1 2011-03-11 00:17:43 <ousado> hm.. how do I tell when bitcoin starts generating coins and done with download+verification?
  2 2011-03-11 00:18:09 <Kiba> ousado: block download is separate from bitcoin generation
  3 2011-03-11 00:20:45 <ousado> ah, thanks, I see, it's a bit misleading here: https://www.bitcoin.org/faq#How_long_does_it_take_to_generate_a_coin
  4 2011-03-11 00:27:22 <farzong> bitcoin is the best
  5 2011-03-11 00:30:20 <farzong> coinme
  6 2011-03-11 00:30:28 <farzong> i need moar coins
  7 2011-03-11 00:34:37 <phantomcircuit> ousado, you cant generate a valid block until you've downloaded and verified all the txs (actually the tx verification part isn't strictly necessary for block generation)
  8 2011-03-11 00:37:35 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
  9 2011-03-11 00:37:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113070 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65612.08939947
 10 2011-03-11 00:39:40 <ousado> ok, how do I tell when verification is done? it doesn't it take significantly longer than the download, right?
 11 2011-03-11 00:40:48 <JFK911> lol difficulty
 12 2011-03-11 00:40:54 <JFK911> there's severe manipulation
 13 2011-03-11 00:44:01 <jgarzik> ousado: Once you have 113,071 blocks
 14 2011-03-11 00:45:19 <ousado> ah, I see, then I'm done
 15 2011-03-11 01:17:45 <blarzong> sorry ArtForz, jedrek, BitterTea, da2ce7, edcba, dust1, dirtyfilthy, FatherMcGruder, agorist, _W_, you guys are smart and brilliant. i was wrong about certain aspects of the protocol, you were right
 16 2011-03-11 01:19:32 <MagicalTux> not often we can see someone say that on internet
 17 2011-03-11 01:21:50 <Cusipzzz> lol
 18 2011-03-11 01:21:51 <mizerydearia> take silkroadmarket.com for example (not mine).  It is hosted on i2p, but would there be any location that is safe to host such a site?
 19 2011-03-11 01:21:56 <mizerydearia> oops, wrong chan
 20 2011-03-11 01:32:09 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, is that on i2p?
 21 2011-03-11 01:34:20 <mizerydearia> phantomcircuit, I believe so
 22 2011-03-11 01:35:12 <mizerydearia> I used it as an example questioning where may be a jurisdication that may be acceptance of hosting content that may otherwise seemingly be legal in areas such as us
 23 2011-03-11 01:35:27 <mizerydearia> Particularly, however, my concern was for witcoin, but I didn't want to use it as an example
 24 2011-03-11 01:35:53 <mizerydearia> s/legal/illegal/
 25 2011-03-11 01:35:56 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, if you're afraid purchase a cc gift card in cash, use that to buy a vps, then run tor on the vps
 26 2011-03-11 01:36:22 <mizerydearia> I don't want to run witcoin through tor.  I'd rather have it open to more users
 27 2011-03-11 01:36:31 <mizerydearia> besides, even if I ran it on tor, it's already too late
 28 2011-03-11 01:37:10 <mizerydearia> s/on/using/
 29 2011-03-11 01:38:22 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, you could always do both
 30 2011-03-11 01:38:56 <x6763> "the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks" ... wouldn't that just be the timestamp of the 6th most recent block? (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_timestamp)
 31 2011-03-11 01:40:14 <x6763> or am i misunderstanding what is meant by "median"?
 32 2011-03-11 01:40:29 <x6763> oh nevermind
 33 2011-03-11 01:40:33 <mizerydearia> phantomcircuit, again, that would be unnecessary and naive
 34 2011-03-11 01:40:56 <mizerydearia> i2p is useful to disassociate content with entity
 35 2011-03-11 01:41:06 <mizerydearia> witcoin is already associated with my entity
 36 2011-03-11 01:41:13 <x6763> i wasn't thinking about sorting the timestamps first
 37 2011-03-11 01:41:27 <x6763> now it makes sense
 38 2011-03-11 01:41:42 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, well if it's already associated with you and you want to include content which is illegal in your jurisdiction
 39 2011-03-11 01:41:44 <phantomcircuit> you cant
 40 2011-03-11 01:42:00 <mizerydearia> but I already do?
 41 2011-03-11 01:42:34 <mizerydearia> My concern for now is to determine which jurisdiction it is legal or acceptable and to establish a server in that location.
 42 2011-03-11 01:43:24 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, in most jurisdictions that wont helpyou
 43 2011-03-11 01:43:27 <phantomcircuit> especially in the US
 44 2011-03-11 01:45:04 <mizerydearia> my aim is to find out specifically what those lease jurisdictions are.
 45 2011-03-11 01:45:09 <mizerydearia> least*
 46 2011-03-11 01:45:40 <mizerydearia> and note that I am not cheating and using an aimbot
 47 2011-03-11 01:48:41 <dirtyfilthy> omgwtfhax
 48 2011-03-11 01:56:23 <phantomcircuit> mizerydearia, wat?
 49 2011-03-11 02:02:18 <javagamer> Is it possible to remove addresses from an account or just forget about them?
 50 2011-03-11 02:03:14 <lfm> javagamer: not normally
 51 2011-03-11 02:03:39 <javagamer> lfm: Alright, just wondering
 52 2011-03-11 02:04:30 <lfm> javagamer: you can move em to another account I think
 53 2011-03-11 02:04:51 <javagamer> lfm: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking I'll do
 54 2011-03-11 02:10:58 <gribble> 113084
 55 2011-03-11 02:10:58 <mmarker> ;;bc,blocks
 56 2011-03-11 02:11:35 <dissipate_> ;;bc,stats
 57 2011-03-11 02:11:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113084 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1827 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 7 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67183.42134901
 58 2011-03-11 02:18:32 <noagendamarket> hmm going up again
 59 2011-03-11 02:20:01 <mmarker> noagendamarket, from earlier today?
 60 2011-03-11 02:20:42 <noagendamarket> yeah it was 65000 not long ago
 61 2011-03-11 02:20:48 <mmarker> ahh.
 62 2011-03-11 02:21:01 <mmarker> I'm guessing there;s a bit of noise at this point
 63 2011-03-11 02:21:04 <noagendamarket> Next Difficulty Estimate: 65612.08939947
 64 2011-03-11 02:21:20 <mmarker> Evening, the kiddies are home, firing up their PCs
 65 2011-03-11 02:21:35 <mmarker> Where's sipa's graphs
 66 2011-03-11 02:21:42 <noagendamarket> ah that might  explain it
 67 2011-03-11 02:22:35 <mmarker> Yea, his graphs aren't that fine
 68 2011-03-11 02:22:50 <dissipate_> is difficulty going to go up or down next round?
 69 2011-03-11 02:22:59 <mmarker> Overall, who knows!
 70 2011-03-11 02:23:14 <mmarker> It is at 76k, looks like MAYBE 65-67k?
 71 2011-03-11 02:23:19 <mmarker> But it all depends
 72 2011-03-11 02:23:24 <dissipate_> so some have bowed out
 73 2011-03-11 02:23:26 <dissipate_> haha
 74 2011-03-11 02:23:39 <mmarker> No, there was the massive botnet/whatever spike
 75 2011-03-11 02:23:56 <mmarker> which just really shook everything to hell
 76 2011-03-11 02:24:17 <dissipate_> ouch, that sucks
 77 2011-03-11 02:24:26 <dissipate_> could have been a government botnet
 78 2011-03-11 02:24:37 <dissipate_> i warned about that awhile back. no one seemed to care.
 79 2011-03-11 02:24:52 <mmarker> dissipate: Most likely a bored hacker, really
 80 2011-03-11 02:26:09 <lfm> the government doesnt do botnets. they just buy as many computers as they need
 81 2011-03-11 02:26:11 <noagendamarket> does the government even care about it considering they can extort cash from people irl
 82 2011-03-11 02:26:23 <mmarker> If you look at sipa's chart, the peaks are all very regular.
 83 2011-03-11 02:26:30 <mmarker> Actually, where is sipa. I'm assuming his charts are in UTC?
 84 2011-03-11 02:27:03 <mmarker> It's really odd. The peaks all correspond with high noon UTC.
 85 2011-03-11 02:27:04 <Avemo> some admin maybe stealing supercomputer time
 86 2011-03-11 02:27:21 <mmarker> Avemo: Which is why the X axis is important
 87 2011-03-11 02:27:26 <jrabbit> or allocated time.
 88 2011-03-11 02:27:29 <mmarker> But it's so damn regular
 89 2011-03-11 02:28:11 <Avemo> maybe not stealing but renting while electricity is low priced
 90 2011-03-11 02:28:21 <mmarker> Avemo: Ore, more apt
 91 2011-03-11 02:28:23 <mmarker> err
 92 2011-03-11 02:28:33 <mmarker> more apt. A uni or private business node
 93 2011-03-11 02:28:50 <mmarker> machines go idle at night, use something like Condor to fire them all up
 94 2011-03-11 02:29:00 <[Tycho]> At first half the peaks were in midnight, in second half - at noon.
 95 2011-03-11 02:29:02 <mmarker> or a modified BOINC
 96 2011-03-11 02:29:31 <mmarker> I only see the noon. The spike around 6/3 is a bit wonky
 97 2011-03-11 02:29:40 <mmarker> looks like someone just got a asston of time then.
 98 2011-03-11 02:29:49 <mmarker> But the 6th was a weekend
 99 2011-03-11 02:29:54 <mmarker> Yea, business machines
100 2011-03-11 02:30:34 <mmarker> Hmm, that may be a fun project. Set up a BOINC task to mine
101 2011-03-11 02:31:14 <Avemo> maybe folding  need some money lol
102 2011-03-11 02:31:27 <mmarker> well, no
103 2011-03-11 02:31:41 <mmarker> more like "student admin who can push software to computer labs"
104 2011-03-11 02:32:03 <mmarker> so....you push clients to nodes, and when they'r idle, you go to work
105 2011-03-11 02:32:04 <Avemo> that's quite a lab
106 2011-03-11 02:32:26 <Avemo> like 1k 5970 worth
107 2011-03-11 02:32:30 <mmarker> avemo: My undergrad...we had a few thousand computers scattered about the whole campus
108 2011-03-11 02:33:09 <mmarker> I know some labs had maybe 30 computers...and maybe 2 people using them at any given time
109 2011-03-11 02:33:54 <Avemo> nahh it's NSA testing their sha256 ASIC farm
110 2011-03-11 02:34:02 <mmarker> No, that's ArtForz
111 2011-03-11 02:44:49 <da2ce7> "Mac OS X is like living in a farmhouse in the country with no locks, and Windows is living in a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town."
112 2011-03-11 02:52:48 <blarzong> how do i donate to the bitcoin development team for creating this awesome system?
113 2011-03-11 02:53:24 <`Jaka> you donate to me
114 2011-03-11 02:54:02 <blarzong> ok cool
115 2011-03-11 02:54:19 <blarzong> to your bitcoin address?
