1 2011-04-08 00:00:00 <Kiba> Bitcoin is basically a westerner currency
  2 2011-04-08 00:00:16 <gasteve> Kiba: what makes you say that?
  3 2011-04-08 00:00:28 <MagicalTux> I'm pretty sure it could work quite well here in Japan
  4 2011-04-08 00:00:42 <gjs278> it's only usable by people with computers
  5 2011-04-08 00:00:45 <Kiba> gjs278: and mostly people who understand English
  6 2011-04-08 00:00:46 <gjs278> nobody in japan has computers they only have gigabit phones and sexbots
  7 2011-04-08 00:01:16 <bd_> I've been to Japan, they're not leading the pack in cellphone R&D anymore :|
  8 2011-04-08 00:01:19 <luke-jr> gjs278: that was before the quakes :P
  9 2011-04-08 00:01:25 <Kiba> bd_: so..what do you think of my project?
 10 2011-04-08 00:01:36 <bd_> Once felica comes to android, they'll have basically no edge on american phone OSes.
 11 2011-04-08 00:01:43 <Kiba> it seems that the telephone network in Japan have a tendency to get overwhelmed in an emergency
 12 2011-04-08 00:01:55 <gasteve> part of the value proposition of bitcoin is that it has a worldwide market...without that, bitcoin is a lot less valuable IMO...gold is similarly valuable in that there is a worldwide market (spanning many governmental jurisdictions) for it
 13 2011-04-08 00:01:58 <bd_> Kiba: cell networks ANYWHERE do that
 14 2011-04-08 00:02:02 <luke-jr> bd_: phones suck anyway
 15 2011-04-08 00:02:12 <Kiba> BUT they're gigabit!
 16 2011-04-08 00:02:18 <bd_> Kiba: and, cell internet worked great during the earthquake in Japan :)
 17 2011-04-08 00:02:22 <gjs278> imagine how fast they could grab the block chain
 18 2011-04-08 00:02:25 <bd_> provided your local base station wasn't destroyed
 19 2011-04-08 00:02:36 <bd_> gjs278: block chain acquisition is CPU-boud
 20 2011-04-08 00:02:38 <bd_> bound
 21 2011-04-08 00:02:42 <gjs278> not in japan
 22 2011-04-08 00:02:55 <luke-jr> &
 23 2011-04-08 00:03:02 <gjs278> in japan the entire block chain is represented in 3 japanese characters
 24 2011-04-08 00:03:07 <bd_> I was in Japan when the earthquake happened. Don't tell me what is or is not in Japan :|
 25 2011-04-08 00:03:08 <luke-jr> with gigabit, it's ESPECIALLY CPU-bound
 26 2011-04-08 00:03:26 <luke-jr> bd_: which one?
 27 2011-04-08 00:03:58 <bd_> luke-jr: The one on the 11th. I was in Ibaraki-ken, Tsukuba-shi - magnitude 6 locally
 28 2011-04-08 00:03:59 <gasteve> the "spannig many governmental jurisdictions" point is key  ...for instance, when the US made gold ownership illegal, it didn't collapse the value of gold (because it wasn't illegal in many other countries) ...so many people just held onto their gold regardless of the US law
 29 2011-04-08 00:04:21 <bd_> Lost water, highways were destroyed, trains shut down for a few days. Fortunately the buildings weren't overly damaged, and power mostly stayed up in my area
 30 2011-04-08 00:04:48 <bd_> luke-jr: and, wimax in Japan works great, but it's 40-50mbit at most. Definitely not gigabit.
 31 2011-04-08 00:05:01 <luke-jr> bd_: WiMax lost to LTE i thought
 32 2011-04-08 00:05:11 <bd_> I dunno, I had a wimax terminal, not a LTE
 33 2011-04-08 00:05:31 <gjs278> sha256 doesn't work in japan, you have to use sha?
 34 2011-04-08 00:05:36 <bd_> even LTR has a theoretical max of 324mbit
 35 2011-04-08 00:06:07 <gjs278> ????
 36 2011-04-08 00:06:10 <bd_> LTE rather
 37 2011-04-08 00:06:39 <MagicalTux> :p
 38 2011-04-08 00:06:51 <MagicalTux> Japan is a country of contradictions
 39 2011-04-08 00:07:25 <gjs278> (~_~;)
 40 2011-04-08 00:07:29 <MagicalTux> banks got atm that close at night
 41 2011-04-08 00:07:45 <bd_> anyway, point is, Japan has great cell bandwidth in the cities, at least. But the cell phones themselves are falling behind in innovation. The felica chip in some of the newer ones is nice - it can do contactless payments for the trains etc - but google's put NFE transceivers into recent android phones after all...
