1 2011-12-05 01:06:58 <ByteCoin> ;;seen gavinandresen
  2 2011-12-05 01:06:59 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 5 hours, 15 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> luke-jr: maybe another gavinsomething got it
  3 2011-12-05 01:09:51 <theymos> I don't see you on IRC very often, ByteCoin.
  4 2011-12-05 03:20:05 <ByteCoin> theymos: Yeah. Not ioften here! And not often paying attention to the feed. Sorry!
  5 2011-12-05 04:04:27 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr luke-jr/log_block_sender_and_time * r34f8355 / src/main.cpp : Whenever a block is received, log the sender's IP and the current time - http://git.io/L60FBQ https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/34f8355dd6a9c37011a805246384a7599fe56427
  6 2011-12-05 04:06:20 <gmaxwell> OT, but some people around here might enjoy laughing (crying?) at some of the examples: http://www.fefe.de/c++/c%2b%2b-talk.pdf "Most of the perceived benefits of C++, when viewed from a different vantage point, turn out to have or even be downsides"
  7 2011-12-05 04:35:11 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
  8 2011-12-05 04:42:15 <SomeoneWeird> hello :)
  9 2011-12-05 04:46:03 <SomeoneWeird> Anyone got any suggestions of a project (btc or non-btc) I could code, getting bored.
 10 2011-12-05 04:46:23 <luke-jr> SomeoneWeird: add TBC support to Bitcoin-Qt
 11 2011-12-05 04:47:17 <SomeoneWeird> tbc?
 12 2011-12-05 04:48:54 <luke-jr> Tonal
 13 2011-12-05 04:49:08 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_Bitcoin
 14 2011-12-05 04:51:34 <SomeoneWeird> heh
 15 2011-12-05 05:30:29 <terrytibbs> How can I take a snapshot of the blockchain without having to shut the client down?
 16 2011-12-05 06:39:46 <ThomasV> tcatm: bc is not up to date
 17 2011-12-05 06:40:38 <Diablo-D3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP7K9SycELA
 18 2011-12-05 07:13:10 <slush> tcatm: hi, telnet interface down?
 19 2011-12-05 07:13:49 <slush> I see last trade on mtgox at 4am UTC (using CSV download) and telnet is giving me "timed out" error
 20 2011-12-05 07:16:23 <luke-jr> could we get rid of the compression part of base58 without breaking compatibility?
 21 2011-12-05 07:16:40 <luke-jr> at least for ver 2 addresses?
 22 2011-12-05 07:16:55 <luke-jr> [12o..z] for the first octet is ugly
 23 2011-12-05 07:24:50 <forrestv> luke-jr, compression part.. you mean the leading-zero-bytes-get-changed-into-1's part?
 24 2011-12-05 09:21:39 <wboy1> Hey Guys,any crypto's that are interested to join an early stage bitcoin-related funded startup,drop me a message,thanks!
 25 2011-12-05 09:42:14 <UukGoblin> hrm, bitcoincharts.com refuses connection on 27007 :->
 26 2011-12-05 10:04:43 <tcatm> slush: fixed
 27 2011-12-05 10:39:19 <slush> thanks
 28 2011-12-05 11:52:03 <wereHamster> tcatm: do you run bitcoincharts/
 29 2011-12-05 11:52:04 <wereHamster> ?
 30 2011-12-05 11:52:26 <tcatm> wereHamster: yes
 31 2011-12-05 13:14:07 <wboy1> Hi Guys,any crypto's that are interested to join an early stage bitcoin related funded startup,drop me a message,thanks!
 32 2011-12-05 14:23:46 <pak> hello
 33 2011-12-05 14:53:07 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Matt Corallo master * r3f9144d / bitcoin-qt.pro : Move -lgdi32 after -lcrypto (fixes #681). - http://git.io/JaoabQ https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/3f9144d42c7a05a9acb3334c0fcea4585f8780f2
 34 2011-12-05 14:53:10 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rf66eabd / bitcoin-qt.pro : Merge pull request #682 from TheBlueMatt/gdicrypto ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/f66eabd281252b700dbe980fbd19138d864683da
 35 2011-12-05 14:53:18 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r8848a70 / src/qt/bitcoin.cpp : Merge pull request #679 from laanwj/cmdline_minimize ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/8848a70ba16765313438a289b8837732e81650f7
 36 2011-12-05 15:05:13 <[Tycho]> Hello.
