1 2011-02-12 00:03:51 <Mango-chan> #
  2 2011-02-12 00:03:54 <Mango-chan> wow
  3 2011-02-12 00:03:56 <Mango-chan> 4 hours
  4 2011-02-12 00:03:58 <Mango-chan> 5*
  5 2011-02-12 00:04:10 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
  6 2011-02-12 00:04:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107547 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1316 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32945.20584512
  7 2011-02-12 00:06:46 <RBecker> ;;bt,calc 6287
  8 2011-02-12 00:06:47 <gribble> Error: "bt,calc" is not a valid command.
  9 2011-02-12 00:06:54 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6287
 10 2011-02-12 00:06:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6287 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 29 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 27 minutes, and 45 seconds
 11 2011-02-12 00:06:58 <RBecker> hm
 12 2011-02-12 00:07:03 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6349
 13 2011-02-12 00:07:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6349 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 29 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds
 14 2011-02-12 00:07:36 <RBecker> Can you have more than one client on the same recieving address?
 15 2011-02-12 00:08:14 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc 1
 16 2011-02-12 00:08:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3540 years, 37 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 54 minutes, and 20 seconds
 17 2011-02-12 00:08:19 <Mango-chan> lol
 18 2011-02-12 00:08:24 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 0
 19 2011-02-12 00:08:25 <gribble> Error: float division
 20 2011-02-12 00:08:27 <RBecker> heh
 21 2011-02-12 00:08:30 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
 22 2011-02-12 00:08:31 <gribble> Error: float division
 23 2011-02-12 00:08:33 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
 24 2011-02-12 00:08:34 <gribble> Error: float division
 25 2011-02-12 00:08:40 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .1
 26 2011-02-12 00:08:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .1 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 35407 years, 8 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 20 seconds
 27 2011-02-12 00:08:46 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .01
 28 2011-02-12 00:08:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .01 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 354071 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 20 seconds
 29 2011-02-12 00:08:49 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .0000001
 30 2011-02-12 00:08:50 <gribble> Error: float division
 31 2011-02-12 00:08:51 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .00001
 32 2011-02-12 00:08:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .00001 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 354071677 years, 0 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 23 minutes, and 0 seconds
 33 2011-02-12 00:08:55 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .000001
 34 2011-02-12 00:08:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .000001 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3540716770 years, 2 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes, and 8 seconds
 35 2011-02-12 00:09:00 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .0000001
 36 2011-02-12 00:09:01 <gribble> Error: float division
 37 2011-02-12 00:09:03 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,calc .000001
 38 2011-02-12 00:09:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at .000001 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3540716770 years, 2 weeks, 5 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes, and 8 seconds
 39 2011-02-12 00:09:07 <Mango-chan> :(
 40 2011-02-12 00:09:24 <cosurgi> Mango-chan: talk with him in private :), use /msg
 41 2011-02-12 00:10:46 <cjdelisle> hehehe bc,calc 2.2250738585072012e-308
 42 2011-02-12 00:11:30 <ntosme2> Error: ZOMG a really long time
 43 2011-02-12 00:12:08 <cjdelisle> more like infiniloop if written in java and using the double type.
 44 2011-02-12 00:12:33 <cjdelisle> Double.parseDouble("2.2250738585072012e-308"); <-- makes java hang
 45 2011-02-12 00:12:37 <RBecker> Anyone know a good windows GPU miner?
 46 2011-02-12 00:12:44 <Mango-chan> python miner
 47 2011-02-12 00:13:31 <RBecker> someone said I should be able to modify the script so that it only generates when my computer has been idle... do you know how to do that?
 48 2011-02-12 00:15:12 <nevezen> read the boards more?
 49 2011-02-12 00:16:50 <ntosme2> Mango-chan: thanks for the tip, found poclbm
 50 2011-02-12 00:17:01 <Mango-chan> np
 51 2011-02-12 00:23:53 <xelister> is it ok to mine on torred node, or is the slowdown too big?
 52 2011-02-12 00:25:50 <lfm> RBecker: they all do that
 53 2011-02-12 00:26:03 <RBecker> they all support it?
 54 2011-02-12 00:26:40 <nevezen> does m0mchil have a changelog between the last and latest version?
 55 2011-02-12 00:44:12 <ntosme2> ~6200 khash/s ... 2000 times faster than my Core2Duo 3GHz
 56 2011-02-12 00:48:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 865 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 years, 4 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 25 minutes, and 56 seconds
 57 2011-02-12 00:48:52 <Hackbat> ;;bc,calc 865
 58 2011-02-12 00:49:03 <Hackbat> D:
 59 2011-02-12 00:49:10 <Hackbat> I NEED MORE POWER
 60 2011-02-12 00:49:40 <Hackbat> I need my gaming rig back
 61 2011-02-12 00:51:05 <RBecker> hey guys, can anyone help with this error? http://pastebin.com/k2LVsaNB
 62 2011-02-12 00:53:00 <RBecker> looks like I'm missing a file?
 63 2011-02-12 00:53:16 <cjdelisle> If block generation takes an avarage of 10 minutes for the entire world and we assume that every day the project becomes more popular, won't there be an ever increasing per transaction flat tax?
 64 2011-02-12 00:53:55 <RBecker> the file is there though
 65 2011-02-12 00:57:15 <ntosme2> so at a rate of ~1 block/year...is there any point in attempting to generate blocks?
 66 2011-02-12 00:59:05 <cjdelisle> how much is a block worth?
 67 2011-02-12 00:59:10 <RBecker> 50 bitcoins
 68 2011-02-12 00:59:21 <cjdelisle> so like 50 cents?
 69 2011-02-12 00:59:29 <cjdelisle> (I'm totally new)
 70 2011-02-12 00:59:31 <RBecker> depends on the price of the bitcoin when you decide to trade
 71 2011-02-12 00:59:44 <RBecker> they're around a dollar right now so about 50 bucks a block
 72 2011-02-12 00:59:48 <RBecker> it changes though
 73 2011-02-12 00:59:59 <RBecker> http://mtgox.com/
 74 2011-02-12 01:00:29 <RBecker> that's the most popular site but there are others
 75 2011-02-12 01:00:37 <cjdelisle> I suppose it would be kind of a lottery then.
 76 2011-02-12 01:00:46 <rapacity> is there any command on linux to check the temperature of an onboard ati graphics card?
 77 2011-02-12 01:00:47 <RBecker> rapacity, lmsensors?
 78 2011-02-12 01:01:02 <rapacity> I'll look that up, thanks
 79 2011-02-12 01:01:06 <RBecker> no problem
 80 2011-02-12 01:01:32 <ForceMajeure> export DISPLAY=:0
 81 2011-02-12 01:01:33 <ForceMajeure> aticonfig --adapter=1 --od-gettemperature
 82 2011-02-12 01:01:36 <cjdelisle> hmm it seems like more users --> more spending --> more transactions --> same # of blocks --> congestion collapse.
 83 2011-02-12 01:02:05 <rapacity> thanks as well :p
 84 2011-02-12 01:02:43 <davex__> Can bitcoind report how many hashes per second all GPU miners connected to it are doing?
 85 2011-02-12 01:03:27 <cjdelisle> should be able to guess using difficulty * number of new blocks per minute.
 86 2011-02-12 01:03:56 <Lachesis> cjdelisle, that won't indicate GPU miners vs CPU miners
 87 2011-02-12 01:04:10 <cjdelisle> derp misread
 88 2011-02-12 01:04:11 <davex__> so gethashespersecond is reporting CPU hashes only, right?
 89 2011-02-12 01:04:18 <RBecker> I'm getting RPC communication error, but I started bitcoin with bitcoin.exe -server
 90 2011-02-12 01:04:20 <RBecker> any ideas?
 91 2011-02-12 01:04:51 <Lachesis> davex__, i think it reports your total hps
 92 2011-02-12 01:04:54 <Lachesis> not all miners
 93 2011-02-12 01:04:56 <Lachesis> oh wait
 94 2011-02-12 01:05:01 <Lachesis> perhaps i misunderstand
 95 2011-02-12 01:06:34 <davex__> mine's reporting 0 even though I've got DiabloMiner running, claiming it's doing 600MH
 96 2011-02-12 01:07:08 <RBecker> hm, bad idea, setting the miner to high priority
 97 2011-02-12 01:07:12 <RBecker> got a nice khash/sec rate though
 98 2011-02-12 01:07:20 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6753
 99 2011-02-12 01:07:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6753 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 27 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 1 minute, and 19 seconds
100 2011-02-12 01:08:26 <cjdelisle> heh the NSA could probably stop this project in a heartbeat, just point their warehouses of sha256 hardware circuits at it and the difficulty would go through the roof overnight.
101 2011-02-12 01:08:41 <newsham> how does that stop it?
102 2011-02-12 01:08:54 <newsham> perhaps you misunderstand the goal
103 2011-02-12 01:08:58 <newsham> the goal isnt to make 50btc minig
104 2011-02-12 01:09:00 <newsham> mining
105 2011-02-12 01:09:13 <cjdelisle> hmm you're right, as soon as they stopped the difficulty would come back down wouldn't it.
106 2011-02-12 01:09:21 <afed> five hours
107 2011-02-12 01:09:27 <EvanR> NSA isnt already mining?
108 2011-02-12 01:09:45 <cjdelisle> If they were, I think you would know.
109 2011-02-12 01:09:54 <afed> that would be a misappropriation of NSA resources
110 2011-02-12 01:10:39 <cjdelisle> You can run millions of hardware sha circuits on a single chip and they no doubt have thousands of such chips.
111 2011-02-12 01:11:32 <cjdelisle> hmm... "thousands of hardware sha circuits on a single chip and they no doubt have millions" <-- that looks more accurtite.
112 2011-02-12 01:11:55 <cjdelisle> <-- security bastard ;)
113 2011-02-12 01:12:37 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 5995
114 2011-02-12 01:12:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5995 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 30 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 45 minutes, and 28 seconds
115 2011-02-12 01:12:41 <RBecker> eesh
116 2011-02-12 01:13:07 <davex__> what card?
117 2011-02-12 01:14:04 <afed> that is probably a computer
118 2011-02-12 01:14:56 <Mango-chan> no shit
119 2011-02-12 01:20:33 <RBecker> ;;bt,calc 644
120 2011-02-12 01:20:35 <gribble> Error: "bt,calc" is not a valid command.
