1 2011-05-16 00:00:06 <MagicalTux> sacarlson, I use paypal for other businesses than mtgox
  2 2011-05-16 00:00:07 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: so those MtGox changes will require what new information specifically?
  3 2011-05-16 00:00:14 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, none
  4 2011-05-16 00:00:16 <sacarlson> MagicalTux: oh ok
  5 2011-05-16 00:00:18 <phantomcircuit> fucking initial block download is so random
  6 2011-05-16 00:00:31 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, unless you wish to increase your transfer limits, for example
  7 2011-05-16 00:00:37 <jrmithdobbs> so wait, i have to be reading this wrong
  8 2011-05-16 00:00:52 <jrmithdobbs> if btc are a stored value, that means as long as they're held as btc they have no tax burden
  9 2011-05-16 00:01:12 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: what transfer limits now?
 10 2011-05-16 00:01:26 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, $1000/day
 11 2011-05-16 00:01:27 <jrmithdobbs> but on conversion to usd capital gains becomes applicable
 12 2011-05-16 00:01:28 <jrmithdobbs> yes?
 13 2011-05-16 00:01:38 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: ah, ok; so same as before
 14 2011-05-16 00:01:48 <jrmithdobbs> even if no usd was ever spent to purchase the btc in the first place?
 15 2011-05-16 00:01:50 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, yep, as much as possible we do not change existing conditions
 16 2011-05-16 00:02:02 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, i would assume so
 17 2011-05-16 00:02:08 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: if you had to, would you give public notice beforehand?
 18 2011-05-16 00:02:16 <luke-jr> (assuming you were allowed to delay the change)
 19 2011-05-16 00:02:18 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, people doing systematic daily withdraws of $1000/day may however trigger extra stuff, however
 20 2011-05-16 00:02:24 <ntosme2> are there irs reporting requirements for mtgox?
 21 2011-05-16 00:02:34 <EPiSKiNG> stupid question alert:  how do I start Phoenix in ubuntu?
 22 2011-05-16 00:02:36 <MagicalTux> ntosme2, mtgox is run by Tibanne Co. Ltd., a Japanese company
 23 2011-05-16 00:02:38 <EPiSKiNG> what do I type?
 24 2011-05-16 00:02:38 <jrmithdobbs> ntosme2: not on mtgox because they're not american
 25 2011-05-16 00:02:42 <jrmithdobbs> ntosme2: on users i think yes
 26 2011-05-16 00:03:03 <ntosme2> ok, good to know
 27 2011-05-16 00:03:16 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: we've got an appointment with a cpa and tax attorney already so hopefully we can figure it out
 28 2011-05-16 00:03:17 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: are you Satoshi?
 29 2011-05-16 00:03:26 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, lol
 30 2011-05-16 00:03:29 <MagicalTux> that's a nice joke :D
 31 2011-05-16 00:03:30 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 32 2011-05-16 00:03:45 <phantomcircuit> ^ ditto
 33 2011-05-16 00:03:49 <MagicalTux> Ok, so let me answer: I'm not Satoshi
 34 2011-05-16 00:03:58 <jrmithdobbs> that's exactly what satoshi would say!
 35 2011-05-16 00:03:58 <noagendamarket> hahah
 36 2011-05-16 00:03:59 <phantomcircuit> lies
 37 2011-05-16 00:04:00 <phantomcircuit> !
 38 2011-05-16 00:04:01 <jrmithdobbs> you must be satoshi!
 39 2011-05-16 00:04:02 <luke-jr> aww. not sure I believe you though. ;)
 40 2011-05-16 00:04:04 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
 41 2011-05-16 00:04:15 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it's also what not-Satoshi would say
 42 2011-05-16 00:04:18 <luke-jr> so it tells us nothing
 43 2011-05-16 00:04:27 <jrmithdobbs> hence: ;P
 44 2011-05-16 00:04:43 <phantomcircuit> block download is compeltely stalled
 45 2011-05-16 00:04:49 <phantomcircuit> anybody have thoughts on unstalling it?
 46 2011-05-16 00:04:57 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it's buggy beyond belief. finish the Python implementation already
 47 2011-05-16 00:05:09 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol
 48 2011-05-16 00:05:10 <luke-jr> ;)
 49 2011-05-16 00:05:36 <phantomcircuit> my peer connection manager in python is a fucking mess
 50 2011-05-16 00:05:39 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: btw, is QBitcoin dead?
