1 2011-03-17 00:02:47 <JFK911> artforz i bought some g81-7000 usb
  2 2011-03-17 00:05:22 <ArtForz> how you like em?
  3 2011-03-17 00:06:24 <genjix> found a serious bug in bitcoin
  4 2011-03-17 00:06:36 <genjix> you can DOS the JSON RPC interface
  5 2011-03-17 00:06:43 <ArtForz> ROFL
  6 2011-03-17 00:06:44 <genjix> causes bitcoin to freeze
  7 2011-03-17 00:07:09 <genjix> genjix   14321  3.8  0.0      0     0 pts/5    Zl   01:03   0:06 [bitcoind] <defunct>
  8 2011-03-17 00:07:41 <luke-jr> that's dead, not frozen
  9 2011-03-17 00:08:05 <ArtForz> yeah, exposing your bitcoin json interface to the world is... a bad idea
 10 2011-03-17 00:08:23 <ArtForz> news at 11
 11 2011-03-17 00:30:48 <jgarzik> genjix: this is well known
 12 2011-03-17 00:31:03 <jrabbit> http://twitter.com/#!/midmagic/status/47764565223686145
 13 2011-03-17 00:31:14 <jrabbit> lol
 14 2011-03-17 00:38:17 <jgarzik> ArtForz' improvement on theymos' idea for scratch-off cards
 15 2011-03-17 00:45:08 <ArtForz> hrrrm
 16 2011-03-17 00:45:50 <ArtForz> actually bytecoins scheme slightly modified should work, without even requiring nonstandard tx
 17 2011-03-17 00:47:05 <ArtForz> when generating the "tx-to-card-code" keypair, use a partially fixed secret
 18 2011-03-17 00:48:31 <ArtForz> lets say have the upper 192 bits fixed (you still have ~64 bits of randomness in your privkey)
 19 2011-03-17 00:49:38 <ArtForz> take the lower 64 bits mod 10**15, put the result in decimal on the card
 20 2011-03-17 00:50:25 <ArtForz> that leaves about 18447 possiblities (2**64 / 10**15) to bruteforce for a legit redeemer
 21 2011-03-17 00:50:48 <ArtForz> shouldnt take THAT long
 22 2011-03-17 00:51:55 <ArtForz> basically to redeem a code, client goes through all 18447 possible priv/pub pairs for the entered code, checks if it theres a unredeemed tx to the addr_hash(pubkey) in the block chain
 23 2011-03-17 01:21:55 <genjix> how can i make a static build of bictoin?
 24 2011-03-17 01:22:35 <jgarzik> genjix: install static libs, and pass "-static"
 25 2011-03-17 01:22:38 <luke-jr> genjix: truly static binaries are difficult to come by
 26 2011-03-17 01:22:47 <genjix> ok thanks jgarzik
 27 2011-03-17 01:22:53 <luke-jr> the Makefiles included with bitcoind default to mostly-static tho
 28 2011-03-17 01:22:56 <genjix> luke, good enough for me is ok
 29 2011-03-17 01:23:07 <genjix> oh really. nice.
 30 2011-03-17 01:23:16 <luke-jr> like 70% or so IIRC
 31 2011-03-17 01:23:20 <luke-jr> not nice, static is bad :P
 32 2011-03-17 01:23:55 <genjix> bad? because bitcoind is such a big file.
 33 2011-03-17 01:24:09 <luke-jr> bad for multiple reasons
 34 2011-03-17 01:24:25 <genjix> like? i never thought it's bad...
 35 2011-03-17 01:24:25 <luke-jr> one being that if your OS installs a security fix, a static bitcoind still has the security vuln
 36 2011-03-17 01:24:36 <genjix> good point.
 37 2011-03-17 01:24:37 <luke-jr> or any other kind of fix for that matter
 38 2011-03-17 01:24:47 <luke-jr> it also makes your binary larger as you mentioned
 39 2011-03-17 01:25:09 <luke-jr> and means that when you load it, it's not using RAM efficiently
 40 2011-03-17 01:25:25 <genjix> truw
 41 2011-03-17 01:25:26 <genjix> e
 42 2011-03-17 01:25:53 <luke-jr> basically, the *only* use for a static binary, is when you're distributing binaries you want to be cross-platform
 43 2011-03-17 01:26:03 <lfm> static is also faster
 44 2011-03-17 01:26:04 <luke-jr> which you shouldn't, because there's no such thing in all reality
 45 2011-03-17 01:26:06 <jgarzik> ArtForz: our private keys are 279 bits?
 46 2011-03-17 01:26:12 <ArtForz> 256
 47 2011-03-17 01:26:15 <luke-jr> lfm: slightly.
 48 2011-03-17 01:26:25 <ArtForz> (well, the resulting key is bigger, but thats the whole random input)
 49 2011-03-17 01:26:39 <jgarzik> / secp256k1:
 50 2011-03-17 01:26:59 <jgarzik> // const unsigned int PRIVATE_KEY_SIZE = 279;
 51 2011-03-17 01:27:10 <ArtForz> thats in bytes, for the DER-encoded key inlcuding shitloads of crap
 52 2011-03-17 01:27:15 <jgarzik> ah
 53 2011-03-17 01:27:19 <lfm> if you ever tried the old byte unix benchmark -static is way faster
 54 2011-03-17 01:27:33 <genjix> ffs
 55 2011-03-17 01:27:51 <ArtForz> iirc it's secret, coords of private point, generator point, curve params
 56 2011-03-17 01:28:01 <genjix> this vps i have keeps running out of memory... anybody have a vps to host a small site i've just made so people can propose bitcoin features and 'rate' them?
 57 2011-03-17 01:28:18 <genjix> (and it shows donations for the person who writes that feature)
 58 2011-03-17 01:28:38 <genjix> i can instruct you what to do (no need for an account)
 59 2011-03-17 01:28:58 <luke-jr> lfm: without -fPIC on the shared? :P
 60 2011-03-17 01:29:18 <luke-jr> genjix: I have VPS for sale
 61 2011-03-17 01:29:32 <genjix> luke-jr: it's a free site i've made for the community.
 62 2011-03-17 01:29:33 <luke-jr> genjix: there's also nearlyfreespeech.net for web-only stuff :P
 63 2011-03-17 01:29:45 <genjix> needs to run bitcoind
 64 2011-03-17 01:33:04 <ArtForz> ECC is really pretty simple once you get to know it
 65 2011-03-17 01:33:41 <genjix> dont have an account.
 66 2011-03-17 01:35:12 <ArtForz> I should know, wrote a custom ECC impl from scratch to break ECDSA over a 80 bit curve
 67 2011-03-17 01:36:23 <ArtForz> signature scheme for updates for a discontinued embedded controller
 68 2011-03-17 01:38:27 <genjix> http://92.7.172.0/
 69 2011-03-17 01:39:23 <TheKid> lol
 70 2011-03-17 01:39:31 <TheKid> "Here is some help"
 71 2011-03-17 01:39:43 <jgarzik> a full 64 bits will give you 21 digits.  16 digits is found on your average credit card, so that's familiar to consumers.  brute forcing the rest is reasonable.
 72 2011-03-17 01:40:17 <ArtForz> jgarzik: sounds resaonble
 73 2011-03-17 01:41:38 <ArtForz> according to my back of the envlope, that only leavs you about 1.8k pssoblities to BF
 74 2011-03-17 01:42:36 <ArtForz> gah, cnat type
 75 2011-03-17 01:46:22 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4543.msg66621
 76 2011-03-17 01:46:41 <jgarzik> and another 11 digits for 32 bits worth of tx hash
 77 2011-03-17 01:46:53 <ArtForz> why?
 78 2011-03-17 01:47:18 <jgarzik> ArtForz: to redeem the card you need to find the tx?
 79 2011-03-17 01:47:26 <ArtForz> yes
 80 2011-03-17 01:47:47 <ArtForz> for the 1.8k possible pubkeys, check if theres a unredeemed tx to any of em
 81 2011-03-17 01:48:14 <jgarzik> search every unredeemed tx in the block chain?
 82 2011-03-17 01:48:21 <ArtForz> yep
 83 2011-03-17 01:49:18 <ArtForz> shouldnt be THAt expensive
 84 2011-03-17 01:50:50 <jgarzik> hmm.  still lean towards CARD # 1234 5678 90, PASSWORD 1111 2222 3333 4444 to directly reference a tx
 85 2011-03-17 01:51:30 <ArtForz> actually thats a neat idea
 86 2011-03-17 01:51:47 <ArtForz> makes redeeming cheaper computationally *if you have the code*
 87 2011-03-17 01:51:58 <jgarzik> yep
 88 2011-03-17 01:52:03 <ArtForz> = increases attacker / legit redeemer overhead
 89 2011-03-17 01:58:54 <miner_> #join #bitcoin-mining
 90 2011-03-17 02:09:39 <jgarzik> ah, good.  all bitcoin databases appear to be btree.  so I should be able to easily search for a partial tx hash.
 91 2011-03-17 02:36:12 <forrestv> mining is the perfect way to rationalize buying a costly video card
 92 2011-03-17 02:59:30 <phantomcircuit> damn it
 93 2011-03-17 02:59:36 <phantomcircuit> i thought that was decafe
 94 2011-03-17 02:59:39 <phantomcircuit> er
 95 2011-03-17 02:59:41 <phantomcircuit> decaf
 96 2011-03-17 02:59:43 <phantomcircuit> >.>
 97 2011-03-17 02:59:46 <phantomcircuit> <.<
 98 2011-03-17 03:00:16 <JFK911> ArtForz: i didnt get the g81's yet.  i want to try the compact layout
 99 2011-03-17 03:00:16 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, thank you
100 2011-03-17 03:00:24 <ArtForz> it's pretty... weird
101 2011-03-17 03:00:34 <ArtForz> a bit like a mx black, but not quite
102 2011-03-17 03:00:57 <JFK911> they are rather common in germany though?