116 2011-03-11 02:54:25 <blarzong> or paypal
117 2011-03-11 02:54:59 <Avemo> I hope you r not seriously going to donate to a stranger
118 2011-03-11 02:55:57 <Avemo> bettter send somethig to bitcoin fauthet
119 2011-03-11 02:55:58 <noagendamarket> 14bnMoxFmiM6sERKnqQ2qaN2ejDMMXEVhL    you can donate there and Ill spend it on hookers and blow
120 2011-03-11 02:57:51 <blarzong> heheh
121 2011-03-11 02:57:55 <blarzong> cool
122 2011-03-11 03:04:18 <Kiba> anybody knows a good scheme compiler?
123 2011-03-11 03:09:30 <blarzong> gnu scheme is nice
124 2011-03-11 03:10:10 <blarzong> or CHICKEN
125 2011-03-11 03:17:15 <phantomcircuit> there's more than one?
126 2011-03-11 03:26:27 <blarzong> whats new
127 2011-03-11 03:43:35 <theymos> MagicalTux: You were looking for me?
128 2011-03-11 03:44:29 <mizerydearia> hey, would anyone be willing to upvote http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/g1p3p/is_linking_to_content_illegal_apparently/ please?
129 2011-03-11 03:50:02 <Aciid> mizerydearia: controverlsial
130 2011-03-11 03:50:08 <Aciid> mizerydearia: is witcoin yyour service?
131 2011-03-11 03:50:12 <mizerydearia> it is
132 2011-03-11 03:50:34 <Aciid> you could imporive it a little if you wish to keep tha spam at minimum
133 2011-03-11 03:50:44 <Aciid> have bitcoin confirm of the account
134 2011-03-11 03:50:55 <Aciid> maybe pay ~0.01 for the registeration
135 2011-03-11 03:50:55 <mizerydearia> huh?
136 2011-03-11 03:50:55 <noagendamarket> lol we havent had any spam
137 2011-03-11 03:51:03 <mizerydearia> have you used the site yet?
138 2011-03-11 03:51:18 <Aciid> username:password type of registeration brings spam
139 2011-03-11 03:51:19 <Aciid> lots of it
140 2011-03-11 03:51:25 <mizerydearia> have you used the site yet?
141 2011-03-11 03:51:33 <mizerydearia> try to spam on it.  good luck
142 2011-03-11 03:51:37 <noagendamarket> Aciid i suggest you try it
143 2011-03-11 03:51:45 <Aciid> okey :<
144 2011-03-11 03:51:45 <noagendamarket> it will be expensive
145 2011-03-11 03:51:53 <noagendamarket> :)
146 2011-03-11 03:51:54 <Aciid> ah so it costs to post
147 2011-03-11 03:51:57 <Aciid> dejavu
148 2011-03-11 03:52:05 <Aciid> oh we were speakin about this earlier
149 2011-03-11 03:52:06 <Aciid> lol
150 2011-03-11 03:52:50 <theymos> I wish witcoin had some page with "top new stuff" that I could check daily for new stuff that I haven't seen before. Like the reddit front page.
151 2011-03-11 03:55:23 <mizerydearia> hmm
152 2011-03-11 04:03:25 <MagicalTux> theymos, yep, mind to go private? :p
153 2011-03-11 04:03:34 <theymos> Sure.
154 2011-03-11 04:21:16 <mizerydearia> "users will resort to distributed commodities like Bitcoin because of web of fear" - http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/g1p3p/is_linking_to_content_illegal_apparently/#
155 2011-03-11 04:23:30 <dirtyfilthy> mizerydearia: fuck that man, switch providers
156 2011-03-11 04:26:26 <mizerydearia> dirtyfilthy, switch to?
157 2011-03-11 04:27:14 <dirtyfilthy> provider outside the states maybe
158 2011-03-11 04:28:13 <echelon> mizerydearia, run a tor hidden service :)
159 2011-03-11 04:28:21 <echelon> as a back-up at least
160 2011-03-11 04:31:06 <FellowTraveler> hi all'
161 2011-03-11 04:31:13 <echelon> hi
162 2011-03-11 04:31:13 <mizerydearia> that won't make much of a difference anymore
163 2011-03-11 04:31:32 <echelon> ya :/
164 2011-03-11 04:31:36 <mizerydearia> and also it will then make it less accessible to many people
165 2011-03-11 04:32:15 <noagendamarket> hiy
166 2011-03-11 04:36:55 <dirtyfilthy> someone needs to offer bulletproof hosting for bitcoin
167 2011-03-11 04:37:13 <jgarzik> dirtyfilthy: define bulletproof :)
168 2011-03-11 04:37:43 <dirtyfilthy> /ignore abuse@bulletproofhosting.com
169 2011-03-11 04:38:06 <dirtyfilthy> in some east european state
170 2011-03-11 04:38:24 <theymos> Maybe you can host the site at http://serioustubes.org/ :)
171 2011-03-11 04:39:09 <mizerydearia> what is the new exchange site that had established bank accounts?
172 2011-03-11 04:39:59 <mizerydearia> lawl, internet, serious business
173 2011-03-11 04:40:46 <nanotube> ;;calc 550 sek in usd
174 2011-03-11 04:40:47 <gribble> 550 Swedish kronor = 86.0288 US dollars
175 2011-03-11 04:41:16 <mizerydearia> seems to be part of kopimi community
176 2011-03-11 04:41:35 <mizerydearia> mm, I should add kopimi icon at bottom of witcoin
177 2011-03-11 04:41:36 <da2ce7> ;;calc 100 aud in usd
178 2011-03-11 04:41:37 <gribble> 100 Australian dollars = 100.2600 US dollars
179 2011-03-11 04:41:42 <da2ce7> yay!
180 2011-03-11 04:42:21 <da2ce7> nanotube's gribble is going to obtain ai if we ain't carefull
181 2011-03-11 04:42:39 <nanotube> haha
182 2011-03-11 04:42:50 <da2ce7> ;;question what is the meaning of life?
183 2011-03-11 04:42:50 <gribble> Error: "question" is not a valid command.
184 2011-03-11 04:43:13 <gribble> No clue.
185 2011-03-11 04:43:13 <nanotube> ;;eightball do you know the meaning of life?
186 2011-03-11 04:43:14 <nanotube> heh
187 2011-03-11 04:43:15 <da2ce7> dang, nanotube... it hasn't evolved yet.
188 2011-03-11 04:43:38 <gribble> answer to life the universe and everything = 42
189 2011-03-11 04:43:38 <nanotube> ;;calc answer to life the universe and everything
190 2011-03-11 04:43:46 <nanotube> close enough? :)
191 2011-03-11 04:43:50 <da2ce7> :)
192 2011-03-11 04:44:23 <mizerydearia> btw, check out the video on front page @ http://thepiratebay.org/
193 2011-03-11 04:44:31 <AmpEater> Awesome
194 2011-03-11 04:44:50 <da2ce7> maybe you can makes gribble analize everything that is posted on the forum, and answer from that.
195 2011-03-11 04:44:55 <da2ce7> *irc
196 2011-03-11 04:45:04 <da2ce7> som basic ia stuff
197 2011-03-11 04:46:41 <da2ce7> reinstalling windows today...
198 2011-03-11 04:46:46 <da2ce7> that is my project...
199 2011-03-11 04:47:04 <da2ce7> doing backup now... so slow... copying large ammount of data is so time consuming.
200 2011-03-11 04:48:11 <da2ce7> and a Hitachi 3TB hdd
201 2011-03-11 04:48:40 <da2ce7> replacing two old Segate 0.5TB in raid 0
202 2011-03-11 04:48:45 <retinal> a 3TB Hitachi just sounds like a recipe for disaster
203 2011-03-11 04:48:55 <theymos> Try using Teracopy.
204 2011-03-11 04:49:02 <nevezen> large amounts of data? pr0n right? :P
205 2011-03-11 04:49:18 <retinal> also, Western Digital bought out Hitachi's storage technology division a while back
206 2011-03-11 04:50:27 <da2ce7> hmm, the hdd that i got had good reviews... hmm I normaly go with samsung hdd's
207 2011-03-11 04:50:42 <nevezen> not a while back, recently
208 2011-03-11 04:50:57 <retinal> oh, well, my sense of time is horribly skewed
209 2011-03-11 04:51:32 <da2ce7> yeah, windows kinda dosn't like copying faster than 50MB/s
210 2011-03-11 04:51:33 <da2ce7> :(
211 2011-03-11 04:51:41 <retinal> all I've done for the past few days is roll around in bed with the flu .__.
212 2011-03-11 04:52:15 <retinal> da2ce7: that would make sense if you're copying a lot of small files
213 2011-03-11 04:52:31 <Diablo-D3> [12:49:18] <retinal> also, Western Digital bought out Hitachi's storage technology division a while back
214 2011-03-11 04:52:32 <Diablo-D3> welp
215 2011-03-11 04:52:36 <Diablo-D3> I cant recommend hitachis anymore
216 2011-03-11 04:52:56 <da2ce7> WD sucks...
217 2011-03-11 04:52:58 <retinal> I only bought Hitachi 1TBs in the past
218 2011-03-11 04:53:02 <da2ce7> it is like the old maxtor.
219 2011-03-11 04:53:08 <theymos> I've been satisfied with my Western Digital drives. I've never had one fail yet.
220 2011-03-11 04:53:11 <da2ce7> well... not that bad...
221 2011-03-11 04:53:13 <Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered
222 2011-03-11 04:53:14 <Diablo-D3> well
223 2011-03-11 04:53:15 <Diablo-D3> were
224 2011-03-11 04:53:27 <nevezen> yeah, I'm satisfied with WD's..
225 2011-03-11 04:53:28 <retinal> The 2TB Samsungs are quiet, cool, and provide decent throughput
226 2011-03-11 04:53:40 <retinal> but Western Digital: blue, green, black
227 2011-03-11 04:53:41 <retinal> wtf
228 2011-03-11 04:53:45 <nevezen> I bought a couple maxtor's a while back.. they failed utterly
229 2011-03-11 04:54:01 <da2ce7> the Hatachi ones look well made.
230 2011-03-11 04:54:07 <nevezen> I still have an 8 year old seagate that still works
231 2011-03-11 04:54:21 <Diablo-D3> I have a 2TB 5400rpm samsung in an ext enclosure
232 2011-03-11 04:54:25 <Diablo-D3> wouldnt trade it for anything
233 2011-03-11 04:54:44 <retinal> Seagate 7200.11 series as fubar'd; everything else should still be okay (and cheap)
234 2011-03-11 04:54:48 <nevezen> aren't hitachi's known to installed on most laptop/netbooks these days?
235 2011-03-11 04:54:49 <retinal> s/as/was
236 2011-03-11 04:54:56 <Aciid> 07:53 < Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered
237 2011-03-11 04:54:59 <Aciid> ...