121 2011-02-12 01:20:41 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 944
122 2011-02-12 01:20:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 944 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 years, 39 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 39 minutes, and 4 seconds
123 2011-02-12 01:21:00 <RBecker> that's what happens when you set epu to power saving mode on an amd system folks ^
124 2011-02-12 01:21:19 <afed> i think i'd use that with the pool and not by itself
125 2011-02-12 01:21:30 <RBecker> uh, yeah
126 2011-02-12 01:21:38 <RBecker> I was just playing with it anyways
127 2011-02-12 01:22:13 <jdankanyin> hey all can someone help me out when i start my diablominer i get this for an error Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
128 2011-02-12 01:22:56 <RBecker> I get that with the python miner
129 2011-02-12 01:23:15 <jdankanyin> i have port 8333 open
130 2011-02-12 01:23:24 <davex__> setup a config file and run bitcoind
131 2011-02-12 01:24:14 <RBecker> I put my config file in C:UsersRyanAppDataRoamingitcoinitcoin.conf
132 2011-02-12 01:24:15 <jdankanyin> i got a config file but i didnt run bitcoidd
133 2011-02-12 01:24:20 <RBecker> with rpcuser= and rpcpass=
134 2011-02-12 01:24:28 <RBecker> but I still get the error
135 2011-02-12 01:24:30 <jdankanyin> yep me too
136 2011-02-12 01:24:31 <davex__> think it's rpcpassword
137 2011-02-12 01:24:34 <RBecker> hm
138 2011-02-12 01:24:41 <RBecker> lets see
139 2011-02-12 01:24:51 <theymos> It is rpcpassword.
140 2011-02-12 01:25:00 <jdankanyin> i will try that
141 2011-02-12 01:25:01 <RBecker> oh, I have rpcpassword
142 2011-02-12 01:25:07 <RBecker> rpcuser=Ryan
143 2011-02-12 01:25:11 <RBecker> and rpcpassword=hidden
144 2011-02-12 01:25:16 <RBecker> it's not actually "hidden" but yeah
145 2011-02-12 01:25:31 <davex__> point at localhost, not at your ip address.
146 2011-02-12 01:25:41 <RBecker> C:UsersRyanAppDataRoamingBitcoinitcoin.conf is the right location for it, right?
147 2011-02-12 01:26:01 <davex__> dk, not a windows user.
148 2011-02-12 01:26:15 <jdankanyin> mine is all set to that already
149 2011-02-12 01:27:01 <jdankanyin> i got it in both directories in roaming and in c:/bitcoin directory
150 2011-02-12 01:27:14 <[Noodles]> Roaming is fine
151 2011-02-12 01:27:46 <RBecker> aha, I got it
152 2011-02-12 01:27:51 <jdankanyin> davex how do you point to localhost
153 2011-02-12 01:27:58 <RBecker> -o=localhost
154 2011-02-12 01:28:18 <[Noodles]> or just use no -o= at all
155 2011-02-12 01:28:20 <RBecker> This worked for me... poclbm.exe --user=Ryan --pass=Hidden --host=localhost --device=0
156 2011-02-12 01:28:22 <RBecker> that got it working
157 2011-02-12 01:28:37 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48433
158 2011-02-12 01:28:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48433 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes, and 13 seconds
159 2011-02-12 01:28:41 <RBecker> nice!
160 2011-02-12 01:28:45 <[Noodles]> no need for a host if it's running local
161 2011-02-12 01:28:57 <jdankanyin> ok thx for the help guys and great work on it so far its very promissing
162 2011-02-12 01:29:16 <theymos> You might as well run Bitcoin itself with -rpcpassword=x if you're running the miner with the password in the clear.
163 2011-02-12 01:29:17 <RBecker> Is there any way to make the script wait until my computer has been idle for 5 minutes before starting to generate?
164 2011-02-12 01:29:25 <cosurgi> ;;seen ArtForz
165 2011-02-12 01:29:25 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 hours, 32 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <ArtForz> err... the numbers are right there in the wiki page
166 2011-02-12 01:29:42 <RBecker> cause it makes my computer lag like crazy
167 2011-02-12 01:30:03 <cosurgi> whole this slashdot crown is so funny.
168 2011-02-12 01:30:06 <cosurgi> *drowd
169 2011-02-12 01:30:21 <cosurgi> hrk. crowd. time to sleep.
170 2011-02-12 01:30:33 <andrew12> lol
171 2011-02-12 01:30:34 <cosurgi> goodnight.
172 2011-02-12 01:30:36 <andrew12> nini
173 2011-02-12 01:30:36 <RBecker> theymos, do you know?
174 2011-02-12 01:30:38 <RBecker> if there's a way
175 2011-02-12 01:30:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48533 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds
176 2011-02-12 01:30:51 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48533
177 2011-02-12 01:30:56 <RBecker> meh
178 2011-02-12 01:31:13 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 2339664
179 2011-02-12 01:31:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2339664 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 13 hours, 15 minutes, and 24 seconds
180 2011-02-12 01:31:18 <cosurgi> meh
181 2011-02-12 01:31:23 <andrew12> heh
182 2011-02-12 01:31:29 <andrew12> ;;bc,calc 600
183 2011-02-12 01:31:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 5 years, 46 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 27 minutes, and 53 seconds
184 2011-02-12 01:31:33 <andrew12> meh
185 2011-02-12 01:31:40 <RBecker> andrew12, I got the gpu miner going
186 2011-02-12 01:31:43 <andrew12> cool
187 2011-02-12 01:31:47 <RBecker> yeah
188 2011-02-12 01:31:58 <RBecker> except it slows it down like shit
189 2011-02-12 01:32:01 <theymos> RBecker: I doubt there is. IIRC changing (increasing?) the framerate switch in diablominer is supposed to improve desktop performance.
190 2011-02-12 01:32:07 <andrew12> RBecker: did you expect it not to?
191 2011-02-12 01:32:11 <RBecker> andrew12, no
192 2011-02-12 01:32:25 <RBecker> theymos, is diablominer the python miner?
193 2011-02-12 01:32:31 <andrew12> no
194 2011-02-12 01:32:31 <cosurgi> diablo's works best on dedicated boxes.
195 2011-02-12 01:32:32 <theymos> No.
196 2011-02-12 01:32:39 <andrew12> poclbm is the python miner
197 2011-02-12 01:32:46 <RBecker> there's an option for frames in here
198 2011-02-12 01:32:59 <theymos> Maybe that's the same thing.
199 2011-02-12 01:33:01 <RBecker> should I set it?
200 2011-02-12 01:33:11 <RBecker> -f FRAMES, --frames=FRAMES
201 2011-02-12 01:33:18 <[Noodles]> --frames=30 is default on poclbm, try set it to 70 or so
202 2011-02-12 01:33:23 <RBecker> k
203 2011-02-12 01:33:46 <RBecker> lower khash/sec
204 2011-02-12 01:33:48 <RBecker> not as much lag
205 2011-02-12 01:33:51 <[Noodles]> yeah
206 2011-02-12 01:33:57 <RBecker> need to tweak it more
207 2011-02-12 01:34:00 <[Noodles]> higher frames==lower hash
208 2011-02-12 01:34:06 <RBecker> still too laggy for me
209 2011-02-12 01:34:45 <RBecker> there, 125 seems good
210 2011-02-12 01:34:49 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 45868
211 2011-02-12 01:34:50 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 45868 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 4 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 57 seconds
212 2011-02-12 01:35:24 <RBecker> I might only run the gpu script while I'm afk, and have it run normally
213 2011-02-12 01:35:58 <Guest11663> I am planning on starting a bit net wallet i was wondering if it is a safe as other p2p networks?
214 2011-02-12 01:36:03 <[Noodles]> create 2 start-files, one with 125, one with 5
215 2011-02-12 01:36:12 <RBecker> erm, 5?
216 2011-02-12 01:36:19 <[Noodles]> or 1 if you like ^.^
217 2011-02-12 01:36:26 <RBecker> wouldn't that like blow my gpu up
218 2011-02-12 01:36:40 <[Noodles]> maybe, if you don't cool it
219 2011-02-12 01:36:41 <andrew12> the world may never know
220 2011-02-12 01:37:06 <[Noodles]> in set those that i'm not working on to 5
221 2011-02-12 01:37:25 <[Noodles]> every hash counts ^.^
222 2011-02-12 01:37:25 <theymos> Your OS probably supplies a facility to start/end tasks depending on idleness. The Windows task scheduler can do it, I believe.
223 2011-02-12 01:38:17 <andrew12> RBecker: what's with the crazy pm script
224 2011-02-12 01:38:46 <RBecker> andrew12: too many fake PMs
225 2011-02-12 01:39:01 <andrew12> i can assure you it's safe on freenode :p
226 2011-02-12 01:39:08 <andrew12> at least in the bitcoin channels
227 2011-02-12 01:39:30 <theymos> Guest11663: You're starting a Bitcoin wallet? What do you mean by "safe"?
228 2011-02-12 01:39:43 <jdankanyin> kool i got it working thx guys
229 2011-02-12 01:41:15 <Guest11663> the program in general, is it safe to download and will I be able to keep my general anonymity with the right precaution
230 2011-02-12 01:43:05 <theymos> Guest11663: It's safe to download and run. Anonymity is not good. See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity . If you want anonymity, the best bet is to create a separate MyBitcoin account for anonymity-requiring tasks, and only use that account for anonymous transactions.
231 2011-02-12 01:44:01 <Guest11663> how is the general community?
232 2011-02-12 01:45:50 <theymos> The Bitcoin community is the best community on Earth.
233 2011-02-12 01:46:02 <jdankanyin> ok i got it working but it not showing up in the gui just in the commandline so how do i connect it to my account
234 2011-02-12 01:46:32 <theymos> There's no indication in the Bitcoin GUI when you have an attached miner running.
235 2011-02-12 01:46:53 <jdankanyin> ah ok
236 2011-02-12 01:48:30 <jdankanyin> so where do i check to see how many blocks i have then
237 2011-02-12 01:49:27 <theymos> When you find a block, you'll get the normal "Generated" transaction. You might want to test on testnet to make sure it's all set up correctly.
238 2011-02-12 01:49:34 <jdankanyin> my khash for my miner is 24816 while it shows in the gui as 5299
239 2011-02-12 01:50:01 <theymos> Attached hash/s isn't reported in the GUI. That's CPU mining speed. You can turn off CPU mining if you want.
