1 2011-12-10 00:22:09 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rf63ad9409dd1 / (34 files in 8 dirs): Rename: storage -> blockchain http://tinyurl.com/cxr49p3
  2 2011-12-10 01:36:37 <Nixload> where I report channel abuse?
  3 2011-12-10 01:36:48 <Nixload> one of your underlings is abusing their power
  4 2011-12-10 01:36:55 <Nixload> and it's not appreciated
  5 2011-12-10 01:37:00 <luke-jr> let me guess, diablo-d3?
  6 2011-12-10 01:38:10 <copumpkin> ?
  7 2011-12-10 01:46:10 <BlueMatt> Nixload: ?
  8 2011-12-10 01:46:17 <gmaxwell> He's upset with me because I punted him in #bitcoin
  9 2011-12-10 01:46:45 <BlueMatt> wat he do?
 10 2011-12-10 01:47:35 <gmaxwell> Nothing paritcularly deserving.
 11 2011-12-10 01:47:57 <BlueMatt> well that seems mean
 12 2011-12-10 01:48:13 <gmaxwell> But he's ranting and threating me in privmsg now ::shrugs:: So it sort of seemed like a good move in hindsight ('the witch! it floats! burn it') :(
 13 2011-12-10 01:50:45 <SomeoneWeird> LOL gmaxwell
 14 2011-12-10 01:52:09 <cjdelisle> one of your underlings <-- heh
 15 2011-12-10 01:55:22 <luke-jr> lol
 16 2011-12-10 01:55:24 <Nixload> yeah way to justify gmaxwell
 17 2011-12-10 01:55:33 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so you just banned him for nothing?
 18 2011-12-10 01:56:55 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Obviously not. But nor was it anything serious. I would have just undone it shortly after but he was throwing insults and threats before I had a chance ::shrugs::
 19 2011-12-10 01:57:06 <luke-jr> >_<
 20 2011-12-10 01:57:20 <luke-jr> on another note, Bitcoin-Qt runs fine on ARM (Nokia N900)
 21 2011-12-10 01:57:37 <Nixload> was kick+ban over me disagreeing with him
 22 2011-12-10 01:57:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the gui as well?
 23 2011-12-10 01:57:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes
 24 2011-12-10 01:58:06 <BlueMatt> nice
 25 2011-12-10 01:58:11 <luke-jr> note that I run Gentoo on it though
 26 2011-12-10 01:58:14 <doublec> the non-gui has run on it for a long time
 27 2011-12-10 01:58:33 <Nixload> i don't care, is whatever, just unfortunate when someone with access abuses their power, I feel it brings the channel down
 28 2011-12-10 01:58:46 <gmaxwell> Nixload: It didn't really have anything to do with a disagreement. ::shrugs:: luke-jr can attest that I disagree with people all the time.
 29 2011-12-10 01:59:02 <Nixload> considering I was in the channel like 2 minutes
 30 2011-12-10 01:59:07 <gmaxwell> I've tried to explain this to you in private. But we're apparently failing to communicate.
 31 2011-12-10 01:59:13 <Nixload> and all of that was having a discussion with you, i'd say it was
 32 2011-12-10 01:59:21 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, I thought somehow the nokia os ran the gui...I was very surprised
 33 2011-12-10 01:59:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I don't know why it wouldn't.
 34 2011-12-10 01:59:39 <SomeoneWeird> Nixload, if gmaxwell unbans you will you drop it?
 35 2011-12-10 01:59:46 <SomeoneWeird> we dont need fighing in the -dev channel
 36 2011-12-10 01:59:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: but Nokia abandoned Maemo a long time ago
 37 2011-12-10 01:59:48 <Nixload> just remove the ban and consider my advice about warnings in pm
 38 2011-12-10 01:59:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: because the ui is designed for desktops?
 39 2011-12-10 02:00:01 <luke-jr> I vote to keep Nixload banned.
 40 2011-12-10 02:00:01 <Nixload> and quiets, kb is completely unecessary
 41 2011-12-10 02:00:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: so?
 42 2011-12-10 02:00:13 <Nixload> whys that luke
 43 2011-12-10 02:00:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: some reason it wouldn't work on laptops?
 44 2011-12-10 02:00:24 <luke-jr> Nixload: because you're making demands.
 45 2011-12-10 02:00:25 <BlueMatt> I vote that Nixload and gmaxwell deal with their personal problems in pm
 46 2011-12-10 02:00:35 <Nixload> luke so what, i'm not at his mercy
 47 2011-12-10 02:00:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: on a phone its a bit different
 48 2011-12-10 02:00:41 <Nixload> he does not have channel access to abuse it
 49 2011-12-10 02:00:47 <Nixload> period
 50 2011-12-10 02:00:53 <gmaxwell> omg .. this is offtopic. please.
 51 2011-12-10 02:00:55 <gmaxwell> jesus.
 52 2011-12-10 02:01:26 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: have you tried on an n900 ?
 53 2011-12-10 02:01:27 <gmaxwell> Nixload: you're already unbanned there, stop spreading the dramaz like a forest fire.
 54 2011-12-10 02:01:42 <[Tycho]> I have n900 somewhere in Russia...
 55 2011-12-10 02:01:57 <Nixload> ty
 56 2011-12-10 02:03:21 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: they can fend with their own trolls for a while
 57 2011-12-10 02:03:57 <doublec> mozilla have quite a few n900's they're trying to work out what to do with them now that they don't need them
 58 2011-12-10 02:03:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: N900 isn't a phone.
 59 2011-12-10 02:04:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ...?
 60 2011-12-10 02:04:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: N900 is a phone-sized laptop.
 61 2011-12-10 02:04:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it runs X11 like any other Linux laptop
 62 2011-12-10 02:04:25 <BlueMatt> uh...ok
 63 2011-12-10 02:04:42 <luke-jr> doublec: I wouldn't mind a spare. :P
 64 2011-12-10 02:04:49 <doublec> luke-jr: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701784
 65 2011-12-10 02:04:52 <lianj> n900 is the most useful linux phone to date
 66 2011-12-10 02:04:53 <doublec> luke-jr: ask in there
 67 2011-12-10 02:04:54 <rjk2> luke-jr: what is your opinion on some of that small OQO hardware?
 68 2011-12-10 02:05:03 <luke-jr> lianj: except that it's not a phone :P
 69 2011-12-10 02:05:04 <[Tycho]> It's not a laptop, it's handheld.
 70 2011-12-10 02:05:09 <jrmithdobbs> n900 is kind of dumb
 71 2011-12-10 02:05:10 <luke-jr> rjk2: x86 eats power.
 72 2011-12-10 02:05:14 <rjk2> yeah..
 73 2011-12-10 02:05:26 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: yes, but most people aren't familiar with handheld, and laptop is a closer match
 74 2011-12-10 02:05:29 <lianj> luke-jr: you can make calls with it and it fits my hand :D
 75 2011-12-10 02:05:50 <jrmithdobbs> i can do that with my remote
 76 2011-12-10 02:05:51 <BlueMatt> for the record, I ran an X11 server on my iphone...
 77 2011-12-10 02:05:51 <[Tycho]> Usually I keep n770 with me for navigation purposes. n900 is totally useless outside.
 78 2011-12-10 02:05:53 <jrmithdobbs> it's still a remote
 79 2011-12-10 02:06:17 <BlueMatt> so is my iphone a laptop now?
 80 2011-12-10 02:06:24 <jrmithdobbs> apparently
 81 2011-12-10 02:06:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: your iPhone didn't run X11 out of the box :P
 82 2011-12-10 02:06:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and it was designed the be a phone
 83 2011-12-10 02:06:38 <luke-jr> and runs a phone OS
 84 2011-12-10 02:06:48 <lianj> and in x11 mode the iphone prolly couldnt make calls
 85 2011-12-10 02:06:50 <BlueMatt> so thats your definition of a laptop vs phone, runs x11 out of the box?
 86 2011-12-10 02:06:50 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: whatever the n900 is it's definitely a great example of failure
 87 2011-12-10 02:06:52 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
 88 2011-12-10 02:06:53 <doublec> i like that the n900 has a physical keyboard vs the iphone
 89 2011-12-10 02:07:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, just pointing out big differences
 90 2011-12-10 02:07:02 <[Tycho]> Oh, you are running wrong OS on it. That's sad.
 91 2011-12-10 02:07:03 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: heh
 92 2011-12-10 02:07:08 <luke-jr> people who buy N900 wanting a phone are almost always disappointed.
 93 2011-12-10 02:07:40 <lianj> jrmithdobbs: sure it was a failure. but its still the somewhat most useful linux phone which you dont have to hack hardcore to get your x11
 94 2011-12-10 02:08:03 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: I'm disappointed in n900 for just ONE reason: battery life. It doesn't have it.
 95 2011-12-10 02:08:05 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: yes but why does "useful" need to be modified with "linux" in that sentence in the first place
 96 2011-12-10 02:08:06 <lianj> n900 runs the full chromium :)
 97 2011-12-10 02:08:13 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: because it's far from the most useful phone.
 98 2011-12-10 02:08:42 <jrmithdobbs> the whole concept is just weird
 99 2011-12-10 02:08:52 <[Tycho]> While n770 can live 7 days in standby with one charge.
100 2011-12-10 02:09:21 <[Tycho]> Who would need a phone/handheld that barely lives one day on a charge ?
101 2011-12-10 02:09:22 <lianj> it runs a debian without modifing. linux userland. not just the kernel like android crap
102 2011-12-10 02:09:38 <rjk2> yes nokia in general usually gets battery life right
103 2011-12-10 02:09:43 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: meh, any phone i have only lives one day :(
104 2011-12-10 02:09:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: my N900 has pretty good battery life.
105 2011-12-10 02:09:51 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: working in an underground facility sucks
106 2011-12-10 02:10:05 <rjk2> jrmithdobbs: yeah that will kill it
107 2011-12-10 02:10:06 <[Tycho]> I can imagine people running bitcoin client on a n900 with stock OS, but not on gentoo.
108 2011-12-10 02:10:15 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: you work underground?
109 2011-12-10 02:10:16 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: how much of it ?
110 2011-12-10 02:10:31 <jrmithdobbs> rjk2: ya, we're trying to get them to get some cdma repeaters. we have att extenders that go out our upstream ;p
111 2011-12-10 02:10:40 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: ?
112 2011-12-10 02:10:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: KDE
113 2011-12-10 02:11:04 <[Tycho]> And my favorite Windows Mobile 5 phone works two weeks with cellular part disabled.
114 2011-12-10 02:11:13 <SomeoneWeird> wow
115 2011-12-10 02:11:15 <luke-jr> N900 works a month offline.
