1 2011-03-02 00:00:00 <luke-jr> how sensible is that?
  2 2011-03-02 00:01:18 <xelister> ok tonal is better for cutting values in half
  3 2011-03-02 00:01:23 <magnetron> why not use 0,1,...,9,A,..,F like basically any other base-16 software available? do you have a religious affliction for the works of Nystr??m?
  4 2011-03-02 00:01:35 <xelister> but most trade is like, the price is X.  and then you want to calculate X+Y
  5 2011-03-02 00:01:38 <xelister> or X-Y
  6 2011-03-02 00:02:11 <jrabbit> luke-jr: http://bavardage.github.com/Kiloseconds/
  7 2011-03-02 00:02:13 <jrabbit> that one
  8 2011-03-02 00:02:23 <luke-jr> xelister: very often, trade is "2 for 25 cents"
  9 2011-03-02 00:02:25 <luke-jr> xelister: I wonder why
 10 2011-03-02 00:02:28 <jrabbit> I like that definition
 11 2011-03-02 00:02:54 <luke-jr> jrabbit: your project is my enemy :P
 12 2011-03-02 00:03:14 <jrabbit> luke-jr: b/c 1 ks =~15 min
 13 2011-03-02 00:03:24 <jrabbit> it makes a good temporal time feel
 14 2011-03-02 00:03:34 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, how you like me now
 15 2011-03-02 00:03:46 <xelister> luke-jr: or 3 for 25 centw
 16 2011-03-02 00:03:49 <xelister> luke-jr: or 7 for 25 cents
 17 2011-03-02 00:03:53 <luke-jr> jrabbit: 1 Tim is 1.5 hours
 18 2011-03-02 00:03:54 <xelister> and how here tonal helps
 19 2011-03-02 00:04:04 <magnetron> jrabbit: hey try calculating any physical quantities using another time measurement than s, ks etc etc
 20 2011-03-02 00:04:11 <luke-jr> jrabbit: 1 Timton is ~5 minutes
 21 2011-03-02 00:04:44 <luke-jr> there are 1000 timmills per day
 22 2011-03-02 00:05:04 <magnetron> can we please talk about bitcoin and its development instead if CONSTANTLY trying to use it as some sort of platform for a long-forgotten script for base-16?
 23 2011-03-02 00:05:20 <nanotube> #bitcoin-tonal , anyone? :)
 24 2011-03-02 00:05:21 <luke-jr> magnetron: go ahead. I didn't exactly bring it up
 25 2011-03-02 00:05:24 <luke-jr> nanotube: #tonal
 26 2011-03-02 00:05:27 <nanotube> heh
 27 2011-03-02 00:05:44 <quellhorst> damn, what are you guys doing that have a bunch of mining rigs for heat?
 28 2011-03-02 00:06:01 <magnetron> quellhorst: live on iceland
 29 2011-03-02 00:06:03 <xelister> quellhorst: inviting your girlfriend over for romantic night at fireplace
 30 2011-03-02 00:06:04 <luke-jr> too hot here. :p
 31 2011-03-02 00:06:06 <quellhorst> haha
 32 2011-03-02 00:06:22 <phantomcircuit> xelister, girlfriend, HEY GUYS WE GOT A COMEDIAN HERE
 33 2011-03-02 00:06:25 <TheKid> My room is far too warm, as I just realized ;)
 34 2011-03-02 00:06:26 <quellhorst> I'm gonna be happy when it hits the 40s tonight
 35 2011-03-02 00:06:32 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: lol
 36 2011-03-02 00:07:07 <quellhorst> and if your GF is a gamer, she will be pissed that you are wasting all these vid cards on making the place hot
 37 2011-03-02 00:07:27 <luke-jr> Here, the low is 2Tp tonight (55F or 12C)
 38 2011-03-02 00:08:16 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, stop doing that >:|
 39 2011-03-02 00:08:33 <magnetron> luke-jr: you're bringing it up
 40 2011-03-02 00:08:36 <phantomcircuit> the mish mash of var_uint and fixed length uints in the network protocol is maddening
 41 2011-03-02 00:08:48 <luke-jr> magnetron: I'm just taking about weather
 42 2011-03-02 00:09:06 <luke-jr> it's not like the rest of the world is even united on F or C anyway
 43 2011-03-02 00:09:24 <phantomcircuit> lol the UK is hilarious
 44 2011-03-02 00:09:31 <phantomcircuit> if it's hot the temp is reported in F
 45 2011-03-02 00:09:33 <phantomcircuit> if it's cold C
 46 2011-03-02 00:09:35 <phantomcircuit> WTF GUYS
 47 2011-03-02 00:09:38 <luke-jr> wtf really
 48 2011-03-02 00:09:40 <luke-jr> G
 49 2011-03-02 00:09:40 <phantomcircuit> yes
 50 2011-03-02 00:09:44 <phantomcircuit> it's hilarious
 51 2011-03-02 00:09:47 <luke-jr> that's total insanity
 52 2011-03-02 00:09:52 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: lolo
 53 2011-03-02 00:10:14 <luke-jr> where is the crossover point?
 54 2011-03-02 00:10:26 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: maybe when its hot is when all the americans are visiting?
 55 2011-03-02 00:10:40 <magnetron> phantomcircuit: they must think snow is outlandish. they get like a shock every year when the snow falls, "how could this happen here" and "we must cancel everything"
 56 2011-03-02 00:11:07 <magnetron> phantomcircuit: the underground grinds to a halt and people skip work
 57 2011-03-02 00:11:24 <phantomcircuit> quellhorst, it's because when it's hot F sounds higher, when it's cold C sounds coler
 58 2011-03-02 00:11:27 <phantomcircuit> colder*
 59 2011-03-02 00:11:30 <phantomcircuit> ie
 60 2011-03-02 00:11:33 <phantomcircuit> they're fucking retarded
 61 2011-03-02 00:11:47 <magnetron> i like how most americans don't even know what units they use
 62 2011-03-02 00:11:53 <phantomcircuit> magnetron, the london underground stops for nothing
 63 2011-03-02 00:12:02 <magnetron> a majority think they use imperial units
 64 2011-03-02 00:12:19 <phantomcircuit> suicides are cleared in like 10 minutes
 65 2011-03-02 00:12:20 <phantomcircuit> lol
 66 2011-03-02 00:13:12 <phantomcircuit> i should add sanity checking to some of this code
 67 2011-03-02 00:13:14 <phantomcircuit> MEH
 68 2011-03-02 00:13:23 <magnetron> sanity is optional
 69 2011-03-02 00:13:25 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, you should add sanity checking to some of this code
 70 2011-03-02 00:13:33 <quellhorst> phantomcircuit: i know that, but just trying to come up with a rational excuse for them.
 71 2011-03-02 00:13:36 <hazek> lol I just wrote an email to a U.S. PR company that made this promo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM56c8Cpll4 among others the rest on that channel and asked them if they'd be willing to make a video for bitcoins
 72 2011-03-02 00:13:40 <hazek> I wonder if they'll get back to me
 73 2011-03-02 00:13:43 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: I can review it maybe tomorrow
 74 2011-03-02 00:13:46 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: how long is it
 75 2011-03-02 00:14:36 <jrabbit> I'm not well acquainted with bitcoin internals though so it'll mostly be idiom checking
 76 2011-03-02 00:15:28 <magnetron> how big is the keysize of private keys
 77 2011-03-02 00:15:43 <magnetron> for a bitcoin address
 78 2011-03-02 00:16:21 <phantomcircuit> 1470 loc
 79 2011-03-02 00:17:07 <phantomcircuit> im a drucken coding machine
 80 2011-03-02 00:17:16 <Diablo-D3> arent we all?
 81 2011-03-02 00:17:37 <phantomcircuit> we? yes
 82 2011-03-02 00:17:38 <magnetron> a programmer is a machine that turns beer into source code
 83 2011-03-02 00:17:40 <phantomcircuit> most people? lol no
 84 2011-03-02 00:18:34 <Diablo-D3> we arent really most people
 85 2011-03-02 00:18:38 <Diablo-D3> I sure as hell aint
 86 2011-03-02 00:18:45 <Diablo-D3> I sort of trancended programming at some point
 87 2011-03-02 00:19:21 <Netsniper> now you just *think* and the computer *does*
 88 2011-03-02 00:19:55 <Diablo-D3> no, now I just threaten people's lives and now other people do
 89 2011-03-02 00:19:55 <magnetron> Netsniper: he got one of those newfangled bluetooth implants
 90 2011-03-02 00:20:32 <phantomcircuit> it's amazing how much easier this is w/o booze
 91 2011-03-02 00:25:26 <phantomcircuit> neat
 92 2011-03-02 00:25:32 <phantomcircuit> i now support the network protocol completely
 93 2011-03-02 00:25:36 <phantomcircuit> (except ip trans)
 94 2011-03-02 00:25:45 <phantomcircuit> now ill add sanity checking
 95 2011-03-02 00:29:41 <phantomcircuit> added
 96 2011-03-02 00:31:37 <xelister> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"><body><a href="mailto:foo&lt;foo@gmail.com&gt;">Foo &lt;foo@gmail.com&gt;</a></body>
 97 2011-03-02 00:31:46 <xelister> this is what kmial pastes when I copy/paste an email address foo@gmail.com.
 98 2011-03-02 00:31:50 <xelister> * kmail
 99 2011-03-02 00:32:16 <luke-jr> xelister: lol
100 2011-03-02 00:32:16 <xelister> select email in a text, paste it to another TEXT application, this is what you get.  what the
101 2011-03-02 00:32:35 <xelister> oh oh they forgot <title> and charset there.
102 2011-03-02 00:32:41 <luke-jr> optional
103 2011-03-02 00:32:46 <xelister> title is mendatory
104 2011-03-02 00:32:51 <luke-jr> in XHTML 1.0?
105 2011-03-02 00:32:54 <xelister> and <html>
106 2011-03-02 00:32:55 <xelister> I think
107 2011-03-02 00:33:03 <luke-jr> <html> is
108 2011-03-02 00:33:06 <luke-jr> report a bug
109 2011-03-02 00:33:11 <luke-jr> it shouldn't be pasting that as plaintext
110 2011-03-02 00:33:11 <xelister> totally
111 2011-03-02 00:33:25 <xelister> the bug is that they missed title hehe
112 2011-03-02 00:33:38 <luke-jr> no, the bug is in the clipboard handling
113 2011-03-02 00:33:42 <xelister> =)
114 2011-03-02 00:33:45 <luke-jr> or both&
115 2011-03-02 00:34:03 <luke-jr> actually, the bug in this case is that it has a header and body tag :P
116 2011-03-02 00:34:10 <luke-jr> since you copied an XML fragment
117 2011-03-02 00:35:50 <AAA_awright> It's a valid fragment
118 2011-03-02 00:36:20 <AAA_awright> It contains a subset of a valid document
119 2011-03-02 00:36:36 <[Tycho]> What a generous fee... http://blockexplorer.com/tx/10fea52170a3e552a7f125e6a3458d93feeefb1105d4fd29562c103bffe61de8
120 2011-03-02 00:36:48 <AAA_awright> Actually it isn't, no XHTML namespace
121 2011-03-02 00:36:57 <AAA_awright> The idea is you paste it into another XML document with the same namespace (which they left out) and it combines the two
122 2011-03-02 00:37:06 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that's the Faucet
123 2011-03-02 00:37:20 <AAA_awright> But looks like it's grabbing the wrong clipboard, the formatted one instead of the plain text one?
