1 2011-09-16 00:36:43 <dikidera> was wondering
  2 2011-09-16 00:37:07 <dikidera> are there any other bitcoin clients with server mode? when i say bitcoin clients i mean forks or written in other languages?
  3 2011-09-16 00:37:28 <dikidera> bitcoinj is one, but it has no server mode i.e solo mining
  4 2011-09-16 00:37:41 <theymos> No.
  5 2011-09-16 00:37:47 <theymos> It's very difficult to write one.
  6 2011-09-16 00:38:07 <dikidera> can you tell me where to look in the code where a getwork is generated?
  7 2011-09-16 00:39:09 <theymos> The message is put together in rpc.cpp.
  8 2011-09-16 00:39:16 <Matth1a31> ;seen gavinandresen
  9 2011-09-16 00:39:44 <luke-jr> dikidera: mining doesn't belong in clients
 10 2011-09-16 00:40:00 <nanotube> Matth1a31: ;;
 11 2011-09-16 00:40:38 <jjjrmy> Selling BitPizza.net. Anyone interested?
 12 2011-09-16 00:40:45 <Matth1a31> ;;seen gavinandresen
 13 2011-09-16 00:40:46 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 hours, 36 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> ... so if a peer doesn't HAVE the blockchain....
 14 2011-09-16 00:41:12 <Matth1a31> nanotube: =)
 15 2011-09-16 01:00:37 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr coinbaser * r96f969..4e6e22 bitcoind-personal/src/ (rpc.cpp main.h main.cpp): (5 commits)
 16 2011-09-16 04:50:49 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r12e99c83ddf3 cgminer/adl.c: Initialise all the iSizes of the ADL structures for completeness.
 17 2011-09-16 04:50:51 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r5a24c2829a83 cgminer/adl.c: Try to set temperature regardless of whether get fanspeed fails. This may need to be reverted if it causes problems.
 18 2011-09-16 05:42:04 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r212 /wiki/UsingMaven.wiki: Edited wiki page UsingMaven through web user interface.
 19 2011-09-16 05:50:29 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r213 /trunk/AUTHORS: Add Steve to the AUTHORS file.
 20 2011-09-16 07:16:56 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rca6ce8b / lib/blockchainmanager.js : Don't start multiple block chain downloads. Fixes #33. - http://git.io/s2WMMw
 21 2011-09-16 07:16:57 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rf7921b6 / lib/transactionstore.js : Fix transaction store callback handling. - http://git.io/qN7q6w
 22 2011-09-16 07:31:08 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
 23 2011-09-16 07:31:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 145577 | Current Difficulty: 1755425.3203287 | Next Difficulty At Block: 147167 | Next Difficulty In: 1590 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1736988.87430903
 24 2011-09-16 07:35:41 <flying> hooray for tor
 25 2011-09-16 07:59:45 <cuqa> hi
 26 2011-09-16 08:00:13 <cuqa> what is that timeout setting in bitcoind actually doing?
 27 2011-09-16 08:10:44 <tcatm> cuqa: which?
 28 2011-09-16 08:11:06 <tcatm> rpctimeout?
 29 2011-09-16 08:11:49 <cuqa> no, just timeout
 30 2011-09-16 08:12:07 <cuqa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin
 31 2011-09-16 08:14:12 <tcatm> It is used when connecting to other nodes.
 32 2011-09-16 08:14:37 <tcatm> i.e. if the other node doesn't respond before the timeout another node is tried
 33 2011-09-16 08:15:08 <cuqa> i see. thanks
 34 2011-09-16 08:18:54 <CIA-101> poolserverj: More block change updates
 35 2011-09-16 08:18:54 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 99169b6c5968 r72 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
 36 2011-09-16 10:14:11 <cuqa> mh, when using bitcoind 4diff patch, can I disable long polling in pushpool's config file?
 37 2011-09-16 10:14:28 <cuqa> or does it somehow work together?
 38 2011-09-16 10:15:41 <gmaxwell> 'somehow'? I suggest you don't apply patches that you don't understand!
 39 2011-09-16 10:24:37 <cuqa> oh, I am sorry
 40 2011-09-16 10:24:45 <cuqa> i should better turn my pc completely off
 41 2011-09-16 10:25:18 <gmaxwell> cuqa: unplug it, it's the only way to be sure.
 42 2011-09-16 10:26:16 <gmaxwell> But really, the early versions of that patch basically attacked the network. Your question indicated that you don't have a clue how its long polling feature works. So why bother running it?
 43 2011-09-16 10:32:20 <cuqa> because I have read at multiple sources that their Long Polling is superior to blkmond
 44 2011-09-16 10:33:41 <cuqa> I mean its not like I would have really understand how blkmond has worked, so I trust that ppl if they say with the patch its better
 45 2011-09-16 10:46:42 <flying> stupid irc client.
 46 2011-09-16 11:55:11 <makomk> cuqa: it only replaces blkmond, you still need to enable long polling in the pushpool config and you need to set the correct option in bitcoind to enable it too.
 47 2011-09-16 11:55:56 <cuqa> alright, thx
 48 2011-09-16 12:26:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
 49 2011-09-16 12:48:59 <MrSam> amazonaws for irc
 50 2011-09-16 12:49:03 <MrSam> you rock :)
 51 2011-09-16 12:49:21 <MrSam> new instances for each channel i hope
 52 2011-09-16 12:49:37 <Nightblade> heh
 53 2011-09-16 12:50:45 <MrSamSon> :P
 54 2011-09-16 12:50:50 <MrSamSon> eu-west rules !
 55 2011-09-16 13:05:52 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
 56 2011-09-16 14:36:51 <jgarzik> Please test: bitcoin 0.4.0 release candidate #2 posted at https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.4.0/test/
 57 2011-09-16 14:41:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ^^
 58 2011-09-16 14:41:22 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: nice!
 59 2011-09-16 14:41:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: github's downloads are a flat-file hierarchy...  do we really have to use it?  :(
 60 2011-09-16 14:41:47 <gavinandresen> No, we don't have to.
 61 2011-09-16 14:41:48 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: that will quickly become a stupidly large list
 62 2011-09-16 14:42:37 <gavinandresen> The only reason I'd like to is to get https downloads, for that little bit of extra security.
 63 2011-09-16 14:43:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I thought github downloads were not https, after all?  Could have sworn I saw that comment float by...
 64 2011-09-16 14:43:34 <gavinandresen> They redirect to a http: EC2, but said it was OK if we linked directly to the https: EC2
 65 2011-09-16 14:43:43 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ah!
 66 2011-09-16 14:44:06 <gavinandresen> The only downside is the direct-download url is unfriendly.
 67 2011-09-16 14:44:14 <gavinandresen> And looks untrustworthy, so....
 68 2011-09-16 14:44:50 <gavinandresen> e.g.    https://d24z2fz21y4fag.cloudfront.net/downloads/bitcoin/bitcoin/bitcoin-0.4rc2.dmg
 69 2011-09-16 14:45:48 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: anyway, this week was definitely a busy week for me, sorry about the delay.  My release engineering is pretty stupid simple:  the buildbots create linux and windows zips.  I unpack the linux into a bitcoin-$VERSION directory, then tar it.  I unpack the windows into bitcoin-$VERSION, remove the included *win32-setup.exe, then zip it back up.  Then create bitcoin-$VERSION-src.tar.gz using instructions in do
 70 2011-09-16 14:45:52 <gavinandresen> Then again, maybe an untrustworthy-looking URL would be a good thing if it made people stop and compute shasums
 71 2011-09-16 14:46:11 <imsaguy2> what's the difference between the 'all transactions' tab and the 'sent/received' tab?
 72 2011-09-16 14:46:15 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I doubt the majority would bother, even with a weird URL :)
 73 2011-09-16 14:46:34 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: but if a minority DID bother it might be a good early warning system
 74 2011-09-16 14:46:50 <jgarzik> true
 75 2011-09-16 14:47:02 <tcatm> imsaguy2: all transactions will show generated coins
 76 2011-09-16 14:47:08 <imsaguy2> thanks tcatm
 77 2011-09-16 14:47:39 <imsaguy2> Why isn't there an associated tab for 'generated coins' then?
 78 2011-09-16 14:47:52 <gavinandresen> imsaguy2: because we all hate wxwidgets
 79 2011-09-16 14:47:59 <imsaguy2> haha
 80 2011-09-16 14:49:55 <imsaguy2> So you want/would accept a patch that adds that tab?