103 2011-03-17 03:01:01 <ArtForz> yup
104 2011-03-17 03:01:07 <ArtForz> but really not bad for a cheap keyboard
105 2011-03-17 03:01:08 <ArtForz> well "cheap"
106 2011-03-17 03:01:09 <phantomcircuit> cheap keyboards are a bad idea :|
107 2011-03-17 03:01:12 <ArtForz> like $50 for a 105-key new
108 2011-03-17 03:01:26 <JFK911> added bonus, these have the crazy controllers in them to support mag stripe/barcode
109 2011-03-17 03:01:59 <phantomcircuit> you only get one set of wrists
110 2011-03-17 03:02:04 <JFK911> i dont care about those things but the keyboard is programmable
111 2011-03-17 03:02:07 <ArtForz> and they're easy to clean like MX-type KBs
112 2011-03-17 03:02:12 <ArtForz> = just pop the caps off and wash
113 2011-03-17 03:02:17 <JFK911> scrap MX from cash registers have turned out to be a super great deal
114 2011-03-17 03:02:53 <JFK911> thats about the only application they are common for in north america
115 2011-03-17 03:03:08 <ArtForz> they're common for data entry around here
116 2011-03-17 03:03:22 <JFK911> i remember using wyse terminal with mx black
117 2011-03-17 03:03:31 <ArtForz> so it's easy to get a shitload of std 104/105
118 2011-03-17 03:11:20 <ArtForz> fuck, watching minecraft LPs is addictive
119 2011-03-17 03:13:57 <jgarzik> gah!  so, CreateTransaction() just throws away sub-CENT change?
120 2011-03-17 03:14:25 <ArtForz> mine doesnt if it can help it, so does luke-jr's
121 2011-03-17 03:15:22 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that's the bugfix I submitted months ago
122 2011-03-17 03:15:49 <jgarzik> seems like a one-line change
123 2011-03-17 03:16:00 <ArtForz> not quite
124 2011-03-17 03:16:01 <luke-jr> jgarzik: not that simple
125 2011-03-17 03:16:14 <luke-jr> if you simply don't throw it away, you have to pay a fee ;)
126 2011-03-17 03:16:21 <ArtForz> lol, me and luke agree, mark this day!
127 2011-03-17 03:16:34 <luke-jr> my patch goes looking for an extra CENT to avoid the fee
128 2011-03-17 03:16:41 <ArtForz> yup
129 2011-03-17 03:17:55 <ZenMondo> I always wondered why they say that you can divide a bitcoin to so many places (8?) but the client only goes to two but the pooled miners go out like 30 places
130 2011-03-17 03:19:01 <Kiba> ZenMondo: 2 place on client is comestic restriction
131 2011-03-17 03:19:12 <Kiba> since it's unnecesary for now
132 2011-03-17 03:19:16 <ArtForz> watch out for stray comets!
133 2011-03-17 03:19:43 <ZenMondo> So I may have some fractional coin that is not shown?
134 2011-03-17 03:19:50 <ArtForz> yup
135 2011-03-17 03:20:20 <ZenMondo> I am only now starting to get into the code.  Looking for the getwork stuff have not found it yet.
136 2011-03-17 03:20:38 <luke-jr> ZenMondo: more importantly, if you DO have those fractional coins, the wx client will silently discard them
137 2011-03-17 03:20:42 <ZenMondo> but I have not been looking hard. Just skimming stuff to get a feel about tis
138 2011-03-17 03:20:46 <ArtForz> tried looking in rpc.cpp?
139 2011-03-17 03:20:56 <luke-jr> ArtForz: the main code for getwork is in main.cpp :P
140 2011-03-17 03:21:12 <ArtForz> well, thats why it's called kitchensink.cpp
141 2011-03-17 03:21:12 <luke-jr> ZenMondo: also, nothing can go beyond 8 decimal places
142 2011-03-17 03:21:24 <luke-jr> because a real bitcoin value is an integer
143 2011-03-17 03:21:36 <luke-jr> and BTC is simply defined as real-coins / 100,000,000
144 2011-03-17 03:21:56 <ArtForz> yup
145 2011-03-17 03:22:54 <ArtForz> base unit = microcents (centimicros?), well, COIN = 1e8
146 2011-03-17 03:26:32 <Kiba> I call it: the satoshi
147 2011-03-17 03:27:17 <ArtForz> bitquantums?
148 2011-03-17 03:27:36 <Kiba> 0.00000001 is a satoshi
149 2011-03-17 03:27:51 <ArtForz> thats a very small satoshi
150 2011-03-17 03:28:07 <Kiba> yes, that's a very small bitcoin
151 2011-03-17 03:28:08 <ZenMondo> also I am using bitcoin code to teach myself emacs.
152 2011-03-17 03:28:58 <luke-jr> ZenMondo: you trying to start a war?
153 2011-03-17 03:29:16 <ArtForz> no, vim won that one a decade ago
154 2011-03-17 03:29:21 <lfm> ZenMondo: a masocist are you
155 2011-03-17 03:29:26 <luke-jr> Kiba: then I call it: BitCoin-bong
156 2011-03-17 03:29:35 <Kiba> I used emacs
157 2011-03-17 03:29:48 <Kiba> I even IRC in emacs!
158 2011-03-17 03:30:00 <ArtForz> emacs users anonymous?
159 2011-03-17 03:30:07 <ZenMondo> haha well I thought it was time.  in unix I use pico as I am usually in a terminal window and in windows I use EditPlus
160 2011-03-17 03:30:22 <echelon> vim > emax
161 2011-03-17 03:30:28 <ArtForz> well, as long as it's not joe...
162 2011-03-17 03:30:34 <ZenMondo> "emacs is a versatile operating system you can use to edit text"
163 2011-03-17 03:30:44 <echelon> lolol
164 2011-03-17 03:30:50 <Kiba> emacs > vim
165 2011-03-17 03:30:55 <ArtForz> nah, "pretty decent os, lacks a good text editor"
166 2011-03-17 03:31:32 <Kiba> it's totally good at editing texts!
167 2011-03-17 03:32:31 <ZenMondo> anyway I run windows for a variety of reasons (Not the least is my son's games don't run in linux) but like WUBI and emacs is a pain in windows though.  Also I need to find the php syntax highlighter thingamajob
168 2011-03-17 03:32:46 <dirtyfilthy> how do i use the gribble difficulty calculator?
169 2011-03-17 03:33:17 <ArtForz> if I'm forced to use 'doze, I want uedit32 or at least notepad++
170 2011-03-17 03:33:29 <ArtForz> dirtyfilthy: ?
171 2011-03-17 03:34:14 <ArtForz> can't bring myself to use a *nix editor on 'doze, feels like dishonoring its ancestors
172 2011-03-17 03:34:29 <dirtyfilthy> like it'll take x amount of time at y khashes to generate a block
173 2011-03-17 03:34:40 <ArtForz> ;;bc,calcd 1 1
174 2011-03-17 03:34:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 7 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes, and 47 seconds
175 2011-03-17 03:34:45 <dirtyfilthy> thanks
176 2011-03-17 03:45:58 <lfm> ;;bc,gend 2 1
177 2011-03-17 03:46:15 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 2.01165676117 BTC per day and 0.0838190317154 BTC per hour.
178 2011-03-17 03:47:12 <Aciid> genjix: around?
179 2011-03-17 03:54:22 <phantomcircuit> hmm
180 2011-03-17 04:18:37 <Kiba> did bitcoin forum goes kaboom?
181 2011-03-17 04:18:41 <Kiba> oh
182 2011-03-17 04:19:38 <genjix> Aciid: hey!
183 2011-03-17 04:19:45 <genjix> thanks :) i just responded.
184 2011-03-17 04:19:54 <genjix> awesome.
185 2011-03-17 04:20:02 <Aciid> hioo
186 2011-03-17 04:20:18 <Aciid> genjix: just read it =)
187 2011-03-17 04:20:29 <Kiba> methink kickstarter-equse site is a nice site
188 2011-03-17 04:20:31 <Kiba> err
189 2011-03-17 04:20:33 <genjix> emacs sucks, vim rules.
190 2011-03-17 04:20:33 <Kiba> idea
191 2011-03-17 04:20:39 <Kiba> emacs rocks, vim sucks!
192 2011-03-17 04:20:40 <genjix> Kiba: well source is open if you want it.
193 2011-03-17 04:20:47 <bt2100> emacs and vim sucks, nano rules!
194 2011-03-17 04:20:50 <bt2100> =p
195 2011-03-17 04:20:51 <genjix> ill help you if you want to get hacking on it.
196 2011-03-17 04:21:05 <Kiba> emacs is king of the hill, while vims and nano fight over a smaller hill!
197 2011-03-17 04:21:14 <genjix> in fact you can watch me set it up if Aciid doesn't mind.
198 2011-03-17 04:21:26 <genjix> (over ssh + gnu screen)
199 2011-03-17 04:21:26 <Kiba> genjix: I got a site I am working on
200 2011-03-17 04:21:38 <genjix> heh ok
201 2011-03-17 04:21:42 <Kiba> and a freelance project to finish
202 2011-03-17 04:22:05 <genjix> time to stop posting like a machine then.
203 2011-03-17 04:22:24 <Kiba> I am done with work for the day
204 2011-03-17 04:22:31 <Kiba> done my 75 commits
205 2011-03-17 04:22:41 <genjix> i don't work. i'm free.
206 2011-03-17 04:22:50 <Aciid> genjix: have you decided that is the name final?
207 2011-03-17 04:22:56 <Kiba> and I was working on my site until midnight come
208 2011-03-17 04:22:57 <genjix> Aciid: what name?
209 2011-03-17 04:23:06 <genjix> i didn't even pick one. you can choose.
210 2011-03-17 04:23:17 <genjix> lets call it TripOnAcid
211 2011-03-17 04:23:18 <Aciid> I just saw postecon at the title
212 2011-03-17 04:23:22 <Aciid> hahah
213 2011-03-17 04:23:23 <miner_> ;;bc,stats
214 2011-03-17 04:23:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113836 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1075 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 15 hours, 32 minutes, and 5 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65858.58496641
215 2011-03-17 04:23:41 <genjix> yeah postecon = post economic scarcity
216 2011-03-17 04:23:43 <Kiba> genjix: I got an idea for a project in April
217 2011-03-17 04:23:58 <Kiba> which require me to do a lot of work in March
218 2011-03-17 04:23:58 <miner_> ;;bs,gend 5200000, 65000
219 2011-03-17 04:23:59 <gribble> Error: "bs,gend" is not a valid command.
220 2011-03-17 04:24:00 <genjix> Kiba: tell me so i can steal it :)
221 2011-03-17 04:24:06 <Aciid> genjix: something I can make a subdomain out of, if not yet final. no reason to make a domain yet.
