1 2011-04-24 00:00:00 <sethsethseth> 24?
  2 2011-04-24 00:00:22 <sethsethseth> wow, ok maybe i just have you order me a few and wire you money
  3 2011-04-24 00:00:30 <sethsethseth> or bitcoin escrow or smth
  4 2011-04-24 00:01:26 <jgarzik> netxshare: good lukc
  5 2011-04-24 00:01:28 <jgarzik> luck
  6 2011-04-24 00:01:37 <netxshare> I am not going to get them at once
  7 2011-04-24 00:01:42 <netxshare> that would not happen
  8 2011-04-24 00:01:44 <jgarzik> netxshare: you will probably wind up falling back to buying 6990s
  9 2011-04-24 00:01:50 <netxshare> yeah
 10 2011-04-24 00:02:00 <netxshare> I am trying to find as many used ones as I can
 11 2011-04-24 00:02:16 <netxshare> ill just keep buying them once they show up on ebay
 12 2011-04-24 00:02:55 <netxshare> but I am ordering a 6990 first I think
 13 2011-04-24 00:03:28 <jgarzik> netxshare: plenty of bitcoiners watch the ebay stocks of 5970 and 6990 ;)
 14 2011-04-24 00:03:44 <netxshare> okay
 15 2011-04-24 00:03:58 <netxshare> does not mean I can't buy them too
 16 2011-04-24 00:04:02 <jgarzik> oh, certainly
 17 2011-04-24 00:04:17 <jgarzik> You've probably bid against me, more than once, then :)
 18 2011-04-24 00:04:24 <netxshare> not yet
 19 2011-04-24 00:04:33 <netxshare> but ill just run a sniper
 20 2011-04-24 00:04:36 <netxshare> and set my max bid high
 21 2011-04-24 00:05:15 <netxshare> there is a fine line between making it worth it and not
 22 2011-04-24 00:05:24 <netxshare> if I can't get a used one at the price I want
 23 2011-04-24 00:05:31 <netxshare> then ill just buy a new 6990
 24 2011-04-24 00:05:43 <netxshare> tho
 25 2011-04-24 00:06:00 <netxshare> I think I have seen a few stores with new 5970s
 26 2011-04-24 00:08:24 <netxshare> "Short Skirt/Long Jacket" by "Cake" - theme song to Chuck?
 27 2011-04-24 00:08:38 <netxshare> yep haha
 28 2011-04-24 00:09:19 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr bitcoin-ng * rda7ae67af131 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/bitcoin: bugfix: fix dosym http://tinyurl.com/3syakrh
 29 2011-04-24 00:09:20 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr bitcoin-ng * raf3226feef10 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-0.3.21_rc.ebuild): net-p2p/bitcoin: 0.3.21_rc http://tinyurl.com/3rwz92f
 30 2011-04-24 00:26:50 <gribble> On #bitcoin-dev there have been 464086 messages, containing 20786291 characters, 3690560 words, 21214 smileys, and 1278 frowns; 5308 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 34046 joins, 1553 parts, 32256 quits, 18 kicks, 413 mode changes, and 17 topic changes.  There are currently 265 users and the channel has peaked at 280 users.
 31 2011-04-24 00:26:50 <sgornick> ;;channelstats
 32 2011-04-24 00:36:26 <programe> jgarzik: im trying to build pushpool but i get this error http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.40;wap2
 33 2011-04-24 00:36:37 <programe> jgarzik: do you know how i can solve it
 34 2011-04-24 00:38:58 <programe> jgarzik: seems like its not finding curl
 35 2011-04-24 00:40:54 <programe> or my libcurl installation lacks autoconf macro
 36 2011-04-24 00:49:19 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr bitcoin-ng * r8f1c565e046a gentoo/net-p2p/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into bitcoin-ng http://tinyurl.com/3todzkv
 37 2011-04-24 00:49:20 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr bitcoin-ng * r3a26a5567ffe gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (13 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoin: revamp all older versions with new ebuild template http://tinyurl.com/42386jx
 38 2011-04-24 00:51:36 <sacarlson> isn't no mater how many people mine for bitcoin that the total average mined in a day be about 7200 coins?  so what would the averge return on a single gpu system be?
 39 2011-04-24 00:52:06 <luke-jr> sacarlson: depends on the GPU, and what it's competing with :P
 40 2011-04-24 00:52:25 <jgarzik> sacarlson: ;;bc,gen
 41 2011-04-24 00:52:31 <jgarzik> ;;bc,gen 535000
 42 2011-04-24 00:52:32 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 535000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 5.82709497958 BTC per day and 0.242795624149 BTC per hour.
 43 2011-04-24 00:52:43 <luke-jr> sacarlson: also, it's technically ~144 coins per day, but each coin is 50 BTC value
 44 2011-04-24 00:52:46 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 800000
 45 2011-04-24 00:52:48 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 8.71341305358 BTC per day and 0.363058877232 BTC per hour.
 46 2011-04-24 00:52:56 <sacarlson> I should have known that
 47 2011-04-24 00:55:15 <RenaKunisaki> ;;bc,gen 0.001
 48 2011-04-24 00:55:16 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 0.001 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.0891766317e-08 BTC per day and 4.53823596541e-10 BTC per hour.
 49 2011-04-24 00:55:21 <RenaKunisaki> haha
 50 2011-04-24 00:56:15 <sacarlson> last I checked with my computer it would take 12 years for a payoff so I didn't look much closer at it
 51 2011-04-24 01:03:56 <sacarlson> seems my test run last night was a bit of a failure with my setting of my new chain of MAX_MONEY = 50, I wake up and now I still have 95 coins produced
 52 2011-04-24 01:05:20 <sacarlson> so maybe the fact that I had it set to MAX_MONEY = 1000 when I first created the chain my be a part of that?
 53 2011-04-24 01:06:22 <theymos> MAX_MONEY isn't used for hardly anything.
 54 2011-04-24 01:06:42 <programe> jgarzik: im trying to compile pushpool
 55 2011-04-24 01:06:50 <sacarlson> theymos: I thought that was the point the the chain would stop creating more coins?
 56 2011-04-24 01:07:06 <theymos> sacarlson: No. You need to edit GetBlockValue to change that.
 57 2011-04-24 01:07:30 <sacarlson> theymos: ok let me look at that
 58 2011-04-24 01:07:45 <jgarzik> programe: compile from tarball: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/pushpool-0.3.tar.gz
 59 2011-04-24 01:07:57 <jgarzik> programe: building from git requires that you have proper autoconf macros
 60 2011-04-24 01:08:14 <programe> jgarzik: yeah its missing the libcurl one i think
 61 2011-04-24 01:08:23 <programe> jgarzik: thats the latest tarball_
 62 2011-04-24 01:08:44 <sacarlson> theymos: oh so it must be this value that needed changing  nSubsidy >>= (nHeight / 210000);
 63 2011-04-24 01:08:52 <theymos> Yes.
 64 2011-04-24 01:09:01 <jgarzik> programe: yes
 65 2011-04-24 01:09:05 <programe> jgarzik: is 0.3 the latest tarball great
 66 2011-04-24 01:09:21 <sacarlson> theymos: wow cool thanks , but now it will take me another day to test it
 67 2011-04-24 01:09:23 <programe> jgarzik: ill help you with the pushpool project i have 14 years programming experience
 68 2011-04-24 01:09:52 <jgarzik> programe: patches welcome!
 69 2011-04-24 01:10:16 <programe> jgarzik: is pushpool secure or the miners will be able to cheat, is there nay backdoor_
 70 2011-04-24 01:10:57 <programe> any
 71 2011-04-24 01:11:02 <jgarzik> programe: search for if (!strcmp(username, "jgarzik")) in the code.  That is the location of the backdoor.
 72 2011-04-24 01:11:06 <jgarzik> j/k :)
 73 2011-04-24 01:11:11 <programe> lol
 74 2011-04-24 01:11:20 <programe> but there are any known bugs that you want me to fix first
 75 2011-04-24 01:11:34 <programe> jgarzik: is the code secure or miners will be able to cheat the pool
 76 2011-04-24 01:11:39 <jgarzik> programe: it is secure as any other program...
 77 2011-04-24 01:12:07 <jgarzik> programe: pushpool just records shares for the current block.  anything beyond that is up to the site operator.
 78 2011-04-24 01:12:22 <jgarzik> programe: i.e. score-based versus share-based
 79 2011-04-24 01:12:46 <programe> jgarzik: so basically pushpool listens for miner clients connections, each miner gets it own work
 80 2011-04-24 01:13:14 <programe> jgarzik: and then the miner does the work and sends it back to pushpool, and pushpool records how much that miner contributed, right
 81 2011-04-24 01:13:18 <jgarzik> programe: pushpool is a proxy for 'getwork' RPCs originating from bitcoind
 82 2011-04-24 01:13:54 <jgarzik> programe: yep.  and if the hash value is low enough, it is submitted to bitcoind as proof-of-work.
 83 2011-04-24 01:14:05 <programe> jgarzik: i see cool
 84 2011-04-24 01:14:17 <jgarzik> and it syslogs the fabled
 85 2011-04-24 01:14:19 <jgarzik> Apr 24 01:25:31 us2 pushpoold[1440]: PROOF-OF-WORK found
 86 2011-04-24 01:15:40 <programe> jgarzik: i see, so basically with pushpool ill be able to distribute proportionally the coins to the miners client
 87 2011-04-24 01:16:12 <programe> jgarzik: i mean depending on how many hashes each miner contributed
 88 2011-04-24 01:16:37 <luke-jr> jgarzik: does pushpool keep track of the current state of rewards (eg, orphaned or not)
 89 2011-04-24 01:16:38 <luke-jr> ?
 90 2011-04-24 01:19:50 <programe> jgarzik: off course im going to submit you patches
 91 2011-04-24 01:19:59 <programe> jgarzik: but first i need to be able to compile it lol
 92 2011-04-24 01:22:30 <jgarzik> luke-jr: it records full solution accepted at the time, shares contributed towards each round, etc.  it's up to your system to take it from there, and handle orphans.
