1 2011-02-21 00:00:03 <BlueMatt> anyway, I'm off, see you guys later
  2 2011-02-21 00:00:28 <[Tycho]> PFC matters for small UPSes :)
  3 2011-02-21 00:00:42 <ArtForz> small UPSes are crap anyways
  4 2011-02-21 00:00:46 <[Tycho]> They may not hold well PF-corrected PSUs.
  5 2011-02-21 00:00:57 <[Tycho]> Yes.
  6 2011-02-21 00:01:08 <[Tycho]> http://tr00.ru/wareh.jpg :)
  7 2011-02-21 00:01:35 <ArtForz> running a bestpower ferrups here
  8 2011-02-21 00:01:58 <ArtForz> ferroresonant UPSes dont give a rats ass if load appears capacitive
  9 2011-02-21 00:02:20 <ArtForz> thay actually like that better than inductive loads
 10 2011-02-21 00:02:25 <TheKid> I can't wait to get into college (going for EE)
 11 2011-02-21 00:02:32 <TheKid> so I know what the hell you guys are talking about
 12 2011-02-21 00:02:53 <bk128> ArtForz: what do you mean copper loss?
 13 2011-02-21 00:03:11 <ArtForz> resistive loss in wiring and transofmer/generator windings
 14 2011-02-21 00:03:36 <ArtForz> low PF = lots of current flowing around doing not much work
 15 2011-02-21 00:04:32 <bk128> so if everything in your house had a pf of .5 would you pay more for power?
 16 2011-02-21 00:04:44 <ArtForz> nope
 17 2011-02-21 00:05:08 <bk128> electric company would lose the power in transmission and in their transformers?
 18 2011-02-21 00:05:23 <ArtForz> no
 19 2011-02-21 00:05:28 <[Tycho]> Same power, less wire gauge.
 20 2011-02-21 00:05:33 <bk128> oh
 21 2011-02-21 00:05:35 <necrodearia> Re: witcoin.com - I am working on category creation now.  I want to establish ability for users to create categories in a way that is fair for them and for all other users.  Currently I am considering a basic/simple approach in which to create a category, a single cost of 1 witcoin.  At that cost, that indiciates after only 200 posts/replies, the user that created the category will establish profits thereafter.  This seems to encourage u
 22 2011-02-21 00:05:36 <necrodearia> sers to be the first to create as many categories as possible and reap profits.  Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas on a more fair implementation for category creation?
 23 2011-02-21 00:05:37 <ArtForz> they would have higher losses, but not much higher
 24 2011-02-21 00:06:02 <ArtForz> usually only industrial customers are billed extra for bad PF
 25 2011-02-21 00:06:53 <bk128> ugh, my lights are flickering.  computer is drawing 550 watts.  I'm in a small apartment
 26 2011-02-21 00:07:02 <ArtForz> one problem with old-style non-PF corrected PSUs is that they uglify the sinewave
 27 2011-02-21 00:07:56 <ArtForz> causing excessive hum in transformers and motors
 28 2011-02-21 00:08:17 <bk128> oh
 29 2011-02-21 00:08:47 <ArtForz> basically they "eat" into the top of the sinewave
 30 2011-02-21 00:08:56 <bk128> so vpp is lower?
 31 2011-02-21 00:08:59 <ArtForz> yep
 32 2011-02-21 00:09:08 <ArtForz> result looks somewhat like a clipped sine
 33 2011-02-21 00:09:26 <ArtForz> pretty obvious when you think about it
 34 2011-02-21 00:09:38 <bk128> but if you're losing power to resistance in wiring (power is going to heat I assume) don't you have to buy more power to get the same amount of work out of your devices?
 35 2011-02-21 00:09:48 <ArtForz> yes
 36 2011-02-21 00:09:56 <ArtForz> but wiring loss is pretty small
 37 2011-02-21 00:10:12 <bk128> ok
 38 2011-02-21 00:10:18 <ArtForz> at 0.5 pf you'd double your wiring loss, but twice not much is still not much
 39 2011-02-21 00:11:26 <ArtForz> input stage on old switchmode PSUs was usually just a rectifier and a big cap = no current flowing through 0 crossings, high current draw around peak voltage
 40 2011-02-21 00:12:03 <ArtForz> = enough of them chop off the peak
 41 2011-02-21 00:12:39 <bk128> so how does active pfc work?
 42 2011-02-21 00:12:57 <ArtForz> it's basically a boost converter
 43 2011-02-21 00:13:17 <bk128> ok
 44 2011-02-21 00:13:50 <ArtForz> with current limit following (rectified input voltage * output of control circuit) to control output voltage
 45 2011-02-21 00:14:10 <ArtForz> so their input current draw follows the voltage of the sinewave
 46 2011-02-21 00:15:06 <ArtForz> = smooth the 100kHz or so ripple from the switching and input current nicely follows input voltage
 47 2011-02-21 00:15:27 <ArtForz> = looks like a purely resistive load
 48 2011-02-21 00:15:57 <bk128> wow atx switchers are 100khz ?
 49 2011-02-21 00:16:02 <ArtForz> another benefit, you have a nice 380 - 400V DC rail to feed your main switchmode transformer with, independent of input voltage
 50 2011-02-21 00:16:08 <ArtForz> PFCs usually are
 51 2011-02-21 00:16:13 <ArtForz> often even higher
 52 2011-02-21 00:16:39 <bk128> do you know of any atx psu schematics I can look at?
 53 2011-02-21 00:16:44 <ArtForz> hmmm.... no
 54 2011-02-21 00:16:52 <bk128> ok.  I'll google it.
 55 2011-02-21 00:17:01 <ArtForz> oh, and nowadays theres like a dozen different topologies used in ATX PSUs
 56 2011-02-21 00:17:09 <bk128> ugh
 57 2011-02-21 00:17:21 <ArtForz> old 150-200W stuff used to be flyback or single transistor forward
 58 2011-02-21 00:18:06 <ArtForz> nowadays you mostly have forward converters for smaller units, push-pull for bigger, weird resonant topologies for high-efficiency stuff
 59 2011-02-21 00:18:08 <bk128> whenever I open a ps, there's always obscure IC's inside I can never find datasheets for
 60 2011-02-21 00:18:17 <ArtForz> yep, they like to do that
 61 2011-02-21 00:19:11 <bk128> guess I'd just have to poke at it for a while with my meter and scope
 62 2011-02-21 00:19:13 <ArtForz> resonant converters are usually LLC half bridge or phase-shift fullbridge
 63 2011-02-21 00:19:22 <ArtForz> pretty interesting stuff really
 64 2011-02-21 00:19:46 <bk128> what's llc?
 65 2011-02-21 00:19:57 <ArtForz> inductor-inductor-capacitor
 66 2011-02-21 00:20:02 <bk128> ok
 67 2011-02-21 00:20:13 <bk128> I'm trying to google all this stuff :)
 68 2011-02-21 00:20:36 <ArtForz> yeah
 69 2011-02-21 00:20:46 <ArtForz> theres interesting papers on this stuff
 70 2011-02-21 00:21:10 <ArtForz> especially on high-efficiency resonant converters
 71 2011-02-21 00:21:54 <ArtForz> with special transformer construction >95% efficiency is acheivable
 72 2011-02-21 00:21:58 <bk128> wow
 73 2011-02-21 00:22:06 <ArtForz> nobody does it for ATX PSUs, too expensive
 74 2011-02-21 00:22:12 <andrew12> >doesn't wants
 75 2011-02-21 00:22:40 <[Tycho]> There are "80 PLUS" standarts which include 90+ versions.
 76 2011-02-21 00:22:49 <ArtForz> general solution to transformer efficiency: throw more copper at it
 77 2011-02-21 00:23:18 <[Tycho]> But consumer PSUs usually are less effecient running idle.
 78 2011-02-21 00:23:28 <ArtForz> most PSUs are
 79 2011-02-21 00:23:35 <ArtForz> at idle core losses dominate
 80 2011-02-21 00:23:40 <ArtForz> but those are pretty fixed
 81 2011-02-21 00:24:10 <ArtForz> pretty much only depends on core volume, ferrite material used, max core flux and switching frequency
 82 2011-02-21 00:24:24 <[Tycho]> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS
 83 2011-02-21 00:24:28 <ArtForz> yes
 84 2011-02-21 00:24:56 <[Tycho]> 99% would be better.
 85 2011-02-21 00:26:11 <[Tycho]> Somehow chinese manufacturers managed to create a PSU that fails exactly after one year of use (when warranty is over). I had it too, fanless one. And many people said that their one failed on 13-th month too :)
 86 2011-02-21 00:26:39 <ArtForz> thats just getting lucky
 87 2011-02-21 00:26:40 <[Tycho]> It's very bad because nowadays it's hard to find a fanless PSU.
 88 2011-02-21 00:26:48 <bk128> ArtForz: also, wondering why everyone says xfx sucks.  I have two 5870's running at 850mhz clock at 72 C now
 89 2011-02-21 00:26:53 <bk128> should I expect them to die soon?
 90 2011-02-21 00:26:56 <ArtForz> nah
 91 2011-02-21 00:27:01 <ArtForz> not *all* their cards suck
 92 2011-02-21 00:27:33 <tcatm> I have 3x XFX 5870 running at 900 MHz for 4..5 months non-stop without problems.
 93 2011-02-21 00:27:37 <ArtForz> but they like pulling shady stuff like changing PCB or cooler design without changing model#
 94 2011-02-21 00:28:04 <ArtForz> which doesnt exactly win you lots of friends in the OC community
 95 2011-02-21 00:28:22 <bk128> okay.
 96 2011-02-21 00:28:51 <TheKid> yeah
 97 2011-02-21 00:29:01 <TheKid> and basically all non reference coolers suck
 98 2011-02-21 00:29:04 <ArtForz> actually I wonder why theres not more fanless PSUs
 99 2011-02-21 00:29:10 <TheKid> though the sapphire vapor-x are good
100 2011-02-21 00:29:46 <ArtForz> up to 300W or so it should be pretty easy to pull off
101 2011-02-21 00:31:09 <Kiba> so I heard the bitcoin black market recorded its first transaction
102 2011-02-21 00:31:22 <Diablo-D3> [08:08:40] -TRIdentica/#techrights- [themadhatter/@themadhatter] Anonymous, Atlas Shrugged, George Washington, Science Fiction, And Disruptive Technologies - http://bit.ly/eiIPGJ #Anonymous #ethics
103 2011-02-21 00:31:26 <Diablo-D3> which of these do NOT belong
104 2011-02-21 00:31:56 <Kiba> George Washington
105 2011-02-21 00:32:05 <Diablo-D3> are you fucking kidding me?
