1 2011-10-28 00:50:36 <shadders> argh!  Any news on the wiki?
  2 2011-10-28 00:51:08 <neofutur> should soon be up again
  3 2011-10-28 00:51:18 <neofutur> datacenter migration and routing issues
  4 2011-10-28 01:16:03 <dub> heh, miration issues, and routing and my dog ate it
  5 2011-10-28 01:16:15 <dub> likely stories
  6 2011-10-28 01:16:30 <cocktopus> the dog ate my router
  7 2011-10-28 01:16:52 <cocktopus> i heard thirdhand that the dc cooling system had a leak all over their rack
  8 2011-10-28 01:16:57 <cocktopus> or something
  9 2011-10-28 01:17:03 <dub> maybe one of the trucks stopped to let a dog cross the tube
 10 2011-10-28 01:17:58 <cocktopus> anyways, its behind the same anti-ddos as mtgox is, so its not down due to ddos
 11 2011-10-28 01:18:20 <kiba`> they are trying to extort mtgox?
 12 2011-10-28 01:18:28 <cocktopus> the gox hosts the wiki
 13 2011-10-28 01:18:41 <kiba`> so they are trying to extort mtgox!
 14 2011-10-28 01:19:23 <cocktopus> yeah, with a cooling system that randomly springs a leak in just the right rack
 15 2011-10-28 01:19:23 <kiba`> maybe they will try next to extort the hosting business behind it
 16 2011-10-28 01:19:26 <cocktopus> likely story
 17 2011-10-28 01:20:34 <kiba`> time to escape to sleep
 18 2011-10-28 01:21:08 <dub> to & ?
 19 2011-10-28 01:21:15 <dub> nevermind
 20 2011-10-28 01:22:01 <cocktopus> cheers
 21 2011-10-28 01:22:09 <cocktopus> hitting the hay also
 22 2011-10-28 01:24:20 <neofutur> (05:16) < cocktopus> i heard thirdhand that the dc cooling system had a leak all over their rack
 23 2011-10-28 01:24:23 <neofutur> thats it
 24 2011-10-28 02:03:48 <[1]Denis> Hi all
 25 2011-10-28 02:04:11 <[1]Denis> Is there a library to integrate bitcoin payments into applications?
 26 2011-10-28 04:59:07 <ThomasV> anyone using cinfu.com here ?
 27 2011-10-28 08:45:44 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r74fe352ce7b0 / (7 files in 3 dirs): (input.hash, input.index) -> (input.previous_output.hash, input.previous_output.index) for clarity.
 28 2011-10-28 09:00:45 <UukGoblin> bitcoin.it down?
 29 2011-10-28 09:01:26 <DrHaribo> been down for days
 30 2011-10-28 09:45:43 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r59d4b7f0d998 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Temporary address helper functions (address.hpp).
 31 2011-10-28 11:39:28 <FellowTraveler1> Hi all.
 32 2011-10-28 11:40:54 <FellowTraveler1> Today is the day I add scripting to OT.
 33 2011-10-28 11:41:00 <FellowTraveler1> WIsh me luck.
 34 2011-10-28 11:44:24 <lianj> good luck
 35 2011-10-28 12:06:47 <BlueMatt> morning everyone
 36 2011-10-28 13:54:33 <slush> is there some website listing transactions not yet included in blocks?
 37 2011-10-28 13:55:29 <gmaxwell> slush: yes. http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
 38 2011-10-28 13:56:26 <gmaxwell> slush: though it won't list ones that didn't even make it to the monitoring node, of course.
 39 2011-10-28 14:07:19 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell graingert set up a second ppa for libdb4.8++-dev and set the bitcoin one to depend on it for build (note that end users dont need this ppa as only libdb4.8++-dev was removed not libdb4.8)
 40 2011-10-28 14:07:20 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 41 2011-10-28 14:20:01 <slush> gmaxwell: thanks
 42 2011-10-28 14:54:35 <snimpy> ;;bc,diffchange
 43 2011-10-28 14:54:37 <gribble> Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | -17.1029909894 % based on data since last change | -25.1708012959 % based on data for last three days
 44 2011-10-28 14:55:00 <snimpy> ;;bc,estimate
 45 2011-10-28 14:55:01 <gribble> 1217090.09559653
 46 2011-10-28 14:55:39 <snimpy> ;;bc,timetonext
 47 2011-10-28 14:56:30 <snimpy> ;;bc,stats
 48 2011-10-28 14:56:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 150929 | Current Difficulty: 1468195.4272208 | Next Difficulty At Block: 151199 | Next Difficulty In: 270 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 8 hours, 46 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1217090.09559653 | Estimated Percent Change: -17.1029909894
 49 2011-10-28 15:50:57 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rb3faf96f7c4a / (5 files in 3 dirs): Patch for occasional dropped hashContinue.
 50 2011-10-28 16:36:00 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: re: email...did you mean why there is no rc2 out yet, or do you plan on going from rc1 to release?
 51 2011-10-28 16:36:34 <BlueMatt> also, where are you with win32 builds?
