1 2011-06-22 00:08:08 <phrontist> is there a roadmap for development of the client anywhere?
  2 2011-06-22 00:13:17 <tcatm> phrontist: this is the closest equivalent of a roadmap I know of: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=27661223
  3 2011-06-22 00:20:23 <phrontist> tcatm, thanks
  4 2011-06-22 00:22:20 <ericmock> did wallet.dat somehow change with version change from .21 to .23?
  5 2011-06-22 00:22:35 <phrontist> in satoshi's paper there is mention of a pruning algorithm to avoid forcing each user to download the whole blockchain - has that been implemented?
  6 2011-06-22 00:23:16 <tcatm> phrontist: nope
  7 2011-06-22 00:23:21 <ericmock> my old wallet.dat file causes client to crash...  runs fine if I let it create a new one
  8 2011-06-22 00:24:07 <tcatm> ericmock: os?
  9 2011-06-22 00:24:12 <ericmock> osx
 10 2011-06-22 00:24:21 <tcatm> hrm
 11 2011-06-22 00:24:29 <tcatm> should work
 12 2011-06-22 00:24:31 <ericmock> crashes at     if (!CWalletDB("cr+").LoadWallet())
 13 2011-06-22 00:24:56 <tcatm> can you try loading the wallet with bitcointools (./dbdump --wallet)
 14 2011-06-22 00:25:28 <ericmock> let me do some other testing (and where can I get bitcointools?)
 15 2011-06-22 00:25:47 <ericmock> nm
 16 2011-06-22 00:25:49 <tcatm> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcointools
 17 2011-06-22 00:25:54 <ericmock> thx
 18 2011-06-22 00:26:50 <tcatm> .23 might use a different BDB version
 19 2011-06-22 00:29:01 <phrontist> is there anywhere I can see how many clients comprise the whole bitcoin network?
 20 2011-06-22 00:29:53 <ericmock> tcatm: I'm linking against db5.1 (I think)
 21 2011-06-22 00:30:39 <phuzion> Is ANYONE mining on the testnet right now?
 22 2011-06-22 00:30:41 <tcatm> oh you're building from src?
 23 2011-06-22 00:30:47 <ericmock> yea
 24 2011-06-22 00:30:51 <ericmock> sorry
 25 2011-06-22 00:31:06 <ericmock> but I grabbed another 'old' wallet and that seems fine...
 26 2011-06-22 00:31:14 <ericmock> wallet.dat corruption?
 27 2011-06-22 00:31:24 <phrontist> phuzion: I'll start, if you want me to :-)
 28 2011-06-22 00:31:33 <tcatm> use db4.x
 29 2011-06-22 00:31:57 <tcatm> bdb likes to change dataformats between versions
 30 2011-06-22 00:32:29 <ericmock> but I've always been using 5.1...
 31 2011-06-22 00:32:34 <ericmock> let me try dumpdb
 32 2011-06-22 00:33:56 <phuzion> phrontist: That would be nice.  I'd like to get the blockchain at some point :)
 33 2011-06-22 00:34:15 <phrontist> just started
 34 2011-06-22 00:34:21 <ericmock> hmm...  no bsddb module
 35 2011-06-22 00:34:21 <phuzion> Thanks
 36 2011-06-22 00:34:30 <phrontist> but this is on an old-ish CPU
 37 2011-06-22 00:34:39 <phrontist> I figure the test-net difficutly is set pretty low?
 38 2011-06-22 00:34:45 <phuzion> Probably insanely low
 39 2011-06-22 00:35:19 <phrontist> {"result":{"version":32002,"balance":1.50000000,"blocks":25461,"connections":8,"proxy":"","generate":true,"genproclimit":-1,"difficulty":66.10564472,"hashespersec":2139884,"testnet":true,"keypoololdest":1308644377,"paytxfee":0.00000000,"errors":""},"error":null,"id":"curltest"}
 40 2011-06-22 00:35:29 <phrontist> 66?
 41 2011-06-22 00:35:36 <phrontist> what is the main network at?
 42 2011-06-22 00:35:46 <dsockwell> phrontist: idk it took me a couple of days to gen a block with cpu
 43 2011-06-22 00:35:52 <phuzion> I think something like 180K or something, phrontist
 44 2011-06-22 00:35:58 <phrontist> hahaha
 45 2011-06-22 00:36:18 <dsockwell> about 40 minutes with dual 8800s
 46 2011-06-22 00:36:26 <phuzion> I'm gonna be running this on an Atom 1.6GHz, so I'll be mining for a while before getting something.
 47 2011-06-22 00:36:37 <dsockwell> you're better off begging
 48 2011-06-22 00:37:05 <phrontist> so, iirc, "difficulty" expresses how many bytes of the hash you need to get right before victory is declared
 49 2011-06-22 00:37:21 <phrontist> how does that relate to a number like 66 or 180k?
 50 2011-06-22 00:37:45 <phrontist> (on the main net it's "877226.6" btw)
 51 2011-06-22 00:37:46 <phuzion> phrontist: higher the number, the longer it will take an individual to mine a block.
 52 2011-06-22 00:37:53 <phrontist> phuzion: right, right
 53 2011-06-22 00:37:59 <phrontist> but what does the number mean, exactly
 54 2011-06-22 00:38:04 <phrontist> is it a time unit?
 55 2011-06-22 00:38:13 <phuzion> Not really sure.
 56 2011-06-22 00:38:23 <phrontist> average hashes until block, maybe?
 57 2011-06-22 00:38:30 <phuzion> And realistically, the "longer it takes to mine a block" is only valid if you are the only one on the entire network.
 58 2011-06-22 00:38:44 <phuzion> Realistlcally, it just means that you get less luck in mining.
 59 2011-06-22 00:39:07 <drouta> the coins are alive
 60 2011-06-22 00:39:15 <phrontist> time = difficulty * 2**32 / hashrate
 61 2011-06-22 00:39:20 <phrontist> (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty)
 62 2011-06-22 00:40:34 <phuzion> phrontist: You happen to have a few coins laying around by chance that I could pick up off you?
 63 2011-06-22 00:40:52 <phrontist> ha, funny you should ask - dsockwell just gave me a bunch of his, but they haven't arrived
 64 2011-06-22 00:40:57 <phrontist> (testcoins, that is)
 65 2011-06-22 00:41:01 <phuzion> Oh bummer
 66 2011-06-22 00:41:08 <phuzion> I wasn't going to ask if you would give me legit coins, lol
 67 2011-06-22 00:41:11 <phrontist> I have 1.5, I can give you them
 68 2011-06-22 00:41:25 <phuzion> Sure
 69 2011-06-22 00:41:35 <phrontist> phuzion: address?
 70 2011-06-22 00:42:02 <phuzion> Grrr, bitcoin client is not responding
 71 2011-06-22 00:42:09 <phrontist> https://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/
 72 2011-06-22 00:42:14 <phrontist> that's where I got them :-)
 73 2011-06-22 00:42:22 <phrontist> it says 0.11, but it gave me 0.5 each time
 74 2011-06-22 00:42:23 <phuzion> myGXAoDd6ZvDSxSe98uGuvLpavVZCTjXJK
 75 2011-06-22 00:42:30 <phuzion> Three different accounts?
 76 2011-06-22 00:42:34 <drouta> coinhalla
 77 2011-06-22 00:42:38 <phrontist> I just hit it three times on accident
 78 2011-06-22 00:42:42 <phrontist> well, twice
 79 2011-06-22 00:42:46 <phrontist> the third time was greed.
 80 2011-06-22 00:44:50 <phuzion> Is there a way to speed up downloading of the blockchain by chance?
 81 2011-06-22 00:45:34 <tcatm> phuzion: sure, just download it as a single file
 82 2011-06-22 00:45:49 <phuzion> tcatm: Where can I get it?
 83 2011-06-22 00:45:54 <phrontist> phuzion: I /think/ I just sent you one testcoin
 84 2011-06-22 00:46:00 <phuzion> blockexplorer?