116 2011-12-10 02:11:24 <BlueMatt> most phones will run forever in airplane mode
117 2011-12-10 02:11:24 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: ya, it's not anything exciting. I went back to a smallish local company because large organizations were driving me crazy
118 2011-12-10 02:11:27 <luke-jr> but srsly, that's pointless
119 2011-12-10 02:11:28 <BlueMatt> even my galaxy s ii will
120 2011-12-10 02:11:28 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: NO WAY.
121 2011-12-10 02:11:35 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: ?
122 2011-12-10 02:11:35 <rjk2> a whole month
123 2011-12-10 02:11:37 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: we just lease the bottom level of the building ;p
124 2011-12-10 02:11:37 <rjk2> ?
125 2011-12-10 02:11:42 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it uses practically no power&
126 2011-12-10 02:11:51 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: heh
127 2011-12-10 02:12:06 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it's not really a basement, the building's on the side of a hill type thing (so our datacenter space is up against it)
128 2011-12-10 02:12:15 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: ah
129 2011-12-10 02:12:26 <[Tycho]> I use this WM5 communicator as PDA, for mobile excel and scheduling tasks.
130 2011-12-10 02:12:27 <jrmithdobbs> but as far as cell phone signal is concerned it might as well be
131 2011-12-10 02:12:37 <BlueMatt> heh
132 2011-12-10 02:12:43 <rjk2> any good datacenter is well shielded anyway
133 2011-12-10 02:12:49 <BlueMatt> yep
134 2011-12-10 02:12:58 <jrmithdobbs> ya well, i can't get signal in our offices either
135 2011-12-10 02:13:04 <jrmithdobbs> i don't mind not having signal in the actual dc ;p
136 2011-12-10 02:13:09 <rjk2> yeah
137 2011-12-10 02:13:15 <rjk2> Wilson makes god stuff
138 2011-12-10 02:13:18 <[Tycho]> Hmm, looks like normally I walk with 4 phones with me :)))
139 2011-12-10 02:13:20 <rjk2> good*
140 2011-12-10 02:14:03 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: why
141 2011-12-10 02:14:12 <jrmithdobbs> just buy one good one
142 2011-12-10 02:14:40 <rjk2> one for cdma, one for gsm, one for wi-fi, and one for wi-max? :P
143 2011-12-10 02:14:41 <gmaxwell> One for KGB, one for the broker, one for the spouse, one for ???
144 2011-12-10 02:14:47 <rjk2> hahah
145 2011-12-10 02:14:56 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: WM5 for PDA and 3G tasks, n770 for navigation, Sony-Ericsson for calling and a satellite phone.
146 2011-12-10 02:15:16 <BlueMatt> you walk around with a satphone?
147 2011-12-10 02:15:29 <rjk2> they are smaller these days i guess
148 2011-12-10 02:15:45 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: only in strange places and suspicious times.
149 2011-12-10 02:16:03 <[Tycho]> A couple of months ago I got an LG WM7 phone, it has the best user interface ever.
150 2011-12-10 02:16:13 <gmaxwell> yea. I had one at work that looked like a startac with cancer.
151 2011-12-10 02:16:17 <jrmithdobbs> why do you need so many phones
152 2011-12-10 02:16:24 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: why do you need a satphone?
153 2011-12-10 02:16:26 <[Tycho]> But not really suits me because there is no way to get under the hood
154 2011-12-10 02:16:52 <jrmithdobbs> under the hood of what
155 2011-12-10 02:17:12 <lianj> maybe they transform into a notebook for working :)
156 2011-12-10 02:17:15 <jrmithdobbs> their sdk and such is available ... ?
157 2011-12-10 02:17:36 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: some places don't have GSM coverage and sometimes GSM can be suppresed/switched off my government or by natural disaster.
158 2011-12-10 02:17:50 <[Tycho]> *by
159 2011-12-10 02:18:01 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: how many times in your life have you needed that satphone?
160 2011-12-10 02:18:22 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: I just answered a couple of minutes ago.
161 2011-12-10 02:18:35 <jrmithdobbs> your answer doesn't make sense
162 2011-12-10 02:18:54 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: I think about ~7-10 times. Not counting satellite modem usage.
163 2011-12-10 02:18:59 <jrmithdobbs> why do you need 3 different devices to do that
164 2011-12-10 02:18:59 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: why ?
165 2011-12-10 02:19:13 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: because there is no single device that can do all of that.
166 2011-12-10 02:19:14 <jrmithdobbs> i do all of the above on one
167 2011-12-10 02:19:19 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: what kind of speed do you get on the sat modem?
168 2011-12-10 02:19:21 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: what kind of satphone do you have?
169 2011-12-10 02:19:51 <[Tycho]> Also I just hate that they don't make devices with transflective displays anymore :(
170 2011-12-10 02:20:24 <jrmithdobbs> would you also like for us to get off your lawn, sir?
171 2011-12-10 02:20:33 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
172 2011-12-10 02:20:37 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: I don't download anything, so can't say for sure. Used only for SSH and couple of webpages.
173 2011-12-10 02:21:42 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: last time I used satphone for calling and SMS ~1 one month ago in Singapore because I didn't had local GSM SIM card.
174 2011-12-10 02:22:06 <BlueMatt> mmm, well I guess for traveling it would be nice
175 2011-12-10 02:22:35 <[Tycho]> But it's good to have even if not needed before. Because when disaster hits it will be too late to buy :)
176 2011-12-10 02:23:09 <rjk2> are there any standardized mini-pci cards that do sattelite?
177 2011-12-10 02:23:14 <[Tycho]> In Hong Kong city it was very hard to get a signal because of all those skyscrapers.
178 2011-12-10 02:23:30 <[Tycho]> rjk2: no, but there are small OEM boards.
179 2011-12-10 02:23:41 <rjk2> what interface
180 2011-12-10 02:23:43 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: depends on the disaster.
181 2011-12-10 02:23:54 <[Tycho]> rjk2: RS-232, I suppose. May be USB.
182 2011-12-10 02:23:59 <[Tycho]> I don't like USB.
183 2011-12-10 02:24:06 <rjk2> usb is annoying
184 2011-12-10 02:24:09 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: I don't have any lawn.
185 2011-12-10 02:24:16 <rjk2> heh
186 2011-12-10 02:24:19 <jrmithdobbs> i was calling you old
187 2011-12-10 02:24:24 <jrmithdobbs> and grumpy
188 2011-12-10 02:24:59 <luke-jr> FWIW, I'll be developing for my BitForce tonight or tomorrow
189 2011-12-10 02:25:05 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: I tried both Android and the latest WIndows Phone. Turned out to be not suitable.
190 2011-12-10 02:25:19 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: webOS?
191 2011-12-10 02:25:23 <[Tycho]> No.
192 2011-12-10 02:25:26 <luke-jr> HP just announced they're opening it
193 2011-12-10 02:25:36 <luke-jr> AND continuign to develop it
194 2011-12-10 02:25:36 <rjk2> orly
195 2011-12-10 02:25:41 <rjk2> link?
196 2011-12-10 02:25:49 <[Tycho]> You won't agree with me, but Android looked most useless for me :)
197 2011-12-10 02:25:56 <luke-jr> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html?
198 2011-12-10 02:26:05 <luke-jr> no, I agree Android sucks
199 2011-12-10 02:26:29 <[Tycho]> The best user interface for plain people is Metro (Windows Phone). It's real BREAKTHROUGH.
200 2011-12-10 02:26:41 <[Tycho]> (Well, except some stupid flaws)
201 2011-12-10 02:26:47 <jrmithdobbs> lol
202 2011-12-10 02:26:49 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: what about it?
203 2011-12-10 02:26:52 <[Tycho]> And the windows phone itself.
204 2011-12-10 02:26:56 <rjk2> ...liek that its windows?
205 2011-12-10 02:26:58 <luke-jr> yay for interfaces being uncopyrightable.
206 2011-12-10 02:26:59 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: what ?
207 2011-12-10 02:27:00 <jrmithdobbs> "hi we bought this for the revolution and failed here do something with it thanks"
208 2011-12-10 02:27:10 <jrmithdobbs> hp needs to finish imploding already
209 2011-12-10 02:27:28 <gmaxwell> rjk2: for data you'd usually use a small (fits in a briefcase but barely) geosync terminal.
210 2011-12-10 02:27:42 <gmaxwell> rjk2: the LEO stuff used for phones has outragiously expensive data rates.
211 2011-12-10 02:28:09 <[Tycho]> I just remember Microsoft's future vision from 2009 and this Windows Phone interface clearly fits it.
212 2011-12-10 02:28:18 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no, HP is continuing to develop it.
213 2011-12-10 02:28:26 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: some patterns fail to repeat.
214 2011-12-10 02:28:29 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: and webOS is at least better than Android.
215 2011-12-10 02:28:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: so what's so good about the UI?
216 2011-12-10 02:28:53 <jrmithdobbs> nothing
217 2011-12-10 02:29:07 <[Tycho]> rjk2: I used RBGAN as sat data terminal. It's much smaller than briefcase.
218 2011-12-10 02:29:26 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: I think that telling about interface is nowhere close to trying it.
219 2011-12-10 02:29:42 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: better than nothing; I sure as heck won't touch a WP
220 2011-12-10 02:30:00 <[Tycho]> So I mostly bought it to play because it was almost fist time to see it in reality.
221 2011-12-10 02:30:33 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: I would recommend at least touching it at the store.
222 2011-12-10 02:30:41 <[Tycho]> It's WORTH trying.
223 2011-12-10 02:30:53 <luke-jr> what store?
224 2011-12-10 02:31:01 <BlueMatt> best buy?
225 2011-12-10 02:31:02 <jrmithdobbs> you think wm5 is usuable though ..
226 2011-12-10 02:31:04 <[Tycho]> I'll repeat - it's the best "plain people" interface that I ever saw.
227 2011-12-10 02:31:11 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: yea, I used a BGAN terminal before .. it had integrated wifi.. which was interesting.
228 2011-12-10 02:31:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: haven't seen one here
229 2011-12-10 02:31:27 <gmaxwell> So you could toss it out on a balcony and not fuss with cables.
230 2011-12-10 02:31:48 <luke-jr> I guess there's one down in Wesley Chapel :/
231 2011-12-10 02:31:55 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: why not ? I use spb_diary thing that replaces today screen, MSH keyboard and excel for data. Perfectly usable.
232 2011-12-10 02:32:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: a best buy?
233 2011-12-10 02:32:15 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: any store/shop that let's people touch phones.
234 2011-12-10 02:32:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes
235 2011-12-10 02:32:24 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: haven't seen any.
236 2011-12-10 02:32:57 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: try other countries.
237 2011-12-10 02:33:35 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I won't touch other countries.
238 2011-12-10 02:33:48 <[Tycho]> Other countries are cool.
239 2011-12-10 02:33:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I thought you were in the us, how have you never seen a best buy?
240 2011-12-10 02:33:54 <[Tycho]> Well, warm in this case.
241 2011-12-10 02:34:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not around here.
242 2011-12-10 02:34:10 <BlueMatt> wtf?
