1 2011-04-09 00:00:50 <Blitzboom> wait, i knew such a flashgame that consisted only of clicking a button
  2 2011-04-09 00:01:16 <Blitzboom> and youd receive a line of text every x clicks
  3 2011-04-09 00:02:50 <mizerydearia> grbgout, I have access since I have access to the vps.
  4 2011-04-09 00:03:26 <mizerydearia> But otherwise I don't store the ip addresses per post or anything like that.
  5 2011-04-09 00:06:30 <mizerydearia> hmm, so, that mmo game is basically stripping all the fantasy and creativity from the mmo game.  How can I create a user-generated content site that strips all the fantasy and creativity the user-generated content site.
  6 2011-04-09 00:06:57 <mizerydearia> or, a user-generated content site without the creativity of user-generated content
  7 2011-04-09 00:07:15 <mizerydearia> e.g. the content is not important, but merely the act of a user generating
  8 2011-04-09 00:07:53 <grbgout> that sounds like http://fxnet.co.cc/ to me
  9 2011-04-09 00:08:03 <mizerydearia> hmm
 10 2011-04-09 00:08:13 <mizerydearia> But users should be able to generate more than one instance
 11 2011-04-09 00:08:23 <mizerydearia> e.g. participating more than once
 12 2011-04-09 00:08:35 <grbgout> oh, so, like, mining.bitcoin.cz?
 13 2011-04-09 00:08:39 <mizerydearia> hmm
 14 2011-04-09 00:08:48 <grbgout> or deepbit.net
 15 2011-04-09 00:08:49 <grbgout> or ...
 16 2011-04-09 00:08:55 <grbgout> :)
 17 2011-04-09 00:09:22 <mizerydearia> Except the proof of work should be without computer assistance
 18 2011-04-09 00:10:13 <mizerydearia> I would rather provide ability for humans to establish profits at their physical and mental efforts.
 19 2011-04-09 00:10:23 <mizerydearia> or, profits isn't even important
 20 2011-04-09 00:10:32 <mizerydearia> merely spending is okay too
 21 2011-04-09 00:10:53 <mizerydearia> e.g. a click may cost 0.00000001 witcoins.
 22 2011-04-09 00:11:11 <mizerydearia> s/w/b/
 23 2011-04-09 00:11:46 <mizerydearia> Actually
 24 2011-04-09 00:12:00 <mizerydearia> It may be fun to recreate http://fxnet.co.cc
 25 2011-04-09 00:12:19 <mizerydearia> but instead of requiring 1 bitcoin, allow for 0.00000001 bitcoins.
 26 2011-04-09 00:12:24 <mizerydearia> or any amount even
 27 2011-04-09 00:25:46 <mizerydearia> Soon there will be ~10,000 registered bitcoin forum accounts.  If default cost for posting/replying/voting is 0.01, then for 10,000 users to post, reply or vote at least once, 100 bitcoins would be needed to allow for everyone to participate at least once.
 28 2011-04-09 00:26:36 <mizerydearia> Would it make sense to provide some kind of effort to establish everyone to have opportunity to participate in the site immediately or would it be more suitable to allow for gradual userbase to exist?
 29 2011-04-09 00:26:49 <mizerydearia> s/exist/grow/
 30 2011-04-09 00:28:59 <Spenvo> miz, hm, (my opinion) you need to target needs of users, and build some promotional landing pages.  you're already advertising through google, you need to have a more targetted approach
 31 2011-04-09 00:29:10 <mizerydearia> heh, I knew you were monitoring channel from beyond ^_^
 32 2011-04-09 00:29:28 <Spenvo> yep
 33 2011-04-09 00:30:40 <mizerydearia> hmm, "needs of users"
 34 2011-04-09 00:30:50 <mizerydearia> food, water, shelter, pleasure ^_^
 35 2011-04-09 00:36:10 <Spenvo> my parting thought:  witcoin is a platform with potential that can be leveraged.  but only if you understand the use-cases from the users' POV.  for me, comments on my blog on witcoin make sense, so moving forward, I'll try that, but this is just one of many use cases
 36 2011-04-09 00:36:33 <kiba> we want comment!
 37 2011-04-09 00:36:36 <kiba> but the longer you take
 38 2011-04-09 00:36:54 <kiba> the more opportunity you lost
 39 2011-04-09 00:37:17 <kiba> I am delaying adding commenting to bitcoinweekly as much as possible, mizerydearia
 40 2011-04-09 00:37:37 <mizerydearia> ooh
 41 2011-04-09 00:38:04 <Spenvo> mm, embeddable comments aren't the minimum viable product.  i think i can have comments in a post on witcoin as is.  but a service that operates on my blog would be nice eventually
 42 2011-04-09 00:38:36 <kiba> Spenvo: it does takes a lot of work
 43 2011-04-09 00:38:50 <kiba> but a minimum viable product just mean the least feature to accomplish the job
 44 2011-04-09 00:39:09 <Spenvo> one last point, your multi-log-in implementation is great for a comments system i think
 45 2011-04-09 00:39:39 <Spenvo> you're more than half the way there, mizery.
 46 2011-04-09 00:39:48 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0f576402221f spesmilo/main.py: Bugfix: first-run argument inconsistency http://tinyurl.com/67dprtn
 47 2011-04-09 00:49:37 <da2ce7> G'day
 48 2011-04-09 00:50:15 <Keefe> does the rpc call getnewaddress remove the address from the keypool, so i can be sure it won't be used afterward for change or anything?
 49 2011-04-09 00:50:35 <theymos> Yes.
 50 2011-04-09 00:51:53 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rd98beea / rpc.cpp :
 51 2011-04-09 00:54:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that doesn't fix it
 52 2011-04-09 00:55:09 <luke-jr> the longer timezone names are not compliant with the RFC
 53 2011-04-09 00:56:45 <luke-jr> the RFC allows UT(C?), GMT, EST/EDT, CST/CDT, MST/MDT, PST/PDT, [ZAMNY], and +/-HHMM
 54 2011-04-09 01:00:44 <luke-jr> jgarzik: in fact, "implementations SHOULD use numeric timezones instead of timezone names"
 55 2011-04-09 01:01:41 <luke-jr> so really, a better fix would be to use %z instead of %Z
 56 2011-04-09 01:09:44 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr rfc1123Time_localefix * r747053415aba bitcoind-personal/rpc.cpp: Bugfix: Use "%z" for timezone rather than "%Z" to more correctly comply with the RFC http://tinyurl.com/6h6few8
 57 2011-04-09 01:24:54 <Keefe> what's the easiest way to get the pubkey for a given address in my wallet?
 58 2011-04-09 01:25:30 <theymos> Look it up on Bitcoin Block Explorer. If it was ever used to send bitcoins, its public key will be listed.
 59 2011-04-09 01:26:14 <theymos> I can't think of any way to do it otherwise (without modifying Bitcoin).
 60 2011-04-09 01:26:50 <Keefe> i need to do this for addresses that are not used yet. i'm looking at gavin's bitcointools...
 61 2011-04-09 01:27:21 <theymos> It's possible bitcointools can do it. You probably have to modify it so that it doesn't shorten the keys, though.
 62 2011-04-09 01:28:22 <theymos> Last time I checked, the shortening was done in a small file called "util" or something.
 63 2011-04-09 01:29:21 <Keefe> i've messed with that before, to get full hex for something else
 64 2011-04-09 01:31:01 <theymos> Maybe this is easier: https://github.com/dirtyfilthy/bc_key
 65 2011-04-09 01:34:34 <bitcoiner> someone tell me whats going with this 9547c845509c9d1cfa4fe970f1efa12ab1fbb89ea6563b1cd4882a61b173efcd
 66 2011-04-09 01:34:57 <kiba> theymos: hmm, people are using your blockexplorer as a way to prove bitcoin transaction
 67 2011-04-09 01:34:58 <Keefe> what is it?
 68 2011-04-09 01:35:12 <kiba> ever thought of streamlining the process?
 69 2011-04-09 01:35:25 <theymos> bitcoiner: I don't see anything wrong with it.
 70 2011-04-09 01:35:27 <bitcoiner> http://www.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ the last transaction on there is  mine and stuck
 71 2011-04-09 01:35:29 <theymos> kiba: How?
 72 2011-04-09 01:35:50 <bitcoiner> 0 confirm and only got 1 btc at mtgox instead of 4
 73 2011-04-09 01:35:58 <theymos> bitcoiner: It's very large. That's why it's taking so long.
 74 2011-04-09 01:36:16 <kiba> theymos: I don't know...maybe you could have an application where you paste your bitcoin address in
 75 2011-04-09 01:36:19 <kiba> and other details
 76 2011-04-09 01:36:21 <kiba> like
 77 2011-04-09 01:36:23 <kiba> payment for blah
 78 2011-04-09 01:36:30 <bitcoiner> mmm how long it can take ?
 79 2011-04-09 01:37:11 <theymos> Its priority is probably quite low. Might take days.
 80 2011-04-09 01:37:32 <bitcoiner> will I get the remaining 3 btc on mtgox when it get confirm ?
 81 2011-04-09 01:37:43 <luke-jr> bitcoiner: you'll get all 4 then
 82 2011-04-09 01:37:55 <luke-jr> the 1 BTC there now is unrelated
 83 2011-04-09 01:37:56 <Keefe> you don't have part of it in mtgox
 84 2011-04-09 01:38:18 <bitcoiner> well it shoes in my account
 85 2011-04-09 01:38:25 <Keefe> something else then
 86 2011-04-09 01:38:30 <Keefe> bitcoin txns are all or nothing
 87 2011-04-09 01:38:54 <Keefe> i mean, mtgox isn't going to give you partial credit
 88 2011-04-09 01:39:02 <luke-jr> [13:32:47] <ljrbot> TX 9547c845509c9d1cfa4fe970f1efa12ab1fbb89ea6563b1cd4882a61b173efcd: 18Et25yrJmuUZv2cJKUmnSyMMSW8z23hEv 4.00 BTC
 89 2011-04-09 01:39:05 <luke-jr> [13:33:03] <ljrbot> TX 5b1f87be93b00e67e5f649261a891e92dbcde1da28b07a649677da9d4feb24b5: 18Et25yrJmuUZv2cJKUmnSyMMSW8z23hEv 1.00 BTC
 90 2011-04-09 01:39:06 <theymos> kiba: Maybe I'll do something like that eventually. First I want to do 0-confirmation transactions. Then I'm going to: clean up my code, fix some annoyances that I've noticed, allow people to associate their identities with addresses, and implement some other frequently-requested features (like tree diagrams for addresses/transactions).