222 2011-03-17 04:24:18 <Aciid> "logic"
223 2011-03-17 04:24:20 <Kiba> genjix: I have an article for you to steal but my site is down for the moment
224 2011-03-17 04:24:21 <genjix> not yet final
225 2011-03-17 04:24:21 <miner_> ;;bc,gend 5200000,65000
226 2011-03-17 04:24:22 <gribble> (bc,gend <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
227 2011-03-17 04:24:35 <Aciid> as for webdev purposes, better watch it grow first.
228 2011-03-17 04:24:40 <genjix> Aciid: not important. you can choose one if you wish.
229 2011-03-17 04:24:42 <Kiba> genjix: basically, it's an HTML5 games
230 2011-03-17 04:24:44 <miner_> ;;bc,gen 5200000
231 2011-03-17 04:24:45 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 76193.9710474 , is 68.6446382459 BTC per day and 2.86019326025 BTC per hour.
232 2011-03-17 04:24:46 <genjix> yep
233 2011-03-17 04:24:56 <Kiba> but it's "celluar"
234 2011-03-17 04:25:08 <Kiba> that mean, no set "building"
235 2011-03-17 04:25:18 <Kiba> or tech tree
236 2011-03-17 04:25:23 <genjix> Aciid: it's ok that i run bitcoin on it, right?
237 2011-03-17 04:25:26 <Kiba> all the cells you ever need is constructed
238 2011-03-17 04:25:42 <Kiba> well
239 2011-03-17 04:25:54 <Kiba> you get access to all type of cells you will ever need
240 2011-03-17 04:25:57 <Aciid> genjix: scratch scratch, the current server can't mine.
241 2011-03-17 04:26:02 <Kiba> just need to grow them
242 2011-03-17 04:26:03 <Aciid> genjix: it's not powerful enough.
243 2011-03-17 04:26:05 <genjix> Aciid: not mining, just running bitcoind.
244 2011-03-17 04:26:08 <Kiba> if you construct technologies/buildings/units, you basically construct your own organic structures
245 2011-03-17 04:26:09 <genjix> to accept payments.
246 2011-03-17 04:26:20 <Kiba> and all living cells use energy
247 2011-03-17 04:26:30 <Aciid> it's ok
248 2011-03-17 04:26:46 <genjix> Kiba: sounds pretty cool.
249 2011-03-17 04:27:26 <Kiba> and that energy is in the form of bitcoin
250 2011-03-17 04:27:38 <Aciid> that just kinda means that I have to make you a user before that
251 2011-03-17 04:27:38 <Kiba> but the energy is plentiful
252 2011-03-17 04:27:40 <Aciid> scatch scratch, so the new server is coming at around next month
253 2011-03-17 04:27:40 <genjix> although you know if people need bitcoin to progress early on then it's unattractive to people.
254 2011-03-17 04:27:41 <genjix> and if it's too obvious you use bitcoins then people find that unfair.
255 2011-03-17 04:27:43 <genjix> that's how all these casual games work.
256 2011-03-17 04:27:43 <Kiba> genjix: but to play a game, it's a very small amount of bitcoin
257 2011-03-17 04:27:44 <Kiba> and everything require energy
258 2011-03-17 04:27:46 <Kiba> and all energy use bitcoin
259 2011-03-17 04:27:48 <genjix> hook you in on a drive-by.
260 2011-03-17 04:27:50 <genjix> get you doing some easy task for a reward
261 2011-03-17 04:27:55 <mmagic> who wants to bet whether i can make an auto-trade bot sell at the current sell price by tricking it to underbid me?
262 2011-03-17 04:28:05 <mmagic> sell price = buy price
263 2011-03-17 04:28:11 <genjix> then capitalise on their greed to collect high scores
264 2011-03-17 04:28:15 <Kiba> you can purchase DNA cells, which is basically designs that you can use within games
265 2011-03-17 04:28:40 <Kiba> but all these are just memory slot
266 2011-03-17 04:28:50 <Kiba> so you can design all your buildings
267 2011-03-17 04:28:54 <genjix> also the problem with 'cells' and stuff is players can't relate much.
268 2011-03-17 04:28:57 <Kiba> but if they're buggy, well...
269 2011-03-17 04:29:03 <Kiba> too bad
270 2011-03-17 04:29:09 <Kiba> you should have made a better design
271 2011-03-17 04:29:18 <genjix> it's abstract so your art has to be really sexy or they have to be anthropomorphised
272 2011-03-17 04:29:22 <Kiba> if you can't gathered the right type of cells, well..that's too bad
273 2011-03-17 04:30:09 <Kiba> it's a basically a sandbox RTS game
274 2011-03-17 04:31:03 <Kiba> since all cells use energy, you will be forced to figure out how to keep your supply chain running and efficently deliver the energy you need
275 2011-03-17 04:31:15 <mmagic> ahahahaha awesome!
276 2011-03-17 04:31:38 <Kiba> you will be forced to stragetize on protecting your supply chain
277 2011-03-17 04:32:42 <genjix> Kiba: here's some good reading for inspiration/knowledge,
278 2011-03-17 04:32:43 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy
279 2011-03-17 04:32:49 <genjix> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing#Self-organization_in_cybernetics
280 2011-03-17 04:33:05 <genjix> in the sims the way they programmed the AI to work in houses
281 2011-03-17 04:33:12 <Kiba> genjix: well, I don't really care anything about...
282 2011-03-17 04:33:16 <genjix> is that each sim is like an 'ant'
283 2011-03-17 04:33:21 <Kiba> farmhill or whatever game
284 2011-03-17 04:33:28 <Kiba> that use mechanics
285 2011-03-17 04:33:42 <Kiba> that make the game addicting or something
286 2011-03-17 04:33:57 <Kiba> genjix: yes, that should be how my game work
287 2011-03-17 04:34:32 <Kiba> it will take some experimentation though
288 2011-03-17 05:16:42 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
289 2011-03-17 05:16:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113841 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1070 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 14 hours, 52 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65729.57301582
290 2011-03-17 05:18:08 <ZenMondo> does the difficulty going down mean there are less hashes being processed?
291 2011-03-17 05:19:17 <phantomcircuit> no
292 2011-03-17 05:19:20 <phantomcircuit> well
293 2011-03-17 05:19:22 <phantomcircuit> ZenMondo, yes
294 2011-03-17 05:19:25 <phantomcircuit> kind of
295 2011-03-17 05:19:39 <phantomcircuit> it means the rate at which blocks are being created has dropped
296 2011-03-17 05:20:07 <phantomcircuit> rofl
297 2011-03-17 05:32:26 <jostmey> .
298 2011-03-17 05:38:38 <jgarzik> ArtForz: so, I created 'sendscratchoff' RPC: http://pastebin.com/VHeWD4dN
299 2011-03-17 05:39:25 <jgarzik> ArtForz: in bitcoin's key.h, OpenSSL's o2i_ECPublicKey() fails, when I pass it 32 bytes of random data.  I think it's expecting DER format or somesuch.
300 2011-03-17 05:43:02 <jgarzik> ArtForz: here's a dumped, newly generated random ECDSA key: http://pastebin.com/KfMWhC0p  Fields in dump: prime, a, b, generator, order and cofactor.
301 2011-03-17 05:45:12 <jgarzik> If I had to guess, I would say I need to (a) generate a new key w/ MakeNewKey(), and than (b) random some random offset deep inside those 279 bytes with our magic 64 bits?
302 2011-03-17 05:45:25 <jgarzik> er, replace some random...
303 2011-03-17 05:55:53 <jgarzik> prime and order don't look very random
304 2011-03-17 06:15:21 <jgarzik> ok, I found the !@#! key
305 2011-03-17 06:15:25 <jgarzik> kinda
306 2011-03-17 06:21:42 <da2ce7> *chinees studends on bitcoin-smf*
307 2011-03-17 07:20:13 <jgarzik> ArtForz: ok, I think I got it going
308 2011-03-17 07:36:32 <mizerydearia> In regards to charity implementation, what information seems useful to keep traffic for each charity?  This is what I have so far: balance, total donated, website, charity name
309 2011-03-17 07:36:44 <mizerydearia> ah, bitcoin address
310 2011-03-17 07:37:49 <mizerydearia> email address also
311 2011-03-17 07:43:58 <mmagic> hey. how does that bot know what's in the dark pool order book?!
312 2011-03-17 07:45:15 <mizerydearia> mmagic, gribble?
313 2011-03-17 07:45:24 <mizerydearia> or mtgox?
314 2011-03-17 07:46:37 <mmagic> there's a bot trading right now, and instantly reacting when you undercut it. the trade value is 340.25, currently @ 0.886999
315 2011-03-17 07:46:58 <mmagic> and just as an experiment i put up a pure dark pool order. and a moment later, it reacted and undercut me
316 2011-03-17 07:47:14 <mmagic> how the hell is that possible?!
317 2011-03-17 07:48:06 <mmagic> here, watch, i'll make it go back up to its preferred 88.89??? price.. ready?
318 2011-03-17 07:48:09 <mizerydearia> mmagic, It could be bot established by the site owner
319 2011-03-17 07:48:14 <mizerydearia> or someone with insider access
320 2011-03-17 07:48:42 <mmagic> take a peek, grab the getDepth.php file and see what i'm talking about.
321 2011-03-17 07:48:54 <mizerydearia> meh, I believe ya
322 2011-03-17 07:49:04 <mizerydearia> basically the site is running its own bot probably
323 2011-03-17 07:59:46 <mmagic> so this is current:  New sell:   340.25 @ $0.886999 per, Sell up:    79.02 @ $0.87     per (from    13.02),Del sell:   340.25 @ $0.888999 per..  aaaand.. drumroll.. no, it stopped now.
324 2011-03-17 08:05:12 <joepie91> morning
325 2011-03-17 08:05:37 <mmagic> bullpucky; the bot isn't reacting to dark pool orders now. i wonder if they're just scraping bitcoin charts.
326 2011-03-17 08:05:51 <ZenMondo> can't be morning yet I have not slept and the lights are still on
327 2011-03-17 08:06:16 <joepie91> heh
328 2011-03-17 08:06:21 <jgarzik> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4555.0
329 2011-03-17 08:06:21 <joepie91> it is morning here :)
330 2011-03-17 08:06:22 <jgarzik> [PATCH] bitcoin scratch-off cards
331 2011-03-17 08:08:02 <joepie91> idea: a payment gateway like paypal does, only for bitcoin (without transaction fee)
332 2011-03-17 08:08:04 <joepie91> good idea or not?
