1 2011-05-31 00:25:13 <Castor_> can you guys explain to me what a long poll is?
  2 2011-05-31 00:25:31 <noagendamarket> its a guy
  3 2011-05-31 00:25:32 <Diablo-D3> the opposite of a short poll
  4 2011-05-31 00:25:51 <noagendamarket> his nickname is "long poll"
  5 2011-05-31 00:26:10 <Castor_> is he hot?
  6 2011-05-31 00:26:15 <Diablo-D3> well, he has a long poll
  7 2011-05-31 00:26:17 <Castor_> jk
  8 2011-05-31 00:30:13 <joecool> hey, having a problem, just tried sending 20BTC and it rejected saying the coins may have already been spent
  9 2011-05-31 00:30:26 <joecool> my balance is much higher than that
 10 2011-05-31 00:32:04 <Diablo-D3> maybe your block list is out of date?
 11 2011-05-31 00:32:26 <joecool> well i'll tell you what I did, about a week ago
 12 2011-05-31 00:32:27 <GarrettB> joecool: what is your block number at?
 13 2011-05-31 00:32:37 <joecool> its not in block explorer
 14 2011-05-31 00:32:48 <joecool> 127732
 15 2011-05-31 00:33:07 <joecool> i just refetched, but listen... this is what happened
 16 2011-05-31 00:33:33 <joecool> about a week ago, I sent out my last transaction, a test transaction to a friend of 0.001BTC with a fee of 0.0005BTC
 17 2011-05-31 00:33:55 <joecool> it sat in there, never going to block explorer for days
 18 2011-05-31 00:34:03 <joecool> i kept receiving generations
 19 2011-05-31 00:34:16 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,blocks
 20 2011-05-31 00:34:17 <gribble> 127733
 21 2011-05-31 00:34:19 <Diablo-D3> your client says that?
 22 2011-05-31 00:34:31 <joecool> so what I did? I backed up the wallet.dat, nuked it, and used my backup, and sure enough the transaction never came back in the list
 23 2011-05-31 00:34:47 <Diablo-D3> joecool: well it still thinks the coins were locked for a tx
 24 2011-05-31 00:35:33 <joecool> Diablo-D3: i just took that backup now of that one that didn't go out
 25 2011-05-31 00:35:39 <joecool> and restored it
 26 2011-05-31 00:37:08 <joecool> still showing 0/unconfirmed for that test transaction i sent out
 27 2011-05-31 00:37:13 <joecool> 5/25/2011
 28 2011-05-31 00:38:06 <Diablo-D3> joecool: wait for the client to send it
 29 2011-05-31 00:38:21 <Diablo-D3> like, leave it running like 24 hours
 30 2011-05-31 00:38:44 <joecool> Diablo-D3: what about the rejected 20?
 31 2011-05-31 00:39:31 <Diablo-D3> it should eventually do something vaguely correct
 32 2011-05-31 01:00:31 <jgarzik> luke-jr: not sure I understand the question
 33 2011-05-31 01:04:20 <gjs278> someone repost his question please I missed it
 34 2011-05-31 01:04:32 <Diablo-D3> he had a question?
 35 2011-05-31 01:04:54 <joecool> i didn't see it
 36 2011-05-31 01:06:45 <black888> can someone look at an error i got earlier with the phoenix miner?
 37 2011-05-31 01:08:33 <luke-jr> jgarzik: right now, if I restart pushpoold and a miner submits a valid omg-50-BTC block, it gets rejected and never claimed
 38 2011-05-31 01:08:57 <luke-jr> jgarzik: is there a reason not to submit such solutions upstream, even if they aren't in the log:
 39 2011-05-31 01:08:59 <luke-jr> ?
 40 2011-05-31 01:09:10 <Astrohacker> hey guys, does anyone know how to get a transaction to re-broadcast?