 81 2011-09-16 14:50:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: anyway, the ^^^ is my process.  if I ever become a blocker, someone else can run with that simple process
 82 2011-09-16 14:50:43 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it's mainly simple repackaging to get the bitcoin-$VERSION directory inside the zips and tarballs
 83 2011-09-16 14:51:18 <tcatm> imsaguy2: wouldn't make much sense now that most people use pools
 84 2011-09-16 14:51:52 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: and I can still upload to github right now, if you'd like.    I just don't like the flat hierarchy much, is my comment.
 85 2011-09-16 14:52:11 <jgarzik> now is the time, if we want github uploads
 86 2011-09-16 14:52:33 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: thanks.  Yes, I'd like to try github for downloads, see if we like it.
 87 2011-09-16 14:54:45 <jgarzik> I wonder what github's disk limits are
 88 2011-09-16 14:54:48 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: re: flat hierarchy:  removing old releases from github could be part of the normal release process in the future.  We really don't want people downloading really old releases anyway (although it is nice to be able to track the number of downloads of releases over time)
 89 2011-09-16 14:55:48 <jgarzik> I <heart> HTML5
 90 2011-09-16 14:56:33 <copumpkin> e
 91 2011-09-16 14:56:59 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: hmm, github has soft disk space limits... "if you find yourself needing more disk space for a legitimate use, email support@github.com"
 92 2011-09-16 14:57:42 <tcatm> 300MB soft-limit if we use the free plan
 93 2011-09-16 14:58:13 <gavinandresen> plenty of room for downloads
 94 2011-09-16 14:58:52 <tcatm> one release is about 30MB (2x win, linux, osx)
 95 2011-09-16 14:59:01 <jgarzik> still at zero percent.  time for lunch, will check back afterwards for upload progress.
 96 2011-09-16 14:59:14 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: weird, was quick for me a couple days ago
 97 2011-09-16 14:59:38 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: btw, after uploading bitcoin-0.4.0rc2-macosx.dmg, I'll remove bitcoin-0.4rc2.dmg
 98 2011-09-16 14:59:45 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: should be byte-for-byte the same file
 99 2011-09-16 14:59:55 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: cool, thanks
100 2011-09-16 15:00:04 <dikidera> so
101 2011-09-16 15:00:06 <dikidera> "According to Webroot, Mebromi targets Award BIOS and attaches itself to it so it can infect a client computer over and over again. The malware then infects the master boot record to be able to infect winlogon.exe or winnt.exe to be able to use Windows to download additional malware. There is no easy way to get rid of Mebromi at this time as traditional anti-virus software won't reach down
102 2011-09-16 15:00:35 <dikidera> screwed?
103 2011-09-16 15:00:37 <dikidera> i have award...
104 2011-09-16 15:16:29 <helo> don't use windows?
105 2011-09-16 15:19:42 <flying> kittens!
106 2011-09-16 15:23:35 <dikidera> helo:while this targets windows
107 2011-09-16 15:23:44 <dikidera> it can say..target linux as well
108 2011-09-16 15:23:47 <dikidera> i think ubuntu
109 2011-09-16 15:24:10 <dikidera> and while an asap patch will be issued
110 2011-09-16 15:24:27 <dikidera> it could by the time they update, steal a bitcoin wallet
111 2011-09-16 15:31:28 <joepie91> dikidera, that depends on whether the malware would be able to install itself on linux in the first place
112 2011-09-16 15:31:39 <joepie91> it's not like windows has this super good security or anything
113 2011-09-16 15:31:40 <joepie91> >.>
114 2011-09-16 15:33:48 <imsaguy2> well, now that users aren't running as root all the time, things have gotten better
115 2011-09-16 15:34:19 <imsaguy2> the primary infection method of windows is no longer the OS itself, but rather security vulnerabilities in flash/java/reader
116 2011-09-16 15:35:11 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: Windows allows those to have security vulns ;)
117 2011-09-16 15:35:32 <luke-jr> to be fair, Linux does too
118 2011-09-16 15:35:46 <luke-jr> a more sensible OS would isolate each application ;)
119 2011-09-16 15:36:24 <luke-jr> and force them to go through the OS's standard Open/Save dialogs to get a read/write handle to the user's files
120 2011-09-16 15:36:44 <neofutur> I d not even try to have a browser and a wallet on the same computer
121 2011-09-16 15:36:57 <neofutur> or at least noton the same user account
122 2011-09-16 15:37:07 <luke-jr> if Intel wasn't a jerk, you could even run each app in a dedicated VM :p
123 2011-09-16 15:37:28 <luke-jr> actually, maybe even with intel being a jerk
124 2011-09-16 15:38:39 <luke-jr> but if Intel didn't keep IOMMUs away from commodity hardware, you could run your "real" OS in a VM with direct hw access, and have the wallet on the host OS providing the VM with a locked-down interface
125 2011-09-16 15:38:57 <luke-jr> it'd almost be like the wallet was a hardware chip
126 2011-09-16 15:39:28 <imsaguy2> luke-jr, the virtualization limitation isn't just intel, its M$
127 2011-09-16 15:39:39 <imsaguy2> they make you license every damn virtualized OS
128 2011-09-16 15:39:43 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: nonsense
129 2011-09-16 15:39:53 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: you just run the host OS as a stripped down Linux
130 2011-09-16 15:40:10 <luke-jr> and only license the VM
131 2011-09-16 15:40:12 <imsaguy2> fine, but the oem license you get covers the host, not the virtualized OS
132 2011-09-16 15:40:34 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: so warez it
133 2011-09-16 15:40:37 <imsaguy2> lol
134 2011-09-16 15:40:44 <imsaguy2> luke-jr, are you suggesting somethign illegal?
135 2011-09-16 15:40:45 <luke-jr> they can't legally tie the OS to hardware
136 2011-09-16 15:40:55 <luke-jr> I'm suggesting a grey workaround for an illegal restriction
137 2011-09-16 15:40:56 <luke-jr> ;)
138 2011-09-16 15:41:27 <luke-jr> doctrine of first sale: you can resell anything you buy as-is
139 2011-09-16 15:41:36 <luke-jr> so resell your "OEM" Windows to a friend, and vice-versa
140 2011-09-16 15:41:43 <luke-jr> then fair use kicks in to justify warez
141 2011-09-16 15:42:00 <imsaguy2> nah
142 2011-09-16 15:42:06 <imsaguy2> there's anti transfer clauses
143 2011-09-16 15:42:15 <luke-jr> licenses can't override laws
144 2011-09-16 15:42:21 <imsaguy2> you can't resell oem unless you sell everything that came with it
145 2011-09-16 15:42:27 <luke-jr> it's illegal for a license to forbid resale
146 2011-09-16 15:42:36 <luke-jr> also, EULAs have no legal force
147 2011-09-16 15:42:48 <imsaguy2> right.
148 2011-09-16 15:42:58 <imsaguy2> They spend all that time and energy for naught.
149 2011-09-16 15:43:01 <luke-jr> it's all fear tactics to force you to play their game
150 2011-09-16 15:43:21 <luke-jr> besides, there's no real reason to run Windows in the first place ;)
151 2011-09-16 15:43:42 <imsaguy2> oh yeah?
152 2011-09-16 15:44:12 <luke-jr> I sure don't miss it.
153 2011-09-16 15:44:20 <luke-jr> I've been Windows-free for like 8 years now, at least
154 2011-09-16 15:44:23 <luke-jr> probably longer
155 2011-09-16 15:44:28 <lianj> maybe if youre too happy, use windows to bring thing to a level again
156 2011-09-16 15:44:32 <imsaguy2> Just because you don't miss it, doesn't mean 'theres no real reason'
157 2011-09-16 15:44:36 <luke-jr> lianj: LOL
158 2011-09-16 15:44:47 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: give ONE valid reason
159 2011-09-16 15:44:58 <Dagger3> I've been using linux for the past week or two. I have to say: at least Windows could manage to do multiple monitors
160 2011-09-16 15:45:07 <imsaguy2> Management of multiple machines is 1000x easier
161 2011-09-16 15:45:13 <luke-jr> Dagger3: that's probably your fault for having a crappy video card ;)
162 2011-09-16 15:45:18 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: not true
163 2011-09-16 15:45:21 <gjs278> hahaha
164 2011-09-16 15:45:26 <gjs278> you think management of multiple machines
165 2011-09-16 15:45:29 <gjs278> is easier on WINDOWS
166 2011-09-16 15:45:31 <gjs278> are you retarded
167 2011-09-16 15:45:36 <Dagger3> on Linux, you have to sacrifice either the ability to drag windows between monitors, or 2d hardware acceleration. that's a pretty crap choice
168 2011-09-16 15:45:50 <luke-jr> Dagger3: I highly doubt that.
