1 2011-08-02 00:01:50 <accel> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2835188 <-- anyone have an indepth article of what happened here with mybitcoin.com ?
  2 2011-08-02 00:14:27 <lfm> accel: afaik no one has been able to find out more than the fact they are down
  3 2011-08-02 00:14:56 <kish`> bitcoind freezes
  4 2011-08-02 00:15:10 <kish`> doesn't respond to ctrl-c or killall bitcoind
  5 2011-08-02 00:15:17 <kish`> i have to sig 9 it
  6 2011-08-02 00:15:46 <lfm> mswin or linux (or osx)? version?
  7 2011-08-02 00:15:52 <kish`> linux
  8 2011-08-02 00:16:17 <lfm> 0.3.24?
  9 2011-08-02 00:16:34 <lfm> or current git or?
 10 2011-08-02 00:16:36 <kish`> whatever yesterdays git clone
 11 2011-08-02 00:16:38 <kish`> was
 12 2011-08-02 00:16:54 <lfm> facinating
 13 2011-08-02 00:17:06 <jrmithdobbs> kish`: did you try bitcoind stop; and then waiting?
 14 2011-08-02 00:17:09 <jrmithdobbs> it should exit eventually.
 15 2011-08-02 00:17:17 <jrmithdobbs> it can take a while
 16 2011-08-02 00:17:21 <kish`> why would it freeze
 17 2011-08-02 00:17:37 <jrmithdobbs> 'freeze' is meaningless
 18 2011-08-02 00:17:43 <lfm> it can take a while to close all the databases
 19 2011-08-02 00:17:46 <jrmithdobbs> what is debug.log saying while it's doing that
 20 2011-08-02 00:19:06 <kish`> i dont know. let me check it
 21 2011-08-02 00:21:21 <kish`> no idea
 22 2011-08-02 00:21:30 <kish`> i see nothing incriminating in debug.log
 23 2011-08-02 00:22:04 <jrmithdobbs> what did it say right before it stopped updating?
 24 2011-08-02 00:22:12 <kish`> nothing
 25 2011-08-02 00:22:25 <jrmithdobbs> debug.log is completely empty?
 26 2011-08-02 00:22:36 <kish`> no, it's 2.6 MB
 27 2011-08-02 00:22:46 <jrmithdobbs> so what does it say at the end?
 28 2011-08-02 00:22:49 <kish`> here's what it said last: received block 0000000000000582e269
 29 2011-08-02 00:24:02 <kish`> i'll give it another go at updating those blocks
 30 2011-08-02 00:54:26 <upb> 02 04:44 < MagicalTux> we know too much about the market to be able to trade in a fair way
 31 2011-08-02 00:54:29 <upb> interesting clai
 32 2011-08-02 00:54:31 <upb> m
 33 2011-08-02 00:56:50 <upb> 6177,BotBot,jed@mtgox.com,$1$Xqluv5Eq$nkN99S/5DRqbNqUii3oEF1
 34 2011-08-02 00:56:53 <upb> what is this then
 35 2011-08-02 00:56:59 <upb> a trading bot ?:P
 36 2011-08-02 00:57:06 <upb> run by a person that had access to db
 37 2011-08-02 00:57:08 <upb> weird
 38 2011-08-02 00:57:39 <JFK911> sinister
 39 2011-08-02 00:58:12 <cjdelisle> I dount that kind of "once a week audit" type access is enough, more like seeing every deposit of $ and btc coming in the door and knowing what's about to happen...
 40 2011-08-02 00:58:16 <kartmetal> could be a test account used for QA or whatever.
 41 2011-08-02 00:58:25 <JFK911> since mtgox didnt verify emails, i should have signed up with "hnic@whitehouse.gov"
 42 2011-08-02 00:58:44 <JFK911> no doubt people would be citing it as some conspiracy proof
 43 2011-08-02 00:58:51 <JFK911> too bad i didnt throw you that bone, eh upb?
 44 2011-08-02 00:59:12 <cjdelisle> bbernanki@federalreserve.gov :P
 45 2011-08-02 00:59:35 <JFK911> in other news im going to talk about bitcoins on coast to coast am
 46 2011-08-02 00:59:52 <cjdelisle> cool
 47 2011-08-02 01:00:13 <temporalcause> oh what night?
 48 2011-08-02 01:00:54 <JFK911> it will be scheduled after my easy bitcoin buying service goes live
 49 2011-08-02 01:01:51 <JFK911> they think its a great idea, all their sponsors pushing the "buy gold" has resulted in monotony
 50 2011-08-02 01:02:24 <cjdelisle> it would make an interesting show to compear gold with btc
 51 2011-08-02 01:02:29 <cjdelisle> *compare
 52 2011-08-02 01:14:02 <nanotube> JFK911: how easy?
 53 2011-08-02 01:14:36 <JFK911> send checks get BTC
 54 2011-08-02 01:16:40 <nanotube> guess that's pretty easy. :) not necessarily easier than dwolla, but easy enough. :)
 55 2011-08-02 01:17:00 <nanotube> (not that i'm a fan of dwolla due to the chargebacks... but if mtgox accepts them, not my problem heh)
 56 2011-08-02 01:20:17 <temporalcause> idk why mtgox doesn't just take credit cards and e-checks like any of a multitude of e-commerce sites..
 57 2011-08-02 01:21:11 <cjdelisle> chargeback hell
 58 2011-08-02 01:21:56 <luke-jr> temporalcause: because credit cards and e-checks aren't real
 59 2011-08-02 01:22:10 <temporalcause> neither are bitcoins lol
 60 2011-08-02 01:22:31 <temporalcause> and if anything bounces they can just freeze the account until it's paid back with charges, etc...