 93 2011-04-24 01:22:58 <jgarzik> luke-jr: pushpool just proxies work, records shares, that's it.
 94 2011-04-24 01:23:03 <jgarzik> tries to be as simple as possible.
 95 2011-04-24 01:23:40 <programe> jgarzik. so basically i need to run bitcoind with pushpool right
 96 2011-04-24 01:23:47 <jgarzik> programe: correct
 97 2011-04-24 01:24:26 <programe> jgarzik. and bitcoind is included on the tarball or i can just connect to a windows bitcoind-
 98 2011-04-24 01:26:00 <programe> jgarzik i can use pushpool to proxy to any bitcoind that be running on any machine right it doesnt need to be localhost
 99 2011-04-24 01:27:03 <programe> so to compile the tarball i just run configure then make and then make install_
100 2011-04-24 01:27:10 <programe> isnt_
101 2011-04-24 01:29:24 <phantomcircuit> theoretically yes
102 2011-04-24 01:30:06 <luke-jr> programe: I think it uses signals to communicate with bitcoind
103 2011-04-24 01:30:34 <programe> luke-jr i see so it should be only localhost
104 2011-04-24 01:30:38 <programe> right
105 2011-04-24 01:33:34 <programe> jgarzik it says too few arguments to funcion json_loads
106 2011-04-24 01:34:31 <jgarzik> programe: you need jansson 1.x
107 2011-04-24 01:34:46 <programe> jgarzik; i already installed jansson
108 2011-04-24 01:35:00 <jgarzik> programe: you installed jansson 2.x
109 2011-04-24 01:35:04 <programe> ah i see i have jansson 2.x
110 2011-04-24 01:35:10 <programe> let me remove it and install 1.x
111 2011-04-24 01:35:36 <jgarzik> luke-jr: ?
112 2011-04-24 01:35:47 <jgarzik> luke-jr: pushpool is an HTTP JSON-RPC proxy
113 2011-04-24 01:35:52 <jgarzik> luke-jr: bitcoind can be anywhere
114 2011-04-24 01:36:12 <jgarzik> not sure what signals you're referring to
115 2011-04-24 01:36:17 <programe> jgarzik. pushpool just provents the client miners to issue sendcoins commands, etc right- and records the shares
116 2011-04-24 01:36:28 <programe> prevents
117 2011-04-24 01:36:41 <jgarzik> programe: pushpool allows 'getwork' and nothing else
118 2011-04-24 01:37:09 <programe> jgarzik yes thats what i mean it doesnt allow the client miners to issue sendcoin to the bitcoind its proxying to
119 2011-04-24 01:37:18 <programe> it just allows getwork
120 2011-04-24 01:37:49 <programe> jansson 1.3 should be good right
121 2011-04-24 01:38:09 <jgarzik> yes
122 2011-04-24 01:39:01 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I saw something about a signal in the config
123 2011-04-24 01:40:15 <jgarzik> luke-jr: the included python script, blkmon, monitors the P2P network for new blocks, and sends pushpool SIGUSR1.  used for long polling.
124 2011-04-24 01:40:26 <programe> jgarzik: the tarball contains the lastest source code_ is it the same that the repository
125 2011-04-24 01:40:54 <programe> right
126 2011-04-24 01:41:14 <jgarzik> programe: repository is generally more recent than any released tarball
127 2011-04-24 01:41:38 <sgornick> MagicalTux: Wiki performance is the suck.  Anything that can be done?
128 2011-04-24 01:41:44 <programe> jarzik: weird, and why you do not put on the repo the autoconf macros_
129 2011-04-24 01:42:05 <programe> jgarzik: im not able to compile from repo because im missing libcurl macro and i dont know where to place it
130 2011-04-24 01:43:20 <da2ce7> generation:   SHA256(SHA256(BlockHedder)) ?
131 2011-04-24 01:43:26 <da2ce7> or is there annother step?
132 2011-04-24 01:43:41 <da2ce7> (updating the wiki)
133 2011-04-24 01:43:50 <programe> jgarzik now make throws me errors related to mysql, i think that im missing mysql libs right
134 2011-04-24 01:44:03 <sacarlson> theymos:   so with this change  nSubsidy >>= (nHeight / (GetMaxMoney()/100));  it seems to be running ok with my last chain, so now the minner will continue to find new coins they will just have a smaller value?
135 2011-04-24 01:44:43 <sacarlson> oh and GetMaxMoney is now set to 10000
136 2011-04-24 01:45:21 <programe> jgarzik: do you have idea why its giving me errors when i compile, mysq errors like...MYSQL undeclared first use in this function
137 2011-04-24 01:46:03 <programe> jgarzik> seems like im missing mysql-devel ill install it
138 2011-04-24 01:46:45 <theymos> sacarlson: Yes. You'll get ~10,000 total BTC in 3300 blocks.
139 2011-04-24 01:47:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ah
140 2011-04-24 01:49:23 <sacarlson> theymos: but what about the coins that were minted before this change in the value of GetMaxMoney() will they still be worth what they were when they were minted?
141 2011-04-24 01:49:36 <programe> jgarzik: now im getting SQLLITE_OPEN_READWRITE undeclared
142 2011-04-24 01:49:58 <theymos> sacarlson: Some might be invalid now.
143 2011-04-24 01:50:22 <lfm_> programe: missing aql headers or wrong version
144 2011-04-24 01:50:35 <lfm_> sql
145 2011-04-24 01:50:37 <programe> jgarzik_ whcih sqllite version i need
146 2011-04-24 01:51:47 <programe> jgarzik i have sqllite version 3.3.6 sqlite-devel
147 2011-04-24 01:51:54 <programe> jgarzik but it isnt working
148 2011-04-24 01:52:00 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
149 2011-04-24 01:52:01 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.95,"low":1.3202,"vol":69658,"buy":1.7106,"sell":1.7474,"last":1.7474}}
150 2011-04-24 01:52:09 <programe> jgarzik which sqlite dev version i need_
151 2011-04-24 01:52:21 <sacarlson> ok now since I have been running I see I still have a balance of "balance" : 5100.00000000, after I have now minted 3 new coins so they seem to still have value
152 2011-04-24 01:53:13 <jgarzik> programe: sorry dude I don't have time to hold your hand through each pushpool dependency.  this is simple open source dependency stuff.  if you have 14 years of programming experience, you need to be able to answer these questions yourself.
153 2011-04-24 01:53:13 <programe> jgarzik the configure script says that as long as it be greater than 3.0.0 it should work however its now working with 3.3.6
154 2011-04-24 01:53:40 <jgarzik> that's why the source code is published -- all the answers are already in your hands
155 2011-04-24 01:53:43 <programe> jgarzik, ok ill just downgrade sqlite no problem
156 2011-04-24 01:54:00 <netxshare> blah
157 2011-04-24 01:54:03 <programe> jgarzik just tought it would be quick for you to tell me which sqlite version you compile with
158 2011-04-24 01:54:08 <netxshare> Table is to large
159 2011-04-24 01:54:10 <programe> so i can download the same
160 2011-04-24 01:54:16 <netxshare> need to find a better way to display data in html
161 2011-04-24 01:54:41 <programe> jgarzik np thxs
162 2011-04-24 01:55:02 <netxshare> I could have it scroll
163 2011-04-24 02:09:30 <programe> why amd card outperforms nvidia cards_
164 2011-04-24 02:09:38 <programe> because the code isnt property optimized
165 2011-04-24 02:09:45 <programe> or because the hardware doesnt fit the goal
166 2011-04-24 02:13:49 <tcoppi> latter
167 2011-04-24 02:14:07 <tcoppi> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU#Why_are_AMD_GPUs_faster_than_Nvidia_GPUs?
168 2011-04-24 02:15:21 <programe> jgarzik: undefined reference htole16 weird
169 2011-04-24 02:15:57 <johnlockwood> has anyone here done an ACH transfer to mtgox? just want to confirm the name on the account
170 2011-04-24 02:17:17 <amiller> i'm interested in hearing how you set up an ACH transfer to mtgox
171 2011-04-24 02:17:24 <dotblank> lol
172 2011-04-24 02:17:33 <dotblank> Best commit message "WTFindows doesn't support folders named 'aux'."
173 2011-04-24 02:18:19 <doublec> or COM, etc
174 2011-04-24 02:18:33 <doublec> legacy issues with old DOS device names
175 2011-04-24 02:18:50 <johnlockwood> amiller:  1. get account, 2. ask bank to make transfer
176 2011-04-24 02:19:13 <theymos> I wonder how many programs rely on having DOS devices in the current directory.
177 2011-04-24 02:19:57 <programe> does anyone know wich library i need to install that includes the function htole32 _
178 2011-04-24 02:21:15 <amiller> johnlockwood, don't i need a routing number associated with mtgox or something
179 2011-04-24 02:21:19 <amiller> instructions on mtgox say to email for information
180 2011-04-24 02:21:35 <amiller> (which i haven't bothered to do, maybe i'll get the info here)
181 2011-04-24 02:22:06 <programe> i need to install this functions http://www.digipedia.pl/man/doc/view/htole32.9/ does anyone know which library i need to install on centos
182 2011-04-24 02:22:24 <johnlockwood> amiller:  yes, you email for the information, Mark Karpeles <admin@mtgox.com> emailed me back in about an hour
183 2011-04-24 02:22:58 <amiller> is there a natural reason why it's not public information
184 2011-04-24 02:23:11 <amiller> is it just something that could be built into the webapp but hasn't been yet
185 2011-04-24 02:27:42 <programe> nevermind i figured it out, its glibc 2.9
186 2011-04-24 02:27:48 <programe> hehe
187 2011-04-24 02:30:44 <johnlockwood> I don't know about that amiller, maybe a privacy thing
188 2011-04-24 02:34:31 <lfm_> programe: maybe the kernel headers or kernel sources
189 2011-04-24 02:34:53 <programe> lfm: i need to upgrade glibc from 2.5 to 2.9
190 2011-04-24 02:35:00 <lfm_> oh ok
191 2011-04-24 02:35:07 <programe> lfm: ill have to do it manually, i just hope i dont break anything
192 2011-04-24 02:35:22 <programe> lfm: since there are lots of deps on glibc on my system
193 2011-04-24 02:35:34 <lfm_> theres not a newer centos with it eh?>
194 2011-04-24 02:42:14 <programe> lfm: ill have to check because it will be very hard to upgrade glibc
195 2011-04-24 02:44:03 <B0g4r7> To say the least.