 91 2011-04-09 01:39:08 <luke-jr> bitcoiner: you sent 1 BTC and 4 BTC
 92 2011-04-09 01:39:20 <bitcoiner> yes because I was supposed to send 5 btc
 93 2011-04-09 01:39:25 <bitcoiner> the first got in
 94 2011-04-09 01:39:30 <bitcoiner> then I got only 1 btc
 95 2011-04-09 01:41:26 <Keefe> mm, that 1 BTC is somewhat large also, but i guess small enough to pass quicker: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/5b1f87be93b00e67e5f649261a891e92dbcde1da28b07a649677da9d4feb24b5
 96 2011-04-09 01:41:45 <Keefe> bitcoiner: why do you have such fragmented coins?
 97 2011-04-09 01:41:52 <bitcoiner> pool ?
 98 2011-04-09 01:41:54 <luke-jr> bitcoiner: you have too much change
 99 2011-04-09 01:41:57 <theymos> kiba: That's planned. Anyone will be able to create "rumors" on any address, and you'll also be able to associate your verified identities with addresses. Verified identities might also be shown on transaction pages, and at least these (maybe also rumors) will be searchable.
100 2011-04-09 01:41:58 <Keefe> have a pool paying out too frequently?
101 2011-04-09 01:42:02 <luke-jr> bitcoiner: tell the pool not to send it until you get 1 BTC
102 2011-04-09 01:42:06 <bitcoiner> yeah i just did that
103 2011-04-09 01:42:54 <bitcoiner> thanks nywayz its just 3 btc
104 2011-04-09 01:59:02 <Keefe> bitcoiner: it's 4
105 2011-04-09 01:59:16 <bitcoiner> yes but mtgox gave me 1 already
106 2011-04-09 01:59:21 <Keefe> 1 of 5
107 2011-04-09 01:59:26 <bitcoiner> no
108 2011-04-09 01:59:33 <bitcoiner> 2 out of 5
109 2011-04-09 01:59:41 <bitcoiner> 1 out of 1 and 1 out of 4
110 2011-04-09 01:59:43 <Keefe> you sent two txns, 1 btc and 4 btc
111 2011-04-09 01:59:46 <Keefe> no way
112 2011-04-09 01:59:50 <bitcoiner> yessss
113 2011-04-09 02:00:09 <bitcoiner> look
114 2011-04-09 02:00:31 <bitcoiner> 04/08/11 19:36
115 2011-04-09 02:00:39 <bitcoiner> 04/08/11 19:34
116 2011-04-09 02:00:43 <bitcoiner> 04/08/11 09:57
117 2011-04-09 02:00:44 <bitcoiner> im supposed to have 20 btc
118 2011-04-09 02:01:19 <CIA-89> bitcoin: tcatm master * rd12ea88 / (init.cpp ui.cpp):
119 2011-04-09 02:01:23 <CIA-89> bitcoin: disable -daemon on windows; bitcoind forks only with -daemon set
120 2011-04-09 02:01:27 <CIA-89> bitcoin: [added setsid() call to ui.cpp, to regain consistency with init.cpp -jgarzik] - http://bit.ly/hDCh7z
121 2011-04-09 02:01:29 <Keefe> now this is really not making sense. only a single 1 BTC txn has been received by 18Et25yrJmuUZv2cJKUmnSyMMSW8z23hEv
122 2011-04-09 02:01:30 <bitcoiner> these are my last 3 transaction 5 btc 1 btc and 4 btc
123 2011-04-09 02:01:37 <Keefe> why would mtgox creit you for that twice?
124 2011-04-09 02:01:53 <bitcoiner> I dont think they credited it
125 2011-04-09 02:02:11 <bitcoiner> I think it is 1 btc of my 4 btc transaction ?
126 2011-04-09 02:02:17 <Keefe> can't be
127 2011-04-09 02:02:21 <Keefe> they don't do that
128 2011-04-09 02:02:31 <bitcoiner> mmm
129 2011-04-09 02:02:44 <Keefe> why would they? if all 4 is not considered good yet, why give you any of it?
130 2011-04-09 02:02:59 <Keefe> but i can't explain why you got two 1's
131 2011-04-09 02:03:08 <bitcoiner> it has something to do I was supposed to send 5  and I sent 1 then 4 ?
132 2011-04-09 02:03:54 <Keefe> bug, to your advantage?
133 2011-04-09 02:04:13 <bitcoiner> I didnt thot I got 1 free btc
134 2011-04-09 02:04:34 <bitcoiner> and stil not sure thats why I was wasking bout this transaction
135 2011-04-09 02:04:39 <Keefe> ping me when that pending 4 btc txn gets confirmed
136 2011-04-09 02:05:11 <bitcoiner> yeah np but this is weird
137 2011-04-09 02:05:56 <Keefe> theymos: it just dawned on me that the output of a coinbase txn isn't the same sctructure as the output of a standard txn
138 2011-04-09 02:06:25 <Keefe> a standard txn can target an addr without knowing the pubkey
139 2011-04-09 02:06:49 <Keefe> a coinbase txn usually doesn't, though i suppose i could mod bitcoin to do so?
140 2011-04-09 02:08:01 <bitcoiner> it has something to do with all those little ammount I collected ? lol
141 2011-04-09 02:13:48 <mrb_> MagicalTux: the all time graph on mtgox.com has been stale for a while. the time axis stops at March 19.
142 2011-04-09 02:16:45 <theymos> Keefe: Right. That's a transaction to a full public key instead of a hash. This format is also used for IP address transfers. The generation output can be anything, though, and you can even use multiple outputs.
143 2011-04-09 02:17:11 <Keefe> it would just stand out as unusual
144 2011-04-09 02:20:18 <theymos> Puddinpop's pool paid out directly to the miners. That was pretty cool. Every miner would get "Generated (0.07 matures in x)" or whatever.
145 2011-04-09 02:22:09 <Keefe> can you easily find me one of those on BE?
146 2011-04-09 02:23:55 <Keefe> < jgarzik> tcatm: yep.  CReserveKey is a public key.  It's easy to pass a single public key to CreateNewBlock()
147 2011-04-09 02:24:18 <Keefe> looks to me like that's only an output parameter?
148 2011-04-09 02:25:50 <theymos> Keefe: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/80853f00959702a11c2be709c6f4f3ffeec4e0bab3a2050a2eb9593e253cd3b6
149 2011-04-09 02:27:08 <Keefe> theymos: thanks!
150 2011-04-09 02:28:31 <theymos> Unfortunately, bitcoind can't see these outputs, so users weren't able to use MyBitcoin, etc. to receive these pool payments.
151 2011-04-09 02:29:27 <Keefe> if bitcoind doesn't see it, how could they be spent at all?
152 2011-04-09 02:29:59 <Keefe> is there a reason for that first output being a pubkey?
153 2011-04-09 02:30:29 <theymos> It's rounding error that went back to the pool. It could have gone to an address.
154 2011-04-09 02:31:05 <theymos> It goes into the main wallet, but commands like "getreceivedbyaddress" exclude generation outputs.
155 2011-04-09 02:31:15 <Keefe> ok
156 2011-04-09 02:32:08 <Keefe> i'm working on an idea for selling uncirculated coins
157 2011-04-09 02:32:48 <Keefe> the buyer would give me a new address (getnewaddress so it's sure to not be used before or after), and my miners would use that as the coinbase txn output until the first block is found
158 2011-04-09 02:34:49 <Keefe> ideally, it would be an output to the pubkey for their address, to avoid the complications you described, and to not stand out in the block chain as unusual
159 2011-04-09 02:35:29 <Keefe> but it will be too much trouble to get my customers to run an additional binary or compile source to obtain the pubkey
160 2011-04-09 02:37:19 <theymos> Doing address transactions in generations wouldn't be bad if you weren't the only one doing them.
161 2011-04-09 02:46:17 <EvanR> kiba: where do i send you globulation mone
162 2011-04-09 02:46:19 <EvanR> y
163 2011-04-09 02:48:32 <mizerydearia> In considering 'rolling out' 3rd party comment system for other sites to embed comments on their site using witcoin, which seems more likely: a site having comments spanning across several categories, each post/entry (on the 3rd party site) perhaps a different category or all posts/entries showing in a single category on witcoin?
164 2011-04-09 02:50:59 <kiba> EvanR: You just pledge some bitcoin
165 2011-04-09 02:51:04 <EvanR> oh
166 2011-04-09 02:51:08 <kiba> and send me money later
167 2011-04-09 02:51:15 <EvanR> done
168 2011-04-09 02:52:32 <kiba> EvanR: you do know that it's going to be hard for me to get retail
169 2011-04-09 02:53:06 <EvanR> why?
170 2011-04-09 02:53:25 <EvanR> box art?
171 2011-04-09 02:53:37 <EvanR> windows support?
172 2011-04-09 02:53:54 <kiba> EvanR: It's a browser game, not a desktop game
173 2011-04-09 02:54:00 <kiba> but it's bleeding edge
174 2011-04-09 02:54:21 <EvanR> the main method to get the game is to browse to a link and not pay?
175 2011-04-09 02:54:40 <kiba> not quite
176 2011-04-09 02:54:49 <kiba> it's a micropayment game
177 2011-04-09 02:54:57 <EvanR> oh
178 2011-04-09 02:55:04 <[Tycho]> Do you have screenshot ?
179 2011-04-09 02:55:22 <kiba> No, but I have screenshot of my previous game that I am working on
180 2011-04-09 02:55:34 <EvanR> then you can sell a box with '10 free micropayments' which is a code you can enter in at the site
181 2011-04-09 02:55:47 <[Tycho]> Give me a link to gallery :)
182 2011-04-09 02:56:17 <kiba> well
183 2011-04-09 02:56:21 <kiba> I can give you a link to the game
184 2011-04-09 02:56:26 <kiba> but then I have to start up the server
185 2011-04-09 02:56:59 <[Tycho]> No, i'm talking about previous one.
186 2011-04-09 02:58:07 <kiba> [Tycho]: I meant that
187 2011-04-09 02:58:27 <kiba> I have an actual working implementation that's a bit buggy
188 2011-04-09 03:05:44 <Keefe> seems dirtyfilthy's bc_key doesn't handle testnet correctly?
189 2011-04-09 03:05:55 <[Tycho]> But you said that you have a screenshot.
190 2011-04-09 03:05:57 <Keefe> it thinks all the keys in my testnet wallet start with 1
191 2011-04-09 03:06:19 <[Tycho]> Or it's completely offline ?