 42 2011-04-08 00:08:15 <bd_> MagicalTux: The ones in 7-11 work all night.... if you use a foreign card :)
 43 2011-04-08 00:08:15 <MagicalTux> mh
 44 2011-04-08 00:08:27 <MagicalTux> we got felica chips in japanese phones for more than 5 years
 45 2011-04-08 00:08:29 <gjs278> (^o_o^) - this is a pig
 46 2011-04-08 00:09:12 <bd_> only reason they're not in phones elsewhere is because the POSes haven't really adopted contactless payments much yet
 47 2011-04-08 00:09:19 <MagicalTux> bd_, my personnal bank account allows me to withdraw 24/24 from 7-11 atms (costs money at night), my company account costs money at atm all the time, and doesn't work night/weekends
 48 2011-04-08 00:09:20 <bd_> no mass transit to drive adoption in america either
 49 2011-04-08 00:09:32 <gjs278> 24/24 is amazing
 50 2011-04-08 00:09:57 <bd_> MagicalTux: yeah, when I was there I had yuucho and joyo accounts, can't speak for other banks
 51 2011-04-08 00:10:05 <MagicalTux> in france you can use any card to withdraw from any bank's atm at any time of day or night, and you withdraw for free
 52 2011-04-08 00:10:27 <gjs278> (?_? ) ( ?_?)??????
 53 2011-04-08 00:10:37 <bd_> yeah, back in the US ATMs are 24/7 - fees depend on the issuing institution and ATM owner, not time of day, usually
 54 2011-04-08 00:11:04 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: Speaking of France...  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12983734    Are hashed passwords really outlawed in France, as slashdot and Google are claiming?
 55 2011-04-08 00:11:12 <MagicalTux> but what I like more on japanese ATM is the big "VISA" logo, and written in very small right below it "Japanese only"
 56 2011-04-08 00:11:41 <jgarzik> hashed
 57 2011-04-08 00:11:48 <gjs278> go2jail
 58 2011-04-08 00:11:48 <grbgout> you rebel
 59 2011-04-08 00:12:04 <bd_> MagicalTux: 7-11 ftw :)
 60 2011-04-08 00:12:08 <gjs278> pretty sure you just have to let them login to the account
 61 2011-04-08 00:12:12 <gjs278> which you can do without the hash
 62 2011-04-08 00:12:53 <jgarzik> "The law obliges a range of e-commerce sites, video and music services and webmail providers to keep a host of data on customers. This includes users' full names, postal addresses, telephone numbers and passwords. The data must be handed over to the authorities if demanded."
 63 2011-04-08 00:13:15 <gjs278> yeah but you're not really going to get in trouble if you send over a password hash if you still give them a way to login to the account
 64 2011-04-08 00:13:20 <jgarzik> it's data retention not "let the authorities log in"
 65 2011-04-08 00:13:24 <gasteve> there is a simple way around that law...hash the users' password on the client (web browser) it's better practice anyway
 66 2011-04-08 00:13:33 <gjs278> lol no
 67 2011-04-08 00:13:40 <bd_> jgarzik: So, a summary of a translation. I also saw retranslations on reddit which indicated you only have to preserve "information to verify passwords" or something like that, which would seem to allow hashing
 68 2011-04-08 00:13:46 <gjs278> if your db gets hacked then you're screwed
 69 2011-04-08 00:13:51 <MagicalTux> ASIC also thinks that passwords should not be collected and warned that retaining them could have security implications. <- in French law you can say "I am not retaining the password, it is technically impossible for me to hand out the password"
 70 2011-04-08 00:14:29 <Kiba> terrestial nations trying to impose laws on cyberspace
 71 2011-04-08 00:14:37 <gjs278> I'm sure they can undo the hash anyways
 72 2011-04-08 00:14:40 <jgarzik> yeah it's quite true to say "I don't have the password" when you have the hash
 73 2011-04-08 00:14:43 <gjs278> they have supercomputers doing nothing
 74 2011-04-08 00:15:21 <gasteve> really, you should hash the password on the client, then hash it again before storing it in your DB
 75 2011-04-08 00:15:40 <gjs278> well
 76 2011-04-08 00:15:49 <gjs278> you should use https for anytime the password is being sent
 77 2011-04-08 00:15:58 <gasteve> of course
 78 2011-04-08 00:16:03 <gjs278> and then you just take their raw password, give them a specific salt, and then just hash the raw
 79 2011-04-08 00:16:10 <gjs278> no point in letting the client try and hash it
 80 2011-04-08 00:16:19 <gasteve> yes, there is a point
 81 2011-04-08 00:16:28 <gjs278> what is it
 82 2011-04-08 00:16:34 <gasteve> the point is, their password is never transmitted to your server
 83 2011-04-08 00:16:49 <gjs278> if it's over https then it doesn't matter, no one can read it
 84 2011-04-08 00:17:06 <gasteve> I'm talking about this French law
 85 2011-04-08 00:17:09 <gjs278> oh ok
 86 2011-04-08 00:17:13 <gjs278> you're saying it's a workaround
 87 2011-04-08 00:17:58 <gjs278> I hate making accounts on ecommerce sites anyways
 88 2011-04-08 00:18:04 <bd_> And I'm saying all this hubaloo is based on a single summary of a translated version of the law, and nobody seems to be actually verifying it, because if you _do_ actually check the original law, it's perfectly fine to hash passwords as long as you're prepared to hand _the hash_ over when requested.
 89 2011-04-08 00:18:04 <gjs278> let me checkout with paypal and thats the end of it
 90 2011-04-08 00:18:12 <gjs278> yeah
 91 2011-04-08 00:18:12 <MagicalTux> [11:16:34] <gasteve> the point is, their password is never transmitted to your server <- who cares?
