1 2011-07-01 00:00:03 <xelister> folklore: not sure what number of btc have to do with # of users
  2 2011-07-01 00:00:26 <folklore> xelister it shows the amount of activity, given how hard it is to generate bitcoins as it increases
  3 2011-07-01 00:00:36 <folklore> 6 million in 2 and a half years is a lot
  4 2011-07-01 00:00:41 <folklore> almost 7 million
  5 2011-07-01 00:01:06 <xelister> folklore: well the amount of BTC is basically known, pre programmed. you would have similar amount of BTC even with just 2 users, just the diff would be low
  6 2011-07-01 00:01:14 <xelister> difficulty
  7 2011-07-01 00:01:30 <xelister> and diff, while impressive, just realtes to number of *miners* and there can be say x100 more users
  8 2011-07-01 00:01:35 <xelister> or x10 less or wahtever
  9 2011-07-01 00:01:39 <folklore> sure, but the difficult imho is quite high, also you guys have thousands of nodes, that's more than Tor
 10 2011-07-01 00:01:46 <folklore> they have about a 1000 exit nodes
 11 2011-07-01 00:01:49 <folklore> and been around awhile
 12 2011-07-01 00:01:49 <xelister> yea
 13 2011-07-01 00:02:02 <xelister> freenet has ~15,000 nodes (for comparsion)
 14 2011-07-01 00:02:24 <cacheson> folklore: still, none of this has any bearing on whether bitcoin.org should have an official forum
 15 2011-07-01 00:02:51 <folklore> cacheson Tor has a professional,stupid easy, very informative site, they don't have a forum, but they should
 16 2011-07-01 00:02:52 <cacheson> much less an official general-purpose discussion forum
 17 2011-07-01 00:03:01 <cacheson> folklore: why should they?
 18 2011-07-01 00:03:26 <folklore> bitcoin is an ever increasing in popularity tech and people have a lot of questions, the forums allow people to come together, share time, energy, resources to help grow the bitcoin community
 19 2011-07-01 00:03:34 <folklore> blockexplorer probably wouldn't exist if not for the forums
 20 2011-07-01 00:03:37 <cacheson> folklore: they can do that on unofficial forums
 21 2011-07-01 00:03:45 <folklore> it's not the same
 22 2011-07-01 00:04:01 <cacheson> of course it's not the same, that's the idea
 23 2011-07-01 00:04:09 <cacheson> unofficial forums aren't such a giant troll magnet
 24 2011-07-01 00:04:34 <justmoon> I don't think the forums will change very much - if at all
 25 2011-07-01 00:04:46 <Diablo-D3> bullsit
 26 2011-07-01 00:04:48 <Diablo-D3> yes they are
 27 2011-07-01 00:04:50 <Diablo-D3> example
 28 2011-07-01 00:04:51 <Diablo-D3> gimeee
 29 2011-07-01 00:05:20 <justmoon> gimeee?
 30 2011-07-01 00:05:51 <tower> gimme lol
 31 2011-07-01 00:06:17 <justmoon> tower, there is a user called GimEEE on the forums, but no idea what Diablo-D3 is talking about
 32 2011-07-01 00:06:31 <Diablo-D3> justmoon: are you retarded?
 33 2011-07-01 00:06:37 <justmoon> no
 34 2011-07-01 00:06:38 <Diablo-D3> theres only one gimeee
 35 2011-07-01 00:06:39 <Diablo-D3> thats hi
 36 2011-07-01 00:06:40 <folklore> so you let a few bad apples ruin everything? that's non-sense, set new rules and enforce them, need help? get some more mods
 37 2011-07-01 00:06:43 <Diablo-D3> *him
 38 2011-07-01 00:06:43 <folklore> sure plenty ready to help
 39 2011-07-01 00:06:55 <Diablo-D3> folklore: theymos wont ban him
 40 2011-07-01 00:07:02 <folklore> don't make everyone suffer because you want to fold like a lawn chair to the bullies and trouble makers
 41 2011-07-01 00:07:42 <cacheson> folklore: there are a lot more than just "a few bad apples" on the bitcoin forum
 42 2011-07-01 00:07:47 <folklore> nothing worth doing is easy
 43 2011-07-01 00:07:56 <justmoon> Diablo-D3, I said that moving the forum to a different domain won't change anything with respect to troll activity, your response was "gimeee" - I do not follow your argument
 44 2011-07-01 00:07:58 <cacheson> folklore: and you can say what you like about setting and enforcing new rules, but it hasn't been happening
 45 2011-07-01 00:08:13 <folklore> cacheson why not? whos in charge
 46 2011-07-01 00:08:24 <cacheson> folklore: sirius, I believe
 47 2011-07-01 00:08:32 <folklore> it's not rocket science, first you send a loud and clear warning, so all members see it
 48 2011-07-01 00:08:40 <gmaxwell> justmoon: past discussions in here convinced me that the troll activity is mostly a leadership problem.
 49 2011-07-01 00:08:43 <folklore> those that continue to violate, maybe warn them again in pm, or temp ban
 50 2011-07-01 00:08:46 <Diablo-D3> justmoon: dude, I just wanna ban people
 51 2011-07-01 00:08:49 <folklore> they'll stop
 52 2011-07-01 00:09:18 <folklore> I don't like the ideas of bans, unfortunately is needed sometimes
 53 2011-07-01 00:09:30 <gmaxwell> Because the powers that be are disinterested in encouraging reasonable behavior though any means, because they don't actually see project embarassing behavior as .. well.. embarassing.
