1 2011-07-28 00:03:41 <IO-> wow
  2 2011-07-28 00:08:59 <IO-> i hope the twitter intern doesn't get in any trouble
  3 2011-07-28 00:11:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> blame a hacker
  4 2011-07-28 00:11:59 <BitcoinForNewegg> if they prove no hacker did anythign blame it on socuial engineering
  5 2011-07-28 00:12:04 <BitcoinForNewegg> I hear its how sony operates
  6 2011-07-28 00:13:36 <IO-> i blame Diablo-D3
  7 2011-07-28 00:13:44 <IO-> if he was 4D this wouldn't have happened
  8 2011-07-28 00:13:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> but anyways I prefer xoring with the last 128 bit number a brute force attack woudl check if it started at 0x1 and counted upwards
  9 2011-07-28 00:14:06 <MaggyO> does newegg accept btc yet
 10 2011-07-28 00:14:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> jjjrmy does
 11 2011-07-28 00:15:38 <IO-> i doubt newegg will accept BTC for a very, very long time
 12 2011-07-28 00:15:43 <IO-> about the same time visa does
 13 2011-07-28 00:15:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> so if a brute force attack checked every 128 bit number, starting with 1 and increaseing, whats the last it woudl check?
 14 2011-07-28 00:16:04 <MaggyO> what if we protest outside neweggs online stores
 15 2011-07-28 00:16:07 <MaggyO> and force them to
 16 2011-07-28 00:16:34 <BitcoinForNewegg> u mean like sending them pings wih the protest in the payload?
 17 2011-07-28 00:16:34 <IO-> ... like... telnet'ing and typing WE DEMAND YOU ACCEPT BTC? ... over and over?
 18 2011-07-28 00:16:40 <MaggyO> haha
 19 2011-07-28 00:16:51 <IO-> fuck that, i'll write a perl script
 20 2011-07-28 00:16:51 <MaggyO> no like going to their datacenters and annoying the one technician there
 21 2011-07-28 00:17:03 <IO-> dont be silly, i'm sure there's probably 2 or 3
 22 2011-07-28 00:17:09 <MaggyO> haha
 23 2011-07-28 00:18:42 <BitcoinForNewegg> theres prolly one that does the website
 24 2011-07-28 00:18:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> and 8 that generate stats and sen dotu emails
 25 2011-07-28 00:19:05 <MaggyO> and 8 that post positive comments for them
 26 2011-07-28 00:19:18 <BitcoinForNewegg> newegg is gettign creepy liek search for stuff when u are logged inadn they email u it as a suggestiont he enxt day
 27 2011-07-28 00:19:20 <MaggyO> and flame anyone thats had an issue
 28 2011-07-28 00:19:43 <Diablo-D3> what happened?
 29 2011-07-28 00:19:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> nah comments are real
 30 2011-07-28 00:19:50 <Diablo-D3> wh am i being blamed?
 31 2011-07-28 00:20:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> we knwo u did it just confess already
 32 2011-07-28 00:20:10 <MaggyO> if people keep pestering new egg with BTC emails
 33 2011-07-28 00:20:12 <MaggyO> theyll cave
 34 2011-07-28 00:20:53 <IO-> CFO's wont care
 35 2011-07-28 00:21:01 <IO-> they'd be scared , its still early
 36 2011-07-28 00:21:17 <MaggyO> negative nancy
 37 2011-07-28 00:21:31 <BitcoinForNewegg> nah cfo wonte care, email filter and secretary takes care of that
 38 2011-07-28 00:21:32 <MaggyO> i bet if 5 people from here email them, it will change that million dollar companies thought process
 39 2011-07-28 00:21:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> million?
 40 2011-07-28 00:21:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> lol
 41 2011-07-28 00:21:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> million isnothing
 42 2011-07-28 00:22:34 <IO-> MaggyO: make 2 gmail accounts, 2 hotmail accounts, and 2 hushmail accounts and do it
 43 2011-07-28 00:22:46 <MaggyO> yah
 44 2011-07-28 00:22:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> post in other thoughts on coments
 45 2011-07-28 00:22:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> or cons
 46 2011-07-28 00:22:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> cannot buy with bitcoin
 47 2011-07-28 00:23:06 <MaggyO> surely theres a perl script to automate this btc badgering
 48 2011-07-28 00:23:10 <MaggyO> its 2011
 49 2011-07-28 00:24:16 <BitcoinForNewegg> i wrote a program once to download newegg
 50 2011-07-28 00:24:33 <forrestv> i wrote a scraper for price comparison for newegg: http://forre.st/storage :)
 51 2011-07-28 00:24:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> i wanted to compare prices on stuff over time
 52 2011-07-28 00:25:05 <BitcoinForNewegg> lke see price per 1 GB of ram over a 10 year period
 53 2011-07-28 00:25:08 <MaggyO> did you guys fit in dating women somewhere between this
 54 2011-07-28 00:25:15 <BitcoinForNewegg> no
 55 2011-07-28 00:25:15 <forrestv> yes
 56 2011-07-28 00:25:21 <MaggyO> lawl
 57 2011-07-28 00:25:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> newegg pretty much changes prices starting ont he first of the month but it takes them a week to finish
 58 2011-07-28 00:26:42 <forrestv> BitcoinForNewegg, i'm collecting historical harddrive data
 59 2011-07-28 00:26:48 <forrestv> going to make a graph of it sometime
 60 2011-07-28 00:26:51 <forrestv> just collecting for now
 61 2011-07-28 00:26:51 <MaggyO> hard drive development has stalled
 62 2011-07-28 00:26:57 <MaggyO> traditional ones i mean
 63 2011-07-28 00:27:09 <forrestv> it's tracked ssds since the beginning
 64 2011-07-28 00:27:17 <forrestv> and it's tracking all types of flash memory :p
 65 2011-07-28 00:27:40 <MaggyO> i bought an SSD recently
 66 2011-07-28 00:27:52 <BitcoinForNewegg> im getting this after my 8 monitor setup at work
 67 2011-07-28 00:27:55 <MaggyO> youd think that would be a simple install and forget process but nope
 68 2011-07-28 00:27:58 <MaggyO> SSDs are tricky
 69 2011-07-28 00:28:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> forrest 3TB drives dropped to $15
 70 2011-07-28 00:28:19 <BitcoinForNewegg> 150
 71 2011-07-28 00:28:28 <BitcoinForNewegg> a coupel years ago 1.5 TB were at that price
 72 2011-07-28 00:28:38 <BitcoinForNewegg> and a coupel years before that 750GB were at $150
 73 2011-07-28 00:28:48 <MaggyO> did you track the size per price
 74 2011-07-28 00:28:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> i buy new drives at $150 when I can get double the space I previously had
 75 2011-07-28 00:29:25 <MaggyO> we stayed at 2TB for quite a while
 76 2011-07-28 00:29:35 <BitcoinForNewegg> new ones start at $300 and slowly drop in price to 150 and sit there for a long time
 77 2011-07-28 00:29:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats nota drive issue
 78 2011-07-28 00:29:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> its a LBA64 issue
 79 2011-07-28 00:30:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> they used 32 bit addresses for blocks
 80 2011-07-28 00:30:20 <MaggyO> it wasnt a density issue at all?
 81 2011-07-28 00:30:25 <BitcoinForNewegg> which is 2^32 * 512 kb
 82 2011-07-28 00:30:32 <BitcoinForNewegg> not entirely
 83 2011-07-28 00:30:34 <MaggyO> i think the tech is reaching harder and harder returns
 84 2011-07-28 00:30:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> it always is
 85 2011-07-28 00:30:44 <MaggyO> it went from ~500 to 2TB relatively quickly
 86 2011-07-28 00:30:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats what exponsntial growth is
 87 2011-07-28 00:30:49 <MaggyO> then it stalled
 88 2011-07-28 00:31:17 <MaggyO> flash will overtake the size issue i guess eventually
 89 2011-07-28 00:31:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> it already has
 90 2011-07-28 00:31:36 <MaggyO> not really, at comparable prices
 91 2011-07-28 00:31:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> density wise flash is smaller
 92 2011-07-28 00:31:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> much smaller
 93 2011-07-28 00:31:57 <MaggyO> yah
 94 2011-07-28 00:33:18 <BitcoinForNewegg> anyoen know if taking like a 20-30 TB volume and presentign it to ESXi 5 then making 10-15 2TB VMDK files for windows to software RAID is a good idea?
