1 2011-08-07 00:04:10 <lfm> XRcode: that address is unused atm
  2 2011-08-07 00:05:14 <lfm> it had a zillion bitcents in it but they are all spent
  3 2011-08-07 00:05:33 <XRcode> hmm
  4 2011-08-07 00:06:24 <lfm> if it was yours you should be ashamed of yourself
  5 2011-08-07 00:06:39 <XRcode> lol no it wasn't mine
  6 2011-08-07 00:06:41 <XRcode> thats for sure
  7 2011-08-07 00:07:06 <XRcode> it came up in something related to mybitcoin
  8 2011-08-07 00:07:10 <lfm> is there anything else you wanted to know about it?
  9 2011-08-07 00:07:42 <XRcode> just if there was anything interesting about it or if it played a part in anything thats going on
 10 2011-08-07 00:07:59 <XRcode> really
 11 2011-08-07 00:08:16 <XRcode> i just thought it was strange that is was too large to list publicly
 12 2011-08-07 00:08:18 <lfm> last activity on it was 2010-09-12
 13 2011-08-07 00:08:34 <XRcode> yeah ok so its old then
 14 2011-08-07 00:08:41 <XRcode> thanks
 15 2011-08-07 00:14:57 <theymos> Here, it's available for a short time: http://99.188.19.113/address/18gBZnsuSrhYLjvPUgwvDUJmksfREUGBTT .
 16 2011-08-07 00:16:49 <theymos> BBE doesn't display addresses with more than 5000 transactions because it uses too much memory. The memory consumption will be reduced in the future, which will allow these to be displayed normally.
 17 2011-08-07 00:17:22 <lfm> ya looks like that was some sort of spam address
 18 2011-08-07 01:20:00 <Diablo-D3> well this is fucked up
 19 2011-08-07 01:20:06 <Diablo-D3> remember when my gigabit nic died?
 20 2011-08-07 01:20:07 <Diablo-D3> its back
 21 2011-08-07 01:37:46 <lfm> well I can't find any attemps at double spending in my blocks data.
 22 2011-08-07 01:38:03 <lfm> atempts
 23 2011-08-07 01:38:54 <Diablo-D3> lfm: you wouldnt see it
 24 2011-08-07 01:38:59 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin doesnt keep dead block forks
 25 2011-08-07 01:39:17 <lfm> oh? what makes you think that?
 26 2011-08-07 01:40:21 <lfm> it has to keep them cuz they "could" become the active fork again at any time
 27 2011-08-07 01:40:36 <Diablo-D3> hrm
 28 2011-08-07 01:40:39 <Diablo-D3> maybe it does
 29 2011-08-07 01:40:44 <Diablo-D3> but how do you get at them?
 30 2011-08-07 01:40:47 <lfm> all that has to happen is a bunch of new blocks show up for that fork
 31 2011-08-07 01:41:13 <lfm> they are all in the blk0001.dat file actually
 32 2011-08-07 01:42:35 <lfm> they are indexed by hash so a new block with prevhash points to its prev block. if the new chain is longer than the "current" longest, the new one becomes the "current" longest
 33 2011-08-07 01:44:19 <lfm> not all nodes see all forks tho if they are never the longest
 34 2011-08-07 01:47:14 <lfm> so the fact is bitcoin keeps all old blocks even blocks in dead forks. there arnt really very many dead blocks so its no big deal
 35 2011-08-07 01:47:28 <lfm> blocks found 140150
 36 2011-08-07 01:47:29 <lfm> greatest chain length: 139922 blocks
 37 2011-08-07 01:47:42 <lfm> in my last run
 38 2011-08-07 01:48:58 <lfm> so I can detect attempts at double spending if I got both forks. I havnt found any yet tho
 39 2011-08-07 01:51:45 <lfm> also I might not see attempts if the TXN was rejected right away as invalid due to a spent input and it never got into any forks.
 40 2011-08-07 02:05:47 <lfm> what is pretiosissimus? google translate fails on that word
 41 2011-08-07 02:17:36 <mekel> question on setting up a bitcoin server for a lan in linux
 42 2011-08-07 02:19:13 <mekel> im just having one user connect to my server over the lan, should the server command be like bitcoind -server -rpcallowip 192.168.1.3 -rpcuser=user -rpcpassword=password &
 43 2011-08-07 02:19:42 <mekel> im also mining on the server itself so im wondering if i need the servers own ip?
 44 2011-08-07 02:27:29 <lfm> I think localhost is allowed by default
 45 2011-08-07 02:28:35 <mekel> true
 46 2011-08-07 02:28:57 <mekel> to send bitcoins to another wallet can i just use -u <wallet address>?
 47 2011-08-07 02:29:07 <mekel> thru the mining program i mean
 48 2011-08-07 02:30:19 <lfm> if you're mining like solo on bitcoind it will always add the 50btc to a new unused address it creates
 49 2011-08-07 02:31:20 <lfm> you have to use the user the same as bitcoin.config
 50 2011-08-07 02:31:37 <mekel> hm
 51 2011-08-07 02:34:59 <mekel> are there any trust worthy online wallets?
 52 2011-08-07 02:35:07 <lfm> no
 53 2011-08-07 02:35:29 <lfm> well maybe mtgox.com, trust is in the eye of the beholder
 54 2011-08-07 02:35:48 <mekel> ya but they only offer temporary wallet addresses
 55 2011-08-07 02:36:15 <mekel> i wonder if i can use slushes online site and set the send threshold to 50000000
 56 2011-08-07 02:36:35 <lfm> that would be silly
 57 2011-08-07 02:36:44 <mekel> y
 58 2011-08-07 02:36:49 <mekel> hm
 59 2011-08-07 02:37:05 <lfm> you can use slush or any pool and send to a wallet that is offline
 60 2011-08-07 02:37:41 <mekel> am i able to have a seperate wallet on the same computer?
 61 2011-08-07 02:37:52 <lfm> same as what?
 62 2011-08-07 02:38:02 <mekel> two wallets on one computer
 63 2011-08-07 02:38:33 <lfm> not generally advisable but if you are very carefull you can switch wallet.dat files back and forth yes.
 64 2011-08-07 02:38:53 <mekel> just drag and drop or rename temporarily ey?
 65 2011-08-07 02:39:08 <lfm> make sure you keep good backup copies and frequent backups or both
 66 2011-08-07 02:39:14 <mekel> hm
 67 2011-08-07 02:39:17 <mekel> k
 68 2011-08-07 02:39:39 <lfm> of both wallets too
 69 2011-08-07 02:40:05 <mekel> wheres wallet stored
 70 2011-08-07 02:40:24 <lfm> because ideally you never discard an address. once it is created you keep it forever
 71 2011-08-07 02:40:49 <lfm> wallet.dat is in your datadir
 72 2011-08-07 02:41:10 <lfm> on linux it is ~/.bitcoin/
 73 2011-08-07 02:41:24 <mekel> ty
 74 2011-08-07 02:41:31 <lfm> mswin uses a different name I dont remember
 75 2011-08-07 03:28:44 <m03sizlak> hey, ive launched a HTML5 bitcoin blackjack site, check it out  http://bitjack21.com
 76 2011-08-07 04:03:26 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
 77 2011-08-07 04:03:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 139930 | Current Difficulty: 1888786.7053531 | Next Difficulty At Block: 141119 | Next Difficulty In: 1189 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 12 hours, 6 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1837194.63586782
 78 2011-08-07 04:03:33 <gjs278> lol
 79 2011-08-07 04:03:36 <gjs278> difficulty drop
 80 2011-08-07 04:03:41 <gjs278> lololol
 81 2011-08-07 04:03:56 <gjs278> they'll be back
 82 2011-08-07 04:05:36 <owowo> !bc,interval
 83 2011-08-07 04:06:07 <owowo> !info
 84 2011-08-07 04:06:32 <owowo> waaah, i hate when bot ignore me
 85 2011-08-07 04:07:16 <owowo> !info
 86 2011-08-07 04:07:23 <owowo> !bc, interval
 87 2011-08-07 04:08:34 <owowo> !info
 88 2011-08-07 04:20:38 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
 89 2011-08-07 04:20:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.90014,"low":5.742,"avg":7.906433535,"vwap":7.589582115,"vol":123964,"last":7.2483,"buy":7.2004,"sell":7.2771}}
 90 2011-08-07 04:21:36 <Diablo-D3> so btc prices are collapsing?
 91 2011-08-07 04:21:53 <gjs278> looks like it
 92 2011-08-07 04:22:50 <gjs278> how many do you still have
 93 2011-08-07 04:23:48 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
 94 2011-08-07 04:23:49 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.90014,"low":5.742,"avg":7.905681918,"vwap":7.589538884,"vol":123962,"last":7.2483,"buy":7.2008,"sell":7.2431}}
 95 2011-08-07 04:23:59 <Diablo-D3> erp up up enter in wrong window
 96 2011-08-07 04:27:38 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,tradehill
 97 2011-08-07 04:27:38 <gribble> Error: "bc,tradehill" is not a valid command.
