1 2011-04-01 00:02:43 <jgarzik> it's not luck, just attention to detail :)
  2 2011-04-01 00:03:01 <jgarzik> requires a person willing to skim a chipset doc page by page
  3 2011-04-01 00:03:53 <ArtForz> aka good old microoptimization
  4 2011-04-01 00:05:00 <ArtForz> which on todays archs usually boils down to "throw shit at the wall, measure execution time"
  5 2011-04-01 00:06:16 <ArtForz> well, actually ATIs arch seems a lot easier to mircooptimize than modern CPUs
  6 2011-04-01 00:07:13 <ArtForz> no stuff like complex branch predictors or weird cache interactions to get in the way
  7 2011-04-01 00:08:46 <[Tycho]> :)
  8 2011-04-01 00:08:59 <[Tycho]> modern CPUs are scary
  9 2011-04-01 00:09:04 <ArtForz> yep
 10 2011-04-01 00:09:31 <ArtForz> only really tricky part on ATI is understanding the rules for data paths to the ALUs
 11 2011-04-01 00:10:02 <[Tycho]> When i look at ancient archs, i can clearly see what will happen with certain ASM programs. Or with simple microcontrollers like Z8. But with those CPUs it's magic.
 12 2011-04-01 00:10:08 <ArtForz> yep
 13 2011-04-01 00:11:03 <[Tycho]> But EPIC WLIV looks funny to me. I would like to try programming for e2k arch or at least Itanium.
 14 2011-04-01 00:11:52 <ArtForz> Wery long Instruction Vord?
 15 2011-04-01 00:11:56 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 16 2011-04-01 00:12:15 <[Tycho]> Well. almost
 17 2011-04-01 00:12:20 <[Tycho]> A typo :)
 18 2011-04-01 00:13:03 <ArtForz> yeah, one nice part about VLIWs, it's still decently easy to beat a compiler
 19 2011-04-01 00:17:36 <jgarzik> with modern CPUs' register renaming, registers aren't even registers anymore.
 20 2011-04-01 00:34:56 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rf34720b139b5 spesmilo/core_interface.py: Bugfix: need to make sure we round to handle float precision garbage in RPCv0 http://tinyurl.com/4ba3j67
 21 2011-04-01 00:38:55 <gjs278> [Tycho] did you do something to get rid of those messages in poclbm where it would say the worker is idle? I haven't gotten one since you had the downtime a bit ago.
 22 2011-04-01 00:42:44 <[Tycho]> gjs278. what messages ?
 23 2011-04-01 00:43:23 <gjs278> poclbm would constantly staying "Worker is idle, waiting" or something to that effect
 24 2011-04-01 00:43:29 <gjs278> like the longpolling had gaps or something
 25 2011-04-01 00:45:14 <gjs278> "warning: job finished, miner is idle"
 26 2011-04-01 00:45:15 <gjs278> that
 27 2011-04-01 00:46:04 <[Tycho]> Never saw it :)
 28 2011-04-01 00:46:21 <[Tycho]> When did you get it for the first time ?
 29 2011-04-01 00:46:34 <gjs278> basically from the day I started until when you did whatever
 30 2011-04-01 00:46:47 <gjs278> it would happen every 5 or so accepts
 31 2011-04-01 01:14:50 <Stellar> there is spam in the forum
 32 2011-04-01 01:15:01 <Stellar> check     xuyu8188
 33 2011-04-01 01:18:14 <doublec> they could at least accept btc for the spam they're pushing
 34 2011-04-01 01:19:15 <noagendamarket> lol
 35 2011-04-01 01:51:09 <jasonphd> jgarzik: to check a result, you double sha256 hash it... in your example it looks like you first trim the result to the first 160 characters, then do something i can't grasp, then you take that and double sha 256 it.... can you explain that middle step? the "bufreverse"?
 36 2011-04-01 01:53:43 <Sundial> Hello everyone. Two weeks into bitcoin research. I desire to add a single click button on website for folks to donate using bitcoins. Any links to a "how-to"?
 37 2011-04-01 01:54:36 <noagendamarket> youtipit.org
 38 2011-04-01 01:55:01 <Sundial> Thanks no agenda...
 39 2011-04-01 01:58:01 <Sundial> Not quite what I had in mind. No need for a third party. Already have central banks for that. Thanks again.
 40 2011-04-01 02:00:03 <da2ce7> ;;seen tcatm
 41 2011-04-01 02:00:04 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <tcatm> Oh, I see. No idea why gavin didn't remove the label. Maybe it's really for compatibility.
 42 2011-04-01 03:57:12 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 43 2011-04-01 03:57:12 <luke-jr> ;;later tell Sundial https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme
 44 2011-04-01 04:07:49 <da2ce7> ;;seen xelister
 45 2011-04-01 04:07:49 <gribble> xelister was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 hours, 39 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <xelister> it is in my tz <_<
 46 2011-04-01 04:14:56 <CIA-96> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r9b10ef284c0e spesmilo/cashier.py: Bugfix: Don't remember row numbers when there's a possibility of them changing http://tinyurl.com/3ttpdts
 47 2011-04-01 04:18:32 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 48 2011-04-01 04:18:32 <jgarzik> ;;later tell Sundial You can ignore the 'tonal' related stuff on that wiki page
 49 2011-04-01 04:19:52 <gjs278> damn, I just crashed trying to open mplayer while mining :(
 50 2011-04-01 04:24:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: there isn't any Tonal related stuff, except perhaps examples
 51 2011-04-01 04:24:39 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
 52 2011-04-01 04:24:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116087 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 840 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78746.29654755
 53 2011-04-01 04:24:50 <midnightmagic> geh. brutal.
 54 2011-04-01 04:24:58 <midnightmagic> up by 10k again huh
 55 2011-04-01 04:25:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 78750, is 2 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes, and 14 seconds
 56 2011-04-01 04:25:13 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 78750
 57 2011-04-01 04:25:17 <luke-jr> :/
 58 2011-04-01 04:38:54 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, why complicate the uri scheme with exponents and hex?
 59 2011-04-01 04:50:49 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: just ignore the hex/exponents. js-remote doesn't parse them either :)
 60 2011-04-01 04:52:03 <phantomcircuit> heh
 61 2011-04-01 05:29:36 <_flow_> hi, i am looking for a tar.gz with the sources for 0.30.20.2 to build bitcoin from sources under linux
 62 2011-04-01 05:30:55 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: the releases with a fourth number arent new source builds
 63 2011-04-01 05:31:03 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: they're usually only windows binary rereleases
 64 2011-04-01 05:31:14 <Diablo-D3> so just use the normal 0.30.20 source
 65 2011-04-01 05:32:25 <_flow_> Diablo-D3: from here http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/ ?
 66 2011-04-01 05:32:42 <Diablo-D3> probably, I cant open a browser atm
 67 2011-04-01 05:33:21 <midnightmagic> _flow_ sourceforge is the official release thingie, but github is bleeding-edge. (seriously.. bleeding. in-progress merging and stuff, far as I can tell.)
 68 2011-04-01 05:33:47 <Diablo-D3> gavin's github is still his private repo
 69 2011-04-01 05:33:48 <_flow_> i know, but i try to compose a gentoo ebuild with the newest releases of bitcoin
 70 2011-04-01 05:34:01 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: get it off bitcoin then
 71 2011-04-01 05:34:02 <_flow_> so what i need is ideally a tar.gz
 72 2011-04-01 05:34:09 <Diablo-D3> and make sure you use db4.7
 73 2011-04-01 05:34:17 <Diablo-D3> not 4.6 not 4.8 but only 4.7
 74 2011-04-01 05:34:36 <doublec> _flow_: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.20/bitcoin-0.3.20.2-linux.tar.gz/download
 75 2011-04-01 05:35:15 <jgarzik> http://skynet.kernel.org/ -- kernel.org's redundant infrastructure is now airborne
 76 2011-04-01 05:35:31 <_flow_> why are the release numbers sometimes 0.3.20.2 and 0.3.20.02? i know that its a minor thing, but it's sometimes in the way
 77 2011-04-01 05:36:19 <_flow_> Diablo-D3: seems like the old working ebuild is using db4.8: https://github.com/mizerydearia/bitcoin_gentoo_ebuild/blob/master/net-p2p/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19.ebuild
 78 2011-04-01 05:36:33 <Diablo-D3> then its wrong
 79 2011-04-01 05:36:38 <Diablo-D3> it needs to be only 4.7
 80 2011-04-01 05:36:43 <doublec> what's wrong with db 4.8?
 81 2011-04-01 05:36:55 <Diablo-D3> doublec: it automatically upgrades files
 82 2011-04-01 05:36:58 <Diablo-D3> and they cant be read with 4.7
 83 2011-04-01 05:37:14 <doublec> what's the issue with that?
