1 2011-12-13 00:44:34 <batouzo> found a bug in Radeon driver in 3.1.4 causing memory corruption. you jelly?
  2 2011-12-13 01:20:15 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r4a3b73747ea6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): big_number block_work(bits) http://tinyurl.com/d89j5ce
  3 2011-12-13 01:55:39 <xenland> Ello mates. Anyone have issues with installing Bitcoin on Angstrom or shall I except it to be pretty easy?
  4 2011-12-13 01:55:46 <xenland> epect*
  5 2011-12-13 01:55:48 <xenland> expect*
  6 2011-12-13 01:55:56 <BlueMatt> Angstrom???
  7 2011-12-13 01:56:14 <luke-jr> xenland: Angstrom still around?
  8 2011-12-13 01:56:15 <xenland> Angstrom Linux for Emedded devices like for cellphones and similar chips
  9 2011-12-13 01:56:17 <BlueMatt> I'd highly doubt anyone has installed bitcoin on that...
 10 2011-12-13 01:56:29 <xenland> Interesting
 11 2011-12-13 01:56:49 <luke-jr> xenland: anyhow, I expect bitcoind would just work for ARM and nothing else, and Bitcoin-Qt and wxBitcoin might be more complex
 12 2011-12-13 01:57:02 <luke-jr> in any case, running a Bitcoin node on a phone is stupid
 13 2011-12-13 01:57:12 <xenland> BeagleBone
 14 2011-12-13 01:57:18 <xenland> not phone
 15 2011-12-13 01:57:23 <xenland> I'm just doing it for fun
 16 2011-12-13 01:57:34 <luke-jr> I've tested Bitcoin-Qt on my Nokia N900 handheld
 17 2011-12-13 01:57:48 <xenland> And?
 18 2011-12-13 01:57:59 <luke-jr> more or less works
 19 2011-12-13 01:58:22 <xenland> oh thats the same processor wikipedia says. Cool.
 20 2011-12-13 01:58:27 <xenland> My idea is to run Bitcoind daemon
 21 2011-12-13 01:58:37 <xenland> and then interface with RPC protocal or somthing similar
 22 2011-12-13 01:58:55 <xenland> I plan on doing something big with the beaglboard unbitcoin related but would also be cool if Bitcoin could run on it
 23 2011-12-13 01:59:25 <xenland> --------
 24 2011-12-13 01:59:34 <xenland> More or less works probubly slow on GUI
 25 2011-12-13 01:59:37 <xenland> albet
 26 2011-12-13 02:11:42 <lianj> xenland: it works on arm. had it running on a dockstar (for fun)
 27 2011-12-13 02:12:12 <luke-jr> I think it probably only works in LE mode
 28 2011-12-13 02:14:35 <xenland> le mode. Never heard of it
 29 2011-12-13 02:15:07 <lianj> little endian
 30 2011-12-13 02:15:30 <xenland> is like that a compile option?
 31 2011-12-13 02:16:45 <lianj> no, its about the cpu
 32 2011-12-13 02:55:54 <xenland> good to know
 33 2011-12-13 03:35:27 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various * rfc7dd3..472037 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/GPG/helperscripts/bitcoin-otc-gpg-eauth-mirc.mrc: (8 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7y8oo2e
 34 2011-12-13 04:25:05 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * ref36104b89a0 gentoo/net-p2p/ (4 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoind and net-p2p/wxbitcoin: remove useless myP var http://tinyurl.com/d7hnroy
 35 2011-12-13 04:25:09 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rfc748d9370dd gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoind/ (4 files): net-p2p/bitcoind: 0.4.2_rc1, 0.5.0.1_rc1, and 0.5.1_rc1 http://tinyurl.com/cjhh5y9
 36 2011-12-13 04:25:12 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rad94e37c3f04 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin-qt/ (3 files): net-p2p/bitcoin-qt: 0.5.0.1_rc1 and 0.5.1_rc1 http://tinyurl.com/c6m3kpo
 37 2011-12-13 04:40:11 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r308e8e404b55 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoind/ (4 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoind: fix 0.4.2_rc1 and 9999 http://tinyurl.com/7uvc6rv
 38 2011-12-13 04:54:09 <xenland> I'm trying to compile Bitcoin on a ARM processor I've been told I can some how compile on my native computer and then move the binary files over. But how to i tell the compiler I want it to be angstrom?
 39 2011-12-13 04:54:24 <xenland> (ARM processor is taking hours to compile)
 40 2011-12-13 04:54:41 <xenland> Just for prereq too
 41 2011-12-13 04:55:59 <luke-jr> xenland: bah, coward :P
 42 2011-12-13 04:56:16 <tcatm> that's called cross compiling. usually you need to setup a "toolchain" for your target
 43 2011-12-13 04:56:29 <xenland> Hmm I'll look up toolchain. Thanks!
 44 2011-12-13 04:56:34 <luke-jr> in the case of Angstrom, it's called OpenEmbedded
 45 2011-12-13 04:56:58 <luke-jr> you can try http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/gentoo-n900/packages/hardfp/gcc45/net-p2p/bitcoin-qt-0.5.0.tbz2 if you want :P
 46 2011-12-13 04:57:04 <luke-jr> looks like I didn't do bitcoind yet
 47 2011-12-13 04:57:30 <luke-jr> dunno if Angstrom used hardfloat yet tho
 48 2011-12-13 04:57:54 <xenland> not sure either
 49 2011-12-13 04:58:06 <xenland> with this toolchain. Will i have to manually setup symlinks?
 50 2011-12-13 04:58:17 <xenland> For instance. Boost is taking sooo long to compile
 51 2011-12-13 04:58:36 <luke-jr> xenland: to cross-compile with OE, you basically need to compile *everything* from scratch on your desktop
 52 2011-12-13 04:58:58 <xenland> okay that answers what i was just about to ask aswell too
 53 2011-12-13 04:58:59 <luke-jr> and write fancy scripts to compile bitcoind for you
 54 2011-12-13 04:59:05 <tcatm> you could rent a fast EC2 instance :)
 55 2011-12-13 04:59:29 <luke-jr> tcatm: OE is extremely memory and disk hungry ofc
 56 2011-12-13 04:59:32 <xenland> @tcatm its the processor it self. I have a super fast i7core that could compile everything in an hour
 57 2011-12-13 04:59:54 <luke-jr> xenland: I run Gentoo on my N900 and desktop, and use distcc
 58 2011-12-13 04:59:54 <xenland> the arm processor is just taking for ever just for one prereq.... sigh
 59 2011-12-13 05:00:10 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * r0317358d652b gentoo/net-p2p/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into maintree http://tinyurl.com/88tqnxz
 60 2011-12-13 05:01:13 <xenland> I dunno if i should venture off into to toolchaining sounds like it will take me longer to learn how to set that up then it will to just let the arm compiler do its thing. But I'll keep toolchain compiling in mind if I get any more anxious
 61 2011-12-13 05:02:50 <xenland> thanks for pointing me in the correct direction tho thanks mates. I'll be researching this for sure
 62 2011-12-13 05:03:16 <tcatm> you could also get a fast ARM multicore cpu :)
 63 2011-12-13 05:04:06 <luke-jr> tcatm: not the same ARM :P
 64 2011-12-13 05:06:54 <tcatm> that's not a huge problem if you set the compiler flags right
 65 2011-12-13 05:12:02 <luke-jr> well, the compiler for a dual-core ARM isn't going to be the right one for a single-core ARM
 66 2011-12-13 05:12:06 <luke-jr> you'd need a cross-compiler
 67 2011-12-13 05:12:35 <luke-jr> (not because of the core count difference, but because of the instruction differences)
 68 2011-12-13 05:13:33 <xenland> haha
 69 2011-12-13 05:13:43 <xenland> I'll just wait.... for it to compile and then save the image
 70 2011-12-13 05:18:12 <luke-jr> xenland: just build a bitcoind-0.5.1_rc1 for you
 71 2011-12-13 05:18:21 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/gentoo-n900/packages/hardfp/gcc45/net-p2p/bitcoind-0.5.1_rc1.tbz2
 72 2011-12-13 05:18:57 <luke-jr> hold
 73 2011-12-13 05:18:58 <xenland> wha?
 74 2011-12-13 05:19:01 <xenland> I'll try it out
 75 2011-12-13 05:19:02 <xenland> thanks
 76 2011-12-13 05:19:11 <luke-jr> it's still uploading
 77 2011-12-13 05:19:15 <xenland> okay
 78 2011-12-13 05:19:19 <luke-jr> you'll need boost stuff ofc
 79 2011-12-13 05:19:28 <luke-jr> should be able to find it in the same dir structure
 80 2011-12-13 05:20:07 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r7ae914f6aab2 gentoo/net-p2p/ (8 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoin{-qt,d}: add ~arm keyword to 0.5* http://tinyurl.com/c6tn8p9
 81 2011-12-13 05:20:24 <xenland> So I should just let Boost compile and install.
