1 2011-04-26 00:06:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.701,"low":1.5211,"vol":15075,"buy":1.5564,"sell":1.595,"last":1.595}}
  2 2011-04-26 00:06:38 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
  3 2011-04-26 00:06:45 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
  4 2011-04-26 00:06:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120210 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 749 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 12 hours, 23 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 104784.37005952
  5 2011-04-26 00:09:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rfbad645b4bd7 gentoo/dev-libs/jansson/ (.git-info Manifest jansson-1.3.ebuild): Import dev-libs/jansson-1.3 from "nikai" overlay http://tinyurl.com/5spvsz3
  6 2011-04-26 00:10:30 <luke-jr> ;;later tell jgarzik for some reason, pushpool only links if -lmysqlclient is listed on the command line AFTER db-mysql.o
  7 2011-04-26 00:10:31 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
  8 2011-04-26 00:14:04 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,calc 1036000
  9 2011-04-26 00:14:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1036000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 4 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes, and 47 seconds
 10 2011-04-26 00:14:15 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,est 1036000
 11 2011-04-26 00:14:15 <gribble> Error: "bc,est" is not a valid command.
 12 2011-04-26 00:14:20 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,estimate 1036000
 13 2011-04-26 00:14:20 <gribble> 104784.37005952
 14 2011-04-26 00:14:57 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,gen 1036000
 15 2011-04-26 00:14:58 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1036000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 11.2838699044 BTC per day and 0.470161246016 BTC per hour.
 16 2011-04-26 00:15:20 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,gend 1036000 104784.37005952
 17 2011-04-26 00:15:20 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1036000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 104784.37005952, is 9.94459576069 BTC per day and 0.414358156696 BTC per hour.
 18 2011-04-26 00:16:10 <programe> ;;bc,gen 750000
 19 2011-04-26 00:16:11 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 750000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 8.16882473773 BTC per day and 0.340367697405 BTC per hour.
 20 2011-04-26 00:17:55 <programe> ;;bc,gen 120000
 21 2011-04-26 00:17:56 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.30701195804 BTC per day and 0.0544588315849 BTC per hour.
 22 2011-04-26 00:19:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r8a79b9003b5f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: Initial import of live-git http://tinyurl.com/5vp4z9e
 23 2011-04-26 00:29:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rede72535995f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: 0.3 http://tinyurl.com/4y9lv53
 24 2011-04-26 01:01:51 <programe> CPU :: Ufasoft's SSE2 miner would work with pushpool?
 25 2011-04-26 01:22:36 <programe> im getting upstream RPC error
 26 2011-04-26 01:22:40 <programe> does anyone know what it means?
 27 2011-04-26 01:25:07 <B0g4r7> It means about what you'd think.
 28 2011-04-26 01:28:08 <programe> B0g4r7 what?
 29 2011-04-26 01:28:37 <EPiSKiNG> anyone else notice an issue with teh new Phoenix miner not getting the correct MH/s?
 30 2011-04-26 01:29:18 <EPiSKiNG> I ran mine for a like an hour, and the MH/s show better than poclbm, but when I check deepbit's reports, it shows a substantial decrease
 31 2011-04-26 01:30:21 <fabianhjr> I have been searching for a while and I am 95% sure there was a Pledge for a MyBitcoin FOSS alternative. :/
 32 2011-04-26 01:31:00 <dust1> EPiSKiNG: sample size?
 33 2011-04-26 01:34:30 <Kiba> so, what happens to your magainze, fabianhjr
 34 2011-04-26 01:35:24 <fabianhjr> Not much, that really happened. After we parted blogs poped up and there was no writing taking place. So now I am back to coding, graphics, and security.
 35 2011-04-26 01:35:28 <Kiba> don't you have this thing called the bitcoin times when I briefly help run it
 36 2011-04-26 01:35:46 <Kiba> so you gave up
 37 2011-04-26 01:35:54 <fabianhjr> Kiba: yes, I still have the files if you want them.
 38 2011-04-26 01:36:12 <Kiba> nothing interesting I already extracted, plus I do only public domain
 39 2011-04-26 01:36:15 <fabianhjr> Kiba: I moved to another marketplace. I made my profits in the journalism area.
 40 2011-04-26 01:36:41 <Kiba> where do you make your bitcoin now?
 41 2011-04-26 01:36:48 <fabianhjr> Kiba: yes, I know. Though, I offered because maybe you would want a copy with the other articles.
 42 2011-04-26 01:36:51 <EPiSKiNG> dust1: phoenix -u http://user:pass@deepbit.net:8332/;askrate=15 -k poclbm DEVICE=2 VECTORS AGGRESSION=10 -v FASTLOOP BFI_INT
 43 2011-04-26 01:37:11 <fabianhjr> Kiba: doing a Bitcoin class in PHP then moving to do a MyBitcoin alternative, FOSS.
 44 2011-04-26 01:37:27 <dust1> EPiSKing: I mean what sample size are you basing your conclusion on.
 45 2011-04-26 01:37:30 <Kiba> persistance*
 46 2011-04-26 01:37:44 <fabianhjr> Kiba: you aren't profiting from your Weekly. You still haven't won the fight. :P
 47 2011-04-26 01:38:01 <Kiba> but I got more traffics
 48 2011-04-26 01:38:15 <fabianhjr> Have you surpassed your 1K Bitcoin wish? I remember 3-5 months ago you were bragging about getting your hand to all the bitcoins you could.
 49 2011-04-26 01:38:28 <fabianhjr> :D
 50 2011-04-26 01:38:40 <EPiSKiNG> 1 hr
 51 2011-04-26 01:38:48 <Kiba> fabianhjr: not really
 52 2011-04-26 01:39:00 <dust1> Episking: probably not signifigant
 53 2011-04-26 01:39:01 <Kiba> but my revenues better now
 54 2011-04-26 01:39:04 <Kiba> .11 BTC a day
 55 2011-04-26 01:39:11 <fabianhjr> LOL, ok, that was the biggest impression I got from you when I met you.
 56 2011-04-26 01:39:22 <fabianhjr> s/met/meet/
 57 2011-04-26 01:39:32 <Kiba> fabianhjr: anyway, I have 445 BTC
 58 2011-04-26 01:39:38 <Kiba> and I still do scrap for bitcoin
 59 2011-04-26 01:40:32 <fabianhjr> LOL, at least you didn't follow genjix path of saling himself.
 60 2011-04-26 01:42:01 <Kiba> apperantly, I made a profit of 320% at witcoin
 61 2011-04-26 01:43:45 <fabianhjr> Kiba: congratz! You deserve it for your journalism!
 62 2011-04-26 01:44:10 <hello_> Hey guys, I have a quick question.
 63 2011-04-26 01:44:23 <programe> which year it will be 1 block = 25 btc ? right now its 1 block = 50 btc.... when it will happen to be 1 block = 25 btc?
 64 2011-04-26 01:44:37 <B0g4r7> At block 210000.
 65 2011-04-26 01:44:40 <shazow> programe: in 2 years i believe
 66 2011-04-26 01:44:57 <programe> shazow: 2014 ?
 67 2011-04-26 01:45:01 <hello_> I made 5 successive payments of .2 btn to a gambling website about 40 minutes ago but they are all still unconfirmed :(
 68 2011-04-26 01:45:06 <hello_> Does anyone know why?
 69 2011-04-26 01:45:09 <shazow> programe: i think so (don't quite one m on that)
 70 2011-04-26 01:45:15 <hello_> All my other transactions are getting confirmations.
 71 2011-04-26 01:45:20 <shazow> programe: 2013 i think
 72 2011-04-26 01:45:36 <programe> shazow: and when that happens it will be required to have the double processing power to earn 50 btc in the same amount of time that we do now?
 73 2011-04-26 01:45:43 <B0g4r7> Maybe you're unlucky and the block producers decided not to include your transactions.
 74 2011-04-26 01:45:53 <B0g4r7> Wait more.
 75 2011-04-26 01:46:01 <B0g4r7> Or include a tx fee.
 76 2011-04-26 01:46:03 <shazow> programe: no, since the rate is scaled by the processing power, if everyone doubles it then it will remain the same
 77 2011-04-26 01:46:14 <B0g4r7> Roughly scaled.
 78 2011-04-26 01:46:15 <shazow> programe: you'll require double relative to everyone else's staying the same
 79 2011-04-26 01:46:26 <hello_> B0g4r7, how often does that happen? And about how long should I wait?
 80 2011-04-26 01:46:41 <B0g4r7> A block is generated about every 10 minutes.
 81 2011-04-26 01:46:41 <programe> shazow: so basically if my 6990 card now does 50btc each 6 days, how much it will do in year 2014 or so ?
 82 2011-04-26 01:47:00 <programe> 25 btc?
 83 2011-04-26 01:47:04 <B0g4r7> Every time that happens, the block producer has an opportunity to add your transactions to the chain.
 84 2011-04-26 01:47:10 <shazow> programe: that all depends on how many people are mining, if you assume the same compute power exists in the total mining pool, then you'll get 25 btc in 6 days
 85 2011-04-26 01:47:22 <B0g4r7> Depends on difficulty.
 86 2011-04-26 01:47:32 <programe> i see
 87 2011-04-26 01:48:05 <hello_> I've been waiting for 40 minutes, so it seems like I missed out on 4 opportunities to have my transactions added to the chain :(
 88 2011-04-26 01:48:35 <B0g4r7> Did you include a transaction fee?
 89 2011-04-26 01:48:50 <B0g4r7> Also make sure you're connected to peers and see the block count advancing.
 90 2011-04-26 01:50:10 <hello_> 34 connections. Did not include a fee as I didn't see an option for it when I sent payments to PROBIWON through the default Bitcoin client.
 91 2011-04-26 01:50:41 <hello_> Actually the block count isn't advancing, weird...
 92 2011-04-26 01:50:52 <hello_> Although I have 35 connections.
 93 2011-04-26 01:50:52 <retinal> ;;bc,blocks
 94 2011-04-26 01:50:53 <gribble> 120227
 95 2011-04-26 01:51:02 <hello_> Yep, 120227
 96 2011-04-26 01:51:02 <retinal> are you on the current one?
