14:10:16 <noagendamarket> thats because he retardedly called it a dollar
345 2011-02-06 14:10:25 <noagendamarket> and made it look like us dollar
346 2011-02-06 14:10:33 <joe_1> no thats not retarded many countries currencies are called dollars
347 2011-02-06 14:10:36 <xelister> well it's not like it is Dolar???
348 2011-02-06 14:11:06 <noagendamarket> well if its a private currency its perfectly legal to create
349 2011-02-06 14:11:10 <xelister> joe_1 is correct. Dolar doesnt mean US Dolar.  Again with the selfishness, what is wrong with you, Americans ;)
350 2011-02-06 14:11:19 <noagendamarket> lmao
351 2011-02-06 14:11:35 <xelister> noagendamarket: yeap, and he is still jailed or something?
352 2011-02-06 14:11:36 <noagendamarket> forgive me i didnt realise it was a dolar not a dollar
353 2011-02-06 14:11:47 <xelister> typo
354 2011-02-06 14:11:51 <noagendamarket> heh
355 2011-02-06 14:11:56 <noagendamarket> well words matter
356 2011-02-06 14:11:58 <xelister> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar
357 2011-02-06 14:12:17 <noagendamarket> dont make a note that looks like the us dollar and call it a dollar
358 2011-02-06 14:12:26 <noagendamarket> doh!
359 2011-02-06 14:12:40 <noagendamarket> there was also egold
360 2011-02-06 14:12:45 <xelister> "NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009. Bernard von NotHaus is charged with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States"
361 2011-02-06 14:12:55 <xelister> ^---- echelon here goes your non-evil usa
362 2011-02-06 14:13:20 <echelon> i didn't say it wasn't
363 2011-02-06 14:13:41 <andrew12> how does the us distribute coins after they get out of the mint?
364 2011-02-06 14:13:45 <echelon> but it was his fault in not knowing the legal ramifications
365 2011-02-06 14:13:48 <ArtForz> noagendamarket: agree
366 2011-02-06 14:13:49 <xelister> duuuh duuuh this is made of metal and round! it is totally a forgery! We americans are duumb as fuck so in fact everyone would fall for such forgery! Arrest them! deerp
367 2011-02-06 14:14:03 <andrew12> or is it interest in banks that does it
368 2011-02-06 14:14:52 <xelister> echelon: legal ramifications lol.. of what, making round metal coins?  Arrest all Europeans, Canadians, Mexicans, and acient Greeks and Romans for forgery of US Dollar
369 2011-02-06 14:16:27 <andrew12> heh
370 2011-02-06 14:16:32 <andrew12> mtgox is saying i have -0 btc
371 2011-02-06 14:16:37 <echelon> "coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States"
372 2011-02-06 14:16:56 <xelister> my ass is genuine resemblance of U.S. coins
373 2011-02-06 14:20:37 <xelister> 1) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Liberty_Dollar.jpeg    2) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/LineartPresRev.png/596px-LineartPresRev.png      3) http://worldmintcoins.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/australian-koala-2009-gold-proof-coin.jpg              1 -vs- 2 ,  1 -vs 3  ... USA should invade australia ?
374 2011-02-06 14:21:09 <xelister> maybe when they are done in iraqstan
375 2011-02-06 14:21:18 <joe_1> according to wikipedia they brought some frivilous charges against him after the justice department (executive branch) determined that it's illegal to circulate coins other than u.s. currency. of course, they're lying becuase it is not illegal
376 2011-02-06 15:12:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 35000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 22012.4941572 , is 45 minutes and 1 second
377 2011-02-06 15:12:03 <slush> ;;bc,calc 35000000
378 2011-02-06 15:23:36 <nanotube> ;;bc,poolstats
379 2011-02-06 15:23:37 <gribble> {"active_workers": 418, "hashes_ps": 35940082418.0, "getwork_ps": 130}
380 2011-02-06 15:23:46 <nanotube> wow up to 35ghps eh.
381 2011-02-06 15:26:00 <slush> yep, but bill for additional transfers looks worse :)
382 2011-02-06 15:28:28 <nanotube> slush: what do you mean?
383 2011-02-06 15:28:34 <nanotube> who's billing you?
384 2011-02-06 15:28:41 <slush> linode
385 2011-02-06 15:28:58 <slush> for additional 300GB of transfers above plan :)
386 2011-02-06 15:30:36 <nanotube> oh
387 2011-02-06 15:30:42 <nanotube> wow hehe
388 2011-02-06 15:42:32 <bd_> slush: 300GB of transfers above plan?!
