1 2011-03-26 00:00:48 <Raulo> midnightmagic: I've got to go. If you have some further comments, write them in  the "Optimal pool abuse strategy" thread
  2 2011-03-26 00:01:01 <glassresistor> i believe so
  3 2011-03-26 00:01:05 <midnightmagic> Raulo: ah goodness, I hope you weren't waiting for me to grok your paper and provide comments.. :(
  4 2011-03-26 00:01:08 <midnightmagic> Raulo: but thank you.
  5 2011-03-26 00:01:10 <midnightmagic> i will
  6 2011-03-26 00:01:34 <glassresistor> http://mining.bitcoin.cz
  7 2011-03-26 00:01:50 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:00:40] JSON decode failed(1): '[' or '{' expected near '<'
  8 2011-03-26 00:01:52 <lfm> glassresistor: maybe userpass error
  9 2011-03-26 00:01:55 <glassresistor> is my error
 10 2011-03-26 00:02:45 <glassresistor> nope, atleast i don't think so
 11 2011-03-26 00:02:53 <glassresistor> im copy and pasting them
 12 2011-03-26 00:03:29 <lfm> k remove the "<" ?
 13 2011-03-26 00:04:05 <glassresistor> im not including a <
 14 2011-03-26 00:04:10 <glassresistor> < HTTP/1.1 200 OK
 15 2011-03-26 00:04:11 <glassresistor> < Server: nginx/0.7.65
 16 2011-03-26 00:04:13 <glassresistor> < Content-Type: text/html
 17 2011-03-26 00:04:16 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Content-Type): text/html
 18 2011-03-26 00:04:18 <glassresistor> < Transfer-Encoding: chunked
 19 2011-03-26 00:04:20 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Transfer-Encoding): chunked
 20 2011-03-26 00:04:23 <glassresistor> < Connection: keep-alive
 21 2011-03-26 00:04:25 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Connection): keep-alive
 22 2011-03-26 00:04:28 <glassresistor> < Content-Encoding: gzip
 23 2011-03-26 00:04:30 <glassresistor> [2011-02-25 21:03:36] HTTP hdr(Content-Encoding): gzip
 24 2011-03-26 00:04:33 <glassresistor> <
 25 2011-03-26 00:04:35 <glassresistor> * Connection #0 to host mining.bitcoin.cz left intact
 26 2011-03-26 00:04:36 <lfm> wtf
 27 2011-03-26 00:04:38 <glassresistor> sorry for the spam
 28 2011-03-26 00:04:40 <glassresistor> that was suppose to go on pasted but thats what i got
 29 2011-03-26 00:04:49 <glassresistor> thats what im getting back
 30 2011-03-26 00:05:03 <lfm> wrong port?
 31 2011-03-26 00:05:29 <jgarzik> lfm: I bet that's it...
 32 2011-03-26 00:05:37 <da2ce7> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4739.msg72508#msg72508
 33 2011-03-26 00:05:45 <da2ce7> well boys, have a look
 34 2011-03-26 00:05:57 <Diablo-D3> YOUR MOTHHEERRRRRRR
 35 2011-03-26 00:06:04 <glassresistor> yeah its the default port must bebusted
 36 2011-03-26 00:06:25 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: you couldnt afford me anyhow
 37 2011-03-26 00:06:31 <lfm> ya if you specify the host you need the port too
 38 2011-03-26 00:07:20 <xenon481> My services are typically sold at $2,000USD per day.
 39 2011-03-26 00:07:39 <lfm> are you a hooker?
 40 2011-03-26 00:07:51 <glassresistor> da2ce7: im have the experience and write code and docs everyday
 41 2011-03-26 00:07:52 <Diablo-D3> jesus, you could hire at least 10 of me at xenon's prices
 42 2011-03-26 00:08:22 <xenon481> I personally don't rake that full $2000/day, but that is what my company charges our customers when I'm on site.
 43 2011-03-26 00:09:12 <Diablo-D3> actually, about 8 of me
 44 2011-03-26 00:09:45 <x420024x> The Lightfoot Hosting node is not responsive.
 45 2011-03-26 00:09:53 <alias420> $2000 for a days work is decent
 46 2011-03-26 00:10:12 <x420024x> "8333/tcp filtered"
 47 2011-03-26 00:10:19 <alias420> $2000 for doing nothing is better :)
 48 2011-03-26 00:10:39 <x420024x> that should say open, so since it is closed, that means that nobody can use it right now, correct?
 49 2011-03-26 00:10:52 <x420024x> s/closed/filtered/
 50 2011-03-26 00:14:12 <Lachesis> can I use the RPC method 'sendmany' with the default account?
 51 2011-03-26 00:15:40 <[Tycho]> "[2011-02-25 21:00:40] JSON decode failed(1): '[' or '{' expected near '<'" - looks like someone is trying to parse HTML as JSON.
 52 2011-03-26 00:16:10 <slush> [Tycho]: that's from the forum?
 53 2011-03-26 00:16:25 <[Tycho]> From forum too.
 54 2011-03-26 00:16:41 <[Tycho]> It's glassresistor
 55 2011-03-26 00:17:12 <jgarzik> glassresistor: the default HTTP port is 80, slush's HTML website for web browsers
 56 2011-03-26 00:17:17 <jgarzik> glassresistor: you _must_ specify the port
 57 2011-03-26 00:17:33 <x420024x> is Lightfoot's Hosting Node 173.242.112.53 offline??
 58 2011-03-26 00:17:57 <slush> [Tycho]: which I'm doing now :)
 59 2011-03-26 00:18:08 <[Tycho]> slush, yes, it's very good.
 60 2011-03-26 00:18:20 <[Tycho]> But jgarzik doesn't checks it :(
 61 2011-03-26 00:18:45 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: I used to... then slush's code broke that by returning !application/json  ;-)
 62 2011-03-26 00:19:00 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: so I removed that check
 63 2011-03-26 00:19:02 <slush> jgarzik: what? Am I doing something wrong?
 64 2011-03-26 00:19:24 <slush> application/json is correct, isn't it?
 65 2011-03-26 00:19:35 <jgarzik> slush: at least +1 month ago, I told you that you were returning "text/html" content-type, when it should be "application/json"
 66 2011-03-26 00:19:52 <[Tycho]> Trying to parse HTML as JSON confuses users, which we see in this case.
 67 2011-03-26 00:19:57 <slush> yes, I changed it because Tycho was very sad for it :))
 68 2011-03-26 00:20:57 <[Tycho]> Because it looks like miner or pool is broken.
 69 2011-03-26 00:22:38 <baaaacon> should the long poll using GET or POST?
 70 2011-03-26 00:22:58 <jgarzik> opinions differ :)
 71 2011-03-26 00:23:02 <luke-jr> PUT
 72 2011-03-26 00:23:09 <luke-jr> j/k ;)
 73 2011-03-26 00:23:24 <[Tycho]> I would prefer to keep GET.
 74 2011-03-26 00:23:37 <jgarzik> baaaacon: the spec says GET, but cpuminer uses POST.  I can explain why if you're interested, but you're probably not.  :)
 75 2011-03-26 00:23:38 <baaaacon> since it waiting for server to respond would GET be better?
 76 2011-03-26 00:23:39 <[Tycho]> Who is baaaacon ?
 77 2011-03-26 00:23:47 <jgarzik> baaaacon: irrelevant
 78 2011-03-26 00:24:02 <Lachesis> jgarzik, i am
 79 2011-03-26 00:24:18 <Lachesis> what does bitcoind do when starting up? it pins my cpu for like 90 seconds.
 80 2011-03-26 00:25:10 <baaaacon> I read bitcoin from slashdot
 81 2011-03-26 00:25:30 <luke-jr> it should use SSE
 82 2011-03-26 00:25:37 <baaaacon> sorry my english bad
 83 2011-03-26 00:25:47 <jgarzik> Ok :)  cpuminer uses POST because that employs the same JSON-RPC code paths and behavior as non-LP connection.  Same behavior, very predictable.  But the spec wants a different protocol (requiring, obviously, more code and complexity) to do the same thing -- get a unit of work.
 84 2011-03-26 00:26:12 <jgarzik> Thus, GET is actually more complicated, because it's different from normal POST behavior of bitcoind JSON-RPC.
 85 2011-03-26 00:27:11 <luke-jr> http://dev.w3.org/html5/eventsource/#processing-model
 86 2011-03-26 00:27:19 <luke-jr> SSE implies GET it seems
 87 2011-03-26 00:27:25 <luke-jr> but it doesn't explicitly specify either
 88 2011-03-26 00:27:47 <luke-jr> SSE would be more complex for other reasons ofc
 89 2011-03-26 00:28:51 <jgarzik> In any case, LP is temporary until we all decide on push protocol
 90 2011-03-26 00:29:13 <[Tycho]> Initially i used GET because there was nginx module suitable for this.
 91 2011-03-26 00:29:42 <luke-jr> jgarzik: would SSE be too complex, IYO?
 92 2011-03-26 00:30:02 <jgarzik> luke-jr: far more complex than the already-implemented Binary Data Protocol
 93 2011-03-26 00:30:24 <[Tycho]> What binary data protocol ?
 94 2011-03-26 00:30:27 <LobsterMan> just added this to my site if anyone wants to take a look :)
 95 2011-03-26 00:30:45 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3493.0
 96 2011-03-26 00:30:45 <luke-jr> LobsterMan: didn't you add that months ago?
 97 2011-03-26 00:30:53 <LobsterMan> this is a new one for using slush's pool
 98 2011-03-26 00:30:56 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: I'm currently implementing this in bitcoind
 99 2011-03-26 00:31:23 <baaaacon> how to do push? miner have port forward?
100 2011-03-26 00:31:30 <[Tycho]> LobsterMan, i should vote against it, of course :)
101 2011-03-26 00:32:37 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why not use standard HTTP auth?
102 2011-03-26 00:33:12 <slush> baaaacon: no, miner open tcp connection to the pool and pool send jobs on that
103 2011-03-26 00:33:17 <jgarzik> luke-jr: in the binary protocol?  because it's not HTTP.
104 2011-03-26 00:33:27 <jgarzik> or anything remotely resembling HTTP.
105 2011-03-26 00:33:38 <luke-jr> jgarzik: oh, pure TCP? what's the GET/POST talk then?
106 2011-03-26 00:33:53 <jgarzik> luke-jr: long-polling.
107 2011-03-26 00:34:35 <x420024x> Raulo:  could you help me understand that code on the forum better?
108 2011-03-26 00:35:05 <x420024x> what do you mean by "independ.(ent)"?
109 2011-03-26 00:36:18 <x420024x> do you mean solo-mining?
110 2011-03-26 00:37:22 <ne0futur> anyone interested /join #bitcoin-ads
111 2011-03-26 00:37:44 <[Tycho]> Anyone interested in VDS for BTC ? :)
112 2011-03-26 00:38:16 <Netsniper> venerial diseases?
113 2011-03-26 00:38:25 <[Tycho]> Virtual servers.
114 2011-03-26 00:38:32 <Netsniper> oh
115 2011-03-26 00:38:38 <BurtyB> awe Netsniper beat me to it
116 2011-03-26 00:39:16 <Netsniper> transmitting them anonymously seemed interesting!
117 2011-03-26 00:40:18 <Diablo-D3> ...
