1 2012-02-28 04:35:23 <splatster> Umm: One of my TX has the status "Status: 0/offline?, has not been successfully broadcast yet"
  2 2012-02-28 04:35:55 <BlueMatt> either: a. you dont have any connections to valid nodes or b. nodes are rejecting your tx
  3 2012-02-28 04:36:02 <BlueMatt> s/rejecting/dont want/
  4 2012-02-28 04:36:15 <splatster> :/
  5 2012-02-28 04:36:18 <splatster> uh oh
  6 2012-02-28 04:37:03 <BlueMatt> or c. you have only waited like 10 seconds since you made the tx
  7 2012-02-28 04:37:10 <splatster> lol
  8 2012-02-28 04:37:14 <splatster> no that;s not the case
  9 2012-02-28 04:37:48 <splatster> Should I try restarting the client?
 10 2012-02-28 04:38:08 <BlueMatt> yea
 11 2012-02-28 04:38:18 <splatster> ok
 12 2012-02-28 04:43:11 <splatster> How often does Bitcoin-Qt rebroadcast TXs?
 13 2012-02-28 04:44:39 <BlueMatt> pretty rarely for your own txes (to maintain some level of anonymity)
 14 2012-02-28 04:45:16 <splatster> Once every hour?
 15 2012-02-28 04:45:35 <BlueMatt> Id have to look it up
 16 2012-02-28 04:48:45 <BlueMatt> http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/28/ibm-quantum-computing/ <-- uhhhhh
 17 2012-02-28 04:48:58 <BlueMatt> start the new algorithm coding process...
 18 2012-02-28 04:50:15 <nanotube> hehe
 19 2012-02-28 04:50:22 <BlueMatt> ;)
 20 2012-02-28 04:51:59 <BlueMatt> splatster: I dont feel like looking up more, but at most somewhere between 5-30 minutes
 21 2012-02-28 04:52:49 <splatster> What file would you expect it to be in in the git repo?
 22 2012-02-28 04:53:14 <BlueMatt> I grepped wallet.cpp, but dont feel like looking up what code calls the Resend functions in there...
 23 2012-02-28 04:53:29 <BlueMatt> (and when it comes to bitcoin, that probably means i missed some major parts)
 24 2012-02-28 04:54:28 <nanotube> last i recall, something on the order of 30min
 25 2012-02-28 04:54:35 <splatster> ok thanks
 26 2012-02-28 04:54:39 <nanotube> with some randomness thrown in
 27 2012-02-28 04:54:47 <nanotube> so wait a half hour and see.
 28 2012-02-28 04:58:31 <splatster> grep is in the dictionary!
 29 2012-02-28 04:58:38 <splatster> Holy shit!
 30 2012-02-28 04:59:05 <splatster> Sorry for the copy and paste:
 31 2012-02-28 04:59:06 <splatster> grep |grep|Computing
 32 2012-02-28 04:59:07 <splatster> ORIGIN from the initial letters of g lobal(ly) search r egular e xpression p rint.
 33 2012-02-28 05:00:06 <BlueMatt> damn
 34 2012-02-28 05:00:10 <BlueMatt> thats awsome
 35 2012-02-28 05:00:17 <BlueMatt> awesome*
 36 2012-02-28 05:00:24 <splatster> Google is in the dictionary, too
 37 2012-02-28 05:00:44 <BlueMatt> that one is a bit more commonly used though
 38 2012-02-28 05:00:59 <BlueMatt> so now I can say grep in everyday conversation and expect people to understand what I mean?
 39 2012-02-28 05:02:20 <Graet> yes
 40 2012-02-28 05:02:43 <Graet> but be prepared to carry a dictionary or be dissapointed ;)
 41 2012-02-28 05:03:39 <BlueMatt> :(
 42 2012-02-28 05:04:06 <nanotube> hehe well, if you have a smartphone, you have a dictionary. :)
 43 2012-02-28 05:04:14 <splatster> Graet: Why carry a dictionary when you have a martphone?
