1 2011-12-31 00:04:32 <edcba> about bitcoin ?
  2 2011-12-31 00:09:37 <lianj> only first couple of minutes are about bitcoin
  3 2011-12-31 00:13:32 <doublec> midnightmagic: brutal in what way?
  4 2011-12-31 00:20:31 <Joric> midnightmagic, can't find 28c3 + kaminsky on youtube resuls seem unrelevant
  5 2011-12-31 00:20:54 <Joric> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RifYnSKSkvk that one ?
  6 2011-12-31 00:23:02 <lianj> yes
  7 2011-12-31 00:38:03 <Joric> oh god he's driving the price down
  8 2011-12-31 00:38:45 <Joric> nope it's still 4.2 nevermind
  9 2011-12-31 00:49:17 <Joric> is there really a problem of an uncontrolling blockchain growth?
 10 2011-12-31 00:59:37 <luke-jr> Joric: hm?
 11 2011-12-31 01:00:44 <luke-jr> this guy sounds like an idiot
 12 2011-12-31 01:01:06 <Joric> he looks like an idiot too but that's not the point
 13 2011-12-31 01:01:24 <Joric> how fast does blockchain grow? are there any speed limits?
 14 2011-12-31 01:01:33 <luke-jr> 1 MB per block
 15 2011-12-31 01:01:37 <luke-jr> is the limit
 16 2011-12-31 01:02:08 <vsrinivas> nominally 6 blocks per hr solved; however clients store more in their blockchain data files.
 17 2011-12-31 01:02:21 <luke-jr> not much more
 18 2011-12-31 01:02:32 <luke-jr> so 144 MB/day max
 19 2011-12-31 01:04:00 <vsrinivas> there's no particular limit to someone sending out tons of diff=1 blocks, is there? ; nodes will dutifully store those in excess of the above limit.
 20 2011-12-31 01:04:47 <vsrinivas> ah, nvm, there is the checkpoint stuff.
 21 2011-12-31 01:09:13 <onelineproof> eventually the chain will be pruned, I thought
 22 2011-12-31 01:12:37 <luke-jr> this idiot is overlooking the fact that Bitcoin was designed with the "banking model" in the long run
 23 2011-12-31 01:12:47 <luke-jr> and the important thing is that none of the banks can just print more money
 24 2011-12-31 01:16:22 <tcatm> that's just wrong. the paper assumed every node to mine bitcoins.
 25 2011-12-31 01:18:53 <luke-jr> when the blockchain forks, we should declare the ASCII art spam "gone" just for these idiots
 26 2011-12-31 01:37:57 <coderrr> at least he added that fact that supernodes/banks cant print money since the last time he did that talk
 27 2011-12-31 02:18:39 <onelineproof> a mining pool is like a supernode, but everyone contributes
 28 2011-12-31 03:01:23 <midnightmagic> doublec: brutal because 1. he is speaking about claims supposedly made that were not (re:anonymity), and then the way he mocks the developers for seemingly putting features in thrre that were deisgned to be aninymity, and specifically calling the "new" non-anonymity stance of gavin an admission of utter failure.
 29 2011-12-31 03:02:32 <doublec> ah ok
 30 2011-12-31 03:03:10 <midnightmagic> doublec: also brutal in delivery, rude, shrill, falsely exasperated, gloating, gleeful in the brutality of what he perceives to be failures
 31 2011-12-31 03:05:02 <midnightmagic> lots of distracting physical tics.. i would have trouble interacting with someone with so little personal refinement, if that is how he is like in real life. :( but primarily because he is making unfounded value judgements based on sweeping overgeneralisations..
 32 2011-12-31 03:06:01 <midnightmagic> i mean i can handle cerebral palsy NO problem if the mind behind it is civil.
 33 2011-12-31 03:07:57 <midnightmagic> i do value his contributions otherwise though, so i suppose there's just some cognitive dissonance going on there.
 34 2011-12-31 03:08:33 <cjdelisle> welcome to the whitehat industry
 35 2011-12-31 03:08:55 <cjdelisle> they put bread on the table by crying BuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUuuuuuUUUUuug
 36 2011-12-31 03:09:55 <midnightmagic> he's whitehat?! that surprises me the way he was cavalierly implying he had access to huge botnets..
 37 2011-12-31 03:10:46 <midnightmagic> what now?
 38 2011-12-31 03:11:15 <cjdelisle> and yea, he's always been like that, re DNS where djb had fixed that problem ten years earlier.
 39 2011-12-31 03:11:26 <midnightmagic> gone back to the cam thing has he?
 40 2011-12-31 03:11:28 <luke-jr> http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/money-shiny-new-coins-1.404597
 41 2011-12-31 03:11:35 <luke-jr> "Above all, explains Amir Taaki, chairman of Bitcoin Consultancy and one of the leading developers, the system is decentralized. In other words, the money belongs to the user, and no government or commercial body can take it from him. As an example, Taaki mentions an Iranian friend whose contributions to open-source nonprofit organizations were rejected because of the U.S. embargo. "Nobody will tell me not to send money to someone
 42 2011-12-31 03:11:36 <luke-jr> in Iran when I use Bitcoin," says Taaki."
 43 2011-12-31 03:12:40 <midnightmagic> geh..
 44 2011-12-31 03:13:00 <luke-jr> crap like that screams "please ban Bitcoin!"
 45 2011-12-31 03:13:23 <cjdelisle> it's a use case, something btc is severly lacking atm
 46 2011-12-31 03:13:26 <luke-jr> it also calls into question if Bitcoin Consultancy's code is legal
 47 2011-12-31 03:14:18 <midnightmagic> cjdelisle: whew. i had to grit my teeth to watch the whole thing through
 48 2011-12-31 03:14:22 <justmoon> did he know that he was talking to an Israeli newspaper when he used the Iran example?
 49 2011-12-31 03:14:36 <midnightmagic> but the bitcoin analysis talk was great!
 50 2011-12-31 03:15:01 <luke-jr> justmoon: really? epic idiocy
 51 2011-12-31 03:15:47 <justmoon> it was a question, the link you sent is an israeli newspaper, but they might have quoted him from somewhere
 52 2011-12-31 03:15:55 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: what would you expect?
 53 2011-12-31 03:16:21 <luke-jr> "During those difficult moments, the Bitcoin community turned to its founder and creator, Nakamura, from whom they had last heard in April 2011, before the hack. When he refused to reveal himself, the conspiracy theories were not long in coming. Nakamura was suspected of belonging to some government organization, and of being the Bernie Madoff of the new Ponzi scheme: the Bitcoin. He was accused of mining coins when they had no
 54 2011-12-31 03:16:22 <luke-jr> value, in order to redeem them with complete anonymity later on."
 55 2011-12-31 03:16:24 <luke-jr> wtf?
 56 2011-12-31 03:16:56 <justmoon> "Nakamura" <- nice touch
 57 2011-12-31 03:16:58 <rjk2> wat ees dis shit?
 58 2011-12-31 03:17:58 <midnightmagic> easy way to mock the story for getting such a majir detail wrong
 59 2011-12-31 03:18:00 <luke-jr> "Taaki says that even the hack that enabled the fiasco at Mt. Gox was discovered by his team three days earlier, but despite the warning, the site did not take care of the problem."
 60 2011-12-31 03:18:12 <luke-jr> 1. not cool to hack your competition
 61 2011-12-31 03:18:20 <midnightmagic> whoah
 62 2011-12-31 03:18:22 <luke-jr> 2. IIRC, the leaked db was much older than 3 days]
 63 2011-12-31 03:19:24 <midnightmagic> there was so much disinfirmation about that it's no longer possible to sort out the truth. idiots making claims without actually having seen or verified ANYthing themselves personally.
 64 2011-12-31 03:20:17 <justmoon> "The first business to accept Bitcoin as a means of payment was a Massachusetts farmer who sold alpaca wool socks for a modest number of coins." <- is that actually true? he was early, but I don't think he can be called *the* first
 65 2011-12-31 03:20:33 <luke-jr> justmoon: could have been
 66 2011-12-31 03:20:51 <justmoon> hmm, learn something new every day
 67 2011-12-31 03:21:28 <luke-jr> anyhow, I think one thing is clear:
 68 2011-12-31 03:21:35 <luke-jr> no matter what kind of press it is, Bitcoin goes up :P
 69 2011-12-31 03:21:42 <midnightmagic> :-)
 70 2011-12-31 03:21:49 <justmoon> well, overall I think the article is pretty positive
 71 2011-12-31 03:21:57 <justmoon> "Just as various countries such as Iran and Syria are closing their gates to foreigners and the commissions charged by various banks and intermediaries are particularly high, Bitcoin should definitely be considered a legitimate option for commerce."
 72 2011-12-31 03:22:07 <justmoon> they actually kind of agreed with Amir's example, lol :)
 73 2011-12-31 03:22:34 <luke-jr> they won't be the ones making the law to ban Bitcoin
 74 2011-12-31 03:22:53 <luke-jr> though I expect Israel will be one of the first to ban it
 75 2011-12-31 03:23:03 <luke-jr> sorry, "Israel"
 76 2011-12-31 03:23:13 <cjdelisle> HAHA
 77 2011-12-31 03:23:13 <midnightmagic> you think so? they didn't ban lindens
 78 2011-12-31 03:23:27 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: Lindens don't compete with the banks
 79 2011-12-31 03:23:36 <cjdelisle> luke-jr: if "they" banned btc, it might hurt your business but it would do wonders for btc as a whole.
 80 2011-12-31 03:23:49 <midnightmagic> same thing required to convert to local currency though
 81 2011-12-31 03:23:56 <cjdelisle> a ban is a last resort tactic which indicates they're really scared
 82 2011-12-31 03:23:56 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: that comparison is only useful for *existing* laws; new laws can target Bitcoin specifically
 83 2011-12-31 03:24:06 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: you assume
 84 2011-12-31 03:24:26 <cjdelisle> first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
 85 2011-12-31 03:24:26 <luke-jr> no legitimate business/person will use Bitcoin if it's illegla
 86 2011-12-31 03:25:08 <cjdelisle> well if church was banned then no legitimate person would goto church :P
 87 2011-12-31 03:25:21 <luke-jr> the Catholic Church cannot be banned.
 88 2011-12-31 03:25:40 <cjdelisle> As with btc
 89 2011-12-31 03:25:43 <luke-jr> no
 90 2011-12-31 03:25:48 <rjk2> because is is p2p! :P
 91 2011-12-31 03:25:51 <luke-jr> Bitcoin can very easily be banned.