 84 2011-04-01 05:37:18 <_flow_> do you have a source that i can name in my ebuild commit about the db4.7 problem
 85 2011-04-01 05:37:29 <Diablo-D3> doublec: all the official builds use 4.7
 86 2011-04-01 05:37:35 <doublec> ah, ok
 87 2011-04-01 05:37:41 <Diablo-D3> _flow_: either satoshi or the official bdb guys
 88 2011-04-01 05:38:02 <doublec> _flow_: pretty sure the readme in the tar.gz says to use 4.7
 89 2011-04-01 05:38:13 <_flow_> thanks, will have a look
 90 2011-04-01 05:38:49 <doublec> _flow_: build-unix.txt says it
 91 2011-04-01 05:39:00 <doublec> _flow_: "You need Berkeley DB 4.7.  Don't use 4.8"
 92 2011-04-01 05:42:46 <grbgout> _flow_: as a fellow gentooer, kudos on taking it upon yourself to make an ebuild (or update the existing one).
 93 2011-04-01 05:43:20 <grbgout> How dated are the X line of Radeon cards?
 94 2011-04-01 05:44:03 <_flow_> doublec: grbgout: thanks, but the main work is done on github, i am just trying to update the init.d script and to the new bitcoin version
 95 2011-04-01 05:44:29 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: very
 96 2011-04-01 05:44:37 <Diablo-D3> btw, X is literally just 10
 97 2011-04-01 05:45:28 <Diablo-D3> so, 7000, 8500, 9600, x100 (=10100), x1000 (=11000), HD2000, (=12000), 3000(=13000), 4000, 5000, 6000
 98 2011-04-01 05:45:30 <grbgout> So it's unlikely they would have any OpenCL support?  I'm looking on wikipedia at the moment, but nothing is jumping out at me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#Processor_generations )
 99 2011-04-01 05:45:36 <grbgout> Yeah, I got that.
100 2011-04-01 05:45:41 <Diablo-D3> you need 4000 and up.
101 2011-04-01 05:46:04 <grbgout> alright
102 2011-04-01 05:59:54 <grbgout> Are any of you aware of decent GPU power comparison guides/lists?  I looked on google the other day, and found a somewhat dated guide; I think it stopped with the 4k line of Radeons.
103 2011-04-01 06:00:31 <gjs278> lookup mining hardware comparison on google
104 2011-04-01 06:00:38 <grbgout> gjs278: will do, thanks
105 2011-04-01 06:02:11 <grbgout> gjs278: I suppose you were wanting me to find the wiki page, correct?
106 2011-04-01 06:02:16 <gjs278> yes
107 2011-04-01 06:02:31 <grbgout> why not just say that, then?  "There's one on the wiki already"
108 2011-04-01 06:02:47 <jgarzik> I never had any problem with any version of db4.  I successfully used 4.7, 4.8 and (now, with Fedora 14) 5.0 with bitcoin.  Zero problems.
109 2011-04-01 06:02:58 <jgarzik> all Linux, all custom builds.
110 2011-04-01 06:03:08 <grbgout> I was asking about a guide, thinking along the lines of tom's hardware, because I was interested in the techniques they used to obtain the data.
111 2011-04-01 06:04:01 <doublec> jgarzik: I think Diablo-D3 was concerned that someone using an ebuild bult with db 4.8 could not then use an official build using 4.7
112 2011-04-01 06:04:26 <doublec> (without deleting the db log files)
113 2011-04-01 06:08:10 <gjs278> grbgout I figured that was the fastest way for us both to find it
114 2011-04-01 06:08:36 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: its not a problem with compiling it
115 2011-04-01 06:08:43 <Diablo-D3> its that your files are worthless shit and unportable.
116 2011-04-01 06:08:46 <grbgout> gjs278: well, the wiki page is literally Mining_hardware_comparison , seems you already knew it ;)
117 2011-04-01 06:08:58 <grbgout> Admit it, it was a ruse to waste precious milliseconds!
118 2011-04-01 06:08:59 <Diablo-D3> you cant load a >4.7 file in 4.7
119 2011-04-01 06:09:19 <gjs278> I googled it probably 30 times in the last week
120 2011-04-01 06:09:45 <grbgout> I've seen it already as well.  Pity my brain didn't recall.
121 2011-04-01 06:09:53 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: also, you're a freedom hating commie if you use 5.x
122 2011-04-01 06:10:00 <grbgout> I wonder what tools were used to collect the data.
123 2011-04-01 06:10:21 <grbgout> I've been meaning to go through this, http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/power-management-guide.xml , and setup the powertop tool
124 2011-04-01 06:10:33 <grbgout> I think powertop is mentioned in there...
125 2011-04-01 06:10:42 <grbgout> http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/
126 2011-04-01 06:11:54 <gjs278> http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/2663/screenshotml.png
127 2011-04-01 06:12:27 <grbgout> "aimbot" lol
128 2011-04-01 06:12:37 <gjs278> it's an aol instant messenger bot
129 2011-04-01 06:12:46 <grbgout> yeah, yeah ;)
130 2011-04-01 06:27:44 <Pander> does anyone have a rig that boots from USB memory and loads all partitions in RAM disk?
131 2011-04-01 06:28:10 <gjs278> that would be so slow
132 2011-04-01 06:28:13 <gjs278> the usb memory part
133 2011-04-01 06:28:29 <grbgout> Pander: no, but I was planning on trying to setup something like that using Tinycorelinux.com
134 2011-04-01 06:28:41 <gjs278> you can boot from a gparted livecd into ram
135 2011-04-01 06:28:43 <grbgout> Pander: ideally their microcore variant
136 2011-04-01 06:28:59 <gjs278> you can also just setup a netboot
137 2011-04-01 06:29:56 <comboy> Pander: I have
138 2011-04-01 06:30:19 <comboy> I hope to prepare it in some nicer form and publish just that the days are so short..
139 2011-04-01 06:52:41 <mizerydearia> WOOT OFF!  http://woot.com/
140 2011-04-01 06:54:44 <mizerydearia> _flow_, You're welcome to fix the ebuild @ https://github.com/mizerydearia/bitcoin_gentoo_ebuild/blob/master/net-p2p/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19.ebuild
141 2011-04-01 06:55:12 <_flow_> mizerydearia: i allready added a new ebuild
142 2011-04-01 06:56:21 <mizerydearia> yay
143 2011-04-01 06:58:00 <_flow_> what does the community think about expanding the wiki with an page on how to intall bitcoin on the different linux distributions?
144 2011-04-01 06:59:17 <xelister> She take my money, well I'm in need
145 2011-04-01 06:59:19 <xelister> Yeah she's a triflin' friend indeed
146 2011-04-01 06:59:20 <xelister> Oh she's a gold digger way over time
147 2011-04-01 06:59:22 <xelister> That digs on me
148 2011-04-01 07:00:06 <xelister> 2 time in 3 days with single 5970. Problem? :D
149 2011-04-01 07:00:32 <WakiMiko_> give me your coins im poor
150 2011-04-01 07:00:37 <xelister> >_>
151 2011-04-01 07:00:58 <xelister> you should be probably addressing ArtForz bitcoin multimilionare
152 2011-04-01 07:01:18 <WakiMiko_> ArtForz: ^
153 2011-04-01 07:02:06 <xelister> solo mining has it's advantages
154 2011-04-01 07:02:11 <WakiMiko_> 15kEJT4YWzDGTEdHoVd6qnRa5VjaPiTNPE i will be waiting
155 2011-04-01 07:02:16 <xelister> nothing like making up and reading miner report with block =)
156 2011-04-01 07:02:27 <xelister> uhh. Waking. Not making up lol
157 2011-04-01 07:02:33 <xelister> nothing like waking up and reading miner report with block =)
158 2011-04-01 07:02:52 <WakiMiko_> i will never know that feel ;_;
159 2011-04-01 07:02:58 <Pander> booting into RAM doesn't make it slow from which it is booting? so cdrom of urb is all the same. usb I have on the montherboard, cdrom not
160 2011-04-01 07:05:40 <Pander> comboy: you have some pointers to get started? I'm planning to start out with a HD attached to set everythig up and later migrate that to usb.
161 2011-04-01 07:05:58 <gjs278> Pander it's slow because it has to read the image off of a usb interface, a disk would be much faster
162 2011-04-01 07:06:09 <gjs278> that's it though, once you get past startup it wont matter
163 2011-04-01 07:06:20 <gjs278> I had a 10gb image though so I would hate to wait for usb
164 2011-04-01 07:07:45 <Pander> would only be slow to start up when later all is in ramfs, not?