238 2011-03-11 04:55:05 <Aciid> no
239 2011-03-11 04:55:07 <retinal> nevezen: yep
240 2011-03-11 04:55:13 <nevezen> I have a seagate 7200.11
241 2011-03-11 04:55:16 <da2ce7> I have got over 5 samsung over the years... not one falure... Have had 4 maxtor falures and 6 segate, and 2 WD
242 2011-03-11 04:55:29 <Diablo-D3> Aciid: yup.
243 2011-03-11 04:55:44 <Diablo-D3> hitachi gst == old ibm drive division
244 2011-03-11 04:56:02 <nevezen> I read somewhere that hitachi travelstars are the worst kinds..
245 2011-03-11 04:56:17 <da2ce7> nevezen, they were slow!
246 2011-03-11 04:56:30 <Diablo-D3> nevezen: nope.
247 2011-03-11 04:56:41 <da2ce7> but reliable
248 2011-03-11 04:56:46 <Diablo-D3> although I'd probably pick a samsung for a laptop due to lower power consumption
249 2011-03-11 04:57:04 <retinal> lower power consumption? might as well get an ssd
250 2011-03-11 04:57:09 <nevezen> still waiting for the price of ssd's to come down..
251 2011-03-11 04:57:12 <Diablo-D3> retinal: they didnt exist yet.
252 2011-03-11 04:57:19 <nevezen> you can get a 60 gig for ~$100 now
253 2011-03-11 04:57:24 <Diablo-D3> and ssds arent really ready for primetime imo
254 2011-03-11 04:57:40 <nevezen> never understood those "hybrids" either..
255 2011-03-11 04:57:44 <retinal> Diablo-D3: I've used CompactFlash + adapter a while back
256 2011-03-11 04:57:50 <retinal> not pretty or fantastic
257 2011-03-11 04:57:52 <Diablo-D3> retinal: heh, thats cheating
258 2011-03-11 04:57:53 <retinal> but it got the job done
259 2011-03-11 04:58:09 <retinal> now laptops can boot from SDHC
260 2011-03-11 04:58:10 <Diablo-D3> the original ssd, CF in an adapter.
261 2011-03-11 04:58:24 <Diablo-D3> and the adapter doesnt do anything
262 2011-03-11 04:58:25 <nevezen> has to be an acceptable class of sdhc though
263 2011-03-11 04:58:26 <Diablo-D3> its purely mechanical
264 2011-03-11 04:58:33 <nevezen> try booting off a class 2.. :)
265 2011-03-11 04:58:37 <Diablo-D3> CF are natively IDE.
266 2011-03-11 04:59:06 <retinal> nevezen: haha, tried that
267 2011-03-11 04:59:14 <Diablo-D3> I dont see the point of SD
268 2011-03-11 04:59:19 <retinal> 8GB microSDHC in an adapter
269 2011-03-11 04:59:21 <Diablo-D3> they're useless without a complex reader
270 2011-03-11 04:59:28 <Diablo-D3> I dont need a reader for CF
271 2011-03-11 04:59:34 <Diablo-D3> its native IDE
272 2011-03-11 04:59:49 <nevezen> I wanted to try using an SD/CF to SATA adapter
273 2011-03-11 05:00:01 <Diablo-D3> CF to SATA is easy
274 2011-03-11 05:00:10 <Diablo-D3> you use a generic IDE->SATA adapter
275 2011-03-11 05:00:17 <Diablo-D3> one that you use with any drive
276 2011-03-11 05:00:21 <da2ce7> hmm... I have given up on those fancy readers and just got a good CF to USB2
277 2011-03-11 05:00:23 <da2ce7> :(
278 2011-03-11 05:00:25 <nevezen> or rather, to miniPCIE
279 2011-03-11 05:00:26 <Diablo-D3> they even make CF adapters with the bridge on them now
280 2011-03-11 05:00:28 <retinal> but you won't get the power saving benefits
281 2011-03-11 05:00:36 <da2ce7> I'll wait till a good usb 3 one.
282 2011-03-11 05:00:39 <retinal> because that IDE->SATA chipset sips power
283 2011-03-11 05:00:43 <mizerydearia> What is the bitcoin client for mobile devices that allows paying with qr codes?
284 2011-03-11 05:00:59 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: but thats the thing... thats really just a IDE harddrive enclosure.
285 2011-03-11 05:01:04 <mizerydearia> or which client (even if not qr codes) is functional for mobile devices?
286 2011-03-11 05:01:06 <Diablo-D3> all. generic. common. shit.
287 2011-03-11 05:01:13 <Diablo-D3> retinal: and no, they use very little power
288 2011-03-11 05:01:32 <Diablo-D3> retinal: and you can also use CFast instead, which is natively SATA
289 2011-03-11 05:01:39 <Diablo-D3> but I dont think anyone is making the mechanical adapters for it yet
290 2011-03-11 05:01:44 <mizerydearia> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Clients
291 2011-03-11 05:02:07 <Diablo-D3> ahaha clients
292 2011-03-11 05:02:09 <Diablo-D3> like theres more than one
293 2011-03-11 05:03:28 <mizerydearia> ah, maybe it doesn't exist yet?
294 2011-03-11 05:03:37 <[Tycho]> "<Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered" - Diablo fails, just as usual :)
295 2011-03-11 05:03:41 <mizerydearia> I thought there was a way mobile users could send/receive bitcoin payments
296 2011-03-11 05:04:14 <retinal> mizerydearia: my memory is hazy on the subject, but there was a third party service that allows for web management
297 2011-03-11 05:04:23 <retinal> is that what you're referring to?
298 2011-03-11 05:04:34 <[Tycho]> "mybitcoin" ?
299 2011-03-11 05:04:43 <retinal> I don't think there's an application that runs everything natively on a mobile platform
300 2011-03-11 05:04:48 <genjix> MagicalTux: http://92.7.172.0/ <-- want to donate a vps so i can set that up? :)
301 2011-03-11 05:05:33 <mizerydearia> I am not entirely sure what I'm referring to.
302 2011-03-11 05:05:40 <mizerydearia> I could be imagining things
303 2011-03-11 05:05:50 <mizerydearia> btw, does anyone have any brains I may snack on?  I'm a zombie.
304 2011-03-11 05:05:53 <Aciid> mizerydearia: wait, are you running witcoin from some webhost
305 2011-03-11 05:06:00 <Aciid> regarding to the TOS post
306 2011-03-11 05:06:04 <mizerydearia> Aciid, no, vps
307 2011-03-11 05:06:06 <mizerydearia> linode.com
308 2011-03-11 05:06:38 <Aciid> hmm
309 2011-03-11 05:06:47 <Aciid> why would they care, or did you ask?
310 2011-03-11 05:07:04 <Aciid> express it in your TOS that the content is solely written by submitter
311 2011-03-11 05:07:17 <Aciid> like tb-dev trackers do
312 2011-03-11 05:08:58 <Aciid> mizerydearia: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=G14bBqfq
313 2011-03-11 05:09:34 <mizerydearia> That won't help.
314 2011-03-11 05:09:42 <Aciid> bad ISP
315 2011-03-11 05:09:50 <Aciid> change to some network which wont care
316 2011-03-11 05:09:56 <Aciid> or fight
317 2011-03-11 05:10:10 <Diablo-D3> [01:03:37] <[Tycho]> "<Diablo-D3> hitachi is the best drives manufacturered" - Diablo fails, just as usual :)
318 2011-03-11 05:10:16 <Aciid> http://www.nforce.nl/product/14
319 2011-03-11 05:10:21 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: well, if WD bought them out, no, they arent anymore.
320 2011-03-11 05:10:28 <Aciid> nforce hosts shitloads of topsites
321 2011-03-11 05:10:41 <Diablo-D3> linode lol
322 2011-03-11 05:10:45 <Diablo-D3> rapidxen > linode
323 2011-03-11 05:10:49 <mizerydearia> because http://www.linode.com/tos.cfm Transmission, distribution, or storage of any information, data or material in violation of United States or state regulation or law, or by the common law, is prohibited
324 2011-03-11 05:10:55 <Aciid> http://www.lowendbox.com/
325 2011-03-11 05:11:01 <BitterTea> Does anyone else just suck at designing interfaces? Really, don't we all? Some just suck a little less.
326 2011-03-11 05:11:06 <mizerydearia> I need to worry about performance issues
327 2011-03-11 05:11:10 <Diablo-D3> I dont like lowendbox
328 2011-03-11 05:11:14 <Diablo-D3> they post too many shitty deals
329 2011-03-11 05:11:18 <BitterTea> *user interfaces, that is
330 2011-03-11 05:11:19 <Diablo-D3> like, who the fuck cares about openvz shit
331 2011-03-11 05:11:23 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, don't you remember Deathstar series ?
332 2011-03-11 05:11:25 <Diablo-D3> they need to kill that shit
333 2011-03-11 05:11:35 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: yes, and I also remember it was 100% media attack
334 2011-03-11 05:11:41 <Aciid> Diablo-D3: you read the comments not the reviews
335 2011-03-11 05:11:49 <Aciid> reviews = shit
336 2011-03-11 05:12:11 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: it was the first time a drive series sold so well from any manuf
337 2011-03-11 05:12:18 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, so you don't know that there was a real problem ?
338 2011-03-11 05:12:32 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the total numbers of drive failures were higher because the sales were higher
339 2011-03-11 05:12:44 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the percentage of failure was not higher than normal
340 2011-03-11 05:12:52 <Diablo-D3> the media failed at basic high school math.
341 2011-03-11 05:12:59 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, well, do you know, what was this failure exactly ?
342 2011-03-11 05:13:09 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: instant drive death after clicking
343 2011-03-11 05:13:27 <Diablo-D3> but the REAL failure was the owners
344 2011-03-11 05:13:29 <[Tycho]> I'm talking about the cause of this.
345 2011-03-11 05:13:42 <Diablo-D3> they kept sending in drives that were perfectly okay
346 2011-03-11 05:13:56 <Diablo-D3> and IBM kept sending them their drives back with notes saying the drive checked out fine
347 2011-03-11 05:14:11 <Diablo-D3> and people freaked out and blamed IBM for bad customer service
348 2011-03-11 05:14:16 <Diablo-D3> becuase... they sent back... a working drive.
349 2011-03-11 05:14:21 <[Tycho]> Of course they should send a drive that is going to die.
350 2011-03-11 05:14:31 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: going to? nope.
351 2011-03-11 05:14:34 <[Tycho]> Why ?
352 2011-03-11 05:14:43 <Diablo-D3> like I said, the failure rate of that series was not higher than normal
353 2011-03-11 05:14:55 <da2ce7> fucking windows and the 255 character file address limit!
354 2011-03-11 05:15:00 <[Tycho]> Ok. Do you know what was causing this failure ?
355 2011-03-11 05:15:06 <da2ce7> what are we... in the the year 2000?