124 2011-03-02 00:37:22 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: my fee would be slightly more than that, or less, depending on block size
125 2011-03-02 00:37:47 <[Tycho]> Oh, so faucet is cheating :)
126 2011-03-02 00:37:53 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: dunno, it happens whether I paste into Konversation or KWrite, so it sounds like the copyer is at fault
127 2011-03-02 00:38:02 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: not at all, perfectly fair
128 2011-03-02 00:38:12 <[Tycho]> Yes.
129 2011-03-02 00:38:14 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it just won't get premium space in my blocks
130 2011-03-02 00:38:18 <AAA_awright> Quassel, a Qt app, does that to me too, when I copy from my input line to OpenOffice
131 2011-03-02 00:38:23 <[Tycho]> Wow, it works.
132 2011-03-02 00:38:24 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: without a fee, no tx will get ANY space in my blocks
133 2011-03-02 00:38:32 <AAA_awright> Except it's wrapping around CSS information >_>
134 2011-03-02 00:39:09 <luke-jr> you have a pool?
135 2011-03-02 00:39:17 <[Tycho]> Yes, of course.
136 2011-03-02 00:39:22 <[Tycho]> How greedy of you
137 2011-03-02 00:39:56 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: my fees are quite reasonable IMO
138 2011-03-02 00:40:06 <AAA_awright> I wonder if there's some way to predict the likelyhood a payment will be accepted in t time, as to expedite payments
139 2011-03-02 00:40:25 <[Tycho]> One of best bitcoin features is free txs :)
140 2011-03-02 00:40:31 <AAA_awright> Computed based on the current processing power of honest nodes, if there was some way to calculate it
141 2011-03-02 00:40:33 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: free tx is temporary
142 2011-03-02 00:40:50 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: Says who
143 2011-03-02 00:41:17 <luke-jr> the network.
144 2011-03-02 00:41:36 <luke-jr> free tx are already getting backlogged
145 2011-03-02 00:41:56 <ArtForz> currently, no
146 2011-03-02 00:42:06 <luke-jr> ArtForz: oh, we caught up?
147 2011-03-02 00:42:17 <ArtForz> the 731-tx block took care of the backlog
148 2011-03-02 00:42:31 <luke-jr> did someone do that intentionally?
149 2011-03-02 00:42:40 <phantomcircuit> so someone generated a block with looser rules?
150 2011-03-02 00:42:43 <ArtForz> yep
151 2011-03-02 00:42:51 <luke-jr> ArtForz: you?
152 2011-03-02 00:42:53 <ArtForz> nope
153 2011-03-02 00:42:59 <ArtForz> probably someone with 0.3.14 or older
154 2011-03-02 00:43:08 <AAA_awright> It's misleading to say it's "temporary" when in fact it's just less likely with respect to some property varying with time
155 2011-03-02 00:43:15 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, lol it's pretty clean actually
156 2011-03-02 00:43:34 <phantomcircuit> AAA_awright, they're effectively temporary
157 2011-03-02 00:43:46 <phantomcircuit> at somepoint you'll be going backwards in line with free txs
158 2011-03-02 00:43:53 <phantomcircuit> because it's an ordered list, not a line
159 2011-03-02 00:44:12 <ArtForz> it kinda is a line
160 2011-03-02 00:44:20 <AAA_awright> That's a bit harmful for micropayments isn't it?
161 2011-03-02 00:44:30 <AAA_awright> That's Bitcoin's only real strength
162 2011-03-02 00:44:32 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: depends on the fee schedule
163 2011-03-02 00:44:46 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: I offer lower fees than most
164 2011-03-02 00:45:00 <luke-jr> but I only get a block every 10 days (now)
165 2011-03-02 00:45:01 <AAA_awright> Also, machine-to-machine payments
166 2011-03-02 00:45:21 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: there are no machine-to-machine payments&
167 2011-03-02 00:46:01 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: You know what I mean feel free to correct the term
168 2011-03-02 00:46:14 <luke-jr> no, I don't know what you mean&
169 2011-03-02 00:46:15 <AAA_awright> What I use to send coins between my computers on the local network
170 2011-03-02 00:46:29 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: there is no way to do that AFAIK
171 2011-03-02 00:47:25 <necrodearia> hummmmmm, i wonder if I should post briefly about witcoin at reddit...   and if so, what content... I imagine something very simple, maybe 2-3 words, nothing more
172 2011-03-02 00:47:43 <necrodearia> what seems like a catchy and very short statement?
173 2011-03-02 00:47:51 <AAA_awright> Is it just me or does the client take forever to load
174 2011-03-02 00:47:53 <necrodearia> previously someone has suggested creddit
175 2011-03-02 00:48:50 <quellhorst> luke-jr: lower fees for what?
176 2011-03-02 00:49:05 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: It's a misleading term but https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/IP_Transactions
177 2011-03-02 00:49:48 <AAA_awright> Which appears to work even though the block explorer doesn't seem to report it, idk what the difference is
178 2011-03-02 00:49:56 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
179 2011-03-02 00:49:56 <JFK911> ;;bc,stat
180 2011-03-02 00:49:58 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
181 2011-03-02 00:50:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111287 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1608 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 55 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59295.63949635
182 2011-03-02 00:50:09 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, what was the number of that block ?
183 2011-03-02 00:50:19 <luke-jr> quellhorst: for transactions smaller than 0.01 BTC, or to fill a block, or with non-standard code
184 2011-03-02 00:51:12 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: that isn't really useful
185 2011-03-02 00:51:18 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: and IIRC is being removed
186 2011-03-02 00:51:40 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/b/111264
187 2011-03-02 00:51:48 <quellhorst> kinda annoying not getting any bitcoins after having this shit running for hours now
188 2011-03-02 00:52:14 <ArtForz> looks like it was mostly faucet transactions clogging up
189 2011-03-02 00:52:15 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: But now you know what I'm talking about, and if it's not useful it's because it's implemented stupidly
190 2011-03-02 00:53:18 <Necr0s> quellhorst, I had a 14 day dry spell last month.
191 2011-03-02 00:53:32 <Necr0s> Then hit twice 3 hrs apart.
192 2011-03-02 00:53:33 <AAA_awright> It *should* work with Hostnames (I haven't tried) but "IP Transactions" implies it doesn't, plus there's no signature that will verify the authenticity of the connection, which is trivial to implement if you know what you're doing, and given the heavy use of crypto that Bitcoin uses I would say people know what they're doing
193 2011-03-02 00:53:41 <quellhorst> Necr0s: nice
194 2011-03-02 00:53:59 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: no, it's impossible to verify the connection's authenticity short of something like SSL
195 2011-03-02 00:54:14 <quellhorst> you guys keep your cases closed up or open one side?
196 2011-03-02 00:54:19 <luke-jr> and there's little benefit over using the p2p network anyway
197 2011-03-02 00:54:20 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: SSH does it, it's not impossible
198 2011-03-02 00:54:25 <luke-jr> quellhorst: open usually
199 2011-03-02 00:54:39 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: SSH, as used by most people, is insecure.
200 2011-03-02 00:54:48 <Necr0s> ssh uses the fingerprint.
201 2011-03-02 00:54:51 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, DEM HOST CACHES
202 2011-03-02 00:54:54 <Necr0s> Which no one reads or verifies.
203 2011-03-02 00:55:02 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: to securely use SSH, you need to verify the host key is correct the first time you connect
204 2011-03-02 00:55:05 <phantomcircuit> Necr0s, i do :(
205 2011-03-02 00:55:07 <xelister> luke-jr: how is ssh insecure
206 2011-03-02 00:55:08 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: Right
207 2011-03-02 00:55:21 <xelister> you should verify host fingerprint by hand
208 2011-03-02 00:55:29 <phantomcircuit> xelister, most people dont
209 2011-03-02 00:55:34 <Necr0s> Ppl don't.
210 2011-03-02 00:55:36 <Necr0s> even non-nubs.
211 2011-03-02 00:55:36 <phantomcircuit> i pwned my unix admin prof with that
212 2011-03-02 00:55:36 <xelister> well, winnoobs dont
213 2011-03-02 00:55:47 <xelister> phantomcircuit: lol, how did you got in position for mitm?
214 2011-03-02 00:55:55 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: how are your theoretical IP transactions any better than a HTTPS URI that generates an address and redirects to a bitcoin: URI?
215 2011-03-02 00:55:58 <phantomcircuit> xelister, wifi race condition
216 2011-03-02 00:56:04 <xelister> phantomcircuit: yeez
217 2011-03-02 00:56:13 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: I've sugguested that you must supply the connection fingerprint as a preresiquite of starting the connection
218 2011-03-02 00:56:15 <phantomcircuit> xelister, it's pretty easy actually
219 2011-03-02 00:56:30 <phantomcircuit> you just send your packets faster than the remote end can
220 2011-03-02 00:56:33 <phantomcircuit> which is trivial
221 2011-03-02 00:56:37 <phantomcircuit> because you're right there
222 2011-03-02 00:56:39 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: You have to generate that bitcoin: URI
223 2011-03-02 00:56:47 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: so? IP tx do too
224 2011-03-02 00:57:12 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: You have to generate that bitcoin: URI beforehand, without an interactive connection with the client
225 2011-03-02 00:57:13 <phantomcircuit> xelister, was hilarious though
226 2011-03-02 00:57:24 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: no, you don't.
227 2011-03-02 00:57:38 <AAA_awright> With an interactive connection you could negotiate paramaters, interactively, and in the future possibly have additional verification that both clients have the means to pay
228 2011-03-02 00:57:43 <AAA_awright> or whatever
229 2011-03-02 00:57:44 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: you just have a PHP script on the webserver that generates it
230 2011-03-02 00:58:12 <luke-jr> if you want, you can send a HTML page that asks details before redirecting
231 2011-03-02 00:58:13 <AAA_awright> luke-jr: Which is a problem for lots of use cases
232 2011-03-02 00:58:32 <AAA_awright> Again you have to generate the address, and associated private key and all, before you know you're using it
233 2011-03-02 00:58:45 <luke-jr> so?