192 2011-04-09 03:07:06 <theymos> Keefe: It'll be a pretty simple change to the code to fix that. You just need to change the address version to 111 (decimal). You could also use my online tools to convert from one version to the other: http://blockexplorer.com/q
193 2011-04-09 03:08:27 <Keefe> do the keys in a wallet specify their version, so theoretically bc_key should be able to detect that and display properly?
194 2011-04-09 03:10:01 <theymos> No. Maybe testnet should put some marker in the wallet so this can be detected.
195 2011-04-09 03:10:39 <Keefe> ok, i'll just edit line 162 as you suggested
196 2011-04-09 03:17:22 <Keefe> that worked
197 2011-04-09 06:28:10 <jgarzik> heh: "So let's start: who is interested to sell Bitcoins at $2/BTC? And how many?"
198 2011-04-09 06:43:27 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
199 2011-04-09 06:43:28 <gribble> 117462
200 2011-04-09 06:43:43 <sipa> jgarzik: wth?
201 2011-04-09 06:44:15 <jgarzik> sipa: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5613.0
202 2011-04-09 06:46:37 <sacarlson> jgarzik: $2/btc  I have 5 btc to sell
203 2011-04-09 06:47:15 <sacarlson> jgarzik: but you should go to #bitcoin-otc to get a better price
204 2011-04-09 06:50:18 <[Tycho]> sacarlson, that guy is talking about 200 000 - 400 000 BTC. 5 BTC won't really help :)
205 2011-04-09 06:51:44 <sacarlson> [Tycho]: oh ok well I know someone that is selling 2000 btc I think there is a big buyer looking to buy 100,000 usd worth on bitcoin-otc
206 2011-04-09 06:57:29 <sacarlson> that's one of the faults I seem to see in this system is it seems it will never have enuf liquidity with the max quantity it has. as compared to gold that has 10 billion ounces with grouth of 50 mil ounces per year and it has a value of over $1300 .  so if this market was to grow the value per btc would get too big
207 2011-04-09 06:58:26 <sacarlson> or would that mater since you could generate .00000001 transactions?
208 2011-04-09 06:58:33 <mtrlt> it wouldn't matter
209 2011-04-09 06:58:43 <gjs278> eventually, .01 bitcoins could be worth $1
210 2011-04-09 06:59:31 <sacarlson> gjs278: yes or .01 could be worth $100 and that's the smalist transaction?  it just might get too big and you would need another linked coin for smaller transactions
211 2011-04-09 06:59:46 <gjs278> the smallest is like .0000000001 or something
212 2011-04-09 06:59:48 <gjs278> so it doesnt matter
213 2011-04-09 07:00:10 <gjs278> .01 is just an example of what we could expect
214 2011-04-09 07:00:20 <sipa> 0.00000001
215 2011-04-09 07:00:26 <gjs278> yeah there you go
216 2011-04-09 07:00:35 <sacarlson> gjs278: no I have found at bellow .01 or slightly smaller there is a fee that would negate the movement of any value
217 2011-04-09 07:00:36 <mtrlt> 10 nanobitcoins :P
218 2011-04-09 07:00:38 <sipa> the current version of the client limits it to 0.01, but that will change
219 2011-04-09 07:00:48 <gjs278> you dont pay the fee
220 2011-04-09 07:00:57 <gjs278> just let it run without the transaction
221 2011-04-09 07:01:12 <sipa> the protocol works fine up to 0.00000001, and in the long term fees will be unavoidable anyway
222 2011-04-09 07:01:25 <sacarlson> gjs278: I tried to send .021 today and it failed for me
223 2011-04-09 07:01:28 <gjs278> I'll wait my whole life if it means keeping .01 bitcoins
224 2011-04-09 07:01:33 <sipa> yes the current client doesn't allow you to
225 2011-04-09 07:01:52 <gjs278> why couldn't he send .021 coins?
226 2011-04-09 07:01:52 <sipa> but that's just a temporary measure to prevent "transaction spam"
227 2011-04-09 07:02:02 <gjs278> that's 2 cents, it's above .01
228 2011-04-09 07:02:14 <gjs278> is it because of his 1 at the end
229 2011-04-09 07:02:29 <sipa> it also has limited precision current, but that'll change in the next version already
230 2011-04-09 07:02:33 <sipa> +ly
231 2011-04-09 07:02:50 <gjs278> sacarlson try sending .02 in that case
232 2011-04-09 07:03:09 <sacarlson> gjs278: I did end up sending .02 with success
233 2011-04-09 07:03:35 <gjs278> cool
234 2011-04-09 07:03:36 <sipa> as i said, all these things are either problems with the current implementation or the currently implemented policy
235 2011-04-09 07:03:42 <sipa> *policy
236 2011-04-09 07:04:04 <gjs278> right now sending .021 is pretty pointless when you figure our current value, but it will be fixed in the future
237 2011-04-09 07:04:08 <sipa> and have nothing to do with the protocol, which neither forces a fee, nor has any minimum-size for transactions
238 2011-04-09 07:04:16 <sacarlson> sipa: policy that runs on my running version or all the network?
239 2011-04-09 07:04:35 <[Tycho]> You can send 0.021 using command-line interface
240 2011-04-09 07:04:40 <sipa> some miners for example will accept any transaction without fee
241 2011-04-09 07:04:50 <sacarlson> [Tycho]: oh ok cool
242 2011-04-09 07:05:01 <sipa> and indeed, the command-line interface does not have the precision problem the gui has
243 2011-04-09 07:05:26 <sipa> but the client will currently not allow you to send anything below 0.01 without a fee
244 2011-04-09 07:05:38 <gjs278> can you send 1 coin without a fee
245 2011-04-09 07:05:47 <gjs278> how long will it take
246 2011-04-09 07:06:02 <sipa> depends on the relative network speed of those feeless-accepting miners
247 2011-04-09 07:06:12 <gjs278> lets say I did it right now
248 2011-04-09 07:06:14 <gjs278> how long
249 2011-04-09 07:06:16 <fimp> do you know who's behind http://www.bitcoinme.com/ ? it says that transactions will always be free
250 2011-04-09 07:06:43 <sacarlson> sipa: I have plans to setup a pokerth link to a pot holder that will use very small numbers,  I had hoped for super small chips of .00001 btc  today I played a .04 btc pot with 6000 total chips
251 2011-04-09 07:06:53 <gjs278> because I tried to send one coin like two hours ago using the gui and it seems to have no confirmations yet
252 2011-04-09 07:08:10 <sacarlson> gjs278:  my averge for transactions of on averge about .02 btc is about 40 minits
253 2011-04-09 07:08:18 <gjs278> lol
254 2011-04-09 07:09:16 <gjs278> do I have to leave bitcoin running or can I close it after hitting send
255 2011-04-09 07:10:50 <topi`> bitcoin.app runs a process called "spindump" at the startup. what is this used for? it eats some % of cpu.
256 2011-04-09 07:14:15 <sacarlson> sipa: is there a standard fee or can I set mine to be very small so I would get more transactions and collect more fee's?
257 2011-04-09 07:15:11 <sacarlson> I mined for two days untill I found out that it would probly take 12 years to get my first block
258 2011-04-09 07:16:59 <[Tycho]> sacarlson, you should use pools for mining. And buy a GPU.
259 2011-04-09 07:17:43 <sacarlson> gjs278: I would think after you send and the reciever see's the transaction you can shutdown your side but the reciever might want to stay on to wait for his confermations
260 2011-04-09 07:18:25 <sacarlson> [Tycho]: I'm poor can't aford a new gpu,  I got a nvidia that seems to be not suported by cuda
261 2011-04-09 07:19:00 <topi`> old gpu's won't do...
262 2011-04-09 07:19:30 <sacarlson> topi`: ` I love my gpu works very well in linux
263 2011-04-09 07:19:42 <topi`> sacarlson: good for ya :)
264 2011-04-09 07:20:20 <topi`> sacarlson: anyways, you might want to calculate the cost of mining per kilowatt on your hardware and current difficulty and then make decisions about whether or not it would be better to just trade dollars for BTC :)
265 2011-04-09 07:20:48 <topi`> I exposed myself to learn to use a bit of javascript, and whipped up this kind of calculator yesterday:
266 2011-04-09 07:20:50 <sacarlson> my system need to run 24/7 anyway not sure how much more it would cost for more cpu cycles
267 2011-04-09 07:20:51 <topi`> http://uni.kaverit.org/%7etopi/calculate.html
268 2011-04-09 07:21:24 <topi`> sacarlson: you can check that using a watt meter :)
269 2011-04-09 07:21:44 <topi`> but most CPU's idle at around 1 watt and consume >50 watts while doing active work
270 2011-04-09 07:21:53 <sacarlson> topi`: well at 12 years it wasn't even worth the bandwidth it takes
271 2011-04-09 07:22:39 <sacarlson> topi`: so I hope to win it in poker gambling
272 2011-04-09 07:23:03 <topi`> :)
273 2011-04-09 07:24:00 <topi`> my little bro has a recent GPU so I pay him part of the electricity to get some bitcoins :)
274 2011-04-09 07:53:10 <Keefe> bitcoiner: how's your mtgox account look now? the 4 btc txn should be processed by now
275 2011-04-09 08:42:36 <sacarlson> I had a thought that might be a stupid idea but what if you add sub coins that are like bonds,  the bond is sold and broken into coins that can be sold as many times to many people before the bond is due
276 2011-04-09 08:43:23 <sacarlson> sold or traded for goods and services
277 2011-04-09 08:44:22 <sacarlson> the coin group could be a bond or maybe an equity or thing like a car or land
278 2011-04-09 08:45:06 <sipa> sacarlson: the fee is determined by the sender (and/or his client), and the miner either accept or doesn't accept the transaction
279 2011-04-09 08:45:12 <sacarlson> it might fit into the #bitcoin-otc market
280 2011-04-09 08:45:18 <sipa> but the miner can't determine the fee itself
281 2011-04-09 08:46:08 <sacarlson> sipa: oh ok so an outbid sender will get first dibs on the network action
282 2011-04-09 08:46:30 <sipa> ?