 98 2011-08-07 04:27:40 <Diablo-D3> aww
 99 2011-08-07 04:30:15 <nanotube> ;;bc,tradehill
100 2011-08-07 04:30:17 <gribble> {"ticker": {"sell": "7.8294717500", "buy": "7.6623000000", "last": "7.6623000000", "vol": "32894.2996486305", "high": "9.9081202182", "last_when": "17 minutes ago", "low": "6.2899000002"}}
101 2011-08-07 04:30:22 <nanotube> Diablo-D3: ^ just for you :)
102 2011-08-07 04:31:05 <Diablo-D3> er?
103 2011-08-07 04:31:13 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,tradehill
104 2011-08-07 04:31:14 <gribble> {"ticker": {"sell": "7.8294717500", "buy": "7.6623000000", "last": "7.6623000000", "vol": "32801.9265312927", "high": "9.9081202182", "last_when": "17 minutes ago", "low": "6.2899000002"}}
105 2011-08-07 04:31:16 <Diablo-D3> yay!
106 2011-08-07 04:31:28 <nanotube> just added it ;)
107 2011-08-07 04:43:05 <Graet> nice nanotube
108 2011-08-07 04:43:51 <nanotube> :)
109 2011-08-07 04:44:22 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,tradehill
110 2011-08-07 04:44:24 <gribble> {"ticker": {"sell": "7.8490500000", "buy": "7.6623000000", "last": "7.6623000000", "vol": "32811.6869797159", "high": "9.9081202182", "last_when": "38 seconds ago", "low": "6.2899000002"}}
111 2011-08-07 04:44:25 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtfox
112 2011-08-07 04:44:25 <gribble> Error: "bc,mtfox" is not a valid command.
113 2011-08-07 04:44:35 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
114 2011-08-07 04:44:36 <Graet> ooh mtfox
115 2011-08-07 04:44:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.83951,"low":5.742,"avg":7.892877256,"vwap":7.585748583,"vol":124073,"last":7.3,"buy":7.28531,"sell":7.295}}
116 2011-08-07 04:44:44 <Graet> that could be cool :P
117 2011-08-07 04:57:53 <Doktor99__> question - as a miner, how do I prove that I did work?
118 2011-08-07 04:58:24 <Doktor99__> ... that I actually did SHA256(SHA256)), compared my result for a partial collision
119 2011-08-07 04:58:46 <Doktor99__> this is in the context of pooled mining, of course
120 2011-08-07 05:00:24 <luke-jr> Doktor99__: you submit the work to the pool
121 2011-08-07 05:02:31 <Doktor99__> luke-jr: right, but why not just make up some random number; I know some pool use a metahash to check, but some do not
122 2011-08-07 05:02:42 <luke-jr> none use metahash
123 2011-08-07 05:02:56 <luke-jr> they just check every share, and only bother with shares
124 2011-08-07 05:03:07 <Doktor99__> sorry, you're right
125 2011-08-07 05:03:55 <Doktor99__> gottit, but what if you only hash that... and don't do the real work
126 2011-08-07 05:04:23 <luke-jr> then you've cracked SHA256
127 2011-08-07 05:04:48 <Doktor99__> right, so i'm missing something
128 2011-08-07 05:05:10 <luke-jr> if the first 32 bits of the hash are 0, that's a share
129 2011-08-07 05:05:25 <luke-jr> that happens one out of every 2^32 block headers you try on average
130 2011-08-07 05:05:41 <Doktor99__> OK, gottit
131 2011-08-07 05:06:37 <Doktor99__> so that share is 100% going to have at least on nonce value which has 32 leading zeros... or is it some very high percentage
132 2011-08-07 05:07:36 <luke-jr> &
133 2011-08-07 05:07:46 <luke-jr> a share is by definition a block header with the first 32 bits 0
134 2011-08-07 05:08:12 <luke-jr> there is an average of one of them across every header-minus-nonce
135 2011-08-07 05:09:05 <Doktor99__> ok, i finally get it
136 2011-08-07 05:09:09 <Doktor99__> that's really helpful
137 2011-08-07 05:09:44 <Doktor99__> it's like your always doing a proof-of-work that has a fixed difficulty
138 2011-08-07 05:10:00 <luke-jr> yeah, the pool sets the target&
139 2011-08-07 05:10:22 <Doktor99__> wow, the more i understand bitcoin, the more elegance emmerges
140 2011-08-07 05:10:30 <Doktor99__> so cool
141 2011-08-07 05:11:30 <Doktor99__> while I'm at it: what is the definition of a rejected share
142 2011-08-07 05:11:39 <luke-jr> there are many kinds of rejects
143 2011-08-07 05:11:43 <luke-jr> basically it means the pool didn't like it
144 2011-08-07 05:12:27 <Doktor99__> i guess there must be conditions whereby the miner does work which overlaps
145 2011-08-07 05:12:31 <Doktor99__> or cannot be credited
146 2011-08-07 05:12:49 <luke-jr> usually it means your share was based on old data that is no longer valid
147 2011-08-07 05:12:55 <luke-jr> eg, someone found a block
148 2011-08-07 05:13:21 <Doktor99__> seems that the most likely reason
149 2011-08-07 05:13:45 <Doktor99__> i though that long polling was intended to minimize that
150 2011-08-07 05:14:07 <Doktor99__> i.e. abort the current work if a new block is found, which invalidates the current effort
151 2011-08-07 05:14:27 <Doktor99__> but anyway, thanks for your help
152 2011-08-07 05:14:44 <luke-jr> H-not-zero duplicate stale prevhash-stale prevhash-wrong unknown-user unknown-work time-invalid time-too-old time-too-new
153 2011-08-07 05:14:50 <luke-jr> those are all the reasons I know of
154 2011-08-07 05:15:06 <luke-jr> LP does minimize it
155 2011-08-07 07:07:30 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,tradehill
156 2011-08-07 07:07:31 <gribble> {"ticker": {"sell": "8.9795266127", "buy": "8.8504795039", "last": "8.8504795039", "vol": "34688.0035599834", "high": "9.8000000000", "last_when": "2 minutes ago", "low": "6.2899000002"}}
157 2011-08-07 07:07:32 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
158 2011-08-07 07:07:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.80001,"low":5.742,"avg":7.873992164,"vwap":7.644830076,"vol":136633,"last":8.69504,"buy":8.62006,"sell":8.63005}}
159 2011-08-07 07:08:47 <Diablo-D3> heh the markets are going back up
160 2011-08-07 07:10:03 <Graet> :)
161 2011-08-07 07:10:51 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: you
162 2011-08-07 07:11:09 <Diablo-D3> nanotube: add buy/sell triggers so I can just ask all the markets at once
163 2011-08-07 07:13:54 <Eliel> wow, somebody sold 30k bitcoins in one go a few hours ago.
164 2011-08-07 07:24:31 <iddo> are you sure? i remember someone moved the price from about $9.2 to $5.8 but it was only several thousands of bitcoins, no?
165 2011-08-07 07:24:44 <iddo> where do you see 30k ?
166 2011-08-07 07:26:10 <iddo> actually maybe it was from 8 to 5.8
167 2011-08-07 07:30:21 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
168 2011-08-07 07:30:22 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.80001,"low":5.742,"avg":7.87037328,"vwap":7.646497365,"vol":137233,"last":8.63299,"buy":8.60023,"sell":8.63}}
169 2011-08-07 07:30:23 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,tradehill
170 2011-08-07 07:30:25 <gribble> {"ticker": {"sell": "8.9762512703", "buy": "8.9500000000", "last": "8.9416741635", "vol": "34689.4950878375", "high": "9.8000000000", "last_when": "52 seconds ago", "low": "6.2899000002"}}
171 2011-08-07 07:32:16 <Diablo-D3> maybe it'll go back up to 10
172 2011-08-07 08:46:50 <topi`> damn, my moneys are still on their way, can't buy cheap BTC today either :(
173 2011-08-07 08:46:55 <topi`> shucs
174 2011-08-07 08:53:58 <da2ce7> topi`, once you money gets in... I'll be back up to $12
175 2011-08-07 09:27:08 <topi`> da2ce7: that's what i'm afraid of!
176 2011-08-07 09:27:41 <topi`> although... as a holder of bitcoin assets, what's good for the BTC community is also good for me :)
177 2011-08-07 09:28:27 <justmoon> TD: you there?
178 2011-08-07 09:28:33 <TD> hi
179 2011-08-07 09:28:42 <justmoon> TD: you won't believe the mail YouTube just sent me
180 2011-08-07 09:28:51 <justmoon> "Your video, What is Bitcoin?, may have content that is owned or licensed by Al Jazeera. "
181 2011-08-07 09:28:56 <TD> lol
182 2011-08-07 09:28:59 <TD> fail
183 2011-08-07 09:29:26 <justmoon> unfortunately there is no button to say that you actually own the video
184 2011-08-07 09:29:28 <TD> did they take it down?
