1 2011-10-05 00:25:01 <gmaxwell> forrestv: diki was in here several months ago agressively not understanding nonces. Claiming that he was going to take over bitcoin by magically predicting correct ones and whatmore.  I recommend /ignore.
  2 2011-10-05 00:32:38 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: lol
  3 2011-10-05 00:33:16 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: you are stalking me!!!!!!!!111oneoneoneelevens
  4 2011-10-05 00:45:20 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
  5 2011-10-05 00:48:53 <EvanR> !1eleventyone
  6 2011-10-05 01:59:58 <log0s> tcatm: mtgox made some api changes that are affecting bitcoincharts (eur trades converted to usd prices and showing up on the mtgoxusd charts)
  7 2011-10-05 02:16:20 <neofutur> ( eur or other currencies )
  8 2011-10-05 02:36:15 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rac016af / (lib/blockchain.js lib/schema/block.js): Added verification of difficulty transitions. - http://git.io/g7ycXA
  9 2011-10-05 02:36:16 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * ra21a081 / lib/blockchain.js : Don't attach orphans. Fixes #36. - http://git.io/x-79eg
 10 2011-10-05 02:37:48 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r99fc93c / (lib/bitcoin.js package.json): Version bump to 0.1.1. - http://git.io/9WiELA
 11 2011-10-05 02:42:19 <cronopio> Great for the bitcoinjs team!!!!
 12 2011-10-05 03:03:13 <snimpy> ;;bc,index
 13 2011-10-05 03:03:14 <gribble> Error: "bc,index" is not a valid command.
 14 2011-10-05 03:03:32 <gribble> Error: "bc,ticker" is not a valid command.
 15 2011-10-05 03:03:32 <snimpy> ;;bc,ticker
 16 2011-10-05 03:03:59 <gribble> Error: "bc,ticker" is not a valid command.
 17 2011-10-05 03:03:59 <snimpy> ;;bc,ticker
 18 2011-10-05 05:38:03 <snimpy> ;;bc,blocks
 19 2011-10-05 05:38:04 <gribble> 148131
 20 2011-10-05 05:38:18 <gribble> 7406600.00000000
 21 2011-10-05 05:38:18 <snimpy> ;;bc,totalbc
 22 2011-10-05 05:39:03 <snimpy> ;;bc,bcm
 23 2011-10-05 05:39:04 <gribble> [{"pair": "BMBTC/BMUSD", "ask": "15.5", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/BMAUD", "ask": "0.0", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/BMGAU", "ask": "0.0", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/LRUSD", "ask": "0.0", "bid": "4.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/MBUSD", "ask": "14.95", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/MLUSD", (1 more message)
 24 2011-10-05 05:39:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.025,"low":4.88,"avg":4.957331679,"vwap":4.949377509,"vol":17919,"last_all":4.96,"last_local":4.96,"last":4.96,"buy":4.92,"sell":4.95798}}
 25 2011-10-05 05:39:14 <snimpy> ;;bc,mtgox
 26 2011-10-05 05:39:21 <snimpy> ;;bc,ticker
 27 2011-10-05 05:39:22 <gribble> Error: "bc,ticker" is not a valid command.
 28 2011-10-05 05:39:30 <snimpy> ;;bc,xau
 29 2011-10-05 05:39:31 <gribble> 1 XAU = 1625.150000000000 USD = 327.651209677 BTC
 30 2011-10-05 05:40:05 <snimpy> ;;bc,slushpool
 31 2011-10-05 05:40:06 <gribble> 1309725000
 32 2011-10-05 05:40:20 <snimpy> ;;bc,deepbit
 33 2011-10-05 05:40:21 <gribble> 4558995000
 34 2011-10-05 05:41:35 <snimpy> ;;bc,interval
 35 2011-10-05 05:41:36 <gribble> 665
 36 2011-10-05 05:41:51 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
 37 2011-10-05 05:41:51 <snimpy> ;;bc, estimate
 38 2011-10-05 05:41:57 <gribble> 1535013.48020388
 39 2011-10-05 05:41:57 <snimpy> ;;bc,estimate
 40 2011-10-05 06:43:45 <snimpy> ;;bc,avgprc
 41 2011-10-05 06:43:46 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "4.9206", "30d": "5.5783", "24h": "4.9162"}, "GBP": {"7d": "3.1898", "30d": "3.5758", "24h": "3.2510"}, "DKK": {"30d": "35.6897"}, "CAD": {"7d": "5.1615", "30d": "5.9307", "24h": "5.3005"}, "HUF": {"30d": "1105.3481"}, "UAH": {"30d": "43.5057"}, "SEK": {"7d": "33.4466", "30d": "35.1966"}, "SGD": {"7d": "6.5771", "30d": "6.8073"}, "HKD": {"7d": "39.9175", "30d": "43.2156"}, (2 more messages)
 42 2011-10-05 07:25:06 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
 43 2011-10-05 07:25:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 148139 | Current Difficulty: 1689334.4045971 | Next Difficulty At Block: 149183 | Next Difficulty In: 1044 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 23 hours, 58 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1532918.30331150 | Estimated Percent Change: -9.25903721965
 44 2011-10-05 07:25:16 <gjs278> lol difficulty
 45 2011-10-05 07:27:58 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 64459db8dba9 r159 /poolserverj-core/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/source/merged/ (ChainGroup.java MemberDaemon.java): add chaingroup for tracking blocknumbers
 46 2011-10-05 07:27:59 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 5f86288c7806 r160 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
 47 2011-10-05 07:39:36 <snimpy> ;;bc,avgprc
 48 2011-10-05 07:39:37 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "4.9225", "30d": "5.5778", "24h": "4.9142"}, "GBP": {"7d": "3.1904", "30d": "3.5686", "24h": "3.2493"}, "DKK": {"30d": "35.6897"}, "CAD": {"7d": "5.1615", "30d": "5.9299", "24h": "5.3000"}, "HUF": {"30d": "1105.3481"}, "UAH": {"30d": "43.5057"}, "SEK": {"7d": "33.4466", "30d": "35.1966"}, "SGD": {"7d": "6.5771", "30d": "6.8073"}, "HKD": {"7d": "39.9175", "30d": "43.2156"}, (2 more messages)
 49 2011-10-05 07:41:40 <snimpy> ;;bc,fc
 50 2011-10-05 07:41:41 <gribble> Error: "bc,fc" is not a valid command.
 51 2011-10-05 07:41:50 <snimpy> ;;bc,fx
 52 2011-10-05 07:41:53 <gribble> 1 XAU = 0.00 USD | 1 US dollar = 0.7520 euros | 1 US dollar = 1.0556 Canadian dollars | 1 US dollar = 0.6465 British pounds sterling | 1 US dollar = 1.0479 Australian dollars | 1 US dollar = 76.6700 Japanese yen | 1 US dollar = 7.7820 Hong Kong dollars | 1 BTC = 4.9395 USD
 53 2011-10-05 07:44:53 <UukGoblin> so, a new humble bundle came and it still doesn't accept bitcoins :-(
 54 2011-10-05 08:10:32 <snimpy> difficulty goes down, thats good
 55 2011-10-05 08:10:47 <sipa> is it?
 56 2011-10-05 08:11:13 <snimpy> the network is safe enought
 57 2011-10-05 08:11:27 <snimpy> less power consumption to keep it running
 58 2011-10-05 08:12:52 <sipa> agree
 59 2011-10-05 08:19:22 <snimpy> ;;bc,diffchange
 60 2011-10-05 08:19:24 <gribble> Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | -9.24575159205 % based on data since last change | -12.9154469105 % based on data for last three days
 61 2011-10-05 08:19:33 <TuxBlackEdo> does anyone here know about ssd recovery?
 62 2011-10-05 08:20:16 <snimpy> encrypted or unencrytpted
 63 2011-10-05 08:20:32 <TuxBlackEdo> unecrypted
 64 2011-10-05 08:20:56 <TuxBlackEdo> it shows up in bios
 65 2011-10-05 08:21:18 <snimpy> what was on it Linux or Win or both?
 66 2011-10-05 08:21:23 <TuxBlackEdo> and it will start up and freeze before it gets to the splash screen
 67 2011-10-05 08:21:25 <TuxBlackEdo> windows
 68 2011-10-05 08:21:46 <TuxBlackEdo> i havent tried an external sata adapter yet
 69 2011-10-05 08:21:53 <sipa> and the windows installation is on the SSD, or not?
 70 2011-10-05 08:21:58 <TuxBlackEdo> yes
 71 2011-10-05 08:22:07 <snimpy> drivers...