 92 2011-04-08 00:18:32 <gjs278> no MagicalTux he's saying it's a workaround for the law if they really did outlaw hashing (which they didnt)
 93 2011-04-08 00:18:39 <MagicalTux> gasteve, if it's the case, you can just hack the page to send the hash you stole from (somewhere), the hash itself has the same value as the password in that case
 94 2011-04-08 00:18:41 <gjs278> but it is a pretty clever idea
 95 2011-04-08 00:18:43 <gasteve> if you never receive the user's real password, then the only thing you can possibly store (and consequently reveal to authorities) is a hash of their real password...so, you'd not be revealing anything to authorities that would be useful in accessing any other websites the user might utilize
 96 2011-04-08 00:18:49 <MagicalTux> yep
 97 2011-04-08 00:18:52 <gjs278> nah dude, he's not talking about a security aspect
 98 2011-04-08 00:18:58 <gjs278> just a haha govt take that aspect
 99 2011-04-08 00:19:10 <MagicalTux> the law aspect is not as strong as that
100 2011-04-08 00:19:17 <MagicalTux> you just say "technically impossible" and anything is possible
101 2011-04-08 00:19:29 <gjs278> not the best excuse to try and give really
102 2011-04-08 00:19:43 <MagicalTux> gjs278, it already worked quite a few times in my case
103 2011-04-08 00:19:44 <gjs278> they'll just fine you for not keeping up with the LAW
104 2011-04-08 00:19:53 <gjs278> how could it have worked if the law was just done today
105 2011-04-08 00:19:53 <MagicalTux> gjs278, they don't
106 2011-04-08 00:20:06 <gjs278> lies give me access to your time machine
107 2011-04-08 00:20:39 <MagicalTux> that law isn't especially law
108 2011-04-08 00:20:40 <MagicalTux> the one year part is
109 2011-04-08 00:20:46 <gasteve> btw, the only passwords I ever use on any website are hashes of my real password that is only ever stored in my head...but, I'm not a typical user
110 2011-04-08 00:20:54 <gjs278> lol
111 2011-04-08 00:20:59 <gjs278> that must be fun at a friends house
112 2011-04-08 00:21:08 <gasteve> no problem
113 2011-04-08 00:21:09 <gjs278> hold on bro, I can check my email, give me a sec to find an md5 hasing service
114 2011-04-08 00:21:12 <grbgout> no friends ;)
115 2011-04-08 00:21:15 <gjs278> perfect
116 2011-04-08 00:21:16 <gasteve> hhah
117 2011-04-08 00:21:24 <grbgout> <3
118 2011-04-08 00:21:32 <MagicalTux> anyway
119 2011-04-08 00:21:35 <MagicalTux> this doesn't hold water
120 2011-04-08 00:21:56 <Kiba> soo...today, I am ending with 150 BTC pledged for my game project
121 2011-04-08 00:22:01 <MagicalTux> "my system has no password, we use certificate login"
122 2011-04-08 00:22:02 <gjs278> good enough
123 2011-04-08 00:22:08 <gjs278> lies
124 2011-04-08 00:23:36 <gasteve> so, here's what I do...I keep a website where I have profiles for ever website I use (things like the domain name, user id, another key that I use in cases where I need to change a password, etc)...I encrypt those profiles with AES 256 and can access this hashing page anywhere (even a friends house)...I enter the AES key and decrypt the profiles...then I type in a master password that is hashes together with those other inputs and gives me the
125 2011-04-08 00:24:15 <gjs278> thats dumb
126 2011-04-08 00:24:22 <gjs278> I remember my password
127 2011-04-08 00:24:26 <gjs278> and type it when needed
128 2011-04-08 00:24:39 <gasteve> so, yes, it works even at a friends house...I'm just careful not to let their browser remember the password
129 2011-04-08 00:25:13 <gjs278> the site hosting your passwords has a bit of downtime
130 2011-04-08 00:25:19 <gasteve> gjs278: so, I probably have around 200 different websites I access...are you telling me you'd just remember 200 unique 24 byte passwords?
131 2011-04-08 00:25:27 <gjs278> the french govt has a gun to your head demanding the password to your amazon account
132 2011-04-08 00:25:35 <gjs278> you say you dont remember
133 2011-04-08 00:25:37 <gjs278> now you're dead
134 2011-04-08 00:25:49 <gasteve> gjs278: I actually host it on two different sites (and, no, I'm not making this up)
135 2011-04-08 00:25:49 <gjs278> who makes 24 byte passwords
136 2011-04-08 00:26:31 <gasteve> haha, yes, I guess I am dead under that circumstance...but they won't get my password to amazon!
137 2011-04-08 00:26:49 <gjs278> yeah most accounts I don't care about either
138 2011-04-08 00:26:52 <gjs278> I'd care about
139 2011-04-08 00:26:53 <gjs278> my paypal
140 2011-04-08 00:26:55 <gjs278> bank account
141 2011-04-08 00:26:56 <gjs278> umm
142 2011-04-08 00:26:58 <gjs278> email
143 2011-04-08 00:27:00 <gjs278> that's a big one
144 2011-04-08 00:27:12 <gjs278> anything else oh no not my digg account
145 2011-04-08 00:27:25 <gasteve> yes, those are the ones I really care about, but this is easy enough to use that I use it for everything
146 2011-04-08 00:27:25 <gjs278> shit like that I might as well just make the password password
147 2011-04-08 00:27:46 <Kiba> ah
148 2011-04-08 00:27:59 <gjs278> kiba you better have something good to add after all that
149 2011-04-08 00:28:10 <gasteve> (what really ticks me off though is that some websites have stupid restrictions...like limiting passwords to 8 characters...and these are banks!!!)