118 2011-03-26 00:40:38 <BurtyB> heh
119 2011-03-26 00:42:18 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: they're called VPS these days
120 2011-03-26 00:42:29 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: and there's already at least 2 providers, including me
121 2011-03-26 00:43:11 <x420024x> why r bitcoin transactions not being processed right now?
122 2011-03-26 00:43:24 <luke-jr> x420024x: they are
123 2011-03-26 00:43:47 <x420024x> I have lots of unconfirmed earnings that are hours and hours old
124 2011-03-26 00:44:13 <luke-jr> x420024x: how much fee did you pay?
125 2011-03-26 00:44:25 <x420024x> um, i dont know
126 2011-03-26 00:44:41 <x420024x> i didnt pay anything im waiting to be paid
127 2011-03-26 00:44:48 <luke-jr> if you don't pay a fee, it can take a while
128 2011-03-26 00:44:50 <luke-jr> oh
129 2011-03-26 00:44:51 <curiositysquared> sipa around?
130 2011-03-26 00:44:52 <luke-jr> if they didn't, then
131 2011-03-26 00:45:12 <luke-jr> I don't think the GUIs have any way for receiver to attach fees
132 2011-03-26 00:45:15 <slush> [Tycho]: why do you have "compute4cash" in site title?
133 2011-03-26 00:45:36 <slush> are you related to them somehow? ;)
134 2011-03-26 00:46:23 <ne0futur> can anyone here use https://mtgox.com/trade/history with konqueror ?
135 2011-03-26 00:46:25 <ne0futur> not working here
136 2011-03-26 00:46:38 <luke-jr> ne0futur: works for me
137 2011-03-26 00:46:39 <curiositysquared> I think this is a silly question but the difficulty inherantly has ringing doesn't it?
138 2011-03-26 00:46:45 <luke-jr> you need to click "Last 48 Hours" or one of the others
139 2011-03-26 00:46:48 <x420024x> so what the hell do I have to do to get paid?
140 2011-03-26 00:47:01 <luke-jr> curiositysquared: silly or not, it doesn't make sense
141 2011-03-26 00:47:11 <luke-jr> x420024x: just a matter of waiting
142 2011-03-26 00:47:15 <baaaacon> x420024x: wait?
143 2011-03-26 00:47:24 <[Tycho]> slush, i just decided that it's nice word for page title.
144 2011-03-26 00:47:29 <curiositysquared> the new difficulty is lower than it should be and the previous one was higher than it ought to have been because the mystery miner pushed it up.
145 2011-03-26 00:47:30 <x420024x> I've been mining for a 2 days
146 2011-03-26 00:47:39 <luke-jr> x420024x: what video card?
147 2011-03-26 00:47:40 <x420024x> and everything I made today is unconfirmed
148 2011-03-26 00:47:46 <curiositysquared> x420024x: join a pool.
149 2011-03-26 00:47:52 <x420024x> i am
150 2011-03-26 00:48:02 <luke-jr> join slush's pool
151 2011-03-26 00:48:07 <curiositysquared> oh. what's you're hash rate?
152 2011-03-26 00:48:07 <x420024x> the payments are made, but they are grey in my gui
153 2011-03-26 00:48:17 <[Tycho]> Join my pool :)
154 2011-03-26 00:48:29 <x420024x> why does it matter what pool?
155 2011-03-26 00:48:30 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: your pool pays fees?
156 2011-03-26 00:48:36 <x420024x> arent they all the same?
157 2011-03-26 00:48:39 <slush> x420024x: my pool is crunching free transactions again, so it will proces it in some time :)
158 2011-03-26 00:48:40 <luke-jr> x420024x: if the pool doesn't pay fees, it will take a long time
159 2011-03-26 00:48:41 <curiositysquared> has anyone done the math on the necesary hash rate where you win statistically by not being in a pool?
160 2011-03-26 00:48:41 <[Tycho]> No. Why should i ?
161 2011-03-26 00:48:47 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: because of this
162 2011-03-26 00:48:58 <[Tycho]> Because of what exactly ?
163 2011-03-26 00:49:12 <luke-jr> curiositysquared: whatever ;;bc,calc says is < 2 weeks
164 2011-03-26 00:49:24 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: fee-less tx take a long time because of tx spam
165 2011-03-26 00:49:28 <[Tycho]> I'm including all my payout transactions in my pool's blocks.
166 2011-03-26 00:49:32 <curiositysquared> That's not clear.
167 2011-03-26 00:49:38 <x420024x> tx spam???
168 2011-03-26 00:49:41 <x420024x> whats that?
169 2011-03-26 00:49:43 <[Tycho]> So it's usually fast enough.
170 2011-03-26 00:49:50 <x420024x> and why are we getting spam?
171 2011-03-26 00:49:52 <jgarzik> x420024x: people sending 0.01 BTC to themselves, repeatedly
172 2011-03-26 00:50:11 <jgarzik> x420024x: not relevant
173 2011-03-26 00:50:23 <x420024x> the spam or my Q?
174 2011-03-26 00:50:44 <curiositysquared> I thought that the other day, but in the face of an exponentially rising difficulty, you want to minimize the time between you're last payment and the next dificulty jump.
175 2011-03-26 00:50:54 <jgarzik> x420024x: either.  people spam, so we must deal with it.  free transactions == tragedy of the commons.
176 2011-03-26 00:51:19 <jgarzik> x420024x: so most places limit free transactions to a certain small percentage of each block's size limit (1MB)
177 2011-03-26 00:51:25 <[Tycho]> Someone spams the network, may be he wants to force people into paying fees.
178 2011-03-26 00:51:32 <jgarzik> yep
179 2011-03-26 00:51:44 <[Tycho]> But bitcoin transactions should be free as long as possible.
180 2011-03-26 00:51:51 <jgarzik> nope
181 2011-03-26 00:51:56 <curiositysquared> I haven't figured out how to phrase the question correctly yet, but I think if you have a 50% chance of generating a block per day, every time you don't generate a block on the day before the difficulty jumps you just lost the opportunity to participate at the lower difficulty.
182 2011-03-26 00:51:56 <jgarzik> bad incentive
183 2011-03-26 00:51:56 <subpar> heh
184 2011-03-26 00:52:01 <[Tycho]> So you are the evil one ? :)
185 2011-03-26 00:52:14 <jgarzik> free transactions will always be abused, because 'free' is trivial to abuse
186 2011-03-26 00:52:42 <jgarzik> same problem as email spam -- if cost of sending is very low, spammers will spam, because that is the nature of the world.
187 2011-03-26 00:52:45 <luke-jr> if you want to force people into paying fees, you can just refuse to accept fee-less tx
188 2011-03-26 00:52:50 <x420024x> so spam is causing people to pay a tx fee in order to get paid?
189 2011-03-26 00:52:55 <luke-jr> you don't need to waste time spamming
190 2011-03-26 00:53:00 <luke-jr> therefore, tx spam has a different motive
191 2011-03-26 00:53:05 <lfm> curiositysquared: and if you do get payed before a jump you're way ahead
192 2011-03-26 00:53:06 <x420024x> can i set a fee on my account so I get paid?
193 2011-03-26 00:53:17 <luke-jr> jgarzik: speaking of which, there's a n00b in -otc asking to buy spamming service
194 2011-03-26 00:53:20 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, there always will be someone who accepts free ones, so just taking fees won't help.
195 2011-03-26 00:53:26 <jgarzik> x420024x: TX fee is paid by the sender, not the receiver
196 2011-03-26 00:53:32 <luke-jr> x420024x: It should be possible, but the GUI doesn't support it
197 2011-03-26 00:53:36 <curiositysquared> lfm, that's why I keep confusing myself with the math.
198 2011-03-26 00:53:49 <x420024x> does bitcoind support it?
199 2011-03-26 00:53:53 <curiositysquared> That way ahead really isn't so much way ahead.
200 2011-03-26 00:53:54 <jgarzik> yes
201 2011-03-26 00:53:54 <luke-jr> x420024x: no
202 2011-03-26 00:53:59 <x420024x> wtf
203 2011-03-26 00:54:04 <luke-jr> jgarzik: since when?
204 2011-03-26 00:54:09 <x420024x> one person says yes, the other no?
205 2011-03-26 00:54:12 <jgarzik> x420024x: -paytxfee command line argument sets the TX fees you pay
206 2011-03-26 00:54:12 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, what do you mean ? You CAN set a fee in GUI for sending a tx.
207 2011-03-26 00:54:17 <luke-jr> jgarzik: bitcoind allows the recipient to add a fee?
208 2011-03-26 00:54:20 <curiositysquared> if the difficulty increases 10%, you'll still generate a block after the jump, but 10% fewer of them.
209 2011-03-26 00:54:21 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I mean for receiving
210 2011-03-26 00:54:32 <jgarzik> <jgarzik> x420024x: TX fee is paid by the sender, not the receiver
211 2011-03-26 00:54:45 <luke-jr> jgarzik: receiver can add a fee, too
212 2011-03-26 00:54:54 <luke-jr> just not implemented in GUI/JSON-RPC
213 2011-03-26 00:55:02 <x420024x> mine says 0.00 in the GUI
214 2011-03-26 00:55:05 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no, that's impossible
215 2011-03-26 00:55:12 <x420024x> if I set that to 0.01, do I get paid faster?
216 2011-03-26 00:55:17 <jgarzik> x420024x: no
217 2011-03-26 00:55:18 <luke-jr> jgarzik: use <pending-received-coin> to send yourself 99% as change. 1% goes to fee
218 2011-03-26 00:55:28 <jgarzik> x420024x: the sender has to pay the fee
219 2011-03-26 00:55:30 <luke-jr> jgarzik: your fee transaction depends on the pending one
220 2011-03-26 00:56:05 <luke-jr> my skim over the relevant code suggested that would increase its priority
221 2011-03-26 00:56:11 <luke-jr> if not, it should
222 2011-03-26 00:57:41 <x420024x> ok, so nothing i can do to speed this up.
223 2011-03-26 00:57:51 <x420024x> that totally sucks balls
224 2011-03-26 00:58:26 <FellowTraveler> "Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country
225 2011-03-26 00:58:27 <FellowTraveler> the legitimacy of our democratic form of government."
226 2011-03-26 00:58:28 <FellowTraveler> "While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve
227 2011-03-26 00:58:29 <FellowTraveler> present danger to the economic stability of this country."
228 2011-03-26 00:59:25 <x420024x> who said that
229 2011-03-26 00:59:26 <x420024x> ?
230 2011-03-26 00:59:31 <x420024x> the federal reserve?
231 2011-03-26 00:59:32 <subpar> OJ?
232 2011-03-26 00:59:34 <x420024x> :)
233 2011-03-26 01:00:05 <FellowTraveler> http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel11/ce031811.htm
234 2011-03-26 01:00:11 <x420024x> one could argue the same exact quote about inflation being the disruption.
235 2011-03-26 01:01:31 <x420024x> where in bitcoind do i change the tx fee?
236 2011-03-26 01:01:43 <molecular> von Nothaus made coins with $-signs on them, it seems
237 2011-03-26 01:02:22 <curiositysquared> I think you should join a pool if the fees in the pool are less than the expected loss do to a jump in difficulty.
238 2011-03-26 01:02:38 <FellowTraveler> The $ is what they got him for, but the quote doesn't mention the $.
239 2011-03-26 01:03:01 <FellowTraveler> The title says "Defendant Convicted of Minting His Own Currency"
240 2011-03-26 01:03:27 <FellowTraveler> It's clear from her quote that his real crime was being involved in "anti-government activities" by way of "minting his own currency"
241 2011-03-26 01:03:51 <FellowTraveler> But that's okay, since they are determined to meet such "domestic terrorist" threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling.