 85 2011-06-22 00:46:09 <phrontist> api is taking a while to respond
 86 2011-06-22 00:46:32 <phrontist> does the api hold the connection open until some aspect of the transaction completes?
 87 2011-06-22 00:46:40 <tcatm> phuzion: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/blockchain/
 88 2011-06-22 00:47:26 <phuzion> tcatm: thanks :)
 89 2011-06-22 00:48:06 <phrontist> phuzion: relevant transaction will show up here: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/search/d6d92900c0138299447bf02b9f13c38805b5209ccfc038348efa6022b6718d07
 90 2011-06-22 00:49:56 <drouta> federal reserve was hacked
 91 2011-06-22 00:50:01 <phuzion> what
 92 2011-06-22 00:50:06 <phuzion> lulzsec again?
 93 2011-06-22 00:50:19 <picci> trading 50usd visa online prepaid card for 5btc
 94 2011-06-22 00:50:35 <picci> ops wrong chan
 95 2011-06-22 01:02:32 <Atterall> What kind of permissions is bitcoind expecting on the wallet.dat file in a Linux operating enviroment ?
 96 2011-06-22 01:05:22 <phrontist> Atterall: I'm new to bc-dev, but if you explained why you were asking I might be able to help
 97 2011-06-22 01:05:37 <tcatm> Atterall: readwrite
 98 2011-06-22 01:05:42 <Atterall> I'm trying to copy my wallet.dat over from my windows 7 install
 99 2011-06-22 01:05:54 <Atterall> <--bit time noob
100 2011-06-22 01:05:58 <Atterall> *big time
101 2011-06-22 01:06:18 <ewal> Atterall: it should be rw for the owner only
102 2011-06-22 01:10:05 <phuzion> Atterall: Try chmod 0700 wallet.dat, see if bitcoind runs with that.  It should.
103 2011-06-22 01:10:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> the NSA has just brought their bitcoin mining cluster online
104 2011-06-22 01:10:13 <BitcoinForNewegg> look at how fast they mine those blocks
105 2011-06-22 01:10:25 <phuzion> BitcoinForNewegg: Proof?
106 2011-06-22 01:10:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> 5 blocks found in 2 mnutes
107 2011-06-22 01:11:13 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats 60 times faster than the network
108 2011-06-22 01:11:35 <idnar> haha
109 2011-06-22 01:12:36 <BitcoinForNewegg> http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/21/NSA.bitcoin.mining.rig/index.html
110 2011-06-22 01:12:37 <BitcoinForNewegg> seeee
111 2011-06-22 01:12:59 <phuzion> hurrr
112 2011-06-22 01:13:21 <Storagewars> durrrr
113 2011-06-22 01:13:30 <Storagewars> borken link
114 2011-06-22 01:13:31 <BitcoinForNewegg> they already took it downh lol
115 2011-06-22 01:13:35 <BitcoinForNewegg> the end is near
116 2011-06-22 01:13:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> sell me your bitcoins now
117 2011-06-22 01:13:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> i mean buy my bitcoins
118 2011-06-22 01:13:48 <BitcoinForNewegg> awww crap
119 2011-06-22 01:14:17 <Storagewars> jesus how did that get up to 13blocks
120 2011-06-22 01:14:20 <phuzion> BitcoinForNewegg: I've got one hell of a "the market is crashing, get out now" deal.  I'll sell you a bitcoin for $40,000,000.
121 2011-06-22 01:14:32 <phuzion> Where are you guys watching this?
122 2011-06-22 01:14:39 <BitcoinForNewegg> im selling them for $13
123 2011-06-22 01:15:03 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats like a thousand percent off
124 2011-06-22 01:15:23 <phrontist> phuzion: watching what?
125 2011-06-22 01:15:27 <phuzion> Yeah, and that's like 1300 times the price I could have bought them at on sunday night
126 2011-06-22 01:15:28 <BitcoinForNewegg> +/- a few orders of magnitude
127 2011-06-22 01:15:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> it is 1300 times the price I paid for them thursday night
128 2011-06-22 01:16:20 <phuzion> mtgox flash-crashed sunday night, right?
129 2011-06-22 01:16:28 <BitcoinForNewegg> err sunday
130 2011-06-22 01:16:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> i got some at $.01 it was so happy
131 2011-06-22 01:16:55 <BitcoinForNewegg> cant wait till they reopen
132 2011-06-22 01:17:05 <phuzion> During the flash crash?
133 2011-06-22 01:17:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> ya
134 2011-06-22 01:17:10 <phuzion> Did you withdraw them?
135 2011-06-22 01:17:15 <BitcoinForNewegg> made so many trades after that
136 2011-06-22 01:17:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> lol im not stupid
137 2011-06-22 01:17:30 <phuzion> ok
138 2011-06-22 01:17:31 <BitcoinForNewegg> of course i withdrew
139 2011-06-22 01:17:41 <phuzion> I was gonna say, you know that they are going to rollback
140 2011-06-22 01:17:48 <BitcoinForNewegg> i hope not
141 2011-06-22 01:17:55 <BitcoinForNewegg> i got so many more in my acct
142 2011-06-22 01:18:08 <phuzion> it's already been confimed that they're rolling back before going live again.
143 2011-06-22 01:18:13 <BitcoinForNewegg> ahhh crap
144 2011-06-22 01:18:18 <BitcoinForNewegg> there goes my fortune
145 2011-06-22 01:18:24 <phuzion> lol
146 2011-06-22 01:18:25 <fiverawr> So your BTC balance will be minus whatever you withdrew
147 2011-06-22 01:18:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> u can have negative balance?
148 2011-06-22 01:18:46 <fiverawr> Yes
149 2011-06-22 01:18:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> cool
150 2011-06-22 01:19:21 <phuzion> How do you guys think I feel now?  I had a wallet with 4 found blocks, 200 total coins, and it got lost in a hard drive crash
151 2011-06-22 01:19:31 <phuzion> I played around with it in the beginning
152 2011-06-22 01:19:34 <BitcoinForNewegg> how bad of a crash
153 2011-06-22 01:19:46 <phuzion> BitcoinForNewegg: Literally zero recoverable data.
154 2011-06-22 01:19:55 <BitcoinForNewegg> like platters are seethru?
155 2011-06-22 01:20:11 <phuzion> I tried for quite a while, I had some stuff on there that I really would have liked to have back, but it's gone.
156 2011-06-22 01:20:12 <BitcoinForNewegg> or melted to slag?
157 2011-06-22 01:20:19 <phuzion> more or less melted to a slag.
158 2011-06-22 01:20:28 <BitcoinForNewegg> theres some data recovery places that will for $100 tellyou if they can reover it
159 2011-06-22 01:20:42 <BitcoinForNewegg> then its a few k for revovery
160 2011-06-22 01:20:42 <phuzion> It's a moot point now, because I shredded the drive at work, because there were some files on there I didn't want recovered (work stuff)/.
161 2011-06-22 01:20:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> :(
162 2011-06-22 01:21:01 <alystair> BitcoinForNewegg: where's bitcoinforamazon ;O
163 2011-06-22 01:21:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> no clue
164 2011-06-22 01:21:18 <BitcoinForNewegg> i need like 50 more coins tho
165 2011-06-22 01:21:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> *to sell
166 2011-06-22 01:22:00 <alystair> I'll sell you 100 coins @ $25 each ;O
167 2011-06-22 01:22:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> i am selling coins
168 2011-06-22 01:22:12 <alystair> oh.
169 2011-06-22 01:22:16 <BitcoinForNewegg> $13
170 2011-06-22 01:22:27 <alystair> also, not for this room.
171 2011-06-22 01:24:15 <phuzion> I'm still getting (not connected) in the testnet mode.  Anything I need to do?  18333 is forwarded to the machine, etc
172 2011-06-22 01:25:28 <xelister> phuzion: what is your IP
173 2011-06-22 01:25:38 <phuzion> xelister: What do you need it for?