 41 2011-05-31 01:09:32 <luke-jr> Astrohacker: be patient? :p
 42 2011-05-31 01:09:34 <Astrohacker> kiba tried to sell me btc when he had no connections... upon connecting, it appears the transaction was not re-broadcasted
 43 2011-05-31 01:09:36 <jgarzik> luke-jr: you don't want to -always- do that, for all runtime.  but it can make sense to do that at startup.
 44 2011-05-31 01:09:41 <Astrohacker> luke-jr: any idea how long it takes?
 45 2011-05-31 01:09:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why not?
 46 2011-05-31 01:10:09 <luke-jr> Astrohacker: rtfs
 47 2011-05-31 01:10:21 <jgarzik> luke-jr: because once the cache is warmed, that is 100% useless work passed on to bitcoind
 48 2011-05-31 01:10:31 <jgarzik> luke-jr: which really doesn't need the extra RPC traffic
 49 2011-05-31 01:12:06 <luke-jr> jgarzik: only passed on to bitcoind if H=0 and such..
 50 2011-05-31 01:12:35 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yes, which is a crapload of guaranteed-fail traffic
 51 2011-05-31 01:12:49 <luke-jr> it is? O.o
 52 2011-05-31 01:13:02 <luke-jr> work-not-in-log should never occur except during a restart, afaik?
 53 2011-05-31 01:13:06 <luke-jr> cheaters aside
 54 2011-05-31 01:13:15 <jgarzik> luke-jr: correct
 55 2011-05-31 01:14:03 <luke-jr> so I guess I don't see the harm in doing that check last, after submitting it to bitcoind
 56 2011-05-31 01:14:50 <jgarzik> luke-jr: you don't see the cost in submitting 100,000 useless requests for every 1 useful one?
 57 2011-05-31 01:15:12 <jgarzik> heck, it might even at 100,000,000 useless requests for every 1 useful
 58 2011-05-31 01:15:19 <jgarzik> pointless load on bitcoind
 59 2011-05-31 01:15:46 <da2ce7> any pythons dev's out there???? :)
 60 2011-05-31 01:16:21 <luke-jr> jgarzik: if unknown-work should only ever occur at startup, submitting to bitcoind before JUST THAT CHECK should be no big deal&?
 61 2011-05-31 01:16:38 <luke-jr> da2ce7: for some insane reason I'm doing a lot of Python coding lately
 62 2011-05-31 01:17:15 <da2ce7> luke-jr, for some reason python is the domonant langurage in the bitcoin coding community?
 63 2011-05-31 01:17:20 <da2ce7> werid isn't it.
 64 2011-05-31 01:17:28 <luke-jr> da2ce7: I hate Python, but I'm using it for like all of eligius :/
 65 2011-05-31 01:17:59 <da2ce7> how has you pool been going anyway? got over all the scaling issues?
 66 2011-05-31 01:18:05 <luke-jr> speaking of which, my Eligius rewrite is already 500 LOC, and only maybe 1/4 complete
 67 2011-05-31 01:18:11 <jgarzik> luke-jr: not sure I follow.  I guess I'd have to see a patch, but it doesn't seem possible to check without submitting to bitcoind
 68 2011-05-31 01:18:12 <luke-jr> not all ;)
 69 2011-05-31 01:18:55 <jgarzik> luke-jr: and removing load on bitcoind is quite important at higher pool loads.  >500 Ghps being pumped through pushpoold, and that's a ton of bitcoind work if you submit every solution.
 70 2011-05-31 01:19:26 <da2ce7> jgarzik, shouldn't we be focused on optimzing bitcoind?
