1 2011-09-10 00:00:21 <cjdelisle> It can be easy but there are a ton of features I don't know/use
  2 2011-09-10 00:00:28 <k9quaint> vim = hit colon and then faceroll on the keyboard
  3 2011-09-10 00:00:31 <cjdelisle> /want
  4 2011-09-10 00:00:32 <Disposition> speaking of which Diablo-D3 http://i.imgur.com/5HC3f.jpg
  5 2011-09-10 00:02:39 <Diablo-D3> my nick very famously predates blizzard entertainment, co.
  6 2011-09-10 00:06:58 <cjdelisle> blizzard went downhill when it stopped being about owning little people and making them chop wood and stuff
  7 2011-09-10 00:08:45 <theymos> I have backups of all forum resources, so I could set up a clone of the Bitcoin forum anywhere in a few minutes. How long should I wait to do this? If Sirius gets my email, it can be done properly.
  8 2011-09-10 00:09:45 <Disposition> can you forward to domain to some index.txt explaining to people who weren't around what happened?
  9 2011-09-10 00:10:00 <theymos> No.
 10 2011-09-10 00:10:04 <Disposition> why not.
 11 2011-09-10 00:10:13 <k9quaint> theymos: wait until it can be done right
 12 2011-09-10 00:10:21 <theymos> Because I don't have control over the DNS, and I can't access the server.
 13 2011-09-10 00:10:45 <Disposition> just wait until you can set up correctly then
 14 2011-09-10 00:10:55 <Disposition> or enable the maintance mode.
 15 2011-09-10 00:11:08 <Disposition> or you can just remove that stupid smiley from the admin panel.
 16 2011-09-10 00:11:27 <theymos> The HTTP server is down, and I can't bring it back up.
 17 2011-09-10 00:12:08 <Disposition> oh balls.
 18 2011-09-10 00:12:40 <Disposition> oh there you are.
 19 2011-09-10 00:14:31 <k9quaint> ok, one sirius produced, that will be 10BTC for the summoning and the binding to your will is free with groupon
 20 2011-09-10 00:14:39 <noagendamarket> Its not a bad thing that the forums are down :)
 21 2011-09-10 00:14:53 <noagendamarket> its a cesspool
 22 2011-09-10 00:14:56 <Diablo-D3> the forums were shitty anyhow
 23 2011-09-10 00:15:01 <Diablo-D3> even my superior mod poewrs couldnt stop it
 24 2011-09-10 00:15:06 <Diablo-D3> theymos wouldnt let me ban people
 25 2011-09-10 00:15:11 <noagendamarket> lol
 26 2011-09-10 00:15:34 <noagendamarket> get rid of the douchebags
 27 2011-09-10 00:15:47 <Disposition> add like a voting system
 28 2011-09-10 00:15:52 <noagendamarket> ahaha\n1729766
 29 2011-09-10 00:16:56 <Namegduf> Disposition: I recommend trying to found an Internet community and run it like a democracy
 30 2011-09-10 00:17:03 <Namegduf> Disposition: Before suggesting it to others
 31 2011-09-10 00:17:04 <Namegduf> :P
 32 2011-09-10 00:17:13 <k9quaint> the forums hit Eternal September a while back
 33 2011-09-10 00:17:36 <noagendamarket> they suffered the "evaporative cooling effect"
 34 2011-09-10 00:18:05 <Namegduf> The evaporative cooling effect indicates a moderation failure
 35 2011-09-10 00:18:17 <Namegduf> The principal role of a moderator is to prevent it
 36 2011-09-10 00:18:24 <Namegduf> By stopping the community from sucking such that it occurs
 37 2011-09-10 00:18:28 <noagendamarket> Just forward the domain to bitcoin.co.uk
 38 2011-09-10 00:18:45 <noagendamarket> Vladamir will kick their asses
 39 2011-09-10 00:19:04 <k9quaint> bladamir could't kick his own ass
 40 2011-09-10 00:19:08 <noagendamarket> lolo
 41 2011-09-10 00:19:30 <noagendamarket> The forum isnt shit
 42 2011-09-10 00:19:47 <k9quaint> man, the goons are turning #bitcoin into an awesome display of chaos
 43 2011-09-10 00:19:53 <noagendamarket> ya
 44 2011-09-10 00:20:11 <k9quaint> noagendamarket: your lack the faculties to determine what is and what isn't shit
 45 2011-09-10 00:20:40 <noagendamarket> Shit = bitcointalk
 46 2011-09-10 00:21:08 <Disposition> Namegduf: nope, didn't suggest it to others, I think I'm just gonna repost all the development news on it, and local coverage
 47 2011-09-10 00:21:17 <Disposition> such as the open video conference tomorrow
 48 2011-09-10 00:21:43 <Disposition> instead of drama, or some fox news article
 49 2011-09-10 00:21:55 <Disposition> and try to cover all the meet up and conferences
 50 2011-09-10 00:22:13 <cjdelisle> btcban
 51 2011-09-10 00:22:55 <cjdelisle> for each user on the forum, add a bitcoin address, once a week the address with the most money in it, that user is banned
 52 2011-09-10 00:23:03 <noagendamarket> heh
 53 2011-09-10 00:47:05 <kjj> ok, I guess I was wrong.  the Cosby infestation in #bitcoin was an improvement.
 54 2011-09-10 01:02:29 <DaQatz> beer
 55 2011-09-10 01:14:39 <noagendamarket> http://solidcointalk.org/topic/192-announcement-cosbycoins/
 56 2011-09-10 01:19:43 <Matth1a3> ;seen gavinandresen
 57 2011-09-10 01:52:14 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 8 hours, 9 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> yeah, forum looks just fine to me (in Chrome)
 58 2011-09-10 01:52:14 <lfm> ;;seen gavinandresen
 59 2011-09-10 02:14:45 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 469d3f6e76b4 r45 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (5 files in 2 dirs): - added a temporary logger to record all stages of submission where a real solution is found.
 60 2011-09-10 02:17:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 37d1f4eadd23 r46 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/logging/ShareExchange.java: - added log notifiation if upstream accepts but we didn't mark it as a real solution
 61 2011-09-10 02:46:45 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 62 2011-09-10 02:46:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 144721 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 430 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1784503.15362704
 63 2011-09-10 02:47:23 <lfm> still seems to be even money if the difficulty will go up or down this time.
 64 2011-09-10 02:48:02 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
 65 2011-09-10 02:48:03 <gribble> 1778786.01983
 66 2011-09-10 04:09:04 <ymirhotfoot> ;;ticker
 67 2011-09-10 04:09:05 <gribble> Best bid: 5.2485, Best ask: 5.24867, Bid-ask spread: 0.00017, Last trade: 5.24849, 24 hour volume: 192314, 24 hour low: 4.18, 24 hour high: 6.19936
 68 2011-09-10 04:38:06 <ymirhotfoot> ;;ticker
 69 2011-09-10 04:38:07 <gribble> Best bid: 5.24997, Best ask: 5.25, Bid-ask spread: 2.99999999998e-05, Last trade: 5.24998, 24 hour volume: 191317, 24 hour low: 4.18, 24 hour high: 6.1
 70 2011-09-10 05:05:10 <ymirhotfoot> BlueMatt and tcatm, thak you for published copies of the blockchain!
 71 2011-09-10 05:05:30 <ymirhotfoot> ;;ticker
 72 2011-09-10 05:05:31 <gribble> Best bid: 5.24997, Best ask: 5.24998, Bid-ask spread: 9.99999999962e-06, Last trade: 5.24997, 24 hour volume: 191244, 24 hour low: 4.18, 24 hour high: 6.1
 73 2011-09-10 05:30:13 <shadders> any idea's why a bitcoind 0.3.24 would fail to return a verack message?  client connects, sends version, receives version, sends verack, then the bitcoind just starts sending addr and inv messages but never the last verack
 74 2011-09-10 05:31:37 <shadders> protocol version 31800 (using bitcoinj)
 75 2011-09-10 05:56:39 <lfm> shadders: I think you read the spec wrong. it wont send another verack
 76 2011-09-10 05:58:42 <sirius> The forum is being relocated and should be up some time today. There was an exploit that allowed to upload javascript as a smiley and embed it. The database should be safe.
 77 2011-09-10 06:01:57 <shadders> lfm: so only client side is meant to send a verack?
 78 2011-09-10 06:03:02 <shadders> lfm: was going on bitcoinj connection code:
 79 2011-09-10 06:03:03 <shadders> // Send an ACK message stating we accept the peers protocol version.
 80 2011-09-10 06:03:04 <shadders> // And get one back ...
 81 2011-09-10 06:03:38 <shadders> I notice it doesn't actually check what message type it got back...
 82 2011-09-10 06:03:54 <lfm> the reply to the first version is the second version, not a verack
 83 2011-09-10 06:07:10 <shadders> lfm: just checked and one of the unit tests for bitcoinj gets a verack back after it sends it's verack...
 84 2011-09-10 06:07:41 <shadders> I think there's something squiffy with my wire serialization...
 85 2011-09-10 06:07:49 <lfm> well if they both accept the other's version of the protocol, then which one will they use?
 86 2011-09-10 06:11:19 <shadders> good point... though atm I think I've got worse problems than that...
 87 2011-09-10 06:11:38 <shadders> subVer is getting mangled "BitCoinJ 0.3-SNAPSHO" <- should end with T
 88 2011-09-10 06:12:00 <shadders> and 0 block height is ending up as: blocks=1131702594
 89 2011-09-10 06:12:35 <lfm> doesnt sound good, you see the "U" in front of the BitCoinJ there?