169 2011-09-16 15:45:58 <joepie91> Dagger: what kind of card?
170 2011-09-16 15:46:03 <luke-jr> last time I messed with 2 monitors, I had fully functional 3D accel on both
171 2011-09-16 15:46:10 <luke-jr> and dragged across them fine
172 2011-09-16 15:46:20 <phantomcircuit> WHY IS .click() NOT DEFINED ON <a> ELEMENTS
173 2011-09-16 15:46:21 <joepie91> I have no issues with my card in multiple monitor mode and 3d acceleration, using catalyst (after installing the 'official' one rather than the 'patched' one which actually broke stuff)
174 2011-09-16 15:46:22 <phantomcircuit> >.>
175 2011-09-16 15:46:33 <joepie91> phantomcircuit, you sure you're using jquery? :P
176 2011-09-16 15:46:37 <luke-jr> joepie91: that's not really Linux anyhow
177 2011-09-16 15:46:39 <phantomcircuit> lololol
178 2011-09-16 15:46:44 <Dagger3> I'm using an ATI HD6800 and HD3300
179 2011-09-16 15:46:46 <phantomcircuit> joepie91, it should be there regardless
180 2011-09-16 15:46:55 <luke-jr> Dagger3: with real Linux, ie not catalyst?
181 2011-09-16 15:47:02 <imsaguy2> phantomcircuitn, you must be on windows
182 2011-09-16 15:47:04 <joepie91> Dagger3: I have a HD3650, should work fine with official catalyst drivers.
183 2011-09-16 15:47:09 <imsaguy2> after all, linux is perfect
184 2011-09-16 15:47:11 <Dagger3> xrandr can't cope with multiple GPUs, and Xinerama can't cope with 2d acceleration
185 2011-09-16 15:47:12 <joepie91> HD6800, I'm not sure
186 2011-09-16 15:47:22 <phantomcircuit> imsaguy2, lol firefox is anything but perfect
187 2011-09-16 15:47:29 <luke-jr> Dagger3: Xinerama is obsolete; xrandr works fine
188 2011-09-16 15:47:30 <imsaguy2> ooh
189 2011-09-16 15:47:30 <joepie91> phantomcircuit, click() is a jquery function, as far as I am aware
190 2011-09-16 15:47:33 <imsaguy2> thats a double wammy
191 2011-09-16 15:47:35 <joepie91> not a native javascript function
192 2011-09-16 15:47:41 <Dagger3> luke-jr: I'm using fglrx, admittedly, but I'm about 85% sure the situation is identical for the xorg drivers
193 2011-09-16 15:47:43 <luke-jr> Dagger3: try with real Linux, not catalyst
194 2011-09-16 15:47:46 <joepie91> (but don't pin me on it)
195 2011-09-16 15:48:01 <luke-jr> Dagger3: also, I used multiple GPUs with catalyst
196 2011-09-16 15:48:05 <phantomcircuit> imsaguy2, they rejected my perfectly functional socks5 user/pass auth patch
197 2011-09-16 15:48:09 <phantomcircuit> joepie91, http://krook.org/jsdom/HTMLAnchorElement.html
198 2011-09-16 15:48:10 <luke-jr> before I moved my Radeon to a VM
199 2011-09-16 15:48:12 <phantomcircuit> joepie91, nope :P
200 2011-09-16 15:48:13 <Dagger3> luke-jr: yes, it might be obsolete, but *xrandr can't do multiple GPUs*, so it's my only choice if I want to drag windows between monitors
201 2011-09-16 15:48:13 <gjs278> I have used multiple gpus on catalyst
202 2011-09-16 15:48:19 <luke-jr> Dagger3: yes, it can
203 2011-09-16 15:48:33 <lianj> phantomcircuit: <a onclick="alert('COINS');">
204 2011-09-16 15:48:33 <luke-jr> oh, dragging stuff across different GPUs O.o
205 2011-09-16 15:48:38 <luke-jr> admittedly, I never tried that one
206 2011-09-16 15:48:54 <luke-jr> my monitors were on the same GPU
207 2011-09-16 15:48:59 <joepie91> phantomcircuit, pretty sure that's IE-specific
208 2011-09-16 15:49:06 <joepie91> not entirely sure though
209 2011-09-16 15:49:40 <phantomcircuit> IT IS
210 2011-09-16 15:49:45 <joepie91> "Prior to Gecko 5.0 (Firefox 5.0 / Thunderbird 5.0 / SeaMonkey 2.2) , Gecko didn't implement the click method on other elements that might be expected to respond to mouse???clicks such as links (A elements), nor will it necessarily fire the click event of other elements. However, now it is supported by all elements, as required by HTML5.
211 2011-09-16 15:49:48 <phantomcircuit> damn it ALL javascript sites
212 2011-09-16 15:49:56 <Dagger3> it can combine two+ outputs on one card into a single screen, but it can't combine outputs on multiple cards (one screen = one thing you can drag windows around on)
213 2011-09-16 15:50:23 <Dagger3> so, hence my choice. even though Windows can handle this!
214 2011-09-16 15:50:23 <phantomcircuit> so how does jquery simulate .click()!?
215 2011-09-16 15:50:27 <joepie91> eh
216 2011-09-16 15:50:29 <joepie91> it doesn't
217 2011-09-16 15:50:36 <joepie91> jquery.click is a way to assign an onClick event
218 2011-09-16 15:50:38 <joepie91> to an element
219 2011-09-16 15:50:43 <phantomcircuit> oh right
220 2011-09-16 15:50:50 <phantomcircuit> bah
221 2011-09-16 15:50:54 <phantomcircuit> regex timez
222 2011-09-16 15:50:57 <phantomcircuit> oh man
223 2011-09-16 15:51:02 <phantomcircuit> h4x
224 2011-09-16 15:51:04 <joepie91> what exactly... are you trying to do? :P
225 2011-09-16 15:51:10 <phantomcircuit> horrible
226 2011-09-16 15:51:13 <phantomcircuit> horrible h4x
227 2011-09-16 15:51:15 <luke-jr> Dagger3: maybe put them in a Windows VM, run an X server, and use Windows as a bloated X server? :P
228 2011-09-16 15:51:41 <imsaguy2> wow
229 2011-09-16 15:51:44 <imsaguy2> thats really stupid
230 2011-09-16 15:51:53 <luke-jr> :P
231 2011-09-16 15:52:33 <phantomcircuit> b[0].href.substr("javascript:".length)
232 2011-09-16 15:52:35 <phantomcircuit> :X
233 2011-09-16 15:52:47 <Dagger3> luke-jr: I think I'd lose hardware acceleration at some point in that, in which case I'd just use Xinerama :P
234 2011-09-16 15:53:32 <luke-jr> Dagger3: why? O.o
235 2011-09-16 15:53:43 <luke-jr> Windows still lacks a 3D-capable X server? XD
236 2011-09-16 15:54:33 <Dagger3> oh, the other big multi-monitor issue I had was that you can't put the mouse into the corners of your tallest monitor; it just skips down onto the adjacent one
237 2011-09-16 15:54:47 <luke-jr> lol
238 2011-09-16 15:54:57 <luke-jr> well, I decided multi-monitor was a waste years ago :P
239 2011-09-16 15:55:06 <Dagger3> which makes it really, really irritating to interact with anything in the corners, like the close button, or several of Firefox's toolbar buttons
240 2011-09-16 15:55:12 <gjs278> fluxbox handles multiple workspaces well enough that I use one
241 2011-09-16 15:55:12 <luke-jr> I only ever looked at/used the brightest of the pair
242 2011-09-16 15:56:13 <Dagger3> (if you use xrandr, that doesn't happen: instead the mouse just goes off into the hidden dead space. c'mon X, this is incredibly basic stuff that Windows has done right for over a decade)
243 2011-09-16 15:56:17 <joepie91> 1920x1080 + 1280x1024
244 2011-09-16 15:56:18 <joepie91> works beautifully
245 2011-09-16 15:56:27 <luke-jr> I could see mounting my N900 above my monitor as a "status" monitor :P
246 2011-09-16 15:57:01 <luke-jr> lol
247 2011-09-16 15:57:12 <joepie91> through workspaces*
248 2011-09-16 15:57:15 <luke-jr> I have too many desktops to scroll through
249 2011-09-16 15:57:18 <Dagger3> then I get stuff like this: http://oi56.tinypic.com/28l9urq.jpg (the top of the menu is aligned with the top of my smallest monitor. rather than the menu bar...)