165 2011-04-01 07:08:05 <Pander> I don't plan on rebooting a lot
166 2011-04-01 07:08:07 <gjs278> only startup
167 2011-04-01 07:10:57 <gjs278> http://www.stlinux.com/u-boot/mkimage/ramdisk-images
168 2011-04-01 07:11:17 <BurtyB> looks like bitcoinpool is down again :/
169 2011-04-01 07:11:26 <gjs278> that's if you want to use http://www.stlinux.com/u-boot as your manager
170 2011-04-01 07:17:42 <grbgout> BurtyB: >_<
171 2011-04-01 07:24:49 <comboy> Pander: it'actually fairly easy, just get ubuntu livedvd and boot it with persistence ,I have some openvpn for it and all desktopish stuff removed just X running to be able to access ati drivers
172 2011-04-01 07:27:37 <xelister> WakiMiko_: how you mine
173 2011-04-01 07:28:12 <WakiMiko_> i dont
174 2011-04-01 07:28:13 <WakiMiko_> my gpu sucks
175 2011-04-01 07:28:21 <WakiMiko_> (8800gts)
176 2011-04-01 07:28:23 <xelister> WakiMiko_: but a better one? =)
177 2011-04-01 07:28:41 <WakiMiko_> but im pooor
178 2011-04-01 07:34:07 <xelister> dont have 150$ ?
179 2011-04-01 07:36:30 <WakiMiko_> what gpu can i get for that?
180 2011-04-01 07:40:19 <grbgout> WakiMiko_: you can get a relatively decent mining GPU for not too much money.  Obviously it depends on how much you are willing to part with, but a GPU with 400 SP can be had for ~$72.99
181 2011-04-01 07:40:50 <WakiMiko_> SP?
182 2011-04-01 07:41:03 <grbgout> That will get your roughly 78.25 Mhash/s
183 2011-04-01 07:41:18 <grbgout> Streaming Proccesors
184 2011-04-01 07:41:24 <WakiMiko_> i see
185 2011-04-01 07:41:35 <grbgout> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
186 2011-04-01 07:41:56 <grbgout> take a look at that, then start looking though pricewatch.com, ebay.com, newegg.com, etc. to see what you can find in your price range.
187 2011-04-01 07:42:44 <slush> gasteve: here
188 2011-04-01 07:43:18 <grbgout> Ideally you'll want a card that has a good balance between price-per-Mhash as well as Mhash-per-Watt
189 2011-04-01 07:51:15 <mizerydearia> If anyone uses gentoo, feel free to join #bitcoin-gentoo
190 2011-04-01 07:54:56 <mizerydearia> and then feel free to part again after "wow"ing
191 2011-04-01 07:55:25 <dirtyfilthy> the secret to gentoo is cutting the springs and putting a cardboard spoiler on your case
192 2011-04-01 07:55:40 <mizerydearia> I'm not sure what that means
193 2011-04-01 07:55:56 <sipa> sorry, still compiling
194 2011-04-01 07:56:01 <dirtyfilthy> haha
195 2011-04-01 07:56:31 <sipa> (j/k by the way, i've been a happy gentoo user for some years)
196 2011-04-01 07:56:36 <mizerydearia> I'll write an ebuild for it
197 2011-04-01 07:56:48 <dirtyfilthy> mizerydearia: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ricer
198 2011-04-01 07:58:12 <grbgout> mizerydearia: _flow_ was just in here talking about fixing the existing ebuild.
199 2011-04-01 07:58:24 <grbgout> mizerydearia: what do you mean "wow"ing?
200 2011-04-01 07:58:26 <mizerydearia> grbgout, yeah, he's in the chan also and pmed me
201 2011-04-01 07:58:34 <mizerydearia> grbgout, MT should know ^_^
202 2011-04-01 07:58:58 <mizerydearia> I imagine about how tiny the chan is or something
203 2011-04-01 07:59:12 <bonsaikitten> BurtyB: did it hurt? ;)
204 2011-04-01 07:59:57 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r37e9d3aa4e72 intersango/cron/bankd/ (import_csv.php parse_deposits.php): Importer + parser of bank statements in CSV format. http://tinyurl.com/3bx92q9
205 2011-04-01 08:00:00 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r4cec5181ca2a intersango/DATABASE: regenerated database for new bank_statement table. http://tinyurl.com/3jmoqr3
206 2011-04-01 08:02:33 <BurtyB> bonsaikitten no a quick reinstall was all that was needed, no complicated touch && cut required
207 2011-04-01 08:09:53 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rb600d0a4eaf7 intersango/DATABASE: Regenerated DATABASE for new bank_statement table. http://tinyurl.com/3kgw43e
208 2011-04-01 08:09:54 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rf8d2207019c3 intersango/DATABASE: Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:intersango/master http://tinyurl.com/3j7hzsw
209 2011-04-01 08:33:43 <genjix> MacRohard: hey
210 2011-04-01 08:33:50 <genjix> check PM
211 2011-04-01 08:34:53 <WakiMiko_> http://www.debian.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/ http://www.archlinux.org/ he :D
212 2011-04-01 08:52:17 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
213 2011-04-01 08:52:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116112 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 815 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78362.67990074
214 2011-04-01 08:52:27 <JFK911> lol
215 2011-04-01 08:52:32 <JFK911> i knew it was going to shoot back up again
216 2011-04-01 09:02:33 <midnightmagic> how did you know?
217 2011-04-01 09:03:01 <[Tycho]> I wonder if they really experienced DDoS or not :)
218 2011-04-01 09:10:34 <noagendamarket> I think someone is trolling the difficulty and trying to setup a situation where there are easy and hard mining periods...
219 2011-04-01 09:11:03 <noagendamarket> I guess we will fin d out
220 2011-04-01 09:11:51 <Blitzboom> if they price would make some bigger jumps, that would be no problem
221 2011-04-01 09:14:28 <JFK911> noagendamarket: i agree
222 2011-04-01 09:14:47 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
223 2011-04-01 09:14:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8,"low":0.7753,"vol":4015,"buy":0.7754,"sell":0.7915,"last":0.7753}}
224 2011-04-01 09:14:53 <JFK911> hm 0.8
225 2011-04-01 09:15:02 <JFK911> hasnt really gone far above that in a while has it
226 2011-04-01 09:15:18 <Blitzboom> no, its been pretty stable for a while now
227 2011-04-01 09:15:39 <Blitzboom> i suspect a breakthrough sometime soon though
228 2011-04-01 09:22:49 <genjix> tcatm: did you see the links I gave you yesterday?
229 2011-04-01 09:23:12 <genjix> oh sweet i see it on there :p
230 2011-04-01 09:23:40 <genjix> jgarzik: http://bitcoinwatch.com/ <- you want to add GBP? I've completed the API
231 2011-04-01 09:28:32 <dbitcoin> ;;bc, calc 2000000
232 2011-04-01 09:28:32 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
233 2011-04-01 09:28:43 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,calc 2000000
234 2011-04-01 09:28:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 day, 17 hours, 8 minutes, and 51 seconds
235 2011-04-01 09:29:32 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stat
236 2011-04-01 09:29:32 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
237 2011-04-01 09:29:48 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,help
238 2011-04-01 09:29:49 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
239 2011-04-01 09:30:18 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
240 2011-04-01 09:30:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116115 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 812 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78305.53092182
241 2011-04-01 09:30:36 <tcatm> genjix: added :) (I run bcw now)
242 2011-04-01 09:30:45 <genjix> oh cool
243 2011-04-01 09:30:48 <genjix> nice
244 2011-04-01 09:31:05 <tcatm> actually the update script hang again so it wasn't updated :/
245 2011-04-01 09:31:22 <genjix> no worries. just making sure you knew.
246 2011-04-01 09:33:22 <tcatm> I've ported the backend from perl to python-django and sometimes I wouldn't update
247 2011-04-01 09:34:36 <genjix> ok, so now i know that I don't want to try django
248 2011-04-01 09:34:55 <tcatm> why?
249 2011-04-01 09:35:53 <genjix> frameworks seem to restrictive and shoehorn you into their way of thinking.
250 2011-04-01 09:36:33 <tcatm> it's rock solid. I was doing something uncommon and got unicode/utf-8 handling wrong so it throw an exception I didn't see (a cronjob updates bcw and I disabled cron emails)
251 2011-04-01 09:36:38 <genjix> i.e build a model, then build the site (view) around that. I build sites starting from the view, then add controllers and the models come last...
252 2011-04-01 09:36:56 <tcatm> You can do that with django.
253 2011-04-01 09:37:16 <genjix> yeah but php gives more freedom for expression.
254 2011-04-01 09:37:41 <ersi> That's good and very bad sometimes.
255 2011-04-01 09:37:51 <ersi> Depending on how much freedom you use
256 2011-04-01 09:38:14 <dirtyfilthy> god i hate php
257 2011-04-01 09:38:21 <dirtyfilthy> that is some ugly shit
258 2011-04-01 09:38:29 <tcatm> PHP is a little bit too much freedom and most PHP programmers have bad habits.
259 2011-04-01 09:38:34 <dirtyfilthy> i used to do it for a living
260 2011-04-01 09:39:07 <xelister> in php you are free to write shit scripts that easly and feastly grant xss access to all hackers
261 2011-04-01 09:39:16 <genjix> :) i would prefer python, but it seems php is better for webdev
262 2011-04-01 09:39:19 <dirtyfilthy> the syntax alone made me want to scrape out my own eyeballs with a teaspoon
263 2011-04-01 09:39:56 <genjix> you mean C syntax?