 54 2011-07-01 00:09:53 <gmaxwell> 19:01 < folklore> they have about a 1000 exit nodes
 55 2011-07-01 00:10:06 <folklore> yes
 56 2011-07-01 00:10:11 <gmaxwell> dude, you made that incorrect claim earlier and I corrected you.
 57 2011-07-01 00:10:12 <folklore> I downloaded the entire list today
 58 2011-07-01 00:10:21 <cacheson> folklore: people have been demanding that for a long time now, and it hasn't been happening.  the forum is still a giant cesspool
 59 2011-07-01 00:10:27 <folklore> no I didn't you misunderstood
 60 2011-07-01 00:10:36 <folklore> they have a 1000 exit nodes
 61 2011-07-01 00:10:44 <justmoon> gmaxwell, yes they do, that's why they're moving the forum
 62 2011-07-01 00:10:48 <folklore> not all are active and majority of traffic does go through the same few boxes
 63 2011-07-01 00:10:53 <gmaxwell> folklore: There are about 4000 exit nodes.
 64 2011-07-01 00:10:59 <folklore> check out magies etc...Tor creator does it for speed
 65 2011-07-01 00:11:04 <folklore> gmaxwell no
 66 2011-07-01 00:11:10 <gmaxwell> folklore: and two orders of magnitude more non-exit nodes.
 67 2011-07-01 00:11:38 <cacheson> justmoon: from what I can tell, there's a bit of a disconnect between the devs and the forum admins
 68 2011-07-01 00:11:38 <gmaxwell> folklore: 3643 in the full directory right now.
 69 2011-07-01 00:11:50 <folklore> http://torstatus.blutmagie.de/ip_list_exit.php/Tor_ip_list_EXIT.csv
 70 2011-07-01 00:12:03 <justmoon> cacheson, yep, if nothing else they dragged their heels about the forum move
 71 2011-07-01 00:12:06 <folklore> for all nodes
 72 2011-07-01 00:12:48 <gmaxwell> folklore: I have no clue why it's incomplete, but it is.
 73 2011-07-01 00:13:01 <folklore> gmaxwell if you're looking in vidialia, difference between relay and or node and exit node
 74 2011-07-01 00:13:10 <folklore> most don'twanna be exit node cause of blacklist
 75 2011-07-01 00:13:33 <gmaxwell> folklore: I'm not looking at vidialia. I've written tor directory tools, and I'm parsing the directory directly.
 76 2011-07-01 00:13:44 <gmaxwell> I'm quite familar with how tor works.
 77 2011-07-01 00:14:04 <folklore> good maybe you can write a branch to extract the current exit node ip easier :P cause right now is hard
 78 2011-07-01 00:14:14 <folklore> through the control port please, thanks ;)
 79 2011-07-01 00:15:19 <folklore> anyway back the forums, I really think they're essential
 80 2011-07-01 00:15:41 <folklore> might be tricky initally to cleanup, but after that people will get it, and it'll be better for everyone
 81 2011-07-01 00:15:56 <folklore> I haven't seen any illegal stuff myself, seen lot of quality posts though
 82 2011-07-01 00:16:23 <gmaxwell> folklore: you've been fortunate and mostly staying around the technical posts then.
 83 2011-07-01 00:16:49 <folklore> I try to focus on my attention on the quality stuff yeah
 84 2011-07-01 00:16:55 <folklore> that's with any forum though
 85 2011-07-01 00:18:58 <denisx> did really nobody took a look at http://davids.webmaster.com/~davids/bitcoin-3diff.txt
 86 2011-07-01 00:19:02 <ius> 04:11 < cacheson> justmoon: from what I can tell, there's a bit of a disconnect between the devs and the forum admins
 87 2011-07-01 00:19:44 <ius> Has there been any public disucssion of those issues? I realise the developers (tm) may not have much time for it, but keeping the forum userbase together still might be in the best interest of bitcoin
 88 2011-07-01 00:20:06 <gmaxwell> denisx: I superduper-NAK on 'hubmode' patch.
 89 2011-07-01 00:20:11 <folklore> i agree ius
 90 2011-07-01 00:20:24 <denisx> gmaxwell: and point 1 and 2?
 91 2011-07-01 00:20:28 <gmaxwell> we're already dangerously low on sockets and you want to make nodes use an order of magnitude more.
 92 2011-07-01 00:20:47 <cacheson> ius: it's just from what I've heard in this channel
 93 2011-07-01 00:20:58 <gmaxwell> (2)  I've run for al ong time. (or at least some version of it)
 94 2011-07-01 00:21:35 <gmaxwell> (1) is meh. I'm not too woried about miner specific features in trunk generally.
 95 2011-07-01 00:21:54 <ius> cacheson: Yeah so I've heard too. From BlueMatt or jgarzik, can't recall. I do agree it's messy and needs more clear policies/moderations.
 96 2011-07-01 00:22:18 <folklore> just wish all those that are the head of bitcoin understood how pivital and important bitcoin is becoming, and the potential, and the calling for them to lead professionally
 97 2011-07-01 00:23:03 <gmaxwell> denisx: I've been using a different version of (4) that only threads the getworks. I'd want to test the heck out of that to make sure it doesn't expose race conditions.