356 2011-03-11 05:16:21 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: 75GXPs apparently may have had broken wear leveling
357 2011-03-11 05:16:29 <Diablo-D3> or something wrong with the head positioning geometry
358 2011-03-11 05:16:47 <Diablo-D3> they non-fatally headcrashed for awhile before it just trashed the drive
359 2011-03-11 05:17:19 <bonsaikitten> yeah, the klick of death must have been our imagina*FEEP CLACK*
360 2011-03-11 05:17:25 <bonsaikitten> *FEEP CLACK*
361 2011-03-11 05:17:31 <bonsaikitten> *EEEK FEEP CLACK*
362 2011-03-11 05:17:31 <Diablo-D3> there were other issues with the drive too
363 2011-03-11 05:18:03 <Diablo-D3> the controller board design was screwy and didnt work right with their design
364 2011-03-11 05:18:11 <[Tycho]> AFAIR the problem was in detoriating needle-to-pcb contact used for the first thime instead of usual flexible cable for connecting the internal space to the logic board.
365 2011-03-11 05:18:32 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: the GMR heads? there were failures with that too
366 2011-03-11 05:18:51 <bonsaikitten> not as bad as certain samsung models
367 2011-03-11 05:18:53 <Diablo-D3> but the heads were physically crashing, so you cant really point to that
368 2011-03-11 05:19:05 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: whats really nuts is IBM never sued the media
369 2011-03-11 05:19:15 <Diablo-D3> they just quietly sold the division to Hitachi
370 2011-03-11 05:19:32 <Diablo-D3> back when this happened, I remember media saying shit like 50% failure rate
371 2011-03-11 05:19:33 <Diablo-D3> nope
372 2011-03-11 05:20:24 <Diablo-D3> it wasnt even close to that
373 2011-03-11 05:20:31 <[Tycho]> "The Deskstar documentation was updated to show that the drives had been rated to 333 power-on hours per month (45 percent)" - wow, a drive that was not supposed to run :)
374 2011-03-11 05:20:46 <Diablo-D3> a consumer drive?
375 2011-03-11 05:20:48 <Diablo-D3> sure.
376 2011-03-11 05:21:50 <Diablo-D3> IBM paid out their ass for the unfailure too
377 2011-03-11 05:24:43 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and notice they only attacked IBM
378 2011-03-11 05:24:46 <Diablo-D3> look at all the shit Maxtor did
379 2011-03-11 05:24:51 <Diablo-D3> EVERY MAXTOR DRIVE EVER DIED EARLY
380 2011-03-11 05:24:57 <Diablo-D3> EVERY SINGLE ONE
381 2011-03-11 05:25:07 <[Tycho]> Not every.
382 2011-03-11 05:25:08 <Diablo-D3> no media coverage there
383 2011-03-11 05:25:12 <Diablo-D3> no class action suit there
384 2011-03-11 05:25:16 <[Tycho]> I still have running Maxtors.
385 2011-03-11 05:25:38 <Diablo-D3> its like watching what the media did to Toyota
386 2011-03-11 05:25:50 <Diablo-D3> they ended up being cleared of all wrong doing, theres nothing wrong with the cars
387 2011-03-11 05:25:58 <Diablo-D3> yet the media didnt cover THAT part
388 2011-03-11 05:26:19 <Diablo-D3> but Ford goes and recalls a few million vehicles, and the media doesnt say shit
389 2011-03-11 05:27:45 <Diablo-D3> you know why they attacked Toyota/
390 2011-03-11 05:27:49 <Diablo-D3> because its a "foreign" company
391 2011-03-11 05:28:12 <Diablo-D3> even though Toyota makes more cars in the US than any other company, and they sell more of these US made cars to US customers than any other company
392 2011-03-11 05:28:41 <Diablo-D3> unlike all the foreign made trash Ford, GM, and Chrysler push on people
393 2011-03-11 05:28:54 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if the media got confused and thought IBM was foreign
394 2011-03-11 05:29:04 <Diablo-D3> because the whole thing didnt make sense
395 2011-03-11 05:29:13 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and you know what else?
396 2011-03-11 05:29:23 <Diablo-D3> theres been gigantic drive failures since then
397 2011-03-11 05:29:28 <Diablo-D3> and the media stays quiet
398 2011-03-11 05:29:45 <Diablo-D3> like, WD Green drives have abnormally high failure rates due to the obsessive head parking
399 2011-03-11 05:29:50 <[Tycho]> I know about some HDDs with design flaws.
400 2011-03-11 05:29:52 <Diablo-D3> far worse than the 75GPX problem
401 2011-03-11 05:29:57 <Diablo-D3> and no one says shit about it
402 2011-03-11 05:45:28 <mizerydearia> Magnitude 8.8 earthquake hits Japan, epicenter 373km (281 miles) from Tokyo: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html
403 2011-03-11 05:50:22 <[Tycho]> Looks like Bitcoin's IRC is overloaded :) IRC ERROR :Closing Link: 66.197.153.197 (Sorry, server is full - try later)
404 2011-03-11 05:53:15 <genjix> this channel is hardly full
405 2011-03-11 05:53:34 <jrabbit> genjix: its on a different network
406 2011-03-11 05:54:07 <genjix> ohhh lfnet
407 2011-03-11 05:54:26 <genjix> did you see http://92.7.172.0 ?
408 2011-03-11 05:54:50 <[Tycho]> What would this site do ?
409 2011-03-11 05:55:06 <genjix> MagicalTux: wanna give me a vps for it? :p
410 2011-03-11 05:55:18 <genjix> [Tycho]: bitcoin exchange... the source code is free
411 2011-03-11 05:55:29 <genjix> http://gitorious.org/intersango/master/trees/master
412 2011-03-11 05:57:17 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: (re IRC overload)  yeah, that is one of the reasons why I wanted to get started with DNS seeding
413 2011-03-11 06:04:55 <[Tycho]> Would be funny to implement HTTP 402 code :)
414 2011-03-11 06:18:09 <genjix> omg
415 2011-03-11 06:18:18 <genjix> 9 richter in japan for earthquakes!
416 2011-03-11 06:18:44 <genjix> that's enormous
417 2011-03-11 06:18:57 <genjix> biggest one ever recorded was 10 i think
418 2011-03-11 06:24:52 <Spenvo> anyone know who manages the biddingpond?
419 2011-03-11 06:25:26 <[Tycho]> Looks serious. http://img.lenta.ru/news/2011/03/11/quake/picture.jpg
420 2011-03-11 06:26:31 <genjix> no wonder MagicalTux wasn't answering... he lives in japan -_-
421 2011-03-11 06:38:00 <Spenvo> damn, that's a big quake
422 2011-03-11 06:40:03 <Diablo-D3> genjix: erm, you do realize how the richter scale works, right?
423 2011-03-11 06:40:41 <Diablo-D3> seizmologists joke a 10 would split the earth in two.
424 2011-03-11 06:40:59 <Diablo-D3> 10 is 6 times more powerful than 9, 9 is 6 times more powerful than 8.
425 2011-03-11 06:42:31 <genjix> it's a logarithmic scale
426 2011-03-11 06:42:39 <Diablo-D3> yes
427 2011-03-11 06:44:46 <genjix> 9 richter is fucking huge
428 2011-03-11 06:46:23 <genjix> oh i see what you've done. you seen the energy released on wikipedia and compared the magnitudes of 9 and 10
429 2011-03-11 06:47:20 <Diablo-D3> no, I explained to him how logarithmic shit works
430 2011-03-11 06:47:25 <Diablo-D3> it goes from oh crap
431 2011-03-11 06:47:28 <Diablo-D3> to OH CRAP
432 2011-03-11 06:47:32 <Diablo-D3> irc needs 72 point fonts
433 2011-03-11 06:47:36 <Diablo-D3> and then it gets worse from there
434 2011-03-11 06:47:41 <genjix> did not know that
435 2011-03-11 06:48:04 <genjix> i meant i know it was logarithmic, but didn't know the scale was so whack
436 2011-03-11 06:48:08 <genjix> "Thus, a difference in magnitude of 1.0 is equivalent to a factor of 31.6"
437 2011-03-11 06:48:25 <Diablo-D3> erm
438 2011-03-11 06:48:26 <Diablo-D3> that sounds wrong
439 2011-03-11 06:48:28 <genjix> what kind of shit scale is that :p
440 2011-03-11 06:48:30 <Diablo-D3> its supposed to be 6
441 2011-03-11 06:49:00 <Diablo-D3> =|
442 2011-03-11 06:49:05 <Diablo-D3> make up your fucking mind wikipedia
443 2011-03-11 06:49:29 <Diablo-D3> So, for example, an earthquake that measures 5.0 on the Richter scale has a shaking amplitude 10 times larger than one that measures 4.0.
444 2011-03-11 06:49:48 <cosurgi> what are those unconfirmed transactions on http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ ?
445 2011-03-11 06:49:52 <genjix> i think that an earthquake is a transverse wave, so the sqrt comes from the energy equation for SH-motion
446 2011-03-11 06:50:06 <genjix> but not sure where that ^3 comes from
447 2011-03-11 06:51:14 <Diablo-D3> fGFvzdghshsdzg
448 2011-03-11 06:51:42 <Diablo-D3> see the graph at the bottom of that wikipedia page
449 2011-03-11 06:51:45 <Diablo-D3> er
450 2011-03-11 06:51:46 <Diablo-D3> table
451 2011-03-11 06:51:52 <Diablo-D3> 32.0 on the fuck you scale
452 2011-03-11 06:52:33 <genjix> lmao
453 2011-03-11 06:52:40 <genjix> "Epic earthquake"
454 2011-03-11 07:03:34 <genjix> incredible, http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/315086870
455 2011-03-11 07:03:44 <genjix> so we can take down videos from youtube.
456 2011-03-11 07:14:39 <MagicalTux> genjix, it's still moving
457 2011-03-11 07:14:44 <MagicalTux> I'm back in the office, but all the stuff is moving
458 2011-03-11 07:20:09 <genjix> MagicalTux: are you ok dude? there's the big earthquake hapening
459 2011-03-11 07:23:00 <MagicalTux> genjix, still moves
460 2011-03-11 07:23:06 <MagicalTux> I'm finishing stuff here and I'll be heading home
461 2011-03-11 07:23:28 <genjix> ahh :p
462 2011-03-11 07:30:27 <genjix> be safe
463 2011-03-11 07:31:12 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux is japanese?
464 2011-03-11 07:33:01 <genjix> nah he lives there tho
465 2011-03-11 07:36:40 <MagicalTux> my real name is not Satoshi
466 2011-03-11 07:44:26 <genjix> yep you only use that for your bitcoin commits
467 2011-03-11 07:45:55 <BlueMatt> :O
468 2011-03-11 07:46:02 <mizerydearia> da2ce7,  Can yuo tell us anything aboout the earthquake and if Australia is in danger?