 92 2011-12-31 03:25:54 <luke-jr> rjk2: it isn't p2p
 93 2011-12-31 03:26:01 <rjk2> spread the good word
 94 2011-12-31 03:26:03 <cjdelisle> And because it is not doing anything wrong.
 95 2011-12-31 03:26:08 <rjk2> from person to person
 96 2011-12-31 03:26:14 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: if a law passes banning it, it is wrong
 97 2011-12-31 03:26:22 <luke-jr> nobody has a right to Bitcoin
 98 2011-12-31 03:26:28 <midnightmagic> i've ALWAYS said that the illegal trade hurts the currency in the long run. stupid silk road anyway..
 99 2011-12-31 03:27:18 <cjdelisle> I know right from wrong and I don't need to consult the words of corrupt politicians and lawyers.
100 2011-12-31 03:27:20 <justmoon> luke-jr: there are legal rights and natural rights. free speech is a natural right, so by that standard using bitcoin can never be morally wrong.
101 2011-12-31 03:27:55 <luke-jr> "free speech" is not a right at all
102 2011-12-31 03:28:11 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: disobedience is wrong
103 2011-12-31 03:28:16 <midnightmagic> i wonder when they're going to decloak silk road.. i'm guessing tney would need the help of one of the exchanges, or silk road would have to eschew the use of an exchange.. i wonder how they dispose of the bitcoins they tax.
104 2011-12-31 03:28:20 <cjdelisle> luke-jr: how do you know?
105 2011-12-31 03:28:44 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: the same way anyone can know morality: the Church teaches it
106 2011-12-31 03:28:45 <justmoon> luke-jr: of course it is, we are born with the ability to speak, but no way to derive a right to forbid others from speaking amongst themselves
107 2011-12-31 03:28:49 <cjdelisle> I tell you it is right, are you going to disobey me by contradicting me?
108 2011-12-31 03:28:59 <midnightmagic> lol
109 2011-12-31 03:29:03 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: you hold no authority.
110 2011-12-31 03:29:33 <luke-jr> justmoon: ability != right
111 2011-12-31 03:29:53 <lfm> disobedience is absolutly required sometimes
112 2011-12-31 03:30:08 <luke-jr> lfm: not the sin of disobedience, no.
113 2011-12-31 03:30:28 <midnightmagic> civil disobedience is the duty of every citizen who lives under an unjust law
114 2011-12-31 03:30:38 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: all laws are just by default
115 2011-12-31 03:30:45 <luke-jr> an unjust law is one which contradicts a higher law.
116 2011-12-31 03:30:51 <luke-jr> which banning Bitcoin does not.
117 2011-12-31 03:30:59 <midnightmagic> the syrian people would disagree with you
118 2011-12-31 03:31:07 <luke-jr> then they are wrong
119 2011-12-31 03:31:14 <lfm> so if a preist tells you to diddle a child, you are required to obey?
120 2011-12-31 03:31:33 <luke-jr> lfm: a priest does not have the authority to tell you that.
121 2011-12-31 03:31:35 <midnightmagic> the families of the chopped-up syrians especially would probably disagree with you
122 2011-12-31 03:31:48 <luke-jr> lfm: the sin of disobedience implies an authoritative command
123 2011-12-31 03:31:53 <justmoon> luke-jr: ability != right is correct, but it does not follow that another person can restrict your speech
124 2011-12-31 03:31:56 <midnightmagic> additionally, what about laws in a country which cintradict the laws in anither?
125 2011-12-31 03:32:10 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: countries have local jurisdiction only
126 2011-12-31 03:32:28 <lfm> so you dont have to obey if the order is unauthorized / illegal
127 2011-12-31 03:32:29 <justmoon> luke-jr: calling it a right is a mere abbreviation of the observation that noone has the right to stop you from using your natural ability
128 2011-12-31 03:32:43 <luke-jr> lfm: it wouldn't be disobedience to ignore it, right
129 2011-12-31 03:32:48 <midnightmagic> you realise of course that your simplification is forcing you into an absurd position?
130 2011-12-31 03:33:00 <luke-jr> justmoon: except that the State and Church do have that authority.
131 2011-12-31 03:33:12 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: nothing absurd about it
132 2011-12-31 03:33:26 <lfm> perhaps banning bitcoin is unconstitutional so then we would not have to obey
133 2011-12-31 03:34:29 <Diablo-D3> hey guys
134 2011-12-31 03:34:39 <Diablo-D3> can sandy bridge gpus run opencl?
135 2011-12-31 03:34:49 <Diablo-D3> thats the only ones, right?
136 2011-12-31 03:35:12 <vsrinivas> only ones from Intel, yes.
137 2011-12-31 03:35:28 <Diablo-D3> k, just making sure.
138 2011-12-31 03:36:38 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: not on Linux
139 2011-12-31 03:36:52 <midnightmagic> the syrian laws are made by syrian authoritarian regimes, and they allow the government to murder people lawfully. to say that laws are by definition just is to ignore like.. a thousand or more years of legal philosophy, and to legitimize the authority of illegitimate givernments merely because they had the power to sieze it.
140 2011-12-31 03:37:06 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: not by definition. by default.
141 2011-12-31 03:37:21 <midnightmagic> explai!
142 2011-12-31 03:37:28 <midnightmagic> err.. explain..?
143 2011-12-31 03:37:33 <luke-jr> I already did.
144 2011-12-31 03:37:38 <luke-jr> unless the law contradicts a higher law, it is just.
145 2011-12-31 03:37:54 <luke-jr> lfm gave an example, if it were to violate an unrepealed constitution
146 2011-12-31 03:38:02 <luke-jr> unfortunately, the USA has no such constitution
147 2011-12-31 03:38:11 <justmoon> luke-jr: church - inventing fairy tales does not give you special rights in the real world. state - nobody can delegate authority that they don't have themselves.
148 2011-12-31 03:38:14 <midnightmagic> the contradiction is not resolved.
149 2011-12-31 03:38:18 <luke-jr> the only constitution it had, was overturned by the "Civil War"
150 2011-12-31 03:38:31 <midnightmagic> who says a constitution is repealed?
151 2011-12-31 03:38:33 <luke-jr> justmoon: nothing fairy tale about it
152 2011-12-31 03:39:06 <midnightmagic> who has the right to make the laws which people must abide by?
153 2011-12-31 03:39:23 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the Church and State both have direct jurisdiction from God
154 2011-12-31 03:39:45 <midnightmagic> what defines a legitimate state? who is legitimate in somalia for example?
155 2011-12-31 03:39:55 <luke-jr> I'm not familiar with Somalia.
156 2011-12-31 03:40:13 <midnightmagic> imagine multiple masses of people who all claim to be legitimate authority
157 2011-12-31 03:40:33 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the first one, which serves the role.
158 2011-12-31 03:40:37 <lfm> in solamia it is might makes right
159 2011-12-31 03:40:57 <lfm> somalia
160 2011-12-31 03:41:15 <midnightmagic> therefore you imply that by might does the syrian government have theright to kill its citizens
161 2011-12-31 03:41:47 <lfm> that is the established wy of it there, like any kingdom or dictatorship
162 2011-12-31 03:41:47 <luke-jr> States have the authority to execute criminals.
163 2011-12-31 03:41:48 <midnightmagic> thereby the contradiction is nit resolved
164 2011-12-31 03:41:49 <justmoon> luke-jr: even if it was true, it does not confer rights over others. if I don't arrive at the same religion as you out of free will, there is no other way you can apply your ethics to me than by force
165 2011-12-31 03:42:38 <luke-jr> justmoon: subjectivism is not a way out
166 2011-12-31 03:42:51 <luke-jr> justmoon: objectively, Catholicism is true and the Catholic Church holds authority.
167 2011-12-31 03:43:05 <midnightmagic> i'm sorry, i do not believe the contradiction is resolved.. it is a moral absurdity.
168 2011-12-31 03:43:20 <luke-jr> all men are subject to the Church, even if they live in disobedience.
169 2011-12-31 03:43:52 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the State does not have authority to make just anything a crime punishable by death-- that authority is restricted to moral evils
170 2011-12-31 03:43:53 <midnightmagic> that is a special pleading
171 2011-12-31 03:44:19 <luke-jr> for example, a government does not have authority to execute someone for using Bitcoin
172 2011-12-31 03:44:46 <midnightmagic> old testament included?
173 2011-12-31 03:44:50 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: what?
174 2011-12-31 03:45:03 <midnightmagic> no, wait, i keep forgetting you are progressive
175 2011-12-31 03:45:07 <luke-jr> &
176 2011-12-31 03:45:36 <midnightmagic> i infer you are saying that the moral authority as taught by the church supercedes state authority
177 2011-12-31 03:45:50 <luke-jr> the Church is the sole authority for teaching morality.
178 2011-12-31 03:46:04 <luke-jr> the State is the authority for civil harmony and protection
179 2011-12-31 03:46:14 <luke-jr> Church teaches, State protects.
180 2011-12-31 03:46:48 <lfm> luke: thats bull. lots of people teach morals without any authority from your church
181 2011-12-31 03:47:05 <midnightmagic> are normal peoplr allowed to make morality judgements on their own that the church hasn't specifically stated?
182 2011-12-31 03:47:10 <justmoon> luke-jr: I'm not arguing subjectivism, I'm merely pointing out that you have no way to convince me of your ethics - if you want me to follow them, you have to use force - people like you have to fight other people like you over whose absolutism is correct. my position is that we have no right to apply our ethics to others other than defending their free will. the reason free will is objective is because it presuppose it when you state your ow
183 2011-12-31 03:47:10 <luke-jr> lfm: lots of people spread confusion and "teach" without authority
184 2011-12-31 03:47:35 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: everyone is expected to apply the Church's teachings to their specific circumstances.
185 2011-12-31 03:47:36 <justmoon> because you* presuppose it
186 2011-12-31 03:47:54 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: in difficult cases, the Church can make authoritative rulings for them
187 2011-12-31 03:48:27 <lfm> the number two rule of your church is like the pope is infallible and no one but catholic fanatics beleive that
188 2011-12-31 03:48:38 <luke-jr> justmoon: I don't presuppose it. I prove it to myself through research.