150 2011-04-08 00:28:34 <gjs278> you know if any site uses crypt for their passwords they only take the first 8 characters anyways
151 2011-04-08 00:28:40 <gjs278> so your extra 16 chars go to waste
152 2011-04-08 00:30:22 <Kiba> gjs278: something good to add?
153 2011-04-08 00:30:38 <gjs278> you can't /me twice and then say ah and have nothing else to say
154 2011-04-08 00:30:56 <Kiba> I am working on getting jstet online in its incomplete form
155 2011-04-08 00:32:40 <gasteve> gjs278: why do you say that sites using crypt for passwords would only use the first 8 characters?
156 2011-04-08 00:33:21 <gjs278> let me find the article
157 2011-04-08 00:33:48 <gjs278> http://www.certpal.com/blogs/2010/05/crypt-des-and-8-character-truncated-passwords/
158 2011-04-08 00:33:53 <gasteve> (and, I think most sites would probably hash your password and utilitize the entire thing)
159 2011-04-08 00:33:53 <gjs278> crypt + des
160 2011-04-08 00:33:59 <gjs278> The problem with crypt() + Traditional DES is that it truncates the password length to 8 characters.
161 2011-04-08 00:34:19 <gasteve> bah...any decent site would be using a sha256 hash of your password for auth
162 2011-04-08 00:34:27 <gjs278> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/05/aols_password_puzzler.html
163 2011-04-08 00:34:32 <gjs278> like aol right
164 2011-04-08 00:34:38 <gjs278> oh wait, they were using the 8 truncated method lol
165 2011-04-08 00:35:01 <gasteve> well..part of the reason I go through these hoops is that I don't trust the practices of most websites
166 2011-04-08 00:35:15 <gasteve> actually, that's the whole reason ;)
167 2011-04-08 00:35:33 <gjs278> any decent site would actually just do bcrypt because it's slow to crack
168 2011-04-08 00:35:53 <gasteve> so, if one site does something stupid like store passwords in the clear...well, if a hacker hacks their site, they get access to my account on that site, but nowhere else
169 2011-04-08 00:36:13 <gjs278> yeah
170 2011-04-08 00:37:17 <gasteve> btw, I customized the code for passwordmaker.org (and found a JS AES library for storing profiles online) to put this together
171 2011-04-08 00:38:45 <gasteve> it's not as onerous as it might seem...browsers on my secure computers will cache passwords for me...and on untrusted computers, I can go to the online website to access the password generator
172 2011-04-08 00:39:43 <JFK911> how do you know the website isnt logging your input
173 2011-04-08 00:40:58 <gjs278> well of course they're logging the input
174 2011-04-08 00:42:25 <gasteve> JFK911: how would the website log my input? a virus on the computer might...but the website is my website...and the password generator works entirely in the browser (nothing transmitted to the server)
175 2011-04-08 00:43:27 <gjs278> are you on shared hosting
176 2011-04-08 00:43:44 <gasteve> but, it's conceivable that a key logger could get my password...and figure out the URL to my password generator...and they could then use that to find my passwords
177 2011-04-08 00:44:10 <gjs278> consider this: I get access to your shell account, I lookup the db of all your passes
178 2011-04-08 00:44:15 <gasteve> gjs278: no, not shared hosting
179 2011-04-08 00:44:18 <gjs278> unless you store them in a file in which case I just check there
180 2011-04-08 00:44:38 <gjs278> surely you don't have a 24byte character as your password for your shell account
181 2011-04-08 00:44:41 <gasteve> gjs278: there is no such DB that contains my passwords
182 2011-04-08 00:44:57 <gjs278> how are they stored then(don't answer this, I could be an ATTACXER)
183 2011-04-08 00:45:09 <gasteve> I don't use a shell account (and if I did, I'd use key based auth, not a password)
184 2011-04-08 00:45:20 <gjs278> so they go on your ftp
185 2011-04-08 00:45:30 <gasteve> my passwords are not stored at all ...anywhere....that's the point
186 2011-04-08 00:45:40 <gjs278> how could they not be
187 2011-04-08 00:45:48 <gjs278> if you use that website as a lookup service
188 2011-04-08 00:46:02 <JFK911> gasteve: oh its yours
189 2011-04-08 00:46:11 <JFK911> i thought you had a public website
190 2011-04-08 00:46:14 <JFK911> er
191 2011-04-08 00:46:18 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i store half of my passwords on a card in my wallet
192 2011-04-08 00:46:19 <JFK911> were using one
193 2011-04-08 00:46:44 <gasteve> I have a master password...and I hash that with a domain name, user id, another secret, a password length to yield a password used to log into a website
194 2011-04-08 00:47:10 <gjs278> ok
195 2011-04-08 00:47:13 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i use that on a bunch of sites also, it's simply sha1(domain+password)
196 2011-04-08 00:47:15 <gasteve> read passwordmaker.org it'll describe the concept to you
197 2011-04-08 00:47:16 <gjs278> so do you store the end hashes somewhere
198 2011-04-08 00:47:22 <phantomcircuit> unfortunately a lot of sites reject passwords like that
199 2011-04-08 00:47:49 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: I've not encountered any website where this is a problem
200 2011-04-08 00:48:07 <gjs278> just make your password sql injections
201 2011-04-08 00:48:31 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, twitter comes to mind
202 2011-04-08 00:48:54 <phantomcircuit> anyways i store half of important passwords on a card in my wallet
203 2011-04-08 00:48:57 <phantomcircuit> and the other half in my head
204 2011-04-08 00:49:04 <gasteve> I don't use twitter...but what's the issue?  are you telling me it won't allow a password with upper/lowercase letters and numbers?