185 2011-08-07 09:29:44 <TD> really? i thought there was a dispute procedure
186 2011-08-07 09:30:03 <justmoon> yes, but you can only select that you have the owner's permission
187 2011-08-07 09:30:13 <justmoon> i.e. I'd have to acknowledge that al jazeera owns the rights
188 2011-08-07 09:30:22 <justmoon> which they FUCKING don't
189 2011-08-07 09:30:36 <TD> this is indeed very stupid. the contentid folks work in zurich
190 2011-08-07 09:30:41 <TD> i will go shout at them on monday
191 2011-08-07 09:30:47 <justmoon> TD: thanks man
192 2011-08-07 09:31:00 <justmoon> I don't know why this got to me to hard
193 2011-08-07 09:31:12 <justmoon> it's just - you make an original video and you still gotta deal with copyright bs
194 2011-08-07 09:31:14 <justmoon> ...
195 2011-08-07 09:31:29 <justmoon> so* hard
196 2011-08-07 09:31:31 <wumpus> it's weird anyway... you wouldn't expect a respected news shop like aljazeera to go around labeling videos that are clearly not theirs
197 2011-08-07 09:31:38 <TD> it's automatic
198 2011-08-07 09:31:47 <erus`> copyright is the bane of our time
199 2011-08-07 09:31:51 <TD> al jazeera probably upload all their videos and enter the "claim your content" system
200 2011-08-07 09:32:00 <TD> they've included pretty large segments of justmoons video in their reports
201 2011-08-07 09:32:13 <justmoon> wumpus, yeah they just aired our video and youtube doesn't have a concept of time apparently
202 2011-08-07 09:32:59 <justmoon> alright, I've calmed down :)
203 2011-08-07 09:33:20 <KARMITT> whats the link for the video?
204 2011-08-07 09:33:32 <justmoon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo
205 2011-08-07 09:33:39 <KARMITT> thanks!
206 2011-08-07 09:33:50 <TD> we'll get this sorted out
207 2011-08-07 09:33:58 <TD> actually i'll send them a mail now whilst i'm thinking about it
208 2011-08-07 09:34:03 <justmoon> thanks dude :)
209 2011-08-07 09:34:23 <justmoon> I'll got announce the meetup in the meantime
210 2011-08-07 09:34:25 <wumpus> ah the perils of automatic systems
211 2011-08-07 09:34:42 <KARMITT> thats the original vid
212 2011-08-07 09:35:42 <justmoon> KARMITT, which one did you want?
213 2011-08-07 09:37:56 <KARMITT> sorry i must have missed what u guys where talking about dont worry man
214 2011-08-07 09:45:06 <TD> BCBot: that's a broken link, tish
215 2011-08-07 09:45:27 <justmoon> BCBot, *poke* are you flesh or metal?
216 2011-08-07 09:45:30 <edcba> spamming not even working links
217 2011-08-07 09:45:42 <edcba> looks like state of bitcoin :)
218 2011-08-07 09:46:05 <edcba> lot of amateurs poking aroung bitcoin :)
219 2011-08-07 09:46:25 <justmoon> edcba, who you callin' an amateur, boy!
220 2011-08-07 09:47:03 <edcba> ppl losing their wallets :p
221 2011-08-07 09:47:13 <justmoon> ouch, that hurts :D
222 2011-08-07 09:48:31 <TD> heh
223 2011-08-07 09:49:08 <enquirer> if only security pros can use bitcoins we won't get too far
224 2011-08-07 09:49:54 <justmoon> enquirer, don't worry bro, if it can be made usable and secure, it will be
225 2011-08-07 09:50:01 <justmoon> and I personally think it can be
226 2011-08-07 09:50:33 <TD> the bad news is that making bitcoin fully secure is hard. the good news is, anyone can try
227 2011-08-07 09:50:49 <TD> in contrast to the existing financial systems, where the barrier to entry for security innovation is quite high
228 2011-08-07 09:50:55 <TD> god, i sound like an MBA don't i
229 2011-08-07 09:51:33 <justmoon> TD: hehe
230 2011-08-07 09:52:37 <justmoon> we need a hardware device that can 1. display transaction details, 2. store keys and 3. sign transactions - ArtForz said he was working on that back in march, really wonder what became of it
231 2011-08-07 09:52:49 <justmoon> and whether you could coopt some existing technology for this purpose
232 2011-08-07 09:54:45 <da2ce7> justmoon, how is the bitcoinj comming along?
233 2011-08-07 09:54:48 <da2ce7> *js
234 2011-08-07 09:55:20 <da2ce7> imho. Webcoin is the best replacement for mybitcoin.
235 2011-08-07 09:56:15 <justmoon> da2ce7, right now, I'm having memory issues during block chain download
236 2011-08-07 09:57:19 <justmoon> da2ce7, I've been working on it for two weeks, just can't get the damn thing to work for the 130000+ blocks
237 2011-08-07 09:57:44 <da2ce7> been fixing up issue in the root bitcoinj code? talked to mike?
238 2011-08-07 09:58:00 <justmoon> da2ce7, we're not using bitcoinj
239 2011-08-07 09:58:16 <justmoon> javascript != java :)
240 2011-08-07 09:58:26 <da2ce7> oh... I thought that was where you coped lots of the code from.
241 2011-08-07 09:58:41 <da2ce7> ofcourse js != j
242 2011-08-07 09:59:28 <justmoon> da2ce7, in the beginning, we copied almost 1:1, but now that it's about details, it doesn't really apply anymore
243 2011-08-07 10:02:47 <TD> justmoon: hmm, where does all the memory go?
244 2011-08-07 10:04:49 <justmoon> TD: mostly it's - something gets clogged and stuff piles up behind it
245 2011-08-07 10:05:10 <justmoon> TD: also our representation of stuff in memory isn't exactly efficient, thanks to our ORM layer
246 2011-08-07 10:05:45 <justmoon> TD: and finally, V8 (at least the 32 bit version) gets crashy at around 400 MB, so we gotta keep even the spikes below that
247 2011-08-07 10:06:14 <justmoon> (normal usage - when nothing is clogged - requires about 100 MB at the moment)
248 2011-08-07 10:06:48 <TD> hmm, just general GC problems then
249 2011-08-07 10:07:12 <TD> andreas was complaining about the object count, apparently dalvik sometimes struggles as well
250 2011-08-07 10:07:20 <TD> though i'm not sure if that's just general overload or some more specific issue
251 2011-08-07 10:09:50 <justmoon> for us its just - we want to download the block chain as quickly as possible - but we don't want to download it too quickly, or we'll run out of our ram allowance
252 2011-08-07 10:10:16 <justmoon> it's probably good that I'm testing it on 32 bit - I think the limits on 64 bit are significantly higher, don't quote me on that though
253 2011-08-07 10:11:49 <erus`> justmoon: what are you writing in javascript?
254 2011-08-07 10:12:47 <justmoon> erus`, node-bitcoin-p2p is a full implementation of a bitcoin daemon for Node.js
255 2011-08-07 10:12:54 <topi`> justmoon: what about implementing a separate "block server" that can be enquired for any pubkey data?
256 2011-08-07 10:13:08 <erus`> ah i have seen it before
257 2011-08-07 10:13:21 <justmoon> topi`, that's kind of what node-bitcoin-p2p is
258 2011-08-07 10:13:27 <topi`> storing all the block history seems awfully wasteful for me
259 2011-08-07 10:13:32 <topi`> hmmm
260 2011-08-07 10:14:09 <justmoon> topi`, node-bitcoin-p2p runs on the server and the client only downloads the transactions that affect him
261 2011-08-07 10:14:22 <topi`> if you think of it, the only relevant info one needs to collect from the blockchain, is which privkeys own which coins *right now*
262 2011-08-07 10:14:31 <topi`> and the history is irreleevant
263 2011-08-07 10:14:42 <justmoon> topi`, not so, you want to be able to show the history in the interface
264 2011-08-07 10:15:14 <topi`> why is that? unless you believe history is not unmutable.
265 2011-08-07 10:15:46 <topi`> or has bitcoin magically started to support chargebacks?
266 2011-08-07 10:15:55 <justmoon> what do you mean? the user wants to be able to see his past transactions
267 2011-08-07 10:16:07 <topi`> I meant tracing the history of a particular coin
268 2011-08-07 10:16:14 <TD> i think topi` is talking at the protocol level
269 2011-08-07 10:16:21 <topi`> how it has passed hands a->b->c
270 2011-08-07 10:16:32 <TD> and yes, lightweight clients like webcoin or bitcoinj clients don't store every transaction
271 2011-08-07 10:16:36 <TD> well
272 2011-08-07 10:16:41 <TD> node-bitcoin-p2p does i guess
273 2011-08-07 10:16:46 <TD> but i mean, the software end users run doesn't have to
274 2011-08-07 10:16:52 <justmoon> topi`, we don't care about the history of the coins
275 2011-08-07 10:16:58 <jargon> We are getting aggrivated.
