1 2011-06-08 00:00:02 <Hardwarez> thanx
  2 2011-06-08 00:07:04 <ultrafluf> ahoy!
  3 2011-06-08 00:07:15 <ultrafluf> long list
  4 2011-06-08 00:07:22 <ajvpot> iz, nothing
  5 2011-06-08 00:08:21 <ultrafluf> so if anyone that knows something about the bootstrapping in the bitcoin node client has a moment i have a question conserning lfnet
  6 2011-06-08 00:10:50 <ultrafluf> :(
  7 2011-06-08 00:11:24 <ultrafluf> o.o
  8 2011-06-08 00:12:33 <ajvpot> WOOT NETSPLIT
  9 2011-06-08 00:15:02 <[Tycho]> ;;seen MagicalTux
 10 2011-06-08 00:15:15 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: on a Qt client, not C#
 11 2011-06-08 00:16:39 <fizario> how does the client know it received cash?   If this is the script it just has a Hash160 of the recipients public key:   "scriptPubKey":"OP_DUP OP_HASH160 32ca2d9d24ad2668833f8e3d684245c0baa206dd OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG"
 12 2011-06-08 00:17:00 <fizario> does the client go around comparing its hash160(publickey) to every tx?
 13 2011-06-08 00:17:46 <fizario> i dont see where the recipient's address is in the tx
 14 2011-06-08 00:17:57 <fizario> its just a bunch of scripts
 15 2011-06-08 00:21:49 <fizario> is blockexplorer showing the whole tx
 16 2011-06-08 00:30:31 <ultrafluf> anyone?
 17 2011-06-08 00:30:32 <ultrafluf> >.>
 18 2011-06-08 00:33:22 <justmoon> ultrafluf: don't ask about asking, just ask your question
 19 2011-06-08 00:34:37 <forrestv> fizario, the script includes the recipient's address
 20 2011-06-08 00:34:50 <forrestv> so yes, it does go around comparing
 21 2011-06-08 00:35:24 <ultrafluf> well
 22 2011-06-08 00:35:27 <ultrafluf> the thing is
 23 2011-06-08 00:35:37 <ultrafluf> my isp just banned me because lfnet is blacklisted
 24 2011-06-08 00:36:05 <ajvpot> lol wat?
 25 2011-06-08 00:36:06 <ultrafluf> took me a while to get note from them what caused them to consider me invaded
 26 2011-06-08 00:36:07 <ajvpot> blacklisted?
 27 2011-06-08 00:36:25 <ultrafluf> the irc connection to irc.lfnet.org made my isp cut me off
 28 2011-06-08 00:36:54 <ajvpot> niiiiice
 29 2011-06-08 00:36:56 <ultrafluf> they use filters from shadowserver and honeypot project
 30 2011-06-08 00:37:22 <ultrafluf> so if someone reported the bots or used lfnet.org as a master just to get ppl using bitcoin in trouble .. it worked
 31 2011-06-08 00:37:39 <ultrafluf> i was really wtf' for a moment
 32 2011-06-08 00:37:59 <ultrafluf> when my internet stopped working all together :(
 33 2011-06-08 00:38:11 <doublec> ultrafluf: gmaxwell mentioned here yesterday that traffic to the irc channel was dropped by his ISP
 34 2011-06-08 00:38:15 <doublec> ultrafluf: it's also dropped by mine
 35 2011-06-08 00:38:44 <doublec> ultrafluf: the conjecture at the time was the at the server was under a DDOS
 36 2011-06-08 00:38:55 <ajvpot> echo "noirc=1" > ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
 37 2011-06-08 00:38:55 <ultrafluf> well they cut me off completely but i am getting it back now :)
 38 2011-06-08 00:38:58 <luke-jr> holy crap
 39 2011-06-08 00:39:00 <ultrafluf> yes i've done that
 40 2011-06-08 00:39:04 <luke-jr> that is a big problem
 41 2011-06-08 00:39:09 <luke-jr> ultrafluf: what hoops did you need to jump through?
 42 2011-06-08 00:39:28 <ultrafluf> well they have a security subnet which they put me in
 43 2011-06-08 00:39:34 <ultrafluf> where you can just google and look on their website
 44 2011-06-08 00:39:52 <ultrafluf> i'm using gprs now xD
 45 2011-06-08 00:40:12 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 46 2011-06-08 00:40:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129300 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1739 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 33 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 685883.67468188
 47 2011-06-08 00:40:41 <ultrafluf> i hope they put me back in normal internet tomorrow :/
 48 2011-06-08 00:41:54 <fizario> oh ok forrestv makes sense
 49 2011-06-08 00:42:05 <ultrafluf> took them an evening to reply to me because they initially just informed me that i was connecting to a botmaster net a lot with some encyclopedia entry what that ment
 50 2011-06-08 00:42:10 <doublec> ultrafluf: who is your ISP?
 51 2011-06-08 00:42:12 <fizario> can you have multiple scriptPubKeys i wonder
 52 2011-06-08 00:42:13 <ultrafluf> and i had to ask them to tell me
 53 2011-06-08 00:42:24 <ultrafluf> its a private edu net
 54 2011-06-08 00:42:49 <forrestv> fizario, what do you mean by that?
 55 2011-06-08 00:42:49 <rusty> Dumb q: is there a TODO somewhere?
 56 2011-06-08 00:43:11 <fizario> if you want to run multiple scripts
 57 2011-06-08 00:43:29 <fizario> i guess you just put everything in the same stack
 58 2011-06-08 00:44:16 <ultrafluf> but anyway it's something recent cuz i didn't have problems last week and i am sure my client has some nodes in memory but i thought it might be handy for you ppl to know :)
 59 2011-06-08 00:47:33 <ultrafluf> fckers had me worried i was compromised all night :/
 60 2011-06-08 00:50:08 <rusty> Or should I just read through the code and look for random things to clean up?  (I'm on Linux, of course)
 61 2011-06-08 00:51:10 <luke-jr> rusty: Spesmilo is always happy for more developers too :D
 62 2011-06-08 00:51:25 <luke-jr> rusty: the original client is kinda a mess
 63 2011-06-08 00:52:04 <rusty> luke-jr: that's OK, I'm pretty familiar with FOSS "kind of a mess" projects ;)
 64 2011-06-08 00:52:50 <luke-jr> rusty: newer clients have much better potential for the future IMO
 65 2011-06-08 00:54:06 <hacim> i wrote a man page for the debian package, its pretty decent, and I wanted to propose it be included in the bitcoin source
 66 2011-06-08 00:54:11 <fizario> why not obscure recipient addresses by default. HASH160(recipient_pubkey + some_salt)
 67 2011-06-08 00:54:15 <hacim> is there a place where i should submit it?
 68 2011-06-08 00:54:21 <_Maru_> can we have the slogan "In bits we trust."?
 69 2011-06-08 00:54:22 <rusty> hacim: want me to proof read?
 70 2011-06-08 00:54:37 <hacim> rusty: patches are welcome!
 71 2011-06-08 00:54:51 <rusty> hacim: url?
 72 2011-06-08 00:55:02 <hacim> rusty: its in the debian package
 73 2011-06-08 00:55:03 <luke-jr> _Maru_: no
 74 2011-06-08 00:55:28 <hacim> i can probably find a gitweb url
 75 2011-06-08 00:55:47 <hacim> rusty: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/bitcoin.git;a=commit;h=77eb7948fd8a7901d7d731d004e9154d9f0270d7
 76 2011-06-08 00:55:49 <_Maru_> lol
 77 2011-06-08 01:02:33 <rusty> hacim: ok.  bitcoind.1: first line is a bit wrong "bitcoind - peer-to-peer network based anonymous digital currency".
 78 2011-06-08 01:03:18 <hacim> rusty: do you have a suggested re-wording?
 79 2011-06-08 01:04:24 <rusty> hacim: ok, well, the man page is bitcoind, but the command you're describing is bitcoin... so "a client for the bitcoin peer-to-peer currency network" ?
 80 2011-06-08 01:04:37 <Kireji> what are these mandatory fee errors I keep seeing people mention?   is there a wiki page that covers fees for too many small transactions?
 81 2011-06-08 01:06:37 <hacim> rusty: actually the command is 'bitcoind'
 82 2011-06-08 01:06:53 <rusty> hacim: then the synopsis is wrong :)
 83 2011-06-08 01:07:05 <Kireji> Most miners seem to implement this policy. So it's already happening that many free transactions are not managing to enter any block.
 84 2011-06-08 01:07:08 <Kireji> This is being discussed on other topics right now.
