1 2011-07-04 00:02:39 <Blitzboom> http://www.links.org/files/decentralised-currencies.pdf
  2 2011-07-04 00:05:01 <Blitzboom> 7 got me thinking &
  3 2011-07-04 00:06:24 <Blitzboom> would that be possible?
  4 2011-07-04 00:06:53 <accel> random musings
  5 2011-07-04 00:07:01 <accel> has there been any case, where a bitcoin client developer
  6 2011-07-04 00:07:05 <accel> sneaks a backdoor into a bitconi client
  7 2011-07-04 00:07:09 <accel> and uses it to steal bitcoin wallets?
  8 2011-07-04 00:07:16 <Blitzboom> & no
  9 2011-07-04 00:07:18 <accel> [I just realized the temptatino this provides ---
 10 2011-07-04 00:07:27 <accel> i.e. instead of attacking mtgox, people could attack the open source projects
 11 2011-07-04 00:07:30 <accel> and steal entire wallets
 12 2011-07-04 00:07:35 <sneak> attacking mtgox will remain easy though
 13 2011-07-04 00:07:40 <sneak> seeing as they have nfc what they're doing
 14 2011-07-04 00:07:41 <Blitzboom> the source code is very scrutinized
 15 2011-07-04 00:07:46 <Blitzboom> people would notice
 16 2011-07-04 00:07:55 <sneak> the thing is, there are lots of people debugging and analyzing bitcoin
 17 2011-07-04 00:08:07 <sneak> there are only a handful of security-clueless people trying to secure mtgox
 18 2011-07-04 00:08:15 <sneak> sites like that will remain the low-hanging fruit for some time
 19 2011-07-04 00:08:16 <kuboosh> i love the fact its licensed using MIT code :P
 20 2011-07-04 00:08:22 <sneak> also, idiots on windows who run any binaries they find on the web
 21 2011-07-04 00:09:53 <marioxcc> kuboosh: using "MIT code", huh?
 22 2011-07-04 00:10:01 <kuboosh> Licensed
 23 2011-07-04 00:10:06 <b4epoche_> is there a vector-based bitcoin logo anywhere?  Or does anyone know the font of the base B?
 24 2011-07-04 00:10:20 <marioxcc> kuboosh: maybe you mean MIT *license*, which is a meaningless statement as well as the MIT has used several different licenses
 25 2011-07-04 00:10:31 <kuboosh> yes im aware of that
 26 2011-07-04 00:10:35 <kuboosh> with all the contributors
 27 2011-07-04 00:10:39 <kuboosh> :P no hard feelings
 28 2011-07-04 00:10:42 <b4epoche_> nm...  found some
 29 2011-07-04 00:10:57 <marioxcc> kuboosh: of course no, why would someone feel otherwise?
 30 2011-07-04 00:11:05 <b4epoche_> why is it that I always find the stuff I ask about after search for 10 minutes?
 31 2011-07-04 00:11:07 <kgo> Hey I'm trying to run a miner on testnet.  I want to make sure I'm setup right.  It seems like I'm running, but I don't get hits for difficulty 0 like I do on a normal pool.  Is this right?
 32 2011-07-04 00:11:09 <kuboosh> xD
 33 2011-07-04 00:11:56 <kuboosh> its pretty sick though, my buddy is developing a portfolio code to optimize skewed portfolios using MATLAB and were using the MIT licensed code. kind of neat
 34 2011-07-04 00:12:38 <marioxcc> kgo: don't you mean difficulty 1?
 35 2011-07-04 00:13:11 <b4epoche_> "portfolio code to optimize skewed portfolios"?
 36 2011-07-04 00:13:16 <b4epoche_> please elaborate
 37 2011-07-04 00:13:42 <b4epoche_> kuboosh ^
 38 2011-07-04 00:13:47 <kuboosh> Well this project isn't regarding bitcoin
 39 2011-07-04 00:13:51 <kgo> marioxcc, Possibly.  But when I'm mining with a pool, I see hashes that get accepted all the time.  I'm not seeing that with my current setup on -testnet.  I want to make sure this is normal.  That I'll only see 'accepted' on a real hit.  Or that I've got a crazy config.
 40 2011-07-04 00:14:07 <b4epoche_> kuboosh:  oh...  yea
 41 2011-07-04 00:14:09 <kgo> That I need to fix.
 42 2011-07-04 00:14:11 <kuboosh> yea :P
 43 2011-07-04 00:14:25 <kuboosh> ill keep you guys updated
 44 2011-07-04 00:14:47 <b4epoche_> kuboosh:  I've been really wanting to use my 15 years of experience with Matlab and Mathematica to use to make some money ;-)
 45 2011-07-04 00:14:53 <kuboosh> whoa
 46 2011-07-04 00:14:55 <kuboosh> :P
 47 2011-07-04 00:14:57 <kuboosh> awesome to know
 48 2011-07-04 00:14:58 <clr_> Has anyone got a client working with go?
 49 2011-07-04 00:15:01 <kuboosh> others use matlab here
 50 2011-07-04 00:15:02 <kuboosh> :P
 51 2011-07-04 00:15:09 <kuboosh> well
 52 2011-07-04 00:15:27 <kuboosh> hes by no means a finance guru
 53 2011-07-04 00:15:29 <kuboosh> coder
 54 2011-07-04 00:15:44 <kuboosh> C++/C#/Matlab/fluent/nlopt
 55 2011-07-04 00:15:57 <b4epoche_> yea, I use those for physics, not finance
 56 2011-07-04 00:16:11 <kuboosh> yep
 57 2011-07-04 00:16:16 <b4epoche_> CFD
 58 2011-07-04 00:16:33 <b4epoche_> openfoam ftw
 59 2011-07-04 00:17:25 <b4epoche_> anyway, I'd like to learn more...  and while this /is/ off-topic for this room, it's not really interfering with coding talk
 60 2011-07-04 00:18:28 <b4epoche_> and I just got my client front-end to dump wallet priv keys to QR codes, so I'm done coding for the evening
 61 2011-07-04 00:18:44 <SeriousWorm> how come testnet is so high difficulty now? took a hour and a half or so to generate a block with my 300mhash/sec.
 62 2011-07-04 00:19:13 <kgo> SeriousWorm, I feel your pain.  Need 5 more confirms to test something.
 63 2011-07-04 00:19:44 <SeriousWorm> does anyone think it will become valid for trades eventually? :) because if this continues, someone will probably start a testnet<>btc exchange since it's easy. on the other hand, it could be as easily reset.
 64 2011-07-04 00:19:45 <SeriousWorm> right?
 65 2011-07-04 00:21:43 <lolwat`> why doesnt someone just start a new testnet
 66 2011-07-04 00:21:49 <lolwat`> something between testnet-in-a-box and testnet
 67 2011-07-04 00:22:13 <lolwat`> one that will get wiped more frequently, say every day at midnight
 68 2011-07-04 00:22:36 <lolwat`> would this be useful to others? if so i'd make one
 69 2011-07-04 00:22:52 <lolwat`> maybe also make blocks more frequent than 10 minutes
 70 2011-07-04 00:27:11 <nanotube> testnet in a box gets wiped as often as you like
 71 2011-07-04 00:35:17 <Graet> lolwat` on the internet dude. who's midnight lol
 72 2011-07-04 00:35:53 <lolwat`> true
 73 2011-07-04 00:35:56 <lolwat`> utc
 74 2011-07-04 00:36:01 <Graet> :0
 75 2011-07-04 00:36:06 <Graet> :)*
 76 2011-07-04 00:36:16 <lolwat`> programmer's midnight is always utc :]
 77 2011-07-04 00:36:20 <cacheson> british time clock
 78 2011-07-04 00:36:22 <Graet> yer true :)
 79 2011-07-04 00:36:25 <cacheson> (btc)
 80 2011-07-04 00:36:47 <Graet> see but my initials are GMT so meantime holds a special place in my heart :P
 81 2011-07-04 00:36:53 <Graet> lmao
 82 2011-07-04 00:37:50 <nanotube> SeriousWorm: i'll sell you some testnetbtc :P
 83 2011-07-04 00:37:59 <SeriousWorm> :)
 84 2011-07-04 00:44:07 <jgarzik> SeriousWorm: yes, we've reset testnet in the past.  created a new genesis block.  currently we're on testnet v2.
 85 2011-07-04 00:44:27 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 28 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <ArtForz> eternal beta. hah, satoshi is secretly a google employee!
 86 2011-07-04 00:44:27 <jgarzik> ;;seen ArtForz
 87 2011-07-04 00:44:48 <SeriousWorm> I know. Also, good night, it's 4:43 and I really ought to get some sleep. :)
 88 2011-07-04 00:45:11 <Blitzboom> actually i have read that satoshi wanted to take bitcoin out of beta with the 0.3 release
 89 2011-07-04 00:48:19 <kunnis> I was wondering if there's much intrest in improving the networking code to make it more efficent/faster.  I was thinking of maybe trying to help it out some.
 90 2011-07-04 00:50:25 <sacarlson> kunnis: I don't think you will find many complaining about faster
 91 2011-07-04 00:51:09 <kunnis> One usually leads to the other
 92 2011-07-04 00:55:53 <jgarzik> faster than what?
 93 2011-07-04 00:56:41 <jgarzik> the networking code isn't exactly bottlenecking on anything, in 0.3.24
 94 2011-07-04 00:57:08 <jgarzik> more efficient is always welcome.  "faster" seems subjective, and difficult without actually changing the protocol.
 95 2011-07-04 01:01:23 <wasabi2> kunnis: Add IPv6 support, if anything. :)
 96 2011-07-04 01:01:46 <jgarzik> luke-jr already has an IPv6 patch, iirc
 97 2011-07-04 01:01:51 <wasabi2> Oh, nevermind then.
 98 2011-07-04 01:01:57 <wasabi2> (also, yay)
 99 2011-07-04 01:03:47 <luke-jr> jgarzik: not complete
100 2011-07-04 01:04:44 <kunnis> Downloading the block chain from scratch is rather show for how much data is in it.