469 2011-03-11 07:46:24 <da2ce7> no issue... they say that the waves will be small
470 2011-03-11 07:46:43 <BlueMatt> mizerydearia: read the news...
471 2011-03-11 07:46:50 <genjix> see this insane video, http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/sot.tsunami.hit.japan.cnn?hpt=T1
472 2011-03-11 07:46:57 <mizerydearia> where at?
473 2011-03-11 07:47:02 <genjix> tsunami on fire
474 2011-03-11 07:47:51 <BlueMatt> mizerydearia: I dont know news.yahoo.com news.google.com?
475 2011-03-11 07:48:11 <genjix> or /. ? http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/11/0722228/88-Earthquake-Near-Japanese-Coast
476 2011-03-11 07:48:25 <mizerydearia> any video footage?
477 2011-03-11 07:48:30 <BlueMatt> dont think that is a full story...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_japan_earthquake_pacific;_ylt=AkxruthPmyl3ZZWxTw9Q1jKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNqdDQwMm52BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMzExL2FzX2phcGFuX2VhcnRocXVha2UEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwM2BHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawN0c3VuYW1pY2VudGU-
478 2011-03-11 07:48:30 <genjix> and 4chan http://boards.4chan.org/b/
479 2011-03-11 07:48:33 <BlueMatt> "HONOLULU  A tsunami warning issued by the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii after a large earthquake in Japan was widened beyond East Asia late Thursday to include Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico and Central and South America and the rest of the Pacific Ocean."
480 2011-03-11 07:48:39 <BlueMatt> so, yes australia too
481 2011-03-11 07:48:41 <mizerydearia> live video footage?
482 2011-03-11 07:49:20 <mizerydearia> http://i.imgur.com/r9eNJ.jpg
483 2011-03-11 07:49:23 <genjix> mizerydearia: check my 1st link
484 2011-03-11 07:49:37 <mizerydearia> /. ?
485 2011-03-11 07:50:05 <genjix> no
486 2011-03-11 07:50:11 <mizerydearia> http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
487 2011-03-11 07:50:12 <genjix> see this insane video, http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/11/sot.tsunami.hit.japan.cnn?hpt=T1
488 2011-03-11 07:50:16 <genjix> 08:46 < mizerydearia> where at?
489 2011-03-11 07:50:18 <genjix> 08:47 < genjix> tsunami on fire
490 2011-03-11 07:52:31 <mizerydearia> tsunami warning for 53 different countries around pacific rim
491 2011-03-11 07:52:43 <genjix> MagicalTux: go surfing!
492 2011-03-11 07:54:08 <genjix> http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1299833604518.jpg
493 2011-03-11 07:54:10 <genjix> haha
494 2011-03-11 07:54:43 <jgarzik> I don't doubt there's a tsunami warning, with 8.9 quake...
495 2011-03-11 07:54:47 <[Tycho]> http://www.jiji.com/jc/d4?d=d4_topics&p=eqa200-jlp10575297
496 2011-03-11 07:55:14 <mizerydearia> http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/46105484297646080
497 2011-03-11 07:56:49 <mizerydearia> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/foxtokimekitonight       live japanese tv of what's going on
498 2011-03-11 07:58:31 <mizerydearia> wow
499 2011-03-11 07:58:56 <mizerydearia> video footage of inside buildings internally collapsing
500 2011-03-11 08:00:47 <BlueMatt> yea 8.9 is pretty huge
501 2011-03-11 08:01:07 <Diablo-D3> yeah Japan is now missing.
502 2011-03-11 08:08:39 <genjix> http://boards.4chan.org/b/
503 2011-03-11 08:09:20 <genjix> it's all over 4chan :p weird
504 2011-03-11 08:09:44 <mizerydearia> btw, here is timeline http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2011/03/11/lhvpd9/01/ttvulhvpd9-01.jpg
505 2011-03-11 08:13:01 <jrabbit> genjix: its not weird
506 2011-03-11 08:13:38 <genjix> jrabbit: yeah it is. how many times on /b/ you see 4 threads on 1 topic dominating the front page?
507 2011-03-11 08:13:39 <jrabbit> its how the multiperson organism keeps its actors
508 2011-03-11 08:14:21 <mizerydearia> btw, how many hours ago was the earthquake?
509 2011-03-11 08:15:15 <mizerydearia> 1hr?
510 2011-03-11 08:16:00 <genjix> http://inspirescience.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/carl_sagan2.jpg
511 2011-03-11 08:16:22 <genjix> lol google has a warning on their front page
512 2011-03-11 08:17:01 <[Tycho]> No.
513 2011-03-11 08:19:44 <Diablo-D3> like 3hr ago
514 2011-03-11 08:22:23 <BlueMatt> nice google
515 2011-03-11 08:22:50 <genjix> someone's offering me a free amazon EC2 vps
516 2011-03-11 08:22:56 <genjix> but amazon shutdown wikileaks
517 2011-03-11 08:23:01 <BlueMatt> so give it to me
518 2011-03-11 08:23:02 <genjix> boycott or accept?
519 2011-03-11 08:23:21 <genjix> nah it's for a project i've made :p
520 2011-03-11 08:23:37 <BlueMatt> Unless it is as illigal as wikileaks, id take it
521 2011-03-11 08:23:55 <genjix> nah I'm going to boycott them.
522 2011-03-11 08:24:12 <genjix> paypal/ebay/amazon/visa <- stay away from that shit.
523 2011-03-11 08:26:34 <mizerydearia> I would agree.  boycott
524 2011-03-11 08:26:42 <mizerydearia> Don't accept evil
525 2011-03-11 08:27:22 <mizerydearia> which reminds me...  many years ago during an interview, Anton Szander Lavey pointed out that evil is live backwards
526 2011-03-11 08:28:11 <BlueMatt> I dont think amazon is so evil, keep in mind they received a letter from people in congress that said wikileaks is evil etc
527 2011-03-11 08:28:47 <genjix> DRM
528 2011-03-11 08:28:55 <genjix> deleting books off people's kindles
529 2011-03-11 08:28:57 <genjix> FUCK THEM
530 2011-03-11 08:29:08 <BlueMatt> ok that was a bad move
531 2011-03-11 08:29:25 <mizerydearia> it's not a game
532 2011-03-11 08:29:38 <mizerydearia> clearly they are evil and will only aim to convince you that they are not
533 2011-03-11 08:29:52 <BlueMatt> so, in that case who is not evil?
534 2011-03-11 08:30:03 <mizerydearia> I think they have enough computing resources to have the best aimbot
535 2011-03-11 08:30:05 <genjix> me
536 2011-03-11 08:30:08 <genjix> freenode
537 2011-03-11 08:30:10 <mizerydearia> Satoshi isn't evil
538 2011-03-11 08:30:11 <genjix> canonical
539 2011-03-11 08:30:20 <mizerydearia> gavin isn't evil
540 2011-03-11 08:30:30 <mizerydearia> I don't think Linus Torvalds is evil
541 2011-03-11 08:30:45 <mizerydearia> EFF isn't evil
542 2011-03-11 08:30:55 <mizerydearia> theymos definitely isn't evil
543 2011-03-11 08:31:00 <genjix> some of the bitcoin people are evil though
544 2011-03-11 08:31:05 <mizerydearia> some, yes
545 2011-03-11 08:31:06 <mizerydearia> like me
546 2011-03-11 08:31:17 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4246.0
547 2011-03-11 08:31:18 <mizerydearia> create a witcoin account NAO or I will throw bitcoins at you!
548 2011-03-11 08:31:21 <BlueMatt> in your definitions canonical is definatley evil
549 2011-03-11 08:31:48 <genjix> they seem pretty cool
550 2011-03-11 08:32:42 <mizerydearia> "What can't wasn't really designed to live in the first place." this statement has evil influence
551 2011-03-11 08:32:59 <BlueMatt> except for landscape and the whole gnome stuff
552 2011-03-11 08:33:27 <genjix> he's saying humans are selfish bastards and the less fortunate are meant to suffer (and we should let them)
553 2011-03-11 08:33:58 <genjix> which is ofc ridiculous... but i suppose bitcoin attracts all sorts
554 2011-03-11 08:34:20 <mizerydearia> I would imagine so http://warp.povusers.org/SortComparison/
555 2011-03-11 08:35:03 <mizerydearia> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8g-iYGHpEA
556 2011-03-11 08:37:11 <mizerydearia> The Tokyo 'quake is now believed to be the 5th-largest in recorded history.
557 2011-03-11 08:38:21 <genjix> w00t
558 2011-03-11 08:38:32 <BlueMatt> I dont think thats a good thing
559 2011-03-11 08:38:59 <genjix> clapclap
560 2011-03-11 08:40:16 <mizerydearia> I am confused about something...
561 2011-03-11 08:40:26 <mizerydearia> yen value dropped after earthquake
562 2011-03-11 08:40:47 <mizerydearia> in what way does the currency have affect from regional events?
563 2011-03-11 08:41:05 <mizerydearia> or, more importantly, what kind of natural disaster impacts would affect the value of bitcoin?
564 2011-03-11 08:41:46 <[Tycho]> Internet failure.
565 2011-03-11 08:42:14 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin economy is way too small to effected by pretty much anything which effects normal currencies
566 2011-03-11 08:42:19 <BlueMatt> but yea, internet failure would do it
567 2011-03-11 08:43:23 <genjix> bitcoin is secure
568 2011-03-11 08:43:27 <genjix> - high bus factor
569 2011-03-11 08:43:40 <genjix> - high mining difficulty from many miners
570 2011-03-11 08:43:51 <edcba> bus factor ?
571 2011-03-11 08:43:54 <edcba> what is that ?
572 2011-03-11 08:44:25 <genjix> well 1 year ago when bitcoin was unknown and it was just satoshi
573 2011-03-11 08:44:44 <genjix> the bus factor was 1 person (if a bus run over satoshi then the project would die)
574 2011-03-11 08:45:17 <genjix> now there's > a dozen devs who know bitcoin and would work on it if say gavin got run over by a bus
575 2011-03-11 08:46:06 <genjix> so it's cool because bitcoin got over those 2 bumps (dev bootstrapping & mining monopolisation by a gpu miner)
576 2011-03-11 08:46:17 <genjix> luck?
577 2011-03-11 08:47:22 <Aciid> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4355.msg63882#msg63882
578 2011-03-11 08:47:24 <Aciid> hahahhahaha
579 2011-03-11 08:53:59 <mizerydearia> high bus factor?  is that opposite of short bus factor?
580 2011-03-11 08:55:03 <[Tycho]> Wide bus ?
581 2011-03-11 09:00:51 <d4de> There is also another factor, which is legislators prohibiting the use of bitcoins as it facilitates money laundering, that would totally crush the market, as more and more people will be arrested, and bitcoin users and devs will be forced to go underground
582 2011-03-11 09:10:31 <Aciid> [Tycho]: ETA for new statistics?