 72 2011-10-05 08:22:21 <sipa> then it is most likely the windows installation that broke, and not the ssd
 73 2011-10-05 08:22:28 <TuxBlackEdo> i tried turning on my computer with the windows 7 install cd inside, and tried to go to "reair my computer" but it cant find the ssd
 74 2011-10-05 08:22:45 <TuxBlackEdo> drivers shouldnt be a problem because it has worked until now
 75 2011-10-05 08:22:54 <snimpy> try too boot with f8
 76 2011-10-05 08:23:10 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i tried that
 77 2011-10-05 08:23:33 <snimpy> use scanregw.exe to restore an older system checkpoint
 78 2011-10-05 08:23:50 <TuxBlackEdo> it just blacks out, you know how after the bios, the little line blinks in the top corner of the screen, and disappears, then it goes to the slash screen, it doesnt get to the splash screen
 79 2011-10-05 08:24:14 <sipa> boot from a live cd
 80 2011-10-05 08:24:19 <TuxBlackEdo> I am booted off a secondary hard drive with the broken ssd also and its not showing up
 81 2011-10-05 08:24:28 <sipa> hmmm
 82 2011-10-05 08:24:33 <sipa> then it may be the ssd indeed
 83 2011-10-05 08:24:40 <TuxBlackEdo> it is :(
 84 2011-10-05 08:24:46 <TuxBlackEdo> i am thinking of doing the ssd recovery
 85 2011-10-05 08:24:53 <TuxBlackEdo> planning on spending $2000 probably
 86 2011-10-05 08:25:11 <TuxBlackEdo> so if anyone here can help me without doing that I will gladly send 150btc
 87 2011-10-05 08:25:13 <snimpy> make an image of the whole disk, clone it to a normlal hard drive
 88 2011-10-05 08:25:15 <snimpy> ide
 89 2011-10-05 08:25:21 <snimpy> sata
 90 2011-10-05 08:25:44 <snimpy> try too boot windows from this drive, ur data will be there
 91 2011-10-05 08:26:01 <snimpy> dont try too much recovery b4 u habe a clone or backup of the hdd
 92 2011-10-05 08:26:16 <TuxBlackEdo> i dont care about the ssd i just want the data
 93 2011-10-05 08:26:56 <TuxBlackEdo> its not showing up in windows, shows up in the bios though
 94 2011-10-05 08:27:01 <sipa> boot using a linux live cd, and try to create an image
 95 2011-10-05 08:27:10 <sipa> if that succeeds, your data is most likely safe
 96 2011-10-05 08:27:14 <snimpy> use pmagic-6.6
 97 2011-10-05 08:27:26 <TuxBlackEdo> how do I use a live cd, once i boot up what commands do i do?
 98 2011-10-05 08:27:46 <snimpy> it usable by intuition
 99 2011-10-05 08:27:47 <TuxBlackEdo> parted magic
100 2011-10-05 08:27:48 <sipa> there's probably tools that are more user friendly that do the same
101 2011-10-05 08:27:57 <JFK911> dd if=/de/vrandom of=/dev/dsa
102 2011-10-05 08:28:07 <snimpy> use parted magic: pmagic-6.6.iso
103 2011-10-05 08:28:30 <JFK911> fdisk --wipeall
104 2011-10-05 08:28:35 <snimpy> clone the drive to an sata or ide drive
105 2011-10-05 08:28:58 <JFK911> theres also a nice tool called "recovery master" it's shortened to rm
106 2011-10-05 08:29:02 <snimpy> tehn boot from the sata or ide drive
107 2011-10-05 08:29:02 <TuxBlackEdo> i am going to try pmagic
108 2011-10-05 08:29:16 <sipa> TuxBlackEdo: whatever you do, don't do what JFK911 says :p
109 2011-10-05 08:29:23 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i know
110 2011-10-05 08:29:43 <snimpy> omg
111 2011-10-05 08:30:01 <snimpy> rm is bullshit lol
112 2011-10-05 08:30:10 <JFK911> you must not be using it with the right options
113 2011-10-05 08:30:13 <JFK911> -r for recover and -f for fast
114 2011-10-05 08:30:35 <TuxBlackEdo> i was seriously just sitting there and turning the computer on and off for like 30 mins straight trying to get it to work
115 2011-10-05 08:30:53 <TuxBlackEdo> i was also thinking of putting the drive in the freezer but i heard that only works on mechanical drives
116 2011-10-05 08:31:28 <sipa> indeed
117 2011-10-05 08:31:29 <JFK911> seriously now: the freezer isnt a good idea.
118 2011-10-05 08:31:51 <JFK911> that idea should get the same reaction as the last bunch of lines i wrote here.
119 2011-10-05 08:31:58 <manveru> :)
120 2011-10-05 08:32:13 <TuxBlackEdo> i just need it to work just one more time
121 2011-10-05 08:32:28 <manveru> TuxBlackEdo: you can boot from usb?
122 2011-10-05 08:32:32 <JFK911> you had an ssd fail or go corrupt?
123 2011-10-05 08:32:32 <TuxBlackEdo> yes
124 2011-10-05 08:32:45 <TuxBlackEdo> ssd controller probably :(
125 2011-10-05 08:32:50 <JFK911> does it detect?
126 2011-10-05 08:32:57 <TuxBlackEdo> bios does, windows doesn't
127 2011-10-05 08:33:06 <manveru> oh, windows
128 2011-10-05 08:33:06 <sipa> filesystem broken maybe
129 2011-10-05 08:33:16 <JFK911> yea, see if you can see a partition label
130 2011-10-05 08:33:37 <TuxBlackEdo> device manager (where drives without a filesystem show up) doesnt show my drive
131 2011-10-05 08:33:40 <manveru> well, i guess recommending grml isn't gonna be much help then :)
132 2011-10-05 08:33:41 <gribble> Best bid: 4.9, Best ask: 4.915, Bid-ask spread: 0.015, Last trade: 4.9, 24 hour volume: 18611, 24 hour low: 4.88, 24 hour high: 5.025
133 2011-10-05 08:33:41 <mizerydearia> See #bitcoin-tickers (or #bitcoin-tickers-???, replace ??? with one of aud,bgn,brl,cad,chf,eur,gbp,hkd,inr,jpy,nzd,pln,rub,sek,sgd,sll,thb,usd,zar)
134 2011-10-05 08:33:41 <snimpy> ;;ticker
135 2011-10-05 08:33:53 <JFK911> device manager is confusing.  sometimes it shows volumes, not disks.
136 2011-10-05 08:33:57 <JFK911> depending on where you look.
137 2011-10-05 08:34:03 <JFK911> the best way to find it is sort by conection
138 2011-10-05 08:34:09 <JFK911> then go computer -> pci bus -> ...
139 2011-10-05 08:34:37 <JFK911> diskmgmt.msc ought to show the disk?
140 2011-10-05 08:35:06 <TuxBlackEdo> it doesnt
141 2011-10-05 08:35:51 <JFK911> creepy
142 2011-10-05 08:35:58 <TuxBlackEdo> ok brb
143 2011-10-05 08:36:03 <TuxBlackEdo> booting into pmagic
144 2011-10-05 08:36:17 <JFK911> you dont have any raid controller funk?
145 2011-10-05 08:36:20 <snimpy> take care with it
146 2011-10-05 08:36:43 <JFK911> did that thing eat his wallet?
147 2011-10-05 08:37:10 <snimpy> i suggest to make an image b4 trying any repairs
148 2011-10-05 08:37:39 <snimpy> year, did it kill ur wallet?
149 2011-10-05 08:49:56 <coodod> ok
150 2011-10-05 08:50:00 <coodod> so i am here
151 2011-10-05 08:50:08 <coodod> hard drive showed up in pmagic
152 2011-10-05 08:50:17 <coodod> and also smart test passed
153 2011-10-05 08:50:21 <sipa> good
154 2011-10-05 08:50:25 <coodod> oh wow i think i owe someone some btc
155 2011-10-05 08:50:28 <coodod> hehe
156 2011-10-05 08:50:37 <gjs278> mount the partition
157 2011-10-05 08:50:38 <coodod> how do i back up this drive now?