 98 2011-07-01 00:23:56 <folklore> development only half the battle, marketing is where its at
 99 2011-07-01 00:23:56 <gmaxwell> folklore: You realize that "just wish all those that are the head of bitcoin understood" is insulting, right?
100 2011-07-01 00:24:07 <folklore> and all the bitcoin main devs can make tons of profit through donations
101 2011-07-01 00:24:28 <folklore> gmaxwell it's not insulting at all, clearly theres some confusion, so clearly they don't all understand
102 2011-07-01 00:24:50 <folklore> i'm not about harping on problems, i'm about trying to find solutions
103 2011-07-01 00:24:54 <gmaxwell> Who is confused about what? Don't cast vage accusations.
104 2011-07-01 00:24:58 <gmaxwell> er vague.
105 2011-07-01 00:25:26 <folklore> stop trying to cause conflict gmaxwell, I get you contribute code, and that's great, but that doesn't mean you're a cheif
106 2011-07-01 00:25:37 <gmaxwell> ...
107 2011-07-01 00:26:22 <folklore> chief rather, too many chiefs and not enough indians isn't good
108 2011-07-01 00:26:36 <folklore> :)
109 2011-07-01 00:27:15 <gmaxwell> I never claimed to be anything. You however are claiming that the core developers do not "understand how pivital and important bitcoin is becoming", and you responded to my insistance that you be specific about your insults with ad hominem.
110 2011-07-01 00:27:33 <folklore> we've discussed this before in other channels
111 2011-07-01 00:28:22 <folklore> and i'm not "insulting" anyone, see this is why I don't wanna discuss this with you again, you're looking to cause conflict, where there is none, all because I disagreed with you on cryptography or whatever else
112 2011-07-01 00:28:28 <Diablo-D3> http://bitcoin-shitlist.com/
113 2011-07-01 00:28:33 <folklore> so i'm gonna bow out the discussion with you
114 2011-07-01 00:28:39 <gmaxwell> I don't even know what you're talking about.
115 2011-07-01 00:28:55 <gmaxwell> Frankly you haven't been memorable enough to stay in my mind very long.
116 2011-07-01 00:29:28 <gmaxwell> And I may have had you on ignore when you discussed whatever you're thinking of, if I wasn't responding. Because I've been /ignoring you when you go offtopic in here and won't quit.
117 2011-07-01 00:29:33 <folklore> as I said before, you're clearly hurt over me disagreeing with you in the past, so are looking to cause conflict
118 2011-07-01 00:29:37 <folklore> I'm not, so let it go
119 2011-07-01 00:29:59 <gmaxwell> :-/
120 2011-07-01 00:30:23 <folklore> sorry to hear you ignored me in the past
121 2011-07-01 00:30:29 <cacheson> folklore: stop causing conflict; go away
122 2011-07-01 00:30:34 <gmaxwell> I told you I was doing it when I did it.
123 2011-07-01 00:30:38 <folklore> lol cacheson
124 2011-07-01 00:30:45 <gmaxwell> ::shrugs::
125 2011-07-01 00:31:55 <gmaxwell> denisx: thought about creating pull requests for these things?
126 2011-07-01 00:32:07 <gmaxwell> denisx: thats the best way to avoid getting patches lost.
127 2011-07-01 00:32:16 <denisx> gmaxwell: it is not my code
128 2011-07-01 00:32:34 <denisx> got it from here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=22585.40
129 2011-07-01 00:33:15 <gmaxwell> well go nag its author to do so, broken out though, since I expect the different parts will get different reception.
130 2011-07-01 00:33:35 <denisx> and I was interested in the duplicate patch, because I see duplicate for my own workers and I don't cheat on my own pool ;)
131 2011-07-01 00:36:46 <gmaxwell> denisx: yea, that patch has been in luke's git for a long time.
132 2011-07-01 00:39:18 <denisx> gmaxwell: the last function parameter can be removed then also
133 2011-07-01 00:41:28 <gmaxwell> folklore: Ah, you were the person who was insiting that the developers were "unprofessional" because there was "no documentation" when you hadn't even read the bitcoin paper. Did you finally read it?
134 2011-07-01 00:47:38 <xelister> gmaxwell: developers are dissapointing
135 2011-07-01 00:47:46 <xelister> still no one told how to run 2 nodes at once pc
136 2011-07-01 00:49:57 <gmaxwell> xelister: Well, perhaps someone would have it wasn't scrolled off by tripe.
137 2011-07-01 00:50:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r96d87301d870 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/Gatekeeper/ (plugin.py test.py): Gatekeeper: switch to just using +v http://tinyurl.com/6262brb
138 2011-07-01 00:50:33 <gmaxwell> xelister: Under linux? just start two. Give at least one nolisten. Put them on different rpcports.
139 2011-07-01 00:50:59 <xelister> gmaxwell: why nolisten? I want both to listen
140 2011-07-01 00:51:03 <xelister> on different ports
141 2011-07-01 00:51:06 <gmaxwell> If they are running as one user give them different directories.