243 2011-12-10 02:34:11 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: says bluetooth not wifi. nifty device
244 2011-12-10 02:34:17 <BlueMatt> they're everywhere around here
245 2011-12-10 02:34:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bestbuystoremap.png
246 2011-12-10 02:34:43 <[Tycho]> I never saw a "Best Buy" too.
247 2011-12-10 02:34:52 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: mmm
248 2011-12-10 02:34:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you live in a third world country tho
249 2011-12-10 02:35:01 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: I'm pretty sure the one I used had wifi,  there are several different makers of BGAN terminals.
250 2011-12-10 02:35:02 <BlueMatt> well look at you and your fancy store maps
251 2011-12-10 02:35:13 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ah
252 2011-12-10 02:35:46 <[Tycho]> Surprisingly, in 3rd world country I get much better service for same bucks :)
253 2011-12-10 02:36:07 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: not so surprising
254 2011-12-10 02:36:54 <[Tycho]> Have to wait here because there is winter in my country.
255 2011-12-10 02:37:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: oh nifty, they make some that can auto track and be installed on cars
256 2011-12-10 02:37:06 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: friend of mine was selling the state department these go-kit boxes which were basically asterisk + webcache + sat terminal + ap + ton of wifi cordless phones in a box. Pull the terminal out, stick it outside. bam. phone service for 10 people plus internet.
257 2011-12-10 02:37:38 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: looks like a little round pizza delivery sign thing, ha
258 2011-12-10 02:38:07 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: they don't tend to work really well in city enviroments, too much multipath.
259 2011-12-10 02:38:38 <jrmithdobbs> probably don't even want to see data rates anyways
260 2011-12-10 02:38:39 <jrmithdobbs> ha
261 2011-12-10 02:38:42 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: that was the problem in HK. Well, not multipath, but the lack of clear sky view :)
262 2011-12-10 02:39:01 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it's pricy but not completely insane.
263 2011-12-10 02:39:14 <[Tycho]> With RBGAN in some places I had to care about nearby mountains too.
264 2011-12-10 02:39:24 <gmaxwell> Some of the higher speed services get pretty costly.
265 2011-12-10 02:39:55 <jrmithdobbs> oh wow, unlimited voice through globalstar is just $20
266 2011-12-10 02:40:08 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: there is a reason for that.
267 2011-12-10 02:40:52 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: do you hate Microsoft ?
268 2011-12-10 02:41:00 <cjdelisle> that's a nice number, with a number like that who needs GSM
269 2011-12-10 02:41:23 <[Tycho]> cjdelisle: may be those who want to call from buildings :)
270 2011-12-10 02:41:35 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: yes.
271 2011-12-10 02:41:54 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I hate Deepbit too. ;)
272 2011-12-10 02:42:17 <[Tycho]> Deepbit is the opposite of evil.
273 2011-12-10 02:42:36 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: take a look at Microsoft's future vision 2009
274 2011-12-10 02:43:00 <luke-jr> never heard of it
275 2011-12-10 02:43:11 <[Tycho]> It's on youtube.
276 2011-12-10 02:43:24 <[Tycho]> They show out future.
277 2011-12-10 02:43:29 <[Tycho]> *our
278 2011-12-10 02:43:53 <[Tycho]> Also I don't like capacitive touchscreens.
279 2011-12-10 02:44:22 <cjdelisle> I hope it doesn't involve everybody encrypting data to send it across the pci bus.
280 2011-12-10 02:44:51 <cjdelisle> because otherwise someone might back up a dvd legally...
281 2011-12-10 02:45:09 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: what don't you like about capacitive touchscreens? functional tracking?
282 2011-12-10 02:45:11 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I hate capacitive, but good luck finding something else
283 2011-12-10 02:45:46 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: poor accuracy, requires large expensive stylus
284 2011-12-10 02:45:58 <jrmithdobbs> sty...what
285 2011-12-10 02:46:22 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: 1) They don't allow me to use nails for pointing to small controls, 2) ENORMOUS buttons that cause low information density, 3) doesn't works with gloves.
286 2011-12-10 02:46:54 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: 1) so 2) you're doing it wrong 3) there are cheap gloves that fix this
287 2011-12-10 02:46:59 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no u
288 2011-12-10 02:46:59 <[Tycho]> cjdelisle: it's a good kind of future.
289 2011-12-10 02:47:23 <jrmithdobbs> also stop living places that require owning gloves
290 2011-12-10 02:47:30 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: it's not me doing it wrong. It's interface designers.
291 2011-12-10 02:47:56 <jrmithdobbs> also cut your nails you dirty hippy
292 2011-12-10 02:47:57 <[Tycho]> I don't like cheap gloves. Also I like living in different places.
293 2011-12-10 02:48:04 <cjdelisle> The only thing I like about microsoft is they are not peddling tethered "devices" which you don't really own.
294 2011-12-10 02:48:08 <[Tycho]> And don't tell me what to do :)
295 2011-12-10 02:48:15 <jrmithdobbs> heh
296 2011-12-10 02:48:28 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: Make me a sandwich.
297 2011-12-10 02:48:39 <[Tycho]> Gloves are used not only for warmth, but for protection too.
298 2011-12-10 02:48:42 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: xkcd.
299 2011-12-10 02:49:01 <gmaxwell> sudo make sandwich
300 2011-12-10 02:49:02 <jrmithdobbs> stop doing manual labor
301 2011-12-10 02:49:14 <[Tycho]> It's not labor, it's travel.
302 2011-12-10 02:49:29 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: helps avoid powder burns
303 2011-12-10 02:49:44 <[Tycho]> Sure.
304 2011-12-10 02:50:28 <[Tycho]> "luke-jr: [Tycho]: I hate capacitive, but good luck finding something else" - I did. It's n900 :)
305 2011-12-10 02:50:43 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: N900 is basically obsolete now.
306 2011-12-10 02:50:44 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: hahahda
307 2011-12-10 02:51:02 <[Tycho]> Capacitive screens also force GUI developers to make onscreen keyboards not supporting gestures :(
308 2011-12-10 02:52:30 <luke-jr> OSK suck
309 2011-12-10 02:52:39 <[Tycho]> I like using gestures when typing on onscreen keyboards.
310 2011-12-10 02:53:04 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: huh? there are lots of gestures used on capacitive devices
311 2011-12-10 02:53:09 <jrmithdobbs> are you on crack?
312 2011-12-10 02:53:26 <luke-jr> I think I found an interesting bug in bitcoind.
313 2011-12-10 02:53:34 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: are you a developer ?
314 2011-12-10 02:53:50 <jrmithdobbs> physical keyboards are dead
315 2011-12-10 02:54:11 <jrmithdobbs> it's like watching two guys talk about betamax in ~2001
316 2011-12-10 02:54:16 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: no basic gestures are supported at least by default in iPhone and WindowsPhone. I think same is with Android.
317 2011-12-10 02:54:30 <SomeoneWeird> iphone has gestures?
318 2011-12-10 02:54:53 <luke-jr> not sure this bug is in master anymore tho
319 2011-12-10 02:55:03 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: google swype for *exactly* what you're talking about, but saying that iphone nor android include gestures is just dumb even if they're not used for the keyboard
320 2011-12-10 02:55:03 <luke-jr> it seems the ScanHash_CryptoPP function is not thread-safe
321 2011-12-10 02:55:06 <[Tycho]> "physical keyboards are dead" ? Oh, thinking like this may be you even own an iPad, lol ? :)
322 2011-12-10 02:55:27 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: they're dead on phones
323 2011-12-10 02:55:33 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: phones are dead.
324 2011-12-10 02:55:34 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: I'm talking specifically about keyboards.
325 2011-12-10 02:56:09 <jrmithdobbs> also, capacitive displays have nothing to do with input support for gestures
326 2011-12-10 02:56:16 <jrmithdobbs> nothing.
327 2011-12-10 02:56:21 <[Tycho]> Also, for me any phone is useless for talking if it doesn't have full numeric keyboard.
328 2011-12-10 02:57:17 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: I know. But "stock" keyboards of iPhone and WM7 (at least) don't support even the most needed gestures.
329 2011-12-10 02:57:21 <jrmithdobbs> and neither iphone nor winmo or w/e it's name is this week include gesture input because we've known since the newton/palm how horrible it is
330 2011-12-10 02:57:51 <luke-jr> nm
331 2011-12-10 02:57:52 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: are you talking about handwriting recognition ?  I'm not.
332 2011-12-10 02:57:58 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: if multitouch counts as a gesture (and it should) they most certainly do support the one *necessary* one
333 2011-12-10 02:58:13 <luke-jr> capacitive has to do with poor accuracy and poor input device support.
334 2011-12-10 02:58:33 <luke-jr> resistive is better in every way.
335 2011-12-10 02:59:18 <[Tycho]> Necessary ones are: swipe up for capital letter, swipe left for backspace, diagonally for alternative char, down for Enter, right for space.
336 2011-12-10 02:59:19 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: and by multitouch i mean multiple simultaneous point recoginition, eg, pushing shift and hitting a letter
337 2011-12-10 02:59:49 <[Tycho]> I don't like pushing shift if I can just touch a letter and swipe it up :)
338 2011-12-10 02:59:58 <jrmithdobbs> no those are horrible work arounds for bad OSKs why would you consider those necessary
339 2011-12-10 03:00:13 <jrmithdobbs> you have horrible inclinations for UIs
340 2011-12-10 03:00:34 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: capacitive is good for page swiping :) Only.
341 2011-12-10 03:00:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: all of those can be done with capacitive
342 2011-12-10 03:00:58 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: Ok, let's say that you are wrong, I'm right and end this discussion.
343 2011-12-10 03:01:10 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: mostly. But they don't do it.
344 2011-12-10 03:01:22 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: except that everyone's stopping manufacturing this supposedly superior product that you are touting
345 2011-12-10 03:01:32 <jrmithdobbs> obviously you are in a very small minory with these beliefs.
346 2011-12-10 03:01:52 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: because marketting hypes "capacitive" as if it's a good thing
347 2011-12-10 03:01:54 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: because they have to support low-precision finger pointing :)
348 2011-12-10 03:02:13 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: resistive is capable of that too
349 2011-12-10 03:02:20 <luke-jr> there's even multitouch resistive now
350 2011-12-10 03:02:28 <luke-jr> but the marketting people are jerks
351 2011-12-10 03:02:43 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: no because they've been accurate enough for ~4 years now and people like you and tycho keep pretending we're still stuck with iphone1 era capacitive panels
352 2011-12-10 03:02:46 <jrmithdobbs> but w/e
353 2011-12-10 03:02:56 <jrmithdobbs> wasted enough finger movement on this topic ;p
354 2011-12-10 03:03:22 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: accurate enough means I can use a stylus to tap within 16 pixels, and use pressure to draw thicker lines
355 2011-12-10 03:03:30 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: I don't care about other people's thoughts on what is good and what is "old". I'm just using what I like.