583 2011-03-11 09:10:39 <Aciid> features
584 2011-03-11 09:10:49 <xelister> hi
585 2011-03-11 09:10:57 <Aciid> hioo
586 2011-03-11 09:11:01 <xelister> so earthquake, huh
587 2011-03-11 09:11:18 <Aciid> yeah
588 2011-03-11 09:11:20 <xelister> am I complete ass for wondering how this affects current diff? Anyone monitors recent changes in estimated totall hashpower?
589 2011-03-11 09:11:29 <[Tycho]> Aciid, which ones exactly ?
590 2011-03-11 09:11:52 <Aciid> [Tycho]: didn't you said , you'd work with statistics more a few days ago?
591 2011-03-11 09:12:17 <[Tycho]> Do you see any changes on worker page ?
592 2011-03-11 09:13:04 <Aciid> [Tycho]: oh great
593 2011-03-11 09:13:12 <[Tycho]> I think that i'll deploy them at the same time as new miner. May be today.
594 2011-03-11 09:27:02 <lfm> a graph of  recent changes in estimated totall hashpower day by day going back to the start of bitcoin at http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
595 2011-03-11 09:27:49 <sipa> lfm: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
596 2011-03-11 09:28:12 <sipa> there it's visible as well
597 2011-03-11 09:28:33 <lfm> thr drop off the last couple days? ya
598 2011-03-11 09:29:37 <Aciid> falling on our asses
599 2011-03-11 09:29:50 <lfm> minor correction
600 2011-03-11 09:29:53 <sipa> it's just MM who left :)
601 2011-03-11 09:30:02 <lfm> you sure?
602 2011-03-11 09:30:08 <sipa> quite
603 2011-03-11 09:30:15 <Aciid> y
604 2011-03-11 09:30:18 <lfm> maybe some other(s) too
605 2011-03-11 09:32:50 <Spenvo> there's a post about it http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4355.0
606 2011-03-11 09:33:17 <TD> he actually did match the network didn't he
607 2011-03-11 09:33:24 <TD> or she
608 2011-03-11 09:33:35 <TD> i wonder if this guy was trying to reverse a transaction
609 2011-03-11 09:33:49 <TD> that'd fit the "match 50% of the network for a while, go away again" profile
610 2011-03-11 09:33:54 <sipa> i think he did have 50% of the network at a certain point
611 2011-03-11 09:33:57 <sipa> but not for long
612 2011-03-11 09:36:52 <Spenvo> yikes
613 2011-03-11 09:39:00 <Spenvo> if someone has enough resources and determination, it could happen--and part of me thinks its inevitable
614 2011-03-11 09:39:06 <TD> if he successfully reversed a transaction would anyone notice?
615 2011-03-11 09:39:19 <TD> Spenvo: yeah it is. i was thinking a few weeks ago we'd probably see a botnet reverse a transaction some time in 2011
616 2011-03-11 09:39:33 <TD> bitcoin is very attractive to elements of the criminal underground who need hard electronic money
617 2011-03-11 09:39:45 <TD> so it's inevitable that disputes between these people might result in a network attack
618 2011-03-11 09:40:21 <Spenvo> very true, as evidenced by their attacks on banking systems
619 2011-03-11 09:40:30 <lfm> I dont think he had a mojority long enuf to reverse 6 blocks (a confirmed txn)
620 2011-03-11 09:41:03 <Spenvo> but he could have
621 2011-03-11 09:41:47 <Spenvo> TD: was that point brought up by your colleagues?
622 2011-03-11 09:42:06 <TD> somebody did mention botnets yes. it's a common thing to think about.
623 2011-03-11 09:42:07 <lfm> well I dont see the evidence if he did. a plot of block discovery rates isnt enuf evidence for me
624 2011-03-11 09:42:27 <TD> i think the block explorer will flag it if somebody reverses 6 blocks
625 2011-03-11 09:42:34 <TD> i vaguely recall theymos saying that
626 2011-03-11 09:43:22 <Spenvo> right, i have thought of it too, the current processing power is equivalent to less than half of the world's fastest supercomputer
627 2011-03-11 09:43:25 <lfm> it nay not be visible to all nodes. any specific node such as the block explorer may never see a reversal happen
628 2011-03-11 09:43:49 <Spenvo> td: a sophisticated and well timed attack could take down block explorer
629 2011-03-11 09:43:50 <xelister> any change in totall hash power recently?
630 2011-03-11 09:44:02 <TD> probably not the bitcoin node it's running off though
631 2011-03-11 09:44:04 <xelister> oh, http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png  http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
632 2011-03-11 09:44:12 <TD> Spenvo: well it depends how you define "supercomputer"
633 2011-03-11 09:44:29 <lfm> total hash power ESTIMATES do show a suspicious pattern
634 2011-03-11 09:44:33 <Aciid> Spenvo: no need of a supercomputer...
635 2011-03-11 09:44:39 <TD> but i made the point that even though the bitcoin network is tiny today, you'd already need a 500,000 machine botnet to have any hope of attacking it
636 2011-03-11 09:44:49 <TD> and that number is going up all the time as new people get involved
637 2011-03-11 09:44:57 <Aciid> yea
638 2011-03-11 09:45:08 <TD> assuming growth rate continues to be good by EOY2011 there won't be any botnets that can do cpu based attacks on the network
639 2011-03-11 09:45:19 <Aciid> to control a 500,000 user botnet.. its not quite easy to do accurate timings
640 2011-03-11 09:45:31 <Aciid> even IRC struggles when you try to control ~100-500
641 2011-03-11 09:45:36 <lfm> td botnets could use gpus too
642 2011-03-11 09:45:38 <TD> you'd have to ship code to the bots that understands how to do different sorts of gpu miners, handles buggy drivers, avoids being noticed when fans spin up etc. it'd be a pita.
643 2011-03-11 09:45:43 <TD> with difficulty
644 2011-03-11 09:45:57 <Aciid> TD: most botnets are servers
645 2011-03-11 09:46:00 <Spenvo> good points
646 2011-03-11 09:46:03 <Aciid> PHP exploits
647 2011-03-11 09:46:03 <sipa> but you'd only need a few thousand instead of hundreds of thousands
648 2011-03-11 09:46:21 <TD> yes hacked servers don't have any possibility to do gpu mining. and desktops, well, it'd be a huge effort.
649 2011-03-11 09:46:24 <lfm> td they might not care if a bunch of em lock up
650 2011-03-11 09:46:57 <TD> lfm: most pay-per-install guys do care because they don't want their dropper to be cleaned up by the owner
651 2011-03-11 09:47:11 <TD> botnets try to be stealthy for as long as possible these days
652 2011-03-11 09:47:30 <Spenvo> td: and before eoy2011, if a botnet does attack, and it's clear that's what's happened, would that not stunt growth?
653 2011-03-11 09:47:55 <TD> possibly
654 2011-03-11 09:47:59 <lfm> locking up a windows machine isnt always evidence of infection, windows locks up if you look at it sideways
655 2011-03-11 09:48:16 <Aciid> botnets =! wormnets , botnet = easily detectable , easily blocked main communication channels , wormnets = hard to detect, hard to prevent communication because of encryped schema
656 2011-03-11 09:48:39 <Aciid> lfm: hahhah
657 2011-03-11 09:48:39 <TD> people brought up botnets as why bitcoin can't work since day 1
658 2011-03-11 09:48:50 <TD> yet here we are .... people are trading and using the system
659 2011-03-11 09:49:10 <Aciid> fuck botnets, we will gather the coins before the skiddies do
660 2011-03-11 09:49:20 <Aciid> were here and were queer
661 2011-03-11 09:50:35 <Spenvo> true, i understand that, but mysteryminer showed there is either a legitimate or illegitimate interest in quickly spiking the system - i'm done fear mongering for the night
662 2011-03-11 09:50:56 <Spenvo> you brought it up TD ;)
663 2011-03-11 09:51:20 <TD> heh
664 2011-03-11 09:51:32 <TD> so i did
665 2011-03-11 09:51:48 <Spenvo> we all want bitcoin to succeed and disrupt and do great things
666 2011-03-11 09:51:52 <lfm> anyway it is a LOT less significant that the 2010 July slashdor event
667 2011-03-11 09:52:06 <sipa> in relative terms... absolutely
668 2011-03-11 09:52:12 <Spenvo> wasn't around then, what happened?
669 2011-03-11 09:52:26 <sipa> but in absolute ones... it was a f*cking spike of 400GH/s at its peak
670 2011-03-11 09:52:30 <lfm> difficulty hit the 4x increase limit
671 2011-03-11 09:52:46 <sipa> total hash rate increases 10x in a few days time
672 2011-03-11 09:52:49 <sipa> back then
673 2011-03-11 09:52:55 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png
674 2011-03-11 09:52:58 <ArtForz> mid-july
675 2011-03-11 09:53:10 <Aciid> jesus
676 2011-03-11 09:53:10 <lfm> more like nearly 1000x
677 2011-03-11 09:53:16 <Aciid> but are they still with us?
678 2011-03-11 09:53:18 <Aciid> it didn't drop
679 2011-03-11 09:53:44 <lfm> right
680 2011-03-11 09:53:50 <sipa> no, 10x :)
681 2011-03-11 09:54:24 <ArtForz> yeah, that was pretty much 10x overnight
682 2011-03-11 09:54:27 <Spenvo> wow
683 2011-03-11 09:54:35 <da2ce7> when you look at in exp, it dosn't look much of a drop
684 2011-03-11 09:54:42 <ArtForz> and shortly after GPU mining took off
685 2011-03-11 09:54:45 <da2ce7> the thing is that we get cought up in the short term
686 2011-03-11 09:55:21 <sipa> i think it's the largest relative drop since somewhere last year we experienced now, though
687 2011-03-11 09:55:46 <ArtForz> yeah
688 2011-03-11 09:55:51 <da2ce7> yep
689 2011-03-11 09:56:04 <ArtForz> imo having mining botnets per se isn't too big a deal
690 2011-03-11 09:56:07 <lfm> last May there was a difficulty drop of similar relative proportions
691 2011-03-11 09:56:13 <da2ce7> but the diff isn't going to ajust down two times running
692 2011-03-11 09:56:13 <Spenvo> those were the days; people got rich, everybody was gettin' laid
693 2011-03-11 09:56:33 <ArtForz> only problem is when a single one gets a majority
694 2011-03-11 09:56:33 <xelister> I wonder if JP quake has effect
695 2011-03-11 09:57:38 <UukGoblin> we'll soon see how much mining was happening in Japan...