174 2011-06-22 01:25:41 <phuzion> Just curious
175 2011-06-22 01:26:00 <phuzion> Gonna see if you can connect to the client?
176 2011-06-22 01:26:17 <xelister> phuzion: yea
177 2011-06-22 01:26:27 <xelister> not client, the bitcoin test node
178 2011-06-22 01:27:02 <xelister> again, what IP is used by testnet mode bitcoin node2node?
179 2011-06-22 01:27:25 <markio> hey
180 2011-06-22 01:27:34 <xelister> wadup markio
181 2011-06-22 01:39:49 <samlander> any news on when gox is going to relaunch?
182 2011-06-22 01:40:03 <vragnaroda> nope
183 2011-06-22 01:40:21 <samlander> so which is the next best exchange to use while I wait?
184 2011-06-22 01:40:30 <vragnaroda> -otc
185 2011-06-22 01:40:41 <samlander> ic :)
186 2011-06-22 01:42:15 <assassindrake> anyone know if mtgox will be taking dwolla deposits before the market opens?
187 2011-06-22 01:43:28 <vragnaroda> assassindrake: people have sent mtgox money through dwolla while it's been down, so yeah
188 2011-06-22 01:43:44 <vragnaroda> but they might not give you their little guide on how to send it :)
189 2011-06-22 01:43:54 <vragnaroda> (and this doesn't belong in -dev)
190 2011-06-22 01:43:55 <assassindrake> plz
191 2011-06-22 01:44:03 <assassindrake> noted
192 2011-06-22 01:44:09 <assassindrake> where then?
193 2011-06-22 01:45:04 <copumpkin> #mtgox probably
194 2011-06-22 01:45:09 <copumpkin> if I were to guess :)
195 2011-06-22 01:49:24 <vragnaroda> there are a lot of #bitcoin- channels
196 2011-06-22 01:52:59 <ne0futur> samlander: i d expect 1-3 days now
197 2011-06-22 01:53:13 <luke-jr> samlander: there is also tradehill
198 2011-06-22 01:53:31 <luke-jr> samlander: you can use referral code TH-R12147 for discounted fees
199 2011-06-22 01:53:42 <luke-jr> samlander: (and part of your fees also go to Eligius)
200 2011-06-22 02:14:15 <RevolutionMasta> I have a recommendation for the devs: Cut the difficulty factor in half, but ALSO cut the block bonus in half
201 2011-06-22 02:14:34 <RevolutionMasta> It will have minimal impact on miners,but it will make the block chain move faster
202 2011-06-22 02:14:44 <grug> i have a recommendation for you: you are retarded
203 2011-06-22 02:14:51 <vragnaroda> ^^
204 2011-06-22 02:15:31 <copumpkin> grug: that's not really a recommendation
205 2011-06-22 02:15:34 <copumpkin> more of a statement
206 2011-06-22 02:15:56 <vragnaroda> herp derp, bitcoin is flawed, so we have to change it and break all the existing clients that no one will upgrade in time anyway, and some will patch to make incompatible with a new bitcoin-fork that nobody likes
207 2011-06-22 02:18:26 <rawr> as in the fork where the price dropped?
208 2011-06-22 02:21:16 <grug> copumpkin: hahaha
209 2011-06-22 02:35:41 <llama> ok I restored a backup wallet on bitcoin.app for mac
210 2011-06-22 02:35:54 <llama> and it shows a 0 balance
211 2011-06-22 02:35:58 <llama> I tried -rescan, no help
212 2011-06-22 02:36:12 <llama> it shows all the transactions, and it has all the blocks. The wallet.dat works fine and shows the balance on a bitcoind client on linux. Any ideas?
213 2011-06-22 02:36:32 <nanotube> llama: using latest version?
214 2011-06-22 02:36:45 <llama> 0.3.23bet
215 2011-06-22 02:36:46 <llama> *beta
216 2011-06-22 02:36:47 <llama> yea
217 2011-06-22 02:37:06 <nanotube> hrm well... try redownloading the block chain heh
218 2011-06-22 02:37:14 <llama> bleh
219 2011-06-22 02:37:23 <llama> ok...
220 2011-06-22 02:37:39 <llama> maybe rescan isn't working on mac? (auto or manual?)
221 2011-06-22 02:37:45 <llama> its odd
222 2011-06-22 02:39:25 <xelister> who is running testnodes?   best, all the time?
223 2011-06-22 02:40:05 <xelister> nanotube: are you running a test node (best 24/7) ?
224 2011-06-22 02:40:35 <nanotube> llama: dunno, seems like a bug worth filing.
225 2011-06-22 02:40:41 <nanotube> xelister: nope
226 2011-06-22 02:40:52 <llama> yea
227 2011-06-22 02:40:52 <nanotube> xelister: blockexplorer is running one
228 2011-06-22 02:41:09 <llama> ill look into it a bit more. Mac client sucks...really need a cocoa version
229 2011-06-22 02:41:29 <copumpkin> llama: ericmock is working on one
230 2011-06-22 02:41:34 <copumpkin> you could join his efforts
231 2011-06-22 02:41:52 <llama> ill look into it, I might
232 2011-06-22 02:41:57 <llama> I have a bit of experience
233 2011-06-22 02:44:31 <xelister> whre are mapargs loaded?
234 2011-06-22 02:45:20 <phrontist> anyone have any theories as to why I would show a balance of 30.5 (after someone sent it) then back to 0.5, then back to 30.5, over the space of 3 hours?
235 2011-06-22 02:45:31 <phrontist> no transactions were initiated, as far as I can tell
236 2011-06-22 02:45:54 <phrontist> this is the latest client, testnet, fwiw
237 2011-06-22 02:49:33 <phrontist> do chain splits occur in regular operation of a network, or is it always a sign of pathological client behavior?
238 2011-06-22 02:50:12 <phrontist> I mean, it's fundamentally a disagreement on legitimacy between two subsets of clients, right?
239 2011-06-22 02:50:26 <gmaxwell> Single block splits happen, though its unusual to have big transaction differences on them.
240 2011-06-22 02:50:39 <phrontist> and they eventually settle out, right?
241 2011-06-22 02:50:52 <gmaxwell> phrontist: not subsets of clients, bitcoin is not a voting system.
242 2011-06-22 02:50:54 <gmaxwell> Yes, the system provides eventual consistency.
243 2011-06-22 02:50:59 <phrontist> sure, but it's entirely possible for the system to break into a dozen pieces at any given time
244 2011-06-22 02:51:10 <gmaxwell> But you actually saw this as a balance and not just unconfirmed txn sitting in your client?
245 2011-06-22 02:51:30 <phrontist> it won't, practically
246 2011-06-22 02:51:32 <phrontist> but mathematically/algorithmically
247 2011-06-22 02:51:33 <gmaxwell> phrontist: what client is this?
248 2011-06-22 02:51:35 <phrontist> through the api
249 2011-06-22 02:51:51 <phrontist> uh, "version":32002
250 2011-06-22 02:51:55 <gmaxwell> IIRC getbalance does not count inputs until they are 6 blocks deep.
251 2011-06-22 02:52:12 <phrontist> used the getinfo API call
252 2011-06-22 02:52:17 <phrontist> and getbalance
253 2011-06-22 02:52:28 <llama> thats why
254 2011-06-22 02:52:36 <phrontist> "inputs"?
255 2011-06-22 02:52:38 <llama> they probably have different default minconf's
256 2011-06-22 02:52:48 <phrontist> well, the commands always agreed
257 2011-06-22 02:52:52 <gmaxwell> I don't think getinfo shows unconfirmed transactions either.
258 2011-06-22 02:53:32 <phrontist> getinfo showed 0.5 [10 minutes elapse] 30.5 [1 hour] 0.5 [1 hour] 30.5
259 2011-06-22 02:53:38 <phrontist> times very approximate
260 2011-06-22 02:53:55 <llama> oh...