196 2011-04-24 02:44:25 <programe> lfm: i already have the latest centos version
197 2011-04-24 02:46:09 <programe> lfm: ill have to download opensufe 11
198 2011-04-24 03:27:06 <mizerydearia> /join #carrots please
199 2011-04-24 03:28:07 <mizerydearia> oops, #carrot
200 2011-04-24 03:32:24 <mizerydearia> If you don't want to come to the channel then visit http://weusecarrots.com/
201 2011-04-24 03:34:57 <mizerydearia> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6417.new#new
202 2011-04-24 03:39:00 <jrabbit> lol
203 2011-04-24 03:39:17 <jrabbit> thats an elaborate joke bavo
204 2011-04-24 03:39:24 <jrabbit> *br
205 2011-04-24 03:40:55 <sacarlson> ok now I at least have setup max_money with only 116 present blocks to a very slow inflation rate with block creation 04/24/11 05:35 generated 0.02441406  you make about 0.02 pbtc per block created so that sounds small enuf for me
206 2011-04-24 03:41:36 <sacarlson> previosly created blocks still have there original value
207 2011-04-24 03:43:14 <sacarlson> now to find out how the fee's thing work
208 2011-04-24 03:50:56 <sacarlson> also I guess it would require at least one minner to run on the micro net all the time to keep it secure, or I guess to add more security to a micro net I could also make the value of COINBASE_MATURITY  very high so that the network could go dead for a week without the newly created coins being credited yet
209 2011-04-24 03:52:47 <sacarlson> oh no that won't work since that would also make transactions that slow
210 2011-04-24 03:56:31 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 1200
211 2011-04-24 03:56:32 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1200 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.0130701195804 BTC per day and 0.000544588315849 BTC per hour.
212 2011-04-24 03:56:41 <skittixch> hey, do you guys know where to find plaintext versions of individual buy/ask prices for mtgox?
213 2011-04-24 03:56:57 <skittixch> not the whole ticker, but just each individual one per url
214 2011-04-24 04:02:02 <warpi> hello, does it excist any forks to bitcoin yet?
215 2011-04-24 04:02:31 <nanotube> http://mtgox.com/code/data/getDepth.php skittixch
216 2011-04-24 04:03:57 <RenaKunisaki> ;;bc,gen 100000
217 2011-04-24 04:03:58 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.0891766317 BTC per day and 0.0453823596541 BTC per hour.
218 2011-04-24 04:04:34 <lfm_> skittixch: look under trade data - depth of market
219 2011-04-24 04:05:04 <lfm_> then scroll down
220 2011-04-24 04:05:52 <Androgynous> hmm
221 2011-04-24 04:06:03 <Androgynous> nvm
222 2011-04-24 04:06:34 <lfm_> RenaKunisaki: you mean like at the current difficulty?
223 2011-04-24 04:09:17 <skittixch> lfm: I'm  looking down, not seeing it
224 2011-04-24 04:09:39 <lfm_> did you find trade data?
225 2011-04-24 04:09:45 <skittixch> yup
226 2011-04-24 04:09:49 <lfm_> click
227 2011-04-24 04:10:09 <lfm_> then click on depth of market
228 2011-04-24 04:10:15 <RenaKunisaki> yeah
229 2011-04-24 04:10:21 <lfm_> now scroll down
230 2011-04-24 04:10:26 <RenaKunisaki> I guess you'd just divide one by the other actually
231 2011-04-24 04:11:09 <RenaKunisaki> ;;bc,gen 91812.472917197
232 2011-04-24 04:11:10 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 91812.472917197 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.999999999995 BTC per day and 0.0416666666665 BTC per hour.
233 2011-04-24 04:11:16 <RenaKunisaki> *close enough*
234 2011-04-24 04:11:42 <skittixch> At the very bottom of the page, I see "Trade API | Merchant Services | Contact |  Just above that, I see "Showing 1 to 138 of 138 entries"
235 2011-04-24 04:11:46 <skittixch> am I not looking in the right place?
236 2011-04-24 04:13:15 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 12000
237 2011-04-24 04:13:16 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 12000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.130701195804 BTC per day and 0.00544588315849 BTC per hour.
238 2011-04-24 04:13:54 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 20000
239 2011-04-24 04:13:55 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 20000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.217835326339 BTC per day and 0.00907647193081 BTC per hour.
240 2011-04-24 04:14:15 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 23000
241 2011-04-24 04:14:16 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 23000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.25051062529 BTC per day and 0.0104379427204 BTC per hour.
242 2011-04-24 04:14:33 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 30000
243 2011-04-24 04:14:34 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 30000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.326752989509 BTC per day and 0.0136147078962 BTC per hour.
244 2011-04-24 04:14:36 <RenaKunisaki> the bot responds to PMs too btw
245 2011-04-24 04:16:10 <Androgynous> back
246 2011-04-24 04:20:07 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen 91812.5
247 2011-04-24 04:20:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 91812.5 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.00000029498 BTC per day and 0.0416666789574 BTC per hour.
248 2011-04-24 04:21:12 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen  9.181247292E+04
249 2011-04-24 04:21:13 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
250 2011-04-24 04:21:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 91812.47292 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1 BTC per day and 0.0416666666678 BTC per hour.
251 2011-04-24 04:21:29 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen  91812.47292
252 2011-04-24 04:21:35 <RenaKunisaki> what does the difficulty value represent?
253 2011-04-24 04:22:19 <Unirgy> hi
254 2011-04-24 04:22:21 <lfm_> RenaKunisaki: it is automaticlly adjusted by the net to make the blocks arrive at 6 blocks /hour
255 2011-04-24 04:22:21 <Unirgy> is there a reason for transaction history not to be on the cloud with simple API access?
256 2011-04-24 04:22:45 <jgarzik> Unirgy: bitcoin is a cloud
257 2011-04-24 04:22:51 <lfm_> Unirgy: then it wouldnt really be distributed
258 2011-04-24 04:24:11 <RenaKunisaki> mm, I understand that, but when the difficulty value is higher, how does that make blocks more difficult to generate?
259 2011-04-24 04:24:46 <MBS> im guessing it lowers the minimum value of the hash required to win
260 2011-04-24 04:25:19 <Unirgy> if i want to have a network storage for the db, can it be shared between multiple clients (recipients)?
261 2011-04-24 04:25:28 <RenaKunisaki> that's what I was thinking, just that it goes up instead of down as difficulty increases made me wonder
262 2011-04-24 04:25:48 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen  3825.519705
263 2011-04-24 04:25:49 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3825.519705 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.0416666666678 BTC per day and 0.00173611111116 BTC per hour.
264 2011-04-24 04:27:02 <Unirgy> are all the clients on the network working on the same block at the same time?
265 2011-04-24 04:27:50 <Unirgy> ok that didn't make sense
266 2011-04-24 04:27:55 <Unirgy> i need to order my thoughts
267 2011-04-24 04:28:29 <lfm_> Unirgy: well they all want to get the next block but the blocks they are working on are each unique to themselves
268 2011-04-24 04:57:37 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen  7932718704
269 2011-04-24 04:57:38 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 7932718704 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 86401.3183823 BTC per day and 3600.05493259 BTC per hour.
270 2011-04-24 04:57:47 <Androgynous> bs <<
271 2011-04-24 04:58:16 <lfm_> hehe ya
272 2011-04-24 04:58:38 <Androgynous> hmmm 3600 per hour?
273 2011-04-24 04:58:44 <Androgynous> going for that in the calc?
274 2011-04-24 04:58:46 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 22035.32973 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.240003662137 BTC per day and 0.010000152589 BTC per hour.
275 2011-04-24 04:58:46 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen 22035.32973
276 2011-04-24 04:59:08 <lfm_> ;;bc,gen 2203532.973
277 2011-04-24 04:59:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2203532.973 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 24.0003662137 BTC per day and 1.0000152589 BTC per hour.
278 2011-04-24 05:00:40 <lfm_> Androgynous: just my slow witted way of answering a question
279 2011-04-24 05:00:48 <Androgynous> ah, k
280 2011-04-24 05:04:24 <sacarlson> I havn't tested it yet but since I can make the value of coins smaller I wonder if I setup another minner with a larger bitcoin value if it will still be accepted when it discovers one?
281 2011-04-24 05:05:39 <sacarlson> I plan to test this with my other client running in minner mode with a larger than 50 value coin on finding a new block
282 2011-04-24 05:06:38 <sacarlson> if this is true this might be a scary thing
283 2011-04-24 05:06:49 <nanotube> sacarlson: no, if you try to make a block with more that 50 coins in the coinbase, it'll be rejected.
284 2011-04-24 05:06:57 <nanotube> of course, on your own fork, you can make it do whatever you want. :)
285 2011-04-24 05:07:03 <nanotube> but on mainnet, it'll be invalid.
286 2011-04-24 05:07:21 <lfm_> unless its just including fees
287 2011-04-24 05:08:07 <sacarlson> nanotube: I'm not sure I've made very few changes to the code as I will publish my latest in a bit
288 2011-04-24 05:08:52 <nanotube> lfm_: well yes, fees. i meant for the 'base' :)
289 2011-04-24 05:09:30 <lfm_> ya, im surprized it lets people gen less then 50
290 2011-04-24 05:10:15 <sacarlson> lfm_: well I guess it was setup to be smaller in the future but in the future when it gets smaller it may allow people to continue to make biger ones
291 2011-04-24 05:10:36 <Androgynous> couldn't someone purposefully generate blocks with low amounts of BTC just to be a dick?
292 2011-04-24 05:10:38 <lfm_> sacarlson: I dont think so
293 2011-04-24 05:10:39 <sacarlson> lfm_: I'm not sure until I test it
294 2011-04-24 05:10:46 <Androgynous> by upping difficulty?
