1 2011-02-25 00:01:16 <midnightmagic> a massive jump of 100GHash seemed a bit outside of what you were originally reaching for.. well then. wow. lots of individuals i guess! that is a positive thing, i think..
  2 2011-02-25 00:02:08 <ArtForz> I kinda doubt that
  3 2011-02-25 00:02:38 <midnightmagic> oh? all that steve gibson+slashdot publicity..?
  4 2011-02-25 00:02:56 <ArtForz> yeah
  5 2011-02-25 00:03:06 <ArtForz> still doubt it's lots of individuals
  6 2011-02-25 00:03:21 <ArtForz> more likely half a dozen medium-sized ops
  7 2011-02-25 00:04:08 <midnightmagic> i wonder if they realise what will happen to confidence in the currency if they scare away the individual miners.
  8 2011-02-25 00:04:30 <ArtForz> nothing, really
  9 2011-02-25 00:05:54 <midnightmagic> consolidation of mining strength into the hands of a half-dozen medium-sized ops means they have a chance of identifying each other and collaborating on currency manipulation, doesn't it?
 10 2011-02-25 00:06:55 <ArtForz> not really
 11 2011-02-25 00:06:59 <bk128> ArtForz: having trouble keeping the oven temp down.  is 90C going to kill it?
 12 2011-02-25 00:07:06 <ArtForz> no
 13 2011-02-25 00:07:18 <ArtForz> but I wouldnt go > 100 at least for a few hours
 14 2011-02-25 00:07:31 <ArtForz> don't want shit that still has water trapped to go *pop*
 15 2011-02-25 00:07:38 <bk128> what goes first?  electrolytics and plastics?
 16 2011-02-25 00:07:49 <ArtForz> plastics usually
 17 2011-02-25 00:07:54 <Blitzboom> how do i do a rescan?
 18 2011-02-25 00:07:59 <Blitzboom> for missing transactions
 19 2011-02-25 00:08:03 <ArtForz> 'lytics are quite sturdy
 20 2011-02-25 00:08:10 <Blitzboom> bitcoin.exe -rescan in cmd?
 21 2011-02-25 00:08:18 <ArtForz> hey, they have to handle reflow soldering...
 22 2011-02-25 00:08:21 <Blitzboom> because that didnt work for me
 23 2011-02-25 00:08:28 <bk128> yeah.  but only for a little bit :)
 24 2011-02-25 00:08:43 <ArtForz> still usually 5min+ > 150???C
 25 2011-02-25 00:08:55 <bk128> did you program your reflow oven to do the ramp up/ ramp down heating pattern?
 26 2011-02-25 00:08:56 <midnightmagic> hey Blitzboom aren't you the guy who got his wallet stolen?
 27 2011-02-25 00:09:03 <ArtForz> yeah
 28 2011-02-25 00:09:05 <bk128> wow
 29 2011-02-25 00:09:05 <Blitzboom> uhm yes
 30 2011-02-25 00:09:15 <ArtForz> though I pretty much ramp up at 100%
 31 2011-02-25 00:09:18 <Blitzboom> but its just a convenience matter now
 32 2011-02-25 00:09:18 <midnightmagic> feel for ya man. hats off to the folks who helped you recover.
 33 2011-02-25 00:09:28 <Blitzboom> yeah. props to them
 34 2011-02-25 00:09:37 <bk128> how'd it get stolen? patch.exe or the backup service?
 35 2011-02-25 00:09:40 <ArtForz> except when temp close to heaters goes > 450???C
 36 2011-02-25 00:09:47 <Blitzboom> bk128: right, it was java
 37 2011-02-25 00:09:48 <midnightmagic> backup trojan according to the forum post..
 38 2011-02-25 00:09:56 <ArtForz> then I throttle back for a while to avoid heaters emitting too much IR
 39 2011-02-25 00:10:00 <Blitzboom> anyway
 40 2011-02-25 00:10:13 <Blitzboom> does anyone know how to get the client to search for missing transactions?
 41 2011-02-25 00:10:15 <ArtForz> I'm doing convection, not IR reflow ;)
 42 2011-02-25 00:10:19 <Blitzboom> i changed my wallets and want it to update
 43 2011-02-25 00:10:22 <bk128> :)
 44 2011-02-25 00:10:27 <Blitzboom> so how do i do that?
 45 2011-02-25 00:10:45 <echelon> so.. anyone interested in a bitcoin assassination market?
 46 2011-02-25 00:10:49 <bk128> fancy reflow oven.  want to sell me a controller :)
 47 2011-02-25 00:10:53 <Blitzboom> echelon: i am
 48 2011-02-25 00:11:06 <echelon> you have 100.000btc?
 49 2011-02-25 00:11:16 <bk128> I'm not nearly good enough at programming MCU's yet
 50 2011-02-25 00:11:18 <Blitzboom> 100k? not yet :D
 51 2011-02-25 00:11:22 <echelon> :/
 52 2011-02-25 00:11:39 <Blitzboom> man, i want those transactions to update
 53 2011-02-25 00:11:47 <Blitzboom> how the hell do i do that without deleting the blockfiles?
 54 2011-02-25 00:11:54 <echelon> well, i can do 20.000 for individuals, and 100.000 for like royal families
 55 2011-02-25 00:12:00 <Blitzboom> i thought that was sorted out with 0.3.20
 56 2011-02-25 00:12:09 <jrabbit> btw
 57 2011-02-25 00:12:11 <echelon> Blitzboom, -rescan
 58 2011-02-25 00:12:16 <ArtForz> yeah, 0.3.20 should support -rescan
 59 2011-02-25 00:12:17 <midnightmagic> good grief, echelon..
 60 2011-02-25 00:12:18 <Blitzboom> echelon: i tried that in cmd
 61 2011-02-25 00:12:21 <jrabbit> whats that transmission fee do?
 62 2011-02-25 00:12:30 <jrabbit> where does it go?
 63 2011-02-25 00:12:37 <ArtForz> miners
 64 2011-02-25 00:12:39 <Blitzboom> how does it work, echelon?
 65 2011-02-25 00:12:48 <jrabbit> is there a blog post or something that explains it?
 66 2011-02-25 00:12:55 <ArtForz> yes
 67 2011-02-25 00:13:33 <ArtForz> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fee
 68 2011-02-25 00:13:35 <echelon> Blitzboom, did you close the client before running the command?
 69 2011-02-25 00:13:43 <Blitzboom> yes
 70 2011-02-25 00:13:56 <Blitzboom> showed up and nothing happened
 71 2011-02-25 00:14:03 <Blitzboom> that transaction is still not accepted
 72 2011-02-25 00:14:07 <echelon> did you check blockexplorer?
 73 2011-02-25 00:14:08 <Blitzboom> although it happened
 74 2011-02-25 00:14:22 <ArtForz> at 0/unconfirmed?
 75 2011-02-25 00:14:26 <ArtForz> or doesnt show up at all?
 76 2011-02-25 00:14:29 <Blitzboom> hmm. ill chek
 77 2011-02-25 00:14:32 <Blitzboom> check*
 78 2011-02-25 00:14:49 <Blitzboom> looks like it never happened, haha
 79 2011-02-25 00:14:56 <Blitzboom> ok, thats a bitcoin more for me
 80 2011-02-25 00:15:03 <Blitzboom> i dont even know what it was for anymore
 81 2011-02-25 00:15:25 <Blitzboom> but how can it be not-confirmed?
 82 2011-02-25 00:15:33 <Blitzboom> what can cause this?
 83 2011-02-25 00:16:21 <ArtForz> not containing a required fee is a good candidate
 84 2011-02-25 00:18:05 <Blitzboom> ah, whatever
 85 2011-02-25 00:26:13 <bk128> slush: ping
 86 2011-02-25 00:26:21 <slush> bk128: pong
 87 2011-02-25 00:27:03 <bk128> hey, whenever I mine to your pool, instead of to my local bitcoind, I get 550mhash vs 680 mhash (dual OC 5870's)
 88 2011-02-25 00:27:16 <bk128> is there a delay each time it has to getwork?
 89 2011-02-25 00:27:20 <bk128> and will pushwork fix this?
 90 2011-02-25 00:27:43 <bk128> using diablominer in debian, and taking the forever average after 10 mins or so
 91 2011-02-25 00:29:10 <slush> bk128: yes, it is mainly related to network overhead
 92 2011-02-25 00:29:15 <slush> and push will solve this
 93 2011-02-25 00:29:33 <bk128> ok.  :)  how will push work?  will we have to run a local daemon?
 94 2011-02-25 00:29:49 <slush> depends on miner. When miner will support the protocol, then no
 95 2011-02-25 00:30:00 <slush> for getwork-like miners, proxy will be needed
 96 2011-02-25 00:30:11 <bk128> think diablo will update his?
 97 2011-02-25 00:30:20 <bk128> and what's the eta for pushwork?
 98 2011-02-25 00:30:52 <slush> I don't want to say any date yet
 99 2011-02-25 00:31:18 <bk128> ok.  thanks again for running the pool :)
100 2011-02-25 00:32:26 <[Tycho]> Hello, people.
101 2011-02-25 00:42:25 <comboy> slush: have you just added some limit for workers or something like that?
102 2011-02-25 00:42:48 <slush> no, why?
103 2011-02-25 00:43:02 <comboy> well I got back to pool today, it worked great
104 2011-02-25 00:43:07 <[Tycho]> My pool is finally open for testing :)
105 2011-02-25 00:43:11 <comboy> just now only 3 workers work
106 2011-02-25 00:43:31 <comboy> when there are more they cannot connect
107 2011-02-25 00:43:31 <slush> [Tycho]: what url?
108 2011-02-25 00:44:07 <[Tycho]> http://deepbit.net
109 2011-02-25 00:44:15 <slush> I'm playing with firewall settings, maybe I accidentally cut you ;)
110 2011-02-25 00:44:21 <slush> Try it again now
111 2011-02-25 00:44:32 <comboy> but then these 3 would not work
112 2011-02-25 00:44:57 <slush> [Tycho]: it is share based?
113 2011-02-25 00:45:02 <comboy> still same
114 2011-02-25 00:45:22 <slush> comboy: which IP?
115 2011-02-25 00:45:39 <comboy> 89.78.116.157
116 2011-02-25 00:46:24 <comboy> now was maintenance for a while
117 2011-02-25 00:46:32 <[Tycho]> slush, yes.