 61 2011-08-02 01:23:37 <temporalcause> just add an appropriate transaction fee to pay the credit card fees and such...
 62 2011-08-02 01:24:38 <lfm> Too many fee invite competition
 63 2011-08-02 01:25:06 <luke-jr> temporalcause: bitcoins are real
 64 2011-08-02 01:25:11 <temporalcause> mtgox needs competition
 65 2011-08-02 01:25:23 <cjdelisle> freeze the account o_O
 66 2011-08-02 01:25:25 <lfm> mtgox might disagree
 67 2011-08-02 01:25:35 <luke-jr> temporalcause: let's see& I buy $500 worth of bitcoins on MtGox using my credit card. I withdraw those, and tell my CC company my card was stolen
 68 2011-08-02 01:25:37 <luke-jr> woops
 69 2011-08-02 01:25:59 <temporalcause> hmm i guess
 70 2011-08-02 01:26:04 <cjdelisle> Yup, wire transfers can be reversed for 60 days.
 71 2011-08-02 01:26:07 <luke-jr> lfm: nah, competition is good, and MtGox has plenty
 72 2011-08-02 01:26:20 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: MtGox can refuse a wire chargeback :P
 73 2011-08-02 01:26:31 <lfm> put a 90 day hold on credit card $
 74 2011-08-02 01:26:46 <cjdelisle> that's like forevah
 75 2011-08-02 01:26:48 <luke-jr> lfm: it'd have to be 6 months
 76 2011-08-02 01:27:01 <lfm> ok 6 month
 77 2011-08-02 01:27:10 <luke-jr> in-person cash is faster
 78 2011-08-02 01:27:27 <cjdelisle> lol swimming to japan with the cash in your pocket is faster
 79 2011-08-02 01:37:21 <drgr33n> Hey guys just a quick question. Using the latest version of the bitcoin software if I symlink a wallet to the .bitcoin directory the client removes it ?
 80 2011-08-02 01:37:32 <drgr33n> I'm sure this didn't happen before ?
 81 2011-08-02 01:38:23 <iddo> removes it? what do you mean?
 82 2011-08-02 01:39:03 <drgr33n> It rewrites with a new wallet
 83 2011-08-02 01:39:25 <drgr33n> if I place a dummy file there it works as anticipated
 84 2011-08-02 01:40:36 <drgr33n> So basically I setup some encrypted file space, copy the wallet across symlink it back and the bitcoin client disregards the symlink and creates a new wallet.
 85 2011-08-02 01:41:10 <drgr33n> But if I copy a wallet across to the folder it see's the wallet and uses that.
 86 2011-08-02 01:41:23 <temporalcause> can you just symlink the whole directory?
 87 2011-08-02 01:41:41 <drgr33n> Um I suppose I'll try now
 88 2011-08-02 01:41:52 <temporalcause> hehe :P
 89 2011-08-02 01:43:28 <temporalcause> is there a dev room specifically for gpu mining development on here?
 90 2011-08-02 01:44:28 <temporalcause> or is this it?  haha
 91 2011-08-02 01:44:55 <drgr33n> Nope I get a DB error. plus I didn't want to bloat the encrypted filespace. I'm sure this worked with the old version
 92 2011-08-02 01:45:53 <iddo> drgr33n: it's not important as permanent solution anyway, v0.4 will have encrypted wallet where private keys get decrypted only when you send coins, which is safer than what you do
 93 2011-08-02 01:47:00 <drgr33n> Ahhh I see this option already in the git version.
 94 2011-08-02 01:49:00 <Zarutian> h'lo. I have question regarding https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_4:_Using_external_state does the result from the oracle come in front of the granddads txn's output's scriptPubkey? So the resulting whole script that decides if the grandson gets the inheritance or not would be <grandsons scriptSig><oracles script sig of the result of the evaluated expression checking if granddad is alive or dead><granddads scriptPubkey>
 95 2011-08-02 01:50:37 <drgr33n> Could anyone point me to the snippet of code responsible for checking if a wallet exists and creates if not ?
 96 2011-08-02 01:51:39 <dooglus> [6~
 97 2011-08-02 01:54:43 <dooglus> I said that?
 98 2011-08-02 01:54:44 <dooglus> weird
 99 2011-08-02 01:57:41 <dooglus> drgr33n: I'm guessing it's the "ret = pdb->open(..." in db.cpp that does it
100 2011-08-02 01:59:30 <drgr33n> I think thats got more to do with the database ? I was looking at
101 2011-08-02 01:59:58 <drgr33n> http://pastebin.com/HinMAy17
102 2011-08-02 02:00:18 <dooglus> drgr33n: the wallet is a database
103 2011-08-02 02:00:30 <drgr33n> Could someone tell me if I'm correct lol I'm no c+= coder this is going to take quite a bit :D
104 2011-08-02 02:00:51 <drgr33n> ahhh ok
105 2011-08-02 02:01:02 <dooglus> drgr33n: line 4 of your paste makes a CWallet object
106 2011-08-02 02:01:15 <dooglus> which ends up calling the code I mentioned
107 2011-08-02 02:01:41 <drgr33n> Ok so wheres the test to check if a wallet already exists ?
108 2011-08-02 02:01:51 <drgr33n> Or am I being dumb lol
109 2011-08-02 02:05:29 <cjdelisle> Zarutian: you might want to check back in about 12 hours from now, that's when devs seem to be around.
110 2011-08-02 02:07:07 <cjdelisle> My unofficial answer is that I think that example was "wearing rose colored glasses" so to speak and the suggection an oracle not actually knowing it is an oracle while still providing the signed data ready made for the chain is ridiculous.