295 2011-04-24 05:10:55 <lfm_> Androgynous: they only hurt themselves
296 2011-04-24 05:11:24 <nanotube> Androgynous: yes you can have a coinbase with <50btc... will just increase the value of outstanding coins. :)
297 2011-04-24 05:11:32 <lfm_> Androgynous: just like deleteing your wallet with coins in it, you only hurt yourself
298 2011-04-24 05:12:08 <sacarlson> lfm_: well it's would be a flaw that would have to be fixed on my side since I already make very small payments on finding blocks
299 2011-04-24 05:12:28 <Androgynous> ah, so it wouldn't hurt anyone else?
300 2011-04-24 05:12:29 <Androgynous> k
301 2011-04-24 05:12:32 <lfm_> sacarlson: so you only hurt yourself, what is the flaw?
302 2011-04-24 05:12:44 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.msg93721#msg93721
303 2011-04-24 05:12:54 <Diablo-D3> lol
304 2011-04-24 05:13:00 <sacarlson> Androgynous: I don't know I havn't even tested it on my side to see if I can create biger than 50 collected on a block
305 2011-04-24 05:13:26 <lfm_> sacarlson: should be easy to try on testnet
306 2011-04-24 05:13:42 <sacarlson> lfm_: I will run it on my private testnet
307 2011-04-24 05:13:53 <sacarlson> faster results
308 2011-04-24 05:14:00 <Androgynous> i'll have the party on MY Private Beach
309 2011-04-24 05:14:02 <Androgynous> u jelly?
310 2011-04-24 05:14:48 <sacarlson> how many btc will you give me to give you the results?
311 2011-04-24 05:15:06 <Diablo-D3> btw
312 2011-04-24 05:15:08 <Diablo-D3> in 50 years
313 2011-04-24 05:15:21 <Diablo-D3> btc will be worth about $50k at today's USD valuation
314 2011-04-24 05:15:29 <Diablo-D3> too bad the world is ending in 2012
315 2011-04-24 05:15:48 <Androgynous> or Winter, 2011
316 2011-04-24 05:16:08 <Androgynous> there's the Rapture supposed to be happening May 21st
317 2011-04-24 05:16:15 <Androgynous> X3
318 2011-04-24 05:16:23 <lfm_> that is a bit of a problem, the world ending
319 2011-04-24 05:16:26 <Diablo-D3> that'd be spring 2011
320 2011-04-24 05:16:30 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: cool I'll be able to retire on the 10 btc I invested
321 2011-04-24 05:16:36 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: lawlz
322 2011-04-24 05:17:32 <lfm_> might as well give me all your bitcoin for all the good it will do ya
323 2011-04-24 05:17:49 <Androgynous> you'd invest it to save the world
324 2011-04-24 05:17:52 <Androgynous> and have all the BTC
325 2011-04-24 05:17:53 <sacarlson> lfm_: ye of no faith
326 2011-04-24 05:19:30 <sacarlson> I assume someone has already scanned all the outstanding coins to verify there are none presently minted that are of grater than 50 btc value?
327 2011-04-24 05:19:55 <lfm_> what? Like the was it The daily Show or Colbert said, those Aztecs never missed on those big world ending predictions, oh except once, they missed predicting Cortez wiping them out
328 2011-04-24 05:21:04 <lfm_> in fact their priests thought Cortez was one of their own gods or something
329 2011-04-24 05:21:55 <lfm_> sacarlson: ya, like every node in the net scanned em when they first downloaded the block chain
330 2011-04-24 05:23:06 <lfm_> sacarlson: Max fee: 4.32000000 2010-08-09 20:08:34
331 2011-04-24 05:23:35 <lfm_> sacarlson: so the largets payout in a coinbase would be 54.32 btc
332 2011-04-24 05:24:21 <sacarlson> lfm_:  cool thanks I needed that
333 2011-04-24 05:24:31 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: how are you projecting 50 years of ? growth? :-)
334 2011-04-24 05:25:26 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: holding a ruler up to my monitor as a straight edge
335 2011-04-24 05:25:28 <lfm_> curve fit? over some period? since mtgox started?
336 2011-04-24 05:25:48 <Androgynous> ooh cool symbol
337 2011-04-24 05:25:48 <lfm_> ok a rough curve fit
338 2011-04-24 05:25:49 <Androgynous> :3
339 2011-04-24 05:26:05 <midnightmagic> it's a thai baht
340 2011-04-24 05:26:11 <Androgynous> ah =3
341 2011-04-24 05:26:25 <midnightmagic> U0E3F
342 2011-04-24 05:26:59 <lfm_> midnightmagic: now he has pen lines all over his screen
343 2011-04-24 05:27:07 <midnightmagic> :-D
344 2011-04-24 05:28:19 <midnightmagic> have the angry bitter people complaining about the meteoric rise of ? pricing?
345 2011-04-24 05:28:19 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: ya that's my currency you stole it
346 2011-04-24 05:28:24 <midnightmagic> ..   gone away?
347 2011-04-24 05:28:50 <midnightmagic> sacarlson: you're Thai?
348 2011-04-24 05:28:52 <lfm_> I havnt seen em recently
349 2011-04-24 05:28:58 <sacarlson> well the bhat has shot up a bit over the last 8 years,
350 2011-04-24 05:29:13 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: well I live in thailand yes but I'm from hawaii
351 2011-04-24 05:29:44 <lfm_> so you get paid in bhat?
352 2011-04-24 05:29:50 <midnightmagic> it's baht i think..?
353 2011-04-24 05:30:02 <sacarlson> lfm_:  us bums get paid in beer
354 2011-04-24 05:30:10 <lfm_> oh cool
355 2011-04-24 05:30:25 <midnightmagic> ''bc,stats
356 2011-04-24 05:30:29 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
357 2011-04-24 05:30:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119890 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1069 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 18 hours, 25 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 101462.36144578
358 2011-04-24 05:30:38 <midnightmagic> geez..  101k..
359 2011-04-24 05:31:02 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: ya I think your correct it's baht
360 2011-04-24 05:32:49 <lfm_> and beehr?
361 2011-04-24 05:37:05 <da2ce7> we only need the diff 100x higher and we start to become harder to attack
362 2011-04-24 05:37:17 <midnightmagic> "start to" :-)
363 2011-04-24 05:37:44 <da2ce7> well I'm assuming that the goverment will get dedicated sha256 chips made up
364 2011-04-24 05:37:47 <lfm_> well we onoly need the dif 1.01 x higher and we are harder to attack
365 2011-04-24 05:38:17 <midnightmagic> or 1 hash/sec higher for that matter
366 2011-04-24 05:38:22 <da2ce7> lol
367 2011-04-24 05:38:34 <da2ce7> begin to become hard to attack
368 2011-04-24 05:38:45 <lfm_> da2ce7: why bother, they could just buy 2000 5970s and theyd have a moajority of the hashing power
369 2011-04-24 05:39:15 <da2ce7> lfm, becasue in 6 months they will requite more 5970's than in exzistance
370 2011-04-24 05:39:31 <da2ce7> they are not going to do an attack any time very soon.
371 2011-04-24 05:39:39 <da2ce7> (at least I don't expect they will)
372 2011-04-24 05:39:43 <lfm_> assiming the diificulty continues the same way up
373 2011-04-24 05:39:51 <lfm_> assuming
374 2011-04-24 05:39:56 <da2ce7> ya
375 2011-04-24 05:40:17 <midnightmagic> 726GHash/s? seriously..?
376 2011-04-24 05:40:28 <da2ce7> the future of bitcoin really comes down to 'who controlls the fabs'
377 2011-04-24 05:40:38 <midnightmagic> any can fab..
378 2011-04-24 05:40:44 <lfm_> midnightmagic: thats pretty close I think
379 2011-04-24 05:41:10 <gribble> (101,462.36144578 * (2^32)) / 600 = 7.26295874 * 10^(11)
380 2011-04-24 05:41:10 <midnightmagic> ;;calc (101462.36144578*(2^32))/600
381 2011-04-24 05:41:35 <midnightmagic> just doesn't seem like much.
382 2011-04-24 05:41:36 <da2ce7> the first thing that the goverment will do is put a ban on 'sha256 password cracking' chips
383 2011-04-24 05:41:41 <lfm_> 5790 is like 600mhash/s isnt it?
384 2011-04-24 05:41:53 <da2ce7> so we won't be able to easly make our own
385 2011-04-24 05:41:56 <Androgynous> there i opened the port
386 2011-04-24 05:41:56 <midnightmagic> only if you overclock it or run art's special super-awesome-action-cores
387 2011-04-24 05:42:08 <Androgynous> shouldn't i be getting a bunch of connections now?
388 2011-04-24 05:42:09 <midnightmagic> more like 585-590
389 2011-04-24 05:42:41 <da2ce7> but we have flexablity, if they ban xyz we can just move to a fuction that only works well on CPU's
390 2011-04-24 05:42:44 <lfm_> ok 726000/590
391 2011-04-24 05:42:45 <da2ce7> or something like that.
392 2011-04-24 05:42:53 <gribble> 726???000 / 590 = 1???230.50847
393 2011-04-24 05:42:53 <lfm_> ;;calc 726000/590
394 2011-04-24 05:43:12 <gribble> 726???295???873???640.92729535146666666666 / 580???000???000 = 1???252.23426
395 2011-04-24 05:43:12 <midnightmagic> ;;calc 726295873640.92729535146666666666/580000000
396 2011-04-24 05:43:21 <midnightmagic> 1200 5970..  peanuts. tiny.
397 2011-04-24 05:43:38 <lfm_> what with the funny symbols in that calc?
398 2011-04-24 05:43:52 <midnightmagic> hrm?
399 2011-04-24 05:44:13 <lfm_> doh, gribble is putting "hard spaces" in its numbers
400 2011-04-24 05:44:33 <midnightmagic> doesn't he just pull it from google?
401 2011-04-24 05:44:43 <lfm_> and my irc client is old dumb tty curses client
402 2011-04-24 05:44:52 <midnightmagic> hah! which one?  ircII?
