1 2011-04-19 00:02:14 <Blitzboom> its fun when people talk about a bitcoin bubble
  2 2011-04-19 00:02:28 <Blitzboom> and disregard facebook/twitter
  3 2011-04-19 00:02:46 <luke-jr> ?
  4 2011-04-19 00:02:51 <Kiba> the bitcoin community thought more about bitcoin's weakness more than any bitcoin critics on the planet
  5 2011-04-19 00:02:54 <Blitzboom> facebook = 70 billion
  6 2011-04-19 00:02:57 <Blitzboom> USD
  7 2011-04-19 00:03:09 <Kiba> what about facebook and twitter?
  8 2011-04-19 00:03:26 <Blitzboom> everyone is investing in them
  9 2011-04-19 00:03:38 <luke-jr> not I
 10 2011-04-19 00:03:39 <Kiba> and?
 11 2011-04-19 00:03:55 <Blitzboom> and its obviously a bubble
 12 2011-04-19 00:04:14 <Kiba> overuse of the word bubble tend to make kiba a dull boy
 13 2011-04-19 00:04:21 <Kiba> twitter is useful
 14 2011-04-19 00:04:23 <Kiba> facebook is not
 15 2011-04-19 00:04:34 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r62eb33a0bc89 spesmilo/main.py: Bugfix: Delete old TrayIcon when we're about to create a new one http://tinyurl.com/4yu7aty
 16 2011-04-19 00:04:36 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rf78d8014f28d spesmilo/main.py: Bugfix: Make settings the current window when not yet connected http://tinyurl.com/3m8t7lo
 17 2011-04-19 00:04:40 <Blitzboom> you dont come to decide whats useful or not
 18 2011-04-19 00:04:41 <Kiba> at least, for me, it is useful
 19 2011-04-19 00:04:48 <Kiba> twitter is useful
 20 2011-04-19 00:04:54 <Kiba> because twitter give me good content to read
 21 2011-04-19 00:05:01 <Kiba> and a pulse on the bitcoin world
 22 2011-04-19 00:05:24 <Kiba> very good way to catch breaking news too
 23 2011-04-19 00:05:38 <Kiba> twitter is not a social networking site
 24 2011-04-19 00:05:41 <Kiba> it is an information network
 25 2011-04-19 00:05:49 <luke-jr> Kiba: Twitter is not useful
 26 2011-04-19 00:05:53 <Kiba> and kiba is not very conductive to being banal social
 27 2011-04-19 00:05:55 <luke-jr> Facebook is useful only because of its monopoly
 28 2011-04-19 00:06:21 <Kiba> luke-jr: I used it to get info for bitcoinwatch's newsfeed
 29 2011-04-19 00:16:01 <sacarlson> well at least I got github setup but I'm still at a loss as to how to create a new proto coin but here's what I have so far https://github.com/sacarlson/bitcoin
 30 2011-04-19 00:18:44 <gavinandresen> sacarlson: MATURITY=1 is a really bad idea.  Think about what will happen if a 1-maturity coinbase is spent, then spent again a couple times in the next 2 blocks, then there is a 3-block block re-porg
 31 2011-04-19 00:18:48 <gavinandresen> re-org
 32 2011-04-19 00:19:36 <sacarlson> gavinandresen: it's just a temp move to quicken development
 33 2011-04-19 00:20:05 <sacarlson> gavinandresen: it will later be added to the config file so that it can be easily changed
 34 2011-04-19 00:20:08 <gavinandresen> sacarlson: you should be using testnet-in-a-box....
 35 2011-04-19 00:20:24 <gavinandresen> (it comes with already-mature coins to play with)
 36 2011-04-19 00:20:57 <sacarlson> gavinandresen: that sounds cool but I want to learn to create new coins
 37 2011-04-19 00:21:53 <sacarlson> gavinandresen: where can this testnet-in-a-box be found?  is that in git?
 38 2011-04-19 00:22:46 <gavinandresen> sacarlson: https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/
 39 2011-04-19 00:23:02 <sacarlson> gavinandresen: very good I'll take a look
 40 2011-04-19 00:33:26 <grbgout> hmm, has anyone looked at hadoop with bitcoins in mind?
 41 2011-04-19 00:34:08 <Kiba> what's a hadoop?
 42 2011-04-19 00:34:26 <grbgout> Kiba: http://hadoop.apache.org/
 43 2011-04-19 00:34:31 <grbgout> Kiba: just learned about it myself.
 44 2011-04-19 00:36:26 <grbgout> namecoin?  Oh, that DNS thing?
 45 2011-04-19 00:37:09 <Kiba> yes
 46 2011-04-19 00:37:30 <Kiba> people have not agreed on how many domain names should be created...
 47 2011-04-19 00:38:22 <bd_> grbgout: What, you have a cluster of GPU-equipped servers in your basement to run it on? :)
 48 2011-04-19 00:39:52 <grbgout> bd_: not yet :)
 49 2011-04-19 00:53:56 <Diablo-D3> lol
 50 2011-04-19 00:54:03 <Diablo-D3> we're past the 25 hour mark
 51 2011-04-19 00:54:16 <Diablo-D3> still doesnt have all 1000 done
 52 2011-04-19 00:56:50 <netxshare> new nvidia drivers
 53 2011-04-19 00:57:07 <netxshare> 270.61 came out of beta
 54 2011-04-19 02:25:03 <Lachesis> wow no discussion here anymore
 55 2011-04-19 02:25:56 <hacim> hush
 56 2011-04-19 02:26:13 <luke-jr> 2.6.38 is bunk
 57 2011-04-19 02:27:14 <luke-jr> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33662
 58 2011-04-19 02:27:36 <Lachesis> does #bitcoin-market still work?
 59 2011-04-19 02:27:41 <DavidSJ> doesn't seem to
 60 2011-04-19 02:27:47 <Lachesis> i saw no streaming data when i was idling there (admittedly not for long)
 61 2011-04-19 02:28:13 <endian7000> difficulty updates happen every K blocks, right?
 62 2011-04-19 02:28:19 <endian7000> what if a well-funded adversary mines at 10 PHash/sec until the difficulty goes way up, then stops immediately after a difficulty update?
 63 2011-04-19 02:29:04 <Lachesis> yeah, 2016
 64 2011-04-19 02:29:05 <Lachesis> diff will only go up / down 4x at a time
 65 2011-04-19 02:29:06 <Lachesis> meaning it'd cost him/her a while to raise it too high
 66 2011-04-19 02:29:09 <sacarlson> endian7000: I guess that might take a week to correct?
 67 2011-04-19 02:29:36 <Lachesis> sacarlson, no, it'd take 2016 blocks
 68 2011-04-19 02:29:49 <Lachesis> which could take months if, say, 99% of the computing power in the client went away
 69 2011-04-19 02:31:27 <endian7000> because governments probably have way more than 1THash sitting around
 70 2011-04-19 02:32:15 <[Noodles]> 1T != 10P, besides that, why would any government bother at bitcoins current size?
 71 2011-04-19 02:32:18 <Lachesis> yeah, but also better ways to break bitcoin
 72 2011-04-19 02:32:38 <Lachesis> besides, with > 51% of the network power, you can double spend
 73 2011-04-19 02:32:55 <Lachesis> which would destroy confidence in bitcoin
 74 2011-04-19 03:12:24 <EPiSKiNG> betco.in has 4 hold em players just seated and ready for action!
 75 2011-04-19 03:12:30 <JackRabiit> guys come play poker at betco.in , We gotta table going!
 76 2011-04-19 03:12:40 <noagendamarket> cool
 77 2011-04-19 04:02:44 <slueth> In ubuntu how do you get the miner to reconize the second gpu?
 78 2011-04-19 04:17:17 <lfm> slueth: genarally all you need is a d-1 parm
 79 2011-04-19 04:17:23 <lfm> slueth: genarally all you need is a d=1 parm
 80 2011-04-19 04:23:27 <slueth> It actually uses my cpu when i do d=1
 81 2011-04-19 04:23:36 <slueth> so I assume it is not reconizing my gpu or seeing it
 82 2011-04-19 04:33:04 <mvn071> FYI https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git does 404
 83 2011-04-19 04:37:41 <jaromil> are you in china or somewhere like that?
 84 2011-04-19 04:37:44 <jaromil> it works
 85 2011-04-19 04:38:23 <rly> mvn071: you are doing it wrong.
 86 2011-04-19 04:38:31 <rly> jaromil: no, it doesn't.
 87 2011-04-19 04:38:38 <mvn071> hin
 88 2011-04-19 04:38:42 <rly> jaromil: but it is designed to give that response.
 89 2011-04-19 04:39:01 <mvn071> hi sorry, it can pull it by git
 90 2011-04-19 04:39:19 <mvn071> but https give 404, so it looks like an error
 91 2011-04-19 04:40:21 <rly> mvn071: it is not an error if it is by design.
 92 2011-04-19 04:40:40 <rly> mvn071: remove the bitcoin.git part for proof of that
 93 2011-04-19 04:40:56 <mvn071> rly maybe a responce like  "use git for this" makes more sense
 94 2011-04-19 04:41:55 <jaromil> oh sryi thought you knew
 95 2011-04-19 04:42:08 <jaromil> usually .git is to be used with git
 96 2011-04-19 04:42:28 <mvn071> I did not use the words wright,wrong,error,
 97 2011-04-19 04:42:33 <jaromil> good'moin btw
 98 2011-04-19 04:42:51 <mvn071> aye good morging
 99 2011-04-19 04:43:43 <mvn071> I was trying to get coind working on freebsd
100 2011-04-19 04:45:22 <mvn071> and there in nothing in ports... Is known to work on any BSD (not osX)?
101 2011-04-19 04:59:03 <topi`> jaromil: I just wrote a small article about nationalist politics and bitcoin.
102 2011-04-19 04:59:20 <topi`> jaromil: feedback would be appreciated :)
103 2011-04-19 04:59:28 <topi`> http://lorelei.kaverit.org/cgi/sana.py?the-true-finns-and-bitcoin
104 2011-04-19 05:03:05 <Diablo-D3> arent the true finns some sort of post-nazi group?