389 2011-02-06 15:42:39 <bd_> what are you doing with that linode? :)
390 2011-02-06 15:42:48 <gribble> No fancy GPU farm, and don't want to wait for months for a block gen? Join the mining pool! http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
391 2011-02-06 15:42:48 <slush> bd_: ,,pool
392 2011-02-06 15:42:51 <slush> ;)
393 2011-02-06 15:43:06 <bd_> slush: that uses that much bandwidth? oO
394 2011-02-06 15:43:11 <bd_> also, note that bandwidth is cheaper on linode if you reserve it with the extras tab
395 2011-02-06 15:43:22 <bd_> $0.10/gb vs $0.15/gb
396 2011-02-06 15:43:32 <slush> last month something like 700GB
397 2011-02-06 15:43:55 <slush> I know ,but I hope I'll finish changes in pool this month, which saves significant amount of bandwidth
398 2011-02-06 15:44:22 <bd_> slush: why's the protocol using that much bandwidth as-is? >_>;
399 2011-02-06 15:44:59 <slush> bd_: 130 requests / second, all the day
400 2011-02-06 15:45:11 <bd_> why's the protocol making that many requests? >_>;
401 2011-02-06 15:45:13 <slush> bd_: http headers, http responses, json serialized hexa data...
402 2011-02-06 15:45:18 <bd_> jeez
403 2011-02-06 15:45:31 <bd_> if this doesn't call for a lightweight UDP protocol, I don't know what does :)
404 2011-02-06 15:45:49 <bd_> and can requests be batched up more?
405 2011-02-06 15:55:40 <slush> bd_: not easily, workers need as much fresh job as possible. So frequent requests are reasonable
406 2011-02-06 15:55:55 <slush> bd_: pool uses standard API which is in bitcoin client itself
407 2011-02-06 15:57:17 <bd_> You could use a push-based API - that is, send out notifications to all connected miners whenever the block contents change
408 2011-02-06 15:57:27 <slush> bd_: bingo ;)
409 2011-02-06 15:57:29 <bd_> you'd need some kind of proxy for the miners to connect to ofc
410 2011-02-06 15:57:36 <slush> but somebody have to design & code it
411 2011-02-06 15:58:46 <bd_> btw, is it me or is your miner producing almost all of the blocks in the bitcoin network? :)
412 2011-02-06 16:00:22 <slush> not all, pool has ~35ghash, but bitcoin network is over 200ghash atm
413 2011-02-06 16:00:52 <bd_> ah, block history block numbers aren't the block chain indices, nm
414 2011-02-06 16:00:59 <slush> hehe
415 2011-02-06 16:01:47 <mrb> bc,stats
416 2011-02-06 16:01:56 <mrb> ;;bc,stats
417 2011-02-06 16:01:58 <gribble> Current Blocks: 106549 | Current Difficulty: 22012.4941572 | Next Difficulty At Block: 106847 | Next Difficulty In: 298 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 17 hours, 33 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25352.86302057
418 2011-02-06 16:02:06 <gribble> (((2 ** 32) * 25,352.86302057) / 600) / 1e9 = 181.482863
419 2011-02-06 16:02:06 <mrb> ;;calc 2**32*25352.86302057/600/1e9
420 2011-02-06 16:02:25 <mrb> 181 Ghash/s
421 2011-02-06 16:03:32 <bd_> slush: If you are going to do a broadcast system, be careful to space out the broadcast though, btw. Linode has a maximum bandwidth filter which could result in packet loss if you jam 400 packets down the network interface in the space of a few milliseconds :)
422 2011-02-06 16:04:23 <slush> heh, do you any resources to this
423 2011-02-06 16:04:24 <slush> ?
424 2011-02-06 16:04:30 <slush> *have
425 2011-02-06 16:04:49 <slush> basically I plan to implement long polling
426 2011-02-06 16:04:57 <bd_> slush: not offhand, it's probably in their FAQ somewhere. The limit is 40mbit outgoing (no limit incoming), but I'm not sure how it responds to having large numbers of packets dumped on it in a very short window
427 2011-02-06 16:05:05 <bd_> If needed it can be raised, however.