264 2011-04-01 09:40:24 <xelister> dirtyfilthy: still better then visual basic :P
265 2011-04-01 09:40:32 <dirtyfilthy> hey, i like c, c require disripine, oo on php is hopelessly broken
266 2011-04-01 09:40:56 <genjix> oh i don't use oo in php
267 2011-04-01 09:41:03 <genjix> not worth it for websites
268 2011-04-01 09:41:28 <xelister> genjix: wrong
269 2011-04-01 09:41:40 <xelister> well, at least for portals
270 2011-04-01 09:41:43 <genjix> well we all have our preferences :)
271 2011-04-01 09:41:45 <dirtyfilthy> eh i'm a ruby web-dev and decent oo gives me serious wood
272 2011-04-01 09:41:49 <xelister> its not a matter of preference
273 2011-04-01 09:42:05 <xelister> it is brain dead to not use OO in php when coding a complex portal
274 2011-04-01 09:42:29 <genjix> never coded one. but for my exchange it's not needed.
275 2011-04-01 09:42:35 <genjix> you have some pages which display shit
276 2011-04-01 09:42:41 <genjix> the 'stuff' is in mysql
277 2011-04-01 09:42:45 <xelister> genjix: bullshit
278 2011-04-01 09:42:46 <genjix> so OO isn't needed.
279 2011-04-01 09:43:01 <xelister> technically, you can build a house from matches
280 2011-04-01 09:43:12 <xelister> in practice, you really want to use concrete, stones, metals, etc
281 2011-04-01 09:43:55 <xelister> non-OO, low-level basic php, would take x2 - x5 longer to create a serious web portal in
282 2011-04-01 09:44:02 <genjix> OO is good for applications where you have modules, widgets, objects .etc
283 2011-04-01 09:44:18 <xelister> all of thoes are present in serious portals
284 2011-04-01 09:44:21 <genjix> ok as I said... I haven't coded a portal. I'm referring to my exchange.
285 2011-04-01 09:44:29 <xelister> I did
286 2011-04-01 09:45:13 <xelister> genjix: no one sane will choose/agree to code a big portal without OO
287 2011-04-01 09:45:14 <xelister> :)
288 2011-04-01 09:45:48 <genjix> it has data 'model' in MySQL, pages display 'view' that data. and when a user clicks buttons then it calls methods which actuate on the data 'controller'
289 2011-04-01 09:46:03 <xelister> and data controller is in what, php of course?
290 2011-04-01 09:46:10 <xelister> since we are talking about a php website
291 2011-04-01 09:46:24 <genjix> if i use oo then i'm re-engineering http
292 2011-04-01 09:46:37 <xelister> you are making no sense.
293 2011-04-01 09:46:43 <xelister> are we talking about same "oo" ?
294 2011-04-01 09:47:15 <genjix> im talking about classes. i dont use them.
295 2011-04-01 09:47:21 <genjix> (in PHP)
296 2011-04-01 09:47:31 <genjix> but I rely on them heavily in C++
297 2011-04-01 09:47:38 <xelister> using object oriented programming in the php code is re-engeenering http???????????????? this makes no sense what so ever :O  are you stoned O_o
298 2011-04-01 09:47:47 <genjix> different tools for different jobs
299 2011-04-01 09:48:03 <genjix> re-engineering the web protocol
300 2011-04-01 09:48:08 <xelister> what has HTTP protocol to do with server-side scripting language and what paradigms it uses internally???????????
301 2011-04-01 09:48:13 <JFK911> lets get stoned
302 2011-04-01 09:48:17 <genjix> each webpage = an object
303 2011-04-01 09:48:30 <genjix> each action that a webpage accepts = class method
304 2011-04-01 09:48:44 <xelister> genjix: see, a class is already OO
305 2011-04-01 09:49:03 <genjix> nvm
306 2011-04-01 09:49:34 <xelister> you would like to NOT do that, and instead write each page like say add_friend.php  and url  portal.com/add_friend.php?id=125&tag=591232  ??  :D :D
307 2011-04-01 09:49:43 <xelister> lol did that.  Ha that is so 2005's.
308 2011-04-01 09:50:01 <xelister> scratch that
309 2011-04-01 09:50:05 <xelister> lol did that.  Ha that is so 2001's.
310 2011-04-01 09:50:19 <xelister> Seriously, using such approach today,    GUARANTEES  totall  FAILURE of such project, I can bet 500 btc on that.
311 2011-04-01 09:50:37 <genjix> portal.com/friends/add/  <- yes
312 2011-04-01 09:50:59 <genjix> and you POST your data to that
313 2011-04-01 09:51:08 <Diablo-D3> did someone say portal?
314 2011-04-01 09:51:31 <Diablo-D3> that doesnt look like a triumph to me :<
315 2011-04-01 09:51:37 <xelister> portal.com/friends/add/   can mean as well that server-side php is using, or not using, object oriented classes to realize the functions under this url
316 2011-04-01 09:53:58 <genjix> tcatm: it's not showing the correct prices https://britcoin.co.uk/api/ticker.php
317 2011-04-01 09:54:00 <Stellar> i wonder why php team need to take 1 week to bring back the wiki.php.net and another clueless for pecl2.php.net
318 2011-04-01 09:54:22 <Stellar> pecl2 is mostly directory listing lol
319 2011-04-01 09:54:58 <genjix> tcatm: 0.5882 0.25 0.58 16.00   <- should say 0.58 0.6 0.58 ...
320 2011-04-01 09:55:29 <genjix> also bitcoinwatch is missing the GBP text like "1 Russian ruble is worth 0.04 BTC"
321 2011-04-01 10:02:03 <tcatm> genjix: nope. your lowest ask is 0.25
322 2011-04-01 10:02:51 <tcatm> https://britcoin.co.uk/api/getDepth.php [0.2500, 0]
323 2011-04-01 10:02:52 <genjix> must be a mistake on my side then.
324 2011-04-01 10:03:02 <genjix> I'll fix that.
325 2011-04-01 10:03:33 <genjix> ohh, it's showing orders that are completed also... sorry.
326 2011-04-01 10:04:35 <genjix> ok fixed
327 2011-04-01 10:04:38 <tcatm> I'll add the "1 GBP is worth x BTC" once britcoin has a little more volume.
328 2011-04-01 10:04:44 <genjix> ok
329 2011-04-01 10:05:07 <tcatm> Hm. I could automate that.
330 2011-04-01 10:05:41 <tcatm> getDepth still returns 0.2500,0 0
331 2011-04-01 10:05:58 <genjix> ok i fixed it.
332 2011-04-01 10:06:03 <Pander> guys, last week I filed a request at Unicode Consortium to assign a Unicode to the bitcoin currency sign
333 2011-04-01 10:06:44 <Blitzboom> which sign?
334 2011-04-01 10:06:46 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
335 2011-04-01 10:06:47 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
336 2011-04-01 10:06:49 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
337 2011-04-01 10:06:49 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
338 2011-04-01 10:06:51 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
339 2011-04-01 10:06:51 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
340 2011-04-01 10:06:53 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
341 2011-04-01 10:06:53 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
342 2011-04-01 10:06:56 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
343 2011-04-01 10:06:56 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
344 2011-04-01 10:06:57 <Blitzboom> sirius-m, please
345 2011-04-01 10:06:58 <eqxogcgxf> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
346 2011-04-01 10:06:58 <vxwtkxlaz> bitcoin blows you blow your mother
347 2011-04-01 10:07:05 <WakiMiko_> -_-
348 2011-04-01 10:07:07 <genjix> tcatm: i have more volume than the RUB exchange ;)
349 2011-04-01 10:07:18 <Blitzboom> Pander: which sign exactly?
350 2011-04-01 10:07:53 <tcatm> genjix: yep. I'd like to hide RUB and GAU, too
351 2011-04-01 10:08:25 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
352 2011-04-01 10:08:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116124 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 803 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 78607.93528195
353 2011-04-01 10:08:27 <tcatm> getTrades does not show the same lasttrade as ticker.php
354 2011-04-01 10:09:34 <genjix> let me look
355 2011-04-01 10:11:12 <genjix> tcatm: yep that's because several trades were done at the same time.
356 2011-04-01 10:12:10 <tcatm> k
357 2011-04-01 10:12:33 <tcatm> wait. why don't they show in getTrades?
358 2011-04-01 10:14:16 <genjix> its show also orders that are still open
359 2011-04-01 10:14:25 <genjix> so i need to fix that actually...
360 2011-04-01 10:14:46 <tcatm> Does that mean I have to drop values from my database?
361 2011-04-01 10:14:56 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r82fdc825755c intersango/www/api/getDepth.php: only show open orders. http://tinyurl.com/3jxb48f
362 2011-04-01 10:14:58 <genjix> no, i should be doing it correctly.
363 2011-04-01 10:15:18 <genjix> i just was unsure exactly how the mtgox api works
364 2011-04-01 10:15:22 <tcatm> bitcoincharts assumes data it fetched from getTrades once will never change...