105 2011-04-19 05:03:44 <mtrlt> Diablo-D3: are you serious? :P
106 2011-04-19 05:04:15 <rly> Diablo-D3: sounds more like common sense.
107 2011-04-19 05:04:27 <Diablo-D3> so they... are.
108 2011-04-19 05:04:58 <rly> Diablo-D3: they want to be sovereign.
109 2011-04-19 05:05:00 <Diablo-D3> I mean, the only other parties that are "common sense" are the nazis and the tea party
110 2011-04-19 05:05:03 <rly> Diablo-D3: what is wrong with that?
111 2011-04-19 05:05:13 <Diablo-D3> rly: because where are they going to run off to?
112 2011-04-19 05:05:14 <Diablo-D3> canada?
113 2011-04-19 05:05:46 <rly> Diablo-D3: why can't they just sit in the snow with their weapons and fight of whoever they want?
114 2011-04-19 05:05:47 <mtrlt> what?
115 2011-04-19 05:05:59 <Diablo-D3> rly: because WWII ended many years ago.
116 2011-04-19 05:05:59 <rly> Diablo-D3: that worked in WW2 too pretty well.
117 2011-04-19 05:06:19 <rly> Diablo-D3: so, they just demonstrated that they could fight fairly well.
118 2011-04-19 05:06:44 <rly> Diablo-D3: that other countries are such pussies is a different story.
119 2011-04-19 05:06:48 <Diablo-D3> any political party that advocates war should be wiped from the face of the earth.
120 2011-04-19 05:06:59 <rly> Diablo-D3: they do not advocate that.
121 2011-04-19 05:07:09 <mtrlt> but true finns don't advocate war. why did you think they did :P
122 2011-04-19 05:07:16 <rly> Diablo-D3: also, you are implying that the US should be wiped from the face of the earth now.
123 2011-04-19 05:07:21 <Diablo-D3> rly: just Bush.
124 2011-04-19 05:07:37 <rly> The US has continuously fought wars.
125 2011-04-19 05:07:44 <Diablo-D3> Yes, under Bush.
126 2011-04-19 05:07:45 <rly> There are lists available showing that.
127 2011-04-19 05:07:53 <Diablo-D3> Bush just keeps changing names and faces.
128 2011-04-19 05:07:53 <rly> No, since WW2.
129 2011-04-19 05:07:59 <Diablo-D3> Right now, we know him as Bush.
130 2011-04-19 05:08:10 <Diablo-D3> Tommorow, he could be some other guy
131 2011-04-19 05:08:15 <mtrlt> like obama? :P
132 2011-04-19 05:08:24 <Diablo-D3> And I suspect he is also multiple people at once
133 2011-04-19 05:08:31 <Diablo-D3> Even in the same room
134 2011-04-19 05:08:34 <rly> This was about the Finnish people. I do not see anything wrong with deciding what is best for them.
135 2011-04-19 05:08:48 <Diablo-D3> So, the true finns are NOT a nazi party?
136 2011-04-19 05:08:54 <rly> It sounds like they have a working democracy, unlike most other countries.
137 2011-04-19 05:09:01 <mtrlt> well, of course not?
138 2011-04-19 05:09:08 <Diablo-D3> So why does the Internet think they are
139 2011-04-19 05:09:08 <rly> Diablo-D3: er no.
140 2011-04-19 05:09:23 <rly> Diablo-D3: I do not think they have ever had a nazi problem or something like that.
141 2011-04-19 05:09:32 <mtrlt> except in the war of lapland ;-)
142 2011-04-19 05:10:07 <mtrlt> but that was a different kind of problem
143 2011-04-19 05:10:20 <rly> I meant like the youth being attracted to such idiotic ideas.
144 2011-04-19 05:10:22 <Diablo-D3> so is there any hot women finland doesnt want anymore?
145 2011-04-19 05:10:43 <rly> Diablo-D3: I don't think it quite works like that.
146 2011-04-19 05:11:10 <rly> Diablo-D3: also, the Internet is stupid.
147 2011-04-19 05:11:17 <Diablo-D3> ^ THIS
148 2011-04-19 05:11:22 <mtrlt> if you really want to know about finnish politics, you have to read finnish news from multiple sources in finnish :-)
149 2011-04-19 05:11:28 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: fuck that
150 2011-04-19 05:11:35 <Diablo-D3> even the finnish hate your ... whatever the hell that is
151 2011-04-19 05:11:37 <Diablo-D3> its not a language
152 2011-04-19 05:11:43 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure what it is
153 2011-04-19 05:11:47 <mtrlt> thx
154 2011-04-19 05:11:53 <mtrlt> i hate your miner :-)
155 2011-04-19 05:12:00 <Diablo-D3> all nvidia users do.
156 2011-04-19 05:12:07 <mtrlt> i use ati
157 2011-04-19 05:12:17 <Diablo-D3> then quit betraying the cause!
158 2011-04-19 05:12:17 <mtrlt> but seriously
159 2011-04-19 05:12:22 <rly> Diablo-D3: did you improve yours?
160 2011-04-19 05:12:43 <rly> Diablo-D3: the python one was faster on my system a few months ago or so.
161 2011-04-19 05:13:01 <Diablo-D3> its faster
162 2011-04-19 05:13:23 <Diablo-D3> and it depends when you tried "a few months ago"
163 2011-04-19 05:13:36 <Diablo-D3> I was experimenting with stuff that ended up not working "a few months ago"
164 2011-04-19 05:13:44 <Diablo-D3> as it stands, newest poclbm vs newest mine, mines faster
165 2011-04-19 05:14:03 <mtrlt> on my system, i get wildly varying performance on diablominer, like one second it's 80Mhash, another it's 160, but with poclbm i get steady 275 :P
166 2011-04-19 05:14:07 <ArtForz> ... on a 4850
167 2011-04-19 05:14:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no, I havent tested m0's for while
168 2011-04-19 05:14:27 <Diablo-D3> this is all other people's testing
169 2011-04-19 05:14:37 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: sure you were reading the right number?
170 2011-04-19 05:14:43 <mtrlt> yea
171 2011-04-19 05:14:51 <Diablo-D3> second number on mine == since start of program
172 2011-04-19 05:15:32 <mtrlt> neither number never got as far as 200Mhps
173 2011-04-19 05:15:43 <mtrlt> tested for a minute or so though
174 2011-04-19 05:15:56 <Diablo-D3> try it again now
175 2011-04-19 05:16:13 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: you're not on sdk 2.2 and 2.3, right?
176 2011-04-19 05:16:18 <mtrlt> nope, 2.4 afaik
177 2011-04-19 05:16:24 <Diablo-D3> good
178 2011-04-19 05:16:29 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 and 2.4 are the only safe sdks
179 2011-04-19 05:16:40 <Diablo-D3> and 2.1 is still faster
180 2011-04-19 05:17:03 <mtrlt> suggestion: add DiabloMiner-windows.bat or something :)
181 2011-04-19 05:17:15 <Diablo-D3> well, I keep asking someone to write one
182 2011-04-19 05:17:17 <Diablo-D3> but they never do
183 2011-04-19 05:17:24 <mtrlt> i'll do it then
184 2011-04-19 05:17:34 <Diablo-D3> I dont know how to write batch files that accept args
185 2011-04-19 05:17:41 <Diablo-D3> and I dont have a windows machine to test it on anyhow
186 2011-04-19 05:19:15 <aninoni> hey, I've got a question, anybody up?
187 2011-04-19 05:19:24 <Diablo-D3> dont ask to ask, its rude
188 2011-04-19 05:19:55 <rly> Diablo-D3: what does one get on a 5770 with your miner?
189 2011-04-19 05:20:16 <Diablo-D3> rly: not sure, should be above 150
190 2011-04-19 05:20:50 <sipa> aninoni: just ask your question
191 2011-04-19 05:21:09 <Diablo-D3> rly: the wiki is out of date imo
192 2011-04-19 05:21:11 <aninoni> : my bad.  I just downloaded bitcoin on my 2nd computer, and when I hit generate coins, I don't see a "khash/sec" number anywhere.  Google wasn't getting me anywhere
193 2011-04-19 05:21:21 <Diablo-D3> aninoni: blocks arent done downloading yet.
194 2011-04-19 05:21:46 <aninoni> gotcha.  That's what I was forgetting
195 2011-04-19 05:21:49 <aninoni> thanks!
196 2011-04-19 05:22:13 <rly> Diablo-D3: the Python one gets 159 highish.
197 2011-04-19 05:22:27 <Diablo-D3> rly: mine should get at least that
198 2011-04-19 05:23:18 <ArtForz> wow, CL miners are slow
199 2011-04-19 05:24:07 <ArtForz> 177.2Mh at 850 core, 221 at 1060 core
200 2011-04-19 05:26:36 <CIA-89> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rb9d62cd / DiabloMiner-Windows.bat : Added mtrlt's batch script for Windows - http://bit.ly/fzgcUr
201 2011-04-19 05:27:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh
202 2011-04-19 05:27:32 <Diablo-D3> well I dont know what mine gets
203 2011-04-19 05:27:51 <rly> nvidia has CUDA, does ATI only have OpenCL?
204 2011-04-19 05:28:16 <Diablo-D3> CUDA is a closed source unstandardized language developed by nvidia to aid vendor lock in
205 2011-04-19 05:28:31 <Diablo-D3> it is inferior and obviously a giant hack job
206 2011-04-19 05:28:44 <ArtForz> ati has CAL, but thats kinda EOL
207 2011-04-19 05:28:52 <Diablo-D3> CAL isnt really the same thing
208 2011-04-19 05:29:04 <Diablo-D3> all new programs will be written in either opencl or directx compute
209 2011-04-19 05:29:10 <Diablo-D3> theres no reason to use something like cuda
210 2011-04-19 05:29:11 <ArtForz> well, still better than writing card-specific shader asm
211 2011-04-19 05:29:23 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: cuda is higher level
212 2011-04-19 05:29:34 <ArtForz> the high level cuda interface is
213 2011-04-19 05:29:45 <ArtForz> which is what pretty much everyone uses
214 2011-04-19 05:29:45 <Diablo-D3> its like hlsl but for computing
215 2011-04-19 05:29:53 <Diablo-D3> its also retarded
216 2011-04-19 05:30:33 <ArtForz> iirc you can also assemble/load low level shaders using cuda, but no one does that
217 2011-04-19 05:31:11 <rly> Diablo-D3: based on what do you say that?