242 2011-03-26 01:04:19 <FellowTraveler> After all, minting your own currency represents a "clear and present danger to the economic stability" of this country.
243 2011-03-26 01:04:34 <molecular> well, europe is minting it's own currency to compete with the $, so europe should be jailed.
244 2011-03-26 01:04:44 <FellowTraveler> We have the FBI calling the founder of the Liberty Dollar a "domestic terrorist."
245 2011-03-26 01:04:49 <FellowTraveler> The FBI.
246 2011-03-26 01:05:14 <FellowTraveler> Can we only assume they have already infiltrated this channel?
247 2011-03-26 01:05:15 <jgarzik> x420024x: -paytxfee
248 2011-03-26 01:05:19 <jgarzik> x420024x: on the command line
249 2011-03-26 01:05:35 <jgarzik> FellowTraveler: I bet they've infiltrated #bitcoin-discussion, where this is more on-topic :)
250 2011-03-26 01:05:38 <molecular> CIA-96 has been here for a while ;) but FBI-69?
251 2011-03-26 01:05:48 <curiositysquared> Everytime the difficulty jumps you have a time period between you're last block at the old difficulty you're next block in the new difficulty. This is the only period of time that matters compared to being in a pool. .... I can't decide if I'm over thinking this or not.
252 2011-03-26 01:05:53 <curiositysquared> :(
253 2011-03-26 01:05:56 <curiositysquared> Where is slush's pool located?
254 2011-03-26 01:06:02 <slush> London
255 2011-03-26 01:06:17 <x420024x> jgarzik: "error: {"code":-32601,"message":"Method not found"}"
256 2011-03-26 01:06:22 <x420024x> :(
257 2011-03-26 01:06:23 <curiositysquared> I'd guess if they wanted to go after people they'd go after operators.
258 2011-03-26 01:06:25 <curiositysquared> That's good.
259 2011-03-26 01:06:32 <jgarzik> x420024x: it is not an RPC command
260 2011-03-26 01:06:36 <curiositysquared> how many people TOR their miners?
261 2011-03-26 01:06:39 <molecular> we can assume they have infiltrated all channels
262 2011-03-26 01:06:40 <jgarzik> x420024x: it is used on the cmmand line, when you start bitcoind
263 2011-03-26 01:06:44 <FellowTraveler> jgarzik  the people on that channel are only discussing alternate currencies, not actually building them like you terrorists are on this channel.
264 2011-03-26 01:07:11 <[Tycho]> curiositysquared, attacking pools won't slow down mining.
265 2011-03-26 01:07:22 <curiositysquared> no. jailing pool owners will.
266 2011-03-26 01:07:26 <molecular> no
267 2011-03-26 01:07:27 <[Tycho]> No.
268 2011-03-26 01:07:28 <curiositysquared> chilling effect.
269 2011-03-26 01:07:38 <[Tycho]> You don't understand how it works.
270 2011-03-26 01:07:45 <molecular> FUD, there will be FUD-campaign
271 2011-03-26 01:07:54 <FellowTraveler> You can run pools anonymously and untraceably, for a profit, as long as you run an Open Transactions back end.
272 2011-03-26 01:07:56 <molecular> but more they can't really do
273 2011-03-26 01:08:12 <phantomcircuit> FellowTraveler, you realize he was convicted of minting coins, if you read the statute he violated it very clearly only covers coinage
274 2011-03-26 01:08:14 <curiositysquared> they start putting people in jail and pressing charges I'll drop my gigahash/s out of mining.
275 2011-03-26 01:08:17 <slush> I don't think pool operators are doing anything illegal
276 2011-03-26 01:08:29 <FellowTraveler> phantomcircuit they will find a different charge each time they need one.
277 2011-03-26 01:08:33 <curiositysquared> I know it wont stop bitcoins. That's why they're awesome. But a chilling effect would be powerful and real.
278 2011-03-26 01:08:35 <[Tycho]> curiositysquared, why would you stop mining ?
279 2011-03-26 01:08:36 <molecular> well, if you really wanted you could say the bitcoin network or it's miners are minting coins
280 2011-03-26 01:08:44 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ...coinage that was intended to look similar to US coinage, to the point where the US Mint had to issue an advisory saying "this is not real US money"
281 2011-03-26 01:08:44 <slush> BOINC, folding@home, seti@home and so on are perfectly legal, too :)
282 2011-03-26 01:09:05 <FellowTraveler> Yes but unlike any other counterfeit money, it was actually worth MORE than what it copied.
283 2011-03-26 01:09:09 <FellowTraveler> since it was made of real silver.
284 2011-03-26 01:09:09 <molecular> "It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States."
285 2011-03-26 01:09:09 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, actually minting any coinage violates the law, ARCADES BEWARE
286 2011-03-26 01:09:47 <molecular> so it only has to "compete with USD" to be in violation of federal law
287 2011-03-26 01:09:57 <molecular> BTC and EUR clearly compete with USD
288 2011-03-26 01:10:00 <jgarzik> that's a press release summary of the statute
289 2011-03-26 01:10:04 <phantomcircuit> molecular, that's the FBI's obviously biased interpretation of the law
290 2011-03-26 01:10:06 <jgarzik> don't read too far into that
291 2011-03-26 01:10:09 <alias420> oh no btcoin just took a 2 cent dip on usd
292 2011-03-26 01:10:12 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: right
293 2011-03-26 01:10:14 <alias420> the sky is falling!!!
294 2011-03-26 01:10:18 <curiositysquared> because if the FBI wants to deem mining btc something worth their time to fuck with people over, it's not worth any personal risk to me. Even if I know I can mine with near perfect anonymity and safety.
295 2011-03-26 01:10:26 <curiositysquared> I don't like risk. Hence my liking btc.
296 2011-03-26 01:10:34 <molecular> yes, I'm just saying, that's how they think
297 2011-03-26 01:10:39 <FellowTraveler> The founder of e-gold was convicted, now the founder of Liberty dollar was convicted. But though they find a charge every time, they have not found any actual wrongdoing.
298 2011-03-26 01:10:41 <jgarzik> curiositysquared: I'll take your BTC for 50% under market, if you're panic-selling
299 2011-03-26 01:10:43 <molecular> by that logic, we are also terrorists
300 2011-03-26 01:10:50 <FellowTraveler> Yes, you are.
301 2011-03-26 01:10:57 <alias420> haha
302 2011-03-26 01:11:09 <molecular> so I'm either with them or against them... a choice not too hard
303 2011-03-26 01:11:25 <phantomcircuit> http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14279992
304 2011-03-26 01:11:31 <phantomcircuit> you'll notice they only mention the coins
305 2011-03-26 01:11:41 <alias420> US coins
306 2011-03-26 01:11:46 <phantomcircuit> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html
307 2011-03-26 01:11:47 <phantomcircuit> thar
308 2011-03-26 01:11:48 <curiositysquared> panic selling is the opposite of what to do in a panic.
309 2011-03-26 01:11:50 <alias420> no one is making US Coins
310 2011-03-26 01:11:59 <curiositysquared> more like panic encrypt and squirl.
311 2011-03-26 01:12:07 <phantomcircuit> or of original design,
312 2011-03-26 01:12:10 <alias420> NC man convicted of illegally minting US coins
313 2011-03-26 01:12:31 <FellowTraveler> in the old days, the juror's oath was "I swear I will not convict anyone of wrongdoing".  I wonder what moral wrong the jury found in this case, where the "counterfeit" dollars are worth more than the "real" ones?
314 2011-03-26 01:12:34 <alias420> haha yeah I have to get me some of those socks soon
315 2011-03-26 01:12:40 <AAA_awright> He was an "economic terrorist"
316 2011-03-26 01:13:30 <phantomcircuit> GET HIM BOYS
317 2011-03-26 01:13:39 <curiositysquared> is there more than one case here? Or only the guy who minted coins with "USA" and "God in Trust" on them?
318 2011-03-26 01:14:05 <FellowTraveler> exactly.
319 2011-03-26 01:14:31 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, "Trust In God"
320 2011-03-26 01:14:44 <phantomcircuit> http://www.google.com/images?q=liberty+dollar&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=912
321 2011-03-26 01:14:54 <phantomcircuit> but yeah you'll notice the similarity to older US dollar coins
322 2011-03-26 01:15:32 <FellowTraveler> It's actually much more similar than the actual US currency, since it's actually made of silver.
323 2011-03-26 01:15:46 <FellowTraveler> The irony of who is the real counterfeit is striking.
324 2011-03-26 01:15:52 <curiositysquared> reguardless of the technical interpretation of the constitution and laws, law enforcement doesn't give a fuck about the law (I can say from personal experience) They'll fuck with anyone who they don't like the smell of.
325 2011-03-26 01:16:01 <AAA_awright> Glenn Beck -- Who I know owns at least a few Liberty Dollars if he hasn't already gotten rid of them -- covered the Liberty Dollar story this Tuesday, when reporting on a fairly creditable plan by SEIU bosses to get everyone to stop paying their mortgages
326 2011-03-26 01:16:21 <FellowTraveler> Just you guys remember who the domestic terrorists are now:  YOU.
327 2011-03-26 01:16:24 <phantomcircuit> curiositysquared, sure good luck to them with that
328 2011-03-26 01:16:27 <curiositysquared> that glenn character ... he's totally a terrorist.
329 2011-03-26 01:16:40 <AAA_awright> FellowTraveler: That's the idea
330 2011-03-26 01:17:00 <phantomcircuit> AAA_awright, unions propose outright fraud? NEVER!
331 2011-03-26 01:17:01 <phantomcircuit> lulz
332 2011-03-26 01:17:58 <phantomcircuit> http://www.chambersburglibertydollar.com/zm8.jpg
333 2011-03-26 01:17:59 <phantomcircuit> rofl
334 2011-03-26 01:18:08 <phantomcircuit> "excuse me sir i am going to buy bread"
335 2011-03-26 01:18:21 <curiositysquared> are there any other functioning crypto currencies at the moment?
336 2011-03-26 01:18:48 <FellowTraveler> There's Open Transactions, but it's chaumian cash, not cryptocurrency:  https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki
337 2011-03-26 01:19:01 <FellowTraveler> however I see how BTC and OT solve many of each other's problems.
338 2011-03-26 01:19:13 <FellowTraveler> see the FAQ for details
339 2011-03-26 01:19:46 <FellowTraveler> You terrorists.
340 2011-03-26 01:22:42 <molecular> "a Fed Note is just a Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Denomination, or F.R.A.U.D." <- haha (http://www.chambersburglibertydollar.com/)
341 2011-03-26 01:23:14 <theymos> Note: Bitcoin Block Explorer will be down for a few hours sometime tonight. Many of Gribble's commands will therefore be broken.
342 2011-03-26 01:42:08 <comboy> anybody still alive?
343 2011-03-26 01:42:31 <comboy> I just had some coding session
344 2011-03-26 01:42:36 <comboy> http://bitcoinity.org/
345 2011-03-26 01:42:49 <[Tycho]> Hello.