240 2011-02-12 01:50:21 <jdankanyin> na i run both no problem
241 2011-02-12 01:51:21 <RBecker> I have CPU and GPU mining going
242 2011-02-12 01:51:22 <jdankanyin> i got the free coins and then i sent some coins to myself and it showed up
243 2011-02-12 01:51:23 <RBecker> at the same time
244 2011-02-12 01:51:27 <RBecker> cuz I'm cool like that
245 2011-02-12 01:52:04 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 46260
246 2011-02-12 01:52:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46260 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes, and 9 seconds
247 2011-02-12 01:53:57 <jdankanyin> rbecker how many graphic cards you got going and are they over clocked
248 2011-02-12 01:54:08 <RBecker> 1, and yes, it's factory overclocked
249 2011-02-12 01:54:24 <jdankanyin> im runing a nividia 9800
250 2011-02-12 01:54:58 <RBecker> nvidia gtx 460
251 2011-02-12 01:55:13 <RBecker> I would be getting more khash/s but I have it thorttled since I'm using it
252 2011-02-12 01:55:19 <jdankanyin> im only getting 28560/s
253 2011-02-12 01:55:35 <RBecker> I would be getting 48,000 something
254 2011-02-12 01:55:41 <jdankanyin> are you on windows
255 2011-02-12 01:55:43 <RBecker> yes
256 2011-02-12 01:55:46 <RBecker> python miner
257 2011-02-12 01:55:54 <jdankanyin> yea im the same
258 2011-02-12 01:56:00 <RBecker> CPU and GPU both going
259 2011-02-12 01:56:04 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 6010
260 2011-02-12 01:56:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6010 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 30 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 42 seconds
261 2011-02-12 01:56:07 <jdankanyin> your card is newer then mine
262 2011-02-12 01:56:07 <RBecker> that's CPU miner ^
263 2011-02-12 01:56:22 <RBecker> and as I said it's also factory overclocked
264 2011-02-12 01:56:35 <joe_1> What do you do if you forgot your mybitcoin password
265 2011-02-12 01:56:43 <jdankanyin> rbecker what processor i got a q6600
266 2011-02-12 01:56:54 <RBecker> phenom ii x4 955
267 2011-02-12 01:57:03 <RBecker> 3.2ghz, overclocked to 3.6
268 2011-02-12 01:57:19 <jdankanyin> mine is only 2.4 i didnt overclock it yet
269 2011-02-12 01:57:40 <RBecker> what's your khash/s, or are you not running a CPU miner?
270 2011-02-12 01:58:09 <jdankanyin> my gpu miner is 24,592 my cpu miner is 4390
271 2011-02-12 01:58:38 <jdankanyin> cpu miner has 107569 blocks
272 2011-02-12 01:58:44 <RBecker> they both should
273 2011-02-12 01:58:46 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
274 2011-02-12 01:58:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107569 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1294 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33252.56859708
275 2011-02-12 01:59:11 <davex__> what's the bitcoind command to list all transactions for all accounts?  i can't seem to get it right
276 2011-02-12 01:59:16 <ntosme2> My geforce6800 only gets 6200khps
277 2011-02-12 02:00:07 <[Noodles]> 6800? that's supposed to be 8600, isn't it?
278 2011-02-12 02:00:19 <jdankanyin> im runing a quadcore processor does that do anything
279 2011-02-12 02:00:23 <ntosme2> hmm, correct
280 2011-02-12 02:00:27 <Guest11663> what goods and services can be purhased with bit coins?
281 2011-02-12 02:00:45 <jdankanyin> guest gold
282 2011-02-12 02:01:13 <theymos> davex__: Isn't it just "listtransactions"?
283 2011-02-12 02:01:24 <jdankanyin> guest check out the faq and it gives sites that accept bitcoins there as well
284 2011-02-12 02:01:36 <davex__> theymos, nah, it wants <account>
285 2011-02-12 02:01:42 <davex__> which i don't know how to get
286 2011-02-12 02:01:57 <theymos> What version are you using? Try "listtransactions '*'"
287 2011-02-12 02:02:40 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48530
288 2011-02-12 02:02:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48530 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 25 seconds
289 2011-02-12 02:02:58 <davex__> that returned an empty list, but i know i have transactions
290 2011-02-12 02:03:02 <davex__> 31900 is the version
291 2011-02-12 02:05:49 <Vladimir__> guest: anything accepting cards (via pepaid debit card funded by bitcoins), anything on amazon (via giftcards bought for bitcoins) etc...
292 2011-02-12 02:06:47 <theymos> davex__: Ah; that feature was added in a later SVN version. 0.3.19 doesn't support listing all transactions.
293 2011-02-12 02:07:04 <davex__> oh...  ok
294 2011-02-12 02:07:15 <davex__> thanks for checking
295 2011-02-12 02:09:21 <theymos> There will probably be a 0.3.20 release soon. I believe we're hoping that Satoshi will become available so he can do a proper build.
296 2011-02-12 02:17:18 <rapacity> what'll happen to bitcoin if satoshi dies?
297 2011-02-12 02:17:49 <Netsniper> is he still alive?
298 2011-02-12 02:18:27 <theymos> Gavin says he is alive, but busy.
299 2011-02-12 02:19:05 <andrew12> alibusy
300 2011-02-12 02:32:04 <purpleposeidon> poseidon: AH HAH! Your nick is my computer login name. Connecting to freenode with irssi? Every time, man.
301 2011-02-12 02:34:13 <andrew12> o_o
302 2011-02-12 02:41:06 <tomboy64> good evening
303 2011-02-12 02:41:37 <tomboy64> is someone here familiy with poclbm on linux?
304 2011-02-12 02:41:46 <hacim> some are familiar
305 2011-02-12 02:41:55 <RBecker> I use it on Windows
306 2011-02-12 02:42:11 <tomboy64> i managed to get cuda running for my nvidia chip
307 2011-02-12 02:42:22 <RBecker> I do that
308 2011-02-12 02:42:27 <tomboy64> bitcoin is running at around 500khashes
309 2011-02-12 02:43:02 <tomboy64> bitcoin is compiled at revision 186 + patched (the patch didn't work with bitcoin-latest)
310 2011-02-12 02:43:08 <RBecker> You trying to figure out how long it'll take to do a block?
311 2011-02-12 02:43:28 <tomboy64> now when i try to run poclbm it asks me again and again for username and password
312 2011-02-12 02:43:36 <tomboy64> stating every time it can't communicate
313 2011-02-12 02:43:37 <RBecker> did you specify it when starting up?
314 2011-02-12 02:43:48 <tomboy64> i ran bitcoin with -server
315 2011-02-12 02:43:55 <RBecker> with --user=user and --pass=password?
316 2011-02-12 02:43:59 <tomboy64> yes
317 2011-02-12 02:44:14 <RBecker> you ran poclbm with --user and --pass
318 2011-02-12 02:44:15 <RBecker> ?
319 2011-02-12 02:44:46 <RBecker> tomboy64 ^
320 2011-02-12 02:44:54 <theymos> r186 is quite old. An incompatability is possible.
321 2011-02-12 02:45:01 <tomboy64> RBecker, yes, i did.
322 2011-02-12 02:45:10 <RBecker> tomboy64, try --host=localhost
323 2011-02-12 02:45:11 <tomboy64> theymos, i have the same problem with bitcoin latest.
324 2011-02-12 02:45:26 <tomboy64> RBecker, i tried --host=127.0.0.1
325 2011-02-12 02:45:37 <RBecker> humor me, try localhost
326 2011-02-12 02:45:58 <tomboy64> doesn't work
327 2011-02-12 02:46:05 <tomboy64> same result
328 2011-02-12 02:46:10 <theymos> Can Bitcoin communicate with its own RPC? e.g. ./bitcoin getinfo
329 2011-02-12 02:46:12 <tomboy64> it's something with json-rpc
330 2011-02-12 02:46:18 <tomboy64> hummm
331 2011-02-12 02:47:00 <tomboy64> theymos, apparently.
332 2011-02-12 02:47:05 <tomboy64> the results look sane
333 2011-02-12 02:48:48 <theymos> The user/password you're giving poclbm match the values in bitcoin.conf?
334 2011-02-12 02:49:19 <tomboy64> theymos, yes
335 2011-02-12 02:50:07 <tomboy64> theymos, i even tried putting the values into the default-stuff in poclbm
336 2011-02-12 02:51:52 <theymos> If you're on Linux, I'd try looking at tcpdump to see what error poclbcm is getting.
337 2011-02-12 02:52:25 <tomboy64> theymos, i am. you got the options handy?
338 2011-02-12 02:52:27 <tomboy64> :-]
339 2011-02-12 02:53:14 <theymos> tcpdump -ni lo tcp port 8332
340 2011-02-12 02:54:55 <theymos> That'll show you whether any connection is happening at all. If there is anything, then it's almost certainly a password problem.
341 2011-02-12 02:55:15 <andrew12> how hard would it be to write a bitcoin miner in brainfuck? :D
342 2011-02-12 02:55:26 <tomboy64> ...
343 2011-02-12 02:55:31 <tomboy64> try it out
344 2011-02-12 02:57:17 <tomboy64> theymos, ok, comm is there.
345 2011-02-12 02:57:26 <tomboy64> just to be sure: rpcuser=bla
346 2011-02-12 02:57:31 <tomboy64> rpcpass=blubb
347 2011-02-12 02:57:42 <tomboy64> with bla and blubb being the values?
348 2011-02-12 02:57:49 <theymos> Yes.
349 2011-02-12 02:57:51 <RBecker> rpcpassword
350 2011-02-12 02:57:53 <RBecker> not rpcpass
351 2011-02-12 02:57:58 <theymos> Oh; right.
352 2011-02-12 02:58:46 <tomboy64> o.O
353 2011-02-12 02:59:01 <RBecker> maybe that was your mistake
354 2011-02-12 02:59:54 <theymos> If that's the problem, I wonder why ./bitcoin getinfo worked.
355 2011-02-12 03:00:23 <tomboy64> HAH!
356 2011-02-12 03:00:39 <RBecker> got it?
357 2011-02-12 03:00:43 <tomboy64> now i get: Wrong data format from RPC! :-D
358 2011-02-12 03:00:53 <RBecker> that's getting somewhere at least
359 2011-02-12 03:00:57 <tomboy64> yup
360 2011-02-12 03:01:21 <jdankanyin> how do i check my account to make sure my miner is delivering there
361 2011-02-12 03:01:26 <tomboy64> is the patch from https://github.com/m0mchil/bitcoin-getwork necessary?
362 2011-02-12 03:01:56 <theymos> That's the cause of the problem: that getwork is incompatable with Bitcoin's getwork (supported in later versions).
363 2011-02-12 03:02:08 <RBecker> I use the python miner with no problems
364 2011-02-12 03:02:37 <tomboy64> oh
365 2011-02-12 03:02:44 <jdankanyin> rbecker how do you check out how many blocks you made with your miner
366 2011-02-12 03:02:50 <tomboy64> so i should update to latest bitcoin *without* that patch?
367 2011-02-12 03:02:59 <RBecker> jdankanyin, not sure, haven't really looked into it much
368 2011-02-12 03:03:01 <theymos> Yes. Recent versions have their own getwork.
369 2011-02-12 03:04:03 <jdankanyin> rbecker with the cpu you can tell but the miner you cant seems alittle odd to me then runing it
370 2011-02-12 03:04:40 <RBecker> yeah, not sure, haven't really looked into it much
371 2011-02-12 03:05:53 <jdankanyin> i think something is missing  or it needs to transfer from the miner to the cpu
372 2011-02-12 03:06:55 <[Noodles]> blocks show up the same way for gpu-miners and cpu-miners, there's no difference
373 2011-02-12 03:07:14 <jdankanyin> noodles where can i see thoese blocks then
374 2011-02-12 03:07:18 <[Noodles]> if you are lucky enough to find one, you're GUI will tell you
375 2011-02-12 03:08:06 <[Noodles]> your m,iner tells you, it found a hash, your GUI/bitcoind tells you that a block has been generated
376 2011-02-12 03:08:47 <jdankanyin> ah ok
377 2011-02-12 03:09:03 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
378 2011-02-12 03:09:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107578 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1285 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 23 hours, 24 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33294.07018659
379 2011-02-12 03:09:16 <[Noodles]> connect your miner to the pool, to see what it looks like when your miner finds a hash
380 2011-02-12 03:09:42 <[Noodles]> you'll see results faster on the pool (or on testnet)
381 2011-02-12 03:09:43 <jdankanyin> noodles how do i do that
382 2011-02-12 03:09:59 <jdankanyin> i just started yesterday
383 2011-02-12 03:10:02 <[Noodles]> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
384 2011-02-12 03:10:06 <[Noodles]> create an account
385 2011-02-12 03:10:13 <[Noodles]> login, create a worker
386 2011-02-12 03:10:30 <[Noodles]> use the worker-details to start your miner
387 2011-02-12 03:10:53 <[Noodles]> pretty simple
388 2011-02-12 03:11:41 <doublec> 50 Ghash in the pool. wow. what % of the network is that now?