276 2011-08-07 10:17:01 <jargon> Yes, we are.
277 2011-08-07 10:17:03 <topi`> justmoon: that's what I thought :)
278 2011-08-07 10:17:31 <justmoon> topi`, but you still need to keep all transactions around, because you do care about spent outputs associated with a user's wallet
279 2011-08-07 10:17:38 <Namegduf> topi`: History is not immutable.
280 2011-08-07 10:17:42 <Namegduf> topi`: Block chain splits.
281 2011-08-07 10:18:04 <Namegduf> You are correct that it doesn't need to be stored further back than needed to permit those, though.
282 2011-08-07 10:18:13 <topi`> the splits can't be several blocks of size.
283 2011-08-07 10:18:18 <Namegduf> Yes, they can.
284 2011-08-07 10:18:19 <justmoon> topi`, sure they can
285 2011-08-07 10:18:34 <topi`> that would require an awfully large netsplit, like on irc networks
286 2011-08-07 10:18:39 <justmoon> topi`, the chance of that happening just gets exponentially smaller the longer the chain gets
287 2011-08-07 10:18:50 <Namegduf> A block chain split has no relation to a "netsplit"
288 2011-08-07 10:19:05 <Namegduf> And is not a breakdown in communication, although one can be used to facilitate one.
289 2011-08-07 10:19:41 <Namegduf> But, yes, it can happen and that's why waiting for multiple confirmations exists.
290 2011-08-07 10:19:43 <topi`> I thought the protocol would try to reconcile differences in block chains
291 2011-08-07 10:19:58 <justmoon> topi`, not immediately, only when the side chain becomes longer than the main one
292 2011-08-07 10:20:01 <jargon> Diablo-D3, drazak, Silverpike.
293 2011-08-07 10:20:08 <Namegduf> The process still requires the history of both.
294 2011-08-07 10:20:18 <Namegduf> Up to the point of the split.
295 2011-08-07 10:20:56 <justmoon> you could safely delete spent outputs older than say 1000 blocks - a split that deep is negligible imho
296 2011-08-07 10:21:23 <justmoon> but our client though it doesn't really matter whether you could, because we want to keep that data anyway for the reasons I've mentioned before
297 2011-08-07 10:21:24 <Namegduf> Yeah.
298 2011-08-07 10:21:27 <TD> i'm thinking of dropping all block headers that are >1000 blocks back, at some point
299 2011-08-07 10:21:57 <TD> so the mobile apps using bitcoinj would not be able to properly handle splits of larger than that. but it seems unlikely that will ever happen barring some massive change to bitcoin itself
300 2011-08-07 10:22:10 <RealSolid> agreed td
301 2011-08-07 10:22:15 <topi`> TD: so how do you store the info they contain? make a tally about how many coins correspond to which pubkey?
302 2011-08-07 10:23:22 <topi`> without that, there's no way to see if the coin you received is backed up with enough value
303 2011-08-07 10:23:47 <TD> no. you throw away the contents after extracting transactions that send money to/from your wallet
304 2011-08-07 10:23:55 <TD> difficulty is used as a proxy for validity
305 2011-08-07 10:24:08 <TD> that is, you say, i've seen this tx be buried 3 blocks deep
306 2011-08-07 10:24:15 <TD> that's really hard to forge
307 2011-08-07 10:24:20 <TD> so i'll trust that i really did receive this money
308 2011-08-07 10:24:47 <justmoon> see the bitcoin paper, section 8
309 2011-08-07 10:24:49 <topi`> ok, I was thinking of an immediate notification of receiving a payment
310 2011-08-07 10:24:58 <TD> you can be immediately notified if you like
311 2011-08-07 10:25:08 <TD> it depends on your threat model and risk tolerance
312 2011-08-07 10:25:19 <topi`> but how can you be sure, without the block history, that the pubkey you've received contains enough coins?
313 2011-08-07 10:25:46 <topi`> well, when the next block gets announced, then it becomes evident if the tx was valid or not
314 2011-08-07 10:26:24 <TD> connect to some random nodes
315 2011-08-07 10:26:34 <TD> if they relay the transaction, it means either (a) they are attackers or (b) the tx is valid
316 2011-08-07 10:26:47 <topi`> right
317 2011-08-07 10:26:56 <TD> whether they are attackers or not depends on things like how you are connecting to the internet, and how you selected the peers to connect to
318 2011-08-07 10:27:18 <TD> a better way
319 2011-08-07 10:27:25 <TD> connect via SSL to a node you trust
320 2011-08-07 10:27:40 <TD> if it relays the transaction to you, it's good
321 2011-08-07 10:28:01 <TD> ideally, you could give a node some arbitrary tx and say "is this valid?" but the protocol doesn't support that. perhaps later.
322 2011-08-07 11:58:49 <Diablo-D3> [08:20:01] <jargon> Diablo-D3, drazak, Silverpike.
323 2011-08-07 11:58:50 <Diablo-D3> what
324 2011-08-07 12:17:11 <RealSolid> i thought transaction fees were 0.0005
325 2011-08-07 12:17:46 <RealSolid> when is the reason to use 0.001 enforced?
326 2011-08-07 12:21:38 <RealSolid> (Request error: Array ( [code] => -4 [message] => Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.001 because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds ) )
327 2011-08-07 12:40:06 <phantomcircuit> RealSolid, almost certainly new coins
328 2011-08-07 12:43:49 <RealSolid> i just realized that the fee structure isnt limited to a maximum
329 2011-08-07 12:44:04 <RealSolid> and there appears to be no way to determine the fee from json-api itself
330 2011-08-07 12:44:23 <jargon> CIA just left my house after being here for over 10 hours.
331 2011-08-07 12:46:47 <RealSolid> are you tom williams
332 2011-08-07 13:01:09 <FractalUniverse> jargon: what did they find?:)
333 2011-08-07 13:07:59 <doublec> RealSolid: yes, it's a pain if you want to pass the fee onto the customer
334 2011-08-07 13:16:33 <jargon> FractalUniverse, I can tell you they definitely didn't tell me whether they found my son and whether he really was in South Amerika or not.
335 2011-08-07 13:17:01 <jargon> I hack WMDs.
336 2011-08-07 13:17:56 <jargon> My kid's mom and her husband were in this IRC channel while in san francisco at one point.
337 2011-08-07 13:19:43 <jargon> Reason they came to my house so readily was because I am using a computer one of their operatives had confirmed as destroyed.
338 2011-08-07 13:21:18 <jargon> I unbricked the damn thing in less than 36 hours some months ago.
339 2011-08-07 13:21:25 <FractalUniverse> wmd = Weapons of Mass Destruction ?:o
340 2011-08-07 13:22:32 <mabus> lol keal talking shit
341 2011-08-07 13:23:18 <jargon> FractalUniverse, yes
342 2011-08-07 13:24:49 <jargon> The operatives also came by so readily, because the operative I spoke to simultaneously confirmed I was using the 'destroyed' computer while confirming I was the hacker that had a single click 'go' button set up for detonation nuclear weapons in every major city one timezone at a time in-order to knock Earth out of its orbit.
343 2011-08-07 13:24:59 <wumpus> unbricking WMDs, that sounds like fun :-)
344 2011-08-07 13:25:47 <Namegduf> Those terrorists, always screwing up rooting their WMDs.
345 2011-08-07 13:26:42 <jargon> It would have been a continuous 24hr barrage of nukes at the same angle from the sun in-order to nudge Earth out of its orbit.
346 2011-08-07 13:27:26 <Namegduf> Uh huh.
347 2011-08-07 13:27:36 <jargon> All Osama had was piece of shit commercial jets.
348 2011-08-07 13:27:50 <wumpus> this has nothing to do with bitcon development though
349 2011-08-07 13:27:57 <jargon> I have every weapon system in the world at my command.
350 2011-08-07 13:27:58 <wumpus> can you take this to #wmd-dev?
351 2011-08-07 13:28:07 <jargon> Bitcoin is Fawkes@Home
352 2011-08-07 13:28:31 <jargon> If you use bitcoin, you are part of a massive botnet
353 2011-08-07 13:28:33 <Namegduf> That's nice, jargon.
354 2011-08-07 13:28:36 <Namegduf> Want a cup of tea?
355 2011-08-07 13:29:22 <jargon> Teliros -> Glyph -> Vapor -> Bitcoin
356 2011-08-07 13:30:19 <jargon> How is it delusions of grandeur?
357 2011-08-07 13:31:16 <jargon> They let me out of the criminally insane prison after I had a nuclear bomber buzz the prison with the doors open in an exact 90 on a dime turn over the yard.
358 2011-08-07 13:31:39 <jargon> exactly 2 hours after down to the second I predicted it would arrive.
359 2011-08-07 13:32:05 <wumpus> jargon: you should write science fiction novels instead of spam irc channels
360 2011-08-07 13:32:09 <jargon> Having called in the nuclear airstrike on the prison using the prison phone.
361 2011-08-07 13:32:34 <jargon> wumpus, I am an imaginary friend gone horribly wrong.