346 2011-03-26 01:42:53 <comboy> if somebody feels like testing very unstable stuff that can go down any moment please do
347 2011-03-26 01:43:01 <comboy> please don't share this outside irc yet
348 2011-03-26 01:43:38 <comboy> it was created after forum thread, this one http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4735.msg69636#msg69636
349 2011-03-26 01:43:42 <phantomcircuit> you know what i hate
350 2011-03-26 01:43:45 <phantomcircuit> the word queue
351 2011-03-26 01:44:07 <[Tycho]> You didn't set a background color.
352 2011-03-26 01:44:17 <[Tycho]> Or "haven't"...
353 2011-03-26 01:44:36 <comboy> don't tell me you have non-white by default
354 2011-03-26 01:44:41 <[Tycho]> I do.
355 2011-03-26 01:44:53 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], you shouldn't do that
356 2011-03-26 01:44:55 <[Tycho]> It's not guaranted to be white.
357 2011-03-26 01:44:56 <phantomcircuit> comboy, cookies
358 2011-03-26 01:44:57 <comboy> I tried once, half of the internet was looking bad ;)
359 2011-03-26 01:45:07 <comboy> phantomcircuit: you don't like cookies?
360 2011-03-26 01:45:10 <[Tycho]> comboy, it's their fault :)
361 2011-03-26 01:45:11 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], yes but most sites assumes
362 2011-03-26 01:45:20 <phantomcircuit> comboy, I FUCKING LOVE COOKIES
363 2011-03-26 01:45:22 <phantomcircuit> NOM NOM NOM
364 2011-03-26 01:45:29 <comboy> good
365 2011-03-26 01:45:51 <comboy> it's quite empty and stuff
366 2011-03-26 01:46:01 <[Tycho]> I ise gray as default, it helps me with reading plaintext stuff.
367 2011-03-26 01:46:20 <comboy> and the feature I think is nice is that you can confirm ownership of forum account
368 2011-03-26 01:46:37 <comboy> so then any kind of comments declarations recommendations have some background
369 2011-03-26 01:46:42 <comboy> other than random nick on random new site
370 2011-03-26 01:46:48 <[Tycho]> And surprisingly it's not "white" by default in IE. It equals to windows background color, which depends on selected theme.
371 2011-03-26 01:47:05 <phantomcircuit> lol there is a dead lock somewhere in my program
372 2011-03-26 01:47:07 <phantomcircuit> :(
373 2011-03-26 01:47:11 <comboy> [Tycho]: I'll set it white :>
374 2011-03-26 01:47:16 <[Tycho]> Ok :)
375 2011-03-26 01:47:28 <x420024x> why would people flood the network with micropayments?  how do they make anything off that?
376 2011-03-26 01:47:37 <x420024x> could the big banks be attacking bitcoin?
377 2011-03-26 01:47:53 <[Tycho]> It could be done easily with scripts.
378 2011-03-26 01:47:54 <comboy> if somebody could test registration with forum account confirmation thot would be great (no email required)
379 2011-03-26 01:48:06 <comboy> and it may slow down at moments
380 2011-03-26 01:48:56 <x420024x> normail e-mail usually includes some type of bait hoping that victum bites it, but what does some gain by spamming the bitcoin network?
381 2011-03-26 01:49:05 <x420024x> how does that make them a profit?
382 2011-03-26 01:49:33 <theymos> Maybe they want to demonstrate that Bitcoin is weak to this kind of attack.
383 2011-03-26 01:49:48 <theymos> (Though they've actually shown that the network handles it pretty well.)
384 2011-03-26 01:50:00 <[Tycho]> That was my first idea.
385 2011-03-26 01:50:12 <[Tycho]> But then i supposed that this is to force fees.
386 2011-03-26 01:50:36 <[Tycho]> x420024x, it's not "spamming", it's flooding
387 2011-03-26 01:50:36 <x420024x> what's the point of forcing fees though?
388 2011-03-26 01:50:42 <phantomcircuit> x420024x, it's people being dicks, which is pretty much SOP
389 2011-03-26 01:50:57 <[Tycho]> x420024x, getting those fees :)
390 2011-03-26 01:51:00 <theymos> It's not very effective for forcing fees. No one will pay fees on small transactions, and large transactions have priority high enough that fees are unnecessary.
391 2011-03-26 01:51:37 <phantomcircuit> actually
392 2011-03-26 01:51:39 <x420024x> so this is just some asshole being stupid....great.
393 2011-03-26 01:51:43 <phantomcircuit> that's not an unreasonable though
394 2011-03-26 01:51:49 <comboy> [Tycho]: bg white, now pretty please with sugar on top, test me signup ;p
395 2011-03-26 01:51:56 <phantomcircuit> miners flood the network could force people making legit transactions to include fees
396 2011-03-26 01:52:09 <jgarzik> The natural end state of free TX area is 100% filled at all time, creating the incentive for all users to pay some sort of fee.  But I think we will sit at the network-agreed minimum for a long time.  And I think that minimum will need to be lowered below 0.01 soonish...
397 2011-03-26 01:52:15 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yep
398 2011-03-26 01:53:00 <x420024x> so their is no reason to flood the network other than to be a dick.
399 2011-03-26 01:53:18 <jgarzik> but I think any free tx area will be full normally, anyway, without miner conspiracy.  due to griefers, or spammers, or testing, or just a lot of people using micropayments w/ bitcoin.
400 2011-03-26 01:53:29 <phantomcircuit> hmm this now appears to be working just fine
401 2011-03-26 01:53:44 <phantomcircuit> lol all i did was throw more re-entrant locks
402 2011-03-26 01:53:55 <phantomcircuit> i literally have no idea why this works
403 2011-03-26 01:53:57 <phantomcircuit> yay?
404 2011-03-26 01:53:58 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: in python?  is GIL still alive in python3?
405 2011-03-26 01:54:04 <phantomcircuit> yes it is
406 2011-03-26 01:54:15 <jgarzik> sad
407 2011-03-26 01:54:21 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, 99% of the work is done in extensions though
408 2011-03-26 01:54:26 <phantomcircuit> threads still make sense
409 2011-03-26 01:54:36 <phantomcircuit> TypeError: unorderable types: int() < bytes()
410 2011-03-26 01:54:37 <phantomcircuit> shit
411 2011-03-26 01:54:47 <phantomcircuit> i keep getting that and have no idea why
412 2011-03-26 01:55:41 <luke-jr> makes sense to me
413 2011-03-26 01:55:50 <theymos> Keeping transactions free for as long as possible is very good for the project. I was thinking that age should be emphasised more in the priority algorithm. Does anyone know how aged the spam transactions usually are?
414 2011-03-26 01:56:17 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, except im not comparing an int to bytes anywhere that i can find
415 2011-03-26 01:56:33 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: usually Python gives a line number
416 2011-03-26 01:58:00 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol yeah it's not helpful
417 2011-03-26 01:58:18 <phantomcircuit> the object is entirely invalidated when the exception is thrown
418 2011-03-26 01:58:20 <SykeP> I don't think age will help. there's more than 12 hours of spam atm.
419 2011-03-26 01:58:23 <phantomcircuit> so i cant tell what's going on
420 2011-03-26 01:59:14 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, http://codepad.org/58Vcjrgs https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/tree/connector
421 2011-03-26 01:59:18 <phantomcircuit> good luck with that
422 2011-03-26 02:00:58 <baaaacon> is way to send lots tx at time?
423 2011-03-26 02:01:00 <luke-jr> your stack is too big :P
424 2011-03-26 02:01:04 <luke-jr> baaaacon: sendmany
425 2011-03-26 02:01:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, what?
426 2011-03-26 02:01:17 <baaaacon> what sendmany?
427 2011-03-26 02:01:19 <phantomcircuit> oh
428 2011-03-26 02:01:20 <phantomcircuit> yeah
429 2011-03-26 02:01:26 <phantomcircuit> it's mostly sqlalchemy
430 2011-03-26 02:05:22 <phantomcircuit> the only thing i'm getting from sqlalchemy is a single list abstraction
431 2011-03-26 02:05:28 <phantomcircuit> this isn't worth it
432 2011-03-26 02:05:30 <jgarzik> theymos: I think 0.3.21 changes will help w/ free txs, letting more legit freebies through
433 2011-03-26 02:06:00 <theymos> What changes? I only know of limitfreerelay.
434 2011-03-26 02:07:06 <jgarzik> theymos: the switch to continuous rate limit of free transactions
435 2011-03-26 02:08:09 <jgarzik> theymos: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5de8b54c5138e47b6df40d31f282fb45243b29bf
436 2011-03-26 02:12:07 <baaaacon> is a install windows of 0.3.21 version?
437 2011-03-26 02:16:01 <theymos> jgarzik: Am I right in thinking that the rate-limiting code will tend to create a "wall" around spammers? That'd be good. When a transaction is rate-limited, does it get added to the memory pool?
438 2011-03-26 02:28:13 <nevezen> is there a changelog between 0.18 and 0.20?
439 2011-03-26 02:28:38 <nevezen> err, 0.3.18 to 0.3.20
440 2011-03-26 02:32:18 <jgarzik> theymos: when a TX is rate-limited, it is rejected from the memory pool
441 2011-03-26 02:32:28 <jgarzik> never added
442 2011-03-26 02:33:08 <jgarzik> theymos: ideally, this should help serve a steady flow of free TX, while shutting down big bursts of low priority TX
443 2011-03-26 02:34:21 <x420024x> is their a way to "ban" or "deny" an bitcoin address locally.  My thought is that if we figure out the address of the person flooding the bitcoin network, we (the community) could collectively ban/deny/ignore them locally.  If enough people did that, wouldn't it make the flood useless?
444 2011-03-26 02:34:45 <jgarzik> x420024x: not really, even one address means TXs leak through
445 2011-03-26 02:34:54 <jgarzik> x420024x: one of the strengths of bitcoin :
446 2011-03-26 02:34:56 <jgarzik> :)
447 2011-03-26 02:35:07 <x420024x> hrm...
448 2011-03-26 02:35:11 <x420024x> that's good i guess
449 2011-03-26 02:35:20 <x420024x> this just sucks
450 2011-03-26 02:35:22 <theymos> jgarzik: I don't think it will have the effect of limiting only spam. Spammers will just send tons of transactions and keep it constantly blocked. If only the nodes first receiving the transactions started blocking free transactions, it would have a really nice effect.
451 2011-03-26 02:35:38 <x420024x> if theres no gain in doing this, then WTF would someone dumb ass do it?
452 2011-03-26 02:35:39 <jgarzik> theymos: it's still prioritized
453 2011-03-26 02:36:01 <jgarzik> theymos: if spammers are getting higher prio than normal users, we need to look at that
454 2011-03-26 02:36:35 <jgarzik> x420024x: why do script kiddies continue to run scripts?
455 2011-03-26 02:36:55 <theymos> I don't see priority in the limiting code you linked.
456 2011-03-26 02:38:15 <jgarzik> theymos: priority is a factor in how TX's exit the cache [into a block]
457 2011-03-26 02:38:18 <x420024x> jgarzik:  cause they don't know how to write the code
458 2011-03-26 02:39:16 <theymos> jgarzik: Right. But if someone continually floods the network with spam transactions, limitfreerelay will be triggered on all free transactions, regardless of priority.
459 2011-03-26 02:40:18 <jgarzik> theymos: limitfreerelay just handles bursts
460 2011-03-26 02:41:59 <jgarzik> legit clients will randomly resend, if they hit a bad period.  but a spammer beaconing tons of TX's, repeatedly, is much more noticable and easier to filter
461 2011-03-26 02:43:48 <theymos> Why won't a spammer sending tons of transactions continuously disable all free transactions? Does limitfreerelay adjust to the observed rate?