365 2011-04-01 10:15:31 <genjix> ok
366 2011-04-01 10:15:45 <da2ce7> genjix, tcatm, good work in having it up on bitcoincharts!
367 2011-04-01 10:15:51 <genjix> yeah getTrades shows completed orders in last 24 hours
368 2011-04-01 10:16:33 <genjix> getDepth shows trades that are open in last 24 hours
369 2011-04-01 10:16:56 <genjix> ticket (should) show for lastest: the last *completed* trade.
370 2011-04-01 10:17:00 <genjix> r
371 2011-04-01 10:17:13 <genjix> thanks da2ce7 ^^
372 2011-04-01 10:18:01 <tcatm> shouldn't getDepth show the complete orderbook?
373 2011-04-01 10:18:14 <genjix> ok i will make it like that then.
374 2011-04-01 10:21:01 <genjix> volume shows the total bitcoin amount available, right?
375 2011-04-01 10:21:05 <genjix> not GBP
376 2011-04-01 10:22:11 <idnar> haha
377 2011-04-01 10:22:38 <tcatm> yep, volume is in bitcoin
378 2011-04-01 10:22:42 <genjix> k
379 2011-04-01 10:22:44 <da2ce7> britcoin has the 2nd deepest market
380 2011-04-01 10:28:04 <genjix> 1042 btc + 80 GBP? don't think so...
381 2011-04-01 10:29:19 <xelister> <eqxogcgxf>  bitcoin blows you blow your mother
382 2011-04-01 10:29:33 <xelister> damn trolls.  HOW WOULD THAT EVEN BE POSSIBLE :-E
383 2011-04-01 10:29:42 <xelister> I demand better trolls
384 2011-04-01 10:29:47 <xelister> luke-jr: wazup
385 2011-04-01 10:43:54 <genjix> it's like each side keeps trying to bluff each other into offering better prices.
386 2011-04-01 10:44:26 <genjix> offering 1 BTC or 1 GBP taster amounts, whereas the majority volume lies at higher prices.
387 2011-04-01 10:44:59 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r5173b57f4d1b intersango/www/api/ticker.php: fixed ticker to show only completed transactions for last. http://tinyurl.com/3qzxe9m
388 2011-04-01 10:53:51 <mizerydearia> Does anyone not have any bitcoins or only 0.05 from faucet and otherwise very little bitcoins or maybe new to Bitcoin?
389 2011-04-01 10:56:03 <theorbtwo> Hmm.  My rpcminer is failing to talk to mining.bitcoin.cz.
390 2011-04-01 10:56:59 <Validus> try to login on the website
391 2011-04-01 10:57:19 <Validus> at least it should show if its your miner or the site is down
392 2011-04-01 10:58:20 <theorbtwo> Well, I'm already logged in, and I don't see a logout button.
393 2011-04-01 10:58:59 <theorbtwo> Worse, possibly, the site's statistics don't seem to say that it's down.
394 2011-04-01 10:59:13 <Validus> then double check your miner settings
395 2011-04-01 11:02:37 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, Hiya.  Are you around?
396 2011-04-01 11:03:34 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, noagendamarket ordered service from you for AutoVPS.com for a VPS account.  He paid for three months and then less than twenty-four hours per my suggestion, he cancelled service...or at least tried to.
397 2011-04-01 11:04:00 <mizerydearia> MagicalTux, I am uncertain as to your response, but from what I heard from noagendamarket it appears that you are unwilling or unable to provide a refund or to terminate the service account.  Is this true?
398 2011-04-01 11:04:43 <genjix> dude maybe you could PM him
399 2011-04-01 11:04:58 <genjix> instead of making libelous accusations in publix
400 2011-04-01 11:04:59 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r0fc5b3855436 intersango/ (cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php withdraw.php): Revert "Truncate entered withdrawal values to 2 decimal places." http://tinyurl.com/3plfxhb
401 2011-04-01 11:04:59 <genjix> c
402 2011-04-01 11:05:01 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r1f1a49544cfd intersango/withdraw.php: Truncate decimals withdr http://tinyurl.com/424f2v2
403 2011-04-01 11:05:03 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rfb250085f528 intersango/www/api/getTrades.php: limit trades to last 24hours. http://tinyurl.com/42pmcyq
404 2011-04-01 11:05:05 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r5402dae5a5a8 intersango/cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php: Truncate 2 places in cr/verif_btc Revert "Truncate entered withdrawal values to 2 decimal places." http://tinyurl.com/3u6pa2g
405 2011-04-01 11:05:20 <mizerydearia> genjix, libelous?
406 2011-04-01 11:05:28 <noagendamarket> genjix its not libel if its true.
407 2011-04-01 11:05:43 <genjix> i dont know the whole story.
408 2011-04-01 11:05:49 <noagendamarket> Im not posting about it because i am too pissed off
409 2011-04-01 11:06:00 <elliott> Is a source tarball of the latest bitcoin release available? I can't find one. I can use SVN if there isn't.
410 2011-04-01 11:06:24 <genjix> elliott: it's in the binary tarballs
411 2011-04-01 11:06:26 <genjix> under src/
412 2011-04-01 11:06:37 <elliott> Ah, thanks :)
413 2011-04-01 11:06:46 <mizerydearia> s/in any amount/to any extent/
414 2011-04-01 11:06:58 <noagendamarket> People need to know they wont get their money back when using the service.
415 2011-04-01 11:07:03 <noagendamarket> that is all
416 2011-04-01 11:07:05 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, that's libelous
417 2011-04-01 11:07:20 <genjix> maybe it's a misunderstanding :)
418 2011-04-01 11:07:20 <theorbtwo> Oh, hell.  -url http://bitcoin.mining.cz:8332 vs -url=http://bitcoin.mining.cz:8332
419 2011-04-01 11:07:30 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, Don't make unfalse accusatory statements.
420 2011-04-01 11:07:44 <noagendamarket> lol
421 2011-04-01 11:07:50 <mizerydearia> Just because you didn't get your money back (yet or ever) doesn't mean everyone will not get their money back
422 2011-04-01 11:08:02 <elliott> >_< the bitcoin makefile assumes wx is in /usr/local...
423 2011-04-01 11:08:03 <noagendamarket> well its in  the tos
424 2011-04-01 11:08:05 <elliott> is wx 2.9 required or does 2.8 work?
425 2011-04-01 11:08:16 <sipa> you need 2.9
426 2011-04-01 11:08:34 <elliott> argh
427 2011-04-01 11:08:35 <mizerydearia> hmm http://legal.tibanne.com/Tibanne_ToS_20100131.html
428 2011-04-01 11:08:56 <elliott> i'll just use the binary :)
429 2011-04-01 11:09:19 <mizerydearia> "In case of termination of the Domains either through the customer himself or a Domain disputes decision, the customer has no claim for a substitute domain or a refund. Should the Domain be terminated prematurely, then no refunding will take place, if the termination was not caused deliberately or grossly negligently through Tibanne Co. Ltd.. This applies likewise to other performances or additionally booked options."
430 2011-04-01 11:09:37 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, You have no claim for a refund
431 2011-04-01 11:10:23 <mizerydearia> Basically, lesson to be learned here, is never order service before reading terms of service
432 2011-04-01 11:10:30 <grbgout> "unfalse" ^_^
433 2011-04-01 11:10:43 <mizerydearia> grbgout, unfalse?
434 2011-04-01 11:10:50 <grbgout> mizerydearia: your word, not mine.
435 2011-04-01 11:10:51 <mizerydearia> "The payment for a service and other fees are not refundable in case of a premature termination of contract."
436 2011-04-01 11:11:00 <mizerydearia> lawl
437 2011-04-01 11:11:10 <mizerydearia> s/unfalse/false/
438 2011-04-01 11:11:13 <grbgout> ^_^
439 2011-04-01 11:11:15 <mizerydearia> or untrue
440 2011-04-01 11:11:16 <mizerydearia> meh
441 2011-04-01 11:11:32 <grbgout> How dare you make unfalse statements about how beutiful I am!
442 2011-04-01 11:11:41 <mizerydearia> ^_^
443 2011-04-01 11:11:45 <grbgout> *beautiful
444 2011-04-01 11:11:47 <mizerydearia> only 21,000 results for unfalse @ google
445 2011-04-01 11:12:01 <mizerydearia> woo http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=unfalse
446 2011-04-01 11:12:15 <noagendamarket> Its good to know you can take someones word for things
447 2011-04-01 11:12:22 <mizerydearia> "The payments for services is also not refundable in case of disruptions in the service due to force majeure or other causes outside the realm of Tibanne Co. Ltd. responsibilities."
448 2011-04-01 11:12:52 <noagendamarket> So people will get no refund at all
449 2011-04-01 11:12:56 <noagendamarket> is not libel
450 2011-04-01 11:13:01 <mizerydearia> noagendamarket, I apologize if I had caused or influenced you to order service and then to later suggest to not have ordered or to not preserve the service account.