 97 2011-04-26 01:51:08 <hello_> Yep
 98 2011-04-26 01:51:59 <retinal> it's a waiting game, then
 99 2011-04-26 01:52:12 <hello_> 120228! :P
100 2011-04-26 01:52:18 <retinal> ;;bc,blocks
101 2011-04-26 01:52:19 <gribble> 120228
102 2011-04-26 01:52:22 <retinal> :o
103 2011-04-26 01:52:30 <hello_> :o
104 2011-04-26 01:53:04 <B0g4r7> http://blockexplorer.com/b/120228
105 2011-04-26 01:53:13 <B0g4r7> You can see if you see your transaction in the block.
106 2011-04-26 01:53:45 <B0g4r7> I see a couple payments of 2 btc.
107 2011-04-26 01:54:51 <hello_> Confirmed ;) Wow that took forever.
108 2011-04-26 01:55:58 <B0g4r7> Now you get to wait some more, for 6 confirmations, assuming that's the requirement.
109 2011-04-26 01:56:13 <hello_> Just one confirmation :)
110 2011-04-26 01:56:24 <hello_> So how come the block count was going up so rapidly today?
111 2011-04-26 01:56:28 <B0g4r7> 1 confirmation per block.
112 2011-04-26 01:56:29 <hello_> And now it's slower.
113 2011-04-26 01:56:42 <B0g4r7> Maybe someone switched off some miners.
114 2011-04-26 01:56:59 <hello_> Please tell them to turn it back on <3
115 2011-04-26 01:57:03 <B0g4r7> Or if you just started your client and it was behind it had to catch up.
116 2011-04-26 01:57:12 <hello_> I think IBM should get in on this mining.
117 2011-04-26 01:57:20 <hello_> Get those blocks up faster.
118 2011-04-26 01:57:30 <B0g4r7> The network will readjust no matter how muchy compute power is brought to bear.
119 2011-04-26 01:57:47 <B0g4r7> To achieve a constant rate of 1 block per 10 minutes (or so)
120 2011-04-26 01:57:48 <hello_> So the number of blocks always increases at the same rate?
121 2011-04-26 01:57:54 <hello_> Ah, I see.
122 2011-04-26 01:57:57 <B0g4r7> However...
123 2011-04-26 01:57:58 <retinal> but ... then the difficulty will adjust accordingly to average one block every ten minu... what B0g4r7 said
124 2011-04-26 01:58:07 <B0g4r7> Difficulty readjustent only occurs once per 2016 blocks.
125 2011-04-26 01:58:16 <B0g4r7> So you could gain a temporary boost.
126 2011-04-26 01:58:27 <hello_> Yeah.
127 2011-04-26 01:59:22 <B0g4r7> If someone wanted to hose the network, they could bring in massive power, wait for the readjustment, and then drop off.
128 2011-04-26 01:59:52 <B0g4r7> Drop the block rate to one per 120 minutes or something.
129 2011-04-26 02:00:00 <B0g4r7> Then it would be forever until the next readjustment.
130 2011-04-26 02:00:05 <B0g4r7> Then they could pull the same thing again.
131 2011-04-26 02:00:40 <B0g4r7> Even worse, bring in massive power, but encode no transactions in any blocks solved.
132 2011-04-26 02:00:43 <hello_> Jeez.
133 2011-04-26 02:00:58 <hello_> What safeproofs are there against that?
134 2011-04-26 02:01:11 <B0g4r7> Lots of grassroots power...?
135 2011-04-26 02:01:14 <programe> YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
136 2011-04-26 02:01:20 <programe> I GOT PUSHPOOL WORKING
137 2011-04-26 02:01:21 <programe> HAHA
138 2011-04-26 02:01:28 <programe> IT TAKED ME 4 DAYS
139 2011-04-26 02:01:36 <programe> full working days
140 2011-04-26 02:01:52 <B0g4r7> I don't know what that is, but right on.
141 2011-04-26 02:01:55 <hello_> Pushpool?
142 2011-04-26 02:02:45 <programe> https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool
143 2011-04-26 02:02:50 <programe> yeah its a polling software
144 2011-04-26 02:02:56 <programe> to create pools
145 2011-04-26 02:02:58 <programe> polls
146 2011-04-26 02:03:04 <programe> mining pools
147 2011-04-26 02:03:14 <B0g4r7> Push notification of a new block?
148 2011-04-26 02:03:33 <programe> yes, and share earnings between miners etc
149 2011-04-26 02:40:58 <programe> jgarzik
150 2011-04-26 02:41:27 <Kiba> I argued with a bitcoin user on twitter who argued that the exchanges are already decentralized
151 2011-04-26 02:41:46 <jrabbit> lol.
152 2011-04-26 02:42:07 <Kiba> mtgox got a big fat bank account painted on it
153 2011-04-26 02:42:21 <Kiba> tell me that's not centralized
154 2011-04-26 02:42:27 <Kiba> it's a big fat choke point
155 2011-04-26 02:43:25 <programe> jgarzik: pushpool isnt registering the shares for some reason, do you have idea why? i need to wait until the miners solve one whole block for anything to be registered?
156 2011-04-26 02:53:04 <programe> weird
157 2011-04-26 02:53:37 <Kiba> jgarzik: so, will pastecoin get back?
158 2011-04-26 02:55:14 <programe> jgarzik isnt answering :/
159 2011-04-26 02:56:10 <programe> weird
160 2011-04-26 02:56:14 <programe> when he will be back
161 2011-04-26 02:56:26 <ersi> lol
162 2011-04-26 02:56:51 <programe> weird
163 2011-04-26 02:56:53 <programe> i didnt know
164 2011-04-26 02:57:01 <jgarzik> learn some IRC etiquette, people
165 2011-04-26 02:57:02 <programe> sorry
166 2011-04-26 02:57:58 <programe> jgarzik: can you help me to answer some questions regarding pushpool?
167 2011-04-26 02:58:16 <jgarzik> as long as it's not fscking beep beep beep with each message.  damn.
168 2011-04-26 02:58:21 <jgarzik> highlight I can deal with.
169 2011-04-26 02:58:38 <ersi> programe: How about taking a hint
170 2011-04-26 02:58:53 <programe> jgarzik: one thing to note is that blkmond crashes every 10 min or so
171 2011-04-26 02:59:15 <programe> jgarzik: probably because my bitcoin server client is newer than the protocol it supports?
172 2011-04-26 03:00:09 <programe> jgarzik: minerd works okay with the pushpool setup i have made using json-http interface however CPU :: Ufasoft's SSE2 miner doesnt work ?
173 2011-04-26 03:00:40 <programe> jgarzik: i see minerd to hash and show MHash/s etc however i dont see any shares beign recordered on the db
174 2011-04-26 03:00:57 <programe> jgarzik: those are all the questions :)
175 2011-04-26 03:01:27 <ersi> (??????)
176 2011-04-26 03:03:21 <programe> jgarzik ?
177 2011-04-26 03:03:52 <ersi> I hope he did put you on ignore, 'cause you sure are annoying
178 2011-04-26 03:04:08 <programe> i tought this channel is to discuss dev stuff
179 2011-04-26 03:04:14 <programe> im joining his project to solve bugs
180 2011-04-26 03:04:16 <programe> and review the code
181 2011-04-26 03:04:19 <programe> and implement new features
182 2011-04-26 03:04:28 <programe> and he is not going to help me to join
183 2011-04-26 03:04:29 <programe> ?
184 2011-04-26 03:04:35 <ersi> then go and review the code
185 2011-04-26 03:04:38 <programe> i tought open source developers were more open
186 2011-04-26 03:04:45 <programe> and friendly
187 2011-04-26 03:04:46 <davex__> hmm...  wonder how phoenix miner could possibly run the gpu cooler but get better mh/s than other miners
188 2011-04-26 03:05:15 <jgarzik> open source means you are free to read the code and figure out problems youself.
189 2011-04-26 03:05:19 <ersi> Well, you can't just expect to get support just cause something is open.
190 2011-04-26 03:05:20 <jgarzik> Free support is ----> that way
191 2011-04-26 03:05:39 <programe> jgarzik: i can pay
192 2011-04-26 03:05:47 <programe> jgarzik: if thats what you want
193 2011-04-26 03:06:15 <ersi> Oh man, exactly what I'd wish for when on vacation! Work! :)
194 2011-04-26 03:06:22 <jgarzik> yeah really
195 2011-04-26 03:06:41 <programe> however my idea was to join and help on the project and work togheter in team
196 2011-04-26 03:06:56 <programe> i just have those questions and nothing more
197 2011-04-26 03:07:13 <jgarzik> might have to cut vacation short to deal with daughter's croup, even :/  We'll see in the morning.
198 2011-04-26 03:07:14 <nanotube> programe: it seems jg has other things on his mind atm... so just save your inquiries for a bit later.
199 2011-04-26 03:07:27 <programe> okay
200 2011-04-26 03:07:28 <ersi> jgarzik: Croup? :o
201 2011-04-26 03:07:32 <programe> no problem
202 2011-04-26 03:07:43 <programe> ill research the code myself
203 2011-04-26 03:08:00 <programe> however im a bit dissapointed
204 2011-04-26 03:08:10 <ersi> jgarzik: Ouch, that does not seem nice. Hope she'll get better man
205 2011-04-26 03:08:13 <nanotube> jgarzik: haha i was going to ask if your daughter is a horse... then used the dict to figure out it has alternate meaning :)
206 2011-04-26 03:08:30 <nanotube> best wishes on your daughter's health.
207 2011-04-26 03:08:48 <programe> jgarzik: best whishes
208 2011-04-26 03:09:07 <programe> jgarzik: hopefully we can work togheter in a future
209 2011-04-26 03:09:31 <programe> meanwhile ill have to review the code and anser the questions myself :P
210 2011-04-26 03:09:37 <programe> *answer
211 2011-04-26 03:09:40 <Androgynous> hey...
212 2011-04-26 03:09:57 <Androgynous> can anyone here maybe possibly help me with my bitcoin.conf for namecoin?
213 2011-04-26 03:10:07 <Androgynous> i'm getting an error saying that i need to set my rpcpassword
214 2011-04-26 03:10:10 <Androgynous> but i made the file
215 2011-04-26 03:10:16 <programe> whats namecoin
216 2011-04-26 03:10:55 <programe> i see distributed name system..
217 2011-04-26 03:10:57 <Androgynous> chain seperate from bitcoin
218 2011-04-26 03:11:05 <Androgynous> yeah, it involved domains and names
219 2011-04-26 03:11:17 <Androgynous> but to run namecoind
220 2011-04-26 03:11:23 <Androgynous> i need a bitcoin.conf
221 2011-04-26 03:11:45 <programe> Diablo-D3: does diablo miner supports http-json requests?