101 2011-07-04 01:04:48 <kunnis> slow
102 2011-07-04 01:05:21 <wasabi2> It would be useful to have an export/import block chain function.
103 2011-07-04 01:06:02 <luke-jr> jgarzik: btw, do you maintain pushpool still, or did your comment the other day imply it is now unmaintained?
104 2011-07-04 01:20:47 <jgarzik> luke-jr: pushpool is actively maintained.  no idea what comment to which you refer
105 2011-07-04 01:21:17 <luke-jr> jgarzik: giving up on pool stuff because of legal issues
106 2011-07-04 01:21:40 <jgarzik> luke-jr: that's just xf2.org hosting
107 2011-07-04 01:21:58 <luke-jr> isn't that the extent of your involvemnet in pools?
108 2011-07-04 01:23:43 <jgarzik> luke-jr: There do not appear to be any obvious legal issues with maintaining pool software.  There are substantial legal uses in all countries and territories.
109 2011-07-04 01:24:19 <luke-jr> so you just maintain it& to maintain it? XD
110 2011-07-04 01:24:32 <nanotube> kunnis: yea blockchain retrieval could be improved...
111 2011-07-04 01:24:38 <mekel> anyone on attend summercon this year?
112 2011-07-04 01:35:19 <noagendamarket> Do you think they will try to classify miners as money transmitters ?
113 2011-07-04 01:35:31 <noagendamarket> or as mints ?
114 2011-07-04 01:47:23 <linagee> what does this mean? "Block-chain lock-in at 134444"
115 2011-07-04 01:48:22 <linagee> is this to hard code part of the block chain or something
116 2011-07-04 01:53:13 <Diablo-D3> I just thought of a funny idea
117 2011-07-04 01:53:31 <Diablo-D3> a pool that is a lottery
118 2011-07-04 02:02:23 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, yeah. Name it "solo mining"
119 2011-07-04 02:02:32 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: no, even better
120 2011-07-04 02:02:38 <Diablo-D3> once a week I do a payout to a random share
121 2011-07-04 02:05:49 <Diablo-D3> so it could be 50, 100, 150, who knows
122 2011-07-04 02:11:05 <cacheson> then people could make pools that get work from your pool, in order to reduce the variance
123 2011-07-04 02:14:36 <mekel> hey does anyone know of a custom install of windows? Like a modded version of the OS that includes things from all the different windows installs?
124 2011-07-04 02:15:52 <Diablo-D3> cacheson: let them
125 2011-07-04 02:16:22 <Evious> Hi, I'm writing an Erlang wrapper library for bitcoind, and have questions. 1. Are there any existing best practices for running bitcoind I should know about? 2. Is it possible to use stdin/stdout for commands instead of JSON-RPC, without using bitcoin as a wrapper?
126 2011-07-04 02:16:33 <cacheson> Diablo-D3: very meta
127 2011-07-04 02:23:34 <^1bitc0inplz> Envious: I've not seen any provisions in the code for STDIN/STDOUT operations.... it looks like JSON-RPC is the only means of controlling it externally
128 2011-07-04 02:24:10 <^1bitc0inplz> however, I've pondered the idea of linking against it to remove the need to JSON-RPC and just making function calls... but, I'm too lazy :-)
129 2011-07-04 02:35:55 <hamush> does anyone know offhand if the bitcoin client is backwards compatible, network-wise? in other words, is 0.3.21 borked now that 0.3.23 is out?
130 2011-07-04 02:36:51 <nanotube> hamush: no
131 2011-07-04 02:36:55 <nanotube> not borked
132 2011-07-04 02:37:15 <hamush> thanks, good to know :)
133 2011-07-04 02:37:30 <nanotube> that said, never a bad idea to upgrade to .23 :)
134 2011-07-04 02:38:08 <hamush> i'd like to, but i'm on an older, linux distro that doesn't include the build prereqs or a glibc version new enough to run the .23 binaries
135 2011-07-04 02:38:32 <hamush> so i'm sticking with .21 until i upgrade
136 2011-07-04 02:39:04 <nanotube> ah
137 2011-07-04 02:45:12 <jgarzik> hamush: try .24rc1.  I -think- BlueMatt built it on older distro
138 2011-07-04 02:47:10 <hamush> jgarzik: i'll give that a try, thank you!
139 2011-07-04 02:57:29 <doublec> I get an error building latest git with miniupnp 1.5.20110623
140 2011-07-04 02:57:58 <doublec> error: too few arguments to function UPNPDev* upnpDiscover(int, const char*, const char*, int, int, int*)
141 2011-07-04 02:58:05 <doublec> on linux
142 2011-07-04 02:59:12 <doublec> using: make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=0 bitcoind
143 2011-07-04 02:59:31 <jgarzik> doublec: gah.  I just love it when upstream arbitrarily changes a function signature.  I mean... who would have thought API breakage matters to anyone?
144 2011-07-04 02:59:56 <jgarzik> jansson did that too.  changed the number of arguments passed to json_loads(), without any thought to compatibility.
145 2011-07-04 03:00:04 <doublec> yeah, pretty frustrating
146 2011-07-04 03:00:34 <doublec> what version was used for building?
147 2011-07-04 03:00:46 <doublec> the build-unix.txt only mentions 1.5
148 2011-07-04 03:01:21 <doublec> UPNP_AddPortMapping has also changed number of arguments it seems
149 2011-07-04 03:01:52 <doublec> either that or the bitcoin code is wrong. It checks for a WX define to see if its windows and passes a different number of arguments if it is
150 2011-07-04 03:04:57 <jgarzik> doublec: poke BlueMatt tomorrow, or file an issue on github.  We'll take care of it, one way or another.
151 2011-07-04 03:05:30 <doublec> jgarzik: will do
152 2011-07-04 04:05:21 <OneFixt> does anyone know how to get in touch with slush?
153 2011-07-04 04:09:45 <[Tycho]> Have you tried PM on forum ?
154 2011-07-04 04:10:23 <Shuro> Hi there, how did i create a bitcoin-pool? :-)
155 2011-07-04 04:10:51 <[Tycho]> Hello, Shuro. Search for pushpoold.
156 2011-07-04 04:11:57 <Shuro> Thanks, did i also need expensive hardware for a pool?
157 2011-07-04 04:13:18 <[Tycho]> Yes.
158 2011-07-04 04:13:46 <[Tycho]> Well, actually you don't need any hardware. You'll just rent some dedicated servers.
159 2011-07-04 04:16:03 <Shuro> I think a dedicated server is much less than multiple mining rigs.  did pushpoold supports the default mining clients? is there an alternative to pushpoold?
160 2011-07-04 04:16:44 <[Tycho]> AFAIK it's the only existing open-source pool software.
161 2011-07-04 04:18:21 <Shuro> Okay, but it is compatible to mining clients like Phoenix-miner or Poclbm ?
162 2011-07-04 04:18:36 <[Tycho]> Yes.
163 2011-07-04 04:19:14 <Shuro> Thats cool :-) Thanks
164 2011-07-04 04:30:14 <rethaw> its so quiet
165 2011-07-04 04:33:49 <Joric> 0.3.24rc1 patch to show total number of blocks http://pastebin.com/ESurLrrL
166 2011-07-04 04:40:44 <devrandom> ;;later tell BlueMatt ami-7a21d213 is a Windows ami
167 2011-07-04 04:40:45 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
168 2011-07-04 06:21:30 <Joric> just made win32 build with wallet encription, ain't it cool http://i55.tinypic.com/f9mn8h.png
169 2011-07-04 06:47:04 <sivu> damnit why does the testnest difficulty have to be so hard. takes forever to test software
170 2011-07-04 06:51:42 <sipa> sivu: try testnet-in-a-box
171 2011-07-04 07:11:56 <sipa> ;;bc,satts
172 2011-07-04 07:11:57 <gribble> Error: "bc,satts" is not a valid command.
173 2011-07-04 07:11:58 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
174 2011-07-04 07:12:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134682 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 389 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1575302.31125655
175 2011-07-04 07:12:10 <sipa> ;;bc,nethash
176 2011-07-04 07:12:11 <gribble> 11850.246642337084
177 2011-07-04 07:15:07 <Joric> Just figured out if you're trying to read encrypted wallet with official client (0.3.24rc1 in my case) wallet gets destroyed and not readable by anything
178 2011-07-04 07:15:11 <Joric> not nice!
179 2011-07-04 07:15:19 <epscy> that difficulty jump doesn't look too huge
180 2011-07-04 07:15:25 <epscy> compared to previous ones
181 2011-07-04 07:18:11 <JFK911> ha
182 2011-07-04 07:19:57 <Joric> i've just lost 20 btc i mined in 2009 :) not much but still
183 2011-07-04 07:20:43 <sipa> Joric: encrypted by BlueMatt's newenc branch?
184 2011-07-04 07:20:57 <Joric> yeah
185 2011-07-04 07:21:03 <sipa> it shouldn't destroy it, i believe
186 2011-07-04 07:21:13 <sipa> but you shouldn't use that branch for production either
187 2011-07-04 07:21:18 <Joric> just kidding i've used dummy wallet
188 2011-07-04 07:21:36 <Joric> i didn't expect it anyway
189 2011-07-04 07:23:17 <lfm> epscy: you're right, it is a relativly small difficulty increase coming up. Fallout of the mtgox hack I suspect.
190 2011-07-04 07:23:57 <Joric> sipa, also in crypter.cpp you have to move headers.h to the very top otherwise you'll get a whole bunch of "Cannot convert from 'const wchar_t *' to '_TCHAR *'" (more precisely, wx.h should be included before windows.h)
191 2011-07-04 07:24:03 <Joric> i wrote about it already
192 2011-07-04 07:24:41 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt < Joric> sipa, also in crypter.cpp you have to move headers.h to the very top otherwise you'll get a whole bunch of "Cannot convert from 'const wchar_t *' to '_TCHAR *'" (more precisely, wx.h should be included before windows.h)
193 2011-07-04 07:24:42 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
194 2011-07-04 07:24:44 <epscy> lfm: at least it is still going up...