205 2011-04-08 00:49:08 <gjs278> phantomcircuit go accept my pull request
206 2011-04-08 00:49:08 <phantomcircuit> what you know and what you have
207 2011-04-08 00:49:09 <phantomcircuit> :P
208 2011-04-08 00:49:25 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, busy with pseudo paying work
209 2011-04-08 00:49:28 <phantomcircuit> but sure why not
210 2011-04-08 00:49:32 <phantomcircuit> im pretending to work anyways
211 2011-04-08 00:49:33 <phantomcircuit> lol
212 2011-04-08 00:49:35 <gjs278> ok
213 2011-04-08 00:49:37 <gjs278> so am I
214 2011-04-08 00:49:43 <gjs278> I've been on a skype call with work for like 2 hours now
215 2011-04-08 00:49:45 <gjs278> haven't said a word
216 2011-04-08 00:49:49 <phantomcircuit> <3
217 2011-04-08 00:50:00 <gasteve> gjs278: best kind of work if you can get it ;)
218 2011-04-08 00:50:07 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, http://covertinferno.org/~phantomcircuit/password.html
219 2011-04-08 00:51:08 <gjs278> every week all I do is newsletters and encoding old crappy avis into x264 outputs
220 2011-04-08 00:53:55 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: yes, same idea...except I also have an input that is an arbitrary string (used for cases when a website forces me to change a password), and a password length (used for stupid sites that limit the password length the ridiculous small sizes) ...and I keep a profiles file encrypted on the server so that I don't have to remember all of those inputs for every website
221 2011-04-08 00:54:51 <gasteve> and some websites have quirky restrictions on the characters (so I can also specify the domain of characters to use for the generated password)
222 2011-04-08 00:55:40 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i've been tempted to include a database of password constraints for websites
223 2011-04-08 00:55:57 <phantomcircuit> but then i realize that for 99% of sites im ok using pazzword
224 2011-04-08 00:55:58 <phantomcircuit> lol
225 2011-04-08 00:57:19 <gasteve> in any case...it was out of growing frustration in remembering passwors...and growing anxiety that websites wheren't adequately protecting password (and data) that I decided this was the best course of action
226 2011-04-08 00:58:58 <gasteve> (and, if you think that's a little over the top, I should tell you my scheme for enabling my parents, inlaws, and spouse access my online assets in case of some emergency)
227 2011-04-08 00:59:04 <phantomcircuit> lol so i just installed redmine
228 2011-04-08 00:59:07 <phantomcircuit> without git support
229 2011-04-08 00:59:10 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
230 2011-04-08 00:59:44 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, the only acceptable solution for that is passwords printed out and in a safe deposit box
231 2011-04-08 01:00:03 <gasteve> ok ;)
232 2011-04-08 01:00:13 <luke-jr> jgarzik: fwiw, cpuminer fails solo mining on testnet for me :/
233 2011-04-08 01:00:34 <gasteve> so, my parents and inlaws are only somewhat technically inclined ...so keep that in mind
234 2011-04-08 01:01:11 <gjs278> cpuminer failed a lot for me on certain machines trying to compile it
235 2011-04-08 01:01:19 <gjs278> I forget what was wrong with it
236 2011-04-08 01:01:29 <gjs278> but eventually I got working binaries for it so I use those for every machine I put it on now
237 2011-04-08 01:01:46 <gjs278> it would just segfault on startup
238 2011-04-08 01:01:50 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i think they can figure out url:username:password
239 2011-04-08 01:02:33 <gasteve> I have a 24 byte code that's divided into 4 parts...my parents, my inlaws and my wife each have 2 of the 4 parts...any 2 of the 3 of them can get together and learn 3 of the 4 parts...and those 3 parts are sufficent to decode instructions on where to get the 4 part that enables them to decode complete instructions on how to access websites, wallets, gpg identities, etc
240 2011-04-08 01:02:58 <gjs278> that's retarded
241 2011-04-08 01:03:15 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, sounds like an excellent way to guarantee probate lasts forever
242 2011-04-08 01:03:23 <gasteve> and yes, they keep printed instructions in safe deposit boxes
243 2011-04-08 01:03:57 <gjs278> imagine your parents trying to convert your bitcoins to cash that would be hilarious
244 2011-04-08 01:04:18 <gasteve> part of the instructions include people the can contact that can help them with the technical aspects
245 2011-04-08 01:04:57 <gasteve> well, actually, my parents are quite technically inclined...as is my wife and her parents...so it's not as much of an issue as it would be for many people
246 2011-04-08 01:05:08 <gjs278> all of my money is in a bank... so not the biggest ordeal to get what I have
247 2011-04-08 01:05:27 <gjs278> I can't think of any websites that would matter
248 2011-04-08 01:07:25 <gasteve> I don't keep all of my wealth in the banking system