 82 2011-12-13 05:20:37 <xenland> and then after that try using your Bitcoin client from their?
 83 2011-12-13 05:21:34 <luke-jr> if you want
 84 2011-12-13 05:21:38 <luke-jr> or grab my boost from there too
 85 2011-12-13 05:21:47 <luke-jr> but no guarantees these binaries are compatible
 86 2011-12-13 05:21:55 <luke-jr> they're build with GCC 4.5 and hardfloat
 87 2011-12-13 05:24:42 <xenland> awsome
 88 2011-12-13 05:24:45 <xenland> I'll see what happens
 89 2011-12-13 07:46:00 <midnightmagic> is anyone still running an addnode group of feeless/special txn mining? i want to join it.
 90 2011-12-13 10:20:32 <graingert> is there a tool, similar to firesheep that automatically replaces bitcoin addresses sent in the clear with generated client ones?
 91 2011-12-13 10:20:51 <graingert> I know it's possible - just wondering if anyone's done it
 92 2011-12-13 11:03:42 <SomeoneWeird> 0_O
 93 2011-12-13 11:36:23 <neo2> hi
 94 2011-12-13 11:36:28 <neo2> so, how's the "Hash 160" different from the BTC Address?
 95 2011-12-13 11:37:41 <cjdelisle> IIRC the btc address is the base58 of the hash160 (which is the ripmd160 of the sha256 of the key)
 96 2011-12-13 11:37:51 <Diablo-D3> iirc btc addresses, the kind me and you use, are base 58 textual representations of the real ripmed160 signature
 97 2011-12-13 11:38:51 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: and no
 98 2011-12-13 11:39:11 <Diablo-D3> I think the ripmed160 signature is of the edcda key
 99 2011-12-13 11:39:31 <Diablo-D3> and Im pretty sure I spelled that wrong
100 2011-12-13 11:39:38 <Diablo-D3> ecdsa
101 2011-12-13 11:39:44 <Diablo-D3> elliptic curve dca
102 2011-12-13 11:39:44 <upb> RIP MED
103 2011-12-13 11:39:49 <Diablo-D3> er dsa
104 2011-12-13 11:40:00 <upb> its RIPE-MD
105 2011-12-13 11:40:03 <Diablo-D3> see, this is what happens when you have insufficient caffeine, people
106 2011-12-13 11:40:03 <upb> message digest
107 2011-12-13 11:40:31 <Diablo-D3> upb: heh, my keyboard loves to move keys out of order.
108 2011-12-13 11:40:34 <Diablo-D3> its hilarious.
109 2011-12-13 11:40:56 <Diablo-D3> laptop keyboard doesnt do it, no other keyboard Ive ever owned does it
110 2011-12-13 11:40:58 <Diablo-D3> just this one
111 2011-12-13 11:41:08 <Diablo-D3> I suspect the keyboard goes on binge drinking when Im not looking
112 2011-12-13 11:41:28 <JZavala> i like my laptop keyboard
113 2011-12-13 11:41:44 <JZavala> then again i'm happy with just about any new keyboard
114 2011-12-13 11:41:44 <upb> its your fingers, not the kbd
115 2011-12-13 11:41:51 <Diablo-D3> upb: dude, its the keyboard
116 2011-12-13 11:41:59 <Diablo-D3> sometimes even half the keys wont work until I hotplug it
117 2011-12-13 11:42:00 <upb> or when you memorise the abbrevation not the concept
118 2011-12-13 11:42:02 <JZavala> lol
119 2011-12-13 11:42:12 <Diablo-D3> especially after a few hours of quake
120 2011-12-13 11:42:20 <JZavala> quake...
121 2011-12-13 11:42:23 <Diablo-D3> or it forgets to how to hold keys down
122 2011-12-13 11:42:49 <Diablo-D3> seriously, this is the most retarded keyboard ever
123 2011-12-13 11:43:08 <JZavala> how old is this keyboard?
124 2011-12-13 11:43:12 <JZavala> who makes it?
125 2011-12-13 11:43:13 <Diablo-D3> like 2 years
126 2011-12-13 11:43:17 <Diablo-D3> its a razer, I hate razers
127 2011-12-13 11:43:17 <JZavala> please tell me its logitech
128 2011-12-13 11:43:20 <Diablo-D3> so goddamned much
129 2011-12-13 11:43:20 <JZavala> oh razer
130 2011-12-13 11:43:22 <JZavala> lol yeah
131 2011-12-13 11:43:27 <JZavala> i bought a steelseries
132 2011-12-13 11:43:30 <Diablo-D3> people are like HEY DIABLO BUY ONE
133 2011-12-13 11:43:33 <Diablo-D3> and Im like, dude it sucks
134 2011-12-13 11:43:33 <JZavala> fucking love that thing for a desktop keyboard
135 2011-12-13 11:43:38 <Diablo-D3> BUT ITS ONLY $20 NORMALLY $85
136 2011-12-13 11:43:39 <Diablo-D3> so I tried
137 2011-12-13 11:43:41 <Diablo-D3> I HATE IT
138 2011-12-13 11:43:43 <JZavala> lol
139 2011-12-13 11:43:48 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: btw steelseries is screwed up
140 2011-12-13 11:43:51 <JZavala> too late to sell it now
141 2011-12-13 11:43:55 <JZavala> how so?
142 2011-12-13 11:44:09 <Diablo-D3> pbt keys, often plate mounted switches, usually cherry mx switches, depends on which model...
143 2011-12-13 11:44:14 <Diablo-D3> but they laser etch keys.
144 2011-12-13 11:44:25 <JZavala> doesnt matter ot me
145 2011-12-13 11:44:27 <Diablo-D3> WHY GO TO ALL THAT TROUBLE AND THEN LASER ETCH THEM
146 2011-12-13 11:44:32 <JZavala> i've used those "mechanical" keyboards
147 2011-12-13 11:44:36 <JZavala> back in the dya
148 2011-12-13 11:44:37 <JZavala> day*
149 2011-12-13 11:44:46 <Diablo-D3> dye sublimate or double inject you bastards!
150 2011-12-13 11:44:46 <JZavala> back on atari's and old macs and old pc's
151 2011-12-13 11:44:53 <JZavala> give me the new ones any da
152 2011-12-13 11:44:54 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: cherry mx are mechanical switches too
153 2011-12-13 11:44:55 <JZavala> day*
154 2011-12-13 11:45:10 <Diablo-D3> so are alps switches
155 2011-12-13 11:45:20 <Diablo-D3> theres only one good keyboard on the market
156 2011-12-13 11:45:36 <JZavala> newp,  give any new keyboard
157 2011-12-13 11:45:41 <Diablo-D3> pbt keycaps, plate mounted ibm mechanical switches, dye sublimated lettering.... unicomp makes em
158 2011-12-13 11:45:47 <JZavala> i'll be happy compared to those old shitty keyboards i hated so much
159 2011-12-13 11:45:53 <Diablo-D3> the original, yet brand new, model ms.
160 2011-12-13 11:46:04 <Diablo-D3> their spacesaver is like $75 or some shit
161 2011-12-13 11:46:12 <JZavala> i dont get people who spend like
162 2011-12-13 11:46:16 <JZavala> more than 40 on a keyboard
163 2011-12-13 11:46:17 <JZavala> its stupid
164 2011-12-13 11:46:26 <Diablo-D3> when they last 20 years? not so stupid.
165 2011-12-13 11:46:31 <JZavala> i remember buying a "thin" keyboard back in the day
166 2011-12-13 11:46:36 <JZavala> god i loved it
167 2011-12-13 11:46:40 <JZavala> quiet, fast, easy to use
168 2011-12-13 11:46:48 <JZavala> comfortable too
169 2011-12-13 11:46:56 <JZavala> nobody makes it anymore either
170 2011-12-13 11:46:57 <Diablo-D3> the only alternatives is a deck legend, pbt, plate mounted, dye sublimated, and uses cherry mx switches... $150 or some shit
171 2011-12-13 11:47:00 <JZavala> *sadface*
172 2011-12-13 11:47:13 <Diablo-D3> or a kenesis advantage, $300.
173 2011-12-13 11:47:20 <Diablo-D3> and before you say ZOMG $300, go look at it first
174 2011-12-13 11:47:30 <Diablo-D3> its one of those hypertyping ones
175 2011-12-13 11:47:43 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure if it qualifies as a keyboard anymore
176 2011-12-13 11:47:48 <Diablo-D3> sure, it has keys, and you can type things with it
177 2011-12-13 11:48:08 <Diablo-D3> but its a prop from a scifi movie
178 2011-12-13 11:48:20 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: seriously though
179 2011-12-13 11:48:23 <Diablo-D3> every keyboard almost gets it right
180 2011-12-13 11:48:25 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: have you ever tried topre?