195 2011-07-04 07:25:12 <epscy> i can't help thinking that the mtgox hack and a medium term cooling of the market is probably a good thing
196 2011-07-04 07:25:45 <lfm> epscy: ya, I spoze a lot of people might agree with that
197 2011-07-04 07:28:16 <epscy> it seems to me bitcoin is far more likely to take off in the east first than the west
198 2011-07-04 07:28:28 <epscy> bitcoin does micropayments very well
199 2011-07-04 07:28:47 <epscy> and in places like india they have micro loans which have been quite successful
200 2011-07-04 07:29:25 <epscy> what we need is a small low power device, possibly solar powered that stores a wallet and allows you to send and receive transactions
201 2011-07-04 07:29:54 <epscy> i could see such an "electronic wallet" taking off big in developing countries
202 2011-07-04 07:32:52 <UukGoblin> it'd require a 3g network
203 2011-07-04 07:33:17 <UukGoblin> and to receive transactions it'd have to be powered on
204 2011-07-04 07:33:32 <UukGoblin> transmitting 3g data is inherently non-low-power ;-)
205 2011-07-04 07:34:09 <UukGoblin> well... maybe receiving isn't transmitting... we could ask the network to multicast bitcoin transactions via udp... ;-P
206 2011-07-04 07:41:52 <lfm> epscy: there is the confirmation delay still
207 2011-07-04 07:44:15 <epscy> UukGoblin: yeah I guess ubiquitous internet is a neccessary requirement as well
208 2011-07-04 07:45:03 <epscy> lfm: I dobut the confirmation delay would be much of a factor for day to day small transactions, but i could be wrong
209 2011-07-04 07:45:28 <epscy> it won't be more of a problem than it is for anyone else at least
210 2011-07-04 07:48:12 <knotwork> does -allowrpc work? googling bitcoind -allowprc all I find is someone else having problems and the responses think maybe it is a work in progress and you cannot yet actually connect to bitcoind from another machine?
211 2011-07-04 07:48:26 <knotwork> oops I mean -rpcallowip
212 2011-07-04 07:49:35 <knotwork> heh maybe I made that same slip in a script somewhere that would explain it
213 2011-07-04 07:51:18 <UukGoblin> epscy, for developing countries: bitbills
214 2011-07-04 07:51:48 <lfm> epscy: what scenerios do you see a portable wallet being used?
215 2011-07-04 07:52:19 <epscy> the same scenearios that micro loans are used
216 2011-07-04 07:52:29 <epscy> but i haven't looked into this very closely
217 2011-07-04 07:52:36 <epscy> so it could just be a brain fart
218 2011-07-04 07:53:28 <lfm> ah, ya maybe that would work. loans do tend to take a while to transact anyway.
219 2011-07-04 07:57:41 <lfm> not so sure about developing countries, they dont always have the internet substructure needed
220 2011-07-04 07:59:03 <lfm> like is someone who would find a micro loan usefull gonna pay monthly internet access bills?
221 2011-07-04 08:01:04 <epscy> you don't neccessarily need to online all the time
222 2011-07-04 08:01:43 <epscy> if a person can get to a wifi hotspot within a couple of miles then I can see it working reasonable
223 2011-07-04 08:02:17 <epscy> and internet does exist in developing countries, though I agree it may not be commonplace enough yet
224 2011-07-04 08:02:27 <lfm> well ya, you could just "dial up" when you need to do a transaction and bitcoin will try to catch back up to the block chain, then if you receive funds you need to stay for an hour to confirm, but I spoze you could do it that way
225 2011-07-04 08:02:33 <spq> you need to be online to verify that the other one really sent the payment and that is valid
226 2011-07-04 08:03:32 <spq> you dont even require to be online to send a payment, you could also give the one who wants the money the transaction and he could later submit it
227 2011-07-04 08:03:50 <lfm> has anyone here ever run bitcoin on a dial up connection? is the data load handled ok?
228 2011-07-04 08:04:16 <accel> why not?
229 2011-07-04 08:04:29 <lfm> accel it can be rather a lot
230 2011-07-04 08:04:30 <spq> but you need the whole blockchain until the transaction and some blocks after the transaction was embedded in a block to verify the transaction took place
231 2011-07-04 08:04:33 <accel> it only needs to sync every 10 minutes or so, no?
232 2011-07-04 08:04:45 <lfm> spq yup
233 2011-07-04 08:04:51 <accel> lfm: what is announced besides when someone discovers a new block?
234 2011-07-04 08:05:07 <epscy> i get the impression in some developing countries that currency is used as often as bartering
235 2011-07-04 08:05:31 <lfm> accel:  every transaction is sent out to every node bewteen blocks also
236 2011-07-04 08:05:41 <epscy> i think it was genjix who said that in africa and india they use mobile phone top up cards as currency
237 2011-07-04 08:06:11 <epscy> so i see bitcoin as being one option of payment
238 2011-07-04 08:06:24 <accel> lfm: I thought the way transactions worked (I'm probably totally wrong, so correct my understanding)
239 2011-07-04 08:06:27 <lfm> epscy: yes, but their mobile phones tend to be a bit different from ours I think.
240 2011-07-04 08:06:31 <accel> is that you take a bunch of transactions, you create a hash of it
241 2011-07-04 08:06:46 <accel> then you embed this hash into the new block that is discovered
242 2011-07-04 08:06:46 <Joric> UukGoblin, check this out :) just made a qr code for myself http://twitpic.com/5l12rn
243 2011-07-04 08:07:06 <spq> accel: right
244 2011-07-04 08:07:16 <lfm> accel: yes and if the transactions do not get spread around BEFORE the block, how would they get included in the block?
245 2011-07-04 08:07:45 <accel> lfm: those get into the next block
246 2011-07-04 08:08:09 <accel> (I don't know if that's for certain; this is my mental model of how bitcoin works)
247 2011-07-04 08:08:19 <lfm> accel: ya but they are not part of a block till they are included in one
248 2011-07-04 08:09:47 <lfm> accel: so the txn go out to everyone right away. the blocks then come in to confirm the ones they have seen
249 2011-07-04 08:10:06 <UukGoblin> Joric, great ;-)
250 2011-07-04 08:12:01 <epscy> lfm: different in what way?, here in the uk we have mobile phone top cards
251 2011-07-04 08:12:25 <epscy> in fact they sell ones that are aimed at people from the developing world
252 2011-07-04 08:12:29 <Joric> V05, error correction level H
253 2011-07-04 08:12:30 <lfm> or in special cases the blocks only confirm the txn they wish to honor liek if some txn didnt have enuf fee to satisfy that miner
254 2011-07-04 08:12:58 <Joric> just like BBC logo
255 2011-07-04 08:13:19 <Joric> except BBC logo is not that ugly
256 2011-07-04 08:13:30 <lfm> epscy: ya, those cards are the same, the phones tend to be the very cheap voice only no data phones from what I have heard.
257 2011-07-04 08:14:00 <epscy> yeah i wasn't suggesting they use the phones as bitcoin clients
258 2011-07-04 08:14:05 <lfm> like cheaper that you can even find most places like Canada (where I am)
259 2011-07-04 08:14:46 <epscy> jsut commenting on the fact that using mobile phone top up cards as currency suggests there is a need that bitcoin could fulfil
260 2011-07-04 08:14:55 <lfm> epscy: ok, you were proposing a special purpose device then? for bitcoin only?
261 2011-07-04 08:15:24 <epscy> maybe UukGoblin is right and bitbills are the way to go, but i don't they lend themselves to small transactions very well
262 2011-07-04 08:15:29 <epscy> lfm: yeah
263 2011-07-04 08:15:49 <epscy> but obviously there are some technical issues that would need to be worked out
264 2011-07-04 08:15:56 <epscy> and probably some social ones as well
265 2011-07-04 08:16:13 <MacRohard> someone could easily make an SMS driven bitcoin application
266 2011-07-04 08:16:32 <MacRohard> entring bitcoin addresses might be a bit of a pain though i guess
267 2011-07-04 08:16:33 <epscy> sms exchange, that is a good idea
268 2011-07-04 08:16:41 <lfm> epscy: I just dont see it happening. the reason they use phone cards instead of cash is the local currency is unstable (i guess) not cuz they are looking for some electronic technological way to do things
269 2011-07-04 08:17:16 <lfm> MacRohard: iiiieee. you know how expensive SMS is tho? itd kill ya
270 2011-07-04 08:17:17 <MacRohard> lfm, no it's because they can be sent electronically.. it's a means of remote paying
271 2011-07-04 08:17:29 <Joric> http://btc.to/6a is not painful
272 2011-07-04 08:17:33 <MacRohard> lfm, i don't, but i dobut that
273 2011-07-04 08:17:45 <epscy> lfm: i thought it was partly because phone cards can be moved between countries easily without paying fees
274 2011-07-04 08:18:06 <lfm> MacRohard: SMS is about 50000 times more expensive than email
275 2011-07-04 08:18:23 <phedny> lfm: hmm.. you must have cheap SMS in that case :)
276 2011-07-04 08:18:26 <MacRohard> lfm, email is free so that doesn't really mean anything
277 2011-07-04 08:18:54 <epscy> lfm: in the west sms is expensive, for various reasons
278 2011-07-04 08:19:10 <epscy> but once the infrastructure is in place sms can be quite cheap
279 2011-07-04 08:19:26 <epscy> of course an sms charge is essentially a fee
280 2011-07-04 08:19:27 <lfm> MacRohard: per second of network time used, SMS is about a million times more expensive than voice calls. Youd be better of useing a 300 baud acoustic modem then SMS
281 2011-07-04 08:19:30 <MacRohard> i expect sms is similarly priced in africa to the west.. if you're transferring say $10 or something then $0.14 isn't that much of a transaction fee to pay
282 2011-07-04 08:20:01 <epscy> MacRohard: micro loans are typically a dollar or less
283 2011-07-04 08:20:02 <Grady2000> hey all, is it possible to view the updated balance of a "savings account btc wallet" through block explorer?