189 2011-12-31 03:48:38 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: and what are the choices when a person has found a law immoral, to use the term which you insist on defining rather tan the one we defalted to (unjust)
190 2011-12-31 03:49:16 <luke-jr> lfm: the number one rule is the doctrines of the Church, including papal infallibility. someone who denies papal infallibility is not a Catholic
191 2011-12-31 03:49:40 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the higher law must be followed.
192 2011-12-31 03:50:08 <lfm> well 99% of the people who attend catholic church services are not catholics then by your definition
193 2011-12-31 03:50:17 <luke-jr> lfm: you say it.
194 2011-12-31 03:50:29 <rjk2> -dev?
195 2011-12-31 03:50:39 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: now that i undwrstand that you are making a distinction in terminology, it seems as though we are actually saying the same thing.. it would seem to me that civil disobedience is following that hugher law
196 2011-12-31 03:50:41 <luke-jr> lfm: in reality, 99% of the people who attend Catholic churches *do* accept papal infallibility.
197 2011-12-31 03:50:44 <midnightmagic> err..  higher
198 2011-12-31 03:50:58 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: except there is no higher law in the case of Bitcoin.
199 2011-12-31 03:51:10 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the civil authority can ban Bitcoin
200 2011-12-31 03:51:19 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: the only difference being what you and I consider is a higher law. :)
201 2011-12-31 03:51:26 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: when/if that happens, everyone is bound to stop usign Bitcoin
202 2011-12-31 03:51:34 <luke-jr> everyone in that jurisdiction*
203 2011-12-31 03:51:42 <lfm> yes all fanatics think their rules are more important than any one else's
204 2011-12-31 03:51:47 <cjdelisle> everyone who doesn't know right from wrong.
205 2011-12-31 03:51:53 <midnightmagic> i'm glad i can count on you to agree that murder for speech is wrong then :)
206 2011-12-31 03:52:01 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: depends on the speech.
207 2011-12-31 03:52:10 <cjdelisle> That's what this all boils down to, people who don't know right from wrong defer to higher authorities.
208 2011-12-31 03:52:15 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the State does have the authority, and in some cases the duty, to execute heretics.
209 2011-12-31 03:52:21 <cjdelisle> If bitcoin is wrong then you shouldn't use it.
210 2011-12-31 03:52:21 <midnightmagic> syrian blogger speech rwquesting that citizen murders stop
211 2011-12-31 03:52:32 <cjdelisle> If bitcoin is right then the law against it is wrong
212 2011-12-31 03:52:32 <midnightmagic> specifically :)
213 2011-12-31 03:52:43 <cjdelisle> luke-jr: is bitcoin wrong?
214 2011-12-31 03:52:44 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: disobedience is wrong.
215 2011-12-31 03:52:54 <cjdelisle> is bitcoin wrong?
216 2011-12-31 03:53:02 <luke-jr> the State can forbid things that are not inherently wrong.
217 2011-12-31 03:53:19 <cjdelisle> they can but it would be wrong.
218 2011-12-31 03:53:24 <luke-jr> no, it would'nt.
219 2011-12-31 03:53:31 <midnightmagic> cjdelisle: he escapes it by using a different definition of the term disobedience than uou. it sounds like he doesn't fundamentally disagree with us.
220 2011-12-31 03:53:33 <luke-jr> for an example, take eating meat on Fridays.
221 2011-12-31 03:53:49 <luke-jr> there is nothing *inherently* wrong with eating meat on Friday
222 2011-12-31 03:53:51 <cjdelisle> That's just a rule made to troll you :P
223 2011-12-31 03:54:04 <luke-jr> but there is a law forbidding it
224 2011-12-31 03:54:10 <luke-jr> breaking that law is disobedience
225 2011-12-31 03:54:28 <cjdelisle> the law is wrong so it is your duty not to follow it.
226 2011-12-31 03:54:33 <midnightmagic> cjdelisle: the friday meat law?
227 2011-12-31 03:54:36 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: no, there is nothing wrong with the law.
228 2011-12-31 03:54:41 <TuxBlackEdo> i always thought that laws are made because the majority agrees the law must exist.. politicians don't make that call, the people should
229 2011-12-31 03:54:44 <midnightmagic> FML.. awesome
230 2011-12-31 03:54:51 <TuxBlackEdo> isn't this why jury nullification exists
231 2011-12-31 03:54:57 <cjdelisle> /nod
232 2011-12-31 03:55:10 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: States have the authority to make that be their system of law making
233 2011-12-31 03:55:17 <cjdelisle> If something is not wrong and then it's banned, it doesn't "become" wrong.
234 2011-12-31 03:55:33 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: no, but disobedience of the law is wrong
235 2011-12-31 03:55:34 <cjdelisle> If you're afraid of bitcoin being wrong, you shouldn't use it.
236 2011-12-31 03:55:35 <lfm> tuxblackedo the majority only make laws in democracies. the church is not a democracy and sira is not either
237 2011-12-31 03:55:58 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: unless the law is immoral, as you say
238 2011-12-31 03:56:11 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: which banning Bitcoin is not.
239 2011-12-31 03:56:26 <cjdelisle> And what this all boils down to is inability to tell right from wrong. Those who can tell right from wrong need not defer to politicians of clergy to regiment their lives.
240 2011-12-31 03:57:01 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: nobody can tell right from wrong, except by heeding the Church's teachings
241 2011-12-31 03:57:02 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: okay, but you've got to admit you understand what they mean.. we can't all be 100% pedantic or we wouldn't any of us get our point across
242 2011-12-31 03:57:26 <cjdelisle> and inability to tell right from wrong is the legal definition of insanity.
243 2011-12-31 03:57:33 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: no, it isn't.
244 2011-12-31 03:57:48 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: otherwise, all non-Catholics are automatically legally insane.
245 2011-12-31 03:57:50 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: rats seem to be able to tell some rights from wrongs naturally
246 2011-12-31 03:57:53 <justmoon> http://memegenerator.net/instance/12723367
247 2011-12-31 03:58:09 <midnightmagic> rats can laugh too
248 2011-12-31 03:58:52 <cjdelisle> "A person is insane, and is not responsible for criminal conduct if, at the time of such conduct, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, he was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of his acts"
249 2011-12-31 03:59:01 <cjdelisle> http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d029.htm
250 2011-12-31 03:59:01 <justmoon> luke-jr: your position is internally consistent, but so damn arbitary, what gives your church justification that ever other church doesn't have?
251 2011-12-31 03:59:04 <cjdelisle> and there is it
252 2011-12-31 03:59:23 <cjdelisle> inability to tell right from wrong is the legal definition of instanity.
253 2011-12-31 03:59:28 <midnightmagic> justmoon: direct inheritance of god's autnority from jesus i think
254 2011-12-31 03:59:33 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: rats are not humans.
255 2011-12-31 03:59:41 <cjdelisle> And Luke would have us believe that noone on this earth is actually sane.
256 2011-12-31 04:00:08 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: no, but it is evidence that some moral behaviours can be genetically inherited rather than taught
257 2011-12-31 04:00:10 <luke-jr> justmoon: God founded the Catholic Church
258 2011-12-31 04:00:11 <rjk2> if luke ever needs an insanity plea for any reason, this channel has all the logs needed to acquit him
259 2011-12-31 04:00:18 <midnightmagic> lol
260 2011-12-31 04:00:31 <justmoon> luke-jr: he also founded a bunch of other churches that disagree with the cath. church
261 2011-12-31 04:00:38 <lfm> actually a lot of people agree on most moral behaviour without falling back on supernatural reasons
262 2011-12-31 04:00:43 <luke-jr> justmoon: no, He didn't.
263 2011-12-31 04:00:57 <luke-jr> lfm: only because of the Christian origins of modern society.
264 2011-12-31 04:01:09 <luke-jr> as society departs from Christianity further, that falls apart.
265 2011-12-31 04:01:26 <luke-jr> for example, some countries protect homosexuality
266 2011-12-31 04:01:35 <lfm> luke Id say that even BEFORE christ a lot of people would have agreed on most moral behavior
267 2011-12-31 04:01:50 <luke-jr> lfm: clearly not.
268 2011-12-31 04:01:54 <luke-jr> oh, here's a good one:
269 2011-12-31 04:02:11 <lfm> oh, so the romans never had laws about murder?
270 2011-12-31 04:02:16 <lfm> or stealing?
271 2011-12-31 04:02:18 <luke-jr> almost all society thinks the serious crimes of usury/interest and contraception are just fine and dandy.
272 2011-12-31 04:02:19 <midnightmagic> that is historically inaccurate except if you accept that current christianity is truer than christianity in antiquity, or that morality was correct by ancient standards
273 2011-12-31 04:02:30 <luke-jr> lfm: look at the Aztecs, and they weren't even BC
274 2011-12-31 04:02:55 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: morality has never changed, nor any of the Church's teachings.
275 2011-12-31 04:02:59 <lfm> luke usury is marginal. Im talking about basics
276 2011-12-31 04:03:09 <justmoon> luke-jr: do you believe that because there is evidence that the catholic church is the right one? or is there another reason? or do you just believe it based on a circular argument that the church itself says it is the right one?
277 2011-12-31 04:03:23 <luke-jr> lfm: usury is not marginal. everyone seems to do it nowadays.
278 2011-12-31 04:03:41 <luke-jr> justmoon: because I proved it to myself by researching the Church's claims and history.
279 2011-12-31 04:03:48 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: you told me that the church progresses and that is okay because the pope is god's mouth
280 2011-12-31 04:03:56 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no, I didn't.
281 2011-12-31 04:04:03 <lfm> ya by marginal I mean it is not universally agreed to be immoral
282 2011-12-31 04:04:22 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the Church laws change sometimes, but the teachings never do.
283 2011-12-31 04:04:37 <luke-jr> lfm: contraception was before the 1900s.
284 2011-12-31 04:04:39 <justmoon> luke-jr: hmm. I wonder what you found that was so compelling.
285 2011-12-31 04:04:47 <lfm> luke like usary in the form of loan sharking is still illegal
286 2011-12-31 04:04:51 <luke-jr> justmoon: there was no single thing.
287 2011-12-31 04:04:51 <midnightmagic> yeah you did.. you were calling new prinouncements clarifications but theynare historically contradicted
288 2011-12-31 04:05:16 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no, they aren't.
289 2011-12-31 04:05:47 <justmoon> luke-jr: so it was more of a preponderance of the evidence? a judgment call?