118 2011-02-25 00:47:06 <slush> [Tycho]: good to know ;)
119 2011-02-25 00:47:38 <[Tycho]> Why ? :)
120 2011-02-25 00:47:51 <comboy> slush: and looks like it is back, didy you change something?
121 2011-02-25 00:48:20 <slush> comboy: yes
122 2011-02-25 00:48:24 <comboy> damn ALWAYS when I type [Tycho] I'm trying to escape [ and I type [Tychoo ;p
123 2011-02-25 00:48:32 <[Tycho]> :))
124 2011-02-25 00:48:34 <andrew12> so guys
125 2011-02-25 00:48:38 <andrew12> i got a macbook pro
126 2011-02-25 00:48:40 <andrew12> wat do
127 2011-02-25 00:49:06 <comboy> slush: bad again, weird
128 2011-02-25 00:49:40 <comboy> but today I was happily crunchingi with 8 workers x 300M, it was working great
129 2011-02-25 00:49:52 <slush> comboy: well, I see 5 estabilished connections. How many workers do you have?
130 2011-02-25 00:50:03 <andrew12> first thing i need is faster internet.. brb, rebooting my modem to see if it wants to work
131 2011-02-25 00:50:10 <validus> use it as a door stop
132 2011-02-25 00:50:14 <comboy> [Tycho]: competition seems good, I would just remove Forum right away, posting on official one gives you advertisement ;)
133 2011-02-25 00:50:14 <validus> prob books up with it
134 2011-02-25 00:50:33 <validus> leave it plugged in and use it as an ass warmer
135 2011-02-25 00:50:35 <comboy> slush: let me get all 8 up
136 2011-02-25 00:51:14 <[Tycho]> comboy, there is no forum :)
137 2011-02-25 00:51:30 <[Tycho]> comboy, it will be a link to official one.
138 2011-02-25 00:51:55 <comboy> [Tycho]: i c
139 2011-02-25 00:52:10 <comboy> slush: 5 trying to connect looks like without success
140 2011-02-25 00:52:17 <comboy> slush: and 3 happily crunching
141 2011-02-25 00:52:32 <slush> really weird
142 2011-02-25 00:53:03 <comboy> and it was working for like 8 hours, no change from my side then 5 workers with timeuts
143 2011-02-25 00:53:15 <comboy> like.. I dont know an hour ago
144 2011-02-25 00:54:25 <comboy> I'll double check everything on my side, thanks for time anyway, if you have any idea what that could be please ping me on irc
145 2011-02-25 00:54:51 <slush> well, I implemented some firewall rules because of today's DoS
146 2011-02-25 00:55:04 <slush> But I don't see a reason why it should cut your connections
147 2011-02-25 00:55:19 <slush> do you see any error on your side?
148 2011-02-25 00:55:44 <comboy> Can't connect to Bitcoin: Connection timeud out
149 2011-02-25 00:55:58 <comboy> that's all I see after some time of waiting (diablo miner)
150 2011-02-25 00:56:03 <slush> which is your ping to mining.bitcoin.cz?
151 2011-02-25 00:56:27 <comboy> which? I tried pining it was ok
152 2011-02-25 00:56:58 <comboy> it started working again!
153 2011-02-25 00:58:39 <comboy> uhm now down again..
154 2011-02-25 00:58:48 <comboy> maybe it depends on which server I meet on your side
155 2011-02-25 00:58:58 <comboy> I imagine you have some kind of balancer
156 2011-02-25 00:59:39 <comboy> maybe just one server is refusing me and when I meet it it gets me stuck because of long timout.. but then these 3 workers would not work nicely all the time...
157 2011-02-25 01:00:31 <slush> no, all requests go to the same server
158 2011-02-25 01:00:41 <comboy> ok I'm possibly not helping you with more messages, so now it partially works (5 workers), pelase tell me if I can provide you some details and I'll update if it changes
159 2011-02-25 01:06:08 <slush> comboy: works now?
160 2011-02-25 01:06:41 <comboy> slush: 5/8
161 2011-02-25 01:06:55 <slush> the rest throws some errors?
162 2011-02-25 01:07:01 <comboy> no, actually back to 3
163 2011-02-25 01:07:10 <comboy> yes timed out or just nothing and waits
164 2011-02-25 01:07:18 <slush> hmm
165 2011-02-25 01:07:29 <validus> arg i hate when im scrolled up lol
166 2011-02-25 01:16:24 <Blitzboom> oh man
167 2011-02-25 01:16:43 <Blitzboom> these non-confirmed transactions which in fact are confirmed (blockexplorer) are beginning to really go on my nerves
168 2011-02-25 01:16:55 <Blitzboom> -rescan in cmd does exactly nothing about that
169 2011-02-25 01:17:14 <Blitzboom> i dont get it
170 2011-02-25 01:29:51 <Blitzboom> seriously, do i have to re-download the whole block chain everytime i change my wallets?
171 2011-02-25 01:35:27 <TheKid> Diablo-D3: you there?
172 2011-02-25 01:35:48 <TheKid> or anyone that can help me setup diablo's miner on windows?
173 2011-02-25 01:36:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12800 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 20 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 18 minutes, and 27 seconds
174 2011-02-25 01:36:21 <jackmcbarn> ;;bc,calc 12800
175 2011-02-25 02:03:48 <TheKid> Diablo-D3: stop being afk
176 2011-02-25 02:03:49 <TheKid> :P
177 2011-02-25 02:42:55 <Diablo-D3> what
178 2011-02-25 02:43:01 <Diablo-D3> heh hes not here
179 2011-02-25 02:46:04 <jgarzik> anybody have a GPU miner, willing to help test a pool real quick?  just require a new url, username, password and a couple minutes of your GPU time.
180 2011-02-25 02:46:32 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: heh?
181 2011-02-25 02:46:36 <[Tycho]> Hello, jgarzik.
182 2011-02-25 02:46:46 <jgarzik> hello
183 2011-02-25 02:47:44 <[Tycho]> Is your miner open-source ?
184 2011-02-25 02:48:07 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: Yes.  https://github.com/jgarzik/cpuminer
185 2011-02-25 02:48:44 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
186 2011-02-25 02:49:04 <[Tycho]> Should look why it does this...
187 2011-02-25 02:52:09 <doublec> jgarzik: I have a GPU miner but it only does 9000 khash/s. Can test if its useful.
188 2011-02-25 02:52:19 <jgarzik> doublec: yes, please
189 2011-02-25 02:52:24 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: is the pool software open source?
190 2011-02-25 02:52:33 <[Tycho]> Oh, you did new pool too :)
191 2011-02-25 02:52:35 <doublec> jgarzik: ok, ready when you are
192 2011-02-25 02:54:28 <bk128> jgarzik: still need more testers?
193 2011-02-25 02:57:30 <[Noodles]> could add 300M for testing too
194 2011-02-25 02:58:10 <jgarzik> [Noodles]: if you could spare the GPU for five or ten minutes, that would be great
195 2011-02-25 02:58:14 <jgarzik> GPU(s)
196 2011-02-25 03:01:42 <Diablo-D3> ANSWER ME JGARZIK
197 2011-02-25 03:02:42 <zzuper> is the "work" component modular in the code?
198 2011-02-25 03:06:24 <Diablo-D3> zzuper: no.
199 2011-02-25 03:06:44 <zzuper> that would kick ass
200 2011-02-25 03:06:45 <zzuper> : ]
201 2011-02-25 03:07:05 <zzuper> you could use it in games and stuff
202 2011-02-25 03:07:28 <Diablo-D3> thats not really useful
203 2011-02-25 03:07:34 <zzuper> or anything
204 2011-02-25 03:07:35 <zzuper> : ]
205 2011-02-25 03:08:53 <Diablo-D3> why would you need to do that?
206 2011-02-25 03:09:08 <zzuper> as opposed to the work its doing now?
207 2011-02-25 03:09:09 <zzuper> : S
208 2011-02-25 03:09:51 <Diablo-D3> you cant make it do different work
209 2011-02-25 03:10:01 <Diablo-D3> that'd make no sense, no one else could verify your work
210 2011-02-25 03:10:44 <zzuper> well
211 2011-02-25 03:10:59 <zzuper> right now we are staring at a grey box
212 2011-02-25 03:11:27 <zzuper> doesnt really matter if youre playing a game doing somethingells
213 2011-02-25 03:12:32 <jgarzik> thanks all for the help!
214 2011-02-25 03:12:54 <Diablo-D3> zzuper: huh?
215 2011-02-25 03:13:09 <Diablo-D3> I play games while gpu mining all the time
216 2011-02-25 03:13:25 <validus> me to
217 2011-02-25 03:13:35 <zzuper> ..
218 2011-02-25 03:13:46 <zzuper> as a front for the mining i mean
219 2011-02-25 03:13:47 <zzuper> : ]
220 2011-02-25 03:13:54 <zzuper> a game could be the client
221 2011-02-25 03:14:02 <validus> and watch dxva videos, and see how much my system will run befor it crashes lol
222 2011-02-25 03:14:04 <zzuper> instead of staring at a box
223 2011-02-25 03:19:07 <knotwork> Apparently the Martians are quite interested in this cryptocurrency concept the Hackers are rumoured to use;
224 2011-02-25 03:19:31 <knotwork> however a faction among them is interested in hjow one might make mining more egalitarian
225 2011-02-25 03:19:58 <zzuper> : ]
226 2011-02-25 03:20:10 <knotwork> some way of helping out the little people whose supercomputers are merely personal supercomputers
227 2011-02-25 03:20:19 <knotwork> not corporate quantum computing farms
228 2011-02-25 03:21:36 <knotwork> They are concerned for example that the mythical/legendary powers of the Hackers might be a potential
229 2011-02-25 03:22:17 <knotwork> threat were mere Martian technology used to attempt to form an interstellar Martian cryptocurrency
230 2011-02-25 03:22:48 <knotwork> the possibly intergalactic Hacker processing power might earn way too much of the currency the
231 2011-02-25 03:23:15 <knotwork> Martians would prefer to own most of themselves or have even lesser cultures than theirs own
232 2011-02-25 03:23:44 <knotwork> tin foil might deflect Martian subspace communications but not Hacker tech :)
233 2011-02-25 03:24:45 <knotwork> (isn't there some ancient aphorism attributed to mythical planet Earth along lines of "Martian Intelligence is an Oxymoron" ? ;))
234 2011-02-25 03:25:07 <zzuper> lol
235 2011-02-25 03:25:09 <knotwork> ( s/Martian/Martial/ ? )
236 2011-02-25 03:25:35 <zzuper> screw this
237 2011-02-25 03:26:04 <knotwork> *googles that...