283 2011-04-09 08:46:32 <sacarlson> sipa: or I should say the highist bidder sender gets service
284 2011-04-09 08:46:45 <sipa> more or less, but there is no limit
285 2011-04-09 08:47:06 <sipa> to a miner, there is no cost for adding another transaction to a block
286 2011-04-09 08:47:37 <sipa> so if some miner doesn't accept a tx, some other miner may
287 2011-04-09 08:49:46 <sacarlson> sipa: as far as my bond idea seems all that would be needed to add would be a code of what the owner owns, instead of just a count of how many btc
288 2011-04-09 08:50:54 <sipa> the network does *not* store how many btc someone has
289 2011-04-09 08:51:25 <sacarlson> sipa: well something you hold must keep track of it
290 2011-04-09 08:51:30 <sipa> there are simply coins, each with an address on them of who is allowed to spend it
291 2011-04-09 08:52:30 <sipa> and if you own that address (and can prove it through a signature with the corresponding private key), you're allowed to take such a coin, combine it with other coins, and break it up again in other coins, possibly addressed to someone else
292 2011-04-09 08:52:49 <sacarlson> sipa: well what would stop from adding to it and address with quantity of coins and a code for what coin or thing it is?
293 2011-04-09 08:53:52 <sacarlson> sipa: and yet keep it compatible with the original concept
294 2011-04-09 08:55:14 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
295 2011-04-09 08:55:15 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.785,"low":0.7309,"vol":12573,"buy":0.74,"sell":0.7699,"last":0.7401}}
296 2011-04-09 08:55:48 <sacarlson> JFK911: I paid .75 today for 10 btc
297 2011-04-09 08:55:56 <gjs278> how
298 2011-04-09 08:56:10 <gjs278> you mean 75 cents total?
299 2011-04-09 08:56:11 <sacarlson> gjs278: I bought it with paypal
300 2011-04-09 08:56:12 <gjs278> or each
301 2011-04-09 08:56:21 <sacarlson> oh no .75 each
302 2011-04-09 08:56:23 <gjs278> lol
303 2011-04-09 08:56:24 <gjs278> ok
304 2011-04-09 08:56:49 <JFK911> last week some lucky sobs bought btc in the .50 range
305 2011-04-09 08:57:15 <sacarlson> gjs278: I was just comparing with what I saw the ticker say that jfk911 displayed
306 2011-04-09 09:04:03 <gjs278> JFK911 yeah, the lucky sob was named "mtgox"
307 2011-04-09 09:27:39 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
308 2011-04-09 09:27:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117481 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1462 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 87207.89782533
309 2011-04-09 09:51:36 <Xunie> Argh mateys, what be goin' on in Bitcoin land today.
310 2011-04-09 09:56:03 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 400000
311 2011-04-09 09:56:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1 week, 3 days, 5 hours, 36 minutes, and 36 seconds
312 2011-04-09 09:56:26 <sirius-m> Trends slightly up after a slight decline. MtGox has full euro bank automation which is great for the economy. New website.
313 2011-04-09 10:23:04 <topi`> know what. we ought to persuade JULIAN ASSANGE to do some promotion of bitcoin for us :)
314 2011-04-09 10:23:10 <topi`> that would get people's attention :)
315 2011-04-09 10:24:30 <sipa> that issue's been brought up a few times
316 2011-04-09 10:24:49 <sipa> personally, i don't like associating bitcoin with any political side
317 2011-04-09 10:25:09 <xelister> topi`: usafags may then be "after bitcoin" (or rather, their government)
318 2011-04-09 10:25:49 <sipa> bitcoin is a simply a very useful way of transferring and storing value
319 2011-04-09 10:25:50 <xelister> even here, ##linux main operator, PsiJack is against wiki-leaks and says Assange should be prosecuted/arrested/etc. Well, PsiJack is ex-military. Nice op for ##linux eh?
320 2011-04-09 10:31:11 <topi`> xeli: well, it's an old fact that there are different kinds of ppl among the hacker archetype. liberals, conservatives, all sorts.
321 2011-04-09 10:31:52 <topi`> not talking about political things here
322 2011-04-09 10:35:16 <xelister> but opensource obviously is about more freedom, by definition
323 2011-04-09 10:36:25 <topi`> maybe some ppl think that freedom is good as long as it's not undermining their principles or whatnot
324 2011-04-09 10:36:38 <topi`> pick'n'choose
325 2011-04-09 10:42:43 <xelister> heh http://i.imgur.com/JScb8.jpg
326 2011-04-09 10:43:33 <dinox> hi, need help with compiling puddinpop's remoteserver
327 2011-04-09 10:43:34 <dinox> http://pastebin.com/qzLSQQqF
328 2011-04-09 10:43:44 <dinox> its on os x btw
329 2011-04-09 10:44:21 <dinox> cuda is disabled in options but it doesnt care about that...
330 2011-04-09 11:04:31 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 64000
331 2011-04-09 11:04:37 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 64000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 9 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 3 minutes, and 48 seconds
332 2011-04-09 11:04:40 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 64000
333 2011-04-09 11:04:42 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 64000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.781726621174 BTC per day and 0.0325719425489 BTC per hour.
334 2011-04-09 11:46:01 <idnar> xelister: free software is about freedom, open source is a different matter
335 2011-04-09 11:46:37 <JFK911> open source!  The freedom to ignore QA obligations.
336 2011-04-09 11:46:45 <idnar> haha
337 2011-04-09 11:46:49 <JFK911> The freedom to release without getting signoffs!
338 2011-04-09 11:47:04 <JFK911> bitcoin is coming along great
339 2011-04-09 11:47:08 <JFK911> i have to say that
340 2011-04-09 11:47:26 <idnar> you have to? is somebody holding a gun to your head? >:)
341 2011-04-09 11:47:45 <JFK911> Yeah, my conscience.
342 2011-04-09 11:47:55 <JFK911> I can't rip on bitcoin for being FOSS when it doesnt have any serious known issues.
343 2011-04-09 11:49:47 <idnar> how about the issues with amounts <0.01?
344 2011-04-09 11:51:15 <idnar> anyhow, your complaints are more about non-commercial software than free software ;)
345 2011-04-09 11:51:23 <JFK911> i consider that a user error since the lack of implementation is known
346 2011-04-09 11:51:29 <luke-jr> idnar++
347 2011-04-09 11:52:01 <luke-jr> idnar: on the other hand, topi` has triggered me to seriously reconsider whether I support free software, or perhaps I ought to only support open source <.<
348 2011-04-09 11:52:40 <idnar> or Canonical
349 2011-04-09 11:52:47 <JFK911> bad example of QA
350 2011-04-09 11:54:29 <idnar> what it comes down to is that if you're just hacking on some software for yourself, you probably only care about yourself; when you have paying users (or users you indirectly profit from), you tend to pay more attention to their concerns
351 2011-04-09 11:54:46 <idnar> that doesn't necessarily lead to caring more about releasing quality software, but it does at least require somewhat of a shift in viewpoint
352 2011-04-09 11:55:01 <JFK911> right, i think there has to be a market for people other than myself tho
353 2011-04-09 11:55:11 <JFK911> when you are developing technical and specialized applications thats okay
354 2011-04-09 11:55:18 <idnar> but the important thing to note is that whether you're releasing the source code or not has little or no impact on any of that
355 2011-04-09 11:55:23 <JFK911> when you are developing a "desktop," then hahahaha
356 2011-04-09 11:56:08 <idnar> despite RMS's deranged ranting, the average user wants somebody else to take care of the details for them, whether it's Debian or Canonical or Apple or whoever else
357 2011-04-09 11:56:24 <idnar> and I don't have any expectations that that's suddenly going to change any time soon
358 2011-04-09 11:56:28 <JFK911> debian's proven to be untrustworthy with details http://wiki.debian.org/SSLkeys
359 2011-04-09 11:56:34 <JFK911> created a hassle for the whole world
360 2011-04-09 11:56:43 <JFK911> because of stupidity
361 2011-04-09 11:56:53 <idnar> "With enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow" is a nice little quip, but in reality, it only works if you have a capable brain sitting behind those eyeballs
362 2011-04-09 11:57:04 <idnar> and software design involves a heck of a lot more than just eyeballing bugs
363 2011-04-09 11:57:05 <JFK911> thanks mark shuttleworth for propagating this debian "oops"
364 2011-04-09 11:57:27 <luke-jr> idnar: but proprietary software always has *less* eyes
365 2011-04-09 11:57:34 <idnar> as you increase the scope of the issue you're dealing with, the number of eyeballs involved actually makes things worse; you can't design by committee
366 2011-04-09 11:57:44 <idnar> luke-jr: indeed
367 2011-04-09 11:57:55 <JFK911> fewer eyes that are attached to smarter brains = win
368 2011-04-09 11:57:57 <luke-jr> at least with free software, anyone who cares can hire any third party to review the code
369 2011-04-09 11:58:02 <idnar> luke-jr: but ultimately, as a developer the reason why *I* care about free software is that I can use *my* eyeballs
370 2011-04-09 11:58:17 <luke-jr> idnar: yep, and the original developers KNOW you can
371 2011-04-09 11:58:22 <JFK911> thousands of eyes attached to laypeople = FAQ gets long and progress slows
372 2011-04-09 11:58:24 <idnar> luke-jr: if there's a bug in the Linux kernel or something that breaks my software, I do have the option to go hunt it down and fix it myself
373 2011-04-09 11:58:26 <luke-jr> so they're not going to put anything malicious in
374 2011-04-09 11:58:45 <xelister> idnar: open source is freedom in area of code reverseengeenering and usually more or less in area of patents and copyrights
375 2011-04-09 11:58:54 <idnar> luke-jr: if there's a bug in the Microsoft kernel, I can theoretically hunt it down and binary-patch it myself, but that's heading beyond the realms of sanity; so my only realistic option is to beg Microsoft to fix it
376 2011-04-09 11:59:30 <idnar> and unless I'm one of a handful of extremely large players (which I'm not), they're probably not going to pay much attention to me
377 2011-04-09 11:59:46 <JFK911> Well there's the question of "what's a defect"
378 2011-04-09 12:00:00 <idnar> but now we start heading into issues of how a free software project is actually run
379 2011-04-09 12:00:09 <xelister> yea, and freedom to change the code
380 2011-04-09 12:00:15 <JFK911> a genuine defect would get more attention than just you
381 2011-04-09 12:00:18 <JFK911> sometimes perceived defects are user error
382 2011-04-09 12:00:21 <idnar> for example, if I'm writing something based on Android, I can grab the source code and fix some bug myself
383 2011-04-09 12:00:34 <idnar> but now I want to get the fix into the main Android distribution... that's not so easy
384 2011-04-09 12:00:49 <idnar> the software may be "free software" by some definitions, but it's not a free software *project*
385 2011-04-09 12:01:24 <idnar> because development is still locked up inside a walled citadel
386 2011-04-09 12:01:28 <JFK911> if an app developer hits a corner case maybe he should deal with it in his app
387 2011-04-09 12:01:51 <JFK911> instead of jumping to this 'this is broken' conclusion which could mean 'ms did it silly and i dont understand how because no rtfm'
388 2011-04-09 12:02:13 <JFK911> people like to think 'its broken if it doesnt work the same way this other thing i saw before'
389 2011-04-09 12:02:24 <idnar> JFK911: well, since I'm talking about a hypothetical defect, let's assume it's a real defect, not just me being a bad programmer
390 2011-04-09 12:03:07 <JFK911> ms fixes lots of defects
391 2011-04-09 12:03:13 <JFK911> check out what's coming on tuesday
392 2011-04-09 12:03:23 <JFK911> im sure some of them have been a while in coming tho
393 2011-04-09 12:03:26 <idnar> sure, but there are many more defects they don't fix
394 2011-04-09 12:03:57 <idnar> I don't even think it's "wrong" that perhaps they care about other defects but not about the one that matters to me
395 2011-04-09 12:04:09 <JFK911> there could be library bugs that i dont know much about because im not a windoze dev
396 2011-04-09 12:04:23 <luke-jr> xelister: reverse engineering is fair use
397 2011-04-09 12:04:26 <idnar> it still affects me though, so *I* care about it; but with MS software, I don't really have any recourse
398 2011-04-09 12:05:36 <JFK911> having to chase a defect is going to cost you either way
399 2011-04-09 12:06:15 <idnar> JFK911: I just don't like being in a situation where I don't have any recourse at all
400 2011-04-09 12:06:50 <idnar> it might not be easy to track down the bug in my ethernet driver that causes it to OOPS when I send a certain sequence of bytes over a TCP connection, but at least it's within the realm of reasonable possibility
401 2011-04-09 12:07:01 <idnar> (well, maybe a stupid example, but whatever)
402 2011-04-09 12:07:28 <JFK911> that sounds like a linux problem.  windows would OOPS if you disconnected the NIC while the machine was sleeping.