333 2011-03-17 08:08:19 <joepie91> making callbacks / sending emails whenever a payment is "confirmed"
334 2011-03-17 08:08:37 <jgarzik> joepie91: good idea.  we need more of those.
335 2011-03-17 08:09:00 <joepie91> well... I think I'm going to write one :P
336 2011-03-17 08:09:06 <joepie91> a hosted gateway
337 2011-03-17 08:09:17 <joepie91> so that basically anyone can accept bitcoin without needing to run a local bitcoind
338 2011-03-17 08:09:30 <joepie91> also.. I noticed the coincard service has an API
339 2011-03-17 08:09:43 <joepie91> if you combine a bitcoin payment gateway with the coincard to-paypal API...
340 2011-03-17 08:09:54 <joepie91> any paypal merchant could basically accept bitcoin without even needing to use bitcoin himself
341 2011-03-17 08:39:11 <jgarzik> joepie91: good point
342 2011-03-17 08:40:49 <joepie91> also considering hosting for virtual goods
343 2011-03-17 08:40:50 <noagendamarket> I say go for it
344 2011-03-17 08:40:51 <joepie91> as in
345 2011-03-17 08:40:59 <joepie91> if you create a payment page you can upload the product
346 2011-03-17 08:41:09 <joepie91> and the gateway handles the hosting and delivery of the digital product
347 2011-03-17 08:41:10 <joepie91> for free
348 2011-03-17 08:41:39 <joepie91> and to prevent people from selling other peoples stuff, hold the payments for hosted products for 24-48 hours in which the buyer can report a non-legit sale
349 2011-03-17 08:41:40 <noagendamarket> that sounds like etsy but for virtual goods :)
350 2011-03-17 08:41:49 <joepie91> and if he does and it turns out the seller has no right to sell it
351 2011-03-17 08:41:53 <joepie91> the product is removed
352 2011-03-17 08:41:55 <noagendamarket> vetsy   lol
353 2011-03-17 08:42:00 <joepie91> and the payment refunded
354 2011-03-17 08:43:35 <joepie91> that would probably prevent people from uploading copyrighted stuff etc and getting me in trouble for hosting it
355 2011-03-17 08:59:25 <mizerydearia> What is the shortest charity name length?  and the longest?
356 2011-03-17 08:59:54 <mizerydearia> or any organization that accepts donations.  It doesn't have to be a charity.
357 2011-03-17 09:00:13 <quadcores> what can't I /join #bitcoin-discussion?
358 2011-03-17 09:01:08 <joepie91> mizerydearia: howso>?
359 2011-03-17 09:01:09 <joepie91> also
360 2011-03-17 09:01:19 <joepie91> there is a wiki page that lists organizations
361 2011-03-17 09:01:21 <joepie91> that accept donations
362 2011-03-17 09:01:23 <mizerydearia> quadcores, you're already in the channel
363 2011-03-17 09:01:44 <quadcores> lol. ah. so its my client thats messed up.
364 2011-03-17 09:01:48 <mizerydearia> joepie91, yes.  I contacted many of them to introduce them to an implementation for a website that I am working on.
365 2011-03-17 09:02:06 <joepie91> implementation? do tell more?
366 2011-03-17 09:02:22 <mizerydearia> joepie91, http://www.freelists.org/post/torservers/Charity-integration-at-witcoin,1
367 2011-03-17 09:03:58 <joepie91> hm
368 2011-03-17 09:04:09 <joepie91> interesting concept... but what is the final purpose?
369 2011-03-17 09:04:18 <joepie91> supporting organizations who use the platform?
370 2011-03-17 09:06:45 <mizerydearia> the final purpose is to incentivize usage of witcoin, providing users to establish more potential worthiness of posting to the site in a kind of effort to micro-payingly donate to charities?  I have no idea.
371 2011-03-17 09:06:51 <mizerydearia> I just thought it was cool idea. ^_^
372 2011-03-17 09:07:25 <joepie91> heh
373 2011-03-17 09:07:31 <joepie91> well, it won't hurt to implement it :P
374 2011-03-17 09:11:11 <joepie91> but yeah
375 2011-03-17 09:11:17 <joepie91> the concept makes me think of a flattr with downlines
376 2011-03-17 09:11:25 <joepie91> @ mizerydearia
377 2011-03-17 09:11:40 <mizerydearia> mm
378 2011-03-17 09:12:02 <joepie91> mh
379 2011-03-17 09:12:10 <joepie91> I think I'm gonna set up bitcoind on my vps now
380 2011-03-17 09:12:11 <joepie91> :P
381 2011-03-17 09:15:41 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: the right sendmany patch is gavin's branch right?
382 2011-03-17 09:17:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it's upstream
383 2011-03-17 09:18:01 <BlueMatt> oh since when?
384 2011-03-17 09:18:30 <BlueMatt> oh my bad
385 2011-03-17 09:18:43 <BlueMatt> missed that commit...god I really need to work on my memory
386 2011-03-17 09:19:16 <jgarzik> joepie91: make sure you have memory, bitcoind wants a lot
387 2011-03-17 09:19:53 <joepie91> 1024MB guaranteed, 2048MB burst
388 2011-03-17 09:19:54 <joepie91> :)
389 2011-03-17 09:20:05 <joepie91> 110GB disk space
390 2011-03-17 09:20:31 <joepie91> not going to mine or anything, so I suppose CPU is not extremely important
391 2011-03-17 09:28:17 <BlueMatt> arg genjix needs to update bitnom for sendmany
392 2011-03-17 09:29:06 <joepie91> jgarzik: how much RAM does bitcoind use?
393 2011-03-17 09:29:08 <joepie91> on average?
394 2011-03-17 09:29:23 <BlueMatt> joepie91: almost nothing
395 2011-03-17 09:29:26 <BlueMatt> 1g is plenty
396 2011-03-17 09:29:32 <joepie91> heh ok
397 2011-03-17 09:29:37 <joepie91> machine will be dedicated to bitcoind
398 2011-03-17 09:29:41 <joepie91> and the payment gateway
399 2011-03-17 09:29:42 <BlueMatt> well almost nothing as in a couple hundred meg
400 2011-03-17 09:29:44 <joepie91> so that should be fine then
401 2011-03-17 09:29:49 <joepie91> ye, that's acceptable :P
402 2011-03-17 09:30:01 <joepie91> as long as it stays under 1024 most of the time it's ok
403 2011-03-17 09:30:10 <joepie91> it can burst up to 2048... but it;s still burst
404 2011-03-17 09:30:24 <BlueMatt> plus swap
405 2011-03-17 09:30:36 <joepie91> openvz
406 2011-03-17 09:30:39 <joepie91> no swap afaik
407 2011-03-17 09:30:51 <BlueMatt> ah
408 2011-03-17 09:30:54 <joepie91> :)
409 2011-03-17 09:31:22 <joepie91> and ye, I figure 4TB transfer is enough to keep stuff running :P
410 2011-03-17 09:31:30 <joepie91> even anonnews does not use that I believe...
411 2011-03-17 09:31:32 <BlueMatt> he plenty
412 2011-03-17 09:31:53 <BlueMatt> where are you getting this vps?
413 2011-03-17 09:32:18 <joepie91> buyvm
414 2011-03-17 09:32:19 <joepie91> :)
415 2011-03-17 09:32:28 <joepie91> www.buyvm.net
416 2011-03-17 09:32:29 <joepie91> not .com
417 2011-03-17 09:32:33 <joepie91> .com is a squatter
418 2011-03-17 09:32:50 <BlueMatt> never heard of them, oversold?
419 2011-03-17 09:32:52 <joepie91> also, anonnews used about 200GB so far as a fairly high-traffic site... so about 400GB in total
420 2011-03-17 09:32:56 <joepie91> then bitcoin gateway should be ok
421 2011-03-17 09:32:58 <joepie91> meh
422 2011-03-17 09:33:03 <joepie91> they might be a bit oversold
423 2011-03-17 09:33:08 <joepie91> but they have a strict limit of nodes per host
424 2011-03-17 09:33:15 <joepie91> and I've not really had performance issues or anything
425 2011-03-17 09:33:36 <joepie91> however they are lenient on what's allowed... so on the bigger VPSes some minecrafts and rtorrents etc are running
426 2011-03-17 09:33:54 <joepie91> which leads to bandwidth varying a lot sometimes
427 2011-03-17 09:34:00 <joepie91> I usually get about 65MB/sec from cachefly though
428 2011-03-17 09:34:01 <BlueMatt> oh sucks
429 2011-03-17 09:34:05 <joepie91> shared 1gbit port
430 2011-03-17 09:34:11 <BlueMatt> 65 isnt bad
431 2011-03-17 09:34:20 <joepie91> cheaper VPSes like the $15/year are slower, they are often used for VPNs
432 2011-03-17 09:34:30 <joepie91> I get between 50-400kb through my pptp on there
433 2011-03-17 09:34:32 <joepie91> / sec
434 2011-03-17 09:34:44 <TD> i wonder how hard/expensive it is to actually do a deal with some smaller supermarket chains and get scratch cards into circulation
435 2011-03-17 09:34:45 <joepie91> but it's a good host nevertheless
436 2011-03-17 09:35:03 <BlueMatt> joepie91: ouch 400k kinda sucks
437 2011-03-17 09:35:03 <joepie91> TD; if you team up with a voucher distribution company it'd be easy
438 2011-03-17 09:35:09 <joepie91> if you'd do it on yourself it'd be hard
439 2011-03-17 09:35:17 <joepie91> BlueMatt: it's pretty ok for a 15$/year VPS
440 2011-03-17 09:35:18 <joepie91> :P
441 2011-03-17 09:35:22 <BlueMatt> TD: who is going to print them?