238 2011-02-25 03:27:27 <knotwork> hmm is he one of those anti- GUN (Galactic United Nations) types
239 2011-02-25 03:28:13 <zzuper> haha
240 2011-02-25 03:28:18 <zzuper> right out there man
241 2011-02-25 03:32:10 <knotwork> a lot of naive ideas of how to detect and deprecate massively powerful hashing farms are too easy to defeat
242 2011-02-25 03:32:40 <knotwork> might the Martians have to resort to simply using trust networks of nodes instead of allowing anyone to run a node?
243 2011-02-25 03:33:07 <knotwork> even then though some trusted node might become corrupt and sneak in some excess tech
244 2011-02-25 03:33:47 <zzuper> typical paranoia/schizo if your serious
245 2011-02-25 03:34:31 <knotwork> well put it in mythic terms of the classic mythic planet Earth or some other primitive planet lacking quantum computer farms
246 2011-02-25 03:34:51 <knotwork> a way to introduce a cryptocurrency for home users using CPUs to mine without them getting flooded out
247 2011-02-25 03:34:56 <knotwork> by GPU users
248 2011-02-25 03:35:18 <knotwork> so longer term the at home types can earn their daily coins
249 2011-02-25 03:35:47 <knotwork> possibly too apparently non-valuable for massive server farms to think worthwhile to mine
250 2011-02-25 03:35:55 <zzuper> are you actually trying to say something?
251 2011-02-25 03:35:58 <knotwork> yes
252 2011-02-25 03:36:25 <zzuper> do i need to start my mining client to find the hashkey for that?
253 2011-02-25 03:36:26 <zzuper> : ]
254 2011-02-25 03:36:44 <knotwork> I would like an alternate botcoin type currency cpu miners could get into but that somehow will
255 2011-02-25 03:36:53 <knotwork> avoid the gpu miners
256 2011-02-25 03:37:04 <zzuper> why?
257 2011-02-25 03:37:10 <zzuper> you want more bitcoins?
258 2011-02-25 03:37:14 <knotwork> maybe even to run in parralel, your cpu does this trivial "oh its just a game why even bother" currency
259 2011-02-25 03:37:25 <knotwork> while one's GPUs crunch away at "real money"
260 2011-02-25 03:37:59 <knotwork> I want at least one "game currency" that if need be can fight various legal challenges
261 2011-02-25 03:38:16 <zzuper> where are you from?
262 2011-02-25 03:38:24 <knotwork> on basis it is merely fictional currency in games not something various laws ought to apply to
263 2011-02-25 03:38:27 <zzuper> are you talking to us thru gtranslate?
264 2011-02-25 03:38:32 <knotwork> I am a Brit living in Canada
265 2011-02-25 03:38:37 <zzuper> amazing
266 2011-02-25 03:39:02 <zzuper> your primary language is english, yet we dont understand a word
267 2011-02-25 03:39:03 <zzuper> : ]
268 2011-02-25 03:39:14 <knotwork> the royal we ?
269 2011-02-25 03:39:26 <knotwork> or you havew a tapeworm ?
270 2011-02-25 03:39:43 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
271 2011-02-25 03:39:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 110280 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 599 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 20 hours, 23 minutes, and 9 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51477.87132035
272 2011-02-25 03:40:04 <zzuper> damn
273 2011-02-25 03:40:08 <zzuper> : D
274 2011-02-25 03:40:32 <zzuper> so the currency dies after a short newsbreak   -__-
275 2011-02-25 03:41:54 <TheKid> wow
276 2011-02-25 03:41:57 <TheKid> impressive difficulty
277 2011-02-25 03:42:37 <knotwork> maybe not so impressive given the specialised hardware so many are applying to it
278 2011-02-25 03:42:47 <knotwork> it would be nice to have that will just at home CPU power
279 2011-02-25 03:43:00 <knotwork> s/will/with/
280 2011-02-25 03:43:00 <zzuper> well
281 2011-02-25 03:43:21 <zzuper> you can try to compile it with optimizations for cpu
282 2011-02-25 03:44:29 <knotwork> I am implementing the Martian currency by hacking the normal client's -testnet switch
283 2011-02-25 03:45:04 <knotwork> so as to use pretty normal software other than it uses Martian net instead of testnet when -testnet switch is active
284 2011-02-25 03:45:26 <zzuper> dude
285 2011-02-25 03:45:47 <zzuper> normalize the lsd with a speedball or something
286 2011-02-25 03:46:25 <knotwork> yuck acid cut with speed isnt nice
287 2011-02-25 03:47:02 <bk128> wat
288 2011-02-25 03:51:48 <FellowTraveler> Hi all.
289 2011-02-25 03:52:29 <knotwork> hey, the open transactions person, hi
290 2011-02-25 03:53:08 <FellowTraveler> hi
291 2011-02-25 03:53:54 <knotwork> I hae been using OT's tcl api to try to build it into an eggdrop irc bot
292 2011-02-25 03:54:06 <knotwork> so far no problems
293 2011-02-25 03:54:12 <FellowTraveler> the API docs are sufficient?
294 2011-02-25 03:54:43 <knotwork> well no, not for tcl, not your docs. but tcl is simple so the generic docs of the api generator system have sufficed
295 2011-02-25 03:55:05 <knotwork> but the general docs about what the api regardless of language interface actually does is good
296 2011-02-25 03:55:18 <FellowTraveler> cool. I added tcl on a lark, too.
297 2011-02-25 03:55:29 <knotwork> a few spots it was not obvious one would want to use the get responses thing to get the replies from server
298 2011-02-25 03:55:40 <FellowTraveler> where specifically?
299 2011-02-25 03:56:03 <knotwork> but they all queued so once I did get to that call I then saw responses from many earlier returns-a-null routines
300 2011-02-25 03:56:17 <FellowTraveler> So you do have it working then, with withdrawals, deposits, etc?
301 2011-02-25 03:56:32 <FellowTraveler> yeah you'll just make sure your tcl client regularly flushes the reply buffer before sending new requests
302 2011-02-25 03:56:33 <knotwork> I cannot recall offhand as I got sidetracked from the eggbots over a week ago now maybe two
303 2011-02-25 03:57:08 <FellowTraveler> Also I recently updated all the code in the past month or two, to add balance agreement and receipt verification.
304 2011-02-25 03:57:10 <knotwork> I dont have it actually working yet no, I have only so far worked on the initialisation section of the script
305 2011-02-25 03:57:16 <FellowTraveler> So if you have any problems with it, lemme know and I'll work through it with you
306 2011-02-25 03:57:20 <knotwork> what it does when the bot initially fires up
307 2011-02-25 03:57:28 <FellowTraveler> especially in case there's something on my side.
308 2011-02-25 03:57:49 <knotwork> what I mostly chose OT for is the markets part, which of course is the part not complete yet
309 2011-02-25 03:58:01 <FellowTraveler> I'll support you on it
310 2011-02-25 03:58:06 <FellowTraveler> I can add API functions as needed
311 2011-02-25 03:58:15 <knotwork> I am curious what use-cases you had in mind when creatng basket currencies
312 2011-02-25 03:58:17 <FellowTraveler> anyone who is using OT I'll give them good support.
313 2011-02-25 03:58:33 <knotwork> as I initially came at all this looking for code to use in games I immediately thought
314 2011-02-25 03:58:54 <knotwork> aha, a spacceship basket could be so many drives so many turrets to many cargo bays so much labour
315 2011-02-25 03:59:10 <knotwork> but the catch there is you dont get the labour back when you dis-assemble the basket
316 2011-02-25 03:59:27 <knotwork> you'd instead pay more labout for the dis-assembly plus maybe the parts might have depreciated
317 2011-02-25 03:59:48 <knotwork> however it still looks useful for selling spaceship kits :)
318 2011-02-25 04:00:59 <knotwork> also the market I had been coding into tcl bots when I happened across OT worked a little differently
319 2011-02-25 04:01:22 <knotwork> as it assumed the operator of the market would take profit from spread between offers and buys
320 2011-02-25 04:01:37 <knotwork> so instead of saying oh there are some cheaper than you are willing to pay
321 2011-02-25 04:01:50 <FellowTraveler> in OT markets are so new, I could add a "operator fee" for trades
322 2011-02-25 04:02:00 <FellowTraveler> or a flat transaction fee for all transactions
323 2011-02-25 04:02:04 <knotwork> it would say aha I can profit since you offer that much while another customer is willing to sell for less
324 2011-02-25 04:02:08 <FellowTraveler> or add it to the currency contracts as configurable
325 2011-02-25 04:02:41 <knotwork> well these markets would not necessarily want the customers to be shouted at that this is how they operate
326 2011-02-25 04:02:53 <knotwork> they would just like to quietly buy cheap and sell high
327 2011-02-25 04:03:19 <knotwork> so onus is on customer not on market to not offer higher price than a seller actaully will sell for
328 2011-02-25 04:03:36 <knotwork> both ways are good, they would be competing types of market
329 2011-02-25 04:03:48 <knotwork> obviously customers would prefer a market that acts in their interest
330 2011-02-25 04:04:36 <knotwork> basicaly I suppose it migt be more sensible to think of such a mode as a customer agent or customer emulator
331 2011-02-25 04:04:40 <knotwork> instead of as a market
332 2011-02-25 04:04:57 <knotwork> it acts how the customers of the market are trying to act: to buy low sell high
333 2011-02-25 04:06:04 <knotwork> basically I have two types of bot, a market/escrow/warehouse bot that holds the goods/services
334 2011-02-25 04:06:22 <knotwork> and agent bots that players would deploy to try to make them money on the markets
335 2011-02-25 04:06:46 <knotwork> the market bot ensures the players that what they buy does exist and it is now theirs once bought
336 2011-02-25 04:07:20 <knotwork> so basically agent bots sell stuff to the market bot and buy stuff from it, it is the trusted game-operator bot
337 2011-02-25 04:07:43 <knotwork> the agent bots can brag all they want about how much they will buy or sell for,
338 2011-02-25 04:07:57 <knotwork> but its only what they have told the market bot that actually counts
339 2011-02-25 04:08:05 <knotwork> the rest is mere advertising/propaganda
340 2011-02-25 04:08:24 <lfm> too much caff man
341 2011-02-25 04:08:56 <FellowTraveler> on OT, you can open an account and write cheques on that account. In the same way you can also put up trades that go against that account
342 2011-02-25 04:09:20 <FellowTraveler> so I might put up a trade to buy bitcoin, for dollars (or any two asset types that I want)
343 2011-02-25 04:09:30 <FellowTraveler> then the market automatically processes it against all the other trades on the market.