 51 2011-05-16 00:05:46 <phantomcircuit> you'll be connected to 8 peers and then all of a sudden
 52 2011-05-16 00:05:57 <phantomcircuit> BAM connected to all 1.3k connectable
 53 2011-05-16 00:05:59 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, delayed due to crapload of shit to do, dev will resume once I have mtgox support staff hired and trained
 54 2011-05-16 00:06:03 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: OMG I WANT THAT
 55 2011-05-16 00:06:21 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: makes sense
 56 2011-05-16 00:07:13 <sacarlson> is QBitcoin not open source? what would stop development on it if it wasn't?
 57 2011-05-16 00:07:24 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i could live with that, where's the source? ;P
 58 2011-05-16 00:07:33 <MagicalTux> sacarlson, I have specific plans for the base, which I do not want people to comment on each time I do a freaking commit
 59 2011-05-16 00:07:59 <luke-jr> :D
 60 2011-05-16 00:08:09 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, if you cant find it you dont deserve it
 61 2011-05-16 00:08:41 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, amusingly there isn't much of a performance issue with being connected to all the peers except that you'll run out of stack space on ulimit restricted accounts
 62 2011-05-16 00:11:01 <phantomcircuit> btw the latest git doesn't build with wx 2.8.11.0
 63 2011-05-16 00:11:07 <phantomcircuit> string conversions are broken
 64 2011-05-16 00:11:44 <phantomcircuit> anybody there?
 65 2011-05-16 00:11:52 <MagicalTux> no
 66 2011-05-16 00:12:19 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it never did
 67 2011-05-16 00:12:39 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 2.9 required; I think patches welcome to backport to 2.8
 68 2011-05-16 00:12:40 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh really?
 69 2011-05-16 00:12:56 <phantomcircuit> interesting
 70 2011-05-16 00:13:26 <phantomcircuit> well that explains that
 71 2011-05-16 00:14:12 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: heh, found it ;P
 72 2011-05-16 00:14:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol 2.9 is now hardmasked on gentoo
 73 2011-05-16 00:14:39 <sacarlson> why are these wx libs so hard to find in ubuntu?  I can't even find the older ones let alone the new ones
 74 2011-05-16 00:14:40 <phantomcircuit> sigh
 75 2011-05-16 00:14:47 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: will bitcoind build without 2.9?
 76 2011-05-16 00:14:48 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ofc
 77 2011-05-16 00:14:56 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: bitcoind will build without wx ofc
 78 2011-05-16 00:15:01 <jrmithdobbs> thought so
 79 2011-05-16 00:15:03 <luke-jr> sacarlson: they suck
 80 2011-05-16 00:15:18 <sacarlson> luke-jr who ubuntu or wx libs?
 81 2011-05-16 00:15:24 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: yes
 82 2011-05-16 00:15:30 <luke-jr> sacarlson: both
 83 2011-05-16 00:15:31 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, true
 84 2011-05-16 00:15:33 <jrmithdobbs> imho
 85 2011-05-16 00:15:39 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: lol ok
 86 2011-05-16 00:16:03 <sacarlson> well I'm a fan of ubuntu so they will always have my support
 87 2011-05-16 00:16:10 <luke-jr> fanboy
 88 2011-05-16 00:16:21 <jrmithdobbs> ubuntu took the concept of debian and summarily ruined it
 89 2011-05-16 00:16:47 <jrmithdobbs> if their security idiots fuck my shit up by convincing debian maintainers to pull their retarded un-thought-out patches I may go on a fucking killing spree.
 90 2011-05-16 00:16:55 <jrmithdobbs> one more time
 91 2011-05-16 00:17:20 <jrmithdobbs> ssh rand issue was ubuntu's fault, writing new code to re-implement (WITH NO WAY TO TURN OFF) env_reset was ubunt's fault
 92 2011-05-16 00:17:24 <jrmithdobbs> etc
 93 2011-05-16 00:17:24 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: ok I have to admit maybe people tend to upgrade to quickly with ubuntu to break things but upgrade is an option not a rule
 94 2011-05-16 00:17:42 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: not when the asshats do as described above.
 95 2011-05-16 00:18:09 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: i don't use ubuntu. I hate them for getting their retardedness committed to debian
 96 2011-05-16 00:18:32 <jrmithdobbs> for instance the insserv init switch is fucking ubuntu's retardedness effecting me.