284 2011-07-04 08:20:10 <MacRohard> lfm, maybe. but irrelevant - gsm data is usually a better deal than 3g on a byte basis too
285 2011-07-04 08:20:14 <lfm> MacRohard: maybe for you 14 cents isnt much!
286 2011-07-04 08:20:39 <MacRohard> epscy, i dunno abotu that.. it seems unlikely to me. you can't buy anything with $1 in africa any more than you can here
287 2011-07-04 08:21:41 <lfm> epscy: As I understood them micro loans were $100 or less typically
288 2011-07-04 08:21:59 <MacRohard> when people say things like people are living on less than $1/day it just means that there's virtually no money used in day to day transactions.. more barter. It doesn't mean that if you had $100 you'd be rich
289 2011-07-04 08:22:11 <epscy> i am sure i heard about one dollar loans in rural india
290 2011-07-04 08:22:33 <lfm> MacRohard: yes yes and they grow their own food and dont pay rent or taxes
291 2011-07-04 08:22:40 <MacRohard> lfm, right
292 2011-07-04 08:23:31 <lfm> epscy: The architypical micro loan I always heard about was enuf to buy a sewing machine to start a taylor buisness
293 2011-07-04 08:25:04 <lfm> (note they still make manual foot powered sewing machines that dont need electricity
294 2011-07-04 08:26:20 <epscy> fair enough, i may be off base with this one then
295 2011-07-04 08:26:44 <MacRohard> more like they take out a micro-loan and buy a bus ticket to the nearest large city and then beg from tourists to repay it ;)
296 2011-07-04 08:27:12 <lfm> MacRohard: Um I dont think they give out those typical microloans for that tho
297 2011-07-04 08:27:23 <MacRohard> ever heard of fraud?
298 2011-07-04 08:27:44 <MacRohard> it's when you say you're doing something for one reason when actually you're doing it for another reason
299 2011-07-04 08:28:03 <lfm> are you say you will repay when you wont
300 2011-07-04 08:28:25 <MacRohard> i dunno.. some prolly repay some prolly don't *shrug*
301 2011-07-04 08:28:46 <lfm> they claim they get like a 95% repayment rate
302 2011-07-04 08:29:04 <MacRohard> maybe they have good loan enforcement officers ;)
303 2011-07-04 08:29:17 <lfm> note also they mostly give the micro loans to women
304 2011-07-04 08:29:30 <enquirer> no they won't use bitcoins
305 2011-07-04 08:29:33 <MacRohard> that's generally what pimps do
306 2011-07-04 08:29:35 <lfm> women are better with money
307 2011-07-04 08:29:49 <MacRohard> tell women they're in debt and then make them work in a brothel until the debt is payed
308 2011-07-04 08:30:40 <lfm> MacRohard: well that may work but I dont think the microloan people are doing that
309 2011-07-04 08:30:45 <enquirer> bitcoin brothel makes sense
310 2011-07-04 08:30:57 <lfm> enquirer: lol yup
311 2011-07-04 08:31:01 <MacRohard> lfm, maybe not directly but i'm sure the people on the ground are
312 2011-07-04 08:31:42 <enquirer> considering 99% miners are nerd virgins
313 2011-07-04 08:31:59 <epscy> maybe small denominations of bitbills is a better idea
314 2011-07-04 08:32:05 <lfm> lots of competition for brothels already, no need to finace them generally
315 2011-07-04 08:32:20 <Shuro> did someone know an alternative rpc class for php? the class in the bitcoin-wiki is not very clear with exceptions
316 2011-07-04 08:33:09 <lfm> epscy: why not just use regular money?
317 2011-07-04 08:33:33 <epscy> lfm: yeah you have a point
318 2011-07-04 08:33:50 <epscy> the only reason is if the local currency is unstable as you said earlier
319 2011-07-04 08:34:23 <lfm> epscy: once there social systems get built up to the interent age level then we can convert them to bitcoin
320 2011-07-04 08:34:47 <MacRohard> people in cities have cellphones
321 2011-07-04 08:34:52 <MacRohard> people in villages are moving into the cities
322 2011-07-04 08:35:22 <erus`> people get rich and move back to the country
323 2011-07-04 08:35:22 <lfm> epscy: I think the most popular way out is to start using US$ or Euro then
324 2011-07-04 08:35:43 <phedny> several African countries use M-Pesa for mobile payments and it's used very widely in some countries
325 2011-07-04 08:35:46 <phedny> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
326 2011-07-04 08:35:55 <epscy> lfm: and what if the euro and dollare are instable? ;)
327 2011-07-04 08:36:04 <epscy> bitcoin! thats what
328 2011-07-04 08:36:11 <lfm> coss that bridge when we come to it.
329 2011-07-04 08:36:17 <lfm> cross
330 2011-07-04 08:36:20 <phedny> so it would be interesting to use the M-Pesa concept with Bitcoin and convince African people to use it
331 2011-07-04 08:36:23 <MacRohard> we need an iranian bitcoin exchange
332 2011-07-04 08:36:31 <MacRohard> those guys have serious problems paying for shit internationally
333 2011-07-04 08:36:32 <phedny> they're already used to SMS for payments, the change is the currency that's used
334 2011-07-04 08:36:48 <MacRohard> oil for bitcoins
335 2011-07-04 08:37:03 <lfm> I dont think any solution that relys on electricity and internet is really suitable there
336 2011-07-04 08:37:21 <erus`> now we have bitcoin porn i thought usage would explode
337 2011-07-04 08:37:28 <erus`> maybe bitcoin livecams
338 2011-07-04 08:37:37 <phedny> lfm: and agent handling Bitcoin payments offering an SMS interface may
339 2011-07-04 08:38:05 <lfm> phedny: ya maybe, for international payments especially
340 2011-07-04 08:38:21 <Joric> speaking of encryption, "Set the number of SHA512 rounds based on the speed of the computer." is it ok? :) i mean pocket pc processors are slower
341 2011-07-04 08:38:55 <Joric> keepass uses fixed 6000 encryption rounds
342 2011-07-04 08:39:21 <lfm> Joric: I dont get it? just set the numvber of rounds to be suitable for the slowest machine. if that isnt enuf security then its just wrong
343 2011-07-04 08:40:05 <Joric> i mean this pull request https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/352
344 2011-07-04 08:40:37 <Joric> it's not ajustable
345 2011-07-04 08:41:01 <lfm> ya its for a wallet passphrase hash key? same objection. why do extra rounds if the slowest is good enuf
346 2011-07-04 08:41:03 <enquirer> brad cohen collected porn specifically to jump-start bit torrent
347 2011-07-04 08:41:57 <Joric> cohen claims he has Asperger syndrome based on a self diagnosis :)
348 2011-07-04 08:42:34 <lfm> ok so either he has it and he is right or he is just nuts
349 2011-07-04 08:42:41 <enquirer> well most bitcoiners do have asperger, satoshi for sure )
350 2011-07-04 08:42:52 <Joric> count me out
351 2011-07-04 08:42:59 <erus`> most people who use IRC
352 2011-07-04 08:43:04 <lfm> I dont think I have that excuse
353 2011-07-04 08:43:10 <erus`> 99% of programmers
354 2011-07-04 08:43:25 <lfm> occasional mild OCD perhaps
355 2011-07-04 08:43:56 <lfm> and 98% of stats are made up on the spot
356 2011-07-04 08:44:07 <erus`> 1 in 5 female chess players are gay
357 2011-07-04 08:44:16 <erus`> honestly
358 2011-07-04 08:44:21 <erus`> i read it on a blog
359 2011-07-04 08:44:31 <lfm> you checked out all 5 yourself?
360 2011-07-04 08:44:45 <erus`> theres hundreds of hot female chess players
361 2011-07-04 08:45:07 <lfm> you didnt say you were only counting the hot ones
362 2011-07-04 08:46:17 <erus`> well if hotness doesnt factor into wether women like chess or not then we can extrapolate that hundreds * (average and ugly girls) girls play chess
363 2011-07-04 08:46:35 <erus`> i think thats > 5
364 2011-07-04 08:46:45 <Joric> if we belived every antisocial dick who self diagnosed with assburgers
365 2011-07-04 08:46:59 <lfm> ok so how many did you check for "gayness" yourself?
366 2011-07-04 08:47:17 <erus`> i read it on a blog, i didnt check the figures
367 2011-07-04 08:48:04 <enquirer> anyway his bet on porn succeede hugely
368 2011-07-04 08:48:09 <lfm> ok, I guess if it was in a blog we must beleive it
369 2011-07-04 08:48:23 <enquirer> today 50% of world internet traffic is bittoren
370 2011-07-04 08:48:48 <enquirer> we should start pushing porn for btc
371 2011-07-04 08:49:06 <enquirer> and i think porn is better than drugs )
372 2011-07-04 08:49:09 <Joric> it's already there, check tor
373 2011-07-04 08:49:19 <lfm> enquirer: enquirer I think thats old figure, I heard video from youtube and netflix and a few of the other main sites was bigger than bittorrent now
374 2011-07-04 08:49:41 <erus`> as soon as a joe blogs starts using bitcoin, the government will intervene
375 2011-07-04 08:49:57 <lfm> erus last week?
376 2011-07-04 08:50:54 <erus`> my IT manager doesnt even know about bitcoin
377 2011-07-04 08:50:59 <erus`> and hes in IT
378 2011-07-04 08:51:14 <erus`> let alone my friends
379 2011-07-04 08:51:26 <lfm> well why havnt you told them?