234 2011-03-02 00:58:51 <luke-jr> JSON-RPC getnewaddress in the PHP script
235 2011-03-02 00:59:01 <AAA_awright> Give at least one second of thought to the problems that poses
236 2011-03-02 00:59:34 <AAA_awright> And still, it's non-interactive
237 2011-03-02 00:59:56 <phantomcircuit> xelister, http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/fakeroute/
238 2011-03-02 00:59:59 <phantomcircuit> xelister, lol
239 2011-03-02 01:00:20 <xelister> heh
240 2011-03-02 01:00:28 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 530000
241 2011-03-02 01:00:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 530000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 5 days, 5 hours, 8 minutes, and 7 seconds
242 2011-03-02 01:00:32 <luke-jr> AAA_awright: IP tx is non-interactive, but HTTPS doesn't have to be\n293001
243 2011-03-02 01:00:38 <xelister> WHAT
244 2011-03-02 01:00:40 <xelister> FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
245 2011-03-02 01:00:49 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 600000
246 2011-03-02 01:00:55 <xelister> ;; bc,gen 600000
247 2011-03-02 01:00:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 4 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes, and 10 seconds
248 2011-03-02 01:00:57 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 10.8561692481 BTC per day and 0.452340385337 BTC per hour.
249 2011-03-02 01:00:58 <xelister> ;; bc,diff
250 2011-03-02 01:00:59 <gribble> 55590.23763914
251 2011-03-02 01:01:03 <quellhorst> ;; bc,calc 624000
252 2011-03-02 01:01:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 624000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 4 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes, and 5 seconds
253 2011-03-02 01:01:04 <xelister> ;; bc,stats
254 2011-03-02 01:01:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111290 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1605 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 27 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59477.93601994
255 2011-03-02 01:01:35 <quellhorst> haha, next difficulty will suck ass
256 2011-03-02 01:01:47 <xelister> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
257 2011-03-02 01:01:48 <quellhorst> will it even be worth the electricity
258 2011-03-02 01:02:08 <ArtForz> wtf are you talking about?
259 2011-03-02 01:02:11 <luke-jr> next diff isn't that much higher
260 2011-03-02 01:02:46 <xelister> ;; bc,calc 177000
261 2011-03-02 01:02:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 177000 Khps, given current difficulty of 55590.23763914 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 56 seconds
262 2011-03-02 01:02:52 <xelister> that it is not even funny
263 2011-03-02 01:03:16 <luke-jr> that's *now*
264 2011-03-02 01:03:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 177000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 59477, is 2 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 50 seconds
265 2011-03-02 01:03:22 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 177000 59477
266 2011-03-02 01:03:29 <luke-jr> next diff only adds 1 more day
267 2011-03-02 01:03:42 <xelister> this difficulty
268 2011-03-02 01:03:46 <gasteve> ;;bc,stats
269 2011-03-02 01:03:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111290 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1605 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59477.93601994
270 2011-03-02 01:03:52 <xelister> this difficulty
271 2011-03-02 01:03:54 <xelister> takes all the dongs ever sucked by Ati devel team
272 2011-03-02 01:03:58 <xelister> and sucks them all at once
273 2011-03-02 01:04:07 <gasteve> and that's a lot of dongs ;)
274 2011-03-02 01:04:11 <xelister> indeed
275 2011-03-02 01:04:12 <[Noodles]> as if lower difficulty would be a good thing
276 2011-03-02 01:04:16 <ArtForz> I like it.
277 2011-03-02 01:04:30 <gasteve> wow...so the estimate is not down to 59k
278 2011-03-02 01:04:35 <gasteve> *now
279 2011-03-02 01:04:46 <Syke> that's like a 10% increase. that's nothing!
280 2011-03-02 01:04:47 <xelister> ArtForz: at what diff mining will stop being profitable for you enough to buy new ASIC
281 2011-03-02 01:04:50 <Blitzboom> what [Noodles] said
282 2011-03-02 01:04:56 <Blitzboom> higher difficulty is healthy
283 2011-03-02 01:05:04 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,tats
284 2011-03-02 01:05:05 <gribble> Error: "bc,tats" is not a valid command.
285 2011-03-02 01:05:06 <gasteve> that's amazing compared to the estimate being reported a few days ago
286 2011-03-02 01:05:09 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
287 2011-03-02 01:05:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111290 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1605 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59477.93601994
288 2011-03-02 01:05:27 <Blitzboom> i mean, higher difficulty is an indicator of a healthy progressing network
289 2011-03-02 01:05:37 <gasteve> (but yeah, higher difficulty should be viewed as a good thing, not bad)
290 2011-03-02 01:05:49 <ArtForz> xelister: diff/$ needs to roughly *2.5 to make asic more interesting than just adding more GPUs
291 2011-03-02 01:05:53 <[Tycho]> Wow, i received second donation ! :)
292 2011-03-02 01:06:01 <ArtForz> so about diff 150k at current market prices
293 2011-03-02 01:06:01 <da2ce7> the bitcoin price needs to go up lots for the diff to go up heaps again
294 2011-03-02 01:06:04 <Blitzboom> congrats
295 2011-03-02 01:06:09 <[Tycho]> 0.02 this time. Someone just loves my work.
296 2011-03-02 01:06:16 <Blitzboom> haha
297 2011-03-02 01:07:45 <ArtForz> something fucked up on nollvoid.org statistix again...
298 2011-03-02 01:07:46 <zaroth> hey guys, the linux binary depends on libpng12.so.0 ...
299 2011-03-02 01:07:51 <ArtForz> *nullvoid.org
300 2011-03-02 01:08:03 <zaroth> I had to pull it out from some old fedora .rpm ;-)
301 2011-03-02 01:08:06 <gasteve> I just wish a squirrel could get a nut...been hashing at 610Mhash for a week now and still nut'in
302 2011-03-02 01:08:28 <[Tycho]> gasteve, try pools :)
303 2011-03-02 01:08:46 <gasteve> I know, I know...but somehow just not as satisfying as solo
304 2011-03-02 01:09:12 <[Tycho]> Is your "nut'in" more satisfying ? :)
305 2011-03-02 01:10:06 <gasteve> you're right...I think I will try pools...by starting my own ;)
306 2011-03-02 01:10:23 <luke-jr> or maybe I should setup a pool
307 2011-03-02 01:10:34 <luke-jr> would anyone join a pool if I set one up with my modified policies?
308 2011-03-02 01:10:40 <da2ce7> eveyman and his dog has a mining rig now
309 2011-03-02 01:10:43 <TheKid> what are your modified policies?
310 2011-03-02 01:10:50 <gasteve> what's that expression...gambling is a great way to get rich...if you own the casino
311 2011-03-02 01:10:51 <TheKid> 1. must use tonal client?
312 2011-03-02 01:11:16 <[Tycho]> gasteve, yes, so i did it :)
313 2011-03-02 01:11:20 <da2ce7> what is up with all this tonal stuff???
314 2011-03-02 01:11:29 <TheKid> da2ce7: we like to poke fun at him about it ;)
315 2011-03-02 01:11:38 <luke-jr> TheKid: it requires fees on tx, but at a lower rate than the normal client
316 2011-03-02 01:11:46 <gasteve> actually, I had been in slush's pool before I got a GPU
317 2011-03-02 01:11:47 <luke-jr> da2ce7: why do you bring it up?
318 2011-03-02 01:11:54 <luke-jr> oh, TheKid did
319 2011-03-02 01:12:02 <luke-jr> TheKid: no, miners are pretty rep-neutral
320 2011-03-02 01:12:10 <gasteve> but over time, I think solo should pay off better...as long as you have patience
321 2011-03-02 01:12:36 <luke-jr> gasteve: solo definitely pays off better
322 2011-03-02 01:12:49 <luke-jr> da2ce7: why is it important for everything to be in decimal?
323 2011-03-02 01:13:21 <Cusipzzz> it is a joke..like a klingon language client. a sideshow.
324 2011-03-02 01:13:22 <gasteve> I think the key for solo is just to have enough hardware that you aren't waiting like 30 days on average for a payout
325 2011-03-02 01:13:24 <da2ce7> luke-jr, it isn't.
326 2011-03-02 01:13:51 <luke-jr> da2ce7: most people use decimal. some use tonal. bitcoin works for both.
327 2011-03-02 01:13:59 <gasteve> but, seeing as I haven't had any payout yet, it's hard for me to be believe what my head is telling me ;)
328 2011-03-02 01:14:03 <luke-jr> gasteve: 10 days with a single Radeon
329 2011-03-02 01:14:33 <gasteve> yeah, I've got a 5970
330 2011-03-02 01:16:13 <gasteve> but for people with only enough hardware to get say 10 btc a month or less, pooling is definitely the way to go
331 2011-03-02 01:16:40 <gasteve> da2ce7: how would a "fraud pool" work?
332 2011-03-02 01:16:48 <luke-jr> gasteve: simply don't payout :p
333 2011-03-02 01:17:02 <gasteve> haha...yeah, that would go over well
334 2011-03-02 01:17:23 <luke-jr> I wonder, if I run a pool, will I lose the performance of self-mining?
335 2011-03-02 01:17:24 <da2ce7> gasteve, say that the fee is 4% but be 10%.
336 2011-03-02 01:17:25 <Blitzboom> for people that would only get 10 BTC/month, i recommend not mining at all :P
337 2011-03-02 01:17:29 <da2ce7> or something like that
338 2011-03-02 01:17:31 <luke-jr> I suppose I could always use another wallet/bitcoind for the pool&
339 2011-03-02 01:17:33 <Blitzboom> waste of electricity
340 2011-03-02 01:17:43 <Blitzboom> better buy the coins directly
341 2011-03-02 01:18:06 <gasteve> yeah
342 2011-03-02 01:18:20 <TheKid> gasteve: solo mining sucks
343 2011-03-02 01:18:22 <gasteve> actually, I think I'll be paying around $100/mo to run that 5970 machine
344 2011-03-02 01:18:23 <TheKid> I've done it quite a bit
345 2011-03-02 01:18:26 <TheKid> waste of time I believe
346 2011-03-02 01:18:29 <da2ce7> just think of all the trashy porn you can buy when you get your BTC
347 2011-03-02 01:18:37 <TheKid> gasteve: that is pretty awful electricity prices
348 2011-03-02 01:18:42 <TheKid> how much do you pay per kw/h?
349 2011-03-02 01:19:32 <gasteve> let me check
350 2011-03-02 01:22:50 <[Tycho]> gasteve, while you waiting for block, difficulty rises and your chances are diminishing :)
351 2011-03-02 01:23:47 <gasteve> looks like $0.40/kwh
352 2011-03-02 01:24:07 <gasteve> how's that compare with others?
353 2011-03-02 01:24:13 <TheKid> that's very high
354 2011-03-02 01:24:16 <Cusipzzz> wow, that is expensive
355 2011-03-02 01:24:16 <TheKid> where do you live?