250 2011-09-16 15:57:39 <luke-jr> Dagger3: well, don't use GNOME crap :P
251 2011-09-16 15:57:46 <joepie91> yes, that is an issue I *did* have
252 2011-09-16 15:57:52 <joepie91> the menu in the wrong place issue
253 2011-09-16 15:57:59 <joepie91> I have my monitors at very different heights so that may cause it
254 2011-09-16 15:58:21 <gjs278> I would try a different wm before I blame X
255 2011-09-16 15:58:43 <luke-jr> I never had that problem with KDE 3
256 2011-09-16 15:58:45 <joepie91> http://owely.com/3rVWzl
257 2011-09-16 15:58:50 <Dagger3> luke-jr: I don't think that's GNOME, actually... everything else GNOME works fine
258 2011-09-16 15:59:00 <luke-jr> Dagger3: GNOME never works fine
259 2011-09-16 15:59:06 <luke-jr> joepie91: XFCE is just a mini-GNOME
260 2011-09-16 15:59:10 <joepie91> lol
261 2011-09-16 15:59:11 <luke-jr> still uses GTK
262 2011-09-16 15:59:15 <joepie91> I like XFCE though
263 2011-09-16 15:59:15 <luke-jr> try KDE
264 2011-09-16 15:59:16 <joepie91> ew
265 2011-09-16 15:59:17 <joepie91> no
266 2011-09-16 15:59:23 <gjs278> try fluxbox
267 2011-09-16 15:59:28 <luke-jr> fluxbox is GTK too, isn't it?
268 2011-09-16 15:59:29 <joepie91> I tried it again recently, didn't have ANY applications running yet it was laggy as fuck
269 2011-09-16 15:59:31 <Dagger3> well, ok, it works GNOMEy. but at least the menus are in the right place
270 2011-09-16 15:59:36 <luke-jr> joepie91: fail
271 2011-09-16 15:59:40 <gjs278> fluxbox has no gtk I beleive
272 2011-09-16 15:59:43 <joepie91> KDE = bloaaaaaatg
273 2011-09-16 15:59:46 <joepie91> bloaaaat*
274 2011-09-16 15:59:52 <luke-jr> GNOME = more bloat
275 2011-09-16 15:59:54 <joepie91> lolno
276 2011-09-16 15:59:56 <luke-jr> yes
277 2011-09-16 15:59:59 <joepie91> at least GNOME ran rather smoothly
278 2011-09-16 16:00:02 <luke-jr> GNOME = more bloat, less options
279 2011-09-16 16:00:03 <joepie91> KDE absolutely didn't
280 2011-09-16 16:00:06 <joepie91> eh
281 2011-09-16 16:00:12 <luke-jr> joepie91: KDE doesn't support non-free drivers well
282 2011-09-16 16:00:14 <luke-jr> joepie91: turn off 3D stuff
283 2011-09-16 16:00:19 <joepie91> I have tried both free and nonfree drivers
284 2011-09-16 16:00:24 <joepie91> and GNOME at maximum compiz effects
285 2011-09-16 16:00:24 <luke-jr> minimum = off
286 2011-09-16 16:00:27 <joepie91> GNOME performed better.
287 2011-09-16 16:00:30 <luke-jr> nonsense
288 2011-09-16 16:00:31 <gjs278> fluxbox does not use gtk, it's not a dep
289 2011-09-16 16:00:37 <ThomasV> gnome is cute. kde is ugly. I am not a troll.
290 2011-09-16 16:00:39 <luke-jr> last time I tried GNOME, I couldn't even use it
291 2011-09-16 16:00:42 <joepie91> eh, I'm pretty damn sure that was the outcome of my tests lol
292 2011-09-16 16:00:44 <luke-jr> ThomasV: liar
293 2011-09-16 16:00:58 <joepie91> that you don't expect it doesn't make it 'nonsense'
294 2011-09-16 16:01:03 <luke-jr> ThomasV: KDE looks exactly like you tell it to
295 2011-09-16 16:01:06 <joepie91> I've had the same experiences on multiple machines
296 2011-09-16 16:01:12 <joepie91> KDE would often not even boot
297 2011-09-16 16:01:15 <joepie91> while GNOME ran just fine
298 2011-09-16 16:01:17 <k9quaint> joepie91: gnome2 or 3?
299 2011-09-16 16:01:18 <luke-jr> joepie91: KDE performs instantly on my Intel GPU
300 2011-09-16 16:01:19 <joepie91> 2.
301 2011-09-16 16:01:25 <joepie91> 3 is horrible
302 2011-09-16 16:01:31 <k9quaint> yeah, 3 wouldnt work at all for me
303 2011-09-16 16:01:37 <k9quaint> just checking :)
304 2011-09-16 16:01:37 <luke-jr> lol @ using obsolete versions
305 2011-09-16 16:01:39 <Dagger3> while I'm ranting, I'll also mention that I wasn't too impressed at having to futz with /etc/asound.conf to *allow multiple programs to output audio at the same time*... and then again to be able to change the output volume
306 2011-09-16 16:01:50 <joepie91> luke-jr, not everyone wants his desktop to be a giant tablet with a keyboard.
307 2011-09-16 16:01:53 <luke-jr> Dagger3: sounds like a distro issue
308 2011-09-16 16:02:03 <joepie91> just saying.
309 2011-09-16 16:02:04 <luke-jr> joepie91: that's why I use GNOME
310 2011-09-16 16:02:07 <luke-jr> err
311 2011-09-16 16:02:08 <Dagger3> (ALSA automatically sets up a mixer for you if you're using an analogue card. using a digital card? time to break out your text editor)
312 2011-09-16 16:02:09 <luke-jr> KDE
313 2011-09-16 16:02:12 <joepie91> ..
314 2011-09-16 16:02:18 <joepie91> luke-jr, you don't seem to have any clue what you're talking about
315 2011-09-16 16:02:22 <joepie91> re: GNOME
316 2011-09-16 16:02:22 <luke-jr> joepie91: no u
317 2011-09-16 16:02:25 <ThomasV> luke-jr: see? you use gnome
318 2011-09-16 16:02:28 <joepie91> that, or you're trolling
319 2011-09-16 16:02:28 <luke-jr> KDE is 100% configurable
320 2011-09-16 16:02:37 <luke-jr> except for menu tear-offs
321 2011-09-16 16:02:39 <luke-jr> they took that out :<
322 2011-09-16 16:02:49 <luke-jr> I think I heard it was being added back tho
323 2011-09-16 16:02:52 <luke-jr> oh, and Mac-style menus
324 2011-09-16 16:03:00 <ThomasV> nvidia is better than KDE
325 2011-09-16 16:03:04 <k9quaint> gnome 2 works fine for me, KDE is infinitely configurable and its what I actually run on my mining rig
326 2011-09-16 16:03:10 <luke-jr> &&
327 2011-09-16 16:03:18 <luke-jr> WHY THE HECK DO YOU RUN A WM ON A MINING RIG?
328 2011-09-16 16:03:18 <ThomasV> lovely spam!
329 2011-09-16 16:03:37 <k9quaint> luke-jr: because I am also developing on it
330 2011-09-16 16:03:39 <Dagger3> so. yeah. reasons to use Windows: this basic shit actually works
331 2011-09-16 16:04:06 <luke-jr> Dagger3: Windows doesn't support either of the features I mentioned missing in KDE 4
332 2011-09-16 16:04:26 <luke-jr> last I checked, anyhow
333 2011-09-16 16:04:32 <k9quaint> luke-jr: and I can have kde run in stripped down quiescent mode
334 2011-09-16 16:04:44 <joepie91> Dagger3: basic shit has always worked for me, unless I was fucking around with things myself and broke it myself.
335 2011-09-16 16:04:48 <luke-jr> k9quaint: tbh, I'd probably use twm if I wanted stripped-down
336 2011-09-16 16:04:57 <Dagger3> luke-jr: but even KDE4 won't give me hardware accel
337 2011-09-16 16:05:00 <joepie91> what distro are you using?