111 2011-08-02 02:10:40 <drgr33n> http://pastebin.com/6gadR4P5
112 2011-08-02 02:10:45 <drgr33n> that looks more like it :D
113 2011-08-02 02:21:57 <Eliel> cjdelisle: it's ridiculous as long as there's no significant use for that sort of info other than bitcoin.
114 2011-08-02 02:22:34 <Eliel> I mean, as long as bitcoin clients support it, it could theoretically use any algorithm.
115 2011-08-02 02:38:26 <drgr33n> bah it was my script :D sorry peops lol
116 2011-08-02 05:11:58 <dazboy22> hi
117 2011-08-02 05:21:21 <erus`> ;;help
118 2011-08-02 05:21:22 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
119 2011-08-02 05:38:28 <dazboy22> anyone buying any btc?
120 2011-08-02 05:41:16 <MrSam> i'll sell you mine
121 2011-08-02 05:41:33 <MrSam> 1 testnet btc for 1 usd
122 2011-08-02 05:42:59 <JFK911> lol havent you given up yet
123 2011-08-02 05:45:38 <dazboy22> JFK911
124 2011-08-02 05:45:40 <dazboy22> who?
125 2011-08-02 06:01:36 <erus`> its a trap
126 2011-08-02 06:04:05 <ersi> Could someone please look at http://pejsta.nu/21 (Build errors)?
127 2011-08-02 06:04:11 <ersi> Trying to build a recent git clone of bitcoin with wxWidgets-2.9.2 and miniupnpc-1.5
128 2011-08-02 06:15:03 <erus`> ersi: shouldnt there be a -lwxwidgets or something
129 2011-08-02 06:15:32 <erus`> -lwxregexu-2.9 -lwxtiff-2.9
130 2011-08-02 06:15:49 <erus`> is that all you need to link against?
131 2011-08-02 06:16:48 <erus`> (this is why i hate c/c++)
132 2011-08-02 08:39:23 <sacarlson> this value I see in main.cpp INT_MAX  I don't see it defined so it must be built into c++ ?
133 2011-08-02 08:39:51 <mtrlt> it's defined in climits
134 2011-08-02 08:40:02 <mtrlt> so yes
135 2011-08-02 08:42:31 <sacarlson> mtrlt: ok thanks
136 2011-08-02 08:53:17 <cosurgi> ;seen tcatm
137 2011-08-02 08:53:59 <BlueMatt> ;;seen tcatm
138 2011-08-02 08:53:59 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 14 hours, 35 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <tcatm> jrmithdobbs: do you know the -m switch of mkfs.extX? :)
139 2011-08-02 08:54:14 <cosurgi> tcatm: ayt?
140 2011-08-02 09:24:29 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gim
141 2011-08-02 09:24:29 <gribble> gim was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, 39 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <gim> i agree (even though i use emacs for coding)
142 2011-08-02 09:51:53 <tcatm> cosurgi: pong
143 2011-08-02 11:03:39 <MaggyO> how many confirms should i wait until i trust a transaction
144 2011-08-02 11:05:17 <MrSam> 120
145 2011-08-02 11:06:35 <MaggyO> whats a reasonable number for a website
146 2011-08-02 11:06:36 <MaggyO> 2?
147 2011-08-02 11:07:04 <edcba> depends on what you sell :)
148 2011-08-02 11:07:11 <edcba> and what risks you want to take
149 2011-08-02 11:07:49 <MaggyO> mtgox waits 6 apparently
150 2011-08-02 11:08:02 <mtrlt> yea, 6 is where the official client deems a tx as "verified"
151 2011-08-02 11:08:37 <MaggyO> the json api defaults to 1
152 2011-08-02 11:10:01 <Eliel> mtrlt: this has been repeated over and over but there's no official client :D Although I do understand the impulse to call it that :P
153 2011-08-02 11:10:17 <Eliel> I'm bound to make that mistake myself, yet :P
154 2011-08-02 11:12:13 <mabus> can you explain how it's not the default client
155 2011-08-02 11:12:25 <vegardno> you mean there's no official client because bitcoin is distributed?
156 2011-08-02 11:12:44 <vegardno> it is easily the original client, though, and the one feeatures on bitcoin.org
157 2011-08-02 11:14:18 <mtrlt> "the client that 99.9% of users use anyway" is too long :P
158 2011-08-02 11:16:18 <edcba> 99.9 i doubt that
159 2011-08-02 12:41:42 <mabus> 09:12 < vegardno> you mean there's no official client because bitcoin is distributed?
160 2011-08-02 12:41:48 <mabus> that doesnt mean anything
161 2011-08-02 12:42:01 <mabus> bittorrent has (had) an official client
162 2011-08-02 12:42:08 <mabus> limewire, emule etc
163 2011-08-02 12:45:49 <BlueMatt> limewire wasnt the official client
164 2011-08-02 12:45:56 <BlueMatt> there was none for gnutella
165 2011-08-02 13:00:07 <CIA-103> bitcoin: m0mchil * r076f85c63d1c poclbm/Transport.py: again fixed calculation of true target http://tinyurl.com/3k66ysl
166 2011-08-02 13:20:24 <vegardno> mabus: I was just asking for a clarification of his point
167 2011-08-02 13:20:33 <vegardno> that's not my opinion
168 2011-08-02 14:26:17 <asher^> does pushpool have a stop command?
169 2011-08-02 14:26:59 <jrmithdobbs> sigterm
170 2011-08-02 14:27:29 <asher^> heh ok, thanks
171 2011-08-02 14:58:02 <hippich_> hey, is it possible to tell btc client to not generate new address for a change and re-use existing addresses in pool _always_?