106 2011-02-21 00:32:09 <Diablo-D3> its Atlas Shrugged
107 2011-02-21 00:32:22 <Diablo-D3> Atlas Shrugged does not belong mentioned in a list of awesome things
108 2011-02-21 00:32:49 <Diablo-D3> OH LOOK AT ME, IM NO A WELL FLESHED OUT CHARACTER, IM JUST A CARDBOARD STAND-IN FOR AN IDEA!
109 2011-02-21 00:33:01 <Diablo-D3> fucking Russians, need to learn how to write
110 2011-02-21 00:34:29 <TheKid> heh
111 2011-02-21 00:34:49 <bk128> ArtForz: you never know if a customer is going to have it in a cabinet where ambient is 40+
112 2011-02-21 00:34:58 <Diablo-D3> bk128: yes you do.
113 2011-02-21 00:35:05 <Diablo-D3> thats most cabinets in cheap DCs.
114 2011-02-21 00:35:13 <ArtForz> ?
115 2011-02-21 00:35:22 <Diablo-D3> hell, thats most cabinets period
116 2011-02-21 00:35:27 <bk128> dc's?
117 2011-02-21 00:35:43 <ArtForz> should still be pretty damn easy
118 2011-02-21 00:35:58 <Diablo-D3> bk128: datacenter you idiot.
119 2011-02-21 00:36:08 <Diablo-D3> you know what a cabinet is and not a DC?
120 2011-02-21 00:36:12 <bk128> yeah, but there's airflow
121 2011-02-21 00:36:20 <bk128> yes I know what a datacenter and rack is
122 2011-02-21 00:36:25 <comboy> Diablo-D3: any chance for MIT license for your miner?
123 2011-02-21 00:36:30 <Diablo-D3> comboy: its gpl3.
124 2011-02-21 00:36:37 <comboy> I know
125 2011-02-21 00:36:38 <bk128> I was talking about consumers who put their computers in a closed cabinet under a office desk
126 2011-02-21 00:36:42 <bk128> with no airflow
127 2011-02-21 00:37:08 <ArtForz> shouldnt matter
128 2011-02-21 00:37:25 <ArtForz> properly designed the rest of the box will fry before the PSU :P
129 2011-02-21 00:37:34 <bk128> hmm okay
130 2011-02-21 00:38:41 <bk128> lol with my cards slush's pool broke 70ghash
131 2011-02-21 00:38:56 <bk128> but now that I have about .9 ghash I might not need to pool
132 2011-02-21 00:39:08 <TheKid> heh
133 2011-02-21 00:39:12 <TheKid> yeah I might try solo mining
134 2011-02-21 00:39:24 <TheKid> though, ArtForz, can 5970s solo mine effectively?
135 2011-02-21 00:39:36 <ArtForz> why wouldnt they?
136 2011-02-21 00:39:39 <TheKid> didn't you say that there was something weird about the onboard crossfire?
137 2011-02-21 00:39:47 <bk128> ;;bc,stats
138 2011-02-21 00:39:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109400 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1479 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 20 hours, 34 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47786.43879969
139 2011-02-21 00:39:48 <TheKid> was worrying about that
140 2011-02-21 00:39:52 <bk128> you can disable it I think
141 2011-02-21 00:40:05 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calc 650000
142 2011-02-21 00:40:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 650000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 13 seconds
143 2011-02-21 00:40:27 <ArtForz> variance might be a bit high with a single 5970 solo
144 2011-02-21 00:40:47 <TheKid> ArtForz: in windows?
145 2011-02-21 00:40:49 <ArtForz> well, if pooled mining works, so does solo mining
146 2011-02-21 00:41:27 <TheKid> and yeah I'll most likely be mining on slush's pool or bitpenny
147 2011-02-21 00:41:43 <TheKid> okay
148 2011-02-21 00:42:03 <ArtForz> just with a lot more variance in payouts
149 2011-02-21 00:42:24 <TheKid> yeah I have poor luck anyway :P
150 2011-02-21 00:42:30 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, one of my fanless PSUs is 350 W and dead one was 500 W
151 2011-02-21 00:42:32 <ArtForz> that somehow sounds a bit high
152 2011-02-21 00:42:36 <Diablo-D3> comboy: its gpl because of idiots who think its okay to repackage other's shit for profit
153 2011-02-21 00:42:39 <Diablo-D3> comboy: theres already bitcoin scammers, Im not going to help them
154 2011-02-21 00:42:41 <Diablo-D3> [08:39:24] <TheKid> though, ArtForz, can 5970s solo mine effectively?
155 2011-02-21 00:42:46 <Diablo-D3> TheKid: my 4850 mines effectively
156 2011-02-21 00:43:29 <comboy> Diablo-D3: ok
157 2011-02-21 00:43:54 <Diablo-D3> comboy: why do you ask, btw?
158 2011-02-21 00:43:54 <[Tycho]> Doesn't works w/o luck.
159 2011-02-21 00:44:02 <comboy> (FYI scammers dont care about license ;)
160 2011-02-21 00:44:21 <comboy> Diablo-D3: I just like MIT, gpl is like tl;dr for me
161 2011-02-21 00:44:23 <Diablo-D3> sure, scammers dont, but it means I can destroy them
162 2011-02-21 00:44:29 <[Tycho]> Slush's pool still shows that my miners never found a block :)
163 2011-02-21 00:44:47 <Diablo-D3> comboy: gpl is basically mit/bsd with the added clause that it must always remain open source under the gpl
164 2011-02-21 00:45:16 <[Tycho]> I wonder why people say that GPL software is "free"...
165 2011-02-21 00:45:27 <Diablo-D3> comboy: gpl3 adds strong anti-patent language, asl2 adds similar language to bsd-alikes.
166 2011-02-21 00:45:40 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: GPL omits exactly one right: the right to make it closed.
167 2011-02-21 00:45:56 <Diablo-D3> so, its more free than bsd because it can never become un-free.
168 2011-02-21 00:46:12 <Diablo-D3> at least, this is RMS's argument
169 2011-02-21 00:46:17 <[Tycho]> No way.
170 2011-02-21 00:46:19 <comboy> not true
171 2011-02-21 00:46:26 <comboy> it's free when you can do whatever you want with it
172 2011-02-21 00:46:41 <Diablo-D3> yes, but making it non-free is counterproductive to the goal of the project
173 2011-02-21 00:46:42 <comboy> but I understand your concerns, and too lazy to have this discussion again
174 2011-02-21 00:46:54 <[Tycho]> When code is free, anyone can do anything. But you can't use GPL code in serious projects because it's denied.
175 2011-02-21 00:47:06 <andrew12> and suddenly the channel dies
176 2011-02-21 00:47:07 <andrew12> or i'm scrolled up
177 2011-02-21 00:47:09 <Diablo-D3> it'd be like the US voting itself out of Democracy forever.
178 2011-02-21 00:47:26 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: erm, except all the serious projects out there are GPL from the ground up
179 2011-02-21 00:47:30 <Diablo-D3> or GPL compatible
180 2011-02-21 00:47:35 <comboy> democracy sucks btw
181 2011-02-21 00:47:38 <Diablo-D3> if its closed source, its not serious and never will be
182 2011-02-21 00:48:10 <[Tycho]> :)))
183 2011-02-21 00:48:20 <[Tycho]> You are talking nonsence.
184 2011-02-21 00:48:23 <Netsniper> open sores
185 2011-02-21 00:50:14 <xelister> Diablo-D3: actually US is already loosing democracy ;)
186 2011-02-21 00:50:29 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: no, anyone who claims closed source can be relatively bug free, feature rich, skinny, and secure is a liar.
187 2011-02-21 00:50:44 <[Tycho]> If you take any random home or office PC (excluding linux-infected), there is rarely any open-source software. May be Quake or Miranda IM.
188 2011-02-21 00:51:32 <Diablo-D3> one a project gets bigger than what 3 people can manage, closed source techniques screw it over
189 2011-02-21 00:51:37 <[Tycho]> Open source software is free of bugs ? Oh, please, bug trackers are full of them.
190 2011-02-21 00:51:40 <Diablo-D3> every. single. time.
191 2011-02-21 00:52:01 <Diablo-D3> for every bug your average linux base install has, windows has a dozen.
192 2011-02-21 00:52:05 <Diablo-D3> so yeah, thats pretty bug free.
193 2011-02-21 00:52:13 <Diablo-D3> foss also has a much faster bug turn around.
194 2011-02-21 00:52:20 <Diablo-D3> even faster if its a security issue
195 2011-02-21 00:52:22 <[Tycho]> There is a difference - you can work on a windows pc.
196 2011-02-21 00:52:28 <xelister> well, linux sound suck donkey balls
197 2011-02-21 00:52:30 <Diablo-D3> actually, no, I cant
198 2011-02-21 00:52:34 <Diablo-D3> I find windows extremely difficult to work with
199 2011-02-21 00:52:49 <[Tycho]> And linux is impossible to work with.
200 2011-02-21 00:52:52 <Diablo-D3> I never understood why they centered around a mouse for an inherently text-based interface.
201 2011-02-21 00:53:11 <Diablo-D3> it makes everything take 10 times longer
202 2011-02-21 00:53:14 <xelister> [Tycho]: you can use this argument to win. you have to re-paste it, Diablo-D3 pretends he ignores me ;)   linux sounds system is crap
203 2011-02-21 00:53:18 <Diablo-D3> and not having a working shell in the box isnt really helpful either
204 2011-02-21 00:53:25 <comboy> *sad
205 2011-02-21 00:53:29 <[Tycho]> Using mouse makes everything much faster.
206 2011-02-21 00:53:38 <Diablo-D3> how so?
207 2011-02-21 00:53:47 <doublec> polictics, religion and license debates. three things to avoid discussing...
208 2011-02-21 00:53:49 <[Tycho]> You can click things :)
209 2011-02-21 00:53:51 <xelister> [Tycho]: using mouse is slow and clunky
210 2011-02-21 00:54:06 <Diablo-D3> do rename "s/foo/bar/" halfthefiles* with a mouse.