 85 2011-06-08 01:07:19 <Kireji> <--   quote from http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3999.0
 86 2011-06-08 01:07:27 <JFK911> so what should users do about this
 87 2011-06-08 01:08:59 <hacim> rusty: you are right!
 88 2011-06-08 01:09:23 <rusty> hacim: sometimes it helps to have an idiot read it, see? :)
 89 2011-06-08 01:09:48 <hacim> :D
 90 2011-06-08 01:10:57 <Kireji> can someone comment on free transaction processing time vs. fees?  are fees required for practical use?
 91 2011-06-08 01:15:38 <hacim> Kireji: I've tried to sort that out myself, but was unable to
 92 2011-06-08 01:15:41 <rusty> hacim: OK, you should either move the *bitcoin* description to an ABOUT BITCOIN section, or just refer ("For information about bitcoin, see http://bitcoin.org").
 93 2011-06-08 01:16:40 <hacim> rusty: you mean the second paragraph of the description that starts with "Bitcoins can be sent easily through the Internet, without..." ?
 94 2011-06-08 01:16:59 <rusty> hacim: more information on defaults would be really useful.  For example, -gen is the default.
 95 2011-06-08 01:17:24 <hacim> -gen is the default? i'm afraid I dont understand
 96 2011-06-08 01:17:59 <Kireji> hacim: thanks
 97 2011-06-08 01:18:03 <rusty> hacim: yeah... the verbiage needs work, and it reads like an advertisment.  Assume that if they d/l the client, they know something...
 98 2011-06-08 01:18:20 <Kireji> it appears the issue with micro payments still exists, but it's better
 99 2011-06-08 01:18:34 <Kireji> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fee  this is a good read
100 2011-06-08 01:18:36 <hacim> i'm trying to send ~12btc and I'm getting that error
101 2011-06-08 01:18:48 <hacim> rusty: i'm certainly open to suggested changes there
102 2011-06-08 01:18:59 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: you have a bunch of tiny payments that were instant cashouts from a pool?
103 2011-06-08 01:19:19 <Kireji> my understanding is that it is *not* the size of the transaction, but the number of previous transactions that must be pooled that cause the fee issue
104 2011-06-08 01:19:40 <jrmithdobbs> yup. stop paying out so often from the pool
105 2011-06-08 01:19:43 <hacim> rusty: what about just duplicating what is in the NAME section ("bitcoind - peer-to-peer network based anonymous digital currency") in the DESCRIPTION, and moving what is there now to an ABOUT section?
106 2011-06-08 01:19:48 <lfm> Kireji: theoreticlly you never need to pay fees. there are some problems with that tho. some versions of the software will insist you pay for some transactions. also transactions with fees have priority so free transactions are sometime delayed due to traffic levels
107 2011-06-08 01:19:59 <rusty> hacim: "-gen   Generate coins /-gen=0 Don't generate coins"  Presumably the lattr exists because the former is the default?
108 2011-06-08 01:20:20 <Kireji> lfm: in practice, are free transactions being delayed?
109 2011-06-08 01:20:23 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: no, i received a 12btc transaction and am trying to send it elsewhere
110 2011-06-08 01:20:43 <lfm> Kireji: sometimes yes, not sure about right now
111 2011-06-08 01:20:51 <hacim> rusty: if you do bitcoind -gen, then you start generating, to stop it you need to do gen=0
112 2011-06-08 01:21:19 <hacim> rusty: so -gen isn't really a default, its more of a toggle on
113 2011-06-08 01:21:19 <Kireji> or "bitcoin setgenerate false"
114 2011-06-08 01:22:05 <rusty> hacim: OK... so bitcoind is both a daemon, and a client to control an already-running daemon?
115 2011-06-08 01:22:07 <lfm> -gen=0 is the default I beleive
116 2011-06-08 01:22:16 <jrmithdobbs> rusty: yes
117 2011-06-08 01:22:33 <lfm> rusty ya
118 2011-06-08 01:22:34 <rusty> .. RIGHT!  Then that should probably be the first words of the man page :)
119 2011-06-08 01:22:48 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: you sure all 12 are assigned to the same address?
120 2011-06-08 01:23:09 <Kireji> http://lwn.net/Articles/414452/ exaplins the fees will replace mining rewards in the future
121 2011-06-08 01:23:36 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: they are all in my wallet and came from the same address
122 2011-06-08 01:23:51 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: in the same transaction to the same destination address?
123 2011-06-08 01:23:51 <Kireji> that the accumulation of fees from all transactions will be the reason to keep doing block calculations once the issuing stops or slows significantly
124 2011-06-08 01:23:52 <hacim> rusty: well, technically bitcoind is a daemon and you speak json to it
125 2011-06-08 01:24:01 <lfm> kireji a long time in the future, ya
126 2011-06-08 01:24:14 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: yes
127 2011-06-08 01:24:21 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: and you're running 3.22?
128 2011-06-08 01:24:30 <Kireji> is there a page that describes what the files are in ~/.bitcoin ?
129 2011-06-08 01:24:33 <lfm> hacim: you can also use bitcoind to generate json commands
130 2011-06-08 01:24:43 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: actually 0.3.21
131 2011-06-08 01:25:04 <Kireji> addr.dat blk0001.dat __db.00[1-6] ?
132 2011-06-08 01:25:05 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: and it's telling you you need a fee? are the 12 coins the only thing in your wallet?
133 2011-06-08 01:25:17 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: yes, only thing
134 2011-06-08 01:25:34 <Kireji> do any of them matter, or is only wallat.dat important to me?
135 2011-06-08 01:26:14 <lfm> Kireji: the blk0001.dat is what we call the block chain and blkindex.dat is an index into it
136 2011-06-08 01:26:34 <lfm> Kireji: and debug.log is of course a log file
137 2011-06-08 01:27:18 <Kireji> read up on addr here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Man_page
138 2011-06-08 01:27:22 <Kireji> lfm: thanks
139 2011-06-08 01:27:32 <lfm> the various db files are just temp work files for the databases
140 2011-06-08 01:27:37 <Kireji> it looks like all those files are just ones to run the client
141 2011-06-08 01:27:46 <Kireji> not ones I need for my bitcoins
142 2011-06-08 01:28:05 <Kireji> is it the case that wallat.dat is really the only file that contains the value part?
143 2011-06-08 01:28:10 <lfm> Kireji: you only need to backup wallet.dat, yes
144 2011-06-08 01:28:33 <Kireji> lfm: ok.  "only"  <- I have to keep it secret too, right?
145 2011-06-08 01:28:39 <lfm> Kireji: it has all your private keys and stuff for your money
146 2011-06-08 01:29:03 <Kireji> so if someone gets a copy of my wallat.dat, can't they spend my bitcoins?
147 2011-06-08 01:29:10 <lfm> ya dont let anyone else have copies
148 2011-06-08 01:29:26 <Kireji> I read about a lot of people putting copies everywhere, like on dropbox
149 2011-06-08 01:29:34 <Kireji> that sounds like a *really* bad idea
150 2011-06-08 01:29:42 <lfm> maybe if it is encrypted
151 2011-06-08 01:29:57 <Kireji> hmm
152 2011-06-08 01:30:12 <lfm> watch out for "services" that want to "bakup" your wallet. some have known to be scams
153 2011-06-08 01:30:36 <Kireji> a "bitcoin bank"
154 2011-06-08 01:31:25 <Kireji> thanks
155 2011-06-08 01:31:39 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: additonally, there have been 30 confirmations since I recieved those btc
156 2011-06-08 01:31:39 <lfm> banks are something else. you can deposit btc to bank sites like mybitcoin.com or mtgox.com and as far as we know they are ok
157 2011-06-08 01:32:08 <EPiSKiNG-> most sub 800 watt PSUs don't have support for 2 5970s do they?
158 2011-06-08 01:32:11 <hacim> rusty: do you want to make some changes and then send me the diff?
159 2011-06-08 01:32:19 <EPiSKiNG-> or two 5870s rather
160 2011-06-08 01:32:37 <Diablo-D3> two 5870s? sure
161 2011-06-08 01:32:40 <Diablo-D3> thats 188*2
162 2011-06-08 01:32:43 <rusty> hacim: I could, but I think we're getting closer to "rewrite", so I want more feedback firs.t  Should we pm instead?
163 2011-06-08 01:32:57 <EPiSKiNG-> right, but i noticed that a lot of 550 watt psus don't have more than 1 pci-e cable
164 2011-06-08 01:32:57 <hacim> rusty: the problem is its late here, and I'm about to sleep
165 2011-06-08 01:33:00 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: support? you mean the right connectors?