142 2011-07-01 00:51:13 <xelister> $ ./bitcoind -server -port 8334 -rpcport 8332
143 2011-07-01 00:51:15 <xelister> fServer=1
144 2011-07-01 00:51:16 <xelister> error: incorrect rpcuser or rpcpassword (authorization failed)
145 2011-07-01 00:51:20 <xelister> gmaxwell: they are as other linux user
146 2011-07-01 00:51:28 <cacheson> xelister: other clients aren't going to connect to you on a different port
147 2011-07-01 00:52:03 <gmaxwell> what cacheson said (well, technically, they can but bitcoin strongly prefers to connect on the normal port)
148 2011-07-01 00:52:09 <B0g4r7> If you want to have 2 listening, you should bind them to different local IP addresses.
149 2011-07-01 00:52:22 <B0g4r7> IMO.
150 2011-07-01 00:52:32 <cacheson> also, wouldn't you need to change the working directory for one of them?
151 2011-07-01 00:52:46 <riush> doesn't that make it easy to block bitcoin (even at a larger scale)? whats the advantage of using only this port?
152 2011-07-01 00:53:44 <xelister> cacheson: other linux user
153 2011-07-01 00:53:56 <cacheson> xelister: ah, that works too
154 2011-07-01 00:54:00 <xelister> riush: yeap it makes it easy. see also #btcfn effort to avoid bitcoin blocking
155 2011-07-01 00:54:17 <xelister> gmaxwell: yeap I dont care
156 2011-07-01 00:54:20 <gmaxwell> riush: using other ports wouldn't meaningfully improve bitcoin. I had assumed the preference was to avoid using bitcoin to DDOS other crap by tricking the network into connecting to it.
157 2011-07-01 00:54:38 <xelister> just want to run 2nd bitcoin server, listening on other RPC port and on other bitcoin-tcp-p2p port
158 2011-07-01 00:54:39 <phantomcircuit> roses are red
159 2011-07-01 00:54:42 <phantomcircuit> violets are blue
160 2011-07-01 00:54:48 <phantomcircuit> why am i here
161 2011-07-01 00:54:53 <xelister> so I did - ./bitcoind -server -port 8334 -rpcport 8332       and why is it not working
162 2011-07-01 00:55:01 <riush> xelister, wow, this is great :)
163 2011-07-01 00:55:33 <xelister> gmaxwell: well it was probably as a simple anti-ubernode-attack thing. where 1 ip would pretend to be 65000 nodes
164 2011-07-01 00:55:49 <neofutur> xelister: firewall ?
165 2011-07-01 00:55:54 <xelister> neofutur: no, loook
166 2011-07-01 00:56:00 <xelister> $ ./bitcoind -server -port 8334 -rpcport 8332
167 2011-07-01 00:56:01 <xelister> fServer=1
168 2011-07-01 00:56:03 <xelister> error: incorrect rpcuser or rpcpassword (authorization failed)
169 2011-07-01 00:56:04 <gmaxwell> xelister: no, it already won't connect to a single /16 more that once on outbound.
170 2011-07-01 00:56:04 <xelister> is it a bug?
171 2011-07-01 00:56:15 <gmaxwell> xelister: what are you trying to accomplish there?
172 2011-07-01 00:56:31 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
173 2011-07-01 00:56:32 <xelister> run 2nd node
174 2011-07-01 00:56:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134144 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 927 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 15 hours, 26 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1573582.08864482
175 2011-07-01 00:57:03 <xelister> ok I will give 0.01 to whoever shows me how to run the 2nd node of my bitcoin client
176 2011-07-01 00:59:34 <gmaxwell> xelister: ... ./bitcoind -port=8339 -rpcport=8340 works just fine.
177 2011-07-01 00:59:53 <gmaxwell> (I just picked some random ports, since I'm using the ones you're using)
178 2011-07-01 01:00:58 <B0g4r7> That is a bit of an odd arg convention.
179 2011-07-01 01:01:02 <xelister> trololo it worked
180 2011-07-01 01:01:05 <gmaxwell> I'm assuming it wasn't working for you because you had the syntax wrong?
181 2011-07-01 01:01:07 <gmaxwell> yea.
182 2011-07-01 01:01:12 <xelister> damn cmd line syntax. sucks
183 2011-07-01 01:01:13 <B0g4r7> I prefer GNU style where it's --arg-name value
184 2011-07-01 01:01:24 <gmaxwell> B0g4r7: yea but it's documented in the stdout help at least!
185 2011-07-01 01:01:33 <xelister> also it should say like "unknown argument 8339" or smth
186 2011-07-01 01:01:57 <xelister> gmaxwell: btw outputed help on cmd opts suck too, it misses many of important commands it seems
187 2011-07-01 01:02:01 <gmaxwell> Yea, who knows. ::shrugs::
188 2011-07-01 01:02:17 <xelister> so what is your address
189 2011-07-01 01:02:18 <gmaxwell> xelister: Submit patches.
190 2011-07-01 01:02:29 <gmaxwell> xelister: Keep it. :)
191 2011-07-01 01:02:58 <gmaxwell> (or send it to the faucet if you insist)
192 2011-07-01 01:02:58 <xelister> gmaxwell: k then I donate it into BtcFn project for ya =)
193 2011-07-01 01:03:15 <xelister> fauced is super supplied with EFF returned coins afaik
194 2011-07-01 01:03:21 <xelister> rite?
195 2011-07-01 01:03:57 <gmaxwell> it will be someday apparently, at the moment its almost dry again.