462 2011-03-26 02:46:20 <noagendamarket> a p2p blacklist :)
463 2011-03-26 02:46:32 <luke-jr> theymos: I imagine it's per IP/connection
464 2011-03-26 02:47:04 <theymos> I don't think so.
465 2011-03-26 02:48:44 <EPiSKiNG> is there a way to get OpenCL for an nvidia card?
466 2011-03-26 02:49:18 <JFK911> i think so
467 2011-03-26 02:53:36 <EPiSKiNG> because that should increase the MH/s
468 2011-03-26 02:53:49 <EPiSKiNG> by a phenomenal margin, wouldn't you think?
469 2011-03-26 02:54:16 <EPiSKiNG> although i read that ati wins due to the performance in integer math vs floating point in nvidia cards
470 2011-03-26 02:55:24 <[Tycho]> It would decrease MH/s
471 2011-03-26 03:00:56 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: most recent nvidia card support opencl just fine. you are right tho that ati is better for bitcoin due to the integer performance
472 2011-03-26 03:01:19 <EPiSKiNG> what about cpu mining i hear about... what's the most MH/s we've seen?
473 2011-03-26 03:02:29 <[Tycho]> About 13 MH/s for a average quad core intel CPU.
474 2011-03-26 03:03:17 <lfm> I think an amd x6 can beat that but not sure
475 2011-03-26 03:03:50 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: only older ones
476 2011-03-26 03:04:03 <luke-jr> newer Intel CPUs only get ~5 MH/s on average, with cpuminer
477 2011-03-26 03:04:31 <luke-jr> would be nice to see the performance if someone could implement it using AVX
478 2011-03-26 03:04:59 <lfm> luke the new sse2_x64 mode on cpu miner can do 10mh/s on my q6600
479 2011-03-26 03:05:10 <[Tycho]> I haven't tested last CPUs.
480 2011-03-26 03:05:19 <[Tycho]> After core2quad.
481 2011-03-26 03:05:51 <luke-jr> lfm: Q6600 is old
482 2011-03-26 03:06:04 <lfm> ok
483 2011-03-26 03:06:09 <JFK911> ten millihash?
484 2011-03-26 03:06:10 <luke-jr> SSE performs poorly on new stuff
485 2011-03-26 03:06:37 <forrestv> why don't nodes require txns to have some proof-of-work in order to prevent spam?
486 2011-03-26 03:06:51 <JFK911> oversight?
487 2011-03-26 03:07:10 <fabianhjr> night
488 2011-03-26 03:07:28 <lfm> forrestv: I dont think that would be a good idea
489 2011-03-26 03:07:40 <[Tycho]> Calling Q6600 "old" is funny :)
490 2011-03-26 03:09:00 <lfm> [Tycho]: well its like 4 years I think now
491 2011-03-26 03:09:45 <luke-jr> 2 generations at least
492 2011-03-26 03:09:55 <luke-jr> there were the Core i* after it
493 2011-03-26 03:10:00 <luke-jr> now the 2nd Gen Core i*
494 2011-03-26 03:10:31 <lfm> ya the q6600 was the first of intel's quads
495 2011-03-26 03:10:56 <[Tycho]> I would call "old" only something like P3 and older.
496 2011-03-26 03:11:10 <lfm> ok middle aged
497 2011-03-26 03:11:25 <forrestv> lfm, why?
498 2011-03-26 03:11:57 <[Tycho]> And currently i'm using dual P3-500 :)
499 2011-03-26 03:12:39 <lfm> [Tycho]: ooo, that was once a nice machine. it is "old" now tho, as you say
500 2011-03-26 03:13:22 <jgarzik> if it's multi-core, it's a youngster
501 2011-03-26 03:13:58 <[Tycho]> Yes, it was very cool when no other people had SMP :)
502 2011-03-26 03:14:19 <lfm> I am still running an AMD Athlon MP 2600 dual processor, it must be almost 10 years old. I had a dual celeron 500 before that
503 2011-03-26 03:14:45 <[Tycho]> And my NAT/firewall is Pentium 200 :)
504 2011-03-26 03:15:05 <forrestv> -.-
505 2011-03-26 03:15:07 <lfm> [Tycho]: ah, a meuseum piece!
506 2011-03-26 03:15:43 <[Tycho]> Not a museum, doing real task.
507 2011-03-26 03:16:10 <[Tycho]> As for "museum", i have all x86 generations except P4 :)
508 2011-03-26 03:16:54 <[Tycho]> And all my computers are completely fanless. Except the mining rig, which is in another room
509 2011-03-26 03:17:14 <lfm> I have had most of them but the meuseum pieces got trashed here
510 2011-03-26 03:18:35 <JFK911> p4 is one of the best ones imho
511 2011-03-26 03:18:47 <[Tycho]> P4 is the worst, actually.
512 2011-03-26 03:19:04 <lfm> hard to run a p4 without a fan
513 2011-03-26 03:19:22 <[Tycho]> That was one of reasons why i don't have it :)
514 2011-03-26 03:20:30 <JFK911> hyperthreading was really cool
515 2011-03-26 03:20:40 <JFK911> i still use some (northwood style) and the fan rarely comes on
516 2011-03-26 03:20:45 <[Tycho]> And real SMP is better.
517 2011-03-26 03:21:04 <JFK911> yeah? so get exensive ZION p4's
518 2011-03-26 03:21:16 <JFK911> *expensive
519 2011-03-26 03:21:43 <[Tycho]> The really hard to find pieces are soviet computers, most of them were disassembled for gold and silver parts, so very few working ones exist now.
520 2011-03-26 03:22:05 <JFK911> i lived in russia for 3/4 year and couldn't find any such
521 2011-03-26 03:22:09 <JFK911> even a calculator
522 2011-03-26 03:22:19 <JFK911> i got a soviet volt/ohm meter.
523 2011-03-26 03:22:47 <JFK911> new condition, wax seals intact, with manual
524 2011-03-26 03:23:11 <JFK911> came in some military style ammo box real durable thing
525 2011-03-26 03:23:53 <[Tycho]> I have many soviet equipment, but computers are much harder to find. (not including some popular models)
526 2011-03-26 03:24:08 <JFK911> some examples of ussr silicon (even transistors) would have been cool to pick up
527 2011-03-26 03:24:20 <JFK911> well
528 2011-03-26 03:24:24 <JFK911> are you in moscow?
529 2011-03-26 03:24:27 <[Tycho]> Yes.
530 2011-03-26 03:24:30 <JFK911> ok
531 2011-03-26 03:24:40 <JFK911> i went to mitinskii rinok on several weekends
532 2011-03-26 03:25:24 <JFK911> wow, what fun that is
533 2011-03-26 03:26:13 <JFK911> there was another market i went to also, but there were many different kinds of sellers there.  i forgot its name
534 2011-03-26 03:27:08 <JFK911> in arbat i saw someone selling an old german typewriter with cyrillic type
535 2011-03-26 03:27:37 <JFK911> i rarely saw anything interesting in arbat
536 2011-03-26 03:27:52 <[Tycho]> Prices are way too high on arbat :)
537 2011-03-26 03:27:58 <JFK911> hahaha
538 2011-03-26 03:28:06 <[Tycho]> It's for tourists.
539 2011-03-26 03:28:44 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: P3 is *ancient*
540 2011-03-26 03:29:27 <JFK911> p3 had rambus cripple, didnt it
541 2011-03-26 03:29:27 <[Tycho]> Not even close.
542 2011-03-26 03:29:41 <JFK911> i didnt line it until it was pentium-m
543 2011-03-26 03:29:42 <luke-jr> JFK911: my 800 MHz Pentium 3 easily outperformed 2 GHz P4s
544 2011-03-26 03:29:43 <JFK911> *like
545 2011-03-26 03:29:45 <Necr0s> ps2 had rambus.
546 2011-03-26 03:29:54 <luke-jr> that's why Intel scrapped P4 architecture
547 2011-03-26 03:29:58 <luke-jr> and went back to P3
548 2011-03-26 03:30:14 <JFK911> luke-jr: thats likely if the p4 was a celeron
549 2011-03-26 03:30:25 <JFK911> who had a 2ghz p4 anyway?
550 2011-03-26 03:30:39 <luke-jr> &
551 2011-03-26 03:30:58 <lfm> JFK911: I think everyone had a 2 ghz p4
552 2011-03-26 03:31:07 <luke-jr> I skipped it
553 2011-03-26 03:31:13 <luke-jr> I went from P3 to Athlon64
554 2011-03-26 03:31:24 <Necr0s> from Gateway
555 2011-03-26 03:31:27 <JFK911> ya, i was doing athlon because of the whole intel rambus garbage
556 2011-03-26 03:31:34 <JFK911> and when i got sick of the blast furnace athlon
557 2011-03-26 03:31:43 <JFK911> i got northwood 3.0 w/ ht
558 2011-03-26 03:31:54 <luke-jr> P3 -> A64 -> SB
559 2011-03-26 03:32:32 <JFK911> did they fix the sata in that chipset for sandy bridge
560 2011-03-26 03:32:33 <[Tycho]> I wouldn't believe about 800 outperforming a 2000. But Tualatin performed like 1.3x p4
561 2011-03-26 03:32:52 <JFK911> because micro center has the 2600k on sale again
562 2011-03-26 03:33:00 <JFK911> 280
563 2011-03-26 03:33:03 <JFK911> usd$
564 2011-03-26 03:33:07 <luke-jr> JFK911: yeah, but that's only 1 of like 3 problems
565 2011-03-26 03:33:12 <JFK911> oh
566 2011-03-26 03:33:15 <JFK911> rude
567 2011-03-26 03:33:19 <JFK911> looks promising
568 2011-03-26 03:33:27 <JFK911> intels multithreading is cooler now
569 2011-03-26 03:33:38 <luke-jr> they won't fix VT-d
570 2011-03-26 03:33:47 <JFK911> was vt-d supposed to work?
571 2011-03-26 03:33:51 <luke-jr> so I have to wait and replace the board with a different model when Q67 comes out
572 2011-03-26 03:33:52 <luke-jr> yes
573 2011-03-26 03:34:03 <JFK911> what a hassle
574 2011-03-26 03:34:19 <luke-jr> there's a few Q67, but only micro/mini ATX
575 2011-03-26 03:34:22 <lfm> whats vt-d?
576 2011-03-26 03:34:23 <luke-jr> no full ATX
577 2011-03-26 03:34:32 <luke-jr> lfm: allows you to connect hardware direct to VMs
578 2011-03-26 03:34:34 <JFK911> lfm: mmu like thing for i/o
579 2011-03-26 03:34:40 <luke-jr> eg, run proprietary Radeon blobs in a VM
580 2011-03-26 03:34:49 <JFK911> "pci steering" people used to call it
581 2011-03-26 03:34:56 <lfm> cool
582 2011-03-26 03:35:03 <luke-jr> so if the Radeon crashes, it doesn't take down the host OS
583 2011-03-26 03:35:07 <JFK911> some i7-8xx chips have vt-d
584 2011-03-26 03:35:16 <Necr0s> using xen?