356 2011-03-02 01:24:33 <ArtForz> whoa
357 2011-03-02 01:24:36 <gasteve> just outside of Altanta, GA
358 2011-03-02 01:24:40 <TheKid> wow
359 2011-03-02 01:24:42 <[Tycho]> $0.02-$0.085
360 2011-03-02 01:24:45 <lfm> thats quite high
361 2011-03-02 01:24:48 <TheKid> yeah, I pay around 15c
362 2011-03-02 01:24:53 <TheKid> per kw/h
363 2011-03-02 01:24:56 <Cusipzzz> .13-.19 in a lot of places
364 2011-03-02 01:24:56 <gasteve> where are you guys?
365 2011-03-02 01:25:06 <[Tycho]> Russia.
366 2011-03-02 01:25:20 <lfm> TheKid: not hw/h it is kwh no /
367 2011-03-02 01:25:21 <[Tycho]> In most places it's cheaper.
368 2011-03-02 01:25:30 <[Tycho]> kW*h
369 2011-03-02 01:25:35 <luke-jr> I pay $15/mo
370 2011-03-02 01:26:06 <gasteve> now, there is a base charge on my bill + an energy charge...there might be some kind of rate levelling....but still, that was based on my total power bill and the total kwh used in that period
371 2011-03-02 01:26:17 <luke-jr> so if I wanted to buy one of those huge cruise ships and make a floating soveirgn nation out of it, would anyone donate? :P
372 2011-03-02 01:26:30 <TheKid> lfm: right, my mistake
373 2011-03-02 01:26:42 <luke-jr> gasteve: I wouldn't use the base charge, since you pay that regardless
374 2011-03-02 01:26:54 <TheKid> luke-jr: maybe
375 2011-03-02 01:27:01 <gasteve> yeah, except the only thing I buy from the company is power
376 2011-03-02 01:27:01 <TheKid> are you an anarcho-capitalist or anarcho-communist?
377 2011-03-02 01:27:03 <TheKid> :P
378 2011-03-02 01:27:24 <luke-jr> TheKid: neither. I am monarchist.
379 2011-03-02 01:27:31 <Blitzboom> haha oh wow
380 2011-03-02 01:27:34 <gasteve> yeah...hmmm...except it shouldn't go up by that rate...let me do another calc
381 2011-03-02 01:28:00 <gribble> I have not seen ndrix.
382 2011-03-02 01:28:00 <gwillen> ;;seen ndrix
383 2011-03-02 01:28:11 <gasteve> lemme look at the bill closer and see if I can figure out how much more they'll charge me for an incremental increase in kw/h
384 2011-03-02 01:29:32 <ArtForz> it's kWh, kW/h doesnt make any sense
385 2011-03-02 01:29:38 <TheKid> luke-jr: I'll have to pass then ;)
386 2011-03-02 01:30:17 <luke-jr> TheKid: aww
387 2011-03-02 01:30:58 <luke-jr> it's amazing how the Faucet is hitting so many TBC values just because of that 0.0001 BTC fee
388 2011-03-02 01:31:37 <Syke> Mine is costing $.39 here in California.
389 2011-03-02 01:31:58 <ArtForz> ouch
390 2011-03-02 01:32:25 <ArtForz> even in .de in summer it's only ~ $0.30
391 2011-03-02 01:32:45 <gasteve> ok...so never mind...after looking closer, my incremental cost is $0.036 / kWh
392 2011-03-02 01:32:50 <luke-jr> lol
393 2011-03-02 01:33:04 <gasteve> which means my bill should go up by just under $10/mo
394 2011-03-02 01:33:14 <gasteve> haha...big difference!
395 2011-03-02 01:33:39 <gasteve> but still...what the hell is that base charge they are charging me...what a rip off
396 2011-03-02 01:33:54 <gasteve> I should run 10 dual 5970 servers
397 2011-03-02 01:34:08 <[Noodles]> why just 10?
398 2011-03-02 01:34:35 <gasteve> ok...next one will be a quad 5970
399 2011-03-02 01:34:44 <gasteve> (been drooling over the pictures of those)
400 2011-03-02 01:35:50 <gasteve> Syke: did I read that correctly?  $0.39, not $0.039?
401 2011-03-02 01:36:12 <Syke> I get stiffed on electricity because I have a 2-family house, but a single meter, so I go way over the base levels.
402 2011-03-02 01:36:24 <gasteve> ah
403 2011-03-02 01:36:49 <Syke> the first 300 kwh are $.12
404 2011-03-02 01:37:33 <gasteve> they haven't implemented that high usage penalty in this area yet...maybe when more pot farmers move into the area they will ;)
405 2011-03-02 01:38:21 <gasteve> or more bitcoin miners ...lol
406 2011-03-02 01:38:22 <Syke> so like $5/day in energy for my main miner, that gets 25 coins a day. It's still very profitable.
407 2011-03-02 01:38:42 <TheKid> Syke: charge secondary tenant extra for electricity
408 2011-03-02 01:39:01 <gasteve> Syke: are you pooling?  and what hardware setup?
409 2011-03-02 01:41:08 <Syke> 2x5870 in main box, 5870+5770 in second box
410 2011-03-02 01:42:39 <gasteve> and are you in a pool?  or solo?
411 2011-03-02 01:42:59 <Necr0s> Looks like my electric costs about $0.114 per kWh.
412 2011-03-02 01:45:52 <Syke> solo, no sense wasting my coins
413 2011-03-02 02:22:32 <luke-jr> gasteve: base cost is to recoup the wiring infrastructure
414 2011-03-02 02:24:23 <gasteve> luke-jr: are you saying that you're including your electrical wiring in your mining costs?
415 2011-03-02 02:25:45 <luke-jr> gasteve: no, that's what the base electricity fee is for
416 2011-03-02 02:26:54 <gasteve> oh, ic what you mean
417 2011-03-02 02:27:16 <gasteve> you're saying the base cost charged by the electric company is to cover their wiring infrastructure
418 2011-03-02 02:27:20 <gasteve> right?
419 2011-03-02 02:27:48 <luke-jr> yes
420 2011-03-02 02:28:30 <gasteve> it's interesting how much more expensive the wiring is than the energy they deliver over that wiring
421 2011-03-02 02:31:42 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
422 2011-03-02 02:32:10 <gasteve> hola
423 2011-03-02 02:32:38 <luke-jr> gasteve: depends on how much you use ofc
424 2011-03-02 02:33:15 <gasteve> ofc?
425 2011-03-02 02:33:27 <luke-jr> of course
426 2011-03-02 02:35:13 <jrabbit> bah all I got from the cpuminer crash was "segmentation fault"
427 2011-03-02 02:35:20 <jrabbit> nothin useful
428 2011-03-02 02:35:58 <luke-jr> jrabbit: lrn2debug
429 2011-03-02 02:36:10 <luke-jr> but in practice, that sounds like trying to use via on a non-via cpu
430 2011-03-02 02:36:14 <jrabbit> luke-jr: well it ran for a while before crasjing!
431 2011-03-02 02:36:36 <FellowTraveler> Hello, I have written a transaction server that allows the issuance and the untraceable trade of arbitrary digital assets. Specifically I'm using chaumian blinding to make it untraceable.  I'm looking for a developer (who maintains a bitcoin client) who might be interested in adding my API to his client. I think this technology might be useful for solving issues of resource allocation on anonymous networks, which is where I'm eventually going wit
432 2011-03-02 02:36:42 <jrabbit> I got a quick crash tryign to use 32 bit asm in a 64 bit build ratehr wuick :P
433 2011-03-02 02:36:47 <jrabbit> I was using 4wat
434 2011-03-02 02:36:50 <jrabbit> *y
435 2011-03-02 02:36:52 <FellowTraveler> If anyone is interested in such discussion, please contact me privately, thanks  :)
436 2011-03-02 02:37:18 <jrabbit> in the midterm
437 2011-03-02 02:37:35 <jrabbit> is there a DEAD simple bash way to restart these things
438 2011-03-02 02:37:53 <luke-jr> FellowTraveler: doesn't sound liek something to be integrated in a client
439 2011-03-02 02:38:07 <FellowTraveler> Luke, it is.
440 2011-03-02 02:39:38 <FellowTraveler> luke-jr, FYI clients use the API to do things like issue asset types, open asset accounts, register a public key ("nym"), write and deposit cheques, withdraw and deposit cash or cashier's cheques, trade on markets, etc. Users do all those things, and the API makes it easy for GUI developers (since it does all the work underneath)
441 2011-03-02 02:39:41 <jrabbit> nvm found something
442 2011-03-02 02:41:04 <FellowTraveler> I envision a federated system of these servers providing all the necessary instruments (running on I2P somewhere or whatever, and in multiple jurisdictions), using bitcoin for the backing commodity since it is publicly auditable
443 2011-03-02 02:44:07 <hazek> so did you guys see
444 2011-03-02 02:44:30 <hazek> that topic from a guy that works for various high-street banks, helping them ensure their facilities are not abused by criminals - anyone who would use a bank account as part of the process of making money illegally
445 2011-03-02 02:44:33 <xelister> FellowTraveler: freenet
446 2011-03-02 02:45:04 <hazek> asking questions of how bitcoin work
447 2011-03-02 02:45:11 <xelister> FellowTraveler: bitcoin over freenet - there is idea to write it (we seek funding ;)
448 2011-03-02 02:45:24 <jrabbit> there we go
449 2011-03-02 02:45:36 <jrabbit> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/696839/how-do-i-write-a-bash-script-to-restart-a-process-if-it-dies used a bit of bash
450 2011-03-02 03:07:00 <bitcoiner> anyone using mtgox trade api ?
451 2011-03-02 03:12:46 <sethsethseth> what is the deal with that, can it interface with any trading programs?
452 2011-03-02 03:13:23 <doublec> I have an amazing number of search query hits on my website for 'bitcoin unconfirmed' recently
453 2011-03-02 03:13:36 <doublec> sadly hard to monetize that I suspect
454 2011-03-02 03:14:07 <sethsethseth> lol thats rly funny
455 2011-03-02 03:16:24 <phantomcircuit> doublec, run an automated confirmation system for specific tx ids
456 2011-03-02 03:16:45 <sethsethseth> which site is yours?
457 2011-03-02 03:17:57 <ArtForz> hmm, is bitcoin central down?
458 2011-03-02 03:18:20 <jgarzik> ArtForz: bugged, here
459 2011-03-02 03:18:38 <ArtForz> first timed out, now 500 errors
460 2011-03-02 03:19:07 <doublec> sethsethseth: it's not a bitcoin site, just a general blog. But I wrote about bitcoins once so I get search hits: http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2010/10/10/a-short-introduction-to-bitcoin.html
461 2011-03-02 03:19:13 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, i bet you could make some BTC selling accelerated inclusion in a block
462 2011-03-02 03:19:33 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: I think thats the general idea of TX fees...
463 2011-03-02 03:20:02 <sethsethseth> whats the deal, people just dont understand where the setting is to pay a tx fee?