442 2011-03-17 09:35:24 <BlueMatt> joepie91: true
443 2011-03-17 09:35:26 <joepie91> that's like just a bit over 1 dollar per month
444 2011-03-17 09:35:36 <joepie91> and they support pptp and openvpn etc
445 2011-03-17 09:35:49 <joepie91> only openvz host that supports pptp etc, as far as I am aware
446 2011-03-17 09:36:04 <joepie91> if you need more stability and a more reliable (but lower) speed, try ramhost
447 2011-03-17 09:36:10 <BlueMatt> not bad, but I get petter through a pptp on my home connection
448 2011-03-17 09:36:15 <joepie91> they have 80mbit dedicated per VPS I believe
449 2011-03-17 09:36:18 <BlueMatt> better*
450 2011-03-17 09:36:18 <joepie91> or 40
451 2011-03-17 09:36:19 <joepie91> not sure
452 2011-03-17 09:36:26 <joepie91> heh
453 2011-03-17 09:36:37 <BlueMatt> ok that I dont have
454 2011-03-17 09:36:42 <joepie91> mye, for me it's a cheap vpn with canada IP (even though physical server is in US)
455 2011-03-17 09:36:48 <joepie91> can be useful
456 2011-03-17 09:36:52 <joepie91> and I'm gonna use it for a nameserver
457 2011-03-17 09:36:59 <BlueMatt> who needs a canada ip?
458 2011-03-17 09:37:09 <joepie91> there are canada-only services sometimes :)
459 2011-03-17 09:37:12 <joepie91> and it's useful for a seedbox
460 2011-03-17 09:37:21 <joepie91> most companies don't even bother sending a DMCA to a box with canada ip
461 2011-03-17 09:37:27 <BlueMatt> nice
462 2011-03-17 09:37:47 <joepie91> but yeah, I use BuyVM for things that need to "burst" more
463 2011-03-17 09:37:53 <joepie91> seedbox, bitcoin gateway, minecraft
464 2011-03-17 09:38:04 <joepie91> I use Ramhost for more stable and reliable things that need a predictable speed and performance
465 2011-03-17 09:38:09 <joepie91> like a social network I am running
466 2011-03-17 09:38:38 <joepie91> they're both very good (and both very friendly support, and buyvm has an irc channel), they just serve different purposes imo
467 2011-03-17 09:38:45 <joepie91> and both cheap of course :D
468 2011-03-17 09:38:59 <joepie91> (oh, and ramhost is not oversold - they publish host node stats, even)
469 2011-03-17 09:57:50 <RBecker> ;;bc,blocks
470 2011-03-17 09:57:51 <gribble> 113864
471 2011-03-17 10:02:26 <JFK911> haha now i know gribble's password
472 2011-03-17 10:24:27 <afed> ;;bc,stats
473 2011-03-17 10:24:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113867 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1044 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 10 hours, 7 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65703.42920083
474 2011-03-17 11:04:54 <BlueMatt> firt version of bitcoin-patched uploaded to bitcoin.bluematt.me :)
475 2011-03-17 11:18:16 <molecular> BlueMatt, nice! What patches are in there?
476 2011-03-17 11:19:21 <sipa> xlisttransactions, getblockbycount, dumpblock, settxfee, print pow failures, upnp, port
477 2011-03-17 11:19:26 <BlueMatt> molecular: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/patched/README.md
478 2011-03-17 11:20:10 <BlueMatt> still need to add monitor* and bitnom but thats for later
479 2011-03-17 11:43:18 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell tcatm when you updated uiproject, you reverted Gavin's commit which changed the copyright date to 2011 from 2010 (uibase.cpp ~line 547 and uiproject.fbp ~line 3348)
480 2011-03-17 11:43:31 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
481 2011-03-17 12:02:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I'm assuming the gavin's monitor* patches I should merge are from his github? He appears to have been redoing it but hasn't uploaded the code yet/people use the old version?
482 2011-03-17 12:03:40 <Icon> so i guess  cant use mirc client?
483 2011-03-17 12:03:50 <BlueMatt> should be able to use anything
484 2011-03-17 12:04:04 <Icon> well got an old version kept getting connection rufussed
485 2011-03-17 12:04:09 <sipa> server: irc.freenode.org, channel: #bitcoin-dev, port: 6667
486 2011-03-17 12:04:14 <Icon> think due to the caption @ login
487 2011-03-17 12:04:23 <Icon> k ill try that
488 2011-03-17 12:04:25 <sipa> caption?
489 2011-03-17 12:04:33 <Icon> via the web log in
490 2011-03-17 12:04:48 <BlueMatt> Icon: not the web thing, irc clients have to be connected to chat.freenode.net
491 2011-03-17 12:04:51 <BlueMatt> or irc.freenode.net
492 2011-03-17 12:05:33 <Icon> k trying thaks for the info
493 2011-03-17 12:06:54 <Icon> still getting connection refussed think it be my very old mirc cleint its like version 6.03
494 2011-03-17 12:07:03 <BlueMatt> should work
495 2011-03-17 12:07:05 <Icon> think they are to version 7x or something now
496 2011-03-17 12:07:11 <BlueMatt> google freenode mirc 6 or somethin
497 2011-03-17 12:07:13 <BlueMatt> g
498 2011-03-17 12:07:27 <Icon> i'll try the new version alos i dont have my ident port open that might be it
499 2011-03-17 12:07:47 <BlueMatt> shouldnt matter in the slightest
500 2011-03-17 12:08:24 <sipa> in fact, even if you were using the original irc client from 1994, it should work :p
501 2011-03-17 12:08:39 <BlueMatt> http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml
502 2011-03-17 12:09:08 <Icon> think i got it been a while since i used irc
503 2011-03-17 12:09:19 <Icon> had to select server after i edited the info :)
504 2011-03-17 12:10:20 <Icon> there i am :)
505 2011-03-17 12:10:36 <Icon> well off the web mirc thanks again all
506 2011-03-17 12:21:38 <joepie91> now I might be stupid
507 2011-03-17 12:21:45 <joepie91> but he connects to .org?
508 2011-03-17 12:21:57 <joepie91> that should be .net, right?
509 2011-03-17 12:25:13 <Lord_Icon> well think i got it all :)
510 2011-03-17 12:25:24 <Lord_Icon> someone had Icon nick :(
511 2011-03-17 12:25:50 <Lord_Icon> so think generation 100btc in under a week is lucky or just i am just that good :)
512 2011-03-17 12:26:00 <joepie91> ..
513 2011-03-17 12:26:01 <joepie91> that is
514 2011-03-17 12:26:03 <joepie91> lucky afaik
515 2011-03-17 12:26:04 <joepie91> lol
516 2011-03-17 12:26:10 <joepie91> or good
517 2011-03-17 12:26:11 <joepie91> no idea
518 2011-03-17 12:26:31 <joepie91> but I can't see my bitcoin instance generating 100btc anytime soon :P
519 2011-03-17 12:26:46 <Lord_Icon> do have a question though
520 2011-03-17 12:27:11 <Lord_Icon> the 100 blocks needed to wait per win does that prevent me from winning another 50 btc during that wait time?
521 2011-03-17 12:27:26 <BlueMatt> no
522 2011-03-17 12:27:55 <Lord_Icon> also the first time i won i noticed i got 50.01 btc this time its just even 50.00
523 2011-03-17 12:28:38 <dsg> You got 0.01 in transaction fee
524 2011-03-17 12:29:05 <Lord_Icon> ah well thats good :0
525 2011-03-17 12:29:09 <joepie91> ok, so I am going to work on an automated bitcoin payment gateway. Anything I should know?
526 2011-03-17 12:29:23 <joepie91> things to avoid etc
527 2011-03-17 12:29:33 <Lord_Icon> ya using an simi old 5670 i think ati card to do gpu minning
528 2011-03-17 12:32:02 <joepie91> and multiple people know more than one
529 2011-03-17 12:32:25 <BlueMatt> joepie91: and you have to make sure you protect properly against XSS and use https and  and and
530 2011-03-17 12:32:51 <joepie91> yes, I know that
531 2011-03-17 12:32:55 <joepie91> but that's pretty much standard practice
532 2011-03-17 12:33:03 <joepie91> I more specifically meant something related to bitcoin itself
533 2011-03-17 12:33:33 <BlueMatt> joepie91: ok, just wanted to make sure
534 2011-03-17 12:33:44 <joepie91> and as the system won't require any accounts at all, the XSS part suddenly becomes a lot less dangerous :)
535 2011-03-17 12:33:50 <joepie91> it will have a twopass callback system
536 2011-03-17 12:33:56 <joepie91> I believe the same way paypal does it
537 2011-03-17 12:33:57 <BlueMatt> I really don't want any noobs making a payemnt processor and messing it up
538 2011-03-17 12:34:05 <joepie91> no, I'll be ok with that :P
539 2011-03-17 12:34:13 <BlueMatt> ok, good
540 2011-03-17 12:34:20 <joepie91> idea is to either make the system send an email to the customer when the payment is received, or make a callback
541 2011-03-17 12:34:28 <BlueMatt> In terms of bitcoin, the best way right now is to generate a new address for each payment
542 2011-03-17 12:34:40 <joepie91> if a callback is made, it requests a certain page at another site, and that site will then have to send a request back to the gateway to confirm the callback was legit
543 2011-03-17 12:34:49 <BlueMatt> for large payments make sure you get a couple confirms first
544 2011-03-17 12:34:56 <joepie91> I will most likely use 6 confirms for every transaction
545 2011-03-17 12:35:07 <joepie91> to be completely on the safe side
546 2011-03-17 12:35:10 <BlueMatt> fair enough
547 2011-03-17 12:35:14 <joepie91> if the system uses callbacks, processing time is not very relevant anyway
548 2011-03-17 12:35:29 <joepie91> as long as the sites that implement them, tolerate the processing time
549 2011-03-17 12:35:47 <joepie91> can't have your order time out after 10 minutes :P
550 2011-03-17 12:35:59 <BlueMatt> or you could allow low small txes to have just 1-2 confirms
551 2011-03-17 12:36:09 <joepie91> ye, I will look into that
552 2011-03-17 12:36:16 <joepie91> maybe let the seller pick between 2 and 6
553 2011-03-17 12:36:17 <joepie91> or something
554 2011-03-17 12:36:33 <BlueMatt> sounds good to me
555 2011-03-17 12:36:44 <joepie91> depending on whether processing time, or confirmation, is more important to him
556 2011-03-17 12:37:08 <BlueMatt> really nothing too complicated about bitcoin, just new address for each transfer and check that it has been filled
557 2011-03-17 12:37:14 <joepie91> also, there won't be any processing fees, except for maybe 1 or 2 btc cents to give the payments priority.. but nothing will end up at me
558 2011-03-17 12:37:17 <joepie91> hm, ok
559 2011-03-17 12:37:20 <joepie91> should be easy enough then
560 2011-03-17 12:38:13 <joepie91> any suggestion on where to get cheap recognized ssl certificates?