389 2011-02-12 03:13:06 <theymos> 19%
390 2011-02-12 03:14:21 <doublec> ok, less than I thought
391 2011-02-12 03:14:48 <gp5st1> what happens if you get a "net split" for a sig length of time? and you end up with two divergent chains?
392 2011-02-12 03:15:14 <theymos> If it lasts less than 100 blocks, there's no problem. Otherwise, lots of people lose transactions.
393 2011-02-12 03:15:34 <davex__> ;;bc,calc 50000000
394 2011-02-12 03:15:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 37 minutes and 13 seconds
395 2011-02-12 03:15:59 <gp5st1> theymos: why 100 blocks? what would happen then?
396 2011-02-12 03:16:49 <theymos> Generations can't be spent for 100 blocks (for this very reason), so you only end up with invalid transactions if a split lasts longer than that.
397 2011-02-12 03:17:00 <gp5st1> oh i see
398 2011-02-12 03:17:12 <theymos> The generations themselves would be invalid, of course.
399 2011-02-12 03:18:04 <gp5st1> i was thinking forward to something like mars colonization (lunar could still comm with reasonable, non-gaming latency)
400 2011-02-12 03:18:33 <theymos> A single Bitcoin network can't work in that situation. All miners must have less than a few seconds latency between each other.
401 2011-02-12 03:18:43 <gp5st1> hmm
402 2011-02-12 03:19:21 <gp5st1> i mean, there is still a bit of time before that; i wonder if btc could become almost git like where those trees could be merged
403 2011-02-12 03:20:33 <tomboy64> is there a way that i can see how many cores are being used?
404 2011-02-12 03:20:41 <gp5st1> top?
405 2011-02-12 03:21:15 <theymos> gp5st1: I don't see any way of doing it. Generations in one branch must become invalid when merged.
406 2011-02-12 03:21:27 <tomboy64> gp5st1, of my graphics card,t hat is
407 2011-02-12 03:21:45 <gp5st1> tomboy64: not sure, sorry
408 2011-02-12 03:21:58 <gp5st1> theymos: yeah, that would make sense
409 2011-02-12 03:22:08 <jdankanyin> ok how do i use the command bitcoind
410 2011-02-12 03:22:27 <gp5st1> theymos: otherwise you could end up with many more btcs than there are suppose to be
411 2011-02-12 03:22:27 <theymos> jdankanyin: bitcoind help
412 2011-02-12 03:22:27 <tomboy64> theymos, RBecker thanks for your support. i'm up to 3200khash/sec now with my gpu
413 2011-02-12 03:22:45 <RBecker> tomboy64, awesome :)
414 2011-02-12 03:22:47 <jdankanyin> thnk you
415 2011-02-12 03:23:00 <RBecker> tomboy64, lets see how long it'll take for you to generate a block
416 2011-02-12 03:23:05 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 3200
417 2011-02-12 03:23:06 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3200 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 year, 5 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 42 minutes, and 43 seconds
418 2011-02-12 03:23:12 <RBecker> ouch
419 2011-02-12 03:23:16 <RBecker> my cpu does better than that
420 2011-02-12 03:23:41 <jdankanyin> theymos it didnt work
421 2011-02-12 03:23:46 <tomboy64> wtf?
422 2011-02-12 03:23:53 <jdankanyin> do i type it in here only onin my commandline
423 2011-02-12 03:24:17 <theymos> gp5st1: Right. Probably each planet will have its own Bitcoin-based currency. If each currency has the same rules, I would expect the exchange rate between them to remain pretty stable.
424 2011-02-12 03:25:02 <theymos> jdankanyin: Type ./bitcoind help from the directory with the bitcoind binary.
425 2011-02-12 03:25:04 <gp5st1> theymos: that's a good point
426 2011-02-12 03:25:16 <tomboy64> RBecker, why so long?
427 2011-02-12 03:25:23 <lfm> theymos: I think you could have an interplanetary biycoin with one block per day or something
428 2011-02-12 03:25:24 <tomboy64> -.-
429 2011-02-12 03:25:30 <RBecker> tomboy64, what's your card
430 2011-02-12 03:25:43 <jdankanyin> theymos ah ok i was in wrong directory
431 2011-02-12 03:26:17 <tomboy64> RBecker, gt218
432 2011-02-12 03:26:23 <theymos> lfm: Yeah; that'd probably work. So maybe planetary currencies + an interplanetary one.
433 2011-02-12 03:26:26 <tomboy64> should have 16 cores
434 2011-02-12 03:26:56 <RBecker> tomboy64, ouch
435 2011-02-12 03:26:57 <RBecker> that's slow
436 2011-02-12 03:27:04 <RBecker> I've got a 700Mhz core clock and 366 cores
437 2011-02-12 03:27:12 <RBecker> GTX 460
438 2011-02-12 03:27:14 <tomboy64> 366? O.o
439 2011-02-12 03:27:19 <tomboy64> harumph
440 2011-02-12 03:27:27 <theymos> Do you have genproclimit set to 16?
441 2011-02-12 03:27:31 <RBecker> heh
442 2011-02-12 03:27:49 <tomboy64> uhhhhhmmmm
443 2011-02-12 03:27:51 <tomboy64> no? :-D
444 2011-02-12 03:29:19 <tomboy64> theymos, how/where do i set it?
445 2011-02-12 03:29:26 <theymos> Oh; I was thinking CPU mining. Maybe poclbc has a similar setting, though.
446 2011-02-12 03:38:07 <jdankanyin> hey what does connect through socks4 proxy is that for connecting up your miner
447 2011-02-12 03:38:40 <theymos> No; it's for connecting through a proxy (for anonymity).
448 2011-02-12 03:55:05 <echelon> theymos, saw the new tor hidden service fallback nodes? :)
449 2011-02-12 03:55:40 <echelon> would be nice if there was node prioritization for them
450 2011-02-12 03:55:47 <theymos> I did, but I didn't feel like testing them. Do you know if they work?
451 2011-02-12 03:56:57 <echelon> they all work except the one i keep mentioning
452 2011-02-12 03:57:02 <echelon> i found out who operates it though
453 2011-02-12 03:57:16 <echelon> it's the same hidden service address mybitcoin.com uses
454 2011-02-12 03:57:29 <echelon> i'll contact him
455 2011-02-12 04:01:37 <presence> so whats the best way to cool a case down where I can't add additional fans
456 2011-02-12 04:20:04 <bk128> presence: add faster fans.  make sure the fans are facing the right direction.  there should be cool air in front of the pc.  the back should have room for the pc to exhaust the hot air
457 2011-02-12 04:20:19 <bk128> don't keep it in a cabinet, remove dust from the heatsinks
458 2011-02-12 04:20:45 <bk128> upgrade heatsinks
459 2011-02-12 04:21:02 <Lachesis> dusting it off can make a huge difference
460 2011-02-12 04:21:04 <bk128> video card fans can get clogged with dust,  wipe it off with a qtip or something
461 2011-02-12 04:21:15 <Lachesis> if you have an air compressor, blow it into the fans
462 2011-02-12 04:21:22 <bk128> careful removing heatsinks though.  and don't power up a board if you got water on it
463 2011-02-12 04:21:35 <Lachesis> don't use water, use rubbing alcohol
464 2011-02-12 04:22:03 <Lachesis> i've been kinda wanting to make a water cooling rig
465 2011-02-12 04:22:05 <Lachesis> just for fun
466 2011-02-12 04:22:11 <bk128> don't let the fans spin when you blow compressed air on them.  stick something in gently to prevent them from spinning
467 2011-02-12 04:22:19 <Lachesis> ^^ oh yeah, that's impt
468 2011-02-12 04:22:25 <Lachesis> or you'll burn out the bearings
469 2011-02-12 04:22:31 <Lachesis> it's like 20degF outside my place right now
470 2011-02-12 04:22:44 <Lachesis> with water cooling, i could put the heat exchanger outside
471 2011-02-12 04:22:48 <Lachesis> and my machine would be so freaking cool!
472 2011-02-12 04:22:56 <bk128> or run copper pipes underground
473 2011-02-12 04:23:13 <bk128> haha, it's 30 here now in chicago.   was -5 a bit ago.   pipes would need antifreeze
474 2011-02-12 04:23:39 <Lachesis> bk128, yeah, can't do underground b/c i'm in a 3rd flr apt
475 2011-02-12 04:24:06 <Lachesis> and i was considering using isopropyl alcohol instead of water
476 2011-02-12 04:24:16 <bk128> haha me too.  we're in a 3rd floor 2 bedroom apartment with bad insulation.  time to move in the spring
477 2011-02-12 04:24:32 <Lachesis> lol yeah
478 2011-02-12 04:24:36 <bk128> refrigeration systems for indoor snow and ice rinks pump ammonia through pipes I think
479 2011-02-12 04:24:45 <bk128> but  it has to be welded stainless or something
480 2011-02-12 04:24:49 <Lachesis> ammonia's nasty shit
481 2011-02-12 04:24:53 <bk128> yeah it is.
482 2011-02-12 04:25:10 <bk128> http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-cooling-with-a-passive-radiator/
483 2011-02-12 04:26:41 <Lachesis> in lieu of that, i want to put a duct to the window and run cold air in. probably as much work, and far less cool
484 2011-02-12 04:28:41 <bk128> just turn off the heater in your apartment and run your cpu at full speed
485 2011-02-12 04:28:56 <bk128> squirrels would climb into your computer through the duct
486 2011-02-12 04:29:17 <Lachesis> bk128, lol yeah
487 2011-02-12 04:29:40 <ntosme2> bk128: that's terribly inefficient unless he's using electric space heaters already
488 2011-02-12 04:29:56 <Lachesis> can't control heat - i already have a window open b/c it gets so damn hot
489 2011-02-12 04:30:24 <Lachesis> ntosme2, i don't pay for it
490 2011-02-12 04:30:32 <bk128> too hot in the winter?