585 2011-03-26 03:35:19 <JFK911> they are still pricey
586 2011-03-26 03:35:29 <JFK911> Necr0s: xen may support it, im pretty sure kvm does
587 2011-03-26 03:35:32 <luke-jr> Necr0s: yeah, hopefully KVM too
588 2011-03-26 03:35:41 <luke-jr> JFK911: Xen has working video passthrough
589 2011-03-26 03:35:46 <luke-jr> KVM doesn't yet
590 2011-03-26 03:36:35 <JFK911> do you need the iommu to use it
591 2011-03-26 03:36:41 <luke-jr> &
592 2011-03-26 03:36:44 <x420024x> Xen support DirectIO
593 2011-03-26 03:36:56 <luke-jr> JFK911: without the IOMMU, the host OS needs to handle the hardware
594 2011-03-26 03:36:57 <x420024x> I test this at work with 10GB NIC's all day
595 2011-03-26 03:37:07 <luke-jr> x420024x: NIC != video
596 2011-03-26 03:37:20 <x420024x> The directIO could also work with video though
597 2011-03-26 03:37:34 <JFK911> nic = good i/o problem
598 2011-03-26 03:37:41 <x420024x> It's a directIO to the PCIe bus from the VM.
599 2011-03-26 03:37:47 <Necr0s> Can this DirectIO thing assign other hardware devices too?
600 2011-03-26 03:37:51 <Necr0s> Like SATA controllers?
601 2011-03-26 03:38:00 <Necr0s> Or iommu rather.
602 2011-03-26 03:38:04 <x420024x> I only test PCIe
603 2011-03-26 03:38:08 <luke-jr> Necr0s: to an extent I think
604 2011-03-26 03:38:18 <luke-jr> Necr0s: IIRC, the PCI bus is all-or-nothing, for example
605 2011-03-26 03:38:22 <x420024x> USB and SATA is someone elses job. :)
606 2011-03-26 03:38:26 <lfm> you could put a sata adapter on pcie
607 2011-03-26 03:38:32 <x420024x> yes
608 2011-03-26 03:38:36 <Necr0s> hmmmmmm
609 2011-03-26 03:38:41 <JFK911> i was interested in the iommu for telephony hardware
610 2011-03-26 03:39:10 <x420024x> not sure about the telephony hardware.
611 2011-03-26 03:39:37 <Necr0s> So...could I concievably run Windows, with one video card and the audio hardware assigned to it, and also run linux, with a couple sata controllers and another video card assigned to it, on the same hardware?
612 2011-03-26 03:39:38 <luke-jr> PCI-e should be good& except video
613 2011-03-26 03:39:42 <luke-jr> video has VGABIOS crap
614 2011-03-26 03:39:52 <luke-jr> Necr0s: right
615 2011-03-26 03:40:03 <Necr0s> hm, pretty cool.
616 2011-03-26 03:40:04 <JFK911> video is a more difficult problem than other devices tho
617 2011-03-26 03:40:24 <Necr0s> I assume I could also have a couple sets os USB keyboards/mice, and have one assigned to each, yes?
618 2011-03-26 03:40:32 <x420024x> DirectI/O with Xen allows you to read/write to the device as though your not in a VM, but in fact your are in a VM.  When you pull the identity of a PCIe NIC from the VM, it looks exactly the same as it would in the Host OS.
619 2011-03-26 03:40:55 <Necr0s> I think I will have to try this out.
620 2011-03-26 03:41:03 <Necr0s> I've been needing something just like that.
621 2011-03-26 03:41:06 <x420024x> The VM can't tell the difference.  Unlike with VMware, they emulate their PCIe shit on ESX.
622 2011-03-26 03:41:26 <x420024x> VMware not good with DirectI/O yet, Xen is their.
623 2011-03-26 03:41:48 <JFK911> i thought xen was able to allow some hardware access without the iommu anyway
624 2011-03-26 03:41:51 <Necr0s> Is a 1st-gen i7 a suitable chip to use for that?
625 2011-03-26 03:42:02 <JFK911> Necr0s: the 8xx that have vt-d
626 2011-03-26 03:42:03 <Necr0s> (920)
627 2011-03-26 03:42:07 <JFK911> no 9xx hav it
628 2011-03-26 03:42:11 <Necr0s> wat
629 2011-03-26 03:42:15 <JFK911> see wikipedia's list
630 2011-03-26 03:42:16 <x420024x> Yes
631 2011-03-26 03:42:30 <x420024x> I have an i7 with vt-d
632 2011-03-26 03:42:37 <x420024x> it's awesome.
633 2011-03-26 03:43:04 <x420024x> double check your BIOS, make sure it's enabled.
634 2011-03-26 03:43:44 <Necr0s> The Intel site says it has it.
635 2011-03-26 03:43:47 <x420024x> hell, the i3 and i5 have VT-d too.  Intel (where I work) is all about getting on the VM bandwagon right now.
636 2011-03-26 03:44:02 <luke-jr> x420024x: then get them to fix Cougar Point H67
637 2011-03-26 03:44:12 <luke-jr> instead of changing the stupid feature list after I buy
638 2011-03-26 03:44:12 <x420024x> hehe
639 2011-03-26 03:44:19 <kupo> I was looking at the AMD fusions for a bit
640 2011-03-26 03:44:24 <x420024x> They do a lot of fucked up shit there
641 2011-03-26 03:44:50 <JFK911> yeah why do you have to pay for a ZION to get ECC?
642 2011-03-26 03:44:55 <JFK911> what's the big idea dude?
643 2011-03-26 03:45:13 <x420024x> the fiber to copper adapters they have are flashed to work with any 1/10GB NIC, but the one's they release to market are flashed to only support Intel hardware.  Kinda fucked up if you ask me.
644 2011-03-26 03:45:33 <x420024x> It's how they try and make money.
645 2011-03-26 03:46:16 <x420024x> So just because a big company like Intel says publicly "It's not possible" doesn't mean shit.  They say half the things they do because it makes them more money.
646 2011-03-26 03:46:34 <Necr0s> talking their book
647 2011-03-26 03:46:41 <x420024x> away: dinner time
648 2011-03-26 03:57:33 <luke-jr> lfm: so how do you actually get sse2_x64 mode?
649 2011-03-26 04:02:44 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 14841
650 2011-03-26 04:02:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14841 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 33 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 47 seconds
651 2011-03-26 04:03:00 <luke-jr> (had to install yasm)
652 2011-03-26 04:04:00 <lfm> luke-jr you need yasm
653 2011-03-26 04:05:15 <luke-jr> lfm: I am wondering if I should throw CPU into a pool, or run with my own bitcoind along with my GPU
654 2011-03-26 04:05:33 <luke-jr> does it "combine" like that, or is each to be considered individually?
655 2011-03-26 04:07:02 <lfm> well it gets a bit trcky to figure out if its worth it. you gotta decide how you allocate power consumption of the main system to cpu and gpu for cost effectivness. usually I think it is not worht it tho no matte rhow you divide it up
656 2011-03-26 04:08:28 <lfm> with the standard exception that if you have free power then it is usually worth it
657 2011-03-26 04:10:10 <lfm> as for choosing the host for the miner I generally set up the cpu to use the same server as the gpu on each system
658 2011-03-26 04:11:00 <lfm> I guess some pools are not very welcoming to cpus tho so that might be a problem
659 2011-03-26 04:11:54 <luke-jr> mwahaha
660 2011-03-26 04:11:59 <luke-jr> my i5 beats i7 980x now :P
661 2011-03-26 04:12:06 <luke-jr> maybe
662 2011-03-26 04:12:10 <lfm> wtg
663 2011-03-26 04:12:49 <luke-jr> AVX would probably be even better&
664 2011-03-26 04:15:16 <luke-jr> lfm: is this algo the same as ufasoft's?
665 2011-03-26 04:15:23 <[Tycho]> Pools are welcoming to everyone :)
666 2011-03-26 04:15:28 <lfm> I think so ya
667 2011-03-26 04:15:50 <Necr0s> hmm...Xen Server 4.1, released today...
668 2011-03-26 04:24:51 <luke-jr> apparently AVX yields 3x performance over SSE
669 2011-03-26 04:24:57 <luke-jr> so in theory &
670 2011-03-26 04:25:12 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 43000
671 2011-03-26 04:25:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 43000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 11 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 50 minutes, and 15 seconds
672 2011-03-26 04:40:03 <episking> I wonder if the bitmining I'm doing is even worth the cost in electricity
673 2011-03-26 04:41:27 <[Tycho]> CPU mining ?
674 2011-03-26 04:41:38 <episking> either
675 2011-03-26 04:41:49 <episking> I just ordered a 5870 for mining purposes
676 2011-03-26 04:41:57 <episking> let's say i get 100MH/s
677 2011-03-26 04:42:04 <episking> and it's 200 watts to do it
678 2011-03-26 04:42:05 <[Tycho]> 5870 is great for mining
679 2011-03-26 04:42:13 <[Tycho]> It's 340 MH/s
680 2011-03-26 04:42:25 <episking> and I pay $0.14USD per kwh
681 2011-03-26 04:42:48 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,calc 330000
682 2011-03-26 04:42:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 330000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 22 minutes, and 43 seconds
683 2011-03-26 04:42:53 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 330000
684 2011-03-26 04:42:54 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 330000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4.81195556735 BTC per day and 0.20049814864 BTC per hour.
685 2011-03-26 04:43:09 <episking> yaaaayyyy for irc commands
686 2011-03-26 04:43:16 <episking> i need to not use the web interface...
687 2011-03-26 04:43:31 <[Tycho]> Almost five times more than energy cost
688 2011-03-26 04:43:48 <episking> 0.20049814864 > $0.14USD
689 2011-03-26 04:44:25 <episking> but exchange rate avg today was ~$0.85USD per bitcoin, yes?
690 2011-03-26 04:45:04 <[Tycho]> $0.14 is per 1 kw*h, but your rig is not takin 1 kW
691 2011-03-26 04:45:16 <episking> I see
692 2011-03-26 04:45:25 <episking> it's 200w
693 2011-03-26 04:46:03 <episking> so it costs $0.02 per hour to run 200watts
694 2011-03-26 04:46:05 <[Tycho]> Yes, if your PC would be 24/7 anyway.
695 2011-03-26 04:48:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 200
696 2011-03-26 04:48:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 46 years, 50 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes, and 16 seconds
697 2011-03-26 04:49:00 <luke-jr> lulz
698 2011-03-26 04:49:09 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#ARM
699 2011-03-26 04:51:12 <episking> using your cell phone?
700 2011-03-26 04:51:40 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 75000
701 2011-03-26 04:51:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 75000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 6 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes, and 1 second
702 2011-03-26 04:52:35 <luke-jr> episking: N900 is not a phone
703 2011-03-26 04:53:03 <episking> Mh/w higher is better, right?
704 2011-03-26 04:53:18 <luke-jr> episking: that measures efficiency
705 2011-03-26 04:53:21 <luke-jr> yes
706 2011-03-26 04:54:25 <episking> ;;bc,calc 100
707 2011-03-26 04:54:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 93 years, 49 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 14 minutes, and 32 seconds
708 2011-03-26 04:54:39 <luke-jr> XD
709 2011-03-26 04:54:56 <episking> ;;bc,calc 100000
710 2011-03-26 04:54:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 57 minutes, and 0 seconds
711 2011-03-26 04:55:20 <episking> what happens when one generates a block?