158 2011-10-05 08:50:53 <coodod> yeah it is /dev/sda
159 2011-10-05 08:50:55 <gjs278> well
160 2011-10-05 08:51:01 <gjs278> how many partitions on /dev/sda are there
161 2011-10-05 08:51:05 <gjs278> is it the only one
162 2011-10-05 08:51:05 <snimpy> u need a second hdd
163 2011-10-05 08:51:12 <coodod> 1 i think
164 2011-10-05 08:51:15 <gjs278> ok
165 2011-10-05 08:51:16 <coodod> i do have a second hdd
166 2011-10-05 08:51:18 <gjs278> ok
167 2011-10-05 08:51:23 <coodod> can i burn cds or dvds
168 2011-10-05 08:51:25 <gjs278> is it /dev/sdb
169 2011-10-05 08:51:26 <gjs278> no
170 2011-10-05 08:51:27 <coodod> or even just pick files
171 2011-10-05 08:51:28 <gjs278> don't do that
172 2011-10-05 08:51:30 <gjs278> yes
173 2011-10-05 08:51:32 <gjs278> you can pick files
174 2011-10-05 08:51:39 <coodod> i can scp them?
175 2011-10-05 08:51:50 <gjs278> not from a livecd, you probably don't have inet
176 2011-10-05 08:52:00 <coodod> yes this is how i am here
177 2011-10-05 08:52:06 <coodod> it recognized my wireless card lol
178 2011-10-05 08:52:09 <gjs278> oh ok
179 2011-10-05 08:52:30 <gjs278> in a terminal, do
180 2011-10-05 08:52:31 <coodod> this os is nice
181 2011-10-05 08:52:32 <gjs278> sudo su
182 2011-10-05 08:52:37 <gjs278> then
183 2011-10-05 08:52:41 <coodod> already root
184 2011-10-05 08:52:43 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/ssd
185 2011-10-05 08:52:49 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/backup
186 2011-10-05 08:52:57 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/ssd
187 2011-10-05 08:53:05 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdb1 /mnt/backup
188 2011-10-05 08:53:13 <coodod> wait
189 2011-10-05 08:53:26 <coodod> it just spit out the help info when i did the first mount command
190 2011-10-05 08:53:40 <coodod> oh forgot a space my bad
191 2011-10-05 08:53:44 <gjs278> oh ok
192 2011-10-05 08:53:54 <coodod> The disk contains an unclean file system (0, 0).
193 2011-10-05 08:53:55 <coodod> The file system wasn't safely closed on Windows. Fixing.
194 2011-10-05 08:53:57 <coodod> interesting
195 2011-10-05 08:54:15 <gjs278> yeah that's fine
196 2011-10-05 08:54:25 <coodod> now its hanging on that command, i wait?
197 2011-10-05 08:54:30 <gjs278> which command
198 2011-10-05 08:54:32 <gjs278> the first mount
199 2011-10-05 08:54:34 <gjs278> or second
200 2011-10-05 08:54:35 <coodod> first mount command
201 2011-10-05 08:54:53 <gjs278> just wait
202 2011-10-05 08:54:59 <coodod> normal?
203 2011-10-05 08:55:13 <gjs278> I've had it wait like a minute before
204 2011-10-05 08:55:21 <coodod> hey
205 2011-10-05 08:55:22 <coodod> it finished
206 2011-10-05 08:55:25 <gjs278> ok
207 2011-10-05 08:55:28 <coodod> let me do the second command
208 2011-10-05 08:55:31 <coodod> but wait
209 2011-10-05 08:55:36 <coodod> i need a second hd in here first
210 2011-10-05 08:55:40 <gjs278> ok
211 2011-10-05 08:55:41 <gjs278> well
212 2011-10-05 08:55:43 <coodod> right?
213 2011-10-05 08:55:43 <gjs278> ls /mnt/ssd
214 2011-10-05 08:55:45 <gjs278> see if your files are there
215 2011-10-05 08:55:54 <coodod> empty :(
216 2011-10-05 08:56:13 <gjs278> I would think the mount didn't work more than it is empty
217 2011-10-05 08:56:22 <coodod> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/ssd
218 2011-10-05 08:56:25 <coodod> is what i am using
219 2011-10-05 08:56:30 <coodod> shouldnt i use sda0?
220 2011-10-05 08:56:39 <gjs278> nah, partitions start on 1
221 2011-10-05 08:56:50 <gjs278> it's the only partition on the drive right
222 2011-10-05 08:56:56 <coodod> yes
223 2011-10-05 08:57:02 <gjs278> yeah it would definitely be 1
224 2011-10-05 08:57:20 <gjs278> df -h
225 2011-10-05 08:57:24 <gjs278> what does it report the disk usage as
226 2011-10-05 08:57:34 <coodod> ilesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
227 2011-10-05 08:57:55 <coodod> http://pastebin.com/7ipjThGz
228 2011-10-05 08:57:56 <gjs278> dude
229 2011-10-05 08:57:58 <coodod> this is smart output
230 2011-10-05 08:58:02 <gjs278> that's your windows 7 boot partition
231 2011-10-05 08:58:05 <gjs278> the mini one
232 2011-10-05 08:58:07 <coodod> oh
233 2011-10-05 08:58:09 <coodod> my bad
234 2011-10-05 08:58:13 <gjs278> there's no way your main windows partition was 100m lol
235 2011-10-05 08:58:14 <gjs278> ok
236 2011-10-05 08:58:16 <gjs278> umount /mnt/ssd
237 2011-10-05 08:58:17 <coodod> hehe i guess i do have 2 partitions
238 2011-10-05 08:58:23 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda2 /mnt/ssd
239 2011-10-05 08:58:38 <coodod> Failed to mount '/dev/sda2': Input/output error
240 2011-10-05 08:58:38 <coodod> NTFS is either inconsistent, or there is a hardware fault, or it's a
241 2011-10-05 08:58:40 <coodod> /dev/mapper/nvidia_eahaabcc1). Please see the 'dmraid' documentation
242 2011-10-05 08:58:42 <coodod> for more details.
243 2011-10-05 08:58:53 <gjs278> were you by chance using a software raid on it
244 2011-10-05 08:59:02 <coodod> no..
245 2011-10-05 08:59:05 <gjs278> alright
246 2011-10-05 08:59:50 <gjs278> well, I would get the second drive in there first
247 2011-10-05 08:59:58 <gjs278> you don't want to mess with sda2 when it's spouting that back at you
248 2011-10-05 09:00:06 <coodod> can i do it without restarting?
249 2011-10-05 09:00:17 <gjs278> you can
250 2011-10-05 09:01:27 <coodod> yep
251 2011-10-05 09:01:31 <coodod> it loaded both drives
252 2011-10-05 09:01:37 <coodod> according to gsmartcontrol
253 2011-10-05 09:02:30 <coodod> but now the first dive smart went off saying this: http://pastebin.com/KFK96a0s
254 2011-10-05 09:03:02 <gjs278> is there only one partition on disk 2
255 2011-10-05 09:03:15 <coodod> 2 just like the other
256 2011-10-05 09:03:20 <gjs278> ok
257 2011-10-05 09:03:26 <gjs278> I'm guessing it is /dev/sdb2 then
258 2011-10-05 09:03:32 <coodod> yes
259 2011-10-05 09:03:35 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdb2 /mnt/backup
260 2011-10-05 09:04:18 <coodod> that worked
261 2011-10-05 09:04:20 <coodod> and showed files
262 2011-10-05 09:04:25 <gjs278> ok
263 2011-10-05 09:04:29 <gjs278> you want to do
264 2011-10-05 09:04:36 <coodod> also it did the "unclean file system" error again
265 2011-10-05 09:04:49 <gjs278> dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
266 2011-10-05 09:04:59 <gjs278> that will clone your ssd partition to an image file on the second disk
267 2011-10-05 09:05:21 <coodod> root@PartedMagic:~# dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
268 2011-10-05 09:05:30 <gjs278> ow
269 2011-10-05 09:06:01 <gjs278> dd if=/dev/sda of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
270 2011-10-05 09:06:03 <gjs278> try that
271 2011-10-05 09:06:17 <coodod> same error
272 2011-10-05 09:06:17 <gjs278> I don't think it will have that much more luck though
273 2011-10-05 09:06:37 <gjs278> well
274 2011-10-05 09:07:05 <gjs278> you can try disconnecting/reconnecting the ssd and then doing that again
275 2011-10-05 09:07:11 <coodod> ok
276 2011-10-05 09:07:14 <gjs278> but for right now it can't read anything off of the disk
277 2011-10-05 09:08:59 <coodod> a restart maybe
278 2011-10-05 09:09:12 <coodod> because I can't even get /dev/sda1 to mount
279 2011-10-05 09:09:15 <coodod> brb
280 2011-10-05 09:16:56 <nfnrrhr> hey
281 2011-10-05 09:17:00 <nfnrrhr> what was that command again?