261 2011-06-22 02:54:10 <phrontist> no
262 2011-06-22 02:54:13 <llama> was it just "getbalance" or "getbalance '*'" ?
263 2011-06-22 02:54:31 <phrontist> curl --data-binary '{"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "getinfo", "params": [] }' -H 'content-type: text/plain;' http://127.0.0.1:8332/
264 2011-06-22 02:54:44 <llama> hmm
265 2011-06-22 02:55:14 <phrontist> well I'm glad you find it confusing :-)
266 2011-06-22 02:55:32 <gmaxwell> Well, the timeline you provided is inconsistent with how bitcoin works.
267 2011-06-22 02:55:50 <gmaxwell> Was there some balance counting bug in .20?
268 2011-06-22 02:56:23 <llama> was the 30.5 sent in a single tx?
269 2011-06-22 02:56:39 <llama> you had zero balance, then received 30.5 all at once?
270 2011-06-22 02:57:10 <phrontist> the 30 was sent in one tx, afaik
271 2011-06-22 02:57:18 <phrontist> it was from someone in this channel, blanking on the name
272 2011-06-22 02:57:28 <phrontist> and no, I had 0.5 to start with
273 2011-06-22 02:57:42 <llama> did you send any tx's from the client?
274 2011-06-22 02:57:48 <phrontist> no
275 2011-06-22 02:58:01 <gmaxwell> phrontist: did you happen to see your block count when this all happened?
276 2011-06-22 02:58:06 <phrontist> no, sorry
277 2011-06-22 02:58:10 <gmaxwell> phrontist: and do you have generation enabled?
278 2011-06-22 02:58:14 <phrontist> I do
279 2011-06-22 02:58:17 <gmaxwell> hahaha
280 2011-06-22 02:58:26 <llama> lol
281 2011-06-22 02:58:27 <phrontist> :-) ?
282 2011-06-22 02:58:33 <gmaxwell> phrontist: did you just bring this node up recently?
283 2011-06-22 02:58:40 <phrontist> bring what up?
284 2011-06-22 02:58:45 <phrontist> generation?
285 2011-06-22 02:58:46 <gmaxwell> Your copy of bitcoin.
286 2011-06-22 02:58:51 <phrontist> yeah
287 2011-06-22 02:59:00 <phrontist> 6 hours ago?
288 2011-06-22 02:59:16 <phrontist> still confused...
289 2011-06-22 02:59:25 <gmaxwell> Right. Here is what happened. You were out of sync with the network. You didn't have the blockchain yet, or at least not much of it. You heard about the transaction over the network
290 2011-06-22 02:59:40 <llama> ahh yea!
291 2011-06-22 02:59:42 <gmaxwell> Then _you_ generated a block that contained it. Making it show up as confirmed.
292 2011-06-22 03:00:03 <gmaxwell> But your block was extending some long ago part of the chain, it had no hope of surviving.
293 2011-06-22 03:00:14 <phrontist> ohhhhh
294 2011-06-22 03:00:19 <gmaxwell> So once your client got more data from the network ... poof balance gone.
295 2011-06-22 03:00:36 <phrontist> riiiiiight
296 2011-06-22 03:00:39 <phrontist> then it came back when someone else confirmed it
297 2011-06-22 03:00:49 <phrontist> yeah.
298 2011-06-22 03:00:53 <phrontist> very clever.
299 2011-06-22 03:00:58 <gmaxwell> Then it finally caught up with the real network which probably confirmed it 10 minutes after it was sent. :)
300 2011-06-22 03:01:25 <gmaxwell> Well, there are bugs in the initial bringup now.
301 2011-06-22 03:01:38 <gmaxwell> The process of fetching the blockchain triggers anti-flooding logic in your peers and they drop your connection. (DOH)
302 2011-06-22 03:01:42 <gmaxwell> so it goes slowly.
303 2011-06-22 03:01:43 <Diablo-D3> ...
304 2011-06-22 03:01:43 <llama> I thought gen didn't enable itself until the block chain was was done downloading?
305 2011-06-22 03:01:56 <gmaxwell> I thought if you forced it on it would go on.
306 2011-06-22 03:02:00 <llama> there goes that theory...
307 2011-06-22 03:02:09 <gmaxwell> man, but it fits the behavior perfectly.
308 2011-06-22 03:02:12 <llama> grep the log
309 2011-06-22 03:02:15 <phrontist> well I get a "hashespersec":2082573
310 2011-06-22 03:02:18 <phrontist> and did during all this
311 2011-06-22 03:02:21 <gmaxwell> ha!
312 2011-06-22 03:02:22 <gmaxwell> see!
313 2011-06-22 03:02:23 <Diablo-D3> maybe someone broke it
314 2011-06-22 03:02:28 <phrontist> so... pretty sure it was generating
315 2011-06-22 03:02:35 <Diablo-D3> didnt gavin's trunk remove generating anyhow?
316 2011-06-22 03:02:37 <llama> grep found db.log
317 2011-06-22 03:02:46 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: just from the gui
318 2011-06-22 03:02:51 <llama> err, debuglog
319 2011-06-22 03:02:53 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: thats retarded
320 2011-06-22 03:02:56 <Diablo-D3> should be removed altogether
321 2011-06-22 03:02:58 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: it's still useful for testnet
322 2011-06-22 03:03:05 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin isnt even the fastest cpu miner
323 2011-06-22 03:03:21 <gmaxwell> I know, but its fine for testnet.
324 2011-06-22 03:03:50 <Diablo-D3> its not realistic on testnet.
325 2011-06-22 03:03:58 <gmaxwell> difficulty there is 38, it's fine.
326 2011-06-22 03:04:06 <phrontist> I would, but I should get back to work
327 2011-06-22 03:04:07 <Diablo-D3> let me rephrase
328 2011-06-22 03:04:11 <Diablo-D3> its not a realistic use of bitcoin.
329 2011-06-22 03:04:12 <phrontist> assembly programming assignments!
330 2011-06-22 03:04:18 <Diablo-D3> phrontist: hah
331 2011-06-22 03:04:20 <gmaxwell> phrontist: have fun.
332 2011-06-22 03:04:40 <phrontist> actually, it might be fun to try to write a highly optimized miner is assembly
333 2011-06-22 03:04:44 <phrontist> not practical
334 2011-06-22 03:04:47 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: also, actually removing it wouldn't eliminate any code.
335 2011-06-22 03:04:56 <gmaxwell> phrontist: see jgarzik's cpuminer
336 2011-06-22 03:04:57 <phrontist> but I'd learn a lot
337 2011-06-22 03:05:41 <phrontist> C is so high level though :-)
338 2011-06-22 03:05:50 <phrontist> I don't even use macros.
339 2011-06-22 03:06:01 <gmaxwell> phrontist: write super fast ASM ecdsa code using the new i7 CLMUL. Much more useful. :)
340 2011-06-22 03:06:09 <phrontist> or a keyboard... I've just got a shift register on a breadboard in front of me, and I wave magnets to bang bits into it
341 2011-06-22 03:06:23 <upb> wth:P
342 2011-06-22 03:06:37 <gmaxwell> http://xkcd.com/378/
343 2011-06-22 03:06:58 <phrontist> before I go - has there been any talk of a bitcoin conference?
344 2011-06-22 03:07:26 <Diablo-D3> dude
345 2011-06-22 03:07:32 <Diablo-D3> until you pay me to show up at one
346 2011-06-22 03:07:35 <Diablo-D3> Im not going
347 2011-06-22 03:07:50 <phrontist> gmaxwell: exactly
348 2011-06-22 03:07:55 <phrontist> Diablo-D3: why's that?
349 2011-06-22 03:07:58 <upb> hahahaha @ comic
350 2011-06-22 03:08:59 <Diablo-D3> phrontist: dude, fucking conferences are expensive
351 2011-06-22 03:09:04 <Diablo-D3> do I look like Im made of money?