344 2011-02-25 04:09:30 <knotwork> yes, I like OT, and of course the fact it has the tcl interface is very convenient for eggdrop
345 2011-02-25 04:09:56 <FellowTraveler> If you wanted to have bots using the client API, all managing different accounts, you can do that
346 2011-02-25 04:10:09 <FellowTraveler> or you can have a single bot that just manages a bunch of diferent trades.
347 2011-02-25 04:10:19 <FellowTraveler> you just use client API either way.
348 2011-02-25 04:10:21 <knotwork> yes I want to get that working first before worrying about making an alternate strategy for the market
349 2011-02-25 04:10:34 <FellowTraveler> I'd like to see the OT client API integrated into a bitcoin client, BTW which is why I'm here, to see if anyone is interested in that.
350 2011-02-25 04:10:47 <lolcat> OT?
351 2011-02-25 04:14:25 <knotwork> what kind of intergration are you thinking of?
352 2011-02-25 04:16:13 <ALT_> I just installed bitcoin in ubuntu and I'm wondering where the keys etc are stored so I can back them up.
353 2011-02-25 04:16:35 <lolcat> .bitocin?
354 2011-02-25 04:17:06 <ALT_> You're a genius
355 2011-02-25 04:18:51 <lfm> ya in the -configdir wallet.dat file
356 2011-02-25 04:19:01 <lolcat> as I didn't manage to spell it rigth I beg to differ
357 2011-02-25 04:19:40 <lfm> the dyslexics among us didnt notice
358 2011-02-25 04:22:04 <ALT_> Geniuses generally can't spell, the spend their time elsewhere
359 2011-02-25 04:25:32 <bk128> waht?
360 2011-02-25 04:26:05 <bk128> :)
361 2011-02-25 04:30:25 <ALT_> What's with the sad face?
362 2011-02-25 04:31:02 <zzuper> lol
363 2011-02-25 04:31:08 <zzuper> skrota ditt mos
364 2011-02-25 04:34:18 <Blitzboom> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7771470/whatisthis.png
365 2011-02-25 04:34:22 <Blitzboom> i finally want an explanation
366 2011-02-25 04:34:34 <Blitzboom> -rescan doesnt help
367 2011-02-25 04:35:31 <Blitzboom> someone help me out there, please. i hate a ui that doesnt sohw me what i really have
368 2011-02-25 04:38:19 <lfm> thats the khash/s?
369 2011-02-25 04:38:39 <Blitzboom> what? thats my address
370 2011-02-25 04:38:44 <lfm> or confirmations?
371 2011-02-25 04:38:50 <Blitzboom> yeah, confirmations
372 2011-02-25 04:38:53 <Blitzboom> 0 confirmations there
373 2011-02-25 04:39:10 <Blitzboom> its a transaction of -50.1, as you can see
374 2011-02-25 04:39:21 <lfm> ok the 10 blocks/hour on average act as confirmations for transactions
375 2011-02-25 04:39:39 <lfm> ya, you generated it?
376 2011-02-25 04:40:01 <Blitzboom> no, thats a normal transaction
377 2011-02-25 04:40:27 <Blitzboom> and it got through. but the damn client wont show that it is confirmed
378 2011-02-25 04:40:39 <Blitzboom> at least not on this wallet
379 2011-02-25 04:40:48 <lfm> oh ok, someone sent it to ya, it should become "confirmed" once we have 6 blocks more generated onthe net
380 2011-02-25 04:41:04 <Blitzboom> i know, thats not the matter
381 2011-02-25 04:41:13 <Blitzboom> the matter is it should show it
382 2011-02-25 04:41:24 <Blitzboom> and i dont know whats fucked up there
383 2011-02-25 04:41:52 <lfm> um, ok how long ago was it?
384 2011-02-25 04:42:10 <Blitzboom> its on the screen
385 2011-02-25 04:42:21 <Blitzboom> some hours ago
386 2011-02-25 04:42:32 <Blitzboom> four almost
387 2011-02-25 04:43:00 <lfm> hmm, you might try a recan (you have 0.3.20?)
388 2011-02-25 04:43:06 <lfm> rescan
389 2011-02-25 04:43:11 <Blitzboom> i tried that
390 2011-02-25 04:43:16 <Blitzboom> [06:34:24] <Blitzboom> -rescan doesnt help
391 2011-02-25 04:43:26 <Blitzboom> bitcoin.exe -rescan
392 2011-02-25 04:43:33 <Blitzboom> idk what im doing wrong
393 2011-02-25 04:45:41 <lfm> can you give me 6 chars of the address so I can try to look it up on the blockexplorer?
394 2011-02-25 04:47:31 <lfm> maybe there is a communications problem and you are not getting out on the net
395 2011-02-25 04:47:56 <Blitzboom> its 100% confirmed as i sent it to my other wallet and its confirmed there
396 2011-02-25 04:49:06 <lfm> oh, ok the sender is only having trouble? does it report the current #blocks correctly 110295?
397 2011-02-25 04:49:46 <Blitzboom> noone is having trouble
398 2011-02-25 04:49:53 <Blitzboom> the clients having trouble updating it
399 2011-02-25 04:50:03 <Blitzboom> yes, its up to date
400 2011-02-25 04:50:45 <Diablo-D3> heh
401 2011-02-25 04:50:55 <Diablo-D3> Blitzboom: you need to stick in one channel :D
402 2011-02-25 04:51:02 <Blitzboom> hehe
403 2011-02-25 04:55:09 <lfm> ok I see it as Block #110258 2011-02-25 02:01:46 . everything should be up to date. dunno why your rescan doesnt work
404 2011-02-25 04:55:24 <Diablo-D3> lfm: we're discussing this in -otc
405 2011-02-25 05:14:48 <bk128> anyone have an automatic encrypt > backup script they want to share?  looking for something I can throw in cron and sftp put somewhere
406 2011-02-25 05:30:05 <Diablo-D3> I have discovered the best webcomic ever
407 2011-02-25 05:30:16 <Diablo-D3> http://www.the-gutters.com/comic/1-lar-desouza
408 2011-02-25 05:30:20 <Diablo-D3> read it from the start
409 2011-02-25 05:30:22 <Diablo-D3> it is lol
410 2011-02-25 05:31:28 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, do you have diablominer running ?
411 2011-02-25 05:34:43 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: ....
412 2011-02-25 05:34:48 <Diablo-D3> Yes.
413 2011-02-25 05:35:11 <[Tycho]> Can you give me one share to test if it's working with my pool ?
414 2011-02-25 05:35:50 <Diablo-D3> _your_ pool? you have a pool?
415 2011-02-25 05:35:54 <[Tycho]> Yes.
416 2011-02-25 05:36:01 <Diablo-D3> is the software open source?
417 2011-02-25 05:36:18 <[Tycho]> No, why would it be ?
418 2011-02-25 05:36:35 <lfm> it would help people to trust it
419 2011-02-25 05:36:35 <[Tycho]> But it's almost java :)
420 2011-02-25 05:36:47 <Diablo-D3> damnit
421 2011-02-25 05:36:55 <Diablo-D3> I should just fucking write my own fucking pool software, fuck.
422 2011-02-25 05:37:11 <[Tycho]> How it can help with trust ? They don't know if i'm running the same version as in the source.
423 2011-02-25 05:37:34 <lfm> hiding it sure doesnt help
424 2011-02-25 05:38:01 <[Tycho]> Hiding is normal, everyone does that. And statistics is available.
425 2011-02-25 05:38:18 <lfm> ok have fun
426 2011-02-25 05:38:23 <Diablo-D3> and it'll be so awesome
427 2011-02-25 05:38:30 <Diablo-D3> it'll just become bitcoin
428 2011-02-25 05:38:43 <[Tycho]> It's not some cryptogarphy stuff to care about, it's just a pool.
429 2011-02-25 05:41:04 <Diablo-D3> RULLEE THEEE WOOORRRLLLLDDD
430 2011-02-25 05:41:15 <prax> anyone help with mybitcoin SCI tools?
431 2011-02-25 05:41:30 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: jgarzik wrote a pool server in python, and fossed it.
432 2011-02-25 05:41:38 <Diablo-D3> HE DID?!
433 2011-02-25 05:41:39 <Diablo-D3> URL NOW
434 2011-02-25 05:41:41 <Diablo-D3> DO IT
435 2011-02-25 05:41:42 <Diablo-D3> URL
436 2011-02-25 05:41:43 <Diablo-D3> NOW
437 2011-02-25 05:41:47 <Diablo-D3> (MOTHERFUCKERS)
438 2011-02-25 05:41:57 <Diablo-D3> bitches love parentheses
439 2011-02-25 05:42:22 <lfm> i thin pudinpop has a open pool server too
440 2011-02-25 05:45:20 <[Tycho]> Somehow noone runs them.
441 2011-02-25 05:45:39 <[Tycho]> It's a bit strange.
442 2011-02-25 05:46:15 <Diablo-D3> CLEARLY
443 2011-02-25 05:46:16 <Diablo-D3> ITS TIME FOR
444 2011-02-25 05:46:18 <Diablo-D3> DIABLOPOOL
445 2011-02-25 05:46:45 <bk128> only if you get pushwork going
446 2011-02-25 05:46:55 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
447 2011-02-25 05:46:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 110303 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 576 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 17 hours, 7 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51649.35073056
448 2011-02-25 05:47:01 <bk128> I'll bring you a ghash/sec
449 2011-02-25 05:47:25 <[Tycho]> bk128, why do you want push ? :)
450 2011-02-25 05:48:11 <bk128> because normal adds a lot of network overhead.  I getwork solve immediately and have to wait a sec for the next getwork . cuts my average mhash from 680 to 560
451 2011-02-25 05:48:44 <[Tycho]> 2x5870 ?