282 2011-10-05 09:17:24 <nfnrrhr> it's really weird but when i boot up it says "basic health check: passed"
283 2011-10-05 09:17:29 <gjs278> lol
284 2011-10-05 09:17:31 <gjs278> ok
285 2011-10-05 09:17:34 <nfnrrhr> and it tells me the name of my hd
286 2011-10-05 09:17:39 <nfnrrhr> and everything
287 2011-10-05 09:17:43 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/backup
288 2011-10-05 09:18:05 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdb2 /mnt/backup
289 2011-10-05 09:18:19 <gjs278> ls that and make sure it has files in it so it's definitely drive #2
290 2011-10-05 09:18:34 <nfnrrhr> yep
291 2011-10-05 09:18:49 <gjs278> ok
292 2011-10-05 09:19:02 <gjs278> dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
293 2011-10-05 09:20:31 <nfnrrhr> input output error
294 2011-10-05 09:20:44 <gjs278> 0 bytes?
295 2011-10-05 09:20:48 <nfnrrhr> yep
296 2011-10-05 09:20:59 <gjs278> yeah you're not going to have much luck with dd on that thing
297 2011-10-05 09:21:16 <sipa> mounting doesn't work?
298 2011-10-05 09:21:34 <gjs278> [05:58] <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda2 /mnt/ssd
299 2011-10-05 09:21:36 <gjs278> [05:58] <coodod> Failed to mount '/dev/sda2': Input/output error
300 2011-10-05 09:21:48 <sipa> dd has the conv=noerror option
301 2011-10-05 09:21:52 <sipa> to skip errors
302 2011-10-05 09:24:08 <nfnrrhr> whoa
303 2011-10-05 09:24:12 <nfnrrhr> i just dd the noerror
304 2011-10-05 09:24:28 <gjs278> yeah it probably gave you over 9000 messages
305 2011-10-05 09:24:30 <nfnrrhr> and it just is stuck in a loop of "input/output error"s
306 2011-10-05 09:25:05 <nfnrrhr> brb
307 2011-10-05 09:31:31 <fdassad> hmm
308 2011-10-05 09:31:35 <fdassad> i think its copying
309 2011-10-05 09:31:46 <fdassad> is the dd command not supposed to have any output?
310 2011-10-05 09:32:05 <gjs278> it has no output until it is done
311 2011-10-05 09:32:16 <fdassad> i think you saved my ass
312 2011-10-05 09:32:28 <fdassad> i will live up to my promise
313 2011-10-05 09:32:37 <fdassad> my usual nick is TuxBlackEdo
314 2011-10-05 09:32:47 <fdassad> i aint even kidding
315 2011-10-05 09:32:58 <fdassad> i think its working
316 2011-10-05 09:33:03 <sipa> you can go to another terminal
317 2011-10-05 09:33:06 <sipa> and type
318 2011-10-05 09:33:12 <gjs278> yeah the sigkill thing
319 2011-10-05 09:33:12 <sipa> killall -USR1 dd
320 2011-10-05 09:33:28 <sipa> that'll make it report its status
321 2011-10-05 09:33:47 <fdassad> i just did a ls -lh and saw the file is growing
322 2011-10-05 09:33:52 <fdassad> thats all the confirmation i need
323 2011-10-05 09:34:12 <fdassad> or should i do the killall command?
324 2011-10-05 09:34:16 <gjs278> nah
325 2011-10-05 09:34:16 <sipa> you may
326 2011-10-05 09:34:28 <fdassad> thanks guys
327 2011-10-05 09:34:29 <gjs278> you can already see the rate, you know it's 80gb
328 2011-10-05 09:34:34 <fdassad> yep
329 2011-10-05 09:35:01 <fdassad> as soon as this is done
330 2011-10-05 09:35:07 <fdassad> i am going to take the hard drive
331 2011-10-05 09:35:12 <fdassad> and run it over with my car hehe
332 2011-10-05 09:35:18 <diki> so
333 2011-10-05 09:35:20 <gjs278> dude
334 2011-10-05 09:35:22 <diki> i tried making a php script
335 2011-10-05 09:35:23 <fdassad> ssd sucks so much
336 2011-10-05 09:35:27 <gjs278> those intels that 3 year warranties
337 2011-10-05 09:35:31 <gjs278> have
338 2011-10-05 09:35:35 <fdassad> yeah x-25m ssd
339 2011-10-05 09:36:49 <snimpy> the question is: will it blend? a car will not do it
340 2011-10-05 09:39:21 <fdassad> i cannot express the gratitude i have right now
341 2011-10-05 09:40:42 <fdassad> i have production source code files here that arent backed up anywhere else 5 years of work
342 2011-10-05 09:41:03 <gjs278> lol
343 2011-10-05 09:41:17 <sipa> you may want to consider backups
344 2011-10-05 09:42:07 <fdassad> ssd-image is 2.1gb.. 77.9 left
345 2011-10-05 09:42:24 <snimpy> backups? hasn't apple the patent od backups?
346 2011-10-05 09:42:29 <snimpy> or was it samsung?
347 2011-10-05 09:42:30 <snimpy> lol
348 2011-10-05 09:44:29 <snimpy> i once thought ssd were much more reliable than normal hdd, because of no moving parts.
349 2011-10-05 09:44:48 <fdassad> that's what i thought
350 2011-10-05 09:44:53 <gjs278> the controllers fail
351 2011-10-05 09:45:10 <fdassad> i hope i am not just backing up a bunch of 0s
352 2011-10-05 09:45:23 <fdassad> can I tail the .img file somehow?
353 2011-10-05 09:45:25 <snimpy> well, they have no moving parts. too...
354 2011-10-05 09:45:47 <gjs278> it's creating an image file, when it's done you can mount that file. for now though, there's no good way of seeing what is inside of it
355 2011-10-05 09:46:06 <fdassad> ah ok looks like ill be waiting
356 2011-10-05 09:46:14 <gjs278> are you doing conv=noerror right now
357 2011-10-05 09:46:32 <gjs278> oh nvm you said there was no output
358 2011-10-05 09:46:33 <gjs278> so you're good then
359 2011-10-05 09:46:40 <gjs278> if there was output you'd be seeing it nonstop
360 2011-10-05 09:47:38 <fdassad> yeah i am just doing the command regular without the noerror argument
361 2011-10-05 09:47:56 <gjs278> are you backing up to like a usb drive or something
362 2011-10-05 09:47:59 <gjs278> the rate seems pretty slow
363 2011-10-05 09:49:13 <fdassad> to another ssd :-/
364 2011-10-05 09:49:18 <gjs278> lol
365 2011-10-05 09:49:24 <fdassad> lol
366 2011-10-05 09:49:28 <gjs278> how big is the second one
367 2011-10-05 09:49:32 <fdassad> 110gb
368 2011-10-05 09:49:34 <gjs278> ok
369 2011-10-05 09:49:40 <gjs278> you do have 80gb free though right
370 2011-10-05 09:49:49 <fdassad> not sure
371 2011-10-05 09:49:54 <gjs278> df -h
372 2011-10-05 09:49:56 <gjs278> and make sure
373 2011-10-05 09:50:02 <gjs278> otherwise the dd will run out of room eventually
374 2011-10-05 09:50:06 <fdassad> /dev/sdb2             120G   45G   75G  38% /mnt/backup
375 2011-10-05 09:50:20 <gjs278> well
376 2011-10-05 09:50:23 <gjs278> how big is the image now
377 2011-10-05 09:50:26 <gjs278> you may just cut it
378 2011-10-05 09:50:29 <fdassad> can i delete pagefile.sys?
379 2011-10-05 09:50:42 <fdassad> 4gb of extra space
380 2011-10-05 09:50:44 <gjs278> windows will recreate it
381 2011-10-05 09:50:46 <gjs278> so yeah
382 2011-10-05 09:52:37 <fdassad> rm -rf prog files/steam gave me some space
383 2011-10-05 09:52:48 <fdassad> 84gb now according to df -h
384 2011-10-05 09:52:52 <fdassad> should be good now
385 2011-10-05 09:53:30 <fdassad> thats with the 4.3gb file with it
386 2011-10-05 09:53:32 <gjs278> yeah you're okay then
387 2011-10-05 09:53:41 <fdassad> yep :)
388 2011-10-05 09:54:22 <fdassad> i like this is, what is it ubuntu or debian?