561 2011-03-17 12:38:31 <joepie91> I can get one issued by anonops, but their root certificates are not trusted by most systems
562 2011-03-17 12:38:33 <BlueMatt> though make sure to prevent dos in that someone might just make you generate a TON of addresses
563 2011-03-17 12:38:41 <BlueMatt> startssl is free and good
564 2011-03-17 12:38:51 <joepie91> recognized too?
565 2011-03-17 12:38:56 <BlueMatt> yep
566 2011-03-17 12:39:16 <BlueMatt> I prefer CACert but they are also not recognized
567 2011-03-17 12:39:31 <joepie91> ye
568 2011-03-17 12:39:40 <joepie91> if I wouldn't need recognized certs I'd have asked anonops :P
569 2011-03-17 12:39:46 <joepie91> they already offered free SSL certs
570 2011-03-17 12:39:52 <joepie91> but ye... a trusted cert is probably better
571 2011-03-17 12:40:34 <joepie91> and about the site being secure.... to date, none of my websites has been successfully exploited
572 2011-03-17 12:41:08 <BlueMatt> are they popular targets?
573 2011-03-17 12:41:08 <joepie91> so that should be ok
574 2011-03-17 12:41:12 <joepie91> anonnews is :)
575 2011-03-17 12:41:31 <BlueMatt> oh you run anonnews?
576 2011-03-17 12:41:34 <joepie91> yup
577 2011-03-17 12:42:22 <joepie91> which desperately needs SSL, but the issue is with certificate vendors invalidating certificates
578 2011-03-17 12:42:29 <joepie91> whenever they spot anything related to anonymous
579 2011-03-17 12:42:41 <joepie91> which is... annoying
580 2011-03-17 12:42:55 <BlueMatt> really>
581 2011-03-17 12:42:56 <BlueMatt> ?
582 2011-03-17 12:44:35 <joepie91> yup
583 2011-03-17 12:44:45 <joepie91> anonops can give out a cert, but the issue is that they are not trusted..
584 2011-03-17 12:45:04 <joepie91> but I don't think I really have a choice :/
585 2011-03-17 12:45:42 <BlueMatt> startssl canceled it?
586 2011-03-17 12:46:57 <joepie91> haven't tried startssl yet, but so far apparently every provider has been pressured (by governments?) to pull out the certificates
587 2011-03-17 12:47:21 <joepie91> and judging from what I've seen, pretty much any registered company that offers SSL certs will be an issue
588 2011-03-17 12:48:31 <dsg> joepie91: Do you have links to these cases? Were these domains only domain-control validated or org/person validated?
589 2011-03-17 12:48:43 <dsg> This is news to me, and quite serious if true
590 2011-03-17 12:48:44 <joepie91> not documented on the internet, afaik
591 2011-03-17 12:49:15 <joepie91> but I often talk to a few opers on anonops :P
592 2011-03-17 12:49:19 <joepie91> (my support channel runs there)
593 2011-03-17 12:49:26 <joepie91> and I am not sure how they were validated
594 2011-03-17 12:49:34 <dsg> hmk. Please do encourage them to report these abuses so the world will know.
595 2011-03-17 12:49:35 <joepie91> but it's ridiculous how much pressure governments can exert anyway
596 2011-03-17 12:49:42 <joepie91> mye... I'll talk about it indeed
597 2011-03-17 12:49:47 <joepie91> might very well be worth it to document it
598 2011-03-17 12:49:57 <joepie91> but often it's terminated for "illegal activity"
599 2011-03-17 12:50:07 <joepie91> that's how the domains were seized
600 2011-03-17 12:50:14 <joepie91> s/seized/somehow disabled/
601 2011-03-17 12:50:51 <dsg> Sure, I know about the domains, but the SSL certs are news to me.
602 2011-03-17 12:51:11 <joepie91> I don't know the full story - and I won't claim I do - but as far as I know, the SSL certs were pulled out
603 2011-03-17 12:51:14 <Cerebrum_> Good morning
604 2011-03-17 12:51:25 <joepie91> that is why they set up their own root cert, and why they advised me to not get ssl certs from a company
605 2011-03-17 12:51:33 <joepie91> morning
606 2011-03-17 12:52:00 <joepie91> but it doesn't appear that many companies are friendly to anonymous :P
607 2011-03-17 12:52:07 <joepie91> google adsense flagged my account for "hateful content"
608 2011-03-17 12:52:12 <joepie91> being a comment page on anonnews
609 2011-03-17 12:52:38 <joepie91> apparently even the german pirate party has announced operation payback is not welcome on their etherpad service
610 2011-03-17 12:52:43 <joepie91> but that is not completely verified yet
611 2011-03-17 12:53:04 <joepie91> I believe santrex kicked a nameserver off their servers for anonleaks
612 2011-03-17 12:53:11 <joepie91> and several other anonymous-related services
613 2011-03-17 12:53:40 <Cerebrum_> So... I am somewhat confused about how you might get the sender's bitcoin address when you get a bitcoin transaction... does anyone know how to do that?
614 2011-03-17 12:53:44 <joepie91> linode urged the programmer of the anonleaks search to remove the search or their server would be cancelled
615 2011-03-17 12:53:46 <joepie91> and so on, and so on
616 2011-03-17 12:54:10 <Cerebrum_> I was looking at the RPC calls available, but it doesn't look like those will give me the address of the sender
617 2011-03-17 12:54:11 <joepie91> also, seconding Cerebrum_'s question... do transactions even have a sender address?
618 2011-03-17 12:54:43 <Cerebrum_> Well, I'm assuming that they do. How else would you figure out who the bitcoins came from if you were running an exchange esrvice?
619 2011-03-17 12:54:57 <FellowTraveler> you create a new address each time to receive
620 2011-03-17 12:55:11 <FellowTraveler> that way you know who sent the funds, because that's the only person you gave that address to.
621 2011-03-17 12:55:17 <joepie91> ^
622 2011-03-17 12:55:39 <joepie91> you can only see the sender in a transaction that is sent to an IP, right?
623 2011-03-17 12:55:56 <joepie91> at least, according to what I've seen in my transfers
624 2011-03-17 12:56:03 <Cerebrum_> I see. That's a somewhat strange model. But I'll work with it.
625 2011-03-17 12:56:09 <joepie91> (none of my transfers carries a sender according to the bitcoin software)
626 2011-03-17 12:56:12 <FellowTraveler> it's strange, but that's bitcoin.
627 2011-03-17 12:56:30 <joepie91> heh, I've told a few people about it now... people find it incredibly hard to understand bitcoin
628 2011-03-17 12:56:48 <FellowTraveler> it will be easy when the GUI is there.
629 2011-03-17 12:56:51 <joepie91> oddly, the questions aren't even "how does it work technically"
630 2011-03-17 12:56:52 <Cerebrum_> LoL, I told an economics professor about it
631 2011-03-17 12:57:00 <joepie91> but more like "how can people accept that?"
632 2011-03-17 12:57:09 <Cerebrum_> He thought I was bats until I told him about the returns I mad investing when they were still cheap
633 2011-03-17 12:57:11 <joepie91> FellowTraveler: the windows software has a GUI?
634 2011-03-17 12:57:18 <joepie91> heh
635 2011-03-17 12:57:19 <Cerebrum_> Then he wanted to know where he could watch hte markets
636 2011-03-17 12:57:23 <joepie91> haha
637 2011-03-17 12:57:36 <FellowTraveler> joepie91 my point is that when someone makes a GUI that is easy, then people will see bitcoin as easy
638 2011-03-17 12:57:50 <joepie91> well... tbh, the "standard" bitcoin software is dead easy
639 2011-03-17 12:57:58 <joepie91> I don't think it will come much easier
640 2011-03-17 12:58:04 <FellowTraveler> it can be more intuitive obviously
641 2011-03-17 12:58:07 <joepie91> except for maybe a wallet backup feature so that people don't have to write their own scripts
642 2011-03-17 12:58:32 <joepie91> mh... the bitcoin software pretty much consists of a transaction list, a send button, and an address list :P
643 2011-03-17 13:04:00 <tcatm> BlueMatt: do you know git well enough to fix my about dialog mess? i.e. can I re-apply that commit somehow?
644 2011-03-17 13:04:33 <BlueMatt> tcatm: cant reapply the commit, just change the two lines to 2011
645 2011-03-17 13:04:44 <BlueMatt> well AFAIK I dont know git that well
646 2011-03-17 13:06:44 <vrs> BlueMatt: still need hosting?
647 2011-03-17 13:07:26 <BlueMatt> vrs: no, validus hooked me up
648 2011-03-17 13:07:30 <BlueMatt> vrs: thanks though
649 2011-03-17 13:07:44 <BlueMatt> unless you have some really fast speeds
650 2011-03-17 13:09:59 <mizerydearia> Would anyone like to beta test the charity implementation?
651 2011-03-17 13:12:30 <mizerydearia> bitcoinbulletin, bitcoinbulletin.com?
652 2011-03-17 13:17:09 <tcatm> BlueMatt: looks like your patched bitcoind is actually a 64bit binary
653 2011-03-17 13:17:25 <BlueMatt> oh oops
654 2011-03-17 13:17:39 <BlueMatt> compiled it on my laptop and forgot it's not my vm
655 2011-03-17 13:18:14 <BlueMatt> yea I'll change that when I get home
656 2011-03-17 13:18:26 <rli1> ;;bc,stats
657 2011-03-17 13:18:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113882 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1029 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 6 hours, 56 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65713.48205269
658 2011-03-17 13:18:39 <Aciid> Nefario: If you bring the chinese users to Bitcoin, be adviced to support them.