 71 2011-05-31 01:19:46 <jgarzik> da2ce7: <shrug>  this is what luke-jr is focused on, ask him :)
 72 2011-05-31 01:20:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: my Python work-checker went through all of Eligius's solutions in far under a day, FWIW ;)
 73 2011-05-31 01:20:37 <luke-jr> checking every single diff-1 solution at 500 GH shouldn't really be that difficult
 74 2011-05-31 01:21:16 <jgarzik> I guess I just don't see any point in -adding- changes which -increase- bitcoind load 1000x or more
 75 2011-05-31 01:21:33 <jgarzik> capable of handling it or not, that's not good engineering
 76 2011-05-31 01:21:40 <da2ce7> just change the diff to 12 for submiting probs/
 77 2011-05-31 01:21:55 <jgarzik> da2ce7: some pools are already doing that
 78 2011-05-31 01:22:00 <da2ce7> 1 is way to low anyway
 79 2011-05-31 01:22:03 <jgarzik> yep
 80 2011-05-31 01:23:51 <jgarzik> alas, with just a lone 2x5870 right now, it's all pool all the time for me
 81 2011-05-31 01:24:00 <jgarzik> I just wish somebody would mod poclbm to switch pools, if one pool goes down
 82 2011-05-31 01:28:42 <gjs278> jgarzik you can detect it system side with a bit of work
 83 2011-05-31 01:28:51 <gjs278> just check if your gpus are in state 1
 84 2011-05-31 01:28:58 <gjs278> 157mhz core clock and whatnot
 85 2011-05-31 01:29:11 <gjs278> if so, kill the poclbm running now in a screen, turn on the backup
 86 2011-05-31 01:29:19 <gjs278> no idea on how you'll get back to the primary pool though
 87 2011-05-31 01:29:35 <gjs278> maybe check with your cpu or something every so often to see if its clear
 88 2011-05-31 01:30:11 <gjs278> that's my comprehensive deepbit backup strategy
 89 2011-05-31 01:30:20 <jgarzik> gjs278: ...or just run an http proxy, which automatically switches, which is a lot easier
 90 2011-05-31 01:30:22 <Kiba> how do you pay a transaction fee with bitcoind?
 91 2011-05-31 01:30:31 <Astrohacker> luke-jr: i did what you sked
 92 2011-05-31 01:30:55 <Astrohacker> luke-jr: i looked at the source. and it does not look to me like the code will necessarily ever be rebroadcast.
 93 2011-05-31 01:30:55 <jgarzik> gjs278: but the point is to not need such ugly solutions, when it is trivial for python code to fall back
 94 2011-05-31 01:31:08 <gjs278> I think poclbm-gui already has fallback
 95 2011-05-31 01:31:11 <luke-jr> da2ce7: pushpoold can't change diff to anything else yet
 96 2011-05-31 01:31:20 <Astrohacker> luke-jr: i mean the transaction. doesn't look like the transaction will necessarily be rebroadcast
 97 2011-05-31 01:31:26 <gjs278> but he does it the hack way
 98 2011-05-31 01:31:35 <luke-jr> Kiba: it's automatic
 99 2011-05-31 01:32:03 <Astrohacker> look at the first few lines of void ResendWalletTransactions()
100 2011-05-31 01:32:11 <jgarzik> luke-jr: sure it can.  just change EASY_TARGET.  it is all centralized in one define to make the change.... easy
101 2011-05-31 01:32:17 <Astrohacker> static int64 nNextTime;
102 2011-05-31 01:32:18 <Astrohacker> if (GetTime() < nNextTime)
103 2011-05-31 01:32:30 <Astrohacker> the nNextTime variable is declared... but not defined. it's then used in the next line.
104 2011-05-31 01:32:48 <Astrohacker> thus it nNextTime is random, is it not?
105 2011-05-31 01:32:56 <Kiba> luke-jr: can I set the free?
106 2011-05-31 01:33:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: IIRC the code to actually *check* the hash isn't as easily configured?
107 2011-05-31 01:33:57 <luke-jr> Kiba: by hacking the code
108 2011-05-31 01:34:06 <Kiba> luke-jr: that's dumb
109 2011-05-31 01:34:56 <x5x> what would you guys do if you had a 0 day remote code execution vuln on the bitcoin client
110 2011-05-31 01:35:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: grep for better_hash.  the code checks for 40 bits of zeros.  if no, simply return 'true' to miner.  if yes, submit to bitcoind and return bitcoind's response.