222 2011-04-26 03:11:50 <Androgynous> C:UsersUserAppDataRoamingNamecoin
223 2011-04-26 03:11:53 <Androgynous> i have it saves there
224 2011-04-26 03:12:08 <Androgynous> where it tells me to save it
225 2011-04-26 03:12:16 <Androgynous> as owner-readable-only
226 2011-04-26 03:13:57 <Androgynous> perhaps i'm going about setting it as "owner-readable-only"
227 2011-04-26 03:14:01 <Androgynous> wrong
228 2011-04-26 03:14:12 <Androgynous> ping me if anyone thinks they can help
229 2011-04-26 04:02:39 <bk128> anyone know the name of the site that shows a moving chart of all the transactions by size?
230 2011-04-26 04:18:28 <midnightmagic> bitcoin watch?
231 2011-04-26 04:19:37 <midnightmagic> nope..
232 2011-04-26 04:20:01 <Diablo-D3> [01:11:45] <programe> Diablo-D3: does diablo miner supports http-json requests?
233 2011-04-26 04:20:07 <Diablo-D3> how else would it work?
234 2011-04-26 04:25:41 <luke-jr> does anyone know DataSurfer? is he on IRC?
235 2011-04-26 04:25:57 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: all the other pools have or are moving to push-based mining
236 2011-04-26 04:28:23 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: yes, which is kind of nuts when they're all going to have to convert to mine.
237 2011-04-26 04:53:40 <chmod755> http://random.witcoin.com/p/1302/OperationTop10
238 2011-04-26 05:31:53 <genjix> tcatm: britcoin has been up and functioning but disappeared from bitcoinwatch since yesterday
239 2011-04-26 05:32:18 <genjix> appears on bitcoincharts though
240 2011-04-26 05:45:25 <midnightmagic> bitcoinmonitor.com is the one..
241 2011-04-26 05:46:09 <genjix> bitcoinmonitor isnt for currencies
242 2011-04-26 05:52:44 <ersi> Holy fuck, people trading 1 BTC for 1.5 USD o_o
243 2011-04-26 05:56:33 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
244 2011-04-26 05:56:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120263 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 696 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 3 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 105916.19630086
245 2011-04-26 05:56:58 <midnightmagic> bk128 was asking for moving chart of transactions by size.
246 2011-04-26 05:57:35 <gribble> (105,916.19630086 - 92,347.59095209) / 92,347.59095209 = 0.146929716
247 2011-04-26 05:57:35 <midnightmagic> ;;calc (105916.19630086-92347.59095209)/92347.59095209
248 2011-04-26 05:57:37 <cosurgi> ArtForz: what is the endianness of time in "DATA   : 000002800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080000000_nonce__~target~==time==_merkle_" ?
249 2011-04-26 05:57:55 <midnightmagic> 14.7% increase.
250 2011-04-26 05:58:01 <midnightmagic> that's..  a bit high.
251 2011-04-26 05:58:15 <cosurgi> ArtForz: I am looking at 'time' from different blocks and only the high bits are changing, not low bits.
252 2011-04-26 05:59:53 <lfm> cosurgi: you mean like the "data" in getwork?
253 2011-04-26 06:01:29 <lfm> cosurgi: the "data" in getwork is 32 bit big endian
254 2011-04-26 06:02:12 <lfm> they byteswap it as an optimization for the sha256 routine
255 2011-04-26 06:02:56 <Compgenius> hey guys, how would I clear my transaction list in bitcoin?
256 2011-04-26 06:03:27 <cosurgi> lfm: yep, I just reversed the bytes, and I got a correct time.
257 2011-04-26 06:03:29 <Compgenius> atm my bitcoin "all transactions" is flooded with my bitcoin winnings and sendings
258 2011-04-26 06:04:19 <CFSworks> Compgenius: Create a new wallet, send all your BTC there, delete the old one?
259 2011-04-26 06:04:22 <lfm> Compgenius: you cant
260 2011-04-26 06:04:32 <ersi> Modify the client :)
261 2011-04-26 06:05:05 <CFSworks> Moving all your Bitcoins into a new wallet would work... You lose your old addresses though. :(
262 2011-04-26 06:05:58 <Compgenius> not necessarily a good idea to lose all my address...
263 2011-04-26 06:06:05 <Compgenius> I'll just leave them for now
264 2011-04-26 06:06:10 <ersi> So keep your old wallet around
265 2011-04-26 06:07:58 <Compgenius> just to show you... http://cg999.ath.cx/imgs/lolcoin.png damn thats going to be annoying...
266 2011-04-26 06:08:35 <retinal> pshaw, that's not even 100 transactions
267 2011-04-26 06:09:33 <CFSworks> I have 113 and it's not so bad as long as I don't stare at the scrollbar.
268 2011-04-26 06:09:40 <ersi> That's why one usually has a 'internal balance' on sites and then either deposit or withdraw
269 2011-04-26 06:09:56 <CFSworks> It's like fear of heights: Don't look at how bad it is and you won't get sick to your stomach.
270 2011-04-26 06:10:18 <Compgenius> counted em, 63.
271 2011-04-26 06:10:39 <CFSworks> That's odd. The lower-right corner says 67.
272 2011-04-26 06:10:53 <Compgenius> meh, might have skipped a few numbers
273 2011-04-26 06:11:15 <CFSworks> With so many similar transactions I'd get lose count too.
274 2011-04-26 06:11:17 <Compgenius> sometimes i accidently skip from say 45 to 50 >_>
275 2011-04-26 06:11:43 <Compgenius> btw CFSworks, those transactions were all done within the space of a day
276 2011-04-26 06:12:36 <CFSworks> Wow. Are all of them small trades too?
277 2011-04-26 06:12:51 <Compgenius> yeah
278 2011-04-26 06:12:55 <Compgenius> 0.01-0.02
279 2011-04-26 06:13:12 <Compgenius> there's only one transaction that wasn't on the 25th
280 2011-04-26 06:13:13 <CFSworks> I can see what you mean. That would give me a headache.
281 2011-04-26 06:13:13 <ersi> sounds like a lottery or some other small-change game
282 2011-04-26 06:13:26 <Compgenius> and that was on the 14th, when i got my 0.05 from the faucet
283 2011-04-26 06:13:33 <Compgenius> CFSworks, bitcoin darts
284 2011-04-26 06:13:39 <Compgenius> really needs some sort-of on site wallet
285 2011-04-26 06:13:41 <Compgenius> >_>
286 2011-04-26 06:13:45 <CFSworks> Hmm...
287 2011-04-26 06:13:45 <ersi> I agree :)
288 2011-04-26 06:13:55 <Compgenius> new address to send to every time you bet
289 2011-04-26 06:14:35 <CFSworks> Hmm...
290 2011-04-26 06:14:45 <ersi> Seems like you've done +- 0 :)
291 2011-04-26 06:14:59 <Compgenius> ersi, it's more or less -0.10
292 2011-04-26 06:15:08 <CFSworks> What Bitcoin needs is a "hide old transactions" option that hides anything older than X transactions.
293 2011-04-26 06:15:08 <Compgenius> since i got 0.10 off of a friend to bring it to 0.15
294 2011-04-26 06:17:42 <CFSworks> To any core Bitcoin developers online right now: What do you think about a "Show only last [      ] transactions in the main window." textbox to be added to the GUI preferences?
295 2011-04-26 06:18:01 <Compgenius> CFSworks, i'm surprised there's not a remove transaction option
296 2011-04-26 06:18:12 <Compgenius> to get rid of a transaction, or atleast a deleted transaction tab
297 2011-04-26 06:18:13 <Compgenius> >_>
298 2011-04-26 06:19:31 <CFSworks> "Removing" a transaction isn't in the design of Bitcoin, since it's stored permanently in the block chain.
299 2011-04-26 06:19:43 <CFSworks> "Hide" would be a little less misleading.
300 2011-04-26 06:21:06 <retinal> request: filter by address
301 2011-04-26 06:22:15 <retinal> actually, scratch that; it'd be impractical after a couple months of intense usage
302 2011-04-26 06:22:17 <retinal> (??????)
303 2011-04-26 06:22:54 <CFSworks> Compgenius, did you develop the darts game?
304 2011-04-26 06:28:33 <Compgenius> CFSworks, nope
305 2011-04-26 06:29:12 <Compgenius> retinal, it really would be useless, since a lot of sites generate a random address for every transaction you make to them
306 2011-04-26 06:30:11 <ersi> filter by label, then.
307 2011-04-26 06:33:16 <Compgenius> actually yeah.. that makes more sense ersi
308 2011-04-26 06:40:21 <genjix> thing i dont get is why so many boost::asio examples use threads when they suck and a reactor pattern means you don't have to use them.
309 2011-04-26 06:52:25 <doublec> probably to take advantage of multiple cores
310 2011-04-26 07:20:12 <RenaKunisaki> https://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/58349704-6eab-4b4f-bf4e-358a7235b75c.jpg  there's a Bitcoin joke in here somewhere...
311 2011-04-26 07:31:12 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
312 2011-04-26 07:31:13 <gribble> 120278
313 2011-04-26 07:31:50 <gribble> 0.729372504234
314 2011-04-26 07:31:50 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1200000 5d
315 2011-04-26 07:41:11 <gribble> Error: float division
316 2011-04-26 07:41:11 <RenaKunisaki> ;;bc,gen 0
317 2011-04-26 07:41:54 <lfm> ;;bc,gen 0.001
318 2011-04-26 07:41:57 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 0.001 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.0891766317e-08 BTC per day and 4.53823596541e-10 BTC per hour.
319 2011-04-26 07:59:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * rcc5ed7a95ba9 intersango/util.php: added ignore status. http://tinyurl.com/6k5feth
320 2011-04-26 08:11:06 <omglolbbq> guys is there a windows desktop gadget to monitor mtgox?