452 2011-02-25 05:49:00 <bk128> yeah, oc to 900
453 2011-02-25 05:49:19 <[Tycho]> I don't think that there should be 1 sec delay with current m0mchil's miner.
454 2011-02-25 05:49:41 <bk128> well, maybe not a full sec.  but it adds up
455 2011-02-25 05:49:47 <bk128> also using diablominer
456 2011-02-25 05:50:01 <[Tycho]> Unlucky you...
457 2011-02-25 05:50:20 <bk128> using m0 on a win 7 box with another 5870
458 2011-02-25 05:50:47 <bk128> havent tried benchmarking that one yet.  it's remote (parent's house :) )
459 2011-02-25 05:50:56 <[Tycho]> :)
460 2011-02-25 05:51:13 <[Tycho]> You are mining at slush's currently ?
461 2011-02-25 05:53:49 <bk128> pulled this one out of the pool because it was killing my hashrate
462 2011-02-25 05:54:30 <[Tycho]> How ?
463 2011-02-25 05:55:11 <bk128> like I said, network overhead.  it's a known issue.  slush said pushwork would fix it
464 2011-02-25 05:57:15 <[Tycho]> So you are mining solo ?
465 2011-02-25 06:01:49 <bk128> yeah for now.
466 2011-02-25 06:02:50 <bk128> Diablo-D3: what am I doing wrong? http://pastie.org/1605247
467 2011-02-25 06:03:17 <bk128> Diablo-D3: nevermind.  it's a problem with [Tycho] 's pool :)
468 2011-02-25 06:03:57 <[Tycho]> Somehow m0mchil's parses this fine. Should see if there is any difference...
469 2011-02-25 06:05:18 <Diablo-D3> well
470 2011-02-25 06:05:21 <Diablo-D3> its obviously not my miner.
471 2011-02-25 06:05:27 <Diablo-D3> its clearly the pool
472 2011-02-25 06:12:11 <lfm> i like 386s
473 2011-02-25 06:15:30 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py
474 2011-02-25 06:28:35 <Diablo-D3> lol one whole script
475 2011-02-25 06:29:16 <Diablo-D3> wait, thats all it takes to write a pool server?
476 2011-02-25 06:30:39 <soultcer> The pool server is just glue between the miners and a bitcoind
477 2011-02-25 06:31:12 <nanotube> yes
478 2011-02-25 06:31:21 <soultcer> Clever glue though
479 2011-02-25 06:41:48 <Diablo-D3> I should write my own pool then
480 2011-02-25 06:41:54 <Diablo-D3> and then make it extra awesome
481 2011-02-25 06:46:36 <bk128> Diablo-D3: sure
482 2011-02-25 06:46:55 <Diablo-D3> if I do it right
483 2011-02-25 06:47:03 <Diablo-D3> I can break slush's stranglehold
484 2011-02-25 06:47:09 <bk128> :)
485 2011-02-25 06:47:17 <bk128> get pushwork out first and take 1.5%
486 2011-02-25 06:47:30 <Diablo-D3> bk128: no
487 2011-02-25 06:47:39 <Diablo-D3> I have plans and schemes
488 2011-02-25 06:47:55 <bk128> like what?
489 2011-02-25 06:48:26 <Diablo-D3> cant tell you
490 2011-02-25 06:48:33 <Diablo-D3> but it'd make it much more fair.
491 2011-02-25 06:48:44 <bk128> how is it not fair now?
492 2011-02-25 06:48:56 <Diablo-D3> well, I've put 5 blocks into slush's pool
493 2011-02-25 06:49:01 <Diablo-D3> and gotten not even close to that much out
494 2011-02-25 06:49:07 <bk128> ah
495 2011-02-25 06:49:46 <bk128> I've put one block in and gotten more than that
496 2011-02-25 06:49:50 <bk128> it's all luck
497 2011-02-25 06:50:03 <bk128> isnt that the point of the pool?
498 2011-02-25 06:50:14 <Diablo-D3> I dont think luck should be part of it.
499 2011-02-25 06:50:49 <[Noodles]> point of pools is to decrease the luck-factor, isnt it?
500 2011-02-25 06:50:56 <Diablo-D3> yes.
501 2011-02-25 06:51:05 <bk128> yeah.  so if your lucky, it makes you less lucky
502 2011-02-25 06:51:15 <Diablo-D3> it makes your luck more consistent
503 2011-02-25 06:51:19 <bk128> right
504 2011-02-25 06:51:45 <bk128> lol
505 2011-02-25 06:51:51 <bk128> have fun :)
506 2011-02-25 06:51:57 <bk128> i'm going to sleep
507 2011-02-25 08:35:39 <uni4dfx> ;;bc,calc 700000
508 2011-02-25 08:35:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes, and 25 seconds
509 2011-02-25 08:35:53 <uni4dfx> ;;bc,calc 800000
510 2011-02-25 08:35:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 days, 6 hours, 22 minutes, and 22 seconds
511 2011-02-25 09:06:27 <dukeleto> ;;bc,gen 340000
512 2011-02-25 09:06:28 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 340000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 9.37966840386 BTC per day and 0.390819516828 BTC per hour.
513 2011-02-25 09:06:43 <dukeleto> ;;bc,calc 340000
514 2011-02-25 09:06:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 340000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 5 days, 7 hours, 56 minutes, and 10 seconds
515 2011-02-25 09:08:29 <genjix> MT`AwAy: hey
516 2011-02-25 09:38:21 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
517 2011-02-25 09:38:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 110335 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 544 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 30 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51607.14898525
518 2011-02-25 09:38:26 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 400000
519 2011-02-25 09:38:27 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 11.0349040045 BTC per day and 0.459787666856 BTC per hour.
520 2011-02-25 09:38:31 <JFK911> heh
521 2011-02-25 09:39:23 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 400000 52000
522 2011-02-25 09:39:24 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
523 2011-02-25 09:40:00 <gribble> Error: "bbc,gen" is not a valid command.
524 2011-02-25 09:40:00 <soultcer> ,,bbc,gen bla bla bla
525 2011-02-25 09:40:06 <gribble> I do not know about 'bb,gen', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bbe'
526 2011-02-25 09:40:06 <soultcer> ,,bb,gen bla bla bla
527 2011-02-25 09:40:09 <gribble> (bc,gen <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
528 2011-02-25 09:40:09 <soultcer> ,,bc,gen bla bla bla
529 2011-02-25 09:41:00 <JFK911> ha
530 2011-02-25 09:41:15 <JFK911> i got 25btc per day since difficulty changed to 36k
531 2011-02-25 09:42:11 <JFK911> i think someone was getting 14btc per day from pool with less
532 2011-02-25 09:48:05 <lolcat> 25btc?
533 2011-02-25 09:48:17 <lolcat> That is what I have to spend in a day
534 2011-02-25 09:48:46 <lolcat> A little more since the price is low
535 2011-02-25 09:59:35 <da2ce7> ;;bc,gen 600000
536 2011-02-25 09:59:38 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 16.5523560068 BTC per day and 0.689681500284 BTC per hour.
537 2011-02-25 10:09:34 <da2ce7> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3712.0
538 2011-02-25 10:09:43 <da2ce7> did mtgox make a public statement?
539 2011-02-25 10:10:59 <BlueMatt> I dont think so
540 2011-02-25 10:22:44 <gribble> 110348
541 2011-02-25 10:22:44 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
542 2011-02-25 10:26:24 <gribble> 51857.64190241
543 2011-02-25 10:26:24 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
544 2011-02-25 10:26:30 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
545 2011-02-25 10:26:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 110349 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 530 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51857.64190241
546 2011-02-25 10:26:34 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
547 2011-02-25 10:26:34 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stat
548 2011-02-25 10:26:36 <RBecker> ;;bc,diff
549 2011-02-25 10:26:37 <gribble> 36459.88692508
550 2011-02-25 10:48:46 <Sirius> wow, so many people here these days
551 2011-02-25 10:49:51 <andrew12> haha
552 2011-02-25 10:51:26 <rli> ;;bc,stats
553 2011-02-25 10:51:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 110353 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 526 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes, and 58 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 51886.46040471
554 2011-02-25 10:53:07 <RBecker> ;;bc,gen 48713
555 2011-02-25 10:53:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 48713 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 1.34385819693 BTC per day and 0.0559940915389 BTC per hour.
556 2011-02-25 10:53:14 <RBecker> ouch
557 2011-02-25 10:53:25 <RBecker> ;;bc,calc 48713
558 2011-02-25 10:53:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 48713 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 5 weeks, 2 days, 4 hours, 57 minutes, and 4 seconds
559 2011-02-25 10:57:57 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
560 2011-02-25 10:57:57 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1,"low":0.9007,"vol":10526,"buy":0.9722,"sell":0.9937,"last":0.9722}}
561 2011-02-25 11:36:20 <genjix> Sirius: I asked the owner of http://www.dyndy.net/ to join me.
562 2011-02-25 11:36:35 <genjix> (I'll do the talk, but in case something happens he can step in for me)
563 2011-02-25 11:37:00 <Sirius> ok
564 2011-02-25 11:37:48 <genjix> also I'm trying to organise a recording of it if possible :p
565 2011-02-25 11:38:44 <nevezen> /clear
566 2011-02-25 12:27:25 <uni4dfx> can the bot calculate the time for the upcoming difficulty?
567 2011-02-25 12:27:50 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
568 2011-02-25 12:27:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 110370 | Current Difficulty: 36459.88692508 | Next Difficulty At Block: 110879 | Next Difficulty In: 509 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 52019.06109200
569 2011-02-25 12:28:01 <sipa> it's an estimate only, of course
570 2011-02-25 12:28:24 <uni4dfx> but i wanna do ;;bc,calc for the next difficulty
571 2011-02-25 12:28:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1260000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 52019.06109200, is 2 days, 1 hour, 15 minutes, and 17 seconds
572 2011-02-25 12:28:57 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 1260000 52019.06109200
573 2011-02-25 12:29:23 <uni4dfx> ah ok
574 2011-02-25 12:29:52 <uni4dfx> thanks
575 2011-02-25 12:31:13 <uni4dfx> well darn, that's a huge difference, almost doubles the time
576 2011-02-25 12:31:41 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png
577 2011-02-25 12:34:16 <da2ce7> sipa, dose that chart auto-update?