211 2011-02-21 00:54:12 <Necr0s> using crystal meth makes everything much faster
212 2011-02-21 00:54:23 <Blitzboom> its unbelievable we still use either mouse or keyboard im 2011 anyway
213 2011-02-21 00:54:43 <Necr0s> ^
214 2011-02-21 00:54:46 <xelister> Blitzboom: what you propose
215 2011-02-21 00:55:08 <Necr0s> At least give us 2 mice for something different.
216 2011-02-21 00:55:41 <[Tycho]> Select 10 of 300 mp3 files with keyboard :)
217 2011-02-21 00:56:09 <Necr0s> 2 cursors.  one for each hand.
218 2011-02-21 00:56:10 <validus> screw that. gimme keyboard
219 2011-02-21 00:56:35 <comboy> xelister: http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_headset_that_reads_your_brainwaves.html
220 2011-02-21 00:56:37 <xelister> comboy: "BOOBIES"
221 2011-02-21 00:56:41 <bk128> someone is seriously arguing mice are better?
222 2011-02-21 00:56:41 <xelister> yes we really need that
223 2011-02-21 00:56:43 <validus> sounds trollicious
224 2011-02-21 00:56:44 <Diablo-D3> bk128: windows idiots
225 2011-02-21 00:56:45 <Diablo-D3> the only thing mice are good for is actual GUIs and games.
226 2011-02-21 00:56:45 <validus> im going to watch a movie lol
227 2011-02-21 00:56:46 <xelister> mouse is usually the bad choice
228 2011-02-21 00:56:47 <Necr0s> And why don't we have multi-user GUIs yet?
229 2011-02-21 00:56:48 <comboy> xelister: nothing can beat them
230 2011-02-21 00:56:48 <Necr0s> Where 2 people can control a single desktop, each wityh their own set of imput devices.
231 2011-02-21 00:56:50 <Diablo-D3> Necr0s: erm, we can
232 2011-02-21 00:56:50 <xelister> comboy: well, keyboards are game for fps games
233 2011-02-21 00:56:51 <xelister> Necr0s: possible to do it
234 2011-02-21 00:56:56 <validus> um there is
235 2011-02-21 00:56:57 <Necr0s> Each can take control of any window, etc.
236 2011-02-21 00:56:59 <validus> its called google.com
237 2011-02-21 00:57:01 <Diablo-D3> hell, Im already doing that to remote control my laptop
238 2011-02-21 00:57:02 <validus> id bother searching
239 2011-02-21 00:57:04 <Necr0s> How do?
240 2011-02-21 00:57:05 <tcatm> Necr0s: Xorg can do that.
241 2011-02-21 00:57:14 <validus> theres a crap ton of remote desktop for windows to
242 2011-02-21 00:57:17 <comboy> xelister: dvorak, gentoo, awesome-wm, I'm too happy to argue :)
243 2011-02-21 00:57:19 <tcatm> xinput create-master and add input devices
244 2011-02-21 00:57:25 <Necr0s> hmm.
245 2011-02-21 00:57:38 <Necr0s> neat.
246 2011-02-21 00:57:38 <xelister> comboy: hm?  you cant play FPS  point and shoot  game without a mouse
247 2011-02-21 00:57:45 <xelister> effectivly
248 2011-02-21 00:57:50 <xelister> well you could, but then you play it
249 2011-02-21 00:57:55 <validus> ncurses ftw
250 2011-02-21 00:57:55 <xelister> like all this PlayStation fags
251 2011-02-21 00:58:01 <comboy> xelister: you must have mixed some discussion thread
252 2011-02-21 00:58:09 <xelister> keyboards-vs-mouse
253 2011-02-21 00:58:13 <xelister> mouse wins in FPS games
254 2011-02-21 00:58:30 <comboy> yeah, I was not in that discussion when you said something about fps to me
255 2011-02-21 00:58:33 <Necr0s> Wach has its place.
256 2011-02-21 00:58:36 <Necr0s> of course.
257 2011-02-21 00:58:42 <Necr0s> We all need both.
258 2011-02-21 00:58:49 <Necr0s> usually
259 2011-02-21 00:58:49 <validus> need both what
260 2011-02-21 00:59:03 <Necr0s> both of the ubiquitous imput devices.
261 2011-02-21 00:59:07 <validus> nope
262 2011-02-21 00:59:14 <validus> i can run a pc effective and efficient with no mouse
263 2011-02-21 00:59:18 <validus> espically linux
264 2011-02-21 00:59:20 <Necr0s> You can, but do you?
265 2011-02-21 00:59:25 <validus> in linux yes
266 2011-02-21 00:59:27 <validus> windows 1/2
267 2011-02-21 00:59:31 <Necr0s> But you have a mouse, no?
268 2011-02-21 00:59:41 <validus> this isnt a qeustion fo ownership
269 2011-02-21 00:59:47 <validus> its the question if i really need it and the answer is no
270 2011-02-21 00:59:56 <Necr0s> Best to have both on hand IMO.
271 2011-02-21 01:00:14 <validus> you want 1 for each hand. how will you type? onscreen keyboards?
272 2011-02-21 01:00:18 <validus> lol
273 2011-02-21 01:00:24 <Necr0s> No reason you can't have 2 mine and a kb.
274 2011-02-21 01:00:26 <Necr0s> mice
275 2011-02-21 01:00:29 <comboy> I use joystick only
276 2011-02-21 01:00:50 <Necr0s> With 2 mouse cursors you can do all that stretch, rotate kind of stuff you see on touchscreen devices.
277 2011-02-21 01:01:01 <Necr0s> and who knows what else.  It's not been really explored.
278 2011-02-21 01:01:12 <validus> that would be hardcore annoying. counter productive and expensive
279 2011-02-21 01:01:19 <Necr0s> But I'm sure some game could find a neat way to use it.
280 2011-02-21 01:01:29 <validus> ya its called wasd
281 2011-02-21 01:01:49 <Necr0s> been there, done that.
282 2011-02-21 01:01:58 <Necr0s> I'm talking about new things.
283 2011-02-21 01:02:11 <validus> type with your tongue. or learn how to tell what keys are pressed by sound
284 2011-02-21 01:02:18 <Necr0s> Things yet unimagined.
285 2011-02-21 01:02:55 <tcatm> most humans can't move two mice at the same time, let alone in different directions at different speeds (needed for emulating multitouch rotation)
286 2011-02-21 01:03:24 <Necr0s> Yeah, that would feel a little weird.
287 2011-02-21 01:03:25 <validus> itd fail hard
288 2011-02-21 01:03:53 <validus> design a driver for xbox 360 controllers to use the keyboard attachment on pc . there you go
289 2011-02-21 01:03:55 <validus> a new idea
290 2011-02-21 01:03:57 <comboy> hmm ArtForz, you around? the kernel in Diablo's miner is yours right? if so, is there any separate license for it?
291 2011-02-21 01:04:03 <Necr0s> But in any case, I think that the paradigm that computer input should consist of 1 keyboard and 1 mouse ought to be challenged a bit.
292 2011-02-21 01:04:24 <Necr0s> Look what Nintendo did with their Wii device.
293 2011-02-21 01:04:38 <validus> you can use a wii mote as a mouse
294 2011-02-21 01:04:41 <validus> open source drivers iirc
295 2011-02-21 01:05:00 <Necr0s> And these multitouch smartphones are doing cool new things with input.
296 2011-02-21 01:05:07 <validus> theres multitouch pcs to
297 2011-02-21 01:05:10 <validus> my ex just got one
298 2011-02-21 01:05:18 <Necr0s> with accelerometers and such as well.
299 2011-02-21 01:05:32 <Necr0s> Yeah, wiimote is bluetooth I believe.
300 2011-02-21 01:05:34 <validus> it sounds like your really young or living very seclued
301 2011-02-21 01:05:35 <tcatm> multitouch on smartphones is the worst thing ever.
302 2011-02-21 01:05:39 <validus> secluded*
303 2011-02-21 01:05:43 <Necr0s> Yay standards.
304 2011-02-21 01:05:52 <Necr0s> moi?
305 2011-02-21 01:05:56 <Necr0s> heh
306 2011-02-21 01:05:56 <validus> ya
307 2011-02-21 01:06:08 <validus> cuz everything you've mentioned pretty much exists
308 2011-02-21 01:06:16 <validus> im sure you could probably trick your os into using 2 mouses if you really wanted
309 2011-02-21 01:06:29 <validus> never tried it cuz . well it sounds retarded
310 2011-02-21 01:06:33 <tcatm> Just pressing "virtual" buttons on a touchscreen requires holding the phone with both hands *and* looking at the screen.
311 2011-02-21 01:06:34 <andrew12> necrodearia: what was the link for the block duration api?
312 2011-02-21 01:06:50 <validus> tcatm: my phone dials #'s. thats it :P
313 2011-02-21 01:07:06 <validus> no touch. no email. no web. no keyboard. nodda
314 2011-02-21 01:07:17 <tcatm> no keyboard? :)
315 2011-02-21 01:07:38 <Necr0s> I don't hold mine with both hands to type.
316 2011-02-21 01:07:40 <validus> keypad for #'s. screw text msgs. ppl can txt msg me here. actually my brothers already do. they know to find me on irc
317 2011-02-21 01:07:45 <[Tycho]> There are drivers to use two mouses with two pointers in windows. First one appeared for playing two-player Arcanoid game :)
318 2011-02-21 01:08:16 <andrew12> [Tycho]: how old is that game? i've seen it in a game called ricochet a while ago
319 2011-02-21 01:08:38 <Necr0s> arkanoid is pretty old.
320 2011-02-21 01:08:40 <validus> lots of games recognize 2 controllers. it should do 2 mice the same in theory
321 2011-02-21 01:08:49 <Necr0s> I played it on an Apple IIGS if that says anything.
322 2011-02-21 01:08:51 <validus> look at shank. you cant play that game without a controller
323 2011-02-21 01:09:21 <validus> get a microphone and some new software and just tell your pc what to do
324 2011-02-21 01:09:31 <[Tycho]> If you just plug two mouses in windows, they both will control same pointer.
325 2011-02-21 01:09:42 <validus> im sure thered be a way to modify it
326 2011-02-21 01:09:58 <[Tycho]> There is.