249 2011-04-08 01:07:27 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, haha that's what you think
250 2011-04-08 01:07:45 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i was effectively responsible for closing probate for my grandma's estate
251 2011-04-08 01:07:55 <phantomcircuit> getting money from the banks was basically impossible
252 2011-04-08 01:07:59 <gjs278> my dad is linked to the account, he could go there right now
253 2011-04-08 01:08:02 <gjs278> and they'd give it all to him
254 2011-04-08 01:08:09 <gjs278> he could do this while I'm alive as well (lol)
255 2011-04-08 01:08:22 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, yeah but when you die he cant
256 2011-04-08 01:08:24 <phantomcircuit> it's dumb
257 2011-04-08 01:08:41 <gjs278> actually
258 2011-04-08 01:08:41 <phantomcircuit> once the bank is made aware that he's died they're required to lock the account from all account holders
259 2011-04-08 01:08:50 <phantomcircuit> note that this includes your account if he dies
260 2011-04-08 01:08:55 <phantomcircuit> it's a massive pita
261 2011-04-08 01:09:05 <gjs278> he just won't say anything
262 2011-04-08 01:09:08 <gjs278> I'll go tell him now
263 2011-04-08 01:09:09 <phantomcircuit> yeah
264 2011-04-08 01:09:19 <gjs278> banks are pretty retarded about that though
265 2011-04-08 01:09:25 <phantomcircuit> that was our plan too unfortunately suntrust checks obituaries
266 2011-04-08 01:09:32 <gjs278> lol
267 2011-04-08 01:09:51 <gjs278> I'll tell them to not write one of those... then nobody will know. if a family member gets in trouble they can just steal my identity
268 2011-04-08 01:09:59 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: there is a financial incentive for them to check obituaries
269 2011-04-08 01:10:41 <gjs278> yeah so they can keep the money as long as possible and loan it out
270 2011-04-08 01:10:46 <gjs278> and put it in money markets
271 2011-04-08 01:11:01 <gjs278> under the guise of "protecting" the money
272 2011-04-08 01:11:09 <gasteve> well, not only that, but I imagine a significant percentage goes unclaimed
273 2011-04-08 01:11:17 <gjs278> yep
274 2011-04-08 01:11:28 <gjs278> like fry's on futurama
275 2011-04-08 01:11:30 <gjs278> he cashed in though
276 2011-04-08 01:11:38 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, at some point they have to turn it over to the state
277 2011-04-08 01:11:42 <phantomcircuit> in florida it's 1 year
278 2011-04-08 01:11:48 <gasteve> hahaha
279 2011-04-08 01:11:53 <phantomcircuit> it took about that long to get most of my grandmas money
280 2011-04-08 01:12:02 <gasteve> even more financial incentive  ...lol
281 2011-04-08 01:12:02 <phantomcircuit> it's easier to get from the state than from the banks
282 2011-04-08 01:12:13 <gasteve> the conspiracy is fully revealed ;)
283 2011-04-08 01:12:14 <gjs278> don't try and ruin that episode of futurama on me, if I ever get frozen I'm heading to my bank first thing
284 2011-04-08 01:13:40 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol
285 2011-04-08 01:13:52 <gasteve> regulations of the state force banks to monitor obituaries constantly and shut down account access immediately so the state can confiscate any unclaimed funds
286 2011-04-08 01:14:01 <gasteve> nice gigg
287 2011-04-08 01:14:09 <gjs278> ok
288 2011-04-08 01:14:11 <gjs278> in that case
289 2011-04-08 01:14:18 <gjs278> I'm writing a fake obituary
290 2011-04-08 01:14:21 <gjs278> for the next person I hate
291 2011-04-08 01:14:25 <phantomcircuit> lol
292 2011-04-08 01:14:27 <gasteve> lol
293 2011-04-08 01:14:29 <gasteve> nice
294 2011-04-08 01:14:42 <phantomcircuit> something tells me showing up to the bank and yelling would get that fixed asap
295 2011-04-08 01:14:49 <gjs278> IM ALIVE
296 2011-04-08 01:15:15 <gjs278> they'd call ghostbusters
297 2011-04-08 01:15:39 <gasteve> my bank is virtual...so where would I show up?
298 2011-04-08 01:16:04 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, you'd be screwed
299 2011-04-08 01:16:10 <phantomcircuit> lolol
300 2011-04-08 01:16:19 <gasteve> (just to prove I'm still alive)
301 2011-04-08 01:16:50 <gjs278> wow
302 2011-04-08 01:16:56 <gjs278> no way I would use a pure virtual bank
303 2011-04-08 01:17:56 <gasteve> I can't stand brick and mortar...I haven't set foot in a bank in 15 years...such a waste building all those buildings on every corner
304 2011-04-08 01:18:32 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, nah physical banks are necessary for cash deposits
305 2011-04-08 01:18:33 <gjs278> if I had a pure virtual bank my only goal would be to take the money and run after about 10 years of building up rep
306 2011-04-08 01:19:00 <phantomcircuit> the local bofa branch spends about 4 hours everyday just processing nightly deposits
307 2011-04-08 01:19:08 <phantomcircuit> you can see them in there doing it before they open up
308 2011-04-08 01:20:47 <gasteve> I deposit almost no cash (but use ATM when I do)...so it's not that much of an issue for me.