 52 2011-10-28 16:36:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
 53 2011-10-28 16:37:02 <gavinandresen> Once everything will build on all platforms, I want to update all of the doc/build*.txt files to actually document how to build, then tag it rc2, rebuild, and hopefully that is the release
 54 2011-10-28 16:37:15 <BlueMatt> m, fair enough
 55 2011-10-28 16:38:12 <BlueMatt> also, where are you with win32 builds?
 56 2011-10-28 16:38:42 <gavinandresen> RE: win32 builds:  I still haven't managed to get a win32 build that runs
 57 2011-10-28 16:39:08 <gavinandresen> ... maybe because Qt comes with its own mingw toolchain....
 58 2011-10-28 16:39:24 <gavinandresen> ... and I think I end up compiling dependencies with different versions of mingw
 59 2011-10-28 16:39:39 <BlueMatt> yuck...
 60 2011-10-28 16:39:47 <BlueMatt> it seems like its always easier to just xcompile...
 61 2011-10-28 16:40:18 <gavinandresen> That's not a good way to attract windows developers, though.
 62 2011-10-28 16:40:31 <gavinandresen> And I think we could use more windows developers.
 63 2011-10-28 16:40:35 <BlueMatt> true...
 64 2011-10-28 16:40:49 <BlueMatt> but others have compiled bitcoin-qt on win32, correct?
 65 2011-10-28 16:41:39 <gavinandresen> I hear they have.  I grabbed Wladimir's dependencies bundle, but it didn't include miniupnpc, was an older version of boost, ....
 66 2011-10-28 16:42:34 <BlueMatt> arg db4.8 builds take forever...test suite takes like 15 minutes alone...
 67 2011-10-28 16:43:04 <BlueMatt> in other news bitcoin ppa should be ready to go in the next couple hours (its already fine for everyone except oneiric users...)
 68 2011-10-28 16:45:05 <Eliel> BlueMatt: that ppa will be very nice. No more manual upgrades needed for me :)
 69 2011-10-28 16:45:21 <BlueMatt> thats the idea
 70 2011-10-28 16:45:36 <BlueMatt> https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin/+packages
 71 2011-10-28 16:46:15 <Guest75201> BlueMatt: what was the fix for oneiric?
 72 2011-10-28 16:46:49 <BlueMatt> I left a gribble msg...but:  set up a second ppa for libdb4.8++-dev and set the bitcoin one to depend on it for build (note that end users dont need this ppa as only libdb4.8++-dev was removed not libdb4.8)
 73 2011-10-28 16:46:50 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r256 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (DownloadListener.java Peer.java): Notify even if nothing to download, resolves issue 90
 74 2011-10-28 16:47:09 <BlueMatt> though Im actually second-guessing that second part now...
 75 2011-10-28 16:47:22 <BlueMatt> Im pretty sure every oneiric user will need it...
 76 2011-10-28 16:47:35 <graingert> get msgs
 77 2011-10-28 16:47:53 <graingert> BlueMatt: Gribble has yet to notice me
 78 2011-10-28 16:48:05 <BlueMatt> ask gribble ;;whoami
 79 2011-10-28 16:48:18 <BlueMatt> actually, no that wont work...
 80 2011-10-28 16:48:22 <BlueMatt> might have to /part /join
 81 2011-10-28 16:48:34 <graingert> I /msg ed him
 82 2011-10-28 16:48:39 <graingert> /her
 83 2011-10-28 16:49:04 <graingert> BlueMatt: ah okay that's cool
 84 2011-10-28 16:49:19 <graingert> it might be worth thinking about moving to the new lib
 85 2011-10-28 16:54:46 <graingert> does it break compatibility with the old format?
 86 2011-10-28 16:57:56 <BlueMatt> yea
 87 2011-10-28 16:58:06 <Eliel> if it does, it might be worthwhile to change the name of the wallet file the new version uses. So, the old wallet is safe in case things go wrong (or the user wants to return)
 88 2011-10-28 16:58:19 <BlueMatt> I would just link against system default, but then wallets arent compatible between systems...
 89 2011-10-28 16:59:16 <BlueMatt> wouldnt be a big deal if it was like db4.7 vs db4.8, but its a major revision
 90 2011-10-28 16:59:25 <BlueMatt> which means not only db logs but actual db files are incompatible
 91 2011-10-28 17:01:25 <BlueMatt> the problem is db5.X is too new to start linking everything against it - many semi-old but still heavily used distros dont have db5.X
 92 2011-10-28 17:04:12 <graingert> BlueMatt: Why is the wallet file a database? why not use a standard structured format
 93 2011-10-28 17:04:19 <graingert> eg json/xml
 94 2011-10-28 17:04:30 <BlueMatt> because thats what satoshi chose...
 95 2011-10-28 17:04:33 <graingert> then parse it into a database format
 96 2011-10-28 17:04:45 <graingert> well if you're going to break compatability with the old wallets
 97 2011-10-28 17:04:58 <BlueMatt> seems like every month or so someone will decide we need to switch to (insert name of db/file format here)
 98 2011-10-28 17:05:01 <graingert> it would be worth investigating a format that won't be mucked up by libs
 99 2011-10-28 17:05:03 <BlueMatt> and will make a ton of noise...