181 2011-12-13 11:48:30 <Diablo-D3> topre switches are fine
182 2011-12-13 11:48:35 <Diablo-D3> but theres very few keyboards that use it
183 2011-12-13 11:48:39 <Diablo-D3> like, happy hackers use them
184 2011-12-13 11:48:47 <JZavala> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823701033
185 2011-12-13 11:48:50 <JZavala> it was kinda like that
186 2011-12-13 11:48:53 <OneFixt> yeah, i'm using a realforce
187 2011-12-13 11:48:54 <Diablo-D3> happy hackers unfortunately are pcb mounted switches
188 2011-12-13 11:48:56 <JZavala> but it had a seperate arrow and numpad
189 2011-12-13 11:48:58 <OneFixt> and am very happy with it
190 2011-12-13 11:49:00 <Diablo-D3> which means they can easily bust off
191 2011-12-13 11:49:00 <JZavala> and two usb ports on the sides
192 2011-12-13 11:49:04 <JZavala> god i loved that thing
193 2011-12-13 11:49:08 <neo2> cjdelisle, thanks
194 2011-12-13 11:49:14 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: heh, thats the size of a happy hacker
195 2011-12-13 11:49:29 <Diablo-D3> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400b
196 2011-12-13 11:49:57 <Diablo-D3> pbt keys, topre switches, dye sublimated on the key caps that have lettering (most people buy these blank)
197 2011-12-13 11:50:04 <Diablo-D3> but they arent plate mounted due to the keyboard size
198 2011-12-13 11:50:35 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, for switches, cherry mx browns, ibm mechanical switches, alps blacks, topres, they're all great switches for hackers
199 2011-12-13 11:50:43 <Diablo-D3> very comfortable to use
200 2011-12-13 11:51:04 <JZavala> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823166101
201 2011-12-13 11:51:11 <JZavala> this would have to be the most similar
202 2011-12-13 11:51:12 <Diablo-D3> alps whites, cherry mx red/blacks, etc are good gamer keys
203 2011-12-13 11:51:33 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: if its only $25, its a dome switch
204 2011-12-13 11:51:35 <Diablo-D3> HATE dome switches
205 2011-12-13 11:51:45 <Diablo-D3> this racer I own now is dome switches, and I know damned well Im frying it
206 2011-12-13 11:51:46 <OneFixt> i can't even look at those any more without feeling pain
207 2011-12-13 11:51:52 <Diablo-D3> er, razer
208 2011-12-13 11:51:59 <cjdelisle> neo2: listen to what Diablo-D3 says, not what I say, I have not read that specific code so I'm guessing.
209 2011-12-13 11:52:00 <Diablo-D3> I opened it up the other day to clean it
210 2011-12-13 11:52:01 <JZavala> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823330012
211 2011-12-13 11:52:07 <JZavala> if only this thing was in black
212 2011-12-13 11:52:15 <JZavala> i dont care about dome switch or mechanical
213 2011-12-13 11:52:21 <Diablo-D3> the dome .. uh... pad
214 2011-12-13 11:52:23 <Diablo-D3> is wearing out
215 2011-12-13 11:52:28 <Diablo-D3> especially near wasd
216 2011-12-13 11:52:31 <JZavala> i want a good, reliable keyboad that will work for 2 maybe 3 years
217 2011-12-13 11:52:32 <Diablo-D3> theres cracks in the rubber mat
218 2011-12-13 11:52:40 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: dome switches arent reliable
219 2011-12-13 11:52:42 <Diablo-D3> thats the problem
220 2011-12-13 11:52:42 <OneFixt> then you want mechanical
221 2011-12-13 11:52:46 <JZavala> no,  works fine for me
222 2011-12-13 11:52:55 <Diablo-D3> a unicomp will last 20-30 years
223 2011-12-13 11:53:02 <Diablo-D3> I know people who have original 70s model Ms
224 2011-12-13 11:53:03 <JZavala> i havent had any issues with any other keyboards.  until the point when i wore them down so badly through use
225 2011-12-13 11:53:04 <JZavala> liek
226 2011-12-13 11:53:12 <Diablo-D3> they have AT plug -> usb plug converters
227 2011-12-13 11:53:15 <JZavala> seriously, so much typing
228 2011-12-13 11:53:20 <JZavala> all the letters were gone
229 2011-12-13 11:53:24 <JZavala> only numbers remained
230 2011-12-13 11:53:25 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: see
231 2011-12-13 11:53:28 <JZavala> and they were all smooth
232 2011-12-13 11:53:32 <Diablo-D3> thats why pad printing and laser etching is wrong
233 2011-12-13 11:53:34 <JZavala> this was a cheap keyboard
234 2011-12-13 11:53:38 <Diablo-D3> I never buy them
235 2011-12-13 11:53:40 <JZavala> i dont mind it though
236 2011-12-13 11:53:41 <Diablo-D3> I cant stand pad printing
237 2011-12-13 11:53:44 <JZavala> i know what keys i'm hitting
238 2011-12-13 11:53:45 <Diablo-D3> it feels like the keyboard is dirty
239 2011-12-13 11:53:51 <Diablo-D3> its a fucking decal
240 2011-12-13 11:53:56 <Diablo-D3> you can feel it
241 2011-12-13 11:53:58 <Diablo-D3> its ick
242 2011-12-13 11:54:04 <JZavala> do you NEED to see what each letter is?
243 2011-12-13 11:54:07 <Diablo-D3> no
244 2011-12-13 11:54:13 <Diablo-D3> but I dont want to feel it either
245 2011-12-13 11:54:13 <JZavala> whats the point in having them there then lol
246 2011-12-13 11:54:16 <Diablo-D3> well, sure
247 2011-12-13 11:54:17 <JZavala> even my mom can ues home row
248 2011-12-13 11:54:18 <Diablo-D3> blank is fine too
249 2011-12-13 11:54:26 <Diablo-D3> but its hard to get blank keys
250 2011-12-13 11:54:41 <Diablo-D3> like unicomp doesnt sell a blank set
251 2011-12-13 11:54:57 <Diablo-D3> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net//en104bl.html
252 2011-12-13 11:55:10 <Diablo-D3> its really hard to beat that keyboard
253 2011-12-13 11:55:22 <Diablo-D3> its made in the same factory thats made ibm mechanical keys since the 70s
254 2011-12-13 11:55:23 <JZavala> personally i'm not concerned,  most keyboards work long enough that i'm not worried when they die
255 2011-12-13 11:55:26 <JZavala> and kinda want something new
256 2011-12-13 11:55:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but once you've typed on a good keyboard
257 2011-12-13 11:55:38 <Diablo-D3> youc ant go back
258 2011-12-13 11:55:47 <JZavala> i also like being able to dissasemble it
259 2011-12-13 11:55:49 <JZavala> and clean it easily
260 2011-12-13 11:55:55 <Diablo-D3> you can replace switches on ibm model ms
261 2011-12-13 11:55:56 <OneFixt> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce&pid=rf_se02b0
262 2011-12-13 11:55:59 <OneFixt> the one i have
263 2011-12-13 11:56:05 <JZavala> dont want to spend money to replace stuff
264 2011-12-13 11:56:15 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: you can get switches for like 50 cents
265 2011-12-13 11:56:15 <JFK911> too bad the model m has the worst ergonomics
266 2011-12-13 11:56:15 <JZavala> individual switches i mean
267 2011-12-13 11:56:15 <OneFixt> keys are black, so very discreet
268 2011-12-13 11:56:24 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: no it doesnt
269 2011-12-13 11:56:26 <JZavala> lolwat
270 2011-12-13 11:56:27 <Diablo-D3> its perfect
271 2011-12-13 11:56:28 <JFK911> yes it does
272 2011-12-13 11:56:32 <JZavala> 260 bucks for a fucking keyboard?
273 2011-12-13 11:56:33 <JZavala> lolno
274 2011-12-13 11:56:36 <Diablo-D3> like, no more fucking hard dstop when you jam the key down
275 2011-12-13 11:56:42 <JFK911> see what you think in ten years Diablo-D3
276 2011-12-13 11:56:49 <JFK911> fact is it takes more force to push those than just about anything else
277 2011-12-13 11:57:00 <OneFixt> JZavala: worth every penny!
278 2011-12-13 11:57:07 <JFK911> you're going to wish for your hands to be cut off so you can get prosthetic hooks
279 2011-12-13 11:57:08 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: yeah, I think those are plate mounted
280 2011-12-13 11:57:31 <OneFixt> feels very solid indeed
281 2011-12-13 11:57:42 <OneFixt> variable-weighted keys, hands get a lot less tired
282 2011-12-13 11:57:43 <JZavala> lol
283 2011-12-13 11:57:50 <JZavala> my hands never get tired lol
284 2011-12-13 11:57:51 <OneFixt> and my typing speed went up just by using it
285 2011-12-13 11:57:52 <Diablo-D3> you know what I dont get?