309 2011-04-08 01:21:46 <gasteve> usually, I'm taking cash out of the banking system...not putting it in ;)
310 2011-04-08 01:21:49 <phantomcircuit> yeah
311 2011-04-08 01:22:41 <gasteve> I just wish ATMs would distribute 100s instead of 20s and didn't have $1000/day limit
312 2011-04-08 01:22:50 <phantomcircuit> 1k/day?
313 2011-04-08 01:22:53 <phantomcircuit> usually it's 300
314 2011-04-08 01:23:04 <Validus> you can get it upped at the bank
315 2011-04-08 01:23:15 <Validus> my boss did that so he could over $1k a day
316 2011-04-08 01:23:23 <gasteve> my bank has $1000/day limit and I found a local ATM that will dispense up to that amount
317 2011-04-08 01:23:51 <phantomcircuit> hmm
318 2011-04-08 01:24:01 <phantomcircuit> lol
319 2011-04-08 01:24:04 <gasteve> (with gold trading close to $1500...this is actually an issue for me believe it or not)
320 2011-04-08 01:24:15 <phantomcircuit> i tried to withdraw 10k from a bofa once from a business account
321 2011-04-08 01:24:27 <Validus> ya you have to go in and talk to someone higher up usually at the bank and explain
322 2011-04-08 01:26:17 <Validus> anyone have any experience running 1080p tv's instead of a monitor? im thinking of getting a 42" 1080p lcd
323 2011-04-08 01:26:25 <Validus> you can pm me since its off topic
324 2011-04-08 01:28:12 <phantomcircuit> Validus, lol the bank literally didn't have 10k in cash on premises
325 2011-04-08 01:28:25 <Validus> smh. change banks or move to a city
326 2011-04-08 01:28:28 <phantomcircuit> i had to come back the next day
327 2011-04-08 01:28:37 <Validus> banks are required to have so much on hand and most do. i've never heard of that happening
328 2011-04-08 01:28:38 <gasteve> these things are actually kind of disturbing when you think about it...I mean, $10k is not a lot of money (think about how long you could survive on $10k)...yet, the fact that banks look at you funny when dealing in those amounts leads me to believe there aren't that many people keeping wealth outside the banking system...when things collapse...that's not going to be good
329 2011-04-08 01:28:47 <phantomcircuit> Validus, 1080p isn't very high def
330 2011-04-08 01:29:00 <Validus> ok well a monitor that can do 2560 x #### is $1k+
331 2011-04-08 01:29:04 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: well, it's decent for maybe 21" monitor
332 2011-04-08 01:29:14 <Validus> 27 inch monitor does 1920 x 1280. 1080p is 1920 x 1080
333 2011-04-08 01:29:18 <Validus> its 350
334 2011-04-08 01:29:32 <Validus> so im worried how itll show text cuz id rather get a 42 inch display lol
335 2011-04-08 01:29:37 <gasteve> I try to tell friends not to place so much trust in the little numbers they see in their web browsers
336 2011-04-08 01:29:47 <luke-jr> Validus: text is the same size regardless of resolution or monitor size
337 2011-04-08 01:29:51 <luke-jr> Validus: the problem is *quality*
338 2011-04-08 01:29:56 <Validus> tv to monitor is not the same though
339 2011-04-08 01:30:05 <luke-jr> I bet small things will be blocky
340 2011-04-08 01:30:15 <Validus> this is 50,000:1 contrast ratio (acm) i think
341 2011-04-08 01:30:18 <Validus> it does 1920 x 1080 max resolution. same as a 27 inch monitor
342 2011-04-08 01:30:21 <luke-jr> contrast ratio can't make up for poor DPI
343 2011-04-08 01:30:26 <Validus> ya i know thats what im wondering about
344 2011-04-08 01:30:47 <Validus> i know someone that uses a 56" for web browsing and games and it works fine. t hey use 2 23" screens for irc and other things
345 2011-04-08 01:31:24 <Validus> theres no mediocre in monitors at all. its 27 inch at 350+ and then to $1k+ for 30"+
346 2011-04-08 01:31:38 <Validus> i did see one 30" monitor t hat was absolute shit for specs around 400
347 2011-04-08 01:31:54 <luke-jr> Validus: 1920x1080 on 27 inch is like 82 DPI
348 2011-04-08 01:31:58 <Validus> i got 700 to spend on my display, keyboard, mouse, speakers
349 2011-04-08 01:32:12 <Validus> but im ordering a das keyboard on student special for $98 shipped
350 2011-04-08 01:32:17 <Validus> cant beat that for a mechanical keyboard
351 2011-04-08 01:32:40 <luke-jr> &
352 2011-04-08 01:32:45 <luke-jr> it's just a keyboard
353 2011-04-08 01:32:46 <Validus> normal is 130
354 2011-04-08 01:32:50 <Validus> no its not just a keyboard
355 2011-04-08 01:32:56 <Validus> if so you've never used a mechanical keyboard
356 2011-04-08 01:33:01 <luke-jr> sure I have
357 2011-04-08 01:33:04 <luke-jr> just not recently
358 2011-04-08 01:33:08 <Validus> its not some pos logitech with a screen on it hehe
359 2011-04-08 01:33:27 <Validus> i should get the blanked out one. no letters on any keys but no thatll cause problems with other people
360 2011-04-08 01:33:31 <phantomcircuit> Validus, lol
361 2011-04-08 01:33:40 <luke-jr> Validus: at that price, it had better be Dvorak
362 2011-04-08 01:33:42 <phantomcircuit> who the fuck nees letters on their keyboard
363 2011-04-08 01:33:48 <phantomcircuit> n00bs
364 2011-04-08 01:33:51 <phantomcircuit> needs
365 2011-04-08 01:33:52 <Validus> http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
366 2011-04-08 01:33:53 <Validus> i dont
367 2011-04-08 01:34:01 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you can get a $1000 kb with OLED on keys
368 2011-04-08 01:34:03 <phantomcircuit> also
369 2011-04-08 01:34:03 <Validus> most of mine rub off. i like to spell out msgs like go fuck yourself in my keyboard
370 2011-04-08 01:34:22 <luke-jr> mine are not easily rearranged :/
371 2011-04-08 01:34:25 <luke-jr> so I use stickers
372 2011-04-08 01:34:26 <luke-jr> they come off in days
373 2011-04-08 01:34:28 <Validus> oh the otpimus maximus, 113 oleds that display custom icons and such?