100 2011-10-28 17:05:14 <BlueMatt> though its usually sqlite
101 2011-10-28 17:05:42 <graingert> the file format should be something that isn't going to changer
102 2011-10-28 17:05:45 <graingert> change*
103 2011-10-28 17:06:12 <graingert> it could be parsed into whatever format people want
104 2011-10-28 17:06:16 <BlueMatt> yea, that would be nice, but using xml isnt much of an option because we want things like commits, etc
105 2011-10-28 17:06:17 <graingert> and be called wallet.db
106 2011-10-28 17:06:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
107 2011-10-28 17:06:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what were your "comments" about the ppa?
108 2011-10-28 17:06:52 <BlueMatt> never got those and nanotbe said he didnt see any...
109 2011-10-28 17:06:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: none
110 2011-10-28 17:06:56 <BlueMatt> oh...
111 2011-10-28 17:07:10 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: just indicated general approval of you doing a ppa
112 2011-10-28 17:07:19 <BlueMatt> oh, ok nice
113 2011-10-28 17:07:27 <graingert> BlueMatt: what goes in the wallet other than key pairs?
114 2011-10-28 17:07:32 <graingert> It used to be everything
115 2011-10-28 17:07:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the only point I was trying to make the other day was that ppa'ing should not add additional devteam burdens :)
116 2011-10-28 17:08:00 <BlueMatt> agreed
117 2011-10-28 17:08:06 <BlueMatt> graingert: txes
118 2011-10-28 17:08:09 <BlueMatt> settings
119 2011-10-28 17:08:12 <BlueMatt> (still)
120 2011-10-28 17:08:29 <BlueMatt> dont remember, go skim bitcointools src
121 2011-10-28 17:08:40 <graingert> BlueMatt: In that case I propose putting the keys and things in a wallet file
122 2011-10-28 17:09:00 <graingert> and then parsing that into a database.brk
123 2011-10-28 17:09:06 <BlueMatt> go for it...but for now libdb has to be repackaged into bitcoin/bitcoin...Ill do that later
124 2011-10-28 17:09:08 <graingert> that is system dependant
125 2011-10-28 17:09:30 <Diablo-D3> http://www.cnx-software.com/2011/10/28/st-micro-15-usd-stm32f4-discovery-cortex-m-development-kit/
126 2011-10-28 17:09:30 <graingert> well if someone writes a spec
127 2011-10-28 17:09:32 <Diablo-D3> ooh
128 2011-10-28 17:09:39 <Diablo-D3> $15 cortex-m4 dev kit
129 2011-10-28 17:10:10 <graingert> BlueMatt: Sorry , a blueprint
130 2011-10-28 17:11:50 <graingert> where do bitcoin blueprints go?
131 2011-10-28 17:12:35 <BlueMatt> BIPs I would say
132 2011-10-28 17:12:37 <imsaguy> so you want someone to build the VS binaries just to make sure they work?
133 2011-10-28 17:12:49 <imsaguy> I could do that.
134 2011-10-28 17:12:53 <graingert> BlueMatt: BIP?
135 2011-10-28 17:13:17 <graingert> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIP
136 2011-10-28 17:13:20 <BlueMatt> yea
137 2011-10-28 17:13:29 <BlueMatt> actually, no file format doesnt belong there...
138 2011-10-28 17:13:35 <BlueMatt> I guess mailing list then
139 2011-10-28 17:13:54 <BlueMatt> Id say mailing list
140 2011-10-28 17:13:58 <Diablo-D3> bi-image plane?
141 2011-10-28 17:14:20 <BlueMatt> bbl, Ill finish the packaging then...
142 2011-10-28 17:14:26 <BlueMatt> (hopefully today...)
143 2011-10-28 17:16:32 <graingert> BlueMatt: awesome
144 2011-10-28 17:16:47 <edcba> hmm why old versions harm my security ?
145 2011-10-28 17:16:55 <graingert> edcba: no passphrase support
146 2011-10-28 17:17:01 <edcba> lol ok
147 2011-10-28 17:17:10 <edcba> didn't know it was added
148 2011-10-28 17:17:13 <graingert> and even older it might have security bugs
149 2011-10-28 17:17:49 <edcba> yes i fear more security bugs than passphrase :)
150 2011-10-28 17:18:08 <gmaxwell> Well, old verions will display and forward a certian kind of transaction which can never be mined.
151 2011-10-28 17:18:20 <gmaxwell> So you might be tricked into accepting a crap payment.
152 2011-10-28 17:18:30 <edcba> very old then i guess
153 2011-10-28 17:18:41 <gavinandresen> graingert: BIP == Bitcoin Improvement Proposal
154 2011-10-28 17:18:41 <graingert> only if you pay out on 0 confirms
155 2011-10-28 17:18:49 <gmaxwell> graingert: indeed.
156 2011-10-28 17:19:10 <graingert> gavinandresen: awesome, is that something formal somewhere?
157 2011-10-28 17:19:27 <gavinandresen> Ah, bitcoin wiki is back up
158 2011-10-28 17:19:50 <gavinandresen> graingert: see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Improvement_Proposals
159 2011-10-28 17:19:53 <graingert> gavinandresen: and can I get your opinion on having an interchangeable format  for wallets?