166 2011-06-08 01:33:14 <EPiSKiNG-> i'm used to 1200 watters, and thinking about what i'm going to do with the 4 cards on the way
167 2011-06-08 01:33:15 <hacim> rusty: i'm really interested in your feedback on this!
168 2011-06-08 01:33:31 <rusty> hacim: oh, sorry!  OK, I'll hack something up and see what I come up with.  I'll ask others my dumb q.s :)
169 2011-06-08 01:33:36 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: almost any psu in that range can do crossfire or sli and thats all you're talking about
170 2011-06-08 01:34:03 <EPiSKiNG-> with the molex to pci-e adapters?
171 2011-06-08 01:34:05 <hacim> rusty: they aren't dumb, they are good! do you know how to use git by any chance?
172 2011-06-08 01:34:31 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: most will have two psie connectors already in that range Id think
173 2011-06-08 01:34:31 <rusty> hacim: Um, yes... I'm a Linux kernel developer, it's kind of a requirement :)
174 2011-06-08 01:34:42 <lfm> pcie
175 2011-06-08 01:34:54 <EPiSKiNG-> and if i'm running 2 5870s overclocked with a sempron i'd only need like 500 watts right?
176 2011-06-08 01:35:11 <hacim> rusty: great! then you can send me a diff or publish your repo somewhere
177 2011-06-08 01:35:20 <jrmithdobbs> EPiSKiNG-: #bitcoin-mining
178 2011-06-08 01:35:21 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: ya maybe.
179 2011-06-08 01:36:02 <rusty> hacim: sure.... I'll mail you the results.
180 2011-06-08 01:36:28 <EPiSKiNG-> sry, off topic
181 2011-06-08 01:36:36 <hacim> thanks rusty, also thanks for your work on the linux kernel, very much appreciated!
182 2011-06-08 01:36:36 <Kireji> "You will be charged 0.01 BTC per kilobyte, just like all other transactions" from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Man_page  - is this a client convention, or in the algorithm?
183 2011-06-08 01:37:40 <rusty> hacim: You're welcome!  It keeps me out of trouble :).
184 2011-06-08 01:37:42 <lfm> Kireji: kinda like a policy
185 2011-06-08 01:38:17 <lfm> Kireji: if you dont pay it, it might still go thru but you dont know when, it might takes days
186 2011-06-08 01:39:24 <Kireji> I'm concered that if BTC become really deflated, 0.01 BTC might be a large resource
187 2011-06-08 01:39:47 <Kireji> I'm not sure if I said that right
188 2011-06-08 01:39:51 <lfm> ya well then we can change the policy, not hard to do
189 2011-06-08 01:39:53 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10049.0
190 2011-06-08 01:40:00 <jrmithdobbs> already addressed
191 2011-06-08 01:40:51 <Kireji> jrmithdobbs: thanks
192 2011-06-08 01:47:33 <peter345978> I'd like to test something on the testnet, but lack (test) coins. Could someone send me some testnet coins? Thanks&.   mvLiyvNKpz4M35GFu7r9QdFKnHbVHLjQ5Q
193 2011-06-08 01:50:20 <scott`> ;;bc,stats
194 2011-06-08 01:50:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129310 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1729 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 689263.70403711
195 2011-06-08 01:58:02 <lfm> peter345978: I think there is a tesnet faucet you should be able to get a bunch
196 2011-06-08 01:58:36 <peter345978> It's out of service.
197 2011-06-08 01:59:14 <lfm> peter345978: k hold on
198 2011-06-08 02:02:39 <lfm> peter345978: is that enuf?
199 2011-06-08 02:03:15 <peter345978> Um, not sure...
200 2011-06-08 02:03:48 <lfm> Ill run a while make sure it gets in a block
201 2011-06-08 02:06:27 <peter345978> Thank you kind sir. That's all I should need.
202 2011-06-08 02:06:38 <lfm> ok have fun
203 2011-06-08 02:06:53 <johnnympereira5> has anyone had any issues with the msi 790fx boards at all?
204 2011-06-08 02:11:01 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":28.678,"low":18.4,"vol":71578,"buy":27.75,"sell":28.3,"last":27.9}}
205 2011-06-08 02:11:01 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
206 2011-06-08 02:14:40 <gribble> Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
207 2011-06-08 02:14:40 <purpleposeidon> ;;guide
208 2011-06-08 02:41:08 <fizario> hmm how do clients make sure the coinbase doesn't have too much coinage
209 2011-06-08 02:45:23 <Txyru`> how long does it take coins to mature in the testnet?
210 2011-06-08 02:45:40 <Txyru`> how many blocks*
211 2011-06-08 02:45:53 <io_error> Txyru`: same as always
212 2011-06-08 02:46:15 <io_error> fizario: The client rejects blocks which have the wrong coinbase
213 2011-06-08 02:46:51 <Txyru`> hmm
214 2011-06-08 02:46:54 <Txyru`> interesting
215 2011-06-08 02:47:02 <Txyru`> listtransactions does that list all the transactions?
216 2011-06-08 02:47:09 <Txyru`> or only a specific amount
217 2011-06-08 02:47:26 <Txyru`> because i had generated a few blocks with testnet and now it only shows a few generated
218 2011-06-08 02:48:07 <Txyru`> quite a few*
219 2011-06-08 02:50:51 <HarryS> "bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true" lists out your current receiving addresses, yes?
220 2011-06-08 02:52:11 <Txyru`> how can you tell if you generated an orphaned block with testnet
221 2011-06-08 02:57:03 <lfm> Txyru`: did the 50 btc generated mature on you end?
222 2011-06-08 02:57:12 <Txyru`> No
223 2011-06-08 02:57:19 <Txyru`> but it doesnt say invalid
224 2011-06-08 02:57:26 <lfm> Txyru`: how many blocks ago was it?
225 2011-06-08 02:57:36 <Txyru`> I dont know
226 2011-06-08 02:57:47 <Txyru`> its not showing up in my bitcoind transaction list
227 2011-06-08 02:57:54 <Txyru`> it had like 25 confirms
228 2011-06-08 02:58:04 <lfm> in your debug.log it should show what happened and what block number (height) it was
229 2011-06-08 02:58:39 <blueCmd> Love waking up in the morning finding that BTC has risen 50%
230 2011-06-08 02:59:22 <jrmithdobbs> give me your GBP denominated bank account so i can trade on margin!
231 2011-06-08 02:59:26 <jrmithdobbs> heh
232 2011-06-08 02:59:44 <kika_> bitcoin uses any crypt algorithm or something covered by patents?
233 2011-06-08 02:59:53 <jrmithdobbs> think the discrepency has gone down enough now it's not worth it again :(
234 2011-06-08 03:00:55 <metonymous> hey all, is the reason there's no OS X 3.22 that no-ones built it yet?
235 2011-06-08 03:01:02 <kika_> elliptic curve cryptography seems to be vulnerable to quantum computers attack, how come bitcoin is secure then?
236 2011-06-08 03:01:29 <lfm> kika_: cuz no one has build any quantum computers yet
237 2011-06-08 03:01:39 <[Tycho]> Wow, 48 minutes without a block in the entire network.
238 2011-06-08 03:01:40 <Txyru`> this si what I got http://pastie.org/private/rrbvcm1c4czp33fxeopma
239 2011-06-08 03:01:57 <kika_> lfm: you cant be sure about that
240 2011-06-08 03:02:09 <kika_> lfm: there is even a company sellling quantum computers
241 2011-06-08 03:02:12 <metonymous> [Tycho]: yah!
242 2011-06-08 03:02:25 <kika_> lfm: maybe the NSA owns secret quantum computers
243 2011-06-08 03:03:23 <gmaxwell> kika_: its not the same kind of quantum computer that would be good for anything related to crypto, even if you buy all of their hype.
244 2011-06-08 03:03:23 <lfm> kika_: ya maybe the flying saucers do too
245 2011-06-08 03:03:38 <kika_> lfm: i think the flying saucers have quantum computers off course
246 2011-06-08 03:04:04 <rusty> [Tycho]: Then three in under 4 minutes... I think that's some kind of clock skew, given the # transactions in each.
247 2011-06-08 03:04:23 <lfm> Txyru`: ok you should be able to watch those txid on the block explorer
248 2011-06-08 03:04:24 <gmaxwell> network time is freeking crazy.