111 2011-05-31 01:36:34 <sacarlson> x5x what's 0 day remote code ?
112 2011-05-31 01:36:58 <x5x> 0 day - remote code execution - vulnerability
113 2011-05-31 01:37:14 <x5x> 0 day means no one else knows about it
114 2011-05-31 01:37:33 <luke-jr> x5x: TBC!
115 2011-05-31 01:37:38 <x5x> tbc ?
116 2011-05-31 01:38:01 <sacarlson> x5x: what you think none us can read the source code?  only way that could happen is in the windows version
117 2011-05-31 01:38:13 <x5x> sacarlson, oh jeez
118 2011-05-31 01:38:17 <x5x> now im acutally worried
119 2011-05-31 01:38:23 <x5x> i was just asking hypothetically before
120 2011-05-31 01:39:36 <sacarlson> x5x: windows is already vunerable without anything in the bitcoin client code.  I just had a friend get a key loger installed on his and it was working on his real bank accounts
121 2011-05-31 01:40:20 <jgarzik> x5x: if you have a security problem, and you don't want to discuss it on the forums, you can email the dev team privately.  http://www.bitcoin.org/
122 2011-05-31 01:40:36 <x5x> nah  i dont im just asking
123 2011-05-31 01:40:52 <jgarzik> there's your answer :)
124 2011-05-31 01:47:40 <jgarzik> luke-jr: of course, if you wanted to add code that added a difficulty integer to the config, that would be nice
125 2011-05-31 01:48:09 <jgarzik> but diff was already built to be changed
126 2011-05-31 01:50:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: got my hands full rewriting/optimizing the core Eligius code unfortunately :<
127 2011-05-31 01:50:41 <luke-jr> jgarzik: also, if I did it, I'd make it configurable per-user )
128 2011-05-31 01:50:42 <luke-jr> ;)
129 2011-05-31 02:03:01 <mrb_> x5x: steal the wallet.dat of course ;)
130 2011-05-31 02:05:30 <x5x> mrb_, whose ?
131 2011-05-31 02:05:56 <kika_> Diablo-D3: i dont know why diablominer started to work at 50% the usual speed after been mining 1 whole day on my 6990 card
132 2011-05-31 02:08:06 <mrb_> x5x: the victim users'.
133 2011-05-31 02:08:17 <x5x> mrb_, what victim would you chose? and only 1 ?
134 2011-05-31 02:08:30 <x5x> if its a remote code exec that means u can make a worm that geos thru the entire network
135 2011-05-31 02:08:36 <mrb_> everybody. do it slowly to not get noticed.
136 2011-05-31 02:08:49 <x5x> how much woudl you take ?
137 2011-05-31 02:09:14 <mrb_> as much as possible. I think any evil attacker would do this.
138 2011-05-31 02:09:35 <mrb_> but not too much to cause a panic and recreation of the chain from scratch.
139 2011-05-31 02:10:21 <kika_> mrb_ you found a remote exec bug on bitcoin?
140 2011-05-31 02:10:41 <Diablo-D3> kika_: probably one of the cores locked up
141 2011-05-31 02:10:56 <kika_> Diablo-D3: do you have idea why the core might have locked up ?
142 2011-05-31 02:10:57 <mrb_> no.
143 2011-05-31 02:11:15 <mrb_> I am answering x5x's theoretical questions.
144 2011-05-31 02:11:16 <Diablo-D3> kika_: driver bug
145 2011-05-31 02:11:26 <mrb_> hypothetical.
146 2011-05-31 02:11:39 <kika_> Diablo-D3: weird, so maybe i need to make a script that restarts diablominer once per hour to prevent this?