 95 2011-07-28 00:35:56 <IO-> one thing to know about VMFS , there is no chkdsk/fsck
 96 2011-07-28 00:36:01 <IO-> if it gets fucked your fucked
 97 2011-07-28 00:36:22 <IO-> a client of mine spend $1200 in after hours weekend support calls to vmware to learn that
 98 2011-07-28 00:47:43 <Amtal> About how many man-hours would it be, to implement the bitcoin protocol?
 99 2011-07-28 00:48:15 <MaggyO> google man hours or microsoft
100 2011-07-28 00:48:17 <SuprTiggr> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/biztalkgeneral/thread/77dda6f3-7f3f-4bc4-b582-768f526bf356
101 2011-07-28 00:49:21 <Amtal> Hah.
102 2011-07-28 00:49:53 <Amtal> Okay, fine, alternate approach: where's the bitcoin main client source repository, and which files should I start with to figure out the protocol?
103 2011-07-28 00:50:50 <doublec> source is linked from the main page of bitcoin.org
104 2011-07-28 00:51:33 <doublec> where it says "Latest Source Code"
105 2011-07-28 00:51:54 <lfm> est 4 man hours to build bitcoin for the first time on a linux system. 12 on mswin.
106 2011-07-28 00:52:04 <MaggyO> lawl
107 2011-07-28 00:53:18 <lfm> thats if it is one person, if you have extra persons available to help, double it
108 2011-07-28 01:02:26 <sacarlson> oh I think I might just found something that might be a problem in merge mining at least in my version both mined the transaction on old net and new net  and both took the transaction fee,  so the transaction fee is paid 2 times
109 2011-07-28 01:03:37 <forrestv> sacarlson, isn't that the point ..?
110 2011-07-28 01:03:44 <forrestv> you mean one time on one network and one time on the other?
111 2011-07-28 01:04:40 <sacarlson> forrestv: well since you can transact on both network to and from seems like the miner or the fee is doubling
112 2011-07-28 01:05:06 <sacarlson> forrestv: the person pays only once but it's collected twice
113 2011-07-28 01:05:20 <AlonzoTG> om
114 2011-07-28 01:05:36 <AlonzoTG> What is the status of: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Infrastructure ?
115 2011-07-28 01:05:40 <AlonzoTG> Is it a proposal?
116 2011-07-28 01:05:42 <AlonzoTG> Is it what we have?
117 2011-07-28 01:05:48 <AlonzoTG> what's up with it anyway?
118 2011-07-28 01:06:39 <forrestv> AlonzoTG, it's pretty much what we have, just there is bitcoin's GUI tightly bundled with bitcoind
119 2011-07-28 01:06:47 <forrestv> and it's most popular and doesn't fit into the model
120 2011-07-28 01:06:58 <AlonzoTG> I have a number of problems that I'm working right now, and understanding the inner workings of the peer and wallet
121 2011-07-28 01:07:47 <AlonzoTG> I think I want to implement a inetd based peer, which I'm 80% sure is feasible.
122 2011-07-28 01:08:04 <AlonzoTG> but inetd is good for all the passive activities of the peer -- accepting incomming connections.
123 2011-07-28 01:08:13 <AlonzoTG> Does it need to do anything on a schedule?
124 2011-07-28 01:08:15 <sacarlson> forrestv: so maybe that's the way it should be maybe you can't move the fee's between the two miner nets so it's not a problem?
125 2011-07-28 01:10:09 <forrestv> sacarlson, i think that that's the way it should be
126 2011-07-28 01:10:14 <forrestv> incentive for mining on both
127 2011-07-28 01:10:20 <sacarlson> forrestv: cool
128 2011-07-28 01:10:21 <forrestv> and you're contributing to both so it's fair
129 2011-07-28 01:11:01 <sacarlson> forrestv: I'll try create a transaction that has a 100 coin fee and see if I can send it to the other net
130 2011-07-28 01:11:38 <forrestv> sacarlson, what do you mean 'send it to the other net'?
131 2011-07-28 01:11:46 <forrestv> you can't move coins across nets ..
132 2011-07-28 01:11:55 <sacarlson> forrestv: well I'm mining the old and new net at the same time
133 2011-07-28 01:12:41 <sacarlson> forrestv: yes that's what I'm thinking it will return the transaction on the recieve as insufisiant funds I think
134 2011-07-28 01:14:40 <sacarlson> forrestv: but I have been able to send funds from old to new and new to old as long as the coin was produced before the change of merge mining I think
135 2011-07-28 01:21:53 <forrestv> sacarlson, so you're not really sending across nets, you're just transferring it on one
136 2011-07-28 01:25:50 <sacarlson> forrestv: this is like a simulated namecoin merge mine at the time when namecoin starts to accept merge mine but the old miners are still running
137 2011-07-28 01:26:54 <sacarlson> with the old client and new clients still working together and old mines and new miners all running on the same net just different chains I guess
138 2011-07-28 01:28:42 <sacarlson> maybe in reality when namecoin changes over there will no longer be old miners and old clients?
139 2011-07-28 02:42:36 <diki> ;;bc,stats
140 2011-07-28 02:42:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 138423 | Current Difficulty: 1690906.2047244 | Next Difficulty At Block: 139103 | Next Difficulty In: 680 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1872082.84973378
141 2011-07-28 03:12:48 <SomeoneWeird> Guys, need help compiling bitcoin w/ http://davids.webmaster.com/~davids/bitcoin-4diff.txt
142 2011-07-28 03:13:00 <SomeoneWeird> get a shit load of errors in net.cpp
143 2011-07-28 03:15:55 <SomeoneWeird> anyone?
144 2011-07-28 03:39:37 <Habbie> SomeoneWeird, you're not actually telling us about your problem
145 2011-07-28 03:39:49 <SomeoneWeird> it's ok, i think i've got it Habbie
146 2011-07-28 03:39:53 <Habbie> ah
147 2011-07-28 03:39:54 <Habbie> ok good :)
148 2011-07-28 03:40:02 <SomeoneWeird> yeah, i would have posted it but noone replied lol
149 2011-07-28 03:40:14 <Habbie> that's my point
150 2011-07-28 03:40:20 <Habbie> you need to provide information right away
151 2011-07-28 03:40:26 <Habbie> otherwise, you get
152 2011-07-28 03:40:31 <Habbie> 7am: SomeoneWeird asks 'help!'
153 2011-07-28 03:40:36 <Habbie> 7:30am: Habbie says 'what's up, tell me more'
154 2011-07-28 03:40:38 <Habbie> 8am: SomeoneWeird explains
155 2011-07-28 03:40:50 <Habbie> while if you actually provide info at 7am, i may be able to solve your issue at 7:30 :)
156 2011-07-28 03:40:50 <SomeoneWeird> 0_o
157 2011-07-28 03:41:00 <SomeoneWeird> not 7am here
158 2011-07-28 03:41:01 <SomeoneWeird> :p
159 2011-07-28 03:41:10 <Habbie> it is here
160 2011-07-28 03:41:13 <Habbie> not the point ;0
161 2011-07-28 03:53:38 <Habbie> testnet getwork:     "target" : "000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004f820000000000"
162 2011-07-28 03:53:45 <Habbie> mainnet getwork:     "target" : "000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004ec09000000000000"
163 2011-07-28 03:53:53 <Habbie> i thought testnet was supposed to have higher targets
164 2011-07-28 03:54:08 <Habbie> (difficulty on testnet is 502.9, mainnet is like 1.6 million)
165 2011-07-28 03:54:12 <Habbie> what am i confused about?