286 2011-12-13 11:57:59 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck people use das keyboard
287 2011-12-13 11:57:59 <JFK911> less force is win
288 2011-12-13 11:58:08 <JFK911> cherry mx are nice is why
289 2011-12-13 11:58:13 <Diablo-D3> sure, they use cherry mxes, but the non-blank ones are laser etched
290 2011-12-13 11:58:21 <JFK911> they are stupid to pay das price tho
291 2011-12-13 11:58:26 <JZavala> i'd rather save up and buy the optimus whatever keyboard
292 2011-12-13 11:58:28 <Diablo-D3> although Ill give them that they're pbt keycaps and plate mounted
293 2011-12-13 11:58:30 <JZavala> made out of only OLED's
294 2011-12-13 11:58:32 <JZavala> lol*
295 2011-12-13 11:58:35 <Diablo-D3> JZavala: no
296 2011-12-13 11:58:37 <JFK911> optimus is very sad
297 2011-12-13 11:58:41 <Diablo-D3> they use cherry mls
298 2011-12-13 11:58:47 <JFK911> ML's are nice
299 2011-12-13 11:58:47 <JZavala> lol
300 2011-12-13 11:58:48 <Diablo-D3> low profile versions of the cherry mx, but they suck badly
301 2011-12-13 11:58:48 <JFK911> really?
302 2011-12-13 11:58:51 <Diablo-D3> have zero fucking travel
303 2011-12-13 11:58:52 <JZavala> looks neat
304 2011-12-13 11:58:55 <JZavala> i know someone who got one
305 2011-12-13 11:58:57 <JZavala> as a gift
306 2011-12-13 11:59:06 <JZavala> god it was beautiful
307 2011-12-13 11:59:07 <Diablo-D3> http://www.deckkeyboards.com/
308 2011-12-13 11:59:10 <Diablo-D3> deck legends are very nice
309 2011-12-13 11:59:15 <JZavala> know what
310 2011-12-13 11:59:22 <JZavala> he wasnt as anal as people are in here about keyboards either
311 2011-12-13 11:59:30 <JZavala> and he worked in the comm section of my unit
312 2011-12-13 11:59:35 <JZavala> only on computers too
313 2011-12-13 11:59:38 <Diablo-D3> pbt, cherry mx, plate mounted, double injected iirc
314 2011-12-13 11:59:39 <JZavala> at home and at work
315 2011-12-13 11:59:44 <JZavala> and he didnt care about keyboards lol
316 2011-12-13 11:59:46 <JFK911> you can find like new cherry mx on ebay that used to be part of cash registers
317 2011-12-13 11:59:50 <JFK911> very cheap
318 2011-12-13 12:00:02 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: yeah but you gotta make sure its the right one
319 2011-12-13 12:00:09 <JFK911> they have wear on the enter keys and numpad zero
320 2011-12-13 12:00:13 <JFK911> usually the guy will tell you
321 2011-12-13 12:00:22 <JFK911> the label says mx and the stem is black/white/brown
322 2011-12-13 12:00:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah but blacks arent the same as browns
323 2011-12-13 12:00:44 <Diablo-D3> browns are typist ones, blacks are gamer ones
324 2011-12-13 12:00:45 <JFK911> right, but you can find what you want and avoid blue
325 2011-12-13 12:00:49 <JFK911> blacks feel nice
326 2011-12-13 12:00:52 <JZavala> which makes me wonder
327 2011-12-13 12:00:54 <JFK911> for typing
328 2011-12-13 12:00:55 <JZavala> he was also a programmer
329 2011-12-13 12:01:02 <JZavala> so why are people so anal about keyboards
330 2011-12-13 12:01:04 <JFK911> wyse terminals were all black
331 2011-12-13 12:01:09 <JZavala> when people who do nothing but type all day every day
332 2011-12-13 12:01:11 <JZavala> dont usually care
333 2011-12-13 12:01:13 <Diablo-D3> blue sare weird
334 2011-12-13 12:01:30 <Diablo-D3> its like they tried to make a brown that was for people who use ibm ms
335 2011-12-13 12:01:31 <JFK911> wyse had some nice keycaps that made the blacks feel really nice tho
336 2011-12-13 12:02:04 <Diablo-D3> reds and blacks are clearly gaming switches though
337 2011-12-13 12:02:19 <Diablo-D3> give a korean a keyboard made of reds, he will rape even other koreans
338 2011-12-13 12:02:27 <Diablo-D3> zoomj
339 2011-12-13 12:02:28 <JFK911> maybe gamers like them best, i havent ever felt red ones
340 2011-12-13 12:02:39 <JFK911> but maybe you can try them out by using brown springs in black switches?
341 2011-12-13 12:02:46 <JFK911> i dont care enough to take that risk
342 2011-12-13 12:02:51 <Diablo-D3> well
343 2011-12-13 12:02:59 <Diablo-D3> browns are half way between blue and black
344 2011-12-13 12:03:11 <Diablo-D3> they're not linear, and they're kinda stiff
345 2011-12-13 12:03:28 <JFK911> seems to me browns have the same springs as blue
346 2011-12-13 12:03:31 <Diablo-D3> clears are stiffer browns, and blues have a mechanical click
347 2011-12-13 12:03:41 <Diablo-D3> blues and clears are supposed to be as stiff as each other
348 2011-12-13 12:03:57 <JFK911> clears and blacks have the same force
349 2011-12-13 12:04:03 <JFK911> the clear one has the bump that the brown one has
350 2011-12-13 12:04:16 <JFK911> anyway it looks white
351 2011-12-13 12:04:25 <Diablo-D3> yeah some call it grey too
352 2011-12-13 12:04:53 <Diablo-D3> I'd be happy with a keyboard full of browns though
353 2011-12-13 12:05:00 <JFK911> i think you would be too
354 2011-12-13 12:05:08 <JFK911> typing on that is like ZOOOOOOOOOOOOM
355 2011-12-13 12:05:22 <JFK911> no pain
356 2011-12-13 12:05:30 <Diablo-D3> deck legends come in two kinds
357 2011-12-13 12:05:31 <Diablo-D3> its lol
358 2011-12-13 12:05:54 <JFK911> seems the most available ones are filco but the legends rub off too easily
359 2011-12-13 12:06:04 <JFK911> cherry's laser feels like crap on black keys tho
360 2011-12-13 12:06:16 <Diablo-D3> cherry's own keyboards SUCK
361 2011-12-13 12:06:22 <Diablo-D3> they're abs keys and pcb mounted
362 2011-12-13 12:06:23 <JFK911> so you have to find a set of double shots
363 2011-12-13 12:06:27 <Diablo-D3> its like why the fuck bother
364 2011-12-13 12:06:29 <JFK911> nah no abs keys
365 2011-12-13 12:06:35 <JFK911> nothing wrong with the boards either
366 2011-12-13 12:06:36 <Diablo-D3> pretty sure they're not pbt
367 2011-12-13 12:06:38 <JFK911> never saw any flex
368 2011-12-13 12:06:42 <JFK911> one color is pbt
369 2011-12-13 12:06:50 <JFK911> the other color is smth else
370 2011-12-13 12:07:06 <Diablo-D3> huh, deck legend tactiles use clears
371 2011-12-13 12:07:14 <Diablo-D3> I thought they used browns
372 2011-12-13 12:07:14 <JFK911> ive got a bunch including plain mx8000
373 2011-12-13 12:07:27 <Diablo-D3> I mean, thats not a huge problem, clears would be fine too
374 2011-12-13 12:07:38 <JFK911> you've felt clears before?
375 2011-12-13 12:07:46 <JFK911> comparing clear and brown, most people choose brown
376 2011-12-13 12:07:49 <Diablo-D3> no, Ive heard them described though
377 2011-12-13 12:07:53 <Diablo-D3> they're stiffer browns
378 2011-12-13 12:08:03 <JFK911> bump is a bit more pronounced too
379 2011-12-13 12:10:58 <Diablo-D3> I imagine its not a huge change
380 2011-12-13 12:11:11 <Diablo-D3> they all have a much more comfortable travel
381 2011-12-13 12:11:17 <Diablo-D3> no more hard stop to key press
382 2011-12-13 12:14:03 <JFK911> well learning to not hit the bottom makes the whole experience so much better
383 2011-12-13 12:14:31 <JFK911> that takes some practice on browns tho
384 2011-12-13 12:14:58 <Diablo-D3> what I mean is
385 2011-12-13 12:15:07 <Diablo-D3> you cant do that on dome or scissor switches
386 2011-12-13 12:15:14 <Diablo-D3> the activation as at the bottom, period
387 2011-12-13 12:15:32 <JFK911> right
388 2011-12-13 13:23:35 <gavinandresen> Good morning everybody.  Anybody able to help sanity test 0.5.1rc1  ?
389 2011-12-13 13:23:47 <gavinandresen> https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.5.1/test/
390 2011-12-13 13:24:15 <gavinandresen> Help proofreading the release notes would be appreciated, too (README.txt at the above URL)
391 2011-12-13 13:27:06 <[Tycho]> Hello.