464 2011-03-02 03:20:35 <phantomcircuit> hmm i just realized that the mainline client has no way to specify tx fee
465 2011-03-02 03:20:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it does on command line options
466 2011-03-02 03:21:01 <ArtForz> errr, I thought it does have that option in options...
467 2011-03-02 03:21:05 <phantomcircuit> that's not very useful :|
468 2011-03-02 03:21:15 <tcatm> yes, bitcoin-central is down. 500
469 2011-03-02 03:21:19 <phantomcircuit> you'd want to do it for specific transactions
470 2011-03-02 03:21:28 <phantomcircuit> some you'd want to try and clear free
471 2011-03-02 03:21:33 <EvanR> ;;buy 1 "metal gear solid 4" @ 25 BTC
472 2011-03-02 03:21:33 <gribble> Order id 714 created.
473 2011-03-02 03:21:41 <EvanR> oops
474 2011-03-02 03:21:42 <ArtForz> yeah, doesnt have a per-tx fee option
475 2011-03-02 03:21:49 <phantomcircuit> lol
476 2011-03-02 03:23:04 <ArtForz> btw, I agree that "value of inputs" probably shouldnt factor into tx priority
477 2011-03-02 03:24:48 <mmarker> Wow, still working the tx issue?
478 2011-03-02 03:24:56 <ArtForz> well, it kinda cleared itself
479 2011-03-02 03:25:12 <ArtForz> thanks to a block with 780 tx or so...
480 2011-03-02 03:25:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 25600 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 2 minutes and 47 seconds
481 2011-03-02 03:25:22 <mmarker> ;;bc,calcd 25600 1
482 2011-03-02 03:25:49 <mmarker> Ok, fingers crossed.
483 2011-03-02 03:26:03 <ArtForz> but it showed that tx priority ordering needs more work
484 2011-03-02 03:26:26 <jgarzik> the value thing, IIRC, was mainly that people are far less likely to spam using 10000 BTC.  and also, faster confirmations for bigger sums encourages use of bitcoin for larger amounts, which is always a good thing for the economy imo
485 2011-03-02 03:26:35 <ArtForz> yep
486 2011-03-02 03:27:01 <ArtForz> it also encourages sending larger amounts per tx -> less block chain size for same volume of currency flow
487 2011-03-02 03:29:12 <ArtForz> so maybe it's not that bad overall
488 2011-03-02 03:29:40 <ArtForz> looks like the huge queue was mostly the faucet running out of confirmed inputs and creating 0/unconfirmed chains
489 2011-03-02 03:31:05 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, the faucet was spending unconfirmed btc?
490 2011-03-02 03:31:09 <ArtForz> yes
491 2011-03-02 03:31:38 <phantomcircuit> heh
492 2011-03-02 03:31:44 <mmarker> Well, my ASM spit out output that was identical to the C code
493 2011-03-02 03:31:50 <phantomcircuit> how is the faucet funded?
494 2011-03-02 03:31:53 <mmarker> now doing a firetest on real blocks
495 2011-03-02 03:32:06 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: donations
496 2011-03-02 03:32:12 <ArtForz> when client runs out of confirmed tx, it starts using 0/unconf change-to-self as inputs
497 2011-03-02 03:32:18 <mmarker> and I swear, this is the reason I don't go to vegas
498 2011-03-02 03:32:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 24900 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 2 minutes and 52 seconds
499 2011-03-02 03:32:46 <mmarker> ;;bc,calcd 24900 1
500 2011-03-02 03:33:19 <ArtForz> and it looks like a "unconfirmed tx chain" only makes it into blocks one tx per block
501 2011-03-02 03:34:13 <ArtForz> which actually looks like a reasonable way to cut down tx spam
502 2011-03-02 03:35:15 <gwillen> ArtForz: well, presumably it has to be only one tx per block
503 2011-03-02 03:35:16 <ArtForz> I'll have to check the code, but I *think* a tx with a 0/unconf input always gets a dPriority score of 0
504 2011-03-02 03:35:37 <gwillen> because I assume you can't put a tx in a block if the inputs are not already in a block?
505 2011-03-02 03:35:42 <ArtForz> yep
506 2011-03-02 03:35:58 <gwillen> *nods*
507 2011-03-02 03:36:01 <ArtForz> but you can put childern that depend on that tx into the same block
508 2011-03-02 03:36:32 <gwillen> ahh, okay
509 2011-03-02 03:36:36 <gwillen> it just tends not to?
510 2011-03-02 03:36:55 <ArtForz> I have to really check what the code is doing
511 2011-03-02 03:36:59 <jgarzik> well it tries really hard not to spend young coins, to begin with
512 2011-03-02 03:37:07 <ArtForz> yep
513 2011-03-02 03:37:34 <ArtForz> sending client pretty much only does that as a last resort when it doesnt have any confirmed tx to use as inputs left
514 2011-03-02 03:38:22 <ArtForz> only question is, why did a bunch of the pool payouts take so long to get into blocks... also 0-unconf chains?
515 2011-03-02 03:39:21 <tcatm> likely. he has to split generated coins into smaller ones
516 2011-03-02 03:39:33 <phantomcircuit> possibly there should be a trust system, a certain allocation of trust for every block generated?
517 2011-03-02 03:39:37 <ArtForz> imo the observed behaviour for the 0-unconf faucet tx is reasonable
518 2011-03-02 03:39:44 <Lachesis> is there support for sending 50 outputs from 1 input?
519 2011-03-02 03:39:53 <ArtForz> as they really look like tx spam
520 2011-03-02 03:40:04 <mmarker> Back to debugging tomorrow
521 2011-03-02 03:40:07 <ArtForz> Lachesis: currently no, gavin is considering implementing it
522 2011-03-02 03:40:17 <Lachesis> ArtForz, yeah would be nice for pools
523 2011-03-02 03:40:19 <luke-jr> Lachesis: for creating them, or for putting them in a block?
524 2011-03-02 03:40:21 <ArtForz> theres already a post on the dev section on it
525 2011-03-02 03:40:21 <mmarker> I think it's the 2nd sha256 is being bad.
526 2011-03-02 03:40:22 <Lachesis> i.e. instead of sending a pool txn, getting back change, then sending another, and so on...
527 2011-03-02 03:40:30 <ArtForz> yes
528 2011-03-02 03:40:42 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, there's support for it in the network protocol afaict
529 2011-03-02 03:40:47 <luke-jr> ArtForz: I recall someone saying that the original client refuses to put such tx in a block
530 2011-03-02 03:40:52 <ArtForz> yes
531 2011-03-02 03:40:57 <Lachesis> phantomcircuit, yeah, but they've blocked it for security fears
532 2011-03-02 03:41:03 <ArtForz> because they fail the (<= 2 sigops / tx) check
533 2011-03-02 03:41:03 <Lachesis> all non-standard txns don't work right now
534 2011-03-02 03:41:29 <ArtForz> pretty much
535 2011-03-02 03:41:33 <luke-jr> ok
536 2011-03-02 03:41:37 <luke-jr> my miner accepts non-std
537 2011-03-02 03:41:40 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, there's a hard limit of 2 sigops/tx?
538 2011-03-02 03:41:43 <ArtForz> yes
539 2011-03-02 03:41:45 <mmagic> well, well.. the difficulty estimate graph I've been watching, here: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png just dropped like 100GHash/s..
540 2011-03-02 03:41:46 <luke-jr> so they should get in
541 2011-03-02 03:41:46 <phantomcircuit> why not 2 sigops/output?
542 2011-03-02 03:41:56 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: no clue
543 2011-03-02 03:41:56 <mmagic> verrrry interesting.
544 2011-03-02 03:42:25 <ArtForz> mmagic: it's a estimate based on assumption of exponential growth
545 2011-03-02 03:42:30 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, someones electricity got more expensive? :P
546 2011-03-02 03:42:44 <ArtForz> currently looks like hashrate is pretty much not growing at all
547 2011-03-02 03:43:03 <ArtForz> so it's simply correcting for the overestimation
548 2011-03-02 03:43:09 <gribble> Error: "bc,ststs" is not a valid command.
549 2011-03-02 03:43:09 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,ststs
550 2011-03-02 03:43:14 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
551 2011-03-02 03:43:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111311 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1584 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 60180.50023119
552 2011-03-02 03:43:35 <LobsterMan> has diff ever gone down?
553 2011-03-02 03:43:40 <luke-jr> yes
554 2011-03-02 03:43:41 <Lachesis> LobsterMan, once
555 2011-03-02 03:43:46 <Lachesis> went from 12 to 11 :)
556 2011-03-02 03:43:50 <LobsterMan> lol
557 2011-03-02 03:44:12 <ArtForz> if (GetSigOpCount() > 2 || nSize < 100)
558 2011-03-02 03:44:40 <ArtForz> I guess the pool could just create multi-output tx and put them into its own blocks...
559 2011-03-02 03:45:01 <luke-jr> ArtForz: or just write the generation to the winners
560 2011-03-02 03:45:31 <ArtForz> luke-jr: thats kinda... not possible
561 2011-03-02 03:45:43 <luke-jr> ArtForz: it is possible, someone even does it
562 2011-03-02 03:45:57 <ArtForz> you dont know the payout distribution before the block is found
563 2011-03-02 03:46:08 <mmagic> ArtForz: so it is.. i missed that. thanks for the sanity check.
564 2011-03-02 03:46:27 <gwillen> are nonstandard transactions only rejected by the default client when it's trying to build a block? not if they appear in other people's blocks?
565 2011-03-02 03:46:34 <ArtForz> yes
566 2011-03-02 03:46:46 <gwillen> *nods*
567 2011-03-02 03:46:52 <ArtForz> when they're in a block they're valid
568 2011-03-02 03:46:58 <ArtForz> standalone they get ignored
569 2011-03-02 03:47:01 <gwillen> *nodnod*
570 2011-03-02 03:48:14 <ArtForz> people that request very small pool payouts will still end up with hundreds of tiny tx, but thats what they asked for
571 2011-03-02 03:48:33 <gwillen> *nods*
572 2011-03-02 03:48:39 <ArtForz> another benefit, pool payout tx would be a lot smaller
573 2011-03-02 03:49:04 <ArtForz> inputs are a quite a bit larger than outputs
574 2011-03-02 03:49:09 <gwillen> mainly I was wondering because any disagreement between different clients over what is a valid block is really dangerous
575 2011-03-02 03:49:22 <ArtForz> nope, valid block rules are pretty universal
576 2011-03-02 03:49:30 <gwillen> they better be totally universal ;-)
577 2011-03-02 03:49:35 <gwillen> othewise you can make the block chain split
578 2011-03-02 03:49:38 <gwillen> and that would be bad
579 2011-03-02 03:49:44 <jrabbit> gwillen: its my understanding that they break the entwork
580 2011-03-02 03:49:51 <gwillen> jrabbit: what do?
581 2011-03-02 03:49:52 <ArtForz> well, 0.3.8 had different notions of what a valid block was...