172 2011-08-02 14:58:18 <luke-jr> sure, hack the code
173 2011-08-02 14:58:35 <hippich_> this is obvious =)
174 2011-08-02 14:58:38 <BlueMatt> its an easy change
175 2011-08-02 14:58:52 <BlueMatt> s/its/it should be/
176 2011-08-02 14:59:11 <BlueMatt> bonus points if you fix https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/445 while you are in there
177 2011-08-02 14:59:11 <hippich_> i also think so. but hope someone already did it.
178 2011-08-02 15:01:28 <ewal-otg> is it still likelythat the import/export pull request will get merged as part of the next release?
179 2011-08-02 15:06:00 <jrmithdobbs> it's slated for part of .4 yes
180 2011-08-02 15:06:15 <jrmithdobbs> wallet crypto (in) and import/export were the major items
181 2011-08-02 15:08:15 <luke-jr> don't forget signmessage
182 2011-08-02 15:09:25 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, those funds might be claimable...
183 2011-08-02 15:14:13 <phantomcircuit> no nvm
184 2011-08-02 15:14:18 <phantomcircuit> definitely not
185 2011-08-02 15:14:34 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, ++ for being open
186 2011-08-02 16:08:19 <ersi> ;;estimate 1500 501
187 2011-08-02 16:08:19 <gribble> Error: "estimate" is not a valid command.
188 2011-08-02 16:08:25 <ersi> ;;bc,help
189 2011-08-02 16:08:26 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btceur, Alias bc,btcgbp, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,btcrub, Alias bc,btcto, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,convert, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,diffchange, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias (1 more message)
190 2011-08-02 16:08:42 <ersi> ;;bc,estimate 1500 501
191 2011-08-02 16:08:43 <gribble> 2015247.49547277
192 2011-08-02 16:08:52 <ersi> ;;bc,ca??c 1500 501
193 2011-08-02 16:08:52 <gribble> Error: "bc,ca??c" is not a valid command.
194 2011-08-02 16:08:55 <ersi> ;;bc,calc 1500 501
195 2011-08-02 16:08:57 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
196 2011-08-02 16:09:23 <ersi> ;;bc,gend 1500 501
197 2011-08-02 16:09:24 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1500 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 501, is 3.01146221732 BTC per day and 0.125477592388 BTC per hour.
198 2011-08-02 16:09:48 <ersi> ;;bc,gend 70000 501
199 2011-08-02 16:09:48 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 70000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 501, is 140.534903475 BTC per day and 5.85562097812 BTC per hour.
200 2011-08-02 16:17:59 <CydeWeys> ersi: The bot responds in PM to that stuff.
201 2011-08-02 16:18:23 <ersi> Heh, didn't know that. But now I do. Hint gotten.
202 2011-08-02 16:18:44 <ersi> Also, the help it outputs sucks dongs
203 2011-08-02 16:22:19 <asher^> ive got a more user friendly bot in another channel if youre interested
204 2011-08-02 16:25:12 <ersi> Hm. Is anyone here fiddling with trunk? Are you able to start the client with -server -testnet?
205 2011-08-02 16:27:56 <ersi> What permissions should .bitcoin/testnet/bitcoin.conf have?
206 2011-08-02 16:33:15 <ersi> Oh, I see. It's just being tricky. It tells you .bitcoin/testnet/bitcoin.conf.. but it's really looking for .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf. Sneaky.
207 2011-08-02 16:35:43 <jrmithdobbs> awesome dna: patentable
208 2011-08-02 16:35:47 <jrmithdobbs> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/02/isolated_human_genes_can_be_patented/
209 2011-08-02 16:36:12 <jrmithdobbs> wrong channel
210 2011-08-02 16:37:04 <cjdelisle> the patent office is a fraud, you can patent the process of making toast but good luck ever defending it
211 2011-08-02 16:39:05 <jrmithdobbs> cjdelisle: this was a court ruling
212 2011-08-02 16:39:23 <jrmithdobbs> as in, they have successfully defended it (can be appealed a few more times)
213 2011-08-02 16:44:12 <ersi> I got a miner (poclbm) trying to connect to bitcoind (running testnet), which gets the following in debug.log: PROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND
214 2011-08-02 16:44:22 <ersi> Anyone got any hints for what that means?
215 2011-08-02 16:48:34 <cjdelisle> hmm another sign of the old governmental/legal/financial structure condemning itself to obscurity. As holders of BTC, we should be thankful since through their incompetence, they're effectively resigning their post.
216 2011-08-02 17:01:14 <ersi> Anyone? :|
217 2011-08-02 17:19:18 <ersi> Guess you can't use a regular miner with a bitcoind which runs on testnet then T_ T
218 2011-08-02 17:25:42 <dooglus> ersi: I ran a miner on testnet recently
219 2011-08-02 17:25:58 <ersi> GPU miner? poclbm/phoenix etc?
220 2011-08-02 17:26:25 <dooglus> ersi: ~/Programs/cpuminer/minerd --threads 1 --url http://localhost:8332 --userpass user:pass
221 2011-08-02 17:26:35 <dooglus> ersi: a CPU miner, but that shouldn't matter
222 2011-08-02 17:26:45 <ersi> because I'm getting that message in the debug.log with bitcoin-0.3.24 as well
223 2011-08-02 17:31:28 <ersi> Uh, hm. Now I'm getting spammed with IRC got who'
224 2011-08-02 17:31:40 <ersi> when my miner connects to bitcoin:8332 o_o
225 2011-08-02 17:37:50 <ersi> Huh.
226 2011-08-02 17:38:02 <ersi> Works @ 0.3.24 on windows
227 2011-08-02 17:42:20 <xelister> fuck.