428 2011-02-06 16:05:25 <slush> hundreds/thousands of open sockets waiting on new block. When new block/tx arrive, pool respond all with new jobs
429 2011-02-06 16:05:30 <bd_> Worse case you retransmit, but that's still undesirable if you want workers to respond quickly
430 2011-02-06 16:05:46 <bd_> slush: Hmm, will miners respond well to that? You should test to see what their timeouts are
431 2011-02-06 16:05:57 <bd_> Unless you're going with a proxy solution of course
432 2011-02-06 16:06:01 <slush> miners needs proxy or custom changes, of course
433 2011-02-06 16:06:08 <bd_> *nod*
434 2011-02-06 16:06:25 <bd_> rather than HTTP long polling I'd go with websockets or something
435 2011-02-06 16:06:31 <bd_> that'll save you the HTTP request bandwidth
436 2011-02-06 16:06:43 <slush> I know, I split job to more phases
437 2011-02-06 16:06:52 <bd_> phases?
438 2011-02-06 16:07:04 <slush> firstly I need to handle thousands of connections on the pool, which need some internal rewrites and async core
439 2011-02-06 16:07:15 <slush> then I'll publish proxy & long polling
440 2011-02-06 16:07:36 <bd_> slush: Well, you could have a proxy on the pool side too. Proxy polls the real pool every $shortinterval, triggers a broadcast if there's an update :)
441 2011-02-06 16:07:55 <slush> basically, you are right
442 2011-02-06 16:08:22 <slush> until I'm using stock bitcoind, pool app will be polling bitcoind
443 2011-02-06 16:08:42 <slush> then it pair waiting connections with jobs and close them
444 2011-02-06 16:09:03 <bd_> why close them? Use websockets (or a custom protocol), keep the connection open
445 2011-02-06 16:09:08 <bd_> they're going to need it again anyway
446 2011-02-06 16:09:21 <bd_> actually
447 2011-02-06 16:10:10 <bd_> one option: Use the normal API for submitting results. For getting job updates, you have a ultra-simple relay server that just relays messages from the pool to everything that's connected
448 2011-02-06 16:10:26 <bd_> (for client startup you have to use the normal API to grab the initial job)
449 2011-02-06 16:10:53 <bd_> then your pool core doesn't need changes
450 2011-02-06 16:11:06 <bd_> except to pass the new job to the relay server when it's time to do so
451 2011-02-06 16:11:19 <slush> my pool need changes in all ways
452 2011-02-06 16:11:23 <bd_> heh :)
453 2011-02-06 16:11:40 <slush> because I decided to change handling merkle hash a little
454 2011-02-06 16:12:18 <slush> long story, but it's because I don't simply need long polling solution; I need cheatproof and scalable long polling solution
455 2011-02-06 16:12:44 <bd_> fair enough :)
456 2011-02-06 16:13:03 <slush> I didn't think about websockets or so yet, but once I'll change internals to work async, then I can play with protocol itself freely
457 2011-02-06 16:13:13 <bd_> ah, do you pass every client a slightly different block to detect people who would grab the completed block for themselves or something?
458 2011-02-06 16:13:18 <slush> changing protocol to something reasonable is the next step I was talking about
459 2011-02-06 16:13:26 <slush> no
460 2011-02-06 16:13:34 <slush> it's not possible even with current solution
461 2011-02-06 16:14:07 <bd_> ah, yes, since the recipient key is burned into the block
462 2011-02-06 16:20:30 <slush> yes. With push protocol, every worker need unique extranonce
463 2011-02-06 16:21:27 <bd_> but that can be done by setting it on startup
464 2011-02-06 16:21:45 <bd_> and assigning a new one if it manages to scan its entire assigned range
465 2011-02-06 16:31:44 <presence> power went out for hours last night
466 2011-02-06 16:31:47 <presence> quite annoying
467 2011-02-06 16:34:55 <slush> bd_: not the hardest part. But I simply have to rewrite almost everything and I have to be sure there are no bugs and holes
468 2011-02-06 16:36:15 <bd_> fair enough
469 2011-02-06 16:36:17 <bd_> good luck :)
470 2011-02-06 16:36:30 <bd_> might want to look into reserving bandwidth if it's going to take a while :)
471 2011-02-06 16:39:00 <slush> it's 6.Feb. I hope it will be done until 20th
472 2011-02-06 16:39:19 <slush> which is around breakeven for buying extra bandwidth :)
473 2011-02-06 16:41:03 <bd_> after the 20th you'd be paying for two months, yes :)
474 2011-02-06 16:41:41 <bd_> or well, in general, for any purchases after the 20th of a month, linode will have you prepay (deposit) an amount sufficient for until the end of the _next_ month
475 2011-02-06 17:26:55 <brocktice> linode = teh awesome
476 2011-02-06 17:30:02 <EvanR> does linode penalize for high cpu load?
