1 2011-08-12 00:09:10 <luke-jr> suggestion: allow backupwallet to encrypt the output, even if main wallet.dat is not encrypted
  2 2011-08-12 00:16:52 <lfm> luke-jr no thank you. maybe an option but leave the current function as is.
  3 2011-08-12 00:17:08 <luke-jr> allow implies option :P
  4 2011-08-12 00:23:27 <forrestv> why would namecoin (not sure if this applies to bitcoin, but it might) encode a target as 0x1c007fff instead of 0x1b7fff00?
  5 2011-08-12 00:24:29 <lfm> shouldnt. bitcoin wont
  6 2011-08-12 00:27:48 <lfm> forrestv: I supose it might be some sort of round off bug. it should not do that
  7 2011-08-12 00:43:29 <theymos> luke-jr: Why did you edit the wiki to say that clients must have all unspent transactions?
  8 2011-08-12 00:43:47 <mrb_> 10:04 < tcatm> mrb_: that would assume that all mining is done with CPUs which is incorrect, too
  9 2011-08-12 00:43:50 <luke-jr> theymos: because they do
 10 2011-08-12 00:43:50 <mrb_> you mean GPUs?
 11 2011-08-12 00:44:16 <luke-jr> theymos: it's impossible to verify received transactions without them
 12 2011-08-12 00:44:19 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: aren't you one of those guys that likes gplv3?
 13 2011-08-12 00:44:24 <mrb_> it is more correct to assume that all mining is done with GPUs, than with CPUs
 14 2011-08-12 00:44:32 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: depends what for
 15 2011-08-12 00:44:38 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: for anything
 16 2011-08-12 00:44:58 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: you ever written gplv3 licensed code that involved linked lists?
 17 2011-08-12 00:45:07 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no
 18 2011-08-12 00:45:21 <jrmithdobbs> i'm trying to find someone in violation of gplv3 unknowingly
 19 2011-08-12 00:45:27 <luke-jr> &
 20 2011-08-12 00:45:29 <theymos> luke-jr: You can use SPV to get confirmations. In the future, Bitcoin will do this by default, and most people will not download all unspent transactions.
 21 2011-08-12 00:45:30 <jrmithdobbs> because both single and double linked lists are patented ;p
 22 2011-08-12 00:45:36 <jrmithdobbs> http://www.google.com/patents?id=Szh4AAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=ininventor:%22Ming-Jen+Wang%22&hl=en&ei=JpFETt2OOuT30gHY752QCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA
 23 2011-08-12 00:45:40 <jrmithdobbs> (dead serious)
 24 2011-08-12 00:45:48 <luke-jr> theymos: SPV?
 25 2011-08-12 00:46:20 <theymos> luke-jr: Simplified payment verification. It's in the paper.
 26 2011-08-12 00:46:26 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I'm of the opinion that software patents are not legal and the courts have erred
 27 2011-08-12 00:46:50 <jrmithdobbs> well they keep err'ing
 28 2011-08-12 00:46:54 <luke-jr> theymos: just trusting that if it makes it to 1 confirmation it's ok?
 29 2011-08-12 00:48:21 <luke-jr> right now, the solution to "confirmations take too long" is to accept them at 0 confirmations
 30 2011-08-12 00:48:29 <luke-jr> but you can't get 0 confirmations without the unspent txns
 31 2011-08-12 00:48:36 <theymos> luke-jr Yes (thoug maybe with more confirmations). You can't do "real" verification without all unspent transactions, but it's expected that most clients in the future will trust the network enough to not need to do full verification. And it will be impossibly hard for most standard users to receive and store all unspent transactions.
 32 2011-08-12 00:49:17 <luke-jr> the network cannot be trusted by design
 33 2011-08-12 00:51:01 <theymos> The scalability page on the wiki says that the network will require receiving 8 gigabytes per second if the Bitcoin network gets huge. Standard clients will have to rely on SPV long before then.
 34 2011-08-12 00:52:06 <theymos> Obviously it would be better not to trust the network, but it will be necessary in the future. Maybe in part to avoid legal issues associated with possessing the block chain.
 35 2011-08-12 01:00:48 <luke-jr> theymos: if possessing the block chain is ever really illegal, Bitcoin is dead.
 36 2011-08-12 01:01:00 <phantomcircuit> lol right
 37 2011-08-12 01:01:33 <theymos> luke-jr: If owning the block chain is illegal in the US, then those clients can all use SPV and all miners can be located outside of the US.
 38 2011-08-12 01:16:28 <AAA_awright> jrmithdobbs: That's FUD, no one cares about patents
 39 2011-08-12 01:17:29 <AAA_awright> Not only wouldn't they but the FSF or any other org cannot sue over someone using a patented algorithm that's not theirs
 40 2011-08-12 01:49:54 <EPiSKiNG-> anyone know about electricity?  I have a 12v pump that I use to pump waste veggie oil into my grease bus.  Can I splice an extension cord into the power lines and plug it straight into our 1000w power inverter??
 41 2011-08-12 01:50:25 <EPiSKiNG-> We used to connect it to the deep cycle 12v battery, but it'd be more convienient to plug straight into a socket...
 42 2011-08-12 01:52:36 <[Tycho]> What socket ?
 43 2011-08-12 01:53:19 <EPiSKiNG-> a standard power outlet
 44 2011-08-12 01:53:35 <EPiSKiNG-> that comes from the inverter that is connected to the bus's auxillary battery
 45 2011-08-12 01:53:58 <[Tycho]> No, you can't plug 12 v DC pump into 220 v AC socket.
 46 2011-08-12 01:54:12 <[Tycho]> Firework will happen :)
 47 2011-08-12 01:54:55 <EPiSKiNG-> yeah, that would be baddd
 48 2011-08-12 01:55:14 <EPiSKiNG-> aahh, so the inverter converts DC to AC?
 49 2011-08-12 01:59:23 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 50 2011-08-12 02:00:05 <EPiSKiNG-> sooo what do i need to make a plug/socket type connection to the battery rather than aligator clamps
 51 2011-08-12 02:01:29 <EPiSKiNG-> standard extension cable to a standard socket, from the pump to the battery?
 52 2011-08-12 02:07:13 <[Tycho]> Why are you using battery, btw ?
 53 2011-08-12 03:09:28 <soap> the pump is 12v
 54 2011-08-12 03:09:52 <soap> there is a reason you can't find a bloody cable to plug it into the wall, EPiSKiNG-
 55 2011-08-12 03:10:26 <soap> fuck, why bother.
 56 2011-08-12 03:24:30 <random_cat> it sounds like he needs to tie it into the far side of the inverter... the battery side (or is it 12v AC?)
 57 2011-08-12 03:24:50 <random_cat> (or do you run a 24V system?)
 58 2011-08-12 03:50:16 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rf777ee14a4b2 / (7 files in 6 dirs): Serialise access to threads using strand. http://tinyurl.com/3l5gv6r
 59 2011-08-12 04:01:33 <forrestv> anybody want to help me figure this out: http://im.forre.st/pb/66985527.txt
 60 2011-08-12 04:01:43 <forrestv> namecoin uses an identical bignum.h
 61 2011-08-12 04:01:58 <forrestv> and one of their compressedtargets is encoded in a way that doesn't make sense
 62 2011-08-12 04:02:06 <forrestv> 0x1c007fff
 63 2011-08-12 04:02:20 <forrestv> i guess this is some kind of off-by-one error or rounding error?
 64 2011-08-12 04:03:05 <forrestv> that pastebinned text is proof that that block data results in that block hash, which is in the namecoin chain
 65 2011-08-12 04:05:36 <forrestv> 'BN_bn2mpi() and BN_mpi2bn() convert BIGNUM s from and to a format that consists of the number's length in bytes represented as a 4-byte big-endian number, and the number itself in big-endian format, where the most significant bit signals a negative number (the representation of numbers with the MSB set is prefixed with null byte).'
 66 2011-08-12 04:05:52 <forrestv> the msb of 0x7fff{lots of 0s} is not set ..
 67 2011-08-12 04:12:58 <Plasma-> forrestv; I dont know enough about the topic to really help, but I notice what you said earlier may help
 68 2011-08-12 04:13:09 <Plasma-> <forrestv> why would namecoin (not sure if this applies to bitcoin, but it might) encode a target as 0x1c007fff instead of 0x1b7fff00? <-- the two values look similar, just jumbled up?
 69 2011-08-12 04:13:31 <Plasma-> are you maybe parsing 1 byte too early or later or something?
 70 2011-08-12 04:13:37 <Plasma-> byte or bit*
 71 2011-08-12 04:13:59 <Plasma-> so the calculation is off slightly (so c becomes b) etc but only just, so the rest of the parsing loks ok
 72 2011-08-12 04:14:01 <Plasma-> looks ok*
 73 2011-08-12 04:14:04 <forrestv> nah .. targets are encoded as <byte encoding length of target><first three bytes of target>
 74 2011-08-12 04:14:10 <forrestv> if you look at those, they're equivalent
 75 2011-08-12 04:15:09 <forrestv> 0x1c007fff -> 0x007fff * 2^(0x1c - 24)
 76 2011-08-12 04:15:22 <forrestv> 0x1b7fff00 -> 0x7fff00 * 2^(0x1b - 24)
 77 2011-08-12 04:16:40 <forrestv> i manually checked the block hash in that pastebin, it's definitely included like this :P
 78 2011-08-12 04:22:35 <Plasma-> sorry I dont know enough about bitcoin to be much use yet :(
 79 2011-08-12 04:22:49 <Plasma-> all I can offer is some advice :P - you've probably made an assumption somewhere, double check they are right
 80 2011-08-12 04:23:07 <Plasma-> I find when I cant figure something out, its usually because I've assumed incorrectly about how something works etc
 81 2011-08-12 04:26:09 <Plasma-> maybe get yourself a few more examples to decode etc too and see if there is a pattern, or look at the source code of whatever encoded them to check for any specifics in how its encoding things
 82 2011-08-12 04:47:26 <luke-jr> so what do you guys think of ixcoin?
 83 2011-08-12 04:47:34 <RealSolid> shutup
 84 2011-08-12 04:47:37 <luke-jr> anyone want to put 388 BTC toward killing it?
 85 2011-08-12 04:47:43 <RealSolid> haha
 86 2011-08-12 04:47:47 <forrestv> luke-jr, how would that work?
 87 2011-08-12 04:48:08 <luke-jr> forrestv: I use 388 BTC to pay the Eligius miners for the 35 hours it would take to fork their block chain at height 2, and take over all blocks
 88 2011-08-12 04:48:27 <RealSolid> do it
 89 2011-08-12 04:48:32 <luke-jr> I don't have 388 BTC
 90 2011-08-12 04:48:44 <RealSolid> you mean you dont have 388btc to spare on killing ixcoin
 91 2011-08-12 04:48:45 <luke-jr> to spare
 92 2011-08-12 04:48:48 <RealSolid> haha
 93 2011-08-12 04:49:03 <RealSolid> dont kill it yet anyhow, im still profiting ffs
 94 2011-08-12 04:49:15 <luke-jr> me too, but still
 95 2011-08-12 04:49:27 <RealSolid> its going to die anyhow
 96 2011-08-12 04:49:28 <luke-jr> side effect: people might get pissed at Eligius :/
 97 2011-08-12 04:49:33 <RealSolid> the developer is funding the buys
 98 2011-08-12 04:49:41 <luke-jr> probably
 99 2011-08-12 04:49:47 <RealSolid> there is no probably
100 2011-08-12 04:50:03 <RealSolid> he entered yesterday early
101 2011-08-12 04:50:10 <RealSolid> set a "massive 600 btc" wall
102 2011-08-12 04:50:26 <luke-jr> lol
103 2011-08-12 04:50:29 <RealSolid> and has been adjusting his buys depending upon the mood in the irc channel and difficultly levels
104 2011-08-12 04:50:33 <RealSolid> good strat
105 2011-08-12 04:50:43 <random_cat> so wtf is ixcoin?
106 2011-08-12 04:50:47 <luke-jr> yet less than 600 BTC to take over ;)
107 2011-08-12 04:50:57 <RealSolid> luke-jr: that was 600btc once off yesterday
108 2011-08-12 04:51:01 <RealSolid> he may have entered more
109 2011-08-12 04:51:08 <RealSolid> seems like possibly an early btc guy
110 2011-08-12 04:51:15 <luke-jr> random_cat: retarded bitcoin fork that doesn't fix any of the problems, gives 96 IXC per block, and abuses freenode for peer finding
111 2011-08-12 04:51:32 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
112 2011-08-12 04:51:32 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":10.18,"low":8.45099,"avg":9.440850607,"vwap":9.363116538,"vol":77618,"last":9,"buy":8.99145,"sell":9}}
113 2011-08-12 04:51:36 <random_cat> is it supposed to fix any problems?