578 2011-02-25 12:34:21 <sipa> yes
579 2011-02-25 12:34:25 <da2ce7> :D :D cool
580 2011-02-25 12:34:46 <da2ce7> I like the http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png better
581 2011-02-25 12:36:32 <uni4dfx> how much khps does 6970 get
582 2011-02-25 12:37:36 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
583 2011-02-25 12:37:45 <sipa> ah, 6970
584 2011-02-25 12:37:48 <uni4dfx> yeah :P
585 2011-02-25 12:38:01 <sipa> close to 5870 i think
586 2011-02-25 12:38:03 <sipa> ArtForz: ?
587 2011-02-25 12:38:15 <uni4dfx> has to be around 800 no?
588 2011-02-25 12:39:39 <edcba> how the fuck difficulty can climb like that lol
589 2011-02-25 12:40:09 <BlueMatt> alot of new users, alot of them...
590 2011-02-25 12:40:23 <da2ce7> hey sipa what is the exp trendline forumular for the http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png chart?
591 2011-02-25 12:40:42 <edcba> i remind the day where it was like 1000...
592 2011-02-25 12:41:12 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: what exp trendline
593 2011-02-25 12:41:21 <BlueMatt> there is no trendline there
594 2011-02-25 12:41:22 <edcba> ok let's go to mtgox see if prices follow same figure...
595 2011-02-25 12:41:49 <sipa> da2ce7: complicated :)
596 2011-02-25 12:42:19 <uni4dfx> sipa why 5870? how can you know that :)
597 2011-02-25 12:42:32 <sipa> uni4dfx: because i believe ArtForz said so :p
598 2011-02-25 12:42:40 <Keefe> uni4dfx: 6970 is the successor to 5870
599 2011-02-25 12:42:53 <Keefe> 6990 will be the successor to 5970
600 2011-02-25 12:43:33 <sipa> da2ce7: it is a maximum-likelyhood estimator for a poisson distribution with exponentially increasing lambda that is fitted through all data, with exponential decay tau factor equal to the numbers in the chart (3 days, 7 days, 14 days)
601 2011-02-25 12:43:34 <Keefe> and no the 6xxx series is not faster at mining than the 5xxx series, when you compare the right ones
602 2011-02-25 12:43:53 <Keefe> better for gaming, but not mining
603 2011-02-25 12:44:07 <Keefe> 6970 is about the same as 5870 for mining
604 2011-02-25 12:44:11 <edcba> damn bitcoin still at 1USD
605 2011-02-25 12:44:15 <edcba> what's wrong lol
606 2011-02-25 12:44:26 <sipa> still? again you mean
607 2011-02-25 12:44:27 <Keefe> i'm surprised it's not lower
608 2011-02-25 12:44:53 <sipa> da2ce7: so it corrects for the increase in network speed that happened between the sampling of the data, and the "now" point
609 2011-02-25 12:45:01 <Keefe> i still think it's going to go down alot before climbing again
610 2011-02-25 12:45:28 <da2ce7> sipa: hmm, what would be the exponential plot of best fit for that chart?  so a straght line on the http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png chart
611 2011-02-25 12:45:39 <sipa> yes
612 2011-02-25 12:45:52 <sipa> but such a fit is done for each point in the graph, using all previous data
613 2011-02-25 12:45:53 <uni4dfx> so 5970 is the fastest one at the moment?
614 2011-02-25 12:45:58 <sipa> uni4dfx: yes
615 2011-02-25 12:46:08 <Keefe> by far
616 2011-02-25 12:47:00 <Keefe> well, 5870x2 is a little faster than 5970, because 5970 is underclocked
617 2011-02-25 12:47:15 <da2ce7> but it would be something like k + base * ln(degree)
618 2011-02-25 12:47:21 <sipa> da2ce7: yeah
619 2011-02-25 12:47:37 <sipa> da2ce7: here is a bit of the math: http://sipa.be/static/bitcoin/estim_exp_math.txt
620 2011-02-25 12:47:52 <sipa> but it's very succint
621 2011-02-25 12:50:39 <da2ce7> I'm tring to work-out what the diff will be in 6 months, by going on the exp trendline... however that maths is out of my leauge :(
622 2011-02-25 12:50:58 <sipa> the problem is not the math
623 2011-02-25 12:51:18 <sipa> but the unpredictability of the data
624 2011-02-25 12:51:48 <BlueMatt> Yea block generation time is very random
625 2011-02-25 12:51:48 <sipa> this may help you more, by the way: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png
626 2011-02-25 12:52:03 <BlueMatt> We haven't gotten close to the law of large numbers kicking in yet
627 2011-02-25 12:52:17 <BlueMatt> In fact, we probably wont...ever
628 2011-02-25 12:52:22 <uni4dfx> what about 5970x2
629 2011-02-25 12:52:43 <BlueMatt> ==more expensive than and lower performance than 5870x4
630 2011-02-25 12:52:59 <da2ce7> hmm... the  http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png chart line looks very exp... one would expect exp growth of the bitcoin community
631 2011-02-25 12:53:12 <sipa> da2ce7: look at the growth.png graph
632 2011-02-25 12:53:13 <da2ce7> free-trade is exp till the resorces are consumed.
633 2011-02-25 12:53:53 <sipa> da2ce7: so, you can assume a factor of somewhere between 1.015 and 1.04 per day, giving a growth factor of between 15 and 1150 over 180 days :)
634 2011-02-25 12:54:06 <sipa> which is useless information
635 2011-02-25 12:54:32 <BlueMatt> I dont think it is as simple as that, it as alot to do with media attention and the actions of individuals as well
636 2011-02-25 12:54:38 <sipa> it may fall back to 1.005 after hitting some bound, resulting in only a factor 2.5
637 2011-02-25 12:54:50 <BlueMatt> when Art brings online all his custom chips, it increases the network by a percent to two
638 2011-02-25 12:55:15 <sipa> more like 5%
639 2011-02-25 12:55:27 <sipa> but i suppose most of them are online by now
640 2011-02-25 12:57:44 <lfm> ya so even 5% is almost invisible when we get 40% increase in 2 weeksa
641 2011-02-25 12:57:58 <sipa> indeed
642 2011-02-25 12:58:17 <BlueMatt> But if we hadnt gotten all the media attention, it would have been obvious
643 2011-02-25 12:58:28 <sipa> maybe
644 2011-02-25 12:58:49 <sipa> it would have been like 10% instead of 5% maybe
645 2011-02-25 12:59:31 <lfm> BlueMatt: the number of people buying gpus and bring them and older ones online overshadows any one person, even Art
646 2011-02-25 12:59:37 <uni4dfx> are there any pools online? i found two and they are either not accepting any more users or under maintenance
647 2011-02-25 13:00:08 <BlueMatt> uni4dfx: no that pretty much it...
648 2011-02-25 13:00:16 <BlueMatt> slush's and bitpenny
649 2011-02-25 13:00:27 <uni4dfx> lovely
650 2011-02-25 13:00:37 <lfm> uni4dfx: ya too much growth for them too, they should be back soon. there may be one or two even smaller ones still accepting but I am not sure how you find em
651 2011-02-25 13:00:44 <BlueMatt> lfm: But Id bet around 50% of that buying is between 5 or 10 people
652 2011-02-25 13:02:21 <BlueMatt> uni4dfx: when the new getwork protocol is done they should all get a bunch more capacity and be able to open up
653 2011-02-25 13:02:48 <uni4dfx> is that about to happen any time soon?
654 2011-02-25 13:02:54 <sipa> slush is working on it
655 2011-02-25 13:03:00 <sipa> i don't know how far he is
656 2011-02-25 13:03:34 <BlueMatt> They have made pretty good progress, there are a couple options but who knows how long till they decide
657 2011-02-25 13:03:51 <Keefe> uni4dfx: 5970 is already two underclocked 5870 chips on one card. by 5870x2 i meant a card with two 5870 chips not underclocked. i think the Ares is one
658 2011-02-25 13:04:03 <slush> does anybody know which hashrate has bitpenny?
659 2011-02-25 13:05:19 <da2ce7> http://hosting11.imagecross.com/image-hosting-62/9026speed_ext.png
660 2011-02-25 13:05:22 <da2ce7> lol paint
661 2011-02-25 13:05:23 <da2ce7> :P
662 2011-02-25 13:05:58 <da2ce7> 700K by May
663 2011-02-25 13:06:42 <da2ce7> 5M by Jul +/- 4M
664 2011-02-25 13:06:51 <sipa> yeah right
665 2011-02-25 13:06:56 <da2ce7> lol
666 2011-02-25 13:06:57 <da2ce7> :P
667 2011-02-25 13:06:58 <slush> diff?
668 2011-02-25 13:07:15 <BlueMatt> Id like that
669 2011-02-25 13:07:27 <da2ce7> nope, total hashrate
670 2011-02-25 13:07:35 <BlueMatt> oh
671 2011-02-25 13:07:44 <BlueMatt> I like the +/- 80%
672 2011-02-25 13:08:04 <da2ce7> BlueMatt, we are dealing with exp
673 2011-02-25 13:08:08 <lfm> slush not even sure if bitpenny is up atm
674 2011-02-25 13:08:17 <Keefe> in a couple months, bitcoin will probably be more powerful that the current largest distributed computing project, folding@home
675 2011-02-25 13:08:19 <da2ce7> the right order of magnitude means something.
676 2011-02-25 13:08:21 <BlueMatt> its only up if you pm them your ip
677 2011-02-25 13:08:26 <Keefe> than*
678 2011-02-25 13:08:33 <sipa> 1 kWh costs $0.2, let's say
679 2011-02-25 13:09:18 <da2ce7> *sipa thinks that da2ce7 is dreaming.