451 2011-04-01 11:13:26 <mizerydearia> o_X
452 2011-04-01 11:13:39 <mizerydearia> =/
453 2011-04-01 11:13:44 <genjix> i'll take that vps off you if you wish :)
454 2011-04-01 11:13:59 <grbgout> mizerydearia: clearly he couldn't handle the unfalseness of your statements.
455 2011-04-01 11:14:04 <mizerydearia> heh
456 2011-04-01 11:14:40 <mizerydearia> ugh, wtf is going on?
457 2011-04-01 11:15:10 <mizerydearia> it appears noagendamarket is mad at me, but I did not intend to piss him off, however, I guess I did by indicating such things as the terms of service clearly stating no refund.
458 2011-04-01 11:15:28 <Pander> Blitzboom the B with two vertical bars
459 2011-04-01 11:15:29 <mizerydearia> meh, maybe he's just stressed out
460 2011-04-01 11:15:37 <mizerydearia> he's been having way too much stress lately
461 2011-04-01 11:15:47 <genjix> i think he got disconnected
462 2011-04-01 11:15:51 <genjix> don't worry.
463 2011-04-01 11:15:51 <mizerydearia> nah
464 2011-04-01 11:15:53 <mizerydearia> he quit
465 2011-04-01 11:16:01 <mizerydearia> and from google account also
466 2011-04-01 11:16:03 <Blitzboom> cool, Pander. keep us updadet. got a picture of that?
467 2011-04-01 11:16:11 <Blitzboom> updated*
468 2011-04-01 11:16:18 <mizerydearia> it's late for him too
469 2011-04-01 11:16:23 <mizerydearia> 1am in Australia
470 2011-04-01 11:17:17 <mizerydearia> I think I will compensate him for his loss as a kind of gesture or something
471 2011-04-01 11:17:31 <genjix> by opening the witcoin sourcecode?
472 2011-04-01 11:17:34 <genjix> good idea
473 2011-04-01 11:17:36 <mizerydearia> no
474 2011-04-01 11:17:48 <mizerydearia> that has no compensatory affect on him whatsoever
475 2011-04-01 11:17:57 <Pander> I reconstructed the thai bath a bit for the proposal. request has to go through five stages
476 2011-04-01 11:18:26 <Pander> the character for unicode consortium is only reference implementation, all fonts need to provide one of their own
477 2011-04-01 11:19:20 <mizerydearia> genjix, in your opinion, what benefit will there be for witcoin to be open sourced with also considering a supposed lack of interest for others to contribute towards the development of witcoin.com?
478 2011-04-01 11:19:28 <mizerydearia> At least now rather than later
479 2011-04-01 11:19:54 <genjix> i got 6 security bug fixes from people's suggestions.
480 2011-04-01 11:20:25 <genjix> and also it's nice to be sharing. you don't lose any benefit by doing that.
481 2011-04-01 11:20:33 <mizerydearia> I do agree that open source is better than closed source to establish more perfected code.
482 2011-04-01 11:20:35 <genjix> you can only gain.
483 2011-04-01 11:20:53 <mizerydearia> In terms of overal established source code, yes
484 2011-04-01 11:21:00 <mizerydearia> in terms of established community I am not so sure
485 2011-04-01 11:21:19 <genjix> i guess the reason why all my stuff is open sourced is because im nice and to establish trust also.
486 2011-04-01 11:21:30 <mizerydearia> that makes sense
487 2011-04-01 11:21:43 <mizerydearia> genjix, May I ask what in particular are your projects?  e.g. a simple list?
488 2011-04-01 11:22:26 <genjix> http://github.com/genjix https://gitorious.org/~genjix http://sourceforge.net/users/genjix
489 2011-04-01 11:24:31 <mizerydearia> genjix, hmm, other than donations, do you establish any profits from any of those products or services?
490 2011-04-01 11:24:45 <mizerydearia> e.g. poker
491 2011-04-01 11:24:49 <genjix> No. And I don't get donations either.
492 2011-04-01 11:24:53 <mizerydearia> hmm
493 2011-04-01 11:25:45 <mizerydearia> genjix, I imagine you manage supporting yourself through means unrelated to bitcoin perhaps?
494 2011-04-01 11:25:57 <genjix> yeah online poker
495 2011-04-01 11:26:00 <mizerydearia> ^_^
496 2011-04-01 11:26:32 <mizerydearia> that's cool.
497 2011-04-01 11:26:34 <mizerydearia> I can't say the same.
498 2011-04-01 11:26:51 <Blitzboom> by playing poker or by running one?
499 2011-04-01 11:26:52 <genjix> playing.
500 2011-04-01 11:26:53 <mizerydearia> And I think that is a primary reason that is holding me back or causing me to be afraid.
501 2011-04-01 11:27:18 <mizerydearia> fear of failure or being unable to survive or succeed
502 2011-04-01 11:28:16 <ersi> If you don't feel like going open source, don't.
503 2011-04-01 11:28:33 <genjix> if you're hoping to live off bitcoins that's a bad idea
504 2011-04-01 11:28:34 <mizerydearia> ersi, Ever since I began working on the site in January I had intended on open sourcing the code base at some point.
505 2011-04-01 11:28:35 <genjix> very risky.
506 2011-04-01 11:28:56 <grbgout> Agreed, bitcoins are too high risk at the moment.
507 2011-04-01 11:29:14 <ersi> Yeah, but do it in your own pace - if you feel like doing it, you should - sometime. :)
508 2011-04-01 11:29:42 <mizerydearia> However even in witcoin channel, there has been a regularly constant effort for discussion towards open sourcing
509 2011-04-01 11:29:54 <ersi> Some might feel better if it does say that somewhere on the site
510 2011-04-01 11:29:56 <mizerydearia> Even though I tend to repeat the same responses it seems constant
511 2011-04-01 11:30:10 <mizerydearia> from the same people ^_^
512 2011-04-01 11:30:33 <mizerydearia> I think maybe I am being tested
513 2011-04-01 11:30:42 <mizerydearia> to see when my response will change so as to detect lying or something
514 2011-04-01 11:30:55 <ersi> Quite possible
515 2011-04-01 11:30:58 <x6763> some people behave as though open source is their religion
516 2011-04-01 11:31:24 <mizerydearia> that makes sense
517 2011-04-01 11:31:31 <mizerydearia> it is very easy to be obsessed with ideas
518 2011-04-01 11:31:37 <mizerydearia> ideas are infectious if not used in moderation
519 2011-04-01 11:32:02 <mizerydearia> I think that is the basis for cults to exist and thrive
520 2011-04-01 11:32:17 <Blitzboom> well, isnt bitcoin the same thing?
521 2011-04-01 11:32:22 <Blitzboom> an idea
522 2011-04-01 11:32:27 <mizerydearia> Bitcoin cult ^_^
523 2011-04-01 11:32:37 <x6763> lol
524 2011-04-01 11:32:55 <mizerydearia> I can see the headlines now...
525 2011-04-01 11:33:32 <mizerydearia> there's "leader of anonymous" and then maybe leader of bitcoin cult
526 2011-04-01 11:34:36 <mizerydearia> But does anyone know about leader of Serco?  the largest business-related cult in existence
527 2011-04-01 11:34:47 <mizerydearia> business/religious-cult
528 2011-04-01 11:35:32 <mizerydearia> oh, btw, does anyone want five bitcoins?
529 2011-04-01 11:36:03 <mizerydearia> see forum in discussion board for details ^_^
530 2011-04-01 11:38:02 <Blitzboom> why doesnt anonymous jump on bitcoin?
531 2011-04-01 11:43:39 <gavinandresen> what did you go and do that for?  Now I'll have that stupid "smooth operator" song in my head all day....
532 2011-04-01 11:43:52 <mizerydearia> lawl
533 2011-04-01 11:45:30 <EvanR-work> bitcoin april fools -> http://freestateinitiative.org/
534 2011-04-01 11:45:51 <EvanR-work> The Free State Initiative launches http://freestateinitiative.org/launchThursday Mar 31 - 11:54pm
535 2011-04-01 11:47:59 <da2ce7> oooh, is this a april fools initiative?
536 2011-04-01 11:48:12 <EvanR-work> all signs say yes
537 2011-04-01 11:49:08 <da2ce7> stupid april fools.
538 2011-04-01 11:50:51 <EvanR-work> well the guy showed up yesterday with a supporting henchman in #bitcoin-politics and he sounded like a troll
539 2011-04-01 11:50:57 <gavinandresen> Yeah, damn idiot kids with their April Fools pranks....
540 2011-04-01 11:52:01 <EvanR-work> he says intellectual property should be protected with state force because copying works is like raping women, that is to say "mind rape"
541 2011-04-01 11:52:19 <kiba> rofl
542 2011-04-01 11:53:27 <da2ce7> ok, serious: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4983.0
543 2011-04-01 11:53:44 <EvanR-work> haha only serious
544 2011-04-01 11:54:21 <da2ce7> wouldn't public-private key encription be the best solution?
545 2011-04-01 11:54:42 <da2ce7> where the private componets are encripted to the public key upon generation?