290 2011-12-31 04:06:32 <lfm> ya, its up to the individual to judge (unless you accept some authoriy figure as absolute)
291 2011-12-31 04:06:36 <luke-jr> justmoon: a sum of looking into a lot of different cases.
292 2011-12-31 04:07:20 <luke-jr> brb
293 2011-12-31 04:07:24 <justmoon> fair enough, I gotta go eat, thanks for the discussion @all
294 2011-12-31 04:07:26 <lfm> used to be kings had devine rights to make laws
295 2011-12-31 04:07:50 <cjdelisle> they're coming to take me away haha to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time...
296 2011-12-31 04:08:23 <luke-jr> lfm: they still do.
297 2011-12-31 04:08:37 <luke-jr> well, except that there's probably no real monarchies anymore
298 2011-12-31 04:08:40 <midnightmagic> so what are changes in church doctrine supposed to be called? mistakes in our interpretation of the pope's word? :)
299 2011-12-31 04:08:57 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: there are no changes in Church doctrine ever.
300 2011-12-31 04:09:00 <lfm> dictators are the same as kings
301 2011-12-31 04:09:08 <luke-jr> lfm: no.
302 2011-12-31 04:09:32 <lfm> how you think kings got their jobs in the first place?
303 2011-12-31 04:09:50 <luke-jr> lfm: most probably inherited the position
304 2011-12-31 04:10:11 <lfm> thats not the first place, I mean the fiorst king in a line
305 2011-12-31 04:10:34 <luke-jr> lfm: there are 3 possibilities
306 2011-12-31 04:11:05 <lfm> or are you saying korea is now a kingdom protected by devine right now the leader "inherited" his position?
307 2011-12-31 04:11:12 <luke-jr> for money, power, and my favourite: so someone less qualified doesn't get the job
308 2011-12-31 04:11:34 <luke-jr> lfm: sure, AFAIK
309 2011-12-31 04:12:01 <luke-jr> otoh, N Korea might violate too many rights to be legit; not enough info
310 2011-12-31 04:12:36 <lfm> breaking news, korea is approved by the church's devine right of kings, the great leader must not be disobeyed
311 2011-12-31 04:14:24 <luke-jr> lfm: his authority is still limited to that of the State
312 2011-12-31 04:14:37 <luke-jr> and his jurisdiction to the land of N Korea
313 2011-12-31 04:15:56 <luke-jr> and a pope can depose kings ;O)
314 2011-12-31 04:15:58 <luke-jr> ;)
315 2011-12-31 04:15:59 <lfm> ya, his executions of political disidents is ok by you
316 2011-12-31 04:16:27 <luke-jr> if it can be legitimately classified as treason
317 2011-12-31 04:16:49 <lfm> treason is whatever the king sez it is
318 2011-12-31 04:16:54 <luke-jr> not quite.
319 2011-12-31 04:17:52 <lfm> in burma it is treason to say the king is not as handsom as he thinks he is
320 2011-12-31 04:18:23 <lfm> punishable by death
321 2011-12-31 04:19:18 <luke-jr> it is legitimate to punish by death, someone who openly declares the popes to not be infallible on matters of faith and morals (other than pagans)
322 2011-12-31 04:19:56 <lfm> other than pagans?
323 2011-12-31 04:19:59 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: that's not true. what about the christian-jewish reconciliation?
324 2011-12-31 04:20:05 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no such thing
325 2011-12-31 04:20:32 <luke-jr> lfm: pagans are obviously not expected to be speaking Christian doctrine
326 2011-12-31 04:20:56 <luke-jr> lfm: I'm using the more general definition, including atheists and Muslims
327 2011-12-31 04:20:59 <midnightmagic> you denying the Nostra Aetate?
328 2011-12-31 04:21:02 <BlueMatt> whats the latest on op_eval?
329 2011-12-31 04:21:15 <vsrinivas> luke-jr: how about reconciliation with the orthodox church?
330 2011-12-31 04:21:26 <lfm> so protestants are not allowed to question the wisdom of the pope but pagans are? facinating
331 2011-12-31 04:21:37 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: certainly, just as I deny the Ninety-Five Theses
332 2011-12-31 04:21:55 <luke-jr> vsrinivas: the Orthodox schismatics need to reconcile by joining the Church
333 2011-12-31 04:22:02 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: The Nostra Aetate was promulgated by Pope Paul VI..?
334 2011-12-31 04:22:03 <rjk2> BlueMatt: have fun trying to get any real work done, all it is is trolling about church and shit
335 2011-12-31 04:22:04 <luke-jr> lfm: protestantism is heresy
336 2011-12-31 04:22:08 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no, it wasn't.
337 2011-12-31 04:22:17 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: there was no Pope Paul VI
338 2011-12-31 04:22:27 <luke-jr> rjk2: discussing
339 2011-12-31 04:22:32 <midnightmagic> http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html ?
340 2011-12-31 04:22:38 <luke-jr> though if someone has an answer for BlueMatt, we can move to another channel
341 2011-12-31 04:22:49 <BlueMatt> rjk2: its a bitcoin-related channel, I wouldnt expect any different, though I would hope that someone takes a brief break to respond to my question...
342 2011-12-31 04:22:50 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: that's a non-Catholic website.
343 2011-12-31 04:22:57 <BlueMatt> has anything changed since yesterday?
344 2011-12-31 04:23:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Not that I know of.
345 2011-12-31 04:23:06 <vsrinivas> no related commits, anyway.
346 2011-12-31 04:23:16 <BlueMatt> fair enough, then continue your church discussions
347 2011-12-31 04:23:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm currently of the opinion that OP_EVAL is the better solution, but it should be delayed.
348 2011-12-31 04:23:28 <midnightmagic> lol
349 2011-12-31 04:23:34 <lfm> rjk2 did you have some work you wanted to do? Id be happy to change the subject if you got a question or anything
350 2011-12-31 04:23:55 <rjk2> no, but i guess my question was offtopic anyway
351 2011-12-31 04:24:03 <lfm> hehe ok
352 2011-12-31 04:24:04 <midnightmagic> there.. was.. no Pope Paul VI and the vatican website is not catholic?
353 2011-12-31 04:24:11 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: correct.
354 2011-12-31 04:24:26 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: meh, I would like to see sipa's tightened version, but aside from that, meh...
355 2011-12-31 04:24:34 <midnightmagic> wait, which pope are you talking about then?
356 2011-12-31 04:24:40 <midnightmagic> (which is legitimate)?
357 2011-12-31 04:24:41 <lfm> did anyone see that series "the borgias"?
358 2011-12-31 04:24:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I see no reason to tighten it. Just add pubkey extraction.
359 2011-12-31 04:24:55 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the popes of the Catholic Church. there are many.
360 2011-12-31 04:25:23 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: And who's the current one, and what the hell are you calling Catholic?
361 2011-12-31 04:25:31 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: there isn't a current one AFAIK
362 2011-12-31 04:25:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: well the tightened version really means additional review gets much easier, you dont have to try to think of odd corner cases, as it tightens the possibilities of such cases even existing
363 2011-12-31 04:25:41 <lfm> pope luke the xxvi
364 2011-12-31 04:25:48 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the last one to reign from the Vatican (before it was taken over) was Pope Pius XII
365 2011-12-31 04:26:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: meh, I don't like all the restrictions already. :P
366 2011-12-31 04:26:29 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: what term would I be most likely to recognise that I could use to learn more about what you are defining as Catholicism?
367 2011-12-31 04:26:30 <cjdelisle> pope Luke II
368 2011-12-31 04:27:05 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: "Catholicism from 33 AD to 1958 AD"?
369 2011-12-31 04:27:08 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: well sipa's version is not really restricted, but slightly different, in reality you can do anything with sipa's that you can with gavin's
370 2011-12-31 04:27:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: hmm, I must not be up to date
371 2011-12-31 04:27:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so though I can see the argument that you dont like the current scripting restrictions, I cant see why you wouldnt like sipa's over gavin's original version
372 2011-12-31 04:28:02 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: sipa's version is essentially just that in OP_EVAL nothing is passed except the main stack
373 2011-12-31 04:28:16 <BlueMatt> ie the alt_stack and such are all specific to within OP_EVAL
374 2011-12-31 04:28:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that might be superior
375 2011-12-31 04:28:26 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: are you the only one practicing this religion? :-) are there a group of people who think exactly as you do, and do they refer to themselves as something in specific? like pope-repudiators or The Second Advent Catholic Church of man or something?
376 2011-12-31 04:28:27 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: but then again Im pretty sure Im not up-to-date either
377 2011-12-31 04:28:46 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no, there are lots of Catholics.
378 2011-12-31 04:29:20 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: Pope Benedict XV declared that it is not good to use terms other than "Catholic" and "Christian"
379 2011-12-31 04:29:20 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: you can understand my confusion, since people who follow the current "pope" who sits in the Vatican also call themselves Catholics.
380 2011-12-31 04:29:45 <midnightmagic> and yet your beliefs significantly differ from some of theirs.
381 2011-12-31 04:29:47 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: indeed they do. they should stop. :p
382 2011-12-31 04:29:57 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: until 1958, they were called Modernists.
383 2011-12-31 04:30:18 <luke-jr> well, I guess they began calling themselves Catholics before that
384 2011-12-31 04:30:26 <luke-jr> but that's when they managed to convince the secular world of it
385 2011-12-31 04:30:34 <luke-jr> by conquering the Vatican properties
386 2011-12-31 04:31:02 <midnightmagic> you're like this unending room of mirrors, and I keep expecting bruce lee to jump out and punch me in the neck
387 2011-12-31 04:31:07 <luke-jr> O.o
388 2011-12-31 04:31:32 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the Catholic Church is the one which hasn't changed its teachings ever
389 2011-12-31 04:32:19 <vsrinivas> luke-jr: sorry, my understanding is a bit fuzzy; but are you saying john the 23rd wasn't legitimately pope?
390 2011-12-31 04:32:20 <midnightmagic> not in a bad way..  i just can't seem to get a handle on what you believe, so i have trouble finding the edges.