389 2011-10-05 09:55:02 <gjs278> not sure
390 2011-10-05 09:55:55 <gjs278> that is hilariously slow for an ssd
391 2011-10-05 09:56:05 <gjs278> is the backup drive an intel
392 2011-10-05 09:56:21 <gjs278> I swear that thing has to be indilinux to be writing 4.7gb in this time
393 2011-10-05 09:56:33 <fdassad> the broken drive is the intel x-25m
394 2011-10-05 09:56:37 <gjs278> yeah what's the backup drive
395 2011-10-05 09:56:39 <fdassad> the backup drive is an ocz drive
396 2011-10-05 09:56:42 <gjs278> ok
397 2011-10-05 09:56:47 <gjs278> is it like first generation ocz
398 2011-10-05 09:57:02 <fdassad> ocz ability or something like that
399 2011-10-05 09:57:07 <gjs278> lol agility
400 2011-10-05 09:57:14 <fdassad> hehe
401 2011-10-05 09:58:40 <gjs278> yeah I can definitely tell why it's taking that long, it's an indilinux controller
402 2011-10-05 09:59:10 <fdassad> hey it works, hdd light blinking and all
403 2011-10-05 09:59:23 <fdassad> so i am not complaining
404 2011-10-05 10:02:32 <fdassad> 6.1gb
405 2011-10-05 10:05:48 <fdassad> wow southparkstudios.com works on this os
406 2011-10-05 10:45:14 <snimpy> ;;bc,diff
407 2011-10-05 10:45:15 <gribble> 1689334.4045971
408 2011-10-05 10:45:47 <snimpy> ;;bc,nethash
409 2011-10-05 10:45:48 <gribble> 10502.143616547646
410 2011-10-05 10:46:45 <snimpy> ;;bc,convert eur
411 2011-10-05 10:46:46 <gribble> 1 BTC = 4.925 US dollars = 3.7019 euros
412 2011-10-05 10:48:05 <fdassad> ;;bc,diffchange
413 2011-10-05 10:48:06 <gribble> Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | -9.37754979854 % based on data since last change | -13.1545460284 % based on data for last three days
414 2011-10-05 10:48:58 <fdassad> gjs278, you there?
415 2011-10-05 10:49:03 <gjs278> yeah
416 2011-10-05 10:49:31 <fdassad> root@PartedMagic:~# dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
417 2011-10-05 10:49:32 <fdassad> 31831408+0 records out
418 2011-10-05 10:49:37 <fdassad> only 16gb copied
419 2011-10-05 10:49:44 <gjs278> ugh
420 2011-10-05 10:50:03 <fdassad> it might have been because i moved it
421 2011-10-05 10:50:10 <gjs278> what'd you move exactly
422 2011-10-05 10:50:17 <fdassad> the laptop
423 2011-10-05 10:50:21 <gjs278> eh
424 2011-10-05 10:50:23 <gjs278> probably not
425 2011-10-05 10:50:26 <fdassad> the hdds arent secured either
426 2011-10-05 10:50:50 <fdassad> can i look at ssd-image.img?
427 2011-10-05 10:50:54 <fdassad> even if it only got 16gb
428 2011-10-05 10:50:58 <gjs278> you can try and mount it
429 2011-10-05 10:51:02 <gjs278> you need to do
430 2011-10-05 10:51:10 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/mount
431 2011-10-05 10:51:27 <gjs278> mount -o loop -t ntfs /mnt/backup/ssd-image.img /mnt/mount
432 2011-10-05 10:51:39 <gjs278> I don't have high hopes for that working though
433 2011-10-05 10:51:39 <Lykkepillen> I'm having problems running "bitcoind" x64 on my Debian 5 server - Tells me : ./bitcoind: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.11' not found (required by ./bitcoind), but libstdc++.so.6 is installed
434 2011-10-05 10:53:36 <fdassad> gjs278, http://pastebin.com/tyKnMrME
435 2011-10-05 10:53:46 <fdassad> "Failed to read last sector (156092415): Invalid argument"
436 2011-10-05 10:53:54 <gjs278> yeah
437 2011-10-05 10:54:07 <fdassad> should i try it again and see if it goes past that part?
438 2011-10-05 10:54:10 <fdassad> or actually
439 2011-10-05 10:54:15 <fdassad> the noerror thing should work?
440 2011-10-05 10:54:24 <gjs278> you can try but it's going to pickup at the very start
441 2011-10-05 10:55:49 <gjs278> you can also try and do
442 2011-10-05 10:55:55 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs /dev/sda2 /mnt/ssd
443 2011-10-05 10:56:00 <gjs278> and see if there are any files listed in it
444 2011-10-05 10:56:09 <gjs278> just ntfs, not 3g
445 2011-10-05 10:56:17 <gjs278> and just try copying out what you need
446 2011-10-05 10:56:27 <gjs278> that's assuming it mounts at all
447 2011-10-05 10:56:29 <fdassad> ntfs-3g-mount: failed to access mountpoint /mnt/ssd: No such file or directory
448 2011-10-05 10:56:36 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/ssd
449 2011-10-05 10:56:38 <gjs278> then do that
450 2011-10-05 10:58:05 <fdassad> input output error
451 2011-10-05 10:58:38 <fdassad> wow now the dd command doesnt work either
452 2011-10-05 10:58:41 <gjs278> yeah
453 2011-10-05 10:58:45 <gjs278> the drive probably dropped
454 2011-10-05 10:58:52 <gjs278> did dd just randomly work
455 2011-10-05 10:58:55 <gjs278> after a reboot or something?
456 2011-10-05 10:59:26 <fdassad> yes
457 2011-10-05 10:59:33 <gjs278> well
458 2011-10-05 10:59:39 <fdassad> brb :)
459 2011-10-05 10:59:41 <gjs278> you can try that and just do a straight mount instead of dd
460 2011-10-05 10:59:47 <gjs278> maybe get a bunch of files at a time
461 2011-10-05 11:20:41 <gjs278> sync will fill the gaps
462 2011-10-05 11:20:49 <snimpy> ;;bc,slushpool
463 2011-10-05 11:20:50 <gribble> 1327102000
464 2011-10-05 11:20:53 <gjs278> if the drive drops though, they'll both be unhelpful
465 2011-10-05 11:21:07 <snimpy> ;;bc,btcguild
466 2011-10-05 11:21:09 <gjs278> you can try your luck with dd though
467 2011-10-05 11:21:09 <gribble> 1776795000
468 2011-10-05 11:21:23 <snimpy> ;;bc,deepbit
469 2011-10-05 11:21:24 <gribble> 4306771000
470 2011-10-05 11:21:26 <gjs278> and hope for an 80gb stretch of the drive staying online
471 2011-10-05 11:21:29 <lxdsfs> should i do "conv=noerror,sync" or without sync?
472 2011-10-05 11:21:40 <Graet> ;;bc,ozcoin
473 2011-10-05 11:21:43 <gribble> 72019000
474 2011-10-05 11:21:52 <lxdsfs> i decided to secure the drive now
475 2011-10-05 11:21:57 <snimpy> ;;bc,avgprc
476 2011-10-05 11:21:58 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "4.9269", "30d": "5.5750", "24h": "4.9083"}, "GBP": {"7d": "3.1974", "30d": "3.5464", "24h": "3.2465"}, "DKK": {"30d": "35.6897"}, "CAD": {"7d": "5.1615", "30d": "5.9293", "24h": "5.3168"}, "HUF": {"30d": "1105.3481"}, "UAH": {"30d": "43.5057"}, "SEK": {"7d": "33.4466", "30d": "35.1966"}, "SGD": {"7d": "6.5771", "30d": "6.8073"}, "HKD": {"7d": "39.9175", "30d": "43.2156"}, (2 more messages)
477 2011-10-05 11:33:00 <slowbackup> ok it's started again hopefully this time ill get all of it
478 2011-10-05 11:42:01 <Lykkepillen> Anyone having luck with mining bitcoins on Debian 5 x64?
479 2011-10-05 12:15:24 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr master * r3552497 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp : Send "Connection: close" HTTP header with JSON-RPC requests (client) - http://git.io/f73j-A
480 2011-10-05 12:23:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r9ec4fa7 / src/net.cpp :
481 2011-10-05 12:23:06 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #561 from luke-jr/optimize_conn_adjtime
482 2011-10-05 12:27:59 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r8bc52d0 / src/net.cpp :
483 2011-10-05 12:40:41 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rb898c8f / (28 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'no-cryptopp' of https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin - http://git.io/0C37sg
484 2011-10-05 12:41:10 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rff3b235 / src/db.cpp :
485 2011-10-05 12:56:20 <michaelmclees> Hi guys, I just wanted to float an idea out there.
486 2011-10-05 12:56:36 <michaelmclees> All I want to know is if off the cuff, a few people here think it is possible.
487 2011-10-05 12:57:00 <michaelmclees> I am not a coder, programmer, etc.. so I don't know how these things work.
488 2011-10-05 12:57:23 <UukGoblin> "if off the cuff"?
489 2011-10-05 12:57:43 <michaelmclees> If you think it is possible without giving it lots of thought.