 37 2011-12-05 15:11:22 <helo> tooltip when hovering over synched icon in bitcoin-qt: (verbatim) "Up to date Downloaded 156176 blocks of transaction history. Last received block was generated %n second ago."
 38 2011-12-05 15:12:44 <helo> oh, already known https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin-qt/issues/19
 39 2011-12-05 15:13:11 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Matt Corallo 0.5.x * r16e7c05de71a bitcoind-stable/bitcoin-qt.pro: Move -lgdi32 after -lcrypto (fixes #681). http://tinyurl.com/7wmzbd9
 40 2011-12-05 15:13:20 <helo> hmm, but closed because it couldn't be reproduced
 41 2011-12-05 15:17:52 <tcatm> helo: if you know how to reproduce the bug please report on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues (or maybe check whether it's known there, first)
 42 2011-12-05 15:19:22 <luke-jr> dooglus: ping
 43 2011-12-05 15:23:20 <helo> it seems to occur every time i start the bitcoin client on this machine, at least... i suspect that isn't sufficient to reproduce it generally
 44 2011-12-05 15:25:12 <tcatm> slush: can you check whether this bug still exists? it looks like it might related to WX and thus might be gone now https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/49
 45 2011-12-05 15:31:32 <slush> tcatm: im not on ubuntu machine now, will try later
 46 2011-12-05 16:14:28 <helo> luke-jr: if it isn't possible to generate a signmessage when sending a transaction, and it isn't possible to see the input addresses of particular sent transaction, how is signmessage in the GUI intended to be used?
 47 2011-12-05 16:15:01 <gmaxwell> helo: to show ownership of an address.
 48 2011-12-05 16:15:14 <gmaxwell> (not a transaction)
 49 2011-12-05 16:15:30 <luke-jr> helo: it is possible to see the inputs. just not with the client.
 50 2011-12-05 16:16:28 <helo> ah, so to show that you have access to an amount of bitcoin _before_ sending
 51 2011-12-05 16:16:47 <luke-jr> helo: or after
 52 2011-12-05 16:17:00 <luke-jr> the merchant can tell you which address you need to sign from
 53 2011-12-05 16:17:09 <luke-jr> I agree it's not ideal, and could use improvement
 54 2011-12-05 16:17:24 <luke-jr> I just wanted to get some minimal level of functionality working
 55 2011-12-05 16:17:33 <luke-jr> (which also happens to be the only level of functionality I personally care for)
 56 2011-12-05 16:19:08 <gmaxwell> 09:17 < luke-jr> the merchant can tell you which address you need to sign from
 57 2011-12-05 16:19:19 <gmaxwell> Well, they already need to tell you the message to sign, so thats not so bd.
 58 2011-12-05 16:19:26 <gmaxwell> s/bd/bad/
 59 2011-12-05 16:19:30 <luke-jr> yep
 60 2011-12-05 16:56:56 <BlueMatt> is control-f broken on many of github's pages for anyone else, because its really starting to piss me off
 61 2011-12-05 16:57:55 <tcatm> broken here, too
 62 2011-12-05 17:00:02 <gavinandresen> Anybody have opinion on whether the next testnet reset should be a change-the-genesis-block reset or not?  See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50223.msg627957#msg627957
 63 2011-12-05 17:00:41 <UukGoblin> has testnet got merged mining yet? ;-]
 64 2011-12-05 17:01:38 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: how about not checking difficulty on testnet, and just accepting blocks with any diff?
 65 2011-12-05 17:01:54 <luke-jr> then making the client compete with itself by default
 66 2011-12-05 17:01:59 <BlueMatt> hah, just stumbled upon github's dmca repo, and on the list is diablominer...
 67 2011-12-05 17:02:05 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: non-trivial
 68 2011-12-05 17:02:11 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: too easy to make a gigabytes-long testnet chain
 69 2011-12-05 17:02:26 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: Id say that suggestion would be nice
 70 2011-12-05 17:02:32 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's easy anyway.
 71 2011-12-05 17:02:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: to avoid that, you need to at least make it > 2 hrs difference
 72 2011-12-05 17:02:51 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: maybe not min diff though, maybe something scaling that decreases to min_diff
 73 2011-12-05 17:03:20 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: why bother?
 74 2011-12-05 17:03:24 <BlueMatt> but meh, its testnet doesnt matter much
 75 2011-12-05 17:03:27 <BlueMatt> heh
 76 2011-12-05 17:04:03 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I was thinking of a fixed-difficulty testnet, but way-too-many-blocks is almost as bad as way-too-few.