 90 2011-09-10 06:13:00 <lfm> its reverse video on my screen
 91 2011-09-10 06:13:06 <shadders> Is it a U?  I just a square box with
 92 2011-09-10 06:13:11 <shadders> 0 0
 93 2011-09-10 06:13:13 <shadders> 1 5
 94 2011-09-10 06:13:26 <lfm> ya some sorta control char I guess
 95 2011-09-10 06:14:35 <shadders> might have an offset 1 less than it should be... or maybe not decoding varstring length properly
 96 2011-09-10 06:15:27 <lfm> i know how that serialization can get tricky to get it just right
 97 2011-09-10 06:18:36 <noagendamarket> http://forum.bitcoin.com.au/   if youre suffering forum withdrawal.
 98 2011-09-10 06:24:25 <lfm> that just teases withdrawal
 99 2011-09-10 06:49:34 <Blitzboom> http://cosbycoin.com/
100 2011-09-10 06:50:10 <cacheson> I'm going through cosby withdrawal
101 2011-09-10 06:50:34 <cacheson> will bitcointalk still have the new features when it comes back up?
102 2011-09-10 06:57:52 <AnnihilaT> perhaps we should add some cosby to: https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/
103 2011-09-10 06:58:00 <AnnihilaT> to help you out a bit
104 2011-09-10 06:58:08 <AnnihilaT> i know its a tough habit to kick
105 2011-09-10 07:01:57 <cacheson> AnnihilaT: :D
106 2011-09-10 07:53:05 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r201 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/PeerGroup.java: Remove stray import. Gotta love IDEs. Resolves issue 78.
107 2011-09-10 07:53:46 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r202 /trunk/README: Update README.
108 2011-09-10 07:55:19 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r203 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Sha256Hash.java: Add a serialVersionUID to Sha256Hash. Resolves issue 77.
109 2011-09-10 07:56:42 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r204 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/PeerGroup.java: Tweak PeerGroup thread priority. Resolves issue 67.
110 2011-09-10 08:47:20 <shadders> *sigh* fixed serialization issue... wasn't the problem..
111 2011-09-10 08:49:36 <lianj> only one way to find out :P
112 2011-09-10 08:54:53 <shadders> I was finding out when I wrote that... I'm still finding out ;)
113 2011-09-10 08:55:20 <shadders> sources are about 170mb
114 2011-09-10 08:56:56 <lianj> what OS are you on, is there no pkg already?
115 2011-09-10 08:58:53 <shadders> ubuntu - building it with bitcoin-dissector
116 2011-09-10 08:59:28 <shadders> there is a package but I've never used it before and wouldn't have a clue how to import the dissector...
117 2011-09-10 08:59:39 <lianj> ah ok
118 2011-09-10 08:59:39 <shadders> don't even know it's possible without building
119 2011-09-10 08:59:48 <shadders> just finished...
120 2011-09-10 08:59:55 <lianj> yay :D
121 2011-09-10 09:00:14 <shadders> now how the hell do I start it... :S
122 2011-09-10 09:10:38 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r23b10e6c4090 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fixed unit test by having configurable barrier settings.
123 2011-09-10 09:10:39 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rf8dc06720daa / (4 files in 3 dirs): check_block() and accept_block()
124 2011-09-10 09:18:09 <shadders> so anyone actually using bitcoin dissector?
125 2011-09-10 09:25:42 <shadders> compiled with patch but can't see bitcoin in the protocol list'
126 2011-09-10 09:31:41 <lfm> shadders: does it snoop packets?
127 2011-09-10 09:34:01 <shadders> yeah... I presume the dissector actually breaks down the packets
128 2011-09-10 09:34:32 <shadders> I can see the raw hex data but it's not even split by message so it's pretty hard to read...
129 2011-09-10 09:35:54 <shadders> I want to compare what mine sends over the wire compared to bitcoinj... using all bitcoinj code except I'm using netty for transport where bitcoinj uses blocking IO sockets
130 2011-09-10 09:36:10 <shadders> something down there is messing it up I think...
131 2011-09-10 09:36:30 <lfm> sounds interesting anyway
132 2011-09-10 12:07:57 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
133 2011-09-10 12:08:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 144774 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 377 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 15 hours, 40 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1782313.35559546
134 2011-09-10 12:19:59 <gribble> Best bid: 5.15, Best ask: 5.195, Bid-ask spread: 0.045, Last trade: 5.199, 24 hour volume: 122708, 24 hour low: 4.18, 24 hour high: 5.495
135 2011-09-10 12:19:59 <ymirhotfoot> ;;ticker
136 2011-09-10 13:42:32 <luke-jr> fwiw, list of authors of over 100 bitcoin patches, sorted by patch count: Con Kolivas, Gavin Andresen, Amir Taaki, "Kiba", Satoshi Nakamoto, Jeff Garzik, David FRANCOIS, Luke Dashjr, Pavel Karoukin, Nils Schneider, "davux", John Tobey, Daniel Folkinshteyn, Patrick McFarland, Patrick Strateman, Matt Corallo, Pieter Wuille, "m0mchil", "Artefact2", Ehud Ben-Reuven
137 2011-09-10 13:43:00 <Optimo> congrats to the contributors
138 2011-09-10 13:43:04 <Optimo> and thanks
139 2011-09-10 13:43:39 <luke-jr> conman obviously works very hard on cgminer O.o
140 2011-09-10 13:43:43 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, and amir is no longer on bitcoin.org
141 2011-09-10 13:43:44 <phantomcircuit> yeah
142 2011-09-10 13:43:48 <phantomcircuit> no politics there at all
143 2011-09-10 13:44:45 <luke-jr> (Pieter Wuille)
144 2011-09-10 13:45:02 <Diablo-D3> yeah
145 2011-09-10 13:45:27 <Diablo-D3> btw, how did you do patch count?
146 2011-09-10 13:45:36 <Diablo-D3> because it seems strange ck has such a high patch count
147 2011-09-10 13:46:12 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: find -type d -name '*.git' | while read r; do export GIT_DIR="$PWD/$r"; git branch | cut -b 3- | while read b; do git log --format=format:'%H %aN%n' "$b"; done; done | sort | uniq | cut -b 42- | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
148 2011-09-10 13:46:28 <luke-jr> within BitGit's root
149 2011-09-10 13:46:39 <Diablo-D3> huh
150 2011-09-10 13:46:48 <Diablo-D3> conman: you commit shit entirely too much
151 2011-09-10 13:46:51 <luke-jr> LOl
152 2011-09-10 13:48:30 <luke-jr> cgminer *does* have more commits than the SC
153 2011-09-10 13:49:09 <luke-jr> looking through cgminer's commits, they seem quite sanely done (as I would have expected from conman)
154 2011-09-10 13:49:31 <luke-jr> one might argue Satoshi's initial commit should count as more than one though
155 2011-09-10 13:55:20 <Optimo> whoever has the most curly braces wins
156 2011-09-10 13:55:28 <Optimo> duh
157 2011-09-10 13:55:41 <luke-jr> Optimo: well, to eliminate dupes across branches, it'd have to hash each line and compare ;)
158 2011-09-10 13:55:52 <luke-jr> and curly braces will only hash to one thing
159 2011-09-10 13:55:57 <Optimo> I put my open-brace on a newline ;p
160 2011-09-10 13:56:28 <Optimo> the ages-old debate
161 2011-09-10 13:58:24 <luke-jr> Optimo: { will only hash once
162 2011-09-10 13:58:33 <luke-jr> trivial in the big picture
163 2011-09-10 13:58:49 <luke-jr> the problem I hit is, git blame requires working trees
164 2011-09-10 13:58:49 <Optimo> true
165 2011-09-10 13:59:51 <Optimo> somehow I've been duped into playing the IT guy today and I have to clean 2 PCs that got rootkit'd >< pray for me
166 2011-09-10 14:00:14 <Optimo> (I would charge mega $ but it's family)
167 2011-09-10 14:01:04 <luke-jr> Optimo: that's easy
168 2011-09-10 14:01:10 <luke-jr> it's just a fresh Debian install, right?
169 2011-09-10 14:01:17 <Optimo> heheh
170 2011-09-10 14:01:22 <Optimo> if only..
171 2011-09-10 14:01:40 <luke-jr> that's the only sane way to clean up a rootkit
172 2011-09-10 14:01:42 <Optimo> more than likely is Vista MY GAWD WHY
173 2011-09-10 14:02:21 <luke-jr> I refuse to support family who uses Windows :D
174 2011-09-10 14:02:22 <Optimo> it probably involves a pirate dvd of vista so I can do it as quick as possible -fresh install
175 2011-09-10 14:02:28 <luke-jr> XD
176 2011-09-10 14:02:39 <Optimo> hoefully before teh sun goes down
177 2011-09-10 14:02:45 <luke-jr> yeah, if I did support it, I probably would use pirated copies just to avoid the activation hassle
178 2011-09-10 14:03:00 <zeropointo> Optimo: atleast upgrade them to win7
179 2011-09-10 14:03:22 <Optimo> zeropointo: well they are family == retarded
180 2011-09-10 14:03:28 <Optimo> I don't want to train them
181 2011-09-10 14:03:38 <Optimo> I just want to finish and go camping
182 2011-09-10 14:04:50 <cjdelisle> free tech support is a trap
183 2011-09-10 14:04:57 <Optimo> I know it is
184 2011-09-10 14:05:24 <Optimo> once a year is not terrible tho.. in exchange I get a fully prepared thanksgiving meal supposedly
185 2011-09-10 14:05:33 <cjdelisle> liability insurance isn't free so why should computer repair?