712 2011-03-26 04:55:26 <luke-jr> you get 50 BTC
713 2011-03-26 04:56:24 <[Tycho]> (and some good things for network)
714 2011-03-26 04:56:59 <luke-jr> you can buy a few pizzas for 50 BTC
715 2011-03-26 04:57:25 <luke-jr> heck, you could probably start getting pizza every week off 100 MH/s :P
716 2011-03-26 04:57:30 <luke-jr> except when it slows down
717 2011-03-26 04:59:24 <dermoth> home|Anyone considered they could heat their houses during winter and thus eliminate the energy costs? ;)
718 2011-03-26 04:59:33 <luke-jr> &
719 2011-03-26 04:59:37 <luke-jr> that's half my problem
720 2011-03-26 04:59:42 <luke-jr> too hot
721 2011-03-26 04:59:43 <episking> becasue of all the computing?
722 2011-03-26 04:59:51 <[Tycho]> Someone heats his bathroom floor with GPUs
723 2011-03-26 04:59:59 <luke-jr> I need to start factoring in the cost of air conditioning :/
724 2011-03-26 05:00:01 <episking> take liek 30 heatpipes and run them all over the house
725 2011-03-26 05:00:12 <dermoth> home|use oil
726 2011-03-26 05:00:19 <[Tycho]> Not heatpipes, but water :)
727 2011-03-26 05:00:28 <dermoth> home|http://www.grcooling.com/
728 2011-03-26 05:01:13 <episking> mineral oil ftw
729 2011-03-26 05:01:17 <luke-jr> ..
730 2011-03-26 05:01:24 <luke-jr> the problem is getting RID OF the heat
731 2011-03-26 05:01:44 <dermoth> home|place it in a building in simeria and get paid for the heat
732 2011-03-26 05:01:46 <luke-jr> maybe I should build a mining rig and put it outside
733 2011-03-26 05:01:48 <dermoth> home|siberia
734 2011-03-26 05:03:38 <dermoth> home|even in alaska, you can heat most of the year
735 2011-03-26 05:05:15 <luke-jr> I don't live in Alaska
736 2011-03-26 05:05:17 <[Tycho]> It's not so effective at heating, only ~100%
737 2011-03-26 05:06:09 <dermoth> home|what do you mean? where do you think your electricity goes? all into heat. You just need to distribute it properly, and this is where an oil bath can help
738 2011-03-26 05:06:50 <luke-jr> dermoth|home: I dont want heat
739 2011-03-26 05:07:09 <luke-jr> it's 58 outside, and it's 2 AM
740 2011-03-26 05:07:12 <luke-jr> got plenty of heat
741 2011-03-26 05:07:27 <[Tycho]> dermoth|home, you don't need oil bath for that
742 2011-03-26 05:10:53 <dermoth> home|[Tycho], well, it depends on the size of the rig and building. If you fill your 42u with servers apcked with gpu's, tat's going to generate a lot of heat (you better have a good current source too)... and you paobably want to transfer it to a central heating system
743 2011-03-26 05:11:12 <[Tycho]> By a watercooling.
744 2011-03-26 05:11:59 <dermoth> home|otoh if you just fit 2 GPU's into your computer you can just leave it in the middle of the house... as long as it's cold outside (it's -5 in montreal right now) you'll save on heating costs
745 2011-03-26 05:12:05 <[Tycho]> May be you meant voltage source, not a current source :)
746 2011-03-26 05:12:27 <dermoth> home|by current Ijusy mean electricity...
747 2011-03-26 05:13:32 <luke-jr> never cold here
748 2011-03-26 05:13:39 <dermoth> home|but actually, unless you get something fancy you'll just use the standard 240v you get in houses, of in in an industrial building it's going to be 208v... it's really a current issue
749 2011-03-26 05:13:58 <dermoth> home|more servers == more current
750 2011-03-26 05:14:06 <dermoth> home|i.e. amps
751 2011-03-26 05:15:09 <glassresistor> just switched from the c algorithm to the 4way on a i5 was twice as faster as the c
752 2011-03-26 05:15:21 <EPiSKinG-> would it be a wise investment to buy 100 BTC?
753 2011-03-26 05:15:29 <glassresistor> EPiSKinG-: yeah
754 2011-03-26 05:15:43 <[Tycho]> Half a hour without blocks...
755 2011-03-26 05:15:58 <dermoth> home|Well IMHO it's a bit risky at that time... you could do a whole lot of money, but oyu could also loose it all
756 2011-03-26 05:16:00 <glassresistor> they are low right now, you could sell money when they are high again
757 2011-03-26 05:17:02 <dermoth> home|yeah short team you can make money off small variation, as long as it doesn'T fall completely... long term, only future will tell
758 2011-03-26 05:17:21 <luke-jr> EPiSKinG-: there's always a risk
759 2011-03-26 05:19:27 <glassresistor> dermoth|home: thats the point, but things look up in my opinion, its much stronger than i expected it to be a year ago
760 2011-03-26 05:20:02 <TheKid> ;;bc,gen 900000000
761 2011-03-26 05:20:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 900000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 13123.5151837 BTC per day and 546.813132653 BTC per hour.
762 2011-03-26 05:20:10 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 900000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 13.1235151837 BTC per day and 0.546813132653 BTC per hour.
763 2011-03-26 05:20:10 <TheKid> ;;bc,gen 900000
764 2011-03-26 05:21:33 <dermoth> home|glassresistor, otoh it's a first, there's still not so many users (5k on the internet is a small number) and there is no precedent...
765 2011-03-26 05:22:49 <glassresistor> yeah, i guess im just blinded by the social profits
766 2011-03-26 05:23:07 <glassresistor> like freedom of economy, and buy buy visa
767 2011-03-26 05:23:30 <glassresistor> but yeah afew idiots selling 20% could dump the market
768 2011-03-26 05:24:17 <glassresistor> and if visa offered 4$ a btc then they could own enough quick enough to kill the market
769 2011-03-26 05:24:27 <glassresistor> but i just don't see it happening
770 2011-03-26 05:24:45 <Blitzboom> glassresistor: dont invest what you cant afford to lose
771 2011-03-26 05:25:02 <glassresistor> i've invested 0$s made well ...
772 2011-03-26 05:25:04 <Blitzboom> but 100$ or whatever shouldnt hurt you very much
773 2011-03-26 05:27:17 <da2ce7> hey boys! https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4966.0
774 2011-03-26 05:27:23 <da2ce7> 60 BTC up for grabs.
775 2011-03-26 05:27:49 <dermoth> home|hey out of curiosity is there a way to plug a cpu/gpu miner into bitcoind? I don'T see much info about that...
776 2011-03-26 05:28:11 <glassresistor> dermoth|home: just point them at your localhost
777 2011-03-26 05:28:33 <glassresistor> i've used poclm and minerd like that
778 2011-03-26 05:28:39 <dermoth> home|oh....
779 2011-03-26 05:28:49 <lfm> dermoth|home: sure, that is the default
780 2011-03-26 05:29:02 <dermoth> home|I was looking foe something more... dificult
781 2011-03-26 05:29:25 <lfm> use the user/password from the bitcoin.config file
782 2011-03-26 05:29:28 <glassresistor> haha yeah sometimes people don't put a web api and lo together
783 2011-03-26 05:30:08 <glassresistor> i always save mine locally, unless i'm doing pooled mining
784 2011-03-26 05:30:20 <glassresistor> and then im worried about the uptime of my wallet
785 2011-03-26 05:31:26 <lfm> your wallet need not be up for pooled mining
786 2011-03-26 05:31:33 <glassresistor> if mining were faster using lo might cause bottle neck problems but luckily(or not) getting valid keys isn't that quick
787 2011-03-26 05:31:50 <glassresistor> lfm: to get the rewards
788 2011-03-26 05:32:00 <lfm> exactly
789 2011-03-26 05:32:13 <glassresistor> unless the pool, holds them for you and doesn't blindly send
790 2011-03-26 05:32:20 <glassresistor> which i was never sure of
791 2011-03-26 05:32:22 <lfm> the rewards are sent to the key wheather it is running or not
792 2011-03-26 05:32:39 <lfm> the bitcoin net and block chain hold them
793 2011-03-26 05:32:49 <glassresistor> what? really?
794 2011-03-26 05:32:54 <lfm> really
795 2011-03-26 05:33:08 <glassresistor> but can't i choose an address, after someone logs off
796 2011-03-26 05:33:13 <[Tycho]> ;;bc.stats
797 2011-03-26 05:33:14 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
798 2011-03-26 05:33:17 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
799 2011-03-26 05:33:19 <gribble> Current Blocks: 115101 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 1826 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 49 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78457.15830623
800 2011-03-26 05:33:33 <glassresistor> we go through them quickly so they cant be unique in time, right?
801 2011-03-26 05:33:39 <[Tycho]> 45 minutes :)
802 2011-03-26 05:34:34 <lfm> change em when you change em or not, they still work fine
803 2011-03-26 05:34:54 <glassresistor> but someone else could scoop your address and get those coins?
804 2011-03-26 05:35:23 <lfm> nope, it is public key, you have a private half of the key that only you have
805 2011-03-26 05:35:58 <glassresistor> some times the "magic" of code stupifies me and i do it proffesionally
806 2011-03-26 05:36:45 <lfm> clarkes law, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistingusable from magic"
807 2011-03-26 05:37:13 <glassresistor> lfm: nice reference catch
808 2011-03-26 05:37:45 <lfm> ya he was talking about science fiction but it applies
809 2011-03-26 05:38:30 <glassresistor> thats twice today, i also discovered that people losing coins doesn't hurt the network, up till then i thought 8 decimal places was a architectual requirement
810 2011-03-26 05:38:43 <EPiSKinG-> best miner for windows?
811 2011-03-26 05:38:58 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, poclbm
812 2011-03-26 05:39:00 <glassresistor> lfm: aspects of science fiction and getting more and more true
813 2011-03-26 05:39:03 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: what gpu do you have?
814 2011-03-26 05:39:09 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: linux
815 2011-03-26 05:39:16 <EPiSKiNG> nvidia atm, ati next week
816 2011-03-26 05:40:02 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: I'd say diabol miner or the python miner from m0mchil
817 2011-03-26 05:40:03 <EPiSKiNG> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0 is what i was looking for
818 2011-03-26 05:40:27 <EPiSKiNG> is there much more increase in performance for a linux distro?
819 2011-03-26 05:40:36 <[Tycho]> No.
820 2011-03-26 05:40:45 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: more in reliability Id say
821 2011-03-26 05:41:08 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: yes, for cpu miners because linux has a working priority system
822 2011-03-26 05:41:20 <glassresistor> otherwise bitcoin makes it impossible to do anything
823 2011-03-26 05:41:25 <EPiSKiNG> win7 has been rock solid for me, and cpu miners are very low ROI
824 2011-03-26 05:41:54 <EPiSKiNG> 135 watts for 20MH/s ifff that
825 2011-03-26 05:42:45 <glassresistor> do you plan on using a cpu miner? its basicall pointless
826 2011-03-26 05:42:58 <glassresistor> and the nvidia / ati stack is pretty different
827 2011-03-26 05:43:40 <glassresistor> if you have less than 1000 stream procs and your doing pooled mining youll get something like .2btc at day
828 2011-03-26 05:43:55 <lookout> Is there a page I can read to find out what the miner does? (late to this discussion)
829 2011-03-26 05:44:03 <[Tycho]> No, it's much more than 0.2
830 2011-03-26 05:44:10 <glassresistor> lookout: it makes bitcoins
831 2011-03-26 05:44:12 <EPiSKiNG> i have a 5870 on the way
832 2011-03-26 05:44:19 <EPiSKiNG> and using a gtx260 now
833 2011-03-26 05:44:21 <glassresistor> ah well thats the one to have
834 2011-03-26 05:44:32 <EPiSKiNG> yeah, i did my research
835 2011-03-26 05:44:53 <lookout> glassresistor: Free money?