218 2011-04-19 05:31:37 <Diablo-D3> rly: nvidia has never hired any language designers
219 2011-04-19 05:31:50 <Diablo-D3> or, really, anyone who knows anything
220 2011-04-19 05:32:46 <ArtForz> imo, cuda gets abstractions and language design pretty wrong
221 2011-04-19 05:33:42 <rly> Diablo-D3: heh, I always got the impression the best work at nvidia (at least for graphics). Must have been good marketing then.
222 2011-04-19 05:33:46 <ArtForz> sure, hpc people write high performance compute kernels in cuda, but they also write similar stuff in fortran...
223 2011-04-19 05:33:59 <Diablo-D3> rly: no, not even close
224 2011-04-19 05:34:05 <Diablo-D3> rly: like, take chip design people
225 2011-04-19 05:34:16 <Diablo-D3> take the top 10 schools in the world for that (9 of which are in the US)
226 2011-04-19 05:34:37 <Diablo-D3> the absolute best of the class.... work for AMD or Intel or ARM.
227 2011-04-19 05:42:27 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, everytime someone says they have a new idea, IBM invented it and perfected it and threw it out 40 years ago
228 2011-04-19 05:42:30 <Diablo-D3> I shit you not
229 2011-04-19 05:43:11 <joepie91> lol
230 2011-04-19 05:43:14 <Diablo-D3> the entire fucking process is "new dedicated totally 100% fixed function chip" -> "cheaper next gen more flexiable chip" -> "totally generic reprogrammable chip" -> "its now a standard part of the cpy"
231 2011-04-19 05:43:15 <mtrlt> :D
232 2011-04-19 05:43:17 <Diablo-D3> and then we repeat.
233 2011-04-19 05:43:27 <Diablo-D3> *cpu
234 2011-04-19 05:43:40 <ArtForz> well... dunno about that
235 2011-04-19 05:43:59 <Diablo-D3> FPU coprocessors.. bigger than the CPU.
236 2011-04-19 05:44:04 <ArtForz> yeah
237 2011-04-19 05:44:12 <Diablo-D3> now we have like 12 fucking FPU ALUs on the goddamned CPU now
238 2011-04-19 05:44:32 <rly> Simpsons did it <=> IBM did it.
239 2011-04-19 05:44:39 <Diablo-D3> L2 cache controllers in the northbridge with expensive extra fast ram in sockets
240 2011-04-19 05:44:42 <Diablo-D3> now its all in the CPU
241 2011-04-19 05:45:11 <Diablo-D3> gigantic fucking data routing chips going between CPUs in giant supercomputers
242 2011-04-19 05:45:26 <ArtForz> except we still dont have high bandwidth mem interfaces for CPUs, which you kinda want to make good use of a massive vector unit
243 2011-04-19 05:45:29 <Diablo-D3> AMD calls this "hypertransport", and its almost entirely on the CPU.
244 2011-04-19 05:45:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: we're getting there.
245 2011-04-19 05:46:08 <Diablo-D3> Im waiting for AMD to start shipping SuperFusions that support like 4 level cache
246 2011-04-19 05:46:13 <ArtForz> well, not with conventional sockets
247 2011-04-19 05:46:13 <Diablo-D3> L1, L2, L3, and then "video ram"
248 2011-04-19 05:46:53 <ArtForz> and your exeternal mem bus is still only 128 bits wide and clocked at a snails pace
249 2011-04-19 05:46:54 <Diablo-D3> and you have this gigantic blob of like 2gb of "video ram" (which is neither exclusively for the video, nor is it ram addressable by things)
250 2011-04-19 05:47:04 <Diablo-D3> which leads to an interesting thing
251 2011-04-19 05:47:22 <Diablo-D3> "standard part of the cpu" -> "GETS FUCKING REINVENTED AND WE DO THE SAME EXACT THING AGAIN"
252 2011-04-19 05:47:34 <ArtForz> that'd be pretty much the only option, a G or so of ram on package
253 2011-04-19 05:47:46 <Diablo-D3> actually
254 2011-04-19 05:47:56 <Diablo-D3> if we could shove like a huge shitload of L3 on a chip
255 2011-04-19 05:48:00 <Diablo-D3> that'd solve a lot of problems
256 2011-04-19 05:48:07 <Diablo-D3> then agian
257 2011-04-19 05:48:09 <ArtForz> and without stacked silicon that will be one *really* expensive package
258 2011-04-19 05:48:09 <Diablo-D3> you have power
259 2011-04-19 05:48:15 <Diablo-D3> where 256MB of L3 isnt uncommon....
260 2011-04-19 05:48:36 <Diablo-D3> Im surprised stacked silicon isnt more common
261 2011-04-19 05:48:49 <Diablo-D3> it solves a lot of design issues
262 2011-04-19 05:49:01 <Pander> Sometimes "aticonfig --odgt --adapter=all" results in "ERROR - X needs to be running to perform ATI Overdrive(TM) commands" How to fix this?
263 2011-04-19 05:49:10 <ArtForz> they're still pretty much working on making it mass-manufacturable
264 2011-04-19 05:49:27 <Diablo-D3> Pander: X needs to be running.
265 2011-04-19 05:49:31 <Pander> it is
266 2011-04-19 05:49:35 <ArtForz> main problem iirc is still failures in the inter-die interface
267 2011-04-19 05:49:36 <Diablo-D3> your DISPLAY isnt set right.
268 2011-04-19 05:49:54 <MagicalTux> Pander, make sure you're doing this under the user logged in on X
269 2011-04-19 05:49:55 <Pander> I had the same yesterday, one ssh session did return correct output, another didn't (both root)
270 2011-04-19 05:49:58 <Pander> ah, that coudl be it
271 2011-04-19 05:50:01 <ArtForz> which are kinda hard to fix with current process tech when you have 2 dies with massively different thermal profiles
272 2011-04-19 05:50:15 <netxshare> should I go with the 6990 or the 6970?
273 2011-04-19 05:50:44 <Pander> thanks MagicalPenguin
274 2011-04-19 05:50:50 <ArtForz> it should work fine for flash, dram and other low-power stuff
275 2011-04-19 05:51:02 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: 6990 and then clock the GPUs back to 6970 speeds
276 2011-04-19 05:51:19 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, unless they're NOT different thermal profiles ;)
277 2011-04-19 05:51:35 <ArtForz> ... how would that work?
278 2011-04-19 05:52:25 <ArtForz> you have a structured hot design on one die, a sea of ram cells on the other
279 2011-04-19 05:52:49 <netxshare> damn mrb wants 400 btc for his miner
280 2011-04-19 05:52:55 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: mrb can shove it.
281 2011-04-19 05:53:04 <ArtForz> we already kinda do the same shit with wirebonded multi-die packages
282 2011-04-19 05:53:05 <Diablo-D3> 400btc can buy you another video card
283 2011-04-19 05:53:08 <netxshare> at least he is giving the code out this time
284 2011-04-19 05:53:25 <ArtForz> yep
285 2011-04-19 05:53:27 <netxshare> I am not sure
286 2011-04-19 05:53:29 <ArtForz> CAL IL
287 2011-04-19 05:53:32 <netxshare> oh
288 2011-04-19 05:53:39 <netxshare> that's not what I want anyways
289 2011-04-19 05:53:39 <Pander> True that this is the fastest way to get GPU temp? export DISPLAY=:0; aticonfig --odgt --adapter=1|grep Temperature|sed -e 's/.* - (.*) C$/1/'
290 2011-04-19 05:54:05 <netxshare> I just want to use stream and a sha256 shader
291 2011-04-19 05:54:07 <ArtForz> quite a bit slower than my cal miner on 5xxx/68xx, faster on 69xx
292 2011-04-19 05:54:46 <ArtForz> seriously, writing a sha256 shader is not rocket science
293 2011-04-19 05:54:56 <netxshare> I still can't get nvidia's compiler to dump their ptx files
294 2011-04-19 05:55:01 <netxshare> I would not think so
295 2011-04-19 05:55:02 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh
296 2011-04-19 05:55:04 <Diablo-D3> well
297 2011-04-19 05:55:05 <ArtForz> and btw, a generic sha256 shader is way too slow
298 2011-04-19 05:55:11 <Diablo-D3> except you did shit in your CL kernel that probably isnt even sane
299 2011-04-19 05:55:15 <Diablo-D3> also
300 2011-04-19 05:55:22 <ArtForz> what?
301 2011-04-19 05:55:25 <Diablo-D3> if its a lot slower than your miner... its slower than MY miner
302 2011-04-19 05:55:38 <ArtForz> err... no
303 2011-04-19 05:55:49 <ArtForz> iirc his gets 670Mh/s or so on stock 5970
304 2011-04-19 05:55:52 <ArtForz> err
305 2011-04-19 05:55:54 <ArtForz> 570
306 2011-04-19 05:56:15 <Diablo-D3> 570?
307 2011-04-19 05:56:16 <Diablo-D3> thats it?
308 2011-04-19 05:56:18 <ArtForz> yeah
309 2011-04-19 05:56:21 <ArtForz> kinda ... "meh"
310 2011-04-19 05:56:27 <Diablo-D3> someone was getting 615 with mine on a stock 5970
311 2011-04-19 05:56:37 <ArtForz> sorry, no way
312 2011-04-19 05:56:46 <netxshare> what is the best option for stick 4 6970's in a computer
313 2011-04-19 05:56:48 <netxshare> mother board wise
314 2011-04-19 05:56:57 <netxshare> I am guessing going amd cpu would be the best
315 2011-04-19 05:56:59 <netxshare> price wise
316 2011-04-19 05:57:00 <ArtForz> "none", build 2 boxes
317 2011-04-19 05:57:02 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: easy... buy two 6990s.
318 2011-04-19 05:57:17 <netxshare> doing a 4x setup is a bad idea?