249 2011-06-08 03:05:45 <lfm> Txyru`: see http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/t/7a17SrobbB
250 2011-06-08 03:06:15 <Txyru`> lfm, here is a block I generated http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/fcdce870ad2530b4b3e27310f9082b01147ec6f63ddd1c1b6973c2953f154d15
251 2011-06-08 03:06:20 <Txyru`> thats not showing up in my wallet anymore
252 2011-06-08 03:09:09 <lfm> Txyru`: I dunno, mybe needs a -rescan or something. I dont think ARtForz is currently messing around with testnet but you can never be too sure. he was a week or so ago tho and he was causing forks and stuff
253 2011-06-08 03:09:26 <Txyru`> lol too much power?
254 2011-06-08 03:09:29 <Txyru`> ill do a rescan
255 2011-06-08 03:09:59 <Txyru`> bitcoind -testnet -rescan
256 2011-06-08 03:10:02 <Txyru`> that should do it right?
257 2011-06-08 03:10:10 <lfm> ya I think so
258 2011-06-08 03:10:31 <metonymous> is tehre a way to change an unconfirmed transaction to include a fee after it's been pushed? I don't know how many nodes have the tx yet
259 2011-06-08 03:10:45 <metonymous> can an unconfirmed tx be revoked
260 2011-06-08 03:10:50 <metonymous> that's my general question
261 2011-06-08 03:11:18 <Txyru`> lfm, so if it was orphaned it will just disappear from my wallet?
262 2011-06-08 03:11:22 <Txyru`> and not get any more confirms
263 2011-06-08 03:11:54 <Txyru`> the strange thing is
264 2011-06-08 03:12:02 <Txyru`> my testnet balance is >1000btc
265 2011-06-08 03:12:08 <lfm> It might hang there with 0 confirms for a long time, not sure, either thet or dissapear
266 2011-06-08 03:12:17 <Txyru`> why would that be when i have not yet had a block with 120 confirms
267 2011-06-08 03:12:22 <kika_> [Tycho]: sometimes it takes a while for the transaction to appear on my bitcoin client when i click instant payout button ?
268 2011-06-08 03:12:38 <jrmithdobbs> kika_: p2p network lag
269 2011-06-08 03:12:57 <jrmithdobbs> it has been particularly bad the last week or so
270 2011-06-08 03:13:15 <kika_> jrmithdobbs: i see no such transaction on blockexplorer for my deepbit payment transaction why
271 2011-06-08 03:13:27 <jrmithdobbs> because it's not in a block
272 2011-06-08 03:13:43 <jrmithdobbs> if you've not even seen it over p2p there's no way it could be ina  block yet
273 2011-06-08 03:13:56 <kika_> jrmithdobbs: weird, so ill have to wait the bad thing is that in past it showed on my bitcoin as 0 confirmations now it doesnt even lists it
274 2011-06-08 03:14:09 <metonymous> kika_: that don't sound fun
275 2011-06-08 03:14:13 <jrmithdobbs> wah
276 2011-06-08 03:14:30 <kika_> metonymous: what do you mean
277 2011-06-08 03:14:51 <metonymous> well, for my case, the gui didn't give me a tx id
278 2011-06-08 03:14:59 <metonymous> so it feels like an orphaned TX
279 2011-06-08 03:15:01 <metonymous> is that possible?
280 2011-06-08 03:15:07 <metonymous> will my client resend reglarly?
281 2011-06-08 03:15:13 <jrmithdobbs> yes and yes
282 2011-06-08 03:15:20 <metonymous> een 2.21?
283 2011-06-08 03:15:22 <metonymous> even
284 2011-06-08 03:16:00 <Txyru`> lfm, any thoughts on why i have a balance in my wallet with blocks that never confirmed?
285 2011-06-08 03:16:03 <Txyru`> and that dont show up
286 2011-06-08 03:17:21 <metonymous> it'd be nice if the gui let you retrieve the tx id...
287 2011-06-08 03:17:36 <dfc_> hello. sorry that this is not a -dev topic specifically. does anyone know of a good howto for setting up two ATI GPUS in linux? I had one 5850 running smoothly for a while now. today i added a 6870. i haev one monitor plugged into each card. however whenever i try and run pocblm on :0.0 or :0.1 it always does the work on the first card.
288 2011-06-08 03:18:09 <jrmithdobbs> dfc_: #bitcoin-mining
289 2011-06-08 03:18:14 <dfc_> and./or an solid method for debugging why work is only being sent to the first card?
290 2011-06-08 03:21:36 <Txyru`> gah i dont understand..
291 2011-06-08 03:21:39 <Txyru`> I generated this block http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/0000000000a7355a64f54a84ef82d235db606795a66249af559339ebc7d4fd08
292 2011-06-08 03:21:45 <Txyru`> it showed up in my wallet at one point
293 2011-06-08 03:21:47 <Txyru`> but now itsgone
294 2011-06-08 03:30:11 <cacheson> can anyone recommend a good screencasting program for windows that doesn't suck?
295 2011-06-08 03:32:05 <D0han> is there changelog of bitcoin client?
296 2011-06-08 03:40:02 <Txyru`> does listtransactions list ALL the transactions or only the most recent X transactions?
297 2011-06-08 03:41:31 <doublec> Txyru`: it takes a parameter for the number
298 2011-06-08 03:41:57 <doublec> Txyru`: it defaults to the last 10
299 2011-06-08 03:42:10 <doublec> Txyru`: so try: bitcoind listtransactions "" 10000
300 2011-06-08 03:42:23 <Txyru`> thanks
301 2011-06-08 03:42:26 <Txyru`> i got it working
302 2011-06-08 03:46:37 <Txyru`> doublec, how would you do that as a json call?
303 2011-06-08 03:47:12 <Txyru`> 
304 2011-06-08 03:47:13 <Txyru`> 
305 2011-06-08 03:47:15 <Txyru`> doesnt work
306 2011-06-08 03:47:17 <diki> woah, when did the price go sky high???
307 2011-06-08 03:47:20 <doublec> Txyru`: {method:"listtransactions" params:["",10000]}
308 2011-06-08 03:48:21 <Txyru`> thanks!
309 2011-06-08 03:48:56 <doublec> np
310 2011-06-08 03:58:06 <io_error> diki: in the last couple of hours
311 2011-06-08 04:12:04 <UukGoblin> yay, .22 released - where can I find the changelog plz?
312 2011-06-08 04:16:36 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
313 2011-06-08 04:16:37 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":28.678,"low":18.4,"vol":76884,"buy":26.66,"sell":26.86,"last":26.7}}
314 2011-06-08 04:19:26 <hacim> what is this: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/a288fec5559c3f73fd3d93db8e8460562ebfe2fcf04a5114e8d0f2920a6270dc
315 2011-06-08 04:20:06 <Txyru`> invalid block?
316 2011-06-08 04:20:08 <Txyru`> looks strange
317 2011-06-08 04:20:24 <Txyru`> no not a block
318 2011-06-08 04:20:27 <Txyru`> weird transaction
319 2011-06-08 04:20:32 <jrmithdobbs> lol
320 2011-06-08 04:21:26 <gmaxwell> It's a DOS attack txn
321 2011-06-08 04:21:35 <jrmithdobbs> or an attempt at one
322 2011-06-08 04:21:42 <gmaxwell> It makes everyone do a bunch of repeated signature checking activities.
323 2011-06-08 04:21:59 <gmaxwell> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Incidents#OP_CHECKSIG_abuse
324 2011-06-08 04:23:13 <jrmithdobbs> oh is that that same one
325 2011-06-08 04:23:17 <jrmithdobbs> thought it was a new one
326 2011-06-08 04:24:27 <devon_hillard> where does the entropy for generating public/private keysets come from?
327 2011-06-08 04:24:41 <devon_hillard> key creation looks too quick
328 2011-06-08 04:24:52 <gmaxwell> The operating system, plus bitcoin has timing code to generate more (only used on windows Ithink)
329 2011-06-08 04:24:52 <jrmithdobbs> it's way too slow what are you talking about
330 2011-06-08 04:25:24 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: ecc generation is is faster than RSA if thats what your benchmark is.
331 2011-06-08 04:25:26 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: on unix systems (including osx) it comes from /dev/urandom and an additional seed from the current time at startup (pretty standard)
332 2011-06-08 04:25:51 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: on windows it also uses RAND_screen() and RAND_event()
333 2011-06-08 04:26:06 <devon_hillard> are those crypto-strong RNDs?
334 2011-06-08 04:26:25 <devon_hillard> *RNGs*
335 2011-06-08 04:26:27 <gmaxwell> It feeds those things into a crypto-strong rng.