680 2011-02-25 13:09:40 <sipa> Art's ASICs do 200MH/s / 10W or so
681 2011-02-25 13:10:10 <UukGoblin> even 9W
682 2011-02-25 13:10:28 <sipa> so 20MH/s / W, or 72GH/h / Wh
683 2011-02-25 13:10:41 <sipa> wait
684 2011-02-25 13:10:44 <da2ce7> limit of eff is 1GHash/s @ 1W
685 2011-02-25 13:10:52 <da2ce7> (with current process tech)
686 2011-02-25 13:11:53 <sipa> 22MH/s / W -> 22MH / Ws = 80GH / Wh = 80TH / kWh
687 2011-02-25 13:12:00 <sipa> is this possible? :S
688 2011-02-25 13:12:18 <BlueMatt> DAM
689 2011-02-25 13:12:34 <da2ce7> yeah. with fully custom chips. we can do 1GHash/s @ arround 1W
690 2011-02-25 13:12:49 <da2ce7> it will be only 4M transistors.
691 2011-02-25 13:13:12 <da2ce7> so we could fit 100GHash/s for 100W on one chip
692 2011-02-25 13:13:21 <lfm> Arts chips are not fully custom they are mask programmable asic
693 2011-02-25 13:13:41 <sipa> 80TH / kWh = 18626 diff / kWh
694 2011-02-25 13:13:49 <sipa> no wait
695 2011-02-25 13:13:50 <sipa> nvm
696 2011-02-25 13:14:13 <da2ce7> lfm, I know that... but I hope that by Nov, we can have fully custom chips.
697 2011-02-25 13:14:25 <da2ce7> or well before.
698 2011-02-25 13:14:30 <eps> so i set up a cpu miner for mining.bitcoin.cz
699 2011-02-25 13:14:30 <UukGoblin> 'hope'? I hope we won't ;-]
700 2011-02-25 13:14:34 <eps> and it worked at first
701 2011-02-25 13:14:48 <eps> and now i get http 400 errrors when i try and use it
702 2011-02-25 13:15:00 <Keefe> whoever controls production of those chips will control bitcoin
703 2011-02-25 13:15:08 <lfm> eps ya it is overloaded I think
704 2011-02-25 13:15:32 <da2ce7> Keefe, mutiple brands... compitition within the market.
705 2011-02-25 13:15:33 <UukGoblin> and whoever controls bitcoin controls the spice
706 2011-02-25 13:15:39 <slush> eps: 400 isn't overload
707 2011-02-25 13:15:49 <slush> did you set up 2% fee in your profile?
708 2011-02-25 13:16:11 <eps> oh
709 2011-02-25 13:16:14 <eps> i have now
710 2011-02-25 13:16:22 <eps> is that change instant?
711 2011-02-25 13:16:28 <Keefe> da2ce7: why would anyone sell such chips instead of just keeping them to themself
712 2011-02-25 13:16:32 <slush> eps: no, there is 10min refresh timeout
713 2011-02-25 13:16:38 <slush> eps: after 10 min, it will work
714 2011-02-25 13:16:41 <eps> oh ok
715 2011-02-25 13:16:50 <eps> thanks
716 2011-02-25 13:17:02 <Keefe> i can imagine a few people designing such a chip and each taking a third of all mining production
717 2011-02-25 13:17:11 <da2ce7> well, if it is a community funded project... the bitcoin community will build and sell them themselves to protect themselves.
718 2011-02-25 13:17:20 <da2ce7> like bitcoind.
719 2011-02-25 13:17:22 <Keefe> at that point, why would any of the three sell?
720 2011-02-25 13:17:27 <UukGoblin> Keefe, I really hope price stays well above the 5970 limit ;-]
721 2011-02-25 13:18:07 <Keefe> da2ce7: sounds too altruistic
722 2011-02-25 13:18:18 <slush> Keefe: selling cards may be more profitable from side of cash flow
723 2011-02-25 13:18:22 <UukGoblin> doesn't have to be altruistic... just sell at the right price
724 2011-02-25 13:18:24 <da2ce7> ")
725 2011-02-25 13:18:38 <da2ce7> yep, you would generate and sell
726 2011-02-25 13:18:54 <da2ce7> because in the long run, annother company will make their own chips to compete.
727 2011-02-25 13:18:54 <noagendamarket> we need to do it ourselves before someone outside pisses in the tent
728 2011-02-25 13:18:56 <bxc_> selling shovels in the goldrush
729 2011-02-25 13:18:58 <slush> Keefe: You can earn million $ by selling those cards, but you need million $ to build huge righs from this chips to mine on your own. And you risk that bitcoin project collapse in meantime
730 2011-02-25 13:19:09 <Keefe> at what price? like $1mil/chip?
731 2011-02-25 13:19:28 <da2ce7> no... maybe $1000 per chip
732 2011-02-25 13:19:57 <da2ce7> by that time the bitcoin community needs to be stong enougth to withstand an attack finance by violence... eg tax
733 2011-02-25 13:21:49 <slush> btw did anybody calculation, how much "profitable" is using vladimir's mining contracts?
734 2011-02-25 13:21:58 <slush> *did anybody do calculation
735 2011-02-25 13:22:41 <da2ce7> Keefe, I'm one of the least altruistic people I know, altruism is evil.  I just want to live in a socitey where freedom wins...
736 2011-02-25 13:23:09 <jgarzik> slush: it's profitable for me
737 2011-02-25 13:26:00 <jgarzik> heck, it could probably be done for 500,000 BTC
738 2011-02-25 13:26:22 <UukGoblin> hm...
739 2011-02-25 13:26:32 <da2ce7> that isn't that hard to get together.
740 2011-02-25 13:27:02 <edcba> so vladimir don't trust in bitcoin to succeed ?
741 2011-02-25 13:27:06 <UukGoblin> yeah just change the stock client to generate 500k btc next block and assign them to the project
742 2011-02-25 13:27:14 <noagendamarket> so what are we waiting for :)
743 2011-02-25 13:27:31 <da2ce7> bitcoind MK2
744 2011-02-25 13:27:40 <slush> jgarzik: I don't understand why such secrecy about his pricing model
745 2011-02-25 13:28:06 <devon_hillard> consumer-grade GPGPU is making password hashes or even salts ineffective
746 2011-02-25 13:28:21 <jgarzik> slush: what secrecy?  his prices and hashrates are posted.
747 2011-02-25 13:28:51 <devon_hillard> what's the most cost-effective gpgpu cluster?
748 2011-02-25 13:29:17 <devon_hillard> for, say, under 1bn hashes/s configurations
749 2011-02-25 13:29:20 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, hello. Thanks for having so much debugging info in your miner - it really helps :)
750 2011-02-25 13:29:41 <lfm> devon_hillard: any 5970 is as efficient as any other, clusters dont really make it more efficient
751 2011-02-25 13:30:06 <slush> jgarzik: I just read the discussion between raulo and vladimit and I think raulo is right - it is the most profitable for vladimir himself. During the first 3 month, people pay almost all hardware, then the HW is in ownership of vladimir
752 2011-02-25 13:30:17 <slush> looks very bad deal from side of customer
753 2011-02-25 13:30:39 <devon_hillard> lfm: so cost/hash, 5970 beats everything?
754 2011-02-25 13:30:44 <edcba> slush: why don't he just use the hardware to mine itself ?
755 2011-02-25 13:30:48 <noagendamarket> people dont get the hardware and vladamir gets a gpu cluster
756 2011-02-25 13:30:56 <edcba> (except he doesn't take any risk)
757 2011-02-25 13:30:59 <lfm> devon_hillard: in the gpu realm ya
758 2011-02-25 13:31:04 <jgarzik> slush: not all customers want to run GPU farm in their basement
759 2011-02-25 13:31:22 <UukGoblin> basement
760 2011-02-25 13:31:28 <UukGoblin> that's... luxury
761 2011-02-25 13:31:33 <UukGoblin> if I had a basement...
762 2011-02-25 13:31:55 <jgarzik> slush: you pay X, receive Y return, Y > X.  zero effort playing with hardware, cooling, or other details.  what's the problem?
763 2011-02-25 13:32:33 <lfm> basement is a great place to run clusters, cooler in summer, good heat source in winter
764 2011-02-25 13:33:43 <edcba> yes running that kind of farm in winter is free
765 2011-02-25 13:33:58 <UukGoblin> nah not free
766 2011-02-25 13:34:01 <slush> jgarzik: ok, simply said - I think there is huge space for much cheaper competitor
767 2011-02-25 13:34:09 <UukGoblin> electric heaters are more effective imho
768 2011-02-25 13:34:11 <lfm> well almost, electric heat is more expensive than gas heat here
769 2011-02-25 13:34:21 <edcba> more effective than a gpu ?
770 2011-02-25 13:34:28 <UukGoblin> at generating heat
771 2011-02-25 13:34:30 <slush> but I generally don't have a problem with this type of service
772 2011-02-25 13:34:37 <edcba> is your gpu generating light ?
773 2011-02-25 13:34:45 <edcba> how else your gpu loses energy ?
774 2011-02-25 13:34:50 <lfm> UukGoblin: watts are watts, heaters or computers
775 2011-02-25 13:35:02 <jgarzik> slush: if a cheaper competitor emerges, I might buy a contract with the competitor too :)
776 2011-02-25 13:35:12 <UukGoblin> hm
777 2011-02-25 13:35:25 <jgarzik> sure it's great for vladimir.  it's great for me too.  I'm making money, and vlad is making money.  win-win.
778 2011-02-25 13:35:29 <UukGoblin> well yeah perhaps I'm stupid
779 2011-02-25 13:35:51 <edcba> the only problem with heaters vs gpu are heat repartition i guess
780 2011-02-25 13:37:12 <lfm> heaters are more dangerous at starting fires i think. maybe a heater with a fan can be better at placeing heat where its most needed
781 2011-02-25 13:37:48 <noagendamarket> I wonder if you could create a hot water service that runs gpu heating....
782 2011-02-25 13:38:22 <UukGoblin> noagendamarket, shhh! stop shouting out my business ideas!
783 2011-02-25 13:38:25 <da2ce7> lol, noagendamaket, that is short term thinking... not gpu... custom chip powered...
784 2011-02-25 13:38:40 <lfm> noagendamarket: Someone here a day or two ago claimed they were using computer to heat underfloor water heaters
785 2011-02-25 13:39:02 <lfm> Not sure if I really beleive it
786 2011-02-25 13:39:07 <da2ce7> lol, we can undercut the other water heaters...
787 2011-02-25 13:39:08 <da2ce7> :)
788 2011-02-25 13:39:16 <da2ce7> as we get the coins generated.