228 2011-08-02 17:46:18 <xelister> Fuuuuuu
229 2011-08-02 17:48:27 <coderrr> xelister, wat are you fuuuing about
230 2011-08-02 17:48:45 <xelister> 10
231 2011-08-02 17:49:34 <coderrr> as in u predict we're heading there?
232 2011-08-02 18:07:20 <copumpkin> b4epoche: how goes your mac os client by the way? need testars?
233 2011-08-02 18:12:41 <gribble> 1888786.7053531
234 2011-08-02 18:12:41 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
235 2011-08-02 18:14:11 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: the link was a different bug on the old encryption branch
236 2011-08-02 18:14:34 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: (on issue 445), but it resulted in the same address
237 2011-08-02 18:14:40 <BlueMatt> either way this bug is probably my fault as well
238 2011-08-02 18:14:49 <BlueMatt> I think Im the last to have touched the keypool code
239 2011-08-02 18:18:53 <Eliel> is there any software for the moment that supports importing addresses from the wallet so you can monitor the balances with it but can't make transactions (as it doesn't have private keys)?
240 2011-08-02 18:19:09 <BlueMatt> wallet encryption is the only way currently
241 2011-08-02 18:19:21 <BlueMatt> its something that has been tossed around, but never actually implemented afaik
242 2011-08-02 18:19:45 <BlueMatt> but you can gladly import into an encrypted wallet and never enter the password or manually overwrite the master key
243 2011-08-02 18:20:07 <Eliel> does the RPC API have enough functionality so you could do it from a separate program?
244 2011-08-02 18:21:07 <Eliel> I just might write one if it's possible through the RPC API.
245 2011-08-02 18:26:45 <SgtSpike> MagicalTux, may I PM you?
246 2011-08-02 18:28:02 <BlueMatt> Eliel: no, the check this address' balance feature has never been implemented in the client, you would have to implement it yourself
247 2011-08-02 18:28:21 <BlueMatt> (unless you actually import a key into the wallet, then remove it)
248 2011-08-02 18:28:39 <fabianhjr> Should we split #bitcoin into #bitcoin and #bitcoin-mining ?
249 2011-08-02 18:28:54 <fabianhjr> Nvm, it is already split.
250 2011-08-02 18:28:55 <BlueMatt> there already is a bitcoin-mining
251 2011-08-02 18:29:52 <lfm> bluematt can we fix it so testnet will no longer accept mainnet address string? it is a one line fix.
252 2011-08-02 18:30:30 <BlueMatt> I dont see why not, but there mustve been some argument against originally, not something satoshi? (or gavin, whoever did that code) wouldve missed
253 2011-08-02 18:31:12 <lfm> bluematt ya, the only argument is that byte is labled as a "version" so the test is >= instead of ==
254 2011-08-02 18:31:51 <lfm> base58.h:    return (nVersion <= ADDRESSVERSION);
255 2011-08-02 18:31:59 <BlueMatt> well its a simple change, so Im assuming there was some reason why it was desired to be able to send testnet coins to mainnet addresses)
256 2011-08-02 18:32:11 <BlueMatt> though I would have to say its not a bad idea...
257 2011-08-02 18:32:15 <BlueMatt> (to leave it)
258 2011-08-02 18:32:28 <BlueMatt> I mean that way you can test with real addresses
259 2011-08-02 18:32:48 <BlueMatt> ie if your frontend does its own isaddressvalid function
260 2011-08-02 18:33:01 <lfm> The only "reason" is if the byte was actually a version you should be able to send older version strings to newer systems but since the byte is not really used that way. it is worng imho
261 2011-08-02 18:33:54 <lfm> bluematt it is a big pain in the but if you accidently put a mainnet adddress in then you gotta fiddle with wallets back and forth
262 2011-08-02 18:33:56 <Eliel> it could be used that way in the future. Maybe Satoshi intended for the version to be incremented if the algorithms are ever switched.
263 2011-08-02 18:34:20 <BlueMatt> meh, you can ask sipa, tcatm, jgarzik gavin if they care, personally I dont care either way
264 2011-08-02 18:34:34 <lfm> sigh
265 2011-08-02 18:34:54 <BlueMatt> yea, but we have enough headroom to leave processing of testnet and mainnet version 2, 3, etc separate
266 2011-08-02 18:34:59 <BlueMatt> without needing to think about that
267 2011-08-02 18:35:05 <Eliel> yes, true
268 2011-08-02 18:35:59 <lfm> how many to reserve for mainnet? all values < 0x80?
269 2011-08-02 18:36:12 <lfm> no, 0x40
270 2011-08-02 18:36:26 <lfm> testnet is 11 < 0x80
271 2011-08-02 18:36:31 <lfm> testnet is 111 < 0x80
272 2011-08-02 18:36:56 <BlueMatt> though look up sipa's thing on address numbering meanings
273 2011-08-02 18:37:27 <Eliel> 0x40 sounds like enough to me. Enough versions that you can start recycling old ones if they're ever all used up.
274 2011-08-02 18:37:41 <BlueMatt> he came up with a new standard that encompasses all the different coin systems
275 2011-08-02 18:37:54 <BlueMatt> the only real argument is to be able to test with real addresses
276 2011-08-02 18:38:48 <lfm> ya, point is when you accidently sendtoaddress a mainnet address. it gets "converted" into a testnet address. ie the key is unchanged but the address string has various formats for the various "version" bytes
277 2011-08-02 18:42:58 <lfm> I expect the code involved would need to be reworked if there was a new address string format in any case so it cant hurt to just make the test ==
278 2011-08-02 18:44:46 <lfm> or i spoze if the hash160 involved needed to be changed
279 2011-08-02 18:53:07 <marvinm_> ;;bc,stats
280 2011-08-02 18:53:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 139339 | Current Difficulty: 1888786.7053531 | Next Difficulty At Block: 141119 | Next Difficulty In: 1780 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 12 hours, 53 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2031635.73877421
281 2011-08-02 19:00:53 <sneak> http://i55.tinypic.com/2lmvv2a.gif
282 2011-08-02 19:01:54 <erus`> wtf am i watching
283 2011-08-02 20:07:49 <SgtSpike> MagicalTux, can I PM you?