403 2011-04-09 12:07:32 <idnar> I don't even have to do it myself, I could pay somebody else to do it
404 2011-04-09 12:07:52 <JFK911> is that a defect?  maybe.  its the only time i have had windows crash in years and years
405 2011-04-09 12:08:00 <JFK911> but i know not to do that
406 2011-04-09 12:08:39 <idnar> another advantage of having access to the source code is that it makes it easier to figure out if some behaviour is actually a bug, or just confusing intended behaviour
407 2011-04-09 12:10:17 <idnar> I remember spending hours black-box reverse-engineering DirectX error codes, because the documentation was hugely inaccurate; it would have been a lot simpler if I could have just consulted the implementation directly
408 2011-04-09 12:10:40 <idnar> and in most cases, if there was an actual "bug" anywhere, it was just in the documentation; but still...
409 2011-04-09 12:11:44 <kiba> yay!
410 2011-04-09 12:11:53 <kiba> I raised 260 BTC out of 1200 BTC so far
411 2011-04-09 12:12:21 <idnar> I guess what it comes down to is that as a programmer, what I do is read and write source code; so I like having *all* of the source code at my disposal for reading and writing purposes
412 2011-04-09 12:13:39 <xelister> kiba: whare are you finidng the investors?
413 2011-04-09 12:14:33 <kiba> investors?
414 2011-04-09 12:14:36 <kiba> what invenstors?
415 2011-04-09 12:14:46 <kiba> I have customers
416 2011-04-09 12:14:47 <kiba> not investors
417 2011-04-09 12:14:57 <kiba> or more like...patrons of the art
418 2011-04-09 12:20:06 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 150000
419 2011-04-09 12:20:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 150000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1.83217176838 BTC per day and 0.076340490349 BTC per hour.
420 2011-04-09 12:20:17 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 150000
421 2011-04-09 12:20:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 150000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 3 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 57 minutes, and 37 seconds
422 2011-04-09 13:17:44 <bitcoiner> keefe they owe me 3 btc
423 2011-04-09 13:36:02 <cosurgi> dang, one of my GPUs went nuts. Fan speed can't go higher than 85%, temp keeps between 91 - 95 C
424 2011-04-09 13:36:16 <bitcoiner> not good
425 2011-04-09 13:36:33 <cosurgi> all 7 other GPUs stay at nice 80 C and fan speed 100%
426 2011-04-09 13:36:49 <bitcoiner> maybe clean the fan
427 2011-04-09 13:36:49 <cosurgi> I have no idea what happened. I have already disabled atideamon
428 2011-04-09 13:37:01 <cosurgi> hmmm
429 2011-04-09 13:37:18 <bitcoiner> I know mine got cooler when I removed dust
430 2011-04-09 13:37:20 <cosurgi> right now I can't reach it - it's 15km away. I'll see it on monday
431 2011-04-09 13:37:25 <bitcoiner> lol
432 2011-04-09 13:37:54 <bitcoiner> I was wondering if a cpu or gpu can catch on fire by itself
433 2011-04-09 13:38:10 <cosurgi> but the server room has air conditioning and the air stays rather clean, so I don't think this could be dust....
434 2011-04-09 13:38:38 <Diablo-D3> er
435 2011-04-09 13:38:51 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: got any idea?
436 2011-04-09 13:38:58 <cosurgi> I can show you rrd graphs if you want
437 2011-04-09 13:38:58 <Diablo-D3> whats the command to disable crossfire? ati-config --init --devices all -f?
438 2011-04-09 13:39:14 <cosurgi> wasn't that something about -cf off ?
439 2011-04-09 13:39:18 <Diablo-D3> er aticonfig
440 2011-04-09 13:39:24 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: no, -cf does nothing
441 2011-04-09 13:39:42 <Diablo-D3> --adapters=all
442 2011-04-09 13:40:19 <Diablo-D3> aticonfig --initial --adapter=all -f
443 2011-04-09 13:41:10 <cosurgi> aticonfig --initial -f --adapter=all
444 2011-04-09 13:42:49 <cosurgi> I wonder if maybe that one GPU isn't getting enough power. It was working for months though...
445 2011-04-09 13:43:36 <Diablo-D3> its possible
446 2011-04-09 13:44:48 <cosurgi> https://sites.google.com/site/cosurgi/
447 2011-04-09 13:44:59 <cosurgi> do you see graphs, or did I mess something?
448 2011-04-09 13:45:39 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: what issue are you having exactly?
449 2011-04-09 13:45:43 <cosurgi> it is: 1) temperature 24h, 48h, 2weeks. then 2) miner_1, miner_2, miner_3
450 2011-04-09 13:45:53 <cosurgi> the temperature on miner_3
451 2011-04-09 13:45:53 <Diablo-D3> I only see one graph
452 2011-04-09 13:45:57 <cosurgi> on 1st GPU
453 2011-04-09 13:46:36 <cosurgi> hmm. so I messed something, try refreshing?
454 2011-04-09 13:47:07 <cosurgi> hmm, hold on.
455 2011-04-09 13:54:34 <cosurgi> ok..
456 2011-04-09 13:54:40 <cosurgi> I uploaded all images again.
457 2011-04-09 13:54:43 <cosurgi> now it should work
458 2011-04-09 13:56:41 <cosurgi> one GPU on miner_3 is all messed up, for 12 hours, so far.
459 2011-04-09 13:56:46 <cosurgi> Do you see the graphs?
460 2011-04-09 13:57:17 <Diablo-D3> now I do
461 2011-04-09 13:57:23 <cosurgi> cool.
462 2011-04-09 13:57:31 <cosurgi> sorry about language it's mixed polish/english
463 2011-04-09 13:57:32 <Diablo-D3> man twtf temps
464 2011-04-09 13:57:38 <Diablo-D3> whats the one that goes apeshit there
465 2011-04-09 13:58:01 <Diablo-D3> because anything over 85c is bad
466 2011-04-09 13:58:51 <cosurgi> it's an 5850 if I remember correctly.
467 2011-04-09 13:58:57 <cosurgi> just started behaving bad
468 2011-04-09 13:59:40 <cosurgi> I forgot how I could check the model...
469 2011-04-09 13:59:43 <cosurgi> Adapter 0 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  Sensor 0: Temperature - 93.50 C
470 2011-04-09 13:59:50 <Diablo-D3> yeah, thats waaaay too high
471 2011-04-09 14:00:19 <cosurgi> I could even stop using it for a while
472 2011-04-09 14:00:34 <cosurgi> but I don't know how to tell you miner to use only two GPUs instead of all three
473 2011-04-09 14:00:43 <Diablo-D3> use --devices.
474 2011-04-09 14:01:04 <cosurgi> --devices what?
475 2011-04-09 14:01:12 <cosurgi> bad one is 0
476 2011-04-09 14:01:24 <cosurgi> so --devices 1 2
477 2011-04-09 14:01:26 <cosurgi> ?
478 2011-04-09 14:02:18 <Diablo-D3> possibly
479 2011-04-09 14:02:36 <Diablo-D3> and you need a comma I think
480 2011-04-09 14:02:41 <cosurgi> I'll try
481 2011-04-09 14:03:07 <cosurgi> [4/9/11 6:02:47 PM] Started
482 2011-04-09 14:03:08 <cosurgi> [4/9/11 6:02:47 PM] Connecting to: http://178.79.147.99:8332/
483 2011-04-09 14:03:12 <cosurgi> [4/9/11 6:02:50 PM] Added Cypress (#1) (18 CU, local work size of 64)
484 2011-04-09 14:03:13 <cosurgi> [4/9/11 6:02:56 PM] Added Cypress (#2) (20 CU, local work size of 64)
485 2011-04-09 14:06:30 <cosurgi> ouch, it has to be  --devices 2,3
486 2011-04-09 14:06:36 <cosurgi> it counts from 1 apparently
487 2011-04-09 14:06:51 <cosurgi> [4/9/11 6:06:18 PM] Started
488 2011-04-09 14:06:52 <cosurgi> [4/9/11 6:06:18 PM] Connecting to: http://178.79.147.99:8332/
489 2011-04-09 14:06:52 <Diablo-D3> orly
490 2011-04-09 14:07:04 <Diablo-D3> erm
491 2011-04-09 14:07:07 <Diablo-D3> if it counted from 1
492 2011-04-09 14:07:12 <Diablo-D3> that wouldnt have worked to begin with
493 2011-04-09 14:07:32 <cosurgi> yeah, it is counting from 1. See what I pasted
494 2011-04-09 14:07:47 <cosurgi> the "18 CU" is the one that is going apeshit.
495 2011-04-09 14:08:08 <Diablo-D3> no I mean
496 2011-04-09 14:08:13 <Diablo-D3> oh whatever.