186 2011-09-10 14:05:44 <Optimo> barter for food
187 2011-09-10 14:05:52 <Optimo> me fix vista for grub
188 2011-09-10 14:06:34 <cjdelisle> the problem is they use shitty software and they need someone to blame
189 2011-09-10 14:06:49 <cjdelisle> and they have your phone number and they don't have bill gates's
190 2011-09-10 14:06:51 <Optimo> one thing I am doing for sure is moving them to chrome from firefox
191 2011-09-10 14:07:10 <Optimo> firefox was the former savior, now a target
192 2011-09-10 14:07:15 <Optimo> (probably how they got rootkit)
193 2011-09-10 14:07:31 <cjdelisle> w/noscript
194 2011-09-10 14:08:17 <Optimo> merry coining all
195 2011-09-10 14:08:26 <cjdelisle> There are a lot of attacks out there but heap spraying with javascript is just so easy that noscript generally 0wns
196 2011-09-10 14:12:31 <luke-jr> Optimo: don't forget to put GPU miners in them all
197 2011-09-10 15:10:48 <sytse> ;;bc,stats
198 2011-09-10 15:10:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 144788 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 363 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 24 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1776625.43092457
199 2011-09-10 15:11:47 <sytse> hm, almost everybody seems to just go on mining even though it's no longer profitable at the spot price without ridiculous hardware
200 2011-09-10 15:13:23 <k9quaint> sytse: it depends on how much you pay for electricity
201 2011-09-10 15:17:33 <denisx> is there c code to calculate the difficulty as double from the hex value in the getwork?
202 2011-09-10 15:27:41 <leetcharmer> Difficulty goes down when less people are mining, correct?
203 2011-09-10 15:28:14 <phantomcircuit> yes
204 2011-09-10 15:28:42 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 145151-144788
205 2011-09-10 15:28:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 145151-144788 Khps, given current difficulty of 1777774.4820015 , is 0 seconds
206 2011-09-10 15:28:48 <phantomcircuit> er
207 2011-09-10 15:28:55 <phantomcircuit> ;;calc 145151-144788
208 2011-09-10 15:28:56 <gribble> 145???151 - 144???788 = 363
209 2011-09-10 15:29:03 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
210 2011-09-10 15:29:03 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 145151-144788 * 10 minutes
211 2011-09-10 15:29:07 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 145151-144788 * 10
212 2011-09-10 15:29:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 145151-144788 * 10 Khps, given current difficulty of 1777774.4820015 , is 0 seconds
213 2011-09-10 15:29:12 <phantomcircuit> nvm
214 2011-09-10 16:04:54 <xelister> what is going own with #bitcoin
215 2011-09-10 16:04:56 <xelister> who's in charge
216 2011-09-10 16:05:01 <iocor> yo
217 2011-09-10 16:05:09 <iocor> that'd be me, and you need to give me five bitcoins :)
218 2011-09-10 16:08:30 <phantomcircuit> xelister, sigh i guess i am
219 2011-09-10 16:09:35 <xelister> phantomcircuit: should we set some rules about cosbycoin?
220 2011-09-10 16:09:51 <phantomcircuit> no spamming
221 2011-09-10 16:09:56 <xelister> freedom of speach rocks, on the same time the channel can not drawn in crap
222 2011-09-10 16:09:58 <phantomcircuit> other than that i dont think so
223 2011-09-10 16:10:22 <phantomcircuit> if it continues for too long i'll just direct people to #cosbycoin
224 2011-09-10 16:10:25 <xelister> perhaps there should be some advanced channel with only pro talk and serious supporters...
225 2011-09-10 16:10:29 <xelister> well I guess this is what this -dev is.
226 2011-09-10 16:11:24 <b4epoch__> have to set up a secret room like iphone jailbreakers did
227 2011-09-10 16:11:59 <b4epoch__> wow&  my tail is growing
228 2011-09-10 16:21:39 <genjix> i've been organising a uk bitcoin meetup... http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:Bitcoin/Bitcoin_Meeting_2011-09-24#Day_0_schedule
229 2011-09-10 16:21:56 <genjix> we have bitcoin cake, bitcoin song, economists and a documentary showing as well as the talks :)
230 2011-09-10 16:23:57 <genjix> it's an open event
231 2011-09-10 16:26:47 <xelister> genjix: entry is free? whos paying for organization
232 2011-09-10 16:29:00 <phantomcircuit> xelister, why would anybody need to be paid for organization?
233 2011-09-10 16:29:18 <genjix> xelister: yes it is free
234 2011-09-10 16:29:48 <xelister> phantomcircuit: cathering, conference space, tables/chairs, audivideo, cake, etc dpeending whats pallne
235 2011-09-10 16:30:02 <phantomcircuit> lol catering
236 2011-09-10 16:30:03 <phantomcircuit> xD
237 2011-09-10 16:30:09 <xelister> dunno whats included
238 2011-09-10 16:31:43 <genjix> it's sponsored by the people providing us the space :) i'm sonsoring the cake
239 2011-09-10 16:32:53 <xelister> will the cake be goxed? :P
240 2011-09-10 16:33:00 <xelister> after all we all know what cake is
241 2011-09-10 16:33:15 <genjix> i dont get it
242 2011-09-10 16:33:20 <xelister> lie
243 2011-09-10 16:33:27 <xelister> the cake is a lie
244 2011-09-10 16:33:37 <genjix> cake pan will be greased with the skin of a child
245 2011-09-10 16:33:54 <genjix> and topped with some lovely man cream
246 2011-09-10 16:34:03 <phantomcircuit> ew
247 2011-09-10 16:34:20 <xelister> wtf genjix
248 2011-09-10 16:34:37 <xelister> yo p0s
249 2011-09-10 16:35:09 <luke-jr> list of authors of over 100 bitcoin patches, sorted by patch count: Con Kolivas, Gavin Andresen, Amir Taaki, "Kiba", Satoshi Nakamoto, Jeff Garzik, David FRANCOIS, Luke Dashjr, Pavel Karoukin, Nils Schneider, "davux", John Tobey, Daniel Folkinshteyn, Patrick McFarland, Patrick Strateman, Matt Corallo, Pieter Wuille, "m0mchil", "Artefact2", Ehud Ben-Reuven
250 2011-09-10 16:35:20 <luke-jr> in case anyone missed it :P
251 2011-09-10 16:35:36 <gavinandresen> who is con kolivas?
252 2011-09-10 16:35:42 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: conman, cgminer
253 2011-09-10 16:36:09 <gavinandresen> how do you decide which bitcoin projects are worthy of counting?
254 2011-09-10 16:36:16 <luke-jr> I don't, I count them all.
255 2011-09-10 16:36:23 <luke-jr> at least all I know about
256 2011-09-10 16:36:38 <gavinandresen> ... so if somebody wanted CosbyCoin to be on the list, all they'd need to do is fork a git repo and then....
257 2011-09-10 16:36:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: obvious troll attempts would I presume be obvious
258 2011-09-10 16:36:57 <phantomcircuit> cosbycoin totally counts
259 2011-09-10 16:37:05 <gavinandresen> Mmm.
260 2011-09-10 16:37:24 <luke-jr> also, since it's per-commit, a single commit renaming everything wouldn't do much
261 2011-09-10 16:37:31 <tcatm> gavinandresen: I got parsing contributors/collaborators data from github working to create a git-scm like list
262 2011-09-10 16:37:45 <gavinandresen> tcatm: nice!
263 2011-09-10 16:37:46 <genjix> xelister: http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Project:Bitcoin/Bitcoin_Meeting_2011-09-24#Features
264 2011-09-10 16:37:52 <genjix> don't be mad.
265 2011-09-10 16:37:52 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: FWIW, I did look at conman's commits, and they all look rather sensible. ;)
266 2011-09-10 16:37:57 <genjix> mad from jealousy.
267 2011-09-10 16:38:12 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  I'm just always looking for ways "they" will try to hack things.
268 2011-09-10 16:38:20 <luke-jr> tcatm: but that leaves out everyone who doesn't work on the Satoshi Client
269 2011-09-10 16:38:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: well, this list need not be automated ;)
270 2011-09-10 16:38:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: a human can update it monthly or something, verifying it looks sane
271 2011-09-10 16:39:11 <tcatm> luke-jr: it's pretty flexible so you could add a 2nd repo and it will merge the data correctly
272 2011-09-10 16:39:50 <gavinandresen> Mmm.  I still want a "these are the people who contributed to the satoshi client" list.  Hopefully in a year there will be too many bitcoin-related projects to even find them all, let along figure out who commited what/when/where
273 2011-09-10 16:39:54 <xelister> genjix: if I see a huge mtgox banner at this even
274 2011-09-10 16:39:58 <xelister> then I think we failed
275 2011-09-10 16:40:09 <luke-jr> tcatm: there's like 100
276 2011-09-10 16:40:10 <phantomcircuit> we will gladly accept all peoples moneyz
277 2011-09-10 16:40:10 <xelister> we are totally centralized around mtgox (they bought the forums?!)