836 2011-03-26 05:45:05 <[Tycho]> It's not free :)
837 2011-03-26 05:45:17 <lookout> Electricity etc, sure, but within the bitcoin system free?
838 2011-03-26 05:45:31 <glassresistor> my box thats running at 120Mhash/s on mining.bitcoin.cz is getting ~.5-.7 btc a day
839 2011-03-26 05:45:31 <[Tycho]> It's payment for supporting system.
840 2011-03-26 05:45:39 <lfm> lookout:  each hash is a sha256(sha256(80 byte block header))
841 2011-03-26 05:46:04 <glassresistor> lookout: its very computationally expensive especially this late in the "game"
842 2011-03-26 05:46:18 <glassresistor> but its definately not free
843 2011-03-26 05:46:21 <manveru> heh
844 2011-03-26 05:46:38 <[Tycho]> "definately" ?
845 2011-03-26 05:46:40 <lookout> Well I've been running my regular old client for weeks and gotten nothing
846 2011-03-26 05:46:43 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
847 2011-03-26 05:46:44 <gribble> 68978.89245792
848 2011-03-26 05:46:46 <manveru> since i don't have a gpu... i only make like 3000 khash/s
849 2011-03-26 05:46:55 <glassresistor> lookout: you need to join a pool
850 2011-03-26 05:47:09 <[Tycho]> lookout, solo CPU mining with standart client is pointless.
851 2011-03-26 05:47:13 <glassresistor> otherwise its 50btc at a time or none at all, so basically for you none
852 2011-03-26 05:47:42 <lookout> especially since I'm only able to do about 1337 khash/s
853 2011-03-26 05:47:43 <lfm> lookout: so you basiclly need to perform about 68000 * 2^32 "hashes" to find 1 good block on avergae
854 2011-03-26 05:47:48 <glassresistor> it would take your gpu >2months to make block of 50
855 2011-03-26 05:47:57 <manveru> so a pool makes the 50 and splits them up depending on how much work one did?
856 2011-03-26 05:48:05 <glassresistor> manveru: yeah
857 2011-03-26 05:48:20 <lookout> How do we join a pool?
858 2011-03-26 05:48:20 <[Tycho]> Welcome to my pool @ http://deepbit.net :)
859 2011-03-26 05:48:25 <lookout> heh
860 2011-03-26 05:48:32 <glassresistor> requires trusting the pool owner but plenty large ones exist with good reps
861 2011-03-26 05:48:39 <manveru> well, would be nice if the client reflected that :)
862 2011-03-26 05:48:59 <glassresistor> manveru: the client is only a small part of the global economy
863 2011-03-26 05:49:17 <manveru> i noticed...
864 2011-03-26 05:49:21 <glassresistor> and can't be responsible for every aspect of the community
865 2011-03-26 05:49:28 <lookout> All the places I've read about how bitcoin works haven't explained it very well
866 2011-03-26 05:49:28 <manveru> figured i'd be better off just buying directly
867 2011-03-26 05:49:46 <Blitzboom> lookout: http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-decentralized-currency/
868 2011-03-26 05:49:46 <manveru> but it's damn hard finding someone who accepts JPY
869 2011-03-26 05:49:47 <lookout> Doing my best to fake it, lol
870 2011-03-26 05:49:51 <Blitzboom> best overall explanation
871 2011-03-26 05:49:53 <glassresistor> also the client is kindov vague i know of 4 or 5 miners and wallet managers
872 2011-03-26 05:50:03 <Blitzboom> if you mean bitcoin in general
873 2011-03-26 05:50:14 <manveru> glassresistor: well, the official one?
874 2011-03-26 05:50:28 <manveru> from bitcoin.org
875 2011-03-26 05:50:30 <glassresistor> by official you mean first
876 2011-03-26 05:51:05 <manveru> dunno, there don't seem to be any other for archlinux
877 2011-03-26 05:51:20 <EPiSKiNG> [Tycho] what's the difference between proporstional vs pay-per-share??
878 2011-03-26 05:51:35 <glassresistor> and yeah its not the best and many people use a non-local wallet and the poclm miner and/or the minerd
879 2011-03-26 05:51:53 <glassresistor> manveru: bitcoin is archlinuxs repos?  you have to compile many of them
880 2011-03-26 05:51:57 <glassresistor> and poclm is python
881 2011-03-26 05:52:18 <glassresistor> and you need to install pyopencl for it to work along with your cards drivers
882 2011-03-26 05:52:23 <manveru> it's in the arch user repos, not official
883 2011-03-26 05:52:33 <glassresistor> cool, i guess
884 2011-03-26 05:52:39 <glassresistor> not in debian
885 2011-03-26 05:52:41 <manveru> well, as i said, i don't have a 3d card
886 2011-03-26 05:53:09 <glassresistor> but yeah this is a fairly compile your own comminity until packages come out, which will be a while
887 2011-03-26 05:53:11 <manveru> so buying BTC is way cheaper for me
888 2011-03-26 05:53:45 <glassresistor> manveru: well power is cheap, how much is your time worth? and what equipment is already available
889 2011-03-26 05:54:00 <manveru> heh
890 2011-03-26 05:54:17 <glassresistor> manveru: but probably and i've got plenty to sell, join #bitcoin-otc for trading
891 2011-03-26 05:54:28 <manveru> you take JPY?
892 2011-03-26 05:54:38 <glassresistor> manveru: what is that?
893 2011-03-26 05:54:44 <manveru> japanese yen
894 2011-03-26 05:55:01 <glassresistor> no, sorry wouldn't know what to do with it
895 2011-03-26 05:55:20 <manveru> and my equipment is a notebook... hence no powerful gpu or way to upgrade with one
896 2011-03-26 05:55:40 <glassresistor> manveru: yeah i'd just do day trading if i were you
897 2011-03-26 05:56:03 <glassresistor> but if jpy is hard to exchange into liberty dollars then mtgox will not work
898 2011-03-26 05:56:07 <glassresistor> can you use paypal?
899 2011-03-26 05:56:12 <manveru> yeah
900 2011-03-26 05:56:20 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, with proportional you get fixed payment per every single small piece of work, submitted by you. With proportional you get your part of total work when the block is found.
901 2011-03-26 05:56:28 <glassresistor> then you can use bitcoinmarket
902 2011-03-26 05:56:30 <glassresistor> .org
903 2011-03-26 05:56:31 <manveru> tried coinpal yesterday, but wasn't working
904 2011-03-26 05:56:43 <manveru> works now, it seems
905 2011-03-26 05:57:09 <lfm> manveru: if all you got is that laptop you're best way to get bitcoin is to buy them on the market
906 2011-03-26 05:57:40 <manveru> glassresistor: that looks like a parking site
907 2011-03-26 05:57:46 <glassresistor> manveru: you should join bitcoin-otc someone might by jpy off you
908 2011-03-26 05:58:08 <lookout> bitcoinmarket.org is parked :|
909 2011-03-26 05:58:14 <glassresistor> oops i meant .com
910 2011-03-26 05:58:30 <glassresistor> my bad
911 2011-03-26 05:58:31 <manveru> i asked a few times before, but there don't seem to be many people in japan :)
912 2011-03-26 05:58:33 <lookout> wooo https only with an invalid cert
913 2011-03-26 05:58:34 <lookout> epic
914 2011-03-26 05:58:37 <[Tycho]> There is btcex.com for JPY, but noone trades JPY there.
915 2011-03-26 05:58:39 <EPiSKiNG> [Tycho]>: what's the difference??  What should I choose if i have a 5870 running 12 hrs a day?
916 2011-03-26 05:58:43 <lookout> oh nvm
917 2011-03-26 05:59:18 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, on long term Proportional will give you ~7% more.
918 2011-03-26 05:59:46 <glassresistor> does anyone know what mining.bitcoin.cz is using?
919 2011-03-26 05:59:49 <[Tycho]> Why only 12 hours ?
920 2011-03-26 05:59:52 <glassresistor> never thought to ask
921 2011-03-26 06:00:04 <[Tycho]> glassresistor, what do you mean ?
922 2011-03-26 06:00:09 <glassresistor> EPiSKiNG: probably windows downtime
923 2011-03-26 06:00:15 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: start running it 24/7
924 2011-03-26 06:00:18 <EPiSKiNG> cause i actually play games once in a while
925 2011-03-26 06:00:28 <EPiSKiNG> and watch movies, and they skip when i use guiminer
926 2011-03-26 06:00:35 <glassresistor> what metric they use for dividing block
927 2011-03-26 06:00:47 <[Tycho]> Playing games for 12 hours in a row is bad for your health :)
928 2011-03-26 06:00:57 <[Tycho]> glassresistor, score-based sharing.
929 2011-03-26 06:01:23 <glassresistor> yeah thats what i meant, in linux there are obviously limits but i can tear down the miners and play starcraft or what h264
930 2011-03-26 06:01:27 <glassresistor> watch*
931 2011-03-26 06:01:37 <[Tycho]> EPiSKiNG, with poclbm miner you can still watch movies on windows. Mining will be slower, but still going.
932 2011-03-26 06:01:39 <glassresistor> hows that work?
933 2011-03-26 06:01:42 <martok604> So curious: Does a cminer that finds a block prefer its own transactions? Could be a way around fees if so.
934 2011-03-26 06:02:06 <[Tycho]> martok604, yes, My pool does this :)
935 2011-03-26 06:02:28 <martok604> Tycho: Did you have to modify bitcoind?
936 2011-03-26 06:02:31 <manveru> glassresistor: process priorities?
937 2011-03-26 06:02:43 <[Tycho]> martok604, yes, of course.
938 2011-03-26 06:02:54 <manveru> here bitcoin is at nice level 20 or so, so everything else has priority
939 2011-03-26 06:03:02 <martok604> Tycho Ah ok so not something thery're gonna do by defaul then.
940 2011-03-26 06:03:04 <lookout> bitcoin on windows would wipe out my system usability if I had a single core
941 2011-03-26 06:03:07 <martok604> oy default
942 2011-03-26 06:03:43 <lookout> dualcore and it's fine cause bitcoin doesn't multithread its search for hashes
943 2011-03-26 06:03:51 <Mango-chan> http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/video/nvidia-responds-complaints-newly-released-gtx-590-frying/
944 2011-03-26 06:03:54 <Mango-chan> LOL
945 2011-03-26 06:03:58 <glassresistor> lookout: yeah it does
946 2011-03-26 06:04:02 <[Tycho]> martok604, why would someone do that by default ? Only a few users here can generate blocks fast enough.
947 2011-03-26 06:04:08 <lookout> Not on my system it doesn't, glassresistor
948 2011-03-26 06:04:20 <glassresistor> cause you set the proc limit to 1
949 2011-03-26 06:04:29 <lookout> oh, maybe so
950 2011-03-26 06:04:31 <glassresistor> yeah
951 2011-03-26 06:04:41 <lookout> ahh yeh I did
952 2011-03-26 06:04:49 <martok604> Tycho Why not? I have transactions pending at 0 confirms for a half day. If I find a block, I should prefer my own TXs in that block.
953 2011-03-26 06:04:51 <glassresistor> it would be dumb otherwise, the process is completely parallel