338 2011-09-16 16:05:07 <luke-jr> Dagger3: KDE4 isn't responsible for hw accel
339 2011-09-16 16:05:22 <k9quaint> luke-jr: yeah, I thought about TWM but KDE was easier for me
340 2011-09-16 16:05:44 <Dagger3> I'll admit I've been pretty happy other than the multiple monitor issues, but those are fatal to my ability to actually *use* my desktop
341 2011-09-16 16:05:57 <joepie91> Dagger3, what distro are you using?
342 2011-09-16 16:06:01 <Dagger3> joepie91: Debian. but the multi-monitor crap is X's responsibility
343 2011-09-16 16:06:05 <joepie91> mm..
344 2011-09-16 16:06:13 <joepie91> I think that might be your problem
345 2011-09-16 16:06:14 <joepie91> :P
346 2011-09-16 16:06:24 <luke-jr> joepie91: nah, Debian is a good choice usually
347 2011-09-16 16:06:26 <joepie91> if you want a distro that 'just works', Debian is probably not a good idea
348 2011-09-16 16:06:29 <luke-jr> &
349 2011-09-16 16:06:33 <luke-jr> yes it is :P
350 2011-09-16 16:06:40 <ThomasV> luke-jr: I said to RealSolid that he was a troll ; he banned me again
351 2011-09-16 16:06:46 <joepie91> luke-jr, dated hardware support, terminal and/or manual config editing required to get things really running
352 2011-09-16 16:06:47 <luke-jr> ThomasV: he never unbanned me :<
353 2011-09-16 16:06:53 <luke-jr> joepie91: nonsense
354 2011-09-16 16:06:55 <joepie91> often outdated software versions
355 2011-09-16 16:07:00 <Dagger3> I can reinstall with $preferred_distro if you want, but it won't make much of a difference
356 2011-09-16 16:07:01 <joepie91> why was Ubuntu made again?
357 2011-09-16 16:07:01 <luke-jr> joepie91: stable, not outdated
358 2011-09-16 16:07:09 <luke-jr> joepie91: Ubuntu was made to make money
359 2011-09-16 16:07:12 <joepie91> oh yeah, because debian was unsuitable for 'just works' users.
360 2011-09-16 16:07:13 <k9quaint> realsolid holds the record for most cryptocoins stolen in a scam
361 2011-09-16 16:07:20 <ThomasV> luke-jr: oh to get unbanned I had to suck his c*ck
362 2011-09-16 16:07:23 <luke-jr> joepie91: Ubuntu has worse hw support than Debian
363 2011-09-16 16:07:27 <k9quaint> he manage to fleece the community of 750,000 cryptocoins
364 2011-09-16 16:07:28 <Dagger3> unless X has magically got hardware accelerated Xinerama, or multi-GPU xrandr in the last couple of weeks
365 2011-09-16 16:07:28 <joepie91> Dagger3, there can be quite a difference between distros
366 2011-09-16 16:07:31 <joepie91> luke-jr, I disagree
367 2011-09-16 16:07:40 <luke-jr> joepie91: I've never had a PC that Ubuntu even booted on
368 2011-09-16 16:08:05 <joepie91> I have a pile of older computers here, some of them with more exotic hardware, Debian usually didn't even boot the installer properly
369 2011-09-16 16:08:10 <joepie91> ubuntu ran on most of them
370 2011-09-16 16:08:18 <joepie91> opensuse would run on all of them but 2
371 2011-09-16 16:08:30 <joepie91> and puppy linux ran on literally freaking everything.
372 2011-09-16 16:08:40 <k9quaint> the thing I like about Ubuntu is the installer can also run as a CD boot disk
373 2011-09-16 16:08:45 <joepie91> (that's leaving out the hardware requirements, some were laggy as fuck obv)
374 2011-09-16 16:08:53 <k9quaint> but I don't really use it except when I run into problems with Fedora
375 2011-09-16 16:08:56 <joepie91> k9quaint, nearly every distro has a live CD of some sort
376 2011-09-16 16:09:28 <k9quaint> yah, but Ubuntu is the best in that regard
377 2011-09-16 16:10:01 <joepie91> the king of live CDs is still puppy linux :P
378 2011-09-16 16:10:30 <joepie91> boots in seconds, runs from RAM, can write the session to wherever the fuck you want it to write, even to the very same CD that puppy itself is on (if session is not closed)
379 2011-09-16 16:10:47 <joepie91> can even encrypt your session/save file
380 2011-09-16 16:10:49 <k9quaint> good ole Yggdrasil LInux ;P
381 2011-09-16 16:11:10 <joepie91> you can literally have an entire OS plus all of your personal files on one encrypted CD/DVD
382 2011-09-16 16:11:22 <joepie91> and work with computers that don't even have a HDD
383 2011-09-16 16:16:10 <tcatm> are there any chrome/chromiun users in this channel?
384 2011-09-16 16:18:56 <luke-jr> tcatm: I have it, though I prefer not
385 2011-09-16 16:19:10 <tcatm> great
386 2011-09-16 16:19:29 <tcatm> I'm trying to fix the rendering bug on bitcoin.org and I'm looking for testers
387 2011-09-16 16:19:43 <luke-jr> what rendering bug?
388 2011-09-16 16:20:00 <tcatm> http://188.138.99.158/ links overlapping, buttons too small
389 2011-09-16 16:20:53 <luke-jr> looks fine both bitcoin.org and the direct-IP link, in both Chromium and Konqueror
390 2011-09-16 16:20:54 <ThomasV> indeed, it's ugly in chrome
391 2011-09-16 16:21:15 <gavinandresen> tcatm: looks ok to me, running chrome on my mac.
392 2011-09-16 16:21:17 <luke-jr> Chromium 13.0.782.107 and Konqueror 4.6.5
393 2011-09-16 16:22:00 <joepie91> tcatm, http://owely.com/17fKDE
394 2011-09-16 16:22:04 <gavinandresen> ... although if I click on the buttons in the menu bar there is weirdness
395 2011-09-16 16:22:14 <tcatm> http://i.imgur.com/7vqiY.png thi is what the bug looks like
396 2011-09-16 16:22:16 <joepie91> 14.0.835.159 beta
397 2011-09-16 16:22:23 <ThomasV> I have chrome 13.0.782.220
398 2011-09-16 16:22:34 <joepie91> huh, yes, most things disappear when clicking a button
399 2011-09-16 16:22:58 <tcatm> the black navigation bar? that's a known bug in chrome but I have a "fix" for that in a different branch
400 2011-09-16 16:23:04 <joepie91> after clicking a button: http://owely.com/1Hjq1i
401 2011-09-16 16:24:15 <luke-jr> only problem I see is that clicking "Home" scrolls the home part UNDER the menu
402 2011-09-16 16:24:29 <luke-jr> http://browsershots.org/http://bitcoin.org/
403 2011-09-16 16:25:02 <Dagger3> tcatm: not Chrome, but I note that the top bar highlights the tab two to the left when switching to Features or Contributors (and Home for the left-most three tabs)
404 2011-09-16 16:25:51 <Dagger3> (Firefox 5)
405 2011-09-16 16:25:58 <luke-jr> oh wow
406 2011-09-16 16:26:03 <luke-jr> Chromium gets the menu all wrong
407 2011-09-16 16:26:50 <luke-jr> http://browsershots.org/http://188.138.99.158/
408 2011-09-16 16:27:19 <luke-jr> the Contributors thing is all weird too
409 2011-09-16 16:27:27 <luke-jr> (besides the list omitting a lot)
410 2011-09-16 16:29:14 <tcatm> luke-jr: ?
411 2011-09-16 16:31:09 <luke-jr> tcatm:   http://browsershots.org/screenshots/76ea3b37ca4d7e2c3160c949d5cb740f
412 2011-09-16 16:31:19 <luke-jr> tcatm: it tries to be side-by-side with Features
413 2011-09-16 16:32:29 <tcatm> mhm
414 2011-09-16 16:33:36 <tcatm> oh. missing </div>
415 2011-09-16 16:33:42 <luke-jr> &
416 2011-09-16 16:33:46 <luke-jr> you don't syntax check?
417 2011-09-16 16:34:27 <luke-jr> Result: 18 Errors, 2 warning(s)
418 2011-09-16 16:34:29 <luke-jr> ew
419 2011-09-16 16:34:42 <luke-jr> Line 35, Column 70: An img element must have an alt attribute, except under certain conditions. For details, consult guidance on providing text alternatives for images.