 44 2012-02-28 05:04:19 <splatster> damn
 45 2012-02-28 05:04:33 <splatster> I was typing with one hand
 46 2012-02-28 05:04:38 <nanotube> splatster: lol
 47 2012-02-28 05:04:50 <nanotube> that explains the missing 's' :)
 48 2012-02-28 05:04:57 <splatster> Not only was I slow, but I forgot to type the s
 49 2012-02-28 05:05:04 <Graet> w2ell you are carying it if its in your smartphone - and someone told me the other day "not everyone has a smartphone" i was quite shocked!
 50 2012-02-28 05:05:04 <nanotube> and you're still slow. :P
 51 2012-02-28 05:05:25 <nanotube> Graet: heh, i am an example of one of those shocking beasts who has no smartphone.
 52 2012-02-28 05:05:30 <Graet> hehe
 53 2012-02-28 05:05:30 <splatster> My right hand was thinking, "oh, Mr. Left Hand over there will get that letter 's' for me!"
 54 2012-02-28 05:05:33 <Graet> see :D
 55 2012-02-28 05:05:36 <nanotube> :)
 56 2012-02-28 05:05:39 <BlueMatt> nanotube: you should be ashamed of yourself
 57 2012-02-28 05:06:01 <splatster> nanotube: WHAAAAA?
 58 2012-02-28 05:06:16 <nanotube> BlueMatt: http://mylittlefacewhen.com/f/1553/
 59 2012-02-28 05:06:31 <BlueMatt> ???
 60 2012-02-28 05:06:36 <BlueMatt> wtf?
 61 2012-02-28 05:06:42 <copumpkin> oh crap, nanotube caught the brony bug
 62 2012-02-28 05:06:49 <copumpkin> we need fire
 63 2012-02-28 05:06:51 <nanotube> it is a picture of a pony which hung its head in shame, BlueMatt :)
 64 2012-02-28 05:06:57 <Graet> anyway my point wasa BlueMatt can "expect" ppl to know, but he should be prepared for dissapointment ;)
 65 2012-02-28 05:07:00 <BlueMatt> nanotube: no, I got the reference, but...uh wtf?
 66 2012-02-28 05:07:22 <nanotube> BlueMatt: lol i couldn't resist. rawrmage kept posting those in otc. :)
 67 2012-02-28 05:07:24 <BlueMatt> what is it with people and random missing/additional letters tonight?
 68 2012-02-28 05:07:28 <splatster> nanotube: http://youtu.be/yqyixwqiCag
 69 2012-02-28 05:07:36 <nanotube> splatster: :D
 70 2012-02-28 05:07:42 <BlueMatt> splatster: yep, thats me
 71 2012-02-28 05:07:45 <splatster> Or this http://youtu.be/WEtRoZ5FWNc
 72 2012-02-28 05:07:56 <Graet> 2pm and i need to find a typing tutor that will accept bitcoins :/
 73 2012-02-28 05:07:57 <splatster> The second one is better
 74 2012-02-28 05:08:00 <nanotube> lol
 75 2012-02-28 05:08:01 <BlueMatt> /nod
 76 2012-02-28 05:08:17 <BlueMatt> http://youtu.be/d-NYj03wOYA
 77 2012-02-28 05:08:22 <BlueMatt> there are literally thousands of those
 78 2012-02-28 05:08:44 <nanotube> Graet: haha as you can see, i'm shocking not only in my lack of smartphone, but also in my sudden use of ponies. :)
 79 2012-02-28 05:09:30 <mod6> Those IBM vids of Quantum Computing research they are doing looks pretty signifigant.
 80 2012-02-28 05:09:48 <BlueMatt> Graet: shame, there are so many great viruses you're missing out on...
 81 2012-02-28 05:10:06 <nanotube> so... how much complexity does sha256 lose in the face of that qc?