278 2011-09-10 16:40:20 <genjix> xelister: how about a giant person dressed as a bitcoin :)
279 2011-09-10 16:40:31 <phantomcircuit> genjix, zomg yes
280 2011-09-10 16:40:35 <xelister> which is twice bad as mtgox is not particullary competent eg in security
281 2011-09-10 16:40:36 <xelister> genjix:  good =)
282 2011-09-10 16:40:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: a page like that belongs on a S.C.-specific site, not a general Bitcoin site
283 2011-09-10 16:40:44 <phantomcircuit> lol i just realized
284 2011-09-10 16:40:51 <phantomcircuit> shipping this desktop is going to be a bitch
285 2011-09-10 16:40:55 <tcatm> luke-jr: so the script could query those 100 repos if we decide to count their commits, too
286 2011-09-10 16:41:08 <luke-jr> xelister: MtGox is very competent in security
287 2011-09-10 16:41:19 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, loll
288 2011-09-10 16:41:22 <luke-jr> tcatm: shrug, my script is pretty simple :p
289 2011-09-10 16:41:25 <xelister> luke-jr: this must be why everyones emails where leaked to internet lolol
290 2011-09-10 16:41:27 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: find -type d -name '*.git' | while read r; do export GIT_DIR="$PWD/$r"; git branch | cut -b 3- | while read b; do git log --format=format:'%H %aN%n' "$b"; done; done | sort | uniq | cut -b 42- | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
291 2011-09-10 16:41:40 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: don't sink to xelister's level :p
292 2011-09-10 16:41:51 <luke-jr> anyhow, time for me to go
293 2011-09-10 16:41:54 <luke-jr> ttyl
294 2011-09-10 16:41:54 <phantomcircuit> lolllll
295 2011-09-10 16:41:58 <genjix> cya luke-jr
296 2011-09-10 16:42:02 <xelister> luke-jr: once you said mtgox is competent we all know you are trolling as always =)
297 2011-09-10 16:42:13 <luke-jr> MtGox *is* competent.
298 2011-09-10 16:42:36 <phantomcircuit> i have a bridge you might be interested in
299 2011-09-10 16:42:44 <xelister> luke-jr: can you troll in #bitcoin instead? would be good to have one quality channel.
300 2011-09-10 16:43:53 <mabus> /j #bitcoin-quality
301 2011-09-10 16:44:03 <gavinandresen> So is there a definitive answer on how the forums were hacked? WAS it a flash exploit?
302 2011-09-10 16:45:04 <phantomcircuit> how could it possibly have been a flash exploit?
303 2011-09-10 16:45:14 <genjix> gavinandresen: you could insert js in the smileys
304 2011-09-10 16:45:30 <gavinandresen> ... so just javascript insertion in an uploaded file
305 2011-09-10 16:45:31 <phantomcircuit> genjix, i dont think that's it either
306 2011-09-10 16:45:36 <phantomcircuit> final.js was included after </html> on every page
307 2011-09-10 16:45:55 <jrmithdobbs> genjix: no after talking with theymos last night that's just a bunch of FUD
308 2011-09-10 16:45:57 <genjix> phantomcircuit: nope? that's what srs said today
309 2011-09-10 16:46:04 <genjix> ah ok
310 2011-09-10 16:46:08 <phantomcircuit> i dont think he's correct
311 2011-09-10 16:46:13 <phantomcircuit> i think that was a bit of misdirection
312 2011-09-10 16:46:32 <jrmithdobbs> ya, i'm pretty sure it was a problem in their mods to smf 1.1.14 and the fact that they had a writable doc root
313 2011-09-10 16:46:40 <phantomcircuit> actually i suspect they had a rootkit since when theymos tried to restart sshd it crashed
314 2011-09-10 16:47:00 <jrmithdobbs> ya, good chance the whole thing was compromised
315 2011-09-10 16:47:02 <genjix> ok
316 2011-09-10 16:47:04 <genjix> cya
317 2011-09-10 16:47:06 <phantomcircuit> but that is just speculation
318 2011-09-10 16:47:45 <denisx> what happened? did I miss something?
319 2011-09-10 16:48:14 <phantomcircuit> no you did not
320 2011-09-10 16:49:19 <cjdelisle> cosbycoin was an inside job, nevar forget
321 2011-09-10 16:49:42 <jrmithdobbs> http://cosbycoin.com
322 2011-09-10 16:49:45 <jrmithdobbs> puddin pops for all
323 2011-09-10 16:50:16 <cjdelisle> jrmithdobbs: are you planning on using the satoshi genesys block in the "cosbycoin chain" because that would be massive lols
324 2011-09-10 16:50:31 <Guest24106> there was a lot of good developer material on the forum. How do we access that?
325 2011-09-10 16:50:36 <jrmithdobbs> cjdelisle: it is 100% chain and p2p compatible
326 2011-09-10 16:50:40 <Guest24106> are there plans to bring the forum back up ?
327 2011-09-10 16:51:09 <cjdelisle> jrmithdobbs: so it's just bitcoin with a different name?
328 2011-09-10 16:51:25 <cjdelisle> realsolid is gonna be mad
329 2011-09-10 16:51:56 <jrmithdobbs> no it's a fully interoperable crypto currency powered by the hilarity of The Cos
330 2011-09-10 16:52:02 <jrmithdobbs> it's all about framing it
331 2011-09-10 16:52:17 <cjdelisle> sure sure
332 2011-09-10 16:52:34 <cjdelisle> it has my good trolling stamp of approval
333 2011-09-10 17:02:42 <forrestv> gavinandresen, my bitcoind just hung, and i was running with DEBUG_LOCKORDER ... see http://pastebin.com/7cwiCUu6 for stack traces and a portion of the debug.log
334 2011-09-10 17:03:00 <gavinandresen> forrestv: what version of bitcoin?
335 2011-09-10 17:03:10 <forrestv> latest version from the bitcoin repo
336 2011-09-10 17:03:20 <gavinandresen> thanks
337 2011-09-10 17:04:39 <Guest24106> is the forum going to be back up at some point ?
338 2011-09-10 17:04:59 <gavinandresen> at some point... might take a day or four
339 2011-09-10 17:05:11 <Guest24106> ok. thx
340 2011-09-10 17:05:36 <tcatm> try out the bitcoin stackexchange :)
341 2011-09-10 17:06:48 <Guest24106> oh yeah, i'll check it out
342 2011-09-10 17:07:40 <AnnihilaT> or bitcoin.org.uk
343 2011-09-10 17:07:41 <cosurgi> tcatm: currency selector is nice. How with a single click can I see only PLN ?
344 2011-09-10 17:07:44 <AnnihilaT> another nice forum
345 2011-09-10 17:07:55 <Guest24106> luckily i had some tabs open with some of casacuis work
346 2011-09-10 17:08:14 <cosurgi> tcatm: unselecting 20 other currencies is quite a lot of work
347 2011-09-10 17:08:19 <Guest24106> keep me busy for a few days on fun stuff
348 2011-09-10 17:08:31 <tcatm> cosurgi: it will be improved with the next release
349 2011-09-10 17:09:50 <Guest24106> there is good history on the board we cant get anywhere else right now :(
350 2011-09-10 17:16:38 <gavinandresen> forrestv: I don't see the deadlock.  According to the gdb traces, the locks at lines 1531 and 1340 are involved, but I don't see how they could deadlock-- for both, only the cs_vNodes mutex is held.
351 2011-09-10 17:18:53 <forrestv> gavinandresen, it wasn't really a deadlock, i don't think .. lines like the ones in the debug.log snippet were being output really fast
352 2011-09-10 17:19:01 <forrestv> continuously
353 2011-09-10 17:19:31 <gavinandresen> ... yes, if you run -debug compiled with -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER every mutex lock/unlock is reported
354 2011-09-10 17:20:08 <forrestv> ah, grah ... yeah, a while after i resumed it it started responding again
355 2011-09-10 17:20:22 <gavinandresen> ok, phew, good.
356 2011-09-10 17:20:38 <forrestv> sorry!
357 2011-09-10 18:28:30 <diki> what is the formula for expected generation?
358 2011-09-10 18:29:01 <diki> expected generation per day i mean
359 2011-09-10 18:32:05 <YifuGuo> Hello I'm at the Open Video Conference Alterantive Currency Model Session now, here are the notes so far https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hDkqwzqm0UpsSW60kTpSDKiCD1TM0S-PKGXFboP_gnA/edit?hl=en_US
360 2011-09-10 18:34:03 <altamic> diki: The difficulty is automatically adjusted regularly so that the number of solutions found globally, by everyone, is constant: an average of 6 per hour. Hence 6 * 24 per day
361 2011-09-10 18:34:30 <diki> lolwut?
362 2011-09-10 18:34:36 <diki> that was not my question altamic
363 2011-09-10 18:34:45 <altamic> sorry
364 2011-09-10 18:41:18 <RAWRwins254> Hey guys. I would like to be able to have transactions work (such as with p2pool) in the windows bitcoin binary. Is this a possibility at all?
365 2011-09-10 18:47:07 <JFK911> sure why not
366 2011-09-10 18:49:18 <RAWRwins254> I honestly don't want to have to switch to Linux as my Main OS as some of my games and applications rely on windows-only programs. (I play EVE Online and run EVEHQ as an EVE API reader which requires several windows-only frameworks) :(
367 2011-09-10 18:49:57 <CutAndPaste> playing eve online is literally a fate worse than linux
368 2011-09-10 18:50:49 <diki> RAWRwins254:why did we need to hear that?