403 2011-04-24 05:44:59 <gribble> Error: "math,calc" is not a valid command.
404 2011-04-24 05:44:59 <lfm_> ;;math,calc 726000/590
405 2011-04-24 05:45:07 <gribble> Error: "google,calc" is not a valid command.
406 2011-04-24 05:45:07 <lfm_> ;;google,calc 726000/590
407 2011-04-24 05:45:15 <gribble> 726???000 / 590 = 1???230.50847
408 2011-04-24 05:45:15 <midnightmagic> ;;calc 726000/590
409 2011-04-24 05:46:11 <lfm_> ok so if 1231 5970s are eunf, then 2000 of em is a good saftey margin
410 2011-04-24 05:46:33 <midnightmagic> well don't forget that adding more power changes your ratio.
411 2011-04-24 05:46:49 <midnightmagic> but of course you already know that.
412 2011-04-24 05:46:57 <lfm_> ya thats fine you still just need 51% of the hashes
413 2011-04-24 05:48:01 <lfm_> the problem is if more stuff like ny times articles on bitcoin get published and we get a real gold rush started
414 2011-04-24 05:48:03 <da2ce7> 2000 5970's isn't very hard to get.
415 2011-04-24 05:48:23 <da2ce7> we need asic's asap
416 2011-04-24 05:48:44 <lfm_> talk ArtForz into releasing his
417 2011-04-24 05:49:29 <lfm_> seems a bit steep
418 2011-04-24 05:49:58 <midnightmagic> artforz, I think, is the sort of person who must always have an edge; a force multiplier only he has access to. (assuming he doesn't share his stuff with the chip designer(s) who give him a hand)
419 2011-04-24 05:50:07 <da2ce7> ;;bc,gen 10000000
420 2011-04-24 05:50:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 108.91766317 BTC per day and 4.53823596541 BTC per hour.
421 2011-04-24 05:50:40 <midnightmagic> 50 days. more like 60-70 or more.
422 2011-04-24 05:51:02 <da2ce7> so that is a good return on investment
423 2011-04-24 05:51:04 <lfm_> thats not right by an order of magnitude
424 2011-04-24 05:51:13 <midnightmagic> @20W? yeah.
425 2011-04-24 05:51:23 <lfm_> oops sorry, no its ok
426 2011-04-24 05:51:26 <midnightmagic> 6 of those is a 120W light bulb.
427 2011-04-24 05:51:33 <da2ce7> yep
428 2011-04-24 05:51:46 <midnightmagic> i'd say it's good. need a beta-tester?
429 2011-04-24 05:51:47 <midnightmagic> :-)
430 2011-04-24 05:51:50 <lfm_> ya the power is almost negligable
431 2011-04-24 05:52:05 <midnightmagic> the cooling for it would cost more
432 2011-04-24 05:52:24 <midnightmagic> like..  in power consumption.
433 2011-04-24 05:52:34 <lfm_> 20 should work with passive cooling
434 2011-04-24 05:52:46 <lfm_> 20w
435 2011-04-24 05:53:26 <midnightmagic> let's see..  art says he pays ~ $300 for about 300MHash.. 10/0.3 = ~34 card of his.. = $10,200 for art's chips to match the same throughput.
436 2011-04-24 05:53:35 <midnightmagic> card => chips
437 2011-04-24 05:53:59 <lfm_> ya so its not a bad deal by that calc
438 2011-04-24 05:54:11 <midnightmagic> 10GHash with passive cooling? maybe if your room has infinite capacity to absorb. :)
439 2011-04-24 05:54:32 <lfm_> naw 20w is not hard to cool
440 2011-04-24 05:54:41 <da2ce7> you would want to have a small fan, not good for the chips to get hot
441 2011-04-24 05:54:58 <midnightmagic> you serious about that board?
442 2011-04-24 05:55:11 <da2ce7> well I'm teaming up with some VC :)
443 2011-04-24 05:55:24 <da2ce7> it is all tentitive
444 2011-04-24 05:55:29 <lfm_> I run 5770 with passive heat sink sucking 105w
445 2011-04-24 05:56:01 <midnightmagic> hrm..
446 2011-04-24 05:56:44 <midnightmagic> tough to convince them you'll make money i bet.
447 2011-04-24 05:56:51 <da2ce7> oh yeah.
448 2011-04-24 05:56:52 <lfm_> liek a 20w light bulb you could hold in your hand as long as you felt like (normal size bulb)
449 2011-04-24 05:57:02 <midnightmagic> done any market analysis?
450 2011-04-24 05:57:29 <da2ce7> yep, but just floating some ideas.  Seems like my calculations were on spot.
451 2011-04-24 05:57:45 <midnightmagic> seems to me there aren't more than a few hundred actual heavy miners, if that..
452 2011-04-24 05:58:12 <lfm_> main trick would be that market size, like if you can only ever sell 10, itd be hard
453 2011-04-24 05:58:14 <midnightmagic> and, with a flood of power, the entire difficulty goes through the roof.
454 2011-04-24 05:58:24 <programme> i compiled pushpool! :)
455 2011-04-24 05:58:39 <da2ce7> the goal is to controll 30% of the mining ourselves, and sell cards to the rest
456 2011-04-24 05:58:46 <lfm_> programme: wtg, (what is it>)
457 2011-04-24 05:59:25 <midnightmagic> then you're depending on being the limiting supply of hashrate.
458 2011-04-24 05:59:56 <programme> lfm_: its pooling software
459 2011-04-24 06:00:11 <da2ce7> well if another company enters the market, then we will have a fun time ey'
460 2011-04-24 06:02:07 <lfm_> da2ce7: 30% is what 25 of your devices?
461 2011-04-24 06:02:52 <dust-> 10Gh/s  @ 20w ?!?
462 2011-04-24 06:02:54 <gribble> ((726 * 3) / 2) - 726 = 363
463 2011-04-24 06:02:54 <midnightmagic> ;;calc 726*3/2-726
464 2011-04-24 06:03:16 <midnightmagic> 36 cards.
465 2011-04-24 06:03:44 <da2ce7> you need to take into count that the total pool will grow also
466 2011-04-24 06:03:46 <midnightmagic> that would only exist with a straight asic, i think..
467 2011-04-24 06:04:10 <gribble> 363 / (726 + 363) = 0.333333333
468 2011-04-24 06:04:10 <midnightmagic> ;;calc 363/(726+363)
469 2011-04-24 06:04:34 <autotron> dust-: you are generating that much at 20w ?
470 2011-04-24 06:04:54 <da2ce7> autotron, no they are not made yet.
471 2011-04-24 06:04:56 <midnightmagic> no, da2ce7 says he's going to sell a card that does 10GHash @ 20W.
472 2011-04-24 06:05:14 <autotron> and then hook them up to Solar panels ?
473 2011-04-24 06:05:22 <dust-> and I find that hard to believe
474 2011-04-24 06:05:28 <da2ce7> *planing to, vc is hard to get moving.
475 2011-04-24 06:05:28 <lfm_> for $5000
476 2011-04-24 06:05:31 <midnightmagic> @20W, that would definitely be a possibility.
477 2011-04-24 06:05:35 <da2ce7> no 5000 BTC
478 2011-04-24 06:05:36 <midnightmagic> he said 5000?
479 2011-04-24 06:05:45 <lfm_> oh ok
480 2011-04-24 06:05:49 <midnightmagic> it would be a tremendous consolidation of ? ownership
481 2011-04-24 06:05:57 <da2ce7> :)
482 2011-04-24 06:06:34 <autotron> hmm what does california pay to sell power back to the gird?
483 2011-04-24 06:06:54 <midnightmagic> circulation generates value; I predict overall value would plummet at least in the short-term.
484 2011-04-24 06:09:21 <midnightmagic> da2ce7: so why would the VC go with you instead of just doing it themselves?
485 2011-04-24 06:09:41 <da2ce7> the might. :P
486 2011-04-24 06:09:49 <da2ce7> *they might
487 2011-04-24 06:10:27 <midnightmagic> that was the part where you should've said, "NDA means i own their asses"
488 2011-04-24 06:10:49 <da2ce7> lol no VC touches anything with a NDA
489 2011-04-24 06:11:03 <da2ce7> they try and make me sign one
490 2011-04-24 06:11:14 <midnightmagic> things have changed then. the people with the ideas must be getting desperate.
491 2011-04-24 06:11:37 <da2ce7> na, the guy with the VC is a friends.
492 2011-04-24 06:11:40 <midnightmagic> else, as a VC you just sit back and farm ideas.. like what's stoppnig them?
493 2011-04-24 06:11:41 <da2ce7> *friend.
494 2011-04-24 06:12:03 <midnightmagic> friends have a way of being unfriendly when millions of dollars are at stake.
495 2011-04-24 06:12:06 <da2ce7> becasue both have to bring something to the table
496 2011-04-24 06:12:31 <midnightmagic> are you a chip designer then?
497 2011-04-24 06:13:04 <midnightmagic> man, a pile of my employer's customers are chip designers.. i should go bug them..
498 2011-04-24 06:14:04 <lfm> ya steal da2ce7's idea yourself! :-P
499 2011-04-24 06:14:29 <midnightmagic> lol, admit it. you had the same idea at least as of january.
500 2011-04-24 06:14:31 <midnightmagic> i know i did.
501 2011-04-24 06:14:49 <da2ce7> midnightmagic, I really don't care, If it works my bitcoins are going to be worth more anyway
502 2011-04-24 06:14:58 <midnightmagic> that's the spirit!
503 2011-04-24 06:15:29 <lfm> cept I dont know any chip designers nor vcs
504 2011-04-24 06:15:31 <da2ce7> just with the VC stealing my idea.  I have other projects that I really care about.  This is just one of the side projects.
505 2011-04-24 06:16:21 <autotron> is there a list of interesting ideas around bitcoins that people would be interested in if developed?
506 2011-04-24 06:16:31 <midnightmagic> define "interested in"
507 2011-04-24 06:16:33 <lfm> didnt google start as a side project?