490 2011-10-05 12:58:02 <UukGoblin> what's "if off the cuff"?
491 2011-10-05 12:59:20 <michaelmclees> First, if I understand BTC correctly, the general parameters for payout, coin generation, etc... happens the way it does because a majority of the users agree to the rules.
492 2011-10-05 13:00:09 <iz> because all the users agree to the rules
493 2011-10-05 13:00:09 <michaelmclees> And if someone modified the code in a way that a majority of users found to be acceptable, from that point on, those parameters would hold.
494 2011-10-05 13:00:18 <iz> not the majority
495 2011-10-05 13:00:18 <UukGoblin> yeah, because Satoshi implemented it this way, because it makes some sense, and because everyone accepted it
496 2011-10-05 13:00:34 <iz> if you don't obey the rules, you aren't part of that blockchain anymore
497 2011-10-05 13:01:11 <michaelmclees> So you fork the chain and everyone else keeps working on the original, correct?
498 2011-10-05 13:01:17 <iz> but yeah.. anyone can modify the code and try to make their own bitcoin
499 2011-10-05 13:01:32 <iz> yeah, your stuff will get rejected
500 2011-10-05 13:02:13 <michaelmclees> So any fundamental changes are best left for new chains?
501 2011-10-05 13:02:17 <UukGoblin> (and there are different levels of rules)
502 2011-10-05 13:02:56 <iz> yeah.. there are different rules.. but the stuff having to do w/ payment or coin generation would certainly be some things that would be in that category
503 2011-10-05 13:02:58 <UukGoblin> (some stuff like transaction fees aren't part of these rules)
504 2011-10-05 13:03:17 <iz> fundamental changes can be made way in advance, if everyone agrees on the changes
505 2011-10-05 13:03:49 <iz> like.. make the change in the client code, which will take effect at block #X, which is several months in the future
506 2011-10-05 13:03:53 <michaelmclees> OK, well suppose one writes in some code so that after block X, users are able to have a kind of savings account.
507 2011-10-05 13:04:27 <iz> you mean like bitcoin accounts?
508 2011-10-05 13:04:33 <michaelmclees> Which generates BTC apart from the normal generation.
509 2011-10-05 13:04:40 <iz> oh
510 2011-10-05 13:04:46 <nathan7> that makes no sense
511 2011-10-05 13:04:50 <iz> well, that has nothing to do w/ the bitcoin client
512 2011-10-05 13:05:00 <iz> there could be a bitcoin bank, that is totally seperate
513 2011-10-05 13:05:11 <nathan7> michaelmclees: You know how interest works?
514 2011-10-05 13:05:21 <iz> which loans bitcoins to ppl and pays intreset to ppl who give them bitcoins
515 2011-10-05 13:05:25 <nathan7> The bank uses your cash to invest in things.
516 2011-10-05 13:05:32 <michaelmclees> yes, I know how interest works.
517 2011-10-05 13:05:32 <nathan7> Such as loans and stock.
518 2011-10-05 13:05:52 <nathan7> So where is the interest supposed to come from in your thing?
519 2011-10-05 13:06:04 <UukGoblin> extra generations, I suppose
520 2011-10-05 13:06:09 <michaelmclees> Here's the thing, for the average consumer in a bank, they don't feel the investment part.
521 2011-10-05 13:06:18 <nathan7> Yes..
522 2011-10-05 13:06:31 <iz> yeah, well.. also those accounts are FDIC insured by the federal govt
523 2011-10-05 13:06:31 <michaelmclees> So the perception is that leaving money alone increases it.
524 2011-10-05 13:06:52 <iz> if they weren't ppl would be way more attentive to them
525 2011-10-05 13:06:52 <nathan7> The dumb masses, eh?
526 2011-10-05 13:06:53 <michaelmclees> This is merely making that common perception, the actual system.
527 2011-10-05 13:06:57 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, yes, let's suppose someone made such a change. What's the question?
528 2011-10-05 13:07:15 <michaelmclees> The question is, is such a thing possible?
529 2011-10-05 13:07:26 <nathan7> If you'd do that, everyone would do it
530 2011-10-05 13:07:26 <UukGoblin> yes
531 2011-10-05 13:07:38 <iz> is what possible?  making money from nothing with 0 risk?
532 2011-10-05 13:07:45 <UukGoblin> it's possible but it's unlikely people would just follow your chain (accept the change)
533 2011-10-05 13:08:02 <nathan7> and bitcoins would lose value proportional to the interest.
534 2011-10-05 13:08:05 <michaelmclees> the rules could be such that you're required to take money out of the market for X # of blocks.
535 2011-10-05 13:08:07 <UukGoblin> although alternate chains don't stop to amaze me with popularity
536 2011-10-05 13:08:34 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, imho, it's possible, but pointless
537 2011-10-05 13:08:39 <michaelmclees> as long as the interest rate were low enough, such a scheme could still be deflationary.
538 2011-10-05 13:08:50 <iz> lol, no that's wrong
539 2011-10-05 13:08:56 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, if bitcoin works how it's supposed to, just leaving your bitcoins in your regular account should increase their value
540 2011-10-05 13:09:21 <michaelmclees> This is meant as a hedge.
541 2011-10-05 13:09:45 <michaelmclees> So far, if you think the exchange rate is going down, you exchange for cash and buy back later.
542 2011-10-05 13:09:58 <michaelmclees> This allows you to get more later, without having to deal with an exchange.
543 2011-10-05 13:10:24 <iz> but for that to work.. SOMEONE has to deal w/ that exchange
544 2011-10-05 13:10:37 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * re9e7bb9 / (doc/build-osx.txt src/makefile.osx): Update mac Makefile and build instructions to use MacPorts - http://git.io/v9GI1g
545 2011-10-05 13:10:40 <michaelmclees> If you think the value is going to go up and you want access to your coins, better not put them in the savings part of the wallet.
546 2011-10-05 13:10:41 <iz> someone has to take the risk of losing money
547 2011-10-05 13:11:40 <iz> so for that to work.. the "savings" part of the wallet would have to be money that special bitcoin investors have access too
548 2011-10-05 13:11:43 <iz> to
549 2011-10-05 13:11:54 <iz> and if they lose your money.. sorry.. too bad
550 2011-10-05 13:11:54 <michaelmclees> no
551 2011-10-05 13:12:19 <michaelmclees> you keep the money, but you've no access until the block you entered is reached
552 2011-10-05 13:12:26 <iz> i don't understand how you think you can just award % interest to bitcoins that aren't being used
553 2011-10-05 13:12:43 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, sure you could do it
554 2011-10-05 13:13:00 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, but think about it, is it really needed? is it worth forking the chain just for that change?
555 2011-10-05 13:13:08 <UukGoblin> nope.
556 2011-10-05 13:13:41 <UukGoblin> your proposed change would also imply that the total amount of bitcoins in circulation would become unknown
557 2011-10-05 13:13:42 <michaelmclees> well, let's see
558 2011-10-05 13:13:44 <iz> also, it allows bitcoin to self destruct
559 2011-10-05 13:13:44 <nathan7> michaelmclees: if you can gain coins without any work being done, they lose value proportionally to the coins gained
560 2011-10-05 13:14:06 <michaelmclees> it allows a kind of investment without involving anyone else
561 2011-10-05 13:14:09 <iz> and it takes bitcoins out of circulation
562 2011-10-05 13:14:17 <michaelmclees> the value you're adding is taking them out of circulation
563 2011-10-05 13:14:20 <iz> and then arbitrarily increases their value for no reason
564 2011-10-05 13:14:34 <michaelmclees> increases their quantity
565 2011-10-05 13:14:42 <iz> let's say 90% of the bitcoins go into "savings"
566 2011-10-05 13:14:51 <michaelmclees> for the reason that you volunteered to take x amount out of hte market
567 2011-10-05 13:14:56 <iz> because ppl want to save their bitcoin earnings and make some interest
568 2011-10-05 13:15:04 <michaelmclees> ok
569 2011-10-05 13:15:12 <iz> what happens next in this thought experiment?
570 2011-10-05 13:15:28 <UukGoblin> a value of a bitcoin goes x10
571 2011-10-05 13:15:30 <iz> when 90% of the bitcoins are locked up for the next 500 blocks?
572 2011-10-05 13:15:31 <UukGoblin> then after a year
573 2011-10-05 13:15:35 <UukGoblin> it goes /11
574 2011-10-05 13:15:57 <michaelmclees> Might create a bubble, sure.