166 2011-07-28 03:54:24 <forrestv> Habbie, the target there is reversed
167 2011-07-28 03:54:38 <Habbie> ohh, zeroes count from the right?
168 2011-07-28 03:54:40 <forrestv> little endian binary data
169 2011-07-28 03:54:41 <forrestv> yes
170 2011-07-28 03:54:44 <Habbie> thanks :)
171 2011-07-28 04:31:33 <josephcp> ls
172 2011-07-28 04:31:40 <josephcp> oops wrong window -_-;
173 2011-07-28 04:31:58 <IO-> hehe
174 2011-07-28 04:44:56 <SomeoneWeird> lol
175 2011-07-28 04:56:05 <sabalaba> hey does anybody here know if there's a silkroad iRC?
176 2011-07-28 04:56:30 <Habbie> sabalaba, this is the wrong channel for that question
177 2011-07-28 04:56:50 <sabalaba> Habbie, what channel would you reccomend?
178 2011-07-28 04:56:59 <sabalaba> *recommend
179 2011-07-28 04:57:01 <Habbie> #bitcoin is better - although you asked plenty of times there
180 2011-07-28 04:57:09 <Habbie> i'm going to suggest there is no silkroad irc channel
181 2011-07-28 04:57:21 <Habbie> i'm also going to suggest discussing silkroad openly, without the protection of TOR and such, is very dumb.
182 2011-07-28 04:58:03 <sabalaba> thanks for the advice
183 2011-07-28 04:58:15 <sabalaba> is there a checklist for contribution requests for bitcoin
184 2011-07-28 04:58:28 <Habbie> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
185 2011-07-28 05:01:23 <Habbie> "blocks" : 31541,
186 2011-07-28 05:01:34 <Habbie> this actually means there are 31542 blocks in my downloaded chain
187 2011-07-28 05:01:36 <Habbie> misleading ;)
188 2011-07-28 05:03:06 <josephcp> well as long as everyone's consistent it doesn't matter whether we start for 0 or 1 right? :-P
189 2011-07-28 05:03:52 <Habbie> everyone is consistent
190 2011-07-28 05:04:00 <Habbie> but calling it 'blocks' is misleading ;)
191 2011-07-28 05:04:22 <josephcp> why
192 2011-07-28 05:05:01 <Habbie> because blocks: 31541 means there are 31542 blocks
193 2011-07-28 05:05:36 <josephcp> you'd prefer it be "block number" : 31541
194 2011-07-28 05:05:37 <josephcp> ?
195 2011-07-28 05:05:47 <Habbie> not sure i would prefer. it would be more accurate
196 2011-07-28 05:05:53 <josephcp> i guess that'd make more sense, oh well
197 2011-07-28 05:05:58 <Habbie> a more concise term than 'block number' would be great
198 2011-07-28 05:06:02 <Habbie> i'm just nitpicking here, sorry
199 2011-07-28 05:06:09 <josephcp> if you change the rpc call name it'll break everything though
200 2011-07-28 05:06:11 <josephcp> too late :-P
201 2011-07-28 05:06:31 <josephcp> i mean the returned data key
202 2011-07-28 05:10:56 <Habbie> oh sure
203 2011-07-28 05:11:00 <Habbie> we'll just have to live with it ;)
204 2011-07-28 05:11:39 <der_harm> Hey guys, would you mind adding a bitcoin symbol on the front page of http://www.weusecoins.com/ ? Linking this page on facebook shows 7 diffecent icons, but no bitcoin!! And even worse: the first icon is half an apple...:-/
205 2011-07-28 05:11:55 <josephcp> der_harm: i don't think there's a canonical bitcoin symbol
206 2011-07-28 05:16:58 <der_harm> but everywhere i see this golden coin
207 2011-07-28 05:17:37 <der_harm> but anyway, maybe you agree on the importance of the layout and linking on facebook?
208 2011-07-28 05:17:51 <der_harm> same with http://bitcoin.org/
209 2011-07-28 05:38:08 <midnightmagic> ;;seen ArtForZ
210 2011-07-28 05:38:09 <gribble> ArtForZ was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 weeks, 1 day, 9 hours, 21 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <ArtForz> eternal beta. hah, satoshi is secretly a google employee!
211 2011-07-28 05:38:18 <midnightmagic> damn, 6 weeks. :-(
212 2011-07-28 05:40:44 <DD-> hes still alive ;)
213 2011-07-28 05:41:09 <DD-> _ape has him locked up in his basement
214 2011-07-28 05:50:39 <midnightmagic> now who are you then..?
215 2011-07-28 05:50:59 <midnightmagic> aand..  do you know art?
216 2011-07-28 05:56:06 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
217 2011-07-28 05:56:07 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":14.0103,"low":13.67,"avg":13.849608729,"vwap":13.807845148,"vol":20405,"last":13.73,"buy":13.73,"sell":13.73999}}
218 2011-07-28 06:18:11 <DD-> midnightmagic: im spiderman , ArtForz personal secretary
219 2011-07-28 06:18:16 <DD-> shall i pass a message on?
220 2011-07-28 06:23:20 <Blitzboom> how is 0.4 progressing?
221 2011-07-28 06:30:59 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
222 2011-07-28 06:31:01 <gribble> Current Blocks: 138450 | Current Difficulty: 1690906.2047244 | Next Difficulty At Block: 139103 | Next Difficulty In: 653 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1873419.38646292
223 2011-07-28 07:32:05 <sacarlson> looks like beertokens are moving up a little now 1 BEER = 1.010010 USD up from less than 0.99 usd
224 2011-07-28 07:39:07 <jeremias> hmm beertokens really working?
225 2011-07-28 07:41:21 <Tycale> http://bitcoin.tycale.be/ back :)
226 2011-07-28 07:42:27 <sacarlson> jeremias: not really fully up and running yet limited accounts and members at this time
227 2011-07-28 07:42:46 <sacarlson> jeremias: still working on infrastructure on the concept
228 2011-07-28 07:43:33 <jeremias> i don't get the concept of beertokens, is there some place where they are explained briefly?
229 2011-07-28 07:44:04 <jeremias> eg. i don't understand how they work so that someone can't game the system.
230 2011-07-28 07:45:14 <sacarlson> jeremias: it's still in concept stage http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9493.msg136917#msg136917
231 2011-07-28 08:35:56 <sacarlson> I'm not fully understanding how to read the diffences in the format of these targets as in hard:     "target" : "000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004ec09000000000000"   less hard: "target" : "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff0f000000"
232 2011-07-28 08:36:49 <sacarlson> or even if this is reversed indian thing that's fine too
233 2011-07-28 08:37:01 <asher^> differences in the format?
234 2011-07-28 08:38:02 <sacarlson> asher: yes as in how does that become that number "difficulty" : 0.06249911,
235 2011-07-28 08:38:57 <sacarlson> my goal is I guess to just input the difficulty in this format "difficulty" : 0.06249911,  and get eather nBits or target number
236 2011-07-28 08:39:28 <asher^> difficulty 0.06? how are you getting that?
237 2011-07-28 08:39:56 <sacarlson> asher^ yes that's the difficulty of weeds
238 2011-07-28 08:40:39 <sacarlson> asher^: that's what becomes of a network with constant 300kh/sec
239 2011-07-28 08:42:51 <sacarlson> I guess I'm not fully understanding what the "difficulty" : 0.06249911, represents to start with  maybe it was suposed to start from 1 as a reference and become biger or smaller over the life of the net?