369 2011-09-10 18:51:21 <jrmithdobbs> os is tux just going to buy up every hacked bitcoin site except mybitcoin?
370 2011-09-10 18:51:26 <jrmithdobbs> s/os/so/
371 2011-09-10 18:52:11 <RAWRwins254> CutAndPaste: honestly, WoW is worse than EVE... and Eve runs on linux fine... it's EveHQ that doesn't :(
372 2011-09-10 18:53:06 <cacheson> jrmithdobbs: seems like he's got his hands full with mtgox as it is, not sure why he's doing it
373 2011-09-10 18:57:03 <CutAndPaste> RAWRwins254: ok well good luck
374 2011-09-10 19:42:08 <xelister> we have  technical discussion
375 2011-09-10 19:42:11 <xelister> about bitcoin security
376 2011-09-10 19:42:12 <YifuGuo> OVC Session ended, here's the last updated pad - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hDkqwzqm0UpsSW60kTpSDKiCD1TM0S-PKGXFboP_gnA/edit?hl=en_US&ndplr=1&pli=1
377 2011-09-10 19:42:13 <xelister> in #btc-value
378 2011-09-10 19:42:16 <xelister> fell invited everyone
379 2011-09-10 20:28:21 <wtfman> anyone know whats currently better? pushpool : poolserverJ?
380 2011-09-10 21:10:38 <xelister> #btc-value - Restoring confidence in BitCoin  - everyone is invited
381 2011-09-10 21:33:01 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 3f8fb56aee29 r47 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/WorkProxy.java: - fix from <Eleuthria>: convert submitted data to lowercase, some miners return in uppercase resulting in failed work lookup from map.
382 2011-09-10 21:46:07 <twobits> Is the change in the makefiles to link bdb 4.8 being done for any technical reasons, or just a case of using it because it is newer?
383 2011-09-10 21:49:48 <cjdelisle> did it not specify the version before and now it specifies it as 4.8?
384 2011-09-10 21:51:01 <cjdelisle> because 5.0+ uses a different file format and if bitcoin is built and linked against 5.0+, it will silently convert all of the .dat files into the 5.0 format but 4.8- will not be able to read them or convert them back.
385 2011-09-10 21:52:20 <cjdelisle> So you end up with a wallet that works on newer versions but not on older. Since it does it silently it's a major UI issue since it seems to "eat your wallet" when it starts.
386 2011-09-10 21:53:56 <twobits> before the build docs clearly specified4.7
387 2011-09-10 21:54:20 <cjdelisle> ahh, I don't know then
388 2011-09-10 21:54:34 <twobits> and 4.8 already uses different formats, and is a one way ipgrade
389 2011-09-10 21:54:36 <twobits> upgrade
390 2011-09-10 21:54:56 <twobits> and is a lot larger the 4.7, so was curious if the upgrade was based on more then versionitis
391 2011-09-10 21:55:04 <cjdelisle> oh so it's 4.7-4.8 not 4.8-5.0 ok I was confused
392 2011-09-10 21:55:35 <cjdelisle> when was the patch applied?
393 2011-09-10 21:55:43 <twobits> yeah, 5.0 probably has some api changes.
394 2011-09-10 21:56:06 <twobits> I don't know when it was applied, but I was looking over the 0.4.0rc stuff and its build files and noticed that.
395 2011-09-10 21:56:24 <twobits> so sometimes between those and 0.3.34 , lol
396 2011-09-10 21:56:40 <cjdelisle> so it's in makefile.unix?
397 2011-09-10 21:56:51 <twobits> saw it in the makefile.mingw I think
398 2011-09-10 21:57:24 <twobits> or maybe it was the gitian building set up files
399 2011-09-10 21:58:10 <cjdelisle> ahh sudo apt-get install libdb4.8++-dev
400 2011-09-10 21:59:24 <cjdelisle> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/b4ada906c03111404c29b115ab37afbad92f4cf1#L1L9
401 2011-09-10 22:00:03 <Diablo-D3> bdb has few API changes btw
402 2011-09-10 22:00:15 <Diablo-D3> every single version of bdb upgrades
403 2011-09-10 22:00:19 <Diablo-D3> even if you open the file in read only
404 2011-09-10 22:00:28 <twobits> ah, yeah,  comment doesnot even mention the bdb change
405 2011-09-10 22:00:29 <Diablo-D3> so NOT upgrade databases you intend on opening in older versions
406 2011-09-10 22:00:35 <Diablo-D3> *do
407 2011-09-10 22:00:43 <Diablo-D3> that means only use 4.7 with bitcoin
408 2011-09-10 22:00:44 <twobits> I am guessing no thought went into it , and it was just someone bumping it cause it was newer
409 2011-09-10 22:00:55 <Diablo-D3> twobits: yes, idiots are idiots
410 2011-09-10 22:01:06 <twobits> may want to tell that to whoever commitedthe build scripts then , lol
411 2011-09-10 22:01:14 <twobits> seems 0.4.0 is going to be using 4.8
412 2011-09-10 22:01:29 <Diablo-D3> twobits: thats okay
413 2011-09-10 22:01:35 <Diablo-D3> 4.8 will upgrade 4.7 files
414 2011-09-10 22:01:42 <Diablo-D3> its probably to make a uniform bdb version
415 2011-09-10 22:01:48 <Diablo-D3> everything but OSX uses 4.7
416 2011-09-10 22:01:50 <Diablo-D3> OSX uses 4.8
417 2011-09-10 22:01:55 <Diablo-D3> 4.8 is API compatible with 4.7
418 2011-09-10 22:02:04 <Diablo-D3> it just upgrades the files and you cant use them with 4.7 anymore
419 2011-09-10 22:02:24 <twobits> I actually have been making 4.7 builds under OS X,  wound up being smaller and faster.. and let me be able to copy the files between systems.
420 2011-09-10 22:02:49 <Diablo-D3> 4.7 historically has problems under OSX
421 2011-09-10 22:02:51 <Diablo-D3> not sure why though
422 2011-09-10 22:02:54 <twobits> but yeah,   seems 4.8 works, just was curious if there was now any real reaosns for the change.
423 2011-09-10 22:03:13 <twobits> hmm.. I thinkk it did from the ports, as they messed up the dual arch stuff, worked fine build from sources though.
424 2011-09-10 22:03:14 <Diablo-D3> well like I said, I assume its to sync the version across all OS
425 2011-09-10 22:03:17 <cjdelisle> There's going to have to be a big warning about this if we want to upgrade
426 2011-09-10 22:03:26 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: partly
427 2011-09-10 22:03:33 <Diablo-D3> users should not expect to ever downgrade files
428 2011-09-10 22:03:36 <twobits> yeah, it is also going to mess up things like multicoin.
429 2011-09-10 22:03:47 <Diablo-D3> twobits: not at all
430 2011-09-10 22:03:55 <Diablo-D3> any other apps would just have to rebuild their binaries
431 2011-09-10 22:04:08 <twobits> Well, it is, since they try to support many coinbases at the same time from the same build
432 2011-09-10 22:04:22 <cjdelisle> Thing about money is if there are any surprises at all, people get really panickey.
433 2011-09-10 22:04:25 <twobits> and unless nmc and such also upgrade it will no longer be able to work with both etc.
434 2011-09-10 22:04:28 <Diablo-D3> other coinbases need to upgrade to 4.8
435 2011-09-10 22:04:36 <Diablo-D3> they NEED to keep their bitcoin forks in sync period
436 2011-09-10 22:04:54 <Diablo-D3> twobits: loading files with 4.8 upgrades the db.
437 2011-09-10 22:05:02 <Diablo-D3> it just screws apps where both 4.7 and 4.8 are being used concurrently
438 2011-09-10 22:05:30 <cjdelisle> what is this about coinbases?
439 2011-09-10 22:05:35 <Diablo-D3> like I said
440 2011-09-10 22:05:40 <cjdelisle> they rely on db schema? o_O
441 2011-09-10 22:05:52 <Diablo-D3> everything that isnt bitcoin that maintains a bitcoin fork needs to upgrade
442 2011-09-10 22:06:09 <Diablo-D3> iocoin, farkcoin, whatever
443 2011-09-10 22:06:14 <Diablo-D3> they must keep their client forks in sync period
444 2011-09-10 22:06:34 <twobits> actually the won't care... since  they will just use their own db's
445 2011-09-10 22:06:41 <cjdelisle> I don't understand what the coinbase has to do with it
446 2011-09-10 22:06:48 <twobits> it is just tools can work on more the one chain that get messed up
447 2011-09-10 22:07:32 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: bitcoin stores the entire chain in a bdb db
448 2011-09-10 22:07:45 <cjdelisle> as long db stuff is never on the wire, it shouldn't matter what people choose to run
449 2011-09-10 22:07:48 <Diablo-D3> if a multi coin tool accesses it with 4.8, and the bitcoind fork itself uses 4.7
450 2011-09-10 22:08:02 <Diablo-D3> then the bitcoind fork will be unable to access it until it is upgraded to 4.8
451 2011-09-10 22:08:19 <cjdelisle> ahh, well that's on one person's computer, it will suck but it won't break thousands of people overnight
452 2011-09-10 22:08:29 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: it'll break anyone who upgrades their multi coin tool
453 2011-09-10 22:08:33 <Diablo-D3> which is why I said what I said
454 2011-09-10 22:08:42 <Diablo-D3> any and all changes in upstream bitcoin MUST be synced
455 2011-09-10 22:08:44 <Diablo-D3> period
456 2011-09-10 22:08:54 <twobits> yep, and if bitcoin switches to 4.8, they won't till be able to access it till they upgrade, but the upgrade will break it working with anything else till they also upgrade
457 2011-09-10 22:09:02 <Diablo-D3> iocoin, namecoin, anything
458 2011-09-10 22:09:12 <twobits> So I was wondering if there was any technical gains at all from the upgrade
459 2011-09-10 22:09:13 <cjdelisle> or if they just keep their data seperate or don't upgrade any of it
460 2011-09-10 22:09:13 <Diablo-D3> which is easy as fuck since we use git
461 2011-09-10 22:09:22 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: doesnt matter
462 2011-09-10 22:09:27 <Diablo-D3> ANY bdb usage upgrades it
463 2011-09-10 22:09:32 <Diablo-D3> even if you tell bdb to open read only
464 2011-09-10 22:09:35 <twobits> actually building from source, has nothing to do with git.