 82 2012-02-28 05:10:37 <mod6> heh.
 83 2012-02-28 05:10:41 <BlueMatt> does it matter? ecc-dss is dead
 84 2012-02-28 05:10:55 <nanotube> ah
 85 2012-02-28 05:11:06 <nanotube> is there any pk crypto that isn't ?
 86 2012-02-28 05:11:21 <Graet> LOL BlueMatt - also why my irc is on linux laptop, ;)
 87 2012-02-28 05:11:47 <Graet> mm gtg do stuff l8rs guys :)
 88 2012-02-28 05:11:57 <nanotube> cheers Graet
 89 2012-02-28 05:11:59 <splatster> Anyone I know when their computer goes awry: http://youtu.be/1Isjgc0oX0s
 90 2012-02-28 05:12:09 <BlueMatt> Graet: well then there are so many look-like-windows-virus-popups-that-instruct-you-to-download-a-trojan-to-clean-your-computer links that you are missing out on...
 91 2012-02-28 05:12:49 <Graet> lol
 92 2012-02-28 05:12:51 <Graet> bai
 93 2012-02-28 05:12:54 <nanotube> heh
 94 2012-02-28 05:13:24 <BlueMatt> nanotube: not sure, but it cant depend on prime factorization (which so much does...)
 95 2012-02-28 05:13:29 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm
 96 2012-02-28 05:13:51 <BlueMatt> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography
 97 2012-02-28 05:14:31 <BlueMatt> also, funny that if you google sha2 quantum computing, bitcoin is all over the place
 98 2012-02-28 05:14:37 <mod6> Shor's algorithm will defeat all factoring based crypto-systems when the qc is realized.  crypto-systems will have to either be based upon other problems that would be hard for a qc to solve, or employ qc crypto systems.
 99 2012-02-28 05:15:16 <BlueMatt> nanotube: random quote: "Code breaking quantum computers using techniques derived from Lov Grover's quantum algorithm would reduce this security in bits as approximately the length of the hash digest divided by 3. So SHA-256 would be only 85 bits secure against a quantum computing attack.  SHA-160 would not be considered secure against code breaking quantum computers."
100 2012-02-28 05:15:34 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: please don't spread hype.
101 2012-02-28 05:15:37 <BlueMatt> nfc how accurate that is...
102 2012-02-28 05:15:47 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: it was originally a joke, but...
103 2012-02-28 05:16:22 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it's unhelpful because the media frequently spreads complete misinformation in the subject area.
104 2012-02-28 05:16:31 <BlueMatt> /nod
105 2012-02-28 05:17:25 <BlueMatt> also, bitcoin is the least of our worries if a capable quantum computer is built, the next day there will be infinite copies of paypal/your local bank's private keys available on the internet for all us mitm'ers to have fun with ;)
106 2012-02-28 05:21:23 <nanotube> BlueMatt: well, arguably, that'll happen the next day after someone other than the researchers acquires access to it. and can program it. so... we can all withdraw our money from the banks long before then. :)
107 2012-02-28 05:21:40 <BlueMatt> well, yea
108 2012-02-28 05:22:16 <phrontist> if the advent of quantum computing isn't welcome to you, your priorities are all out of whack :-)
109 2012-02-28 05:22:35 <nanotube> hehe
110 2012-02-28 05:22:59 <BlueMatt> dont think anyone said that, but it does throw a wrench in all the work that has been done on public-key crypto systems and general security on the internet over the ages...
111 2012-02-28 05:23:09 <phrontist> sure
112 2012-02-28 05:23:10 <gmaxwell> No, it doesn't.
113 2012-02-28 05:23:23 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: doesnt make it impossible, just throws a wrench in it
114 2012-02-28 05:23:29 <nanotube> yea, just as the horseless carriage threw a wrench into the horsed carriage. ;)
115 2012-02-28 05:23:33 <copumpkin> depends on the type of crypto
116 2012-02-28 05:23:39 <BlueMatt> exactly
117 2012-02-28 05:23:47 <nanotube> and the textile workers threw a sabot into the automated loom
118 2012-02-28 05:23:51 <BlueMatt> nanotube: and p2p threw a wrench in media distribution...