 77 2011-12-05 17:05:28 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: why not just require -testnet=SEED where SEED determines the recognized genesis block?
 78 2011-12-05 17:06:07 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: that's essentially what testnet-in-a-box is...
 79 2011-12-05 17:06:29 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: except TNIAB doesn't work if you need cross-internet stuff
 80 2011-12-05 17:06:38 <luke-jr> which is the only case this matters
 81 2011-12-05 17:07:01 <BlueMatt> if you are testing tniab on cross-internet stuff, you are doing something wrong
 82 2011-12-05 17:07:29 <luke-jr> basically, TNIAB can't be used for widescale testing
 83 2011-12-05 17:07:31 <luke-jr> just local
 84 2011-12-05 17:07:53 <gavinandresen> Right.  And -testnet=SEED would have the same problem if SEED was what 'everybody' was using from across-the-internet testing
 85 2011-12-05 17:07:57 <BlueMatt> but if you do -testnet=SEED then you get a ton of networks with everyone connecting to each other and downloading chains is a huge mess
 86 2011-12-05 17:08:25 <BlueMatt> (or you redo a ton of connection logic, and unless someone wants to volunteer, I dont think its gonna happen)
 87 2011-12-05 17:08:28 <gavinandresen> Yes, the wallet code wouldn't be very happy if you re-ran with different seeds.
 88 2011-12-05 17:08:49 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: so then you change SEED on nodes participating in YOUR test
 89 2011-12-05 17:08:55 <gavinandresen> ... which is an argument for doing a "If block time after Dec 15 2011 then testnet rules are THIS else THAT"
 90 2011-12-05 17:09:06 <cocktopus> wonder if you could hack the client to always force the diff to 1 when using testnet
 91 2011-12-05 17:09:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: anyhow, TNIAB works for most purposes, and I feel this conversation is already wasting way too much time worrying over it
 92 2011-12-05 17:10:08 <luke-jr> iff someone ever has an issue that TNIAB can't solve, they can just build their own custom testnet
 93 2011-12-05 17:10:14 <luke-jr> or submit a pullreq
 94 2011-12-05 17:10:17 <luke-jr> <.<
 95 2011-12-05 17:10:26 <BlueMatt> hence the simple if 20 min since last block -> min diff solution
 96 2011-12-05 17:10:46 <luke-jr> fine
 97 2011-12-05 17:10:50 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you can't verify that historically, so I can feed you bogus long changes of min diff solutions.
 98 2011-12-05 17:10:54 <gavinandresen> Umm, I've got a GetNextWorkRequired testnet change that I'm about to pullreq....
 99 2011-12-05 17:11:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: just saying, trying to discuss it in depth isn't worth the time; IMO you should just go ahead and change testnet however you want, so long as TNIAB keeps working
100 2011-12-05 17:11:44 <gavinandresen> So I think I'll just make it "New testnet rules go into effect 1/1/2012"
101 2011-12-05 17:11:52 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true...
102 2011-12-05 17:11:52 <gavinandresen> ... and there will be a blockchain split on that date.
103 2011-12-05 17:12:10 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I don't think we want to give testnet too many different vulnerabilities from the real network, becuase if people make trouble on testnet we at least want to learn from it.
104 2011-12-05 17:12:18 <gavinandresen> (testnet blockchain split, of course)
105 2011-12-05 17:12:47 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: any idea what causes the OP_EVAL regression yet? :P
106 2011-12-05 17:12:51 <gmaxwell> v.s. "oh look, testnet chain is 10gb ...{lots of work}... oh darn, this is a testnet specific vulnerability"
107 2011-12-05 17:13:02 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: FWIW, Eligius has been live mining OP_EVAL Stage1 since Sat
108 2011-12-05 17:13:18 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I fixed it this morning.  I was being an idiot with a change to IsChange().
109 2011-12-05 17:13:23 <luke-jr> >_<
110 2011-12-05 17:13:31 <luke-jr> ok, I'll try rebuilding 'next' then
111 2011-12-05 17:13:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: any of the 'next-test' bits I could promote to 'next'?
112 2011-12-05 17:14:01 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true, but considering it is currently fairly hard to actually test anything on testnet unless you have decent mining power, I would still say its better than nothing
113 2011-12-05 17:14:20 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: or maybe back to the original sliding diff which starts dropping as its been too long since last block
114 2011-12-05 17:14:27 <gavinandresen> yes, testnet is useless right now for most people.  There was exactly 1 testnet block generated yesterday.