362 2011-08-07 13:32:38 <jargon> I actually manifested.
363 2011-08-07 13:41:48 <jargon> Plus I figured out how to duplicate already non-existent currency stored in invalid accounts for use in online payments.
364 2011-08-07 13:42:15 <jargon> (4096bit RSA crack)
365 2011-08-07 13:43:25 <mabus> http://pastebin.com/jANCaxAC
366 2011-08-07 13:43:35 <mabus> ^more of keals aka jargon bitcoin ramblings
367 2011-08-07 14:12:02 <jargon> mabus, you are now k-lined from freenode for posting logs
368 2011-08-07 14:12:45 <mabus> it was on first page for your nick
369 2011-08-07 14:12:49 <mabus> not my logs
370 2011-08-07 14:12:53 <mabus> also, clearly i am not klined
371 2011-08-07 14:14:52 <mabus> also, funny you say you don't do drugs when i've literally watched you do drugs on webcam
372 2011-08-07 14:15:12 <cut> awesome this is starting to feel more and more like efnet
373 2011-08-07 14:16:02 <cut> someone should post dox to make it the trifecta
374 2011-08-07 14:16:16 <mabus> his dox are publically available
375 2011-08-07 14:16:26 <mabus> went to jail for raping a retarded kid, true story
376 2011-08-07 14:17:24 <vegard> jargon, is that you.
377 2011-08-07 14:21:08 <briareus> mabus: who?>
378 2011-08-07 14:21:31 <mabus> jargon aka keal
379 2011-08-07 14:21:41 <briareus> oh yeah I heard that from someone else
380 2011-08-07 14:21:46 <briareus> I thought you meant someone famous
381 2011-08-07 14:22:00 <briareus> mabus: what's your bitcoin address?
382 2011-08-07 14:22:05 <briareus> ;)
383 2011-08-07 14:22:11 <b4epoche_> wtf happened to this channel?
384 2011-08-07 14:22:30 <briareus> b4epoche_: ?
385 2011-08-07 14:22:43 <mabus> 1R1QyDyYdV479bGxNGMVLEbhU3nEhx6u2
386 2011-08-07 14:22:55 <b4epoche_> am I not in bitcoin-dev?
387 2011-08-07 14:23:21 <briareus> bitcoin sendtoaddress 1R1QyDyYdV479bGxNGMVLEbhU3nEhx6u2 0.025
388 2011-08-07 14:23:28 <briareus> I PUT IT IN YOU
389 2011-08-07 14:23:36 <briareus> b4epoche_: indeed you are.
390 2011-08-07 14:23:44 <briareus> b4epoche_: unless we're all dead in bitcoinheaven
391 2011-08-07 14:24:03 <b4epoche_> so where's the dev talk?
392 2011-08-07 14:25:06 <briareus> start talking, stud
393 2011-08-07 14:35:54 <vsrinivas> would patches be accepted in git format-patch style rather than github pull requests?
394 2011-08-07 14:36:08 <Eliel> b4epoche_: no mods around to keep it sensible, unfortunately.
395 2011-08-07 14:37:13 <b4epoche_> Eliel:  fortunately quieted down...
396 2011-08-07 15:31:53 <jav__> question about accounts: If you have two accounts A and B, receive a transaction of 1 BTC on A, then execute a "move" from A to B and then the transaction turns out to be a double spend. Do you end up with A: -1 and B: 1, or with A: 0 and B: 0 ?
397 2011-08-07 15:33:26 <tcatm> jav__: I think it's A: -1, B: 1 but I haven't tried it.
398 2011-08-07 15:34:02 <jav__> tcatm: ok.. yeah, that's what I would guess as well
399 2011-08-07 15:50:00 <Eliel> jav__: which transaction is the double spend? the "move" is a transaction too. Do you mean the move or the transaction that sent 1 BTC to A?
400 2011-08-07 15:50:24 <jav__> Eliel: with "move" I mean the RPC command move, which is not a transaction, but just internal book keeping
401 2011-08-07 15:50:50 <Eliel> oh, then I can't say anything :)
402 2011-08-07 16:31:22 <MacDada> hi, there is an IMHO important request you really should consider pulling: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/415
403 2011-08-07 16:31:52 <MacDada> The client now doesnt support anonimity as it should ???- when you spend money from your wallet, the app sends bitcoin from ???(kinda) randomly selected your receiving addresses. So if you, for example, receive donations from one address and get a secret payment from another, there is a chance that Bitcoin app will spend money from both those addreses, destroying anonimity of your "secret" address. Unfortunately you cant choose address(e
404 2011-08-07 16:37:16 <basti_> hey people.
405 2011-08-07 16:37:39 <basti_> I'm very interested in bitcoin as a system, and thus i just joined your chat.
406 2011-08-07 16:38:08 <copumpkin> ohai, another PL person
407 2011-08-07 16:38:14 <basti_> hi
408 2011-08-07 16:38:20 <basti_> o.0
409 2011-08-07 16:38:24 <Eliel> PL?
410 2011-08-07 16:38:31 <Eliel> and hello :)
411 2011-08-07 16:39:01 <basti_> that is: technical background and the question why not all bitcoins were created in the beginning.
412 2011-08-07 16:39:06 <basti_> hi Eliel and copumpkin
413 2011-08-07 16:39:48 <Giel> basti_: isn't it obvious? that would have made a very few people very rich (and as a result probably no one would adopt bitcoin)
414 2011-08-07 16:40:56 <lfm> basti_: and the system needs people to create "blocks". The mining is the reward so there is lots of volunteers
415 2011-08-07 16:41:17 <MacDada> copumpkin: by PL you mean from Poland?
416 2011-08-07 16:41:32 <copumpkin> I mean people interested in programming languages
417 2011-08-07 16:41:37 <MacDada> hehe ;]
418 2011-08-07 16:41:40 <copumpkin> at least I assume basti_ is :)
419 2011-08-07 16:41:44 <anatolbroder> :-)
420 2011-08-07 16:43:30 <basti_> Giel: i see that point.
421 2011-08-07 16:43:48 <basti_> copumpkin: yes i'm that same person.
422 2011-08-07 16:46:38 <basti_> is there somebody who's coding "beyond bitcoin" (eg. different currencies with different webs-of-trust maybe, or different client implementations)
423 2011-08-07 16:47:12 <lfm> basti_: there are several forks of bitcoin running
424 2011-08-07 16:47:24 <basti_> like... which ones?
425 2011-08-07 16:47:36 <lfm> namecoin and weeds
426 2011-08-07 16:47:46 <basti_> weeds.
427 2011-08-07 16:47:47 <basti_> ^^
428 2011-08-07 16:49:09 <anatolbroder> I try to fopen (PHP) the mtgox ticker http://mtgox.com/api/0/data/ticker.php but I don't get it :-( Another JSON file like https://github.com/api/v2/json/repos/show/bitcoin is no problem. Check the code http://pastebin.com/ZiGRjMD5
429 2011-08-07 16:49:27 <basti_> so everybody with another genesis block creates a new currency in bitcoin?
430 2011-08-07 16:49:54 <lfm> kinda ya, there is more than that to it to do it properly
431 2011-08-07 16:50:30 <basti_> probably you'd need to load that genesis block into a different client and make the clients behave well to other genesis blocks
432 2011-08-07 16:51:02 <lfm> basti_: you need to patch bitcoin to use a different port and a different node seed list
433 2011-08-07 16:51:35 <basti_> ok, i see that point
434 2011-08-07 16:54:35 <basti_> what would happen if someone tried to run blocks with a different magic number on the main network?
435 2011-08-07 16:54:54 <theymos> No one would see them.
436 2011-08-07 16:55:04 <lfm> theyd just be rejected as noise I think
437 2011-08-07 16:55:39 <lfm> it would be a kinda dumb thing to do
438 2011-08-07 16:55:46 <basti_> but it would possible to make a client run on all magic numbers available? :D
439 2011-08-07 16:56:02 <basti_> or at least, on all applicable
440 2011-08-07 16:56:12 <lfm> basti_: I dont see the point
441 2011-08-07 16:56:19 <basti_> uh, different currencies.
442 2011-08-07 16:56:25 <basti_> kin
443 2011-08-07 16:56:26 <basti_> a
444 2011-08-07 16:56:27 <basti_> kinda
445 2011-08-07 16:56:48 <lfm> most of them arnt worth anything so if you dont have a good reason to play with them, you would not want to.
446 2011-08-07 16:58:09 <basti_> hmm, actually i was thinking about some kind of "negotiatable instrument" in a bitcoin-like environment
447 2011-08-07 16:58:32 <basti_> for a start, think of enforcing some kind of delay on transactions.
448 2011-08-07 16:58:41 <lfm> that would not be using the block chain I dont think
449 2011-08-07 16:58:43 <theymos> You need to change more than the magic or else some attacker can easily destroy all of your blocks by introducing you to the Bitcoin chain.