327 2011-02-21 01:10:40 <validus> if someone tried to sell me a pc with 2 mice hooked up id be looking for the Made In (insert some weird name here) tag
328 2011-02-21 01:10:56 <validus> id use em as nunchukus
329 2011-02-21 01:10:58 <Diablo-D3> china
330 2011-02-21 01:10:58 <validus> lol
331 2011-02-21 01:11:03 <Diablo-D3> its ALL made in china
332 2011-02-21 01:11:17 <validus> i broke one of my snes controllers using it as a nunchuku :/
333 2011-02-21 01:21:12 <comboy> Diablo-D3: since you around, do you know about this kernel license? is it separate than the rest of your miner?
334 2011-02-21 01:22:27 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
335 2011-02-21 01:22:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109408 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1471 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 7 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47963.61337874
336 2011-02-21 01:22:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 110000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 26 minutes, and 22 seconds
337 2011-02-21 01:22:40 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,calc 110000
338 2011-02-21 01:24:20 <Diablo-D3> comboy: its GPL3
339 2011-02-21 01:24:25 <xelister> LobsterMan: the diff may change during this time though
340 2011-02-21 01:24:30 <comboy> Diablo-D3: thx
341 2011-02-21 01:24:37 <Diablo-D3> comboy: m0 also uses an almost identical kernel
342 2011-02-21 01:24:38 <LobsterMan> i know
343 2011-02-21 01:24:41 <Diablo-D3> not sure what he licensed it under
344 2011-02-21 01:24:51 <LobsterMan> the last estimated diff was 49000 when i last checked a few days ago
345 2011-02-21 01:25:09 <comboy> Diablo-D3: he has pretty vague "public domain" phrase and that's all in his LICENSE file
346 2011-02-21 01:26:04 <Diablo-D3> comboy: for the kernel or the whole miner?
347 2011-02-21 01:26:36 <comboy> Diablo-D3: whole miner I guess since it's in repo with it
348 2011-02-21 01:27:01 <necrodearia> andrew12, http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/movingaverages.php?l=3 ---- l == last  and defaults to 10000 if unspecified or less than 1
349 2011-02-21 01:28:10 <andrew12> necrodearia: thanks
350 2011-02-21 01:28:49 <Diablo-D3> comboy: eww.
351 2011-02-21 01:30:56 <bk128> Diablo-D3: running those 2 5870's on a debian box with -f 1 and -w 64 (also tried -w 128)  and getting about 600 mhash/sec.  is it less because I'm in a pool and it has to wait a bit for blocks?
352 2011-02-21 01:31:37 <Diablo-D3> bk128: if you're benchmarking, do it on a local bitcoind
353 2011-02-21 01:31:50 <bk128> Diablo-D3: ok thanks.
354 2011-02-21 01:31:51 <Diablo-D3> and 2 5870s should be about, eh, 630-640
355 2011-02-21 01:32:01 <Diablo-D3> and leave it run for about 15 minutes and use the second number
356 2011-02-21 01:32:16 <Diablo-D3> and -w 64 is faster
357 2011-02-21 01:32:26 <Diablo-D3> just make sure you're on 10.10 or 10.11, and sdk 2.1
358 2011-02-21 01:32:31 <bk128> what are the two numbers again?
359 2011-02-21 01:32:37 <Diablo-D3> 15 second avg, forever avg
360 2011-02-21 01:32:42 <bk128> I just used the debian fglrx and sdk2.1
361 2011-02-21 01:32:45 <bk128> ok
362 2011-02-21 01:33:07 <Diablo-D3> not sure what debian sid has atm
363 2011-02-21 01:33:21 <Diablo-D3> Ive been pulling stuff out of deb exp to test new versions
364 2011-02-21 01:33:25 <Diablo-D3> it has 11.2 now
365 2011-02-21 01:34:06 <bk128> ok.  seems to be working fine
366 2011-02-21 01:35:29 <Diablo-D3> what are you getting for speed?
367 2011-02-21 01:36:20 <bk128> yeah it's a dedicated box.
368 2011-02-21 01:53:58 <bk128> what's the clock range for the 5870?  tried aticonfig -od-setclocks=900,800 --adapter=all but it says values aren't valid
369 2011-02-21 01:55:09 <TheKid> mem clock needs to be higher
370 2011-02-21 01:55:13 <TheKid> use 1200
371 2011-02-21 01:55:15 <TheKid> that's stock
372 2011-02-21 01:55:17 <bk128> okay
373 2011-02-21 01:55:50 <comboy> 900 is better for mem
374 2011-02-21 01:56:22 <bk128> yeah, but you have to hack it to lower the mem clock
375 2011-02-21 01:56:35 <bk128> did you change the bios?
376 2011-02-21 01:56:38 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 1000000
377 2011-02-21 01:56:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1 day, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 54 seconds
378 2011-02-21 01:56:53 <[Tycho]> 930 for gpu
379 2011-02-21 01:57:00 <[Tycho]> Usually it runs fine at 950
380 2011-02-21 01:57:05 <comboy> bk128: hmm on my 5870 I set memclock 900 without hacking..
381 2011-02-21 01:57:38 <comboy> you can see range of possible clocks with --odgc
382 2011-02-21 01:58:00 <xelister> fucking high difficulty
383 2011-02-21 01:58:16 <bk128> won't even let me set gpu clock above 900
384 2011-02-21 01:58:25 <comboy> xelister: it's gonna look so low in a month
385 2011-02-21 01:58:33 <echelon> wooh, won back my losses on btcsportsbet ^_^
386 2011-02-21 01:58:41 <xelister> fucking high difficulty increasing speed
387 2011-02-21 01:59:08 <comboy> true, true
388 2011-02-21 01:59:58 <citiz3n> you run your 5870 GPU core at 950?
389 2011-02-21 02:00:18 <citiz3n> are you overvolting it?
390 2011-02-21 02:00:49 <[Tycho]> Overvolting is not needed it such low frequency.
391 2011-02-21 02:00:53 <[Tycho]> *at
392 2011-02-21 02:01:08 <citiz3n> that's nice to know
393 2011-02-21 02:01:21 <Diablo-D3> [09:53:58] <bk128> what's the clock range for the 5870?  tried aticonfig -od-setclocks=900,800 --adapter=all but it says values aren't valid
394 2011-02-21 02:01:22 <citiz3n> you must be getting like 355 mhash/s
395 2011-02-21 02:01:31 <Diablo-D3> bk128: aticonfig --odgc
396 2011-02-21 02:01:31 <[Tycho]> Actually overvolting is not needed for 5870 at all.
397 2011-02-21 02:01:34 <Diablo-D3> bk128: lists shit.
398 2011-02-21 02:01:47 <citiz3n> linux or windows?
399 2011-02-21 02:01:58 <bk128> Diablo-D3: is it easy to hack it?
400 2011-02-21 02:02:09 <Diablo-D3> bk128: hack what?
401 2011-02-21 02:02:09 <[Tycho]> I'm getting ~344 at 930 MHz. Windows, of course.
402 2011-02-21 02:02:16 <bk128> the gpu bios
403 2011-02-21 02:02:20 <citiz3n> hmm
404 2011-02-21 02:02:23 <Diablo-D3> why would you need to?
405 2011-02-21 02:02:26 <citiz3n> i get 344 at 900mhz
406 2011-02-21 02:02:36 <bk128> get about 900mhz clock and slow down the memory clock
407 2011-02-21 02:02:43 <[Tycho]> 3 miners running at a time.
408 2011-02-21 02:02:52 <bk128> above* not about
409 2011-02-21 02:02:52 <citiz3n> what program are you using to tune them?
410 2011-02-21 02:02:54 <Diablo-D3> bk128: you cant drive the memory at tha tlow of a clock at that voltage
411 2011-02-21 02:02:56 <bk128> aticonfig
412 2011-02-21 02:03:02 <bk128> art says he does
413 2011-02-21 02:03:05 <Diablo-D3> bk128: and you cant undervolt the memory effectively with the gpu at full voltage
414 2011-02-21 02:03:13 <Diablo-D3> AAAAND
415 2011-02-21 02:03:18 <bk128> not undervolt, underclock
416 2011-02-21 02:03:18 <Diablo-D3> the memory doesnt use much power
417 2011-02-21 02:03:35 <Diablo-D3> [10:02:54] <Diablo-D3> bk128: you cant drive the memory at that low of a clock at that voltage
418 2011-02-21 02:03:35 <[Tycho]> Memory at 1000.
419 2011-02-21 02:03:37 <Blitzboom> 5870 here too. overclocked to 925
420 2011-02-21 02:03:40 <Diablo-D3> he clocks the memory as low as it goes
421 2011-02-21 02:03:42 <Diablo-D3> thats about it
422 2011-02-21 02:03:44 <Blitzboom> >330 mhash/s
423 2011-02-21 02:03:49 <Diablo-D3> I dont think hes undervolting the memory
424 2011-02-21 02:04:02 <bk128> my xfx card says memory range is 1200-1300 and gpu max is 600-900
425 2011-02-21 02:04:18 <bk128> i'm not talking about changing voltage at all
426 2011-02-21 02:04:24 <Blitzboom> PCs completely lagfree though
427 2011-02-21 02:04:29 <xelister> anyone here uses freenet?
428 2011-02-21 02:04:30 <Blitzboom> which is awesome
429 2011-02-21 02:04:38 <xelister> *anyone else
430 2011-02-21 02:04:47 <[Tycho]> ATI's utulity allows 900-1400 for 5870 memory and 600-1200 for GPU
431 2011-02-21 02:05:03 <bk128> [Tycho]: not on this card.
432 2011-02-21 02:05:12 <validus> theres 3rd party apps to
433 2011-02-21 02:05:20 <citiz3n> that's not the catalyst control center
434 2011-02-21 02:05:21 <[Tycho]> 1000-1500 memory and 550-1000 GPU for 5970
435 2011-02-21 02:05:21 <validus> i did theirs cuz it said "auto"
436 2011-02-21 02:05:25 <citiz3n> must be a different utility, tycho
437 2011-02-21 02:05:33 <Blitzboom> anyone overvolting?
438 2011-02-21 02:05:34 <validus> and i read results that it actually workerd rather suprising well
439 2011-02-21 02:05:38 <[Tycho]> Yes, i'm talking about reference.
440 2011-02-21 02:05:39 <bk128> it's aticonfig with fglrx on debian
441 2011-02-21 02:06:09 <[Tycho]> Overvolting is a key to overheating and power/VRM problems.