 97 2011-05-16 00:18:39 <jrmithdobbs> affecting
 98 2011-05-16 00:20:20 <luke-jr> did Debian adopt their retarded Upstart?
 99 2011-05-16 00:20:34 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: debian was my first it was just a bit behind the times and with the growing numbers in ubuntu they had more support.  I'm not very security minded
100 2011-05-16 00:20:50 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: no they just accept patches from them
101 2011-05-16 00:21:03 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: they've become MUCH more leary of it since the above mentioned incidents.
102 2011-05-16 00:21:13 <jrmithdobbs> but the maintainers on some packages overlap
103 2011-05-16 00:21:29 <EPiSKiNG> anyone had luck running a 6 series and a 5 series card in the same systrem?
104 2011-05-16 00:21:35 <luke-jr> Upstart is the worst thing ever
105 2011-05-16 00:21:46 <EPiSKiNG> i'm trying to get a 6990 and a 5970 working in Windows 7, not sure what the best way to attack it is
106 2011-05-16 00:21:47 <luke-jr> EPiSKiNG: I have no doubt I could do it.
107 2011-05-16 00:21:53 <luke-jr> LOL Windows
108 2011-05-16 00:22:09 <Apocal> Why does running bitcoin on my ubuntu 11.04 system result in no GUI? Or am I missing something?
109 2011-05-16 00:22:13 <jgarzik> luke-jr: indeed
110 2011-05-16 00:22:38 <sacarlson> Apocal: lack of WX libs I think
111 2011-05-16 00:22:40 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: i want my production stuff stable. I am fine with backporting/packaging stuff that is not in stable.
112 2011-05-16 00:22:58 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: if you're not, then testing/sid is for you. Ubuntu literally fills a non-existant use
113 2011-05-16 00:23:01 <jrmithdobbs> case
114 2011-05-16 00:23:22 <Apocal> sacarlson: Hmm, ldd on the bitcoin binary shows no missing libs, and the debug output is... unhelpful
115 2011-05-16 00:23:31 <jrmithdobbs> and their retarded focus on the desktop annoys the ever loving shit out of me
116 2011-05-16 00:23:37 <luke-jr> Apocal: Ubuntu is retarded.
117 2011-05-16 00:23:44 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: ya I'm happy with long term releases and just pull ppa when I find a need for it, I'm just to lazy to have to compile everything
118 2011-05-16 00:23:51 <Apocal> luke-jr: Agreed, nothing I can do here as it's a work pc :(
119 2011-05-16 00:23:58 <jrmithdobbs> oh your new retarded make based init makes things start faster but env vars set in rc.local are no longer applied to everything afterwards? well fuck you i'd rather start slower.
120 2011-05-16 00:24:00 <luke-jr> sacarlson: & compiling uses your CPU, not you
121 2011-05-16 00:24:13 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: (gooing back to earlier convo)   That's my information.  You note the exchange rate at time of BTC acquisition, and owe no taxes until BTC is liquidated to fiat, at which time you owe capital gains.   That's the simplified version, anyway.
122 2011-05-16 00:24:20 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it doesn't start faster than init-ng
123 2011-05-16 00:24:22 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: there are additional IRS barter regs to be aware of
124 2011-05-16 00:24:35 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: so one cannot simply exist solely on BTC, and expect no taxes
125 2011-05-16 00:24:59 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: sysv init works and i don't care about startup times (or i'd run runit/daemontools as init and do in a few use cases)
126 2011-05-16 00:25:00 <sacarlson> luke-jr so I assume you all would be gento fans?
127 2011-05-16 00:25:19 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: no i use debian. (thought that was obvious)
128 2011-05-16 00:25:28 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I care about dependencies ;)
129 2011-05-16 00:25:39 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: professionally i usually get stuck with rhel/centos or suse though
130 2011-05-16 00:26:05 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: you can do deps with runit you just have to explicitly maintain them. something else i'm ok with doing in the places i use it ;P
131 2011-05-16 00:26:08 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: that last one was pointed at luke-jr but ok debian, so debian has working wx libs then?
132 2011-05-16 00:26:15 <luke-jr> yeah, as much as I suggest Debian at people, I usually end up with CentOS/RHEL in production settings
133 2011-05-16 00:26:21 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: not 2.9. i don't run the gui
134 2011-05-16 00:26:26 <gdoteof_home> anyway to calculate/guesstimate/lookup the number of nodes on the network?