546 2011-04-01 11:55:10 <da2ce7> and the private master key is encripted with a passphase?
547 2011-04-01 11:55:49 <idnar> EvanR-work: don't be silly, it's like murder, not rape
548 2011-04-01 11:55:57 <EvanR-work> he said both
549 2011-04-01 11:55:57 <idnar> EvanR-work: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/30/amazons-digital-storage-service-slammed-critics/
550 2011-04-01 11:56:02 <da2ce7> providing a user dosn't need to spend coins, no passwords are needed.
551 2011-04-01 11:56:34 <EvanR-work> idnar: wow.
552 2011-04-01 12:06:37 <Pander> what files can I delete from .bitcoin related to mining only? blk0001.dat? more? less?
553 2011-04-01 12:06:55 <ersi> anything that isn't wallet.dat if I'm correct
554 2011-04-01 12:08:15 <sipa> and addr.dat is you like to keep your address book
555 2011-04-01 12:08:16 <Pander> and I dont want to loose my address book? or that isn't in addr.dat?
556 2011-04-01 12:08:25 <Pander> crosspost
557 2011-04-01 12:08:32 <sipa> all the rest can be reconstructed through the block chain
558 2011-04-01 12:08:49 <Pander> what is that stuff in database dir
559 2011-04-01 12:12:27 <ersi> I think that's related to the crunching of coins aswell as the blockchain.
560 2011-04-01 12:13:51 <sipa> iirc those are the log files of the database
561 2011-04-01 12:14:16 <genjix> does anybody know how to execute cron under another user?
562 2011-04-01 12:14:29 <genjix> when i try to connect to bitcoin in php, i get perm denied errors
563 2011-04-01 12:14:56 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rcead53f58276 intersango/withdraw.php: fixed truncation to use -8 not 2 since we use INT64 http://tinyurl.com/3r78v6a
564 2011-04-01 12:14:57 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r59edd4e0db68 intersango/cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php: truncate use -8 for cron/verif_btc http://tinyurl.com/3wq6x5k
565 2011-04-01 12:14:59 <genjix> 'Unable to connect to ... ' eventhough it works on it's own.
566 2011-04-01 12:15:01 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rc793e87b57d8 intersango/util.php: bump up number of confirms to 4. http://tinyurl.com/3rebc7z
567 2011-04-01 12:23:48 <genjix> nvm
568 2011-04-01 12:25:08 <kiba> hmm, nefario told me why he did not need my work weeks and weeks after
569 2011-04-01 12:25:20 <kiba> the fact
570 2011-04-01 12:25:26 <kiba> I am dismayed with the lack of communication
571 2011-04-01 12:26:05 <kiba> I can't fix stuff if I don't know what's wrong!
572 2011-04-01 12:26:49 <kiba> but anyway...I can move on I guess
573 2011-04-01 12:27:16 <gavinandresen> Pander:  addr.dat is IP addresses of nodes you've connected to.  You only need wallet.dat
574 2011-04-01 12:27:35 <gavinandresen> (your 'address book' is in wallet.dat)
575 2011-04-01 12:27:57 <grbgout> Pander: why are you wanting to delete things in .bitcoin?
576 2011-04-01 12:40:28 <justmoon> are there any bootstrapping methods other than IRC implemented in the official client so far?
577 2011-04-01 12:41:11 <BlueMatt> justmoon: yes, a list of peers and in git HEAD a list of dns peers
578 2011-04-01 12:41:23 <BlueMatt> ie named addresses which point to peers
579 2011-04-01 12:41:31 <sipa> and -addnode and -connect
580 2011-04-01 12:41:40 <xelister> we could add easly Freenet bootstrapping
581 2011-04-01 12:42:39 <BlueMatt> we need a better bootstrapping method, Im in favor of a torrent-style dht
582 2011-04-01 12:42:47 <BlueMatt> but there are many options
583 2011-04-01 12:43:13 <justmoon> ok thanks for the response, I'll look into those
584 2011-04-01 12:43:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: how do you bootstrap that DHT?
585 2011-04-01 12:43:51 <xelister> what chan/serv is used now for irc bootstrap
586 2011-04-01 12:44:09 <nanotube> xelister: lfnet/#bitcoin
587 2011-04-01 12:44:23 <justmoon> host is irc.lfnet.org
588 2011-04-01 12:44:34 <BlueMatt> sipa: true, but IMHO we can use the existing dht in bittorrent and chose a random hash and use that
589 2011-04-01 12:45:41 <sipa> i don't like depending on yet another network
590 2011-04-01 12:45:52 <sipa> as an optional bootstrapper, sure
591 2011-04-01 12:46:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: obviously keep the hard-coded list of nodes and the dns seed list
592 2011-04-01 12:46:23 <BlueMatt> but we need to move off of irc
593 2011-04-01 12:46:33 <BlueMatt> we already overflow that chan
594 2011-04-01 12:47:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: any better ideas?
595 2011-04-01 12:47:44 <genjix> setup our own irc network which has no channel limits.
596 2011-04-01 12:48:31 <BlueMatt> meh, Im not a big fan of a centralized bootstrap, a list of nodes being slightly less centralized than one server
597 2011-04-01 12:48:34 <sipa> in that case you could as well just use bitcoin itself
598 2011-04-01 12:48:40 <sipa> it already has a database of peers
599 2011-04-01 12:48:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh...
600 2011-04-01 12:49:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: never took much of a look at the list of peers, how much is it actually used
601 2011-04-01 12:49:35 <sipa> peers tell eachother the addresses of their peers
602 2011-04-01 12:49:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: from what I can tell the first bootstrap happens almost entirely from irc
603 2011-04-01 12:50:36 <sipa> let's try
604 2011-04-01 12:53:53 <xelister> da2ce7: pubkey  06218EB5 D9C2A12C 0E0F4913 38DED6AE
605 2011-04-01 12:56:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: i've started a bitcoin with empty database here, with -noirc and -addnode
606 2011-04-01 12:56:17 <sipa> seems to open connections to the outside fine
607 2011-04-01 12:56:23 <sipa> not too many though, yet
608 2011-04-01 12:56:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: how many of them are on the hard-coded list
609 2011-04-01 12:56:46 <sipa> good point
610 2011-04-01 12:56:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: specifically, how many of the outgoing connections are, I dont care about incoming ones
611 2011-04-01 12:58:05 <gavinandresen> The networking code has a preference for dropping the hard-coded fallback ip connections after it has gathered more peers from addr messages (so the hardcoded nodes don't get 'full')
612 2011-04-01 12:58:37 <gavinandresen> ... and talk to jgarzik about his DNS seeding patch.
613 2011-04-01 13:00:12 <BlueMatt> yea dns seeding is a good idea too, but trying to use it for anything more than a fast-updating version of the hard-coded peers is just as unscalable as irc
614 2011-04-01 13:00:32 <BlueMatt> so still not the best idea for bootstraping imho
615 2011-04-01 13:00:57 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: hm, didnt know that.  Need to go do some more net.cpp reading
616 2011-04-01 13:01:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: why do you feel DNS seeding is unscalable?
617 2011-04-01 13:01:30 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: depends on how you are using it
618 2011-04-01 13:01:42 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: if you are trying to use it like the irc, well...
619 2011-04-01 13:01:57 <BlueMatt> its not much different than irc
620 2011-04-01 13:02:18 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: do you know how it works?  I don't see many parallels with IRC seeding.
621 2011-04-01 13:02:26 <sipa> DNS seeding is completely different
622 2011-04-01 13:02:34 <jgarzik> yep
623 2011-04-01 13:02:37 <sipa> it's a replacement for a hardcoded list
624 2011-04-01 13:02:44 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: are you planning on using it to add all nodes to or just a hardcoded list replacement
625 2011-04-01 13:03:04 <BlueMatt> because if its a hardcoded list replacement, then the first half of my earlier statement still applies
626 2011-04-01 13:03:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: which part?
627 2011-04-01 13:03:28 <BlueMatt> "trying to use it for anything more than a fast-updating version of the hard-coded peers"
628 2011-04-01 13:03:40 <BlueMatt> ie it is just a fast-updating version of the hard-coded lsit
629 2011-04-01 13:03:42 <xelister> BlueMatt: we have idea with da2ce7
630 2011-04-01 13:03:49 <xelister> about bootstraping
631 2011-04-01 13:03:54 <sipa> shoot
632 2011-04-01 13:03:56 <xelister> allow it also over freenet
633 2011-04-01 13:04:07 <xelister> we could take this first step to full btcfn
634 2011-04-01 13:04:12 <sipa> write a patch :)
635 2011-04-01 13:04:16 <xelister> sipa: yeap
636 2011-04-01 13:04:43 <xelister> do we have yet RPC or other call to foce-add a peer once we somehow obrtain peer IP:port ?
637 2011-04-01 13:04:50 <luke-jr> tcatm: then js-remote is broken
638 2011-04-01 13:04:56 <BlueMatt> I think bitcoin over freenet is a cool idea, but for bootstrapping...