336 2011-06-08 04:26:28 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: and has a hacky way of kind-of-sort-of-but-not-really emulating /dev/urandom through some stuff the code calls "PerfMon"
337 2011-06-08 04:26:46 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: umm, yes, openssl's prng is "crypto-strong"
338 2011-06-08 04:26:58 <jrmithdobbs> if it's not the internet is p well fucked
339 2011-06-08 04:27:04 <jrmithdobbs> forget bitcoin
340 2011-06-08 04:27:23 <devon_hillard> so why is RSA keygen so slow then?
341 2011-06-08 04:27:46 <gmaxwell> Because RSA private keys need to be large (hopefully) prime numbers.
342 2011-06-08 04:27:48 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoin uses ecdsa, ec uses much much smaller keys
343 2011-06-08 04:28:06 <gmaxwell> ECC private keys don't have that kind of structural constrant.
344 2011-06-08 04:28:18 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_DSA
345 2011-06-08 04:29:53 <devon_hillard> how's this, if a new keypair is generated for each new transaction, the attacker may have valuable timing info to use
346 2011-06-08 04:29:55 <doublec> gmaxwell: did you see further back today where someone got banned from their ISP for connecting to the irc channel?
347 2011-06-08 04:30:06 <gmaxwell> doublec: !!!
348 2011-06-08 04:30:07 <devon_hillard> some people generate a new keypair for each transaction
349 2011-06-08 04:30:28 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: the keys are pre-generated 100 ahead.
350 2011-06-08 04:30:38 <zamgo> not always 100 ahead
351 2011-06-08 04:30:46 <doublec> gmaxwell: they suspect he was connecting to a botnet
352 2011-06-08 04:31:05 <gmaxwell> zamgo: there was some discussion about that behavior today.
353 2011-06-08 04:31:20 <gmaxwell> zamgo: now I don't know what the #@$@ it is.
354 2011-06-08 04:31:32 <zamgo> i'm seen some forum threads about it.. and person losing lotta btc because wallet wasn't pre-100'd
355 2011-06-08 04:31:47 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: in any case, in the normal use of bitcoin there wouldn't be any timing data. Your sofware also does some fuzzing of its transmission times.
356 2011-06-08 04:31:48 <zamgo> s/'m /'ve /
357 2011-06-08 04:32:12 <gmaxwell> zamgo: Well people keep linking to an old one where someone lost 8999 which inspired the precalc
358 2011-06-08 04:32:29 <doublec> gmaxwell: see the logs about 6 hours ago if you're interested
359 2011-06-08 04:32:29 <gmaxwell> zamgo: but there is a current bug where it doesn't start the 100 ahead process until you get your first address.
360 2011-06-08 04:33:17 <gmaxwell> doublec: I don't know what triggered the unfiltering for sure I went and whined and people who know people and then it was unblocked here after ~12? ish hours. But it could have been pure coincidence.
361 2011-06-08 04:33:20 <doublec> http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/2011/06/08#l1042
362 2011-06-08 04:33:24 <jrmithdobbs> zamgo: that guy that lost 9k coins was last summer when they were worth ~0.02 or some shit
363 2011-06-08 04:33:36 <jrmithdobbs> zamgo: and the keypool stuff was implemented in response
364 2011-06-08 04:34:17 <gmaxwell> doublec: there is an #lfnet channel on #lfnet and when someone finally woke up there (after it was unblocked for me) their response was "ah we've been blocked as a botnet before"
365 2011-06-08 04:34:43 <doublec> gmaxwell: this is a more recent one http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11104
366 2011-06-08 04:34:59 <doublec> (re: lost coins and preallocating)
367 2011-06-08 04:36:43 <gmaxwell> doublec: yea, thats the "doesn't pregenerate until you hit the button" bug, fixed in the encrypted wallet branch. :( :(
368 2011-06-08 04:37:11 <rusty> k
369 2011-06-08 04:37:50 <gmaxwell> I really think it should switch to Key_INDEX = HASH(SECRET_BLOB+INDEX) The current behavior has cost people more money than people have lost due to wallet theft.
370 2011-06-08 04:37:52 <jrmithdobbs> or fixed by immediately running getnewaddress rpc/clicking button in client after wallet creation
371 2011-06-08 04:38:01 <gmaxwell> And enryption closes the wallet theft window a lot anyways.
372 2011-06-08 04:38:24 <gmaxwell> The 100 pregen stuff is hard to explain to people.
373 2011-06-08 04:38:45 <mtrlt> i agree that we should use a "deterministic wallet" syste
374 2011-06-08 04:38:46 <mtrlt> m
375 2011-06-08 04:39:11 <jrmithdobbs> love the resonspes in that thread
376 2011-06-08 04:39:15 <gmaxwell> They want to think of it as _recieve_ that makes them backup. Send is counterintuitive. Summing two activity types is counterintutive.
377 2011-06-08 04:39:29 <jrmithdobbs> "hurr dd your whole harddrive!!" umm, ya that doesn't help when it was never written to the drive in the first place :(
378 2011-06-08 04:39:58 <devon_hillard> are there contingency plans in case the crypto-primitives bitcoin is buint on are found vulnerable in the future?
379 2011-06-08 04:40:02 <gmaxwell> 100 is enough that you can be a little lazy with backups, but not so much that you can be really lazy.
380 2011-06-08 04:40:06 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: yes
381 2011-06-08 04:40:18 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: they can all be swapped out pretty easily
382 2011-06-08 04:40:34 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: Yes, swap them out with the swap tied to a particular block number. Fairly straight forward.
383 2011-06-08 04:40:35 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: especially ecdsa since those keys aren't even used in the protocol
384 2011-06-08 04:41:04 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: the actual assignment of coins in txns is done by a forth-like script, it's not just a blink pubkey signing
385 2011-06-08 04:41:08 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: just would require a new opcode to change the signatures.
386 2011-06-08 04:41:42 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: not even that depending on what's being switched to if the disabled ones get turned back on
387 2011-06-08 04:41:55 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: most sig check routines can be implemented with the ops in the spec ;P
388 2011-06-08 04:42:05 <gmaxwell> The hashes are a bit harder to change but are also probably less likely to generate an actually practical attack.
389 2011-06-08 04:42:26 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: if not efficiently
390 2011-06-08 04:43:18 <gmaxwell> It would be interesting to evaluate the security of "weakened bitcoin" e.g. using MD5.
391 2011-06-08 04:43:54 <mtrlt> gmaxwell: that's a good idea.
392 2011-06-08 04:43:56 <gmaxwell> I don't think that any of the currently pratical attacks on MD5, for example, would be especially devistating in the context of bitcoin. Though I'd want to think about that more carefully before saying for sure.
393 2011-06-08 04:44:10 <jrmithdobbs> theorhetically it'd be worse, in all honesty, i don't think it would make a practical difference for a few more years
394 2011-06-08 04:44:27 <jrmithdobbs> ya exactly
395 2011-06-08 04:45:55 <gmaxwell> someone linked to some crap paper earlier today asserting that bitcoin isn't distributed because 'there is no distributed system for changing out the crypto'
396 2011-06-08 04:46:24 <jrmithdobbs> some of the papers/commentary coming out are retarded
397 2011-06-08 04:46:33 <jrmithdobbs> s/some/most/
398 2011-06-08 04:46:44 <gmaxwell> (because they decided to define all the client software authors adopting something new as of block XX, and all the users upgrading as non-distributed)
399 2011-06-08 04:47:17 <gmaxwell> (well, I don't think they actually realized the change could be tied to a block number either)
400 2011-06-08 04:48:15 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: oh man, brtfs isn't distributed either then! what happens if we lose scsi/sas over night and our nodes can't automagically heal!?!
401 2011-06-08 04:48:27 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
402 2011-06-08 04:51:38 <zamgo> has anyone thought of setting up bitcoin honeypots?  for anyone scanning for open wallets
403 2011-06-08 04:53:34 <devon_hillard> how do you 'scan for open wallets'? what is an open wallet?
404 2011-06-08 04:53:56 <zamgo> any bitcoind running with an open port
405 2011-06-08 04:54:05 <zamgo> or hackable user/pass
406 2011-06-08 04:54:21 <devon_hillard> ok, say I have an open port, what then?
407 2011-06-08 04:54:39 <zamgo> then I can login via json rpc calls, and send all your bitcoins away
408 2011-06-08 04:55:12 <devon_hillard> ah, remote desktop with easy password
409 2011-06-08 04:55:21 <zamgo> kinda
410 2011-06-08 04:55:37 <devon_hillard> or web-facing passworded ssh
411 2011-06-08 04:56:13 <zamgo> ja...