160 2011-10-28 17:20:12 <graingert> so we don't have issues with OS's not supporting different versions of berkley DB
161 2011-10-28 17:20:31 <gavinandresen> graingert: you'll be trading one set of problems for another....
162 2011-10-28 17:20:39 <graingert> that's true
163 2011-10-28 17:20:48 <graingert> but I believe the problems would only be once
164 2011-10-28 17:20:58 <gavinandresen> graingert:  a database is nice because you (should) get transactional integrity and disaster recovery.
165 2011-10-28 17:21:31 <graingert> my proposal was to parse this format into the db, the "wallet" file would only contain keys
166 2011-10-28 17:21:44 <gavinandresen> I'm generally against an easy-to-use-on-multiple-machines wallet format, because that will encourage people to do something unsupported-- try to use the same wallet on multiple machines at the same time
167 2011-10-28 17:22:42 <graingert> in that case I'm changing my proposal
168 2011-10-28 17:22:54 <gavinandresen> I don't think ordinary users are very good at key management.... and I don't think "we" have thought hard enough about it, either
169 2011-10-28 17:23:09 <graingert> have an export system, that uses the standard ascii armored key format
170 2011-10-28 17:23:23 <graingert> replace every mention of backup your wallet
171 2011-10-28 17:23:26 <graingert> with export your keys
172 2011-10-28 17:23:38 <graingert> on the wiki
173 2011-10-28 17:25:08 <graingert> thoughts/feelings, gavinandresen?
174 2011-10-28 17:25:32 <gavinandresen> graingert: knock yourself out, but that kind of stuff is WAAAY down my priority list.  Mostly because I think most users are going to be running bitcoin via a web interface or on their mobile device
175 2011-10-28 17:25:47 <gavinandresen> ... and those ways of running bitcoin will take care of handling their private keys for the user
176 2011-10-28 17:26:13 <graingert> hmm
177 2011-10-28 17:26:57 <graingert> gavinandresen: the thing is we are having the problem now
178 2011-10-28 17:27:08 <gavinandresen> If you're a sophisticated computer geek who will know how to keep an ascii armored key format safe, then I don't really care about you.  You can take care of yourself, if if that means backing up wallet.dat ....
179 2011-10-28 17:27:33 <gavinandresen> Who are "we" and what is the problem?
180 2011-10-28 17:27:49 <graingert> ubuntu oneiric has removed libdb4.8++-dev
181 2011-10-28 17:28:38 <graingert> the current plan is to maintain walletdb compatibility by remaining with the old db format
182 2011-10-28 17:29:28 <gavinandresen> What's the difference between db4.8++ and just db4.8 ?
183 2011-10-28 17:29:43 <graingert> I'm not sure
184 2011-10-28 17:29:49 <gavinandresen> (and does oneiric include the non-++ 4.8?)
185 2011-10-28 17:30:18 <graingert> libdb4.8-dev is included
186 2011-10-28 17:30:22 <gavinandresen> If we're looking for easy solutions, seems to me using non-++ 4.8 would be shortest-path
187 2011-10-28 17:30:44 <graingert> but if people switch to this ppa they will get problems
188 2011-10-28 17:30:45 <gavinandresen> (and making whatever code changes are necessary)
189 2011-10-28 17:30:49 <graingert> with their wallet
190 2011-10-28 17:31:26 <gavinandresen> 4.8++ is just c++ wrappers on top of the c 4.8....   I think?  (I don't actually know for sure)
191 2011-10-28 17:31:36 <graingert> I believe so
192 2011-10-28 17:31:38 <Diablo-D3> yes
193 2011-10-28 17:31:52 <graingert> in that case a c program could be written that would port the formats over
194 2011-10-28 17:32:03 <gavinandresen> db format should be the same
195 2011-10-28 17:32:12 <gavinandresen> ... just might have to change some code
196 2011-10-28 17:32:16 <graingert> not between 4.8 and 5.1 according to BlueMatt
197 2011-10-28 17:32:27 <gavinandresen> I'm saying use db4.8.
198 2011-10-28 17:32:38 <graingert> rather than db4.8++
199 2011-10-28 17:32:43 <gavinandresen> right
200 2011-10-28 17:32:46 <graingert> hmm
201 2011-10-28 17:33:08 <Diablo-D3> the C++ API is identical to the C API
202 2011-10-28 17:33:18 <gavinandresen> Then it should be easy to port.
203 2011-10-28 17:33:24 <Diablo-D3> guess what bitches, C is an OO language!
204 2011-10-28 17:33:33 <graingert> SO
205 2011-10-28 17:34:33 <graingert> (Struct orientated)
206 2011-10-28 17:40:05 <graingert> gavinandresen: currently going for a PPA dependency on a PPAC containing libdb4.8++-dev
207 2011-10-28 17:40:10 <graingert> as this is the quickest fix
208 2011-10-28 17:40:55 <gavinandresen> graingert: cool.
209 2011-10-28 18:18:14 <Eliel> who was it who was running bitcointalk.org forums? There's quite a few old links in the messages there that still link to the old forum, like this one: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=847.0 would it be possible to automatically find them from old messages and convert them? They're somewhat annoying.