240 2011-07-28 08:43:37 <asher^> im not sure where you got that number from, its approx 1/16
241 2011-07-28 08:44:10 <sacarlson> asher^ I got it from getinfo
242 2011-07-28 08:45:07 <sacarlson> asher^ at "blocks" : 7457,  that has had 300kh/sec from day 1
243 2011-07-28 08:46:55 <asher^> "difficulty" : 1690906.20472441,
244 2011-07-28 08:46:59 <asher^> thats what i get from getinfo
245 2011-07-28 08:47:17 <sacarlson> asher^: yes that's the bitcoin main net
246 2011-07-28 08:47:27 <sacarlson> asher^: there are many netwoks
247 2011-07-28 08:47:31 <asher^> ok
248 2011-07-28 08:47:33 <sacarlson> networks
249 2011-07-28 08:47:45 <asher^> so which of those hex numbers corresponds to your difficulty?
250 2011-07-28 08:48:08 <sacarlson> "target" : "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff0f000000"
251 2011-07-28 08:48:40 <sacarlson> from getwork  "target" : "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff0f000000"
252 2011-07-28 08:49:24 <sacarlson> but the goal is I want to start easy and change to harder after 10 or more blocks after creation of a new chain
253 2011-07-28 08:49:51 <sacarlson> with modifications to GetNextWorkRequired(const CBlockIndex* pindexLast)
254 2011-07-28 08:50:25 <sacarlson> in the setup of a new expermental merge mine chain
255 2011-07-28 08:51:45 <sacarlson> and what I have found is that a merge mine net must be at least a bit less difficult than the parent network
256 2011-07-28 08:53:10 <sacarlson> so if I want a merge mine network as secure as bitcoin I would want one that was "difficulty" : 1690906.20472441 - 10  or just a bit smaller and need to convert that to nBits
257 2011-07-28 08:57:30 <asher^> sacarlson im sorry i cant help. the formulas on the wiki dont seem to match up with these numbers
258 2011-07-28 08:58:14 <sacarlson> asher^: ya seem the numbers changes value when I did some upgrade merge at some point
259 2011-07-28 08:59:34 <diki> how does the -datadir switch work?
260 2011-07-28 08:59:45 <diki> do i specify the folder where the wallet is located?
261 2011-07-28 09:00:19 <asher^> where the config file is located
262 2011-07-28 09:00:55 <diki> wow just noticed the blockchain is almost 800mb
263 2011-07-28 09:01:06 <diki> this will be a problem in the future
264 2011-07-28 09:01:42 <asher^> wait
265 2011-07-28 09:01:45 <asher^> sacarlson...
266 2011-07-28 09:01:54 <asher^> your difficulty is certainly wrong
267 2011-07-28 09:01:58 <asher^> its impossible
268 2011-07-28 09:02:22 <sacarlson> asher^ it comes from GetDifficulty()
269 2011-07-28 09:02:41 <asher^> difficulty = maximum_target / current_target
270 2011-07-28 09:02:58 <asher^> so unless your current target is more than the max...
271 2011-07-28 09:05:21 <diki> so i did -datadir=/path to bitcoin conf folder/
272 2011-07-28 09:05:25 <diki> is that correct?
273 2011-07-28 09:05:33 <sacarlson> asher^: I don't see any maximum_target value in that function at rpc.cpp line 205
274 2011-07-28 09:05:51 <asher^> sacarlson i just got that formula from the wiki
275 2011-07-28 09:08:58 <sacarlson> asher^: well someone changed there mind what they wanted the difficulty number to be.  I don't get what it does a bunch of bit rotate
276 2011-07-28 09:12:40 <diki> well, i have a difficulty calculator made by lfm
277 2011-07-28 09:12:49 <diki> you enter the diff in either format and it displays the target
278 2011-07-28 09:12:59 <diki> as well as nbits and the decimal number
279 2011-07-28 09:13:04 <sacarlson> diki: that might work
280 2011-07-28 09:13:06 <diki> well, double
281 2011-07-28 09:13:26 <sacarlson> diki: where is it published?
282 2011-07-28 09:13:33 <diki> but trust me, 0.06 ive tried it
283 2011-07-28 09:13:35 <diki> doesnt work
284 2011-07-28 09:14:01 <diki> anything below < 1 is the same as diff being 1
285 2011-07-28 09:17:12 <sacarlson> diki: I've noted when I first start chains now with -testnet specs the difficulty starts at numbers smaller than 1 not sure why
286 2011-07-28 09:18:31 <sacarlson> diki: but as long as I can put in what I see bitcoin main net and or namecoin net values to make a new chain just a bit less difficult is all I need
287 2011-07-28 09:25:12 <knotwork> main net is 16 times as difficult as testnet that could be where the 1/16 comes from
288 2011-07-28 09:49:32 <asher^> is there an api call to get number of coins per block from bitcoind?
289 2011-07-28 09:54:49 <josephcp> asher^: use the getblockbycount patch
290 2011-07-28 09:55:21 <josephcp> and then you can add it up manually by counting the transactions
291 2011-07-28 09:56:30 <asher^> thanks
292 2011-07-28 09:56:38 <josephcp> np
293 2011-07-28 09:58:37 <Habbie> any reason there is nothing like getblock in the stock client?
294 2011-07-28 10:26:25 <diki> so how does the datadir switch work?
295 2011-07-28 10:26:27 <diki> how do i use it?
296 2011-07-28 10:26:30 <diki> on windows ofc
297 2011-07-28 10:26:41 <diki> -datadir=path for conf folder
298 2011-07-28 10:26:43 <diki> or...?
299 2011-07-28 10:26:54 <diki> path to*
300 2011-07-28 10:27:13 <asher^> yes
301 2011-07-28 10:27:23 <diki> i tried that...nothing happened
302 2011-07-28 10:27:32 <diki> bitcoin didnt start
303 2011-07-28 10:27:40 <diki> my goal is to make two instances work at the same time
304 2011-07-28 10:28:05 <diki> but with different wallets ofc
305 2011-07-28 10:28:21 <diki> i've made a copy of my conf file folder where the blockchain is
306 2011-07-28 10:28:27 <diki> and i feed datadir the path to the new folder
307 2011-07-28 10:32:12 <asher^> anyone familiar with pushpool know what upstream_result = N means? (as opposed to NULL)
308 2011-07-28 10:33:32 <diki> it means
309 2011-07-28 10:33:39 <diki> that a hash was sent to bitcoind
310 2011-07-28 10:33:42 <diki> but was rejected
311 2011-07-28 10:33:48 <diki> dont worry, it's normal
312 2011-07-28 10:34:08 <diki> NULL is when the hash was sent to pushpool i.e the pool, but was not sent to bitcoind
313 2011-07-28 10:34:26 <asher^> ah ok
314 2011-07-28 10:34:36 <asher^> what reasons are there for rejecting a share?
315 2011-07-28 10:34:46 <asher^> just stale? or others too
316 2011-07-28 10:35:41 <diki> stale, not in the worker log, h not zero
317 2011-07-28 10:35:45 <diki> duplicate
318 2011-07-28 10:36:31 <asher^> ok
319 2011-07-28 10:36:40 <asher^> thanks
320 2011-07-28 10:38:01 <diki> trying to make a pool?
321 2011-07-28 10:38:47 <diki> honestly, i also once wanted to make, i setup pushpool all fine and dandy, started writing the front end which is where i realized it wasnt as easy as i thought it would be
322 2011-07-28 10:38:54 <asher^> not trying, no :p i was just looking through the logs and wondered what the difference was. that explanation makes perfect sense though
323 2011-07-28 10:38:55 <diki> *to make a pool
324 2011-07-28 10:41:23 <diki> wow, bitcoin doesnt support multiple instances
325 2011-07-28 10:41:25 <diki> sucks...
326 2011-07-28 10:41:41 <asher^> why would you want multiple instances?
327 2011-07-28 10:41:57 <diki> just because :P
328 2011-07-28 10:44:46 <UukGoblin> asher^, because there isn't enough coin control in one instance...
329 2011-07-28 10:45:07 <UukGoblin> if you want to move your bitcoins around a bit in order to launder them, you need separate system users and separate bitcoin instances therein
330 2011-07-28 10:45:33 <diki> i just need another instance running with different wallets ofc
331 2011-07-28 10:50:19 <UukGoblin> bitcoin launderer!