420 2011-09-16 16:35:00 <luke-jr> Line 132, Column 87: & did not start a character reference. (& probably should have been escaped as &amp;.)
421 2011-09-16 16:35:13 <luke-jr> lots of both of those
422 2011-09-16 16:39:49 <gjs278> yeah & fest
423 2011-09-16 16:40:37 <tcatm> ThomasV: does http://188.138.99.158/ still have the rendering issues?
424 2011-09-16 16:41:08 <ThomasV> lit's fixed
425 2011-09-16 16:41:42 <dikidera> in rpc.cpp on line 1361 how does one know this "throw JSONRPCError(-7, "Out of memory"); " is really supposed to be an out of memory errors?
426 2011-09-16 16:45:42 <tcatm> does this still look okay http://188.138.99.158/# ? (some design changes)
427 2011-09-16 16:47:29 <dikidera> no
428 2011-09-16 16:47:33 <dikidera> its looks awful
429 2011-09-16 16:49:19 <tcatm> what's wrong with it?
430 2011-09-16 16:50:52 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I'm about to run out the door, but did I respond to switching DNS for bitcoin.org?  If not:  we had problems in the past with server overload, which is why we switch the home page to sourceforge (and now github).  So unless your VPS is ready for a slashdotting, switching is probably a bad idea.
431 2011-09-16 16:51:20 <gavinandresen> (talk to sirius for details of how much traffic you can expect... and now I'm out the door)
432 2011-09-16 16:53:02 <dikidera> gavin is the switch to qt already complete?
433 2011-09-16 16:53:07 <dikidera> i.e the gui is 100% qt?
434 2011-09-16 16:54:15 <gjs278> ah man contributors is gone
435 2011-09-16 16:54:24 <dikidera> gjs278:hmm?
436 2011-09-16 16:55:06 <gjs278> http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7889/screenshotbhx.png firefox 3.6
437 2011-09-16 16:55:28 <tcatm> gjs278: it's under "About" now
438 2011-09-16 16:55:32 <gjs278> oh ok
439 2011-09-16 16:55:51 <gjs278> for some reason it slightly horizontal scrolls me but it goes away when I browse down
440 2011-09-16 16:56:13 <gjs278> oh I got one
441 2011-09-16 16:56:22 <gjs278> when I scroll down the black bar follows me
442 2011-09-16 16:56:29 <gjs278> but when I scroll back up, this is as far as the bar goes
443 2011-09-16 16:56:41 <gjs278> http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5569/screenshotmql.png
444 2011-09-16 16:56:57 <tcatm> hmm, I'll disable the javascript
445 2011-09-16 16:57:17 <tcatm> do you still get horizontal scrolling?
446 2011-09-16 16:57:19 <gjs278> I guess the page is short enough now that is can probably be in a static location
447 2011-09-16 16:57:27 <gjs278> yes
448 2011-09-16 16:57:36 <gjs278> it is not moving but I still have the 5 or so pixel horizonal
449 2011-09-16 16:58:09 <gjs278> I'm looking through everything to try and find some margin or padding that is slightly going overboard
450 2011-09-16 16:58:46 <luke-jr> tcatm: eww, srsly the old design was much better
451 2011-09-16 16:59:09 <tcatm> luke-jr: = moving navigation back to the top?
452 2011-09-16 16:59:22 <gjs278> I think that nav at the top was better
453 2011-09-16 16:59:38 <gjs278> then the follow effect will most likely be fine
454 2011-09-16 17:08:08 <luke-jr> tcatm: yes
455 2011-09-16 17:17:32 <ymirhotfoot> Note I am just a beginner in Bitcoin, and have not yet mastered any part
456 2011-09-16 17:17:55 <ymirhotfoot> of the protocol, nor any part of the implementation.
457 2011-09-16 17:18:16 <ymirhotfoot> But I have likely nonsensical thought:
458 2011-09-16 17:18:41 <ymirhotfoot> In the proposals for hardening Bitcoin against certain, ah what is the name,
459 2011-09-16 17:18:57 <ymirhotfoot> time slew, time spoof attacks,
460 2011-09-16 17:19:49 <ymirhotfoot> there is the idea, I think, that the running of the central Satoshi blockchain protocol
461 2011-09-16 17:20:21 <ymirhotfoot> be made dependent upon a precise reliable universal time beacon,
462 2011-09-16 17:20:36 <ymirhotfoot> with ntp being perhaps an example.
463 2011-09-16 17:20:49 <phantomcircuit> that is an option but makes the protocol vulnerable to central failure
464 2011-09-16 17:20:54 <ymirhotfoot> My nonsensical thought:
465 2011-09-16 17:21:00 <phantomcircuit> which ntp in general actually is very vulnerable too
466 2011-09-16 17:21:18 <phantomcircuit> most of the public ntp servers derive their time from only about 5 real sources
467 2011-09-16 17:21:24 <ymirhotfoot> ah, phantomcircuit you got my thought out before I could type it in.
468 2011-09-16 17:21:41 <phantomcircuit> hehe
469 2011-09-16 17:21:46 <phantomcircuit> ZOMG MORE CAFFEINES
470 2011-09-16 17:21:48 <ymirhotfoot> I am glad this crude first idea has been noticed.
471 2011-09-16 17:21:52 <phantomcircuit> I CAN PREDICT THE FUTUREEEE
472 2011-09-16 17:21:58 <phantomcircuit> :P
473 2011-09-16 17:22:03 <ymirhotfoot> BY MAKING THE FUTURE
474 2011-09-16 17:22:08 <ymirhotfoot> old smalltalk slogan
475 2011-09-16 17:22:17 <phantomcircuit> lol
476 2011-09-16 17:22:18 <ymirhotfoot> Alan kay, I think.
477 2011-09-16 17:22:21 <tcatm> I think using ntp would still be more secure than what we have now.
478 2011-09-16 17:23:41 <ymirhotfoot> Possible Irony: in one of Satoshi's early posts about Bitcoin, he explains a bit of the Stoshi protocol by presenting the Byzantine wireless run through
479 2011-09-16 17:24:03 <ymirhotfoot> passwords/encypherings subject to a time constraint
480 2011-09-16 17:24:32 <ymirhotfoot> and so, I think, again, I AM NEWBIE, that perhaps we already have something close to
481 2011-09-16 17:25:09 <ymirhotfoot> a hardening in the basic Satoshi blockchain protocol.
482 2011-09-16 17:25:47 <ymirhotfoot> Obviously more than what is done now is required, according to what the devlopers say.
483 2011-09-16 17:26:32 <ymirhotfoot> Likely I will be away from this terminal in few minutes,
484 2011-09-16 17:26:36 <vegard> what is the problem, with more than 50% hashrate you can put your timestamps in the future to keep difficulty low?
485 2011-09-16 17:26:46 <ymirhotfoot> and i wanted to record my vagrant thought on this.
486 2011-09-16 17:27:20 <ymirhotfoot> ad ntp as she is implemented today: ntp might be used as an attack vector
487 2011-09-16 17:27:42 <ymirhotfoot> not only against Bitcoin, but in general.  I think it grew up in a time when
488 2011-09-16 17:27:46 <tcatm> vegard: the network calculates time from past blocks and has a kinda large window for timestamps thus someone can shift the clock on all bitcoin nodes
489 2011-09-16 17:28:17 <ymirhotfoot> there were fewer home machines running it, and perhaps it hsa not been checked, nor attacked much, so it might be vulnerable.
490 2011-09-16 17:29:05 <ymirhotfoot> bitcoiners: catch you later!
491 2011-09-16 17:33:42 <flying> guise...
492 2011-09-16 17:37:02 <vegard> shift the clocks without having 50%?
493 2011-09-16 17:37:09 <vegard> hashing power
494 2011-09-16 17:44:38 <tcatm> vegard: yes, that's possible (and it already happens)
495 2011-09-16 17:47:46 <vegard> it's an interesting problem
496 2011-09-16 17:48:24 <vegard> wouldn't it be possible to solve this by not trying to synchronise the time against peers at all?
497 2011-09-16 17:48:59 <vegard> we might see block chain forks for groups of clients which are out of sync, but the rest should be fine
498 2011-09-16 17:53:18 <Lolcust> A perhaps naive  inquiry - with no incomming connection, the number of outgoing connections defaults to 8. Is there a particular reason for this number, and if no, why can't one tweak the number of outgoing connections in the config a mite ?