319 2011-04-19 05:57:23 <ArtForz> yep
320 2011-04-19 05:57:34 <Diablo-D3> its difficult unless you're Art
321 2011-04-19 05:57:38 <ArtForz> way too much fucking with shit
322 2011-04-19 05:57:40 <netxshare> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
323 2011-04-19 05:57:46 <netxshare> I think that's mrb again
324 2011-04-19 05:57:53 <netxshare> but he used 5970s
325 2011-04-19 05:58:01 <ArtForz> yeah
326 2011-04-19 05:58:34 <ArtForz> $170 for PCIe extenders
327 2011-04-19 05:58:48 <ArtForz> you can get 2nd mobo+cpu+ram quite a bit cheaper than that
328 2011-04-19 05:58:48 <netxshare> =/
329 2011-04-19 05:58:51 <netxshare> yeah
330 2011-04-19 05:58:53 <ArtForz> err... $140
331 2011-04-19 05:59:10 <Diablo-D3> yeah
332 2011-04-19 05:59:10 <netxshare> the 4x pcie board was 170
333 2011-04-19 05:59:14 <Diablo-D3> but art built like 9000 boxes
334 2011-04-19 05:59:30 <Diablo-D3> his house must be audable down the street
335 2011-04-19 05:59:35 <netxshare> he always does crazy things
336 2011-04-19 05:59:38 <ArtForz> and then he had to build a custom wiring harness, modify the extenders to feed the cards power directly from PSU 12V lines, ...
337 2011-04-19 05:59:56 <ArtForz> and it doesnt fit in a normal case
338 2011-04-19 06:00:00 <netxshare> yeah
339 2011-04-19 06:00:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: so wait, why do you think 615 is impossible?
340 2011-04-19 06:00:05 <netxshare> I was not going to use a case
341 2011-04-19 06:00:23 <netxshare> I have plenty of room in my nice cold basement
342 2011-04-19 06:00:33 <ArtForz> because 618 is theoretical max at 100% VLIW util and using BFI_INT
343 2011-04-19 06:00:48 <Diablo-D3> hrm, maybe it was 605
344 2011-04-19 06:01:01 <ArtForz> OpenCL can't use BFI_INT, instant 6% slowdown
345 2011-04-19 06:01:15 <Diablo-D3> yes, and when it can
346 2011-04-19 06:01:18 <Diablo-D3> 6% speedup
347 2011-04-19 06:01:19 <Diablo-D3> :D
348 2011-04-19 06:01:33 <netxshare> could opencl just add support in for BFI_INT?
349 2011-04-19 06:01:38 <ArtForz> not easily
350 2011-04-19 06:01:44 <netxshare> ah
351 2011-04-19 06:01:47 <Diablo-D3> yes, actually
352 2011-04-19 06:01:51 <ArtForz> well, unless ATI fixes their drivers first
353 2011-04-19 06:01:59 <Diablo-D3> since you'd end up changing the code back to calling .. uh...
354 2011-04-19 06:02:02 <netxshare> like that will happen
355 2011-04-19 06:02:05 <Diablo-D3> whatever the fuck the name of that function is
356 2011-04-19 06:02:10 <ArtForz> IL bytecode doesn't support it
357 2011-04-19 06:02:14 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: not YET
358 2011-04-19 06:02:18 <Diablo-D3> but look at 2.4
359 2011-04-19 06:02:21 <Diablo-D3> now requires at least 11.1
360 2011-04-19 06:02:28 <ArtForz> yeah... so... maybe in 6 months?
361 2011-04-19 06:02:34 <Diablo-D3> so theres nothing against 2.5 requiring something newer
362 2011-04-19 06:02:35 <Insti> genjix: let me know if you have server questions.
363 2011-04-19 06:02:46 <Diablo-D3> damnuit
364 2011-04-19 06:02:48 <Diablo-D3> damnit
365 2011-04-19 06:02:52 <ArtForz> by then I probably wont have a a gpu cluster anymore anyways
366 2011-04-19 06:02:54 <Diablo-D3> who here has a 5970 running 2.1?
367 2011-04-19 06:02:54 <netxshare> so does http://bitcoindarts.movoda.net/ payout?
368 2011-04-19 06:03:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: give me one of your 5970s dude :<
369 2011-04-19 06:03:19 <netxshare> why do you want a 5970?
370 2011-04-19 06:03:25 <lfm> just one?
371 2011-04-19 06:03:26 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: miner development
372 2011-04-19 06:03:29 <Diablo-D3> lfm: just one.
373 2011-04-19 06:03:48 <netxshare> oh
374 2011-04-19 06:04:05 <Diablo-D3> I mean, Ive probably made people that much money
375 2011-04-19 06:04:11 <Diablo-D3> its the least the community could do for me :<
376 2011-04-19 06:04:33 <netxshare> ill make a custom ati miner
377 2011-04-19 06:04:41 <netxshare> but require it be a part of a pool
378 2011-04-19 06:04:44 <netxshare> and ill take a %
379 2011-04-19 06:04:50 <netxshare> that's better then 400 btc right
380 2011-04-19 06:05:22 <lfm> netxshare: ask puddinpop how well that worked for him
381 2011-04-19 06:05:24 <ArtForz> puddinpop tried that, didnt exactly work well
382 2011-04-19 06:05:43 <netxshare> oh someone did try it?
383 2011-04-19 06:05:49 <Diablo-D3> puddingpop got ass raped.
384 2011-04-19 06:06:07 <netxshare> is that why I have not seen any updates to rpc-miner
385 2011-04-19 06:06:22 <ArtForz> the only tricky part is writing a good kernel, and that's pretty easy to rip from another miner
386 2011-04-19 06:06:53 <netxshare> well his cuda kernel sucks
387 2011-04-19 06:07:12 <netxshare> if opencl can do 10-15mh/s more
388 2011-04-19 06:07:22 <ArtForz> yep
389 2011-04-19 06:07:27 <Diablo-D3> actually, can it?
390 2011-04-19 06:07:31 <netxshare> yes
391 2011-04-19 06:07:35 <Diablo-D3> I know art's kernel is now really fucking fast on nvidia
392 2011-04-19 06:07:41 <Diablo-D3> since it basically forces the compiler to work
393 2011-04-19 06:07:45 <netxshare> I get 121/122 in opencl on m0ms
394 2011-04-19 06:07:53 <Diablo-D3> it was like a 2% increase on ati
395 2011-04-19 06:07:57 <Diablo-D3> but like a 15% increase on nvidia
396 2011-04-19 06:08:27 <ArtForz> yeah, you'd expect compilers to be good at shit like invariant extraction... they're not
397 2011-04-19 06:08:49 <netxshare> I would expect nvcc to output when using the correct flags
398 2011-04-19 06:08:59 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: what is mine getting on your nvidia shit?
399 2011-04-19 06:09:12 <netxshare> have not tried it
400 2011-04-19 06:09:15 <netxshare> I dislike java
401 2011-04-19 06:09:22 <netxshare> but ill give it a shot
402 2011-04-19 06:09:27 <Diablo-D3> yet you like python? wtf dude.
403 2011-04-19 06:09:40 <netxshare> yes
404 2011-04-19 06:09:42 <netxshare> I <3 python
405 2011-04-19 06:10:18 <Diablo-D3> =|
406 2011-04-19 06:10:30 <netxshare> I just hated writing code in it
407 2011-04-19 06:12:42 <Diablo-D3> heh
408 2011-04-19 06:15:41 <netxshare> it's mad at me
409 2011-04-19 06:15:49 <netxshare> says it can't connect to Bitcoin
410 2011-04-19 06:16:07 <netxshare> seems to fail to connect to deepbit.net
411 2011-04-19 06:18:27 <netxshare> there we go
412 2011-04-19 06:19:02 <netxshare> 114822/114830 khash/sec
413 2011-04-19 06:19:59 <MagicalTux> no block since 2011-04-19 07:55:05
414 2011-04-19 06:20:14 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: what was m0's getting?
415 2011-04-19 06:20:20 <sipa> MagicalTux: what timezone?
416 2011-04-19 06:20:23 <netxshare> 121/122
417 2011-04-19 06:20:27 <netxshare> tho I am using some commands
418 2011-04-19 06:20:36 <netxshare> -f 64 -w 128 or something like that
419 2011-04-19 06:20:37 <Diablo-D3> which ones?
420 2011-04-19 06:20:42 <netxshare> oh and -v
421 2011-04-19 06:20:50 <Diablo-D3> erm, -f should be a multiple or divsor of 60
422 2011-04-19 06:20:53 <MagicalTux> sipa, blockexplorer's timezone
423 2011-04-19 06:20:57 <Diablo-D3> and my miner doesnt use -v
424 2011-04-19 06:21:04 <netxshare> maybe that's not what I am using then
425 2011-04-19 06:21:06 <netxshare> let me check
426 2011-04-19 06:21:27 <Diablo-D3> and -w 64 is the default on my miner, its generally superior
427 2011-04-19 06:24:35 <netxshare> -v -a 5 -f 1 -w 256
428 2011-04-19 06:25:32 <Diablo-D3> mine doesnt use -v or -a
429 2011-04-19 06:25:34 <netxshare> these drivers do not like that setting anymore
430 2011-04-19 06:25:35 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure what -a is
431 2011-04-19 06:26:05 <netxshare> aggression
432 2011-04-19 06:26:15 <Diablo-D3> yeah but whats it do?
433 2011-04-19 06:26:32 <netxshare> help.txt in rpc-miner says
434 2011-04-19 06:26:33 <netxshare> ion=X
435 2011-04-19 06:26:50 <Diablo-D3> uh, wtf?
436 2011-04-19 06:26:56 <Diablo-D3> that meanst
437 2011-04-19 06:27:00 <Diablo-D3> -a overrides -f
438 2011-04-19 06:27:20 <Diablo-D3> since -f tries to set kernel length by time
439 2011-04-19 06:28:04 <sipa> maybe one influences worksize, and the other an inner loop?
440 2011-04-19 06:28:13 <Diablo-D3> sipa: doubt it.