135 2011-05-16 00:26:32 <phantomcircuit> sudo mount -t tmpfs -o size=1G tmpfs ~/.bitcoin
136 2011-05-16 00:26:35 <jgarzik> sacarlson: bitcoin requires wx 2.9, which is hard to find, because it's not a stable release
137 2011-05-16 00:26:35 <phantomcircuit> BWAHAHAHAHAH
138 2011-05-16 00:26:41 <jgarzik> sacarlson: best just build from source
139 2011-05-16 00:26:46 <luke-jr> gdoteof_home: apparently phantomcircuit has a client that connects to every node
140 2011-05-16 00:27:08 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: every connectable node
141 2011-05-16 00:27:20 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, so you think ;)
142 2011-05-16 00:27:40 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: so one per X.X.0.0/255.255.0.0
143 2011-05-16 00:28:31 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no, every one is my understanding
144 2011-05-16 00:28:50 <jrmithdobbs> lets just run it and see! ha
145 2011-05-16 00:29:14 <sacarlson> gdoteof_home: you can know for sure that there are more nodes on the net the is in #bitcoin IRC
146 2011-05-16 00:29:44 <gdoteof_home> phantomcircuit: you have an estimate?
147 2011-05-16 00:29:45 <sacarlson> gdoteof_home: last I checked ran over 3000
148 2011-05-16 00:29:57 <jrmithdobbs> gdoteof_home: /list #bitcoin
149 2011-05-16 00:30:11 <jrmithdobbs> err wrong channel, ha
150 2011-05-16 00:30:21 <phantomcircuit> gdoteof_home, no i dont have timestamps
151 2011-05-16 00:30:24 <phantomcircuit> which was dumb
152 2011-05-16 00:30:38 <sacarlson> gdoteof_home: #bitcoin IRC isn't on freenode
153 2011-05-16 00:30:45 <phantomcircuit> so ~25k ip/port combos in the last month or so
154 2011-05-16 00:30:46 <phantomcircuit> but
155 2011-05-16 00:30:48 <phantomcircuit> hem
156 2011-05-16 00:30:49 <phantomcircuit> meh
157 2011-05-16 00:31:18 <gdoteof_home> sacarlson: oh.  thanks i was confused
158 2011-05-16 00:33:02 <phantomcircuit> i also have a small python script that will fill all the available connection slots on every connectable peer
159 2011-05-16 00:33:05 <phantomcircuit> it's pretty boss
160 2011-05-16 00:33:07 <phantomcircuit> lol
161 2011-05-16 00:36:30 <jrmithdobbs> if y'all haven't seen this yet
162 2011-05-16 00:36:32 <jrmithdobbs> http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html
163 2011-05-16 00:36:39 <jrmithdobbs> pretty well researched article
164 2011-05-16 00:37:19 <jrmithdobbs> except for the 'your coins cant be tracked bit'
165 2011-05-16 00:38:07 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: wow scary thought
166 2011-05-16 00:38:10 <forrestv> and the 'We are 100% certain that governments will start banning bitcoins in the next 12 to 18 months.'
167 2011-05-16 00:38:57 <sacarlson> forrestv: quick sell all your bitcoins and buy #weeds to replace them
168 2011-05-16 00:39:13 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, i've been saying that it's possible for a while, and i finally realized the only way anybody will care is if someone actually does it
169 2011-05-16 00:39:17 <phantomcircuit> so im going to do it
170 2011-05-16 00:39:20 <phantomcircuit> prepare for mayhem
171 2011-05-16 00:39:20 <sacarlson> or #beercoins coming out soon
172 2011-05-16 00:39:22 <phantomcircuit> bwahahaha
173 2011-05-16 00:39:23 <jrmithdobbs> forrestv: aye, it's a bit doom and gloom, but it's surprisingly well researched.
174 2011-05-16 00:39:40 <forrestv> yeah, i saw it earlier, not bad
175 2011-05-16 00:40:21 <forrestv> 'Bitcoin is the most dangerous open-source project ever created.' made me laugh
176 2011-05-16 00:40:31 <jrmithdobbs> i agree with that statement though
177 2011-05-16 00:40:33 <jrmithdobbs> honestly
178 2011-05-16 00:41:10 <jrmithdobbs> it has the *potential* to do to currency what the internet did to publishing.