450 2011-08-07 16:58:49 <basti_> transactions with illegal delays would be invalid
451 2011-08-07 16:59:39 <Namegduf> I don't understand why everyone wants to fragment the currency
452 2011-08-07 16:59:53 <basti_> theymos: i was thinking of a different client... ordinary clients just would ignore a different one, and the new ones would follow the rules they like.
453 2011-08-07 16:59:58 <Namegduf> I mean, is having to exchange so incredibly awesome they're worried about losing it?
454 2011-08-07 17:00:29 <Namegduf> basti_: theymos is correct. Your different client would need to be different in more ways for attackers to be unable to just introduce it to the regular bitcoin chain.
455 2011-08-07 17:00:33 <basti_> Namegduf: do you know "join-stock companies"?
456 2011-08-07 17:00:38 <Namegduf> You would have to make that impossible.
457 2011-08-07 17:00:39 <Namegduf> No.
458 2011-08-07 17:00:52 <lfm> I think people feel they missed the gold rush but they can start a new one to get in on the ground floor.
459 2011-08-07 17:01:36 <basti_> i was more thinking about enabling things like "negotiatable instruments" and "joint-stock-companies" the same way bitcoin works, but under different rules
460 2011-08-07 17:01:51 <sn-2011a> Im trying to port bitcoind for openBSD. I read on the fourms that it is possible to compile bitcoind with out the wxWidgets dependency. Does anyone know how to exclude the wxWidgets dep?
461 2011-08-07 17:01:54 <justmoon> TD: meetup announced: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=35224.0
462 2011-08-07 17:01:59 <lfm> basti_: well I dont know about that
463 2011-08-07 17:02:40 <justmoon> TD: I've got three people on the english speaking mailing list and six people on the german speaking list - I don't have bitdragon's email
464 2011-08-07 17:02:48 <TD> ok
465 2011-08-07 17:02:49 <basti_> lfm: i was thinking about extending the technology to new fields of similar structure.
466 2011-08-07 17:02:50 <TD> great
467 2011-08-07 17:02:56 <justmoon> announcement is ok?
468 2011-08-07 17:03:07 <justmoon> wasn't sure if you'd want me to mention the "googler coming" :)
469 2011-08-07 17:03:16 <basti_> lfm: eg. in a way, you can think about "stocks" as some kind of specialized "currency".
470 2011-08-07 17:03:16 <TD> no it's fine. hopefully he will actually be around ;)
471 2011-08-07 17:03:25 <TD> what is liip?
472 2011-08-07 17:03:45 <justmoon> TD: ok, I'm sending the emails out now then
473 2011-08-07 17:04:08 <basti_> lfm: the same way i would like to see a way of trading stocks the way you can trade bitcoin.
474 2011-08-07 17:04:13 <lfm> basti_: well some people think about bitcoins as a commodity rather than as a currency
475 2011-08-07 17:04:27 <basti_> this is true, definitely
476 2011-08-07 17:04:53 <lfm> basti_: the exchanges operate as a commodity market then rather than a currency exchange
477 2011-08-07 17:05:06 <basti_> true.
478 2011-08-07 17:05:45 <basti_> actually, you're saying: bitcoin isn't currency, and i agree with you on that.
479 2011-08-07 17:05:51 <lfm> as a commodity bitcoin is uniquly "portable" crossing international borders without taxes or customs
480 2011-08-07 17:06:24 <basti_> this is true, and an important notion, yes.
481 2011-08-07 17:06:40 <basti_> also i found that there is an unique value of trust on it's technology
482 2011-08-07 17:06:53 <basti_> basically, it's proven.
483 2011-08-07 17:06:59 <lfm> thats not really unique. that is part of any currency
484 2011-08-07 17:07:30 <basti_> i'm not entirely sure in some aspects that might be shown as peripheral
485 2011-08-07 17:07:43 <TD> weird
486 2011-08-07 17:07:55 <TD> gmail classified the german version of your mail as important, but the english one wasn't
487 2011-08-07 17:08:04 <lfm> hehe
488 2011-08-07 17:08:15 <lfm> most spam is in english?
489 2011-08-07 17:56:38 <aaa3> can anyone point me to the right ressources where I can learn how to verify that a btc transaction has been confirmed? im using php
490 2011-08-07 17:59:18 <basti_> aaa3: i think you might want to interface to the c code of the client instead of trying to imitate it in php
491 2011-08-07 18:01:08 <graingert> heya
492 2011-08-07 18:04:06 <basti_> am i correct in that usual "scripts" would command any client to check that the current owner of the bitcoin signed the transaction?
493 2011-08-07 18:07:09 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gend
494 2011-08-07 18:07:10 <gribble> (bc,gend <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
495 2011-08-07 18:08:46 <XRcode> diff=1888786.7053531; hashrate=3750000000; python -c "print $diff * 2**32 / $hashrate / 60 / 60.0 / 24"
496 2011-08-07 18:08:50 <XRcode> that works good too
497 2011-08-07 18:11:17 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gend 1600 502.92155041
498 2011-08-07 18:11:18 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1600 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 502.92155041, is 3.19995317149 BTC per day and 0.133331382146 BTC per hour.
499 2011-08-07 18:11:29 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calcd 1600 502.92155041
500 2011-08-07 18:11:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1600 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 502.92155041, is 2 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, and 19 seconds
501 2011-08-07 18:11:37 <phantomcircuit> ffs
502 2011-08-07 18:31:20 <neofutur> is it technically possible to do something to have fastest btc transfers between 2 echanges ?
503 2011-08-07 18:31:41 <neofutur> hard to make arbitrage when you still have only 2 confirmations after 1 hour
504 2011-08-07 18:32:21 <neofutur> would be possible to have nodes having a priority on confirming exchanges transactions ?
505 2011-08-07 18:32:39 <ThomasV> keep a buffer of btc at both exchanges
506 2011-08-07 18:32:53 <neofutur> not answering my question
507 2011-08-07 18:33:29 <imsaguy> neofutur, if the exchanges had some sort of communication between one another
508 2011-08-07 18:34:01 <lfm> neofutur: yes of course it would be "possible" best way to do that is offer higher fees
509 2011-08-07 18:34:51 <imsaguy> lfm, best for who?
510 2011-08-07 18:34:54 <neofutur> ok, no way for a miner or pool to have a priority on confirming those transactions ?
511 2011-08-07 18:35:13 <imsaguy> if the pool knew which addresses, they could make sure to have them included
512 2011-08-07 18:35:16 <lfm> why would they?
513 2011-08-07 18:35:56 <lfm> best for miner and if those txn are time critical then everyone gains
514 2011-08-07 18:35:56 <neofutur> to have fastest transfers between exchanges, without having higher fees
515 2011-08-07 18:36:18 <graingert> neofutur: ripple pay
516 2011-08-07 18:36:43 <lfm> why would the miner put lower fee txn before ones hthat have higher fees?
517 2011-08-07 18:36:44 <graingert> neofutur: ripplepay then exchanged send all their bitcoin in one go weekly
518 2011-08-07 18:37:20 <graingert> so each exchange would owe each other
519 2011-08-07 18:37:48 <graingert> if they trusted eachother
520 2011-08-07 18:38:58 <neofutur> ok
521 2011-08-07 18:39:03 <neofutur> another question
522 2011-08-07 18:39:07 <neofutur> all my cpuminers crashed on segfault this night
523 2011-08-07 18:39:10 <neofutur> never happened for months before
524 2011-08-07 18:39:22 <lfm> miners are under no obligation to put thru free txn at all.
525 2011-08-07 18:39:26 <neofutur> have been an attack on the bitcoin network ?
526 2011-08-07 18:39:35 <Namegduf> lfm: Any transaction at all, in fact.
527 2011-08-07 18:40:20 <mrb_> hey, we have now mined 7 million BTC... milestone reached about 2-3 hours ago
528 2011-08-07 18:40:31 <neofutur> same crash at the same time on 10 different computers . . . strange nop ?
529 2011-08-07 18:40:32 <imsaguy> yeah
530 2011-08-07 18:40:45 <imsaguy> yeah to the milestone
531 2011-08-07 18:40:52 <neofutur> when cpuminer never segfaulted before
532 2011-08-07 18:40:56 <lfm> neofutur: what miner was it?
533 2011-08-07 18:41:04 <neofutur> jgarzik cpuminer
534 2011-08-07 18:41:30 <neofutur> could be a reason why the network rate gone done if i m not the only one
535 2011-08-07 18:41:40 <lfm> did all 10 start their run at the same time too?