441 2011-04-19 06:28:27 <netxshare> I just started to play with settings
442 2011-04-19 06:28:35 <netxshare> put those in and got much more then any other setting
443 2011-04-19 06:28:36 <Diablo-D3> because 1024 is the most optimum for 5xxx/6xxx no matter what
444 2011-04-19 06:28:54 <netxshare> -v is what gives me 122
445 2011-04-19 06:29:02 <netxshare> I just changed it to do -v only
446 2011-04-19 06:29:06 <netxshare> and I am getting -122
447 2011-04-19 06:29:13 <Diablo-D3> yeah, and -v shouldnt work
448 2011-04-19 06:29:14 <netxshare> er 121/122
449 2011-04-19 06:29:16 <Diablo-D3> its a gross hack
450 2011-04-19 06:29:20 <netxshare> lol
451 2011-04-19 06:29:27 <netxshare> maybe I should not use it then
452 2011-04-19 06:29:41 <Diablo-D3> well, it abuses vectors to implictly force vector math where it doesnt belong
453 2011-04-19 06:29:59 <Diablo-D3> the compiler is far better at doing this correctly
454 2011-04-19 06:30:12 <netxshare> what is the difference between poclbm and poclbm-mod?
455 2011-04-19 06:30:25 <Diablo-D3> dunno
456 2011-04-19 06:31:47 <netxshare> has anyone used your kernel with poclbm?
457 2011-04-19 06:32:02 <Diablo-D3> its art's kernel
458 2011-04-19 06:32:09 <netxshare> oh
459 2011-04-19 06:32:11 <Diablo-D3> both my miner and poclbm uses it
460 2011-04-19 06:32:14 <Pander> netxshare, yes bu accident
461 2011-04-19 06:32:19 <Pander> bu=by
462 2011-04-19 06:32:27 <netxshare> so they are both the same
463 2011-04-19 06:32:30 <Diablo-D3> mostly
464 2011-04-19 06:32:33 <netxshare> I see
465 2011-04-19 06:32:37 <Diablo-D3> he obviously has modifications to make -v work
466 2011-04-19 06:32:42 <netxshare> yeah
467 2011-04-19 06:32:57 <netxshare> oh I see it now // ArtForz's kernel hehe
468 2011-04-19 06:33:45 <gribble> 119086
469 2011-04-19 06:33:45 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
470 2011-04-19 06:33:53 <netxshare> ill give cuda another shot at compiling
471 2011-04-19 06:34:42 <Diablo-D3> whats poclbm do without -v?
472 2011-04-19 06:35:49 <Pander> does poclmb use all my 4 cores if I say to use -d0 ?
473 2011-04-19 06:35:57 <Pander> i.e. CPU cores
474 2011-04-19 06:36:41 <netxshare> 115/117
475 2011-04-19 06:37:00 <netxshare> nope staying at 115 now
476 2011-04-19 06:38:35 <Diablo-D3> so its basically identical to mine
477 2011-04-19 06:38:47 <Diablo-D3> Pander: it doesnt use any cpu cores, really.
478 2011-04-19 06:38:55 <Diablo-D3> its single threaded and idle 99% of the time
479 2011-04-19 06:39:27 <MagicalTux> did someone stop mining?
480 2011-04-19 06:39:37 <MagicalTux> (or is the whole network unlucky?)
481 2011-04-19 06:40:03 <Pander> Diablo-D3: if I have 2x dual radeon, should I use -d1, ..., -d4? what is -d0 then?
482 2011-04-19 06:40:20 <Pander> ah, you mean single thread on CPU or GPU?
483 2011-04-19 06:40:56 <rly> Pander: CPU
484 2011-04-19 06:40:59 <Diablo-D3> single CPU thread.
485 2011-04-19 06:41:03 <Diablo-D3> Pander: on my miner, you dont need that.
486 2011-04-19 06:41:04 <gribble> 0.991478371038
487 2011-04-19 06:41:04 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 700000000 45m
488 2011-04-19 06:41:12 <Diablo-D3> it selects all GPUs and uses them
489 2011-04-19 06:42:30 <Pander> thnx
490 2011-04-19 06:44:03 <Diablo-D3> I dont know why poclbm ever did stuff that way
491 2011-04-19 06:44:03 <netxshare> deepbit.net is still going
492 2011-04-19 06:44:13 <Diablo-D3> running multiple miners == fail
493 2011-04-19 06:44:27 <netxshare> yours selects them all and makes new threads for each one?
494 2011-04-19 06:44:57 <Diablo-D3> well, 3 threads per gpu
495 2011-04-19 06:45:06 <Diablo-D3> it does multiple queue stuffing
496 2011-04-19 06:45:20 <netxshare> well at least it does that
497 2011-04-19 06:45:33 <Diablo-D3> it also helps with pool mining
498 2011-04-19 06:45:43 <Diablo-D3> http accesses dont block mining
499 2011-04-19 06:45:54 <netxshare> does it support long poll
500 2011-04-19 06:46:05 <Diablo-D3> no, I dont see value in long poll
501 2011-04-19 06:46:33 <Diablo-D3> I'm also writing pool software
502 2011-04-19 06:46:36 <netxshare> pool ops just like it when you use ones that do
503 2011-04-19 06:46:37 <netxshare> yeah
504 2011-04-19 06:46:42 <netxshare> that's what I have been working on
505 2011-04-19 06:46:48 <Diablo-D3> so Im probably just going to implement my own mining api
506 2011-04-19 06:47:23 <netxshare> I just need a setup like deepbit
507 2011-04-19 06:47:35 <Diablo-D3> well, mine'd be more like slush's
508 2011-04-19 06:47:41 <netxshare> or one that will just allow a unlimited number of computers to mine
509 2011-04-19 06:47:47 <netxshare> whats his url, ill have to check it out
510 2011-04-19 06:47:52 <netxshare> only used deepbit
511 2011-04-19 06:48:30 <Diablo-D3> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
512 2011-04-19 06:49:04 <netxshare> I figured they all pay about the same
513 2011-04-19 06:49:39 <rly> Diablo-D3: with all the default options, yours gets only 73M/s on a 5770.
514 2011-04-19 06:49:56 <Diablo-D3> rly: sounds like your system is configured wrong
515 2011-04-19 06:50:05 <Diablo-D3> you should be on catalyst 10.9 through 11, plus sdk 2.1
516 2011-04-19 06:50:38 <rly> Diablo-D3: I did make a mistake.
517 2011-04-19 06:50:50 <Diablo-D3> oh?
518 2011-04-19 06:51:02 <rly> Diablo-D3: for some reason the other miner also kept running.
519 2011-04-19 06:51:07 <Diablo-D3> hah
520 2011-04-19 06:51:23 <rly> It now doesn't come further than 145M/s.
521 2011-04-19 06:52:20 <Diablo-D3> what, a 5770?
522 2011-04-19 06:52:46 <Diablo-D3> 64 is the most optimum
523 2011-04-19 06:52:50 <rly> Diablo-D3: yes
524 2011-04-19 06:52:57 <Diablo-D3> what driver and sdk are you on?
525 2011-04-19 06:53:00 <rly> I see I made yet another mistake.
526 2011-04-19 06:53:23 <Diablo-D3> oh?
527 2011-04-19 06:53:36 <netxshare> what are you writing your pool code in?
528 2011-04-19 06:53:41 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: java.
529 2011-04-19 06:54:42 <netxshare> ah
530 2011-04-19 06:55:31 <netxshare> do all of these pools use their own code or are they using a open source
531 2011-04-19 06:56:15 <Diablo-D3> all closed source
532 2011-04-19 06:56:16 <rly> Diablo-D3: about every 5 seconds I get that bitcoin is not connected, but it is hashing.
533 2011-04-19 06:56:26 <Diablo-D3> rly: then its not connected
534 2011-04-19 06:56:34 <Diablo-D3> what args are you feeding it?
535 2011-04-19 06:56:51 <ersi> netxshare: Feel free to code an open one, it'll probably be used quickly
536 2011-04-19 06:56:59 <rly> ps aux | grep bitcoind says it has been started.
537 2011-04-19 06:57:02 <ersi> A bazillion pools spawning and dying at the same time
538 2011-04-19 06:57:26 <rly> I also do not get why it is hashing if it is not connected.
539 2011-04-19 06:58:33 <rly> Diablo-D3: cd $HOME/src/DiabloMiner && ./DiabloMiner-Linux.sh -w 64 -u u -p p
540 2011-04-19 06:58:46 <Diablo-D3> rly: -w 64 is the default anyways
541 2011-04-19 06:59:07 <Diablo-D3> rly: are you sure your -u and -p are right? do other miners connect fine?
542 2011-04-19 06:59:18 <rly> Diablo-D3: yes and yes
543 2011-04-19 06:59:34 <Diablo-D3> huh. is your u and p sane?
544 2011-04-19 06:59:50 <rly> Diablo-D3: now it has been a few minutes since the last cannot connect.
545 2011-04-19 06:59:54 <netxshare> I do like Estimated reward data on that site
546 2011-04-19 07:00:02 <netxshare> instead of waiting 1 hour for it to update
547 2011-04-19 07:00:03 <rly> Diablo-D3: still it is 10M slower than the Python one.
548 2011-04-19 07:00:11 <rly> Er 14M/s
549 2011-04-19 07:00:41 <Diablo-D3> rly: shouldnt be. try -f 1 and wait like 5 minutes
550 2011-04-19 07:00:54 <Diablo-D3> and you still havent answered, which catalyst, which version of the sdk
551 2011-04-19 07:01:28 <rly> Diablo-D3: shouldn't yours be faster than the Python one regardless of those variables?
552 2011-04-19 07:01:38 <Diablo-D3> not quite
553 2011-04-19 07:01:50 <Diablo-D3> it makes the drivers do stupid shit sometimes
554 2011-04-19 07:05:19 <ArtForz> well, just looking at em too hard makes the drivers do stupid shit
555 2011-04-19 07:05:47 <netxshare> mine are getting mad
556 2011-04-19 07:06:10 <netxshare> everytime I stop the miner they stop responding
557 2011-04-19 07:06:38 <Diablo-D3> happens if you use low -f values, its harmless
558 2011-04-19 07:07:15 <Diablo-D3> you know what
559 2011-04-19 07:07:20 <Diablo-D3> m0's doesnt implement loops at all
560 2011-04-19 07:07:23 <Diablo-D3> I wonder why
561 2011-04-19 07:07:47 <ArtForz> too high kernel exec time makes the drivers freak
562 2011-04-19 07:09:44 <Diablo-D3> rly: you're using -w 64 on poclbm too?