696 2011-03-11 09:57:40 <sipa> if some botnets combined get a majority, that may be mad as well
697 2011-03-11 09:57:45 <sipa> *bad
698 2011-03-11 09:57:55 <xelister> MAD
699 2011-03-11 09:57:57 <sipa> since that may make "legitimate" mining unprofitable
700 2011-03-11 09:58:42 <UukGoblin> xelister, the diff started falling a few days ago
701 2011-03-11 09:58:59 <Spenvo> the longer btc is around, the harder it is to pull off, but the more likely it will be attempted (if the value of BTC continues to rise)
702 2011-03-11 09:59:27 <ArtForz> of course difficulty started falling
703 2011-03-11 09:59:45 <Spenvo> or i could tell them about the secret back door, but i wouldn't do that
704 2011-03-11 10:00:19 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
705 2011-03-11 10:02:06 <Spenvo> he does eclipse the network hash capacity twice
706 2011-03-11 10:02:09 <lfm> ArtForz: I havent heard the explanation for how that graph separated out the MM hashes?
707 2011-03-11 10:02:19 <da2ce7> that link isn't loading for me.
708 2011-03-11 10:02:25 <ArtForz> lfm: easy, different bnExtraNonce in coinbase
709 2011-03-11 10:02:48 <ArtForz> normal miners produce a 1-byte extranonce
710 2011-03-11 10:02:56 <ArtForz> tychos pool produces a 4-byte one
711 2011-03-11 10:03:11 <sipa> MM often produced a 2-byte one
712 2011-03-11 10:03:13 <ArtForz> whatever that was, it has a 2-byte coinbase
713 2011-03-11 10:03:18 <ArtForz> yep
714 2011-03-11 10:03:40 <da2ce7> ok... bblater, format time!
715 2011-03-11 10:04:32 <ArtForz> now the question is... why did it suddenly stop
716 2011-03-11 10:05:26 <tcatm> the mm graph was made from his wallet: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1PT3YvvKnNqT1513Vs9dZ59eU1gq7xQADc
717 2011-03-11 10:05:55 <ArtForz> yeah, that move was just boneheaded
718 2011-03-11 10:05:57 <BlueMatt> some one is rich
719 2011-03-11 10:06:23 <BlueMatt> or they want to show off their winings
720 2011-03-11 10:06:44 <ArtForz> I mean, I have nearly that much sitting in my savings wallet, but all as unspent generations
721 2011-03-11 10:07:12 <BlueMatt> well some people dont have the mining equipment you have Art
722 2011-03-11 10:07:19 <ArtForz> moving everything into one addr is just asking to get tracked
723 2011-03-11 10:08:52 <BlueMatt> yea pretty much
724 2011-03-11 10:10:21 <ArtForz> doesnt matter much in the long run, but imo shows that the whole op wasnt thought through very well
725 2011-03-11 10:11:25 <Spenvo> after all of this talk about bitcoin's vulnerabilities, compare it to GPS something we rely upon for critical services: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20202-gps-chaos-how-a-30-box-can-jam-your-life.html
726 2011-03-11 10:11:27 <TD> or the miner is sending his money to somebody else who isn't a technical user
727 2011-03-11 10:11:31 <BlueMatt> probably someone testing if they could do ti
728 2011-03-11 10:11:35 <BlueMatt> it*
729 2011-03-11 10:11:36 <TD> and doesn't want to screw about with wallet imports and -rescan and stuff
730 2011-03-11 10:12:30 <TD> Spenvo: only the USA relies on gps for mobile service ;)
731 2011-03-11 10:12:54 <Spenvo> exactly! and guess where i live
732 2011-03-11 10:13:05 <Spenvo> sigh
733 2011-03-11 10:13:07 <BlueMatt> TD: no gps is relied on in many plces
734 2011-03-11 10:13:10 <BlueMatt> places*
735 2011-03-11 10:13:21 <ArtForz> still stupid to put it all in one addr, moving it into two dozen or so addrs and sending random <1k amounts around for a while makes claiming "bought those from some random guy I dont rememeber" a lot easier
736 2011-03-11 10:13:21 <TD> it's a feature of CDMA
737 2011-03-11 10:13:56 <BlueMatt> TD: its also used for a lot of devices to check time, including atms, etc
738 2011-03-11 10:14:30 <ArtForz> btw, that excuse should be called pulling a baron ;)
739 2011-03-11 10:14:47 <bxc> hows gps used in CDMA? for timing? or position?
740 2011-03-11 10:15:11 <TD> timing
741 2011-03-11 10:15:57 <Spenvo> guys, been a pleasure, irc is too damn distracting, gotta go
742 2011-03-11 10:16:01 <TD> BlueMatt: the article actually says nobody knows why the ATMs stopped working :)
743 2011-03-11 10:16:06 <TD> cya Spenvo
744 2011-03-11 10:16:20 <BlueMatt> TD: its gps based, no one really knows exactly why though
745 2011-03-11 10:16:43 <Spenvo> thx TD - keep making the world a better place
746 2011-03-11 10:25:54 <FellowTraveler> hi all
747 2011-03-11 10:34:24 <lfm> hi
748 2011-03-11 10:39:00 <BlueMatt> hello
749 2011-03-11 10:51:39 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
750 2011-03-11 10:51:41 <gribble> 113130
751 2011-03-11 10:55:49 <gribble> 67332.98466748
752 2011-03-11 10:55:49 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
753 2011-03-11 11:02:22 <eps1> ;;b,stats
754 2011-03-11 11:02:22 <gribble> Error: "b,stats" is not a valid command.
755 2011-03-11 11:02:25 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
756 2011-03-11 11:02:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113130 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1781 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 24 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 67332.98466748
757 2011-03-11 11:16:12 <[Tycho]> http://l-pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/013ft2c0.jpg
758 2011-03-11 11:16:43 <BlueMatt> dam, welcome to 2012
759 2011-03-11 11:17:01 <[Tycho]> Looks more impressive on video
760 2011-03-11 11:17:17 <BlueMatt> Is http://www.codeproject.com/info/cpol10.aspx compatible with bitcoin's license?
761 2011-03-11 11:28:22 <edcba> isn't bitcoin gpl ?
762 2011-03-11 11:28:46 <ArtForz> no
763 2011-03-11 11:29:07 <edcba> what is it then ?
764 2011-03-11 11:29:08 <edcba> mit ?
765 2011-03-11 11:29:18 <ArtForz> looks like mit, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/license.txt
766 2011-03-11 11:29:57 <ArtForz> yep, MIT
767 2011-03-11 11:30:15 <edcba> anyway cpol doesn't look like much compatible with anything : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Project_Open_License :)
768 2011-03-11 11:31:20 <edcba> and what about dependancies ?
769 2011-03-11 11:31:23 <BlueMatt> shame
770 2011-03-11 11:32:21 <ArtForz> thats kinda... a problem
771 2011-03-11 11:33:03 <ArtForz> we statically link boost, bdb and openssl libcrypto
772 2011-03-11 11:34:13 <edcba> wx ?
773 2011-03-11 11:34:58 <ArtForz> well, that too for bitcoin GUI
774 2011-03-11 11:35:08 <edcba> seems you are ok with all if you mentioned them somewhere
775 2011-03-11 11:35:31 <edcba> hmmm
776 2011-03-11 11:35:33 <ArtForz> bdb is a bit of a problem
777 2011-03-11 11:35:35 <edcba> not really in fact
778 2011-03-11 11:35:39 <ousado> which code from codeproject do you need?
779 2011-03-11 11:35:43 <edcba> yes bdb requires some source
780 2011-03-11 11:35:47 <ArtForz> its under sleepycat, which is pretty gpl-like
781 2011-03-11 11:36:11 <edcba> * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on
782 2011-03-11 11:36:13 <edcba> *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.
783 2011-03-11 11:38:16 <ArtForz> aka "whoops"
784 2011-03-11 11:38:45 <subpar> room for improvement ;-)
785 2011-03-11 11:40:05 <ArtForz> IANAL, but that sounds like one would need a commercial bdb license to distribute a modified bitcoin w/o source
786 2011-03-11 11:45:19 <ArtForz> boost is MIT, ossl is ossl/ssleay license, aka modified 4-clause BSD
787 2011-03-11 11:46:29 <BlueMatt> god who decided we needed so many licenses
788 2011-03-11 11:49:50 <ArtForz> wx is weakened lgpl, zlib is 3-clause BSD, glibc lgpl
789 2011-03-11 11:51:13 <lfm> so basiclly it is impossible to write legal software
790 2011-03-11 11:51:18 <ArtForz> nah
791 2011-03-11 11:52:45 <ArtForz> as far as I can tell that mans "all" you need to distribute modified bitcoin without source is a commercial bdb license
792 2011-03-11 11:53:11 <ArtForz> and a whole bunch of copyright notices in your docs
793 2011-03-11 11:53:18 <lfm> I think it become subject to a godel incompleteness theory. You can never find all the rules you are subject to.
794 2011-03-11 11:53:38 <Keefe> how hard would it be to switch to a different db to avoid even the bdb license?
795 2011-03-11 11:54:10 <ArtForz> not too hard, looks like the db stuff is pretty well encapsulated in db.c/h
796 2011-03-11 11:54:47 <lfm> you might be able to use gnu-db but I heard it sucks so you might not want to
797 2011-03-11 11:55:12 <Keefe> what db would you recommend if one wanted to avoid any licensing?
798 2011-03-11 11:55:32 <lfm> they're all licenced one way or another
799 2011-03-11 11:55:45 <Keefe> and distribute a modified binary
800 2011-03-11 11:56:02 <ArtForz> sqlite ?
801 2011-03-11 11:56:54 <Keefe> "All of the deliverable code in SQLite has been dedicated to the public domain by the authors."
802 2011-03-11 11:56:59 <lfm> Keefe: you mean to keep the source private?
803 2011-03-11 11:57:42 <Keefe> i was just following the discussion, with ArtForz mentioning "distribute modified bitcoin without source"
804 2011-03-11 11:58:01 <Keefe> i'm not saying i'd support a closed-source bitcoin
805 2011-03-11 11:58:05 <ArtForz> well, thats the general difference between BSD/MIT and copyleft ala GPL
806 2011-03-11 11:59:05 <ArtForz> jut though its interesting
807 2011-03-11 11:59:37 <ArtForz> so the only part preventing closed-source derivatives is... bdb
808 2011-03-11 11:59:43 <Keefe> fyi, i know almost nothing about this license stuff
809 2011-03-11 12:00:21 <mmarker> genjix?
810 2011-03-11 12:01:06 <Keefe> haha, if you really must have a license for sqlite... "For a one-time fee of US $1000.00 we will add your company name and contact information to a copy of the sample license agreement, sign the completed license, and send you the original signed copy by post and a scan of the signed document by email."
811 2011-03-11 12:02:03 <Keefe> that follows "Even though SQLite is in the public domain and does not require a license, some users want to obtain a license anyway."
812 2011-03-11 12:02:19 <mmarker> Keefe: Wonder how many people took them up on the offer.