284 2011-08-02 20:10:45 <BlueMatt> ask him on #mtgox probably, plus hes probably asleep (or will wake up soon)
285 2011-08-02 20:42:05 <SgtSpike> BlueMatt, thanks for the suggestion.  I didn't realize he had his own IRC channel
286 2011-08-02 21:09:05 <MaggyO> @btc stats
287 2011-08-02 21:09:06 <SuprTiggr> MaggyO: Error: "btc" is not a valid command.
288 2011-08-02 21:09:48 <imsaguy> ;;btc,stats
289 2011-08-02 21:09:49 <gribble> Error: "btc,stats" is not a valid command.
290 2011-08-02 21:40:38 <BlueMatt> where is a sipa when you need him?
291 2011-08-02 21:48:09 <MaggyO> btc mining rate raised 25% in 3 days
292 2011-08-02 21:48:19 <MaggyO> the F is going on
293 2011-08-02 21:50:01 <BlueMatt> I got bored and set up my machine to mine?
294 2011-08-02 21:54:23 <lfm> MaggyO: it varies a lot daya to day.
295 2011-08-02 21:55:09 <gribble> 2004621.59159859
296 2011-08-02 21:55:09 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
297 2011-08-02 21:55:45 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
298 2011-08-02 21:55:49 <gribble> 2039050.94253
299 2011-08-02 21:56:51 <lfm> MaggyO: doesnt seem its gone up that much, how did you estimate it?
300 2011-08-02 21:58:38 <MaggyO> bitcoinwatch
301 2011-08-02 21:58:50 <MaggyO> went from 12000GH to 16500GH from 31july to 2 aug
302 2011-08-02 21:59:34 <lfm> ya, how did you measure that?
303 2011-08-02 22:00:53 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
304 2011-08-02 22:00:58 <gribble> The read operation timed out
305 2011-08-02 22:01:03 <edcba> grmbl
306 2011-08-02 22:01:28 <lfm> and thats only 73 %
307 2011-08-02 22:04:41 <lfm> or 138% perhaps
308 2011-08-02 22:33:04 <nexes> Does anyone know of a safe way to edit the wallet of a running bitcoind?
309 2011-08-02 22:33:35 <nexes> I need to be able to swap keys in and out very quickly.
310 2011-08-02 22:33:38 <lfm> ya, use bitcoind commands
311 2011-08-02 22:34:19 <lfm> dunno how you swap keys in and out tho. there might be a patch for that.
312 2011-08-02 22:34:33 <doublec> nexes: there's a patch for importing/exporting keys
313 2011-08-02 22:34:36 <doublec> nexes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
314 2011-08-02 22:34:48 <nexes> doublec: Awesome, thanks. :D
315 2011-08-02 22:35:10 <nexes> I really should look through the pull requests. >_>
316 2011-08-02 22:35:30 <imsaguy> its supposed to be in the official soon
317 2011-08-02 22:35:32 <imsaguy> .4 I think
318 2011-08-02 22:36:30 <lfm> sounds dangerous. seems like it would be easy to abuse/misuse that
319 2011-08-02 22:36:39 <nexes> How so?
320 2011-08-02 22:36:56 <lfm> messup your wallet, lose keys etc etc
321 2011-08-02 22:37:28 <nexes> I don't think they'll add a poorly implemented feature to the mainline client.
322 2011-08-02 22:37:42 <lfm> dream on
323 2011-08-02 22:38:02 <nexes> Well, regardless, for my purposes if it breaks the wallet a rollback is trivial anyway.
324 2011-08-02 22:38:18 <b4epoche_> well, export != delete
325 2011-08-02 22:38:54 <lfm> ok ya, no delete would be a little safer
326 2011-08-02 22:39:47 <jrmithdobbs> really needs a delete option
327 2011-08-02 22:40:29 <b4epoche_> seems like the foundation is also in place for multiple wallet.dat files but I'm not sure when that will be used
328 2011-08-02 22:40:58 <lfm> people use multiple wallet.dat files now
329 2011-08-02 22:41:27 <b4epoche_> in a hackish way
330 2011-08-02 22:41:33 <lfm> not something Id recomend but they do it
331 2011-08-02 22:42:07 <lfm> if file copy and rename is "hacking" then I spoze you could call it that
332 2011-08-02 22:42:37 <b4epoche_> okay, let's call it kludgish
333 2011-08-02 23:31:28 <m03sizlak> hey, ive launched a HTML5 bitcoin blackjack site, check it out  http://bitjack21.com
334 2011-08-02 23:32:16 <MaggyO> nice work
335 2011-08-02 23:32:29 <m03sizlak> why thank you
336 2011-08-02 23:32:42 <MaggyO> wheres the source
337 2011-08-02 23:34:05 <m03sizlak> MaggyO, its 100% honest i assure you
338 2011-08-02 23:34:14 <m03sizlak> im reluctant to post my source, yet
339 2011-08-02 23:34:37 <MaggyO> why i want to steal it and use it on my site
340 2011-08-02 23:34:42 <MaggyO> dont be greedy mang
341 2011-08-02 23:35:04 <lfm> but its ok if you are MaggyO ?