321 2011-04-26 08:26:09 <toffoo> omglolbbq: i think so .. but looks like he's trying to sell it for 1BTC:  http://www.reddit.com/r/BitMarket/comments/g94bq/bitcoin_widget_for_windows_for_sale_1_bitcoin/
322 2011-04-26 08:33:12 <xelister> hi, when starting new bitcoin node
323 2011-04-26 08:33:25 <xelister> how to copy chain files, which ones exactly are needed to not redownload
324 2011-04-26 08:42:47 <omglolbbq> tnx toffoo
325 2011-04-26 08:43:24 <eps> ;;bc,stats
326 2011-04-26 08:43:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120288 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 671 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 21 hours, 11 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 106298.92485892
327 2011-04-26 08:43:44 <eps> woah quite a jump there
328 2011-04-26 08:44:50 <eps> it seems like the value rallys are pushing up the difficulty, which seems backwards to me
329 2011-04-26 08:48:47 <Diablo-D3> eps: people are mining harder
330 2011-04-26 08:48:49 <Diablo-D3> to get the money
331 2011-04-26 08:49:25 <eps> yeah, i guess it makes sense
332 2011-04-26 08:50:49 <eps> i think what bitcoin really needs to take off though is some stability
333 2011-04-26 08:51:11 <eps> even if it is stable at low dollar price
334 2011-04-26 08:51:42 <eps> cos at least then people can plan more effectively
335 2011-04-26 09:05:38 <manveru> eps: it won't get stable if people aren't using it
336 2011-04-26 09:06:00 <manveru> mtgox finally seems to be picking up in volume
337 2011-04-26 09:07:57 <manveru> but it's still just a few people compared to common exchanges...
338 2011-04-26 09:10:33 <Compgenius> eps, probably due to all the pools
339 2011-04-26 09:46:12 <xelister> eps: yea
340 2011-04-26 09:46:25 <xelister> fuck 110k diff
341 2011-04-26 09:47:04 <eps> manveru: if it is never stable then it is unlikely to take off in a big way
342 2011-04-26 09:47:13 <eps> and by stable i don't mean static
343 2011-04-26 09:48:15 <eps> but an increase or drop of more than 20% (compared to the dollar or whatever) within a few days will make bitcoins difficult to use for legitimate business
344 2011-04-26 10:08:07 <TD> eps: yes indeed but there's not much anyone can do about that except get more real traders and merchants into the economy
345 2011-04-26 10:08:26 <TD> right now there's lots of speculation and the economy is very small, so the price is driven heavily by press attention
346 2011-04-26 10:10:10 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 92000 1
347 2011-04-26 10:10:11 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
348 2011-04-26 10:10:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 92000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 46 seconds
349 2011-04-26 10:10:14 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 92000 1
350 2011-04-26 10:10:16 <eps> yeah, it is a tricky problem  to solve
351 2011-04-26 10:13:37 <anarchyx> eps: more volatility will drive in more speculators and increase the amount of traders, market will regulate itself
352 2011-04-26 10:17:14 <TD> hmm, faucet is getting low
353 2011-04-26 10:24:02 <mele> shares are distributed when a block is solved in a pool?
354 2011-04-26 10:24:41 <BlueMatt> mele: depends on the pool, but yes
355 2011-04-26 10:25:01 <mele> BlueMat: ok
356 2011-04-26 10:25:31 <sipa> mele: you can use [Tab] to complete the nickname of someobe
357 2011-04-26 10:25:36 <sipa> someone
358 2011-04-26 10:38:13 <BurtyB> just plugged another 5870 in - my UPS isn't too happy lol
359 2011-04-26 11:07:32 <xelister> BurtyB: does you UPS actually hold computer with even one 5980
360 2011-04-26 11:07:34 <xelister> 5870
361 2011-04-26 12:14:46 <luke-jr> hmm, another bubble?
362 2011-04-26 12:16:07 <ArtForz> looks more like a single 2kbtc buy
363 2011-04-26 12:16:38 <Kiba> Tyler Cowen is very critical of bitcoin
364 2011-04-26 12:16:44 <ArtForz> err, 4kbtc
365 2011-04-26 12:16:57 <Kiba> hopefully we will succeed and make him look like a fool
366 2011-04-26 12:16:59 <ArtForz> Tyler who?
367 2011-04-26 12:17:01 <Kiba> sweet revenge
368 2011-04-26 12:17:17 <Kiba> dude at Marginal Revolution
369 2011-04-26 12:17:45 <ArtForz> still not ringing a bell.. *crawls back under rock*
370 2011-04-26 12:19:18 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0b4cd41b6a5f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool-0.3: latest git eclass is picky http://tinyurl.com/3vlq8zv
371 2011-04-26 12:21:29 <BurtyB> xelister yeah, it was doing 2xserver (one with 2x5870) a desktop/2xrouter/switch
372 2011-04-26 12:29:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r051b33f5c79d gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool-0.3: apparently I must not have tested :/ http://tinyurl.com/656hpon
373 2011-04-26 12:29:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r844d965662df gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild pushpool-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: missing DEPEND: dev-libs/libmemcached http://tinyurl.com/6zge35c
374 2011-04-26 12:45:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: cpu required?
375 2011-04-26 12:45:39 <sipa> i'll benchmark it soon, but i don't expect it to be much more expensive (per key tried) than verification
376 2011-04-26 12:46:33 <BlueMatt> sipa: so it would require x2 cpu time (assuming which key works is specified) to verify a tx?
377 2011-04-26 12:47:28 <sipa> no, you don't need to verify it anymore
378 2011-04-26 12:47:37 <BlueMatt> ah, ok cool then
379 2011-04-26 12:47:45 <sipa> if you recover a key, and its hash matches an address, it is certainly a valid signature
380 2011-04-26 12:47:57 <BlueMatt> ah, good point that makes sense
381 2011-04-26 12:48:33 <BlueMatt> is it possible to specify which key out of the options will be the correct one (ie only one key recovery required)
382 2011-04-26 12:49:05 <BlueMatt> I havent really been paying attention
383 2011-04-26 12:49:30 <sipa> yes
384 2011-04-26 12:49:37 <sipa> there are at most 4 possible keys
385 2011-04-26 12:49:57 <sipa> and you can easily specify which one to try
386 2011-04-26 12:50:12 <BlueMatt> Id assume we dont want to try any keys other than the one specified
387 2011-04-26 12:50:17 <sipa> exactly
388 2011-04-26 12:50:18 <BlueMatt> there would be no use
389 2011-04-26 12:51:36 <sipa> so i will propose to use a bitcoin-specific 65-byte signature encoding, which contains exactly the same information as the 72-byte signature + 65-byte pubkey now
390 2011-04-26 12:52:58 <BlueMatt> sipa: cool, Im assuming we dont have to kill backward compatibility if we use reserved opcodes?
391 2011-04-26 12:53:06 <BlueMatt> ie old nodes just reject all txes
392 2011-04-26 12:54:02 <sipa> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6430.msg94738#msg94738
393 2011-04-26 12:54:27 <sipa> that proposal means we switch (at some point in the past) to new scriptPubKeys which require new scriptSigs
394 2011-04-26 12:54:43 <sipa> *future
395 2011-04-26 12:56:07 <sipa> i believe it would be possible (using yet another opcode...) to use a "compact signature" for an old scriptPubKey as well
396 2011-04-26 12:57:56 <BlueMatt> is the destination address specified not a hash of the current scriptPubKey...
397 2011-04-26 12:58:07 <sipa> no
398 2011-04-26 12:58:18 <sipa> an address is a hash of a pubkey
399 2011-04-26 12:58:38 <BlueMatt> sorry, yes of course
400 2011-04-26 12:58:48 <sipa> the scriptPubKey (which typically contains a pubkey or an address) is the thing in a txout which determines who is allowed to spend
401 2011-04-26 12:59:14 <sipa> and scriptSig (which typically contains a signature and sometimes a pubkey) is the thing in a txin which proves you had the right to spend
402 2011-04-26 13:00:21 <BlueMatt> if we change the format of scriptPubKeys, Im assuming we sign with old format to spend old coins and require new format for spends thereafter?
403 2011-04-26 13:00:55 <sipa> there are two ways, i believe
404 2011-04-26 13:01:52 <sipa> either add a new opcode to be used in scriptPubKey, which only requires a sig + 2-bit code in scriptSig - so old coins will be signed using the old way, and new coins with the new way
405 2011-04-26 13:02:28 <sipa> or add a compatibility opcode to be used in scriptSig, which takes a scriptSig + 2-bit code, and converts it into a scriptSig + pubkey, to be fed to an old scriptPubKey
406 2011-04-26 13:05:24 <BlueMatt> Either way old nodes will flat out reject all new signs
407 2011-04-26 13:05:45 <BlueMatt> I prefer #1 as IMHO its nicer
408 2011-04-26 13:08:42 <BlueMatt> though the results would effectively be the same either way
409 2011-04-26 13:09:49 <sipa> #1 allows simpler scriptPubKeys as well, but the effect is very small
410 2011-04-26 13:09:57 <sipa> #2 allows small sigs also for old coins
411 2011-04-26 13:10:16 <jgarzik> Has bitcoin ever introduced a new feature that made it impossible for older clients to verify a block?
412 2011-04-26 13:10:20 <BlueMatt> I dont see sigs for old coins to be really any advantage
413 2011-04-26 13:10:48 <jgarzik> sendmany, for example, could be verified by ancient clients, if a sendmany TX makes it into a block.
414 2011-04-26 13:11:19 <BlueMatt> IMHO the feature should be added, but the clients shouldnt sign that way by default until it is strictly necessary due to network load
415 2011-04-26 13:11:50 <BlueMatt> we cant never add new opcodes just because it breaks compatibility
416 2011-04-26 13:11:56 <BlueMatt> though we shouldnt use them by default
417 2011-04-26 13:12:13 <ISA_> Hello
418 2011-04-26 13:14:18 <BlueMatt> ISA_: hi
419 2011-04-26 13:16:01 <sipa> for a 2-txin-2-txout transaction, it would allow a more than 33% reduction in tx size
420 2011-04-26 13:16:42 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
421 2011-04-26 13:16:42 <sipa> 438 -> 290 bytes
422 2011-04-26 13:16:53 <BlueMatt> hi
423 2011-04-26 13:17:02 <sipa> somehow that seems worth it to me, but obviously not immediately
424 2011-04-26 13:17:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: I agree, but IMHO it shouldnt be turned on by default for quite a while
425 2011-04-26 13:17:59 <sipa> something like "if (nBestheight > 200000) fUseCompactSigs=true;" :)
426 2011-04-26 13:18:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: I disagree
427 2011-04-26 13:18:16 <devrandom> so nightlies are built in a VM...  I wonder if there's a solution to that
428 2011-04-26 13:18:18 <prax_> anyone got a suggestion for domain name registrar?