374 2011-04-08 01:34:31 <luke-jr> yeah
375 2011-04-08 01:34:32 <Validus> thats 1500, out of stock to
376 2011-04-08 01:34:35 <Validus> thinkgeek has it
377 2011-04-08 01:34:37 <luke-jr> XD
378 2011-04-08 01:34:44 <phantomcircuit> lol i've got so many machines up now with distcc that the shell scripts are the bottleneck
379 2011-04-08 01:34:45 <phantomcircuit> baller
380 2011-04-08 01:34:45 <Validus> i didnt realize it had 113 oled's on it lol
381 2011-04-08 01:34:57 <Validus> but i wouldnt ever pay that
382 2011-04-08 01:35:00 <Validus> 100 is pushing it
383 2011-04-08 01:35:06 <luke-jr> me either
384 2011-04-08 01:35:08 <Validus> but 98 from 139 ill do
385 2011-04-08 01:35:20 <luke-jr> what would be nice is a handheld PC with eInk keys
386 2011-04-08 01:35:30 <Validus> im still torn on the display :/
387 2011-04-08 01:35:43 <luke-jr> Validus: I just bought a new one
388 2011-04-08 01:35:45 <phantomcircuit> Validus, is this for a desk?
389 2011-04-08 01:35:47 <luke-jr> $170 IIRC
390 2011-04-08 01:35:48 <Validus> i coudl go cheap as shit and do 3 21.5"'s but thats gonna cause problems with the edges
391 2011-04-08 01:35:50 <luke-jr> 21" 1080p
392 2011-04-08 01:35:50 <Validus> yes
393 2011-04-08 01:35:55 <phantomcircuit> lol
394 2011-04-08 01:36:00 <Validus> i want big. i have a 20" now .. its tiny
395 2011-04-08 01:36:02 <luke-jr> why do you need such big crap?
396 2011-04-08 01:36:07 <phantomcircuit> be a man, buy 3 displays and cut the bevel off
397 2011-04-08 01:36:09 <phantomcircuit> bezel
398 2011-04-08 01:36:12 <luke-jr> pfft
399 2011-04-08 01:36:13 <Validus> im not doing that
400 2011-04-08 01:36:20 <Validus> i want at least 27+ lol
401 2011-04-08 01:36:22 <luke-jr> my eyes are lazy. 21" is enough
402 2011-04-08 01:36:30 <Validus> or id go with multi screens at lower maybe depending on price
403 2011-04-08 01:36:48 <Validus> i gotta get an aftermarket cooler for it to and make sure itll fit in the case with the fan
404 2011-04-08 01:36:57 <phantomcircuit> lol this fftw library is huge
405 2011-04-08 01:37:01 <Validus> itll be the weekend before i order it. im just waiting on my phone to go off letting me know my deposit is there
406 2011-04-08 01:37:10 <phantomcircuit> i've got a P4 a celeron and an i3 compiling this
407 2011-04-08 01:37:14 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: so use ftgl?
408 2011-04-08 01:37:21 <Validus> my p4 just died a few months ago :/
409 2011-04-08 01:37:26 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, no choice it's a package dependency
410 2011-04-08 01:37:28 <Validus> blew a capacitor i think in the mobo. i could never figure otu why
411 2011-04-08 01:37:29 <Validus> out*
412 2011-04-08 01:37:55 <luke-jr> Validus: my Athlon64 was working fine when I replaced it this Jan
413 2011-04-08 01:38:07 <luke-jr> actually, my mom is using it now
414 2011-04-08 01:38:11 <Validus> u know whats funny i went to cyberpowerpc and with a shitter case they were within 100 of newegg lol
415 2011-04-08 01:38:20 <Validus> just for shits and gigles to compare
416 2011-04-08 01:38:22 <phantomcircuit> i've got a dell from 2001 that's been on pretty much for the past 4 years
417 2011-04-08 01:38:26 <Validus> i like to see how much companies mark up their prices