392 2011-12-13 13:27:24 <rasengan> gavinandresen: transations
393 2011-12-13 13:27:42 <rasengan> Paragraph 3 or 3rd sentence that is;o
394 2011-12-13 13:27:56 <gavinandresen> rasengan: thanks
395 2011-12-13 13:28:00 <rasengan> np
396 2011-12-13 13:28:09 <gavinandresen> Hmm, and the windows .exe is missing, and there are two osx dmgs....
397 2011-12-13 13:28:33 <rasengan> one is 2.3mb ;o
398 2011-12-13 13:30:41 <rasengan> the 2.3mb is invalid
399 2011-12-13 13:33:47 <wumpus> gavinandresen: release notes OK
400 2011-12-13 13:34:11 <Diablo-D3> HN mod time: mod this comment up: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347529
401 2011-12-13 13:34:24 <Diablo-D3> and mod this comment up: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3347520
402 2011-12-13 13:34:54 <wumpus> still trying to push bitcoin on hn?
403 2011-12-13 13:35:47 <Diablo-D3> no, its anti-microsoft today
404 2011-12-13 13:36:11 <rasengan> Whoever does the mac btc qt build - the "Please use a passphrase of 10 or more random characters .... " dialog box when encrypting wallet is cut off (eight or more w) <-- it gets cut off at the 'w'
405 2011-12-13 13:36:38 <Diablo-D3> I dont want people going around thinking Ximian is the perfect startup when they lied to every customer and microsoft was pulling the strings anyhow
406 2011-12-13 13:37:05 <upb> yeah, fucking M$
407 2011-12-13 13:37:12 <upb> M<b>$</b>
408 2011-12-13 13:37:22 <Diablo-D3> upb: needs a few underlines too
409 2011-12-13 13:37:25 <Diablo-D3> and maybe blink tags
410 2011-12-13 13:38:58 <[Tycho]> Well, at least removing GPL code is good thing.
411 2011-12-13 13:39:24 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: not when its Microsofted BSD
412 2011-12-13 13:39:50 <Diablo-D3> I support BSD legitimately, but not when people abuse it
413 2011-12-13 13:40:17 <Diablo-D3> This is why I rarely BSD my own code, too many companies wish to abuse what I've given to everyone.
414 2011-12-13 13:40:31 <wumpus> rasengan: so the message is not spread over muliple lines ?
415 2011-12-13 13:41:37 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: Mono has not legitimate purpose, its not a platform that people can use outside of the Microsoft ecosystem
416 2011-12-13 13:41:44 <Diablo-D3> it was designed, solely, as a patent attack on Linux
417 2011-12-13 13:41:54 <Diablo-D3> people think its open source when its BSD
418 2011-12-13 13:41:57 <Diablo-D3> but its not
419 2011-12-13 13:42:16 <Diablo-D3> now, if it was ASLv2 (BSD + GPLv3-like anti-patent language), it'd be a different story
420 2011-12-13 13:42:30 <wumpus> rasengan: at least, the message box becomes wider than the screen?
421 2011-12-13 13:42:55 <rasengan> http://i.imgur.com/3R6N9.png
422 2011-12-13 13:43:02 <rasengan> this is from 0.5.0 (but it was same as 0.5.1)
423 2011-12-13 13:43:18 <Diablo-D3> rasengan: ahh
424 2011-12-13 13:43:25 <Diablo-D3> thats not a mac maintainer prbolem
425 2011-12-13 13:43:28 <Diablo-D3> thats a qt bug problem
426 2011-12-13 13:43:38 <Diablo-D3> I wonder why qt isnt handling that right
427 2011-12-13 13:43:55 <wumpus> ok.. so it's not simply a flag on the label that says 'break this over multiple lines if needed'?
428 2011-12-13 13:44:07 <Diablo-D3> wumpus: pretty sure qt doesnt work that way
429 2011-12-13 13:44:10 <wumpus> I think it works ok in linux, at least, never saw the problem
430 2011-12-13 13:44:13 <Diablo-D3> because the line breaks on linux qt
431 2011-12-13 13:44:20 <wumpus> exactly
432 2011-12-13 13:44:35 <Diablo-D3> someone could throw a manual break in, but thats icky
433 2011-12-13 13:44:48 <wumpus> nah that's icky, we use a toolkit like qt to handle that for us
434 2011-12-13 13:45:12 <wumpus> and as it works fine on other OSes it seems it's an upstream bug :/
435 2011-12-13 13:46:08 <wumpus> anyway, the implementation for that dialog is in askpassphrasedialog.cpp, if someone with a mac feels like playing around with it
436 2011-12-13 13:46:40 <wumpus> but I hope you can solve it without changing the mssage: otherwise all the translations have to be adapted too
437 2011-12-13 13:53:10 <Diablo-D3> lol
438 2011-12-13 13:53:20 <Diablo-D3> Im being attacked on HN for being pro-FOSS
439 2011-12-13 13:54:43 <gavinandresen> 0.5.1rc1-setup.exe looks sane running on Windows XP SP3 ....
440 2011-12-13 14:00:56 <gavinandresen> 0.5.1rc1-tar.gz looks sane running on Ubuntu 11.04 32-bit...
441 2011-12-13 14:06:22 <wumpus> also on 11.10, tried both the 32 bit and 64 bit executable
442 2011-12-13 14:09:27 <wumpus> rasengan: the message is also cut off in linux
443 2011-12-13 14:10:13 <wumpus> rasengan: wordwrap is simply not enabled for the label :p
444 2011-12-13 14:12:51 <helo> is there a counter for the number of installs via ubuntu ppa?
445 2011-12-13 14:16:34 <rasengan> wumpus: ah
446 2011-12-13 14:27:14 <wumpus> rasengan: I'll change that for the next release
447 2011-12-13 14:27:27 <rasengan> wumpus: awesome, thank you :-)
448 2011-12-13 14:33:30 <wumpus> rasengan: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/698
449 2011-12-13 14:37:12 <rasengan> wumpus: nice
450 2011-12-13 14:39:41 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * r857aa73 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Enable wordwrap for long message in passphrase dialog ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/857aa73783a991e6d750c99988821585c1864e21
451 2011-12-13 16:19:50 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: can we get sipa's and luke-jr's dnsseeds in before 0.5.1?
452 2011-12-13 16:21:16 <devrandom> hey BlueMatt
453 2011-12-13 16:21:25 <BlueMatt> hi
454 2011-12-13 16:21:37 <BlueMatt> long time no see devrandom
455 2011-12-13 16:22:33 <devrandom> I'm always lurking ;)
456 2011-12-13 16:22:51 <BlueMatt> heh
457 2011-12-13 16:22:56 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: will it still potentially hang on dnsseed failure?
458 2011-12-13 16:23:08 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: as of 0.5.1, no
459 2011-12-13 16:23:10 <wumpus> no, dnssseed moved to another thread
460 2011-12-13 16:23:29 <gmaxwell> Great.
461 2011-12-13 16:25:37 <CIA-100> bips: genjix master * r1edc52d / (bip-0013.md bip-0014.md): Updated status. - http://git.io/YOqQbg https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/1edc52dddfb1ac6952e6be5057b9a7fdfbe75b21
462 2011-12-13 16:25:37 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: are sipa's and luke-jr's dns seeds already up and running?
463 2011-12-13 16:25:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: mine is a CNAME to jgarzik's dummy
464 2011-12-13 16:25:59 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: no, but they are cname'd to fallback nodes for now
465 2011-12-13 16:25:59 <sipa> gavinandresen: just a static list for now at seed.bitcoin.sipa.be, but hopefully soon a real dnsseed
466 2011-12-13 16:26:10 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: and its better to have them in the list earlier rater than later imo
467 2011-12-13 16:27:49 <gavinandresen> mmm.... I'd really rather not start to feature-creep 0.5.1
468 2011-12-13 16:28:45 <BlueMatt> I would argue adding more dnsseeds is a bugfix
469 2011-12-13 16:28:55 <BlueMatt> plus its a 2-line change...
470 2011-12-13 16:28:58 <gavinandresen> ... but if we have to spin a rc2 for some other reason (like alerts being broken) then I think we should do it
471 2011-12-13 16:29:01 <BlueMatt> (that doesnt even change any code)
472 2011-12-13 16:29:44 <gmaxwell> A couple of domain names are hardly feature creep. :) (caching means that clients may only be able to get one address per name, a risk that was probably underestimated in the past)
473 2011-12-13 16:30:23 <UukGoblin> no trades for half an hour or is amphipod down again?
474 2011-12-13 16:30:37 <BlueMatt> who runs amphipod anyway?
475 2011-12-13 16:31:34 <UukGoblin> I think tcatm runs the thing that feeds it
476 2011-12-13 16:31:45 <UukGoblin> (i.e. bitcoincharts.com port 27007)
477 2011-12-13 16:32:02 <genjix> huh
478 2011-12-13 16:32:16 <luke-jr> wumpus: why "Enable wordwrap for long message in passphrase dialog"?