582 2011-03-02 03:49:53 <jrabbit> i.e. a fork
583 2011-03-02 03:50:10 <ArtForz> the whole "overflow tx" thing
584 2011-03-02 03:50:10 <gwillen> ArtForz: well, if it's being phased out that is one thing
585 2011-03-02 03:50:24 <ArtForz> and yes, it obviously caused a chain fork
586 2011-03-02 03:50:24 <gwillen> what was "overflow tx"?
587 2011-03-02 03:50:52 <ArtForz> a tx with 2 outputs that when summed overflowed a uint64
588 2011-03-02 03:50:54 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, if all the inputs added up to more than the 64 bit output could hold
589 2011-03-02 03:50:57 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, magic
590 2011-03-02 03:51:00 <phantomcircuit> you're rich
591 2011-03-02 03:51:07 <phantomcircuit> or the other way around
592 2011-03-02 03:51:08 <ArtForz> old check was sum(outputs) < sum(inputs)
593 2011-03-02 03:51:09 <phantomcircuit> whatever
594 2011-03-02 03:51:11 <gwillen> heh, oops
595 2011-03-02 03:51:37 <gwillen> of course, there was no incentive for anyone to produce such a txn on purpose
596 2011-03-02 03:51:46 <phantomcircuit> gwillen, uh yes there is
597 2011-03-02 03:51:53 <phantomcircuit> inputs < outputs
598 2011-03-02 03:51:57 <phantomcircuit> == money made
599 2011-03-02 03:52:19 <ArtForz> except to overflow it you had to create a few billion bitcoin of output
600 2011-03-02 03:52:28 <ArtForz> which was pretty damn obvious
601 2011-03-02 03:52:55 <gwillen> oh, I see
602 2011-03-02 03:52:58 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, isn't the new check basically the same, except with an overflow check?
603 2011-03-02 03:52:59 <ArtForz> so fixing it and simply ignoring anything > 21M btc as invalid was a pretty quick affair
604 2011-03-02 03:53:00 <gwillen> the client would accept the bad txn
605 2011-03-02 03:53:05 <gwillen> and then accept the individual outputs
606 2011-03-02 03:53:17 <gwillen> thus creating BTC from ntohing
607 2011-03-02 03:53:29 <jrabbit> magic!
608 2011-03-02 03:53:47 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: yes, iirc now check for amount < 21M*COIN and theres if (a + b) < a overflow checks
609 2011-03-02 03:55:11 <ArtForz> 0.3.8 didnt have the checks, 0.3.9 had the checks but couldnt purge the blocks containing invalid tx from the tored block chain, 0.3.10 finally fixed it for good
610 2011-03-02 03:56:18 <ArtForz> btw, I wonder if the progressive fee schedule for blocks is really needed
611 2011-03-02 03:56:32 <phantomcircuit> if (txout.nValue < 0)
612 2011-03-02 03:56:33 <phantomcircuit> wat
613 2011-03-02 03:56:53 <ArtForz> whoops, int64s, not uint64s :P
614 2011-03-02 03:57:01 <phantomcircuit> why would it even be able to store negative values?!
615 2011-03-02 03:57:11 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: oh I forgot I was going to work with your code..
616 2011-03-02 03:57:28 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, network code appears to be fully functional
617 2011-03-02 03:57:31 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: I never understood that either
618 2011-03-02 03:57:34 <phantomcircuit> minus ip trans
619 2011-03-02 03:57:41 <phantomcircuit> but im not going to implement that
620 2011-03-02 03:58:42 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, ps the if (txout.nValue > MAX_MONEY) will stop working once multiple outputs is enabled
621 2011-03-02 03:58:53 <ArtForz> no it wont
622 2011-03-02 03:59:09 <phantomcircuit> just have a shit ton of txs that overflow
623 2011-03-02 03:59:14 <phantomcircuit> all 21 million
624 2011-03-02 03:59:17 <ArtForz> check GetValueOut in main.h
625 2011-03-02 03:59:17 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: btw you can jsut define a fucntion with "pass"
626 2011-03-02 03:59:26 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, what?
627 2011-03-02 03:59:32 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: i.e.
628 2011-03-02 03:59:37 <jrabbit> def handle_alert(self,p):
629 2011-03-02 03:59:49 <jrabbit> why do you have this?
630 2011-03-02 04:00:10 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: check GetValueOut in main.h
631 2011-03-02 04:00:12 <jrabbit> if it does nothing just do def funct(): pass
632 2011-03-02 04:00:13 <phantomcircuit> so i can see if i got an alert
633 2011-03-02 04:00:17 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, yeah i am
634 2011-03-02 04:00:18 <jrabbit> oh.
635 2011-03-02 04:00:33 <phantomcircuit> jrabbit, all the print statements are just debugging
636 2011-03-02 04:00:40 <jrabbit> oh I thoguht thwy were place holders
637 2011-03-02 04:00:42 <phantomcircuit> none of them are actually useful
638 2011-03-02 04:00:46 <jrabbit> nvm
639 2011-03-02 04:01:06 <jrabbit> thought you were gonna go in and add stuff there :)
640 2011-03-02 04:01:21 <jrabbit> oh
641 2011-03-02 04:01:29 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: actually
642 2011-03-02 04:01:47 <jrabbit> the big dict of fucntions coudl be reduced to a single dict + print function
643 2011-03-02 04:02:04 <phantomcircuit> huh
644 2011-03-02 04:02:10 <jrabbit> I know its jsut debug stuff but it'd be less ugly
645 2011-03-02 04:02:41 <phantomcircuit> the functions are both placeholders and debugging
646 2011-03-02 04:02:47 <jrabbit> oh.
647 2011-03-02 04:03:02 <jrabbit> hmph
648 2011-03-02 04:03:47 <jrabbit> but yeah you figure out sane lib layout good job :P
649 2011-03-02 04:03:55 <jrabbit> :)
650 2011-03-02 04:04:15 <mmagic> New sell:       10 @ $0.9452   per / Del sell:       10 @ $0.9453   per ; I wonder who that is. he's been floating around his little 10 BTC for days..
651 2011-03-02 04:05:14 <jrabbit> phantomcircuit: looks good pythonically mostly interals :P
652 2011-03-02 04:06:57 <mmagic> huh. mtgox only allows $1k withdrawals per 24 hour period >:-/
653 2011-03-02 04:09:55 <Stan> hi
654 2011-03-02 04:11:46 <Stan> where can I contribute language translations ?
655 2011-03-02 04:14:54 <Necr0s> These exchange sites need to get more pro.
656 2011-03-02 04:16:12 <keystrike> what are the current issues with them Necr0s?
657 2011-03-02 04:16:41 <Necr0s> Well, that 1k per day limit for example.
658 2011-03-02 04:17:10 <Necr0s> They should also offer ACH pull and push.
659 2011-03-02 04:17:21 <jgarzik> 1k is regulatory limit
660 2011-03-02 04:17:21 <Necr0s> Instead of making you go through LR.
661 2011-03-02 04:17:30 <jgarzik> going pro means a lot of money and regulation
662 2011-03-02 04:17:45 <jgarzik> higher fees, for what is currently small volume
663 2011-03-02 04:18:03 <Necr0s> I doubt you're limited to 1k/day wd on a typical forex trading acct.
664 2011-03-02 04:18:10 <jgarzik> Necr0s: mtgox permits deposit by wire for amounts > $800
665 2011-03-02 04:18:43 <Necr0s> And why that limitation of > $800?
666 2011-03-02 04:18:53 <Diablo-D3> legal shit
667 2011-03-02 04:18:55 <keystrike> ahh
668 2011-03-02 04:19:13 <Necr0s> hmf
669 2011-03-02 04:19:37 <Necr0s> All them encumberences.
670 2011-03-02 04:19:39 <jgarzik> typical forex trading involves vastly larger sums of money, and numbers of transactions.  they are compensated for KYC/AML regulatory hurdles.
671 2011-03-02 04:19:45 <Necr0s> All tied to the USD side of things.
672 2011-03-02 04:20:12 <Diablo-D3> general rule: if something mtgox does doesnt make sense, its because of legal shit
673 2011-03-02 04:20:59 <Necr0s> That's unfortunate 'cuz I think it's a hinderance to more widespread acceptance.
674 2011-03-02 04:23:17 <keystrike> have there been any code security audits?
675 2011-03-02 04:23:25 <keystrike> i read about a possible bounty on one of the forums
676 2011-03-02 04:23:49 <luke-jr> lol
677 2011-03-02 04:23:52 <jgarzik> it's been one long code security audit since the genesis block through today
678 2011-03-02 04:24:03 <keystrike> haha yes good point
679 2011-03-02 04:24:27 <keystrike> however only recently are bitcoins at parity with the dollar
680 2011-03-02 04:24:54 <keystrike> which greatly increases the incentive of a break i would guess
681 2011-03-02 04:25:11 <keystrike> forgive me if this topic has been covered in depth - i ran the client for a few weeks in early '09 but haven't checked back until a few days ago
682 2011-03-02 04:25:24 <nanotube> keystrike: hope you haven't lost your coins :)
683 2011-03-02 04:25:29 <keystrike> nope ;)
684 2011-03-02 04:25:53 <keystrike> wish i didnt stop running it but hey, it's still ok :)
685 2011-03-02 04:26:12 <keystrike> thanks for the free money btw guys
686 2011-03-02 04:26:28 <nanotube> hehe
687 2011-03-02 04:26:38 <keystrike> :P
688 2011-03-02 04:27:24 <Necr0s> what did your few weeks of cpu mining then yield?
689 2011-03-02 04:28:06 <Necr0s> ;;calc 3000,1
690 2011-03-02 04:28:08 <gribble> ...
691 2011-03-02 04:28:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 23 minutes and 51 seconds
692 2011-03-02 04:28:30 <nanotube> ;;bc,calcd 3000 1
693 2011-03-02 04:28:42 <Necr0s> thx
694 2011-03-02 04:28:47 <nanotube> :)
695 2011-03-02 04:29:14 <keystrike> i think about 1400 or something
696 2011-03-02 04:29:35 <Kiba> err
697 2011-03-02 04:29:41 <Kiba> this week's The Bitcoin Weekly
698 2011-03-02 04:30:55 <keystrike> also its possible a flaw would be best leveraged if kept secret
699 2011-03-02 04:30:59 <necrodearia> internal server error at https://www.bitcoin-central.net/
700 2011-03-02 04:31:01 <necrodearia> whose site is it?
701 2011-03-02 04:31:02 <keystrike> that makes me a bit paranoid
702 2011-03-02 04:31:08 <nanotube> necrodearia: davout's
703 2011-03-02 04:31:15 <necrodearia> at, alredy reported by tcatm
704 2011-03-02 04:31:23 <necrodearia> s/at/ah/
705 2011-03-02 04:31:34 <validus> its probably just a simple fix, just needs to be there to do it
706 2011-03-02 04:31:49 <validus> ive gotten them from other sites and fixed pretty quickly
707 2011-03-02 04:38:21 <Kiba> so guys
708 2011-03-02 04:38:23 <Kiba> weekly.co.nr?