210 2011-10-28 18:23:58 <graingert> Eliel: try #bitcoin
211 2011-10-28 18:42:53 <graingert> BlueMatt: Is that the PPA build?
212 2011-10-28 18:43:47 <BlueMatt> its a build I did myself (via debuild) so...half
213 2011-10-28 18:43:54 <BlueMatt> (on oneiric)
214 2011-10-28 18:43:55 <graingert> odd
215 2011-10-28 18:44:15 <graingert> is that with your libdb4.8++-dev ppa?
216 2011-10-28 18:44:23 <BlueMatt> yes
217 2011-10-28 18:44:49 <graingert> hang on you get a segfault _building_
218 2011-10-28 18:44:59 <BlueMatt> no, running
219 2011-10-28 18:45:11 <graingert> damn
220 2011-10-28 18:47:26 <c_k> Eliel: post in the Meta subforum
221 2011-10-28 18:50:20 <BlueMatt> "0x08174e84 in ClientModel::getOptionsModel()"
222 2011-10-28 18:50:25 <BlueMatt> Segfault
223 2011-10-28 18:52:02 <BlueMatt> heh, its already been reported...
224 2011-10-28 18:53:47 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: and...the first blocker :)
225 2011-10-28 18:54:13 <gavinandresen> What is it a bug in?
226 2011-10-28 18:54:21 <BlueMatt> either qt or bitcoin-qt
227 2011-10-28 18:54:30 <BlueMatt> not entirely sure...
228 2011-10-28 18:54:57 <BlueMatt> but googleing only shows up someone reporting a similar bug on here
229 2011-10-28 18:55:13 <gavinandresen> sigh.
230 2011-10-28 18:56:04 <BlueMatt> at least it (would appear to be) easy to reproduce...just install 11.10
231 2011-10-28 18:58:31 <graingert> BlueMatt: Link?
232 2011-10-28 18:58:42 <BlueMatt> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/10/19/4
233 2011-10-28 18:58:50 <BlueMatt> cntrl-f " ClientModel::getOptionsModel()"
234 2011-10-28 18:59:11 <graingert> so it does
235 2011-10-28 20:33:26 <Disposition> ThomasV: cinfu is sitting on ???Hetzner Online and their rep is decent
236 2011-10-28 20:33:40 <ThomasV> huh?
237 2011-10-28 20:34:17 <Disposition> cinfu is hosted on and buy ???Hetzner Online, another hosting company
238 2011-10-28 20:34:29 <Disposition> by*
239 2011-10-28 20:34:52 <ThomasV> oh that's in response to me this morning?
240 2011-10-28 20:35:02 <Disposition> ay, I just scrolled over
241 2011-10-28 20:35:11 <ThomasV> my vps was down, but they fixed it
242 2011-10-28 20:35:22 <Disposition> k ;)
243 2011-10-28 21:05:09 <Diablo-D3> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/invisible-glass-may-solve-screen-reflection-problems-20111028/
244 2011-10-28 21:05:10 <Diablo-D3> DOWANT
245 2011-10-28 21:08:11 <imsaguy> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/research-team-create-transistors-using-cotton-fibers-20111028/
246 2011-10-28 21:09:18 <Diablo-D3> imsaguy: saw that one
247 2011-10-28 21:09:19 <Diablo-D3> its lol
248 2011-10-28 21:32:28 <graingert> !later tell BlueMatt  bitcoin-qt : Depends: libdb4.8++ but it is not installable
249 2011-10-28 21:32:28 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
250 2011-10-28 21:33:00 <graingert> !later tell BlueMatt it looks like you're going to have to change to libdb5.1++ or libdb4.8 on the PPA
251 2011-10-28 21:33:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
252 2011-10-28 22:27:48 <joepie91> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50162.0
253 2011-10-28 22:29:24 <graingert> joepie91: hook it up to bitcoinjs and off you go
254 2011-10-28 22:29:43 <graingert> joepie91: back button should use pushhistory
255 2011-10-28 22:30:00 <joepie91> it's a html/css mockup for an alternative desktop client UI
256 2011-10-28 22:30:02 <joepie91> not as a webclient :P
257 2011-10-28 22:30:17 <graingert> joepie91: so? what's wrong with a web client
258 2011-10-28 22:30:18 <joepie91> just made it with html/css/js since it was easiest to make an interactive mockup in that
259 2011-10-28 22:30:31 <joepie91> I think that's a whole different discussion
260 2011-10-28 22:30:51 <graingert> joepie91: I can't understand the most recent transactions at a glance
261 2011-10-28 22:31:00 <graingert> not enough lines
262 2011-10-28 22:31:14 <joepie91> how do you mean not enough lines?
263 2011-10-28 22:31:25 <graingert> it's a table that I think needs borders
264 2011-10-28 22:31:41 <graingert> I think get rid of the from and to
265 2011-10-28 22:32:04 <graingert> turn the sent/recived into column headings
266 2011-10-28 22:32:05 <joepie91> the borders I can understand, but why get rid of the from and to?
267 2011-10-28 22:32:10 <joepie91> um
268 2011-10-28 22:32:17 <joepie91> did you read the top few lines in the post?