147 2011-05-31 02:12:13 <Diablo-D3> kika_: are you repeatedly polling the hardware with something? like aticonfig or amdoverdrivectrl?
148 2011-05-31 02:12:28 <kika_> Diablo-D3: nopes, im just running diablominer
149 2011-05-31 02:12:33 <Diablo-D3> weird, dunno
150 2011-05-31 02:13:22 <kika_> deepbit website doesnt seem to be working weird
151 2011-05-31 02:14:08 <x5x> mrb_, yea probably the ideal would be like 1 btc from each person or osmething
152 2011-05-31 02:14:44 <x5x> i dunno i kindof just see this as inevitable
153 2011-05-31 02:15:03 <x5x> while everyone is running a client written in c++
154 2011-05-31 02:15:11 <x5x> but i hope im wrong
155 2011-05-31 02:20:06 <mrb_> this is why my main wallet is offline. always.
156 2011-05-31 02:22:29 <darbsllim> so much interesting convo going on in here
157 2011-05-31 02:22:33 <darbsllim> how ht eheck do you keep up with it lol
158 2011-05-31 02:22:39 <darbsllim> I woudlnt' get any work done all day
159 2011-05-31 02:22:41 <luke-jr> darbsllim: #yandere
160 2011-05-31 02:23:26 <kika_> which pool do you guys recommend now that deepbit isnt working fine?
161 2011-05-31 02:24:01 <gjs278> it's working for me
162 2011-05-31 02:24:15 <darbsllim> luke-jr haha thats even worse for productivty =P
163 2011-05-31 02:24:22 <luke-jr> ZS
164 2011-05-31 02:24:24 <luke-jr> XD*
165 2011-05-31 02:24:28 <luke-jr> kika_: #Eligius
166 2011-05-31 02:24:33 <kika_> oh true it works now
167 2011-05-31 02:24:46 <kika_> Eligius waits until a block is solved to pay ?
168 2011-05-31 02:24:56 <kika_> or it even pays you if the block isnt solved like deepbit?
169 2011-05-31 02:25:02 <kika_> ill earn more than deepbit using eligious?
170 2011-05-31 02:25:06 <x5x> mrb_, yea but if this happened theres a chance it would completley destory the value of all btc
171 2011-05-31 02:26:08 <mrb_> well that's the best one can do.
172 2011-05-31 02:26:23 <x5x> yea i pretty much agree
173 2011-05-31 02:26:32 <x5x> i just hope that someday the official bitcoin client gets switcehd to java
174 2011-05-31 02:27:40 <mrb_> a big risk too is mtgox sufferring catastrophic data loss or corruption
175 2011-05-31 02:28:01 <x5x> mrb_, yea forsure altho thats an easier solution
176 2011-05-31 02:28:02 <mrb_> causing many to lose what they have there (BTC and USD)
177 2011-05-31 02:28:06 <x5x> just have more exchanges
178 2011-05-31 02:29:00 <mrb_> that's why I never keep more than a few hundreds BTC there
179 2011-05-31 02:29:45 <x5x> yea
180 2011-05-31 02:31:25 <luke-jr> kika_: yes
181 2011-05-31 02:31:36 <GarrettB> mrb_: how many btc do you have?
182 2011-05-31 02:31:55 <darbsllim> luke-jr how can you afford to pay out even if the block isnt' solved?
183 2011-05-31 02:32:09 <luke-jr> darbsllim: I don't.
184 2011-05-31 02:32:17 <GarrettB> I have to wonder when you talk about keeping 'only
185 2011-05-31 02:32:21 <GarrettB> a few hunderd'
186 2011-05-31 02:33:31 <x5x> mrb's a baller
187 2011-05-31 02:34:24 <darbsllim> luke-jr you don't payout when the block isn't solved, or you do it but can't afford it?
188 2011-05-31 02:34:43 <luke-jr> darbsllim: the block pays the people who mined for it
189 2011-05-31 02:34:57 <darbsllim> luke-jr if it's solved?