575 2011-10-05 13:16:04 <UukGoblin> (10 plus the devaluation made by creating new coins)
576 2011-10-05 13:17:07 <iz> i don't think you can just arbitrarily print money like that w/out destabilizing the currency terribly
577 2011-10-05 13:17:33 <UukGoblin> such imaginary currency would be unstable enough to start with
578 2011-10-05 13:17:37 <nathan7> UukGoblin: at some point we hit peak coin though
579 2011-10-05 13:18:13 <iz> maybe
580 2011-10-05 13:18:34 <iz> if everyone keep mining that long
581 2011-10-05 13:21:00 <michaelmclees> I guess that's the answer then I was looking for.
582 2011-10-05 13:21:09 <michaelmclees> Possible.  Probably pointless.
583 2011-10-05 13:21:34 <michaelmclees> Certainly comes with consequences that can't be predicted.
584 2011-10-05 13:22:04 <iz> yeah, i'd agree w/ that
585 2011-10-05 13:23:55 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46919.0
586 2011-10-05 13:25:53 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: so...whats left for 0.5?
587 2011-10-05 13:26:40 <gavinandresen> good question; nothing major, I think
588 2011-10-05 13:27:27 <gavinandresen> sipa's import/export keys patch isn't in, but I haven't heard that it is 100% ready
589 2011-10-05 13:27:59 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's 100% ready for clueful users
590 2011-10-05 13:28:11 <luke-jr> clueless users can still shoot themselves in the foot
591 2011-10-05 13:28:16 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r4ffbdcc / src/makefile.unix : Auto-build dependencies - http://git.io/5Rma0Q
592 2011-10-05 13:28:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: BlueMatt: wanna give me a day to get some consensus on these obvious things gavinandresen wanted consensus for?
593 2011-10-05 13:29:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Ive gotta figure out qt xcompile first so I think you are safe
594 2011-10-05 13:30:23 <gavinandresen> consensus won't be built in a day
595 2011-10-05 13:30:44 <gavinandresen> ... and there will be other releases....
596 2011-10-05 13:32:14 <BlueMatt> qt and bitcoin-qt xcompile wont be built in a day at the rate Ive got time to fiddle with obscure gcc bugs...
597 2011-10-05 13:33:07 <gavinandresen> I can fire up my EC2 Windows instance to do a non-cross-compiled windows build if necessary
598 2011-10-05 13:33:31 <gavinandresen> ... or maybe we can recruit somebody trustworthy to build release candidates on windows
599 2011-10-05 13:34:07 <BlueMatt> ie you
600 2011-10-05 13:38:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'll try to make the changes i planned on doing soon
601 2011-10-05 13:38:44 <BlueMatt> wait, sipa in #bitcoin-dev, its a miracle (now what was it that I needed to ask you...)
602 2011-10-05 13:38:54 <BlueMatt> arg
603 2011-10-05 13:39:10 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r3a6e468 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp : Merge branch 'listsinceblock' of https://github.com/cdhowie/bitcoin - http://git.io/NmeStg
604 2011-10-05 13:53:15 <gavinandresen> tcatm : ping
605 2011-10-05 13:53:23 <tcatm> gavinandresen: pong
606 2011-10-05 13:53:40 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I'm getting a unit test error: test/miner_tests.cpp:32: error in "sha256transform_equality": check hash == hash_reference failed
607 2011-10-05 13:54:08 <tcatm> gavinandresen: osx?
608 2011-10-05 13:54:12 <gavinandresen> yes
609 2011-10-05 13:55:30 <tcatm> can you run test_bitcoin with --log_level=message ? it should output the calculated hash
610 2011-10-05 13:56:27 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ac4a3dbd5869797c29d66aec8c4348f77b5ae25a222d46b3842014b514025b75
611 2011-10-05 13:58:33 <tcatm> endian mismatch :/
612 2011-10-05 13:58:52 <tcatm> is it an x86 mac?
613 2011-10-05 13:59:19 <gavinandresen> tcatm: yes
614 2011-10-05 14:01:13 <tcatm> can you undo the merge for now? This could be tricky to sort out. I'll try to get access to a mac (and a windows computer) to figure out what's wrong.
615 2011-10-05 14:02:50 <gavinandresen> This is part of the remove-cryptopp-dependency merge?
616 2011-10-05 14:03:09 <gavinandresen> ... and if I don't remove it... what, getwork is likely broken?
617 2011-10-05 14:03:34 <tcatm> midstate will be broken but miners that do not use it should work fine
618 2011-10-05 14:04:25 <tcatm> yes, it's the wrapper around openssl that makes it behave like cryptopp (i.e. gives access to midstate)
619 2011-10-05 14:04:27 <gavinandresen> Could be the unit test is broken, I get the same error on my linux box
620 2011-10-05 14:04:44 <luke-jr> :o
621 2011-10-05 14:04:55 <luke-jr> can you run the unit test against 0.4.0?
622 2011-10-05 14:05:04 <gavinandresen> tcatm: different hash with --log_level, though:  fc58a395f876eeef05bbdae82e1884912f5988b8cb95ffbd95f7a7a9a826c0da
623 2011-10-05 14:05:17 <luke-jr> x.x
624 2011-10-05 14:07:42 <gavinandresen> tcatm: undoing the remove-cryptopp-pull will be somewhat painful, because I just committed changes to a couple of the makefiles that depend on it (auto-build dependencies, instaed of *.cpp depending on *.h)
625 2011-10-05 14:09:11 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46924.0
626 2011-10-05 14:09:31 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: first see if the test works w/ 0.4.0 IMO
627 2011-10-05 14:11:41 <tcatm> gavinandresen: strange. the unittest from master also fails on my computer. my remove-cryptopp branch works fine
628 2011-10-05 14:12:38 <gavinandresen> tcatm: did you make clean?  dependencies for test_bitcoin were screwed up before...
629 2011-10-05 14:14:58 <tcatm> yes
630 2011-10-05 14:15:10 <tcatm> looks like it calculates a different hash every time
631 2011-10-05 14:15:14 <BlueMatt> on another note, I fucked up jenkins (hence why it didnt catch this in a second)...
632 2011-10-05 14:15:29 <BlueMatt> (fixed now)
633 2011-10-05 14:15:42 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #46: ABORTED in 5 min 55 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/46/
634 2011-10-05 14:15:50 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #49: FAILURE in 7.5 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/49/
635 2011-10-05 14:15:59 <BlueMatt> there we go
636 2011-10-05 14:18:39 <BlueMatt> ...or not...Ill fix it when I get back to the dorm
637 2011-10-05 14:21:02 <tcatm> gavinandresen: can you try the no-cryptopp branch?
638 2011-10-05 14:21:34 <gavinandresen> tcatm :  one sec
639 2011-10-05 14:23:51 <gavinandresen> tcatm: that branch is just fine.  Merge error maybe?
640 2011-10-05 14:25:20 <tcatm> likely
641 2011-10-05 14:25:36 <tcatm> let's try out git bisect :)
642 2011-10-05 14:26:04 <luke-jr> e git bisect
643 2011-10-05 14:26:16 <gavinandresen> afk for a while, lunch
644 2011-10-05 14:26:39 <luke-jr> especially love how you can write a script to test it and just let it run :D
645 2011-10-05 14:26:59 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46927.0
646 2011-10-05 14:34:41 <hadi> hi
647 2011-10-05 14:55:30 <tcatm> gavinandresen: merging listsinceblock broke it
648 2011-10-05 14:56:29 <luke-jr> O.o wtf
649 2011-10-05 14:56:34 <gavinandresen> you sure? I just did a git checkout 3a6e468   .... (the listsinceblock merge) and unit tests were OK
650 2011-10-05 14:57:37 <tcatm> at least that's what git bisect told me
651 2011-10-05 14:58:06 <luke-jr> tcatm: the slightest human error really affects bisect results fwiw
652 2011-10-05 14:58:12 <tcatm> 3a6e468 is okay because it does not have the unittest for SHA256Transform
653 2011-10-05 14:58:16 <luke-jr> be sure you flag "can't test" as "can't test"
654 2011-10-05 14:58:22 <luke-jr> lol
655 2011-10-05 14:59:39 <gavinandresen> ok, now I'm very confused....
656 2011-10-05 14:59:39 <tcatm> wait, now I'm a little confused
657 2011-10-05 15:00:02 <gavinandresen> checked out master branch and no complaints ???
658 2011-10-05 15:00:55 <tcatm> with make clean?
659 2011-10-05 15:01:14 <tcatm> and maybe even git reset --hard before make clean?