429 2011-04-26 13:18:23 <BlueMatt> It should be off until absolutely required
430 2011-04-26 13:19:04 <devrandom> what kind of VM are you using?
431 2011-04-26 13:19:05 <BlueMatt> devrandom: I dont know, depends on the virtualization method
432 2011-04-26 13:19:22 <BlueMatt> devrandom: sadly, the proc its on doesnt support hardward virt so its a vmware server
433 2011-04-26 13:19:33 <BlueMatt> kvm wont run there
434 2011-04-26 13:19:46 <BlueMatt> virtualbox might but vmware definitely wont
435 2011-04-26 13:20:21 <devrandom> I wonder if non-kvm qemu would run and if it would be too slow...
436 2011-04-26 13:20:32 <BlueMatt> does qemu do soft virt?
437 2011-04-26 13:21:17 <BlueMatt> looks light it might
438 2011-04-26 13:21:30 <devrandom> yeah
439 2011-04-26 13:21:49 <BlueMatt> still dont know if it will boot inside of vmware, but I suppose its worth a shot
440 2011-04-26 13:24:13 <devrandom> http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20589&start=15
441 2011-04-26 13:24:25 <devrandom> someone got qemu running under vbox
442 2011-04-26 13:24:57 <BlueMatt> worth a shot then
443 2011-04-26 13:25:27 <BurtyB> prax_ depending on tld I do registrations
444 2011-04-26 13:25:35 <BlueMatt> probably still needlessly slow...
445 2011-04-26 13:25:45 <BlueMatt> IMHO its not really worth signing nightlies
446 2011-04-26 13:26:10 <prax_> hmm well why should I use you? (probably just a .com for now though)
447 2011-04-26 13:26:49 <BlueMatt> devrandom: signing is important for distributions, but for nightlies...well, its not that important really
448 2011-04-26 13:27:16 <devrandom> it would simplify your life if you didn't have to do the releases differently
449 2011-04-26 13:27:25 <BurtyB> prax_ icann accredited registrar (not a reseller) for one :)
450 2011-04-26 13:28:02 <BlueMatt> devrandom: true, but Ive already got the nigtlies set up (really not hard) and building releases isnt bad with your scripts
451 2011-04-26 13:28:14 <devrandom> ok
452 2011-04-26 13:28:20 <prax_> was reading some stuff about how godaddy is a pain to transfer
453 2011-04-26 13:28:26 <prax_> you got info on a website?
454 2011-04-26 13:28:37 <prax_> I'm looking for private registration too
455 2011-04-26 13:28:38 <BlueMatt> devrandom: In any case, I think this kind of trust is important for releases
456 2011-04-26 13:29:11 <devrandom> BlueMatt - so sounds like the two of us can build releases and that's all we need?  gavinandresen?
457 2011-04-26 13:29:26 <B0g4r7> godaddy huh.
458 2011-04-26 13:29:28 <BurtyB> prax_ http://www.othellonames.net/ no restrictions (other than the tld operators) on transfering out you can just request an EPP via the control panel
459 2011-04-26 13:29:29 <BlueMatt> devrandom: it would be nice to get as many as possible
460 2011-04-26 13:29:32 <gavinandresen> Y'all going to take over building releases?  Wahoo!
461 2011-04-26 13:29:35 <BlueMatt> devrandom: jgarzik, gavinandresen etc
462 2011-04-26 13:29:39 <B0g4r7> I've used them for my domains for many yrs now.
463 2011-04-26 13:29:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I would, but Id rather let people trust you/jgarzik
464 2011-04-26 13:29:59 <B0g4r7> Never had any real problems, other than a kind of "spammy feel" from them.
465 2011-04-26 13:30:30 <devrandom> I think gavin builds on ec2?
466 2011-04-26 13:30:39 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: mac building probably not possible though (unless you know of a xcompiler from linux-> mac)
467 2011-04-26 13:30:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: yes he does
468 2011-04-26 13:30:59 <gavinandresen> yup.
469 2011-04-26 13:31:06 <devrandom> I don't yet have a solution for that, although I can envision using the API
470 2011-04-26 13:31:43 <prax_> BurtyB I'll check it out and maybe talk to you later, still confused what I am really doing too =)
471 2011-04-26 13:32:05 <BlueMatt> devrandom: I suppose we can go build 0.3.21 now and get some sigs out if gavin wants to distribute that instead
472 2011-04-26 13:32:09 <BlueMatt> get the system started now
473 2011-04-26 13:32:14 <BlueMatt> its a good opportunity
474 2011-04-26 13:32:25 <BurtyB> prax_ np, let me know if you have any Qs
475 2011-04-26 13:32:30 <gavinandresen> How about for the 0.4 release we plan on having the builds done using gitian?  I can get a cheap linux netbook to run VMs to build...
476 2011-04-26 13:32:48 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: its up to you
477 2011-04-26 13:32:58 <BlueMatt> then the next version is 0.4?
478 2011-04-26 13:33:16 <gavinandresen> I'd like the next version to be 0.4 with jgarzik's encrypt-private-keys incorporated
479 2011-04-26 13:33:26 <BlueMatt> and autotools, Im assuming?
480 2011-04-26 13:33:30 <gavinandresen> (next version after stamping 0.3.21 final today or tomorrow)
481 2011-04-26 13:33:31 <CrazyThinker> Is the From and Message data encrypted?
482 2011-04-26 13:33:46 <gavinandresen> Yeah, and autotools.  And some source re-org, I think
483 2011-04-26 13:33:53 <BlueMatt> nice
484 2011-04-26 13:33:58 <jgarzik> jaromil's autotools work is quickly overtaking my branch, as the preferred autotools junk station
485 2011-04-26 13:34:01 <jgarzik> (with my blessing)
486 2011-04-26 13:34:03 <BlueMatt> would like to see bitcoin: uris as well
487 2011-04-26 13:34:09 <jgarzik> I like it when people do my work for me :)
488 2011-04-26 13:34:26 <BlueMatt> and his should support xcompile soon as well :)
489 2011-04-26 13:34:36 <sipa> CrazyThinker: bitcoin does not use any encryption at all
490 2011-04-26 13:34:55 <CrazyThinker> sipa, so the messages are visible to everyone on the network?
491 2011-04-26 13:34:55 <sipa> all transactions are public, as everyone must be able to verify their integrity
492 2011-04-26 13:34:56 <devrandom> we can always re-release the 0.3.21 binary if we are impatient
493 2011-04-26 13:35:17 <devrandom> hm... there's this: http://www.phenona.com/blog/using-lxc-linux-containers-in-amazon-ec2/
494 2011-04-26 13:35:17 <sipa> CrazyThinker: that does however not mean that everyone knows which addresses belong to who
495 2011-04-26 13:35:34 <BlueMatt> devrandom: We can release it of course, and probably should
496 2011-04-26 13:35:34 <gavinandresen> What exactly does the gitian build/verify?  Just the executables, yes?
497 2011-04-26 13:35:37 <CrazyThinker> yeah, but are those visible to everyone?
498 2011-04-26 13:35:38 <sipa> jgarzik: seen my comment in your encrypt-private-keys thread?
499 2011-04-26 13:35:45 <sipa> some time ago already
500 2011-04-26 13:35:49 <BlueMatt> devrandom: that way we can get it out there and tested
501 2011-04-26 13:35:54 <BlueMatt> devrandom: until it actually gets used
502 2011-04-26 13:36:24 <jgarzik> sipa: I was hoping someone would answer your question :)   http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4983.msg85445#msg85445
503 2011-04-26 13:36:56 <jgarzik> sipa: the main remaining issue seems to be IV
504 2011-04-26 13:36:58 <devrandom> gavinandresen - it can have arbitrary output.  Right now I think I copy the source to the output and include that in the signature.
505 2011-04-26 13:37:30 <noagendamarket> http://twitter.com/#!/MemoryDealers    is now accepting bitcoins
506 2011-04-26 13:37:31 <sipa> CrazyThinker: there is no identity info in the bitcoin network
507 2011-04-26 13:37:35 <devrandom> BlueMatt - ok
508 2011-04-26 13:38:01 <jgarzik> anyway...
509 2011-04-26 13:38:11 <sipa> CrazyThinker: and bitcoin continuously creates new addresses to send change transactions to, in order to hide which is change and which is payment
510 2011-04-26 13:38:23 <jaromil> jgarzik: thanks. i needed autotools myself. BTW i need rebase that branch and provide some documentation for mingw32 compiling
511 2011-04-26 13:38:35 <CrazyThinker> sipa but if I mention the email address and other details in the message sent using Bitcoin client, can people read this information?
512 2011-04-26 13:38:48 <sipa> there is no message
513 2011-04-26 13:38:52 <TD> good day everyone
514 2011-04-26 13:39:01 <BlueMatt> TD: good day
515 2011-04-26 13:39:06 <gavinandresen> Wow, the gang's all here....
516 2011-04-26 13:39:12 <TD> gavinandresen: could you maybe include the "if (!fTestNet)" conditions on the tx replacement and other disabled features before 0.3.21?
517 2011-04-26 13:39:22 <TD> so everything that is currently disabled for safety can be played with on the testnet ....
518 2011-04-26 13:39:26 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: jgarzik just left. he isn't part of the gang? :P
519 2011-04-26 13:39:32 <CrazyThinker> sipa, In the bitcoin client it shows message and From text boxes
520 2011-04-26 13:39:44 <sipa> CrazyThinker: that's only for the outdated send-to-IP feature
521 2011-04-26 13:39:50 <gavinandresen> TD: I'd rather not-- I want to get 0.3.21 out the door
522 2011-04-26 13:39:52 <sipa> CrazyThinker: the bitcoin network doesn't use them
523 2011-04-26 13:39:55 <TD> fair enough
524 2011-04-26 13:40:08 <CrazyThinker> sipa, okay
525 2011-04-26 13:40:20 <B0g4r7> TD: Verying behavior based on whether or not "test mode" is being used sounds like a bad idea to me.
526 2011-04-26 13:40:30 <gavinandresen> TD: It'll be top of the list for 0.4 (assuming somebody submits a PULL or I remember)
527 2011-04-26 13:40:31 <devrandom> jgarzik - are you interested in joining the gitian builders?