119 2012-02-28 05:23:51 <gmaxwell> "we _actually_ have something capable of being called a quantum computer" isn't even remotely close to saying "we have something that could crack modern asymmetric cryptosystems"
120 2012-02-28 05:23:58 <copumpkin> oh man, a sabot
121 2012-02-28 05:23:59 <nanotube> </vague recollection of the original sabotage> :)
122 2012-02-28 05:24:06 <nanotube> BlueMatt: right :)
123 2012-02-28 05:24:26 <nanotube> one wonders why we say 'throw a wrench in' as opposed to 'throw a sabot in'
124 2012-02-28 05:24:27 <nanotube> hehe
125 2012-02-28 05:24:27 <phrontist> any new massively parallel computation mechanism would be disruptive, though
126 2012-02-28 05:24:32 <phrontist> DNA wang tiles
127 2012-02-28 05:24:38 <phrontist> or whatever
128 2012-02-28 05:24:52 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: at no point did anyone say we were close to making a computationally-capable quantum computer at scale
129 2012-02-28 05:24:56 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: e.g. for the modified Shor's algorithm for the DLP requires something on the order of 4k qbits, and 2^32 operations/gates, and thats without any error correction.
130 2012-02-28 05:25:24 <BlueMatt> just computationally-capable for like 1 qbit...
131 2012-02-28 05:25:55 <gmaxwell> If such a device is even physically possible is not even known for sure (e.g. vacuum noise could limit coherence scope/time).
132 2012-02-28 05:26:58 <gmaxwell> And such people start to actually scale up devices, we already have alternative cryptosystems which are fine.
133 2012-02-28 05:27:10 <BlueMatt> yep
134 2012-02-28 05:29:37 <phrontist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_tiles
135 2012-02-28 05:29:39 <phrontist> so much cooler
136 2012-02-28 05:30:39 <nanotube> yes, i do have a feeling that you've mentioned these details before, gmaxwell :) not that they don't bear repeating. ;)
137 2012-02-28 05:51:36 <splatster> Quantum Computers = Future Mining Rigs!
138 2012-02-28 05:53:09 <copumpkin> I doubt it
139 2012-02-28 05:53:16 <splatster> shhhh
140 2012-02-28 05:53:26 <splatster> Don't blow my buzz.
141 2012-02-28 06:16:18 <devrandom> mmm... wang tiles
142 2012-02-28 10:11:46 <iddo> sipa: ok, i'm just wondering if there are specific useful scenarios for this that i'm missing
143 2012-02-28 10:12:02 <iddo> oops pressed uparrow by mistake
144 2012-02-28 11:01:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa reopened issue 881 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/881> || dooglus opened issue 909 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/909>
145 2012-02-28 11:37:59 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 910 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/910>
146 2012-02-28 15:07:16 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: krishKM reopened issue 881 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/881>
147 2012-02-28 18:44:11 <theymos> Is the duplicate coinbase plan to prohibit duplicate coinbase hashes now and require block numbers in coinbases later, was "numbers in coinbases" part abandoned?
148 2012-02-28 18:44:41 <theymos> s/later, was/later, or was/
149 2012-02-28 18:51:08 <gavinandresen> theymos:  I think the plan aught to be "Get 50+% of the mining pools to agree to implement the quick fix ASAP.  And take our time rolling out the block number in the coinbase change."
150 2012-02-28 18:51:32 <gavinandresen> Whether "take our time" means starting with the 0.6 or 0.7 release I don't really care, as long as sipa's fix is in place quickly.
151 2012-02-28 18:53:41 <theymos> OK. Seems reasonable. I was just wondering whether the block number solution had been totally abandoned -- I like that solution better for the long-term.