190 2011-05-31 02:35:07 <luke-jr> when
191 2011-05-31 02:35:13 <darbsllim> kika_ was saying that Deepbit pays out if the block isn't solved, is that true?
192 2011-05-31 02:35:57 <luke-jr> darbsllim: if you pay 10% fee
193 2011-05-31 02:36:28 <darbsllim> luke-jr does it work out in the user's favor?
194 2011-05-31 02:36:46 <luke-jr> darbsllim: Eligius pays the maximum possible basically
195 2011-05-31 02:41:33 <kika_> darbsllim: "We pay you for every solved block, even if it later becomes invalid (0.5%-1.2% extra) "
196 2011-05-31 02:42:05 <luke-jr> kika_: but they pay you *less*
197 2011-05-31 02:47:29 <gmaxwell> Split chains are fairly uncommon.
198 2011-05-31 02:47:47 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: how many splits have you had, one or two?
199 2011-05-31 02:48:15 <luke-jr> 1 I think
200 2011-05-31 02:50:09 <gmaxwell> BTC Guild (who has easy stats page with this data, which is why I'm using it) has had two invalids in 198 total. So, basically 1% for them. Which means that if you pay their 2.5% fee to get paid on those blocks, you're still losing 1.5%.
201 2011-05-31 02:50:44 <gmaxwell> (though they do enable other features for the fee and it supports running the pool, so I'm not suggesting that their users who do so are irational)
202 2011-05-31 02:54:48 <darbsllim> gmaxwell what is a plit chain?
203 2011-05-31 02:55:32 <gmaxwell> A split chain is when you solve a block but it doesn't become part of the longest chain because someone else solved a block at around the same time.
204 2011-05-31 02:57:19 <luke-jr> also, you don't lose work on Eligius if a block goes stale ;)
205 2011-05-31 02:58:22 <darbsllim> what happens to the split chain?
206 2011-05-31 02:58:39 <darbsllim> does it create it's own existence like in the action packed psychological thriller Source Code?
207 2011-05-31 03:03:47 <noagendamarket> :0
208 2011-05-31 03:16:59 <yebyen> is there some kind of trick you can do to cap the upload of bitcoin?
209 2011-05-31 03:17:45 <yebyen> something you can put in bitcoin.conf
210 2011-05-31 03:18:00 <yebyen> i need to cap it at 8k/s or i can't leave it running...
211 2011-05-31 03:18:42 <x5x> yebyen, what os ?
212 2011-05-31 03:19:18 <yebyen> linux
213 2011-05-31 03:19:35 <yebyen> can you do it with iptables?
214 2011-05-31 03:23:23 <yebyen> ooh, mastershaper
215 2011-05-31 03:24:56 <yebyen> traffic shaping might not be exactly what i want... there ought to be a way to limit a particular process's uploading
216 2011-05-31 03:25:10 <yebyen> maybe i haven't read enough documentation
217 2011-05-31 03:33:24 <ne0futur> yebyen: trickle can limit a process
218 2011-05-31 03:34:08 <ne0futur> iirc his name , and it wont work woth any binary theres something wil shared or static libs
219 2011-05-31 03:50:38 <iz> so with pushpool, the blkmond watches for new blocks and sends a flush when a new block is found, right?  does that mean when a new block is found, everyone needs to start on a new block?
220 2011-05-31 03:51:03 <iz> or are there several blocks that are being worked on at the same time by the network?  (like by various pools and solo miners)
221 2011-05-31 04:42:49 <da2ce7> https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=4739.0
222 2011-05-31 04:43:00 <da2ce7> ^ dev's check this out.
223 2011-05-31 06:00:12 <blueadept> fish tank is the saddest movie i've ever seen
224 2011-05-31 06:10:43 <x5x> made me wanna move to england
225 2011-05-31 06:58:39 <jrmithdobbs> jaromil: you around?