528 2011-04-26 13:40:37 <TD> great.
529 2011-04-26 13:40:45 <B0g4r7> varying
530 2011-04-26 13:40:45 <luke-jr> &
531 2011-04-26 13:40:48 <gavinandresen> jgarzik just left
532 2011-04-26 13:40:50 <BlueMatt> devrandom: hes off
533 2011-04-26 13:40:56 <sipa> TD: by the way, i have an openssl-based ecdsa key recovery working
534 2011-04-26 13:41:00 <TD> B0g4r7: it's already done. they are separate networks
535 2011-04-26 13:41:02 <TD> sipa: nice!
536 2011-04-26 13:41:06 <devrandom> ok
537 2011-04-26 13:41:20 <B0g4r7> mmm...well...yes.
538 2011-04-26 13:41:21 <gavinandresen> sipa:  but... why?
539 2011-04-26 13:41:30 <gavinandresen> (bottleneck is already CPU, why make it worse?)
540 2011-04-26 13:41:49 <gavinandresen> ("because I can" is a valid response, by the way)
541 2011-04-26 13:41:58 <sipa> gavinandresen: i haven't benchmarked it, but key recovery shouldn't be slower than verification, actually
542 2011-04-26 13:42:01 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: probably no worse for cpu
543 2011-04-26 13:42:09 <sipa> obviously, i still need to do benchmarks
544 2011-04-26 13:42:16 <gavinandresen> But you have to recover the CPU AND THEN STILL check the signature, right?
545 2011-04-26 13:42:21 <sipa> no
546 2011-04-26 13:42:24 <gavinandresen> (err, recover the key)
547 2011-04-26 13:42:30 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: theoretically you dont have to check the sig
548 2011-04-26 13:42:41 <sipa> if you recover a key, and that key's hash matches your address, you're done
549 2011-04-26 13:42:58 <sipa> the algorithm will only produce keys for which that sig is a valid sig
550 2011-04-26 13:43:40 <TD> bottleneck is CPU today. in future it might move to become the RAM required to store the block chain (assuming that big miners have many cores)
551 2011-04-26 13:43:50 <TD> so shrinking the block chain is still useful. but the change isn't backwards compatible.
552 2011-04-26 13:44:15 <TD> if it's included today, perhaps in a year or two years if miners start complaining that the storage overheads are getting too heavy, it could be activated
553 2011-04-26 13:44:19 <TD> as by that point hopefully everyone is upgraded
554 2011-04-26 13:44:27 <TD> ie - kept around in our back pocket in case it's needed
555 2011-04-26 13:44:35 <sipa> for a typical 2-txin-to-2-txout transaction, the size (of the whole tx) would go from 438 to 290 bytes
556 2011-04-26 13:44:39 <BlueMatt> TD: that is what I was saying
557 2011-04-26 13:44:50 <TD> ah, sorry for duplicating :) i wasn't watching irc before
558 2011-04-26 13:44:51 <BlueMatt> keep it off until strictly necessary
559 2011-04-26 13:45:03 <BlueMatt> TD: never a problem, I do that all the time
560 2011-04-26 13:45:03 <sipa> it does put stronger constraints on alternative implementations
561 2011-04-26 13:45:33 <luke-jr> ;;later tell jgarzik is there a reason pushpool uses sbin instead of bin?
562 2011-04-26 13:45:34 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
563 2011-04-26 13:45:39 <TD> sipa: how so?
564 2011-04-26 13:45:55 <sipa> TD: as they would also need to implement the additional opcodes, obviousl
565 2011-04-26 13:46:01 <TD> afaik the only alternative implementation today that tries to verify txns is bitdollar and it doesn't even run scripts
566 2011-04-26 13:46:10 <BlueMatt> just more stuff to implement
567 2011-04-26 13:46:21 <BlueMatt> assuming you want to verify txes yourself
568 2011-04-26 13:46:21 <TD> right, but as no such implementation exists today, it's not a big deal to give them even more work :-)
569 2011-04-26 13:46:25 <BlueMatt> true
570 2011-04-26 13:46:27 <gavinandresen> sipa:  ok.  carry on then.  But a factor of less-than-two storage savings... at the cost of an incompatible addition to Script.cpp ... I'm not enthused.
571 2011-04-26 13:46:55 <TD> actually i'm wrong ... i'd have to support it too
572 2011-04-26 13:47:04 <luke-jr> TD: but nothing could stop a rogue miner from using it in blocks early, and forking the chain
573 2011-04-26 13:47:30 <devrandom> the miner would not get their blocks accepted, wasting gpus
574 2011-04-26 13:47:30 <sipa> a rogue miner who starts to use it before the official "introduction time", would just be ignored by others
575 2011-04-26 13:47:32 <TD> as even thin clients need to understand how to extract the relevant addresses/pubkeys from scripts
576 2011-04-26 13:47:35 <TD> even though they don't run them
577 2011-04-26 13:47:38 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: could be disabled till block x
578 2011-04-26 13:47:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that would do it I guess
579 2011-04-26 13:48:36 <devrandom> I like the enable after block x solution for upgrades... maybe should also have an alert system for "your version is considered obsolete by n peers"
580 2011-04-26 13:48:53 <luke-jr> devrandom: there is such an alert system already
581 2011-04-26 13:49:03 <luke-jr> devrandom: except it's monarchial
582 2011-04-26 13:49:11 <BlueMatt> Kiba: potato chip seems kinda random there, just one?
583 2011-04-26 13:49:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rdf81e33c4c2f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild pushpool-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: oh yeah, I forgot about econf... http://tinyurl.com/42t3axq
584 2011-04-26 13:49:21 <devrandom> luke-jr - the satoshi alert?
585 2011-04-26 13:49:24 <luke-jr> yeah
586 2011-04-26 13:49:36 <Kiba> BlueMatt: naw, vingear and salt chips, my favorite
587 2011-04-26 13:50:03 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: what would you think of modifying the alert to relay signed-by-other-key messages on the same terms as a free txn?
588 2011-04-26 13:50:06 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: can we get you to add a new alert key for yourself...or get satoshi to give you his?
589 2011-04-26 13:50:06 <devrandom> I'm thinking about something that encourages people to upgrade if their version is obsolete.  based on security upgrades or upcoming breaking changes
590 2011-04-26 13:50:22 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: so, for example, other clients can broadcast alerts only to their client users
591 2011-04-26 13:51:35 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  interesting idea
592 2011-04-26 13:52:14 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: interesting you should mention that, Satoshi sent me the alert key this morning.
593 2011-04-26 13:52:24 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ah, good then
594 2011-04-26 13:52:39 <Kiba> will satoshi come back, gavinandresen?
595 2011-04-26 13:52:58 <BlueMatt> Kiba: last I heard, he had "moved on to other projects"
596 2011-04-26 13:53:09 <BlueMatt> and that bitcoin is "in good hands"
597 2011-04-26 13:53:09 <Kiba> totally inaccurate rumor methink
598 2011-04-26 13:53:26 <BlueMatt> Kiba: that is what TD told me satoshi said in an email
599 2011-04-26 13:53:28 <Kiba> gavinandresen: so...what's official statement
600 2011-04-26 13:53:31 <gavinandresen> Kiba:  I don't know, he says he's moving on to other things, so expect him to fade away even more.
601 2011-04-26 13:53:46 <eps> is that possible?
602 2011-04-26 13:53:48 <Kiba> so we will never knows the true identity of the project?
603 2011-04-26 13:53:51 <Kiba> err
604 2011-04-26 13:53:51 <noagendamarket> :(
605 2011-04-26 13:53:53 <Kiba> founder
606 2011-04-26 13:53:56 <TD> yeah, i asked him that and he gave me the answer BlueMatt said. he's gone for good, but still answers questions from time to time
607 2011-04-26 13:54:12 <Kiba> so. we will
608 2011-04-26 13:54:21 <TD> some of them at least .... if they don't involve him doing much work :-) i asked him if he'd be willing to review a wiki page and he ignored that part of my mail, heh
609 2011-04-26 13:54:30 <Kiba> never know how the true origin of bitcoin..how its inventor come up with a system
610 2011-04-26 13:54:51 <eps> well the cryptocurrency is not a new idea
611 2011-04-26 13:54:53 <BlueMatt> Kiba: if it catches on, someone will do the research
612 2011-04-26 13:55:13 <eps> but the execution of bitcoin is very impressive
613 2011-04-26 13:55:16 <Kiba> satoshi is a true hero in any case
614 2011-04-26 13:55:22 <BlueMatt> eps: no, but satoshi was one of the first to come up with the idea of proof of work
615 2011-04-26 13:55:30 <Kiba> no
616 2011-04-26 13:55:36 <BlueMatt> he wasnt the first
617 2011-04-26 13:55:37 <Kiba> he just integrate other people's idea
618 2011-04-26 13:55:42 <BlueMatt> but the first to implement it very well afaik
619 2011-04-26 13:55:55 <xxxxxxx> BlueMatt, implementing proof of work is ez as shit
620 2011-04-26 13:55:56 <eps> i always say execution beats ideas
621 2011-04-26 13:55:58 <TD> using partial pre-images of zero as a proof of work is from Dr Adam Back
622 2011-04-26 13:56:00 <eps> i have ideas
623 2011-04-26 13:56:04 <TD> the block chain is (afaik) a new algorithm
624 2011-04-26 13:56:09 <BlueMatt> xxxxxxx: never said it was hard, but bitcoin is done VERY well
625 2011-04-26 13:56:10 <xxxxxxx> u might be confusing i w the block chain
626 2011-04-26 13:56:14 <eps> but i don't necessarily execute them very well
627 2011-04-26 13:56:19 <Kiba> satoshi will remain...a legend
628 2011-04-26 13:56:27 <MacRohard> bootstrapping the currency by allowing everyone to mine coins might be a satoshi inention
629 2011-04-26 13:56:33 <MacRohard> invention
630 2011-04-26 13:56:52 <Kiba> his invention is ingenuiously puting together all the ideas
631 2011-04-26 13:56:53 <DingoRabiit> BlueMatt:  Hey man you active? i lost your Repay address, Could you please send me it ina PM? It's JackRabiit.
632 2011-04-26 13:56:54 <xxxxxxx> BlueMatt, proof of work is like a few lines of code and was implemented multiple times to prevent spam a long time ago
633 2011-04-26 13:57:16 <Kiba> satoshi might come up with a new project under a different name in a few years
634 2011-04-26 13:57:43 <gavinandresen> We'll know it's him by all the pszStrings in the code....