497 2011-04-09 14:53:46 <cosurgi> is this one good?  http://img13.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/15/45/12/00/1545120027_2
498 2011-04-09 14:54:06 <cosurgi> http://img13.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/15/45/12/00/1545120027_4
499 2011-04-09 14:54:27 <cosurgi> guy is sellingit with "water block" whatever it means. Is water cooling useful for us?
500 2011-04-09 14:54:52 <cosurgi> http://allegro.pl/his-hd5970-blokwodny-xspc-gratisy-5970-jedyna-i1545120027.html
501 2011-04-09 14:55:12 <cosurgi> isn't cheap, but he writes, he can sell it also without water cooling for 1550 PLN which isn't expensive
502 2011-04-09 14:59:28 <taco_the_paco> how would i tell if the linux version of bitcoin is working or not? i have 0 connections / 0 blocks
503 2011-04-09 15:01:52 <ducki2p> taco_the_paco: check your logs in ~/.bitcoin/
504 2011-04-09 15:01:55 <ducki2p> maybe they give a hint of what is going on
505 2011-04-09 15:02:43 <ducki2p> debug.log most likely
506 2011-04-09 15:02:43 <taco_the_paco> mm which file would i look at
507 2011-04-09 16:30:40 <Kiba> hozer: anyway, the inability of firefox and opera to use websocket is a big problem in my eyes. But there's a solution
508 2011-04-09 16:30:47 <hozer> yeah
509 2011-04-09 16:30:58 <Kiba> well, in the node.js world
510 2011-04-09 16:33:06 <Kiba> AFS?
511 2011-04-09 16:33:12 <hozer> OpenAFS.org
512 2011-04-09 16:33:21 <jgarzik> hozer: AFS is still in use, somewhere other than MIT?  Wow :)
513 2011-04-09 16:33:28 <hozer> hah
514 2011-04-09 16:33:39 <Kiba> jgarzik: have you considered pledging or not already?
515 2011-04-09 16:33:46 <hozer> yes, MIT, Iowa State, and Goldman Sachs
516 2011-04-09 16:34:48 <hozer> AFS & MIT Project Athena is where everyone got the idea for cloud computing
517 2011-04-09 16:34:57 <jgarzik> hozer: hah, not really
518 2011-04-09 16:35:07 <hozer> sit down at any workstation on campus, and you get your 'cloud' environment
519 2011-04-09 16:35:30 <hozer> the problem is PC's came along and Transarc/IBM never released a decent MacOS & Windows AFS client
520 2011-04-09 16:36:10 <hozer> Well, I'm going to have my own little filesystem-based cloud computing fantasy here ;)
521 2011-04-09 16:36:48 <hozer> so here's the thing.. I went through this phase where I thought 'AFS, why run this old crap'
522 2011-04-09 16:37:15 <hozer> and the more I tried out distributed filesytems (or not having distributed filesystems), the more I realized that old working code was better than new academic or commercial idea of the day
523 2011-04-09 16:39:53 <jgarzik> hozer: did you try the latest Ceph?
524 2011-04-09 16:39:57 <Kiba> anyway, no chromium for hozer?
525 2011-04-09 16:40:23 <hozer> Unble to load pjs sketch files: game.pde ==> No content
526 2011-04-09 16:40:30 <jgarzik> hozer: at my day job we all dislike OpenAFS because the code is so bad
527 2011-04-09 16:40:43 <jgarzik> hozer: but Big Customers pay us to support and fix it, so...
528 2011-04-09 16:41:04 <hozer> jgarzik: yeah.. is there any distributed filesystem with good code?
529 2011-04-09 16:41:10 <jgarzik> hozer: Ceph :)
530 2011-04-09 16:41:29 <jgarzik> hozer: ioremap.net stuff
531 2011-04-09 16:41:35 <Kiba> so no chromium for hozer mean no pledge increase
532 2011-04-09 16:41:58 <hozer> Kiba: what the heck is that error message?
533 2011-04-09 16:42:39 <Kiba> what error message?
534 2011-04-09 16:42:48 <Kiba> oh
535 2011-04-09 16:43:06 <Kiba> game.pde is where all my code is
536 2011-04-09 16:43:10 <Kiba> it should be loaded
537 2011-04-09 16:43:23 <hozer> yeah, it got to a screen with firefox
538 2011-04-09 16:43:24 <Kiba> I have no problem with my chromium
539 2011-04-09 16:43:30 <hozer> what os
540 2011-04-09 16:43:41 <Kiba> archlinux
541 2011-04-09 16:43:54 <Kiba> even on firefox, I have no problem
542 2011-04-09 16:43:59 <Kiba> what version are you running?
543 2011-04-09 16:44:10 <Kiba> well no problem with loading game.pde
544 2011-04-09 16:44:50 <hozer> 6.0.4.472.63~r59945-5 Chromium browser
545 2011-04-09 16:45:15 <hozer> what firefox
546 2011-04-09 16:46:05 <hozer> kiba: welcome to the wonderful world of not-so-portable 'portable' code
547 2011-04-09 16:47:38 <Kiba> hozer: my chromium is 6.0.648.204
548 2011-04-09 16:48:15 <hozer> got something like virtualbox installed?
549 2011-04-09 16:48:30 <Kiba> no
550 2011-04-09 16:49:46 <Kiba> well
551 2011-04-09 16:49:55 <Kiba> I don't know how to solve your problem
552 2011-04-09 16:51:35 <Kiba> hozer: what's your operating system? Do I have take into consideration your filesystem?
553 2011-04-09 16:52:23 <hozer> that should not matter
554 2011-04-09 16:52:35 <Kiba> quite honestly, I don't know how to fix this
555 2011-04-09 16:52:37 <Kiba> it loads for me
556 2011-04-09 16:52:53 <hozer> let me check ubuntu
557 2011-04-09 16:53:00 <hozer> on my laptop, with no funky filesystems
558 2011-04-09 16:53:19 <Kiba> how can I, a lowly javascript programmer fix funky filesystem bug?
559 2011-04-09 16:55:11 <hozer> same problem on ubuntu.. let's debug this on pm..
560 2011-04-09 16:55:23 <Kiba> did you...
561 2011-04-09 16:55:28 <Kiba> ok..
562 2011-04-09 17:21:53 <hozer> Omnifarious: you around?
563 2011-04-09 17:22:59 <Omnifarious> More or less. :-)
564 2011-04-09 17:23:07 <Omnifarious> Being a pain in the Pyhton channel.
565 2011-04-09 17:23:21 <Omnifarious> Because Python lacks an ordered data structure.
566 2011-04-09 17:23:26 <hozer> hah
567 2011-04-09 17:23:51 <witten> Omnifarious: you mean a list?
568 2011-04-09 17:25:30 <bitcoiner> I just cleaned my pc and gpu and temp decrease by 15C
569 2011-04-09 17:25:42 <xelister> bitcoiner: lol
570 2011-04-09 17:25:55 <bitcoiner> and fan is going at 15% less
571 2011-04-09 17:26:02 <bitcoiner> damn dust hey
572 2011-04-09 17:26:37 <Omnifarious> witten: I mean one that's 'key ordered'.
573 2011-04-09 17:26:56 <Omnifarious> i.e. kept in sorted order
574 2011-04-09 17:27:09 <witten> Omnifarious: http://docs.python.org/library/heapq.html ?
575 2011-04-09 17:27:14 <Kiba> well
576 2011-04-09 17:27:31 <Kiba> I spent a lot of time on sales work and not enough on coding work...
577 2011-04-09 17:27:53 <Omnifarious> witten: That keeps things in heap order.
578 2011-04-09 17:28:09 <Omnifarious> And I need to search and find the immediately previous and immediately following element.
579 2011-04-09 17:28:44 <witten> Omnifarious: list of tuples? :)
580 2011-04-09 17:29:39 <witten> Omnifarious: http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.OrderedDict
581 2011-04-09 17:30:00 <Kiba> anyway
582 2011-04-09 17:30:07 <Kiba> time for me to scram for food!
583 2011-04-09 17:30:13 <Kiba> bye bye!
584 2011-04-09 17:30:19 <Omnifarious> witten: Well, that keeps things in the order in which they were inserted.
585 2011-04-09 17:30:23 <Omnifarious> Which is great for caches and LRU lists.
586 2011-04-09 17:31:09 <jgarzik> Omnifarious: python can't do that out of the box?  that's disappointing.
587 2011-04-09 17:31:56 <hozer> well, I'm going to guess it *can* do it, but not efficiently like Omnifarious probably wants ;)
588 2011-04-09 17:32:15 <jgarzik> sure it -can-...  I can code up a btree ADT in python
589 2011-04-09 17:32:40 <jgarzik> and I'm sure that's been done before by many others
590 2011-04-09 17:32:59 <Omnifarious> Exactly.
591 2011-04-09 17:33:03 <jgarzik> it's disappointing that the standard python library does not have some btree-alike.
592 2011-04-09 17:33:46 <Omnifarious> It is disappointing. Though not too surprising. I suspect if they had one at the start evrybody would've stupidly used it instead of a hash table.
593 2011-04-09 17:34:42 <jrabbit> jgarzik: not in colelctions?
594 2011-04-09 17:35:10 <jrabbit> if you find a good pythonic implementation it could go in collections
595 2011-04-09 17:35:23 <jgarzik> jrabbit: not shown at http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html anyway
596 2011-04-09 17:37:05 <jgarzik> http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.OrderedDict
597 2011-04-09 17:37:31 <jgarzik> that shows a recipe where the program manually re-sorts, depending on OrderedDict's property of retaining its order
598 2011-04-09 17:38:01 <jgarzik> much less efficient than a data structure like btree, which simply includes a specific ordering as one of its core properties
599 2011-04-09 17:38:14 <jgarzik> Omnifarious: so, give 'em hell
600 2011-04-09 17:38:34 <jgarzik> Omnifarious: tell them to fix the fscking GIL too
601 2011-04-09 17:38:56 <Omnifarious> jgarzik: *laugh* I might.
602 2011-04-09 17:39:06 <Omnifarious> The GIL is a really hard problem to solve.
603 2011-04-09 17:39:09 <Omnifarious> Unfortunately. :-(
604 2011-04-09 17:44:04 <aaa3> im still stuck at 117518 blocks wtf
605 2011-04-09 17:47:52 <theymos> How many connections do you have?