491 2011-02-12 04:30:40 <bk128> tlol
492 2011-02-12 04:30:46 <bk128> lol*
493 2011-02-12 04:30:48 <Lachesis> old steam heat
494 2011-02-12 04:30:53 <Lachesis> the building leaks heat, so they turn it up a ton to compensate
495 2011-02-12 04:30:58 <ntosme2> nice
496 2011-02-12 04:31:07 <Lachesis> by luck, i got a better room
497 2011-02-12 04:31:08 <Lachesis> and therefore am hto
498 2011-02-12 04:31:10 <Lachesis> i close the window at night b/c the heat turns down then
499 2011-02-12 04:31:12 <prax> been there before heh, windows open in the winter
500 2011-02-12 04:31:14 <Lachesis> and then open it when i wake up
501 2011-02-12 04:31:15 <Lachesis> yeah, kinda sucks
502 2011-02-12 04:31:21 <ntosme2> at least you get plenty of fresh air
503 2011-02-12 04:31:25 <Lachesis> lol yeah
504 2011-02-12 04:31:27 <Lachesis> smells great in my room
505 2011-02-12 04:31:30 <Lachesis> my roommate's room smells like a pigsty, and somehow he's cold in the winter. he's a skinny bloke, though, so i guess it makes sense.
506 2011-02-12 04:36:46 <[Noodles]> ntosme2: using your miner to heat, or your heater to mine, makes it even more efficient
507 2011-02-12 04:37:53 <ntosme2> I suppose I am doing the latter
508 2011-02-12 04:38:08 <Lachesis> heater to mine :)
509 2011-02-12 04:38:14 <ntosme2> 200 watts seems to sufficient to heat a bedroom
510 2011-02-12 04:38:18 <Lachesis> either is horribly inefficient
511 2011-02-12 04:40:11 <ntosme2> I think heating a single room with resistive heating may still win compared to 6 rooms with electric central air
512 2011-02-12 04:40:52 <RBecker> night guys
513 2011-02-12 04:41:26 <[Noodles]> not if those electrical heaters create bitcoins as a by-product
514 2011-02-12 04:41:34 <[Noodles]> that's the point
515 2011-02-12 04:42:41 <ntosme2> it would take roughly a year to "mine" $50 of bitcoins at their current value
516 2011-02-12 04:42:51 <[Noodles]> what?
517 2011-02-12 04:42:54 <RBecker> takes my gpu 3 weeka
518 2011-02-12 04:42:56 <RBecker> weeks*
519 2011-02-12 04:43:07 <[Noodles]> i currently create ~50btc a day
520 2011-02-12 04:43:16 <[Noodles]> that's about $50, isn't it?
521 2011-02-12 04:43:17 <Lachesis> [Noodles], what's your setup?
522 2011-02-12 04:43:19 <Lachesis> yes
523 2011-02-12 04:43:19 <RBecker> anyways, night
524 2011-02-12 04:43:40 <[Noodles]> but it doesnt cost me $50 a day
525 2011-02-12 04:43:42 <Lachesis> RBecker, night
526 2011-02-12 04:43:48 <RBecker> night
527 2011-02-12 04:43:57 <[Noodles]> and as a side-effect, it gets warm and comfy in here
528 2011-02-12 04:44:03 <Lachesis> [Noodles], not even when you count hw depreciation?
529 2011-02-12 04:44:08 <[Noodles]> not only for free, it makes me money
530 2011-02-12 04:44:19 <[Noodles]> not even then
531 2011-02-12 04:44:22 <Lachesis> nice
532 2011-02-12 04:44:30 <[Noodles]> my hw is already payed off
533 2011-02-12 04:44:34 <Lachesis> nice
534 2011-02-12 04:44:36 <Lachesis> what's the specs?
535 2011-02-12 04:44:39 <ntosme2> how much was your setup if I may ask?
536 2011-02-12 04:44:46 <[Noodles]> 1x5970 3x5850
537 2011-02-12 04:45:03 <[Noodles]> been ~$1200 or so
538 2011-02-12 04:45:31 <ntosme2> wow...5850s are pretty cheap
539 2011-02-12 04:45:36 <[Noodles]> yep
540 2011-02-12 04:45:43 <Lachesis> nice that's a good setup
541 2011-02-12 04:45:49 <Lachesis> how're you running 4 gpus?
542 2011-02-12 04:45:50 <[Noodles]> just bought 2 of them few days ago
543 2011-02-12 04:46:17 <[Noodles]> i'm not running 4 in a single machine (well, not yet)
544 2011-02-12 04:47:12 <[Noodles]> it's 3 systems, single 5850, dual5850, single5970 (which has another PCIe slot left)
545 2011-02-12 04:47:56 <[Noodles]> and i don't close my window at all ^.^
546 2011-02-12 04:49:12 <gp5st2> is there an android app? i see there is a bounty, but not aware if it's been won or if anyone is working on it
547 2011-02-12 04:51:16 <bk128> where are the cheapest 5850's you found?
548 2011-02-12 04:52:21 <[Noodles]> which brand?
549 2011-02-12 04:54:03 <[Noodles]> oh, where, not sure, i got mine for 150eur from a local shop
550 2011-02-12 04:54:52 <[Noodles]> i think luke said, he found one for 150usd, dont know if it was new though
551 2011-02-12 04:55:07 <ntosme2> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103085
552 2011-02-12 04:55:22 <ntosme2> $164 with rebate
553 2011-02-12 04:59:16 <citiz3n_gym> can those be unlocked
554 2011-02-12 04:59:21 <citiz3n_gym> or not
555 2011-02-12 05:14:57 <ntosme2> well I guess I now have a reason to buy a new gfx card
556 2011-02-12 05:15:25 <ntosme2> perhaps a GTX480...
557 2011-02-12 05:16:08 <[Noodles]> lol
558 2011-02-12 05:16:15 <[Noodles]> better don't
559 2011-02-12 05:16:29 <ntosme2> no?
560 2011-02-12 05:16:32 <[Noodles]> get an ATI card if you want to use it for mining
561 2011-02-12 05:16:53 <ntosme2> http://www.geeks3d.com/20100330/geforce-gtx-480-opencl-performance-tested/
562 2011-02-12 05:17:04 <ntosme2> those specs look pretty good
563 2011-02-12 05:17:18 <[Noodles]> no they dont
564 2011-02-12 05:17:22 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: why would you buy nvidia? thats stupid
565 2011-02-12 05:17:25 <Diablo-D3> slow as fuck shit
566 2011-02-12 05:17:38 <Diablo-D3> and very poor linux support
567 2011-02-12 05:17:39 <[Noodles]> 250W for 150Mhash isnt that good
568 2011-02-12 05:17:56 <[Noodles]> 100Mhash
569 2011-02-12 05:18:26 <[Noodles]> better get a 5850/5870, needs <200W and is good for 300Mhash
570 2011-02-12 05:18:51 <ntosme2> hmm...wonder why that is
571 2011-02-12 05:19:11 <Diablo-D3> because nvidia is fucking retarded
572 2011-02-12 05:19:17 <[Noodles]> :D
573 2011-02-12 05:19:24 <Diablo-D3> they have a shit integer engine in their ALUs
574 2011-02-12 05:19:43 <Diablo-D3> and they refuse to fix it even though they market their shit for scientific GPGPU shit
575 2011-02-12 05:20:38 <ntosme2> the scientific market uses floating point predominately
576 2011-02-12 05:20:47 <Diablo-D3> nope
577 2011-02-12 05:21:27 <Diablo-D3> and even if that was true
578 2011-02-12 05:21:33 <ntosme2> how is ATI linux support?
579 2011-02-12 05:21:46 <Diablo-D3> if they're doing inexact calculations, and they'd probably opt for double precision...
580 2011-02-12 05:21:58 <Diablo-D3> and per watt and per dollar both, 69xx beats the shit out of anything nvidia offers
581 2011-02-12 05:23:26 <Diablo-D3> ntosme2: but remember, encryption IS part of the scientific use of gpgpu
582 2011-02-12 05:23:31 <Diablo-D3> and you use integer for that
583 2011-02-12 05:23:51 <Diablo-D3> and nvidia is absolutely fucked on integer performance
584 2011-02-12 05:28:47 <dissipate_> i want a GPU that does arbitrary length floating point operations
585 2011-02-12 05:29:28 <cjdelisle> arbitrary?
586 2011-02-12 05:30:28 <dissipate_> yep
587 2011-02-12 05:30:49 <cjdelisle> ^that's what I was thinking
588 2011-02-12 05:31:16 <lfm> dissipategmp isnt ported to opencl yet
589 2011-02-12 05:31:26 <dissipate_> Diablo-D3 has the idea
590 2011-02-12 05:31:30 <dissipate_> fixed precision is sooooo '80s
591 2011-02-12 05:31:40 <cjdelisle> I think you're looking for a multiprecision library.
592 2011-02-12 05:31:56 <cjdelisle> according to google they exist for opencl
593 2011-02-12 05:32:05 <lfm> ya gmp but it doesnt support gpus
594 2011-02-12 05:32:12 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, no, i want it built into hardware because software based arbitrary precision is slower
595 2011-02-12 05:33:13 <cjdelisle> ahh, probably going to have to wait unless you have a few million to have a processor made
596 2011-02-12 05:33:28 <lfm> dissipate_ kinda depends if software has better algorithms it could be faster
597 2011-02-12 05:33:47 <Diablo-D3> is it bad that I actually have the big o ost to listen to just for cases like this?
598 2011-02-12 05:35:04 <dissipate_> lfm, if the floating point values don't fit into a register, then it's going to be slower.
599 2011-02-12 05:35:37 <cjdelisle> umm arbitrary size values don't fit in registers.
600 2011-02-12 05:36:07 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, that was my point
601 2011-02-12 05:36:21 <cjdelisle> unless you have an arbitrary size register in which case I would like to see it.
602 2011-02-12 05:36:21 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, hence, arbitrary floating point can't be as fast
603 2011-02-12 05:36:22 <lfm> dissipate_ if software uses fft and hardware uses schoolboy multiply the sofware will be faster on sufficiently large numbers
604 2011-02-12 05:37:45 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, there is actually theoretically such a thing in quantum computers.
605 2011-02-12 05:38:08 <dissipate_> pretty much arbitrary amount of space
606 2011-02-12 05:38:51 <lfm> do you want practical or pie in sky computer?
607 2011-02-12 05:39:29 <dissipate_> lfm, practical of course
608 2011-02-12 05:39:35 <ntosme2> or perhaps Pi in the sky
609 2011-02-12 05:39:43 <lfm> forget quantum
610 2011-02-12 05:41:44 <cjdelisle> "theoretically such a thing in quantum" theoretically is the magic word with anything quantum
611 2011-02-12 05:42:48 <dissipate_> lfm, what i would really like to have is a cloud based 'user space', where i could change operating systems at will, use as much or as little CPU/GPU as i wanted and have access to and install desktop apps as easy as on my cell phone. then i could get rid of my laptop and pretty much all other hardware, and log in anywhere with a thin client.
612 2011-02-12 05:43:43 <lfm> dissipate_ and I spoze you want it free?