635 2011-04-26 13:57:48 <eps> heh
636 2011-04-26 13:57:50 <Kiba> lol
637 2011-04-26 13:57:55 <BlueMatt> xxxxxxx: but using it in a currency like satoshi and his clear talent in the code...
638 2011-04-26 13:58:13 <xxxxxxx> BlueMatt, im not saying anyhting about satoshi or bitcoin, just proof o work
639 2011-04-26 13:58:19 <eps> there is nothing new under the sun
640 2011-04-26 13:58:23 <BlueMatt> Kiba: I have a feeling satoshi will come back to bitcoin under a different name if it catches on
641 2011-04-26 13:58:33 <BlueMatt> xxxxxxx: what eps said
642 2011-04-26 13:58:38 <eps> everything is built on existing ideas
643 2011-04-26 13:58:55 <TD> he may well end up as a regular user of it
644 2011-04-26 13:59:06 <BlueMatt> there hasnt been anything big new in comp sci that is big in a long time
645 2011-04-26 13:59:09 <TD> whether he takes part in the community beyond that is something we'll never know. personally i doubt it.
646 2011-04-26 13:59:25 <TD> he was working on it for nearly 4 years now. i know from past experience that after 4 years of a project you do want to move on
647 2011-04-26 13:59:31 <Kiba> we will never figure out
648 2011-04-26 13:59:35 <Kiba> and even if he told us
649 2011-04-26 13:59:39 <Kiba> we would never believe him :)
650 2011-04-26 13:59:41 <BlueMatt> TD: I agree
651 2011-04-26 14:00:21 <devrandom> Kiba - he has a pubkey, so he can prove his identity if he wants
652 2011-04-26 14:00:34 <BlueMatt> devrandom: I doubt he would
653 2011-04-26 14:00:41 <devrandom> right
654 2011-04-26 14:00:46 <BlueMatt> the mystery is great
655 2011-04-26 14:01:27 <Blitzboom> im wondering if he will ever sell his coins
656 2011-04-26 14:01:36 <Kiba> probably won't
657 2011-04-26 14:01:38 <Kiba> for a long time
658 2011-04-26 14:01:45 <Blitzboom> or wait until he can purchase whatever he wants with them
659 2011-04-26 14:02:09 <Kiba> and nobody will be able to know that he's the world's richest man  by that point
660 2011-04-26 14:02:12 <devrandom> were the genesis coins ever spent?  I guess I can easily check that in blockexplorer
661 2011-04-26 14:02:13 <BlueMatt> he wont sell the ones from the first blocks that we know are his
662 2011-04-26 14:02:47 <BlueMatt> devrandom: no, and I highly doubt satoshi will ever spend those
663 2011-04-26 14:02:50 <eps> can you choose which bitcoins to spend?
664 2011-04-26 14:02:52 <BlueMatt> if he still has the keys to them
665 2011-04-26 14:02:59 <BlueMatt> eps: not in the current client
666 2011-04-26 14:03:01 <eps> i guess you could put them in different wallets
667 2011-04-26 14:03:03 <BlueMatt> but satoshi easily could
668 2011-04-26 14:03:16 <BlueMatt> he knows the software pretty well ;)
669 2011-04-26 14:03:17 <Kiba> he can launder his money
670 2011-04-26 14:03:30 <TD> i think we should open bets on which "who is satoshi" conspiracy theory becomes the most popular
671 2011-04-26 14:03:40 <xelister> gavinandresen: yeah, how could you type all this hungarian notation :<
672 2011-04-26 14:03:42 <Blitzboom> i hope satoshi hasnt lost his keys :D
673 2011-04-26 14:03:46 <xelister> TD: I know
674 2011-04-26 14:03:49 <BlueMatt> TD: Its gavin ;)
675 2011-04-26 14:03:52 <TD> my bet is on gavin too :-)
676 2011-04-26 14:03:57 <eps> some say he started writing code at the age of 2
677 2011-04-26 14:04:01 <Kiba> lol
678 2011-04-26 14:04:12 <xelister> information on who is Satoshi (except speculation about gavinandresen)
679 2011-04-26 14:04:18 <xelister> for 10 BTC
680 2011-04-26 14:04:30 <xelister> or next higher better =)  (that can choose to get it in private)
681 2011-04-26 14:04:37 <eps> some say he is descended from adam smith
682 2011-04-26 14:04:42 <TD> haha
683 2011-04-26 14:04:51 <TD> chuck norris has nothing on satoshi
684 2011-04-26 14:04:58 <eps> all we know is... his name is satoshi, seriously, that is all we know
685 2011-04-26 14:05:08 <xelister> more exactly, I found a (fictional) charactere that closelly reassembles Satoshi AND is quite known
686 2011-04-26 14:05:12 <BlueMatt> some say he is a russian coder who has spent his entire life as an orphan in a code house (apparently they have those in russia)
687 2011-04-26 14:05:33 <xelister> guys?
688 2011-04-26 14:05:40 <xelister> *** I found a (fictional) charactere that closelly reassembles Satoshi AND is quite known ****
689 2011-04-26 14:05:50 <BlueMatt> who?
690 2011-04-26 14:05:52 <xelister> more then 1:1,000,000 close match
691 2011-04-26 14:06:03 <gavinandresen> Satoshi did suggest this morning that I (we) should try to de-emphasize the whole "mysterious founder" thing when talking publically about Bitcoin.  It plays into the "bitcoin is pirate money" meme.
692 2011-04-26 14:06:04 <xelister> it will cost to find out, starting price 10 btc =)
693 2011-04-26 14:06:24 <xelister> gavinandresen: I thought only americafags use that
694 2011-04-26 14:06:35 <TD> yeah
695 2011-04-26 14:06:38 <xelister> war on children - think about the pirates
696 2011-04-26 14:06:42 <xelister> no wait, or viceversa
697 2011-04-26 14:06:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: true, for common people its probably best not to, but it will catch on eventually (if bitcoin catches on)
698 2011-04-26 14:06:58 <TD> between the anonymous founder and the underground black markets there is enough already ....
699 2011-04-26 14:07:16 <gavinandresen> The press loves a mystery-- gives them a good hook for interesting stories.
700 2011-04-26 14:07:18 <devrandom> first used key is in block 9.... http://blockexplorer.com/a/fuWLnx1cN
701 2011-04-26 14:07:32 <eps> anyone who understands what open source is won't be bothered by satoshi's secret identity
702 2011-04-26 14:07:36 <Kiba> we know next to nothing  about satoshi
703 2011-04-26 14:07:52 <eps> but it will probably take a while for the average joe to get to that point
704 2011-04-26 14:07:55 <xelister> jp male
705 2011-04-26 14:07:59 <xelister> coder
706 2011-04-26 14:08:00 <Blitzboom> i dont want to. satoshis anonymity is a necessity to protect him
707 2011-04-26 14:08:00 <xelister> hacker
708 2011-04-26 14:08:03 <xelister> realted to economy
709 2011-04-26 14:08:06 <MacRohard> maybe bitcoin was setup by the narcocartels as a way to modernize their distribution system
710 2011-04-26 14:08:08 <xelister> related to programming
711 2011-04-26 14:08:11 <gavinandresen> He also suggested that I give you'all more credit-- and I agree, you'all deserve more credit....
712 2011-04-26 14:08:23 <xelister> will be made RICH slowly if his idea works out
713 2011-04-26 14:08:39 <Kiba> bitcoin is skynet and we are its machine
714 2011-04-26 14:08:46 <xelister> and his program has a theme of micro payments, and ~0.01 payments
715 2011-04-26 14:08:49 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the problem is there are many of us, and one of him so more credit to us still means he gets the most ;)
716 2011-04-26 14:08:56 <xelister> I FOUND A CHARACTER MATCHING ALL ABOVE CRITERIA :)
717 2011-04-26 14:09:17 <Kiba> Is it L?
718 2011-04-26 14:09:28 <xelister> no
719 2011-04-26 14:09:35 <Kiba> japanaese male. world's best detective. Half british.
720 2011-04-26 14:09:43 <Kiba> love sugar and candy
721 2011-04-26 14:09:47 <xelister> Satosi is not a fucking detective
722 2011-04-26 14:09:50 <Kiba> lol
723 2011-04-26 14:10:02 <xelister> he is a hacker if at all
724 2011-04-26 14:10:05 <BlueMatt> so...japanese sherlock?
725 2011-04-26 14:10:06 <xelister> and a bit of revolutionist
726 2011-04-26 14:10:09 <gavinandresen> no, he's a rogue british secret agent....
727 2011-04-26 14:10:14 <xelister> and I found person matching the above :)
728 2011-04-26 14:10:29 <gavinandresen> (damn it, I just did it again.... too much fun speculating....)
729 2011-04-26 14:10:36 <xelister> gavinandresen: 1000 BTC to know what the person is? Surly its change money for you ;)
730 2011-04-26 14:10:41 <Kiba> no
731 2011-04-26 14:10:52 <Blitzboom> satoshi = secret military project
732 2011-04-26 14:10:58 <Kiba> Satoshi is a half Japanese hacker girl pretending to be a male
733 2011-04-26 14:11:12 <midnightmagic> i understand what open source is, and satoshi's identity is irrelevant. what's more important is knowing more about the rationale behind the design, and that i don't see.
734 2011-04-26 14:11:18 <BlueMatt> I thought someone did an analysis of post times and determined hes probably american?
735 2011-04-26 14:11:27 <Kiba> American or British
736 2011-04-26 14:11:39 <midnightmagic> might just be in the U.S.
737 2011-04-26 14:11:40 <BlueMatt> Kiba: very, very different time zones
738 2011-04-26 14:12:20 <TD> midnightmagic: i agree, that's why i've been drilling satoshi with questions for the past months. i'm sure gavin has been doing the same
739 2011-04-26 14:12:30 <midnightmagic> does he answer you?
740 2011-04-26 14:12:33 <TD> parts of the design are definitely clearer in my mind now. it's unfortunate that nearly nothing about bitcoin was documented.
741 2011-04-26 14:12:39 <TD> beyond the paper
742 2011-04-26 14:12:43 <TD> yes he does answer me, though sometimes it takes a few days
743 2011-04-26 14:13:04 <midnightmagic> are you writing this stuff down somewhere?