477 2011-02-06 17:31:24 <brocktice> nope
478 2011-02-06 17:31:37 <Kiba> it seem that the market is in a downturn today :(
479 2011-02-06 17:31:46 <brocktice> Kiba: good time to buy
480 2011-02-06 17:31:51 <EvanR> haha
481 2011-02-06 17:31:56 <EvanR> good time to buy == 25 cents
482 2011-02-06 17:31:59 <brocktice> get it now before it goes over $1 and then skyrockets!
483 2011-02-06 17:40:08 <Kiba> hmm
484 2011-02-06 17:40:25 <Kiba> I seem to have a lead on that bitcoin bonus guy
485 2011-02-06 17:41:51 <echelon> Kiba, any updates on the magazine?
486 2011-02-06 17:42:22 <Kiba> echelon: deadline is approaching and I seem to have gotten a deal
487 2011-02-06 17:42:38 <echelon> a deal?
488 2011-02-06 17:42:43 <echelon> with an advertiser?
489 2011-02-06 17:42:51 <tcatm> Kiba: Got your email, but I don't really have work for you
490 2011-02-06 17:43:16 <Kiba> :(
491 2011-02-06 17:43:21 <echelon> :/
492 2011-02-06 17:43:30 <echelon> told you to ask one of the #mises guys
493 2011-02-06 17:43:34 <echelon> they like to write
494 2011-02-06 17:43:36 <Kiba> what for?
495 2011-02-06 17:43:48 <Kiba> echelon: I gotten a deal with an advertiser
496 2011-02-06 17:44:00 <echelon> cool
497 2011-02-06 17:44:53 <echelon> they're going to provide an ad page or you'll have to make it for them?
498 2011-02-06 17:45:08 <Kiba> echelon: it will be a simple ads..hopefully
499 2011-02-06 17:45:14 <Kiba> they're going to have to provide the content
500 2011-02-06 17:45:24 <Kiba> not in the business of making advertising
501 2011-02-06 17:45:49 <echelon> is it going to be in the format of the other magazine?
502 2011-02-06 17:45:58 <Kiba> One page ads
503 2011-02-06 17:45:59 <Kiba> yeah
504 2011-02-06 17:46:52 <echelon> should use some publishing software to make it different from the other one
505 2011-02-06 17:47:15 <Kiba> a pdf creator?
506 2011-02-06 17:47:23 <echelon> nah, that's easy
507 2011-02-06 17:48:13 <echelon> Kiba, http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus
508 2011-02-06 17:48:16 <newsham> .tex ftw
509 2011-02-06 17:49:11 <echelon> oh, they have a channel on here.. #scribus
510 2011-02-06 17:50:01 <Kiba> does it allow me to export into HTML or something?
511 2011-02-06 17:50:57 <echelon> exports to pdf, lemme see about html
512 2011-02-06 17:51:30 <Kiba> well, I should get off my butt and work on my client's projects
513 2011-02-06 17:51:33 <tcatm> other way round: scribus allows you to use text from external files
514 2011-02-06 17:51:58 <tcatm> i.e. edit external file in texteditor and scribus updates text in textfield
515 2011-02-06 17:52:09 <Kiba> that could be doable
516 2011-02-06 17:52:27 <Kiba> err
517 2011-02-06 17:52:29 <Kiba> the magazine
518 2011-02-06 17:52:43 <Kiba> naw, I should stick with something very simple
519 2011-02-06 17:53:00 <echelon> just a touch professionalism in design should keep a consistent readership
520 2011-02-06 17:53:53 <echelon> Kiba, how about.. "the bitcoin journal"?
521 2011-02-06 17:54:51 <Kiba> there's nothing academic about my magazine
522 2011-02-06 17:55:10 <echelon> like 'the wall street journal' ..except about bitcoins
523 2011-02-06 17:56:45 <atphalix> anyone know how to run bitcoin under Fedora?