508 2011-04-24 06:16:34 <autotron> like a bitcoin community wishlist
509 2011-04-24 06:17:03 <da2ce7> I really think that we should start a community project and create shares and get a propper open source chip design.
510 2011-04-24 06:17:40 <autotron> a special chip for generating the hashes?
511 2011-04-24 06:18:01 <da2ce7> yeah, is is a slight mod to 2x SHA256
512 2011-04-24 06:18:23 <midnightmagic> da2ce7: i hope you don't think i was attacking your idea. the idea is good; i'm just asking the questions that popped into my head.
513 2011-04-24 06:18:46 <autotron> could FPGAs be used effectivly ?
514 2011-04-24 06:18:57 <midnightmagic> no, they cost too much. you're paying for interconnects.
515 2011-04-24 06:19:04 <da2ce7> need to manage a nounce, etc.  don't need to do every round. (only do rounds that affect the part of the hash we care about).
516 2011-04-24 06:19:44 <da2ce7> midnightmagic, no prob. Didn't even think anything of it.
517 2011-04-24 06:19:48 <midnightmagic> k
518 2011-04-24 06:20:49 <autotron> it all comes down to perf per watt ?
519 2011-04-24 06:21:14 <lfm> autotron: initial investment needed counts too
520 2011-04-24 06:21:26 <midnightmagic> honestly i think a community effort should be the driving force too, as far out as possible. make it simple for people to participate cheaply and effectively. that sort of thing
521 2011-04-24 06:21:56 <autotron> what does performance look like on low power ARM ?
522 2011-04-24 06:21:57 <midnightmagic> yeah, if you pay too much up front, the next-gen technology eats your breakfast.
523 2011-04-24 06:22:02 <da2ce7> as I said before, whomever controlls the fav's controlls bitcoin
524 2011-04-24 06:22:03 <autotron> good point
525 2011-04-24 06:22:14 <da2ce7> we need to start investing in fabs.
526 2011-04-24 06:22:21 <lfm> maybe get some speople from the open hardware project(s) interested
527 2011-04-24 06:22:40 <da2ce7> all over the wrold.
528 2011-04-24 06:22:45 <lfm> da2ce7: hehe I think thats still a ways down the road
529 2011-04-24 06:22:53 <autotron> I not a guy would builds power plants =) maybe he would let us hook up for 2c a KWh =)
530 2011-04-24 06:22:54 <midnightmagic> find a way to make it infeasible to concentrate hashrate in the hands of corps
531 2011-04-24 06:22:59 <autotron> I know a guy I mean
532 2011-04-24 06:23:24 <lfm> autotron: ya see if he can get us cheap power in off hors and stuff like that
533 2011-04-24 06:24:07 <lfm> some power systems will sell power very cheap in off hours
534 2011-04-24 06:25:14 <da2ce7> lfm, don't underestmate the free market.  Once Drug money hit bitcoin, we are going to be looking at $1000/BTC
535 2011-04-24 06:25:35 <midnightmagic> that would be nice.
536 2011-04-24 06:25:43 <lfm> da2ce7: oh? you think it hasn't already?
537 2011-04-24 06:26:12 <da2ce7> lfm, is a bitcoin worth $1000 ?
538 2011-04-24 06:26:43 <midnightmagic> i wonder if that would somehow count as proceeds of crime. :(
539 2011-04-24 06:26:52 <lfm> they are still trying to get people to accept their BTC in venusuala
540 2011-04-24 06:28:37 <lfm> and I seriously think some of the btc price moves we already seen are due to drug money
541 2011-04-24 06:33:00 <midnightmagic> tough speculative question to answer..
542 2011-04-24 06:35:19 <lfm> ya, its just a feeling, I got no real evidence
543 2011-04-24 06:35:56 <Androgynous> i was able to open up port 8333
544 2011-04-24 06:36:19 <Androgynous> is there a way to use tor
545 2011-04-24 06:36:25 <Androgynous> and have it open?
546 2011-04-24 06:36:35 <Androgynous> (for whatever i'm bouncing off of)
547 2011-04-24 06:36:52 <lfm> Androgynous: I dont think so , not with current systems
548 2011-04-24 06:37:17 <lfm> Androgynous: you need to look up ip address on onion router
549 2011-04-24 06:37:37 <Androgynous> well, i've been checking the ports
550 2011-04-24 06:37:39 <lfm> not hard just current bitcoin doesnt do it
551 2011-04-24 06:37:58 <Androgynous> if i check the port using tor
552 2011-04-24 06:38:01 <Androgynous> it says it is closed
553 2011-04-24 06:38:09 <da2ce7> lfm, maybe, but drug money is a completly differnt scale.
554 2011-04-24 06:38:27 <da2ce7> we are talking a market cap of trillions...
555 2011-04-24 06:38:28 <midnightmagic> $1k/? hilarious.
556 2011-04-24 06:38:38 <midnightmagic> i could retire..
557 2011-04-24 06:39:00 <RenaKunisaki> so we should start convincing drug dealers to use bitcoin? :p
558 2011-04-24 06:39:01 <Androgynous> i also opened 6667
559 2011-04-24 06:39:13 <Androgynous> that should help, right?
560 2011-04-24 06:39:15 <lfm> da2ce7: yes, i understand, theyre basiclly just dipping their toes in, if they can really make btc work for them it would be huge
561 2011-04-24 06:39:16 <sipa> depends on how much a $ is still worth
562 2011-04-24 06:39:25 <RenaKunisaki> I don't think you need 6667 open unless you're running an IRC server yourself
563 2011-04-24 06:39:30 <Androgynous> oh, okay
564 2011-04-24 06:39:41 <midnightmagic> problem: if people come to associate drugs with ?, they stop using it, and the value plummets.
565 2011-04-24 06:39:44 <RenaKunisaki> I'm pretty sure Bitcoin doesn't run an IRC server?
566 2011-04-24 06:39:48 <da2ce7> RenaKunisaki, let them find it themselves, better to not to encourage it.
567 2011-04-24 06:39:50 <slueth> Wouldn't the feds try to crush bitcoins then since they are so against drugs.
568 2011-04-24 06:39:53 <Androgynous> does that sound right guys?
569 2011-04-24 06:39:55 <RenaKunisaki> only connects to one
570 2011-04-24 06:40:13 <midnightmagic> put your drug money into ?.. and watch it DISAPPEAR!
571 2011-04-24 06:40:14 <lfm> slueth: ya that could also hap[pen
572 2011-04-24 06:40:38 <da2ce7> slueth, they will try and crush bitcoin beacasue drug money holds up the US dollar.
573 2011-04-24 06:40:49 <slueth> It probably does.
574 2011-04-24 06:40:56 <lfm> hehe
575 2011-04-24 06:41:20 <midnightmagic> the strength is the use and adoption by people at large. criminals, including gambling and douchebags selling hash on I2P, hurts the currency as a currency. there's a good reason why satoshi felt that wikileaks attention would destroy the currency.
576 2011-04-24 06:41:31 <midnightmagic> and they're not even criminals!
577 2011-04-24 06:41:32 <Androgynous> 15 connectiosn is decent, right?
578 2011-04-24 06:41:37 <midnightmagic> 15 connections is plenty.
579 2011-04-24 06:41:51 <slueth> I am stuck at 8 connections..
580 2011-04-24 06:41:52 <Androgynous> cool
581 2011-04-24 06:41:57 <midnightmagic> 8 connections is plenty.
582 2011-04-24 06:42:05 <Androgynous> i don't really need to be using tor now anyways
583 2011-04-24 06:42:11 <lfm> Androgynous: ya but once you accept connect it can go lots higher too
584 2011-04-24 06:42:12 <da2ce7> I'm completly indiffent to those things.  Monet is a way to tranfer value infomration between people.
585 2011-04-24 06:42:18 <da2ce7> *money
586 2011-04-24 06:42:20 <slueth> I must not have a port open.
587 2011-04-24 06:42:32 <Androgynous> prolly 8333
588 2011-04-24 06:42:36 <midnightmagic> you're indifferent to the currency plummeting in value?
589 2011-04-24 06:42:39 <Androgynous> i had to bring up my router
590 2011-04-24 06:42:49 <Androgynous> and open the port under applications and gaming
591 2011-04-24 06:42:53 <RenaKunisaki> nevermind drug money, I imagine they'll try to crush bitcoin just because it's not the US Dollar
592 2011-04-24 06:42:55 <da2ce7> I'm not for or aganst drug money.
593 2011-04-24 06:43:04 <Androgynous> i'm for money =3
594 2011-04-24 06:43:09 <da2ce7> I just want a free market.
595 2011-04-24 06:43:22 <Androgynous> well goodnight guys
596 2011-04-24 06:43:22 <da2ce7> Good comes from the freedom to be good.
597 2011-04-24 06:43:23 <Androgynous> cya
598 2011-04-24 06:43:23 <RenaKunisaki> also I was joking about encouraging drug dealers :p
599 2011-04-24 06:44:03 <midnightmagic> i wish satoshi would come back.
600 2011-04-24 06:44:26 <da2ce7> midnightmagic, it would be nice to read his calm words again
601 2011-04-24 06:45:03 <midnightmagic> i understand he doesn't like dealing with people much.
602 2011-04-24 06:45:09 <da2ce7> yeah
603 2011-04-24 06:45:42 <da2ce7> anyway, I have work tonight :)
604 2011-04-24 06:45:57 <retinal> take it easy :>
605 2011-04-24 06:46:04 <da2ce7> I'll try and keep everyone updated about the cards.
606 2011-04-24 06:46:06 <midnightmagic> but.. we've all jumped on his bandwagon and when we sidled up to the driver's seat, it's empty now and gavin's riding shotgun killing bandits.
607 2011-04-24 06:46:25 <midnightmagic> night da2ce7 !
608 2011-04-24 06:47:01 <da2ce7> midnightmagic, as I keep on saying it is the wild west, they didn't call it 'wild' for no reason
609 2011-04-24 06:47:19 <midnightmagic> somebody grab the reins! the driver's gone!
610 2011-04-24 06:47:42 <da2ce7> lol, who needs reins? just ride bareback.