332 2011-07-28 10:51:46 <diki> i just need to move around 25k of bitcoins
333 2011-07-28 10:52:29 <diki> which i got from installing a trojan on EVERY bitcoin user i could get my hands on
334 2011-07-28 10:52:32 <xelister> diki: try forklift
335 2011-07-28 10:52:33 <xelister> trololo
336 2011-07-28 10:52:34 <diki> i am rich haha
337 2011-07-28 10:52:58 <UukGoblin> 25k bitcoins doesn't make one rich, yet :-[
338 2011-07-28 10:53:12 <UukGoblin> can't even buy a proper house for $300k
339 2011-07-28 10:53:22 <diki> i think it's enough for 50-60 years for me
340 2011-07-28 10:53:48 <UukGoblin> 50-60 years of moderate-standard living... perhaps
341 2011-07-28 10:53:59 <mtrlt> and that's enough time for you to upload yourself to the internet :P
342 2011-07-28 10:54:27 <UukGoblin> mtrlt, that's difficult to say...
343 2011-07-28 10:54:33 <UukGoblin> you might need specialised hardware for that...
344 2011-07-28 10:54:34 <mtrlt> yea
345 2011-07-28 10:54:57 <UukGoblin> and to build such hardware, you might need money...
346 2011-07-28 10:55:06 <UukGoblin> also a question: when do you cash out your 25k btc
347 2011-07-28 10:55:11 <mtrlt> well with 25kBTC , you can make a lot more :P
348 2011-07-28 10:55:14 <diki> like right now
349 2011-07-28 10:55:19 <UukGoblin> if you do it now, you risk real-currency inflation making you poor
350 2011-07-28 10:55:32 <UukGoblin> if you wait, you risk bitcoin being made illegal / losing popularity
351 2011-07-28 10:55:54 <phedny> so.. cash out partly
352 2011-07-28 10:55:55 <mtrlt> solution: do it little by little
353 2011-07-28 10:55:58 <mtrlt> starting from now
354 2011-07-28 10:56:04 <xelister> UukGoblin: if they delegalize btc
355 2011-07-28 10:56:15 <xelister> UukGoblin: they can suck btc-over-freenet's balls =) #btcfn
356 2011-07-28 10:56:25 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
357 2011-07-28 10:56:33 <asher^> anyone know why bitcoind is using fees for transactions when getinfo shows that its set to 0?
358 2011-07-28 10:56:42 <UukGoblin> xelister, yeah, where would you exchange your BOFs to $ though?
359 2011-07-28 10:57:08 <xelister> UukGoblin: at exchange
360 2011-07-28 10:57:14 <UukGoblin> xelister, which is illegal?
361 2011-07-28 10:57:19 <xelister> UukGoblin: or for maximum security, just keep converting to goods
362 2011-07-28 10:57:26 <phedny> UukGoblin: maybe in US.. but TH is in Chili ;)
363 2011-07-28 10:57:30 <UukGoblin> via illegal trading?
364 2011-07-28 10:57:39 <phedny> UukGoblin: and B7 is in Bulgary
365 2011-07-28 10:57:39 <xelister> UukGoblin: drugs are illegal.  OH NO NOWHERE CAN I GET DRUGS!!!1   trololololooooo
366 2011-07-28 10:58:13 <xelister> I can not get illegal drugs and hookers in prison oh no... wait... =)
367 2011-07-28 10:58:34 <diki> xelister:it's OH NOEZ actually
368 2011-07-28 10:58:50 <UukGoblin> yeah it's spelled with a EZ
369 2011-07-28 10:59:34 <xelister> :o
370 2011-07-28 11:24:36 <asher^> is it normal behaviour for bitcoind to send with transaction fees even if you have set paytxfee to 0?
371 2011-07-28 11:25:11 <UukGoblin> asher^, I know it was in ~0.3.21, unsure whether recent fixes changed it
372 2011-07-28 11:25:25 <asher^> running .23 at the moment
373 2011-07-28 11:27:58 <asher^> actually sorry im runnin .24 :-|
374 2011-07-28 11:29:06 <BlueMatt> yes, that is how it works
375 2011-07-28 11:29:48 <BlueMatt> only if you make a tx from a bunch of small inputs, recent inputs, or a massive number of inputs/outputs though
376 2011-07-28 11:29:55 <asher^> BlueMatt can you explain a bit more? does it default to some minimum value or something like that?
377 2011-07-28 11:30:17 <BlueMatt> see ,,(bc,wiki Transaction Fees)
378 2011-07-28 11:30:18 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees | 5 days ago ... Transaction fees may be included with any transfer of bitcoins from one address to another. At the moment, many transactions are typically ...
379 2011-07-28 11:32:05 <asher^> thanks
380 2011-07-28 11:34:06 <asher^> so if i set to 0.00 it will default to the minimum?
381 2011-07-28 11:34:45 <BlueMatt> yes, and that minimum is typically 0.00, unless you are doing something crazy
382 2011-07-28 11:34:53 <BlueMatt> s/typically/almost always
383 2011-07-28 11:35:00 <asher^> ok
384 2011-07-28 11:35:11 <asher^> i just sent a small test transaction and it charged 0.0195
385 2011-07-28 11:35:37 <BlueMatt> thats by no means a small transaction then
386 2011-07-28 11:35:42 <BlueMatt> in fact, that is a huge transaction
387 2011-07-28 11:35:48 <diki> why are the more recent blocks downloaded much slower?
388 2011-07-28 11:36:00 <asher^> what determins transaction size?
389 2011-07-28 11:36:03 <diki> you guys do know that with my current connection i can download a few gigs of data for just a few minuites
390 2011-07-28 11:36:06 <diki> *minutes
391 2011-07-28 11:36:11 <BlueMatt> asher^: number of inputs
392 2011-07-28 11:36:17 <diki> bitcoin < a few gigs
393 2011-07-28 11:36:38 <b4epoche_> and how fast can the other nodes upload?
394 2011-07-28 11:37:04 <diki> then they better pay for better internet
395 2011-07-28 11:37:05 <asher^> BlueMatt on blockexplorer there is only one input listed... or do i have a misunderstanding of how that works?
396 2011-07-28 11:37:07 <diki> like i do
397 2011-07-28 11:37:28 <b4epoche_> maybe you could subsidize it
398 2011-07-28 11:37:32 <BlueMatt> asher^: whats the txid?
399 2011-07-28 11:37:37 <asher^> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f286fdd7f4756e650515a886ba8836e0079f0d1a60556376c14effad3d1e30d0
400 2011-07-28 11:37:56 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin client wont force that fee
401 2011-07-28 11:38:10 <BlueMatt> your client is misconfigured or something
402 2011-07-28 11:38:52 <b4epoche_> asher^:  fwiw, that is a huge fee
403 2011-07-28 11:39:06 <diki> b4epoche:they got bitcoins they better do it themselves
404 2011-07-28 11:39:19 <asher^> BlueMatt:  "paytxfee" : 0.00000000,
405 2011-07-28 11:39:40 <b4epoche_> maybe they'd rather spend their money on other stuff instead of helping you
406 2011-07-28 11:39:58 <diki> this is for them to help themselves
407 2011-07-28 11:40:15 <diki> if in the future the blockchain is > 5gbs...
408 2011-07-28 11:40:20 <diki> i dont see them there anytime soon
409 2011-07-28 11:40:38 <BlueMatt> asher^: I dont know what to say, there is no logic in the bitcoin client that would ever force a fee > 0.01 unless it is of massive size (which yours clearly isnt), and at that point it will probably just hit the size limit
410 2011-07-28 11:40:41 <b4epoche_> 5 gbs?
411 2011-07-28 11:40:46 <b4epoche_> 5 GB?