152 2012-02-28 20:02:36 <gavinandresen> Quiet... too quiet....
153 2012-02-28 20:02:45 <sipa> Be careful, it's a trap!
154 2012-02-28 20:03:13 <gavinandresen> I KNEW I shouldn't have responded to that FormSpring question I got about the CIA
155 2012-02-28 20:04:11 <imsaguy2> The "What is your private key?" question?
156 2012-02-28 20:10:40 <sipa> FormSpring?
157 2012-02-28 20:11:32 <imsaguy2> formspring.me
158 2012-02-28 20:11:45 <sipa> hmm, some social network
159 2012-02-28 20:11:48 <imsaguy2> you can ask questions (anonymously if you want) of people and they answer them.
160 2012-02-28 20:11:58 <imsaguy2> ties in with all the social media junk
161 2012-02-28 20:12:31 <sipa> anyway; anyone here for discussing things?
162 2012-02-28 20:12:37 <sipa> it seems very quiet indeed
163 2012-02-28 20:18:42 <gavinandresen> I don't know nuthin about IRC, will I make things better or worse if I completely disconnect then reconnect?
164 2012-02-28 20:19:20 <coingenuity> gavinandresen: if you're OK right now, just let it resolve itself
165 2012-02-28 20:19:30 <coingenuity> freenode was not happy when i restarted my bnc a minute ago ;)
166 2012-02-28 20:19:30 <gavinandresen> coingenuity: thanks
167 2012-02-28 20:19:37 <sipa> At best, you end up on the same side as you are now :)
168 2012-02-28 20:19:56 <coingenuity> if you do get disconnected /msg nickserv ghost gavinandresen *your password* and it will kill the old socket
169 2012-02-28 20:24:12 <gavinandresen> sipa:  while we're waiting for IRC to get sane... I was doing some light research on alternatives to berkeley db. sqlite3 looks interesting, although I'm not sure we'd see any fewer "database corrupted" problems with it  (see, e.g. http://www.sqlite.org/lockingv3.html#how_to_corrupt )
170 2012-02-28 20:25:11 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: if it goes towards something sql-based, it might be nice to be able to let people supply their own backends. then scaling-up would become a lot easier for db types who want to run RAC badassery
171 2012-02-28 20:25:40 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: By the by, is there an issue for the coinbase fix you were discussing earlier?
172 2012-02-28 20:25:45 <gavinandresen> midnightmagic: sure.  I'm just looking for a better-for-desktop-users solution
173 2012-02-28 20:25:49 <midnightmagic> apparently I'm still github clueless..
174 2012-02-28 20:25:58 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: awesome.
175 2012-02-28 20:26:23 <gavinandresen> midnightmagic: is there an issue:  good question, there aught to be
176 2012-02-28 20:26:30 <sipa> There isn't.
177 2012-02-28 20:27:24 <midnightmagic> sipa, gavinandresen, oh, that would explain why I can't find it then. how about just the patch? name of the branch with sipa's fix?
178 2012-02-28 20:28:09 <sipa> midnightmagic: nooverwritetx
179 2012-02-28 20:28:21 <sipa> it's referenced in the BIP
180 2012-02-28 20:28:46 <midnightmagic> sipa: okay
181 2012-02-28 20:29:32 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ping?
182 2012-02-28 20:30:34 <midnightmagic> sipa: In the event of a reorg is the only time when a block containing a dupe txn would be accepted by clients..?
183 2012-02-28 20:30:55 <sipa> midnightmagic: parse error
184 2012-02-28 20:31:32 <midnightmagic> sipa: Under what conditions would the problem that nooverwritetx solves be exploitable?
185 2012-02-28 20:32:26 <midnightmagic> sipa: Oh, nevermind, I'm looking at the commit. This is the old dupe coinbase issue.
186 2012-02-28 20:32:48 <sipa> It's more than that, but the root of the problem is a duplicate coinbase, yes.