380 2011-07-04 08:52:53 <erus`> I do. they dont understand how it works and i told them to read the wiki page but why would they
381 2011-07-04 08:53:01 <erus`> you cant do much with them yet
382 2011-07-04 08:53:09 <lfm> ok so they have heard of it then from you
383 2011-07-04 08:54:29 <erus`> forgotten by now
384 2011-07-04 08:55:28 <lfm> naw, if they see another reference to it from somewhere else within the next couple week they will prolly remember you were on to it first and your rep will go up a notch
385 2011-07-04 09:00:45 <Joric> speaking of brad cohen and freenode http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/72298.html
386 2011-07-04 09:01:49 <enquirer> i see one direct benefit for btc already - it's better to mine btc and buy wow gold than to run wow bots on your computer
387 2011-07-04 09:03:06 <Joric> i doubt about the profitability of the latter comparing to the profitability of the former
388 2011-07-04 09:05:25 <Joric> though i don't know exact numbers on wow gold farming
389 2011-07-04 09:25:58 <enquirer> an average chinese inmate makes $2.50 a day farming wow gold
390 2011-07-04 09:27:00 <joepie91> this can't be right: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?blocked=0&building=0&dispatching=0&finished=0&pkgname=bitcoin&project=home%3Acxd&scheduled=0&signing=0&succeeded=0
391 2011-07-04 09:29:45 <enquirer> my bot barely makes $0.5 a day, and am lucky i was never banned
392 2011-07-04 09:34:18 <Joric> joepie91, after examining the source, i've decided it should be redone from scratch :)
393 2011-07-04 09:34:34 <joepie91> ...wat
394 2011-07-04 09:35:43 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r7074dde / src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl : Remove dead code that never gets executed - http://bit.ly/mhuj4d
395 2011-07-04 09:36:38 <erus`> if i wanna receive a payment from a specific user, i create a new address and then check getrecievedbyaddress?
396 2011-07-04 09:37:03 <erus`> is that gonna get slow when i have thousands of addresses in my wallet?
397 2011-07-04 09:38:45 <Joric> just make a new wallet then
398 2011-07-04 09:39:32 <erus`> whats the command for that?
399 2011-07-04 09:39:59 <Joric> there's none, yet
400 2011-07-04 09:41:07 <erus`> so how do i make a new wallet?
401 2011-07-04 09:41:51 <Joric> move files, restart
402 2011-07-04 09:42:09 <erus`> thats a bit hacky
403 2011-07-04 09:42:24 <erus`> how many addresses before things start slowing down do you recon?
404 2011-07-04 09:42:35 <erus`> i could set up an address pool and reuse them
405 2011-07-04 09:42:44 <phantomcircuit> a lot
406 2011-07-04 09:44:28 <erus`> Id like to know how others are doing it really
407 2011-07-04 09:44:52 <phantomcircuit> keep a database of address -> user mappings
408 2011-07-04 09:45:55 <erus`> phantomcircuit: the thing is you cant delete an address after you create it
409 2011-07-04 09:45:55 <Joric> address, user, balance
410 2011-07-04 09:46:24 <erus`> so i have to store old addresses when people delete their account i think
411 2011-07-04 09:46:25 <phantomcircuit> worry about it when it's a problem
412 2011-07-04 09:46:52 <phantomcircuit> i dont think anybody including mtgox has that problem yet
413 2011-07-04 09:47:10 <erus`> they must have a pool
414 2011-07-04 09:47:10 <lfm> erus`: no it wont get slow
415 2011-07-04 09:47:20 <phantomcircuit> they dont have a pool
416 2011-07-04 09:47:26 <Joric> computers are fast :)
417 2011-07-04 09:47:33 <erus`> when you get to thousands of users registering and leaving a day
418 2011-07-04 09:47:35 <jeremias> depends on the implementation
419 2011-07-04 09:47:46 <jeremias> a lousy coder can make even the most trivial thing slow
420 2011-07-04 09:47:57 <lfm> erus`: the wallet doesnt get slow with thousands of addresses in it. I have tested on testnet
421 2011-07-04 09:48:03 <erus`> well memory isnt infinite
422 2011-07-04 09:48:16 <erus`> so i would rather not keep creating addresses until it becomes a problem
423 2011-07-04 09:48:22 <jeremias> if you store bitcoin addresses in database table & use indexing, then it's highly improbable that you will ever run into scaling issues
424 2011-07-04 09:48:46 <phantomcircuit> erus`, so you expect to be millions of times more successful than mtgox?
425 2011-07-04 09:48:49 <phantomcircuit> uh huh
426 2011-07-04 09:48:53 <jeremias> and i guess the official implementation is good
427 2011-07-04 09:48:57 <phantomcircuit> we'll get right on that
428 2011-07-04 09:49:04 <phantomcircuit> the official implementation is shit
429 2011-07-04 09:49:07 <lfm> erus`: addresses are CHEAP. you can easily afford to produce as many as you will ever need and more and you wont notice the cost of storage or speed
430 2011-07-04 09:49:40 <Joric> what's the real length of those, before base58?
431 2011-07-04 09:49:42 <erus`> ok
432 2011-07-04 09:49:53 <erus`> just seems wasteful
433 2011-07-04 09:50:22 <lfm> erus`: like did you know that bitcoin generates 100 addresses in advance for you without asking? then your wallet backup will still be valid even when you use the next 100 addresses
434 2011-07-04 09:50:56 <lfm> erus`: do you know what 1 megabyte of disk space costs?
435 2011-07-04 09:51:00 <Joric> on the other hand, wxwidgets are not that fast if you use gui
436 2011-07-04 09:52:04 <phantomcircuit> erus`, it is, but you're almost certainly not going to see number of addresses as the bottle neck
437 2011-07-04 09:52:10 <lfm> joric compared to what?
438 2011-07-04 09:52:15 <phantomcircuit> you might however find yourself with something else as the bottleneck
439 2011-07-04 09:53:00 <erus`> lfm: why spend money on storage that you dont have to though
440 2011-07-04 09:53:06 <lfm> erus some things are so cheap it is a good idea to use them for minor things like privacy.
441 2011-07-04 09:54:24 <lfm> erus if 1 tb cost 100$ (and it is actually less but lets use the round number0 then 1gb is 0.10 dollar and 1 mb is 0.0001 dollar
442 2011-07-04 09:55:09 <erus`> how big is an address + label?
443 2011-07-04 09:55:36 <lfm> maybe 1 or two kb
444 2011-07-04 09:56:30 <erus`> how long should a transaction take (with 1 conf) ?
445 2011-07-04 09:56:35 <lfm> ie 0.0000001 $ or 0.0000002 $
446 2011-07-04 09:56:55 <Joric> 20 bytes + label, actually
447 2011-07-04 09:57:46 <lfm> erus nominally a block (confirmation) shows up every 10 min so on average a txn will be confirmed in 5 min but it is random and sometimes it takes an hour or more for the first confirm
448 2011-07-04 09:58:27 <btcrowan> Anyone know what's up with: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/  -- it looks like all the data from 2011 is missing
449 2011-07-04 09:58:27 <lfm> Joric: that is only the public key, there is also the private key
450 2011-07-04 09:59:08 <Joric> lfm, yeah, it's the whole keypair i don't really know how much it weights
451 2011-07-04 10:00:02 <erus`> when i recieve a payment into a labels address/account will it also show in account "" ?
452 2011-07-04 10:00:42 <joepie91> <erus`>so how do i make a new wallet?
453 2011-07-04 10:00:48 <joepie91> I believe you can start it with a commandline argument
454 2011-07-04 10:00:51 <joepie91> defining a data directory
455 2011-07-04 10:01:00 <joepie91> I'm not sure if that goes for just the wallet or also things like the blockchain etc though
456 2011-07-04 10:01:42 <Joric> blockchain too
457 2011-07-04 10:02:09 <Joric> there's no separate wallet directory yet
458 2011-07-04 10:02:10 <erus`> I'll just make a new address for each user then
459 2011-07-04 10:02:19 <erus`> will make life easier
460 2011-07-04 10:04:46 <lfm> ok I just generated 100 addresses with unique 5 char labels and it took 81920 bytes, so thats 819 bytes each
461 2011-07-04 10:05:45 <upb> huh, joepie91 still roaming free ??P
462 2011-07-04 10:05:46 <upb> ;P
463 2011-07-04 10:06:18 <joepie91> ...
464 2011-07-04 10:07:05 <lfm> best if your smart is one wallet per computer
465 2011-07-04 10:07:20 <erus`> my transaction is showing in block explorer but still no money in the account ...
466 2011-07-04 10:07:46 <erus`> this might be too slow to be practical
467 2011-07-04 10:07:55 <lfm> the standard gui wont show it till there is 1 confirmation
468 2011-07-04 10:08:29 <erus`> im using bitcoind
469 2011-07-04 10:08:30 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
470 2011-07-04 10:08:31 <gribble> 134704
471 2011-07-04 10:09:06 <lfm> erus`: did it miss getting into a block or something? It might take 30 minutes or more to get retryed
472 2011-07-04 10:09:22 <erus`> lfm: how would i know?
473 2011-07-04 10:09:55 <lfm> look at the timestamp on the newest block?
474 2011-07-04 10:12:10 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
475 2011-07-04 10:12:12 <gribble> 134706
476 2011-07-04 10:12:41 <lfm> ok well there are 2 new block since we started wondering
477 2011-07-04 10:12:55 <erus`> mine is in here Block 134703
478 2011-07-04 10:12:58 <lfm> wundering
479 2011-07-04 10:13:22 <lfm> oh ok its been there a while then
480 2011-07-04 10:14:24 <erus`> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/952ac050064270ed8a8b8f7debf4e5925e506d8817bec9190298dfaaa17dfacb#o0 that look ok?
481 2011-07-04 10:14:38 <erus`> i have double checked the address
482 2011-07-04 10:16:03 <lfm> erus`: ok what block number is your client on that is looking for atht txn?
483 2011-07-04 10:16:29 <erus`> how do i find out?
484 2011-07-04 10:16:50 <lfm> either getinfo or look at the bootom line of the window
485 2011-07-04 10:17:20 <erus`> "blocks" : 63732,
486 2011-07-04 10:17:47 <lfm> iiiii, it is way way  out of date,. how many connections?