352 2011-06-22 03:41:54 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: I still use the built in bitcoin minner on weeds,  you don't need mega minners on smaller nets
353 2011-06-22 03:43:26 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: ufasoft and cpuminer are like twice as fast.
354 2011-06-22 03:44:04 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: ya but are they setup for multi crypto or do I have to rewrite them also?
355 2011-06-22 03:44:45 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: at 300kh/sec I still mine blocks every 10 minits
356 2011-06-22 03:44:52 <Diablo-D3> jesus
357 2011-06-22 03:44:57 <Diablo-D3> imagine if I used my miner
358 2011-06-22 03:45:01 <Diablo-D3> I'd mine a block every 3 seconds
359 2011-06-22 03:45:13 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: yup
360 2011-06-22 03:45:35 <n4m347yp3> ya, 200 is a bit slower but 300 would be hawt
361 2011-06-22 03:48:26 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: but I'm making a new version that will still only allow 1 block to be created in my new chain on the even of a block on bitcoin to prevent high powered minners to create too many spits
362 2011-06-22 03:48:49 <sacarlson> even = event
363 2011-06-22 03:57:00 <sacarlson> then it just becomes a race after a bitcoin block creation the fastest miners race to create a new block in a different chain
364 2011-06-22 03:58:11 <sacarlson> would that work to prevent what I saw happen in testnet some time back where a split made my account loose 50 tnbtc?
365 2011-06-22 03:59:16 <lfm> sacarlson: that testnet split was a classic "over 50%" hack
366 2011-06-22 04:00:27 <sacarlson> lfm: yes so even with an over 50% attack would limit of creation of blocks at the same rate as bitcoin blocks prevent that?
367 2011-06-22 04:01:59 <lfm> I dont know what you mean. you dont want to use different rules on testnet if you can help it cuz it is suposed to be a test platform for the main net
368 2011-06-22 04:02:25 <sacarlson> lfm: no these rules are on another chain not testnet
369 2011-06-22 04:03:00 <sacarlson> lfm: for example there are other testnets like weeds but I'll make another one for this rule base
370 2011-06-22 04:03:41 <lfm> I still dont understand what you mean. artificially limiting the block rate would probably make you MORE exposed to powerfull groups takeovers
371 2011-06-22 04:04:35 <sacarlson> lfm: I would use the data out of the bitcoin block to prove that time and to limit creation speed
372 2011-06-22 04:04:59 <lfm> i dont see how you could do that
373 2011-06-22 04:05:27 <lfm> you cant prove it wasnt done AFTER the bitcoin block even long after
374 2011-06-22 04:06:52 <sacarlson> lfm: by having the hash of the bitcoin hashed into  each of the blocks created and validating them it would think you could prove time
375 2011-06-22 04:08:41 <lfm> all you prov is it wasnt done before that time, not after or even long after. say I didnt like a block, I take the block chin up to the point just before it and start makeing a fork privately ignoreing what everyone else is doing. If I have more power than the rest put together I will sooner or later have a better fork.
376 2011-06-22 04:09:27 <sacarlson> lfm:your right it won't work
377 2011-06-22 04:10:00 <sacarlson> lfm: they still have 20 minits to play and make forks
378 2011-06-22 04:10:27 <lfm> and if they backdate blocks tey can go bach further
379 2011-06-22 04:10:56 <lfm> they can go back further
380 2011-06-22 04:11:47 <sacarlson> lfm: ya this solution won't work, I'll have to find another way that I hope will not require puting anything into the bitcoin blocks
381 2011-06-22 04:12:47 <sacarlson> lfm: so back to my other method of zero transaction into bitcoin to link into a new chain then
382 2011-06-22 04:13:14 <lfm> sacarlson: its like the block zero signature with the newpaper headline -- it proves it was not made earlier but it could have be made much later
383 2011-06-22 04:13:22 <sacarlson> lfm: were I would have to pay transaction fee's in bitcoin
384 2011-06-22 04:14:25 <kR105> hello, somebody running a testnet node? my bitcoind can't find any node for some reason, so i'm going to try with -addnode, thanks!
385 2011-06-22 04:14:47 <lfm> kr105 I could help you with that
386 2011-06-22 04:15:26 <sacarlson> kR105: I am
387 2011-06-22 04:15:52 <sacarlson> kr105 you can addnode=www.beertokens.info
388 2011-06-22 04:16:10 <lfm> dont you need the number?
389 2011-06-22 04:16:22 <sacarlson> lfm: not with the newer version
390 2011-06-22 04:16:34 <sacarlson> lfm: my version has dns support
391 2011-06-22 04:16:55 <lfm> I am still on 0.3.20 on that machine
392 2011-06-22 04:17:04 <sacarlson> lfm: kR105: but if you have the older version you will have to dns lookup that first
393 2011-06-22 04:17:28 <lfm> 115.87.7.135 ?
394 2011-06-22 04:18:07 <devrandom> [1;3A
395 2011-06-22 04:18:21 <sacarlson> lfm: that sounds like me
396 2011-06-22 04:18:54 <sacarlson> lfm: but it's dynamic so may not be that later
397 2011-06-22 04:19:16 <lfm> ok, I wont put it in the permanent script
398 2011-06-22 04:19:47 <lfm> is     "blocks" : 25469,
399 2011-06-22 04:19:50 <lfm> right?
400 2011-06-22 04:20:23 <sacarlson> lfm: "blocks" : 25469, same here
401 2011-06-22 04:21:38 <lfm> kR105: are you connected yet? what blocks do you have?
402 2011-06-22 04:22:00 <kR105> can't connect, i get this message:
403 2011-06-22 04:22:05 <kR105> trying connection 115.87.7.135:18333 lastseen=-335756.6hrs lasttry=-363534.3hrs connection timeout
404 2011-06-22 04:22:11 <kR105> on the debug.log
405 2011-06-22 04:22:24 <lfm> kR105: can you ping that address?
406 2011-06-22 04:23:22 <lfm> sacarlson: doh you block ping?
407 2011-06-22 04:23:31 <sacarlson> lfm: no I don't think so
408 2011-06-22 04:23:45 <sacarlson> lfm: it should ping ok
409 2011-06-22 04:24:19 <sacarlson> lfm: but if I already have may max of 8 connections would it let him connect?
410 2011-06-22 04:24:39 <lfm> still should I think
411 2011-06-22 04:25:16 <sacarlson> lfm: I bet if I reset and I will need to find new connections his will connect
412 2011-06-22 04:25:45 <kR105> I can ping from my laptop, but not from my server. Also if i telnet to 115.87.7.135:18333 from my laptop i get timeout
413 2011-06-22 04:25:59 <lfm> are you actually using -maxconnect=8?
414 2011-06-22 04:26:20 <sacarlson> lfm: I think that's the default value 8,  I just reset
415 2011-06-22 04:26:37 <lfm> actual its the default minconnect
416 2011-06-22 04:26:45 <sacarlson> lfm: I now have 6 conections
417 2011-06-22 04:27:04 <lfm> sacarlson: I cant actually ping or tracerout you either
418 2011-06-22 04:27:38 <sacarlson> lfm: can you see http://exchange.beertokens.info
419 2011-06-22 04:28:40 <sacarlson> lfm: I'm back up to 8 connections on testnet
420 2011-06-22 04:28:44 <lfm> yup, firefox connects
421 2011-06-22 04:29:08 <sacarlson> lfm: so you can't ping me?
422 2011-06-22 04:29:16 <lfm> someone or something is blocking ping I guess
423 2011-06-22 04:29:36 <sacarlson> lfm: I'll have to check my router setting then
424 2011-06-22 04:30:08 <lfm> traceroute is stopped at 119-46-176-110.static.asianet.co.th (119.46.176.110)
425 2011-06-22 04:34:38 <sacarlson> lfm: must be on my isp side then,  I also note another fault in my router setting I only pass 38333  and not 8333 and 18333  so I will fix that
426 2011-06-22 04:35:13 <lfm> ah that could do it
427 2011-06-22 04:35:28 <sacarlson> lfm: so I was only leting 38333 weeds to connect in
428 2011-06-22 04:37:21 <lfm> gotta go, Ill leave my testnet running, it has a gpu so it should make some blocks too for it.