196 2011-07-01 01:04:01 <xelister> I wonder why satoshi doesnt popmp more funds into say fauced, or 100 other projects too
197 2011-07-01 01:04:39 <gmaxwell> Why are you assuming that satoshi has a lot of bitcoin?
198 2011-07-01 01:04:57 <denisx> gmaxwell: I think he generated the first year alone
199 2011-07-01 01:05:13 <xelister> yea
200 2011-07-01 01:05:14 <gmaxwell> He didn't.
201 2011-07-01 01:05:19 <xelister> so who di
202 2011-07-01 01:05:20 <denisx> then who did?
203 2011-07-01 01:05:35 <denisx> the difficulty did not rise the first year
204 2011-07-01 01:05:51 <doublec> there were only cpu's for a long time
205 2011-07-01 01:05:57 <doublec> that's why difficulty did't increase a lot
206 2011-07-01 01:06:06 <doublec> hal generated some too
207 2011-07-01 01:06:10 <denisx> it did not rise at all the first year
208 2011-07-01 01:06:22 <doublec> there wasn't much interest
209 2011-07-01 01:07:22 <gmaxwell> The initial difficulty was too high too.
210 2011-07-01 01:07:35 <denisx> gmaxwell: wasnt it diff-1?
211 2011-07-01 01:07:38 <gmaxwell> But it has a floor at 1 in the main block chain.
212 2011-07-01 01:07:46 <doublec> hal says he started using bitcoin the first day
213 2011-07-01 01:07:46 <gmaxwell> Yes, which used to be very slow in 1999.
214 2011-07-01 01:07:54 <doublec> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8662.msg125804#msg125804
215 2011-07-01 01:08:02 <gmaxwell> Satoshi made a lot of effort to prove he didn't start early.
216 2011-07-01 01:08:08 <gmaxwell> Thats why the genesis block has a headline in it.
217 2011-07-01 01:08:15 <gmaxwell> http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg10142.html  < also, see an example early post.
218 2011-07-01 01:08:23 <gmaxwell> Vs block 0 < http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f
219 2011-07-01 01:09:07 <gmaxwell> I ran bitcoin during the first year, I think. but I didn't save any of the coins.
220 2011-07-01 01:09:26 <justmoon> gmaxwell, also sourceforge projects shows 120-something downloads of the client in jan 2009
221 2011-07-01 01:09:29 <justmoon> project*
222 2011-07-01 01:10:45 <gmaxwell> Yea, it's probably reasonable to guess he has a fair number, but this notion that he has an enormous amount seems odd to me. As far as I could tell he didn't like the big consolidation of mining power that came from people putting extra effort into doing a lot of it.
223 2011-07-01 01:13:08 <justmoon> one way to look at it is: if he has a lot then only because he was the only person to understand the value of bitcoin when everyone else was too busy saying it would fail - he did absolutely everything by the book in terms of making the client available and trying to get as many people as possible to use it
224 2011-07-01 01:13:55 <gmaxwell> justmoon: Yes.
225 2011-07-01 01:14:16 <gmaxwell> justmoon: Well, and those of us who knew about it and didn't keep up ... well, we made our choices.
226 2011-07-01 01:14:34 <gmaxwell> Hal's response to the initial announcement makes the rational argument quite crisply.
227 2011-07-01 01:14:56 <gmaxwell> As an amusing thought experiment, imagine that Bitcoin is successful and
228 2011-07-01 01:14:58 <gmaxwell> 20 million coins, that gives each coin a value of about $10 million.
229 2011-07-01 01:15:00 <gmaxwell> So the possibility of generating coins today with a few cents of compute
230 2011-07-01 01:15:03 <gmaxwell> time may be quite a good bet, with a payoff of something like 100 million
231 2011-07-01 01:15:05 <gmaxwell> to 1! Even if the odds of Bitcoin succeeding to this degree are slim,
232 2011-07-01 01:15:08 <gmaxwell> are they really 100 million to one against? Something to think about...
233 2011-07-01 01:16:07 <jgarzik> bitcoin began on _Windows_???
234 2011-07-01 01:16:12 <jgarzik> no wonder the code sucks
235 2011-07-01 01:16:21 <justmoon> haha
236 2011-07-01 01:16:54 <justmoon> speaking of the early client: did it use crypto++ instead of openssl?
237 2011-07-01 01:17:07 <justmoon> or why are there remnants of crypto++ in the source tree?
238 2011-07-01 01:19:57 <jgarzik> justmoon: license, maybe?  or perhaps because it is from Wei Dai(sp?), upon which some bitcoin ideas are based (b-money, I think?)
239 2011-07-01 01:21:12 <justmoon> when I saw it in the source my thought was that there certainly is a lot of kinship between wei dai and satoshi
240 2011-07-01 01:21:29 <justmoon> wei dai's paper is also the first thing cited in the bitcoin paper
241 2011-07-01 01:22:07 <denisx> night
242 2011-07-01 01:24:43 <bittwist> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WwJB34EDHdgJ:weidai.com/bmoney.txt
243 2011-07-01 01:24:46 <bittwist> interesting
244 2011-07-01 01:25:54 <justmoon> crazy to think that idea was just sitting there for ten years
245 2011-07-01 01:26:31 <bittwist> blame the y2k
246 2011-07-01 01:27:05 <justmoon> that must be it :)
247 2011-07-01 01:27:35 <gmaxwell> bittwist: it didn't stand alone, there were a number of early crypto-libertarian lists that were just dripping with ideas in this and related spaces. (some good, many bad :) )
248 2011-07-01 01:28:20 <justmoon> gmaxwell: any tips on where to find some worthwhile reading material from that sort of vein?
249 2011-07-01 01:28:47 <bittwist> print out radio noise from the universe's creation
250 2011-07-01 01:28:56 <bittwist> read it until you go blind or become a crypto god
251 2011-07-01 01:29:19 <gmaxwell> justmoon: google on the people. e.g. anything connected to Hal Finney tends to be interesting.
252 2011-07-01 01:29:50 <justmoon> k thx
253 2011-07-01 01:30:14 <bliket_> Hey anyone here good in python and knows phoneix code? I just did some modifications, I am planning on running the miner in a do while true script. I did a couple of modifications where I want the miner to quit (gracefully) can someone check my code to make sure I am not screwing it up and that the variables are accessiable ?  http://i.imgur.com/hbJly.jpg
254 2011-07-01 01:30:16 <bliket_> parts changed are in green
255 2011-07-01 01:30:34 <bliket_> according to line 140, the "reactor" should be accessable
256 2011-07-01 01:31:17 <bittwist> justmoon: in the past five minutes i've hit three references to http://lesswrong.com/ from hal and wei searches
257 2011-07-01 01:31:29 <bittwist> site of interest
258 2011-07-01 01:33:00 <bittwist> same goes with Nick Szabo
259 2011-07-01 01:33:20 <justmoon> Nickamoto Szaboshi? :P
260 2011-07-01 01:33:50 <bittwist> justmoon: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/
261 2011-07-01 01:33:59 <bittwist> justmoon: all new names to me :P
262 2011-07-01 01:34:02 <gmaxwell> bliket_: I'm running basically identical changes.
263 2011-07-01 01:34:13 <justmoon> yeah he has a post where he commends satoshi about how awesome bitcoin is :)
264 2011-07-01 01:34:24 <justmoon> so my guess is he's not satoshi
265 2011-07-01 01:34:33 <gmaxwell> (well mine are against an old version, so they aren't quite identicial, the os._exit(0) is right though, which is what you were likely to get wrong)
266 2011-07-01 01:34:34 <justmoon> unless he did that on purpose in that case: well played :D
267 2011-07-01 01:35:46 <justmoon> sipa's limitblocksend patch works great!
268 2011-07-01 01:35:54 <noagendamarket> wei dai is satoshi :)
269 2011-07-01 01:36:11 <noagendamarket> Ive said that all along
270 2011-07-01 01:36:47 <gmaxwell> If so, he certantly hid difference in writing style well.
271 2011-07-01 01:37:03 <justmoon> yeah, everyone keeps saying satoshi uses british english idioms
272 2011-07-01 01:37:32 <justmoon> then there is my forum post timezone analysis saying that he almost certainly lives somewhere in the americas :)
273 2011-07-01 01:38:03 <bittwist> the obvious conspiracy line is: wei -> sat -> gox -> Tibanne
274 2011-07-01 01:38:07 <bliket_> So 1) I know I should be able to access the "reactor" because on line 140 @ http://i.imgur.com/hbJly.jpg we see it being used "reactor.callLater(15, self.idleFixer)"   and 2) I know how to use the "reactor" to get it to stop because of line 270 @ http://pastebin.com/T11hGmqC
275 2011-07-01 01:38:20 <bliket_> right gmaxwell?
276 2011-07-01 01:38:33 <justmoon> bittwist, nah, gox was founded by jed, tibanne didn't acquire it til much later
277 2011-07-01 01:38:43 <bittwist> shh
278 2011-07-01 01:38:45 <bittwist> :P
279 2011-07-01 01:38:48 <bliket_> gmaxwell: I used to do a sys.exit(0) but because I didn't turn off the reactor gracefully it didn't make a good enough exit
280 2011-07-01 01:39:01 <cacheson> clearly the answer is that satoshi is austin powers
281 2011-07-01 01:39:02 <bittwist> really this identity crud is way ot
282 2011-07-01 01:39:06 <cacheson> international man of mystery
283 2011-07-01 01:39:19 <bliket_> A control-C quit the phoenix miner perfectly, a sys.exit(0) didn't
284 2011-07-01 01:41:08 <bluenemo_> moin guys. i heard you're talking very smart stuff at the moment. i've been up for about 20 hours by now and feel up for the challange :)
285 2011-07-01 01:41:21 <justmoon> blueadept, lol wtf
286 2011-07-01 01:44:07 <gmaxwell> bliket_: if you os._exit(0) it will drop out of the interperter quickly.
287 2011-07-01 01:44:17 <bliket_> right
288 2011-07-01 01:44:21 <bliket_> i dont want it to do that
289 2011-07-01 01:44:27 <bliket_> i need it to shutdown correctly
290 2011-07-01 01:44:37 <bliket_> os_exit(0) is just like a kill -9
291 2011-07-01 01:44:44 <gmaxwell> yes, why don't you want that?
292 2011-07-01 01:44:50 <bliket_> and you gotta remember that twisted.internet will keep running
293 2011-07-01 01:45:25 <bliket_> check it out, try to do a os_exit(0) while the miner is running normally, you will notice your gpu usage will still be high even though the miner is killed
294 2011-07-01 01:45:41 <gmaxwell> well, I'm running agains an old revision in part because the newer twisted crap was prone to getting stuck.
295 2011-07-01 01:45:46 <bliket_> you *need* to call reactor.stop if the reactor is still running
296 2011-07-01 01:46:03 <bliket_> before you exit
297 2011-07-01 01:46:39 <bliket_> So 1) I know I should be able to access the "reactor" because on line 140 @ http://i.imgur.com/hbJly.jpg we see it being used "reactor.callLater(15, self.idleFixer)"   and 2) I know how to use the "reactor" to get it to stop because of line 270 @ http://pastebin.com/T11hGmqC
298 2011-07-01 01:46:43 <gmaxwell> Doesn't here for some reason.
299 2011-07-01 01:46:51 <bliket_> right?
300 2011-07-01 01:47:01 <bliket_> I just want to be sure my code is right
301 2011-07-01 01:47:12 <bliket_> because all my miners are like 15 miles away from me
302 2011-07-01 01:47:27 <bliket_> lol I gotta code without debugging/testing
303 2011-07-01 01:47:41 <bliket_> I am thinking of running vmware just to test this modification
304 2011-07-01 01:47:47 <bliket_> and that got me thinking
305 2011-07-01 01:47:54 <bliket_> how do I cause phoenix to idle
306 2011-07-01 01:48:05 <gmaxwell> I used iptables to test it.
307 2011-07-01 01:48:06 <bliket_> i guess i can pull the ethernet cable
308 2011-07-01 01:48:10 <bliket_> oh shit thanks
309 2011-07-01 01:48:10 <gmaxwell> Just blocked the pool.
310 2011-07-01 01:48:14 <bliket_> thank youuuu
311 2011-07-01 01:48:40 <gmaxwell> While I'd be paranoid if my miners were 15 mi away, I never wedged them while screwing around with that stuff.
312 2011-07-01 01:49:55 <bliket_> damn i tried running linuxcoin in a vm
313 2011-07-01 01:50:16 <bliket_> and it didnt like that it emulates a i686 processor since it requires a x86
314 2011-07-01 01:50:31 <gmaxwell> x86_64 you mean?
315 2011-07-01 01:50:49 <gmaxwell> vmware can run 64 bit targets but I guess it requires a 64 bit host.
316 2011-07-01 01:52:03 <bliket_> i do run a 64 bit host
317 2011-07-01 01:52:12 <bliket_> yes i do mean x86_64
318 2011-07-01 01:53:29 <gmaxwell> http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1003945
319 2011-07-01 01:59:25 <bliket_> I decided to just install linux on an external hard drive
320 2011-07-01 02:00:34 <bliket_> I usually use unetbootin to make linux os flash drives, is there any way to install it to an external hard drive? unetbootin doesnt want to work with my external hard drive
321 2011-07-01 02:00:43 <bliket_> i am all out of flash drives
322 2011-07-01 02:01:14 <bluenemo_> bliket_, just create a vm or install it normally via booting it normally and selecting your external storage for installation
323 2011-07-01 02:01:30 <bliket_> i am using linuxcoin's iso
324 2011-07-01 02:01:37 <bliket_> so there is no installer
325 2011-07-01 02:01:37 <bluenemo_> ?
326 2011-07-01 02:01:45 <bliket_> its a livecd
327 2011-07-01 02:01:53 <bluenemo_> and you want to install it?
328 2011-07-01 02:02:09 <bliket_> yeah i just want my external hard drive to have the iso's files
329 2011-07-01 02:02:28 <bliket_> but i think it needs to rewrite the external hard drive's MBR to make it bootable
330 2011-07-01 02:02:33 <bluenemo_> hm. i'm not sure if thats possible.. isos have different block sizes than hdd's
331 2011-07-01 02:02:55 <bluenemo_> hm well you shouldnt have anything else on the hdd before you start testing :)
332 2011-07-01 02:03:49 <bluenemo_> ah ok now i get it yeah just put them on the hdd, chroot and grub-install or sth.. there should be howtos
333 2011-07-01 02:03:56 <bliket_> i just opened HP USB disk format tool and it is allowing me to make my external hard drive a startup disk but it only works with a DOS Startup disk
334 2011-07-01 02:04:18 <bliket_> is there any way to load linux from dos? hehe
335 2011-07-01 02:04:31 <cacheson> bliket_: loadlin
336 2011-07-01 02:04:32 <bluenemo_> rofl no idea :D
337 2011-07-01 02:05:05 <xelister> why is fauced giving away 0.001
338 2011-07-01 02:05:16 <xelister> giving 0.001 costs 0.011 anyway?
339 2011-07-01 02:05:20 <bluenemo_> to get you started with btc
340 2011-07-01 02:06:10 <xelister> so actually it gives 0.001 to the person and 0.010 to a lucky miner
341 2011-07-01 02:07:33 <copumpkin> it may use a client that doesn't force a donation
342 2011-07-01 02:07:33 <gmaxwell> xelister: no it doesn't.
343 2011-07-01 02:07:42 <bliket_> shit
344 2011-07-01 02:07:43 <xelister> gmaxwell: hm?
345 2011-07-01 02:07:48 <bliket_> i just realized i can burn this on a cd
346 2011-07-01 02:07:50 <bliket_> haha
347 2011-07-01 02:07:52 <gmaxwell> (1) the antidust fee was reduced to 0.0005, (2) it uses a sendmany.
348 2011-07-01 02:07:53 <bliket_> problem solved
349 2011-07-01 02:07:57 <xelister> oh
350 2011-07-01 02:08:07 <bliket_> why didnt anyone say "burn a cd"
351 2011-07-01 02:08:18 <xelister> why wallet.dat is so big
352 2011-07-01 02:08:19 <bluenemo_> fail...
353 2011-07-01 02:08:20 <Cryo> wow, manly: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon7000/7500/X8OBN-F.cfm
354 2011-07-01 02:08:30 <xelister> fresh node with just 2 accounts is over 50 K
355 2011-07-01 02:09:09 <Cryo> 80 cores, 16 pci 2.x x16
356 2011-07-01 02:09:14 <Cryo> 5U
357 2011-07-01 02:09:23 <xelister> O_O
358 2011-07-01 02:10:01 <Cryo> the motherboard manual reads like pr0n.
359 2011-07-01 02:10:17 <copumpkin> Cryo: good luck cooling that thing
360 2011-07-01 02:10:18 <gmaxwell> 21:08 < bliket_> why didnt anyone say "burn a cd"
361 2011-07-01 02:10:26 <gmaxwell> I assumed you didn't have a drive.
362 2011-07-01 02:10:48 <bluenemo_> i assumed burning a cd to start an iso was to obvious to tell :)
363 2011-07-01 02:46:35 <nanotube> gmaxwell: trying to quit your ssh session? :)
364 2011-07-01 03:33:36 <topi`> nanotube: happens to me all the time when the 3G hangs ;)
365 2011-07-01 03:42:36 <Shuro> Morning
366 2011-07-01 04:11:21 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,dev
367 2011-07-01 04:11:22 <gribble> Error: "bc,dev" is not a valid command.
368 2011-07-01 04:11:23 <phantomcircuit> er
369 2011-07-01 04:11:27 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
370 2011-07-01 04:11:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134170 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 901 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 10 hours, 23 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1580469.71659220
371 2011-07-01 04:12:20 <groffer> xelister: it creates 100 addresses in advance so you don't have to take a backup after each new address
372 2011-07-01 04:17:23 <Graet> Diablo-D3 one of my pools members is compiling a list like http://mksv.ath.cx//bit/bit.php with live stats. if that helps at all you are welcome to use it, obviously he has more to add, but will do this eve and make it nicer, we will spam it round forums too. hopefully he can put together a comprehensive list :)
373 2011-07-01 04:17:46 <Graet> well not hopefully but planning to
374 2011-07-01 04:22:44 <Diablo-D3> Graet: needs to sort results.
375 2011-07-01 04:23:00 <Graet> Diablo-D3 i will tell him that . :)
376 2011-07-01 04:23:16 <Graet> hope its useful :)
377 2011-07-01 04:37:34 <egecko> man
378 2011-07-01 04:37:43 <egecko> its been so long since ive used a *nix environment
379 2011-07-01 04:38:03 <egecko> getting used to these command lines reminds me of how annoying that is ;)
380 2011-07-01 04:49:09 <Shuro> did someone here uses TheBlueMatt's feefix?
381 2011-07-01 05:26:56 <Shuro> i've i have mined successfully a block, did i can use it for my transactions?
382 2011-07-01 05:29:58 <neofutur> if you have the btc in your wallet you can use them
383 2011-07-01 05:50:44 <Shuro> is there some chance to prognose the fee i have to pay? (btc-client asks, but headlessclient only sends and pay the fee automaticly)
384 2011-07-01 05:59:12 <pogden> Hello. I'm worried about the use of base 58 in the bitcoin client over base 64. I'm looking at src/base58.h and it looks like the excuses that are listed are just bullocks.
385 2011-07-01 05:59:22 <pogden> I"m worried that this is an attempt to undermine the security of the language.
386 2011-07-01 06:01:09 <doublec> are bullocks good or bad?
387 2011-07-01 06:01:34 <pogden> Bad.
388 2011-07-01 06:01:57 <pogden> I think that jgarzik is a mole
389 2011-07-01 06:02:00 <snowing> what is the problem?
390 2011-07-01 06:02:18 <doublec> what does jgarzik have to do with base 58?
391 2011-07-01 06:02:28 <pogden> he has the last patch on this file
392 2011-07-01 06:02:55 <bittwist> we are through the looking glass people
393 2011-07-01 06:02:57 <doublec> merging a pull request from someone else?
394 2011-07-01 06:03:54 <pogden> Who is that someone else, though?
395 2011-07-01 06:04:02 <doublec> Who are you?
396 2011-07-01 06:05:32 <pogden> I don't think this communciation is secure enough for me to say. I think that the bitcoin client's security is more important than who i am
397 2011-07-01 06:06:29 <snowing> what does base 58 have to do with security?
398 2011-07-01 06:06:37 <neofutur> obfuscating ?
399 2011-07-01 06:06:49 <snowing> o_o
400 2011-07-01 06:06:55 <snowing> I hope not
401 2011-07-01 06:07:27 <em> what's the news?
402 2011-07-01 06:07:30 <pogden> base64 would be much more secure. that's like 64 times less secure than 64
403 2011-07-01 06:07:42 <pogden> em: There's a vulnerability in the hash encoding