442 2011-02-21 02:06:17 <citiz3n> what's the name of the tool so i can look it up?
443 2011-02-21 02:06:29 <citiz3n> ATItool?
444 2011-02-21 02:06:29 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: factory overclocked shit changes those values
445 2011-02-21 02:06:35 <Diablo-D3> aticonfig just reads it out of the bios
446 2011-02-21 02:06:55 <validus> i dont know if its windows or linux etc, and i think it was extremeoverlcockers.net or .com or something like that
447 2011-02-21 02:06:59 <validus> ill see if i can find it
448 2011-02-21 02:07:03 <Diablo-D3> its for windows
449 2011-02-21 02:07:13 <Diablo-D3> you cant really screw with voltages under linux
450 2011-02-21 02:07:13 <validus> most of their crapt is
451 2011-02-21 02:07:17 <Diablo-D3> and thats really useless anyhow
452 2011-02-21 02:07:19 <validus> god forbid they make super great drivers for linux
453 2011-02-21 02:07:22 <Diablo-D3> unless you're art, dont fuck with it
454 2011-02-21 02:07:45 <validus> actually i take that back. some work some dont. it depends but god does it suck when they dont
455 2011-02-21 02:07:59 <validus> thats seriously altering my next gpu decisions
456 2011-02-21 02:08:13 <Diablo-D3> validus: nvidia wont be around much longer
457 2011-02-21 02:08:16 <Diablo-D3> its not like you HAVE a choice
458 2011-02-21 02:08:44 <validus> when ppl with an intel gma are getting better driver support on their puny assnetbooks than my pc was. theres problems
459 2011-02-21 02:08:51 <validus> i dont see nvidia going anywhere i dont see ati going anywhere
460 2011-02-21 02:09:05 <validus> ive just had some extreme problems with ati's drivers on my linux box for hardware accelleration
461 2011-02-21 02:09:26 <Blitzboom> if bitcoin turns out to be successful, nvidia will be fucked
462 2011-02-21 02:09:28 <validus> but im not set in stone on what im getting yet either. so i may or may not
463 2011-02-21 02:09:35 <mmarker> Ok, so I think slapping in ARM NEON intrinsics into the current 4way SSE2 code is cheap.
464 2011-02-21 02:09:41 <mmarker> But it works.
465 2011-02-21 02:09:47 <validus> Blitzboom: you do realize that there is only a certain amount of bitcoins
466 2011-02-21 02:09:48 <mmarker> I think
467 2011-02-21 02:09:53 <Blitzboom> i do, validus
468 2011-02-21 02:09:58 <validus> im curious what happens next. but its been said every year
469 2011-02-21 02:10:05 <Blitzboom> but if it turns out to be successful, thats going to happen soon
470 2011-02-21 02:10:06 <xelister> Blitzboom: still Ati's drivers suck more in practice
471 2011-02-21 02:10:09 <validus> oh amd is gonna die out. intel is gonna die out. same argument with video
472 2011-02-21 02:10:38 <Diablo-D3> [10:08:44] <validus> when ppl with an intel gma are getting better driver support on their puny assnetbooks than my pc was. theres problems
473 2011-02-21 02:10:40 <Diablo-D3> no they arent
474 2011-02-21 02:10:40 <validus> if you do real world animation, rendering, CAD, its worth a $1000 intel
475 2011-02-21 02:10:44 <Diablo-D3> they really really arent
476 2011-02-21 02:11:01 <validus> it trumps amd's double fold in benchmarks. but like 5% of ppl are doing that with em
477 2011-02-21 02:11:06 <validus> heh
478 2011-02-21 02:11:15 <validus> thats cpu btw, not gpu
479 2011-02-21 02:11:17 <Diablo-D3> intel windows drivers are almighty shit
480 2011-02-21 02:11:24 <validus> Diablo-D3: their drivers worked great same linux distro.
481 2011-02-21 02:11:33 <Diablo-D3> intel doesnt have linux drivers
482 2011-02-21 02:11:38 <Diablo-D3> linux does.
483 2011-02-21 02:11:45 <validus> they had intel gma on their linux box using hw accelleration
484 2011-02-21 02:11:51 <validus> linux book rather. not box lol
485 2011-02-21 02:11:55 <Diablo-D3> yes, using drivers we wrote ourselves.
486 2011-02-21 02:12:00 <[Tycho]> Intel creates best CPUs :)
487 2011-02-21 02:12:05 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: not even
488 2011-02-21 02:12:07 <Diablo-D3> they're rather shit
489 2011-02-21 02:12:15 <validus> i spent 47 + hrs till i got ati's to finally acknowledge it
490 2011-02-21 02:12:21 <validus> and only in xbmc. not mplayer vaapi
491 2011-02-21 02:12:32 <[Tycho]> AMD is for gamers, overclockers and mostly poor people.
492 2011-02-21 02:12:34 <validus> id idnt sleep for almost 3 days
493 2011-02-21 02:12:45 <Diablo-D3> validus: erm, mplayer vaapi works fine for me
494 2011-02-21 02:12:55 <Diablo-D3> validus: you just gotta install the libva backend for fglrx
495 2011-02-21 02:12:56 <validus> intel and amd is neck and neck besides certain benchmarks. if you take results of top of the line of both
496 2011-02-21 02:13:07 <validus> oh its past that diablo: i had to get mplayer-vaapi
497 2011-02-21 02:13:14 <validus> released dec 2010
498 2011-02-21 02:13:16 <Diablo-D3> validus: its pointless because the hardware only does bluray profile (not even full high profile)
499 2011-02-21 02:13:24 <validus> and the website was down when i found it on top of it
500 2011-02-21 02:13:27 <Diablo-D3> mplayer upstream refuses to merge libva patches
501 2011-02-21 02:13:35 <validus> mplayer vaapi does work for mkv's
502 2011-02-21 02:13:36 <Diablo-D3> even though libva _is the official xorg/fdo api for this shit_
503 2011-02-21 02:13:41 <validus> i got it to work. just almost 50 damn hours later
504 2011-02-21 02:13:43 <Diablo-D3> validus: read what I wrote
505 2011-02-21 02:13:46 <Diablo-D3> it only works for _some_ h264.
506 2011-02-21 02:13:53 <mmarker> Son of a bitch. Who writes intrinsics where I can't set each vector to a seperate value
507 2011-02-21 02:13:54 <Diablo-D3> the hardware only accelerates specific h264 ops.
508 2011-02-21 02:14:06 <validus> same with dxva
509 2011-02-21 02:14:12 <Diablo-D3> up, same issue
510 2011-02-21 02:14:14 <validus> but i was on a p4 then. i coudlnt watch 720p without hw accelleration
511 2011-02-21 02:14:23 <Diablo-D3> yup
512 2011-02-21 02:14:27 <validus> windows would. linux wouldnt. and it was ati drivers that caused it
513 2011-02-21 02:14:29 <validus> that pissed me off
514 2011-02-21 02:14:30 <validus> lol
515 2011-02-21 02:15:09 <validus> BUT i was successful in the end
516 2011-02-21 02:15:14 <validus> even though it took xbma to do it
517 2011-02-21 02:15:31 <Diablo-D3> validus: well, like I said, mplayer-vaapi works for me.
518 2011-02-21 02:15:36 <validus> but i had the town 720p playing smooth
519 2011-02-21 02:15:46 <Diablo-D3> but most of my videos, obviously, wont play on hw accel
520 2011-02-21 02:15:50 <Diablo-D3> because they're not bluray profile
521 2011-02-21 02:15:50 <validus> the first i heard of mplayer-vaapi, their site was down, then it finally came back
522 2011-02-21 02:15:57 <validus> i had to compile it 18 times from gcc faults
523 2011-02-21 02:16:00 <hacim> what is vaapi
524 2011-02-21 02:16:01 <validus> which i later found out why but thats ok lol
525 2011-02-21 02:16:05 <Diablo-D3> hacim: libVA
526 2011-02-21 02:16:17 <Diablo-D3> hacim: the official video accel api by xorg and fdo.
527 2011-02-21 02:16:21 <validus> things just refused to work
528 2011-02-21 02:16:25 <validus> so it was 1/2 pc and 1/2 driver
529 2011-02-21 02:16:29 <hacim> huh
530 2011-02-21 02:16:37 <Diablo-D3> validus: generally, it usually will refuse to work on any hardware accelerator
531 2011-02-21 02:16:41 <Diablo-D3> validus: h264 is a crock of shit
532 2011-02-21 02:16:46 <hacim> why isn't that just in regular mplayer?
533 2011-02-21 02:16:56 <Diablo-D3> hacim: they reufse to merge the patches
534 2011-02-21 02:17:01 <validus> well considering dec 2010 release date. its great its there but damn. that long
535 2011-02-21 02:17:03 <Diablo-D3> they merged the fucking useless nvidia api instead
536 2011-02-21 02:17:05 <Diablo-D3> which no one uses
537 2011-02-21 02:17:15 <Diablo-D3> and libva has a backend for nvidia's shit too
538 2011-02-21 02:17:28 <validus> i aint paying high dollar for problems
539 2011-02-21 02:17:33 <Diablo-D3> h264 is basically 4 standards
540 2011-02-21 02:17:37 <Diablo-D3> all different
541 2011-02-21 02:17:44 <validus> but im not talking just h264. drivers in general
542 2011-02-21 02:17:49 <Diablo-D3> you can write a decoder that does EVERY SINGLE FEATURE, but theres a lot of redundant shit
543 2011-02-21 02:17:50 <mmarker> It's a standard, what do you expect
544 2011-02-21 02:17:59 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: theora doesnt have this issue, vp8 doesnt.
545 2011-02-21 02:18:07 <Diablo-D3> no redundant duplicitive features.
546 2011-02-21 02:18:09 <mmarker> Diablo: But they ain't standards. :D
547 2011-02-21 02:18:21 <validus> set your own standard
548 2011-02-21 02:18:24 <Diablo-D3> no, they're not patented. theres a difference.
549 2011-02-21 02:18:25 <validus> dont be a sheep :/
550 2011-02-21 02:18:29 <validus> :P
551 2011-02-21 02:18:49 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: It's more of a crack on standard-by-committee, which is usually a recipe for disaster.
552 2011-02-21 02:19:01 <mmarker> Ok, nix usually, most always.