487 2011-07-04 10:17:53 <erus`> 8
488 2011-07-04 10:18:03 <lfm> ok how many blocks now?
489 2011-07-04 10:18:06 <erus`> slowish internet at the moment
490 2011-07-04 10:18:25 <erus`> "blocks" : 66355,
491 2011-07-04 10:18:50 <lfm> ok you need to wait till it gets block 134703 then of course
492 2011-07-04 10:18:51 <erus`> i guess i have to wait until thats around my block number right?
493 2011-07-04 10:18:57 <erus`> good
494 2011-07-04 10:19:15 <erus`> thought my .01 btc was lost in the tubes
495 2011-07-04 10:19:21 <erus`> i only have .02
496 2011-07-04 10:19:23 <lfm> yup, it kinda is
497 2011-07-04 10:19:55 <erus`> i have mined for hours just for some test money
498 2011-07-04 10:20:45 <iz> erus: there is a testnet you can use for testing, where block difficulty is only at like.. 175
499 2011-07-04 10:21:08 <lfm> Ya, these days its hard to get real bitcoin. you might try testnet for test money, I could give you more testnet btc that you prolly need
500 2011-07-04 10:21:32 <lfm> or look at testnet in a can
501 2011-07-04 10:22:36 <erus`> ok cheers
502 2011-07-04 10:25:18 <lfm> erus ok about that suse status page? it looks like its not  a valid package yet.
503 2011-07-04 10:26:11 <lfm> prolly cuz bitcoin depends on beta version of wx widgets
504 2011-07-04 10:27:22 <erus`> im on windows atm...
505 2011-07-04 10:27:58 <erus`> if internet drops out does bitcoind reconnect?
506 2011-07-04 10:29:05 <lfm> erus yes it should, you can see the connection count
507 2011-07-04 10:30:26 <diki> ;;bc,stats
508 2011-07-04 10:30:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134707 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 364 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 39 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1578590.86316805
509 2011-07-04 10:38:44 <lfm> when I do ;;bc,help its not all there, how do I get the rest?
510 2011-07-04 10:41:22 <erus`> <amount> is a real and is rounded to 8 decimal places. So 1000000 = 0.01 BTC ?
511 2011-07-04 10:41:49 <lfm> not a real, it is a integer
512 2011-07-04 10:44:29 <erus`> what is a real? is that a json thing?
513 2011-07-04 10:45:15 <BlueMatt> its a standard data type
514 2011-07-04 10:45:21 <lfm> json maybe makes it a real incorrectly
515 2011-07-04 10:45:22 <BlueMatt> well not of defined bytesize afaik
516 2011-07-04 10:45:39 <erus`> is it a floating point type?
517 2011-07-04 10:45:43 <BlueMatt> yea
518 2011-07-04 10:45:52 <lfm> it should not be a floating point type
519 2011-07-04 10:46:00 <BlueMatt> a real? yes it is
520 2011-07-04 10:46:09 <lfm> amount?
521 2011-07-04 10:46:13 <erus`> ah ok
522 2011-07-04 10:46:20 <erus`> 0.01 is 0.01 then :)
523 2011-07-04 10:46:33 <BlueMatt> no, 0.01 has no binary representation
524 2011-07-04 10:46:42 <lfm> you should never use floats for btc amounts
525 2011-07-04 10:46:49 <BlueMatt> but rpc makes you
526 2011-07-04 10:47:04 <lfm> json makes you? not rpc
527 2011-07-04 10:47:05 <erus`> yeah
528 2011-07-04 10:47:14 <BlueMatt> sorry, the bitcoin rpc makes you
529 2011-07-04 10:47:19 <diki> i was wondering..how exactly do you send an rpc command?
530 2011-07-04 10:47:21 <BlueMatt> not the rpc/json standard
531 2011-07-04 10:47:30 <diki> is it via a query string or..it's more of a socket level thing?
532 2011-07-04 10:47:32 <lfm> take it as a char string and convert it to satoshis directly
533 2011-07-04 10:47:37 <erus`> diki: either connect to the tcp port or do bitcoind <command>
534 2011-07-04 10:47:47 <BlueMatt> lfm: but bitcoin doesnt let you...
535 2011-07-04 10:47:54 <diki> yeah, via port, but how do you pass the command?
536 2011-07-04 10:48:00 <erus`> string
537 2011-07-04 10:48:10 <diki> how?
538 2011-07-04 10:48:28 <lfm> bluematt well bitcoin is wrong then. (and I dont think it is bitcoin that prevents it, it is some stupid socet package)
539 2011-07-04 10:48:32 <erus`> send the string down the socket
540 2011-07-04 10:48:42 <diki> and the client responds?
541 2011-07-04 10:48:51 <lfm> socket
542 2011-07-04 10:48:57 <BlueMatt> lfm: no, bitcoin could easily represent all money in satoshis, but it currently doesnt
543 2011-07-04 10:48:57 <erus`> the server responds?
544 2011-07-04 10:49:05 <BlueMatt> lfm: and I totally agree, it should
545 2011-07-04 10:49:37 <erus`> what is a satoshi?
546 2011-07-04 10:49:47 <lfm> bluemat well it is gonna get round off errors then. where is it doing this? in the rpc.cpp module?
547 2011-07-04 10:49:51 <BlueMatt> erus`: base unit
548 2011-07-04 10:50:26 <lfm> erus 1 satoshi is 0.00000001 BTC
549 2011-07-04 10:50:29 <BlueMatt> lfm: yea, but no it doesnt get round off errors as it rounds everything to the 8 decimal places bitcoin supports and that is well within the size of a float
550 2011-07-04 10:51:00 <lfm> size of a double anyway,
551 2011-07-04 10:51:18 <BlueMatt> yea
552 2011-07-04 10:51:22 <erus`> I thought someone said in the future you will be able to divide a bitcoin smaller than 8 decimal places
553 2011-07-04 10:52:06 <lfm> bluematt and I think there can still be nasty surprizes if the code is not very very carefull
554 2011-07-04 10:52:33 <lfm> erus only theoreticlly, practically it is not divisible smaller
555 2011-07-04 10:52:41 <BlueMatt> lfm: oh, I know, but currently it is careful enough that it is not currently a problem
556 2011-07-04 10:52:54 <BlueMatt> however, yea, we should not continue to use floats if we have a major change elsewhere
557 2011-07-04 10:53:32 <erus`> BlueMatt usings some bignum type datatype instead?
558 2011-07-04 10:53:40 <lfm> sigh. it is also a bad example for other people too, they'll think they can do it when they dont know how to be careful enuf
559 2011-07-04 10:53:54 <BlueMatt> lfm: absolutely
560 2011-07-04 10:54:01 <BlueMatt> erus`: no, a whole number
561 2011-07-04 10:54:04 <lfm> erus 64 bit ints are fine
562 2011-07-04 10:54:08 <BlueMatt> an int64
563 2011-07-04 10:54:46 <Diablo-D3> wtf
564 2011-07-04 10:54:54 <erus`> i keep forgetting there well only ever be a finite number of bitcoins in existence
565 2011-07-04 10:55:05 <b4epoche_> Diablo-D3:  nice intro
566 2011-07-04 10:55:15 <lfm> erus yup, 21 million btc
567 2011-07-04 10:55:29 <Diablo-D3> I delete code that equates to zero
568 2011-07-04 10:55:31 <lfm> less a few cents
569 2011-07-04 10:55:35 <Diablo-D3> it no longer works right
570 2011-07-04 10:55:51 <Joric> i totally missed the point where "Bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places. We are very proud of this fact" had become "fuck you! you should not use more than two, all after that is a dust spam"
571 2011-07-04 10:56:14 <Diablo-D3> Joric: lol
572 2011-07-04 10:56:22 <Diablo-D3> someone fails at deflationary code
573 2011-07-04 10:57:10 <lfm> joric you like dust spam or ???
574 2011-07-04 10:57:17 <b4epoche_> Diablo-D3:  you writing house-of-cards code?
575 2011-07-04 10:58:34 <Diablo-D3> er
576 2011-07-04 10:58:37 <Diablo-D3> someone fails at deflationary currency
577 2011-07-04 10:58:39 <Diablo-D3> also
578 2011-07-04 10:58:42 <Diablo-D3> (Zrotr(0x00000000U, 25) ^ Zrotr(0x00000000U, 14) ^ ((0x00000000U) >> 3U))
579 2011-07-04 10:58:45 <Diablo-D3> is this not 0?
580 2011-07-04 11:00:31 <lfm> whats Zrotr?
581 2011-07-04 11:01:10 <mu-b> hmmm, if the shift is logical and not arthimetic, then that should be zero i think :)
582 2011-07-04 11:01:40 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
583 2011-07-04 11:01:40 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> shLONG: you're probably passing "0.0" instead of float("0.0") to your JSON library.
584 2011-07-04 11:01:48 <lfm> I never seen a rotate turn a zero word into a non zero word
585 2011-07-04 11:02:21 <b4epoche_> is there any way to 'private message' someone on the forums?
586 2011-07-04 11:02:35 <lfm> ya
587 2011-07-04 11:02:44 <b4epoche_> or does anyone know how to contact "udibr"
588 2011-07-04 11:03:02 <Diablo-D3> mu-b: if its arthimetic is STILL ZERO
589 2011-07-04 11:03:07 <BlueMatt> yea, click their name, and find the private message button
590 2011-07-04 11:03:22 <Diablo-D3> 0 rotated in any direction with any method is still 0.
591 2011-07-04 11:03:29 <b4epoche_> well, I suppose it would help if I were actually logged in on the forums
592 2011-07-04 11:06:39 <lfm> Diablo-D3: you might find a use for such code by carefully timeing it you could tell which particular model of some CPU line you are on by how the hardware optimizes it?
593 2011-07-04 11:07:31 <Diablo-D3> lfm: its a gpu, not a cpu.
594 2011-07-04 11:07:49 <Diablo-D3> okay so Im going about.... 378.