412 2011-07-28 11:40:54 <asher^> :-|
413 2011-07-28 11:41:03 <asher^> is this one typical? http://blockexplorer.com/tx/329ef8881c42b01a92f6dc6c9333eda98081ff298e6f8b98a180264a7d662c6e
414 2011-07-28 11:41:03 <diki> erm, yeah typo
415 2011-07-28 11:41:09 <diki> 5GiB
416 2011-07-28 11:41:29 <BlueMatt> asher^: it used to be in <=0.3.22
417 2011-07-28 11:42:55 <asher^> ok
418 2011-07-28 11:49:33 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
419 2011-07-28 11:49:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":14,"low":13.56,"avg":13.793553144,"vwap":13.772416267,"vol":23922,"last":13.59,"buy":13.59001,"sell":13.64456}}
420 2011-07-28 11:51:20 <gmaxwell> 0.0695 - 0.05 output = 0.0195 - 0.01 fee (older client?) = 0.0095  which is less than 0.01 change, considered unspendable and converted into a fee.
421 2011-07-28 11:53:51 <BlueMatt> he said he was using 0.3.24
422 2011-07-28 11:53:55 <gmaxwell> So that doesn't sound surprising to me at all. That whole dust elimination logic should be improved by adding inputs when there is room, which would also help sweep inputs out of the wallet.
423 2011-07-28 11:54:07 <BlueMatt> if he wasnt, the yea 0.01 fee + lower then 0.01 left so it gets added to fee
424 2011-07-28 11:54:13 <gmaxwell> oh well, I don't see how this would happen with 0.3.24  hm
425 2011-07-28 11:54:37 <gmaxwell> bcecause 0.019 > 0.01
426 2011-07-28 11:54:52 <asher^> ive got it worked out, thanks guys :-| the version is not the latest like i had been told
427 2011-07-28 11:54:55 <asher^> we are fixing now
428 2011-07-28 11:58:38 <he1kki> Has anyone tried to install bitcoin-qt (https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin-qt) to N900? ATM I'm installing Qt SDK and hoping that it just works and it knows how to compile it to N900...
429 2011-07-28 12:06:39 <InabaEMC> So I was reading over this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=724.20 but I don't seem to see the getblockbyhash patch in the .24 source. ?
430 2011-07-28 12:07:08 <BlueMatt> its not
431 2011-07-28 12:07:41 <InabaEMC> What happened in that regards?
432 2011-07-28 12:08:02 <BlueMatt> its not necessary for 99.999% of users, so it isnt gonna get merged (right now)
433 2011-07-28 12:08:21 <InabaEMC> Ah got it
434 2011-07-28 12:09:00 <InabaEMC> Is there a patch with that somewhere still?
435 2011-07-28 12:09:27 <BlueMatt> not sure if jgarzik maintains it, but the original patch might very well still apply cleanly
436 2011-07-28 12:12:49 <InabaEMC> Not in his repository rats
437 2011-07-28 12:14:20 <InabaEMC> Found it, he has it stuffed in a different branch
438 2011-07-28 12:14:47 <sacarlson> diki: did you ever get your multi instance working,  I have up to 5 different nets running with bitcoind in multicoin so I know it works
439 2011-07-28 12:20:52 <diki> on windows
440 2011-07-28 12:20:54 <diki> ?
441 2011-07-28 12:21:09 <sacarlson> diki: no I only run linux
442 2011-07-28 12:21:24 <BlueMatt> lol, people still run windows?
443 2011-07-28 12:21:32 <diki> it's the dominating os
444 2011-07-28 12:21:38 <diki> Windows > Mac > Linux
445 2011-07-28 12:21:44 <BlueMatt> hehe, ok then
446 2011-07-28 12:21:47 <diki> it allows gaming
447 2011-07-28 12:21:50 <diki> dx9,dx11
448 2011-07-28 12:22:03 <diki> has better gui
449 2011-07-28 12:22:06 <NorthLite> there some nice games for linux too
450 2011-07-28 12:22:06 <sacarlson> diki: you can run linux in windows with virtualbox
451 2011-07-28 12:22:07 <diki> better effects
452 2011-07-28 12:22:15 <diki> sacarlson:i am doing that atm
453 2011-07-28 12:22:20 <diki> my vm with bitcoin in it
454 2011-07-28 12:22:34 <BlueMatt> thats literally the only thing windows is good for - gaming, but now with direct vm io, you can game in a windows vm in linux with no perf. hit, so why you would run windows, I just dont get
455 2011-07-28 12:22:34 <diki> NorthLite:i dont remeber crysis 2 being in the list
456 2011-07-28 12:22:55 <diki> It's just better
457 2011-07-28 12:22:59 <diki> linux is good only for coders
458 2011-07-28 12:23:00 <sacarlson> diki: that's all you need for bitcoind it should run fine in virtualbox
459 2011-07-28 12:23:13 <diki> it's not ready at all for the mainstream
460 2011-07-28 12:23:29 <diki> who in the right mind would want to type commands in a terminal to get what he wants?
461 2011-07-28 12:23:44 <NorthLite> diki: when it will be used bu the mainstream it will probably degrade
462 2011-07-28 12:23:45 <mtrlt> who wants to navigate endless wizards? :P
463 2011-07-28 12:23:48 <sacarlson> diki: in linux?  it's 99% gui
464 2011-07-28 12:23:56 <BlueMatt> diki: that was true of linux 20 years ago, not any more
465 2011-07-28 12:23:56 <diki> nah
466 2011-07-28 12:23:59 <diki> not all the time
467 2011-07-28 12:24:00 <mtrlt> linux? 99% gui? :P
468 2011-07-28 12:24:16 <mtrlt> sacarlson: which distro are you talking about
469 2011-07-28 12:24:25 <diki> it's just that for now windows has the better features minus the advanced security
470 2011-07-28 12:24:38 <sacarlson> mtrlt: for none geeks you can run gui 100%  I still use cli
471 2011-07-28 12:24:49 <NorthLite> linux is more eyecandy than windows
472 2011-07-28 12:24:56 <NorthLite> enlightenment for example
473 2011-07-28 12:24:59 <diki> candy-ass?
474 2011-07-28 12:25:04 <sacarlson> mtrlt: you ever try qtcreator?
475 2011-07-28 12:25:23 <BlueMatt> there are 20,000 linux guis
476 2011-07-28 12:25:24 <mtrlt> nope
477 2011-07-28 12:25:33 <BlueMatt> and probably 20 of them are better than windows for 90% of people
478 2011-07-28 12:25:40 <diki> not to mention to instal the ati drivers you need to do a ton of shit
479 2011-07-28 12:25:40 <mtrlt> i don't do gui programming, it sux. qtcreator probably doesn't suck, though :P
480 2011-07-28 12:25:44 <diki> that need the command line
481 2011-07-28 12:25:45 <sacarlson> mtrlt: well maybe that's why your still stuck in cli
482 2011-07-28 12:25:46 <NorthLite> BlueMatt: exactly
483 2011-07-28 12:25:49 <diki> in windows it's just a few clicks away
484 2011-07-28 12:25:53 <BlueMatt> nope, linux drivers work great for the past many years
485 2011-07-28 12:25:58 <BlueMatt> better driver support than windows even
486 2011-07-28 12:26:03 <diki> read again matt
487 2011-07-28 12:26:05 <diki> i didnt say that
488 2011-07-28 12:26:11 <diki> i said, you dont need a terminal to installl it
489 2011-07-28 12:26:19 <BlueMatt> neither do I
490 2011-07-28 12:26:25 <BlueMatt> ive never used terminal to install a driver
491 2011-07-28 12:26:28 <BlueMatt> I plug it in, it works
492 2011-07-28 12:26:29 <diki> you dont have to do tar -xwhatever
493 2011-07-28 12:26:33 <BlueMatt> in fact Ive never installed a driver
494 2011-07-28 12:26:34 <NorthLite> i like installing from terminal
495 2011-07-28 12:26:38 <BlueMatt> on windows, I have 20,000 times
496 2011-07-28 12:26:43 <NorthLite> in cli you can do things much faster
497 2011-07-28 12:26:51 <diki> in linux, most of the hardware potential is not used
498 2011-07-28 12:26:54 <mtrlt> NorthLite: if you remember the commands off the top of yer head
499 2011-07-28 12:26:56 <BlueMatt> linux, the only driver Ive ever installed is nvidia/amd drivers
500 2011-07-28 12:27:01 <BlueMatt> and those I install via gui
501 2011-07-28 12:27:07 <mtrlt> NorthLite: if not, it's infinite google+man :P
502 2011-07-28 12:27:09 <BlueMatt> in linux, hardware usage is 100x better than windows
503 2011-07-28 12:27:11 <sacarlson> NorthLite: that's true no waste in eye candy
504 2011-07-28 12:27:19 <NorthLite> mtrlt: :)
505 2011-07-28 12:27:21 <diki> not to mention the fonts suck
506 2011-07-28 12:27:22 <BlueMatt> can you do aes drive encryption with intel's aes instructions in windows? no
507 2011-07-28 12:27:35 <diki> the screen space is much smaller even at 1080p
508 2011-07-28 12:27:38 <BlueMatt> fonts suck? they are the same damn fonts if you want
509 2011-07-28 12:27:47 <BlueMatt> the screen space is better than windows 7
510 2011-07-28 12:27:47 <diki> bluematt:they look different
511 2011-07-28 12:27:54 <BlueMatt> ok, so install the windows fonts
512 2011-07-28 12:27:55 <BlueMatt> its not hard
513 2011-07-28 12:27:55 <diki> proof?
514 2011-07-28 12:27:56 <sacarlson> diki: microsoft opened there fonts most people use there fonts or have them
515 2011-07-28 12:28:15 <diki> it's piss easy to tell that the screen space is much smaller
516 2011-07-28 12:28:33 <BlueMatt> diki: my os uses 24-pixel bar of my screen and I get the rest, with windows 7 its a 64-pixel bar
517 2011-07-28 12:28:42 <BlueMatt> so...I get more screen space with linux
518 2011-07-28 12:28:55 <diki> the windows of programs are also twice as big
519 2011-07-28 12:29:02 <BlueMatt> they are identical
520 2011-07-28 12:29:06 <BlueMatt> you can resize them you know
521 2011-07-28 12:29:08 <mtrlt> when i've used linux, one of the bigger problem has been that it doesn't indicate whether it's doing anything
522 2011-07-28 12:29:09 <diki> no they're not
523 2011-07-28 12:29:14 <diki> lol
524 2011-07-28 12:29:15 <diki> haha
525 2011-07-28 12:29:19 <mtrlt> like when i start a program, nothing happens
526 2011-07-28 12:29:28 <BlueMatt> diki: you clearly dont know anything about linux
527 2011-07-28 12:29:28 <diki> yeah, i start bitcoin and dont know if it is actually running
528 2011-07-28 12:29:30 <mtrlt> and then after half a minute, suddenly a window
529 2011-07-28 12:29:36 <diki> bluematt:dont need to either
530 2011-07-28 12:29:42 <diki> mtrlt:i feel ya
531 2011-07-28 12:29:57 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: yea, that is sort of true, though modern distros do spin the mouse to indicate loading of a program
532 2011-07-28 12:30:20 <sacarlson> mtrlt: every program is different. most come up faster on my 4 year old linux than on my next door nabors 1.5 year old running win7
533 2011-07-28 12:30:37 <BlueMatt> diki: well considering everything you've said about linux so far is easily provable to be false, Id say you dont know the first thing about linux
534 2011-07-28 12:30:43 <mtrlt> but at least widnows tells me it's doing something
535 2011-07-28 12:30:47 <sacarlson> mtrlt: so I have slower hardware that runs faster
536 2011-07-28 12:30:49 <BlueMatt> in fact, considering 90% of the stuff you say about computers is flat out wrong...
537 2011-07-28 12:30:49 <diki> how can it be proved false?
538 2011-07-28 12:30:59 <diki> the linux fanboy obviously...never used windows either
539 2011-07-28 12:31:05 <diki> which part matt?
540 2011-07-28 12:31:08 <diki> which part is wrong?
541 2011-07-28 12:31:09 <BlueMatt> I dual boot windows and load it in vms all the time
542 2011-07-28 12:31:27 <BlueMatt> I never said it doesnt have uses, I said its good for gaming (until I get my socket-2011 board :)
543 2011-07-28 12:31:27 <diki> then just stay with window slol
544 2011-07-28 12:31:42 <BlueMatt> but it sucks for general useage compared to windows
545 2011-07-28 12:31:50 <diki> yeah...i would switch to intel if prices were waaay lower
546 2011-07-28 12:32:16 <mtrlt> also, the lack of a good IDE for coding is kinda meh :p
547 2011-07-28 12:32:18 <mtrlt> for linux.
548 2011-07-28 12:32:22 <mtrlt> and no, vim is not an ide
549 2011-07-28 12:32:34 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: what ide do you use on windows?
550 2011-07-28 12:32:38 <mtrlt> visual studio
551 2011-07-28 12:32:40 <diki> neither is notepad++ but it it's damn good
552 2011-07-28 12:32:40 <mtrlt> it's clunky, yes
553 2011-07-28 12:32:43 <diki> for windows ofc
554 2011-07-28 12:32:56 <DD-> rofl
555 2011-07-28 12:33:03 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: well if you think visual studio is good, then there are plenty that are pretty similar for linux
556 2011-07-28 12:33:03 <sacarlson> mtrlt: qtcreator is an IDE isn't it?
557 2011-07-28 12:33:10 <BlueMatt> netbeans qtcreator, etc
558 2011-07-28 12:33:19 <mtrlt> well i gotta try it then :P
559 2011-07-28 12:33:20 <edcba> pretty similar ?
560 2011-07-28 12:33:22 <senseles> why would anyone want to use linux for a desktop
561 2011-07-28 12:33:30 <diki> ah, a comrade
562 2011-07-28 12:33:37 <BlueMatt> edcba: in terms of overall useability
563 2011-07-28 12:33:40 <senseles> on the flip side
564 2011-07-28 12:33:46 <senseles> why would anyone want to use windows for a server
565 2011-07-28 12:33:51 <mtrlt> i'd also like to be able to make plugins easily
566 2011-07-28 12:33:52 <mtrlt> to the ide
567 2011-07-28 12:33:56 <edcba> can you code in c# with them ? :)
568 2011-07-28 12:33:57 <BlueMatt> why would anyone want to use windows for a 24/7 desktop, I dont know
569 2011-07-28 12:34:06 <MaggyO> lawl
570 2011-07-28 12:34:10 <sacarlson> mtrlt: you people are living as if you haven't seen linux for 13 years, it gets better every day
571 2011-07-28 12:34:11 <mtrlt> like one keyboard shortcut and it asks me a class name and adds it to the project
572 2011-07-28 12:34:22 <mtrlt> sacarlson: true, i haven't used linux in a while
573 2011-07-28 12:34:24 <BlueMatt> mac, I can understand, linux I use, windows...god Ill never go back there
574 2011-07-28 12:34:29 <mtrlt> sacarlson: i think the last time was in 2007 or 2008 tho :p
575 2011-07-28 12:34:46 <senseles> most applications are widely available for windows desktop, my screen is pretty which make coding on my ultraedit32 text editor ..
576 2011-07-28 12:34:49 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: I probably wouldnt have used linux full-time then either
577 2011-07-28 12:34:58 <senseles> plugging linux into a 32" sony bravia 1080p would be a crime
578 2011-07-28 12:35:14 <BlueMatt> why?
579 2011-07-28 12:35:25 <BlueMatt> the only thing I use windows for these days is gaming
580 2011-07-28 12:35:31 <senseles> because it would look kind of like OSX
581 2011-07-28 12:35:34 <diki> not to mention dxva(directx video acceleration) probabloy works only on windows
582 2011-07-28 12:35:48 <BlueMatt> diki: you realize that isnt an argument
583 2011-07-28 12:35:57 <BlueMatt> some crappy tech that is on windows isnt an argument for windows
584 2011-07-28 12:36:04 <diki> why is it not?
585 2011-07-28 12:36:10 <senseles> gaming is a pretty big reason, but there are still many programs not available on linux
586 2011-07-28 12:36:13 <diki> it's a valuable feature for single core processor wanting to watch 1080p
587 2011-07-28 12:36:25 <BlueMatt> you get similar stuff on linux
588 2011-07-28 12:36:29 <BlueMatt> better, actually, but whatever
589 2011-07-28 12:36:30 <diki> which is?
590 2011-07-28 12:36:38 <DD-> why u even bother BlueMatt
591 2011-07-28 12:36:43 <mtrlt> BlueMatt: you're still carrying on a conversation with diki. just saying. :P
592 2011-07-28 12:36:45 <senseles> i dont know ive been using linux for like 20 years, ive tried using it at home as a desktop before
593 2011-07-28 12:36:53 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: damn it
594 2011-07-28 12:37:00 <DD-> its obvious these clowns havent touched linux, or atleast not in the last 5 yrs
595 2011-07-28 12:37:02 <senseles> it always ends up that i have to spend a stupid amount of time getting something working which should work just with a double click
596 2011-07-28 12:37:48 <senseles> DD-: i've got something like 17 linux boxes online right now
597 2011-07-28 12:37:49 <diki> bluematt:you just cant accept that windows will always > linux even if it's 10 years from now
598 2011-07-28 12:37:55 <senseles> all at console like they should be
599 2011-07-28 12:37:57 <diki> i care not about the advanced security linux has
600 2011-07-28 12:38:01 <sacarlson> senseles: my secrete to linux is don't upgrade till you need to
601 2011-07-28 12:38:05 <mtrlt> BlueMatt, sacarlson: what distros do you use?
602 2011-07-28 12:38:09 <diki> it asks for a pass like 99 percent of the time
603 2011-07-28 12:38:15 <sacarlson> mtrlt: I use ubuntu 10.04
604 2011-07-28 12:38:25 <mtrlt> diki: yea that sux
605 2011-07-28 12:38:26 <BlueMatt> diki: you seriously have never touched linux have you?
606 2011-07-28 12:38:35 <DD-> congratulations senseles
607 2011-07-28 12:38:35 <diki> stop denying it bluematt
608 2011-07-28 12:38:44 <senseles> thanks :D
609 2011-07-28 12:38:48 <BlueMatt> diki: make an argument I cant refute in one sentence
610 2011-07-28 12:38:48 <senseles> do i win a prize?
611 2011-07-28 12:38:52 <diki> increasing swap on linux is too hard
612 2011-07-28 12:38:56 <DD-> and imma stay out of this pointless discussion from now on ^_^
613 2011-07-28 12:38:58 <diki> doing it on windows is a few clicks away
614 2011-07-28 12:39:16 <DD-> tho what diki just said is, well
615 2011-07-28 12:39:17 <DD-> funny?
616 2011-07-28 12:39:18 <senseles> increasing swap on linux is 3 text commands
617 2011-07-28 12:39:21 <mtrlt> windows swap always fragments if you don't make a dedicated partition
618 2011-07-28 12:39:29 <diki> text commands...
619 2011-07-28 12:39:30 <mtrlt> and boom, then you get the same problem
620 2011-07-28 12:39:32 <diki> i dont like to write stuff
621 2011-07-28 12:39:45 <BlueMatt> windows cant use swap to save its life
622 2011-07-28 12:39:46 <diki> in fact just firing up a python program requires me to type
623 2011-07-28 12:39:59 <BlueMatt> so terribly implemented
624 2011-07-28 12:40:01 <diki> let alone a miner with a lot of arguments
625 2011-07-28 12:40:03 <sacarlson> senseles: you can do it in the nice gui,  but it's almost never needed since the auto setup does it correct the first time
626 2011-07-28 12:40:24 <nanotube> now we know who the target audience for tablets is - people like diki who don't like typing.
627 2011-07-28 12:40:26 <BlueMatt> actually, palmipset, or whatever its called can do it well in a nice gui
628 2011-07-28 12:40:33 <BlueMatt> "Disk Utility" on ubuntu
629 2011-07-28 12:40:37 <b4epoche_> OSX rulez!!!!
630 2011-07-28 12:40:42 <nanotube> i always wondered what you'd do on a computer without a keyboard :)
631 2011-07-28 12:40:52 <mtrlt> lol
632 2011-07-28 12:40:59 <diki> if i could remove the keyboard and just pass on brain waves....
633 2011-07-28 12:41:02 <diki> it'd make my life easier
634 2011-07-28 12:41:12 <mtrlt> my n810 ("nokia internet tablet") does have a keyboard, tho :-P
635 2011-07-28 12:41:40 <senseles> ill tell you one thing
636 2011-07-28 12:41:47 <senseles> bitcoin is easier to get running on windows than linux
637 2011-07-28 12:41:52 <b4epoche_> I'd like hardware/OS that could track my (eye) focus and change keyboard to eye focus
638 2011-07-28 12:41:52 <mtrlt> and hmm. the N810 _is_ a place i've used linux in for the last 3 years :P
639 2011-07-28 12:41:56 <diki> but bitcoin is still slow
640 2011-07-28 12:41:59 <diki> and i blame the coders
641 2011-07-28 12:41:59 <mtrlt> not daily but almost
642 2011-07-28 12:42:04 <senseles> lol
643 2011-07-28 12:42:21 <diki> my old rig boots up faster
644 2011-07-28 12:42:22 <nanotube> senseles: you mean, double-clicking on the bitcoin executable is easier on windows? why, because you don't have a mouse on linux and have to type ./bitcoin ? :)
645 2011-07-28 12:42:38 <senseles> nanotube: because i dont have to spend 24 hours trying to get it to compile under centos
646 2011-07-28 12:42:50 <BlueMatt> solution: dont use centos
647 2011-07-28 12:42:51 <nanotube> senseles: well, your own fault for choosing centos :)
648 2011-07-28 12:43:09 <nanotube> it's got 5 year old packages of everything
649 2011-07-28 12:43:16 <senseles> works well
650 2011-07-28 12:43:33 <senseles> the only hack i have to worry about is ssh brute force
651 2011-07-28 12:43:45 <BlueMatt> solution: get a stronger password
652 2011-07-28 12:43:49 <senseles> and, if the coders would compile on older versions of glibc, etc which would still work just fine
653 2011-07-28 12:43:57 <senseles> bluematt: or just firewall the box and change ssh port
654 2011-07-28 12:43:58 <BlueMatt> or, even better, use key auth instead of password
655 2011-07-28 12:44:04 <gmaxwell> senseles: how long did it take you to compile it on windows?
656 2011-07-28 12:44:10 <senseles> bluematt: i was not saying it was a problem just that it was my only one
657 2011-07-28 12:44:15 <mtrlt> compiling anything under windows is a major PITA :P
658 2011-07-28 12:44:36 <BlueMatt> oh god, I feel sorry for any people trying to code on windows
659 2011-07-28 12:44:38 <senseles> gmaxwell: i didn't because i don't have to worry about compatibility issues between versions of windows so i could use the standard client
660 2011-07-28 12:44:44 <mtrlt> it's not the coding that sucks
661 2011-07-28 12:44:46 <MaggyO> haha BlueMatt
662 2011-07-28 12:44:47 <BlueMatt> I mean you wonder why so many windows applications suck soooo bad
663 2011-07-28 12:44:50 <MaggyO> Windows has the best ide
664 2011-07-28 12:44:50 <mtrlt> but if you've gotta compile something someone else did