553 2011-02-21 02:19:09 <validus> who is anyone to tell you what you can use or not use
554 2011-02-21 02:19:11 <Diablo-D3> like I said
555 2011-02-21 02:19:13 <Diablo-D3> nvidia and ati both
556 2011-02-21 02:19:17 <Diablo-D3> they decode only what blurays use
557 2011-02-21 02:19:20 <Diablo-D3> which is a subset of high profile
558 2011-02-21 02:19:41 <validus> i havent got into blu rays so i dont know all that yet, i do know ppl than burn their own and rip them though
559 2011-02-21 02:19:53 <validus> cost of bd dl's is just retarded
560 2011-02-21 02:20:01 <mmarker> Grr, back to my arm problem., I should not need to grep the compiler source code for info on how to use this POS
561 2011-02-21 02:20:17 <Diablo-D3> validus: its the ripping process thats a problem
562 2011-02-21 02:20:31 <Diablo-D3> most rippers use all of high profile, and then other features
563 2011-02-21 02:21:17 <Diablo-D3> also, lets say you watch iphone compat shit
564 2011-02-21 02:21:20 <Diablo-D3> thats main profile
565 2011-02-21 02:21:27 <Diablo-D3> high profile decoders cant decode it
566 2011-02-21 02:21:32 <Diablo-D3> and iphones cant decode main profile
567 2011-02-21 02:21:41 <Diablo-D3> er they cant high
568 2011-02-21 02:21:57 <Diablo-D3> and then theres a profile below main called baseline
569 2011-02-21 02:22:08 <Diablo-D3> and main-only deocders cant do baseline
570 2011-02-21 02:22:11 <Diablo-D3> etc etc
571 2011-02-21 02:22:12 <Diablo-D3> its all massive bullshit
572 2011-02-21 02:22:21 <Diablo-D3> at least with ffmpeg I can do every fucking single feature in the whole fucking thing
573 2011-02-21 02:22:26 <Diablo-D3> shit that no one else even implements
574 2011-02-21 02:23:42 <Diablo-D3> so no, vaapi isnt even that interesting to me
575 2011-02-21 02:24:32 <Diablo-D3> thats why I dont bother using it, most of my shit just wont work with it
576 2011-02-21 02:33:35 <necrodearia> updated http://meta.witcoin.com/p/56/user-generated-categories
577 2011-02-21 02:34:55 <ElectRo`> anybody else running fluxbox + bitcoin here
578 2011-02-21 02:35:28 <necrodearia> ElectRo`, I'm not, but ever since about v0.3.3 i noticed the trayicon in kde is broken
579 2011-02-21 02:38:55 <luke-jr_> necrodearia: try Spesmilo? :
580 2011-02-21 02:39:34 <luke-jr_> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo/archive-tarball/tonal (tar.gz)
581 2011-02-21 02:39:42 <luke-jr_> requires PySide and bitcoind
582 2011-02-21 02:40:48 <necrodearia> http://nullvoid.org/bitcoin/difficultiez.php wow, difficulty jumped a bit
583 2011-02-21 02:42:51 <[Tycho]> 40% :(
584 2011-02-21 02:42:53 <mmarker> I love cryptic GCC errors
585 2011-02-21 02:44:15 <mmarker> Oh good. Move for 50 errors to 100
586 2011-02-21 02:45:12 <Lachesis> luke-jr_, i gave spesmilo a try
587 2011-02-21 02:45:16 <Lachesis> line-by-line balances read N/A
588 2011-02-21 02:45:20 <Lachesis> and it's missing my address book
589 2011-02-21 02:45:29 <Lachesis> (and some of the settings in the wallet, like paytxfee)
590 2011-02-21 02:45:41 <Lachesis> but other than that, i could totally switch to it + a bitcoind
591 2011-02-21 02:45:47 <luke-jr_> Lachesis: erm, *what* address book?
592 2011-02-21 02:46:03 <Lachesis> the list of receiving and sending addresses
593 2011-02-21 02:46:06 <Lachesis> did i just miss it?
594 2011-02-21 02:46:53 <luke-jr_> no, it only shows 1 of the 2 addresses
595 2011-02-21 02:47:07 <luke-jr_> balance is basically non-trivial because bitcoind doesn't give us tx-by-tx balance
596 2011-02-21 02:47:13 <bk128> is anyone running a ati card 58xx/59xx in a pci-e x1 slot?
597 2011-02-21 02:47:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 25997, is 4 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds
598 2011-02-21 02:47:20 <luke-jr_> ;;bc,calcd 265000 25997
599 2011-02-21 02:47:23 <Lachesis> bk128, yeah
600 2011-02-21 02:47:26 <Lachesis> 5870 over here
601 2011-02-21 02:47:28 <Lachesis> in a 1x slot
602 2011-02-21 02:47:36 <Lachesis> actually that's not true
603 2011-02-21 02:47:41 <Lachesis> i tried it there but it didn't work
604 2011-02-21 02:47:44 <Lachesis> unrelated to the slot though
605 2011-02-21 02:47:46 <Lachesis> the card was bad
606 2011-02-21 02:47:57 <bk128> oh.  did you use a 16x riser and cut the bottom?
607 2011-02-21 02:47:57 <Lachesis> didn't try my other card in that slot
608 2011-02-21 02:48:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 6 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes, and 40 seconds
609 2011-02-21 02:48:03 <luke-jr_> ;;bc,calc 265000
610 2011-02-21 02:48:05 <Lachesis> oh hold on
611 2011-02-21 02:48:11 <Lachesis> it's still PCI-E 2.0
612 2011-02-21 02:48:15 <Lachesis> so perhaps not a 1x slot?
613 2011-02-21 02:49:02 <xelister> bk128: is that possible? wow
614 2011-02-21 02:49:25 <bk128> just doesnt use a bunch of the data lanes.  art says it's possible
615 2011-02-21 02:50:24 <[Tycho]> Today i posted a link to article about fitting 5970 in x1 slot.
616 2011-02-21 02:50:41 <bk128> still have it?
617 2011-02-21 02:50:55 <[Tycho]> May be. Can you check in log ?
618 2011-02-21 02:50:58 <TheKid> [Tycho]: hacksaw?
619 2011-02-21 02:51:07 <[Tycho]> Both.
620 2011-02-21 02:51:15 <[Tycho]> And one short wire.
621 2011-02-21 02:51:45 <[Tycho]> Actually Art* uses x1 slots, i suppose.
622 2011-02-21 02:51:59 <bk128> I might try getting http://www.dhgate.com/pci-e-express-x16-riser-card-1-slot-with/p-ff8080812c305fe5012c367decb86967.html
623 2011-02-21 02:52:10 <bk128> then cutting the bottom and pulling out the 12v lines to a molex connector
624 2011-02-21 02:53:08 <luke-jr_> w00t, self-mining so far gets me 142% of ;;bc,calc estimates :P
625 2011-02-21 02:53:20 <bk128> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
626 2011-02-21 02:54:29 <JFK911> luke-jr_: How long?
627 2011-02-21 02:55:36 <[Tycho]> bk128, yes.
628 2011-02-21 02:56:11 <mmarker> Oh hell, I may have it done.
629 2011-02-21 02:56:44 <mmarker> this compile is a bit...long though
630 2011-02-21 02:56:46 <jlk102935908a> ;;bc,calc 3600000
631 2011-02-21 02:56:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 12 hours, 4 minutes, and 58 seconds
632 2011-02-21 02:57:27 <mmarker> uhh. this is getting bad. A single source compile full of just intrinsics shouldn;t be taking 128megs
633 2011-02-21 02:57:42 <luke-jr_> JFK911: since Feb 2
634 2011-02-21 02:57:48 <jgarzik> mmagic: cpuminer or ufasoft's miner?
635 2011-02-21 02:58:08 <jlk102935908a> ;;bc,calc 36000
636 2011-02-21 02:58:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 36000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 7 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 17 minutes, and 13 seconds
637 2011-02-21 02:58:16 <luke-jr_> "should have" is 175 BTC, actual is 250
638 2011-02-21 02:58:23 <mmarker> jgarzik: yours. Going to do a proper push if I can test the code
639 2011-02-21 02:58:25 <jlk102935908a> 2 months, yikes.
640 2011-02-21 02:59:00 <jgarzik> mmarker: sha256_4way.c is indeed resource intensive here, too
641 2011-02-21 02:59:02 <luke-jr_> JFK911: first 10 days, I got nothin. then 2 blocks within 5 hours :P
642 2011-02-21 02:59:07 <Blitzboom> i got 4 blocks in 3 days, so
643 2011-02-21 02:59:18 <jgarzik> takes 5-10 seconds to build, on my beefy machine
644 2011-02-21 02:59:25 <jgarzik> shockingly long, in these modern times ;-)
645 2011-02-21 02:59:27 <Blitzboom> with 350 mhash/s
646 2011-02-21 02:59:58 <luke-jr_> so now I'll 11 days ahead I guess
647 2011-02-21 03:00:01 <luke-jr_> I'm*
648 2011-02-21 03:00:58 <Blitzboom> im fine if i make as much as my gpu costed me
649 2011-02-21 03:01:14 <luke-jr_> and that's not even factoring in the time I pause my miner to play PS2 games :P
650 2011-02-21 03:01:27 <luke-jr_> Blitzboom: I did that in under 2 weeks :D
651 2011-02-21 03:01:34 <Blitzboom> nice
652 2011-02-21 03:02:20 <luke-jr_> Soft Solitary Tri Pansy
653 2011-02-21 03:03:23 <Lachesis> mmarker, what are you adding?
654 2011-02-21 03:04:29 <jgarzik> how unprofessional.  Google Calendar displays my event on my calendar as "House answer to foo & bar" as "House answer to foo &amp; bar"
655 2011-02-21 03:06:14 <bk128> what's a good program on linux to see cpu temp? (debian)
656 2011-02-21 03:06:29 <bk128> and other motherboard stats (voltage etc)
657 2011-02-21 03:07:13 <pogden> I'm pretty sure both GNOME and KDE have widgets for CPU temp
658 2011-02-21 03:07:38 <bk128> ok
659 2011-02-21 03:07:42 <doublec> gnome has the sensors applet
660 2011-02-21 03:10:05 <JFK911> luke-jr_: cool
661 2011-02-21 03:14:19 <mmarker> Lachesis: NEON 4way code for jgarzik's cpuminer
662 2011-02-21 03:14:38 <Lachesis> speedups?