595 2011-07-04 11:08:01 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  it's that second part "find the private message button" that seems to be the problem (even when logged in).  Maybe because I'm a "Brand new" user.
596 2011-07-04 11:08:02 <Diablo-D3> it got very tiny little faster with hand chopping dead code out
597 2011-07-04 11:08:46 <Diablo-D3> to get any more optimum, I'd have to draw fucking bits out
598 2011-07-04 11:09:10 <Diablo-D3> like, little fucking graphs and shit
599 2011-07-04 11:09:21 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: I always see "Send this member a personal message." though I think users can turn it off for themselves if they want
600 2011-07-04 11:09:22 <lfm> b4epoche_ ya, thats probably it. you are too new to write private messages
601 2011-07-04 11:09:51 <BlueMatt> really, new users cant pm, thats shit
602 2011-07-04 11:10:01 <Diablo-D3> either that, or start removing instructions and see which ones it doenst actually need
603 2011-07-04 11:10:18 <BlueMatt> spamers wont spam by pm, they do it by posts-more views that way
604 2011-07-04 11:10:24 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  I can see that...
605 2011-07-04 11:10:35 <Joric> BlueMatt, are you sure number of rounds should depend of cpu power? what if the wallet would be transferred on a pocket pc? keepass uses fixed 6000 rounds.
606 2011-07-04 11:11:17 <lfm> b4epoche_ when I went to user udibr 's page I found the button to "Send this member a personal message."
607 2011-07-04 11:11:25 <BlueMatt> Joric: it would still work on a pocket pc, it would just take a second or two, I mean .1 seconds on high end hardware would still only be something like 2-3 seconds on really slow hardware
608 2011-07-04 11:12:12 <b4epoche_> so, with no pm on forums, does anyone know how to contact "udibr"?
609 2011-07-04 11:12:27 <b4epoche_> lfm:  yea, I don't see that:  http://snapplr.com/xs9w
610 2011-07-04 11:12:30 <erus`> can bitcoind handle concurrent requests?
611 2011-07-04 11:12:32 <BlueMatt> <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  I can see that... <- why cant you pm if you can see that?
612 2011-07-04 11:12:34 <lfm> b4epoche I found button to send him private message
613 2011-07-04 11:12:46 <BlueMatt> oh cant...
614 2011-07-04 11:13:10 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  no, I was saying that "I can see" why n00bs can't pm
615 2011-07-04 11:13:23 <BlueMatt> hm, disagree, but ok
616 2011-07-04 11:13:24 <lfm> b4epoche_ http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4443
617 2011-07-04 11:13:30 <gribble> cdecker was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 days, 17 hours, 1 minute, and 53 seconds ago: <cdecker> See you ^^
618 2011-07-04 11:13:30 <wardearia> ;;seen cdecker
619 2011-07-04 11:13:31 <b4epoche_> unfortunate choice of words ;-)
620 2011-07-04 11:13:50 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
621 2011-07-04 11:13:50 <wardearia> ;;later tell cdecker #BCBot is joining and parting #bitcoin-unreg every 60 seconds
622 2011-07-04 11:13:54 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: the link work: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=4443
623 2011-07-04 11:14:00 <BlueMatt> ?
624 2011-07-04 11:14:00 <wardearia> durr, -#
625 2011-07-04 11:14:22 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  http://snapplr.com/m76m
626 2011-07-04 11:14:33 <BlueMatt> nope, ok
627 2011-07-04 11:14:37 <BlueMatt> then you need to post more ;)
628 2011-07-04 11:14:57 <b4epoche_> hmm...  isn't too much posting part of the problem?
629 2011-07-04 11:15:01 <lfm> b4epoche_ oh ok, I see you snap, ya the button is not there, you must be too new
630 2011-07-04 11:25:14 <riush> is the wallet dump format (showwallet branch) fixed now, or might it still change?
631 2011-07-04 11:25:21 <Joric> BlueMatt, did you notice wxGetPasswordFromUser doesnt pay attention to what was pressed - ok, cancel or close? =) i'd use wxTextEntryDialog(parent, message, caption, defaultValue,
632 2011-07-04 11:25:58 <BlueMatt> well if you hit cancel, it returns empty string, and it can just tell you to enter something next time
633 2011-07-04 11:26:01 <BlueMatt> (like it does now)
634 2011-07-04 11:26:43 <Joric> not nice!
635 2011-07-04 11:27:19 <BlueMatt> meh, it works
636 2011-07-04 11:29:03 <lfm> does it return empty string even if there IS a password entered?
637 2011-07-04 11:29:11 <erus`> what if my password is "" ?
638 2011-07-04 11:29:12 <BlueMatt> yes
639 2011-07-04 11:29:19 <BlueMatt> erus`: then it tells you to fuck off
640 2011-07-04 11:29:24 <erus`> lol
641 2011-07-04 11:29:32 <lfm> erus you deserve what you get then
642 2011-07-04 11:29:42 <erus`> "blocks" : 124026,
643 2011-07-04 11:29:46 <erus`> nearly there :O
644 2011-07-04 11:30:00 <BlueMatt> erus`: then it posts your wallet on the forum and informs people that you are a dumbass ;)
645 2011-07-04 11:30:01 <Joric> lfm, this is not the point, pressing cancel you should expect cancel )
646 2011-07-04 11:30:45 <erus`> jokes on them it was the stolen mtgox account
647 2011-07-04 11:31:01 <lfm> Joric: ya, theoreticlly Id agree but I think to conform to "bitcoin sytle and practices guide" you would need to take BlueMatt's side
648 2011-07-04 11:31:18 <BlueMatt> lfm: ???
649 2011-07-04 11:31:39 <lfm> Im saying there are much worse things in htere to worry about
650 2011-07-04 11:31:47 <Joric> lfm, it should just close the dialog, without nagging
651 2011-07-04 11:32:02 <BlueMatt> actually, it checks size too late, let me got change that
652 2011-07-04 11:32:25 <Joric> now it spawns additional dialog 'are you sure to encrypt your wallet'? in ALL cases
653 2011-07-04 11:32:31 <BlueMatt> yep, thats wrong
654 2011-07-04 11:40:17 <erus`> is anyone charging tx fee yet?
655 2011-07-04 11:41:33 <Joric> probably no merchants transfer less than 0.01 currently
656 2011-07-04 11:42:33 <Joric> though i didn't try that with mybitcoin
657 2011-07-04 11:43:43 <lfm> erus depends what you're doing. I think Luke-jr's pool will only mine with txn with a fee
658 2011-07-04 11:44:03 <BlueMatt> Joric: well, Ill fix that, but wxTextEntryDialog becomes a pain as it needs parent...its not a big problem anyway, if you want to code it Ill push it, but its not worth the time
659 2011-07-04 11:44:04 <lfm> He only generates a few blocks a day thos it seems
660 2011-07-04 11:45:41 <Joric> BlueMatt, are you getting paid there? i'd go fulltime )
661 2011-07-04 11:45:53 <BlueMatt> Im getting paid for this?
662 2011-07-04 11:45:55 <BlueMatt> since when?
663 2011-07-04 11:48:32 <erus`> rpc commands are taking ages to complete :(
664 2011-07-04 11:48:49 <lfm> Bluematt you going to that CIA conference, get them to hire you to do bitcoin stuff! grin
665 2011-07-04 11:49:06 <BlueMatt> what cia conference?
666 2011-07-04 11:49:10 <lfm> Oh ya it was Gavin goin gthere
667 2011-07-04 11:49:13 <BlueMatt> gavin gave a presentation there very briefly
668 2011-07-04 11:49:18 <BlueMatt> quite a while ago
669 2011-07-04 11:49:30 <gavinandresen> ages and weeks ago....
670 2011-07-04 11:49:42 <BlueMatt> wait, when did you get on?
671 2011-07-04 11:49:44 <lfm> I thot there was a bigger one comming up
672 2011-07-04 11:49:56 <Joric> they only pay for CIA patches
673 2011-07-04 11:50:01 <enquirer> i provide assassination services for btc
674 2011-07-04 11:50:20 <lfm> enquirer: oh cool, hows buisness?
675 2011-07-04 11:51:00 <gavinandresen> Can somebody sanity-check my no-commas pull request?  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/379
676 2011-07-04 11:51:24 <enquirer> that's advert in case cia reads this thread
677 2011-07-04 11:51:26 <Joric> haha poor Germans
678 2011-07-04 11:51:58 <Joric> along with russians though
679 2011-07-04 11:52:44 <lfm> isnt there localization for commas and decimal points?
680 2011-07-04 11:52:46 <jtaylor> btc does not use test driven development? this seems like a perfect case where it would be better than manual review
681 2011-07-04 11:53:39 <erus`> jtaylor: they wanna use tests but they need to be written first
682 2011-07-04 11:53:51 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: jwsample * r120 /branches/keystore: Branch for key store interface
683 2011-07-04 11:53:51 <Joric> don't know for germans, i never ever use a comma and localized excel drives me crazy
684 2011-07-04 11:53:53 <erus`> there was an issue ticket
685 2011-07-04 11:54:54 <apr> anyone here got any info about pushpool?
686 2011-07-04 11:55:26 <apr> what does the upstrearesult and ourresult field mean in the share table? when is upstreamresult set to anything ? (currently it seems to be empty regardless of ourresult)
687 2011-07-04 11:55:33 <jtaylor> erus`: that does not seem very hard in this case, or is there no test runner in place?
688 2011-07-04 11:56:06 <erus`> i dunno. search on github there was a ticket and a few devs commented on it
689 2011-07-04 11:56:12 <gavinandresen> jtaylor: there's a test framework in place, although there's also a pull to improve it....
690 2011-07-04 11:57:16 <lfm> gavinandresen  isnt there localization for commas and decimal points?
691 2011-07-04 11:57:23 <jtaylor> urg boost unit test, I don't like that one
692 2011-07-04 11:58:14 <gavinandresen> lfm: yup.  I did the simplest possible thing that can work, which is : decimal point is .   And no commas.