465 2011-09-10 22:09:42 <twobits> except for the linux build
466 2011-09-10 22:09:52 <Diablo-D3> twobits: syncing changes across different coin chain's clients involves git
467 2011-09-10 22:09:54 <twobits> the versions of bdb are just used as -l db_css
468 2011-09-10 22:10:10 <twobits> so it is all dependent on what they installed that that will find
469 2011-09-10 22:10:19 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, once everybody's shit breaks
470 2011-09-10 22:10:21 <Diablo-D3> they will upgrade
471 2011-09-10 22:10:22 <twobits> but which verison gets linked it does not.
472 2011-09-10 22:10:28 <cjdelisle> still there needs to be a warning because if people think you ate their wallet they will never upgrade again.
473 2011-09-10 22:10:43 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: no, not ate
474 2011-09-10 22:10:52 <Diablo-D3> a 0.4.0 wallet cannot be loaded on pre 0.4.0
475 2011-09-10 22:10:58 <cjdelisle> I know but they don't.
476 2011-09-10 22:10:59 <Diablo-D3> so it'll be reverse ate.
477 2011-09-10 22:11:14 <twobits> yes....   they will.  Just was wondering if any gains where made to make it worth forcing that upgrade ... so far all I have seen from 4.8 is a bigger footprint.
478 2011-09-10 22:11:39 <Diablo-D3> I see no problem with the upgrade
479 2011-09-10 22:11:45 <cjdelisle> also people might think it's a trick to force them not to downgrade because 0.4.0 has [insert evil feature here]
480 2011-09-10 22:11:45 <twobits> it is one good way to make sure people don't downgrade their client once they do upgrade.
481 2011-09-10 22:11:46 <Diablo-D3> it makes all platforms use 4.8 instead of just OSX
482 2011-09-10 22:12:02 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: they can fail to exist in reality all they want
483 2011-09-10 22:12:09 <twobits> yeah, like I said I fixed that by using 4.7 on my OSX builds.
484 2011-09-10 22:12:16 <cjdelisle> the customer is always right
485 2011-09-10 22:12:16 <Diablo-D3> this is a well documented and well understood problem with bdb
486 2011-09-10 22:12:20 <twobits> found it odd that it used 4.8 and everything else 4.7 anyway.
487 2011-09-10 22:12:29 <Diablo-D3> its a decade old+ bug.
488 2011-09-10 22:13:15 <twobits> yeah, heck the BSD OS's stick with the 1.8 bdb, though that is mostly due to the licening I think.
489 2011-09-10 22:13:33 <Diablo-D3> twobits: no
490 2011-09-10 22:13:45 <Diablo-D3> BSDs do it for very specific legacy reasons
491 2011-09-10 22:13:58 <Diablo-D3> and I think they quit doing that too
492 2011-09-10 22:14:39 <Diablo-D3> 1.8 is like 15 years old
493 2011-09-10 22:14:51 <Diablo-D3> and BDB itself is as old as I am
494 2011-09-10 22:14:54 <cjdelisle> actually, the nicest thing to do would be rename the *.dat files to *.4.dat and start with a [Bitcoin is about to upgrade your wallet, after this there is no going back, you might want to backup your wallet] [ok] [cancel]
495 2011-09-10 22:14:55 <twobits> well I was on the mailing lists when the 2.0x stuff came out, and despite Bostic trying to convince us otherwise, the choice was to fork and patch 1.8 due to the licence
496 2011-09-10 22:14:56 <Diablo-D3> well, no, Im slightly older
497 2011-09-10 22:14:59 <twobits> so not sure how you can say no
498 2011-09-10 22:15:11 <twobits> and as of about a month ago, that was still what was used when I checked.
499 2011-09-10 22:15:21 <cjdelisle> about to upgrade your wallet TO COSBYCOIN
500 2011-09-10 22:15:25 <Diablo-D3> twobits: er, didnt the license for 2.x just become sleepycat?
501 2011-09-10 22:15:37 <Diablo-D3> its 5.x that has the ugly license change
502 2011-09-10 22:15:44 <Diablo-D3> 5.x is oracalized
503 2011-09-10 22:15:57 <cjdelisle> heh
504 2011-09-10 22:16:01 <twobits> yes, which the BSB folks did not want as it was more restrictived and had gpl like creep of requring source to be offered
505 2011-09-10 22:16:09 <twobits> BSD
506 2011-09-10 22:16:27 <twobits> I was on the mailing lists at the time, took part in the that debate
507 2011-09-10 22:16:36 <twobits> so I still say that is was the issue
508 2011-09-10 22:16:53 <twobits> want to hear why you say 'no'  and what you think it was?
509 2011-09-10 22:17:36 <cjdelisle> upgrading is good but so are numbered files and warning dialogs
510 2011-09-10 22:17:58 <cjdelisle> hell, wallet.4.dat would break a bunch of wallet stealers which are in the wild :P
511 2011-09-10 22:18:03 <twobits> and on that topic, is the rumor true that a lpgled dependency is going to be allowed in?
512 2011-09-10 22:18:31 <twobits> hmm...  yeah,  just using -datadir=  would stop a lot of them!
513 2011-09-10 22:19:10 <cjdelisle> but the UI issue of "it looks like a wallet but it doesn't work OMG" would be removed by calling it wallet.4.dat
514 2011-09-10 22:21:38 <twobits> anwyay, have to go eat..
515 2011-09-10 22:22:10 <twobits> but to summarize I see good reasons for the boost update, the wx update and the minupnpc update
516 2011-09-10 22:22:42 <twobits> I question the bdb one and think it should be reconsidered it no other reason then 8 is greater then 7 is the reason for the change
517 2011-09-10 22:23:24 <cjdelisle> I like updates but I also like showing people stability.
518 2011-09-10 22:26:36 <Joric> omg omg
519 2011-09-10 22:28:28 <xelister> hi theymos
520 2011-09-10 22:28:42 <xelister> theymos:  you sold/given bitcointalk to mtgox? :{ ?
521 2011-09-10 22:28:57 <phantomcircuit> inb4 /quit
522 2011-09-10 22:29:15 <phantomcircuit> theymos, how did the investigation go?
523 2011-09-10 22:30:29 <theymos> xelister: I never owned the forum...
524 2011-09-10 22:30:35 <xelister> so who did?
525 2011-09-10 22:30:42 <makomk> sirius, wasn't it?
526 2011-09-10 22:30:42 <phantomcircuit> sirius
527 2011-09-10 22:34:17 <makomk> theymos: presumably you have at least some idea what's going on though? sirius has been damn near invisible since before I started paying attention to bitcoin.
528 2011-09-10 22:35:43 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rfa790a4f127c cgminer/main.c: Fix a rare crash in HASH_DEL due to using different mutexes to protect the data.
529 2011-09-10 22:36:50 <conman> ^_^ had no idea that would feed here
530 2011-09-10 22:37:50 <theymos> makomk: Sirius and I don't have the necessary skill to handle this, and he's been wanting to stop handling the hosting, anyway. An email was sent to the core group to see if anyone wanted to manage hosting, and Mark voluntered. I think this is fine. Sirius will keep control of the domain name.
531 2011-09-10 22:38:47 <makomk> Makes sense, though it does feel like a lot of stuff is becoming centralised at Mt Gox over time somehow...
532 2011-09-10 22:38:51 <xelister> theymos: so again, how is now mtgox/MagicalTux connected to the [almost]officiall bitcoin forum?!
533 2011-09-10 22:39:20 <xelister> because I certainly do not like mtgox our most "competent" bitcoin company attempting to buy up everything -bitcoin
534 2011-09-10 22:39:25 <theymos> He will (most likely) be running the server in the future, and he is doing the investigation.
535 2011-09-10 22:39:35 <xelister> oh right
536 2011-09-10 22:39:42 <xelister> mtgox is really good at Auditting
537 2011-09-10 22:40:42 <xelister> how about someome competent at security runs a server?
538 2011-09-10 22:41:00 <xelister> also, with this centralization, perhaps we should just rename project to mtgoxcoin and be done with it
539 2011-09-10 22:41:17 <BTCTrader_> i know this is the internet and all but you dont have to be rude.
540 2011-09-10 22:41:26 <makomk> xelister: someone competent at security? Have you forgotten that this is Bitcoin you're talking about?
541 2011-09-10 22:41:52 <makomk> It seems to send anyone competent at security running...
542 2011-09-10 22:43:08 <xelister> makomk: are you joking? bitcoin itself is the most secure thing
543 2011-09-10 22:43:33 <xelister> also we have people who like, do NOT store passwords in md5 or plaintext etc
544 2011-09-10 22:43:43 <Graet> some
545 2011-09-10 22:43:53 <xelister> pick 2 of them, let them run forum
546 2011-09-10 22:44:04 <makomk> Not joking. Bitcoin itself is secure, but the security risks of doing anything with it are enough to scare off anyone competent.
547 2011-09-10 22:44:19 <xelister> like someone else then the 1 guy causing biggest bitcoin-world security disaster so far.
548 2011-09-10 22:45:50 <c_k> xelister: isn't it a bit late for that now?
549 2011-09-10 22:47:13 <Graet> tbqh i would rather tux was running the forums than bruce - apparently he offered to buy.......
550 2011-09-10 22:47:28 <phantomcircuit> Graet, false dichotomy
551 2011-09-10 22:47:33 <xelister> c_k: why?
552 2011-09-10 22:47:41 <xelister> Graet: we have just 2 guys?
553 2011-09-10 22:47:49 <c_k> xelister: hasn't theymos made his mind up?
554 2011-09-10 22:47:53 <phantomcircuit> theymos, define "core group"
555 2011-09-10 22:47:59 <Graet> um, who else stepped 7up?
556 2011-09-10 22:48:03 <xelister> this is fucking outrage that the guys responsible for biggest bitcoin security FAILURE is taking over bitcoin almost-officiall forums!
557 2011-09-10 22:48:09 <xelister> *guy
558 2011-09-10 22:48:23 <Graet> so you do it xelister
559 2011-09-10 22:48:46 <xelister> mtgox.com - biggest security fail in bitcoin ecosystem ; ( bitomat.pl - biggest admin fail ; mybitcoin - biggest scam )
560 2011-09-10 22:48:59 <Graet> the thing i see about bitcoin is ppl talking ( a lot) and other ppl doing (a lot less ppl)
561 2011-09-10 22:49:03 <xelister> Graet: out of time
562 2011-09-10 22:49:09 <xelister> I bet there are many people that would step up.
563 2011-09-10 22:49:16 <Graet> ohhh - yes that is very common
564 2011-09-10 22:49:20 <xelister> there should be a vote
565 2011-09-10 22:49:25 <Graet> how?
566 2011-09-10 22:49:35 <Graet> in an irc chan?
567 2011-09-10 22:49:40 <xelister> in any way OTHER then giving one of the 3 biggest failures the forum
568 2011-09-10 22:49:44 <Graet> or a non-existent forum?
569 2011-09-10 22:49:50 <xelister> I would rather give form to YOU then to mtgox
570 2011-09-10 22:50:27 <xelister> theymos: why was our precious forum given to the ONE company/person that made biggest security mistake ever in bitcoin world?
571 2011-09-10 22:50:29 <Graet> i dont hacve time either, running a pool, orgab\nising a conference kids to raise etc
572 2011-09-10 22:51:08 <theymos> phantomcircuit: A dozen Bitcoiners. The same people who decided that the forum should be moved from bitcoin.org.
573 2011-09-10 22:51:25 <theymos> xelister: He has the resources and the experience necessary.
574 2011-09-10 22:51:32 <phantomcircuit> theymos, guess im not on the short list
575 2011-09-10 22:51:34 <xelister> experience in fucking up security?!
576 2011-09-10 22:51:48 <xelister> I do not want to say it looks like if he had payed someone
577 2011-09-10 22:51:49 <makomk> Does this have anything to do with the rumoured attempt to buy-up the forums, by any chance?
578 2011-09-10 22:52:01 <xelister> but it is either that or you want to on purpose sabotage bitcoin or what is this?
579 2011-09-10 22:52:03 <imsaguy> Ultimately, whoever had/has control has the ability to give that control to someone else.
580 2011-09-10 22:52:20 <phantomcircuit> makomk, that is not a rumor, someone offered 50k USD
581 2011-09-10 22:52:23 <xelister> HE IS THE IDIOT THAT uses MD5 for passwords.  and he now runs bitcointalk ?!??!?
582 2011-09-10 22:52:35 <TuxBlackEdo> YEAH
583 2011-09-10 22:52:39 <c_k> xelister: I think the correct term is "used"
584 2011-09-10 22:52:43 <makomk> Yeah, but there's an impressive lack of any kind of detail.
585 2011-09-10 22:52:46 <xelister> this is bullshit, theymos
586 2011-09-10 22:53:03 <xelister> c_k: ok, used
587 2011-09-10 22:53:20 <xelister> this is not improving situation
588 2011-09-10 22:53:36 <Graet> yes you have strongly voiced your opinion xelister - i think everyone here heard you. and no you arent
589 2011-09-10 22:53:58 <c_k> xelister: we understand your concern, thanks for sharing
590 2011-09-10 22:54:00 <theymos> Soemone offered 100k for the forum, actually.
591 2011-09-10 22:54:15 <Guest24106> and it was turned down ?
592 2011-09-10 22:54:29 <imsaguy> c_k, you speak for others?
593 2011-09-10 22:54:33 <makomk> I heard that larger offer had the caveat that it had to be linked on bitcoin.org though.
594 2011-09-10 22:54:54 <copumpkin> 100k usd or 100k btc?
595 2011-09-10 22:55:10 <c_k> imsaguy: I'm not sure him yelling any more is going to be productive
596 2011-09-10 22:55:23 <theymos> makomk: Right. copumpkin: USD
597 2011-09-10 22:55:26 <copumpkin> ah
598 2011-09-10 22:56:04 <Guest24106> oh
599 2011-09-10 22:56:06 <xelister> sorry for yealing but this is just mind bloggling - forum given to the guy that  1) is proven careless and incopetent security wise, responsible for biggest securiyt fail EVER in bitcoin   2) already heaving 90% monopol on bitcoin traffic and now he gets the forum too?
600 2011-09-10 22:56:14 <makomk> Anyway, I should sleep >.>
601 2011-09-10 22:56:30 <mtrlt> xelister: don't try to convince others. it's useless >_>
602 2011-09-10 22:56:46 <Graet> 1) can never change? if so why did ppl flock back to sony?
603 2011-09-10 22:57:29 <xelister> Graet: I will never in my life buy shit from sony.    1) can not change this is a certain mindset. You never ever ever ever even consider doing things like cleartext-passwords,  or yo do.
604 2011-09-10 22:57:58 <xelister> you are a securit-cearing person or not.  Mtgox/MagicallTux is not
605 2011-09-10 22:58:22 <Graet> so ikts not possible to learn and change ? ok. gunna take kids for a picnic, nothing is being achieved here
606 2011-09-10 22:58:29 <c_k> xelister: once again, you might have the tense wrong there
607 2011-09-10 22:58:55 <BTCTrader_> xelister is now on my ignore
608 2011-09-10 22:58:57 <diki> just to ask
609 2011-09-10 22:59:01 <xelister> he might have learned about sha1 vs md5...
610 2011-09-10 22:59:03 <diki> when bitcoin pregenerates addresses
611 2011-09-10 22:59:10 <xelister> but he knew about sha1 / sha256 for long long time
612 2011-09-10 22:59:24 <diki> if one of those addresses was used in the blockchain(prior to pre-generating them) it will show up on the client right?
613 2011-09-10 22:59:32 <copumpkin> xelister: don't hold back! tell us how you really feel
614 2011-09-10 22:59:42 <imsaguy> yeah diki
615 2011-09-10 22:59:43 <xelister> so this is not question of learning new security technique (10 years too late anyway), it is imo the attitude towards secuirty, and that does not change usually -- c_k
616 2011-09-10 22:59:45 <mtrlt> diki: yea you'll get access to the money stored in there.
617 2011-09-10 22:59:49 <imsaguy> but the chances of that happening are approach 0
618 2011-09-10 22:59:50 <mtrlt> cool, huh?
619 2011-09-10 22:59:56 <imsaguy> -are
620 2011-09-10 23:00:10 <mtrlt> chances of that happening actually approach 1, given enough time ;-)
621 2011-09-10 23:00:23 <imsaguy> mtrlt, by then, we'd be on a new standard
622 2011-09-10 23:00:24 <mtrlt> fortunately (according to current knowledge), the universe will not have enough time.
623 2011-09-10 23:00:57 <mtrlt> oh but i forgot that all addresses will never be used at the same time
624 2011-09-10 23:00:59 <diki> mtrlt:and does bitcoin check if there are any dupe addresses when its pregenerating?
625 2011-09-10 23:01:10 <mtrlt> diki: no, how would it?
626 2011-09-10 23:01:23 <diki> well, if it pregenerates 100 bitcoin addresses on a new wallet
627 2011-09-10 23:01:27 <c_k> xelister: I tend to agree somewhat, but you're making statements that are assumptions or mere observations of end results without knowing the processes going on that you do not hear about
628 2011-09-10 23:01:29 <mtrlt> diki: if you and i generate the same address but we don't use it instantly..
629 2011-09-10 23:01:40 <diki> no you misunderstand
630 2011-09-10 23:01:58 <mtrlt> pregenerates?
631 2011-09-10 23:02:00 <mtrlt> what is that
632 2011-09-10 23:02:03 <diki> keypool
633 2011-09-10 23:02:09 <mtrlt> em yeah
634 2011-09-10 23:02:12 <mtrlt> sorry, misread >_>
635 2011-09-10 23:02:14 <diki> #Pre-generate this many public/private key pairs, so wallet backups will be valid for
636 2011-09-10 23:02:15 <diki> #both prior transactions and several dozen future transactions.
637 2011-09-10 23:02:18 <mtrlt> read it as "pregenerates 100 bitcoins"
638 2011-09-10 23:02:27 <xelister> c_k: facts: DID did the biggest security failure in bitcoin.  they ARE the monopol (90% exchange).   And now they also grab the forum.  Seems very anti-decentralisation to me.
639 2011-09-10 23:02:35 <xelister> *they DID
640 2011-09-10 23:02:50 <mtrlt> xelister: so, what are you gonna do about decentralizing bitcoin?
641 2011-09-10 23:02:59 <diki> point is, when bitcoin makes 100 new addresses does it check if a dupe is already in the wallet?
642 2011-09-10 23:03:15 <mtrlt> diki: i'd assume no, because it is next to impossible.
643 2011-09-10 23:03:21 <mtrlt> but i don't know.
644 2011-09-10 23:03:28 <xelister> mtrlt: forum should be given to other party then the monopol
645 2011-09-10 23:03:30 <diki> what would happen if two addresses exist within the same wallet?
646 2011-09-10 23:03:32 <mtrlt> i mean having a dupe is next to impossible
647 2011-09-10 23:03:41 <mtrlt> xelister: free market
648 2011-09-10 23:03:56 <mtrlt> diki: try it :P
649 2011-09-10 23:03:57 <xelister> mtrlt: I understand the forum was just "given"
650 2011-09-10 23:04:06 <diki> mtrlt:my wallet is already 88 megabytes...
651 2011-09-10 23:04:10 <diki> cant take anymore hehe :D
652 2011-09-10 23:04:12 <mtrlt> diki: testnet
653 2011-09-10 23:04:18 <imsaguy> xelister, are you trying to say 'conflict of interest'?
654 2011-09-10 23:04:19 <mtrlt> and generate a new wallet there :p
655 2011-09-10 23:04:26 <xelister> theymos: was the forum http://bitcointalk.org/ given or sold for something to mtgox?
656 2011-09-10 23:04:33 <theymos> xelister: No.
657 2011-09-10 23:04:39 <theymos> xelister: Given, I mean.
658 2011-09-10 23:04:47 <mtrlt> not given or given?
659 2011-09-10 23:04:47 <xelister> just given for free?
660 2011-09-10 23:04:49 <diki> theymos:what language is BA written in?
661 2011-09-10 23:04:49 <mtrlt> :p
662 2011-09-10 23:04:56 <diki> *BE
663 2011-09-10 23:05:03 <diki> be=blockexplorer
664 2011-09-10 23:05:11 <xelister> theymos: who was owning the bitcointalk.org ?
665 2011-09-10 23:05:15 <theymos> diki: PHP. I'm currently rewriting the backend in C++, though.
666 2011-09-10 23:05:21 <copumpkin> :O
667 2011-09-10 23:05:21 <theymos> xelister: Sirius
668 2011-09-10 23:05:26 <copumpkin> C++
669 2011-09-10 23:05:26 <diki> theymos:i tried opening the wallet myself with dba
670 2011-09-10 23:05:31 <xelister> sirius: hi?
671 2011-09-10 23:05:32 <diki> but i got tons of errors
672 2011-09-10 23:05:38 <diki> any ideas what i am missing?
673 2011-09-10 23:05:38 <xelister> and who now owns the domain?
674 2011-09-10 23:05:52 <diki> i used dba4 handler
675 2011-09-10 23:06:04 <copumpkin> dba?
676 2011-09-10 23:06:21 <copumpkin> it's bdb
677 2011-09-10 23:06:31 <theymos> diki: BBE works using using the getblockbycount patch, and my new version works by talking to Bitcoin over the network. I'm not familiar with the databse.
678 2011-09-10 23:06:43 <diki> oh so you use getworks?
679 2011-09-10 23:06:50 <theymos> No, getblockbycount.
680 2011-09-10 23:06:58 <diki> no i mean getworks in general
681 2011-09-10 23:07:08 <diki> i.e communicating over the rpc
682 2011-09-10 23:07:20 <theymos> Yeah, though I wouldn't call that "getworks"...
683 2011-09-10 23:07:38 <diki> then how do you search for...addresses and such?
684 2011-09-10 23:07:50 <diki> getblock patches?
685 2011-09-10 23:08:00 <c_k> xelister: who owns the domain? A: http://www.who.is/whois/bitcointalk.org/
686 2011-09-10 23:08:31 <denisx> why has the bit coin chart page another difficulty than the block explorer page?
687 2011-09-10 23:08:36 <semb> Anyone here understand transaction updates?
688 2011-09-10 23:09:05 <imsaguy> c_k, that page is useless
689 2011-09-10 23:09:11 <imsaguy> the info is privacy listed
690 2011-09-10 23:09:46 <c_k> imsaguy: the domain is technically owned by Register4Less Privacy Advocate
691 2011-09-10 23:09:54 <c_k> no-one else
692 2011-09-10 23:10:03 <diki> theymos:if it isnt much trouble for you, can you link me to all the patches you use? I've been dying to make myself a small blockexplorer for personal use
693 2011-09-10 23:10:49 <c_k> diki: what about ABE?
694 2011-09-10 23:10:54 <diki> abe?
695 2011-09-10 23:11:01 <c_k> diki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Abe
696 2011-09-10 23:11:43 <diki> will check it out
697 2011-09-10 23:11:44 <xelister> c_k: this whois does not seem to resolve to any guy identificable on irc... do you know who it is
698 2011-09-10 23:12:14 <xelister> right, I ment is sirius or mtgox controling bitcointalk.org domain?
699 2011-09-10 23:12:29 <nanotube> afaik, theymos is the head honcho of bitcoin forums
700 2011-09-10 23:12:39 <xelister> honcho?
701 2011-09-10 23:12:57 <theymos> diki: This is the patch I use: http://pastebin.com/G5X40CNu . It's slightly modified from jgarzik's version. In particular, it has some redundant data and values are returned as strings instead of doubles.
702 2011-09-10 23:13:27 <c_k> xelister: the guy who is doing it now is merely involved with MtGox, that doesn't mean MtGox is involved at all.
703 2011-09-10 23:13:40 <nanotube> theymos: what did i miss, is mtux taking over the hosting of bitcoin forums?
704 2011-09-10 23:13:41 <diki> theymos:thanks mate
705 2011-09-10 23:13:47 <theymos> nanotube: Yes.
706 2011-09-10 23:14:01 <diki> Also, i havent been reading much about the forums
707 2011-09-10 23:14:05 <diki> but why are they down?
708 2011-09-10 23:14:11 <nanotube> theymos: hm, interesting.
709 2011-09-10 23:14:44 <xelister> nanotube: well do something... this is an outrage
710 2011-09-10 23:15:02 <xelister> in moments like this even I start to loose confidence in this goxcoin project.
711 2011-09-10 23:15:20 <nanotube> xelister: haha, well, i have no desire to manage bitcointalk.org either. do you? (and do you have the time and expertise to back it up?)
712 2011-09-10 23:15:25 <xelister> 3 hacks destroy trust in bitcoin project... and then the first responsible guy grabs the main forum! awesome.... wtf
713 2011-09-10 23:15:33 <imsaguy> lets face it
714 2011-09-10 23:15:35 <imsaguy> the forums suck anyway
715 2011-09-10 23:15:39 <imsaguy> too many trolls
716 2011-09-10 23:16:41 <xelister> forum is still forum
717 2011-09-10 23:16:45 <xelister> the "almost" officiall one
718 2011-09-10 23:17:32 <c_k> bitcointalk.org it is now simply the most popular bitcoin forum, nothing more.
719 2011-09-10 23:17:35 <xelister> if you think bitcoin will do well with 1 company owning everything semi-officiall about it... then something went very wrong on your libertarian/p2p/distributed-projects education ;)
720 2011-09-10 23:18:05 <xelister> right, 1 company owning most officiall forum (90% taffic) and 90% of exchange volume
721 2011-09-10 23:18:10 <theymos> Bitcoin Block Explorer is also usually hosted by MtGox. ;)
722 2011-09-10 23:18:18 <nanotube> xelister: well, if you can find someone else who's trustworthy and has the experience/desire to do it, you're more than welcome to throw his candidacy into the ring
723 2011-09-10 23:18:27 <xelister> but expeerience in what?
724 2011-09-10 23:18:30 <xelister> in getting owned?
725 2011-09-10 23:18:53 <xelister> in using secuirty messures that 17 years old with IT training would stay away from?
726 2011-09-10 23:19:15 <xelister> mtgox is the worst possible person ever to hold forum
727 2011-09-10 23:19:40 <xelister> given hacking and monopol
728 2011-09-10 23:19:54 <kinlo> at least they're trying to help the community
729 2011-09-10 23:19:56 <nanotube> well, i don't see you jumping at the chance to manage the forums :)
730 2011-09-10 23:20:12 <xelister> kinlo: they are earning 100,000 USD per month, of course they try to "help"
731 2011-09-10 23:20:16 <WakiMiko> i sold all my coins because the forums got hacekd xd
732 2011-09-10 23:20:26 <WakiMiko> x to the d
733 2011-09-10 23:20:56 <kinlo> xelister: feel free to start your own exchange