606 2011-04-09 17:48:12 <agorist> like 1-3
607 2011-04-09 17:48:18 <agorist> i got 0 for some reason now
608 2011-04-09 17:48:25 <agorist> but ive been stuck on  117518 blocks for hours
609 2011-04-09 17:48:29 <agorist> 1 conn now
610 2011-04-09 17:48:36 <bitcoiner> restart bitcoin sometimes it work
611 2011-04-09 17:48:41 <agorist> i did
612 2011-04-09 17:48:44 <agorist> restarted computer too
613 2011-04-09 17:48:53 <luke-jr> anyone want to translate Spesmilo into their language(s)?
614 2011-04-09 17:49:03 <bitcoiner> what is spesmilo
615 2011-04-09 17:49:11 <theymos> agorist: Are you using MS Security Essentials?
616 2011-04-09 17:49:17 <agorist> nope
617 2011-04-09 17:49:19 <luke-jr> bitcoiner: Bitcoin client
618 2011-04-09 17:49:23 <agorist> the problem started like this morning
619 2011-04-09 17:50:12 <theymos> agorist: Try starting Bitcoin with -addnode=99.27.237.13
620 2011-04-09 17:50:15 <luke-jr> so far it supports English, American, Dutch, and Esperanto
621 2011-04-09 17:51:39 <bitcoiner> I can translate in french
622 2011-04-09 17:51:57 <[Tycho]> Oh, esperanto is still alive ?
623 2011-04-09 17:52:01 <luke-jr> bitcoiner: PM me your email and I'll send strings?
624 2011-04-09 17:52:11 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: Lojban hasn't even overtaken it yet!
625 2011-04-09 17:53:18 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: want to translate to Lojban?
626 2011-04-09 17:53:31 <[Tycho]> Why ?
627 2011-04-09 17:53:42 <luke-jr> &
628 2011-04-09 17:55:05 <agorist> man wtf still at 117518 blocks
629 2011-04-09 17:55:12 <agorist> how long should it take to get to the actual number
630 2011-04-09 17:55:38 <mtrlt> not that long, that's for sure
631 2011-04-09 17:55:39 <agorist> how many blocks are there solved ?
632 2011-04-09 17:55:46 <mtrlt> 117533 now
633 2011-04-09 17:55:46 <theymos> Did you try addnode connecting to someone?
634 2011-04-09 17:55:58 <agorist> i tried the ip you listed..
635 2011-04-09 17:56:07 <theymos> Probably a firewall.
636 2011-04-09 17:56:31 <agorist> i have windows firewall, but always had it and problem started this morning
637 2011-04-09 17:56:38 <agorist> i got bitcoin as exception in win firewall
638 2011-04-09 17:57:18 <theymos> Post the last 1000 lines of debug.log somewhere.
639 2011-04-09 17:58:36 <agorist> where is debug.log
640 2011-04-09 17:59:03 <theymos> In the data directory, by wallet.dat. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
641 2011-04-09 17:59:46 <agorist> /j #agorist to see!
642 2011-04-09 18:02:53 <theymos> I guess you should post it to pastebin...
643 2011-04-09 18:03:55 <agorist> bleh
644 2011-04-09 18:04:52 <agorist> MainFrameRepaint
645 2011-04-09 18:04:54 <agorist> connected
646 2011-04-09 18:04:54 <agorist> trying connection  lastseen=-1.1hrs lasttry=-361772.1hrs
647 2011-04-09 18:04:58 <agorist> over and over again
648 2011-04-09 18:05:27 <theymos> It's definitely some firewall-type thing blocking oubound Bitcoin connections.
649 2011-04-09 18:09:09 <aaa3> socket no message in first 60 seconds, 0 1
650 2011-04-09 18:09:13 <aaa3> keep on getting that
651 2011-04-09 18:10:32 <agorist> could be my internet..
652 2011-04-09 18:10:38 <agorist> I keep on disconnecting from irc..
653 2011-04-09 18:11:09 <taco_the_paco> * agorist has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
654 2011-04-09 18:19:44 <aaa3> asdf
655 2011-04-09 18:23:43 <robblesz> One thing I don't understand about poold.py is: who gets credit for generated blocks? The default account on the backend bitcoind server?
656 2011-04-09 18:24:32 <hozer> question: Does mtgox use a persistant address for adding BTC?
657 2011-04-09 18:24:49 <tcatm> hozer: no
658 2011-04-09 18:24:55 <tcatm> robblesz: yep
659 2011-04-09 18:25:14 <robblesz> tcatm: okay thanks. That's what I thought
660 2011-04-09 18:25:44 <hozer> what happens if I send say 25BTC, and then use the same address to send another 25BTC
661 2011-04-09 18:26:49 <agorist> yay
662 2011-04-09 18:26:59 <agorist> restarted modem and all is fine
663 2011-04-09 18:27:32 <tcatm> hozer: no idea. If they don't show up, email mtgox.
664 2011-04-09 18:28:21 <agorist> is it me or mtgox programming is horrible
665 2011-04-09 18:29:52 <bitcoiner> it will get rewritten i heard
666 2011-04-09 18:31:38 <agorist> it should
667 2011-04-09 18:31:44 <agorist> its really bad
668 2011-04-09 18:34:12 <robblesz> Hm, there are no clients that currently support pushpool, right?
669 2011-04-09 18:37:41 <sirius-m> bitcoin.org slow or something?
670 2011-04-09 18:37:58 <aaa3> they revamped bitcoin.org!?
671 2011-04-09 18:38:46 <jgarzik> Omni|AFK: Here is my critique of Python: http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2011/04/python-critique-from-new-fan.html
672 2011-04-09 18:39:01 <jgarzik> robblesz: ?
673 2011-04-09 18:39:25 <jgarzik> robblesz: if you are referring to my server, it supports HTTP-JSON as well as BDP (binary data protocol).  No public clients support BDP, though a couple private clients already support it.
674 2011-04-09 18:39:55 <jgarzik> robblesz: I will be modding cpuminer to support BDP real soon now.  it's on the todo list, along with modding poclbm.
675 2011-04-09 18:42:34 <robblesz> jgarzik: so I can use regular HTTP-JSON clients right now with pushpool?
676 2011-04-09 18:42:47 <jgarzik> robblesz: even indicating interest for BDP on the poblcm forum thread would be helpful in getting support into poblcm
677 2011-04-09 18:42:51 <jgarzik> poclbm
678 2011-04-09 18:43:01 <jgarzik> robblesz: yes, pushpool works with regular HTTP-JSON clients right now
679 2011-04-09 18:43:34 <robblesz> excellent, thanks! I'll add my +1 in the thread
680 2011-04-09 18:43:56 <jgarzik> robblesz: I cannot resist a plug...   if you don't wanna maintain the bitcoind and pool server, I do offer a private pool service: https://xf2.org/services/
681 2011-04-09 18:44:10 <robblesz> I am considering xf2, yeah
682 2011-04-09 18:44:34 <robblesz> It kind of depends if my server can handle the load of a private pool
683 2011-04-09 18:44:41 <robblesz> I really have no idea if it will
684 2011-04-09 18:46:34 <jgarzik> robblesz: as long as you have sufficient RAM (> 1.5 G, IMO), it should handle it
685 2011-04-09 18:47:25 <jgarzik> robblesz: a 512MB VPS will handle bitcoind + pushpool on a normal day, but sometimes that balloons.  and if you are using mysql or postgresql rather than sqlite, that's more memory too.
686 2011-04-09 18:47:28 <robblesz> I do have that much free
687 2011-04-09 18:48:05 <robblesz> what kind of access do you offer at xf2? root ssh?
688 2011-04-09 18:48:50 <jgarzik> robblesz: private pool server is entirely managed through web interface.  you get payouts to xf2.org balance, etc.  no root or ssh access.
689 2011-04-09 18:49:22 <robblesz> Gofcha
690 2011-04-09 18:51:39 <RBecker> anyone have a bitcoin market account and could invite me?
691 2011-04-09 18:52:37 <robblesz> jgarzik: mind if I PM you?
692 2011-04-09 18:52:48 <jgarzik> RBecker: you don't seem to be rated on #bitcoin-otc or have much forum activity
693 2011-04-09 18:52:53 <idnar> jgarzik: I think your blog post has a typo, "long, user-friendly traceback" should presumably say "unfriendly"
694 2011-04-09 18:53:07 <RBecker> jgarzik, never been in that channel nor do I have a forum account
695 2011-04-09 18:53:11 <jgarzik> robblesz: sure.  email addy is info@exmulti.com if you prefer email.
696 2011-04-09 18:53:21 <jgarzik> idnar: tnx
697 2011-04-09 18:54:33 <idnar> jgarzik: does a heap not suit your requirements for an always-sorted datastructure?
698 2011-04-09 18:55:13 <RBecker> ;;bc,poolstats
699 2011-04-09 18:55:14 <gribble> {"ghashes_ps": "164.779", "shares": 72018, "active_workers": 1748, "round_duration": "0:31:25", "score": "6191916.0000", "round_started": "2011-04-09 20:23:46", "shares_cdf": "58.30", "getwork_ps": 479}
700 2011-04-09 18:56:11 <jgarzik> idnar: URL?
701 2011-04-09 18:56:51 <idnar> jgarzik: http://docs.python.org/library/heapq.html
702 2011-04-09 18:57:11 <idnar> jgarzik: it only has destructive traversal (via heappop) though, so it might not be what you had in mind
703 2011-04-09 18:57:24 <idnar> (well, there's nlargest/nsmallest as well, I guess)
704 2011-04-09 18:58:45 <jgarzik> idnar: destructive traversal is decidedly less useful than a standard btree or rbtree or...
705 2011-04-09 19:00:03 <idnar> jgarzik: sure, if you need a btree, then a heap is probably not what you want
706 2011-04-09 19:00:33 <jgarzik> idnar: specific need is an always sorted, highly mutable key/value data structure
707 2011-04-09 19:00:43 <jgarzik> +iterable
708 2011-04-09 19:00:51 <jgarzik> +range search
709 2011-04-09 19:01:00 <idnar> I did actually run across a nice btree library for python a while back, but I can't remember what it was called
710 2011-04-09 19:02:17 <jgarzik> idnar: oh they are easy to find
711 2011-04-09 19:02:22 <jgarzik> idnar: just not in the standard library
712 2011-04-09 19:03:01 <idnar> jgarzik: I actually try to avoid the python standard library as much as possible, 90% of it is complete garbage :(
713 2011-04-09 19:03:13 <jgarzik> heh
714 2011-04-09 19:03:33 <jgarzik> idnar: well that's what most people seem to be using, and that is the default choice for many tasks
715 2011-04-09 19:03:42 <idnar> on the other hand, when you have things like lists and dicts built in, it would be nice to have some more basic datastructures
716 2011-04-09 19:03:52 <jgarzik> yep
717 2011-04-09 19:03:56 <idnar> I think the way the Haskell Platform is managed is a lot better than the Python stdlib
718 2011-04-09 19:04:20 <jgarzik> idnar: python stdlib is better managed than Perl's collection
719 2011-04-09 19:04:27 <idnar> stuff that goes into the python stdlib is usually a forked version of an external library that arbitrarily breaks compatibility (even if it's just because of the module name changing)
720 2011-04-09 19:04:52 <idnar> the Haskell Platform is just a collection of specific versions of stuff that's already out there
721 2011-04-09 19:04:54 <robblesz> I'm on Debian Lenny which has really old python. f.e., json doesn't have reads or dumps methods. Pain in the ass
722 2011-04-09 19:06:39 <idnar> jgarzik: anyhow, the closing of your blog post sounds a lot like my own position on Python; it offers me the best compromise of productivity, despite the problems with it
723 2011-04-09 19:06:59 <jgarzik> idnar: yes
724 2011-04-09 19:08:59 <idnar> oh, found it!