429 2011-06-22 04:39:39 <kR105> ty it's dowloading the testnet blockchain now :)
430 2011-06-22 04:39:44 <sacarlson> kR105: ok I opened my 18333 port now it should work
431 2011-06-22 04:40:45 <Edogaa> i keep getting mtgox messages :/
432 2011-06-22 04:40:52 <Edogaa> or emails now
433 2011-06-22 04:40:54 <Edogaa> ugh.
434 2011-06-22 04:41:51 <Edogaa> oh, okay this one really is from mtgox
435 2011-06-22 04:42:00 <kR105> the last one is legit
436 2011-06-22 04:42:21 <Edogaa> mmhmm
437 2011-06-22 05:00:48 <egecko> anyone know where the VERSION is actually defined in the src?
438 2011-06-22 05:03:19 <egecko> serialize.h.. of course
439 2011-06-22 05:48:54 <cosurgi> what are ~/.bitcoin/database/log.* files?
440 2011-06-22 06:06:26 <james22> Hello :) Where can i read about how to transfer money from one bitcoin account to another?
441 2011-06-22 06:06:51 <james22> programmatically
442 2011-06-22 06:08:02 <edcba> use the rpc server
443 2011-06-22 06:08:12 <edcba> wait i can't read questions correctly
444 2011-06-22 06:08:16 <edcba> hmm
445 2011-06-22 06:14:13 <sacarlson> james22: and you just want to move from your internal accounts?  you could as edcba said use rpc with curl in a bash script or what language you want to use?
446 2011-06-22 06:15:18 <james22> sacarlson: I would like to move from my internal account to an external accout and also how i can accept bitcoins from an external account
447 2011-06-22 06:15:38 <sacarlson> james22: with php?
448 2011-06-22 06:15:48 <james22> sacarlson: yes ! :)
449 2011-06-22 06:16:32 <sacarlson> james22: a good example is the britcoin exchange in github  I'll look it up or look up
450 2011-06-22 06:17:19 <sacarlson> james22: or take a look at http://www.nostate.com/3962/bitcoin-php-a-php-library-for-bitcoin/
451 2011-06-22 06:18:07 <james22> sacarlson: I will have a look at it. Thanks alot :)
452 2011-06-22 06:21:09 <sacarlson> james22: another very good example of a complete system is http://gitorious.org/intersango/
453 2011-06-22 06:29:04 <Joric> why there's so many closely spaced blocks today? http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com it's totally crazy
454 2011-06-22 06:29:39 <jeremias> the hash rate of the network has risen up dramatically
455 2011-06-22 06:29:43 <Joric> heard network hash total went from 10 to 14 thashes this morning
456 2011-06-22 07:15:39 <tuoppi> MagicalTux: Are the withdrawals that were made before the hassle prosessed normally?
457 2011-06-22 07:15:59 <MagicalTux> tuoppi: SEPA ?
458 2011-06-22 07:16:45 <tuoppi> Yup
459 2011-06-22 07:17:13 <tuoppi> I withdrew last weeks wednesday or thursday and have not received it.
460 2011-06-22 07:17:22 <MagicalTux> yeah, it's still being processed, got a bit late because of the bank's limits
461 2011-06-22 07:17:35 <MagicalTux> if you know your ref id, email it to info@mtgox.com for status
462 2011-06-22 07:18:29 <tuoppi> It can only be seen by logging in to the account afaik, so I dont :(
463 2011-06-22 07:18:36 <MagicalTux> ok
464 2011-06-22 07:18:46 <MagicalTux> anyway processing is still happening today
465 2011-06-22 07:18:54 <tuoppi> ok great, thanks
466 2011-06-22 07:19:06 <MagicalTux> LR however was frozen
467 2011-06-22 07:57:05 <epscy> ;;bc,stats
468 2011-06-22 07:57:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 132532 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 523 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 2 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1330062.51814252
469 2011-06-22 09:01:23 <phedny> I'm working on an interesting idea with some people, but there is one question that we need an answer to to be sure this idea may work
470 2011-06-22 09:01:51 <phedny> if someone creates a transaction of, say, 10 micro-BTC, this will be blocked, as a prevention against DoS
471 2011-06-22 09:02:23 <sipa> if it lacks fee, it will most likely not be relayed through the network
472 2011-06-22 09:02:24 <phedny> but would a transaction with 0.01001 BTC in and 0.00001 BTC out (thus 0.01 BTC fee) go through?
473 2011-06-22 09:02:48 <sipa> yes
474 2011-06-22 09:02:53 <phedny> okay, great :D
475 2011-06-22 09:02:56 <sipa> but that's not the only rule
476 2011-06-22 09:03:52 <sipa> may i ask why such a transaction would be useful?
477 2011-06-22 09:04:22 <PantherModern> Hey
478 2011-06-22 09:04:32 <phedny> because in our concept the micro-BTC has some special meaning and can be attached a much higher value than normal BTC
479 2011-06-22 09:04:44 <phedny> we'll write up a paper soon
480 2011-06-22 09:04:50 <PantherModern> Are there any modules or anything that allow me to open and read wallet.dat in python?
481 2011-06-22 09:05:01 <sipa> gavin's bitcointools
482 2011-06-22 09:05:41 <PantherModern> CAn you send bitcoins with it sipa?
483 2011-06-22 09:05:49 <sipa> no
484 2011-06-22 09:06:14 <prof7bit> what version of miniupnpc do i need to compile? the latest does not seem to work?
485 2011-06-22 09:06:26 <sipa> read the instruction
486 2011-06-22 09:06:27 <sipa> +s
487 2011-06-22 09:06:33 <PantherModern> sipa, Would that be easily possible in python?
488 2011-06-22 09:06:36 <PantherModern> Sending bitcoins that is.
489 2011-06-22 09:07:23 <sipa> PantherModern: if you want to do that, you should connect through rpc with bitcoind
490 2011-06-22 09:07:45 <PantherModern> Thanks
491 2011-06-22 09:07:55 <PantherModern> Shame i can't do it all with one python module. XD
492 2011-06-22 09:08:22 <sipa> well, you need almost a complete bitcoin implementation to do that
493 2011-06-22 09:08:32 <prof7bit> http://pastebin.com/rhUuDtUJ
494 2011-06-22 09:09:04 <sipa> prof7bit: build-unix.txt tells you you need miniupnp 1.5
495 2011-06-22 09:09:21 <sipa> not the latest dev release (which version number also starts with 1.5, unfortunately)
496 2011-06-22 09:09:25 <sipa> *whose
497 2011-06-22 09:09:36 <prof7bit> ok, i will try with 1.5. i just used the latest version.
498 2011-06-22 09:10:50 <prof7bit> and maybe it would be a good idea to put this info into README and INSTALL files where users are looking for it. and maybe even some configure scrit that checks dependencies and gives meaningful errors
499 2011-06-22 09:13:35 <sipa> well, soon we'll switch to autotools, which will all detection of dependencies and versions for you
500 2011-06-22 09:14:27 <prof7bit> ok, the tatest version of miniupnpc that i have installed IS 1.5
501 2011-06-22 09:14:52 <prof7bit> and there seems to be a function called with wrong umber of arguments
502 2011-06-22 09:14:57 <sipa> please
503 2011-06-22 09:15:04 <prof7bit> so this is not the correct version
504 2011-06-22 09:15:06 <sipa> 13:09:21 < sipa> not the latest dev release (which version number also starts with 1.5, unfortunately)
505 2011-06-22 09:17:25 <prof7bit> sorry if i sound a bit unpatient. i spent half of the night to satisfy exotic bleeding edge dependencies on my ubuntu hardy laptop
506 2011-06-22 09:18:08 <prof7bit> it almost compiles now... almost-
507 2011-06-22 09:18:27 <sipa> just download version 1.5
508 2011-06-22 09:18:36 <sipa> not the dev release (which *also* has version 1.5)
509 2011-06-22 09:20:03 <prof7bit> found it. making and installing now...