269 2011-10-28 22:32:50 <graingert> hang on
270 2011-10-28 22:33:13 <graingert> joepie91: is this on github?
271 2011-10-28 22:33:25 <graingert> joepie91: I'll show you how I think I can improce it
272 2011-10-28 22:33:28 <graingert> improve*
273 2011-10-28 22:34:08 <graingert> and there is a bug as clicking on the most recent transactions takes you to the transaction list
274 2011-10-28 22:34:21 <graingert> transaction details*
275 2011-10-28 22:34:31 <graingert> if you click back it goes to the transaction list
276 2011-10-28 22:35:30 <graingert> there is no "my address"
277 2011-10-28 22:35:33 <joepie91> not on github, but 1 sec
278 2011-10-28 22:35:40 <joepie91> yes, that is what the recent addresses is for
279 2011-10-28 22:36:00 <graingert> I thought that was the address book?
280 2011-10-28 22:36:10 <graingert> oh I see
281 2011-10-28 22:36:15 <joepie91> the recent addresses should only show the users own addresses
282 2011-10-28 22:36:21 <joepie91> 1 sec, my upload script is playing up, wtf
283 2011-10-28 22:36:28 <graingert> you mean git ?
284 2011-10-28 22:36:30 <joepie91> no
285 2011-10-28 22:36:38 <graingert> le upload script?
286 2011-10-28 22:36:49 <joepie91> I have my own storage grid, and I was _trying_ to upload an archive to it
287 2011-10-28 22:36:51 <joepie91> (I don't use git)
288 2011-10-28 22:36:59 <graingert> o
289 2011-10-28 22:37:12 <joepie91> web uploader it is
290 2011-10-28 22:37:26 <joepie91> http://tahoe-gateway.cryto.net:3719/download/VVJJOkNISzpmd3c0Z3VkZWpzcnliM2dkZnpmcnY2amVkdTp0NmdtYms3NHBzZGZvNzR6NXZwaWF0cnRkbjdrYjVkeGs3dGZycG42bXBicWtjcXlyNG1xOjM6MTA6NjI2NDYx/bitcoinui.tar.gz
291 2011-10-28 22:37:34 <graingert> ...
292 2011-10-28 22:37:47 <graingert> make it a github project
293 2011-10-28 22:37:51 <graingert> so much easier
294 2011-10-28 22:37:54 <gmaxwell> wtf: https://blockexplorer.com/tx/6d5088c138e2fbf4ea7a8c2cb1b57a76c4b0a5fab5f4c188696aad807a5ba6d8
295 2011-10-28 22:38:01 <joepie91> I have zero experience with git and don't currently have the time to learn how to work with it
296 2011-10-28 22:38:05 <gmaxwell> I bet someone seriously regrets that luke mines nonstandard TXN!!!
297 2011-10-28 22:38:44 <graingert> OP_HASH160 0
298 2011-10-28 22:38:48 <graingert> lol
299 2011-10-28 22:39:08 <gmaxwell> https://blockexplorer.com/tx/aa62bdd690de061a6fbbd88420f7a7aa574ba86da4fe82edc27e2263f8743988
300 2011-10-28 22:39:11 <gmaxwell> and another one!
301 2011-10-28 22:39:21 <gmaxwell> wow. someone is buring coins like its a firesale.
302 2011-10-28 22:40:07 <graingert> holy shit
303 2011-10-28 22:40:21 <Eliel> are those going into a blackhole address?
304 2011-10-28 22:40:40 <graingert> Eliel: no they aren't even going into an address
305 2011-10-28 22:40:49 <graingert> gmaxwell: maybe it's satoshi?
306 2011-10-28 22:41:49 <gmaxwell> Thats an eligius block.
307 2011-10-28 22:41:52 <gmaxwell> And it paid no fee.
308 2011-10-28 22:42:08 <gmaxwell> So I would take bets that mtgox fucked up.
309 2011-10-28 22:42:11 <Eliel> those look to be going into adress "0" :P
310 2011-10-28 22:42:11 <graingert> luke-jr ^
311 2011-10-28 22:42:24 <graingert> gmaxwell: how would mtgox do this?
312 2011-10-28 22:42:37 <graingert> are they using their own bitcoind ?
313 2011-10-28 22:43:00 <gmaxwell> Well luke is saying he doesn't know how it got accepted, so I retract my guess.
314 2011-10-28 22:43:28 <graingert> gmaxwell: it's not luke's?
315 2011-10-28 22:43:33 <luke-jr> graingert: MtGox does not use bitcoind
316 2011-10-28 22:43:35 <gmaxwell> (I think mtgox has a relationship with eligus to get free mining, but I've never bothered asking... luke has also mentioned that they are using their own software not bitcoind)
317 2011-10-28 22:43:45 <luke-jr> and has access to accept any transaction on Eligius
318 2011-10-28 22:43:53 <luke-jr> but this one doesn't seem to have gone through that way
319 2011-10-28 22:44:14 <gmaxwell> ah good, yea so thats why I thought it was mtgox. but weird.