499 2011-09-16 17:53:41 <Lolcust> I know of maxconnections ^__^ but it deals with both of them
500 2011-09-16 17:53:44 <JFK911> because is why
501 2011-09-16 17:53:58 <Lolcust> :(
502 2011-09-16 17:54:41 <JFK911> imagine if you can talk but not listen.  your communication won't work very well
503 2011-09-16 17:54:53 <JFK911> you must forward the port
504 2011-09-16 17:55:08 <tcatm> vegard: that should work. i.e. the client would just use the computers clock. It could output a warning when it notices that the clock might be wrong, though
505 2011-09-16 17:56:06 <JFK911> holy wtf i have two miners going and no cpu load
506 2011-09-16 17:56:19 <JFK911> i found the fix! but i dont know what it is and i cant replicate it
507 2011-09-16 18:03:48 <Lolcust> JFK911 I know that it is most advisable to open the port :)) I just want to grok just how badly one gets screwed when, say, mining behind TOR
508 2011-09-16 18:04:36 <lfm> Main reason is 8 connections each is lots really. Theoreticly you only need 2 or 3
509 2011-09-16 18:08:32 <luke-jr> main reason is NAT crap
510 2011-09-16 18:14:43 <Lolcust> luke-jr pardon my ignorance, but what would happen to NAT should the client launch and maintain, like, I dunno, 12 or 20 outgoing connections to different peers (theoretically) ?
511 2011-09-16 18:15:15 <luke-jr> Lolcust: NAT is the problem
512 2011-09-16 18:15:53 <gmaxwell> Lolcust: you're missing the point. The point he's making is that nat makes it so that inbound doesn't work on most hosts, so the graph can't really be randomly wired since lots of the hosts can't talk to each other.
513 2011-09-16 18:16:04 <tcatm> log0s: looks like the trade around 12 is real. at least has not been rolled back
514 2011-09-16 18:16:09 <gmaxwell> because it can't be randomly wired we need more connections.
515 2011-09-16 18:16:59 <Matth1a31> anyone know why my client is getting to 500 blocks and then it stops?
516 2011-09-16 18:17:51 <Lolcust> gmaxwell well, I do get that NAT makes inbound problematic. I am just wondering why not to try to poke some more outgoing connections to those hosts that accept (lost of?) inbounds, in cases where you have to operate in constrained environments
517 2011-09-16 18:19:00 <gmaxwell> Lolcust: because increasing the outbound connections further won't help anything and will just produce even more strain on the already full nodes which aren't behind nat.
518 2011-09-16 18:19:48 <Lolcust> Ah, now makes sense. Thanks
519 2011-09-16 18:26:28 <neofutur> tcatm: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API#Cancelled_Trades
520 2011-09-16 18:26:43 <neofutur> just in case you missed it, you could use it ;)
521 2011-09-16 18:27:11 <neofutur> ( experimental /1/ API )
522 2011-09-16 18:27:35 <tcatm> neofutur: that's where I checked if it was cancelled :)
523 2011-09-16 18:28:05 <neofutur> and you say the trades at 12 were not cancelled ?
524 2011-09-16 18:28:12 <tcatm> neofutur: is there any chance I could get an automated email each time a trade is cancelled (maybe with some delay to include multiple tids in one mail)?
525 2011-09-16 18:28:33 <neofutur> afaik they were, and the api/1/BTCUSD/public/cancelledtrades API was not yet up ?
526 2011-09-16 18:28:53 <tcatm> the 12.5... trade has tid 1315753408850547
527 2011-09-16 18:29:38 <neofutur> tcatm: i ll talk of this  to MT but i m sure you can have a script watch the api/1/BTCUSD/public/cancelledtrades and mailyou when its not empty . . .
528 2011-09-16 18:30:00 <neofutur> even I could do it :p shouldbe easy for you
529 2011-09-16 18:30:37 <tcatm> yep, except that I don't want to setup a script for each exchange because they would all have different APIs and other problems
530 2011-09-16 19:53:32 <Joric> damn bitcoinj is full of inaccesible vars ) http://gyazo.com/809c3801004e21191670d16900cfecd3
531 2011-09-16 20:00:44 <jjjrmy> Anyone interested in buying BitPizza.net?
532 2011-09-16 20:04:29 <tcatm> how much?
533 2011-09-16 20:07:49 <Disposition> ib4 10,000 btc
534 2011-09-16 20:10:05 <lfm> 10.000 btc more like
535 2011-09-16 20:15:32 <dikidera> just to i ask, when was the day gpu mining was introduced
536 2011-09-16 20:15:35 <dikidera> and by who
537 2011-09-16 20:15:48 <dikidera> s/just to i ask/just to ask
538 2011-09-16 20:15:56 <lfm> it was around sept or oct 2010
539 2011-09-16 20:16:14 <lfm> maybe aug
540 2011-09-16 20:16:34 <dikidera> do you remember what the diff was back then?
541 2011-09-16 20:17:28 <lfm> kinda depends what you mean by "introduced" too. I think Art Forz was doing it privately first for about a month before any free or open versions came out
542 2011-09-16 20:18:04 <lfm> You don't have to "remember" what it was, it is recorded in the block chain
543 2011-09-16 20:18:53 <lfm> Difficulty:1c00ba18 =  352.1612091,  2010-08-05 19:46:35, change:1.44202
544 2011-09-16 20:18:58 <lfm> Difficulty:1b153263 =   3091.73689,  2010-10-30 22:58:47, change:1.43867
545 2011-09-16 20:19:03 <tcatm> dikidera: it was pretty low. I was mining about 38 blocks/day with about 300 Mhash/s
546 2011-09-16 20:19:46 <dikidera> is there a post on the forums about this?
547 2011-09-16 20:20:00 <dikidera> i mean i wish to know how people reacted to this
548 2011-09-16 20:20:01 <tcatm> about what? start of GPU mining?
549 2011-09-16 20:20:11 <dikidera> that suddently instead of 1mh/s or so they were getting 300
550 2011-09-16 20:21:12 <lfm> of course the diff was frequently going up by 40-50% each change
551 2011-09-16 20:21:34 <BGL> new bot testing -> #bitcoin-cake
552 2011-09-16 20:22:25 <dikidera> yes but..i assume you guys were startled when all of a sudden blocks were appearing fast on your clients
553 2011-09-16 20:22:32 <dikidera> i mean, the block count was increasing
554 2011-09-16 20:22:35 <dikidera> no one found it suspicious?
555 2011-09-16 20:22:45 <lfm> dikidera: it wasnt that sudden
556 2011-09-16 20:23:49 <tcatm> GPU miners were using less optimized code and not everybody switched to GPUs at once.
557 2011-09-16 20:23:52 <Disposition> dikidera: people didn't believe the numbers.
558 2011-09-16 20:24:00 <Disposition> was the only reaction I suppose
559 2011-09-16 20:24:08 <Disposition> then mass adoption happened.
560 2011-09-16 20:24:38 <lfm> Disposition: no, I dont think anyone doubted the numbers. Mostly just a lot of people were eager to start using their own gpu for mining
561 2011-09-16 20:24:58 <Disposition> lfm: when artforez first started people didn't believe him
562 2011-09-16 20:25:17 <doublec> dikidera: there's a long thread about opensourcing one of the early gpu miners
563 2011-09-16 20:25:28 <lfm> well maybe ya, some people doubted you could program a gpu to do mining
564 2011-09-16 20:25:31 <doublec> dikidera: look for posts from user puddinpop
565 2011-09-16 20:25:40 <doublec> dikidera: in the end jgarzik paid him to open source the code iirc
566 2011-09-16 20:25:47 <tcatm> IIRC artforz early GPU miner was doing about 40..80 MHash/s. so only about 4..5x CPU speed
567 2011-09-16 20:25:51 <noagendamarket> One of the first gpu miners had a 10% tax involved
568 2011-09-16 20:26:00 <doublec> noagendamarket: that was puddinpop's
569 2011-09-16 20:26:03 <noagendamarket> lol
570 2011-09-16 20:27:09 <dikidera> i really hate myself tho
571 2011-09-16 20:27:18 <AnniAFK> <noagendamarket> One of the first gpu miners had a 10% tax involved
572 2011-09-16 20:27:22 <AnniAFK> how was that implemented ?
573 2011-09-16 20:27:23 <dikidera> In aug 2010 the only thing i remember was playing Singularity
574 2011-09-16 20:27:33 <dikidera> that was pretty much the last game i played
575 2011-09-16 20:27:39 <dikidera> card was idle ALL of the time
576 2011-09-16 20:27:46 <doublec> AnniAFK: puddinpop disstributed a binary miner only
577 2011-09-16 20:27:51 <lfm> AnniAFK: it was closed source, it send the "tax" directly to puddinpop
578 2011-09-16 20:27:54 <tcatm> AnniAFK: back then GPU miners included a complete bitcoinclient
579 2011-09-16 20:27:55 <doublec> AnniAFK: which tithed 5 coins to his address
580 2011-09-16 20:28:01 <AnniAFK> ahh ok
581 2011-09-16 20:28:07 <AnniAFK> interesting
582 2011-09-16 20:28:18 <tcatm> getwork was developed much later
583 2011-09-16 20:28:27 <AnniAFK> i see
584 2011-09-16 20:35:50 <noagendamarket> Its an evil idea ie dont think about it :)
585 2011-09-16 20:36:04 <noagendamarket> well not unless you are upfront about it
586 2011-09-16 20:36:14 <noagendamarket> the main problem was people discovered it
587 2011-09-16 20:36:23 <noagendamarket> rather than him disclosing
588 2011-09-16 20:36:32 <AnniAFK> yer kidding?
589 2011-09-16 20:36:38 <AnniAFK> he didnt tell them upfront?
590 2011-09-16 20:36:39 <noagendamarket> nope
591 2011-09-16 20:36:49 <AnniAFK> how does anyone still trust to use anything from him ever again ?
592 2011-09-16 20:36:55 <AnniAFK> pff
593 2011-09-16 20:37:10 <noagendamarket> well Ive never downloaded anythign from him lol
594 2011-09-16 20:37:16 <cjdelisle> is puddinpop a Bill Cosby saying or is that just jello pudding?
595 2011-09-16 20:37:26 <noagendamarket> yes its bill cosby
596 2011-09-16 20:37:35 <AnniAFK> hmmmm
597 2011-09-16 20:37:40 <doublec> noagendamarket: he disclosed
598 2011-09-16 20:37:47 <doublec> noagendamarket: it was in the readme
599 2011-09-16 20:37:56 <noagendamarket> LOL
600 2011-09-16 20:38:06 <cjdelisle> so we had a cosby fan around since long ago
601 2011-09-16 20:38:11 <noagendamarket> ;) who reads the fine print right
602 2011-09-16 21:24:59 <Joric> did anyone see as3 port of the bitcoin client? atleast it can communicate with peers, java applets require full permission for that
603 2011-09-16 21:28:30 <luke-jr> wtf is as3
604 2011-09-16 21:30:38 <dikidera> so i finally managed to run abe which is currently reading the chain and importing it into mysql
605 2011-09-16 21:30:52 <dikidera> but i checked all the tables and cannot see where the bitcoin addresses are stored
606 2011-09-16 21:31:26 <Joric> luke-jr, actionscript3, flash
607 2011-09-16 21:31:44 <dikidera> oh..is it possible to generate a bitcoin address from a pubkey?
608 2011-09-16 21:32:12 <Joric> dikidera, base58(ripemd160(sha256(pubkey)))
609 2011-09-16 21:33:49 <dikidera> there are two kinds of pubkeys do
610 2011-09-16 21:33:53 <dikidera> one is 40 bytes the other is 130
611 2011-09-16 21:34:00 <Joric> wha?
612 2011-09-16 21:34:05 <dikidera> pubkey and pubkey_hash
613 2011-09-16 21:34:44 <dikidera> a pubkey 04678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0<snip this last part>
614 2011-09-16 21:34:47 <Joric> pubkey is 65 bytes neither more nor less
615 2011-09-16 21:34:49 <dikidera> a pubkey hash 62e907b15cbf27d5425399ebf6f0fb50ebb88f18
616 2011-09-16 21:34:55 <Joric> 04 + x + y
617 2011-09-16 21:35:20 <lfm> ya a pubkey hash is not a pubkey really
618 2011-09-16 21:35:48 <dikidera> so basically the longer one
619 2011-09-16 21:36:05 <Joric> dikidera, https://bitcointools.appspot.com/
620 2011-09-16 21:36:47 <dikidera> why are you refering me to that site?
621 2011-09-16 21:36:57 <lfm> the short one is hash of the long one
622 2011-09-16 21:36:59 <dikidera> i just wished to know if it was possible, you said yes
623 2011-09-16 21:37:20 <dikidera> i am just waiting abe to dump the blocks to mysql
624 2011-09-16 21:37:22 <dikidera> and i begin
625 2011-09-16 21:37:26 <Joric> well, yes
626 2011-09-16 21:37:49 <lfm> the keys are part of the scripts
627 2011-09-16 21:38:15 <Joric> more specific, base58(addrtype + hash160 + hash160[-4])
628 2011-09-16 21:39:05 <lfm> ya the address is a form of the pubkey hash
629 2011-09-16 21:40:02 <Joric> sorry not exactly that, hard to write in a single line )
630 2011-09-16 21:40:31 <lfm> Joric: ya, its kinda ugly
631 2011-09-16 21:40:40 <luke-jr> dikidera: pubkey hash = ripemd160(sha256(pubkey))
632 2011-09-16 21:40:47 <luke-jr> address = base58(pubkey hash)
633 2011-09-16 21:43:24 <Joric> here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Addresses
634 2011-09-16 21:43:36 <Joric> very easy
635 2011-09-16 21:43:56 <lfm> very easy to say it is easy
636 2011-09-16 21:44:59 <ymirhotfoot> ;;ticker
637 2011-09-16 21:45:00 <gribble> Best bid: 4.802, Best ask: 4.82, Bid-ask spread: 0.018, Last trade: 4.82, 24 hour volume: 33997, 24 hour low: 4.61, 24 hour high: 4.99
638 2011-09-16 21:45:57 <`Jaka> anyone interested in buying 8btc for @ 4.50 ea?
639 2011-09-16 21:46:16 <Joric> lfm, yeah, plus it's padded base58 )
640 2011-09-16 21:46:21 <lfm> `Jaka: how you paying?
641 2011-09-16 21:46:41 <`Jaka> ? i'm not paying
642 2011-09-16 21:46:43 <`Jaka> i'm selling
643 2011-09-16 21:47:14 <lfm> `Jaka: how are you expecting to be paid then?
644 2011-09-16 21:47:18 <`Jaka> ppusd
645 2011-09-16 21:48:21 <dikidera> not a good idea
646 2011-09-16 21:48:30 <dikidera> i still remember the day i owed 465 usd to paypal
647 2011-09-16 21:48:38 <dikidera> which was 3+ months ago
648 2011-09-16 21:48:57 <`Jaka> what happened?
649 2011-09-16 21:49:01 <`Jaka> chargebacks?
650 2011-09-16 21:49:09 <dikidera> you could say that
651 2011-09-16 21:50:19 <JFK911> oops
652 2011-09-16 22:32:08 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 06367b62ed94 r74 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
653 2011-09-16 22:33:26 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * e71d7f274ef1 r75 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (WorkerProxy.java conf/Conf.java): it helps if you save before committing,
654 2011-09-16 22:43:36 <dikidera> 35k blocks left to be imported
655 2011-09-16 22:55:51 <thesheff17> conman, quick question....does the phoenix miner go back to the primary pool if it comes back up with the -b option?
656 2011-09-16 23:04:43 <flying> puscifer, vaginas, etc.
657 2011-09-16 23:54:57 <conman> thesheff17, no idea, I wrote cgminer whcih supports infinite pools and multiple failover mechanisms.
658 2011-09-16 23:55:25 <thesheff17> conman, sorry about that another guy told me you wrote phoenix
659 2011-09-16 23:55:26 <thesheff17> miner
660 2011-09-16 23:55:46 <conman> np
661 2011-09-16 23:56:20 <vsrinivas> for nodes already running ntp, would it make sense for GetAdjustedTime to return just the system time?
662 2011-09-16 23:57:40 <gmaxwell> vsrinivas: ntptime != network time, though it's close enough to work.
663 2011-09-16 23:57:44 <gmaxwell> I have some nodes running that way.
664 2011-09-16 23:58:45 <vsrinivas> gmaxwell: have any problems? also, they should be pretty close.
665 2011-09-16 23:59:13 <gmaxwell> When I last looked network time was off my local gpsdo by a few seconds. Sure, close enough.
666 2011-09-16 23:59:37 <gmaxwell> As far as doing that more widely, you'd want to query the local ntp to make sure that it at least thinks that its healthy...