613 2011-02-12 05:44:26 <dissipate_> lfm, no i would be willing to pay, just like i pay for internet etc. but it's something i have wanted for a long time.
614 2011-02-12 05:45:45 <cjdelisle> But you wouldn't want all of your secrets to be sold to the highest bidder would you?
615 2011-02-12 05:46:42 <lfm> cjdelisle: use encrypted storage
616 2011-02-12 05:46:50 <dissipate_> lfm, another big advantage of a cloud based user space is you could use more exotic operating systems without the feeling of running in a virtual machine. e.g. wanna  run plan 9? no problem.
617 2011-02-12 05:47:12 <afed> you are on crack jfyi
618 2011-02-12 05:47:16 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, keep all non-secrets in cloud, and all secrets at home. :D
619 2011-02-12 05:48:55 <cjdelisle> "encrypted storage" + "quantum computers" hmm this doesn't sound good.
620 2011-02-12 05:49:59 <dissipate_> afed, why am i on crack?
621 2011-02-12 05:50:13 <afed> you could use more exotic operating systems without the feeling of running in a virtual machine. e.g. wanna  run plan 9? no problem.
622 2011-02-12 05:50:18 <afed> that part
623 2011-02-12 05:50:43 <cjdelisle> There are many reasons why people do crack, it's hard to know yours.
624 2011-02-12 05:51:14 <lfm> plan 9 is a cool os actually, just not widley supported
625 2011-02-12 05:51:30 <dissipate_> afed, why am i on crack? do you know about plan 9?
626 2011-02-12 05:52:27 <afed> not as much as you, i'm sure
627 2011-02-12 05:52:56 <dissipate_> well it's better than linux in a lot of ways
628 2011-02-12 05:53:07 <afed> but i wonder at your use of plan 9 being so extensive that you can tell whether it is running on metal or not
629 2011-02-12 05:53:39 <lfm> ya prolly almost all cloud stuff would be vms
630 2011-02-12 05:53:46 <lfm> VMs
631 2011-02-12 05:54:44 <afed> VMS would be good
632 2011-02-12 05:56:05 <dissipate_> afed, i would prefer not to worry about installing or managing OSes at all. i'd rather just select one from a menu and have it boot instantly.
633 2011-02-12 05:56:42 <afed> k
634 2011-02-12 05:58:36 <ntosme2> if we assume that sha-256 can approximate sha-1 in operations, we should buy Radeon HD 5830s http://golubev.com/gpuest.htm
635 2011-02-12 05:58:41 <dissipate_> afed, like i said above: a 'user space' accessed by a thin client, that is like using a desktop computer, but has expandable resources (depending on how much you are willing to pay) and an extensive assortment of operating systems and applications available instantly on demand.
636 2011-02-12 06:01:06 <cjdelisle> I think a much more likely future is your computer being at home but the screensaver using your internet connection to participate in a cloud and you get paid some little bit of money for it.
637 2011-02-12 06:01:11 <afed> dissipate_: VDI?
638 2011-02-12 06:01:29 <lfm> ntosme2: 5970 are fastest for mining
639 2011-02-12 06:01:53 <dissipate_> afed, that sounds about right.
640 2011-02-12 06:02:04 <ntosme2> lfm: on a price per hashing rate basis
641 2011-02-12 06:02:14 <dissipate_> i want it accessible from my home with all of the above.
642 2011-02-12 06:02:37 <lfm> consider watts/per hash/sec for long term cost
643 2011-02-12 06:04:31 <lfm> ntosme2: anyway sha1 may be not good estimate
644 2011-02-12 06:04:52 <Mango-chan> does share/s depend on the pool
645 2011-02-12 06:04:54 <Mango-chan> or is it uniform
646 2011-02-12 06:05:23 <lfm> Mango-chan: some pools dont use shares afaik
647 2011-02-12 06:05:30 <Mango-chan> if they do
648 2011-02-12 06:05:53 <lfm> Mango-chan: some pools may charge more fee/overhead
649 2011-02-12 06:06:09 <Mango-chan> no
650 2011-02-12 06:06:13 <Mango-chan> since bitpenny
651 2011-02-12 06:06:16 <Mango-chan> pays per share
652 2011-02-12 06:06:17 <Mango-chan> i was wondering
653 2011-02-12 06:06:27 <Mango-chan> if # of shares is divided equally
654 2011-02-12 06:06:55 <lfm> i think all use the same shares with just diff 1.0 target
655 2011-02-12 06:07:34 <echelon> i don't get the process involved in preventing the block files from getting too big
656 2011-02-12 06:07:55 <echelon> older transactions are expunged?
657 2011-02-12 06:08:02 <lfm> echelon: discard transactions that are spent?
658 2011-02-12 06:08:27 <echelon> hmm
659 2011-02-12 06:09:03 <presence> well I took off the side of the case and put a 2 600mm fan array beside it
660 2011-02-12 06:09:11 <lfm> echelon: you still keep all the block headers afaik
661 2011-02-12 06:09:24 <echelon> i see
662 2011-02-12 06:09:38 <presence> I have 2 120mm 4000rpm 70cfm fans in the box
663 2011-02-12 06:09:56 <lfm> echelon: no one has actually implemented it yet so its still a bit theoretical
664 2011-02-12 06:10:38 <presence> ;;bc,calc 770000
665 2011-02-12 06:10:39 <echelon> oh ok
666 2011-02-12 06:10:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 770000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 1 day, 16 hours, 16 minutes, and 53 seconds
667 2011-02-12 06:13:25 <lfm> ntosme2: perhpas this would be better to look at for gpu comparison : https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison
668 2011-02-12 06:13:50 <Mango-chan> anyone knowledgeable on bitcoin economics
669 2011-02-12 06:14:01 <Mango-chan> or well have a general gist of the whole thing
670 2011-02-12 06:14:04 <lfm> economics?
671 2011-02-12 06:14:07 <ntosme2> lfm: ah yes, that's what I was looking for
672 2011-02-12 06:14:30 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, somewhat.
673 2011-02-12 06:14:43 <cjdelisle> holy shit that's a slaughter
674 2011-02-12 06:14:50 <Mango-chan> i'm a student at a public research university
675 2011-02-12 06:15:02 <Mango-chan> nothing academic has been published on bitcoins
676 2011-02-12 06:15:04 <cjdelisle> re "Mining_Hardware_Comparison"
677 2011-02-12 06:15:09 <Mango-chan> i think i might look into resaerching it
678 2011-02-12 06:15:11 <Mango-chan> w/ a professor
679 2011-02-12 06:15:23 <lfm> Mango-chan: cool
680 2011-02-12 06:15:26 <Mango-chan> just because i think it's interesting
681 2011-02-12 06:15:32 <Mango-chan> but i don't want to be the main researcher
682 2011-02-12 06:15:35 <Mango-chan> since i don't have much time
683 2011-02-12 06:15:41 <Mango-chan> so i need to gather up my ideas/knowledge
684 2011-02-12 06:15:43 <Mango-chan> or learn more
685 2011-02-12 06:15:46 <Mango-chan> and then present it to a professor
686 2011-02-12 06:15:50 <Mango-chan> and hope they'll be interested
687 2011-02-12 06:15:52 <lfm> Mango-chan: kinda cross disipline computing and economics then eh?
688 2011-02-12 06:16:04 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, ok, so what are your questions?
689 2011-02-12 06:16:06 <Mango-chan> yeah i'm an intended business/cs major
690 2011-02-12 06:16:14 <Mango-chan> i might have some later
691 2011-02-12 06:16:22 <Mango-chan> well
692 2011-02-12 06:16:27 <cjdelisle> seems like integer math could be done on floating registers if you were careful.
693 2011-02-12 06:16:29 <Mango-chan> what type of economics would bitcoin fall under
694 2011-02-12 06:16:38 <Netsniper> Mango-chan: i was cs major, econ minor
695 2011-02-12 06:17:09 <ntosme2> 5970 is 294 Watts....ouch
696 2011-02-12 06:17:27 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, currency exchange
697 2011-02-12 06:17:33 <Mango-chan> monetary theory?
698 2011-02-12 06:17:36 <Mango-chan> or is it
699 2011-02-12 06:17:38 <Mango-chan> free market economics
700 2011-02-12 06:17:42 <Mango-chan> or is it finance related
701 2011-02-12 06:17:45 <dissipate_> yep
702 2011-02-12 06:17:45 <Mango-chan> it seems very broad
703 2011-02-12 06:17:57 <Mango-chan> so how should i present this as a subject of study
704 2011-02-12 06:17:58 <lfm> cjdelisle: yes, in fact the fastest long integers algorithms for VERY large numbers actually use dp floats
705 2011-02-12 06:18:04 <Mango-chan> any ideas
706 2011-02-12 06:18:05 <dissipate_> well, probably monetary theory, and definitely free market economics.
707 2011-02-12 06:18:39 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, present it as a study of unregulated markets
708 2011-02-12 06:19:04 <Mango-chan> good one
709 2011-02-12 06:19:07 <Mango-chan> i'll write that down
710 2011-02-12 06:19:11 <Mango-chan> what else?
711 2011-02-12 06:19:23 <dissipate_> currency speculation
712 2011-02-12 06:19:37 <Mango-chan> do you think the bitcoin thing is a bubble?
713 2011-02-12 06:19:41 <dissipate_> bitcoins are currently highly speculative
714 2011-02-12 06:19:46 <lfm> compare it to old unregulated markets where huge bubble/bust cycles were standard, bitcoin hasnt seen the huge bust side yet
715 2011-02-12 06:20:12 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, i personally do not, but i can see how others may think it is.
716 2011-02-12 06:20:18 <Mango-chan> explain your pov
717 2011-02-12 06:20:22 <Mango-chan> i mean
718 2011-02-12 06:20:27 <Mango-chan> i see both sides of the argument
719 2011-02-12 06:20:29 <Mango-chan> kind of
720 2011-02-12 06:20:37 <Mango-chan> one side is saying that this form of currency has actual use
721 2011-02-12 06:20:43 <Mango-chan> other side is saying people are buying bitcoins
722 2011-02-12 06:20:46 <Mango-chan> b/c they're speculating
723 2011-02-12 06:20:59 <lfm> we are currently at tulip mainia level of development
724 2011-02-12 06:21:29 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, i don't think it is because i see an explosion of sites and services for bitcoin
725 2011-02-12 06:21:59 <Mango-chan> lfm
726 2011-02-12 06:22:11 <Mango-chan> wait
727 2011-02-12 06:22:21 <dissipate_> if it was a bubble it would be just people hoarding them and not really doing much with them. however, i see all kinds of projects being built around bitcoin, including point of sale and even a virtual lottery system.
728 2011-02-12 06:22:33 <Mango-chan> byt
729 2011-02-12 06:22:34 <Mango-chan> but
730 2011-02-12 06:22:55 <Mango-chan> how much of the userbase is actually buying bitcoins/hoarding them
731 2011-02-12 06:23:08 <Mango-chan> to see if the value of it accumulates
732 2011-02-12 06:23:15 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, actually if i were  you i would focus in on the virtual aspect of bitcoin
733 2011-02-12 06:23:46 <Mango-chan> i wonder if anyone has studied e-gold
734 2011-02-12 06:23:48 <Mango-chan> or something
735 2011-02-12 06:23:49 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, there are entire purely virtual markets that could flourish with bitcoin. some of them are being built now.