412 2011-06-08 04:56:55 <zamgo> -rpallowip=*
413 2011-06-08 04:59:01 <dirtyfilthy> every time incredibly volatile mtgox goes up my $1 it's all "omg it's going to $1000" and everytime it falls by $1 it's "omg it's going to 0.50c"
414 2011-06-08 04:59:11 <dirtyfilthy> fucking retarded
415 2011-06-08 05:00:01 <devon_hillard> it's a fun hobby, but some folks are pouring real money into the fire
416 2011-06-08 05:01:40 <devon_hillard> wow $28
417 2011-06-08 05:02:46 <mtrlt> dirtyfilthy: that's human nature :p
418 2011-06-08 05:03:53 <lfm> yup humans are retarded
419 2011-06-08 05:04:32 <devon_hillard> https://mtgox.com/trade/megaChart
420 2011-06-08 05:13:24 <Gunni> headers.h:43:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory
421 2011-06-08 05:13:44 <gjs278> Gunni
422 2011-06-08 05:13:46 <gjs278> are you on gentoo
423 2011-06-08 05:13:48 <Gunni> that file doesn't exist anywhere but i have a so file for it
424 2011-06-08 05:13:56 <Gunni> no
425 2011-06-08 05:14:04 <gjs278> check inside /usr/include/db-4.8
426 2011-06-08 05:14:07 <gjs278> or something like taht
427 2011-06-08 05:14:39 <Gunni> . /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdb_cxx-4.8.so this is the only file containing db_cxx on my testmachine
428 2011-06-08 05:15:35 <Gunni> might need to install something, right?
429 2011-06-08 05:15:50 <gjs278> yes
430 2011-06-08 05:15:52 <gjs278> berkely database
431 2011-06-08 05:16:11 <Gunni> can't find it, you know about a package for it for ubuntu?
432 2011-06-08 05:16:39 <glicth-mod> db?
433 2011-06-08 05:16:49 <Gunni> just db?
434 2011-06-08 05:16:57 <Gunni> i searched for berkely :P
435 2011-06-08 05:17:12 <glicth-mod> dbs maybe
436 2011-06-08 05:17:16 <doublec> Gunni: libdb4.7++-dev
437 2011-06-08 05:18:54 <Gunni> yay works
438 2011-06-08 05:18:58 <Gunni> compilin'
439 2011-06-08 05:19:03 <Gunni> ty
440 2011-06-08 05:19:05 <doublec> np
441 2011-06-08 05:21:18 <devon_hillard> haha, a self-described bitcoin ponzi scheme: http://fxnet.bitlex.org/ (caveat emptor)
442 2011-06-08 05:21:19 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
443 2011-06-08 05:21:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129336 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1703 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 689919.81366116
444 2011-06-08 05:34:36 <xelister> heeey I resolved the ATI-dont-work on Ubuntu maverick bug
445 2011-06-08 05:34:51 <gjs278> did you have to reformat
446 2011-06-08 05:35:04 <xelister> they buy mistake for a moment enabled downloads of wrong kernel version (.38 instead .35) in repos..... :>   problem?
447 2011-06-08 05:36:58 <xelister> "2.6.38 based kernel) was accidentally copied to lucid-proposed and maverick-proposed, and thus had been on the master archive.ubuntu.com between 09:00 and 14:00 UTC."   problem users?   :don't care face:
448 2011-06-08 05:37:31 <gjs278> you can't even use ati-drivers on .39
449 2011-06-08 05:37:58 <xelister> yea. well for .39 there seem to be patches floating around
450 2011-06-08 05:38:14 <jrmithdobbs> ati needs to fix their driver
451 2011-06-08 05:38:50 <xelister> and hardware
452 2011-06-08 05:39:02 <jrmithdobbs> and business model
453 2011-06-08 05:39:10 <jrmithdobbs> also s/ati/amd/
454 2011-06-08 05:39:19 <xelister> you know that 4xxx and 5xxx cards all have hardware bug making them not properly show mouse cursor and often hard freeze when moving mouse?
455 2011-06-08 05:39:26 <xelister> HARDWARE BUG
456 2011-06-08 05:39:39 <xelister> 5970 - 500 USD
457 2011-06-08 05:39:44 <xelister> 4 GB VRAM
458 2011-06-08 05:39:49 <xelister> Mouse support: NO
459 2011-06-08 05:39:50 <xelister> lol.
460 2011-06-08 05:39:56 <jrmithdobbs> more like $750 usd
461 2011-06-08 05:39:59 <jrmithdobbs> thx bitcoin
462 2011-06-08 05:40:03 <xelister> ;)
463 2011-06-08 05:40:05 <gjs278> mine freeze if you go offscreen sometimes
464 2011-06-08 05:40:10 <xelister> gjs278: yeap
465 2011-06-08 05:40:25 <xelister> gjs278: if you are luck it doesn't freeze, it just changes cursor to random skewed bitmap shit :D
466 2011-06-08 05:40:54 <xelister> 1995's  S3 TRIO  card DOES BETTER JOB AT RENDERING MOUSE CURSOR.  lol.
467 2011-06-08 05:41:18 <gjs278> I still crash mplayer if I run in -f0
468 2011-06-08 05:41:21 <gjs278> well
469 2011-06-08 05:41:27 <gjs278> f0 on the other cards currently not using my display
470 2011-06-08 05:41:28 <xelister> *type* *type* *type*  Look mom Im coding hardware cursor blit.... *type* *type*   ok...  I have no Idea what I'm doing :D  :don't care:
471 2011-06-08 05:43:31 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: the s3 trio was a p gr8 card tho
472 2011-06-08 05:43:33 <jrmithdobbs> that's not fair
473 2011-06-08 05:43:45 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
474 2011-06-08 05:44:33 <xelister> perhaps 7xxx cards will rock
475 2011-06-08 05:44:42 <gjs278> no
476 2011-06-08 05:44:47 <gjs278> amd is too noob
477 2011-06-08 05:44:50 <xelister> firing old Ati team was probably a good move
478 2011-06-08 05:44:56 <xelister> AMD != Ati
479 2011-06-08 05:45:12 <gjs278> I trace it back to the parent company
480 2011-06-08 05:45:12 <xelister> afair they did fire original Ati thing, what more could we hope for :)
481 2011-06-08 05:45:40 <jrmithdobbs> ya iirc they fired most of the ati guys
482 2011-06-08 05:45:57 <xelister> o/
483 2011-06-08 05:47:08 <twitcoins> Anybody going to AFDS?
484 2011-06-08 05:48:53 <xelister> That means, if you have proposed updates enabled on your 10.04 LTS (lucid) or 10.10 (maverick) Ubuntu installation, and did a system upgrade during that time, it might have pulled in the 2.6.38 kernel.
485 2011-06-08 05:48:58 <xelister> trololo lolo lololo
486 2011-06-08 05:49:13 <xelister> why Im still surprised
487 2011-06-08 05:49:36 <jrmithdobbs> i only care when their retardedness gets merged back into debian tbqh
488 2011-06-08 05:49:58 <xelister> ^- "Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com)  | Debian Developer  (www.debian.org)"
489 2011-06-08 05:50:04 <jrmithdobbs> see: sudo fiasco of implementing NEW CODE that just did what env_reset does WITH NO WAY TO TURN IT OFF
490 2011-06-08 05:50:08 <jrmithdobbs> jackasses
491 2011-06-08 05:50:51 <jrmithdobbs> also, wasn't the openssl fiasco a ubuntu tard?
492 2011-06-08 05:50:54 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
493 2011-06-08 05:51:01 <xelister> nope, it was debian
494 2011-06-08 05:51:05 <jrmithdobbs> damn
495 2011-06-08 05:51:18 <jrmithdobbs> i'll blame ubuntu anyways
496 2011-06-08 05:51:25 <xelister> wait what
497 2011-06-08 05:51:28 <xelister> @25 ?????????????????
498 2011-06-08 05:51:30 <jrmithdobbs> was probably their maintainers bitching about the valgrind warnings anyways
499 2011-06-08 05:51:31 <gjs278> higher
500 2011-06-08 05:51:33 <gjs278> 27
501 2011-06-08 05:51:34 <xelister> TROLOLOLO LOLO LOLOL
502 2011-06-08 05:51:38 <xelister> I dont fucking care
503 2011-06-08 05:51:57 <jrmithdobbs> hit 28.3 earlier
504 2011-06-08 05:52:04 <xelister> what the fuck...