536 2011-08-07 18:41:51 <mtrlt> i doubt cpu miners contribute that much to the overall hashrate :P
537 2011-08-07 18:41:51 <neofutur> no
538 2011-08-07 18:42:09 <lfm> mtrlt: agreed
539 2011-08-07 18:42:20 <neofutur> depend of the number of botnets  mining
540 2011-08-07 18:42:24 <imsaguy> lol
541 2011-08-07 18:42:27 <imsaguy> even still
542 2011-08-07 18:42:33 <mtrlt> yeah
543 2011-08-07 18:42:36 <imsaguy> its probably an order smaller than gpu
544 2011-08-07 18:42:38 <mtrlt> you'd need a huge botnet mining 24/7 :P
545 2011-08-07 18:42:44 <lfm> most likely a bug in that miner
546 2011-08-07 18:42:52 <mtrlt> since the average cpu gets probably like 2 MH/s
547 2011-08-07 18:43:10 <imsaguy> mine gets more than that mtrlt
548 2011-08-07 18:43:20 <imsaguy> I think my laptop got more than that even
549 2011-08-07 18:43:23 <mtrlt> well mine gets 15MH/s
550 2011-08-07 18:43:25 <mtrlt> i said average
551 2011-08-07 18:43:34 <imsaguy> dude, the laptops 4 years old
552 2011-08-07 18:43:34 <mtrlt> most computers suck ass
553 2011-08-07 18:43:35 <basti_> so most of you actually are trying to mine
554 2011-08-07 18:43:36 <basti_> ?
555 2011-08-07 18:43:37 <lfm> the average core?
556 2011-08-07 18:43:59 <mtrlt> basti_: it's not about trying. you mine or not.
557 2011-08-07 18:44:05 <mtrlt> if you try and fail, you are an idiot :P
558 2011-08-07 18:44:10 <basti_> XD
559 2011-08-07 18:44:13 <mtrlt> lfm: hmm, yea.
560 2011-08-07 18:44:16 <lfm> basti_: its like buying lottery tickets these days. costs you more than you get on average
561 2011-08-07 18:44:26 <basti_> i understand.
562 2011-08-07 18:44:30 <imsaguy> well duh
563 2011-08-07 18:44:37 <mtrlt> lfm: depends on power prices.
564 2011-08-07 18:44:39 <imsaguy> any lottery that gives out more than it takes in isn't a lottery
565 2011-08-07 18:44:51 <mtrlt> lfm: for me the profitability point would be at $4.3 or so
566 2011-08-07 18:45:01 <mtrlt> and one kWh is $0.18
567 2011-08-07 18:45:02 <lfm> ya well bitcoin wasnt always that way.
568 2011-08-07 18:45:33 <lfm> mtrlt: at current difficulty?
569 2011-08-07 18:45:50 <mtrlt> lfm: yes
570 2011-08-07 18:45:53 <neofutur> 1 btc / month on free power is still 1 btc won ;) and no lottery
571 2011-08-07 18:46:11 <mtrlt> neofutur: managing the miners is gonna cost more of your time than 1 BTC :P
572 2011-08-07 18:46:21 <mtrlt> (per month)
573 2011-08-07 18:46:25 <lfm> ya and people freeloading their power
574 2011-08-07 18:46:36 <neofutur> nop, pretty easy with mining-proxy
575 2011-08-07 18:46:54 <mtrlt> neofutur: what about miner or GPU crashes?
576 2011-08-07 18:46:58 <mtrlt> (not that i've ever had those)
577 2011-08-07 18:47:02 <mtrlt> (in 4 months)
578 2011-08-07 18:47:15 <neofutur> first tiem my cpuminers crashed this night
579 2011-08-07 18:47:26 <lfm> I dont think botnets are big on mining at this point anyway
580 2011-08-07 18:47:35 <neofutur> never crashed before, and all crashed at the same time
581 2011-08-07 18:48:14 <neofutur> setup took time for miningproxy, but after that it takes me no time
582 2011-08-07 18:48:19 <lfm> neofutur: ya that is interesting, was there anything special happened in bitcoin to cause it tho?
583 2011-08-07 18:48:41 <neofutur> thats my question, if anyone reported an attack on the network
584 2011-08-07 18:48:59 <neofutur> if i m not alone to have seen this
585 2011-08-07 18:49:15 <lfm> but only cpuminer?
586 2011-08-07 18:49:17 <neofutur> if there was some king of buggy block, dunno
587 2011-08-07 18:49:46 <mtrlt> or a specific kind of network failure
588 2011-08-07 18:49:49 <neofutur> yes only unmodified jgarzik cpuminers on more or less 10 different computers idle cpu time
589 2011-08-07 18:49:58 <mtrlt> unless your miners are in different networks
590 2011-08-07 18:50:11 <neofutur> 3 different datacenters
591 2011-08-07 18:51:05 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  you around?
592 2011-08-07 18:51:21 <copumpkin> sort of
593 2011-08-07 18:51:39 <b4epoche_> you have a few minutes to test BitcoinTrader?
594 2011-08-07 18:52:26 <copumpkin> sure
595 2011-08-07 18:52:42 <b4epoche_> hold on, dropboxing
596 2011-08-07 18:53:28 <b4epoche_> I made some graphs for the account history (like ROI stuff) but I need a more active trader to test...
597 2011-08-07 18:53:44 <b4epoche_> although nowadays is probably not a good time to check your ROI
598 2011-08-07 18:54:04 <copumpkin> :)
599 2011-08-07 18:54:38 <copumpkin> unfortunately not all my coins are in mtgox anymore
600 2011-08-07 18:54:44 <copumpkin> so that makes it harder to calculate
601 2011-08-07 18:55:07 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
602 2011-08-07 18:55:13 <gribble> The read operation timed out
603 2011-08-07 18:55:22 <b4epoche_> yea, but I'm just trying to see if it works with more active accounts.
604 2011-08-07 18:55:31 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  where are your other coins?
605 2011-08-07 18:55:35 <copumpkin> hellobitcoin
606 2011-08-07 18:55:46 <copumpkin> quite liking it, but it's pretty quiet cause very few people use it
607 2011-08-07 18:55:52 <b4epoche_> ah, ezl got to you, eh?
608 2011-08-07 18:55:54 <copumpkin> yeah
609 2011-08-07 18:56:02 <b4epoche_> seems like a good fella
610 2011-08-07 18:56:48 <b4epoche_> I wonder to eventually get data from all the exchanges.
611 2011-08-07 18:56:58 <copumpkin> he has a pretty sane API
612 2011-08-07 18:57:31 <b4epoche_> I need to tap into the hellobitcoin (I really don't like that name) API
613 2011-08-07 18:57:59 <copumpkin> join #hellobitcoin :)
614 2011-08-07 18:58:41 <copumpkin> MacDada: that was useul
615 2011-08-07 18:58:54 <b4epoche_> wrong channel copumpkin
616 2011-08-07 18:59:14 <copumpkin> b4epoche_: he joined, said something useful, and parted
617 2011-08-07 18:59:17 <MacDada> copumpkin: the pleasure is mine ;]
618 2011-08-07 19:01:30 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  http://db.tt/oGZeFpv
619 2011-08-07 19:02:01 <b4epoche_> and anyone else that trusts me and wants to test an OSX app for viewing mtgox transactions
620 2011-08-07 19:02:32 <copumpkin> what should I be doing?
621 2011-08-07 19:02:54 <b4epoche_> go, Exchanges/Mt. Gox/Account
622 2011-08-07 19:03:14 <b4epoche_> a graph should show up once the data is transferred
623 2011-08-07 19:03:28 <b4epoche_> it's way to small by default so just make it bigger
624 2011-08-07 19:03:32 <copumpkin> hmm, I don't see any graph
625 2011-08-07 19:03:53 <copumpkin> hmm, maybe it isn't connected or something
626 2011-08-07 19:03:54 <copumpkin> http://snapplr.com/2v55
627 2011-08-07 19:04:01 <copumpkin> it does show my transaction history though
628 2011-08-07 19:04:27 <copumpkin> the utilities and exchanges menus look awfully odd by the way
629 2011-08-07 19:04:32 <b4epoche_> there are three panels&  middle one is graph
630 2011-08-07 19:04:33 <copumpkin> they have way less space on the left hand side than the other ones
631 2011-08-07 19:04:43 <copumpkin> I only have two panels
632 2011-08-07 19:05:15 <copumpkin> maybe it's leftover settings from the previous install?
633 2011-08-07 19:05:17 <b4epoche_> did you download the latest?
634 2011-08-07 19:05:23 <copumpkin> I downloaded the one you gave me
635 2011-08-07 19:05:34 <b4epoche_> BTCTrader has no settings ;-)
636 2011-08-07 19:05:48 <copumpkin> it doesn't remember where the splitter used to be?
637 2011-08-07 19:06:16 <b4epoche_> not seeing something like:  http://snapplr.com/8qxq
638 2011-08-07 19:06:22 <copumpkin> nope
639 2011-08-07 19:06:51 <b4epoche_> you see two Tx histories like:  http://snapplr.com/vr4a
640 2011-08-07 19:07:01 <copumpkin> nope
641 2011-08-07 19:07:07 <copumpkin> I'll redownload
642 2011-08-07 19:07:39 <copumpkin> nope
643 2011-08-07 19:07:45 <copumpkin> the one you gave me doesn't have that stuff
644 2011-08-07 19:08:59 <b4epoche_> oh, didn't drop the new one in the Public folder...