479 2011-12-13 16:32:24 <genjix> gavinandresen: i got disconnected there so i might have missed your message (if you responded)
480 2011-12-13 16:32:29 <wumpus> the passphrase is not being wrapped luke-jr
481 2011-12-13 16:32:36 <wumpus> it's the label at the top
482 2011-12-13 16:32:43 <luke-jr> O.o
483 2011-12-13 16:32:49 <wumpus> the long message about what consists a good passphrase
484 2011-12-13 16:33:17 <gavinandresen> genjix: responded to what?
485 2011-12-13 16:33:22 <CIA-100> bips: genjix master * r5e56dc9 / (bip-0011.md bip-0012.md bip-0013.md): Synchronised BIPs wiki Wiki changes. - http://git.io/AiuZIw https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/5e56dc94ca9a007d95f7c5d8625667ccd0870250
486 2011-12-13 16:33:24 <wumpus> wrapping the passphrase would be extremely funny though :-)
487 2011-12-13 16:33:27 <luke-jr> wumpus: so that whole commit is a bugfix?
488 2011-12-13 16:33:30 <wumpus> yes
489 2011-12-13 16:33:40 <genjix> < genjix> gavinandresen: were any of your BIPs accepted yet? From what I can tell, they're still under discussion
490 2011-12-13 16:33:43 <genjix> < genjix> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Improvement_Proposals
491 2011-12-13 16:33:54 <wumpus> it's a very simple fix
492 2011-12-13 16:33:57 <genjix> < genjix> want to know if i should move any of those status Draft -> Accepted
493 2011-12-13 16:34:17 <BlueMatt> genjix: you never posted that...
494 2011-12-13 16:34:30 <genjix> ah weird...
495 2011-12-13 16:34:31 <gavinandresen> genjix: I think there is general consensus on 11 and 12.  The version numbering scheme for 13 is still being discussed
496 2011-12-13 16:34:37 <genjix> ok great
497 2011-12-13 16:37:07 <CIA-100> bips: genjix master * r12627ba / (bip-0011.md bip-0012.md): BIP 0011, BIP 0012: Draft -> Accepted - http://git.io/2rALeA https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/12627baeea94a377bb94612beeec9b9cc4bd978e
498 2011-12-13 16:38:03 <genjix> i'm 7 posts from having a post count of 1337 on bitcointalk
499 2011-12-13 16:41:25 <luke-jr> WTF
500 2011-12-13 16:41:32 <luke-jr> you can't decrypt your wallet?
501 2011-12-13 16:43:20 <midnightmagic> is there a key export function?
502 2011-12-13 16:43:23 <gmaxwell> Turning off the encryption isn't implemented, and every bug we hit makes me more glad of it. You can set your passphrase to something trivial of course.
503 2011-12-13 16:43:26 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no
504 2011-12-13 16:43:30 <BlueMatt> took you that long to figure that out?
505 2011-12-13 16:43:37 <midnightmagic> whoah
506 2011-12-13 16:43:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it being a checkbox implies it can be turned off ;/
507 2011-12-13 16:43:56 <BlueMatt> where is it a checkbox?
508 2011-12-13 16:43:58 <BlueMatt> that is wrong
509 2011-12-13 16:44:00 <luke-jr> on the menu
510 2011-12-13 16:44:09 <gmaxwell> You could, I presume, merge the sipa showwallet stuff and export.
511 2011-12-13 16:44:43 <gmaxwell> But yea, this wasn't a secret. It's a risky corner case, of limited value, which would get basically no testing exposure.
512 2011-12-13 16:45:16 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr 0.5.0.x * r79ef6e682680 bitcoind-stable/src/qt/ (askpassphrasedialog.cpp forms/askpassphrasedialog.ui): Enable wordwrap for long message in passphrase dialog - Remove explicit resizing from constructor to prevent potential hang http://tinyurl.com/75xry44
513 2011-12-13 16:46:50 <luke-jr> oops
514 2011-12-13 16:46:52 <wumpus> well there's a tick next to "encrypt wallet" in the menu to show that the wallet is encrypted, the option is disabled as well though when encrypted so I don't agree it implies that decryption is possible...
515 2011-12-13 16:48:43 <wumpus> I agree it's a low-priority risky corner case, though for symmetry it would be nice if it was possible to go back to decrypted state
516 2011-12-13 16:55:25 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan 0.5.0.x * r142e5056cd8a bitcoind-stable/src/qt/ (askpassphrasedialog.cpp forms/askpassphrasedialog.ui): Enable wordwrap for long message in passphrase dialog - Remove explicit resizing from constructor to prevent potential hang http://tinyurl.com/c3nuz7j
517 2011-12-13 17:14:34 <sipa> anyone want to try hammering the mini DNS server i implemented, running on vps.sipa.be ?
518 2011-12-13 17:15:10 <sipa> it only answers requests for seedtest.bitcoin.sipa.be
519 2011-12-13 17:15:55 <BlueMatt> sipa: you should probably respond with an error if its for any other domain...
520 2011-12-13 17:16:37 <BlueMatt> also, ttl of 1...
521 2011-12-13 17:16:44 <BlueMatt> maybe 60?
522 2011-12-13 17:17:25 <sipa> BlueMatt: ok, it answers REFUSED now for other domains
523 2011-12-13 17:17:46 <sipa> sure, ttl is configurable
524 2011-12-13 17:18:22 <luke-jr> why not TTL 0?
525 2011-12-13 17:18:23 <BlueMatt> oh, and as gmaxwell pointed out a couple days ago, I think Im gonna try to respond to *.dnsseed.bluematt.me with ips
526 2011-12-13 17:18:32 <BlueMatt> it would be nice if you could do the same
527 2011-12-13 17:18:39 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you want a slight ttl to give you some anti-ddos.
528 2011-12-13 17:18:51 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: a DDoS isn't going to care what the TTL is
529 2011-12-13 17:19:07 <gmaxwell> sure it will, if they're running through recursive resolvers in order to be hard to block.
530 2011-12-13 17:19:26 <gmaxwell> (or, launched from web browsers where the attacker doesn't have any resolver control)
531 2011-12-13 17:20:33 <gmaxwell> wrt, the wildcard the reason for that is that there are a lot of 'broken' recursive resolvers out there that do crap like ignore the TTL or only return one a record. A client behind one of those could only get more seeds by querying additional names.
532 2011-12-13 17:20:58 <gmaxwell> (I don't have figures for 'a lot' it's enough that it causes problems but not enough to make GSLB useless)
533 2011-12-13 17:21:08 <sipa> shouldn't be hard
534 2011-12-13 17:25:25 <sipa> BlueMatt: implemented, it answers for subdomains as well
535 2011-12-13 17:25:36 <BlueMatt> nice
536 2011-12-13 17:26:04 <sipa> it lacks a SOA record implementation, but i doubt that's very necessary
537 2011-12-13 17:26:52 <gavinandresen> Does anybody have a 0.5.0 release candidate 1/2/3 bitcoin-qt binary handy?  If you do, could your run it -testnet for me?
538 2011-12-13 17:27:25 <helo> has there been email sent to a .bit domain yet?
539 2011-12-13 17:30:04 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: do we support rcs?
540 2011-12-13 17:30:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: rcs for what?
541 2011-12-13 17:30:31 <BlueMatt> previous releases?
542 2011-12-13 17:30:54 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no, I change the sourceforge RCS tree to nothing but a README a while back
543 2011-12-13 17:31:10 <BlueMatt> so why are you testing testnet on 0.5.0 rcs?
544 2011-12-13 17:31:28 <gavinandresen> Sorry, 0.5.0 release candidate
545 2011-12-13 17:31:48 <gavinandresen> I'm testing the CAlert system
546 2011-12-13 17:31:58 <BlueMatt> on unsupported releases?
547 2011-12-13 17:32:13 <gavinandresen> Yes
548 2011-12-13 17:32:16 <BlueMatt> mmm
549 2011-12-13 17:34:22 <BlueMatt> running...no alert yet...
550 2011-12-13 17:34:22 <gavinandresen> wumpus:  there's no code in bitcoin-qt to display CAlert messages?
551 2011-12-13 17:34:40 <BlueMatt> 8 connections and no alert
552 2011-12-13 17:35:01 <BlueMatt> wait, seriously wtf?
553 2011-12-13 17:35:03 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: methinks CAlert never got implemented in bitcoin-qt.......
554 2011-12-13 17:35:10 <BlueMatt> oh god
555 2011-12-13 17:35:41 <gmaxwell> ...
556 2011-12-13 17:35:55 <BlueMatt> well thats a release-blocker
557 2011-12-13 17:37:13 <gavinandresen> serves me right for never testing it before.  It does work on 0.4.0.
558 2011-12-13 17:40:41 <gavinandresen> afk for lunch.
559 2011-12-13 17:40:51 <wumpus> how are they delivered? if it's simply through (threadsafe)messagebox they are displayed as notification
560 2011-12-13 17:41:10 <BlueMatt> in wx its a status bar message
561 2011-12-13 17:41:56 <wumpus> void CalledSetStatusBar(const std::string& strText, int nField)
562 2011-12-13 17:42:00 <wumpus> seems the answer is no, then...