524 2011-02-06 17:57:07 <echelon> does it matter what distribution it is
525 2011-02-06 17:57:11 <atphalix> I'm using it under wine, not sure if it will work
526 2011-02-06 17:57:17 <echelon> uh.. why
527 2011-02-06 17:57:27 <atphalix> it segfault
528 2011-02-06 17:57:41 <echelon> the linux version segfaults?
529 2011-02-06 17:57:47 <atphalix> yes
530 2011-02-06 17:58:00 <Kiba> I downloaded scribus
531 2011-02-06 17:58:03 <echelon> were you using 32 or 64?
532 2011-02-06 17:58:07 <Kiba> but I guess I'll learn how to use the software later
533 2011-02-06 17:58:08 <atphalix> 32
534 2011-02-06 17:58:35 <echelon> build it from source then
535 2011-02-06 17:58:50 <atphalix> ok will try
536 2011-02-06 18:33:29 <luke-jr> Kiba: newspapers should be PDFG
537 2011-02-06 18:33:33 <luke-jr> PDF*
538 2011-02-06 18:35:12 <andrew12> or html..
539 2011-02-06 18:35:30 <luke-jr> HTML is for dynamicly rendered content
540 2011-02-06 18:35:33 <luke-jr> not print
541 2011-02-06 18:36:02 <andrew12> yes, but it's an open standard, and you don't have to install anything
542 2011-02-06 18:36:11 <andrew12> HTML can be used for anything
543 2011-02-06 18:37:52 <echelon> you have to worry about how it appears from browser to browser
544 2011-02-06 18:38:38 <andrew12> not for something like a newspaper
545 2011-02-06 18:38:42 <andrew12> :|
546 2011-02-06 18:42:40 <echelon> there's nothing standard about html rendering
547 2011-02-06 18:42:52 <Necr0s> Use PDF if you want standard rendering.
548 2011-02-06 18:42:54 <tcatm> you could use PDF but with 16:9 aspect only for screens
549 2011-02-06 18:43:01 <luke-jr> andrew12: PDF is also an open standard
550 2011-02-06 18:43:07 <luke-jr> and don't have to install anything
551 2011-02-06 18:43:25 <andrew12> yes you do
552 2011-02-06 18:43:28 <luke-jr> nope
553 2011-02-06 18:43:29 <andrew12> on most system
554 2011-02-06 18:43:30 <andrew12> s
555 2011-02-06 18:43:32 <luke-jr> nope
556 2011-02-06 18:43:33 <Necr0s> OS X's display layer uses PDF heavily.
557 2011-02-06 18:43:42 <andrew12> Windows doesn't come with a pdf reader
558 2011-02-06 18:43:46 <ArtForz> errr. no.
559 2011-02-06 18:43:46 <luke-jr> Windows is crap
560 2011-02-06 18:43:49 <echelon> you can use google's ajax pdf viewer
561 2011-02-06 18:43:49 <luke-jr> that's ONE OS
562 2011-02-06 18:43:51 <andrew12> that's irrelevent
563 2011-02-06 18:43:52 <luke-jr> out of hundreds
564 2011-02-06 18:44:02 <andrew12> you said it works on every os
565 2011-02-06 18:44:02 <luke-jr> also, most OEM Windows include a PDF reader
566 2011-02-06 18:44:09 <luke-jr> I didn't say every.
567 2011-02-06 18:44:12 <andrew12> my ass
568 2011-02-06 18:44:21 <Necr0s> Even Win7 doesn't come with anything for PDF?
569 2011-02-06 18:44:26 <luke-jr> only crappy OS that basically nobody uses, lack PDF readers
570 2011-02-06 18:44:29 <Necr0s> Surprising.
571 2011-02-06 18:44:30 <echelon> google's ajax viewer is quite nice :)
572 2011-02-06 18:44:52 <luke-jr> again, tell me a single OEM Windows without a PDF reader
573 2011-02-06 18:45:06 <luke-jr> most Windoze lusers just get it OEM
574 2011-02-06 18:46:27 <Necr0s> Generated (50.00 matures in 46 blocks)
575 2011-02-06 18:46:41 <Necr0s> I wonder what happens when the blocks run out.  Will the final coins never mature?
576 2011-02-06 18:46:54 <luke-jr> &
577 2011-02-06 18:46:56 <luke-jr> blocks never run out
578 2011-02-06 18:47:05 <Necr0s> hmm
579 2011-02-06 18:47:12 <Necr0s> But the coins run out.
580 2011-02-06 18:47:22 <luke-jr> no they don't
581 2011-02-06 18:47:27 <luke-jr> there's still coins to circulate.