342 2011-08-02 23:35:19 <MaggyO> i didnt expect that question
343 2011-08-02 23:35:44 <lfm> no body expects the spanish inquisition.
344 2011-08-02 23:36:11 <MaggyO> who are you a bitcoin irs
345 2011-08-02 23:36:16 <MaggyO> come to go over my records
346 2011-08-02 23:36:32 <MaggyO> its all clean, i dont have 17000btc from bitomat
347 2011-08-02 23:36:35 <lfm> our main weapons are surprize and fear
348 2011-08-02 23:36:46 <MaggyO> my share was only 2000btc
349 2011-08-02 23:37:11 <lfm> whats bitomat?
350 2011-08-02 23:37:15 <MaggyO> 1. pay amazon technician to be inept   2. ??? 3. profit
351 2011-08-02 23:42:17 <MaggyO> whats it coded in m03sizlak
352 2011-08-02 23:42:20 <MaggyO> jscript?
353 2011-08-02 23:42:43 <m03sizlak> jscript, jquery is the game client
354 2011-08-02 23:42:47 <m03sizlak> server is php mysql
355 2011-08-02 23:43:24 <m03sizlak> plays in all major browsers including android and ipad
356 2011-08-02 23:43:43 <m03sizlak> plays *beautifully* in all major browsers i should say
357 2011-08-02 23:44:34 <m03sizlak> come play!
358 2011-08-02 23:44:50 <m03sizlak> min bet: 0.01 BTC, max bet [currently]: 0.25 BTC
359 2011-08-02 23:45:12 <cjdelisle> cool, you ought to add betting on the stock market
360 2011-08-02 23:45:30 <m03sizlak> rouletter is next
361 2011-08-02 23:45:36 <m03sizlak> *roulette
362 2011-08-02 23:46:17 <cjdelisle> ya wanna make a lot of people really really mad... long term pools on how long celebrities and politicians will live.
363 2011-08-02 23:46:37 <m03sizlak> ppl wouldnt trust the site to stay alive that long
364 2011-08-02 23:46:48 <cjdelisle> betting is morally reprehensable. cheating is downright evil
365 2011-08-02 23:46:59 <m03sizlak> so far, people have deposited money, either lost it, or doubled,tripled it & then withdrew it all
366 2011-08-02 23:47:20 <m03sizlak> and i dont cheat, i assure you mu site is 100% legit
367 2011-08-02 23:47:27 <cjdelisle> games vs people who are good at math
368 2011-08-02 23:47:28 <MaggyO> words are words
369 2011-08-02 23:47:29 <m03sizlak> i will be making hand histories and stats available
370 2011-08-02 23:47:47 <m03sizlak> you check the dealer bust %, currently its about 30%
371 2011-08-02 23:47:52 <m03sizlak> right where it should be
372 2011-08-02 23:48:03 <MaggyO> doesnt your server control that number
373 2011-08-02 23:48:08 <m03sizlak> no
374 2011-08-02 23:48:10 <m03sizlak> random numbers do
375 2011-08-02 23:48:22 <m03sizlak> theres 8 decks, shuffled before every hand
376 2011-08-02 23:48:23 <MaggyO> where is the number taken from to be displayed
377 2011-08-02 23:48:32 <m03sizlak> the database of all games played
378 2011-08-02 23:48:34 <MaggyO> not your server?
379 2011-08-02 23:48:39 <m03sizlak> yes
380 2011-08-02 23:48:42 <cjdelisle> if you're willing to do 10 minute wait times, you can bet on the last bytes of the hash of the next block, that's pretty honest
381 2011-08-02 23:48:43 <Namegduf> MaggyO: It's not a number taken from a place to be displayed
382 2011-08-02 23:48:49 <MaggyO> lawl
383 2011-08-02 23:48:51 <m03sizlak> but math says the number should be about 28.5%
384 2011-08-02 23:48:52 <Namegduf> It's a percentage of events
385 2011-08-02 23:49:06 <Namegduf> Of events which meet X criteria
386 2011-08-02 23:49:14 <MaggyO> you worked on this with him?
387 2011-08-02 23:49:16 <Namegduf> As those events are available to others, it can hypothetically be confirmed
388 2011-08-02 23:49:17 <Namegduf> No
389 2011-08-02 23:49:30 <Namegduf> I've no remote connection to this, I just understand probability.
390 2011-08-02 23:49:39 <Namegduf> Let's say there's a betting site which lets you bet on the roll of a die.
391 2011-08-02 23:49:41 <m03sizlak> me too, im a degenerate gambler
392 2011-08-02 23:49:51 <m03sizlak> put 2K on black last week
393 2011-08-02 23:49:53 <m03sizlak> lost
394 2011-08-02 23:49:53 <Namegduf> If it's 6, you get five times your money back.
395 2011-08-02 23:49:56 <MaggyO> Namegduf: then how do you know he isnt just displaying some number
396 2011-08-02 23:50:03 <Namegduf> MaggyO: Because it's not being displayed.