320 2011-10-28 22:44:25 <gmaxwell> (they also have enough bitcoins that they could make mistakes like that)
321 2011-10-28 22:44:41 <gmaxwell> (I mean, I couldn't burn 2k coins because I don't have that many!)
322 2011-10-28 22:44:49 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 85aef987f136 r172 / (6 files in 4 dirs): - add user-agent to request meta-data for future logging to database
323 2011-10-28 22:44:54 <graingert> only 367 coins were burnt?
324 2011-10-28 22:44:57 <da2ce7> at least it wasn't in one of their 400K addresses....
325 2011-10-28 22:45:05 <gmaxwell> no.. about 2k in total it looks like
326 2011-10-28 22:45:24 <gmaxwell> Not the most expensive mistake someone could make.
327 2011-10-28 22:45:48 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * c963bb9bc0e3 r173 /: Starting 'work-maker-prep' branch
328 2011-10-28 22:46:02 <graingert> !bc, stats
329 2011-10-28 22:46:03 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
330 2011-10-28 22:46:09 <graingert> !bc,stats
331 2011-10-28 22:46:10 <da2ce7> block exploer needs to add a new type of transactions 'mtgox extra 0 bug'
332 2011-10-28 22:46:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 150965 | Current Difficulty: 1468195.4272208 | Next Difficulty At Block: 151199 | Next Difficulty In: 234 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1214981.24816011 | Estimated Percent Change: -17.2466263255
333 2011-10-28 22:46:13 <gmaxwell> Fortunately it looks like they were burning the output and not the change.
334 2011-10-28 22:46:32 <graingert> gmaxwell: :p
335 2011-10-28 22:46:52 <luke-jr> where's the most recent one?
336 2011-10-28 22:46:54 <gmaxwell> Because e.g. one of these had about 7200 BTC in change.
337 2011-10-28 22:47:38 <graingert> that's a lot of btc all in one place
338 2011-10-28 22:47:42 <graingert> how old are they
339 2011-10-28 22:47:55 <da2ce7> we could always make a specal template to spen these 'strange' coins.
340 2011-10-28 22:47:59 <da2ce7> I guess.
341 2011-10-28 22:48:06 <da2ce7> *spend
342 2011-10-28 22:48:13 <graingert> da2ce7: who would spend them?
343 2011-10-28 22:48:23 <da2ce7> there is no ambiguity in who should own them.
344 2011-10-28 22:48:29 <Eliel> when the foundation is setup, they could serve as funding :)
345 2011-10-28 22:48:30 <gmaxwell> I think it's pretty clearly mtgox just on the basis of the amount of coin involved.
346 2011-10-28 22:49:04 <da2ce7> graingert, the owner of the private keys to the hash.
347 2011-10-28 22:49:09 <graingert> yep
348 2011-10-28 22:50:34 <graingert> just what I was pondering
349 2011-10-28 22:51:26 <Eliel> could either make a safeguard to stop those transactions or just funnel them to bitcoin fund of some kind to fund development and stuff :P
350 2011-10-28 22:51:45 <graingert> Eliel: there is a safeguard
351 2011-10-28 22:51:58 <Eliel> ah right, nonstandard block
352 2011-10-28 22:54:05 <luke-jr> I was looking at the wrong debug.log
353 2011-10-28 22:54:14 <luke-jr> aa62bdd690de061a6fbb did indeed get whitelisted by MtGox
354 2011-10-28 22:54:18 <graingert> lol
355 2011-10-28 23:36:07 <genjix> surprisingly quiet ~_~
356 2011-10-28 23:41:17 <robblesz> Boo!
357 2011-10-28 23:41:46 <shadders> when you declare a char in C I assume it's 1 byte per char?  if so what charset?
358 2011-10-28 23:41:47 <shadders> unsigned char pchMergedMiningHeader[] = { 0xfa, 0xbe, 'm', 'm' } ;
359 2011-10-28 23:42:25 <shadders> trying to work out how to make the matching byte array in java...
360 2011-10-28 23:44:46 <Diablo-D3> shadders: "no"
361 2011-10-28 23:44:55 <Diablo-D3> char is defined as the basic unit of the machine
362 2011-10-28 23:45:18 <Diablo-D3> there are machines where 8 bits = 1 byte = machine unit is not true
363 2011-10-28 23:45:20 <Diablo-D3> and they are very very scary
364 2011-10-28 23:45:26 <gmaxwell> It's at least 8 bits, but it can be bigger.
365 2011-10-28 23:45:45 <gmaxwell> TMS320C55's char is 16 bits.
366 2011-10-28 23:45:51 <gmaxwell> (so is its int)
367 2011-10-28 23:45:56 <Diablo-D3> yeah, that thing is all shorts
368 2011-10-28 23:46:04 <gmaxwell> It's not that horrible to code for.
369 2011-10-28 23:46:41 <Diablo-D3> just dont expect code that relies on overflow characteristics to work right
370 2011-10-28 23:46:42 <gmaxwell> Well, it has a 32 bit long too.. and its 32x16>>n multiples are nice and fast.
371 2011-10-28 23:46:56 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: the long is? not the long long?