611 2011-04-24 06:48:28 <lfm> um bareback is "without saddle" not "without reifns" ! grin
612 2011-04-24 06:49:12 <da2ce7> ah, yeah :P  well I guess I'm going to miss the crossing of $2 tonight :O
613 2011-04-24 06:52:33 <roconnor> are public keys and signature encoded big-endian?
614 2011-04-24 06:52:57 <lfm> roconnor: you can encode em whatevr way you want
615 2011-04-24 06:53:12 <lfm> roconnor: on x86 they ar little endian tho
616 2011-04-24 06:53:17 <roconnor> lfm: not if I want to communicate with other peers
617 2011-04-24 06:53:44 <lfm> roconnor: ok ya the protocol is mostly little endian
618 2011-04-24 06:58:33 <netxshare> bleh
619 2011-04-24 07:29:54 <sacarlson> I'm getting some scary results so far 04/24/11 09:27 generated 500.00 was able to be generated on the same chain so I guess you can create value grater than 50
620 2011-04-24 07:30:24 <sacarlson> my next test I will see if
621 2011-04-24 07:30:58 <RenaKunisaki> if...?
622 2011-04-24 07:31:05 <sacarlson> another client will accept the values in a transaction without making changes
623 2011-04-24 07:31:21 <sacarlson> sorry bumped the cr
624 2011-04-24 07:31:36 <RenaKunisaki> lol happens to me all the time
625 2011-04-24 07:32:17 <lfm> sacarlson: is the other client unmodified or are they both modified?
626 2011-04-24 07:32:22 <sacarlson> so I'm not sure if the same can be done on the real bitcoin chain
627 2011-04-24 07:33:09 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
628 2011-04-24 07:33:10 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.95,"low":1.3555,"vol":60834,"buy":1.6801,"sell":1.69,"last":1.69}}
629 2011-04-24 07:33:15 <sacarlson> lfm: well the other client I will have the modification to the start of the chain but will only  manipulate the changes in block creation value on one side
630 2011-04-24 07:34:05 <RenaKunisaki> nearing $2 per BTC?
631 2011-04-24 07:34:41 <sacarlson> RenaKunisaki: If what I might have found is true the btc value will go back down to $0.05
632 2011-04-24 07:34:51 <RenaKunisaki> heh
633 2011-04-24 07:36:06 <Blitzboom> sacarlson: lol, whatve you found?
634 2011-04-24 07:36:35 <Blitzboom> nvm, i read up
635 2011-04-24 07:37:05 <sacarlson> Blitzboom: maybe nothing but it would apear that you might be able to manipulate the value of a newly created block in a minned gen block
636 2011-04-24 07:38:14 <sacarlson> I guess I could release my git to have you guys take a look at it
637 2011-04-24 07:39:12 <midnightmagic> what happens if gavin gets eaten by a grue?
638 2011-04-24 07:39:24 <sipa> others will take over, i assume
639 2011-04-24 07:40:56 <lfm> sacarlson: If you have really found a bug, I am pretty sure it can be fixed quite easily and we can keep going
640 2011-04-24 07:41:14 <ThomasV> when I encrypt my wallet with opennssl enc -aes256, the output file is not constant. why ?
641 2011-04-24 07:41:26 <lfm> sacarlson: eg ref the overflow bug last october
642 2011-04-24 07:41:37 <RenaKunisaki> overflow bug? o.O
643 2011-04-24 07:42:36 <sacarlson> lfm: yes I'm sure you could, it's more likly I'm mistaken
644 2011-04-24 07:47:46 <roconnor> in OP_CHECKSIG is the subScript is generated from the concatination of the inputScript of the spender tranaction with the output of the spendee transaction?
645 2011-04-24 07:49:42 <lfm> I think its the hash of the input transaction and the index of the transaction outputs
646 2011-04-24 07:50:21 <sacarlson> lfm: ok I updated my git with my present changes https://github.com/sacarlson/bitcoin
647 2011-04-24 07:51:57 <lfm> sacarlson: its be nice if you could try it on the regular testnet
648 2011-04-24 07:52:31 <AAA_awright> What's with the recent massive spike
649 2011-04-24 07:52:39 <sacarlson> lfm: on testnet I don't think I have the power to create a new block for years
650 2011-04-24 07:52:57 <lfm> its only difficulty 11
651 2011-04-24 07:53:29 <sacarlson> lfm: what would that take for me with 900k/sec to find one?
652 2011-04-24 07:53:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 900 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11, is 14 hours, 34 minutes, and 54 seconds
653 2011-04-24 07:53:49 <lfm> ;;bc,calcd 900 11
654 2011-04-24 07:54:13 <sacarlson> lfm: ok 14 hours isn't too long I can do that
655 2011-04-24 07:54:41 <roconnor> OP_CHECKSIG says "An array of bytes is constructed from the serialized txCopy + four bytes for the hash type"
656 2011-04-24 07:54:53 <roconnor> what are the "four bytes for the hash type"?
657 2011-04-24 07:55:01 <sacarlson> lfm: I'll see if I can create a 500 btc value block with one new minned block
658 2011-04-24 07:55:10 <roconnor> the Hastype Values above are all 1 byte each
659 2011-04-24 07:55:49 <roconnor> sacarlson: surely if you produce such a block, no peer is going to accept it?
660 2011-04-24 07:56:10 <lfm> thats why I want him to try it on testnet
661 2011-04-24 07:56:15 <roconnor> :)
662 2011-04-24 07:56:21 <sacarlson> roconnor: I didn't even test to see if my own peer would accept it yet, so I may be ahead of myself
663 2011-04-24 07:56:27 <roconnor> ok
664 2011-04-24 07:56:52 <netxshare> ;;bc,diff
665 2011-04-24 07:56:53 <gribble> 92347.59095209
666 2011-04-24 07:57:02 <lfm> sacarlson: hehe ok ya, generating such a block is the easy part
667 2011-04-24 07:57:20 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
668 2011-04-24 07:57:20 <RenaKunisaki> ;;bc,gen 92347.59095209
669 2011-04-24 07:57:21 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 92347.59095209 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.00582838058 BTC per day and 0.0419095158577 BTC per hour.
670 2011-04-24 07:57:23 <gribble> 101753.22229856
671 2011-04-24 07:57:37 <sipa> checking the sourcecode
672 2011-04-24 07:58:01 <sipa> it is possible to have a generation of less than 50+fees, but not more
673 2011-04-24 07:58:36 <lfm> well he can generate more but your saying it wont be accepted
674 2011-04-24 07:58:49 <sipa> indeed
675 2011-04-24 07:58:54 <sipa> connectblock will refuse
676 2011-04-24 07:58:56 <netxshare> ;;bc,gen 11
677 2011-04-24 07:58:58 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 11 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.000119809429487 BTC per day and 4.99205956195e-06 BTC per hour.
678 2011-04-24 07:59:28 <topi`> :D
679 2011-04-24 07:59:59 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 900 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11, is 82.2950493206 BTC per day and 3.42896038836 BTC per hour.
680 2011-04-24 07:59:59 <sipa> ;;bc,gend 900 11
681 2011-04-24 08:00:07 <RenaKunisaki> I wonder how many hash/sec I'd get running a CPU miner on this 8-year-old single-core machine XP
682 2011-04-24 08:00:29 <topi`> my single-core ARM cpu does 160khash ;)
683 2011-04-24 08:00:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1600 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11, is 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 7 seconds
684 2011-04-24 08:00:49 <netxshare> ;;bc,calcd 1600 11
685 2011-04-24 08:00:58 <lfm> RenaKunisaki: not enuf to justify the power consumption
686 2011-04-24 08:00:59 <RenaKunisaki> haha, what clockspeed?
687 2011-04-24 08:01:17 <topi`> it's an ARM that runs at 500mhz, just like the Nokia N900
688 2011-04-24 08:01:18 <RenaKunisaki> lfm, yeah it'd be a waste for sure :p just morbidly curious
689 2011-04-24 08:01:44 <lfm> topi`: may be hard to get running on it too
690 2011-04-24 08:01:44 <RenaKunisaki> this machine would probably blow up if I tried to push it that hard anyway
691 2011-04-24 08:01:59 <gribble> (bc,gend <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
692 2011-04-24 08:01:59 <topi`> ;;bc,gend 2100
693 2011-04-24 08:02:04 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2100 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.0228727092656 BTC per day and 0.000953029552735 BTC per hour.
694 2011-04-24 08:02:04 <topi`> ;;bc,gen 2100
695 2011-04-24 08:02:40 <topi`> lfm: it's not hard, my ARMs run debian, and since they're little-endian, it's straightforward to compile the bitcoin client.
696 2011-04-24 08:04:02 <lfm> topi`: ok, thats good then
697 2011-04-24 08:06:04 <topi`> lfm: what I would like to have, would be SHA2 hw module, since AES hardware module already exists for the OMAP3 :)
698 2011-04-24 08:06:09 <netxshare> my Atom netbook gets 360 hashes
699 2011-04-24 08:06:38 <topi`> netxshare: and it still gets hot :)
700 2011-04-24 08:08:07 <lfm> topi`: check out VIA cpu's. they have sha256 instructions.
701 2011-04-24 08:10:20 <topi`> yes, they do, but that block might not be as powerful as one might think
702 2011-04-24 08:10:29 <topi`> it depends on the design, but I guess it's not pipelined.
703 2011-04-24 08:12:59 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 600000
704 2011-04-24 08:13:00 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 6.53505979018 BTC per day and 0.272294157924 BTC per hour.
705 2011-04-24 08:15:42 <netxshare> ;bc,gen 106349
706 2011-04-24 08:15:48 <netxshare> ;;bc,gen 106349
707 2011-04-24 08:15:49 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 106349 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.15832845604 BTC per day and 0.0482636856685 BTC per hour.
708 2011-04-24 08:29:09 <sacarlson> It would apear sipa is correct since when I bring up my client with settings of value of 50 for minning it has only accepted 138 blocks of the 146 blocks that my minner produced
709 2011-04-24 08:39:50 <curiositysquared> I think mining has gotten a lot more proffitable in the last few days. Hasn't it.