813 2011-03-11 12:02:34 <mmarker> and how many of those were serious vs. "hey, let's give them a grand since they kick ass"
814 2011-03-11 12:02:40 <Keefe> :)
815 2011-03-11 12:03:02 <Keefe> they deserve the latter for their contribution
816 2011-03-11 12:03:50 <Keefe> they = sqlite devs
817 2011-03-11 12:05:50 <mmarker> Honestly, it's projects like those, the guts and infrastructure, people tend to forget. Everyone goes gaga over a UI or end user experience, but does anyone thank the poor bastards who do some of that icky internal work...
818 2011-03-11 12:12:52 <luke-jr> did the Tokyo Tower go down yet?
819 2011-03-11 12:14:33 <[Tycho]> Just a bit.
820 2011-03-11 12:14:54 <Aciid> bye bye satoshi
821 2011-03-11 12:15:10 <Aciid> death of an alterego
822 2011-03-11 12:15:16 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, http://www.jiji.com/jc/d4?d=d4_topics&p=eqa200-jlp10575297
823 2011-03-11 12:15:20 <mmarker> Actually, if I was in a major quake, I'd want to be in Japan of all places
824 2011-03-11 12:19:17 <mmarker> Tycho: Great shot there. Looks like the design is doing what it should be doing...slide like hell
825 2011-03-11 12:19:38 <xelister> Fuck linux filesystem in the ass
826 2011-03-11 12:19:44 <xelister> linux suscks donkey cocks.
827 2011-03-11 12:20:07 <xelister> computer hanged partially,  sys+rq+Sync, Boot it... and a file saved few hours BEFORE got destroyed. WTF?!?!?!
828 2011-03-11 12:20:42 <tcatm> forgot to remount ro?
829 2011-03-11 12:21:00 <xelister> tcatm: what?
830 2011-03-11 12:21:05 <tcatm> sysrq+u
831 2011-03-11 12:21:12 <xelister> what the fuck for
832 2011-03-11 12:21:26 <tcatm> to prevent changes to the filesystem
833 2011-03-11 12:21:30 <xelister> if it fucked up the file saved HOURS AGO, then clearly the fs suckc cocks
834 2011-03-11 12:21:31 <BlueMatt> its REISUB
835 2011-03-11 12:21:41 <sipa> what fs?
836 2011-03-11 12:21:50 <mmarker> and not if the file is still open somewhere
837 2011-03-11 12:21:53 <xelister> ext3
838 2011-03-11 12:21:54 <xelister> ext4
839 2011-03-11 12:22:02 <tcatm> sysrq+u, wait a few minutes, sysrq+s, wait again, sysrq+b
840 2011-03-11 12:22:04 <BlueMatt> xelister: aren't you supposed to reisub not just s?
841 2011-03-11 12:22:26 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisub
842 2011-03-11 12:22:30 <xelister> well fuck that shit is still shouldnt happen
843 2011-03-11 12:22:43 <xelister> ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime)
844 2011-03-11 12:23:05 <BlueMatt> xelister: have to reisub myself occasionally, never seen anything like this
845 2011-03-11 12:23:17 <BlueMatt> maybe you didnt wait long enough and there was some kind of corruption?
846 2011-03-11 12:23:26 <xelister> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
847 2011-03-11 12:24:20 <tcatm> better install a backup software
848 2011-03-11 12:24:25 <BlueMatt> or maybe you just did sysrq s and rebooted, without sysrq r to reclaim keyboard input from X, ie you didnt type anything into the kernel
849 2011-03-11 12:29:26 <BlueMatt> is bitcoin's license compatible with GPL?
850 2011-03-11 12:32:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sortof.
851 2011-03-11 12:33:07 <luke-jr> GPL will gladly infect it.
852 2011-03-11 12:33:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, nevermind
853 2011-03-11 12:33:16 <mmarker> What IS bitcoin's license?
854 2011-03-11 12:33:25 <luke-jr> but it cannot *remain* BSD licensed, if you add GPL code to it
855 2011-03-11 12:33:48 <BlueMatt> mits mit isnt it?
856 2011-03-11 12:33:59 <luke-jr> oh, maybe
857 2011-03-11 12:34:07 <luke-jr> MIT, X11, and BSD are all pretty much the same
858 2011-03-11 12:34:12 <BlueMatt> fair enogh
859 2011-03-11 12:49:19 <Kiba> earthquake in Japan!
860 2011-03-11 12:49:26 <Kiba> hope MagicalTux is alright
861 2011-03-11 12:49:54 <sipa> 09:14:44 < MagicalTux> I'm back in the office, but all the stuff is moving
862 2011-03-11 12:50:32 <Blitzboom> hes in japan?
863 2011-03-11 12:52:15 <ne0futur> he is alright
864 2011-03-11 12:52:22 <ne0futur> twitted after the quake
865 2011-03-11 12:52:28 <ne0futur> https://twitter.com/#!/MagicalTux/
866 2011-03-11 12:53:04 <ne0futur> biggest earthquake for the last 140 years
867 2011-03-11 12:53:26 <ne0futur> here in Peru we re waiting for the tsunami . . . on the other side of the pacific
868 2011-03-11 12:53:33 <BlueMatt> he spoke on here after the quake as well
869 2011-03-11 12:53:55 <BlueMatt> <MagicalTux> genjix, it's still moving
870 2011-03-11 12:53:56 <BlueMatt> <MagicalTux> I'm finishing stuff here and I'll be heading home
871 2011-03-11 12:54:06 <ne0futur> http://www.weather.gov/ptwc/text.php?id=pacific.2011.03.11.073000
872 2011-03-11 12:54:13 <Xunie> BlueMatt, you highlighted me!
873 2011-03-11 12:54:23 <BlueMatt> my bad
874 2011-03-11 12:55:10 <Xunie> Oh no, but it's okay! Because now I feel all important! :D
875 2011-03-11 12:55:41 <BlueMatt> lol ok Xunie
876 2011-03-11 12:55:54 <FellowTraveler> you can mix GPL and BSD, you just have to include the BSD waiver in the GPL notice.
877 2011-03-11 12:56:30 <luke-jr> FellowTraveler: but the combination can no longer be distributed under just BSD terms
878 2011-03-11 12:56:35 <FellowTraveler> yes that is true.
879 2011-03-11 12:56:59 <FellowTraveler> I'm just saying, it CAN be distributed under GPL terms, without violating BSD
880 2011-03-11 12:57:07 <FellowTraveler> you just have to put the waiver in there.
881 2011-03-11 12:57:37 <luke-jr> and I'm just saying, if you're writing BSD/MIT licensed software, you don't want to use GPL in it
882 2011-03-11 12:58:57 <Diablo-D3> erm
883 2011-03-11 12:59:00 <Diablo-D3> "dont" no
884 2011-03-11 12:59:03 <Diablo-D3> "CANT" yes
885 2011-03-11 12:59:10 <Diablo-D3> if you use GPL in it, it becomes GPL all over.
886 2011-03-11 12:59:29 <Diablo-D3> you can put BSD in a GPL program fine, its upgraded to GPL
887 2011-03-11 12:59:36 <FellowTraveler> it gets its sticky icky GPL all over you.
888 2011-03-11 13:00:17 <FellowTraveler> actually you can't put BSD into GPL without the waiver.
889 2011-03-11 13:00:22 <FellowTraveler> Otherwise you violate BSD.
890 2011-03-11 13:00:24 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: IF you distribute the result...and if you own copyright over the work in question, you can change that as well.
891 2011-03-11 13:02:01 <luke-jr> [08:57:33] <kblessinggr> http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/interactive/2011/03/world/gallery.japan.quake/images/lg.hrzgal.16.rt.jpg note church steeple in upper left
892 2011-03-11 13:02:02 <luke-jr> [08:57:53] <kblessinggr> the death toll just jumped, police say around 200-300 bodies were found in Sendai
893 2011-03-11 13:02:04 <luke-jr> where is MagicalTux?
894 2011-03-11 13:02:35 <Diablo-D3> [09:00:22] <FellowTraveler> Otherwise you violate BSD.
895 2011-03-11 13:02:35 <mmarker> For a 8.9, 200-300 is still damn low.
896 2011-03-11 13:02:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: he heard from him just after the quake
897 2011-03-11 13:02:38 <Diablo-D3> FellowTraveler: you are an idiot.
898 2011-03-11 13:02:48 <Diablo-D3> go read the BSD four times over.
899 2011-03-11 13:02:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that just happened I guess
900 2011-03-11 13:03:02 <Diablo-D3> BSD code can be used _in closed source programs without releasing the source_
901 2011-03-11 13:03:07 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no it was hours ago
902 2011-03-11 13:03:13 <Diablo-D3> yes, it can be legally upgraded to GPL without violating BSD.
903 2011-03-11 13:03:41 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: even if I dont own the copyright of the BSD code, I can include it with my GPL code.
904 2011-03-11 13:03:50 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: yup.
905 2011-03-11 13:04:17 <mmarker> It's when you distribute when everything gets messy. If you never share anything, noone gives a rats ass.
906 2011-03-11 13:04:53 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: not true anymore.
907 2011-03-11 13:05:06 <Diablo-D3> AGPL is in ur programz, raping your lawz
908 2011-03-11 13:05:34 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: But with AGPL, that's for webapps, where the assumption that loading the stuff in your browser is distribution.
909 2011-03-11 13:05:52 <Diablo-D3> actually its for ANYTHING that non-local users connect to
910 2011-03-11 13:06:17 <Diablo-D3> if an IRCD was under AGPL, and I connected to it, yes, I could demand the source.
911 2011-03-11 13:07:03 <mmarker> Diablo-D3: yup. But for example, ly little throwaway apps that used readline and a mix of BSD and proprietary code, then that's a licencing nightmare. But if I never distribute it, then there isn't a problem.
912 2011-03-11 13:07:57 <mmarker> Yea, AGPL3 is a real nice bit of work.
913 2011-03-11 13:08:27 <Diablo-D3> mmarker: depends on the license of the prioprietary code.
914 2011-03-11 13:09:07 <justmoon> I need to pick a code sample from the bitcoin source code for the video
915 2011-03-11 13:09:12 <justmoon> recommendations?
916 2011-03-11 13:09:19 <noagendamarket> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=970_1299840275  damn
917 2011-03-11 13:09:30 <mmarker> justmoon: what would you do with the code?
918 2011-03-11 13:09:42 <mmarker> explain it, use it as something to look pretty?
919 2011-03-11 13:09:55 <justmoon> yep, it's to illustrate the fact that bitcoin is open source
920 2011-03-11 13:10:03 <mmarker> If you want something shocking, the code that defines the origin block is a good one.
921 2011-03-11 13:10:05 <justmoon> it needs to look cool to a non-technical person
922 2011-03-11 13:10:06 <justmoon> and should be bitcoin specific
923 2011-03-11 13:10:22 <justmoon> bonus points if the words coin or bitcoin appear a lot :)
924 2011-03-11 13:11:06 <justmoon> it'll be syntax highlighted of course, so I don't mind if there are some constants in there - constants always look pretty
925 2011-03-11 13:11:33 <mmarker> justmoon: The reason why I say use the origin block is because of the text in the block.