736 2011-02-12 06:24:00 <Mango-chan> hm
737 2011-02-12 06:24:09 <Mango-chan> for example?
738 2011-02-12 06:24:17 <dissipate_> there is a bitcoin lottery
739 2011-02-12 06:24:22 <dissipate_> pure virtual fun
740 2011-02-12 06:24:46 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, http://taabl.datlatec.com/
741 2011-02-12 06:24:47 <Mango-chan> aren't mmo markets
742 2011-02-12 06:24:51 <Mango-chan> "purely virtual" as well?
743 2011-02-12 06:25:10 <dissipate_> yes, they are, but those are restricted to in game events for the most part
744 2011-02-12 06:25:19 <dissipate_> bitcoin is a virtual currency for anything, not just games.
745 2011-02-12 06:26:09 <Mango-chan> hm
746 2011-02-12 06:26:44 <Mango-chan> dissipate do you know about e-gold
747 2011-02-12 06:26:49 <dissipate_> yes i do
748 2011-02-12 06:26:53 <Mango-chan> would you say that btc and e-gold are fundamentally different?
749 2011-02-12 06:26:58 <Mango-chan> since e-gold is actually backed by gold
750 2011-02-12 06:27:00 <Mango-chan> by a company
751 2011-02-12 06:27:03 <dissipate_> yes i would
752 2011-02-12 06:27:27 <dissipate_> e-gold has a number of flaws  that bitcoin has overcome
753 2011-02-12 06:27:48 <dissipate_> first of all, it is operated centrally
754 2011-02-12 06:28:06 <Mango-chan> yes
755 2011-02-12 06:28:18 <dissipate_> so not only do you have to trust the e-gold operators, you have to believe they won't get shut down
756 2011-02-12 06:28:30 <Mango-chan> aha
757 2011-02-12 06:28:31 <Mango-chan> that's right
758 2011-02-12 06:28:51 <Mango-chan> and since bitcoin is distributed..
759 2011-02-12 06:28:52 <Mango-chan> yeah
760 2011-02-12 06:29:25 <dissipate_> second of all, you can ultimately only send e-gold to other e-gold account holders who have to provide credentials to open an e-gold account
761 2011-02-12 06:30:18 <dissipate_> that is a lot more friction and less anonymous than downloading a single app and creating a wallet on your own hard drive.
762 2011-02-12 06:30:30 <Mango-chan> right
763 2011-02-12 06:30:31 <cjdelisle> While we are talking about potantial problems, what about the fact that there will be more transactions per day as there are more users but the number of blocks will always remain 1 per 10 minute?
764 2011-02-12 06:30:54 <cjdelisle> It sounds like a scaling issue.
765 2011-02-12 06:31:24 <dissipate_> cjdelisle, actually, that's not as big of a problem as you think.
766 2011-02-12 06:31:29 <lfm> I think a government or simplarly large intitution could still take over bitcoin basically for the price of about 500 gpus
767 2011-02-12 06:32:04 <Mango-chan> how would you take over it?
768 2011-02-12 06:32:19 <lfm> out compuet the rest of the net
769 2011-02-12 06:32:20 <Mango-chan> can someone explain the whole security thing
770 2011-02-12 06:32:27 <cjdelisle> 500 gpus lol, they use hardware key search circuits.
771 2011-02-12 06:32:53 <dissipate_> lfm, i doubt that,haha.
772 2011-02-12 06:32:55 <lfm> 500 gpus cheaper
773 2011-02-12 06:33:03 <cjdelisle> thousands or even hundreds of thousands to a die, probably millions of dies to a building.
774 2011-02-12 06:33:30 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, did you see my private message?
775 2011-02-12 06:35:07 <lfm> if you read the original bitcoin paper, it outlines how to take over. you only need more than 51% of the computing power of the net.
776 2011-02-12 06:36:08 <cjdelisle> Well it's good to hear that the attack has been discussed.
777 2011-02-12 06:36:10 <lfm> as time goes on it gets harder with more miners grinding
778 2011-02-12 06:36:35 <cjdelisle> Still search circuits pwn all.
779 2011-02-12 06:37:11 <lfm> cjdelisle: well I guess you are privy to secrets that the rest of the world is not
780 2011-02-12 06:38:02 <Mango-chan> is bitcoin legal or illegal or grey
781 2011-02-12 06:38:06 <cjdelisle> It's not a secret that governments use hardware to attack ciphers and hashes.
782 2011-02-12 06:38:22 <lfm> Mango-chan: what country?
783 2011-02-12 06:38:35 <cjdelisle> It's like an fpga on steroids
784 2011-02-12 06:38:42 <Mango-chan> US
785 2011-02-12 06:39:22 <lfm> probably legal viewed more as a commodity than as a currency
786 2011-02-12 06:40:25 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, bitcoin itself is legal
787 2011-02-12 06:40:35 <midnightmagic_> so for every new wave of interest, do people keep coming in and asking the same questions like that?
788 2011-02-12 06:40:40 <dissipate_> Mango-chan, but using bitcoin can definitely have tax consequences
789 2011-02-12 06:40:56 <lfm> midnightmagicpretty much ya
790 2011-02-12 06:41:18 <eV64> anyone think it's a good/bad deal to give someone in bitcoin-otc 240 btc for a used 5870 and a psu?
791 2011-02-12 06:41:28 <midnightmagic_> jesus, brutal. no wonder art loses his patience from time to time..
792 2011-02-12 06:42:56 <Mango-chan> eV64 sounds good
793 2011-02-12 06:43:03 <Mango-chan> what psu though
794 2011-02-12 06:43:09 <lfm> the supersecret awsome superduper blow us all away computing capacity of various secret agencies is a recurring theme as well
795 2011-02-12 06:43:22 <midnightmagic_> lfm: CSIS even measures their computing power in "acres". :)
796 2011-02-12 06:43:40 <lfm> haha
797 2011-02-12 06:43:56 <eV64> he was going to send me the model # tonight.  but he said it had the aux connectors.  do people usually pay half up front for those kind of deals?  I guess you have to just trust the person
798 2011-02-12 06:44:03 <lfm> acres of eniacs are not impressive
799 2011-02-12 06:44:11 <midnightmagic_> HAHAHAHA!
800 2011-02-12 06:44:21 <Mango-chan> eV64 use
801 2011-02-12 06:44:28 <Mango-chan> a middleman
802 2011-02-12 06:44:39 <Mango-chan> or something
803 2011-02-12 06:44:47 <doublec> eV64: consider using clearcoin
804 2011-02-12 06:44:50 <eV64> bitcoin escrow?
805 2011-02-12 06:45:04 <doublec> yes
806 2011-02-12 06:45:32 <midnightmagic_> cjdelisle: the network is specifically designed to have an expected, and measurable supply that people can depend on. the network itself decides to scale up (or down) the difficulty to ensure that, on average, blocks come every 600 seconds. it's 100% deliberate.
807 2011-02-12 06:45:42 <doublec> also there's at least one recurring scammer according to the forums
808 2011-02-12 06:46:03 <doublec> make sure its not them
809 2011-02-12 06:46:26 <presence> ;;bc,nextblock
810 2011-02-12 06:46:27 <gribble> Error: "bc,nextblock" is not a valid command.
811 2011-02-12 06:46:31 <midnightmagic_> bitcoin-otc has ratings..
812 2011-02-12 06:46:32 <eV64> doublec: okay.  thanks
813 2011-02-12 06:46:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 107610 | Current Difficulty: 25997.87992881 | Next Difficulty At Block: 108863 | Next Difficulty In: 1253 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33455.64404561
814 2011-02-12 06:46:32 <presence> ;;bc,stats
815 2011-02-12 06:47:06 <presence> ;;bc,calc 770000 33455.64404561
816 2011-02-12 06:47:07 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
817 2011-02-12 06:47:20 <midnightmagic_> ;;bc,calcd 770000 33455.64404561
818 2011-02-12 06:47:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 770000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 33455.64404561, is 2 days, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 11 seconds
819 2011-02-12 06:47:32 <cjdelisle> "on average, blocks come every 600 seconds" hmm, does this not mean that the cost of buying and selling will increase as there are more transactions?
820 2011-02-12 06:48:24 <lfm> cjdelisle: almost any numbers of transactions per block
821 2011-02-12 06:49:04 <cjdelisle> Ok so the 1MB size limit is not a real limiting factor.
822 2011-02-12 06:49:53 <lfm> biggest blcok ever was 200k. current limit at 50k is easy to change
823 2011-02-12 06:50:13 <cjdelisle> I see.
824 2011-02-12 06:50:46 <lfm> current limit is mainly just to discourage samming
825 2011-02-12 06:50:51 <lfm> spamming
826 2011-02-12 07:00:09 <Lachesis> ;;bc,calc 200000
827 2011-02-12 07:00:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 25997.87992881 , is 6 days, 11 hours, 5 minutes, and 0 seconds
828 2011-02-12 07:43:16 <cosurgi> grrr! The fan speed of first card is stuck at 66%, and I can't make it 100%, no matter what I'm doing: DISPLAY=:0 , DISPLAY=:0.0 I've ran out of ideas
829 2011-02-12 07:43:31 <cosurgi> ;;seen ArtForz
830 2011-02-12 07:43:31 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 13 hours, 46 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <ArtForz> err... the numbers are right there in the wiki page
831 2011-02-12 07:43:53 <cosurgi> ArtForz: do you know how to force a fan to be really 100% ?
832 2011-02-12 07:44:41 <cosurgi> ArtForz: three identical 5870 in this box. setting fanspeed for DISPLAY=:0.1 and DISPLAY=:0.2 works. But for DISPLAY=:0.0 does not.
833 2011-02-12 07:44:41 <eV64> where should i go to sell a cisco 3750g 24 port layer switch for bitcoins?
834 2011-02-12 07:44:50 <eV64> layer 3 switch*
835 2011-02-12 07:45:30 <Mango-chan> don't use linux
836 2011-02-12 07:49:18 <lfm> cosurgi: this doesnt work?  : aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 100"
837 2011-02-12 08:23:39 <cjdelisle> Thought you folks might find this interesting.
838 2011-02-12 08:23:41 <cjdelisle> http://www.pastebay.com/114488
839 2011-02-12 08:24:20 <lfm> what is it
840 2011-02-12 08:24:27 <cjdelisle> This is a POC proof of work algorithm which requires 4 kilobytes of memory per thread.
841 2011-02-12 08:24:48 <lfm> poc?
842 2011-02-12 08:25:12 <cjdelisle> Getting rid of the memory requirement entirely would cause the processor cost to increase by a lot.