660 2011-10-05 15:01:16 <gavinandresen> I'm double-checking to make sure I'm starting clean right now
661 2011-10-05 15:07:05 <luke-jr> diablo-d3: reports of unknown-works from current DMwtf n00b voted no on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46927 ? -.-
662 2011-10-05 15:07:10 <luke-jr> yay for combined messages x.x
663 2011-10-05 15:07:43 <gavinandresen> tcatm: Ok, I figure out the source of my confusion.  Unit test on my mac works if I compile -g, does NOT if I compile -g -O3
664 2011-10-05 15:07:58 <gavinandresen> (does not work on my linux box compiled -O3)
665 2011-10-05 15:08:03 <gavinandresen> Uninitialized variable maybe?
666 2011-10-05 15:08:06 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: -O3 is generally known to break things&
667 2011-10-05 15:08:18 <luke-jr> -O2 is the highest safe optimization for x86
668 2011-10-05 15:08:40 <gmaxwell> Don't FUD.
669 2011-10-05 15:09:01 <gmaxwell> If you have bugs please report them, the gcc developers are very responsive. If you need help filing them I'll help you out.
670 2011-10-05 15:09:24 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: what FUD?
671 2011-10-05 15:09:36 <lfm> luke-jr blaming bugs on gcc
672 2011-10-05 15:09:50 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr did you just start a poo
673 2011-10-05 15:09:50 <luke-jr> lfm: it's not exactly news
674 2011-10-05 15:09:53 <asherkin> everyone knows -O3 breaks things
675 2011-10-05 15:10:00 <gmaxwell> In current GCC O3 is reliable now, it will tend to expose bugs in your own code more often.
676 2011-10-05 15:10:04 <lfm> luke-jr ya its a common fud
677 2011-10-05 15:10:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: what "current" GCC?
678 2011-10-05 15:10:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: most people don't use bleeding edge
679 2011-10-05 15:10:20 <lfm> 4+
680 2011-10-05 15:10:46 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr did you just start a poll on the forum for something dev related???
681 2011-10-05 15:10:48 <gmaxwell> 4.5.1 for example.
682 2011-10-05 15:10:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: lots of them, why?
683 2011-10-05 15:11:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: gavin says consensus needed to add backward-compatible JSON-RPC methods, so&
684 2011-10-05 15:11:15 <da2ce7> lol
685 2011-10-05 15:11:20 <BlueMatt-mobile> Number of developer reading forum : 1
686 2011-10-05 15:11:27 <gmaxwell> The testing that goes into modern gcc is pretty impressive.
687 2011-10-05 15:11:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: that's why i posted the links here
688 2011-10-05 15:12:05 <gmaxwell> (Not that there aren't bugs I mean, I make a point of testing on bleeding edge so I can report bugs in GCC, but the released stuff is pretty good)
689 2011-10-05 15:12:13 <tcatm> gavinandresen: also happens with -O2 here
690 2011-10-05 15:12:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so you're saying I can build 100% of my system with -O3 and it will work?
691 2011-10-05 15:12:33 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr we do have a mailing list...
692 2011-10-05 15:12:35 <lfm> luke-jr if your code is bug free ya, id say so
693 2011-10-05 15:12:40 <gmaxwell> No because your system is full of broken software, but thats not GCC's fault.
694 2011-10-05 15:12:48 <lfm> thats what I said
695 2011-10-05 15:12:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: I sent them there first. nobody replied.
696 2011-10-05 15:13:18 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr then why do you expect a reply on the forums?
697 2011-10-05 15:13:24 <gmaxwell> For example a ton of open source software violates the C pointer aliasing rules and this code will be compiled in surprising ways (at O2 too, but O3 is somewhat worse)
698 2011-10-05 15:13:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: more developers there
699 2011-10-05 15:13:46 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: specifically how?
700 2011-10-05 15:13:47 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr more?
701 2011-10-05 15:14:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: yes, including people working on webapps and such who are the actual users of JSON-RPC
702 2011-10-05 15:14:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: the question isn't about the implementation, it's about adding an API
703 2011-10-05 15:14:35 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: What aliasing?  Thou shall not have pointers with different types point to the same memory.
704 2011-10-05 15:14:39 <tcatm> gavinandresen: main.cpp compiled with -O2/3 is fine. test_bitcoin.cpp compiled with -O2/3 causes the unit test to fail
705 2011-10-05 15:14:56 <gmaxwell> (excepting char* and unions)
706 2011-10-05 15:15:13 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: um, how is that not standard C?
707 2011-10-05 15:15:21 <luke-jr> especially considering void*
708 2011-10-05 15:15:41 <gmaxwell> You're allowed to do is so long as you don't dereference them. :)
709 2011-10-05 15:15:45 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr heh well ok, but I would really be careful calling most of the people on the forum "developers"
710 2011-10-05 15:15:45 <luke-jr> it's also used in POSIX for networking
711 2011-10-05 15:15:46 <tcatm> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/miner_tests.cpp so this code breaks with -O2
712 2011-10-05 15:16:10 <lfm> POSIX doesnt have code, its only a standard.
713 2011-10-05 15:16:21 <luke-jr> lfm: the standard says to mix pointer types
714 2011-10-05 15:16:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/98650/what-is-the-strict-aliasing-rule  < an example discussion.
715 2011-10-05 15:16:34 <luke-jr> sockaddr, specifically
716 2011-10-05 15:17:00 <lfm> using unions? thats allowed
717 2011-10-05 15:18:14 <luke-jr> you allocate a sockaddr_in, and pass it as a sockaddr*
718 2011-10-05 15:18:48 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you create an address union.
719 2011-10-05 15:18:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'd say there's more JSON-RPC-using developers on the forums than the ML
720 2011-10-05 15:19:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that's not what the POSIX spec is
721 2011-10-05 15:19:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I would disagree but it really doesnt matter...
722 2011-10-05 15:19:50 <gmaxwell> The posix spec doesn't say anything about what you do with your code, it only gives you the function interfaces.
723 2011-10-05 15:19:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1429645/how-to-cast-sockaddr-storage-and-avoid-breaking-strict-aliasing-rules
724 2011-10-05 15:20:53 <gmaxwell> Regardless, the C spec has said this since time immortal (or 1990 at least).  And it's an important feature that makes it possible for the compiler to optimize loops without constantly checking that the data in registers weren't changed out from under them.
725 2011-10-05 15:21:59 <gmaxwell> And code that violates the rull will break at _-O2_ though more frequently at O3 (owing to vectorization and stronger loop optimizations), but its the code thats broken not the compiler.
726 2011-10-05 15:22:52 <da2ce7> gmaxwell, shouldn't the compiler catch the strict alising violations at complile time then?
727 2011-10-05 15:23:20 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: it can sometimes. But it can't always tell, because the aliasing is often not obvious from within the context of a compilation unit.
728 2011-10-05 15:24:10 <da2ce7> hmmm, maybe we should be putting bitcoin throogh some tighter static analyisis tools then.
729 2011-10-05 15:24:17 <gmaxwell> With -Wall and -O2 you get -Wstrict-aliasing=3 which will warn prett much only in cases where the compiler is _sure_ something bad will happen... but thats only when all the activity is within a single function.
730 2011-10-05 15:25:44 <lfm> and there are no tools which would catch all cases
731 2011-10-05 15:26:10 <gmaxwell> Well, you can reduce it to the halting problem.
732 2011-10-05 15:26:46 <gmaxwell> and you can write code that looks like if(solve NP complete problem){commit violation}.  :)
733 2011-10-05 15:27:10 <whiteman> How do I unencrypt the wallet for a send via RPC?
734 2011-10-05 15:27:12 <gmaxwell> -Wstrict-aliasing=1 is pretty good but it also warns on a lot of stuff thats okay.
735 2011-10-05 15:27:24 <gmaxwell> whiteman: unlock
736 2011-10-05 15:27:31 <whiteman> kthx
737 2011-10-05 15:27:46 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #50: STILL FAILING in 9 min 43 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/50/
738 2011-10-05 15:28:07 <cuqa> i have heard that you can send bitcoins without an added fee by waiting a specific amount of confirmations prior to sending
739 2011-10-05 15:28:19 <gmaxwell> Someone should ask bitcoin to be added to the coverity open source scans.
740 2011-10-05 15:28:39 <gmaxwell> cuqa: sure, almost all transactions are like that.
741 2011-10-05 15:28:41 <cuqa> is this true, and if yes are you able to tell bitcoin that it should only feeless bitcoins?
742 2011-10-05 15:28:49 <BlueMatt> there we go, now its actually failing...:)
743 2011-10-05 15:28:52 <cuqa> only use
744 2011-10-05 15:29:15 <gmaxwell> cuqa: It will avoid paying a fee if it can. In the GUI client if it must it will ask for your approval.
745 2011-10-05 15:29:20 <gmaxwell> cuqa: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees