1 2011-10-20 05:42:04 <phantomcircuit> slush, hey i know someone who does ddos mitigation
  2 2011-10-20 05:42:23 <phantomcircuit> slush, can you give more details about the specific type of attack you're being hit with? i'll try and get him to give you a quote
  3 2011-10-20 05:43:20 <phantomcircuit> !seen slush
  4 2011-10-20 05:43:21 <spaola> phantomcircuit, slush is right here!
  5 2011-10-20 05:43:27 <phantomcircuit> that bot is useless
  6 2011-10-20 06:24:36 <gjs278> ;;seen "a useful bot, ever"
  7 2011-10-20 06:24:37 <gribble> I have not seen a useful bot, ever.
  8 2011-10-20 10:02:19 <fimp> why is 0.00000002 returned to the sender wallet when the amount to be sent was 1 and then 0.0005 as fee? http://blockexplorer.com/tx/b09bbe4919853a70b90e5fad5af8e0d13ce9d2103d6a888880e19d35a24601d6
  9 2011-10-20 10:03:54 <tcatm> fimp: could be a bug
 10 2011-10-20 10:05:40 <fimp> tcatm, how do we find out?
 11 2011-10-20 10:06:35 <tcatm> can you reproduce it on testnet?
 12 2011-10-20 10:08:16 <fimp> im not the one with the problem. nickname benne will probably join here later to figure it out
 13 2011-10-20 10:09:13 <gmaxwell> What version of bitcoin?
 14 2011-10-20 10:12:35 <fimp> 0.4.0 bitcoind
 15 2011-10-20 10:14:38 <fimp> gmaxwell, ^
 16 2011-10-20 10:16:07 <gmaxwell> so, how sure are we that the amount sent was actually 1? I'm not looking at the code now but by my recollection its simply not possible for it to output less than you asked for.
 17 2011-10-20 10:16:58 <UukGoblin> perhaps a floating point rounding problem somewhere?
 18 2011-10-20 10:17:26 <fimp> UukGoblin, I thought bitcoin didnt use floats
 19 2011-10-20 10:17:30 <gmaxwell> (not that there isn't still a problem here it should have given the 2e-8 up as fee instead of outputting it and paying a fee)
 20 2011-10-20 10:17:33 <UukGoblin> (not necessarily in bitcoin)
 21 2011-10-20 10:18:00 <gmaxwell> 1 is exactly representable in float anyways, however.
 22 2011-10-20 10:18:13 <UukGoblin> mhm
 23 2011-10-20 10:29:09 <cuqa> hey, anyone has an explanation why my bitcoind needs like 10 minutes to start?
 24 2011-10-20 10:29:25 <cuqa> blockchain is up2date
 25 2011-10-20 10:39:40 <Ycros> cuqa: what does debug.log show? I suspect what might be happening is it's loading things off disk, and your disk IO is slow
 26 2011-10-20 10:40:35 <cuqa> Loading addresses...
 27 2011-10-20 10:40:37 <cuqa> dbenv.open strLogDir=/home/btc/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/home/btc/.bitcoin/db.log
 28 2011-10-20 10:40:39 <cuqa> Loaded 256200 addresses
 29 2011-10-20 10:40:41 <cuqa> addresses 589193ms
 30 2011-10-20 10:40:43 <cuqa> Loading block index...
 31 2011-10-20 10:41:25 <tcatm> delete addr.dat
 32 2011-10-20 10:41:28 <Ycros> yarp
 33 2011-10-20 10:41:36 <Ycros> or improve your disk IO
 34 2011-10-20 10:41:38 <cuqa> addr.dat is 68mb, blkindex.dat is 271mb
 35 2011-10-20 10:41:53 <cuqa> blk0001.dat is 659mb
 36 2011-10-20 10:42:00 <cuqa> are those unusual sizes?
 37 2011-10-20 10:42:00 <Ycros> why bdb guys, seriously. ._.
 38 2011-10-20 10:42:12 <sipa> ask satoshi
 39 2011-10-20 10:42:31 <sipa> bdb is nice in theory, but in practice there seem to be some problems
 40 2011-10-20 10:42:34 <Ycros> kill -9 == crashed table
 41 2011-10-20 10:42:35 <Ycros> woot
 42 2011-10-20 10:42:47 <sipa> that shouldn't happen
 43 2011-10-20 10:42:53 <Ycros> except it does
 44 2011-10-20 10:43:11 <sipa> sometimes, indeed, it seems
 45 2011-10-20 10:44:57 <Ycros> is bdb prone to fragmentation? could that be what cuqa is seeing?
 46 2011-10-20 10:45:09 <Ycros> though in theory if I'm loading everything it should just scan sequentially
 47 2011-10-20 10:46:36 <Ycros> or it's just plain FS fragmentation
 48 2011-10-20 10:47:35 <cuqa> ok addr.dat takes long to load
 49 2011-10-20 10:47:46 <cuqa> but blkindex even longer probably?
 50 2011-10-20 10:48:07 <sipa> we need to get rid of addr.dat
 51 2011-10-20 10:48:33 <tcatm> or just keep only a few addresses
 52 2011-10-20 10:49:37 <sipa> yes
 53 2011-10-20 10:49:38 <cuqa> what is blkindex exactly?
 54 2011-10-20 10:49:50 <sipa> everything about blocks that is not in the block chain
 55 2011-10-20 10:50:04 <cuqa> can I delete it too or is it important?
 56 2011-10-20 10:50:04 <sipa> eg, which txouts are spent, and where they are on disk
 57 2011-10-20 10:50:08 <cuqa> oh
 58 2011-10-20 10:50:20 <sipa> you can delete it together with blk00001.dat
 59 2011-10-20 10:50:26 <sipa> it will download again :)
 60 2011-10-20 10:50:34 <cuqa> how long will it take
 61 2011-10-20 10:50:45 <sipa> there is no reason to
 62 2011-10-20 10:50:49 <sipa> unless it's corrupted
 63 2011-10-20 10:51:49 <cuqa> rm addr.dat did help
 64 2011-10-20 10:52:07 <sipa> it will help reducing the loading time of addr.dat
 65 2011-10-20 10:53:02 <cuqa> loading block index still 51477 ms
 66 2011-10-20 10:53:24 <cuqa> but thats definitely better than 20 minutes :)
 67 2011-10-20 10:53:29 <cuqa> thx guys
 68 2011-10-20 10:56:28 <Eliel> so... if I ever get involved with creating another bitcoind implementation, bdb should be avoided? :)
 69 2011-10-20 10:56:39 <sipa> depends
 70 2011-10-20 10:57:04 <sipa> i think bdb is fine for server environnements, which is where the current bitcoind's codebase may end up
 71 2011-10-20 10:59:43 <Eliel> looks like block-index load on my system takes 43761ms currently.
 72 2011-10-20 11:52:12 <Ycros> Eliel: I vote, yes.
 73 2011-10-20 11:53:24 <Ycros> Eliel: would it be in Haskell? :)
 74 2011-10-20 11:53:56 <Eliel> yes, that's probably the only one I might end up involved with. I don't see much point reimplementing it in other languages :)
 75 2011-10-20 11:54:53 <Eliel> and Haskell is the only language from the functional spectrum that I'm ... umm... not exactly fluent in but... well you get the idea :)
 76 2011-10-20 11:54:55 <sipa> i believe roconnor's implementation just keeps the entire block chain in memory
 77 2011-10-20 11:55:09 <Eliel> roconnor's implementation isn't a full client.
 78 2011-10-20 11:55:12 <sipa> no
 79 2011-10-20 11:55:27 <Eliel> he's building a library that can be used to create bitcoin client.
 80 2011-10-20 11:55:34 <sipa> uhu
 81 2011-10-20 11:56:09 <Ycros> Eliel: I've been reading over the haskell lib
 82 2011-10-20 11:56:14 <Ycros> it's good stuff, very clear code
 83 2011-10-20 11:56:26 <Ycros> then again, it's haskell :P
 84 2011-10-20 11:56:28 <Eliel> yes, I liked it too, mostly :)
 85 2011-10-20 11:56:36 <Eliel> but I haven't read the latest version :)
 86 2011-10-20 11:57:14 <Ycros> it seem the hard stuff is mostly done
 87 2011-10-20 11:57:26 <Eliel> Yes, I love how Haskell implicitly enforces readable code. :)
 88 2011-10-20 11:57:33 <sipa> i was surprised by the compactness of the ecdsa implementation
 89 2011-10-20 11:57:39 <Ycros> from here, it's mainly network protocols
 90 2011-10-20 11:57:45 <Ycros> and persistence
 91 2011-10-20 11:57:57 <Ycros> well, actually, the serialization stuff is done too
 92 2011-10-20 11:58:02 <Ycros> so it's only really the network handling
 93 2011-10-20 11:58:03 <Eliel> unreadable code will end up exponentially piling up the unreadability so fast that even the author can't manage it soon :)
 94 2011-10-20 12:02:07 <gmaxwell> Eliel: I never found other people's haskell to be to oreadable! :)
 95 2011-10-20 12:02:19 <gmaxwell> But I don't know haskell, alas.
 96 2011-10-20 12:03:25 <Eliel> gmaxwell: it takes a while to get used to :)
 97 2011-10-20 12:03:40 <Eliel> a looong while :)
 98 2011-10-20 12:04:24 <Eliel> I'd say it's worth it though :)
 99 2011-10-20 12:09:01 <gmaxwell> Eliel: One thing that worries me about haskell that contributes to me not learning it is this negative expirence I have with python where writing fast/memory efficient code requires a lot of specialized skill vs boring code. (and also results in code which is less readable)
100 2011-10-20 12:09:52 <gmaxwell> For a while I had this view "my time is valuable, cpu time is cheap" and wrote a bunch of stuff in python figuring I could just throw more cpu at it.  ... only to find it was slow and when I recoded it in C I could get things like a 2000x speedup. :-/
101 2011-10-20 12:10:14 <gmaxwell> (to be fair, I know nothing about writing fast python code and I know a bunch about writing fast C code)
102 2011-10-20 12:10:19 <Eliel> gmaxwell: if getting every possible ounce of performance out of the code is a top priority, Haskell is probably not the tool you need.
103 2011-10-20 12:10:54 <gmaxwell> Sure, every ounce wasn't my concern.. but 2000x is a long way from every ounce.
104 2011-10-20 12:11:00 <Eliel> Haskell specializes in generating correct code.
105 2011-10-20 12:11:09 <Eliel> the compilers are also improving fast.
106 2011-10-20 12:11:28 <Eliel> and yes, the things to pay attention to if you want fast code are different
107 2011-10-20 12:11:47 <Eliel> although, pretty often, prettier code also runs faster
108 2011-10-20 12:12:17 <Eliel> because prettier usually means simpler and that means the compiler is better able to optimize it
109 2011-10-20 12:12:57 <gmaxwell> How hard is it to completely know Haskell? e.g. could most expirenced haskell developers write a working (if horribly slow and inefficient) compiler for it?
110 2011-10-20 12:13:26 <Eliel> anyway, the reason I'm recommending learning Haskell, though, isn't necessarily so you'd write Haskell in the future. It's mostly the thinking patterns needed to code Haskell that I consider useful thing to understand.
111 2011-10-20 12:14:06 <doublec> somone is writing a haskell bitcoin library?
112 2011-10-20 12:14:15 <Eliel> I can't really answer that for sure.
113 2011-10-20 12:14:17 <Eliel> doublec: yes
114 2011-10-20 12:14:19 <gmaxwell> doublec: there is a haskell implementation, I thought.
115 2011-10-20 12:14:21 <Eliel> roconnor
116 2011-10-20 12:14:36 <gmaxwell> It does chain validation correctly, IIRC.
117 2011-10-20 12:14:53 <doublec> nice
118 2011-10-20 12:15:17 <Eliel> gmaxwell: but haskell syntax is reasonably simple. Most of the complexities are syntactic sugar that is first simplified before compilation.
119 2011-10-20 12:16:05 <Eliel> I'm not sure what kind of tricks one would need to do to write a working haskell compiler though.
120 2011-10-20 12:17:00 <Eliel> yes, as far as I can see, the Purecoin library roconnor is writing has everything needed to validate the chain.
121 2011-10-20 12:18:01 <Eliel> gmaxwell: I wouldn't call myself experienced Haskell developer :)
122 2011-10-20 12:19:05 <iddo> gmaxwell: regarding speed, comparing to python isn't the same, because haskell can be faster than C for distributed computation: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=threadring&lang=all
123 2011-10-20 12:19:46 <gmaxwell> iddo: the shootout isn't useful. Go look at the code. It's not code anyone would _normally_ write for many languages. It's all hyper-tuned.
124 2011-10-20 12:20:22 <doublec> especially for haskell. they rarely use idiomatic haskell code iirc.
125 2011-10-20 12:20:40 <gmaxwell> (and unreadable in many cases even in languages that are normally pretty readable)
126 2011-10-20 12:21:13 <sipa> gmaxwell: completely knowing Haskell: there are quite some features i know how they behave semantically, but i have no idea how to implement them
127 2011-10-20 12:21:39 <sipa> type inference in the presence of many type system extensions is definitely not trivial, e.g.
128 2011-10-20 12:21:55 <gmaxwell> hm. yea..
129 2011-10-20 12:21:58 <sipa> even if you know how it behaves
130 2011-10-20 12:22:57 <Eliel> gmaxwell: the haskell code for that particular benchmark is remarkably simple and readable :)
131 2011-10-20 12:23:38 <Eliel> of  course, provided you know the libraries it's using
132 2011-10-20 12:24:01 <Eliel> those are pretty standard ones though
133 2011-10-20 12:25:46 <gmaxwell> Is there a logic programming / constraint solver library people commonly use with haskell?
134 2011-10-20 12:26:43 <Ycros> gmaxwell: Parsing is one thing that's fantastically easy in Haskell
135 2011-10-20 12:26:51 <Ycros> first thing I ever did in haskell was write a parser
136 2011-10-20 12:26:56 <Ycros> (who needs Hello World?)
137 2011-10-20 12:27:00 <Eliel> gmaxwell: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Logic_programming_example this what you mean?
138 2011-10-20 12:27:35 <doublec> there are gecode wrappers
139 2011-10-20 12:27:38 <Ycros> gmaxwell: Understanding Haskell will make you a better programmer, if you use it or not.
140 2011-10-20 12:27:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: my PhD involved an EDSL for constraint solving in haskell
141 2011-10-20 12:28:05 <sipa> (it used Gecode as a backend, but it's not very usable yet)
142 2011-10-20 12:28:45 <Eliel> also for constraint solving, I found this blog article (didn't read it, obviously) http://overtond.blogspot.com/2008/07/pre.html
143 2011-10-20 12:29:17 <sipa> yes, i used that solver too, but that's not usable for real problems
144 2011-10-20 12:29:24 <doublec> sipa: is that the 'monadic constraint programming' stuff?
145 2011-10-20 12:29:28 <sipa> doublec: yes
146 2011-10-20 12:29:40 <doublec> nifty
147 2011-10-20 12:30:14 <Ycros> gmaxwell: btw, I consider myself a totally pragmatic and "real world" programmer, when I hear someone like sipa talking about Phd stuff like my eyes glaze over
148 2011-10-20 12:30:17 <Ycros> I still like Haskell.
149 2011-10-20 12:30:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: Cool. I use gecode.  I actually like minion a lot but often run into limitations with it, so I've been kinda looking for something to replace minion in my toolbelt.
150 2011-10-20 12:58:43 <fimp> gmaxwell, UukGoblin, tcatm, turned out to be a bug in 3rd party software
151 2011-10-20 12:59:17 <UukGoblin> told'ya ;-]
152 2011-10-20 13:01:40 <tcatm> fimp: which? :)
153 2011-10-20 13:02:19 <fimp> tcatm, I asked a question earlier...
154 2011-10-20 13:03:59 <tcatm> yes, but which 3rd party software has that bug?
155 2011-10-20 13:07:00 <gmaxwell> grep 'float' *.[ch]
156 2011-10-20 13:14:12 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, you want *.cpp ;-]
157 2011-10-20 13:14:20 <UukGoblin> serialize.h contains it ;-]
158 2011-10-20 13:14:37 <UukGoblin> and yeah, bitcoin itself is fine, but things that talk to it via rpc might get confused
159 2011-10-20 13:14:40 <gmaxwell> No, _I_ don't want *.cpp. ;)
160 2011-10-20 13:18:28 <UukGoblin> <flame>cpp is superior by two pluses!</flame>
161 2011-10-20 13:18:57 <sipa> it's a post-increment
162 2011-10-20 13:19:03 <sipa> so c == c++ ;)
163 2011-10-20 13:19:10 <UukGoblin> lulz
164 2011-10-20 13:35:27 <Diablo-D3> >mrb post on HN
165 2011-10-20 13:35:34 <Diablo-D3> now where did that flag link go....
166 2011-10-20 13:35:47 <Diablo-D3> jk
167 2011-10-20 13:37:02 <Diablo-D3> argh!
168 2011-10-20 13:37:05 <Diablo-D3> mrb's karma is more than mine!
169 2011-10-20 13:40:52 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * b3e1ce2468dc r165 / (25 files in 12 dirs): Been a while since I committed and not sure exactly state it's in ATM but some people want to play so pushing to public repo.
170 2011-10-20 13:41:13 <Diablo-D3> bad shadders!
171 2011-10-20 13:41:20 <Diablo-D3> commit frequently!
172 2011-10-20 13:42:00 <shadders> it was a fucking mess there for a while... no one would've been able to make sense of it...
173 2011-10-20 14:00:39 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r6d86ae044920 / (include/bitcoin/validate.hpp src/validate.cpp): Supposed to count *SIG operations, not all operations for CheckBlock sigops check.
174 2011-10-20 14:18:23 <cuqa> can I get the target from a winning hash?
175 2011-10-20 14:19:56 <Eliel> cuqa: no, you can only get an upper bound for the target from a winning hash.
176 2011-10-20 14:20:31 <Eliel> it's entirely possible for the winning hash to be a few orders of magnitude higher than the target though.
177 2011-10-20 14:20:35 <Eliel> even if that's rare.
178 2011-10-20 14:21:22 <Eliel> or is it more accurate to say lower? ... well, I guess you got the idea anyway :)
179 2011-10-20 14:29:44 <Eliel> gmaxwell: did you look at the links I gave you about logic programming and constraint solving?
180 2011-10-20 14:48:18 <pascal> Is there no way to validate that I'm getting the real bitcoin release? There is no https on the website and no md5sum of the releases.
181 2011-10-20 14:48:39 <gmaxwell> the release announcements are signed and have hashes.
182 2011-10-20 14:48:44 <pascal> How can I know that I'm not being man-in-the-middle'd?
183 2011-10-20 14:49:40 <Diablo-D3> pascal: errrr
184 2011-10-20 14:49:43 <Diablo-D3> sf.net supports https
185 2011-10-20 14:49:55 <imsaguy2> pascal, then download the source and compile yourself
186 2011-10-20 14:50:24 <Ycros> pascal: you can ask us for a hash
187 2011-10-20 14:50:30 <Ycros> but then, we might all be bots anyway
188 2011-10-20 14:51:50 <pascal> I'm finding no hash of the file in the release announcement - which btw doesn't support https: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28132490
189 2011-10-20 14:52:22 <pascal> Ycros: I don't know who you are..
190 2011-10-20 14:52:48 <pascal> imsaguy2: I don't have the ressources and skills to read through it all.
191 2011-10-20 14:55:16 <Ycros> yeah that's a bug
192 2011-10-20 14:55:26 <pascal> How can I know I'm not downloading a file that criminals has altered?
193 2011-10-20 14:55:58 <Ycros> http://bitcoin.org/2011/09/23/v0.4.0.html states it contains signatures, but it doesn't.
194 2011-10-20 14:59:42 <pascal> Ycros: and it's written on non-https. which any man-in-the-middle could change
195 2011-10-20 15:01:49 <Ycros> how about github? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/downloads
196 2011-10-20 15:09:08 <gmaxwell> pascal: the mail archive appears to have hidden the signature.
197 2011-10-20 15:09:14 <pascal> Ycros: the only way I know about that repo is because you (who I don't know) are writing it to me in a non-encrypted forum
198 2011-10-20 15:10:06 <Ycros> none of this is real!
199 2011-10-20 15:10:23 <gmaxwell> pascal: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=45410.0
200 2011-10-20 15:10:39 <pascal> gmaxwell: It's still problematic if I can't get verify who's giving me the hash
201 2011-10-20 15:10:58 <gmaxwell> pascal: ITS SIGNED. Use the web of trust to verify the identity of the signer.
202 2011-10-20 15:11:04 <pascal> Ycros: so many got hacked lately and it's a lot of money
203 2011-10-20 15:12:10 <gmaxwell> pascal: Hm? what are you talking about?
204 2011-10-20 15:12:23 <Ycros> PGP sigs, looks good to me.
205 2011-10-20 15:13:27 <pascal> There is a lot of money in doing a man-in-the-middle for bitcoin.org. Imagine controling somebody's client.
206 2011-10-20 15:15:03 <gmaxwell> pascal: No one has done that.
207 2011-10-20 15:15:06 <pascal> Problem is I'm not so much into PGP... So I don't really know how to do this.
208 2011-10-20 15:15:08 <pascal> yet
209 2011-10-20 15:15:16 <gmaxwell> pascal: then how could you be helped at all?
210 2011-10-20 15:15:16 <pascal> perhaps
211 2011-10-20 15:15:35 <pascal> https on bitcoin.org with a HASH. That would help me a lot!
212 2011-10-20 15:16:25 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Your pgp key isn't a member of the web-of-trust strong set. Thats unfortunate. You should fix that get debian developers to sign your key at the next free software related event you end up near.
213 2011-10-20 15:19:45 <gmaxwell> pascal: thats not especially secure because the SSL certificate must be online (of course) it means that anyone who hacks the webserver can update those hashes undetectably.
214 2011-10-20 15:20:14 <gmaxwell> the pgp signature is better because the signing key doesn't need to be kept online unencrypted all the time.
215 2011-10-20 15:20:38 <gmaxwell> Though & you're right that bitcoin.org should be using https.. there was some snafu with domain ownership that might still be impeading that.
216 2011-10-20 15:20:39 <Ycros> PGP is the best method I know to verify something's authenticity
217 2011-10-20 15:21:41 <pascal> Yes - but at least you have to hack the webserver.  Also I don't see why you should remove PGP. just because I don't use it..
218 2011-10-20 15:22:19 <gmaxwell> pascal: The false sense of security isn't great, but fair enough.
219 2011-10-20 15:24:12 <pascal> Having a https connection would greatly reduce the risk for me and a lot of other people. Having a PGP signature helps as well.
220 2011-10-20 15:26:44 <gmaxwell> Almost no one will check the hashes at all.
221 2011-10-20 15:27:02 <gmaxwell> Of those that will, most will check the pgp signatures (which is the gold standard)
222 2011-10-20 15:27:15 <gmaxwell> I'm not opposing https there by any means, just pointing out that its not that big of an improvement.
223 2011-10-20 15:32:14 <pascal> I do. Perhaps I'm a middle segment. The release announcement which is linked to from the unsigned webpage there is no PGP signature as stated.
224 2011-10-20 15:37:40 <pascal> :-)
225 2011-10-20 15:38:13 <nathan7> Hi zooko!
226 2011-10-20 15:38:30 <nathan7> (look at me, I'm all important)
227 2011-10-20 15:57:13 <pascal> gmaxwell: is it something you guys could look at?
228 2011-10-20 16:26:41 <diki> terrytibbs:why are you banned from the forums and labeled as scammer?
229 2011-10-20 16:27:51 <Diablo-D3> isnt that sort of self-evident?
230 2011-10-20 16:28:09 <diki> so it was you
231 2011-10-20 16:28:17 <Diablo-D3> huh?
232 2011-10-20 16:28:21 <Diablo-D3> I cant ban people, remember?
233 2011-10-20 16:28:22 <diki> So what he do?
234 2011-10-20 16:28:27 <Diablo-D3> formus wont let me take out the garbage.
235 2011-10-20 16:28:30 <diki> Diablo-D3:how would i remember?
236 2011-10-20 16:28:42 <Diablo-D3> diki: Ive repeatedly said theymos wont let me have the banhammer
237 2011-10-20 16:28:49 <Diablo-D3> I say this pretty much on a bidaily basis
238 2011-10-20 16:29:37 <diki> so..notch will soon start cleaning out the bugs
239 2011-10-20 16:29:48 <diki> and maybe just maybe have a bug-free Minecraft
240 2011-10-20 16:29:51 <diki> with better performance
241 2011-10-20 16:29:55 <Diablo-D3> bwhahaha
242 2011-10-20 16:29:56 <Diablo-D3> I doubt it
243 2011-10-20 16:30:04 <diki> He's very good at Java
244 2011-10-20 16:30:44 <Diablo-D3> bwhahahahaha
245 2011-10-20 16:30:46 <Diablo-D3> the fuck he is
246 2011-10-20 16:30:48 <gjs278> bugfree performance
247 2011-10-20 16:30:50 <gjs278> are you kidding me
248 2011-10-20 16:31:02 <gjs278> he's added way too much stuff for him to bugfree it
249 2011-10-20 16:31:05 <Diablo-D3> the only bugfree performance is in my pants! and its huge in your mom!
250 2011-10-20 16:31:06 <diki> i said that with sarcasm
251 2011-10-20 16:31:21 <diki> Diablo-D3:nice to see you have a sense of humor
252 2011-10-20 16:33:13 <diki> I do agree thought that the game's changed in terms of gameplay
253 2011-10-20 16:33:22 <diki> potions do make minecraft a bit...dungeony
254 2011-10-20 16:34:15 <diki> once dragons are released, i doubt anything will stop me from calling the game "Dungeons&Dragons"
255 2011-10-20 16:34:20 <nathan7> lol
256 2011-10-20 16:34:32 <nathan7> java.. bugfree..
257 2011-10-20 16:34:33 <gjs278> I'm going straight to the end as soon as they are in smp
258 2011-10-20 16:34:50 <diki> the end as in...the ender world?
259 2011-10-20 16:34:58 <gjs278> yes
260 2011-10-20 16:35:13 <diki> nathan7:you are implying diablo's miner is buggy
261 2011-10-20 16:35:27 <gjs278> it spawns nothing but endermen and enderdragon
262 2011-10-20 16:35:31 <nathan7> diki: Totally.
263 2011-10-20 16:35:34 <gjs278> and there ar eno resources
264 2011-10-20 16:35:49 <diki> i hope it doesnt die like the nether
265 2011-10-20 16:36:04 <diki> i've simply no need to go to the nether
266 2011-10-20 16:36:13 <gjs278> there are a lot of reasons
267 2011-10-20 16:36:15 <gjs278> the blocks
268 2011-10-20 16:36:17 <gjs278> are good
269 2011-10-20 16:36:22 <gjs278> zombie pigmen and gold ore
270 2011-10-20 16:36:38 <diki> ugh...there is no gold ore in the nether
271 2011-10-20 16:36:43 <gjs278> yes there is
272 2011-10-20 16:36:47 <gjs278> you kill pigmen
273 2011-10-20 16:36:49 <gjs278> and they drop it
274 2011-10-20 16:36:50 <diki> just that light source
275 2011-10-20 16:37:27 <diki> What i need is wooden bucket
276 2011-10-20 16:37:39 <gjs278> enjoy picking up lava in a wooden bucket
277 2011-10-20 16:37:49 <diki> that is where the iron bucket comes in
278 2011-10-20 16:38:06 <diki> i literally have water 10 blocks away from me...and i cant fucking pick it up
279 2011-10-20 16:38:29 <gjs278> what
280 2011-10-20 16:38:32 <gjs278> get 9 iron
281 2011-10-20 16:38:37 <gjs278> and enjoy your buckets
282 2011-10-20 16:38:40 <diki> as if iron is easy to get
283 2011-10-20 16:38:42 <gjs278> iron is everywhere
284 2011-10-20 16:38:45 <diki> wood on the other hand is
285 2011-10-20 16:39:33 <diki> i will suggest this in the forums
286 2011-10-20 16:40:31 <gjs278> it's feature freeze now though
287 2011-10-20 16:40:57 <diki> code..code freeze
288 2011-10-20 16:41:11 <gjs278> it's not a code freeze
289 2011-10-20 16:41:20 <gjs278> if it's a code freeze he couldnt fix bugs
290 2011-10-20 16:41:29 <diki> http://www.minecraftforum.net/news/275-minecraft-code-freeze-in-effect/
291 2011-10-20 16:41:46 <gjs278> notch is wrong then
292 2011-10-20 16:41:55 <gjs278> oh
293 2011-10-20 16:41:57 <gjs278> wait
294 2011-10-20 16:41:59 <gjs278> notch is right
295 2011-10-20 16:42:01 <gjs278> Feature freeze! The boss fight is technically in the game. The fact that it sucks can be considered a bug, right? =D (right?)
296 2011-10-20 16:42:02 <gjs278> right there
297 2011-10-20 16:42:04 <gjs278> click the link
298 2011-10-20 16:42:11 <gjs278> http://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/126319345054924800
299 2011-10-20 16:42:15 <gjs278> nice code freeze
300 2011-10-20 16:45:40 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r573aacef1aba /src/ (kernel.cpp storage/postgresql_storage.cpp): Shouldn't send getdata with 0 inventories.
301 2011-10-20 16:45:41 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rb63a34405242 /src/storage/postgresql_storage.cpp: Faster way to find maximum depth for best chain for creating block locator.
302 2011-10-20 17:05:43 <diki> On a side note, while i am no coder and should not be criticizing other people's work which i've gotten for free NOR endorse the author to stop coding it, but i've been looking at pushpoold and more specifically minerd aka the original cpu miner by jgarzik and have to say that there is just too much code for not so much stuff to be done..it feels like he has added unnecesary code in there
303 2011-10-20 17:10:02 <diki> Even btcguild's pool operator has confirmed that pushpoold should be much faster than it is, where the java pool backend poolserverj is much faster
304 2011-10-20 17:15:43 <diki> I agree that a lot of people probably do not use gcc's switches to further optimize the program, but they help and are available in the GCC documentation
305 2011-10-20 18:04:29 <gorgon> sup brodogs
306 2011-10-20 19:46:00 <Davincij15> Ok someone better take me seriously cuz I am sell all my BTC right now.. I WAS ABLE TO DOUBLE SPEND!
307 2011-10-20 19:46:17 <Davincij15> I run nmcbit.com
308 2011-10-20 19:46:52 <cjdelisl1> do you have the transaction ids?
309 2011-10-20 19:46:56 <cjdelisl1> and the blocks?
310 2011-10-20 19:48:22 <Davincij15> Yes I will give them to you one sec but first off who are you?
311 2011-10-20 19:48:31 <Davincij15> are you a bitcoin developer?
312 2011-10-20 19:48:43 <diki> Davincij15:does it matter?
313 2011-10-20 19:49:40 <Davincij15> ok guess not but I would like some answers as I dead serious about this.
314 2011-10-20 19:49:56 <gmaxwell> Well we'd need to see the transactions in order to start answering anything.
315 2011-10-20 19:50:11 <diki> sounds fake..
316 2011-10-20 19:50:52 <Davincij15> "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0"
317 2011-10-20 19:51:02 <gmaxwell> And?
318 2011-10-20 19:51:03 <Davincij15> "b9ae43be271acb94658307720ebca086bb8933eabceec82a3cdea12612ff5254"
319 2011-10-20 19:51:08 <rjk2> could be possible since slush has been offline for a day, he had over 1thsh on it and removing that suddenly could screw things up
320 2011-10-20 19:51:21 <gmaxwell> rjk2: .... no thats nonsense. Be quiet.
321 2011-10-20 19:51:53 <Davincij15> "eb5e1defca6d2413bc00a750d9f67e15f99753cff0476130647cd2ee9f4e6c74"
322 2011-10-20 19:54:10 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: okay, I see these three transactions they were mined in blocks 150004, 150040, and 150040 respectively.
323 2011-10-20 19:54:16 <gmaxwell> None of them have an input in common.
324 2011-10-20 19:54:24 <gmaxwell> Why do you believe they were a double spend?
325 2011-10-20 19:55:49 <gjs278> lol namecoins
326 2011-10-20 19:56:14 <Davincij15> You can see in my transaction list...
327 2011-10-20 19:56:28 <Davincij15> the transactions are the same up to a point in both computers
328 2011-10-20 19:56:38 <Davincij15> (I have 2 with the same wallet)
329 2011-10-20 19:56:49 <Davincij15> Then they go out of sync
330 2011-10-20 19:57:02 <Davincij15> And one wallet had the money spent the other did notl
331 2011-10-20 19:57:15 <gjs278> have you actually tried to spend the money from the other wallet yet
332 2011-10-20 19:57:30 <gmaxwell> Yes, that happens when you put one wallet on multiple computer and their keypools eventually get out of wack.
333 2011-10-20 19:57:32 <Ycros> I don't see it either
334 2011-10-20 19:57:43 <gmaxwell> s/computer/computers/
335 2011-10-20 19:59:16 <cjdelisl1> Also actually double spending is not really possible with the vanilla client, you'd have to hack it up pretty good.
336 2011-10-20 19:59:26 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: he's using two clients.
337 2011-10-20 19:59:33 <gmaxwell> You can try to double spend that way.
338 2011-10-20 19:59:44 <gmaxwell> But it won't actually work.
339 2011-10-20 20:00:00 <gmaxwell> And there isn't any evidence here of actual double spending.
340 2011-10-20 20:00:11 <Davincij15> I will put all tx in her that diverge  starting with computer 1
341 2011-10-20 20:00:25 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: Diverging isn't interesting.
342 2011-10-20 20:00:37 <cjdelisl1> I would transfer all of the money on both into another wallet
343 2011-10-20 20:00:44 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: How long have you been spending money from both copies of this wallet?
344 2011-10-20 20:00:52 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: I was about to suggest exactly the same thing.
345 2011-10-20 20:00:58 <Ycros> yeaaaah. What is the correct method for dealing with it?
346 2011-10-20 20:01:03 <cjdelisl1> it will get things back in sync
347 2011-10-20 20:01:21 <Ycros> won't trying to move everything from both potentially break things?
348 2011-10-20 20:01:32 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: you should not run the same wallet on multiple computers because you will confuse yourself when they eventually go out of sync, which is the expected, necessary, and harmless behavior.
349 2011-10-20 20:02:08 <gmaxwell> Ycros: you'll double spend and it won't be successful. :)  But what you should do is send all from one to the new wallet.. wait a bit, then send all from the other.
350 2011-10-20 20:02:16 <gmaxwell> And make sure both are current with the blockchain before you send.
351 2011-10-20 20:02:43 <Davincij15> well lets see if there is something wrong here or not..
352 2011-10-20 20:02:52 <cjdelisl1> I think when you pay one, the other will freak out and be like "oh I don't have that much money after all"
353 2011-10-20 20:03:19 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: well, if they've really diverged then that won't quite happen.
354 2011-10-20 20:03:56 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: when A spends... B will see those txn eventually.. and remove those inputs which have been spent. But if B has inputs A doesn't have because the keypools diverged, then B will still have a balance.
355 2011-10-20 20:04:37 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: so to unscrew yourself you need to get current with the block chain, send all funds from one... then let the other get current (so it sees any of the overlapping inputs go away) then send all its funds.
356 2011-10-20 20:06:11 <cjdelisl1> oh, you I was assuming you'd wait for it to download the block
357 2011-10-20 20:06:12 <neofutur> -resacan can also help in this event ?
358 2011-10-20 20:06:16 <neofutur> -rescan
359 2011-10-20 20:06:47 <Ycros> it'd be nice to have a method to export/import/sync keys
360 2011-10-20 20:06:54 <neofutur> it happened to me once, and it was fixed after a -rescan
361 2011-10-20 20:07:12 <nathan7> it's my birth*day*!
362 2011-10-20 20:07:13 <nathan7> :D
363 2011-10-20 20:07:21 <diki> congrats
364 2011-10-20 20:08:18 <Davincij15> one sec putting it all together
365 2011-10-20 20:08:39 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: if things aren't broken you should see the txn before it gets mined.
366 2011-10-20 20:08:49 <gmaxwell> neofutur: no.
367 2011-10-20 20:08:57 <gmaxwell> neofutur: it shouldn't.
368 2011-10-20 20:09:23 <cjdelisl1> yeap
369 2011-10-20 20:10:02 <cjdelisl1> tx everything, wait for a confirmation, tx everything from other box, wait for a confirmation, see what it looks like
370 2011-10-20 20:10:05 <gmaxwell> Ycros: really you'd want a determinstic wallet if you wanted multiple wallets in-sync otherwise there will always be risk and confusion.
371 2011-10-20 20:10:12 <gmaxwell> (or some kind of active syncing protocol)
372 2011-10-20 20:11:04 <Ycros> some form of simple export/sync would solve the problem now, deterministic wallet is a redesign.
373 2011-10-20 20:11:11 <cjdelisl1> heh I can see people like this getting bitten easily if the rules were changed so miners got to keep doublespends
374 2011-10-20 20:11:29 <lfm> Davincij15: make sure you wait for at least a couple new blocks bewteen switching locations
375 2011-10-20 20:12:31 <Diablo-D3> man
376 2011-10-20 20:12:36 <Diablo-D3> ron paul has raised over $2m in 24 hours
377 2011-10-20 20:12:44 <Diablo-D3> the rest of the republican canidates have zero chance
378 2011-10-20 20:12:49 <OneFixt> o/
379 2011-10-20 20:12:56 <neofutur> gmaxwell: i took one wallet offline, and did -rescan on the other and after some hours I had the good balance . . .
380 2011-10-20 20:12:58 <Diablo-D3> they simply _cant afford it_
381 2011-10-20 20:13:13 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: we still have to fix the voting machines though or else it's all meaningless
382 2011-10-20 20:13:14 <lfm> Diablo-D3: so you think romney's lead will evaporate?
383 2011-10-20 20:13:20 <gmaxwell> Ycros: a fairly modest redesign of the cwallet code.. it's all isolated. Simple export/sync doesn't really solve the problem.
384 2011-10-20 20:13:26 <Diablo-D3> lfm: he doesnt have one
385 2011-10-20 20:13:26 <OneFixt> or... unfix
386 2011-10-20 20:13:45 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: offtopic, but http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/10/ron-paul-media-blackout-confirmed/43747/
387 2011-10-20 20:13:48 <lfm> Diablo-D3: Seemed he had one yesterday
388 2011-10-20 20:13:58 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: I think at this point ron paul is so far ahead in the real world that he'll just run with or without the support of his party
389 2011-10-20 20:14:04 <OneFixt> #bitcoin-ronpaul btw for refernce
390 2011-10-20 20:14:38 <Diablo-D3> the problem with romney is he cant stop being a fucking moron
391 2011-10-20 20:14:55 <Diablo-D3> the polling thats been done is utterly useless
392 2011-10-20 20:15:04 <Diablo-D3> the only thing that matters is cash.
393 2011-10-20 20:15:26 <Diablo-D3> and romney has around $20m, ron paul has more than that, Im not sure how much
394 2011-10-20 20:15:37 <lfm> Diablo-D3: since when has being a moron disqualified one for president?
395 2011-10-20 20:15:43 <Diablo-D3> in july it was 18 vs 13, but ron paul has gotten about $7m since then
396 2011-10-20 20:15:49 <Diablo-D3> lfm: that isnt it
397 2011-10-20 20:16:08 <Diablo-D3> him, santorum, and rick perry are all fighting with each other over the same segment of the republican party
398 2011-10-20 20:16:13 <neofutur> gmaxwell: you re 100 % sure -rescan should not be useful to fix things ?
399 2011-10-20 20:16:19 <Diablo-D3> and they keep fucking each other during debates
400 2011-10-20 20:16:35 <lfm> neofutur: it is usefull but not foolproof
401 2011-10-20 20:16:58 <gmaxwell> neofutur: Seems you've proven it.. but thats surprising, it should have only mattered if you'd been swapping wallets out from under the client.
402 2011-10-20 20:17:12 <neofutur> ok, worked in my case but i just had one receive transaction not showing one one of the wallets
403 2011-10-20 20:17:21 <gmaxwell> If it changes things and you haven't been swapping wallets, then that suggests a bug.
404 2011-10-20 20:17:22 <gjs278> if the republican party runs ron paul, some democrats will vote for him, all republicans will vote for him, he will win
405 2011-10-20 20:17:31 <Davincij15> OK...
406 2011-10-20 20:17:33 <Diablo-D3> notice they havent been able to usefully attack cain or bachmann
407 2011-10-20 20:17:36 <Davincij15> "category" : "send",
408 2011-10-20 20:17:37 <Diablo-D3> and bachmann has zero support
409 2011-10-20 20:18:01 <Diablo-D3> as I see it, the real poll numbers are closer to cain, paul, rick rontorum, and then bachmann
410 2011-10-20 20:18:03 <Davincij15> flood
411 2011-10-20 20:18:05 <Davincij15> :)
412 2011-10-20 20:18:23 <gjs278> cain = token black man = no chance
413 2011-10-20 20:18:27 <Diablo-D3> and paul has this huge libertarian and independent following
414 2011-10-20 20:18:31 <neofutur> gmaxwell: i did not swap wallets afaik, just had the same wallet running on 2 different computers when I received coins
415 2011-10-20 20:18:32 <Diablo-D3> which destroys any of cain's lead
416 2011-10-20 20:18:39 <Davincij15> ok lets do dat again
417 2011-10-20 20:18:40 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: dunno man, hes been polling pretty favorable
418 2011-10-20 20:18:42 <gjs278> paul will leech liberal votes like none other
419 2011-10-20 20:18:44 <neofutur> one seen the received coins, the other not
420 2011-10-20 20:18:45 <Davincij15> "amount" : 50.04210000,
421 2011-10-20 20:18:45 <Davincij15> "txid" : "89924ddb846284559de37f4964abcb9ceb18f8e2688d329e6895daf97fc4ddc7",
422 2011-10-20 20:18:45 <Davincij15> "txid" : "9811453912e7595fc19c862598e1e1a9dd83ce84e8cf4edcaad117c2d6245a73",
423 2011-10-20 20:18:46 <Davincij15> "txid" : "68fd7aa950e9be6c03f95462149204062ede684c8bd1cbfe5e6ad5e7c865fe92",
424 2011-10-20 20:18:48 <Ycros> blah blah blah blah politics blah blah blah
425 2011-10-20 20:18:53 <gjs278> that is because republicans dont want to be racist
426 2011-10-20 20:18:56 <gjs278> so they are trying really hard
427 2011-10-20 20:18:58 <neofutur> took offline one and rescanned on the other
428 2011-10-20 20:19:00 <gjs278> to make cain a frontrunner
429 2011-10-20 20:19:03 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: there is a strong black republican segment
430 2011-10-20 20:19:06 <Eliel> Davincij15: use pastebin please
431 2011-10-20 20:19:07 <Davincij15> "amount" : -46.71535227,
432 2011-10-20 20:19:08 <Davincij15> "amount" : -0.25961552,
433 2011-10-20 20:19:08 <Davincij15> "txid" : "68fd7aa950e9be6c03f95462149204062ede684c8bd1cbfe5e6ad5e7c865fe92",
434 2011-10-20 20:19:09 <Davincij15> "amount" : 50.07950000,
435 2011-10-20 20:19:09 <Ycros> blah blah bleh blah blah politics blah blah bleh blah
436 2011-10-20 20:19:12 <Diablo-D3> which is bizzare since republicans, quote unquote, hate niggers
437 2011-10-20 20:19:14 <gjs278> yes
438 2011-10-20 20:19:19 <gjs278> they do in fact hate negroes
439 2011-10-20 20:19:24 <Davincij15> "amount" : -1.80310835,
440 2011-10-20 20:19:25 <Davincij15> "amount" : -98.19688165,
441 2011-10-20 20:19:25 <Davincij15> "txid" : "2b240ada9eb0498c8f9f478911852313b12719ddae45770871aa7781dafadf2d",
442 2011-10-20 20:19:26 <Davincij15> "txid" : "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0",
443 2011-10-20 20:19:31 <Diablo-D3> why the hell would any black person be a republican
444 2011-10-20 20:19:32 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
445 2011-10-20 20:19:50 <gjs278> they enjoy being the black version of "edgy"
446 2011-10-20 20:20:14 <Diablo-D3> edgy? how about "house negroey"
447 2011-10-20 20:20:16 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: why not /join #bitcoin-ronpaul or #bitcoin-politics ?
448 2011-10-20 20:20:25 <Davincij15> when I noticed it was up to tx fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0
449 2011-10-20 20:20:25 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: because we need less channels not more
450 2011-10-20 20:20:26 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: because an actual republican (ron paul) would tread them as equal humans and not people who need a handout
451 2011-10-20 20:20:30 <neofutur> we re trying to talk of something bitcoin related
452 2011-10-20 20:20:35 <Ycros> this is a dev channel
453 2011-10-20 20:20:41 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: yes, but then you join the libertarian party and support him
454 2011-10-20 20:20:45 <Ycros> not a politics channel, and certainly not a US politics channel
455 2011-10-20 20:20:47 <Diablo-D3> Ycros: yes, and I predate all of you.
456 2011-10-20 20:20:47 <Eliel> Davincij15: please use pastebin for the data.
457 2011-10-20 20:20:49 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: let's continue in the other channel
458 2011-10-20 20:20:51 <lfm> Diablo-D3: the rich blacks are conflicted
459 2011-10-20 20:20:57 <Diablo-D3> rich blacks? where?
460 2011-10-20 20:21:05 <lfm> cain
461 2011-10-20 20:21:11 <Diablo-D3> all 4 of them?
462 2011-10-20 20:21:15 <Eliel> take the politics elsewhere please.
463 2011-10-20 20:21:15 <lfm> ya
464 2011-10-20 20:21:19 <neofutur> +1
465 2011-10-20 20:21:22 <Davincij15> Ok
466 2011-10-20 20:21:37 <Diablo-D3> Eliel: why do you hate America?
467 2011-10-20 20:21:50 <Eliel> this channel is not the place for politics.
468 2011-10-20 20:21:58 <lianj> woa, are these pastebin sites dead
469 2011-10-20 20:22:00 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: okay, I see a whole bunch of transactions there.
470 2011-10-20 20:22:49 <Eliel> the main thing I notice of the pasted transactions is that most of them have no confirmations.
471 2011-10-20 20:23:20 <Davincij15> http://pastebin.com/LLVhSg0E
472 2011-10-20 20:23:23 <Davincij15> and
473 2011-10-20 20:23:28 <gjs278> lol
474 2011-10-20 20:23:35 <gjs278> chris rock has a skit
475 2011-10-20 20:23:37 <gjs278> about rich blacks
476 2011-10-20 20:23:50 <gjs278> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hXBg-U-ac
477 2011-10-20 20:24:09 <neofutur> (00:20) < Diablo-D3> neofutur: because we need less channels not more
478 2011-10-20 20:24:19 <neofutur> we dont need less channels, just need more ops to kick you :p
479 2011-10-20 20:24:27 <Davincij15> http://pastebin.com/9NkrCMTe
480 2011-10-20 20:24:44 <Davincij15> But I think I see the problem
481 2011-10-20 20:25:32 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: lol, ops kicking me