659 2011-03-17 13:20:17 <CIA-95> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rb7ebc66 / (uibase.cpp uiproject.fbp): Update copyright in About box from 2010 to 2011 - http://bit.ly/dFj5Lv
660 2011-03-17 13:21:15 <tcatm> BlueMatt: gitk (I think it does git cherry-pick) can re-apply a commit :)
661 2011-03-17 13:22:25 <Aciid> where do these chinese people keep coming from
662 2011-03-17 13:22:29 <BlueMatt> tcatm not sure if the original commit had more than just the two lines but that would be simpler in any case
663 2011-03-17 13:22:36 <Tesla_> I just downloaded bitcoin and I noticed it's taking quite a while to download all the blocks. As the amount of blocks linearly grows, will the time it takes to download them all and "get going" also increase?
664 2011-03-17 13:22:45 <Aciid> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?board=5.0
665 2011-03-17 13:23:31 <joepie91> Tesla_ probably yes I guess
666 2011-03-17 13:23:38 <joepie91> but you'll only have to get them in the start :)
667 2011-03-17 13:24:01 <Tesla_> but if bitcoins ever grows to become a worldwide currency, is that sustainable?
668 2011-03-17 13:24:49 <BlueMatt> tesla_ get the blockchain nightly from bitcoin.bluematt.me ;)
669 2011-03-17 13:25:10 <sipa> Tesla_: people won't be running clients that store the whole block chain anymore, probably
670 2011-03-17 13:25:58 <Tesla_> oh, I see. Because there will be enough clients for it to be broken apart?
671 2011-03-17 13:26:08 <vrs> BlueMatt: 100mbit unmetered
672 2011-03-17 13:26:27 <vrs> and another 100mbit with a 10tb limit :)
673 2011-03-17 13:26:36 <BlueMatt> vrs oooo wow well I could always use a mirror
674 2011-03-17 13:28:41 <Tesla_> Am I correct in thinking that?
675 2011-03-17 13:28:45 <BlueMatt> vrs if you don't mind letting me use it as a webserver...I'll be home in around 30 min, can you msg me then?
676 2011-03-17 13:29:37 <BlueMatt> tesla_ no, it's just that a regular client who just sends and recieves money doesn't really need the blockchain
677 2011-03-17 13:29:51 <vrs> you got a query :)
678 2011-03-17 13:30:17 <Tesla_> Oh, I see. Thanks for that answer (:
679 2011-03-17 13:37:55 <joepie91> hrm
680 2011-03-17 13:37:56 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
681 2011-03-17 13:37:58 <joepie91> worldwide currency...
682 2011-03-17 13:38:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113885 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1026 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 6 hours, 21 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65797.03960168
683 2011-03-17 13:38:13 <joepie91> I am not sure if 21 million btc would be enough to provide btc for a whole world population
684 2011-03-17 13:38:37 <BlueMatt> you can divide it up to 8 decimal places
685 2011-03-17 13:38:38 <sipa> it is divisible to 0.00000001 BTC
686 2011-03-17 13:38:50 <joepie91> I kno
687 2011-03-17 13:38:51 <joepie91> know*
688 2011-03-17 13:38:57 <joepie91> but I think that when it suddenly catches on
689 2011-03-17 13:39:07 <joepie91> you'd get an extreme change of the worth of a BTC
690 2011-03-17 13:39:18 <EvanR-work> fifth time this week someone complained about 21 million not being enough
691 2011-03-17 13:39:18 <joepie91> I'm not an expert at economics though :P
692 2011-03-17 13:39:19 <sipa> which means that if 21M BTC were to correspond to the entire USD M2 supply now, a penny would be close to 0.00000001 BTC
693 2011-03-17 13:39:24 <joepie91> no, not a complaint
694 2011-03-17 13:39:30 <EvanR-work> same thing every week ;)
695 2011-03-17 13:39:30 <joepie91> just something to think about :)
696 2011-03-17 13:39:36 <joepie91> mhh
697 2011-03-17 13:39:42 <joepie91> I think it's good to keep people thinking about it
698 2011-03-17 13:39:46 <sipa> of course
699 2011-03-17 13:39:57 <EvanR-work> nah, screw it
700 2011-03-17 13:39:57 <joepie91> it makes people not blindly follow something like a drone and not care about how it works
701 2011-03-17 13:39:58 <joepie91> :)
702 2011-03-17 13:40:09 <EvanR-work> have faith my son
703 2011-03-17 13:40:34 <luke-jr> joepie91: microBTC are
704 2011-03-17 13:40:48 <joepie91> lol
705 2011-03-17 13:40:48 <luke-jr> joepie91: we've already had some extreme changes
706 2011-03-17 13:40:56 <joepie91> no such thing as koolaid around here
707 2011-03-17 13:41:08 <xelister> market crashing? ;)
708 2011-03-17 13:41:09 <joepie91> ah
709 2011-03-17 13:41:24 <Strom> the fact that it has to be fractions is bad in terms of marketing imo
710 2011-03-17 13:41:25 <EvanR-work> gribble should have a command to link to a full discussion about the 21million and 8decimal places 'problem'
711 2011-03-17 13:41:29 <joepie91> I can imagine a slashdot / reddit frontpage of bitcoin would crash the market somewhat
712 2011-03-17 13:41:39 <joepie91> :P
713 2011-03-17 13:41:46 <sipa> joepie91: bitcoin has been slashdotted twice
714 2011-03-17 13:41:51 <Strom> you might be able to explain the value situation to some people, but most will just not like it because the absolute number is small
715 2011-03-17 13:41:52 <EvanR-work> slash dot had two bitcoin articles, and it was good, not bad
716 2011-03-17 13:42:03 <EvanR-work> Strom: like grams of gold? ;)
717 2011-03-17 13:42:12 <sipa> you can see the first one here: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed.png
718 2011-03-17 13:42:13 <EvanR-work> is like 40 dollars
719 2011-03-17 13:42:29 <Strom> EvanR-work, yeah like grams of gold sure ... nobody has ever offered me gold for anything
720 2011-03-17 13:42:45 <Strom> it's a niche thing
721 2011-03-17 13:42:48 <EvanR-work> its a presentational thing
722 2011-03-17 13:42:58 <EvanR-work> if you change the units, people will not be afraid anymore
723 2011-03-17 13:43:05 <joepie91> hm
724 2011-03-17 13:43:10 <EvanR-work> i have 3000000000 microcoins or so
725 2011-03-17 13:43:11 <joepie91> maybe introduce some sort of pseudo-bitcoin
726 2011-03-17 13:43:12 <EvanR-work> im rich!
727 2011-03-17 13:43:13 <Strom> sure, but that's what I'm saying EvanR-work
728 2011-03-17 13:43:22 <joepie91> that is basically 1/10000th of a bitcoin
729 2011-03-17 13:43:22 <Strom> that it's not presented in a marketable way currently
730 2011-03-17 13:43:27 <joepie91> it is not a different currency
731 2011-03-17 13:43:35 <joepie91> just a more tangible way for the average btc user
732 2011-03-17 13:43:41 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
733 2011-03-17 13:43:43 <EvanR-work> Strom: ok but its not a fundamental weakenss
734 2011-03-17 13:43:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 113885 | Current Difficulty: 76193.9710474 | Next Difficulty At Block: 114911 | Next Difficulty In: 1026 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 6 hours, 21 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 65797.03960168
735 2011-03-17 13:43:55 <joepie91> and ye, like microcoins
736 2011-03-17 13:44:08 <joepie91> but in a way that people can actually _enter_ a value in that currency in their clients etc
737 2011-03-17 13:44:32 <EvanR-work> all it takes it a client update
738 2011-03-17 13:44:39 <Strom> EvanR-work, it's not a fundamental weakness if we change the way it works fast and then stick to it ... otherwise it'll be like zimbabwe's currency .. with zeroes being added weekly
739 2011-03-17 13:45:04 <joepie91> I think you don't have to change the currency, ever
740 2011-03-17 13:45:09 <EvanR-work> presentation isnt going to help anything if it turns into zimbabwe
741 2011-03-17 13:45:11 <joepie91> you just have to change the _perception_ of the currency
742 2011-03-17 13:45:28 <EvanR-work> if it has value it has value, doesnt matter how you write it down
743 2011-03-17 13:45:48 <EvanR-work> also, it wont be zimbabwe since you cant produce unlimitted coins
744 2011-03-17 13:46:17 <joepie91> of course it has value
745 2011-03-17 13:46:20 <joepie91> but it has to be tangible for end users
746 2011-03-17 13:46:24 <Strom> EvanR-work, I understand that it if it has value then it has value, but what I'm arguing is that this argument will not work on most people
747 2011-03-17 13:46:30 <Strom> they want comparable numbers to what they know
748 2011-03-17 13:46:37 <joepie91> it's going to be incredibly hard to say "this game consols costs 0.000000011 bitcoins"
749 2011-03-17 13:46:39 <Strom> otherwise it will be too much change to even bother to try to use it
750 2011-03-17 13:46:43 <EvanR-work> Strom: are you talking about americans?
751 2011-03-17 13:46:50 <EvanR-work> and USD?
752 2011-03-17 13:46:57 <joepie91> you could more easily say "this game console costs 11 micro-bitcoins"
753 2011-03-17 13:46:59 <joepie91> even if it's the same
754 2011-03-17 13:47:11 <Blitzboom> well just make ???bitcoins, millibitcoins etc.
755 2011-03-17 13:47:13 <EvanR-work> 0.000011 is microcoins
756 2011-03-17 13:47:28 <Strom> EvanR-work, well I'm talking about people in general but sure we could use americans and USD as an example
757 2011-03-17 13:47:41 <EvanR-work> thats a little myopic
758 2011-03-17 13:48:06 <joepie91> I'd just say uBTC
759 2011-03-17 13:48:12 <joepie91> it's not a different currency
760 2011-03-17 13:48:14 <Blitzboom> if the value of bitcoins surpasses dollar-parity again, we should make 0.001 possible
761 2011-03-17 13:48:15 <EvanR-work> look at what people pay and how their money works in other countries, they have larger numeric values and they go through regular revaluations ;)
762 2011-03-17 13:48:17 <joepie91> it's just BTC divided by a certain number
763 2011-03-17 13:48:28 <joepie91> it's a notation, not an alternative currency
764 2011-03-17 13:48:38 <EvanR-work> Blitzboom: thats planned for next version of the client, if i heard right
765 2011-03-17 13:48:39 <joepie91> when there are enough coins in circulation, I mean
766 2011-03-17 13:48:47 <Blitzboom> EvanR-work: the next version?