789 2011-02-25 13:39:33 <noagendamarket> have a shower in money lol
790 2011-02-25 13:39:45 <edcba> haha
791 2011-02-25 13:40:04 <bk128> sturle does http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3707.0
792 2011-02-25 13:40:12 <bk128> bathroom floor heater
793 2011-02-25 13:40:25 <edcba> now we have to tweak bitcoin to have a money generating problem to generate bitcoins...
794 2011-02-25 13:40:51 <da2ce7> oh: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4194/intels-codename-lightpeak-launches-as-thunderbolt
795 2011-02-25 13:40:56 <edcba> so we could save money while earning money earning bitcoins
796 2011-02-25 13:40:57 <da2ce7> did sombody say 'external miners'
797 2011-02-25 13:40:59 <da2ce7> :) :)
798 2011-02-25 13:41:03 <jgarzik> just need 50 investors @ $10,000 apiece
799 2011-02-25 13:41:07 <jgarzik> to get a bitcoin ASIC
800 2011-02-25 13:41:32 <edcba> do you accept bitcoins ?
801 2011-02-25 13:41:36 <lfm> da2ce7: ya all gpu miners are external
802 2011-02-25 13:41:45 <MacRohard> could buy a few gpus for $10k ;)
803 2011-02-25 13:41:50 <bk128> more like 10 investors @ 10,000 each
804 2011-02-25 13:42:02 <jgarzik> bk128: a real asic, not structured
805 2011-02-25 13:42:03 <da2ce7> Thunderbolt is pci-e :)
806 2011-02-25 13:42:11 <bk128> ah, yeah
807 2011-02-25 13:42:22 <bk128> still, most people wouldn't know what to do with them.
808 2011-02-25 13:42:38 <UukGoblin> + you need a design
809 2011-02-25 13:42:41 <bk128> have to buy pcb's too, do assembly, vrm's, heatsinks, PSU's
810 2011-02-25 13:42:41 <da2ce7> jgarzik, can we get cheap ass in china
811 2011-02-25 13:42:55 <jgarzik> bk128: yep
812 2011-02-25 13:43:01 <da2ce7> *assembly
813 2011-02-25 13:43:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 660000 Khps, given current difficulty of 36459.88692508 , is 2 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes, and 23 seconds
814 2011-02-25 13:43:07 <molecular> ;;bc,calc 660000
815 2011-02-25 13:43:10 <lfm> jgarzik: I cant see that happening at this time
816 2011-02-25 13:43:27 <bk128> not unless Art helps us out :)
817 2011-02-25 13:43:29 <jgarzik> edcba: sure... provided it's not 100% BTC for the entire investment.  in that case, BTC would tank as we cashed out
818 2011-02-25 13:43:48 <bk128> that kind of design work would cost as much as the chips
819 2011-02-25 13:43:53 <edcba> 1$+99999BTC :)
820 2011-02-25 13:43:58 <jgarzik> ArtForz is not the only one who can hack VHDL :)
821 2011-02-25 13:44:15 <edcba> just hire him and pay him in bitcoins
822 2011-02-25 13:44:37 <bk128> jgarzik: convince them to do a design :)
823 2011-02-25 13:44:37 <edcba> but we need competent ones
824 2011-02-25 13:44:55 <lfm> jgarzik: so have you approached those designers with bitcoin?
825 2011-02-25 13:44:56 <edcba> da2ce7: really we need more ppl accepting bitcoins
826 2011-02-25 13:44:58 <edcba> that's all
827 2011-02-25 13:45:07 <jgarzik> lfm: I've been talking yes
828 2011-02-25 13:45:57 <lfm> jgarzik: just seems like such an investment is more than the total worth of bitcoin market
829 2011-02-25 13:46:49 <da2ce7> jgarzik: hmm 1GHash/s @ 1W was on 45 nm ...
830 2011-02-25 13:46:54 <da2ce7> so we are looking more like 5W
831 2011-02-25 13:57:49 <Keefe> da2ce7: maybe $1mil to design and make masks, and $300/chip for 10ghps/chip?
832 2011-02-25 13:59:50 <da2ce7> Keefe, should aim to do a run of 10K chips or something arround that. Aim to make 2M in sale's keep 1/3 for yourself to generate.
833 2011-02-25 14:00:15 <da2ce7> pays back investment, 1M in proffit. and 1/3 of network.
834 2011-02-25 14:00:47 <Keefe> are my numbers sorta on track?
835 2011-02-25 14:01:33 <da2ce7> Keefe, i think that they are kinda on the low side... it alwasys depends on what sort of deals we can get.
836 2011-02-25 14:02:47 <da2ce7> I'd be more inclined to say, $1.2M and $200 per card.
837 2011-02-25 14:03:03 <da2ce7> (cards are cheap if made in 10K quantity.
838 2011-02-25 14:03:34 <da2ce7> we are only looking at 40M Transistors
839 2011-02-25 14:03:42 <MacRohard> by the time it's done the video cards will prolly sell for less
840 2011-02-25 14:04:18 <Keefe> MacRohard: 10ghps in gpus costs $6000
841 2011-02-25 14:04:38 <MacRohard> today maybe
842 2011-02-25 14:04:57 <da2ce7> Keefe, we need to make the chips as cheap as possible... then we can load like 5 chips on a card.
843 2011-02-25 14:05:17 <da2ce7> aim for a 100W card.
844 2011-02-25 14:05:45 <[Tycho]> PCI please :)
845 2011-02-25 14:05:57 <Keefe> :)
846 2011-02-25 14:06:08 <da2ce7> I'd say pci-e
847 2011-02-25 14:06:14 <Keefe> 100W pci card... everyone can buy
848 2011-02-25 14:06:20 <da2ce7> as that is easy to connect externaly.
849 2011-02-25 14:06:27 <da2ce7> make big racks.
850 2011-02-25 14:06:30 <[Tycho]> It would be not perfect because of glue logic, but people will have possibility to use it.
851 2011-02-25 14:06:44 <MacRohard> you could just make a standalone device
852 2011-02-25 14:06:50 <MacRohard> with a usb cable or something
853 2011-02-25 14:06:56 <Keefe> da2ce7: you can easily connect pci-e externally?
854 2011-02-25 14:07:00 <da2ce7> yep.
855 2011-02-25 14:07:19 <Keefe> probably quite expensive though
856 2011-02-25 14:07:30 <MacRohard> might be easier to put more chips on an external device where you can spread everything out more and not have the heat issues
857 2011-02-25 14:07:30 <[Tycho]> But you'll need bridges if you want not only one port.
858 2011-02-25 14:07:58 <da2ce7> pci-e is easly split... :) One 16x can drive 16 devices.
859 2011-02-25 14:08:08 <Diablo-D3> uh
860 2011-02-25 14:08:09 <Diablo-D3> bullshit
861 2011-02-25 14:08:14 <Diablo-D3> you fail at pci-e forever
862 2011-02-25 14:08:37 <Keefe> da2ce7: please explain. i'd love to see that possible
863 2011-02-25 14:08:45 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: its not.
864 2011-02-25 14:09:00 <Diablo-D3> and if ArtForz was here, he'd agree
865 2011-02-25 14:09:00 <[Tycho]> It's done by MB itself
866 2011-02-25 14:09:15 <sipa> there are convertors, right?
867 2011-02-25 14:09:20 <Diablo-D3> sipa: bridges
868 2011-02-25 14:09:24 <sipa> ok
869 2011-02-25 14:09:29 <Diablo-D3> but then you didnt _split_ anything
870 2011-02-25 14:09:30 <[Tycho]> When you place lots of cards in your MB, then there are no x16 slots anymore
871 2011-02-25 14:09:38 <Diablo-D3> its still x lanes going to a single device
872 2011-02-25 14:09:43 <sipa> oh
873 2011-02-25 14:15:40 <jgarzik> ;;seen gavinandresen
874 2011-02-25 14:15:41 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 23 hours, 38 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> yeah, but customer support would still tell you to reinstall windows :-)
875 2011-02-25 14:17:56 <da2ce7> maybe just useing something as simple a single chip ARM and NIC, connect it with lan.
876 2011-02-25 14:18:09 <da2ce7> with a minimal linux rom.
877 2011-02-25 14:18:22 <da2ce7> that would only be like $10
878 2011-02-25 14:18:42 <sipa> ok, 1GH/s, 5W
879 2011-02-25 14:19:22 <sipa> if you have the whole network with that, you'd do 600G hashes per block
880 2011-02-25 14:19:58 <sipa> that's a difficulty of 139.7
881 2011-02-25 14:25:34 <da2ce7> sleeptime
882 2011-02-25 14:25:41 <da2ce7> Goodnight ppls.
883 2011-02-25 14:25:51 <da2ce7> hope your dreams, are of all things mining.
884 2011-02-25 14:27:20 <sipa> at 7200BTC/day, or $7200/day, and 120 kWh = $24/day
885 2011-02-25 14:27:39 <sipa> so the network could sustain 300 such devices at 0 profit
886 2011-02-25 14:28:10 <sipa> oh
887 2011-02-25 14:28:44 <sipa> 0.12 kWh, or $0.24/day, or 300000 such devices
888 2011-02-25 14:28:52 <sipa> -> up to 300TH/s :)
889 2011-02-25 14:32:52 <uni4dfx> gahh, i wish there was a working pool somewhere ;_;
890 2011-02-25 14:33:16 <Kiba> hey
891 2011-02-25 14:33:18 <Kiba> folks
892 2011-02-25 14:34:39 <jgarzik> da2ce7: I think ArtForz has it right...   FPGA controller + N chips + USB
893 2011-02-25 14:35:07 <Keefe> i thought he was going to do ethernet?
894 2011-02-25 14:35:24 <jgarzik> all you need is simple USB, or even serial
895 2011-02-25 14:36:01 <Keefe> usb would be awesome
896 2011-02-25 14:36:20 <Keefe> most computers already have a few spare usb ports, and usb hubs are cheap
897 2011-02-25 14:36:37 <jav__> when I have a raw transaction.. how can I see what the from and to addresses are? how do I calculate that from this scriptSig stuff? can I read up on that somewhere?
898 2011-02-25 14:39:53 <jav__> oh wait.. that's just in hex, instead of the usual base58?