114 2011-08-12 04:51:44 <RealSolid> could be playing social experiment, or most likely , hopeing to profit big
115 2011-08-12 04:52:01 <RealSolid> turn a few thousand BTC into 50 thousand or something
116 2011-08-12 04:52:04 <luke-jr> random_cat: no, they didn't change any problems
117 2011-08-12 04:52:12 <random_cat> ic
118 2011-08-12 04:52:40 <luke-jr> I wonder, if the exchange would notice it's lost all its IXC
119 2011-08-12 04:53:05 <luke-jr> or if we could sell it all when we take over, and withdraw before the oper notices
120 2011-08-12 04:54:38 <luke-jr> oh well
121 2011-08-12 04:55:00 <luke-jr> if anyone with lots of Bitcoin to waste wants to kill ixcoin, lemme know :P
122 2011-08-12 04:55:36 <luke-jr> obviously the price will go up as it grows
123 2011-08-12 04:56:14 <RealSolid> stop being a pussy and point elegius to it
124 2011-08-12 04:56:31 <luke-jr> RealSolid: I don't have the funding for it
125 2011-08-12 04:56:50 <RealSolid> who needs funding when you have admin password
126 2011-08-12 04:57:04 <luke-jr> that'd be called theft, to defraud my miners
127 2011-08-12 04:57:21 <RealSolid> naw
128 2011-08-12 04:57:28 <RealSolid> because theyd have ixcoins which are currently worth more
129 2011-08-12 04:57:39 <luke-jr> they sure wouldn't be after the takeover
130 2011-08-12 04:57:58 <RealSolid> since its like 4-6x more profitable just do it and silently dump
131 2011-08-12 04:58:02 <RealSolid> it will buy you time
132 2011-08-12 04:58:33 <luke-jr> &
133 2011-08-12 04:58:33 <RealSolid> if you give miners a 25% bonus like they will care
134 2011-08-12 04:58:47 <luke-jr> RealSolid: I'm not sure you understand.
135 2011-08-12 04:58:59 <luke-jr> it would take 35 hours before we'd have any IXC
136 2011-08-12 04:59:08 <RealSolid> 35 hours?
137 2011-08-12 04:59:12 <luke-jr> and at that point, we would have 100% of all IXC
138 2011-08-12 04:59:24 <RealSolid> as soon as you point your pool to it, youll be getting ixc
139 2011-08-12 04:59:39 <luke-jr> RealSolid: that's not what I mean though
140 2011-08-12 04:59:52 <RealSolid> im saying, use a few hours of silent dumping to fund it
141 2011-08-12 04:59:58 <luke-jr> starting at block 2, we'd be building an alternate chain
142 2011-08-12 05:00:09 <RealSolid> because its 4-6x more profitable, you only need 2 hours of ixcoin mining to hit 12 hours of btc
143 2011-08-12 05:00:19 <luke-jr> it's not.
144 2011-08-12 05:00:27 <luke-jr> it's slightly more profitable.
145 2011-08-12 05:01:16 <RealSolid> well maybe not for you, but for me at least, im making 6-10x more right now
146 2011-08-12 05:01:24 <RealSolid> than comparible btc mining
147 2011-08-12 05:01:52 <RealSolid> about 2.4btc a day vs 0.33
148 2011-08-12 05:02:16 <RealSolid> at current prices, i actually made 6btc yesterday
149 2011-08-12 05:02:34 <RealSolid> in about 6 hours
150 2011-08-12 05:04:39 <RealSolid> course if a big pool went on there it might soak it all up
151 2011-08-12 05:05:02 <RealSolid> is eligius even that big? theres like over a Thash mining ixcoins
152 2011-08-12 05:05:08 <luke-jr> is there really?
153 2011-08-12 05:05:17 <RealSolid> last i checked
154 2011-08-12 05:05:20 <luke-jr> :|
155 2011-08-12 05:05:21 <RealSolid> thats 1/12th of btc network
156 2011-08-12 05:05:47 <RealSolid> why you think btc speed slowed so much recently
157 2011-08-12 05:05:55 <luke-jr> value drop
158 2011-08-12 05:06:23 <RealSolid> its been staying at 10 for a while, its not that
159 2011-08-12 05:06:27 <RealSolid> its people making more btc from ix
160 2011-08-12 05:06:44 <luke-jr> nah, it was $13 before the drop
161 2011-08-12 05:06:50 <RealSolid> which drop
162 2011-08-12 05:06:54 <luke-jr> people shut down when it first dipped under $10
163 2011-08-12 05:07:06 <RealSolid> bitcoinwatch says they came back
164 2011-08-12 05:07:20 <RealSolid> then went away again
165 2011-08-12 05:10:07 <gjs278> it was $13 for a really long time
166 2011-08-12 05:10:11 <gjs278> then $7 for about 2 days
167 2011-08-12 05:10:14 <gjs278> then back to 9-10
168 2011-08-12 05:10:24 <gjs278> but its definitely been $13 for much longer than $10
169 2011-08-12 05:10:32 <luke-jr> gjs278: rich enough to buy ixcoin's destruction?
170 2011-08-12 05:11:06 <gjs278> what the hell is this crap
171 2011-08-12 05:11:15 <gjs278> lol
172 2011-08-12 05:11:28 <gjs278> umm wow
173 2011-08-12 05:11:28 <luke-jr> gjs278: lame copyoff of bitcoin
174 2011-08-12 05:11:34 <luke-jr> it has no viability
175 2011-08-12 05:11:42 <luke-jr> but imo it'd be cool to kill it early
176 2011-08-12 05:11:45 <RealSolid> yet luke-jr is profiting
177 2011-08-12 05:11:46 <gjs278> yeah
178 2011-08-12 05:12:00 <gjs278> uhh when they are exchanngig that many btcs for coins yes I'd profit from that too
179 2011-08-12 05:12:05 <RealSolid> i love the irony
180 2011-08-12 05:12:18 <RealSolid> "yeah man it has no viability. hold on. SELLING IXCOINS AT 0.01BTC"
181 2011-08-12 05:12:34 <luke-jr> that just supports what I'm saying
182 2011-08-12 05:12:48 <luke-jr> nobody wants them
183 2011-08-12 05:12:56 <RealSolid> somebody does
184 2011-08-12 05:13:01 <RealSolid> the guy youre selling to :P
185 2011-08-12 05:13:03 <luke-jr> the author is buyign them
186 2011-08-12 05:13:09 <RealSolid> many of them
187 2011-08-12 05:13:13 <RealSolid> theres also other fools
188 2011-08-12 05:13:24 <RealSolid> read the forum for some guy blowing 60btc
189 2011-08-12 05:13:29 <gjs278> this is too funny
190 2011-08-12 05:13:43 <RealSolid> the thing i like about ixcoin is
191 2011-08-12 05:13:47 <RealSolid> it doesnt even try to improve upon btc
192 2011-08-12 05:14:02 <RealSolid> its just like, yeah ive been mining 500k coins already, its 96 per block
193 2011-08-12 05:14:08 <luke-jr> yep
194 2011-08-12 05:14:22 <forrestv> oh god
195 2011-08-12 05:14:30 <RealSolid> and people lap it up
196 2011-08-12 05:14:35 <RealSolid> no one to blame but ourselves
197 2011-08-12 05:14:42 <gjs278> have you traded your ixcoins to bitcoins yet?
198 2011-08-12 05:14:48 <RealSolid> yah
199 2011-08-12 05:14:51 <gjs278> wow
200 2011-08-12 05:14:54 <RealSolid> IT BE GOING CRAZY
201 2011-08-12 05:14:58 <forrestv> the reason that the target is encoded that way in namecoin is because the compacttarget in the genesis block was set like that .. 0x1c007fff
202 2011-08-12 05:14:58 <RealSolid> ive made like 20btc
203 2011-08-12 05:15:08 <gjs278> how long
204 2011-08-12 05:15:09 <RealSolid> when i usually only make 0.33 a day
205 2011-08-12 05:15:10 <gjs278> for 20
206 2011-08-12 05:15:15 <RealSolid> its almost 24 hours
207 2011-08-12 05:15:18 <gjs278> ok
208 2011-08-12 05:15:34 <RealSolid> youre too late now
209 2011-08-12 05:15:39 <gjs278> think so
210 2011-08-12 05:15:41 <RealSolid> all the fun was just after the exchange went up
211 2011-08-12 05:15:45 <gjs278> oh ok
212 2011-08-12 05:16:00 <RealSolid> and the developer came along with a 600btc buy wall
213 2011-08-12 05:16:09 <gjs278> ah
214 2011-08-12 05:16:19 <RealSolid> and it encouraged other profiteers
215 2011-08-12 05:16:41 <RealSolid> who are now crying on the forum about being bankrupt and not being able to move out of home
216 2011-08-12 05:17:25 <gjs278> I'll grab myself a few blocks "just in case" they ever start buying these
217 2011-08-12 05:17:33 <RealSolid> one rumour flying around is its mybitcoin slosh money
218 2011-08-12 05:18:28 <gjs278> I have to change the port on this beast to get it out of my bitcoind way
219 2011-08-12 05:19:50 <RealSolid> dont start mining
220 2011-08-12 05:48:06 <UukGoblin> hmmm [2068937.779267] bitcoind[6458] general protection ip:41169c sp:7f96d9ff1cf0 error:0 in bitcoind[400000+391000]
221 2011-08-12 05:50:37 <iscalar_> Hello there, is anybody here a admin or moderator on the bit coin wiki that I could talk to privately for a moment please?
222 2011-08-12 05:51:17 <lfm> something wrong with the wiki?
223 2011-08-12 05:52:12 <iscalar_> not at all
224 2011-08-12 05:52:46 <iscalar_> I offer people a free 10 step gudie to set up miners, and someone keeps removing it on me claiming its spam advertisements and the sites full of ads, when it literally has 2 ads, a banner, and a single side ad.
225 2011-08-12 05:53:12 <iscalar_> Hes now reffered me to the admins to get it removed because I put it back up and explained to him that it wasnt spam, but he refuses to even check the website to see ???_???
226 2011-08-12 05:54:04 <iscalar_> Don't want my site being removed from the wiki because some uninformed dude can't be bothered to load my webpage to check his outlandish claims >_< its a good site, it helps people, and its non profit, i mean, whats up with him =/
227 2011-08-12 05:54:29 <UukGoblin> 4 ads sounds like full indeed
228 2011-08-12 05:54:47 <UukGoblin> but if you're just putting a link to it... dunno, not my job
229 2011-08-12 05:55:14 <lfm> just put your 10 step guide in the wiki without a link then
230 2011-08-12 05:56:08 <lfm> if it is really free
231 2011-08-12 05:56:25 <UukGoblin> ha, great idea :->
232 2011-08-12 05:56:45 <iscalar_> well check for your self man ill query you the link, I feel proud to have such a popular website to be honest, as im sure you would, but I mean if you look at the page (ill query you it) then i'm sure you'll get what I mean =/
233 2011-08-12 05:56:59 <iscalar_> and its 2 ads, not 4 >_<
234 2011-08-12 05:57:05 <lfm> and you feel fulfilled by all the ad money?
235 2011-08-12 05:57:21 <iscalar_> haha what ad money
236 2011-08-12 05:57:27 <iscalar_> I offered to show the dude my ad revenue logs
237 2011-08-12 05:57:36 <iscalar_> its a non profit website
238 2011-08-12 05:58:15 <lfm> www.iscyspace.com ?
239 2011-08-12 05:58:24 <iscalar_> -_- i didnt think you could share links here
240 2011-08-12 05:58:26 <iscalar_> but yes, thats it.
241 2011-08-12 05:58:39 <iscalar_> I mean I even asked the dude to go check, see what hes unhappy with, and i'd gladly change it
242 2011-08-12 05:58:53 <lfm> ok I just went there and all I can see is the ads!
243 2011-08-12 05:58:56 <iscalar_> but he just went on saying its spam, i mean he originally removed it saying the guide didnt even exist, i mean, how hard is it to look at a front page O.o
244 2011-08-12 05:59:00 <iscalar_> ???_??? thats bs
245 2011-08-12 05:59:20 <iscalar_> What ads ...
246 2011-08-12 05:59:26 <lfm> is saz icsy space chat and the 10 lines of ads
247 2011-08-12 05:59:36 <iscalar_> what O.o
248 2011-08-12 05:59:40 <iscalar_> can you screenshot me it?
249 2011-08-12 06:00:04 <lfm> I had to scroll down to see the official bitcoin wiki
250 2011-08-12 06:00:33 <iscalar_> well ill link you to what I see, tell me if it matches up pelase
251 2011-08-12 06:00:39 <UukGoblin> iscalar_, perhaps you calling it "The official bit coin wiki!"[sic] doesn't help either
252 2011-08-12 06:00:45 <iscalar_> I just want a simple site peopel can go to to learn how to bit coin mine, im proud of my site.
253 2011-08-12 06:00:49 <iscalar_> No dude thats a link to the wiki
254 2011-08-12 06:00:51 <iscalar_> XD
255 2011-08-12 06:01:02 <iscalar_> probably a bit misleading, ill change it to "Link to the official bitcoin wiki"
256 2011-08-12 06:01:03 <UukGoblin> oh
257 2011-08-12 06:02:45 <iscalar_> uploading screeny to image shak now, lfm, is that really what you see, because the actual chat page has no ads at all
258 2011-08-12 06:02:52 <iscalar_> in fact im thinkign of removing it for the chats inactivity
259 2011-08-12 06:02:55 <lfm> ye god its advertizing capitol one credit. that like the sleaziest bank in north america!
260 2011-08-12 06:03:39 <iscalar_> ???_???
261 2011-08-12 06:03:59 <iscalar_> http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3423/iscy.png
262 2011-08-12 06:04:02 <iscalar_> There we go, thats what I see
263 2011-08-12 06:04:08 <UukGoblin> ... and then after restarting it: [2115010.051724] bitcoind[20447]: segfault at 39 ip 000000000041169c sp 00007f7c7b7fdcf0 error 4 in bitcoind[400000+391000]
264 2011-08-12 06:04:19 <iscalar_> oh thats because im editing the site right now
265 2011-08-12 06:04:28 <iscalar_> to make it apparent its a ilnk to the wiki and not the actual wiki
266 2011-08-12 06:04:54 <wumpus> UukGoblin: maybe try strarting it in gdb to get a stack trace
267 2011-08-12 06:05:21 <iscalar_> I have no idea what that means, im amateur man >_<
268 2011-08-12 06:05:28 <UukGoblin> wumpus, yeah, don't have time now, unfortunately
269 2011-08-12 06:07:05 <lfm> iscalar_: http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/Screenshot.png
270 2011-08-12 06:07:07 <iscalar_> But Uuk, seriously though, check the site now, tell me what you think, do those ads count really as "spam advertisements" ? and is the guide apparant on the front page?
271 2011-08-12 06:07:26 <iscalar_> Hmm lfm, thats really weird man =/
272 2011-08-12 06:07:36 <iscalar_> try reload now, i updated the home page
273 2011-08-12 06:08:25 <lfm> still the same except the chat link is gone
274 2011-08-12 06:09:24 <iscalar_> Hmm, must be a css error, its a shame i aint got a freakign clue how to fix that =/ what version of mozilla do you use?
275 2011-08-12 06:09:29 <iscalar_> firefox even
276 2011-08-12 06:09:30 <lfm> A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. You can stop the script now, or you can continue to see if the script will complete.
277 2011-08-12 06:09:51 <lfm> are you trying to hack us?
278 2011-08-12 06:09:58 <iscalar_> Ffs ???_??? no
279 2011-08-12 06:10:07 <iscalar_> I use www.bitcoinplus.com on the site
280 2011-08-12 06:10:29 <iscalar_> which is pathetic really because after this entire time i've gained like 0.01 bit coin from it, which they wanted as transaction fee anyway, asses.
281 2011-08-12 06:10:38 <iscalar_> the source is unprotected, feel free to check it.
282 2011-08-12 06:12:01 <UukGoblin> LOL
283 2011-08-12 06:12:15 <UukGoblin> iscalar_, gtfo
284 2011-08-12 06:12:16 <lfm> its firefox 3.6.18
285 2011-08-12 06:12:53 <Giel> ;;bc,stats
286 2011-08-12 06:12:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 140638 | Current Difficulty: 1888786.7053531 | Next Difficulty At Block: 141119 | Next Difficulty In: 481 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1830913.78022603
287 2011-08-12 06:13:04 <iscalar_> You know what guys, im genuinely asking for advice here, if you want me to show you screenshots of my bit coin plus account and my ad sense account, I'll gladly show you it, I'm not here to spam people
288 2011-08-12 06:13:11 <iscalar_> I just want a simple site with a mining guide, whats up with that . . .
289 2011-08-12 06:13:55 <lfm> ok so if thats all, then you dont need to have it in the wiki
290 2011-08-12 06:14:33 <UukGoblin> iscalar_, you're hiding stuff away from us, you didn't bloody mention the site mines bitcoins for you using users computers without their knowledge
291 2011-08-12 06:15:32 <lfm> And nor my bitcoin crashed, whats up with that?
292 2011-08-12 06:15:32 <UukGoblin> this is not only spam advertising, but also spam malware
293 2011-08-12 06:15:52 <lfm> now
294 2011-08-12 06:16:30 <lfm> UNKNOWN EXCEPTION
295 2011-08-12 06:16:34 <lfm> bitcoin in CMyApp::OnUnhandledException()
296 2011-08-12 06:17:22 <Diablo-D3> well this is interesting
297 2011-08-12 06:17:28 <Diablo-D3> the main core of the miner kernel
298 2011-08-12 06:17:41 <Diablo-D3> uses 19 registers
299 2011-08-12 06:18:36 <lfm> and now hes gone
300 2011-08-12 06:18:44 <Diablo-D3> wait I think I did something wrong
301 2011-08-12 06:19:04 <makomk> luke-jr: you can't fork the ixcoin block chain at height 2; it's got checkpoints every thousand blocks.
302 2011-08-12 06:20:29 <lfm> UukGoblin: geez hes got a lot of gall eh?
303 2011-08-12 06:22:10 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rf3c30f9 / lib/blockchainmanager.js : Refactoring: Move locator creating inside BlockChainDownload class. ... https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/f3c30f908b85602923465fe4addb0324f4d2190b
304 2011-08-12 06:22:49 <UukGoblin> lfm, well I told him to gtfo, at least he listens to orders...
305 2011-08-12 06:23:00 <Diablo-D3> wow
306 2011-08-12 06:23:05 <Diablo-D3> phatk's kernel is EXTREMELY bad
307 2011-08-12 06:23:33 <Diablo-D3> his array is just too goddamned big
308 2011-08-12 06:23:55 <Diablo-D3> assuming I didnt do this wrong, it really is 19 registers used at max.
309 2011-08-12 06:24:27 <Diablo-D3> my perl script is lol
310 2011-08-12 06:25:00 <Diablo-D3> it makes each assign (ie, every line in the main body of the kernel) into a new array index
311 2011-08-12 06:25:06 <Diablo-D3> and then renames all the future uses
312 2011-08-12 06:25:08 <iscalar> Damn blue screens ???_???
313 2011-08-12 06:25:19 <gjs278> I crashed my bitcoin because I xfsrestored into my / with old db files while bitcoind was running
314 2011-08-12 06:25:23 <Diablo-D3> including ZW, ZV, and Zt1 uses
315 2011-08-12 06:25:35 <lfm> UukGoblin: or maybe not
316 2011-08-12 06:25:36 <Diablo-D3> it also turns foo += into foo = foo +
317 2011-08-12 06:25:36 <gjs278> like I just dropped in day old blockchain crap and bitcoind exploded
318 2011-08-12 06:25:52 <Diablo-D3> so, thats 450 some assigns
319 2011-08-12 06:26:19 <UukGoblin> lfm, others: let me know if he needs a kick, I'm off to do some work
320 2011-08-12 06:26:27 <UukGoblin> (but I'll be checking PM occasionally)
321 2011-08-12 06:26:33 <Diablo-D3> then I wrote more code that counts the index of last mention of that unique assign
322 2011-08-12 06:26:59 <Diablo-D3> then I wrote more code that holds registers open if the last use of that register hasnt been last used yet
323 2011-08-12 06:27:03 <Giel> does anyone still use the builtin CPU miner in the bitcoin client?
324 2011-08-12 06:27:09 <Diablo-D3> Giel: no.
325 2011-08-12 06:27:23 <iscalar> A few people do, but only if their graphic card is practically ancient.
326 2011-08-12 06:27:29 <Diablo-D3> the part of the code that produces the 450 some assigns produces working code
327 2011-08-12 06:27:32 <Diablo-D3> I tested it in DM, it works
328 2011-08-12 06:27:34 <Giel> in that case I think that CPU miner should be ditched
329 2011-08-12 06:27:44 <iscalar> Mhash from cpu mining is like literally 1-5% of what a decent gpu could provide.
330 2011-08-12 06:27:44 <UukGoblin> iscalar, private messaging people randomly is very bad netiquette
331 2011-08-12 06:27:49 <Diablo-D3> Giel: Ive already recommended this multiple times
332 2011-08-12 06:27:54 <Giel> less code to contain bugs...
333 2011-08-12 06:27:54 <iscalar> I apologize Uuk, im kinda new to all of this.
334 2011-08-12 06:28:07 <Giel> Diablo-D3: what was the response ?
335 2011-08-12 06:28:10 <Diablo-D3> Giel: AND we have cpu miners that are more efficient
336 2011-08-12 06:28:15 <lfm> iscalar: not new enuf it seems
337 2011-08-12 06:28:17 <Diablo-D3> the response was nothing, since no one gives a fuck
338 2011-08-12 06:28:24 <iscalar> I dont want to cause a problem, thus why i put it in private, the discussion about the site is over and I wont bother you any more with it if your not interested in the pm.
339 2011-08-12 06:28:29 <Giel> Diablo-D3: ever submitted a patch/pull req?
340 2011-08-12 06:28:34 <Diablo-D3> Giel: I aint doing it
341 2011-08-12 06:28:39 <Diablo-D3> I already do enough for the bitcoin world
342 2011-08-12 06:28:44 <UukGoblin> iscalar, things wrong with your site, to state them again: 1. it has alignment problems, learn to use css properly, 2. it steals people's computing power without their knowledge or consent, 3. it displays a lot of ads
343 2011-08-12 06:28:49 <UukGoblin> now, I'm off
344 2011-08-12 06:29:08 <Giel> Diablo-D3: no problem, was just asking if I'd do duplicate work when *I* would submit such a patch...
345 2011-08-12 06:29:16 <iscalar> i dont get the whole lots of ads thing with only 2 ads, but thanks for answering me, ill fix said problems, thats all I asked.
346 2011-08-12 06:29:17 <Diablo-D3> submit the patch
347 2011-08-12 06:29:21 <Diablo-D3> it'll probably get merged
348 2011-08-12 06:29:32 <gjs278> I think patches like that have been submitted
349 2011-08-12 06:29:35 <Diablo-D3> okay so, back to my thing.... so, I looked at the register assignment numbers
350 2011-08-12 06:29:37 <Diablo-D3> they look right
351 2011-08-12 06:29:37 <gjs278> but they're afraid to remove
352 2011-08-12 06:30:12 <Diablo-D3> so if they ARE right
353 2011-08-12 06:30:14 <iscalar> Oh people, genuine question, For nvidia graphic cards, CUDA is the more appropriate miner at the moment, correct?
354 2011-08-12 06:30:15 <Diablo-D3> holy damn.
355 2011-08-12 06:30:23 <Diablo-D3> iscalar: no, DiabloMiner is.
356 2011-08-12 06:30:37 <iscalar> No I mean, the TYPE of miner, not mining client.
357 2011-08-12 06:30:44 <iscalar> Cuda as compared to opencl
358 2011-08-12 06:30:46 <lfm> iscalar: for nvidia card, ati card are the more appropriate miner now.
359 2011-08-12 06:30:50 <gjs278> opencl will work on either
360 2011-08-12 06:30:51 <Diablo-D3> diablominer is an opencl miner.
361 2011-08-12 06:30:51 <edcba> Diablo-D3: that seems a bit biased :)
362 2011-08-12 06:31:04 <Diablo-D3> edcba: not really, there is one cuda miner, its slower than everything else.
363 2011-08-12 06:31:04 <iscalar> I know, I use ati, I have a person asking for support and I just wanted to check my facts =]
364 2011-08-12 06:31:29 <lfm> tell him to join this chat
365 2011-08-12 06:31:36 <gjs278> yeah this chat owns
366 2011-08-12 06:31:45 <iscalar> I use guiminer personally, lot more simple to set up, diablo miner sounds interesting though, got a link I could snoop out man? if its on par with GUI miner i'll gladly offer it as a alternative miner link on my stie ^-^
367 2011-08-12 06:31:56 <gjs278> sometimes when I google bitcoin problems, I see this channel log, and then I see myself talking
368 2011-08-12 06:32:05 <gjs278> and I'm talking like lines away from the problem I'm experiencing
369 2011-08-12 06:32:06 <iscalar> He's on the phone to me dude, hes one of my best friends :P
370 2011-08-12 06:32:09 <gjs278> if only I paid attention
371 2011-08-12 06:32:19 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: lol
372 2011-08-12 06:32:24 <iscalar> trying to get him set up with mining pools but he couldnt connect on opencl
373 2011-08-12 06:32:37 <lfm> iscalar: well does he know how to use irc?
374 2011-08-12 06:33:06 <iscalar> I suppose he does, but he's got it working now, guiminer has a in built cuda miner
375 2011-08-12 06:33:15 <iscalar> only 40 mhash, which is sad cause his graphic cards awesome, just nvidia
376 2011-08-12 06:33:27 <iscalar> i mean i have a worse card and im only pulling in 200 =/
377 2011-08-12 06:33:28 <Diablo-D3> iscalar: yes, its that cuda miner, its crap
378 2011-08-12 06:33:29 <lfm> NVIDIA != AWSOME
379 2011-08-12 06:33:49 <lfm> dam caps lock
380 2011-08-12 06:33:56 <edcba> anyway there are already a lot of stats about cards in forum
381 2011-08-12 06:33:57 <iscalar> Nvidia's a good graphic card designer, just poopy when it comes to opencl support
382 2011-08-12 06:34:38 <lfm> not just opencl, ati kicks their ass even if they use their own cuda
383 2011-08-12 06:34:50 <iscalar> I know, thats why I use ati my self personally XD
384 2011-08-12 06:35:11 <iscalar> only a radeon HD 5700, but it does its job =]
385 2011-08-12 06:35:25 <gjs278> like a week before I found out about bitcoin I was joking wtih my friends on how I would never pay more than $100 for a graphics card
386 2011-08-12 06:36:11 <iscalar> Haha
387 2011-08-12 06:36:13 <lfm> so this friend of yours - is he just an imaginary freind so you can write more of our advice in your spammy web pages?
388 2011-08-12 06:36:43 <iscalar> Lfm, there is no need to be so hostile, i've just removed bit coin plus and the only ads remaining are 2 google ads which i use to keep the site running, what the hell is your problem
389 2011-08-12 06:36:52 <iscalar> and no, he's not imaginary actually, i'll get him on irc if need be
390 2011-08-12 06:37:58 <lfm> using you web page to try to do javascript mining for your own bitcoins on our computers is a slimey thing to do.
391 2011-08-12 06:38:49 <iscalar> Which is why i just removed the script
392 2011-08-12 06:38:51 <iscalar> go check
393 2011-08-12 06:39:10 <iscalar> Im being serious abotu bettering the site, I was just lookign for ways to make it self sustainable, that one failed, and thus it's been removed, im not a bad guy man =/
394 2011-08-12 06:39:11 <gjs278> what if he checks and it's still cached there and he mines a block for you
395 2011-08-12 06:39:13 <lfm> You couldnt get me to go back yopu your site for 1000BTC
396 2011-08-12 06:39:55 <iscalar> Then don't, but the scripts removed and thats the end of it really, stop being so hostile please because all I've done is asked for advice, and actually listened to it, regardless of your repeated insults.
397 2011-08-12 06:40:26 <lfm> you earned my insults if you ask me.
398 2011-08-12 06:41:00 <iscalar> You know what, if you want to argue, take it to private, the public chat is not the place us to get heated with eachover as I'm sure you'll agree =/
399 2011-08-12 06:41:27 <lfm> yes, you dont want newbies seeing what a slimey type you are
400 2011-08-12 06:41:42 <iscalar> For christ sake im not slimey
401 2011-08-12 06:41:55 <iscalar> 2 ads on a site, all used with no profit to me, how the hell is that slimey.
402 2011-08-12 06:41:58 <lfm> I thot we already established that
403 2011-08-12 06:42:35 <lfm> the bitcoin mining javascript was the slimey part. ads I could live with
404 2011-08-12 06:42:36 <iscalar> Ill query you if you wish to carry on, your the one whos starting an argument, i just want to sit here and talk about bc man, i said previously the site discussion was over and you braught it up again.
405 2011-08-12 06:42:52 <iscalar> The irony of it is when Uuk checks, he'll probably kick ME for this when your the one who braught it up again ???_???
406 2011-08-12 06:43:13 <lfm> aw, yes, very ironic
407 2011-08-12 06:45:25 <iscalar> You know what Lfm, im not a bad guy, im bending over backwards to make my site better for the user, I came here asking advice on how to do that, and your giving me crap for it, it's uncalled for plain and simple.
408 2011-08-12 06:45:26 <lfm> and uuk was the one who already told you once to gtfo
409 2011-08-12 06:45:45 <iscalar> Why, for asking for advice?
410 2011-08-12 06:45:52 <lfm> bending over backward to not look slimey as you are
411 2011-08-12 06:45:57 <iscalar> I even sent the link privately, so you cant claim i was trying to advertise or anything
412 2011-08-12 06:47:02 <iscalar> Anyway, away from here, private if you wish to talk to me, this discussion is for bit coin development, not arguments can we at least both be adults in THAT respect.
413 2011-08-12 06:47:11 <lfm> you came here looking for a link in the bitcoin wiki and complaining they repeatedly kicked you out.
414 2011-08-12 06:48:37 <iscalar> No O.o
415 2011-08-12 06:48:46 <iscalar> copy the chat log
416 2011-08-12 06:49:18 <iscalar> I said a USER removed my link claiming my guide didnt exist and my site was full of ads, I asked if any admin was here so they could check the site out and give me advice accordingly and see what they think, why am I the bad guy here.
417 2011-08-12 06:49:33 <iscalar> I mean i'm trying to take it to private to you, but your refusing to aknowledge that.
418 2011-08-12 06:49:48 <gjs278> well
419 2011-08-12 06:49:51 <gjs278> if you're on a wiki
420 2011-08-12 06:49:56 <gjs278> the best thing to do is get into an edit war
421 2011-08-12 06:50:05 <lfm> you are right, I have no interest in taking it private. I want everyone to know what you did
422 2011-08-12 06:50:26 <iscalar> Then tell them the truth and copy the chat over.
423 2011-08-12 06:50:27 <gjs278> I did about 90 edits back and forth with a guy because he didn't want to list James Nintendo Nerd as a notable youtube celebrity
424 2011-08-12 06:50:31 <gjs278> fuck that guy
425 2011-08-12 06:50:39 <iscalar> lol gjs :34
426 2011-08-12 06:50:43 <iscalar> :3*
427 2011-08-12 06:52:03 <iscalar> I mean, I even stopped talking about my siet and asked a general mining question, and you STILL tried to argue. With a non profit website, now with no bitcoin miner (which uuk obviously didnt realise WAS reffered to on the webpage) with literally 2 advertisements on it (small ones too), I hardly see how I'm "slimy" especially when i come on asking for advice to make it better for users, in fact thats the opposite of slimy
428 2011-08-12 06:52:22 <lfm> oh his site is www.iscyspace.com and if you want to get hacked, you can check it out.
429 2011-08-12 06:52:51 <iscalar> oh yeah, it'll ultra hack your computer and steal all your money as well as bang your girlfriend and shoot your dog, it's THAT evil!
430 2011-08-12 06:54:15 <iscalar> or wait, it's literally a site with 2 ads that used bit coin plus (with notice to the player and a start/stop button, as well as a half share if the user registered their bit coin account) with a guide on how to start mining.
431 2011-08-12 06:54:24 <lfm> well, I am glad I don't have a dog!
432 2011-08-12 06:55:12 <UukGoblin> it starts stealing my CPU power and then has a button somewhere that I need to read up about to click to disable it? dude
433 2011-08-12 06:55:27 <iscalar> Uuk
434 2011-08-12 06:55:28 <iscalar> I removed it
435 2011-08-12 06:55:40 <iscalar> like
436 2011-08-12 06:55:51 <iscalar> the second you said it wasnt really ethical (or implied even)
437 2011-08-12 06:55:56 <UukGoblin> ok
438 2011-08-12 06:56:02 <lfm> like it is much better hidden now, you wont find it
439 2011-08-12 06:56:18 <iscalar> yeah, because it doesnt exist for christ sake.
440 2011-08-12 06:56:39 <UukGoblin> well, I'd recommend a good xhtml/css course to you, but I don't know any as I don't like web design
441 2011-08-12 06:57:02 <UukGoblin> don't like doing web design, that is
442 2011-08-12 06:57:14 <iscalar> Uuk, please, I dont want to make a scene, in fact i've been trying to do the opposite, lfm braught the argument up again when I asked a completely unrelated question, if you have the time, can I quickly talk to you in private please? if your to busy then I guess I can leave it but, I just dont like to be made out to be some scamming con artist here when im not =[
443 2011-08-12 06:57:44 <iscalar> And yeah, The css is fine on google chrome and firefox 5, but its hand written so its buggy as hell, I could do with a course >_<
444 2011-08-12 06:58:33 <UukGoblin> nope, I don't have time to test your site, sorry
445 2011-08-12 06:58:44 <iscalar> ... this is exactly what im talking about
446 2011-08-12 06:58:49 <iscalar> Thats not what I was going to ask you
447 2011-08-12 06:59:01 <iscalar> and you wouldn't even give me 5 seconds to even explain what was up =/
448 2011-08-12 07:00:28 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Stefan Thomas master * rd79f9a9 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Minor fixes. - http://bit.ly/pPQTYF https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui/commit/d79f9a9a6f54cc1c18de42f0c91244cbce140967
449 2011-08-12 07:00:29 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Stefan Thomas master * r036794a / (34 files in 13 dirs): Moved third party scripts to scripts/vendor. - http://bit.ly/nq7C6d https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui/commit/036794ac064adf5c4e23eca013ca2927f0613a2c
450 2011-08-12 07:01:26 <iscalar> See, theres 4 advertisements there, and thats in the very chat your condemming me for having 2 ads in ???_???
451 2011-08-12 07:03:00 <iscalar> You know what, screw it, it's obvious you guys are ignorant and childish enough as it is and any form of civilised conversation with you is as useful as a discussion on the philosophical probabilties of unified conciousness, with a fish.
452 2011-08-12 07:05:49 <iscalar> I come here asking for advice and you guys act like im the freaking anti christ or something, I've helped thousands of people get into bit coin mining, free, offer support, free, and spend my bit coins on charity, iscyspace, or my hidden little passion, minecraft, what have YOU done for the bitcoin community LFM, you fucking low life white trash piece of junk, and Uuk, I'd have expected more maturity from you, but you genuinely ga
453 2011-08-12 07:05:57 <vegard> hi
454 2011-08-12 07:06:05 <iscalar> r, so, thanks, and at the same time, go screw your self, have a nice day.
455 2011-08-12 07:12:06 <iscalar> Welcome AStove
456 2011-08-12 07:12:18 <AStove> Hi..
457 2011-08-12 07:13:26 <vegard> iscalar: where are the 4 advertisements?
458 2011-08-12 07:14:44 <vegard> and your rant got chopped off. what I see is this: "[...] but you genuinely ga" <next line> "r, so thanks, and at the same time, go screw your self, have a nice day."
459 2011-08-12 07:14:55 <iscalar> bit.ly links, mistakenly thought they were similiar to link bucks links, I apologise.
460 2011-08-12 07:14:58 <iscalar> Aah, I see.
461 2011-08-12 07:15:07 <iscalar> e me little bits of advice, albeit in a conceited, horrid and sarcastic manne is what your missing.
462 2011-08-12 07:15:56 <vegard> did you try the w3 validators for html and css?
463 2011-08-12 07:16:24 <vegard> I think they are really useful.
464 2011-08-12 07:16:34 <iscalar> But yeah, basically the sitch is I came on here asking for advice on how to make my site better for bit coin users, asking if someone could check it (link shared over private convo, then LFM put it in public) and see if they think so I could approve it accoridngly. They then started ranting because theres 2 google ads and a bitcoinplus ap, the latter of which has been removed and the first of which is used to pay for the site upke
465 2011-08-12 07:16:43 <iscalar> But no I havn't, have you got a link I could use, that sounds really helpful, thankyou ^-^
466 2011-08-12 07:17:10 <vegard> "[...] which is used to pay for the site upke" <end of line>
467 2011-08-12 07:17:49 <iscalar> ep ???_??? [10:16] <iscalar> But no I havn't, have you got a link I could use, that sounds really helpful, thankyou ^-^
468 2011-08-12 07:18:03 <vegard> I got that one :)
469 2011-08-12 07:18:08 <iscalar> Aah, awesome ^-^
470 2011-08-12 07:18:45 <iscalar> But yeah I mean, they acting hostile so I even said lets not talk about it any more, asked a completely unrelated question to do with mining, then LFM was like OMG is that so you can put more info on your spammy website!, like, wtf ???_??? moron he is, he is moron.
471 2011-08-12 07:19:07 <iscalar> But yeah, this w3 validator sounds cool ^-^
472 2011-08-12 07:19:20 <vegard> did you find it?
473 2011-08-12 07:19:31 <iscalar> I need to learn css better, it works great with google chrome, okayish with IE, and poop with Firefox pre the most recent link.
474 2011-08-12 07:19:42 <iscalar> No I'll google for w3 validator now =]
475 2011-08-12 07:19:46 <vegard> well, the reason they were acting hostile is that you put a bitcoin js miner on the site
476 2011-08-12 07:20:04 <vegard> it comes across as dishonest
477 2011-08-12 07:20:05 <edcba> js miner lol
478 2011-08-12 07:20:25 <iscalar> Well they were hostile before they even knew about that.
479 2011-08-12 07:20:25 <vegard> they probably thought you were trolling them
480 2011-08-12 07:20:26 <edcba> won't get many bitcoins from that
481 2011-08-12 07:20:30 <edcba> unless you are called google
482 2011-08-12 07:20:33 <iscalar> I know, thus why its removed.
483 2011-08-12 07:21:06 <iscalar> Plus the fact that it was stated openly on the webpage that there was a js miner there =/
484 2011-08-12 07:21:13 <iscalar> and a button to stop it, that wasnt really hidden.
485 2011-08-12 07:22:02 <iscalar> But meh, its fully removed now, I just want to run a simple site for people to learn mining from, seems like everyone is against that simply because of 2 google adsense ads that I use to pay for said site >_< according to them 2 small ads counts as a spam advertisement site, but meh, theres no arguing with ignorance like.
486 2011-08-12 07:23:14 <iscalar> Hey that w3 validators awesome O.o cheers dude
487 2011-08-12 07:23:49 <vegard> why not make it 1 ad?
488 2011-08-12 07:24:28 <iscalar> Well it was, for a good month, the second ones just a small one next to the page, just wasn't making enoguh money to accomodate 60 hits a month >_<
489 2011-08-12 07:24:41 <iscalar> I mean its still being payed out of my pocket, i cant even take any adsense money till it hits 60 pound
490 2011-08-12 07:24:50 <iscalar> and after 2 months, im at about 20 so, long way to go XD
491 2011-08-12 07:25:19 <iscalar> I mean its a non profit website, no pop ups or anything, with ads that fit the colour scheme, I just dont get why people get so up in arms about it.
492 2011-08-12 07:26:41 <edcba> 20 pounds in 2 months ?
493 2011-08-12 07:26:48 <edcba> with a shitty site like that ?
494 2011-08-12 07:26:56 <Giel> edcba: 20 stone ;-)
495 2011-08-12 07:27:01 <iscalar> have you even SEEn the site edcba ???_???
496 2011-08-12 07:27:06 <Giel> or kg...
497 2011-08-12 07:27:22 <edcba> yes
498 2011-08-12 07:27:23 <iscalar> and yes, but I can't even take it out till it hits 60, which is obviously a long way away XD
499 2011-08-12 07:27:33 <edcba> the thing with css all wrond
500 2011-08-12 07:27:35 <edcba> wrong
501 2011-08-12 07:27:41 <iscalar> and even if i did take it out, id just buy a year or twos hosting with it.
502 2011-08-12 07:27:54 <vegard> but you're not supposed to make money on websites
503 2011-08-12 07:27:58 <edcba> and with more legal thing than informating
504 2011-08-12 07:27:59 <iscalar> Mind if I ask what browser you use edcba?
505 2011-08-12 07:28:00 <edcba> information
506 2011-08-12 07:28:04 <edcba> opera
507 2011-08-12 07:28:18 <edcba> without js enabled :)
508 2011-08-12 07:28:28 <iscalar> I make money from pay per click ads, so far no moneys touched my pocket, google still has it all, probably will do for 3-4 months, and then it wil lliterally just pay for some more upkeep.
509 2011-08-12 07:28:41 <iscalar> hmm, well the only JS on it atm is the google ads i believe
510 2011-08-12 07:29:08 <iscalar> but i realise the css is messed up, i just dont really know css so not sure what to do >_< had to get my friend help me code it, and hes as amateur as the most so, you can see were that got me lol
511 2011-08-12 07:31:00 <iscalar> Opera, hmm, never thought about that one, you on a mobile device or something? or just generally use opera? =] had nice experiences with it on mobile aps my self, tis a handy little browser
512 2011-08-12 07:31:41 <iscalar> w3 validator found no errors in the css O.o wth
513 2011-08-12 07:32:14 <eps> it can be valid css and not look very nice
514 2011-08-12 07:32:36 <eps> but really css isn't that hard
515 2011-08-12 07:32:48 <eps> if you are really struggling try a css framework
516 2011-08-12 07:33:27 <eps> they usually have had time spent on them to support all the browsers
517 2011-08-12 07:34:09 <vegard> iscalar: why don't you just put your tutorial on the bitcoin wiki?
518 2011-08-12 07:34:19 <iscalar> Hmm, its not that, when i use chrome it works great, when I use IE it works fine apart from the background colour being a different shade (bit random I know), but firefox users seem to be getting quite a lot of formatting errors, makes the page look really messed up.
519 2011-08-12 07:34:58 <iscalar> Because I'm not gonna lie vegard, im proud of my site, I mean, if I make no money from it and i'm helping people, I like the idea of people deliberately coming to my site to learn how to mine, makes me happy and gives me something to do as a hobby, which Im certain you could understand.
520 2011-08-12 07:35:32 <vegard> you can be proud of the tutorial that you put on the bitcoin wiki and you'd be helping people
521 2011-08-12 07:37:02 <iscalar> But I'm helping people and can say yay i have a website that gets 60k hits, and have more direct imput to it, im planning of making it a full on guide site with chat, common problems, support, bit coin mining news, graphic card comparisons, etc etc, it's just in its infancy stages at the moment.
522 2011-08-12 07:37:09 <vegard> in a sense you're asking to be featured on the bitcoin wiki without paying for it -- and then you're making money by displaying ads on your own website
523 2011-08-12 07:37:33 <iscalar> I mean ti was going fine until a user (not staff) removed it from the wiki saying the guide didnt exist . . . which was odd because the guides quite blatently there on the front page.
524 2011-08-12 07:38:08 <iscalar> Well thats the point though, im not making money from it.
525 2011-08-12 07:38:18 <iscalar> its non profit
526 2011-08-12 07:38:34 <iscalar> its literally to keep the site upkeep, and so far, not a single pennys actually been put in my bank accoutn from it
527 2011-08-12 07:38:45 <iscalar> nor a bit cent, cause the bitcoinplus ap is a bit rubbish really
528 2011-08-12 07:39:18 <eps> javascript mining can't compete with GPU miners?, say it aint so!
529 2011-08-12 07:39:32 <iscalar> I mean, I spent the time to make the guide get the links design the site and pay a monthly fee to keep it up, surely you can agree that 2 google ads is a fair trade off for that, they only make money if they interest people anyway.
530 2011-08-12 07:39:43 <iscalar> I know right eps XD thus why its removed now, bitcoinplus sucks
531 2011-08-12 07:41:16 <iscalar> plus the money just means i dont have to pay the monthly fee for a while, it's not exactly unreasonable in my eyes, honestly speaking do you think its unreasonable?
532 2011-08-12 07:41:53 <vegard> if you put your tutorial on the bitcoin wiki, the users wouldn't need to see any ads at all
533 2011-08-12 07:42:09 <vegard> which is clearly better for the users.
534 2011-08-12 07:42:25 <iscalar> yes, but then my hobby basically dissapears and I cant update the website to make it what its supposed to be, as I want it to be a hell of a lot more than a simple guide
535 2011-08-12 07:42:40 <vegard> you can still work on your website.
536 2011-08-12 07:42:44 <iscalar> I want it to be a full on mining discussion and support website, as i said, its just in its infancy stages atm.
537 2011-08-12 07:42:58 <vegard> nothing is preventing you from working on your website
538 2011-08-12 07:43:07 <eps> you could have the guide on both your site and the wiki
539 2011-08-12 07:43:29 <eps> there problem solved
540 2011-08-12 07:43:38 <iscalar> But then i'd  basically have a site thats usefless cause all the info to the dot would be on the site i get my traffic from O.o
541 2011-08-12 07:43:49 <eps> now to tackle the perpetual motion machine
542 2011-08-12 07:44:00 <iscalar> It must invovle magnets
543 2011-08-12 07:44:01 <iscalar> :P
544 2011-08-12 07:44:23 <iscalar> Aah thermodynamics, how I hated you in university so much
545 2011-08-12 07:47:31 <iscalar> I mean i get about 98% of my traffic from the wiki, surely you guys could understand that I take pride in my site, it doesnt cause any problems to anyone, and its not like people seeing 2 ads is gonna ruin the experience for them or anything, personally i dont understand what the big deal is, i dont make money from it, nor do i plan to, nor do i want to really, I have a job that does that for me, its just a hobby, and I like my ho
546 2011-08-12 07:48:02 <iscalar> when for 1 click everyone's happy, plus i'd have to make a common problem pages on the wiki and offer my email for support over there, otherwise it wouldnt really be the full thing >_<
547 2011-08-12 07:48:17 <vegard> "[...] and I like my ho" <end of line> "when for 1 click [...]"
548 2011-08-12 07:49:17 <vegard> by the way, I also have a bitcoin-related hobby website that is in its infancy stage :)
549 2011-08-12 07:50:57 <iscalar> bby, but what good is it if im only getting a couple of hundred people a month when i take pride in helping thousands set up their miner.
550 2011-08-12 07:51:58 <iscalar> I mean like, it makes no difference to people were they learn it, as long as its easy to follow and access, I like having the recognition for showing people how to do it, iscyspace lets me get that via reputation for the site, if its simply on the wiki nobody will know that it's me who's helped them and it makes my contribution feel worthless, albeit its simplicity i did put a lot of time behind it.
551 2011-08-12 07:52:47 <vegard> you want fame and glory.
552 2011-08-12 07:52:48 <iscalar> well, not worthless per se, it does help people, just I like the recognition for helping them im not going to lie, and to be honest, im not ashamed of that =]
553 2011-08-12 07:52:59 <iscalar> Fame and glory XD not really.
554 2011-08-12 07:53:05 <iscalar> I just want people to know its me who's helped them
555 2011-08-12 07:53:12 <iscalar> not to be some bit shit in the bit coin community or something
556 2011-08-12 07:54:53 <iscalar> I just like the ring of people saying  "oh you wanna learn to mine bit coins? I know a pretty cool site for that", because the guides offered else were are so technical and un-user friendly, I want people to know that I realised that there was a need for a simpler guide, so I gave them it, just because its not hosted on the wiki doesnt necassarily make it bad, nor does making it accessable from the wiki make it bad either,
557 2011-08-12 07:55:25 <iscalar> I mean my largest "ad" on the site (which i dont make money from because its a link i made my self) is for the bit coin wiki, thats what I do to repay them for the traffic. which i think is fair to be honest.
558 2011-08-12 07:56:17 <vegard> you need to start typing shorter lines
559 2011-08-12 07:56:21 <vegard> half of them get chopped off
560 2011-08-12 07:56:26 <iscalar> Yeah, bad habit of mine, I know >_<
561 2011-08-12 07:57:03 <vegard> "[...] nor does making it accessable from the wiki make it bad either," <end of line> "I mean my largest [...]"
562 2011-08-12 07:57:10 <iscalar> Basically, all im really saying is, ive gone through the time and effort to make all of this, why should I release it anonymously like its shameful to do otherwise, theres guides on the wiki, their just way to technical for some people.
563 2011-08-12 07:57:15 <iscalar> kk ill copy now hang on
564 2011-08-12 07:57:16 <gjs278> wow
565 2011-08-12 07:57:21 <gjs278> I leave to go watch king of the hill for an hour
566 2011-08-12 07:57:24 <gjs278> and this is still going on
567 2011-08-12 07:57:47 <iscalar> "ad" on the site (which i dont make money from because its a link i made my self) is for the bit coin wiki, thats what I do to repay them for the traffic. which i think is fair to be honest.
568 2011-08-12 07:58:04 <iscalar> Oh no, were not arguing, were literally just discussing now, vegards a pretty cool guy
569 2011-08-12 07:58:13 <iscalar> helpful too ^-^
570 2011-08-12 07:58:18 <iscalar> shame ircs dont have a rep system XD
571 2011-08-12 07:59:28 <lfm> well they do, kinda, informally
572 2011-08-12 08:00:02 <iscalar> Reputation between people in general, or an actual system lfm O.o ?
573 2011-08-12 08:00:22 <edcba> i don't see how that could work
574 2011-08-12 08:00:32 <edcba> rep is different from person to person
575 2011-08-12 08:00:41 <iscalar> I know right, thats what im thinking.
576 2011-08-12 08:01:12 <lfm> edcba: he'd like it cuz then he could game it.
577 2011-08-12 08:01:16 <iscalar> So if theres a system for it, i'll gladly rep veg, his comments are thoughtful and actually make me think, also has given me a few ideas for the site to make it a bit nicer for people, plus that w3 validator rocks.
578 2011-08-12 08:01:27 <iscalar> ???_??? Sigh, Lfm, child.
579 2011-08-12 08:01:44 <lfm> hehe
580 2011-08-12 08:02:18 <iscalar> randomly out of context, how did you guys find out about bit coin? just randomly or?
581 2011-08-12 08:02:31 <lfm> /.
582 2011-08-12 08:02:39 <edcba> /.
583 2011-08-12 08:02:45 <iscalar> /,   . . . ?
584 2011-08-12 08:02:55 <iscalar> / . even lol, fail.
585 2011-08-12 08:03:01 <iscalar> ???_??? fail harder, nvm.
586 2011-08-12 08:03:24 <edcba> slashdot
587 2011-08-12 08:03:51 <iscalar> Ooh, of course.
588 2011-08-12 08:04:07 <iscalar> Cool, cryptocurrency searching, nice phedny =]
589 2011-08-12 08:04:34 <iscalar> I found a minecraft site that accepted server hosting through bit coins, im a fanatic whos been playing since 09 so, peaked my interest :3
590 2011-08-12 08:04:41 <phedny_> iscalar: well, I've learned Chaum double-spending prevention in a lecture and I was looking for related stuff to work on in a Master thesis :)
591 2011-08-12 08:05:06 <shadders> luke-jr: Diablo-D3: anyone-else:  anyone can tell me if noncerange is in common use atm?
592 2011-08-12 08:05:07 <eps> i wish bitcoin had been around 10 years ago when i was at uni
593 2011-08-12 08:05:30 <eps> would have been fascinating to have the time to study it in great detail
594 2011-08-12 08:05:33 <iscalar> That sounds really interesting, I was thinking of writing a paper in general about the uses of a currency system without a central administration, or in this case, server.
595 2011-08-12 08:05:49 <phedny_> eps: if you really want to, wouldn't you be able to make time to study it?
596 2011-08-12 08:05:52 <iscalar> I know right, makes you think what the future holds.
597 2011-08-12 08:06:06 <lfm> shadders: I dont think so
598 2011-08-12 08:06:36 <iscalar> So Phedny, what do you study in uni bro?
599 2011-08-12 08:06:43 <shadders> is it waiting for miner implementation or is it not even implemented in pushpool yet?
600 2011-08-12 08:06:51 <phedny_> iscalar: I'm doing an information security Master
601 2011-08-12 08:06:57 <eps> phedny_: i have a lot of things i would like to do if i had the time
602 2011-08-12 08:07:15 <lfm> shadders: I think the pools have gone beyond it
603 2011-08-12 08:07:16 <UukGoblin> phedny_, cool, what's "Chaum" double spending?
604 2011-08-12 08:07:29 <iscalar> Sounds very cool phedny ^-^
605 2011-08-12 08:07:29 <UukGoblin> phedny_, is it like the bitcoin blockchain, or something different?
606 2011-08-12 08:07:50 <shadders> lfm: what you mean 'gone beyond it'?  Worked something better?
607 2011-08-12 08:08:05 <phedny_> UukGoblin: it's a cryptocurrency with a central issuer, such that it guarantees anynomity, unless you double spend a coin
608 2011-08-12 08:08:14 <shadders> *worked out something better
609 2011-08-12 08:08:30 <phedny_> UukGoblin: a fresh coin (obtained by a consumer) can only be spent once, offline, to a merchant, which must return it to the issuer
610 2011-08-12 08:08:33 <iscalar> AAW WHAT THE FECK
611 2011-08-12 08:08:35 <lfm> shadders: ys noncerange would actually increase the load on the pool servers I think, they prefer measures which reduce the load
612 2011-08-12 08:08:45 <iscalar> Rioters just destroyed my local pub ???_??? freaking england.
613 2011-08-12 08:09:07 <UukGoblin> phedny_, interesting...
614 2011-08-12 08:09:13 <lfm> shadders: stuff like the extra nonce and multiple payout addresses
615 2011-08-12 08:09:14 <phedny_> UukGoblin: if you want I can look up references for you
616 2011-08-12 08:09:45 <UukGoblin> phedny_, something introductory would be cool... ;-) wikipedia unfortunately doesn't seem to have an article on that in particular
617 2011-08-12 08:09:50 <shadders> extranonce would increase load on bitcoind and reduce it for poolserver...
618 2011-08-12 08:10:05 <iscalar> So Phedny, what other type of cryptocurrencies are widely used, or would you say bitcoin is unique in that aspect?
619 2011-08-12 08:10:31 <shadders> extra nonce... not sure... if large chunks of range are unused it would save a lot of back and forth between pool and daemon
620 2011-08-12 08:10:44 <lfm> shadders: I think they bypass bitcoind for extranonce tracking
621 2011-08-12 08:11:10 <shadders> they can't unless they're generating work inside pushpool...
622 2011-08-12 08:11:20 <lfm> shadders: right
623 2011-08-12 08:11:29 <phedny_> iscalar: Bitcoin is rather unique .. as far as I can tell it's the only solution that is fully decentralized, has been implemented and gained a respectable level of acceptance
624 2011-08-12 08:11:31 <shadders> extranonce change requires regenerating merkle root doesn't it?
625 2011-08-12 08:11:40 <lfm> shadders: yup
626 2011-08-12 08:12:05 <shadders> so pushpool is generating work internally now?
627 2011-08-12 08:12:32 <lfm> shadders: not sure really but thats the direction it needs to go
628 2011-08-12 08:12:37 <iscalar> Phedny_: Aah I see, secondarily, what do you feel is the reason that bit coin has been rapidly losing value recently, dropping from 15$+ to less than half of that in the space of a month, is this a regular occurance, or is something happening im unaware of, im not good with economics >_<
629 2011-08-12 08:13:19 <lfm> value dropped from nearly $30
630 2011-08-12 08:13:32 <iscalar> Wow, but why =/ whats causing it
631 2011-08-12 08:13:54 <iscalar> or more, the main problem, because obviously you dont want to explain the fundamentals of economics to me XD
632 2011-08-12 08:14:14 <lfm> if we knew we'd prolly keep it to ourselves cuz it would be worth a lot
633 2011-08-12 08:14:30 <phedny_> iscalar: I'm not an economics guy too, but I suspect that it's largely due to some media coverage of some large failures (mtgox drop, mybitcoin, bitomat), combined with the fact that there is virtually no economy and the current value is all based on speculation, so people may be leaving Bitcoin for what it is and stepping out to find riches elsewhere
634 2011-08-12 08:15:03 <shadders> lfm: can
635 2011-08-12 08:15:08 <iscalar> That's quite a shame, I understand regarding the mybitcoin and mtgox drop though, that was a true shame.
636 2011-08-12 08:15:23 <shadders> lfm: can't see it happening in a hurry.... that's a whole can of worms
637 2011-08-12 08:15:28 <shadders> stinky dead worms
638 2011-08-12 08:16:01 <lfm> shadders: hehe, ya, a lot of people say that when they look too close at the bitcoin code
639 2011-08-12 08:16:06 <eps> i think a drop as long as it is relatively stable is a good thing for bitcoin
640 2011-08-12 08:16:15 <eps> i am in this for the long haul
641 2011-08-12 08:16:21 <iscalar> As am I
642 2011-08-12 08:16:49 <iscalar> its just irritating because it makes our bit coin wallet worth less, also quite irritating that i was stupid enough to buy 10 bit coins while they were still 15$ plus
643 2011-08-12 08:16:59 <lfm> ya I found it interesting that it actually dropped so smoothly spread over a couple months. I kinda expected it to crash real hard
644 2011-08-12 08:17:29 <phedny_> UukGoblin: the lecture notes have two references: David Chaum, Blind SIgnatures for Untraceable Payments, in: Advances in Cryptology - CRYPTO '92, Plenum Press, New York, 1983, pp. 199--203 and Berry Schoenmkers, Basic Security of the ecash TM Payment System, in B. Preneel and V. Rijmen, State of the Art in Applied Cryptography: Course on Computer Security and Industrial Cryptography, Leuven, Belgium, June 1997. Revised Lectures, LNCS 1528, Spri
645 2011-08-12 08:18:32 <eps> i think if bitcoin takes off in a mainstream way, it won't be through commerce, it will be as a competitor to low end money transfer services like western union
646 2011-08-12 08:19:01 <eps> but this requires the third world to have the necessary internet infrastructure
647 2011-08-12 08:19:33 <lfm> eps oh Im sure nigeria is looking real close at bitcoin already for money transfer
648 2011-08-12 08:19:36 <phedny_> lfm: well.. a smooth drop might indicate some early adopter cashing out over a longer period of time.. which in the end will be good, since it distributes coins over a larger amount of people .. but that's just a theory I have
649 2011-08-12 08:19:49 <eps> basically I think the adoption of bitcoin is closely linked to the availability of computers, networks and bandwith in developing countries
650 2011-08-12 08:20:00 <iscalar> Hmm, Thats a interesting ideal, but i personally believe that the media will stop that from happening, i mean all they have to do is run a story on the uses for things like silk road or child porn trading over tor and the assosiated bad press would cripple bit coin or at least temporarily stop its growth.
651 2011-08-12 08:20:16 <iscalar> Ooh, I agree with that last comment though eps.
652 2011-08-12 08:20:40 <phedny_> I know in some African countries mobile payments are actually mainstream
653 2011-08-12 08:20:48 <phedny_> people don't ahve computers, but do have mobile phones
654 2011-08-12 08:20:54 <phedny_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
655 2011-08-12 08:21:58 <iscalar> Hmm, I think the next step bit coin needs to take is to try to improve the methods and ways it can be accessed, Smart phones being a key example, I realise theres a bit coin app for I phone, is there one for android at the moment?
656 2011-08-12 08:22:40 <phedny_> some software that works with non-smart phones would be great for deployment in Africa
657 2011-08-12 08:22:58 <iscalar> Agreed, definently something worth looking into for a development plan.
658 2011-08-12 08:23:05 <phedny_> now, if just one or a couple of African countries adopt it as their main payment system, it'll be unstoppable
659 2011-08-12 08:23:09 <iscalar> Sms possibly?
660 2011-08-12 08:23:09 <lfm> basicly could just be a bank web site
661 2011-08-12 08:23:38 <phedny_> African government are already used to not controlling the currency, since they mostly rely on USD already
662 2011-08-12 08:24:12 <lfm> ya, like I said, Nigerians
663 2011-08-12 08:24:30 <iscalar> Well its a universal currency, what they need to do is give it a steady value before people properly taking it seriously, giving a clear example what 1 bit coin is worth because at the moment the rapid inflation or deflation of bit coin value probably puts a lot of people off using it.
664 2011-08-12 08:25:15 <phedny_> iscalar: once BTC becomes mainstream anywhere, demand will rise and therefore the price, you cannot prevent that in any way
665 2011-08-12 08:25:24 <iscalar> As well as increasing security on things such as the wallet file and fixing double spending issues.
666 2011-08-12 08:25:45 <iscalar> Of course but to get it mainstream it has to be a bit more stable in the short term.
667 2011-08-12 08:25:46 <lfm> fixing double spending issues???
668 2011-08-12 08:26:22 <iscalar> O.o
669 2011-08-12 08:26:46 <iscalar> you can still double spend in certain circumstances I believe.
670 2011-08-12 08:26:52 <iscalar> I may be wrong, as I said, im new to all of this XD
671 2011-08-12 08:26:53 <phedny_> also, I learned in African countries mobile airtime minutes are a medium of exchange across national borders, because that's easier transfered compared to paper currency
672 2011-08-12 08:27:01 <iscalar> This discussion is heavily interesting though =].
673 2011-08-12 08:27:15 <iscalar> Interesting
674 2011-08-12 08:27:18 <phedny_> just maybe, Africa may be the key to Bitcoin adoption
675 2011-08-12 08:27:22 <lfm> iscaler good luck with that. maybe if  someone is accepting payment without confirmation(s)
676 2011-08-12 08:27:54 <iscalar> If 1 BC could be arbitraily traded for a set amount of a singular item, prices would regulate around the value of the item in question, of course to do that would cost a lot of money though.
677 2011-08-12 08:28:11 <iscalar> I think you may be right on that one phendny
678 2011-08-12 08:28:37 <iscalar> Lfm, I dont double spend, nor do I try, so hush
679 2011-08-12 08:28:45 <Eliel> iscalar: who is this "they" who need to give bitcoin a steady value? :P
680 2011-08-12 08:28:56 <lfm> phedny_: ya, more 419 offers using bitcoins could really put it over the top
681 2011-08-12 08:30:17 <eps> bitcoins value will always fluctuate, will never be stable over the long term
682 2011-08-12 08:30:20 <iscalar> They is reffering to owners of key exchange sites mainly, as Im fully aware of how bit coin is decentralized.
683 2011-08-12 08:30:40 <eps> but i heard the ruxum exchange is planning to allow futures and short selling
684 2011-08-12 08:30:42 <iscalar> Of course, but theres a degree of stability that is necassary for mainstream acceptance usually.
685 2011-08-12 08:30:55 <iscalar> Because otherwise it will just be treated like a stock market
686 2011-08-12 08:31:00 <iscalar> instead of a currency
687 2011-08-12 08:31:08 <Eliel> sorry, no, there are no single people who can control the value.
688 2011-08-12 08:31:12 <eps> such things could allow for users to use bitcoin and be certain about it's value in a month or so
689 2011-08-12 08:31:15 <lfm> most currencies actually float these days
690 2011-08-12 08:31:22 <Eliel> maybe for a while, if they've got enough money
691 2011-08-12 08:31:31 <Eliel> but they'll run out soon enough
692 2011-08-12 08:31:51 <iscalar> I know Eliel, what im saying is if people could offer a certain good for direct trade of a single bit coin, prices would begin to regular aroudn the value of the item if it was something we all used.
693 2011-08-12 08:31:57 <Eliel> yes, it's not so long ago when dollar was about equal to euro
694 2011-08-12 08:32:31 <Eliel> and now, it's more like 3 dollars for 2 euros
695 2011-08-12 08:32:42 <iscalar> it would require a mass co-ordinated effort by most major bit coin exchanges though, which is a statiscal improbability and therefore just yet another fantasy of mine.
696 2011-08-12 08:33:44 <iscalar> I remember when the dollar hit near exactly half of the sterling
697 2011-08-12 08:33:48 <Eliel> iscalar: the problem isn't that people are valuing it lower or higher. The problem is that the number of people buying/selling are fluctuating.
698 2011-08-12 08:35:04 <iscalar> Aah I see, I don't have a large grasp on economics, that seems to make sense, I think the developers need to increase security methods on the wallet file and fix the issue of bit coin stealing trojans at the moment, as people need a bit more confidence in the security of their money.
699 2011-08-12 08:35:05 <Eliel> but I think what you're trying to get at is that bitcoin needs markets of it's own. So people stop looking at it through dollars and instead look at it as bitcoisn.
700 2011-08-12 08:35:16 <iscalar> Yes, exactly.
701 2011-08-12 08:35:28 <iscalar> Thank you for simplifying it XD much easier way to explain :P
702 2011-08-12 08:35:45 <eps> hopefully once enough people use bitcoin for money transfer people will end up in a position where they don't necessarily want or need to convert bitcoin back to a traditional currency
703 2011-08-12 08:36:06 <iscalar> You'll know we've won the currency war when we can succesfully type "1 dollar to bitcoin" in google and get a calculator reply :P
704 2011-08-12 08:36:19 <iscalar> Exactly, its a popularity game basically.
705 2011-08-12 08:36:23 <eps> at that point, bitcoin would become the currency that all other currencies are valued against
706 2011-08-12 08:36:29 <iscalar> And it's staggering how far bit coins come so far.
707 2011-08-12 08:36:44 <eps> i can see banks using bitcoins to measure themselves against other banks
708 2011-08-12 08:36:49 <iscalar> It's just like sci fi movies and "credits" thats basically all bit coins is
709 2011-08-12 08:36:59 <iscalar> A virtual currency accepted internationally. and its beautiful :P
710 2011-08-12 08:37:39 <iscalar> Plus the uses in buisness within regards to major currency differences and exchange rates being effectively unimportant would be staggering.
711 2011-08-12 08:38:19 <eps> i don't think mainstream success for bitcoin is inevitable, but i definitely consider it plausible
712 2011-08-12 08:38:52 <eps> and in the future i think it is almost a certainty that there will be some kind of currency based on the bitcoin concept
713 2011-08-12 08:39:05 <jeremias> criminal uses will certainly be a threat to bitcoin...
714 2011-08-12 08:39:38 <iscalar> Definently, and agreed jeramias, thats what I said above, all it takes is one news story about its black market uses, and people will fail to realise that ANY currency has black market uses.
715 2011-08-12 08:39:40 <eps> criminal uses will certainly be a threat to US dollars...
716 2011-08-12 08:40:22 <lfm> eps hehe
717 2011-08-12 08:40:29 <iscalar> lol :P
718 2011-08-12 08:40:50 <eps> in fact you could argue they already are a threat to US dollars if you consider the credit crunch behaviour of the banks should be illegal
719 2011-08-12 08:41:04 <iscalar> But yeah, the idea of bitcoin is what draws me to it, I like the idea of the entire community being responsible for it as a whole instead of some rich fat cats laughing at how we spend 40 hours a week to earn the money they wipe their arse with, pardon my language.
720 2011-08-12 08:41:36 <iscalar> The second I see a "bitcoin bank" owned by a legitimate corporation however, im bring out the ddosing tools ???_???
721 2011-08-12 08:42:13 <eps> corporate welfare is as bad as normal welfare in my opinion, many big companies rely on tax loopholes and might struggle if the business environment wasn't so favourable to them
722 2011-08-12 08:42:20 <phedny_> iscalar: why? wouldn't such a bank actually enable non-tech people to start using BTC?
723 2011-08-12 08:42:26 <iscalar> Exactly.
724 2011-08-12 08:42:48 <eps> I just want a level playing field, ideally a flat tax economy, i realise i am ranting about politics now ;)
725 2011-08-12 08:44:05 <iscalar> Not necassarily phedny, there's always alternative methods to that, all a bank used to be back in the day was a place to store money, now if you can store money on you digitally it renders them useless, and it'd basically be the exact same thing as a real bank, evil, but vital, I'd prefer to keep bit coin away from banks so they do not become dependant on them, which if it became a mainstream currency would most likely happen pure
726 2011-08-12 08:44:18 <iscalar> Eps, completely agreed.
727 2011-08-12 08:44:58 <iscalar> I think the money we earn, should be the money we earn, taxes should only really be paid if the cause behind them is right, and a "defence" (more like offence) budget that surpasses childcare and medical care combined is not were I want my money going really
728 2011-08-12 08:45:14 <BlueMatt> http://pastebin.com/RDw94V1r
729 2011-08-12 08:45:22 <iscalar> I mean, I dont like the idea of working hours a week so the government can take my money to make shit to kill people
730 2011-08-12 08:45:26 <phedny_> iscalar: in the old times banks weren't necessary too.. you could buy your own fault and store your money / gold.. it's just that banks knew how to protect it better
731 2011-08-12 08:46:03 <phedny_> iscalar: right now that's still the same.. people that are not the very best in protecting their computer *will* lose their money (to a trojan probably), unless they store it with a bank, that understands security
732 2011-08-12 08:46:17 <iscalar> I know, but banks are different now, they use their power and influence to line their own pockets at the expense of the working and lower class
733 2011-08-12 08:47:18 <iscalar> Their money storage is not even their main money method no more, they can literally create money through the federal reserve through lending, tax loopholes and various other legal failures, it's a real shame.
734 2011-08-12 08:47:23 <phedny_> isn't that what mobile phone companies, governments, software companies, media companies all are doing?
735 2011-08-12 08:48:20 <phedny_> now.. for banks in the US I believe ACH is the connecting infrastructure.. but you're not allowed onto it.. when the Bitcoin network is the infrastructure and you *can* go on it.. you'll have a choice
736 2011-08-12 08:48:31 <phedny_> right now, you don't have that choice
737 2011-08-12 08:48:55 <iscalar> Well yes, but theres different levels of it, and unfortunately banks are the worse for it, I mean all you have to do is look at the federal reserve banking policies hard enough, I mean lincoln wanted to remove the federal reserve all together, its a private non government owned company, and the world bank too, its horrible, they have a higehr GDP than most small developing countries, and I find that discusting
738 2011-08-12 08:49:20 <iscalar> They create all the money, but they create it with interest so that there will ALWAYS be debt, it's a horrible system, and thats what attracts me to bit coin so much
739 2011-08-12 08:49:33 <phedny_> well.. that's how the current system works
740 2011-08-12 08:49:48 <iscalar> Which is why I want a new system, a man can dream eh :P
741 2011-08-12 08:49:57 <phedny_> at least when it started.. a dollar entitled you to obtain a certain amount of gold
742 2011-08-12 08:50:22 <phedny_> so in fact, the dollar was a note that signified the debt of the government, denominated in gold
743 2011-08-12 08:50:28 <iscalar> it's sad, I know, but I think bit coin could be so wonderful for the people if used correctly, I dont want it being more beneficial for the corporations than the people, it should be the other way around or equal.
744 2011-08-12 08:50:38 <iscalar> I know, Trust me I know all about that.
745 2011-08-12 08:50:43 <iscalar> But we can't now
746 2011-08-12 08:50:52 <iscalar> Our paper money is worth nothing but the paper it's written on basically.
747 2011-08-12 08:51:13 <phedny_> iscalar: the thing is.. Bitcoin *can* make the difference.. but people with the intelligence and the goal of self-enrichment *will* find ways to enrich themselves
748 2011-08-12 08:51:19 <iscalar> And all the money is made via debt, the recent debt crysis not only in the us but all around the world is proof of this, something needs to change really.
749 2011-08-12 08:51:38 <iscalar> Of course that's true, and thats a shame, but why make it easy for them?
750 2011-08-12 08:51:40 <Eliel> iscalar: even if bitcoin ends up being beneficial for corporations, it works for the benefit of people as well.
751 2011-08-12 08:52:01 <iscalar> Yes yes I know, but we all know here as a fact that most corporations will try shift that balance
752 2011-08-12 08:52:03 <Eliel> iscalar: the system design is such that people don't need to depend on a corporation to handle their money for them.
753 2011-08-12 08:52:08 <iscalar> banks being key example of this.
754 2011-08-12 08:52:20 <iscalar> Exactly, thats why I love bit coin, or one of the many many reasons XD
755 2011-08-12 08:52:31 <phedny_> iscalar: in my view, credit card companies are even worse.. but I don't live in the US ;0
756 2011-08-12 08:52:48 <iscalar> I just don't want it to be braught down to the level of our own national currencies, because that would then devalidate the entire point of bit coins in general.
757 2011-08-12 08:52:53 <iscalar> Neither do I
758 2011-08-12 08:52:55 <iscalar> Im uk
759 2011-08-12 08:53:02 <iscalar> Or more, Im English.
760 2011-08-12 08:53:19 <iscalar> But, I travel a lot, and have family all around the world.
761 2011-08-12 08:53:26 <iscalar> So, Usa's quite a memorable place for me.
762 2011-08-12 08:53:35 <phedny_> ah.. you're living in the country that's seeking for digital censorship? ^_^
763 2011-08-12 08:54:18 <iscalar> I mean let me put it this way, apple, a freaking technology company, owns more money than the largest world super power, obviously something is fundamentally wrong in the system if we can allow that to happen yet still let poverty roam free and people live in squalor
764 2011-08-12 08:54:27 <iscalar> Yes, I am, and I hate it.
765 2011-08-12 08:54:33 <iscalar> In fact I moan about that more than anything in my life
766 2011-08-12 08:54:48 <phedny_> iscalar: the thing is.. Apple understands human psychology
767 2011-08-12 08:54:59 <iscalar> net neutrality is being completely ignored and the government thinks it has the write to block our access to information, which is infringing our human rights and civil liberties
768 2011-08-12 08:55:20 <BlueMatt> <phedny_> ah.. you're living in the country that's seeking for digital censorship? ^_^ <--- what the uk? france? the eu in general?
769 2011-08-12 08:55:20 <phedny_> well.. it's happening in a lot of countries
770 2011-08-12 08:55:25 <iscalar> of course they do, no company would be that rich otherwise, but that doesn't change my point >_<
771 2011-08-12 08:55:38 <phedny_> BlueMatt: both the EU and the US, I think
772 2011-08-12 08:55:47 <iscalar> hey, dont skit, obama has the power to literally turn your internet off if he wants
773 2011-08-12 08:55:54 <BlueMatt> so...any country anyone would want to live in
774 2011-08-12 08:55:59 <phedny_> iscalar: so the thing is.. if the system were different.. they'd still find a way to exploit that psychology knowledge
775 2011-08-12 08:56:00 <BlueMatt> iscalar: ...
776 2011-08-12 08:56:00 <iscalar> Hmm
777 2011-08-12 08:56:12 <iscalar> Nepal, barun valley, beautiful place, im a nature freak.
778 2011-08-12 08:56:24 <iscalar> unfortunately only tibetan monks are allowed to live there :'(
779 2011-08-12 08:56:39 <BlueMatt> last I heard nepal had the strictest internet filtering ever
780 2011-08-12 08:56:52 <phedny_> BlueMatt: North Korea hs ;)
781 2011-08-12 08:57:02 <BlueMatt> well, ok 2nd strictest
782 2011-08-12 08:57:20 <iscalar> So apart from that, I dont know, just somewhere were the overwhelming beauty of nature can be seen all around me, because while I still see the intrinsic complexity and beauty of EVERYTHING around me, its not nice to sit in a neighborhood fool of hoodies, retards, drug dealers and prostitutes
783 2011-08-12 08:57:37 <iscalar> Well google the barun valley
784 2011-08-12 08:57:47 <iscalar> if you could live somewere that beautiful, you wouldnt need internet XD
785 2011-08-12 08:58:27 <phedny_> hmm.. you'd need two weeks to reach that place? :)
786 2011-08-12 08:58:42 <iscalar> Hiking, yup.
787 2011-08-12 08:58:53 <iscalar> Its my dream living location, its just never going to happen, only monks can live there
788 2011-08-12 08:59:10 <phedny_> and becoming a monk is not possible / allowed?
789 2011-08-12 08:59:11 <iscalar> but this pictures from the 80's and look at its detail and colour and beauty and zomgwowthisthingblowsmymind
790 2011-08-12 08:59:21 <iscalar> Tibetan monks are raised from a very young age.
791 2011-08-12 08:59:29 <iscalar> I believe
792 2011-08-12 08:59:31 <phedny_> ok
793 2011-08-12 08:59:52 <iscalar> I dont know, I would become one but it requires certain dogmatic beliefs, of which I hold a very different mindset too
794 2011-08-12 09:01:49 <iscalar> Anyway, Phedny, Bluematt, were would you guys like to live if you could live anywere?
795 2011-08-12 09:03:34 <phedny_> iscalar: I don't know yet.. maybe Canada, Sweden or New Zealand.. but I'd first visit them for a shorter period to feel how life really is in those countries ;)
796 2011-08-12 09:03:59 <eps> i quite fancy australia
797 2011-08-12 09:04:05 <iscalar> Haha, nice nice. Swedens beautiful, love going there, I like switzerland for the ski-ing though
798 2011-08-12 09:04:06 <eps> but it does seem a bit cut off
799 2011-08-12 09:04:16 <eps> and their internet is very good i hear
800 2011-08-12 09:04:28 <eps> it is also quite difficult to get into
801 2011-08-12 09:04:32 <phedny_> New Zealand is more cut off.. but I suspect it being more privacy-friendly and such
802 2011-08-12 09:04:34 <iscalar> I have family over there, it's great but if your into gaming I hear they get all their games late and usually rather expensive to buy too
803 2011-08-12 09:04:46 <phedny_> maybe Iceland would be nice .. for political reasons .. and I guess the nature is great there too
804 2011-08-12 09:04:46 <vegard> oh hi
805 2011-08-12 09:04:55 <iscalar> Ooh iceland would be nice.
806 2011-08-12 09:04:57 <iscalar> very nice.
807 2011-08-12 09:05:03 <eps> australia is quite expensive in general at the moment
808 2011-08-12 09:05:16 <eps> i remember my mum going years ago and said it was really cheap
809 2011-08-12 09:05:31 <eps> but their currency has weathered the financial crisis very well
810 2011-08-12 09:05:32 <iscalar> I would love to live in a small village with a community type in which everybody recognises eachover, i think that would be my little paradise
811 2011-08-12 09:05:40 <noagendamarket> eww
812 2011-08-12 09:05:46 <iscalar> and i dont really care wear, as long as the scenery is nice an the weather varies
813 2011-08-12 09:05:56 <phedny_> I know both Australia and New Zealand have score-based immigration rules.. so with a good education you'd be able to get in rather easily
814 2011-08-12 09:06:02 <vegard> iscalar: you like false gossip and backstabbing too? :-P
815 2011-08-12 09:06:03 <iscalar> because i love all types of wether, I love sitting outside stoned in a thunderstorm, its a lovely experience
816 2011-08-12 09:06:04 <iscalar> or even sober!
817 2011-08-12 09:06:27 <Giel> iscalar: s/wether/weather/; I presume
818 2011-08-12 09:06:54 <iscalar> Haha, well thats why I want a mature village XD but i'd be willing to accept that in comparison to thosuands of people living with eachover ignorance of everyones interconnectedness and importance to each over, aka, cities/towns.
819 2011-08-12 09:07:00 <iscalar> Yes XD
820 2011-08-12 09:07:12 <phedny_> iscalar: well, in samll communities .. if you don't fit in (or adapt), you're not part of it
821 2011-08-12 09:07:23 <iscalar> I apologize for my spelling, my keyboards a rubber usb one i use for travel as my main ones broken, its pretty hard to press buttons on it lol.
822 2011-08-12 09:07:35 <iscalar> Well thats why I want to find one I do fit in :P
823 2011-08-12 09:07:45 <iscalar> Im not just gonna randomly move to a village because it fits the size I want :P
824 2011-08-12 09:08:02 <phedny_> anyway.. I'm out for lunch :)
825 2011-08-12 09:08:05 <iscalar> I'd go on a holiday there for a good month or two, see what the place is really like.
826 2011-08-12 09:08:12 <iscalar> Okay man, great talk, enjoy your lunch ^-^
827 2011-08-12 09:08:27 <eps> ideally, in a libertarian soceity, it shouldn't matter whether you share the same values as your neighbours
828 2011-08-12 09:08:55 <eps> people should respect your right to live your life any way you wish as long as you don't harm other people
829 2011-08-12 09:10:44 <iscalar> Ideally - key word.
830 2011-08-12 09:11:14 <iscalar> If I ever had the money, I'd start my own village for people who think about the same idea EPS
831 2011-08-12 09:11:25 <eps> yeah, increased authoritarianism is a worrying trend
832 2011-08-12 09:11:28 <iscalar> why cant we just live in harmony, well, human nature but, why can't we still try?
833 2011-08-12 09:11:42 <iscalar> Well people are braught up to accept it, and other people abuse that fact.
834 2011-08-12 09:11:43 <eps> i thought everybody agreed this was a bad idea after WW2?
835 2011-08-12 09:11:44 <iscalar> It's a real shame.
836 2011-08-12 09:12:06 <iscalar> Yeah they did, so they hid it through democratic capitalism.
837 2011-08-12 09:12:17 <eps> talk about not learning from history
838 2011-08-12 09:12:36 <eps> anyway i think i nearly godwinned the conversation so i better stop now
839 2011-08-12 09:13:28 <iscalar> I know, I find it odd though how the government says the average IQ is going up and up however all I see around me is that people are getting less intelligent and more complacent with the rules of the government.
840 2011-08-12 09:13:40 <vegard> er, what?
841 2011-08-12 09:13:56 <iscalar> Lol okay eps :P
842 2011-08-12 09:13:57 <vegard> I thought IQ was _defined_ so that the average was 100?
843 2011-08-12 09:14:08 <iscalar> No no no thats based internationally
844 2011-08-12 09:14:15 <iscalar> im on about national average
845 2011-08-12 09:14:20 <vegard> oh.
846 2011-08-12 09:14:24 <eps> IQ is small part of the picture when it comes to political views
847 2011-08-12 09:14:40 <eps> i really don't mind people making authoritarian arguements
848 2011-08-12 09:14:57 <copumpkin> the anti-intellectualism is kind of scary thoug
849 2011-08-12 09:14:58 <eps> the problem is most people who do so today wrap them up as something else
850 2011-08-12 09:15:05 <iscalar> I know I know, I just seem to feel that most other people my age (19) and there abouts would rather worry about how to get their next case of beer or get laid then worry about their own true state of well being.
851 2011-08-12 09:15:17 <iscalar> Exactly pumpkin
852 2011-08-12 09:15:21 <eps> and it has got to the point where i am not sure if these people are aware of how contradictionary they are
853 2011-08-12 09:15:37 <eps> i am talking mostly about the republicans in america
854 2011-08-12 09:15:51 <eps> the war on drugs is a great example
855 2011-08-12 09:15:52 <copumpkin> yeah, they've been particularly ridiculous for the past couple of years
856 2011-08-12 09:16:11 <iscalar> I mean all you really need to do is look at tv, look at the complexity of comedy and dark humor in tv shows from the 70's - early 90's   now look at "funny" tv today, its like we all got a frontal labotomy or somethign
857 2011-08-12 09:16:15 <iscalar> something even.
858 2011-08-12 09:16:18 <copumpkin> the dems are kind of spineless, but not quite as intellectually dishonest :)
859 2011-08-12 09:16:31 <eps> copumpkin: a good way of putting it
860 2011-08-12 09:16:53 <copumpkin> I'm kind of blown away at how ridiculous things have gotten
861 2011-08-12 09:16:54 <iscalar> Mhmm
862 2011-08-12 09:16:59 <eps> i think i meant contraditory and not contradictionary ;)
863 2011-08-12 09:17:11 <iscalar> The thing is, there is a lot of people like us, who sit here, and think this, but why do we never do anything
864 2011-08-12 09:17:13 <copumpkin> soon they'll be talking about the dems as "cockroaches that need to be crushed"
865 2011-08-12 09:17:14 <eps> contradictory even
866 2011-08-12 09:17:18 <copumpkin> "leeches on our great nation"
867 2011-08-12 09:17:19 <copumpkin> :P
868 2011-08-12 09:17:28 <copumpkin> with the degree of extremist sentiment on that side
869 2011-08-12 09:17:52 <iscalar> Well yesterday our local paper blamed the riots on "Idiot academics and left winged politicians"
870 2011-08-12 09:18:10 <iscalar> its like, wtf, were a coalition/conservative government atm, how the hell can you blame the party thats not even in power!
871 2011-08-12 09:18:23 <copumpkin> dems already murder babies for fun and steal from the hardworking rich to give to the lazy poor
872 2011-08-12 09:18:34 <eps> it amazes me how liberal is now a dirty word in america, yet all american ploticians boast about how free america is
873 2011-08-12 09:18:39 <copumpkin> oh, and we mustn't forget that they want to force everyone to gay marry
874 2011-08-12 09:18:39 <iscalar> Lol pumpkin
875 2011-08-12 09:18:54 <copumpkin> >_>
876 2011-08-12 09:19:05 <iscalar> See, republicans play on peoples fears to win, while democrats play on  peoples dreams to win.
877 2011-08-12 09:19:19 <iscalar> Same tactic, different context.
878 2011-08-12 09:19:42 <iscalar> I mean obama won mainly because of a single word
879 2011-08-12 09:19:45 <iscalar> Change
880 2011-08-12 09:20:02 <copumpkin> also, palin
881 2011-08-12 09:20:14 <iscalar> Lol
882 2011-08-12 09:20:18 <copumpkin> I'm sure a lot of the less ridiculous repubs saw her and were like wtf
883 2011-08-12 09:20:26 <iscalar> I mean, the thing i dont get is the health reforms a while back, how could ANYBODY be against them
884 2011-08-12 09:20:31 <iscalar> I live in england
885 2011-08-12 09:20:37 <iscalar> The nhs is AMAZING for fucks sake
886 2011-08-12 09:20:46 <copumpkin> iscalar: no, you're supposed to hate it!
887 2011-08-12 09:20:51 <iscalar> it has its flaws, but I dont have to worry about spending thousands of pounds if i have a medical emergency
888 2011-08-12 09:20:53 <copumpkin> that's what fox told me
889 2011-08-12 09:21:12 <copumpkin> I grew up in italy and never thought twice about healthcare
890 2011-08-12 09:21:20 <copumpkin> but when I came here I learned that I hated it all along
891 2011-08-12 09:21:25 <iscalar> But somehow republicans and even some democrats believe that free medical care for the entire country is a bad thing because of a tax rise
892 2011-08-12 09:21:26 <copumpkin> who knew!
893 2011-08-12 09:21:39 <iscalar> I mean come on, if your in hospital twice in your life, you've got your moneys worth!
894 2011-08-12 09:21:59 <copumpkin> iscalar: yeah, but I don't want to pay for poor people
895 2011-08-12 09:22:05 <copumpkin> they're lazy and deserve to die