663 2011-02-21 03:14:44 <mmarker> Maybe. We shall see
664 2011-02-21 03:15:00 <Diablo-D3> [11:04:29] <jgarzik> how unprofessional.  Google Calendar displays my event on my calendar as "House answer to foo & bar" as "House answer to foo &amp; bar"
665 2011-02-21 03:15:06 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: not unprofessional
666 2011-02-21 03:15:10 <mmarker> jgarzik: your cpuminer doesn't have a test for the SHA hash to make sure it's right?
667 2011-02-21 03:15:14 <Diablo-D3> they just have a convert in the wrong place
668 2011-02-21 03:15:16 <Diablo-D3> it happens
669 2011-02-21 03:15:40 <Diablo-D3> or they're double converting it
670 2011-02-21 03:15:43 <Diablo-D3> which also happens
671 2011-02-21 03:16:21 <mmarker> hmm, assembly code looks maybe OK, not a lot of thrashing
672 2011-02-21 03:21:31 <mmarker> Ok, glue added. Let's see if we don't segfault
673 2011-02-21 03:24:11 <mmarker> and defeated again by auto*
674 2011-02-21 03:25:14 <mmarker> oh. uh. scratch that
675 2011-02-21 03:26:02 <mmarker> Ok. the kernel C version on the cortex-a8, about 273.78khash/sec
676 2011-02-21 03:26:25 <mmarker> *crosses fingers*
677 2011-02-21 03:28:24 <mmarker> aaaand we have an internal compiler error. Nice.
678 2011-02-21 03:28:29 <Diablo-D3> sweet!
679 2011-02-21 03:29:08 <mmarker> I threw on GCCs vectorizer. Probably not wise...
680 2011-02-21 03:29:18 <validus> i had those on mplayer vaapi, just dont know if it was the actual pc or gcc as it died not much later
681 2011-02-21 03:29:54 <mmarker> My experience is once you wander away from gcc for x86...things get a little dodgy.
682 2011-02-21 03:30:24 <validus> that was on x86
683 2011-02-21 03:30:26 <validus> heh
684 2011-02-21 03:30:37 <mmarker> IOW, it's probably a real gcc bug
685 2011-02-21 03:30:42 <mmarker> versus "my memory is shot"
686 2011-02-21 03:31:41 <mmarker> Crap. Boom
687 2011-02-21 03:31:50 <mmarker> time to compile it on the cross compiler.
688 2011-02-21 04:03:05 <afed_> ;;bc,stats
689 2011-02-21 04:03:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 109430 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 1449 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 15 hours, 32 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48082.82032623
690 2011-02-21 04:03:14 <afed_> that diff est is murder
691 2011-02-21 04:04:05 <Lachesis> jeez it is
692 2011-02-21 04:04:40 <TheKid> anyone want to buy 5 bitcoins for 4 bucks?
693 2011-02-21 04:04:48 <TheKid> need a little more for an SSD I'm buying
694 2011-02-21 04:05:11 <ZenMondo> what's the current exchange?
695 2011-02-21 04:05:29 <TheKid> higher than that
696 2011-02-21 04:05:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8954,"low":0.831,"vol":3548,"buy":0.84,"sell":0.86,"last":0.8313}}
697 2011-02-21 04:05:36 <Lachesis> ;;bc,mtgox
698 2011-02-21 04:05:36 <TheKid> that would be buying at .8 each
699 2011-02-21 04:05:38 <TheKid> good deal
700 2011-02-21 04:05:46 <TheKid> but I need some quick cash
701 2011-02-21 04:06:14 <Lachesis> TheKid, sell me 25 at that rate and i'll do it :)
702 2011-02-21 04:06:24 <JFK911> TheKid: OK, send me the $4 by Western Union
703 2011-02-21 04:06:30 <Lachesis> lol nm then
704 2011-02-21 04:08:16 <TheKid> JFK911: what, no
705 2011-02-21 04:09:13 <JFK911> OK then mail me a cheque, I'll wait for it to clear
706 2011-02-21 04:09:40 <Lachesis> TheKid, you're trying to SELL bitcoins FOR dollars, right?
707 2011-02-21 04:10:04 <Lachesis> and you're saying you're $4 short to buy a >100 SSD?
708 2011-02-21 04:10:33 <TheKid> Lachesis: yes
709 2011-02-21 04:10:55 <Lachesis> TheKid, alright, I'll bite
710 2011-02-21 04:12:02 <TheKid> someone already did ;)
711 2011-02-21 04:12:03 <TheKid> sorry
712 2011-02-21 04:12:18 <Lachesis> kk np
713 2011-02-21 04:12:51 <Lachesis> anyone selling 5870s?
714 2011-02-21 04:13:35 <nanotube> Lachesis: there's an sell order for 5770 on the otc book ;)
715 2011-02-21 04:13:54 <TheKid> Lachesis: I'lk potentially sell one for 250 USD or an equivalent amount of bitcoins
716 2011-02-21 04:14:09 <afed_> i'll probably liquidate after one or two more diff increases
717 2011-02-21 04:16:26 <Lachesis> TheKid, nah, that's what they cost on newegg
718 2011-02-21 04:16:49 <Lachesis> was hoping to get a discount, although i suppose i'm asking 2 months two early :)
719 2011-02-21 04:17:27 <Lachesis> what is Dwolla, btw?
720 2011-02-21 04:18:52 <mmarker> Funding from your bank account
721 2011-02-21 04:19:02 <mmarker> easier wire transfers, in essence
722 2011-02-21 04:19:29 <Lachesis> neat
723 2011-02-21 04:19:37 <Lachesis> fees?
724 2011-02-21 04:19:40 <mmarker> .25
725 2011-02-21 04:19:41 <mmarker> flat
726 2011-02-21 04:20:06 <mmagic> a while back, Art, you mentioned you'd written a tool which was capable of peeking/poking at the i2c to read VRM temps and set voltages in Linux. is there an official tool somewhere that does it, or did you ever end up releasing the one you built?
727 2011-02-21 04:20:16 <TheKid> Lachesis: it is a discount, it's a vapor-x cooler
728 2011-02-21 04:20:31 <TheKid> those retailed for ~330
729 2011-02-21 04:20:41 <TheKid> and they work amazingly
730 2011-02-21 04:21:09 <Lachesis> what's special about it?
731 2011-02-21 04:21:19 <TheKid> it's a non reference cooler that's not shit
732 2011-02-21 04:21:23 <TheKid> hold on I'll link a review
733 2011-02-21 04:22:04 <nanotube> mmarker: you just got rated on otc ;)
734 2011-02-21 04:22:22 <mmarker> Oh, nuts
735 2011-02-21 04:22:38 <JFK911> I'm running the sapphire non-reference
736 2011-02-21 04:22:42 <JFK911> overclocked to the max
737 2011-02-21 04:22:45 <JFK911> 72C
738 2011-02-21 04:23:00 <JFK911> 40% fan
739 2011-02-21 04:23:52 <TheKid> http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/sapphire_radeon_5870_vapor-x_review/page11.asp
740 2011-02-21 04:24:39 <JFK911> yah i dont have that one its the cheaper version
741 2011-02-21 04:24:41 <Lachesis> huh what hash rate do you get with it?
742 2011-02-21 04:24:53 <JFK911> overclocked?  350kk
743 2011-02-21 04:24:57 <TheKid> well it's a 5870
744 2011-02-21 04:25:08 <TheKid> JFK911: what cooling do you have?
745 2011-02-21 04:25:55 <TheKid> and what's ambient
746 2011-02-21 04:26:11 <Lachesis> TheKid, so... what hash rate do you get? :)
747 2011-02-21 04:26:30 <mmarker> Ok, this cross compiler is gonna kill me
748 2011-02-21 04:27:05 <TheKid> what JFK said
749 2011-02-21 04:27:40 <JFK911> 25c ambient
750 2011-02-21 04:28:06 <mmarker> It's time for sleep
751 2011-02-21 04:28:29 <JFK911> 3 additional 80mm fans in the box
752 2011-02-21 04:28:51 <TheKid> 350mh/s
753 2011-02-21 04:29:03 <JFK911> 1 in the front 2 in the back
754 2011-02-21 04:29:17 <Lachesis> mmarker, lol gl in the morning
755 2011-02-21 04:29:18 <TheKid> JFK911: I couldn't keep the damn thing cool for the life of me
756 2011-02-21 04:29:21 <JFK911> oh
757 2011-02-21 04:29:27 <mmarker> Gotta work tomorrow. My day job is more chemistry
758 2011-02-21 04:29:36 <JFK911> i also took a drive bay cover off
759 2011-02-21 04:29:43 <TheKid> what's ambient in your room?
760 2011-02-21 04:29:59 <JFK911> then that helped a lot
761 2011-02-21 04:30:15 <JFK911> 25c ambient, box on the floor
762 2011-02-21 04:30:19 <TheKid> I had dual 120mms pointed right at the damn thing
763 2011-02-21 04:30:22 <Lachesis> TheKid, JFK911, I've got a box fan pointed at the side of the case
764 2011-02-21 04:30:24 <Lachesis> 500 mm fan :)
765 2011-02-21 04:30:25 <JFK911> air has to flow thru the chassis.  with the cover off, it gets warmer
766 2011-02-21 04:30:28 <JFK911> you tried manually setting the fan?
767 2011-02-21 04:30:31 <Lachesis> TheKid, where are you? US?
768 2011-02-21 04:30:36 <TheKid> Buffalo NY
769 2011-02-21 04:30:42 <TheKid> yep
770 2011-02-21 04:30:45 <JFK911> 100% sounds annoying.
771 2011-02-21 04:30:48 <Lachesis> How much would shipping to 45219 be?
772 2011-02-21 04:30:57 <TheKid> JFK911: manually at 100%
773 2011-02-21 04:31:04 <TheKid> probably around 15-20 bucks
774 2011-02-21 04:31:20 <JFK911> my card is model #100281-3SR
775 2011-02-21 04:31:27 <JFK911> i saw a more expensive version from sapphier with a slightly different model number
776 2011-02-21 04:31:29 <TheKid> JFK911: yeah that's the shit one I had
777 2011-02-21 04:31:34 <TheKid> huh maybe I just got one that they left the thermal paste off :P
778 2011-02-21 04:31:36 <Lachesis> eh i'll pass for now
779 2011-02-21 04:31:39 <JFK911> or put too much on :(
780 2011-02-21 04:31:41 <JFK911> i paid $130 on craigslist
781 2011-02-21 04:31:44 <bk128> is there a way to view fan speed in aticonfig?