639 2011-04-01 13:05:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: because tcatm wouldn't do it the sensible way
640 2011-04-01 13:05:11 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: and now it's "set in stone" sortof :P
641 2011-04-01 13:05:15 <BlueMatt> well on second thought I dont like it (just like my earlier dht idea, which is actually quite bad)
642 2011-04-01 13:05:47 <xelister> BlueMatt: yes, it can help boostrapping too
643 2011-04-01 13:06:12 <BlueMatt> xelister: I understand it can help, but Im not a big fan of using it therefor
644 2011-04-01 13:06:24 <xelister> why not
645 2011-04-01 13:06:35 <xelister> it is probably least fascinating use of BtcFn,
646 2011-04-01 13:06:38 <xelister> but it is what we need now
647 2011-04-01 13:06:42 <BlueMatt> <sipa> i don't like depending on yet another network
648 2011-04-01 13:06:47 <xelister> dunno is it just me, but for past days my boostrapping sycks
649 2011-04-01 13:06:55 <xelister> sucks. 5 peers :-E  instead of 50
650 2011-04-01 13:06:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: DNS seeding is a bootstrapping method, just like IRC.  It's not used to "add all nodes" -- just like IRC or the hardcoded list is not used to "add all nodes."  All you need is one node, and then peer exchange kicks in.
651 2011-04-01 13:07:21 <BlueMatt> xelister: yea the irc chan is overflowing
652 2011-04-01 13:07:30 <xelister> BlueMatt: indeed. But people that anyway run Freenet will love it, and there is noticible community of both bitcoin@freenet users
653 2011-04-01 13:07:47 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes, I understand that. Hence my comparison of it to the hard-coded list
654 2011-04-01 13:08:13 <BlueMatt> xelister: and I think thats great, but for everyone to use it
655 2011-04-01 13:08:36 <xelister> BlueMatt: yes, this is only for  bitcoin+freenet users.  We still need to improve other ways
656 2011-04-01 13:08:45 <xelister> BlueMatt: but, this method will be uncensorable  :)
657 2011-04-01 13:08:54 <BlueMatt> Exactly what xelister said, when the chan overflows clients just dont make many, if more than one or two outgoing connections so it needs more work
658 2011-04-01 13:09:03 <xelister> and will make it easier for both users (and us, developers of BtcFn) to start doing something usefull
659 2011-04-01 13:11:49 <da2ce7> personaly I think that BtcFn is something that needs to be done.  Bootstraping nodes via freenet requires somebody on freenet to keep a big list of nodes, and people download that list and connect to em at random
660 2011-04-01 13:12:14 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: I agree, it is a great idea
661 2011-04-01 13:12:55 <jgarzik> it's a minority feature, that won't help at all with the IRC overflow problem
662 2011-04-01 13:13:06 <BlueMatt> yep
663 2011-04-01 13:13:42 <xelister> jgarzik: bitcoin+freenet is a growing community, for them it will be major future and introduction to entire BtcFn
664 2011-04-01 13:14:01 <BlueMatt> xelister: but still not a majority in the bitcoin community
665 2011-04-01 13:14:09 <da2ce7> jgarzik.  the simple solution to the overfolw is to connect to two channels #bitcoin-? and #bitcoin-?  where ? is a random lettler.
666 2011-04-01 13:14:14 <xelister> I may write also another methof of adding peers, what do you propose?  for minor bounty prefferably
667 2011-04-01 13:14:36 <da2ce7> that would make each channel on average 12x less users.
668 2011-04-01 13:14:36 <jgarzik> Tonal in bitcoin is a major feature for the tonal community and luke-jr, too :)
669 2011-04-01 13:14:55 <BlueMatt> more like tonal community == luke-jr
670 2011-04-01 13:15:01 <jgarzik> yeap :)
671 2011-04-01 13:15:48 <da2ce7> when those channels start overflowing, we can make it two random letter.
672 2011-04-01 13:15:48 <xelister> jgarzik: I know 0 other users then luke-jr of tonal, and I know like 10 guys that use freenet&bitcoin, and I was not really searching
673 2011-04-01 13:16:03 <xelister> anyone uses daily tonall system in bitcoin
674 2011-04-01 13:16:08 <jgarzik> with a few more seeds from trusted folks, we can just turn off IRC seeding, and turn on DNS seeding by default.  Using multiple channels is just an ugly hack around the fact that IRC is a single-point-of-failure for us.
675 2011-04-01 13:16:41 <xelister> anyone uses daily tonall system in bitcoin?
676 2011-04-01 13:16:43 <jgarzik> that's how BT bootstraps Kademlia DHT, among other examples
677 2011-04-01 13:16:52 <tcatm> there's a new bitcoinwatch feature :)
678 2011-04-01 13:16:56 <xelister> jgarzik: as long standing solution,
679 2011-04-01 13:17:10 <jgarzik> tcatm: tonal, for April Fool's?  ;-)
680 2011-04-01 13:17:12 <xelister> does already connected peers work as seeders?
681 2011-04-01 13:17:24 <da2ce7> how many users do we have conencted to #bitcoin atm?
682 2011-04-01 13:17:27 <xelister> does already connected peers work as seeders - if not, then lets do that?
683 2011-04-01 13:17:42 <xelister> 3300 users of #bitcoin
684 2011-04-01 13:17:45 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree, but currently my clients dont connect very well when the irc overflows, so it does need a bit more work
685 2011-04-01 13:17:55 <tcatm> jgarzik: heh, we should have made a patch that converts bitcoin to tonal. maybe next year :)
686 2011-04-01 13:18:16 <jgarzik> xelister: as soon as you connect to _one_ bitcoin node, you exchange addresses ("peer exchange") and are on the network
687 2011-04-01 13:18:21 <xelister> I MADE A PATCH THAT AUTO-SENDS 24% OF YOUR GENERATED COINS TO IRS
688 2011-04-01 13:18:29 <xelister> WHY U NOT ACCEPT IT sirius-m
689 2011-04-01 13:18:31 <xelister> >_>
690 2011-04-01 13:18:33 <jgarzik> xelister: bootstrapping is the process of obtaining addresses for at least one node
691 2011-04-01 13:18:44 <jgarzik> tcatm: seen gavin's pull request for Tonal?  ;-)
692 2011-04-01 13:19:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what needs more work?  DNS seeding is disabled by default...
693 2011-04-01 13:19:03 <xelister> jgarzik: this is not good, I have 4 peers for day.  It should use thoes 4 nodes to get more nodes (I run maxpeers = 50)
694 2011-04-01 13:19:07 <BlueMatt> ha, my browser doesnt support tonal...oh wait none of them do
695 2011-04-01 13:19:16 <xelister> so we may have 2 problems
696 2011-04-01 13:19:18 <jgarzik> xelister: huh?
697 2011-04-01 13:19:31 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what xelister said, that is what I see
698 2011-04-01 13:19:31 <jgarzik> xelister: as soon as you connect to one node, you get a bunch of addresses
699 2011-04-01 13:19:32 <xelister> I got 4 connections, and it stays at 4 connections for a day so far
700 2011-04-01 13:19:35 <xelister> doesnt get mroe adresses
701 2011-04-01 13:19:41 <xelister> jgarzik: nope, just 4 connections all the time
702 2011-04-01 13:19:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: works great in theory, but in practice for some reason not
703 2011-04-01 13:19:59 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, xelister: you both tried DNS seeding?
704 2011-04-01 13:20:13 <xelister> no
705 2011-04-01 13:20:15 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: it should make too much of a difference?
706 2011-04-01 13:20:18 <luke-jr> da2ce7: why random? if one channel is full, add 1 and try the next :P
707 2011-04-01 13:20:29 <tcatm> jgarzik: ah I should read the forums before attaching IRC screen :)
708 2011-04-01 13:20:40 <xelister> jgarzik: do you know about "got 4 connections, but it doesnt incrase to more connections" problem?
709 2011-04-01 13:20:48 <xelister> or is it a new bug?
710 2011-04-01 13:21:03 <luke-jr> I suppose randomly join N+1 too
711 2011-04-01 13:21:03 <xelister> all was working fine past months, in broken in recent days
712 2011-04-01 13:21:04 <jgarzik> xelister: no -- but it is not relevant to the discussion of IRC-vs-DNS bootstrapping methods
713 2011-04-01 13:21:20 <jgarzik> xelister: that problem will be present, or absent, regardless of bootstrapping method.
714 2011-04-01 13:21:26 <xelister> yea, but also look at this problem buys.
715 2011-04-01 13:21:27 <xelister> guys
716 2011-04-01 13:21:37 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
717 2011-04-01 13:21:55 <xelister> would you bounty something for bootstrapping method that works and always gets you at least few peers?
718 2011-04-01 13:22:12 <jgarzik> xelister: DNS seeding does that
719 2011-04-01 13:22:17 <xelister> protocol rfc + implement server + implement patch to bitcoin + run first 2 servers for example
720 2011-04-01 13:22:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why would the greater tonal community start using Bitcoin when they aren't welcome?