115 2011-12-05 17:14:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: was the keepnode stuff in next-test? it seemed pretty uncontoversial, I tried it for a bit but didn't attempt to break it.
116 2011-12-05 17:15:06 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: or anything you want to merge to master, before I rebuild next? ;)
117 2011-12-05 17:15:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yes
118 2011-12-05 17:15:41 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ask wumpus-- there are a couple of ack'ed QT changes.
119 2011-12-05 17:15:46 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you should ACK stuff that you test :P
120 2011-12-05 17:16:18 <gmaxwell> Sorry, I intended to test more but this was on my public node that lost its disk.
121 2011-12-05 17:16:28 <luke-jr> wumpus isn't here right now
122 2011-12-05 17:16:41 <gmaxwell> (and after that I was kinda put off from working on anything that I just lost there. :-/)
123 2011-12-05 17:16:59 <luke-jr> non-Qt stuff in 'next' is just coinbaser and OP_EVAL it looks like
124 2011-12-05 17:41:01 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr luke-jr/next * r93ce367 / (12 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'signmessage_gui' into next ... https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/93ce3671e6d929c5074e71f47241bc953ef4c588
125 2011-12-05 17:41:22 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various next * r93ce36..5c3b3b bitcoind-personal/ (91 files in 16 dirs): (12 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7fsst7u
126 2011-12-05 17:42:22 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: could you ACK https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/677 for 0.6 plz? :P
127 2011-12-05 17:42:44 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: and/or comment on the bug it appears to accidentally fix?
128 2011-12-05 17:44:09 <gavinandresen> can't, busy right now, don't have time to think about fee policy stuff
129 2011-12-05 17:48:23 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: bug jgarzik, since IIRC he was the one that introduced the bug.
130 2011-12-05 17:49:00 <helo> is there any plan to add automation features to the bitcoin gui? for example, auto-transfer (a percentage of) incoming funds to address, or auto-deposit all funds to safe address when balance exceeds N, etc?
131 2011-12-05 17:49:28 <gmaxwell> helo: I've never even heard those features suggested.
132 2011-12-05 17:49:46 <gmaxwell> helo: It would be quite easy to automate those things externally via the RPC, however.
133 2011-12-05 17:49:56 <gmaxwell> (and even with that, I've never heard of anyone doing that)
134 2011-12-05 17:51:22 <_Fireball> Hi
135 2011-12-05 17:51:27 <helo> seems like it would be somewhat useful, but maybe outside the scope of the official bitcoin gui
136 2011-12-05 17:53:34 <helo> if someone received their salary in bitcoin, it would be pretty nice for it to automatically split it up among different wallets (daily use, bill payment, savings, tax reservoir)
137 2011-12-05 17:54:53 <helo> although you wouldn't be able to use it with encrypted wallets...
138 2011-12-05 17:55:02 <gmaxwell> helo: I can ask my employer to deposit in up to 10 accounts.
139 2011-12-05 17:55:13 <gmaxwell> So I'd assume people would offer the same for bitcoin.
140 2011-12-05 17:55:13 <helo> sign me up!
141 2011-12-05 17:55:27 <helo> probably so...
142 2011-12-05 18:40:03 <helo> if someone wanted to do micropayments via bitcoin in an android app...
143 2011-12-05 18:40:43 <BlueMatt> see existing app: Bitcoin Wallet
144 2011-12-05 18:44:04 <helo> the app would have a link to the developer's website to purchase a particular feature, which would store the player's account ID from a parameter along with the next unused deposit address for that feature
145 2011-12-05 18:44:29 <BlueMatt> dont bother trying...
146 2011-12-05 18:45:28 <helo> then the developer would monitor that address, and once payment is received, update that player's records to allow access to the feature
147 2011-12-05 18:45:35 <helo> why?
148 2011-12-05 18:46:23 <BlueMatt> because you should be doing it via google checkout - its easier, supported and you will get customers
149 2011-12-05 18:46:49 <BlueMatt> whereas bitcoin doesnt have the adoption for it to be reasonable...