505 2011-06-08 05:52:05 <gjs278> I paid 20 bitcoins on monday for two 5850's, they were $18 when I sent
506 2011-06-08 05:52:05 <xelister> 25
507 2011-06-08 05:52:07 <xelister> 28
508 2011-06-08 05:52:11 <jrmithdobbs> ps: bitcoin: Officially More Valuable than MSFT
509 2011-06-08 05:52:15 <gjs278> by the time I get them they will be like $30
510 2011-06-08 05:52:19 <jrmithdobbs> (seriously)
511 2011-06-08 05:52:20 <xelister> when it will hit 100?
512 2011-06-08 05:52:23 <gjs278> silver
513 2011-06-08 05:52:29 <gjs278> is going to be worthless than a bitcoin
514 2011-06-08 05:52:42 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: microsoft shares already are
515 2011-06-08 05:52:44 <jrmithdobbs> lollol
516 2011-06-08 05:52:46 <gjs278> lol
517 2011-06-08 05:53:08 <xelister> ;; bc,gen 700000
518 2011-06-08 05:53:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 1.24097939523 BTC per day and 0.0517074748014 BTC per hour.
519 2011-06-08 05:53:13 <jrmithdobbs> someone should /topic BitCoin: More Valuable Than MSFT
520 2011-06-08 05:53:33 <gjs278> taking payments in bitcoins is awesome
521 2011-06-08 05:53:55 <jrmithdobbs> i feel like a dick
522 2011-06-08 05:54:10 <jrmithdobbs> we sold off our mining gear because diff got to where it wasn't going to be practical to keep up
523 2011-06-08 05:54:14 <jrmithdobbs> for @new price
524 2011-06-08 05:54:16 <jrmithdobbs> in btc
525 2011-06-08 05:54:26 <jrmithdobbs> at 7d average back when that was ~6.9
526 2011-06-08 05:54:30 <gjs278> yeah I got the new stuff form a guy who was giving up
527 2011-06-08 05:54:38 <jrmithdobbs> (and it was trading at 8.5)
528 2011-06-08 05:54:46 <gjs278> I remember 8.5 like it was a week ago
529 2011-06-08 05:54:52 <jrmithdobbs> 2
530 2011-06-08 05:54:53 <jrmithdobbs> lol
531 2011-06-08 05:55:02 <xelister> I remember when I was happy because of @0.85
532 2011-06-08 05:55:10 <xelister> and then Blitzboom boubht our coins
533 2011-06-08 05:55:11 <gjs278> when it hit $18 I hit the selll button way too hard
534 2011-06-08 05:55:12 <xelister> :-E
535 2011-06-08 05:55:28 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: really? even knowing jgarzik had the cbs interview today?
536 2011-06-08 05:55:37 <gjs278> I didnt know it at the time
537 2011-06-08 05:55:40 <jrmithdobbs> ah
538 2011-06-08 05:55:45 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: url? .mpeg?
539 2011-06-08 05:55:46 <jrmithdobbs> pay attention!
540 2011-06-08 05:55:53 <gjs278> plus it was 18 stale for about two days, so that's decades in bitcoin time
541 2011-06-08 05:56:06 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: it's in the log somewhere. just a bad transcript though
542 2011-06-08 05:56:20 <jrmithdobbs> the transcript/summary is awful, the actual video was p gud
543 2011-06-08 05:57:12 <Eremes> do u need identical gpu to crosfire ? can i cross 5970 and 6990 on 1 mobo ?
544 2011-06-08 05:59:15 <jrmithdobbs> #bitcoin-mining
545 2011-06-08 06:00:31 <xelister> Eremes: you want to disable xfire. Amd will troll you on this subject too
546 2011-06-08 06:01:17 <jrmithdobbs> those are pretty much just connectors that get in the way of shoving more cards in a chassis
547 2011-06-08 06:01:40 <jrmithdobbs> (cause you have to make sure they don't contact shit they shouldn't ;P)
548 2011-06-08 06:02:08 <Eremes> so 5970 & 6990 on same mobo is not good ?
549 2011-06-08 06:02:32 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
550 2011-06-08 06:02:34 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":28.678,"low":18.4,"vol":80385,"buy":25.8501,"sell":26,"last":25.8501}}
551 2011-06-08 06:03:11 <davux> hi!
552 2011-06-08 06:03:43 <davux> can anyone send me TESTNET bitcoins to mfwqb7JpwG4KR48Rvf5w5Go8GxjHDKSF5V please?
553 2011-06-08 06:04:09 <spq> sent
554 2011-06-08 06:04:16 <davux> thanks spq
555 2011-06-08 06:05:14 <spq> np
556 2011-06-08 06:09:14 <davux> are there plans to push the decimals allowed by default bitcoin client?
557 2011-06-08 06:09:27 <davux> 2 decimals is starting to be quite imprecise
558 2011-06-08 06:10:22 <davux> I live in mexico, and you can't charge, say, 5 pesos in bitcoins with a 2 decimal precision
559 2011-06-08 06:10:44 <jrmithdobbs> davux: yes being discussed
560 2011-06-08 06:11:16 <jrmithdobbs> davux: growing pains, noone thought there'd be this much interest this quickly i think
561 2011-06-08 06:11:26 <davux> yup
562 2011-06-08 06:11:46 <davux> i don't understand why there's a limit at all in the interface
563 2011-06-08 06:11:59 <jrmithdobbs> well
564 2011-06-08 06:12:19 <davux> moreover, the RPC interface doesn't have such a limit
565 2011-06-08 06:12:20 <jrmithdobbs> until 3.21 you couldn't even see balances before two decimal places
566 2011-06-08 06:12:22 <davux> only the GUI
567 2011-06-08 06:12:31 <jrmithdobbs> err after
568 2011-06-08 06:13:17 <jrmithdobbs> davux: when 1 coin was worth $0.20usd it made sense ... ;P
569 2011-06-08 06:13:35 <davux> why did it make sense?
570 2011-06-08 06:13:40 <jrmithdobbs> davux: it was to prevent spamming lots of low-value txns and flooding the network with useless work
571 2011-06-08 06:13:59 <davux> oh
572 2011-06-08 06:14:06 <davux> I see
573 2011-06-08 06:14:07 <TheAncientGoat> jeebs. 5 dollar jump while I was sleeping?
574 2011-06-08 06:14:08 <jrmithdobbs> now that value has skyrocketed those txns aren't really spam
575 2011-06-08 06:14:16 <jrmithdobbs> TheAncientGoat: that'll teach you to sleep
576 2011-06-08 06:14:41 <TheAncientGoat> This is bloody nitroglycerine
577 2011-06-08 06:15:39 <davux> now that I'm into bitcoin I understand those clich??s of wallstreet guys staring at screens and yelling in phones like crazy
578 2011-06-08 06:15:51 <nathan7> TheAncientGoat: Nitroglycerin is a terrible explosive for a number of reasons.
579 2011-06-08 06:16:34 <TheAncientGoat> nathan7: Heh, yeah, but I'm pointing out the parralels :P
580 2011-06-08 06:16:53 <davux> is there any development being made on bitcoin client?
581 2011-06-08 06:17:10 <nathan7> It's hard to get to detonate properly but will make a sizeable explosion easily when handled improperly.
582 2011-06-08 06:17:13 <jrmithdobbs> davux: what do you mean? there was a new version like 3 days ago
583 2011-06-08 06:17:23 <davux> oh
584 2011-06-08 06:17:30 <davux> i missed that
585 2011-06-08 06:23:10 <jrmithdobbs> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/dc811f4ca620b0b39467fed34dce5644899c09f949468c0547f1d5495c80c7e2
586 2011-06-08 06:23:17 <jrmithdobbs> why did that txn (not mine) require a fee?
587 2011-06-08 06:23:40 <jrmithdobbs> prompted for one apparently
588 2011-06-08 06:23:43 <jrmithdobbs> in 3.21
589 2011-06-08 06:25:03 <TheAncientGoat> Btw, guys, I had a deliciously evil idea last night
590 2011-06-08 06:25:10 <TheAncientGoat> DRM using bitcoin }:D
591 2011-06-08 06:25:50 <TheAncientGoat> You embed a micro bitcoin client, that only decrypts a file if it recieves a payment with the encryption key as a message
592 2011-06-08 06:26:43 <jrmithdobbs> not a bad idea at all
593 2011-06-08 06:27:41 <TheAncientGoat> Bitcoin could be a very good security measure like that, as you can't falsify permission without breaking the network somehow
594 2011-06-08 06:29:20 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: because the input tx wasn't old enough.