709 2011-03-02 04:43:06 <phantomcircuit> the most worrying thing about that is that it's on ubuntu....
710 2011-03-02 04:43:12 <phantomcircuit> who the hell sues ubuntu for a server?!
711 2011-03-02 04:44:29 <phantomcircuit> s/sues/uses/
712 2011-03-02 04:46:08 <nanotube> what's wrong with ubuntu on a server?
713 2011-03-02 04:46:29 <nanotube> server-wise, it's essentially debian, with a few package differences...
714 2011-03-02 04:48:17 <mmagic> ubuntu server is good.
715 2011-03-02 04:50:22 <Necr0s> I used ubuntu server on my 2 latest linux servers.
716 2011-03-02 04:50:25 <Necr0s> It works fine.
717 2011-03-02 04:50:57 <Necr0s> It's certainly not so retarded as Fedora was when I ditched it.
718 2011-03-02 04:52:09 <Necr0s> I figured why not go with something that's well known and broadly supported.
719 2011-03-02 04:52:28 <Necr0s> I'm already somewhat familiar with it from using it on desktops.
720 2011-03-02 04:56:11 <phantomcircuit> there is at least one php related security issue the ubuntu devs introduced
721 2011-03-02 04:56:14 <mmagic> i am currently angry at rh/cent/fc
722 2011-03-02 04:56:17 <phantomcircuit> why not go with debian?
723 2011-03-02 04:56:30 <mmagic> there is at least one serious ssh security issue debian introduced.
724 2011-03-02 04:56:49 <phantomcircuit> sure, but that was also in ubuntu
725 2011-03-02 04:57:12 <mmagic> so?
726 2011-03-02 04:57:22 <mmagic> we're talking about people introducing security issues. :)
727 2011-03-02 04:58:23 <mmagic> anyway, i tend to use version-control to fork my own daemon from original upstream source anyway, so those sorts of packaging issues tend not to affect me..
728 2011-03-02 04:58:44 <phantomcircuit> wat
729 2011-03-02 04:59:19 <mmagic> php/mysql/apache.. I version them myself and create my own forks with my own mods in them. it's just easier that way..
730 2011-03-02 04:59:30 <phantomcircuit> lol srsly?
731 2011-03-02 04:59:34 <phantomcircuit> sounds complicated
732 2011-03-02 04:59:58 <mmagic> no, i have good version control and that sort of thing is kind of my day job.
733 2011-03-02 04:59:59 <Necr0s> If you manage a lot of machines or vms I can see that being worth diong.
734 2011-03-02 05:00:31 <phantomcircuit> if im rolling out a lot of machines or vms im not going to be using ubuntu
735 2011-03-02 05:00:48 <Necr0s> Well, that's you...
736 2011-03-02 05:01:11 <Necr0s> Different flavas for different tastes.
737 2011-03-02 05:01:13 <mmagic> hrm..  does ubuntu have a kind of kickstart thing like rh does?  i've never checked.
738 2011-03-02 05:02:24 <phantomcircuit> kickstart? ew
739 2011-03-02 05:02:26 <phantomcircuit> disk images
740 2011-03-02 05:03:36 <mmagic> you have a pretty clear idea of what you think is incorrect, i've noticed. have you considered the possibility that not everyone has the same efficiency tradeoffs you do? :)
741 2011-03-02 05:03:56 <phantomcircuit> hehe
742 2011-03-02 05:04:07 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, yes i have
743 2011-03-02 05:05:05 <mmagic> k. cool then. :) how'd the bitcoind audit going? did you find anything else b0rked?
744 2011-03-02 05:05:22 <phantomcircuit> i stopped looking
745 2011-03-02 05:05:34 <mmagic> you found one minor and one major right?
746 2011-03-02 05:05:34 <phantomcircuit> instead i started building my own python client
747 2011-03-02 05:05:57 <phantomcircuit> i found one major
748 2011-03-02 05:06:27 <mmagic> i thought you found another minor one but it was kind of a side-effect and not destructively exploitable?
749 2011-03-02 05:06:55 <mmagic> drat, my memory is like swiss cheese these days. friggin' sleep!
750 2011-03-02 05:07:18 <phantomcircuit> i found what looked like a minor one
751 2011-03-02 05:07:24 <phantomcircuit> which turned out to be a major one
752 2011-03-02 05:08:14 <mmagic> o.
753 2011-03-02 05:09:32 <validus> thats why you dont sleep and just keep working
754 2011-03-02 05:10:07 <phantomcircuit> LIKE A BOSS
755 2011-03-02 05:10:16 <mmagic> A SUPERBOSS
756 2011-03-02 05:10:19 <phantomcircuit> also i have a fully functional network client now
757 2011-03-02 05:10:19 <validus> lol
758 2011-03-02 05:10:25 <phantomcircuit> LIKE A BOSS
759 2011-03-02 05:10:31 <validus> i found with the help of these lil pink things i can go 30 - 50 hours strong
760 2011-03-02 05:10:41 <phantomcircuit> lol
761 2011-03-02 05:10:41 <validus> the most ive ever done sober is like 60
762 2011-03-02 05:10:43 <mmagic> fully functional as in fully participatory including transactions and wallets and stuff?
763 2011-03-02 05:10:54 <validus> internet breeds insomnia lol
764 2011-03-02 05:10:55 <mmagic> jesus validus what the hell man.
765 2011-03-02 05:10:57 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, no just the network portion for now
766 2011-03-02 05:11:01 <phantomcircuit> psh
767 2011-03-02 05:11:05 <validus> theres always somethign to do. with something to do who needs sleep
768 2011-03-02 05:11:07 <phantomcircuit> amateur
769 2011-03-02 05:11:22 <validus> i have no sense of time for the most part. just daylight or dark
770 2011-03-02 05:11:27 <phantomcircuit> i went for a full presidents day weekend once
771 2011-03-02 05:11:35 <phantomcircuit> slept for about 18 hours
772 2011-03-02 05:11:36 <mmagic> you know people who work like that tend to die off pretty quick eh?
773 2011-03-02 05:11:36 <validus> im still looking for a job i have tons of time
774 2011-03-02 05:11:56 <validus> well im doing work for myself and my own projects not the stress of a job and all that mess
775 2011-03-02 05:11:58 <validus> big difference
776 2011-03-02 05:12:04 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, im in excellent health
777 2011-03-02 05:12:15 <mmagic> not you, the guy who stayed up 60 hours.
778 2011-03-02 05:12:17 <validus> most the time its their super negative attitude that gets the best of them. if you tell yourself your sick eventually you will be
779 2011-03-02 05:12:22 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, lol i've done that
780 2011-03-02 05:12:35 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, usually only go 30 though
781 2011-03-02 05:12:36 <validus> actually last weekend i was up 34
782 2011-03-02 05:12:43 <validus> i was hurtin but i had things to do lol
783 2011-03-02 05:13:01 <keystrike> as someone who sees programming as primarily a spectator sport, you guys are pretty impressive
784 2011-03-02 05:13:16 <validus> i ahvent looked at code in a long while
785 2011-03-02 05:13:37 <validus> im trying to teach myself tcl off of this bot script i had done and mysqltcl with it, its interesting
786 2011-03-02 05:13:53 <phantomcircuit> tcl makes me want to cry
787 2011-03-02 05:14:07 <validus> well have no tcl experience have someone write something halfway advanced and then say edit it if you want to change it
788 2011-03-02 05:14:23 <validus> i actually started out with just gettin the basics and when i todl them what i wanted they said i was insane lol
789 2011-03-02 05:14:44 <validus> well insane for having no experience in it for the task i wanted it to do
790 2011-03-02 05:14:48 <keystrike> haha
791 2011-03-02 05:14:59 <mmagic> also, even if you think you're in excellent health, read this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071119130734.htm
792 2011-03-02 05:15:00 <mmagic> :)
793 2011-03-02 05:15:09 <validus> i dont read news. news is negative crapt
794 2011-03-02 05:15:22 <validus> if its something positive it gets 10 secs. if its negative it gets 10 mins
795 2011-03-02 05:15:24 <gwillen> mmagic: yeah, this is something I keep seeing, it is pretty worrying
796 2011-03-02 05:15:34 <gwillen> mmagic: since I spend most of my day sitting, as do I suspect most people here
797 2011-03-02 05:15:47 <mmagic> yeah freaks the heck outta me
798 2011-03-02 05:15:49 <validus> if you stay active you'll be fine
799 2011-03-02 05:16:04 <validus> im prob one of the most in shape smokers you could meet
800 2011-03-02 05:16:08 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, shocker people who sit all the time die more often
801 2011-03-02 05:16:11 <mmagic> gotta get up every couple of hours and wander around. grab a coke zero.
802 2011-03-02 05:16:16 <phantomcircuit> mmagic, im actually standing right now
803 2011-03-02 05:16:19 <phantomcircuit> like a boss
804 2011-03-02 05:16:22 <keystrike> i only study financial markets rather than read news... they tend to be a bit more data rich :)
805 2011-03-02 05:16:23 <validus> bleh soda
806 2011-03-02 05:16:25 <mmagic> A SUPERBOXX
807 2011-03-02 05:16:29 <validus> sweet tea and beer
808 2011-03-02 05:16:32 <validus> hehe
809 2011-03-02 05:16:37 <mmagic> sweet tea? what's that?
810 2011-03-02 05:16:52 <validus> when you boil the tea you add sugar before you pour in the hot tea
811 2011-03-02 05:17:01 <gwillen> aparently it is a southern thing
812 2011-03-02 05:17:02 <validus> it dissolves. cup or so for every gallon
813 2011-03-02 05:17:10 <gwillen> I have been told it is a crime that I've never had it ;-)
814 2011-03-02 05:17:17 <validus> i usually eye ball it
815 2011-03-02 05:17:21 <mmagic> huh! well I guess I gotta try it now.
816 2011-03-02 05:17:26 <validus> gwillen: its great
817 2011-03-02 05:17:33 <validus> thats all i drink is tea and juice
818 2011-03-02 05:17:39 <validus> cept for beer
819 2011-03-02 05:17:58 <validus> well now anyways when i was in sales i used to drink about 7 rockstar's or nos's a day
820 2011-03-02 05:18:05 <mmagic> well, they say boiling the water for tea is one of the reasons humans pre-public sanitation managed to survive as well as they did. :)
821 2011-03-02 05:18:21 <phantomcircuit> hmm i should probably also parse the scripts out of op codes
822 2011-03-02 05:18:42 <validus> now i gotta quit being lazy and go back to workin out again
823 2011-03-02 05:18:57 <validus> im tellin ya 110%. perfect pushup will tear you apart
824 2011-03-02 05:19:06 <validus> and i hate informercials and promoted crapt like that
825 2011-03-02 05:19:08 <validus> hehe
826 2011-03-02 05:19:16 <mmagic> tea in china, beer/mead in europe, milk in africa (and mongolia for that matter)
827 2011-03-02 05:19:27 <validus> ive had euro tea and coffee, its good
828 2011-03-02 05:19:31 <validus> very strong
829 2011-03-02 05:19:57 <validus> oh ya coffee. i love coffee to and not that iced or flavored crapt
830 2011-03-02 05:20:02 <mmagic> all avoided bad water sanitation problems..