582 2011-02-06 18:47:27 <Necr0s> Perhaps a lack some fundamental understanding of the bitcoin system.
583 2011-02-06 18:47:28 <andrew12> indeed they don't
584 2011-02-06 18:47:41 <Necr0s> I thought there could only be 21million or so ever.
585 2011-02-06 18:47:48 <luke-jr> Necr0s: they stop being minted, but the 21million continue circulation
586 2011-02-06 18:47:53 <luke-jr> including payment processing fees
587 2011-02-06 18:48:06 <Necr0s> hmm.
588 2011-02-06 18:48:13 <luke-jr> whoever generates the block gets the payment processing fees
589 2011-02-06 18:48:45 <Necr0s> So just making transactions will add blocks?
590 2011-02-06 18:48:51 <luke-jr> &
591 2011-02-06 18:48:59 <luke-jr> blocks are generated every 10 minutes on average
592 2011-02-06 18:49:04 <luke-jr> with or without transactions
593 2011-02-06 18:49:19 <Necr0s> What can be in a block?
594 2011-02-06 18:49:25 <luke-jr> transactions
595 2011-02-06 18:49:43 <Necr0s> What else?
596 2011-02-06 18:49:48 <luke-jr> that's basically it
597 2011-02-06 18:49:59 <luke-jr> timestamp
598 2011-02-06 18:50:00 <luke-jr> nonce
599 2011-02-06 18:50:02 <Necr0s> er...what do you mean above them by "with or without transactions"?
600 2011-02-06 18:50:15 <midnightmagic_> no, blocks will be generated regardless of transactions as part of the difficulty-increasing block-chain.
601 2011-02-06 18:50:17 <luke-jr> without transactions, it'll just be a minting+header
602 2011-02-06 18:50:23 <midnightmagic_> the more blocks in the chain, the harder it is to attack.
603 2011-02-06 18:50:41 <echelon> until payouts are halved to like .01 btc's will it be worth it for anyone to generate coins?
604 2011-02-06 18:50:55 <luke-jr> echelon: by then, fees will add up to a lot
605 2011-02-06 18:51:01 <luke-jr> or else bitcoin will have long since failed
606 2011-02-06 18:51:02 <echelon> oh
607 2011-02-06 18:51:47 <echelon> but what about the difficulty
608 2011-02-06 18:51:54 <luke-jr> ?
609 2011-02-06 18:52:11 <echelon> would it be the same?
610 2011-02-06 18:52:15 <luke-jr> no
611 2011-02-06 18:52:21 <luke-jr> difficulty goes up every 2 weeks or so
612 2011-02-06 18:52:30 <echelon> hmm
613 2011-02-06 18:52:37 <ArtForz> ?
614 2011-02-06 18:52:48 <ArtForz> difficulty adjusts to keep 10 min/block
615 2011-02-06 18:53:04 <echelon> ah
616 2011-02-06 18:53:21 <ArtForz> if total hashrate stops going up, so will difficulty
617 2011-02-06 18:53:38 <luke-jr> if that happens, I'm selling all my bitcoins :P
618 2011-02-06 18:54:06 <echelon> at $0.01? :)
619 2011-02-06 18:54:19 <ArtForz> my guess, it'll happen in about 2 years at most
620 2011-02-06 18:54:34 <Necr0s> My bud tried to sell some and said it was rather diffcult to do.
621 2011-02-06 18:54:54 <ArtForz> ?
622 2011-02-06 18:55:12 <luke-jr> Necr0s: the only reason it would be difficult is selling above market value
623 2011-02-06 18:55:38 <Necr0s> Like every method offered seemed to carry some hefty fees or an $800 minimum transaction size.
624 2011-02-06 18:55:48 <ArtForz> ... so?
625 2011-02-06 18:56:02 <luke-jr> Necr0s: no idea what that's about
626 2011-02-06 18:56:08 <Necr0s> To get USD out.
627 2011-02-06 18:56:11 <ArtForz> and thats a problem because? ...
628 2011-02-06 18:56:17 <Necr0s> via mtgox.
629 2011-02-06 18:56:20 <luke-jr> Necr0s: so don't use mtgox
630 2011-02-06 18:56:34 <ArtForz> or just adjust price accordingly (duh)
631 2011-02-06 18:56:40 <luke-jr> with OTC and Market, fees are always paid by the buyer