391 2011-12-31 04:32:35 <luke-jr> vsrinivas: correct. there were two false "popes" who took the name John XXIII
392 2011-12-31 04:32:46 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: I have populated various links at http://dashjr.org/catholic/
393 2011-12-31 04:33:19 <midnightmagic> so i ask lots of questions, and i get confused a lot, and bruce lee is going to jump out from behind a mirror and punch me in the neck any moment now
394 2011-12-31 04:33:28 <midnightmagic> :-D
395 2011-12-31 04:33:42 <midnightmagic> ok thanks, i'll read there before bugging you again
396 2011-12-31 04:33:43 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: I can handle some questions at least :P
397 2011-12-31 04:33:53 <luke-jr> there's so much linked there, you'd  never be done reading&
398 2011-12-31 04:34:21 <luke-jr> even I haven't read it all lol
399 2011-12-31 04:35:02 <justmoon> luke-jr: kinda sounds like the pope is only infallible insofar as he complies with your interpretation of what proper traditional church teachings are
400 2011-12-31 04:35:34 <luke-jr> justmoon: popes are infallible. part of the Church's infallible teaching is that a pope who contradicts the Church's teaching is a heretic, and loses office.
401 2011-12-31 04:36:13 <justmoon> luke-jr: and who decides that they contradict the church's teaching? the individual catholic?
402 2011-12-31 04:36:34 <luke-jr> justmoon: contradiction is logical
403 2011-12-31 04:36:48 <vsrinivas> ok. to the 20th century john the 23rd, is your objection that he was invalidly elected? or that he contradicted an infallible teaching?
404 2011-12-31 04:37:24 <luke-jr> vsrinivas: both; also, he was a modernist prior to "election"
405 2011-12-31 04:38:04 <luke-jr> vsrinivas: the Modernists had been trying to pull it off for centuries; it's only by God's grace that it took them until 1958
406 2011-12-31 04:38:56 <midnightmagic> so would that mean that the pope was actually duping everyone until it is discovered he was a heretic, and thus everything he said up until then is discarded?
407 2011-12-31 04:39:31 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: the correct term is antipope. and while many people were duped at first, not everyone was.
408 2011-12-31 04:39:47 <luke-jr> otherwise, yes
409 2011-12-31 04:39:49 <vsrinivas> okay. my memories are a bit fuzzy, but beyond pacem in terris, i don't recall any of john 23'rd's work. what did he do after election that was a problem?
410 2011-12-31 04:40:06 <vsrinivas> was it something in that encyclical itself?
411 2011-12-31 04:40:12 <luke-jr> he didn't do too much problematic; he just wasn't Catholic
412 2011-12-31 04:40:28 <luke-jr> he basically laid the frameworks in place for Paul VI to begin the real damage
413 2011-12-31 04:40:51 <luke-jr> ie, modifying the canon of the Mass which was never to be modified
414 2011-12-31 04:40:54 <luke-jr> eg*
415 2011-12-31 04:41:09 <vsrinivas> that didn't happen till later, no?
416 2011-12-31 04:41:10 <justmoon> everyone, consider for a second: what if luke doesn't believe *any* of this stuff and we are getting massively trolled :D
417 2011-12-31 04:41:21 <justmoon> if that's the case, luke, you sir, are a god among trolls
418 2011-12-31 04:41:25 <luke-jr> John XXIII just inserted the name of St. Joseph, which is itself fine, except that it was the unchangable part :p
419 2011-12-31 04:41:48 <vsrinivas> justmoon: still interesting from a historical perspective.
420 2011-12-31 04:42:00 <luke-jr> pretty sure he issued some heresy in his encyclicals, but that is pale in comparison to his successors
421 2011-12-31 04:42:10 <BlueMatt> whats the flag that specifies a node as an SPV node?
422 2011-12-31 04:42:11 <justmoon> vsrinivas: any good trolling should both delight and enlighten
423 2011-12-31 04:42:17 <BlueMatt> I thought it was fNetworkNode
424 2011-12-31 04:42:24 <BlueMatt> but it doesnt appear to be...
425 2011-12-31 04:43:00 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: better than never ;P
426 2011-12-31 04:43:14 <midnightmagic> lol
427 2011-12-31 04:43:38 <midnightmagic> religions' histories are so complicated..
428 2011-12-31 04:44:06 <vsrinivas> can also apply to many groups;
429 2011-12-31 04:45:15 <midnightmagic> very true.
430 2011-12-31 04:45:24 <justmoon> midnightmagic: imagine a million professional star trek nerds studying trek lore for two thousand years -> catholicism.
431 2011-12-31 04:46:37 <midnightmagic> LOL
432 2011-12-31 04:47:22 <BlueMatt> for future reference its NODE_NETWORK (I originally thought fNodeNetwork, but that doesnt exist...
433 2011-12-31 04:47:24 <BlueMatt> )
434 2011-12-31 04:49:38 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: I was at my cousin's catholic wedding (at a Portuguese church, but Romanian visiting priest) and was asked to do a reading. I initially quoted Princess Bride's Peter Cook performance "mawidge".. I often wonder whether there were any Catholics in that audience who were sad that I am going to hell.
435 2011-12-31 04:50:11 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: even Catholic laymen don't do readings, let alone heathen
436 2011-12-31 04:50:14 <BlueMatt> (and its set to fClient)
437 2011-12-31 04:51:43 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: must've been Modernist then. The Priest was awesome, huge sweeping gestures, robes everywhere. And I'm mistaken, the priest wasn't Romanian. Just retiring.
438 2011-12-31 04:52:16 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: most modernists do the Mass in native tongues
439 2011-12-31 04:52:19 <luke-jr> Catholics only in Latin
440 2011-12-31 04:52:37 <vsrinivas> luke-jr: the non-roman rite folks have used !latin classically, no?
441 2011-12-31 04:52:49 <midnightmagic> They wouldn't let me do my own reading, otherwise I would've picked a latin one, honest.
442 2011-12-31 04:52:56 <luke-jr> vsrinivas: yes, that was a special case made at the time for very old rites
443 2011-12-31 04:53:04 <luke-jr> vsrinivas: I'm not aware of any remaining today, though
444 2011-12-31 04:54:07 <vsrinivas> i believe there are a number still live, the rite of constantinople iirc?
445 2011-12-31 04:55:13 <luke-jr> it's possible, but I don't know of any.
446 2011-12-31 04:55:24 <luke-jr> most of them were glad to go along with the modernists
447 2011-12-31 05:05:22 <midnightmagic> ah, traditionalists..
448 2011-12-31 05:09:04 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: You must get this a lot.. how is the stance reversal on heliocentrism reconciled with church infallibility?
449 2011-12-31 05:09:19 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: what reversal?
450 2011-12-31 05:09:31 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: also, that's physics, not morals nor faith
451 2011-12-31 05:09:39 <luke-jr> the Church doesn't teach physics.
452 2011-12-31 05:09:41 <midnightmagic> it was declared heresy
453 2011-12-31 05:09:44 <luke-jr> no
454 2011-12-31 05:09:55 <luke-jr> Fr. Coppernicus, a Catholic priest, came up with helicentrism
455 2011-12-31 05:10:27 <luke-jr> Galileo took it a step further, and claimed it disproved the Bible
456 2011-12-31 05:10:30 <luke-jr> *that* was the heresy
457 2011-12-31 05:10:32 <copumpkin> in nomine patris, filii, et spriritus sancti
458 2011-12-31 05:11:59 <phungus> *low chanting*
459 2011-12-31 05:13:24 <phungus> I was going to cut and paste some catholic rites in latin but fuck all that brainwashy shit
460 2011-12-31 05:13:36 <phungus> and I can't find any
461 2011-12-31 05:14:40 <luke-jr> phungus: perhaps you should consider the possibility that you're the one who is brainwashed? ;)
462 2011-12-31 05:14:51 <phungus> heha
463 2011-12-31 05:14:55 <phungus> probably so
464 2011-12-31 05:15:01 <phungus> I watched SO much TV
465 2011-12-31 05:15:03 <phungus> omg
466 2011-12-31 05:20:08 <midnightmagic> heliocentrism itself was *declared* contrary to holy scripture (regardless of what the heck galileo said or didn't,) and yet heliocentrism was accepted thereafter.
467 2011-12-31 05:20:56 <midnightmagic> and well before the modernists took over i might add.
468 2011-12-31 05:24:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: main difference between.mine and gavin's is that in mine, the execution of the inner does not modify the execution state of the outer
469 2011-12-31 05:24:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, thought so... isnt that what I said?
470 2011-12-31 05:25:01 <sipa> you said the diffetence is that only the main stack was passed
471 2011-12-31 05:25:10 <sipa> :)
472 2011-12-31 05:25:25 <BlueMatt> oh, whatever...
473 2011-12-31 05:25:45 <BlueMatt> :)
474 2011-12-31 05:25:55 <BlueMatt> sipa: on CBlockStore
475 2011-12-31 05:26:09 <sipa> nice!
476 2011-12-31 05:27:01 <SomeoneWeird> guys im having trouble
477 2011-12-31 05:27:08 <SomeoneWeird> i send a tx to someone about a month ago
478 2011-12-31 05:27:13 <SomeoneWeird> and it's still not gone through
479 2011-12-31 05:27:16 <SomeoneWeird> 0 confirmations
480 2011-12-31 05:27:20 <SomeoneWeird> not in blockexplorer
481 2011-12-31 05:27:21 <BlueMatt> modified client sending?
482 2011-12-31 05:27:26 <SomeoneWeird> nop, stock
483 2011-12-31 05:27:33 <SomeoneWeird> 3.24 still
484 2011-12-31 05:27:52 <SomeoneWeird> i dont have access to the coins either :|
485 2011-12-31 05:28:06 <justmoon> sipa: gavin's pull on OP_EVAL bends over backwards to remove GetSigOpCount - is it impossible to implement GetSigOpCount for OP_EVAL?
486 2011-12-31 05:29:02 <sipa> hmm?
487 2011-12-31 05:29:20 <SomeoneWeird> any idea BlueMatt ?
488 2011-12-31 05:29:28 <justmoon> he passes a new parameter to VerifyScript by reference nSigOps
489 2011-12-31 05:29:33 <BlueMatt> SomeoneWeird: nfc, does it show up on bitcoincharts?
490 2011-12-31 05:29:44 <justmoon> that's used to count the number of sigops performed (for DoS purposes)
491 2011-12-31 05:30:02 <justmoon> i.e. the pre-OP_EVAL code can decide beforehand whether a block or tx exceeds the limit
492 2011-12-31 05:30:10 <justmoon> the new code runs it up to the limit then aborts
493 2011-12-31 05:30:33 <justmoon> the old behavior is obviously better, but I assume gavin removed it because it's not possible to predict how many sigops OP_EVAL will do
494 2011-12-31 05:30:57 <SomeoneWeird> ;;bc,blocks
495 2011-12-31 05:30:58 <gribble> 159929
496 2011-12-31 05:31:00 <sipa> justmoon: right. it is essentially impossible to count ops in advance, as some of them can be in a serialized value, wjich can be modified by the code itself
497 2011-12-31 05:31:21 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: heliocentrism is not accepted period.