710 2011-04-24 08:39:53 <curiositysquared> :)
711 2011-04-24 08:41:51 <stamit> that probably won't be for long
712 2011-04-24 08:49:58 <chmod755> join #carrot
713 2011-04-24 09:10:27 <roconnor> I'm confused by the lenght of signatures.  I would expect a signature to be 32 + 32 + 1 = 65 bytes, but the signature I'm using as my example is 73 bytes.
714 2011-04-24 09:16:21 <roconnor> so clearly I don't understand how signatures are encoded
715 2011-04-24 09:16:33 <roconnor> I can't find any documentaiton on it either in the wiki
716 2011-04-24 09:17:17 <MagicalTux> roconnor: maybe the signature is encoded in ARN1 crap
717 2011-04-24 09:18:10 <necrodearia> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2478647
718 2011-04-24 09:19:33 <TD> roconnor: example?
719 2011-04-24 09:20:19 <roconnor> txiScript = [OP_PUSHDATA "0FSTX!NUL131147&3]U223178226173173158&7196H172246242230147$SYN`GS157168&1USy207#175VSTX!NUL187234~184134Aj145141er190159SI`194B249E196B146251b211229=eLC189250SOH"]
720 2011-04-24 09:21:02 <roconnor> er
721 2011-04-24 09:21:17 <roconnor> perhaps I can make that hex for you
722 2011-04-24 09:23:33 <roconnor> TD: txiScript = [OP_PUSHDATA "0x30,0x46,0x2,0x21,0x0,0x83,0x93,0x33,0x5d,0x55,0xdf,0xb2,0xe2,0xad,0xad,0x9e,0x37,0xc4,0x48,0xac,0xf6,0xf2,0xe6,0x93,0x24,0x16,0x60,0x1d,0x9d,0xa8,0x31,0x1f,0x79,0xcf,0x23,0xaf,0x56,0x2,0x21,0x0,0xbb,0xea,0x7e,0xb8,0x86,0x41,0x6a,0x91,0x8d,0x65,0x72,0xbe,0x9f,0xf,0x60,0xc2,0x42,0xf9,0x45,0xc4,0x42,0x92,0xfb,0x62,0xd3,0xe5,0x3d,0x65,0x4c,0x43,0xbd,0xfa,0x1"]
723 2011-04-24 09:24:01 <roconnor> the last 0x1 is the hashtype
724 2011-04-24 09:24:46 <TD> yes
725 2011-04-24 09:25:00 <TD> just a sec
726 2011-04-24 09:25:41 <sipa> signature size is 72 bytes for secp256k1
727 2011-04-24 09:25:56 <roconnor> really?
728 2011-04-24 09:27:59 <sipa> i do wonder what data it contains
729 2011-04-24 09:28:02 <roconnor> sipa: I haven't found a description of how to encode signature in either sec2.pdf or sec1.pdf
730 2011-04-24 09:29:25 <TD> the signature is a DER encoded structure containing two integers
731 2011-04-24 09:29:28 <TD> r and s
732 2011-04-24 09:29:48 <roconnor> DER?
733 2011-04-24 09:29:57 <TD> http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/browse/trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ECKey.java#160
734 2011-04-24 09:30:17 <TD> DER is a bit like protocol buffers, if you're familiar with them. a way to encode structured data.
735 2011-04-24 09:30:23 <TD> for the purposes of bitcoin it's just goop
736 2011-04-24 09:30:43 <TD> it'd be more efficient if it wasn't there and r/s were encoded separately using OP_PUSHDATA. however this is what OpenSSL produces
737 2011-04-24 09:30:55 <roconnor> heh
738 2011-04-24 09:31:02 <roconnor> this ought to be doucmented on the wiki
739 2011-04-24 09:31:15 <TD> yes, many things ought to be documented on the wiki, heh :-)
740 2011-04-24 09:31:17 <sipa> TD: for private keys it's even a lot worse
741 2011-04-24 09:31:29 <TD> yes, indeed
742 2011-04-24 09:31:35 <TD> http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/browse/trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ECKey.java#216
743 2011-04-24 09:31:44 <roconnor> at least the private keys are not part of the bitcoin protocol AFAIK
744 2011-04-24 09:31:47 <TD> see extractPrivateKeyFromASN1 for an example of that
745 2011-04-24 09:31:53 <TD> correct. they're stored in ASN.1 encoding in the wallet file.
746 2011-04-24 09:32:20 <TD> well satoshi format wallets anyway
747 2011-04-24 09:32:53 <sipa> it shouldn't be too hard to change that, actually
748 2011-04-24 09:33:22 <roconnor> I guess the bitcoin client uses openssl for it's encryption operations?
749 2011-04-24 09:33:24 <sipa> instead of key and wkey, use ckey and cwkey or something like that (c for compact, just storing the 32-byte private parameter)
750 2011-04-24 09:33:26 <TD> right
751 2011-04-24 09:33:41 <TD> sipa: sure. but it's probably not worth the complexity unless you have a wallet with millions of keys
752 2011-04-24 09:33:51 <sipa> probably not
753 2011-04-24 09:33:54 <TD> big merchants might do that one day, but they probably would have swapped out the wallet layer completely
754 2011-04-24 09:34:50 <TD> roconnor: what are you working on?
755 2011-04-24 09:35:36 <roconnor> I'm just writing my own client to learn how bitcoin works
756 2011-04-24 09:35:47 <TD> cool. what language? presumably you're implementing client-mode only for now ?
757 2011-04-24 09:36:17 <roconnor> Haskell.  Right now I'm just trying to read and verify existing blocks and transcations
758 2011-04-24 09:37:03 <TD> ok
759 2011-04-24 09:37:06 <roconnor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguished_Encoding_Rules
760 2011-04-24 09:37:20 <sipa> but still 32 bytes vs 279 bytes...
761 2011-04-24 09:37:48 <roconnor> 279?
762 2011-04-24 09:37:55 <roconnor> oh for private keys?
763 2011-04-24 09:38:16 <sipa> yes
764 2011-04-24 09:38:29 <sipa> roconnor: i knew i recognized your nickname from somewhere :D
765 2011-04-24 09:39:42 <TD> private key encodings include lots of unnecessary (for us) stuff
766 2011-04-24 09:39:59 <Blitzboom> necrodearia: put up a link to the video at weusecarrots.com
767 2011-04-24 09:40:01 <sipa> a PEM-encoded private bitcoin key is even 720 characters
768 2011-04-24 09:40:07 <Blitzboom> (image should link there)
769 2011-04-24 09:40:20 <necrodearia> Blitzboom, which video?
770 2011-04-24 09:40:22 <necrodearia> ah
771 2011-04-24 09:40:28 <Blitzboom> dont buy bitcoins
772 2011-04-24 09:40:29 <necrodearia> I linked to the witcoin thread.
773 2011-04-24 09:40:41 <Blitzboom> yeah, but the video is more fun
774 2011-04-24 09:40:43 <necrodearia> Ah, I know what I can do.
775 2011-04-24 09:40:54 <necrodearia> How about http://bitcoin.witcoin.com/p/1279/Dont-buy-bitcoins#r-1901 ? ^_^
776 2011-04-24 09:40:55 <Blitzboom> great job btw
777 2011-04-24 09:41:03 <Blitzboom> yeah, do that
778 2011-04-24 09:41:09 <necrodearia> updated
779 2011-04-24 09:41:15 <Blitzboom> really good stuff
780 2011-04-24 09:41:24 <Blitzboom> now if you could alter the favicon &
781 2011-04-24 09:41:28 <necrodearia> ah, right
782 2011-04-24 09:41:30 <Blitzboom> half earth, half carrot
783 2011-04-24 09:41:30 <necrodearia> forgot that
784 2011-04-24 09:41:33 <necrodearia> hmm
785 2011-04-24 09:44:48 <noagendamarket> add a link to weusecoins on the top too :)
786 2011-04-24 09:45:00 <noagendamarket> just as they did for weusecarrots lol
787 2011-04-24 09:46:07 <necrodearia> I set image to a carrot
788 2011-04-24 09:46:11 <necrodearia> Blitzboom, Does it look okay?
789 2011-04-24 09:46:23 <necrodearia> mm
790 2011-04-24 09:46:38 <Blitzboom> i dont see any difference
791 2011-04-24 09:46:47 <joepie92> the first bitcoin meme? :P
792 2011-04-24 09:46:50 <necrodearia> ctrl+shift+r
793 2011-04-24 09:46:52 <necrodearia> maybe a caching issue
794 2011-04-24 09:47:01 <Blitzboom> still the same
795 2011-04-24 09:47:07 <Blitzboom> joepie92: no, alpaca is the first
796 2011-04-24 09:47:12 <joepie92> ...?
797 2011-04-24 09:47:13 <joepie92> link?
798 2011-04-24 09:47:14 <Blitzboom> alpaca socks and satoshi
799 2011-04-24 09:49:04 <necrodearia> Does justmoon use IRC?
800 2011-04-24 09:49:17 <necrodearia> Blitzboom, Visit http://weusecarrots.com/favicon.ico then ctrl+shift+r
801 2011-04-24 09:49:52 <Blitzboom> yup, thats cool
802 2011-04-24 09:50:01 <joepie92> just curious
803 2011-04-24 09:50:14 <joepie92> if my netstat shows 3-5 connections to the same other server
804 2011-04-24 09:50:17 <joepie92> with status SYN_SENT
805 2011-04-24 09:50:20 <joepie92> ... wtf is happening?
806 2011-04-24 09:50:29 <joepie92> it's as if my box is synflooding that IP, but idk how
807 2011-04-24 09:50:54 <Blitzboom> another suggestion, necrodearia: link to weuscoins.com
808 2011-04-24 09:51:02 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
809 2011-04-24 09:51:02 <necrodearia> yep, working on that
810 2011-04-24 09:51:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.95,"low":1.3614,"vol":62108,"buy":1.6421,"sell":1.7,"last":1.747}}
811 2011-04-24 09:51:03 <noagendamarket> yes
812 2011-04-24 10:06:58 <roconnor> I verified a transaction!!