744 2011-04-26 14:13:06 <devrandom> TD - what remains unclear?  economic dynamics?
745 2011-04-26 14:13:12 <TD> the emails come in at basically random times. he uses outlook express on a mac, i suspect he artificially delays responses to make it harder to figure out where he is :-)
746 2011-04-26 14:13:23 <TD> no, some details of how best to use the more obscure features
747 2011-04-26 14:13:27 <xelister> SATOSHI
748 2011-04-26 14:13:29 <xelister> USES
749 2011-04-26 14:13:32 <xelister> OUTLOOK EXPRESS
750 2011-04-26 14:13:34 <xelister> ????????????????????????????????????????
751 2011-04-26 14:13:35 <xelister> what the fuck
752 2011-04-26 14:13:36 <luke-jr> lol
753 2011-04-26 14:13:40 <xelister> what the fuck the fuck.
754 2011-04-26 14:13:43 <luke-jr> that explains a bit
755 2011-04-26 14:13:44 <xelister> only retard use OE
756 2011-04-26 14:13:45 <BlueMatt> probably faking th headers
757 2011-04-26 14:13:47 <xelister> *retards
758 2011-04-26 14:13:55 <luke-jr> OE isn't all that bad
759 2011-04-26 14:13:58 <luke-jr> but it IS Windows
760 2011-04-26 14:14:16 <luke-jr> xelister: he probably emails from a library
761 2011-04-26 14:14:21 <TD> he didn't comment when i asked him about the dynamics of mining in a fully fee based system. but i already decided it won't likely be an issue so i'm not too worried about that ;-)
762 2011-04-26 14:14:28 <devrandom> TD - curious to hear which ones?
763 2011-04-26 14:14:39 <B0g4r7> It would be good to preserve those emails.
764 2011-04-26 14:14:46 <xelister> well
765 2011-04-26 14:14:47 <TD> i've been asking mostly about things like sequence numbers, nLockTime, designing distributed contracts and some details of how he imagined thin clients to work.
766 2011-04-26 14:14:48 <gavinandresen> TD: actually, I haven't been grilling him-- I've been too busy with other stuff to dive deep into the code.  You should definitely write up what you've learned.
767 2011-04-26 14:15:01 <xelister> I know a personal that matches Satoshi as closelly as 1 in 10 milion or so =)
768 2011-04-26 14:15:07 <TD> yeah. i'm going to write up a wiki page on the distributed contracts stuff
769 2011-04-26 14:15:20 <TD> like i said, i asked if he'd review that but he ignored that part of my mail. i think he wants to stay as hands off as possible now.
770 2011-04-26 14:15:23 <Kiba> distributed contracts
771 2011-04-26 14:15:27 <TD> i'll write up what i've learned when i feel i understand it a bit better
772 2011-04-26 14:15:32 <midnightmagic> TD: can i request that you write these things down somewhere so it's not just stuck in the half-life of someone's brain? :(
773 2011-04-26 14:16:03 <midnightmagic> are you barred from posting his discussion with you?
774 2011-04-26 14:16:11 <BlueMatt> TD: does he still use the @gmx.com email?
775 2011-04-26 14:16:44 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: you think TD throws away emails, he uses gmail, wasnt that the whole point google pushed when they started gmail?
776 2011-04-26 14:16:45 <BurtyB> oi xelister I wouldnt class myself as a retarded OE user :p
777 2011-04-26 14:17:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: so Google throws away emails for you?
778 2011-04-26 14:17:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: point was they dont
779 2011-04-26 14:17:38 <BlueMatt> ie gmail was designed so that you never delete email
780 2011-04-26 14:17:39 <phantomcircuit> there's a thunderbird extension that forges headers, it defaults to outlook express
781 2011-04-26 14:17:47 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: first off, i didn't know that. secondly, it doesn't matter: if TD gets hit by a bus, all that conversation "goes away".
782 2011-04-26 14:18:20 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: it was mostly sarcastic to point out google's odd habits as a company
783 2011-04-26 14:18:42 <midnightmagic> more sarcasm, doh. of course. it's BM.
784 2011-04-26 14:18:49 <midnightmagic> my mistake
785 2011-04-26 14:18:49 <TD> i keep all the mail, obviously
786 2011-04-26 14:19:03 <BlueMatt> yep, sorry...I really need to stop doing that online
787 2011-04-26 14:19:08 <TD> and he still responds to me on the gmx.com address. but i don't know if he replies to everyone. i think justmoon contacted him asking about official approval for the video and didn't get a response.
788 2011-04-26 14:19:22 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: I don't think so, i say keep it up, it's more interesting that way
789 2011-04-26 14:19:27 <TD> my impression is he's willing to discuss the technical details, perhaps with a few people, but otherwise doesn't want to be involved with the project any more. which makes sense.
790 2011-04-26 14:20:27 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: :)
791 2011-04-26 14:20:40 <genjix> TD: do you use sync threads or async reactors?
792 2011-04-26 14:21:01 <TD> genjix: i'm lacking context. use in what ?
793 2011-04-26 14:21:05 <TD> bitcoinj? gmail?
794 2011-04-26 14:21:16 <genjix> for connections in bitcoinj
795 2011-04-26 14:21:25 <devrandom> BlueMatt - is autotools going into .21?
796 2011-04-26 14:21:25 <genjix> i think you use threads
797 2011-04-26 14:21:25 <TD> threads
798 2011-04-26 14:21:34 <genjix> kk
799 2011-04-26 14:21:41 <BlueMatt> devrandom: no, just 0.4
800 2011-04-26 14:21:43 <TD> by the way, satoshi anticipated the rise of GPU mining right from the start
801 2011-04-26 14:21:47 <devrandom> ok
802 2011-04-26 14:21:55 <genjix> ohh interesting
803 2011-04-26 14:39:16 <kile> BlueMatt: when i mine using a pooler my miner sends hashes to the pool right?
804 2011-04-26 14:40:58 <lfm> kile: not really, you send the block headers with nonces which produce the hashes wanted
805 2011-04-26 14:41:26 <kile> lfm: im trying to understand how poolers create shares
806 2011-04-26 14:41:51 <lfm> kile: well first do you understand how solo mining works?
807 2011-04-26 14:42:00 <kile> lfm: yes can you explain me a bit?
808 2011-04-26 14:42:14 <kile> lfm: i dont understand very good how blocks are passed away and stuff
809 2011-04-26 14:42:37 <kile> lfm: i think each bitcoin client gets a few blocks to solve ( calculate a valid hash for the block )
810 2011-04-26 14:42:41 <kile> thats all i understand
811 2011-04-26 14:43:11 <xelister> kile: you get milions of milions hashes to solve,  one of them will get you a 50 btc rewar
812 2011-04-26 14:43:13 <xelister> reward
813 2011-04-26 14:43:25 <lfm> ok, you're trying to find the 80 byte block headers that produce the hashes which pass the target constraints(difficulty)
814 2011-04-26 14:43:28 <xelister> depending on luck it can take weeks or months
815 2011-04-26 14:43:35 <kile> xelister: i see so my bitcoin client gets millions of millons of hashes to solve or blocks?
816 2011-04-26 14:43:54 <kile> xlister: i think my bitcoin client gets blocks and is asked to hash them, right ?
817 2011-04-26 14:44:14 <lfm> solving isnt really what your doing. it more like searching
818 2011-04-26 14:44:15 <xelister> kile: find N so that   sha256( sha256( data + N ) ) < target.      So your comkputer tries milions of N and if he finds the 'correct' one it gets a bonus
819 2011-04-26 14:44:22 <xxxxxxx> kile, you try to find a random string which hashes to a value less than X, say X is 10, which is really hard to do, when u coop mine, you send the mine pool any value that is less than 100 instead of 10,which is easier to do, and not small enough to solve a block, but small enuf to prove to them you are in fact mining
820 2011-04-26 14:45:03 <xelister> I even have a pool that mathematicall calculates
821 2011-04-26 14:45:11 <xelister> if you should be solo mining or not
822 2011-04-26 14:45:15 <xxxxxxx> so they know what % of hashpower ur contributing to the pool
823 2011-04-26 14:45:18 <xelister> it consist just few simple questions
824 2011-04-26 14:45:48 <xelister> actually it is a really easy questionnare to determin if you should solo mine
825 2011-04-26 14:46:28 <kile> xxxxxxx: why would a pool want the value that be less than 100 ? if it only needs the one thats less than 10 ?
826 2011-04-26 14:46:38 <xxxxxxx> kile, to prove to them ur actually trying to mien stuff
827 2011-04-26 14:46:40 <kile> i think the pool would discard those >10
828 2011-04-26 14:46:42 <xxxxxxx> well, to prove what speed ur hasing at
829 2011-04-26 14:46:52 <lfm> kila just so it can tell you are trying
830 2011-04-26 14:46:54 <xxxxxxx> yea it discards them, but this way it knows how much to pay who when someone finally solves a block
831 2011-04-26 14:47:11 <xxxxxxx> so if i send in hashes < 100 at a rate of 1 per hour and you send tem in at 2 per hour
832 2011-04-26 14:47:15 <xxxxxxx> ur doing twice as much work as me
833 2011-04-26 14:48:06 <xelister> well just do the questionnare
834 2011-04-26 14:48:18 <kile> xxxxxxx: what if everyone on the pool ( all the miners ) just send values that are 80<x<90 ? they will still get shares? and what if there is only one guy that sends the < 10 hash ?
835 2011-04-26 14:48:31 <lfm> the two numbers are actually more like 2^32 and (2^32 * 100000)
836 2011-04-26 14:48:34 <xxxxxxx> kile, yea they will
837 2011-04-26 14:48:54 <kile> it takes the same speed to calculate a <10 hash that to calculate a 80 hash right?
838 2011-04-26 14:48:58 <xxxxxxx> kile, and the guy that acutally solves the hash will only get whatever his contribution was, he doesnt get anyhting special for finding it
839 2011-04-26 14:57:34 <kile> xxxxxxx: and if some other pool solved the block first?
840 2011-04-26 14:57:47 <xxxxxxx> kile, thats documented somewhere
841 2011-04-26 14:57:49 <kile> what happens? the block gets orphan and all the miners wont earn anything?
842 2011-04-26 14:57:52 <xxxxxxx> u get a split chain until teh next block
843 2011-04-26 14:57:53 <xxxxxxx> or something