510 2011-06-22 09:28:33 <prof7bit> ok, net.cpp compiles now ok...
511 2011-06-22 09:30:40 <prof7bit> irc.cpp
512 2011-06-22 09:31:12 <topi`> what's the situation with mtgox now? is magicaltux working on it?
513 2011-06-22 09:34:04 <prof7bit> if i make a patch that will allow it to accept a -wallet parameter on the command line to separately specify path and name of the wallet, are there chances that this would be accepted?
514 2011-06-22 09:35:43 <topi`> prof7bit: if it's clean and doesn't compromise existing functionality, then why not
515 2011-06-22 09:36:23 <MagicalTux> [20:31:12] <topi`> what's the situation with mtgox now? is magicaltux working on it? <- yes, I am
516 2011-06-22 09:36:23 <topi`> prof7bit: the tough dependencies (at least on ubuntu) are the various libboost packages
517 2011-06-22 09:36:30 <xelister> topi`: there's #mtgox
518 2011-06-22 09:36:33 <topi`> MagicalTux: ok, so you're not on vacation :)
519 2011-06-22 09:37:04 <MagicalTux> topi`: unfortunately not
520 2011-06-22 09:37:22 <topi`> MagicalTux: ok, good luck
521 2011-06-22 09:37:39 <prof7bit> libbboost was actually pretty easy: download, unzip, ./bootsrap.sh, then maually copy boost to /usr/include and stage/lib to /usr/lib
522 2011-06-22 09:37:44 <xelister> regarding
523 2011-06-22 09:37:46 <xelister> FLASH NEWS
524 2011-06-22 09:38:13 <xelister> "Unknown BitCoin network currency lobbying group bribes Japan gov 0.5 mil USD to discontinue extradiction laws with USA"
525 2011-06-22 09:38:29 <topi`> prof7bit: ok, I just cherrypicked the right .debs and installed manually
526 2011-06-22 09:38:52 <prof7bit> i don't have the required versions in the hardy repository
527 2011-06-22 09:39:06 <prof7bit> this was the first thing i tried but they are too old
528 2011-06-22 09:40:14 <prof7bit> main.cpp....
529 2011-06-22 09:40:42 <prof7bit> ...c++ compilers are so slooooow.
530 2011-06-22 09:42:06 <prof7bit> (i am used to pascal where you compile and link an entire GUI toolkit and an IDE of the caliber of netbeans in 5 minutes)
531 2011-06-22 09:42:08 <xelister> prof7bit: ofc using -j 4 ?  you can also use some distcc for distributed and/or cached compilation
532 2011-06-22 09:42:18 <xelister> prof7bit: lol I have same experience.
533 2011-06-22 09:42:50 <prof7bit> i only have this old laptop (and an even older desktop PII)
534 2011-06-22 09:44:55 <phantomcircuit> xelister, the issue is memory consumption
535 2011-06-22 09:45:18 <phantomcircuit> the ridiculously unstructured nature of the mainline client means that gcc balloons to about 500MB for each file
536 2011-06-22 09:47:11 <prof7bit> and this is the inherent problem of c where the compiler has to parse each and every header file over and over again.
537 2011-06-22 09:47:34 <prof7bit> rpc.cpp...
538 2011-06-22 09:48:45 <phantomcircuit> yeah that's more a problem of bitcoin than of c
539 2011-06-22 09:48:56 <phantomcircuit> prof7bit, header.h is loverly isn't it
540 2011-06-22 09:50:47 <prof7bit> when doing a lot pascal to have a comparison then it becomes quickly a general problem of c and c++. most people would not believe how fast compiling something could be until they see it with their own eyes.
541 2011-06-22 09:51:10 <yorick> using bitcoind, is there a way to notify my application once a payment has been received?
542 2011-06-22 09:51:24 <yorick> or do I have to poll
543 2011-06-22 09:54:16 <phantomcircuit> yorick, poll, but dont do it to fast you'll crash it...
544 2011-06-22 09:54:29 <prof7bit> what???
545 2011-06-22 09:54:54 <prof7bit> crash?
546 2011-06-22 09:55:01 <phantomcircuit> rapid rpc calls have a tendency to crash bitcoind
547 2011-06-22 09:56:17 <prof7bit> it seems there is a LOT of things to fix until it is ready for productive use
548 2011-06-22 09:57:10 <phantomcircuit> prof7bit, yeah...
549 2011-06-22 10:00:39 <prof7bit> i recently saw a discussion on the forum where someone asked for the ability to specify the path to the wallet on the command line and someone else answered: "whats wrong with symlinks, where is the problem?". I hope this is not the general attitude of the core dev team.
550 2011-06-22 10:01:01 <phantomcircuit> prof7bit, it is more or less
551 2011-06-22 10:01:37 <xelister> prof7bit: well overall windows users should go fuck them with a rake,
552 2011-06-22 10:01:49 <xelister> but indeed it is nice to support options and all, also on lame OSes
553 2011-06-22 10:01:57 <xelister> *themselves
554 2011-06-22 10:01:58 <mtrlt> but symlinks are possible on windows
555 2011-06-22 10:02:03 <mtrlt> at least on win7 :p
556 2011-06-22 10:02:16 <mtrlt> i know because i use 'em
557 2011-06-22 10:02:36 <xelister> indeed mtrlt
558 2011-06-22 10:02:38 <yorick> phantomcircuit: too fast being every second?
559 2011-06-22 10:02:40 <xelister> but almost noone knows that
560 2011-06-22 10:02:43 <xelister> of the users
561 2011-06-22 10:02:53 <mtrlt> well most windows users don't even know what a symlink is :P
562 2011-06-22 10:03:01 <phantomcircuit> yorick, id go more like every 30 seconds minimum
563 2011-06-22 10:03:15 <phantomcircuit> yorick, you can call simple things like getbalance more often
564 2011-06-22 10:03:30 <phantomcircuit> but listtransactions is slow as hell and likely to cause a race condition
565 2011-06-22 10:04:03 <yorick> phantomcircuit: that sounds like bitcoind sucks
566 2011-06-22 10:04:13 <mtrlt> if it can cause a race condition, the code sucks ass
567 2011-06-22 10:04:24 <prof7bit> nobody would consider the symlink as an acceptable solution. never. you wont see this with any other software. imagine trying to edit a file with vi and it could only open one fixed filename and you would have to change a symlink in ~/.vi/ everytime before you start vi.
568 2011-06-22 10:04:39 <BlueMatt> if someone doesnt know what a symlink is, they probably shouldnt be moving their wallet around and such
569 2011-06-22 10:04:42 <phungus> http://www.brendangregg.com/specials.html
570 2011-06-22 10:04:50 <mtrlt> prof7bit: how often do you need to change the wallet?
571 2011-06-22 10:05:01 <phungus> icmpcharger ICMP driver trickle charger.
572 2011-06-22 10:05:02 <phungus> hah
573 2011-06-22 10:05:07 <prof7bit> a lot of times. because i have mmore than one
574 2011-06-22 10:05:33 <yorick> phantomcircuit: so how does mybitcoin do it
575 2011-06-22 10:05:34 <prof7bit> changing the wallet is needed functionality.
576 2011-06-22 10:05:38 <yorick> they have a SCI
577 2011-06-22 10:05:49 <mtrlt> prof7bit: agreed
578 2011-06-22 10:05:56 <yorick> do they just poll?
579 2011-06-22 10:06:01 <phantomcircuit> yorick, they have a single bitcoind and dump to a sql db
580 2011-06-22 10:06:36 <prof7bit> BlueMatt: they are FORCED to move their wallet around all the time because they cannot just open it in-place!
581 2011-06-22 10:07:02 <yorick> phantomcircuit: dump how?
582 2011-06-22 10:07:04 <mtrlt> yea it should be easier to change the wallet. if someone indeed needs many wallets
583 2011-06-22 10:07:32 <phantomcircuit> yorick, they make the rpc calls as often as possible and then put the info into sql
584 2011-06-22 10:07:32 <prof7bit> also there needs to be a way to switch the wallet without restarting the client. 10 minutes startup time and 10 minutes shutdown time for switching the wallet is inacceptable.
585 2011-06-22 10:08:41 <MrSam> hmm
586 2011-06-22 10:08:44 <yorick> phantomcircuit: well that sucks
587 2011-06-22 10:08:45 <MrSam> anyone here
588 2011-06-22 10:09:08 <yorick> MrSam: no
589 2011-06-22 10:09:31 <mtrlt> never
590 2011-06-22 10:09:36 <MrSam> i'm a bit struggeling with pushpool rewrite target, since i'm on my own network where the target is "difficulty" : 0.12500000,
591 2011-06-22 10:09:55 <MrSam> so pushpool always thinks that the result is not valid enough to give to the bitcoind
592 2011-06-22 10:10:13 <mtrlt> you shouldn't go easier than H==0 diff anyway :p
593 2011-06-22 10:10:19 <MrSam> preventing pushpool to do that is not an issue
594 2011-06-22 10:10:20 <MrSam> but
595 2011-06-22 10:10:33 <MrSam> #define EASY_TARGET "00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000"
596 2011-06-22 10:10:40 <MrSam> what is easy target here ?
597 2011-06-22 10:10:44 <mtrlt> that's diff 1
598 2011-06-22 10:10:48 <MrSam> bleh
599 2011-06-22 10:11:06 <yorick> phantomcircuit: can't bitcoind be patched to do that better?
600 2011-06-22 10:11:15 <mtrlt> but most miners can't handle targets higher than H==0 (first 8 hexadecimals 0, rest F)
601 2011-06-22 10:11:20 <phantomcircuit> yorick, probably
602 2011-06-22 10:11:29 <mtrlt> probably none can
603 2011-06-22 10:11:33 <yorick> and it is not because?
604 2011-06-22 10:11:37 <MrSam> mtrlt: yeah thats the default setting
605 2011-06-22 10:12:04 <MrSam> hmm
606 2011-06-22 10:12:19 <phantomcircuit> yorick, the code base is so bad you might break something worse trying to fix it
607 2011-06-22 10:12:22 <MrSam> the best solution would be to find a testnet in a box wallet with difficulty 2 or so
608 2011-06-22 10:12:37 <MrSam> because testnet itself is 60 or 70 i think
609 2011-06-22 10:13:30 <MrSam> and http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/ is 1 as well
610 2011-06-22 10:13:42 <MrSam> so pushpool would stil think that al submits are a proof of concept
611 2011-06-22 10:14:01 <xelister> MrSam: working on jgarzik'z pool?
612 2011-06-22 10:14:07 <MrSam> not really
613 2011-06-22 10:14:17 <xelister> wait, define. that is in the client?
614 2011-06-22 10:14:35 <MrSam> nah pushpool
615 2011-06-22 10:14:51 <MrSam> to rewrite targets given to clients
616 2011-06-22 10:15:02 <MrSam> anyway, thx
617 2011-06-22 10:15:20 <MrSam> conclusion is that i need to get my testnetwork's difficulty over 1
618 2011-06-22 10:15:32 <xelister> hi MaueButt o/
619 2011-06-22 10:15:35 <xelister> erm, BlueMatt
620 2011-06-22 10:17:50 <kinlo> what is the third parameter for the listtransactions command?
621 2011-06-22 10:20:15 <kinlo> the help says from, but I don't understand it, does that mean if I say listtransactions "" 4 2 I get transaction 2-6 from the database?
622 2011-06-22 10:23:24 <BlueMatt> prof7bit: what are you talking about?
623 2011-06-22 10:23:41 <BlueMatt> xelister: hi, sorry Im about to leave in a sec though
624 2011-06-22 10:28:47 <prof7bit> BlueMatt: you said if someone does not know how to make symlinks he should not use more than one wallet and should not even try to move it around. I said if someone cannot use symlinks he is FORDED to move the wallet around all the time. whats the problem with making it a command line parameter and making File->open wallet menu entry? Show me only ONE other software where one is required to change symlinks everytime one wants
625 2011-06-22 10:28:48 <prof7bit> to open/edit a different file with the software?
626 2011-06-22 10:29:29 <BlueMatt> no, the symlink thing is not related to multiple wallets
627 2011-06-22 10:29:34 <BlueMatt> its an entirely different issue
628 2011-06-22 10:29:36 <prof7bit> it is
629 2011-06-22 10:30:05 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: it's actually not a simple thing to make it so you can specify the wallet path because bitcoin uses multiple bdb dbs and currently the db_home or w/e bdb calls it for all of them are in the same place
630 2011-06-22 10:30:07 <BlueMatt> the symlink discussion is about using symlinks to use, say, a wallet file in one dir, and the rest of the dbs in another
631 2011-06-22 10:30:23 <BlueMatt> which is hard due to what jrmithdobbs said
632 2011-06-22 10:30:26 <BlueMatt> bdb crap
633 2011-06-22 10:30:32 <sipa> but we should move there eventually
634 2011-06-22 10:30:44 <BlueMatt> eventually, but its just not high on the priorities list
635 2011-06-22 10:30:51 <prof7bit> there is no way to open a different wallet without moving the original wallet and then making a symlink to the other wallet
636 2011-06-22 10:30:52 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: and i wouldn't suggest using a symlink like bluematt suggests because then you'll have bdb logs that reference different wallet.dats all stored in the same place
637 2011-06-22 10:30:58 <BlueMatt> general cleanup esp of rpc is much, much higher
638 2011-06-22 10:31:08 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: which could end badly if you try to restore from said logs to the wrong wallet accidentally
639 2011-06-22 10:31:25 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: oh, well I wasnt suggesting that, I just know some people do
640 2011-06-22 10:31:37 <jrmithdobbs> well whoever suggests it, I wouldn't ;p
641 2011-06-22 10:31:44 <BlueMatt> yep
642 2011-06-22 10:32:03 <prof7bit> BlueMatt: what is the problem with making the path configurable?
643 2011-06-22 10:32:10 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: bdb
644 2011-06-22 10:32:12 <BlueMatt> prof7bit: it is
645 2011-06-22 10:32:14 <BlueMatt> -datadir
646 2011-06-22 10:32:26 <BlueMatt> but beyond that, bdb makes it hard (with the current system)
647 2011-06-22 10:32:38 <sipa> BlueMatt: did you make a walletclass+autotools merge already?
648 2011-06-22 10:32:47 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: it's a combination of bdb and satoshi's failure at abstraction throughout the bitcoin code
649 2011-06-22 10:33:00 <jrmithdobbs> complete and utter failure
650 2011-06-22 10:33:01 <sipa> yup
651 2011-06-22 10:33:13 <prof7bit> can it be fixed?
652 2011-06-22 10:33:15 <BlueMatt> sipa: well, I decided not to bother because jaromil said he would, but afaik he still hasnt so maybe I will eventually
653 2011-06-22 10:33:33 <BlueMatt> prof7bit: eventually, but thats part of the long-term general cleanup
654 2011-06-22 10:33:42 <prof7bit> can the bdb logs be deleted?
655 2011-06-22 10:33:58 <BlueMatt> if it is clean
656 2011-06-22 10:33:59 <jrmithdobbs> i wouldn't
657 2011-06-22 10:34:15 <BlueMatt> theoretically its fine if bitcoin closed fine, but still not advisable
658 2011-06-22 10:34:21 <jrmithdobbs> but yes if you make sure the dbs are clean before deleting/moving the logs, yes
659 2011-06-22 10:34:59 <jrmithdobbs> i think bdb should be dropped and replaced with a more suitable storage format tbqh (at least for wallet)