150 2011-12-05 18:46:54 <helo> i'm just thinking about how it would work... not actually going to try to use it
151 2011-12-05 18:47:04 <BlueMatt> but yea, thats the way you would do it
152 2011-12-05 19:01:04 <helo> the web server could just issue an immediate redirect to a bitcoin: URI containing the amount and address after recording the player's account... that would be pretty nice
153 2011-12-05 19:01:51 <BlueMatt> you could, but of all android phones, 0.01% have a bitcoin: handler installed
154 2011-12-05 19:02:04 <BlueMatt> the rest get a loverly error message
155 2011-12-05 19:02:29 <BlueMatt> (though iirc its one of the minor ones at the bottom of the screen)
156 2011-12-05 19:02:56 <helo> this is in the imaginary world where bitcoin is popular, of course :)
157 2011-12-05 19:03:04 <BlueMatt> that said, having a nice bitcoin: link would be nice...
158 2011-12-05 19:03:26 <BlueMatt> if you know they have a bitcoin: handler, just forwarding would be appropriate imho
159 2011-12-05 19:03:53 <BlueMatt> (since most apps currently just forward you right to pay now as quickly as possible)
160 2011-12-05 19:08:29 <[Tycho]> Hmm, may be selling shares will be a better option than taking pre-orders...
161 2011-12-05 19:08:45 <BlueMatt> for?
162 2011-12-05 19:08:57 <[Tycho]> For hardware bitcoin miner.
163 2011-12-05 19:09:06 <BlueMatt> mmm
164 2011-12-05 19:09:19 <[Tycho]> I'm thinking about selling some.
165 2011-12-05 19:09:24 <BlueMatt> nice
166 2011-12-05 19:12:35 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: You may have some stiff competition.
167 2011-12-05 19:12:49 <[Tycho]> Where from ?
168 2011-12-05 19:13:57 <gmaxwell> From anyone else buying the same hardware as you. (perhaps me!) And, frankly, I'd operate at a loss to keep you under 50% hash power (an issue you seem to selfishly have zero regard for)
169 2011-12-05 19:14:29 <[Tycho]> No, I'm not going to buy it.
170 2011-12-05 19:16:07 <[Tycho]> There is already enough competition within FPGA-based miners market.
171 2011-12-05 19:18:37 <gmaxwell> Oh, fpga based.. okay thats boring. :)
172 2011-12-05 19:19:25 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: well, then you can be my customer. You may buy my product and mine somewhere else to keep yourself calm about that 50% thing :)
173 2011-12-05 19:19:58 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: yes, that's why I'm not going to use FPGA.
174 2011-12-05 19:23:40 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: Sounds great
175 2011-12-05 19:26:41 <cocktopus> [Tycho]: are you rich
176 2011-12-05 19:26:55 <cocktopus> ASIC sounds expensive ;)
177 2011-12-05 19:27:02 <[Tycho]> Not really.
178 2011-12-05 19:27:17 <[Tycho]> Cheaper than your average Ferrary.
179 2011-12-05 19:27:59 <cocktopus> you have a point, (assuming you aren't talking about a full wafer)
180 2011-12-05 19:30:01 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: last night I was suggesting to luke that we should try to talk pools into using a fee rule that looks like fee = max(base_fee, 1/(1+e^((blocks_solved_in_last_2016/2016.)*-30+12)) )
181 2011-12-05 19:30:29 <gmaxwell> (or some other function that jacked the fee rapidly after your cross some point)
182 2011-12-05 19:30:41 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: "we should try to talk pools into using" doesnt provide any incentives for them to do so
183 2011-12-05 19:31:37 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you were?
184 2011-12-05 19:31:43 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: look in your logs!
185 2011-12-05 19:31:47 <gmaxwell> (in #eligius)
186 2011-12-05 19:31:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't understand it now, ever!
187 2011-12-05 19:31:58 <luke-jr> even*
188 2011-12-05 19:32:41 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: open gnuplot and type set xrange [0:1] ; plot 1/(1+2.71**(x*-30+12))
189 2011-12-05 19:32:54 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't have gnuplot
190 2011-12-05 19:34:02 <gmaxwell> feh. http://people.xiph.org/~greg/sigmoid.png
191 2011-12-05 19:37:32 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: every time I look at you I see involvement in yet another organization
192 2011-12-05 19:38:10 <c_k> gmaxwell: what exactly is the axis labels
193 2011-12-05 19:38:14 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: what? xiph? I've been involved with that for >10 years. Its where most of my non-work time goes.
194 2011-12-05 19:38:30 <gmaxwell> c_k: Fine! I'll fix
195 2011-12-05 19:38:32 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well I havent bothered to do any in-depth googling, but yea