372 2011-10-28 23:47:35 <gmaxwell> I think so.. dunno always code for it using a wrapper header. :)
373 2011-10-28 23:47:54 <graingert> just use Python
374 2011-10-28 23:48:00 <graingert> and get on with your life
375 2011-10-28 23:48:10 <gmaxwell> I like writing software that actually runs in realtime.
376 2011-10-28 23:48:26 <genjix> lol
377 2011-10-28 23:48:28 <genjix> owned
378 2011-10-28 23:49:44 <Diablo-D3> see
379 2011-10-28 23:49:46 <Diablo-D3> the only bug in C
380 2011-10-28 23:49:46 <gmaxwell> (I mean I use python too... esp things where I would otherwise use sed|awk|sh .. but really, on numerical code I've had 2000x speed differences between my simple python code and what I write in C)
381 2011-10-28 23:49:48 <Diablo-D3> is the fact
382 2011-10-28 23:49:51 <Diablo-D3> it runs on EVERYTHING
383 2011-10-28 23:49:54 <Diablo-D3> including things it shouldnt
384 2011-10-28 23:50:03 <gmaxwell> Not to mention a TMS320C55 system doesn't even have enough memory to run any existing python interperter! :)
385 2011-10-28 23:50:30 <graingert> gmaxwell: realtime? what's that
386 2011-10-28 23:50:34 <gmaxwell> At least not usually, hell the thing is segmented with 16 mbyte maximum segments.. but a lot of times they only have a few hundred K of attached ram.
387 2011-10-28 23:50:52 <cjdelisle> while we're talking C, I haz a question
388 2011-10-28 23:50:53 <cjdelisle> static inline uint32_t AddrPrefix_get(const uint8_t address[20])
389 2011-10-28 23:50:54 <cjdelisle> { return ntohl(((uint32_t*) address)[0]);
390 2011-10-28 23:51:00 <graingert> just use Python
391 2011-10-28 23:51:04 <graingert> and get on with your life
392 2011-10-28 23:51:05 <cjdelisle> is it violating anti-aliasing rules?
393 2011-10-28 23:51:14 <shadders> I'm sure the answer to my question is buried in that gobbledegook somewhere :p
394 2011-10-28 23:51:31 <gmaxwell> Yes, anytime you type punt you probably are use a union.
395 2011-10-28 23:51:31 <graingert> I know what all the letters mean
396 2011-10-28 23:52:23 <gmaxwell> well. actually just to be clear, because one type is probably char there, then I guess it isn't. Use a union anyways.
397 2011-10-28 23:54:23 <cjdelisle> Is it possible to use a union without needing to do a memcpy because it looks like I would have to introduce yet another variable..
398 2011-10-28 23:54:52 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: Sure. A union is just a type with multiple faces.
399 2011-10-28 23:55:23 <genjix> graingert: i'm a huge python fan but that was pretty funny :D
400 2011-10-28 23:56:42 <Ycros> gmaxwell: pypy should help with your simple numerical code
401 2011-10-28 23:56:58 <graingert> genjix: python is fine, just don't mention GIL
402 2011-10-28 23:57:11 <genjix> yeah the GIL is pretty bad
403 2011-10-28 23:57:18 <graingert> great in final fantasy
404 2011-10-28 23:57:20 <gmaxwell> Ycros: sure, so long as you don't want to use x86_64.
405 2011-10-28 23:57:24 <genjix> but i think it might be fixed in py3
406 2011-10-28 23:57:27 <graingert> not so good in python
407 2011-10-28 23:57:33 <genjix> lol fukkin ff gil
408 2011-10-28 23:57:36 <genjix> i remember that
409 2011-10-28 23:57:38 <Ycros> gmaxwell: it works fine on 64
410 2011-10-28 23:57:40 <gmaxwell> oh I was reading psycho not pypy.
411 2011-10-28 23:57:42 <genjix> best FF = 7
412 2011-10-28 23:57:58 <gmaxwell> Ycros: yes, pypy should indeed by better.
413 2011-10-28 23:58:28 <gmaxwell> s/by/be/
414 2011-10-28 23:58:36 <Ycros> gmaxwell: heh, the psyco dev is a pypy dev now
415 2011-10-28 23:59:00 <Diablo-D3> [09:54:23] <cjdelisle> Is it possible to use a union without needing to do a memcpy because it looks like I would have to introduce yet another variable..
416 2011-10-28 23:59:11 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: yes you can memcpy it
417 2011-10-28 23:59:22 <Diablo-D3> make sure you memcpy the inside, not the union itself
418 2011-10-28 23:59:23 <Ycros> gmaxwell: imo pypy has now reached a level of maturity where it's stable enough to use for your projects
419 2011-10-28 23:59:29 <gmaxwell> Ycros: yep.
420 2011-10-28 23:59:33 <kiba`> http://www.bayesianinvestor.com/blog/index.php/2011/10/28/bitcoin/
421 2011-10-28 23:59:35 <kiba`> sounds reasonable
422 2011-10-28 23:59:38 <graingert> genjix: nope: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1222929/gil-in-python-3-1
423 2011-10-28 23:59:53 <cjdelisle> Diablo-D3: I know, I would like to avoid it if possible because that function gets called a lot
424 2011-10-28 23:59:55 <genjix> :/