1 2011-06-02 00:00:04 <pippin> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3638.20
  2 2011-06-02 00:02:21 <luke-jr> [21:56:28] <gjs278> Slix` he had anime to catch up on
  3 2011-06-02 00:02:22 <luke-jr> nice
  4 2011-06-02 00:02:48 <gjs278> those shows have way too many episodes
  5 2011-06-02 00:03:13 <thermal> gjs278: haha yeah. i remember i tried to get into bleach once. maaan it was like a never ending series
  6 2011-06-02 00:03:30 <thermal> gmaxwell: could you suggest some good existing discovery protocols?
  7 2011-06-02 00:03:32 <GarrettB> thermal: there are lots of those
  8 2011-06-02 00:03:32 <gjs278> pokemon is on episode 697
  9 2011-06-02 00:04:07 <gjs278> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon:_Black_%26_White_episodes
 10 2011-06-02 00:04:14 <gjs278> one of the characters in pokemon is named Satoshi
 11 2011-06-02 00:04:19 <gjs278> "Satoshi tries to help a recently revived Aaken learn to fly. "
 12 2011-06-02 00:04:38 <gjs278> aka Ash
 13 2011-06-02 00:04:40 <jrmithdobbs> Slix`: short of it is i wouldn't look at bitcoin for designing the p2p portion of anything, also p2p sucks for anything require realtime responses (like chat) ... see gnutella searches before they added supernode infrastructure stuff
 14 2011-06-02 00:04:50 <thermal> the creator of pokemon is named Satoshi
 15 2011-06-02 00:05:04 <thermal> Satoshi Tajiri
 16 2011-06-02 00:05:05 <gmaxwell> it's a common name.
 17 2011-06-02 00:05:17 <jrmithdobbs> thermal: john signed the declaration of independence too
 18 2011-06-02 00:05:20 <jrmithdobbs> imagine that!
 19 2011-06-02 00:05:37 <thermal> wow that guy sure does get around!
 20 2011-06-02 00:05:41 <Slix`> jrmithdobbs, well, text chat can have lag of about 1-2 seconds, so that's not too bad..
 21 2011-06-02 00:06:07 <jrmithdobbs> Slix`: well for instance, txns right now on the bitcoin p2p network can take upwards of 10 seconds to fully propigate
 22 2011-06-02 00:06:22 <Slix`> That's not great..
 23 2011-06-02 00:06:27 <jrmithdobbs> right
 24 2011-06-02 00:06:40 <Slix`> Maybe there's a more efficient way to design this then..
 25 2011-06-02 00:06:46 <jrmithdobbs> definitely
 26 2011-06-02 00:07:13 <jrmithdobbs> Slix`: the blockchain stuff is cool and pretty solid, but the network code (no matter talking p2p or rpc) is not something that should be emulated by anyone ever
 27 2011-06-02 00:07:26 <thermal> are there any good collaboration websites? (rather than just a wiki)
 28 2011-06-02 00:07:27 <gmaxwell> the p2p part of bitcoin is pretty much "the simplest thing that could possibly work" right now.
 29 2011-06-02 00:07:46 <Slix`> Okay.
 30 2011-06-02 00:07:54 <thermal> perhaps a DHT approach would work well
 31 2011-06-02 00:07:55 <pippin> the disadvantage of multiple clients seems to already exist,. a way to try to solve that problem is agreeing on a way to also distribute "tuning parameters"
 32 2011-06-02 00:08:48 <thermal> improved performance over time
 33 2011-06-02 00:08:57 <thermal> from long term peer relationships
 34 2011-06-02 00:09:04 <pippin> thermal: one could use a DHT, with content adressed storage (like git), and in each stored block store a back pointer to the previous hash/sha1/md5 sum, and then the block data
 35 2011-06-02 00:09:17 <gmaxwell> ...
 36 2011-06-02 00:09:32 <thermal> i like it
 37 2011-06-02 00:09:43 <gmaxwell> I think it should bounce a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish.
 38 2011-06-02 00:09:54 <thermal> breaking it down into more easily addressable parts is the way to go
 39 2011-06-02 00:10:01 <gmaxwell> ...
 40 2011-06-02 00:10:12 <gmaxwell> The block chain isn't something you need random access to.
 41 2011-06-02 00:10:24 <upb> leveraging vertical markets to increase roi would be the way to go
 42 2011-06-02 00:10:33 <gmaxwell> Talking about DHT etc with respect to it just shows that you're clueless and you're throwing out technobabble.
 43 2011-06-02 00:10:52 <gmaxwell> upb: There could be serious synergy there!
 44 2011-06-02 00:11:44 <thermal> i was going to say the same thing about you
 45 2011-06-02 00:11:49 <thermal> but i rose above that
 46 2011-06-02 00:12:14 <thermal> i've wasted far too much of my life already over internet arguments with idiots
 47 2011-06-02 00:12:38 <gmaxwell> I'd point everyone to the bitcoin paper, which you must read if you haven't yet, but it actually says just about nothing wrt the p2p part of it.
 48 2011-06-02 00:12:45 <thermal> so, /ignore'ing you is the best approach
 49 2011-06-02 00:13:08 <thermal> ok back to constructive conversation, pippin
 50 2011-06-02 00:13:43 <thermal> breaking up the blockchain into more easily addressable parts has many benefits
 51 2011-06-02 00:13:47 <gmaxwell> Really, stop trying to redesign it when you don't even know what it does.
 52 2011-06-02 00:14:10 <thermal> integrity checking, and distribution optimisation
 53 2011-06-02 00:14:16 <gmaxwell> No. It doesn't. It's already blocks. You can already request them one by one.
 54 2011-06-02 00:14:30 <thermal> sort of like a bittorrent
 55 2011-06-02 00:14:32 <gmaxwell> They're already addressed by a unique index.
 56 2011-06-02 00:14:36 <thermal> bittorrent approach
 57 2011-06-02 00:14:57 <gmaxwell> And all full nodes must have seen the complete set in order to validate any of them.
 58 2011-06-02 00:14:59 <thermal> with a unique identifier to reference each one, such as sha1
 59 2011-06-02 00:15:17 <gmaxwell> you mean the sha256 thats already on them that proves they are valid blocks?
 60 2011-06-02 00:18:13 <pippin> I guess the only thing that wouldn't be stored if that was used as the index, is the order/index of the block; is that used as a reference/backpointer in transactions in subsequent blocks?
 61 2011-06-02 00:19:54 <forrestv> why isn't a change tx created if the change is less than a cent?
 62 2011-06-02 00:19:55 <thermal> not sure. i'm going to read the paper again and try to come up with some good ideas
 63 2011-06-02 00:20:06 <gmaxwell> Transactions have reference prior txns by txn id, not block.
 64 2011-06-02 00:20:32 <gmaxwell> forrestv: because values less than a cent were not previously spendable.
 65 2011-06-02 00:20:53 <gmaxwell> or rather if you spent one, you needed a 0.01 fee along with it.
 66 2011-06-02 00:21:09 <gmaxwell> The fee change to 0.0005 also changes that behavior I believe but I'm not completely sure.
 67 2011-06-02 00:21:23 <pippin> then for such a DHT like storage of it, one would also have to store lists of the transactions in separate blobs, and in communicating what is the "head" of the data-structure to unravel it, would be the sha1 of this list, not of blocks themselves
 68 2011-06-02 00:22:02 <pippin> if, for confirming some transactions; you do not need to walk all the way back, that node and the ones it communicate with would only need to share the traversed part of the chain
 69 2011-06-02 00:22:15 <pippin> given that the delays introduced by that were acceptable
 70 2011-06-02 00:22:25 <thermal> re "improved performance over time from long term peer relationships": peers could be identified by an identifier such as the hash of their public key
 71 2011-06-02 00:22:42 <gmaxwell> you can't validate a sequence of TXNs without also knowing the blocks to determine their order, and you can't validate the blocks without all the data (well, all minus tree grooming)
 72 2011-06-02 00:22:47 <thermal> peers that work well together would take not of this and prefer those peers in the future
 73 2011-06-02 00:23:23 <pippin> gmaxwell: what you would know when you bootstrap a client would be a hash into the DHT to retrieve a "text-file", containing the SHA1 sums of all blocks
 74 2011-06-02 00:23:26 <thermal> when peers register with the "tracker" this identifier (public key hash) would be associated with their address
 75 2011-06-02 00:23:54 <pippin> gmaxwell: this would give you a mapping of number == SHA1 (as solved by the mining) for fetching the other blocks from shared storage..
 76 2011-06-02 00:24:54 <pwrcycle> on a transaction of .01 i get this: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.01 because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds
 77 2011-06-02 00:25:00 <gmaxwell> of you could just pick a peer at random and ask it for block 0, then another peer at random and ask it for block 2.....
 78 2011-06-02 00:25:24 <pwrcycle> i just transfered it today, and it's been about 6 hours. how long do i have to wait?
 79 2011-06-02 00:25:40 <pippin> gmaxwell: ,. what is distributed is not in any way secret though
 80 2011-06-02 00:25:57 <pippin> what I described above, could be directly stored and synchronized among git repositories
 81 2011-06-02 00:26:34 <gmaxwell> pippin: Perhaps I have no idea what you're talking about then.
 82 2011-06-02 00:27:01 <thermal> a likely scenario
 83 2011-06-02 00:27:35 <thermal> could be the increase in enterprise use, rather than consumer internet connections
 84 2011-06-02 00:27:56 <thermal> when popularity reaches a certain point. might be worth factoring that in
 85 2011-06-02 00:28:12 <pippin> the most important shared state between bitcoin nods is the block chain, storing it in an alternate form that is also randomly accessible is insuring against a single point of failure
 86 2011-06-02 00:28:22 <pippin> s/nods/nodes/
 87 2011-06-02 00:29:06 <pippin> if someone posted a succesful new block first to such a variation of the block chain, the new block would fit in on the original just as well
 88 2011-06-02 00:29:41 <pippin> and bootstrapping a client, could be done via git or http or the network
 89 2011-06-02 00:30:04 <thermal> with increased popularity there is eventually going to be a lot of data to handle, too
 90 2011-06-02 00:30:06 <pippin> or even lazily on demand
 91 2011-06-02 00:30:21 <gmaxwell> You must make sure you factor in the upmarket down trends which could instigate a cyclical exchange cycle.
 92 2011-06-02 00:30:59 <gmaxwell> Or you could just implement the lite client proposal, where new nodes don't need the block chain history... and use the existing http sites to download the historical data where it is needed&
 93 2011-06-02 00:32:29 <gmaxwell> ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/blockchain/bitcoin_blockchain_120000.zip/download )
 94 2011-06-02 01:04:46 <forexmasterja> Is anyone here running a 4 gpu card rig ? What would be a good power supply to power 4 5850's ?
 95 2011-06-02 01:05:43 <ne0futur> you couls have more answers on #bitcoin-mining
 96 2011-06-02 01:47:11 <spacewagon> I am trying to get bitcoind to run on an ubuntu ec2 instance.  When I go bitcoind getinfo I get the following error
 97 2011-06-02 01:47:44 <spacewagon> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
 98 2011-06-02 01:47:50 <spacewagon> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNREC bitcoin in AppInit()
 99 2011-06-02 01:48:05 <spacewagon> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbRunRecoveryException'   what():  DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
100 2011-06-02 01:48:08 <spacewagon> Aborted
101 2011-06-02 01:48:27 <spacewagon> Does anyone know why I am getting that error
102 2011-06-02 01:59:52 <gjs278> spacewagon
103 2011-06-02 02:00:01 <gjs278> what version of db do you have installed
104 2011-06-02 02:00:10 <gjs278> are you using the binaries
105 2011-06-02 02:00:22 <spacewagon> I just did sudo apt-get install bitcoin
106 2011-06-02 02:00:37 <gjs278> did it install berkely database on you
107 2011-06-02 02:00:39 <gjs278> or just bitcoin
108 2011-06-02 02:01:13 <gjs278> I've only gotten that error one time because I ran bitcoind with 4.8, downgraded to 4.7, and tried to open it
109 2011-06-02 02:01:51 <spacewagon> im not sure..i saw a forum post saying delete .bitcoin/database
110 2011-06-02 02:01:53 <spacewagon> so I did that
111 2011-06-02 02:02:00 <spacewagon> and I don't get that error anymore
112 2011-06-02 02:02:06 <gjs278> ok
113 2011-06-02 02:02:14 <gjs278> ok
114 2011-06-02 02:02:19 <gjs278> did you edit your bitcoin.conf
115 2011-06-02 02:02:26 <gjs278> with the rpcusername and password
116 2011-06-02 02:02:48 <gjs278> it's in .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
117 2011-06-02 02:02:51 <gjs278> you may have to create it
118 2011-06-02 02:03:01 <spacewagon> i did, but I had a question about that.  Does it have to be a specific username/pw, or can I enter what ever?
119 2011-06-02 02:03:07 <gjs278> you can enter anything
120 2011-06-02 02:03:19 <gjs278> you just need to fill rpcuser= and rpcpassword=
121 2011-06-02 02:03:29 <gjs278> once you've done that, try just "bitcoind"
122 2011-06-02 02:03:34 <gjs278> and it should start
123 2011-06-02 02:04:10 <spacewagon> it just hangs for a while
124 2011-06-02 02:04:49 <spacewagon> should it go instantly?
125 2011-06-02 02:05:03 <gjs278> you might have to retard version of bitcoind that doesnt background by default
126 2011-06-02 02:05:15 <gjs278> ctrl+c that one and do
127 2011-06-02 02:05:17 <gjs278> bitcoind -daemon
128 2011-06-02 02:05:21 <gjs278> or
129 2011-06-02 02:05:23 <gjs278> bitcoind -server
130 2011-06-02 02:05:25 <gjs278> one of the two
131 2011-06-02 02:05:57 <spacewagon> bitcoind -server just hangs
132 2011-06-02 02:06:04 <gjs278> what about -daemon
133 2011-06-02 02:06:17 <spacewagon> and bitcoind -daemon says "bitcoin server starting"  and then hangs
134 2011-06-02 02:06:22 <gjs278> hmm
135 2011-06-02 02:06:27 <gjs278> try both
136 2011-06-02 02:07:27 <gjs278> -daemon alone should do the job though
137 2011-06-02 02:07:30 <spacewagon> ahhh there we go
138 2011-06-02 02:07:32 <gjs278> oh ok
139 2011-06-02 02:07:33 <gjs278> cool
140 2011-06-02 02:07:34 <spacewagon> yea it looks like it did
141 2011-06-02 02:07:38 <spacewagon> thank ya much
142 2011-06-02 02:07:40 <spacewagon> :)
143 2011-06-02 02:07:42 <gjs278> no problem
144 2011-06-02 02:12:45 <eamon> Is it true that the network has a limit of 7 transactions per second? How does that compare with other payment systems?
145 2011-06-02 02:17:31 <io_error> eamon: It's currently true, but only because there's a cap of 1MB on the block size.
146 2011-06-02 02:18:23 <eamon> io_error: I see. That would be easy to change then.
147 2011-06-02 02:18:42 <io_error> eamon: Quite so. And currently blocks are not getting anywhere near that size.
148 2011-06-02 02:21:11 <magiik> can anyone here provide me with an example getwork, and a resulting hash + source nonce? i want to verify some code I wrote
149 2011-06-02 02:21:35 <magiik> going AFK, PM me if you have an example, thanks
150 2011-06-02 02:28:10 <Skroob> Hello
151 2011-06-02 02:28:21 <Skroob> Is anyone aware of an in-progress iOS wallet?
152 2011-06-02 02:39:04 <generalseven> hi devs, where is the best place to give feedback on the client?  I'm a new user who just got started a few days ago and have made about 10 transactions so far.
153 2011-06-02 02:43:22 <cacheson> generalseven: on the forum, I guess?  I don't know of anything official
154 2011-06-02 02:44:27 <generalseven> cacheson, what about here?
155 2011-06-02 02:45:01 <io_error> generalseven: Even developers have to sleep sometimes. Who knows if your statement will ever be seen?
156 2011-06-02 02:45:36 <generalseven> io_error, it seems like you're awake though (just awake, or still awake)
157 2011-06-02 02:45:52 <io_error> generalseven: But I am not a core Bitcoin developer :P
158 2011-06-02 02:46:06 <generalseven> io_error, okay, who is?
159 2011-06-02 02:46:21 <generalseven> if they're on channel, I can send them a query
160 2011-06-02 02:46:52 <io_error> Says on github that you should start a forum thread. http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?board=6.0
161 2011-06-02 02:46:59 <io_error> Though the link is old
162 2011-06-02 02:47:09 <io_error> It should be https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?board=6.0
163 2011-06-02 02:48:17 <generalseven> io_error, it looks like my request is already there
164 2011-06-02 02:48:38 <io_error> generalseven: You mean you already posted it, or someone else did?
165 2011-06-02 02:48:58 <generalseven> posted
166 2011-06-02 02:49:10 <gmaxwell> Link?
167 2011-06-02 02:49:14 <generalseven> it's a big problem, not just for new users I think
168 2011-06-02 02:52:29 <gmaxwell> generalseven: where is your post?
169 2011-06-02 02:52:59 <generalseven> gmaxwell, I didn't need to make it, others have already discussed it
170 2011-06-02 02:53:05 <generalseven> gmaxwell, are you a dev?
171 2011-06-02 02:54:04 <generalseven> io_error: I meant OTHERS have posted, I didn't need to.
172 2011-06-02 02:54:14 <generalseven> it's an obvious need
173 2011-06-02 02:54:21 <io_error> generalseven: You aren't going to share?
174 2011-06-02 02:54:52 <generalseven> io_error, take a guess, what are your top three needs for the client?
175 2011-06-02 02:54:56 <gmaxwell> No, I'm just a cheerleader. (with a beard)
176 2011-06-02 02:55:36 <generalseven> gmaxwell, LOL, I think there are more of you in the BITCommunity
177 2011-06-02 02:55:39 <gmaxwell> generalseven: a lot of people awake now keep current with development, so e.g. if something you're requesting is something which done but not yet released we coul probably tell you.
178 2011-06-02 02:55:39 <io_error> generalseven: LOL, when I have complaints about the client I'll just code up the changes and send a pull request.
179 2011-06-02 02:55:55 <io_error> generalseven: And please PLEASE stop jerking our chains.
180 2011-06-02 02:56:08 <gmaxwell> io_error: be nice. :)
181 2011-06-02 02:56:23 <io_error> gmaxwell: I AM being nice :)
182 2011-06-02 02:56:26 <generalseven> io_error, not my intention -- wallet management and security would be at the top of my list
183 2011-06-02 02:56:41 <gmaxwell> generalseven: You mean like wallet encryption?
184 2011-06-02 02:56:45 <generalseven> io_error, if you want to know something, don't be shy
185 2011-06-02 02:57:00 <io_error> I think there are pulls for wallet backup and encryption already?
186 2011-06-02 02:57:07 <generalseven> gmaxwell, for example, yes
187 2011-06-02 02:57:18 <gmaxwell> generalseven: So, there is wallet encryption code done, looks like it'll be in the 0.4.0 release somewhat soon.
188 2011-06-02 02:57:22 <generalseven> io_error, wouldn't surprise me
189 2011-06-02 02:57:31 <gmaxwell> io_error: the backup stuff is there already but I guess its not in the GUI?
190 2011-06-02 02:57:34 <generalseven> gmaxwell, yes, I'm glad to see that
191 2011-06-02 02:57:56 <generalseven> if it's in the GUI I didn't see it
192 2011-06-02 02:58:08 <io_error> gmaxwell: No, and besides you'd want to make it an encrypted backup anyway :)
193 2011-06-02 02:58:24 <gmaxwell> generalseven: it's available via the RPC at least in .21. I don't know what the plans are for backup in the gui.
194 2011-06-02 02:58:35 <gmaxwell> I use the rpc backup every day or rather, my crontab does.
195 2011-06-02 02:58:47 <generalseven> gmaxwell, I'd recommend pushing that forward if they can
196 2011-06-02 02:58:57 <io_error> One thing I've learned the hard way is... It's easy to backup, but not so easy to restore! So test both.
197 2011-06-02 02:59:18 <generalseven> gmaxwell, rpc backup and crontab are way too much for the rush of users waiting to get into this stuff
198 2011-06-02 02:59:47 <gmaxwell> generalseven: of course I didn't intend to suggest otherwise. Just letting you know that the need isn't being forgotten.
199 2011-06-02 03:00:07 <generalseven> io_error, someone needs to write very easy instructions for this procedure -- Now we're dealing with money!
200 2011-06-02 03:00:11 <gmaxwell> (sometimes things may end up in the RPC first because good interfaces are more work than just the engine behind them)
201 2011-06-02 03:00:25 <generalseven> gmaxwell, I noticed it on the forum, but yes, thanks.
202 2011-06-02 03:00:43 <gmaxwell> generalseven: Did you have any negative expirences with the software? Things that frustrated or confused you?
203 2011-06-02 03:00:48 <io_error> generalseven: Just think of the poor guy with 371,000 BTC. I'm sure he's got backup all worked out. :)
204 2011-06-02 03:01:05 <generalseven> gmaxwell, thanks for asking
205 2011-06-02 03:01:14 <cacheson> io_error: yes, that poor, poor multimillionaire  ;)
206 2011-06-02 03:01:20 <generalseven> yes, it's good software, but far too complex for the average user
207 2011-06-02 03:01:31 <gmaxwell> There isn't any single address with that much btc&
208 2011-06-02 03:01:43 <io_error> gmaxwell: And there wouldn't be, unless he spent it all at once
209 2011-06-02 03:02:04 <gmaxwell> io_error: well there is some genius with 250,000 BTC in a single address.
210 2011-06-02 03:02:11 <osmosis> gmaxwell, a single person doesnt correlate with a single address.
211 2011-06-02 03:02:17 <cacheson> generalseven: it's definitely still beta software, the interest in it has outpaced development
212 2011-06-02 03:02:22 <gmaxwell> osmosis: yes& I know this.
213 2011-06-02 03:02:37 <generalseven> gmaxwell, but desperate need for a lock on the wallet
214 2011-06-02 03:02:41 <gmaxwell> osmosis: but if its not in a single address you can't be sure that any single person has it. :)
215 2011-06-02 03:02:54 <generalseven> and safe and crystal clear ways to protect and backup
216 2011-06-02 03:02:57 <osmosis> 250,000 BTC  is 2 and a half million USD now. shesh
217 2011-06-02 03:03:09 <gmaxwell> generalseven: in the short term advanced users can use truecrypt or other disk encryption to secure their wallet.
218 2011-06-02 03:03:14 <lolcat> osmosis: It hit $11?
219 2011-06-02 03:03:22 <generalseven> gmaxwell, that's what I'm looking at
220 2011-06-02 03:03:34 <generalseven> but now I'm concerned about the whole restore process
221 2011-06-02 03:03:36 <io_error> Still bouncing around 9.5-9.6
222 2011-06-02 03:03:37 <osmosis> lolcat, its nearing 10
223 2011-06-02 03:03:47 <io_error> We'
224 2011-06-02 03:03:48 <lolcat> osmosis: 10 minus 0,65%
225 2011-06-02 03:03:52 <io_error> We'll likely see 10 tomorrow
226 2011-06-02 03:03:54 <generalseven> in the meantime, the tutorials and wiki info are written for technical people
227 2011-06-02 03:04:00 <gmaxwell> generalseven: you can try restoring on another machine no harm will come from opening two clients on your wallet at once.
228 2011-06-02 03:04:00 <m4rtin> should i tay or should i go nowwww
229 2011-06-02 03:04:01 <osmosis> lolcat, why the minus?
230 2011-06-02 03:04:10 <lolcat> osmosis: mt-gox fee
231 2011-06-02 03:04:22 <gmaxwell> Though you shouldn't do any transactions on the test system unless you want to create confusion for yourself.
232 2011-06-02 03:04:39 <generalseven> gmaxwell, that's a good suggestion, but can I open two instances on one dumb windows machine?
233 2011-06-02 03:05:43 <generalseven> gmaxwell, there should be best practices clearly defined for this crucial subject!
234 2011-06-02 03:05:43 <gmaxwell> generalseven: I'm not windows clueful. In *NIX you can simply point it to a seperate directory for the client data.  You can also swap out the files manually, but this might not be the wisest thing to do if you're unsure of your backups!
235 2011-06-02 03:06:26 <generalseven> gmaxwell, now you begin to see the problem, I'm geting some different suggestions from people.
236 2011-06-02 03:06:29 <gmaxwell> generalseven: there are forum posts on this and perhaps some documentation I'm not aware of. You've gone into a subject matter I'm personally cluseless about (standard operations on windows)
237 2011-06-02 03:07:01 <generalseven> gmaxwell, no problem, just curious.  I'll get it worked out eventually.
238 2011-06-02 03:07:17 <generalseven> gmaxwell, but you see it creates a dilemma for newcomers
239 2011-06-02 03:07:40 <generalseven> I would push this issue up the priority cue!
240 2011-06-02 03:08:37 <gmaxwell> The documentation isn't a development issue at least. This is something the broader bitcoin community can create.
241 2011-06-02 03:09:48 <generalseven> gmaxwell, I completely agree about the documentation.  But isn't there an organized way for the information to trickle down to the "broader BTC community"?
242 2011-06-02 03:10:14 <gmaxwell> We have a wiki. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
243 2011-06-02 03:10:16 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
244 2011-06-02 03:10:17 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.6987,"low":8.6,"vol":43522,"buy":9.5334,"sell":9.6898,"last":9.6589}}
245 2011-06-02 03:11:37 <io_error> And besides, do you really want developers writing documentation? :D
246 2011-06-02 03:11:54 <gmaxwell> Also I think there might be good business in writing a 'bitcoin for dummies' book if someone is fealing enterprising.
247 2011-06-02 03:12:00 <gmaxwell> io_error: some are pretty good ad it.
248 2011-06-02 03:12:04 <generalseven> gmaxwell, Oh THAT.  It doesn't look organized at all.
249 2011-06-02 03:12:40 <generalseven> gmaxwell, would be glad to get that done.  Any ideas on how to market it?
250 2011-06-02 03:12:47 <gmaxwell> generalseven: Because it's a wiki: _you_ can organize it.  Of course, once you know enough to do that you'll be less motivated which is probably the issue we have now.
251 2011-06-02 03:12:58 <gmaxwell> generalseven: No clue.
252 2011-06-02 03:13:21 <generalseven> which BITC sites are getting the most traffic?
253 2011-06-02 03:14:21 <gmaxwell> I can make some guesses, but I've seen no data. The bitcoin.org site, the forums, mtgox, are obvious top sites. Beyond that I don't have a feel for which sites get the most traffic.
254 2011-06-02 03:14:50 <generalseven> Do you know the owners of any of the ones you named?
255 2011-06-02 03:15:12 <sacarlson> am I reading this code in net.cpp correct that the pnSeed array is not used when running in -testnet mode?
256 2011-06-02 03:15:16 <generalseven> What do you think you could charge for such a book, assuming it were A+ quality?
257 2011-06-02 03:16:29 <sacarlson> generalseven: I'm not sure what sites are getting lots of trafic but I can tell you my http://exchange.beertokens.info isn't getting many hits,  my guess would be mtgox winner
258 2011-06-02 03:17:24 <generalseven> sacarlson: LOL
259 2011-06-02 03:21:26 <sacarlson> generalseven: but I would have to assume that mtgox days are numbered with many good competitive sites moving in on his biz and others
260 2011-06-02 03:22:51 <sacarlson> generalseven: the next group I would guess to compete would be the casino groups
261 2011-06-02 03:24:25 <sacarlson> to blow away the monopoly that pokerstars.com had on the market as the big boy there will soon be bitcoin or dirivitive coin taking over
262 2011-06-02 03:29:09 <sacarlson> wait till you see my new pokerth version to be released soon with a P2P cryto-currency interface
263 2011-06-02 03:39:37 <wumpus> sacarlson: yes that'd be great
264 2011-06-02 03:43:49 <wumpus> mtgox really needs to modernize, their site works but is a bit crappy and slow compared to the state of the art
265 2011-06-02 03:44:57 <io_error> wumpus: You might want to tell him that. :)
266 2011-06-02 03:45:05 <io_error> er
267 2011-06-02 03:45:09 <noagendamarket> wumpus hes working on it
268 2011-06-02 03:45:12 <io_error> wumpus: You might want to tell MagicalTux that.
269 2011-06-02 03:45:43 <noagendamarket> you just cant see the front end changing at the moment
270 2011-06-02 03:45:48 <noagendamarket> its all back end
271 2011-06-02 03:45:51 <wumpus> noagendamarket: cool
272 2011-06-02 03:46:33 <wumpus> yes you can't really see what's happening under the hood, which means to outsiders it looks a bit stagnant
273 2011-06-02 03:49:08 <wumpus> but it's great to hear he's still working on it, I think it's the single most important site for bitcoin at the moment
274 2011-06-02 03:56:54 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: he inherited some shit code
275 2011-06-02 03:57:00 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: it's def getting better
276 2011-06-02 05:08:00 <cacheson> "Of course, you haven't actually done any work yet."
277 2011-06-02 05:08:05 <cacheson> way to rub it in, django
278 2011-06-02 05:19:42 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
279 2011-06-02 05:19:49 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
280 2011-06-02 05:19:49 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.82,"low":8.6293,"vol":44860,"buy":9.82,"sell":9.83,"last":9.82}}
281 2011-06-02 05:19:51 <gjs278> come on robot
282 2011-06-02 05:19:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128105 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 918 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 508236.68573583
283 2011-06-02 05:19:53 <JFK911> wow
284 2011-06-02 05:20:03 <gjs278> yeah wow is right
285 2011-06-02 05:40:53 <sethsethseth_> The United States still relies heavily on cheques, due to the absence of a high volume system for low value electronic payments.[23] About 70 billion cheques were written annually in the U.S. by 2001, though almost 25% of Americans do not have bank accounts at all.
286 2011-06-02 05:41:05 <sethsethseth_> lol, just noticed this section on wikipedia for "cheque"
287 2011-06-02 05:44:14 <io_error> That seems rather outdated.
288 2011-06-02 05:46:20 <sethsethseth_> lol we should edit it to make a bitcoin plug:)
289 2011-06-02 06:03:16 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: what did you dooooooooo
290 2011-06-02 06:47:02 <helmut> hi. could someone get me some testnet money to get some experience with the rpc interface?
291 2011-06-02 06:47:13 <gjs278> there's a testnet faucet somewhere
292 2011-06-02 06:47:31 <helmut> thanks for the hint :-)
293 2011-06-02 06:49:16 <helmut> got it. precisely what I needed.
294 2011-06-02 06:55:25 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
295 2011-06-02 06:55:25 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.969,"low":8.6293,"vol":49113,"buy":9.8893,"sell":9.8999,"last":9.8893}}
296 2011-06-02 06:56:31 <io_error> ;;later tell theymos blockexplorer seems to be unreachable
297 2011-06-02 06:56:32 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
298 2011-06-02 07:07:44 <jav_irc> Does someone have some insight on what the RPC-call getbalance has to do? any way to speed that up? I need to call this a lot and it seems to be quite an expensive operation
299 2011-06-02 07:08:38 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
300 2011-06-02 07:09:28 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
301 2011-06-02 07:09:49 <doublec> jav_irc: it iterates through all transactoins in the wallet, calculating the amounts
302 2011-06-02 07:10:14 <doublec> jav_irc: so the bigger the wallet, the slower it is
303 2011-06-02 07:12:45 <jav_irc> so could it maybe be extended to cache those results and on the next call only iterate over new transactions?
304 2011-06-02 07:14:55 <jav_irc> or any other suggestions on how to do a speedy getbalance? ... I do this for instawallet.org and I guess it won't scale
305 2011-06-02 07:15:47 <io_error> jav_irc: Cache them yourself; get the monitortx patch from whichever git pull it is, and then you can see whenever you need to update your idea of the balance?
306 2011-06-02 07:17:17 <jav_irc> io_error: I considered that as well, but I don't think it won't help much... I currently call this every few seconds to see if I have to ajax-push a new balance to the site. Of course I can do this only when monitortx calls me, but there is also a new transaction every few seconds, so I don't think it will reduce the poll rate much
307 2011-06-02 07:18:11 <jav_irc> basically monitortx is too generic for this... doesn't it call me on _every_ transaction? .. or only on those that belong to me?
308 2011-06-02 07:18:29 <io_error> jav_irc: I don't remember, I only use the monitorblock part of that patch
309 2011-06-02 07:18:59 <jav_irc> if it only calls me when there is something that could affect me, that that would definitely help.. that should not happen that often right now
310 2011-06-02 07:20:27 <doublec> jav_irc: you can register addresses that intrest you
311 2011-06-02 07:20:34 <doublec> jav_irc: and it notifies you of only those
312 2011-06-02 07:21:22 <doublec> jav_irc: are you using bitcoind's account feature?
313 2011-06-02 07:21:45 <io_error> jav_irc: OK, I looked at the patch, and it only sends a POST to you when it gets a transaction that affects your wallet
314 2011-06-02 07:22:08 <jav_irc> dream feature: bitcoind could provide a way to notify on very specific events... like a rule that would say "call me whenever a transaction happens that touches this account"... new block and new transaction would then just be one option to a powerful monitor framework
315 2011-06-02 07:23:08 <io_error> so it should be fine for you to use
316 2011-06-02 07:23:22 <jav_irc> io_error: thx, awesome.. then that should help!
317 2011-06-02 07:23:25 <jav_irc> doublec: yes, I use the account feature... I can register addresses that interest me?
318 2011-06-02 07:23:40 <doublec> jav_irc: iirc correctly. It's been a while since I used it.
319 2011-06-02 07:23:42 <io_error> jav_irc, doublec: If that's true, you must be referring to some other patch
320 2011-06-02 07:23:58 <jav_irc> io_error: yes, will switch to that then.... just need to clean up the patch, I guess? from reading the forum it seems it bit-rotted a little and doesn't apply in a clean way to latest git?
321 2011-06-02 07:24:05 <doublec> io_error: this one http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=1319.0
322 2011-06-02 07:24:05 <io_error> jav_irc: Correct
323 2011-06-02 07:24:18 <doublec> it has monitoraddress <bitcoinaddress> <url> [monitor=true]
324 2011-06-02 07:24:36 <io_error> doublec: Ah, yes, that's ancient, he's reworked it since then
325 2011-06-02 07:24:51 <doublec> ah, ok
326 2011-06-02 07:25:03 <io_error> doublec: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7421.0
327 2011-06-02 07:25:37 <io_error> jav_irc: NO, it doesn't apply cleanly, though I can send you my semi-cleaned patch. It's nowhere near ready to go into bitcoin itself (Gavin needs to clean it up even further) but I hacked it into compiling and running :)
328 2011-06-02 07:25:38 <doublec> thanks
329 2011-06-02 07:26:12 <doublec> jav_irc: another approach is to use jgarzik's blkmond half node
330 2011-06-02 07:26:28 <doublec> jav_irc: and modify that to ping your web server on a transaction, passing it the transaction details
331 2011-06-02 07:26:35 <doublec> jav_irc: and you can filter there
332 2011-06-02 07:26:48 <io_error> Sure, but that's a lot of pinging
333 2011-06-02 07:27:33 <io_error> jav_irc: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24777749/0001-New-RPC-calls-monitortx-monitorblocks-listmonitored.patch
334 2011-06-02 07:28:49 <jav_irc> io_error: thx a lot for the patch!
335 2011-06-02 07:30:33 <jav_irc> doublec: thx for the suggestion... but that monitortx call seems more future-proof.. I think it should definitely be merged, because I have seen many other people needing something like that
336 2011-06-02 07:32:19 <io_error> Well maybe now Gavin will clean it up (C++ annoys me these days) and get it pushed in
337 2011-06-02 07:32:54 <jav_irc> I also don't have much C++ experience
338 2011-06-02 07:33:49 <io_error> jav_irc: heh, my solution was less than elegant; I don't think whole classes should normally be in .h files :)
339 2011-06-02 07:34:01 <io_error> But it works
340 2011-06-02 07:34:32 <jav_irc> that's good enough for now :-) .. I can switch to the cleaned-up version, once it hopefully appears in master at some point
341 2011-06-02 07:35:20 <io_error> Yeah, I'll do the same :)
342 2011-06-02 07:37:07 <jav_irc> my next biggest thing on my wish list would be better fee handling.. any developments on that front?
343 2011-06-02 07:37:25 <io_error> jav_irc: Not something I've been working on
344 2011-06-02 07:40:45 <jav_irc> I'm pretty new to github... what is your preferred way of following development and staying current with what's happening? are there any particular RSS feeds to watch out for?
345 2011-06-02 07:41:57 <io_error> jav_irc: I'm just following bitcoin, at least for bitcoin stuff :)
346 2011-06-02 07:42:04 <io_error> And chasing down interesting patches
347 2011-06-02 07:43:55 <sipa> jav_irc: check out https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/289
348 2011-06-02 07:45:10 <jav_irc> sipa: yeah, just saw that as well... looks very promising
349 2011-06-02 07:46:14 <jav_irc> sipa: and the commit/reject transaction feature is exactly what I had in mind to make this more predictable... that's great
350 2011-06-02 07:46:24 <BlueMatt> jav_irc: if you "watch" bitcoin on github, you can find an rss feed on your github main page that should cover the bitcoin pull reqs/bugs/commits
351 2011-06-02 07:46:33 <BlueMatt> other than that, just follow the forum and hang out here
352 2011-06-02 07:46:50 <sipa> on github, can you fork a fork?
353 2011-06-02 07:46:51 <UukGoblin> where blockexplorer gone? :-[
354 2011-06-02 07:46:58 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes
355 2011-06-02 07:47:20 <BlueMatt> people used to fork mine when my main branch was a way out-of-date patched thing and get their forks all messed up
356 2011-06-02 07:47:56 <jav_irc> BlueMatt: thx! .. I find the forums a little crowded these days
357 2011-06-02 07:48:04 <BlueMatt> same here
358 2011-06-02 07:48:06 <sipa> if i click 'fork' on khalahan's repository, i just end up in my own bitcoin tree
359 2011-06-02 07:48:13 <BlueMatt> dev forums are full of crap
360 2011-06-02 07:48:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: only if you dont have a fork will it let you
361 2011-06-02 07:48:29 <sipa> nah :)
362 2011-06-02 07:48:30 <BlueMatt> (an upstream forks)
363 2011-06-02 07:48:53 <sipa> well, i can do it manually
364 2011-06-02 07:48:56 <jav_irc> shouldn't the development discussion move to a old-fashioned mailing list? somehow that seems to improve signal-to-noise ratio
365 2011-06-02 07:49:04 <io_error> sipa: I don't think you can have 2 forks of th same project
366 2011-06-02 07:49:21 <BlueMatt> jav_irc: for now, this chan is pretty good about that
367 2011-06-02 07:49:25 <BlueMatt> you just have to know who to /ignore
368 2011-06-02 07:49:39 <io_error> I absolutely CANNOT STAND old-fashioned mailing lists
369 2011-06-02 07:50:56 <jav_irc> I find IRC to time consuming... I prefer to read up on stuff in batches... I guess reading IRC logs is somewhat an option, but also lots of unecessary chatter in there
370 2011-06-02 07:52:12 <BlueMatt> true, there was some discussion an while back about making a dev mailing list, but half the people hated the idea and half loved it, and if half the people wont use it it there is no point
371 2011-06-02 07:54:29 <jav_irc> seems like the forums aren't used much either though... I think your "Better fee UI" patch is extremly important, but isn't getting much attention... well, maybe I have too much of an instawallet-centric view =)
372 2011-06-02 07:55:35 <BlueMatt> all the dev forum discussion is really theoretical out-there "this could break" causing x,y,z and because x and y you could have this problem...
373 2011-06-02 07:55:53 <BlueMatt> and then someone smart comes on and says, well because it cant break in the first place, you are good
374 2011-06-02 07:56:21 <BlueMatt> and then you get two pages of people debating tiny low-probability things which could in 10 million years cause it to break
375 2011-06-02 07:57:18 <jav_irc> exactly... so what are the don't-like-mailing-list people saying about this problem?
376 2011-06-02 07:57:44 <BlueMatt> I dont know, I dont care either way, but I have a feeling a mailing list would be the same thing
377 2011-06-02 07:57:59 <gjs278> I am saying use this channel
378 2011-06-02 07:58:22 <gjs278> it's like email to the extreme
379 2011-06-02 07:59:30 <io_error> I already get hundreds of emails a day, I don't need a bunch more
380 2011-06-02 08:01:18 <jav_irc> but it needs a more asynchronous counterpart
381 2011-06-02 08:01:57 <jav_irc> and the forum... it's like imagining the linux kernel team setting up a phpBB forum to discuss development
382 2011-06-02 08:02:46 <BlueMatt> Id like to see dev forum split into pull reqs/patches/dev stuff and problems with the network/theoretical s
383 2011-06-02 08:03:14 <Namegduf> You could call them "Actual Dev" and "I Need A Blog"
384 2011-06-02 08:03:18 <gjs278> just make a secret section and invite whoever you want
385 2011-06-02 08:03:44 <BlueMatt> no, good to discuss in public, not where everyone comments and wastes time
386 2011-06-02 08:03:46 <comboy> I'm far from having voice here, but I think forum or mailing list are better than irc in the way that it is easier to catch up selectively only on the topics you are interested in
387 2011-06-02 08:04:01 <jav_irc> comboy: agreed
388 2011-06-02 08:04:17 <gjs278> I would never respond to the mailing list
389 2011-06-02 08:04:23 <gjs278> I'm not about to open my email to answer
390 2011-06-02 08:04:27 <BlueMatt> well typically anything important that happens here you can catch up with if you check the commit logs and forum
391 2011-06-02 08:04:37 <Namegduf> "I once setup an Apache server with SSL, so I know that since bitcoin uses encryption, someone must have a certificate somewhere which could steal all the bitcoins! As such, I propose a new block chain..."
392 2011-06-02 08:04:40 <magnetron> there's some forum software which is accessible as NNTP
393 2011-06-02 08:05:12 <magnetron> can't remember the name
394 2011-06-02 08:05:22 <gjs278> how would people even connect to that
395 2011-06-02 08:05:31 <gjs278> without paying for a provider
396 2011-06-02 08:05:38 <magnetron> it's not on usenet
397 2011-06-02 08:05:49 <gjs278> oh ok
398 2011-06-02 08:05:55 <magnetron> you connect the the forum server via any NNTP client
399 2011-06-02 08:06:13 <magnetron> that was just one of the ways to access it, it had HTML/HTTP too
400 2011-06-02 08:12:12 <sipa> we could also use a subforum for suggesting new blockchains :)
401 2011-06-02 08:12:25 <BlueMatt> lol yea
402 2011-06-02 08:12:57 <BlueMatt> and one for "bitcoin has fatal flaw x"
403 2011-06-02 08:19:39 <BlueMatt> god xcompiling for mac looks like the biggest pita ever...apply this patch to gcc, now this one, now copy this folder and that from an osx install, now change this and that...simple, right?
404 2011-06-02 08:20:19 <mietek> Is there interest in a proper Cocoa native OS X client?
405 2011-06-02 08:20:47 <jav_irc> in any case.. I appreciate the work you guys do on the codebase a lot! ... among all the hype, it seems not too many people actually manage to sit down for a while and work on some of this stuff
406 2011-06-02 08:21:02 <BlueMatt> not on #bitcoin-dev, everyone here uses linux...but you can ask on #bitcoin or #bitcoin-otc
407 2011-06-02 08:26:24 <doublec> mietek: I'm sure a lot of people would like a proper Cocoa client
408 2011-06-02 08:26:43 <zamgo> proper = !thin ?
409 2011-06-02 08:27:20 <sipa> mietek: someone is working on a Qt GUI for bitcoin, i suppose that if that is done and merged, it will be easier to plug in other GUI's as well
410 2011-06-02 08:27:22 <BlueMatt> in this case it means using osx's native toolkit
411 2011-06-02 08:51:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: some exception thrown when exiting
412 2011-06-02 08:51:24 <sipa> that was you who fixed that, no?
413 2011-06-02 08:51:32 <BlueMatt> dont think so
414 2011-06-02 08:51:46 <BlueMatt> maybe, but I dont think so
415 2011-06-02 08:52:30 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/2f62b1299f1d2d8e56ff9096017b1f3835b41642
416 2011-06-02 08:52:51 <ne0futur> exit-bug ? i m interested, each time i close mi client its a crash
417 2011-06-02 08:53:05 <ne0futur> should be fixed in .21 ? or svn ?
418 2011-06-02 08:53:08 <BlueMatt> oh no, that is if you hit an error when sending
419 2011-06-02 08:53:32 <BlueMatt> not on exit
420 2011-06-02 08:53:36 <sipa> ah, ok
421 2011-06-02 08:53:56 <sipa> ne0futur: what version and OS?
422 2011-06-02 08:55:22 <ne0futur> allversions since 6 months more or less
423 2011-06-02 08:55:26 <ne0futur> currently .21
424 2011-06-02 08:55:53 <ne0futur> old ubuntu 32 bit
425 2011-06-02 08:56:04 <BlueMatt> have you tried .22 I dont think that will fix it, but you never know
426 2011-06-02 08:56:08 <BlueMatt> also, what error msg?
427 2011-06-02 08:56:22 <ne0futur> i launch it to get the crash at close
428 2011-06-02 08:56:26 <ne0futur> dont remember
429 2011-06-02 08:57:18 <basilfaulty> does anyone know genjix, or anyone at britcoin?
430 2011-06-02 08:59:53 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: http://pastebin.com/GbikVfR2
431 2011-06-02 09:00:09 <ne0futur> every time I close it
432 2011-06-02 09:00:25 <ne0futur> but no real problem, no corruption of data / wallet
433 2011-06-02 09:00:33 <BlueMatt> segfault...can you attack gdb?
434 2011-06-02 09:00:48 <BlueMatt> or your debugger of choice
435 2011-06-02 09:00:59 <ne0futur> i have gdb installed but have not used it for years
436 2011-06-02 09:01:10 <ne0futur> if you tell me exactly what to do it can do it
437 2011-06-02 09:01:47 <ne0futur> neofutur@t60:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
438 2011-06-02 09:01:56 <ne0futur> to be more exact on the os version
439 2011-06-02 09:02:28 <BlueMatt> gdb ./bitcoin
440 2011-06-02 09:02:30 <BlueMatt> wait a minute
441 2011-06-02 09:02:33 <BlueMatt> then type run
442 2011-06-02 09:02:59 <BlueMatt> bitcoin will be slow, but it might be more clear about the segfault
443 2011-06-02 09:04:24 <ne0futur> ok
444 2011-06-02 09:07:10 <ne0futur> now exiting from the dbg bitcoin
445 2011-06-02 09:08:04 <ne0futur> http://pastebin.com/kSeFE3z2
446 2011-06-02 09:08:24 <ne0futur> back to the gdb prompt
447 2011-06-02 09:08:35 <ne0futur> something i can do to dump symbols . . . ?
448 2011-06-02 09:09:06 <BlueMatt> backtrace
449 2011-06-02 09:09:34 <BlueMatt> is probably the most useful
450 2011-06-02 09:09:47 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
451 2011-06-02 09:09:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.969,"low":8.9,"vol":45623,"buy":9.55,"sell":9.641,"last":9.55}}
452 2011-06-02 09:12:16 <ne0futur> http://pastebin.com/8E4eFzxv
453 2011-06-02 09:12:30 <ne0futur> seems neverending . .  you need more ?
454 2011-06-02 09:12:44 <BlueMatt> oh god thats useless
455 2011-06-02 09:13:00 <ne0futur> i thought so
456 2011-06-02 09:13:09 <BlueMatt> seems to indicate infinite recursion
457 2011-06-02 09:13:17 <BlueMatt> until stack overflows or something
458 2011-06-02 09:13:21 <ne0futur> i was thinking of this
459 2011-06-02 09:13:42 <ne0futur> yes if I continue doing enter its neverending
460 2011-06-02 09:13:51 <BlueMatt> it has to end sometime
461 2011-06-02 09:13:55 <BlueMatt> but it might take a while...
462 2011-06-02 09:14:03 <ne0futur> reached #8946
463 2011-06-02 09:14:11 <ne0futur> ok i continue typing enter
464 2011-06-02 09:14:45 <ne0futur> always the same numbers
465 2011-06-02 09:15:04 <phantomcircuit> zomg fucking windows
466 2011-06-02 09:15:47 <ne0futur> #30000
467 2011-06-02 09:16:37 <ne0futur> i ll stop at 100000
468 2011-06-02 09:16:55 <BlueMatt> meh, no need just stop, if you havent found the end its probably not worth it
469 2011-06-02 09:17:49 <ne0futur> you could use a strace ?
470 2011-06-02 09:18:13 <ne0futur> yes #77578 and still the same 2 numbers
471 2011-06-02 09:18:44 <BlueMatt> yea maybe try a different tool like strace
472 2011-06-02 09:18:48 <ne0futur> ok
473 2011-06-02 09:21:01 <ne0futur> the kernel message is :
474 2011-06-02 09:21:02 <ne0futur> Jun  2 05:59:07 t60 kernel: [148813.570627] bitcoin[10705]: segfault at bf423ff4 ip 082075e6 sp bf423ff0 error 6 in bitcoin[8048000+7a0000]
475 2011-06-02 09:21:15 <ne0futur> still waiting for the strace
476 2011-06-02 09:24:42 <ne0futur> http://pastebin.com/XJgvTKMP
477 2011-06-02 09:24:51 <ne0futur> end of the strace
478 2011-06-02 09:25:02 <ne0futur> i can give you more / the complete trace if it can be useful
479 2011-06-02 09:25:26 <ne0futur> i ve put only the end but there are thousands of gettimeofday before
480 2011-06-02 09:26:06 <BlueMatt> yea...
481 2011-06-02 09:26:09 <BlueMatt> hm...
482 2011-06-02 09:26:41 <ne0futur> ok i do  strace  ./bitcoin 1>a 2>b
483 2011-06-02 09:26:49 <ne0futur> and will upload the results to a server
484 2011-06-02 09:27:27 <BlueMatt> meh no need
485 2011-06-02 09:27:49 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
486 2011-06-02 09:27:56 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":10,"low":8.9,"vol":49458,"buy":9.9501,"sell":10,"last":9.9501}}
487 2011-06-02 09:28:03 <ne0futur> if you love strange bugs i have 2 others ;)
488 2011-06-02 09:28:15 <BlueMatt> not sure what is going on there for you...not sure Im the right person to be debugging this either
489 2011-06-02 09:28:20 <ne0futur> this one is on my ubuntu laptop but I also have one on gentoo hardened / grsec
490 2011-06-02 09:28:30 <ne0futur> and one only on gentoo multilib
491 2011-06-02 09:29:06 <ne0futur> complete strace is 3.8 MB
492 2011-06-02 09:29:13 <io_error> 10.05
493 2011-06-02 09:29:17 <BlueMatt> my god
494 2011-06-02 09:29:29 <ne0futur> there is still no bugreport tool apart a forum thread ?
495 2011-06-02 09:29:41 <BlueMatt> github
496 2011-06-02 09:30:08 <ne0futur> hum ok
497 2011-06-02 09:30:40 <io_error> BlueMatt: 10.22
498 2011-06-02 09:30:51 <BlueMatt> io_error: ?
499 2011-06-02 09:30:54 <ne0futur> any url for this "exit-bug" you were talking of ?
500 2011-06-02 09:31:02 <io_error> BlueMatt: mtgox
501 2011-06-02 09:31:02 <ne0futur> (12:48) <      sipa> BlueMatt: is this related to the exit-bug you fixed some time ago:
502 2011-06-02 09:31:15 <ne0futur> yup we gone past 10.5 ;)
503 2011-06-02 09:31:30 <BlueMatt> oh mtgox price, hot damn
504 2011-06-02 09:31:33 <ne0futur> i won my bet ;)
505 2011-06-02 09:31:37 <BlueMatt> 11
506 2011-06-02 09:31:44 <BlueMatt> (on bcm)
507 2011-06-02 09:32:04 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
508 2011-06-02 09:32:18 <ne0futur> 11.8 on bcm
509 2011-06-02 09:32:25 <io_error> 10.40
510 2011-06-02 09:32:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":10.44,"low":8.9,"vol":51558,"buy":10.1092,"sell":10.23,"last":10.4}}
511 2011-06-02 09:35:14 <zamgo> hmmm
512 2011-06-02 09:35:23 <zamgo> lots of buying pressure
513 2011-06-02 09:36:28 <BlueMatt> hey recovered my wallet and all its txes
514 2011-06-02 09:36:46 <BlueMatt> now to pull req the changes I made to bitcointools to do it...
515 2011-06-02 09:37:57 <helmut> I asked https://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/ for some coins about 3 hours ago, but they still didn't arrive. is this to be considered normal?
516 2011-06-02 09:39:02 <io_error> helmut: Only if nobody's mining on testnet, which often happens
517 2011-06-02 09:39:28 <helmut> io_error: oh. that is easy to fix for me :-)
518 2011-06-02 10:04:22 <thermal> just got bitcoin to compile under win7. time to check out the issues list :)
519 2011-06-02 10:04:57 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,gen 775000
520 2011-06-02 10:05:09 <ZOP> jebus, i go to bed and bitcoin shoots up over $10!
521 2011-06-02 10:05:18 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
522 2011-06-02 10:05:25 <mtrlt> even gribble is flabbergasted
523 2011-06-02 10:07:32 <helmut> io_error: hmm. even though the difficulty is only 78, i cannot seem to find any blocks. :-(
524 2011-06-02 10:07:52 <io_error> helmut: 78?!?!?!?!? HOLYCRAP, last time I looked it was 12
525 2011-06-02 10:07:55 <helmut> io_error: the calculator says about 4 minutes which has passed about 10 times now.
526 2011-06-02 10:08:14 <io_error> helmut: Throw a GPU at it
527 2011-06-02 10:08:24 <zamgo> testnet is alive?
528 2011-06-02 10:08:39 <io_error> zamgo: Sometimes
529 2011-06-02 10:08:42 <helmut> neither cuda nor opencl works on nouveau
530 2011-06-02 10:09:16 <zamgo> start bitcoind -testnet -rpcuser=tst -rpcpassword=test
531 2011-06-02 10:09:18 <zamgo> we'll lfind out
532 2011-06-02 10:09:42 <zamgo> oops! wrong user!  ' test'
533 2011-06-02 10:09:51 <anarchyx> congrats we crossed the 10!
534 2011-06-02 10:09:55 <anarchyx> 100 next!
535 2011-06-02 10:12:35 <helmut> something else is wrong on with my way of using testnet
536 2011-06-02 10:13:04 <helmut> I grepped the debug log and I can see the height rising, so the testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com transactions should have arrived.
537 2011-06-02 10:13:20 <helmut> but they didn't
538 2011-06-02 10:13:33 <zamgo> mining testnet... at whopping 9 mhash
539 2011-06-02 10:14:12 <doublec> helmut: you could use the namecoin network for testing
540 2011-06-02 10:14:12 <helmut> might be easier for me to get some "real" virtual money and test with that...
541 2011-06-02 10:14:21 <zamgo> hehe.. doublec:  I do that :)
542 2011-06-02 10:14:22 <doublec> helmut: plenty of people mining, same rpc interface as bitcoin
543 2011-06-02 10:14:28 <doublec> zamgo: me too :)
544 2011-06-02 10:14:31 <zamgo> it's very good idea
545 2011-06-02 10:14:36 <doublec> helmut: and coins are easy to get
546 2011-06-02 10:14:37 <zamgo> and namecoind testnet now also
547 2011-06-02 10:15:06 <zamgo> namecoin testnet.. difficulty 1
548 2011-06-02 10:15:24 <doublec> even using the live namecoin network is fine since difficulty is relatively low
549 2011-06-02 10:15:59 <Archevety> are all active bitcoin nodes present in the lfnet #bitcoinXX channels?
550 2011-06-02 10:16:12 <zamgo> true dat
551 2011-06-02 10:16:42 <helmut> Archevety: no. quite some people will have noirc=1 set
552 2011-06-02 10:18:20 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
553 2011-06-02 10:19:18 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
554 2011-06-02 10:28:48 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
555 2011-06-02 10:28:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":10.57,"low":8.9,"vol":52728,"buy":10.381,"sell":10.45,"last":10.45}}
556 2011-06-02 10:29:54 <bnzdg> ;;bc,help
557 2011-06-02 10:29:55 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btceur, Alias bc,btcgbp, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,btcrub, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,convert, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,diffchange, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,interval, Alias (1 more message)
558 2011-06-02 10:33:20 <ne0futur> ;;bc.stats
559 2011-06-02 10:33:21 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
560 2011-06-02 10:33:23 <ne0futur> ;;bc,stats
561 2011-06-02 10:33:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128163 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 860 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 2 hours, 18 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 517866.52619441
562 2011-06-02 10:45:45 <diki> I am getting annoyed by this small warning message to purchase mirc...i can't stand i might as well NOP it
563 2011-06-02 10:45:59 <phantomcircuit> diki, xchat
564 2011-06-02 10:46:01 <phantomcircuit> enjoy
565 2011-06-02 10:46:08 <diki> it's not to my liking
566 2011-06-02 10:46:23 <phantomcircuit> also good luck 0x90'ing the warning message
567 2011-06-02 10:46:35 <phantomcircuit> he's spent years fighting cracks to 0x90 it
568 2011-06-02 10:46:47 <diki> even if he spends 100 or 1000
569 2011-06-02 10:46:49 <diki> not gonna work
570 2011-06-02 10:47:12 <phantomcircuit> unless you can find a pre built crack it's not worth the effort
571 2011-06-02 10:47:43 <diki> there are some flying here and there
572 2011-06-02 10:48:28 <diki> Anywho, first i need to make bitcoind send me the date when proof of work has been found
573 2011-06-02 10:48:52 <diki> im trying with pointers on this one
574 2011-06-02 10:51:52 <io_error> People still use mirc?
575 2011-06-02 10:52:10 <diki> people dont use mirc...oh wait, it's windows-only ^^
576 2011-06-02 10:52:31 <zamgo> ircII
577 2011-06-02 10:52:38 <zamgo> go old skool!
578 2011-06-02 10:52:40 <io_error> diki: Wait... you want the date...when proof of work was found...?!
579 2011-06-02 10:52:54 <diki> oh fucking yeah io
580 2011-06-02 10:52:59 <diki> :)
581 2011-06-02 10:53:26 <io_error> diki: But that's stored in every block!
582 2011-06-02 10:53:28 <phantomcircuit> io_error, lol you realize that there is a timestamp in the block heaader?
583 2011-06-02 10:53:31 <diki> that was not meant as an insult
584 2011-06-02 10:53:39 <io_error> phantomcircuit: Of course I know it
585 2011-06-02 10:53:40 <phantomcircuit> er
586 2011-06-02 10:53:48 <phantomcircuit> io_error, hehe
587 2011-06-02 10:54:08 <io_error> Bitcoin is, of course, at its core a P2P time server!
588 2011-06-02 10:54:17 <phantomcircuit> uh no it isn't
589 2011-06-02 10:54:22 <phantomcircuit> it's a distributed notary bro
590 2011-06-02 10:54:26 <io_error> er, I think I didn't explain that right
591 2011-06-02 10:55:17 <diki> afaics there is no such thing
592 2011-06-02 10:55:30 <io_error> diki: Eh? It's right in front of you
593 2011-06-02 10:55:39 <diki> nope ;)
594 2011-06-02 10:55:40 <sipa> it is a timestamping system
595 2011-06-02 10:55:45 <io_error> bitcoind getblockbycount 128164 | less
596 2011-06-02 10:56:14 <diki> yeah well, there is no way for the pool to know the current block we solved
597 2011-06-02 10:56:24 <diki> so i am passing the date to the JSONRPCReply function
598 2011-06-02 10:56:25 <io_error> bitcoind getblockbycount 128164 | grep -w time
599 2011-06-02 10:56:48 <diki> which will send info in json format to pushpool i can parse
600 2011-06-02 10:56:50 <io_error> diki: Huh? Your pool doesn't know that you solved a block?!
601 2011-06-02 10:57:09 <diki> the front-end doesnt know the confirmations
602 2011-06-02 10:57:26 <io_error> Surely the front-end knows something useful, like the block number?
603 2011-06-02 10:57:27 <diki> as there is no way for me to know which txid to look at
604 2011-06-02 10:57:33 <diki> nope
605 2011-06-02 10:57:55 <phantomcircuit> sipa, no it really isn't
606 2011-06-02 10:58:06 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's an append only distributed notary
607 2011-06-02 10:58:38 <io_error> Um, point being, every block has a timestamp that the network more-or-less entirely agrees on.
608 2011-06-02 10:59:00 <diki> when CheckWork = true, i get the timestamp which is in unix format
609 2011-06-02 10:59:15 <diki> every pool operator found a way to identify the transactions so did i
610 2011-06-02 10:59:16 <zamgo> bitcoind getblockbycount ?
611 2011-06-02 10:59:27 <diki> getblockbycount can fail
612 2011-06-02 10:59:28 <zamgo> that in latest bitcoind?
613 2011-06-02 10:59:37 <diki> can and will fail
614 2011-06-02 10:59:50 <sipa> no, not yet
615 2011-06-02 10:59:52 <diki> there is this small lag between bitcoind and pushpool
616 2011-06-02 10:59:58 <zamgo> error: {"code":-32601,"message":"Method not found"}
617 2011-06-02 11:00:06 <sipa> maybe in 0.4.0
618 2011-06-02 11:00:08 <diki> and getblockbycount needs to be executed server side
619 2011-06-02 11:00:21 <diki> meaning more lag which could mean a couple of more blocks being solved by then
620 2011-06-02 11:01:21 <diki> so getblockbycount returns a block number, but not the one we just solved..
621 2011-06-02 11:01:36 <diki> So it's basically a fail-safe
622 2011-06-02 11:01:43 <diki> a more accurate one at least
623 2011-06-02 11:02:25 <gmaxwell> Why do you need the block number in the frontend?
624 2011-06-02 11:02:44 <gmaxwell> You know the block header hash&
625 2011-06-02 11:02:48 <diki> I dont, but it at least lets you know which block you just genned
626 2011-06-02 11:02:55 <diki> and slush did it so...
627 2011-06-02 11:02:56 <gmaxwell> ^
628 2011-06-02 11:03:11 <phantomcircuit> <diki> I dont
629 2011-06-02 11:03:32 <diki> if i need it it will be purely for stats nothing more nothing less
630 2011-06-02 11:04:16 <gmaxwell> diki: since you know the block header hash there isn't any risk of confusing it, you can just look it up based on that.
631 2011-06-02 11:04:32 <diki> i have it in raw format i.e the share
632 2011-06-02 11:04:43 <diki> not the actualy hash that is shown on blockexplorer
633 2011-06-02 11:05:14 <gmaxwell> Presumably you've checked the share to make sure it meets the difficulty...
634 2011-06-02 11:05:23 <diki> I dont
635 2011-06-02 11:05:27 <diki> that is pushpool's job
636 2011-06-02 11:05:50 <sipa> ;;bc,nethash
637 2011-06-02 11:05:53 <gribble> 3869.6525518043441
638 2011-06-02 11:06:12 <BlueMatt> why does it seem like there is no good general guide to recovering wallets?
639 2011-06-02 11:06:15 <gmaxwell> Well then, modify pushpool to log it. (Though I thought it logged shares already&)
640 2011-06-02 11:06:23 <diki> i never said it didnt log shares
641 2011-06-02 11:06:27 <diki> it logs them
642 2011-06-02 11:06:38 <diki> just not some kind of ID for looking up txes via listtransactions
643 2011-06-02 11:07:13 <diki> which is what i am working on
644 2011-06-02 11:07:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: so, which yml file do i need to use for building 0.3.22?
645 2011-06-02 11:07:52 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the normal failure mode for bdb is a partially zerod out file
646 2011-06-02 11:07:57 <io_error> BlueMatt: Because there are already several good guides on backing up wallets
647 2011-06-02 11:08:19 <BlueMatt> ok, well Im gonna go write one using bitcointools
648 2011-06-02 11:08:34 <BlueMatt> even with a partially zeroed file it should still be able to read some privkeys and such
649 2011-06-02 11:08:35 <diki> my wallet is most of the time empty
650 2011-06-02 11:08:40 <diki> so i dont do backups ;)
651 2011-06-02 11:08:52 <gmaxwell> diki: you can look up by id with bitcointools and there are patches IIRC that let you do that on a running database.
652 2011-06-02 11:09:00 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you would probably need to write a bdb file parser to recover most corrupted wallets
653 2011-06-02 11:09:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: TheBlueMatt/gitian0.3.22 contrib/gitian.yml and put the two patches that are also in contrib/ into gitian-builder/inputs
654 2011-06-02 11:09:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: someone already did that, i believe
655 2011-06-02 11:09:07 <diki> never heard of bitcointools
656 2011-06-02 11:09:19 <sipa> scan for things that look like private keys
657 2011-06-02 11:10:00 <diki> gmax:that might be what i need
658 2011-06-02 11:10:53 <bitanarchy> when will client v 3.22 be ready?
659 2011-06-02 11:10:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you find a link?
660 2011-06-02 11:11:43 <diki> gmax:someone should have said sooner about that thing. If it does what i want it to do, it saves me any further recompilation of bitcoinD
661 2011-06-02 11:12:39 <gmaxwell> It doesn't save you that, since I think you need patched to bitcoind in order to use bitcointools without shutting down bitcoind.
662 2011-06-02 11:13:12 <diki> argh...
663 2011-06-02 11:13:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: it's a bit of a mess, i need your gitian0.3.22 branch, devrandom's bitcoin-release, the upstream repo's 0.3.22rc6 tag, and gitian-builder?
664 2011-06-02 11:14:07 <BlueMatt> you dont need bitcoin-release, thats just to check
665 2011-06-02 11:14:10 <BlueMatt> but yea...its a mess
666 2011-06-02 11:14:26 <BlueMatt> I didnt feel like commiting wx patches to the bitcoin repo would be a good idea though...
667 2011-06-02 11:14:58 <roconnor> Hi, anyone understand the purpose behind having subscripts in scripts?
668 2011-06-02 11:15:42 <diki> gmax:welp, back to recompiling bitcoinD
669 2011-06-02 11:18:40 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, so you can script while you're scripting your scripts
670 2011-06-02 11:18:47 <roconnor> :)
671 2011-06-02 11:19:24 <gribble> Error: This nick is not registered. Please register.
672 2011-06-02 11:19:24 <kish> ;;auth phantomcircuit
673 2011-06-02 11:20:00 <kish> can i query you, phantomcircuit?
674 2011-06-02 11:20:19 <sipa> roconnor: no idea what you mean
675 2011-06-02 11:20:27 <phantomcircuit> kish, yes
676 2011-06-02 11:22:13 <roconnor> sipa: when checking signatures you trim off the script and the subscript marker  and etc..
677 2011-06-02 11:22:24 <roconnor> er
678 2011-06-02 11:22:27 <sipa> ah, right
679 2011-06-02 11:22:29 <roconnor> OP_CODESEPARATOR
680 2011-06-02 11:22:38 <roconnor> I'm trying to understand the motivation for this
681 2011-06-02 11:22:42 <roconnor> it might help me code it better
682 2011-06-02 11:22:42 <sipa> yes, i've read about it, but can't remember
683 2011-06-02 11:23:15 <phantomcircuit> something about escrow or something
684 2011-06-02 11:23:26 <roconnor> I find it strange that it is from the recent OP_CODESCRIPT to the end of the script instead of the next OP_CODESCRIPT.
685 2011-06-02 11:24:02 <phantomcircuit> personally i like how the script is cut off at OP_CODESEPARATOR and yet OP_CODESEPARATOR is explicitly removed from the script in SignatureHash
686 2011-06-02 11:24:03 <phantomcircuit> lulz
687 2011-06-02 11:24:42 <roconnor> *OP_CODESEPARATOR
688 2011-06-02 11:25:09 <roconnor> phantomcircuit: it seems so random to me :D
689 2011-06-02 11:31:02 <galaxyAbstractor> hey
690 2011-06-02 11:31:27 <galaxyAbstractor> does the bitcoin client have to run as a server for the JSON-RPC API to be available?
691 2011-06-02 11:31:40 <sipa> either bitcoind, or bitcoin -server
692 2011-06-02 11:31:44 <mtrlt> i'd assume so
693 2011-06-02 11:31:58 <galaxyAbstractor> so it won't work with just bitcoin running?
694 2011-06-02 11:32:02 <sipa> no
695 2011-06-02 11:32:06 <galaxyAbstractor> aw shit
696 2011-06-02 11:32:07 <galaxyAbstractor> lol
697 2011-06-02 11:32:13 <sipa> why? just run it -server
698 2011-06-02 11:32:50 <galaxyAbstractor> well I am creating a firefox addon to make payments, and the users would know that they have to start the client as a server?
699 2011-06-02 11:33:22 <TommyBoy006> no
700 2011-06-02 11:33:34 <iz> so if i want to find the btc balance of a bitcoin address that doesn't belong to me.. i can just walk the entire block chain and add up all the transactions that match that address, right?  is that the fastest/only way?
701 2011-06-02 11:34:42 <roconnor> iz: that is the way your client finds out the btc balance of your addresses
702 2011-06-02 11:34:53 <galaxyAbstractor> Can you run both a client and a server?
703 2011-06-02 11:35:04 <roconnor> (less of course the transactions your address spends)
704 2011-06-02 11:35:48 <iz> ah.. but it can keep a running total for your addresses, so it doesn't have to start at the start of the chain each time..
705 2011-06-02 11:36:44 <iz> if it's an arbitrary addr.. gotta start at the first block and go all the way to the end to get the right total
706 2011-06-02 11:37:00 <scott`> ;;bc-stats
707 2011-06-02 11:37:01 <gribble> Error: "bc-stats" is not a valid command.
708 2011-06-02 11:37:23 <iz> cool, ty roconnor
709 2011-06-02 11:38:24 <genjix> lol verack is totally useless
710 2011-06-02 11:39:29 <scott`> ;;bc,stats
711 2011-06-02 11:39:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128172 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 851 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 16 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 518323.54220997
712 2011-06-02 11:41:46 <sipa> iz: it does not keep a running total
713 2011-06-02 11:42:11 <sipa> and in general you cannot even assign a balance to an addreas
714 2011-06-02 11:42:42 <sipa> the client works by keeping a list of transactions that involve you
715 2011-06-02 11:43:47 <iz> ah, i see
716 2011-06-02 11:44:09 <iz> that's why you can't use getbalance to get the balance of an arbitrary addr that doesn't involve you
717 2011-06-02 11:44:47 <sipa> blockexplorer does it anyway, btw
718 2011-06-02 11:45:20 <iz> yeah, i was trying to think if there was a way to cache all the info needed to check a addr balance offline
719 2011-06-02 11:46:05 <BlueMatt> where is bitcoin folder on osx?
720 2011-06-02 11:46:44 <iz> what if there was a addr lockout transaction?  like that says this addr cannot spend bitcoins for X blocks..
721 2011-06-02 11:46:52 <phantomcircuit> im getting 0 peers from dnsseed
722 2011-06-02 11:46:54 <phantomcircuit> weirdness
723 2011-06-02 11:47:59 <iz> so then an offline vendor could look at an incomplete block chain (in an offline cache), and verify it's balance and also that the priv key owner can't try to double spend from it for X blocks
724 2011-06-02 11:49:05 <iz> ahh.. i guess then it would just be a race after X blocks to use it..
725 2011-06-02 11:53:24 <MasterChief> can anyone comment on spideroak?
726 2011-06-02 11:53:42 <MasterChief> they claim all crypto is done on your machine
727 2011-06-02 11:54:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: checksums still don't match
728 2011-06-02 11:55:02 <edcba> what is spideroak ?
729 2011-06-02 11:55:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: but the sha256 sum of the gitian file i used starts with c99d87
730 2011-06-02 11:55:18 <sipa> BlueMatt: seems you used a different one?
731 2011-06-02 11:55:52 <Diablo-D3> http://www.quora.com/Is-the-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-a-good-idea/answer/Adam-Cohen-2
732 2011-06-02 11:55:53 <Diablo-D3> wow
733 2011-06-02 11:55:58 <Diablo-D3> thats the funniest troll Ive read in years
734 2011-06-02 11:56:20 <Diablo-D3> bonus points for all the faux research too
735 2011-06-02 11:57:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, according to the build.assert in bitcoin-release the bitcoin-desc.yml line says c99d8
736 2011-06-02 11:58:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: https://github.com/devrandom/bitcoin-release/blob/master/0.3.22/Matt%20Corallo/bitcoin-build.assert
737 2011-06-02 11:58:41 <sipa> c459978c7d7fadd2ce654b5c1af88d6862fa84aa422244cb2b580f63bb556ea9  src/contrib/gitian.yml
738 2011-06-02 11:58:56 <BlueMatt> no that is the file that is in bitcoin, not the one used
739 2011-06-02 11:58:59 <BlueMatt> scroll down for the one used
740 2011-06-02 11:59:06 <BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> scroll down for th
741 2011-06-02 11:59:11 <BlueMatt> c99d87a04ec0fea3e959527ce9195c70f7a499f76a3bdb4497a50763a262c0ae  bitcoin-desc.yml
742 2011-06-02 11:59:17 <sipa> oh ok
743 2011-06-02 11:59:23 <BlueMatt> check the in_manifest that everything is the same as yours
744 2011-06-02 11:59:33 <BlueMatt> and then see where your build went wrong
745 2011-06-02 11:59:43 <BlueMatt> (what files)
746 2011-06-02 12:00:01 <sipa> wait, i was looking at the wrong file
747 2011-06-02 12:03:02 <edcba> MasterChief: i fail to see how using pdkdf2 salted prevent a bruteforce attack against the key
748 2011-06-02 12:03:19 <edcba> https://spideroak.com/engineering_matters
749 2011-06-02 12:03:52 <MasterChief> what do you mean
750 2011-06-02 12:04:14 <phantomcircuit> edcba, it significantly increases the time to run a single hash instant
751 2011-06-02 12:04:16 <phantomcircuit> instance
752 2011-06-02 12:07:40 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Pieter Wuille master * rb49c0c9 / (2 files): my build report + signature - http://bit.ly/k11qCu
753 2011-06-02 12:07:57 <BlueMatt> yay :)
754 2011-06-02 12:08:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: OK, OK, OK
755 2011-06-02 12:08:21 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, dnsseed is broken
756 2011-06-02 12:08:22 <MasterChief> so spideroak is not good?
757 2011-06-02 12:08:32 <sipa> phantomcircuit: explain
758 2011-06-02 12:08:34 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: what is broken about it?
759 2011-06-02 12:08:43 <phantomcircuit> i consistently get 0 addresses
760 2011-06-02 12:09:02 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: wait what dnsseed, you mean -dnsseed or my dnsseed script?
761 2011-06-02 12:09:28 <phantomcircuit> -dnsseed
762 2011-06-02 12:09:33 <phantomcircuit> has it always been broken?
763 2011-06-02 12:09:39 <BlueMatt> no, it should work
764 2011-06-02 12:10:37 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: hm, well do you already have an addr.dat?
765 2011-06-02 12:12:12 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yes so it works, but thats bad stuff that it doesn't get any addrs
766 2011-06-02 12:12:16 <sipa> Loading addresses from DNS seeds (could take a while)
767 2011-06-02 12:12:20 <sipa> that explains
768 2011-06-02 12:12:36 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah that
769 2011-06-02 12:12:38 <BlueMatt> how does that work, I just checked both seeds via dig
770 2011-06-02 12:13:04 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the dns works, the bitcoin code to get the addrs doesn't
771 2011-06-02 12:13:13 <phantomcircuit> and taking a look at LookUp it's not particularly surprising
772 2011-06-02 12:13:19 <BlueMatt> wow, did no one check it before commiting?
773 2011-06-02 12:13:25 <edcba> MasterChief: seems ok but if you really want to be sure about it you need some opensource client :)
774 2011-06-02 12:13:56 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, it would appear so
775 2011-06-02 12:14:01 <phantomcircuit> unit tests lulz
776 2011-06-02 12:14:42 <sipa> ah crap
777 2011-06-02 12:14:47 <[Tycho]> How this DNS seeds system works ?
778 2011-06-02 12:15:19 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk has addrs for working nodes
779 2011-06-02 12:15:21 <sipa> bah, another mistake of mine, it seems
780 2011-06-02 12:15:34 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ill fix it
781 2011-06-02 12:15:49 <sipa> not sure how i missed it, i went over all invokations a few times :s
782 2011-06-02 12:16:02 <phantomcircuit> well except i have no idea what all the arguments are supposed to do
783 2011-06-02 12:16:12 <phantomcircuit> fAllowLookup?
784 2011-06-02 12:16:21 <sipa> allow lookup of names
785 2011-06-02 12:16:21 <[Tycho]> phantomcircuit, can't it be taken down ?
786 2011-06-02 12:16:34 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], yes just as much as irc can be
787 2011-06-02 12:18:01 <phantomcircuit> ((2^32/4000) * 0.5)/2
788 2011-06-02 12:18:59 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: much less than irc can, we can have 30 dns names to lookup, but we only have 1 irc server, and adding more is a ton of overhead
789 2011-06-02 12:19:13 <sipa> phantomcircuit: fixed, i'm testing it again
790 2011-06-02 12:19:30 <phantomcircuit> sipa, what was the fix?
791 2011-06-02 12:19:41 <sipa> add an argument nMaxSolutions