179 2011-05-16 00:41:16 <jrmithdobbs> and that's what he's referring to
180 2011-05-16 00:41:23 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: indeed, coins are not anon
181 2011-05-16 00:41:35 <xelister> but we have the #btcfn project to make them anon
182 2011-05-16 00:41:45 <xelister> everyone is invited :)
183 2011-05-16 00:42:58 <jrmithdobbs> well the coins are anon just the entry/exit points are the issue, if we get to a point when entry/exit isn't necessary to use them then they're anon.
184 2011-05-16 00:43:10 <jrmithdobbs> you can tell where they go but not who's involved
185 2011-05-16 00:43:39 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: "Sites like 99designs, eLance and oDesk will start accepting bitcoins for payment. If they dont, they will face competition from folks who do."
186 2011-05-16 00:43:42 <luke-jr> never heard of any of those
187 2011-05-16 00:44:07 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: web design auction sites
188 2011-05-16 00:44:28 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: elance is a (shady) way to pick up cheap programming projects, etc
189 2011-05-16 00:44:40 <phantomcircuit> really cheap
190 2011-05-16 00:44:49 <phantomcircuit> you're competing with people who live on dollars a day
191 2011-05-16 00:44:55 <phantomcircuit> so
192 2011-05-16 00:44:56 <phantomcircuit> fuck that
193 2011-05-16 00:45:06 <jrmithdobbs> ya before the indians found it it was actually usable
194 2011-05-16 00:45:08 <jrmithdobbs> heh
195 2011-05-16 00:45:10 <_ape> yeah
196 2011-05-16 00:45:11 <_ape> lol
197 2011-05-16 00:45:19 <_ape> i tried it once, got undercut by some indian conglomerate of coders
198 2011-05-16 00:45:26 <_ape> who can barely type english
199 2011-05-16 00:50:01 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I would love to see this python program above
200 2011-05-16 00:50:43 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, haha i dont think so ;)
201 2011-05-16 00:51:04 <bk128> jrmithdobbs: which motherboards did you use for your miners?
202 2011-05-16 00:51:17 <bk128> they were core i3's right?
203 2011-05-16 00:51:26 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I think a method that could prevent that would be to have new chains created and distroyed randomly
204 2011-05-16 00:51:42 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, wat?
205 2011-05-16 00:52:00 <phantomcircuit> also
206 2011-05-16 00:52:03 <phantomcircuit> <3 tmpfs
207 2011-05-16 00:52:11 <jrmithdobbs> bk128: don't remember tbqh and don't have the box handy
208 2011-05-16 00:52:25 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: it's part of my concept that no one would ever know all the networks that didn't always connect
209 2011-05-16 00:52:50 <phantomcircuit> i can honestly say i havbe no idea what you're trying to say
210 2011-05-16 00:53:12 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: what he described isn't exactly hard to implement
211 2011-05-16 00:53:14 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I'm saying you can't break my new world order
212 2011-05-16 00:53:16 <jrmithdobbs> no reason to share that code
213 2011-05-16 00:53:36 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, it's harder than you'd think
214 2011-05-16 00:53:39 <bk128> jrmithdobbs: ok.  I just had a guy come to me and say he'd give me some capital to build him some miners.
215 2011-05-16 00:53:46 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: but it's not always bad to try
216 2011-05-16 00:53:52 <forrestv> ip transactions use the pubkey, right? not the address (pubkey hash)
217 2011-05-16 00:55:04 <jrmithdobbs> kitty is very upset with me
218 2011-05-16 00:55:22 <jrmithdobbs> because i took away her sauna when i created a proper hot/cold aisle setup ;P
219 2011-05-16 00:55:31 <jrmithdobbs> haha
220 2011-05-16 00:55:33 <phantomcircuit> lol
221 2011-05-16 00:55:39 <bk128> would you guys go with 69xx  cards now if you were going to build a bunch of new miners?
222 2011-05-16 00:56:09 <phantomcircuit> performance of bitcoind degrades pretty noticeably when the number of transactions increases
223 2011-05-16 00:56:20 <bitcoind> mining is overrated!
224 2011-05-16 00:56:34 <bitcoind> or overloaded!
225 2011-05-16 00:56:38 <phantomcircuit> wat