397 2011-08-02 23:50:15 <Namegduf> It's being calculated and the basis for the calculation is public information
398 2011-08-02 23:50:17 <m03sizlak> correct, but it will be soon
399 2011-08-02 23:50:19 <MaggyO> <m03sizlak> you check the dealer bust %, currently its about 30%
400 2011-08-02 23:50:23 <Namegduf> So anyone can just repeat the calculation
401 2011-08-02 23:50:25 <m03sizlak> ill show all YOUR hand histories
402 2011-08-02 23:50:29 <MaggyO> how can i check something if its not displayed
403 2011-08-02 23:50:34 <m03sizlak> and the dealer bust % vs YOU
404 2011-08-02 23:50:36 <Namegduf> By calculating it yourself
405 2011-08-02 23:50:40 <m03sizlak> or that^^
406 2011-08-02 23:50:40 <MaggyO> lawl
407 2011-08-02 23:51:02 <m03sizlak> eventually ill post my code
408 2011-08-02 23:51:09 <m03sizlak> but not until my site is more established
409 2011-08-02 23:51:10 <MaggyO> that wont matter
410 2011-08-02 23:51:21 <MaggyO> source doesnt mean much, you can change it
411 2011-08-02 23:51:26 <m03sizlak> true
412 2011-08-02 23:51:44 <cjdelisle> I have seen an nist random number generator implemented entirely in sql
413 2011-08-02 23:51:58 <m03sizlak> mysql> select sum(netGain) from games where player != 'moeSizlak';
414 2011-08-02 23:51:59 <m03sizlak> +--------------+
415 2011-08-02 23:52:15 <m03sizlak> that shows that my site thus far (over 2 days) has LOST 1.14 BTC to players
416 2011-08-02 23:52:16 <m03sizlak> :P
417 2011-08-02 23:52:31 <Namegduf> MaggyO: Let's say there's a site which gives you 5 times your money back on rolling a 6 on a 1d6.
418 2011-08-02 23:52:44 <MaggyO> Namegduf: i dont think you understand my points tbh
419 2011-08-02 23:52:53 <Namegduf> I don't think you understand statistics.
420 2011-08-02 23:53:02 <Namegduf> Statistically, the dice should give money back 1/6th of the time.
421 2011-08-02 23:53:10 <MaggyO> and
422 2011-08-02 23:53:11 <m03sizlak> say you have 3 missiles, one hits its target 70% of the time, the other 80%, the other 90%
423 2011-08-02 23:53:16 <Namegduf> So it should have roughly a 16.66% chance of doing so.
424 2011-08-02 23:53:18 <m03sizlak> you fire all 3 at the same target
425 2011-08-02 23:53:18 <MaggyO> you need a high enough sample to determine the real rate
426 2011-08-02 23:53:22 <Namegduf> Yes, and?
427 2011-08-02 23:53:26 <m03sizlak> what is the probability target is hit?
428 2011-08-02 23:53:36 <MaggyO> how muhc money you going to blow testing if some site is legit?
429 2011-08-02 23:53:55 <MaggyO> how do you know its legit on all bets? maybe its just the small ones
430 2011-08-02 23:53:58 <m03sizlak> bah, im off to bed, come gamble!
431 2011-08-02 23:53:58 <Namegduf> The point is that the percentage is not "displayed", it cannot be tampered with by the server, all of that crap is nonsense
432 2011-08-02 23:54:11 <cjdelisle> I tend to assume that it is legit, still I don't gamble so it does me little good.
433 2011-08-02 23:54:13 <MaggyO> maybe if(btc_bet > 0.25) { halve_odds }
434 2011-08-02 23:54:23 <Namegduf> It can be independently calculated.
435 2011-08-02 23:54:40 <Namegduf> All reasonable points, but none of them substantiate your original whining about "where is displaying" it.
436 2011-08-02 23:54:51 <MaggyO> he said check it out
437 2011-08-02 23:55:10 <Namegduf> Just 'cause you understand it now doesn't mean you don't get to be wrong when you didn't.
438 2011-08-02 23:55:11 <MaggyO> that assumes you can see the 30% he is claiming somewhere without having to do 100 bets to determine it
439 2011-08-02 23:55:13 <Namegduf> Anyways, I should go.
440 2011-08-02 23:55:16 <MaggyO> haha
441 2011-08-02 23:55:19 <m03sizlak> smart blackjack players playing against a continuous shuffling machine do not change their bet
442 2011-08-02 23:55:21 <lfm> 99.4%
443 2011-08-02 23:55:26 <m03sizlak> lfm, correct
444 2011-08-02 23:55:34 <Namegduf> MaggyO: Or people who played could share their results, you know
445 2011-08-02 23:55:50 <MaggyO> Namegduf: right, and how do you know they arent paid by him
446 2011-08-02 23:55:59 <m03sizlak> and MaggyO , i will be posting the stats soon
447 2011-08-02 23:56:03 <cjdelisle> hehe
448 2011-08-02 23:56:06 <Namegduf> Still fails to connect to your original complaint
449 2011-08-02 23:56:07 <m03sizlak> the site is new, and my time is limited
450 2011-08-02 23:56:24 <MaggyO> Namegduf: i think your reading comprehension is too bad to understand my point(s)
451 2011-08-02 23:56:40 <Namegduf> I think repeating that over and over isn't going to win you any points.
452 2011-08-02 23:57:09 <Namegduf> You said "doesn't your server control that number".
453 2011-08-02 23:57:12 <lfm> understanding statistics doesnt really help you detect cheaters
454 2011-08-02 23:57:18 <cjdelisle> "how do you know they arent paid by him" reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy which I just heard about the other day.
455 2011-08-02 23:57:32 <MaggyO> Namegduf: yes under the assumption it was showing some 30% number like he implied
456 2011-08-02 23:57:53 <Namegduf> No, that's not what the word "control" means.
457 2011-08-02 23:57:57 <MaggyO> only some fool would say "try my gambling system enough times and it will show you 30%"
458 2011-08-02 23:57:58 <Namegduf> "control" does not mean "can fake"
459 2011-08-02 23:58:01 <Namegduf> It means "gets to set"
460 2011-08-02 23:58:07 <MaggyO> haha ok
461 2011-08-02 23:58:25 <MaggyO> resume your high school studies mang
462 2011-08-02 23:59:02 <lfm> have you heard of the non-transitive dice?