563 2011-12-13 17:42:24 <BlueMatt> so whos got the time to fix it today?
564 2011-12-13 17:42:41 <BlueMatt> (it might not be that function, check the CAlert code and see what it calls
565 2011-12-13 17:42:43 <wumpus> I might have time today
566 2011-12-13 17:42:44 <BlueMatt> )
567 2011-12-13 17:42:46 <wumpus> how can I test it?
568 2011-12-13 17:43:04 <wumpus> is there a way to trigger alert messages on a testnet-in-a-box?
569 2011-12-13 17:43:11 <BlueMatt> it doesnt work gavin just put out an alert on testnet and it doesnt apear
570 2011-12-13 17:44:52 <wumpus> yes, but if I were to implement it, can I test it somehow?
571 2011-12-13 17:44:53 <gavinandresen> wumpus:  yes, there are a couple of alerts on testnet that should trigger on 0.4.0 and 0.5.0 through 0.5.1
572 2011-12-13 17:45:07 <gavinandresen> wumpus: ... so just run -testnet and you should get them.
573 2011-12-13 17:45:09 <wumpus> ok
574 2011-12-13 17:46:16 <gavinandresen> wumpus: they're set to expire in 24 hours, just let me know and I can generate longer-lived alerts.
575 2011-12-13 17:48:16 <BlueMatt> the problem is you never call GetWarnings("statusbar") like wx did to get statusbar text
576 2011-12-13 17:55:09 <jgarzik> yeah, there should be no problem adding DNS seeds at any time to 'master', IMO
577 2011-12-13 17:55:11 <jgarzik> or removing
578 2011-12-13 18:17:07 <wumpus> ok that is probably why I didn't find any usages for CalledStatusBar outside of the miner
579 2011-12-13 18:31:05 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/700
580 2011-12-13 18:31:09 <BlueMatt> wumpus: ^
581 2011-12-13 18:32:53 <wumpus> huh, I was also working on this
582 2011-12-13 18:33:11 <wumpus> but seems fine
583 2011-12-13 18:33:40 <wumpus> MainFrameRepaint, from which thread is it called?
584 2011-12-13 18:33:41 <BlueMatt> oh, sorry
585 2011-12-13 18:33:52 <BlueMatt> net thread...oh wait
586 2011-12-13 18:34:06 <wumpus> might be you need the QueuedConnection stuff then
587 2011-12-13 18:35:46 <TD> evening
588 2011-12-13 18:35:54 <wumpus> evening
589 2011-12-13 18:35:56 <BlueMatt> hi
590 2011-12-13 18:35:58 <TD> if you're in the area, why not make alerts be popup dialogs?
591 2011-12-13 18:36:37 <BlueMatt> wumpus: fixed
592 2011-12-13 18:36:52 <wumpus> well, the status bar is persistent
593 2011-12-13 18:36:59 <BlueMatt> TD: because status bar is the way it was in wx? but no, I dunno I prefer the persistence of status bar
594 2011-12-13 18:37:08 <TD> but is it easy to spot?
595 2011-12-13 18:37:15 <BlueMatt> also, I have your nick marked to highlight me and I forgot why...
596 2011-12-13 18:37:18 <TD> my intuition is that a lot of people won't see it, or will see it and ignore it
597 2011-12-13 18:37:34 <wumpus> well a popup box is also easily ignored
598 2011-12-13 18:37:42 <wumpus> especially by windows users which are bombarded to death with them
599 2011-12-13 18:38:07 <wumpus> the bitcoin-qt status bar is usually pretty empty, so if there's a message there it should be appearent
600 2011-12-13 18:38:29 <TD> maybe both? :-)
601 2011-12-13 18:38:32 <wumpus> then again, I have no problem with *also* showing a popup
602 2011-12-13 18:38:35 <wumpus> yeah..
603 2011-12-13 18:38:39 <TD> i guess alerts will mostly be used for things like mandatory upgrade announcements
604 2011-12-13 18:38:47 <TD> so interrupting the user isn't necessarily a bad thing
605 2011-12-13 18:38:53 <BlueMatt> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=qozllu&s=5
606 2011-12-13 18:38:57 <BlueMatt> how it looks ^
607 2011-12-13 18:39:05 <sipa> interrupting the user usually results in the user clicking the popup away
608 2011-12-13 18:39:14 <sipa> so i'd vote for having both
609 2011-12-13 18:40:04 <wumpus> but in that case you need a notification signal when the warnings changed, and if it changed to non-empty -> show a popup
610 2011-12-13 18:40:24 <wumpus> I think BlueMatt's implementation is fine for 0.5.1
611 2011-12-13 18:40:34 <wumpus> could add a alert box later
612 2011-12-13 18:40:37 <helo> how do you notify a bitcoind user?
613 2011-12-13 18:40:41 <gavinandresen> I agree, simple is good for now.
614 2011-12-13 18:40:44 <BlueMatt> it will take me like 10 seconds to add a dialog box...one sec
615 2011-12-13 18:41:46 <TD> helo: unresolved unfortunately. there isn't even a mailing list for announcements :(
616 2011-12-13 18:41:54 <TD> helo: for linux, probably sending a mail to root is the best way
617 2011-12-13 18:42:00 <TD> or rather
618 2011-12-13 18:42:02 <wumpus> helo: it logs the message
619 2011-12-13 18:42:03 <TD> the user who is running bitcoind
620 2011-12-13 18:42:16 <TD> that way it may get forwarded (would on my box) and the user will see it when they log in via the terminal
621 2011-12-13 18:42:19 <wumpus> and noone ever will read it there
622 2011-12-13 18:42:29 <TD> bitcoind on Mac and Windows is probably an unusual setup
623 2011-12-13 18:43:50 <gavinandresen> helo: getinfo RPC returns an "errors" with the alert text in it
624 2011-12-13 18:44:09 <gavinandresen> helo: e.g. on testnet right now:   "errors" : "CAlert system test:         ver.0.5.1 available"
625 2011-12-13 18:44:16 <wumpus> ok that's pretty cool
626 2011-12-13 18:44:27 <wumpus> so there, too, you have persistent notification
627 2011-12-13 18:44:49 <BlueMatt> done
628 2011-12-13 18:45:42 <sipa> BlueMatt: how does your p2p crawler work? just keep a list of all known nodes, and try random/old ones from it?
629 2011-12-13 18:46:33 <BlueMatt> sipa: keeps a db of connectable and recently tried nodes, if a node doesnt work, retry it after 46 hours and eventually drop it after 48 hours
630 2011-12-13 18:46:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: only add nodes to db if their last_seen is somewhat recent
631 2011-12-13 18:47:04 <BlueMatt> but as I said, its not like mine is ideal
632 2011-12-13 18:47:17 <sipa> i'd like to have a working version soon
633 2011-12-13 18:47:20 <BlueMatt> that was picked because of the way the db writes are done, not because it is the best way...
634 2011-12-13 18:47:43 <sipa> currently the dns server is a binary of 50kb :)
635 2011-12-13 18:47:52 <BlueMatt> nice
636 2011-12-13 18:48:17 <BlueMatt> so its a network crawler which keeps a db and also is a dns server?
637 2011-12-13 18:48:27 <sipa> currently just a dns server
638 2011-12-13 18:48:34 <BlueMatt> oh
639 2011-12-13 18:48:42 <sipa> the hard part still needs to be done :)
640 2011-12-13 18:49:13 <sipa> didn't expect it to take so long to get a functioning dns
641 2011-12-13 18:49:20 <BlueMatt> heh
642 2011-12-13 18:51:39 <midnightmagic> .. this list is being maintained for your own purposes or is this the dns seed that bitcoin clients use to find seed nodes?
643 2011-12-13 18:52:01 <sipa> there are several dns seeds
644 2011-12-13 18:52:27 <sipa> but BlueMatt's one is hardcoded in the client
645 2011-12-13 18:52:39 <midnightmagic> i guess the irc network itself is technically a centralized point that can manipulate which client nodes can initially find one another
646 2011-12-13 18:55:54 <helo> ahh nice
647 2011-12-13 19:00:52 <BlueMatt> sipa: btw, when doing dnsseeds, make sure you limit to >v0.3.24 and maybe check that they have the most recent block
648 2011-12-13 19:00:59 <BlueMatt> or second most or something
649 2011-12-13 19:01:25 <sipa> and how do i know what the most recent block is?
650 2011-12-13 19:01:40 <sipa> without implementing a full node
651 2011-12-13 19:02:22 <BlueMatt> mmm, good point...well atleast check that you can download like block 2
652 2011-12-13 19:02:27 <BlueMatt> or take a poll
653 2011-12-13 19:02:37 <BlueMatt> most commonly cited as most recent block probably is
654 2011-12-13 19:02:59 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: multiple CAlert dialog boxes testing your patch.....
655 2011-12-13 19:03:12 <gavinandresen> ... like, an infinite number...
656 2011-12-13 19:04:07 <wumpus> with a new message every time?