356 2011-12-10 03:03:59 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: that kind of accuracy isn't necessary on a phone if the ui isn't awful
357 2011-12-10 03:04:07 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: phones are for idiots.
358 2011-12-10 03:04:14 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: taht kind of stuff is what dedicated stylus/pad is for
359 2011-12-10 03:04:14 <[Tycho]> But it's sad that they don't install good screens in portable devices anymore :(
360 2011-12-10 03:04:25 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I don't want to carry aroudn something else
361 2011-12-10 03:05:00 <[Tycho]> Also I really HATE interfaces with insanely low information density.
362 2011-12-10 03:05:08 <[Tycho]> Like iOS or new mtgox.
363 2011-12-10 03:05:33 <[Tycho]> I want to see everything at once, in one screen.
364 2011-12-10 03:07:15 <[Tycho]> Oh, it's weekend again... Not the best time for it :(
365 2011-12-10 03:09:43 <gmaxwell> +1 on the hate for low density.
366 2011-12-10 03:10:36 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i do think that coupling presure sensors with capacitive could lead to interesting things
367 2011-12-10 03:10:59 <rjk2> i wish folks would make high pixel density screens again :(
368 2011-12-10 03:11:11 <rjk2> at a reasonable price
369 2011-12-10 03:11:18 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i could see the level of differentiation of the older ~32-64 point wacom tablets on phones ... anything as sensitive as the newer stuff would be over kill for that kindo f device though
370 2011-12-10 03:11:37 <[Tycho]> I would like to have high-resolution screen on a notebook.
371 2011-12-10 03:11:40 <jrmithdobbs> being useful, i mean
372 2011-12-10 03:11:48 <gmaxwell> rjk2: Here is where I make you cry. http://www.screentekinc.com/IBM_ThinkPad_R50P--15-inch--2048x1536-qxga-laptop-lcd-screen.shtml
373 2011-12-10 03:11:54 <[Tycho]> ~800 px height is a shame
374 2011-12-10 03:12:27 <[Tycho]> Sony makes 1920x1080 at ~13", but it's too thin.
375 2011-12-10 03:12:29 <gmaxwell> See that?  That was the future. Too bad they don't make the future anymore.  Now the future is in the past.
376 2011-12-10 03:12:38 <rjk2> ...wat... is that the same resolution as my 23' screen
377 2011-12-10 03:12:47 <rjk2> yes it is
378 2011-12-10 03:12:49 <rjk2> the fuckers
379 2011-12-10 03:13:04 <gmaxwell> rjk2: yes, your 23' screen which is _already_ atypically high resolution.
380 2011-12-10 03:13:09 <rjk2> yes it is
381 2011-12-10 03:13:22 <[Tycho]> 1080 may be suitable for a notebook, but not acceptable for a desktop.
382 2011-12-10 03:13:35 <gmaxwell> Not because we can't build it but because grandma doesn't want her 1080p hdtv movies showing up 'small'.
383 2011-12-10 03:13:44 <[Tycho]> MOST modern desktop monitors have insanely low vertical pixel count.
384 2011-12-10 03:13:49 <rjk2> i don't understand thie bullshit about a 60" plasma having 1080 and being "HD"
385 2011-12-10 03:14:04 <jrmithdobbs> man i remember being excited about the first monitor i had that i could trick into barely doing 1024x768@60Hz even though it was out of spec
386 2011-12-10 03:14:09 <gmaxwell> rjk2: that laptop screen was made by the same team that made the T221 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors)
387 2011-12-10 03:14:10 <OneFixt> rjk2: it's cheaper to use tv screens for monitors
388 2011-12-10 03:14:16 <BlueMatt> yea any screen >23" with @1920x1080 isnt hd anymore
389 2011-12-10 03:14:20 <[Tycho]> I can't use desktop with less than 1200 px height :)
390 2011-12-10 03:14:27 <OneFixt> so they just all them "hd" and neglect to mention that it's lower than standard computer resolutions
391 2011-12-10 03:14:42 <rjk2> my 17" laptop is 1920x1200, but they don't make that panel anymore
392 2011-12-10 03:14:47 <rjk2> that i know of
393 2011-12-10 03:14:56 <rjk2> nice vertical res
394 2011-12-10 03:15:08 <[Tycho]> They have two "labels" - "HD ready" and "Full HD". It's 720p and 1080p.
395 2011-12-10 03:15:11 <BlueMatt> almost 4k @22 in in 2001???
396 2011-12-10 03:15:20 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: and now only available on ebay.
397 2011-12-10 03:15:29 <rjk2> but is it though?
398 2011-12-10 03:15:34 <[Tycho]> Professional monitors are still available with 1600x1200 and 1920x1200
399 2011-12-10 03:15:35 <gmaxwell> They're beautiful (though have a poor refresh rate.. only 48hz)
400 2011-12-10 03:15:36 <jrmithdobbs> i dunno 11' @ 1366x768  works for me
401 2011-12-10 03:15:49 <rjk2> who needs a refresh rate when all you need is density
402 2011-12-10 03:15:53 <gmaxwell> rjk2: agreed.
403 2011-12-10 03:16:13 <BlueMatt> unless you are gaming, that kind of desnsity is worth like 15Hz refresh rate
404 2011-12-10 03:16:15 <gmaxwell> So you can find some of those qxga panels on surplus.. and I found someone that made a dvi driver board for them.
405 2011-12-10 03:16:30 <jrmithdobbs> haha
406 2011-12-10 03:16:35 <jrmithdobbs> that's dedication
407 2011-12-10 03:16:54 <gmaxwell> Contemplated building a briefcase 'laptop' using two of them. :)
408 2011-12-10 03:16:59 <rjk2> wonder if you could make a business of retrofitting old t-series notebooks with modern procs
409 2011-12-10 03:17:11 <jrmithdobbs> can you really not buy standard 1920x1200 or similar monitors?
410 2011-12-10 03:17:18 <OneFixt> dell makes some
411 2011-12-10 03:17:27 <rjk2> not that i can find for less than 24" or so
412 2011-12-10 03:17:35 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: only at large sizes.
413 2011-12-10 03:17:40 <jrmithdobbs> crazy
414 2011-12-10 03:17:47 <jrmithdobbs> i haven't looked in quite a while
415 2011-12-10 03:17:56 <gmaxwell> And nothing has really advanced beyond what we had in 2002 or so.
416 2011-12-10 03:18:07 <jrmithdobbs> i just use tvs at this point tbqh
417 2011-12-10 03:18:36 <gmaxwell> E.g. no affordable 2/4k pixel tall displays have ever been built, though they clearly could be.
418 2011-12-10 03:19:08 <OneFixt> perhaps we'll get something nice when OLED enters the mainstream
419 2011-12-10 03:19:41 <gmaxwell> doubt it, there just isn't a market for it.
420 2011-12-10 03:19:52 <gmaxwell> esp since windows _still_ has crap for resolution independance.
421 2011-12-10 03:19:58 <BlueMatt> probably not, as was already put, grandma doesnt want here videos to look small on here screen
422 2011-12-10 03:20:32 <rjk2> all the panel designers eyes are going bad on them
423 2011-12-10 03:20:39 <gmaxwell> It used to be that 1600x1200 displays were costly becase all the normal windows users didn't want to ues beyond 800x600 because it made everything tiny.. same thing today, except the new resolution is ~1920x1080.
424 2011-12-10 03:21:25 <rjk2> some new phones are getting up there in the density department, but only on tiny overall dimensions
425 2011-12-10 03:21:38 <rjk2> wonder if we could bribe a panel maker
426 2011-12-10 03:21:48 <gmaxwell> Also, a lot of the competition has been for brightness/contrast/refresh reat.. none of which promote super high density.
427 2011-12-10 03:21:58 <gmaxwell> s/reat/rat/e
428 2011-12-10 03:22:03 <rjk2> 100,000:1 !!!!
429 2011-12-10 03:22:19 <rjk2> wait that's "low" these days
430 2011-12-10 03:22:23 <OneFixt> is that the new bitcoinica leverage?
431 2011-12-10 03:22:27 <rjk2> heh
432 2011-12-10 03:22:32 <BlueMatt> wow, thats depressing highest newegg sells is 2560x1600...
433 2011-12-10 03:22:43 <rjk2> yeah, and its 30 inches
434 2011-12-10 03:22:52 <[Tycho]> Narrow panels are much cheaper to produce.
435 2011-12-10 03:22:59 <gmaxwell> rjk2: yea.. 10zillion to 1 which we then then feed 24-bpp images into.
436 2011-12-10 03:23:09 <[Tycho]> That's why marketing forced everyone into "hd".
437 2011-12-10 03:23:15 <BlueMatt> rjk2: no its 10 billion : 1 (they just forgot to mention that they turned the backlight and room lights off before measuring black, and turned a spotlight on before measuring white)
438 2011-12-10 03:23:26 <rjk2> heh yea
439 2011-12-10 03:23:50 <[Tycho]> I hate LCD technology for being unable to show black color.
440 2011-12-10 03:23:59 <BlueMatt> led ftw
441 2011-12-10 03:24:06 <rjk2> even then
442 2011-12-10 03:24:13 <rjk2> oled is more like it though
443 2011-12-10 03:24:30 <[Tycho]> I tried the best ones, but still no black :(
444 2011-12-10 03:24:36 <BlueMatt> not led backlight, led
445 2011-12-10 03:24:48 <gmaxwell> Anything far beyond 1500:1 is kinda pointless 8 bit per color component only has about 10 bits of dynamic range. (e.g. when correctly displayed the highest value should only be ~1024x brighter than one higher than the darkest value)
446 2011-12-10 03:26:28 <jrmithdobbs> rjk2: think they have problems making bigger panels with some of those super high densities
447 2011-12-10 03:26:59 <rjk2> yea, dead pixels are more common
448 2011-12-10 03:27:20 <rjk2> but i can't help but wonder whether that could be improved with recent tech
449 2011-12-10 03:27:51 <jrmithdobbs> noone's really working on it apparently
450 2011-12-10 03:28:45 <rjk2> wonder if the smartphone screen makers still use blanks that are the size of TV blanks
451 2011-12-10 03:29:02 <rjk2> or not "still" but you know what i mean
452 2011-12-10 03:29:39 <gmaxwell> I'd take some dead pixels (esp if they were dead-off) in exchange for improved density.
453 2011-12-10 03:30:16 <rjk2> i'm not sure that "blanks" is the right term, but HD TV makers get 8 screens per sheet of glass, and i wonder if they use the same size sheet for phone screens
454 2011-12-10 03:30:28 <gmaxwell> though I have a dead on white pixel on this screen and I never notice it..