693 2011-07-04 11:58:49 <lfm> ie ignore localizeation, might work I guess
694 2011-07-04 11:59:14 <gavinandresen> lfm: to do it "right" means do all the localization stuff and then write new dialog boxes that parrot back the amount you're sending, just in case you have your locale setup wrong
695 2011-07-04 11:59:30 <Joric> gavinandresen, you just removed thousands separators, that's it? how about further localization
696 2011-07-04 11:59:36 <gavinandresen> lfm: ... and that's way too much work for too little gain.
697 2011-07-04 11:59:39 <erus`> will bitcoind stop using so much cpu when it catches up with the block head?
698 2011-07-04 11:59:46 <lfm> ya, Ive never actually tried it, just heard about it
699 2011-07-04 12:00:25 <gavinandresen> Joric:  knock yourself out, but the whole "enter how many bitcoins" UI is changing anyway.
700 2011-07-04 12:00:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: it is?
701 2011-07-04 12:00:42 <BlueMatt> or do you mean qt?
702 2011-07-04 12:00:46 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I mean qt
703 2011-07-04 12:00:50 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
704 2011-07-04 12:00:51 <erus`> ugh qt
705 2011-07-04 12:00:57 <erus`> why you no like wx?
706 2011-07-04 12:01:13 <gavinandresen> (and the whole "Send 11 millicoins" instead of "send 0.011 BTC")
707 2011-07-04 12:01:14 <BlueMatt> because we have like one person even willing to touch it
708 2011-07-04 12:01:17 <Joric> i'd love having the fee settings page in 0.4 along with wallet encryption
709 2011-07-04 12:01:30 <BlueMatt> what fee settings page?
710 2011-07-04 12:01:58 <gavinandresen> When we see lots of people working on, and progress on, the qt GUI and NO progress on the wx GUI, that's an easy decision.
711 2011-07-04 12:02:51 <lfm> plus all the build problems with wx
712 2011-07-04 12:03:19 <BlueMatt> well thats just because we used a development release instead of a stable one
713 2011-07-04 12:03:24 <BlueMatt> why satoshi did that I have no clue
714 2011-07-04 12:03:47 <Joric> http://i53.tinypic.com/2dj2flk.png
715 2011-07-04 12:03:53 <lfm> bluematt it was something to do with char set support ofr the other language support
716 2011-07-04 12:03:55 <Joric> 'transaction fees'
717 2011-07-04 12:04:05 <Joric> from http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10923.0
718 2011-07-04 12:04:36 <BlueMatt> Joric: well I never bothered to update that to CWallet, someone did, its a pull req on my repo, but imo that is a bad change anyway
719 2011-07-04 12:04:58 <BlueMatt> Joric: mostly from the point of "users can send txes that will never be confirmed or relayed" pov
720 2011-07-04 12:05:21 <BlueMatt> though the clearer messages is probably better
721 2011-07-04 12:11:14 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: that patch seems fine to me...
722 2011-07-04 12:11:22 <Joric> gavinandresen, how's the whole architecture btw is there a strict ui<->core separation?
723 2011-07-04 12:11:25 <BlueMatt> but dont take that as meaning anything
724 2011-07-04 12:12:02 <marvin__> ;;bc,estimate
725 2011-07-04 12:12:03 <gribble> 1586263.64353264
726 2011-07-04 12:13:14 <gavinandresen> Joric: internal architecture is a mess, but the plan is to incrementally clean it up (sipa's CWallet is a first step)
727 2011-07-04 12:14:08 <gribble> 1586263.64353264
728 2011-07-04 12:14:08 <marvin__> ;;bc,estimate
729 2011-07-04 12:17:32 <Joric> marvin__, why twice?
730 2011-07-04 12:21:23 <Joric> btw it's getting tougher
731 2011-07-04 12:21:31 <Joric> c97e476877c7c7ffb56240be6ee0f0844f77df973dba8cab434c1d5524e03a45 06.23.11 01:55:08 never forget
732 2011-07-04 12:21:36 <Joric> 4,124,050 shares
733 2011-07-04 12:21:52 <Joric> doucheblocks
734 2011-07-04 12:26:51 <Joric> upnp setting grayed out in 0.3.24rc1
735 2011-07-04 12:27:05 <Joric> not sure why
736 2011-07-04 12:28:43 <BlueMatt> Joric: the built one?
737 2011-07-04 12:29:27 <Joric> the official one
738 2011-07-04 12:29:34 <BlueMatt> oh god wtf...
739 2011-07-04 12:29:36 <BlueMatt> win32 or linux?
740 2011-07-04 12:29:39 <b4epoche_> Joric:  it's pretty decoupled UI/Core
741 2011-07-04 12:29:41 <Joric> win32
742 2011-07-04 12:29:52 <BlueMatt> alright, Ill make sure its fixed in the next one
743 2011-07-04 12:30:05 <zapnap> looks like my endian fixes for mac in pushpool don't work quite right :( compiles but i think the byte ordering is still wrong. getting garbled parameters.
744 2011-07-04 12:30:29 <zapnap> cpuminer seems to have the same issue? anyone have any luck / experience with this?
745 2011-07-04 12:32:02 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: couple things: you broke mingw makefile with unit test (you forgot to link boost_unit_test_framework) also, why is test_bitcoin not test_bitcoin.exe?
746 2011-07-04 12:32:32 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: 'cause I'm an idiot.
747 2011-07-04 12:32:39 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rc08c11c / src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl : Removed more dead code - http://bit.ly/lOwy2E
748 2011-07-04 12:32:59 <gavinandresen> (and I don't have a mingw-cross-compile environment setup)
749 2011-07-04 12:33:55 <Joric> i'm rebuilding rc1 with USE_UPNP:=1 added in the beginning not sure it'll help
750 2011-07-04 12:33:56 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ah, ok well you just need -lboost_unit_test_framework-mgw45-mt-s-1_43 and test_bitcoin->test_bitcoin.exe
751 2011-07-04 12:35:10 <Joric> it actually helped, upnp is not grayed out anymore
752 2011-07-04 12:35:31 <BlueMatt> Joric: yea, the makefile mustve been messed up, Ill investigate more before I build again
753 2011-07-04 12:36:46 <Joric> care to add total number of blocks as here? http://pastebin.com/ESurLrrL :) i just love it
754 2011-07-04 12:37:26 <BlueMatt> problem is any bad node can mess with you then
755 2011-07-04 12:37:36 <Joric> yeah, not very safe as is
756 2011-07-04 12:37:54 <BlueMatt> its not high on the priority list, and would need redone before it could be merged
757 2011-07-04 12:40:17 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
758 2011-07-04 12:40:19 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134731 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 340 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 22 hours, 56 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1586057.70213134
759 2011-07-04 12:43:38 <erus`> my money has gone in
760 2011-07-04 12:43:48 <erus`> only took a few hours :D
761 2011-07-04 12:44:42 <Joric> erus`, did you try different merchant services? which one is the best?
762 2011-07-04 12:44:50 <erus`> is the bitcoin gui just a wrapper over bitcoind?
763 2011-07-04 12:45:01 <erus`> Joric: no im writing my own
764 2011-07-04 12:45:21 <Joric> erus`, it's linked, not using rpc
765 2011-07-04 12:46:33 <erus`> does bitcoin.exe start bitcoind or just copy the code from bitcoind?
766 2011-07-04 12:47:27 <Joric> they work independently, bitcoin.exe is just oversized bitcoind
767 2011-07-04 12:50:48 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jgarzik
768 2011-07-04 12:50:49 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 9 hours, 45 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <jgarzik> doublec: poke BlueMatt tomorrow, or file an issue on github.  We'll take care of it, one way or another.
769 2011-07-04 12:51:59 <erus`> move <fromaccount> <toaccount> <amount> [minconf=1] [comment]
770 2011-07-04 12:52:05 <erus`> what format is comment in here?
771 2011-07-04 12:55:22 <apr> guys, how many shares can i expect to mine on "testnet" before hitting a block ?
772 2011-07-04 12:56:59 <Joric> apr, http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/q/getdifficulty
773 2011-07-04 12:57:00 <etneg> hi
774 2011-07-04 12:57:07 <etneg> just trying to understand bitcoin transanctions
775 2011-07-04 12:57:11 <etneg> so when a new transaction takes place, it is broadcast to the entire network and then anyone who wants can try to construct a block incorporating the new transactions? and whoever is first at generating a valid block and broadcasting it is rewarded with a certain number of new bitcoins?
776 2011-07-04 12:57:37 <Joric> more specifically, http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/q/hashestowin
777 2011-07-04 12:57:48 <Joric> more precisely, hashestowin / 2^32
778 2011-07-04 12:57:52 <nanotube> etneg: yes
779 2011-07-04 12:57:54 <etneg> was tha for me?
780 2011-07-04 12:58:08 <Joric> nanotube, does gribble have testnet stats?
781 2011-07-04 12:58:16 <etneg> nanotube: sweet
782 2011-07-04 12:58:21 <nanotube> Joric: no
783 2011-07-04 12:58:54 <etneg> i think im missig some subtle details here
784 2011-07-04 12:59:04 <etneg> is there anything else besides say transanction fees, etc?
785 2011-07-04 12:59:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: are you planning on "Do not use comma as thousands separator" for 0.3.24?
786 2011-07-04 12:59:47 <apr> Joric: am I right in reading that, as "on average" (very loose) 500 shares of difficulty 1?
787 2011-07-04 13:00:03 <nanotube> etneg: there are transaction fees, and block bounty, to reward the block creator.
788 2011-07-04 13:00:14 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I think it is critical enough (and safe enough) that it should be in 0.3.24.
789 2011-07-04 13:00:29 <nanotube> then what doyou use as thousands separator?
790 2011-07-04 13:00:36 <nanotube> space maybe
791 2011-07-04 13:00:38 <BlueMatt> nanotube: you dont
792 2011-07-04 13:00:39 <nanotube> ?
793 2011-07-04 13:00:42 <nanotube> ah