831 2011-03-02 05:20:05 <keystrike> yum coffee
832 2011-03-02 05:20:09 <mmagic> dude. I make the best coffee there is.
833 2011-03-02 05:20:10 <keystrike> i wish i could drink some right now
834 2011-03-02 05:20:14 <mmagic> LIKE A BOSS
835 2011-03-02 05:20:20 <validus> only thing coffee should have thats flavor in it is baileys irish creme
836 2011-03-02 05:20:29 <validus> if its good coffee it needs no cream or sugar
837 2011-03-02 05:20:33 <Mango-chan> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/01/what-every-entrepreneur-could-learn-from-justin-bieber/
838 2011-03-02 05:21:17 <mmagic> I buy my own green beans, roast them, hand-grind them, and columbian press them. my coffee IS DA BEST.
839 2011-03-02 05:21:35 <validus> nice
840 2011-03-02 05:21:37 <keystrike> wow nice man
841 2011-03-02 05:21:41 <keystrike> even im not that hardcore
842 2011-03-02 05:21:51 <keystrike> now i might have to try that :)
843 2011-03-02 05:21:56 <validus> if i had the patience and room todo it and not in this apt i prob would
844 2011-03-02 05:21:59 <mmagic> actually it's really easy. like 10 minutes of your time every 5 days or so.
845 2011-03-02 05:22:13 <mmagic> you can roast them in a $12 popper from walmart.
846 2011-03-02 05:22:22 <validus> i met a guy that put his in the oven to dry them out
847 2011-03-02 05:22:36 <mmagic> just the grinder itself can be expensive, and you can't cheap out on that.
848 2011-03-02 05:22:39 <validus> ive only met maybe 2 people in my life that did their own coffee
849 2011-03-02 05:22:48 <mmagic> 3 now! nice to meet you!
850 2011-03-02 05:22:52 <validus> no more expensive probably than espresso machines going for 150 - 400
851 2011-03-02 05:23:05 <validus> cept i got mine free lol
852 2011-03-02 05:23:09 <mmagic> a good hand grinder will run about $150
853 2011-03-02 05:23:38 <keystrike> ya i have a good grinder cause i get beans
854 2011-03-02 05:23:41 <keystrike> but i never roasted
855 2011-03-02 05:23:44 <keystrike> didnt know it was that easy
856 2011-03-02 05:23:46 <mmagic> zassenhaus, or peugeot freres. the latter have lifetime guarantees. my parents still have the one my grandfather had in the 20s.
857 2011-03-02 05:23:58 <keystrike> wow
858 2011-03-02 05:23:58 <mmagic> er..  sorry 40s.
859 2011-03-02 05:24:14 <validus> going cheap on a grinder is like going cheap on a power supply
860 2011-03-02 05:24:17 <validus> you just dont do it
861 2011-03-02 05:24:31 <mmagic> you can find out pretty much everything you need to know here, and also order there too: http://www.sweetmarias.com/
862 2011-03-02 05:25:11 <mmagic> they go a bit further than I do and use PID controlled heaters and make their own machines and so on, but there's a little for everyone there.
863 2011-03-02 05:27:02 <keystrike> so will bitcoin ever cloak itself as http traffic?
864 2011-03-02 05:27:41 <mmagic> and i'd just like to apologise now.. if you get into it, and you find in about 2 years that you're tracking down where the hell the rancid oils came from, and you're obsessively cleaning every little tiny stupid little mechanism and cursing out the universe.. well, I'm sorry.
865 2011-03-02 05:28:43 <keystrike> hahaha mmagic
866 2011-03-02 05:28:58 <mmagic> :-)
867 2011-03-02 05:30:00 <Necr0s> cloak as dns traffic
868 2011-03-02 05:34:49 <keystrike> haha yes
869 2011-03-02 05:34:50 <keystrike> even better
870 2011-03-02 06:52:57 <Sahtor> Most recent wiki edit was a affil link to adult site. possibly spam
871 2011-03-02 06:53:33 <discHead> Only possibly? :)
872 2011-03-02 06:53:50 <Sahtor> you never know with new currency :)
873 2011-03-02 06:54:49 <validus> there was someone doing a porn site i heard
874 2011-03-02 06:54:51 <validus> or wanting to
875 2011-03-02 06:55:04 <discHead> There already is a porn site taking Bitcoin, I think
876 2011-03-02 06:55:42 <validus> theres quite qa few on the wiki
877 2011-03-02 06:55:50 <validus> i doubt most are spam, should click before say spam
878 2011-03-02 06:56:04 <validus> didnt say they were good though hehe
879 2011-03-02 07:01:44 <OneFixt> --> http://www.bitpenny.com/index2.php   Bitpenny upgrade is open to the public for testing!  (no guarantees) please help to stress test it
880 2011-03-02 07:05:22 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
881 2011-03-02 07:05:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 111329 | Current Difficulty: 55590.23763914 | Next Difficulty At Block: 112895 | Next Difficulty In: 1566 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 59543.90350755
882 2011-03-02 07:17:51 <mekel> so my computer keeps randomly shutting off.. however the video card will remain on, and the fans will start blowing harder than ive ever heard.. what do u guys think it is
883 2011-03-02 07:17:52 <mekel> psu?
884 2011-03-02 07:18:30 <mekel> or am i possibly givin the vid card too much load? its hitting 84 celcius
885 2011-03-02 07:18:55 <[Tycho]> GPU overheating should not cause shutdowns.
886 2011-03-02 07:18:57 <OneFixt> mekel: check cpu temps
887 2011-03-02 07:19:05 <[Tycho]> You better keep it under 80
888 2011-03-02 07:19:45 <mekel> rly?
889 2011-03-02 07:19:52 <mekel> cpu temps are regular
890 2011-03-02 07:19:54 <mekel> not above 50 C
891 2011-03-02 07:20:21 <ArtForz> if thats a ATI card, they run at 100% fan after power cycling until the BIOS inits them
892 2011-03-02 07:20:30 <mekel> it is
893 2011-03-02 07:20:36 <mekel> ati hd 6950
894 2011-03-02 07:21:06 <ArtForz> I've seen that behaviour a few times, usually shortly before the PSU croaks
895 2011-03-02 07:21:14 <mekel> thats what i am thinking
896 2011-03-02 07:21:55 <mekel> i also should note im running dual psus
897 2011-03-02 07:22:04 <ArtForz> wha? for a 6950 ?
898 2011-03-02 07:22:18 <mekel> i just got a 400w psu dedicated to the 6950
899 2011-03-02 07:22:25 <mekel> and then a 250 for the pc
900 2011-03-02 07:22:30 <ArtForz> ugh
901 2011-03-02 07:22:40 <mekel> lol
902 2011-03-02 07:23:24 <mekel> what temp are u guys avging
903 2011-03-02 07:23:26 <mekel> on ur gpus
904 2011-03-02 07:23:58 <ArtForz> currently ... 77???C
905 2011-03-02 07:24:23 <ArtForz> with fans between 40 and 54%
906 2011-03-02 07:24:26 <mekel> im going between 78-80 with -f set to 15
907 2011-03-02 07:24:43 <mekel> sad becuz i am losing out on 40,000 khashes
908 2011-03-02 07:24:52 <mekel> even tho my card can hash them
909 2011-03-02 07:24:54 <ArtForz> but then I have a pretty crazy setup
910 2011-03-02 07:25:05 <mekel> lol
911 2011-03-02 07:25:08 <mekel> what u runnin
912 2011-03-02 07:25:15 <mekel> whats ur gpu load at art
913 2011-03-02 07:25:32 <ArtForz> 99%
914 2011-03-02 07:25:37 <mekel> werd
915 2011-03-02 07:25:41 <mekel> -f set to 1?
916 2011-03-02 07:25:53 <ArtForz> yup
917 2011-03-02 07:26:05 <mekel> i suppose if i get slightly more efficient cooling+ a new psu
918 2011-03-02 07:26:12 <mekel> i will go back to -f 1
919 2011-03-02 07:27:01 <ArtForz> a *decent* 500W PSU should be fine for a single 6950
920 2011-03-02 07:27:27 <validus> empasis on decent
921 2011-03-02 07:27:29 <mekel> yeah
922 2011-03-02 07:27:32 <mekel> yes lol
923 2011-03-02 07:27:32 <validus> emphasis*
924 2011-03-02 07:27:34 <mekel> its like
925 2011-03-02 07:27:41 <mekel> an orion240 or somethn
926 2011-03-02 07:27:42 <ArtForz> yeah, as in "not a $20 chinese firecracker"
927 2011-03-02 07:28:08 <mekel> i thot 400 watts completely dedicated to the card would be no biggie
928 2011-03-02 07:28:09 <mekel> wrrrronnng
929 2011-03-02 07:28:33 <ArtForz> well, if its really a 400W, it would probably work ;)
930 2011-03-02 07:28:48 <mekel> lol
931 2011-03-02 07:28:50 <mekel> tru
932 2011-03-02 07:28:59 <mekel> i wonder if its failing or just underpowered
933 2011-03-02 07:29:06 <mekel> it really does only fail under huge load
934 2011-03-02 07:29:23 <mekel> the psu fails i mean*
935 2011-03-02 07:29:24 <ArtForz> probably a cheap group-regulated design, whats its +12V output ampere rating?
936 2011-03-02 07:29:36 <mekel> one sec
937 2011-03-02 07:30:10 <mekel> 17a
938 2011-03-02 07:30:27 <ArtForz> thats... 200W
939 2011-03-02 07:30:38 <mekel> lmao o_o
940 2011-03-02 07:30:44 <ArtForz> sounds like a old P4-era PSU design
941 2011-03-02 07:30:56 <mekel> poor graphics card
942 2011-03-02 07:31:13 <mekel> he is hugnry for power
943 2011-03-02 07:31:17 <validus> you should see the amp rating for the video card
944 2011-03-02 07:31:26 <validus> then maybe unplugging some other things might help but i doubt it
945 2011-03-02 07:31:34 <ArtForz> do you have any load on +5V on the 2nd PSU?
946 2011-03-02 07:31:34 <mekel> well like
947 2011-03-02 07:32:15 <mekel> nto sure
948 2011-03-02 07:32:24 <mekel> just got the mobo + hard drive + dvd drive
949 2011-03-02 07:32:29 <mekel> on the 2nd psu