595 2011-06-08 06:29:24 <davux> mail servers could accept bitcoin payments attached to emails and then substract a few points of spam probability
596 2011-06-08 06:29:34 <gmaxwell> (I speculate)
597 2011-06-08 06:30:11 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ahh good point
598 2011-06-08 06:30:56 <davux> 0.00000001 BTC for every email sent
599 2011-06-08 06:31:15 <davux> very cheap for everyday use, unaffordable for spammers
600 2011-06-08 06:31:26 <jrmithdobbs> 18 blocks is old enough it shouldn't have caused one i thought?
601 2011-06-08 06:32:15 <jrmithdobbs> ok, thet cat is now telling me to go to bed (seriously)
602 2011-06-08 06:32:19 <jrmithdobbs> spoiled brat
603 2011-06-08 06:32:31 <davux> haha
604 2011-06-08 06:32:51 <jrmithdobbs> i'm serious, she gets to a point where she starts walking up and sticking her face in mine until i do
605 2011-06-08 06:32:59 <jrmithdobbs> p annoying
606 2011-06-08 06:38:17 <Phoebus> 26 cents per transfer, people. We're getting there to beating cc's on cost :P
607 2011-06-08 06:38:33 <jrmithdobbs> huh?
608 2011-06-08 06:38:38 <[Tycho]> Transactions are free
609 2011-06-08 06:38:46 <jrmithdobbs> seriously
610 2011-06-08 06:38:57 <jrmithdobbs> if your txns aren't free you're doing something you probably shouldn't
611 2011-06-08 06:38:59 <[Tycho]> At leas while my pool is working :)
612 2011-06-08 06:39:03 <Phoebus> 0.01*26 is not free.
613 2011-06-08 06:39:15 <[Tycho]> Fee is 0.00, not 0.01
614 2011-06-08 06:39:18 <Phoebus> jrmithdobbs, explain.
615 2011-06-08 06:39:34 <[Tycho]> May be you need to use .19 client version
616 2011-06-08 06:39:52 <[Tycho]> It doesn't forces fees.
617 2011-06-08 06:39:53 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: your txns only require a fee if: a) you're using a whole bunch of tiny inputs and therefore create a HUGE txn
618 2011-06-08 06:40:04 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: b) you send less than .01 in a single txn
619 2011-06-08 06:40:30 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: c) you xfer too quickly after coming into control of them (I forget exact limit)
620 2011-06-08 06:40:30 <Phoebus> So it costs more to send less btc? I'm confused now.
621 2011-06-08 06:41:13 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm / jgarzik: someone needs to update the wording in the gui fee screen
622 2011-06-08 06:41:21 <Moonies> can someone point me to a tool that'll help me visualize/link blockexplorer transactions?
623 2011-06-08 06:42:03 <Phoebus> Repeat anything said after b) :P
624 2011-06-08 06:42:33 <Phoebus> Using 3.21.-beta guess I should upgrade?
625 2011-06-08 06:45:10 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: c) you xfer too quickly after coming into control of them (I forget exact limit)
626 2011-06-08 06:45:42 <Phoebus> ahem ok so in B if you transfer too small of a btc amount it actually costs you more? :P
627 2011-06-08 06:45:46 <jrmithdobbs> correct
628 2011-06-08 06:45:52 <Phoebus> Weird
629 2011-06-08 06:46:08 <jrmithdobbs> it's to prevent tiny spam txns that clog up the pending txns
630 2011-06-08 06:46:13 <jrmithdobbs> memory pool
631 2011-06-08 06:46:36 <jrmithdobbs> the exact values are going to have to be reevaluated as prices continue soaring
632 2011-06-08 06:46:50 <Phoebus> Yeah but what about legit donations, at what decimal does this kick in?
633 2011-06-08 06:46:54 <Phoebus> ok
634 2011-06-08 06:47:08 <jrmithdobbs> anything <0.01
635 2011-06-08 06:47:54 <Phoebus> This is already unfair, what if I want to send someone 5 cents worth. Suddently btc is not good for microtransactions :P
636 2011-06-08 06:48:27 <vegard> pools could easily provide a microtransaction service by letting people who pay them a small sum have unlimited microtransactions that are guaranteed to be included in blocks generated at the pool
637 2011-06-08 06:49:24 <Phoebus> ugg...
638 2011-06-08 06:49:33 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: it never was good for microtransactions
639 2011-06-08 06:49:54 <spq> where can i find a description of what is happening when mining? i know its sha256(sha256(x)) but dont know exactly what x is - and whats variable in x
640 2011-06-08 06:49:55 <jrmithdobbs> vegard: exactly, hoorah capitalism
641 2011-06-08 06:49:57 <gmaxwell> it was more micro than, say, credit cards... but thats not really micro.
642 2011-06-08 06:50:15 <gmaxwell> spq: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
643 2011-06-08 06:50:19 <gmaxwell> spq: read the paper.
644 2011-06-08 06:50:58 <ersi> So, how large is a transaction that is 'large' and would need a transaction fee?
645 2011-06-08 06:53:58 <jrmithdobbs> 1KB
646 2011-06-08 06:54:13 <jrmithdobbs> as an example
647 2011-06-08 06:54:33 <jrmithdobbs> most sane txns with a single input are <400bytes
648 2011-06-08 06:54:39 <jrmithdobbs> no matter coin value
649 2011-06-08 06:55:44 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzikreally should have pointed out on cbs that this fact discourages money laundering ;P
650 2011-06-08 06:57:20 <gmaxwell> People who talk about bitcoin and laundering don't really have any idea how laundering works.
651 2011-06-08 06:57:27 <UukGoblin> what's up with britcoin? why is the domain being modified?
652 2011-06-08 06:57:51 <midnightmagic> laundering is just obscuring the origin. it's not necessary perfectly "clean"..
653 2011-06-08 06:58:08 <gmaxwell> http://www.fatf-gafi.org/document/29/0,3746,en_32250379_32235720_33659613_1_1_1_1,00.html < random citation on laundering
654 2011-06-08 06:59:39 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin does little for placement (except placement via buying mining or coins with cash), little for layering due to the transaction logs, and absolutely nothing for integration because there is very little bitcoin business, and basically none that leaves no records which can be used to hide income sources.
655 2011-06-08 06:59:58 <ersi> jrmithdobbs: How does that translate into Bitcoins?
656 2011-06-08 07:00:18 <gmaxwell> e.g. you can't claim your billion bitcoin came from mining because you don't have an army of GPUs and the coins are not freshly generated or straight from a pool.
657 2011-06-08 07:08:24 <spq> gmaxwell: well that paper misses the exact definition of what is hashed - 4. Proof-of-work describes only that we search for a value that when hashed begins with a number of 0's - not exactly whats hashed - and that its double hashed isn't mentioned also
658 2011-06-08 07:08:31 <Moonies> anyone... visualization tools? :(
659 2011-06-08 07:13:23 <midnightmagic> but you can claim you don't know the origin of your coins.
660 2011-06-08 07:15:20 <nathan7> Hi midnightmagic
661 2011-06-08 07:16:14 <nathan7> the man who made me rich
662 2011-06-08 07:19:39 <jaromil> anyone knows what is the release planned after .22 ? is that .4 ?
663 2011-06-08 07:19:45 <sipa> 0.3.23, followed by 0.4.0
664 2011-06-08 07:19:49 <jaromil> (gmoin)
665 2011-06-08 07:20:58 <jaromil> i'd like to be around for .4 in case we can plan a bit but i see might take some time still
666 2011-06-08 07:22:16 <jaromil> BTW this meeting in europe is going to be interesting http://pixxxel.net/monetary-utopias i'll be there next week
667 2011-06-08 07:23:42 <ersi> jrmithdobbs: One would have to know about each coin to know how large a transaction will be, to be able to make it into something corresponding to an amount of bitcoins - am I getting that right?
668 2011-06-08 07:26:41 <Gekz> what's the ETA on an updated mac binary?
669 2011-06-08 07:33:16 <midnightmagic> nathan7: i don't even remember how many ? i gave you. :-)
670 2011-06-08 07:33:32 <nathan7> midnightmagic: 20
671 2011-06-08 07:33:37 <nathan7> they're now ???301.55 or so
672 2011-06-08 07:33:39 <midnightmagic> lol, sweet.
673 2011-06-08 07:33:49 <nathan7> I'll use it to fund awesome things, I promise