563 2011-04-19 07:18:52 <netxshare> ooo
564 2011-04-19 07:18:54 <netxshare> crashed
565 2011-04-19 07:19:03 <netxshare> system restarted
566 2011-04-19 07:19:14 <Diablo-D3> nice :D
567 2011-04-19 07:19:33 <netxshare> ever since I installed these drivers
568 2011-04-19 07:19:44 <Diablo-D3> which ones?
569 2011-04-19 07:22:18 <rly> Diablo-D3: no -w 128. I now installed the 2.4 SDK, but now it doesn't work at all anymore. Error: Compilation from LLVMIR binary to IL text failed!
570 2011-04-19 07:22:39 <Diablo-D3> 2.4 requires 11.1 and up
571 2011-04-19 07:23:06 <rly> Diablo-D3: ok (the software (compiler infrastructure) should say that)
572 2011-04-19 07:23:12 <netxshare> the dev drivers
573 2011-04-19 07:23:15 <Diablo-D3> the website you download it from say this.
574 2011-04-19 07:23:19 <netxshare> and then they released new ones today
575 2011-04-19 07:23:20 <Diablo-D3> *says
576 2011-04-19 07:23:42 <netxshare> 270.61
577 2011-04-19 07:24:16 <Diablo-D3> thats nivida =P
578 2011-04-19 07:34:41 <ArtForz> octal chicken
579 2011-04-19 07:37:12 <Diablo-D3> you can now adjust loop size on my miner
580 2011-04-19 07:39:32 <slush> I just found 5870 in bazaar, owner wrote 'picture suddenly failed during gaming'. But there is real chance that mining will still work, right?
581 2011-04-19 07:39:52 <ArtForz> maybe, possibly
582 2011-04-19 07:39:52 <slush> it is 7$ including shipping...
583 2011-04-19 07:39:58 <Diablo-D3> slush: $7? try it.
584 2011-04-19 07:39:59 <netxshare> id buy it
585 2011-04-19 07:40:05 <ArtForz> if it has ref cooler, buy it
586 2011-04-19 07:40:10 <slush> yes
587 2011-04-19 07:40:16 <slush> ok, thanks :)
588 2011-04-19 07:40:18 <ArtForz> the cooler alone can be sold for $20+
589 2011-04-19 07:40:26 <ArtForz> so even if it's completely dead, it's a bargain
590 2011-04-19 07:40:50 <slush> :)
591 2011-04-19 07:41:58 <netxshare> hrm
592 2011-04-19 07:42:55 <Diablo-D3> hah
593 2011-04-19 07:44:34 <CIA-89> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r9306c65 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Loop length can now be configured with -z - http://bit.ly/idgJx9
594 2011-04-19 07:45:29 <netxshare> need to set CUDA_FORCE_PTX_JIT=1
595 2011-04-19 07:46:08 <Diablo-D3> hey rly
596 2011-04-19 07:46:21 <Diablo-D3> rly: download newest binary, try -z 0
597 2011-04-19 07:46:53 <mrb_> slush: then you can sell the cooler on ebay in an ad titled "HD 5870 (cooler) - $20!!"
598 2011-04-19 07:47:16 <rly> Diablo-D3: what does it do?
599 2011-04-19 07:47:23 <rly> Diablo-D3: did you make changes in the last few minutes?
600 2011-04-19 07:47:29 <Diablo-D3> yeah I just made changes
601 2011-04-19 07:47:34 <Diablo-D3> -z 0 turns looping off
602 2011-04-19 07:47:42 <mrb_> :)
603 2011-04-19 07:47:56 <rly> Diablo-D3: why would you want that?
604 2011-04-19 07:48:25 <slush> mrb_:  :)
605 2011-04-19 07:48:26 <Diablo-D3> because I want to know why m0's is faster in some cases
606 2011-04-19 07:48:31 <Diablo-D3> thats the ONLY difference.
607 2011-04-19 07:48:34 <rly> Diablo-D3: I am still figuring out how to get the damn 11.2 drivers to work.
608 2011-04-19 07:48:47 <Diablo-D3> rly: why 11.2? isnt 11.4 out now?
609 2011-04-19 07:48:57 <rly> Diablo-D3: I am trying to install it on Fedora 14.
610 2011-04-19 07:49:03 <Diablo-D3> heh.
611 2011-04-19 07:49:12 <rly> Diablo-D3: those people lag like hell.,
612 2011-04-19 07:49:30 <rly> Diablo-D3: what do you use?
613 2011-04-19 07:49:43 <Diablo-D3> debian
614 2011-04-19 07:49:53 <rly> Diablo-D3: do they package the latest and greatest?
615 2011-04-19 07:50:16 <Diablo-D3> in experimental, its about half a month behind
616 2011-04-19 07:50:22 <Diablo-D3> it has 11.3
617 2011-04-19 07:50:39 <Diablo-D3> rly: btw, you do realize 2.4 is slower than 2.1, right?
618 2011-04-19 07:50:43 <rly> I don't see why they cannot automate that stuff.
619 2011-04-19 07:50:47 <rly> Diablo-D3: I had been using 2.3
620 2011-04-19 07:50:52 <Diablo-D3> use 2.1
621 2011-04-19 07:51:04 <rly> Diablo-D3: I got 160Mh/s with 2.3, which was more than most people.
622 2011-04-19 07:51:14 <Diablo-D3> which sounds impossible.
623 2011-04-19 07:51:25 <rly> Except... it is not.
624 2011-04-19 07:51:39 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 should always be faster
625 2011-04-19 07:51:51 <Diablo-D3> it sounds like you wernt on catalyst 10.9 through 10.11
626 2011-04-19 07:52:01 <rly> I was on 10.12
627 2011-04-19 07:52:07 <Diablo-D3> 10.12 is... kind of shitty
628 2011-04-19 07:52:28 <rly> So, with the most shitty configuration I got 160Mh/s ;)
629 2011-04-19 07:52:48 <rly> Rebooting, let's hope they didn't mess things up this time.
630 2011-04-19 08:02:07 <Diablo-D3> and we never heard from rly again
631 2011-04-19 08:03:26 <retinal> (-ap;)
632 2011-04-19 08:03:54 <retinal> PG&E stinx
633 2011-04-19 08:04:18 <retinal> $0.40352/kWh for 200%+ baseline usage
634 2011-04-19 08:04:30 <Diablo-D3> in maine its still higher.
635 2011-04-19 08:05:16 <retinal> well, the thing is, there's a much better utilities provider in the neighboring county
636 2011-04-19 08:05:44 <retinal> I would be in said county if commuting didn't suck so much
637 2011-04-19 08:07:50 <Diablo-D3> you know how commuting works?
638 2011-04-19 08:08:07 <Diablo-D3> wow that was easy!
639 2011-04-19 08:08:43 <Diablo-D3> rly: it didnt work?
640 2011-04-19 08:10:08 <retinal> Diablo-D3: no car
641 2011-04-19 08:10:12 <retinal> (??????)
642 2011-04-19 08:10:35 <retinal> mainly because insurance prices are comical for someone in my age group
643 2011-04-19 08:11:09 <Diablo-D3> I dont have a car either.
644 2011-04-19 08:11:10 <Diablo-D3> in maine.
645 2011-04-19 08:11:44 <retinal> public transportation, then?
646 2011-04-19 08:12:10 <Diablo-D3> in maine? it doesnt exist
647 2011-04-19 08:12:22 <rly> Diablo-D3: 10.12 is still 'active' according to the control center.
648 2011-04-19 08:12:28 <rly> Diablo-D3: it is crapware.
649 2011-04-19 08:12:29 <Diablo-D3> pwned.
650 2011-04-19 08:12:33 <Diablo-D3> try -z 0 now.
651 2011-04-19 08:12:48 <rly> Diablo-D3: no, I first want to use 11.2.
652 2011-04-19 08:12:53 <Diablo-D3> dude
653 2011-04-19 08:13:00 <Diablo-D3> quit moving the goalposts
654 2011-04-19 08:13:19 <Diablo-D3> see if -z 0 makes it as fast poclbm
655 2011-04-19 08:13:22 <rly> Diablo-D3: I have 2.4 installed now.
656 2011-04-19 08:13:29 <Diablo-D3> dude, its a zip file
657 2011-04-19 08:13:30 <rly> Diablo-D3: I cannot test it with a broken configuration.
658 2011-04-19 08:13:34 <Diablo-D3> its not like you install it
659 2011-04-19 08:15:30 <mizerydearia> When renting an apartment, is it common practice for applicants to have their credit checked before being accepted?  If so, without credit cards, us dollar and instead making use of bitcoin to handle payment for renting apartment, etc, what type of alternative to credit checks seems likely?
660 2011-04-19 08:15:42 <netxshare> $*@*#
661 2011-04-19 08:15:59 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: yes.
662 2011-04-19 08:16:13 <Diablo-D3> and you got confused somewhere along the wway
663 2011-04-19 08:16:18 <Diablo-D3> they check credit and look for negatives
664 2011-04-19 08:16:36 <Diablo-D3> if you have a blank report, they accept you
665 2011-04-19 08:17:02 <Diablo-D3> they just wanna make sure you havent fucked a previous landlord
666 2011-04-19 08:17:52 <iera> we just have to establish an alternative rating system, with irc like in #bitcoin-otc lol
667 2011-04-19 08:18:05 <mizerydearia> hmm, well, for example, my Mom has difficulty finding place to live due to bad credit.
668 2011-04-19 08:18:18 <mizerydearia> but she has money
669 2011-04-19 08:18:36 <rly> That still didn't kill 10.12.
670 2011-04-19 08:18:54 <rly> A package management system is supposed to make things easier.
671 2011-04-19 08:19:58 <joepie91> guise
672 2011-04-19 08:19:59 <joepie91> http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/File:ED_First_Day_Crash_Stats.png
673 2011-04-19 08:20:00 <joepie91> seriously
674 2011-04-19 08:20:09 <joepie91> that is pretty much the most insane alexa drop that I've ever seen
675 2011-04-19 08:20:50 <AAA_awright> joepie91: Why?