767 2011-03-17 13:49:00 <EvanR-work> to let you type in less than 0.01
768 2011-03-17 13:49:02 <UukGoblin> I started a forum thread about uBTC and the like a while ago
769 2011-03-17 13:49:14 <Blitzboom> yeah, i think we need that for NANOpayments ;)
770 2011-03-17 13:49:36 <Blitzboom> its just cool to tip someone with tenth a cent
771 2011-03-17 13:49:49 <BlueMatt> and pay .01 in fees
772 2011-03-17 13:50:01 <Blitzboom> cant you pay less?
773 2011-03-17 13:50:16 <BlueMatt> not if outputs are <.01
774 2011-03-17 13:50:16 <joepie91> I don't think you'd want to pay less anymore
775 2011-03-17 13:50:20 <joepie91> 0.01 is now standard anyway
776 2011-03-17 13:50:25 <xelister> guys o/
777 2011-03-17 13:50:26 <EvanR-work> you can avoid the fee if you send something like 10.001 ;)
778 2011-03-17 13:50:34 <xelister> Im inventing an escroow service using btc, woot?
779 2011-03-17 13:50:36 <joepie91> so anything with 0.01 will take priority over your 0.000001 fee, right?
780 2011-03-17 13:50:37 <Blitzboom> is this fee arbitrary?
781 2011-03-17 13:50:39 <BlueMatt> it's largely for pools
782 2011-03-17 13:50:42 <joepie91> xelister: good
783 2011-03-17 13:50:46 <joepie91> I'm going to work on a payment gateway :P
784 2011-03-17 13:50:53 <EvanR-work> Blitzboom: i think its a miner policy
785 2011-03-17 13:51:02 <xelister> friend (of friend)  is in UK nas has ??? in UK bank.       He wants quickly to give PLN in PL to someone.   How to?
786 2011-03-17 13:51:16 <Strom> EvanR-work, I live in estonia personally and I have used three currencies in my lifetime, from russian rubles to estonian kroons to euroes
787 2011-03-17 13:51:23 <EvanR-work> so no problem?
788 2011-03-17 13:51:30 <Strom> so I think it's fair to say I'm aware of how different currencies and the number changes work
789 2011-03-17 13:51:35 <EvanR-work> all those have roughly USD numbers though
790 2011-03-17 13:51:48 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: nano is impossible
791 2011-03-17 13:51:49 <EvanR-work> people in general wont be afraid of large numbers
792 2011-03-17 13:52:02 <joepie91> large numbers =/= long numbers
793 2011-03-17 13:52:11 <joepie91> 100000000 uBTC won't be a problem
794 2011-03-17 13:52:15 <joepie91> 0.00000001 BTC most likely will
795 2011-03-17 13:52:16 <EvanR-work> im talking about large numbers like microcoins
796 2011-03-17 13:52:30 <EvanR-work> (and your strings have the same length there basically)
797 2011-03-17 13:52:35 <joepie91> yes, it does
798 2011-03-17 13:52:37 <joepie91> that is what I am saying
799 2011-03-17 13:52:41 <joepie91> long numbers =/= large numbers
800 2011-03-17 13:52:48 <EvanR-work> yes hows that related
801 2011-03-17 13:52:48 <joepie91> the latter will feel like "nothing" to people
802 2011-03-17 13:52:53 <Blitzboom> 0.001 would be milli
803 2011-03-17 13:52:56 <joepie91> because they are too used to other currencies
804 2011-03-17 13:53:09 <joepie91> I cannot think of _any_ currencies that have that many decimals
805 2011-03-17 13:53:13 <EvanR-work> it works this way in science and engineering
806 2011-03-17 13:53:18 <EvanR-work> you just change units when you get below 1
807 2011-03-17 13:53:26 <joepie91> yes, exactly
808 2011-03-17 13:53:28 <joepie91> hence
809 2011-03-17 13:53:29 <joepie91> uBTC
810 2011-03-17 13:53:31 <EvanR-work> done
811 2011-03-17 13:53:35 <EvanR-work> sorted
812 2011-03-17 13:53:50 <joepie91> instead of saying "you owe me 0.0000001BTC for that game console" you say "you owe me 1 uBTC for that console"
813 2011-03-17 13:53:57 <EvanR-work> you mean 0.000001
814 2011-03-17 13:54:01 <joepie91> completely arbitrary number of zeroes I used there
815 2011-03-17 13:54:10 <joepie91> it's an example
816 2011-03-17 13:54:34 <joepie91> this will only be relevant when BTC rise a lot more in worth
817 2011-03-17 13:54:39 <luke-jr> joepie91: or if Tonal gains widespread adoption, you could just use TBC! :D
818 2011-03-17 13:54:41 <joepie91> but it should be possible
819 2011-03-17 13:54:46 <joepie91> as soon as possible
820 2011-03-17 13:54:48 <Blitzboom> i hope we will use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix#List_of_SI_prefixes
821 2011-03-17 13:54:49 <joepie91> or you will be too late to the party
822 2011-03-17 13:54:53 <joepie91> mh
823 2011-03-17 13:54:55 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: I hope SI will die
824 2011-03-17 13:54:59 <joepie91> I'd stick to 1 or maybe 2 pseudocurrencies
825 2011-03-17 13:55:03 <joepie91> no more
826 2011-03-17 13:55:05 <Blitzboom> luke-jr: why?
827 2011-03-17 13:55:05 <EvanR-work> i correctly predicted to appearance of TBTC with my statistical model here
828 2011-03-17 13:55:20 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: because it's decimal crap
829 2011-03-17 13:55:40 <Blitzboom> tonal troll
830 2011-03-17 13:55:46 <xelister> >_>
831 2011-03-17 13:56:05 <Blitzboom> decimal will not die in the forseeable future, just like qwertz-keyboards
832 2011-03-17 13:56:08 <Blitzboom> deal with it
833 2011-03-17 13:56:15 <joepie91> xelister: what was your idea for the escrow?
834 2011-03-17 13:56:18 <Blitzboom> qwerty*
835 2011-03-17 13:56:22 <EvanR-work> i said the calendar was crap and so switched to 'metric time', that is, integer number of seconds past an epoch, but i eventually found i could not actually use it personally so i gave up
836 2011-03-17 13:56:26 <xelister> joepie91: well question above... is there easy solution to it?
837 2011-03-17 13:56:30 <EvanR-work> i wonder if luke-jr is any good at tonal
838 2011-03-17 13:56:36 <joepie91> no idea
839 2011-03-17 13:56:44 <joepie91> I am not that actively using btc yet
840 2011-03-17 13:56:55 <EvanR-work> Blitzboom: thing is decimal isnt even nearly as bad as qwerty
841 2011-03-17 13:56:57 <joepie91> nor do I exchange other currencies often
842 2011-03-17 13:57:01 <joepie91> (eurofag here)
843 2011-03-17 13:57:11 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: it's most of the way there
844 2011-03-17 13:57:19 <joepie91> my only currency exchanges are euro's to USD for hosting
845 2011-03-17 13:57:36 <luke-jr> joepie91: could get hosting for BTC from me
846 2011-03-17 13:57:38 <EvanR-work> its just a writing system, everyone can read and write it, we all have number sense which is transcends how its written
847 2011-03-17 13:57:50 <joepie91> luke-jr: already got my hosting :) I have several VPSes
848 2011-03-17 13:57:58 <joepie91> and I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket
849 2011-03-17 13:58:07 <joepie91> so my hosting is spread over several hosts, datacenters, and even countries
850 2011-03-17 13:58:40 <joepie91> mostly budget hosts though - and no vps in europe anymore
851 2011-03-17 13:58:48 <joepie91> (shitty host was shitty)
852 2011-03-17 13:58:59 <EvanR-work> for exact calculations we use computers, and its not worth overhauling the entire worlds writing systems to make it easier for one guy to do his change correctly when hes working at walmart
853 2011-03-17 14:00:16 <luke-jr> EvanR-work: you're thinking money too much
854 2011-03-17 14:00:44 <EvanR-work> its the only place i dont use a computer to get exact numerics
855 2011-03-17 14:01:00 <EvanR-work> at least since i graduated
856 2011-03-17 15:15:18 <forrestv> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkJ2gQVSDxA makes me think of bitcoin :p
857 2011-03-17 15:16:32 <forrestv> 'But if I work it one more day- I might just break the Chain...'
858 2011-03-17 15:33:42 <mtve> would somebody please point me to the right direction - what negative transaction fee meant?   i.e. http://blockexplorer.com/t/9qtGkKDhVx or better http://blockexplorer.com/t/5t5thY5Cn1
859 2011-03-17 15:34:51 <luke-jr> WTF
860 2011-03-17 15:34:54 <[Tycho]> Wow, nice :)))
861 2011-03-17 15:35:06 <nanotube> mtve: that's a spend of a generation tx that had fees in it.
862 2011-03-17 15:35:11 <luke-jr> oh
863 2011-03-17 15:35:14 <luke-jr> mtve: that's a generation tx
864 2011-03-17 15:35:24 <luke-jr> nanotube: not the spend of
865 2011-03-17 15:35:34 <nanotube> ah is it the actual gen?
866 2011-03-17 15:35:35 <mtve> argh, sorry, nevermind.  been coding too much.
867 2011-03-17 15:35:40 <luke-jr> yes
868 2011-03-17 15:35:44 <nanotube> ok
869 2011-03-17 15:35:54 <[Tycho]> Negative fee would be funny :)
870 2011-03-17 15:36:15 <nanotube> yep, i'd be sending some btc for sure, then. :)
871 2011-03-17 15:56:10 <BlueMatt> good morning jgarzik
872 2011-03-17 15:57:31 <jgarzik> heh
873 2011-03-17 15:57:39 <jgarzik> someone registered scratchcoin.com on March 1 of this year
874 2011-03-17 15:58:02 <xelister> is it a product for people when they got itches
875 2011-03-17 15:58:08 <BlueMatt> lol nice
876 2011-03-17 15:58:20 <BlueMatt> scratchbtc?
877 2011-03-17 15:58:41 <jgarzik> bitscratch.com is available :)
878 2011-03-17 15:59:01 <BlueMatt> considering merging your scratch branch into -patched
879 2011-03-17 15:59:12 <xelister> what is scratch?
880 2011-03-17 15:59:19 <xelister> oh
881 2011-03-17 15:59:28 <jgarzik> xelister: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4555.0