455 2011-12-10 03:30:30 <jrmithdobbs> rjk2: i'd guess they do
456 2011-12-10 03:31:00 <gmaxwell> though this one is somewhat high density.. 1400x1050 in 12"
457 2011-12-10 03:31:07 <rjk2> i had a white stuck pixel, but i was able to massage it and make it go dimmer
458 2011-12-10 03:31:32 <rjk2> what device has that density gmaxwell
459 2011-12-10 03:31:47 <gmaxwell> oh. hm. maybe its 13"..
460 2011-12-10 03:32:06 <gmaxwell> no no 12.1
461 2011-12-10 03:32:21 <gmaxwell> rjk2: thinkpad x61 with the special SIPS screen.
462 2011-12-10 03:32:21 <rjk2> older notebook?
463 2011-12-10 03:32:24 <gmaxwell> yea.
464 2011-12-10 03:32:26 <rjk2> oh nice
465 2011-12-10 03:32:30 <rjk2> x61 is still good
466 2011-12-10 03:32:46 <rjk2> is that a p4 or a core duo
467 2011-12-10 03:33:01 <gmaxwell> It's fine, but mine is getting old and worn. My GF had one too and hers is basically dead.
468 2011-12-10 03:33:15 <gmaxwell> rjk2: core2 duo in fact L7500
469 2011-12-10 03:33:22 <rjk2> oh nice
470 2011-12-10 03:33:34 <gmaxwell> which is all I really need.. I don't want anything faster (though I wouldn't refuse it)
471 2011-12-10 03:34:14 <gmaxwell> my backlights are starting to get a bit dim though. replacing them is a pain.. (I've already replaced the keyboard and hinge)
472 2011-12-10 03:34:22 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: seems apple just happens to have stayed (relatively) dense on the panels they used compared to everyone else is why i hadn't noticed this
473 2011-12-10 03:34:35 <rjk2> brb, upgrading ram
474 2011-12-10 03:34:55 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i hadn't noticed this was going on until this conversation tonight but you're right, it's kind of crazy
475 2011-12-10 03:34:58 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: yes, apple has... though it's not great there either, just the 'best' of a bad bunch.
476 2011-12-10 03:35:35 <gmaxwell> less market pressure to stay with low res displays, their software is more resolution independant, and when it isn't they can fix it.
477 2011-12-10 03:35:38 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: well, i like 11"-12" form factors so i don't expect much more that 1400ish x 800ish ;p
478 2011-12-10 03:35:52 <jrmithdobbs> s/that/than/
479 2011-12-10 03:36:30 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ya, 99% of their widgets and shit are vectorized not bitmaps and have been since ~2001
480 2011-12-10 03:36:45 <gmaxwell> ugh. too small. I love my 12.1" 1400x1050 .. but felt it was a step down from the 14.3" 1600x1200 I used to use.
481 2011-12-10 03:36:56 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: os x has made so many leaps in that area and rarely gets respect for it ;p
482 2011-12-10 03:37:33 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: you'd go crazy watching me work.
483 2011-12-10 03:37:39 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: batshit insane.
484 2011-12-10 03:38:27 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: no matter what size the display 90% of my work is done in a 120x24 terminal (a single one using screen, mind you, usually 4-8 nested ones on different hosts and shit) at ~9pt font
485 2011-12-10 03:38:42 <gmaxwell> I wonder if some crazy people put up something on all the tech news sites that they were trying to raise $xx million to get good screens made, if they'd get it. :)
486 2011-12-10 03:39:19 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: occassionally if i'm having to read annoying shit like java stack traces/etc it'll get blown up to an INSANE 120x48 ;p
487 2011-12-10 03:39:33 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: I work pretty much like that too. Except instead of screen its a set of tabbed gnome terminals packed covering the whole screen completely with no borders.
488 2011-12-10 03:40:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ya i can't work like that
489 2011-12-10 03:40:28 <jrmithdobbs> i'll occassionally open a second term if i'm waiting for something to finish and watching it or something
490 2011-12-10 03:40:34 <gmaxwell> and 9pt Inconsolata medium.
491 2011-12-10 03:41:06 <BlueMatt> though I suppose most of my work is half-screen of gnome terminals and half-screen of gedit
492 2011-12-10 03:41:07 <jrmithdobbs> otherwise i like one focal point with either research type stuff (email/web browser) or nothing behind it
493 2011-12-10 03:41:09 <BlueMatt> or similar editor
494 2011-12-10 03:41:27 <gmaxwell> I absolutely need at least two viewports.. one to read from and one to write to.
495 2011-12-10 03:42:00 <jrmithdobbs> i've actually, shockingly to me, switched to running mail.app in the new fullscreen mode because i can cmd+tab to and from it like that
496 2011-12-10 03:42:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you use gedit? ... take the time to learn a proper editor!
497 2011-12-10 03:42:17 <jrmithdobbs> without having to see anything but the unread count on my normal screen
498 2011-12-10 03:42:54 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, I usually use gedit or nano, thats another part of I need to take the time to sit down and optimize my workflow a shitton
499 2011-12-10 03:43:13 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: my set of safari windows on the other hand end up looking like your terminals in short order
500 2011-12-10 03:43:16 <gmaxwell> (well, I shouldn't be talking, although I'm also an emacs user I still use joe for most of my normal editing)
501 2011-12-10 03:44:07 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: but for whatever reason i can easily filter out anything not in that 120x24 9pt Monaco
502 2011-12-10 03:44:13 <gmaxwell> I need to stop using joe so I forget the damn keybindings so they don't frustrate me when I use emacs.
503 2011-12-10 03:44:17 <jrmithdobbs> reverse video terminal
504 2011-12-10 03:47:25 <lianj> heh, confessions of editor usage
505 2011-12-10 03:48:26 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/mba.png
506 2011-12-10 03:48:50 <jrmithdobbs> that's right there are two im clients open in that screenshot logged into the same accounts
507 2011-12-10 03:48:53 <jrmithdobbs> what of it
508 2011-12-10 03:49:03 <jrmithdobbs> (just noticed that, haha)
509 2011-12-10 03:51:43 <jrmithdobbs> at least i use a proper editor, though
510 2011-12-10 03:52:11 <lianj> and dvorak
511 2011-12-10 03:52:17 <jrmithdobbs> indeed
512 2011-12-10 03:52:21 <BlueMatt> heh
513 2011-12-10 03:53:02 <gmaxwell> oy.. overlapping windows.
514 2011-12-10 03:53:41 <copumpkin> use xmonad
515 2011-12-10 03:53:49 <copumpkin> I am surely unbiased
516 2011-12-10 03:53:56 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: see previous comment about being able to mentally filter out everything but the terminal ;p
517 2011-12-10 03:54:17 <lianj> copumpkin: on osx?
518 2011-12-10 03:54:25 <copumpkin> nah, osx sux
519 2011-12-10 03:54:28 <copumpkin> get a real computer
520 2011-12-10 03:54:34 <jrmithdobbs> i did lie though, i apparently changed from 9pt monaco to 12pt some time around when my laptop res got better than 1024x768 ;p
521 2011-12-10 03:54:37 <copumpkin> (okay fine, I'll stop trolling, I'm on a mac right now)
522 2011-12-10 03:54:44 <[Tycho]> Why would someone use irssi ?
523 2011-12-10 03:54:46 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: I use xmoand. It's not use for haskell nuts its probably the only windowmanager with formal software testing.
524 2011-12-10 03:54:55 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: utf8 input
525 2011-12-10 03:55:07 <copumpkin> gmaxwell: yeah, I know quite a few people who like it despite not being haskell nutjobs
526 2011-12-10 03:55:38 <[Tycho]> jrmithdobbs: why do you need that ?
527 2011-12-10 03:55:39 <lianj> gmaxwell: subtle is nice too
528 2011-12-10 03:55:45 <jrmithdobbs> copumpkin: i've actually happily used xmoand and ratpoison in the paste actually
529 2011-12-10 03:55:55 <[Tycho]> Other clients can't do it ?
530 2011-12-10 03:56:04 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: ascii art is lots better with utf8 that's why
531 2011-12-10 03:56:11 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: correct
532 2011-12-10 03:56:18 <jrmithdobbs> terminal ones, anyways
533 2011-12-10 03:56:26 <BlueMatt> heh, if you saw the retarded rick perry "I have never read the constitution" video: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e23d1c26d4/jesus-responds-to-rick-perry-s-strong-ad
534 2011-12-10 03:56:37 <jrmithdobbs> it might get fixed in epic if the guy who showed interest doesn't lose it before fixing it ;p
535 2011-12-10 03:56:44 <[Tycho]> I'm using LimeChat, but it's way worse than mIRC :(
536 2011-12-10 03:56:45 <jrmithdobbs> at which point i'll stop using irssi
537 2011-12-10 03:57:17 <jrmithdobbs> not pictured in the screen shot is the hilarious number of computers it takes to display that irssi window
538 2011-12-10 03:57:38 <copumpkin> [Tycho]: I like textual, which is a fork of limechat
539 2011-12-10 03:57:43 <copumpkin> well, like is a strong word
540 2011-12-10 03:57:50 <copumpkin> but it's better than the other shitty IRC clients I tried
541 2011-12-10 03:57:53 <jrmithdobbs> laptop->screen session on router->screen session on mini->irssi->openvpn tunnel->bnc->irc
542 2011-12-10 03:58:14 <lianj> s/screen/tmux/
543 2011-12-10 03:58:19 <jrmithdobbs> nevar
544 2011-12-10 03:58:23 <[Tycho]> copumpkin: what's the difference ?
545 2011-12-10 03:58:37 <copumpkin> [Tycho]: I can't remember, I was trying a bunch of clients back then, and settled on this one :P
546 2011-12-10 03:58:46 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: tmux is nifty, i can't remember what it is off hand but there's some trivially stupid feature of screen i use constantly that they don't have implemented yet
547 2011-12-10 03:58:50 <lianj> tmux is the tiled terminal wm just there :>
548 2011-12-10 03:59:15 <lianj> which one?
549 2011-12-10 03:59:26 <jrmithdobbs> i like their session management and flinging windows between sessions and stuff
550 2011-12-10 03:59:45 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: i can't remember, i'd have to spend time actually trying to work (instead of irc) in a tmux session to remember, heh
551 2011-12-10 03:59:55 <lianj> hehe ok
552 2011-12-10 04:00:15 <jrmithdobbs> i like it though and keep trying it every few months ;p
553 2011-12-10 04:00:26 <jrmithdobbs> the less gpl'ed software i can use the better imho.
554 2011-12-10 04:01:34 <lianj> tiling panels in tmux is also very enjoyable, also moving them between windows or even session like you said
555 2011-12-10 04:05:42 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: oh wow you can have input broadcast to multiple terms at once in tmux? that's nifty.