676 2011-04-19 08:21:06 <joepie91> why what? why the drop? :P
677 2011-04-19 08:21:35 <AAA_awright> Why's it say "And nothing of value was lost"
678 2011-04-19 08:21:54 <joepie91> oh
679 2011-04-19 08:22:02 <joepie91> owner of encyclopedia dramatica
680 2011-04-19 08:22:05 <joepie91> decided to pull the plug
681 2011-04-19 08:22:07 <joepie91> out of nowhere
682 2011-04-19 08:22:19 <AAA_awright> But also, what's this have to do with #bitcoin-dev
683 2011-04-19 08:22:20 <joepie91> and redirect the domain to oh internet, which is basically a crappy SWF knowyourmeme-cloe
684 2011-04-19 08:22:22 <joepie91> clone*
685 2011-04-19 08:22:24 <joepie91> not much
686 2011-04-19 08:22:27 <joepie91> but it was just insane to see
687 2011-04-19 08:23:36 <da2ce7> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY&feature=player_embedded#at=58
688 2011-04-19 08:23:38 <da2ce7> zomg
689 2011-04-19 08:23:55 <da2ce7> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY
690 2011-04-19 08:24:14 <AAA_awright> Also, everyone short Bank of America
691 2011-04-19 08:25:09 <AAA_awright> Hmm maybe it's not going anywhere
692 2011-04-19 08:30:05 <ezl> ;;bc,mtgox
693 2011-04-19 08:30:06 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.18,"low":1.12,"vol":17253,"buy":1.151,"sell":1.1775,"last":1.1793}}
694 2011-04-19 08:40:16 <Diablo-D3> [06:18:05] <mizerydearia> hmm, well, for example, my Mom has difficulty finding place to live due to bad credit.
695 2011-04-19 08:40:23 <Diablo-D3> mizerydearia: then maybe she shouldnt screw people
696 2011-04-19 08:41:25 <mizerydearia> I agree
697 2011-04-19 08:42:57 <ne0futur> or move to another country :p
698 2011-04-19 08:43:16 <Diablo-D3> ne0futur: doesnt always work
699 2011-04-19 08:43:53 <Diablo-D3> unless you speak japanese, whats the point
700 2011-04-19 08:44:01 <Diablo-D3> and they dont look kindly on gaijin anyhow
701 2011-04-19 08:44:01 <mizerydearia> Maybe Fukushima or near Sendai prefecture might be nice place to live
702 2011-04-19 08:44:10 <Diablo-D3> Heh.
703 2011-04-19 08:44:57 <rly> Good housing prices there.
704 2011-04-19 08:45:06 <mizerydearia> Diablo-D3, I studied Japanese language four years in high school.
705 2011-04-19 08:45:30 <da2ce7> ;;bc.mtgox
706 2011-04-19 08:45:30 <gribble> Error: "bc.mtgox" is not a valid command.
707 2011-04-19 08:45:31 <rly> No pesky neighbors, good wireless connectivity over long ranges in the middle of the town.
708 2011-04-19 08:45:37 <da2ce7> ;;bc,mtgox
709 2011-04-19 08:45:37 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.18,"low":1.12,"vol":17487,"buy":1.1521,"sell":1.1785,"last":1.178}}
710 2011-04-19 08:45:37 <mizerydearia> ;;bc,mtgox
711 2011-04-19 08:45:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.18,"low":1.12,"vol":17487,"buy":1.1521,"sell":1.1785,"last":1.178}}
712 2011-04-19 08:45:41 <mizerydearia> o_X
713 2011-04-19 08:45:59 <ArtForz> thats actually not *that* crazy
714 2011-04-19 08:49:08 <mrb_> says the guy who now makes $13k/mo mining :)
715 2011-04-19 08:49:55 <ArtForz> friend of mine basically lives in the eu equivalent of a superfund site
716 2011-04-19 08:51:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: heh, surprised hes not dead
717 2011-04-19 08:51:33 <ArtForz> mainly heavy metal and arsenic contamination
718 2011-04-19 08:52:56 <ArtForz> mainly ground and surface water, though some of the buildings also have dangerous levels in dust
719 2011-04-19 08:53:05 <Diablo-D3> so why hasnt the site been closed/
720 2011-04-19 08:53:55 <ArtForz> well, it mostly is
721 2011-04-19 08:54:36 <rly> What is a superfund site?
722 2011-04-19 08:54:52 <Diablo-D3> rly: areas that made people rich.
723 2011-04-19 08:55:03 <Diablo-D3> lies, corruption, and greed in physical form.
724 2011-04-19 08:55:18 <Diablo-D3> extremely toxic to human life.
725 2011-04-19 08:55:59 <rly> Diablo-D3: like Sillicon Valley too? Or more like the Niger delta?
726 2011-04-19 08:56:08 <ArtForz> well, don't lick the basement walls.
727 2011-04-19 08:57:06 <Diablo-D3> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Superfund
728 2011-04-19 09:02:25 <rly> ArtForz: why does he live there?
729 2011-04-19 09:02:38 <rly> Is that his secret hide out? ;)
730 2011-04-19 09:04:22 <rly> That seems like a lot of places o.O: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Superfund_sites.svg
731 2011-04-19 09:06:19 <Diablo-D3> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/utter-PR-fiction-but-people-love-this-shit-so-fuck-it-lets-just-print-it-2269573.html
732 2011-04-19 09:09:07 <topi`> is there any political channel for bitcoin?
733 2011-04-19 09:09:32 <Blitzboom> #bitcoin-politics
734 2011-04-19 09:10:08 <topi`> right
735 2011-04-19 09:11:29 <Diablo-D3> ahaha
736 2011-04-19 09:11:47 <Diablo-D3> all of xel's transactions
737 2011-04-19 09:11:48 <Diablo-D3> JUST
738 2011-04-19 09:11:51 <Diablo-D3> got into the chain
739 2011-04-19 09:12:13 <Diablo-D3> 35 hours give or take
740 2011-04-19 09:12:30 <Diablo-D3> or 196 blocks
741 2011-04-19 09:28:49 <topi`> previously, we were talking about the feasibility or infeasibility of doing point-of-sale (POS) operations with bitcoin
742 2011-04-19 09:54:47 <topi`> sipa: but how can the seller know if the client has full p2p node or not?
743 2011-04-19 09:54:55 <sipa> not
744 2011-04-19 09:55:04 <sipa> unfortunate, so he shouldn't assume he hasn't
745 2011-04-19 09:55:28 <topi`> ArtForz: I agree, you want to have your own display if you want to be certain that there is no trickery
746 2011-04-19 09:56:13 <topi`> sipa: also I have a full p2p bitcoin node, and still trade with ppl on #bitcoin-otc
747 2011-04-19 09:56:21 <topi`> and they trust I'm not double-spending!
748 2011-04-19 10:11:44 <rly> Diablo-D3: I still get the same error when I run yours, but the Python one works when I select the AMD parallel platform.
749 2011-04-19 10:11:53 <Kiba> dun dun dunnnnnn
750 2011-04-19 10:29:20 <Incitatus> hey what is the IRC to see the block feeds?
751 2011-04-19 10:30:35 <sipa> see #bitcoin-watch
752 2011-04-19 10:30:50 <Incitatus> thank you
753 2011-04-19 10:39:45 <netxshare> how much bandwidth does bitcoin use?
754 2011-04-19 10:41:13 <trifon_> netxsahre, once you load all block not much.
755 2011-04-19 10:41:27 <trifon_> it uses lot of GPU :)
756 2011-04-19 10:41:39 <netxshare> that's what I figured
757 2011-04-19 10:42:55 <topi`> netxshare: I tried to measure it, and it averaged out at 5 kilobytes per second
758 2011-04-19 10:43:22 <topi`> although, I think that also included my IRC traffic etc ,)
759 2011-04-19 10:44:18 <netxshare> thanks
760 2011-04-19 10:45:41 <topi`> but it definitely is less than that :)
761 2011-04-19 10:46:19 <BurtyB> I see about 30-40MB/day
762 2011-04-19 10:47:23 <BurtyB> (that's just for the bitcoin process on windows with ~20 connections)
763 2011-04-19 10:48:09 <tcoppi> ;;bc,stats
764 2011-04-19 10:48:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119116 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1843 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 21 hours, 12 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 92222.66560735
765 2011-04-19 10:59:43 <genjix> http://pastebin.com/GEHfQ0wc
766 2011-04-19 11:00:01 <BlueMatt> genjix: wrong version of miniupnp
767 2011-04-19 11:00:07 <genjix> wtf, how come it's including that header when UPNP=0?
768 2011-04-19 11:00:26 <BlueMatt> USE_UPNP=0 means build upnp with it off by default, USE_UPNP= means dont build
769 2011-04-19 11:00:40 <genjix> look at the compile line though
770 2011-04-19 11:00:50 <genjix> it has USE_UPNP=0
771 2011-04-19 11:00:58 <genjix> but still includes that header?
772 2011-04-19 11:01:03 <BlueMatt> genjix: ^
773 2011-04-19 11:01:25 <genjix> ahh so UPNP is defined but it equals 0... ok thanks :)
774 2011-04-19 11:01:38 <BlueMatt> but seriously, if anyone has a better idea please submit patches
775 2011-04-19 11:02:04 <genjix> no no it's ok. i have no beef with your patch, but im just trying to get my patch to work first
776 2011-04-19 11:02:05 <BlueMatt> although it might be better to use USE_UPNP=-1/0/1 or something
777 2011-04-19 11:02:18 <genjix> i just set UPNP:= in the makefile
778 2011-04-19 11:02:40 <BlueMatt> genjix: I know, its just quite a few people have been complaining about similar issues so...
779 2011-04-19 11:03:08 <genjix> what does upnp? it's a discovery library for peer2peer, right?
780 2011-04-19 11:03:17 <BlueMatt> it automatically maps the ports on your router
781 2011-04-19 11:03:24 <BlueMatt> provided upnp is enabled on your router
782 2011-04-19 11:03:31 <genjix> nice, to route around ports being blocked
783 2011-04-19 11:03:37 <BlueMatt> yea
784 2011-04-19 11:03:56 <genjix> so with encrypted traffic + upnp, bitcoin can never be blocked.
785 2011-04-19 11:04:04 <BlueMatt> not the idea
786 2011-04-19 11:04:04 <genjix> unless you shutdown the internet
787 2011-04-19 11:04:18 <BlueMatt> the idea of upnp is that people dont want to bother forwarding the ports on their router
788 2011-04-19 11:04:21 <BlueMatt> so upnp does it for them
789 2011-04-19 11:04:24 <genjix> oh ok
790 2011-04-19 11:04:43 <genjix> but doesnt it also help with isps that block ports?
791 2011-04-19 11:04:47 <BlueMatt> no
792 2011-04-19 11:04:52 <genjix> k
793 2011-04-19 11:05:04 <BlueMatt> its needed now that we have a bunch of non-techies joining and as we move into more mainstrea
794 2011-04-19 11:05:05 <BlueMatt> m
795 2011-04-19 11:05:21 <BlueMatt> because those people never touch their router config
796 2011-04-19 11:05:21 <genjix> right
797 2011-04-19 11:05:26 <Blitzboom> we need a mainstream client &
798 2011-04-19 11:05:33 <Blitzboom> something like the utorrent of bittorrent
799 2011-04-19 11:05:56 <BlueMatt> or we just need to make the current client a bit better then it can be the mainstream client ;)
800 2011-04-19 11:06:10 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: centralization sucks
801 2011-04-19 11:06:37 <Blitzboom> id rather have multiple widely used clients
802 2011-04-19 11:06:38 <BlueMatt> never said we dont want more clients, but that doesnt mean all of them shouldnt be good
803 2011-04-19 11:07:05 <BlueMatt> BitcoinJ?
804 2011-04-19 11:07:19 <sipa> bleh
805 2011-04-19 11:07:31 <sipa> java is nice, but it's not the only language i want to use
806 2011-04-19 11:07:49 <sipa> and if you want a de-facto library used by all "full clients", java is a bad choice i think
807 2011-04-19 11:07:51 <BlueMatt> true, so write libbitcoin
808 2011-04-19 11:08:05 <BlueMatt> and dont let Diablo hear you
809 2011-04-19 11:10:01 <BlueMatt> yea I dont think anyone has enough time to write it.  Plus its better to use your time to generate more hype around bitcoin than writing code for bitcoin
810 2011-04-19 11:11:22 <genjix> sipa: what about a bitcoin in python?
811 2011-04-19 11:12:02 <sipa> genjix: i think the only viable option for a libbitcoin to become a de-facto standard library for integrating bitcoin in some other project, is C
812 2011-04-19 11:14:01 <genjix> sipa: i see
813 2011-04-19 11:14:14 <genjix> sipa: not c++, right?
814 2011-04-19 11:14:21 <genjix> and how about using MySQL?
815 2011-04-19 11:14:31 <sipa> that's a backend question
816 2011-04-19 11:14:59 <sipa> and C++ code with a C wrapper around it for easy linking, isn't hard
817 2011-04-19 11:15:05 <genjix> right.
818 2011-04-19 11:15:20 <sipa> so that's possible as well, and maybe the best option if someone were to do it, to be able to reuse the bitcoin codebase
819 2011-04-19 11:15:39 <genjix> how about to write it in C++ but provide a C api?
820 2011-04-19 11:15:56 <sipa> yes, that's what i suggested
821 2011-04-19 11:15:58 <genjix> because memory management in C is pretty hard/sucky
822 2011-04-19 11:16:00 <genjix> ok
823 2011-04-19 11:17:38 <sipa> but ultimately you want something like: btcnode_t node; btcnode_init(&node); btcwallet_t wallet; btcwallet_register(&node,&wallet); ...
824 2011-04-19 11:18:51 <genjix> i see
825 2011-04-19 11:27:59 <genjix> the current github release branch doesn't work.
826 2011-04-19 11:28:06 <genjix> it's broken.
827 2011-04-19 11:28:26 <ByteCoin> Is someone making a bitcoin lib?
828 2011-04-19 11:28:57 <sipa> not afaik
829 2011-04-19 11:29:19 <Stellar> fatal error: miniupnpc/miniwget.h: No such file or directory
830 2011-04-19 11:29:25 <jaromil> ByteCoin: i'm maintaining my branch using autotools and libtool ultimately to achieve
831 2011-04-19 11:29:25 <Stellar> is that a lib?
832 2011-04-19 11:29:33 <iera> wasnt there some python bitcoin lib already?
833 2011-04-19 11:29:46 <genjix> the current release repo just hangs
834 2011-04-19 11:29:48 <sipa> Stellar: set USE_PNP= in your makefile
835 2011-04-19 11:29:56 <genjix> im using that and it compiled
836 2011-04-19 11:30:03 <genjix> but the daemon fails to fork
837 2011-04-19 11:30:22 <Stellar> ok
838 2011-04-19 11:30:29 <ByteCoin> I'm frustrated that the wallet handling rubbish is so mixed with the p2p blockchain and transaction handling stuff
839 2011-04-19 11:30:38 <genjix> right.
840 2011-04-19 11:30:51 <genjix> that's why a rewrite might be needed
841 2011-04-19 11:31:08 <genjix> i might be getting some resources to setup a bitcoin foundation
842 2011-04-19 11:31:11 <ByteCoin> One should be able to write secure wallet code
843 2011-04-19 11:31:11 <jaromil> ByteCoin: i'm also frustrated
844 2011-04-19 11:31:21 <genjix> that's my primary goal maybe
845 2011-04-19 11:31:53 <ByteCoin> Has anyone looked at the bitcoinj stuff?
846 2011-04-19 11:32:31 <ByteCoin> Does bitcoinj separate the wallet from the network process?
847 2011-04-19 11:32:42 <ByteCoin> I know it's not a full client
848 2011-04-19 11:33:20 <sipa> i think it does
849 2011-04-19 11:33:25 <sipa> its design is a lot cleaner
850 2011-04-19 11:33:48 <ByteCoin> Well it's nice to know that there's support for a modular design
851 2011-04-19 11:34:15 <ByteCoin> I have a bug in ljrbot to report... whom to contact?
852 2011-04-19 11:35:16 <sipa> luke-jr, i suppose
853 2011-04-19 11:35:23 <genjix> sipa: you reckon it's possible to refactor bitcoin to perfection? it *is* a tiny codebase
854 2011-04-19 11:35:24 <ByteCoin> Cheers!
855 2011-04-19 11:36:30 <sipa> i don't believe in perfection
856 2011-04-19 11:36:34 <sipa> :)
857 2011-04-19 11:36:43 <genjix> sipa: so your daemon-mode branch fixed the fork problem months ago
858 2011-04-19 11:36:56 <genjix> was it ever merged because now i see the release branch isn't forking.
859 2011-04-19 11:36:59 <sipa> i never implemented a daemon mode?
860 2011-04-19 11:37:07 <genjix> oh sorry i mean tcatm
861 2011-04-19 11:38:01 <Kiba> there is sure a lot of podcast with Gavin Andersen in it
862 2011-04-19 11:39:39 <jaromil> genjix: do a git checkout HEAD~1 or 2 or 3
863 2011-04-19 11:39:44 <jaromil> to go in the past
864 2011-04-19 11:39:47 <jaromil> and see how it works
865 2011-04-19 11:40:55 <jaromil> mmm, nvm. i can replicate the problem
866 2011-04-19 11:41:50 <Kiba> bitcoin critics are annoying
867 2011-04-19 11:41:56 <Kiba> they are uninformed and don't know anything
868 2011-04-19 11:45:17 <UukGoblin> hrm
869 2011-04-19 11:45:30 <Kiba> the major problem with the bitcoin critics is that they think bitcoin sucks so they don't join the community and learn
870 2011-04-19 11:45:56 <UukGoblin> is there a secure and anonymous electronic voting system that'd allow me to vote from my PC, whilst ensuring every citizen gets to vote once and once only?
871 2011-04-19 11:45:59 <Kiba> the community generated technical, economic, and business knowledge
872 2011-04-19 11:46:07 <Kiba> but these knowledge are not assimilated to the wider public
873 2011-04-19 11:46:19 <sipa> UukGoblin: not without having a unique identifier for each citizen
874 2011-04-19 11:46:45 <UukGoblin> sipa, yeah, it's hard
875 2011-04-19 11:46:55 <UukGoblin> you'd have to get the identifier physically or something
876 2011-04-19 11:46:58 <sipa> and not without risking "friendly people" going from door to door to "help" eg. elder people with their voting
877 2011-04-19 11:47:31 <UukGoblin> sipa, well that wouldn't be mandatory
878 2011-04-19 11:47:50 <UukGoblin> I'm thinking from a crypto-anarchic perspective
879 2011-04-19 11:48:02 <UukGoblin> or just cryptographic generally
880 2011-04-19 11:48:08 <Kiba> why would I want democracy 2.0?
881 2011-04-19 11:48:13 <sipa> cryptographically it's possible
882 2011-04-19 11:48:19 <UukGoblin> it seems it's one of the problems that cryptography can't solve ;-]
883 2011-04-19 11:48:27 <sipa> it is solved, afaik
884 2011-04-19 11:48:33 <UukGoblin> oh?
885 2011-04-19 11:48:42 <UukGoblin> do you happen to know a google keyword? :-]
886 2011-04-19 11:48:56 <sipa> you can let people vote, vote once only, lets everyone verify the result without revealing who voted what
887 2011-04-19 11:49:26 <sipa> sorry, no, a friend of mine (with a phd in cryptography) told me about it
888 2011-04-19 11:49:27 <UukGoblin> I mean, in a computer network
889 2011-04-19 11:49:39 <UukGoblin> where you can't verify physical presence
890 2011-04-19 11:49:52 <UukGoblin> well
891 2011-04-19 11:50:01 <UukGoblin> I guess you verify it once
892 2011-04-19 11:50:09 <edcba> choose a random number x let every ppl add a or b then substract x
893 2011-04-19 11:50:10 <UukGoblin> and then just use it later
894 2011-04-19 11:50:46 <sipa> edcba: that allows you to verify it, but not the rest :)