645 2011-08-07 19:09:05 <b4epoche_> it's there now...
646 2011-08-07 19:09:41 <b4epoche_> hold
647 2011-08-07 19:10:18 <b4epoche_> okay there now
648 2011-08-07 19:10:18 <copumpkin> hold?
649 2011-08-07 19:11:09 <copumpkin> I even put in a pretty order
650 2011-08-07 19:11:12 <copumpkin> just to see if it can see my orders
651 2011-08-07 19:11:29 <copumpkin> ooh look at that pretty graph
652 2011-08-07 19:12:02 <ThomasV> which graph ?
653 2011-08-07 19:12:12 <copumpkin> the order doesn't show up in my orders section
654 2011-08-07 19:12:16 <b4epoche_> red is 100xfees
655 2011-08-07 19:12:18 <copumpkin> not sure if that's because I didn't give the key full permissions
656 2011-08-07 19:12:31 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  probably
657 2011-08-07 19:12:44 <b4epoche_> yellow is sells, green is buys
658 2011-08-07 19:13:04 <b4epoche_> purple is value, orange is invested
659 2011-08-07 19:13:34 <copumpkin> hmm
660 2011-08-07 19:14:21 <b4epoche_> with all the data, you should want purple curve above orange one for a +ve ROI
661 2011-08-07 19:14:27 <copumpkin> what I meant by the way was http://snapplr.com/447w vs http://snapplr.com/2w50
662 2011-08-07 19:15:03 <b4epoche_> oh, yea, I know&
663 2011-08-07 19:15:41 <b4epoche_> space for 'checks' isn't there&  and probably shouldn't be but it does make things inconsistent
664 2011-08-07 19:15:58 <copumpkin> yeah, all menus everywhere have that space
665 2011-08-07 19:16:01 <copumpkin> even with no checkmarks
666 2011-08-07 19:16:09 <copumpkin> in fact, most mac OS menus don't use checkmarks
667 2011-08-07 19:16:52 <b4epoche_> yea, I know&  it was an IB checkbox that I check off since there wouldn't be check marks in the menus
668 2011-08-07 19:16:59 <copumpkin> ah :)
669 2011-08-07 19:17:27 <b4epoche_> I wasn't exactly sure what change it would make
670 2011-08-07 19:17:48 <copumpkin> :)
671 2011-08-07 19:18:11 <chinaskibit> Watching a presentation at defcoin right now, on bitcoins :)
672 2011-08-07 19:18:18 <copumpkin> defcoin? lol
673 2011-08-07 19:18:28 <chinaskibit> lol
674 2011-08-07 19:18:31 <chinaskibit> defcon*
675 2011-08-07 19:19:59 <b4epoche_> pumpkoin
676 2011-08-07 19:20:05 <b4epoche_> co_pumpk_in
677 2011-08-07 19:20:41 <copumpkin> :O
678 2011-08-07 19:21:30 <chinaskibit> Dan Kaminsky gave a talk here and said a little bit about bitcoins
679 2011-08-07 19:22:02 <chinaskibit> He thought the code was pretty robust
680 2011-08-07 19:23:03 <imsaguy> corn shucker!
681 2011-08-07 19:24:12 <b4epoche_> chinaskibit:  did he look at the code?
682 2011-08-07 19:24:18 <chinaskibit> Yeah
683 2011-08-07 19:27:39 <chinaskibit> What he said was looking at it up front, it looks bad up front, but once you scratch the surface, it's actually really bad
684 2011-08-07 19:27:45 <chinaskibit> good
685 2011-08-07 19:27:47 <chinaskibit> not bad
686 2011-08-07 19:27:54 <chinaskibit> sorry watching another conference
687 2011-08-07 19:27:56 <chinaskibit> got confuese
688 2011-08-07 19:27:57 <chinaskibit> d
689 2011-08-07 19:28:06 <justmoon> chinaskibit, we've all read the slides - do you know if the talk is being taped?
690 2011-08-07 19:28:19 <chinaskibit> It was
691 2011-08-07 19:28:27 <chinaskibit> I'm watching from my room
692 2011-08-07 19:28:35 <justmoon> oh lol
693 2011-08-07 19:28:36 <justmoon> link?
694 2011-08-07 19:28:42 <Doktor99__> http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/8493775234/dan-kaminsky-toorcon-bitcoin
695 2011-08-07 19:28:44 <chinaskibit> I mean my hotel room
696 2011-08-07 19:28:52 <chinaskibit> closed circuit tv
697 2011-08-07 19:29:11 <justmoon> ah I see
698 2011-08-07 19:30:46 <chinaskibit> But the dvds will be avaialbe
699 2011-08-07 19:32:14 <graingert> where is the bitcoin-qt irc?
700 2011-08-07 19:32:26 <graingert> not at #bitcoin-qt
701 2011-08-07 19:32:30 <ThomasV> tcatm: why is ruxum not included in bitcoincharts ?
702 2011-08-07 19:34:13 <neofutur> rucum still have no api
703 2011-08-07 19:34:15 <graingert> chinaskibit: is it live online?
704 2011-08-07 19:34:28 <neofutur> private beta and no api
705 2011-08-07 19:34:30 <chinaskibit> I don't think so
706 2011-08-07 19:34:35 <tcatm> ThomasV: ask them :)
707 2011-08-07 19:34:44 <neofutur> already bettter than tradehil, but with no api . . .
708 2011-08-07 19:34:45 <chinaskibit> I mean they sell the dvd's for like 299 dollars
709 2011-08-07 19:34:50 <chinaskibit> so I'm going to go with no
710 2011-08-07 19:35:36 <graingert> duffcon
711 2011-08-07 19:35:46 <graingert> it will be on the bay
712 2011-08-07 19:43:48 <neofutur> ( if anyone want ruxum invites pm me )
713 2011-08-07 19:45:05 <imsaguy> neofutur, what is it?
714 2011-08-07 19:53:42 <aaa3> 3.24 is the latest version?
715 2011-08-07 19:55:07 <edcba> not scalable & not anonymous indeed
716 2011-08-07 19:57:10 <edcba> haha the first five times you think you understand it you don't :)
717 2011-08-07 19:58:38 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r07fede7 / (lib/bitcoin.js package.json): Version bump to 0.0.8. ... https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/07fede77104fb4dc1712d634155217454b85d158
718 2011-08-07 20:08:31 <neofutur> imsaguy: a new exchange, private beta only, pretty well done but no API yet
719 2011-08-07 20:11:13 <imsaguy> web based only?
720 2011-08-07 20:13:42 <eianpsego> b4epoche, what was it that you felt he didn't understand?
721 2011-08-07 20:15:02 <wardearia> This just in:       I am now actively engaging audience directly             If you were to read an article about security and bitcoin, what kind of contents would you appreciate, enjoy, value, (insert more words here that you desire to see), etc?
722 2011-08-07 20:15:03 <eianpsego> Kamisky is well known in the security community for finding vulnerabilities in DNS
723 2011-08-07 20:22:53 <b4epoche_> eianpsego:  some of the scaling issues (and I'm not claiming I understand it either, just that I wouldn't be giving examples unless I was sure I knew what I was talking about)
724 2011-08-07 20:33:16 <eianpsego> b4epoche, I had seen the slides - didn't see the talk.  The slides looked technically correct to me, but I'd be glad to hear why others disagree with him/me.  I'm part of a research group that is studying the protocol.
725 2011-08-07 20:36:04 <aaa3> exec bitcoind
726 2011-08-07 20:36:06 <aaa3> -bash: exec: bitcoind: not found
727 2011-08-07 20:36:07 <aaa3> why..
728 2011-08-07 20:37:45 <devon_hillard> is there a bitcoin chart that takes into account difficulty as well as the mtgox exchange rate?
729 2011-08-07 20:38:41 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 100000
730 2011-08-07 20:38:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1888786.7053531 , is 2 years, 29 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes, and 11 seconds
731 2011-08-07 21:02:28 <doublec> eianpsego: regarding scalability: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
732 2011-08-07 21:02:54 <doublec> eianpsego: gmaxwell added some notes regarding Kaminsky's criticism's
733 2011-08-07 21:03:13 <doublec> eianpsego: here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Scalability
734 2011-08-07 21:03:49 <b4epoche_> eianpsego:  what research group&  basically I agree with the points raised in the comments that seem to have recently disappeared here:  http://www.slideshare.net/dakami/black-ops-of-tcpip-2011-black-hat-usa-2011
735 2011-08-07 21:08:20 <eianpsego> e4epoche, http://siis.cse.psu.edu/people.html
736 2011-08-07 21:11:10 <eianpsego> doublec, I'll take a look at those pages - thanks
737 2011-08-07 21:26:44 <wumpus> any forum mods here? need one urgently, someone (cowface1234) is spamming the forum with empty topics
738 2011-08-07 21:27:12 <upb> < eianpsego> Kamisky is well known in the security community for finding vulnerabilities in DNS
739 2011-08-07 21:27:22 <upb> s/finding/overhyping/