556 2011-12-10 04:06:27 <rjk2> speak of the devil: http://hexus.net/mobile/news/tablets/32726-apple-ipad-3-qxga-panels-enter-production/
557 2011-12-10 04:06:32 <lianj> yes, nice for pairprogramming
558 2011-12-10 04:06:57 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: or ghetto capistrino deploys
559 2011-12-10 04:07:02 <jrmithdobbs> was more what i was thinking
560 2011-12-10 04:07:06 <jrmithdobbs> heh
561 2011-12-10 04:07:15 <rjk2> wonder if i can rip the screen out and use it otherwise, or else keep it in the bezel and mount it and drive it externally
562 2011-12-10 04:07:17 <lianj> also a tmux session is a socket, anyone that can read/write to it can attach it
563 2011-12-10 04:07:39 <jrmithdobbs> ya there whole client/server model is a billion times better than screen
564 2011-12-10 04:09:33 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: remembered what it was
565 2011-12-10 04:09:54 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: the logging thing mentioned on this page, but apparently that's fixed
566 2011-12-10 04:10:00 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Screen_vs_tmux
567 2011-12-10 04:10:44 <lianj> ah :)
568 2011-12-10 04:11:00 <jrmithdobbs> i'm sure you could see how that'd get annoying quick if you're used to it
569 2011-12-10 04:16:41 <BlueMatt> rjk2: there is an x11 server app for iOS
570 2011-12-10 04:16:46 <BlueMatt> could just use that...
571 2011-12-10 04:16:55 <rjk2> really? hmmm
572 2011-12-10 04:17:00 <jrmithdobbs> rjk2: iSSH
573 2011-12-10 04:17:04 <BlueMatt> iirc it costs $, but not too bad
574 2011-12-10 04:17:06 <jrmithdobbs> it's like $5
575 2011-12-10 04:17:17 <BlueMatt> well there is always instalulous
576 2011-12-10 04:17:45 <jrmithdobbs> but will do crazy things like vnc connections tunneled over ssh (as in, ssh in port forward and then connect to vnc over the forward ... ) automagically
577 2011-12-10 04:17:50 <jrmithdobbs> it's worth the $5
578 2011-12-10 04:18:08 <BlueMatt> or just straight xserv
579 2011-12-10 04:18:09 <jrmithdobbs> pretty great vt220/xterm-color emulation too
580 2011-12-10 04:20:44 <jrmithdobbs> kind of want to install tmux on my laptop but really don't want to update the rest of my ports tree
581 2011-12-10 04:20:48 <jrmithdobbs> heh
582 2011-12-10 04:24:24 <lianj> haha
583 2011-12-10 04:25:21 <lianj> do you need to? it only depends on ncurses, libevent
584 2011-12-10 04:25:43 <jrmithdobbs> macports is in a shit state on this box atm
585 2011-12-10 04:26:02 <jrmithdobbs> so if I start futzing with it i'm going to fix it
586 2011-12-10 04:27:23 <jrmithdobbs> Error: Target org.macports.destroot returned: shell command failed (see log for details)
587 2011-12-10 04:27:26 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
588 2011-12-10 04:27:27 <lianj> good time to switch to homebrew then :>
589 2011-12-10 04:27:32 <jrmithdobbs> on zlib
590 2011-12-10 04:27:33 <jrmithdobbs> heh
591 2011-12-10 04:27:55 <jrmithdobbs> I don't like homebrew
592 2011-12-10 04:28:01 <lianj> i left the mac before homebrew came, but heard good things about it
593 2011-12-10 04:28:41 <jrmithdobbs> no i just broke this at one point back when the bitcoin os x build was wonky and i was trying to figure out how to get it to build against the macports versions of the libs
594 2011-12-10 04:29:04 <jrmithdobbs> homebrew is non-deterministic and kind of annoying if you have more than one box
595 2011-12-10 04:29:31 <jrmithdobbs> because building things in different orders means there's no telling how a given package is built on a given system compared to one you were just using
596 2011-12-10 04:30:20 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: i treat macports like i treat freebsd ports and have a buildhost and shit ;p
597 2011-12-10 04:31:59 <lianj> ^^
598 2011-12-10 04:40:28 <luke-jr> weeeeee
599 2011-12-10 04:40:39 <luke-jr> I now have a Bitcoin-Qt with "Generate Bitcoins" menu option
600 2011-12-10 04:40:53 <luke-jr> that uses Eligius with a BitForce
601 2011-12-10 04:41:29 <luke-jr> no configuration required, just check the menu item and wait for bitcoins :D
602 2011-12-10 04:41:56 <rjk2> you have a unit to test with, or jsut going by the protocol spec?
603 2011-12-10 04:42:43 <luke-jr> rjk2: I will have a unit to test with tomorrow.
604 2011-12-10 04:42:54 <rjk2> nice
605 2011-12-10 04:43:34 <luke-jr> no LP support yet, but Eligius can handle it ;)
606 2011-12-10 04:44:09 <luke-jr> "yet" assuming they want to hire me to finish it properly <.<;;
607 2011-12-10 04:44:15 <luke-jr> LP support would be much more difficult
608 2011-12-10 04:44:48 <rjk2> wonder if it would be easier to rip the core out and build it into cgminer
609 2011-12-10 04:45:41 <luke-jr> probably.
610 2011-12-10 04:45:48 <luke-jr> and then link cgminer into Bitcoin-Qt optionally
611 2011-12-10 04:45:59 <luke-jr> this way just seemed more fun
612 2011-12-10 04:46:08 <rjk2> of course ;)
613 2011-12-10 04:47:09 <luke-jr> I imagine I could drastically increase Eligius's userbase if I had a one-check miner builtin to a Bitcoin-Qt fork
614 2011-12-10 04:47:17 <copumpkin> BitForce?
615 2011-12-10 04:47:30 <luke-jr> copumpkin: "1 GH/s at 20 W" FPGA
616 2011-12-10 04:47:30 <rjk2> butterflylabs unicorn box ;)
617 2011-12-10 04:47:36 <copumpkin> oh, nice
618 2011-12-10 04:47:46 <copumpkin> how does it interface with the computer?
619 2011-12-10 04:47:52 <luke-jr> USB UART
620 2011-12-10 04:47:53 <jrmithdobbs> was going to ask the same thing
621 2011-12-10 04:47:55 <jrmithdobbs> ewww
622 2011-12-10 04:47:59 <copumpkin> hah
623 2011-12-10 04:48:00 <copumpkin> ah well
624 2011-12-10 04:48:04 <rjk2> except atm it seems to be a ~975mhash at 60 watts anyway
625 2011-12-10 04:48:12 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: that's not the bad part& I have to poll it for results :/
626 2011-12-10 04:48:18 <copumpkin> rjk2: you've used one?
627 2011-12-10 04:48:21 <rjk2> no
628 2011-12-10 04:48:22 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: seriously?
629 2011-12-10 04:48:27 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: yes
630 2011-12-10 04:48:34 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I guess it's not TOO bad since it's predictable.
631 2011-12-10 04:48:44 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: why not just add some simple serial terminal logic
632 2011-12-10 04:48:45 <luke-jr> ie, you can wait exactly N ms to start polling
633 2011-12-10 04:48:51 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: and let it spit back a stream
634 2011-12-10 04:49:00 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: dunno, ask them >_<
635 2011-12-10 04:49:17 <luke-jr> my guess is the core part just writes to a buffer while it works
636 2011-12-10 04:49:22 <luke-jr> and pushing would slow it down
637 2011-12-10 04:49:25 <jrmithdobbs> the polling might be where that other 25mhash and extra 40 watts of load is coming from ;p
638 2011-12-10 04:49:26 <copumpkin> you could write a simple API that presented a "streaming" interface
639 2011-12-10 04:49:29 <jrmithdobbs> (half serious)
640 2011-12-10 04:49:44 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I guess I'll find out tomorrow
641 2011-12-10 04:50:38 <jrmithdobbs> rjk2: you know if it's actually a custom fpga or just like a vertex/etc?
642 2011-12-10 04:50:46 <rjk2> no one knows
643 2011-12-10 04:50:56 <rjk2> check out the forum for all the specualtion
644 2011-12-10 04:51:01 <rjk2> speculation*
645 2011-12-10 04:51:11 <jrmithdobbs> don't care that much
646 2011-12-10 04:51:13 <jrmithdobbs> heh
647 2011-12-10 04:51:41 <rjk2> i hate the forums, that is the only thread i watch
648 2011-12-10 04:51:59 <rjk2> its been locked once already for troll wars
649 2011-12-10 04:56:57 <jrmithdobbs> oh annoying, zlib was broken because i had distcc turned on
650 2011-12-10 04:57:08 <jrmithdobbs> shameful
651 2011-12-10 05:15:02 <[Tycho]> rjk2: I would say that ~975 MH/s is optimistic.
652 2011-12-10 05:18:32 <jrmithdobbs> what are they charging?
653 2011-12-10 05:20:35 <[Tycho]> $699
654 2011-12-10 05:21:15 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: if Ufasoft keeps crashing, it could explain your low averages
655 2011-12-10 05:21:36 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: why do they use Ufasoft ?
656 2011-12-10 05:21:49 <luke-jr> nfc, but they've given up on it for now :>
657 2011-12-10 05:21:58 <luke-jr> they'll be using my miner for their demo on Sunday
658 2011-12-10 05:22:08 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: also, do Ufasoft crashes many times per minute ?
659 2011-12-10 05:22:18 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: not sure
660 2011-12-10 05:22:38 <[Tycho]> It looks like persistent speed to me, not crashing.
661 2011-12-10 05:24:04 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you can't get persistent averages over minutes
662 2011-12-10 05:25:45 <[Tycho]> I see how the shares are coming and there are no noticeable working/crashed pattern.
663 2011-12-10 05:25:48 <Nixload> First time accepted submitter RCC42 writes "The Opportunity rover has found evidence that liquid water once flowed on Mars, through the discovery of gypsum ??? a mineral that can only be formed in the presence of water. Though other evidence in the past has suggested highly acidic water on Mars, this is the first evidence for water with a pH suitable for life as we know it."
664 2011-12-10 05:25:51 <luke-jr> also, I would suggest not making critical speculation since you intend to compete with them
665 2011-12-10 05:26:25 <luke-jr> even if it turns out to be true, it makes you look bad :p
666 2011-12-10 05:27:11 <[Tycho]> I didn't said anything.
667 2011-12-10 05:28:17 <luke-jr> :P
668 2011-12-10 05:28:23 <[Tycho]> I'm not even posting "it's a scam" screams in that scam thread.
669 2011-12-10 05:28:41 <jrmithdobbs> scam's probably harsh
670 2011-12-10 05:28:54 <jrmithdobbs> but it doesn't seem to be 100% legit either
671 2011-12-10 05:29:11 <[Tycho]> Yes, I don't think it's a scam. And it may be legit. Just not up to specs yet.
672 2011-12-10 05:30:03 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: if my project will be successful, "competition" wouldn't be the word :)
673 2011-12-10 05:30:24 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: seems pretty legit to me
674 2011-12-10 05:30:46 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: well, the 1MH/s @ 20W claim at least
675 2011-12-10 05:31:03 <[Tycho]> 1 MH/s looks legit.
676 2011-12-10 05:32:39 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: I just need Bitcoin to survive those months :)
677 2011-12-10 05:32:53 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: why?
678 2011-12-10 05:33:03 <[Tycho]> To sell my product, of course.
679 2011-12-10 05:34:14 <gribble> Error: "tell,gavinanderson" is not a valid command.
680 2011-12-10 05:34:14 <jrmithdobbs> ;;tell,gavinanderson please to be updating github downloads
681 2011-12-10 05:34:21 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen gavinanderson, I'll let you do the telling.
682 2011-12-10 05:34:21 <jrmithdobbs> ;;tell gavinanderson please to be updating github downloads
683 2011-12-10 05:34:33 <jrmithdobbs> err
684 2011-12-10 05:34:37 <justmoon> jrmithdobbs: gavinandresen
685 2011-12-10 05:34:44 <[Tycho]> He has a tricky nickname, for sure :)
686 2011-12-10 05:34:50 <jrmithdobbs> ;;tell gavinandresen please to be updating github downloads
687 2011-12-10 05:34:51 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen gavinandresen, I'll let you do the telling.
688 2011-12-10 05:34:55 <jrmithdobbs> haha
689 2011-12-10 05:35:39 <jrmithdobbs> ;;tell BlueMatt tell gavin please to be updating github downloads
690 2011-12-10 05:35:40 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen BlueMatt, I'll let you do the telling.
691 2011-12-10 05:35:52 <jrmithdobbs> um, is gribble broke?
692 2011-12-10 05:36:39 <jrmithdobbs> ;;later gavinandresen please to be updating github downloads
693 2011-12-10 05:36:40 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "gavinandresen" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
694 2011-12-10 05:36:51 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
695 2011-12-10 05:36:51 <jrmithdobbs> ;;later tell gavinandresen please to be updating github downloads
696 2011-12-10 05:36:59 <jrmithdobbs> maybe
697 2011-12-10 05:37:05 <justmoon> ^^
698 2011-12-10 05:37:13 <justmoon> you definitely get an A for persistence
699 2011-12-10 05:46:44 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
700 2011-12-10 05:46:44 <luke-jr> ;;later tell jrmithdobbs o rly?
701 2011-12-10 05:48:26 <gmaxwell> 'but there is no command named "gavinandresen" in it.'  < I like the idea of a gavinandresen command.
702 2011-12-10 05:49:44 <justmoon> gavinandresen should be a verb
703 2011-12-10 05:49:53 <luke-jr> :;alias add gavin later tell gavinandresen $*
704 2011-12-10 05:50:02 <justmoon> lol
705 2011-12-10 05:51:35 <gmaxwell> "daaaaddddd she's touching me!"
706 2011-12-10 05:57:02 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: brilliant
707 2011-12-10 05:57:46 <jrmithdobbs> ;;blocks
708 2011-12-10 05:57:47 <gribble> Error: "blocks" is not a valid command.
709 2011-12-10 05:57:52 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
710 2011-12-10 05:57:53 <gribble> 156890
711 2011-12-10 06:00:22 <phantomcircuit> theymos, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54131.0
712 2011-12-10 06:00:29 <phantomcircuit> this shit is getting ridiculous
713 2011-12-10 06:00:36 <phantomcircuit> coinexchanger.com should be banned from the forums
714 2011-12-10 06:00:53 <phantomcircuit> he's got like a dozen threads he keeps bumping
715 2011-12-10 06:00:57 <[Tycho]> phantomcircuit: is this a scam ?
716 2011-12-10 06:01:07 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], i actually have no idea
717 2011-12-10 06:01:18 <phantomcircuit> i suspect it just has a very large spread
718 2011-12-10 06:01:27 <phantomcircuit> Buy: 3.29 Sell: 2.688
719 2011-12-10 06:01:49 <phantomcircuit> and huge fees
720 2011-12-10 06:01:52 <phantomcircuit> anyways
721 2011-12-10 06:01:58 <phantomcircuit> the spam is what's annoying me
722 2011-12-10 06:02:07 <[Tycho]> What language is gribble written in ?
723 2011-12-10 06:02:53 <ThomasV_> ask him
724 2011-12-10 06:03:32 <phantomcircuit> python
725 2011-12-10 06:03:36 <phantomcircuit> http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/
726 2011-12-10 06:04:03 <midnightmagic> gribble is a supybot written at least partly in python
727 2011-12-10 06:06:02 <gribble> Error: "lang" is not a valid command.
728 2011-12-10 06:06:02 <jrmithdobbs> ;;lang
729 2011-12-10 06:06:16 <luke-jr> ;;version
730 2011-12-10 06:06:18 <gribble> The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1+gribble (2011-08-12T18:12:56-0400).  The newest version available in the gribble git repository is 0.83.4.1+gribble (2011-08-12T18:12:56-0400).
731 2011-12-10 06:06:27 <luke-jr> O.o
732 2011-12-10 06:07:27 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Trade&action=view#Real-time_Trading
733 2011-12-10 06:07:39 <phantomcircuit> the cryptoxchange entry seems extremely misleading to me
734 2011-12-10 06:07:51 <phantomcircuit> they accept wire transfers in various currencies
735 2011-12-10 06:07:55 <phantomcircuit> but really everybody does
736 2011-12-10 06:07:59 <phantomcircuit> that seems... wrong
737 2011-12-10 06:08:15 <midnightmagic> gribble source is in nanotube's github repo here: github.com/nanotube/ and everything i can find is written in python
738 2011-12-10 06:09:29 <luke-jr> nanotube should add Yandere to gribble
739 2011-12-10 06:09:33 <luke-jr> then it's Python+PHP
740 2011-12-10 06:09:48 <luke-jr> <.<
741 2011-12-10 06:11:57 <midnightmagic> ah.  looks like sourceforge is the "main" repository. git://gribble.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/gribble/gribble
742 2011-12-10 06:17:38 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: the three piss poor pees if you will, even
743 2011-12-10 06:17:40 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
744 2011-12-10 06:18:15 <theymos> phantomcircuit: I banned him and deleted all of his posts.
745 2011-12-10 06:18:46 <phantomcircuit> theymos, hazah
746 2011-12-10 06:18:53 <[Tycho]> Cool.
747 2011-12-10 06:19:57 <luke-jr> theymos: next up is [Tycho]
748 2011-12-10 06:19:59 <luke-jr> </troll>
749 2011-12-10 06:21:30 <jrmithdobbs> theymos: then luke-jr
750 2011-12-10 06:21:33 <jrmithdobbs> </serious>
751 2011-12-10 06:21:47 <luke-jr> that's a lot of work
752 2011-12-10 06:21:50 <copumpkin> I, on the other hand, am awesome
753 2011-12-10 06:21:54 <copumpkin> haven't you seen my ad on the forum?
754 2011-12-10 06:21:55 <luke-jr> there's a shortcut too
755 2011-12-10 06:22:01 <luke-jr> let's just delete the whole forum
756 2011-12-10 06:22:13 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: seconded
757 2011-12-10 06:22:28 <luke-jr> :P
758 2011-12-10 06:22:32 <jrmithdobbs> objections?
759 2011-12-10 06:22:35 <jrmithdobbs> motion passes
760 2011-12-10 06:31:16 <[Tycho]> Who is copumpkin and what is his project ?
761 2011-12-10 06:31:29 <copumpkin> why should I have a project?
762 2011-12-10 06:31:49 <copumpkin> oh, the ad? the ad just says I'm awesome
763 2011-12-10 06:32:19 <[Tycho]> Because you are on #bitcoin-dev
764 2011-12-10 06:32:50 <copumpkin> o.O
765 2011-12-10 07:07:07 <theymos> Did Gavin ever send an alert about the wallet encryption bug?
766 2011-12-10 07:36:05 <doublec> has an alert ever been sent?
767 2011-12-10 07:36:41 <theymos> Not if one wasn't sent in this case. I thought Gavin was going to send one for this, though.
768 2011-12-10 08:25:58 <CIA-100> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rf84c39e / (lib/rpc/jsonrpcserver.js lib/rpc/meta.js): Added "definerpc" meta RPC call. (+5 more commits...) - http://git.io/EY0R_w https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/f84c39e8a9fd1a7b8ef1fcb6c69b548d5cd33b88
769 2011-12-10 12:19:37 <erus`> anyone want a fitocracy invite?
770 2011-12-10 12:33:06 <Diablo-D3> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3337520
771 2011-12-10 12:33:15 <Diablo-D3> nvidia hate time, upvote if you can
772 2011-12-10 12:34:46 <batouzo> Diablo-D3: radeon sure sucks bawls too
773 2011-12-10 12:35:15 <batouzo> bitches couldn't write a driver to COM port that doesn't crash if their life depended on it
774 2011-12-10 12:36:56 <Diablo-D3> if that was a troll, it wasnt a very good one
775 2011-12-10 12:37:10 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck does AMD have to do with serial ports?
776 2011-12-10 14:29:13 <makomk> luke-jr: wait, the BitForce stuff requires polling for results? That's a bit silly of them...
777 2011-12-10 14:29:22 <luke-jr> I agree.
778 2011-12-10 14:31:19 <makomk> I mean, the FPGA I'm using does, but I don't have any resources left to implement anything clever. They've got a fairly powerful external microcontroller on their board.
779 2011-12-10 14:33:47 <Diablo-D3> why doesnt that just run the damned client then
780 2011-12-10 14:35:48 <luke-jr> makomk: I imagine it would use yet even more power if the microcontroller polled on its own
781 2011-12-10 14:35:54 <luke-jr> well, maybe not&
782 2011-12-10 14:36:13 <luke-jr> since the microcontroller presumably can know how long to wait
783 2011-12-10 14:36:36 <makomk> Diablo-D3: They didn't want to put in the development work for whatever reason. It has an Ethernet MAC and enough RAM to run a TCP/IP stack, wouldn't need much in the way of extra parts.
784 2011-12-10 14:37:28 <Diablo-D3> makomk: does the board have the pins out somewhere though?
785 2011-12-10 14:37:35 <Diablo-D3> like, on a solderable header or something
786 2011-12-10 14:38:07 <makomk> Almost certainly not.
787 2011-12-10 14:38:12 <Diablo-D3> damn
788 2011-12-10 14:38:28 <Diablo-D3> because if they do, you can get a PHY (most likely doesnt have one) and jerry rig it all
789 2011-12-10 14:38:52 <luke-jr> makomk: strangely, it sounds like nobody else will be able to do development work either
790 2011-12-10 14:39:08 <luke-jr> they hinted at only being able to flash encrypted firmware on it
791 2011-12-10 14:40:14 <makomk> Wouldn't surprise me.
792 2011-12-10 14:43:02 <batouzo> Diablo-D3: nothing, I just ment amd's drivers are shit
793 2011-12-10 14:43:50 <batouzo> as everyone moving mouse to right of screen on 5970 knows (actually that one is more hardware bug, so instead just switch video modes on binary driver)
794 2011-12-10 14:48:11 <Eliel> batouzo: hm? you mean that's a driver bug?
795 2011-12-10 14:48:55 <etotheipi_> Diablo-D3, have you ever programmed in CUDA?   (I was just reading your link)
796 2011-12-10 14:49:34 <batouzo> Eliel: the broken mouse pointer is more of hardware bug. Most other crashes/freezes seem to be the driver.
797 2011-12-10 14:49:46 <Eliel> I'm using synergy for sharing the keyboard and mouse on this system with one another (on the right side) and sometimes when I move the mouse back, the screen is unresponsive for a moment.
798 2011-12-10 14:50:04 <Eliel> it only seems to happen if I move the mouse through lower right corner of the screen
799 2011-12-10 14:50:21 <Eliel> also seems to happen when I'm using the web browser and want to grab the scrollbar.
800 2011-12-10 14:50:30 <batouzo> Eliel: if you have 5970 model, then moving mouse cursor there will change it into a random image. and sometimes crash the box
801 2011-12-10 14:50:43 <Eliel> my system has 5850 though
802 2011-12-10 14:51:01 <Eliel> mouse cursor doesn't change but it does do other not nice stuff.
803 2011-12-10 14:51:15 <batouzo> someone afair said similar bug existed also in other models. can be that. dunno
804 2011-12-10 14:51:47 <Eliel> like hanging for a moment, sometimes it results in the mouse cursor starting to shake wildly while nothing else works (that means a reboot is needed)
805 2011-12-10 14:52:19 <batouzo> Eliel: yes, the shaking-mouse-computer-frozen is the trademark. So you have the same bug despite not owning 5970. Congratulations.
806 2011-12-10 14:52:37 <Eliel> actually, that happens with 5770 too.
807 2011-12-10 14:52:48 <batouzo> this is exactly why nvidias are winning for gamers (that, and PR)
808 2011-12-10 14:53:02 <batouzo> Eliel: afair its fixed in 6xxx
809 2011-12-10 14:53:52 <Eliel> right-clicking sometimes causes the mouse shaking too but that's usually fixable by right clicking again.
810 2011-12-10 14:55:35 <Eliel> but I was nvidia-only person for quite a few years, until I discovered bitcoin.
811 2011-12-10 14:55:55 <Eliel> I used to be ati-only but I got enough of the bad drivers eventually.
812 2011-12-10 14:59:42 <luke-jr> makomk: I'm trying to argue that even if they won't release their own code, we do have a legal right to reverse-engineer and make our own. Hopefully they might give in. ;)
813 2011-12-10 15:00:02 <ExeciN> can the original bitcoin client mine?
814 2011-12-10 15:00:13 <luke-jr> ExeciN: only for testing purposes
815 2011-12-10 15:00:32 <luke-jr> ExeciN: I have a fork that can mine on the main network, and via the GUI
816 2011-12-10 15:00:58 <luke-jr> (the original client used to have a wxWidgets GUI, but that was removed)
817 2011-12-10 15:01:17 <ExeciN> I don't really need it to mine. I just want to make sure I don't waste cpu
818 2011-12-10 15:03:44 <luke-jr> ExeciN: pass -gen=0 to force it off
819 2011-12-10 15:04:06 <ExeciN> luke-jr: thanks
820 2011-12-10 15:07:22 <ExeciN> a little tip for Mac users: open /Applications/Bitcoin-Qt.app --args -gen=0
821 2011-12-10 15:15:58 <etotheipi_> can someone *please* mine 1 block on the testnet network?  Surely someone is already set up to do this
822 2011-12-10 15:16:20 <etotheipi_> I just need to get my tx into the blockchain so can start testing my client/software
823 2011-12-10 15:16:41 <etotheipi_> I've waited more than 12 hours...
824 2011-12-10 15:17:29 <makomk> etotheipi_: I think everyone uses testnet-in-a-box now, testnet's been unusuable for a while.
825 2011-12-10 15:19:53 <etotheipi_> I seriously just need to get my tx into the blockchain and I'll be set for weeks
826 2011-12-10 15:21:23 <etotheipi_> testnet has a lot of fantastic non-std transactions (which I need to test), so I will be using it regardless
827 2011-12-10 15:21:35 <etotheipi_> but I really just need one block... I'll pay 0.2 BTC :)
828 2011-12-10 15:21:40 <etotheipi_> well two blocks...
829 2011-12-10 15:27:11 <Davincij15> Hi I get an error comiling bitcoind on release 0.5.0 on the same computer I compile previous versions is there new dependancies that I need to download?
830 2011-12-10 15:27:33 <Davincij15> I get
831 2011-12-10 15:27:37 <Davincij15> net.cpp: In function ??void ThreadMapPort2(void*)??:
832 2011-12-10 15:28:05 <Davincij15> and
833 2011-12-10 15:28:10 <Davincij15> net.cpp:1151:77: error: too many arguments to function ??int UPNP_AddPortMapping(const char*, const char*, const char*, const char*, const char*, const char*, const char*, const char*)??
834 2011-12-10 15:29:41 <BlueMatt> etotheipi_: have you asked gmaxwell?
835 2011-12-10 15:29:57 <BlueMatt> Davincij15: you need to update your copy of miniupnpc
836 2011-12-10 15:32:19 <Davincij15> BlueMatt: thanks for the info
837 2011-12-10 15:34:09 <diki> I wondered why Google have a free DNS, then I understood why
838 2011-12-10 15:34:15 <diki> So they can track you...wherever
839 2011-12-10 15:34:25 <diki> they track which website you visit etc
840 2011-12-10 15:34:59 <BlueMatt> if google is trying to log dns queries, they are crazy
841 2011-12-10 15:35:15 <diki> I don't think it's not hard for them
842 2011-12-10 15:35:16 <BlueMatt> also, you cant link the dns queries to an individual computer in a household, all you have is an ip
843 2011-12-10 15:35:29 <BlueMatt> diki: double negative -> so you agree with me?
844 2011-12-10 15:35:30 <diki> that IP is me
845 2011-12-10 15:35:50 <BlueMatt> is that request for the user logged in on the desktop, or the laptop?
846 2011-12-10 15:35:53 <diki> And google analytics does
847 2011-12-10 15:36:04 <diki> They log what OS visits a website
848 2011-12-10 15:36:11 <diki> what browser...when they compare the results
849 2011-12-10 15:36:16 <BlueMatt> yea, analytics is easy
850 2011-12-10 15:36:20 <diki> they would see I have two computers in my home
851 2011-12-10 15:36:22 <BlueMatt> they get an http request
852 2011-12-10 15:36:25 <diki> and am sharing the internet
853 2011-12-10 15:36:27 <BlueMatt> for dns they dont
854 2011-12-10 15:36:53 <diki> they can only log the domain I am visiting
855 2011-12-10 15:37:08 <diki> that is enough for them to show me search results specific to my request
856 2011-12-10 15:37:10 <BlueMatt> they cant though, they know ip probably connected to domain
857 2011-12-10 15:37:12 <diki> As in, even more than before
858 2011-12-10 15:37:17 <BlueMatt> not computer probably connected to domain
859 2011-12-10 15:39:29 <BlueMatt> also, see http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy.html
860 2011-12-10 15:39:42 <Davincij15> bluematt: I am having trouble updating miniupnpc, I tried apt-get update;apt-get upgrade I also tried apt-get install miniupnpc
861 2011-12-10 15:39:50 <diki> Google Games...does not seem impossible considering google buying a lot of small or big companies
862 2011-12-10 15:40:13 <BlueMatt> Davincij15: for miniupnpc you are either going to have to get it manually, or grab the deb from the ubuntu ppa linked at bitcoin.org
863 2011-12-10 15:41:23 <diki> BlueMatt:It states right there, they log quite a bit more than what I imagined.
864 2011-12-10 15:41:27 <Davincij15> BlueMatt: thanks I am not a linux dude so this stuff is hard for me I wish there was a binary I could download for Natty Ubuntu
865 2011-12-10 15:41:51 <BlueMatt> Davincij15: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin; sudo apt-get install miniupnpc8-dev
866 2011-12-10 15:41:53 <BlueMatt> (IIRC)
867 2011-12-10 15:42:31 <BlueMatt> no, it should be libminiupnpc8-dev
868 2011-12-10 15:43:07 <diki> luke-jr:newer=better?
869 2011-12-10 15:43:10 <BlueMatt> because they changed their API and there is no good way to do #if MINIUPNPC_VERSION> X (well that is what someone told me)
870 2011-12-10 15:43:21 <BlueMatt> I never bothered to double-check, but whoever it was was reasonable iirc
871 2011-12-10 15:43:24 <luke-jr> diki: not always
872 2011-12-10 15:43:30 <diki> I agree on that a bit
873 2011-12-10 15:43:36 <BlueMatt> also, there are updates in newer versions that add compatibility with some routers
874 2011-12-10 15:43:50 <diki> Some devices or stuff we use have short life, not due to wearing them out
875 2011-12-10 15:43:55 <BlueMatt> diki: you realize that that privacy page pretty much states that everything you said earlier was wrong?
876 2011-12-10 15:44:07 <diki> BlueMatt:They log which domain i request
877 2011-12-10 15:44:10 <Davincij15> blueMatt: thanks I will try that there are issues with your command because it linux nothing works as out of the box.
878 2011-12-10 15:44:15 <BlueMatt> diki: they log some shit, but dont link it to you
879 2011-12-10 15:44:36 <BlueMatt> Davincij15: on Ubuntu, that command should work out of the box
880 2011-12-10 15:44:44 <ThomasV> hello; does getmemorypool return low priority transactions?
881 2011-12-10 15:44:55 <BlueMatt> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin; sudo apt-get install libminiupnpc8-dev
882 2011-12-10 15:45:08 <Davincij15> BlueMatt: it does not it requiers other items installed
883 2011-12-10 15:46:06 <diki> BlueMatt:You do realize they can lie just as Carrier IQ lied they log people
884 2011-12-10 15:46:10 <BlueMatt> Davincij15: on any desktop natty system, typing that followed by your password and y will install libminiupnpc8-dev and libminiupnpc8 allowing you to build the latest bitcoin
885 2011-12-10 15:46:20 <BlueMatt> diki: CIQ didnt lie...
886 2011-12-10 15:46:29 <BlueMatt> diki: they were very upfront and clear
887 2011-12-10 15:46:29 <Davincij15> BlueMatt: I got apt-add-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin to work but the command apt-get install libminiupnpc8-dev returned unable to locate package
888 2011-12-10 15:46:42 <BlueMatt> Davincij15: oh, my bad add a sudo apt-get update in between there