843 2011-02-12 08:25:19 <cjdelisle> (proof of concept)
844 2011-02-12 08:25:26 <cjdelisle> (written tonight)
845 2011-02-12 08:26:35 <cjdelisle> It makes a guess, xors the guess against the content to "sign" and hashes 64 times, then it xors each of the hash outputs in reverse order and hashes another 64 times.
846 2011-02-12 08:26:58 <cjdelisle> (yes it is expensive to validate)
847 2011-02-12 08:27:13 <lfm> whats the advantage?
848 2011-02-12 08:27:40 <cjdelisle> You can't put 1 million key search circuits on a chip if each one requires 4k of memory.
849 2011-02-12 08:27:59 <cjdelisle> Also I don't think it could be done efficiently on a video card.
850 2011-02-12 08:28:51 <lfm> why is that an advantage? and are you sure?
851 2011-02-12 08:29:39 <cjdelisle> Well I would count it as an advantage for regular people to be able to get involved without being muscled out by the radon/fpga mafia.
852 2011-02-12 08:29:54 <cjdelisle> (or worse a real set of key search circuits)
853 2011-02-12 08:30:34 <lfm> I dont think you can put a million sha256 circuits on a chip either
854 2011-02-12 08:30:38 <cjdelisle> And I can say for sure that to remove all of the memory expense would increase the processor expense by a factorial of the current processor expense.
855 2011-02-12 08:31:06 <cjdelisle> err bad wording but you get the picture
856 2011-02-12 08:31:27 <lfm> nope, I dont know the problem you are trying to solve yet?
857 2011-02-12 08:32:13 <cjdelisle> The "someone will invent a super powerful computer which will make everything fail" problem.
858 2011-02-12 08:32:46 <cjdelisle> There simply is no efficient way to parallelize memory hard functions.
859 2011-02-12 08:32:49 <lfm> oh the hypothetical future problem that may never happen?
860 2011-02-12 08:33:09 <lfm> and some fpga have memory
861 2011-02-12 08:33:18 <cjdelisle> How much?
862 2011-02-12 08:33:26 <lfm> how much do you want?
863 2011-02-12 08:33:31 <lfm> megabytes?
864 2011-02-12 08:34:04 <cjdelisle> 4k per thread, you probably need a few thousand threads to be efficient on an fpga, yup.
865 2011-02-12 08:34:26 <lfm> or maybe just one if its pipelined well
866 2011-02-12 08:34:56 <cjdelisle> I understand fpga clock speed is not that fast.
867 2011-02-12 08:35:13 <cjdelisle> aka slower than a consumer proc.
868 2011-02-12 08:35:27 <lfm> and you understand it takes a few gates to do a sha256
869 2011-02-12 08:35:54 <lfm> more than a few really
870 2011-02-12 08:36:01 <cjdelisle> oh yea, another thing, the code I wrote uses salsa20 instead of sha256.
871 2011-02-12 08:36:16 <lfm> never heard of it
872 2011-02-12 08:36:46 <cjdelisle> I used it mainly because I could paste it into the code without much trouble.
873 2011-02-12 08:36:56 <cjdelisle> It's fast on a proc cna hard to make into hardware.
874 2011-02-12 08:37:09 <lfm> salsa20 is a stream cypher, not even meant to be a hashing routine
875 2011-02-12 08:38:07 <cjdelisle> http://cr.yp.to/salsa20.html
876 2011-02-12 08:38:25 <lfm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa20
877 2011-02-12 08:38:43 <cjdelisle> It is defined as a hash, it does not compress nor is it collision resistant but those are not requirements.
878 2011-02-12 08:39:22 <cjdelisle> The stream cypher is lols. He uses the hash function and XORs the output against the content to encrypt.
879 2011-02-12 08:39:30 <lfm> seems to me to be less secure than sha256
880 2011-02-12 08:39:55 <cjdelisle> I have to validate my implementation but salsa20 itself, no.
881 2011-02-12 08:40:48 <pavelo> furthermore, it is less used (and scrutinized) than sha, so there is a greater chance some weakness will be found
882 2011-02-12 08:40:54 <lfm> cjdelisle: so you want to make a new bitcoin based on this?
883 2011-02-12 08:41:28 <cjdelisle> Not really, I realize you couldn't change your algo if you wanted to. I just thought it was worth sharing.
884 2011-02-12 08:42:09 <lfm> ya maybe you could make a paper outa it but it prolly is of little interest to bitcoin in reality
885 2011-02-12 08:42:46 <cjdelisle> "less used (and scrutinized)" <-- this is a feature, the most widely used algorithms are also the ones which hardware crachers are the most widely available.
886 2011-02-12 08:43:15 <cjdelisle> Notice PGP uses CAST-5/ElGamel instead of everyone's favorite, AES
887 2011-02-12 08:43:45 <lfm> i think pgp came before aes
888 2011-02-12 08:44:19 <cjdelisle> Indeed it did but it has changed default ciphers and crypto algorithms a few times over the years.
889 2011-02-12 08:44:29 <pavelo> but at least you know the hash doesn't have a weakness that would enable someone to trivially reverse the function
890 2011-02-12 08:44:31 <lfm> and pgp allows subtitutions of various algorithms
891 2011-02-12 08:44:37 <pavelo> (without the special hardware)
892 2011-02-12 08:44:56 <cjdelisle> Well... It _was_ made by the nsa ;)
893 2011-02-12 08:45:17 <lfm> and I dont see what it inherently has that prevents hardware optimizations
894 2011-02-12 08:46:00 <cjdelisle> I don't actually know either but it lost a competition because it was judged to be harder to implement in hardware.
895 2011-02-12 08:46:11 <lfm> it may be slower than sha256 on hardware but it is also slower on software
896 2011-02-12 08:47:11 <cjdelisle> I don't know about salsa20 but I know for a fact that my little implementation is much harder to validate than the default, it wreally was a tradeoff i had to make.
897 2011-02-12 08:47:51 <cjdelisle> It runs the function 128 times for a validation.
898 2011-02-12 08:48:44 <Diablo-D3> [04:43:15] <cjdelisle> Notice PGP uses CAST-5/ElGamel instead of everyone's favorite, AES
899 2011-02-12 08:48:50 <Diablo-D3> why would it use AES?
900 2011-02-12 08:49:03 <cjdelisle> because it wants to encipher an email?
901 2011-02-12 08:49:39 <cjdelisle> (also it doesn't use RSA for it's default public key stuff)
902 2011-02-12 08:50:21 <lfm> iirc the original pgp used rsa
903 2011-02-12 08:50:26 <cjdelisle> err actually IIRC it uses RSA/Elgamel but it's not vanilla RSA.
904 2011-02-12 08:50:48 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: but AES is a symemetric key cipher
905 2011-02-12 08:51:43 <lfm> ya pgp uses a symetric cypher for bulk encryption for speed
906 2011-02-12 08:52:02 <cjdelisle> And RSA has a small maximum payload size
907 2011-02-12 08:52:11 <Diablo-D3> ElGamal isnt a symmetric key cipher
908 2011-02-12 08:52:55 <cjdelisle> What they do is encrypt the symmetric key using the asymmetric key.
909 2011-02-12 08:52:55 <lfm> cjdelisle: no maximum really you could use straight rsa for bulk encryption but it would be pretty slow
910 2011-02-12 08:52:56 <Diablo-D3> public key cryptography hinges on the use of asymmetric key ciphers
911 2011-02-12 08:53:42 <cjdelisle> "no maximum really" Ahh you're probably right, it's just bouncycastle that imposes a limit.
912 2011-02-12 08:54:42 <lfm> cjdelisle: ya some implementations impose a single block limit ie one cycle of the algorithm
913 2011-02-12 08:55:59 <lfm> Diablo-D3: every "message" uses a unique symetric key passed on ecrypted by the asymetric algorithm
914 2011-02-12 08:56:48 <lfm> Diablo-D3: done like this for speed, the aysmetric algorithms are 1000s of times slower
915 2011-02-12 08:57:13 <lfm> or at least tend to be for symilar security
916 2011-02-12 08:57:19 <Diablo-D3> except asymmetric means that the key used to encrypt the payload isnt the one thats used to decrypt it
917 2011-02-12 08:58:12 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ya, but they just encrypt the "session" symetric key with the asymetic algorithm
918 2011-02-12 08:58:40 <cjdelisle> Just checked, I think my mail client uses a DSA signing key with an Elgamel crypto key
919 2011-02-12 08:59:10 <lfm> cjdelisle: signed then, not actually encrypted
920 2011-02-12 08:59:46 <cjdelisle> I think elgamel does encryption.
921 2011-02-12 08:59:56 <Diablo-D3> believe what you want to believe
922 2011-02-12 09:00:00 <Diablo-D3> Im too tired to argue
923 2011-02-12 09:00:05 <cjdelisle> hehe
924 2011-02-12 09:00:22 <Diablo-D3> go read wikipedia
925 2011-02-12 09:00:30 <lfm> oh I see, it would use yet another key and algorithm for symetric operations
926 2011-02-12 09:00:38 <cjdelisle> read? more fun to write in it :D
927 2011-02-12 09:00:57 <lfm> Diablo-D3: seems you're too tired to read wiki too
928 2011-02-12 09:01:16 <cjdelisle> I think they decided to sign with DSA (which is supposed to be really good for signing) then encrypt with Elgamel because DSA is for signing only.
929 2011-02-12 09:01:45 <cjdelisle> (Out on a limb there, I just see 2 keys in one)
930 2011-02-12 09:01:48 <lfm> cjdelisle: ya, as opposed to rsa which does both
931 2011-02-12 09:02:39 <Diablo-D3> they dont use RSA for both though
932 2011-02-12 09:02:54 <Diablo-D3> they only use RSA for signatures
933 2011-02-12 09:02:59 <cjdelisle> IIRC there was something bad about signing and encrypting with the same key, it kind of sounds like it might make cryptoanalisys easier.
934 2011-02-12 09:03:22 <cjdelisle> hehe tired?
935 2011-02-12 09:03:40 <lfm> well rsa is still out there still as secure as factoring problem
936 2011-02-12 09:04:23 <lfm> direct from wiki
937 2011-02-12 09:04:44 <cjdelisle> ECC is so much nicer though, little keys and big strength.
938 2011-02-12 09:05:05 <cjdelisle> Just don't use the SAME RANDOM NUMBER each time lol.
939 2011-02-12 09:05:13 <lfm> lol
940 2011-02-12 09:05:16 <Diablo-D3> lolsony
941 2011-02-12 09:05:50 <cjdelisle> You familiar with curve25519?
942 2011-02-12 09:06:26 <Diablo-D3> no, but Im familiar with the number 4.
943 2011-02-12 09:06:31 <lfm> cjdelisle: I never reall understood ecc. I did figure out in detail and implement a version of rsa for myslef
944 2011-02-12 09:06:46 <cjdelisle> That is cool
945 2011-02-12 09:06:50 <ArtForz> actually the same thing happens with plain ole DSA
946 2011-02-12 09:07:00 <ArtForz> re-use K and you're toast