782 2011-02-21 04:31:46 <TheKid> nice
783 2011-02-21 04:31:48 <Lachesis> lol : http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bar/2215914178.html
784 2011-02-21 04:31:51 <JFK911> Bong Hits, BRB!
785 2011-02-21 04:31:53 <TheKid> yeah that guy posts on almost all of the craigslists
786 2011-02-21 04:31:57 <TheKid> he HAS to be a miner
787 2011-02-21 04:56:31 <SantoC> bitcoin is the shit
788 2011-02-21 04:58:38 <SantoC> bitcoin and trading currency the like will be the solution to fair trade
789 2011-02-21 04:59:02 <SantoC> evolution in the process
790 2011-02-21 05:01:02 <Blitzboom> its pure anarchocapitalism
791 2011-02-21 05:01:05 <Blitzboom> imo
792 2011-02-21 05:05:33 <SantoC> the means are now provided for us to manage our assets without the intervention of some sleezebag  banker
793 2011-02-21 05:05:43 <SantoC> i love the fact that im apart of this
794 2011-02-21 05:06:43 <SantoC> i can see drugs being legallized because of this whole situation
795 2011-02-21 05:06:56 <SantoC> since drugs are being trade as it is...globally
796 2011-02-21 05:06:59 <SantoC> the biggest commodities
797 2011-02-21 05:07:03 <SantoC> i love this
798 2011-02-21 05:07:13 <Blitzboom> haha, keep up yout enthusiasm
799 2011-02-21 05:07:17 <Blitzboom> your*
800 2011-02-21 05:08:15 <SantoC> this is what the jews did
801 2011-02-21 05:08:20 <ZenMondo> Is there a mechanism built into the Bitcoin client and network against a DoS style attack?
802 2011-02-21 05:08:21 <SantoC> when they were not allowed to trade with notes
803 2011-02-21 05:08:38 <SantoC> the merchant of venice
804 2011-02-21 05:08:40 <SantoC> good movie
805 2011-02-21 05:08:54 <ZenMondo> Let's say I create a botnet and start sending bogus transactions on port 8333 to hosts known to be running bitcoin, and/or just random hosts.  How much work does a host have to perform to validate/invalidate a transaction?  How many connections can the client handle?
806 2011-02-21 05:26:41 <devon_hillard> has it become not worthwhile to be mining while gaming with the new slush rules?
807 2011-02-21 05:26:59 <afed_> any shares are better than no shares
808 2011-02-21 05:27:12 <devon_hillard> what about casual miners that don't mine 24/7?
809 2011-02-21 05:27:50 <devon_hillard> there are no shares as I understand them now, just a score?
810 2011-02-21 05:28:04 <afed_> false
811 2011-02-21 05:28:17 <afed_> shares are counted and displayed
812 2011-02-21 05:28:24 <afed_> used to determine score
813 2011-02-21 05:28:27 <devon_hillard> if I mine while I am gaming, would I be penalized more than just by the reduced hashes/s?
814 2011-02-21 05:28:30 <afed_> score determines reward
815 2011-02-21 05:28:47 <afed_> it would be like you had a slower card
816 2011-02-21 05:28:54 <afed_> don't overthink it
817 2011-02-21 05:29:20 <devon_hillard> yeah, but hashes/s will vary more
818 2011-02-21 05:30:48 <afed_> that isn't really a problem
819 2011-02-21 05:31:14 <devon_hillard> so who ends up penalized?
820 2011-02-21 05:31:29 <afed_> people who mine for a period and disconnect
821 2011-02-21 05:31:44 <devon_hillard> what sort of period?
822 2011-02-21 05:32:39 <afed_> do the math
823 2011-02-21 05:33:30 <devon_hillard> is there another pool than slush?
824 2011-02-21 05:33:36 <devon_hillard> which still uses the old rules?
825 2011-02-21 05:41:24 <lfm> the old rules allow cheating
826 2011-02-21 05:47:00 <bk128> devon_hillard: bitpenny might be back soon
827 2011-02-21 05:54:31 <CIA-57> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra9121f9 / (3 files in 2 dirs):
828 2011-02-21 05:54:34 <CIA-57> DiabloMiner: Automatically strip .[0-9] from $DISPLAY and set $COMPUTE, also make
829 2011-02-21 05:54:35 <CIA-57> DiabloMiner: work group size of 64 the default instead of the hardware default - http://bit.ly/eWQD4A
830 2011-02-21 05:57:36 <Diablo-D3> there, two less things people need to do
831 2011-02-21 05:58:02 <bk128> Diablo-D3:  :)
832 2011-02-21 05:58:21 <bk128> hostname:port?
833 2011-02-21 05:58:29 <Diablo-D3> hmm?
834 2011-02-21 05:59:40 <bk128> allow hostname:port in one parameter or separate ones?
835 2011-02-21 05:59:47 <Diablo-D3> its already in seperate
836 2011-02-21 06:00:09 <Diablo-D3> -o and -r
837 2011-02-21 06:00:55 <bk128> I know.  thought you could also allow -o hostname:port
838 2011-02-21 06:01:00 <bk128> why'd you use -o instead of -h?
839 2011-02-21 06:01:07 <Diablo-D3> because of --help
840 2011-02-21 06:01:08 <bk128> oh, help?
841 2011-02-21 06:01:18 <Diablo-D3> and if Im going to do that, I might as well just add --url
842 2011-02-21 06:01:29 <bk128> lol
843 2011-02-21 06:02:38 <lfm> bk128: why do you need a combined one?
844 2011-02-21 06:03:14 <bk128> you don't.
845 2011-02-21 06:03:40 <bk128> it would just be so new users have less chance of messing it up
846 2011-02-21 06:03:47 <lfm> ok do you want the extra complexity in the miner? you know that complexity make more bugs.
847 2011-02-21 06:03:50 <bk128> i've seen people on forums trying -o hostname:port
848 2011-02-21 06:05:01 <lfm> ya its amazing sometimes the mistakes people make, its not clear your idea would reduce mistakes tho
849 2011-02-21 06:05:35 <Diablo-D3> bk128: I know, I wish they wouldnt
850 2011-02-21 06:05:46 <Diablo-D3> lfm: well, with url, they can just copy pasta the whole fucking thing
851 2011-02-21 06:05:52 <Diablo-D3> and btw, its not complex
852 2011-02-21 06:05:57 <lfm> Diablo-D3: can you do a syntax check on the host name?
853 2011-02-21 06:06:04 <Diablo-D3> I can, sure
854 2011-02-21 06:06:07 <Diablo-D3> should I? no.
855 2011-02-21 06:06:59 <JFK911> User-unfriendly!!  Why do you hate the end users?!!!?
856 2011-02-21 06:07:03 <lfm> It may let you issue a more relevant error message when people make such mistakes and reduce support needs?
857 2011-02-21 06:07:41 <Diablo-D3> error messages are for the weak
858 2011-02-21 06:07:47 <Diablo-D3> real men rtfsl
859 2011-02-21 06:08:02 <lfm> JFK911: end users do seem to ask for it sometimes, like not reading instructions
860 2011-02-21 06:09:06 <lfm> of course some end users cant read so maybe we shouldnt blame them huh?
861 2011-02-21 06:09:56 <Diablo-D3> the only end users who deserve support are the ones who donate and/or come on irc
862 2011-02-21 06:10:00 <JFK911> Dummies can use compute4cash!!
863 2011-02-21 06:10:30 <Diablo-D3> so, whos miner is compute4cash using to scam people?
864 2011-02-21 06:10:38 <Kiba> blah
865 2011-02-21 06:10:41 <Kiba> arguments on the forum
866 2011-02-21 06:10:42 <Kiba> is trash
867 2011-02-21 06:10:52 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: you'd recognize yours, wouldn't you?
868 2011-02-21 06:10:52 <lfm> JFK911:  so you saying end users should be ripped off? can we quote you on that?
869 2011-02-21 06:11:07 <Kiba> some socialist guy say this is what happening to his country without explaining why
870 2011-02-21 06:11:18 <JFK911> lfm: seems to be ok everywhere else to take advantage of dummies.  If you don't, then you're at a disadvantage
871 2011-02-21 06:11:34 <JFK911> and I think
872 2011-02-21 06:11:48 <JFK911> if you for instance, sat in front of a tv your whole life, trying to avoid learning anything
873 2011-02-21 06:11:53 <JFK911> you deserve that!
874 2011-02-21 06:12:05 <lfm> JFK911: maybe in the long run we will wish we had the dummies on our side
875 2011-02-21 06:12:31 <JFK911> talk radio hosts already control their minds
876 2011-02-21 06:14:09 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: I havent tried out his shit
877 2011-02-21 06:14:15 <Diablo-D3> but remember, mines open source
878 2011-02-21 06:14:22 <Diablo-D3> well then again
879 2011-02-21 06:14:26 <Diablo-D3> if its java, its a dead give away
880 2011-02-21 06:14:59 <lfm> Diablo-D3: hehe if they cant read instructions how much use is source code?
881 2011-02-21 06:15:13 <JFK911> Yeah I'm sure once you saw the package spread out you'd see if it was your thing
882 2011-02-21 06:15:27 <JFK911> There are others that are free tho like momchil's
883 2011-02-21 06:16:05 <lfm> m0mchil's miner is not really any different
884 2011-02-21 06:16:15 <Diablo-D3> yeah but you can hide python
885 2011-02-21 06:16:21 <Diablo-D3> just use py2exe
886 2011-02-21 06:16:25 <Diablo-D3> no one would ever know its python
887 2011-02-21 06:16:31 <lfm> huh? why hide it?
888 2011-02-21 06:16:39 <Diablo-D3> isnt compute4cash a scam?
889 2011-02-21 06:17:04 <JFK911> If they pay out like they say they will, probably technically no
890 2011-02-21 06:17:14 <lfm> the guy running it doesnt think so, he is providing extra service for an larger cut
891 2011-02-21 06:17:19 <JFK911> wouldnt it be funny tho if bitcoins dropped back to three pennies
892 2011-02-21 06:17:48 <lfm> JFK911: funny for those who have none maybe
893 2011-02-21 06:17:59 <JFK911> well funny for compute4cash guy