725 2011-04-09 19:09:10 <idnar> http://stutzbachenterprises.com/blist/
726 2011-04-09 19:09:18 <agorist> what the fuck
727 2011-04-09 19:09:28 <agorist> my mtgox acocunt just got wiped out
728 2011-04-09 19:09:33 <agorist> 0BTC 0 USD
729 2011-04-09 19:09:47 <agorist> what kind of bullshit is that
730 2011-04-09 19:10:23 <idnar> (except it doesn't have a btree implementation, it has a sortedlist implementation; guess that's what I was thinking about)
731 2011-04-09 19:11:23 <idnar> (but it's all built on B+ trees)
732 2011-04-09 19:11:27 <idnar> agorist: :/
733 2011-04-09 19:11:58 <agorist> what the fuck
734 2011-04-09 19:12:16 <agorist> mtgox is a fucking thief and af raud
735 2011-04-09 19:12:51 <robblesz> Did you try to contact him?
736 2011-04-09 19:16:36 <agorist> will do
737 2011-04-09 19:17:01 <agorist> i shouldnt be contacting a fucking exchange market to redeem my stolen money by that exchange market
738 2011-04-09 19:17:07 <agorist> what kind of business is mtgox running
739 2011-04-09 19:17:07 <witten> agorist: hit reload?
740 2011-04-09 19:17:10 <agorist> i did
741 2011-04-09 19:17:27 <robblesz> Maybe someone hacked into your account. Don't jump to conclusions
742 2011-04-09 19:17:38 <agorist> nobody hacked in my account
743 2011-04-09 19:17:49 <agorist> you cant guess my password nor my username, its too complex
744 2011-04-09 19:18:04 <agorist> plus there are no logs of any transactions
745 2011-04-09 19:18:08 <agorist> the btcs are just gone
746 2011-04-09 19:18:22 <robblesz> How many?
747 2011-04-09 19:18:38 <agorist> not many but still
748 2011-04-09 19:19:41 <agorist> this is true bullshit
749 2011-04-09 19:19:58 <robblesz> You could open a forum thread about the problem
750 2011-04-09 19:20:31 <bitcoiner> mt gox owe me 3 btc
751 2011-04-09 19:20:47 <agorist> how the fuck that can even be?
752 2011-04-09 19:22:38 <ArtForz> *shrug* not missing anything here
753 2011-04-09 19:23:17 <agorist> right
754 2011-04-09 19:23:32 <bitcoiner> I deposit 4 btc only got 1 credited
755 2011-04-09 19:25:09 <ArtForz> lemme guess, 2 sends to the same address?
756 2011-04-09 19:25:25 <bitcoiner> yeah!
757 2011-04-09 19:25:32 <ArtForz> err... don't do that, he has to sort those out manually
758 2011-04-09 19:26:44 <bitcoiner> art I got 15C less with fan 15% less by cleaning dust
759 2011-04-09 19:26:51 <ArtForz> dunno, someone with a love for php and floats
760 2011-04-09 19:27:24 <ArtForz> seeing a balance of "-0.00 BTC" ... not exactly inspiring confidence
761 2011-04-09 19:28:35 <robblesz> http://mtgox.com/blog -> "Error establishing a database connection"
762 2011-04-09 19:28:39 <robblesz> Site needs work
763 2011-04-09 19:28:58 <ArtForz> the market analysis blog got moved like a month ago
764 2011-04-09 19:29:17 <bitcoiner> MT said he was gona rewrite mtgox
765 2011-04-09 19:29:33 <ArtForz> sounds like a good idea
766 2011-04-09 19:43:22 <cosurgi> anybody seen this message before? "[atiddx] Can not allocate deferred message entry![atiddx] Can not allocate deferred message entry![atiddx] "
767 2011-04-09 19:43:35 <cosurgi> it's flooding my Xorg.
768 2011-04-09 19:43:50 <cosurgi> it's flooding my /var/log/Xorg.0.log, last nigh it grew to 1GB
769 2011-04-09 19:44:04 <cosurgi> I restarted first X, then whole box. But now those messages are back
770 2011-04-09 19:44:11 <Diablo-D3> sounds like broken driver
771 2011-04-09 19:44:28 <cosurgi> hm. more like my GPU is really apeshit
772 2011-04-09 19:44:48 <cosurgi> this is happening on the same box where that GPU started overheating.
773 2011-04-09 19:44:49 <xelister> cosurgi: ati's drivers are apeshit
774 2011-04-09 19:45:00 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if your box is just insane
775 2011-04-09 19:45:06 <cosurgi> and it was working for two months straight. Just broke 15 hours ago.
776 2011-04-09 19:45:09 <xelister> althought I nevder seen this error msg... may be your gpu is demaged
777 2011-04-09 19:48:29 <cosurgi> also I see this error:
778 2011-04-09 19:48:32 <cosurgi> WW) fglrx(0): ADL handler failure: Could not find adapter at Bus ID 0:0:0
779 2011-04-09 19:48:44 <cosurgi> (WW) , warning actually
780 2011-04-09 19:48:45 <xelister> cosurgi: this warning is typical
781 2011-04-09 19:48:47 <xelister> I get it all the time
782 2011-04-09 19:48:53 <cosurgi> ok..
783 2011-04-09 19:52:00 <agorist> omg mtgox is officially the biggest piece of crap
784 2011-04-09 19:52:09 <cosurgi> why?
785 2011-04-09 19:52:23 <cosurgi> ok, I think I gotta RMA that GPU
786 2011-04-09 19:52:31 <agorist> cause it stole all my btcs
787 2011-04-09 19:52:42 <cosurgi> well, maybe before I do that I'll look at the fan, closely.
788 2011-04-09 19:52:50 <agorist> and when it doesn steal, the totals aren't even in synch with the transactions
789 2011-04-09 19:52:52 <agorist> its all fucked up
790 2011-04-09 19:53:22 <agorist> how can i have -0.1 usd
791 2011-04-09 19:53:24 <agorist> what the fuck
792 2011-04-09 19:54:39 <agorist> this is so lame
793 2011-04-09 19:54:45 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rc57734693f26 spesmilo/ (i18n/en_GB.ts i18n/eo_EO.ts i18n/nl_NL.ts main.py send.py): add strings missing from i18n http://tinyurl.com/3nrlrwt
794 2011-04-09 19:54:47 <agorist> how can mtgox be considered the main exchange market?
795 2011-04-09 19:54:47 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rf0e35b9006be spesmilo/settings.py: Support standard locale environment variables (LC_ALL, LC_MESSAGES, LANG) http://tinyurl.com/3ujfomh
796 2011-04-09 19:55:41 <luke-jr> agorist: who said it was?
797 2011-04-09 19:56:07 <agorist> you and me and everyone
798 2011-04-09 19:56:21 <agorist> mtgox has the highest volume of all btc markets
799 2011-04-09 19:57:07 <luke-jr> shrug
800 2011-04-09 19:57:22 <lfm> so its lame?
801 2011-04-09 19:57:46 <agorist> mtgox cleared all my btcs
802 2011-04-09 19:57:58 <agorist> so now i got 0btcs and -0.1usd
803 2011-04-09 19:58:01 <agorist> w t f
804 2011-04-09 19:58:07 <tcatm> agorist: you should ask them directly
805 2011-04-09 19:58:15 <lfm> agorist did you use a wimpy password?
806 2011-04-09 19:58:24 <agorist> no i didnt
807 2011-04-09 20:00:25 <luke-jr> agorist: so it was random symbols, letters, and numbers, at least 10 of them?
808 2011-04-09 20:04:54 <ArtForz> errr... so someone can send me mtgoxusd?
809 2011-04-09 20:05:09 <ArtForz> btw, if you havent guessed yet, it's artforz
810 2011-04-09 20:05:28 <lfm> agorist: maybe so the "public" could send you email for instance
811 2011-04-09 20:05:35 <idnar> ArtForz: omg now I can hack into your account!!!111
812 2011-04-09 20:05:45 <agorist> lol
813 2011-04-09 20:06:09 <OneFixt> ok listen carefully
814 2011-04-09 20:06:12 <OneFixt> the password is
815 2011-04-09 20:06:13 <OneFixt> 1
816 2011-04-09 20:06:15 <OneFixt> 2
817 2011-04-09 20:06:18 <OneFixt> 3
818 2011-04-09 20:06:20 <OneFixt> 4
819 2011-04-09 20:06:23 <luke-jr> OMG
820 2011-04-09 20:06:25 <OneFixt> 5
821 2011-04-09 20:06:26 <ArtForz> hey, thats the combination on my luggage!
822 2011-04-09 20:06:27 <luke-jr> that's the combination for my luggage
823 2011-04-09 20:06:27 <OneFixt> ..
824 2011-04-09 20:06:29 <jgarzik> OneFixt: that's the combination on my luggage!
825 2011-04-09 20:06:29 <OneFixt> =D
826 2011-04-09 20:06:34 <jgarzik> heh
827 2011-04-09 20:06:36 <OneFixt> that's why i love this community
828 2011-04-09 20:07:28 <luke-jr> because we've all seen Spaceballs?
829 2011-04-09 20:08:11 <OneFixt> because nerdy jokes have a high chance of hitting home
830 2011-04-09 20:10:04 <cosurgi> spaceballs being nerdy?
831 2011-04-09 20:10:12 <cosurgi> that's just old.
832 2011-04-09 20:10:57 <cosurgi> old jokes hitting home. We are old here :>
833 2011-04-09 20:11:04 <lfm> a spoof of start warz is gonna atract a nerdy adience