657 2011-12-13 19:04:13 <gavinandresen> no, same message over and over
658 2011-12-13 19:04:13 <sipa> infinity dialog boxes in play, infinity dialog boxes... you take one down and click it away... infinity dialog boxes in play
659 2011-12-13 19:05:05 <gavinandresen> Line 500 of bitcoingui.cpp needs to go before line 499, I believe
660 2011-12-13 19:05:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: take the median.
661 2011-12-13 19:05:16 <wumpus> because the code does check whether the message is changed
662 2011-12-13 19:05:34 <gmaxwell> It doesn't hurt if the cutoff is a little behind, I think.
663 2011-12-13 19:06:44 <gavinandresen> sipa: you could hardcode the block-chain checkpoint depths, and skip nodes that don't have at least that many
664 2011-12-13 19:06:53 <sipa> good idea
665 2011-12-13 19:07:09 <wumpus> gavinandresen: the order seems correct; it shows the warning if the new is different from the previous, then sets the previous to the current (for next check)
666 2011-12-13 19:07:43 <gavinandresen> wumpus: ... but it is multithreaded....
667 2011-12-13 19:07:58 <wumpus> no, functions in bitcoingui are only called from the ui thread
668 2011-12-13 19:08:21 <gavinandresen> wumpus: ... so I think the dialog box is displayed, then the routine is re-entered before prevStatusBar is set
669 2011-12-13 19:08:21 <wumpus> he queues the call in MainframeRepaint
670 2011-12-13 19:08:50 <wumpus> that's not possible
671 2011-12-13 19:09:13 <gavinandresen> Okey doke.  Then there's a different bug that's making my Mac draw lots and lots of the same CAlert system test dialog boxes
672 2011-12-13 19:09:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: if you wanted to be super snazzy you could have a table of all hashs value prior to the highest checkpoint and actually test some random block. e.g. check top_checkpoint-log(random());
673 2011-12-13 19:10:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm sure nodes could go great lengths to pretend being a real node without being one
674 2011-12-13 19:10:16 <sipa> but what's the point?
675 2011-12-13 19:10:37 <sipa> i shouldn't be testing for maliciousness, only for being accessible and up-to-date
676 2011-12-13 19:10:45 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yes it's really weird
677 2011-12-13 19:11:29 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: we were just talking about a bug in the alert dialog box code
678 2011-12-13 19:13:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: It's true also, if you had an end, the cost of being a real node (via proxy) is low.
679 2011-12-13 19:13:39 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I saw your message, but I dont see how...
680 2011-12-13 19:15:40 <wumpus> I don't get it either
681 2011-12-13 19:16:53 <gavinandresen> Multiple QEvents being queued to show dialogs?
682 2011-12-13 19:17:15 <gavinandresen> I don't pretend to understand QT's threading model....
683 2011-12-13 19:17:16 <wumpus> I get it only once
684 2011-12-13 19:17:42 <gavinandresen> wumpus: on OSX?
685 2011-12-13 19:18:00 <BlueMatt> qt's threading model is the same as wx's one
686 2011-12-13 19:18:05 <wumpus> well, is MainFrameRepaint getting called many times?
687 2011-12-13 19:18:07 <BlueMatt> everything in the gui must be called from the same thread
688 2011-12-13 19:18:10 <BlueMatt> wumpus: yes
689 2011-12-13 19:18:20 <wumpus> gavinandresen: on Ubuntu
690 2011-12-13 19:18:21 <BlueMatt> you are going to get the alert from each node you connect to
691 2011-12-13 19:18:36 <BlueMatt> and thus MainFrameRepaint is gonna get called >=8 times
692 2011-12-13 19:18:54 <gavinandresen> Completely reproducible on my mac.  I do have to move the top dialog box out of the way to see the others....
693 2011-12-13 19:19:08 <wumpus> so the call to refreshStatusBar gets queued 8 times
694 2011-12-13 19:19:41 <wumpus> but it will only display a popup if the message is (slightly) different
695 2011-12-13 19:20:45 <wumpus> but if there are multiple alert messages on the network, it might display A then B than A then B again?
696 2011-12-13 19:20:58 <BlueMatt> there is only one alert message afaict...
697 2011-12-13 19:21:23 <wumpus> yeah...
698 2011-12-13 19:21:48 <BlueMatt> though that is a good point, two alerts could get...annoying
699 2011-12-13 19:22:30 <gavinandresen> Each alert has a unique ID.  Keeping a set of already-displayed ids is probably the right thing to do.
700 2011-12-13 19:22:42 <wumpus> I think I know the problem
701 2011-12-13 19:22:59 <[Tycho]> Hmm, may be it's time to accept 0.0005 as fee...
702 2011-12-13 19:23:12 <BlueMatt> no, its not
703 2011-12-13 19:23:23 <wumpus> if error shows a model dialog box, it will re-enter the event loop
704 2011-12-13 19:23:24 <[Tycho]> But it looks almost like zero to me.
705 2011-12-13 19:23:26 <BlueMatt> wumpus: care to share?
706 2011-12-13 19:23:37 <wumpus> in this event loop it executes the queued function
707 2011-12-13 19:23:47 <wumpus> which calls error again...
708 2011-12-13 19:24:10 <gavinandresen> yes, it is recursing:  https://gist.github.com/1473725
709 2011-12-13 19:24:17 <wumpus> which enters an event loop, which receives a queued call
710 2011-12-13 19:24:40 <gmaxwell> Someone really should tell the multicoin that the current fee is 0.0005 and not the relay fee of 0.0001 :-/
711 2011-12-13 19:24:44 <wumpus> which is all fun and games until the stack is full
712 2011-12-13 19:25:13 <BlueMatt> wumpus: ok, so how does one fix such a problem?
713 2011-12-13 19:25:22 <wumpus> what gavinandresensuggested
714 2011-12-13 19:25:30 <wumpus> prevStatusBar = newStatusBar;  before calling error
715 2011-12-13 19:26:21 <wumpus> in this case, a new call (that comes in while the alert box is shown) will not go into a recursive event loop
716 2011-12-13 19:26:22 <gavinandresen> ... or create a static std::set<int> alreadyDisplayed ....
717 2011-12-13 19:26:46 <gavinandresen> ... although then you might need a critical section guard...
718 2011-12-13 19:27:01 <wumpus> right, why not comment out the alert box code for now
719 2011-12-13 19:27:04 <gavinandresen> ... and the "it'll just take me 10 seconds" goes COMPLETELY out the window
720 2011-12-13 19:27:04 <wumpus> and release 0.5.1
721 2011-12-13 19:27:07 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the problem is we dont get the CAlert in qt...
722 2011-12-13 19:27:16 <wumpus> and do it properly later
723 2011-12-13 19:27:19 <gavinandresen> Ok, std::set<string> then
724 2011-12-13 19:27:25 <BlueMatt> sounds good
725 2011-12-13 19:27:36 <wumpus> I don't like that in the BitcoinGui :/
726 2011-12-13 19:27:56 <gavinandresen> ... or go back to the "just put it in the status bar."
727 2011-12-13 19:28:23 <BlueMatt> but if you dont feel like it, it doesnt matter...
728 2011-12-13 19:28:44 <gavinandresen> I'll defer to wumpus (Mr. GUI King)
729 2011-12-13 19:29:27 <luke-jr> [15:24:41] <gmaxwell> Someone really should tell the multicoin that the current fee is 0.0005 and not the relay fee of 0.0001 :-/
730 2011-12-13 19:29:34 <wumpus> well I guess it's ok for now ... (the "I'll refactor later" excuse,  too much logic is seeping into the UI code)
731 2011-12-13 19:29:43 <luke-jr> ^ and fix bitcoind/Bitcoin-Qt too by merging my pull
732 2011-12-13 19:31:44 <BlueMatt> well I disabled the popup for now
733 2011-12-13 19:31:51 <BlueMatt> wumpus: feel free to do as you wish
734 2011-12-13 19:32:42 <wumpus> yes I think that's safest for now
735 2011-12-13 19:33:47 <wumpus> at least with the statusbar we're sure it doesn't cause any problems, as it was the same in wx, which is nice for a last-minute addition
736 2011-12-13 19:34:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/677 includes a bugfix for the fees
737 2011-12-13 19:34:53 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: bugfix for what bug?
738 2011-12-13 19:35:07 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: bitcoind & -Qt are currently mining based on 0.0001 BTC fees
739 2011-12-13 19:35:16 <luke-jr> which was never the intention nor discussed
740 2011-12-13 19:35:44 <gmaxwell> of course, what bitcoind-stock mines is irrelevant because no big miners are running that, AFAIK. ;) but it's better if its not wrong.
741 2011-12-13 19:36:24 <luke-jr> :P
742 2011-12-13 19:36:38 <gavinandresen> I seem to recall discussion of always mining at a lower fee level than relaying, at least until we get a good floating-fees scheme implemented
743 2011-12-13 19:37:12 <gavinandresen> ... but I am probably misremembering (I was in Australia at the time)