498 2011-12-31 05:31:40 <sipa> that is the static analysis argument roconnor was making
499 2011-12-31 05:32:04 <luke-jr> sipa: but that static analysis is not needed
500 2011-12-31 05:32:13 <luke-jr> >
501 2011-12-31 05:32:14 <luke-jr> ?
502 2011-12-31 05:32:36 <justmoon> bitcoinjs verifies transactions in parallel - yes, I can still do the same trick of passing a variable by reference deep into the innards of the script interpreter, but man it seems like it would be a liability down the line
503 2011-12-31 05:32:37 <sipa> it is a nice property to have, imho
504 2011-12-31 05:32:57 <luke-jr> sipa: it's already lost before OP_EVAL
505 2011-12-31 05:33:12 <sipa> how so?
506 2011-12-31 05:34:07 <sipa> justmoon: then argue in favor of analysability
507 2011-12-31 05:34:34 <sipa> most of the talk about it was hypothetical so far
508 2011-12-31 05:36:20 <justmoon> sipa: will do
509 2011-12-31 05:36:53 <justmoon> sipa: would your version be analyzable or only roconnor's?
510 2011-12-31 05:37:33 <sipa> mine is as well (though my second proposal is flawed)
511 2011-12-31 05:38:09 <SomeoneWeird> weird, just redeemed the private key on mtgox and it said its got all my money
512 2011-12-31 05:51:35 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: Here's a more rational explanaton why heliocentrism does not disprove catholicism: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy (skip down to infallibility). Apparently a pope can act fallibly except when he's infallible...?
513 2011-12-31 05:51:50 <midnightmagic> er..  disprove catholic infallibility..
514 2011-12-31 05:52:12 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: a pope's actions are always fallible
515 2011-12-31 05:52:21 <luke-jr> "papal infallibility" does not mean a pope is perfect
516 2011-12-31 05:52:45 <luke-jr> it refers to the Catholic doctrine that the pope's teachings on faith and morals, to the entire Church, are infallible
517 2011-12-31 05:53:02 <luke-jr> also, heliocentrism is not fact.
518 2011-12-31 05:53:24 <sipa> faith and morals are not fact
519 2011-12-31 05:53:53 <midnightmagic> to luke they are. :)
520 2011-12-31 05:53:57 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, they are.
521 2011-12-31 05:54:31 <sipa> good, i will stop discussing it at this point
522 2011-12-31 05:54:47 <copumpkin> sipa: logical equivalent of fix :: (a -> a) -> a
523 2011-12-31 05:54:52 <midnightmagic> i'm just looking for specific examples of doctrinal reversals which would evidence fallibility contrary to catholic infallibility dogma. :)
524 2011-12-31 05:55:08 <midnightmagic> sipa: wisdom :)
525 2011-12-31 05:55:14 <sipa> copumpkin: haha
526 2011-12-31 05:56:13 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: good luck. there aren't any :p
527 2011-12-31 05:56:14 <BlueMatt> wait luke-jr is catholic?
528 2011-12-31 05:56:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: &
529 2011-12-31 05:56:26 <vsrinivas> during the iconclasm/icononikai era?
530 2011-12-31 05:56:29 <luke-jr> you *just* figured that out?
531 2011-12-31 05:56:45 <BlueMatt> everything i saw in the past hour in this chan that didnt have me tagged, Ive ignored
532 2011-12-31 05:56:51 <midnightmagic> Traditionalist Catholic, and he answers questions. :) it's pretty awesome, I haven't ever met one like that before.
533 2011-12-31 05:56:55 <BlueMatt> odd, I wouldnt think luke was catholic... oh well
534 2011-12-31 05:57:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, I'm surprised you didn't know prior to today.
535 2011-12-31 05:57:14 <midnightmagic> sometimes he says some pretty brutal things. :)
536 2011-12-31 05:57:38 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, Ive never heard you discussing religion tbh
537 2011-12-31 05:57:47 <TuxBlackEdo> hehe
538 2011-12-31 05:57:52 <TuxBlackEdo> sorry
539 2011-12-31 05:58:03 <luke-jr> hmm, I suppose it doesn't come up much here.
540 2011-12-31 05:58:50 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: mostly i see it in #eligius
541 2011-12-31 05:59:08 <midnightmagic> some guy jzknight in there trolls luke constantly, i don't know why he puts up with him
542 2011-12-31 06:00:18 <luke-jr> I don't always.
543 2011-12-31 06:00:35 <luke-jr> I mostly ignore him these days, unless there's something that needs correcting/explaining.
544 2011-12-31 06:01:28 <doublec> BlueMatt: you could guess his religious leanings by looking at the blockchain
545 2011-12-31 06:02:03 <BlueMatt> doublec: meaning?
546 2011-12-31 06:02:16 <doublec> BlueMatt: all the latin verses praising god in the blockchain are from his pool
547 2011-12-31 06:02:33 <midnightmagic> Ah! Fascinating... the church itself doesn't maintain a complete list of specific infallible doctrine.. and therefore cannot be challenged.
548 2011-12-31 06:02:44 <BlueMatt> since when does luke add latin verses praising god in the chain?
549 2011-12-31 06:02:52 <copumpkin> lol
550 2011-12-31 06:02:56 <copumpkin> forever :)
551 2011-12-31 06:03:00 <copumpkin> coinbase isn't it?
552 2011-12-31 06:03:03 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: seriously, even if you do want to praise god, in the chain???
553 2011-12-31 06:03:03 <copumpkin> or whatever it's called
554 2011-12-31 06:03:10 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: impossible to write it all
555 2011-12-31 06:03:13 <doublec> copumpkin: yeah I think it was coinbase testing
556 2011-12-31 06:03:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: hey, I had merged-mining code to test, and no NMC code to test it with yet :P
557 2011-12-31 06:03:35 <doublec> BlueMatt: where have you been the past few months :) It's been discussed quite a bit.
558 2011-12-31 06:03:43 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: they don't answer a lot of questions about it either, nor do they identify which is which in advance.
559 2011-12-31 06:03:47 <luke-jr> so I figured prayers can be made into hex merkleroots
560 2011-12-31 06:03:48 <luke-jr> :P
561 2011-12-31 06:04:19 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: hmm?
562 2011-12-31 06:04:43 <BlueMatt> doublec: Ive been at school...
563 2011-12-31 06:05:07 <doublec> BlueMatt: yeah I figured you'd been productive instead of gossiping about the latin in the blockchain like the rest of us :)
564 2011-12-31 06:05:16 <copumpkin> pfft school
565 2011-12-31 06:05:30 <BlueMatt> doublec: who said anything about being productive, I just said I was at school
566 2011-12-31 06:05:34 <doublec> hehe
567 2011-12-31 06:09:36 <midnightmagic> since.. MtGox support eligius, does this mean that the prayers are representative of MtGox' religious views? :-)
568 2011-12-31 06:12:54 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: you enjoy reading into things?
569 2011-12-31 06:13:07 <luke-jr> or just when you know there's nothing to be read into it?
570 2011-12-31 06:17:17 <midnightmagic> first, it is farcical.. second, I enjoy pointing out inferred absurdities which are usually drawn by people who see evidence in the lack of it.
571 2011-12-31 06:17:28 <midnightmagic> :-P
572 2011-12-31 06:34:14 <Diablo-D3> man wtf
573 2011-12-31 06:34:27 <Diablo-D3> my client is stuck on 159682 blocks
574 2011-12-31 06:35:08 <Diablo-D3> I have 75 connections to the rest of the network
575 2011-12-31 06:36:06 <Diablo-D3> now 90
576 2011-12-31 06:40:11 <Diablo-D3> now 121
577 2011-12-31 06:50:07 <cjdelisle> ;;bc,blocks
578 2011-12-31 06:50:08 <gribble> 159934
579 2011-12-31 06:51:18 <cjdelisle> happy 160k (in another 11 hours)
580 2011-12-31 06:51:55 <justmoon> cjdelisle: happy 160k and new year :)
581 2011-12-31 06:52:27 <justmoon> cjdelisle: got any resolutions for the new year / next 10k blocks?
582 2011-12-31 06:57:19 <cjdelisle> work harder on stuff that pays
583 2011-12-31 06:57:57 <justmoon> ah, yeah, very familiar with that one
584 2011-12-31 07:00:43 <cjdelisle> which is more likely to be possible since "my project" is not functioning well enough that I can do an http request which is passed across 3 nodes
585 2011-12-31 07:00:47 <cjdelisle> https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns <-- that
586 2011-12-31 07:00:50 <Joric> someone's really into selling bitcents https://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php
587 2011-12-31 07:01:03 <Joric> why does he do that
588 2011-12-31 07:01:19 <justmoon> cjdelisle: not functioning? how come?
589 2011-12-31 07:01:40 <cjdelisle> s/not/now/
590 2011-12-31 07:01:48 <justmoon> lol
591 2011-12-31 07:01:50 <justmoon> kk
592 2011-12-31 07:01:51 <cjdelisle> it is now functioning o/
593 2011-12-31 07:01:59 <justmoon> congrats
594 2011-12-31 07:02:12 <cjdelisle> yea, lotta work went into that over the past year
595 2011-12-31 07:02:46 <justmoon> it's a beautiful repo
596 2011-12-31 07:03:05 <cjdelisle> in some ways, it's rather amazing it works at all, there are 3 layers of crypto
597 2011-12-31 07:03:19 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
598 2011-12-31 07:03:20 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.3,"low":4.06334,"avg":4.210536216,"vwap":4.207910351,"vol":46389,"last_all":4.24889,"last_local":4.24889,"last":4.24889,"buy":4.24002,"sell":4.24889}}
599 2011-12-31 07:03:22 <cjdelisle> one for the point-to-point, one for the ipv6 headers and one for the content
600 2011-12-31 07:03:39 <cjdelisle> 3 chances to have it desynchronize and go into "can't connect hell"
601 2011-12-31 07:04:15 <justmoon> hmm
602 2011-12-31 07:04:49 <justmoon> how come? it sounded rather elegant and simple when you described it
603 2011-12-31 07:05:56 <cjdelisle> The crypto is done 3 times, once to protect the switches from the world, once to protect the ipv6 headers from being tampered with or dropped by the switches and once to protect the content from being tampered with or read by the routers
604 2011-12-31 07:06:39 <justmoon> security comes at a price then
605 2011-12-31 07:06:47 <Diablo-D3> wtf
606 2011-12-31 07:06:49 <Diablo-D3> 125 connections
607 2011-12-31 07:06:50 <cjdelisle> and 2 out of 3 of those times, there's no authentication token so it's possible for keys to go wrong and you get garbage coming out the other ent
608 2011-12-31 07:06:56 <justmoon> but constantly improving hardware is on your side
609 2011-12-31 07:06:57 <Diablo-D3> still stuck on the same block
610 2011-12-31 07:07:02 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck is wrong with this thing
611 2011-12-31 07:07:16 <cjdelisle> that's the biggest risk
612 2011-12-31 07:07:51 <cjdelisle> a shared secret will get borked and it won't know and won't tear down the connection, just decrypt with the wrong key and spew garbage
613 2011-12-31 07:08:19 <cjdelisle> ofc it resets after no replies for 20 seconds so it eventually corrects itself
614 2011-12-31 07:09:01 <cjdelisle> ^^ no authenticator/checksum is the price you pay for having encryption headers only take 4 bytes
615 2011-12-31 07:09:31 <Diablo-D3> lets upgrade to 0.5.1
616 2011-12-31 07:09:35 <Diablo-D3> lets see if it fixes it
617 2011-12-31 07:11:37 <justmoon> Diablo-D3: what does the log say?
618 2011-12-31 07:15:32 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/GQ0hiYpd
619 2011-12-31 07:15:36 <Diablo-D3> thats the tail of it
620 2011-12-31 07:15:59 <justmoon> yeah your database is borked
621 2011-12-31 07:16:03 <justmoon> missing transactions
622 2011-12-31 07:16:54 <Diablo-D3> so why isnt it downloading them?
623 2011-12-31 07:17:16 <justmoon> when it tries to validate the new blocks, it needs the old transactions they reference
624 2011-12-31 07:17:19 <justmoon> but those are missing
625 2011-12-31 07:17:25 <Diablo-D3> so why isnt it downloading them?
626 2011-12-31 07:17:40 <justmoon> because they are in old blocks that your clients thinks it has already
627 2011-12-31 07:18:04 <justmoon> your database is inconsistent, if I'm right you're gonna have to redownload the chain
628 2011-12-31 07:19:43 <justmoon> actually, forget what I said - I was looking at the wrong messages
629 2011-12-31 07:19:52 <justmoon> the interesting bit is at the top
630 2011-12-31 07:19:57 <Diablo-D3> well I restarted with -rescan -checkblocks
631 2011-12-31 07:20:02 <Diablo-D3> lets see what it does now
632 2011-12-31 07:21:58 <justmoon> so the actual error you have is InvalidChainFound
633 2011-12-31 07:25:03 <justmoon> ok, so it gets the new block, tries to reorganize your chain and fails doing that - you'd have to post a few more lines of your log to figure out what happens during the reorg that makes it fail
634 2011-12-31 07:25:53 <justmoon> but -checkblocks may very well fix it, I'll leave you to it then
635 2011-12-31 07:36:22 <Diablo-D3> lets see
636 2011-12-31 07:36:43 <Diablo-D3> 15 connections, still stuck on that block
637 2011-12-31 07:44:03 <Diablo-D3> Loaded 93446 addresses
638 2011-12-31 07:44:11 <Diablo-D3> ie, every user ever ;)
639 2011-12-31 07:44:43 <Diablo-D3> rescan                75930ms
640 2011-12-31 07:44:56 <Diablo-D3> 80 seconds really isnt that bad
641 2011-12-31 07:45:23 <Diablo-D3> mapBlockIndex.size() = 160072
642 2011-12-31 07:45:45 <Diablo-D3> connects to irc, lots of irc spam
643 2011-12-31 07:46:19 <justmoon> it's downloading the blocks, it's just unable to switch over the active chain (reorganize) from what I can tell
644 2011-12-31 07:46:32 <justmoon> what does it say before InvalidChainFound?
645 2011-12-31 07:46:38 <Diablo-D3> looking
646 2011-12-31 07:47:21 <Diablo-D3> a bunch of add addresses, a bunch of trying connection, a bunch of added time data, a bunch of version message....
647 2011-12-31 07:47:52 <Diablo-D3> askfor tx ab1e7bb020cf6cf2351b   0
648 2011-12-31 07:47:53 <Diablo-D3> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : ab1e7bb020 mapTransactions prev not found 1141c3b989
649 2011-12-31 07:48:15 <Diablo-D3> sending getdata: tx cbdd1e86e36e8b214a1d
650 2011-12-31 07:48:16 <Diablo-D3> disconnecting node 24.159.97.131:8333
651 2011-12-31 07:48:28 <justmoon> AcceptToMemoryPool is just for the unconfirmed transactions, you can ignore that
652 2011-12-31 07:49:15 <Diablo-D3> okay it eventually says REORGANIZE
653 2011-12-31 07:49:29 <Diablo-D3> REORGANIZE
654 2011-12-31 07:49:30 <Diablo-D3> InvalidChainFound: WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct!  You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
655 2011-12-31 07:49:33 <Diablo-D3> ERROR: SetBestChain() : Reorganize failed
656 2011-12-31 07:49:35 <Diablo-D3> ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed
657 2011-12-31 07:49:37 <Diablo-D3> ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
658 2011-12-31 07:49:52 <justmoon> there's your problem
659 2011-12-31 07:50:04 <justmoon> "ConnectInputs() : 2d4c988d68 prev tx already used at (nFile=-262145, nBlockPos=0, nTxPos=0)"
660 2011-12-31 07:50:15 <justmoon> that's not supposed to fail
661 2011-12-31 07:50:22 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how this happened
662 2011-12-31 07:50:39 <justmoon> I guess I'm a developer for the wrong client to tell you more than that :)
663 2011-12-31 07:51:49 <Diablo-D3> welp, time to restore from older index
664 2011-12-31 07:56:05 <BlueMatt> heh, Im debugging the exact same damn error, but Im getting it for completely different reasons...
665 2011-12-31 07:56:16 <BlueMatt> I saw that paste and was like, what wtf was I pasteing to the chan?
666 2011-12-31 07:56:42 <justmoon> BlueMatt: I can top you, I'm getting the same error in a different client for completely different reasons lol
667 2011-12-31 07:56:55 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if someones attacking the network
668 2011-12-31 07:56:57 <BlueMatt> heh, ok I think that won...
669 2011-12-31 07:57:03 <BlueMatt> no, mine is my fault
670 2011-12-31 07:57:07 <BlueMatt> bad coding :)
671 2011-12-31 07:57:10 <Diablo-D3> lol
672 2011-12-31 07:57:10 <justmoon> yeah, mine is my fault too
673 2011-12-31 07:57:17 <Diablo-D3> when I restored to an earlier index
674 2011-12-31 07:57:18 <Diablo-D3> er
675 2011-12-31 07:57:20 <Diablo-D3> *well
676 2011-12-31 07:57:27 <Diablo-D3> so lets see where that puts me
677 2011-12-31 07:57:32 <justmoon> I'm rewriting bitcoinjs' double spend index to make it go fasteeeeeer :)
678 2011-12-31 07:57:52 <justmoon> current status: block chain download in two hours - next goal: 90 minutes
679 2011-12-31 07:58:16 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if 0.5.0 had a bug in it
680 2011-12-31 07:58:51 <Diablo-D3> 150389
681 2011-12-31 07:59:07 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,blocks
682 2011-12-31 07:59:08 <gribble> 159943
683 2011-12-31 07:59:12 <Diablo-D3> heh thats not too bad
684 2011-12-31 07:59:47 <Diablo-D3> 67 days ago
685 2011-12-31 07:59:53 <Diablo-D3> and it seems to be updating
686 2011-12-31 08:29:24 <Diablo-D3> we're now up to 55 days ago
687 2011-12-31 08:30:58 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r06311ce90523 / (26 files in 8 dirs): dialect -> exporter, original_dialect -> satoshi_exporter http://tinyurl.com/7yfrubt
688 2011-12-31 08:40:23 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rb874b2221f54 /src/error.cpp: Error code descriptions. http://tinyurl.com/6osrolm
689 2011-12-31 08:43:25 <Diablo-D3> now 50 days
690 2011-12-31 08:43:35 <Diablo-D3> about 5 days every 14 minutes
691 2011-12-31 08:44:24 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r7c0528c6df7d / (5 files in 5 dirs): async resolve for domain names + iterate/connect all entries (not only try 1st) Needs boost 1.48 http://tinyurl.com/7h5gv39
692 2011-12-31 09:00:33 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rf9b792d1ccc2 /include/bitcoin/Makefile.am: Install blockchain/organizer.hpp into include directory http://tinyurl.com/89hd6gj
693 2011-12-31 09:52:47 <Diablo-D3> now up to 24 days
694 2011-12-31 10:35:41 <Diablo-D3> 9 days left
695 2011-12-31 10:36:16 <Diablo-D3> 159682 is what I have to pass
696 2011-12-31 10:44:20 <kinlo> ?
697 2011-12-31 10:49:36 <CIA-100> bips: etotheipi master * r0a1cd78 / bip-0010.md : Updated header to be consistent with other BIPs - http://git.io/1Gmznw https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/0a1cd78d080cb479323b4c28e6f27a7eef6a7414
698 2011-12-31 11:10:35 <CIA-100> bips: genjix master * r4b11618 / (bip-0010.md bip-0014.md bip-0015.md): Formatted BIP to have consistent styling. - http://git.io/JM7eTQ https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/4b116185bdebfa875ac0df249d8437010d913c12
699 2011-12-31 11:55:22 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r36d262335a40 /include/bitcoin/data_helpers.hpp: Python-like range function: iterable range(iterable, start_offset, end_offset) http://tinyurl.com/7qmd6dy
700 2011-12-31 12:28:06 <Mqrius> Am I the only one for whom bitspinner occasionally crashes?
701 2011-12-31 13:02:47 <Runnigan> Hi, when I try to open bitcoind.exe, I get a message saying I need to create a bitcoin.conf file
702 2011-12-31 13:03:00 <Runnigan> I've done that but it still doesn't work
703 2011-12-31 13:03:25 <Runnigan> are there any guides on how to create a config file, and/or how to run bitcoind from command prompt?
704 2011-12-31 13:03:50 <lfm> you have to put it in the config dir
705 2011-12-31 13:04:26 <Runnigan> C:UsersNameAppDataRoamingBitcoin right?
706 2011-12-31 13:05:04 <lfm> not sure about windows myself but that looks like it
707 2011-12-31 13:05:38 <Runnigan> in the config file, I only have rpcuser=name and rpcpassword=password, and nothing else
708 2011-12-31 13:05:44 <lfm> where Name is your login name?
709 2011-12-31 13:06:00 <Runnigan> Name is the username
710 2011-12-31 13:06:09 <lfm> ok
711 2011-12-31 13:08:12 <lfm> ya that checks out on this system (mswin7)
712 2011-12-31 13:08:50 <lfm> but bitcoin created it for me here Im quite sure. i never needed to make it myself
713 2011-12-31 13:09:57 <Runnigan> Is there any other way to use testnet other than using the bitcoind? because that's my real goal
714 2011-12-31 13:10:51 <lfm> ya you should be able to say tesnet=true on command line or in config file
715 2011-12-31 13:12:40 <lfm> or just -testnet
716 2011-12-31 13:14:39 <Runnigan> so I need to get bitcoind running
717 2011-12-31 13:15:02 <lfm> -testnet should work with the gui too i think
718 2011-12-31 13:17:33 <Runnigan> oh really? Ok. Sorry for all these questions: which directory would I need to go to through command line to change bitcoin settings?
719 2011-12-31 13:18:57 <lfm> command line args are put in a properties of a startup icon the way I do it
720 2011-12-31 13:21:10 <lfm> i have never tried testnet on mswin tho. only on linux
721 2011-12-31 13:22:47 <lfm> you dont need to run a command line window to use command line args you know
722 2011-12-31 13:23:49 <Runnigan> oh I see
723 2011-12-31 13:23:55 <Runnigan> ok I'm trying to figure out how to do it
724 2011-12-31 13:24:52 <lfm> application properties shortcut target, add the args after the exe file name
725 2011-12-31 13:27:39 <Runnigan> got it!
726 2011-12-31 13:27:49 <lfm> yay
727 2011-12-31 13:28:45 <Runnigan> thanks a lot
728 2011-12-31 13:32:00 <Runnigan> Farewell
729 2011-12-31 13:49:42 <CIA-100> bips: genjix master * rbdb707e / bip-0010.md : Unindent BIP header to 2 spaces. - http://git.io/FnixlQ https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/bdb707e831b4e08196d1993b3d6e432b732b8fae
730 2011-12-31 14:25:12 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rc28af582eab2 /include/bitcoin/blockchain/ (bdb_blockchain.hpp blockchain.hpp postgresql_blockchain.hpp): non-copyable blockchain services. http://tinyurl.com/7pwsond
731 2011-12-31 14:25:13 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r070b7658048f / (28 files in 10 dirs): I am a style pedant. http://tinyurl.com/79ubrt7
732 2011-12-31 14:48:10 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r14140a8c7e9a / (28 files in 8 dirs): dialect -> exporter, original_dialect -> satoshi_exporter http://tinyurl.com/7kw3gcu
733 2011-12-31 15:05:14 <CIA-100> bitcoin: jedi95 * raf1f8af2b0dc Phoenix-Miner/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Add rollntime support to RPC and MMP backends. (Not supported by the miner core ... http://tinyurl.com/7wp3yb9
734 2011-12-31 15:22:59 <[Tycho]> Was the best chain selection algorithm changed since 0.3 or not ?
735 2011-12-31 15:23:05 <sipa> no
736 2011-12-31 15:25:34 <sipa> sum of 2^256/(target+1)
737 2011-12-31 15:25:39 <sipa> for all blocks in the chain
738 2011-12-31 15:40:14 <[Tycho]> So the chain with hardest target always wins ?
739 2011-12-31 15:41:01 <sipa> with the highest sum of inverses of targets wins
740 2011-12-31 15:56:00 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: Why did you think it was changed?
741 2011-12-31 15:56:31 <gmaxwell> (changing it in almost any way would have an extreme risk of fragmenting the network)
742 2011-12-31 15:57:41 <[Tycho]> Just asked to be sure.
743 2011-12-31 15:59:43 <CIA-100> bips: etotheipi master * rb83fd76 / bip-0015.md : Merge branch 'master' of github.com:genjix/bips - http://git.io/Q2cxmA https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/b83fd76df5429479fdc7943f98fc9868a60f22c2
744 2011-12-31 16:47:00 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r67378deb9059 / (88 files in 14 dirs): util -> utility (like boost and STD libraries do) http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/libbitcoin.git/commitdiff/67378deb905957f73131ba1668463cfcc10be71e
745 2011-12-31 16:47:31 <[Tycho]> What is that "alert" system ?
746 2011-12-31 16:48:50 <vsrinivas> [Tycho]: the network can relay signed 'alert' messages; they are displayed by all clients.
747 2011-12-31 16:49:06 <[Tycho]> starting from which version ?
748 2011-12-31 16:49:18 <vsrinivas> early in the 0.3era i think?
749 2011-12-31 16:49:38 <vsrinivas> some versions disable functionality on receiving an alert;
750 2011-12-31 16:49:58 <[Tycho]> Don't remember seeing anything like this in my version.
751 2011-12-31 16:51:09 <vsrinivas> appeared in 0.3.11, 8/2010.
752 2011-12-31 16:54:13 <vsrinivas> what is your version?
753 2011-12-31 16:54:14 <roconnor> justmoon: It is an uphill battle to fight OP_EVAL.  But having people like you against it will really help.
754 2011-12-31 16:54:44 <roconnor> justmoon: IIUC you and I are the only ones to reimplement the scripting engine.
755 2011-12-31 16:54:46 <[Tycho]> vsrinivas: somewhere near that.
756 2011-12-31 16:55:20 <vsrinivas> ok. look for 'CAlert' or in the code that matches on 'strCommand' for messages.
757 2011-12-31 16:59:01 <SomeoneWeirdzzzz> wtf IS OP_EVAL?
758 2011-12-31 16:59:26 <sipa> read BIP 0012
759 2011-12-31 17:17:18 <[Tycho]> Yes, found it.
760 2011-12-31 17:18:25 <justmoon> sipa: gavin talks about a 200 ops limit - do you know where that comes from?
761 2011-12-31 17:21:18 <justmoon> happy 160k everyone btw!
762 2011-12-31 17:25:17 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r26378a6358f4 /src/network/channel.cpp: BUGFIX: on connection error, trying to close an already closed socket. http://tinyurl.com/8xlddfz
763 2011-12-31 17:44:39 <upb> Bruce Wagner call6465800022@gmail.com to bitcoincard
764 2011-12-31 17:44:42 <upb> ahahhha wtf :D
765 2011-12-31 17:45:17 <phantomcircuit> justmoon, fyi hash lookups are not O(1) except in theory and for very small datasets
766 2011-12-31 17:47:55 <justmoon> phantomcircuit: so how come google gives me a result in 50 ms
767 2011-12-31 17:48:34 <phantomcircuit> justmoon, massively massively parallel lookups + caching
768 2011-12-31 17:48:56 <phantomcircuit> a hash lookup is only O(1) if it's in the cpu cache
769 2011-12-31 17:49:43 <phantomcircuit> as soon as your dataset is large enough to need actual memory requests you're looking at all kinds of additional time
770 2011-12-31 17:49:55 <phantomcircuit> but for 99% of stuff it's low enough overhead to not happen
771 2011-12-31 17:50:00 <justmoon> well yeah, I've said just that in my comment
772 2011-12-31 17:50:06 <phantomcircuit> just being nit-picky
773 2011-12-31 17:50:26 <phantomcircuit> oh
774 2011-12-31 17:50:28 <phantomcircuit> i missed that
775 2011-12-31 17:50:34 <justmoon> every time you get into the next category, it gets slower - i.e. when it no longer fits in memory, when it no longer fits on a single machine etc.
776 2011-12-31 17:50:45 <justmoon> no problem :)
777 2011-12-31 17:50:54 <justmoon> I kinda have the same problem right now ^^
778 2011-12-31 17:51:04 <phantomcircuit> lol
779 2011-12-31 17:51:13 <phantomcircuit> i have most of a bitcoin vps system setup
780 2011-12-31 17:51:14 <phantomcircuit> heh
781 2011-12-31 18:05:13 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r36f5a355e896 / (10 files in 3 dirs): Consolidated network/types.hpp into types.hpp http://tinyurl.com/7ulgar9
782 2011-12-31 20:41:06 <CIA-100> bips: etotheipi master * re89a0b4 / bip-0010.md : Updated formatting - http://git.io/rT_ndA https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/e89a0b4c4bbee4496be3e6a7bf7c48b53464801f
783 2011-12-31 20:41:07 <CIA-100> bips: etotheipi master * r6c1fb17 / (bip-0010.md bip-0014.md bip-0015.md): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:genjix/bips - http://git.io/0frNAA https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/6c1fb17e1ea4f932da5602bc4876f7c65f329a6a
784 2011-12-31 20:55:14 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r1009e11f47cf / (9 files in 6 dirs): Support for BIP 0014 (User Agent): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0014 http://tinyurl.com/7wv7mc9
785 2011-12-31 20:55:15 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r12f0dbb4985c /src/network/handshake.cpp: User Agent: "/libbitcoin:0.1a/" http://tinyurl.com/7swca5q
786 2011-12-31 21:30:10 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rc0775734fd16 cgminer/main.c: Again do not attempt to restart a hung device with the every minute attempted restart. http://tinyurl.com/757d63f
787 2011-12-31 21:30:12 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r40ea56ee6e5d cgminer/main.c: Continue attempting to restart every minute whether a GPU is considered sick or dead. http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/cpuminer/cgminer.git/commitdiff/40ea56ee6e5dfe4502b0b8e90e429259cf6f760e
788 2011-12-31 22:30:34 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r58c80fc69993 / (7 files in 5 dirs): handshake class to encapsulate handshake protocol with a template version message and all the intracies involved there. http://tinyurl.com/85howu4